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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>, Harish Sitaraman <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, Kapil Arora <kapilaro@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:08:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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I have reviewed the draft and believe it is ready for WG adoption considera=
tion.

I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be speci=
fied via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order TLV" and mul=
tiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).

Thanks.
Jeffrey
      _____________________________________________
      From: Ross Callon
      Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM
      To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); jeremy.wh=
ittaker@verizon.com
      Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-=
chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
      Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simpl=
e-02


      Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;

      You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers for draft-akiya-=
mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.

      Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can kno=
w that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own docu=
ment. Also please don't update the draft while the reviews are in progress =
(we would like the reviewers to all review the same version).

      Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it use=
ful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and i=
s the document technically sound?  Also, is the text and grammar understand=
able (it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be reasonably=
 clear). We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be c=
onsidered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point,=
 but should be a good start).

      Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG s=
ecretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, Comments may be=
 sent privately to only the WG chairs.

      Are you able to review this draft by July 2, 2014?

      Thanks, Ross
      (as MPLS WG chair)


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>
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server">
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<font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">
<div><font color=3D"#1F497D">I have reviewed the draft and believe it is re=
ady for WG adoption consideration.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#1F497D">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#1F497D">I do have one suggestion &#8211; could we allo=
w multiple return paths to be specified via multiple &#8220;Replay Mode 5&#=
8221; in the new &#8220;Reply Mode Order TLV<font color=3D"#2F5496">&#8221;=
</font><font color=3D"#2F5496"> and </font><font color=3D"#2F5496">multiple
</font><font color=3D"#2F5496">Reply Path TLV</font><font color=3D"#2F5496"=
>s </font><font color=3D"#2F5496">(c</font>urrently it is not allowed)<font=
 face=3D"Courier New">.</font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2" color=3D"#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#1F497D">Thanks.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#1F497D">Jeffrey<a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a></font>=
</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">_________________________________________=
____<br>

<b>From:</b> Ross Callon <br>

<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM<br>

<b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); jeremy.w=
hittaker@verizon.com<br>

<b>Cc:</b> draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls=
-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux<br>

<b>Subject:</b> MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simp=
le-02</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">You have been selected as MPLS Review tea=
m reviewers for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">Note to authors: You have been CC'd on th=
is email so that you can know that this review is going on. However, please=
 do not review your own document. Also please don&#8217;t update the draft =
while the reviews are in progress (we would
like the reviewers to all review the same version).</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">Reviews should comment on whether the doc=
ument is coherent, is it useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in =
operational networks), and is the document technically sound?&nbsp; Also, i=
s the text and grammar understandable (it
doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be reasonably clear). =
We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered=
 for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but shou=
ld be a good start).</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">Reviews should be sent to the document au=
thors, WG co-chairs and WG secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. I=
f necessary, Comments may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">Are you able to review this draft by July=
 2, 2014?</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">Thanks, Ross</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">(as MPLS WG chair)</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;">&nbsp;</div>
</span></font>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Tue Jul  1 11:19:11 2014
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
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From nobody Tue Jul  1 11:48:43 2014
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To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>, Harish Sitaraman <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, Kapil Arora <kapilaro@juniper.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 12:41:38 -0400
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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I have also reviewed this draft, and in my opinion it is coherent and usefu=
l.

One additional suggestion is that the reverse LSP sections (3.1 and 6.1) mi=
ght benefit from more explanation of the LSP types included or not included=
.  Nevertheless, I would recommend it move forward as well.

Regards,
Jeremy Whittaker

From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 11:08 AM
To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Whittaker, Jeremy M; Harish=
 Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs=
@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-=
02

I have reviewed the draft and believe it is ready for WG adoption considera=
tion.

I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be speci=
fied via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order TLV" and mul=
tiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).

Thanks.
Jeffrey
_____________________________________________
From: Ross Callon
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM
To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); jeremy.whittake=
r@verizon.com<mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft=
-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-chairs@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>; Martin Vigoureux
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02


Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;

You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers for draft-akiya-mpls-l=
sp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know that=
 this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document. =
Also please don't update the draft while the reviews are in progress (we wo=
uld like the reviewers to all review the same version).

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful (i=
e, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is the =
document technically sound?  Also, is the text and grammar understandable (=
it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be reasonably clear=
). We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be conside=
red for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but s=
hould be a good start).

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG secreta=
ry, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, Comments may be sent =
privately to only the WG chairs.

Are you able to review this draft by July 2, 2014?

Thanks, Ross
(as MPLS WG chair)


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osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:=
//www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=
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oft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have al=
so reviewed this draft, and in my opinion it is coherent and useful.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>One additional suggestion is that the revers=
e LSP sections (3.1 and 6.1) might benefit from more explanation of the LSP=
 types included or not included.&nbsp; Nevertheless, I would recommend it m=
ove forward as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jeremy Whittaker<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0=
in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper=
.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 11:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> Ross C=
allon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Whittaker, Jeremy M; Harish Sitaraman=
; Kapil Arora<br><b>Cc:</b> draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@too=
ls.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls@ietf.org<br=
><b>Subject:</b> RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode=
-simple-02<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have reviewed the draft and b=
elieve it is ready for WG adoption consideration.</span><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do have one suggestion &#8211; could we allow =
multiple return paths to be specified via multiple &#8220;Replay Mode 5&#82=
21; in the new &#8220;Reply Mode Order TLV</span><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2F5496'>&#8221; and multipl=
e Reply Path TLVs (c</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>urrently it is not allowed)</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>.</span><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks.</span><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jeffrey</span><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>___________________________________=
__________<br><b>From:</b> Ross Callon <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 17, 2=
014 4:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Must=
apha); <a href=3D"mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com">jeremy.whittaker@ver=
izon.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-repl=
y-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org">draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@t=
ools.ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chair=
s@tools.ietf.org</a>; Martin Vigoureux<br><b>Subject:</b> MPLS-RT review of=
 draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif"'>You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers=
 for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
'>Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document=
. Also please don&#8217;t update the draft while the reviews are in progres=
s (we would like the reviewers to all review the same version).<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif"'>Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is=
 it useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks)=
, and is the document technically sound?&nbsp; Also, is the text and gramma=
r understandable (it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should b=
e reasonably clear). We are interested in knowing whether the document is r=
eady to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at=
 this point, but should be a good start).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Reviews s=
hould be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG secretary, and C=
C'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, Comments may be sent privately=
 to only the WG chairs.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Are you able to review this=
 draft by July 2, 2014?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>(as MPLS WG chair)<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html=
>=

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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>, Harish Sitaraman <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, Kapil Arora <kapilaro@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
Thread-Index: AQHPlUa95Ejp2shyyECvEuCXXDZC9JuL84fA
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 00:58:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Jeffrey,

Thank you for reviewing this document.

> I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be
> specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order TLV"
> and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).

Interesting, I do find what you suggested to be useful. I went back to RFC7=
110 and read up on the Reply Path TLV definition. The TLV can contain zero,=
 one or more FECs.

   Reply Path:  It is used to describe the return path that an echo
      reply will be send along.  It is variable in length and can
      contain zero, one or more Target FEC sub-TLVs [RFC4379]. =20

So it appears that "Reply Mode 5" can be one of the entries in the "Reply M=
ode Order TLV", and "Reply Path TLV" can contain multiple FECs.

(1) What is possible as is:
  Pref#1: Reply Mode 4    Reply via application level control channel
  Pref#2a: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> First FEC listed
  Pref#2b: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> Second FEC listed
  Pref#3: Reply Mode 2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet

(2) What is not possible as is:
  Pref#1: Reply Mode 4    Reply via application level control channel
  Pref#2: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> First FEC listed
  Pref#3: Reply Mode 2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
  Pref#4: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> Second FEC listed

Granularity of really mixing up Reply Modes and return FECs like (2) cannot=
 be accomplished, but I'm not sure if we need such granularity and I believ=
e (1) is reasonable. If you are ok with this, then I think it's worth addin=
g texts to describe this usages. Do let us know you preference.

Thanks!

-Nobo


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)
> Zhang
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 12:08 PM
> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com; Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
> reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> mode-simple-02
>=20
> I have reviewed the draft and believe it is ready for WG adoption
> consideration.
>=20
> I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be
> specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order TLV"
> and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).
>=20
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> _____________________________________________
> From: Ross Callon
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
> Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-
> 02
>=20
>=20
> Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;
>=20
> You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers for draft-akiya-
> mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.
>=20
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
> Also please don't update the draft while the reviews are in progress (we
> would like the reviewers to all review the same version).
>=20
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is =
the
> document technically sound?=A0 Also, is the text and grammar understandab=
le
> (it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be reasonably cl=
ear).
> We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be
> considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this poi=
nt,
> but should be a good start).
>=20
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG
> secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, Comments may
> be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>=20
> Are you able to review this draft by July 2, 2014?
>=20
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>=20


From nobody Tue Jul  1 18:31:17 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Whittaker, Jeremy M" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>, Harish Sitaraman <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, Kapil Arora <kapilaro@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
Thread-Index: AQHPlUti1OENGA+t0ESUHzyMwGQ6BpuL9uUw
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 01:31:12 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Jeremy,

Thank you for reviewing this document.

> One additional suggestion is that the reverse LSP sections (3.1 and 6.1)
> might benefit from more explanation of the LSP types included or not
> included.  Nevertheless, I would recommend it move forward as well.

Agree, that will improve the readability of this document. We certain do no=
t want to list LSPs restrict the term "reverse LSP" to be applicable only f=
or them, but we will list associated RSVP LSPs and TP LSPs as examples. Wou=
ld this be ok with you?

Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Whittaker, Jeremy M [mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 12:42 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple-02
>=20
> I have also reviewed this draft, and in my opinion it is coherent and use=
ful.
>=20
> One additional suggestion is that the reverse LSP sections (3.1 and 6.1)
> might benefit from more explanation of the LSP types included or not
> included.=A0 Nevertheless, I would recommend it move forward as well.
>=20
> Regards,
> Jeremy Whittaker
>=20
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 11:08 AM
> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Whittaker, Jeremy M;
> Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple-02
>=20
> I have reviewed the draft and believe it is ready for WG adoption
> consideration.
>=20
> I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be
> specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order TLV"
> and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).
>=20
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> _____________________________________________
> From: Ross Callon
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
> Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-
> 02
>=20
>=20
> Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;
>=20
> You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers for draft-akiya-
> mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.
>=20
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know th=
at
> this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document.
> Also please don't update the draft while the reviews are in progress (we
> would like the reviewers to all review the same version).
>=20
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful
> (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is =
the
> document technically sound?=A0 Also, is the text and grammar understandab=
le
> (it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be reasonably cl=
ear).
> We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be
> considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this poi=
nt,
> but should be a good start).
>=20
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG
> secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, Comments may
> be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>=20
> Are you able to review this draft by July 2, 2014?
>=20
> Thanks, Ross
> (as MPLS WG chair)
>=20


From nobody Wed Jul  2 10:15:44 2014
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From nobody Wed Jul  2 11:10:05 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Inter-Area P2MP Segmented LSPs
        Authors         : Yakov Rekhter
                          Rahul Aggarwal
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
	Pages           : 42
	Date            : 2014-07-02

Abstract:
   This document describes procedures for building inter-area point-to-
   multipoint (P2MP) segmented service LSPs by partitioning such LSPs
   into intra-area segments and using BGP as the inter-area routing and
   label distribution protocol. Within each IGP area the intra-area
   segments are either carried over intra-area P2MP LSPs, using P2MP LSP
   hierarchy, or instantiated using ingress replication.  The intra-area
   P2MP LSPs may be signaled using P2MP RSVP-TE or P2MP mLDP. If ingress
   replication is used within an IGP area, then (multipoint-to-point)
   LDP LSPs or (point-to-point) RSVP-TE LSPs may be used in the IGP
   area. The applications/services that use such inter-area service LSPs
   may be BGP Multicast VPN, VPLS multicast, or global table multicast
   over MPLS.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jul  2 12:02:48 2014
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From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Subject: [mpls]  I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
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Folks,

The revised version (-14) reflects all the comments received
during the WG LC.

Yakov.
------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:10:00 -0700
From:    <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To:      <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
cc:      <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group o
f the IETF.

        Title           : Inter-Area P2MP Segmented LSPs
        Authors         : Yakov Rekhter
                          Rahul Aggarwal
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
	Pages           : 42
	Date            : 2014-07-02

Abstract:
   This document describes procedures for building inter-area point-to-
   multipoint (P2MP) segmented service LSPs by partitioning such LSPs
   into intra-area segments and using BGP as the inter-area routing and
   label distribution protocol. Within each IGP area the intra-area
   segments are either carried over intra-area P2MP LSPs, using P2MP LSP
   hierarchy, or instantiated using ingress replication.  The intra-area
   P2MP LSPs may be signaled using P2MP RSVP-TE or P2MP mLDP. If ingress
   replication is used within an IGP area, then (multipoint-to-point)
   LDP LSPs or (point-to-point) RSVP-TE LSPs may be used in the IGP
   area. The applications/services that use such inter-area service LSPs
   may be BGP Multicast VPN, VPLS multicast, or global table multicast
   over MPLS.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

------- End of Forwarded Message


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-chen-mpls-source-label
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-chen-mpls-source-label
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Hi Yimin, Eric(s) and Lizhong,

Thanks for your comments!

We just uploaded two updates (Version 4 and 5) to address your comments.=20

Version 4 solved most of your comments, changes include:
1) Add text to discuss how to prevent SL from leaking to unintended domains=
; (according to Eric Rosen's comments)
2) Remove RSPV-TP related part (according to Lizhong and Eric Osborne's com=
ments)
3) Add text to allow one or more SLs that can be allocated to an LSR(accord=
ing to Yimin's comments);
4) Refine the Security Consideration;

Here is diff from Version 03 to 04 (http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraf=
t-chen-mpls-source-label-04), please refer.

Version 5 solved one comment from Eric Rosen, add text to discuss how to pr=
event LDP based SLC from leaking SLC outside SLAD.
Here is diff from 04 to 05 (http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-m=
pls-source-label-05 )


The authors believe that the latest version has solved the received comment=
s so far and is ready to be considered as an WG document.

Thanks,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mach Chen
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:17 AM
> To: erosen@cisco.com
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-chen-mpls-source-label
>=20
> Hi Eric,
>=20
> Thanks for your comments!
>=20
> We are preparing an update to address the comments from the MPLS-RT
> reviewers and you.
>=20
> Regarding how to prevent SLC and LS leaking outside to the unintended nod=
es
> and/or domains, we have the following thoughts:
>=20
> 1) Naturally, IGP based SLC negotiation and SL distribution will not leak=
 the SLC
> and SL outside an IGP domain, should be no more concerns here;
>=20
> 2) LDP based LSC negotiation, normally LDP is running within an AS, altho=
ugh as
> you said, technically, it may running across domains and leak the SLC out=
side
> domain. As you suggested, we will add some text to the LDP based SLC part=
 to
> discuss this.
>=20
> 3) For inter-AS scenario, presumably, BGP will be used for SLC negotiatio=
n and SL
> distribution, we are considering to use non-transitive attribute + policy=
 control
> (e.g., as the way AIGP uses ) to prevent SLC and SL leaking outside to th=
e
> unintended domain(s).
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Mach
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Rosen [mailto:erosen@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:23 AM
> > To: Mach Chen
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-chen-mpls-source-label
> >
> > Mach> My point is that the distribution mechanisms should be defined
> > Mach> in separate documents
> >
> > I don't think anyone is really concerned right now with the number of
> > documents used to define the "source label" mechanisms.  The issue at
> > hand is whether the "source label" proposal is architecturally sound.
> > Any proposal that uses scoped identifiers has to provide mechanisms
> > that prevent the identifiers from leaking out of their intended scope, =
either via
> the control plane or the data plane.
> > Right now there is no draft or set of drafts that we can look at to
> > see how the scoping is enforced.  The source-label draft is just one
> > piece of the architecture, and I don't think it can be accepted until
> > we can determine whether the architecture can be completed.
> >
> > If one looks at the two proposed distribution mechanisms for which
> > there are internet drafts (draft-chen-isis-source-label and
> > draft-chen-ospf-source-label), we see that these two proposals only
> > distribute the labels within a single IGP domain.  Since the scope of
> > a source label is not restricted to a single IGP domain, we can
> > conclude that these two proposals are not, by themselves, adequate.
> >
> > The drafts also don't seem to have any procedures for dealing with the
> > case where two nodes advertise the same source label.
> >
> > Mach> There may need other solutions (e.g., BGP extensions) for the
> > Mach> distribution in that case. This should be discussed when we
> > Mach> start to define the distribution mechanisms.
> >
> > I think we need to see the proposal for the BGP extensions before the
> > source-label draft can be considered.  That is, I don't think the WG
> > should accept the SL draft until some progress has been made in
> > defining the distribution mechanisms.
> >
> > Xiaohu> the SL advertisement could be done by a centralized mapping
> > Xiaohu> server
> >
> > Sure, one could imagine a provisioning system that knows exactly which
> > egress LSRs need to know the source labels for which ingress LSRs, and
> > would provision the LSR accordingly.  However, unless the draft is
> > going to say that source labels MUST NOT be used unless there is such
> > provisioning system, this doesn't really help.  Also, this doesn't
> > address the issue of source labels in the data plane leaking outside th=
e domain.
> >
> > Eric> The ingress would have know, not only that the egress is capable
> > Eric> of processing the source label, but that the egress will
> > Eric> interpret the source label in the proper scope.  The draft
> > Eric> doesn't address the issue of how to ensure that ingress and
> > Eric> egress agree on the intended scope of the label.
> >
> > Mach> For single domain case, the SLC will be only exchanged among the
> > Mach> LSRs within the domain, when the ingress knows the egress can
> > Mach> support SLC, it implicit indicates that the egress will
> > Mach> interpret the SL in the same scope of itself.
> >
> > Mach> Actually, even for multiple domains, it is still the case, since
> > Mach> SL will be used across domains, the SL space should be shared by
> > Mach> the domains.
> >
> > The question is, how does the ingress LSR know that the egress LSR is
> > in the same domain, or in a domain that shares the same SL space?  I
> > think you're assuming that the capability advertisement from the
> > egress will not cross the domain boundary.  Given that assumption, if
> > an ingress LSR sees an SL capability advertisement from an egress LSR,
> > the ingress could assume that the egress is in the same domain.
> > However, the SLC signaling mechanisms described in the draft do not pre=
vent
> the SL Capability signal from crossing a domain boundary.
> > On the contrary, the mechanisms described in the draft will cause the
> > SLC to be signaled from egress to ingress with no regard for domain
> boundaries.
> >
> > Consider, for instance, the LDP extensions.  From section 6.1.1:
> >
> >    "If all the advertised Mappings for F include the SLC TLV, then X
> >     MUST advertise its Mapping for F with the SLC TLV."
> >
> > This will cause the SLC to go from egress to ingress, with no regard fo=
r
> > domain boundaries.   Perhaps the above should say "MAY advertise", and
> > should have some discussion of policy.
> >
> > Section 6.1.2 proposes a BGP path attribute to signal the SL Capability=
:
> >
> >     "When Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) [RFC4271] is used for distribut=
ing
> >     Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI) as described in, for
> >     example, [RFC3107], [RFC4364], the BGP UPDATE message may include
> the
> >     SLC attribute as part of the Path Attributes.  This is an optional,
> >     transitive BGP attribute of value TBD3.  The inclusion of this attr=
ibute
> >     with an NLRI indicates that the advertising BGP router can process
> >     Source Labels as an egress LSR for all routes in that NLRI.
> >
> >     ...
> >
> >     Suppose a BGP speaker T receives an UPDATE U with the SLC attribute=
.  T
> >     has two choices.  T can simply re-advertise U with the SLC attribut=
e if
> >     either of the following is true:
> >
> >     B1: T does not change the NEXT_HOP attribute OR
> >
> >     B2: T simply swaps labels without popping the entire label stack an=
d
> >     processing the payload below."
> >
> > Note that if the SLC attribute is an optional transitive attribute,
> > then if T does not understand this attribute, T will pass it along
> > even if conditions B1 and B2 do not hold.  (Perhaps the attribute
> > needs to be
> > non-transitive.)
> >
> > B2 is a little hard to understand.  Let P be the prefix in the NLRI of
> > update U.  I think the intention is that the SLC attribute be left on
> > by T if each of T's installed routes to P has the SLC attribute.  (B2
> > as written seems to be about the data plane, but the context of this
> > section is the control plane.)
> >
> > Even if B1 does hold, it may still be incorrect for router T to pass al=
ong the SLC.
> > For example, suppose the data path from R1 to R2 is as follows:
> >
> >       R1---ASBR1---ASBR2---R2
> >
> > but suppose that R1 and R2 exchange VPN routes through a different path=
:
> >
> >       R1---T1---T2---R2
> >
> > where T1 and T2 aren't in the data path at all.  This could occur in an=
 "option C"
> > type of interconnect. (RFC4364 section 10 option c.)  Suppose that R1
> > and R2 are in different domains.  T1 and T2 would leave the next hop
> > unchanged.  When
> > R1 has data to send to P, it would find R2 to be the next hop, and
> > then would do recursive route resolution to find that ASBR1 is its
> > next hop to R2.  In this scenario, R1's route to P would have the SLC
> > attribute, but R2 would not properly interpret R1's source label.
> >
> > To make this work at all, you'd have to mandate that the SLC attribute
> > be attached to a route that travels along the data path (i.e., goes
> > through the ASBRs), and there would have to be policy at the ASBRs
> > that strips off the SLC if the ASBRs are at a domain boundary.  The
> > proper behavior when recursive route resolution is done would also have=
 to be
> specified.
> >
> > I'm having some trouble understanding the following paragraph from the =
draft:
> >
> >    "However, if T changes the NEXT_HOP attribute for U and in the data =
plane
> >    pops the entire label stack to process the payload, T MAY include an=
 SLC
> >    attribute for UPDATE U' if both of the following are true:"
> >
> >    C1: T sets the NEXT_HOP attribute of U' to itself AND
> >
> >    C2: T can process source labels.  Otherwise, T MUST remove the SLC
> >    attribute."
> >
> > The term UPDATE U' doesn't appear to have been defined anywhere,
> > though I assume this is meant to be the update you get when you take
> > Update U and change the next hop.  Does the phrase "and in the data
> > plane pops the entire label stack to process the payload" mean that T
> > is the egress LSR for the prefix in U's NLRI?  If so, I don't think
> > this entire paragraph is needed, as T will be originating an Update
> > for that prefix, and will include the SLC attribute if necessary.
> >
> > Eric> With no structure and no "domain identifier" in the source
> > Eric> label, it is very easy end up with non-unique labels within a dom=
ain.
> >
> > Mach> There are also many non-structure cases, for example, Router ID,
> > Mach> Segment ID, VE ID of BGP VPLS
> > Mach> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4761#section-3.4.4 ), they work fi=
ne.
> >
> > I have to admit that I have always regarded the VPLS VE IDs as a very b=
ad idea.
> > However, they do have a well-defined scope, namely a single VPLS.
> > RT-based mechanisms are used to constrain their distribution so that
> > they don't leak unintentionally into other VPLSes.  And the VE IDs do
> > not appear in the data packets.  These characteristics make it
> > possible to get away with an unstructured identifier space.  SLs don't
> > seem to have a well-defined scope, or a well-defined distribution mecha=
nism,
> and they do get carried by data packets.
> > Leakage out of the intended domain is thus much more of a problem.  So
> > I don't think SLs can be compared to VPLS VE IDs.
> >
> > With regard to router ids, if you've ever followed any of the
> > vituperative discussions that arise when router ids are discussed
> > (e.g., when discussing whether a 32-bit id is appropriate for an
> > IPv6-based protocol), you'll see that there are quite a few issues in t=
he
> management of that numbering space.
> >
> > Mach> In addition, even for your RT example, for L3VPN inter-AS
> > Mach> scenario, the RT has to be considered as single space, the
> > Mach> domain identifier does not help here.
> >
> > RTs are structured so that a SP can allocate RT values that are
> > globally unique, not just unique within a domain.  So a "domain
> > identifier" is not needed.  I believe it is true that some SPs use
> > RTs that are not globally unique, but that is a choice they have made
> > for themselves, not a choice that is forced upon them by the architectu=
re.
> >
> > Eric> One might also ask why there is a need to use a 20-bit label to
> > Eric> identify a node, instead of using some other format.
> >
> > Mach> We are talking about identifying the source of an LSP, and the
> > Mach> label stack is the MPLS header and there are only labels, then
> > Mach> seems that a label to identify the ingress LSR is a naturally cho=
ice.
> >
> > A couple of other possibilities come readily to mind:
> >
> > - Treat the SLI as the bottom of the stack, and follow it with a 32-bit
> >   address (or even a 128-bit address) of the ingress.  (Or maybe use
> >   something based on the "generic associated channel".)
> >
> > - Use two label stack entries and stuff a 32-bit "router id" in them,
> >   using more per-packet overhead but eliminating the need to manage a
> 20-bit
> >   domain-wide numbering space.
> >
> > But perhaps the use case is easier to implement if the SL fits into
> > the same
> > 20 bits usually used for labels.  If so, that would be worth mentioning=
.
> >
> > With regard to the name,
> >
> > Xiaohu> What about IIL (Ingress Identification Label)?
> >
> > I do like that better.
> >
> > However, getting all the details right is going to be a lot of work,
> > especially for something that has only one use case, and a controversia=
l one at
> that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : MPLS Performance Measurement UDP Return Path
        Authors         : Stewart Bryant
                          Siva Sivabalan
                          Sagar Soni
	Filename        : draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return-02.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2014-07-03

Abstract:
   This document specifies the proceedure to be used by the Packet Loss
   and Delay Measurement for MPLS Networks protocol defined in RFC6374
   when sending and processing MPLS performance management out-of-band
   responses for delay and loss measurements over an IP/UDP return path.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return-02

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http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return-02


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Just an update for everyone.  Sam will be posting an update to the draft today/tomorrow with the changes to address the comments below.   
My annotated comments inline. Search for ###VLIM:

The only thing remaining is a future update with the IANA assignments.

Regards,

-Vanson



On 5/28/14, 9:04 PM, Sam Aldrin wrote:
> Hi Mach and Qin,
>
> Please find response to comments embedded with ##RESP.
> Sorry it took a while to respond but here it is anyway.
> Let know if you have any further questions. We would like to make edits, close all open items and submit a new version of the draft to complete LC.
>
>
> Comments from Qin:
>
> #1
> Hi, authors:
> Have a quick look at this draft, It is not clear to me why proxy LSR doesn't need to wait for
> The result of MPLS echo rely and then send MPLS proxy ping reply?
> I know the draft says the receivers process the MPLS echo request, sending their
> MPLS echo replies directly back to the initiator, however why bypass proxy LSR?
> What about MPLS echo request initiating by proxy LSR is lost? How does the initiator
> know the lost of MPLS echo request or reply?
> What am I missing?
>
> ##RESP:   LSP ping is designed with initiator initiating the request and maintaining the state for the same. All the transit or responding router do not maintain any state. Requiring Proxy LSRs to manage relaying the response would require it to maintain state for the entire transaction,  including requiring the a timeout to be supplied by the initiator. This will require the change in architecture, which this draft is definitely not intending to do.
>
>
> #2
> Also it is not very clear to me how to use reply mode 5, although the draft says
> "
> If the Reply Mode of the message header is 1 or is 5 and no errors or
> modifications have occurred no MPLS proxy ping reply is sent.
> "
> ##RESP:  There is no mention of reply mode 5. Which document are you referring to? The document refers only to mode 1, where, no reply SHOULD be sent for that mode.
>
>     If the Reply Mode of the Proxy Request message header is "1 - do not
>     reply", no MPLS proxy ping reply is sent.  Otherwise an MPLS proxy
>     ping reply message or MPLS echo request should be sent as described
>     below.
>
> #3
> It looks to me if no MPLS proxy ping rely needs to be sent, why define reply mode 5?
> ###RESP:  No mention of reply mode 5. If you are referring to reply mode 1, the question is for RFC4379. All I can say is, it is there to check unidirectional errors.
>
> #4
> Also there are a lot of nits and typos that need to be fixed,
> s/ limiting the the number/ limiting the number
> s/ motivaton/ motivation
> s/ and and all autho-rization/ and all authorization
> s/ Pprocedures/ Procedures
> s/ sub-objexts/ sub-objects
> s/ modificatons /modifications
> s/ decribed/ described
> s/ assigments/assignments
>
> ##RESP: Ack

###VLIM:  Issue resolved.
>
> #5
> In section 5.2, there is no definition of reply to address field, I think it should be defined as initiator address
>
> ##RESP:  This is the address the echo reply should be sent to,  most likely the initiator, but could be something else. We will add text for the field.
>
> #6
> For Downstream Mapping objects, it is better to add a reference to RFC4379.
> The references [McstPing] [mLDP] are now outdated and need to be updated to the corresponding RFC.
> ##RESP - Ack. Will add references.

###VLIM: Changed all references of mDP to “Label Distribution Protocol Extensions for Point-to-Multipoint and Multipoint-to-Multipoint 
Label Switched Paths [RFC 6388]
>
> Regards!
> -Qin
>
>
>
> ======
>
>
> 2) From Mach Chen
>
> Hi Authors,
>
> I just reviewed the draft, here are my comments, hope this help.
>
> General comments:
> It would be better if you could adjust the structure of the draft to put Section 3 behind Section 5. Then the reader will not need to check definitions of the Messages and TLVs in the back and then return back keep reading the document.
>
> ##RESP - I feel it is good to have description before the actual format definition. Either case, one has to go back and forth to understand completely. Is there any hard preference to your suggestion?
>
> Specific comments:
>
>
> 1. Section 2
>
> If the source address of the MPLS echo request is not to be
>     set to the Proxy Request source address, the initiator must include a
>     Reply-to Address TLV containing the source address to use in the MPLS
>     echo request.
>
> Why we need the Reply-to Address TLV? Which address will be included in the Reply-to Address TLV? If the address is neither the initiror or the proxy LSR, this may import some security isses?
>
> ##RESP: We added this TLV for a reason, which at that time, was needed. From what we see now, the requestor IP will be used. Hence, this TLV will be removed.
>
> 2. Section 3.1
>
> 2.1
> "The message MUST contain a Target FEC Stack that describes the FEC
>     being tested.  The topmost FEC in the target FEC stack is used at the
>     Proxy LSR to lookup the MPLS label stack that will be used to
>     encapsulate the MPLS echo request packet.
> "
> Seems that it only needs to carry the topmost FEC, and no need to carry other FECs. And even if carried, it does not make sense. Right?
>
>
> ##RESP:  reused existing target fec stack,  don’t want to restrict to topmost FEC in case there are future uses.
>
>
> 2.2
> s /MPLS Proxy Ping message/MPLS proxy ping request message, need to look through the document to make them consistent.
> ##RESP - Ack.

###VLIM:  One occurrence found in section 3.1, second paragraph, Also went through the entire document and changed all occurrences of Proxy 
Request/Reply,  MPLS Proxy Ping/Proxy Reply, etc to “MPLS proxy ping request” and “MPLS proxy ping reply”.


>
>
> 3. Section 3.1 the sixth paragraph:
> "The Proxy Request reply mode is set with one of the reply modes
>     defined in [RFC4379] as appropriate."
>
> Is the reply mode here referred to the reply mode of the MPLS proxy request, or the reply mode of the Proxy Echo Parameter. I think it's the former, right?
>
> And section 5.1 said:
> "The MPLS Proxy Echo request echo header's Reply Mode should be set to "Reply with Proxy Info"."
>
> Seems they are self-contradictory here.
>
> ##RESP - Not really. Sec 3 is describing the reply mode should use one of the modes defined in RFC4379. While Sec 5.1 is talking about the request to query info from proxy LSR.
>
> 4. Section 3.1 the last second paragraph:
>
> s /DDSMAP)/(DDSMAP)
>
> ##RESP - Ack

###VLIM: Found, changed “DDSMAP)” -> “(DDMAP)”

>
> 5. Section 3.2, in the middle of the fourth paragraph.
>
> "Other filters on FECs or MPLS echo request contents MAY be applied."
>
>
> For a Proxy LSR, it will not receive any MPLS echo request, should it be the MPLS proxy ping request here?
>
>
> ##RESP:  The sentence is talking about proxy LSR sending MPLS echo request, not receiving.
>
> 6. Section 3.2.1
>
> 6.1 In the middle of third paragraph:
>
> "If the Proxy LSR is a Budnode but not
>     requested to return a Proxy reply, the Proxy LSR should send packets
>     to the downstream neighbors (no Echo reply is sent to the Proxy
>     Initiator to indicate that the Proxy LSR is an egress).
> "
>
> What packets will be sent to the downstream neighbors?
>
> ##RESP:  “MPLS Echo Request”

###VLIM:  Updated from “send packets” to “send MPLS Echo Request packets”
###VLIM:  Update all occurrences of Proxy Reply, to MPLS proxy ping reply,
###VLIM:  Update all occurrences of "MPLS echo request", to "MPLS Echo Request"
>
> 6.2
> If there is no DS/DDMAPs returned, how does the initiator determine the proxy LSR is budnode or egress?
>
> ##RESP: wanted to have the same behavior when injecting a LSP Ping at an egress.  When we ping from a bud node,  if we  don’t typically get an echo reply from ourselves,  so we wanted to provide the ability for the Proxy requester to decide whether they want a proxy reply to by send back in response to a proxy request.  is_egress return code used to indicate proxy lsr also an egress.
>
>
>
> 6.3 Last paragraph, last sentence
>
> s / M2MP leaf /MP2MP leaf
>
> ##RESP - ack

###VLIM:  Updated
>
> 7. Section 3.2.4.1
>
> 7.1 What's is "base MPLS echo request"? I suggest to remove the "base" here.
>
> ##RESP: Seems fine to remove.
###VLIM:  4 occurrences found,  “base” removed.


>
> 7.2
>
> "If the Explicit Differentiated Services Code Point (DSCP) flag is
>     set, the Requested DSCP byte is examined.  If the setting is
>     permitted then the DSCP byte of the IP header of the MPLS Echo
>     Request message is set to that value.  If the Proxy LSR does not
>     permit explicit control for the DSCP byte, the MPLS Proxy Echo
>     Parameters with the Explicit DSCP flag cleared MUST be included in
>     any MPLS proxy ping reply message to indicate why an Echo Request was
>     not sent.  The return code MUST be set to <tba>, "Proxy ping
>     parameters need to be modified".  If the Explicit DSCP flag is not
>     set, the Proxy LSR should set the Echo Request DSCP settings to the
>     value normally used to source LSP ping packets."
>
> I am not sure whether this is the right choice to let the Proxy LSR to control whether the DSCP is permitted or not. IMO, this permission should be controlled by the Receiver or Responder.
>
> ##RESP:  This section is referring to the DSCP settings in the MPLS echo request label stack and ip header not the reply dscp.   When initiating LSP pings, the sender of the lsp ping controls this setting, so it was felt that it be valuable to allow the sender of the proxy request to control this subject to restrictions imposed at the Proxy LSR.
>
>
>
> 8.  Section 3.2.4.2
>
> "If any additional labels are pushed
>     onto the stack, their TTLs are set to 255."
>
> what's this case? Can you clarify more about the case?
>
> ##RESP:  Don’t want to requester have have control of the ttls for tunnels not relevant to the FEC being tested.
###VLIM:  Sam worked with Mach to address his concern with wording in this section.


>
> 9. Section 4.2
> "
>   The MPLS proxy ping request message MAY contain the following
>     TLVs:
> "
> You may also need to contain the Type 21 and 22 TLV.
>
> ##RESP:  okay, we’ll add these tlv’s to the list of tlv’s to be included in the proxy request for including into the echo requests.

###VLIM: Added
21    Reply Path    [RFC7110]
22    Reply TC    [RFC7110]
>
> 10.Section 5.1
>
> s /MPLS Proxy Echo Request message /MPLS proxy ping request message, same as the above comment 2.2
> ##RESP - ack

###VLIM:   Changed.

>
>
> Best regards,
> Mach
>
> Cheers
> -sam
>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 1:03 PM
>>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
>>> Subject: [mpls] Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping
>>>
>>> Working Group,
>>>
>>> this is to start a two week working group last call on
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-01.txt
>>>
>>> Please send your comments to working group mailing lists (mpls@ietf.org).
>>>
>>> We will do an IPR poll on this document in parallel thee wglc.
>>>
>>> There are three IPRs disclosures that relates to this document.
>>>
>>> The working group last call will end Friday January 20, 2914.
>>>
>>> /Loa
>>> mpls wg co-chair
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> .
>


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Proxy MPLS Echo Request
        Authors         : George Swallow
                          Vanson Lim
                          Sam Aldrin
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-02.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2014-07-03

Abstract:
   This document defines a means of remotely initiating Multiprotocol
   Label Switched Protocol Pings on Label Switched Paths.  A MPLS proxy
   ping request is sent to any Label Switching Routers along a Label
   Switched Path.  The primary motivations for this facility are first
   to limit the number of messages and related processing when using LSP
   Ping in large Point-to-Multipoint LSPs, and second to enable leaf to
   leaf/root tracing.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-02

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http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-02


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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <53B59F1F.3000706@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 12:31:15 -0700
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References: <52C795FE.7060801@pi.nu> <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D9512BE@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <EFB9A8E3-C023-4FBA-9394-DE79BD7C7CC4@gmail.com> <53B59F1F.3000706@cisco.com>
To: Vanson Lim <vlim@cisco.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping
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Hi Loa,

We have posted a new version of the draft.
It addressed comments raised by Mach and Qin.

One pending item remaining is IANA assignments.=20
Kindly advise how to proceed in this matter and we could take care of =
it.

thanks
-sam
On Jul 3, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Vanson Lim <vlim@cisco.com> wrote:

> Just an update for everyone.  Sam will be posting an update to the =
draft today/tomorrow with the changes to address the comments below.   =
My annotated comments inline. Search for ###VLIM:
>=20
> The only thing remaining is a future update with the IANA assignments.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> -Vanson
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 5/28/14, 9:04 PM, Sam Aldrin wrote:
>> Hi Mach and Qin,
>>=20
>> Please find response to comments embedded with ##RESP.
>> Sorry it took a while to respond but here it is anyway.
>> Let know if you have any further questions. We would like to make =
edits, close all open items and submit a new version of the draft to =
complete LC.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Comments from Qin:
>>=20
>> #1
>> Hi, authors:
>> Have a quick look at this draft, It is not clear to me why proxy LSR =
doesn't need to wait for
>> The result of MPLS echo rely and then send MPLS proxy ping reply?
>> I know the draft says the receivers process the MPLS echo request, =
sending their
>> MPLS echo replies directly back to the initiator, however why bypass =
proxy LSR?
>> What about MPLS echo request initiating by proxy LSR is lost? How =
does the initiator
>> know the lost of MPLS echo request or reply?
>> What am I missing?
>>=20
>> ##RESP:   LSP ping is designed with initiator initiating the request =
and maintaining the state for the same. All the transit or responding =
router do not maintain any state. Requiring Proxy LSRs to manage =
relaying the response would require it to maintain state for the entire =
transaction, including requiring the a timeout to be supplied by the =
initiator. This will require the change in architecture, which this =
draft is definitely not intending to do.
>>=20
>>=20
>> #2
>> Also it is not very clear to me how to use reply mode 5, although the =
draft says
>> "
>> If the Reply Mode of the message header is 1 or is 5 and no errors or
>> modifications have occurred no MPLS proxy ping reply is sent.
>> "
>> ##RESP:  There is no mention of reply mode 5. Which document are you =
referring to? The document refers only to mode 1, where, no reply SHOULD =
be sent for that mode.
>>=20
>>    If the Reply Mode of the Proxy Request message header is "1 - do =
not
>>    reply", no MPLS proxy ping reply is sent.  Otherwise an MPLS proxy
>>    ping reply message or MPLS echo request should be sent as =
described
>>    below.
>>=20
>> #3
>> It looks to me if no MPLS proxy ping rely needs to be sent, why =
define reply mode 5?
>> ###RESP:  No mention of reply mode 5. If you are referring to reply =
mode 1, the question is for RFC4379. All I can say is, it is there to =
check unidirectional errors.
>>=20
>> #4
>> Also there are a lot of nits and typos that need to be fixed,
>> s/ limiting the the number/ limiting the number
>> s/ motivaton/ motivation
>> s/ and and all autho-rization/ and all authorization
>> s/ Pprocedures/ Procedures
>> s/ sub-objexts/ sub-objects
>> s/ modificatons /modifications
>> s/ decribed/ described
>> s/ assigments/assignments
>>=20
>> ##RESP: Ack
>=20
> ###VLIM:  Issue resolved.
>>=20
>> #5
>> In section 5.2, there is no definition of reply to address field, I =
think it should be defined as initiator address
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  This is the address the echo reply should be sent to,  most =
likely the initiator, but could be something else. We will add text for =
the field.
>>=20
>> #6
>> For Downstream Mapping objects, it is better to add a reference to =
RFC4379.
>> The references [McstPing] [mLDP] are now outdated and need to be =
updated to the corresponding RFC.
>> ##RESP - Ack. Will add references.
>=20
> ###VLIM: Changed all references of mDP to =93Label Distribution =
Protocol Extensions for Point-to-Multipoint and Multipoint-to-Multipoint =
Label Switched Paths [RFC 6388]
>>=20
>> Regards!
>> -Qin
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>=20
>>=20
>> 2) =46rom Mach Chen
>>=20
>> Hi Authors,
>>=20
>> I just reviewed the draft, here are my comments, hope this help.
>>=20
>> General comments:
>> It would be better if you could adjust the structure of the draft to =
put Section 3 behind Section 5. Then the reader will not need to check =
definitions of the Messages and TLVs in the back and then return back =
keep reading the document.
>>=20
>> ##RESP - I feel it is good to have description before the actual =
format definition. Either case, one has to go back and forth to =
understand completely. Is there any hard preference to your suggestion?
>>=20
>> Specific comments:
>>=20
>>=20
>> 1. Section 2
>>=20
>> If the source address of the MPLS echo request is not to be
>>    set to the Proxy Request source address, the initiator must =
include a
>>    Reply-to Address TLV containing the source address to use in the =
MPLS
>>    echo request.
>>=20
>> Why we need the Reply-to Address TLV? Which address will be included =
in the Reply-to Address TLV? If the address is neither the initiror or =
the proxy LSR, this may import some security isses?
>>=20
>> ##RESP: We added this TLV for a reason, which at that time, was =
needed. =46rom what we see now, the requestor IP will be used. Hence, =
this TLV will be removed.
>>=20
>> 2. Section 3.1
>>=20
>> 2.1
>> "The message MUST contain a Target FEC Stack that describes the FEC
>>    being tested.  The topmost FEC in the target FEC stack is used at =
the
>>    Proxy LSR to lookup the MPLS label stack that will be used to
>>    encapsulate the MPLS echo request packet.
>> "
>> Seems that it only needs to carry the topmost FEC, and no need to =
carry other FECs. And even if carried, it does not make sense. Right?
>>=20
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  reused existing target fec stack,  don=92t want to restrict =
to topmost FEC in case there are future uses.
>>=20
>>=20
>> 2.2
>> s /MPLS Proxy Ping message/MPLS proxy ping request message, need to =
look through the document to make them consistent.
>> ##RESP - Ack.
>=20
> ###VLIM:  One occurrence found in section 3.1, second paragraph, Also =
went through the entire document and changed all occurrences of Proxy =
Request/Reply,  MPLS Proxy Ping/Proxy Reply, etc to =93MPLS proxy ping =
request=94 and =93MPLS proxy ping reply=94.
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> 3. Section 3.1 the sixth paragraph:
>> "The Proxy Request reply mode is set with one of the reply modes
>>    defined in [RFC4379] as appropriate."
>>=20
>> Is the reply mode here referred to the reply mode of the MPLS proxy =
request, or the reply mode of the Proxy Echo Parameter. I think it's the =
former, right?
>>=20
>> And section 5.1 said:
>> "The MPLS Proxy Echo request echo header's Reply Mode should be set =
to "Reply with Proxy Info"."
>>=20
>> Seems they are self-contradictory here.
>>=20
>> ##RESP - Not really. Sec 3 is describing the reply mode should use =
one of the modes defined in RFC4379. While Sec 5.1 is talking about the =
request to query info from proxy LSR.
>>=20
>> 4. Section 3.1 the last second paragraph:
>>=20
>> s /DDSMAP)/(DDSMAP)
>>=20
>> ##RESP - Ack
>=20
> ###VLIM: Found, changed =93DDSMAP)=94 -> =93(DDMAP)=94
>=20
>>=20
>> 5. Section 3.2, in the middle of the fourth paragraph.
>>=20
>> "Other filters on FECs or MPLS echo request contents MAY be applied."
>>=20
>>=20
>> For a Proxy LSR, it will not receive any MPLS echo request, should it =
be the MPLS proxy ping request here?
>>=20
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  The sentence is talking about proxy LSR sending MPLS echo =
request, not receiving.
>>=20
>> 6. Section 3.2.1
>>=20
>> 6.1 In the middle of third paragraph:
>>=20
>> "If the Proxy LSR is a Budnode but not
>>    requested to return a Proxy reply, the Proxy LSR should send =
packets
>>    to the downstream neighbors (no Echo reply is sent to the Proxy
>>    Initiator to indicate that the Proxy LSR is an egress).
>> "
>>=20
>> What packets will be sent to the downstream neighbors?
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  =93MPLS Echo Request=94
>=20
> ###VLIM:  Updated from =93send packets=94 to =93send MPLS Echo Request =
packets=94
> ###VLIM:  Update all occurrences of Proxy Reply, to MPLS proxy ping =
reply,
> ###VLIM:  Update all occurrences of "MPLS echo request", to "MPLS Echo =
Request"
>>=20
>> 6.2
>> If there is no DS/DDMAPs returned, how does the initiator determine =
the proxy LSR is budnode or egress?
>>=20
>> ##RESP: wanted to have the same behavior when injecting a LSP Ping at =
an egress.  When we ping from a bud node,  if we  don=92t typically get =
an echo reply from ourselves,  so we wanted to provide the ability for =
the Proxy requester to decide whether they want a proxy reply to by send =
back in response to a proxy request.  is_egress return code used to =
indicate proxy lsr also an egress.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> 6.3 Last paragraph, last sentence
>>=20
>> s / M2MP leaf /MP2MP leaf
>>=20
>> ##RESP - ack
>=20
> ###VLIM:  Updated
>>=20
>> 7. Section 3.2.4.1
>>=20
>> 7.1 What's is "base MPLS echo request"? I suggest to remove the =
"base" here.
>>=20
>> ##RESP: Seems fine to remove.
> ###VLIM:  4 occurrences found,  =93base=94 removed.
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> 7.2
>>=20
>> "If the Explicit Differentiated Services Code Point (DSCP) flag is
>>    set, the Requested DSCP byte is examined.  If the setting is
>>    permitted then the DSCP byte of the IP header of the MPLS Echo
>>    Request message is set to that value.  If the Proxy LSR does not
>>    permit explicit control for the DSCP byte, the MPLS Proxy Echo
>>    Parameters with the Explicit DSCP flag cleared MUST be included in
>>    any MPLS proxy ping reply message to indicate why an Echo Request =
was
>>    not sent.  The return code MUST be set to <tba>, "Proxy ping
>>    parameters need to be modified".  If the Explicit DSCP flag is not
>>    set, the Proxy LSR should set the Echo Request DSCP settings to =
the
>>    value normally used to source LSP ping packets."
>>=20
>> I am not sure whether this is the right choice to let the Proxy LSR =
to control whether the DSCP is permitted or not. IMO, this permission =
should be controlled by the Receiver or Responder.
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  This section is referring to the DSCP settings in the MPLS =
echo request label stack and ip header not the reply dscp.   When =
initiating LSP pings, the sender of the lsp ping controls this setting, =
so it was felt that it be valuable to allow the sender of the proxy =
request to control this subject to restrictions imposed at the Proxy =
LSR.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> 8.  Section 3.2.4.2
>>=20
>> "If any additional labels are pushed
>>    onto the stack, their TTLs are set to 255."
>>=20
>> what's this case? Can you clarify more about the case?
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  Don=92t want to requester have have control of the ttls for =
tunnels not relevant to the FEC being tested.
> ###VLIM:  Sam worked with Mach to address his concern with wording in =
this section.
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> 9. Section 4.2
>> "
>>  The MPLS proxy ping request message MAY contain the following
>>    TLVs:
>> "
>> You may also need to contain the Type 21 and 22 TLV.
>>=20
>> ##RESP:  okay, we=92ll add these tlv=92s to the list of tlv=92s to be =
included in the proxy request for including into the echo requests.
>=20
> ###VLIM: Added
> 21    Reply Path    [RFC7110]
> 22    Reply TC    [RFC7110]
>>=20
>> 10.Section 5.1
>>=20
>> s /MPLS Proxy Echo Request message /MPLS proxy ping request message, =
same as the above comment 2.2
>> ##RESP - ack
>=20
> ###VLIM:   Changed.
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Mach
>>=20
>> Cheers
>> -sam
>>=20
>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa =
Andersson
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 1:03 PM
>>>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>>>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
>>>> Subject: [mpls] Working group last call on =
draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping
>>>>=20
>>>> Working Group,
>>>>=20
>>>> this is to start a two week working group last call on
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-01.txt
>>>>=20
>>>> Please send your comments to working group mailing lists =
(mpls@ietf.org).
>>>>=20
>>>> We will do an IPR poll on this document in parallel thee wglc.
>>>>=20
>>>> There are three IPRs disclosures that relates to this document.
>>>>=20
>>>> The working group last call will end Friday January 20, 2914.
>>>>=20
>>>> /Loa
>>>> mpls wg co-chair
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> .


--Apple-Mail=_CDC22017-A46A-406F-8525-2F44DEE4434D
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Loa,<div><br></div><div>We have posted a new version of the =
draft.</div><div>It addressed comments raised by Mach and =
Qin.</div><div><br></div><div>One pending item remaining is IANA =
assignments.&nbsp;</div><div>Kindly advise how to proceed in this matter =
and we could take care of =
it.</div><div><br></div><div>thanks</div><div>-sam<br><div><div>On Jul =
3, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Vanson Lim &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:vlim@cisco.com">vlim@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Just an update for everyone. &nbsp;Sam =
will be posting an update to the draft today/tomorrow with the changes =
to address the comments below. &nbsp;&nbsp;My annotated comments inline. =
Search for ###VLIM:<br><br>The only thing remaining is a future update =
with the IANA =
assignments.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>-Vanson<br><br><br><br>On 5/28/14, =
9:04 PM, Sam Aldrin wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Hi Mach and =
Qin,<br><br>Please find response to comments embedded with =
##RESP.<br>Sorry it took a while to respond but here it is =
anyway.<br>Let know if you have any further questions. We would like to =
make edits, close all open items and submit a new version of the draft =
to complete LC.<br><br><br>Comments from Qin:<br><br>#1<br>Hi, =
authors:<br>Have a quick look at this draft, It is not clear to me why =
proxy LSR doesn't need to wait for<br>The result of MPLS echo rely and =
then send MPLS proxy ping reply?<br>I know the draft says the receivers =
process the MPLS echo request, sending their<br>MPLS echo replies =
directly back to the initiator, however why bypass proxy LSR?<br>What =
about MPLS echo request initiating by proxy LSR is lost? How does the =
initiator<br>know the lost of MPLS echo request or reply?<br>What am I =
missing?<br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;&nbsp;LSP ping is designed with initiator =
initiating the request and maintaining the state for the same. All the =
transit or responding router do not maintain any state. Requiring Proxy =
LSRs to manage relaying the response would require it to maintain state =
for the entire transaction, including requiring the a timeout to be =
supplied by the initiator. This will require the change in architecture, =
which this draft is definitely not intending to =
do.<br><br><br>#2<br>Also it is not very clear to me how to use reply =
mode 5, although the draft says<br>"<br>If the Reply Mode of the message =
header is 1 or is 5 and no errors or<br>modifications have occurred no =
MPLS proxy ping reply is sent.<br>"<br>##RESP: &nbsp;There is no mention =
of reply mode 5. Which document are you referring to? The document =
refers only to mode 1, where, no reply SHOULD be sent for that =
mode.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If the Reply Mode of the Proxy Request =
message header is "1 - do not<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;reply", no MPLS proxy =
ping reply is sent. &nbsp;Otherwise an MPLS =
proxy<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ping reply message or MPLS echo request =
should be sent as described<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;below.<br><br>#3<br>It =
looks to me if no MPLS proxy ping rely needs to be sent, why define =
reply mode 5?<br>###RESP: &nbsp;No mention of reply mode 5. If you are =
referring to reply mode 1, the question is for RFC4379. All I can say =
is, it is there to check unidirectional errors.<br><br>#4<br>Also there =
are a lot of nits and typos that need to be fixed,<br>s/ limiting the =
the number/ limiting the number<br>s/ motivaton/ motivation<br>s/ and =
and all autho-rization/ and all authorization<br>s/ Pprocedures/ =
Procedures<br>s/ sub-objexts/ sub-objects<br>s/ modificatons =
/modifications<br>s/ decribed/ described<br>s/ =
assigments/assignments<br><br>##RESP: Ack<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: =
&nbsp;Issue resolved.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>#5<br>In section =
5.2, there is no definition of reply to address field, I think it should =
be defined as initiator address<br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;This is the address =
the echo reply should be sent to, &nbsp;most likely the initiator, but =
could be something else. We will add text for the =
field.<br><br>#6<br>For Downstream Mapping objects, it is better to add =
a reference to RFC4379.<br>The references [McstPing] [mLDP] are now =
outdated and need to be updated to the corresponding RFC.<br>##RESP - =
Ack. Will add references.<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: Changed all =
references of mDP to =93Label Distribution Protocol Extensions for =
Point-to-Multipoint and Multipoint-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths =
[RFC 6388]<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>Regards!<br>-Qin<br><br><br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><b=
r><br>2) =46rom Mach Chen<br><br>Hi Authors,<br><br>I just reviewed the =
draft, here are my comments, hope this help.<br><br>General =
comments:<br>It would be better if you could adjust the structure of the =
draft to put Section 3 behind Section 5. Then the reader will not need =
to check definitions of the Messages and TLVs in the back and then =
return back keep reading the document.<br><br>##RESP - I feel it is good =
to have description before the actual format definition. Either case, =
one has to go back and forth to understand completely. Is there any hard =
preference to your suggestion?<br><br>Specific comments:<br><br><br>1. =
Section 2<br><br>If the source address of the MPLS echo request is not =
to be<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set to the Proxy Request source address, the =
initiator must include a<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reply-to Address TLV =
containing the source address to use in the =
MPLS<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;echo request.<br><br>Why we need the Reply-to =
Address TLV? Which address will be included in the Reply-to Address TLV? =
If the address is neither the initiror or the proxy LSR, this may import =
some security isses?<br><br>##RESP: We added this TLV for a reason, =
which at that time, was needed. =46rom what we see now, the requestor IP =
will be used. Hence, this TLV will be removed.<br><br>2. Section =
3.1<br><br>2.1<br>"The message MUST contain a Target FEC Stack that =
describes the FEC<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;being tested. &nbsp;The topmost =
FEC in the target FEC stack is used at the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Proxy =
LSR to lookup the MPLS label stack that will be used =
to<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;encapsulate the MPLS echo request =
packet.<br>"<br>Seems that it only needs to carry the topmost FEC, and =
no need to carry other FECs. And even if carried, it does not make =
sense. Right?<br><br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;reused existing target fec stack, =
&nbsp;don=92t want to restrict to topmost FEC in case there are future =
uses.<br><br><br>2.2<br>s /MPLS Proxy Ping message/MPLS proxy ping =
request message, need to look through the document to make them =
consistent.<br>##RESP - Ack.<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: &nbsp;One =
occurrence found in section 3.1, second paragraph, Also went through the =
entire document and changed all occurrences of Proxy Request/Reply, =
&nbsp;MPLS Proxy Ping/Proxy Reply, etc to =93MPLS proxy ping request=94 =
and =93MPLS proxy ping reply=94.<br><br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br><br>3. Section 3.1 the sixth paragraph:<br>"The Proxy =
Request reply mode is set with one of the reply =
modes<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;defined in [RFC4379] as =
appropriate."<br><br>Is the reply mode here referred to the reply mode =
of the MPLS proxy request, or the reply mode of the Proxy Echo =
Parameter. I think it's the former, right?<br><br>And section 5.1 =
said:<br>"The MPLS Proxy Echo request echo header's Reply Mode should be =
set to "Reply with Proxy Info"."<br><br>Seems they are =
self-contradictory here.<br><br>##RESP - Not really. Sec 3 is describing =
the reply mode should use one of the modes defined in RFC4379. While Sec =
5.1 is talking about the request to query info from proxy LSR.<br><br>4. =
Section 3.1 the last second paragraph:<br><br>s =
/DDSMAP)/(DDSMAP)<br><br>##RESP - Ack<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: =
Found, changed =93DDSMAP)=94 -&gt; =93(DDMAP)=94<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>5. Section 3.2, in the middle of the fourth =
paragraph.<br><br>"Other filters on FECs or MPLS echo request contents =
MAY be applied."<br><br><br>For a Proxy LSR, it will not receive any =
MPLS echo request, should it be the MPLS proxy ping request =
here?<br><br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;The sentence is talking about proxy LSR =
sending MPLS echo request, not receiving.<br><br>6. Section =
3.2.1<br><br>6.1 In the middle of third paragraph:<br><br>"If the Proxy =
LSR is a Budnode but not<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;requested to return a =
Proxy reply, the Proxy LSR should send packets<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to =
the downstream neighbors (no Echo reply is sent to the =
Proxy<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Initiator to indicate that the Proxy LSR is =
an egress).<br>"<br><br>What packets will be sent to the downstream =
neighbors?<br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;=93MPLS Echo =
Request=94<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: &nbsp;Updated from =93send =
packets=94 to =93send MPLS Echo Request packets=94<br>###VLIM: =
&nbsp;Update all occurrences of Proxy Reply, to MPLS proxy ping =
reply,<br>###VLIM: &nbsp;Update all occurrences of "MPLS echo request", =
to "MPLS Echo Request"<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>6.2<br>If there =
is no DS/DDMAPs returned, how does the initiator determine the proxy LSR =
is budnode or egress?<br><br>##RESP: wanted to have the same behavior =
when injecting a LSP Ping at an egress. &nbsp;When we ping from a bud =
node, &nbsp;if we &nbsp;don=92t typically get an echo reply from =
ourselves, &nbsp;so we wanted to provide the ability for the Proxy =
requester to decide whether they want a proxy reply to by send back in =
response to a proxy request. &nbsp;is_egress return code used to =
indicate proxy lsr also an egress.<br><br><br><br>6.3 Last paragraph, =
last sentence<br><br>s / M2MP leaf /MP2MP leaf<br><br>##RESP - =
ack<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: &nbsp;Updated<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>7. Section 3.2.4.1<br><br>7.1 What's is "base MPLS =
echo request"? I suggest to remove the "base" here.<br><br>##RESP: Seems =
fine to remove.<br></blockquote>###VLIM: &nbsp;4 occurrences found, =
&nbsp;=93base=94 removed.<br><br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>7.2<br><br>"If the Explicit Differentiated Services =
Code Point (DSCP) flag is<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set, the Requested DSCP =
byte is examined. &nbsp;If the setting is<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;permitted =
then the DSCP byte of the IP header of the MPLS =
Echo<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Request message is set to that value. &nbsp;If =
the Proxy LSR does not<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;permit explicit control for =
the DSCP byte, the MPLS Proxy Echo<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Parameters with =
the Explicit DSCP flag cleared MUST be included =
in<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;any MPLS proxy ping reply message to indicate =
why an Echo Request was<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;not sent. &nbsp;The return =
code MUST be set to &lt;tba&gt;, "Proxy =
ping<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;parameters need to be modified". &nbsp;If the =
Explicit DSCP flag is not<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set, the Proxy LSR should =
set the Echo Request DSCP settings to the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;value =
normally used to source LSP ping packets."<br><br>I am not sure whether =
this is the right choice to let the Proxy LSR to control whether the =
DSCP is permitted or not. IMO, this permission should be controlled by =
the Receiver or Responder.<br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;This section is =
referring to the DSCP settings in the MPLS echo request label stack and =
ip header not the reply dscp. &nbsp;&nbsp;When initiating LSP pings, the =
sender of the lsp ping controls this setting, so it was felt that it be =
valuable to allow the sender of the proxy request to control this =
subject to restrictions imposed at the Proxy LSR.<br><br><br><br>8. =
&nbsp;Section 3.2.4.2<br><br>"If any additional labels are =
pushed<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;onto the stack, their TTLs are set to =
255."<br><br>what's this case? Can you clarify more about the =
case?<br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;Don=92t want to requester have have control =
of the ttls for tunnels not relevant to the FEC being =
tested.<br></blockquote>###VLIM: &nbsp;Sam worked with Mach to address =
his concern with wording in this section.<br><br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>9. Section 4.2<br>"<br>&nbsp;The MPLS proxy ping =
request message MAY contain the =
following<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;TLVs:<br>"<br>You may also need to =
contain the Type 21 and 22 TLV.<br><br>##RESP: &nbsp;okay, we=92ll add =
these tlv=92s to the list of tlv=92s to be included in the proxy request =
for including into the echo requests.<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: =
Added<br>21 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reply Path =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[RFC7110]<br>22 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reply TC =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[RFC7110]<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>10.Section =
5.1<br><br>s /MPLS Proxy Echo Request message /MPLS proxy ping request =
message, same as the above comment 2.2<br>##RESP - =
ack<br></blockquote><br>###VLIM: &nbsp;&nbsp;Changed.<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br><br>Best =
regards,<br>Mach<br><br>Cheers<br>-sam<br><br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: mpls [<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of Loa Andersson<br>Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 1:03 =
PM<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>;=
 <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-m=
pls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org</a><br>Subject: [mpls] Working group =
last call on draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping<br><br>Working =
Group,<br><br>this is to start a two week working group last call =
on<br>draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-01.txt<br><br>Please send your =
comments to working group mailing lists (<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>).<br><br>We will do an =
IPR poll on this document in parallel thee wglc.<br><br>There are three =
IPRs disclosures that relates to this document.<br><br>The working group =
last call will end Friday January 20, 2914.<br><br>/Loa<br>mpls wg =
co-chair<br><br>--<br><br><br>Loa Andersson =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com">loa@mail01.huawei.com</a><br>Senior =
MPLS Expert =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a><br>Huawei Technologies =
(consultant) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;phone: +46 739 81 21 =
64<br>_______________________________________________<br>mpls mailing =
list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/mpls<br></blockquote></blockquote>.</blockquote></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Dear all,
I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid issues to b=
e resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the authors w=
ent about to address them.


1.    Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched Path (LSP=
) Ping.

Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is for wa=
nting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the sender of the=
 echo request just wanted to use the return path of the tested LSP. I do no=
t see this as a strong justification. In many cases, the LSP is unidirectio=
nal or the responder node is a transit LSR and may not be able to inject th=
e reply in the reverse direction of that LSP. In that case, I can see that =
providing a specific return LSP which is different than the tested LSP is r=
equired and the Reply Path TLV is needed.

Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would suggest =
to relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request includes reply =
mode 5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the Reply Path TLV is not included, t=
he responder node will interpret this as an implicit request to reply via t=
he reverse direction of the tested LSP.



2.    Reply Mode Order TLV

I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply modes =
which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be concurrently used=
 with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply mode 3 is not very po=
pular as far as I know. Also, most applications would reply with mode 2 if =
the requested mode is not available. So, I can't see how this new TLV will =
be useful in practice.

Regards,
Mustapha.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I was asked to review this draft and I th=
ink it describes valid issues to be resolved. I however have a couple of co=
mments about the way the authors went about to address them.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Pat=
h Specified Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Section 4.1 argues the reason why =
a separate reply mode is needed is for wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV d=
efined in RFC 7110 when the sender of the echo request just
 wanted to use the return path of the tested LSP. I do not see this as a st=
rong justification. In many cases, the LSP is unidirectional or the respond=
er node is a transit LSR and may not be able to inject the reply in the rev=
erse direction of that LSP. In that
 case, I can see that providing a specific return LSP which is different th=
an the tested LSP is required and the Reply Path TLV is needed.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Assuming this is still an importan=
t issue for the authors, I would suggest to relax the rule in RFC 7110 such=
 that if the echo request includes reply mode 5 &#8220;Reply via
 Specified Path&#8221; and the Reply Path TLV is not included, the responde=
r node will interpret this as an implicit request to reply via the reverse =
direction of the tested LSP.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Reply Mode Order TLV<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I am not convinced of the need for=
 this TLV. There is not much reply modes which are usable today together. O=
nly reply mode 2 can be concurrently used with reply mode
 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply mode 3 is not very popular as far as =
I know. Also, most applications would reply with mode 2 if the requested mo=
de is not available. So, I can&#8217;t see how this new TLV will be useful =
in practice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Mustapha.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Thu Jul  3 16:16:25 2014
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D946C86F6@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:16:16 -0700
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References: <b38720c603764748b2c16aae7de2de8d@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D946A9035@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D946C86F6@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/GEXwyFl-nZr70dscNkvgrcfRUI4
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Authors,

I too raised the below points highlighted by Mustapha, earlier. In =
addition I have a more high-level question.

In the Introduction it says=20
"However, it is becoming increasingly difficult for an initiator to
   select a valid return path to encode in the MPLS LSP echo request
   packets.  If the initiator does not select a valid return path, the
   MPLS LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator.  This results
   in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute operation.  In an
   effort to minimize such false failures, different implementations
   have chosen different default return path encoding for different LSP
   types and LSP operations.  The problem with implementations having
   different default return path encoding is that the MPLS echo reply
   will not work in many cases, and the default value may not be the
   preferred choice by the operators.
"

The problems I have is regarding the need for this ID are
1. Can we solve the problem without the need for this ID/solution?=20
Answer is yes, albeit it takes one or more requests. If you say, it is =
solving a problem which was couldn=92t be solved earlier, I would like =
to see.
2. The proposal still cannot identify the problem even with multiple =
reply modes. If reply cannot be received, adding more reply types may =
not solve the issue.
3. This proposed solution works only if the problem is on the replying =
node. But if the problem is on the transit node of the reply path, this =
solution will not work either.
4. As I mentioned earlier, for this new proposal to work effectively, =
the responding device has to support this new TLV. Which means, whole of =
the network has to support at one point of time of the other.
5. With the proposed solution, to determine the problem, one also needs =
to read the =91reply mode=92 used by the replying device. IOW, return =
code + reply mode used will actually define the behavior. This changes =
the definition of RFC4379.=20
6. Specific to the text above, I do not agree that the problem is due to =
implementation. It is the user choice which ever reply mode he/she wants =
to use. If using CLI, could chose different reply mode. If it is =
application, he/she could select it there.=20

The point is, why to introduce this optimization solution, where one =
could solve the problem without any of this new upgrade?
Alternatively, for ex: If the reply was being received with reply mode =
=915, but now I don=92t receive it now, send a new request with reply =
mode 1.=20
This is more simple than the proposed solution without needing any =
change.
I=92d be open to hearing the strong reason, this ID is solving, which =
couldn=92t be solved with RFC4379.

cheers
-sam


On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) =
<mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
> I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid issues =
to be resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the =
authors went about to address them.
> =20
> 1.    Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched Path =
(LSP) Ping.
> Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is =
for wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the =
sender of the echo request just wanted to use the return path of the =
tested LSP. I do not see this as a strong justification. In many cases, =
the LSP is unidirectional or the responder node is a transit LSR and may =
not be able to inject the reply in the reverse direction of that LSP. In =
that case, I can see that providing a specific return LSP which is =
different than the tested LSP is required and the Reply Path TLV is =
needed.
> Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would =
suggest to relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request =
includes reply mode 5 =93Reply via Specified Path=94 and the Reply Path =
TLV is not included, the responder node will interpret this as an =
implicit request to reply via the reverse direction of the tested LSP.
> =20
> 2.    Reply Mode Order TLV
> I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply =
modes which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be =
concurrently used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply =
mode 3 is not very popular as far as I know. Also, most applications =
would reply with mode 2 if the requested mode is not available. So, I =
can=92t see how this new TLV will be useful in practice.
> =20
> Regards,
> Mustapha.
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


--Apple-Mail=_F446718F-1F29-456C-B3D4-58739C0962CE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;">Authors,<div><br></div><div>I too raised the below =
points highlighted by Mustapha, earlier. In addition I have a more =
high-level question.</div><div><br></div><div>In the Introduction it =
says&nbsp;</div><div>"<span style=3D"font-size: 13px; line-height: =
1.2em;">However, it is becoming increasingly difficult for an initiator =
to</span></div><pre style=3D"line-height: 1.2em; margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; font-size: 13px;">   select a valid return path to =
encode in the MPLS LSP echo request
   packets.  If the initiator does not select a valid return path, the
   MPLS LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator.  This results
   in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute operation.  In an
   effort to minimize such false failures, different implementations
   have chosen different default return path encoding for different LSP
   types and LSP operations.  The problem with implementations having
   different default return path encoding is that the MPLS echo reply
   will not work in many cases, and the default value may not be the
   preferred choice by the =
operators.</pre><div>"</div><div><br></div><div>The problems I have is =
regarding the need for this ID are</div><div>1. Can we solve the problem =
without the need for this ID/solution?&nbsp;</div><div>Answer is yes, =
albeit it takes one or more requests. If you say, it is solving a =
problem which was couldn=92t be solved earlier, I would like to =
see.</div><div>2. The proposal still cannot identify the problem even =
with multiple reply modes. If reply cannot be received, adding more =
reply types may not solve the issue.</div><div>3. This proposed solution =
works only if the problem is on the replying node. But if the problem is =
on the transit node of the reply path, this solution will not work =
either.</div><div>4. As I mentioned earlier, for this new proposal to =
work effectively, the responding device has to support this new TLV. =
Which means, whole of the network has to support at one point of time of =
the other.</div><div>5. With the proposed solution, to determine the =
problem, one also needs to read the =91reply mode=92 used by the =
replying device. IOW, return code + reply mode used will actually define =
the behavior. This changes the definition of RFC4379.&nbsp;</div><div>6. =
Specific to the text above, I do not agree that the problem is due to =
implementation. It is the user choice which ever reply mode he/she wants =
to use. If using CLI, could chose different reply mode. If it is =
application, he/she could select it =
there.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The point is, why to introduce =
this optimization solution, where one could solve the problem without =
any of this new upgrade?</div><div>Alternatively, for ex: If the reply =
was being received with reply mode =915, but now I don=92t receive it =
now, send a new request with reply mode 1.&nbsp;</div><div>This is more =
simple than the proposed solution without needing any =
change.</div><div>I=92d be open to hearing the strong reason, this ID is =
solving, which couldn=92t be solved with =
RFC4379.</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>-sam</div><div><br></di=
v><div><br><div><div>On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Aissaoui, Mustapha =
(Mustapha) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com">mustapha.aissaoui@alc=
atel-lucent.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I was asked =
to review this draft and I think it describes valid issues to be =
resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the authors =
went about to address them.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;"><span>1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Relation to =
RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched Path (LSP) =
Ping.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Section 4.1 =
argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is for wanting to =
omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the sender of the echo =
request just wanted to use the return path of the tested LSP. I do not =
see this as a strong justification. In many cases, the LSP is =
unidirectional or the responder node is a transit LSR and may not be =
able to inject the reply in the reverse direction of that LSP. In that =
case, I can see that providing a specific return LSP which is different =
than the tested LSP is required and the Reply Path TLV is =
needed.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, =
I would suggest to relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo =
request includes reply mode 5 =93Reply via Specified Path=94 and the =
Reply Path TLV is not included, the responder node will interpret this =
as an implicit request to reply via the reverse direction of the tested =
LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;"><span>2.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Reply Mode =
Order TLV<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I am not =
convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply modes which =
are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be concurrently used =
with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply mode 3 is not very =
popular as far as I know. Also, most applications would reply with mode =
2 if the requested mode is not available. So, I can=92t see how this new =
TLV will be useful in practice.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Mustapha.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div>______________________=
_________________________<br>mpls mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">mpls@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a></div></blockquo=
te></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: Jeong Ryoo <ryoo@etri.re.kr>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hello Mustapha,

Thank you for reviewing this document!

Let me provide my individual reply (not speaking for all the authors).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) [mailto:mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 6:48 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Aissaoui, Mustapha
> (Mustapha); Ross Callon; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang;
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple-02
>=20
> Dear all,
> I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid issues to=
 be
> resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the authors
> went about to address them.
>=20
> 1. Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched Path (LSP)
> Ping.
> Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is for
> wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the sender of
> the echo request just wanted to use the return path of the tested LSP. I =
do
> not see this as a strong justification. In many cases, the LSP is unidire=
ctional
> or the responder node is a transit LSR and may not be able to inject the =
reply
> in the reverse direction of that LSP. In that case, I can see that provid=
ing a
> specific return LSP which is different than the tested LSP is required an=
d the
> Reply Path TLV is needed.
>=20
> Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would sugges=
t to
> relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request includes reply m=
ode
> 5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the Reply Path TLV is not included, the
> responder node will interpret this as an implicit request to reply via th=
e
> reverse direction of the tested LSP.

If that's more desired by the WG, I have no objection to that as long as it=
 doesn't require a TLV to indicate reverse LSP :)

>=20
> 2. Reply Mode Order TLV
> I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply mode=
s
> which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be concurrently
> used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply mode 3 is not
> very popular as far as I know. Also, most applications would reply with
> mode 2 if the requested mode is not available. So, I can't see how this n=
ew
> TLV will be useful in practice.

You are absolutely correct, not all combinations of the reply modes in the =
Reply Mode TLV is realistic.

      Value    Meaning
      -----    -------
          1    Do not reply
          2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
          3    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet with Router Alert
          4    Reply via application level control channel
          5    Reply via Specified Path=20
          6    Reply via reverse LSP=20

Ping is simple, but let's talk about traceroute.

I can imagine following example usage:

(1) User prefers IP return path:

If (LSP_w_reverse_LSP) {
    ReplyModeTLV{2, 6}
} else if (LSP_w_control_channel) {
    ReplyModeTLV{2, 4}
} else {
    ReplyMode{2}
}

(2) User does not prefer IP return path:

If (LSP_w_reverse_LSP) {
    ReplyModeTLV{6, 2}
} else if (LSP_w_control_channel) {
    ReplyModeTLV{4, 2}
} else {
    ReplyMode{2}
}

Or user can specify a preference to be used for all LSP types (those who wa=
nts to make sure response is received back one way or another).

(3) User prefers IP return path:

If (all_LSP_types) {
    ReplyModeTLV{2, 6, 4}
} else {
    ReplyMode{2}
}

(4) User does not prefer IP return path:

If (all_LSP_types) {
    ReplyModeTLV{4, 6, 2}
} else {
    ReplyMode{2}
}

I hope this answers your comments/concerns a bit :)

Thanks!

-Nobo

>=20
> Regards,
> Mustapha.


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 01:25:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi again Sam :)

Please see in-line.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 7:16 PM
> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-rep=
ly-
> mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; Ross Callon; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> mode-simple-02
>=20
> Authors,
>=20
> I too raised the below points highlighted by Mustapha, earlier. In additi=
on I
> have a more high-level question.
>=20
> In the Introduction it says
> "However, it is becoming increasingly difficult for an initiator to
>    select a valid return path to encode in the MPLS LSP echo request
>    packets.  If the initiator does not select a valid return path, the
>    MPLS LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator.  This results
>    in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute operation.  In an
>    effort to minimize such false failures, different implementations
>    have chosen different default return path encoding for different LSP
>    types and LSP operations.  The problem with implementations having
>    different default return path encoding is that the MPLS echo reply
>    will not work in many cases, and the default value may not be the
>    preferred choice by the operators.
> "
>=20
> The problems I have is regarding the need for this ID are 1. Can we solve=
 the
> problem without the need for this ID/solution? Answer is yes, albeit it t=
akes
> one or more requests. If you say, it is solving a problem which was could=
n't
> be solved earlier, I would like to see.

The problem can be addressed with vendors iterating the operation with mult=
iple Return Paths when the previous try didn't work. And exact behavior bei=
ng well document and operators fully understanding potentially different be=
havior per LSP types, per ping/trace operation type and deviating behaviors=
 across multiple vendors/products. If you implement this, with user prefere=
nce knob (yes some prefers IP return path while other do not prefer IP retu=
rn path), imagine yourself trying to explain to users how things work, and =
imagine yourself trying to explain why vendors/products behave differently.=
 I sure wouldn't want to :) It's indeed not a problem that cannot be solved=
, but it's an aspect of LSP Ping/Trace that can be simplified in terms of i=
mplementations and especially operations!

> 2. The proposal still cannot identify the problem even with multiple repl=
y
> modes. If reply cannot be received, adding more reply types may not solve
> the issue.

That is not what the document is trying to achieve.

> 3. This proposed solution works only if the problem is on the replying no=
de.
> But if the problem is on the transit node of the reply path, this solutio=
n will
> not work either.

Again, that is not what the document is trying to achieve.

> 4. As I mentioned earlier, for this new proposal to work effectively, the
> responding device has to support this new TLV. Which means, whole of the
> network has to support at one point of time of the other.

Correct, those transit LSRs not understanding this procedure will simply us=
e the Reply Mode field in the MPLS echo request.

> 5. With the proposed solution, to determine the problem, one also needs t=
o
> read the 'reply mode' used by the replying device. IOW, return code + rep=
ly
> mode used will actually define the behavior. This changes the definition =
of
> RFC4379. 6. Specific to the text above, I do not agree that the problem i=
s due
> to implementation. It is the user choice which ever reply mode he/she
> wants to use. If using CLI, could chose different reply mode. If it is
> application, he/she could select it there.

User prefers control channel for operations on TP tunnels.

traceroute mpls ... [default reply mode 4 used]

Timeout
Timeout
Timeout
Timeout
...
Success

Operator: What the heck!

<20 minutes later>

Operator: Oh man, there is no problem! This is tunnel 100 and is not 200, i=
t's not co-routed!

Just an example :)

If possible (and yes it is), the tool should provide better experience to u=
sers.

>=20
> The point is, why to introduce this optimization solution, where one coul=
d
> solve the problem without any of this new upgrade?

Well, this is my 3rd or 4th attempt to convince you on this topic, so I'll =
skip this question :)

> Alternatively, for ex: If the reply was being received with reply mode '5=
, but
> now I don't receive it now, send a new request with reply mode 1. This is
> more simple than the proposed solution without needing any change.
> I'd be open to hearing the strong reason, this ID is solving, which could=
n't be
> solved with RFC4379.

Why would you send reply mode 1 (Do no reply) if reply mode 5 (Reply via Sp=
ecified Path) starts timing out? That sounds a very silly, but maybe I'm mi=
ssing something.

Thanks!

-Nobo
=20
>=20
> cheers
> -sam
>=20
>=20
> On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
> <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Dear all,
> I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid issues to=
 be
> resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the authors
> went about to address them.
>=20
> 1.=A0=A0=A0=A0Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched=
 Path (LSP)
> Ping.
> Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is for
> wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the sender of
> the echo request just wanted to use the return path of the tested LSP. I =
do
> not see this as a strong justification. In many cases, the LSP is unidire=
ctional
> or the responder node is a transit LSR and may not be able to inject the =
reply
> in the reverse direction of that LSP. In that case, I can see that provid=
ing a
> specific return LSP which is different than the tested LSP is required an=
d the
> Reply Path TLV is needed.
> Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would sugges=
t to
> relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request includes reply m=
ode
> 5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the Reply Path TLV is not included, the
> responder node will interpret this as an implicit request to reply via th=
e
> reverse direction of the tested LSP.
>=20
> 2.=A0=A0=A0=A0Reply Mode Order TLV
> I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply mode=
s
> which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be concurrently
> used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply mode 3 is not
> very popular as far as I know. Also, most applications would reply with
> mode 2 if the requested mode is not available. So, I can't see how this n=
ew
> TLV will be useful in practice.
>=20
> Regards,
> Mustapha.
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Nobo,

thanks again :D
Inline for my comments.
On Jul 3, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi again Sam :)
>=20
> Please see in-line.
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin
>> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 7:16 PM
>> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
>> mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; Ross Callon; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
>> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
>> mode-simple-02
>>=20
>> Authors,
>>=20
>> I too raised the below points highlighted by Mustapha, earlier. In =
addition I
>> have a more high-level question.
>>=20
>> In the Introduction it says
>> "However, it is becoming increasingly difficult for an initiator to
>>   select a valid return path to encode in the MPLS LSP echo request
>>   packets.  If the initiator does not select a valid return path, the
>>   MPLS LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator.  This =
results
>>   in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute operation.  In =
an
>>   effort to minimize such false failures, different implementations
>>   have chosen different default return path encoding for different =
LSP
>>   types and LSP operations.  The problem with implementations having
>>   different default return path encoding is that the MPLS echo reply
>>   will not work in many cases, and the default value may not be the
>>   preferred choice by the operators.
>> "
>>=20
>> The problems I have is regarding the need for this ID are 1. Can we =
solve the
>> problem without the need for this ID/solution? Answer is yes, albeit =
it takes
>> one or more requests. If you say, it is solving a problem which was =
couldn't
>> be solved earlier, I would like to see.
>=20
> The problem can be addressed with vendors iterating the operation with =
multiple Return Paths when the previous try didn't work.
> And exact behavior being well document and operators fully =
understanding potentially different behavior per LSP types, per =
ping/trace operation type and deviating behaviors across multiple =
vendors/products. If you implement this, with user preference knob (yes =
some prefers IP return path while other do not prefer IP return path), =
imagine yourself trying to explain to users how things work, and imagine =
yourself trying to explain why vendors/products behave differently. I =
sure wouldn't want to :) It's indeed not a problem that cannot be =
solved, but it's an aspect of LSP Ping/Trace that can be simplified in =
terms of implementations and especially operations!
%sam - You say it didn=92t work. Could you provide info why it didn=92t =
work? In the last sentence you say it simplifies. So does it simplify or =
is it fixing something which was not working earlier?
LSP ping itself is full of knobs and it has to be explained. You could =
find that in every vendors documentation and it is nothing knew. I know =
it because I have authored much of the documentation.
>=20
>> 2. The proposal still cannot identify the problem even with multiple =
reply
>> modes. If reply cannot be received, adding more reply types may not =
solve
>> the issue.
>=20
> That is not what the document is trying to achieve.
%sam - ok. we agree.
>=20
>> 3. This proposed solution works only if the problem is on the =
replying node.
>> But if the problem is on the transit node of the reply path, this =
solution will
>> not work either.
>=20
> Again, that is not what the document is trying to achieve.
%sam - so, we agree that this enhancement is for replying node only.
>=20
>> 4. As I mentioned earlier, for this new proposal to work effectively, =
the
>> responding device has to support this new TLV. Which means, whole of =
the
>> network has to support at one point of time of the other.
>=20
> Correct, those transit LSRs not understanding this procedure will =
simply use the Reply Mode field in the MPLS echo request.
%sam - nod.
>=20
>> 5. With the proposed solution, to determine the problem, one also =
needs to
>> read the 'reply mode' used by the replying device. IOW, return code + =
reply
>> mode used will actually define the behavior. This changes the =
definition of
>> RFC4379. 6. Specific to the text above, I do not agree that the =
problem is due
>> to implementation. It is the user choice which ever reply mode he/she
>> wants to use. If using CLI, could chose different reply mode. If it =
is
>> application, he/she could select it there.
>=20
> User prefers control channel for operations on TP tunnels.
>=20
> traceroute mpls ... [default reply mode 4 used]
>=20
> Timeout
> Timeout
> Timeout
> Timeout
> ...
> Success
>=20
> Operator: What the heck!
>=20
> <20 minutes later>
>=20
> Operator: Oh man, there is no problem! This is tunnel 100 and is not =
200, it's not co-routed!
>=20
> Just an example :)
>=20
> If possible (and yes it is), the tool should provide better experience =
to users.
Here is a counter example and response to your example, below.

traceroute mpls =85[new tlv - reply mode 5, 2] /* reply mode 5 or 4, I =
am just illustrating with 5 here */

success
success
success
success

1hr later, oh shoot, return path is broken but I am getting success =
because replies are in the ip path and not on reverse LSP.

this is much more harmful than not receiving reply.

And to your example, few very important points I=92d like to make
1. getting a timeout is not an issue, when lsp ping command is =
incorrectly issued. Infact it is correct. No one can set that right, =
when user issues wrong command.
2. What I fail to understand is, how does your proposed solution make it =
right? Just because you get the reply all is well? what if the return =
path is indeed broken (as illustrated in my example above), you will not =
be able to infer something is wrong, (strictly interpreting RFC4379) =
because return code received is =913/8/5/6=92.=20
3. Specific to your example, when you perform trace on non-corouted TP =
tunnels, timeout SHOULD be returned when there is no return lsp for in =
band reply from p1 and p2, because the return path chosen is =91reply =
mode 4=92. In order to give =91better experience=92 what command will =
you issue and how different the o/p will be, assuming there is no ip on =
intermediate nodes.(p1, p2,p3,p4) Sample topology below

               /=97=97=97=97P1=97=97P2=97=97=97\
PE1=97=97=97                                         PE2
              \=97=97=97=97P3=97=97P4--=97=97-/

PE1->PE2 lsp is via p1, p2
PE2->PE1 lsp is via p4,p3
>=20
>>=20
>> The point is, why to introduce this optimization solution, where one =
could
>> solve the problem without any of this new upgrade?
>=20
> Well, this is my 3rd or 4th attempt to convince you on this topic, so =
I'll skip this question :)
%sam - That is fine. Point remains though :D
>=20
>> Alternatively, for ex: If the reply was being received with reply =
mode '5, but
>> now I don't receive it now, send a new request with reply mode 1. =
This is
>> more simple than the proposed solution without needing any change.
>> I'd be open to hearing the strong reason, this ID is solving, which =
couldn't be
>> solved with RFC4379.
>=20
> Why would you send reply mode 1 (Do no reply) if reply mode 5 (Reply =
via Specified Path) starts timing out? That sounds a very silly, but =
maybe I'm missing something.
typo. Meant to say reply mode 2.=20
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
>>=20
>> cheers
>> -sam
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
>> <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> Dear all,
>> I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid =
issues to be
>> resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the =
authors
>> went about to address them.
>>=20
>> 1.    Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched =
Path (LSP)
>> Ping.
>> Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is =
for
>> wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the =
sender of
>> the echo request just wanted to use the return path of the tested =
LSP. I do
>> not see this as a strong justification. In many cases, the LSP is =
unidirectional
>> or the responder node is a transit LSR and may not be able to inject =
the reply
>> in the reverse direction of that LSP. In that case, I can see that =
providing a
>> specific return LSP which is different than the tested LSP is =
required and the
>> Reply Path TLV is needed.
>> Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would =
suggest to
>> relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request includes =
reply mode
>> 5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the Reply Path TLV is not included, =
the
>> responder node will interpret this as an implicit request to reply =
via the
>> reverse direction of the tested LSP.
>>=20
>> 2.    Reply Mode Order TLV
>> I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply =
modes
>> which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be =
concurrently
>> used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply mode 3 is =
not
>> very popular as far as I know. Also, most applications would reply =
with
>> mode 2 if the requested mode is not available. So, I can't see how =
this new
>> TLV will be useful in practice.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Mustapha.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


--Apple-Mail=_5BB00B7E-A319-4B70-B905-61E09A7169C7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Nobo,<div><br></div><div>thanks again :D</div><div>Inline for my =
comments.<br><div><div>On Jul 3, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nobo@cisco.com">nobo@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Hi again Sam :)<br><br>Please see =
in-line.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: mpls [<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin<br>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 7:16 PM<br>To: =
Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)<br>Cc:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) =
Zhang; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:mode-simple@tools.ietf.org">mode-simple@tools.ietf.org</a>;=
 Ross Callon;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>;=
<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com">jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com<=
/a><br>Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-<br>mode-simple-02<br><br>Authors,<br><br>=
I too raised the below points highlighted by Mustapha, earlier. In =
addition I<br>have a more high-level question.<br><br>In the =
Introduction it says<br>"However, it is becoming increasingly difficult =
for an initiator to<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;select a valid return path to encode =
in the MPLS LSP echo request<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;packets. &nbsp;If the =
initiator does not select a valid return path, the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;MPLS =
LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator. &nbsp;This =
results<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and =
Traceroute operation. &nbsp;In an<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;effort to minimize such =
false failures, different implementations<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;have chosen =
different default return path encoding for different =
LSP<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;types and LSP operations. &nbsp;The problem with =
implementations having<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;different default return path =
encoding is that the MPLS echo reply<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;will not work in =
many cases, and the default value may not be =
the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;preferred choice by the operators.<br>"<br><br>The =
problems I have is regarding the need for this ID are 1. Can we solve =
the<br>problem without the need for this ID/solution? Answer is yes, =
albeit it takes<br>one or more requests. If you say, it is solving a =
problem which was couldn't<br>be solved earlier, I would like to =
see.<br></blockquote><br>The problem can be addressed with vendors =
iterating the operation with multiple Return Paths when the previous try =
didn't work.</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">And exact behavior being well document =
and operators fully understanding potentially different behavior per LSP =
types, per ping/trace operation type and deviating behaviors across =
multiple vendors/products. If you implement this, with user preference =
knob (yes some prefers IP return path while other do not prefer IP =
return path), imagine yourself trying to explain to users how things =
work, and imagine yourself trying to explain why vendors/products behave =
differently. I sure wouldn't want to :) It's indeed not a problem that =
cannot be solved, but it's an aspect of LSP Ping/Trace that can be =
simplified in terms of implementations and especially =
operations!<br></div></blockquote>%sam - You say it didn=92t work. Could =
you provide info why it didn=92t work? In the last sentence you say it =
simplifies. So does it simplify or is it fixing something which was not =
working earlier?</div><div>LSP ping itself is full of knobs and it has =
to be explained. You could find that in every vendors documentation and =
it is nothing knew. I know it because I have authored much of the =
documentation.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">2. The proposal still cannot =
identify the problem even with multiple reply<br>modes. If reply cannot =
be received, adding more reply types may not solve<br>the =
issue.<br></blockquote><br>That is not what the document is trying to =
achieve.<br></div></blockquote>%sam - ok. we agree.<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">3. =
This proposed solution works only if the problem is on the replying =
node.<br>But if the problem is on the transit node of the reply path, =
this solution will<br>not work either.<br></blockquote><br>Again, that =
is not what the document is trying to =
achieve.<br></div></blockquote>%sam - so, we agree that this enhancement =
is for replying node only.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">4. As I =
mentioned earlier, for this new proposal to work effectively, =
the<br>responding device has to support this new TLV. Which means, whole =
of the<br>network has to support at one point of time of the =
other.<br></blockquote><br>Correct, those transit LSRs not understanding =
this procedure will simply use the Reply Mode field in the MPLS echo =
request.<br></div></blockquote>%sam - nod.<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">5. =
With the proposed solution, to determine the problem, one also needs =
to<br>read the 'reply mode' used by the replying device. IOW, return =
code + reply<br>mode used will actually define the behavior. This =
changes the definition of<br>RFC4379. 6. Specific to the text above, I =
do not agree that the problem is due<br>to implementation. It is the =
user choice which ever reply mode he/she<br>wants to use. If using CLI, =
could chose different reply mode. If it is<br>application, he/she could =
select it there.<br></blockquote><br>User prefers control channel for =
operations on TP tunnels.<br><br>traceroute mpls ... [default reply mode =
4 =
used]<br><br>Timeout<br>Timeout<br>Timeout<br>Timeout<br>...<br>Success<br=
><br>Operator: What the heck!<br><br>&lt;20 minutes =
later&gt;<br><br>Operator: Oh man, there is no problem! This is tunnel =
100 and is not 200, it's not co-routed!<br><br>Just an example =
:)<br><br>If possible (and yes it is), the tool should provide better =
experience to users.<br></div></blockquote>Here is a counter example and =
response to your example, below.</div><div><br></div><div>traceroute =
mpls =85[new tlv - reply mode 5, 2] /* reply mode 5 or 4, I am just =
illustrating with 5 here =
*/</div><div><br></div><div>success</div><div>success</div><div>success</d=
iv><div>success</div><div><br></div><div>1hr later, oh shoot, return =
path is broken but I am getting success because replies are in the ip =
path and not on reverse LSP.</div><div><br></div><div>this is much more =
harmful than not receiving reply.</div><div><br></div><div>And to your =
example, few very important points I=92d like to make</div><div>1. =
getting a timeout is not an issue, when lsp ping command is incorrectly =
issued. Infact it is correct. No one can set that right, when user =
issues wrong command.</div><div>2. What I fail to understand is, how =
does your proposed solution make it right? Just because you get the =
reply all is well? what if the return path is indeed broken (as =
illustrated in my example above), you will not be able to infer =
something is wrong, (strictly interpreting RFC4379) because return code =
received is =913/8/5/6=92.&nbsp;</div><div>3. Specific to your example, =
when you perform trace on non-corouted TP tunnels, timeout SHOULD be =
returned when there is no return lsp for in band reply from p1 and p2, =
because the return path chosen is =91reply mode 4=92. In order to give =
=91better experience=92 what command will you issue and how different =
the o/p will be, assuming there is no ip on intermediate nodes.(p1, =
p2,p3,p4) Sample topology below</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;/=97=97=97=97P1=97=97P2=97=97=97\</div><div>PE1=97=97=97 &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
PE2</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
\=97=97=97=97P3=97=97P4--=97=97-/</div><div><br></div><div>PE1-&gt;PE2 =
lsp is via p1, p2</div><div>PE2-&gt;PE1 lsp is via p4,p3<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>The point is, why to introduce this optimization =
solution, where one could<br>solve the problem without any of this new =
upgrade?<br></blockquote><br>Well, this is my 3rd or 4th attempt to =
convince you on this topic, so I'll skip this question =
:)<br></div></blockquote>%sam - That is fine. Point remains though =
:D<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Alternatively, for ex: If the reply =
was being received with reply mode '5, but<br>now I don't receive it =
now, send a new request with reply mode 1. This is<br>more simple than =
the proposed solution without needing any change.<br>I'd be open to =
hearing the strong reason, this ID is solving, which couldn't =
be<br>solved with RFC4379.<br></blockquote><br>Why would you send reply =
mode 1 (Do no reply) if reply mode 5 (Reply via Specified Path) starts =
timing out? That sounds a very silly, but maybe I'm missing =
something.<br></div></blockquote>typo. Meant to say reply mode =
2.&nbsp;<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br>Thanks!<br><br>-Nobo<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>cheers<br>-sam<br><br><br>On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:47 PM, =
Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)<br>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com">mustapha.aissaoui@alc=
atel-lucent.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br><br>Dear all,<br>I was asked to =
review this draft and I think it describes valid issues to =
be<br>resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the =
authors<br>went about to address =
them.<br><br>1.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Relation to RFC 7110 - Return =
Path Specified Label Switched Path (LSP)<br>Ping.<br>Section 4.1 argues =
the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is for<br>wanting to omit =
the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the sender of<br>the echo =
request just wanted to use the return path of the tested LSP. I =
do<br>not see this as a strong justification. In many cases, the LSP is =
unidirectional<br>or the responder node is a transit LSR and may not be =
able to inject the reply<br>in the reverse direction of that LSP. In =
that case, I can see that providing a<br>specific return LSP which is =
different than the tested LSP is required and the<br>Reply Path TLV is =
needed.<br>Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I =
would suggest to<br>relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo =
request includes reply mode<br>5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the =
Reply Path TLV is not included, the<br>responder node will interpret =
this as an implicit request to reply via the<br>reverse direction of the =
tested LSP.<br><br>2.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Reply Mode Order TLV<br>I =
am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply =
modes<br>which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be =
concurrently<br>used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. =
Reply mode 3 is not<br>very popular as far as I know. Also, most =
applications would reply with<br>mode 2 if the requested mode is not =
available. So, I can't see how this new<br>TLV will be useful in =
practice.<br><br>Regards,<br>Mustapha.<br>________________________________=
_______________<br>mpls mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/mpls</blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body>=
</html>=

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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-egress-protection-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Extensions to RSVP-TE for LSP Egress Local Protection
        Authors         : Huaimo Chen
                          Zhenbin Li
                          Ning So
                          Autumn Liu
                          Fengman Xu
                          Mehmet Toy
                          Lu Huang
                          Lei Liu
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-egress-protection-01.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2014-07-03

Abstract:
   This document describes extensions to Resource Reservation Protocol -
   Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) for locally protecting egress nodes of
   a Traffic Engineered (TE) Label Switched Path (LSP) in a Multi-
   Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-egress-protection/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-egress-protection-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-egress-protection-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Extensions to RSVP-TE for LSP Ingress Local Protection
        Authors         : Huaimo Chen
                          Raveendra Torvi
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-ingress-protection-01.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2014-07-03

Abstract:
   This document describes extensions to Resource Reservation Protocol -
   Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) for locally protecting the ingress node
   of a Traffic Engineered (TE) Label Switched Path (LSP) in a Multi-
   Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-ingress-protection/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-ingress-protection-01

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http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-ingress-protection-01


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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: "Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)" <venggovi@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-00.txt
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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 13:28:34 +0000
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References: <20140630231508.5203.4775.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E50F6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25DA34A5A@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E5B9B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E259923@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E61F9@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Label Switched Path (LSP) and Pseudowire (PW) Ping/Trace over MPLS Network using Entropy Labels (EL)
        Authors         : Nobo Akiya
                          George Swallow
                          Carlos Pignataro
                          Andrew G. Malis
                          Sam Aldrin
	Filename        : draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02.txt
	Pages           : 22
	Date            : 2014-07-04

Abstract:
   The Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP)
   Ping and Traceroute are used to exercise specific paths of Equal-Cost
   Multipath (ECMP).  When LSP is signaled to use Entropy Label (EL)
   described in RFC6790, the ability for LSP Ping and Traceroute
   operation to discover and exercise ECMP paths has been lost in
   scenarios which LSRs apply deviating load balance techniques.  One
   such scenario is when some LSRs apply EL based load balancing while
   other LSRs apply non-EL based load balancing (ex: IP).  Another
   scenario is when EL based LSP is stitched with another LSP which can
   be EL based or non-EL based.

   This document extends the MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute mechanisms to
   restore the ability of exercising specific paths of ECMP over LSP
   which make use of Entropy Label.  This document updates RFC4379,
   RFC6424 and RFC6790.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Jul  4 07:18:58 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02.txt
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Many thanks to Daniel King and Sriganesh Kini for reviewing and providing c=
omments.

Special thanks for Curtis Villamizar for providing number of valuable comme=
nts and discussing many points patiently.

Dear MPLS WG,

We have incorporated comments provided, and published a revision.
We will be asking the Shepherd to take this document through the WG adoptio=
n process shortly.

Thoughts, comments and questions are most welcome!

Thanks!

