From nobody Sat Nov 1 09:01:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB911A894A for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 09:01:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cWyLMgyC_kt2 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 09:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 004621A892A for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f173.google.com with SMTP id n3so3439366wiv.0 for ; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 09:01:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8qFqP0x94fIeRzJNMbj8H1PrbL+TKW1YGBA6sfv943s=; b=raw7VEiReBJt8DytVcka6H/9uK8/upT0dVquvzoD9GVlElpyOFAKDpBSHix97Fdrx3 Gf7Wg4eUdkkUSuMd7U44wk+l/OUU/ojoweeFA7HSOiy4yhen+Ha044nm3SlL9aqSZ9Kn BZnkeE87gxdDexTMfKlgkSfLsngT5RG9DBFYRlWAraVTLH4e9Xzzky3OQgEN8dgMPBaC 04JSz0JNaDD37AmURfKNXJ6QRUrwIFgdrsbKsdoFaaB1oUySsI4HU3R571EEVYDWkBbK D39IikgVkLfocSpe6LrFoJqjhVCM8kJnF3FKOcMUDXTBPUN5w9bf2ydkZgf2z6HcD9Ff yybQ== X-Received: by 10.194.239.196 with SMTP id vu4mr10130821wjc.4.1414857687646; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 09:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f6sm2346247wix.5.2014.11.01.09.01.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Nov 2014 09:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 17:01:25 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/nqpB7bBWPp7FwgZuoRp57pZqbiU Subject: Re: [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 16:01:31 -0000 Hello Kireeti, I also did a careful reading of this draft. I agree with Greg that the failure of a node is not covered. I also notice that you did not cover that a second failure (link/node) that splits the ring in two islands. In this case the protection in effect in each of the islands should be maintained. You may have the same issue as detected by Greg for a single node failure. I also notice that during the process of changing DS to US at each node MPLS packets may get lost or get out of order. Is my interpretation correct? Cheers, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Sat Nov 1 20:40:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89491A6F3F for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:39:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_SPICE=2.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbzGGXo2pzIm for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81F1A1A6F52 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:39:55 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-b3-54554cf11cca Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CA.0C.25146.1FC45545; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 22:13:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 23:39:53 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHP9XRJPVENGOFy4UGgyANGHL3QUZxMrWbw Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 03:39:52 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B877A1F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891Ceusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO5Hn9AQg9WXrCzW7J/EaHFr6UpW ByaPnbPusnssWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugStj4atpLAUNTxgr5iy5ydrA2HCPsYuRk0NC wERixa52FghbTOLCvfVsILaQwBFGiZeL1LsYuYDsZYwSy94tBWtgEzCSeLGxhx3EFhEwlHi5 /y5QnIODWUBZ4tRdGZCwsECgxIEnd1khSoIkdixYwARhG0nM7JoHtotFQEXiQttaMJtXwFfi Yv87Rohd/xglHv57DDafU8BW4t2+H2BFjEDHfT+1BmwQs4C4xK0n85kgjhaQWLLnPDOELSrx 8vE/VghbSWLO62vMEPX5EjtnTYBaJihxcuYTlgmMorOQjJqFpGwWkrJZYK9pSqzfpQ9Roigx pfshO4StIdE6Zy47svgCRvZVjBylxalluelGhpsYgXF1TILNcQfjgk+WhxgFOBiVeHgLREJC hFgTy4orcw8xSnOwKInzalbPCxYSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYovKs1JLT7EyMTBKdXAuHT9v3bvZMeZ T6+VdDqybI+M+bMlJ27Wp5eOxzTj7vWp/v1oFnhmkUB5odYzyS1zsstm89aFRyj/1k4s38nq Gy3ff2SVxIS3bw5dP3Ev5MAU6bZZyfs3P902/4NJXJ7ZY8lMTjaDS2tD36XzuORkZdxSEXty 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x6hGZqP9u5Sx for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0707.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::707]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EDAC1A6FF1 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DB4PR03MB395.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.242.231.16) by DB4PR03MB0959.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.161.248.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.9; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:02:18 +0000 Received: from DB4PR03MB395.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.242.231.16]) by DB4PR03MB395.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.242.231.16]) with mapi id 15.01.0006.000; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:02:18 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: Gregory Mirsky , Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHP9XRiSwnYjxkox0C0Upb5bqDF/5xMsmkAgAArDtk= Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:02:18 +0000 Message-ID: <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B877A1F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> , <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [5.153.9.206] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB4PR03MB0959; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-forefront-prvs: 03838E948C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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Hauser , Ron Sdayoor Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 07:02:46 -0000 --_000_141491173212030948ecitelecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 4oCL4oCLR3JlZywgS2lyZWV0aSBhbmQgYWxsLA0KDQpBIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBnZW5lcmFsIGNvbW1l bnRzIGlmIHlvdSBkbyBub3QgbWluZC4NCg0KDQogIDEuICBGYXN0IGhhbmRsaW5nIG9mIG5vZGUg ZmFpbHVyZXMgaXMgdXN1YWxseSBtdWNoIG1vcmUgY29tcGxpY2F0ZWQgdGhhbiBmYXN0IGhhbmRs aW5nIGxpbmsgZmFpbHVyZXMsIHByb2JhYmx5IGJlY2F1c2UgaXQgaXMgbm90IHRyaXZpYWwgZm9y IHRoZSBub2RlcyBhZGphY2VudCB0byB0aGUgZmFpbHVyZSB0byBkaXN0aW5ndWlzaCBiZXR3ZWVu IHRoZSB0d28uDQogIDIuICBSaW5nIHRvcG9sb2dpZXMgYXJlIHNwZWNpYWwgbm90IGp1c3QgYmVj YXVzZSB0aGV5IGFyZSB0aGUgc2ltcGxlc3QgdG9wb2xvZ2llcyBwcm92aWRpbmcgc29tZSBsZXZl 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--_000_141491173212030948ecitelecom_-- From nobody Sun Nov 2 05:27:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67B71A8796 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 05:27:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XyEiO9GkM4gx for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 05:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x22e.google.com (mail-wg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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[80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w5sm3014041wif.18.2014.11.02.05.27.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 02 Nov 2014 05:27:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54563137.5040500@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 14:27:19 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B877A1F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> , <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> In-Reply-To: <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fhOLoVcpCHfBNdkIb7bYAWT7y6w Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:27:25 -0000 Hello Sasha, You reply: > A couple of general comments if you do not mind. Thank you for your valuable comments. See in-line [HH] for some answers. > 1. Fast handling of node failures is usually much more complicated than > fast handling link failures, probably because it is not trivial for > the nodes adjacent to the failure to distinguish between the two. [HH] if a node fails I expect that the links to the adjacent nodes fail too. If this protocol can handle two link failures, there is no need to distinguish between link and node failure. > 2. Ring topologies are special not just because they are the simplest > topologies providing some level of resilience, but also because > distinguishing between link and node failures is relatively simple > even if it involves signaling. BLSR (or its ITU-T equivalent > MSP-Ring) uses this ability, and it has been inherited by the > MPLS-TP mechanisms for ring protection. To me this means that > enhancing Kireeti's original proposal with some signaling that would > effectively protect against node failure should not be complicated. [HH] (the correct ITU-T term is MS-SPRing), see my comment regarding node failure above. MS-SPRing signals only link failures. The APS protocol covers the node failure. > 3. I am not sure we need a new extended reserved label for this > signaling. Existing mechanisms for trapping the labeled packets > (GAL, TTL expiration) should suffice IMO. [HH] a new extended label will also increase the size of every packet that is ring protected. Note that there will also be unprotected traffic on the ring. > 4. Protection against a double failure that results in a ring being > partitioned in two disjoint islands is IMO of less interest, not in > the least because some traffic would not be restored in any case. [HH] the island could be a single node, see my comment under 1. Traffic that was already switched due to the first failure should not be switched again due to the second failure, in the current draft I cannot find how that is addressed. > 5. Last but not least, I think that Greg has hit an important weak > point of all ring topologies when he has mentioned that nodes can be > inserted into/removed from the ring. Such an operation typically > requires renumbering of the nodes forming a ring. [HH] IMHO renumbering is not required, the ring maps in each node have to be updated with the new adjacency of the nodes. > In SONET/SDH operations require intervention of the network > management system, and I suspect that this is also true for > MPLS-TP rings. Identifying a solution for node insertion/removal > that does not depend on management intervention and does not create > additional traffic hits (beyond one that has been caused > by disconnection of fibers required for node insertion/removal) > looks like an important and challenging problem to me. If it could > be solved, IMO this would give a real advantage to Kireeti's proposal. [HH] adding/deleting a node from a ring should be performed only when there are no faults on the ring, the management has to update the ring-maps in each ring node. MS-SPRing uses a forced switch to move the traffic away from the link that is opened to insert a new node or away from the node that is removed. After the ring-maps are updated, the forced switch is cleared. The activation and clearing of the forced switch will have minimal hits on the traffic. Best regards, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Sun Nov 2 05:52:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E616E1A87A9 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 05:52:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QvuVih56vXfh for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 05:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0713.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::713]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No 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ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL21wbHMNCg== From nobody Sun Nov 2 09:36:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1668A1ABD39 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 09:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fYzEsn23Vz59 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 09:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-host.seacom.mu (ge-0.ln-01-jnb.za.seacomnet.com [41.87.104.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F15C61A90AE for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 09:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=the-host.localnet) by the-host.seacom.mu with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Xkz45-0007F7-Pm; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 19:35:45 +0200 From: Mark Tinka Organization: SEACOM To: mpls@ietf.org Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:35:44 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.6 (Linux/2.6.37.6-24-desktop; KDE/4.6.0; i686; ; ) References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> In-Reply-To: <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2592101.50TFdJWOXG"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201411021935.44719.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/2Pb2kB6iO9tuLkSWGIjRMsYUPXI Cc: Idan Kaspit , Yosef Hauser , Ron Sdayoor Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: mark.tinka@seacom.mu List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 17:36:26 -0000 --nextPart2592101.50TFdJWOXG Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, November 02, 2014 09:02:18 AM Alexander=20 Vainshtein wrote: > 5. Last but not least, I > think that Greg has hit an important weak point of all > ring topologies when he has mentioned that nodes can be > inserted into/removed from the ring. Such an operation > typically requires renumbering of the nodes forming a > ring. In SONET/DH operations require intervention of the > network management system, and I suspect that this is > also true for MPLS-TP rings. Identifying a solution for > node insertion/removal that does not depend on > management intervention and does not create additional > traffic hits (beyond one that has been caused by > disconnection of fibers required for node > insertion/removal) looks like an important and > challenging problem to me. If it could be solved, IMO > this would give a real advantage to Kireeti's proposal. I'm aware of active work in this regard taking place at one=20 of the vendors. I hope any success in this area will be open standard. Mark. --nextPart2592101.50TFdJWOXG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAABAgAGBQJUVmtwAAoJEGcZuYTeKm+Gi7YQAJItYsb8BFKp+NuvAzCf5fiA mIKpD5Y1sBa0C+2Aalw5/u4dDQInJZ/cNHdChvr2mNbjHuTEw5CwsABckHYQOe6j fnY7HOwO86A5dJ1Eb9g6xRXZ8DjGRiRRcXgrY5JcGG815Ds9j43cqoGCjQK4VUfs EyMbeGg7mErvPuqobRe6XASAXCDIU3OjI14e0a2oMr6JMU8klYA7UoKk3fGMwuR9 gDBjnO5lScMlUON95IvuOuhVN3OhVVVF2AuMSiWOUHSLB7lZ1tCdSMeWL2QZj+ZB qpDtoCaoahOcVIDB4eYZ2ra4Ha6OD4drhRfRY0IbAm8bD8S1qHewibnQKVKht7w2 fDRAdrk12rrsOahXO7VRA1blRg9r9hpQtqCSA8+L6ox2ngXhu5wU+sEbeiK82Sr+ EY6Ryrk6ob4Fuk45Pj+iZumX4MIowpLFEK3f1XwCj6OoUtXvoOHkUBLJeYtcZx0k +3hWUnVi84/MZVqhEQf0q9yAUCCr7xSPSZpinE0psWRPt2WdlZo2XrXvIXOUJHZF xq8QBD1DPW2tINBAEgvakpWKJjgejwdgfOKLln2A+VfSguB1LAgDo3S/Cj7fLSJN D+7EuhwIwlW8NcO6NrFYW9i65RSTkAb6utVrWrOZIGm+JLDWRtKNDuOKQoJDLOeQ yiGcgBhfyhZYBdsAmteh =rhNl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2592101.50TFdJWOXG-- From nobody Sun Nov 2 13:47:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1416E1ACE10 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 13:47:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ymNBamkp63lU for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 13:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-x22c.google.com (mail-qc0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBB31A0410 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 13:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id i17so8428655qcy.3 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:47:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PlCH+mBDfa3XZbYRUSI3UymHOMxXPgIR6FUwTXLsVmg=; b=DciEBIw7Y4HeMOtPfrh1M3RmfNDs3nr/O1jieSwX3P94QREpb4UG4QyFnckdX8gd5Y PwNCq9KUIRoD1tP5xNK9MmyNwXed2t9mo6nPJphU2NHmZAQxHDxRc+16IVEig1pfFe2q TjoA/m7Xm8W8qhq9gScuFzGEsmYB5aSJ3D1TLLDeuDtxFl9iFsWj87BZkr4fIwrnvjpC ewDM4czjOQncdjm4vhi2yIRv1L+9kdXezMJkgS+y+9gyd00MGuIbNu989ypm6p0JsxGY b+LyL+Ss0BKIcXz/Ukw4XE3/LD9g+2VFXNUquB837bFCeQ1n+jnBB+ZoT1QnnEXZwdwJ 5F9Q== X-Received: by 10.140.18.204 with SMTP id 70mr55034257qgf.74.1414964871937; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:47:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.125] (68-184-84-72.dhcp.smyr.ga.charter.com. [68.184.84.72]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id q90sm15239658qgd.4.2014.11.02.13.47.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:47:51 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/15.3.0.141024 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 16:47:50 -0500 From: Phil Bedard To: , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> <201411021935.44719.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> In-Reply-To: <201411021935.44719.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/hifKReylpvyrPw-IRD2Wuus2kDQ Cc: Yosef Hauser , Idan Kaspit , Ron Sdayoor Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 21:47:54 -0000 On 11/2/14, 5:35 PM, "Mark Tinka" wrote: >On Sunday, November 02, 2014 09:02:18 AM Alexander >Vainshtein wrote: > >> 5. Last but not least, I >> think that Greg has hit an important weak point of all >> ring topologies when he has mentioned that nodes can be >> inserted into/removed from the ring. Such an operation >> typically requires renumbering of the nodes forming a >> ring. In SONET/DH operations require intervention of the >> network management system, and I suspect that this is >> also true for MPLS-TP rings. Identifying a solution for >> node insertion/removal that does not depend on >> management intervention and does not create additional >> traffic hits (beyond one that has been caused by >> disconnection of fibers required for node >> insertion/removal) looks like an important and >> challenging problem to me. If it could be solved, IMO >> this would give a real advantage to Kireeti's proposal. > >I'm aware of active work in this regard taking place at one >of the vendors. > >I hope any success in this area will be open standard. > >Mark. There is some difficulty because address assignment happens at a layer below protocols like LDP/RSVP. One solution is to use unnumbered interfaces which has been used for some time in various protocols but it can add some operational difficulties, at least perceived. Never caught on for various reasons. The other is use a protocol below IP to negotiate IP addresses. If we are thinking of the same vendor they use proprietary extensions to LLDP (802.3ab) to negotiate the owner of the link and the non-owner. The non-owner is assigned an IP address one lower than the owner, which works for either a /30 or a /31. What I'd rather see is have all this working over IPv6 where you simply use link-local addresses which offer a dynamic mechanism for address assignment. As for the draft I do see some benefit in it as we deploy MPLS access rings. They require a lot of state in the rings today which is completely unnecessary including link detours or FRR paths. Phil From nobody Sun Nov 2 19:42:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96CF1A6F14 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:42:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UhKiRfOrFfxq for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0128.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.128]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5FB71A6F0D for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO2PR05MB633.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.199.12) by CO2PR05MB569.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.197.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:42:41 +0000 Received: from CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.199.24) by CO2PR05MB633.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.199.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:42:40 +0000 Received: from CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.199.24]) by CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.199.24]) with mapi id 15.01.0006.000; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:42:40 +0000 From: Ross Callon To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll for draft-chen-mpls-source-label Thread-Index: AQHP9LNvUHTlTD+t4UO4D0v/LhhnBZxJ5C2AgAAvZ8CAAAUfAIAANUXQgAP2xpA= Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: <092fb8e431144b4ebd23d219f99f5309@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR05MB633;UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-forefront-prvs: 0384275935 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(164054003)(377454003)(51444003)(189002)(13464003)(2656002)(101416001)(50986999)(87936001)(19580395003)(76576001)(99396003)(19580405001)(92566001)(120916001)(86362001)(46102003)(40100003)(122556002)(64706001)(20776003)(31966008)(62966003)(77156002)(66066001)(54356999)(21056001)(4396001)(110136001)(33646002)(2501002)(99286002)(95666004)(2351001)(106116001)(107046002)(97736003)(106356001)(230783001)(105586002)(108616004)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO2PR05MB633; H:CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR05MB569; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/zeUuBtLRDWRO-gpcVMdNc85ObqY Cc: "draft-chen-mpls-source-label@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll for draft-chen-mpls-source-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:42:46 -0000 Working group: There has been an extensive discussion, particularly over the past couple o= f weeks, on the source label draft, and whether source labels are an approp= riate and needed update to the MPLS architecture. It is clear that at the c= urrent time there is no consensus to consider draft-chen-mpls-source-label = for adoption as an MPLS WG draft. We welcome continued discussion of requirements and use cases, as well as m= ethods to satisfy these requirements. Thanks, Ross (as MPLS WG co-chair) -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ross Callon Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:25 PM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: draft-chen-mpls-source-label@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll for draft-chen-mpls-source-label MPLS working group; There have been a number of comments, both public and private, about whethe= r or not source labels are needed and/or worth the cost of implementing thi= s approach. It is clear that we need a discussion in public on the MPLS ema= il list of this issue. In principle this discussion could occur either befo= re or as part of the call for adoption. However, due to the strong interest= of several folks to focus on this issue, and the possibility that the outc= ome of this discussion might motivate changes to the document, I think that= we should have this discussion prior to the call for adoption. I would like to therefore encourage MPLS participants to reply to Stewart's= email (and the few replies that have already occurred) and to continue thi= s discussion. The requirements and use cases for source labels, whether sou= rce labels are needed, what the cost of implementation would be, and altern= atives to satisfy the same use cases, are all explicitly topics that should= be considered (as well as any other issues that people feel is important i= n determining whether the MPLS WG should work on source labels). In the hope of coming to a timely consensus, I would encourage people who h= ave opinions on this issue to respond within two weeks (by Friday October 3= 1). Thanks, Ross From nobody Sun Nov 2 22:42:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6225F1A1A48 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:42:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.023 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.023 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_SPICE=2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kjZJTT7wzZmp for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x22a.google.com (mail-pd0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E91C51A1A42 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:42:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f170.google.com with SMTP id z10so10954504pdj.15 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 22:42:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=woE6gcr0shEPOTZnIS2+jx6HkNgtu+5sfyp/8qNs9pA=; b=NJSlsVhNKE1ycnWBdf64iSI5p/j3Ck761GOO+7S6htjGMneGIOjB/JJABBynriaE9S qo/G2KzLM0IJqrEXVkKTLJq5k57cxpgLvgKqHnbRTfyTR9rZtMwOwizwfd55W6NIeEEm X1MREdHLHq2pb1hdcE5YjgKtwIRWkNw3yNNgNVX6PZiszDuqQMui0bbFkfjGtm1a0/1D Pluj+3ZvChzEYjXm8S70ZJavIyDx5iYlRKFZ/FAlF2ocluYVX5FDkkfojwV+7qZS5ZM0 f/FYiVxCGxyOM1/RoFTn64iWnUYl80OoSIPDTGS+DUs+2bUJ3H8cwI3vcyniZSRf9YEI lIFw== X-Received: by 10.70.64.133 with SMTP id o5mr7489279pds.105.1414996952512; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 22:42:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sriganeshkini@gmail.com Received: by 10.70.102.14 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:42:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B877A1F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1414911732120.30948@ecitele.com> From: Sriganesh Kini Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:42:02 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: LrZC8dc9BqL6wNPrF36CFKB0ypY Message-ID: To: Alexander Vainshtein Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158c8dab680c20506eea623 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/QmgAfcelGqJqlJ_CKgvgLnjUAj8 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Idan Kaspit , Yosef Hauser , Ron Sdayoor Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 06:42:36 -0000 --089e0158c8dab680c20506eea623 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Would like to point to a proposal several years ago, that sent a notification to the upstream nodes (to remove the wraparound traffic). http://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kini-mpls-ring-frr-facility-backup-02.= txt http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kini-mpls-fast-lsp-alert-02 In order to convey the notification rapidly, signaling protocols were not used. A combination of TTL expiry and the G-Ach was used (GAL TTL was used to prevent looping of packets). It also used a BFD session to convey whether the PLR has done the protection switch so that the upstream nodes can do the switchover of the traffic and remove the wraparound. There may be better alternatives than using BFD. Sri On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Alexander Vainshtein < Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote: > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BGreg, Kireeti and all, > > A couple of general comments if you do not mind. > > > > 1. Fast handling of node failures is usually much more complicated > than fast handling link failures, probably because it is not trivial f= or > the nodes adjacent to the failure to distinguish between the two. > 2. Ring topologies are special not just because they are the simplest > topologies providing some level of resilience, but also because > distinguishing between link and node failures is relatively simple eve= n if > it involves signaling. BLSR (or its ITU-T equivalent MSP-Ring) uses t= his > ability, and it has been inherited by the MPLS-TP mechanisms for ring > protection. To me this means that enhancing Kireeti's original proposa= l > with some signaling that would effectively protect against node failur= e > should not be complicated. > 3. I am not sure we need a new extended reserved label for this > signaling. Existing mechanisms for trapping the labeled packets (GAL, = TTL > expiration) should suffice IMO. > 4. Protection against a double failure that results in a ring being > partitioned in two disjoint islands is IMO of less interest, not in th= e > least because some traffic would not be restored in any case. > 5. Last but not least, I think that Greg has hit an important weak > point of all ring topologies when he has mentioned that nodes can be > inserted into/removed from the ring. Such an operation typically requi= res > renumbering of the nodes forming a ring. In SONET/DH operations > require intervention of the network management system, and I suspect t= hat > this is also true for MPLS-TP rings. Identifying a solution for node > insertion/removal that does not depend on management intervention and = does > not create additional traffic hits (beyond one that has been caused > by disconnection of fibers required for node insertion/removal) looks = like > an important and challenging problem to me. If it could be solved, IMO= this > would give a real advantage to Kireeti's proposal. > > > My 2c, > > Sasha > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* mpls on behalf of Gregory Mirsky < > gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 2, 2014 5:39 AM > *To:* Kireeti Kompella > *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for > draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > > > Hi Kireeti, > > thank you for your kind consideration, much appreciated. > > Of course, TTL will break the loop and setting it to precise value may be > one solution. But, as Huub pointed, if ring experienced double failure lo= op > still exist though less severe. And since nodes may be added and removed > from the ring dynamically every node must be aware of number of nodes in > that ring. > > Thus I personally prefer option #3, (Extended) Special Purpose Label (tha= t > we can name later). The possible drawback, as with any new (E)SPL cases, = is > that it becomes new capability that now must be advertised as such. > > But I agree, let=E2=80=99s list all three options as these are sound tech= nical > solutions to the realistic scenario and any of TTL based may be used by > itself or in combination with (E)SPL. (E)SPL may be used only if ring is > homogeneous in regard to this capability. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > *From:* Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 6:37 PM > *To:* Gregory Mirsky > *Cc:* Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for > draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > On Oct 30, 2014, at 16:21 , Gregory Mirsky > wrote: > > > > Hi Kireeti, > > I think that proposed in this document protection method creates some > unpleasant scenario if failure is of a node, not a link. If I use the > scenario presented in Section 3.6 but assume that the failure is not of t= he > link between R_j and R_j+1 but of the node Rj+1. Thus, as R_j switches to > US direction, the R_j+2 will switch to DS. And until notifications from R= _j > and R_j+2 reach R_j+2 and R_j respectively we have routing loop on RL_j+1 > LSP. > > > > I appreciate your careful reading! Note of course that since there is a > TTL, this is a finite loop (not saying it isn=E2=80=99t bad, but that thi= s has the > germ of the solution.) > > > > I have three solutions for this problem. I didn=E2=80=99t put them in the= first > version of the draft; I may eventually document all (and others, as the W= G > chimes in), but meanwhile this discussion is perfect. > > > > My preferred solution is to always insert packets on a ring LSP with TTL = =3D > 2N-1 if the ring has N nodes. This is enough for the worst case =E2=80= =94 node R_j > sends a packet on RL_j+1 the =E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D way around, only to e= ncounter a failure > at node R_j+2, and come all the way back to R_j, then R_j+1. > > > > Another solution is that an ingress node sets the TTL as usual, but a PLR > sets the TTL to the smaller of the current TTL-1 and the minimum TTL > required to reach the egress. So, in the above example, R_j would set > TTL as usual, but R_j+2, on detecting a failure, would set TTL =3D N-1 an= d > send it the other way. In this case, when the packet gets back to R_j, i= t > should not in turn reset the TTL to N-1. Of course, both of the above ca= n > be combined. > > > > Finally, a PLR (R_j+2) can push a special purpose label to indicate that > this is a failure path, then push the label to go the other way. If the > packet goes back to R_j, before R_j sends it the other way, it sees that > the label below the top of stack is this failure label, and drops the > packet rather than cycle it back around the ring. > > > > If my assumptions are correct, then notification mechanism MUST be > reliable or be backed up by IGP signaling. In any case, the loop may > persist for quite a while and affect all services. > > > > Agreed, having a reliable notification mechanism is always a good thing. > > > > Comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated. > > > > Greg, since you worked out the problem, do you have any opinions on the > solutions above, or any of your own? > > > > Cheers, > > Kireeti. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Kireeti Kompella > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:41 AM > *To:* mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > This is a draft on making MPLS more efficient in ring networks. I have > come around to understanding that: > > a) rings are a special topology (there was a time that I didn't appreciat= e > that); > > b) MPLS is pretty inefficient in rings (that is/was quite obvious). > > > > This draft attempts to fix that, both by making protection much more > efficient, and by making configuration much easier. > > > > Your comments are highly welcome! > > > > Cheers, > > Kireeti. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > To: Kireeti Kompella > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Kireeti Kompella and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-kompella-mpls-rmr > Revision: 00 > Title: Resilient MPLS Rings > Document date: 2014-10-26 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 7 > URL: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr/ > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 > > > Abstract: > This document describes the use of the MPLS control and data planes > on ring topologies. It describes the special nature of rings, and > proceeds to show how MPLS can be effectively used in such topologies. > It describes how MPLS rings are configured, auto-discovered and > signaled, as well as how the data plane works. Companion documents > describe the details of discovery and signaling for specific > protocols. > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > -- > Kireeti > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > --089e0158c8dab680c20506eea623 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Would like to point to a propos= al several years ago, that sent a notification to the upstream nodes (to re= move the wraparound traffic).

In order to conve= y the notification rapidly, signaling protocols were not used.=C2=A0
<= div>A combination of TTL expiry and the G-Ach was used (GAL TTL was used to= prevent looping of packets). It also used a BFD session to convey whether = the PLR has done the protection switch so that the upstream nodes can do th= e switchover of the traffic and remove the wraparound. There may be better = alternatives than using BFD.

Sri


On Sun, Nov 2,= 2014 at 12:02 AM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshte= in@ecitele.com> wrote:

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BGreg, Kireeti and all,

A couple of general comments if you do not mind.


  1. Fast handling of node failures is=C2=A0usually much more complicated th= an fast handling link failures, probably because it is not trivial for the = nodes adjacent to the failure to distinguish between the two.=C2=A0
    2. Ring topologies are special not just because they are the simplest topolog= ies providing some level of resilience, but also because distinguishing bet= ween link and node failures is relatively simple even if it involves signal= ing.=C2=A0=C2=A0BLSR (or its ITU-T equivalent MSP-Ring) uses this ability, and it has been inherited by the MPLS-TP mech= anisms for ring protection. To me this means that enhancing Kireeti's o= riginal proposal with some signaling that would effectively protect against= node failure should not be complicated.
  2. I am not sure we need a ne= w extended reserved label for this signaling.=C2=A0Existing mechanisms for = trapping the labeled packets (GAL, TTL expiration) should suffice IMO.=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
  3. Protection against a double failure that results in= a ring being partitioned in two disjoint islands is IMO of less interest, = not in the least because some traffic would not be restored in any case.
  4. Last but not least, I think that Greg has hit an important weak po= int of all ring=C2=A0topologies when he has mentioned that nodes can be ins= erted into/removed from the ring.=C2=A0Such an operation typically requires= renumbering of the nodes forming a ring.=C2=A0In=C2=A0SONET/DH=C2=A0operat= ions require=C2=A0intervention of=C2=A0the network management system, and I sus= pect that this is also true for MPLS-TP=C2=A0rings.=C2=A0Identifying=C2=A0a= solution for node insertion/removal that=C2=A0does not depend on managemen= t intervention and=C2=A0does not=C2=A0create additional traffic hits (beyon= d one that has been caused by=C2=A0disconnection of fibers required for node= insertion/removal) looks like an important and=C2=A0challenging=C2=A0probl= em to me. If it could be solved, IMO this would=C2=A0give a real advantage = to Kireeti's proposal.=C2=A0=C2=A0


My 2c,

Sasha



From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.o= rg> on behalf of Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 5:39 AM
To: Kireeti Kompella
Cc: mpls@ietf.org=

Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls= -rmr-00.txt
=C2=A0

Hi Kireeti,

thank you for your k= ind consideration, much appreciated.

Of course, TTL will = break the loop and setting it to precise value may be one solution. But, as= Huub pointed, if ring experienced double failure loop still exist though less severe. And since nodes may be added and remo= ved from the ring dynamically every node must be aware of number of nodes i= n that ring.

Thus I personally pr= efer option #3, (Extended) Special Purpose Label (that we can name later). = The possible drawback, as with any new (E)SPL cases, is that it becomes new capability that now must be advertised as such.

But I agree, let=E2= =80=99s list all three options as these are sound technical solutions to th= e realistic scenario and any of TTL based may be used by itself or in combination with (E)SPL. (E)SPL may be used only if ring is h= omogeneous in regard to this capability.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Re= gards,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Greg

=C2=A0

From: Kireeti Komp= ella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 6:37 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls= -rmr-00.txt

=C2=A0

Hi Greg,

=C2=A0

On Oct 30, 2014, at 16:21 , Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@= ericsson.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Hi Kireeti,

I think that propose= d in this document protection method creates some unpleasant scenario if fa= ilure is of a node, not a link. If I use the scenario presented in Section 3.6 but assume that the failure is not of the link be= tween R_j and R_j+1 but of the node Rj+1. Thus, as R_j switches to US direc= tion, the R_j+2 will switch to DS. And until notifications from R_j and R_j= +2 reach R_j+2 and R_j respectively we have routing loop on RL_j+1 LSP.

=C2=A0

I appreciate your careful reading!=C2=A0 Note of cou= rse that since there is a TTL, this is a finite loop (not saying it isn=E2= =80=99t bad, but that this has the germ of the solution.)

=C2=A0

I have three solutions for this problem. I didn=E2= =80=99t put them in the first version of the draft; I may eventually docume= nt all (and others, as the WG chimes in), but meanwhile this discussion is = perfect.

=C2=A0

My preferred solution is to always insert packets on= a ring LSP with TTL =3D 2N-1 if the ring has N nodes.=C2=A0 This is enough= for the worst case =E2=80=94 node R_j sends a packet on RL_j+1 the =E2=80= =9Clong=E2=80=9D way around, only to encounter a failure at node R_j+2, and come all the way back to R_j, then R_j+1.

=C2=A0

Another solution is that an ingress node sets the TT= L as usual, but a PLR sets the TTL to the smaller of the current TTL-1 and = the minimum TTL required to reach the egress. =C2=A0 =C2=A0So, in the above= example, R_j would set TTL as usual, but R_j+2, on detecting a failure, would set TTL =3D N-1 and send it the other way.= =C2=A0 In this case, when the packet gets back to R_j, it should not in tur= n reset the TTL to N-1.=C2=A0 Of course, both of the above can be combined.=

=C2=A0

Finally, a PLR (R_j+2) can push a special purpose la= bel to indicate that this is a failure path, then push the label to go the = other way.=C2=A0 If the packet goes back to R_j, before R_j sends it the ot= her way, it sees that the label below the top of stack is this failure label, and drops the packet rather than cycle= it back around the ring.

=C2=A0

If my assumptions ar= e correct, then notification mechanism MUST be reliable or be backed up by = IGP signaling. In any case, the loop may persist for quite a while and affect all services.

=C2=A0

Agreed, having a reliable notification mechanism is = always a good thing.



Comments, questions = are always welcome and greatly appreciated.

=C2=A0

Greg, since you worked out the problem, do you have = any opinions on the solutions above, or any of your own?

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Kireeti.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Greg

=C2=A0

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Kireeti Kompella
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:41 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org=
Subject: [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpl= s-rmr-00.txt

=C2=A0

Hi Folks,

=C2=A0

This is a draft on making MPLS more efficient in rin= g networks.=C2=A0 I have come around to understanding that:

a) rings are a special topology (there was a time th= at I didn't appreciate that);

b) MPLS is pretty inefficient in rings (that is/was = quite obvious).

=C2=A0

This draft attempts to fix that, both by making prot= ection much more efficient, and by making configuration much easier.

=C2=A0

Your comments are highly welcome!

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Kireeti.