-Nobo, on behalf of authors

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-
> drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:10 AM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>  This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working
> Group of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Label Switched Path (LSP) and Pseudowire (PW) P=
ing/Trace
> over MPLS Network using Entropy Labels (EL)
>         Authors         : Nobo Akiya
>                           George Swallow
>                           Carlos Pignataro
>                           Andrew G. Malis
>                           Sam Aldrin
> 	Filename        : draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 22
> 	Date            : 2014-07-04
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP)
>    Ping and Traceroute are used to exercise specific paths of Equal-Cost
>    Multipath (ECMP).  When LSP is signaled to use Entropy Label (EL)
>    described in RFC6790, the ability for LSP Ping and Traceroute
>    operation to discover and exercise ECMP paths has been lost in
>    scenarios which LSRs apply deviating load balance techniques.  One
>    such scenario is when some LSRs apply EL based load balancing while
>    other LSRs apply non-EL based load balancing (ex: IP).  Another
>    scenario is when EL based LSP is stitched with another LSP which can
>    be EL based or non-EL based.
>=20
>    This document extends the MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute mechanisms to
>    restore the ability of exercising specific paths of ECMP over LSP
>    which make use of Entropy Label.  This document updates RFC4379,
>    RFC6424 and RFC6790.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-02
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet=
f.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Cc: "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Nobo,
Regarding the combinations of reply modes, my point is that usually type 2 =
is treated as the default mode which the responder node will usually attemp=
t if say type 4 or type 5 were requested in the echo request message but we=
re not available. What would be a use case where you want to prefer type 2 =
over types 4 or 5? I would have thought the latter being very specific retu=
rn paths, the user would first try them and in case they are not available =
then resort to type 2. Not the other way around.

Also, do you have a use case for requesting types 4 and 5 together for the =
same target FEC stack? I would have thought these not to be compatible. For=
 example, type 4 could be the return path of the tested PW but the responde=
r node would not normally use type 5 and send the reply to the VCC ping usi=
ng some other LSP.

Mustapha.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:56 PM
> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Ross Callon; Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui) Zhang; jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simpl=
e-02
>=20
> Hello Mustapha,
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing this document!
>=20
> Let me provide my individual reply (not speaking for all the authors).
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) [mailto:mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-
> > lucent.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 6:48 PM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> > chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Aissaoui, Mustapha
> > (Mustapha); Ross Callon; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang;
> > jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> > Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> > simple-02
> >
> > Dear all,
> > I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid issues
> > to be resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the way the
> > authors went about to address them.
> >
> > 1. Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched Path
> > (LSP) Ping.
> > Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is
> > for wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the
> > sender of the echo request just wanted to use the return path of the
> > tested LSP. I do not see this as a strong justification. In many
> > cases, the LSP is unidirectional or the responder node is a transit
> > LSR and may not be able to inject the reply in the reverse direction
> > of that LSP. In that case, I can see that providing a specific return
> > LSP which is different than the tested LSP is required and the Reply Pa=
th TLV is
> needed.
> >
> > Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would
> > suggest to relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request
> > includes reply mode
> > 5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the Reply Path TLV is not included,
> > the responder node will interpret this as an implicit request to reply
> > via the reverse direction of the tested LSP.
>=20
> If that's more desired by the WG, I have no objection to that as long as =
it doesn't
> require a TLV to indicate reverse LSP :)
>=20
> >
> > 2. Reply Mode Order TLV
> > I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply
> > modes which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be
> > concurrently used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4. Reply
> > mode 3 is not very popular as far as I know. Also, most applications
> > would reply with mode 2 if the requested mode is not available. So, I
> > can't see how this new TLV will be useful in practice.
>=20
> You are absolutely correct, not all combinations of the reply modes in th=
e Reply
> Mode TLV is realistic.
>=20
>       Value    Meaning
>       -----    -------
>           1    Do not reply
>           2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
>           3    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet with Router Alert
>           4    Reply via application level control channel
>           5    Reply via Specified Path
>           6    Reply via reverse LSP
>=20
> Ping is simple, but let's talk about traceroute.
>=20
> I can imagine following example usage:
>=20
> (1) User prefers IP return path:
>=20
> If (LSP_w_reverse_LSP) {
>     ReplyModeTLV{2, 6}
> } else if (LSP_w_control_channel) {
>     ReplyModeTLV{2, 4}
> } else {
>     ReplyMode{2}
> }
>=20
> (2) User does not prefer IP return path:
>=20
> If (LSP_w_reverse_LSP) {
>     ReplyModeTLV{6, 2}
> } else if (LSP_w_control_channel) {
>     ReplyModeTLV{4, 2}
> } else {
>     ReplyMode{2}
> }
>=20
> Or user can specify a preference to be used for all LSP types (those who =
wants to
> make sure response is received back one way or another).
>=20
> (3) User prefers IP return path:
>=20
> If (all_LSP_types) {
>     ReplyModeTLV{2, 6, 4}
> } else {
>     ReplyMode{2}
> }
>=20
> (4) User does not prefer IP return path:
>=20
> If (all_LSP_types) {
>     ReplyModeTLV{4, 6, 2}
> } else {
>     ReplyMode{2}
> }
>=20
> I hope this answers your comments/concerns a bit :)
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mustapha.


From nobody Fri Jul  4 10:21:34 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 17:21:26 +0000
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Cc: "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Mustapha,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) [mailto:mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 12:40 PM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Ross Callon; Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui) Zhang; jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple-02
>=20
> Hi Nobo,
> Regarding the combinations of reply modes, my point is that usually type =
2
> is treated as the default mode which the responder node will usually
> attempt if say type 4 or type 5 were requested in the echo request messag=
e
> but were not available.

LSP ping/trace is design such that behavior is strictly controlled by the i=
nitiator. I'd say any behavior which the responder does not comply to the i=
nstruction in received MPLS echo request and starts to decide its own behav=
ior on reply contents or how to reply is a bad idea.

> What would be a use case where you want to prefer
> type 2 over types 4 or 5?
> I would have thought the latter being very specific
> return paths, the user would first try them and in case they are not avai=
lable
> then resort to type 2. Not the other way around.

Ask operators :)

There are some operators who prefer (2 > (4 or 5)) and there are some opera=
tors who prefer ((4 or 5) > 2).

This is exactly one of the items which lead the authors to coming up with t=
his document.

>=20
> Also, do you have a use case for requesting types 4 and 5 together for th=
e
> same target FEC stack? I would have thought these not to be compatible. F=
or
> example, type 4 could be the return path of the tested PW but the
> responder node would not normally use type 5 and send the reply to the
> VCC ping using some other LSP.

Correct. Whether 4 or 5 can be used is LSP dependant, meaning the tool or u=
ser have to know that. For those users who are only concerned about ping/tr=
ace succeeding in the forward path, users can configure (5, 4, 2) (or whate=
ver) and tools can default to that for all LSP types, ping or trace or ping=
 w/ specific TTL.

Thanks!

-Nobo

>=20
> Mustapha.
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:56 PM
> > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> > chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Ross Callon;
> > Jeffrey
> > (Zhaohui) Zhang; jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> > Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of
> > draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
> >
> > Hello Mustapha,
> >
> > Thank you for reviewing this document!
> >
> > Let me provide my individual reply (not speaking for all the authors).
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
> > > [mailto:mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-
> > > lucent.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 6:48 PM
> > > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org;
> > > mpls- chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); Aissaoui,
> > > Mustapha (Mustapha); Ross Callon; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang;
> > > jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> > > Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> > > simple-02
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > > I was asked to review this draft and I think it describes valid
> > > issues to be resolved. I however have a couple of comments about the
> > > way the authors went about to address them.
> > >
> > > 1. Relation to RFC 7110 - Return Path Specified Label Switched Path
> > > (LSP) Ping.
> > > Section 4.1 argues the reason why a separate reply mode is needed is
> > > for wanting to omit the Reply Path TLV defined in RFC 7110 when the
> > > sender of the echo request just wanted to use the return path of the
> > > tested LSP. I do not see this as a strong justification. In many
> > > cases, the LSP is unidirectional or the responder node is a transit
> > > LSR and may not be able to inject the reply in the reverse direction
> > > of that LSP. In that case, I can see that providing a specific
> > > return LSP which is different than the tested LSP is required and
> > > the Reply Path TLV is
> > needed.
> > >
> > > Assuming this is still an important issue for the authors, I would
> > > suggest to relax the rule in RFC 7110 such that if the echo request
> > > includes reply mode
> > > 5 "Reply via Specified Path" and the Reply Path TLV is not included,
> > > the responder node will interpret this as an implicit request to
> > > reply via the reverse direction of the tested LSP.
> >
> > If that's more desired by the WG, I have no objection to that as long
> > as it doesn't require a TLV to indicate reverse LSP :)
> >
> > >
> > > 2. Reply Mode Order TLV
> > > I am not convinced of the need for this TLV. There is not much reply
> > > modes which are usable today together. Only reply mode 2 can be
> > > concurrently used with reply mode 5 in RFC 7110 or reply mode 4.
> > > Reply mode 3 is not very popular as far as I know. Also, most
> > > applications would reply with mode 2 if the requested mode is not
> > > available. So, I can't see how this new TLV will be useful in practic=
e.
> >
> > You are absolutely correct, not all combinations of the reply modes in
> > the Reply Mode TLV is realistic.
> >
> >       Value    Meaning
> >       -----    -------
> >           1    Do not reply
> >           2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
> >           3    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet with Router Alert
> >           4    Reply via application level control channel
> >           5    Reply via Specified Path
> >           6    Reply via reverse LSP
> >
> > Ping is simple, but let's talk about traceroute.
> >
> > I can imagine following example usage:
> >
> > (1) User prefers IP return path:
> >
> > If (LSP_w_reverse_LSP) {
> >     ReplyModeTLV{2, 6}
> > } else if (LSP_w_control_channel) {
> >     ReplyModeTLV{2, 4}
> > } else {
> >     ReplyMode{2}
> > }
> >
> > (2) User does not prefer IP return path:
> >
> > If (LSP_w_reverse_LSP) {
> >     ReplyModeTLV{6, 2}
> > } else if (LSP_w_control_channel) {
> >     ReplyModeTLV{4, 2}
> > } else {
> >     ReplyMode{2}
> > }
> >
> > Or user can specify a preference to be used for all LSP types (those
> > who wants to make sure response is received back one way or another).
> >
> > (3) User prefers IP return path:
> >
> > If (all_LSP_types) {
> >     ReplyModeTLV{2, 6, 4}
> > } else {
> >     ReplyMode{2}
> > }
> >
> > (4) User does not prefer IP return path:
> >
> > If (all_LSP_types) {
> >     ReplyModeTLV{4, 6, 2}
> > } else {
> >     ReplyMode{2}
> > }
> >
> > I hope this answers your comments/concerns a bit :)
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Nobo
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Mustapha.


From nobody Fri Jul  4 11:12:41 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 18:12:32 +0000
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References: <b38720c603764748b2c16aae7de2de8d@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D946A9035@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D946C86F6@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <9EB527EE-2C56-405D-9340-88A3184A48CA@gmail.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E25B497@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <3ECD02EE-71E6-4AC5-BBB5-CC0C354219B0@gmail.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Sam,

> In the Introduction it says
> "However, it is becoming increasingly difficult for an initiator to
> =A0=A0select a valid return path to encode in the MPLS LSP echo request
> =A0=A0packets. =A0If the initiator does not select a valid return path, t=
he
> =A0=A0MPLS LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator. =A0This res=
ults
> =A0=A0in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute operation. =A0In=
 an
> =A0=A0effort to minimize such false failures, different implementations
> =A0=A0have chosen different default return path encoding for different LS=
P
> =A0=A0types and LSP operations. =A0The problem with implementations havin=
g
> =A0=A0different default return path encoding is that the MPLS echo reply
> =A0=A0will not work in many cases, and the default value may not be the
> =A0=A0preferred choice by the operators.
> "
>=20
> The problems I have is regarding the need for this ID are 1. Can we solve=
 the
> problem without the need for this ID/solution? Answer is yes, albeit it t=
akes
> one or more requests. If you say, it is solving a problem which was could=
n't
> be solved earlier, I would like to see.
>=20
> The problem can be addressed with vendors iterating the operation with
> multiple Return Paths when the previous try didn't work.
> And exact behavior being well document and operators fully understanding
> potentially different behavior per LSP types, per ping/trace operation ty=
pe
> and deviating behaviors across multiple vendors/products. If you
> implement this, with user preference knob (yes some prefers IP return pat=
h
> while other do not prefer IP return path), imagine yourself trying to exp=
lain
> to users how things work, and imagine yourself trying to explain why
> vendors/products behave differently. I sure wouldn't want to :) It's inde=
ed
> not a problem that cannot be solved, but it's an aspect of LSP Ping/Trace=
 that
> can be simplified in terms of implementations and especially operations!
> %sam - You say it didn't work. Could you provide info why it didn't work?=
 In
> the last sentence you say it simplifies. So does it simplify or is it fix=
ing
> something which was not working earlier?

Perhaps the right thing to say is, it doesn't work with one MPLS echo reque=
st message today. Sure the initiating device can, automatically or user ini=
tiated, issue 2 or 3 MPLS echo request to the same target, cycling through =
list of Reply Modes. With the change, it now works with one MPLS echo reque=
st message, and it is simplified because you only need one MPLS echo reques=
t vs. few that you needed before.

> LSP ping itself is full of knobs and it has to be explained. You could fi=
nd that
> in every vendors documentation and it is nothing knew. I know it because =
I
> have authored much of the documentation.

Yup, I am well aware of that Sam, and which is why this discussion is so wo=
rth the effort!
I am hoping, one of these replies, I'll get a message saying "yes this is a=
 reasonable extension" :)

> 5. With the proposed solution, to determine the problem, one also needs t=
o
> read the 'reply mode' used by the replying device. IOW, return code + rep=
ly
> mode used will actually define the behavior. This changes the definition =
of
> RFC4379. 6. Specific to the text above, I do not agree that the problem i=
s due
> to implementation. It is the user choice which ever reply mode he/she
> wants to use. If using CLI, could chose different reply mode. If it is
> application, he/she could select it there.
>=20
> User prefers control channel for operations on TP tunnels.
>=20
> traceroute mpls ... [default reply mode 4 used]
>=20
> Timeout
> Timeout
> Timeout
> Timeout
> ...
> Success
>=20
> Operator: What the heck!
>=20
> <20 minutes later>
>=20
> Operator: Oh man, there is no problem! This is tunnel 100 and is not 200,=
 it's
> not co-routed!
>=20
> Just an example :)
>=20
> If possible (and yes it is), the tool should provide better experience to=
 users.
> Here is a counter example and response to your example, below.
>=20
> traceroute mpls .[new tlv - reply mode 5, 2] /* reply mode 5 or 4, I am j=
ust
> illustrating with 5 here */
>=20
> success
> success
> success
> success
>=20
> 1hr later, oh shoot, return path is broken but I am getting success becau=
se
> replies are in the ip path and not on reverse LSP.
>=20
> this is much more harmful than not receiving reply.

No no no, the output should be:

success [Reply Mode: IPv4 UDP]
success [Reply Mode: IPv4 UDP]
success [Reply Mode: IPv4 UDP]
success [Reply Mode: application level control channel]

So that it's obvious to users that what is working and what is not working.

Maybe not exactly in that output format, but you get the idea.

And with that, there is absolutely no harm, rather you are providing much m=
ore information back to the user than what is available today.

Not to mention the command will finish right away instead of waiting [timeo=
ut] from every LSR.

Imagine if this was an application running the command, do you really want =
the application to take 5 seconds or few tens of milliseconds? And do you w=
ant the application to run the same command again to get the information wh=
ich would've been possible to get in the first try?

>=20
> And to your example, few very important points I'd like to make
> 1. getting a timeout is not an issue, when lsp ping command is incorrectl=
y
> issued. Infact it is correct. No one can set that right, when user issues=
 wrong
> command.

How "timeout" contributes to the usability has been answered above.

> 2. What I fail to understand is, how does your proposed solution make it
> right? Just because you get the reply all is well? what if the return pat=
h is
> indeed broken (as illustrated in my example above), you will not be able =
to
> infer something is wrong, (strictly interpreting RFC4379) because return
> code received is '3/8/5/6'.

Ok this one is already answered above as well.

> 3. Specific to your example, when you perform trace on non-corouted TP
> tunnels, timeout SHOULD be returned when there is no return lsp for in
> band reply from p1 and p2, because the return path chosen is 'reply mode =
4'.
> In order to give 'better experience' what command will you issue and how
> different the o/p will be, assuming there is no ip on intermediate nodes.=
(p1,
> p2,p3,p4) Sample topology below

No, it's not the timeout that user is interested in seeing.

If control channel is preferred:
- responder uses the control channel. If timeout is seen with this, then th=
at's a good thing (as you indicated, and I fully agree).
- if there is no control channel at the responder node, then that should be=
 notified by the responder to the initiator via alternate path (instead of =
just timing out).

>=20
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/----P1--P2---\
> PE1--- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 PE2
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 \----P3--P4-----/
>=20
> PE1->PE2 lsp is via p1, p2
> PE2->PE1 lsp is via p4,p3
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The point is, why to introduce this optimization solution, where one coul=
d
> solve the problem without any of this new upgrade?

If you are saying don't introduce extension to improve the tool because the=
re's a way to do the same even if that's inefficient, then there isn't much=
 more I can say. However, I do believe in a good extension if inefficiency =
can be made efficient.

> Alternatively, for ex: If the reply was being received with reply mode '5=
, but
> now I don't receive it now, send a new request with reply mode 1. This is
> more simple than the proposed solution without needing any change.
> I'd be open to hearing the strong reason, this ID is solving, which could=
n't be
> solved with RFC4379.
>=20
> Why would you send reply mode 1 (Do no reply) if reply mode 5 (Reply via
> Specified Path) starts timing out? That sounds a very silly, but maybe I'=
m
> missing something.
> typo. Meant to say reply mode 2.

Ah lol.

Thanks!

-Nobo


From nobody Fri Jul  4 15:40:30 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Updates to LDP for IPv6
        Authors         : Rajiv Asati
                          Vishwas Manral
                          Rajiv Papneja
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13.txt
	Pages           : 22
	Date            : 2014-07-04

Abstract:
   The Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) specification defines
   procedures to exchange label bindings over either IPv4, or IPv6 or
   both networks. This document corrects and clarifies the LDP behavior
   when IPv6 network is used (with or without IPv4). This document
   updates RFC 5036.




The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Nobo,

Thank you for the reply.
Please find my replies inline.
On Jul 4, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>=20
>> In the Introduction it says
>> "However, it is becoming increasingly difficult for an initiator to
>>   select a valid return path to encode in the MPLS LSP echo request
>>   packets.  If the initiator does not select a valid return path, the
>>   MPLS LSP echo reply will not get back to the initiator.  This =
results
>>   in a false failure of MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute operation.  In =
an
>>   effort to minimize such false failures, different implementations
>>   have chosen different default return path encoding for different =
LSP
>>   types and LSP operations.  The problem with implementations having
>>   different default return path encoding is that the MPLS echo reply
>>   will not work in many cases, and the default value may not be the
>>   preferred choice by the operators.
>> "
>>=20
>> The problems I have is regarding the need for this ID are 1. Can we =
solve the
>> problem without the need for this ID/solution? Answer is yes, albeit =
it takes
>> one or more requests. If you say, it is solving a problem which was =
couldn't
>> be solved earlier, I would like to see.
>>=20
>> The problem can be addressed with vendors iterating the operation =
with
>> multiple Return Paths when the previous try didn't work.
>> And exact behavior being well document and operators fully =
understanding
>> potentially different behavior per LSP types, per ping/trace =
operation type
>> and deviating behaviors across multiple vendors/products. If you
>> implement this, with user preference knob (yes some prefers IP return =
path
>> while other do not prefer IP return path), imagine yourself trying to =
explain
>> to users how things work, and imagine yourself trying to explain why
>> vendors/products behave differently. I sure wouldn't want to :) It's =
indeed
>> not a problem that cannot be solved, but it's an aspect of LSP =
Ping/Trace that
>> can be simplified in terms of implementations and especially =
operations!
>> %sam - You say it didn't work. Could you provide info why it didn't =
work? In
>> the last sentence you say it simplifies. So does it simplify or is it =
fixing
>> something which was not working earlier?
>=20
> Perhaps the right thing to say is, it doesn't work with one MPLS echo =
request message today. Sure the initiating device can, automatically or =
user initiated, issue 2 or 3 MPLS echo request to the same target, =
cycling through list of Reply Modes. With the change, it now works with =
one MPLS echo request message, and it is simplified because you only =
need one MPLS echo request vs. few that you needed before.
As you can see, my argument, just like every other argument made at IETF =
is, why one more extra option, when it already works, albeit with extra =
request. Also this requires all nodes to be upgraded to supported to =
fully functional as you describe. The extra cost is not worth it, when =
you could achieve the same with small cost in workflow but no upgrade or =
protocol/TLV change.
>=20
>> LSP ping itself is full of knobs and it has to be explained. You =
could find that
>> in every vendors documentation and it is nothing knew. I know it =
because I
>> have authored much of the documentation.
>=20
> Yup, I am well aware of that Sam, and which is why this discussion is =
so worth the effort!
> I am hoping, one of these replies, I'll get a message saying "yes this =
is a reasonable extension" :)
My anticipation is that we need not make this one more addition when =
there is no real need and hope WG agrees with me :D
Reason is, I feel is, cost outweigh any benefit it brings. More details =
in the below responses.
>=20
>> 5. With the proposed solution, to determine the problem, one also =
needs to
>> read the 'reply mode' used by the replying device. IOW, return code + =
reply
>> mode used will actually define the behavior. This changes the =
definition of
>> RFC4379. 6. Specific to the text above, I do not agree that the =
problem is due
>> to implementation. It is the user choice which ever reply mode he/she
>> wants to use. If using CLI, could chose different reply mode. If it =
is
>> application, he/she could select it there.
>>=20
>> User prefers control channel for operations on TP tunnels.
>>=20
>> traceroute mpls ... [default reply mode 4 used]
>>=20
>> Timeout
>> Timeout
>> Timeout
>> Timeout
>> ...
>> Success
>>=20
>> Operator: What the heck!
>>=20
>> <20 minutes later>
>>=20
>> Operator: Oh man, there is no problem! This is tunnel 100 and is not =
200, it's
>> not co-routed!
>>=20
>> Just an example :)
>>=20
>> If possible (and yes it is), the tool should provide better =
experience to users.
>> Here is a counter example and response to your example, below.
>>=20
>> traceroute mpls .[new tlv - reply mode 5, 2] /* reply mode 5 or 4, I =
am just
>> illustrating with 5 here */
>>=20
>> success
>> success
>> success
>> success
>>=20
>> 1hr later, oh shoot, return path is broken but I am getting success =
because
>> replies are in the ip path and not on reverse LSP.
>>=20
>> this is much more harmful than not receiving reply.
>=20
> No no no, the output should be:
>=20
> success [Reply Mode: IPv4 UDP]
> success [Reply Mode: IPv4 UDP]
> success [Reply Mode: IPv4 UDP]
> success [Reply Mode: application level control channel]
>=20
> So that it's obvious to users that what is working and what is not =
working.
>=20
> Maybe not exactly in that output format, but you get the idea.
>=20
> And with that, there is absolutely no harm, rather you are providing =
much more information back to the user than what is available today.
>=20
> Not to mention the command will finish right away instead of waiting =
[timeout] from every LSR.
>=20
> Imagine if this was an application running the command, do you really =
want the application to take 5 seconds or few tens of milliseconds? And =
do you want the application to run the same command again to get the =
information which would've been possible to get in the first try?
Usually, when ping fails, trace is used. Trace is not really used like =
ping as it causes lot of extra traffic. and with network running with =
huge number of LSP=92s and load balanced paths, trace is performed to =
further diagnosed when ping fails.
Having said that, two things we need to see.
1. What are the LSP types it will be really useful to have multiple =
reply modes at the same time.
Resp> At present, TP and PW are only LSP=92s which are bidirectional .=20=

With PW VCCV, you cannot do trace for intermediate nodes anyway. So, =
trace is not an option.=20
With TP, one could have IP enabled and non-ip enabled P routers With =
non-IP enabled, you can only use reply mode 5(or 4, not sure what diff =
vendors implemented). IOW, you cannot use reply mode 3 or 2.
So, that leaves with TP LSP=92s with IP enabled P routers. And within =
that, this is really useful only if the LSP=92s are non-corouted.=20
Let me know if which other LSP=92s missed out here.

2.=20
For the above trace example, in order for the output to receive =
=91success' from all hops, you need to have all devices supporting this =
TLV.=20
Let us take this, you send the this new TLV with reply modes [5,2], if =
you receive all timeouts, what do you conclude? in-band reply mode is =
broken + IP path also broken OR nodes do not support this TLV?


>>=20
>> And to your example, few very important points I'd like to make
>> 1. getting a timeout is not an issue, when lsp ping command is =
incorrectly
>> issued. Infact it is correct. No one can set that right, when user =
issues wrong
>> command.
>=20
> How "timeout" contributes to the usability has been answered above.
>=20
>> 2. What I fail to understand is, how does your proposed solution make =
it
>> right? Just because you get the reply all is well? what if the return =
path is
>> indeed broken (as illustrated in my example above), you will not be =
able to
>> infer something is wrong, (strictly interpreting RFC4379) because =
return
>> code received is '3/8/5/6'.
>=20
> Ok this one is already answered above as well.
>=20
>> 3. Specific to your example, when you perform trace on non-corouted =
TP
>> tunnels, timeout SHOULD be returned when there is no return lsp for =
in
>> band reply from p1 and p2, because the return path chosen is 'reply =
mode 4'.
>> In order to give 'better experience' what command will you issue and =
how
>> different the o/p will be, assuming there is no ip on intermediate =
nodes.(p1,
>> p2,p3,p4) Sample topology below
>=20
> No, it's not the timeout that user is interested in seeing.
>=20
> If control channel is preferred:
> - responder uses the control channel. If timeout is seen with this, =
then that's a good thing (as you indicated, and I fully agree).
> - if there is no control channel at the responder node, then that =
should be notified by the responder to the initiator via alternate path =
(instead of just timing out).
Solution is there and very simple.
If there is IP reply path and no control channel as you say, just use =
reply mode 2 for Trace and  use reply mode =914=92 for Ping.
Why is that a problem?

If I am missing something here, could you clarify with real lsp example =
and how this TLV is solving that existing solution is not able to, will =
clarify things better.
=20
>=20
>>=20
>>                /----P1--P2---\
>> PE1---                                         PE2
>>               \----P3--P4-----/
>>=20
>> PE1->PE2 lsp is via p1, p2
>> PE2->PE1 lsp is via p4,p3
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> The point is, why to introduce this optimization solution, where one =
could
>> solve the problem without any of this new upgrade?
>=20
> If you are saying don't introduce extension to improve the tool =
because there's a way to do the same even if that's inefficient, then =
there isn't much more I can say. However, I do believe in a good =
extension if inefficiency can be made efficient.
That is where I disagree. what you say is efficient, is not true, =
because of the cost this solution for this to work and that too only for =
a corner case lsp type.
We could debate this point, but I doubt we could converge on the =
efficiency part.
It is like the debate, more vs less. :D

cheers
-sam


>=20
>> Alternatively, for ex: If the reply was being received with reply =
mode '5, but
>> now I don't receive it now, send a new request with reply mode 1. =
This is
>> more simple than the proposed solution without needing any change.
>> I'd be open to hearing the strong reason, this ID is solving, which =
couldn't be
>> solved with RFC4379.
>>=20
>> Why would you send reply mode 1 (Do no reply) if reply mode 5 (Reply =
via
>> Specified Path) starts timing out? That sounds a very silly, but =
maybe I'm
>> missing something.
>> typo. Meant to say reply mode 2.
>=20
> Ah lol.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20


From nobody Sat Jul  5 05:56:52 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
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Working Group,

Sorry for the late responses, I have a backlog after relocating
for the summer back to Sweden.

Yakov is right - all comments are addressed and the draft is ready
for publication request.

However there is one small caveat, the draft uses a IANA registry
(based on advice from chairs and ADs) that is not yet in place. The
new registry will be created based on draft-ietf-l3vpn-pmsi-registry
which is in AD evaluation. I'd like to wait for the AD comments before
sending the publication request for this draft.

I hope I will be able to do that early next week.

/Loa
mpls co-chair


On 2014-07-02 21:02, Yakov Rekhter wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The revised version (-14) reflects all the comments received
> during the WG LC.
>
> Yakov.
> ------- Forwarded Message
>
> Date:    Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:10:00 -0700
> From:    <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> To:      <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> cc:      <mpls@ietf.org>
> Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>   This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group o
> f the IETF.
>
>          Title           : Inter-Area P2MP Segmented LSPs
>          Authors         : Yakov Rekhter
>                            Rahul Aggarwal
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14.txt
> 	Pages           : 42
> 	Date            : 2014-07-02
>
> Abstract:
>     This document describes procedures for building inter-area point-to-
>     multipoint (P2MP) segmented service LSPs by partitioning such LSPs
>     into intra-area segments and using BGP as the inter-area routing and
>     label distribution protocol. Within each IGP area the intra-area
>     segments are either carried over intra-area P2MP LSPs, using P2MP LSP
>     hierarchy, or instantiated using ingress replication.  The intra-area
>     P2MP LSPs may be signaled using P2MP RSVP-TE or P2MP mLDP. If ingress
>     replication is used within an IGP area, then (multipoint-to-point)
>     LDP LSPs or (point-to-point) RSVP-TE LSPs may be used in the IGP
>     area. The applications/services that use such inter-area service LSPs
>     may be BGP Multicast VPN, VPLS multicast, or global table multicast
>     over MPLS.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast/
>
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast-14
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Jeong/Authors,
    Thank you for the response.  Most of the changes look good.  I still
have a few questions and open comments.  Please see below.

Lou

On 7/3/2014 8:52 PM, Jeong Ryoo wrote:
> Dear Lou,
>
>  
>
> Thanks a lot for your valuable comments.
>
>  
>
> The authors of this draft have discussed your comments, and are
> proposing our resolutions to your comments. Please, let us know if the
> proposal is appropriate to address your comments and concerns.
>
>  
>
> Best regards,
>
>  
>
> Authors of draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements draft
>
>  
>
> ****** Beginning of Comment Resolution ******
>
>  
>
> - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
> In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
> distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
> resources are "committed". This difference from past
> definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
> and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
> *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
>
...
>
>  
>
> [Authors] After reviewing RFCs 4427, 6372, 3945, 4426, and 4428, we
> concluded that the distinction between protection and restoration
> should be aligned with the exiting documents normatively referenced by
> this document. Accordingly, the following 16 modifications will be
> done in revision:
>
... (deleted changes looked fine.)
>
>  
>
>  
>
> (4) Page 7, the first paragraph:
>
> OLD:
>
> the resources for the protection path are fully committed,
>
> NEW
>
> the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,
>
>  
>
Dedicated is also an ambiguous term, how about:
OLD
   the resources for the protection path are fully committed, the
   protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
   dedicated to the protection of the related working path and also
NEW
   the resources for the protection path are fully allocated, the
   protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
   allocated to the protection of the related working path and also


> OLD:
>
> resources may be planned but would not be committed until …
>
> NEW:
>
> resources may be planned but would not be utilized until …
>
How about:
OLD
   resources may be planned but would not be committed until requested
NEW

   resources may be allocated but would not be utilized until requested

...
>  
>
> (7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
> OLD:
>
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are committed to a
>
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
> switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to
>
> optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing for cases of
>
> multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the shared
>
> resources are be coordinated between the different working paths in
>
> the SMP network.
>
> NEW:
>
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by a
>
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
> switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail. The different
> working paths in
>
> the SMP network are involved in the resource utilization coordination. 
>
> .
>

This is fine, but I wonder why you are using "resource utilization" vs
"protection switch"? (this is actually a bit of a general comment -- I
the latter is an existing applicable term that would help readers how
this document fits in to the technology space.)

...
>
>  
>
>   
>
> (12) Section 5.2, the third bullet item:
>
> OLD:
>
> If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
> allocation of the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
> committed on a first come first served basis.
>
> NEW:
>
> If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
> the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
> assigned on a first come first served basis.
>

why use a new term "assigned" vs the previous term "utilized"?  If there
is no distinction being made the same term should be used (either term
is fine, but choose one). If there is a distinction, it should be made
explicit (i.e., explained).

>  
>
> (13) Section 5.2, the fourth bullet item:
>
> OLD:
>
> If the protection resources are committed to a protection path,
>
> whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
> the higher priority path SHALL be committed to the higher priority
>
> path.
>
> NEW:
>
> If the protection resources are utilized by a protection path,
>
> whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
> the higher priority path SHALL be assigned to the higher priority
>
> path.
>
>  
>
>  
>
same comment.

...
>  
>
>  
>
> - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really defines
> the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
> to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
> requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
> the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
> 3).
>
> [Authors] We can add the following paragraph at the end of Section 1:
>
> “This document is intended to clarify the instructions to protocol
> designers producing solutions that satisfy the requirements set out in
> this document.”
>
>  
>
>

How about being even more explicit (in both the abstract and section 1):
   This document provides requirements  for  any
   mechanism that would be used to implement SMP for MPLS-TP data paths,
   in networks that delegate protection switch coordination to the data
   plane.

> - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
> protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
> I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
> required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
> case, but don't see this in the document.
>
> [Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in the
> PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and RFC 7271
> (PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as unidirectional
> switching is allowed. This document does not impose any restriction on
> co-routing, either.
>
>  
>

Both RFC4427 and 6372 mention this (Bi-directional recovery switching in
the former). I think this document really needs to mention something on
the topic.  Given the 6372 a "MAY" level requirement is probably
sufficient, but this should be confirmed with the WG.  (I personally
would like SHOULD as this seems to better match 6372's text "operator
often requires...".)

>
> - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
> preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
> reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
> in dependent of control plane.
>
> [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and hard
> preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not exactly the
> case for SMP.
>

Then 6372 should be referenced and the difference should be described. 
Otherwise readers are likely to think you just used the wrong reference
and that 6372's text applies.  6372 is after all titled "MPLS-TP
Survivability Framework"...

>  
>
>
> - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
> carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
> GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
> please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
> control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
> document.
>
> [Authors] Yes, we will make the correction.
>
okay
>
>  
>
>
> - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
> referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
> informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
> mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
> an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
> you can say is MAY.
>
> [Authors] The first case is the one we are aiming at. We will use
> SHALL NOT.
>
>  
>
>
okay.
>
> - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
> domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
> rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
> [Authors] The sentence can be rewritten as:
>
> OLD:
>
> Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
> NEW:
>
> In order to cover the situation where the first come first served
> principle cannot resolve the contention among multiple equal priority
> requests, i.e., when the requests occur simultaneously,, tie-breaking
> rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
>  
>
>  
>

good enough (i.e., states that the definition of tie-breaking is FFS.)

>
> - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
> leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
> do more / not just follow 6372?
>
> [Authors] We can add the following sentence at the end:
>
> “As described in [RFC6372], the event of preemption may be detected by
> OAM and reported as a fault or a degradation of traffic delivery.” 
>

okay.
>
>
> - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on soft-preemption as
> well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
> establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
> independent of preemption mode.
>
> [Authors] Yes, we will change the second paragraph from “SMP in
> hard-preemption mode SHOULD …” to “SMP SHOULD …” and move the changed
> paragraph above the first paragraph.
>
>  
>
>
> Nits:
>
> - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used in any
> earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
> undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
> "protection switch"?
>
> [Authors] Yes, the term will be changed as you suggested.
>
>  
>
>
great.
>
> - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
> MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
> document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
> The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
> critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
> provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
> for this document.
>
> [Authors] The proposed text for the paragraph 1 is:
>
> “The MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) is described in [RFC5921],
>
> and [RFC6372] provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP
>
> and is the foundation for this document.”
>
>  
>
okay.
>
>
> - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
> Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
> 4427/4428 don't use it.
>
> [Authors] OK.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
> - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really introductory
> text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
> [Authors] Section 3 was intended to present a reference model for SMP.
> Some text of Section 2 is repeated in Section 1 as you suggested earlier.
>
>  
>
We're in the domain of style, so is your call.
>
>  
>
>
> - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
> solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
> [Authors] [RFC4206] will be added as a reference
>
>
> - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
> [Authors] OK, the term will be changed.
>
>  
>
>
> - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
> mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
> protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
> [Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, or as closely as
> possible to provide fast protection.
>
>  
>
What text change is planned?

>
> - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted requirements
> list.
>
> [Authors] OK, we will use numbers.
>
>  
>
>
> - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
> both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
> slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
> requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
> [Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the fourth
> bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
>

Do you plan a text change?  (the 1st paragraph should be a list item and
soft-preemption is mentioned as a parenthetical , and the forth doesn't
mention its scope as hard preemption.)

>
> - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
> the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
> [Authors] Yes, req 5 can be moved to Section 5.5.
>
>  
>
okay.

>
> - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it should be
> dropped.
>
> [Authors] Yes, it will be deleted.
>
>
great.
>
> - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
> just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
> [Authors] Req. 9 will be deleted as it seems to require control plane
> supports.
>
>
>
> - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
> [Authors] OK.
>
>  
>
>
> - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
> node not the path.
>
> [Authors] Yes. We will simply say that “When the condition that
> triggered the protection switching is cleared, …”
>
>
> - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
> the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
> point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
> made as a minor comment.)
>
> [Authors] As in other protection switching technologies, two modes of
> operations (revertive and non-revertive) are required.
>
>  
>
>
> - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
> [Authors] We will add “as described in [RFC6372]” to the ends of two
> paragraphs for WTR timer and hold-off timer.
>
>  
>
Okay.

> ***** End of Comment resolution *****
>
...


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    Jeong/Authors,<br>
        Thank you for the response.  Most of the changes look good.  I
    still have a few questions and open comments.  Please see below.<br>
    <br>
    Lou<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/3/2014 8:52 PM, Jeong Ryoo wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <div style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt"><span style="COLOR: blue"
                lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">Dear Lou,</font></span></div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">Thanks
                  a lot for your valuable comments.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">The
                  authors of this draft have discussed your comments,
                  and are proposing our resolutions to your comments.
                  Please, let us know if the proposal is appropriate to
                  address your comments and concerns.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">Best
                  regards,</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <font face="맑은 고딕"><span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US">Authors
                  of draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements draft</span></font></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">****** Beginning of
                  Comment Resolution ******</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">- Document's usage
                  of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:<br>
                  <br>
                  In section 1 the document introduces the notion that
                  the<br>
                  distinction between protection and restoration is
                  based on when<br>
                  resources are "committed". This difference from past<br>
                  definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that
                  protection<br>
                  and restoration differ based on when resources are
                  *allocated* not<br>
                  *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:<br>
                  <br>
                </font></span><br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <font face="맑은 고딕">...</font><br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  After reviewing RFCs 4427, 6372, 3945, 4426, and 4428,
                  we concluded that the distinction between protection
                  and restoration should be aligned with the exiting
                  documents normatively referenced by this document.
                  Accordingly, the following 16 modifications will be
                  done in revision:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
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            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    ... (deleted changes looked fine.)<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> </p>
             
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">(4)
                  Page 7, the first paragraph:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">OLD:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  resources for the protection path are fully committed,</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">NEW</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Dedicated is also an ambiguous term, how about:<br>
    OLD<br>
       the resources for the protection path are fully committed, the<br>
       protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are<br>
       dedicated to the protection of the related working path and also<br>
    NEW<br>
       the resources for the protection path are fully allocated, the<br>
       protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are<br>
       allocated to the protection of the related working path and also<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">OLD:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">resources
                  may be planned but would not be committed until …
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">NEW:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">resources
                  may be planned but would not be utilized until …
                </font></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    How about:<br>
    OLD<br>
       resources may be planned but would not be committed until
    requested<br>
    NEW<br>
    <br>
       resources may be allocated but would not be utilized until
    requested<br>
    <br>
    ...<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div> 
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">(7)
                  The second paragraph of Section 4.1:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">OLD:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">When
                  the reserved resources of the shared segments are
                  committed to a</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">particular
                  protection path, there may not be sufficient resources</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">available
                  for an additional protection path. This then implies
                  that</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">if
                  another working path of the SMP domain triggers a
                  protection</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">switch,
                  the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">optimize
                  the operation of the commitment and preparing for
                  cases of</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">multiple
                  working paths failing, the commitment of the shared</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">resources
                  are be coordinated between the different working paths
                  in</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  SMP network.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">NEW:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">When
                  the reserved resources of the shared segments are
                  utilized by a</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">particular
                  protection path, there may not be sufficient resources</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">available
                  for an additional protection path. This then implies
                  that</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">if
                  another working path of the SMP domain triggers a
                  protection</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">switch,
                  the resource utilization coordination may fail. The
                  different working paths in</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  SMP network are involved in the resource utilization
                  coordination.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> 
                  </span>
                  <!--?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /-->
                  <o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all;
              TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT:
              normal; mso-layout-grid-align: none" align="left">
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    This is fine, but I wonder why you are using "resource utilization"
    vs "protection switch"? (this is actually a bit of a general comment
    -- I the latter is an existing applicable term that would help
    readers how this document fits in to the technology space.)<br>
    <br>
    ...<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all;
              TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT:
              normal; mso-layout-grid-align: none" align="left"> </p>
               <br>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">(12)
                  Section 5.2, the third bullet item:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">OLD:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">If
                  multiple protection paths of equal priority are
                  requesting</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">allocation
                  of the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">committed
                  on a first come first served basis.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">NEW:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">If
                  multiple protection paths of equal priority are
                  requesting</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">assigned
                  on a first come first served basis.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    why use a new term "assigned" vs the previous term "utilized"?  If
    there is no distinction being made the same term should be used
    (either term is fine, but choose one). If there is a distinction, it
    should be made explicit (i.e., explained).<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">(13)
                  Section 5.2, the fourth bullet item:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">OLD:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">If
                  the protection resources are committed to a protection
                  path,</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">whose
                  working path has a lower priority, resources required
                  for</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  higher priority path SHALL be committed to the higher
                  priority</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">path.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">NEW:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">If
                  the protection resources are utilized by a protection
                  path,</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">whose
                  working path has a lower priority, resources required
                  for</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">the
                  higher priority path SHALL be assigned to the higher
                  priority</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">path.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    same comment.<br>
    <br>
    ...<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>  <br>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 2, 1st
                  paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really defines<br>
                  the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies
                  the instructions<br>
                  to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy
                  the<br>
                  requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd
                  repeat this in<br>
                  the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in
                  section 1 (or<br>
                  3).<br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  We can add the following paragraph at the end of
                  Section 1:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">“This
                  document is intended to clarify the instructions to
                  protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy
                  the requirements set out in this document.”</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
              </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    How about being even more explicit (in both the abstract and section
    1):<br>
       This document provides requirements  for  any<br>
       mechanism that would be used to implement SMP for MPLS-TP data
    paths,<br>
       in networks that delegate protection switch coordination to the
    data<br>
       plane.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><span lang="EN-US">
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- General comment: fate-sharing for
                  co-routed bidirectional LSP<br>
                  protection: How is co-routing preserved for the
                  reverse path in SMP?<br>
                  I'd assumed the protection switch coordination
                  protocol would be<br>
                  required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in
                  the co-routed<br>
                  case, but don't see this in the document.<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <font face="맑은 고딕"><span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US">[Authors]
                  Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in
                  the PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378
                  (PSC) and RFC 7271 (PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is
                  not required as unidirectional switching is allowed.
                  This document does not impose any restriction on
                  co-routing, either.
                </span></font></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Both RFC4427 and 6372 mention this (Bi-directional recovery
    switching in the former). I think this document really needs to
    mention something on the topic.  Given the 6372 a "MAY" level
    requirement is probably sufficient, but this should be confirmed
    with the WG.  (I personally would like SHOULD as this seems to
    better match 6372's text "operator often requires...".)<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- In section 4 and 5.2 you reference
                  5712 and 3209 as defining<br>
                  preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is
                  the right<br>
                  reference here as it defines both in the context of
                  survivability and<br>
                  in dependent of control plane.<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <font face="맑은 고딕"><span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US">[Authors]
                  One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and
                  hard preemptions in the context of extra traffic,
                  which is not exactly the case for SMP.</span></font></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Then 6372 should be referenced and the difference should be
    described.  Otherwise readers are likely to think you just used the
    wrong reference and that 6372's text applies.  6372 is after all
    titled "MPLS-TP Survivability Framework"...<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- In section 4.2 you say "Therefore,
                  it is suggested that this be<br>
                  carried out under the control of a dynamic control
                  plane similar to<br>
                  GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"?
                  If so, great,<br>
                  please make the correction. If not, I think the debate
                  of which<br>
                  control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the
                  scope of this<br>
                  document.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Yes, we will make the correction.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    okay<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are
                  you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If<br>
                  referring to solutions conformant with this document,
                  then these are<br>
                  informative statements, "and a non-control plane based
                  SMP switchover<br>
                  mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...".
                  If referring to<br>
                  an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I
                  think the most<br>
                  you can say is MAY.<br style="mso-special-character:
                    line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  The first case is the one we are aiming at. We will
                  use SHALL NOT.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
              </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    okay.<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><span lang="EN-US">
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules
                  SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP<br>
                  domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by
                  "tie-breaking<br>
                  rules" should be defined directly or by reference.<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  The sentence can be rewritten as:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">OLD:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">Tie-breaking
                  rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">NEW:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <font face="맑은 고딕"><span style="COLOR: blue;
                  mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt" lang="EN-US">In order to
                  cover the situation where the first come first served
                  principle cannot resolve the contention among multiple
                  equal priority requests, i.e., when the requests occur
                  simultaneously,</span><span style="COLOR: blue"
                  lang="EN-US">, tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in
                  scope of an SMP domain.</span></font></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    good enough (i.e., states that the definition of tie-breaking is
    FFS.)<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an
                  approach where preemption notification<br>
                  leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is
                  there any reason to<br>
                  do more / not just follow 6372?<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  We can add the following sentence at the end:
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">“As
                  described in [RFC6372], the event of preemption may be
                  detected by OAM and reported as a fault or a
                  degradation of traffic delivery.”<span
                    style="mso-spacerun: yes"> 
                  </span></font></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <font face="맑은 고딕">okay.</font><br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><span style="COLOR:
                blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕"><o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.7. There may be
                  coordination required on soft-preemption as<br>
                  well (depending on the cross-connects established
                  during LSP<br>
                  establishment) so coordinated switching should be
                  supported<br>
                  independent of preemption mode.<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Yes, we will change the second paragraph from “SMP in
                  hard-preemption mode SHOULD …” to “SMP SHOULD …” and
                  move the changed paragraph above the first paragraph.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">Nits:<br>
                  <br>
                  - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action"
                  being used in any<br>
                  earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce
                  a new (and<br>
                  undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one,
                  e.g.,<br>
                  "protection switch"?<br style="mso-special-character:
                    line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Yes, the term will be changed as you suggested.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
              </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    great.<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><span lang="EN-US">
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we
                  really need another definition of<br>
                  MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your
                  favorite MPLS-TP<br>
                  document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.<br>
                  <br>
                  The last sentence also makes a subjective statement.
                  Whether it is<br>
                  critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say
                  something like 6372<br>
                  provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is
                  the foundation<br>
                  for this document.<br style="mso-special-character:
                    line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  The proposed text for the paragraph 1 is:</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">“The
                  MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) is described in
                  [RFC5921],
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">and
                  [RFC6372] provides a survivability framework for
                  MPLS-TP
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">and
                  is the foundation for this document.”</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    okay.<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the
                  right reference 4427 not 4428?<br>
                  Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary
                  qualifier and<br>
                  4427/4428 don't use it.<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  OK.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree
                  section 2) are really introductory<br>
                  text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section
                  1.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Section 3 was intended to present a reference model
                  for SMP. Some text of Section 2 is repeated in Section
                  1 as you suggested earlier.
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    We're in the domain of style, so is your call.<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 3.2 should have a reference
                  for "existing control plane<br>
                  solutions for SMP within MPLS".<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  [RFC4206] will be added as a reference</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 3.2 again uses the
                  "executive action" term.<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  OK, the term will be changed.
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 4.1. You say "two
                  operations simultaneously". Do you really<br>
                  mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both
                  occur for<br>
                  protection to be provided? (Same comment in section
                  5.1.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Both actions should occur at the same time, or as
                  closely as possible to provide fast protection.
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    What text change is planned? <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.2. I suggest numbering
                  the currently bulletted requirements<br>
                  list.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  OK, we will use numbers.
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.2: First paragraph and
                  forth bullet last sentence. These<br>
                  both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and
                  actually say<br>
                  slightly different things. I suggest combine into a
                  single<br>
                  requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of
                  the topic.<br style="mso-special-character:
                    line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the
                  fourth bullet belongs to the requirements of
                  hard-preemption.</font></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Do you plan a text change?  (the 1st paragraph should be a list item
    and soft-preemption is mentioned as a parenthetical , and the forth
    doesn't mention its scope as hard preemption.)<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><span style="COLOR:
                blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.2, req 5. How does this
                  relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't<br>
                  the topics related to timing be consolidated?<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Yes, req 5 can be moved to Section 5.5.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    okay.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to
                  be a subset of 7, so it should be<br>
                  dropped.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Yes, it will be deleted.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
              </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    great.<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><span lang="EN-US">
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't
                  this a subset of 9? Why call out<br>
                  just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Req. 9 will be deleted as it seems to require control
                  plane supports.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.3. s/MAY/will<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  OK.</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- section 5.4: " When the working
                  path detects.." detection is by the<br>
                  node not the path.<br style="mso-special-character:
                    line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  Yes. We will simply say that “When the condition that
                  triggered the protection switching is cleared, …”</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- Section 5.4, last sentence. This is
                  only the 2nd time you imply that<br>
                  the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I
                  think this<br>
                  point is currently too subtle in the document. (This
                  point was also<br>
                  made as a minor comment.)<br
                    style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                  <br style="mso-special-character: line-break">
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  As in other protection switching technologies, two
                  modes of operations (revertive and non-revertive) are
                  required.
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
               </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <font face="맑은 고딕">- section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be
                  referenced</font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span style="COLOR: blue" lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">[Authors]
                  We will add “as described in [RFC6372]” to the ends of
                  two paragraphs for WTR timer and hold-off timer.
                </font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> 
              <br>
            </p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Okay.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A28748144@SMTP2.etri.info"
      type="cite">
      <div id="ezFormProc_div" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 굴림">
        <div id="msgbody">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: keep-all; MARGIN:
              0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal">
              <span lang="EN-US"><font face="맑은 고딕">***** End of Comment
                  resolution *****</font></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    ...<br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
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Lou, hi
I would like to address two of your comments, in your follow-up message,
since I am the source of the change in terminology.

Regarding the two occurences of "assigned" in place of "utilized" - when I
read the proposed changes,as discussed amongst the authors, I felt that in
those two instances the use of "utilized" could lead to some ambiguity.

If we state that "resources SHOULD be utilized on a first come first served
basis" this could be interpreted (IMO) as referring to the packet level,
rather than  utilized by a specific path, such that packets from different
paths could be interspersed along the shared segments. Therefore,I
suggested that or this context it would be better to use a word that meant
that the first-come first served basis was at the level of assigning (or
allocating) the resources rather than utilizing them.

Hope this clarifies this point. I am certain that I speak for the other
authors in  saying that I am open to other suggestions.

BR,
yaacov
On Jul 4, 2014 3:53 AM, "Jeong Ryoo" <ryoo@etri.re.kr> wrote:

>   Dear Lou,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your valuable comments.
>
>
>
> The authors of this draft have discussed your comments, and are proposing
> our resolutions to your comments. Please, let us know if the proposal is
> appropriate to address your comments and concerns.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Authors of draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements draft
>
>
>
> ****** Beginning of Comment Resolution ******
>
>
>
> - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
> In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
> distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
> resources are "committed". This difference from past
> definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
> and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
> *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
> The distinction between protection and restoration is made based
> on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span
> establishment. The distinction between different types of
> restoration is made based on the level of route computation,
> signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration
> LSP/span establishment.
>
> This difference also leads to come confused statements in the
> document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the
> reader. The term "committed" is not tightly defined in this
> document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how
> "allocated" has been used. An example of this can be found in
> Section 3.1 which states:
>
> However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the
> shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection
> path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -
> regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between
> protection and restoration.
>
> Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to
> cover a "protection switch" would "connect" the protection path
> but not the earlier "allocation" of resources. (Quoted terms are
> used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new
> distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with
> the existing distinction.
>
> This issue exists in multiple places in the document where
> "committed" is used and I'd recommend that each should be replaced
> with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., "allocation",
> "connection", "cross-connect", "protection switch(over)", ...
>
> Note I'm *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the
> document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the
> document where I think it's possible that once this terminology
> ambiguity is corrected that I'll have other substantive comments.
>
>
>
> [Authors] After reviewing RFCs 4427, 6372, 3945, 4426, and 4428, we
> concluded that the distinction between protection and restoration should =
be
> aligned with the exiting documents normatively referenced by this documen=
t.
> Accordingly, the following 16 modifications will be done in revision:
>
>
>
> (1) Section 1, the third paragraph
>
> OLD:
>
> As pointed out
>
> in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 linear protection requires
>
> that resources are committed for use by both the working and
>
> protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that the same
>
> resources are committed, but allows the resources of the protection
>
> path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.
>
> NEW:
>
> As pointed out
>
> in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 protection requires
>
> that resources are allocated for use by both the working and
>
> protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that the same
>
> resources are allocated, but allows the resources of the protection
>
> path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.
>
>
>
> (2) The whole text in Section 3.1 will be replaced with:
>
> [RFC6372], based upon the definitions in [RFC4427], differentiates betwee=
n
> "protection" and "restoration" dependent upon the dynamism of the resourc=
e
> allocation. The same distinction is used in [RFC3945], [RFC4426], and
> [RFC4428]. This document also uses the same distinction between protectio=
n
> and restoration as stated in [RFC6372].
>
>
>
> (3) In page 6,
>
> OLD:
>
> The use of preemption in the network is typically a business or
>
> policy decision such that when protection resources are contended,
>
> priority can be applied to determine to which parties the protection
>
> resources are committed.
>
> NEW:
>
> The use of preemption in the network is typically a business or
>
> policy decision such that when protection resources are contended,
>
> priority can be applied to determine which parties utilize the protection
>
> resources.
>
>
>
> (4) Page 7, the first paragraph:
>
> OLD:
>
> the resources for the protection path are fully committed,
>
> NEW
>
> the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,
>
>
>
> OLD:
>
> resources may be planned but would not be committed until =E2=80=A6
>
> NEW:
>
> resources may be planned but would not be utilized until =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> (5) In the second paragraph in page 7,
>
> OLD:
>
> "Hard Preemption" requires the programming of selectors at the ingress of
> each shared segment to specify which backup path has the highest priority
> when committing protection resources, the others being preempted.
>
> NEW
>
> "Hard Preemption" requires the programming of selectors at the ingress of
> each shared segment to specify the priorities of backup paths, so that
> traffic of lower priority paths can be preempted.
>
>
>
> (6) The first paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
> OLD:
>
> =E2=80=A6 and commit the associated resources. The commitment of resource=
s
>
> is dependent upon =E2=80=A6
>
> NEW:
>
> =E2=80=A6 and coordinate the utilization of the associated shared resourc=
es.
>
> The resource utilization coordination is dependent upon =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> (7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
> OLD:
>
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are committed to a
>
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
> switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to
>
> optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing for cases of
>
> multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the shared
>
> resources are be coordinated between the different working paths in
>
> the SMP network.
>
> NEW:
>
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by a
>
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
> switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail. The different
> working paths in
>
> the SMP network are involved in the resource utilization coordination.
>
> .
>
>
>
> (8) Section 5.1,
>
> OLD:
>
> =E2=80=A6 and commit the associated resources.
>
> NEW
>
> =E2=80=A6 and coordinate the utilization of the associated shared resourc=
es.
>
>
>
> (9) In Section 5.1,
>
> OLD:
>
> In the case of multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the
>
> shared resources SHALL be coordinated between the different working
>
> paths in the SMP network.
>
> NEW:
>
> In the case of multiple working paths failing, the shared resource
> utilization
>
> coordination SHALL be between the different working
>
> paths in the SMP network.
>
>
>
> (10) Section 5.1.1.
>
> OLD:
>
> =E2=80=A6 because they already have been committed to the protection of, =
for
> example, a higher priority working path.
>
> NEW:
>
> =E2=80=A6 because they already have been utilized for the protection of, =
for
> example, a higher priority working path.
>
>
>
> (11) Section 5.2, the second bullet item:
>
> OLD:
>
> Resources of the shared segments SHALL be committed to the
>
> protection path =E2=80=A6
>
> NEW:
>
> Resources of the shared segments SHALL be utilized by the
>
> protection path =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> (12) Section 5.2, the third bullet item:
>
> OLD:
>
> If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
> allocation of the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
> committed on a first come first served basis.
>
> NEW:
>
> If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
> the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
> assigned on a first come first served basis.
>
>
>
> (13) Section 5.2, the fourth bullet item:
>
> OLD:
>
> If the protection resources are committed to a protection path,
>
> whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
> the higher priority path SHALL be committed to the higher priority
>
> path.
>
> NEW:
>
> If the protection resources are utilized by a protection path,
>
> whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
> the higher priority path SHALL be assigned to the higher priority
>
> path.
>
>
>
>
>
> (14) Section 5.2. the seventh bullet item
>
> OLD:
>
> Once resources of shared segments have been successfully committed
>
> to a protection path, =E2=80=A6
>
> NEW:
>
> Once resources of shared segments have been successfully utilized
>
> by a protection path, =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> (15) Section 5.3, the first paragraph,
>
> OLD:
>
> =E2=80=A6 request the commitment of protection resources. If the necessar=
y
>
> shared resources are unavailable to be committed to the protection
>
> path, the endpoints =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> NEW:
>
> =E2=80=A6 request the coordination of the shared resource utilization. If=
 the
> necessary
>
> shared resources are unavailable, the endpoints =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> (16) Section 5.3, the second paragraph,
>
> OLD:
>
> Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources currently
>
> committed for a particular working path are =E2=80=A6
>
> NEW:
>
> Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources currently
>
> utilized by a particular working path are =E2=80=A6
>
>
>
>
>
> - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really defines
> the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
> to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
> requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
> the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
> 3).
>
>  [Authors] We can add the following paragraph at the end of Section 1:
>
> =E2=80=9CThis document is intended to clarify the instructions to protoco=
l
> designers producing solutions that satisfy the requirements set out in th=
is
> document.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
>
> - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
> protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
> I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
> required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
> case, but don't see this in the document.
>
>  [Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in the PSC
> linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and RFC 7271 (PSC in
> APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as unidirectional switching is
> allowed. This document does not impose any restriction on co-routing,
> either.
>
>
>
>
> - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
> preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
> reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
> in dependent of control plane.
>
>  [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and hard
> preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not exactly the cas=
e
> for SMP.
>
>
>
>
> - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
> carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
> GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
> please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
> control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
> document.
>
>  [Authors] Yes, we will make the correction.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
> referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
> informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
> mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
> an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
> you can say is MAY.
>
>  [Authors] The first case is the one we are aiming at. We will use SHALL
> NOT.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
> domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
> rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
>  [Authors] The sentence can be rewritten as:
>
> OLD:
>
> Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
> NEW:
>
> In order to cover the situation where the first come first served
> principle cannot resolve the contention among multiple equal priority
> requests, i.e., when the requests occur simultaneously,, tie-breaking
> rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
> leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
> do more / not just follow 6372?
>
>  [Authors] We can add the following sentence at the end:
>
> =E2=80=9CAs described in [RFC6372], the event of preemption may be detect=
ed by OAM
> and reported as a fault or a degradation of traffic delivery.=E2=80=9D
>
>
> - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on soft-preemption as
> well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
> establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
> independent of preemption mode.
>
>  [Authors] Yes, we will change the second paragraph from =E2=80=9CSMP in
> hard-preemption mode SHOULD =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CSMP SHOULD =E2=
=80=A6=E2=80=9D and move the changed
> paragraph above the first paragraph.
>
>
>
>
> Nits:
>
> - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used in any
> earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
> undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
> "protection switch"?
>
>  [Authors] Yes, the term will be changed as you suggested.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
> MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
> document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
> The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
> critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
> provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
> for this document.
>
>  [Authors] The proposed text for the paragraph 1 is:
>
> =E2=80=9CThe MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) is described in [RFC5921],
>
> and [RFC6372] provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP
>
> and is the foundation for this document.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
>
> - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
> Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
> 4427/4428 don't use it.
>
>  [Authors] OK.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really introductory
> text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
>  [Authors] Section 3 was intended to present a reference model for SMP.
> Some text of Section 2 is repeated in Section 1 as you suggested earlier.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
> solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
>  [Authors] [RFC4206] will be added as a reference
>
>
> - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
>  [Authors] OK, the term will be changed.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
> mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
> protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
>  [Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, or as closely as
> possible to provide fast protection.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted requirements
> list.
>
>  [Authors] OK, we will use numbers.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
> both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
> slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
> requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
>  [Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the fourth
> bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
>
>
> - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
> the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
>  [Authors] Yes, req 5 can be moved to Section 5.5.
>
>
>
>
> - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it should be
> dropped.
>
>  [Authors] Yes, it will be deleted.
>
>
> - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
> just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
>  [Authors] Req. 9 will be deleted as it seems to require control plane
> supports.
>
>
>
> - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
>  [Authors] OK.
>
>
>
>
> - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
> node not the path.
>
>  [Authors] Yes. We will simply say that =E2=80=9CWhen the condition that
> triggered the protection switching is cleared, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
> - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
> the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
> point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
> made as a minor comment.)
>
>  [Authors] As in other protection switching technologies, two modes of
> operations (revertive and non-revertive) are required.
>
>
>
>
> - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
> [Authors] We will add =E2=80=9Cas described in [RFC6372]=E2=80=9D to the =
ends of two
> paragraphs for WTR timer and hold-off timer.
>
>
>
> ***** End of Comment resolution *****
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *=EB=B3=B4=EB=82=B8 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C : *"Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>
> *=EB=B3=B4=EB=82=B8 =EB=82=A0=EC=A7=9C : *2014-06-22 01:00:48 ( +09:00 )
> *=EB=B0=9B=EB=8A=94 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C : *rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org <rtg-ads=
@tools.ietf.org>
> *=EC=B0=B8=EC=A1=B0 : *rtg-dir@ietf.org <rtg-dir@ietf.org>,
> draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org>, mpls@ietf.org <
> mpls@ietf.org>
> *=EC=A0=9C=EB=AA=A9 : *[mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirem=
ents-06.txt
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this
> draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or
> routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG
> review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is
> to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the
> Routing Directorate, please see
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it
> would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF
> Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
> discussion or by updating the draft.
>
> Document: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
> Reviewer: Lou Berger
> Review Date: June 21 2014
> IETF LC End Date: 2014-06-23
> Intended Status: Informational
>
> Summary:
> I have some minor concerns about this document that I think
> should (must, actually) be resolved before publication.
>
> Comments:
>
> I think the document is well written and, other than a couple of
> terminology related issues, easily understood. The document does
> have a number of terminology and technical issues which should be
> readily resolved prior to publication.
>
> Major Issues:
>
> Major issues are the type of concerns that will result in the
> document being blocked until they are resolved. The Routing ADs will
> become involved. Please include all of the major issues you have
> found. Give as much context information as possible (e.g., section
> numbers, paragraph counts). If you find no major issues, please
> write: "No major issues found."
>
> - No major issues found. In particular, I expect all issues can be
> resolved without AD intervention. Some of the minor issues, if not
> resolved will be escalated to the AD/major issue category.
>
> Minor Issues:
>
> Minor issues are concerns about clarity or technical accuracy that
> should be discussed and resolved before publication, but which would
> normally be resolved between the authors and the reviewers. Please
> include all of the minor issues you have found. Give as much context
> information as possible (e.g., section numbers, paragraph counts).
> If you find no minor issues, please write: "No minor issues found."
>
> - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
> In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
> distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
> resources are "committed". This difference from past
> definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
> and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
> *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
> The distinction between protection and restoration is made based
> on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span
> establishment. The distinction between different types of
> restoration is made based on the level of route computation,
> signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration
> LSP/span establishment.
>
> This difference also leads to come confused statements in the
> document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the
> reader. The term "committed" is not tightly defined in this
> document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how
> "allocated" has been used. An example of this can be found in
> Section 3.1 which states:
>
> However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the
> shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection
> path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -
> regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between
> protection and restoration.
>
> Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to
> cover a "protection switch" would "connect" the protection path
> but not the earlier "allocation" of resources. (Quoted terms are
> used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new
> distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with
> the existing distinction.
>
> This issue exists in multiple places in the document where
> "committed" is used and I'd recommend that each should be replaced
> with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., "allocation",
> "connection", "cross-connect", "protection switch(over)", ...
>
> Note I'm *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the
> document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the
> document where I think it's possible that once this terminology
> ambiguity is corrected that I'll have other substantive comments.
>
> - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really defines
> the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
> to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
> requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
> the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
> 3).
>
> - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
> protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
> I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
> required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
> case, but don't see this in the document.
>
> - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
> preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
> reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
> in dependent of control plane.
>
> - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
> carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
> GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
> please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
> control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
> document.
>
> - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
> referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
> informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
> mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
> an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
> you can say is MAY.
>
> - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
> domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
> rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
> - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
> leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
> do more / not just follow 6372?
>
> - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on soft-preemption as
> well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
> establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
> independent of preemption mode.
>
> Nits:
>
> - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used in any
> earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
> undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
> "protection switch"?
>
> - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
> MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
> document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
> The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
> critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
> provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
> for this document.
>
> - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
> Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
> 4427/4428 don't use it.
>
> - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really introductory
> text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
> - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
> solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
> - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
> - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
> mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
> protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
> - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted requirements
> list.
>
> - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
> both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
> slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
> requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
> - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
> the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
> - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it should be
> dropped.
>
> - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
> just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
> - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
> - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
> node not the path.
>
> - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
> the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
> point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
> made as a minor comment.)
>
> - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

--f46d04428e02290ddc04fd778926
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p>Lou, hi<br>
 I would like to address two of your comments, in your follow-up message, s=
ince I am the source of the change in terminology.</p>
<p>Regarding the two occurences of &quot;assigned&quot; in place of &quot;u=
tilized&quot; - when I read the proposed changes,as discussed amongst the a=
uthors, I felt that in those two instances the use of &quot;utilized&quot; =
could lead to some ambiguity.</p>

<p>If we state that &quot;resources SHOULD be utilized on a first come firs=
t served basis&quot; this could be interpreted (IMO) as referring to the pa=
cket level, rather than=C2=A0 utilized by a specific path, such that packet=
s from different paths could be interspersed along the shared segments. The=
refore,I suggested that or this context it would be better to use a word th=
at meant that the first-come first served basis was at the level of assigni=
ng (or allocating) the resources rather than utilizing them.</p>

<p>Hope this clarifies this point. I am certain that I speak for the other =
authors in=C2=A0 saying that I am open to other suggestions.</p>
<p>BR,<br>
yaacov</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 4, 2014 3:53 AM, &quot;Jeong Ryoo&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ryoo@etri.re.kr">ryoo@etri.re.kr</a>&gt; wrote:<br typ=
e=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:=EA=B5=B4=EB=A6=BC">
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:20pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><=
font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Dear Lou,</font></span>=
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Thanks a lot for your valuable comments.</font></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">The authors of this draft have discussed your comments,=
 and are proposing our resolutions to your comments. Please, let us know if=
 the proposal is appropriate to address your comments and concerns.</font><=
/span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Best regards,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"COLOR:blue">Authors of draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements draft</span=
></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">*=
***** Beginning of Comment Resolution ******</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">-=
 Document&#39;s usage of &quot;committed&quot; vs &quot;allocated&quot; res=
ources:<br>
<br>
In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the<br>
distinction between protection and restoration is based on when<br>
resources are &quot;committed&quot;. This difference from past<br>
definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection<br>
and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not<br>
*committed*. To quote RFC 4427:<br>
<br>
The distinction between protection and restoration is made based<br>
on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span<br>
establishment. The distinction between different types of<br>
restoration is made based on the level of route computation,<br>
signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration<br>
LSP/span establishment.<br>
<br>
This difference also leads to come confused statements in the<br>
document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the<br>
reader. The term &quot;committed&quot; is not tightly defined in this<br>
document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how<br>
&quot;allocated&quot; has been used. An example of this can be found in<br>
Section 3.1 which states:<br>
<br>
However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the<br>
shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection<br>
path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -<br>
regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between<br>
protection and restoration.<br>
<br>
Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to<br>
cover a &quot;protection switch&quot; would &quot;connect&quot; the protect=
ion path<br>
but not the earlier &quot;allocation&quot; of resources. (Quoted terms are<=
br>
used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new<br>
distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with<br>
the existing distinction.<br>
<br>
This issue exists in multiple places in the document where<br>
&quot;committed&quot; is used and I&#39;d recommend that each should be rep=
laced<br>
with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., &quot;allocation&quot;,=
<br>
&quot;connection&quot;, &quot;cross-connect&quot;, &quot;protection switch(=
over)&quot;, ...<br>
<br>
Note I&#39;m *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the<b=
r>
document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the<br>
document where I think it&#39;s possible that once this terminology<br>
ambiguity is corrected that I&#39;ll have other substantive comments.</font=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] After reviewing RFCs 4427, 6372, 3945, 4426, =
and 4428, we concluded that the distinction between protection and restorat=
ion should be aligned with the exiting documents normatively referenced
 by this document. Accordingly, the following 16 modifications will be done=
 in revision:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(1) Section 1, the third paragraph</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">As pointed out</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 linear protect=
ion requires</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">that resources are committed for use by both the workin=
g and</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that=
 the same</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources are committed, but allows the resources of th=
e protection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.</fo=
nt></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">As pointed out</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 protection req=
uires</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">that resources are allocated for use by both the workin=
g and</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that=
 the same</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources are allocated, but allows the resources of th=
e protection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.</fo=
nt></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(2) The whole text in Section 3.1 will be replaced with=
:
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[RFC6372], based upon the definitions in [RFC4427], dif=
ferentiates between &quot;protection&quot; and &quot;restoration&quot; depe=
ndent upon the dynamism of the resource allocation. The same distinction is=
 used in [RFC3945],
 [RFC4426], and [RFC4428]. This document also uses the same distinction bet=
ween protection and restoration as stated in [RFC6372].</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(3) In page 6,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">The use of preemption in the network is typically a bus=
iness or</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">policy decision such that when protection resources are=
 contended,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">priority can be applied to determine to which parties t=
he protection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources are committed.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">The use of preemption in the network is typically a bus=
iness or</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">policy decision such that when protection resources are=
 contended,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">priority can be applied to determine which parties util=
ize the protection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(4) Page 7, the first paragraph:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the resources for the protection path are fully committ=
ed,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the resources for the protection path are fully dedicat=
ed,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources may be planned but would not be committed unt=
il =E2=80=A6
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources may be planned but would not be utilized unti=
l =E2=80=A6
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(5) In the second paragraph in page 7,
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">&quot;Hard Preemption&quot; requires the programming of=
 selectors at the ingress of each shared segment to specify which backup pa=
th has the highest priority when committing protection resources, the other=
s being
 preempted.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">&quot;Hard Preemption&quot; requires the programming of=
 selectors at the ingress of each shared segment to specify the priorities =
of backup paths, so that traffic of lower priority paths can be preempted.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(6) The first paragraph of Section 4.1:</font></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 and commit the associated resources. The comm=
itment of resources</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">is dependent upon =E2=80=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;TEXT-ALIGN:left;MARGIN:=
0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal" align=3D"left">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 and </font></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Tahoma&#39;,&#39;sans-serif&#39;;COLOR:blue">coordinat=
e the utilization of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=
=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the associated shared resources.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;TEXT-ALIGN:left;MARGIN:=
0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal" align=3D"left">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">The </font></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY:&#39;Tahoma&#39;,&#39;sans-serif&#39;;COLOR:blue">resource utilization=
 coordination
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=
=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">is dependent upon =E2=80=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:</font></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">When the reserved resources of the shared segments are =
committed to a</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">particular protection path, there may not be sufficient=
 resources</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">available for an additional protection path. This then =
implies that</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a pr=
otection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In or=
der to</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing =
for cases of</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the s=
hared</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">resources are be coordinated between the different work=
ing paths in</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the SMP network.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">When the reserved resources of the shared segments are =
utilized by a</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">particular protection path, there may not be sufficient=
 resources</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">available for an additional protection path. This then =
implies that</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a pr=
otection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail.=
 The different working paths in</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the SMP network are involved in the resource utilizatio=
n coordination.<span>=C2=A0
</span>
<u></u>
<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;TEXT-ALIGN:left;MARGIN:=
0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal" align=3D"left">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(8) Section 5.1,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 and commit the associated resources.</font></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;TEXT-ALIGN:left;MARGIN:=
0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal" align=3D"left">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 and </font></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Tahoma&#39;,&#39;sans-serif&#39;;COLOR:blue">coordinat=
e the utilization of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=
=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the associated shared resources.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(9) In Section 5.1,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">In the case of multiple working paths failing, the comm=
itment of the</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">shared resources SHALL be coordinated between the diffe=
rent working</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">paths in the SMP network.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">In the case of multiple working paths failing, the shar=
ed resource utilization</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">coordination SHALL be between the different working
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">paths in the SMP network.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(10) Section 5.1.1.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 because they already have been committed to t=
he protection of, for example, a higher priority working path.</font></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 because they already have been utilized for t=
he protection of, for example, a higher priority working path.</font></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(11) Section 5.2, the second bullet item:</font></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Resources of the shared segments SHALL be committed to =
the</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">protection path =E2=80=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:<span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Resources of the shared segments SHALL be utilized by t=
he</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">protection path =E2=80=A6 </font>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(12) Section 5.2, the third bullet item:</font></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requ=
esting</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">allocation of the shared resources, the resources SHOUL=
D be
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">committed on a first come first served basis.</font></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requ=
esting</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">assigned on a first come first served basis.</font></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(13) Section 5.2, the fourth bullet item:</font></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">If the protection resources are committed to a protecti=
on path,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">whose working path has a lower priority, resources requ=
ired for</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the higher priority path SHALL be committed to the high=
er priority</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">path.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">If the protection resources are utilized by a protectio=
n path,</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">whose working path has a lower priority, resources requ=
ired for</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">the higher priority path SHALL be assigned to the highe=
r priority</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">path.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(14) Section 5.2. the seventh bullet item</font></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Once resources of shared segments have been successfull=
y committed</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">to a protection path, =E2=80=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Once resources of shared segments have been successfull=
y utilized</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">by a protection path, =E2=80=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(15) Section 5.3, the first paragraph,</font></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 request the commitment of protection resource=
s. If the necessary</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">shared resources are unavailable to be committed to the=
 protection</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">path, the endpoints =E2=80=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=A6 request the coordination of the shared resour=
ce utilization. If the necessary</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">shared resources are unavailable, the endpoints =E2=80=
=A6</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">(16) Section 5.3, the second paragraph,</font></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources=
 currently</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">committed for a particular working path are =E2=80=A6</=
font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources=
 currently</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">utilized by a particular working path are =E2=80=A6</fo=
nt></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">-=
 Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really defines<br>
the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., &quot;clarifies the instructions<b=
r>
to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the<br>
requirements set out in this document.&quot; As such, I&#39;d repeat this i=
n<br>
the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or<br>
3).<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] We can add the following paragraph at the end=
 of Section 1:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=9CThis document is intended to clarify the instr=
uctions to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the requirem=
ents set out in this document.=E2=80=9D</font></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- General comment: fat=
e-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP<br>
protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?<br>
I&#39;d assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be<br>
required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed<br>
case, but don&#39;t see this in the document.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"COLOR:blue">[Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document=
. Even in the PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and R=
FC 7271 (PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as unidirectional
 switching is allowed. This document does not impose any restriction on co-=
routing, either.
</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- In section 4 and 5.2=
 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining<br>
preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right<br>
reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and<br>
in dependent of control plane.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"COLOR:blue">[Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both s=
oft and hard preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not exac=
tly the case for SMP.</span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- In section 4.2 you s=
ay &quot;Therefore, it is suggested that this be<br>
carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to<br>
GMPLS [RFC3945].&quot; perhaps you mean &quot;based on GMPLS&quot;? If so, =
great,<br>
please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which<br>
control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this<br>
document.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Yes, we will make the correction.</font></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.1, paragra=
ph 1. Why are you using &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot; here? If<br>
referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are<br>
informative statements, &quot;and a non-control plane based SMP switchover<=
br>
mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...&quot;. If referring to<b=
r>
an operator&#39;s/user&#39;s choice of protection mechanism, I think the mo=
st<br>
you can say is MAY.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] The first case is the one we are aiming at. W=
e will use SHALL NOT.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.2. &quot;T=
ie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP<br>
domain.&quot; As this is a requirement, what you mean by &quot;tie-breaking=
<br>
rules&quot; should be defined directly or by reference.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] The sentence can be rewritten as:</font></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">OLD:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP =
domain.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">NEW:</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"COLOR:blue">In order to cover the=C2=A0situation where=C2=A0the fir=
st come first served principle cannot resolve the contention among multiple=
 equal priority requests, i.e., when the requests occur
 simultaneously,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue">, tie-brea=
king rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.3. RFC6372=
 takes an approach where preemption notification<br>
leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to<br>
do more / not just follow 6372?<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] We can add the following sentence at the end:
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=9CAs described in [RFC6372], the event of preemp=
tion may be detected by OAM and reported as a fault or a degradation of tra=
ffic delivery.=E2=80=9D<span>=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.7. There m=
ay be coordination required on soft-preemption as<br>
well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP<br>
establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported<br>
independent of preemption mode.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Yes, we will change the second paragraph from=
 =E2=80=9CSMP in hard-preemption mode SHOULD =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=
=9CSMP SHOULD =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D and move the changed paragraph above the f=
irst paragraph.</font></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">Nits:<br>
<br>
- Abstract: I don&#39;t recall the term &quot;executive action&quot; being =
used in any<br>
earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and<br>
undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,<br>
&quot;protection switch&quot;?<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Yes, the term will be changed as you suggeste=
d.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 1, paragraph=
 1. Do we really need another definition of<br>
MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP<br>
document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.<br>
<br>
The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is<br>
critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372<br>
provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation<br>
for this document.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] The proposed text for the paragraph 1 is:</fo=
nt></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">=E2=80=9CThe MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) is descri=
bed in [RFC5921],
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">and [RFC6372] provides a survivability framework for MP=
LS-TP
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">and is the foundation for this document.=E2=80=9D</font=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 1, paragraph=
 3. Isn&#39;t the right reference 4427 not 4428?<br>
Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and<br>
4427/4428 don&#39;t use it.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] OK.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Sections 3 (and to a=
 lesser degree section 2) are really introductory<br>
text. I&#39;m unsure as to why they aren&#39;t part of section 1.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Section 3 was intended to present a reference=
 model for SMP. Some text of Section 2 is repeated in Section 1 as you sugg=
ested earlier.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 3.2 should h=
ave a reference for &quot;existing control plane<br>
solutions for SMP within MPLS&quot;.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] [RFC4206] will be added as a reference</font>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 3.2 again us=
es the &quot;executive action&quot; term.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] OK, the term will be changed.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 4.1. You say=
 &quot;two operations simultaneously&quot;. Do you really<br>
mean &quot;simultaneously&quot; or merely that they must both occur for<br>
protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, o=
r as closely as possible to provide fast protection.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.2. I sugge=
st numbering the currently bulletted requirements<br>
list.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] OK, we will use numbers.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.2: First p=
aragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These<br>
both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say<br>
slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single<br>
requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, w=
hile the fourth bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.2, req 5. =
How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn&#39;t<br>
the topics related to timing be consolidated?<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Yes, req 5 can be moved to Section 5.5.</font=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.2: require=
ment 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it should be<br>
dropped.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Yes, it will be deleted.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.2, require=
ment 8. Isn&#39;t this a subset of 9? Why call out<br>
just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Req. 9 will be deleted as it seems to require=
 control plane supports.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.3. s/MAY/w=
ill<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] OK.</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- section 5.4: &quot; =
When the working path detects..&quot; detection is by the<br>
node not the path.<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] Yes. We will simply say that =E2=80=9CWhen th=
e condition that triggered the protection switching is cleared, =E2=80=A6=
=E2=80=9D</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- Section 5.4, last se=
ntence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that<br>
the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this<br>
point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also<br>
made as a minor comment.)<br>
<br>
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] As in other protection switching technologies=
, two modes of operations (revertive and non-revertive) are required.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">- section 5.6. RFC 637=
2 should be referenced</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"COLOR:blue"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =
=EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">[Authors] We will add =E2=80=9Cas described in [RFC6372=
]=E2=80=9D to the ends of two paragraphs for WTR timer and hold-off timer.
</font></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"WORD-BREAK:keep-all;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"=EB=A7=91=EC=9D=80 =EA=B3=A0=EB=94=95">*=
**** End of Comment resolution *****</font></span></p>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:20pt"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:20pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:20pt">
<hr>
<b>=EB=B3=B4=EB=82=B8 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C : </b>&quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>=EB=B3=B4=EB=82=B8 =EB=82=A0=EC=A7=9C : </b>2014-06-22 01:00:48 ( +09:00=
 )<br>
<b>=EB=B0=9B=EB=8A=94 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C : </b><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-ads@to=
ols.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b>=EC=B0=B8=EC=A1=B0 : </b><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-smp=
-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-mpls-smp-req=
uirements.all@tools.ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-smp-=
requirements.all@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requ=
irements.all@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>

<b>=EC=A0=9C=EB=AA=A9 : </b>[mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requi=
rements-06.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this<br>
draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or<br>
routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG<br>
review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is<br>
to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the<br=
>
Routing Directorate, please see<br>
<a href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir" target=3D"=
_blank">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</a><br>
<br>
Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it<br=
>
would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF<br>
Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through<br>
discussion or by updating the draft.<br>
<br>
Document: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt<br>
Reviewer: Lou Berger<br>
Review Date: June 21 2014<br>
IETF LC End Date: 2014-06-23<br>
Intended Status: Informational<br>
<br>
Summary:<br>
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think<br>
should (must, actually) be resolved before publication.<br>
<br>
Comments:<br>
<br>
I think the document is well written and, other than a couple of<br>
terminology related issues, easily understood. The document does<br>
have a number of terminology and technical issues which should be<br>
readily resolved prior to publication.<br>
<br>
Major Issues:<br>
<br>
Major issues are the type of concerns that will result in the<br>
document being blocked until they are resolved. The Routing ADs will<br>
become involved. Please include all of the major issues you have<br>
found. Give as much context information as possible (e.g., section<br>
numbers, paragraph counts). If you find no major issues, please<br>
write: &quot;No major issues found.&quot;<br>
<br>
- No major issues found. In particular, I expect all issues can be<br>
resolved without AD intervention. Some of the minor issues, if not<br>
resolved will be escalated to the AD/major issue category.<br>
<br>
Minor Issues:<br>
<br>
Minor issues are concerns about clarity or technical accuracy that<br>
should be discussed and resolved before publication, but which would<br>
normally be resolved between the authors and the reviewers. Please<br>
include all of the minor issues you have found. Give as much context<br>
information as possible (e.g., section numbers, paragraph counts).<br>
If you find no minor issues, please write: &quot;No minor issues found.&quo=
t;<br>
<br>
- Document&#39;s usage of &quot;committed&quot; vs &quot;allocated&quot; re=
sources:<br>
<br>
In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the<br>
distinction between protection and restoration is based on when<br>
resources are &quot;committed&quot;. This difference from past<br>
definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection<br>
and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not<br>
*committed*. To quote RFC 4427:<br>
<br>
The distinction between protection and restoration is made based<br>
on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span<br>
establishment. The distinction between different types of<br>
restoration is made based on the level of route computation,<br>
signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration<br>
LSP/span establishment.<br>
<br>
This difference also leads to come confused statements in the<br>
document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the<br>
reader. The term &quot;committed&quot; is not tightly defined in this<br>
document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how<br>
&quot;allocated&quot; has been used. An example of this can be found in<br>
Section 3.1 which states:<br>
<br>
However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the<br>
shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection<br>
path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -<br>
regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between<br>
protection and restoration.<br>
<br>
Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to<br>
cover a &quot;protection switch&quot; would &quot;connect&quot; the protect=
ion path<br>
but not the earlier &quot;allocation&quot; of resources. (Quoted terms are<=
br>
used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new<br>
distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with<br>
the existing distinction.<br>
<br>
This issue exists in multiple places in the document where<br>
&quot;committed&quot; is used and I&#39;d recommend that each should be rep=
laced<br>
with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., &quot;allocation&quot;,=
<br>
&quot;connection&quot;, &quot;cross-connect&quot;, &quot;protection switch(=
over)&quot;, ...<br>
<br>
Note I&#39;m *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the<b=
r>
document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the<br>
document where I think it&#39;s possible that once this terminology<br>
ambiguity is corrected that I&#39;ll have other substantive comments.<br>
<br>
- Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really defines<br>
the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., &quot;clarifies the instructions<b=
r>
to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the<br>
requirements set out in this document.&quot; As such, I&#39;d repeat this i=
n<br>
the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or<br>
3).<br>
<br>
- General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP<br>
protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?<br>
I&#39;d assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be<br>
required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed<br>
case, but don&#39;t see this in the document.<br>
<br>
- In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining<br>
preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right<br>
reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and<br>
in dependent of control plane.<br>
<br>
- In section 4.2 you say &quot;Therefore, it is suggested that this be<br>
carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to<br>
GMPLS [RFC3945].&quot; perhaps you mean &quot;based on GMPLS&quot;? If so, =
great,<br>
please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which<br>
control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this<br>
document.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot; here? =
If<br>
referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are<br>
informative statements, &quot;and a non-control plane based SMP switchover<=
br>
mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...&quot;. If referring to<b=
r>
an operator&#39;s/user&#39;s choice of protection mechanism, I think the mo=
st<br>
you can say is MAY.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.2. &quot;Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP=
<br>
domain.&quot; As this is a requirement, what you mean by &quot;tie-breaking=
<br>
rules&quot; should be defined directly or by reference.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification<br>
leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to<br>
do more / not just follow 6372?<br>
<br>
- Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on soft-preemption as<br>
well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP<br>
establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported<br>
independent of preemption mode.<br>
<br>
Nits:<br>
<br>
- Abstract: I don&#39;t recall the term &quot;executive action&quot; being =
used in any<br>
earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and<br>
undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,<br>
&quot;protection switch&quot;?<br>
<br>
- Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of<br>
MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP<br>
document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.<br>
<br>
The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is<br>
critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372<br>
provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation<br>
for this document.<br>
<br>
- Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn&#39;t the right reference 4427 not 4428?<br>
Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and<br>
4427/4428 don&#39;t use it.<br>
<br>
- Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really introductory<br>
text. I&#39;m unsure as to why they aren&#39;t part of section 1.<br>
<br>
- Section 3.2 should have a reference for &quot;existing control plane<br>
solutions for SMP within MPLS&quot;.<br>
<br>
- Section 3.2 again uses the &quot;executive action&quot; term.<br>
<br>
- Section 4.1. You say &quot;two operations simultaneously&quot;. Do you re=
ally<br>
mean &quot;simultaneously&quot; or merely that they must both occur for<br>
protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted requirements<br>
list.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These<br>
both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say<br>
slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single<br>
requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn&#39;t<br=
>
the topics related to timing be consolidated?<br>
<br>
- Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it should be<br>
dropped.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn&#39;t this a subset of 9? Why call out<br=
>
just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?<br>
<br>
- Section 5.3. s/MAY/will<br>
<br>
- section 5.4: &quot; When the working path detects..&quot; detection is by=
 the<br>
node not the path.<br>
<br>
- Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that<br>
the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this<br>
point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also<br>
made as a minor comment.)<br>
<br>
- section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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<br></blockquote></div>

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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Sam,

Let me cut most of our discussions, and try to bring this to closure.
If you feel that we should continue our discussion, feel free to revive the=
m.

> As you can see, my argument, just like every other argument made at IETF =
is,
> why one more extra option, when it already works, albeit with extra
> request. Also this requires all nodes to be upgraded to supported to full=
y
> functional as you describe. The extra cost is not worth it, when you coul=
d
> achieve the same with small cost in workflow but no upgrade or
> protocol/TLV change.

I agree that it is important to ask "why is this required". And this is whe=
re we seem to have different scale to measure (at least this for this one).

As for this extension, it's not just "extra request" that I'm concerned abo=
ut, but they are:

1. Extra request =3D more system/network resources.
2. Users/tools requiring to put up with timeout from many LSRs =3D bad usab=
ility.
3. Users/tools requiring to know which Reply Mode timed out and what to use=
 next =3D bad usability.
4. Every product/vendor having [more] vastly different behavior =3D bad usa=
bility.

So to me, it's worth the effort to do something about it. If above results =
in "not worth it" on your scale, then that's that. We can conclude that our=
 scales are different, but that's IETF :)

As always, thanks for the discussions Sam.
Despite the fact we couldn't converge, I do appreciate your time and effort=
.

Thanks!

-Nobo


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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Jeffrey \(Zhaohui\) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Nobo,

Not sure if the email you send was with reply mode 1 or with new TLV :D.=20=

Sending my response as top post. :D

I do not think we could converge on efficiency or which is bad/good, =
neither would I like to debate about bad usability.

My previous questions remain unanswered. Will leave it to you and =
co-authors, whether to respond or not.
As far as my concerns regarding the ID is concerned, would be good to =
illustrate with example lsp's, be it TP or LDP or something else, it is =
solving. And quantifying the solution to show it really is required that =
existing solutions could not solve it, would help WG.

At this point of time, I could not change my conclusion. Sorry.

-sam
On Jul 6, 2014, at 6:03 AM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>=20
> Let me cut most of our discussions, and try to bring this to closure.
> If you feel that we should continue our discussion, feel free to =
revive them.
>=20
>> As you can see, my argument, just like every other argument made at =
IETF is,
>> why one more extra option, when it already works, albeit with extra
>> request. Also this requires all nodes to be upgraded to supported to =
fully
>> functional as you describe. The extra cost is not worth it, when you =
could
>> achieve the same with small cost in workflow but no upgrade or
>> protocol/TLV change.
>=20
> I agree that it is important to ask "why is this required". And this =
is where we seem to have different scale to measure (at least this for =
this one).
>=20
> As for this extension, it's not just "extra request" that I'm =
concerned about, but they are:
>=20
> 1. Extra request =3D more system/network resources.
> 2. Users/tools requiring to put up with timeout from many LSRs =3D bad =
usability.
> 3. Users/tools requiring to know which Reply Mode timed out and what =
to use next =3D bad usability.
> 4. Every product/vendor having [more] vastly different behavior =3D =
bad usability.
>=20
> So to me, it's worth the effort to do something about it. If above =
results in "not worth it" on your scale, then that's that. We can =
conclude that our scales are different, but that's IETF :)
>=20
> As always, thanks for the discussions Sam.
> Despite the fact we couldn't converge, I do appreciate your time and =
effort.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Sam,

> Not sure if the email you send was with reply mode 1 or with new TLV :D.

It was actually a Reply Mode Order TLV containing [new TLV, reply mode 1], =
so you did the right thing :)

> As far as my concerns regarding the ID is concerned, would be good to
> illustrate with example lsp's, be it TP or LDP or something else, it is s=
olving.
> And quantifying the solution to show it really is required that existing
> solutions could not solve it, would help WG.

That will indeed be a good addition to this document. We will add texts for=
 this in the next revision.

Thanks!

-Nobo


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To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>, "Harish Sitaraman" <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, Kapil Arora <kapilaro@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Nobo,

Sorry for the late response. Holidays.

I am not sure if it is necessary to have the flexibility of (2), but it is =
always good to have the flexibility if it does not introduce much complexit=
y. If we allow multiple mode 5, then (2) is achieved.

I'll leave this up to you.

Jeffrey

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 8:58 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com; Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-
> ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> mode-simple-02
>=20
> Hi Jeffrey,
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing this document.
>=20
> > I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be
> > specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order
> TLV"
> > and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).
>=20
> Interesting, I do find what you suggested to be useful. I went back to
> RFC7110 and read up on the Reply Path TLV definition. The TLV can
> contain zero, one or more FECs.
>=20
>    Reply Path:  It is used to describe the return path that an echo
>       reply will be send along.  It is variable in length and can
>       contain zero, one or more Target FEC sub-TLVs [RFC4379].
>=20
> So it appears that "Reply Mode 5" can be one of the entries in the
> "Reply Mode Order TLV", and "Reply Path TLV" can contain multiple FECs.
>=20
> (1) What is possible as is:
>   Pref#1: Reply Mode 4    Reply via application level control channel
>   Pref#2a: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> First FEC listed
>   Pref#2b: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> Second FEC listed
>   Pref#3: Reply Mode 2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
>=20
> (2) What is not possible as is:
>   Pref#1: Reply Mode 4    Reply via application level control channel
>   Pref#2: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> First FEC listed
>   Pref#3: Reply Mode 2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
>   Pref#4: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> Second FEC listed
>=20
> Granularity of really mixing up Reply Modes and return FECs like (2)
> cannot be accomplished, but I'm not sure if we need such granularity and
> I believe (1) is reasonable. If you are ok with this, then I think it's
> worth adding texts to describe this usages. Do let us know you
> preference.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui)
> > Zhang
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 12:08 PM
> > To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> > jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com; Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-
> ping-
> > reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> > mode-simple-02
> >
> > I have reviewed the draft and believe it is ready for WG adoption
> > consideration.
> >
> > I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to be
> > specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode Order
> TLV"
> > and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Jeffrey
> > _____________________________________________
> > From: Ross Callon
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM
> > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> > jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> > Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org; mpls-
> > chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
> > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple-
> > 02
> >
> >
> > Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;
> >
> > You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers for draft-akiya-
> > mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.
> >
> > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know
> that
> > this review is going on. However, please do not review your own
> document.
> > Also please don't update the draft while the reviews are in progress
> (we
> > would like the reviewers to all review the same version).
> >
> > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> useful
> > (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and
> is the
> > document technically sound?=A0 Also, is the text and grammar
> understandable
> > (it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be reasonably
> clear).
> > We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be
> > considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this
> point,
> > but should be a good start).
> >
> > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG
> > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, Comments
> may
> > be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
> >
> > Are you able to review this draft by July 2, 2014?
> >
> > Thanks, Ross
> > (as MPLS WG chair)
> >


From nobody Mon Jul  7 06:59:27 2014
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Subject: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Working Group,


The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us
that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus
to make it a working group document.

This mail starts a two week adoption poll.

We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
adoption poll.

There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.

Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
(mpls@ietf.org)

This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!

/Loa
for the mpls wg co-chairs

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Mon Jul  7 07:12:53 2014
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Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
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Working Group,

This is to start an IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Mon Jul  7 08:23:56 2014
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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Nobo,

Apologies for the delay. Please see below:

>Hi Nagendra,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)
>> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 1:54 PM
>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
>> Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>> multipath-00.txt
>>=20
>> Hi Nobo,
>>=20
>> As usual, interesting draft. Please see below for initial comments,
>
>Thank you for comments, and thank you for agreeing to allow me to include
>the MPLS WG in this response.
>
>I'm glad you found this document to be interesting. Although it became a
>bit more complicated that I was originally hoping. However, this
>extension add a great value to a tool which can be part of the something
>larger to "fight" the traffic black hole happening on MPLS networks :)
>=20
>>=20
>> From section 3, It appears that responder MUST set the LAG Info TLV. Is
>>it the
>> case even if the downstream is not LAG?. Or did you meant that if the
>> responder have LAG based donwstream interface, then it MUST include the
>> TLV?.
>
>First bullet in the last portion of the Section 3 was exactly to explain
>why this is a MUST, but clearly additional text will be helpful. How
>about we update the bullet:
>
>[old]
>   o  Identify whether responder LSR understands this mechanism.
>
>[new]
>   o  Mandating the responder to always add the LAG Interface Info TLV
>      in the MPLS echo reply allows the initiating LSR to identify
>      whether responder LSR understands this mechanism.

<Nagendra> I am trying to understand the behavior when a responder wants
back to echo received with LAG Interface Info TLV. In figure 1, assume
there is one more node connected to E (say F) and A wants to trace the
path from A to F (via A-B-LAG-C-E-F). When C receives thhe echo with LAG
interface Info  TLV, since it doenst have any upstream/downstream LAG
interface, will it still include the TLV in reply?. If so, is it like it
unset both U/D bit?.

>
>>=20
>>=20
>> In Section, I am trying to understand what does the below means,
>>=20
>> "All fields and Sub-TLVs, except for Multipath Data Sub-TLV and
>>          Interface Index Sub-TLV, are set/added to DDMAP to describe
>>          this LAG interface, as per [RFC6424].
>> "
>>=20
>> The above statement followed by statement to add "Interface Index Sub-
>> TLV"
>> appears to be confusing.
>
>I see. Perhaps re-wording it can help clarify things. How about something
>like this?
>
>[old]
>      *  All fields and Sub-TLVs, except for Multipath Data Sub-TLV and
>         Interface Index Sub-TLV, are set/added to DDMAP to describe
>         this LAG interface, as per [RFC6424].
>
>[new]
>      *  In the DDMAP, Multipath Data Sub-TLV and Interface Index Sub-
>         TLV are to describe each LAG member link.  All other fields of
>         the DDMAP are to describe the LAG interface.

<Nagendra> Sounds good.
>
>>=20
>>=20
>> In section 3, the below 2 statements appears to be redundant. Do we
>>really
>> need both?.
>>=20
>> "*  For each LAG member link of this LAG interface:
>>=20
>>          +  MUST add Interface Index Sub-TLV (described in Section 7)
>>             with LAG Member Link Indicator flag set in Interface Index
>>             Flags, describing this LAG member link.
>>=20
>>          +  MUST add Multipath Data Sub-TLV for this LAG member link, if
>>             received DDMAP requested multipath information.
>>=20
>>    Each LAG member link is described with Interface Index Sub-TLV and
>>    conditionally with Multipath Data Sub-TLV (if multipath information
>>    is requested). "
>
>True. Let me re-word this one too.
>
>[old]
>   Each LAG member link is described with Interface Index Sub-TLV and
>   conditionally with Multipath Data Sub-TLV (if multipath information
>   is requested).  If both Sub-TLVs are placed in the DDMAP to describe
>   a LAG member link, Interface Index Sub-TLV MUST be added first with
>   Multipath Data Sub-TLV immediately following.
>
>[new]
>   When both the Interface Index Sub-TLV and the Multipath Data Sub-TLV
>   is placed in the DDMAP to describe a LAG member link, Interface Index
>   Sub-TLV MUST be added first with Multipath Data Sub-TLV immediately
>   following.

<Nagendra> Sounds good.

>
>>=20
>>=20
>> Section 4 says the inclusion of Detailed interface TLV is a MUST while
>> section 8 sys it is a MAY statement as below,
>>=20
>> section 4:
>> "
>> Responder LSR MUST:
>>=20
>>    o  Add LAG Interface Info TLV in the MPLS echo reply to provide
>>       acknowledgement back to the initiator.  Upstream LAG Info
>>       Accommodation flag MUST be set in LAG Interface Info Flags.
>>=20
>>    o  Add the Detailed Interface and Label Stack TLV (described in
>>       Section 8) in the MPLS echo reply.
>> "
>>=20
>> section 8:
>> "The Detailed Interface and Label Stack object is a TLV that MAY be
>>    included in a MPLS echo reply message to report the interface on
>>    which the MPLS echo request message was received and the label stack
>>    that was on the packet when it was received.  A responder LSR MUST
>>    NOT insert more than one instance of this TLV. "
>>=20
>
>Right, perhaps above snippet being preceded by the initiating LSR sending
>the MPLS echo request with DS Flags I bit set is not sufficient to elude
>that responder is functioning with an assumption that it needs to include
>interface/label-stack TLV. Let me change some texts:
>
>[old]
>   o  Add the Detailed Interface and Label Stack TLV (described in
>      Section 8) in the MPLS echo reply.
>
>   o  Add the Incoming Interface Index Sub-TLV (described in
>      Section 8.1.2) for LAG interfaces.  The LAG Member Link Indicator
>      flag MUST be set in Interface Index Flags, and the incoming
>      Interface Index set to LAG member link which received the MPLS
>      echo request.
>
>[new]
>   o  When the received DDMAP had DS Flags I set, add the Detailed
>      Interface and Label Stack TLV (described in Section 8) in the MPLS
>      echo reply.
>
>   o  When the received DDMAP had DS Flags I set, add the Incoming
>      Interface Index Sub-TLV (described in Section 8.1.2) for LAG
>      interfaces.  The LAG Member Link Indicator flag MUST be set in
>      Interface Index Flags, and the incoming Interface Index set to LAG
>      member link which received the MPLS echo request.