=C2=A0

---------- Forwarded me= ssage ----------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti.kompella@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kireeti Kompella and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-kompella-mpls-rmr
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Resilient MPLS Rings
Document date:=C2=A0 2014-10-26
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes the use of the MPLS control and data p= lanes
=C2=A0 =C2=A0on ring topologies.=C2=A0 It describes the special nature of r= ings, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0proceeds to show how MPLS can be effectively used in such topo= logies.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It describes how MPLS rings are configured, auto-discovered an= d
=C2=A0 =C2=A0signaled, as well as how the data plane works.=C2=A0 Companion= documents
=C2=A0 =C2=A0describe the details of discovery and signaling for specific =C2=A0 =C2=A0protocols.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



=C2=A0

--
Kireeti

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


--089e0158c8dab680c20506eea623-- From nobody Mon Nov 3 07:06:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DBA1A0398 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 07:06:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dRyNn2GCIsHa for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 07:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 363461A03AA for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 07:06:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9518; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415027165; x=1416236765; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject; bh=nH1cd9KiB9bLeW+ydQdXY9pnbcOnAQuAr1kxVaBhbdg=; b=bDrRvlLSOoj5wIAirJxaD7LpTER3zqhmYOxnNjXfhqTsAx1cNGN+ElKb Docvir5rJl+DaqpCoz1flZZR5nqa1EAk6uXd7o70rk/XCJalVLvHzREWD DQSsYfP45i+VYXBOhI8NG1BFuRW+E1FphxQn4fLsYOXbxwaC2GH/pAkEd w=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,308,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="92854725" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Nov 2014 15:06:04 +0000 Received: from [10.61.69.49] (ams3-vpn-dhcp1329.cisco.com [10.61.69.49]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA3F6253026928; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 15:06:03 GMT Message-ID: <545799DB.6010402@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 15:06:03 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "'Martin Vigoureux'" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040803010208040705060200" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/iyeAptlq4heZE_WSqpREoBN_xw8 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] MPLS RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 15:06:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040803010208040705060200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This draft is a support draft for the work on MRT that is being led in RTGWG. I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the maturity expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting. That said, the draft is well written and I cannot see any reason why it should not be put forward for adoption as an MPLS WG draft. I have some minor comments below which should be looked at when the draft is next revised. - Stewart ========== LDP Extensions to Support Maximally Redundant Trees draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02 1. Introduction IP/LDP Fast-Reroute using MRTs can provide 100% coverage for link and node failures in an arbitrary network topology where the failure doesn't split the network. It can also be deployed incrementally; an SB> NIT isn't the more common term partition the network? MRT Island is formed of connected supporting routers and the MRTs are computed inside that island. 3. Terminology For ease of reading, some of the terminology defined in [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-architecture] is repeated here. SB> Minor point - repeating definitions means you you need SB> to track the definitions in multiple drafts in the design SB> and publication phase. I appreciate the convenience, but SB> you should think hard about whether to retain this. Redundant Trees (RT): A pair of trees where the path from any node X to the root R along the first tree is node-disjoint with the path from the same node X to the root along the second tree. These can be computed in 2-connected graphs. Maximally Redundant Trees (MRT): A pair of trees where the path from any node X to the root R along the first tree and the path from the same node X to the root along the second tree share the minimum number of nodes and the minimum number of links. Each such shared node is a cut-vertex. Any shared links are cut-links. Any RT is an MRT but many MRTs are not RTs. The two MRTs are referred to as MRT-Blue and MRT-Red. MRT-Red: MRT-Red is used to describe one of the two MRTs; it is used to described the associated forwarding topology and MT-ID. Specifically, MRT-Red is the decreasing MRT where links in the GADAG are taken in the direction from a higher topologically ordered node to a lower one. SB> Minor point - you should expand and reference GADAG 4. Overview of LDP Signaling Extensions for MRT SB> Nit - there is an English problem between the into para below SB> and the list that follows. It does not scan from the intro to SB> each member of the list. Routers need to know which of their neighbors support MRT. Supporting MRT indicates several different aspects of behavior, as listed below. 1. Support for Multi-Topology (MT) - this MAY also be indicated via the Multi-Topology LDP Capability [RFC7307]. 2. Understand the Rainbow MRT MT-ID and apply the associated labels to all relevant MT-IDs. 3. Advertise the Rainbow MRT MT-ID to the appropriate neighbors for the associated prefix. 4. If acting as LDP egress for a prefix in the default topology, also advertise and act as egress for the same prefix in MRT-Red and MRT-Blue. 5. For a FEC learned from a neighbor that does not support MRT, originate FECS for MRT-Red and MRT-Blue with the same prefix. SB> Nit s/FECS/FECs/ This MRT Island egress behavior is to support an MRT Island that does not include all routers in the area/level. 4.1.1. Interaction of LDP MRT Capability with IPv4 and IPv6 An LSR which advertises the MRT LDP capability is expected to advertise MRT-related FEC-label bindings for both IPv4 and IPv6 address families, if the LSR originates shortest-path FEC-label bindings for those address families. SB> Surely the rule is that the you advertise bindings for the SB> set of address families you support. That makes you IPv4 and/or SB> IPv6 and/or IPvn agnostic. --------------040803010208040705060200 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
This draft is a support draft for the work on MRT that is being 
led in RTGWG.

I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the  maturity 
expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be 
taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining 
the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published 
ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting.

That said, the draft is well written and I cannot see any 
reason why it should not be put forward for adoption as 
an MPLS WG draft.

I have some minor comments below which should be looked at when
the draft is next revised.
 

- Stewart

==========




          LDP Extensions to Support Maximally Redundant Trees
                      draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02



1.  Introduction



   IP/LDP Fast-Reroute using MRTs can provide 100% coverage for link and
   node failures in an arbitrary network topology where the failure
   doesn't split the network.  It can also be deployed incrementally; an

SB> NIT isn't the more common term partition the network?

   MRT Island is formed of connected supporting routers and the MRTs are
   computed inside that island.


3.  Terminology

   For ease of reading, some of the terminology defined in
   [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-architecture] is repeated here.

SB> Minor point - repeating definitions means you you need
SB> to track the definitions in multiple drafts in the design
SB> and publication phase. I appreciate the convenience, but
SB> you should think hard about whether to retain this.

 Redundant Trees (RT):   A pair of trees where the path from any node
      X to the root R along the first tree is node-disjoint with the
      path from the same node X to the root along the second tree.
      These can be computed in 2-connected graphs.

   Maximally Redundant Trees (MRT):   A pair of trees where the path
      from any node X to the root R along the first tree and the path
      from the same node X to the root along the second tree share the
      minimum number of nodes and the minimum number of links.  Each
      such shared node is a cut-vertex.  Any shared links are cut-links.
      Any RT is an MRT but many MRTs are not RTs.  The two MRTs are
      referred to as MRT-Blue and MRT-Red.

   MRT-Red:   MRT-Red is used to describe one of the two MRTs; it is
      used to described the associated forwarding topology and MT-ID.
      Specifically, MRT-Red is the decreasing MRT where links in the
      GADAG are taken in the direction from a higher topologically
      ordered node to a lower one.

SB> Minor point - you should expand and reference GADAG


4.  Overview of LDP Signaling Extensions for MRT

SB> Nit - there is an English problem between the into para below
SB> and the list that follows. It does not scan from the intro to
SB> each member of the list.

   Routers need to know which of their neighbors support MRT.
   Supporting MRT indicates several different aspects of behavior, as
   listed below.

   1.  Support for Multi-Topology (MT) - this MAY also be indicated via
       the Multi-Topology LDP Capability [RFC7307].

   2.  Understand the Rainbow MRT MT-ID and apply the associated labels
       to all relevant MT-IDs.

   3.  Advertise the Rainbow MRT MT-ID to the appropriate neighbors for
       the associated prefix.

   4.  If acting as LDP egress for a prefix in the default topology,
       also advertise and act as egress for the same prefix in MRT-Red
       and MRT-Blue.

   5.  For a FEC learned from a neighbor that does not support MRT,
       originate FECS for MRT-Red and MRT-Blue with the same prefix.
SB> Nit s/FECS/FECs/
       This MRT Island egress behavior is to support an MRT Island that
       does not include all routers in the area/level.


4.1.1.  Interaction of LDP MRT Capability with IPv4 and IPv6

   An LSR which advertises the MRT LDP capability is expected to
   advertise MRT-related FEC-label bindings for both IPv4 and IPv6
   address families, if the LSR originates shortest-path FEC-label
   bindings for those address families.

SB> Surely the rule is that the you advertise bindings for the
SB> set of address families you support. That makes you IPv4 and/or
SB> IPv6 and/or IPvn agnostic.
--------------040803010208040705060200-- From nobody Mon Nov 3 08:08:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44211A0077 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:08:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3lqS6F18Xoze for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-x232.google.com (mail-qc0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D8091A005E for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id b13so10331098qcw.37 for ; Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:08:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:from:content-type:message-id:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:to; bh=TZr065D/fpEB7JzbxcBEekau6JWVNzRXRY3Gp9IHAKw=; b=Rbs9bwdBqTjcVxaLYbG3sX8l+zvKZ4x7Zv1si6NcSWRyYWHwL5dUVM+pn/kW4r38e0 9tPLxUUFB0HL5hJP655MTv+rUTUdjBRZZ51n4IfauuA+RDCU4e8AldBAlcuSTFu4tJrC in19X6xGUwP3QWEDFePBg8xV/oNox6gd1CPxuP3xNr5qFqW+j/NEe5kKaqI9OaMEEf4f SMkw5AlG3ZSw5lPFDcNVtU97QTAGYoiAcfAGkPCfCxH1UqY8PL6ysct2y406ho18fWTg 6WsxcwSNcR5oMbmJ3GRNQUObPKe8n212CQgczgQIs9gsvB/pXLZHpuP5EFpHqXF6pQDl 5Uzw== X-Received: by 10.229.53.133 with SMTP id m5mr65979531qcg.28.1415030885306; Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.182.58.151] (52.sub-70-192-208.myvzw.com. [70.192.208.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k4sm17186784qaj.21.2014.11.03.08.08.04 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:08:04 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B511) Message-Id: <333928C5-1105-4302-9BB0-6439C8D9C855@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:08:01 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: "mpls@ietf.org" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/rAU0AaCzKhP2U7rJVm4dJIr6K0c Cc: "draft-chandra-mpls-enhanced-frr-bypass@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] Refresh Interval Independent FRR facility protection X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:08:09 -0000 Folks, Hi We are proposing a few RSVP extensions to make Bypass-FRR procedures be inde= pendent of the refresh-interval. The underlying motivation, the new extensio= ns and the relevant procedures are all detailed in the following draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chandra-mpls-enhanced-frr-bypass-00 Please do give it a read and let us know what you think. Your comments are h= ighly welcome. Regards, Pavan et al= From nobody Mon Nov 3 11:50:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A2A1A711A for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:29:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U_Y_ccwMTM59 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:29:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0752.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::752]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85C581A7031 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:29:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from BN1PR07MB920.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.216.12) by BN1PR07MB165.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.216.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:29:00 +0000 Received: from mail-lb0-f170.google.com (209.85.217.170) by BN1PR07MB920.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.216.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:28:57 +0000 Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id z12so1491953lbi.1 for ; Mon, 03 Nov 2014 11:28:46 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkoq2cuPbynXFi0bXylWQ7PXDgiehaiKBFJjor/rV+qYCw/jYrjcQWJXdFk58gzch1lENvD MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.41.168 with SMTP id g8mr52556772lbl.59.1415042926585; Mon, 03 Nov 2014 11:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.199.169 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:28:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141027231233.21010.5632.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:28:46 -0800 Message-ID: From: Bhupesh Kothari To: Kireeti Kompella Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11345d76fb424e0506f95a44" X-Originating-IP: [209.85.217.170] X-ClientProxiedBy: AM3PR04CA0015.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.242.16.15) To BN1PR07MB920.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.216.12) X-MS-Exchange-Transport-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR07MB920; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0384275935 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(189002)(51704005)(199003)(24454002)(55446002)(87976001)(93886004)(110136001)(230783001)(69596002)(4396001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(107046002)(95666004)(42186005)(105586002)(106356001)(120916001)(21056001)(81156004)(99396003)(59536001)(97736003)(92726001)(512874002)(122386002)(61266001)(20776003)(64706001)(71186001)(66066001)(450100001)(62966003)(77096003)(77156002)(31966008)(50986999)(101416001)(102836001)(93516999)(76176999)(63696999)(54356999)(122856001)(84326002)(46102003)(40100003)(92566001)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR07MB920; H:mail-lb0-f170.google.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR07MB165; X-OriginatorOrg: gainspeed.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/7KVshgWy_ClfeAnijPm2VOiOrCQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 11:50:22 -0800 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-larp-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 19:29:25 -0000 --001a11345d76fb424e0506f95a44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kireeti, > > Hi Bhupesh, > > > On Oct 30, 2014, at 14:02 , Bhupesh Kothari wrote: > > Hi Kireeti, > > Can you describe how L-ARP can be used between a DSLAM and its upstream > router to form bi-directional tunnels? I want to understand what, if any, > assumptions are made. > > > L-ARP is for the DSLAM (or server, or whatever) to talk to a BNG (or remote > server). For the reverse direction, one possibility is =E2=80=9Clabeled = DHCP=E2=80=9D. A > quick overview is that when a DSLAM X asks for an IP address, it also says, > allocate a label for me. The upstream node (switch/BNG/CMTS) Y then allocates > a label, which it advertises to reach X. That would establish bidirectional > connectivity. If you have X and Y to begin, the solution works. But that is not always the case. Take a L2 CMTS for example. It has an IP address but only for management, and is either connected on a separate physical network for management or the management traffic is in-band on a management VLAN. For customer data traffic, which is what I want to tunnel, it does not have visibility into what (and how many) upstream routers are and is just a bridge in the data path. In other words, for label exchange is such a scenario, ARP semantics does not fit well, especially in the reverse direction. > > To establish hierarchical tunnels, I would recommend L-BGP (RFC 3107). Two > possibilities: The X announces this label (with next hop Y); or Y announces > this label with itself as next hop. In the former case, the L-DHCP reply needs > to have a label for X to advertise. > > If this makes sense (and interests you), I=E2=80=99d be happy to collabor= ate with you > on the L-DHCP draft. Interested. Let me give you my general comments on the whole draft, and see if I am on the same page. Agree on the need for a simpler label distribution protocol in certain scenarios. Modeling the protocol as stateless with simple semantics is highly desirable in such cases. There are two key functions: endpoint discovery and label exchange (including service labels). The L-ARP message format though is biased for host use case. For example, a host knows (either static, DHCP or NDP as in v6) what its default gateways are. It also understands what subnets imply. But in the label exchange process for L2 topologies where nodes are connected over an Ethernet fabric, such semantics might not be applicable. Traffic entering into the tunnel could be based on some identifier other than IP destination such as a DOCSIS channel. In such a case, I am not looking to "resolve" an IP address. You might say that in this case for all traffic, I am looking to resolve the default gateway. Re-using (hijacking ;-)) ARP Ether type does not buy you much. Intermediate nodes on an Ethernet fabric does not care for Ether Type. The end nodes that consume ARP anyway needs the new functionality. I agree that re-using a Ether type saves some changes relatively, but hardware type in ARP, IMHO, is still intended for resolution and not for a new need. Label exchange sounds like a new protocol. One common use case I have is creating bi-directional tunnels between access nodes and all routers. In addition, there is a need to create multiple tunnels (PWs is more appropriate) between a pair of access node and its upstream routers for different traffic types. The topology fits your applicability. > > Kireeti. Bhupesh --001a11345d76fb424e0506f95a44 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kireeti,

>=C2=A0
=
> Hi Bhupesh,
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
&= gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Oct 30, 2014, at 14:02 , Bhupesh Kothari <bhupesh@anvaya.net> wrote:
= >=C2=A0
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Kireeti,
>=C2=A0
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Can you describe how L-ARP can be used between a= DSLAM and its upstream
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 router to form bi-dire= ctional tunnels?=C2=A0 I want to understand what, if any,
> = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 assumptions are made.
>=C2=A0
>=C2= =A0
> L-ARP is for the DSLAM (or server, or whatever) to talk = to a BNG (or remote
> server).=C2=A0 For the reverse direction= , one possibility is =E2=80=9Clabeled DHCP=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0A
>= quick overview is that when a DSLAM X asks for an IP address, it also says= ,
> allocate a label for me.=C2=A0 The upstream node (switch/B= NG/CMTS) Y then allocates
> a label, which it advertises to re= ach X.=C2=A0 That would establish bidirectional
> connectivity= .

If you have X and Y to begin, the solution works= .=C2=A0 But that is not
always the case.=C2=A0 Take a L2 CMTS for= example.=C2=A0 It has an IP address
but only for management, and= is either connected on a separate
physical network for managemen= t or the management traffic is in-band
on a management VLAN.=C2= =A0 For customer data traffic, which is what I want
to tunnel, it= does not have visibility into what (and how many)
upstream route= rs are and is just a bridge in the data path.=C2=A0 In other
word= s, for label exchange is such a scenario, ARP semantics does not
= fit well, especially in the reverse direction.

>=C2=A0
> To establish hierarchical tunnels, I = would recommend L-BGP (RFC 3107).=C2=A0 Two
> possibilities: T= he X announces this label (with next hop Y); or Y announces
> = this label with itself as next hop.=C2=A0 In the former case, the L-DHCP re= ply needs
> to have a label for X to advertise.
>= =C2=A0
> If this makes sense (and interests you), I=E2=80=99d = be happy to collaborate with you
> on the L-DHCP draft.
<= div>
Interested.=C2=A0 Let me give you my general comments on= the whole draft,
and see if I am on the same page.
Agree on the need for a simpler label distribution protocol in = certain
scenarios.=C2=A0 Modeling the protocol as stateless with = simple semantics
is highly desirable in such cases.=C2=A0

There are two key functions: endpoint discovery and label= exchange
(including service labels).=C2=A0 The L-ARP message for= mat though is biased
for host use case.=C2=A0 For example, a host= knows (either static, DHCP or
NDP as in v6) what its default gat= eways are.=C2=A0 It also understands what
subnets imply.=C2=A0 Bu= t in the label exchange process for L2 topologies
where nodes are= connected over an Ethernet fabric, such semantics
might not be a= pplicable.=C2=A0 Traffic entering into the tunnel could be
based = on some identifier other than IP destination such as a DOCSIS
cha= nnel.=C2=A0 In such a case, I am not looking to "resolve" an IP a= ddress.
You might say that in this case for all traffic, I am loo= king to
resolve the default gateway.

Re-= using (hijacking ;-)) =C2=A0ARP Ether type does not buy you much.=C2=A0 Int= ermediate=C2=A0
nodes on an Ethernet fabric does not care for Eth= er Type.=C2=A0 The end=C2=A0
nodes that consume ARP anyway needs = the new functionality.=C2=A0 I agree
that re-using a Ether type s= aves some changes relatively, but hardware
type in ARP, IMHO, is = still intended for resolution and not for a new need.
Label excha= nge sounds like a new protocol.

One common use cas= e I have is creating bi-directional tunnels between
access no= des and all routers.=C2=A0 In addition, there is a need to create
multiple tunnels (PWs is more appropriate) between a pair of access<= div>node and its upstream routers for different traffic types.=C2=A0 The to= pology
fits your applicability.


>=C2=A0
> Kireeti.

Bhupesh<= /div>


--001a11345d76fb424e0506f95a44-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 13:15:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540C61A0004; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 13:15:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ilYtJo53jxen; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 13:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22E451ACF7A; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 13:15:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA4LF8hu005516; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 21:15:08 GMT Received: from 950129200 (unsi-72-29-212-251.unsi.net [72.29.212.251] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA4LEoi8005215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Nov 2014 21:15:05 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 21:14:48 -0000 Message-ID: <078a01cff874$68290fd0$387b2f70$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac/4dFwA4sfUthCwRX2VT+i97H/U3w== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21076.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--3.260-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--3.260-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: LJXx5KtoeX8TSpw9+3gvPwRH1Nr7oERdPllq4+7Psp/I9EDAP/dptiSo qSYEcdZD2v1otv+WJtt5OPD8XJFfpE1+zyfzlN7y/sToY2qzpx5q8/xv2Um1avoLR4+zsDTtLa1 3Fo3TPRa4wZmJAw/nK9k+LduqIcJJeZYe6wCTGf/MshMEIu4d3eh6vUQky8b7LLR5nF3ltXgVUh luC41uNBWJz0qF3xvHJIWB1QP6/JM= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/0oMVYpVa3v0pvlwHn35lpJRsISI Cc: pce@ietf.org, routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Discussion of TEAS, MPLS and CCAMP charters in Honolulu X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 21:15:13 -0000 Hi, Deborah, Lou, George, Loa, and I managed a face-to-face meeting this week in which we advanced our drafts of the charters for TEAS, MPLS, and CCAMP. I plan to post these as inputs to our discussions as soon as I have a moment. Deborah and Lou have set aside some time in the CCAMP meeting in Honolulu for discussion of the charters and to allow you to express your opinions. I think the plan is that the ADs introduce the charters allowing the chairs to chair the meeting. Cheers, Adrian From nobody Wed Nov 5 17:15:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6861A1A4F; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id owG5kYy8BTXN; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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with ESMTP; 06 Nov 2014 01:15:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA61FbVS016011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 6 Nov 2014 01:15:37 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:15:37 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: Sriganesh Kini , "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Fwd: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHP3NbQqa8eO6s3fUqRAo2zXBulvpxS+agg Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 01:15:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140930000500.7476.1694.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.255.125] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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dA0KPiBtcGxzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vbXBscw0KDQo= From nobody Fri Nov 7 14:23:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 211061A1B7C for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 14:23:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IQnZu6gwhNgJ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 14:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BBE1A1B77; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 14:23:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141107222305.7220.15436.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:23:05 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/CD4otJ-MmmG5fUa9d0PBoNKNTgg Subject: [mpls] State changed: charter-ietf-mpls-06-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 22:23:06 -0000 State changed to Informal IESG review. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ From nobody Sat Nov 8 10:18:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E077D1A6FCD for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:18:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdpRIwF_TdTo for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 501341A6FC7 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.103.244] (unknown [199.68.254.218]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 391CE180110A; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 19:18:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <545E5E85.6030308@pi.nu> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:18:45 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/VafRRUez7N6q-WoEwzbkZ_Mb9p4 Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] MPLS wg re-charter - overlap with ccamp, pce and teas X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:18:53 -0000 Working Group, As a result of the Routing Area tuning the MPLS wg is up for a re-charter, the new proposed charter is found at. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ The changes to the previous charter is comparatively minor and the discussion on this charter proposal will be done on the MPLS wg mailing list. However, there is one part of the charter discussion concerning the overlap between four working groups - mpls, teas, ccamp and pce - that will initially be done at the f2f meeting here in Honolulu in the ccamp meeting. The four proposed charter are found at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-teas/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ccamp/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pce/ THe CCAMP meeting is at: THURSDAY, November 13, 2014 1640-1910 - Thursday Afternoon Session III Room: Coral 5 The ccamp agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/91/agenda/ccamp/ The charter discussion is scheduled early on the agenda /Loa for the MPLS working group chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Sun Nov 9 08:08:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E5A61A1AE6 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:08:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JkfsJuxeeKzt for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6973B1A1AE5 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from us70tusmtp2.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.64]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 534284BE1B151 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 16:08:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70TWXCHHUB04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70twxchhub04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.36]) by us70tusmtp2.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sA9G8WiQ020286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:08:32 -0500 Received: from [135.244.1.240] (135.5.27.18) by US70TWXCHHUB04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:08:31 -0500 Message-ID: <545F9178.7040401@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:08:24 +0100 From: Martin Vigoureux User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <5452173D.3050605@alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <5452173D.3050605@alcatel-lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [135.5.27.18] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/my22EdoLkLYJ6xmj2Bqdo42sDIc Subject: [mpls] Important Agenda Change X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 16:08:38 -0000 All, we had to reshuffle the agenda, leading to important changes. Please have a look at the latest and hopefully last version of the agenda: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-mpls sorry for the inconvenience caused. By the way, I have only received few presentation materials, please send to me them by noon today. -m From nobody Sun Nov 9 11:13:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E4F1A6F44 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:13:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VhpLYxI2rq4s for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:13:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 913C31A6F34 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:13:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=13672; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415560393; x=1416769993; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=O5voBZoFNhDEyJymfr8+CAu4pLdZ2PP0PGiznTUuqp8=; b=LM9unxHwWUoDqVUhYwFDM5mUc2IuIVA3Ku6xfQHt7XBdwc5zGuIonLXK YSm5sa75uaw8KpimtrkKjMgGVcSuP1jXoeDWFKYHwubhzDmAUhhztTEvt 0zCNFd/NdSkyGmXpDRFfONFYU3m6OHeJNcMSAX+XMMOO/IiLeudx7tgDv Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgcIANS7X1StJV2a/2dsb2JhbABbgkhGVFkEgwLIXAEJh08CHHMWAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEEAQEBIAo+AwYFDgICAQgRBAEBCx0DAgICGQwLFAkIAgQBDQUIE4gmDbdYlRkBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBASQLxACAR4FERcEBgGCdzaBHgWQDoIjjSiDT5Fdg3psgUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,347,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="370688318" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Nov 2014 19:13:11 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA9JDABQ024908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 Nov 2014 19:13:10 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([169.254.3.187]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 13:13:10 -0600 From: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" To: Sriganesh Kini , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP6hKhq/cfbC19c0+F41Q6Cs6QDpw087SAgAYsmQCAHa3I4A== Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 19:13:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <544120D1.6000303@pi.nu> <544162EF.1070806@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.127.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E2529AC6415F6B4197901F2B67212E9A15C152ACxmbrcdx13ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/lKbES4z5eJoeBAYXR9WBh5VubeY Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 19:13:16 -0000 --_000_E2529AC6415F6B4197901F2B67212E9A15C152ACxmbrcdx13ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTG9hLA0KDQooc29ycnkgZm9yIHRoZSBkZWxheSkNCg0KSSBhbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55 IElQUi4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KU2l2YQ0KDQpGcm9tOiBtcGxzIFttYWlsdG86bXBscy1ib3VuY2Vz QGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgU3JpZ2FuZXNoIEtpbmkNClNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIE9j 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Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_E2529AC6415F6B4197901F2B67212E9A15C152ACxmbrcdx13ciscoc_-- From nobody Sun Nov 9 14:25:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A161A86DF for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xEW5V8O07DpB for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0114.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7387A1A01D5 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO2PR05MB554.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.196.141) by CO2PR05MB556.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.196.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:25:42 +0000 Received: from CO2PR05MB554.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.196.141]) by CO2PR05MB554.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.196.141]) with mapi id 15.01.0011.000; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:25:42 +0000 From: Kireeti Kompella To: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP6hKgApWoLmOirUK4JCjrr4udRpw0n+KAgAYsmQCAHgHFgIAANctO Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:25:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <544120D1.6000303@pi.nu> <544162EF.1070806@pi.nu> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [166.176.56.134] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR05MB556; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR05MB556; x-forefront-prvs: 0390DB4BDA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(189002)(252514010)(24454002)(164054003)(377454003)(199003)(377424004)(230783001)(83716003)(99396003)(19617315012)(82746002)(120916001)(15975445006)(110136001)(93886004)(92726001)(19580405001)(19580395003)(87936001)(92566001)(86362001)(2656002)(50986999)(54356999)(21056001)(76176999)(97736003)(31966008)(16236675004)(19625215002)(33656002)(101416001)(66066001)(46102003)(20776003)(64706001)(4396001)(106356001)(62966003)(105586002)(77156002)(36756003)(99286002)(106116001)(95666004)(122556002)(40100003)(107046002)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO2PR05MB556; H:CO2PR05MB554.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FD32748173674AE384FD2EB7D6F679B8junipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/FNeZSgfPxNVqMLSDzXmlplmlLV0 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:25:47 -0000 --_000_FD32748173674AE384FD2EB7D6F679B8junipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me neither. Kireeti On Nov 9, 2014, at 09:13, Siva Sivabalan (msiva) > wrote: Hi Loa, (sorry for the delay) I am not aware of any IPR. Thanks, Siva From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:59 PM To: Loa Andersson Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.iet= f.org Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Hi Loa, I am not aware of IPR related to solutions recommended in this draft. Sri On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Loa Andersson > wrote: Folks, I have been made aware of that I have there is a mistake in this IPR poll. I wrote that there is one IPR disclosed against this document, that is not correct. There are no IPRs disclosed against the document. The authors that have responded that they are not aware of IPRs, will not have to re-state this. /Loa On 2014-10-17 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote: Working Group, We have done an MPLS-RT review of draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label. The outcome is such that we anticipate a poll for working group adoption after the authors have updated the draft. Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy- label? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_FD32748173674AE384FD2EB7D6F679B8junipernet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Me neither. 

Kireeti

On Nov 9, 2014, at 09:13, Siva Sivabalan (msiva) <msiva@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Loa,=

 <= /p>

(sorry for the delay)

 <= /p>

I am not aware of any IPR= .

 <= /p>

Thanks,=

Siva

 <= /p>

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:59 PM
To: Loa Andersson
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label=

 

Hi Loa,

 

I am not aware of IPR related to solutions recommend= ed in this draft.

 

Sri

 

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Loa Andersson <= loa@pi.nu> wrote:

Folks,

I have been made aware of that I have there is a mistake in this
IPR poll.

I wrote that there is one IPR disclosed against this document, that
is not correct. There are no IPRs disclosed against the document.

The authors that have responded that they are not aware of IPRs, will
not have to re-state this.

/Loa



On 2014-10-17 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:

Working Group,

We have done an MPLS-RT review of draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label.

The outcome is such that we anticipate a poll for working group adoption after the authors have updated the draft.

Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy- label?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)


--


Loa Andersson                 =       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                &= nbsp;         loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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--_000_FD32748173674AE384FD2EB7D6F679B8junipernet_-- From nobody Sun Nov 9 14:55:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3D71A7006 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:55:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hDsQIsqor3A0 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF7F51A875B for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:55:08 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79206d0000014d2-3e-545f9834368d Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 10.CA.05330.4389F545; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:37:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:55:06 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP6hKiTAr6z4H7xkW4uUlBAMXhkZw087SAgAYsmQCAHa3I4IAAiceA//+0Z5g= Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:55:06 +0000 Message-ID: <9F5F26AB-36C3-43E4-9E8E-5BC5AA86022D@ericsson.com> References: <544120D1.6000303@pi.nu> <544162EF.1070806@pi.nu> , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9F5F26AB36C343E49E8E5BC5AA86022Dericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLrHT9d0RnyIQe8rXouWrxMYLX7s2MRu 8f3SEhaLW0tXslpceHSc2YHVY8rvjaweS5b8ZPK43nSV3ePL5c9sASxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJ XBn/9vxgKlgXXbH20zm2Bsbnfl2MnBwSAiYSEw/sY4GwxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcIRR4uaqE1DO MkaJOQuusYJUsQkYSPz/dhysQ0RAS+LFlc/MIEXMAn8ZJZovzGDsYuTgEBZwkTh91xaixlXi 6NrnTBC2n0TT3n6wEhYBFYm5/eogYV4Be4ntXedZIXb9ZpQ43XqBESTBCZS4decTmM0IdN33 U2vA5jALiEvcejKfCeJqAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2OFqEmW2LCnnxligaDEyZlPWCYwisxC0j4L SdksJGUQcR2JBbs/sUHY2hLLFr5mhrHPHHjMhCy+gJF9FSNHaXFqWW66kcEmRmDEHZNg093B uOel5SFGAQ5GJR7eDTfiQoRYE8uKK3MPMUpzsCiJ886qnRcsJJCeWJKanZpakFoUX1Sak1p8 iJGJg1OqgXF2R6HTy9W95yac31498ZpRw3Z3s69PM6xPVgdu6HCtlfv/56GP2rxnJ56fUomW W/hJr37uxsbSlDo1iV0XSh4uE+l+9rQr8JfYrYpj24I6HsySKj6jvrK5vf3bW/vJTYmPHvIz /4rauvm6X+/k86+Ov9/xyvSivv3KW40Cn3Zc9Nt+bf63E4L8SizFGYmGWsxFxYkATnxSQJkC AAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/12BtmsVQhSsPyPocBm_yaIQLLqE Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "Siva Sivabalan \(msiva\)" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:55:17 -0000 --_000_9F5F26AB36C343E49E8E5BC5AA86022Dericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me neither Regards, Jeff On Nov 9, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Kireeti Kompella > wrote: Me neither. Kireeti On Nov 9, 2014, at 09:13, Siva Sivabalan (msiva) > wrote: Hi Loa, (sorry for the delay) I am not aware of any IPR. Thanks, Siva From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:59 PM To: Loa Andersson Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.iet= f.org Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Hi Loa, I am not aware of IPR related to solutions recommended in this draft. Sri On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Loa Andersson > wrote: Folks, I have been made aware of that I have there is a mistake in this IPR poll. I wrote that there is one IPR disclosed against this document, that is not correct. There are no IPRs disclosed against the document. The authors that have responded that they are not aware of IPRs, will not have to re-state this. /Loa On 2014-10-17 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote: Working Group, We have done an MPLS-RT review of draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label. The outcome is such that we anticipate a poll for working group adoption after the authors have updated the draft. Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy- label? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_9F5F26AB36C343E49E8E5BC5AA86022Dericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Me neither 

Regards,
Jeff

On Nov 9, 2014, at 12:25 PM, Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net> wrote:

Me neither. 

Kireeti

On Nov 9, 2014, at 09:13, Siva Sivabalan (msiva) <msiva@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Loa,=

 <= /p>

(sorry for the delay)

 <= /p>

I am not aware of any IPR= .

 <= /p>

Thanks,=

Siva

 <= /p>

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:59 PM
To: Loa Andersson
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label=

 

Hi Loa,

 

I am not aware of IPR related to solutions recommend= ed in this draft.

 

Sri

 

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Loa Andersson <= loa@pi.nu> wrote:

Folks,

I have been made aware of that I have there is a mistake in this
IPR poll.

I wrote that there is one IPR disclosed against this document, that
is not correct. There are no IPRs disclosed against the document.

The authors that have responded that they are not aware of IPRs, will
not have to re-state this.

/Loa



On 2014-10-17 15:59, Loa Andersson wrote:

Working Group,

We have done an MPLS-RT review of draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label.

The outcome is such that we anticipate a poll for working group adoption after the authors have updated the draft.

Before we do poll to see if we have consensus to accept the document
as a working group document we want to do an IPR poll on the document.

This mail starts that IPR poll.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy- label?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

Currently there are one IPR disclosures that relates to this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG co-chair)


--


Loa Andersson                 =       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                &= nbsp;         loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
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ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

 

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
--_000_9F5F26AB36C343E49E8E5BC5AA86022Dericssoncom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 00:53:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E920D1A8987; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:53:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kmf_jXCjFQ5y; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5280C1A8979; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:53:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141110085305.19222.49170.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 00:53:05 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/2DXmmQp_nvzn5HSwiIHLbfRwgzQ Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 08:53:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : IANA registries for LSP ping Code Points Authors : Bruno Decraene Nobo Akiya Carlos Pignataro Loa Andersson Sam Aldrin Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2014-11-09 Abstract: RFC 4379 and RFC 6424 created name spaces for Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping. However, those RFC did not create the corresponding IANA registries for DS Flags, Multipath Type, Pad TLV and Address Types. There is now a need to make further code point allocations from these name spaces. This document updates RFC 4379 and RFC 6424 in that it creates the IANA registries for that purpose. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 10 09:24:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBC71A01D8; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RlpOP6JrQBLo; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BFC31A01F6; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id h11so11162666wiw.3 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=o2AAngpFFNGUv041OIZ0YLJU3UU4fWqZnrTXr0Zk010=; b=fdpZN5+w0xvud7rLPTznHYhmT1VrNSTvZR/HDLKpCbAiPAdwssXmmuiG+SkRauX4iF nJrI3eCY1H0zdwPgEyA5T2icYmpmcmakrbJw0rDP6ykw0ir2QUdlXVHEO5rWxdETdhmr hC+tQqxMsVoYRrVdgXauz/ntA6W5DCwZsNbzmePJUnRO4w3rJMIdVioDM3dzEBjEs8ce U2tD4XRv/K4oh0th4Bp/iczxa0cLIQXmgb7bBHKzUkiBELWWeUFxTME69MsyF0nopxjR nSQkD+8kNan/eGTy+3m+vIE9aL4YKz7/XtGf3iGmtnvB0z8ze2/e76N/8p/Px1rGaeFt 6lPg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.19.164 with SMTP id g4mr32042068wie.51.1415638983908; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.180.20.79 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:03:03 -0800 Message-ID: From: Greg Shepherd To: "bier@ietf.org" , "mboned@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , mpls@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec53f386bc425bb050784220c Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/XLLL2T48S4C2cqdh8sHy4uYeX3U X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:24:54 -0800 Subject: [mpls] BIER BoF Today, w/ WebEx details X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:03:11 -0000 --bcaec53f386bc425bb050784220c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 bier Monday, November 10, 2014 1:00 pm | Hawaii Time (Honolulu, GMT-10:00) | 2 hr Join WebEx meeting: https://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/j.php?MTID=mdfb183b4cd0d2cfaeceacf3950895a00 Meeting number: 825 308 148 Meeting password: 1234 Looking forward to seeing (hearing) you all there! Cheers, Greg --bcaec53f386bc425bb050784220c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
bier
Monday, November 10= , 2014
1:00 pm | Hawaii Ti= me (Honolulu, GMT-10:00) | 2 hr

Join WebEx = meeting:
https://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/j.php?MTID=3Dmdfb183= b4cd0d2cfaeceacf3950895a00
Me= eting number: 825 308 148
= Meeting password: 1234

Looking forward to seeing (hearing) you all there!

Cheers,
Greg
--bcaec53f386bc425bb050784220c-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 12:45:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841621ACEA7 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:45:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.753 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.753 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, REPTO_QUOTE_YAHOO=0.646, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ihYM_h5TAQgl for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nm39-vm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm39-vm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.239.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B0C51ACEA6 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.196.81.173] by nm39.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Nov 2014 20:45:34 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.196] by tm19.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Nov 2014 20:45:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Nov 2014 20:45:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 288328.58615.bm@omp1005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 24324 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Nov 2014 20:45:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1415652334; bh=+EysNMbRvfeLWjKE8be032kb155mQ9e177qBOoaH2Kk=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=IoHocJjq/HHFppiY5TY1ZQVuqAOP7Xz5dNBOoWUOalDLmKb6KdnoarmMOyBcqvFmzRU/uCjCuHur7k2NFwbPPXx3Ka2Avz0Y9z7YwowqkxfWawtQhgKkl1LEhx/sWg8tEBGT+IVwu+yd3izwaGj5SkUdWKgSSgZr0El9MnYLlFU= X-YMail-OSG: AiE.KzsVM1nPoZuoEgqaDVm2OQPMAQPxGQX0aKWfg7z7Qx7 lvvi_Mms0pTkS5WvPet8tBrpNwfjriWyD5wapL1nlZuhdLfrVtBWHsCwGFvI 87zfAz36elCKrDsaTRzHt6PjWSpAYPSpov4_6qSBDqcyun6A3E_VD.T8bHIe 2_5.2QKOKXOlKX_z1F26zj9vCkaI6L7FZ.uU5Ev1FIO7DehSkcWYvgYave70 sTO4P6z3vI.NNnNoR7xu.DSt2wcnulYhtDH7Lr4irVpgictzhOwtSNyb38I3 XifuWm5Z_0mVgCniyiBkmhxB9v_B4VPF7URmXN4EsnKFF2PX5W0O97ZEBTW8 7VLI4Ov5W_a6AJxyFQfsfS1DKa51NVogh2YiTZerxU3OzFsikqKcV6nyVK1g mUBhS0paqzwGPjiVZbOQ2ko_c3PpNUe_z8vFGN70nwZdSz0EZcXsr9swMDir ygCmOEg9XiAiX0V1Mza31mU_PofY2iDU1R4y5Pl1YHXr8RjRVFJmPM3jT0kp JCDfIrjRsJpfvXBhoOEJMZ.Y6toWAjGIVGk4QUm2GLGtxZw-- Received: from [31.133.160.251] by web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:45:34 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, SGkgQXV0aG9ycywKCkFzIHN0YXRlZCBkdXJpbmcgdGhpcyBtb3JuaW5nJ3MgSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nLCBJIHdhbnRlZCB0byBzdWdnZXN0IGhhdmluZyBhbiBvcHRpb24gdG8gbm90IHVzZSBFTEkgdG8gaW5kaWNhdGUgRUwgYW5kIGp1c3Qgc2lnbmFsIGhhdmluZyBFTCB3aXRoIHRoZSBUdW5uZWwgTGFiZWwuIFNvIGV4aXN0ZW5jZSBvZiBFTCBiZWNvbWVzIGEgcHJvcGVydHkgb2YgdGhlIFR1bm5lbCBMYWJlbC4gVGhpcyB3b3VsZCByZWR1Y2UgbnVtYmVyIG9mIGxhYmVscyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2suCgoKVGhhbmsBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.733 Message-ID: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:45:34 -0800 From: "S. Davari" To: "mpls@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1024699347-1222848839-1415652334=:98541" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/T6s3AstmwGhEk56MoZqezotk9mo Subject: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "S. Davari" List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 20:45:36 -0000 --1024699347-1222848839-1415652334=:98541 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Authors, As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. Thanks Shahram --1024699347-1222848839-1415652334=:98541 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi Authors,

As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack.

Thanks
Shahram
--1024699347-1222848839-1415652334=:98541-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 14:57:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB551ACE93; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uS4LtaYx8PDu; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x232.google.com (mail-wg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CD0B1ACE28; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id z12so10112518wgg.9 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=4kQNRikaFlNuwBotqdgLn/990ofxi5muqrJBCTjzgNI=; b=NPpqq8pabeggPxa+q+HfHOWLEzS9XU60AkqVblpVuUX3foUaeACCjhW6aIkvUyfk92 OJVAoT/FBR2fG3ETTvdTptRXghpX8EL0z5kzfIE/Po1APxlJ/dnFYJPdM9rIoyRvJ8BP XqPP7IOQl/NB175K5YYpMucj3RbiE1a/vJrsVifG1tvuvtuWG3crS1VzVrrVUXBU3Kh6 81E0bNydV5r9mZ1b/aTYL8W2myvxE+tLBrPhDWDxuFxtu/liB4prNjCv8u6TyigzBiVR u0ObyBVW4jBqrXYF/NG6y6YpCPCnlaDjhE5+uehEcIu1ryHhxwZ8xwO/LGQpvTKVoONB KTkQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.13.20 with SMTP id eu20mr34633679wid.36.1415660231372; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.180.20.79 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:11 -0800 Message-ID: From: Greg Shepherd To: "bier@ietf.org" , "mboned@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , mpls@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043bdff836b6840507891565 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/NHRMsjKP2ByRBBHeH6WLt7pcEWY Subject: Re: [mpls] BIER BoF Today, w/ WebEx details X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:57:15 -0000 --f46d043bdff836b6840507891565 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Your WebEx session for IETF 91 has been scheduled. You should have just received an invitation in your email for this meeting; you should forward this information to your participants. Participants may also join from the http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/remote-participation.html. Note that remote participants will need to listen to the audio stream (linked from both http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/remote-participation.html and http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/91/) to follow the discussion. To claim the host role for your meeting, first join as a regular participant. Then, go to the participant menu at the top of the screen and choose "Claim Host Role." You will be prompted for the host key. Host Key: 684911 More information about WebEx may be found at http://www.ietf.org/wg/webex.html and http://www.ietf.org/wg/webex-hosting.pdf. Information about claiming the host role and running your WebEx meeting will also be found on the chairs' table at the front of the meeting room, and the host keys can be found at: http://www.ietf.org/private/webex-host-keys.html Best regards, Cindy On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Greg Shepherd wrote: > bier > Monday, November 10, 2014 > 1:00 pm | Hawaii Time (Honolulu, GMT-10:00) | 2 hr > > Join WebEx meeting: > > https://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/j.php?MTID=mdfb183b4cd0d2cfaeceacf3950895a00 > Meeting number: 825 308 148 > Meeting password: 1234 > > Looking forward to seeing (hearing) you all there! > > Cheers, > Greg > --f46d043bdff836b6840507891565 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your=C2=A0WebEx=C2=A0session for IETF 91 has been scheduled. You should have j= ust
received an invitation= in your email for this meeting; you should forward this
information to your participants. Participan= ts may also join from the
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/remote-participation.html.

Note that remote participants will need to listen to the audio st= ream (linked
from both=C2= =A0http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/remote-participation.html=C2=A0and
http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/91/) to follow the discussion.

To claim the host role for your meeting, first join as a = regular participant.
Then,= go to the participant menu at the top of the screen and choose "Claim=
Host Role." You will= be prompted for the host key.

Host Key: 68= 4911

More information about=C2=A0WebEx=C2=A0may = be found at
http://www.ietf.org/wg/webex.html=C2=A0and
http://ww= w.ietf.org/wg/webex-hosting.pdf.

Information about claiming the host role and running your=C2=A0WebEx<= /span>=C2=A0mee= ting will
<= span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">also be found on= the chairs' table at the front of the meeting room, and the
host keys can be found at:=C2=A0http://www.iet= f.org/private/webex-host-keys.html

Best regards,
Cindy

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Greg Shepherd <= gjshep@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
bier
Monday, November 10, 2014
1:00 pm | Hawaii Time (Honolulu, GMT-10:0= 0) | 2 hr
<= br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Join WebEx meeting:
https= ://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/j.php?MTID=3Dmdfb183b4cd0d2cfaeceacf395089= 5a00
Meeting number: 825 308 = 148
Meeting password: 1234=

Looking forward to = seeing (hearing) you all there!

Cheers,
Greg

--f46d043bdff836b6840507891565-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 15:00:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E43A1ACF99 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:00:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UL0e7dEoPJEi for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9064D1ACF6E for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.65]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id AA25FE23888EE; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:00:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70uwxchhub01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.48]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sAAN0SUc009110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:00:28 -0500 Received: from US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.12.84]) by US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.5.2.48]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:00:28 -0500 From: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" To: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" , "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) Thread-Index: AQHPtkReGJe0hsllSUWt55jdwggY6ZvXguRQgAXkqoCACAl2gIAC82twgAD6kwCABO68kIAAc50AgGXNedA= Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:00:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <53EA3666.2040004@pi.nu> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D94717BBC@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <9ace61def77942938bc577e4b6782680@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> , <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471CE50@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <7A384EF8-93FE-4157-8726-6B0F4DD3D47B@cisco.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471DC7F@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.5.27.16] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915US70UWXCHMBA04z_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/pAT2TLpHf_oflvyL94KauT6uF6U Cc: Ross Callon , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:00:48 -0000 --_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915US70UWXCHMBA04z_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rajiv, We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed the draft was updat= ed to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way to discover the = LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses. I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LDP mechanism which= is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we only needed to disc= over the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and no= t at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothing which is specific to the a= djacency here. The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the FEC and address ca= pability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preference for the control= plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent tha= t this would be overloaded to indicate FEC and address capability advertise= ment which is orthogonal to adjacency establishment. I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existing IPv6 capabilit= y described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, which is extension of= LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capabil= ity for the IPv6 addresses in that same draft if really required but I do n= ot think we needed to. There needs to be only one method to do one thing an= d draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability is the way to go for any IPv6 FEC r= elated =93session=94 capabilities. To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementations complying to th= is draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capabil= ity (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message ex= plicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the peer advertising = this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that = peer. There was one individual support for this proposal on this mailing list and= I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed. Regards, Mustapha. From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I second to Mustapha. We should use features for what they are designed for= . It is the SAC capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that d= efines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session,= which fits into the required inter-op solution organically. I do not consider explicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) i= n Initialization message can be seen as baggage. An implementation that doe= s not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization me= ssage anyways. Cheers, Pranjal -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (= Mustapha) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, I think the key point I am trying to convey is that we should keep the prot= ocol clean and use features for what they are designed for. LDP has its own= capability advertisement and it is meant to address issues like this one. Overloading the TR field of the initialization message means that a peer wi= ll have to check both the TR and the SAC to decide what to do for the IPv6 = prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SAC for all other FEC types.= This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protoc= ol. Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is not a baggage in the future= . This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP FECs and this is working f= ine today although many implementations now support these types of FECs. As for changing other drafts, we are simply talking about stating in draft-= ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP peer must set D-bit=3D0 in I= Pv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization message. Regards, Mustapha. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) > Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.i= etf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > wglc closed) > > Hi Mustapha, > > TR field is useful in case of dual-stack environment and using it for > determining whether the peer implementation is compliant (wrt handling > v6 address bindings and label bindings) is simple and straight forward. > > When v6-only peer implementations exist (and become a new norm), TR > field usage would become moot. And we wouldn't have to see them. A > very good thing, IMO. > > We need to think about how much of this baggage needs to carry over > when single- stack ipv6 networks become a new norm (like single-stack ipv= 4 has been). > > Given that this draft already has built-in means to accommodate the > RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so in a simple manner, it is > not necessary to require changing other drafts, IMO. > > > Cheers, > Raj > > > PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, and it would be wise to > dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advertised) in v6-only > environment with an option to change it. This is nothing different from c= urrent protocol machinery. > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" > > wrote: > > > > Hi Rajiv, > > See inline below for some follow-up. > > > > Regards, > > Mustapha. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:19 PM > >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org > >> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc closed) > >> > >> > >> If this draft were to address the interoperability with rfc5036 > >> non-compliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather > >> leverage the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of th= e version 13. > >> This TLV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedbac= k. > >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1. > >> 1 > > MA> It is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability > > MA> advertisement > role. LDP has its own capability advertisement mechanism and there is > no need to confuse implementations with the handling of two mechanisms. > > > >> The reason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP > >> Prefix capability > >> etc.) is 2-fold: > >> > >> - not forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now - > >> IPv6-only MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an > >> unnecessary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not > >> optimal, if not annoying) > > MA> IPv6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type > > MA> network. It will > support many types of FECs in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP > IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have > been designed for the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling > capabilities including FEC type support on a given session. > > > >> - not 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of > >> v6 address binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage > >> to a non-compliant peer)) > > MA> I think it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address > > MA> messages > and IPv6 prefix FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by > both peers. If however there is a use case for decoupling the > advertising of IPv6 addresses from > IPv6 FECs, then a separate capability can be devised for addresses but > I do not think we need it. > > > > > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Rajiv Asati > >> Distinguished Engineer, Cisco > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ross Callon > > >> Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM > >> To: Mustapha Aissaoui >, > >> "mpls@ietf.org" > > >> Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" >, > >> "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" > >> > > >> Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc > >> closed) > >> Resent-From: > > >> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro >, Rajiv Papneja > >> >, Rajiv Asa= ti >, Vishwas > >> Manral >, >, Loa Andersson > >> >, Ross Callon >, MARTIN VIGOUREUX > >> > > >> Resent-Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM > >> > >>>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to > >>>> this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>>> capability > >>>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> Speaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the > >>> right solution (noting that, in final text as would be published > >>> in an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalized)= . > >>> > >>> Thanks, Ross > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, > >>> Mustapha > >>> (Mustapha) > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM > >>> To: mpls@ietf.org > >>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>> (short wglc > >>> closed) > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> The following are the details of the issue we found and the > >>> proposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initi= al feedback. > >>> > >>> When an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in > >>> a LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which > >>> support this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4 > >>> LDP control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft, > >>> we have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of > >>> IPv6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring > >>> down the IPv4 LDP > session. > >>> > >>> In other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are > >>> compliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC > >>> 5036 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an > >>> LDP IPv4 > session. > >>> This is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack > >>> LDP IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have > >>> been working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years. > >>> > >>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this > >>> draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>> capability > >>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> This approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was > >>> introduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this > >>> does not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It > >>> just makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional > >>> to both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability > >>> during LDP session > initialization. > >>> > >>> We do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft > >>> and having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations > >>> across two drafts. > >>> > >>> We appreciate your comments on this matter. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mustapha. > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa > >>>> Andersson > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM > >>>> To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>; > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>>> Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >>>> wglc > >>>> closed) > >>>> > >>>> Working Group, > >>>> > >>>> During what we thought would be a short wglc on > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html > >>>> we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the dra= ft. > >>>> > >>>> The short working group last call is now closed! > >>>> > >>>> The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the > >>>> working group chairs and the draft authors. > >>>> > >>>> It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant > >>>> implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is > >>>> no detailed description of the exact problems. > >>>> > >>>> We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to > >>>> write-up the problem, either as > >>>> > >>>> - a new draft (preferred); or > >>>> - in a mail to the working group mailing list > >>>> > >>>> Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the > >>>> mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we > >>>> can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up > >>>> before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is. > >>>> > >>>> /Loa > >>>> for the working group chairs > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > >>>> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > >>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> mpls mailing list > >>>> mpls@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> mpls mailing list > >>> mpls@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915US70UWXCHMBA04z_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rajiv,

We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed th= e draft was updated to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way= to discover the LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses.

 

I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LD= P mechanism which is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we on= ly needed to discover the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and not at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothin= g which is specific to the adjacency here.

 

The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the F= EC and address capability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preferenc= e for the control plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent that this would be overloaded to indicate FEC a= nd address capability advertisement which is orthogonal to adjacency establ= ishment.

 

I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existi= ng IPv6 capability described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, = which is extension of LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capability for the IPv6 addresses in that sam= e draft if really required but I do not think we needed to. There needs to = be only one method to do one thing and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= is the way to go  for any IPv6 FEC related =93session=94 capabilities.

 

To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementation= s complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisemen= t control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 F= EC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6= addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.

 

There was one individual support for this proposal on this= mailing list and I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed.

 

Regards,

Mustapha.

 

From: Dutta, P= ranjal K (Pranjal)
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM
To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

 

I second to Mustaph= a. We should use features for what they are designed for. It is the SAC cap= ability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that defines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session, which= fits into the required inter-op solution organically.

 

I do not consider e= xplicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) in Initialization me= ssage can be seen as baggage. An implementation that does not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization mes= sage anyways.

 

Cheers,<= /span>

Pranjal<= /span>

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM
To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed)

 

Hi Rajiv,

I think the key point I am trying to convey is th= at we should keep the protocol clean and use features for what they are des= igned for. LDP has its own capability advertisement and it is meant to addr= ess issues like this one.

 

Overloading the TR field of the initialization me= ssage means that a peer will have to check both the TR and the SAC to decid= e what to do for the IPv6 prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SA= C for all other FEC types. This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protocol.=

 

Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is n= ot a baggage in the future. This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP = FECs and this is working fine today although many implementations now suppo= rt these types of FECs.

 

As for changing other drafts, we are simply talki= ng about stating in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP pee= r must set D-bit=3D0  in IPv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization mes= sage.

 

Regards,

Mustapha.

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [m= ailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM=

> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)=

> Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;

> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> wglc closed)

>

> Hi Mustapha,

>

> TR field is useful in case of dual-stack env= ironment and using it for

> determining whether the peer implementation = is compliant (wrt handling

> v6 address bindings and label bindings) is s= imple and straight forward.

>

> When v6-only peer implementations exist (and= become a new norm), TR

> field usage would become moot. And we wouldn= 't have to see them. A

> very good thing, IMO.

>

> We need to think about how much of this bagg= age needs to carry over

> when single- stack ipv6 networks become a ne= w norm (like single-stack ipv4 has been).

>

> Given that this draft already has built-in m= eans to accommodate the

> RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so = in a simple manner, it is

> not necessary to require changing other draf= ts, IMO.

>

>

> Cheers,

> Raj

>

>

> PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, = and it would be wise to

> dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advert= ised) in v6-only

> environment with an option to change it. Thi= s is nothing different from current protocol machinery.

>

>

> > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aiss= aoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)"

> <mu= stapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent .com> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Rajiv,

> > See inline below for some follow-up.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Mustapha.

> >

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:= 19 PM

> >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha= (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >> Cc: mpls-c= hairs@tools.ietf.org;

> >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

> >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> >> wglc closed)

> >>

> >>

> >> If this draft were to address the i= nteroperability with rfc5036

> >> non-co= mpliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather

> >> levera= ge the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of the version 1= 3.

> >> This T= LV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedback.

> >>

> >> http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1.

> >> 1=

> > MA> It = is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability

> > MA> adv= ertisement

> role. LDP has i= ts own capability advertisement mechanism and there is

> no need to conf= use implementations with the handling of two mechanisms.

> >=

> >> The re= ason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP

> >> Prefix= capability

> >> etc.) = is 2-fold:

> >>

> >> - not = forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now -

> >> IPv6-o= nly MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an

> >> unnece= ssary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not

> >> optima= l, if not annoying)

> > MA> IPv= 6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type

> > MA> net= work. It will

> support many ty= pes of FECs  in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP

> IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have

> been designed f= or the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling

> capabilities in= cluding FEC type support on a given session.

> >=

> >> - not = 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of

> >> v6 add= ress binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage

> >> to a n= on-compliant peer))

> > MA> I t= hink it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address

> > MA> mes= sages

> and IPv6 prefix= FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by

> both peers. If = however there is a use case for decoupling the

> advertising of = IPv6 addresses from

> IPv6 FECs, then= a separate capability can be devised for addresses but

> I do not think = we need it.

> >=

> >=

> >> Thanks= .

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >> Cheers= ,

> >> Rajiv = Asati

> >> Distin= guished Engineer, Cisco

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -----O= riginal Message-----

> >> From: = Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>

> >> Date: = Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM

> >> To: Mu= stapha Aissaoui <mustapha.aissaoui@al= catel-lucent.com>,

> >> "= mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>

> >> Cc: &q= uot;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" &l= t;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,

> >> "= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.o= rg"

> >> <draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org= >

> >> Subjec= t: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> >> wglc

> >> closed= )

> >> Resent= -From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.= org>

> >> Resent= -To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>= ;, Rajiv Papneja

> >> <rajiv.papneja@huawei.com>, Rajiv Asati &= lt;rajiva@cisco.com>, Vishwas

> >> Manral= <vishwas.manral@hp.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson

> >> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, MARTIN VIGOUREUX

> >> <= martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>

> >> Resent= -Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM

> >>

> >>>>= ; The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to

> >>>>= ; this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

> >>>>= ; capability

> >>>>= ; (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

> >>>>= ; message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

> >>>>= ; peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

> >>>>= ; addresses and FECs to that peer.

> >>>

> >>> Sp= eaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the

> >>> ri= ght solution (noting that, in final text as would be published

> >>> in= an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalize= d).

> >>>

> >>> Th= anks, Ross

> >>>

> >>> --= ---Original Message-----

> >>> Fr= om: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On B= ehalf Of Aissaoui,

> >>> Mu= stapha

> >>> (M= ustapha)

> >>> Se= nt: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM

> >>> To= : mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >>> Cc= : mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

> >>> Su= bject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

> >>> (s= hort wglc

> >>> cl= osed)

> >>>

> >>> De= ar all,

> >>> Th= e following are the details of the issue we found and the

> >>> pr= oposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initial feedb= ack.

> >>>

> >>> Wh= en an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in

> >>> a = LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which

> >>> su= pport this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4

> >>> LD= P control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft,

> >>> we= have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of

> >>> IP= v6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring

> >>> do= wn the IPv4 LDP

> session.

> >>>

> >>> In= other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are

> >>> co= mpliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC

> >>> 50= 36 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an

> >>> LD= P IPv4

> session.

> >>> Th= is is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack

> >>> LD= P IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have

> >>> be= en working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years.

> >>>

> >>> Th= e proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this

> >>> dr= aft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

> >>> ca= pability

> >>> (d= raft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

> >>> me= ssage explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

> >>> pe= er advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

> >>> ad= dresses and FECs to that peer.

> >>>

> >>> Th= is approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was

> >>> in= troduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this

> >>> do= es not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It

> >>> ju= st makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional

> >>> to= both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability

> >>> du= ring LDP session

> initialization.=

> >>>

> >>> We= do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft

> >>> an= d having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations

> >>> ac= ross two drafts.

> >>>

> >>> We= appreciate your comments on this matter.

> >>>

> >>> Re= gards,

> >>> Mu= stapha.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>= ; -----Original Message-----

> >>>>= ; From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Loa

> >>>>= ; Andersson

> >>>>= ; Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM

> >>>>= ; To: mpls@ietf.org<= /a>; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

> >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

> >>>>= ; Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> >>>>= ; wglc

> >>>>= ; closed)

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; Working Group,

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; During what we thought would be a short wglc on

> >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

> >>>>= ; http://www.ietf.org/m= ail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html

> >>>>= ; we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the draft.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; The short working group last call is now closed!

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the

> >>>>= ; working group chairs and the draft authors.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant

> >>>>= ; implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is

> >>>>= ; no detailed description of the exact problems.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to

> >>>>= ; write-up the problem, either as

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; - a new draft (preferred); or

> >>>>= ; - in a mail to the working group mailing list

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the

> >>>>= ; mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we

> >>>>= ; can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up

> >>>>= ; before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the

> >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; /Loa

> >>>>= ; for the working group chairs

> >>>>= ; --

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; Loa Andersson          =             &nb= sp; email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

> >>>>= ; Senior MPLS Expert         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    loa@pi.nu

> >>>>= ; Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 7= 39 81 21 64

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; _______________________________________________

> >>>>= ; mpls mailing list

> >>>>= ; mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >>>>= ; https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

> >>>

> >>> __= _____________________________________________

> >>> mp= ls mailing list

> >>> mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >>> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

> >=

 