<Nagendra> Ok.

>
>>=20
>>=20
>> Section 7 specifies as below,
>> "The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by the
>>    upstream LSR to the interface."
>>=20
>> Can you also point some reference to what type of index is it?. Is it
>> something assigned and advertised by LAG protocol like LACP or PAGP?.
>
>It's a locally allocated persistent index for local interfaces. It may or
>may not be advertised, and that's not really important for this context.
>We are just interested in getting a unique value (local to that node)
>that identifies a specific interface. I could add more texts, but the
>description on this sub-TLV was mostly ported from RFC4379. I think it's
>ok as is.

<Nagendra> Ok. So the responder will include the locally assigned index
value (of the egress interface) to this Sub-TLV and reply back. So should
we modify the below statement?,

"The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by the
   upstream LSR to the interface.=B2

I think it is not the upstream LSR to the interface right?.

>
>>=20
>> In association to above, Section 4 states the below,
>>=20
>> "Note that defined procedures will provide a deterministic result for
>>    LAG interfaces that are back-to-back connected between routers (i.e.
>>    no L2 switch in between).  If there is a L2 switch between LSR at
>>    TTL=3Dn and LSR at TTL=3Dn+1, there is no guarantee that traversal of
>>    every LAG member link at TTL=3Dn will result in reaching different
>>    interface index at TTL=3Dn+1."
>>=20
>> When there is L2 switch(es) in between, the LAG termination/negotiation
>> wil be between the LSR and L2 switch and so we may need some way to
>> exchange the Interface Index for each LAG member via L2 switch to be
>> exchanged between the LSRs. I am not aware of such exchange. If I am
>> missing something, I think it is worth referring the same for clarity :)
>
>That is exactly why L2-in-between is outside the scope of this document
>:) Appendix A describes various flavors and why it is complicated to
>extend support for those flavors.

<Nagendra> Ok.
>
>>=20
>> Does the below sounds like a (direct) SHOULD statement?
>>=20
>> "If the responder LSR is able to accommodate this request,
>>    then the LAG Interface Info object MUST be included in the MPLS echo
>>    reply message."
>>=20
>> In the below topology,
>>=20
>>         +-------+
>>              |       |
>>      A-------B=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DC-------E
>>              |       |       |
>>              +-------D-------G
>>=20
>> Assume A is validating all ECMP paths from A to G. Assume the metric
>>from
>> B to D is 2 and rest all link are 1. So it will be
>>=20
>> A-B-LAG-C-E-G
>> A-B-LAG-C-D-G
>> A-B-D-G
>>=20
>> Assume the list of multipath data is (1-10)
>>=20
>> Now B will reply as below,
>>=20
>> (1,2,3) - {Link1, Downstream:C}
>> (4,5,6) - {Link2 Downstream:C}
>> (7,8,9,10) - {LinkBC, Downstream:D}
>>=20
>> A will then send 2 request as below:
>>=20
>> Echo1 (to C) - (multipath:1,2,3,4,5,6),
>> Echo2 (to D) - (multipath:7,8,9,10)
>>=20
>> C will reply back with
>>=20
>> (1,2,3) - {LinkCE, Downstream E}
>> (4,5,6) - {LinkCD, Downstream D}
>>=20
>> So we dont have anything common between Link2 of LAG and downtream E.
>> Similarly we dont have anyhting common between Link1 of LAG and
>> downstream D (from C). I think we need the downstream node of LAG to
>> reply back with multipath info for each downstream from each LAG range.
>> Any thoughts?.
>
>The main problem with above example is that the range of multipath info
>is too small, thus you ran out of intersect in the downstream.
>Additionally, if I was to implement this, then I would not carry over
>treating each LAG member link separately in the LSP Tree Trace
>operations, once TTL=3Dn+1 is reached. Once LAG merges to a same downstrea=
m
>node, then I would aggregate the result and move forward in the
>downstream (i.e. treat the LAG as one logical interface).

<Nagendra> Ok. Let me check this.

Thanks,
Nagendra

>
>Thanks!
>
>-Nobo
>
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Nagendra
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 6/13/14, 5:33 PM, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> >FYI, new LSP Ping extension draft.
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya
>> >> (nobo)
>> >> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:15 PM
>> >> To: mpls@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: [mpls] FW: New Version Notification for
>> >>draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
>> >> lag-multipath-00.txt
>> >>
>> >> Dear MPLS WG,
>> >>
>> >> On MPLS data plane, one aspect which OAM is blind to traffic black
>> >>holing is  when LSPs are traversing over LAG interfaces. We would like
>> >>to propose an  extension to RFC4379 to provide the tool an ability to
>> >>discover and traverse  LAG members.
>> >>
>> >> It will be very helpful if you could review this document, provide
>> >>comments  and help us standardize this extension.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> -Nobo, on behalf of authors
>> >>
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> >> > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:04 PM
>> >> > To: John E. Drake; Nobo Akiya (nobo); George Swallow (swallow);
>> >> > George Swallow (swallow); Bruno Decraene; Stephane Litkowski; Bruno
>> >> > Decraene; Nobo Akiya (nobo); John Drake; Stephane Litkowski
>> >> > Subject: New Version Notification for
>> >> > draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag- multipath-00.txt
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > A new version of I-D,
>> >> > draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
>> >> > has been successfully submitted by Nobo Akiya and posted to the
>> >> > IETF repository.
>> >> >
>> >> > Name:		draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath
>> >> > Revision:	00
>> >> > Title:		Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath
>> Support for
>> >> > Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces
>> >> > Document date:	2014-06-13
>> >> > Group:		Individual Submission
>> >> > Pages:		18
>> >> > URL:
>> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
>> >> > lag-multipath-00.txt
>> >> > Status:
>> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>> >> > multipath/
>> >> > Htmlized:
>> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>> >> > multipath-00
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Abstract:
>> >> >    This document defines an extension to the Multiprotocol Label
>> >> >    Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute
>>to
>> >> >    describe Multipath Information for Link Aggregation (LAG) member
>> >> >    links separately, thus allowing MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to
>> >> >    discover and exercise specific paths of layer 2 Equal-Cost
>> >>Multipath
>> >> >    (ECMP) over LAG interfaces.
>> >> >
>> >> >    This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> >> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> >> tools.ietf.org.
>> >> >
>> >> > The IETF Secretariat
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> mpls mailing list
>> >> mpls@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>


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Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 16:26:54 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
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I am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Stewart

On 07/07/2014 15:12, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> This is to start an IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to 
> draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)


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From nobody Mon Jul  7 08:33:56 2014
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From: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" <msiva@cisco.com>
To: "Sagar Soni (sagsoni)" <sagsoni@cisco.com>, "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" <stbryant@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
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I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft.

Thanks,
Siva

-----Original Message-----
From: Sagar Soni (sagsoni)=20
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:33 AM
To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org
Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf=
.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Subject: RE: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return

I am also not aware of IPR related to this draft.

Thanks,
Sagar

-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart Bryant (stbryant)
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:27 AM
To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org
Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf=
.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
Subject: Re: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return

I am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Stewart

On 07/07/2014 15:12, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> This is to start an IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to=20
> draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=20
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond=20
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any=20
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a=20
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author=20
> or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware=20
> of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules=
.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)


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From nobody Mon Jul  7 11:03:32 2014
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:03:06 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Loa,

My positive opinion on this draft has not changed since my previous email
on it. I support it as a WG document.

Cheers,
Andy


On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
>
> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us
> that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus
> to make it a working group document.
>
> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>
> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
> adoption poll.
>
> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
> (mpls@ietf.org)
>
> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>
> /Loa
> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Loa,<div><br></div><div>My positive opinion on this draft =
has not changed since my previous email on it. I support it as a WG documen=
t.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Loa Ande=
rsson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">=
loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Working Group,<br>
<br>
<br>
The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-<u></u>return has informed us<br>
that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus<br>
to make it a working group document.<br>
<br>
This mail starts a two week adoption poll.<br>
<br>
We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the<br>
adoption poll.<br>
<br>
There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.<br>
<br>
Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list<br>
(<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>)<br>
<br>
This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!<br>
<br>
/Loa<br>
for the mpls wg co-chairs<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br=
>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">loa@mail01.huawei.com</a><br>
Senior MPLS Expert =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_b=
lank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Huawei Technologies (consultant) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%=
20739%2081%2021%2064" value=3D"+46739812164" target=3D"_blank">+46 739 81 2=
1 64</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E7AC7eusaamb103erics_--


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" <mustapha.aissaoui@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>, "jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com" <jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com>, Harish Sitaraman <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, Kapil Arora <kapilaro@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02
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Hi Jeffrey,

Please see in-line.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang [mailto:zzhang@juniper.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:00 AM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com; Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
> reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> mode-simple-02
>=20
> Nobo,
>=20
> Sorry for the late response. Holidays.

No problem, and thanks for getting back!

>=20
> I am not sure if it is necessary to have the flexibility of (2), but it i=
s always
> good to have the flexibility if it does not introduce much complexity. If=
 we
> allow multiple mode 5, then (2) is achieved.
>=20
> I'll leave this up to you.

I believe (1) strikes the right balance between flexibility vs. complexity.=
 I will add some text describing this usage.

Thanks!

-Nobo
=20
>=20
> Jeffrey
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 8:58 PM
> > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha
> > (Mustapha); jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com; Harish Sitaraman; Kapil
> > Arora
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-
> > ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> > mode-simple-02
> >
> > Hi Jeffrey,
> >
> > Thank you for reviewing this document.
> >
> > > I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to
> > > be specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode
> > > Order
> > TLV"
> > > and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).
> >
> > Interesting, I do find what you suggested to be useful. I went back to
> > RFC7110 and read up on the Reply Path TLV definition. The TLV can
> > contain zero, one or more FECs.
> >
> >    Reply Path:  It is used to describe the return path that an echo
> >       reply will be send along.  It is variable in length and can
> >       contain zero, one or more Target FEC sub-TLVs [RFC4379].
> >
> > So it appears that "Reply Mode 5" can be one of the entries in the
> > "Reply Mode Order TLV", and "Reply Path TLV" can contain multiple FECs.
> >
> > (1) What is possible as is:
> >   Pref#1: Reply Mode 4    Reply via application level control channel
> >   Pref#2a: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> First FEC listed
> >   Pref#2b: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> Second FEC liste=
d
> >   Pref#3: Reply Mode 2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
> >
> > (2) What is not possible as is:
> >   Pref#1: Reply Mode 4    Reply via application level control channel
> >   Pref#2: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> First FEC listed
> >   Pref#3: Reply Mode 2    Reply via an IPv4/IPv6 UDP packet
> >   Pref#4: Reply Mode 5    Reply via Specified Path -> Second FEC listed
> >
> > Granularity of really mixing up Reply Modes and return FECs like (2)
> > cannot be accomplished, but I'm not sure if we need such granularity
> > and I believe (1) is reasonable. If you are ok with this, then I think
> > it's worth adding texts to describe this usages. Do let us know you
> > preference.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Nobo
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
> > (Zhaohui)
> > > Zhang
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 12:08 PM
> > > To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> > > jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com; Harish Sitaraman; Kapil Arora
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-
> > ping-
> > > reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of
> > > draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-
> > > mode-simple-02
> > >
> > > I have reviewed the draft and believe it is ready for WG adoption
> > > consideration.
> > >
> > > I do have one suggestion - could we allow multiple return paths to
> > > be specified via multiple "Replay Mode 5" in the new "Reply Mode
> > > Order
> > TLV"
> > > and multiple Reply Path TLVs (currently it is not allowed).
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Jeffrey
> > > _____________________________________________
> > > From: Ross Callon
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:52 PM
> > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
> > > jeremy.whittaker@verizon.com
> > > Cc: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple@tools.ietf.org;
> > > mpls- chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
> > > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> > simple-
> > > 02
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff, Mustapha, Jeremy;
> > >
> > > You have been selected as MPLS Review team reviewers for
> > > draft-akiya- mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-02.
> > >
> > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can
> > > know
> > that
> > > this review is going on. However, please do not review your own
> > document.
> > > Also please don't update the draft while the reviews are in progress
> > (we
> > > would like the reviewers to all review the same version).
> > >
> > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> > useful
> > > (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks),
> > > and
> > is the
> > > document technically sound?=A0 Also, is the text and grammar
> > understandable
> > > (it doesn't need to be perfect at this point, but should be
> > > reasonably
> > clear).
> > > We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be
> > > considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at
> > > this
> > point,
> > > but should be a good start).
> > >
> > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG
> > > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary,
> > > Comments
> > may
> > > be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
> > >
> > > Are you able to review this draft by July 2, 2014?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Ross
> > > (as MPLS WG chair)
> > >


From nobody Mon Jul  7 16:52:58 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHPh0sKZ/vjNgoGA02gD6R1/DNUlZtviMsAgAAGuSCAAWXvgIAMTauggBet8gCAAHYg8A==
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 23:52:51 +0000
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References: <20140613210400.13388.18750.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E1E41EA@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E1E4244@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFC20459.19B1B%naikumar@cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E243750@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFE0224C.2AE6D%naikumar@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Nagendra,

Thanks for further comments!
Please see in-line.

> >> From section 3, It appears that responder MUST set the LAG Info TLV.
> >>Is it the  case even if the downstream is not LAG?. Or did you meant
> >>that if the  responder have LAG based donwstream interface, then it
> >>MUST include the  TLV?.
> >
> >First bullet in the last portion of the Section 3 was exactly to
> >explain why this is a MUST, but clearly additional text will be
> >helpful. How about we update the bullet:
> >
> >[old]
> >   o  Identify whether responder LSR understands this mechanism.
> >
> >[new]
> >   o  Mandating the responder to always add the LAG Interface Info TLV
> >      in the MPLS echo reply allows the initiating LSR to identify
> >      whether responder LSR understands this mechanism.
>=20
> <Nagendra> I am trying to understand the behavior when a responder wants
> back to echo received with LAG Interface Info TLV. In figure 1, assume th=
ere
> is one more node connected to E (say F) and A wants to trace the path fro=
m
> A to F (via A-B-LAG-C-E-F). When C receives thhe echo with LAG interface
> Info  TLV, since it doenst have any upstream/downstream LAG interface, wi=
ll
> it still include the TLV in reply?. If so, is it like it unset both U/D b=
it?.

Good question. I think you meant E and not C, since C has LAG as upstream?

Assuming you were asking what will E send, then:

Even if E does not have any upstream/downstream LAG, E will still include L=
AG Intf Info TLV in the MPLS echo reply, if it understands this TLV. This i=
s how A learns whether or not E is capable of following the procedures desc=
ribed in this document. Otherwise lack of LAG upstream/downstream informati=
on becomes ambiguous to A: there is no upstream/downstream LAG on E vs. E d=
idn't understand the LAG procedures (i.e. ignored the option TLV and procee=
ded) but may have upstream/downstream LAG.

So, LAG Intf Info TLV in MPLS echo reply is to let the initiator know:
- Responder understands this mechanism.
- U bit to indicate that responder is capable of providing Detailed Interfa=
ce and Label Stack TLV.
- D bit to indicate that responder is capable of providing DDMAP with LAG i=
nfo.

I wanted to break up the (U)pstream and (D)ownstream capabilities, since on=
 some products, doing one could be more difficult than the other one.

> >> Section 7 specifies as below,
> >> "The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by the
> >>    upstream LSR to the interface."
> >>
> >> Can you also point some reference to what type of index is it?. Is it
> >> something assigned and advertised by LAG protocol like LACP or PAGP?.
> >
> >It's a locally allocated persistent index for local interfaces. It may
> >or may not be advertised, and that's not really important for this conte=
xt.
> >We are just interested in getting a unique value (local to that node)
> >that identifies a specific interface. I could add more texts, but the
> >description on this sub-TLV was mostly ported from RFC4379. I think
> >it's ok as is.
>=20
> <Nagendra> Ok. So the responder will include the locally assigned index
> value (of the egress interface) to this Sub-TLV and reply back. So should=
 we
> modify the below statement?,
>=20
> "The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by the
>    upstream LSR to the interface.=B2
>=20
> I think it is not the upstream LSR to the interface right?.

Hmm... yes, that text was copied from RFC4379, but it's a bit confusing. Le=
t me change that:

[old]
   The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by the
   upstream LSR to the interface.

[new]
   The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by this
   LSR to the interface.

Would that work?

Thanks!

-Nobo



From nobody Mon Jul  7 18:06:44 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Nobo and authors,

Slow in catching up on this ID.

I have some basic questions about the draft. Want to get them clarified =
before doing a detailed review.

1. I thought the ECMP is about the LSP's and not about L3 interfaces or =
L2 interfaces. i.e. at MPLS LSP level where LSP's are established =
irrespective of L3 or L2 interfaces. But section 1.2. talks about L3 and =
L2 and implies that RFC4379 does only L3 interfaces ECMP, could you =
kindly clarify? Atleast as I read RFC4379 section 4.1 doesn't =
distinguish as defined in this draft.

2. Could you clarify the following? In the case of LAG interface, for a =
given FEC, will there be different label stack for each sub-interface =
type? If not, i.e. same label stack but differ sub i.f, which multipath =
type one could use to determine hash computation?

3. If in Q #2 Label stack there exists different label stack for each =
lag member, is there a downside to using separate DDMAP for each LAG =
member? i.e. w/o any enhancement?

4. Also, how is DDMAP interface info validated? I believe the LAG member =
link # is local. What all fields being validated for LAG interface?

Responses will clarify for me to review better. :D

-sam


On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:14 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Dear MPLS WG,
>=20
> On MPLS data plane, one aspect which OAM is blind to traffic black =
holing is when LSPs are traversing over LAG interfaces. We would like to =
propose an extension to RFC4379 to provide the tool an ability to =
discover and traverse LAG members.
>=20
> It will be very helpful if you could review this document, provide =
comments and help us standardize this extension.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo, on behalf of authors
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:04 PM
>> To: John E. Drake; Nobo Akiya (nobo); George Swallow (swallow); =
George
>> Swallow (swallow); Bruno Decraene; Stephane Litkowski; Bruno =
Decraene;
>> Nobo Akiya (nobo); John Drake; Stephane Litkowski
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>> multipath-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> A new version of I-D, draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Nobo Akiya and posted to the IETF
>> repository.
>>=20
>> Name:		draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath
>> Revision:	00
>> Title:		Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath =
Support for
>> Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces
>> Document date:	2014-06-13
>> Group:		Individual Submission
>> Pages:		18
>> URL:            =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
>> lag-multipath-00.txt
>> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>> multipath/
>> Htmlized:       =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>> multipath-00
>>=20
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>   This document defines an extension to the Multiprotocol Label
>>   Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute to
>>   describe Multipath Information for Link Aggregation (LAG) member
>>   links separately, thus allowing MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to
>>   discover and exercise specific paths of layer 2 Equal-Cost =
Multipath
>>   (ECMP) over LAG interfaces.
>>=20
>>   This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.
>>=20
>> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Mon Jul  7 18:41:56 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:41:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Sam,

Always appreciate your comments/questions :)

Please see in-line.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:07 PM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-pin=
g-
> lag-multipath-00.txt
>=20
> Hi Nobo and authors,
>=20
> Slow in catching up on this ID.
>=20
> I have some basic questions about the draft. Want to get them clarified
> before doing a detailed review.
>=20
> 1. I thought the ECMP is about the LSP's and not about L3 interfaces or L=
2
> interfaces. i.e. at MPLS LSP level where LSP's are established irrespecti=
ve of
> L3 or L2 interfaces. But section 1.2. talks about L3 and L2 and implies t=
hat
> RFC4379 does only L3 interfaces ECMP, could you kindly clarify? Atleast a=
s I
> read RFC4379 section 4.1 doesn't distinguish as defined in this draft.

RFC4379/RFC6424 do not explicitly spell this out, but it's the DDMAP (as we=
ll as DSMP) fields that imply L3.

      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |               MTU             | Address Type  |    DS Flags   |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |             Downstream IP Address (4 or 16 octets)            |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |         Downstream Interface Address (4 or 16 octets)         |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

And the Address Type can be:

         Type #        Address Type           K Octets
         ------        ------------           --------
              1        IPv4 Numbered                16
              2        IPv4 Unnumbered              16
              3        IPv6 Numbered                40
              4        IPv6 Unnumbered              28

Type 5 (Non IP) was also added by RFC6426 for TP.

If an LSR was to describe each LAG member in a DDMAP using procedures descr=
ibed in RFC4379/RFC6424, then all fields expect for Multipath Info will be =
exactly the same. This is sort of "weird" in the first place, but what is w=
orse is that this leads to the difficulty of the second portion of the draf=
t-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath, which is to validate the different tra=
versal for each LAG member.

>=20
> 2. Could you clarify the following? In the case of LAG interface, for a g=
iven
> FEC, will there be different label stack for each sub-interface type? If =
not,
> i.e. same label stack but differ sub i.f, which multipath type one could =
use
> to determine hash computation?

I think I understand your question ... but if my answers are not what you w=
ere asking, do elaborate. For a given FEC, the incoming & outgoing labels w=
ill be the same for all LAG members when traversing over a LAG to reach the=
 downstream. Of course SR could assign an Adj-SID for a LAG member, and exp=
licitly steer the packets over the specific LAG member, but it would no lon=
ger be considered to travel over the LAG at that point. Similar if RSVP was=
 to pin-down a specific LAG member. So the LAG is treated as one logical in=
terface by the label binding procedures, thus same labels for every LAG mem=
ber.

As far as how an incoming packet is load balanced to each LAG member, that =
could be, in the context of LSP trace, either destination IP addresses (mul=
tipath type {2, 4, 8}) or Entropy Labels (multipath type {9}) or both (mult=
ipath type {10}).

>=20
> 3. If in Q #2 Label stack there exists different label stack for each lag
> member, is there a downside to using separate DDMAP for each LAG
> member? i.e. w/o any enhancement?

Same label, see above.

>=20
> 4. Also, how is DDMAP interface info validated? I believe the LAG member
> link # is local. What all fields being validated for LAG interface?

When MPLS echo request traverses over all LAG members (i.e. different inter=
face index) to the nexthop, then the packets should have terminated on diff=
erent incoming LAG members at the downstream (different interface index).

For supported/unsupported scenarios, please view: http://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00#appendix-A

>=20
> Responses will clarify for me to review better. :D

Looking forward to seeing more comments from you, hopefully not as harsh as=
 the Reply Mode extension draft :)

Thanks!

-Nobo

>=20
> -sam
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:14 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> > Dear MPLS WG,
> >
> > On MPLS data plane, one aspect which OAM is blind to traffic black holi=
ng
> is when LSPs are traversing over LAG interfaces. We would like to propose
> an extension to RFC4379 to provide the tool an ability to discover and
> traverse LAG members.
> >
> > It will be very helpful if you could review this document, provide
> comments and help us standardize this extension.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Nobo, on behalf of authors
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> >> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:04 PM
> >> To: John E. Drake; Nobo Akiya (nobo); George Swallow (swallow);
> >> George Swallow (swallow); Bruno Decraene; Stephane Litkowski; Bruno
> >> Decraene; Nobo Akiya (nobo); John Drake; Stephane Litkowski
> >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
> >> multipath-00.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> A new version of I-D, draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
> >> has been successfully submitted by Nobo Akiya and posted to the IETF
> >> repository.
> >>
> >> Name:		draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath
> >> Revision:	00
> >> Title:		Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath
> Support for
> >> Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces
> >> Document date:	2014-06-13
> >> Group:		Individual Submission
> >> Pages:		18
> >> URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-akiya-mpls-l=
sp-
> ping-
> >> lag-multipath-00.txt
> >> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-=
ping-
> lag-
> >> multipath/
> >> Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-l=
ag-
> >> multipath-00
> >>
> >>
> >> Abstract:
> >>   This document defines an extension to the Multiprotocol Label
> >>   Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute to
> >>   describe Multipath Information for Link Aggregation (LAG) member
> >>   links separately, thus allowing MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to
> >>   discover and exercise specific paths of layer 2 Equal-Cost Multipath
> >>   (ECMP) over LAG interfaces.
> >>
> >>   This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
> >>
> >> The IETF Secretariat
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Mon Jul  7 19:26:03 2014
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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 02:25:58 +0000
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References: <20140613210400.13388.18750.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E1E41EA@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E1E4244@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFC20459.19B1B%naikumar@cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E243750@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFE0224C.2AE6D%naikumar@cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E25DEAB@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com>
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Thanks, Nobo, for quick response.

Inline for my comments.
On Jul 7, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>=20
> Always appreciate your comments/questions :)
>=20
> Please see in-line.
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:07 PM
>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
>> lag-multipath-00.txt
>>=20
>> Hi Nobo and authors,
>>=20
>> Slow in catching up on this ID.
>>=20
>> I have some basic questions about the draft. Want to get them =
clarified
>> before doing a detailed review.
>>=20
>> 1. I thought the ECMP is about the LSP's and not about L3 interfaces =
or L2
>> interfaces. i.e. at MPLS LSP level where LSP's are established =
irrespective of
>> L3 or L2 interfaces. But section 1.2. talks about L3 and L2 and =
implies that
>> RFC4379 does only L3 interfaces ECMP, could you kindly clarify? =
Atleast as I
>> read RFC4379 section 4.1 doesn't distinguish as defined in this =
draft.
>=20
> RFC4379/RFC6424 do not explicitly spell this out, but it's the DDMAP =
(as well as DSMP) fields that imply L3.
>=20
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |               MTU             | Address Type  |    DS Flags   |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |             Downstream IP Address (4 or 16 octets)            |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |         Downstream Interface Address (4 or 16 octets)         |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=20
> And the Address Type can be:
>=20
>         Type #        Address Type           K Octets
>         ------        ------------           --------
>              1        IPv4 Numbered                16
>              2        IPv4 Unnumbered              16
>              3        IPv6 Numbered                40
>              4        IPv6 Unnumbered              28
>=20
> Type 5 (Non IP) was also added by RFC6426 for TP.
May be the wording in your draft should change, because neither RFC =
explicitly say that. It could be just that LAG interface type was not =
explicitly identified.=20
>=20
> If an LSR was to describe each LAG member in a DDMAP using procedures =
described in RFC4379/RFC6424, then all fields expect for Multipath Info =
will be exactly the same. This is sort of "weird" in the first place, =
but what is worse is that this leads to the difficulty of the second =
portion of the draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath, which is to =
validate the different traversal for each LAG member.
ok
>=20
>>=20
>> 2. Could you clarify the following? In the case of LAG interface, for =
a given
>> FEC, will there be different label stack for each sub-interface type? =
If not,
>> i.e. same label stack but differ sub i.f, which multipath type one =
could use
>> to determine hash computation?
>=20
> I think I understand your question ... but if my answers are not what =
you were asking, do elaborate. For a given FEC, the incoming & outgoing =
labels will be the same for all LAG members when traversing over a LAG =
to reach the downstream. Of course SR could assign an Adj-SID for a LAG =
member, and explicitly steer the packets over the specific LAG member, =
but it would no longer be considered to travel over the LAG at that =
point. Similar if RSVP was to pin-down a specific LAG member. So the LAG =
is treated as one logical interface by the label binding procedures, =
thus same labels for every LAG member.
Few questions,

Because you mentioned it is L2 interfaces only, I was wondering whether =
L3 header is taken into consideration or not!=20
Secondly, assuming if member is not pinned to a specific LSP, is the =
validation for FEC? If so, how is that being done? when do you consider =
LSP ping/trace failure? As it is sub member failure, the interface is =
still running and packets are still fwd'd.=20

>=20
> As far as how an incoming packet is load balanced to each LAG member, =
that could be, in the context of LSP trace, either destination IP =
addresses (multipath type {2, 4, 8}) or Entropy Labels (multipath type =
{9}) or both (multipath type {10}).
You tripped me with L2 only interfaces/sub if. Hence the question, =
whether L3 header is taken into consideration.
>=20
>>=20
>> 3. If in Q #2 Label stack there exists different label stack for each =
lag
>> member, is there a downside to using separate DDMAP for each LAG
>> member? i.e. w/o any enhancement?
>=20
> Same label, see above.
>=20
>>=20
>> 4. Also, how is DDMAP interface info validated? I believe the LAG =
member
>> link # is local. What all fields being validated for LAG interface?
>=20
> When MPLS echo request traverses over all LAG members (i.e. different =
interface index) to the nexthop, then the packets should have terminated =
on different incoming LAG members at the downstream (different interface =
index).
>=20
> For supported/unsupported scenarios, please view: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00#appe=
ndix-A
I think appendix sections are very imp to consider and should be in main =
sections.

=46rom high level, this addition will help discover various LAG members =
associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is difficult to =
validate against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LAG member sent =
cannot be validated. If it is indeed could be validated, should be =
documented in the ID.=20

>=20
>>=20
>> Responses will clarify for me to review better. :D
>=20
> Looking forward to seeing more comments from you, hopefully not as =
harsh as the Reply Mode extension draft :)
It is just a beginning and hope you won't conclude with reply mode 1. :D

-sam
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
>>=20
>> -sam
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:14 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> Dear MPLS WG,
>>>=20
>>> On MPLS data plane, one aspect which OAM is blind to traffic black =
holing
>> is when LSPs are traversing over LAG interfaces. We would like to =
propose
>> an extension to RFC4379 to provide the tool an ability to discover =
and
>> traverse LAG members.
>>>=20
>>> It will be very helpful if you could review this document, provide
>> comments and help us standardize this extension.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks!
>>>=20
>>> -Nobo, on behalf of authors
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:04 PM
>>>> To: John E. Drake; Nobo Akiya (nobo); George Swallow (swallow);
>>>> George Swallow (swallow); Bruno Decraene; Stephane Litkowski; Bruno
>>>> Decraene; Nobo Akiya (nobo); John Drake; Stephane Litkowski
>>>> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>>>> multipath-00.txt
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> A new version of I-D, =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
>>>> has been successfully submitted by Nobo Akiya and posted to the =
IETF
>>>> repository.
>>>>=20
>>>> Name:		draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath
>>>> Revision:	00
>>>> Title:		Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath
>> Support for
>>>> Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces
>>>> Document date:	2014-06-13
>>>> Group:		Individual Submission
>>>> Pages:		18
>>>> URL:            =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-
>> ping-
>>>> lag-multipath-00.txt
>>>> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
>> lag-
>>>> multipath/
>>>> Htmlized:       =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
>>>> multipath-00
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Abstract:
>>>>  This document defines an extension to the Multiprotocol Label
>>>>  Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute to
>>>>  describe Multipath Information for Link Aggregation (LAG) member
>>>>  links separately, thus allowing MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to
>>>>  discover and exercise specific paths of layer 2 Equal-Cost =
Multipath
>>>>  (ECMP) over LAG interfaces.
>>>>=20
>>>>  This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> tools.ietf.org.
>>>>=20
>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20


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From: Zhenlong Cui <c-sai@bx.jp.nec.com>
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Thread-Topic: MPLS-TP multi-failure protection
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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:56:08 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Yaacov,
    Sounds reasonable, but I'll need to see the new wording to be sure.

Thanks,
Lou
On 7/5/2014 3:49 PM, Yaacov Weingarten wrote:
>
> Lou, hi
> I would like to address two of your comments, in your follow-up
> message, since I am the source of the change in terminology.
>
> Regarding the two occurences of "assigned" in place of "utilized" -
> when I read the proposed changes,as discussed amongst the authors, I
> felt that in those two instances the use of "utilized" could lead to
> some ambiguity.
>
> If we state that "resources SHOULD be utilized on a first come first
> served basis" this could be interpreted (IMO) as referring to the
> packet level, rather than  utilized by a specific path, such that
> packets from different paths could be interspersed along the shared
> segments. Therefore,I suggested that or this context it would be
> better to use a word that meant that the first-come first served basis
> was at the level of assigning (or allocating) the resources rather
> than utilizing them.
>
> Hope this clarifies this point. I am certain that I speak for the
> other authors in  saying that I am open to other suggestions.
>
> BR,
> yaacov
>
> On Jul 4, 2014 3:53 AM, "Jeong Ryoo" <ryoo@etri.re.kr
> <mailto:ryoo@etri.re.kr>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Lou,
>
>      
>
>     Thanks a lot for your valuable comments.
>
>      
>
>     The authors of this draft have discussed your comments, and are
>     proposing our resolutions to your comments. Please, let us know if
>     the proposal is appropriate to address your comments and concerns.
>
>      
>
>     Best regards,
>
>      
>
>     Authors of draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements draft
>
>      
>
>     ****** Beginning of Comment Resolution ******
>
>      
>
>     - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
>     In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
>     distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
>     resources are "committed". This difference from past
>     definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
>     and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
>     *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
>     The distinction between protection and restoration is made based
>     on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span
>     establishment. The distinction between different types of
>     restoration is made based on the level of route computation,
>     signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration
>     LSP/span establishment.
>
>     This difference also leads to come confused statements in the
>     document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the
>     reader. The term "committed" is not tightly defined in this
>     document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how
>     "allocated" has been used. An example of this can be found in
>     Section 3.1 which states:
>
>     However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the
>     shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection
>     path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -
>     regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between
>     protection and restoration.
>
>     Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to
>     cover a "protection switch" would "connect" the protection path
>     but not the earlier "allocation" of resources. (Quoted terms are
>     used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new
>     distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with
>     the existing distinction.
>
>     This issue exists in multiple places in the document where
>     "committed" is used and I'd recommend that each should be replaced
>     with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., "allocation",
>     "connection", "cross-connect", "protection switch(over)", ...
>
>     Note I'm *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the
>     document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the
>     document where I think it's possible that once this terminology
>     ambiguity is corrected that I'll have other substantive comments.
>
>      
>
>     [Authors] After reviewing RFCs 4427, 6372, 3945, 4426, and 4428,
>     we concluded that the distinction between protection and
>     restoration should be aligned with the exiting documents
>     normatively referenced by this document. Accordingly, the
>     following 16 modifications will be done in revision:
>
>      
>
>     (1) Section 1, the third paragraph
>
>     OLD:
>
>     As pointed out
>
>     in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 linear protection requires
>
>     that resources are committed for use by both the working and
>
>     protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that the same
>
>     resources are committed, but allows the resources of the protection
>
>     path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     As pointed out
>
>     in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 protection requires
>
>     that resources are allocated for use by both the working and
>
>     protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that the same
>
>     resources are allocated, but allows the resources of the protection
>
>     path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.
>
>      
>
>     (2) The whole text in Section 3.1 will be replaced with:
>
>     [RFC6372], based upon the definitions in [RFC4427], differentiates
>     between "protection" and "restoration" dependent upon the dynamism
>     of the resource allocation. The same distinction is used in
>     [RFC3945], [RFC4426], and [RFC4428]. This document also uses the
>     same distinction between protection and restoration as stated in
>     [RFC6372].
>
>      
>
>     (3) In page 6,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     The use of preemption in the network is typically a business or
>
>     policy decision such that when protection resources are contended,
>
>     priority can be applied to determine to which parties the protection
>
>     resources are committed.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     The use of preemption in the network is typically a business or
>
>     policy decision such that when protection resources are contended,
>
>     priority can be applied to determine which parties utilize the
>     protection
>
>     resources.
>
>      
>
>     (4) Page 7, the first paragraph:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     the resources for the protection path are fully committed,
>
>     NEW
>
>     the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,
>
>      
>
>     OLD:
>
>     resources may be planned but would not be committed until …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     resources may be planned but would not be utilized until …
>
>      
>
>     (5) In the second paragraph in page 7,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     "Hard Preemption" requires the programming of selectors at the
>     ingress of each shared segment to specify which backup path has
>     the highest priority when committing protection resources, the
>     others being preempted.
>
>     NEW
>
>     "Hard Preemption" requires the programming of selectors at the
>     ingress of each shared segment to specify the priorities of backup
>     paths, so that traffic of lower priority paths can be preempted.
>
>      
>
>     (6) The first paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … and commit the associated resources. The commitment of resources
>
>     is dependent upon …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     … and coordinate the utilization of the associated shared resources.
>
>     The resource utilization coordination is dependent upon …
>
>      
>
>     (7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     When the reserved resources of the shared segments are committed to a
>
>     particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
>     available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
>     if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
>     switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to
>
>     optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing for cases of
>
>     multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the shared
>
>     resources are be coordinated between the different working paths in
>
>     the SMP network.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by a
>
>     particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
>     available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
>     if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
>     switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail. The
>     different working paths in
>
>     the SMP network are involved in the resource utilization
>     coordination. 
>
>     .
>
>      
>
>     (8) Section 5.1,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … and commit the associated resources.
>
>     NEW
>
>     … and coordinate the utilization of the associated shared resources.
>
>      
>
>     (9) In Section 5.1,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     In the case of multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the
>
>     shared resources SHALL be coordinated between the different working
>
>     paths in the SMP network.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     In the case of multiple working paths failing, the shared resource
>     utilization
>
>     coordination SHALL be between the different working
>
>     paths in the SMP network.
>
>      
>
>     (10) Section 5.1.1.
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … because they already have been committed to the protection of,
>     for example, a higher priority working path.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     … because they already have been utilized for the protection of,
>     for example, a higher priority working path.
>
>      
>
>     (11) Section 5.2, the second bullet item:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Resources of the shared segments SHALL be committed to the
>
>     protection path …
>
>     NEW:                
>
>     Resources of the shared segments SHALL be utilized by the
>
>     protection path …
>
>      
>
>     (12) Section 5.2, the third bullet item:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
>     allocation of the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
>     committed on a first come first served basis.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
>     the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
>     assigned on a first come first served basis.
>
>      
>
>     (13) Section 5.2, the fourth bullet item:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     If the protection resources are committed to a protection path,
>
>     whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
>     the higher priority path SHALL be committed to the higher priority
>
>     path.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     If the protection resources are utilized by a protection path,
>
>     whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
>     the higher priority path SHALL be assigned to the higher priority
>
>     path.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     (14) Section 5.2. the seventh bullet item
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Once resources of shared segments have been successfully committed
>
>     to a protection path, …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     Once resources of shared segments have been successfully utilized
>
>     by a protection path, …
>
>      
>
>     (15) Section 5.3, the first paragraph,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … request the commitment of protection resources. If the necessary
>
>     shared resources are unavailable to be committed to the protection
>
>     path, the endpoints …
>
>      
>
>     NEW:
>
>     … request the coordination of the shared resource utilization. If
>     the necessary
>
>     shared resources are unavailable, the endpoints …
>
>      
>
>     (16) Section 5.3, the second paragraph,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources currently
>
>     committed for a particular working path are …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources currently
>
>     utilized by a particular working path are …
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really
>     defines
>     the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
>     to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
>     requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
>     the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
>     3).
>
>     [Authors] We can add the following paragraph at the end of Section 1:
>
>     “This document is intended to clarify the instructions to protocol
>     designers producing solutions that satisfy the requirements set
>     out in this document.”
>
>      
>
>
>     - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
>     protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
>     I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
>     required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
>     case, but don't see this in the document.
>
>     [Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in
>     the PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and
>     RFC 7271 (PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as
>     unidirectional switching is allowed. This document does not impose
>     any restriction on co-routing, either.
>
>      
>
>
>     - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
>     preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
>     reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
>     in dependent of control plane.
>
>     [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and
>     hard preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not
>     exactly the case for SMP.
>
>      
>
>
>     - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
>     carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
>     GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
>     please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
>     control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
>     document.
>
>     [Authors] Yes, we will make the correction.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
>     referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
>     informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
>     mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
>     an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
>     you can say is MAY.
>
>     [Authors] The first case is the one we are aiming at. We will use
>     SHALL NOT.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
>     domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
>     rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
>     [Authors] The sentence can be rewritten as:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     In order to cover the situation where the first come first served
>     principle cannot resolve the contention among multiple equal
>     priority requests, i.e., when the requests occur simultaneously,,
>     tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
>     leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
>     do more / not just follow 6372?
>
>     [Authors] We can add the following sentence at the end:
>
>     “As described in [RFC6372], the event of preemption may be
>     detected by OAM and reported as a fault or a degradation of
>     traffic delivery.” 
>
>
>     - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on
>     soft-preemption as
>     well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
>     establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
>     independent of preemption mode.
>
>     [Authors] Yes, we will change the second paragraph from “SMP in
>     hard-preemption mode SHOULD …” to “SMP SHOULD …” and move the
>     changed paragraph above the first paragraph.
>
>      
>
>
>     Nits:
>
>     - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used
>     in any
>     earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
>     undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
>     "protection switch"?
>
>     [Authors] Yes, the term will be changed as you suggested.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
>     MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
>     document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
>     The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
>     critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
>     provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
>     for this document.
>
>     [Authors] The proposed text for the paragraph 1 is:
>
>     “The MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) is described in [RFC5921],
>
>     and [RFC6372] provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP
>
>     and is the foundation for this document.”
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
>     Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
>     4427/4428 don't use it.
>
>     [Authors] OK.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>     - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really
>     introductory
>     text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
>     [Authors] Section 3 was intended to present a reference model for
>     SMP. Some text of Section 2 is repeated in Section 1 as you
>     suggested earlier.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
>     solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
>     [Authors] [RFC4206] will be added as a reference
>
>
>     - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
>     [Authors] OK, the term will be changed.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
>     mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
>     protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
>     [Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, or as
>     closely as possible to provide fast protection.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted
>     requirements
>     list.
>
>     [Authors] OK, we will use numbers.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
>     both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
>     slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
>     requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
>     [Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the
>     fourth bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
>
>
>     - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
>     the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
>     [Authors] Yes, req 5 can be moved to Section 5.5.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it
>     should be
>     dropped.
>
>     [Authors] Yes, it will be deleted.
>
>
>     - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
>     just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
>     [Authors] Req. 9 will be deleted as it seems to require control
>     plane supports.
>
>
>
>     - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
>     [Authors] OK.
>
>      
>
>
>     - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
>     node not the path.
>
>     [Authors] Yes. We will simply say that “When the condition that
>     triggered the protection switching is cleared, …”
>
>
>     - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
>     the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
>     point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
>     made as a minor comment.)
>
>     [Authors] As in other protection switching technologies, two modes
>     of operations (revertive and non-revertive) are required.
>
>      
>
>
>     - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
>     [Authors] We will add “as described in [RFC6372]” to the ends of
>     two paragraphs for WTR timer and hold-off timer.
>
>      
>
>     ***** End of Comment resolution *****
>
>      
>      
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *보낸 사람 : *"Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net
>     <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>
>     *보낸 날짜 : *2014-06-22 01:00:48 ( +09:00 )
>     *받는 사람 : *rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org> <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>>
>     *참조 : *rtg-dir@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org>
>     <rtg-dir@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org>>,
>     draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org>
>     <draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org>>,
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mpls@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>
>     *제목 : *[mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
>
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this
>     draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or
>     routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG
>     review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is
>     to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information
>     about the
>     Routing Directorate, please see
>     http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
>     Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing
>     ADs, it
>     would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF
>     Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them
>     through
>     discussion or by updating the draft.
>
>     Document: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
>     Reviewer: Lou Berger
>     Review Date: June 21 2014
>     IETF LC End Date: 2014-06-23
>     Intended Status: Informational
>
>     Summary:
>     I have some minor concerns about this document that I think
>     should (must, actually) be resolved before publication.
>
>     Comments:
>
>     I think the document is well written and, other than a couple of
>     terminology related issues, easily understood. The document does
>     have a number of terminology and technical issues which should be
>     readily resolved prior to publication.
>
>     Major Issues:
>
>     Major issues are the type of concerns that will result in the
>     document being blocked until they are resolved. The Routing ADs will
>     become involved. Please include all of the major issues you have
>     found. Give as much context information as possible (e.g., section
>     numbers, paragraph counts). If you find no major issues, please
>     write: "No major issues found."
>
>     - No major issues found. In particular, I expect all issues can be
>     resolved without AD intervention. Some of the minor issues, if not
>     resolved will be escalated to the AD/major issue category.
>
>     Minor Issues:
>
>     Minor issues are concerns about clarity or technical accuracy that
>     should be discussed and resolved before publication, but which would
>     normally be resolved between the authors and the reviewers. Please
>     include all of the minor issues you have found. Give as much context
>     information as possible (e.g., section numbers, paragraph counts).
>     If you find no minor issues, please write: "No minor issues found."
>
>     - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
>     In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
>     distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
>     resources are "committed". This difference from past
>     definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
>     and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
>     *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
>     The distinction between protection and restoration is made based
>     on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span
>     establishment. The distinction between different types of
>     restoration is made based on the level of route computation,
>     signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration
>     LSP/span establishment.
>
>     This difference also leads to come confused statements in the
>     document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the
>     reader. The term "committed" is not tightly defined in this
>     document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how
>     "allocated" has been used. An example of this can be found in
>     Section 3.1 which states:
>
>     However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the
>     shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection
>     path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -
>     regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between
>     protection and restoration.
>
>     Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to
>     cover a "protection switch" would "connect" the protection path
>     but not the earlier "allocation" of resources. (Quoted terms are
>     used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new
>     distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with
>     the existing distinction.
>
>     This issue exists in multiple places in the document where
>     "committed" is used and I'd recommend that each should be replaced
>     with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., "allocation",
>     "connection", "cross-connect", "protection switch(over)", ...
>
>     Note I'm *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the
>     document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the
>     document where I think it's possible that once this terminology
>     ambiguity is corrected that I'll have other substantive comments.
>
>     - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really
>     defines
>     the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
>     to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
>     requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
>     the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
>     3).
>
>     - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
>     protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
>     I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
>     required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
>     case, but don't see this in the document.
>
>     - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
>     preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
>     reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
>     in dependent of control plane.
>
>     - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
>     carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
>     GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
>     please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
>     control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
>     document.
>
>     - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
>     referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
>     informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
>     mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
>     an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
>     you can say is MAY.
>
>     - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
>     domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
>     rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
>     - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
>     leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
>     do more / not just follow 6372?
>
>     - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on
>     soft-preemption as
>     well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
>     establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
>     independent of preemption mode.
>
>     Nits:
>
>     - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used
>     in any
>     earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
>     undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
>     "protection switch"?
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
>     MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
>     document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
>     The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
>     critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
>     provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
>     for this document.
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
>     Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
>     4427/4428 don't use it.
>
>     - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really
>     introductory
>     text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
>     - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
>     solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
>     - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
>     - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
>     mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
>     protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
>     - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted
>     requirements
>     list.
>
>     - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
>     both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
>     slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
>     requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
>     - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
>     the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
>     - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it
>     should be
>     dropped.
>
>     - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
>     just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
>     - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
>     - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
>     node not the path.
>
>     - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
>     the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
>     point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
>     made as a minor comment.)
>
>     - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)" <venggovi@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-vgovindan-mpls-extended-bfd-disc-tlv-00.txt
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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 01:23:42 +0000
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References: <20140704131127.29231.56989.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <315041E4211CB84E86EF7C25A2AB583D34623EBA@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E7AC7@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-vgovindan-mpls-extended-bfd-disc-tlv-00.txt
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Hi There,

We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection
(MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection=
/

We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to
review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on
the mailing list.



Thanks,

Weiqiang Cheng

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi There,</span></pre><pre><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">We uploaded the new version draft </span>=E2=80=9C<span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topolo=
gy</span>=E2=80=9D</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/</a></span></pre><pre><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help=
 to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on t=
he mailing list.</span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Than=
ks,</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Weiqiang Cheng</span></pre></div>

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From nobody Wed Jul  9 05:04:22 2014
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HI Bobo,

Thanks a lot for your questions. please see my answer in line:

1.  the different between "normal wrapping" and "P2P shout wrapping".

[WQ]: In Normal wrapping, protection switching executes at both nodes
neighbored failure respectively,so the  traffic will be wrapped twice. For
Short wrapping protection, switching only executes at up-stream node which
neighbored to failure,the destination node will extract the flow from the
protection ring directly.This scheme can optimize latency and bandwidth.

2.  can i use the RING APS protocol defined in G.8132 to implement the
scheme of this document.

[WQ]: As I know G.8132 is a draft in ITU-T and ITU-T seams no release plan
for it now. The principle is similar. But this draft's ring construction is
totally different from G.8132.

3.  for the 'dual-node interconnected rings', there must be the same
forwarding information between node C and node D in figure 11?

[WQ]: Yes, Node C and Node D should sync the forwarding information of LSPs
that traverse the interconnected rings, so that both interconnection nodes
can terminate the source ring runnel and forward it to the correct
destination ring tunnel in interconnected ring.

B.R.
Weiqiang Cheng


2014-07-09 19:07 GMT+08:00 =E6=9B=BE=E5=B3=BB=E6=B3=A2 <zjbdamo@hotmail.com=
>:

> hi,Weiqiang Cheng
>       i have some question about the
> "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-02".
>   1.  the different between "normal wrapping" and "P2P shout wrapping".
>   2.  can i use the RING APS protocol defined in G.8132 to implement the
> scheme of this document.
>   3.  for the 'dual-node interconnected rings', there must be the same
> forwarding information between node C and node D in figure 11?
>
> Best Regards!
> BoBo
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 18:41:01 +0800
> From: chengwq@gmail.com
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> CC: draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
> protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?
>
>
> Hi There,
>
> We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection=
 (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protecti=
on/
>
> We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to revie=
w it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on the mailin=
g list.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Weiqiang Cheng
>
>
> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--001a11390c9cbe117e04fdc18138
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">HI Bobo,<div><br></div><div><div style><font face=3D"arial=
, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Thanks a lot for your question=
s. please see my answer in line:</span></font></div><div style><font face=
=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>
</span></font></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px">1. =C2=A0the different between &quot;normal wrapping&qu=
ot; and &quot;P2P shout wrapping&quot;.</span></font></div><div style><font=
 face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>
</span></font></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px">[WQ]: In Normal wrapping, protection switching executes=
 at both nodes neighbored failure respectively,so the =C2=A0traffic will be=
 wrapped twice. For Short wrapping protection, switching only executes at u=
p-stream node which neighbored to failure,the destination node will extract=
 the flow from the protection ring directly.This scheme can optimize latenc=
y and bandwidth.</span></font></div>
<div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">=
<br></span></font></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14px">2. =C2=A0can i use the RING APS protocol defined in=
 G.8132 to implement the scheme of this document.</span></font></div>
<div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">=
<br></span></font></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14px">[WQ]: As I know G.8132 is a draft in ITU-T and ITU-=
T seams no release plan for it now. The principle is similar. But this draf=
t&#39;s ring construction is totally different from G.8132.</span></font></=
div>
<div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">=
<br></span></font></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14px">3. =C2=A0for the &#39;dual-node interconnected ring=
s&#39;, there must be the same forwarding information between node C and no=
de D in figure 11?</span></font></div>
<div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">=
<br></span></font></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14px">[WQ]: Yes, Node C and Node D should sync the forwar=
ding information of LSPs that traverse the interconnected rings, so that bo=
th interconnection nodes can terminate the=C2=A0</span></font><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">source ring runnel and for=
ward it to the correct destination ring tunnel in interconnected ring.</spa=
n></div>
</div><div style><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif=
"><br></span></div><div style><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:ari=
al,sans-serif">B.R.</span></div><div style><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"=
><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Weiqiang Cheng</span></font></div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-07=
-09 19:07 GMT+08:00 =E6=9B=BE=E5=B3=BB=E6=B3=A2 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:zjbdamo@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">zjbdamo@hotmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div><div dir=3D"ltr">hi,Weiqiang Cheng<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 i=
 have some question about the &quot;draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protect=
ion-02&quot;.<br>=C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 the different between &quot;normal wrappin=
g&quot; and &quot;P2P shout wrapping&quot;.<br>
=C2=A0 2.=C2=A0 can i use the RING APS protocol defined in G.8132 to implem=
ent the scheme of this document.<br>=C2=A0 3.=C2=A0 for the &#39;dual-node =
interconnected rings&#39;, there must be the same forwarding information be=
tween node C and node D in figure 11?<br>
<br>Best Regards! <br>BoBo<br><br><br><div><hr>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 18:41:=
01 +0800<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:chengwq@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ch=
engwq@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
CC: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ie=
tf.org</a><br>Subject: [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP S=
hared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?<div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi The=
re,</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We uploaded the new version draft=
 </span>=E2=80=9C<span lang=3D"EN-US">MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP)=
 mechanism for ring topology</span>=E2=80=9D</pre>

<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/</a></span></pre=
>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We authors would like to see comments on this dra=
ft. Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send you=
r comments on the mailing list.</span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Than=
ks,</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Weiqiang Cheng</span></pre></div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11390c9cbe117e04fdc18138--


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From: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" <msiva@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Support as an author.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:59 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-r=
eturn an mpls working group document

Working Group,


The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us that the dr=
aft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus to make it a working =
group document.

This mail starts a two week adoption poll.

We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the adopt=
ion poll.

There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.

Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
(mpls@ietf.org)

This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!

/Loa
for the mpls wg co-chairs

--=20


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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To: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" <msiva@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Support to adopt  this as a working group draft.
/himanshu

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Siva Sivabalan (msiv=
a)
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 8:30 AM
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Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpl=
s-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document

Support as an author.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:59 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-r=
eturn an mpls working group document

Working Group,


The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us that the dr=
aft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus to make it a working =
group document.

This mail starts a two week adoption poll.

We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the adopt=
ion poll.

There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.

Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
(mpls@ietf.org)

This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!

/Loa
for the mpls wg co-chairs

--=20


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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=0A  <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"33" SemiHidden=3D"false"=
=0A   UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Book Title"></w:Ls=
dException>=0A  <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"37" Name=3D"B=
ibliography"></w:LsdException>=0A  <w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priori=
ty=3D"39" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"TOC Heading"></w:LsdException>=0A </w:L=
atentStyles>=0A</xml><![endif]-->=0A<!--[if gte mso 10]>=0A<style>=0A /* S=
tyle Definitions */=0A table.MsoNormalTable=0A	{mso-style-name:=E6=99=AE=
=E9=80=9A=E8=A1=A8=E6=A0=BC;=0A	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;=0A	mso-tstyle-c=
olband-size:0;=0A	mso-style-noshow:yes;=0A	mso-style-priority:99;=0A	mso-s=
tyle-parent:"";=0A	mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;=0A	mso-para-margin=
:0cm;=0A	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;=
=0A	font-size:10.5pt;=0A	mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;=0A	font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";=0A	mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;=0A	mso-ascii-theme-font=
:minor-latin;=0A	mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;=0A	mso-hansi-theme-font:mi=
nor-latin;=0A	mso-font-kerning:1.0pt;}=0A</style>=0A<![endif]-->=0A<!--Sta=
rtFragment-->=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:=
 justify; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibr=
i, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 14.5pt; font-fami=
ly: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi Wei qiang,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A<p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: justify; margin: 0cm=
 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 14.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'=
, serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"l=
eft" style=3D"text-align: justify; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10=
.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size: 14.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I have a comment=
=0Aon the <span style=3D"background-position: initial initial; background-=
repeat: initial initial;">"RPS request code"=0Ain&nbsp;3.1.2 &nbsp;RPS PDU=
 structure. Could MSRP be extended to support=0A"Signal Degrade (SD)" as a=
 trigger condition?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A<!--EndFragment--=
></div>=0A<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: window;">=
&nbsp;</span></div>=0A<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times Ne=
w Roman">2014-07-09</div>=0A<hr style=3D"height: 1px; width: 210px;" align=
=3D"left" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1">=0A<div><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; COLOR: #000000">=0A<p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"text-align: left; margin: 0px 0cm; text-indent: 0cm;" ali=
gn=3D"left"><span style=3D"font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; text-indent: =
0cm; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: window;">Best =
=0ARegards</span></p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana',=
 'sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: =E5=AE=
=8B=E4=BD=93; mso-bidi-font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; mso-font-kerning: =
0pt"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; CO=
LOR: #000000">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: left; margin:=
 0px 0cm; text-indent: 0cm;" align=3D"left"><span style=3D"font-family: Ve=
rdana, sans-serif; text-indent: 0cm; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; =
background-color: window;">LI&nbsp;Fang</span></p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"text-align: left; margin: 0px 0cm; text-indent: 0cm;" align=3D"=
left"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana', 'sans-serif'; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; m=
so-bidi-font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p style=
=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"></o:p></span></p>=0A<p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"text-align: left; margin: 0px 0cm; text-indent: 0cm;" a=
lign=3D"left"><br></p></span></span></span></div></div>=0A<div style=3D"BO=
RDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: med=
ium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; BORDER=
-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm">=0A<div style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #b5c4=
df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDI=
NG-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium n=
one; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm">=0A<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; BACKGROUND: #ef=
efef; COLOR: #000000; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px; PADDING-LEFT:=
 8px; PADDING-RIGHT: 8px">=0A<div><b>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A<=
/b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:chengwq@gmail.com">weiqiang cheng</a></div>=0A<=
div><b>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A</b>&nbsp;2014-07-09&n=
bsp;12:41</div>=0A<div><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</b>&nbsp;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a></div>=0A<div><b>=E6=8A=84=
=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-r=
ing-protection@tools.ietf.org">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@=
tools.ietf.org</a></div>=0A<div><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A</b>&nbsp;[m=
pls][MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MS=
RP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?</div></div></div>=0A<div>&nbsp;=
</div>=0A<div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20140709144548351522"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi There,</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">W=
e uploaded the new version draft </span>=E2=80=9C<span lang=3D"EN-US">MPLS=
-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology</span>=E2=80=
=9D</pre>=0A<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/</a></span></pre><p=
re><span lang=3D"EN-US">We authors would like to see comments on this draf=
t. Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send you=
r comments on the mailing list.</span></pre>=0A<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&=
nbsp;</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,</span></pre><pre><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">Weiqiang Cheng</span></pre></div>=0A</div></div></div>=0A<=
/body></html>
------=_001_NextPart513046328684_=------



From nobody Wed Jul  9 12:59:00 2014
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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 21:58:53 +0200
From: Huub van Helvoort <huubatwork@gmail.com>
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References: <CABYGD0GzNk0Yp12Rw5mPFFhPA1Svnh6tzX7HHwtBdQA1152dcw@mail.gmail.com> <2014070914515461242528@catr.cn>
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Cc: "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?q?=5BMPLS=5D_Any_comments_on_the_draft_of_MPLS-TP_?= =?utf-8?q?Shared-Ring_protection_=28MSRP=29_mechanism_for_ring_topology?= =?utf-8?b?4oCdID8=?=
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Hello Fang,

You wrote:

> I have a comment on the "RPS request code" in 3.1.2  RPS PDU structure.
> Could MSRP be extended to support "Signal Degrade (SD)" as a trigger
> condition?

Yes, the SD trigger condition can be added similar to other APS based
protection protocols.

Best regards, Huub.


> *发件人：* weiqiang cheng <mailto:chengwq@gmail.com>
> *发送时间：* 2014-07-09 12:41
> *收件人：* mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> *抄送：* draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
> *主题：* [mpls][MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
> protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology” ?
>
> Hi There,
>
> We uploaded the new version draft“MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology”
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/
>
> We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on the mailing list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Weiqiang Cheng


-- 
*****************************************************************
               请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样


From nobody Wed Jul  9 15:21:17 2014
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--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E8F2Deusaamb103erics_
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Dear Authors,
as the scope of the document includes MPLS data plane I've included MPLS WG=
 in the discussion. Hope you don't mind.
Please find my notes to the draft below:

*         Section 2 states  "S-BFD packets are transmitted with IP header, =
UDP header and BFD control header". Does that mean that ACH encapsulation i=
s outside the scope of this document as in that case S-BFD packets would no=
t have IP and UDP headers. If that is the case, then clarification of the s=
cope seems appropriate.

*         Section 2 introduces "explicitly label switched" scenario. What i=
s it?

*         Section 2.1, bullet describing selection of Destination IP addres=
s. The RFC 5884 allows use of the whole range rather than one address:
"The destination IP address MUST be randomly chosen from the 127/8 range fo=
r IPv4 and  from the 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00/104 range for IPv6 with the follow=
ing exception."
The document, as worded, restricts use of Destination IP address to exercis=
e particular path among available multi-paths, as suggested in the RFC 5884=
.
I'd suggest to use explanation from Section 7 of the RFC 5884.

*         Note that if IP/UDP encapsulation used for S-BFD there could not =
be "new associated channel type for S-BFD" as 0x0021 and 0x0057 must be use=
d for IPv4 and IPv6 accordingly. Or was the Ed.Note for PW-ACH encapsulatio=
n? But Section 3 discusses only IP routing of S-BFD pong.

Thank you for your kind consideration.

Regards,
        Greg

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Authors,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">as the scope of the document includes MPLS data plan=
e I&#8217;ve included MPLS WG in the discussion. Hope you don&#8217;t mind.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please find my notes to the draft below:<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 2 states &nbsp;&#8220;S-BFD packets =
are transmitted with IP header, UDP header and BFD control header&#8221;. D=
oes that mean that ACH encapsulation is outside the scope of this document =
as in that case S-BFD packets would not have IP and
 UDP headers. If that is the case, then clarification of the scope seems ap=
propriate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 2 introduces &#8220;explicitly label=
 switched&#8221; scenario. What is it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 2.1, bullet describing selection of =
Destination IP address. The RFC 5884 allows use of the whole range rather t=
han one address:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;The destination IP=
 address MUST be randomly chosen from the 127/8 range for IPv4 and &nbsp;fr=
om the 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00/104 range for IPv6 with the following exception.=
&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">The document, as worded, =
restricts use of Destination IP address to exercise particular path among a=
vailable multi-paths, as suggested in the RFC 5884.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I&#8217;d suggest to use =
explanation from Section 7 of the RFC 5884.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Note that if IP/UDP encapsulation used for S=
-BFD there could not be &#8220;new associated channel type for S-BFD&#8221;=
 as 0x0021 and 0x0057 must be used for IPv4 and IPv6 accordingly. Or was th=
e Ed.Note for PW-ACH encapsulation? But Section
 3 discusses only IP routing of S-BFD pong.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in">Thank you for your kind =
consideration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E8F2Deusaamb103erics_--


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHPh0sKZ/vjNgoGA02gD6R1/DNUlZtviMsAgAAGuSCAAWXvgIAMTauggBet8gCAAHYg8IAAQuAAgALj8yA=
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 23:41:15 +0000
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References: <20140613210400.13388.18750.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E1E41EA@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E1E4244@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFC20459.19B1B%naikumar@cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E243750@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFE0224C.2AE6D%naikumar@cisco.com> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3941E25DEAB@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <CFE0CE45.2C0DF%naikumar@cisco.com>
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Hi Nagendra,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 10:26 PM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-
> multipath-00.txt
>=20
> Hi Nobo,
>=20
> Good question. I think you meant E and not C, since C has LAG as upstream=
?
>=20
> Assuming you were asking what will E send, then:
>=20
> Even if E does not have any upstream/downstream LAG, E will still include
> LAG Intf Info TLV in the MPLS echo reply, if it understands this TLV. Thi=
s is
> how A learns whether or not E is capable of following the procedures
> described in this document. Otherwise lack of LAG upstream/downstream
> information becomes ambiguous to A: there is no upstream/downstream
> LAG on E vs. E didn't understand the LAG procedures (i.e. ignored the opt=
ion
> TLV and proceeded) but may have upstream/downstream LAG.
>=20
> So, LAG Intf Info TLV in MPLS echo reply is to let the initiator know:
> - Responder understands this mechanism.
> - U bit to indicate that responder is capable of providing Detailed Inter=
face
> and Label Stack TLV.
> - D bit to indicate that responder is capable of providing DDMAP with LAG
> info.
>=20
> I wanted to break up the (U)pstream and (D)ownstream capabilities, since
> on some products, doing one could be more difficult than the other one.
>=20
> <Nagendra> Yes, it is E :). That makes sense. So I think E will set U and=
 D to
> zero to indicate there is no LAG details but I understand this feature :)=
. May
> be this can be clarified in the draft?.

Sure, how about changes in Section 3.

[old]
   These procedures allow initiating LSR to:

   o  Identify whether responder LSR understands this mechanism.

   o  Identify whether each DDMAP describes a LAG interface or a non-LAG
      interface.

[new]
   These procedures allow initiating LSR to:

   o  Mandating the responder LSR to always add the LAG Interface Info TLV
      in the MPLS echo reply allows the initiating LSR to identify whether
      responder LSR understands this mechanism

   o  The value of the LAG Description Indicator flag in DS Flags will allo=
w
      the initiating LSR to identify whether each DDMAP describes a LAG
      interface or a non-LAG interface

Will that work?

>=20
>=20
> Hmm... yes, that text was copied from RFC4379, but it's a bit confusing.
> Let me change that:
>=20
> [old]
>    The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by the
>    upstream LSR to the interface.
>=20
> [new]
>    The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned by this
>    LSR to the interface.
>=20
> Would that work?
>=20
> <Nagendra> Or "The Interface Index Sub-TLV describes the index assigned
> by local LSR to the egress interface"?.

Accepted.

Thank!

-Nobo


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Sam,

> Thanks, Nobo, for quick response.

Sorry for the delay in my second response :D

> >> 2. Could you clarify the following? In the case of LAG interface, for
> >> a given FEC, will there be different label stack for each
> >> sub-interface type? If not, i.e. same label stack but differ sub i.f,
> >> which multipath type one could use to determine hash computation?
> >
> > I think I understand your question ... but if my answers are not what y=
ou
> were asking, do elaborate. For a given FEC, the incoming & outgoing label=
s
> will be the same for all LAG members when traversing over a LAG to reach
> the downstream. Of course SR could assign an Adj-SID for a LAG member,
> and explicitly steer the packets over the specific LAG member, but it wou=
ld
> no longer be considered to travel over the LAG at that point. Similar if =
RSVP
> was to pin-down a specific LAG member. So the LAG is treated as one logic=
al
> interface by the label binding procedures, thus same labels for every LAG
> member.
> Few questions,
>=20
> Because you mentioned it is L2 interfaces only, I was wondering whether L=
3
> header is taken into consideration or not!

I see, actual data carried on the LSP may be "whatever", but for the purpos=
e of LSP Traceroute multipath discovery, we can assume that multipath is go=
ing to be performed with destination IP or Flow/Entropy Label.

> Secondly, assuming if member is not pinned to a specific LSP, is the
> validation for FEC? If so, how is that being done? when do you consider L=
SP
> ping/trace failure? As it is sub member failure, the interface is still r=
unning
> and packets are still fwd'd.

If a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then this document does not im=
pose any changes. Thanks for pointing this out though, I think it's worth s=
pelling that out in the document. What do you think about following text at=
 the end of Section 2 (Overview).

   Note that the mechanism described in this document does not impose
   any changes to scenarios where an LSP is pinned down to a particular
   LAG member (i.e. the LAG is not treated as one logical interface by the
   LSP).

> >> 4. Also, how is DDMAP interface info validated? I believe the LAG
> >> member link # is local. What all fields being validated for LAG interf=
ace?
> >
> > When MPLS echo request traverses over all LAG members (i.e. different
> interface index) to the nexthop, then the packets should have terminated
> on different incoming LAG members at the downstream (different interface
> index).
> >
> > For supported/unsupported scenarios, please view:
> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00#
> > appendix-A
> I think appendix sections are very imp to consider and should be in main
> sections.

I agree that Appendix is useful. At the same time, I'd like the main to foc=
us on the problem and the solution (otherwise the document could become eve=
n more difficult to read). How about I add explicit xref to Appendix from t=
he Overview.

...
   o  In Section 7, the Interface Index Sub-TLV;

   o  In Section 8, the Detailed Interface and Label Stack TLV;

   o  In Appendix A, issues with LAG having L2 Switch. <---- this entry!

> From high level, this addition will help discover various LAG members
> associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is difficult to v=
alidate
> against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LAG member sent cannot be
> validated. If it is indeed could be validated, should be documented in th=
e ID.

Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP Traversal) can=
 use more texts to describe the what can be validated. How about we make so=
me changes in the Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP Traversal).

[old]
   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:

   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, at
      LSR with TTL=3Dn.

   o  The actual incoming interface at LSR with TTL=3Dn+1, including the
      interface index of LAG member link if incoming interface is a LAG
      interface.

[new]
   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:

   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, at
      LSR with TTL=3Dn.

   o  With specific entropy, the expected interface index of the
      outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn.

   o  With specific entropy, the interface index of the incoming LAG
      member link at TTL=3Dn+1.

   Expectation is that there's a relationship between the interface
   index of the outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn and the interface
   index of the incoming LAG member link at TTL=3Dn+1 for all discovered
   entropies.  In other words, set of entropies that load balances to
   outgoing LAG member link X at TTL=3Dn should all reach the nexthop on
   same incoming LAG member link Y at TTL=3Dn+1.

Well, you are already providing good set of comments, much appreciate it!

Thanks!

-Nobo


From nobody Wed Jul  9 21:58:00 2014
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 12:57:52 +0800
Message-ID: <CABYGD0EVcE+dy2nEdqsBPBn13CyezjuAZRgUAHDUQT9ryARyCA@mail.gmail.com>
From: weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com>
To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?q?=5BMPLS=5D_Any_comments_on_the_draft_of_MPLS-TP_?= =?utf-8?q?Shared-Ring_protection_=28MSRP=29_mechanism_for_ring_topology?= =?utf-8?b?4oCdID8=?=
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Hi Jie,
Thanks for your comments.

MPLS-TP based networks are usually constructed with multiple-ring
topology.In some failure scenarios, linear protection such as PSC cannot
cover the multi-failure issue.In addition,for many application scenarios
such as mobile backhaul,a large number of services should be terminated in
one core node.Because the linear protection should be executed end to
end,the core node will take heavy load to handle OAM messages and
Protection switching.

SMP is a very good solution to share the resources and improve the network
reliability. My understanding is that shared ring protection is a special
case of SMP for ring specifically. It is more easy to implement and able to
reduce
the complexity of protection configuration and operation in ring topology.


B.R.
Weiqiang Cheng


2014-07-09 19:10 GMT+08:00 Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>:

>  Dear authors,
>
>
>
> I have one quick comment on this draft:
>
>
>
> Since we have Linear Protection (PSC) and the work being done on Shared
> Mesh Protection, do we need dedicated protection solution for ring topolo=
gy?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jie
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *weiqiang cheng
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:41 PM
> *To:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Cc:* draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
> protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?
>
>
>
> Hi There,
>
> We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection=
 (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protecti=
on/
>
> We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to revie=
w it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on the mailin=
g list.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Weiqiang Cheng
>
>

--001a11c11e1cc9205804fdcfaae4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>Hi Jie,</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Th=
anks for your comments.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:14px">
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">MPLS-T=
P based networks are usually constructed with multiple-ring topology.In som=
e failure scenarios, linear protection such as PSC cannot cover the multi-f=
ailure issue.In addition,for many application scenarios such as mobile back=
haul,a large number of services should be terminated in one core node.Becau=
se the linear protection should be executed end to end,the core node will t=
ake heavy load to handle OAM messages and Protection switching. =C2=A0</div=
>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">SMP is a very good sol=
ution to share the resources and improve the network reliability. My unders=
tanding is that shared ring protection is a special case of SMP for ring sp=
ecifically. It is more easy to implement and able to reduce</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">the complexity o=
f protection configuration and operation in ring topology. =C2=A0=C2=A0</di=
v><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
B.R.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Weiqia=
ng Cheng</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">2014-07-09 19:10 GMT+08:00 Dongjie (Jimmy) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jie.dong@huawei.com</=
a>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Dear autho=
rs,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I have one=
 quick comment on this draft:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Since we h=
ave Linear Protection (PSC) and the work being done on Shared Mesh Protecti=
on, do we need dedicated protection solution for ring topology?<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Best regar=
ds,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Jie<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> mpls [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>weiqiang cheng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@too=
ls.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@t=
ools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-R=
ing protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi There,<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-T=
P Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D<u></u>=
<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/</a><u></u><u></=
u></span></pre>

<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We authors would like to see comments on this dra=
ft. Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send you=
r comments on the mailing list.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Weiqiang Cheng<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c11e1cc9205804fdcfaae4--


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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Nobo,

Thanks for the responses.
Snipped out things so as not to bloat the discussion.=20
I could review draft when you add those changes.
For now, have some points which I feel are more imp :D Hope you don=92t =
mind.
>=20
>> =46rom high level, this addition will help discover various LAG =
members
>> associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is difficult =
to validate
>> against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LAG member sent cannot =
be
>> validated. If it is indeed could be validated, should be documented =
in the ID.
>=20
> Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP =
Traversal) can use more texts to describe the what can be validated. How =
about we make some changes in the Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 =
ECMP Traversal).
>=20
> [old]
>   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
>=20
>   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, =
at
>      LSR with TTL=3Dn.
>=20
>   o  The actual incoming interface at LSR with TTL=3Dn+1, including =
the
>      interface index of LAG member link if incoming interface is a LAG
>      interface.
>=20
> [new]
>   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
>=20
>   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, =
at
>      LSR with TTL=3Dn.
>=20
>   o  With specific entropy, the expected interface index of the
>      outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn.
>=20
>   o  With specific entropy, the interface index of the incoming LAG
>      member link at TTL=3Dn+1.
>=20
>   Expectation is that there's a relationship between the interface
>   index of the outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn and the interface
>   index of the incoming LAG member link at TTL=3Dn+1 for all =
discovered
>   entropies.  In other words, set of entropies that load balances to
>   outgoing LAG member link X at TTL=3Dn should all reach the nexthop =
on
>   same incoming LAG member link Y at TTL=3Dn+1.
I think this is very important, for the reasons below.
1. How does one know same LAG bundle originates at TTL=3Dn terminates at =
TTL=3Dn+1. I am talking from discovery/treetrace/someother side? Both =
TTL=3Dn and TTL=3Dn+1 could tell it is LAG but doesn=92t mean that is =
1:1 correspondence per link/link member.
IOW, how does sec #3 be performed for the scenario described in last =
paragraph in sec #4? Better yet, how does one know not to perform if =
any?
2. Let us take this scenario,  I receive DDMAP at TTL=3Dn with various =
LAG interface+members and their multipath info. I send TTL=3Dn+1 with a =
chosen LAG interface and multi path info. At TTL=3Dn+1, what am I going =
to validate?  For the FEC validation and interface validation, I need to =
check for specific information, in this case the LAG member. My =
understanding is, unlike load balanced interfaces, if LAG member is not =
pinned to specific LSP, the even if one member link fails, it load =
balances over other member link, because MPLS will only see it as single =
interface from LIB point of view, no?
3. If the LAG member info be only used to indicate that there is LAG but =
NOT for validation, then text should be added to describe that. =
Especially on how FEC interface and label validation is done.=20
4. As you said, if a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then we =
will be using a separate DSMAP/DDMAP anyway. If so, could explain the =
benefit of LAG with multi path info really used for? In other words, how =
much beneficial compared to BFD over LAG?
5. When do you consider a LAG member has failed and how do you indicate =
or inform the requestor?

Will save more questions for later :D

-sam

> Well, you are already providing good set of comments, much appreciate =
it!
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20


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From nobody Thu Jul 10 04:55:48 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?7ZqM7IugOiBbUlRHLURJUl0gIFJ0Z0RpciByZXZpZXc6IGRy?= =?utf-8?q?aft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06=2Etxt?=
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Jeong-dong,
Thank you for the response, see below.

On 7/10/2014 2:55 AM, 류정동 wrote:
>
> Thank you, Lou
>
> Please, see the lines starting with [JR] for my responses to your
comments.
>
> I removed the parts that we have already agreed on. I also erased your
comments that are minor editorial and will be reflected in the next
version as you suggested. The two “assigned” related comments are not
covered here as they are being discussed with Yaacov.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeong-dong
>
> ******
>
> (4) Page 7, the first paragraph:
> OLD:
> the resources for the protection path are fully committed,
> NEW
> the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,
>
> Dedicated is also an ambiguous term, how about:
> OLD
>    the resources for the protection path are fully committed, the
>    protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
>    dedicated to the protection of the related working path and also
> NEW
>    the resources for the protection path are fully allocated, the
>    protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
>    allocated to the protection of the related working path and also
>
> [JR] This paragraph describes the difference between linear protection
and shared mesh protection from the perspective of protection resource
sharing. In linear protection switching, the resources are not shared
but dedicated to the protection path. SMP has shared resources in some
segments. I think the word, “dedicated” is general enough to be used
without any further definition. RFC 6372 also uses “dedicated“, and this
document follows the same use as in RFC 6372

I think the (new) first usage of dedicated in paragraph is fine, it's
the second I have a real issue with.  I suggested changing both to avoid
the term altogether.  The way "dedicated" is used in the second sentence
is in the context of SMP, while RFC6372 uses "dedicated"  the context of
"Dedicated Protection" which is contrasted with "Shared Protection".
How about:


NEW
   the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated, the
   protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
   used for protection of the related working path and also


>
>
> (7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:
> OLD:
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are committed to a
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
> switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to
> optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing for cases of
> multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the shared
> resources are be coordinated between the different working paths in
> the SMP network.
> NEW:
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by a
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
> switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail. The different
working paths in
> the SMP network are involved in the resource utilization coordination.
>
>
> This is fine, but I wonder why you are using "resource utilization" vs
"protection switch"? (this is actually a bit of a general comment -- I
the latter is an existing applicable term that would help readers how
this document fits in to the technology space.)
>
> [JR] As described in an earlier part of this section, SMP protection
consists of two operations: traffic switchover and resource utilization
coordination. The sentences are about the resource utilization
coordination, and “resource utilization” seems to be more accurate.

Is "resource utilization coordination" done via some form of inter-node
coordination? If yes, then I think my comment holds.  If no, then I
think you should elabotate on how the "coordination" in this case
differes from how you use "coordination" elsewhere in the document.
Either way, I think we've discussed this enough, i.e., I won't push this
point further.

>
>
> - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
> protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
> I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
> required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
> case, but don't see this in the document.
> [Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in the
PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and RFC 7271
(PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as unidirectional
switching is allowed. This document does not impose any restriction on
co-routing, either.
>
>
> Both RFC4427 and 6372 mention this (Bi-directional recovery switching
in the former). I think this document really needs to mention something
on the topic.  Given the 6372 a "MAY" level requirement is probably
sufficient, but this should be confirmed with the WG.  (I personally
would like SHOULD as this seems to better match 6372's text "operator
often requires...".)
>
> [JR] O.K. I guess that mandating bidirectional switching does not mean
that unidirectional switching is prohibited. What we can do is that,
after changing the title of Section 5.4. from “Revertive protection
switching” to “Reversion and Fate-sharing”, one paragraph with the
following sentence will be added: “Bidirectional protection switching
SHOULD be supported in SMP.”

The topics are essentially orthognal, i.e., supporting one without the
other is completly reasonable.  If you don't want to add a dedicated
section, then Sections 5.7, 5.3 and perhaps even 5.5 are better choices.

>
>
> - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
> preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
> reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
> in dependent of control plane.
> [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and hard
preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not exactly the
case for SMP.
>
> Then 6372 should be referenced and the difference should be described.
 Otherwise readers are likely to think you just used the wrong reference
and that 6372's text applies.  6372 is after all titled "MPLS-TP
Survivability Framework"...
>
> [JR] O.K. 6372 will be referenced and we can add the following
sentence as the third sentence in the paragraph: “The traffic of lower
priority paths in this document can be viewed as the extra traffic being
preempted in [RFC6372].”

great.

>
>
> - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
> mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
> protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
> [Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, or as closely as
possible to provide fast protection.
>
> What text change is planned?
>
> [JR] We can erase “simultaneously” and add the sentence (“Both
operations should occur at the same time, or as closely as possible to
provide fast protection.”) as the second sentence of the paragraph.

WFM.

>
>
>
> - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
> both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
> slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
> requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
> [Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the fourth
bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
>
> Do you plan a text change?  (the 1st paragraph should be a list item
and soft-preemption is mentioned as a parenthetical , and the forth
doesn't mention its scope as hard preemption.)
>
> [JR] OK. We can make them clear. How about the following arrangement?
>
> 5.2. Multiple triggers
>
> If more than one working path is triggering a protection switch such
> that a protection segment is oversubscribed, there are two different
> actions that the SMP network can choose – soft preemption and hard
> preemption.
>
> 5.2.1. Soft-preemption
>
> For networks that support multiplexing packets over the shared
segments, the requirement is:
>
> O All of the protection paths MAY be allowed to share the resources
> of the shared segments
>
> 5.2.2 Hard-preemption
>
> There are networks that require the exclusive use of the protection
> resources when a protection segment is oversubscribed.
> Traffic of lower priority paths is completely blocked.
> These include networks that support the requirements in [RFC5654],
> and in particular support requirement 58. For such networks,
> the following requirements apply:
>
> O ...
>
> O ...
>

I think this will work.

Thanks,
Lou

...


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 08:09:41 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?7ZqM7IugOiBbUlRHLURJUl0gIFJ0Z0RpciByZXZpZXc6IGRy?= =?utf-8?q?aft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06=2Etxt_=28resend=29?=
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[Got some odd bounces on my 1st attempt to send this...]

Jeong-dong,
Thank you for the response, see below.

On 7/10/2014 2:55 AM, ë¥ì ë wrote:
>
> Thank you, Lou
>
> Please, see the lines starting with [JR] for my responses to your
comments.
>
> I removed the parts that we have already agreed on. I also erased your
comments that are minor editorial and will be reflected in the next
version as you suggested. The two âassignedâ related comments are not
covered here as they are being discussed with Yaacov.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeong-dong
>
> ******
>
> (4) Page 7, the first paragraph:
> OLD:
> the resources for the protection path are fully committed,
> NEW
> the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,
>
> Dedicated is also an ambiguous term, how about:
> OLD
>    the resources for the protection path are fully committed, the
>    protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
>    dedicated to the protection of the related working path and also
> NEW
>    the resources for the protection path are fully allocated, the
>    protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
>    allocated to the protection of the related working path and also
>
> [JR] This paragraph describes the difference between linear protection
and shared mesh protection from the perspective of protection resource
sharing. In linear protection switching, the resources are not shared
but dedicated to the protection path. SMP has shared resources in some
segments. I think the word, âdedicatedâ is general enough to be used
without any further definition. RFC 6372 also uses âdedicatedâ, and this
document follows the same use as in RFC 6372

I think the (new) first usage of dedicated in paragraph is fine, it's
the second I have a real issue with.  I suggested changing both to avoid
the term altogether.  The way "dedicated" is used in the second sentence
is in the context of SMP, while RFC6372 uses "dedicated"  the context of
"Dedicated Protection" which is contrasted with "Shared Protection".
How about:


NEW
   the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated, the
   protection path in the case of SMP consists of segments that are
   used for protection of the related working path and also


>
>
> (7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:
> OLD:
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are committed to a
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
> switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to
> optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing for cases of
> multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the shared
> resources are be coordinated between the different working paths in
> the SMP network.
> NEW:
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by a
> particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
> switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail. The different
working paths in
> the SMP network are involved in the resource utilization coordination.
>
>
> This is fine, but I wonder why you are using "resource utilization" vs
"protection switch"? (this is actually a bit of a general comment -- I
the latter is an existing applicable term that would help readers how
this document fits in to the technology space.)
>
> [JR] As described in an earlier part of this section, SMP protection
consists of two operations: traffic switchover and resource utilization
coordination. The sentences are about the resource utilization
coordination, and âresource utilizationâ seems to be more accurate.

Is "resource utilization coordination" done via some form of inter-node
coordination? If yes, then I think my comment holds.  If no, then I
think you should elabotate on how the "coordination" in this case
differes from how you use "coordination" elsewhere in the document.
Either way, I think we've discussed this enough, i.e., I won't push this
point further.

>
>
> - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
> protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
> I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
> required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
> case, but don't see this in the document.
> [Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in the
PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and RFC 7271
(PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as unidirectional
switching is allowed. This document does not impose any restriction on
co-routing, either.
>
>
> Both RFC4427 and 6372 mention this (Bi-directional recovery switching
in the former). I think this document really needs to mention something
on the topic.  Given the 6372 a "MAY" level requirement is probably
sufficient, but this should be confirmed with the WG.  (I personally
would like SHOULD as this seems to better match 6372's text "operator
often requires...".)
>
> [JR] O.K. I guess that mandating bidirectional switching does not mean
that unidirectional switching is prohibited. What we can do is that,
after changing the title of Section 5.4. from âRevertive protection
switchingâ to âReversion and Fate-sharingâ, one paragraph with the
following sentence will be added: âBidirectional protection switching
SHOULD be supported in SMP.â

The topics are essentially orthognal, i.e., supporting one without the
other is completly reasonable.  If you don't want to add a dedicated
section, then Sections 5.7, 5.3 and perhaps even 5.5 are better choices.

>
>
> - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
> preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
> reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
> in dependent of control plane.
> [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and hard
preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not exactly the
case for SMP.
>
> Then 6372 should be referenced and the difference should be described.
 Otherwise readers are likely to think you just used the wrong reference
and that 6372's text applies.  6372 is after all titled "MPLS-TP
Survivability Framework"...
>
> [JR] O.K. 6372 will be referenced and we can add the following
sentence as the third sentence in the paragraph: âThe traffic of lower
priority paths in this document can be viewed as the extra traffic being
preempted in [RFC6372].â

great.

>
>
> - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
> mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
> protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
> [Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, or as closely as
possible to provide fast protection.
>
> What text change is planned?
>
> [JR] We can erase âsimultaneouslyâ and add the sentence (âBoth
operations should occur at the same time, or as closely as possible to
provide fast protection.â) as the second sentence of the paragraph.

WFM.

>
>
>
> - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
> both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
> slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
> requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
> [Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the fourth
bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
>
> Do you plan a text change?  (the 1st paragraph should be a list item
and soft-preemption is mentioned as a parenthetical , and the forth
doesn't mention its scope as hard preemption.)
>
> [JR] OK. We can make them clear. How about the following arrangement?
>
> 5.2. Multiple triggers
>
> If more than one working path is triggering a protection switch such
> that a protection segment is oversubscribed, there are two different
> actions that the SMP network can choose â soft preemption and hard
> preemption.
>
> 5.2.1. Soft-preemption
>
> For networks that support multiplexing packets over the shared
segments, the requirement is:
>
> O All of the protection paths MAY be allowed to share the resources
> of the shared segments
>
> 5.2.2 Hard-preemption
>
> There are networks that require the exclusive use of the protection
> resources when a protection segment is oversubscribed.
> Traffic of lower priority paths is completely blocked.
> These include networks that support the requirements in [RFC5654],
> and in particular support requirement 58. For such networks,
> the following requirements apply:
>
> O ...
>
> O ...
>

I think this will work.

Thanks,
Lou

...


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Weiqiang Cheng, Authors,

Sections 5.2. and 5.2.6.1 of RFC 5654 discusses protection in specific
topologies in general and in ring topologies. There quite a number of
specific requirements, but I think that a very high-level summary would
be: "In the case it is beneficial in the operational situation to have
a solution for a specific topology and that solution does not create
drawbacks for the general MPLS protection mechanisms, such a solution
may be specified and deployed."

/Loa

On 2014-07-10 06:57, weiqiang cheng wrote:
> Hi Jie,
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> MPLS-TP based networks are usually constructed with multiple-ring
> topology.In some failure scenarios, linear protection such as PSC cannot
> cover the multi-failure issue.In addition,for many application scenarios
> such as mobile backhaul,a large number of services should be terminated
> in one core node.Because the linear protection should be executed end to
> end,the core node will take heavy load to handle OAM messages and
> Protection switching.
>
> SMP is a very good solution to share the resources and improve the
> network reliability. My understanding is that shared ring protection is
> a special case of SMP for ring specifically. It is more easy to
> implement and able to reduce
> the complexity of protection configuration and operation in ring topology.
>
> B.R.
> Weiqiang Cheng
>
>
> 2014-07-09 19:10 GMT+08:00 Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com
> <mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>>:
>
>     Dear authors, ____
>
>     __ __
>
>     I have one quick comment on this draft: ____
>
>     __ __
>
>     Since we have Linear Protection (PSC) and the work being done on
>     Shared Mesh Protection, do we need dedicated protection solution for
>     ring topology?____
>
>     __ __
>
>     Best regards,____
>
>     Jie____
>
>     __ __
>
>     *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *weiqiang cheng
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:41 PM
>     *To:* mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     *Cc:* draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP
>     Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology” ?____
>
>     __ __
>
>     Hi There,____
>
>     We uploaded the new version draft “MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology”____
>
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/____
>
>     We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on the mailing list.____
>
>       ____
>
>     Thanks,____
>
>     Weiqiang Cheng____
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Sam,

> Hi Nobo,
>=20
> Thanks for the responses.
> Snipped out things so as not to bloat the discussion.
> I could review draft when you add those changes.
> For now, have some points which I feel are more imp :D Hope you don't
> mind.

No problem, thanks for continued discussions!

> >
> >> From high level, this addition will help discover various LAG members
> >> associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is difficult
> >> to validate against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LAG member
> >> sent cannot be validated. If it is indeed could be validated, should b=
e
> documented in the ID.
> >
> > Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP Traversal)
> can use more texts to describe the what can be validated. How about we
> make some changes in the Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP
> Traversal).
> >
> > [old]
> >   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
> >
> >   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, at
> >      LSR with TTL=3Dn.
> >
> >   o  The actual incoming interface at LSR with TTL=3Dn+1, including the
> >      interface index of LAG member link if incoming interface is a LAG
> >      interface.
> >
> > [new]
> >   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
> >
> >   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, at
> >      LSR with TTL=3Dn.
> >
> >   o  With specific entropy, the expected interface index of the
> >      outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn.
> >
> >   o  With specific entropy, the interface index of the incoming LAG
> >      member link at TTL=3Dn+1.
> >
> >   Expectation is that there's a relationship between the interface
> >   index of the outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn and the interface
> >   index of the incoming LAG member link at TTL=3Dn+1 for all discovered
> >   entropies.  In other words, set of entropies that load balances to
> >   outgoing LAG member link X at TTL=3Dn should all reach the nexthop on
> >   same incoming LAG member link Y at TTL=3Dn+1.
> I think this is very important, for the reasons below.
> 1. How does one know same LAG bundle originates at TTL=3Dn terminates at
> TTL=3Dn+1. I am talking from discovery/treetrace/someother side? Both TTL=
=3Dn
> and TTL=3Dn+1 could tell it is LAG but doesn't mean that is 1:1 correspon=
dence
> per link/link member.

If the LAG is back to back connected, then the LAG should have LAG member l=
inks that are 1:1. What we are providing here is a way for the initiator to=
 traverse each LAG member and to allow the initiator perform some sanity ch=
eck on this 1:1.

> IOW, how does sec #3 be performed for the scenario described in last
> paragraph in sec #4? Better yet, how does one know not to perform if any?

This document is providing a way for the initiator to obtain more informati=
on from downstream LSRs having LAG as outgoing/incoming interfaces. What th=
e initiator can do with collected information is a bit of an implementation=
 matter, which is why above suggested text only described that at high leve=
l.

> 2. Let us take this scenario,  I receive DDMAP at TTL=3Dn with various LA=
G
> interface+members and their multipath info. I send TTL=3Dn+1 with a chose=
n
> LAG interface and multi path info. At TTL=3Dn+1, what am I going to valid=
ate?

DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document. However, this=
 document should have described how the initiator updates the DDMAP receive=
d back from TTL=3Dn before sending the DDMAP to TTL=3Dn+1. If it's indeed t=
his missing information that's generating some questions, I do apologize. L=
et me plan to add some texts on this.

> For the FEC validation and interface validation, I need to check for spec=
ific
> information, in this case the LAG member. My understanding is, unlike loa=
d
> balanced interfaces, if LAG member is not pinned to specific LSP, the eve=
n if
> one member link fails, it load balances over other member link, because
> MPLS will only see it as single interface from LIB point of view, no?

Again DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document, let me =
be clear on this point in the next revision as well.

> 3. If the LAG member info be only used to indicate that there is LAG but =
NOT
> for validation, then text should be added to describe that. Especially on=
 how
> FEC interface and label validation is done.

True, I will add that LAG intf info TLV is not used for any FEC validation =
purpose.

> 4. As you said, if a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then we will=
 be
> using a separate DSMAP/DDMAP anyway. If so, could explain the benefit of
> LAG with multi path info really used for? In other words, how much
> beneficial compared to BFD over LAG?

There are things like LACP and BFD on LAG which is intended to verify the L=
1/L2/L3 functionality of each LAG member. However, the missing (and importa=
nt) piece is that when there are in/out label corruption (i.e. inconsistenc=
ies between control plane and data plane) that only affects subset (one or =
more) of the LAG member links, then there is nothing that can deterministic=
ally test this at the MPLS layer.

> 5. When do you consider a LAG member has failed and how do you indicate
> or inform the requestor?

No DDMAP validation changes, it's up to the initiator to gather and compare=
 the information.

Thanks!

-Nobo


From nobody Thu Jul 10 14:55:36 2014
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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--001a1133179c3e503a04fddde27d
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Hi Nobo,

Thanks for the reply. Provides better clarity now.
Inline for few of my comments.


On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>
> > Hi Nobo,
> >
> > Thanks for the responses.
> > Snipped out things so as not to bloat the discussion.
> > I could review draft when you add those changes.
> > For now, have some points which I feel are more imp :D Hope you don't
> > mind.
>
> No problem, thanks for continued discussions!
>
> > >
> > >> From high level, this addition will help discover various LAG members
> > >> associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is difficult
> > >> to validate against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LAG member
> > >> sent cannot be validated. If it is indeed could be validated, should
> be
> > documented in the ID.
> > >
> > > Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP Traversal)
> > can use more texts to describe the what can be validated. How about we
> > make some changes in the Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP
> > Traversal).
> > >
> > > [old]
> > >   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
> > >
> > >   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, at
> > >      LSR with TTL=n.
> > >
> > >   o  The actual incoming interface at LSR with TTL=n+1, including the
> > >      interface index of LAG member link if incoming interface is a LAG
> > >      interface.
> > >
> > > [new]
> > >   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
> > >
> > >   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member link, at
> > >      LSR with TTL=n.
> > >
> > >   o  With specific entropy, the expected interface index of the
> > >      outgoing LAG member link at TTL=n.
> > >
> > >   o  With specific entropy, the interface index of the incoming LAG
> > >      member link at TTL=n+1.
> > >
> > >   Expectation is that there's a relationship between the interface
> > >   index of the outgoing LAG member link at TTL=n and the interface
> > >   index of the incoming LAG member link at TTL=n+1 for all discovered
> > >   entropies.  In other words, set of entropies that load balances to
> > >   outgoing LAG member link X at TTL=n should all reach the nexthop on
> > >   same incoming LAG member link Y at TTL=n+1.
> > I think this is very important, for the reasons below.
> > 1. How does one know same LAG bundle originates at TTL=n terminates at
> > TTL=n+1. I am talking from discovery/treetrace/someother side? Both TTL=n
> > and TTL=n+1 could tell it is LAG but doesn't mean that is 1:1
> correspondence
> > per link/link member.
>
> If the LAG is back to back connected, then the LAG should have LAG member
> links that are 1:1. What we are providing here is a way for the initiator
> to traverse each LAG member and to allow the initiator perform some sanity
> check on this 1:1.
>
%sam - Idea is noble. The only problem is, when you check at TTL=n+1, you
do not know whether to expect from LAG member =1 or 2 or something. Hence,
the question.

>
> > IOW, how does sec #3 be performed for the scenario described in last
> > paragraph in sec #4? Better yet, how does one know not to perform if any?
>
> This document is providing a way for the initiator to obtain more
> information from downstream LSRs having LAG as outgoing/incoming
> interfaces. What the initiator can do with collected information is a bit
> of an implementation matter, which is why above suggested text only
> described that at high level.
>
%sam - If it is purely for the purpose of knowing a LAG interface exisits
and to indicate packet ingress/egress is that interface, I have no problem.
But that multipath info for each member is the itch. ;-)

>
> > 2. Let us take this scenario,  I receive DDMAP at TTL=n with various LAG
> > interface+members and their multipath info. I send TTL=n+1 with a chosen
> > LAG interface and multi path info. At TTL=n+1, what am I going to
> validate?
>
> DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document. However,
> this document should have described how the initiator updates the DDMAP
> received back from TTL=n before sending the DDMAP to TTL=n+1. If it's
> indeed this missing information that's generating some questions, I do
> apologize. Let me plan to add some texts on this.
>
%sam - NP. Will wait for next version.

>
> > For the FEC validation and interface validation, I need to check for
> specific
> > information, in this case the LAG member. My understanding is, unlike
> load
> > balanced interfaces, if LAG member is not pinned to specific LSP, the
> even if
> > one member link fails, it load balances over other member link, because
> > MPLS will only see it as single interface from LIB point of view, no?
>
> Again DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document, let me
> be clear on this point in the next revision as well.
>
> > 3. If the LAG member info be only used to indicate that there is LAG but
> NOT
> > for validation, then text should be added to describe that. Especially
> on how
> > FEC interface and label validation is done.
>
> True, I will add that LAG intf info TLV is not used for any FEC validation
> purpose.
>
> > 4. As you said, if a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then we
> will be
> > using a separate DSMAP/DDMAP anyway. If so, could explain the benefit of
> > LAG with multi path info really used for? In other words, how much
> > beneficial compared to BFD over LAG?
>
> There are things like LACP and BFD on LAG which is intended to verify the
> L1/L2/L3 functionality of each LAG member. However, the missing (and
> important) piece is that when there are in/out label corruption (i.e.
> inconsistencies between control plane and data plane) that only affects
> subset (one or more) of the LAG member links, then there is nothing that
> can deterministically test this at the MPLS layer.
>
> > 5. When do you consider a LAG member has failed and how do you indicate
> > or inform the requestor?
>
> No DDMAP validation changes, it's up to the initiator to gather and
> compare the information.
>
%sam - So, does that mean the status reported is per bundled interface and
not per Link member?