____________________= ___________________________

mpls mailing list

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--_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915US70UWXCHMBA04z_-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 15:55:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C8E1AD0C8 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:55:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z_pialmTqBWh for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 943281A86FC for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:55:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4504; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415663712; x=1416873312; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=ThSzu8Y/jC/zilL+B8rORL+eeVNWutaYukDj/KMq9a0=; b=FrWR/R8RsDzMd5/WUFuCrg+WydsL+S1WoE63cwOBdVI5fqhoaiYzjK+U Wor8u4ORJxaup0bzbJ8DiklCFy4s5sKsimbB4ARbgahGI9pQ31C0xWdSm YRF9/T31FGOGPDy/drkiRtDYJLS75FItHgnv0GyO+KE1zkIMt6OYQCZZZ 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AggIAOdPYVStJA2J/2dsb2JhbABcgkgjI1RZBIMCuCaQTgEJh08CHIEEFgEBAQEBfYQDAQEEAQEBIEsLEAIBCAQ7AwICAiULEwERAgQOBYgsAxIBDLZwliMBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBI5cgjkHgnc2gR4FhSAFimmCI4loggyPb4Zxg3psgUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,356,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="367923746" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Nov 2014 23:55:11 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAANtA7V005441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:55:10 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:55:10 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "S. Davari" Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdO71lx7DCVnUuFiY9m5bxh4Zxa7c2A Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:55:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.82.223.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DD9FC365C33941D0B97B92463D5E0203ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/cZxBqxbFCyYyxb1kpWTPysuOJLA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:55:13 -0000 --_000_DD9FC365C33941D0B97B92463D5E0203ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:48:54 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , "S. Davari" Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdOB2dB6Mi9SUKwthWxxDb/2Jxa7cuA//+pVDA= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 00:48:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.86.171] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F522F42xmbalnx01ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Ks2ZsSAWTWriBb9HQf2SDlaRZjg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 00:48:57 -0000 --_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F522F42xmbalnx01ciscoc_ 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPGJyPg0KbXBscyBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3Q8YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86bXBsc0BpZXRmLm9yZyI+bXBsc0BpZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48 YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL21wbHMi Pmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbXBsczwvYT48bzpwPjwvbzpw PjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFs Ij48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4N CjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F522F42xmbalnx01ciscoc_-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 10:03:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB1E1A0107 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:03:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SeO-YlFgViDk for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF3001A00F2 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.100.31] (unknown [199.68.254.218]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0FD80180110A; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:03:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:03:26 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "S. Davari" , "mpls@ietf.org" References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/hEmnR-THXKENxUl_SAx8uisT4Pc Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:03:32 -0000 Sharam, Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? /Loa On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: > Hi Authors, > > As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having > an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with > the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel > Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. > > Thanks > Shahram > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:15:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1352A1A6FAC for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:15:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lGxLmn6U0-h3 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.63]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D541A6FC7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:15:19 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,362,1413270000"; d="scan'208";a="50414485" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 11 Nov 2014 11:41:05 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.8) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:15:14 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:15:16 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: Loa Andersson , "S. Davari" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdOoy+qA/b080yu8bYAxX7RVZxcP2IA//+NuHA= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:15:16 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/sX9s09JMuV1NybUR1CSMcNmnZwA Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:15:21 -0000 Hi Loa, It should be applicable to entropy label in general.=20 Thanks Shahram -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Sharam, Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? /Loa On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: > Hi Authors, > > As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having > an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with > the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel > Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. > > Thanks > Shahram > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:27:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20C71A87A3 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:27:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Yz6t6Z6-wpr for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0711.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::711]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81D841A8765 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.202.141) by BLUPR05MB563.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.202.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:26:53 +0000 Received: from BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.202.141]) by BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.202.141]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:26:53 +0000 From: John E Drake To: Shahram Davari Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdMtc0p+zypVkKlx1l13p2E8ZxbuUUAgAAUEgCAAAM/3w== Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:26:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1D62FDD7-7648-4761-B80B-1F65FF47120F@juniper.net> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2001:67c:370:160:11b6:37ba:de87:53dc] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; x-forefront-prvs: 0392679D18 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377424004)(13464003)(24454002)(189002)(199003)(377454003)(51704005)(54356999)(86362001)(82746002)(4396001)(76176999)(50986999)(15975445006)(120916001)(230783001)(19580395003)(20776003)(19580405001)(106116001)(99396003)(110136001)(105586002)(64706001)(21056001)(106356001)(107046002)(92726001)(95666004)(99286002)(92566001)(87936001)(31966008)(83716003)(101416001)(2656002)(33656002)(97736003)(36756003)(46102003)(122556002)(40100003)(62966003)(77156002)(104396001)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; H:BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PkHvC931NJSrtngz-dhJdE6hmMg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:27:34 -0000 Shahram, Given that not all ingresses support EL and that there is no signaling betw= een a given ingress and the egress regarding EL, how is the egress to know = whether a given packet contains an EL? Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >=20 > Hi Loa, >=20 > It should be applicable to entropy label in general.=20 >=20 > Thanks > Shahram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM > To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label >=20 > Sharam, >=20 > Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- > spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? >=20 > /Loa >=20 >> On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: >> Hi Authors, >>=20 >> As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having >> an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with >> the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel >> Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. >>=20 >> Thanks >> Shahram >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:32:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6201A6F29 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:32:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id troDxIQcUCOL for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:32:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A08701A1A27 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.167.213] (dhcp-a7d5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.167.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7EFD5180110A; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:32:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54626464.1000505@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:32:52 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shahram Davari , "S. Davari" , "mpls@ietf.org" References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/YR9Z_Zp3wvYhrO08vbtwkajCI3M Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:32:55 -0000 Sharam, Then it is not a discussion that is hinged on the draft-kini-mpls- spring-entropy-label. I will now go ahead and start the wg adoption poll on the draft. /Loa On 2014-11-11 20:15, Shahram Davari wrote: > Hi Loa, > > It should be applicable to entropy label in general. > > Thanks > Shahram > > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM > To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label > > Sharam, > > Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- > spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? > > /Loa > > On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: >> Hi Authors, >> >> As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having >> an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with >> the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel >> Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. >> >> Thanks >> Shahram >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:36:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BF41A7000 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kgw8o8N-KM6M for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68591A0070 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:16 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,362,1413270000"; d="scan'208";a="50272352" Received: from irvexchcas08.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.57]) by mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 11 Nov 2014 11:42:27 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.14) by IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:16 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:22 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: Loa Andersson , "S. Davari" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdOoy+qA/b080yu8bYAxX7RVZxcP2IA//+NuHCAAItEAP//eidg Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:36:18 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7641C@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <54626464.1000505@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54626464.1000505@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/A5eWWm01p3k5ebUtHs5o-6iQL1I Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:36:18 -0000 Hi Loa, Although it is a general comment, but it is more exemplified in this draft = since it proposes adding multiple EL in the stack making the stack very lar= ge. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:33 AM To: Shahram Davari; S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Sharam, Then it is not a discussion that is hinged on the draft-kini-mpls- spring-entropy-label. I will now go ahead and start the wg adoption poll on the draft. /Loa On 2014-11-11 20:15, Shahram Davari wrote: > Hi Loa, > > It should be applicable to entropy label in general. > > Thanks > Shahram > > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM > To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label > > Sharam, > > Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- > spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? > > /Loa > > On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: >> Hi Authors, >> >> As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having >> an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with >> the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel >> Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. >> >> Thanks >> Shahram >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:46:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619B61A87E7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:46:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mpKsMzWRrVgP for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81FF71A1B7D for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.167.213] (dhcp-a7d5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.167.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E19FD1801568; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:46:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:46:29 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fRZG-TYOVKXw7eSsEO6ayXDRiVo Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:46:37 -0000 Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label as an MPLS working group document. Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not be adopted as a working group document. There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed had an IPR disclosure. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. This poll ends November 25, 2014. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:47:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26091A88DE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:47:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E-xuPaF8i3fU for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922921A8851 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,362,1413270000"; d="scan'208";a="50273291" Received: from irvexchcas08.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.57]) by mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 11 Nov 2014 11:53:12 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.12) by IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:47:01 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:47:04 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: John E Drake Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdOoy+qA/b080yu8bYAxX7RVZxcP2IA//+NuHCAAImXAP//fvkw Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:47:03 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D764C3@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1D62FDD7-7648-4761-B80B-1F65FF47120F@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <1D62FDD7-7648-4761-B80B-1F65FF47120F@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/sinTpxuzXDy6OC2A6ImAY2EV_kI Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:47:07 -0000 HI John, We could add the EL presence to the Label distribution signaling, similar t= o PW FAT label. I think adding an EL indicator to the signaling is prefer= red compared to increasing the Label stack depth. Thx Shahram -----Original Message----- From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:27 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: Loa Andersson; S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Shahram, Given that not all ingresses support EL and that there is no signaling betw= een a given ingress and the egress regarding EL, how is the egress to know = whether a given packet contains an EL? Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >=20 > Hi Loa, >=20 > It should be applicable to entropy label in general.=20 >=20 > Thanks > Shahram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM > To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label >=20 > Sharam, >=20 > Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- > spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? >=20 > /Loa >=20 >> On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: >> Hi Authors, >>=20 >> As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest having >> an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with >> the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel >> Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. >>=20 >> Thanks >> Shahram >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:51:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8DF1A898E for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:51:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.006 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.006 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8E5m_LwpWK1X for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B61F71A88EC for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLN20614; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:20 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.18]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 03:51:14 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Shahram Davari , Loa Andersson , "S. Davari" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdOTrNC+t1hpkmsxL22D/lF2JxbMykAgAAUEgCAAATrAIAAAPUAgACG+RA= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CC558@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <54626464.1000505@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7641C@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7641C@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.144.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ccuW3EIGmTBwjubQXOYFtCEXRbk Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:27 -0000 U0QsDQoNCkRpZCB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBpbnRyb2R1Y2UgYW4gRUwtc3BlY2lmaWMgbmVnb3RpYXRp b24gbWVjaGFuaXNtIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIGluZ3Jlc3MgYW5kIHRoZSBlZ3Jlc3Mgb2YgYSBnaXZl biBMU1AsIGkuZS4sIHRoZSBlZ3Jlc3Mgbm90aWZpZXMgdGhlIGluZ3Jlc3Mgb2YgaXRzIEVMQyB3 aGlsZSB0aGUgaW5ncmVzcyBpbmZvcm1zIHRoZSBlZ3Jlc3MgdGhhdCBpdCB3b3VsZCBpbnNlcnQg YW4gRUwgb24gdGhhdCBMU1A/IA0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpYaWFvaHUNCg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+ 1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IG1wbHMgW21haWx0bzptcGxzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6 se0gU2hhaHJhbSBEYXZhcmkNCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOoxMdTCMTLI1SAzOjM2DQrK1bz+yMs6 IExvYSBBbmRlcnNzb247IFMuIERhdmFyaTsgbXBsc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogUmU6IFttcGxz XSBjb21tbmV0cyBvbiBkcmFmdC1raW5pLW1wbHMtc3ByaW5nLWVudHJvcHktbGFiZWwNCg0KSGkg 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Y2suDQo+Pg0KPj4gVGhhbmtzDQo+PiBTaGFocmFtDQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiBtcGxzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K Pj4gbXBsc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9tcGxzDQo+Pg0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXw0KPiBtcGxzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBtcGxzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbXBscw0KPg0KDQotLSANCg0KDQpMb2EgQW5k ZXJzc29uICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZW1haWw6IGxvYUBtYWlsMDEuaHVhd2VpLmNv bQ0KU2VuaW9yIE1QTFMgRXhwZXJ0ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBsb2FAcGkubnUN Ckh1YXdlaSBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgKGNvbnN1bHRhbnQpICAgICBwaG9uZTogKzQ2IDczOSA4MSAy MSA2NA0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0K bXBscyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm1wbHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbXBscw0K From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:51:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E4F1A89AA for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:51:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSAHanDEoHxe for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0125.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.125]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 943681A89AD for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.202.141) by BLUPR05MB564.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.202.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:40 +0000 Received: from BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.202.141]) by BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.202.141]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:40 +0000 From: John E Drake To: Shahram Davari Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdMtc0p+zypVkKlx1l13p2E8ZxbuUUAgAAUEgCAAAM/34AABaOAgAABSYo= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:39 +0000 Message-ID: <8F9EB46B-74FB-4AA6-B9A4-3ACBC42D13EA@juniper.net> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1D62FDD7-7648-4761-B80B-1F65FF47120F@juniper.net>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D764C3@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D764C3@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.161.51] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB564; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB564; x-forefront-prvs: 0392679D18 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(377424004)(377454003)(24454002)(189002)(199003)(13464003)(64706001)(20776003)(66066001)(33656002)(19580405001)(101416001)(19580395003)(36756003)(83716003)(54356999)(92726001)(86362001)(4396001)(50986999)(15975445006)(92566001)(82746002)(2656002)(31966008)(97736003)(99286002)(95666004)(110136001)(62966003)(77156002)(99396003)(21056001)(230783001)(122556002)(87936001)(120916001)(76176999)(40100003)(93886004)(107046002)(105586002)(46102003)(106116001)(106356001)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR05MB564; H:BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/As8ajtBNK0N4lnEIXp1V0j5EkHE Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:51:53 -0000 We are dealing w/ mp2p and there is no way to identify the ingress. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >=20 > HI John, >=20 > We could add the EL presence to the Label distribution signaling, similar= to PW FAT label. I think adding an EL indicator to the signaling is pref= erred compared to increasing the Label stack depth. >=20 > Thx > Shahram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:27 AM > To: Shahram Davari > Cc: Loa Andersson; S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label >=20 > Shahram, >=20 > Given that not all ingresses support EL and that there is no signaling be= tween a given ingress and the egress regarding EL, how is the egress to kno= w whether a given packet contains an EL? >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Loa, >>=20 >> It should be applicable to entropy label in general.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks >> Shahram >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM >> To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label >>=20 >> Sharam, >>=20 >> Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- >> spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? >>=20 >> /Loa >>=20 >>> On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: >>> Hi Authors, >>>=20 >>> As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest havin= g >>> an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with >>> the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel >>> Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>> Shahram >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpls mailing list >>> mpls@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:17:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C941A8AFE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mmYvovRzxfzf for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.63]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371771A90B0 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:16:23 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,362,1413270000"; d="scan'208";a="50419933" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 11 Nov 2014 12:42:14 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS04.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.10) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:16:22 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS04.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:16:25 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: John E Drake Thread-Topic: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHP/SdOoy+qA/b080yu8bYAxX7RVZxcP2IA//+NuHCAAImXAP//fvkwgACH9ID//4AbUA== Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:16:24 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7663B@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <1415652334.98541.YahooMailNeo@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <54624F6E.3040606@pi.nu>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7622E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1D62FDD7-7648-4761-B80B-1F65FF47120F@juniper.net>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D764C3@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <8F9EB46B-74FB-4AA6-B9A4-3ACBC42D13EA@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <8F9EB46B-74FB-4AA6-B9A4-3ACBC42D13EA@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/V5IOSyv2ZVVJ4UwB28EWMSbWNLA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:17:48 -0000 I see. Seems that in MP2P case ELI is required. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:52 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: Loa Andersson; S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label We are dealing w/ mp2p and there is no way to identify the ingress. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >=20 > HI John, >=20 > We could add the EL presence to the Label distribution signaling, similar= to PW FAT label. I think adding an EL indicator to the signaling is pref= erred compared to increasing the Label stack depth. >=20 > Thx > Shahram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:27 AM > To: Shahram Davari > Cc: Loa Andersson; S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label >=20 > Shahram, >=20 > Given that not all ingresses support EL and that there is no signaling be= tween a given ingress and the egress regarding EL, how is the egress to kno= w whether a given packet contains an EL? >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Loa, >>=20 >> It should be applicable to entropy label in general.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks >> Shahram >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:03 AM >> To: S. Davari; mpls@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [mpls] commnets on draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label >>=20 >> Sharam, >>=20 >> Is this something that you think is applicabel to draft-kini-mpls- >> spring-entropy-label only or to entropy labels in general? >>=20 >> /Loa >>=20 >>> On 2014-11-10 21:45, S. Davari wrote: >>> Hi Authors, >>>=20 >>> As stated during this morning's IETF meeting, I wanted to suggest havin= g >>> an option to not use ELI to indicate EL and just signal having EL with >>> the Tunnel Label. So existence of EL becomes a property of the Tunnel >>> Label. This would reduce number of labels in the stack. >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>> Shahram >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpls mailing list >>> mpls@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:28:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AFF1A880E for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:28:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iYW4lVBoLYWE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-x22e.google.com (mail-qg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE43A1A8A5F for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id i50so7739408qgf.19 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=OyTOqyOmtN/fSpQ8Vg8bd9yslyxxT0WiElvaubtnVpA=; b=AwedEDIUruEIGIsR8Jg+cdbbViI5tQeuSNnpseBOW2VW8j7Xrjw2E5czWNMlW8Y8AY m8DfZ7OC83qHnD9B2xGUfn/wiSd8UHi7esEFK8uwZhWt9kkgNe+zDTwMeRrs5kixgpBc eBO6/fFAI1A++rAmjTRwsKOC243x0OnFN5qI+SXdkVNB1vQ/BDEJyLkJTmga6rO4ZKdI 31GM3O268cLR2ExKIhOknwZlwFDJZ8rjp4JZE1CZt1pgAT64zN5xJgXWVBi2aXaGVplv yRy270C5pPGB6jSEmfpLQ4yS491yWMANZPRWhZebrIb/M/z3FMXM6lY3KyHivPBKJBLt h/ww== X-Received: by 10.140.27.194 with SMTP id 60mr51733360qgx.57.1415737715049; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.89.133 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:28:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:28:14 -1000 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1306899ca7705079b1f0d Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Pu2OrrLlFvHzO9u2Ot6mTznaEus Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:50 -0000 --001a11c1306899ca7705079b1f0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Loa, This is a well-supported draft with useful functionality, it should be a WG draft. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. > > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing > list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. > > However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than > one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the > document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed > had an IPR disclosure. > > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > This poll ends November 25, 2014. > > /Loa > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --001a11c1306899ca7705079b1f0d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Loa,

This is a well-supported draft wit= h useful functionality, it should be a WG draft.

C= heers,
Andy

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu&g= t; wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label as an MPLS working group docume= nt.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls= @ietf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document.

The authors has all stated on the working group mailing
list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft.

However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than
one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the
document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed<= br> had an IPR disclosure.

However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
this is now.

This poll ends November 25, 2014.

/Loa
--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739= 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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--001a11c1306899ca7705079b1f0d-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:30:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3561A908A for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:30:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KYc4QmAEgPPX for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:29:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F9E81A88B2 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.65]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 11BE27AB64F5B; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:29:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70twxchhub03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.35]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sABKTqkl020732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:29:52 -0500 Received: from SG70XWXCHHUB02.zap.alcatel-lucent.com (135.253.2.47) by US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:29:51 -0500 Received: from SG70YWXCHMBA08.zap.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.8.137]) by SG70XWXCHHUB02.zap.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.253.2.47]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 04:29:46 +0800 From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" To: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" , "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) Thread-Index: AQHPtkReW5ZYZDudTUC1XfMcEOSFO5vXguRQgAXkqoCACAl2gIAC82twgAD6kwCABO68kIAAJfpggGwN3oCAAeX6YA== Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:29:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <53EA3666.2040004@pi.nu> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D94717BBC@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <9ace61def77942938bc577e4b6782680@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> , <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471CE50@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <7A384EF8-93FE-4157-8726-6B0F4DD3D47B@cisco.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471DC7F@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.253.19.16] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D1555SG70YWXCHMBA08zap_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/HdI921B0Zid9Gg52SLoagTYICMo Cc: Ross Callon , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:30:06 -0000 --_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D1555SG70YWXCHMBA08zap_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had raised similar concerns earlier. Hacking up =93per adjacency specific= =94 Dual-stack TLV to mean for =93session-level=94 IPV6 FEC and Address cap= abilities is completely wrong thing to do. 1. Dual stack TLV is sent per Hello adjacency on an interface and its = purpose is bootstrapping LDP session. There could be multiple interface/adj= acencies with a peering session. The capability in question is a session le= vel capability and not per hello adjacency on an interface. Hacking up an a= djacency level TLV to negotiate IPV6 session capabilities is a complete di= sconnect. 2. LDP session capability framework is defined in RFC 5561. There is a= n already defined method in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability (SAC Capab= ilities) which is based on RFC 5561 to negotiate IPV6 FEC Capabilities in a= n LDP session. Currently SAC Capabilities limit to explicit advertisement o= f do_not_support =3D -ve case only. Just adding the following clause into S= AC Capability include the +ve case (explicit support) is a generic way and = time-tested solution. =93Implementations complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix s= tate advertisement control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= ) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6= FEC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IP= v6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.=94 It does not make sense for an implementation to hack an adjacen= cy level TLV (Dual Stack TLV which was introduced for a complete different = purpose) for the +ve case and then use IPV6 SAC Capabilities for =96ve cas= e). There needs to be only one way to fulfill one specific purpose. I am su= rprised too to see such kind of proposals in a Standards track item which i= s likely to exist for many years. Thanks, Pranjal From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 3:00 PM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls= -ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed the draft was updat= ed to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way to discover the = LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses. I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LDP mechanism which= is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we only needed to disc= over the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and no= t at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothing which is specific to the a= djacency here. The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the FEC and address ca= pability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preference for the control= plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent tha= t this would be overloaded to indicate FEC and address capability advertise= ment which is orthogonal to adjacency establishment. I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existing IPv6 capabilit= y described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, which is extension of= LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capabil= ity for the IPv6 addresses in that same draft if really required but I do n= ot think we needed to. There needs to be only one method to do one thing an= d draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability is the way to go for any IPv6 FEC r= elated =93session=94 capabilities. To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementations complying to th= is draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capabil= ity (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message ex= plicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the peer advertising = this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that = peer. There was one individual support for this proposal on this mailing list and= I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed. Regards, Mustapha. From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I second to Mustapha. We should use features for what they are designed for= . It is the SAC capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that d= efines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session,= which fits into the required inter-op solution organically. I do not consider explicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) i= n Initialization message can be seen as baggage. An implementation that doe= s not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization me= ssage anyways. Cheers, Pranjal -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (= Mustapha) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, I think the key point I am trying to convey is that we should keep the prot= ocol clean and use features for what they are designed for. LDP has its own= capability advertisement and it is meant to address issues like this one. Overloading the TR field of the initialization message means that a peer wi= ll have to check both the TR and the SAC to decide what to do for the IPv6 = prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SAC for all other FEC types.= This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protoc= ol. Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is not a baggage in the future= . This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP FECs and this is working f= ine today although many implementations now support these types of FECs. As for changing other drafts, we are simply talking about stating in draft-= ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP peer must set D-bit=3D0 in I= Pv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization message. Regards, Mustapha. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) > Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.i= etf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > wglc closed) > > Hi Mustapha, > > TR field is useful in case of dual-stack environment and using it for > determining whether the peer implementation is compliant (wrt handling > v6 address bindings and label bindings) is simple and straight forward. > > When v6-only peer implementations exist (and become a new norm), TR > field usage would become moot. And we wouldn't have to see them. A > very good thing, IMO. > > We need to think about how much of this baggage needs to carry over > when single- stack ipv6 networks become a new norm (like single-stack ipv= 4 has been). > > Given that this draft already has built-in means to accommodate the > RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so in a simple manner, it is > not necessary to require changing other drafts, IMO. > > > Cheers, > Raj > > > PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, and it would be wise to > dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advertised) in v6-only > environment with an option to change it. This is nothing different from c= urrent protocol machinery. > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" > > wrote: > > > > Hi Rajiv, > > See inline below for some follow-up. > > > > Regards, > > Mustapha. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:19 PM > >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org > >> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc closed) > >> > >> > >> If this draft were to address the interoperability with rfc5036 > >> non-compliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather > >> leverage the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of th= e version 13. > >> This TLV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedbac= k. > >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1. > >> 1 > > MA> It is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability > > MA> advertisement > role. LDP has its own capability advertisement mechanism and there is > no need to confuse implementations with the handling of two mechanisms. > > > >> The reason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP > >> Prefix capability > >> etc.) is 2-fold: > >> > >> - not forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now - > >> IPv6-only MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an > >> unnecessary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not > >> optimal, if not annoying) > > MA> IPv6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type > > MA> network. It will > support many types of FECs in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP > IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have > been designed for the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling > capabilities including FEC type support on a given session. > > > >> - not 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of > >> v6 address binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage > >> to a non-compliant peer)) > > MA> I think it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address > > MA> messages > and IPv6 prefix FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by > both peers. If however there is a use case for decoupling the > advertising of IPv6 addresses from > IPv6 FECs, then a separate capability can be devised for addresses but > I do not think we need it. > > > > > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Rajiv Asati > >> Distinguished Engineer, Cisco > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ross Callon > > >> Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM > >> To: Mustapha Aissaoui >, > >> "mpls@ietf.org" > > >> Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" >, > >> "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" > >> > > >> Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc > >> closed) > >> Resent-From: > > >> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro >, Rajiv Papneja > >> >, Rajiv Asa= ti >, Vishwas > >> Manral >, >, Loa Andersson > >> >, Ross Callon >, MARTIN VIGOUREUX > >> > > >> Resent-Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM > >> > >>>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to > >>>> this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>>> capability > >>>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> Speaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the > >>> right solution (noting that, in final text as would be published > >>> in an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalized)= . > >>> > >>> Thanks, Ross > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, > >>> Mustapha > >>> (Mustapha) > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM > >>> To: mpls@ietf.org > >>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>> (short wglc > >>> closed) > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> The following are the details of the issue we found and the > >>> proposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initi= al feedback. > >>> > >>> When an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in > >>> a LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which > >>> support this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4 > >>> LDP control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft, > >>> we have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of > >>> IPv6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring > >>> down the IPv4 LDP > session. > >>> > >>> In other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are > >>> compliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC > >>> 5036 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an > >>> LDP IPv4 > session. > >>> This is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack > >>> LDP IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have > >>> been working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years. > >>> > >>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this > >>> draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>> capability > >>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> This approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was > >>> introduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this > >>> does not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It > >>> just makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional > >>> to both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability > >>> during LDP session > initialization. > >>> > >>> We do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft > >>> and having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations > >>> across two drafts. > >>> > >>> We appreciate your comments on this matter. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mustapha. > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa > >>>> Andersson > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM > >>>> To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>; > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>>> Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >>>> wglc > >>>> closed) > >>>> > >>>> Working Group, > >>>> > >>>> During what we thought would be a short wglc on > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html > >>>> we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the dra= ft. > >>>> > >>>> The short working group last call is now closed! > >>>> > >>>> The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the > >>>> working group chairs and the draft authors. > >>>> > >>>> It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant > >>>> implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is > >>>> no detailed description of the exact problems. > >>>> > >>>> We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to > >>>> write-up the problem, either as > >>>> > >>>> - a new draft (preferred); or > >>>> - in a mail to the working group mailing list > >>>> > >>>> Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the > >>>> mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we > >>>> can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up > >>>> before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is. > >>>> > >>>> /Loa > >>>> for the working group chairs > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > >>>> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > >>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> mpls mailing list > >>>> mpls@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> mpls mailing list > >>> mpls@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D1555SG70YWXCHMBA08zap_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I had raised similar concerns earlier. = Hacking up =93per adjacency specific=94 Dual-stack TLV to mean for =93sessi= on-level=94 IPV6 FEC and Address capabilities is completely wrong thing to do.

 

1= .   &= nbsp;  Dual stack TLV is sent per Hell= o adjacency on an interface and its purpose is bootstrapping LDP session. T= here could be multiple interface/adjacencies with a peering session. The capability in question is a session level capability and not = per hello adjacency on an interface. Hacking up an adjacency level TLV to n= egotiate  IPV6 session capabilities is a complete disconnect.

 

2= .   &= nbsp;  LDP session capability framewor= k is defined in RFC 5561. There is an already defined method in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability (SAC Capabilities)= which is based on RFC 5561 to negotiate IPV6 FEC Capabilities in an LDP se= ssion. Currently SAC Capabilities limit to explicit advertisement of do_not_support =3D -ve case only. Just adding the following clause into= SAC Capability include the +ve case (explicit support) is a generic wa= y and time-tested solution.

 

=93Implementations complying to= this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capa= bility (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message  explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the = peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and I= Pv6 FECs to that peer.=94

 

      &nb= sp;     It does not make sense for an implementation to= hack an adjacency level TLV (Dual Stack TLV which was introduced for a com= plete different purpose)  for the +ve case and then use IPV6 SAC Capabilities for =96ve case). There needs to be= only one way to fulfill one specific purpose. I am surprised too to see su= ch kind of proposals in a Standards track item which is likely to exist for= many years.

 

Thanks,

Pranjal

 

From: Aissaoui= , Mustapha (Mustapha)
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 3:00 PM
To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

 

Hi Rajiv,

We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed th= e draft was updated to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way= to discover the LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses.

 

I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LD= P mechanism which is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we on= ly needed to discover the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and not at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothin= g which is specific to the adjacency here.

 

The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the F= EC and address capability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preferenc= e for the control plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent that this would be overloaded to indicate FEC a= nd address capability advertisement which is orthogonal to adjacency establ= ishment.

 

I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existi= ng IPv6 capability described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, = which is extension of LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capability for the IPv6 addresses in that sam= e draft if really required but I do not think we needed to. There needs to = be only one method to do one thing and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= is the way to go  for any IPv6 FEC related =93session=94 capabilities.

 

To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementation= s complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisemen= t control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 F= EC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6= addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.

 

There was one individual support for this proposal on this= mailing list and I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed.

 

Regards,

Mustapha.

 

From: Dutta, P= ranjal K (Pranjal)
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM
To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

 

I second to Mustaph= a. We should use features for what they are designed for. It is the SAC cap= ability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that defines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session, which= fits into the required inter-op solution organically.

 

I do not consider e= xplicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) in Initialization me= ssage can be seen as baggage. An implementation that does not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization mes= sage anyways.

 

Cheers,<= /span>

Pranjal<= /span>

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM
To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed)

 

Hi Rajiv,

I think the key point I am trying to convey is th= at we should keep the protocol clean and use features for what they are des= igned for. LDP has its own capability advertisement and it is meant to addr= ess issues like this one.

 

Overloading the TR field of the initialization me= ssage means that a peer will have to check both the TR and the SAC to decid= e what to do for the IPv6 prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SA= C for all other FEC types. This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protocol.=

 

Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is n= ot a baggage in the future. This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP = FECs and this is working fine today although many implementations now suppo= rt these types of FECs.

 

As for changing other drafts, we are simply talki= ng about stating in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP pee= r must set D-bit=3D0  in IPv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization mes= sage.

 

Regards,

Mustapha.

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [m= ailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM=

> To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)=

> Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;

> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> wglc closed)

>

> Hi Mustapha,

>

> TR field is useful in case of dual-stack env= ironment and using it for

> determining whether the peer implementation = is compliant (wrt handling

> v6 address bindings and label bindings) is s= imple and straight forward.

>

> When v6-only peer implementations exist (and= become a new norm), TR

> field usage would become moot. And we wouldn= 't have to see them. A

> very good thing, IMO.

>

> We need to think about how much of this bagg= age needs to carry over

> when single- stack ipv6 networks become a ne= w norm (like single-stack ipv4 has been).

>

> Given that this draft already has built-in m= eans to accommodate the

> RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so = in a simple manner, it is

> not necessary to require changing other draf= ts, IMO.

>

>

> Cheers,

> Raj

>

>

> PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, = and it would be wise to

> dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advert= ised) in v6-only

> environment with an option to change it. Thi= s is nothing different from current protocol machinery.

>

>

> > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aiss= aoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)"

> <mu= stapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent .com> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Rajiv,

> > See inline below for some follow-up.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Mustapha.

> >

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:= 19 PM

> >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha= (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >> Cc: mpls-c= hairs@tools.ietf.org;

> >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

> >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> >> wglc closed)

> >>

> >>

> >> If this draft were to address the i= nteroperability with rfc5036

> >> non-co= mpliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather

> >> levera= ge the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of the version 1= 3.

> >> This T= LV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedback.

> >>

> >> http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1.

> >> 1=

> > MA> It = is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability

> > MA> adv= ertisement

> role. LDP has i= ts own capability advertisement mechanism and there is

> no need to conf= use implementations with the handling of two mechanisms.

> >=

> >> The re= ason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP

> >> Prefix= capability

> >> etc.) = is 2-fold:

> >>

> >> - not = forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now -

> >> IPv6-o= nly MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an

> >> unnece= ssary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not

> >> optima= l, if not annoying)

> > MA> IPv= 6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type

> > MA> net= work. It will

> support many ty= pes of FECs  in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP

> IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have

> been designed f= or the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling

> capabilities in= cluding FEC type support on a given session.

> >=

> >> - not = 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of

> >> v6 add= ress binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage

> >> to a n= on-compliant peer))

> > MA> I t= hink it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address

> > MA> mes= sages

> and IPv6 prefix= FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by

> both peers. If = however there is a use case for decoupling the

> advertising of = IPv6 addresses from

> IPv6 FECs, then= a separate capability can be devised for addresses but

> I do not think = we need it.

> >=

> >=

> >> Thanks= .

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >> Cheers= ,

> >> Rajiv = Asati

> >> Distin= guished Engineer, Cisco

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -----O= riginal Message-----

> >> From: = Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>

> >> Date: = Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM

> >> To: Mu= stapha Aissaoui <mustapha.aissaoui@al= catel-lucent.com>,

> >> "= mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>

> >> Cc: &q= uot;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" &l= t;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,

> >> "= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.o= rg"

> >> <draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org= >

> >> Subjec= t: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> >> wglc

> >> closed= )

> >> Resent= -From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.= org>

> >> Resent= -To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>= ;, Rajiv Papneja

> >> <rajiv.papneja@huawei.com>, Rajiv Asati &= lt;rajiva@cisco.com>, Vishwas

> >> Manral= <vishwas.manral@hp.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson

> >> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, MARTIN VIGOUREUX

> >> <= martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>

> >> Resent= -Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM

> >>

> >>>>= ; The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to

> >>>>= ; this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

> >>>>= ; capability

> >>>>= ; (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

> >>>>= ; message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

> >>>>= ; peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

> >>>>= ; addresses and FECs to that peer.

> >>>

> >>> Sp= eaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the

> >>> ri= ght solution (noting that, in final text as would be published

> >>> in= an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalize= d).

> >>>

> >>> Th= anks, Ross

> >>>

> >>> --= ---Original Message-----

> >>> Fr= om: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On B= ehalf Of Aissaoui,

> >>> Mu= stapha

> >>> (M= ustapha)

> >>> Se= nt: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM

> >>> To= : mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >>> Cc= : mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

> >>> Su= bject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

> >>> (s= hort wglc

> >>> cl= osed)

> >>>

> >>> De= ar all,

> >>> Th= e following are the details of the issue we found and the

> >>> pr= oposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initial feedb= ack.

> >>>

> >>> Wh= en an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in

> >>> a = LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which

> >>> su= pport this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4

> >>> LD= P control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft,

> >>> we= have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of

> >>> IP= v6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring

> >>> do= wn the IPv4 LDP

> session.

> >>>

> >>> In= other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are

> >>> co= mpliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC

> >>> 50= 36 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an

> >>> LD= P IPv4

> session.

> >>> Th= is is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack

> >>> LD= P IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have

> >>> be= en working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years.

> >>>

> >>> Th= e proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this

> >>> dr= aft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

> >>> ca= pability

> >>> (d= raft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

> >>> me= ssage explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

> >>> pe= er advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

> >>> ad= dresses and FECs to that peer.

> >>>

> >>> Th= is approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was

> >>> in= troduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this

> >>> do= es not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It

> >>> ju= st makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional

> >>> to= both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability

> >>> du= ring LDP session

> initialization.=

> >>>

> >>> We= do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft

> >>> an= d having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations

> >>> ac= ross two drafts.

> >>>

> >>> We= appreciate your comments on this matter.

> >>>

> >>> Re= gards,

> >>> Mu= stapha.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>>= ; -----Original Message-----

> >>>>= ; From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Loa

> >>>>= ; Andersson

> >>>>= ; Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM

> >>>>= ; To: mpls@ietf.org<= /a>; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

> >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

> >>>>= ; Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

> >>>>= ; wglc

> >>>>= ; closed)

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; Working Group,

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; During what we thought would be a short wglc on

> >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

> >>>>= ; http://www.ietf.org/m= ail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html

> >>>>= ; we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the draft.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; The short working group last call is now closed!

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the

> >>>>= ; working group chairs and the draft authors.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant

> >>>>= ; implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is

> >>>>= ; no detailed description of the exact problems.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to

> >>>>= ; write-up the problem, either as

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; - a new draft (preferred); or

> >>>>= ; - in a mail to the working group mailing list

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the

> >>>>= ; mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we

> >>>>= ; can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up

> >>>>= ; before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the

> >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is.

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; /Loa

> >>>>= ; for the working group chairs

> >>>>= ; --

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; Loa Andersson          =             &nb= sp; email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

> >>>>= ; Senior MPLS Expert         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    loa@pi.nu

> >>>>= ; Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 7= 39 81 21 64

> >>>>= ;

> >>>>= ; _______________________________________________

> >>>>= ; mpls mailing list

> >>>>= ; mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >>>>= ; https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

> >>>

> >>> __= _____________________________________________

> >>> mp= ls mailing list

> >>> mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

> >>> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

> >=

 

____________________= ___________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D1555SG70YWXCHMBA08zap_-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:31:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A085F1A88D2 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:31:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cOfP96vYPpP1 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B81F1A1AB7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.167.213] (dhcp-a7d5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.167.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83749180156F; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:31:10 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5462720F.30405@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:31:11 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrew G. Malis" References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/eBffoYpvgEWrjUEUmFkJ5YW2faQ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] :( - Greg and Nobo tells me it is broken -Re: poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:31:16 -0000 Need to check up on this fairly quickly! /Loa On 2014-11-11 21:28, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > Loa, > > This is a well-supported draft with useful functionality, it should be a > WG draft. > > Cheers, > Andy > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Loa Andersson > wrote: > > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-kini-mpls-spring-__entropy-label as an MPLS working group > document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org ). Please > give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. > > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing > list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. > > However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than > one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the > document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed > had an IPR disclosure. > > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > This poll ends November 25, 2014. > > /Loa > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > _________________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/mpls > > > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:34:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497D01A9138 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:34:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ERgGaHAPx75W for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93B761A912C for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.167.213] (dhcp-a7d5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.167.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AA97E180156F; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:34:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <546272B9.1040807@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:34:01 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> <5462720F.30405@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5462720F.30405@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/WlfNM3r5Sd98OPefZgk5i7Nt0Ng Subject: Re: [mpls] :( - Greg and Nobo tells me it is broken -Re: poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:34:04 -0000 Folks, Sorry this was intended for Andy only, but it is correct that I will have to check up on this is input before closing the wg adoption poll. /Loa On 2014-11-11 21:31, Loa Andersson wrote: > Need to check up on this fairly quickly! > > /Loa > > On 2014-11-11 21:28, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >> Loa, >> >> This is a well-supported draft with useful functionality, it should be a >> WG draft. >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Loa Andersson > > wrote: >> >> Working Group, >> >> This is to start a two week poll on adopting >> draft-kini-mpls-spring-__entropy-label as an MPLS working group >> document. >> >> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working >> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org ). Please >> give a technical >> motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that >> the document should not be adopted as a working group document. >> >> There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. >> >> The authors has all stated on the working group mailing >> list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. >> >> However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than >> one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the >> document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed >> had an IPR disclosure. >> >> However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and >> aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose >> this is now. >> >> This poll ends November 25, 2014. >> >> /Loa >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> >> >> _________________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/mpls >> >> >> > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:47:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE8D1A9251 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:46:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cQevV58QrYX1 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-x22b.google.com (mail-qg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9BDB1ABC74 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id f51so7808853qge.2 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:46:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=Mf9Qg15cskm16ly9IzgIUNR9dgTdhPeI/lr8KarTM9I=; b=s+824AxZLd4auwBqvrR70o/IT+JUcZQCIoGHCmmQTu/Z+HTwUdr4HnaASBe6ev/g2q mk9UUDZurkPYt+FL4alMtacLpiaqMZS8eBL+Bdi1vC119qTZpp0OUfzjxPeDP145NSSq iD/QFnRhzvM0LZRHZnPs9ciMRj6bfsnb7H6891ifbKYpTrDjPJu8A6WBwVB8AR5Uo/Jv BCn45sRJk4vQIlQDOqcHPfqCk9EXwfRB7ukfDg0+tez4WfvRSpxzIsZVfRrKGFQ+8hRj /7sOBciZ8DltMk2LLA0MKSdjZD1x5sOKx6g/W4c3HwvNqCZ+Zs+TVd9CyGQj5HnjZhp1 SmbQ== X-Received: by 10.224.28.193 with SMTP id n1mr55107866qac.93.1415738813901; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:46:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.89.133 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:46:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5462720F.30405@pi.nu> References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> <5462720F.30405@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:46:33 -1000 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2ca3018f38105079b61b7 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/vBGjzw1-m_l6B-81VLlc4BSBLaI Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] :( - Greg and Nobo tells me it is broken -Re: poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:46:59 -0000 --001a11c2ca3018f38105079b61b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Loa, Nobo had an email about five days ago that discussed a bug and proposed a fix, but there's not reason that it can't be fixed while still becoming a WG document. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Need to check up on this fairly quickly! > > /Loa > > On 2014-11-11 21:28, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > >> Loa, >> >> This is a well-supported draft with useful functionality, it should be a >> WG draft. >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Loa Andersson > > wrote: >> >> Working Group, >> >> This is to start a two week poll on adopting >> draft-kini-mpls-spring-__entropy-label as an MPLS working group >> document. >> >> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working >> group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org ). Please >> give a technical >> motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that >> the document should not be adopted as a working group document. >> >> There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. >> >> The authors has all stated on the working group mailing >> list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. >> >> However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than >> one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the >> document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed >> had an IPR disclosure. >> >> However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and >> aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose >> this is now. >> >> This poll ends November 25, 2014. >> >> /Loa >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> >> >> _________________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/mpls >> >> >> >> > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > --001a11c2ca3018f38105079b61b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Loa,

Nobo had an email about five days = ago that discussed a bug and proposed a fix, but there's not reason tha= t it can't be fixed while still becoming a WG document.

<= /div>
Cheers,
Andy


On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:31 AM,= Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
= Need to check up on this fairly quickly!

/Loa

On 2014-11-11 21:28, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
Loa,

This is a well-supported draft with useful functionality, it should be a WG draft.