-sam

>
> Thanks!
>
> -Nobo
>
>

--001a1133179c3e503a04fddde27d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Nobo,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the reply. Provides=
 better clarity now.</div><div>Inline for few of my comments.</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 =
at 2:39 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nobo@=
cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">nobo@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Sam,<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; Hi Nobo,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks for the responses.<br>
&gt; Snipped out things so as not to bloat the discussion.<br>
&gt; I could review draft when you add those changes.<br>
&gt; For now, have some points which I feel are more imp :D Hope you don&#3=
9;t<br>
&gt; mind.<br>
<br>
</div>No problem, thanks for continued discussions!<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; From high level, this addition will help discover various LAG=
 members<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is di=
fficult<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; to validate against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LA=
G member<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; sent cannot be validated. If it is indeed could be validated,=
 should be<br>
&gt; documented in the ID.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP Trav=
ersal)<br>
&gt; can use more texts to describe the what can be validated. How about we=
<br>
&gt; make some changes in the Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP<br>
&gt; Traversal).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [old]<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 o =C2=A0The expected load balance information of every LAG=
 member link, at<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0LSR with TTL=3Dn.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 o =C2=A0The actual incoming interface at LSR with TTL=3Dn+=
1, including the<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interface index of LAG member link if incomin=
g interface is a LAG<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interface.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [new]<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 o =C2=A0The expected load balance information of every LAG=
 member link, at<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0LSR with TTL=3Dn.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 o =C2=A0With specific entropy, the expected interface inde=
x of the<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 o =C2=A0With specific entropy, the interface index of the =
incoming LAG<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0member link at TTL=3Dn+1.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 Expectation is that there&#39;s a relationship between the=
 interface<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 index of the outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn and the i=
nterface<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 index of the incoming LAG member link at TTL=3Dn+1 for all=
 discovered<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 entropies. =C2=A0In other words, set of entropies that loa=
d balances to<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 outgoing LAG member link X at TTL=3Dn should all reach the=
 nexthop on<br>
&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 same incoming LAG member link Y at TTL=3Dn+1.<br>
&gt; I think this is very important, for the reasons below.<br>
&gt; 1. How does one know same LAG bundle originates at TTL=3Dn terminates =
at<br>
&gt; TTL=3Dn+1. I am talking from discovery/treetrace/someother side? Both =
TTL=3Dn<br>
&gt; and TTL=3Dn+1 could tell it is LAG but doesn&#39;t mean that is 1:1 co=
rrespondence<br>
&gt; per link/link member.<br>
<br>
</div></div>If the LAG is back to back connected, then the LAG should have =
LAG member links that are 1:1. What we are providing here is a way for the =
initiator to traverse each LAG member and to allow the initiator perform so=
me sanity check on this 1:1.<br>
</blockquote><div>%sam - Idea is noble. The only problem is, when you check=
 at TTL=3Dn+1, you do not know whether to expect from LAG member =3D1 or 2 =
or something. Hence, the question.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; IOW, how does sec #3 be performed for the scenario described in last<b=
r>
&gt; paragraph in sec #4? Better yet, how does one know not to perform if a=
ny?<br>
<br>
</div>This document is providing a way for the initiator to obtain more inf=
ormation from downstream LSRs having LAG as outgoing/incoming interfaces. W=
hat the initiator can do with collected information is a bit of an implemen=
tation matter, which is why above suggested text only described that at hig=
h level.<br>
</blockquote><div>%sam - If it is purely for the purpose of knowing a LAG i=
nterface exisits and to indicate packet ingress/egress is that interface, I=
 have no problem. But that multipath info for each member is the itch. ;-)<=
/div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; 2. Let us take this scenario, =C2=A0I receive DDMAP at TTL=3Dn with va=
rious LAG<br>
&gt; interface+members and their multipath info. I send TTL=3Dn+1 with a ch=
osen<br>
&gt; LAG interface and multi path info. At TTL=3Dn+1, what am I going to va=
lidate?<br>
<br>
</div>DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document. However=
, this document should have described how the initiator updates the DDMAP r=
eceived back from TTL=3Dn before sending the DDMAP to TTL=3Dn+1. If it&#39;=
s indeed this missing information that&#39;s generating some questions, I d=
o apologize. Let me plan to add some texts on this.<br>
</blockquote><div>%sam - NP. Will wait for next version.=C2=A0</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; For the FEC validation and interface validation, I need to check for s=
pecific<br>
&gt; information, in this case the LAG member. My understanding is, unlike =
load<br>
&gt; balanced interfaces, if LAG member is not pinned to specific LSP, the =
even if<br>
&gt; one member link fails, it load balances over other member link, becaus=
e<br>
&gt; MPLS will only see it as single interface from LIB point of view, no?<=
br>
<br>
</div>Again DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document, l=
et me be clear on this point in the next revision as well.<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; 3. If the LAG member info be only used to indicate that there is LAG b=
ut NOT<br>
&gt; for validation, then text should be added to describe that. Especially=
 on how<br>
&gt; FEC interface and label validation is done.<br>
<br>
</div>True, I will add that LAG intf info TLV is not used for any FEC valid=
ation purpose.<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; 4. As you said, if a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then we w=
ill be<br>
&gt; using a separate DSMAP/DDMAP anyway. If so, could explain the benefit =
of<br>
&gt; LAG with multi path info really used for? In other words, how much<br>
&gt; beneficial compared to BFD over LAG?<br>
<br>
</div>There are things like LACP and BFD on LAG which is intended to verify=
 the L1/L2/L3 functionality of each LAG member. However, the missing (and i=
mportant) piece is that when there are in/out label corruption (i.e. incons=
istencies between control plane and data plane) that only affects subset (o=
ne or more) of the LAG member links, then there is nothing that can determi=
nistically test this at the MPLS layer.<br>

<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; 5. When do you consider a LAG member has failed and how do you indicat=
e<br>
&gt; or inform the requestor?<br>
<br>
</div>No DDMAP validation changes, it&#39;s up to the initiator to gather a=
nd compare the information.<br></blockquote><div>%sam - So, does that mean =
the status reported is per bundled interface and not per Link member?</div>
<div><br></div><div>-sam=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-Nobo<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a1133179c3e503a04fddde27d--


From nobody Thu Jul 10 16:44:19 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 23:44:10 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:23:57 +0800
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From: weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?q?=5BMPLS=5D_Any_comments_on_the_draft_of_MPLS-TP_?= =?utf-8?q?Shared-Ring_protection_=28MSRP=29_mechanism_for_ring_topology?= =?utf-8?b?4oCdID8=?=
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Hi Loa,
Thank you very much for your information.
Ring typologies is an economical solution for operators' network,and it can
provide double physical routes with minimum number of fibers or Microwave
links.

So lots of operators access and metro networks are constructed by rings. A
specific solution for Ring topology is very valuable.

Such as China Mobile, more than 85% fiber networks are using ring topology.
Till now, more than 600,000 MPLS-TP based Packet transport network nodes
deployed, and most of them are constructed with ring typology. From 2013
years, China mobile began to deploy the Ring Protection solutions as the
draft described, now more than 5,000 Nodes have already finished upgrading.
The result shows that the networks reliability improved and the operation
efficiency also are increased.

B.R.
Weiqiang Cheng




2014-07-10 20:30 GMT+08:00 Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>:

> Weiqiang Cheng, Authors,
>
> Sections 5.2. and 5.2.6.1 of RFC 5654 discusses protection in specific
> topologies in general and in ring topologies. There quite a number of
> specific requirements, but I think that a very high-level summary would
> be: "In the case it is beneficial in the operational situation to have
> a solution for a specific topology and that solution does not create
> drawbacks for the general MPLS protection mechanisms, such a solution
> may be specified and deployed."
>
> /Loa
>
>
> On 2014-07-10 06:57, weiqiang cheng wrote:
>
>> Hi Jie,
>> Thanks for your comments.
>>
>> MPLS-TP based networks are usually constructed with multiple-ring
>> topology.In some failure scenarios, linear protection such as PSC cannot
>> cover the multi-failure issue.In addition,for many application scenarios
>> such as mobile backhaul,a large number of services should be terminated
>> in one core node.Because the linear protection should be executed end to
>> end,the core node will take heavy load to handle OAM messages and
>> Protection switching.
>>
>> SMP is a very good solution to share the resources and improve the
>> network reliability. My understanding is that shared ring protection is
>> a special case of SMP for ring specifically. It is more easy to
>> implement and able to reduce
>> the complexity of protection configuration and operation in ring topolog=
y.
>>
>> B.R.
>> Weiqiang Cheng
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-09 19:10 GMT+08:00 Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com
>> <mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>>:
>>
>>     Dear authors, ____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     I have one quick comment on this draft: ____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>
>>     Since we have Linear Protection (PSC) and the work being done on
>>     Shared Mesh Protection, do we need dedicated protection solution for
>>     ring topology?____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Best regards,____
>>
>>     Jie____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *weiqiang cheng
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:41 PM
>>     *To:* mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>>     *Cc:* draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
>>     *Subject:* [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP
>>     Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?=
____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Hi There,____
>>
>>     We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Ring prote=
ction
>> (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D____
>>
>>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-
>> shared-ring-protection/____
>>
>>     We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to
>> review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on th=
e
>> mailing list.____
>>
>>       ____
>>
>>     Thanks,____
>>
>>     Weiqiang Cheng____
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>

--001a11c2caa2c3922004fde278f9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Hi Loa,</div><div>Thank you very much for your i=
nformation.</div><div>Ring typologies is an economical solution for operato=
rs&#39; network,and it can provide double physical routes with minimum numb=
er of fibers or Microwave links.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So lots of operators access and metro networks are cons=
tructed by rings. A specific solution for Ring topology is very valuable.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Such as China Mobile, more than 85% fiber networks =
are using ring topology. Till now, more than 600,000 MPLS-TP based Packet t=
ransport network nodes deployed, and most of them are constructed with ring=
 typology. From 2013 years, China mobile began to deploy the Ring Protectio=
n solutions as the draft described, now more than 5,000 Nodes have already =
finished upgrading. The result shows that the networks reliability improved=
 and the operation efficiency also are increased.</div>
<div><br></div><div>B.R.</div><div>Weiqiang Cheng =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</div=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-07-10 20:30 GMT+08:00 Loa Andersson <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_blank">loa@pi.nu<=
/a>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Weiqiang Cheng, Authors,<br>
<br>
Sections 5.2. and 5.2.6.1 of RFC 5654 discusses protection in specific<br>
topologies in general and in ring topologies. There quite a number of<br>
specific requirements, but I think that a very high-level summary would<br>
be: &quot;In the case it is beneficial in the operational situation to have=
<br>
a solution for a specific topology and that solution does not create<br>
drawbacks for the general MPLS protection mechanisms, such a solution<br>
may be specified and deployed.&quot;<br>
<br>
/Loa<div class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 2014-07-10 06:57, weiqiang cheng wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"">
Hi Jie,<br>
Thanks for your comments.<br>
<br>
MPLS-TP based networks are usually constructed with multiple-ring<br>
topology.In some failure scenarios, linear protection such as PSC cannot<br=
>
cover the multi-failure issue.In addition,for many application scenarios<br=
>
such as mobile backhaul,a large number of services should be terminated<br>
in one core node.Because the linear protection should be executed end to<br=
>
end,the core node will take heavy load to handle OAM messages and<br>
Protection switching.<br>
<br>
SMP is a very good solution to share the resources and improve the<br>
network reliability. My understanding is that shared ring protection is<br>
a special case of SMP for ring specifically. It is more easy to<br>
implement and able to reduce<br>
the complexity of protection configuration and operation in ring topology.<=
br>
<br>
B.R.<br>
Weiqiang Cheng<br>
<br>
<br>
2014-07-09 19:10 GMT+08:00 Dongjie (Jimmy) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@h=
uawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jie.dong@huawei.com</a><br></div>
&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jie.don=
g@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dear authors, ____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have one quick comment on this draft: ____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<div class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Since we have Linear Protection (PSC) and the work being done=
 on<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shared Mesh Protection, do we need dedicated protection solut=
ion for<br></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ring topology?____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Best regards,____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jie____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From:*mpls [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<u></u>] *On Behalf Of *weiqiang chen=
g<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:41 PM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls=
@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-prote=
ction@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-<u></u>r=
ing-protection@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-=
protection@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-<u></u>sha=
red-ring-protection@tools.<u></u>ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject:* [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=
=80=9D ?____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi There,____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Rin=
g protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-=
tp-shared-ring-protection/____" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/<u></u>doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-<u></u>shared-ring-protection/____</a><b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please h=
elp to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments o=
n the mailing list.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Weiqiang Cheng____<div class=3D""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
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tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br>
</div></blockquote><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Loa Andersson =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">loa@mail01.huawei.com</a><br>
Senior MPLS Expert =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" target=3D"_b=
lank">loa@pi.nu</a><br>
Huawei Technologies (consultant) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B46%=
20739%2081%2021%2064" value=3D"+46739812164" target=3D"_blank">+46 739 81 2=
1 64</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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ile PTN=20
ring protection&nbsp;project managers. We have deployed the&nbsp;ring prot=
ection=20
in this draft in Guangdong Province, which is the most&nbsp;<SPAN=20
left-pos=3D"0|24" right-pos=3D"0|24" space=3D"">economically developed pro=
vince in=20
China. Currently ring protection techneque is used </SPAN>mostly=20
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time of single point failure is less than 30ms, while the multi-point fail=
ure is=20
less than 45ms. The test results show that solution in the draft can achei=
ve the=20
expected telecom performance.&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 2em">&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>B.R.</o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>Wang Minxue</o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>China Mobile Reserach&nbsp;Institute</o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 2em"></o:p></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 1=
0.5pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" class=3DFoxDiv20140711121115671686>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt s=
olid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3DEN-US=
> weiqiang=20
cheng [mailto:chengwq@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 11, 2014 11=
:24=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Loa Andersson<BR><B>Cc:</B> Dongjie (Jimmy); mpls@ietf.or=
g;=20
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</=
B> Re:=20
[mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection =
(MSRP)=20
mechanism for ring topology=A1=B1 ?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV=
>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much for your=20
information.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Ring typologies is an economical s=
olution=20
for operators' network,and it can provide double physical routes with mini=
mum=20
number of fibers or Microwave links.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>So lots of operators access and me=
tro=20
networks are constructed by rings. A specific solution for Ring topology i=
s very=20
valuable.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Such as China Mobile, more than 85=
% fiber=20
networks are using ring topology. Till now, more than 600,000 MPLS-TP base=
d=20
Packet transport network nodes deployed, and most of them are constructed =
with=20
ring typology. From 2013 years, China mobile began to deploy the Ring Prot=
ection=20
solutions as the draft described, now more than 5,000 Nodes have already=20
finished upgrading. The result shows that the networks reliability improve=
d and=20
the operation efficiency also are increased.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>B.R.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Weiqiang Cheng &nbsp; &nbsp;=20
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>=
</DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>2014-07-10 20:30 GMT+08:00 Loa And=
ersson=20
&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"=20
target=3D_blank>loa@pi.nu</A>&gt;:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Weiqiang Cheng, Authors,<BR><BR>Se=
ctions=20
5.2. and 5.2.6.1 of RFC 5654 discusses protection in specific<BR>topologie=
s in=20
general and in ring topologies. There quite a number of<BR>specific=20
requirements, but I think that a very high-level summary would<BR>be: "In =
the=20
case it is beneficial in the operational situation to have<BR>a solution f=
or a=20
specific topology and that solution does not create<BR>drawbacks for the g=
eneral=20
MPLS protection mechanisms, such a solution<BR>may be specified and=20
deployed."<BR><BR>/Loa<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR><BR>On 2014-07-10 06:57, weiqi=
ang cheng=20
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDI=
NG-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt;=
 BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PA=
DDING-TOP: 0cm">
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Hi Jie,<BR>Thanks for your=20
  comments.<BR><BR>MPLS-TP based networks are usually constructed with=20
  multiple-ring<BR>topology.In some failure scenarios, linear protection s=
uch as=20
  PSC cannot<BR>cover the multi-failure issue.In addition,for many applica=
tion=20
  scenarios<BR>such as mobile backhaul,a large number of services should b=
e=20
  terminated<BR>in one core node.Because the linear protection should be=20
  executed end to<BR>end,the core node will take heavy load to handle OAM=20
  messages and<BR>Protection switching.<BR><BR>SMP is a very good solution=
 to=20
  share the resources and improve the<BR>network reliability. My understan=
ding=20
  is that shared ring protection is<BR>a special case of SMP for ring=20
  specifically. It is more easy to<BR>implement and able to reduce<BR>the=20
  complexity of protection configuration and operation in ring=20
  topology.<BR><BR>B.R.<BR>Weiqiang Cheng<BR><BR><BR>2014-07-09 19:10 GMT+=
08:00=20
  Dongjie (Jimmy) &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com"=20
  target=3D_blank>jie.dong@huawei.com</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>&lt;mailto:<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com"=20
  target=3D_blank>jie.dong@huawei.com</A>&gt;&gt;:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; De=
ar=20
  authors, ____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; __ __<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have one=
 quick=20
  comment on this draft: ____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; __ __<o:p></o:p></SPAN>=
</P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Since we h=
ave Linear=20
  Protection (PSC) and the work being done on<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Shared Mesh=
=20
  Protection, do we need dedicated protection solution=20
  for<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; ring=20
  topology?____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; __ __<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Best=20
  regards,____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Jie____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; __=20
  __<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; *From:*mpls [mailto:<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"=20
  target=3D_blank>mpls-bounces@ietf.org</A><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<A=
=20
  href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"=20
  target=3D_blank>mpls-bounces@ietf.org</A>&gt;] *On Behalf Of *weiqiang=20
  cheng<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:41 PM<BR>&nbsp=
;=20
  &nbsp; *To:* <A href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D_blank>mpls@ietf.=
org</A>=20
  &lt;mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"=20
  target=3D_blank>mpls@ietf.org</A>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; *Cc:* <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org=
"=20
  target=3D_blank>draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.or=
g</A><BR>&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org=
"=20
  target=3D_blank>draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.or=
g</A>&gt;<BR>&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; *Subject:* [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP<BR>=
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=A1=B1=20
  ?____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; __ __<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Hi=20
  There,____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We uploaded the new version draft =A1=B0=
MPLS-TP=20
  Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=A1=B1____<BR><=
BR>&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; <A=20
  href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring=
-protection/____"=20
  target=3D_blank>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-sha=
red-ring-protection/____</A><BR><BR>&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help =
to=20
  review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on th=
e=20
  mailing list.____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  Thanks,____<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Weiqiang Cheng____<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P=
>
  <DIV>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________=
________<BR>mpls=20
  mailing list<BR><A href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"=20
  target=3D_blank>mpls@ietf.org</A><BR><A=20
  href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"=20
  target=3D_blank>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</A><o:p></o:p=
></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #888888" lang=3DEN-US><BR><SPAN=
=20
class=3Dhoenzb>-- </SPAN><BR><BR><BR><SPAN class=3Dhoenzb>Loa Andersson &n=
bsp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=20
&nbsp;email: <A href=3D"mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com"=20
target=3D_blank>loa@mail01.huawei.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN class=3Dhoenzb>S=
enior MPLS=20
Expert &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<A href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"=20
target=3D_blank>loa@pi.nu</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN class=3Dhoenzb>Huawei Techno=
logies=20
(consultant) &nbsp; &nbsp; phone: <A href=3D"tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%206=
4"=20
target=3D_blank>+46 739 81 21 64</A></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<HR style=3D"WIDTH: 210px; HEIGHT: 1px" align=3Dleft color=3D#b5c4df SIZE=
=3D1>

<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV>wangminxue@gmail.com</DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From nobody Fri Jul 11 02:04:02 2014
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 17:03:58 +0800
Message-ID: <CABYGD0HOyf9g16TDovbYBpE014mHSvs+xsDEOxE=pFVDyet9iQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com>
To: liu.guoman@zte.com.cn
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgW01QTFNdIEFueSBjb21tZW50cyBvbiB0aGUg?= =?utf-8?q?draft_of_MPLS-TP_Shared-Ring_protection_=28MSRP=29_mechanism_fo?= =?utf-8?q?r_ring_topology=E2=80=9D_=3F?=
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Hi Guoman,

The "APS" should be "RPS" Ring Protection Switching, and It is a clerical
error. So sorry to make you confused. We will modify it in late version.
Thanks a lot.

B.R.
Weiqiang Cheng


2014-07-11 14:51 GMT+08:00 <liu.guoman@zte.com.cn>:

> hi, weiqiang
> I have just reviewed this draft and a question for clause 3 coordination
> protocol
>  it seem to have two types protocol , one is RPS protocol in clause 3.1.
> another is APS protocol in clause 3.2.
>  is it necessary to use the two types of protocol in the mpls-tp ring
> protection?
>  I think the answer is "no". how about it=EF=BC=9F
>
> thank you !
>
> B.R.
> liu
>
>
>
>
>  *weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com <chengwq@gmail.com>>*
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:  "mpls" <mpls-bounces@ietf.org>
>
> 2014-07-09 18:41
>   =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA
> "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>,
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81
> "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" <
> draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98
> [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection
> (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?
>
>
>
>
> Hi There,
> We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection=
 (MSRP)
> mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D
>
> *https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protect=
ion/*
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protect=
ion/>
> We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to revie=
w
> it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on the mailin=
g
> list.
>
> Thanks,
> Weiqiang Cheng_______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Guoman,<div><br></div><div>The &quot;APS&quot; should b=
e &quot;RPS&quot; Ring Protection Switching, and It is a=C2=A0clerical erro=
r. So sorry to make you confused. We will modify it in late version.</div><=
div>
Thanks a lot.</div><div><br></div><div>B.R.</div><div>Weiqiang Cheng</div><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-07-=
11 14:51 GMT+08:00  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liu.guoman@zte.=
com.cn" target=3D"_blank">liu.guoman@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font face=3D"sans-serif">hi, weiqiang</font=
>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">I have just reviewed this draft and
a question for clause 3 coordination protocol</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">=C2=A0it seem to have two types protocol
, one is RPS protocol in clause 3.1. another is APS protocol in clause
3.2.</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">=C2=A0is it necessary to use the two
types of protocol in the mpls-tp ring protection? </font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">=C2=A0I think the answer is &quot;no&quot;.
how about it=EF=BC=9F</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">thank you !</font>
<br>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">B.R.</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif">liu</font>
<br><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><table width=3D"100%">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td width=3D"36%"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif"><b>weiqiang cheng &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:chengwq@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">chengwq@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;</b>
</font>
<br><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: =C2=
=A0&quot;mpls&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;</font>
<p><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">2014-07-09 18:41</font>
</p></td><td width=3D"63%">
<table width=3D"100%">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA</font></div>
</td><td><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m=
pls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
</font>
</td></tr><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">=E6=8A=84=E9=80=
=81</font></div>
</td><td><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft=
-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dra=
ft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot;
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;</font>
</td></tr><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=
=98</font></div>
</td><td><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">[mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on=
 the draft
of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=
=9D
?</font></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br>
<table>
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
</td><td></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br></td></tr></tbody></table><div><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D"3">Hi There,</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D"3">We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP=
 Shared-Ring
protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D</font></tt>
<br><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-=
ring-protection/" target=3D"_blank"><tt><font size=3D"3" color=3D"blue"><u>=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection=
/</u></font></tt></a>
<br><tt><font size=3D"3">We authors would like to see comments on this draf=
t.
Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your
comments on the mailing list.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D"3">=C2=A0</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D"3">Thanks,</font></tt>
<br></div></div><tt><font size=3D"3">Weiqiang Cheng</font></tt><tt><font>__=
_____________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
</font></tt><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=
=3D"_blank"><tt><font>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</font></tt=
></a><tt><font><br>
</font></tt>
<br>

<br><pre><font color=3D"blue">
--------------------------------------------------------
ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (an=
d any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and i=
s intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s).  If you are not an in=
tended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other disse=
mination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited.  If yo=
u have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediat=
ely.

</font></pre><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bf0dd16c87c3804fde73857--


From nobody Fri Jul 11 04:20:42 2014
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 13:20:36 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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To: weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com>, liu.guoman@zte.com.cn
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgW01QTFNdIEFueSBjb21tZW50cyBvbiB0aGUg?= =?utf-8?q?draft_of_MPLS-TP_Shared-Ring_protection_=28MSRP=29_mechanism_fo?= =?utf-8?q?r_ring_topology=E2=80=9D_=3F?=
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Weiqiang,

RFC 7271 took great care to make the PSC and APS identical from an
operational point of view; does this mean that PSC (RFC 7271) could
be used also?

/Loa


On 2014-07-11 11:03, weiqiang cheng wrote:
> Hi Guoman,
>
> The "APS" should be "RPS" Ring Protection Switching, and It is
> a clerical error. So sorry to make you confused. We will modify it in
> late version.
> Thanks a lot.
>
> B.R.
> Weiqiang Cheng
>
>
> 2014-07-11 14:51 GMT+08:00 <liu.guoman@zte.com.cn
> <mailto:liu.guoman@zte.com.cn>>:
>
>     hi, weiqiang
>     I have just reviewed this draft and a question for clause 3
>     coordination protocol
>       it seem to have two types protocol , one is RPS protocol in clause
>     3.1. another is APS protocol in clause 3.2.
>       is it necessary to use the two types of protocol in the mpls-tp
>     ring protection?
>       I think the answer is "no". how about it？
>
>     thank you !
>
>     B.R.
>     liu
>
>
>
>
>     *weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com <mailto:chengwq@gmail.com>>*
>     发件人:  "mpls" <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>
>
>     2014-07-09 18:41
>
>     	
>     收件人
>     	"mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>,
>     抄送
>     	"draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>"
>     <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>>
>     主题
>     	[mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
>     protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology” ?
>
>
>     	
>
>
>
>
>
>     Hi There,
>     We uploaded the new version draft “MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection
>     (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology”
>     _https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/_
>
>     We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to
>     review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments
>     on the mailing list.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Weiqiang Cheng_______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------
>     ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s).  If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Fri Jul 11 10:10:20 2014
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Subject: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp
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Working Group,

The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp has told the wg chairs
that it is time to start the working group last call on this draft.

We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
with the wglc.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-
protection?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Fri Jul 11 10:21:01 2014
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From: Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org>
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Hi Nobo
We have a new version of this draft:
	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls-02


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:23 AM
> To: draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
>=20
> Hi Ravi, Yimin,
>=20
> I have couple of comments.
>=20
> 1. Stitched LSP - Proposed really offers optimization in stitched
> scenario.
>=20
> a. Allows EL usage for even wider than just EL capable segments.
> b. Potentially speeds data traversal over stitched LSP as number of
> times ELI/EL popped/pushed are reduced.
>=20
> Document sort of eludes to this, but I think it'll be beneficial to
> state that things will work as is (RFC6790), but proposal can be used
> as optimization.

The optimization aspect has been called out in the latest version.


> 2. Hierarchical LSP
>=20
> >   B. Preventing multiple (ELI+EL) pairs underneath a given forwarding
> >       label in the stack:
>=20
> I highly support above statement. Having multiple ELs in the stack
> will, yet again, cause more changes required in LSP traceroute wrt
> multipath information handling, and requires even more complex
> computation by initiator to traverse ECMP paths.

Great that we are in agreement.
Ravi



> -Nobo
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20


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From: Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net>
To: "curtis@ipv6.occnc.com" <curtis@ipv6.occnc.com>, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
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Hi Curtis
You've had comments on our usage of the term stitching in this draft.
We've clarified the same (in the latest version) and now instead of referri=
ng to the use-case as being "stitching" (as implied in the GMPLS case), we =
now refer to it as concatenation of LSPs.
Please refer the latest version and let me know if there are any further co=
mments...
Thanks
Ravi


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ravi Singh [mailto:ravis@juniper.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:21 AM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-
> mpls@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
>=20
> Hi Nobo
> We have a new version of this draft:
> 	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-
> mpls-02
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:23 AM
> > To: draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
> >
> > Hi Ravi, Yimin,
> >
> > I have couple of comments.
> >
> > 1. Stitched LSP - Proposed really offers optimization in stitched
> > scenario.
> >
> > a. Allows EL usage for even wider than just EL capable segments.
> > b. Potentially speeds data traversal over stitched LSP as number of
> > times ELI/EL popped/pushed are reduced.
> >
> > Document sort of eludes to this, but I think it'll be beneficial to
> > state that things will work as is (RFC6790), but proposal can be used
> > as optimization.
>=20
> The optimization aspect has been called out in the latest version.
>=20
>=20
> > 2. Hierarchical LSP
> >
> > >   B. Preventing multiple (ELI+EL) pairs underneath a given
> forwarding
> > >       label in the stack:
> >
> > I highly support above statement. Having multiple ELs in the stack
> > will, yet again, cause more changes required in LSP traceroute wrt
> > multipath information handling, and requires even more complex
> > computation by initiator to traverse ECMP paths.
>=20
> Great that we are in agreement.
> Ravi
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -Nobo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >


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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-00.txt
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Hi Nobo,

Few comments inline.
On Jul 10, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:56 PM
>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-
>> lag-multipath-00.txt
>>=20
>> Hi Nobo,
>>=20
>> Thanks for the reply. Provides better clarity now.
>=20
> I'm very glad to hear that, and thanks again for many comments!
>=20
> Also, I'm glad you didn't ask all of these questions at the mic :)
>=20
>> Inline for few of my comments.
>>=20
>> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) <nobo@cisco.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hi Sam,
>>=20
>>> Hi Nobo,
>>>=20
>>> Thanks for the responses.
>>> Snipped out things so as not to bloat the discussion.
>>> I could review draft when you add those changes.
>>> For now, have some points which I feel are more imp :D Hope you =
don't
>>> mind.
>> No problem, thanks for continued discussions!
>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =46rom high level, this addition will help discover various LAG =
members
>>>>> associated with the data path of an LSP. But I think it is =
difficult
>>>>> to validate against a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of LAG
>> member
>>>>> sent cannot be validated. If it is indeed could be validated, =
should be
>>> documented in the ID.
>>>>=20
>>>> Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP =
Traversal)
>>> can use more texts to describe the what can be validated. How about =
we
>>> make some changes in the Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP
>>> Traversal).
>>>>=20
>>>> [old]
>>>>   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
>>>>=20
>>>>   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member =
link, at
>>>>      LSR with TTL=3Dn.
>>>>=20
>>>>   o  The actual incoming interface at LSR with TTL=3Dn+1, including =
the
>>>>      interface index of LAG member link if incoming interface is a =
LAG
>>>>      interface.
>>>>=20
>>>> [new]
>>>>   Described procedures allow initiating LSR to know:
>>>>=20
>>>>   o  The expected load balance information of every LAG member =
link, at
>>>>      LSR with TTL=3Dn.
>>>>=20
>>>>   o  With specific entropy, the expected interface index of the
>>>>      outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn.
>>>>=20
>>>>   o  With specific entropy, the interface index of the incoming LAG
>>>>      member link at TTL=3Dn+1.
>>>>=20
>>>>   Expectation is that there's a relationship between the interface
>>>>   index of the outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn and the =
interface
>>>>   index of the incoming LAG member link at TTL=3Dn+1 for all =
discovered
>>>>   entropies.  In other words, set of entropies that load balances =
to
>>>>   outgoing LAG member link X at TTL=3Dn should all reach the =
nexthop on
>>>>   same incoming LAG member link Y at TTL=3Dn+1.
>>> I think this is very important, for the reasons below.
>>> 1. How does one know same LAG bundle originates at TTL=3Dn =
terminates at
>>> TTL=3Dn+1. I am talking from discovery/treetrace/someother side? =
Both
>> TTL=3Dn
>>> and TTL=3Dn+1 could tell it is LAG but doesn't mean that is 1:1
>> correspondence
>>> per link/link member.
>> If the LAG is back to back connected, then the LAG should have LAG =
member
>> links that are 1:1. What we are providing here is a way for the =
initiator to
>> traverse each LAG member and to allow the initiator perform some =
sanity
>> check on this 1:1.
>> %sam - Idea is noble. The only problem is, when you check at TTL=3Dn+1,=
 you
>> do not know whether to expect from LAG member =3D1 or 2 or something.
>> Hence, the question.
>=20
> Yes these are good questions. What we do know is that if:
> - traversing LAG member=3D1 at TTL=3Dn will result in LAG member=3D1' =
as the incoming interface at TTL=3Dn+1.
> - traversing LAG member=3D2 at TTL=3Dn will result in LAG member=3D2' =
as the incoming interface at TTL=3Dn+1.
>=20
> The error is detected when:
> - traversing LAG member=3D1 at TTL=3Dn will result in LAG member=3D1' =
as the incoming interface at TTL=3Dn+1.
> - traversing LAG member=3D2 at TTL=3Dn will result in LAG member=3D1' =
as the incoming interface at TTL=3Dn+1.
>=20
> So it's all up to the initiating LSR to add logic to verify this.=20
So, the validation is pretty much offline and not built into the OAM =
packets and initiator has to know topology etc via offline means and =
specifically whether the links traverse switches or not.
>=20
>>=20
>>> IOW, how does sec #3 be performed for the scenario described in last
>>> paragraph in sec #4? Better yet, how does one know not to perform if =
any?
>> This document is providing a way for the initiator to obtain more
>> information from downstream LSRs having LAG as outgoing/incoming
>> interfaces. What the initiator can do with collected information is a =
bit of an
>> implementation matter, which is why above suggested text only =
described
>> that at high level.
>> %sam - If it is purely for the purpose of knowing a LAG interface =
exisits and
>> to indicate packet ingress/egress is that interface, I have no =
problem. But
>> that multipath info for each member is the itch. ;-)
>=20
> Yes it's itchy but necessary, as we need to deterministically traverse =
each LAG member in the MPLS layer, hence the need for multipath.
Itchiness is not because of the info, rather, this is applicable only =
for a specific topology, which cannot be discovered for validation, via =
inline means. Ofcourse that doesn't diminish the value.
>=20
> The primary goal here is to ensure we have a necessary OAM tool to =
mitigate traffic black hole in MPLS networks, and I'm afraid this is a =
necessary (or very very beneficial) change.
OAM is meant for that :D
>=20
>>=20
>>> 2. Let us take this scenario,  I receive DDMAP at TTL=3Dn with =
various LAG
>>> interface+members and their multipath info. I send TTL=3Dn+1 with a =
chosen
>>> LAG interface and multi path info. At TTL=3Dn+1, what am I going to =
validate?
>> DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document. =
However,
>> this document should have described how the initiator updates the =
DDMAP
>> received back from TTL=3Dn before sending the DDMAP to TTL=3Dn+1. If =
it's
>> indeed this missing information that's generating some questions, I =
do
>> apologize. Let me plan to add some texts on this.
>> %sam - NP. Will wait for next version.
>=20
> Thanks to you and Nagendra, numbers of beneficial changes were =
suggested. I should have a revision ready in couple of days, but you'll =
need to wait until the gate is open again for its publication. If you =
want to take an early look, drop me a line.
No time to review before the mtg. Sorry.
>=20
>>=20
>>> For the FEC validation and interface validation, I need to check for =
specific
>>> information, in this case the LAG member. My understanding is, =
unlike
>> load
>>> balanced interfaces, if LAG member is not pinned to specific LSP, =
the even
>> if
>>> one member link fails, it load balances over other member link, =
because
>>> MPLS will only see it as single interface from LIB point of view, =
no?
>> Again DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by this document, =
let
>> me be clear on this point in the next revision as well.
>>=20
>>> 3. If the LAG member info be only used to indicate that there is LAG =
but
>> NOT
>>> for validation, then text should be added to describe that. =
Especially on
>> how
>>> FEC interface and label validation is done.
>> True, I will add that LAG intf info TLV is not used for any FEC =
validation
>> purpose.
>>=20
>>> 4. As you said, if a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then we =
will be
>>> using a separate DSMAP/DDMAP anyway. If so, could explain the =
benefit
>> of
>>> LAG with multi path info really used for? In other words, how much
>>> beneficial compared to BFD over LAG?
>> There are things like LACP and BFD on LAG which is intended to verify =
the
>> L1/L2/L3 functionality of each LAG member. However, the missing (and
>> important) piece is that when there are in/out label corruption (i.e.
>> inconsistencies between control plane and data plane) that only =
affects
>> subset (one or more) of the LAG member links, then there is nothing =
that
>> can deterministically test this at the MPLS layer.
>>=20
>>> 5. When do you consider a LAG member has failed and how do you
>> indicate
>>> or inform the requestor?
>> No DDMAP validation changes, it's up to the initiator to gather and =
compare
>> the information.
>> %sam - So, does that mean the status reported is per bundled =
interface and
>> not per Link member?
>=20
> DDMAP is still per LAG, but some Sub-TLVs (multipath info and =
interface index) are per LAG member link.
nod.

-sam
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
>>=20
>> -sam
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>>=20
>> -Nobo


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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Nobo,<div><br></div><div>Few comments inline.<br><div><div>On Jul 10, =
2014, at 4:44 PM, Nobo Akiya (nobo) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:nobo@cisco.com">nobo@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Hi Sam,<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Sam Aldrin [<a =
href=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com</a>]<br=
>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:56 PM<br>To: Nobo Akiya =
(nobo)<br>Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [mpls] =
New Version Notification for =
draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-<br>lag-multipath-00.txt<br><br>Hi =
Nobo,<br><br>Thanks for the reply. Provides better clarity =
now.<br></blockquote><br>I'm very glad to hear that, and thanks again =
for many comments!<br><br>Also, I'm glad you didn't ask all of these =
questions at the mic :)<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Inline for few =
of my comments.<br><br>On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Nobo Akiya =
(nobo) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:nobo@cisco.com">nobo@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>wrote:<br>Hi =
Sam,<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Hi Nobo,<br><br>Thanks for the =
responses.<br>Snipped out things so as not to bloat the discussion.<br>I =
could review draft when you add those changes.<br>For now, have some =
points which I feel are more imp :D Hope you =
don't<br>mind.<br></blockquote>No problem, thanks for continued =
discussions!<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">=46rom high level, this =
addition will help discover various LAG members<br>associated with the =
data path of an LSP. But I think it is difficult<br>to validate against =
a given FEC. Because the DDMAP info of =
LAG<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>member<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">sent =
cannot be validated. If it is indeed could be validated, should =
be<br></blockquote></blockquote>documented in the ID.<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>Good point. I think Section 4 (Mechanism to Validate =
L2 ECMP Traversal)<br></blockquote>can use more texts to describe the =
what can be validated. How about we<br>make some changes in the Section =
4 (Mechanism to Validate L2 ECMP<br>Traversal).<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>[old]<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Described procedures allow =
initiating LSR to know:<br><br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>o &nbsp;The expected load =
balance information of every LAG member link, at<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;LSR with TTL=3Dn.<br><br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>o &nbsp;The actual incoming =
interface at LSR with TTL=3Dn+1, including the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;interface index of LAG member link if incoming interface is a =
LAG<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;interface.<br><br>[new]<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Described procedures allow =
initiating LSR to know:<br><br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>o &nbsp;The expected load =
balance information of every LAG member link, at<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;LSR with TTL=3Dn.<br><br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>o &nbsp;With specific =
entropy, the expected interface index of the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;outgoing LAG member link at TTL=3Dn.<br><br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>o &nbsp;With specific =
entropy, the interface index of the incoming LAG<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;member link at TTL=3Dn+1.<br><br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Expectation is that there's =
a relationship between the interface<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>index of the outgoing LAG =
member link at TTL=3Dn and the interface<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>index of the incoming LAG =
member link at TTL=3Dn+1 for all discovered<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>entropies. &nbsp;In other =
words, set of entropies that load balances to<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>outgoing LAG member link X =
at TTL=3Dn should all reach the nexthop on<br>&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>same incoming LAG member =
link Y at TTL=3Dn+1.<br></blockquote>I think this is very important, for =
the reasons below.<br>1. How does one know same LAG bundle originates at =
TTL=3Dn terminates at<br>TTL=3Dn+1. I am talking from =
discovery/treetrace/someother side? =
Both<br></blockquote>TTL=3Dn<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">and TTL=3Dn+1 =
could tell it is LAG but doesn't mean that is =
1:1<br></blockquote>correspondence<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">per =
link/link member.<br></blockquote>If the LAG is back to back connected, =
then the LAG should have LAG member<br>links that are 1:1. What we are =
providing here is a way for the initiator to<br>traverse each LAG member =
and to allow the initiator perform some sanity<br>check on this =
1:1.<br>%sam - Idea is noble. The only problem is, when you check at =
TTL=3Dn+1, you<br>do not know whether to expect from LAG member =3D1 or =
2 or something.<br>Hence, the question.<br></blockquote><br>Yes these =
are good questions. What we do know is that if:<br>- traversing LAG =
member=3D1 at TTL=3Dn will result in LAG member=3D1' as the incoming =
interface at TTL=3Dn+1.<br>- traversing LAG member=3D2 at TTL=3Dn will =
result in LAG member=3D2' as the incoming interface at =
TTL=3Dn+1.<br><br>The error is detected when:<br>- traversing LAG =
member=3D1 at TTL=3Dn will result in LAG member=3D1' as the incoming =
interface at TTL=3Dn+1.<br>- traversing LAG member=3D2 at TTL=3Dn will =
result in LAG member=3D1' as the incoming interface at =
TTL=3Dn+1.<br><br>So it's all up to the initiating LSR to add logic to =
verify this.&nbsp;<br></div></blockquote>So, the validation is pretty =
much offline and not built into the OAM packets and initiator has to =
know topology etc via offline means and specifically whether the links =
traverse switches or not.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">IOW, how does sec #3 be =
performed for the scenario described in last<br>paragraph in sec #4? =
Better yet, how does one know not to perform if =
any?<br></blockquote>This document is providing a way for the initiator =
to obtain more<br>information from downstream LSRs having LAG as =
outgoing/incoming<br>interfaces. What the initiator can do with =
collected information is a bit of an<br>implementation matter, which is =
why above suggested text only described<br>that at high level.<br>%sam - =
If it is purely for the purpose of knowing a LAG interface exisits =
and<br>to indicate packet ingress/egress is that interface, I have no =
problem. But<br>that multipath info for each member is the itch. =
;-)<br></blockquote><br>Yes it's itchy but necessary, as we need to =
deterministically traverse each LAG member in the MPLS layer, hence the =
need for multipath.<br></div></blockquote>Itchiness is not because of =
the info, rather, this is applicable only for a specific topology, which =
cannot be discovered for validation, via inline means. Ofcourse that =
doesn't diminish the value.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br>The primary goal here is to ensure =
we have a necessary OAM tool to mitigate traffic black hole in MPLS =
networks, and I'm afraid this is a necessary (or very very beneficial) =
change.<br></div></blockquote>OAM is meant for that :D<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">2. Let us take this =
scenario, &nbsp;I receive DDMAP at TTL=3Dn with various =
LAG<br>interface+members and their multipath info. I send TTL=3Dn+1 with =
a chosen<br>LAG interface and multi path info. At TTL=3Dn+1, what am I =
going to validate?<br></blockquote>DDMAP validation procedures are not =
updated by this document. However,<br>this document should have =
described how the initiator updates the DDMAP<br>received back from =
TTL=3Dn before sending the DDMAP to TTL=3Dn+1. If it's<br>indeed this =
missing information that's generating some questions, I do<br>apologize. =
Let me plan to add some texts on this.<br>%sam - NP. Will wait for next =
version.<br></blockquote><br>Thanks to you and Nagendra, numbers of =
beneficial changes were suggested. I should have a revision ready in =
couple of days, but you'll need to wait until the gate is open again for =
its publication. If you want to take an early look, drop me a =
line.<br></div></blockquote>No time to review before the mtg. =
Sorry.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">For =
the FEC validation and interface validation, I need to check for =
specific<br>information, in this case the LAG member. My understanding =
is, unlike<br></blockquote>load<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">balanced =
interfaces, if LAG member is not pinned to specific LSP, the =
even<br></blockquote>if<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">one member link =
fails, it load balances over other member link, because<br>MPLS will =
only see it as single interface from LIB point of view, =
no?<br></blockquote>Again DDMAP validation procedures are not updated by =
this document, let<br>me be clear on this point in the next revision as =
well.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">3. If the LAG member info be only =
used to indicate that there is LAG =
but<br></blockquote>NOT<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">for validation, =
then text should be added to describe that. Especially =
on<br></blockquote>how<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">FEC interface and =
label validation is done.<br></blockquote>True, I will add that LAG intf =
info TLV is not used for any FEC =
validation<br>purpose.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">4. As you said, =
if a LAG member is pinned to a specific LSP, then we will be<br>using a =
separate DSMAP/DDMAP anyway. If so, could explain the =
benefit<br></blockquote>of<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">LAG with multi =
path info really used for? In other words, how much<br>beneficial =
compared to BFD over LAG?<br></blockquote>There are things like LACP and =
BFD on LAG which is intended to verify the<br>L1/L2/L3 functionality of =
each LAG member. However, the missing (and<br>important) piece is that =
when there are in/out label corruption (i.e.<br>inconsistencies between =
control plane and data plane) that only affects<br>subset (one or more) =
of the LAG member links, then there is nothing that<br>can =
deterministically test this at the MPLS layer.<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">5. When do you consider a LAG member has failed and how do =
you<br></blockquote>indicate<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">or inform the =
requestor?<br></blockquote>No DDMAP validation changes, it's up to the =
initiator to gather and compare<br>the information.<br>%sam - So, does =
that mean the status reported is per bundled interface and<br>not per =
Link member?<br></blockquote><br>DDMAP is still per LAG, but some =
Sub-TLVs (multipath info and interface index) are per LAG member =
link.<br></div></blockquote>nod.</div><div><br></div><div>-sam<br><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br>Thanks!<br><br>-Nobo<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br>-sam<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>-Nobo</blockquote></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_5897540B-12D9-4722-A624-0AB25A61DFB9--


From nobody Fri Jul 11 11:24:45 2014
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 20:24:36 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PYUShIto0Xo-KHF0zQItSL9_jNw
Subject: [mpls] Correction -  IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp
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Working group,

I made a "copy - paste" mistake when I started this IPR poll. The
correct text should be:

The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp has told the wg chairs
that it is time to start the working group last call on this draft.

We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
with the wglc.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-
over-mldp?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)


On 2014-07-11 19:09, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp has told the wg chairs
> that it is time to start the working group last call on this draft.
>
> We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
> with the wglc.
>
> This mail starts that IPR poll.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-
> protection?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>


From nobody Fri Jul 11 11:43:26 2014
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From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Correction - IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp
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Loa,

> Working group,
> 
> I made a "copy - paste" mistake when I started this IPR poll. The
> correct text should be:
> 
> The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp has told the wg chairs
> that it is time to start the working group last call on this draft.
> 
> We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
> with the wglc.
> 
> This mail starts that IPR poll.
> 
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-
> over-mldp?

I am aware of the following relevant IPR that is related to
draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp - https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2189/

> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Yes.

> Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

I think this is the one I mentioned above.

Yakov.


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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 15:09:59 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?W1JURy1ESVJdIO2ajOyLoDog7ZqM7IugOiAgIFJ0Z0RpciBy?= =?utf-8?q?eview=3A_draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06=2Etxt?=
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Thank you -- just one response and suggested change.

Lou

On 07/10/2014 09:43 AM, 류정동 wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> Thank you for agreeing on most of the suggestions.
> Please, see the lines starting with [JR2] below.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jeong-dong
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> 보낸 사람: Lou Berger [lberger@labn.net]
...
>> This is fine, but I wonder why you are using "resource utilization" vs
> "protection switch"? (this is actually a bit of a general comment -- I
> the latter is an existing applicable term that would help readers how
> this document fits in to the technology space.)
>>
>> [JR] As described in an earlier part of this section, SMP protection
> consists of two operations: traffic switchover and resource utilization
> coordination. The sentences are about the resource utilization
> coordination, and “resource utilization” seems to be more accurate.
> 
> Is "resource utilization coordination" done via some form of inter-node
> coordination? If yes, then I think my comment holds.  If no, then I
> think you should elabotate on how the "coordination" in this case
> differes from how you use "coordination" elsewhere in the document.
> Either way, I think we've discussed this enough, i.e., I won't push this
> point further.
> 
> [JR2] "resource utilization coorination" occurs between the nodes as in other protection switching. "resource utilization coordination" is a part of whole SMP protection switching coordination and is meant to emphasize that coordination is for resource utilization. Of course, the reason why it does resource utilization coordination is to complete protection switching eventually. 
> 

Okay. I think adding something along the lines of ""resource utilization
coordination" is a part of whole SMP protection switching coordination "
to the text would clarify your intent to future readers.
...


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From nobody Fri Jul 11 14:16:26 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection
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Working group,


This working group last call has been closed!

There have been some comments, can the authors please address the
comments and update as necessary.

/Loa
(for the wg chairs)

On 2014-06-17 11:39, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> This is to initiate a two week working group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection-01.
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> There are two IPR disclosures against this document. The authors and
> the working group members have been asked in a separate mail to state
> whether they are aware of other IPRs that relate to this document.
>
> This working group last call ends July 1, 2014.
>
> /Loa
> for the MPLS wg chairs
>
>
>


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Working group,

The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding has told
the wg chairs that it is time to start the working group last call on
this draft.

We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
with the wglc.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to 
draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)


From nobody Fri Jul 11 14:44:06 2014
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding@tools.ietf.org>, "Martin Vigoureux" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding
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Hi Loa,

I=B9m not aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed.
Thanks!

Cheers,
Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Friday, July 11, 2014 at 2:25 PM
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
<mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,
"draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding@tools.ietf.org"
<draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding@tools.ietf.org>, Martin
Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding

>Working group,
>
>The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding has told
>the wg chairs that it is time to start the working group last call on
>this draft.
>
>We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
>with the wglc.
>
>This mail starts that IPR poll.
>
>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
>draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding?
>
>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
>If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
>document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>received from each author and contributor.
>
>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>Thanks, Loa
>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Fri Jul 11 17:27:41 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-ip@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-ip@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Mail regarding draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-ip
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Hi Greg,

Thanks for comments!
Please see in-line.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:21 PM
> To: draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-ip@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Mail regarding draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-ip
>=20
> Dear Authors,
> as the scope of the document includes MPLS data plane I've included MPLS
> WG in the discussion. Hope you don't mind.

Sure, no problem at all.

> Please find my notes to the draft below:
> . Section 2 states =A0"S-BFD packets are transmitted with IP header, UDP
> header and BFD control header". Does that mean that ACH encapsulation is
> outside the scope of this document as in that case S-BFD packets would no=
t
> have IP and UDP headers. If that is the case, then clarification of the s=
cope
> seems appropriate.

Good question. This is exactly one of the points that authors are looking f=
or feedback on. We have two options.

This is the S-BFD update slide for IETF90 to be presented in the BFD WG.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-bfd-2.pptx

Please see page 3 on the two options, and we welcome comments/suggestions :=
)

> . Section 2 introduces "explicitly label switched" scenario. What is it?

On the wire, a packet may have a label stack, but ...

Type 1: Those locally generated packets that are routed but happens rides o=
ver an LSP (ex: IP routed but goes over LDP LSP).
Type 2: Those locally generated packets that are designed to ride over a sp=
ecific LSP.

By "explicitly label switched", I wanted to say Type 2. But looking for sug=
gestions.

> . Section 2.1, bullet describing selection of Destination IP address. The=
 RFC
> 5884 allows use of the whole range rather than one address:
> "The destination IP address MUST be randomly chosen from the 127/8 range
> for IPv4 and =A0from the 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00/104 range for IPv6 with the
> following exception."
> The document, as worded, restricts use of Destination IP address to exerc=
ise
> particular path among available multi-paths, as suggested in the RFC 5884=
.
> I'd suggest to use explanation from Section 7 of the RFC 5884.

Good catch! Yes we wanted to describe the range similar to RFC5884, but wor=
ded it incorrectly. We will fix that in the next revision.

> . Note that if IP/UDP encapsulation used for S-BFD there could not be "ne=
w
> associated channel type for S-BFD" as 0x0021 and 0x0057 must be used for
> IPv4 and IPv6 accordingly. Or was the Ed.Note for PW-ACH encapsulation?
> But Section 3 discusses only IP routing of S-BFD pong.

Let's see what the WG decides on the S-BFD document structuring (your comme=
nt #1 in above).

>=20
> Thank you for your kind consideration.

Thanks for always thoughtful comments!

-Nobo

>=20
> Regards,
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg


From nobody Sat Jul 12 04:49:51 2014
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Subject: [mpls] Short working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13
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Working Group,

This is to initiate a short working group last call on
draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13.

Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

The background is that we pulled the document back from IESG evaluation
to update it due to some critical comments.

The version that we pulled back was version -10 and we are now at
version -13.

There are no IPR disclosures against this document. The authors and
the working group members have been asked in a separate mail to state
whether they are aware of other IPRs that relate to this document.

This working group last call ends July 23, 2014.

/Loa
for the MPLS wg chairs


-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Working Group,

The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs
that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make
it a working group document.

While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
lsp-ping?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)


From nobody Sat Jul 12 12:00:28 2014
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 19:00:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Loa,

As you indicate, there are two IPR disclosures related to this document: IP=
R # 2221 and # 2305. I am not aware of any other IPR relevant to this docum=
ent.

Thanks,

Carlos.

On Jul 12, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group,
>=20
> The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs
> that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make
> it a working group document.
>=20
> While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
> poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
> lsp-ping?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The doc=
ument will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)


From nobody Sat Jul 12 12:03:07 2014
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From: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" <ice@cisco.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding
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Same here!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Jul 2014, at 23:44, "Jeff Tantsura" <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
> Hi Loa,
>=20
> I=B9m not aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed.
> Thanks!
>=20
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Date: Friday, July 11, 2014 at 2:25 PM
> To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
> <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,
> "draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding@tools.ietf.org"
> <draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding@tools.ietf.org>, Martin
> Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
> Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encodin=
g
>=20
>> Working group,
>>=20
>> The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding has told
>> the wg chairs that it is time to start the working group last call on
>> this draft.
>>=20
>> We will do so shortly, we will start the IPR poll first and follow up
>> with the wglc.
>>=20
>> This mail starts that IPR poll.
>>=20
>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
>> draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding?
>>=20
>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>=20
>> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>=20
>> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
>> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>> received from each author and contributor.
>>=20
>> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>=20
>> Thanks, Loa
>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Sat Jul 12 14:55:14 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Hi Loa,

I am not aware of any other IPRs to this document besides IPRs # 2221 and #=
 2305.

Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 10:02 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-
> ping@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
> Subject: IPR poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs t=
hat
> the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make it a
> working group document.
>=20
> While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
> poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-pi=
ng?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see=
 RFCs
> 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to t=
his
> email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *Th=
e
> response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The document will
> not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from eac=
h
> author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any =
IPR
> that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)


From nobody Sat Jul 12 14:56:25 2014
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 14:56:20 -0700
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/6D9yI0mosRFbx4lsrhm5yyVkErE
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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None that I am aware off.

Sam

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs
> that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make
> it a working group document.
>=20
> While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
> poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
> lsp-ping?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The docu=
ment will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)


From nobody Sat Jul 12 16:58:14 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding
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I am not aware of any applicable IPR.


From nobody Sun Jul 13 08:13:08 2014
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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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From nobody Sun Jul 13 11:00:45 2014
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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Hi Loa,

I am not aware of any IPR other than IPR#2221 and 2305 related to this
document.

Thanks,
Nagendra

On 7/12/14, 10:02 AM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Working Group,
>
>The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs
>that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make
>it a working group document.
>
>While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
>poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
>
>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
>lsp-ping?
>
>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
>If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
>document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>received from each author and contributor.
>
>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>Thanks, Loa
>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>


From nobody Mon Jul 14 01:38:39 2014
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:38:41 +0200
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Implementation poll on draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping
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Working Group,

draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping has been updated after working group
last call (version -02) and we are almost ready to send it to the
IESG with a request for publication.

In preparing the shepherd write-up we need information on existing
implementations.

This is to start a poll for implementations of draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-
lsp-ping.

If you have an implementation please respond to the mailing-list
or directly to the wg-chairs.

/Loa
for the wg chairs
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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--_4b17cc96-6a70-4c1d-98b2-c688c0d7c7d7_--


From nobody Mon Jul 14 03:11:30 2014
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 11:11:03 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Support

This is a problem that we need to work on, and this is
a good place to start.

Stewart

On 12/07/2014 15:02, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs
> that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make
> it a working group document.
>
> While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
> poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
> lsp-ping?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>


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From nobody Mon Jul 14 04:36:21 2014
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Hello Loa,

You wrote:

> RFC 7271 took great care to make the PSC and APS identical from an
> operational point of view; does this mean that PSC (RFC 7271) could
> be used also?

For an operator the operational functions (lockout, forced switch, 
manual switch exercise, clear) are compatible with PSC/APS.

However:
One difference with PSC/APS is the PDU format: for ring protection
a source and destination address are required.
The other difference is the forwarding and processing of the RPS
PDUs in each node in the ring. RPS messages are send clockwise
around the ring, AND RPS messages are send counter-clockwise
around the ring.

Because of these differences we use RPS because this is dedicated
to Ring protection (it requires a A-Ch channel type different from
PSC).

Best regards, Huub.


> On 2014-07-11 11:03, weiqiang cheng wrote:
>> Hi Guoman,
>>
>> The "APS" should be "RPS" Ring Protection Switching, and It is
>> a clerical error. So sorry to make you confused. We will modify it in
>> late version.
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> B.R.
>> Weiqiang Cheng
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-11 14:51 GMT+08:00 <liu.guoman@zte.com.cn
>> <mailto:liu.guoman@zte.com.cn>>:
>>
>>     hi, weiqiang
>>     I have just reviewed this draft and a question for clause 3
>>     coordination protocol
>>       it seem to have two types protocol , one is RPS protocol in clause
>>     3.1. another is APS protocol in clause 3.2.
>>       is it necessary to use the two types of protocol in the mpls-tp
>>     ring protection?
>>       I think the answer is "no". how about it？
>>
>>     thank you !
>>
>>     B.R.
>>     liu
>>
>>     *weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com <mailto:chengwq@gmail.com>>*
>>     发件人:  "mpls" <mpls-bounces@ietf.org
>> <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>
>>
>>     2014-07-09 18:41
>>
>>     收件人
>>         "mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>,
>>     抄送
>>         "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>"
>>     <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>>
>>     主题
>>         [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
>>     protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology” ?
>>
>>     Hi There,
>>     We uploaded the new version draft “MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection
>>     (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology”
>>
>> _https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/_
>>
>>
>>     We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to
>>     review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments
>>     on the mailing list.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Weiqiang Cheng_______________________________________________



-- 
*****************************************************************
               请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 13:40:10 +0200
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Huub,

Are you saying that this can't be done using PSC? Or just that there is
a preference using RPS. Or that RPS is what you used?

/Loa

On 2014-07-14 13:36, Huub van Helvoort wrote:
> Hello Loa,
>
> You wrote:
>
>> RFC 7271 took great care to make the PSC and APS identical from an
>> operational point of view; does this mean that PSC (RFC 7271) could
>> be used also?
>
> For an operator the operational functions (lockout, forced switch,
> manual switch exercise, clear) are compatible with PSC/APS.
>
> However:
> One difference with PSC/APS is the PDU format: for ring protection
> a source and destination address are required.
> The other difference is the forwarding and processing of the RPS
> PDUs in each node in the ring. RPS messages are send clockwise
> around the ring, AND RPS messages are send counter-clockwise
> around the ring.
>
> Because of these differences we use RPS because this is dedicated
> to Ring protection (it requires a A-Ch channel type different from
> PSC).
>
> Best regards, Huub.
>
>
>> On 2014-07-11 11:03, weiqiang cheng wrote:
>>> Hi Guoman,
>>>
>>> The "APS" should be "RPS" Ring Protection Switching, and It is
>>> a clerical error. So sorry to make you confused. We will modify it in
>>> late version.
>>> Thanks a lot.
>>>
>>> B.R.
>>> Weiqiang Cheng
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-07-11 14:51 GMT+08:00 <liu.guoman@zte.com.cn
>>> <mailto:liu.guoman@zte.com.cn>>:
>>>
>>>     hi, weiqiang
>>>     I have just reviewed this draft and a question for clause 3
>>>     coordination protocol
>>>       it seem to have two types protocol , one is RPS protocol in clause
>>>     3.1. another is APS protocol in clause 3.2.
>>>       is it necessary to use the two types of protocol in the mpls-tp
>>>     ring protection?
>>>       I think the answer is "no". how about it？
>>>
>>>     thank you !
>>>
>>>     B.R.
>>>     liu
>>>
>>>     *weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com <mailto:chengwq@gmail.com>>*
>>>     发件人:  "mpls" <mpls-bounces@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>
>>>
>>>     2014-07-09 18:41
>>>
>>>     收件人
>>>         "mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>,
>>>     抄送
>>>         "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>     <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>>
>>>     主题
>>>         [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
>>>     protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology” ?
>>>
>>>     Hi There,
>>>     We uploaded the new version draft “MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection
>>>     (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology”
>>>
>>> _https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/_
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to
>>>     review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments
>>>     on the mailing list.
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>     Weiqiang Cheng_______________________________________________
>
>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Mon Jul 14 05:10:35 2014
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Hello Loa,

You reply:

> Are you saying that this can't be done using PSC?

That is indeed the case.
In PSC the two end nodes A and Z communicate with each-other,
there is no need to identify them in the PSC PDU.
In RPS a node has to communicate with its adjacent node which
has to be identified (in the RPS PDU).

> Or just that there is a preference using RPS.

The draft explains why we need a dedicated ring protection
mechanism.

> Or that RPS is what you used?

Yes, RPS is used already.

Best regards, Huub.


> On 2014-07-14 13:36, Huub van Helvoort wrote:
>> Hello Loa,
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>>> RFC 7271 took great care to make the PSC and APS identical from an
>>> operational point of view; does this mean that PSC (RFC 7271) could
>>> be used also?
>>
>> For an operator the operational functions (lockout, forced switch,
>> manual switch exercise, clear) are compatible with PSC/APS.
>>
>> However:
>> One difference with PSC/APS is the PDU format: for ring protection
>> a source and destination address are required.
>> The other difference is the forwarding and processing of the RPS
>> PDUs in each node in the ring. RPS messages are send clockwise
>> around the ring, AND RPS messages are send counter-clockwise
>> around the ring.
>>
>> Because of these differences we use RPS because this is dedicated
>> to Ring protection (it requires a A-Ch channel type different from
>> PSC).
>>
>> Best regards, Huub.
>>
>>
>>> On 2014-07-11 11:03, weiqiang cheng wrote:
>>>> Hi Guoman,
>>>>
>>>> The "APS" should be "RPS" Ring Protection Switching, and It is
>>>> a clerical error. So sorry to make you confused. We will modify it in
>>>> late version.
>>>> Thanks a lot.
>>>>
>>>> B.R.
>>>> Weiqiang Cheng
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-07-11 14:51 GMT+08:00 <liu.guoman@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:liu.guoman@zte.com.cn>>:
>>>>
>>>>     hi, weiqiang
>>>>     I have just reviewed this draft and a question for clause 3
>>>>     coordination protocol
>>>>       it seem to have two types protocol , one is RPS protocol in
>>>> clause
>>>>     3.1. another is APS protocol in clause 3.2.
>>>>       is it necessary to use the two types of protocol in the mpls-tp
>>>>     ring protection?
>>>>       I think the answer is "no". how about it？
>>>>
>>>>     thank you !
>>>>
>>>>     B.R.
>>>>     liu
>>>>
>>>>     *weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com <mailto:chengwq@gmail.com>>*
>>>>     发件人:  "mpls" <mpls-bounces@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>
>>>>
>>>>     2014-07-09 18:41
>>>>
>>>>     收件人
>>>>         "mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>" <mpls@ietf.org
>>>>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>,
>>>>     抄送
>>>>         "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>"
>>>>     <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
>>>>     <mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>>
>>>>     主题
>>>>         [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
>>>>     protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology” ?
>>>>
>>>>     Hi There,
>>>>     We uploaded the new version draft “MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection
>>>>     (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology”
>>>>
>>>> _https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/_
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to
>>>>     review it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments
>>>>     on the mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>     Weiqiang Cheng_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
*****************************************************************
               请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 11:24:26 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Jeong-dong,

Unless I missed something, I think we've closed all topics. Agreed?

Much thanks,
Lou

On 07/11/2014 05:00 PM, ·ùÁ¤µ¿ wrote:
> Lou, 
> 
> I sent the previous email without showing the proposed text. 
> The last sentence of the last paragraph in Section 4.1 will be:
> ------
> When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by 
> a particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
> available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
> if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
> switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail.
> The different working paths in the SMP network are involved in the resource 
> utilization coordination, which is a part of whole SMP protection switching coordination.
> ------
> Please, let me know if there is someting to improve.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jeong-dong
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> º¸³½ »ç¶÷: ·ùÁ¤µ¿
> º¸³½ ³¯¥: 2014³â 7¿ù 12ÀÏ Åä¿äÀÏ ¿ÀÀü 5:44
> ¹޴Â »ç¶÷: Lou Berger
> ÂüÁ¶: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Á¦¸ñ: ȸ½Å: [RTG-DIR] ȸ½Å: ȸ½Å:  [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
> 
> Lou,
> 
> Certainly, it can be done as you suggested.
> I also think that your suggested change would help the readibility of this document.
> Thanks a lot for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jeong-dong
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> º¸³½ »ç¶÷: Lou Berger [lberger@labn.net]
> º¸³½ ³¯¥: 2014³â 7¿ù 12ÀÏ Åä¿äÀÏ ¿ÀÀü 4:09
> ¹޴Â »ç¶÷: ·ùÁ¤µ¿
> ÂüÁ¶: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Á¦¸ñ: Re: [RTG-DIR] ȸ½Å: ȸ½Å:  [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
> 
> Thank you -- just one response and suggested change.
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 07/10/2014 09:43 AM, ·ùÁ¤µ¿ wrote:
>> Lou,
>>
>> Thank you for agreeing on most of the suggestions.
>> Please, see the lines starting with [JR2] below.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jeong-dong
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> º¸³½ »ç¶÷: Lou Berger [lberger@labn.net]
> ...
>>> This is fine, but I wonder why you are using "resource utilization" vs
>> "protection switch"? (this is actually a bit of a general comment -- I
>> the latter is an existing applicable term that would help readers how
>> this document fits in to the technology space.)
>>>
>>> [JR] As described in an earlier part of this section, SMP protection
>> consists of two operations: traffic switchover and resource utilization
>> coordination. The sentences are about the resource utilization
>> coordination, and ¡°resource utilization¡± seems to be more accurate.
>>
>> Is "resource utilization coordination" done via some form of inter-node
>> coordination? If yes, then I think my comment holds.  If no, then I
>> think you should elabotate on how the "coordination" in this case
>> differes from how you use "coordination" elsewhere in the document.
>> Either way, I think we've discussed this enough, i.e., I won't push this
>> point further.
>>
>> [JR2] "resource utilization coorination" occurs between the nodes as in other protection switching. "resource utilization coordination" is a part of whole SMP protection switching coordination and is meant to emphasize that coordination is for resource utilization. Of course, the reason why it does resource utilization coordination is to complete protection switching eventually.
>>
> 
> Okay. I think adding something along the lines of ""resource utilization
> coordination" is a part of whole SMP protection switching coordination "
> to the text would clarify your intent to future readers.
> ...
> 


From nobody Mon Jul 14 10:08:41 2014
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Marc Binderberger <marc@sniff.de>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals (ending July 15)
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals (ending July 15)
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Hi Marc, Mahesh, et. al,
to the best of my knowledge, I've added MPLS WG to the discussion in case I=
 have missed it, there's no explicit requirement to support 3.3 msec for th=
e benefit of MPLS-TP. But as we consider MPLS-TP to be foundation for packe=
t-switched transport and that there's explicit requirement to support sub-5=
0 msec protection switchover, then we conclude that, like in TDM transport,=
 10 msec is budgeted to detect a defect. Hence CFM/Y.1731 require support o=
f 3.3 msec. I think that support of 3.3 msec by a BFD implementation is a r=
equirement if sub-50 msec protection to be provided in a network. (Note, th=
at actual detection by CFM/Y.1731 and BFD will vary slightly.)

	Regards,
		Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Marc Binderber=
ger
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 11:54 PM
To: Mahesh Jethanandani
Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals (ending J=
uly 15)

Hello Mahesh,

> That is what happens when you have read the complete draft :-(

the full 8 pages, yes ;-)


> Question around the explanation provided in Appendix A.=20
>=20
> For 3.3ms: required by MPLS-TP -  is there a reference you can cite?=20
> Also, is this a requirement only for MPLS-TP?

MPLS-TP was at least driving this requirement. I have to ask my MPLS collea=
gues if this has been written down explicitly meanwhile.


> The rational for 20ms applies to 10ms (with a multiplier of 3) and explai=
ns=20
> the why. Better than saying general consensus and not explaining the why.=
=20
> Would you agree?

Various people have expressed their strong interest to have 10msec in the s=
et=20
of intervals. For various reasons. The ability to detect/restore in 50-60ms=
ec=20
is of course important but even more important was the fact that many vendo=
rs=20
are about to implement or have already implemented 10msec. That's why I wro=
te=20
"general consensus" instead of trying to rationalize the value.


Regards, Marc


>=20
> On Jul 8, 2014, at 9:27 PM, Marc Binderberger wrote:
>=20
>> Hello Mahesh,
>>=20
>> appendix A of the draft is explaining the selection.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Marc
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2014 17:42:41 -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
>>> Jeff et. all,
>>>=20
>>> Having just tried an interoperability BFD test between two vendor boxes=
,=20
>>> I=20
>>> can see why having the defined common intervals would be useful. So yes=
,=20
>>> a=20
>>> support for the draft.
>>>=20
>>> Would it be helpful to have some rational for why the said intervals we=
re=20
>>> selected? Typical rationals that I have heard for the faster intervals=
=20
>>> are=20
>>> that operators want a 50ms protection switchover. For that 3.3ms and 10=
ms=20
>>> meet the detection requirements. What goal is 20ms trying to achieve?
>>>=20
>>> A 100ms and 1s intervals are helpful for applications that do not have=
=20
>>> stringent requirements (e.g. protection of a voice stream) but can=20
>>> benefit=20
>>> from a quick detection. Examples include routing protocols that use BFD=
=20
>>> as=20
>>> a hello protocol.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Pablo Frank <pabloisnot@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>>> I'm working on a HW implementation that supports the proposed interval=
s=20
>>>> and the draft was useful in that context.  I can see that the non-Y.17=
31=20
>>>> standard intervals (i.e. 20ms, 50ms) could prove a challenge for some=
=20
>>>> existing hardware implementations, but these rates should be within th=
e=20
>>>> capability of most software implementations.  Even for existing hardwa=
re=20
>>>> implementations, since the new rates are a multiple of 10ms, it's=20
>>>> usually=20
>>>> not *that* challenging.  So yes/support.
>>>>=20
>>>> regards,
>>>> Pablo
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)=20
>>>> <venggovi@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Jeff,
>>>>>  From an implementer's perspective, I see this draft adds value by=20
>>>>> steering implementations towards a point of convergence. I support th=
is=20
>>>>> draft for publication.
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Prasad
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey=
=20
>>>>> Haas
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 4:21 AM
>>>>> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals=20
>>>>> (ending=20
>>>>> July 15)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We are coming up on the second week of this WGLC and have thus far on=
ly=20
>>>>> heard from one non-author. :-)  Please take a moment and review this=
=20
>>>>> draft, especially if you are an implementor.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -- Jeff
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:38:46PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
>>>>>> Working Group,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> We would like to initiate the start of Working Group Last Call for
>>>>>> Common Interval Support in BFD:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-intervals-01
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Note that the intended status of this document is INFORMATIONAL.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Please send your comments, including whether you think the draft is
>>>>>> ready for publication or not, to the list no later than July 15.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -- Jeff and Nobo
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>>> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>=20
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>=20
>=20
>=20


From nobody Mon Jul 14 10:56:43 2014
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:03:51 +0800
Message-ID: <CABYGD0GPMpRAFh=y9JpTHVtYH63=XbG84eDG=Q94GOvQ7f48Eg@mail.gmail.com>
From: weiqiang cheng <chengwq@gmail.com>
To: =?UTF-8?B?5pu+5bO75rOi?= <zjbdamo@hotmail.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" <draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?q?=5BMPLS=5D_Any_comments_on_the_draft_of_MPLS-TP_?= =?utf-8?q?Shared-Ring_protection_=28MSRP=29_mechanism_for_ring_topology?= =?utf-8?b?4oCdID8=?=
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Hi Bobo,



Thank you very much for your comments and suggestions. My answers are in
line:



1.according to this draft, there are some dedicated RING TUNNELs used for
'dual-node interconnected rings'. such as the R1cW_F&A, R1aW_F&A, R1cP_F&A,
R1aP_F&A and so on,and there are a virtual interconnecting node group
composed by node A and node F(in figure 12).

    a)how to map the virtual interconnecting node to real node. for RING1,
the two direction RING TUNNELS,R1cW_F&A,R1aW_F&A,which one will be
terminated at node A, and which one will be terminated  at node F. what is
the rule?



  [WQ]  As 2.5.2.1.mentioned, " - When the service traffic passes through
the interconnection node, the direction of the working ring tunnels in each
ring for this

   service traffic should be the same.  For example, if the working ring
tunnel follows the clockwise direction in Ring1, the working ring

   tunnel for the same service traffic in Ring2 also follows the clockwise
direction when the service leaves Ring1 and enters Ring2." If you follow
the rule,following mechanism will be executed:

      * In normal state: Ring tunnel to interconnected node group will be
terminated at the first interconnected node.

      * If the first interconnected node failure, the traffic will be
switched to protection ring tunnel and terminated in another interconnected
node.



    b)in figure 12, node F, i suppose there should be 4 choices when the
R2cW_FandA reach F.

       1st,when everything is ok, node F should terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and enter R2cW_I.

       2nd,when link between F and G is fail. node F should terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and enter R2aP_I.

       3rd, when link between F and G is fail,and the link between F and A
is fail too in RING 2. node F should not terminate the R2cW_FandA,and
stitch R2cW_FandA to node A.

       4th, when link between F and G is fail, and the links between F and
A are fail too in RING 2 and RING 1.node F should not terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and switch R2cW_FandA to R2cP_FandA,and terminate the RING
TUNNEL at node A.

       i wonder that is the all possibility? and the principle is the path
that cross ring take the higher precedence?



   [WQ] I think you have list all conditions. One comment for 3rd item:

        When link between F and G is fail,and the link between F and A is
fail too in RING 2. node F should not terminate the R1cW_FandA,and switch
R1cW_FandA to R1aP_FandA, and terminated the protection ring tunnel at Node
A.



2. in the section 5.2.2,P18, it seem the two figure 11 should be figure 12.



   [WQ] Yes=EF=BC=8Cit is a clerical error. We will correct it in next vers=
ion;

3.

in the figure 12,between the F and E,there should be a connection that is
part

of the R1aP_F&A and should mark with 'a'?


   [WQ] YES=EF=BC=8Cthe protected Ring tunnel is a closed ring. If dest nod=
e in
ring 2 is not reachedble, traffic will switched to the protection ring
tunnel in Node F.



B.R.

Weiqiang Cheng



*From:* =E6=9B=BE=E5=B3=BB=E6=B3=A2 [mailto:zjbdamo@hotmail.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:38 AM
*To:* weiqiang cheng
*Cc:* mpls@ietf.org;
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
*Subject:* RE: [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP
Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?



hi Weiqiang,
       please help me to clarify some doubts.
       1.according to this draft, there are some dedicated RING TUNNELs
used for  'dual-node interconnected rings'. such as the R1cW_F&A, R1aW_F&A,
R1cP_F&A, R1aP_F&A and so on,and there are a virtual interconnecting node
group composed by node A and node F(in figure 12).
           a)how to map the virtual interconnecting node to real node. for
RING1, the two direction RING TUNNELS,R1cW_F&A,R1aW_F&A,which one will be
terminated at node A, and which one will be terminated  at node F. what is
the rule?
           b)in figure 12, node F, i suppose there should be 4 choices when
the R2cW_FandA reach F.
              1st,when everything is ok, node F should terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and enter R2cW_I.
              2nd,when link between F and G is fail. node F should
terminate the R2cW_FandA,and enter R2aP_I.
              3rd, when link between F and G is fail,and the link between F
and A is fail too in RING 2. node F should not terminate the R2cW_FandA,and
stitch R2cW_FandA to node A.
              4th, when link between F and G is fail, and the links between
F and A are fail too in RING 2 and RING 1.node F should not terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and switch R2cW_FandA to R2cP_FandA,and terminate the RING
TUNNEL at node A.
              i wonder that is the all possibility? and the principle is
the path that cross ring take the higher precedence?

       2. in the section 5.2.2,P18, it seem the two figure 11 should be
figure 12.
       3. in the figure 12,between the F and E,there should be a connection
that is part of the R1aP_F&A and should mark with 'a'?


         Best Regards!
         Bobo


2014-07-09 19:07 GMT+08:00 =E6=9B=BE=E5=B3=BB=E6=B3=A2 <zjbdamo@hotmail.com=
>:

> hi,Weiqiang Cheng
>       i have some question about the
> "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-02".
>   1.  the different between "normal wrapping" and "P2P shout wrapping".
>   2.  can i use the RING APS protocol defined in G.8132 to implement the
> scheme of this document.
>   3.  for the 'dual-node interconnected rings', there must be the same
> forwarding information between node C and node D in figure 11?
>
> Best Regards!
> BoBo
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 18:41:01 +0800
> From: chengwq@gmail.com
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> CC: draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP Shared-Ring
> protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?
>
>
> Hi There,
>
> We uploaded the new version draft =E2=80=9CMPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection=
 (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protecti=
on/
>
> We authors would like to see comments on this draft. Please help to revie=
w it and It would be highly appreciated to send your comments on the mailin=
g list.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Weiqiang Cheng
>
>
> _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--047d7bea2ee220c92504fe36d9fe
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Bobo,</=
span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thank you very much for you=
r comments and
suggestions. My answers are in line:</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1.according to this draft, =
there are some
dedicated RING TUNNELs used for=C2=A0
&#39;dual-node interconnected rings&#39;. such as the R1cW_F&amp;A,
R1aW_F&amp;A, R1cP_F&amp;A, R1aP_F&amp;A and so on,and there are a virtual
interconnecting node group composed by node A and node F(in figure 12).</sp=
an></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
a)how to map the virtual interconnecting node to real node. for RING1,
the two direction RING TUNNELS,R1cW_F&amp;A,R1aW_F&amp;A,which one will be
terminated at node A, and which one will be terminated=C2=A0 at node F. wha=
t is the rule?</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0
[WQ] =C2=A0As 2.5.2.1.mentioned, &quot; - When the service traffic passes
through the interconnection node, the direction of the working ring tunnels=
 in
each ring for this</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0
service traffic should be the same.=C2=A0
For example, if the working ring tunnel follows the clockwise direction
in Ring1, the working ring</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0
tunnel for the same service traffic in Ring2 also follows the clockwise
direction when the service leaves Ring1 and enters Ring2.&quot; If you foll=
ow
the rule,following mechanism will be executed:</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
* In normal state: Ring tunnel to interconnected node group will be
terminated at the first interconnected node. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
* If the first interconnected node failure, the traffic will be switched
to protection ring tunnel and terminated in another interconnected node.</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
b)in figure 12, node F, i suppose there should be 4 choices when the
R2cW_FandA reach F.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0
1st,when everything is ok, node F should terminate the R2cW_FandA,and
enter R2cW_I.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0
2nd,when link between F and G is fail. node F should terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and enter R2aP_I.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0
3rd, when link between F and G is fail,and the link between F and A is
fail too in RING 2. node F should not terminate the R2cW_FandA,and stitch
R2cW_FandA to node A.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0
4th, when link between F and G is fail, and the links between F and A
are fail too in RING 2 and RING 1.node F should not terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and switch R2cW_FandA to R2cP_FandA,and terminate the RING TUNNE=
L at
node A.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0
i wonder that is the all possibility? and the principle is the path that
cross ring take the higher precedence?</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><br>
</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0
[WQ] I think you have list all conditions. One comment for 3rd item:</span>=
</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
When link between F and G is fail,and the link between F and A is fail
too in RING 2. node F should not terminate the R1cW_FandA,and switch R1cW_F=
andA
to R1aP_FandA, and terminated the protection ring tunnel at Node A.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">2. in the section 5.2.2,P18=
, it seem the
two figure 11 should be figure 12. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0
[WQ] Yes</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=EF=BC=
=8C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">it is a
clerical error. We will correct it in next version;</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">3.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">in the figure 12,between th=
e F and E,there
should be a connection that is part</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">of the R1aP_F&amp;A and sho=
uld mark with
&#39;a&#39;?</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>=
</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0
[WQ] YES</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=EF=BC=
=8C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">the
protected Ring tunnel is a closed ring. If dest node in ring 2 is not
reachedble, traffic will switched to the protection ring tunnel in Node F.<=
/span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">B.R.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Weiqiang Cheng</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt">=E6=9B=BE=E5=B3=BB=E6=B3=A2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zjbdamo@hotmail.com">zjbdamo@hotmail.com</a>] <br=
>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> weiqiang cheng<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org=
">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP
Shared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?</span>=
</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91,sans-serif">hi Weiq=
iang,<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 please help me to clarify some doubts.=
<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1.according to this draft, there are s=
ome
dedicated RING TUNNELs used for=C2=A0 &#39;dual-node interconnected rings&#=
39;. such as
the R1cW_F&amp;A, R1aW_F&amp;A, R1cP_F&amp;A, R1aP_F&amp;A and so on,and th=
ere
are a virtual interconnecting node group composed by node A and node F(in
figure 12).<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a)how to map t=
he
virtual interconnecting node to real node. for RING1, the two direction RIN=
G
TUNNELS,R1cW_F&amp;A,R1aW_F&amp;A,which one will be terminated at node A, a=
nd
which one will be terminated=C2=A0 at node F. what is the rule?<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 b)in figure 12=
,
node F, i suppose there should be 4 choices when the R2cW_FandA reach F.<br=
>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
1st,when everything is ok, node F should terminate the R2cW_FandA,and enter
R2cW_I.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
2nd,when link between F and G is fail. node F should terminate the
R2cW_FandA,and enter R2aP_I.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
3rd, when link between F and G is fail,and the link between F and A is fail=
 too
in RING 2. node F should not terminate the R2cW_FandA,and stitch R2cW_FandA=
 to
node A.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
4th, when link between F and G is fail, and the links between F and A are f=
ail
too in RING 2 and RING 1.node F should not terminate the R2cW_FandA,and swi=
tch
R2cW_FandA to R2cP_FandA,and terminate the RING TUNNEL at node A.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
i wonder that is the all possibility? and the principle is the path that cr=
oss
ring take the higher precedence?<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <b=
r>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. in the section 5.2.2,P18, it seem t=
he
two figure 11 should be figure 12.<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3. in the figure 12,between the F and
E,there should be a connection that is part of the R1aP_F&amp;A and should =
mark
with &#39;a&#39;?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Best Regards!<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bobo</span></p></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-07-09 19:07 G=
MT+08:00 =E6=9B=BE=E5=B3=BB=E6=B3=A2 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:zjbdamo@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">zjbdamo@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">hi,Weiqiang Cheng<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 i=
 have some question about the &quot;draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protect=
ion-02&quot;.<br>=C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 the different between &quot;normal wrappin=
g&quot; and &quot;P2P shout wrapping&quot;.<br>
=C2=A0 2.=C2=A0 can i use the RING APS protocol defined in G.8132 to implem=
ent the scheme of this document.<br>=C2=A0 3.=C2=A0 for the &#39;dual-node =
interconnected rings&#39;, there must be the same forwarding information be=
tween node C and node D in figure 11?<br>
<br>Best Regards! <br>BoBo<br><br><br><div><hr>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 18:41:=
01 +0800<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:chengwq@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ch=
engwq@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
CC: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ie=
tf.org</a><br>Subject: [mpls] [MPLS] Any comments on the draft of MPLS-TP S=
hared-Ring protection (MSRP) mechanism for ring topology=E2=80=9D ?<div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi The=
re,</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We uploaded the new version draft=
 </span>=E2=80=9C<span lang=3D"EN-US">MPLS-TP Shared-Ring protection (MSRP)=
 mechanism for ring topology</span>=E2=80=9D</pre>

<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection/</a></span></pre=
>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We authors would like to see comments on this dra=
ft. Please help to review it and It would be highly appreciated to send you=
r comments on the mailing list.</span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Than=
ks,</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Weiqiang Cheng</span></pre></div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bea2ee220c92504fe36d9fe--


From nobody Tue Jul 15 05:16:06 2014
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 14:15:49 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: [mpls] IETF90 - MPLS - Agenda available - Please send your presentation material
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All,

the agenda is on-line:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/agenda/agenda-90-mpls

Please have a look at it.

Speakers, please start sending me your presentation material, and please 
do so before July the 21st (Monday), local time.

Thank you

Martin


From nobody Tue Jul 15 09:48:52 2014
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 09:49:02 -0700
From: Marc Binderberger <marc@sniff.de>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals (ending July 15)
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Hello Greg et al.,

indeed, I got a similar feedback from my colleagues working on MPLS-TP. Have 
to look into the particular documents (e.g. G.783) to see it with my own eyes 
but it seems the budget is 10msec detection + 50msec restoration. Always 
thought it's the other way around.

Then the 10msec detection time lead to 3 x 3.3msec, yes.

I will update our document with a sentence, especially as I haven't found any 
IETF reference (draft/RFC) with an explicit requirement for MPLS-TP. It's 
"borrowed" from Sonet/SDH specs.


Thanks for confirming!


Regards, Martc


On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:08:31 +0000, Gregory Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Marc, Mahesh, et. al,
> to the best of my knowledge, I've added MPLS WG to the discussion in case I 
> have missed it, there's no explicit requirement to support 3.3 msec for the 
> benefit of MPLS-TP. But as we consider MPLS-TP to be foundation for 
> packet-switched transport and that there's explicit requirement to support 
> sub-50 msec protection switchover, then we conclude that, like in TDM 
> transport, 10 msec is budgeted to detect a defect. Hence CFM/Y.1731 require 
> support of 3.3 msec. I think that support of 3.3 msec by a BFD 
> implementation is a requirement if sub-50 msec protection to be provided in 
> a network. (Note, that actual detection by CFM/Y.1731 and BFD will vary 
> slightly.)
> 
> 	Regards,
> 		Greg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Marc 
> Binderberger
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 11:54 PM
> To: Mahesh Jethanandani
> Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals (ending 
> July 15)
> 
> Hello Mahesh,
> 
>> That is what happens when you have read the complete draft :-(
> 
> the full 8 pages, yes ;-)
> 
> 
>> Question around the explanation provided in Appendix A. 
>> 
>> For 3.3ms: required by MPLS-TP -  is there a reference you can cite? 
>> Also, is this a requirement only for MPLS-TP?
> 
> MPLS-TP was at least driving this requirement. I have to ask my MPLS 
> colleagues if this has been written down explicitly meanwhile.
> 
> 
>> The rational for 20ms applies to 10ms (with a multiplier of 3) and 
>> explains 
>> the why. Better than saying general consensus and not explaining the why. 
>> Would you agree?
> 
> Various people have expressed their strong interest to have 10msec in the 
> set 
> of intervals. For various reasons. The ability to detect/restore in 
> 50-60msec 
> is of course important but even more important was the fact that many 
> vendors 
> are about to implement or have already implemented 10msec. That's why I 
> wrote 
> "general consensus" instead of trying to rationalize the value.
> 
> 
> Regards, Marc
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 9:27 PM, Marc Binderberger wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Mahesh,
>>> 
>>> appendix A of the draft is explaining the selection.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Marc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2014 17:42:41 -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
>>>> Jeff et. all,
>>>> 
>>>> Having just tried an interoperability BFD test between two vendor boxes, 
>>>> I 
>>>> can see why having the defined common intervals would be useful. So yes, 
>>>> a 
>>>> support for the draft.
>>>> 
>>>> Would it be helpful to have some rational for why the said intervals 
>>>> were 
>>>> selected? Typical rationals that I have heard for the faster intervals 
>>>> are 
>>>> that operators want a 50ms protection switchover. For that 3.3ms and 
>>>> 10ms 
>>>> meet the detection requirements. What goal is 20ms trying to achieve?
>>>> 
>>>> A 100ms and 1s intervals are helpful for applications that do not have 
>>>> stringent requirements (e.g. protection of a voice stream) but can 
>>>> benefit 
>>>> from a quick detection. Examples include routing protocols that use BFD 
>>>> as 
>>>> a hello protocol.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Pablo Frank <pabloisnot@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I'm working on a HW implementation that supports the proposed intervals 
>>>>> and the draft was useful in that context.  I can see that the 
>>>>> non-Y.1731 
>>>>> standard intervals (i.e. 20ms, 50ms) could prove a challenge for some 
>>>>> existing hardware implementations, but these rates should be within the 
>>>>> capability of most software implementations.  Even for existing 
>>>>> hardware 
>>>>> implementations, since the new rates are a multiple of 10ms, it's 
>>>>> usually 
>>>>> not *that* challenging.  So yes/support.
>>>>> 
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> Pablo
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi) 
>>>>> <venggovi@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Jeff,
>>>>>>  From an implementer's perspective, I see this draft adds value by 
>>>>>> steering implementations towards a point of convergence. I support 
>>>>>> this 
>>>>>> draft for publication.
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Prasad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
>>>>>> Haas
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 4:21 AM
>>>>>> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-bfd-intervals 
>>>>>> (ending 
>>>>>> July 15)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We are coming up on the second week of this WGLC and have thus far 
>>>>>> only 
>>>>>> heard from one non-author. :-)  Please take a moment and review this 
>>>>>> draft, especially if you are an implementor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- Jeff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:38:46PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
>>>>>>> Working Group,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We would like to initiate the start of Working Group Last Call for
>>>>>>> Common Interval Support in BFD:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-intervals-01
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Note that the intended status of this document is INFORMATIONAL.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please send your comments, including whether you think the draft is
>>>>>>> ready for publication or not, to the list no later than July 15.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- Jeff and Nobo
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>>>> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>> 
>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net>, "draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 02:24:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
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Hi Ravi, et al,

[comment 1]
The document seems to be describing two different topics.
1. Data plane behavior regarding ELI/EL with stitched and/or hierarchical L=
SPs.
2. How to extend EL usage wider than actual capabilities of involved LSRs.

I agree that the two topics are rather related, but I find (1) to be a very=
 useful information to vendors and (2) to be an optimization.
Is there any particular reason why the two topics cannot be broken up into =
two separate documents? That may result in much clearer documents.


[comment 2]
>From what I understand of the data plane behaviors, they boil down to follo=
wing 4 things.

Behavior for an ingress LSR programmed to push [transport label(s), ELI, EL=
]:
a. The LSR SHOULD NOT push [ELI, EL] if the label stack already contain [EL=
I, EL], and SHOULD only push [transport label(s)].
b. If the LSR popping N transport labels includes popping of [ELI, EL], the=
 LSR MAY reuse the popped [EL] value when needing to push [ELI, EL].
c. If the LSR popping N transport labels expose [ELI, EL] as top labels, th=
e LSR MAY preserve the exposed [ELI, EL] in the label stack and only push [=
transport label(s)].

Behavior for an ingress LSR of ELC-not-capable LSP:
d. The LSR MUST ensure [ELI, EL] do not immediately follow label(s) pushed =
or swapped by the LSR.

Note, in the document, (a) is described as a procedure if [ELI, EL] are fou=
nd under the top label only, but I don't think we need to make such restric=
tion. Section 4.3. does is likely the reason why you restricted this to the=
 top label only, but I prefer that this rule be kept simple and not restric=
ted.  If you really want to ensure that [ELI, EL] appears near the top, the=
n additional rule will do the job.

a-variant: The LSR SHOULD NOT push [ELI, EL] if the label stack already con=
tain [ELI, EL], and SHOULD only push [transport label(s)]. The LSR MAY stil=
l push [transport label(s), ELI, EL] if [ELI, EL] found is deep in the labe=
l stack.

Do above (a-d), more or less, align with data plane rules you have in mind?


[comment 3 (nitpick)]

[snip from draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls-02]

3. Key attributes of the entropy label solution: Summary from [EL-RFC]
[...]
     - Transport-label-POPing router POPs (ELI+EL) PHR/egress of the
       LSP is responsible for POPing off the (ELI+EL) after it has
       been exposed as the top label on the packet due to POPing the
       transport label. The removal of the (ELI+EL) is done either
       when the ELI is the top label; or when the ELI is next label
       below the top label being POPed.

It's a bit of a nitpick, but above is probably not an accurate reflection o=
f RFC6790 regarding Penultimate Hop LSR behavior, as RFC6790 states:

[snip from RFC6790]

4.4.  Penultimate Hop LSR

   No change is needed at penultimate hop LSRs.  However, a PHP LSR that
   recognizes the ELI MAY choose to pop the ELI and following label
   (which should be an entropy label) in addition to popping the tunnel
   label, provided that doing so doesn't diminish its ability to load
   balance on the next hop.


Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ravi Singh [mailto:ravis@juniper.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:21 PM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-
> mpls@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
>=20
> Hi Nobo
> We have a new version of this draft:
> 	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-
> mpls-02
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:23 AM
> > To: draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
> >
> > Hi Ravi, Yimin,
> >
> > I have couple of comments.
> >
> > 1. Stitched LSP - Proposed really offers optimization in stitched
> > scenario.
> >
> > a. Allows EL usage for even wider than just EL capable segments.
> > b. Potentially speeds data traversal over stitched LSP as number of
> > times ELI/EL popped/pushed are reduced.
> >
> > Document sort of eludes to this, but I think it'll be beneficial to
> > state that things will work as is (RFC6790), but proposal can be used
> > as optimization.
>=20
> The optimization aspect has been called out in the latest version.
>=20
>=20
> > 2. Hierarchical LSP
> >
> > >   B. Preventing multiple (ELI+EL) pairs underneath a given forwarding
> > >       label in the stack:
> >
> > I highly support above statement. Having multiple ELs in the stack
> > will, yet again, cause more changes required in LSP traceroute wrt
> > multipath information handling, and requires even more complex
> > computation by initiator to traverse ECMP paths.
>=20
> Great that we are in agreement.
> Ravi
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -Nobo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >


From nobody Thu Jul 17 17:51:14 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
Thread-Index: AQHPmeuyvEqL5d1/1ESW4A59wRYjn5ukwbEw
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Hi Loa,

I have read the document and on-list discussions around this document.

I believe this document solves a necessary problem, and I believe the desir=
e to define a solution based on the LMAP framework should not block the pro=
gress of this document (i.e. the two should be pursued independently).

Therefore, I support the adoption of this document as a WG document.

Below lists few comments which I would like to see addressed, but not block=
ers before becoming a WG document.

[snip from Section 4]
   If the URO is expected but is not present in Query message and an
   MPLS-PLDM Response is requested out-of-band, the Query message MUST
   NOT be processed further.  If received over a bidirectional LSP, the
   control code of the Response message MUST be set to "Error - Missing
   TLV" and a Response SHOULD be sent over the reverse LSP.

[snip from Section 4.3]
   If an Out-of-band response is requested and the Address object or the
   URO is missing, the Query SHOULD be dropped in the case of a
   unidirectional LSP.  If both these TLVs are missing on a
   bidirectional LSP, the control code of Response message should set to
   "Invalid Message" and the response SHOULD be sent over the reverse
   LSP.

Both snippets are describing the same procedure but there's a conflict with=
 control code value mandated.
     =3D> "Missing TLV" (TBD) vs. "Invalid Message" (0x1C)

In the second snippet from Section 4.3 above, I believe the condition shoul=
d be && and not ||.

s/and the Address object or the URO is missing/and the Address object and t=
he URO are missing/

[snip from Section 5]
   Nothing in this document precludes the use of a configured UDP/IP
   return path in a deployment in which configuration is preferred to
   signalling.  In these circumstances the URO MAY be omitted from the
   MPLS-PLDM messages.

I'd like to propose a slightly different text, because such configuration m=
ay be to setup a default target for the response, in which case URO will be=
 more preferred.

[suggested text]
   Nothing in this document precludes the use of a configured UDP/IP
   return path that is more preferred than the target specified in
   received UROs.  In these circumstances, the UROs in received MPLS-PM
   Query MAY be ignored.  Alternatively use of a configured UDP/IP
   return path as a default target may be specified (i.e. less preferred
   than UROs).  In these circumstances, the absence of the UROs in
   received MPLS-PM Query SHOULD NOT be treated as an error.

--- nits ---

[Abstract]
s/proceedure/procedure/

[Introduction, last paragraph]
s/reponse/response/

[Solution Overview, first paragraph]
s/querry/query/

[Sending an MPLS-PM Response, second paragraph]
s/incuded/included/

[Sending an MPLS-PM Response, second paragraph]
s/Session Indentifier/Session Identifier/

Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:59 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
> Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-
> oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
>=20
> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us that the
> draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus to make it a work=
ing
> group document.
>=20
> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>=20
> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the ado=
ption
> poll.
>=20
> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>=20
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
> (mpls@ietf.org)
>=20
> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>=20
> /Loa
> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Thu Jul 17 18:59:07 2014
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Hi all,

I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I just=
 noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6) proposes a way to carry metadata/con=
text in an MPLS packet (see below):

"3.  Metadata Channel Header Format

   The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
   the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
   Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
   utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
   identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
   followed by a non-service payload.

   [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
   the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
   in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
   [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
   traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
   nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
   interpreted using the semantics defined in
   [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
   through the G-ACh channel."

However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above stil=
l conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:

"  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
   user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
   appear more than once in the label stack."

I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above draf=
t would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Proto=
col Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. W=
ith such PT field, any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header o=
r NSH) can be easily identified.

Best regards,
Xiaohu


From nobody Thu Jul 17 20:11:05 2014
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From: <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>
To: <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
Thread-Index: Ac+iK9IiUw61Lt1oTZi1TxTMkTltPwACfNZj
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 03:10:56 +0000
Message-ID: <1405653056176.39234@surrey.ac.uk>
References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>
In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>
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Cc: spring@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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How? A better question is "why?"=0A=
=0A=
What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?=0A=
=0A=
Lloyd Wood=0A=
http://about.me/lloydwood=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.c=
om>=0A=
Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM=0A=
To: mpls@ietf.org=0A=
Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet=0A=
=0A=
Hi all,=0A=
=0A=
I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I just=
 noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6) proposes a way to carry metadata/con=
text in an MPLS packet (see below):=0A=
=0A=
"3.  Metadata Channel Header Format=0A=
=0A=
   The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in=0A=
   the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic=0A=
   Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is=0A=
   utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to=0A=
   identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"=0A=
   followed by a non-service payload.=0A=
=0A=
   [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting=0A=
   the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label=0A=
   in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further=0A=
   [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data=0A=
   traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first=0A=
   nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be=0A=
   interpreted using the semantics defined in=0A=
   [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried=0A=
   through the G-ACh channel."=0A=
=0A=
However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above stil=
l conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:=0A=
=0A=
"  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal=0A=
   user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT=0A=
   appear more than once in the label stack."=0A=
=0A=
I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above draf=
t would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Proto=
col Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. W=
ith such PT field, any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header o=
r NSH) can be easily identified.=0A=
=0A=
Best regards,=0A=
Xiaohu=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
mpls mailing list=0A=
mpls@ietf.org=0A=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls=0A=


From nobody Thu Jul 17 20:18:05 2014
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "l.wood@surrey.ac.uk" <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
Thread-Index: Ac+iK9IiUw61Lt1oTZi1TxTMkTltPwACfNZjAAAtuoA=
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 03:17:51 +0000
Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294173@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>
References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653056176.39234@surrey.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in the enc=
apsulation. I think that's the "why" you may want to know.