Cheers,
Andy

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu
<mailto:loa@pi.nu>= > wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Working Group,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is to start a two week poll on adopting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-kini-mpls-spring-__entropy-label as an MPLS work= ing group
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls w= orking
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>). Please
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 give a technical
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 motivation for your support/not support, especially if you th= ink that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the document should not be adopted as a working group documen= t.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The authors has all stated on the working group mailing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this dra= ft.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more= than
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are reference= d in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of t= hese proposed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 had an IPR disclosure.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list= and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this is now.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This poll ends November 25, 2014.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 /Loa
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:loa@mail01.huawei.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <tel:%2B46%20739%2081%2021%2064>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _________________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mpls mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mpls@ietf.= org <mailto:mpls@= ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/mpls
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>


--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739= 81 21 64

--001a11c2ca3018f38105079b61b7-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 13:08:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29DF1ACD34 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:08:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5BWAQbAIDLN5 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:08:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D76801ACD18 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:08:30 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79206d0000014d2-65-5462221dba91 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A8.D6.05330.D1222645; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:50:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:08:29 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document Thread-Index: AQHP/eg5gf3AwlJBgkanrE7x4eb79pxb5p8w Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:08:27 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87EB28@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87EB28eusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonUFdOKSnE4Ps8LouWrxMYLf7NncNs 8f3SEhaLW0tXsjqweCxZ8pPJY9b0NjaPL5c/swUwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlPG5sYil4aFnx vfMpSwPjO4MuRk4OCQETiWP3D7NA2GISF+6tZ+ti5OIQEjjCKNE+4zwzhLOcUeLd8k/MIFVs AkYSLzb2sIPYIgJ2Ehtf/WMEKWIWWMcocWnLGrBRwgJlEktPvmSFKCqX+NS+CqiIA8g2kjjQ Lw0SZhFQlfiwYyYbiM0r4Ctxd3YzWKuQgIrEtzMnwXZxAtX8al4PFmcEuu77qTVMIDazgLjE rSfzmSCuFpBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T9WCFtJYs7ra8wQ9fkShx4+Z4LYJShxcuYTlgmMorOQjJqF pGwWkjKIuI7Egt2f2CBsbYllC18zw9hnDjxmQhZfwMi+ipGjtDi1LDfdyGATIzDqjkmw6e5g 3PPS8hCjAAejEg+vAXdiiBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx3lm184KFBNITS1KzU1MLUovii0pzUosP MTJxcEo1MHoEfNMt5HhZv2PhzMz2kk42px0PF7gmcJ5NXLyaIzvY2dZwqbAv3/rj9894BR5/ eXSpr1Ipo08Bq0zsNPa37x6e4UhImtzBt/lzkLXAF5vZihNjDguKn0h+9SP75t/dPHn2zq16 6Wvqf7euSv4XtdGmasWefJ2mW4uvHO+6GbUg/7p8zNzpYUosxRmJhlrMRcWJAEJCtWqbAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/5QPfBrXB4wlZ-Fl5l8Y895tBYis Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:08:33 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87EB28eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors, chairs, et. al, I've read the current version of the draft and found that my major concern = expressed in MPLS-RT comments is still valid. Hence I'm sending it again: * No illustration of how rules can be applied to the use case present= ed in Section 3 to achieve desired load balancing. To make it more practica= l different RLD values can be assigned to LSRs in the use case in Fig.1. Entropy label in Segment Routing network is important and useful problem to= address, no doubt. But this is not a framework but solution document and I= believe that algorithm proposed in Section 4 must be applied to network ex= ample presented in the Section 3 of the document to demonstrate that it wor= ks, minimizes label stack depth while is beneficial in distribution of data= flows across available paths. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:46 AM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.= ietf.org Subject: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spr= ing-entropy-label an mpls wg document Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy= -label as an MPLS working group document. Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group m= ailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical = motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that the d= ocument should not be adopted as a working group document. There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they are = unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than one solu= tion to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the document, but= are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed had an IPR disclosure. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of = IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. This poll ends November 25, 2014. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87EB28eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors, chairs, et. al,
I've read the current version of the draft and found that my major con= cern expressed in MPLS-RT comments is still valid. Hence I'm sending it aga= in:
  • No illustration of how rules can be applied to the use case presented i= n Section 3 to achieve desired load balancing. To make it more practical di= fferent RLD values can be assigned to LSRs in the use case in Fig.1.
    • Entropy label in Segment Routing network is important and useful probl= em to address, no doubt. But this is not a framework but solution document = and I believe that algorithm proposed in Section 4 must be applied to netwo= rk example presented in the Section 3 of the document to demonstrate that it works, minimizes label stack depth= while is beneficial in distribution of data flows across available paths.<= /div>
     
            Regards,
               &nbs= p;    Greg
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
    Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:46 AM
    To: mpls@ietf.org
    Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.= ietf.org
    Subject: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spr= ing-entropy-label an mpls wg document
     
    Working Group,
     
    This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-kini-mpls-spring-en= tropy-label as an MPLS working group document.
     
    Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working gr= oup mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Plea= se give a technical motivation for your support/not support, especially if = you think that the document should not be adopted as a working group document.
     
    There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document.
     
    The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they= are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft.
     
    However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than one= solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the document= , but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed had an I= PR disclosure.
     
    However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and awar= e of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now.
     
    This poll ends November 25, 2014.
     
    /Loa
    --
     
     
    Loa Andersson         &nb= sp;            =   email: loa@mail01.huawei.co= m
    Senior MPLS Expert        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    loa@pi.nu
    Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +4= 6 739 81 21 64
     
    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
     
     --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87EB28eusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 13:13:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152BD1ACDB8 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:13:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gCI76RJYqzpH for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:13:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 913471ACDA8 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.65]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 69D9DDAB7A175; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:12:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70twxchhub03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.35]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sABLCwf8016998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:12:58 -0500 Received: from US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.12.84]) by US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.5.2.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:12:58 -0500 From: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" , "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) Thread-Index: AQHPtkReGJe0hsllSUWt55jdwggY6ZvXguRQgAXkqoCACAl2gIAC82twgAD6kwCABO68kIAAc50AgGXNedCACDTsAP//tftQ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:12:57 +0000 Message-ID: <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478F3F5@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <53EA3666.2040004@pi.nu> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D94717BBC@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <9ace61def77942938bc577e4b6782680@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> , <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471CE50@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <7A384EF8-93FE-4157-8726-6B0F4DD3D47B@cisco.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471DC7F@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.5.27.16] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478F3F5US70UWXCHMBA04z_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/X6YCkVCfEcFrWu8NN7e0K1jw2xc Cc: Ross Callon , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:13:13 -0000 --_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478F3F5US70UWXCHMBA04z_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just wanted to add that the explicit advertisement of support of a FEC ty= pe in the session initialization is already used with mLDP P2MP and MP2MP F= EC in RFC 6388 (sections 2.1 and 3.1 respectively). It is not new and we ar= e just saying let us do the same thing for the IPv6 prefix FEC. Regards, Mustapha. From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:30 PM To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls= -ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I had raised similar concerns earlier. Hacking up =93per adjacency specific= =94 Dual-stack TLV to mean for =93session-level=94 IPV6 FEC and Address cap= abilities is completely wrong thing to do. 1. Dual stack TLV is sent per Hello adjacency on an interface and its = purpose is bootstrapping LDP session. There could be multiple interface/adj= acencies with a peering session. The capability in question is a session le= vel capability and not per hello adjacency on an interface. Hacking up an a= djacency level TLV to negotiate IPV6 session capabilities is a complete di= sconnect. 2. LDP session capability framework is defined in RFC 5561. There is a= n already defined method in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability (SAC Capab= ilities) which is based on RFC 5561 to negotiate IPV6 FEC Capabilities in a= n LDP session. Currently SAC Capabilities limit to explicit advertisement o= f do_not_support =3D -ve case only. Just adding the following clause into S= AC Capability include the +ve case (explicit support) is a generic way and = time-tested solution. =93Implementations complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix s= tate advertisement control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= ) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6= FEC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IP= v6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.=94 It does not make sense for an implementation to hack an adjacen= cy level TLV (Dual Stack TLV which was introduced for a complete different = purpose) for the +ve case and then use IPV6 SAC Capabilities for =96ve cas= e). There needs to be only one way to fulfill one specific purpose. I am su= rprised too to see such kind of proposals in a Standards track item which i= s likely to exist for many years. Thanks, Pranjal From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 3:00 PM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed the draft was updat= ed to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way to discover the = LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses. I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LDP mechanism which= is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we only needed to disc= over the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and no= t at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothing which is specific to the a= djacency here. The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the FEC and address ca= pability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preference for the control= plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent tha= t this would be overloaded to indicate FEC and address capability advertise= ment which is orthogonal to adjacency establishment. I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existing IPv6 capabilit= y described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, which is extension of= LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capabil= ity for the IPv6 addresses in that same draft if really required but I do n= ot think we needed to. There needs to be only one method to do one thing an= d draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability is the way to go for any IPv6 FEC r= elated =93session=94 capabilities. To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementations complying to th= is draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capabil= ity (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message ex= plicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the peer advertising = this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that = peer. There was one individual support for this proposal on this mailing list and= I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed. Regards, Mustapha. From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I second to Mustapha. We should use features for what they are designed for= . It is the SAC capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that d= efines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session,= which fits into the required inter-op solution organically. I do not consider explicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) i= n Initialization message can be seen as baggage. An implementation that doe= s not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization me= ssage anyways. Cheers, Pranjal -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (= Mustapha) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, I think the key point I am trying to convey is that we should keep the prot= ocol clean and use features for what they are designed for. LDP has its own= capability advertisement and it is meant to address issues like this one. Overloading the TR field of the initialization message means that a peer wi= ll have to check both the TR and the SAC to decide what to do for the IPv6 = prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SAC for all other FEC types.= This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protoc= ol. Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is not a baggage in the future= . This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP FECs and this is working f= ine today although many implementations now support these types of FECs. As for changing other drafts, we are simply talking about stating in draft-= ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP peer must set D-bit=3D0 in I= Pv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization message. Regards, Mustapha. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) > Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.i= etf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > wglc closed) > > Hi Mustapha, > > TR field is useful in case of dual-stack environment and using it for > determining whether the peer implementation is compliant (wrt handling > v6 address bindings and label bindings) is simple and straight forward. > > When v6-only peer implementations exist (and become a new norm), TR > field usage would become moot. And we wouldn't have to see them. A > very good thing, IMO. > > We need to think about how much of this baggage needs to carry over > when single- stack ipv6 networks become a new norm (like single-stack ipv= 4 has been). > > Given that this draft already has built-in means to accommodate the > RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so in a simple manner, it is > not necessary to require changing other drafts, IMO. > > > Cheers, > Raj > > > PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, and it would be wise to > dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advertised) in v6-only > environment with an option to change it. This is nothing different from c= urrent protocol machinery. > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" > > wrote: > > > > Hi Rajiv, > > See inline below for some follow-up. > > > > Regards, > > Mustapha. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:19 PM > >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org > >> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc closed) > >> > >> > >> If this draft were to address the interoperability with rfc5036 > >> non-compliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather > >> leverage the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of th= e version 13. > >> This TLV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedbac= k. > >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1. > >> 1 > > MA> It is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability > > MA> advertisement > role. LDP has its own capability advertisement mechanism and there is > no need to confuse implementations with the handling of two mechanisms. > > > >> The reason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP > >> Prefix capability > >> etc.) is 2-fold: > >> > >> - not forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now - > >> IPv6-only MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an > >> unnecessary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not > >> optimal, if not annoying) > > MA> IPv6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type > > MA> network. It will > support many types of FECs in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP > IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have > been designed for the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling > capabilities including FEC type support on a given session. > > > >> - not 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of > >> v6 address binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage > >> to a non-compliant peer)) > > MA> I think it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address > > MA> messages > and IPv6 prefix FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by > both peers. If however there is a use case for decoupling the > advertising of IPv6 addresses from > IPv6 FECs, then a separate capability can be devised for addresses but > I do not think we need it. > > > > > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Rajiv Asati > >> Distinguished Engineer, Cisco > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ross Callon > > >> Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM > >> To: Mustapha Aissaoui >, > >> "mpls@ietf.org" > > >> Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" >, > >> "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" > >> > > >> Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc > >> closed) > >> Resent-From: > > >> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro >, Rajiv Papneja > >> >, Rajiv Asa= ti >, Vishwas > >> Manral >, >, Loa Andersson > >> >, Ross Callon >, MARTIN VIGOUREUX > >> > > >> Resent-Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM > >> > >>>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to > >>>> this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>>> capability > >>>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> Speaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the > >>> right solution (noting that, in final text as would be published > >>> in an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalized)= . > >>> > >>> Thanks, Ross > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, > >>> Mustapha > >>> (Mustapha) > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM > >>> To: mpls@ietf.org > >>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>> (short wglc > >>> closed) > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> The following are the details of the issue we found and the > >>> proposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initi= al feedback. > >>> > >>> When an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in > >>> a LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which > >>> support this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4 > >>> LDP control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft, > >>> we have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of > >>> IPv6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring > >>> down the IPv4 LDP > session. > >>> > >>> In other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are > >>> compliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC > >>> 5036 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an > >>> LDP IPv4 > session. > >>> This is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack > >>> LDP IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have > >>> been working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years. > >>> > >>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this > >>> draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>> capability > >>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> This approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was > >>> introduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this > >>> does not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It > >>> just makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional > >>> to both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability > >>> during LDP session > initialization. > >>> > >>> We do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft > >>> and having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations > >>> across two drafts. > >>> > >>> We appreciate your comments on this matter. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mustapha. > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa > >>>> Andersson > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM > >>>> To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>; > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>>> Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >>>> wglc > >>>> closed) > >>>> > >>>> Working Group, > >>>> > >>>> During what we thought would be a short wglc on > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html > >>>> we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the dra= ft. > >>>> > >>>> The short working group last call is now closed! > >>>> > >>>> The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the > >>>> working group chairs and the draft authors. > >>>> > >>>> It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant > >>>> implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is > >>>> no detailed description of the exact problems. > >>>> > >>>> We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to > >>>> write-up the problem, either as > >>>> > >>>> - a new draft (preferred); or > >>>> - in a mail to the working group mailing list > >>>> > >>>> Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the > >>>> mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we > >>>> can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up > >>>> before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is. > >>>> > >>>> /Loa > >>>> for the working group chairs > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > >>>> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > >>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> mpls mailing list > >>>> mpls@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> mpls mailing list > >>> mpls@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478F3F5US70UWXCHMBA04z_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I just wanted to add that the explicit advertisement of su= pport of a FEC type in the session initialization is already used with mLDP= P2MP and MP2MP FEC in RFC 6388 (sections 2.1 and 3.1 respectively). It is not new and we are just saying let us do the same thing for the IPv6= prefix FEC.

     

    Regards,

    Mustapha.

     

    From: Dutta, P= ranjal K (Pranjal)
    Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:30 PM
    To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    I had raised similar concerns earlier. = Hacking up =93per adjacency specific=94 Dual-stack TLV to mean for =93sessi= on-level=94 IPV6 FEC and Address capabilities is completely wrong thing to do.

     

    1= .   &= nbsp;  Dual stack TLV is sent per Hell= o adjacency on an interface and its purpose is bootstrapping LDP session. T= here could be multiple interface/adjacencies with a peering session. The capability in question is a session level capability and not = per hello adjacency on an interface. Hacking up an adjacency level TLV to n= egotiate  IPV6 session capabilities is a complete disconnect.

     

    2= .   &= nbsp;  LDP session capability framewor= k is defined in RFC 5561. There is an already defined method in draft-ietf-= mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability (SAC Capabilities) which is based on RFC 5561 to negotiate IPV6 FEC Capabilities in an LDP session. Cu= rrently SAC Capabilities limit to explicit advertisement of do_not_support = =3D -ve case only. Just adding the following clause into SAC Capability inc= lude the +ve case (explicit support) is a generic way and time-tested solution.

     

    =93Implementations complying to= this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capa= bility (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message  explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the = peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and I= Pv6 FECs to that peer.=94

     

          &nb= sp;     It does not make sense for an implementation to= hack an adjacency level TLV (Dual Stack TLV which was introduced for a com= plete different purpose)  for the +ve case and then use IPV6 SAC Capabilities for =96ve case). There needs to be= only one way to fulfill one specific purpose. I am surprised too to see su= ch kind of proposals in a Standards track item which is likely to exist for= many years.

     

    Thanks,

    Pranjal

     

    From: Aissaoui= , Mustapha (Mustapha)
    Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 3:00 PM
    To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    Hi Rajiv,

    We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed th= e draft was updated to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way= to discover the LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses.

     

    I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LD= P mechanism which is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we on= ly needed to discover the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and not at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothin= g which is specific to the adjacency here.

     

    The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the F= EC and address capability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preferenc= e for the control plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent that this would be overloaded to indicate FEC a= nd address capability advertisement which is orthogonal to adjacency establ= ishment.

     

    I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existi= ng IPv6 capability described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, = which is extension of LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capability for the IPv6 addresses in that sam= e draft if really required but I do not think we needed to. There needs to = be only one method to do one thing and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= is the way to go  for any IPv6 FEC related =93session=94 capabilities.

     

    To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementation= s complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisemen= t control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 F= EC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6= addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.

     

    There was one individual support for this proposal on this= mailing list and I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed.

     

    Regards,

    Mustapha.

     

    From: Dutta, P= ranjal K (Pranjal)
    Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM
    To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    I second to Mustaph= a. We should use features for what they are designed for. It is the SAC cap= ability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that defines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session, which= fits into the required inter-op solution organically.

     

    I do not consider e= xplicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) in Initialization me= ssage can be seen as baggage. An implementation that does not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization mes= sage anyways.

     

    Cheers,<= /span>

    Pranjal<= /span>

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
    Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM
    To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed)

     

    Hi Rajiv,

    I think the key point I am trying to convey is th= at we should keep the protocol clean and use features for what they are des= igned for. LDP has its own capability advertisement and it is meant to addr= ess issues like this one.

     

    Overloading the TR field of the initialization me= ssage means that a peer will have to check both the TR and the SAC to decid= e what to do for the IPv6 prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SA= C for all other FEC types. This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protocol.=

     

    Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is n= ot a baggage in the future. This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP = FECs and this is working fine today although many implementations now suppo= rt these types of FECs.

     

    As for changing other drafts, we are simply talki= ng about stating in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP pee= r must set D-bit=3D0  in IPv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization mes= sage.

     

    Regards,

    Mustapha.

     

    > -----Original Message-----

    > From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [m= ailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

    > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM=

    > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)=

    > Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;

    > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org

    > Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > wglc closed)

    >

    > Hi Mustapha,

    >

    > TR field is useful in case of dual-stack env= ironment and using it for

    > determining whether the peer implementation = is compliant (wrt handling

    > v6 address bindings and label bindings) is s= imple and straight forward.

    >

    > When v6-only peer implementations exist (and= become a new norm), TR

    > field usage would become moot. And we wouldn= 't have to see them. A

    > very good thing, IMO.

    >

    > We need to think about how much of this bagg= age needs to carry over

    > when single- stack ipv6 networks become a ne= w norm (like single-stack ipv4 has been).

    >

    > Given that this draft already has built-in m= eans to accommodate the

    > RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so = in a simple manner, it is

    > not necessary to require changing other draf= ts, IMO.

    >

    >

    > Cheers,

    > Raj

    >

    >

    > PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, = and it would be wise to

    > dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advert= ised) in v6-only

    > environment with an option to change it. Thi= s is nothing different from current protocol machinery.

    >

    >

    > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aiss= aoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)"

    > <mu= stapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent .com> wrote:

    > >

    > > Hi Rajiv,

    > > See inline below for some follow-up.

    > >

    > > Regards,

    > > Mustapha.

    > >

    > >> -----Original Message-----

    > >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

    > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:= 19 PM

    > >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha= (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >> Cc: mpls-c= hairs@tools.ietf.org;

    > >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

    > >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > >> wglc closed)

    > >>

    > >>

    > >> If this draft were to address the i= nteroperability with rfc5036

    > >> non-co= mpliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather

    > >> levera= ge the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of the version 1= 3.

    > >> This T= LV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedback.

    > >>

    > >> http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1.

    > >> 1=

    > > MA> It = is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability

    > > MA> adv= ertisement

    > role. LDP has i= ts own capability advertisement mechanism and there is

    > no need to conf= use implementations with the handling of two mechanisms.

    > >=

    > >> The re= ason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP

    > >> Prefix= capability

    > >> etc.) = is 2-fold:

    > >>

    > >> - not = forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now -

    > >> IPv6-o= nly MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an

    > >> unnece= ssary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not

    > >> optima= l, if not annoying)

    > > MA> IPv= 6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type

    > > MA> net= work. It will

    > support many ty= pes of FECs  in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP

    > IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have

    > been designed f= or the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling

    > capabilities in= cluding FEC type support on a given session.

    > >=

    > >> - not = 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of

    > >> v6 add= ress binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage

    > >> to a n= on-compliant peer))

    > > MA> I t= hink it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address

    > > MA> mes= sages

    > and IPv6 prefix= FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by

    > both peers. If = however there is a use case for decoupling the

    > advertising of = IPv6 addresses from

    > IPv6 FECs, then= a separate capability can be devised for addresses but

    > I do not think = we need it.

    > >=

    > >=

    > >> Thanks= .

    > >>

    > >>

    > >> --

    > >> Cheers= ,

    > >> Rajiv = Asati

    > >> Distin= guished Engineer, Cisco

    > >>

    > >>

    > >>

    > >>

    > >>

    > >> -----O= riginal Message-----

    > >> From: = Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>

    > >> Date: = Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM

    > >> To: Mu= stapha Aissaoui <mustapha.aissaoui@al= catel-lucent.com>,

    > >> "= mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>

    > >> Cc: &q= uot;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" &l= t;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,

    > >> "= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.o= rg"

    > >> <draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org= >

    > >> Subjec= t: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > >> wglc

    > >> closed= )

    > >> Resent= -From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.= org>

    > >> Resent= -To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>= ;, Rajiv Papneja

    > >> <rajiv.papneja@huawei.com>, Rajiv Asati &= lt;rajiva@cisco.com>, Vishwas

    > >> Manral= <vishwas.manral@hp.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson

    > >> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, MARTIN VIGOUREUX

    > >> <= martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>

    > >> Resent= -Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM

    > >>

    > >>>>= ; The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to

    > >>>>= ; this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

    > >>>>= ; capability

    > >>>>= ; (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

    > >>>>= ; message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

    > >>>>= ; peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

    > >>>>= ; addresses and FECs to that peer.

    > >>>

    > >>> Sp= eaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the

    > >>> ri= ght solution (noting that, in final text as would be published

    > >>> in= an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalize= d).

    > >>>

    > >>> Th= anks, Ross

    > >>>

    > >>> --= ---Original Message-----

    > >>> Fr= om: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On B= ehalf Of Aissaoui,

    > >>> Mu= stapha

    > >>> (M= ustapha)

    > >>> Se= nt: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM

    > >>> To= : mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >>> Cc= : mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

    > >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

    > >>> Su= bject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

    > >>> (s= hort wglc

    > >>> cl= osed)

    > >>>

    > >>> De= ar all,

    > >>> Th= e following are the details of the issue we found and the

    > >>> pr= oposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initial feedb= ack.

    > >>>

    > >>> Wh= en an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in

    > >>> a = LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which

    > >>> su= pport this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4

    > >>> LD= P control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft,

    > >>> we= have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of

    > >>> IP= v6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring

    > >>> do= wn the IPv4 LDP

    > session.

    > >>>

    > >>> In= other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are

    > >>> co= mpliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC

    > >>> 50= 36 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an

    > >>> LD= P IPv4

    > session.

    > >>> Th= is is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack

    > >>> LD= P IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have

    > >>> be= en working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years.

    > >>>

    > >>> Th= e proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this

    > >>> dr= aft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

    > >>> ca= pability

    > >>> (d= raft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

    > >>> me= ssage explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

    > >>> pe= er advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

    > >>> ad= dresses and FECs to that peer.

    > >>>

    > >>> Th= is approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was

    > >>> in= troduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this

    > >>> do= es not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It

    > >>> ju= st makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional

    > >>> to= both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability

    > >>> du= ring LDP session

    > initialization.=

    > >>>

    > >>> We= do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft

    > >>> an= d having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations

    > >>> ac= ross two drafts.

    > >>>

    > >>> We= appreciate your comments on this matter.

    > >>>

    > >>> Re= gards,

    > >>> Mu= stapha.

    > >>>

    > >>>

    > >>>>= ; -----Original Message-----

    > >>>>= ; From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Loa

    > >>>>= ; Andersson

    > >>>>= ; Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM

    > >>>>= ; To: mpls@ietf.org<= /a>; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

    > >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

    > >>>>= ; Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > >>>>= ; wglc

    > >>>>= ; closed)

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; Working Group,

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; During what we thought would be a short wglc on

    > >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

    > >>>>= ; http://www.ietf.org/m= ail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html

    > >>>>= ; we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the draft.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; The short working group last call is now closed!

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the

    > >>>>= ; working group chairs and the draft authors.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant

    > >>>>= ; implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is

    > >>>>= ; no detailed description of the exact problems.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to

    > >>>>= ; write-up the problem, either as

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; - a new draft (preferred); or

    > >>>>= ; - in a mail to the working group mailing list

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the

    > >>>>= ; mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we

    > >>>>= ; can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up

    > >>>>= ; before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the

    > >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; /Loa

    > >>>>= ; for the working group chairs

    > >>>>= ; --

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; Loa Andersson          =             &nb= sp; email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

    > >>>>= ; Senior MPLS Expert         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    loa@pi.nu

    > >>>>= ; Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 7= 39 81 21 64

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; _______________________________________________

    > >>>>= ; mpls mailing list

    > >>>>= ; mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >>>>= ; https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

    > >>>

    > >>> __= _____________________________________________

    > >>> mp= ls mailing list

    > >>> mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >>> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

    > >=

     

    ____________________= ___________________________

    mpls mailing list

    mpls@ietf.org

    https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Malis" , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: [mpls] :( - Greg and Nobo tells me it is broken -Re: poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document Thread-Index: AQHP/e579uIQB9aXNk6yobaDuMVCdpxcSd+A//+gNuA= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:17:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> <5462720F.30405@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.82.211.84] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F524A94xmbalnx01ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/hNd1XHF5_xiYZbJDhqPwnYB2wnI Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] :( - Greg and Nobo tells me it is broken -Re: poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:17:43 -0000 --_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F524A94xmbalnx01ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTG9hLCBBbmR5LCBldCBhbCwNCg0KRm9yIHRoZSByZWNvcmQsIEkgbmV2ZXIgc2FpZCBkcmFm dC1raW5pLW1wbHMtc3ByaW5nLWVudHJvcHktbGFiZWwgaXMgYnJva2VuIOKYug0KDQpJIHRoaW5r IGRyYWZ0LWtpbmktbXBscy1zcHJpbmctZW50cm9weS1sYWJlbCBpcyBpbnRlbmRpbmcgdG8gc29s dmUgYSB2YWxpZCBwcm9ibGVtIGFuZCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgaXMgYSBnb29kIHN0YXJ0aW5nIHBv aW50Lg0KDQoNCi0gICAgICAgIFRoZSBhbGdvcml0aG0gcHJvdmlkZWQgaW4gdGhlIEZpZ3VyZSAy IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIHVwZGF0ZWQgKHNlZSBteSBwcmV2aW91cyBlbWFpbCB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCku IFdpdGggdGhhdCwgSSB0aGluayB0aGUgc2ltcGxlIHNjZW5hcmlvIHdoZXJlIFJMRCBpcyBjb25z aWRlcmVkIHRvIGJlIGNvbnN0YW50IGZvciBhIGdpdmVuIFNSIExTUCBzaG91bGQgd29yay4NCg0K 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DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F524A94xmbalnx01ciscoc_-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 13:50:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0B781A6F10 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:49:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DBRPQdYZBAkH for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 765841ACEB7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from us70tusmtp2.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.64]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 29920AEDDD5A2; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:49:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70uwxchhub01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.48]) by us70tusmtp2.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sABLneaU024843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:49:43 -0500 Received: from SG70YWXCHHUB03.zap.alcatel-lucent.com (135.253.2.37) by US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:49:41 -0500 Received: from SG70YWXCHMBA08.zap.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.8.137]) by SG70YWXCHHUB03.zap.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.253.2.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:49:36 +0800 From: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" To: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" , "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) Thread-Index: AQHPtkReW5ZYZDudTUC1XfMcEOSFO5vXguRQgAXkqoCACAl2gIAC82twgAD6kwCABO68kIAAJfpggGwN3oCAAeX6YP//jlKAgACNZXA= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:49:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <53EA3666.2040004@pi.nu> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D94717BBC@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <9ace61def77942938bc577e4b6782680@CO2PR05MB636.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> , <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471CE50@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <7A384EF8-93FE-4157-8726-6B0F4DD3D47B@cisco.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9471DC7F@US70UWXCHMBA01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478E915@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478F3F5@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <4A79394211F1AF4EB57D998426C9340D9478F3F5@US70UWXCHMBA04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.253.19.16] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D16BCSG70YWXCHMBA08zap_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/nt6gRKKhbhhTqKgF5K2X5zM1MPk Cc: Ross Callon , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc closed) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:49:58 -0000 --_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D16BCSG70YWXCHMBA08zap_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, adding the explicit advertisement of support of a FEC type in SAC capa= bility aligns with what we have done for other FEC capabilities so far. Mor= eover, it is the simplest thing to do as opposed to round-about (+ in corre= ct) logic proposed by current version of LDP-IPV6 draft for IPV6 capability= negotiation. Thanks, Pranjal From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 1:13 PM To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls= -ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I just wanted to add that the explicit advertisement of support of a FEC ty= pe in the session initialization is already used with mLDP P2MP and MP2MP F= EC in RFC 6388 (sections 2.1 and 3.1 respectively). It is not new and we ar= e just saying let us do the same thing for the IPv6 prefix FEC. Regards, Mustapha. From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:30 PM To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I had raised similar concerns earlier. Hacking up =93per adjacency specific= =94 Dual-stack TLV to mean for =93session-level=94 IPV6 FEC and Address cap= abilities is completely wrong thing to do. 1. Dual stack TLV is sent per Hello adjacency on an interface and its = purpose is bootstrapping LDP session. There could be multiple interface/adj= acencies with a peering session. The capability in question is a session le= vel capability and not per hello adjacency on an interface. Hacking up an a= djacency level TLV to negotiate IPV6 session capabilities is a complete di= sconnect. 2. LDP session capability framework is defined in RFC 5561. There is a= n already defined method in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability (SAC Capab= ilities) which is based on RFC 5561 to negotiate IPV6 FEC Capabilities in a= n LDP session. Currently SAC Capabilities limit to explicit advertisement o= f do_not_support =3D -ve case only. Just adding the following clause into S= AC Capability include the +ve case (explicit support) is a generic way and = time-tested solution. =93Implementations complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix s= tate advertisement control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= ) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6= FEC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IP= v6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.=94 It does not make sense for an implementation to hack an adjacen= cy level TLV (Dual Stack TLV which was introduced for a complete different = purpose) for the +ve case and then use IPV6 SAC Capabilities for =96ve cas= e). There needs to be only one way to fulfill one specific purpose. I am su= rprised too to see such kind of proposals in a Standards track item which i= s likely to exist for many years. Thanks, Pranjal From: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 3:00 PM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed the draft was updat= ed to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way to discover the = LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses. I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LDP mechanism which= is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we only needed to disc= over the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and no= t at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothing which is specific to the a= djacency here. The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the FEC and address ca= pability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preference for the control= plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent tha= t this would be overloaded to indicate FEC and address capability advertise= ment which is orthogonal to adjacency establishment. I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existing IPv6 capabilit= y described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, which is extension of= LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capabil= ity for the IPv6 addresses in that same draft if really required but I do n= ot think we needed to. There needs to be only one method to do one thing an= d draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability is the way to go for any IPv6 FEC r= elated =93session=94 capabilities. To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementations complying to th= is draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capabil= ity (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message ex= plicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the peer advertising = this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and IPv6 FECs to that = peer. There was one individual support for this proposal on this mailing list and= I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed. Regards, Mustapha. From: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) I second to Mustapha. We should use features for what they are designed for= . It is the SAC capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that d= efines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session,= which fits into the required inter-op solution organically. I do not consider explicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) i= n Initialization message can be seen as baggage. An implementation that doe= s not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization me= ssage anyways. Cheers, Pranjal -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (= Mustapha) Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ie= tf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed) Hi Rajiv, I think the key point I am trying to convey is that we should keep the prot= ocol clean and use features for what they are designed for. LDP has its own= capability advertisement and it is meant to address issues like this one. Overloading the TR field of the initialization message means that a peer wi= ll have to check both the TR and the SAC to decide what to do for the IPv6 = prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SAC for all other FEC types.= This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protoc= ol. Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is not a baggage in the future= . This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP FECs and this is working f= ine today although many implementations now support these types of FECs. As for changing other drafts, we are simply talking about stating in draft-= ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP peer must set D-bit=3D0 in I= Pv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization message. Regards, Mustapha. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha) > Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.i= etf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > wglc closed) > > Hi Mustapha, > > TR field is useful in case of dual-stack environment and using it for > determining whether the peer implementation is compliant (wrt handling > v6 address bindings and label bindings) is simple and straight forward. > > When v6-only peer implementations exist (and become a new norm), TR > field usage would become moot. And we wouldn't have to see them. A > very good thing, IMO. > > We need to think about how much of this baggage needs to carry over > when single- stack ipv6 networks become a new norm (like single-stack ipv= 4 has been). > > Given that this draft already has built-in means to accommodate the > RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so in a simple manner, it is > not necessary to require changing other drafts, IMO. > > > Cheers, > Raj > > > PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, and it would be wise to > dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advertised) in v6-only > environment with an option to change it. This is nothing different from c= urrent protocol machinery. > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" > > wrote: > > > > Hi Rajiv, > > See inline below for some follow-up. > > > > Regards, > > Mustapha. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:19 PM > >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org > >> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc closed) > >> > >> > >> If this draft were to address the interoperability with rfc5036 > >> non-compliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather > >> leverage the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of th= e version 13. > >> This TLV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedbac= k. > >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1. > >> 1 > > MA> It is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability > > MA> advertisement > role. LDP has its own capability advertisement mechanism and there is > no need to confuse implementations with the handling of two mechanisms. > > > >> The reason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP > >> Prefix capability > >> etc.) is 2-fold: > >> > >> - not forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now - > >> IPv6-only MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an > >> unnecessary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not > >> optimal, if not annoying) > > MA> IPv6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type > > MA> network. It will > support many types of FECs in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP > IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have > been designed for the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling > capabilities including FEC type support on a given session. > > > >> - not 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of > >> v6 address binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage > >> to a non-compliant peer)) > > MA> I think it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address > > MA> messages > and IPv6 prefix FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by > both peers. If however there is a use case for decoupling the > advertising of IPv6 addresses from > IPv6 FECs, then a separate capability can be devised for addresses but > I do not think we need it. > > > > > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Rajiv Asati > >> Distinguished Engineer, Cisco > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ross Callon > > >> Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM > >> To: Mustapha Aissaoui >, > >> "mpls@ietf.org" > > >> Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" >, > >> "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org" > >> > > >> Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >> wglc > >> closed) > >> Resent-From: > > >> Resent-To: Carlos Pignataro >, Rajiv Papneja > >> >, Rajiv Asa= ti >, Vishwas > >> Manral >, >, Loa Andersson > >> >, Ross Callon >, MARTIN VIGOUREUX > >> > > >> Resent-Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM > >> > >>>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to > >>>> this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>>> capability > >>>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> Speaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the > >>> right solution (noting that, in final text as would be published > >>> in an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalized)= . > >>> > >>> Thanks, Ross > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, > >>> Mustapha > >>> (Mustapha) > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM > >>> To: mpls@ietf.org > >>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>> (short wglc > >>> closed) > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> The following are the details of the issue we found and the > >>> proposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initi= al feedback. > >>> > >>> When an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in > >>> a LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which > >>> support this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4 > >>> LDP control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft, > >>> we have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of > >>> IPv6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring > >>> down the IPv4 LDP > session. > >>> > >>> In other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are > >>> compliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC > >>> 5036 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an > >>> LDP IPv4 > session. > >>> This is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack > >>> LDP IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have > >>> been working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years. > >>> > >>> The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this > >>> draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control > >>> capability > >>> (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization > >>> message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the > >>> peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 > >>> addresses and FECs to that peer. > >>> > >>> This approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was > >>> introduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this > >>> does not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It > >>> just makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional > >>> to both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability > >>> during LDP session > initialization. > >>> > >>> We do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft > >>> and having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations > >>> across two drafts. > >>> > >>> We appreciate your comments on this matter. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mustapha. > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa > >>>> Andersson > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM > >>>> To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>; > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org > >>>> Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short > >>>> wglc > >>>> closed) > >>>> > >>>> Working Group, > >>>> > >>>> During what we thought would be a short wglc on > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 > >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html > >>>> we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the dra= ft. > >>>> > >>>> The short working group last call is now closed! > >>>> > >>>> The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the > >>>> working group chairs and the draft authors. > >>>> > >>>> It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant > >>>> implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is > >>>> no detailed description of the exact problems. > >>>> > >>>> We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to > >>>> write-up the problem, either as > >>>> > >>>> - a new draft (preferred); or > >>>> - in a mail to the working group mailing list > >>>> > >>>> Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the > >>>> mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we > >>>> can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up > >>>> before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the > >>>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is. > >>>> > >>>> /Loa > >>>> for the working group chairs > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > >>>> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > >>>> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> mpls mailing list > >>>> mpls@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> mpls mailing list > >>> mpls@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_ABD110CD5D879A4BB51C269846E4CA311D16BCSG70YWXCHMBA08zap_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Yes, adding the explicit advertisement = of support of a FEC type in SAC capability aligns with what we have done fo= r other FEC capabilities so far. Moreover, it is the simplest thing to do as opposed to round-about (+ in correct) logic proposed by= current version of LDP-IPV6 draft for IPV6 capability negotiation.