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM
> To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>=20
> How? A better question is "why?"
>=20
> What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?
>=20
> Lloyd Wood
> http://about.me/lloydwood
> ________________________________________
> From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu
> <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I ju=
st
> noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6) propo=
ses
> a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
>=20
> "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
>=20
>    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
>    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
>    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
>    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
>    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
>    followed by a non-service payload.
>=20
>    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
>    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
>    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
>    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
>    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
>    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
>    interpreted using the semantics defined in
>    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
>    through the G-ACh channel."
>=20
> However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above st=
ill
> conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
>=20
> "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
>    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
>    appear more than once in the label stack."
>=20
> I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above dr=
aft
> would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether
> it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Protocol T=
ype (PT)
> field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such PT =
field,
> any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be eas=
ily
> identified.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Thu Jul 17 20:22:35 2014
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From: <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>
To: <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
Thread-Index: Ac+iK9IiUw61Lt1oTZi1TxTMkTltPwACfNZjAAAtuoAAADRSVw==
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 03:22:26 +0000
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References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653056176.39234@surrey.ac.uk>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294173@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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No, my "why" is "why have metadata in the MPLS header at all"?=0A=
=0A=
Why does this have to be done inband?=0A=
=0A=
I am questioning the basis for doing this. There is no "must" here.=0A=
=0A=
Lloyd Wood=0A=
http://about.me/lloydwood=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>=0A=
Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 1:17 PM=0A=
To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); mpls@ietf.org=0A=
Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet=0A=
=0A=
The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in the enc=
apsulation. I think that's the "why" you may want to know.=0A=
=0A=
Best regards,=0A=
Xiaohu=0A=
=0A=
> -----Original Message-----=0A=
> From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]=0A=
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM=0A=
> To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org=0A=
> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org=0A=
> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet=0A=
>=0A=
> How? A better question is "why?"=0A=
>=0A=
> What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?=0A=
>=0A=
> Lloyd Wood=0A=
> http://about.me/lloydwood=0A=
> ________________________________________=0A=
> From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu=0A=
> <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>=0A=
> Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM=0A=
> To: mpls@ietf.org=0A=
> Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org=0A=
> Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet=0A=
>=0A=
> Hi all,=0A=
>=0A=
> I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I ju=
st=0A=
> noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00=0A=
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6) propo=
ses=0A=
> a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):=0A=
>=0A=
> "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format=0A=
>=0A=
>    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in=0A=
>    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic=0A=
>    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is=0A=
>    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to=0A=
>    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"=
=0A=
>    followed by a non-service payload.=0A=
>=0A=
>    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting=
=0A=
>    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label=
=0A=
>    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further=0A=
>    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data=0A=
>    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first=0A=
>    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be=
=0A=
>    interpreted using the semantics defined in=0A=
>    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried=0A=
>    through the G-ACh channel."=0A=
>=0A=
> However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above st=
ill=0A=
> conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:=0A=
>=0A=
> "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal=0A=
>    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT=0A=
>    appear more than once in the label stack."=0A=
>=0A=
> I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above dr=
aft=0A=
> would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether=0A=
> it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Protocol T=
ype (PT)=0A=
> field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such PT =
field,=0A=
> any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be eas=
ily=0A=
> identified.=0A=
>=0A=
> Best regards,=0A=
> Xiaohu=0A=
>=0A=
> _______________________________________________=0A=
> mpls mailing list=0A=
> mpls@ietf.org=0A=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls=0A=


From nobody Thu Jul 17 23:33:24 2014
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "l.wood@surrey.ac.uk" <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
Thread-Index: Ac+iK9IiUw61Lt1oTZi1TxTMkTltPwACfNZjAAAtuoAAADRSVwAGdgOQ
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:33:09 +0000
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References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653056176.39234@surrey.ac.uk>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294173@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653745773.33083@surrey.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:22 AM
> To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>=20
> No, my "why" is "why have metadata in the MPLS header at all"?

You could choose to carry the metadata context instead of the metadata itse=
lf in the data packet (See section 3.5 of the following draft (http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sfc-metadata-considerations-00#page-8)).

> Why does this have to be done inband?

It doesn't have to be done inband. However, since In-band marking (see sect=
ion 3.1 of the following draft (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sf=
c-metadata-considerations-00#page-8)) ) is one of the approaches of metadat=
a sharing, I'm just considering how to realize that in-band approach in the=
 MPLS case.

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> I am questioning the basis for doing this. There is no "must" here.
>=20
> Lloyd Wood
> http://about.me/lloydwood
> ________________________________________
> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 1:17 PM
> To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>=20
> The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in the
> encapsulation. I think that's the "why" you may want to know.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> >
> > How? A better question is "why?"
> >
> > What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?
> >
> > Lloyd Wood
> > http://about.me/lloydwood
> > ________________________________________
> > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu
> > <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I
> > just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00
> > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
> > proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
> >
> > "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
> >
> >    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
> >    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
> >    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
> >    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
> >    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
> >    followed by a non-service payload.
> >
> >    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
> >    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom labe=
l
> >    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
> >    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
> >    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
> >    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
> >    interpreted using the semantics defined in
> >    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
> >    through the G-ACh channel."
> >
> > However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above
> > still conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
> >
> > "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
> >    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
> >    appear more than once in the label stack."
> >
> > I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above
> > draft would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I
> > wonder whether it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of
> > introducing a Protocol Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of
> > the MPLS label stack. With such PT field, any kind of future MPLS
> > payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be easily identified.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Xiaohu
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Thu Jul 17 23:42:16 2014
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "l.wood@surrey.ac.uk" <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:41:55 +0000
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References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653056176.39234@surrey.ac.uk>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294173@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653745773.33083@surrey.ac.uk> 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xuxiaohu
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 2:33 PM
> To: 'l.wood@surrey.ac.uk'; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:22 AM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> >
> > No, my "why" is "why have metadata in the MPLS header at all"?
>=20
> You could choose to carry the metadata context instead of the metadata it=
self in
> the data packet (See section 3.5 of the following draft
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sfc-metadata-considerations-00#=
page-
> 8)).
>=20
> > Why does this have to be done inband?
>=20
> It doesn't have to be done inband. However, since In-band marking (see se=
ction
> 3.1 of the following draft
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sfc-metadata-considerations-00#=
page-
> 8)) ) is one of the approaches of metadata sharing, I'm just considering =
how to
> realize that in-band approach in the MPLS case.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>=20
> > I am questioning the basis for doing this. There is no "must" here.

By the way, you are right that carrying metadata or metadata context within=
 data packets is optional, rather than mandatory.

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> > Lloyd Wood
> > http://about.me/lloydwood
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 1:17 PM
> > To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> >
> > The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
> > the encapsulation. I think that's the "why" you may want to know.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Xiaohu
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM
> > > To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
> > > Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> > >
> > > How? A better question is "why?"
> > >
> > > What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?
> > >
> > > Lloyd Wood
> > > http://about.me/lloydwood
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu
> > > <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM
> > > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet.
> > > I just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00
> > > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
> > > proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below=
):
> > >
> > > "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
> > >
> > >    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated i=
n
> > >    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
> > >    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
> > >    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
> > >    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH=
)"
> > >    followed by a non-service payload.
> > >
> > >    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setti=
ng
> > >    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom la=
bel
> > >    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
> > >    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
> > >    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
> > >    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, =
be
> > >    interpreted using the semantics defined in
> > >    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
> > >    through the G-ACh channel."
> > >
> > > However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned
> > > above still conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC55=
86]:
> > >
> > > "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting norma=
l
> > >    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
> > >    appear more than once in the label stack."
> > >
> > > I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the
> > > above draft would result in any backward compatibility issue. In
> > > addition, I wonder whether it's worthwhile to reconsider the
> > > possibility of introducing a Protocol Type (PT) field immediately
> > > after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such PT field, any
> > > kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be eas=
ily
> identified.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Xiaohu
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 07:43:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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From: "Jim Guichard (jguichar)" <jguichar@cisco.com>
To: "l.wood@surrey.ac.uk" <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>, "xuxiaohu@huawei.com" <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 10:26:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [sfc] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Hi Lloyd,

I believe that Xiaohu means that we need a way to *indicate* that metadata
follows the bottom of the MPLS label stack. There are multiple ways to do
that and as Robert quite rightly pointed out some mechanisms already exist
such as reserved labels, special-purpose labels, context labels, my old
draft (which FYI has expired) etc.

On 7/17/14, 11:22 PM, "l.wood@surrey.ac.uk" <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk> wrote:

>No, my "why" is "why have metadata in the MPLS header at all"?
>
>Why does this have to be done inband?
>
>I am questioning the basis for doing this. There is no "must" here.
>
>Lloyd Wood
>http://about.me/lloydwood
>________________________________________
>From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
>Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 1:17 PM
>To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); mpls@ietf.org
>Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>
>The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in the
>encapsulation. I think that's the "why" you may want to know.
>
>Best regards,
>Xiaohu
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
>> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM
>> To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
>> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>>
>> How? A better question is "why?"
>>
>> What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?
>>
>> Lloyd Wood
>> http://about.me/lloydwood
>> ________________________________________
>> From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu
>> <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
>> Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM
>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>> Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org
>> Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I
>>just
>> noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
>>proposes
>> a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
>>
>> "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
>>
>>    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
>>    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
>>    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
>>    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
>>    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
>>    followed by a non-service payload.
>>
>>    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
>>    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
>>    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
>>    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
>>    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
>>    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
>>    interpreted using the semantics defined in
>>    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
>>    through the G-ACh channel."
>>
>> However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above
>>still
>> conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
>>
>> "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
>>    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
>>    appear more than once in the label stack."
>>
>> I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above
>>draft
>> would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder
>>whether
>> it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Protocol
>>Type (PT)
>> field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such
>>PT field,
>> any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be
>>easily
>> identified.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Xiaohu
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>_______________________________________________
>sfc mailing list
>sfc@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 11:43:35 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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On 18/07/2014 01:50, Nobo Akiya (nobo) wrote:
> Hi Loa,
>
> I have read the document and on-list discussions around this document.
>
> I believe this document solves a necessary problem, and I believe the desire to define a solution based on the LMAP framework should not block the progress of this document (i.e. the two should be pursued independently).
>
> Therefore, I support the adoption of this document as a WG document.
>
> Below lists few comments which I would like to see addressed, but not blockers before becoming a WG document.
>
> [snip from Section 4]
>     If the URO is expected but is not present in Query message and an
>     MPLS-PLDM Response is requested out-of-band, the Query message MUST
>     NOT be processed further.  If received over a bidirectional LSP, the
>     control code of the Response message MUST be set to "Error - Missing
>     TLV" and a Response SHOULD be sent over the reverse LSP.
>
> [snip from Section 4.3]
>     If an Out-of-band response is requested and the Address object or the
>     URO is missing, the Query SHOULD be dropped in the case of a
>     unidirectional LSP.  If both these TLVs are missing on a
>     bidirectional LSP, the control code of Response message should set to
>     "Invalid Message" and the response SHOULD be sent over the reverse
>     LSP.
>
> Both snippets are describing the same procedure but there's a conflict with control code value mandated.
>       => "Missing TLV" (TBD) vs. "Invalid Message" (0x1C)
Good catch.

Since we have combined port and address, invalid Msg is probably good 
enough.

> In the second snippet from Section 4.3 above, I believe the condition should be && and not ||.
I don't think so.

Address only was the original mode and although I have doubts about
whether there are deployments we need to support it until it is deprecated.
Thus you might find an address TLV indicating a response over IP is 
required or
a URO indicating a response over UDP/IP is required.

I think we agreed that we needed to support multiple UROs in certain
circumstances however I am wondering whether we need to support
both modes (IP and URO) or the same packet.

> s/and the Address object or the URO is missing/and the Address object and the URO are missing/
Please see above. Since we combined address and port in the URO
only one TLV needs to be present
> [snip from Section 5]
>     Nothing in this document precludes the use of a configured UDP/IP
>     return path in a deployment in which configuration is preferred to
>     signalling.  In these circumstances the URO MAY be omitted from the
>     MPLS-PLDM messages.
>
> I'd like to propose a slightly different text, because such configuration may be to setup a default target for the response, in which case URO will be more preferred.
>
> [suggested text]
>     Nothing in this document precludes the use of a configured UDP/IP
>     return path that is more preferred than the target specified in
>     received UROs.  In these circumstances, the UROs in received MPLS-PM
>     Query MAY be ignored.  Alternatively use of a configured UDP/IP
>     return path as a default target may be specified (i.e. less preferred
>     than UROs).  In these circumstances, the absence of the UROs in
>     received MPLS-PM Query SHOULD NOT be treated as an error.
That works for me.

I will fix the nits as needs

Thanks for the review

Stewart


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" <stbryant@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Hi Stewart,

Clipping out ones with closure.
Please see below.

[...]
> > [snip from Section 4]
> >     If the URO is expected but is not present in Query message and an
> >     MPLS-PLDM Response is requested out-of-band, the Query message
> MUST
> >     NOT be processed further.  If received over a bidirectional LSP, th=
e
> >     control code of the Response message MUST be set to "Error - Missin=
g
> >     TLV" and a Response SHOULD be sent over the reverse LSP.
> >
> > [snip from Section 4.3]
> >     If an Out-of-band response is requested and the Address object or t=
he
> >     URO is missing, the Query SHOULD be dropped in the case of a
> >     unidirectional LSP.  If both these TLVs are missing on a
> >     bidirectional LSP, the control code of Response message should set =
to
> >     "Invalid Message" and the response SHOULD be sent over the reverse
> >     LSP.
[...]
> > In the second snippet from Section 4.3 above, I believe the condition
> should be && and not ||.
> I don't think so.
>=20
> Address only was the original mode and although I have doubts about
> whether there are deployments we need to support it until it is deprecate=
d.
> Thus you might find an address TLV indicating a response over IP is requi=
red
> or a URO indicating a response over UDP/IP is required.
>=20
> I think we agreed that we needed to support multiple UROs in certain
> circumstances however I am wondering whether we need to support both
> modes (IP and URO) or the same packet.
[...]

I see. I got the impression from the document that having both is not disal=
lowed, thus it's an error if neither are included in the Query (i.e. &&). B=
ut you are right, there's no point in keeping around (IP) since (URO) is a =
superset. Technically I do not see any issue if this document deprecated (I=
P). Responder implementations will likely need to support both for a while,=
 thus perhaps having a text around the transition period (i.e. what happens=
 when both (IP) and (URO) are in the Query) somewhere in the document (ex: =
Appendix?) may be beneficial.

Either way, texts in both snippets should be updated.

Thanks!

-Nobo


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "<spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [sfc] [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Hi Ron,

I would be very very carefull to place matadata inband (ie embed it in
customer data packets) of data plane.

Few reasons for consideration:

- Adding anything over hundred bytes may become pretty overwhelming for
small size customer packets

- Adding anything over already maxed size packet may cause MTU issues and
fragmentation (which in many cases is not possible in the middle of the
network). Keep in mind also encrypted data.

- Anything which is variable length in the data plane and which is opaque
to the data plane causes additional data plane requirements which a lot of
hardware may have a hard time to deal with

- Inband transport provides no option to pre-populate the state at the
backup devices / backup paths where no active traffic is traversing before
any network event affecting primary path

- A lot of appliances may not be able to be transparent to opaque variable
length metadata resulting in metadata information loss.

For all of the above reasons (and I am sure many more not listed above) I
would keep customer data packets alone and when needed limit only insertion
of a pointer to metadata context learned out-of-band. (Out-of-band is a bit
misleading term here as metadata can happily travel via the same set of
links as customer data. What it really means is
out-of-customer-data-packets).

Best regards,
R.



On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.co=
m
> wrote:

>  Robert,
>
>
>
> Inband is one way -- it simplifies things at the cost of packet growth.
> Out-of-band (i.e., signaling) is another way =E2=80=93 it adds complexity=
 but
> doesn=E2=80=99t grow the data plane packets.   Congruent out-of-band is a=
 variation
> on out-of-band that may partially reduce out-of-band complexity.    I thi=
nk
> many opinions on the thread have been that all are in scope,
> architecturally.    Draft-zhang-sfc-sch (I am a co-author), for example,
> defines inband metadata explicitly, but states in text that out-of-band i=
s
> possible, too.    I=E2=80=99m sure this will be a topic of discussion whe=
n we start
> discussing control plane requirements.
>
>
>
>    Ron
>
>
>
> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2014 3:27 AM
> *To:* Xuxiaohu; sfc@ietf.org
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; <spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS
> packet
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Is the idea of using data plane to carry complete metadata is "the way" o=
r
> "a way" of approaching the problem ? Has this been already discussed ?
>
>
>
> I would rather consider to carry metadata in control plane and only attac=
h
> a reference_id (and only when it is needed) to the data plane.
>
>
>
> Rgs,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I
> just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
> proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
>
> "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
>
>    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
>    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
>    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
>    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
>    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
>    followed by a non-service payload.
>
>    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
>    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
>    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
>    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
>    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
>    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
>    interpreted using the semantics defined in
>    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
>    through the G-ACh channel."
>
> However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above
> still conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
>
> "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
>    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
>    appear more than once in the label stack."
>
> I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above
> draft would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I
> wonder whether it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introduci=
ng
> a Protocol Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label
> stack. With such PT field, any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadat=
a
> header or NSH) can be easily identified.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
>

--90e6ba6e87a6e7528504fe78c708
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Hi Ron,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:=
small">
I would be very very carefull to place matadata inband (ie embed it in cust=
omer data packets) of data plane.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size=
:small">
Few reasons for consideration:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">-=
 Adding anything over hundred bytes may become pretty overwhelming for smal=
l size customer packets</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">- Adding anything over already maxed =
size packet may cause MTU issues and fragmentation (which in many cases is =
not possible in the middle of the network). Keep in mind also encrypted dat=
a.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">- Anything which is variable length i=
n the data plane and which is opaque to the data plane causes additional da=
ta plane requirements which a lot of hardware may have a hard time to deal =
with</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">- Inband transport provides no option=
 to pre-populate the state at the backup devices / backup paths where no ac=
tive traffic is traversing before any network event affecting primary path<=
/div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">- A lot of appliances may not be able=
 to be transparent to opaque variable length metadata resulting in metadata=
 information loss.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">For all of the above reasons (and I a=
m sure many more not listed above) I would keep customer data packets alone=
 and when needed limit only insertion of a pointer to metadata context lear=
ned out-of-band. (Out-of-band is a bit misleading term here as metadata can=
 happily travel via the same set of links as customer data. What it really =
means is out-of-customer-data-packets).=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">Best regards,</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">
R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monos=
pace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Ron Parker <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com" target=
=3D"_blank">Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Robert,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Inband is one way -- it s=
implifies things at the cost of packet growth.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Out-of-band (i.e=
., signaling) is another way =E2=80=93 it adds complexity but doesn=E2=80=
=99t grow
 the data plane packets.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Congruent out-of-band is a variation o=
n out-of-band that may partially reduce out-of-band complexity.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 I think many opinions on the thread have been that all are in scope,=
 architecturally.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Draft-zhang-sfc-sch (I am a co-author),
 for example, defines inband metadata explicitly, but states in text that o=
ut-of-band is possible, too.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sure this will b=
e a topic of discussion when we start discussing control plane requirements=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ron<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces=
@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk</span></p><div class=3D""><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 18, 2014 3:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@=
ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org=
</a>; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
</div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] [spring] How to carry metadata/context in a=
n MPLS packet<u></u><u></u><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
All,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Is the idea of using data plane to carry complete metadata is &quot;the way=
&quot; or &quot;a way&quot; of approaching the problem ? Has this been alre=
ady discussed ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
I would rather consider to carry metadata in control plane and only attach =
a reference_id (and only when it is needed) to the data plane.=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Rgs,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
R.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I&#39;m now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I =
just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (<a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6</a>)
 proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):<br=
>
<br>
&quot;3. =C2=A0Metadata Channel Header Format<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicat=
ed in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the encapsulation. =C2=A0This document defines that the G-ACh =
Generic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 i=
s<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0utilized for this purpose. =C2=A0The GAL label provides a meth=
od to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identify that a packet contains an &quot;Associated Channel He=
ader (ACH)&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0followed by a non-service payload.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by s=
etting<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the botto=
m label<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b. =C2=A0Furt=
her<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic. =C2=A0This document proposes an extension to allow th=
e first<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the G=
AL, be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interpreted using the semantics defined in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0through the G-ACh channel.&quot;<br>
<br>
However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above stil=
l conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:<br>
<br>
&quot; =C2=A0The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting n=
ormal<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0user-plane packets. =C2=A0Furthermore, when present, the GAL M=
UST NOT<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0appear more than once in the label stack.&quot;<br>
<br>
I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above draf=
t would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether it&#39;s worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a P=
rotocol Type (PT) field immediately
 after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such PT field, any kind of =
future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be easily identified=
.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Xiaohu<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--90e6ba6e87a6e7528504fe78c708--


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 08:32:53 -0400
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Loa,

Sorry for the delay. I am not aware of any IPR beyond that already
disclosed.

Cheers,
Andy


On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> None that I am aware off.
>
> Sam
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> >
> > Working Group,
> >
> > The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs
> > that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make
> > it a working group document.
> >
> > While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
> > poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
> >
> > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
> > lsp-ping?
> >
> > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
> >
> > Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
> >
> > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> > this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> > IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> > received from each author and contributor.
> >
> > If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
> >
> > Thanks, Loa
> > (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--001a11c11e1cd4f0c104fe8b1360
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Loa,<div><br></div><div>Sorry for the delay. I am not awar=
e of any IPR beyond that already disclosed.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers=
,</div><div>Andy</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">

On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Sam Aldrin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">aldrin.ietf@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

None that I am aware off.<br>
<br>
Sam<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@p=
i.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Working Group,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chair=
s<br>
&gt; that the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make=
<br>
&gt; it a working group document.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR=
<br>
&gt; poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-<br>
&gt; lsp-ping?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules<b=
r>
&gt; (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond t=
o<br>
&gt; this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant<=
br>
&gt; IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The =
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been<br>
&gt; received from each author and contributor.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author o=
r<br>
&gt; contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of a=
ny<br>
&gt; IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks, Loa<br>
&gt; (as MPLS WG co-chair)<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">_______________________=
________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c11e1cd4f0c104fe8b1360--


From nobody Mon Jul 21 04:03:41 2014
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:03:29 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: [mpls] Urgent [Re: IETF90 - MPLS - Agenda available - Please send your presentation material]
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Hello,

I have only received 8 sets of slides out of the 19 expected.
Deadline was yesterday 23h59 ...

Please send by them noon today, otherwise I will not upload them.

-m

Le 15/07/2014 14:15, Martin Vigoureux a écrit :
> All,
>
> the agenda is on-line:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/agenda/agenda-90-mpls
>
> Please have a look at it.
>
> Speakers, please start sending me your presentation material, and please
> do so before July the 21st (Monday), local time.
>
> Thank you
>
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>


From nobody Mon Jul 21 05:51:25 2014
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From: Capello Alessandro <alessandro.capello@telecomitalia.it>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Hi,

I support the adoption of this draft as a WG document.

Regards,
Alessandro


-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: luned=EC 7 luglio 2014 15.59
To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oa=
m-udp-return an mpls working group document

Working Group,


The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us
that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus
to make it a working group document.

This mail starts a two week adoption poll.

We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
adoption poll.

There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.

Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
(mpls@ietf.org)

This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!

/Loa
for the mpls wg co-chairs

--


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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From nobody Mon Jul 21 07:47:06 2014
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From: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Adding the MPLS wg to this discussion.

[Apologies for the spam.]

r.

On 21 Jul 2014, at 10:38, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:

> Hi SPRING, draft-kini=85 authors,
>=20
> I have a few comments on the discussion within this draft =97 and a =
quick question
> on the intention around the document.
>=20
> - I feel that it would be useful to provide some clarification as to =
where we
>  expect entropy to be required for load-sharing in the draft. The =
current
>  wording (to me) could be read to say that where Adj-SID is used, then =
there
>  is no requirement to consider placement for EL since there will be no
>  load-balancing. However, since Adj-SID can apply to a bundle (3.5.1 =
in
>  draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-04), or the underlying =
transport for an
>  IGP adjacency can be multi-path (e.g., an aggregated Ethernet link)
>  this is not true unless a head-end PE can guarantee that a particular
>  adjacency is made up of a transport that has only 1 path (i.e., =
explicitly
>  requires no load-balancing). I'm not sure how the iLER would actually =
determine
>  this, short of the definition of new per-adjacency advertisement =
capabilities.
>  Even if it were able to, then it seems the result is very likely to =
be that an
>  approach that requires per-hop entropy labels to be injected is going =
to
>  guarantee label stack depth >=3D 3*[number of path SIDs].
>=20
>  I think that the above means that the current draft under-estimates =
the depth
>  of the stack when considering an EL per tunnel (=A73.2), which might =
amplify
>  some of the concerns raised for this option.=20
>=20
> - =A73.4 - I am not clear how we would really implement this option. =
If we learn
>  midpoint capabilities, and then tune our placement of the EL based on =
these,
>  then it seems like the only viable approach is really to consider =
_all_
>  midpoints, and tune the placement according to the "shallowest" =
midpoint in
>  the network. This is because, whilst we might expect that there is =
routing via
>  some particular path, this might change if there is ECMP between =
mid-points
>  nodes where some paths have different capabilities than others, and =
equally
>  might change whilst re-routing occurs.
>=20
>  In terms of discovery of the capabilities of a mid-point -- do we =
need to
>  consider how, in a multi-area network, we discover the capabilities =
of a
>  mid-point which might not have information about it leaked between =
areas?
>=20
> - Finally, it'd be good to determine what the intention of the authors =
for this
>  document is. Do we expect that we make a recommendation as to what =
equipment
>  vendors who are going to support SR-MPLS should optimise for? At the =
moment,
>  the document is good at classifying the different approaches that =
_could_ be=20
>  taken, but potentially requires an operator/vendor to consider =
optimisation
>  for both a) reading very deep into the stack when acting as an LSR, =
b) pushing
>  very deep stacks when acting as iLER, c) potentially implementing =
more complex
>  swap() operations, whereby some reshuffling of the EL is required.=20
>=20
>  My feeling is that it would be very useful for this document to be =
able to
>  make a clear recommendation as to which of these approaches should be
>  optimised for, and hence we should debate their technical efficacy. =
It'd be
>  good to understand whether the authors are intending to do this, or =
rather
>  classify the approaches.
>=20
> Cheers,
> r.
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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Subject: [mpls] MPLS SDN World, NFV & SDN Summit: CFP Deadline extended
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The MPLS SDN World Congress, together with the collocated NFV & SDN Summit,
will take place in Paris next 17 to 20 March, 2015.
The two events will share a common first day and will conclude with a panel
discussion made up of key players (manufacturers and operators) from these
technologies.
The proposals submission deadline has been extended to August 15.
MPLS SDN World agenda: Spring, SDN controller, resilience, SDN migration
case studies
http://www.uppersideconferences.com/mplssdnworld2015/mplssdn2015cfp.html

NFV & SDN Summit agenda: orchestration, open source initiatives, service
chaining, use cases

http://www.uppersideconferences.com/nfvandsdnsummit2015/nfvandsdnsummit2015c
fp.html
 
 

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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"HTML Keyboard"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"HTML Preformatted"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"HTML Sample"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"HTML Typewriter"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"HTML Variable"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Normal Table"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"annotation subject"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"No List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Outline List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Outline List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Outline List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Simple 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Simple 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Simple 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Classic 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Classic 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Classic 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Classic 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Colorful 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Colorful 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Colorful 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Columns 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Columns 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Columns 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Columns 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Columns 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Grid 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table List 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table 3D effects 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table 3D effects 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table 3D effects 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Contemporary"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Elegant"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Professional"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Subtle 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Subtle 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Web 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Web 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Web 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Balloon Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Table Theme"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Placeholder =
Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"No Spacing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light =
Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List =
1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List =
2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid =
1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid =
2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid =
3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful =
List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful =
Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"34" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"List Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"29" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"30" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Intense Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid =
Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid =
Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading =
2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful =
Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid =
Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"19" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Subtle Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"21" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Intense Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"31" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Subtle Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"32" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Intense Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"33" QFormat=3D"true" =
Name=3D"Book Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"37" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" Name=3D"Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"TOC Heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"41" Name=3D"Plain Table =
1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"42" Name=3D"Plain Table =
2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"43" Name=3D"Plain Table =
3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"44" Name=3D"Plain Table =
4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"45" Name=3D"Plain Table =
5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"40" Name=3D"Grid Table =
Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 =
Light"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 =
Dark"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 =
Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 =
Colorful"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 =
Light Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 =
Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 =
Dark Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 =
Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 =
Colorful Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 =
Light Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 =
Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 =
Dark Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 =
Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 =
Colorful Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"46" Name=3D"Grid Table 1 =
Light Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"47" Name=3D"Grid Table 2 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"48" Name=3D"Grid Table 3 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"49" Name=3D"Grid Table 4 =
Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"50" Name=3D"Grid Table 5 =
Dark Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"51" Name=3D"Grid Table 6 =
Colorful Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"52" Name=3D"Grid Table 7 =
Colorful Accent 3"/>
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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D'tab-interval:35.4pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'>The MPLS SDN World Congress</span></b></span><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'>, together with the <b>collocated NFV &amp; SDN Summit</b>, =
will take place in Paris next 17 to 20 March, 2015.</span></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'>The <b>two events will share a common first day</b> and will =
conclude with a panel discussion made up of key players (manufacturers =
and operators) from these technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-fo=
nt-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>The proposals =
submission deadline has been extended to August 15.</span></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
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class=3Dapple-style-span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'>MPLS SDN World agenda:<b =
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'> Spring, SDN controller, =
resilience, SDN migration case =
studies</b><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US'><a =
href=3D"http://www.uppersideconferences.com/mplssdnworld2015/mplssdn2015c=
fp.html">http://www.uppersideconferences.com/mplssdnworld2015/mplssdn2015=
cfp.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><h2 =
style=3D'line-height:15.0pt;background:white'><strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-fo=
nt-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;font-weight:normal'>NFV &amp; SDN Summit =
agenda: </span></strong><strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-fo=
nt-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>orchestration=
, open source initiatives, service chaining, use =
cases</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-fo=
nt-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></h2><p =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><a =
href=3D"http://www.uppersideconferences.com/nfvandsdnsummit2015/nfvandsdn=
summit2015cfp.html">http://www.uppersideconferences.com/nfvandsdnsummit20=
15/nfvandsdnsummit2015cfp.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01CFA503.EBC8E410--



From nobody Mon Jul 21 07:57:11 2014
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
Thread-Index: AQHPpPG60J2/V/fu6kuL32lhjiOWm5uqFS+AgACHrg0=
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:54 +0000
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Cc: "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Rob,

>  In terms of discovery of the capabilities of a mid-point -- do we need t=
o
>  consider how, in a multi-area network, we discover the capabilities of a
>  mid-point which might not have information about it leaked between areas=
?

Did you mean that when propagating the capabilities TLV/sub-TLV of a given =
node across areas, the information (e.g., IP address) of the originator of =
that capability TLV/sub-TLV is lost?

Best regards,
Xiaohu=


From nobody Mon Jul 21 08:03:12 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Reoptimization of Point-to-Multipoint Traffic Engineering Loosely Routed LSPs
        Authors         : Tarek Saad
                          Rakesh Gandhi
                          Zafar Ali
                          Robert H. Venator
                          Yuji Kamite
	Filename        : draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2014-07-21

Abstract:
   For a Traffic Engineered (TE) point-to-multipoint (P2MP) Label
   Switched Path (LSP), it is preferable in some cases to re-evaluate
   and re-optimize the entire P2MP-TE LSP by re-signaling all its S2L
   sub-LSP(s). Existing mechanisms allow the path re-evaluation and the
   signaling of a the notification of preferred path exists for a single
   S2L sub-LSP only.

   This document defines RSVP-TE signaling extensions to allow an
   ingress Label Switching Router (LSR) of a P2MP-TE LSP to trigger the
   re-evaluation of the entire LSP tree containing one or more S2L sub-
   LSPs whose paths are loose (or abstract) hop expanded, and for a mid-
   point LSR to signal to the ingress LSR that a better tree exists for
   the entire P2MP-TE LSP.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Jul 21 08:05:04 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Xiaohu,

On 21 Jul 2014, at 10:56, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

>> In terms of discovery of the capabilities of a mid-point -- do we =
need to
>> consider how, in a multi-area network, we discover the capabilities =
of a
>> mid-point which might not have information about it leaked between =
areas?
>=20
> Did you mean that when propagating the capabilities TLV/sub-TLV of a =
given node across areas, the information (e.g., IP address) of the =
originator of that capability TLV/sub-TLV is lost?

I was more considering the case that the information is simply not =
propagated into the =93downstream=94 area. There is no clear requirement =
to me that we need propagate capabilities and/or prefix SIDs for =
non-endpoint nodes across area boundaries, and hence we may not have =
visibility of each mid-point on the path.

r.=


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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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From nobody Mon Jul 21 08:21:49 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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On 21 Jul 2014, at 11:13, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

> [Xiaohu] If we need visibility of each mid-point on the path indeed, =
does it mean that the capability of each mid-point should be propagated =
across area boundaries?

This could be one solution. One could observe that if we need to =
propagate mid-point information across area boundaries, then we are =
beginning to reduce any (perceived) benefit of running multiple areas.=20=


Please note, I am not trying to state the need for any solution to this =
issue, just note that there are challenges with such an approach to the =
authors of the draft. If the intention of the draft is to recommend an =
approach to the SPRING+EL issue, then potentially such considerations =
should be taken into account when considering the technical efficacy of =
each of the options described in the document.

Cheers,
r.=20


From nobody Mon Jul 21 08:37:53 2014
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:37:34 +0000
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Content-Description: draft-li-mpls-global-label-framework-02(new).pptx
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	creation-date="Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:37:28 GMT";
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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" <ice@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection
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From nobody Mon Jul 21 10:54:51 2014
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Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-hello-crypto-auth for
publication", resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-extended-admin-group for
publication", resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-psc-updates for
publication", resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements for
publication", set due date to September 2014 from April 2014.

Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection for
publication", set due date to October 2014 from September 2014.

Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mcast for
publication", set due date to November 2014 from August 2014.

Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply for
publication", set due date to November 2014 from August 2014.

URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/


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URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/


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Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label
for publication", set state to active from review, accepting new
milestone.

URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/


From nobody Tue Jul 22 05:50:11 2014
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From: "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Nagendra Kumar Nainar \(naikumar\)" <naikumar@cisco.com>, "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" <draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR  poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
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I'm not aware of any IPR beyond the two that are linked to the mols/documen=
ts page.

George

On Jul 13, 2014, at 3:51 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Folks,
>=20
> I've responses from
>=20
> Nobo, Sam, and Carlos.
>=20
> Need responses from
>=20
> George, Andy and Nagendara
>=20
> Please note that Nagendra is listed as contributing author and need
> to respond.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> On 2014-07-12 23:54, Nobo Akiya (nobo) wrote:
>> Hi Loa,
>>=20
>> I am not aware of any other IPRs to this document besides IPRs # 2221 an=
d # 2305.
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>>=20
>> -Nobo
>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 10:02 AM
>>> To: mpls@ietf.org
>>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-
>>> ping@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux
>>> Subject: IPR poll on draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping
>>>=20
>>> Working Group,
>>>=20
>>> The authors of draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping has told the wg chairs=
 that
>>> the draft is ready to be polled to see uf we have support to make it a
>>> working group document.
>>>=20
>>> While addressing the last procedures details we will start the the IPR
>>> poll.This mail starts that IPR poll.
>>>=20
>>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-=
ping?
>>>=20
>>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (s=
ee RFCs
>>> 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>>=20
>>> Currently there are two IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>>=20
>>> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to=
 this
>>> email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *=
The
>>> response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The document wi=
ll
>>> not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from e=
ach
>>> author and contributor.
>>>=20
>>> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>>> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of an=
y IPR
>>> that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks, Loa
>>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Tue Jul 22 05:56:57 2014
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>, <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:56:50 +0100
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Subject: [mpls] Progressing foo-over-UDP
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In London I took an action to write up suggested text for how to handle the
concerns of congestion and checksum in UDP-over-foo.

I think we had some agreement of what was needed (look at the minutes of TSVWG -
or was it TSV Area? - from London).

Of course, I have let you all down. I have about 75% of the necessary text for
MPLS-over-UDP (as a concrete example), but I am not complete. You don't need to
know my excuses.

Attached below (so you can laugh at me) is the text I have so far. it is work in
progress, but since I am currently getting in the way, some of you might want to
take the pen (if no-one wants to, I will try to continue and complete this).

Cheers,
Adrian

==================

x.  Applicability and Deployment of MPLS-in-UDP

   It is helpful to categorise the type of networks in which this
   solution might be deployed.  That is, it is useful to look at the
   type of network over which the UDP tunnel might run, and the type of
   network that may be running MPLS.  An understanding of these 
   categories will lead to the realization that deploying MPLS-in-UDP in
   some environments is entirely safe, in other scenarios might cause 
   issues to the networks involved but is a local choice for the 
   operators of those networks, while in other situations the deployment
   might be significantly harmful to other services or traffic outside
   the responsibility of the operator deploying MPLS-in-UDP.

   In broad terms these deployment categories can be listed as follows:

   - Tunneling across the Internet
   - Tunneling over a provider network in a customer/provider
     relationship
   - Tunneling in a client/server relationship owned by a single
     operator
   - Tunneling within a "flat" network

   The remainder of this section describes the deployment of MPLS-in-UDP
   in these networks, and gives warnings, advice, and caveats
   appropriate to those scenarios with special reference to congestion
   avoidance and the use of checksums.  The use made of MPLS-in-UDP by
   applications must be cognisant of the underlying network deployment.
   However, it needs to be understood that an end-point application is
   generally unaware of the services or connectivity over which it is
   sending data.  That is, an end-point application is sending IP data
   possibly using TCP or UDP, and that data is encapsulated in MPLS
   somewhere within the network, and then those MPLS packets are
   themselves encapsulated in UDP as described in this document.  That
   means that the decision points for the concerns and choices described
   in the sections that follow are at the point of encapsulation of MPLS
   in UDP, and at the time of deployment of the encapsulation function.
   While there are possibilities to apply back-pressure to applications,
   when there is tunneling within tunnels and a significant amount of
   multiplexing of flows within flows (as is the case with MPLS-in-UDP)
   these techniques are hard to apply and may have less immediate
   effect.

   Implementers are advised to note that widely deployable
   implementations have to provide the function set that is needed in
   each of the deployment scenarios discussed below.  That is, those
   implementations that only provide a subset of the functionality are
   not suitable for deployment in the full set of scenarios.

   The text in these sections is not intended to be, and should not be
   taken as, broader guidance for the issues of tunneling different
   protocols over UDP.

x.1.  Congestion Considerations

   End-to-end traffic flows may be multiplexed into MPLS LSPs, and those
   LSPs may be multiplexed into a single UDP tunnel.  These UDP tunnels
   appear as single flows in the core IP network over which the tunnel
   flows.  Thus, any congestion issues related to the core network and 
   caused by end-to-end traffic flows may be hard to report back to the
   head ends of the flows causing the congestion.

   The impact of congestion must be considered both in terms of the
   effect on the rest of the network of a UDP tunnel that is consuming
   excessive capacity, and in terms of the effect on the flows using the
   UDP tunnels in particular if packets are queued (causing delay or 
   jitter) or dropped.

   Various mechanisms exist to propagate congestion information to the
   source of flows either when congestion has occurred or when it is
   perceived to be imminent.  It should be noted that in the case of a
   tunnel (such as a UDP tunnel), the source of a flow is the head end
   of the tunnel.  That is, any congestion notification from the core
   network will be propagated to the head end of the tunnel, not to the
   original source of the traffic.  

   The head end of a UDP tunnel can take a number of actions when it is
   informed about congestion.  No comment is made here about which
   action is best or even appropriate, but section x.3 discusses these
   actions in the context of the different deployment scenarios.

   - Do nothing assuming that the burden of congestion will be carried 
     by other flows, or that the fact of congestion on the UDP tunnel
     will cause back-pressure in the payload flows.

   - Pass on the congestion information to the payload flows.  However,
     in this instance the payload of the UDP tunnel is MPLS flows, and
     the mechanisms for congestion notification in MPLS flows are
     lacking.

   - Throttle the data being placed onto the UDP tunnel by queuing or
     dropping packets from the payload flows.

   - Change the flows that are in a tunnel by putting some of them in a
     different tunnel.  This may have no effect on the congestion, but
     in some networks with ECMP may result in an improvement.

   - Completely fail one or more flows carried in the tunnel, or even
     fail the entire tunnel.  This mechanism is sometimes known as
     "circuit breaker".

x.2.  UDP Checksum Considerations

is checksum an issue
what can be done about it

- use it or not

x.3.  Deployment Scenarios

x.3.1.  MPLS-in-UDP over the Public Internet
 

   - Tunneling across the Internet
   The use of MPLS-in-UDP over the public Internet is NOT RECOMMENDED.

x.3.2. MPLS-in-UDP in Managed Networks

   - Tunneling over a provider network in a customer/provider
     relationship
   - Tunneling in a client/server relationship owned by a single
     operator

x.3.3. MPLS-in-UDP in Private Networks

   - Tunneling in a client/server relationship owned by a single
     operator
   - Tunneling within a "flat" network


From nobody Tue Jul 22 05:59:48 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-07.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Requirements for MPLS-TP Shared Mesh Protection
        Authors         : Yaacov Weingarten
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Ping Pan
                          Jeong-dong Ryoo
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-07.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2014-07-22

Abstract:
   This document presents the basic network objectives for the behavior
   of shared mesh protection (SMP) which are not based on control plane
   support. This is an expansion of the basic requirements presented in
   RFC 5654 "Requirements for the Transport Profile of MPLS" and RFC
   6372 "MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) Survivability Framework". This
   document provides requirements for any mechanism that would be used
   to implement SMP for MPLS-TP data paths, in networks that delegate
   protection switch coordination to the data  plane.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Tue Jul 22 06:33:02 2014
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From nobody Tue Jul 22 07:22:58 2014
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To: "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Stephane,

On 21 Jul 2014, at 22:52, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> =
<stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>=20
> Many thanks to raise this important subject back on the table.
> Entropy label in SPRING is mainly a matter of what are the current =
capabilities of our favorite vendor's current HW ... Unfortunately, I =
think we are touching something quite "secret"  and vendors would not =
share their issues publicly :)

There are two things that we need to achieve w.r.t SR/MPLS and EL from =
my perspective:

1) How do we exploit EL with *today=92s* hardware such that SR LSPs can =
be efficiently load shared?
2) Going forward, which of the approaches that this draft identifies for =
dealing with deep label stacks produced by SR/MPLS should we optimise =
for?

So, yes, I agree that there=92s something around current capabilities =
that we need to figure out =97 but equally, I=92d like to visit question =
(2), such that we can see whether the WG thinks that it is possible that =
we can reach a recommendation and hence future hardware revisions can =
potentially focus on optimising for one particular SR/MPLS + EL =
approach.=20

> I think some options may also introduce some "HW capability" issues :
> - reusable EL and EL top of the stack  : need multiple MPLS operation =
, so it may require forwarding feedback loops on some HWs reducing the =
forwarding capacity
>=20
> Personally, I don't like (hate :) ), the multiple EL/ELI (at each =
tunnel level or at specific point of insertion) because it would again =
reduce the available MTU for the customer jumbo frames.

ACK =97 this is one of the reasons that I would like to understand the =
author=92s intentions on this draft. At the moment, the draft is a =
taxonomy of the approaches, but rather stops short of making any =
recommendations. It sounds like you=92d be supportive of asking the =
authors to extend this draft to making a recommendation? :-)

Cheers,
r.


From nobody Tue Jul 22 07:27:41 2014
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
Thread-Index: AQHPpPGzFOMOyOFpYEWM2i7SQsHvQpurYA2ggAClVgCAACK8cA==
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:27:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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> It sounds like you'd be supportive of asking the authors to extend this d=
raft to making a recommendation? :-)

Completely right :)


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:23
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
Cc: spring@ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org; m=
pls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label

Hi Stephane,

On 21 Jul 2014, at 22:52, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> <stephane.litkows=
ki@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>=20
> Many thanks to raise this important subject back on the table.
> Entropy label in SPRING is mainly a matter of what are the current capabi=
lities of our favorite vendor's current HW ... Unfortunately, I think we ar=
e touching something quite "secret"  and vendors would not share their issu=
es publicly :)

There are two things that we need to achieve w.r.t SR/MPLS and EL from my p=
erspective:

1) How do we exploit EL with *today's* hardware such that SR LSPs can be ef=
ficiently load shared?
2) Going forward, which of the approaches that this draft identifies for de=
aling with deep label stacks produced by SR/MPLS should we optimise for?

So, yes, I agree that there's something around current capabilities that we=
 need to figure out - but equally, I'd like to visit question (2), such tha=
t we can see whether the WG thinks that it is possible that we can reach a =
recommendation and hence future hardware revisions can potentially focus on=
 optimising for one particular SR/MPLS + EL approach.=20

> I think some options may also introduce some "HW capability" issues :
> - reusable EL and EL top of the stack  : need multiple MPLS operation , s=
o it may require forwarding feedback loops on some HWs reducing the forward=
ing capacity
>=20
> Personally, I don't like (hate :) ), the multiple EL/ELI (at each tunnel =
level or at specific point of insertion) because it would again reduce the =
available MTU for the customer jumbo frames.

ACK - this is one of the reasons that I would like to understand the author=
's intentions on this draft. At the moment, the draft is a taxonomy of the =
approaches, but rather stops short of making any recommendations. It sounds=
 like you'd be supportive of asking the authors to extend this draft to mak=
ing a recommendation? :-)

Cheers,
r.


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From: Ravi Singh <ravis@juniper.net>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
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Hi Nobo
Please see inline for [<RS>].

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 7:24 PM
> To: Ravi Singh; draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
>=20
> Hi Ravi, et al,
>=20
> [comment 1]
> The document seems to be describing two different topics.
> 1. Data plane behavior regarding ELI/EL with stitched and/or hierarchical=
 LSPs.
> 2. How to extend EL usage wider than actual capabilities of involved LSRs=
.
>=20
> I agree that the two topics are rather related, but I find (1) to be a ve=
ry useful
> information to vendors and (2) to be an optimization.
> Is there any particular reason why the two topics cannot be broken up int=
o two
> separate documents? That may result in much clearer document

[<RS>] =09
I tend to think that 2 (being use-cases) is the reason that 1 is even worth=
 being discussed.
That was the intent of having a single document for those.=20
>=20
> [comment 2]
> From what I understand of the data plane behaviors, they boil down to
> following 4 things.
>=20
> Behavior for an ingress LSR programmed to push [transport label(s), ELI, =
EL]:
> a. The LSR SHOULD NOT push [ELI, EL] if the label stack already contain [=
ELI,
> EL], and SHOULD only push [transport label(s)].
> b. If the LSR popping N transport labels includes popping of [ELI, EL], t=
he LSR
> MAY reuse the popped [EL] value when needing to push [ELI, EL].
> c. If the LSR popping N transport labels expose [ELI, EL] as top labels, =
the LSR
> MAY preserve the exposed [ELI, EL] in the label stack and only push [tran=
sport
> label(s)].
>=20
> Behavior for an ingress LSR of ELC-not-capable LSP:
> d. The LSR MUST ensure [ELI, EL] do not immediately follow label(s) pushe=
d or
> swapped by the LSR.
>=20
> Note, in the document, (a) is described as a procedure if [ELI, EL] are f=
ound
> under the top label only, but I don't think we need to make such restrict=
ion.

[<RS>] I did not intend for this restriction to be there.=20
Could you point to the specific language that makes you infer the above?

> Section 4.3. does is likely the reason why you restricted this to the top=
 label
> only, but I prefer that this rule be kept simple and not restricted.  If =
you really
> want to ensure that [ELI, EL] appears near the top, then additional rule =
will do
> the job.
>=20
> a-variant: The LSR SHOULD NOT push [ELI, EL] if the label stack already c=
ontain
> [ELI, EL], and SHOULD only push [transport label(s)]. The LSR MAY still p=
ush
> [transport label(s), ELI, EL] if [ELI, EL] found is deep in the label sta=
ck.
>=20
> Do above (a-d), more or less, align with data plane rules you have in min=
d?
>=20

[<RS>]  a & c do and are already there in the doc.=20
I do not intend for b/d to be included in the doc.=20
Could you point to specific reasons for considering b/d?

>=20
> [comment 3 (nitpick)]
>=20
> [snip from draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls-02]
>=20
> 3. Key attributes of the entropy label solution: Summary from [EL-RFC] [.=
..]
>      - Transport-label-POPing router POPs (ELI+EL) PHR/egress of the
>        LSP is responsible for POPing off the (ELI+EL) after it has
>        been exposed as the top label on the packet due to POPing the
>        transport label. The removal of the (ELI+EL) is done either
>        when the ELI is the top label; or when the ELI is next label
>        below the top label being POPed.
>=20
> It's a bit of a nitpick, but above is probably not an accurate reflection=
 of
> RFC6790 regarding Penultimate Hop LSR behavior, as RFC6790 states:
>=20
> [snip from RFC6790]
>=20
> 4.4.  Penultimate Hop LSR
>=20
>    No change is needed at penultimate hop LSRs.  However, a PHP LSR that
>    recognizes the ELI MAY choose to pop the ELI and following label
>    (which should be an entropy label) in addition to popping the tunnel
>    label, provided that doing so doesn't diminish its ability to load
>    balance on the next hop.

[<RS>]  I don't see the above two blocks to be inconsistent.
Could you be more specific?
Thanks
Ravi


> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ravi Singh [mailto:ravis@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:21 PM
> > To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-
> > mpls@tools.ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: Comments on draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
> >
> > Hi Nobo
> > We have a new version of this draft:
> > 	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-
> > mpls-02
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > > Of Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:23 AM
> > > To: draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls@tools.ietf.org
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [mpls] Comments on
> > > draft-ravisingh-mpls-el-for-seamless-mpls
> > >
> > > Hi Ravi, Yimin,
> > >
> > > I have couple of comments.
> > >
> > > 1. Stitched LSP - Proposed really offers optimization in stitched
> > > scenario.
> > >
> > > a. Allows EL usage for even wider than just EL capable segments.
> > > b. Potentially speeds data traversal over stitched LSP as number of
> > > times ELI/EL popped/pushed are reduced.
> > >
> > > Document sort of eludes to this, but I think it'll be beneficial to
> > > state that things will work as is (RFC6790), but proposal can be
> > > used as optimization.
> >
> > The optimization aspect has been called out in the latest version.
> >
> >
> > > 2. Hierarchical LSP
> > >
> > > >   B. Preventing multiple (ELI+EL) pairs underneath a given forwardi=
ng
> > > >       label in the stack:
> > >
> > > I highly support above statement. Having multiple ELs in the stack
> > > will, yet again, cause more changes required in LSP traceroute wrt
> > > multipath information handling, and requires even more complex
> > > computation by initiator to traverse ECMP paths.
> >
> > Great that we are in agreement.
> > Ravi
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Nobo
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > >


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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "Rob Shakir" <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:51:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "Rob Shakir" <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:05:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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From nobody Tue Jul 22 08:10:25 2014
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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:09:49 -0400
From: Spencer Dawkins <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [tsvwg] Progressing foo-over-UDP
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On 07/22/2014 08:56 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> In London I took an action to write up suggested text for how to handle the
> concerns of congestion and checksum in UDP-over-foo.
>
> I think we had some agreement of what was needed (look at the minutes of TSVWG -
> or was it TSV Area? - from London).
>
> Of course, I have let you all down. I have about 75% of the necessary text for
> MPLS-over-UDP (as a concrete example), but I am not complete. You don't need to
> know my excuses.
>
> Attached below (so you can laugh at me) is the text I have so far. it is work in
> progress, but since I am currently getting in the way, some of you might want to
> take the pen (if no-one wants to, I will try to continue and complete this).

Adrian, thank you for sending this.

It's important (as we gather what seems to be an inexhaustible supply of 
foos to encapsulate with UDP), and David and Gorry were able to point to 
your e-mail during TSVWG this morning.

Spencer

> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
> ==================
>
> x.  Applicability and Deployment of MPLS-in-UDP
>
>     It is helpful to categorise the type of networks in which this
>     solution might be deployed.  That is, it is useful to look at the
>     type of network over which the UDP tunnel might run, and the type of
>     network that may be running MPLS.  An understanding of these
>     categories will lead to the realization that deploying MPLS-in-UDP in
>     some environments is entirely safe, in other scenarios might cause
>     issues to the networks involved but is a local choice for the
>     operators of those networks, while in other situations the deployment
>     might be significantly harmful to other services or traffic outside
>     the responsibility of the operator deploying MPLS-in-UDP.
>
>     In broad terms these deployment categories can be listed as follows:
>
>     - Tunneling across the Internet
>     - Tunneling over a provider network in a customer/provider
>       relationship
>     - Tunneling in a client/server relationship owned by a single
>       operator
>     - Tunneling within a "flat" network
>
>     The remainder of this section describes the deployment of MPLS-in-UDP
>     in these networks, and gives warnings, advice, and caveats
>     appropriate to those scenarios with special reference to congestion
>     avoidance and the use of checksums.  The use made of MPLS-in-UDP by
>     applications must be cognisant of the underlying network deployment.
>     However, it needs to be understood that an end-point application is
>     generally unaware of the services or connectivity over which it is
>     sending data.  That is, an end-point application is sending IP data
>     possibly using TCP or UDP, and that data is encapsulated in MPLS
>     somewhere within the network, and then those MPLS packets are
>     themselves encapsulated in UDP as described in this document.  That
>     means that the decision points for the concerns and choices described
>     in the sections that follow are at the point of encapsulation of MPLS
>     in UDP, and at the time of deployment of the encapsulation function.
>     While there are possibilities to apply back-pressure to applications,
>     when there is tunneling within tunnels and a significant amount of
>     multiplexing of flows within flows (as is the case with MPLS-in-UDP)
>     these techniques are hard to apply and may have less immediate
>     effect.
>
>     Implementers are advised to note that widely deployable
>     implementations have to provide the function set that is needed in
>     each of the deployment scenarios discussed below.  That is, those
>     implementations that only provide a subset of the functionality are
>     not suitable for deployment in the full set of scenarios.
>
>     The text in these sections is not intended to be, and should not be
>     taken as, broader guidance for the issues of tunneling different
>     protocols over UDP.
>
> x.1.  Congestion Considerations
>
>     End-to-end traffic flows may be multiplexed into MPLS LSPs, and those
>     LSPs may be multiplexed into a single UDP tunnel.  These UDP tunnels
>     appear as single flows in the core IP network over which the tunnel
>     flows.  Thus, any congestion issues related to the core network and
>     caused by end-to-end traffic flows may be hard to report back to the
>     head ends of the flows causing the congestion.
>
>     The impact of congestion must be considered both in terms of the
>     effect on the rest of the network of a UDP tunnel that is consuming
>     excessive capacity, and in terms of the effect on the flows using the
>     UDP tunnels in particular if packets are queued (causing delay or
>     jitter) or dropped.
>
>     Various mechanisms exist to propagate congestion information to the
>     source of flows either when congestion has occurred or when it is
>     perceived to be imminent.  It should be noted that in the case of a
>     tunnel (such as a UDP tunnel), the source of a flow is the head end
>     of the tunnel.  That is, any congestion notification from the core
>     network will be propagated to the head end of the tunnel, not to the
>     original source of the traffic.
>
>     The head end of a UDP tunnel can take a number of actions when it is
>     informed about congestion.  No comment is made here about which
>     action is best or even appropriate, but section x.3 discusses these
>     actions in the context of the different deployment scenarios.
>
>     - Do nothing assuming that the burden of congestion will be carried
>       by other flows, or that the fact of congestion on the UDP tunnel
>       will cause back-pressure in the payload flows.
>
>     - Pass on the congestion information to the payload flows.  However,
>       in this instance the payload of the UDP tunnel is MPLS flows, and
>       the mechanisms for congestion notification in MPLS flows are
>       lacking.
>
>     - Throttle the data being placed onto the UDP tunnel by queuing or
>       dropping packets from the payload flows.
>
>     - Change the flows that are in a tunnel by putting some of them in a
>       different tunnel.  This may have no effect on the congestion, but
>       in some networks with ECMP may result in an improvement.
>
>     - Completely fail one or more flows carried in the tunnel, or even
>       fail the entire tunnel.  This mechanism is sometimes known as
>       "circuit breaker".
>
> x.2.  UDP Checksum Considerations
>
> is checksum an issue
> what can be done about it
>
> - use it or not
>
> x.3.  Deployment Scenarios
>
> x.3.1.  MPLS-in-UDP over the Public Internet
>   
>
>     - Tunneling across the Internet
>     The use of MPLS-in-UDP over the public Internet is NOT RECOMMENDED.
>
> x.3.2. MPLS-in-UDP in Managed Networks
>
>     - Tunneling over a provider network in a customer/provider
>       relationship
>     - Tunneling in a client/server relationship owned by a single
>       operator
>
> x.3.3. MPLS-in-UDP in Private Networks
>
>     - Tunneling in a client/server relationship owned by a single
>       operator
>     - Tunneling within a "flat" network
>


From nobody Tue Jul 22 08:20:17 2014
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To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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On 22 Jul 2014, at 11:05, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

> It makes no sense of making that compromise, IMHO. It seems that the =
most feasible way is to allow operators themselves to make the choice =
among these options according to their network conditions.

Such a recommendation does not have to say that this is the ONLY =
solution that can be used. However, it is very likely that a number of =
operators have a common set of limitations (given that we know there are =
commonalities in deployed h/w). IMVHO, the thing that we should avoid is =
that e.g., Stephane asks to support solution 1, and I ask for support =
for solution 2 =A1=AA such that (as a community) we end up needing to =
support 1 && 2, when maybe we could have reached some comment =
recommendation such that there was only need for support for 1 || 2.

Let=A1=AFs wait and hear from the authors of the draft whether they =
intend to put forward some recommendation. If they do not, and rather it =
should be an operator=A1=AFs choice, perhaps then the numerous operators =
that are involved in the SR/MPLS can instead try and make such a =
recommendation if we see that there is value in it. However, as Stephane =
pointed out, this is not a decision that can be made in isolation from =
those that build h/w.

r.=


From nobody Tue Jul 22 08:28:08 2014
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
Thread-Index: AQHPpPGzFOMOyOFpYEWM2i7SQsHvQpurYA2ggAClVgCAACK8cP//4dUAgAAk5RD//+JjAIAAJ4dA
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:27:59 +0000
Message-ID: <32399_1406042880_53CE8300_32399_4850_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9204426C@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
References: <5E87F378-9EE4-44BF-8001-E87A1B7BB169@rob.sh> <25011_1405997557_53CDD1F5_25011_16883_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92043E06@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <10DD5659-8B99-42A4-9B1D-18439CF0C832@rob.sh>, <26290_1406039248_53CE74D0_26290_10984_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92044175@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08295FC3@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>, <26288_1406040700_53CE7A7C_26288_2992_3_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920441CB@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08296047@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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All,

Is the idea of using data plane to carry complete metadata is "the way" or
"a way" of approaching the problem ? Has this been already discussed ?

I would rather consider to carry metadata in control plane and only attach
a reference_id (and only when it is needed) to the data plane.

Rgs,
R.





On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I
> just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
> proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
>
> "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
>
>    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
>    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
>    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
>    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
>    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
>    followed by a non-service payload.
>
>    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
>    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
>    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
>    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
>    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
>    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
>    interpreted using the semantics defined in
>    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
>    through the G-ACh channel."
>
> However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above
> still conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
>
> "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
>    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
>    appear more than once in the label stack."
>
> I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above
> draft would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I
> wonder whether it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing
> a Protocol Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label
> stack. With such PT field, any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata
> header or NSH) can be easily identified.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

--089e0112c39c647f9c04fe72ae95
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">All,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sma=
ll">
Is the idea of using data plane to carry complete metadata is &quot;the way=
&quot; or &quot;a way&quot; of approaching the problem ? Has this been alre=
ady discussed ?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:cour=
ier new,monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,mon=
ospace;font-size:small">I would rather consider to carry metadata in contro=
l plane and only attach a reference_id (and only when it is needed) to the =
data plane.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">Rgs,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">
R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monos=
pace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Xuxiaohu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I&#39;m now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I =
just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (<a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6</a>) propose=
s a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):<br>

<br>
&quot;3. =C2=A0Metadata Channel Header Format<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicat=
ed in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the encapsulation. =C2=A0This document defines that the G-ACh =
Generic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 i=
s<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0utilized for this purpose. =C2=A0The GAL label provides a meth=
od to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identify that a packet contains an &quot;Associated Channel He=
ader (ACH)&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0followed by a non-service payload.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by s=
etting<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the botto=
m label<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b. =C2=A0Furt=
her<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic. =C2=A0This document proposes an extension to allow th=
e first<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the G=
AL, be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interpreted using the semantics defined in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0through the G-ACh channel.&quot;<br>
<br>
However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above stil=
l conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:<br>
<br>
&quot; =C2=A0The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting n=
ormal<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0user-plane packets. =C2=A0Furthermore, when present, the GAL M=
UST NOT<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0appear more than once in the label stack.&quot;<br>
<br>
I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above draf=
t would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether it&#39;s worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a P=
rotocol Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stac=
k. With such PT field, any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata head=
er or NSH) can be easily identified.<br>

<br>
Best regards,<br>
Xiaohu<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e0112c39c647f9c04fe72ae95--


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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Hi Xu,

Yes indeed I do consider proposal from Bruno and Jerome as exact match to
what I had in mind with their "correlator" to mine "reference_id". Just
terminology nit.

Except it is not section 3.3 but 3.5 ...

"3.5. Hybrid in-band marking and out-of-band signaling

Metadata can be signaled using a hybrid approach combining in-band marking
and out-of-band signaling.

Each data packet can carry a small fixed-length field which serves as a
"correlator".  An out-of-band signaling protocol can then be used to map
the correlator value to the actual metadata value(s)."


> If that  =E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D is attached to the MPLS
> packet, it seems that you still need some way to
> indicate the presence of that =E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D in
> the MPLS packet.

I am not sure we need yet another point solution indicator.

We already have two general purpose mechanism which seems like possible
indicators which could be used here:

* RFC 5331 - MPLS Upstream Label Assignment and Context-Specific Label Spac=
e

* RFC 7274 - Allocating and Retiring Special-Purpose MPLS Labels

Rgs,
r.



On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

>  Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> It seems that the concept of =E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D looks much si=
milar with the
> concept of =E2=80=9Ccorrelator=E2=80=9D as defined in section 3.3 of (
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sfc-metadata-considerations-00#p=
age-8).
> That=E2=80=99s the context ID of the metadata I meant.
>
>
>
> If that  =E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D is attached to the MPLS packet, i=
t seems that you
> still need some way to indicate the presence of that =E2=80=9Creference_i=
d=E2=80=9D in the
> MPLS packet.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Xiaohu
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2014 3:27 PM
> *To:* Xuxiaohu; sfc@ietf.org
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; <spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Is the idea of using data plane to carry complete metadata is "the way" o=
r
> "a way" of approaching the problem ? Has this been already discussed ?
>
>
>
> I would rather consider to carry metadata in control plane and only attac=
h
> a reference_id (and only when it is needed) to the data plane.
>
>
>
> Rgs,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I
> just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
> proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
>
> "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
>
>    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
>    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
>    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
>    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
>    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
>    followed by a non-service payload.
>
>    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
>    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
>    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
>    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
>    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
>    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
>    interpreted using the semantics defined in
>    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
>    through the G-ACh channel."
>
> However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above
> still conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
>
> "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
>    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
>    appear more than once in the label stack."
>
> I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above
> draft would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I
> wonder whether it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introduci=
ng
> a Protocol Type (PT) field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label
> stack. With such PT field, any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadat=
a
> header or NSH) can be easily identified.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
>

--089e0122a754ac645804fe7314bf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Hi Xu,</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small=
"><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small">Yes indeed I do consider proposal from Bruno and Je=
rome as exact match to what I had in mind with their &quot;correlator&quot;=
 to mine &quot;reference_id&quot;. Just terminology nit.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Except it is not =
section 3.3 but 3.5 ...</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">&quot;3.5. H=
ybrid in-band marking and out-of-band signaling</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">Metadata can be signaled using a hybrid approach combining in-=
band</font><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace">=C2=
=A0marking and out-of-band signaling.</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">Each data packet can carry a small fixed-length field which se=
rves=C2=A0</font><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace=
">as a &quot;correlator&quot;. =C2=A0An out-of-band signaling protocol can =
then be</span><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace">=
=C2=A0used to map the correlator value to the actual metadata value(s).&quo=
t;</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;,monospace"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style>
<font face=3D"courier new, monospace">&gt; If that =C2=A0=E2=80=9Creference=
_id=E2=80=9D is attached to the MPLS=C2=A0</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">&gt; packet, it seems =
that you still need some way to=C2=A0</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">&g=
t; indicate the presence of that =E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D in=C2=A0</f=
ont></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, mon=
ospace">&gt; the=C2=A0</font><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#3=
9;,monospace">MPLS packet.</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;,monospace"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><fo=
nt face=3D"courier new, monospace">I am not sure we need yet another point =
solution indicator.=C2=A0</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">We already have two general purpose mechanism which seems like=
 possible indicators which could be used here:</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">* RFC 5331 -=C2=A0MPLS Upstream Label Assignment and Context-S=
pecific Label Space</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">* RFC 7274 - Allocating and Retiring Special-Purpose MPLS Labe=
ls</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;,monospace"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Rgs,</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospa=
ce;font-size:small">
r.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&=
#39;,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Xuxiaoh=
u <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi Robert,=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">It seems t=
hat the concept of =E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D looks much similar with t=
he concept of =E2=80=9Ccorrelator=E2=80=9D as defined in section 3.3 of (<a=
 href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sfc-metadata-consideratio=
ns-00#page-8" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rijsman-sf=
c-metadata-considerations-00#page-8</a>).
 That=E2=80=99s the context ID of the metadata I meant.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">If that =
=C2=A0=E2=80=9Creference_id=E2=80=9D is attached to the MPLS packet, it see=
ms that you still need some way to indicate the presence of that =E2=80=9Cr=
eference_id=E2=80=9D in
 the MPLS packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Best regar=
ds,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Xiaohu<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 18, 2014 3:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xuxiaohu; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@=
ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org=
</a>; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packe=
t<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">All,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Is the idea of using data plane to carry complete metadata i=
s &quot;the way&quot; or &quot;a way&quot; of approaching the problem ? Has=
 this been already discussed ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">I would rather consider to carry metadata in control plane a=
nd only attach a reference_id (and only when it is needed) to the data plan=
e.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Rgs,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">R.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:58 AM=
, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xux=
iaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I&#39;m now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I =
just noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00 (<a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6</a>)
 proposes a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):<br=
>
<br>
&quot;3. =C2=A0Metadata Channel Header Format<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicat=
ed in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the encapsulation. =C2=A0This document defines that the G-ACh =
Generic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 i=
s<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0utilized for this purpose. =C2=A0The GAL label provides a meth=
od to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identify that a packet contains an &quot;Associated Channel He=
ader (ACH)&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0followed by a non-service payload.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by s=
etting<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the botto=
m label<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b. =C2=A0Furt=
her<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic. =C2=A0This document proposes an extension to allow th=
e first<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the G=
AL, be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interpreted using the semantics defined in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0through the G-ACh channel.&quot;<br>
<br>
However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above stil=
l conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:<br>
<br>
&quot; =C2=A0The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting n=
ormal<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0user-plane packets. =C2=A0Furthermore, when present, the GAL M=
UST NOT<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0appear more than once in the label stack.&quot;<br>
<br>
I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above draf=
t would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder w=
hether it&#39;s worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a P=
rotocol Type (PT) field immediately
 after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such PT field, any kind of =
future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be easily identified=
.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Xiaohu<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e0122a754ac645804fe7314bf--


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References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294118@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653056176.39234@surrey.ac.uk> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08294173@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1405653745773.33083@surrey.ac.uk>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [sfc] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
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Hi Lloyd,

I think and I do hope that we see only mpls centric proposals as this is
one encapsulation used in the networks.

I hope other proposals will also address v6 encapsulations and that any
encapsulation will use same metadata control plane.

Best,
R.
On Jul 18, 2014 12:23 PM, <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk> wrote:

> No, my "why" is "why have metadata in the MPLS header at all"?
>
> Why does this have to be done inband?
>
> I am questioning the basis for doing this. There is no "must" here.
>
> Lloyd Wood
> http://about.me/lloydwood
> ________________________________________
> From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 1:17 PM
> To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
>
> The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in the
> encapsulation. I think that's the "why" you may want to know.
>
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk [mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk]
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: spring@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> >
> > How? A better question is "why?"
> >
> > What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?
> >
> > Lloyd Wood
> > http://about.me/lloydwood
> > ________________________________________
> > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Xuxiaohu
> > <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Cc: <spring@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet. I
> just
> > noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00
> > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00#page-6)
> proposes
> > a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):
> >
> > "3.  Metadata Channel Header Format
> >
> >    The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in
> >    the encapsulation.  This document defines that the G-ACh Generic
> >    Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value 13 is
> >    utilized for this purpose.  The GAL label provides a method to
> >    identify that a packet contains an "Associated Channel Header (ACH)"
> >    followed by a non-service payload.
> >
> >    [RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel by setting
> >    the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the bottom label
> >    in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b.  Further
> >    [RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user data
> >    traffic.  This document proposes an extension to allow the first
> >    nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following the GAL, be
> >    interpreted using the semantics defined in
> >    [I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be carried
> >    through the G-ACh channel."
> >
> > However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above
> still
> > conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:
> >
> > "  The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transporting normal
> >    user-plane packets.  Furthermore, when present, the GAL MUST NOT
> >    appear more than once in the label stack."
> >
> > I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above
> draft
> > would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonder
> whether
> > it's worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Protocol
> Type (PT)
> > field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such PT
> field,
> > any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be
> easily
> > identified.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Xiaohu
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Hi Lloyd,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I think and I do hope that we see only mpls centric proposal=
s as this is one encapsulation used in the networks.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I hope other proposals will also address v6 encapsulations a=
nd that any encapsulation will use same metadata control plane.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Best,<br>
R.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 18, 2014 12:23 PM,  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk">l.wood@surrey.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribu=
tion"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
No, my &quot;why&quot; is &quot;why have metadata in the MPLS header at all=
&quot;?<br>
<br>
Why does this have to be done inband?<br>
<br>
I am questioning the basis for doing this. There is no &quot;must&quot; her=
e.<br>
<br>
Lloyd Wood<br>
<a href=3D"http://about.me/lloydwood" target=3D"_blank">http://about.me/llo=
ydwood</a><br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com">xuxiaohu@huawei.c=
om</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 1:17 PM<br>
To: Wood L =C2=A0Dr (Electronic Eng); <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls=
@ietf.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mail=
to:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet<br>
<br>
The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be indicated in the enc=
apsulation. I think that&#39;s the &quot;why&quot; you may want to know.<br=
>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Xiaohu<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk">l.wood@surrey.ac.uk</a> [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:l.wood@surrey.ac.uk">l.wood@surrey.ac.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 11:11 AM<br>
&gt; To: Xuxiaohu; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D=
"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; How? A better question is &quot;why?&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What has to be done in MPLS that cannot be done outside it?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Lloyd Wood<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://about.me/lloydwood" target=3D"_blank">http://about.m=
e/lloydwood</a><br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Xuxiaohu<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt;=
<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 11:58 AM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [mpls] How to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m now considering how to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packe=
t. I just<br>
&gt; noticed that draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00<br>
&gt; (<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-metadata-00=
#page-6" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guichard-mpls-m=
etadata-00#page-6</a>) proposes<br>
&gt; a way to carry metadata/context in an MPLS packet (see below):<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;3. =C2=A0Metadata Channel Header Format<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0The presence of metadata within an MPLS packet must be in=
dicated in<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0the encapsulation. =C2=A0This document defines that the G=
-ACh Generic<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0Associated Channel Label (GAL) [RFC5586] with label value=
 13 is<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0utilized for this purpose. =C2=A0The GAL label provides a=
 method to<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0identify that a packet contains an &quot;Associated Chann=
el Header (ACH)&quot;<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0followed by a non-service payload.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] identifies the G-ACh Generic Associated Channel=
 by setting<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0the first nibble of the ACH that immediately follows the =
bottom label<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the stack if the GAL label is present, to 0001b. =C2=
=A0Further<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5586] expects that the ACH not be used to carry user =
data<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic. =C2=A0This document proposes an extension to all=
ow the first<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0nibble of the ACH to be set to 0000b and, when following =
the GAL, be<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0interpreted using the semantics defined in<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.guichard-metadata-header] to allow metadata to be ca=
rried<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0through the G-ACh channel.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; However, it seems that the special usage of the GAL as mentioned above=
 still<br>
&gt; conflicts with the following statement quoted from [RFC5586]:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot; =C2=A0The GAL MUST NOT appear in the label stack when transport=
ing normal<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0user-plane packets. =C2=A0Furthermore, when present, the =
GAL MUST NOT<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0appear more than once in the label stack.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I wonder whether the special usage of the GAL as proposed in the above=
 draft<br>
&gt; would result in any backward compatibility issue. In addition, I wonde=
r whether<br>
&gt; it&#39;s worthwhile to reconsider the possibility of introducing a Pro=
tocol Type (PT)<br>
&gt; field immediately after the bottom of the MPLS label stack. With such =
PT field,<br>
&gt; any kind of future MPLS payload (e.g., metadata header or NSH) can be =
easily<br>
&gt; identified.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt; Xiaohu<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; mpls mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: BFD Directed Path discussion
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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:57:06 +0000
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Subject: [mpls] BFD Directed Path discussion
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--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7F279Feusaamb103erics_
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Dear All,
on behalf of the authors of this work I thank you all who participated in t=
he discussions Monday (BFD WG) and today (MPLS WG). Great comments and sugg=
estions - very excited by your interest in this work.
I've tried to capture summary of the comments and sketch possible ways to a=
ddress these:

*         BFD Return Path TLV suitable for RFC 5880, what about S-BFD?
In order to maintain stateless character of S-BFDReflector, S-BFD control p=
acket may need to carry return path information. Need to discuss with autho=
rs of S-BFD Base and start work on S-BFD over MPLS LSP with IP and ACH enca=
psulations;

*         What would happen if Return Path conveyed to the far-end BFD peer=
 is not available? Ingress may send another BFD Return Path in its TLV alon=
g with the same BFD Discriminator;

*         Can BFD Echo of RFC 5880 be used in conjunction with the BFD Retu=
rn Path TLV over MPLS LSP? It may be interesting as BFD Echo already allows=
 for a payload but work on proper handling and encapsulations of BFD Echo i=
s needed. Besides, use of BFD Echo over MPLS LSP may be limited to single s=
egment LSPs thus S-BFD may be more generic mechanism to have stateless far-=
end BFD peer;

*         how this work is related to Extended BFD Discriminator TLV work? =
Both may be complementary, especially as parts of controlling BFD session. =
Would welcome authors of Extended BFD Discriminator TLV to discussion and r=
eview draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext and draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping=
-mpls-tp-oam-conf drafts (authors are planning to bring them over the finis=
h line)

Please excuse me if I've missed your question and please add it to this dis=
cussion.

                Regards,
                                Greg

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">on behalf of the authors of this work I thank you al=
l who participated in the discussions Monday (BFD WG) and today (MPLS WG). =
Great comments and suggestions &#8211; very excited by your interest in thi=
s work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;ve tried to capture summary of the comments =
and sketch possible ways to address these:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>BFD Return Path TLV suitable for RFC 5880, w=
hat about S-BFD?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">In order to maintain stat=
eless character of S-BFDReflector, S-BFD control packet may need to carry r=
eturn path information. Need to discuss with authors of S-BFD Base and star=
t work on S-BFD over MPLS LSP with IP
 and ACH encapsulations;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>What would happen if Return Path conveyed to=
 the far-end BFD peer is not available? Ingress may send another BFD Return=
 Path in its TLV along with the same BFD Discriminator;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Can BFD Echo of RFC 5880 be used in conjunct=
ion with the BFD Return Path TLV over MPLS LSP? It may be interesting as BF=
D Echo already allows for a payload but work on proper handling and encapsu=
lations of BFD Echo is needed. Besides,
 use of BFD Echo over MPLS LSP may be limited to single segment LSPs thus S=
-BFD may be more generic mechanism to have stateless far-end BFD peer;<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>how this work is related to Extended BFD Dis=
criminator TLV work? Both may be complementary, especially as parts of cont=
rolling BFD session. Would welcome authors of Extended BFD Discriminator TL=
V to discussion and review draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext
 and draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf drafts (authors are planning=
 to bring them over the finish line)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please excuse me if I&#8217;ve missed your question =
and please add it to this discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7F279Feusaamb103erics_--


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From: Sri <sriganeshkini@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:40:08 -0700
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To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Rob, see inline.

[MPLS WG added to discussion]


On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:

> Hi SPRING, draft-kini=E2=80=A6 authors,
>
> I have a few comments on the discussion within this draft =E2=80=94 and a=
 quick
> question
> on the intention around the document.
>
> - I feel that it would be useful to provide some clarification as to wher=
e
> we
>   expect entropy to be required for load-sharing in the draft. The curren=
t
>   wording (to me) could be read to say that where Adj-SID is used, then
> there
>   is no requirement to consider placement for EL since there will be no
>   load-balancing. However, since Adj-SID can apply to a bundle (3.5.1 in
>   draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-04), or the underlying transport
> for an
>   IGP adjacency can be multi-path (e.g., an aggregated Ethernet link)
>   this is not true unless a head-end PE can guarantee that a particular
>   adjacency is made up of a transport that has only 1 path (i.e.,
> explicitly
>   requires no load-balancing). I'm not sure how the iLER would actually
> determine
>   this, short of the definition of new per-adjacency advertisement
> capabilities.
>   Even if it were able to, then it seems the result is very likely to be
> that an
>   approach that requires per-hop entropy labels to be injected is going t=
o
>   guarantee label stack depth >=3D 3*[number of path SIDs].
>

Sri> You are correct. If a SID identifies multiple physical paths as in the
case of Adj-SID identifying a bundle, then load balancing on that segment
would be useful. When there is no information that every SID of a LSP maps
to a single physical path, a load-balancing mechanism should be used for
that LSP. I agree that today there is no mechanism to give such information
about the mapping, so load balancing on every segment is useful. Whether
that is achieved by using an EL per segment as described in sec 3.2 thereby
resulting in a label stack of 3*#SIDs is something to be discussed. The
draft lists the downsides of choosing that option.


>
>   I think that the above means that the current draft under-estimates the
> depth
>   of the stack when considering an EL per tunnel (=C2=A73.2), which might
> amplify
>   some of the concerns raised for this option.
>


Sri> The draft does not estimate stack depth (without EL) since the depth
is dependent on the degree of strict-hop traffic-engineering desired by the
application. If you meant to say that the label stack is deep due to the
application trying to make it as close to the desired physical path but you
end up using the EL per segment anyways since there isn't information to
determine for sure whether the mapping is to a single physical path, then
yes the label stack will be very deep.


>
> - =C2=A73.4 - I am not clear how we would really implement this option. I=
f we
> learn
>   midpoint capabilities, and then tune our placement of the EL based on
> these,
>   then it seems like the only viable approach is really to consider _all_
>   midpoints, and tune the placement according to the "shallowest" midpoin=
t
> in
>   the network. This is because, whilst we might expect that there is
> routing via
>   some particular path, this might change if there is ECMP between
> mid-points
>   nodes where some paths have different capabilities than others, and
> equally
>   might change whilst re-routing occurs.
>

Sri> This is correct. In case of re-routing from ingress, the algorithm to
compute EL depths have to be re-computed. If the re-route is like FRR via a
bypass LSP, the PLR may want to insert ELs if load-balancing is desired
along the bypass.


>
>   In terms of discovery of the capabilities of a mid-point -- do we need =
to
>   consider how, in a multi-area network, we discover the capabilities of =
a
>   mid-point which might not have information about it leaked between area=
s?
>

Sri> Option in 3.4 runs into such complications in case of multi-area. All
such cases have not been addressed yet for the option in 3.4


>
> - Finally, it'd be good to determine what the intention of the authors fo=
r
> this
>   document is. Do we expect that we make a recommendation as to what
> equipment
>   vendors who are going to support SR-MPLS should optimise for? At the
> moment,
>   the document is good at classifying the different approaches that
> _could_ be
>   taken, but potentially requires an operator/vendor to consider
> optimisation
>   for both a) reading very deep into the stack when acting as an LSR, b)
> pushing
>   very deep stacks when acting as iLER, c) potentially implementing more
> complex
>   swap() operations, whereby some reshuffling of the EL is required.
>
>   My feeling is that it would be very useful for this document to be able
> to
>   make a clear recommendation as to which of these approaches should be
>   optimised for, and hence we should debate their technical efficacy. It'=
d
> be
>   good to understand whether the authors are intending to do this, or
> rather
>   classify the approaches.
>

Sri> The first goal of the draft was to list the various approaches. But
the final goal is to come up with recommendations through the discussions
on the various approaches.


>
> Cheers,
> r.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

Thanks
Sri

--089e0158c8d04563a404fed69e29
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Rob, see inline.<div><br></div><div>[MPLS WG added to d=
iscussion]<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Rob Shakir <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rjs@rob.sh" target=3D"_blank">rjs@rob.sh</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi SPRING, draft-kini=E2=80=A6 authors,<br>
<br>
I have a few comments on the discussion within this draft =E2=80=94 and a q=
uick question<br>
on the intention around the document.<br>
<br>
- I feel that it would be useful to provide some clarification as to where =
we<br>
=C2=A0 expect entropy to be required for load-sharing in the draft. The cur=
rent<br>
=C2=A0 wording (to me) could be read to say that where Adj-SID is used, the=
n there<br>
=C2=A0 is no requirement to consider placement for EL since there will be n=
o<br>
=C2=A0 load-balancing. However, since Adj-SID can apply to a bundle (3.5.1 =
in<br>
=C2=A0 draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-04), or the underlying transpo=
rt for an<br>
=C2=A0 IGP adjacency can be multi-path (e.g., an aggregated Ethernet link)<=
br>
=C2=A0 this is not true unless a head-end PE can guarantee that a particula=
r<br>
=C2=A0 adjacency is made up of a transport that has only 1 path (i.e., expl=
icitly<br>
=C2=A0 requires no load-balancing). I&#39;m not sure how the iLER would act=
ually determine<br>
=C2=A0 this, short of the definition of new per-adjacency advertisement cap=
abilities.<br>
=C2=A0 Even if it were able to, then it seems the result is very likely to =
be that an<br>
=C2=A0 approach that requires per-hop entropy labels to be injected is goin=
g to<br>
=C2=A0 guarantee label stack depth &gt;=3D 3*[number of path SIDs].<br></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>Sri&gt; You are correct. If a SID identifies m=
ultiple physical paths as in the case of Adj-SID identifying a bundle, then=
 load balancing on that segment would be useful. When there is no informati=
on that every SID of a LSP maps to a single physical path, a load-balancing=
 mechanism should be used for that LSP. I agree that today there is no mech=
anism to give such information about the mapping, so load balancing on ever=
y segment is useful. Whether that is achieved by using an EL per segment as=
 described in sec 3.2 thereby resulting in a label stack of 3*#SIDs is some=
thing to be discussed. The draft lists the downsides of choosing that optio=
n.=C2=A0</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 I think that the above means that the current draft under-estimates =
the depth<br>
=C2=A0 of the stack when considering an EL per tunnel (=C2=A73.2), which mi=
ght amplify<br>
=C2=A0 some of the concerns raised for this option.<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>Sri&gt; The draft does not estimate stack depth=
 (without EL) since the depth is dependent on the degree of strict-hop traf=
fic-engineering desired by the application. If you meant to say that the la=
bel stack is deep due to the application trying to make it as close to the =
desired physical path but you end up using the EL per segment anyways since=
 there isn&#39;t information to determine for sure whether the mapping is t=
o a single physical path, then yes the label stack will be very deep.=C2=A0=
</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- =C2=A73.4 - I am not clear how we would really implement this option. If =
we learn<br>
=C2=A0 midpoint capabilities, and then tune our placement of the EL based o=
n these,<br>
=C2=A0 then it seems like the only viable approach is really to consider _a=
ll_<br>
=C2=A0 midpoints, and tune the placement according to the &quot;shallowest&=
quot; midpoint in<br>
=C2=A0 the network. This is because, whilst we might expect that there is r=
outing via<br>
=C2=A0 some particular path, this might change if there is ECMP between mid=
-points<br>
=C2=A0 nodes where some paths have different capabilities than others, and =
equally<br>
=C2=A0 might change whilst re-routing occurs.<br></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>Sri&gt; This is correct. In case of re-routing from ingress, the alg=
orithm to compute EL depths have to be re-computed. If the re-route is like=
 FRR via a bypass LSP, the PLR may want to insert ELs if load-balancing is =
desired along the bypass.=C2=A0</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 In terms of discovery of the capabilities of a mid-point -- do we ne=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 consider how, in a multi-area network, we discover the capabilities =
of a<br>
=C2=A0 mid-point which might not have information about it leaked between a=
reas?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sri&gt; Option in 3.4 runs into s=
uch complications in case of multi-area. All such cases have not been addre=
ssed yet for the option in 3.4</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Finally, it&#39;d be good to determine what the intention of the authors =
for this<br>
=C2=A0 document is. Do we expect that we make a recommendation as to what e=
quipment<br>
=C2=A0 vendors who are going to support SR-MPLS should optimise for? At the=
 moment,<br>
=C2=A0 the document is good at classifying the different approaches that _c=
ould_ be<br>
=C2=A0 taken, but potentially requires an operator/vendor to consider optim=
isation<br>
=C2=A0 for both a) reading very deep into the stack when acting as an LSR, =
b) pushing<br>
=C2=A0 very deep stacks when acting as iLER, c) potentially implementing mo=
re complex<br>
=C2=A0 swap() operations, whereby some reshuffling of the EL is required.<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 My feeling is that it would be very useful for this document to be a=
ble to<br>
=C2=A0 make a clear recommendation as to which of these approaches should b=
e<br>
=C2=A0 optimised for, and hence we should debate their technical efficacy. =
It&#39;d be<br>
=C2=A0 good to understand whether the authors are intending to do this, or =
rather<br>
=C2=A0 classify the approaches.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sri&gt;=
 The first goal of the draft was to list the various approaches. But the fi=
nal goal is to come up with recommendations through the discussions on the =
various approaches.</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Cheers,<br>
r.<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Thanks</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra">Sri</div></div></div>

--089e0158c8d04563a404fed69e29--


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Yaacov, Jeong,
    I'm not sure how the latest text addresses the ambiguity you
identified below.  Perhaps adding the words "on a per LSP basis" to the
requirement?  If the ambiguity is intentional, then of course no change
is warranted.

Lou

On 7/5/2014 3:49 PM, Yaacov Weingarten wrote:
>
> Lou, hi
> I would like to address two of your comments, in your follow-up
> message, since I am the source of the change in terminology.
>
> Regarding the two occurences of "assigned" in place of "utilized" -
> when I read the proposed changes,as discussed amongst the authors, I
> felt that in those two instances the use of "utilized" could lead to
> some ambiguity.
>
> If we state that "resources SHOULD be utilized on a first come first
> served basis" this could be interpreted (IMO) as referring to the
> packet level, rather than  utilized by a specific path, such that
> packets from different paths could be interspersed along the shared
> segments. Therefore,I suggested that or this context it would be
> better to use a word that meant that the first-come first served basis
> was at the level of assigning (or allocating) the resources rather
> than utilizing them.
>
> Hope this clarifies this point. I am certain that I speak for the
> other authors in  saying that I am open to other suggestions.
>
> BR,
> yaacov
>
> On Jul 4, 2014 3:53 AM, "Jeong Ryoo" <ryoo@etri.re.kr
> <mailto:ryoo@etri.re.kr>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Lou,
>
>      
>
>     Thanks a lot for your valuable comments.
>
>      
>
>     The authors of this draft have discussed your comments, and are
>     proposing our resolutions to your comments. Please, let us know if
>     the proposal is appropriate to address your comments and concerns.
>
>      
>
>     Best regards,
>
>      
>
>     Authors of draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements draft
>
>      
>
>     ****** Beginning of Comment Resolution ******
>
>      
>
>     - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
>     In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
>     distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
>     resources are "committed". This difference from past
>     definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
>     and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
>     *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
>     The distinction between protection and restoration is made based
>     on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span
>     establishment. The distinction between different types of
>     restoration is made based on the level of route computation,
>     signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration
>     LSP/span establishment.
>
>     This difference also leads to come confused statements in the
>     document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the
>     reader. The term "committed" is not tightly defined in this
>     document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how
>     "allocated" has been used. An example of this can be found in
>     Section 3.1 which states:
>
>     However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the
>     shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection
>     path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -
>     regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between
>     protection and restoration.
>
>     Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to
>     cover a "protection switch" would "connect" the protection path
>     but not the earlier "allocation" of resources. (Quoted terms are
>     used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new
>     distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with
>     the existing distinction.
>
>     This issue exists in multiple places in the document where
>     "committed" is used and I'd recommend that each should be replaced
>     with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., "allocation",
>     "connection", "cross-connect", "protection switch(over)", ...
>
>     Note I'm *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the
>     document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the
>     document where I think it's possible that once this terminology
>     ambiguity is corrected that I'll have other substantive comments.
>
>      
>
>     [Authors] After reviewing RFCs 4427, 6372, 3945, 4426, and 4428,
>     we concluded that the distinction between protection and
>     restoration should be aligned with the exiting documents
>     normatively referenced by this document. Accordingly, the
>     following 16 modifications will be done in revision:
>
>      
>
>     (1) Section 1, the third paragraph
>
>     OLD:
>
>     As pointed out
>
>     in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 linear protection requires
>
>     that resources are committed for use by both the working and
>
>     protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that the same
>
>     resources are committed, but allows the resources of the protection
>
>     path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     As pointed out
>
>     in [RFC6372] and [RFC4428], applying 1+1 protection requires
>
>     that resources are allocated for use by both the working and
>
>     protection paths. Applying 1:1 protection requires that the same
>
>     resources are allocated, but allows the resources of the protection
>
>     path to be utilized for pre-emptible extra traffic.
>
>      
>
>     (2) The whole text in Section 3.1 will be replaced with:
>
>     [RFC6372], based upon the definitions in [RFC4427], differentiates
>     between "protection" and "restoration" dependent upon the dynamism
>     of the resource allocation. The same distinction is used in
>     [RFC3945], [RFC4426], and [RFC4428]. This document also uses the
>     same distinction between protection and restoration as stated in
>     [RFC6372].
>
>      
>
>     (3) In page 6,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     The use of preemption in the network is typically a business or
>
>     policy decision such that when protection resources are contended,
>
>     priority can be applied to determine to which parties the protection
>
>     resources are committed.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     The use of preemption in the network is typically a business or
>
>     policy decision such that when protection resources are contended,
>
>     priority can be applied to determine which parties utilize the
>     protection
>
>     resources.
>
>      
>
>     (4) Page 7, the first paragraph:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     the resources for the protection path are fully committed,
>
>     NEW
>
>     the resources for the protection path are fully dedicated,
>
>      
>
>     OLD:
>
>     resources may be planned but would not be committed until …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     resources may be planned but would not be utilized until …
>
>      
>
>     (5) In the second paragraph in page 7,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     "Hard Preemption" requires the programming of selectors at the
>     ingress of each shared segment to specify which backup path has
>     the highest priority when committing protection resources, the
>     others being preempted.
>
>     NEW
>
>     "Hard Preemption" requires the programming of selectors at the
>     ingress of each shared segment to specify the priorities of backup
>     paths, so that traffic of lower priority paths can be preempted.
>
>      
>
>     (6) The first paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … and commit the associated resources. The commitment of resources
>
>     is dependent upon …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     … and coordinate the utilization of the associated shared resources.
>
>     The resource utilization coordination is dependent upon …
>
>      
>
>     (7) The second paragraph of Section 4.1:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     When the reserved resources of the shared segments are committed to a
>
>     particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
>     available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
>     if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
>     switch, the commitment of the resources may fail. In order to
>
>     optimize the operation of the commitment and preparing for cases of
>
>     multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the shared
>
>     resources are be coordinated between the different working paths in
>
>     the SMP network.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     When the reserved resources of the shared segments are utilized by a
>
>     particular protection path, there may not be sufficient resources
>
>     available for an additional protection path. This then implies that
>
>     if another working path of the SMP domain triggers a protection
>
>     switch, the resource utilization coordination may fail. The
>     different working paths in
>
>     the SMP network are involved in the resource utilization
>     coordination. 
>
>     .
>
>      
>
>     (8) Section 5.1,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … and commit the associated resources.
>
>     NEW
>
>     … and coordinate the utilization of the associated shared resources.
>
>      
>
>     (9) In Section 5.1,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     In the case of multiple working paths failing, the commitment of the
>
>     shared resources SHALL be coordinated between the different working
>
>     paths in the SMP network.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     In the case of multiple working paths failing, the shared resource
>     utilization
>
>     coordination SHALL be between the different working
>
>     paths in the SMP network.
>
>      
>
>     (10) Section 5.1.1.
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … because they already have been committed to the protection of,
>     for example, a higher priority working path.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     … because they already have been utilized for the protection of,
>     for example, a higher priority working path.
>
>      
>
>     (11) Section 5.2, the second bullet item:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Resources of the shared segments SHALL be committed to the
>
>     protection path …
>
>     NEW:                
>
>     Resources of the shared segments SHALL be utilized by the
>
>     protection path …
>
>      
>
>     (12) Section 5.2, the third bullet item:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
>     allocation of the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
>     committed on a first come first served basis.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     If multiple protection paths of equal priority are requesting
>
>     the shared resources, the resources SHOULD be
>
>     assigned on a first come first served basis.
>
>      
>
>     (13) Section 5.2, the fourth bullet item:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     If the protection resources are committed to a protection path,
>
>     whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
>     the higher priority path SHALL be committed to the higher priority
>
>     path.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     If the protection resources are utilized by a protection path,
>
>     whose working path has a lower priority, resources required for
>
>     the higher priority path SHALL be assigned to the higher priority
>
>     path.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     (14) Section 5.2. the seventh bullet item
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Once resources of shared segments have been successfully committed
>
>     to a protection path, …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     Once resources of shared segments have been successfully utilized
>
>     by a protection path, …
>
>      
>
>     (15) Section 5.3, the first paragraph,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     … request the commitment of protection resources. If the necessary
>
>     shared resources are unavailable to be committed to the protection
>
>     path, the endpoints …
>
>      
>
>     NEW:
>
>     … request the coordination of the shared resource utilization. If
>     the necessary
>
>     shared resources are unavailable, the endpoints …
>
>      
>
>     (16) Section 5.3, the second paragraph,
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources currently
>
>     committed for a particular working path are …
>
>     NEW:
>
>     Similarly, if preemption is supported and the resources currently
>
>     utilized by a particular working path are …
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really
>     defines
>     the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
>     to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
>     requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
>     the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
>     3).
>
>     [Authors] We can add the following paragraph at the end of Section 1:
>
>     “This document is intended to clarify the instructions to protocol
>     designers producing solutions that satisfy the requirements set
>     out in this document.”
>
>      
>
>
>     - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
>     protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
>     I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
>     required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
>     case, but don't see this in the document.
>
>     [Authors] Fate-sharing is not required by this document. Even in
>     the PSC linear protection switching, such as RFC 6378 (PSC) and
>     RFC 7271 (PSC in APS mode), fate-sharing is not required as
>     unidirectional switching is allowed. This document does not impose
>     any restriction on co-routing, either.
>
>      
>
>
>     - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
>     preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
>     reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
>     in dependent of control plane.
>
>     [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and
>     hard preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not
>     exactly the case for SMP.
>
>      
>
>
>     - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
>     carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
>     GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
>     please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
>     control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
>     document.
>
>     [Authors] Yes, we will make the correction.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
>     referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
>     informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
>     mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
>     an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
>     you can say is MAY.
>
>     [Authors] The first case is the one we are aiming at. We will use
>     SHALL NOT.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
>     domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
>     rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
>     [Authors] The sentence can be rewritten as:
>
>     OLD:
>
>     Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
>     NEW:
>
>     In order to cover the situation where the first come first served
>     principle cannot resolve the contention among multiple equal
>     priority requests, i.e., when the requests occur simultaneously,,
>     tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP domain.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
>     leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
>     do more / not just follow 6372?
>
>     [Authors] We can add the following sentence at the end:
>
>     “As described in [RFC6372], the event of preemption may be
>     detected by OAM and reported as a fault or a degradation of
>     traffic delivery.” 
>
>
>     - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on
>     soft-preemption as
>     well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
>     establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
>     independent of preemption mode.
>
>     [Authors] Yes, we will change the second paragraph from “SMP in
>     hard-preemption mode SHOULD …” to “SMP SHOULD …” and move the
>     changed paragraph above the first paragraph.
>
>      
>
>
>     Nits:
>
>     - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used
>     in any
>     earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
>     undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
>     "protection switch"?
>
>     [Authors] Yes, the term will be changed as you suggested.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
>     MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
>     document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
>     The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
>     critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
>     provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
>     for this document.
>
>     [Authors] The proposed text for the paragraph 1 is:
>
>     “The MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) is described in [RFC5921],
>
>     and [RFC6372] provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP
>
>     and is the foundation for this document.”
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
>     Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
>     4427/4428 don't use it.
>
>     [Authors] OK.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>     - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really
>     introductory
>     text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
>     [Authors] Section 3 was intended to present a reference model for
>     SMP. Some text of Section 2 is repeated in Section 1 as you
>     suggested earlier.
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
>     solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
>     [Authors] [RFC4206] will be added as a reference
>
>
>     - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
>     [Authors] OK, the term will be changed.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
>     mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
>     protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
>     [Authors] Both actions should occur at the same time, or as
>     closely as possible to provide fast protection.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted
>     requirements
>     list.
>
>     [Authors] OK, we will use numbers.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
>     both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
>     slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
>     requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
>     [Authors] The first paragraph is for soft-preemption, while the
>     fourth bullet belongs to the requirements of hard-preemption.
>
>
>     - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
>     the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
>     [Authors] Yes, req 5 can be moved to Section 5.5.
>
>      
>
>
>     - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it
>     should be
>     dropped.
>
>     [Authors] Yes, it will be deleted.
>
>
>     - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
>     just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
>     [Authors] Req. 9 will be deleted as it seems to require control
>     plane supports.
>
>
>
>     - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
>     [Authors] OK.
>
>      
>
>
>     - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
>     node not the path.
>
>     [Authors] Yes. We will simply say that “When the condition that
>     triggered the protection switching is cleared, …”
>
>
>     - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
>     the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
>     point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
>     made as a minor comment.)
>
>     [Authors] As in other protection switching technologies, two modes
>     of operations (revertive and non-revertive) are required.
>
>      
>
>
>     - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
>     [Authors] We will add “as described in [RFC6372]” to the ends of
>     two paragraphs for WTR timer and hold-off timer.
>
>      
>
>     ***** End of Comment resolution *****
>
>      
>      
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *보낸 사람 : *"Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net
>     <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>
>     *보낸 날짜 : *2014-06-22 01:00:48 ( +09:00 )
>     *받는 사람 : *rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org> <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>>
>     *참조 : *rtg-dir@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org>
>     <rtg-dir@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org>>,
>     draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org>
>     <draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org>>,
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mpls@ietf.org
>     <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>
>     *제목 : *[mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
>
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this
>     draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or
>     routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG
>     review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is
>     to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information
>     about the
>     Routing Directorate, please see
>     http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
>     Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing
>     ADs, it
>     would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF
>     Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them
>     through
>     discussion or by updating the draft.
>
>     Document: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-06.txt
>     Reviewer: Lou Berger
>     Review Date: June 21 2014
>     IETF LC End Date: 2014-06-23
>     Intended Status: Informational
>
>     Summary:
>     I have some minor concerns about this document that I think
>     should (must, actually) be resolved before publication.
>
>     Comments:
>
>     I think the document is well written and, other than a couple of
>     terminology related issues, easily understood. The document does
>     have a number of terminology and technical issues which should be
>     readily resolved prior to publication.
>
>     Major Issues:
>
>     Major issues are the type of concerns that will result in the
>     document being blocked until they are resolved. The Routing ADs will
>     become involved. Please include all of the major issues you have
>     found. Give as much context information as possible (e.g., section
>     numbers, paragraph counts). If you find no major issues, please
>     write: "No major issues found."
>
>     - No major issues found. In particular, I expect all issues can be
>     resolved without AD intervention. Some of the minor issues, if not
>     resolved will be escalated to the AD/major issue category.
>
>     Minor Issues:
>
>     Minor issues are concerns about clarity or technical accuracy that
>     should be discussed and resolved before publication, but which would
>     normally be resolved between the authors and the reviewers. Please
>     include all of the minor issues you have found. Give as much context
>     information as possible (e.g., section numbers, paragraph counts).
>     If you find no minor issues, please write: "No minor issues found."
>
>     - Document's usage of "committed" vs "allocated" resources:
>
>     In section 1 the document introduces the notion that the
>     distinction between protection and restoration is based on when
>     resources are "committed". This difference from past
>     definition. RFC4427 and 6372 make the distinction that protection
>     and restoration differ based on when resources are *allocated* not
>     *committed*. To quote RFC 4427:
>
>     The distinction between protection and restoration is made based
>     on the resource allocation done during the recovery LSP/span
>     establishment. The distinction between different types of
>     restoration is made based on the level of route computation,
>     signaling, and resource allocation during the restoration
>     LSP/span establishment.
>
>     This difference also leads to come confused statements in the
>     document as well as ambiguity in the text, i.e. confusion by the
>     reader. The term "committed" is not tightly defined in this
>     document (or earlier work) and is used differently than how
>     "allocated" has been used. An example of this can be found in
>     Section 3.1 which states:
>
>     However, the commitment of the resources, at least for the
>     shared segments, will only be finalized when the protection
>     path is actually activated. Therefore, for the purists -
>     regarding the terminology - SMP lies somewhere between
>     protection and restoration.
>
>     Both sentences are problematic. In the first, commitment seems to
>     cover a "protection switch" would "connect" the protection path
>     but not the earlier "allocation" of resources. (Quoted terms are
>     used in earlier RFCs.) The second conclusion is based on the new
>     distinction of protection vs. restoration and is unnecessary with
>     the existing distinction.
>
>     This issue exists in multiple places in the document where
>     "committed" is used and I'd recommend that each should be replaced
>     with terminology used in the referenced RFCs, i.e., "allocation",
>     "connection", "cross-connect", "protection switch(over)", ...
>
>     Note I'm *not* highlighting all cases where there are problems in the
>     document related to this issue. There are a couple of places in the
>     document where I think it's possible that once this terminology
>     ambiguity is corrected that I'll have other substantive comments.
>
>     - Section 2, 1st paragraph, last sentence. This sentence really
>     defines
>     the scope/purpose of the document, i.e., "clarifies the instructions
>     to protocol designers producing solutions that satisfy the
>     requirements set out in this document." As such, I'd repeat this in
>     the abstract and move it to a more pronounced place in section 1 (or
>     3).
>
>     - General comment: fate-sharing for co-routed bidirectional LSP
>     protection: How is co-routing preserved for the reverse path in SMP?
>     I'd assumed the protection switch coordination protocol would be
>     required to trigger a switchover of the reverse LSP in the co-routed
>     case, but don't see this in the document.
>
>     - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
>     preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
>     reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
>     in dependent of control plane.
>
>     - In section 4.2 you say "Therefore, it is suggested that this be
>     carried out under the control of a dynamic control plane similar to
>     GMPLS [RFC3945]." perhaps you mean "based on GMPLS"? If so, great,
>     please make the correction. If not, I think the debate of which
>     control protocol is used for MPLS-TP is way beyond the scope of this
>     document.
>
>     - Section 5.1, paragraph 1. Why are you using "SHOULD NOT" here? If
>     referring to solutions conformant with this document, then these are
>     informative statements, "and a non-control plane based SMP switchover
>     mechanism is used, the control plane SHALL NOT ...". If referring to
>     an operator's/user's choice of protection mechanism, I think the most
>     you can say is MAY.
>
>     - Section 5.2. "Tie-breaking rules SHALL be defined in scope of an SMP
>     domain." As this is a requirement, what you mean by "tie-breaking
>     rules" should be defined directly or by reference.
>
>     - Section 5.3. RFC6372 takes an approach where preemption notification
>     leverages the standard MPLS-TP OAM mechanisms, is there any reason to
>     do more / not just follow 6372?
>
>     - Section 5.7. There may be coordination required on
>     soft-preemption as
>     well (depending on the cross-connects established during LSP
>     establishment) so coordinated switching should be supported
>     independent of preemption mode.
>
>     Nits:
>
>     - Abstract: I don't recall the term "executive action" being used
>     in any
>     earlier related/referenced RFCs. Rather than introduce a new (and
>     undefined) term, perhaps you can use an existing one, e.g.,
>     "protection switch"?
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 1. Do we really need another definition of
>     MPLS-TP to debate? I suggest just referencing your favorite MPLS-TP
>     document(s) and dropping the first four sentences.
>
>     The last sentence also makes a subjective statement. Whether it is
>     critical or no is unnecessary. You can just say something like 6372
>     provides a survivability framework for MPLS-TP and is the foundation
>     for this document.
>
>     - Section 1, paragraph 3. Isn't the right reference 4427 not 4428?
>     Also drop the word linear, as it is an unnecessary qualifier and
>     4427/4428 don't use it.
>
>     - Sections 3 (and to a lesser degree section 2) are really
>     introductory
>     text. I'm unsure as to why they aren't part of section 1.
>
>     - Section 3.2 should have a reference for "existing control plane
>     solutions for SMP within MPLS".
>
>     - Section 3.2 again uses the "executive action" term.
>
>     - Section 4.1. You say "two operations simultaneously". Do you really
>     mean "simultaneously" or merely that they must both occur for
>     protection to be provided? (Same comment in section 5.1.
>
>     - Section 5.2. I suggest numbering the currently bulletted
>     requirements
>     list.
>
>     - Section 5.2: First paragraph and forth bullet last sentence. These
>     both basically cover the same topic (preemption) and actually say
>     slightly different things. I suggest combine into a single
>     requirement to ensure consistency and full coverage of the topic.
>
>     - Section 5.2, req 5. How does this relate to section 5.5? Shouldn't
>     the topics related to timing be consolidated?
>
>     - Section 5.2: requirement 6 seems to be a subset of 7, so it
>     should be
>     dropped.
>
>     - Section 5.2, requirement 8. Isn't this a subset of 9? Why call out
>     just this one traffic treatment (sub) requirement?
>
>     - Section 5.3. s/MAY/will
>
>     - section 5.4: " When the working path detects.." detection is by the
>     node not the path.
>
>     - Section 5.4, last sentence. This is only the 2nd time you imply that
>     the document covers requirements on a new protocol. I think this
>     point is currently too subtle in the document. (This point was also
>     made as a minor comment.)
>
>     - section 5.6. RFC 6372 should be referenced
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>


From nobody Wed Jul 23 08:26:08 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Sri!

Thanks for the feedback.

On 23 Jul 2014, at 02:40, Sri <sriganeshkini@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sri> You are correct. If a SID identifies multiple physical paths as =
in the case of Adj-SID identifying a bundle, then load balancing on that =
segment would be useful. When there is no information that every SID of =
a LSP maps to a single physical path, a load-balancing mechanism should =
be used for that LSP. I agree that today there is no mechanism to give =
such information about the mapping, so load balancing on every segment =
is useful. Whether that is achieved by using an EL per segment as =
described in sec 3.2 thereby resulting in a label stack of 3*#SIDs is =
something to be discussed. The draft lists the downsides of choosing =
that option.=20
> =20
>=20
>   I think that the above means that the current draft under-estimates =
the depth
>   of the stack when considering an EL per tunnel (=A73.2), which might =
amplify
>   some of the concerns raised for this option.
>=20
>=20
> Sri> The draft does not estimate stack depth (without EL) since the =
depth is dependent on the degree of strict-hop traffic-engineering =
desired by the application. If you meant to say that the label stack is =
deep due to the application trying to make it as close to the desired =
physical path but you end up using the EL per segment anyways since =
there isn't information to determine for sure whether the mapping is to =
a single physical path, then yes the label stack will be very deep.=20

rjs> Absolutely. The point that I think is important here is that in the =
case that we have:

src->[ A ] -- [ B ] -- [ C ] -- [ D ] -- [ E ]->sink
        \                |        /
         --------------[ F ] -----

And we have a strict requirement for A-B-C-D-E, then whilst it might =
immediately look like we could specify:

<SA{B},SB{C},SC{D},SD{E},SE{sink}> [5 labels]

then actually, the requirement for EL per tunnel is now:

<SA{B},ELI,EL,SB{C},ELI,EL,SC{D},ELI,EL,SD{E},ELI,EL,SE{sink},ELI,EL> =
[15 labels]

The example that you have in the document makes the case look somewhat =
better than this. As you say, this is because the application that is =
chosen in the example is somewhat less strict with its path placement =
requirements, and a number of the labels in the stack are associated =
with services. A reader could easily conclude that since the strict =
src->A->B->C->D->E->sink path that is chosen has affinity to individual =
adjacencies, this concern does not apply, but to deal with the fact that =
things are bundles/LAGs, then I think it does.=20

It=92d be great if we could patch the wording (happy to help contribute) =
to provide some wording that says that applications that already produce =
deep label stacks would produce even deeper label stacks with this =
option AND we know that there are limitations with the number of labels =
that can be pushed by real h/w today.

> Sri> This is correct. In case of re-routing from ingress, the =
algorithm to compute EL depths have to be re-computed. If the re-route =
is like FRR via a bypass LSP, the PLR may want to insert ELs if =
load-balancing is desired along the bypass.=20
>=20
>=20
>   In terms of discovery of the capabilities of a mid-point -- do we =
need to
>   consider how, in a multi-area network, we discover the capabilities =
of a
>   mid-point which might not have information about it leaked between =
areas?
>=20
> Sri> Option in 3.4 runs into such complications in case of multi-area. =
All such cases have not been addressed yet for the option in 3.4

rjs> Sure =97 it would potentially be good to note this as a downside. =
Especially if there=92s no clear solution other than leaking information =
between areas, since this has impact on operator=92s network designs =
today.

>  - Finally, it'd be good to determine what the intention of the =
authors for this
>   document is. Do we expect that we make a recommendation as to what =
equipment
>   vendors who are going to support SR-MPLS should optimise for? At the =
moment,
>   the document is good at classifying the different approaches that =
_could_ be
>   taken, but potentially requires an operator/vendor to consider =
optimisation
>   for both a) reading very deep into the stack when acting as an LSR, =
b) pushing
>   very deep stacks when acting as iLER, c) potentially implementing =
more complex
>   swap() operations, whereby some reshuffling of the EL is required.
>=20
>   My feeling is that it would be very useful for this document to be =
able to
>   make a clear recommendation as to which of these approaches should =
be
>   optimised for, and hence we should debate their technical efficacy. =
It'd be
>   good to understand whether the authors are intending to do this, or =
rather
>   classify the approaches.
>=20
> Sri> The first goal of the draft was to list the various approaches. =
But the final goal is to come up with recommendations through the =
discussions on the various approaches.

rjs> Great =97 aligned with this, I think there would be some utility to =
adding another option, which is that where there are ECMPs that can be =
differentiated in terms of use of different SIDs (e.g., load-balancing =
across two core planes), then a head-end based option (as per the =
approach that we would take today with RSVP-TE LSPs) is possible.

rjs> Addressing the final goal - as per Stephane=92s comments - I would =
like to recommend that we specify =A73.1 as the target option (such that =
we have a single ELI/EL deeper in the stack) as the =93ideal=94 option. =
It then seems to me that a debate as to whether the forwarding behaviour =
in =A73.3 is possible with most h/w today (both mean that either we =
change the number of operations that are required on a forwarding device =
when popping/swapping labels as far as I can see), or whether the =
approach in =A73.4 (with the caveats noted above) is the best way =
forward.

Thanks for your consideration.
r.



From nobody Wed Jul 23 08:29:27 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Deprecation of BGP Entropy Label Capability Attribute
        Authors         : John G. Scudder
                          Kireeti Kompella
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.txt
	Pages           : 4
	Date            : 2014-07-23

Abstract:
   RFC 6790 defines the BGP Entropy Label Capability attribute.
   Regrettably, it has a bug: although RFC 6790 mandates that Entropy
   Label-incapable routers must remove the attribute, in practice this
   requirement can't be guaranteed to be fulfilled.  This specification
   deprecates the attribute.  A forthcoming document will propose a
   replacement.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01


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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jul 23 08:34:22 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action:	draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.txt
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This version is explicit about what it means to be "deprecated" since =
history shows not everyone has the same understanding of the term. =
Otherwise unchanged.

Chairs, can we WGLC this draft?

Thanks,

--John

On Jul 23, 2014, at 11:29 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working =
Group of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : Deprecation of BGP Entropy Label Capability =
Attribute
>        Authors         : John G. Scudder
>                          Kireeti Kompella
> 	Filename        : =
draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.txt
> 	Pages           : 4
> 	Date            : 2014-07-23
>=20
> Abstract:
>   RFC 6790 defines the BGP Entropy Label Capability attribute.
>   Regrettably, it has a bug: although RFC 6790 mandates that Entropy
>   Label-incapable routers must remove the attribute, in practice this
>   requirement can't be guaranteed to be fulfilled.  This specification
>   deprecates the attribute.  A forthcoming document will propose a
>   replacement.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-lab=
el/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> =
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-l=
abel-01
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
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> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From nobody Wed Jul 23 08:50:57 2014
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Working Group,

This is to initiate a two week working group last call on
draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.

Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

There are no IPR disclosures against this document. The authors have
stated that they are unware of any IPRs related to this document.

This working group last call ends August 6, 2014.

/Loa
for the MPLS wg chairs
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 23 09:04:58 2014
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Subject: [mpls] English review of MPLS wg documents
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Working Group,

We have been aware of that some documents would benefit from an
English review before we request publication or even before the
wglc.

We have done an English review of one document, the experience is
very good. We now would like to have authors/editors to volunteer
their documents for this type of review.

We would also need to have volunteer reviewers, please tell the wg
chairs if you are willing to be an English language reviewer.
We has asked this before so if you already volunteered we should
have your name listed.

/Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 23 10:00:17 2014
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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group last draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label
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Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label
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Hi all,

> This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-
> deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.

Read & support.

Thanks,
Bruno
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:51 AM
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-
> deprecate-bgp-entropy-label-01.
>=20
> Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>=20
> There are no IPR disclosures against this document. The authors have stat=
ed
> that they are unware of any IPRs related to this document.
>=20
> This working group last call ends August 6, 2014.
>=20
> /Loa
> for the MPLS wg chairs
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From nobody Wed Jul 23 10:54:42 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Gap Analysis for Operating IPv6-only MPLS Networks
        Authors         : Wesley George
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-01.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2014-07-23

Abstract:
   This document reviews the MPLS protocol suite in the context of IPv6
   and identifies gaps that must be addressed in order to allow MPLS-
   related protocols and applications to be used with IPv6-only
   networks.  This document is not intended to highlight a particular
   vendor's implementation (or lack thereof) in the context of IPv6-only
   MPLS functionality, but rather to focus on gaps in the standards
   defining the MPLS suite.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jul 23 14:56:32 2014
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To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Kireeti,

(Responding on-list for completeness - and a reminder to myself.)

On 23 Jul 2014, at 12:54, Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:

>> - I feel that it would be useful to provide some clarification as to =
where we
>> expect entropy to be required for load-sharing in the draft.
>=20
> There are three questions hiding here:
> 1) is ECMP needed with MPLS SPRING (in particular, Adj-SID)?
> Valid question, as ECMP wasn't seen at first as necessary with =
RSVP-TE, which shares intent with Adj-SID. I'd say the answer is Yes.  =
You give an example of why; analogies from the multi path RSVP draft can =
also be used.=20
>=20
> 2) is EL the way to achieve ECMP with MPLS SPRING?
> I sincerely hope so; having two mechanisms in MPLS to enable ECMP =
wouldn't be ideal. But I won't rule out other ways.=20
>=20
> [Your point is taken: laying out (1) and (2) more clearly would help =
the draft.]

rjs> I agree with both points. Let me work to contribute some material =
to expand on the couple of points I raised following the meeting this =
week.

>=20
> 3) Given Yeses to (1) and (2), how?
> That's the current focus of the draft. This part is for now an =
exploration. I agree that at some point, we have to narrow the options =
down to a few (ideally one). This would be an action for vendors, =
knowing their chips, and providers, knowing their requirements to sit =
together and work it out.=20
>=20
> There is an aspect of the draft that hasn't come out, which is along =
the lines of the MPLS forwarding draft, soon to be an RFC: what is the =
best way in the future, given the requirements of SPRING and EL? I.e., =
if you built new chips today, knowing what we know, which option would =
you choose?  Getting a sense of that would help the community to come to =
a common choice for the future -- as someone mentioned, today's =
choices/compromises may end up varying widely vendor-to-vendor.=20

rjs> Agreed =97 if we can determine whether we think that the list of =
options is complete following the exercise of solving (1) and (2), then =
perhaps we can start to address these questions and try to conclude the =
discussions at the next meeting.

Cheers,
r.


From nobody Thu Jul 24 00:21:41 2014
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de Geib" <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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All,

Observing this discussion I have a question why the draft as well as this
discussion is only limited to one solution for efficient load balancing
across parallel links in the network - namely entropy labels ?

Let's observe that unlike in general MPLS label allocation per FEC in
SPRING labels are allocated per much more contained number of segment node
properties.

Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane
all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and
allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flows
to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.

Moreover this solution does not put any additional requirements on MPLS
hardware and can be easily supported today by most of shipping routers.

Best,
r.



On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:31 AM, <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de> wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> I agree, a single ELI/EL deeper in the stack as proposed by =C2=A73.1 is =
the
> most useful target solution also from my point of view.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ruediger
>
> -----Message-----
> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] Rob Shakir
>
> Hi Sri!
>
> [snip]
>
> rjs> Addressing the final goal - as per Stephane's comments - I would lik=
e
> to recommend that we specify =C2=A73.1 as the target option (such that we=
 have a
> single ELI/EL deeper in the stack) as the "ideal" option. It then seems t=
o
> me that a debate as to whether the forwarding behaviour in =C2=A73.3 is p=
ossible
> with most h/w today (both mean that either we change the number of
> operations that are required on a forwarding device when popping/swapping
> labels as far as I can see), or whether the approach in =C2=A73.4 (with t=
he
> caveats noted above) is the best way forward.
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
> r.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

--90e6ba614c6465f3fa04feeb4ee3
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">All,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sma=
ll">
Observing this discussion I have a question why the draft as well as this d=
iscussion is only limited to one solution for efficient load balancing acro=
ss parallel links in the network - namely entropy labels ?=C2=A0</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-siz=
e:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,mon=
ospace;font-size:small">Let&#39;s observe that unlike in general MPLS label=
 allocation per FEC in SPRING labels are allocated per much more contained =
number of segment node properties.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">Therefor an alternative of using any =
form of entropy labels in data plane all together would be to allocate a SI=
D blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allow SPRING header imposition to use suc=
h pools of SIDs per group of flows to effectively allow for efficient load =
balancing in the network.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">Moreover this solution does not put a=
ny additional requirements on MPLS hardware and can be easily supported tod=
ay by most of shipping routers.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
ourier new,monospace;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">
r.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monos=
pace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:31 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" target=3D"_blank">Ruedige=
r.Geib@telekom.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Rob,<br>
<br>
I agree, a single ELI/EL deeper in the stack as proposed by =C2=A73.1 is th=
e most useful target solution also from my point of view.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Ruediger<br>
<br>
-----Message-----<br>
From: spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org">spring-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>] Rob Shakir<br>
<br>
Hi Sri!<br>
<br>
[snip]<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
rjs&gt; Addressing the final goal - as per Stephane&#39;s comments - I woul=
d like to recommend that we specify =C2=A73.1 as the target option (such th=
at we have a single ELI/EL deeper in the stack) as the &quot;ideal&quot; op=
tion. It then seems to me that a debate as to whether the forwarding behavi=
our in =C2=A73.3 is possible with most h/w today (both mean that either we =
change the number of operations that are required on a forwarding device wh=
en popping/swapping labels as far as I can see), or whether the approach in=
 =C2=A73.4 (with the caveats noted above) is the best way forward.<br>

<br>
Thanks for your consideration.<br>
r.<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--90e6ba614c6465f3fa04feeb4ee3--


From nobody Thu Jul 24 03:35:09 2014
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From: "Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)" <venggovi@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: BFD Directed Path discussion
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Subject: Re: [mpls] BFD Directed Path discussion
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Hello Greg,

Thanks for your note, a couple of clarifications here:
>how this work is related to Extended BFD Discriminator TLV work? Both may =
be complementary, especially as parts of controlling BFD >session. Would we=
lcome authors of Extended BFD Discriminator TLV to discussion and review dr=
aft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext >and draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-t=
p-oam-conf drafts (authors are planning to bring them over the finish line)
a. Are you suggesting that we add sub-TLVs to convey the instance identifie=
r [1] inside the BFD configuration sub-TLV of both MPLS LSP ping [2] and th=
e RSVP TE OAM [3] messages?
b. Are you considering the addition of BFD reverse-path TLV [4] as well to =
the LSP ping and RSVP-TE OAM messages?=20

Thanks
Prasad
[1] draft-vgovindan-mpls-extended-bfd-disc-tlv
[2] draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-06
[3] draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-12
[4] draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-00


From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Mirsky
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:27 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: BFD Directed Path discussion

Dear All,
on behalf of the authors of this work I thank you all who participated in t=
he discussions Monday (BFD WG) and today (MPLS WG). Great comments and sugg=
estions - very excited by your interest in this work.
I've tried to capture summary of the comments and sketch possible ways to a=
ddress these:
. BFD Return Path TLV suitable for RFC 5880, what about S-BFD?
In order to maintain stateless character of S-BFDReflector, S-BFD control p=
acket may need to carry return path information. Need to discuss with autho=
rs of S-BFD Base and start work on S-BFD over MPLS LSP with IP and ACH enca=
psulations;
. What would happen if Return Path conveyed to the far-end BFD peer is not =
available? Ingress may send another BFD Return Path in its TLV along with t=
he same BFD Discriminator;
. Can BFD Echo of RFC 5880 be used in conjunction with the BFD Return Path =
TLV over MPLS LSP? It may be interesting as BFD Echo already allows for a p=
ayload but work on proper handling and encapsulations of BFD Echo is needed=
. Besides, use of BFD Echo over MPLS LSP may be limited to single segment L=
SPs thus S-BFD may be more generic mechanism to have stateless far-end BFD =
peer;
. how this work is related to Extended BFD Discriminator TLV work? Both may=
 be complementary, especially as parts of controlling BFD session. Would we=
lcome authors of Extended BFD Discriminator TLV to discussion and review dr=
aft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext and draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp=
-oam-conf drafts (authors are planning to bring them over the finish line)

Please excuse me if I've missed your question and please add it to this dis=
cussion.

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards,
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg


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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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IMHO,
> 1) is ECMP needed with MPLS SPRING (in particular, Adj-SID)?
Yes it is ... SPRING brings more flexibility in ECMP for TE tunnels than RS=
VP-TE does. And ECMP with Bundle-Adj-SID is something really useful when a =
Service Provider is using parallel ECMP links rather than LAGs.

>2) is EL the way to achieve ECMP with MPLS SPRING?
I would also agree that having two mechanism would be bad from an operation=
al point of view.
Entropy label is not new at IETF, but new in deployment (feature availabili=
ty is something really recent). If SP that have deployed Entropy for loadba=
lancing flows needs to move to something else for their SR-TE tunnels, well=
 ... sounds a bad thing ...
Moreover entropy label has the magic of keeping loadbalancing stateless whi=
ch is a pretty good advantage compared to adding more states at Ingress jus=
t for loadbalancing.


Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rob Shakir
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 17:56
To: Kireeti Kompella
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@to=
ols.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label

Hi Kireeti,

(Responding on-list for completeness - and a reminder to myself.)

On 23 Jul 2014, at 12:54, Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:

>> - I feel that it would be useful to provide some clarification as to=20
>> where we expect entropy to be required for load-sharing in the draft.
>=20
> There are three questions hiding here:
> 1) is ECMP needed with MPLS SPRING (in particular, Adj-SID)?
> Valid question, as ECMP wasn't seen at first as necessary with RSVP-TE, w=
hich shares intent with Adj-SID. I'd say the answer is Yes.  You give an ex=
ample of why; analogies from the multi path RSVP draft can also be used.=20
>=20
> 2) is EL the way to achieve ECMP with MPLS SPRING?
> I sincerely hope so; having two mechanisms in MPLS to enable ECMP wouldn'=
t be ideal. But I won't rule out other ways.=20
>=20
> [Your point is taken: laying out (1) and (2) more clearly would help=20
> the draft.]

rjs> I agree with both points. Let me work to contribute some material to e=
xpand on the couple of points I raised following the meeting this week.

>=20
> 3) Given Yeses to (1) and (2), how?
> That's the current focus of the draft. This part is for now an exploratio=
n. I agree that at some point, we have to narrow the options down to a few =
(ideally one). This would be an action for vendors, knowing their chips, an=
d providers, knowing their requirements to sit together and work it out.=20
>=20
> There is an aspect of the draft that hasn't come out, which is along the =
lines of the MPLS forwarding draft, soon to be an RFC: what is the best way=
 in the future, given the requirements of SPRING and EL? I.e., if you built=
 new chips today, knowing what we know, which option would you choose?  Get=
ting a sense of that would help the community to come to a common choice fo=
r the future -- as someone mentioned, today's choices/compromises may end u=
p varying widely vendor-to-vendor.=20

rjs> Agreed - if we can determine whether we think that the list of options=
 is complete following the exercise of solving (1) and (2), then perhaps we=
 can start to address these questions and try to conclude the discussions a=
t the next meeting.

Cheers,
r.

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From nobody Thu Jul 24 05:13:04 2014
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From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:12:52 +0000
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Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--_000_083ECD6FD7B54AFC806619BD2B7E563Bjunipernet_
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Hi Robert,

On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net<mailto:robert@=
raszuk.net>> wrote:

Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allo=
w SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flows to =
effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.

We=92re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.

Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed advertisin=
g label blocks in LDP.  There are two problems:
a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose more s=
tate in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane).
b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use large=
 blocks, you blow up the state more.

Kireeti


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252">
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e-break: after-white-space;">
Hi Robert,
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert=
@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: nor=
mal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orph=
ans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white=
-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:=
 0px; font-family: 'courier new', monospace; font-size: small;">
Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allo=
w SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flows to =
effectively allow for efficient
 load balancing in the network.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>We=92re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed adver=
tising label blocks in LDP. &nbsp;There are two problems:</div>
<div>a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose m=
ore state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane=
).</div>
<div>b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use =
large blocks, you blow up the state more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kireeti</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_083ECD6FD7B54AFC806619BD2B7E563Bjunipernet_--


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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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(resending; sorry for the spam)

Hi Robert,

On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data =
plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 =
wide) and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per =
group of flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the =
network.

We=92re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.

Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed =
advertising label blocks in LDP.  There are two problems:
a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose =
more state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control =
plane).
b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use =
large blocks, you blow up the state more.

Kireeti=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div>(resending; sorry for the =
spam)</div><div><br></div>Hi Robert,<div><br><div><div>On Jul 24, 2014, =
at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: =
'courier new', monospace; font-size: small;">Therefor an alternative of =
using any form of entropy labels in data plane all together would be to =
allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allow SPRING header =
imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flows to effectively =
allow for efficient load balancing in the =
network.</div></blockquote><br></div><div>We=92re rehashing (pun =
unintended) the entropy label =
discussion.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Before we settled on entropy =
labels the way we did, we discussed advertising label blocks in LDP. =
&nbsp;There are two problems:</div><div>a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are =
stateless, but pools of SIDs impose more state in the forwarding plane =
(and to some extent, in the control plane).</div><div>b) if you use =
small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use large blocks, =
you blow up the state =
more.</div><div><br></div><div>Kireeti</div></body></html>=

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Kireeti,

I quite disagree about the more state argument.

If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down to
there is no more state either in data or control plane.

As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your hash
function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max
parallel links on any interface you should be fine.

Best ,
R.
On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:

>  Hi Robert,
>
>  On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>  Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data
> plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide)
> and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of
> flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.
>
>
>  We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.
>
>  Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed
> advertising label blocks in LDP.  There are two problems:
> a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose more
> state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane).
> b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use
> large blocks, you blow up the state more.
>
>  Kireeti
>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Hi Kireeti,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I quite disagree about the more state argument.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all thi=
s boils down to there is no more state either in data or control plane.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends=
 on your hash function. If you always advertise at least as big block as yo=
u have max parallel links on any interface you should be fine. </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Best ,<br>
R.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, &quot;Kireeti Kompella&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net">kireeti@juniper.net</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Hi Robert,
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert=
@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal=
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">

Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allo=
w SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flows to =
effectively allow for efficient
 load balancing in the network.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.=
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed adver=
tising label blocks in LDP. =C2=A0There are two problems:</div>
<div>a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose m=
ore state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane=
).</div>
<div>b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use =
large blocks, you blow up the state more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kireeti</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--089e0122a75419f2fd04feefdffe--


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To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08297278NKGEML512MBSchi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Concur.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Xiaohu</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF360540"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> mpls [mpls-bounces@iet=
f.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kireeti Kompella [kireeti@juniper.net]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2014=C4=EA7=D4=C224=C8=D5 20:12<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; draf=
t-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>Hi Robert,
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert=
@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT: small 'courier =
new',monospace; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px" class=3D"gmail_default">
Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allo=
w SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flows to =
effectively allow for efficient
 load balancing in the network.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>We=A1=AFre rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.</d=
iv>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed adver=
tising label blocks in LDP. &nbsp;There are two problems:</div>
<div>a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose m=
ore state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane=
).</div>
<div>b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use =
large blocks, you blow up the state more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kireeti</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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--_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08297278NKGEML512MBSchi_--


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)" <venggovi@cisco.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: BFD Directed Path discussion
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:26:55 +0000
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References: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7F279F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <315041E4211CB84E86EF7C25A2AB583D34639107@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] BFD Directed Path discussion
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Hi Greg, Prasad, et al,

Great to see this being discussed. Adding CCAMP and authors of both documen=
ts.

Speaking as a BFD WG co-chair ...

> [1] draft-vgovindan-mpls-extended-bfd-disc-tlv
> [4] draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-00

Regarding above 2 documents, details should be discussed further but the ne=
eds of both look valid. However, we should not lead down the path of having=
 more and more BFD bootstrapping TLVs, but have/aim-for one TLV that allows=
 Sub-TLVs for extensions.

> [2] draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-06

Above document is dead.
IETF State: Dead WG Document

> [3] draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-12

Above document is already LC'ed (long ago).
IETF State:  Submitted to IESG for Publication=20

My best guess is that we do not want to disrupt/block [3] at this point.

Question to authors of [1] and [4].

Are you interested to change LSP Ping bootstrapping only? If so, then it se=
ems the authors of [1] and [4] need to get together and come up with a sing=
le BFD bootstrapping TLV (given that [2] is dead).

Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:35 AM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> Subject: RE: BFD Directed Path discussion
>=20
> Hello Greg,
>=20
> Thanks for your note, a couple of clarifications here:
> >how this work is related to Extended BFD Discriminator TLV work? Both
> >may be complementary, especially as parts of controlling BFD >session.
> >Would welcome authors of Extended BFD Discriminator TLV to discussion
> >and review draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext >and
> >draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf drafts (authors are planning
> >to bring them over the finish line)
> a. Are you suggesting that we add sub-TLVs to convey the instance identif=
ier
> [1] inside the BFD configuration sub-TLV of both MPLS LSP ping [2] and th=
e
> RSVP TE OAM [3] messages?
> b. Are you considering the addition of BFD reverse-path TLV [4] as well t=
o
> the LSP ping and RSVP-TE OAM messages?
>=20
> Thanks
> Prasad
> [1] draft-vgovindan-mpls-extended-bfd-disc-tlv
> [2] draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-06
> [3] draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-12
> [4] draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-00
>=20
>=20
> From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gregory
> Mirsky
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:27 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> Subject: BFD Directed Path discussion
>=20
> Dear All,
> on behalf of the authors of this work I thank you all who participated in=
 the
> discussions Monday (BFD WG) and today (MPLS WG). Great comments and
> suggestions - very excited by your interest in this work.
> I've tried to capture summary of the comments and sketch possible ways to
> address these:
> . BFD Return Path TLV suitable for RFC 5880, what about S-BFD?
> In order to maintain stateless character of S-BFDReflector, S-BFD control
> packet may need to carry return path information. Need to discuss with
> authors of S-BFD Base and start work on S-BFD over MPLS LSP with IP and
> ACH encapsulations; . What would happen if Return Path conveyed to the
> far-end BFD peer is not available? Ingress may send another BFD Return
> Path in its TLV along with the same BFD Discriminator; . Can BFD Echo of =
RFC
> 5880 be used in conjunction with the BFD Return Path TLV over MPLS LSP? I=
t
> may be interesting as BFD Echo already allows for a payload but work on
> proper handling and encapsulations of BFD Echo is needed. Besides, use of
> BFD Echo over MPLS LSP may be limited to single segment LSPs thus S-BFD
> may be more generic mechanism to have stateless far-end BFD peer; . how
> this work is related to Extended BFD Discriminator TLV work? Both may be
> complementary, especially as parts of controlling BFD session. Would
> welcome authors of Extended BFD Discriminator TLV to discussion and
> review draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext and draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-
> ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf drafts (authors are planning to bring them over the
> finish line)
>=20
> Please excuse me if I've missed your question and please add it to this
> discussion.
>=20
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards,
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg


From nobody Thu Jul 24 08:26:09 2014
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:23:57 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>,  "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,  draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org
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Subject: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Working Group,

The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.

It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
necessary, with less than that they have new information.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
lsp-ping?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list, 
then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:34:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Loa,

I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.

[please note you list a different draft in your question below, but I
assume that is a typo]

Thanks,

Carlos.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:23 AM
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
<mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux
<martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
"draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org"
<draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>, Wes George
<wesley.george@twcable.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson
<loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Martin Vigoureux
<martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Resent-Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM

>Working Group,
>
>The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
>wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.
>
>It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
>draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
>poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
>necessary, with less than that they have new information.
>
>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
>lsp-ping?
>
>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
>If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list,
>then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>Thanks, Loa
>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Thu Jul 24 09:08:53 2014
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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Hi Loa,

I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.

Dhruv (Contributing Author)

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
> wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.
>
> It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
> draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
> poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
> necessary, with less than that they have new information.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
> lsp-ping?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
> If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list, then
> please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Thu Jul 24 09:28:59 2014
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:29:04 +0200
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Carlos,

tnx - yes I made a copy past mistake (again :( ),
the document we are asking about is  draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.

/Loa

On 2014-07-24 17:34, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
> Loa,
>
> I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.
>
> [please note you list a different draft in your question below, but I
> assume that is a typo]
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carlos.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:23 AM
> To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
> <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux
> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
> "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org"
> <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
> Subject: Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
> Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>, Wes George
> <wesley.george@twcable.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson
> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Martin Vigoureux
> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
> Resent-Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM
>
>> Working Group,
>>
>> The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
>> wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.
>>
>> It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
>> draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
>> poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
>> necessary, with less than that they have new information.
>>
>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
>> lsp-ping?
>>
>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>
>> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>
>> If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list,
>> then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>
>> Thanks, Loa
>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>> --
>>
>>
>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Thu Jul 24 09:46:23 2014
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From nobody Thu Jul 24 09:54:23 2014
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:54:14 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0115ebd0855d4304fef34e99
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/hJQ30o5vN9UVz6FQkxb1QXcapYI
Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--089e0115ebd0855d4304fef34e99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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Stephane,

This has NOTHING TO DO with IPv6. I am not even sure based on what you draw
such strange conclusion ....

I am talking pure about MPLS data plane (even without any IP above) and how
we can solve the load balancing problems.

At min I expect for any discussion to be valid to discuss and compare all
options.

Note also that SPRING does not use LDP so I am much less interested in
solving the LDP load balancing issues.

Rgs,
R.



On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 6:46 PM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:

>  Robert,
>
>
>
> Talking MPLS, I don=E2=80=99t see a way to use MPLS label =E2=80=9Cprefix=
=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6 this is a
> discussion we already had together. I think you are trying to sell IPv6 S=
R
> that I will unfortunately not buy again J
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 08:48
> *To:* Kireeti Kompella
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
>
>
>
> Hi Kireeti,
>
> I quite disagree about the more state argument.
>
> If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down
> to there is no more state either in data or control plane.
>
> As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your hash
> function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max
> parallel links on any interface you should be fine.
>
> Best ,
> R.
>
> On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>  Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data
> plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide)
> and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of
> flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.
>
>
>
> We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.
>
>
>
> Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed
> advertising label blocks in LDP.  There are two problems:
>
> a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose more
> state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane).
>
> b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use
> large blocks, you blow up the state more.
>
>
>
> Kireeti
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
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> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>

--089e0115ebd0855d4304fef34e99
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Stephane,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-siz=
e:small">
This has NOTHING TO DO with IPv6. I am not even sure based on what you draw=
 such strange conclusion ....=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:sma=
ll">
I am talking pure about MPLS data plane (even without any IP above) and how=
 we can solve the load balancing problems.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;=
font-size:small">
At min I expect for any discussion to be valid to discuss and compare all o=
ptions.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courie=
r new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">
Note also that SPRING does not use LDP so I am much less interested in solv=
ing the LDP load balancing issues.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-siz=
e:small">
Rgs,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,mon=
ospace;font-size:small">R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 6:46 PM,  <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"=
_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">






<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Robert,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Talking MPLS, I don=E2=80=
=99t see a way to use MPLS label =E2=80=9Cprefix=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6 this is=
 a discussion we already had together. I think you are trying to sell IPv6 =
SR that I will
 unfortunately not buy again </span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> spring [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-=
bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 08:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Kireeti Kompella<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org<=
/a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org</a><=
br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Hi Kireeti,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I quite disagree about the more state argument.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down=
 to there is no more state either in data or control plane.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p>As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your has=
h function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max p=
arallel links on any interface you should be fine.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Best ,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, &quot;Kireeti Kompella&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juni=
per.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Robert, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and allo=
w SPRING header imposition to use such pools of
 SIDs per group of flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing =
in the network.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy=
 label discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, =
we discussed advertising label blocks in LDP. =C2=A0There are two problems:=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pool=
s of SIDs impose more state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in=
 the control plane).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load bala=
ncing; if you use large blocks, you blow up the state more.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kireeti<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e0115ebd0855d4304fef34e99--


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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
Thread-Index: AQHPpop+sk+mL1pXdkKUVhjrFSzu1puuo0mAgAAN5ACAAFFmAIAACegAgABjfaD//+E4AIAAI60A
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:05:51 +0000
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Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:23:46 +0200
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Message-ID: <CA+b+ERkee4ThdyzRrhsg0F3HqdnUvJkfs+wn6LHedUHd53UqJA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
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Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, spring@ietf.org, "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi,

That is also solved problem ;)

We already know how to encode label offset. Using the same encoding you can
treat offset value as number of significant bits within the 20 bit label.

We do not need to extend this to current label use cases. Hence there is no
issue with backwards compatibility.

Very basic and simple ;)

Cheers,
R.
On Jul 24, 2014 7:05 PM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:

>  Robert,
>
>
>
> From a practical point of view , how do  you represent such MPLS label
> range with a prefix ?
>
> [70, 170]
>
> [17, 69]
>
>
>
> MPLS was not designed for =E2=80=9Clabel aggregation=E2=80=9D scheme =E2=
=80=A6
>
> Or we need to change of labels are allocated from the label space for all
> label consumers =E2=80=A6 to permit this aggregation.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:54
> *To:* LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
> *Cc:* Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
>
>
>
> Stephane,
>
>
>
> This has NOTHING TO DO with IPv6. I am not even sure based on what you
> draw such strange conclusion ....
>
>
>
> I am talking pure about MPLS data plane (even without any IP above) and
> how we can solve the load balancing problems.
>
>
>
> At min I expect for any discussion to be valid to discuss and compare all
> options.
>
>
>
> Note also that SPRING does not use LDP so I am much less interested in
> solving the LDP load balancing issues.
>
>
>
> Rgs,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 6:46 PM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
>
>
> Talking MPLS, I don=E2=80=99t see a way to use MPLS label =E2=80=9Cprefix=
=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6 this is a
> discussion we already had together. I think you are trying to sell IPv6 S=
R
> that I will unfortunately not buy again J
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 08:48
> *To:* Kireeti Kompella
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
>
>
>
> Hi Kireeti,
>
> I quite disagree about the more state argument.
>
> If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down
> to there is no more state either in data or control plane.
>
> As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your hash
> function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max
> parallel links on any interface you should be fine.
>
> Best ,
> R.
>
> On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane
> all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and
> allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flo=
ws
> to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.
>
>
>
> We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.
>
>
>
> Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed
> advertising label blocks in LDP.  There are two problems:
>
> a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose more
> state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane).
>
> b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use
> large blocks, you blow up the state more.
>
>
>
> Kireeti
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
>
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
>
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>

--90e6ba6e87a6288e1404fef3b86c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<p dir=3D"ltr">Hi,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">That is also solved problem ;)</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">We already know how to encode label offset. Using the same e=
ncoding you can treat offset value as number of significant bits within the=
 20 bit label.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">We do not need to extend this to current label use cases. He=
nce there is no issue with backwards compatibility.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Very basic and simple ;)</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,<br>
R.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 24, 2014 7:05 PM,  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
stephane.litkowski@orange.com">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">






<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Robert,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">From a practical point of=
 view , how do=C2=A0 you represent such MPLS label range with a prefix ?<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[70, 170]<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[17, 69]<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">MPLS was not designed for=
 =E2=80=9Clabel aggregation=E2=80=9D scheme =E2=80=A6<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Or we need to change of l=
abels are allocated from the label space for all label consumers =E2=80=A6 =
to permit this aggregation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=
=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com=
</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:54<br>
<b>To:</b> LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kireeti Kompella; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mpls@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-lab=
el@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@t=
ools.ietf.org</a><br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Stephane,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
This has NOTHING TO DO with IPv6. I am not even sure based on what you draw=
 such strange conclusion ....=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
I am talking pure about MPLS data plane (even without any IP above) and how=
 we can solve the load balancing problems.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
At min I expect for any discussion to be valid to discuss and compare all o=
ptions.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Note also that SPRING does not use LDP so I am much less interested in solv=
ing the LDP load balancing issues.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Rgs,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
R.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 6:46 PM, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@oran=
ge.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Robert,</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Talking MPLS, I don=E2=80=
=99t see a way to use MPLS label =E2=80=9Cprefix=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6 this is=
 a discussion we already had
 together. I think you are trying to sell IPv6 SR that I will unfortunately=
 not buy again
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d"=
>J</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> spring [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-=
bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 08:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Kireeti Kompella<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label=
@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Hi Kireeti,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I quite disagree about the more state argument.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down=
 to there is no more state either in data or control plane.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p>As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your has=
h function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max p=
arallel links on any interface you should be fine.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Best ,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, &quot;Kireeti Kompella&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juni=
per.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Robert,
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide)
 and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of =
flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy=
 label discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, =
we discussed advertising label blocks in LDP. =C2=A0There are two problems:=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pool=
s of SIDs impose more state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in=
 the control plane).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load bala=
ncing; if you use large blocks, you blow up the state more.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kireeti<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
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From nobody Thu Jul 24 10:39:26 2014
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:39:14 +0000
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Cc: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" <draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Subject: [mpls] Heads up - planned Area re-org
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FYI -
This afternoon in the rtgarea meeting, our ADs will be discussing their 
plan to reorg the Routing Area. It's our understanding, MPLS will be 
impacted.

If interested, it's Session II, Ontario.

/Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Thu Jul 24 11:31:51 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Robert,

On 24 Jul 2014, at 03:21, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

>=20
> Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data =
plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 =
wide) and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per =
group of flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the =
network.

Sorry, maybe I=92m missing something here, but I found your message a =
little cryptic.

=46rom what I comprehend, you are saying that we define that a single =
SID maps to N labels. These labels are split somehow into a =93forwarding=94=
 and =93hash=94 value. Simplistically, this could say that we have the =
first 12 bits as the =93forwarding=94 and the bottom 8 as the =93hash=94 =
value.=20

e.g. Node A advertises an Adj-SID with value 0b00000101000 (40), =
anything that is in the range 0b0000010100000000000 (10240) - =
0b0000010100011111111 (10495) has the same forwarding behaviour, but the =
last 8 bits are used to hash (allowing 256 different hash-able objects).

If I understood right - then this seems to have a number of challenges =
to me:

- For Node-SIDs, we now must sterilise the SRGB to be as wide as (number =
of required entries)*(number of hash-able objects required) - which =
means that we must be able to determine a label block that can be used =
for this.
- We reduce the size of the label space from 20-bits to a smaller value =
- this might be a material concern in cases where we have many other =
labels that are allocated on a device (per-prefix label allocation =
within an L3VPN environment that has many prefixes might be a concern?).
- We need every device in the network to comprehend this new format of =
label allocation and imposition - such that we do not increase the =
number of forwarding entries that are required (as Stephane and Kireeti =
have observed). This is problematic where we have limited LFIB already =
since instead of programming a number of LFIB entries O(the number of =
labelled endpoints) then we instead need to have O(number of labelled =
endpoints * number of hashable objects).

Equally, I think the assertion that you have made is that deeper EL is =
not =93easily supported by most of [today=92s] shipping routers=94. I =
think that we need to determine whether this is really the case =97 =
given that MPLS WG has standardised EL we need to figure *why* a change =
from this is required =97 which is (I guess) the intention of the draft =
we=92re discussing here. *If* we conclude that none of the options that =
are presented using existing technology are suitable, then potentially =
then we can look at new solutions.

If my reading of your mail is completely whacky, then please ignore the =
above - and a clarifying example would be greatly appreciated.

thx,
r.


From nobody Thu Jul 24 11:42:16 2014
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From: <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 08:31:49 +0200
Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Rob,

I agree, a single ELI/EL deeper in the stack as proposed by =A73.1 is the m=
ost useful target solution also from my point of view.

Regards,

Ruediger

-----Message-----
From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] Rob Shakir

Hi Sri!

[snip]

rjs> Addressing the final goal - as per Stephane's comments - I would like =
to recommend that we specify =A73.1 as the target option (such that we have=
 a single ELI/EL deeper in the stack) as the "ideal" option. It then seems =
to me that a debate as to whether the forwarding behaviour in =A73.3 is pos=
sible with most h/w today (both mean that either we change the number of op=
erations that are required on a forwarding device when popping/swapping lab=
els as far as I can see), or whether the approach in =A73.4 (with the cavea=
ts noted above) is the best way forward.

Thanks for your consideration.
r.


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Rob,

I see your interpretation and where it could be confusing. You have clearly
went beyond my boldest intentions :)

> From what I comprehend, you are saying that we define
> that a single SID maps to N labels.

Nope. That is perhaps key difference.

My proposal is that node advertises block of Node-SIDs which in turn map
1:1 to MPLS labels. The block of Node-SIDs as as big as largest expected
number of parallel links.

/* There is no harm in wrong estimation as simply you will just readvertise
larger or smaller block */

While this could be accomplished today and may work fine in number of
deployments as is there is clear opportunity for optimization. That say
that SID block can be represented as prefix so naturally corresponding to
it MPLS labels.

That said there are two things missing ...

* fundamental the SR architecture does not accommodate that
* MPLS data plane can be optimized to reduce number of LFIB entries.

And that's it. How you use it seems just natural both on ingress as well as
on the transit nodes.

Best,
r.






On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> On 24 Jul 2014, at 03:21, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data
> plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide)
> and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of
> flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.
>
> Sorry, maybe I=E2=80=99m missing something here, but I found your message=
 a little
> cryptic.
>
> From what I comprehend, you are saying that we define that a single SID
> maps to N labels. These labels are split somehow into a =E2=80=9Cforwardi=
ng=E2=80=9D and
> =E2=80=9Chash=E2=80=9D value. Simplistically, this could say that we have=
 the first 12 bits
> as the =E2=80=9Cforwarding=E2=80=9D and the bottom 8 as the =E2=80=9Chash=
=E2=80=9D value.
>
> e.g. Node A advertises an Adj-SID with value 0b00000101000 (40), anything
> that is in the range 0b0000010100000000000 (10240) - 0b000001010001111111=
1
> (10495) has the same forwarding behaviour, but the last 8 bits are used t=
o
> hash (allowing 256 different hash-able objects).
>
> If I understood right - then this seems to have a number of challenges to
> me:
>
> - For Node-SIDs, we now must sterilise the SRGB to be as wide as (number
> of required entries)*(number of hash-able objects required) - which means
> that we must be able to determine a label block that can be used for this=
.
> - We reduce the size of the label space from 20-bits to a smaller value -
> this might be a material concern in cases where we have many other labels
> that are allocated on a device (per-prefix label allocation within an L3V=
PN
> environment that has many prefixes might be a concern?).
> - We need every device in the network to comprehend this new format of
> label allocation and imposition - such that we do not increase the number
> of forwarding entries that are required (as Stephane and Kireeti have
> observed). This is problematic where we have limited LFIB already since
> instead of programming a number of LFIB entries O(the number of labelled
> endpoints) then we instead need to have O(number of labelled endpoints *
> number of hashable objects).
>
> Equally, I think the assertion that you have made is that deeper EL is no=
t
> =E2=80=9Ceasily supported by most of [today=E2=80=99s] shipping routers=
=E2=80=9D. I think that we
> need to determine whether this is really the case =E2=80=94 given that MP=
LS WG has
> standardised EL we need to figure *why* a change from this is required =
=E2=80=94
> which is (I guess) the intention of the draft we=E2=80=99re discussing he=
re. *If*
> we conclude that none of the options that are presented using existing
> technology are suitable, then potentially then we can look at new solutio=
ns.
>
> If my reading of your mail is completely whacky, then please ignore the
> above - and a clarifying example would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thx,
> r.
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Hi Rob,</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:smal=
l"><br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#3=
9;,monospace;font-size:small">I see your interpretation and where it could =
be confusing. You have clearly went beyond my boldest intentions :)=C2=A0</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;=
,monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, mon=
ospace">&gt; From what I comprehend, you are saying that we define=C2=A0</f=
ont></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, mon=
ospace">&gt; that a single SID maps to N labels.</font><br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospa=
ce"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"couri=
er new, monospace">Nope. That is perhaps key difference.=C2=A0</font></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style>
<font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">My proposal is that no=
de advertises block of Node-SIDs which in turn map 1:1 to MPLS labels. The =
block of Node-SIDs as as big as largest expected number of parallel links.=
=C2=A0</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">/* There is no harm in wrong estimation as simply you will jus=
t readvertise larger or smaller block */</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">While this could be accomplished today and may work fine in nu=
mber of deployments as is there is clear opportunity for optimization. That=
 say that SID block can be represented as prefix so naturally corresponding=
 to it MPLS labels.=C2=A0</font></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><b=
r></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new=
, monospace">That said there are two things missing ...=C2=A0</font></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style>
<font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">* fundamental the SR=
=C2=A0architecture=C2=A0does not=C2=A0accommodate=C2=A0that</font></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style>
<font face=3D"courier new, monospace">* MPLS data plane can be optimized to=
 reduce number of LFIB entries.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle><font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style>
<font face=3D"courier new, monospace">And that&#39;s it. How you use it see=
ms just natural both on ingress as well as on the transit nodes.</font></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">=
<br>
</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=3D"courier new, =
monospace">Best,</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><font face=
=3D"courier new, monospace">r.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le><br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style><br></div></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 24, =
2014 at 8:31 PM, Rob Shakir <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rjs@rob=
.sh" target=3D"_blank">rjs@rob.sh</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Robert,<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
On 24 Jul 2014, at 03:21, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk=
.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data pl=
ane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and=
 allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flow=
s to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.<br>

<br>
</div>Sorry, maybe I=E2=80=99m missing something here, but I found your mes=
sage a little cryptic.<br>
<br>
>From what I comprehend, you are saying that we define that a single SID map=
s to N labels. These labels are split somehow into a =E2=80=9Cforwarding=E2=
=80=9D and =E2=80=9Chash=E2=80=9D value. Simplistically, this could say tha=
t we have the first 12 bits as the =E2=80=9Cforwarding=E2=80=9D and the bot=
tom 8 as the =E2=80=9Chash=E2=80=9D value.<br>

<br>
e.g. Node A advertises an Adj-SID with value 0b00000101000 (40), anything t=
hat is in the range 0b0000010100000000000 (10240) - 0b0000010100011111111 (=
10495) has the same forwarding behaviour, but the last 8 bits are used to h=
ash (allowing 256 different hash-able objects).<br>

<br>
If I understood right - then this seems to have a number of challenges to m=
e:<br>
<br>
- For Node-SIDs, we now must sterilise the SRGB to be as wide as (number of=
 required entries)*(number of hash-able objects required) - which means tha=
t we must be able to determine a label block that can be used for this.<br>

- We reduce the size of the label space from 20-bits to a smaller value - t=
his might be a material concern in cases where we have many other labels th=
at are allocated on a device (per-prefix label allocation within an L3VPN e=
nvironment that has many prefixes might be a concern?).<br>

- We need every device in the network to comprehend this new format of labe=
l allocation and imposition - such that we do not increase the number of fo=
rwarding entries that are required (as Stephane and Kireeti have observed).=
 This is problematic where we have limited LFIB already since instead of pr=
ogramming a number of LFIB entries O(the number of labelled endpoints) then=
 we instead need to have O(number of labelled endpoints * number of hashabl=
e objects).<br>

<br>
Equally, I think the assertion that you have made is that deeper EL is not =
=E2=80=9Ceasily supported by most of [today=E2=80=99s] shipping routers=E2=
=80=9D. I think that we need to determine whether this is really the case =
=E2=80=94 given that MPLS WG has standardised EL we need to figure *why* a =
change from this is required =E2=80=94 which is (I guess) the intention of =
the draft we=E2=80=99re discussing here. *If* we conclude that none of the =
options that are presented using existing technology are suitable, then pot=
entially then we can look at new solutions.<br>

<br>
If my reading of your mail is completely whacky, then please ignore the abo=
ve - and a clarifying example would be greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
thx,<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">r.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e0122a754e913d004fef6331c--


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Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Working Group,

This is to initiate a two week working group last call on
draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-01.

Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

There are no IPR disclosures against this document. The authors have
stated that they are unaware of any IPRs related to this document.

This working group last call ends August 8, 2014..

We have requested a routing area directorate review that has the same
target date.

/Loa
for the MPLS wg chairs

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--001a113328f2e568cf04fef66161
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Hi,

 > We already know how to encode label offset.
>
> Are you referring to Segment Index as offset  of label base ?
>

=E2=80=8BNo.=E2=80=8B SI is already defined for different use. I am describ=
ing general
concept how we could indicate in 5 bits the number of significant (for
forwarding) bits in MPLS label.

 > Using the same encoding you can treat offset value as number of
> significant bits within the 20 bit label.
>
>  Could you give an example  of lookup and forwarding structure for your
> label range/label prefix ? I see something possible but I still have an
> issue with the lookup structure.
>


=E2=80=8BThe lookup is trivial as there is no LPM needed. You simply do par=
tial
match on your mpls labels in the LFIB.

thx,
R.








>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 13:24
> *To:* LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
> *Cc:* Kireeti Kompella; spring@ietf.org;
> draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> That is also solved problem ;)
>
> We already know how to encode label offset. Using the same encoding you
> can treat offset value as number of significant bits within the 20 bit
> label.
>
> We do not need to extend this to current label use cases. Hence there is
> no issue with backwards compatibility.
>
> Very basic and simple ;)
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
> On Jul 24, 2014 7:05 PM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
>
>
> From a practical point of view , how do  you represent such MPLS label
> range with a prefix ?
>
> [70, 170]
>
> [17, 69]
>
>
>
> MPLS was not designed for =E2=80=9Clabel aggregation=E2=80=9D scheme =E2=
=80=A6
>
> Or we need to change of labels are allocated from the label space for all
> label consumers =E2=80=A6 to permit this aggregation.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:54
> *To:* LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
> *Cc:* Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
>
>
>
> Stephane,
>
>
>
> This has NOTHING TO DO with IPv6. I am not even sure based on what you
> draw such strange conclusion ....
>
>
>
> I am talking pure about MPLS data plane (even without any IP above) and
> how we can solve the load balancing problems.
>
>
>
> At min I expect for any discussion to be valid to discuss and compare all
> options.
>
>
>
> Note also that SPRING does not use LDP so I am much less interested in
> solving the LDP load balancing issues.
>
>
>
> Rgs,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 6:46 PM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
>
>
> Talking MPLS, I don=E2=80=99t see a way to use MPLS label =E2=80=9Cprefix=
=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6 this is a
> discussion we already had together. I think you are trying to sell IPv6 S=
R
> that I will unfortunately not buy again J
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 08:48
> *To:* Kireeti Kompella
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
>
>
>
> Hi Kireeti,
>
> I quite disagree about the more state argument.
>
> If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down
> to there is no more state either in data or control plane.
>
> As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your hash
> function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max
> parallel links on any interface you should be fine.
>
> Best ,
> R.
>
> On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane
> all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide) and
> allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of flo=
ws
> to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.
>
>
>
> We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy label discussion.
>
>
>
> Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, we discussed
> advertising label blocks in LDP.  There are two problems:
>
> a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pools of SIDs impose more
> state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in the control plane).
>
> b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load balancing; if you use
> large blocks, you blow up the state more.
>
>
>
> Kireeti
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
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>
>
>
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> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
>
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
>
> Thank you.
>
>   _______________________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
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--001a113328f2e568cf04fef66161
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Hi,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div><div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&gt;</span> We already kn=
ow how to encode label offset.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Are you referring to Segment Index as offset=
=C2=A0 of label base ?</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospa=
ce;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BNo.=E2=80=8B SI is already defined for different use. I am describ=
ing general concept how we could indicate in 5 bits the number of significa=
nt (for forwarding) bits in MPLS label.=C2=A0</div><br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</s=
pan> Using the same encoding you can treat offset value as number of signif=
icant bits within the 20 bit label.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Could you give an example =C2=A0of lookup and =
forwarding structure for your label range/label prefix ? I see something po=
ssible but I still have an issue with the lookup structure.</p></div></div>=
</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BThe loo=
kup is trivial as there is no LPM needed. You simply do partial match on yo=
ur mpls labels in the LFIB.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">thx,</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;=
font-size:small">
R.</div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lan=
g=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=
=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com=
</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 13:24<br>
<b>To:</b> LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kireeti Kompella; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-kini-mpls-spring-entrop=
y-label@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-la=
bel@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
mpls@ietf.org</a><br>

<b>Subject:</b> RE: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>That is also solved problem ;)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>We already know how to encode label offset. Using the same encoding you =
can treat offset value as number of significant bits within the 20 bit labe=
l.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>We do not need to extend this to current label use cases. Hence there is=
 no issue with backwards compatibility.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Very basic and simple ;)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014 7:05 PM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:steph=
ane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Robert,</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">From a practical point of=
 view , how do=C2=A0 you represent such MPLS label range with a prefix ?</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[70, 170]</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[17, 69]</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">MPLS was not designed for=
 =E2=80=9Clabel aggregation=E2=80=9D scheme =E2=80=A6</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Or we need to change of l=
abels are allocated from the label space for all label consumers =E2=80=A6 =
to permit
 this aggregation.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:54<br>
<b>To:</b> LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kireeti Kompella; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mpls@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">
draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Stephane,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
This has NOTHING TO DO with IPv6. I am not even sure based on what you draw=
 such strange conclusion ....=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
I am talking pure about MPLS data plane (even without any IP above) and how=
 we can solve the load balancing problems.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
At min I expect for any discussion to be valid to discuss and compare all o=
ptions.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Note also that SPRING does not use LDP so I am much less interested in solv=
ing the LDP load balancing issues.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Rgs,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 6:46 PM, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@oran=
ge.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Robert,</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Talking MPLS, I don=E2=80=
=99t see a way to use MPLS label =E2=80=9Cprefix=E2=80=9D =E2=80=A6 this is=
 a discussion we already had
 together. I think you are trying to sell IPv6 SR that I will unfortunately=
 not buy again
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d"=
>J</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> spring [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-=
bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 24, 2014 08:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Kireeti Kompella<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label=
@tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Hi Kireeti,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I quite disagree about the more state argument.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If you treat mpls label as prefix with mask which is all this boils down=
 to there is no more state either in data or control plane.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p>As to the point of not perfect load balancing it all depends on your has=
h function. If you always advertise at least as big block as you have max p=
arallel links on any interface you should be fine.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Best ,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014 2:12 PM, &quot;Kireeti Kompella&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kireeti@juni=
per.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Robert,
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 24, 2014, at 03:21 , Robert Raszuk &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data plane a=
ll together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 wide)
 and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per group of =
flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the network.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We=E2=80=99re rehashing (pun unintended) the entropy=
 label discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before we settled on entropy labels the way we did, =
we discussed advertising label blocks in LDP. =C2=A0There are two problems:=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a) as Stephane mentions, ELs are stateless, but pool=
s of SIDs impose more state in the forwarding plane (and to some extent, in=
 the control plane).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">b) if you use small blocks, you get uneven load bala=
ncing; if you use large blocks, you blow up the state more.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kireeti<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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Thread-Topic: Comments on MPLS Architectural Principles and MPLS Global Labels
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<p>Hi George,</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regarding the global label, I have different opinion from that proposed =
in the slide &quot;MPLS Architectural
</p>
<p>Principles&quot;.<br>
1. According to the MPLS principle proposed in the page 2 and 3, I think gl=
obal label comply with all the principles
</p>
<p>described here.1) It is still 20 bits and can be in label stack. 2) It i=
s application-spcific. Please refer to the draft
</p>
<p>draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases for the possible application scenari=
os. 3) It can be allocated by IP-based
</p>
<p>control protocols.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
2. I do not think the concept of global label&nbsp;is proposed over and ove=
r again. I began to participate the IETF meeting
</p>
<p>in Stockholm in 2009. Only in that meeting, I saw the global label is pr=
oposed and critisized by Yakov. Later I
</p>
<p>experienced almost all IETF meeting. The global label idea is not propos=
ed until we propose the global label idea in
</p>
<p>2014. According to the frequency (one idea every&nbsp;5 years), I do not=
 think the global label is proposed over and over
</p>
<p>again. Maybe some people proposed the ideas many times in the 4 years to=
 you. But it just confine to private talk.
</p>
<p>As for me, according to the publised materias, it is not &quot;over and =
over again&quot;.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>3. Morevoer, after 4 year, the idea of global label is not the old one a=
ny more.
<br>
-- Firstly we should define what is global label. According to our definiti=
on proposed in draft-li-mpls-global-</p>
<p>label-framework, the MPLS global label means the label which meaning can=
 be understood by all nodes or part of
</p>
<p>nodes in the network. It is not mandorty that the global label must be u=
nderstood by ALL nodes. In our opinion,
</p>
<p>if one label's meaning can be understood by more than the two local neig=
hboring nodes, it can be defined as the
</p>
<p>global label. <br>
-- Secondly, in the past 4-5 years, many new things have been proposed and =
accepted in the MPLS world. They
</p>
<p>includes upstream allocation defined in RFC5331, entropy label defined i=
n RFC 6790, flow label defined in RFC
</p>
<p>6391, special-purpose label defined in RFC 7274, etc. According to our d=
efinition on global label, all of them can
</p>
<p>be seen as some types of global label because these labels can be consis=
tently processed or understood by multiple
</p>
<p>nodes in one network instead of the local upstream node and the downstre=
am node.
<br>
I wonder what is the global label's definition in the slides &quot;MPLS Arc=
hitectural Principles&quot;. Do you means that
</p>
<p>label&nbsp; allocated by part of nodes in the network can not be called =
as global label? Or do you means the label which
</p>
<p>is unerstood by multiple nodes but allocated from context-specific label=
 space can not be called as the global
</p>
<p>label?<br>
In my own opinion, we cannot ignore the fact that the label has already mul=
tiple usage beyond the original meaning
</p>
<p>which is only understood by the local upstream node and downstream node.=
 It is make no sense to argue that these
</p>
<p>label concept are different from that of global label. In my opinion, if=
 the concept of global label is hated, in
</p>
<p>the future, I am sure we will not miss some label concepts which just ch=
ange the name of global label.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><br>
Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "swallow@cisco.com" <swallow@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on MPLS Architectural Principles and Special semantics for double labels
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<p>Hi George,</p>
<p>Regarding the following concept you mentioned which is proposed over and=
 over again,
</p>
<p>&quot;Special semantics for double labels<br>
-- PoP top label; process next label; push PoP=A1=AFed label back on<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 8 byte label stack entry&quot;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Do you think the upstream label defined in RFC5331 and its usage for BGP=
-based MVPN defined in RFC6514 or the egress node's process of entropy labe=
l with ELI defined by RFC 6790 is not &quot;Special semantics for double la=
bels: PoP top label; process next label&quot;?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p><br>
&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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I am not aware of any IPR related to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.

--
Kamran Raza
skraza@cisco.com
Cisco.com <http://www.cisco.com/>



On 2014-07-24, 12:29 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Carlos,
>
>tnx - yes I made a copy past mistake (again :( ),
>the document we are asking about is  draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.
>
>/Loa
>
>On 2014-07-24 17:34, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
>> Loa,
>>
>> I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.
>>
>> [please note you list a different draft in your question below, but I
>> assume that is a typo]
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
>> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:23 AM
>> To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
>> <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux
>> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
>> "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org"
>> <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
>> Subject: Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
>> Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
>> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>, Wes George
>> <wesley.george@twcable.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson
>> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Martin Vigoureux
>> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
>> Resent-Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM
>>
>>> Working Group,
>>>
>>> The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
>>> wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.
>>>
>>> It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
>>> draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
>>> poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
>>> necessary, with less than that they have new information.
>>>
>>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
>>> lsp-ping?
>>>
>>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>>
>>> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>>
>>> If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list,
>>> then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Loa
>>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>
>
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Jeong,
    I think the document looks good.  Two *minor* comments on the latest
rev:
 
On 7/10/2014 7:55 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> > - In section 4 and 5.2 you reference 5712 and 3209 as defining
>> > preemption terminology and behavior. I think 6372 is the right
>> > reference here as it defines both in the context of survivability and
>> > in dependent of control plane.
>> > [Authors] One concern is that RFC 6372 describes both soft and hard
> preemptions in the context of extra traffic, which is not exactly the
> case for SMP.
>> >
>> > Then 6372 should be referenced and the difference should be described.
>  Otherwise readers are likely to think you just used the wrong reference
> and that 6372's text applies.  6372 is after all titled "MPLS-TP
> Survivability Framework"...
>> >
>> > [JR] O.K. 6372 will be referenced and we can add the following
> sentence as the third sentence in the paragraph: “The traffic of lower
> priority paths in this document can be viewed as the extra traffic being
> preempted in [RFC6372].”

Section 4 looks good, but the reference is missing from in 5.2.

>    Bidirectional protection switching SHOULD be supported in SMP.

This is really in the wrong section.  bidirectional PS has nothing to do
with reversion.  As before, I think section 5.7 is the best place for it.

Lou


From nobody Fri Jul 25 06:06:26 2014
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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Hi,

I am not aware of any IPR related to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap

Thanks,
Nagendra (Contributing Author)

On 7/24/14, 11:23 AM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Working Group,
>
>The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
>wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.
>
>It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
>draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
>poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
>necessary, with less than that they have new information.
>
>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
>lsp-ping?
>
>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
>If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list,
>then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>Thanks, Loa
>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>


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From nobody Fri Jul 25 06:29:13 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Requirements for MPLS-TP Shared Mesh Protection
        Authors         : Yaacov Weingarten
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Ping Pan
                          Jeong-dong Ryoo
                          Greg Mirsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-08.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2014-07-25

Abstract:
   This document presents the basic network objectives for the behavior
   of shared mesh protection (SMP) which are not based on control plane
   support. This is an expansion of the basic requirements presented in
   RFC 5654 "Requirements for the Transport Profile of MPLS" and RFC
   6372 "MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) Survivability Framework". This
   document provides requirements for any mechanism that would be used
   to implement SMP for MPLS-TP data paths, in networks that delegate
   protection switch coordination to the data  plane.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Jul 25 07:26:17 2014
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "tictoc@ietf.org" <tictoc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments to draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time-02
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--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7F45B9eusaamb103erics_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Dear All,
greatly appreciate comments we received after presenting our work to TICTOC=
 and MPLS WGs.
Below my recollection of comments with responses:

*         Shahram pointed that TTL Expiration mechanism would alter residen=
ce timing comparing with regular forwarding of an MPLS packet that may be c=
arrying time synchronization packet.
True. If RTM used over particular LSP, then all time synchronization packet=
s may be carried over RTM ACH and LER may ignore accumulated residence in c=
ertain cases.

*         Yaakov and George expressed concern by possible performance impac=
t that use of TTL Expiration method by RTM may have on installed LSRs that =
punt packets upon TTL expiration.
If an LSR does not advertise RTM capability in IGP TE, then it would not ap=
pear on RTM Set Object and, as result, would not be considered as "next dow=
nstream RTM LSR" by RTM capable LSR that calculates distance. If neverthele=
ss non-RTM capable LSR receives RTM ACH packet, then it will drop it as the=
 LSR would not recognize RTM ACH value.

*         Yaakov pointed that RTM capability is per port, not per node.
Yes, and that how we plan to advertise RTM capability in IGP TE.

We greatly appreciate all suggestions and comments.

                Regards,
                                Greg

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">greatly appreciate comments we received after presen=
ting our work to TICTOC and MPLS WGs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Below my recollection of comments with responses:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Shahram pointed that TTL Expiration mechanis=
m would alter residence timing comparing with regular forwarding of an MPLS=
 packet that may be carrying time synchronization packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">True. If RTM used over pa=
rticular LSP, then all time synchronization packets may be carried over RTM=
 ACH and LER may ignore accumulated residence in certain cases.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Yaakov and George expressed concern by possi=
ble performance impact that use of TTL Expiration method by RTM may have on=
 installed LSRs that punt packets upon TTL expiration.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If an LSR does not advert=
ise RTM capability in IGP TE, then it would not appear on RTM Set Object an=
d, as result, would not be considered as &#8220;next downstream RTM LSR&#82=
21; by RTM capable LSR that calculates distance.
 If nevertheless non-RTM capable LSR receives RTM ACH packet, then it will =
drop it as the LSR would not recognize RTM ACH value.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Yaakov pointed that RTM capability is per po=
rt, not per node.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Yes, and that how we plan=
 to advertise RTM capability in IGP TE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We greatly appreciate all suggestions and comments.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7F45B9eusaamb103erics_--


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From: Rajiv Papneja <Rajiv.Papneja@huawei.com>
To: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
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I am not aware of any IPR related to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.

Thanks,
Rajiv



On 2014-07-24, 12:29 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Carlos,
>
>tnx - yes I made a copy past mistake (again :( ),
>the document we are asking about is  draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.
>
>/Loa
>
>On 2014-07-24 17:34, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
>> Loa,
>>
>> I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap.
>>
>> [please note you list a different draft in your question below, but I
>> assume that is a typo]
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
>> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:23 AM
>> To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
>> <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux
>> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
>> "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org"
>> <draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org>
>> Subject: Conditional IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap
>> Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
>> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>, Wes George
>> <wesley.george@twcable.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson
>> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, Martin Vigoureux
>> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
>> Resent-Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM
>>
>>> Working Group,
>>>
>>> The editors/authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap has told the
>>> wg chairs that the draft is ready working group last call.
>>>
>>> It is less than 4 months since we did the IPR poll on the individual
>>> draft and the changes has not been such that we think that a new IPR
>>> poll that requires the responses form editors/authors/contributors are
>>> necessary, with less than that they have new information.
>>>
>>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
>>> lsp-ping?
>>>
>>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>>
>>> Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>>
>>> If you are an editor/author/contributor or are the MPLS WG email list,
>>> then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Loa
>>> (as MPLS WG co-chair)
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>
>
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Fri Jul 25 08:44:41 2014
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Robert,

On 24 Jul 2014, at 16:21, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> I see your interpretation and where it could be confusing. You have =
clearly went beyond my boldest intentions :)=20

Thanks for the clarification.

> > =46rom what I comprehend, you are saying that we define=20
> > that a single SID maps to N labels.
>=20
> Nope. That is perhaps key difference.=20
>=20
> My proposal is that node advertises block of Node-SIDs which in turn =
map 1:1 to MPLS labels. The block of Node-SIDs as as big as largest =
expected number of parallel links.=20

Operationally =97 this doesn=92t seem ideal to me. AIUI, If we have some =
forwarding issue between two LSRs, then we might end up with partial =
reachability if a subset of the paths do not have correct LFIB entries =
throughout the network. It introduces a requirement, where failure =
detection is required, to run N different OAM probes to be able to =
monitor reachability (one for each Node-SID assigned to the remote =
device - even in cases where we have 1 available path).

I think the question for the MPLS WG here is whether there is any =
appetite to introduce a new means by which entropy in MPLS networks is =
introduced. We already have Entropy Label which has been published and =
implemented. The question to me seems to be why we need anything else. =
Fewer solutions seems optimal :-)

Cheers,
r.



> Best,
> r.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>=20
> On 24 Jul 2014, at 03:21, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> >
> > Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data =
plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 =
wide) and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per =
group of flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the =
network.
>=20
> Sorry, maybe I=92m missing something here, but I found your message a =
little cryptic.
>=20
> =46rom what I comprehend, you are saying that we define that a single =
SID maps to N labels. These labels are split somehow into a =93forwarding=94=
 and =93hash=94 value. Simplistically, this could say that we have the =
first 12 bits as the =93forwarding=94 and the bottom 8 as the =93hash=94 =
value.
>=20
> e.g. Node A advertises an Adj-SID with value 0b00000101000 (40), =
anything that is in the range 0b0000010100000000000 (10240) - =
0b0000010100011111111 (10495) has the same forwarding behaviour, but the =
last 8 bits are used to hash (allowing 256 different hash-able objects).
>=20
> If I understood right - then this seems to have a number of challenges =
to me:
>=20
> - For Node-SIDs, we now must sterilise the SRGB to be as wide as =
(number of required entries)*(number of hash-able objects required) - =
which means that we must be able to determine a label block that can be =
used for this.
> - We reduce the size of the label space from 20-bits to a smaller =
value - this might be a material concern in cases where we have many =
other labels that are allocated on a device (per-prefix label allocation =
within an L3VPN environment that has many prefixes might be a concern?).
> - We need every device in the network to comprehend this new format of =
label allocation and imposition - such that we do not increase the =
number of forwarding entries that are required (as Stephane and Kireeti =
have observed). This is problematic where we have limited LFIB already =
since instead of programming a number of LFIB entries O(the number of =
labelled endpoints) then we instead need to have O(number of labelled =
endpoints * number of hashable objects).
>=20
> Equally, I think the assertion that you have made is that deeper EL is =
not =93easily supported by most of [today=92s] shipping routers=94. I =
think that we need to determine whether this is really the case =97 =
given that MPLS WG has standardised EL we need to figure *why* a change =
from this is required =97 which is (I guess) the intention of the draft =
we=92re discussing here. *If* we conclude that none of the options that =
are presented using existing technology are suitable, then potentially =
then we can look at new solutions.
>=20
> If my reading of your mail is completely whacky, then please ignore =
the above - and a clarifying example would be greatly appreciated.
>=20
> thx,
> r.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_66F2A3F9-0623-40ED-892E-03E4F525E8AB
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Robert,<div><br><div><div>On 24 Jul 2014, at 16:21, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:'courier new',monospace;font-size:small">I see your =
interpretation and where it could be confusing. You have clearly went =
beyond my boldest intentions =
:)&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Thanks for the =
clarification.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"courier =
new, monospace">&gt; =46rom what I comprehend, you are saying that we =
define&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font =
face=3D"courier new, monospace">&gt; that a single SID maps to N =
labels.</font><br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"courier new, =
monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font =
face=3D"courier new, monospace">Nope. That is perhaps key =
difference.&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">
<font face=3D"courier new, monospace"><br></font></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"courier new, =
monospace">My proposal is that node advertises block of Node-SIDs which =
in turn map 1:1 to MPLS labels. The block of Node-SIDs as as big as =
largest expected number of parallel links.&nbsp;</font></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Operationally =97 this doesn=92t =
seem ideal to me. AIUI, If we have some forwarding issue between two =
LSRs, then we might end up with partial reachability if a subset of the =
paths do not have correct LFIB entries throughout the network. It =
introduces a requirement, where failure detection is required, to run N =
different OAM probes to be able to monitor reachability (one for each =
Node-SID assigned to the remote device - even in cases where we have 1 =
available path).</div><div><br></div><div>I think the question for the =
MPLS WG here is whether there is any appetite to introduce a new means =
by which entropy in MPLS networks is introduced. We already have Entropy =
Label which has been published and implemented. The question to me seems =
to be why we need anything else. Fewer solutions seems optimal =
:-)</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>r.</div><div><br></div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"courier new, =
monospace">
</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"courier=
 new, monospace">Best,</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D""><font face=3D"courier new, monospace">r.</font></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D""><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Rob Shakir <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rjs@rob.sh" =
target=3D"_blank">rjs@rob.sh</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Robert,<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
On 24 Jul 2014, at 03:21, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Therefor an alternative of using any form of entropy labels in data =
plane all together would be to allocate a SID blocks (say 64 or 128 =
wide) and allow SPRING header imposition to use such pools of SIDs per =
group of flows to effectively allow for efficient load balancing in the =
network.<br>

<br>
</div>Sorry, maybe I=92m missing something here, but I found your =
message a little cryptic.<br>
<br>
=46rom what I comprehend, you are saying that we define that a single =
SID maps to N labels. These labels are split somehow into a =93forwarding=94=
 and =93hash=94 value. Simplistically, this could say that we have the =
first 12 bits as the =93forwarding=94 and the bottom 8 as the =93hash=94 =
value.<br>

<br>
e.g. Node A advertises an Adj-SID with value 0b00000101000 (40), =
anything that is in the range 0b0000010100000000000 (10240) - =
0b0000010100011111111 (10495) has the same forwarding behaviour, but the =
last 8 bits are used to hash (allowing 256 different hash-able =
objects).<br>

<br>
If I understood right - then this seems to have a number of challenges =
to me:<br>
<br>
- For Node-SIDs, we now must sterilise the SRGB to be as wide as (number =
of required entries)*(number of hash-able objects required) - which =
means that we must be able to determine a label block that can be used =
for this.<br>

- We reduce the size of the label space from 20-bits to a smaller value =
- this might be a material concern in cases where we have many other =
labels that are allocated on a device (per-prefix label allocation =
within an L3VPN environment that has many prefixes might be a =
concern?).<br>

- We need every device in the network to comprehend this new format of =
label allocation and imposition - such that we do not increase the =
number of forwarding entries that are required (as Stephane and Kireeti =
have observed). This is problematic where we have limited LFIB already =
since instead of programming a number of LFIB entries O(the number of =
labelled endpoints) then we instead need to have O(number of labelled =
endpoints * number of hashable objects).<br>

<br>
Equally, I think the assertion that you have made is that deeper EL is =
not =93easily supported by most of [today=92s] shipping routers=94. I =
think that we need to determine whether this is really the case =97 =
given that MPLS WG has standardised EL we need to figure *why* a change =
from this is required =97 which is (I guess) the intention of the draft =
we=92re discussing here. *If* we conclude that none of the options that =
are presented using existing technology are suitable, then potentially =
then we can look at new solutions.<br>

<br>
If my reading of your mail is completely whacky, then please ignore the =
above - and a clarifying example would be greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
thx,<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">r.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_66F2A3F9-0623-40ED-892E-03E4F525E8AB--


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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--001a113328f2fa07d504ff06e5e8
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=E2=80=8BHi Rob,=E2=80=8B


> =E2=80=8B
> It introduces a requirement, where failure detection is required, to run =
N
> different OAM probes to be able to monitor reachability (one for each
> Node-SID assigned to the remote device - even in cases where we have 1
> available path).
>

=E2=80=8BWhen you get today /24 IP prefix =E2=80=8Bdo you monitor reachabil=
ity to all 255
host addresses within this prefix or to the next hop which advertised it ?

Likewise when you get a block of SID monitoring OEM to the node which
advertised it seems sufficient to me. I assume there is still IGP there and
router_id or s-bfd.

Comparing two options it seems that mpls hardware is to much faster support
match on subset of MPLS label bits vs ability to look over long chain of
labels for ELI/EL.

I think the question for the MPLS WG here is whether there is any appetite
> to introduce a new means by which entropy in MPLS networks is introduced.
> We already have Entropy Label which has been published and implemented. T=
he
> question to me seems to be why we need anything else. Fewer solutions see=
ms
> optimal :-)
>

=E2=80=8BOf course fewer is better provided that:

a) fewer works
b) is architecturally sound

Moreover SID/label block vs entropy labels is not apple to apple
comparison.

Former is just control plane solution, does not insert anything extra into
each packet while latter is based on data plane modifications and new
hardware support to either handle Eiffel Tower of label stack or tricks
with search along the stack for ELI/EL tupel(s).

Cheers,
R.
=E2=80=8B

--001a113328f2fa07d504ff06e5e8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mo=
nospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BHi Rob,=E2=80=8B</div></div><div>=C2=A0<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style=
:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;display:inline">=
=E2=80=8B</div> It introduces a requirement, where failure detection is req=
uired, to run N different OAM probes to be able to monitor reachability (on=
e for each Node-SID assigned to the remote device - even in cases where we =
have 1 available path).<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:s=
mall">=E2=80=8BWhen you get today /24 IP prefix =E2=80=8Bdo you monitor rea=
chability to all 255 host addresses within this prefix or to the next hop w=
hich advertised it ?=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Likewise when you=
 get a block of SID monitoring OEM to the node which advertised it seems su=
fficient to me. I assume there is still IGP there and router_id or s-bfd.</=
div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Comparing two opt=
ions it seems that mpls hardware is to much faster support match on subset =
of MPLS label bits vs ability to look over long chain of labels for ELI/EL.=
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div>I think the question for=
 the MPLS WG here is whether there is any appetite to introduce a new means=
 by which entropy in MPLS networks is introduced. We already have Entropy L=
abel which has been published and implemented. The question to me seems to =
be why we need anything else. Fewer solutions seems optimal :-)<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:s=
mall">=E2=80=8BOf course fewer is better provided that:</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-si=
ze:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">a) fewer works</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:smal=
l">b) is architecturally sound</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Moreover SID/labe=
l block vs entropy labels is not apple to apple comparison.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Former is just co=
ntrol plane solution, does not insert anything extra into each packet while=
 latter is based on data plane modifications and new hardware support to ei=
ther handle Eiffel Tower of label stack or tricks with search along the sta=
ck for ELI/EL tupel(s).</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Cheers,<br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small">
R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&=
#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B</div></div></div></div></div>

--001a113328f2fa07d504ff06e5e8--


From nobody Sat Jul 26 05:28:58 2014
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Zhenlong,

draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements in the mpls wg
yesterday. I had a question that was not very clear, I try to repeat it
here.

In slide 3 you say hat that:


"In the m:n architecture, the m backup paths(p1,p2)
  are sharing backup resource for n working paths, as
  shown in the following example(modeling)."

In slide 5 you say:

" The m backup paths should be sharing backup
   resource for n working paths, where n>=m."

It is not entirely clear if you say that n being a lower number is an
cost optimization or if it is part of the architecture.

 From a strictly architectural could n be lower, equal or higher than m,
i.e. you can protect m working paths with m+x protecting paths. Where
x can be any positive or negative number (as long as it give you at
least some resources for protection).

/Loa



-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Sat Jul 26 06:59:46 2014
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Subject: [mpls] Fwd: Summary of RTG Tuning as presented to IESG/IAB
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Working Group,

You should have heard that the routing area is going through a
tuning process, part of that is that about half of the working
groups will effected by an re-org; for MPLS this means that the
work we have done for RSVP-TE packet and sometimes generic RSVP-TE
will be moved a new TE working group.

Below you find Adrian's summary of the re-tuning discussions to the
IAB and IESG.

There are also slides from the RTG Area meeting to be found here:

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-rtgarea-4.ppt

I expect ADs to ask us to start working on the charter for the new
mols wg, possibly based on a proposal from them.

/Loa
for the mpls wg chairs


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Summary of RTG Tuning as presented to IESG/IAB
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:57:47 +0100
From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
To: <routing-discussion@ietf.org>

Hi,

I just presented a summary of our discussions about tuning the work-split in
Routing to bring the IESG and IAB up to speed.

Here it is for your information. Do please continue to discuss and share 
this as
you see fit.

Thanks for all the input received so far.

Remember that until these changes are implemented, all work should 
continue as
currently.

Adrian

====

Wide discussion and some sort of general agreementishiness
   - Mailing lists
   - Chairs/Directorate lunch
   - Area meeting
   - Corridors

ADs' opinions and proposals were modified by discussion

All current work remains in the Area

All WG I-Ds will remain as WG I-Ds

No new work at the moment

Same number of WGs in the Area

12 WGs completely unchanged

2 minor tweaks
   - PIM has more multicast oversight
   - RTGWG has stronger Dispatch element

Merge and shuffle to achieve 6 WGs
   - BGP Enabled ServiceS (L3VPN, L2VPN, NVO3) BESS
   - Pseudowire- and LDP-enabled Services (L2VPN, PWE3) PALS
   - Traffic Engineering Architecture and Signaling (MPLS, CCAMP) TEAS
   - CCAMP (CCAMP minus TEAS)
   - MPLS (MPLS minus TEAS)
   - NVO3 (NVO3 minus BESS)

Plan of action
   - Starting to think about chairs now
   - Starting to draft charters now
   - Plan to have changes up and running before IETF-91


_______________________________________________
routing-discussion mailing list
routing-discussion@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion



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From: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" <tsaad@cisco.com>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03.txt
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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 19:56:18 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03.txt
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Working Group,

We=B9ve uploaded version -03 of the draft (accessible below). The authors
are soliciting any comments that can be sent the mailer list.

Regards,
Tarek

On 2014-07-21, 11:02 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
<internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
>A new version of I-D, draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Tarek Saad and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:		draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
>Revision:	03
>Title:		Reoptimization of Point-to-Multipoint Traffic Engineering Loosely
>Routed LSPs
>Document date:	2014-07-21
>Group:		mpls
>Pages:		11
>URL:           =20
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
>-03.txt
>Status:        =20
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt/
>Htmlized:      =20
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03
>Diff:          =20
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-=
03
>
>Abstract:
>   For a Traffic Engineered (TE) point-to-multipoint (P2MP) Label
>   Switched Path (LSP), it is preferable in some cases to re-evaluate
>   and re-optimize the entire P2MP-TE LSP by re-signaling all its S2L
>   sub-LSP(s). Existing mechanisms allow the path re-evaluation and the
>   signaling of a the notification of preferred path exists for a single
>   S2L sub-LSP only.
>
>   This document defines RSVP-TE signaling extensions to allow an
>   ingress Label Switching Router (LSR) of a P2MP-TE LSP to trigger the
>   re-evaluation of the entire LSP tree containing one or more S2L sub-
>   LSPs whose paths are loose (or abstract) hop expanded, and for a mid-
>   point LSR to signal to the ingress LSR that a better tree exists for
>   the entire P2MP-TE LSP.
>
>                 =20
>       =20
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>


From nobody Sat Jul 26 13:47:56 2014
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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 22:48:00 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Working Group,

The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told
us that the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.

Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
path-reopt?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Sat Jul 26 15:04:54 2014
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--Apple-Mail=_9D2A66BA-48D6-46ED-8A93-C7BE2CF1FCB4
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Hi Robert,

On 25 Jul 2014, at 12:16, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> =E2=80=8BHi Rob,=E2=80=8B
> =20
> =E2=80=8B It introduces a requirement, where failure detection is =
required, to run N different OAM probes to be able to monitor =
reachability (one for each Node-SID assigned to the remote device - even =
in cases where we have 1 available path).
>=20
> =E2=80=8BWhen you get today /24 IP prefix =E2=80=8Bdo you monitor =
reachability to all 255 host addresses within this prefix or to the next =
hop which advertised it ?=20
>=20
> Likewise when you get a block of SID monitoring OEM to the node which =
advertised it seems sufficient to me. I assume there is still IGP there =
and router_id or s-bcd.

I don=E2=80=99t think this is analogous =E2=80=94 there is only one =
forwarding entry for a /24 if it has a single next-hop. With the =
multiple SIDs (and 1:1 SID to label mapping) then there will be multiple =
LFIB entries.

BR,
r.



--Apple-Mail=_9D2A66BA-48D6-46ED-8A93-C7BE2CF1FCB4
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Robert,<div><br><div><div>On 25 Jul 2014, at 12:16, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:'courier new',monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BHi =
Rob,=E2=80=8B</div></div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:'courier new',monospace;display:inline">=E2=80=8B</di=
v> It introduces a requirement, where failure detection is required, to =
run N different OAM probes to be able to monitor reachability (one for =
each Node-SID assigned to the remote device - even in cases where we =
have 1 available path).<br>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:'courier new',monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BWhe=
n you get today /24 IP prefix =E2=80=8Bdo you monitor reachability to =
all 255 host addresses within this prefix or to the next hop which =
advertised it ?&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'courier =
new',monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:'courier new',monospace;font-size:small">Likewise =
when you get a block of SID monitoring OEM to the node which advertised =
it seems sufficient to me. I assume there is still IGP there and =
router_id or =
s-bcd.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I =
don=E2=80=99t think this is analogous =E2=80=94 there is only one =
forwarding entry for a /24 if it has a single next-hop. With the =
multiple SIDs (and 1:1 SID to label mapping) then there will be multiple =
LFIB =
entries.</div><div><br></div><div>BR,</div><div>r.</div><br></div><br></di=
v></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_9D2A66BA-48D6-46ED-8A93-C7BE2CF1FCB4--


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To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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>
> I don=E2=80=99t think this is analogous =E2=80=94 there is only one forwa=
rding entry for a
> /24 if it has a single next-hop. With the multiple SIDs (and 1:1 SID to
> label mapping) then there will be multiple LFIB entries.
>

=E2=80=8BNope.

The entire idea is to have a single LFIB entry as well.

Best,
r.

=E2=80=8B

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div>I =
don=E2=80=99t think this is analogous =E2=80=94 there is only one forwardin=
g entry for a /24 if it has a single next-hop. With the multiple SIDs (and =
1:1 SID to label mapping) then there will be multiple LFIB entries.<br>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=
=E2=80=8BNope.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">The entire idea is to have a single LFIB =
entry as well.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">r.</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,m=
onospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B</div><br></div></div></div></di=
v>

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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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On 26 Jul 2014, at 18:07, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> I don=E2=80=99t think this is analogous =E2=80=94 there is only one =
forwarding entry for a /24 if it has a single next-hop. With the =
multiple SIDs (and 1:1 SID to label mapping) then there will be multiple =
LFIB entries.
>=20
> =E2=80=8BNope.=20
>=20
> The entire idea is to have a single LFIB entry as well.=20

Again, I=E2=80=99m lost. :-(

Perhaps you can expand on how an LSR programs its LFIB such that it has =
multiple labels matched with a single entry please? I=E2=80=99m =
struggling to comprehend how this fits into the existing =
implementations, or can be realised without requiring some =
forwarding/entropy split of the 20-bit label as I described before.

Kind regards,
r.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On 26 Jul 2014, at 18:07, Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">I don=E2=80=99t think this is analogous =
=E2=80=94 there is only one forwarding entry for a /24 if it has a =
single next-hop. With the multiple SIDs (and 1:1 SID to label mapping) =
then there will be multiple LFIB entries.<br>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:'courier =
new',monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BNope.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'courier =
new',monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'courier =
new',monospace;font-size:small">The entire idea is to have a single LFIB =
entry as =
well.&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Again=
, I=E2=80=99m lost. :-(</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps you can expand =
on how an LSR programs its LFIB such that it has multiple labels matched =
with a single entry please? I=E2=80=99m struggling to comprehend how =
this fits into the existing implementations, or can be realised without =
requiring some forwarding/entropy split of the 20-bit label as I =
described before.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind =
regards,</div><div>r.</div><br></body></html>=

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To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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>
> Perhaps you can expand on how an LSR programs its LFIB such that it has
> multiple labels matched with a single entry please?
>

=E2=80=8BWhen you install a label to LFIB you also pass its depth ie number=
 of
significant bits to match on.

Hardware will treat the remaining bits as "do not care". That is pretty
basic logical function for any match operation.

At least I am quite sure it is much simpler then any other form of search
for ELI/EL within the SR deep stack :)

I=E2=80=99m struggling to comprehend how this fits into the existing
> implementations, or can be realised without requiring some
> forwarding/entropy split of the 20-bit label as I described before.
>

=E2=80=8BThe split I have in mind is passed explicitiely in control plane. =
So there
is no additional logic required for it. =E2=80=8B

=E2=80=8BNow you may rightfully state that this requires an upgrade. Well t=
rue but
any alternative discussed here requires an upgrade as well. Moreover even
support of SR requires an upgrade :)

Control plane vs data plane .. EL based solution requires both day one.
Label mask does not strictly require any data plane change during the
transition period as it could install all atomic labels till the mask
support in LFIB is available later.

Cheers,
R.=E2=80=8B

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>Perhaps=
 you can expand on how an LSR programs its LFIB such that it has multiple l=
abels matched with a single entry please? </div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BW=
hen you install a label to LFIB you also pass its depth ie number of signif=
icant bits to match on.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Hardware will tre=
at the remaining bits as &quot;do not care&quot;. That is pretty basic logi=
cal function for any match operation.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">At least I am qui=
te sure it is much simpler then any other form of search for ELI/EL within =
the SR deep stack :)</div>
</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap=
:break-word"><div>I=E2=80=99m struggling to comprehend how this fits into t=
he existing implementations, or can be realised without requiring some forw=
arding/entropy split of the 20-bit label as I described before.<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=
=8BThe split I have in mind is passed explicitiely in control plane. So the=
re is no additional logic required for it. =E2=80=8B</div>
<br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;couri=
er new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BNow you may rightfully stat=
e that this requires an upgrade. Well true but any alternative discussed he=
re requires an upgrade as well. Moreover even support of SR requires an upg=
rade :)</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Control plane vs =
data plane .. EL based solution requires both day one. Label mask does not =
strictly require any data plane change during the transition period as it c=
ould install all atomic labels till the mask support in LFIB is available l=
ater.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Cheers,</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospa=
ce;font-size:small">
R.=E2=80=8B</div></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

--047d7bdc0aeac7237104ff202c5e--


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org" <draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:05:27 +0000
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Hi Authors,

The presentation for this document at IETF90 added some use cases.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-mpls-13.pptx, Slide 2.

Below are my comments on just the new use cases added.
=20
1. MPLS OAM for LDP LSP

The problem isn't specific to LDP, but SR as well as TE/TP with PHP. Howeve=
r, what you need is a label that ingress and egress agree on, which granula=
rity is likely at least one label per LSP. Attempting to solve this through=
 suggested "global label" will unnecessary burn up labels in the "global la=
bel space" (i.e. severe scalability problem). In other words, LSP egress al=
located context label appears to be simpler and technical superior, IMHO.

2. Service Chaining
=09
Why not let SFC folks to do their work, which SFC will then work on the MPL=
S data plane without any changes to the MPLS data plane nor architecture, c=
ertainly doesn't require any "global label" as this use case is describing.=
 Unless the SFC WG require the "global label" (which it doesn't) or the MPL=
S WG is re-chartered to pick up creation of a tangent SFC solution specific=
ally for MPLS, I don't think this use case is valid.

3. Segment Routing

The Segment Routing technology is much further down the road (i.e. we even =
saw some cool stuff in the Bits-n-Bites at IETF90) and they already have a =
solution for SRGB. Even if Segment Routing was using global labels (which i=
sn't the case), I'm not sure if there's any value in listing this as a use =
case for "global label".

I've only had a quick scan of draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases (and have=
n't fully read all the referenced documents), but my immediate reaction was=
 "are these real use cases?"

Perhaps there's a value is re-writing this documents to exclude following c=
ategories:
- This can become a use case if folks didn't want to use context labels.
- This can become a use case if things like this was ever required.
- This can become a use case but there are solutions out there already.

My 2 yen.

Thanks!

-Nobo


From nobody Sun Jul 27 12:43:02 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Traceroute Reply Mode Simplification
        Authors         : Nobo Akiya
                          George Swallow
                          Carlos Pignataro
                          Loa Andersson
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-03.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2014-07-27

Abstract:
   The Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP)
   Ping and Traceroute use the Reply Mode field to signal the method to
   be used in the MPLS echo reply.  This document adds one value to the
   Reply Mode field to indicate reverse LSP.  This document also adds an
   optional TLV which can carry ordered list of Reply Mode values.

   This document updates RFC4379.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Sun Jul 27 12:48:03 2014
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
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Hello MPLS WG,

We have published a new version of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-sim=
ple.

Many thanks to Sam Aldrin, Jeffrey Zhang, Jeremy Whittaker and Mustapha Ali=
ssaoui for providing valuable comments.

Thanks!

-Nobo

URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-pi=
ng-reply-mode-simple-03.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-=
reply-mode-simple/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-=
mode-simple-03
Diff:           http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-akiya-mpls-lsp-pin=
g-reply-mode-simple-03

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-
> drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 3:43 PM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-
> 03.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>  This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working
> Group of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Traceroute Reply=
 Mode
> Simplification
>         Authors         : Nobo Akiya
>                           George Swallow
>                           Carlos Pignataro
>                           Loa Andersson
>                           Mach(Guoyi) Chen
> 	Filename        : draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 11
> 	Date            : 2014-07-27
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP)
>    Ping and Traceroute use the Reply Mode field to signal the method to
>    be used in the MPLS echo reply.  This document adds one value to the
>    Reply Mode field to indicate reverse LSP.  This document also adds an
>    optional TLV which can carry ordered list of Reply Mode values.
>=20
>    This document updates RFC4379.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-simple-03
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-reply-mode-
> simple-03
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet=
f.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Mon Jul 28 03:16:43 2014
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Working Group,

This is to initiate a two week working group last call on
draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding.

Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

There are no IPR disclosures against this document. All the authors
and contributors have stated on the working group mailing list that
they are  not aware of any IPRs that relates to this draft.

This working group last call ends August 8, 2014.

/Loa
for the MPLS wg chairs
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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Hi Robert,

On 26 Jul 2014, at 23:26, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Perhaps you can expand on how an LSR programs its LFIB such that it =
has multiple labels matched with a single entry please?
>=20
> =E2=80=8BWhen you install a label to LFIB you also pass its depth ie =
number of significant bits to match on.=20
>=20
> Hardware will treat the remaining bits as "do not care". That is =
pretty basic logical function for any match operation.=20

rjs> So, this is exactly akin to the description I gave of partitioning =
the label space - since it requires one to sterilise some of the label =
space (N-bits are now significant for forwarding, with the remaining =
(20-M) being used for entropy).