     

    Thanks,

    Pranjal

     

    From: Aissaoui= , Mustapha (Mustapha)
    Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 1:13 PM
    To: Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    I just wanted to add that the explicit advertisement of su= pport of a FEC type in the session initialization is already used with mLDP= P2MP and MP2MP FEC in RFC 6388 (sections 2.1 and 3.1 respectively). It is not new and we are just saying let us do the same thing for the IPv6= prefix FEC.

     

    Regards,

    Mustapha.

     

    From: Dutta, P= ranjal K (Pranjal)
    Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 3:30 PM
    To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    I had raised similar concerns earlier. = Hacking up =93per adjacency specific=94 Dual-stack TLV to mean for =93sessi= on-level=94 IPV6 FEC and Address capabilities is completely wrong thing to do.

     

    1= .   &= nbsp;  Dual stack TLV is sent per Hell= o adjacency on an interface and its purpose is bootstrapping LDP session. T= here could be multiple interface/adjacencies with a peering session. The capability in question is a session level capability and not = per hello adjacency on an interface. Hacking up an adjacency level TLV to n= egotiate  IPV6 session capabilities is a complete disconnect.

     

    2= .   &= nbsp;  LDP session capability framewor= k is defined in RFC 5561. There is an already defined method in draft-ietf-= mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability (SAC Capabilities) which is based on RFC 5561 to negotiate IPV6 FEC Capabilities in an LDP session. Cu= rrently SAC Capabilities limit to explicit advertisement of do_not_support = =3D -ve case only. Just adding the following clause into SAC Capability inc= lude the +ve case (explicit support) is a generic way and time-tested solution.

     

    =93Implementations complying to= this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control capa= bility (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message  explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 FEC. Without the = peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6 addresses and I= Pv6 FECs to that peer.=94

     

          &nb= sp;     It does not make sense for an implementation to= hack an adjacency level TLV (Dual Stack TLV which was introduced for a com= plete different purpose)  for the +ve case and then use IPV6 SAC Capabilities for =96ve case). There needs to be= only one way to fulfill one specific purpose. I am surprised too to see su= ch kind of proposals in a Standards track item which is likely to exist for= many years.

     

    Thanks,

    Pranjal

     

    From: Aissaoui= , Mustapha (Mustapha)
    Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 3:00 PM
    To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    Hi Rajiv,

    We did not properly close this discussion and I noticed th= e draft was updated to use the dual-stack capability TLV in Hellos as a way= to discover the LDP peer capability of handling IPv6 FECs and IPv6 addresses.

     

    I am very surprised that we are deviating from the main LD= P mechanism which is the LDP capability as per RFC 5561. Furthermore, we on= ly needed to discover the IPv6 FEC and IPv6 address capabilities at the session level and not at the Hello adjacency level. There is nothin= g which is specific to the adjacency here.

     

    The dual-stack capability TLV has nothing to do with the F= EC and address capability of an LSR, it is simply a way to handle preferenc= e for the control plane establishment of the Hello adjacency. It is not a good precedent that this would be overloaded to indicate FEC a= nd address capability advertisement which is orthogonal to adjacency establ= ishment.

     

    I strongly believe that we simply needed to use the existi= ng IPv6 capability described in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability, = which is extension of LDP capabilities defined in RFC 5561. We could also define another capability for the IPv6 addresses in that sam= e draft if really required but I do not think we needed to. There needs to = be only one method to do one thing and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability= is the way to go  for any IPv6 FEC related =93session=94 capabilities.

     

    To re-iterate, here is the proposal I made. Implementation= s complying to this draft must advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisemen= t control capability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability) in the initialization message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6 F= EC. Without the peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6= addresses and IPv6 FECs to that peer.

     

    There was one individual support for this proposal on this= mailing list and I thus consider the discussion was not properly closed.

     

    Regards,

    Mustapha.

     

    From: Dutta, P= ranjal K (Pranjal)
    Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:33 PM
    To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha); Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org;= mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short = wglc closed)

     

    I second to Mustaph= a. We should use features for what they are designed for. It is the SAC cap= ability (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) that defines the negotiation of IPV4/IPV6 Prefix FEC Capabilities in LDP session, which= fits into the required inter-op solution organically.

     

    I do not consider e= xplicit advertisement of IPv6 Prefix FEC SAC (D =3D 0) in Initialization me= ssage can be seen as baggage. An implementation that does not want to receive IPv6 Prefix FECs will send D=3D1 in Initialization mes= sage anyways.

     

    Cheers,<= /span>

    Pranjal<= /span>

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)
    Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57 AM
    To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
    Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short wglc cl= osed)

     

    Hi Rajiv,

    I think the key point I am trying to convey is th= at we should keep the protocol clean and use features for what they are des= igned for. LDP has its own capability advertisement and it is meant to addr= ess issues like this one.

     

    Overloading the TR field of the initialization me= ssage means that a peer will have to check both the TR and the SAC to decid= e what to do for the IPv6 prefix FEC while it is sufficient to check the SA= C for all other FEC types. This is inconsistent and will cause an unnecessary exception in the protocol.=

     

    Also, using the LDP advertisement capability is n= ot a baggage in the future. This mechanism is used with mLDP P2P and MP2MP = FECs and this is working fine today although many implementations now suppo= rt these types of FECs.

     

    As for changing other drafts, we are simply talki= ng about stating in draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07 that an LDP pee= r must set D-bit=3D0  in IPv6 prefix FEC SAC in the initialization mes= sage.

     

    Regards,

    Mustapha.

     

    > -----Original Message-----

    > From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [m= ailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

    > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:19 AM=

    > To: Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)=

    > Cc: Ross Callon; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;

    > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp- ipv6@tools.ietf.org

    > Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ie= tf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > wglc closed)

    >

    > Hi Mustapha,

    >

    > TR field is useful in case of dual-stack env= ironment and using it for

    > determining whether the peer implementation = is compliant (wrt handling

    > v6 address bindings and label bindings) is s= imple and straight forward.

    >

    > When v6-only peer implementations exist (and= become a new norm), TR

    > field usage would become moot. And we wouldn= 't have to see them. A

    > very good thing, IMO.

    >

    > We need to think about how much of this bagg= age needs to carry over

    > when single- stack ipv6 networks become a ne= w norm (like single-stack ipv4 has been).

    >

    > Given that this draft already has built-in m= eans to accommodate the

    > RFC5036 non- compliant peer issue and do so = in a simple manner, it is

    > not necessary to require changing other draf= ts, IMO.

    >

    >

    > Cheers,

    > Raj

    >

    >

    > PS; While there are multiple types of FECs, = and it would be wise to

    > dictate the default behavior (v6 FECs advert= ised) in v6-only

    > environment with an option to change it. Thi= s is nothing different from current protocol machinery.

    >

    >

    > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Aiss= aoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)"

    > <mu= stapha.aissaoui@alcatel-lucent .com> wrote:

    > >

    > > Hi Rajiv,

    > > See inline below for some follow-up.

    > >

    > > Regards,

    > > Mustapha.

    > >

    > >> -----Original Message-----

    > >> From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva) [mailto:rajiva@cisco.com]

    > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:= 19 PM

    > >> To: Ross Callon; Aissaoui, Mustapha= (Mustapha); mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >> Cc: mpls-c= hairs@tools.ietf.org;

    > >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

    > >> Subject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > >> wglc closed)

    > >>

    > >>

    > >> If this draft were to address the i= nteroperability with rfc5036

    > >> non-co= mpliant implementations, then it would be easier to rather

    > >> levera= ge the =8Ctransport preference=B9 TLV that is already part of the version 1= 3.

    > >> This T= LV was defined after the getting Adrian's and George=B9s feedback.

    > >>

    > >> http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6-13#section-6.1.

    > >> 1=

    > > MA> It = is not a good idea to overload this new TLV with a capability

    > > MA> adv= ertisement

    > role. LDP has i= ts own capability advertisement mechanism and there is

    > no need to conf= use implementations with the handling of two mechanisms.

    > >=

    > >> The re= ason for not agreeing to the alternate solution (of using IP

    > >> Prefix= capability

    > >> etc.) = is 2-fold:

    > >>

    > >> - not = forward compatible (consider a deployment 5 yrs from now -

    > >> IPv6-o= nly MPLS network - now, the LSR will be expecting an

    > >> unnece= ssary IPv6 prefix capability advertisement, and that=B9s not

    > >> optima= l, if not annoying)

    > > MA> IPv= 6-only network is not synonymous with a single FEC type

    > > MA> net= work. It will

    > support many ty= pes of FECs  in addition to the IPv6 prefix FEC: mLDP

    > IPv6 FECs, PW FECs, IPv4 prefix FEC, etc. The LDP capabilities have

    > been designed f= or the purpose of explicitly enabling or disabling

    > capabilities in= cluding FEC type support on a given session.

    > >=

    > >> - not = 100% backward compatible (does not solve the advertisement of

    > >> v6 add= ress binding to a v4 neighbor (which can also cause an outage

    > >> to a n= on-compliant peer))

    > > MA> I t= hink it makes sense to tie the exchange of both IPv6 address

    > > MA> mes= sages

    > and IPv6 prefix= FECs to the advertisement of the IPv6 capability by

    > both peers. If = however there is a use case for decoupling the

    > advertising of = IPv6 addresses from

    > IPv6 FECs, then= a separate capability can be devised for addresses but

    > I do not think = we need it.

    > >=

    > >=

    > >> Thanks= .

    > >>

    > >>

    > >> --

    > >> Cheers= ,

    > >> Rajiv = Asati

    > >> Distin= guished Engineer, Cisco

    > >>

    > >>

    > >>

    > >>

    > >>

    > >> -----O= riginal Message-----

    > >> From: = Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>

    > >> Date: = Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM

    > >> To: Mu= stapha Aissaoui <mustapha.aissaoui@al= catel-lucent.com>,

    > >> "= mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>

    > >> Cc: &q= uot;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" &l= t;mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,

    > >> "= draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.o= rg"

    > >> <draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6@tools.ietf.org= >

    > >> Subjec= t: RE: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > >> wglc

    > >> closed= )

    > >> Resent= -From: <draft-alias-bounces@tools.ietf.= org>

    > >> Resent= -To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>= ;, Rajiv Papneja

    > >> <rajiv.papneja@huawei.com>, Rajiv Asati &= lt;rajiva@cisco.com>, Vishwas

    > >> Manral= <vishwas.manral@hp.com>, <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson

    > >> <loa@pi.nu>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, MARTIN VIGOUREUX

    > >> <= martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>

    > >> Resent= -Date: Friday, August 22, 2014 at 4:35 PM

    > >>

    > >>>>= ; The proposed solution is to have implementations complying to

    > >>>>= ; this draft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

    > >>>>= ; capability

    > >>>>= ; (draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

    > >>>>= ; message explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

    > >>>>= ; peer advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

    > >>>>= ; addresses and FECs to that peer.

    > >>>

    > >>> Sp= eaking as an individual contributor, this seems IMHO to be the

    > >>> ri= ght solution (noting that, in final text as would be published

    > >>> in= an RFC, the "must not" in the last sentence should be capitalize= d).

    > >>>

    > >>> Th= anks, Ross

    > >>>

    > >>> --= ---Original Message-----

    > >>> Fr= om: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On B= ehalf Of Aissaoui,

    > >>> Mu= stapha

    > >>> (M= ustapha)

    > >>> Se= nt: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19 AM

    > >>> To= : mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >>> Cc= : mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

    > >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

    > >>> Su= bject: Re: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

    > >>> (s= hort wglc

    > >>> cl= osed)

    > >>>

    > >>> De= ar all,

    > >>> Th= e following are the details of the issue we found and the

    > >>> pr= oposed solution. We shared this first with the authors to get initial feedb= ack.

    > >>>

    > >>> Wh= en an LSR which supports LDP IPv6 according to this draft is in

    > >>> a = LAN with a broadcast interface, it can peer with LSRs which

    > >>> su= pport this draft and LSRs which do not. When it peers using IPv4

    > >>> LD= P control plane with an LSR which does not support this draft,

    > >>> we= have seen during our testing an issue that the advertisement of

    > >>> IP= v6 addresses or IPv6 FECs to that peer will cause it to bring

    > >>> do= wn the IPv4 LDP

    > session.

    > >>>

    > >>> In= other words, there are deployed LDP implementations which are

    > >>> co= mpliant to RFC 5036 for LDP IPv4 but are not compliant to RFC

    > >>> 50= 36 when it comes to handling IPv6 address or IPv6 FECs over an

    > >>> LD= P IPv4

    > session.

    > >>> Th= is is making us very concerned that when users enable dual-stack

    > >>> LD= P IPv4/IPv6, they will bring down LDP IPv4 sessions which have

    > >>> be= en working in a multi-vendor environments for so many years.

    > >>>

    > >>> Th= e proposed solution is to have implementations complying to this

    > >>> dr= aft advertise the IPv6 prefix state advertisement control

    > >>> ca= pability

    > >>> (d= raft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-07) in the initialization

    > >>> me= ssage explicitly indicating support for LDP IPv6. Without the

    > >>> pe= er advertising this capability, an LSR must not send IPv6

    > >>> ad= dresses and FECs to that peer.

    > >>>

    > >>> Th= is approach is safer and has been followed when mLDP FEC was

    > >>> in= troduced as explained in Section 2.1 of RFC 6388. Also, this

    > >>> do= es not introduce any new TLV to draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. It

    > >>> ju= st makes the exchange of LDP IPv6 addresses and FECs conditional

    > >>> to= both peers explicitly indicating support for IPv6 capability

    > >>> du= ring LDP session

    > initialization.=

    > >>>

    > >>> We= do not feel such a simple change justifies writing a new draft

    > >>> an= d having to deal with backward compatibility of implementations

    > >>> ac= ross two drafts.

    > >>>

    > >>> We= appreciate your comments on this matter.

    > >>>

    > >>> Re= gards,

    > >>> Mu= stapha.

    > >>>

    > >>>

    > >>>>= ; -----Original Message-----

    > >>>>= ; From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Loa

    > >>>>= ; Andersson

    > >>>>= ; Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:45 AM

    > >>>>= ; To: mpls@ietf.org<= /a>; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org;

    > >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-i= pv6@tools.ietf.org

    > >>>>= ; Subject: [mpls] Way to progress draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 (short

    > >>>>= ; wglc

    > >>>>= ; closed)

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; Working Group,

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; During what we thought would be a short wglc on

    > >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6

    > >>>>= ; http://www.ietf.org/m= ail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg12464.html

    > >>>>= ; we had a comment that stopped us from continuing progressing the draft.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; The short working group last call is now closed!

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; The comment we refer to was raised in a private mail to the

    > >>>>= ; working group chairs and the draft authors.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; It says that there are a problem with some RFC 5036 non-compliant

    > >>>>= ; implementations deployed and draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6. There is

    > >>>>= ; no detailed description of the exact problems.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; We strongly encourage the people that made the comment(s) to

    > >>>>= ; write-up the problem, either as

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; - a new draft (preferred); or

    > >>>>= ; - in a mail to the working group mailing list

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; Once we an agreement to write a new draft or the write-up to the

    > >>>>= ; mailing, we will continue to ask the working group to see if we

    > >>>>= ; can agree to a way to progress. We like to see this write-up

    > >>>>= ; before September 1. Failing this we will continue to progress the

    > >>>>= ; draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6 as is.

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; /Loa

    > >>>>= ; for the working group chairs

    > >>>>= ; --

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; Loa Andersson          =             &nb= sp; email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

    > >>>>= ; Senior MPLS Expert         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    loa@pi.nu

    > >>>>= ; Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 7= 39 81 21 64

    > >>>>= ;

    > >>>>= ; _______________________________________________

    > >>>>= ; mpls mailing list

    > >>>>= ; mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >>>>= ; https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

    > >>>

    > >>> __= _____________________________________________

    > >>> mp= ls mailing list

    > >>> mpls@ietf.org<= /a>

    > >>> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/mpls

    > >=

     

    ____________________= ___________________________

    mpls mailing list

    mpls@ietf.org

    https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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[2001:67c:370:160:8c00:4de4:cd00:c8f2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ht9sm22882500wib.8.2014.11.12.11.58.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:58:18 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:58:20 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> To: huubatwork@gmail.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/DVdrtznQMsooh0hWhtfer-TS5TU Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:58:28 -0000 Hi Huub, > On Nov 1, 2014, at 06:01 , Huub van Helvoort = wrote: >=20 > Hello Kireeti, >=20 > I also did a careful reading of this draft. >=20 > I agree with Greg that the failure of a node is not covered. My aim is to treat link and node failures the same way. I don=E2=80=99t = see much difference in how one would respond, but I=E2=80=99m happy to = listen to other opinions. > I also notice that you did not cover that a second failure > (link/node) that splits the ring in two islands. > In this case the protection in effect in each of the islands > should be maintained. You may have the same issue as detected > by Greg for a single node failure. Understood. > I also notice that during the process of changing DS to US > at each node MPLS packets may get lost or get out of order. > Is my interpretation correct? That is correct. I think that is the case for all protection schemes; = certainly for MPLS protection schemes. Cheers, KIreeti > Cheers, Huub. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > ***************************************************************** > = =E8=AF=B7=E8=AE=B0=E4=BD=8F=EF=BC=8C=E4=BD=A0=E6=98=AF=E7=8B=AC=E4=B8=80=E6= =97=A0=E4=BA=8C=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=B0=B1=E5=83=8F=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E6=AF= =8F=E4=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E4=B8=80=E6=A0=B7 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Wed Nov 12 12:07:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C401A877B for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:06:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b4ti7SmgRYKd for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com (mail-wi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF70C1A8546 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id hi2so6072334wib.7 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:06:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=H1QhaAj8XRWIqj3ztzS8+pDmSPYXEzitTMxHJSiSoVA=; b=D6dRvGd1U9CMUW+h/N0PsTbd2SRzzsSTrWWykoUOZn6IElXKqFDsyewx3+o8zoDvrt GFOBnTqWprzfUnErJ5cPc0B4d7XSlvL9QkENPZX+Zj+/qkiL7hI4S3PIsx/AlLBT+OZ/ 5894BJjwJpPFuTNydHbUauojku/YaQZ64yt3nC7OtZRHi43mh+yuYm1oBC5PXs8Ztihy idttOXO5nwjNb226OMpZARUEZyGFaegQVxqhBXm7aMhmt5oh2jB8NzLSX+2SyOIfgPAd 4ZhsVTowaBBu1DcBzuQRsN7zn1RZTbc8O3fLPj20oZAZMhLvShzlO/eyNHyX1nOXdula qS0A== X-Received: by 10.180.219.106 with SMTP id pn10mr53970198wic.63.1415822778687; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c037001608c004de4cd00c8f2.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c037001608c004de4cd00c8f2.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org. [2001:67c:370:160:8c00:4de4:cd00:c8f2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gy4sm22916722wib.11.2014.11.12.12.06.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:06:17 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_11370CB0-2FB0-4231-90A3-F438FDFF3861" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:06:20 -1000 Message-Id: References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B877A1F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> To: Gregory Mirsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PZPAW9dacFaWyJDteFEjspFgXpg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:06:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_11370CB0-2FB0-4231-90A3-F438FDFF3861 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Greg, > On Nov 1, 2014, at 17:39 , Gregory Mirsky = wrote: >=20 > Hi Kireeti, > thank you for your kind consideration, much appreciated. > Of course, TTL will break the loop and setting it to precise value may = be one solution. But, as Huub pointed, if ring experienced double = failure loop still exist though less severe. And since nodes may be = added and removed from the ring dynamically every node must be aware of = number of nodes in that ring. Do you think it is important to deal with dynamic changes during = protection? > Thus I personally prefer option #3, (Extended) Special Purpose Label = (that we can name later). The possible drawback, as with any new (E)SPL = cases, is that it becomes new capability that now must be advertised as = such. I suggested the (E)SPL option, but current reality is that all LSRs = support TTL processing; it will take time for the SPL approach to be = implemented in forwarding engines. > But I agree, let=E2=80=99s list all three options as these are sound = technical solutions to the realistic scenario and any of TTL based may = be used by itself or in combination with (E)SPL. Good, I will do that. > (E)SPL may be used only if ring is homogeneous in regard to this = capability. Actually, for node failure, SPL can be used when the nodes adjacent to = the egress support the SPL. But to address Huub=E2=80=99s point (double = failure), every node would have to support the SPL. Cheers, Kireeti. > =20 > Regards, > Greg > =20 > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 6:37 PM > To: Gregory Mirsky > Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > =20 > Hi Greg, > =20 > On Oct 30, 2014, at 16:21 , Gregory Mirsky = > = wrote: > =20 > Hi Kireeti, > I think that proposed in this document protection method creates some = unpleasant scenario if failure is of a node, not a link. If I use the = scenario presented in Section 3.6 but assume that the failure is not of = the link between R_j and R_j+1 but of the node Rj+1. Thus, as R_j = switches to US direction, the R_j+2 will switch to DS. And until = notifications from R_j and R_j+2 reach R_j+2 and R_j respectively we = have routing loop on RL_j+1 LSP. > =20 > I appreciate your careful reading! Note of course that since there is = a TTL, this is a finite loop (not saying it isn=E2=80=99t bad, but that = this has the germ of the solution.) > =20 > I have three solutions for this problem. I didn=E2=80=99t put them in = the first version of the draft; I may eventually document all (and = others, as the WG chimes in), but meanwhile this discussion is perfect. > =20 > My preferred solution is to always insert packets on a ring LSP with = TTL =3D 2N-1 if the ring has N nodes. This is enough for the worst case = =E2=80=94 node R_j sends a packet on RL_j+1 the =E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D = way around, only to encounter a failure at node R_j+2, and come all the = way back to R_j, then R_j+1. > =20 > Another solution is that an ingress node sets the TTL as usual, but a = PLR sets the TTL to the smaller of the current TTL-1 and the minimum TTL = required to reach the egress. So, in the above example, R_j would set = TTL as usual, but R_j+2, on detecting a failure, would set TTL =3D N-1 = and send it the other way. In this case, when the packet gets back to = R_j, it should not in turn reset the TTL to N-1. Of course, both of the = above can be combined. > =20 > Finally, a PLR (R_j+2) can push a special purpose label to indicate = that this is a failure path, then push the label to go the other way. = If the packet goes back to R_j, before R_j sends it the other way, it = sees that the label below the top of stack is this failure label, and = drops the packet rather than cycle it back around the ring. > =20 > If my assumptions are correct, then notification mechanism MUST be = reliable or be backed up by IGP signaling. In any case, the loop may = persist for quite a while and affect all services. > =20 > Agreed, having a reliable notification mechanism is always a good = thing. >=20 >=20 > Comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated. > =20 > Greg, since you worked out the problem, do you have any opinions on = the solutions above, or any of your own? > =20 > Cheers, > Kireeti. > =20 > Regards, > Greg > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Kireeti Kompella > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:41 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > =20 > Hi Folks, > =20 > This is a draft on making MPLS more efficient in ring networks. I = have come around to understanding that: > a) rings are a special topology (there was a time that I didn't = appreciate that); > b) MPLS is pretty inefficient in rings (that is/was quite obvious). > =20 > This draft attempts to fix that, both by making protection much more = efficient, and by making configuration much easier. > =20 > Your comments are highly welcome! > =20 > Cheers, > Kireeti. > =20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > > Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > To: Kireeti Kompella > >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Kireeti Kompella and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-kompella-mpls-rmr > Revision: 00 > Title: Resilient MPLS Rings > Document date: 2014-10-26 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 7 > URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr/ = > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 = >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the use of the MPLS control and data planes > on ring topologies. It describes the special nature of rings, and > proceeds to show how MPLS can be effectively used in such = topologies. > It describes how MPLS rings are configured, auto-discovered and > signaled, as well as how the data plane works. Companion documents > describe the details of discovery and signaling for specific > protocols. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org = . >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > --=20 > Kireeti > =20 --Apple-Mail=_11370CB0-2FB0-4231-90A3-F438FDFF3861 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Greg,

    On = Nov 1, 2014, at 17:39 , Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:

    Hi Kireeti,

    thank you for your kind consideration, = much appreciated.

    Of course, TTL will break the loop and = setting it to precise value may be one solution. But, as Huub pointed, = if ring experienced double failure loop still exist though less severe. And since nodes may be added and removed from = the ring dynamically every node must be aware of number of nodes in that = ring.


    Do you think it is important to deal with dynamic = changes during protection?

    Thus I personally prefer option #3, = (Extended) Special Purpose Label (that we can name later). The possible = drawback, as with any new (E)SPL cases, is that it becomes new capability that now must be advertised as = such.


    I suggested the (E)SPL option, but current reality = is that all LSRs support TTL processing; it will take time for the SPL = approach to be implemented in forwarding engines.

    But I agree, let=E2=80=99s list all = three options as these are sound technical solutions to the realistic = scenario and any of TTL based may be used by itself or in combination with (E)SPL.


    Good, I will do that.

    (E)SPL may be used only if ring is = homogeneous in regard to this = capability.


    Actually, for node failure, SPL can be used when = the nodes adjacent to the egress support the SPL.  But to address = Huub=E2=80=99s point (double failure), every node would have to support = the SPL.

    Cheers,
    Kireeti.

     

              &nb= sp;     Regards,

              &nb= sp;            = ;         Greg

     

    From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com]
    Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 6:37 PM
    To: Gregory Mirsky
    Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt

     

    Hi Greg,

     

    On Oct 30, 2014, at 16:21 , = Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:

     

    Hi Kireeti,

    I think that proposed in this document = protection method creates some unpleasant scenario if failure is of a = node, not a link. If I use the scenario presented in Section 3.6 but assume that the failure is not of the link between = R_j and R_j+1 but of the node Rj+1. Thus, as R_j switches to US = direction, the R_j+2 will switch to DS. And until notifications from R_j = and R_j+2 reach R_j+2 and R_j respectively we have routing loop on RL_j+1 LSP.

     

    I appreciate your careful = reading!  Note of course that since there is a TTL, this is a = finite loop (not saying it isn=E2=80=99t bad, but that this has the germ = of the solution.)

     

    I have three solutions for this = problem. I didn=E2=80=99t put them in the first version of the draft; I = may eventually document all (and others, as the WG chimes in), but = meanwhile this discussion is perfect.

     

    My preferred solution is to = always insert packets on a ring LSP with TTL =3D 2N-1 if the ring has N = nodes.  This is enough for the worst case =E2=80=94 node R_j sends = a packet on RL_j+1 the =E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D way around, only to = encounter a failure at node R_j+2, and come all the way back to R_j, then R_j+1.

     

    Another solution is that an = ingress node sets the TTL as usual, but a PLR sets the TTL to the = smaller of the current TTL-1 and the minimum TTL required to reach the = egress.    So, in the above example, R_j would set TTL as = usual, but R_j+2, on detecting a failure, would set TTL =3D N-1 and send it the other = way.  In this case, when the packet gets back to R_j, it should not = in turn reset the TTL to N-1.  Of course, both of the above can be = combined.

     

    Finally, a PLR (R_j+2) can push a = special purpose label to indicate that this is a failure path, then push = the label to go the other way.  If the packet goes back to R_j, = before R_j sends it the other way, it sees that the label below the top of stack is this failure label, and drops the packet rather than = cycle it back around the ring.

     

    If my assumptions are correct, then = notification mechanism MUST be reliable or be backed up by IGP = signaling. In any case, the loop may persist for quite a while and affect all services.

     

    Agreed, having a reliable = notification mechanism is always a good thing.



    Comments, questions are always welcome = and greatly appreciated.

     

    Greg, since you worked out the = problem, do you have any opinions on the solutions above, or any of your = own?

     

    Cheers,

    Kireeti.

     

             =        Regards,

              &nb= sp;            = ;         Greg

     

    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kireeti Kompella
    Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:41 AM
    To: mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt

     

    Hi Folks,

    =

     

    This is a draft on making MPLS = more efficient in ring networks.  I have come around to = understanding that:

    a) rings are a special topology = (there was a time that I didn't appreciate that);

    b) MPLS is pretty inefficient in = rings (that is/was quite obvious).

     

    This draft attempts to fix that, = both by making protection much more efficient, and by making = configuration much easier.

     

    Your comments are highly = welcome!

     

    Cheers,

    Kireeti.

     

    ---------- Forwarded message = ----------
    From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
    Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM
    Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
    To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti.kompella@gmail.com>



    A new version of I-D, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
    has been successfully submitted by Kireeti Kompella and posted to the
    IETF repository.

    Name:           draft-kompella-mpls-rmr
    Revision:       00
    Title:          Resilient MPLS Rings
    Document date:  2014-10-26
    Group:          Individual Submission
    Pages:          7
    URL:            = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
    Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr/ Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00


    Abstract:
       This document describes the use of the MPLS control and = data planes
       on ring topologies.  It describes the special nature = of rings, and
       proceeds to show how MPLS can be effectively used in such = topologies.
       It describes how MPLS rings are configured, auto-discovered = and
       signaled, as well as how the data plane works.  = Companion documents
       describe the details of discovery and signaling for = specific
       protocols.





    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
    until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

    The IETF Secretariat



     

    --
    Kireeti

     


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dFjkmfbJJEU2 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:33:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE6971AD3D6 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:33:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLO36183; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:33:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:33:42 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.18]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 05:33:38 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "kireeti.kompella@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41Fg== Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:33:37 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.155.168] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68NKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/f72gPM9BWDXzQpqGXuOWpZkpltE Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:33:50 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kireeti, I have read your draft and found it's very interesting. I wonder whether it's possible to introduce the idea of the RPR (Resilient = Packet Ring) technology into the MPLS-enabled ring networks. For instance, = for a given node on a ring, it has two types of interfaces, one is ring-int= erface and the other is non-ring-interface. In addition, the ring-interface= is either eastward or westward. When receiving an MPLS packet from a non-r= ing interface, if the next-hop of that MPLS packet is one of its adjacent p= eers on the ring, it would impose a label indicating clock-wise forwarding = or count-clock-wise forwarding accordingly. When receiving an MPLS packet w= ith the top label being the label indicating clock-wise or counter-clock-wi= se forwarding, unless the next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the lab= el below that top label is itself or a peer which is connected via a non-ri= ng interface (i.e., the packet would pop off the ring), that packet should = be forwarding according to the top label, e.g., if the top label indicates = clock-wise forwarding, it would be forwarded in the clock-wise direction. The label indicating clock-wise or count-clock-wise forwarding could be an = SPL or a local label which is advertised by each ring node. If that label i= s a local label, it should be swapped accordingly on each hop of the ring. = When the packet received from a adjacent peer on the ring should pop off th= at ring, the top label indicating clock-wise or count-clock-wise forwarding= should be stripped before performing the further MPLS forwarding process. Best regards, Xiaohu --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Kireeti,

     

    I have read your draft and foun= d it’s very interesting.

     

    I wonder whether it’s pos= sible to introduce the idea of the RPR (Resilient Packet Ring) technology i= nto the MPLS-enabled ring networks. For instance, for a given node on a rin= g, it has two types of interfaces, one is ring-interface and the other is non-ring-interface. In addition, the ring-= interface is either eastward or westward. When receiving an MPLS packet fro= m a non-ring interface, if the next-hop of that MPLS packet is one of its a= djacent peers on the ring, it would impose a label indicating clock-wise forwarding or count-clock-wise forwar= ding accordingly. When receiving an MPLS packet with the top label being th= e label indicating clock-wise or counter-clock-wise forwarding, unless the = next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the label below that top label is itself or a peer which is connected v= ia a non-ring interface (i.e., the packet would pop off the ring), that pac= ket should be forwarding according to the top label, e.g., if the top label= indicates clock-wise forwarding, it would be forwarded in the clock-wise direction.