> At least I am quite sure it is much simpler then any other form of =
search for ELI/EL within the SR deep stack :)

rjs> The look-up logic has to change somewhat for the data-plane. =
Particularly as:

- We need to check whether the top-most label is within the block of =
labels that we are using for this function.
- If it is, we do a lookup based on the first N-bits to determine the =
next-hop.
	- if it=E2=80=99s not, we need to do a lookup based on the =
entire label.
- If this was in the entropy block we determine the OIF by matching this =
next-hop along with the hash of the remaining (20-N) bits.
	- else we fallback to the existing hashing procedures.

Alternatively, we need to:

- Look-up the next-hop based on the top-most label.
- If the ELI is in the label stack, take the following label as the EL.
- Determine the OIF based on the next-hop and the EL value received.
	- if the EL is not present, then hash based on existing =
procedures.

Is the former =E2=80=9Cmuch simpler=E2=80=9D? I am no hardware expert, =
but I would say they seem roughly analogous in terms of decision process =
that needs to be made - other than the latter needs visibility into more =
of the packet (such that ELI/EL is included in the header that is =
extracted).=20

It=E2=80=99s notable that the latter logic must be implemented anyway at =
an LSR, because we have now standardised ELI/EL and it is implemented.

> I=E2=80=99m struggling to comprehend how this fits into the existing =
implementations, or can be realised without requiring some =
forwarding/entropy split of the 20-bit label as I described before.
>=20
> =E2=80=8BThe split I have in mind is passed explicitiely in control =
plane. So there is no additional logic required for it. =E2=80=8B
>=20
> =E2=80=8BNow you may rightfully state that this requires an upgrade. =
Well true but any alternative discussed here requires an upgrade as =
well. Moreover even support of SR requires an upgrade :)
>=20
> Control plane vs data plane .. EL based solution requires both day =
one. Label mask does not strictly require any data plane change during =
the transition period as it could install all atomic labels till the =
mask support in LFIB is available later.
>=20

rjs> In smaller nodes (aggregation/access nodes) then this might have =
significant impact, given LFIB limitations. If we need to have M*(number =
of destination FECs) installed in the LFIB then this might bust some =
limits.

Whilst label mask is a potential solution, my view is that we should =
continue to leverage the EL work already done by this WG.

Kind regards,

> Cheers,
> R.=E2=80=8B
>=20


From nobody Mon Jul 28 07:10:49 2014
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:10:16 -0400
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Subject: [mpls] PWE3 WG Last Call for draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01
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--001a113a22bab2063c04ff417c43
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MPLS WG,

The PWE3 WG is currently conducting a WG last call
on draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01, and solicits your comments.
See below for the last call announcement and the URL for the draft.

Note that this draft allocates code points that are referenced
by draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv, which is currently on the
RFC Editor's queue.

Please review the draft and send comments to the pwe3@ietf.org email list.

Thanks,
Andy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 10:56 AM
Subject: [PWE3] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-0=
1
To: "pwe3@ietf.org" <pwe3@ietf.org>

This email begins a second two week working group last call for
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01 .

Please review the draft and post any comments to the PWE3 list.

If you have read the draft, even if you don=C2=B9t have any comments, but w=
ould
like to see the draft progressed,  please can you indicate this to the
list.

This working group last call will end on Friday August 8th, 2014.


Best regards


Matthew and Andy

_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3

--001a113a22bab2063c04ff417c43
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<div dir=3D"ltr">MPLS WG,<div><br></div><div>The PWE3 WG is currently condu=
cting a WG last call on=C2=A0draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01, a=
nd solicits your comments. See below for the last call announcement and the=
 URL for the draft.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Note that this draft allocates code points that are ref=
erenced by=C2=A0draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv, which is curre=
ntly on the RFC Editor&#39;s queue.</div><div><br></div><div>Please review =
the draft and send comments to the <a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ie=
tf.org</a> email list.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail=
_sendername">Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)</b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com">matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com</=
a>&gt;</span><br>

Date: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 10:56 AM<br>Subject: [PWE3] WG Last Call for dra=
ft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01<br>To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pwe=
3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pw=
e3@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>

<br>This email begins a second two week working group last call for<br>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protect=
ion-01" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoi=
nt-fast-protection-01</a> .<br>
<br>
Please review the draft and post any comments to the PWE3 list.<br>
<br>
If you have read the draft, even if you don=C2=B9t have any comments, but w=
ould<br>
like to see the draft progressed, =C2=A0please can you indicate this to the=
<br>
list.<br>
<br>
This working group last call will end on Friday August 8th, 2014.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
<br>
Matthew and Andy<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
pwe3 mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3</a><br>
</div><br></div></div>

--001a113a22bab2063c04ff417c43--


From nobody Mon Jul 28 07:58:18 2014
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To: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" <tsaad@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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From nobody Mon Jul 28 08:22:22 2014
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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:22:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Hi Loa,=20

I am aware of one IPR and has been disclosed as follows.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2307/

Thanks,
Rakesh


On 2014-07-26 4:48 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Working Group,
>
>The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told
>us that the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.
>
>Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
>as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.
>
>This mail starts that IPR poll.
>
>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
>path-reopt?
>
>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>
>If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
>document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>received from each author and contributor.
>
>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>Thanks, Loa
>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Subject: [mpls] Fwd: Re: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
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Chairs, MPLS WG,

Joseph, informs me that he knows of no IPR related to this
draft.

I think that you now have declarations from all Authors and
Contributors.

Stewart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
Date: 	Mon, 28 Jul 2014 09:37:42 -0700
From: 	Joseph Chin (schin) <schin@cisco.com>
To: 	Stewart Bryant (stbryant) <stbryant@cisco.com>



Hi Stewart,

I’m not aware of any IPR relevant to this draft no submit any CPOC 
related to this.
Please let know if you need anymore info.

Regards,
Joseph


From: "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" <stbryant@cisco.com 
<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>>
Reply-To: "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" <stbryant@cisco.com 
<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>>
Date: Monday, July 28, 2014 at 9:32 AM
To: Joseph Chin <schin@cisco.com <mailto:schin@cisco.com>>
Subject: Fwd: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return




    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: 	IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
    Resent-Date: 	Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:12:54 +0000
    Resent-From: 	<draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
    Resent-To: 	<msiva@cisco.com>, <sagsoni@cisco.com>,
    <stbryant@cisco.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, <loa@pi.nu>,
    <rcallon@juniper.net>, <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
    Date: 	Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:12:50 +0200
    From: 	Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
    To: 	mpls@ietf.org<mpls@ietf.org>
    CC:
    draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org<draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org>,
    mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, VIGOUREUX,
    MARTIN (MARTIN) <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>



    Working Group,

    This is to start an IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return.

    Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return?

    If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
    (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

    Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

    If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
    this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
    IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
    document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
    received from each author and contributor.

    If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
    contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
    IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

    Thanks, Loa
    (as MPLS WG co-chair)
    -- 


    Loa Andersson                        email:loa@mail01.huawei.com
    Senior MPLS Expertloa@pi.nu
    Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
    .






--------------090305060802020406090404
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    <tt>Chairs, MPLS WG,<br>
      <br>
      Joseph, informs me that he knows of no IPR related to this<br>
      draft. <br>
      <br>
      I think that you now have declarations from all Authors and<br>
      Contributors.<br>
      <br>
      Stewart<br>
    </tt>
    <div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
      -------- Original Message --------
      <table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0" cellpadding="0"
        cellspacing="0">
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
            </th>
            <td>Re: IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
            <td>Mon, 28 Jul 2014 09:37:42 -0700</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
            <td>Joseph Chin (schin) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:schin@cisco.com">&lt;schin@cisco.com&gt;</a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
            <td>Stewart Bryant (stbryant) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">&lt;stbryant@cisco.com&gt;</a></td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
      <br>
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>Hi Stewart,</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I’m not aware of any IPR relevant to this draft no submit
            any CPOC related to this.</div>
          <div>Please let know if you need anymore info.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>Regards,</div>
            <div>Joseph</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
        <div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
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          <span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>"Stewart Bryant
          (stbryant)" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"Stewart
          Bryant (stbryant)" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, July 28,
          2014 at 9:32 AM<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Joseph Chin &lt;<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:schin@cisco.com">schin@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Fwd: IPR poll
          on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
          style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0
          0 0 5;">
          <div>
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br>
              <div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
                <br>
                -------- Original Message --------
                <table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0"
                  cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
                      <td>IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return</td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">Resent-Date: </th>
                      <td>Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:12:54 +0000</td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">Resent-From: </th>
                      <td><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org">&lt;draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org&gt;</a></td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">Resent-To: </th>
                      <td><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:msiva@cisco.com">&lt;msiva@cisco.com&gt;</a>,
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:sagsoni@cisco.com">&lt;sagsoni@cisco.com&gt;</a>,
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">&lt;stbryant@cisco.com&gt;</a>,
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:swallow@cisco.com">&lt;swallow@cisco.com&gt;</a>,
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:loa@pi.nu">&lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;</a>,
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">
                          &lt;rcallon@juniper.net&gt;</a>, <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com">
                          &lt;martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;</a></td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
                      <td>Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:12:50 +0200</td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
                      <td>Loa Andersson <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:loa@pi.nu">&lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;</a></td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
                      <td><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                          href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">&lt;mpls@ietf.org&gt;</a></td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap"
                        valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
                      <td><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                          href="mailto:draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org">draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org</a><a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org">
&lt;draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org&gt;</a>,
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                          href="mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org">&lt;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org&gt;</a>,
                        VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                          href="mailto:martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com">
                          &lt;martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;</a></td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <br>
                <br>
                <pre>Working Group,

This is to start an IPR poll on draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are no IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com">loa@mail01.huawei.com</a>
Senior MPLS Expert                          <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
.

</pre>
                <br>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </span>
      <br>
    </div>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------090305060802020406090404--


From nobody Mon Jul 28 12:34:46 2014
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From: "Venator, Robert H III CIV DISA NS (US)" <robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Loa,

  I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this latest draft.

   Robert Venator

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] 
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:48 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org
Subject: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt

Working Group,

The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told
us that the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.

Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
path-reopt?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] SPRING MPLS and Entropy Label
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--047d7bdc05f2167cfa04ff474165
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> - We need to check whether the top-most label is within the block of
> labels that we are using for this function.
> - If it is, we do a lookup based on the first N-bits to determine the
> next-hop.
>         - if it=E2=80=99s not, we need to do a lookup based on the entire=
 label.
>

=E2=80=8BNope. Sorry.

We always do identical single lookup.

It is that some entries in the LFIB have mask (read: do not care bits).
There are no two lookups nor two tables etc ... That's it. =E2=80=8BTrivial=
 for
anyone who has some min hardware design background :).


Whilst label mask is a potential solution, my view is that we should
> continue to leverage the EL work already done by this WG.
>

=E2=80=8BGreat. Go for it !

/* After all if we would have spend little cycles now and innovate tiny bit
to improve MPLS data plane it would result in better operation and lasting
longer .... ;-) */

Best,
r.=E2=80=8B

--047d7bdc05f2167cfa04ff474165
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">- We need to check whether the =
top-most label is within the block of labels that we are using for this fun=
ction.<br>

- If it is, we do a lookup based on the first N-bits to determine the next-=
hop.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - if it=E2=80=99s not, we need to do a lookup b=
ased on the entire label.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-s=
ize:small">=E2=80=8BNope. Sorry.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">We always do iden=
tical single lookup.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">It is that some e=
ntries in the LFIB have mask (read: do not care bits). There are no two loo=
kups nor two tables etc ... That&#39;s it. =E2=80=8BTrivial for anyone who =
has some min hardware design background :).=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
Whilst label mask is a potential solution, my view is that we should contin=
ue to leverage the EL work already done by this WG.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BGreat. Go=
 for it !=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39=
;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">/* After all if we would have spend littl=
e cycles now and innovate tiny bit to improve MPLS data plane it would resu=
lt in better operation and lasting longer .... ;-) */</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,mon=
ospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace;font-size:small">Best,</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace=
;font-size:small">
r.=E2=80=8B</div></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

--047d7bdc05f2167cfa04ff474165--


From nobody Mon Jul 28 17:31:02 2014
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From: Zhenlong Cui <c-sai@bx.jp.nec.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org" <draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] question on draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements
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Subject: Re: [mpls] question on draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements
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Hi Loa,

Thank you for your question and repeating on the list.

"n>=3Dm" - it's a typical use case of m:n protection, but isn't a limitatio=
n. I apologize for the confusion.
I agree with you that could n be lower, equal or higher than m in the m:n a=
rchitecture.

We will incorporate your comments to the next version of this draft.

BR,
Zhenlong


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:29 PM
> To: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org; mpls@=
ietf.org; Cui Zhenlong(=1B$BVC=1B(B =1B$BDAN6=1B(B)
> Subject: question on draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements
>=20
> Zhenlong,
>=20
> draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements in the mpls wg yesterday.=
 I had a question that was not very clear, I
> try to repeat it here.
>=20
> In slide 3 you say hat that:
>=20
>=20
> "In the m:n architecture, the m backup paths(p1,p2)
>   are sharing backup resource for n working paths, as
>   shown in the following example(modeling)."
>=20
> In slide 5 you say:
>=20
> " The m backup paths should be sharing backup
>    resource for n working paths, where n>=3Dm."
>=20
> It is not entirely clear if you say that n being a lower number is an cos=
t optimization or if it is part of the architecture.
>=20
>  From a strictly architectural could n be lower, equal or higher than m, =
i.e. you can protect m working paths with m+x
> protecting paths. Where x can be any positive or negative number (as long=
 as it give you at least some resources for protection).
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" <tsaad@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 01:24:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Hi Loa,

None, except the IPR pointed by Rakesh below.

Regards,
Tarek

On 2014-07-28, 11:22 AM, "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
wrote:

>Hi Loa,=20
>
>I am aware of one IPR and has been disclosed as follows.
>
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2307/
>
>Thanks,
>Rakesh
>
>
>On 2014-07-26 4:48 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
>
>>Working Group,
>>
>>The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told
>>us that the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.
>>
>>Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
>>as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.
>>
>>This mail starts that IPR poll.
>>
>>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
>>path-reopt?
>>
>>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>
>>Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>
>>If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>>IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
>>document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>>received from each author and contributor.
>>
>>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>>contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>
>>Thanks, Loa
>>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>>--=20
>>
>>
>>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>


From nobody Mon Jul 28 19:40:34 2014
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>,  "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Hi-=20

I am unaware of any IPR other than the one already mentioned by Rakesh.

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "Rakesh Gandhi   (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
Date: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:22 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,
"draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org"
<draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>, "Tarek Saad
(tsaad)" <tsaad@cisco.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>,
"robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil" <robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil>,
"y.kamite@ntt.com" <y.kamite@ntt.com>
Subject: Re: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt

>Hi Loa,=20
>
>I am aware of one IPR and has been disclosed as follows.
>
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2307/
>
>Thanks,
>Rakesh
>
>
>On 2014-07-26 4:48 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
>
>>Working Group,
>>
>>The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told
>>us that the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.
>>
>>Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
>>as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.
>>
>>This mail starts that IPR poll.
>>
>>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
>>path-reopt?
>>
>>If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>
>>Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
>>
>>If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>>this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>>IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
>>document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>>received from each author and contributor.
>>
>>If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>>contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>>IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>
>>Thanks, Loa
>>(as MPLS WG co-chair)
>>--=20
>>
>>
>>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>


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From nobody Tue Jul 29 03:22:28 2014
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Subject: [mpls] Closed: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Working Group,

This adoption poll has been closed; and we have a new working group
document.

Can the authors please publish draft-ietf-mpls-oam-udp-return-00,
without any other changes than the version and date.

/Loa
for the wg chairs

On 2014-07-07 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
>
> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us
> that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus
> to make it a working group document.
>
> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>
> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
> adoption poll.
>
> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
> (mpls@ietf.org)
>
> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>
> /Loa
> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Tue Jul 29 07:53:47 2014
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I do not support the publication of this draft without:

1) An assurance that MPLS WG has reviewed it and is happy
with the extensions that seem to be made to the MPLS architecture

2) A formal description of those extensions or a pointer
to those extensions in another RFC.

3) Significant clarification of how the detail of this
mechanism works.

For this to work you need to have co-ordinated label spaces
in multiple PEs which is something that was investigated
by the SPRING WG and found not to work, particularly when
different manufacturers equipments were involved.

As far as I can see you also need to peek below the top
of stack to do a fast reroute operation which is not
a currently defined MPLS operation.

There seem to be a lot of details and clarifications missing
that need to be provided, and I am not entirely convinced
that all of the items declared out of scope are legitimately
out of scope and not needed in order for a multi-vendor
solution to be implemented.

It would be useful to me (and I suspect to other readers)
to see what the dataplane looks like at various points
in the normal and repair path to verify that all parties
have the right information for this to work under normal
and various fault conditions.

I have a number of comments inline that need to be addressed
before this can proceed.


- Stewart


                   PW Endpoint Fast Failure Protection
               draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01

Abstract

    This document specifies a fast mechanism for protecting pseudowires
    against egress endpoint failures, including egress attachment circuit
    failure, egress PE failure, multi-segment PW terminating PE failure,
    and multi-segment PW switching PE failure.  Designed on the basis of
    multi-homed CE, PW redundancy, upstream label assignment and context
    specific label switching, the mechanism enables local repair to be
    performed by the router upstream adjacent to a failure.

    In
    particular, the router can restore PW traffic in the order of tens of
    milliseconds,

SB> Not sure it's wise to specify a performance claim in a standards
SB> track RFC.

    by transmitting the traffic to a protector through a
    pre-established bypass tunnel.  Therefore, the mechanism can reduce
    traffic loss before global repair reacts to the failure and the
    network converges on the topology changes due to the failure.



===


1.  Introduction

    Per RFC 3985, RFC 4447 and RFC 5659, a pseudowire (PW) or PW segment
    can be thought of as a connection between a pair of forwarders hosted
    by two PEs, carrying an emulated layer-2 service over a packet
    switched network (PSN).  In the single-segment PW (SS-PW) case, a
    forwarder binds a PW to an attachment circuit (AC).  In the multi-
    segment PW (MS-PW) case, a forwarder on a terminating PE (T-PE) binds
    a PW segment to an AC, while a forwarder on a switching PE (S-PE)
    binds one PW segment to another PW segment.  In each direction
    between the PEs, PW packets are transported by a PSN tunnel, which is
    called a transport tunnel.

SB> Did we ever your the term transport tunnel before?


3.  Reference Models and Failure Cases

    The mechanism in this document intends to
    use these topologies for local repair purposes.

SB> The toplology is not a mechanism. Are you saying that the mechanims
SB> only works in this topology?

    This SHALL enable
    local repair and global repair to work in tandem to achieve broader
    coverage of protection for services.

SB> I have no idea how a SHALL in capitals applies here.

3.1.  Single-Segment PW



                   |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 -------------- P1 ---------------- PE2 -
              /                                              \
             /                                                \
          CE1                                                  CE2
             \                                                /
              \                                              /
               - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -

                   |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 1


    Each CE is multi-homed to two PEs.  Hence, there are two divergent
    paths between the CEs.

SB> It does not follow that the paths are divergent! Who knows
SB> what happens in the IP layer and the underlying transport
SB> network.


    At any given time, each CE sends traffic via only one AC and receives
    traffic via only one AC.  The two ACs MAY or MAY NOT be the same.

SB> May not be the same what? If they are actually the same AC you
SB> have no redundancy.

    The AC used to send traffic is determined by the CE, and MAY rely on
    an end-to-end OAM mechanism between the CEs.  The AC used for the CE
    to receive traffic is determined by the state of the network and the
    protection mechanism in use, as described later in this document.

    From the perspective of traffic flowing towards a given CE, the set
    of PWs, PEs and ACs involved can be viewed to serve primary and
    backup (or active and standby) roles.  When the network is in a
    steady state, the PW that is intended to carry the traffic is
    referred to as a primary PW.  The PE at the egress of the primary PW
    is a primary PE.  The AC connecting the CE and the primary PE is a
    primary AC.  The other PW may be used to carry the traffic upon a
    network failure, and is referred to as a backup PW.  The PE at the
    egress of the backup PW is a backup PE.  The AC connecting the CE and
    the backup PE is a backup AC.

    In this document, the following primary and backup roles are assigned
    for the traffic going from CE1 to CE2:

       Primary PW: PW1



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       Primary PE: PE2

       Primary AC: CE2-PE2

       Backup PW: PW2

       Backup PE: PE4

       Backup AC: CE2-PE4

    In this case, an egress AC failure refers to the failure of the AC
    CE2-PE2.  An egress node failure refers to the failure of PE2.

    The backup PE, backup PW and backup AC may be used to carry traffic
    after a PW endpoint failure, when CE1 and CE2 switches traffic to PW2
    in local repair or global repair, as described later in this
    document.

                    |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

                       ------------- P1 ---------------- PE2 -
                      /                                       \
                     /                                         \
           CE1 -- PE1                                          CE2
                     \                                         /
                      \                                       /
                       ------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -

                     |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 2

    Figure 2 shows another possible scenario, where CE1 is single-homed
    to PE1, while CE2 remains multi-homed to PE2 and PE4.  From the
    perspective of egress protection for the traffic from CE1 to CE2,
    this topology is not much different than Figure 1.  However, for the

SB> "not much different than Figure 1" is not helpful, either it is the
same, or you need to explain the difference.

    traffic in the direction from CE2 to CE1, PE1 must anticipate traffic
    on both PW1 and PW2, and sends it to CE1 over the AC CE1-PE1.

SB> What does it mean to anticipate traffic.

3.2.  Multi-Segment PW











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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 -------------- SPE1 --------------- TPE2 -
             /                                                 \
            /                                                   \
         CE1                                                     CE2
            \                                                   /
             \                                                 /
              - TPE3 -------------- SPE2 --------------- TPE4 -

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 3

    Figure 3 shows a topology that is similar to Figure 1 but in an MS-PW
    environment.  PW1 and PW2 are both MS-PWs.  PW1 is established
    between TPE1 and TPE2, and switched between segments SEG1 and SEG2 at
    SPE1.  PW2 is established between TPE3 and TPE4, and switched between
    segments SEG3 and SEG4 at SPE2.  CE1 is multi-homed to TPE1 and TPE3.
    CE2 is multi-homed to TPE2 and TPE4.  The transport tunnels of the PW
    segments are not shown in this figure for clarity.

    In this document, the following primary and backup roles are assigned
    for the traffic going from CE1 to CE2:

       Primary PW: PW1

       Primary T-PE: TPE2

       Primary S-PE: SPE1

       Primary AC: CE2-TPE2

       Backup PW: PW2

       Backup T-PE: TPE4

       Backup S-PE: SPE2

       Backup AC: CE2-TPE4

    In this case, an egress AC failure refers to the failure of the AC
    CE2-TPE2.  An egress node failure refers to the failure of TPE2.  An
    S-PE failure refers to the failure of SPE1.





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    The backup T-PE, backup PW and backup AC are used for protecting the
    primary PW against egress AC failure and egress node failure.  The
    backup S-PE and the backup PW are used for protecting the primary PW
    against S-PE failure, as described later in this document.

    For consistency with the SS-PW scenario, primary T-PEs and a primary
    S-PEs may simply be referred to as primary PEs in this document,
    where specifics is not required.  Similarly, backup T-PEs and backup
    S-PEs may be referred to as backup PEs.

4.  Theory of Operation

    The fast protection mechanism in this document provides three types
    of protection for PWs, corresponding to the three types of failures
    described in Section 1.

    a.  Egress AC protection

    b.  Egress (T-)PE node protection

    c.  S-PE node protection

    The mechanism assumes a multi-homed CE with connectivity to a primary
    PE and a backup PE, and the existence of a backup PW in the network.
    In S-PE node protection, it also assumes the existence of a backup
    S-PE on the backup PW.


SB> Do the PWs need to be symmetric - could you have more
S-PEs on one that you have on the other?

4.1.  Local Repair and Protector

    The mechanism relies on local repair to be performed by routers
SB> Do you mean routers or PEs? Routers of more likely LSRs
operate at a different layer and have no business knowing about
PWs.

SB> Has this work been reviewed my MPLS WG? I am concerned
that you are doing a bunch of layer violation without explaining
the how this is achieved or whether it is acceptable within the
MPLS architecture.

    upstream adjacent to failures.  Each of these routers is referred to
    as a "point of local repair" (PLR).  A PLR MUST be able to detect a
    failure by using a rapid mechanism, such as physical layer failure
    detection, Bidirectional Failure Detection (BFD) (RFC 5880), etc.  In
    anticipation of the failure, the PLR MUST also pre-establish a bypass
    PSN tunnel to a "protector", and pre-install a bypass route in the
    data plane.  The bypass tunnel MUST have the property that it will
    not be affected by the topology changes in the event of the failure.

SB> This is far too imprecise - you need to separate operations and
topologies in the PW layer from operations and topologies in the
PSN layer

SB> In each case you need to be clear how you are detecting failure
by specifying the MEPs and MIPs you are testing.

    Upon detecting the failure, the PLR MUST invoke the bypass route in
    the data plane, and reroute PW traffic to the protector through the
    bypass tunnel.  The protector MUST in turn send the traffic to the
    target CE.

SB> No the protector knows nothing about CEs - they are in the client
layer, and you can only protect at the server layer or the server's
server layer.

    This procedure is referred to as local repair.

    Different routers may serve as PLR and protector in different
    scenarios.

SB> Remember they are not routers - they are xPEs or LSRs.


SB> In each of the following we need to note that these are
not RFC3985 PEs, even if they take no part in the protection
such as the PEs on the left. Indeed I am wondering if you need
to update RFC3985 and RFC5659



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    o  In egress AC protection, the PLR is the primary PE that terminates
       the primary PW and hosts the primary AC, and the protector is the
       backup PE (Figure 4).

                   |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 -------------- P1 ---------------- PE2 -
              /                                         PLR  \
             /                                           |    \
          CE1                                      bypass|     CE2
             \                                           |    /
              \                                          |   /
               - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -
                                                     protector

                   |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 4


    o  In egress PE node protection, the PLR is the penultimate hop
       router of the transport tunnel of the primary PW, and the
       protector is the backup PE (Figure 5).

                   |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 -------------- P1 ------- P3 ----- PE2 -
              /                               PLR \          \
             /                                     \          \
          CE1                                 bypass\          CE2
             \                                       \        /
              \                                       \      /
               - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -
                                                     protector

                   |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 5

SB> Note that it is nothing like as clean as this, if as you later have,
some of P3's traffic needs to go to PE4 and some to PE5.
Also what about the

    o  In S-PE node protection, the PLR is the penultimate hop router of
       the transport tunnel of the primary PW segment, and the protector
       is the backup S-PE (Figure 6).










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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 ----- P4  ----- SPE1 -------------- TPE2 -
             /             PLR \                               \
            /                   \                               \
         CE1               bypass\                               CE2
            \                     \                             /
             \                     \                           /
              - TPE3 --------------- SPE2 -------------- TPE4 -
                                  protector

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 6

    A PLR can realize its role based on configuration or the signaling of
    transport tunnel.  For example, in the case where the transport
    tunnel is signaled by RSVP, the penultimate hop router could realize

SB> Could realize is not sufficient. The mechanism needs to be 
unconditional.

    that it is the PLR for egress (T-)PE or S-PE failure based on the RRO
    in Resv message, which should indicate that the router is one hop
    away from the PE.  The detail of how this could be achieved on a per-
    protocol basis is out of the scope of this document.

SB> So where is it in scope? How do I find out how to do it?

    In all scenarios, when a PLR reroutes traffic through a bypass tunnel
    to a protector during local repair, it MUST keep the label of the
    primary PW intact in the packets.  This obviates the need for the PLR
    to maintain bypass routes on a per-PW basis, and allows a single
    bypass tunnel to carry traffic for multiple PWs.

SB> OK, but didn't I read something about PE protecting subsets of the
egress traffic of other PEs? How would that work without per PW information?

    The procedure also requires that the protector SHOULD be able to
    forward the traffic based on a PW label that is assigned by the
    primary PE, and ensure the traffic to eventually reach the target CE.
    From the protector's perspective, this PW label is an upstream
    assigned label (RFC 5331).

SB> .. but the protector may be a P router and know nothing about
PWs.

    To accomplish this, the protector SHOULD
    learning the PW label from the primary PE prior to the failure, and
    install proper forwarding state for the PW label in a dedicated label
    space for the primary PE.

SB> This is a new PE to P router protocol

    During local repair, the protector SHOULD
    perform PW label lookup in this label space.

SB> This has to be signed off by MPLS WG
SB> How can this only be a SHOULD - why is it not a MUST?
SB> What do you do to ensure that they even have compatible label managers?
SB> Doesn't this mean a P router looking up two labels to do
the repair?


    The above examples have shown the scenarios where the protectors are
    backup (T/S-)PEs.  In other scenarios, a protector may be a dedicated
    router that assumes such role, separate from the backup (T/S-)PE of a
    primary PW.  During local repair, the PLR MUST still reroute traffic
    to the protector through a bypass tunnel.  The protector MUST in turn
    send the traffic to the backup (T/S-)PE, which MUST then send the




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    traffic to the target CE via a backup AC or a backup PW segment.
    More detail will be described in Section 4.3.

4.2.  Context Identifier

    A protector MAY protect multiple primary PEs.

SB> This requires that a P router knows about PWs - how does
it do that?

    The protector MUST
    maintain a separate label space for each primary PE.  Likewise, the
    PWs terminated on a primary PE MAY be protected by multiple
    protectors, each for a subset of the PWs.  In any case, a given
    primary PW SHOULD be associated with one and only one pair of
    {primary PE, protector}.

    An IPv4/v6 address is assigned to each ordered pair of {primary PE,
    protector} to facilitate protection establishment.  This address is
    referred to as a "context identifier".  It MUST be globally unique,
    or unique in the address space of the network where the primary PE
    and the protector reside.

SB> I think you need to make clear that this is not backwards compatible
with existing PW PEs.

SB> You also need to explain how the IP based context identifier
mechanism works. Is it in the control plane or the data plane?

4.2.1.  Semantics

    The semantics of a context identifier is twofold.

    o  It identifies a primary PE and an associated protector.  In other
       words, it identifies a primary PE on a per protector basis.  A
       given primary PE may be protected by multiple protectors, each for
       a subset of the primary PWs terminated on the primary PE.  A
       distinct context identifier MUST be assigned to the primary PE and
       each protector.

       For each primary PW, its ingress PE MUST set up or resolve a
       transport tunnel with destination as the context identifier of the
       {primary PE, protector}, rather than a private IP address of the
       primary PE.  This not only allows the transport tunnel to reach
       the primary PE, but also conveys the identity of the protector to
       the PLR(s) along the transport tunnel.  Each PLR can in turn use
       this information to set up a bypass tunnel to the protector
       without relying on local configuration.

    o  It indentifies the primary PE's label space on the protector.  The
       protector may protect PWs for multiple primary PEs.  For each
       primary PE, it MUST maintain a separate label space to store the
       PW labels assigned by that primary PE.  It MUST associate a PW
       label with a label space via the context identifier of the
       {primary PE, protector}, as described below.

SB> Is this context identifier an IP address or an MPLS label? Where
is it carried?

       In addition to the normal LDP PW signaling, the primary PE MUST
       have a targeted LDP session with the protector, and advertise PW
       labels to the protector via LDP Label Mapping messages (See



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       Section 5 for detail).  The primary PE MUST attach the context
       identifier to each message.  Upon receiving the message, the
       protector MUST install the advertised PW label in the label space
       identified by the context identifier.

SB> I am currently confused about how a data packet carries the PW
label provided by another PE.

       When a PLR sets up or resolve a bypass tunnel to the protector, it
       MUST set the destination to the context identifier, rather than a
       private IP address of the protector.  Once established, the bypass
       tunnel, with either its MPLS label or IP tunnel destination
       address, is used as the identifier of label space.  On the
       protector, all PW packets received on the bypass tunnel MUST be
       forwarded based on a label lookup in that label space.

SB> I do not understand the data plane structure that the above sentence
is describing.

4.2.2.  Advertisement and Path Computation

    Using a context identifier as destination for both transport tunnel
    and bypass tunnel requires both the primary PE and the protector to
    advertise the context identifier via IGP as an IP address reachable
    through both routers in routing domain and/or TE domain.  This
    imposes the following requirements on path computation for these
    tunnels.

    o  For the transport tunnel, the ingress PE MUST choose the primary
       PE as the actual endpoint.

    o  For the bypass tunnel, the PLR MUST choose the protector as the
       actual endpoint.  In egress (T-)PE node protection and S-PE node
       protection, the bypass tunnel MUST avoid the primary (S-)PE.

    The detail of how the primary PE and the protector may advertise a
    context identifier is independent of this mechanism and out of the
    scope of this document.

SB> Given that you give signalling data structures later, I am confused
as to how this can be out of scope of this text. Surely this is needed
to implement an interoperable solution?

    One approach would be to advertise it as a
    virtual proxy node connected to both routers, with the link between
    the proxy node and the primary PE having a more preferable IGP or TE
    metric than the link between the proxy node and the protector.  The
    ultimate goal is for a path computation algorithm, such as CSPF
    (constrained shortest path first), LFA (RFC 5286) and MRT ([IP-LDP-
    FRR-MRT]), to be able to compute the paths that meet the above
    requirements.

4.3.  Protection Models

    There are two protection models based on the location of a protector.
    A network MAY use either model, or a combination of both.







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4.3.1.  Co-located Protector

    In this model, the protector is a backup PE that is directly
    connected to the target CE via a backup AC, or it is a backup S-PE on
    a backup PW.  That is, the protector is co-located with the backup
    (S-)PE.  Examples of this model have been introduced in Figure 4,
    Figure 5 and Figure 6 in Section 4.1.

    In egress AC protection and egress PE node protection, when a
    protector receives traffic from the PLR, it forwards the traffic to
    the CE via the backup AC.  This is shown in Figure 7, where PE2 is
    the PLR for egress AC failure, P3 is the PLR for PE2 failure, and PE4
    (the backup PE) is the protector.

                  |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

              - PE1 -------------- P1 ------- P3 ----- PE2 ----
             /                               PLR \     PLR     \
            /                                     \     |       \
         CE1                                 bypass\    |bypass  CE2
            \                                       \   |       /
             \                                       \  |      /
              - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 ----
                                                protector

                  |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 7

    In S-PE node protection, when a protector receives traffic from the
    PLR, it MUST forward the traffic via the next segment of the backup
    PW.  The T-PE of the backup PW MUST in turn forward the traffic to
    the CE via a backup AC.  This is shown in Figure 8, where P4 is the
    PLR for SPE1 failure, and SPE2 (the backup S-PE) is the protector for
    SPE1.
















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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 ----- P4  ----- SPE1 -------------- TPE2 -
             /             PLR \                               \
            /                   \                               \
         CE1               bypass\                               CE2
            \                     \                             /
             \                     \                           /
              - TPE3 --------------- SPE2 -------------- TPE4 -
                              protector

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 8

    In the co-located protector model, the number of context identifiers
    needed by a network is the number of distinct {primary PE, backup PE}
    pairs.  From the perspective of scalability, the model is suitable
    for networks where the number of backup PEs for any given primary PE
    is relatively small.

4.3.2.  Centralized Protector

    In this model, the protector is a dedicated P router or PE router
    that serves the role.  In egress AC protection and egress PE node
    protection, the protector MAY or MAY NOT be a backup PE with a direct
    connection to the target CE.  In S-PE node protection, the protector
    MAY or MAY NOT be a backup S-PE on the backup PW.

    In egress AC protection and egress PE node protection, when the
    protector receives traffic from the PLR, if the protector has a
    direct connection (i.e. backup AC) to the CE, it MUST forward the
    traffic to the CE via the backup AC, which is similar to Figure 7.
    Otherwise, it MUST forward the traffic to a backup PE, which MUST
    then forward the traffic to the CE via a backup AC.  This is shown in
    Figure 9, where the protector receives traffic from P3 (the PLR for
    egress PE failure) or PE2 (the PLR for egress AC failure) and
    forwards the traffic to PE4 (the backup PE).  The protector may be
    protecting other PWs as well, which is not shown in this figure for
    clarity.

SB> If you are going to cover the shared case, I think you need to
make it much clearer how the PWs are identified from the received
data packets.








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                   |<------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 ------------- P1 ------- P3 ----- PE2 --
              /                              PLR \     PLR   \
             /                                    \     /     \
            /                                bypass\   /bypass \
           /                                        \ /         \
        CE1                                      protector       CE2
           \                                         \          /
            \                                         \        /
             \                                         \      /
              \                                         \    /
               - PE3 ------------- P2 -----------------PE4 --

                   |<------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 9

    In S-PE node protection, when the protector receives traffic from the
    PLR, if the protector is a backup S-PE of the backup PW, it MUST
    forward the traffic via the next segment of the backup PW, and the
    T-PE of the backup PW MUST forward the traffic to the CE via a backup
    AC, which is similar to Figure 8.  Otherwise, the protector MUST
    first forward the traffic to the backup S-PE, which MUST then forward
    the traffic via the next segment of the backup PW.  Finally, the T-PE
    of the backup PW MUST forward the traffic to the CE via a backup AC.
    This is shown in Figure 10, where the protector forwards traffic to
    SPE2 (the backup S-PE), SPE2 forwards the traffic to TPE4 via SEG4,
    and TPE4 finally forwards traffic to CE2.  The protector may be
    protecting other PW segments as well, which is not shown in this
    figure for clarity.




















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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 ----- P4  ----- SPE1 -------------- TPE2 -
             /             PLR \                               \
            /                   \                               \
           /               bypass\                               \
          /                       \                               \
       CE1                     protector                           CE2
          \                        \                              /
           \                        \                            /
            \                        \                          /
             \                        \                        /
              - TPE3 --------------- SPE2 -------------- TPE4 -

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 10

    The centralized protector model provides the convenience for multiple
    primary PEs to share one protector.  Each primary PE MAY only need
    the one protector to protect all of its PWs.  From the perspective of
    scalability, the number of context identifiers needed by a network
    MAY be bound to the number of primary PEs.

4.4.  Transport Tunnel

    The ingress PE of a primary PW associates the PW with the primary
    egress PE through LDP signaling.  In addition, as mentioned in
    Section 4.2.1, the ingress PE MUST associate the transport tunnel of
    the PW with the context identifier of the {primary PE, protector},
    and set up or resolve the transport tunnel by using the context
    identifier as destination.  This not only ensures that PW traffic be
    transported to the primary PE, but also facilitates bypass tunnel
    establishment at PLR(s), as the context identifier implies the
    identity of the protector as well.  This is also the case for a
    multi-segment PW, where the ingress PE and egress PE are T/S-PEs.

    The association between the transport tunnel and the context
    identifier at the ingress PE MAY be achieved by configuration or an
    auto-discovery mechanism.  In the later case, the ingress PE MAY
    learn the context identifier from the primary (egress) PE, if the
    primary PE advertises the context identifier as "third party next
    hop" in IPv4/v6 Interface_ID  (RFC 3471, RFC 3472) in the LDP
    Label Mapping message of the primary PW.





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4.5.  Bypass Tunnel

    A PLR may protect multiple PWs associated with one or multiple pairs
    of {primary PE, protector}. The PLR MUST establish a bypass tunnel to
    each protector for each distinct context identifier associated with
    that protector.  The destination of the bypass tunnel MUST be the
    context identifier (Section 4.2.1).  The PLR may derive the context
    identifier from the destination of the transport tunnel that
    traverses it.

    For examples, in Figure 7 and Figure 9, a bypass tunnel is
    established from PE2 (PLR for egress AC failure) to the protector,
    and another bypass tunnel is established from P3 (PLR for egress node
    failure) to the protector.  In Figure 8 and Figure 10, a bypass
    tunnel is established from P4 (PLR for S-PE failure) to the
    protector.

    During local repair, the PLR reroutes traffic to the protector
    through a bypass tunnel with PW label intact in the packets.  This
    normally involves pushing a label to the label stack, if the bypass
    tunnel is an MPLS tunnel, or pushing an IP header to the packets, if
    the bypass tunnel is an IP tunnel.

SB> Surely it is normally a swap?

SB> I am somewhat confused about what this all looks like when this is
IP. The only PS/IP other than for SATOP are defined by L2TPv3 WG.
There is no IP MS-PW definition that I am aware of. I think you need
to be much clearer about what is going on when you discuss PW over IP 
egress repair.

    The protector MUST in turn
    forward the traffic based on the PW label.  To achieve such kind of
    forwarding, the protector MUST rely on the bypass tunnel as a context
    to determine the primary PE's label space.  If the bypass tunnel is
    an MPLS tunnel, the protector MUST have assigned a non-reserved label
    to the bypass tunnel during the establishment of the bypass tunnel,
    and hence this label can serve as the context.  If the bypass tunnel
    is an IP tunnel, the protector can simply rely on the context
    identifier carried as the destination address in IP header.

    A bypass tunnel MUST have the property that it is not affected by the
    topology changes caused by the failure.  Therefore, it can be used to
    transmit traffic for local repair.  It SHOULD remain effective, until
    the traffic is moved to another fully functional egress AC, PW and/or
    transport tunnel.

4.6.  Forwarding State on Protector

    A protector MUST learn PW labels from all the primary PEs that it
    protects (Section 5.2), and maintain the PW labels in respective
    label spaces of the primary PEs.  In the control plane, a label space
    is identified by the context identifier of a pair of {primary PE,
    protector}. In the forwarding plane, it is indicated by the bypass
    tunnel(s) destined for the context identifier.

SB> Are you saying that this mechanism mandates no PHP?






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4.6.1.  Examples of Co-located Protector

    In Figure 7, PE4 is a co-located protector that protects PW1 against
    egress AC failure and egress node failure.  It maintains a label
    space for PE2, which is identified by the context identifier of {PE2,
    PE4}. It learns PW1's label from PE2, and installs an forwarding
    entry for the label in that label space.  The nexthop of the
    forwarding entry indicates a label pop with outgoing interface
    pointing to the backup AC CE2-PE4.

SB> I am not sure what you are describing in the above. Is this an
MPLS operation or a PW operation. If the latter it is not a simple
label pop.

    In Figure 8, SPE2 is a co-located protector that protects PW1 against
    S-PE failure.  It maintains a label space for SPE1, which is
    identified by the context identifier of {SPE1, SPE2}. It learns
    SEG1's label from SPE1, and installs a forwarding entry in the label
    space.  The nexthop of the forwarding entry indicates a label swap to
    SEG4's label.

4.6.2.  Examples of Centralized Protector

    In the centralized protector model, for each primary PW of which the
    protector is not a backup (S-)PE, the protector MUST also learn the
    label of the backup PW from the backup (S-)PE (Section 5.3).  This is
    the backup (S-)PE that the protector will forward traffic to.  The
    protector MUST install a forwarding entry with label swap from the
    primary PW's label to the backup PW's label.

    In Figure 9, the protector is a centralized protector that protects
    PW1 against egress AC failure and egress node failure.  It maintains
    a label space for PE2, which is identified by the context identifier
    of {PE2, protector}. It learns PW1's label from PE2, and PW2's label
    from PE4.  It installs a forwarding entry for PW1's label in the
    label space.  The nexthop of the forwarding entry indicates a label
    swap to PW2's label.

    In Figure 10, the protector is a centralized protector that protects
    the PW segment SEG1 of PW1 against the node failure of SPE1.  It
    maintains a label space for SPE1, which is identified by the context
    identifier of {SPE1, protector}. It learns SEG1's label from SPE1,
    and learns SEG3's label from SPE2.  It installs a forwarding entry
    for SEG1's label in the label space.  The nexthop of the forwarding
    entry indicates a label swap to SEG3's label.

5.  LDP Extensions

    As described in previous sections, a targeted LDP session MUST be
    established between each pair of primary PE and protector.  The
    primary PE sends Label Mapping message over this session to advertise
    primary PW labels to the protector.  In the centralized protector



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    model, a targeted LDP session MUST also be established between a
    backup (S-)PE and a protector.  The backup PE sends Label Mapping
    message over this session to advertise backup PW labels to the
    protector.

    To facilitate the procedures, this document defines a new "Protection
    FEC Element" TLV.  The Label Mapping messages of both the LDP
    sessions above MUST carry this TLV to indicate the identity of a
    primary PW.  Specifically, in the centralized protector model, the
    Protection FEC Element TLV advertised by a backup (S-)PE MUST match
    the one advertised by the primary PE, so that the protector can
    associate the primary PW's label with the backup PW's label, and
    perform a label swap.

    This document also defines the encoding of Capability Parameter TLV
    (RFC 5561) for a new "Egress Protection Capability", to allow a
    protector to announce its capability of processing the above
    Protection FEC Element TLV and performing context specific label
    switching for PW labels.

    The procedures in this section are only applicable, if the protector
    advertises the Egress Protection Capability, the primary PE supports
    the advertisement of the Protection FEC Element TLV, and in the
    centralized protector model, the backup PE also supports the
    advertisement of the Protection FEC Element TLV.

5.1.  Egress Protection Capability TLV

    A protector MUST advertise the Egress Protection Capability TLV in
    its Initialization message and Capability message, over the LDP
    session with a primary PE.  In the centralized protector model, the
    protector MUST also advertise the TLV over the LDP session with a
    backup PE.  The TLV carries one or multiple context identifiers.  To
    the primary PE, the TLV SHOULD carry the context identifier of the
    {primary PE, protector}. In the centralized protector model, the TLV
    SHOULD carry to the backup PE multiple context identifiers, one for
    each {primary PE, protector} where the backup PE serves as a backup
    for the primary PE.  This TLV SHOULD NOT be advertised by the primary
    PE or the backup PE to the protector.

    The processing of the Egress Protection Capability TLV by a receiving
    router SHOULD follow the procedures defined in RFC 5561.  In
    particular, the router SHOULD advertise PW information to the
    protector by using the Protection FEC Element TLV, only after it has
    received the Egress Protection Capability TLV from the protector.  It
    SHOULD validate each context identifier included in the TLV, and
    advertise the information of only those PWs that are associated with
    the context identifier.  It SHOULD withdraw previously advertised



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    Protection FEC TLVs, when the protector has withdrawn a previously
    advertised context identifier or the entire Egress Protection
    Capability TLV via Capability message.

    The encoding of the Egress Protection Capability TLV is defined as
    below.  It conforms to the format of Capability Parameter TLV
    specified in RFC 5561.

       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |U|F|  Egress Protection (TBD)  |              Length           |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |S| Reserved    |                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                               |
      |                                                               |
      ~                Capability Data = context identifier(s)        ~
      |                                                               |
      |                                               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 11

    The U-bit MUST be set to 1 so that a receiver MUST silently ignore
    this TLV if unknown to it, and continue processing the rest of the
    message.

    The F-bit MUST be set to 0 since this TLV is sent only in
    Initialization and Capability messages, which are not forwarded.

    The TLV Code Point is TBD.  It needs to be assigned by IANA.

    The S-bit indicates whether the sender is advertising (S=1) or
    withdrawing (S=0) the capability.

    The "Capability Data" is encoded with the context identifier of the
    {primary PE, protector}.

SB> where is the structure of {primary PE, protector} defined?

5.2.  PW Label Distribution from Primary PE to Protector

    A primary PE SHOULD advertise a primary PW's label to a protector by
    sending a Label Mapping message.  The message includes a Protection
    FEC Element TLV (see Section 5.4 for encoding), and an Upstream-
    Assigned Label TLV (RFC 6389) encoded with the PW's label.  The
    combination of the Protection FEC Element TLV and the PW label
    represents the primary PE's forwarding state for the PW.  The Label
    Mapping message SHOULD also carry an IPv4/v6 Interface_ID TLV (RFC



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    6389, RFC 3471) encoded with the context identifier of the {primary
    PE, protector}.

    The protector that receives this Label Mapping message SHOULD install
    a forwarding entry for the PW label in the label space identified by
    the context identifier.  The nexthop of the forwarding entry SHOULD
    ensure packets to be sent towards the target CE via a backup AC or a
    backup (S-)PE, depending on the protection scenario.  The protector
    SHOULD silently discard a Label Mapping message if the included
    context identifier is unknown to it.

5.3.  PW Label Distribution from Backup PE to Protector

    In the centralized protector model, a backup PE SHOULD advertise a
    backup PW's label to a protector by sending a Label Mapping message.
    The message includes a Protection FEC Element TLV and a Generic Label
    TLV encoded with the backup PW's label.  This Protection FEC Element
    MUST be identical to the Protection FEC Element TLV that the primary
    PE advertises to the protector (Section 5.2).  The context identifier
    SHOULD NOT be encoded in Interface_ID TLV in this message.

    The protector that receives this Label Mapping message SHOULD
    associate the backup PW with the primary PW, based on the common
    Protection FEC Element TLV.  It SHOULD distinguish between the Label
    Mapping message from the primary PE and the Label Mapping message
    from the backup PE based on the respective presence and absence of
    context identifier in Interface_ID TLV.  It SHOULD install a
    forwarding entry for the primary PW's label in the label space
    identified by the context identifier.  The nexthop of the forwarding
    entry SHOULD indicate a label swap to the backup PW's label, followed
    by a label push or IP header push for a transport tunnel to the
    backup PE.

5.4.  Protection FEC Element TLV

    The Protection FEC Element TLV has type 0x83.  Its format is defined
    as below:














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       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   Type(0x83)  |    Reserved   | Encoding Type |    Length     |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                                                               |
      |                                                               |
      ~                         PW Information                        ~
      |                                                               |
      |                               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 12

    - Encoding Type

       Type of format that PW Information field is encoded.

    - Length

       Length of PW Information field in octets.

    - PW Information

       Field of variable length that specifies a PW

    For Encoding Type, 1 is defined for the PWid FEC Element format, and
    2 is defined for the Generalized PWid FEC Element format (RFC 4447).


5.4.1.  Encoding Format for PWid




















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       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   Type(0x83)  |    Reserved   |  Enc Type(1)  |   Length(16)  |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                      Ingress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       Egress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                            Group ID                           |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                             PW ID                             |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |C|           PW Type           |           Reserved            |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 13

    - Ingress PE Address

       IP address of the ingress PE of PW.

    - Egress PE Address

       IP address of the egress PE of PW.

SB> How does this work for IPv6?

    - Group ID

       An arbitrary 32-bit value that represents a group of PWs and that
       is used to create groups in the PW space.

    - PW ID

       A non-zero 32-bit connection ID that, together with the PW Type
       field, identifies a particular PW.

    - Control word bit (C)

       A bit that flags the presence of a control word on this PW.  If C
       = 1, control word is present; If C = 0, control word is not
       present.

    - PW Type

       A 15-bit quantity that represents the type of PW.

SB> Needs a ref




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5.4.2.  Encoding Format for Generalized PWid

       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   Type(0x83)  |    Reserved   |  Enc Type(2)  |   Length      |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                      Ingress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       Egress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |C|           PW Type           |           Reserved            |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   AGI Type    |    Length     |      Value                    |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                    AGI  Value (contd.)                        ~
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   AII Type    |    Length     |      Value                    |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                   SAII  Value (contd.)                        ~
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   AII Type    |    Length     |      Value                    |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                   TAII Value (contd.)                         ~
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 14

    - Ingress PE Address

       IP address of the ingress PE of PW.

    - Egress PE Address

       IP address of the egress PE of PW.

SB> IPv6?

    - Control word bit (C)

       A bit that flags the presence of a control word on this PW.  If C
       = 1, control word is present; If C = 0, control word is not
       present.

    - PW Type

       A 15-bit quantity that represents the type of PW.



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    - AGI Type, Length, Value, AGI Value

       Attachment Group Identifier of PW.

    - SAII Type, Length, Value, SAII Value

       Source Attachment Individual Identifier of PW.

    - TAII Type, Length, Value, TAII Value

       Target Attachment Individual Identifier of PW.

6.  Revertive Behavior

    Subsequent to local repair, there are three strategies for the
    network to restore traffic to a fully functional PW.

    o  Global revertive mode

       If the ingress CE is multi-homed (Figure 1), it MAY switch the
       traffic to a backup AC which is bound to a backup PW.
       Alternatively, if the ingress PE hosts a backup PW (Figure 2), the
       ingress PE MAY switch the traffic to the backup PW.  These
       procedures are referred to as global repair.  Possible triggers of
       a global repair include PW status, OAM, and BFD.

    o  Control plane revertive mode

       In egress PE node protection and S-PE node protection, it is
       possible that the failure is limited to the link between the PLR
       and the primary (S-)PE, whereas the primary (S-)PE is still up.
       In this case, the PLR or an upstream router along the transport
       tunnel MAY reroute the tunnel around the failed link via an
       alternative path.  Thus, the transport tunnel can continue to be
       used to carry the PW traffic to the primary (S-)PE.  This
       procedure is driven by control plane convergence, and is referred
       to as control plane repair.

    o  Local revertive mode

       The PLR MAY move traffic back to the primary PW, after the failure
       is resolved.  In egress AC protection, upon detecting that the
       primary AC is restored, the PLR MAY start forwarding traffic over
       the AC again.  Likewise, in egress PE node protection and S-PE
       node protection, upon detecting that the primary PE is restored,
       the PLR MAY re-establish the primary transport tunnel through the
       primary PE, and move the traffic from the bypass tunnel back to




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       the transport tunnel.  These procedures are referred to as local
       reversion.

    The fast protection mechanism in this document SHOULD be used in
    tandem with the global revertive mode.  Particularly in the case of
    egress (S-)PE failure, if the ingress PE or the protector loses
    communication with the (S-)PE for an extensive period of time, the
    LDP session between them may go down.  Consequently, the ingress PE
    may bring down the primary PW, or the protector may remove the
    forwarding entry of the primary PW label.  In either case, the
    service will be disrupted.  In other words, although the fast
    protection can temporarily repair traffic, control plane state may
    eventually be timed out if the failure persists.  Therefore, it is
    recommended that the global revertive mode SHOULD be set up in
    advance, so that traffic can be moved to a fully functional backup PW
    shortly after the local repair.

    The control plane revertive mode may always happen as part of the
    convergence of control plane protocols.  However, it is only
    applicable to the specific scenarios described above.

    The local revertive mode is optional.  In the circumstances where the
    failure is caused by resource flapping, local reversion MAY be
    dampened to limit potential disruptions.  Local revertive mode MAY be
    disabled completely by configuration.

7.  IANA Considerations

    This document defines the encoding of the Capability Parameter TLV
    for the new "Egress Protection Capability" in Section 5.  This would
    require IANA to assign a TLV Code Point to it.

    This document defines a new LDP Protection FEC Element TLV in
    Section 5.  IANA has assigned the type value 0x83 to it.

SB> I am very confused about what explicit actions you are asking IANA 
to take. Are you saying that there are no IANA actions?

8.  Security Considerations

    The security considerations discussed in RFC 5036, RFC 5331, RFC
    3209, and RFC 4090 apply to this document.

SB> Are there any PW security considerations that apply?

SB> This is a new PW operational mode, so I am surprised that there are
no new security considerations. An early security review might be useful.



From nobody Tue Jul 29 08:51:03 2014
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Loa

I submitted as draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return

See the review comment by Eric

The content is about PM so Eric is correct.

Stewart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:09 +0000
From: Osborne, Eric <eric.osborne@level3.com>
To: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>, "zzhang@juniper.net" 
<zzhang@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha" 
<mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" 
<mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN" 
<martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, 
"draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org" 
<draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org>


<snip>

Nit: the draft is ‘draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return’ but the doc title 
suggests that ‘draft-bryan-mpls-pm-udp-return’ would make more sense.

<snip>

==========

On 29/07/2014 11:22, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> This adoption poll has been closed; and we have a new working group
> document.
>
> Can the authors please publish draft-ietf-mpls-oam-udp-return-00,
> without any other changes than the version and date.
>
> /Loa
> for the wg chairs
>
> On 2014-07-07 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:
>> Working Group,
>>
>>
>> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us
>> that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus
>> to make it a working group document.
>>
>> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>>
>> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
>> adoption poll.
>>
>> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>>
>> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
>> (mpls@ietf.org)
>>
>> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>>
>> /Loa
>> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>>
>


-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html


From nobody Tue Jul 29 09:11:58 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : MPLS Performance Measurement UDP Return Path
        Authors         : Stewart Bryant
                          Siva Sivabalan
                          Sagar Soni
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return-00.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2014-07-29

Abstract:
   This document specifies the proceedure to be used by the Packet Loss
   and Delay Measurement for MPLS Networks protocol defined in RFC6374
   when sending and processing MPLS performance management out-of-band
   responses for delay and loss measurements over an IP/UDP return path.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Tue Jul 29 09:23:32 2014
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:23:26 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Ack!

/Loa

On 2014-07-29 17:48, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> Loa
>
> I submitted as draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return
>
> See the review comment by Eric
>
> The content is about PM so Eric is correct.
>
> Stewart
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
> Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:41 +0000
> Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
> Resent-To: <msiva@cisco.com>, <sagsoni@cisco.com>, <stbryant@cisco.com>,
> <swallow@cisco.com>, <loa@pi.nu>, <rcallon@juniper.net>,
> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:09 +0000
> From: Osborne, Eric <eric.osborne@level3.com>
> To: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>, "zzhang@juniper.net"
> <zzhang@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha"
> <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
> <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN"
> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
> "draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org"
> <draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Nit: the draft is ‘draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return’ but the doc title
> suggests that ‘draft-bryan-mpls-pm-udp-return’ would make more sense.
>
> <snip>
>
> ==========
>
> On 29/07/2014 11:22, Loa Andersson wrote:
>> Working Group,
>>
>> This adoption poll has been closed; and we have a new working group
>> document.
>>
>> Can the authors please publish draft-ietf-mpls-oam-udp-return-00,
>> without any other changes than the version and date.
>>
>> /Loa
>> for the wg chairs
>>
>> On 2014-07-07 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:
>>> Working Group,
>>>
>>>
>>> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us
>>> that the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus
>>> to make it a working group document.
>>>
>>> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>>>
>>> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
>>> adoption poll.
>>>
>>> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>>>
>>> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
>>> (mpls@ietf.org)
>>>
>>> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>>>
>>> /Loa
>>> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Tue Jul 29 09:51:42 2014
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Closed: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Dear Stewart, et. al,
I think that Performance Measurement includes a broader set of measurements=
 than Delay and Loss, e.g. Throughput, Available Bandwidth. I think that ch=
aracterizing RFC 6374 and its extensions as the MPLS PM RFC is not entirely=
 accurate. These documents add to overall solution of the MPLS PM but do no=
t address all its aspects.

	Regards,
		Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:48 AM
To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Closed: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-br=
yant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document

Loa

I submitted as draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return

See the review comment by Eric

The content is about PM so Eric is correct.

Stewart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:41 +0000
Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
Resent-To: <msiva@cisco.com>, <sagsoni@cisco.com>, <stbryant@cisco.com>, <s=
wallow@cisco.com>, <loa@pi.nu>, <rcallon@juniper.net>, <martin.vigoureux@al=
catel-lucent.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:09 +0000
From: Osborne, Eric <eric.osborne@level3.com>
To: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>, "zzhang@juniper.net"=20
<zzhang@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha"=20
<mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"=20
<mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN"=20
<martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
"draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org"=20
<draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org>


<snip>

Nit: the draft is 'draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return' but the doc title sugg=
ests that 'draft-bryan-mpls-pm-udp-return' would make more sense.

<snip>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

On 29/07/2014 11:22, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> This adoption poll has been closed; and we have a new working group=20
> document.
>
> Can the authors please publish draft-ietf-mpls-oam-udp-return-00,
> without any other changes than the version and date.
>
> /Loa
> for the wg chairs
>
> On 2014-07-07 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:
>> Working Group,
>>
>>
>> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us that=20
>> the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus to make=20
>> it a working group document.
>>
>> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>>
>> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the=20
>> adoption poll.
>>
>> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>>
>> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
>> (mpls@ietf.org)
>>
>> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>>
>> /Loa
>> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>>
>


--
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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Hi Loa,

I am not aware of any other IPRs for this draft.

Best regards,
-Yuji


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) [mailto:rgandhi@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:22 AM
> To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
> draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org; Tarek Saad
> (tsaad); Zafar Ali (zali); robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil; Yuji Kamite
> $B!J>e<jM4<#!K(B
> Subject: Re: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
> 
> Hi Loa,
> 
> I am aware of one IPR and has been disclosed as follows.
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2307/
> 
> Thanks,
> Rakesh
> 
> 
> On 2014-07-26 4:48 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> 
> >Working Group,
> >
> >The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told us that
> >the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.
> >
> >Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document as
> >a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.
> >
> >This mail starts that IPR poll.
> >
> >Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
> >path-reopt?
> >
> >If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> >(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
> >
> >Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.
> >
> >If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> >this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> >IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
> >document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> >received from each author and contributor.
> >
> >If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> >contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
> >any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
> >
> >Thanks, Loa
> >(as MPLS WG co-chair)
> >--
> >
> >
> >Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> >Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> >Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 30 03:09:45 2014
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Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03 as an MPLS working group
document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

There is one IPR claim against this document.

The authors and contributors has stated on the working group mailing
list that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.

However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
this is now.

This poll ends August 14, 2014.

/Loa

for the MPLS wg co-chairs
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 30 04:45:20 2014
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Cc: "draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org" <draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Closed: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
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Greg,

The new name was recommended during WG adoption
and I am sure I said I would make the change. No one
commented at the time.

I am more than willing to change the draft name again if that
is the consensus. However I would like to do so before making
substantive changes to the text.

I await the instructions of the chairs.

Stewart

On 29/07/2014 17:51, Gregory Mirsky wrote:
> Dear Stewart, et. al,
> I think that Performance Measurement includes a broader set of measurements than Delay and Loss, e.g. Throughput, Available Bandwidth. I think that characterizing RFC 6374 and its extensions as the MPLS PM RFC is not entirely accurate. These documents add to overall solution of the MPLS PM but do not address all its aspects.
>
> 	Regards,
> 		Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:48 AM
> To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
> Cc: draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Closed: Poll to see if we have support to make draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return an mpls working group document
>
> Loa
>
> I submitted as draft-ietf-mpls-pm-udp-return
>
> See the review comment by Eric
>
> The content is about PM so Eric is correct.
>
> Stewart
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return
> Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:41 +0000
> Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
> Resent-To: <msiva@cisco.com>, <sagsoni@cisco.com>, <stbryant@cisco.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, <loa@pi.nu>, <rcallon@juniper.net>, <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:31:09 +0000
> From: Osborne, Eric <eric.osborne@level3.com>
> To: Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>, "zzhang@juniper.net"
> <zzhang@juniper.net>, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha"
> <mustapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
> <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN"
> <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
> "draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org"
> <draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return@tools.ietf.org>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Nit: the draft is 'draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return' but the doc title suggests that 'draft-bryan-mpls-pm-udp-return' would make more sense.
>
> <snip>
>
> ==========
>
> On 29/07/2014 11:22, Loa Andersson wrote:
>> Working Group,
>>
>> This adoption poll has been closed; and we have a new working group
>> document.
>>
>> Can the authors please publish draft-ietf-mpls-oam-udp-return-00,
>> without any other changes than the version and date.
>>
>> /Loa
>> for the wg chairs
>>
>> On 2014-07-07 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:
>>> Working Group,
>>>
>>>
>>> The authors of draft-bryant-mpls-oam-udp-return has informed us that
>>> the draft is ready to be polled to see if we have consensus to make
>>> it a working group document.
>>>
>>> This mail starts a two week adoption poll.
>>>
>>> We have not yet done the IPR poll, it will be done in parallel to the
>>> adoption poll.
>>>
>>> There are no IPR disclosed against this draft.
>>>
>>> Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list
>>> (mpls@ietf.org)
>>>
>>> This adoption poll ends Juli 21, 2014!
>>>
>>> /Loa
>>> for the mpls wg co-chairs
>>>
>
> --
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> .
>


-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html


From nobody Wed Jul 30 05:54:32 2014
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org" <draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Support (as a co-author),

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:09 AM
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
<mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux
<martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>,
"draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org"
<draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: poll to see if we have support to make
draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
Resent-To: <rgandhi@cisco.com>, "robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil"
<robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil>, <tsaad@cisco.com>, "y.kamite@ntt.com"
<y.kamite@ntt.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa
Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, <rcallon@juniper.net>, Martin Vigoureux
<martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:09 AM

>Working Group,
>
>This is to start a two week poll on adopting
>draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03 as an MPLS working group
>document.
>
>Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
>group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical
>motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
>the document should not be adopted as a working group document.
>
>There is one IPR claim against this document.
>
>The authors and contributors has stated on the working group mailing
>list that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
>
>However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
>aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
>this is now.
>
>This poll ends August 14, 2014.
>
>/Loa
>
>for the MPLS wg co-chairs
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 30 05:56:45 2014
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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org" <draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:56:40 +0000
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Cc: "Zafar Ali \(zali\)" <zali@cisco.com>, "robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil" <robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil>
Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Hi WG,

Support (as co-author).

We have implemented this draft in a released software.

Thanks,
Rakesh


On 2014-07-30 6:09 AM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Working Group,
>
>This is to start a two week poll on adopting
>draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03 as an MPLS working group
>document.
>
>Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
>group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical
>motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
>the document should not be adopted as a working group document.
>
>There is one IPR claim against this document.
>
>The authors and contributors has stated on the working group mailing
>list that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
>
>However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
>aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
>this is now.
>
>This poll ends August 14, 2014.
>
>/Loa
>
>for the MPLS wg co-chairs
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 30 06:04:40 2014
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From: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" <msiva@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org" <draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Support.

Thanks,
Siva

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:09 AM
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org"
<mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lu=
cent.com>,
"draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org"
<draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose=
-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
Resent-From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.org>
Resent-To: <rgandhi@cisco.com>, "robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil"
<robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil>, <tsaad@cisco.com>, "y.kamite@ntt.com"
<y.kamite@ntt.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu>, <rcallon@juniper.net>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@a=
lcatel-lucent.com>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:09 AM

>Working Group,
>
>This is to start a two week poll on adopting
>draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03 as an MPLS working group=20
>document.
>
>Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working=20
>group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation=20
>for your support/not support, especially if you think that the document=20
>should not be adopted as a working group document.
>
>There is one IPR claim against this document.
>
>The authors and contributors has stated on the working group mailing=20
>list that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
>
>However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware=20
>of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now.
>
>This poll ends August 14, 2014.
>
>/Loa
>
>for the MPLS wg co-chairs
>--
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Wed Jul 30 07:14:32 2014
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From: "Venator, Robert H III CIV DISA NS (US)" <robert.h.venator.civ@mail.mil>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt
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------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01CFABDE.F1DC4DB0
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I Support this draft (as co-author)

  Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] 
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 4:48 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org
Subject: IPR poll on draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt

Working Group,

The authors of draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt have told
us that the draft is ready to be accepted as a working group document.

Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-
path-reopt?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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From nobody Wed Jul 30 07:23:39 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Relayed Echo Reply mechanism for LSP Ping
        Authors         : Jian Luo
                          Lizhong Jin
                          Thomas Nadeau
                          George Swallow
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-04.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2014-07-30

Abstract:
   In some inter autonomous system (AS) and inter-area deployment
   scenarios for RFC 4379 "Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and
   Traceroute", a replying LSR may not have the available route to the
   initiator, and the Echo Reply message sent to the initiator would be
   discarded resulting in false negatives or complete failure of
   operation of LSP Ping and Traceroute.  This document describes
   extensions to LSP Ping mechanism to enable the replying Label
   Switching Router (LSR) to have the capability to relay the Echo
   Response by a set of routable intermediate nodes to the initiator.
   This document updates RFC 4379.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jul 30 07:24:52 2014
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From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" <skraza@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, "draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org" <draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt an mpls wg doc
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Support.
--
Kamran Raza
skraza@cisco.com


On 2014-07-30, 6:09 AM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

>Working Group,
>
>This is to start a two week poll on adopting
>draft-tsaad-mpls-p2mp-loose-path-reopt-03 as an MPLS working group
>document.
>
>Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
>group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical
>motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
>the document should not be adopted as a working group document.
>
>There is one IPR claim against this document.
>
>The authors and contributors has stated on the working group mailing
>list that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
>
>However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
>aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
>this is now.
>
>This poll ends August 14, 2014.
>
>/Loa
>
>for the MPLS wg co-chairs
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Wed Jul 30 10:30:01 2014
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Definition of Time-to-Live TLV for LSP-Ping Mechanisms
        Authors         : Sami Boutros
                          Siva Sivabalan
                          George Swallow
                          Shaleen Saxena
                          Vishwas Manral
                          Sam Aldrin
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-08.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2014-07-30

Abstract:
   LSP-Ping is a widely deployed Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) mechanism in MPLS networks. However, in the present
   form, this mechanism is inadequate to verify connectivity of a
   segment of a Multi-Segment PseudoWire (MS-PW) and/or bidirectional
   co-routed LSP from any node on the path of the MS-PW and/or
   bidirectional co-routed LSP. This document defines a TLV to address
   this shortcoming.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jul 30 12:08:07 2014
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From: Yimin Shen <yshen@juniper.net>
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" <stbryant@cisco.com>, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, "pwe3-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <pwe3-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [PWE3] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01
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Hi Stewart,

Thanks very much for the detailed review and comments. I'd like to highligh=
t a few things below about this draft, and then respond to your comments in=
line. Hope you could give the draft another closer look.

[1] This draft is completely based on the PWE3 and the MS-PW architecture. =
It is also based on RFC 5331 " MPLS Upstream Label Assignment and Context-S=
pecific Label Space". So ideally readers should be familiar with that RFC.

[2] The draft mentions two important roles of routers, PLR (point of local =
repair) and protector.=20

[3] PLR performs local repair in dataplane, based on pre-installed backup f=
orwarding state pointing to a bypass tunnel. There is no control-plane invo=
lvement in local repair. This is similar to the existing IP/MPLS fast-rerou=
te mechanisms. Therefore, it can achieve restore traffic with a similar per=
formance to those mechanisms. That is the main goal of this draft.

[4] When doing local repair, the PLR only swaps the top label (i.e. tunnel =
label) to a bypass tunnel's label, and keeps the PW label (allocated by pri=
mary/protected PE) intact. The PLR doesn't need to know or understand the P=
W label.

[5] The protector is the router at the other end of the bypass tunnel. It i=
s responsible for forwarding the traffic further, so that the traffic can e=
ventually reach the target CE. The protector must understand the PW label a=
llocated by the primary PE. This is achieved by using the context label for=
warding paradigm specified in RFC 5331. This draft defines some LDP extensi=
ons to allow the primary PE to advertise PW labels to the protector. The pr=
otector locally maintains a label space for these PW labels of the protecte=
d PE, and looks up the PW label in this label space. The bypass tunnel serv=
es as the pointer to this label space.

[6] This draft also introduces the concept of "context ID". A context ID is=
 an IP address identifying a pair of <primary PE, protector X>. It serves a=
s the destination of transport tunnel. PWs carried by the tunnel will be re=
directed to the protector X during local repair. PWs to the same primary PE=
 but protected by a different protector Y cannot be carried by this tunnel.=
 Rather, they must be carried by a tunnel destined for context ID of <prima=
ry PE, protector Y>.

[7] A PLR may be any router in the network, including P or PE router. The d=
raft assumes that it doesn't know or care about PW info.

[8] A protector is a PE router in the "co-located" model. It may be a P rou=
ter in the "centralized" model. For the later case, the draft describes how=
 to use the new LDP extensions for the protector to learn and assoicate pri=
mary PW and backup PW and install forwarding entries in the context label t=
able.

Thanks,

/Yimin


-----Original Message-----
From: pwe3 [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:53 AM
To: pwe3; pwe3-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protecti=
on-01



I do not support the publication of this draft without:

1) An assurance that MPLS WG has reviewed it and is happy
with the extensions that seem to be made to the MPLS architecture

2) A formal description of those extensions or a pointer
to those extensions in another RFC.

3) Significant clarification of how the detail of this
mechanism works.

For this to work you need to have co-ordinated label spaces
in multiple PEs which is something that was investigated
by the SPRING WG and found not to work, particularly when
different manufacturers equipments were involved.

[yshen] This draft does not rely on label space coordination. Rather, it is=
 based on context label forwarding paradigm specified in RFC 5331.=20


As far as I can see you also need to peek below the top
of stack to do a fast reroute operation which is not
a currently defined MPLS operation.

There seem to be a lot of details and clarifications missing
that need to be provided, and I am not entirely convinced
that all of the items declared out of scope are legitimately
out of scope and not needed in order for a multi-vendor
solution to be implemented.

It would be useful to me (and I suspect to other readers)
to see what the dataplane looks like at various points
in the normal and repair path to verify that all parties
have the right information for this to work under normal
and various fault conditions.

I have a number of comments inline that need to be addressed
before this can proceed.


- Stewart


                   PW Endpoint Fast Failure Protection
               draft-ietf-pwe3-endpoint-fast-protection-01

Abstract

    This document specifies a fast mechanism for protecting pseudowires
    against egress endpoint failures, including egress attachment circuit
    failure, egress PE failure, multi-segment PW terminating PE failure,
    and multi-segment PW switching PE failure.  Designed on the basis of
    multi-homed CE, PW redundancy, upstream label assignment and context
    specific label switching, the mechanism enables local repair to be
    performed by the router upstream adjacent to a failure.

    In
    particular, the router can restore PW traffic in the order of tens of
    milliseconds,

SB> Not sure it's wise to specify a performance claim in a standards
SB> track RFC.

[yshen] If this is viewed as inappropriate, we can remove it.

    by transmitting the traffic to a protector through a
    pre-established bypass tunnel.  Therefore, the mechanism can reduce
    traffic loss before global repair reacts to the failure and the
    network converges on the topology changes due to the failure.



=3D=3D=3D


1.  Introduction

    Per RFC 3985, RFC 4447 and RFC 5659, a pseudowire (PW) or PW segment
    can be thought of as a connection between a pair of forwarders hosted
    by two PEs, carrying an emulated layer-2 service over a packet
    switched network (PSN).  In the single-segment PW (SS-PW) case, a
    forwarder binds a PW to an attachment circuit (AC).  In the multi-
    segment PW (MS-PW) case, a forwarder on a terminating PE (T-PE) binds
    a PW segment to an AC, while a forwarder on a switching PE (S-PE)
    binds one PW segment to another PW segment.  In each direction
    between the PEs, PW packets are transported by a PSN tunnel, which is
    called a transport tunnel.

SB> Did we ever your the term transport tunnel before?

[yshen] This is mainly for clarity. We could change it to " which is
    called a transport tunnel *in this document*". Or we can completely rep=
lace "transport tunnel" with just "tunnel".

3.  Reference Models and Failure Cases

    The mechanism in this document intends to
    use these topologies for local repair purposes.

SB> The toplology is not a mechanism. Are you saying that the mechanims
SB> only works in this topology?

[yshen] No, these topologies are only examples for use by subsequent sectio=
ns to describe the mechanisms. The mechanisms should equally work for other=
 topologies as well.

    This SHALL enable
    local repair and global repair to work in tandem to achieve broader
    coverage of protection for services.

SB> I have no idea how a SHALL in capitals applies here.

[yshen] Will fix this.

3.1.  Single-Segment PW



                   |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 -------------- P1 ---------------- PE2 -
              /                                              \
             /                                                \
          CE1                                                  CE2
             \                                                /
              \                                              /
               - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -

                   |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 1


    Each CE is multi-homed to two PEs.  Hence, there are two divergent
    paths between the CEs.

SB> It does not follow that the paths are divergent! Who knows
SB> what happens in the IP layer and the underlying transport
SB> network.


[yshen] We could rephrase this and remove "divergent". All we want to say h=
ere is that there are two distinct sets of AC-PW-AC between the CEs.

    At any given time, each CE sends traffic via only one AC and receives
    traffic via only one AC.  The two ACs MAY or MAY NOT be the same.

SB> May not be the same what? If they are actually the same AC you
SB> have no redundancy.

[yshen] Will rephrase it. All we want to say is that at a given time, the C=
E may send traffic over one AC and receive traffic over another AC.

    The AC used to send traffic is determined by the CE, and MAY rely on
    an end-to-end OAM mechanism between the CEs.  The AC used for the CE
    to receive traffic is determined by the state of the network and the
    protection mechanism in use, as described later in this document.

    From the perspective of traffic flowing towards a given CE, the set
    of PWs, PEs and ACs involved can be viewed to serve primary and
    backup (or active and standby) roles.  When the network is in a
    steady state, the PW that is intended to carry the traffic is
    referred to as a primary PW.  The PE at the egress of the primary PW
    is a primary PE.  The AC connecting the CE and the primary PE is a
    primary AC.  The other PW may be used to carry the traffic upon a
    network failure, and is referred to as a backup PW.  The PE at the
    egress of the backup PW is a backup PE.  The AC connecting the CE and
    the backup PE is a backup AC.

    In this document, the following primary and backup roles are assigned
    for the traffic going from CE1 to CE2:

       Primary PW: PW1



Yimin Shen, et al.      Expires January 25, 2015                [Page 5]


Internet-Draft     PW Endpoint Fast Failure Protection         July 2014


       Primary PE: PE2

       Primary AC: CE2-PE2

       Backup PW: PW2

       Backup PE: PE4

       Backup AC: CE2-PE4

    In this case, an egress AC failure refers to the failure of the AC
    CE2-PE2.  An egress node failure refers to the failure of PE2.

    The backup PE, backup PW and backup AC may be used to carry traffic
    after a PW endpoint failure, when CE1 and CE2 switches traffic to PW2
    in local repair or global repair, as described later in this
    document.

                    |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

                       ------------- P1 ---------------- PE2 -
                      /                                       \
                     /                                         \
           CE1 -- PE1                                          CE2
                     \                                         /
                      \                                       /
                       ------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -

                     |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 2

    Figure 2 shows another possible scenario, where CE1 is single-homed
    to PE1, while CE2 remains multi-homed to PE2 and PE4.  From the
    perspective of egress protection for the traffic from CE1 to CE2,
    this topology is not much different than Figure 1.  However, for the

SB> "not much different than Figure 1" is not helpful, either it is the
same, or you need to explain the difference.

[yshen] Will rephrase. The difference is actually described after "However.=
..".


    traffic in the direction from CE2 to CE1, PE1 must anticipate traffic
    on both PW1 and PW2, and sends it to CE1 over the AC CE1-PE1.

SB> What does it mean to anticipate traffic.

[yshen] To anticipate incoming traffic over either PW1 or PW2. Will rephras=
e.

3.2.  Multi-Segment PW











Yimin Shen, et al.      Expires January 25, 2015                [Page 6]


Internet-Draft     PW Endpoint Fast Failure Protection         July 2014


                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 -------------- SPE1 --------------- TPE2 -
             /                                                 \
            /                                                   \
         CE1                                                     CE2
            \                                                   /
             \                                                 /
              - TPE3 -------------- SPE2 --------------- TPE4 -

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 3

    Figure 3 shows a topology that is similar to Figure 1 but in an MS-PW
    environment.  PW1 and PW2 are both MS-PWs.  PW1 is established
    between TPE1 and TPE2, and switched between segments SEG1 and SEG2 at
    SPE1.  PW2 is established between TPE3 and TPE4, and switched between
    segments SEG3 and SEG4 at SPE2.  CE1 is multi-homed to TPE1 and TPE3.
    CE2 is multi-homed to TPE2 and TPE4.  The transport tunnels of the PW
    segments are not shown in this figure for clarity.

    In this document, the following primary and backup roles are assigned
    for the traffic going from CE1 to CE2:

       Primary PW: PW1

       Primary T-PE: TPE2

       Primary S-PE: SPE1

       Primary AC: CE2-TPE2

       Backup PW: PW2

       Backup T-PE: TPE4

       Backup S-PE: SPE2

       Backup AC: CE2-TPE4

    In this case, an egress AC failure refers to the failure of the AC
    CE2-TPE2.  An egress node failure refers to the failure of TPE2.  An
    S-PE failure refers to the failure of SPE1.





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    The backup T-PE, backup PW and backup AC are used for protecting the
    primary PW against egress AC failure and egress node failure.  The
    backup S-PE and the backup PW are used for protecting the primary PW
    against S-PE failure, as described later in this document.

    For consistency with the SS-PW scenario, primary T-PEs and a primary
    S-PEs may simply be referred to as primary PEs in this document,
    where specifics is not required.  Similarly, backup T-PEs and backup
    S-PEs may be referred to as backup PEs.

4.  Theory of Operation

    The fast protection mechanism in this document provides three types
    of protection for PWs, corresponding to the three types of failures
    described in Section 1.

    a.  Egress AC protection

    b.  Egress (T-)PE node protection

    c.  S-PE node protection

    The mechanism assumes a multi-homed CE with connectivity to a primary
    PE and a backup PE, and the existence of a backup PW in the network.
    In S-PE node protection, it also assumes the existence of a backup
    S-PE on the backup PW.


SB> Do the PWs need to be symmetric - could you have more
S-PEs on one that you have on the other?

[yshen] You could. For a given S-PE, as long as you can find another PE to =
serve as protector, it will work.=20

4.1.  Local Repair and Protector

    The mechanism relies on local repair to be performed by routers
SB> Do you mean routers or PEs? Routers of more likely LSRs
operate at a different layer and have no business knowing about
PWs.

[yshen] routers (LSRs). Yes, they have no idea about PWs. This draft doesn'=
t assume they know or care about PWs.

SB> Has this work been reviewed my MPLS WG? I am concerned
that you are doing a bunch of layer violation without explaining
the how this is achieved or whether it is acceptable within the
MPLS architecture.

[yshen] There is no layer violation. The PLR simply redirect traffic from t=
he original tunnel to a bypass tunnel, by doing a top label swap, without t=
ouching, changing or knowing the PW label. Please take a close look at the =
text.

    upstream adjacent to failures.  Each of these routers is referred to
    as a "point of local repair" (PLR).  A PLR MUST be able to detect a
    failure by using a rapid mechanism, such as physical layer failure
    detection, Bidirectional Failure Detection (BFD) (RFC 5880), etc.  In
    anticipation of the failure, the PLR MUST also pre-establish a bypass
    PSN tunnel to a "protector", and pre-install a bypass route in the
    data plane.  The bypass tunnel MUST have the property that it will
    not be affected by the topology changes in the event of the failure.

SB> This is far too imprecise - you need to separate operations and
topologies in the PW layer from operations and topologies in the
PSN layer

[yshen] Similar to existing IP/MPLS fast-reroute RFCs, this draft doesn't r=
estrict local repair trigger to any specific failure detection mechanisms. =
Any mechanism will work.=20

SB> In each case you need to be clear how you are detecting failure
by specifying the MEPs and MIPs you are testing.

    Upon detecting the failure, the PLR MUST invoke the bypass route in
    the data plane, and reroute PW traffic to the protector through the
    bypass tunnel.  The protector MUST in turn send the traffic to the
    target CE.

SB> No the protector knows nothing about CEs - they are in the client
layer, and you can only protect at the server layer or the server's
server layer.

[yshen] In collocated model, the protector is a PE. In the centralized mode=
l, the protector may be an LSR , and it needs to participate in LDP PW sign=
aling to understand PWs. See the related sections and LDP extensions in thi=
s draft. This centralized model is optional.

    This procedure is referred to as local repair.

    Different routers may serve as PLR and protector in different
    scenarios.

SB> Remember they are not routers - they are xPEs or LSRs.

[yshen] Again, in collocated model, the protector is a PE. In the centraliz=
ed model, the protector may be an LSR , and it needs to participate in LDP =
PW signaling to understand PWs. See the related sections and LDP extensions=
 in this draft. But this centralized model is optional.
[yshen] PLRs may be LSRs, but they don't need to know PWs, because all they=
 do is to swap top label (tunnel label) to a bypass tunnel's label.

SB> In each of the following we need to note that these are
not RFC3985 PEs, even if they take no part in the protection
such as the PEs on the left. Indeed I am wondering if you need
to update RFC3985 and RFC5659

[yshen] There is no need to update RFC3985 and RFC5659.

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    o  In egress AC protection, the PLR is the primary PE that terminates
       the primary PW and hosts the primary AC, and the protector is the
       backup PE (Figure 4).

                   |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 -------------- P1 ---------------- PE2 -
              /                                         PLR  \
             /                                           |    \
          CE1                                      bypass|     CE2
             \                                           |    /
              \                                          |   /
               - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -
                                                     protector

                   |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 4


    o  In egress PE node protection, the PLR is the penultimate hop
       router of the transport tunnel of the primary PW, and the
       protector is the backup PE (Figure 5).

                   |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 -------------- P1 ------- P3 ----- PE2 -
              /                               PLR \          \
             /                                     \          \
          CE1                                 bypass\          CE2
             \                                       \        /
              \                                       \      /
               - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 -
                                                     protector

                   |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 5

SB> Note that it is nothing like as clean as this, if as you later have,
some of P3's traffic needs to go to PE4 and some to PE5.
Also what about the

[yshen] Note that we are talking about a single PW, rather than multiple PW=
s carried by a single tunnel.

    o  In S-PE node protection, the PLR is the penultimate hop router of
       the transport tunnel of the primary PW segment, and the protector
       is the backup S-PE (Figure 6).










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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 ----- P4  ----- SPE1 -------------- TPE2 -
             /             PLR \                               \
            /                   \                               \
         CE1               bypass\                               CE2
            \                     \                             /
             \                     \                           /
              - TPE3 --------------- SPE2 -------------- TPE4 -
                                  protector

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 6

    A PLR can realize its role based on configuration or the signaling of
    transport tunnel.  For example, in the case where the transport
    tunnel is signaled by RSVP, the penultimate hop router could realize

SB> Could realize is not sufficient. The mechanism needs to be=20
unconditional.

[yshen] Will rephrase.

    that it is the PLR for egress (T-)PE or S-PE failure based on the RRO
    in Resv message, which should indicate that the router is one hop
    away from the PE.  The detail of how this could be achieved on a per-
    protocol basis is out of the scope of this document.

SB> So where is it in scope? How do I find out how to do it?

    In all scenarios, when a PLR reroutes traffic through a bypass tunnel
    to a protector during local repair, it MUST keep the label of the
    primary PW intact in the packets.  This obviates the need for the PLR
    to maintain bypass routes on a per-PW basis, and allows a single
    bypass tunnel to carry traffic for multiple PWs.

SB> OK, but didn't I read something about PE protecting subsets of the
egress traffic of other PEs? How would that work without per PW information=
?

[yshen] PWs to a given PE may be protected by multiple protectors. A set of=
 PWs sharing the same protector X can be carried by the same tunnel (destin=
ed to the context ID of <primary PE, X>). PWs protected by a different prot=
ector Y must be carried by different tunnel (destined to the context ID of =
<primary PE, Y>). The PLR of each tunnel doesn't need to know PW info. All =
it does is to swap tunnel label to a bypass tunnel's label, and the bypass =
tunnel will guide the traffic to the intended protector.

    The procedure also requires that the protector SHOULD be able to
    forward the traffic based on a PW label that is assigned by the
    primary PE, and ensure the traffic to eventually reach the target CE.
    From the protector's perspective, this PW label is an upstream
    assigned label (RFC 5331).

SB> .. but the protector may be a P router and know nothing about
PWs.

[yshen] Again, in collocated model, the protector is a PE. In the centraliz=
ed model, the protector may be an LSR , and it needs to participate in LDP =
PW signaling to understand PWs. See the related sections and LDP extensions=
 in this draft. But this centralized model is optional.


    To accomplish this, the protector SHOULD
    learning the PW label from the primary PE prior to the failure, and
    install proper forwarding state for the PW label in a dedicated label
    space for the primary PE.

SB> This is a new PE to P router protocol

[yshen] The LDP extension is defined in a subsequent section.

    During local repair, the protector SHOULD
    perform PW label lookup in this label space.

SB> This has to be signed off by MPLS WG
SB> How can this only be a SHOULD - why is it not a MUST?

[yshen] Will rephrase.

SB> What do you do to ensure that they even have compatible label managers?

[yshen] The LDP extensions defined in this draft covers how to negotiate th=
e capability.


SB> Doesn't this mean a P router looking up two labels to do
the repair?

[yshen] PLR only swaps the top label (i.e. tunnel label) to bypass label ta=
ble, when doing the local repair.

    The above examples have shown the scenarios where the protectors are
    backup (T/S-)PEs.  In other scenarios, a protector may be a dedicated
    router that assumes such role, separate from the backup (T/S-)PE of a
    primary PW.  During local repair, the PLR MUST still reroute traffic
    to the protector through a bypass tunnel.  The protector MUST in turn
    send the traffic to the backup (T/S-)PE, which MUST then send the




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    traffic to the target CE via a backup AC or a backup PW segment.
    More detail will be described in Section 4.3.

4.2.  Context Identifier

    A protector MAY protect multiple primary PEs.

SB> This requires that a P router knows about PWs - how does
it do that?

[yshen] The protector will perform context label forwarding. The bypass tun=
nel points to a context label table, and the protector looks up the PW labe=
l in that table.

    The protector MUST
    maintain a separate label space for each primary PE.  Likewise, the
    PWs terminated on a primary PE MAY be protected by multiple
    protectors, each for a subset of the PWs.  In any case, a given
    primary PW SHOULD be associated with one and only one pair of
    {primary PE, protector}.

    An IPv4/v6 address is assigned to each ordered pair of {primary PE,
    protector} to facilitate protection establishment.  This address is
    referred to as a "context identifier".  It MUST be globally unique,
    or unique in the address space of the network where the primary PE
    and the protector reside.

SB> I think you need to make clear that this is not backwards compatible
with existing PW PEs.

[yshen] PEs will need to support the extensions defined by this draft.

SB> You also need to explain how the IP based context identifier
mechanism works. Is it in the control plane or the data plane?

4.2.1.  Semantics

    The semantics of a context identifier is twofold.

    o  It identifies a primary PE and an associated protector.  In other
       words, it identifies a primary PE on a per protector basis.  A
       given primary PE may be protected by multiple protectors, each for
       a subset of the primary PWs terminated on the primary PE.  A
       distinct context identifier MUST be assigned to the primary PE and
       each protector.

       For each primary PW, its ingress PE MUST set up or resolve a
       transport tunnel with destination as the context identifier of the
       {primary PE, protector}, rather than a private IP address of the
       primary PE.  This not only allows the transport tunnel to reach
       the primary PE, but also conveys the identity of the protector to
       the PLR(s) along the transport tunnel.  Each PLR can in turn use
       this information to set up a bypass tunnel to the protector
       without relying on local configuration.

    o  It indentifies the primary PE's label space on the protector.  The
       protector may protect PWs for multiple primary PEs.  For each
       primary PE, it MUST maintain a separate label space to store the
       PW labels assigned by that primary PE.  It MUST associate a PW
       label with a label space via the context identifier of the
       {primary PE, protector}, as described below.

SB> Is this context identifier an IP address or an MPLS label? Where
is it carried?

[yshen] a context identifier is an IP address. If the tunnel is IP tunnel, =
it is carried in IP header as dest address. If the tunnel is MPLS tunnel, i=
t is indicated by the label.

       In addition to the normal LDP PW signaling, the primary PE MUST
       have a targeted LDP session with the protector, and advertise PW
       labels to the protector via LDP Label Mapping messages (See



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       Section 5 for detail).  The primary PE MUST attach the context
       identifier to each message.  Upon receiving the message, the
       protector MUST install the advertised PW label in the label space
       identified by the context identifier.

SB> I am currently confused about how a data packet carries the PW
label provided by another PE.

       When a PLR sets up or resolve a bypass tunnel to the protector, it
       MUST set the destination to the context identifier, rather than a
       private IP address of the protector.  Once established, the bypass
       tunnel, with either its MPLS label or IP tunnel destination
       address, is used as the identifier of label space.  On the
       protector, all PW packets received on the bypass tunnel MUST be
       forwarded based on a label lookup in that label space.

SB> I do not understand the data plane structure that the above sentence
is describing.

[yshen] This is basically the context label forwarding paradigm (RFC 5331).=
 From the protector's perspective, the bypass tunnel serves as a context, a=
nd indicates the label space of the primary PE where the PW label must be l=
ooked up.


4.2.2.  Advertisement and Path Computation

    Using a context identifier as destination for both transport tunnel
    and bypass tunnel requires both the primary PE and the protector to
    advertise the context identifier via IGP as an IP address reachable
    through both routers in routing domain and/or TE domain.  This
    imposes the following requirements on path computation for these
    tunnels.

    o  For the transport tunnel, the ingress PE MUST choose the primary
       PE as the actual endpoint.

    o  For the bypass tunnel, the PLR MUST choose the protector as the
       actual endpoint.  In egress (T-)PE node protection and S-PE node
       protection, the bypass tunnel MUST avoid the primary (S-)PE.

    The detail of how the primary PE and the protector may advertise a
    context identifier is independent of this mechanism and out of the
    scope of this document.

SB> Given that you give signalling data structures later, I am confused
as to how this can be out of scope of this text. Surely this is needed
to implement an interoperable solution?

[yshen] There is no new extension needed for IGP. Both PEs advertise the co=
ntext ID. That's it. Will rephrase it.

    One approach would be to advertise it as a
    virtual proxy node connected to both routers, with the link between
    the proxy node and the primary PE having a more preferable IGP or TE
    metric than the link between the proxy node and the protector.  The
    ultimate goal is for a path computation algorithm, such as CSPF
    (constrained shortest path first), LFA (RFC 5286) and MRT ([IP-LDP-
    FRR-MRT]), to be able to compute the paths that meet the above
    requirements.

4.3.  Protection Models

    There are two protection models based on the location of a protector.
    A network MAY use either model, or a combination of both.







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4.3.1.  Co-located Protector

    In this model, the protector is a backup PE that is directly
    connected to the target CE via a backup AC, or it is a backup S-PE on
    a backup PW.  That is, the protector is co-located with the backup
    (S-)PE.  Examples of this model have been introduced in Figure 4,
    Figure 5 and Figure 6 in Section 4.1.

    In egress AC protection and egress PE node protection, when a
    protector receives traffic from the PLR, it forwards the traffic to
    the CE via the backup AC.  This is shown in Figure 7, where PE2 is
    the PLR for egress AC failure, P3 is the PLR for PE2 failure, and PE4
    (the backup PE) is the protector.

                  |<-------------- PW1 --------------->|

              - PE1 -------------- P1 ------- P3 ----- PE2 ----
             /                               PLR \     PLR     \
            /                                     \     |       \
         CE1                                 bypass\    |bypass  CE2
            \                                       \   |       /
             \                                       \  |      /
              - PE3 -------------- P2 ---------------- PE4 ----
                                                protector

                  |<-------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 7

    In S-PE node protection, when a protector receives traffic from the
    PLR, it MUST forward the traffic via the next segment of the backup
    PW.  The T-PE of the backup PW MUST in turn forward the traffic to
    the CE via a backup AC.  This is shown in Figure 8, where P4 is the
    PLR for SPE1 failure, and SPE2 (the backup S-PE) is the protector for
    SPE1.
















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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 ----- P4  ----- SPE1 -------------- TPE2 -
             /             PLR \                               \
            /                   \                               \
         CE1               bypass\                               CE2
            \                     \                             /
             \                     \                           /
              - TPE3 --------------- SPE2 -------------- TPE4 -
                              protector

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 8

    In the co-located protector model, the number of context identifiers
    needed by a network is the number of distinct {primary PE, backup PE}
    pairs.  From the perspective of scalability, the model is suitable
    for networks where the number of backup PEs for any given primary PE
    is relatively small.

4.3.2.  Centralized Protector

    In this model, the protector is a dedicated P router or PE router
    that serves the role.  In egress AC protection and egress PE node
    protection, the protector MAY or MAY NOT be a backup PE with a direct
    connection to the target CE.  In S-PE node protection, the protector
    MAY or MAY NOT be a backup S-PE on the backup PW.

    In egress AC protection and egress PE node protection, when the
    protector receives traffic from the PLR, if the protector has a
    direct connection (i.e. backup AC) to the CE, it MUST forward the
    traffic to the CE via the backup AC, which is similar to Figure 7.
    Otherwise, it MUST forward the traffic to a backup PE, which MUST
    then forward the traffic to the CE via a backup AC.  This is shown in
    Figure 9, where the protector receives traffic from P3 (the PLR for
    egress PE failure) or PE2 (the PLR for egress AC failure) and
    forwards the traffic to PE4 (the backup PE).  The protector may be
    protecting other PWs as well, which is not shown in this figure for
    clarity.

SB> If you are going to cover the shared case, I think you need to
make it much clearer how the PWs are identified from the received
data packets.








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                   |<------------- PW1 --------------->|

               - PE1 ------------- P1 ------- P3 ----- PE2 --
              /                              PLR \     PLR   \
             /                                    \     /     \
            /                                bypass\   /bypass \
           /                                        \ /         \
        CE1                                      protector       CE2
           \                                         \          /
            \                                         \        /
             \                                         \      /
              \                                         \    /
               - PE3 ------------- P2 -----------------PE4 --

                   |<------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 9

    In S-PE node protection, when the protector receives traffic from the
    PLR, if the protector is a backup S-PE of the backup PW, it MUST
    forward the traffic via the next segment of the backup PW, and the
    T-PE of the backup PW MUST forward the traffic to the CE via a backup
    AC, which is similar to Figure 8.  Otherwise, the protector MUST
    first forward the traffic to the backup S-PE, which MUST then forward
    the traffic via the next segment of the backup PW.  Finally, the T-PE
    of the backup PW MUST forward the traffic to the CE via a backup AC.
    This is shown in Figure 10, where the protector forwards traffic to
    SPE2 (the backup S-PE), SPE2 forwards the traffic to TPE4 via SEG4,
    and TPE4 finally forwards traffic to CE2.  The protector may be
    protecting other PW segments as well, which is not shown in this
    figure for clarity.




















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                   |<--------------- PW1 --------------->|
                   |<----- SEG1 ----->|<----- SEG2 ----->|

              - TPE1 ----- P4  ----- SPE1 -------------- TPE2 -
             /             PLR \                               \
            /                   \                               \
           /               bypass\                               \
          /                       \                               \
       CE1                     protector                           CE2
          \                        \                              /
           \                        \                            /
            \                        \                          /
             \                        \                        /
              - TPE3 --------------- SPE2 -------------- TPE4 -

                   |<----- SEG3 ----->|<----- SEG4 ----->|
                   |<--------------- PW2 --------------->|

                                  Figure 10

    The centralized protector model provides the convenience for multiple
    primary PEs to share one protector.  Each primary PE MAY only need
    the one protector to protect all of its PWs.  From the perspective of
    scalability, the number of context identifiers needed by a network
    MAY be bound to the number of primary PEs.

4.4.  Transport Tunnel

    The ingress PE of a primary PW associates the PW with the primary
    egress PE through LDP signaling.  In addition, as mentioned in
    Section 4.2.1, the ingress PE MUST associate the transport tunnel of
    the PW with the context identifier of the {primary PE, protector},
    and set up or resolve the transport tunnel by using the context
    identifier as destination.  This not only ensures that PW traffic be
    transported to the primary PE, but also facilitates bypass tunnel
    establishment at PLR(s), as the context identifier implies the
    identity of the protector as well.  This is also the case for a
    multi-segment PW, where the ingress PE and egress PE are T/S-PEs.