     

    The label indicating clock-wise= or count-clock-wise forwarding could be an SPL or a local label which is a= dvertised by each ring node. If that label is a local label, it should be s= wapped accordingly on each hop of the ring. When the packet received from a adjacent peer on the ring should pop= off that ring, the top label indicating clock-wise or count-clock-wise for= warding should be stripped before performing the further MPLS forwarding pr= ocess.

     

    Best regards,=

    Xiaohu

    --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68NKGEML512MBSchi_-- From nobody Wed Nov 12 17:36:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA23B1A00AD for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:36:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EfwvQFjQi09r for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55021A0282 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:36:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141113013643.3830.59916.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:36:43 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/MqnHPt2vKAs9H7B5o_yXprZbycE Subject: [mpls] Milestones changed for mpls WG X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 01:36:46 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-deprecate-bgp-entropy-label for publication", resolved as "Done". Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding for publication", resolved as "Done". Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp", resolved as "Done". URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/ From nobody Wed Nov 12 17:45:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596ED1A0469 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:45:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lx42qfNhGgNm for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81FE1A1A6F for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:45:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141113014537.1657.49639.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:45:37 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/c3na7GQxOPTKcyVVePHpMZFXqPM Subject: [mpls] Milestones changed for mpls WG X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 01:45:40 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability for publication", resolved as "Done". Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping fpr publication", set due date to January 2015 from September 2014. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/ From nobody Wed Nov 12 17:54:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85851A1AA4 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:54:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLIZKVdMYSX1 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF441A1AA1 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:54:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141113015430.8933.31294.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:54:30 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/FE1FAJkvOg4GWxIvUlahJIBYfxo Subject: [mpls] Milestones changed for mpls WG X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 01:54:31 -0000 URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/ From nobody Wed Nov 12 18:35:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58ADA1A1B1D for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:35:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0mHIDEbgpJbH for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:35:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EAD1A1B1F for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:35:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141113023516.10772.11512.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:35:16 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/VG3Zb1Lti5Jr8n5VhNUKYLxB40U Subject: [mpls] Milestones changed for mpls WG X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 02:35:20 -0000 Changed milestone "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone, set description to "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap for publication". Changed milestone "draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone, set description to "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry for publication". URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/ From nobody Thu Nov 13 00:12:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90AAC1A3BA5 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:12:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sB1SpoAoUIez for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 293D51A1B8B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLO76041; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:12:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:12:31 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.22]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:12:28 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Kireeti Kompella , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHP85+BXc8zMxj8Ik2Mr1vArzJdO5xeOwQw Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:12:27 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C92733766A54@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: 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[80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cr6sm28614123wjb.44.2014.11.13.07.56.30 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:56:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:56:29 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/n9xRCkCviy4FN-2lb-TFcyl24Bw Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:56:36 -0000 Hello Kireeti, See my response in-line [hh] >> I also did a careful reading of this draft. >> >> I agree with Greg that the failure of a node is not covered. > > My aim is to treat link and node failures the same way. > I don’t see much difference in how one would respond, > but I’m happy to listen to other opinions. [hh] If I understand the draft well enough: node J detects failure of the link JK between node J and K (whether that is due to link JK failure or node K failure does not matter). Node J switches traffic from US to DS and sens a message DS to node K (unaware of the possibility that node K has failed). Node L receives the message, but cannot forward it to the failed node K. What happens in this case? >> I also notice that you did not cover that a second failure >> (link/node) that splits the ring in two islands. >> In this case the protection in effect in each of the islands >> should be maintained. You may have the same issue as detected >> by Greg for a single node failure. > > Understood. [hh] OK. >> I also notice that during the process of changing DS to US >> at each node MPLS packets may get lost or get out of order. >> Is my interpretation correct? > > That is correct. I think that is the case for all protection > schemes; certainly for MPLS protection schemes. [hh] what is described in your draft I would call "steering" at the ingress node. draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection used "wrapping" Wrapping has the advantage that packets are lost only during the defect detection time. Steering has additional time, the switch times at every node between the node detecting the failure until the DS message reaches the ingress node. Cheers, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Thu Nov 13 08:02:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C44B1A8A25 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:02:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RMjpTlUU3M8d for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:02:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22b.google.com (mail-wi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 323FC1A8A17 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f171.google.com with SMTP id r20so8796339wiv.4 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:02:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5zbynuzcbdJhILdvhmH9rRKCGabQvD4VJyfDkYIPBwA=; b=OQGSlxqQ9qg31FzsEjeplS6gKEVJOjVxPJqXkFqNHNjysHSGAeMD1LPenT1BTus65u r/B7qTGU9e7JkvTz0dVuObqGguxE0im4apy4CTuS0RLkskgEbKb/OCscgUtxnZAJQy1u kOgt+4kAJw0GOce2TSrWxnlqlShA2QspqrprTiYT1Z+pnQCZCIm93WL3rU3vLJu9N4sH pwZVa+EOZOQh8whLGkKHfg9ZKMwd9xs8AYE9FWs5vmG7lY+ocgZ2HVERgz02PvsVR7Dj E7C5xqYQMrrNwjBvgiWHr0VC1IlegRoJsq0uUf+cEJNh/H3Inu4dnhKOZXQ1i1FeBeh9 aQEA== X-Received: by 10.180.7.135 with SMTP id j7mr4891174wia.79.1415894539218; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gw6sm26218141wib.8.2014.11.13.08.02.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:02:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5464D609.1030700@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:02:17 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/-VLQ8r7--4L9ianJ4BivAANjOYQ Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:02:28 -0000 Hello Xuxiaohu, 您好 You wrote: > I have read your draft and found it’s very interesting. > > I wonder whether it’s possible to introduce the idea of the RPR > (Resilient Packet Ring) technology into the MPLS-enabled ring networks. RPR is designed specifically for connectionless technologies like native Ethernet and IP. MPLS is connection oriented, applying RPR may be very complex. 祝好，best regards, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Thu Nov 13 08:38:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23B31A8A7F for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:38:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TLAYne_BMgNT for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.bemta8.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta8.messagelabs.com [216.82.243.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with 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with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D50E81A8ABD for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:15:10 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-88-54648bed95e7 Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 09.BD.25146.DEB84645; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:46:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:14:34 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgAxIZeAAAgH4sA= Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:14:33 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B880303@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5464D609.1030700@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5464D609.1030700@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuO677pQQg3Od4hYzZl9mtbi1dCWr A5PHzll32T2WLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJUx/8x9loJ93BWPFzxmbWCcwd3FyMkhIWAi 0bRnHzuELSZx4d56ti5GLg4hgSOMEsfOPWKGcJYzSvSdfMwCUsUmYCTxYmMPWIeIQIhE6+bP jCC2sICexNrWx8wQcX2J1sWtjBC2lcS8y1/ZQGwWAVWJj5M2g8V5BXwlrmyBmCMkUCIxd8Z1 sPmcApoS83YfBathBLro+6k1TCA2s4C4xK0n85kgLhWQWLLnPDOELSrx8vE/VghbSWLO62tA cQ6gek2J9bv0IVoVJaZ0P2SHWCsocXLmE5YJjKKzkEydhdAxC0nHLCQdCxhZVjFylBanluWm GxluYgTGwjEJNscdjAs+WR5iFOBgVOLhNViXHCLEmlhWXJl7iFGag0VJnFezel6wkEB6Yklq dmpqQWpRfFFpTmrxIUYmDk6pBkb5e0v8V3svcv5xU8f3yqweO8Mg9rvFc+xP2oZcKb5y2kLP 9cTBLdo+Gsvbg77oFLT8PvGz0bDm0vVdC/8ycZtdkFx07cEBvW2/gu7ylqe/8/i349u9TXoZ 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12:06:40 -0700 Received: from USIDCWVEMBX08.corp.global.level3.com ([fe80::20f7:9e5b:2efa:2ad8]) by usadcwveht01.corp.global.level3.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:06:39 -0500 From: "Osborne, Eric" To: "LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN)" , "Alexander Vainshtein" , "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: AQHP/2EqNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41Fpxe6oQAgAAAZ7A= Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:06:38 +0000 Message-ID: <63CB93BC589C1B4BAFDB41A0A19B7ACDFE16FC@USIDCWVEMBX08.corp.global.level3.com> References: <017fdc7b802a41caad7953a5bd73da6d@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.196.207] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/QR05hbMdJiD4Ph1PrENop-yxawI Subject: Re: [mpls] 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ZXRmLm9yZyA8bWFpbHRvOm1wbHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tcGxzDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IG1wbHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IG1wbHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgPG1h aWx0bzptcGxzQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL21wbHMNCg0K From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:19:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B35C1AC3ED for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:19:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3nSJT2WBl7mG for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B57BD1A8720 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:12:10 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-c6-5464a7576347 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DD.95.25146.757A4645; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:43:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:12:07 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN)" , "Alexander Vainshtein" , "Osborne, Eric" , "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: AQHP/2EqNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FpxfPleA//+tiiA= Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:06 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B8805CD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <017fdc7b802a41caad7953a5bd73da6d@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B8805CDeusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFuplkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLrHTzd8eUqIwdMuY4upWz8wW7Rd/8pk MWP2ZVaLUxN2MlrcWrqS1YHVo/XZXlaPTf+OM3rsnHWX3WPJkp9MHjebP7AEsEZx2aSk5mSW pRbp2yVwZWyb8JW1YNFsxopVPyoaGCdMZ+xi5OSQEDCRWHziCAuELSZx4d56ti5GLg4hgSOM Ens/fmeFcJYzSixc3g5WxSZgJPFiYw87SEJE4A+jxIdFM8ASwgJ6EmtbHzOD2CIC+hKti1sZ IWwriaXNR9lBbBYBVYmeub+YQGxeAV+Jn4s3s0Ns6GaUWDDhFRtIglPAXmLDkT6wBkagm76f WgPWwCwgLnHryXwmiFsFJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCVpL4+Hs+O0R9vsS3iZcYIZYJSpyc+YRl AqPILCSjZiEpm4WkbBYjB1BcU2L9Ln2IEkWJKd0P2SFsDYnWOXPZkcUXMLKvYuQoLU4ty003 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-0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE6891ACD55 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.167.213] (dhcp-a7d5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.167.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C9DDE180006E; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:22:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <546504EB.2030509@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:22:19 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN)" , Alexander Vainshtein , "Osborne, Eric" , "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" References: <017fdc7b802a41caad7953a5bd73da6d@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/kDlRuUZtvF45LPK6v0BBx-Qst_Y Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:25:55 -0000 Lieven, et.al., Maybe because the different control planes makes the data plane behave different? I think it is worth looking into the RPR as Xiaohu suggested. Also we should follow up what Jie Dong said about aligning different ring protection draft. What we said before is that we might do solutions for specific topologies if it comes with enough advantages, for shared ring I believe this is adequately demonstrated and the rmr has a bit to go. Maybe it would be best to team up on that work als.. /Loa On 2014-11-13 20:04, LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN) wrote: > Interesting – question for clarification: > why is a control plane aspect dictating how the data plane will be > connection oriented or not? > > Unless the definition of connection oriented technologies have a control > plane aspect that I am not aware off > ./ > Lieven > > From: Alexander Vainshtein > > Date: Thursday 13 November 2014 17:45 > To: "Osborne, Eric" >, "huubatwork@gmail.com > " >, "mpls@ietf.org " > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 > > Could not express this better... > > Eric, > > Lots of thanks! > > Thumb typed on my LG, > Sasha > > ------ Original message ------ > *From: *Osborne, Eric > *Date: *13/11/2014 18:38 > *To: *huubatwork@gmail.com ;mpls@ietf.org > ; > *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 > > MPLS-TE and -TP are connection oriented. LDP is not; if RPR works for > IP it ought to work with LDP. > > > > > > eric > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Huub van Helvoort >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:02 AM >> To:mpls@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 >> >> Hello Xuxiaohu, 您好 >> >> You wrote: >> >> > I have read your draft and found it’s very interesting. >> > >> > I wonder whether it’s possible to introduce the idea of the RPR >> > (Resilient Packet Ring) technology into the MPLS-enabled ring networks. >> >> RPR is designed specifically for connectionless technologies like native >> Ethernet and IP. >> >> MPLS is connection oriented, applying RPR may be very complex. >> >> 祝好，best regards, Huub. >> >> >> -- >> ********************************************************** >> ******* >> 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:19:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2C61ACFB8 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:19:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7QcbLalFqX_q for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22b.google.com (mail-wi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0DE81ACF9C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f171.google.com with SMTP id r20so711756wiv.10 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:17:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=CqxMc2sjjeLm8cLwcH+W7azRTtCmEhnRpLPfaMnm3MU=; b=NsLS99CC/EGjulqvi8N8Y0q9qKoYZJCaxVj/NC1kETIxtuoiQShAXnB6E8U6EjNGbN iyg+5pWBGiB3BfRtWCQ+kcofIQWdMgTI7WgVMjFGnf39/n1mI5tnLBNgCDGVlbIFUo5A 7d8OkV1TRJ18fWRuc7MXrhMklGLOgx7obBvuiQ7FcUhgB3jSRXDa+iegMOOmW8tx0Zx0 9woNS7vyhPwF+AOzsnqY2BPubIg1PgwMbeIKmlDE864SbTQ/c/EZ14N0mfqWS+jWdyDm dDZBKk0JSYbN0tYhVSUzNwXKTggb/n09r1sW4IEgQGPIOPuhDQYo/VA8zVbRZts9ObWn sNbw== X-Received: by 10.180.150.138 with SMTP id ui10mr1461011wib.32.1415909836493; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c037001606c37889e6dad9773.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c037001606c37889e6dad9773.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org. [2001:67c:370:160:6c37:889e:6dad:9773]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wr9sm36822767wjb.42.2014.11.13.12.17.13 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:17:15 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C94C5812-8E3F-4F60-AD9C-CBC2B80758DD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -1000 Message-Id: <7D8D4D1D-554C-472B-9596-380C19F98738@gmail.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Xuxiaohu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Tg4M9noG2KvA3cS1edNcgaQOUas Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:19:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C94C5812-8E3F-4F60-AD9C-CBC2B80758DD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Xiaohu, On Nov 12, 2014, at 11:33 , Xuxiaohu wrote: > Hi Kireeti, > =20 > I have read your draft and found it=E2=80=99s very interesting. Thank you! > I wonder whether it=E2=80=99s possible to introduce the idea of the = RPR (Resilient Packet Ring) technology into the MPLS-enabled ring = networks. For instance, for a given node on a ring, it has two types of = interfaces, one is ring-interface and the other is non-ring-interface. = In addition, the ring-interface is either eastward or westward. When = receiving an MPLS packet from a non-ring interface, if the next-hop of = that MPLS packet is one of its adjacent peers on the ring, it would = impose a label indicating clock-wise forwarding or count-clock-wise = forwarding accordingly. When receiving an MPLS packet with the top label = being the label indicating clock-wise or counter-clock-wise forwarding, = unless the next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the label below = that top label is itself or a peer which is connected via a non-ring = interface (i.e., the packet would pop off the ring), that packet should = be forwarding according to the top label, e.g., if the top label = indicates clock-wise forwarding, it would be forwarded in the clock-wise = direction.=20 > =20 > The label indicating clock-wise or count-clock-wise forwarding could = be an SPL or a local label which is advertised by each ring node. If = that label is a local label, it should be swapped accordingly on each = hop of the ring. When the packet received from a adjacent peer on the = ring should pop off that ring, the top label indicating clock-wise or = count-clock-wise forwarding should be stripped before performing the = further MPLS forwarding process. Good comment. Let me see if I understand. Let=E2=80=99s say that the = ring has N nodes. The way I would do this, each node has 2*(N-1) labels = to reach each of the other (N-1) nodes in the two directions (CW or = CCW). What you are suggesting is to have a two-label stack; the outer label = says CW or CCW; the inner label says what the egress ring node is. So, = each node has (N-1) inner labels. So, you are optimizing 2*(N-1) to (N-1) by using hierarchy. Is N large = enough to make this worthwhile? Note that "unless the next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the = label below that top label is itself=E2=80=9D is a non-trivial = forwarding step. I.e., each node needs to look at two labels to = determine how to forward the packet. However, to reach non-ring nodes, I fully support using hierarchy. Cheers, Kireeti. > Best regards, > Xiaohu --Apple-Mail=_C94C5812-8E3F-4F60-AD9C-CBC2B80758DD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    Hi Xiaohu,

    On Nov 12, 2014, at 11:33 , Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>= wrote:

    Hi Kireeti,
     
    I have read your = draft and found it=E2=80=99s very = interesting.

    Thank you!

    I wonder whether it=E2=80=99s possible to introduce the idea = of the RPR (Resilient Packet Ring) technology into the MPLS-enabled ring = networks. For instance, for a given node on a ring, it has two types of = interfaces, one is ring-interface and the other is non-ring-interface. = In addition, the ring-interface is either eastward or westward. When = receiving an MPLS packet from a non-ring interface, if the next-hop of = that MPLS packet is one of its adjacent peers on the ring, it would = impose a label indicating clock-wise forwarding or count-clock-wise = forwarding accordingly. When receiving an MPLS packet with the top label = being the label indicating clock-wise or counter-clock-wise forwarding, = unless the next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the label below = that top label is itself or a peer which is connected via a non-ring = interface (i.e., the packet would pop off the ring), that packet should = be forwarding according to the top label, e.g., if the top label = indicates clock-wise forwarding, it would be forwarded in the clock-wise = direction. 
     
    The label = indicating clock-wise or count-clock-wise forwarding could be an SPL or = a local label which is advertised by each ring node. If that label is a = local label, it should be swapped accordingly on each hop of the ring. = When the packet received from a adjacent peer on the ring should pop off = that ring, the top label indicating clock-wise or count-clock-wise = forwarding should be stripped before performing the further MPLS = forwarding process.

    Good comment.  Let me see if I understand. =  Let=E2=80=99s say that the ring has N nodes.  The way I would = do this, each node has 2*(N-1) labels to reach each of the other (N-1) = nodes in the two directions (CW or CCW).

    What you are suggesting is to have a two-label = stack; the outer label says CW or CCW; the inner label says what the = egress ring node is.  So, each node has (N-1) inner = labels.

    So, you are optimizing = 2*(N-1) to (N-1) by using hierarchy.  Is N large enough to make = this worthwhile?

    Note that "unless the next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by = the label below that top label is itself=E2=80=9D is a = non-trivial forwarding step.  I.e., each node needs to look at two = labels to determine how to forward the packet.

    However, to reach non-ring nodes, I fully = support using hierarchy.

    Cheers,
    Kireeti.

    Best regards,
    Xiaohu

    = --Apple-Mail=_C94C5812-8E3F-4F60-AD9C-CBC2B80758DD-- From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:23:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC091ACFAF for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:22:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q7TAlajROloA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw1-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw1-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0992B1AD025 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,379,1413270000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="50856380" Received: from irvexchcas08.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.57]) by mail-gw1-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2014 13:57:35 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.16) by IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:23:09 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:22:46 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: Kireeti Kompella , Xuxiaohu Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgBAUXQAABCZU+A= Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:22:46 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A69B@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <7D8D4D1D-554C-472B-9596-380C19F98738@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7D8D4D1D-554C-472B-9596-380C19F98738@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A69BSJEXCHMB12corpa_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/OR6KQYi24JU6c8hGBICi_YIvOWs Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:22:53 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:22:53 -0000 --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A69BSJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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[31.133.165.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hk9sm36855240wjb.46.2014.11.13.12.29.01 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:29:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D106B810-02BE-460D-A561-0D18AD1716BF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87FC04@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:28:58 -1000 Message-Id: References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B877A1F@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87891C@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B87FC04@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> To: Gregory Mirsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ka_Ny1ahth3znIfke8qoouZEMl8 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:29:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D106B810-02BE-460D-A561-0D18AD1716BF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Greg, On Nov 12, 2014, at 10:50 , Gregory Mirsky = wrote: > Hi Kireeti, > I think of dynamic changes to a ring as operator induced, controlled = defect. Good =E2=80=94 we=E2=80=99re on the same page. > I think that there should be requirement that flows to unaffected by = the change nodes, more when removing a node, be unaffected. Good point. I will add text to address this. > Whether that be result of explicitly putting links at adjacent = neighbors into Lock state thus triggering protection switchover or of = some other action, i.e. propagating OAM update that node K is down, we = can discuss. But I believe that such changes in the ring should work = without disrupting other services. It is possible that controlled = topology change and failure happen in what practically can be viewed = simultaneously so that protection actions to both overlap. In such case, = I think, we have what Huub characterize as ring double failure. Okay, that makes more sense now. Kireeti. > =20 > Regards, > Greg > =20 > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:06 PM > To: Gregory Mirsky > Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > =20 > Hi Greg, > =20 > On Nov 1, 2014, at 17:39 , Gregory Mirsky > wrote: > =20 > Hi Kireeti, > thank you for your kind consideration, much appreciated. > Of course, TTL will break the loop and setting it to precise value may = be one solution. But, as Huub pointed, if ring experienced double = failure loop still exist though less severe. And since nodes may be = added and removed from the ring dynamically every node must be aware of = number of nodes in that ring. > =20 > Do you think it is important to deal with dynamic changes during = protection? >=20 >=20 > Thus I personally prefer option #3, (Extended) Special Purpose Label = (that we can name later). The possible drawback, as with any new (E)SPL = cases, is that it becomes new capability that now must be advertised as = such. > =20 > I suggested the (E)SPL option, but current reality is that all LSRs = support TTL processing; it will take time for the SPL approach to be = implemented in forwarding engines. >=20 >=20 > But I agree, let=E2=80=99s list all three options as these are sound = technical solutions to the realistic scenario and any of TTL based may = be used by itself or in combination with (E)SPL.=20 > =20 > Good, I will do that. >=20 >=20 > (E)SPL may be used only if ring is homogeneous in regard to this = capability. > =20 > Actually, for node failure, SPL can be used when the nodes adjacent to = the egress support the SPL. But to address Huub=E2=80=99s point (double = failure), every node would have to support the SPL. > =20 > Cheers, > Kireeti. > =20 > =20 > Regards, > Greg > =20 > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com = ]=20 > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 6:37 PM > To: Gregory Mirsky > Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > =20 > Hi Greg, > =20 > On Oct 30, 2014, at 16:21 , Gregory Mirsky = > = wrote: > =20 > Hi Kireeti, > I think that proposed in this document protection method creates some = unpleasant scenario if failure is of a node, not a link. If I use the = scenario presented in Section 3.6 but assume that the failure is not of = the link between R_j and R_j+1 but of the node Rj+1. Thus, as R_j = switches to US direction, the R_j+2 will switch to DS. And until = notifications from R_j and R_j+2 reach R_j+2 and R_j respectively we = have routing loop on RL_j+1 LSP. > =20 > I appreciate your careful reading! Note of course that since there is = a TTL, this is a finite loop (not saying it isn=E2=80=99t bad, but that = this has the germ of the solution.) > =20 > I have three solutions for this problem. I didn=E2=80=99t put them in = the first version of the draft; I may eventually document all (and = others, as the WG chimes in), but meanwhile this discussion is perfect. > =20 > My preferred solution is to always insert packets on a ring LSP with = TTL =3D 2N-1 if the ring has N nodes. This is enough for the worst case = =E2=80=94 node R_j sends a packet on RL_j+1 the =E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D = way around, only to encounter a failure at node R_j+2, and come all the = way back to R_j, then R_j+1. > =20 > Another solution is that an ingress node sets the TTL as usual, but a = PLR sets the TTL to the smaller of the current TTL-1 and the minimum TTL = required to reach the egress. So, in the above example, R_j would set = TTL as usual, but R_j+2, on detecting a failure, would set TTL =3D N-1 = and send it the other way. In this case, when the packet gets back to = R_j, it should not in turn reset the TTL to N-1. Of course, both of the = above can be combined. > =20 > Finally, a PLR (R_j+2) can push a special purpose label to indicate = that this is a failure path, then push the label to go the other way. = If the packet goes back to R_j, before R_j sends it the other way, it = sees that the label below the top of stack is this failure label, and = drops the packet rather than cycle it back around the ring. > =20 > If my assumptions are correct, then notification mechanism MUST be = reliable or be backed up by IGP signaling. In any case, the loop may = persist for quite a while and affect all services. > =20 > Agreed, having a reliable notification mechanism is always a good = thing. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Comments, questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated. > =20 > Greg, since you worked out the problem, do you have any opinions on = the solutions above, or any of your own? > =20 > Cheers, > Kireeti. > =20 > Regards, > Greg > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Kireeti Kompella > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:41 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > =20 > Hi Folks, > =20 > This is a draft on making MPLS more efficient in ring networks. I = have come around to understanding that: > a) rings are a special topology (there was a time that I didn't = appreciate that); > b) MPLS is pretty inefficient in rings (that is/was quite obvious). > =20 > This draft attempts to fix that, both by making protection much more = efficient, and by making configuration much easier. > =20 > Your comments are highly welcome! > =20 > Cheers, > Kireeti. > =20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > > Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > To: Kireeti Kompella > >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Kireeti Kompella and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-kompella-mpls-rmr > Revision: 00 > Title: Resilient MPLS Rings > Document date: 2014-10-26 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 7 > URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr/ = > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 = >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the use of the MPLS control and data planes > on ring topologies. It describes the special nature of rings, and > proceeds to show how MPLS can be effectively used in such = topologies. > It describes how MPLS rings are configured, auto-discovered and > signaled, as well as how the data plane works. Companion documents > describe the details of discovery and signaling for specific > protocols. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org = . >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > --=20 > Kireeti=20 --Apple-Mail=_D106B810-02BE-460D-A561-0D18AD1716BF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    Hi Greg,

    On Nov 12, 2014, at 10:50 , Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:

    Hi Kireeti,
    I think of dynamic changes to a ring as = operator induced, controlled defect. =

    Good =E2=80= =94 we=E2=80=99re on the same page.

    I = think that there should be requirement that flows to unaffected by the = change nodes, more when removing a node, be unaffected. =

    Good = point.  I will add text to address this.

    Whether that be result of explicitly = putting links at adjacent neighbors into Lock state thus triggering = protection switchover or of some other action, i.e. propagating OAM = update that node K is down, we can discuss. But I believe that such = changes in the ring should work without disrupting other services. It is = possible that controlled topology change and failure happen in what = practically can be viewed simultaneously so that protection actions to = both overlap. In such case, I think, we have what Huub characterize as = ring double failure.

    Okay, that makes more sense now.

    Kireeti.

     
              &nb= sp;     Regards,
              &nb= sp;            = ;         Greg
     
    From: Kireeti = Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com] 
    Sent: Wednesday, November 12, = 2014 12:06 PM
    To: Gregory Mirsky
    Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version = Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
     
    Hi Greg,
     
    On Nov 1, 2014, at 17:39 , Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:
     
    Hi = Kireeti,
    thank you for your kind = consideration, much appreciated.
    Of = course, TTL will break the loop and setting it to precise value may be = one solution. But, as Huub pointed, if ring experienced double failure = loop still exist though less severe. And since nodes may be added and = removed from the ring dynamically every node must be aware of number of = nodes in that ring.
     
    Do you think it is important to deal with dynamic = changes during protection?


    Thus I personally prefer option #3, (Extended) Special = Purpose Label (that we can name later). The possible drawback, as with = any new (E)SPL cases, is that it becomes new capability that now must be = advertised as such.
     
    I suggested the (E)SPL option, but current reality is = that all LSRs support TTL processing; it will take time for the SPL = approach to be implemented in forwarding engines.


    But= I agree, let=E2=80=99s list all three options as these are sound = technical solutions to the realistic scenario and any of TTL based may = be used by itself or in combination with (E)SPL. 
     
    Good, I will do = that.


    (E)SPL may be used only if ring is = homogeneous in regard to this capability.
     
    Actually, for node failure, SPL can be = used when the nodes adjacent to the egress support the SPL.  But to = address Huub=E2=80=99s point (double failure), every node would have to = support the SPL.
     
    Cheers,
    Kireeti.
     
     
              &nb= sp;     Regards,
              &nb= sp;            = ;         Greg
     
    From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.kompella@gmail.com] 
    Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 = 6:37 PM
    To: Gregory Mirsky
    Cc: Kireeti Kompella; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version = Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
     
    Hi Greg,
     
    On Oct 30, 2014, at 16:21 , Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:
     
    Hi Kireeti,
    I think that proposed in this document = protection method creates some unpleasant scenario if failure is of a = node, not a link. If I use the scenario presented in Section 3.6 but = assume that the failure is not of the link between R_j and R_j+1 but of = the node Rj+1. Thus, as R_j switches to US direction, the R_j+2 will = switch to DS. And until notifications from R_j and R_j+2 reach R_j+2 and = R_j respectively we have routing loop on RL_j+1 LSP.
     
    I appreciate your careful reading!  Note of course that = since there is a TTL, this is a finite loop (not saying it isn=E2=80=99t = bad, but that this has the germ of the solution.)
     
    I have three solutions for this problem. = I didn=E2=80=99t put them in the first version of the draft; I may = eventually document all (and others, as the WG chimes in), but meanwhile = this discussion is perfect.
     
    My preferred solution is to always insert packets on a ring = LSP with TTL =3D 2N-1 if the ring has N nodes.  This is enough for = the worst case =E2=80=94 node R_j sends a packet on RL_j+1 the = =E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D way around, only to encounter a failure at node = R_j+2, and come all the way back to R_j, then R_j+1.
     
    Another solution is that an ingress node = sets the TTL as usual, but a PLR sets the TTL to the smaller of the = current TTL-1 and the minimum TTL required to reach the egress.   =  So, in the above example, R_j would set TTL as usual, but R_j+2, = on detecting a failure, would set TTL =3D N-1 and send it the other way. =  In this case, when the packet gets back to R_j, it should not in = turn reset the TTL to N-1.  Of course, both of the above can be = combined.
     
    Finally, a PLR (R_j+2) can push a special purpose label to = indicate that this is a failure path, then push the label to go the = other way.  If the packet goes back to R_j, before R_j sends it the = other way, it sees that the label below the top of stack is this failure = label, and drops the packet rather than cycle it back around the = ring.
     
    If my assumptions are = correct, then notification mechanism MUST be reliable or be backed up by = IGP signaling. In any case, the loop may persist for quite a while and = affect all services.
     
    Agreed, having a reliable notification mechanism is always a = good thing.



    Comments, questions are = always welcome and greatly appreciated.
     
    Greg, since you worked out the problem, = do you have any opinions on the solutions above, or any of your own?
     
    Cheers,
    Kireeti.
     
         =            Regards,
              &nb= sp;            = ;         Greg
     
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Kireeti = Kompella
    Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 = 10:41 AM
    To: mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: [mpls] Fwd: New Version = Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
     
    Hi Folks,
     
    This is a draft on making MPLS more efficient in ring = networks.  I have come around to understanding that:
    a) rings are a special topology (there was a time that I = didn't appreciate that);
    b) MPLS is pretty = inefficient in rings (that is/was quite obvious).
     
    This draft attempts to fix that, both by = making protection much more efficient, and by making configuration much = easier.
     
    Your comments are highly welcome!
     
    Cheers,
    Kireeti.
     

    ---------- = Forwarded message ----------
    From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
    Date: Sun, Oct = 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM
    Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
    To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti.kompella@gmail.com>



    A new version of I-D, = draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt
    has been successfully = submitted by Kireeti Kompella and posted to the
    IETF = repository.

    Name:      =      draft-kompella-mpls-rmr
    Revision:  =      00
    Title:        =   Resilient MPLS Rings
    Document date:  = 2014-10-26
    Group:          = Individual Submission
    Pages:        =   7
    URL:          =   http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.= txt
    Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr/Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00


    Abstract:
      =  This document describes the use of the MPLS control and data = planes
       on ring topologies.  It describes = the special nature of rings, and
       proceeds to = show how MPLS can be effectively used in such topologies.
       It describes how MPLS rings are configured, = auto-discovered and
       signaled, as well as how = the data plane works.  Companion documents
      =  describe the details of discovery and signaling for specific
       protocols.





    Please note that = it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
    until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

    The IETF Secretariat



     
    -- 
    Kireeti 

    = --Apple-Mail=_D106B810-02BE-460D-A561-0D18AD1716BF-- From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:37:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293731AD0B7 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ztzTjlNSO0OY for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8737F1AD05F for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id a1so17716871wgh.20 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=auJNaPSN3YTYm+PBjb5vCWv+OU2iV6aKMqc8hq9qpQI=; b=x+vYrro+i2jaZAc4C3V/mCRvFuFCuCn/7NN1/UtzaM//1dNZ3jKikx6D4E0G1tIo8F guBhu6z25QjOKTVxOv5oL1od+HMvLvdJc4ec4pxz0qnTQ1vXXR/H9xt/rGbd3KnRBPYJ CRBESciGd40MNa0N6C6qHonHjkWOs4DPr66BmCU1wMEo+AyAdn2cfp7uS3oPtmPFg0M2 OSKzUt7qpWJNAhBdR6rHFSTaWZ+xwbp2uc7JRq4h/s6JPOK7tQ0+ooIl37+kXfxTyQsM kiwX40E/EmLqwDxVv9qeZCEisbH0FuSEtvHY9R3+kbZUubzDErPHM6Jte8v5auGWmlLe jsng== X-Received: by 10.180.77.79 with SMTP id q15mr1613034wiw.8.1415911039298; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-a540.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-a540.meeting.ietf.org. [31.133.165.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w10sm36910708wje.10.2014.11.13.12.37.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:18 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_18E855AB-0FC2-4BD4-8BE5-432D27A1D228" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:37:14 -1000 Message-Id: <18A99B7B-97A3-4037-AC84-9B46C191941B@gmail.com> References: <017fdc7b802a41caad7953a5bd73da6d@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> To: "LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/crCbprMkahT9jn6BJ4QNveSi5UY Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:37:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_18E855AB-0FC2-4BD4-8BE5-432D27A1D228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 13, 2014, at 09:04 , LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN) = wrote: > why is a control plane aspect dictating how the data plane will be = connection oriented or not? RSVP-TE usually builds point-to-point tunnels; LDP builds multipoint = tunnels. In RMR, I suggest using multipoint tunnels with both LDP and RSVP-TE. KIreeti. --Apple-Mail=_18E855AB-0FC2-4BD4-8BE5-432D27A1D228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 13, 2014, at 09:04 , LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN) <lieven.levrau@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

     why is a control plane aspect dictating how the data = plane will be connection oriented or not?

    RSVP-TE usually builds point-to-point tunnels; LDP = builds multipoint tunnels.

    In = RMR, I suggest using multipoint tunnels with both LDP and = RSVP-TE.