    The association between the transport tunnel and the context
    identifier at the ingress PE MAY be achieved by configuration or an
    auto-discovery mechanism.  In the later case, the ingress PE MAY
    learn the context identifier from the primary (egress) PE, if the
    primary PE advertises the context identifier as "third party next
    hop" in IPv4/v6 Interface_ID  (RFC 3471, RFC 3472) in the LDP
    Label Mapping message of the primary PW.





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4.5.  Bypass Tunnel

    A PLR may protect multiple PWs associated with one or multiple pairs
    of {primary PE, protector}. The PLR MUST establish a bypass tunnel to
    each protector for each distinct context identifier associated with
    that protector.  The destination of the bypass tunnel MUST be the
    context identifier (Section 4.2.1).  The PLR may derive the context
    identifier from the destination of the transport tunnel that
    traverses it.

    For examples, in Figure 7 and Figure 9, a bypass tunnel is
    established from PE2 (PLR for egress AC failure) to the protector,
    and another bypass tunnel is established from P3 (PLR for egress node
    failure) to the protector.  In Figure 8 and Figure 10, a bypass
    tunnel is established from P4 (PLR for S-PE failure) to the
    protector.

    During local repair, the PLR reroutes traffic to the protector
    through a bypass tunnel with PW label intact in the packets.  This
    normally involves pushing a label to the label stack, if the bypass
    tunnel is an MPLS tunnel, or pushing an IP header to the packets, if
    the bypass tunnel is an IP tunnel.

SB> Surely it is normally a swap?

[yshen] yes, this is just a label swap of the top label, from tunnel label =
to bypass tunnel label.

SB> I am somewhat confused about what this all looks like when this is
IP. The only PS/IP other than for SATOP are defined by L2TPv3 WG.
There is no IP MS-PW definition that I am aware of. I think you need
to be much clearer about what is going on when you discuss PW over IP=20
egress repair.

    The protector MUST in turn
    forward the traffic based on the PW label.  To achieve such kind of
    forwarding, the protector MUST rely on the bypass tunnel as a context
    to determine the primary PE's label space.  If the bypass tunnel is
    an MPLS tunnel, the protector MUST have assigned a non-reserved label
    to the bypass tunnel during the establishment of the bypass tunnel,
    and hence this label can serve as the context.  If the bypass tunnel
    is an IP tunnel, the protector can simply rely on the context
    identifier carried as the destination address in IP header.

    A bypass tunnel MUST have the property that it is not affected by the
    topology changes caused by the failure.  Therefore, it can be used to
    transmit traffic for local repair.  It SHOULD remain effective, until
    the traffic is moved to another fully functional egress AC, PW and/or
    transport tunnel.

4.6.  Forwarding State on Protector

    A protector MUST learn PW labels from all the primary PEs that it
    protects (Section 5.2), and maintain the PW labels in respective
    label spaces of the primary PEs.  In the control plane, a label space
    is identified by the context identifier of a pair of {primary PE,
    protector}. In the forwarding plane, it is indicated by the bypass
    tunnel(s) destined for the context identifier.

SB> Are you saying that this mechanism mandates no PHP?

[yshen] It mandates PHP for bypass tunnels only, as their labels serve as c=
ontexts on protectors. This is not mandatory for normal tunnels.




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4.6.1.  Examples of Co-located Protector

    In Figure 7, PE4 is a co-located protector that protects PW1 against
    egress AC failure and egress node failure.  It maintains a label
    space for PE2, which is identified by the context identifier of {PE2,
    PE4}. It learns PW1's label from PE2, and installs an forwarding
    entry for the label in that label space.  The nexthop of the
    forwarding entry indicates a label pop with outgoing interface
    pointing to the backup AC CE2-PE4.

SB> I am not sure what you are describing in the above. Is this an
MPLS operation or a PW operation. If the latter it is not a simple
label pop.

[yshen] It is PW label pop.=20

    In Figure 8, SPE2 is a co-located protector that protects PW1 against
    S-PE failure.  It maintains a label space for SPE1, which is
    identified by the context identifier of {SPE1, SPE2}. It learns
    SEG1's label from SPE1, and installs a forwarding entry in the label
    space.  The nexthop of the forwarding entry indicates a label swap to
    SEG4's label.

4.6.2.  Examples of Centralized Protector

    In the centralized protector model, for each primary PW of which the
    protector is not a backup (S-)PE, the protector MUST also learn the
    label of the backup PW from the backup (S-)PE (Section 5.3).  This is
    the backup (S-)PE that the protector will forward traffic to.  The
    protector MUST install a forwarding entry with label swap from the
    primary PW's label to the backup PW's label.

    In Figure 9, the protector is a centralized protector that protects
    PW1 against egress AC failure and egress node failure.  It maintains
    a label space for PE2, which is identified by the context identifier
    of {PE2, protector}. It learns PW1's label from PE2, and PW2's label
    from PE4.  It installs a forwarding entry for PW1's label in the
    label space.  The nexthop of the forwarding entry indicates a label
    swap to PW2's label.

    In Figure 10, the protector is a centralized protector that protects
    the PW segment SEG1 of PW1 against the node failure of SPE1.  It
    maintains a label space for SPE1, which is identified by the context
    identifier of {SPE1, protector}. It learns SEG1's label from SPE1,
    and learns SEG3's label from SPE2.  It installs a forwarding entry
    for SEG1's label in the label space.  The nexthop of the forwarding
    entry indicates a label swap to SEG3's label.

5.  LDP Extensions

    As described in previous sections, a targeted LDP session MUST be
    established between each pair of primary PE and protector.  The
    primary PE sends Label Mapping message over this session to advertise
    primary PW labels to the protector.  In the centralized protector



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    model, a targeted LDP session MUST also be established between a
    backup (S-)PE and a protector.  The backup PE sends Label Mapping
    message over this session to advertise backup PW labels to the
    protector.

    To facilitate the procedures, this document defines a new "Protection
    FEC Element" TLV.  The Label Mapping messages of both the LDP
    sessions above MUST carry this TLV to indicate the identity of a
    primary PW.  Specifically, in the centralized protector model, the
    Protection FEC Element TLV advertised by a backup (S-)PE MUST match
    the one advertised by the primary PE, so that the protector can
    associate the primary PW's label with the backup PW's label, and
    perform a label swap.

    This document also defines the encoding of Capability Parameter TLV
    (RFC 5561) for a new "Egress Protection Capability", to allow a
    protector to announce its capability of processing the above
    Protection FEC Element TLV and performing context specific label
    switching for PW labels.

    The procedures in this section are only applicable, if the protector
    advertises the Egress Protection Capability, the primary PE supports
    the advertisement of the Protection FEC Element TLV, and in the
    centralized protector model, the backup PE also supports the
    advertisement of the Protection FEC Element TLV.

5.1.  Egress Protection Capability TLV

    A protector MUST advertise the Egress Protection Capability TLV in
    its Initialization message and Capability message, over the LDP
    session with a primary PE.  In the centralized protector model, the
    protector MUST also advertise the TLV over the LDP session with a
    backup PE.  The TLV carries one or multiple context identifiers.  To
    the primary PE, the TLV SHOULD carry the context identifier of the
    {primary PE, protector}. In the centralized protector model, the TLV
    SHOULD carry to the backup PE multiple context identifiers, one for
    each {primary PE, protector} where the backup PE serves as a backup
    for the primary PE.  This TLV SHOULD NOT be advertised by the primary
    PE or the backup PE to the protector.

    The processing of the Egress Protection Capability TLV by a receiving
    router SHOULD follow the procedures defined in RFC 5561.  In
    particular, the router SHOULD advertise PW information to the
    protector by using the Protection FEC Element TLV, only after it has
    received the Egress Protection Capability TLV from the protector.  It
    SHOULD validate each context identifier included in the TLV, and
    advertise the information of only those PWs that are associated with
    the context identifier.  It SHOULD withdraw previously advertised



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    Protection FEC TLVs, when the protector has withdrawn a previously
    advertised context identifier or the entire Egress Protection
    Capability TLV via Capability message.

    The encoding of the Egress Protection Capability TLV is defined as
    below.  It conforms to the format of Capability Parameter TLV
    specified in RFC 5561.

       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |U|F|  Egress Protection (TBD)  |              Length           |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |S| Reserved    |                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                               |
      |                                                               |
      ~                Capability Data =3D context identifier(s)        ~
      |                                                               |
      |                                               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 11

    The U-bit MUST be set to 1 so that a receiver MUST silently ignore
    this TLV if unknown to it, and continue processing the rest of the
    message.

    The F-bit MUST be set to 0 since this TLV is sent only in
    Initialization and Capability messages, which are not forwarded.

    The TLV Code Point is TBD.  It needs to be assigned by IANA.

    The S-bit indicates whether the sender is advertising (S=3D1) or
    withdrawing (S=3D0) the capability.

    The "Capability Data" is encoded with the context identifier of the
    {primary PE, protector}.

SB> where is the structure of {primary PE, protector} defined?

[yshen] The Protection FEC Element TLV carries the context ID of {primary P=
E, protector}. The {primary PE, protector} tuple itself is not encoded.

5.2.  PW Label Distribution from Primary PE to Protector

    A primary PE SHOULD advertise a primary PW's label to a protector by
    sending a Label Mapping message.  The message includes a Protection
    FEC Element TLV (see Section 5.4 for encoding), and an Upstream-
    Assigned Label TLV (RFC 6389) encoded with the PW's label.  The
    combination of the Protection FEC Element TLV and the PW label
    represents the primary PE's forwarding state for the PW.  The Label
    Mapping message SHOULD also carry an IPv4/v6 Interface_ID TLV (RFC



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    6389, RFC 3471) encoded with the context identifier of the {primary
    PE, protector}.

    The protector that receives this Label Mapping message SHOULD install
    a forwarding entry for the PW label in the label space identified by
    the context identifier.  The nexthop of the forwarding entry SHOULD
    ensure packets to be sent towards the target CE via a backup AC or a
    backup (S-)PE, depending on the protection scenario.  The protector
    SHOULD silently discard a Label Mapping message if the included
    context identifier is unknown to it.

5.3.  PW Label Distribution from Backup PE to Protector

    In the centralized protector model, a backup PE SHOULD advertise a
    backup PW's label to a protector by sending a Label Mapping message.
    The message includes a Protection FEC Element TLV and a Generic Label
    TLV encoded with the backup PW's label.  This Protection FEC Element
    MUST be identical to the Protection FEC Element TLV that the primary
    PE advertises to the protector (Section 5.2).  The context identifier
    SHOULD NOT be encoded in Interface_ID TLV in this message.

    The protector that receives this Label Mapping message SHOULD
    associate the backup PW with the primary PW, based on the common
    Protection FEC Element TLV.  It SHOULD distinguish between the Label
    Mapping message from the primary PE and the Label Mapping message
    from the backup PE based on the respective presence and absence of
    context identifier in Interface_ID TLV.  It SHOULD install a
    forwarding entry for the primary PW's label in the label space
    identified by the context identifier.  The nexthop of the forwarding
    entry SHOULD indicate a label swap to the backup PW's label, followed
    by a label push or IP header push for a transport tunnel to the
    backup PE.

5.4.  Protection FEC Element TLV

    The Protection FEC Element TLV has type 0x83.  Its format is defined
    as below:














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       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   Type(0x83)  |    Reserved   | Encoding Type |    Length     |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                                                               |
      |                                                               |
      ~                         PW Information                        ~
      |                                                               |
      |                               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 12

    - Encoding Type

       Type of format that PW Information field is encoded.

    - Length

       Length of PW Information field in octets.

    - PW Information

       Field of variable length that specifies a PW

    For Encoding Type, 1 is defined for the PWid FEC Element format, and
    2 is defined for the Generalized PWid FEC Element format (RFC 4447).


5.4.1.  Encoding Format for PWid




















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       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   Type(0x83)  |    Reserved   |  Enc Type(1)  |   Length(16)  |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                      Ingress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       Egress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                            Group ID                           |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                             PW ID                             |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |C|           PW Type           |           Reserved            |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 13

    - Ingress PE Address

       IP address of the ingress PE of PW.

    - Egress PE Address

       IP address of the egress PE of PW.

SB> How does this work for IPv6?

    - Group ID

       An arbitrary 32-bit value that represents a group of PWs and that
       is used to create groups in the PW space.

    - PW ID

       A non-zero 32-bit connection ID that, together with the PW Type
       field, identifies a particular PW.

    - Control word bit (C)

       A bit that flags the presence of a control word on this PW.  If C
       =3D 1, control word is present; If C =3D 0, control word is not
       present.

    - PW Type

       A 15-bit quantity that represents the type of PW.

SB> Needs a ref




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5.4.2.  Encoding Format for Generalized PWid

       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   Type(0x83)  |    Reserved   |  Enc Type(2)  |   Length      |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                      Ingress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |                       Egress PE Address                       |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |C|           PW Type           |           Reserved            |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   AGI Type    |    Length     |      Value                    |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                    AGI  Value (contd.)                        ~
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   AII Type    |    Length     |      Value                    |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                   SAII  Value (contd.)                        ~
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |   AII Type    |    Length     |      Value                    |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      ~                   TAII Value (contd.)                         ~
      |                                                               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

                                  Figure 14

    - Ingress PE Address

       IP address of the ingress PE of PW.

    - Egress PE Address

       IP address of the egress PE of PW.

SB> IPv6?

    - Control word bit (C)

       A bit that flags the presence of a control word on this PW.  If C
       =3D 1, control word is present; If C =3D 0, control word is not
       present.

    - PW Type

       A 15-bit quantity that represents the type of PW.



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    - AGI Type, Length, Value, AGI Value

       Attachment Group Identifier of PW.

    - SAII Type, Length, Value, SAII Value

       Source Attachment Individual Identifier of PW.

    - TAII Type, Length, Value, TAII Value

       Target Attachment Individual Identifier of PW.

6.  Revertive Behavior

    Subsequent to local repair, there are three strategies for the
    network to restore traffic to a fully functional PW.

    o  Global revertive mode

       If the ingress CE is multi-homed (Figure 1), it MAY switch the
       traffic to a backup AC which is bound to a backup PW.
       Alternatively, if the ingress PE hosts a backup PW (Figure 2), the
       ingress PE MAY switch the traffic to the backup PW.  These
       procedures are referred to as global repair.  Possible triggers of
       a global repair include PW status, OAM, and BFD.

    o  Control plane revertive mode

       In egress PE node protection and S-PE node protection, it is
       possible that the failure is limited to the link between the PLR
       and the primary (S-)PE, whereas the primary (S-)PE is still up.
       In this case, the PLR or an upstream router along the transport
       tunnel MAY reroute the tunnel around the failed link via an
       alternative path.  Thus, the transport tunnel can continue to be
       used to carry the PW traffic to the primary (S-)PE.  This
       procedure is driven by control plane convergence, and is referred
       to as control plane repair.

    o  Local revertive mode

       The PLR MAY move traffic back to the primary PW, after the failure
       is resolved.  In egress AC protection, upon detecting that the
       primary AC is restored, the PLR MAY start forwarding traffic over
       the AC again.  Likewise, in egress PE node protection and S-PE
       node protection, upon detecting that the primary PE is restored,
       the PLR MAY re-establish the primary transport tunnel through the
       primary PE, and move the traffic from the bypass tunnel back to




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       the transport tunnel.  These procedures are referred to as local
       reversion.

    The fast protection mechanism in this document SHOULD be used in
    tandem with the global revertive mode.  Particularly in the case of
    egress (S-)PE failure, if the ingress PE or the protector loses
    communication with the (S-)PE for an extensive period of time, the
    LDP session between them may go down.  Consequently, the ingress PE
    may bring down the primary PW, or the protector may remove the
    forwarding entry of the primary PW label.  In either case, the
    service will be disrupted.  In other words, although the fast
    protection can temporarily repair traffic, control plane state may
    eventually be timed out if the failure persists.  Therefore, it is
    recommended that the global revertive mode SHOULD be set up in
    advance, so that traffic can be moved to a fully functional backup PW
    shortly after the local repair.

    The control plane revertive mode may always happen as part of the
    convergence of control plane protocols.  However, it is only
    applicable to the specific scenarios described above.

    The local revertive mode is optional.  In the circumstances where the
    failure is caused by resource flapping, local reversion MAY be
    dampened to limit potential disruptions.  Local revertive mode MAY be
    disabled completely by configuration.

7.  IANA Considerations

    This document defines the encoding of the Capability Parameter TLV
    for the new "Egress Protection Capability" in Section 5.  This would
    require IANA to assign a TLV Code Point to it.

    This document defines a new LDP Protection FEC Element TLV in
    Section 5.  IANA has assigned the type value 0x83 to it.

SB> I am very confused about what explicit actions you are asking IANA=20
to take. Are you saying that there are no IANA actions?

[yshen] Need IANA to assign a TLV code to "Egress Protection Capability", a=
s said above.

8.  Security Considerations

    The security considerations discussed in RFC 5036, RFC 5331, RFC
    3209, and RFC 4090 apply to this document.

SB> Are there any PW security considerations that apply?

SB> This is a new PW operational mode, so I am surprised that there are
no new security considerations. An early security review might be useful.


[yshen] Not sure about any specific security issues.


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Resending..

On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:

>>=20
>> Minor Issues:=20
>>=20
>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional co-rout=
ed
>> LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abstract sectio=
n.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Sure will do.
>=20
>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request", "ec=
ho
>> request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft, it's bette=
r to
>> unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to align with the usage in
>> RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the
>> similar issue.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>=20
>> 3.Section 3.1
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>     |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>=20
>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value", "Reserved" =
and
>> "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field to "TTL" field hence=
 to
>> reduce the confusion.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Sure.
>=20
>> 4. Section 3.2
>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
>>  request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
>>  understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
>>  TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
>>  ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them). In
>>  the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver, the
>>  determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the echo
>>  reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>=20
>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it to
>> apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in RFC4379,
>=20
> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 4379=
 apply.
>> if
>=20
>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255, means th=
e
>> echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or LSP. I am not sur=
e
>> whether this is the right procedure, it seems a security issue. IMHO, it
>> does not make any sense to expect the receiver to send echo reply in thi=
s
>> situation, and even sent, the initiator will not receive the reply. The
>> safer way is to drop the whole echo request and record an error log.
>=20
>=20
> Sami:=20
>=20
> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does the =
reply
> may be received by the ingress node which might be the wrong node, since=
=20
> the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the reply, keep in mind that=
 this is=20
> a receiver with an old implementation and the TLV is optional.
>=20
> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>=20
> Sami:
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> 5. Section 3.2
>>=20
>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does not
>> match the TTL
>>  determined by other means, such as Switching Point TLV in MS-PW, then
>>  TTL TLV must be used."
>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching process,
>> since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching, seems this
>> sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includes=
?
>=20
>> 6. Section 4.
>>=20
>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS label a=
re
>> set to 2,"
>>=20
>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to add m=
ore
>> text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set the TTL value o=
f
>> the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it ex=
plicit that this is a PW label.
>=20
>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>  "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set to 1,
>>  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the label
>>  set on the packet."
>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be carried,
>> especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the example says the F=
EC
>> of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean the FEC of last PW Segmen=
t of
>> the segment under test should be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL
>> changed. For example, when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D
>> segment), when TTL is 1, which FEC should be carried?
>=20
> Sami:=20
> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describing =
how our extensions will apply.
> Sami:
>=20
>>=20
>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>=20
> Sami:=20
> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need f=
or an error code.
> Sami:
>=20
>>=20
>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode, if so=
,
>> it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how the MS-PW
>> trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may span differen=
t
>> hops).=20
>=20
> Sami:=20
> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trace =
work.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Sami
>>=20
>> Nits:=20
>>=20
>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in the=
ir
>> first use.
>>=20
>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check and
>> fix.=20
>>   (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
>> references
>>    to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>=20
>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
>>=20
>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
>>=20
>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
>> reference
>>    was found in the text
>>=20
>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
>> reference
>>    was found in the text
>>=20
>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
>> reference
>>    was found in the text
>>=20
>> 3. Section 3.2,
>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>> s/shall/SHALL
>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence
>> s/must/MUST
>>=20
>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP concept, i=
t's
>> better to add related references to this document.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Mach
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:15:16 -0400
Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especiall=
y if reply mode is in-band).
I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through).

Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?

Thanks,
himanshu

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros (sboutr=
os)
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
To: Mach Chen
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@t=
ools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt

Resending..

On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:

>>=20
>> Minor Issues:=20
>>=20
>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional=20
>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abstr=
act section.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Sure will do.
>=20
>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",=20
>> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,=20
>> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to align=20
>> with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional=20
>> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>=20
>> 3.Section 3.1
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>     |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>=20
>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",=20
>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field to=20
>> "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Sure.
>=20
>> 4. Section 3.2
>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of =20
>> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not =20
>> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of =20
>> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be =20
>> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them). In =20
>> the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver, the =20
>> determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the echo =20
>> reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>=20
>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it=20
>> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the=20
>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in RFC4379,
>=20
> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 4379=
 apply.
>> if
>=20
>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255, means=20
>> the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or LSP. I am=20
>> not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a security=20
>> issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the receiver to=20
>> send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the initiator will=20
>> not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whole echo request a=
nd record an error log.
>=20
>=20
> Sami:=20
>=20
> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does=20
> the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the wrong=20
> node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the reply,=20
> keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation and the T=
LV is optional.
>=20
> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>=20
> Sami:
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> 5. Section 3.2
>>=20
>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does=20
>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching Point=20
>> TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching=20
>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,=20
>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includes=
?
>=20
>> 6. Section 4.
>>=20
>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS=20
>> label are set to 2,"
>>=20
>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to=20
>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set the=20
>> TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>=20
>=20
> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it ex=
plicit that this is a PW label.
>=20
>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>  "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set to=20
>> 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the=20
>> label  set on the packet."
>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be=20
>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the=20
>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean=20
>> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be=20
>> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when=20
>> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, which=
 FEC should be carried?
>=20
> Sami:=20
> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describing =
how our extensions will apply.
> Sami:
>=20
>>=20
>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>=20
> Sami:=20
> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need f=
or an error code.
> Sami:
>=20
>>=20
>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode, if=20
>> so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how the=20
>> MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may span=20
>> different hops).
>=20
> Sami:=20
> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trace =
work.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Sami
>>=20
>> Nits:=20
>>=20
>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in=20
>> their first use.
>>=20
>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check=20
>> and fix.
>>   (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative=20
>> references
>>    to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>=20
>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
>>=20
>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
>>=20
>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit=20
>> reference
>>    was found in the text
>>=20
>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit=20
>> reference
>>    was found in the text
>>=20
>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit=20
>> reference
>>    was found in the text
>>=20
>> 3. Section 3.2,
>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>> s/shall/SHALL
>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>=20
>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP=20
>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Mach
>>=20
>>=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org" <draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
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> 2. Service Chaining
>=20
> Why not let SFC folks to do their work, which SFC will then work on=20
> the MPLS data plane without any changes to the MPLS data plane nor=20
> architecture, certainly doesn't require any "global label" as this use=20
> case is describing. Unless the SFC WG require the "global label"=20
> (which it doesn't) or the MPLS WG is re-chartered to pick up creation=20
> of a tangent SFC solution specifically for MPLS, I don't think this use c=
ase is valid.
> [Robin] SFC WG truly works on some new header for service functions.=20
> We need to work out the when MPLS dataplane applied, what the possible=20
> problem and the solution. I think MPLS has been widely deployed in the=20
> existing network and SFC is the possible useful use case in MPLS=20
> network which should be taken into account in the MPLS world. MPLS=20
> global label is one of the possible solutions. This does not preclude oth=
er solutions.

[NOBO] SFC is data plane agnostic. When SFC runs on MPLS data plane, there =
is no need to use global labels to describe service functions.

Hi Nobo,

It's fine that SFC is data plane agnostic. In the MPLS-SPRING-based SFC app=
roach (http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-spring-5.pdf) wh=
ere the SFC-specific header is implemented in the form of an MPLS label sta=
ck, the SFC-encapsulated packet (i.e., the MPLS packet) could still be tran=
sported between service nodes over any transport such as MPLS, IP (e.g., MP=
LS-over-UDP or MPLS-over-GRE) or even Ethernet. To some extent, the MPLS-SP=
RING-based SFC approach is data plane agnostic as well.=20

As had been mentioned in the above PDF, if it's the SFP information that is=
 encoded in the MPLS label stack, there is no need for global labels. Howev=
er, provided that some operators did want to encode the SFC information, ra=
ther than the SFP information in the MPLS label stack, the only feasible wa=
y to realize such goal is to use global labels. Here the global labels just=
 need to be unique within the SFC-enabled domain, in other words, they are =
domain-wide unique labels. Just like the global label usage proposed in the=
 segment routing mechanism, it only requires that a common label block, ref=
erred to as SF Label Block (SFLB) is reserved by all service nodes and Clas=
sifiers for SF SIDs. The domain-wide unique label for a given SF would be a=
utomatically determined by adding the SF ID to the first label value of the=
 above SFLB.=20

Best regards,
Xiaohu


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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Sami,

Sorry for missing your last reply.

Thanks for considering my comments, and it resolved my comments.

Best regards,
Mach
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sami Boutros (sboutros) [mailto:sboutros@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:44 AM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; Loa Andersson
> Subject: Re: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>=20
> Resending..
>=20
> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>=20
> >>
> >> Minor Issues:
> >>
> >> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
> >> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abs=
tract section.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure will do.
> >
> >> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",
> >> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,
> >> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to align
> >> with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional
> >> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> >
> >> 3.Section 3.1
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>     |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> >> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field to
> >> "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure.
> >
> >> 4. Section 3.2
> >> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
> >> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
> >> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
> >> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
> >> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them). In
> >> the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver, the
> >> determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the echo
> >> reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> >>
> >> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it
> >> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
> >> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in RFC4379,
> >
> > Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 43=
79 apply.
> >> if
> >
> >> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255, means
> >> the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or LSP. I am
> >> not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a security
> >> issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the receiver to
> >> send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the initiator will
> >> not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whole echo request=
 and
> record an error log.
> >
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> > We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does
> > the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the wrong
> > node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the reply,
> > keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation and the=
 TLV is
> optional.
> >
> > Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> 5. Section 3.2
> >>
> >> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
> >> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching Point
> >> TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> >> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> >> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
> >> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includ=
es?
> >
> >> 6. Section 4.
> >>
> >> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
> >> label are set to 2,"
> >>
> >> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
> >> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set the
> >> TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> >>
> >
> > Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it =
explicit
> that this is a PW label.
> >
> >> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> >>  "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set to
> >> 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the
> >> label  set on the packet."
> >> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> >> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> >> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean
> >> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be
> >> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when
> >> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, whi=
ch FEC
> should be carried?
> >
> > Sami:
> > We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describin=
g how
> our extensions will apply.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> >> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> >
> > Sami:
> > The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need=
 for an
> error code.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode, if
> >> so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how the
> >> MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may span
> >> different hops).
> >
> > Sami:
> > Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trac=
e
> work.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sami
> >>
> >> Nits:
> >>
> >> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in
> >> their first use.
> >>
> >> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check
> >> and fix.
> >>   (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
> >> references
> >>    to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> 3. Section 3.2,
> >> 3.1 first para first sentence
> >> s/shall/SHALL
> >> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> >>
> >> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> >> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Mach
> >>
> >>
> >


From nobody Wed Jul 30 21:00:05 2014
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 03:59:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Himanshu,

I just rechecked my mailbox found that I sent out my comments on March 31, =
2014, and received Sami's reply on May 15 and the reply was wrongly filtere=
d into the Junk email folder, sorry for that :-)

Best regards,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 7:15 AM
> To: Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.o=
rg
> Subject: RE: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>=20
> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especia=
lly if
> reply mode is in-band).
> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through=
).
>=20
> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>=20
> Thanks,
> himanshu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
> (sboutros)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.o=
rg
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.tx=
t
>=20
> Resending..
>=20
> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>=20
> >>
> >> Minor Issues:
> >>
> >> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
> >> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abs=
tract section.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure will do.
> >
> >> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",
> >> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,
> >> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to align
> >> with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional
> >> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> >
> >> 3.Section 3.1
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>     |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> >> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field to
> >> "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure.
> >
> >> 4. Section 3.2
> >> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
> >> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
> >> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
> >> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
> >> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them). In
> >> the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver, the
> >> determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the echo
> >> reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> >>
> >> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it
> >> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
> >> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in RFC4379,
> >
> > Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 43=
79 apply.
> >> if
> >
> >> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255, means
> >> the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or LSP. I am
> >> not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a security
> >> issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the receiver to
> >> send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the initiator will
> >> not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whole echo request=
 and
> record an error log.
> >
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> > We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does
> > the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the wrong
> > node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the reply,
> > keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation and the=
 TLV is
> optional.
> >
> > Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> 5. Section 3.2
> >>
> >> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
> >> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching Point
> >> TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> >> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> >> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
> >> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includ=
es?
> >
> >> 6. Section 4.
> >>
> >> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
> >> label are set to 2,"
> >>
> >> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
> >> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set the
> >> TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> >>
> >
> > Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it =
explicit
> that this is a PW label.
> >
> >> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> >>  "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set to
> >> 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the
> >> label  set on the packet."
> >> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> >> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> >> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean
> >> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be
> >> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when
> >> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, whi=
ch FEC
> should be carried?
> >
> > Sami:
> > We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describin=
g how
> our extensions will apply.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> >> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> >
> > Sami:
> > The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need=
 for an
> error code.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode, if
> >> so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how the
> >> MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may span
> >> different hops).
> >
> > Sami:
> > Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trac=
e
> work.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sami
> >>
> >> Nits:
> >>
> >> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in
> >> their first use.
> >>
> >> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check
> >> and fix.
> >>   (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
> >> references
> >>    to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> 3. Section 3.2,
> >> 3.1 first para first sentence
> >> s/shall/SHALL
> >> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> >>
> >> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> >> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Mach
> >>
> >>
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:07:48 +0200
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Himanshu,

A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to
wg-chairs and ADs.

The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that
ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.

IANA has reviewed it and are OK.

Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especially if reply mode is in-band).
> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through).
>
> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>
> Thanks,
> himanshu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros (sboutros)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>
> Resending..
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Minor Issues:
>>>
>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
>>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abstract section.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>
>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",
>>> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,
>>> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to align
>>> with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional
>>> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>
>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>      |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>
>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field to
>>> "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Sure.
>>
>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
>>> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
>>> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
>>> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
>>> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them). In
>>> the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver, the
>>> determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the echo
>>> reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>
>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it
>>> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
>>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in RFC4379,
>>
>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 4379 apply.
>>> if
>>
>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255, means
>>> the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or LSP. I am
>>> not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a security
>>> issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the receiver to
>>> send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the initiator will
>>> not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whole echo request and record an error log.
>>
>>
>> Sami:
>>
>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does
>> the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the wrong
>> node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the reply,
>> keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation and the TLV is optional.
>>
>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>
>> Sami:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>
>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
>>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching Point
>>> TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
>>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includes?
>>
>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>
>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
>>> label are set to 2,"
>>>
>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
>>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set the
>>> TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>
>>
>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it explicit that this is a PW label.
>>
>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>   "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set to
>>> 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the
>>> label  set on the packet."
>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean
>>> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be
>>> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when
>>> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, which FEC should be carried?
>>
>> Sami:
>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describing how our extensions will apply.
>> Sami:
>>
>>>
>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>
>> Sami:
>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need for an error code.
>> Sami:
>>
>>>
>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode, if
>>> so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how the
>>> MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may span
>>> different hops).
>>
>> Sami:
>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trace work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sami
>>>
>>> Nits:
>>>
>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in
>>> their first use.
>>>
>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check
>>> and fix.
>>>    (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
>>> references
>>>     to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>
>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
>>>
>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
>>>
>>> == Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
>>> reference
>>>     was found in the text
>>>
>>> == Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
>>> reference
>>>     was found in the text
>>>
>>> == Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
>>> reference
>>>     was found in the text
>>>
>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>
>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Mach
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>,  Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:14:38 -0400
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Thanks Loa.
Early allocation request could have been made much earlier, but that is wat=
er under the bridge now.
I would still favor requesting for provisional IANA code allocation now.
This would allow interoperability of the ongoing implementations.

/himanshu

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; =
rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.t=
xt

Himanshu,

A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to wg-chairs =
and ADs.

The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that ADrian=
 is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.

IANA has reviewed it and are OK.

Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especia=
lly if reply mode is in-band).
> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through=
).
>
> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>
> Thanks,
> himanshu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros=20
> (sboutros)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;=20
> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>
> Resending..
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Minor Issues:
>>>
>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional=20
>>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abst=
ract section.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>
>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",=20
>>> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,=20
>>> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to=20
>>> align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional=20
>>> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>
>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>      |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>>     =20
>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>
>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",=20
>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field=20
>>> to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Sure.
>>
>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of=20
>>> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not=20
>>> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of=20
>>> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be=20
>>> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them).=20
>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver,=20
>>> the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the=20
>>> echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>
>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it=20
>>> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the=20
>>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in=20
>>> RFC4379,
>>
>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 437=
9 apply.
>>> if
>>
>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,=20
>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or=20
>>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a=20
>>> security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the=20
>>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the=20
>>> initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whol=
e echo request and record an error log.
>>
>>
>> Sami:
>>
>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does=20
>> the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the=20
>> wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the=20
>> reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation a=
nd the TLV is optional.
>>
>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>
>> Sami:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>
>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does=20
>>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching=20
>>> Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching=20
>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,=20
>>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>
>>
>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it include=
s?
>>
>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>
>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS=20
>>> label are set to 2,"
>>>
>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to=20
>>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set=20
>>> the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>
>>
>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it e=
xplicit that this is a PW label.
>>
>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>   "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set=20
>>> to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the=20
>>> label  set on the packet."
>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be=20
>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the=20
>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean=20
>>> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be=20
>>> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when=20
>>> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, whic=
h FEC should be carried?
>>
>> Sami:
>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describing=
 how our extensions will apply.
>> Sami:
>>
>>>
>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>
>> Sami:
>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need =
for an error code.
>> Sami:
>>
>>>
>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode,=20
>>> if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how=20
>>> the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may=20
>>> span different hops).
>>
>> Sami:
>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trace=
 work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sami
>>>
>>> Nits:
>>>
>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in=20
>>> their first use.
>>>
>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check=20
>>> and fix.
>>>    (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative=20
>>> references
>>>     to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>
>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
>>>
>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
>>>
>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit=20
>>> reference
>>>     was found in the text
>>>
>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit=20
>>> reference
>>>     was found in the text
>>>
>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit=20
>>> reference
>>>     was found in the text
>>>
>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>
>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP=20
>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Mach
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--=20


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:15:40 +0000
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References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <53DA3194.4040306@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Loa, Authors,

The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped implementation o=
f the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=3D0x8001 is being used.

I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this implementati=
on without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV code point.

If usage of Type=3D0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any other i=
mplementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to assign this value (=
0x8001) when the document progresses?

My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd and the =
ADs.

But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.

Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org=
;
> mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl=
-tlv-
> 07.txt
>=20
> Himanshu,
>=20
> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to wg-chair=
s
> and ADs.
>=20
> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that ADri=
an is
> comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
>=20
> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
>=20
> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> > This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
> (especially if reply mode is in-band).
> > I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go throu=
gh).
> >
> > Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > himanshu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
> > (sboutros)
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> > To: Mach Chen
> > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> > rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
> > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
> >
> > Resending..
> >
> > On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> Minor Issues:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
> >>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the ab=
stract
> section.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sami: Sure will do.
> >>
> >>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",
> >>> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,
> >>> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to
> >>> align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional
> >>> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> >>
> >>> 3.Section 3.1
> >>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+
> >>>      |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
> >>>
> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>>
> >>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> >>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field
> >>> to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sami: Sure.
> >>
> >>> 4. Section 3.2
> >>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
> >>> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
> >>> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
> >>> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
> >>> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them).
> >>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver,
> >>> the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the
> >>> echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> >>>
> >>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it
> >>> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
> >>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in
> >>> RFC4379,
> >>
> >> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 4=
379
> apply.
> >>> if
> >>
> >>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
> >>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or
> >>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a
> >>> security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the
> >>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the
> >>> initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the wh=
ole
> echo request and record an error log.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sami:
> >>
> >> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does
> >> the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the
> >> wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the
> >> reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation=
 and
> the TLV is optional.
> >>
> >> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> >>
> >> Sami:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 5. Section 3.2
> >>>
> >>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
> >>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching
> >>> Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> >>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> >>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
> >>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
> includes?
> >>
> >>> 6. Section 4.
> >>>
> >>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
> >>> label are set to 2,"
> >>>
> >>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
> >>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set
> >>> the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it
> explicit that this is a PW label.
> >>
> >>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> >>>   "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set
> >>> to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the
> >>> label  set on the packet."
> >>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> >>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> >>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean
> >>> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be
> >>> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when
> >>> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, wh=
ich
> FEC should be carried?
> >>
> >> Sami:
> >> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describi=
ng
> how our extensions will apply.
> >> Sami:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> >>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> >>
> >> Sami:
> >> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no nee=
d
> for an error code.
> >> Sami:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode,
> >>> if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how
> >>> the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may
> >>> span different hops).
> >>
> >> Sami:
> >> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW
> trace work.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Sami
> >>>
> >>> Nits:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in
> >>> their first use.
> >>>
> >>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check
> >>> and fix.
> >>>    (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
> >>> references
> >>>     to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> >>>
> >>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
> >>>
> >>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
> >>>
> >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
> >>> reference
> >>>     was found in the text
> >>>
> >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
> >>> reference
> >>>     was found in the text
> >>>
> >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
> >>> reference
> >>>     was found in the text
> >>>
> >>> 3. Section 3.2,
> >>> 3.1 first para first sentence
> >>> s/shall/SHALL
> >>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> >>>
> >>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> >>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Mach
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
Thread-Index: AQHPcL43MdQKFwuY10i9fAzq1cK1Rpu5z3cA///lHDCAANoHAIAAEvYAgAAOQSA=
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:11:07 +0000
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References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <53DA3194.4040306@pi.nu> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD39439B2505C@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com>
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Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Sami Boutros \(sboutros\)" <sboutros@cisco.com>, "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Nobo, and all,
0x8001 =3D 32769 falls in the "Unassigned" range of TLVs for LSP Ping. I th=
ink that it has been considered as safe enough to use by the implementers.
Somehow the relevant IANA registry does not provide any values for experime=
ntal use.

My 2c,
       Sasha=20
Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
Mobile: 054-9266302

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:16 PM
> To: Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org=
; rtg-
> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl=
-tlv-
> 07.txt
>=20
> Hi Loa, Authors,
>=20
> The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped implementation
> of the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=3D0x8001 is being used.
>=20
> I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this
> implementation without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV code
> point.
>=20
> If usage of Type=3D0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any other
> implementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to assign this valu=
e
> (0x8001) when the document progresses?
>=20
> My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd and th=
e
> ADs.
>=20
> But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
> > To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
> > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> > mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
> > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
> >
> > Himanshu,
> >
> > A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to
> > wg-chairs and ADs.
> >
> > The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that
> > ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
> >
> > IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
> >
> > Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> > On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> > > This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
> > (especially if reply mode is in-band).
> > > I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go thr=
ough).
> > >
> > > Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > himanshu
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
> > > (sboutros)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> > > To: Mach Chen
> > > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> > > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> > > rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
> > > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
> > >
> > > Resending..
> > >
> > > On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>> Minor Issues:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
> > >>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the
> > >>> abstract
> > section.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Sami: Sure will do.
> > >>
> > >>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo
> > >>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in
> > >>> the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo
> > >>> request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply",
> > >>> "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> > >>
> > >>> 3.Section 3.1
> > >>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-
> +
> > >>>      |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
> > >>>
> > >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>>
> > >>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> > >>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field
> > >>> to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Sami: Sure.
> > >>
> > >>> 4. Section 3.2
> > >>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator
> > >>> of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does
> > >>> not understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type
> > >>> value of TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which
> > >>> SHOULD be ignored if an implementation does not support or
> understand them).
> > >>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver,
> > >>> the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the
> > >>> echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> > >>>
> > >>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is
> > >>> it to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to
> > >>> the implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in
> > >>> RFC4379,
> > >>
> > >> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure
> > >> in 4379
> > apply.
> > >>> if
> > >>
> > >>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
> > >>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or
> > >>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a
> > >>> security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the
> > >>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the
> > >>> initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the
> > >>> whole
> > echo request and record an error log.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sami:
> > >>
> > >> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he
> > >> does the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be
> > >> the wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on
> > >> the reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old
> > >> implementation and
> > the TLV is optional.
> > >>
> > >> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> > >>
> > >> Sami:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> 5. Section 3.2
> > >>>
> > >>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
> > >>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching
> > >>> Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> > >>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> > >>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
> > >>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
> > includes?
> > >>
> > >>> 6. Section 4.
> > >>>
> > >>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
> > >>> label are set to 2,"
> > >>>
> > >>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
> > >>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set
> > >>> the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make
> > >> it
> > explicit that this is a PW label.
> > >>
> > >>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> > >>>   "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set
> > >>> to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for
> > >>> the label  set on the packet."
> > >>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> > >>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> > >>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it
> > >>> mean the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should
> > >>> be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example,
> > >>> when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL
> > >>> is 1, which
> > FEC should be carried?
> > >>
> > >> Sami:
> > >> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are
> > >> describing
> > how our extensions will apply.
> > >> Sami:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> > >>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> > >>
> > >> Sami:
> > >> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no
> > >> need
> > for an error code.
> > >> Sami:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode,
> > >>> if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define
> > >>> how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both
> > >>> directions may span different hops).
> > >>
> > >> Sami:
> > >> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW
> > trace work.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Sami
> > >>>
> > >>> Nits:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded
> > >>> in their first use.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please
> > >>> check and fix.
> > >>>    (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
> > >>> references
> > >>>     to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> > >>>
> > >>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line
> > >>> 121
> > >>>
> > >>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line
> > >>> 258
> > >>>
> > >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explici=
t
> > >>> reference
> > >>>     was found in the text
> > >>>
> > >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explici=
t
> > >>> reference
> > >>>     was found in the text
> > >>>
> > >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explici=
t
> > >>> reference
> > >>>     was found in the text
> > >>>
> > >>> 3. Section 3.2,
> > >>> 3.1 first para first sentence
> > >>> s/shall/SHALL
> > >>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> > >>>
> > >>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> > >>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Best regards,
> > >>> Mach
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> > Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
Thread-Index: AQHPrMlKRtb0V4c6eEO/q10Vgbo2Opu6OslQ
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:20:30 +0000
Message-ID: <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD39439B27199@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com>
References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <53DA3194.4040306@pi.nu> <CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD39439B2505C@xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com> <7adbcb851e224adbbd93416e5932b618@AM3PR03MB612.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Sasha,

I wish that was the case :)

https://www.iana.org/assignments/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters/mpls-lsp-ping-par=
ameters.xhtml#tlvs

32768-49161
Standards Action
This range is for optional TLVs that can be silently dropped if not recogni=
zed.

Thanks,
Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:11 AM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org=
; rtg-
> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami
> Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Subject: RE: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl=
-tlv-
> 07.txt
>=20
> Nobo, and all,
> 0x8001 =3D 32769 falls in the "Unassigned" range of TLVs for LSP Ping. I =
think
> that it has been considered as safe enough to use by the implementers.
> Somehow the relevant IANA registry does not provide any values for
> experimental use.
>=20
> My 2c,
>        Sasha
> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> Mobile: 054-9266302
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya
> > (nobo)
> > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:16 PM
> > To: Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
> > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
> > ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
> > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
> >
> > Hi Loa, Authors,
> >
> > The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped
> > implementation of the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=3D0x8001 is
> being used.
> >
> > I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this
> > implementation without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV
> > code point.
> >
> > If usage of Type=3D0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any
> > other implementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to assign
> > this value
> > (0x8001) when the document progresses?
> >
> > My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd and
> > the ADs.
> >
> > But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Nobo
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
> > > To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> > > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
> > > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> > > mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
> > > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
> > >
> > > Himanshu,
> > >
> > > A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to
> > > wg-chairs and ADs.
> > >
> > > The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that
> > > ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
> > >
> > > IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
> > >
> > > Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the proces=
s.
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > >
> > > On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> > > > This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
> > > (especially if reply mode is in-band).
> > > > I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go t=
hrough).
> > > >
> > > > Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > himanshu
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami
> > > > Boutros
> > > > (sboutros)
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> > > > To: Mach Chen
> > > > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> > > > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> > > > rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
> > > > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
> > > >
> > > > Resending..
> > > >
> > > > On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Minor Issues:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
> > > >>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in
> > > >>> the abstract
> > > section.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami: Sure will do.
> > > >>
> > > >>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo
> > > >>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used
> > > >>> in the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo
> > > >>> request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply",
> > > >>> "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> > > >>
> > > >>> 3.Section 3.1
> > > >>>
> > > >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> > +
> > > >>>      |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                   =
 |
> > > >>>
> > > >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> > > >>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value"
> > > >>> field to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami: Sure.
> > > >>
> > > >>> 4. Section 3.2
> > > >>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the
> > > >>> originator of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a
> > > >>> receiver does not understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore
> > > >>> the TLV (Type value of TLV is assumed to be in the range of
> > > >>> optional TLV's which SHOULD be ignored if an implementation does
> > > >>> not support or
> > understand them).
> > > >>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a
> > > >>> receiver, the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS
> > > >>> label on the echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is
> > > >>> it to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to
> > > >>> the implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in
> > > >>> RFC4379,
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure
> > > >> in 4379
> > > apply.
> > > >>> if
> > > >>
> > > >>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
> > > >>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or
> > > >>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems
> > > >>> a security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the
> > > >>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent,
> > > >>> the initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to
> > > >>> drop the whole
> > > echo request and record an error log.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >>
> > > >> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he
> > > >> does the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be
> > > >> the wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly
> > > >> on the reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old
> > > >> implementation and
> > > the TLV is optional.
> > > >>
> > > >> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 5. Section 3.2
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV
> > > >>> does not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as
> > > >>> Switching Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> > > >>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> > > >>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such
> > > >>> matching, seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
> > > includes?
> > > >>
> > > >>> 6. Section 4.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
> > > >>> label are set to 2,"
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better
> > > >>> to add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to
> > > >>> set the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will
> > > >> make it
> > > explicit that this is a PW label.
> > > >>
> > > >>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> > > >>>   "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively
> > > >>> set to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used
> > > >>> for the label  set on the packet."
> > > >>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> > > >>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> > > >>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it
> > > >>> mean the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should
> > > >>> be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example,
> > > >>> when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when
> > > >>> TTL is 1, which
> > > FEC should be carried?
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are
> > > >> describing
> > > how our extensions will apply.
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> > > >>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is
> > > >> no need
> > > for an error code.
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe
> > > >>> mode, if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should
> > > >>> define how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both
> > > >>> directions may span different hops).
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami:
> > > >> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how
> > > >> MS-PW
> > > trace work.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> Sami
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nits:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been
> > > >>> expanded in their first use.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please
> > > >>> check and fix.
> > > >>>    (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
> > > >>> references
> > > >>>     to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line
> > > >>> 121
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line
> > > >>> 258
> > > >>>
> > > >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no expli=
cit
> > > >>> reference
> > > >>>     was found in the text
> > > >>>
> > > >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no expli=
cit
> > > >>> reference
> > > >>>     was found in the text
> > > >>>
> > > >>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no expli=
cit
> > > >>> reference
> > > >>>     was found in the text
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 3. Section 3.2,
> > > >>> 3.1 first para first sentence
> > > >>> s/shall/SHALL
> > > >>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> > > >>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Best regards,
> > > >>> Mach
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > mpls mailing list
> > > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> > > Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:29:36 +0200
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Nobo,

If that is what you want, I can initiate the procedure to allocate that
code point.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 16:20, Nobo Akiya (nobo) wrote:
> Hi Sasha,
>
> I wish that was the case :)
>
> https://www.iana.org/assignments/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters.xhtml#tlvs
>
> 32768-49161
> Standards Action
> This range is for optional TLVs that can be silently dropped if not recognized.
>
> Thanks,
> Nobo
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:11 AM
>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami
>> Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>> Subject: RE: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-
>> 07.txt
>>
>> Nobo, and all,
>> 0x8001 = 32769 falls in the "Unassigned" range of TLVs for LSP Ping. I think
>> that it has been considered as safe enough to use by the implementers.
>> Somehow the relevant IANA registry does not provide any values for
>> experimental use.
>>
>> My 2c,
>>         Sasha
>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>> Mobile: 054-9266302
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya
>>> (nobo)
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:16 PM
>>> To: Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
>>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
>>>
>>> Hi Loa, Authors,
>>>
>>> The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped
>>> implementation of the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=0x8001 is
>> being used.
>>>
>>> I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this
>>> implementation without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV
>>> code point.
>>>
>>> If usage of Type=0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any
>>> other implementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to assign
>>> this value
>>> (0x8001) when the document progresses?
>>>
>>> My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd and
>>> the ADs.
>>>
>>> But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -Nobo
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
>>>> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>> mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
>>>>
>>>> Himanshu,
>>>>
>>>> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to
>>>> wg-chairs and ADs.
>>>>
>>>> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that
>>>> ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
>>>>
>>>> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
>>>>
>>>> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.
>>>>
>>>> /Loa
>>>>
>>>> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
>>>>> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
>>>> (especially if reply mode is in-band).
>>>>> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through).
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> himanshu
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami
>>>>> Boutros
>>>>> (sboutros)
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
>>>>> To: Mach Chen
>>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>>> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>> Resending..
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Minor Issues:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
>>>>>>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in
>>>>>>> the abstract
>>>> section.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo
>>>>>>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used
>>>>>>> in the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo
>>>>>>> request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply",
>>>>>>> "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>>> +
>>>>>>>       |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
>>>>>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value"
>>>>>>> field to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami: Sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>>>>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the
>>>>>>> originator of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a
>>>>>>> receiver does not understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore
>>>>>>> the TLV (Type value of TLV is assumed to be in the range of
>>>>>>> optional TLV's which SHOULD be ignored if an implementation does
>>>>>>> not support or
>>> understand them).
>>>>>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a
>>>>>>> receiver, the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS
>>>>>>> label on the echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is
>>>>>>> it to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to
>>>>>>> the implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in
>>>>>>> RFC4379,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure
>>>>>> in 4379
>>>> apply.
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
>>>>>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or
>>>>>>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems
>>>>>>> a security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the
>>>>>>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent,
>>>>>>> the initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to
>>>>>>> drop the whole
>>>> echo request and record an error log.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he
>>>>>> does the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be
>>>>>> the wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly
>>>>>> on the reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old
>>>>>> implementation and
>>>> the TLV is optional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV
>>>>>>> does not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as
>>>>>>> Switching Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>>>>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
>>>>>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such
>>>>>>> matching, seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
>>>> includes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
>>>>>>> label are set to 2,"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better
>>>>>>> to add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to
>>>>>>> set the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will
>>>>>> make it
>>>> explicit that this is a PW label.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>>>>>    "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively
>>>>>>> set to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used
>>>>>>> for the label  set on the packet."
>>>>>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
>>>>>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
>>>>>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it
>>>>>>> mean the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should
>>>>>>> be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example,
>>>>>>> when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when
>>>>>>> TTL is 1, which
>>>> FEC should be carried?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are
>>>>>> describing
>>>> how our extensions will apply.
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>>>>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is
>>>>>> no need
>>>> for an error code.
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe
>>>>>>> mode, if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should
>>>>>>> define how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both
>>>>>>> directions may span different hops).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how
>>>>>> MS-PW
>>>> trace work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sami
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nits:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been
>>>>>>> expanded in their first use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please
>>>>>>> check and fix.
>>>>>>>     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
>>>>>>> references
>>>>>>>      to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line
>>>>>>> 121
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line
>>>>>>> 258
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> == Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> == Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> == Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>>>>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>>>>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>>>>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
>>>>>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> Mach
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Nobo,

dam it - you are not an author of this document, so you can't request
the early allocation. If you think we should do it, tell one of the
authors to send me a mail.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 16:29, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Nobo,
>
> If that is what you want, I can initiate the procedure to allocate that
> code point.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2014-07-31 16:20, Nobo Akiya (nobo) wrote:
>> Hi Sasha,
>>
>> I wish that was the case :)
>>
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters.xhtml#tlvs
>>
>>
>> 32768-49161
>> Standards Action
>> This range is for optional TLVs that can be silently dropped if not
>> recognized.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nobo
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:11 AM
>>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
>>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami
>>> Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>> Subject: RE: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-
>>> 07.txt
>>>
>>> Nobo, and all,
>>> 0x8001 = 32769 falls in the "Unassigned" range of TLVs for LSP Ping.
>>> I think
>>> that it has been considered as safe enough to use by the implementers.
>>> Somehow the relevant IANA registry does not provide any values for
>>> experimental use.
>>>
>>> My 2c,
>>>         Sasha
>>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>>> Mobile: 054-9266302
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya
>>>> (nobo)
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:16 PM
>>>> To: Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
>>>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
>>>>
>>>> Hi Loa, Authors,
>>>>
>>>> The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped
>>>> implementation of the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=0x8001 is
>>> being used.
>>>>
>>>> I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this
>>>> implementation without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV
>>>> code point.
>>>>
>>>> If usage of Type=0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any
>>>> other implementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to assign
>>>> this value
>>>> (0x8001) when the document progresses?
>>>>
>>>> My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd and
>>>> the ADs.
>>>>
>>>> But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> -Nobo
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
>>>>> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>>> mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>> Himanshu,
>>>>>
>>>>> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to
>>>>> wg-chairs and ADs.
>>>>>
>>>>> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that
>>>>> ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
>>>>>
>>>>> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the
>>>>> process.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Loa
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
>>>>>> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
>>>>> (especially if reply mode is in-band).
>>>>>> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go
>>>>>> through).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> himanshu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami
>>>>>> Boutros
>>>>>> (sboutros)
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Mach Chen
>>>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
>>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>>>> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
>>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Resending..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Minor Issues:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
>>>>>>>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in
>>>>>>>> the abstract
>>>>> section.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo
>>>>>>>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used
>>>>>>>> in the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo
>>>>>>>> request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply",
>>>>>>>> "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>>>> +
>>>>>>>>       |   Value       |   Reserved    |
>>>>>>>> Flags                    |
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
>>>>>>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value"
>>>>>>>> field to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>>>>>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the
>>>>>>>> originator of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a
>>>>>>>> receiver does not understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore
>>>>>>>> the TLV (Type value of TLV is assumed to be in the range of
>>>>>>>> optional TLV's which SHOULD be ignored if an implementation does
>>>>>>>> not support or
>>>> understand them).
>>>>>>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a
>>>>>>>> receiver, the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS
>>>>>>>> label on the echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is
>>>>>>>> it to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to
>>>>>>>> the implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in
>>>>>>>> RFC4379,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure
>>>>>>> in 4379
>>>>> apply.
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
>>>>>>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or
>>>>>>>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems
>>>>>>>> a security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the
>>>>>>>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent,
>>>>>>>> the initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to
>>>>>>>> drop the whole
>>>>> echo request and record an error log.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he
>>>>>>> does the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be
>>>>>>> the wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly
>>>>>>> on the reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old
>>>>>>> implementation and
>>>>> the TLV is optional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV
>>>>>>>> does not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as
>>>>>>>> Switching Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>>>>>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
>>>>>>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such
>>>>>>>> matching, seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
>>>>> includes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
>>>>>>>> label are set to 2,"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better
>>>>>>>> to add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to
>>>>>>>> set the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will
>>>>>>> make it
>>>>> explicit that this is a PW label.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>>>>>>    "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively
>>>>>>>> set to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used
>>>>>>>> for the label  set on the packet."
>>>>>>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
>>>>>>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
>>>>>>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it
>>>>>>>> mean the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should
>>>>>>>> be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example,
>>>>>>>> when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when
>>>>>>>> TTL is 1, which
>>>>> FEC should be carried?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are
>>>>>>> describing
>>>>> how our extensions will apply.
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>>>>>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is
>>>>>>> no need
>>>>> for an error code.
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe
>>>>>>>> mode, if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should
>>>>>>>> define how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both
>>>>>>>> directions may span different hops).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how
>>>>>>> MS-PW
>>>>> trace work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nits:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been
>>>>>>>> expanded in their first use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please
>>>>>>>> check and fix.
>>>>>>>>     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
>>>>>>>> references
>>>>>>>>      to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line
>>>>>>>> 121
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line
>>>>>>>> 258
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> == Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> == Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> == Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>>>>>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>>>>>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>>>>>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
>>>>>>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Mach
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:50:50 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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To: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>,  "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
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Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org>, "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Himanshu,

The process is that authors request through a mail to the wg chairs,
chairs initiate this by a mail to IANA and the ADs.

Get an author to send the request to wg-chairs.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 15:14, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> Thanks Loa.
> Early allocation request could have been made much earlier, but that is water under the bridge now.
> I would still favor requesting for provisional IANA code allocation now.
> This would allow interoperability of the ongoing implementations.
>
> /himanshu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>
> Himanshu,
>
> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to wg-chairs and ADs.
>
> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
>
> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
>
> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
>> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especially if reply mode is in-band).
>> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through).
>>
>> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> himanshu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
>> (sboutros)
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
>> To: Mach Chen
>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>>
>> Resending..
>>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Minor Issues:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
>>>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abstract section.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>>
>>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",
>>>> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,
>>>> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to
>>>> align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional
>>>> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>>
>>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>       |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>>>
>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>
>>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
>>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field
>>>> to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Sure.
>>>
>>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
>>>> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
>>>> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
>>>> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
>>>> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them).
>>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver,
>>>> the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the
>>>> echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>>
>>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it
>>>> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
>>>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in
>>>> RFC4379,
>>>
>>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 4379 apply.
>>>> if
>>>
>>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
>>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or
>>>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a
>>>> security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the
>>>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the
>>>> initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whole echo request and record an error log.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does
>>> the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the
>>> wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the
>>> reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation and the TLV is optional.
>>>
>>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>>
>>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
>>>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching
>>>> Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
>>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
>>>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includes?
>>>
>>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>>
>>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
>>>> label are set to 2,"
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
>>>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set
>>>> the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it explicit that this is a PW label.
>>>
>>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>>    "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set
>>>> to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the
>>>> label  set on the packet."
>>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
>>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
>>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean
>>>> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be
>>>> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when
>>>> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, which FEC should be carried?
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describing how our extensions will apply.
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need for an error code.
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode,
>>>> if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how
>>>> the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may
>>>> span different hops).
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trace work.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Sami
>>>>
>>>> Nits:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in
>>>> their first use.
>>>>
>>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check
>>>> and fix.
>>>>     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
>>>> references
>>>>      to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>>
>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
>>>>
>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
>>>>
>>>> == Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
>>>> reference
>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>
>>>> == Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
>>>> reference
>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>
>>>> == Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
>>>> reference
>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>
>>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>>
>>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
>>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Mach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Loa,

Sorry about the confusion. I was requesting for a specific value to be allo=
cated when the document progresses. But you are right, a better approach wo=
uld be to initiate early IANA allocation to reserve that specific value, wh=
ich should come from authors.

 I will reach out to the authors to send you an official request for early =
IANA allocation with specific value (0x8001) for the TTL TLV.

Thanks!

-Nobo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:45 AM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Sami Boutros (sboutros); rtg-
> ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl=
-tlv-
> 07.txt
>=20
> Nobo,
>=20
> dam it - you are not an author of this document, so you can't request the
> early allocation. If you think we should do it, tell one of the authors t=
o send
> me a mail.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> On 2014-07-31 16:29, Loa Andersson wrote:
> > Nobo,
> >
> > If that is what you want, I can initiate the procedure to allocate
> > that code point.
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> > On 2014-07-31 16:20, Nobo Akiya (nobo) wrote:
> >> Hi Sasha,
> >>
> >> I wish that was the case :)
> >>
> >> https://www.iana.org/assignments/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters/mpls-lsp-
> pi
> >> ng-parameters.xhtml#tlvs
> >>
> >>
> >> 32768-49161
> >> Standards Action
> >> This range is for optional TLVs that can be silently dropped if not
> >> recognized.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Nobo
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Alexander Vainshtein
> [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:11 AM
> >>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
> >>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
> >>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu;
> >>> Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> >>> Subject: RE: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-
> >>> 07.txt
> >>>
> >>> Nobo, and all,
> >>> 0x8001 =3D 32769 falls in the "Unassigned" range of TLVs for LSP Ping=
.
> >>> I think
> >>> that it has been considered as safe enough to use by the implementers=
.
> >>> Somehow the relevant IANA registry does not provide any values for
> >>> experimental use.
> >>>
> >>> My 2c,
> >>>         Sasha
> >>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> >>> Mobile: 054-9266302
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya
> >>>> (nobo)
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:16 PM
> >>>> To: Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach
> >>>> Chen
> >>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
> >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-
> >>>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
> >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Loa, Authors,
> >>>>
> >>>> The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped
> >>>> implementation of the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=3D0x8001
> >>>> is
> >>> being used.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this
> >>>> implementation without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV
> >>>> code point.
> >>>>
> >>>> If usage of Type=3D0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any
> >>>> other implementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to
> >>>> assign this value
> >>>> (0x8001) when the document progresses?
> >>>>
> >>>> My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd
> >>>> and the ADs.
> >>>>
> >>>> But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks!
> >>>>
> >>>> -Nobo
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa
> >>>>> Andersson
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
> >>>>> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> >>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
> >>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> >>>>> mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
> >>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Himanshu,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to
> >>>>> wg-chairs and ADs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given
> >>>>> that ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the
> >>>>> process.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Loa
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> >>>>>> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
> >>>>> (especially if reply mode is in-band).
> >>>>>> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go
> >>>>>> through).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> himanshu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami
> >>>>>> Boutros
> >>>>>> (sboutros)
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> >>>>>> To: Mach Chen
> >>>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
> >>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
> >>>>>> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
> >>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Resending..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Minor Issues:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and
> >>>>>>>> bidirectional co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly
> >>>>>>>> state this in the abstract
> >>>>> section.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami: Sure will do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo
> >>>>>>>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used
> >>>>>>>> in the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS
> >>>>>>>> echo request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo
> >>>>>>>> reply", "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar iss=
ue.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 3.Section 3.1
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> >>>> +
> >>>>>>>>       |   Value       |   Reserved    |
> >>>>>>>> Flags                    |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> >>>>>>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value"
> >>>>>>>> field to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami: Sure.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 4. Section 3.2
> >>>>>>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the
> >>>>>>>> originator of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a
> >>>>>>>> receiver does not understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore
> >>>>>>>> the TLV (Type value of TLV is assumed to be in the range of
> >>>>>>>> optional TLV's which SHOULD be ignored if an implementation
> >>>>>>>> does not support or
> >>>> understand them).
> >>>>>>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a
> >>>>>>>> receiver, the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS
> >>>>>>>> label on the echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here?
> >>>>>>>> Is it to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it
> >>>>>>>> to the implementation?I guess you assume to apply the
> >>>>>>>> definition in RFC4379,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure
> >>>>>>> procedure in 4379
> >>>>> apply.
> >>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,
> >>>>>>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW
> >>>>>>>> or LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it
> >>>>>>>> seems a security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to
> >>>>>>>> expect the receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and
> >>>>>>>> even sent, the initiator will not receive the reply. The safer
> >>>>>>>> way is to drop the whole
> >>>>> echo request and record an error log.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he
> >>>>>>> does the reply may be received by the ingress node which might
> >>>>>>> be the wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL
> >>>>>>> properly on the reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with
> >>>>>>> an old implementation and
> >>>>> the TLV is optional.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 5. Section 3.2
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV
> >>>>>>>> does not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as
> >>>>>>>> Switching Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> >>>>>>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> >>>>>>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such
> >>>>>>>> matching, seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
> >>>>> includes?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the
> >>>>>>>> MPLS label are set to 2,"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better
> >>>>>>>> to add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how
> >>>>>>>> to set the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value=
?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will
> >>>>>>> make it
> >>>>> explicit that this is a PW label.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> >>>>>>>>    "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively
> >>>>>>>> set to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used
> >>>>>>>> for the label  set on the packet."
> >>>>>>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> >>>>>>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> >>>>>>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it
> >>>>>>>> mean the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test
> >>>>>>>> should be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For
> >>>>>>>> example, when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D
> >>>>>>>> segment), when TTL is 1, which
> >>>>> FEC should be carried?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are
> >>>>>>> describing
> >>>>> how our extensions will apply.
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> >>>>>>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is
> >>>>>>> no need
> >>>>> for an error code.
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe
> >>>>>>>> mode, if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should
> >>>>>>>> define how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in
> >>>>>>>> both directions may span different hops).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami:
> >>>>>>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how
> >>>>>>> MS-PW
> >>>>> trace work.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sami
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Nits:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been
> >>>>>>>> expanded in their first use.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please
> >>>>>>>> check and fix.
> >>>>>>>>     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using
> >>>>>>>> normative references
> >>>>>>>>      to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on
> >>>>>>>> line
> >>>>>>>> 121
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on
> >>>>>>>> line
> >>>>>>>> 258
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no
> >>>>>>>> explicit reference
> >>>>>>>>      was found in the text
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no
> >>>>>>>> explicit reference
> >>>>>>>>      was found in the text
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no
> >>>>>>>> explicit reference
> >>>>>>>>      was found in the text
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 3. Section 3.2,
> >>>>>>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
> >>>>>>>> s/shall/SHALL
> >>>>>>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> >>>>>>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>> Mach
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> mpls mailing list
> >>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> >>>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> >>>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> mpls mailing list
> >>>>> mpls@ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> mpls mailing list
> >>>> mpls@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Thu Jul 31 07:53:36 2014
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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>,  Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:53:13 -0400
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Sure. Thanks Loa..

(this is IETF.. we shouldn't get hung up on process thingy... :-))

/himanshu

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:51 AM
To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; =
mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.t=
xt

Himanshu,

The process is that authors request through a mail to the wg chairs, chairs=
 initiate this by a mail to IANA and the ADs.

Get an author to send the request to wg-chairs.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 15:14, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> Thanks Loa.
> Early allocation request could have been made much earlier, but that is w=
ater under the bridge now.
> I would still favor requesting for provisional IANA code allocation now.
> This would allow interoperability of the ongoing implementations.
>
> /himanshu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;=20
> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>
> Himanshu,
>
> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to wg-chair=
s and ADs.
>
> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given that ADri=
an is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
>
> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
>
> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the process.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
>> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especi=
ally if reply mode is in-band).
>> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go throug=
h).
>>
>> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> himanshu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
>> (sboutros)
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
>> To: Mach Chen
>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;
>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>>
>> Resending..
>>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Minor Issues:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional=20
>>>> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abs=
tract section.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>>
>>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo=20
>>>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in=20
>>>> the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo=20
>>>> request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply",=20
>>>> "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>>
>>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+
>>>>       |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
>>>>
>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>
>>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",=20
>>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field=20
>>>> to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Sure.
>>>
>>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator=20
>>>> of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not=20
>>>> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value=20
>>>> of TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD=20
>>>> be ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them).
>>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver,=20
>>>> the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the=20
>>>> echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>>
>>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it=20
>>>> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the=20
>>>> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in=20
>>>> RFC4379,
>>>
>>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 43=
79 apply.
>>>> if
>>>
>>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,=20
>>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or=20
>>>> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a=20
>>>> security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the=20
>>>> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the=20
>>>> initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the who=
le echo request and record an error log.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does=20
>>> the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the=20
>>> wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the=20
>>> reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation =
and the TLV is optional.
>>>
>>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>>
>>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does=20
>>>> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching=20
>>>> Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching=20
>>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,=20
>>>> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includ=
es?
>>>
>>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>>
>>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS=20
>>>> label are set to 2,"
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to=20
>>>> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set=20
>>>> the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it =
explicit that this is a PW label.
>>>
>>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>>    "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set=20
>>>> to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the=20
>>>> label  set on the packet."
>>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be=20
>>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the=20
>>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean=20
>>>> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be=20
>>>> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when=20
>>>> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, whi=
ch FEC should be carried?
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describin=
g how our extensions will apply.
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need=
 for an error code.
>>> Sami:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode,=20
>>>> if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define=20
>>>> how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both=20
>>>> directions may span different hops).
>>>
>>> Sami:
>>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trac=
e work.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Sami
>>>>
>>>> Nits:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded=20
>>>> in their first use.
>>>>
>>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check=20
>>>> and fix.
>>>>     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative=20
>>>> references
>>>>      to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>>
>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line=20
>>>> 121
>>>>
>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line=20
>>>> 258
>>>>
>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit=20
>>>> reference
>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>
>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit=20
>>>> reference
>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>
>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit=20
>>>> reference
>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>
>>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>>
>>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP=20
>>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Mach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>

--=20


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" <msiva@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "Alexander Vainshtein" <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Loa,

(chiming in as a co-author)

Please could you do the needful to allocate the code-point.

Thanks Himanshu and Nobo for initiating this discussion.

Regards,
Siva

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:45 AM
To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Sami Boutros (sboutros); rtg-ads@tools=
.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-t=
lv-07.txt

Nobo,

dam it - you are not an author of this document, so you can't request the e=
arly allocation. If you think we should do it, tell one of the authors to s=
end me a mail.

/Loa

On 2014-07-31 16:29, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Nobo,
>
> If that is what you want, I can initiate the procedure to allocate=20
> that code point.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2014-07-31 16:20, Nobo Akiya (nobo) wrote:
>> Hi Sasha,
>>
>> I wish that was the case :)
>>
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/mpls-lsp-ping-parameters/mpls-lsp-pi
>> ng-parameters.xhtml#tlvs
>>
>>
>> 32768-49161
>> Standards Action
>> This range is for optional TLVs that can be silently dropped if not=20
>> recognized.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nobo
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alexander Vainshtein [mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:11 AM
>>> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo)
>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-=20
>>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu;=20
>>> Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>> Subject: RE: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-
>>> 07.txt
>>>
>>> Nobo, and all,
>>> 0x8001 =3D 32769 falls in the "Unassigned" range of TLVs for LSP Ping.
>>> I think
>>> that it has been considered as safe enough to use by the implementers.
>>> Somehow the relevant IANA registry does not provide any values for=20
>>> experimental use.
>>>
>>> My 2c,
>>>         Sasha
>>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>>> Mobile: 054-9266302
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya
>>>> (nobo)
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:16 PM
>>>> To: Loa Andersson; Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach=20
>>>> Chen
>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-=20
>>>> ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
>>>>
>>>> Hi Loa, Authors,
>>>>
>>>> The code base which I'm familiar with already have shipped=20
>>>> implementation of the TTL TLV, and it appears that the Type=3D0x8001=20
>>>> is
>>> being used.
>>>>
>>>> I do not have the knowledge of why this value was used in this=20
>>>> implementation without doing early IANA allocation for the TTL TLV=20
>>>> code point.
>>>>
>>>> If usage of Type=3D0x8001 as the TTL TLV does not conflict with any=20
>>>> other implementations out there, is it possible to ask IANA to=20
>>>> assign this value
>>>> (0x8001) when the document progresses?
>>>>
>>>> My apologies for causing extra burden on the authors, the Shepherd=20
>>>> and the ADs.
>>>>
>>>> But I truly hope that this request can be accommodated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> -Nobo
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=20
>>>>> Andersson
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:08 AM
>>>>> To: Shah, Himanshu; Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
>>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org;
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>>> mpls@ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review:
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv- 07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>> Himanshu,
>>>>>
>>>>> A request for early allocation need to come from the authors, to=20
>>>>> wg-chairs and ADs.
>>>>>
>>>>> The draft is through IETF Last call and has been updated, given=20
>>>>> that ADrian is comfortable it will be on the IESG agenda shortly.
>>>>>
>>>>> IANA has reviewed it and are OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Normally I would not ask for early allocation this late in the=20
>>>>> process.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Loa
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2014-07-31 01:15, Shah, Himanshu wrote:
>>>>>> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW
>>>>> (especially if reply mode is in-band).
>>>>>> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go=20
>>>>>> through).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> himanshu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami=20
>>>>>> Boutros
>>>>>> (sboutros)
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Mach Chen
>>>>>> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org;=20
>>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org;
>>>>>> rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
>>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Resending..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Minor Issues:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and=20
>>>>>>>> bidirectional co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly=20
>>>>>>>> state this in the abstract
>>>>> section.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Sure will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo=20
>>>>>>>> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used=20
>>>>>>>> in the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS=20
>>>>>>>> echo request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo=20
>>>>>>>> reply", "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue=
.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Ok, will fix that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3.Section 3.1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>>>> +
>>>>>>>>       |   Value       |   Reserved    |
>>>>>>>> Flags                    |
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",=20
>>>>>>>> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value"
>>>>>>>> field to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. Section 3.2
>>>>>>>> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the=20
>>>>>>>> originator of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a=20
>>>>>>>> receiver does not understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore=20
>>>>>>>> the TLV (Type value of TLV is assumed to be in the range of=20
>>>>>>>> optional TLV's which SHOULD be ignored if an implementation=20
>>>>>>>> does not support or
>>>> understand them).
>>>>>>>> In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a=20
>>>>>>>> receiver, the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS=20
>>>>>>>> label on the echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here?=20
>>>>>>>> Is it to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it=20
>>>>>>>> to the implementation?I guess you assume to apply the=20
>>>>>>>> definition in RFC4379,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure=20
>>>>>>> procedure in 4379
>>>>> apply.
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,=20
>>>>>>>> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW=20
>>>>>>>> or LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it=20
>>>>>>>> seems a security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to=20
>>>>>>>> expect the receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and=20
>>>>>>>> even sent, the initiator will not receive the reply. The safer=20
>>>>>>>> way is to drop the whole
>>>>> echo request and record an error log.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he=20
>>>>>>> does the reply may be received by the ingress node which might=20
>>>>>>> be the wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL=20
>>>>>>> properly on the reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with=20
>>>>>>> an old implementation and
>>>>> the TLV is optional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5. Section 3.2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV=20
>>>>>>>> does not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as=20
>>>>>>>> Switching Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
>>>>>>>> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching=20
>>>>>>>> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such=20
>>>>>>>> matching, seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it
>>>>> includes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the=20
>>>>>>>> MPLS label are set to 2,"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better=20
>>>>>>>> to add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how=20
>>>>>>>> to set the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will=20
>>>>>>> make it
>>>>> explicit that this is a PW label.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
>>>>>>>>    "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively=20
>>>>>>>> set to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used=20
>>>>>>>> for the label  set on the packet."
>>>>>>>> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be=20
>>>>>>>> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the=20
>>>>>>>> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it=20
>>>>>>>> mean the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test=20
>>>>>>>> should be carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For=20
>>>>>>>> example, when perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D=20
>>>>>>>> segment), when TTL is 1, which
>>>>> FEC should be carried?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>> We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are=20
>>>>>>> describing
>>>>> how our extensions will apply.
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
>>>>>>>> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>> The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is=20
>>>>>>> no need
>>>>> for an error code.
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe=20
>>>>>>>> mode, if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should=20
>>>>>>>> define how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in=20
>>>>>>>> both directions may span different hops).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami:
>>>>>>> Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how=20
>>>>>>> MS-PW
>>>>> trace work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sami
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nits:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been=20
>>>>>>>> expanded in their first use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please=20
>>>>>>>> check and fix.
>>>>>>>>     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using=20
>>>>>>>> normative references
>>>>>>>>      to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on=20
>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>> 121
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on=20
>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>> 258
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no=20
>>>>>>>> explicit reference
>>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no=20
>>>>>>>> explicit reference
>>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no=20
>>>>>>>> explicit reference
>>>>>>>>      was found in the text
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Section 3.2,
>>>>>>>> 3.1 first para first sentence
>>>>>>>> s/shall/SHALL
>>>>>>>> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP=20
>>>>>>>> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Mach
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>>>>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>>>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--=20


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Shah, Himanshu'" <hshah@ciena.com>, "'Sami Boutros \(sboutros\)'" <sboutros@cisco.com>, "'Mach Chen'" <mach.chen@huawei.com>
References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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OK, I'm moving this forward now that we have a new revision (posted yesterday,
and a response from Mach today),

Please note that none of this is magic! To advance a document that is in review
you have to complete the discussion of review comments and post a revision. The
authors and shepherd are responsible for chasing down those comments: you can
come to the AD to handle issues of silence, but the AD cannot micro-manage all
of the documents and it doesn't help to ask why this has taken so long when no
update was posted.

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]
> Sent: 31 July 2014 00:15
> To: Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-
> tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
> 
> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW (especially
if
> reply mode is in-band).
> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through).
> 
> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
> 
> Thanks,
> himanshu
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
> (sboutros)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-
> tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
> 
> Resending..
> 
> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> Minor Issues:
> >>
> >> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional
> >> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the abstract
section.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure will do.
> >
> >> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo request",
> >> "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in the draft,
> >> it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo request" (to align
> >> with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply", "bidirectional
> >> co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> >
> >> 3.Section 3.1
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>     |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",
> >> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field to
> >> "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure.
> >
> >> 4. Section 3.2
> >> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator of
> >> request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not
> >> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value of
> >> TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD be
> >> ignored if an implementation does not support or understand them). In
> >> the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a receiver, the
> >> determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label on the echo
> >> reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> >>
> >> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it
> >> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the
> >> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in RFC4379,
> >
> > Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in 4379
apply.
> >> if
> >
> >> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255, means
> >> the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or LSP. I am
> >> not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a security
> >> issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the receiver to
> >> send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the initiator will
> >> not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the whole echo request and
> record an error log.
> >
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> > We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does
> > the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the wrong
> > node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the reply,
> > keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old implementation and the TLV
is
> optional.
> >
> > Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> 5. Section 3.2
> >>
> >> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does
> >> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching Point
> >> TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> >> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching
> >> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,
> >> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includes?
> >
> >> 6. Section 4.
> >>
> >> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS
> >> label are set to 2,"
> >>
> >> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to
> >> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set the
> >> TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> >>
> >
> > Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make it
explicit
> that this is a PW label.
> >
> >> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> >>  "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set to
> >> 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the
> >> label  set on the packet."
> >> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be
> >> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the
> >> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean
> >> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be
> >> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when
> >> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1, which
FEC
> should be carried?
> >
> > Sami:
> > We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are describing how
> our extensions will apply.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> >> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> >
> > Sami:
> > The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no need for
an
> error code.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode, if
> >> so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define how the
> >> MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both directions may span
> >> different hops).
> >
> > Sami:
> > Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW trace
> work.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sami
> >>
> >> Nits:
> >>
> >> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded in
> >> their first use.
> >>
> >> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check
> >> and fix.
> >>   (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative
> >> references
> >>    to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line 121
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line 258
> >>
> >> == Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> == Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> == Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> 3. Section 3.2,
> >> 3.1 first para first sentence
> >> s/shall/SHALL
> >> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> >>
> >> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP
> >> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Mach
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "'Sami Boutros (sboutros)'" <sboutros@cisco.com>, "'Mach Chen'" <mach.chen@huawei.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:41:37 -0400
Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Hi Adrian -
By no means I was wondering about the delay in review process.
Sorry if it came off that way.
I was surprised about the overall time and the number of revisions that it =
went through.

/himanshu


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:23 PM
To: Shah, Himanshu; 'Sami Boutros (sboutros)'; 'Mach Chen'
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@t=
ools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt

OK, I'm moving this forward now that we have a new revision (posted yesterd=
ay, and a response from Mach today),

Please note that none of this is magic! To advance a document that is in re=
view you have to complete the discussion of review comments and post a revi=
sion. The authors and shepherd are responsible for chasing down those comme=
nts: you can come to the AD to handle issues of silence, but the AD cannot =
micro-manage all of the documents and it doesn't help to ask why this has t=
aken so long when no update was posted.

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]
> Sent: 31 July 2014 00:15
> To: Sami Boutros (sboutros); Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-=20
> tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>=20
> This draft fills a major shortcoming of the VCCV ping over MS-PW=20
> (especially
if
> reply mode is in-band).
> I am not sure why this draft is stuck (i.e. taking too long to go through=
).
>=20
> Is there a provisional IANA assignment for the TTL TLV type value?
>=20
> Thanks,
> himanshu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sami Boutros
> (sboutros)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:44 PM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-=20
> tlv.all@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>=20
> Resending..
>=20
> On May 15, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Sami Boutros (sboutros) wrote:
>=20
> >>
> >> Minor Issues:
> >>
> >> 1. Since the TTL TLV is defined for both MS-PW and bidirectional=20
> >> co-routed LSP, it should be better to explicitly state this in the=20
> >> abstract
section.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure will do.
> >
> >> 2. "LSP-Ping echo request", "LSP-Ping request", "MPLS echo=20
> >> request", "echo request" and "request" are interchangeably used in=20
> >> the draft, it's better to unify the usage of it to "MPLS echo=20
> >> request" (to align with the usage in RFC4379). For "echo reply",=20
> >> "bidirectional co-routed LSP", they have the similar issue.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Ok, will fix that.
> >
> >> 3.Section 3.1
> >>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>     |   Value       |   Reserved    |   Flags                    |
> >>    =20
> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >> For the TTL TLV, the value filed should include the "value",=20
> >> "Reserved" and "Flags", so it's better to change the "Value" field=20
> >> to "TTL" field hence to reduce the confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Sure.
> >
> >> 4. Section 3.2
> >> "This TLV shall be included in the echo request by the originator=20
> >> of request. The use of this TLV is optional. If a receiver does not=20
> >> understand the TTL TLV, it will simply ignore the TLV (Type value=20
> >> of TLV is assumed to be in the range of optional TLV's which SHOULD=20
> >> be ignored if an implementation does not support or understand=20
> >> them). In the absence of TTL TLV or if TTL TLV is ignored by a=20
> >> receiver, the determination of the TTL value used in the MPLS label=20
> >> on the echo reply is beyond the scope of this document."
> >>
> >> What's your mean of "beyond the scope of this document" here? Is it=20
> >> to apply the procedures defined in RFC4379 or just let it to the=20
> >> implementation?I guess you assume to apply the definition in=20
> >> RFC4379,
> >
> > Sami: It is out of scope of this document, but for sure procedure in=20
> > 4379
apply.
> >> if
> >
> >> so, the TTL of the MPLS label will be more probably set to 255,=20
> >> means the echo reply will be sent to the ingress of the MS-PW or=20
> >> LSP. I am not sure whether this is the right procedure, it seems a=20
> >> security issue. IMHO, it does not make any sense to expect the=20
> >> receiver to send echo reply in this situation, and even sent, the=20
> >> initiator will not receive the reply. The safer way is to drop the=20
> >> whole echo request and
> record an error log.
> >
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> > We are not saying the receiver must send a reply, however if he does=20
> > the reply may be received by the ingress node which might be the=20
> > wrong node, since the receiver may not set the TTL properly on the=20
> > reply, keep in mind that this is a receiver with an old=20
> > implementation and the TLV
is
> optional.
> >
> > Please refer to the security section for your security concern.
> >
> > Sami:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> 5. Section 3.2
> >>
> >> "In other words, if the value of the TTL provided by this TLV does=20
> >> not match the TTL  determined by other means, such as Switching=20
> >> Point TLV in MS-PW, then  TTL TLV must be used."
> >> Here, it implies that the receiver has to perform TTL matching=20
> >> process, since how to set the TTL is independent of such matching,=20
> >> seems this sentence is redundant and confusion.
> >>
> >
> > Sami: Are you familiar with the switching point TLV? and what it includ=
es?
> >
> >> 6. Section 4.
> >>
> >> "...The value field of the TTL TLV and the TTL field of the MPLS=20
> >> label are set to 2,"
> >>
> >> I guess that the MPLS Label is the PW label, right? It's better to=20
> >> add more text to make this more explicit. In addition, how to set=20
> >> the TTL value of the tunnel Label? 255 or any other value?
> >>
> >
> > Sami: The tunnel label TTL is irrelevant here, however we will make=20
> > it
explicit
> that this is a PW label.
> >
> >> 5. Section 4.1. Traceroute mode
> >>  "In the traceroute mode TTL value in the TLV is successively set=20
> >> to 1,  2, and so on. This is similar to the TTL values used for the=20
> >> label  set on the packet."
> >> IMHO, some text may be needed to clarify which "FEC" should be=20
> >> carried, especially for MS-PW trace. Since in Section 4.0, the=20
> >> example says the FEC of segment C-D should be carried, does it mean=20
> >> the FEC of last PW Segment of the segment under test should be=20
> >> carried or the FEC will vary when TTL changed. For example, when=20
> >> perform segment trace (e.g., to trace B-D segment), when TTL is 1,=20
> >> which
FEC
> should be carried?
> >
> > Sami:
> > We are not here redefining  a trace route for a MS-PW, we are=20
> > describing how
> our extensions will apply.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 6. Section 4.2. Error scenario
> >> For this scenario, do you need to define some error codes here?
> >
> > Sami:
> > The section describe how to handle the error scenario, there is no=20
> > need for
an
> error code.
> > Sami:
> >
> >>
> >> 7. For MS-PW trace, seems that you assume the tunnel is pipe mode,=20
> >> if so, it should be explicitly stated. If not, you should define=20
> >> how the MS-PW trace works (given that the tunnels in both=20
> >> directions may span different hops).
> >
> > Sami:
> > Not sure I get the concern? Again we are not re-defining how MS-PW=20
> > trace
> work.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sami
> >>
> >> Nits:
> >>
> >> 1. Please check the text for acronyms that have not been expanded=20
> >> in their first use.
> >>
> >> 2. I run the idnits tool and found the following nits, please check=20
> >> and fix.
> >>   (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative=20
> >> references
> >>    to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC2119' on line=20
> >> 121
> >>
> >> -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: 'RFC4379' on line=20
> >> 258
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '1' is defined on line 284, but no explicit=20
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '2' is defined on line 287, but no explicit=20
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> =3D=3D Unused Reference: '3' is defined on line 291, but no explicit=20
> >> reference
> >>    was found in the text
> >>
> >> 3. Section 3.2,
> >> 3.1 first para first sentence
> >> s/shall/SHALL
> >> 3.2 last para, the last second sentence s/must/MUST
> >>
> >> 4. The draft quotes the MS-PW and bidirectional co-routed LSP=20
> >> concept, it's better to add related references to this document.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Mach
> >>
> >>
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Thu Jul 31 11:04:12 2014
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Shah, Himanshu'" <hshah@ciena.com>, "'Sami Boutros \(sboutros\)'" <sboutros@cisco.com>
References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <001201cface4$33eaf1b0$9bc0d510$@olddog.co.uk> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F63A@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com>
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 19:04:01 +0100
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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> By no means I was wondering about the delay in review process.
> Sorry if it came off that way.

OK. Sorry if I'm grumpy. Sitting in the departure lounge at Rio airport putting
up with stupid people being too loud!

Wrt IANA...
There is nothing allocated so far from 32768-49161 so IANA (left to their own
devices) would allocate 32768 (which I think is 0x8000).
Thus, you need to do something if you want 0x8001.

As soon as I move this document to early allocation IANA will do a provisional
allocation. Thus I will *not* do that until we have resolved this issue or you
will get 0x8000 and be unhappy.

But early allocation at this point is a waste of effort.

Please simply add to the I-D "IANA is requested to allocate the value 32769."
Then we can all go ahead quickly and get the right results.

Cheers,
Adrian

PS.  On a separate rant! Picking a value at random during implementation and
deploying it is crazy behavior likely to get you in a real mess when some other
implementer picks the same value for a different feature. We have a registry for
a reason. Please don't break the Internet by ignoring the process, but get into
the habit of using RFC 7120 for early allocation when appropriate (not after the
fact!)


From nobody Thu Jul 31 11:25:01 2014
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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "'Sami Boutros (sboutros)'" <sboutros@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:24:49 -0400
Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Thanks Adrian -

Request to Authors (Sami/Siva/others) -

Can you please add the suggested text (below) in the draft in order to obta=
in the 0x8001 value from the IANA?

Thanks,
Himanshu

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:04 PM
To: Shah, Himanshu; 'Sami Boutros (sboutros)'
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt

> By no means I was wondering about the delay in review process.
> Sorry if it came off that way.

OK. Sorry if I'm grumpy. Sitting in the departure lounge at Rio airport put=
ting up with stupid people being too loud!

Wrt IANA...
There is nothing allocated so far from 32768-49161 so IANA (left to their o=
wn
devices) would allocate 32768 (which I think is 0x8000).
Thus, you need to do something if you want 0x8001.

As soon as I move this document to early allocation IANA will do a provisio=
nal allocation. Thus I will *not* do that until we have resolved this issue=
 or you will get 0x8000 and be unhappy.

But early allocation at this point is a waste of effort.

Please simply add to the I-D "IANA is requested to allocate the value 32769=
."
Then we can all go ahead quickly and get the right results.

Cheers,
Adrian

PS.  On a separate rant! Picking a value at random during implementation an=
d deploying it is crazy behavior likely to get you in a real mess when some=
 other implementer picks the same value for a different feature. We have a =
registry for a reason. Please don't break the Internet by ignoring the proc=
ess, but get into the habit of using RFC 7120 for early allocation when app=
ropriate (not after the
fact!)


From nobody Thu Jul 31 11:41:45 2014
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From: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
To: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
Thread-Index: AQHPcL43MdQKFwuY10i9fAzq1cK1Rpu5z3cA///lHDCAAYYJgIAABRSAgAAGQoCAAAXQgIAABKiA
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 18:41:30 +0000
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References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <001201cface4$33eaf1b0$9bc0d510$@olddog.co.uk> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F63A@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <003e01cface9$d1783ff0$7468bfd0$@olddog.co.uk> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F68A@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
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Sure,

I will update the draft to 09 requesting the value and re-submit today.

Thanks,

Sami
On Jul 31, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Shah, Himanshu wrote:

> Thanks Adrian -
>=20
> Request to Authors (Sami/Siva/others) -
>=20
> Can you please add the suggested text (below) in the draft in order to ob=
tain the 0x8001 value from the IANA?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Himanshu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:04 PM
> To: Shah, Himanshu; 'Sami Boutros (sboutros)'
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv.all@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-07.txt
>=20
>> By no means I was wondering about the delay in review process.
>> Sorry if it came off that way.
>=20
> OK. Sorry if I'm grumpy. Sitting in the departure lounge at Rio airport p=
utting up with stupid people being too loud!
>=20
> Wrt IANA...
> There is nothing allocated so far from 32768-49161 so IANA (left to their=
 own
> devices) would allocate 32768 (which I think is 0x8000).
> Thus, you need to do something if you want 0x8001.
>=20
> As soon as I move this document to early allocation IANA will do a provis=
ional allocation. Thus I will *not* do that until we have resolved this iss=
ue or you will get 0x8000 and be unhappy.
>=20
> But early allocation at this point is a waste of effort.
>=20
> Please simply add to the I-D "IANA is requested to allocate the value 327=
69."
> Then we can all go ahead quickly and get the right results.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>=20
> PS.  On a separate rant! Picking a value at random during implementation =
and deploying it is crazy behavior likely to get you in a real mess when so=
me other implementer picks the same value for a different feature. We have =
a registry for a reason. Please don't break the Internet by ignoring the pr=
ocess, but get into the habit of using RFC 7120 for early allocation when a=
ppropriate (not after the
> fact!)
>=20


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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org" <draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
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Hi Xiaohu,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 9:40 PM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Lizhenbin; draft-li-mpls-global-label-
> usecases@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
>=20
> > 2. Service Chaining
> >
> > Why not let SFC folks to do their work, which SFC will then work on
> > the MPLS data plane without any changes to the MPLS data plane nor
> > architecture, certainly doesn't require any "global label" as this use
> > case is describing. Unless the SFC WG require the "global label"
> > (which it doesn't) or the MPLS WG is re-chartered to pick up creation
> > of a tangent SFC solution specifically for MPLS, I don't think this use=
 case is
> valid.
> > [Robin] SFC WG truly works on some new header for service functions.
> > We need to work out the when MPLS dataplane applied, what the possible
> > problem and the solution. I think MPLS has been widely deployed in the
> > existing network and SFC is the possible useful use case in MPLS
> > network which should be taken into account in the MPLS world. MPLS
> > global label is one of the possible solutions. This does not preclude o=
ther
> solutions.
>=20
> [NOBO] SFC is data plane agnostic. When SFC runs on MPLS data plane,
> there is no need to use global labels to describe service functions.
>=20
> Hi Nobo,
>=20
> It's fine that SFC is data plane agnostic. In the MPLS-SPRING-based SFC
> approach (http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-spring-
> 5.pdf) where the SFC-specific header is implemented in the form of an
> MPLS label stack, the SFC-encapsulated packet (i.e., the MPLS packet) cou=
ld
> still be transported between service nodes over any transport such as MPL=
S,
> IP (e.g., MPLS-over-UDP or MPLS-over-GRE) or even Ethernet. To some
> extent, the MPLS-SPRING-based SFC approach is data plane agnostic as well=
.
>=20
> As had been mentioned in the above PDF, if it's the SFP information that =
is
> encoded in the MPLS label stack, there is no need for global labels. Howe=
ver,
> provided that some operators did want to encode the SFC information,
> rather than the SFP information in the MPLS label stack, the only feasibl=
e
> way to realize such goal is to use global labels. Here the global labels =
just
> need to be unique within the SFC-enabled domain, in other words, they are
> domain-wide unique labels. Just like the global label usage proposed in t=
he
> segment routing mechanism, it only requires that a common label block,
> referred to as SF Label Block (SFLB) is reserved by all service nodes and
> Classifiers for SF SIDs. The domain-wide unique label for a given SF woul=
d
> be automatically determined by adding the SF ID to the first label value =
of
> the above SFLB.

You are creating a framework document based on a use case document that inc=
ludes use cases from another use case document that is still an individual =
document. I understand the diff between SFC vs. SFs on SR and complications=
 of NSH on the latter, but the way you are claiming this as a use case seem=
s premature. Let the SFC folks do their work. Let the SPRING folks do their=
 work. Let's focus our energy into helping to progress the two. If either o=
f those spin off real inter-WG requirements, then we probably won't even ne=
ed separate use case documents to start discussing solutions to address tho=
se requirements. In other words, let's not take use cases w/o WG consensus =
to drive additional use cases to drive solutions.

Thanks!

-Nobo
=20
>=20
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu


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From: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
To: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Request for Early allocation from LSP Parameters TLVs Registry for draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv
Thread-Index: AQHPrR6bGn0bFnUfZ02B+UUe+jKiXw==
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 00:21:57 +0000
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References: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE25D996541@SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com> <E48E70B3-73B1-4B68-AE76-2B31EF6B959B@cisco.com> <2120028D-672D-423E-ADE1-CB61F4DFFB84@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F1C4@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <001201cface4$33eaf1b0$9bc0d510$@olddog.co.uk> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B76F4F63A@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <003e01cface9$d1783ff0$7468bfd0$@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [mpls] Request for Early allocation from LSP Parameters TLVs Registry for draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv
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Hi,

IANA is requested to assign TLV type value to the following TLV from the "M=
ultiprotocol Label Switching Architecture (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs=
) Parameters - TLVs" registry, "TLVs and sub-TLVs" sub-registry.

The value requested is 32769.

Thanks,

Sami=


From nobody Thu Jul 31 18:38:02 2014
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org" <draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
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Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 01:37:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 7:33 AM
> To: Xuxiaohu; Lizhenbin; draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases@tools.ietf.o=
rg
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
>=20
> Hi Xiaohu,
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 9:40 PM
> > To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Lizhenbin; draft-li-mpls-global-label-
> > usecases@tools.ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: Comments on draft-li-mpls-global-label-usecases
> >
> > > 2. Service Chaining
> > >
> > > Why not let SFC folks to do their work, which SFC will then work on
> > > the MPLS data plane without any changes to the MPLS data plane nor
> > > architecture, certainly doesn't require any "global label" as this
> > > use case is describing. Unless the SFC WG require the "global label"
> > > (which it doesn't) or the MPLS WG is re-chartered to pick up
> > > creation of a tangent SFC solution specifically for MPLS, I don't
> > > think this use case is
> > valid.
> > > [Robin] SFC WG truly works on some new header for service functions.
> > > We need to work out the when MPLS dataplane applied, what the
> > > possible problem and the solution. I think MPLS has been widely
> > > deployed in the existing network and SFC is the possible useful use
> > > case in MPLS network which should be taken into account in the MPLS
> > > world. MPLS global label is one of the possible solutions. This does
> > > not preclude other
> > solutions.
> >
> > [NOBO] SFC is data plane agnostic. When SFC runs on MPLS data plane,
> > there is no need to use global labels to describe service functions.
> >
> > Hi Nobo,
> >
> > It's fine that SFC is data plane agnostic. In the MPLS-SPRING-based
> > SFC approach
> > (http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-spring-
> > 5.pdf) where the SFC-specific header is implemented in the form of an
> > MPLS label stack, the SFC-encapsulated packet (i.e., the MPLS packet)
> > could still be transported between service nodes over any transport
> > such as MPLS, IP (e.g., MPLS-over-UDP or MPLS-over-GRE) or even
> > Ethernet. To some extent, the MPLS-SPRING-based SFC approach is data pl=
ane
> agnostic as well.
> >
> > As had been mentioned in the above PDF, if it's the SFP information
> > that is encoded in the MPLS label stack, there is no need for global
> > labels. However, provided that some operators did want to encode the
> > SFC information, rather than the SFP information in the MPLS label
> > stack, the only feasible way to realize such goal is to use global
> > labels. Here the global labels just need to be unique within the
> > SFC-enabled domain, in other words, they are domain-wide unique
> > labels. Just like the global label usage proposed in the segment
> > routing mechanism, it only requires that a common label block,
> > referred to as SF Label Block (SFLB) is reserved by all service nodes
> > and Classifiers for SF SIDs. The domain-wide unique label for a given
> > SF would be automatically determined by adding the SF ID to the first l=
abel
> value of the above SFLB.
>=20
> You are creating a framework document based on a use case document that
> includes use cases from another use case document that is still an indivi=
dual
> document. I understand the diff between SFC vs. SFs on SR and complicatio=
ns of
> NSH on the latter, but the way you are claiming this as a use case seems
> premature. Let the SFC folks do their work. Let the SPRING folks do their=
 work.
> Let's focus our energy into helping to progress the two. If either of tho=
se spin off
> real inter-WG requirements, then we probably won't even need separate use
> case documents to start discussing solutions to address those requirement=
s. In
> other words, let's not take use cases w/o WG consensus to drive additiona=
l use
> cases to drive solutions.

Hi Nobo,

I'm not creating a framework doc. I'm just expressing a different opinion f=
rom your argument as below:

> > [NOBO] SFC is data plane agnostic. When SFC runs on MPLS data plane,
> > there is no need to use global labels to describe service functions.

That is: even when SFC runs on MPLS data plane, it's still feasible to use =
the MPLS label stack to describe the SFP or the SFC information. Furthermor=
e, in the latter case (i.e., encoding SFC information in the label stack), =
using global labels (i.e., domain-wide unique label) to indicate SFs is the=
 only choice. Otherwise, the SFF (contained in the service node device) may=
 need to swap the whole label stack. BTW, global labels (i.e., domain-wide =
unique label) just need to be processed by classifiers and service nodes. T=
he underlay could be IP networks (e.g., using MPLS-in-UDP). It doesn't requ=
ire any change to the existing data plane. In other words, it's just a netw=
ork configuration issue. Hence I really don't understand why you and some o=
ther guys are so strongly opposing the usage of global labels.=20

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> Thanks!
>=20
> -Nobo
>=20
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Xiaohu