    KIreeti.

    = --Apple-Mail=_18E855AB-0FC2-4BD4-8BE5-432D27A1D228-- From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:37:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5761AD370 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J6RYnP7j3v67 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3E2B1AD36D for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOT44649; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:37:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.36) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:37:30 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.18]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:37:27 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Shahram Davari , Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgAeymIAAAAyXgAAET3M0A== Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:37:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD28C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> 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41FE81AD37B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:38:41 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,379,1413270000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="50857257" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw1-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2014 14:13:30 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.14) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:38:40 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:38:46 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: Xuxiaohu , Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgBAUXQAABCZU+D//4DhAIAAhdIw Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:41 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A7DA@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: 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Xuxiaohu , Shahram Davari , Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgAeymIAAAAyXgAAET3M0AAAHbSQ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:39:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD2AD@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <7D8D4D1D-554C-472B-9596-380C19F98738@gmail.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A69B@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.155.145] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD2ADNKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/8ELNA3beBaIyYtnY0OtBuyyZbuc Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgZHJhZnQta29tcGVsbGEtbXBscy1ybXItMDA=?= X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org 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[2001:67c:370:160:6c37:889e:6dad:9773]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d14sm36909163wjz.26.2014.11.13.12.40.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:40:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <546504EB.2030509@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:40:34 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <017fdc7b802a41caad7953a5bd73da6d@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> <546504EB.2030509@pi.nu> To: Loa Andersson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/a2icGe48j2_9yWrGtLRrf3ZF1C0 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:45 -0000 On Nov 13, 2014, at 09:22 , Loa Andersson wrote: > What we said before is that we might do solutions for specific > topologies if it comes with enough advantages, for shared ring Not sure what a shared ring is ... > I believe this is adequately demonstrated and the rmr has a bit to > go. Certainly. Please look for updates. Kireeti. From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:45:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568131AD3B4 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:45:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D5E_N1d951Dj for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91CD11AD3C3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.167.213] (dhcp-a7d5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.167.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C085D180006E; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54651847.30503@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:55 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kireeti Kompella References: <017fdc7b802a41caad7953a5bd73da6d@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> <546504EB.2030509@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/SiiKCBZOr1BXalR_xCzbEyK2Us4 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:17 -0000 Kireeti, section 2.5.1.1 and 2.5.1.2 of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared- ring-protection-03 have simple pictures. /Loa On 2014-11-13 21:40, Kireeti Kompella wrote: > On Nov 13, 2014, at 09:22 , Loa Andersson wrote: > >> What we said before is that we might do solutions for specific >> topologies if it comes with enough advantages, for shared ring > > Not sure what a shared ring is ... > >> I believe this is adequately demonstrated and the rmr has a bit to >> go. > > Certainly. Please look for updates. > > Kireeti. > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:54:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45831AD47E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:54:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5NCCN0AMNGOt for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8895F1AD463 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:53:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOT45416; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:53:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:53:27 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.18]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:53:23 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Shahram Davari , Kireeti Kompella Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgAeymIAAAAyXgAAET3M0P//eoSA//92GqA= Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD30B@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <7D8D4D1D-554C-472B-9596-380C19F98738@gmail.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A69B@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD28C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A7DA@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A7DA@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.155.145] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD30BNKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PAs-whoWEy9_M6nvdNCuzxImwtA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E591AD4A1 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:03:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.343 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.343 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25r-zY6o-Avi for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw1-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw1-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ADE21AD51C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:03:47 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,380,1413270000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="50859229" Received: from 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<4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A69B@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD28C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7A7DA@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD30B@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD30B@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0CAEAD1076AB4544AA547D171E23A932broadcomcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/dVfUfpEFy3FAa1Ji-jEhaOzGuGU Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:03:50 -0000 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    And what would be the advantage ?

    Regards,
    Shahram


    On Nov 13, 2014, at 10:53 AM, "Xuxiaohu" <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

    In the cur= rent rmr draft, yes. However, I wonder whether there is any possibility tha= t we could still use the per-platform label space.

     = ;

    Best regar= ds,

    Xiaohu

     = ;

     

    Labels are= already per-interface.

     = ;

    Thx
    SD

     = ;

    From: Xuxiaohu [mail= to:xuxiaohu@huawei.com]
    Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:37 PM
    To: Shahram Davari; Kireeti Kompella
    Cc: mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00

     

    As I had m= entioned to kireeti in private, the top label indicating clock-wise or coun= t-clock-wise forwarding could actually be inferred according to the interface via which the packet is arrived.

     = ;

    Best regar= ds,

    Xiaohu

     = ;

     

    Kirteeti,<= o:p>

     = ;

    A typical = ring has 8-16 nodes. So there is no point increasing depth of label stack a= nd modifying forwarding behavior to save 16 labels.

     = ;

    Thx
    SD

     = ;

    From: mpls [mailto= :mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kireeti Kompella
    Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:17 PM
    To: Xuxiaohu
    Cc: mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00

     

    Hi Xiaohu,

     

    On Nov 12, 2014, at 11:33 , Xux= iaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>= ; wrote:

     

    Hi Kireeti,

     

    I have read your draft and found it=A1=AFs very= interesting.

     

    Thank you!

    =  

    I wonder whether it=A1=AFs possible to in= troduce the idea of the RPR (Resilient Packet Ring) technology into the MPLS-enabled ring networks. For instance, for a given node on a ring, = it has two types of interfaces, one is ring-interface and the other is non-= ring-interface. In addition, the ring-interface is either eastward or westw= ard. When receiving an MPLS packet from a non-ring interface, if the next-hop of that MPLS packet is one of i= ts adjacent peers on the ring, it would impose a label indicating clock-wis= e forwarding or count-clock-wise forwarding accordingly. When receiving an = MPLS packet with the top label being the label indicating clock-wise or counter-clock-wise forwarding, unless t= he next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the label below that top label= is itself or a peer which is connected via a non-ring interface (i.e., the= packet would pop off the ring), that packet should be forwarding according to the top label, e.g., if the = top label indicates clock-wise forwarding, it would be forwarded in the clo= ck-wise direction. <= /o:p>

     

    The label indicating clock-wise or count-= clock-wise forwarding could be an SPL or a local label which is advertised by each ring node. If that label is a local label, it should= be swapped accordingly on each hop of the ring. When the packet received f= rom a adjacent peer on the ring should pop off that ring, the top label ind= icating clock-wise or count-clock-wise forwarding should be stripped before performing the further MPLS forwardin= g process.

     

    Good comment.  Let me see = if I understand.  Let=A1=AFs say that the ring has N nodes.  The = way I would do this, each node has 2*(N-1) labels to reach each of the othe= r (N-1) nodes in the two directions (CW or CCW).

     

    What you are suggesting is to h= ave a two-label stack; the outer label says CW or CCW; the inner label says= what the egress ring node is.  So, each node has (N-1) inner labels.<= o:p>

     

    So, you are optimizing 2*(N-1) = to (N-1) by using hierarchy.  Is N large enough to make this worthwhil= e?

     

    Note that "unless the next-hop of the FEC which is indicated by the label below that top label is itself=A1=B1 is a non-trivial forwarding step= .  I.e., each node needs to look at two labels to determine how to forward the packet.

     

    However, to reach non-ring nodes, I fully suppor= t using hierarchy.

     

    Cheers,

    Kireeti.

     

    Best regards,

    Xiaohu

     

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(25.161.55.144) by DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.161.55.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:14:45 +0000 Received: from DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.161.55.144]) by DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.161.55.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:14:44 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: Shahram Davari , Xuxiaohu Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: AQHP/4bYNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41Fg== Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:14:44 +0000 Message-ID: <651744a31846434daa881e7fa5af085b@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Infraware POLARIS Mobile Mailer v2.5 x-originating-ip: [109.253.141.2] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB3PR03MB0812; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB3PR03MB0812; x-forefront-prvs: 0394259C80 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(199003)(377454003)(479174003)(24454002)(189002)(46102003)(93916002)(21056001)(87286001)(122556002)(74316001)(62966003)(33646002)(87936001)(19580395003)(92566001)(19580405001)(76576001)(40100003)(86362001)(101416001)(50986999)(88136002)(89996001)(108616004)(19625215002)(20776003)(97736003)(120916001)(31966008)(106356001)(230783001)(105586002)(106116001)(2656002)(77156002)(107046002)(64706001)(95666004)(77096003)(4396001)(50226001)(104166001)(66066001)(16236675004)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB3PR03MB0812; H:DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_651744a31846434daa881e7fa5af085bDB3PR03MB0812eurprd03pr_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ecitele.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/sEhKdHwGhhEQQJY8UE32Dpvw5KI Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 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[31.133.165.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fa7sm37019669wjd.27.2014.11.13.13.18.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:18:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:18:16 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <252F8958-21A3-4B4B-98EE-B6F8314C22A6@gmail.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> To: huubatwork@gmail.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/hjkr8w_3nMQ4Wh5UFT2luviAnDQ Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:20:00 -0000 Hi Huub, On Nov 13, 2014, at 05:56 , Huub van Helvoort = wrote: > Hello Kireeti, >=20 > See my response in-line [hh] >>> I also did a careful reading of this draft. >>>=20 >>> I agree with Greg that the failure of a node is not covered. >>=20 >> My aim is to treat link and node failures the same way. > > I don=E2=80=99t see much difference in how one would respond, > > but I=E2=80=99m happy to listen to other opinions. >=20 > [hh] If I understand the draft well enough: node J detects > failure of the link JK between node J and K (whether that is > due to link JK failure or node K failure does not matter). I=E2=80=99m assuming that J->K is US. > Node J switches traffic from US to DS and sens a message DS to > node K (unaware of the possibility that node K has failed). Two points here: a) Node J sends a message to its DS neighbor, not to node K. This means = that traffic switches from US to DS one hop closer to the ingress. One = might want to send the notification to the ingress, but since ring LSPs = are multipoint, you really don=E2=80=99t know who the ingress is. b) for all ring LSPs except the one with node K as egress, the = protection action of switching traffic from US to DS works, independent = of whether the link JK or the node K failed. In the case of the ring = LSP to node K, nothing can really be done, unless the real destination = is dual-homed (separate topic). > Node L receives the message, but cannot forward it to the > failed node K. Not sure why you want to send the notification to node K. KIreeti. > What happens in this case? >=20 >>> I also notice that you did not cover that a second failure >>> (link/node) that splits the ring in two islands. >>> In this case the protection in effect in each of the islands >>> should be maintained. You may have the same issue as detected >>> by Greg for a single node failure. >>=20 >> Understood. >=20 > [hh] OK. >=20 >>> I also notice that during the process of changing DS to US >>> at each node MPLS packets may get lost or get out of order. >>> Is my interpretation correct? >>=20 >> That is correct. I think that is the case for all protection > > schemes; certainly for MPLS protection schemes. >=20 > [hh] what is described in your draft I would call "steering" > at the ingress node. > draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection used "wrapping" > Wrapping has the advantage that packets are lost only during > the defect detection time. > Steering has additional time, the switch times at every node > between the node detecting the failure until the DS message > reaches the ingress node. >=20 > Cheers, Huub. >=20 > --=20 > ***************************************************************** > = =E8=AF=B7=E8=AE=B0=E4=BD=8F=EF=BC=8C=E4=BD=A0=E6=98=AF=E7=8B=AC=E4=B8=80=E6= =97=A0=E4=BA=8C=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=B0=B1=E5=83=8F=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E6=AF= =8F=E4=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E4=B8=80=E6=A0=B7 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Thu Nov 13 13:27:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763021AD656 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:26:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EhdnGwQEAyIi for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95ED71AD63D for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:24:51 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,380,1413270000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="50502903" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2014 13:31:17 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS04.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.10) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:24:51 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS04.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:24:52 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: Alexander Vainshtein , Xuxiaohu Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: AQHP/4bYNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FpxfETqQ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:24:52 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D7AB76@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <651744a31846434daa881e7fa5af085b@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <651744a31846434daa881e7fa5af085b@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US 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[2001:67c:370:160:7d08:9c0b:34fc:4651]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nd20sm1061047wic.11.2014.11.13.14.43.40 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:43:41 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:42:57 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <185DB624-D70B-499D-A984-968DA7BD2358@gmail.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> To: huubatwork@gmail.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/MeHErk7EtXhpGCPJy0hQgFWvq5U Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:43:45 -0000 Hi Huub, On Nov 13, 2014, at 05:56 , Huub van Helvoort = wrote: > [hh] what is described in your draft I would call "steering" > at the ingress node. > draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection used "wrapping" > Wrapping has the advantage that packets are lost only during > the defect detection time. > Steering has additional time, the switch times at every node > between the node detecting the failure until the DS message > reaches the ingress node. Not sure what you mean. The goal in what I=E2=80=99m doing (call it = what you will) is to minimize packet loss to detection time. The node = detecting the failure switches traffic as soon as it realizes that the = next {link, node} has failed. The fact that other nodes can short-circuit the protection path is an = optimization. Kireeti. From nobody Thu Nov 13 14:48:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A30021AE131 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:48:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ysnDGJTvkdpa for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7DC41AE12A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ex7so1037986wid.15 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:48:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7yxWsJU/CVtqIEFWsvM1q8Dk2/liIWXcneRfAy6AT9k=; b=SOlaqW2nzWyK7Q8cT7JT/AIyxayaKNv4SSRsTnrbES8fCge8oy4Jm2AGBpihCnrWDV 0al0FMy+Hh5yllvYvAyw/S291oCdmK9/2nVunQknOR901+3OuEy0hMHNNELa0+A+0YSg PuhhRpi7f1NKjxmuLSdY6zSpZJUJ/LzBkYvCU2NdIBtDxx09o/m4vIsPeiiwUvjSEyif JuDu1mIwuym7K8j38OKTXoKsFRmxkD1dTHvx8DJGQwHZStkThYXY4O0mpNuLq6cunPnL N1RUoo++6Q8WawvwUFb3GyhLj7X9UjDsHu4xG4AuyTR39/yjDTV+XV4LC2PD3CYjjtub Xp+g== X-Received: by 10.180.19.164 with SMTP id g4mr2090870wie.51.1415918899480; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fi10sm1078838wic.12.2014.11.13.14.48.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:48:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54653532.9020402@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:48:18 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <30c2718c20834eb0b5986bf30b341212@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <30c2718c20834eb0b5986bf30b341212@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/NBh9UvyRw81y24gXpffcz_V4DCg Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:48:22 -0000 Hello Sasha, You wrote: > A typical ring has 8-16 nodes? Indeed, smaller number in the access, larger number in the core of the network. > Indeed, SONET/ SDH rings with BLSR/MS-SPRing are limited to 16 nodes > because there are just 4 bits to encode the Node ID in K1/K2 overhead bytes. There are "just" four bits after careful consideration. The network objective is to switch within 50 ms. In the 16 node ring the propagation delay around the ring has to be taken into account and the processing time of the K1/K2 bytes. > An MPLS ring could have more if needed. Of course. However this number will be determined by the propagation delay and the processing time per node. > My guess is that the limit on the number of nodes in a ring is limited > only by the probability of a double link/node failure. If failures are > rare and repair is fast, you could have more nodes in a ring, if the > failures are frequent and repair is slow, ring topologies become > problematic even if the number of nodes is small. > > On the other hand, "up to 16 nodes in a ring" has probably become yet > one more magic number/an article of faith as, say, "sub-50 milliseconds > protection switch": Most people do not even ask whence it has come from, > what exactly it means and why (if at all) it is still relevant... See above. Note that the extraction, insertion and validation of the K1/K2 bytes requires 0.6 ms per node. Regards, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Thu Nov 13 14:59:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B93C1AE169 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:59:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YD1ZezPU4UQr for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x235.google.com (mail-wg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAABF1AE168 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id b13so17950461wgh.12 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:59:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tP7RizhQW7ObIOlloJSKuGlfPuGNGM0TUcOSPNgIE/0=; b=kTsu7m7HNjkgo+OcTb2OfwsB5r8ZqeehegEq8U7VehkqzKGMNc+iddA/AT1NTgXw/i 7Ykq2jlDek+KX1LEiqtKK6LQmYpnId+TlQML6zAyb1Qy8UxfyQibRSoOQiMNvXSvJ0a6 FbXMynETS8CvEbdwx9m9anlvcD4dLBKB9akIXv9Wgy9vxq29vi47SZFpxFglNrUuoBEy vvqQjL70V3c+hQeFEK1CkDsMIXn8dNkbgN4NtbVoL7n+XkFHgxomYed+UR7bAE6xAyur idVwCTxb6QmNcNBCvNkYE3fAXHSGGdDigmo5p6duDmttDiQYzXF+VS+LFi7afG01JLr4 iXJA== X-Received: by 10.180.109.17 with SMTP id ho17mr2413739wib.4.1415919584628; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ex2sm1082608wib.19.2014.11.13.14.59.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:59:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <546537DF.6090903@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:59:43 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> <252F8958-21A3-4B4B-98EE-B6F8314C22A6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <252F8958-21A3-4B4B-98EE-B6F8314C22A6@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/t1W1e7nXwMBMe1O2OKAdtM2eQp8 Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:59:48 -0000 Hello Kireeti, You replied: See my response in-line [hh2] >>>> I also did a careful reading of this draft. >>>> >>>> I agree with Greg that the failure of a node is not covered. >>> >>> My aim is to treat link and node failures the same way. >>> I don’t see much difference in how one would respond, >>> but I’m happy to listen to other opinions. >> >> [hh] If I understand the draft well enough: node J detects >> failure of the link JK between node J and K (whether that is >> due to link JK failure or node K failure does not matter). > > I’m assuming that J->K is US. [hh2] yes, that is correct. >> Node J switches traffic from US to DS and sens a message DS to >> node K (unaware of the possibility that node K has failed). > > Two points here: > > a) Node J sends a message to its DS neighbor, not to node K. > This means that traffic switches from US to DS one hop > closer to the ingress. > One might want to send the notification to the ingress, > but since ring LSPs are multipoint, you really don’t know > who the ingress is. [hh2] OK, that was not clear to me when I read the draft. [hh2] Can I conclude that the sending of messages to DS neighbors stops as soon as the ingress node is reached? > b) for all ring LSPs except the one with node K as egress, > the protection action of switching traffic from US to DS > works, independent of whether the link JK or the node > K failed. [hh2] if my conclusion above is correct, then I agree. > In the case of the ring LSP to node K, nothing can > really be done, unless the real destination is > dual-homed (separate topic). [hh2] OK, I would refer to that as drop-and-continue because there can be more than two nodes involved. >> Node L receives the message, but cannot forward it to the >> failed node K. > > Not sure why you want to send the notification to node K. [hh2] if my conclusion above is correct, then forget this comment. Cheers, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Thu Nov 13 15:05:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47AC11AE1D9 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:05:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SZDdY2z837PN for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x22c.google.com (mail-wg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 700B41AE1DA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id x12so17972652wgg.17 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:05:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=m8NT4/VNIL+1Oyber3l5Oo92qgyVnPjNOSxNJOetsVw=; b=bchNwnYlB1AMd9/cbtY5VBNynshcjGNfULV780gyo6P6r5aM6o5cTUQ0AZNCygMmxn GwBJRuk2bvPKASc8e/FyLjfbtn5SSCBSiT9oQdD4CtCrrBoUwlGV8tHDzvpYvihWT7LK rzUY3WQNIeONExjLtbBV2gaZbZqKIW9dAsjDL9je/w2waFzsvtIuyP/E/6A/Ulj9i0ss IFnwSiBDrJ1hAL0Jh5iZHmUAAiQ1l5kqGHXSAZo+nzvg4yIZDxW3HkkkU963Oad0LMXe m4xkQb0lLRaZNTMhfjfhICLxZBuzJvoXrR40AwcdLw1F6sLB1x7JY/JExhxxNe7hd5ik hzfg== X-Received: by 10.180.101.102 with SMTP id ff6mr2530374wib.0.1415919923280; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:05:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s2sm1145786wia.3.2014.11.13.15.05.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:05:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54653932.8060006@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:05:22 +0100 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> <185DB624-D70B-499D-A984-968DA7BD2358@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <185DB624-D70B-499D-A984-968DA7BD2358@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/SyOaOdC6FuNEF4P9lUFkMFP3uGY Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:05:26 -0000 Hello Kireeti, You reply: >> [hh] what is described in your draft I would call "steering" >> at the ingress node. >> draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection used "wrapping" >> Wrapping has the advantage that packets are lost only during >> the defect detection time. >> Steering has additional time, the switch times at every node >> between the node detecting the failure until the DS message >> reaches the ingress node. > > Not sure what you mean. The goal in what I’m doing (call it > what you will) is to minimize packet loss to detection time. [hh] OK, I see. > The node detecting the failure switches traffic as soon as > it realizes that the next {link, node} has failed. > > The fact that other nodes can short-circuit the protection > path is an optimization. [hh] this was not clear to me after reading the draft. So you are initially also using wrapping. This is similar to draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection Cheers, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Thu Nov 13 16:12:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0559A1A00D0; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:12:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ibelbuLtBRB; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A521A0087; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:11:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141114001156.24319.56324.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:11:56 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/-j5c5Z_XszEFkPYVnwnwvQH5_OM Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:12:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : mLDP Node Protection Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric Rosen Kamran Raza Jeff Tantsura Alia Atlas Quintin Zhao Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection-02.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2014-11-13 Abstract: This document describes procedures to support node protection for Point-to-Multipoint and Multipoint-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths (MP LSPs) built by LDP ("Label Distribution Protocol"), or simply mLDP. In order to protect a node N, the Point of Local Repair (PLR) LSR of N must learn the Merge Point (MPT) LSR(s) of node N such that traffic can be redirected to them in case node N fails. Redirecting the traffic around the failed node N depends on existing P2P LSPs originated from the PLR LSR to the MPT LSRs while bypassing LSR node N. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 13 16:37:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB93F1A0210 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:37:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q-BJ823EvZDf for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 931291A0072 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:37:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOT56141; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:34:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:34:55 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.18]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:34:49 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Shahram Davari , Alexander Vainshtein Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: AQHP/4bYNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FpxfETqQgAA1o5A= Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD4FC@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: 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(10.98.56.39) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:03:34 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.22]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:03:28 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHP/rMNC+EssF95AEO/0VLBMRC+B5xeMUOAgABxkYCAAAZDAIAA2Erw Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:03:27 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C92733767864@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> <185DB624-D70B-499D-A984-968DA7BD2358@gmail.com> <54653932.8060006@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54653932.8060006@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.96.76] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/5OgVzXNF0nBXazBk8B_DQ0H_G8A Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:03:41 -0000 SGkgSHV1YiwgS2lyZWV0aSwNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9t OiBtcGxzIFttYWlsdG86bXBscy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgSHV1YiB2 YW4gSGVsdm9vcnQNCj4gU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAxNCwgMjAxNCA3OjA1IEFNDQo+ IFRvOiBtcGxzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbbXBsc10gTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90 aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC1rb21wZWxsYS1tcGxzLXJtci0wMC50eHQNCj4gDQo+IEhlbGxv 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X18NCj4gbXBscyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gbXBsc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL21wbHMNCg== From nobody Fri Nov 14 01:40:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9B11A878C for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:40:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e-WG5Aw7PhC6 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BE701A8788 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOT97751; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:40:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:40:32 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.18]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 17:40:30 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Osborne, Eric" , "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 Thread-Index: Ac/+wJTiNhLCDCTzRbWTojN86D41FgAV49mAAAFCUAAAMN9MkA== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:40:29 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CD719@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082CCD68@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5464D609.1030700@gmail.com> <63CB93BC589C1B4BAFDB41A0A19B7ACDFE12BD@USIDCWVEMBX08.corp.global.level3.com> In-Reply-To: <63CB93BC589C1B4BAFDB41A0A19B7ACDFE12BD@USIDCWVEMBX08.corp.global.level3.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.139.129] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fE8RM-_d13Z_6G-2IN87Ke4tFGM Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:40:57 -0000 Q291bGQgbm90IGFncmVlIG1vcmUuDQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNClhpYW9odQ0KDQotLS0tLemC 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From nobody Fri Nov 14 06:10:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18F11A0126; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:10:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DJn7yRF7TbAN; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:09:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E63F1A0143; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:09:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141114140945.13586.2308.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:09:45 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/G-p9fTipca-LevEbY-8mqnVJmtk Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-05.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:10:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : Relayed Echo Reply mechanism for LSP Ping Authors : Jian Luo Lizhong Jin Thomas Nadeau George Swallow Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-05.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2014-11-14 Abstract: In some inter autonomous system (AS) and inter-area deployment scenarios for RFC 4379 "Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute", a replying LSR may not have the available route to the initiator, and the Echo Reply message sent to the initiator would be discarded resulting in false negatives or complete failure of operation of LSP Ping and Traceroute. This document describes extensions to LSP Ping mechanism to enable the replying Label Switching Router (LSR) to have the capability to relay the Echo Response by a set of routable intermediate nodes to the initiator. This document updates RFC 4379. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 14 11:30:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260D61A8AF9 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:30:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9G_6UlB7VDgV for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x230.google.com (mail-wg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7D0F1A8AF4 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id a1so2066743wgh.35 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:30:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=29LxCfmURad3GIPohsYRDjPFpNSYi8fUCp60D86yviI=; b=0Vz0Cp3xIT4qgsMsyE5rrVMbyeObfGtwtQWZDuoDqpmpbZ1iDAGblEQNq2fb9uJ2R+ 77geZbhgMnidv9aokE5G5tK9L2UB7tREvTQjBq5NzHW/wHmsyyxDRlBmkeyqQDsbukJT JeA3o3Sr3fPsPPQk3W/iis93bnZPqE7tMye0HlLL/wVnlMUrlqivhuiReeNOLSKNbIhT Jo8avDZ79jQRTAEUMmARgcJR5evKkaD6Q7wN4E3i6Us3HZMyEVay/+hRLcaWKfBdSud+ rqpscvk7zrMZq/Rw2bV7+P+fgUZq+ys2iGc6pgkz+7Ag9Smh/bKG0bMjIkso8CUnSkXv mTmg== X-Received: by 10.181.8.72 with SMTP id di8mr1782765wid.1.1415993411399; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c03700160e0d7527ae4c0c7a3.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c03700160e0d7527ae4c0c7a3.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org. [2001:67c:370:160:e0d7:527a:e4c0:c7a3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wl1sm40773815wjb.4.2014.11.14.11.30.08 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:30:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <546537DF.6090903@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:30:07 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2BB21EF3-D846-4D47-A322-FF7BA116134B@gmail.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> <252F8958-21A3-4B4B-98EE-B6F8314C22A6@gmail.com> <546537DF.6090903@gmail.com> To: huubatwork@gmail.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/WayB5sV-923FjMcGt9ljc6aJ6tc Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:30:14 -0000 Hi Huub, On Nov 13, 2014, at 12:59 , Huub van Helvoort = wrote: > [hh2] OK, that was not clear to me when I read the draft. Clearly, a number of clarifications and details are needed. Watch this = space for updates :) > [hh2] Can I conclude that the sending of messages to DS > neighbors stops as soon as the ingress node is reached? Yes and no. Yes for the traffic from that node. However, since the = ring LSP is multipoint, the nodes further DS can also initiate traffic. = So, effectively, the notifications have to go all the way to the ring = LSP=E2=80=99s anchor node. >> In the case of the ring LSP to node K, nothing can > > really be done, unless the real destination is > > dual-homed (separate topic). >=20 > [hh2] OK, I would refer to that as drop-and-continue > because there can be more than two nodes involved. Indeed. >>> Node L receives the message, but cannot forward it to the >>> failed node K. >>=20 >> Not sure why you want to send the notification to node K. >=20 > [hh2] if my conclusion above is correct, then forget > this comment. No, you are correct in that (as I said above) every node till the ring = LSP anchor needs to know, including node K. However, one can=E2=80=99t = just send a notification to node K =E2=80=94 all nodes DS of the fault = need to know this. Cheers, Kireeti. From nobody Fri Nov 14 11:32:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E20D1A8ABA for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:32:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HlkfWITZCuQM for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B15FC1A8BC3 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id n3so3722567wiv.8 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:31:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Hw5P8VoiOdfMqXja+H7Bkldh/JNcSQ9zYA+/6XmWtLQ=; b=tCaO+MwEuzhytV/3AhOu9tyZyuKSQSij8QbIP/9ha1Qh2Dq73Y22BqRdgZpLTDLbjs soeTR4Oml5le6t++GQemLRGW8VVoKy6dBvyXDqWnJkj3Bp/YVQ2VMYm1z8gyWOiAZ7X4 Br5zu4aqDmXt1EkEmyz9q/pGxJ5L6BzRA0RYDk5eSuGLXnQU0zhvNIb8jnqhht/8ggKy xL9NgkvGjdtaQz+h1ddboKa+NgvdbbafiT3n+0XtVtVkB8kwQVNcMWrwftzX3lzCrlLN dyRcAdhnUoGCrDdD6hsNguAXwy1xu9+mVY8RjrpsQJALDp570j8WDL803yyNBgM/gTZd +PFQ== X-Received: by 10.180.102.135 with SMTP id fo7mr10411933wib.79.1415993515554; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-a540.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-a540.meeting.ietf.org. [31.133.165.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fx2sm40753504wjb.37.2014.11.14.11.31.53 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:31:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: Kireeti Kompella In-Reply-To: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C92733767864@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:31:53 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B3E2B6D-263E-4912-B37E-6562B65F78D0@gmail.com> References: <20141027041512.4465.43044.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545503D5.4030800@gmail.com> <25745926-3FA0-4B62-8D36-F67E7FCFE897@gmail.com> <5464D4AD.405@gmail.com> <185DB624-D70B-499D-A984-968DA7BD2358@gmail.com> <54653932.8060006@gmail.com> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C92733767864@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/T6AJFpUHBQxVFo7HhQGc1DJCd70 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:32:16 -0000 Hi Dongjie, Huub: On Nov 13, 2014, at 19:03 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > I guess the specified protection is to use wrapping in the beginning = to minimize packet loss, when other nodes know the failure, they can = switch to shorter paths (i.e. steering) for optimization.=20 Yes, that would be a good characterization. Cheers, Kireeti. From nobody Fri Nov 14 15:47:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994071A88B6; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:47:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 106K16da31ct; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071601ACE62; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:47:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 37685181D1C; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:46:28 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 6000:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20141114234628.37685181D1C@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:46:28 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/wDSqz9UNH3e1DGwMUqSfIOK02p8 Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, mpls@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [mpls] RFC 7394 on Definition of Time to Live TLV for LSP-Ping Mechanisms X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:47:17 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 7394 Title: Definition of Time to Live TLV for LSP-Ping Mechanisms Author: S. Boutros, S. Sivabalan, G. Swallow, S. Saxena, V. Manral, S. Aldrin Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: November 2014 Mailbox: sboutros@cisco.com, msiva@cisco.com, swallow@cisco.com, ssaxena@cisco.com, vishwas@ionosnetworks.com, aldrin.ietf@gmail.com Pages: 8 Characters: 15120 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv-10.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7394.txt LSP-Ping is a widely deployed Operation, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) mechanism in MPLS networks. However, in the present form, this mechanism is inadequate to verify connectivity of a segment of a Multi-Segment Pseudowire (MS-PW) and/or bidirectional co-routed Label Switched Path (LSP) from any node on the path of the MS-PW and/or bidirectional co-routed LSP. This document defines a TLV to address this shortcoming. This document is a product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. 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The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Mon Nov 17 06:07:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F76F1A1B2E for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:07:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KT9qZp91XgO2 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0722.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::722]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BA721A1B51 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.161.55.144) by DB3PR03MB0953.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.161.58.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:06:21 +0000 Received: from DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.161.55.144]) by DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.161.55.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:06:21 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: "Loa Andersson (loa@pi.nu)" , "swallow@cisco.com" , "Ross Callon (rcallon@juniper.net)" Thread-Topic: LDP Entity Table in RFC 3815 Thread-Index: AdACb6TDjGWnfdfTTsy6aIRdMunM8w== Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:06:21 +0000 Message-ID: <5e9f4ce48e1c47e5ac73f9e7ca122dd1@DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.234.56.21] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB3PR03MB0953; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB3PR03MB0953; x-forefront-prvs: 03982FDC1D x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(252514010)(199003)(51874003)(189002)(40100003)(19609705001)(15975445006)(15202345003)(16236675004)(122556002)(87936001)(19625215002)(101416001)(2501002)(19580395003)(19580405001)(2656002)(97736003)(86362001)(1941001)(76576001)(66066001)(105586002)(106356001)(33646002)(19300405004)(74316001)(92566001)(108616004)(4396001)(64706001)(20776003)(21056001)(77096003)(62966003)(77156002)(95666004)(46102003)(54356999)(50986999)(120916001)(99396003)(107046002)(31966008)(229853001)(7059030)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB3PR03MB0953; H:DB3PR03MB0812.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5e9f4ce48e1c47e5ac73f9e7ca122dd1DB3PR03MB0812eurprd03pr_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ecitele.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/jbOkyvLwvzIXUt8GzXhdM-vzGjc Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] LDP Entity Table in RFC 3815 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:07:21 -0000 --_000_5e9f4ce48e1c47e5ac73f9e7ca122dd1DB3PR03MB0812eurprd03pr_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Loa, George, Ross and all hi, I apologize in advance for a possibly na=EFve question, but I have, so far,= failed to understand what is represented by individual entries in the LDP = Entity Table in RFC 3815. One possible interpretation is that a given node and for a given LDP Ident= ifier, would typically support up to two entries in the table: =B7 One entry would be responsible for all direct sessions (and hen= ce the value of Targeted Peer in this entry would be set to False) =B7 Another entry would be responsible for all targeted sessions (w= ith the value of Targeted Peer set to True) =B7 Each entry would be explicitly created by a suitable management= operation (using the Row Status) =B7 Multiple peers (each with its own sessions) would be associated= with each entity (as suggested by indexing for the LDP Peer Table). Yet another possible interpretation is that a separate LDP Entity could be = created for each interface on which LDP is enabled. This is suggested by th= e statement in description of mplsLdpEntityIndex that says that ifIndex (pr= esumably of an interface on which LDP has been enabled) may be used as the = LDP Entity Index. This interpretation does not contradict the previous one= , because it could refer to "real" interfaces for direct sessions and to lo= opback interfaces for targeted sessions. This interpretation would also fac= ilitate adding/removing LDP-enabled interface to/from a node. However, this= interpretation does not sit well with the definition of the next free inde= x for the LDP Entity table. However, neither of these interpretations looks compatible with the followi= ng text from the definition of Admin Status of the LDP Entity Table entry: If this object is changed from 'enable' to 'disable' and this entity has already attempted to establish contact with a Peer, then all contact with that Peer is lost and all information from that Peer needs to be removed from the MIB. The fact that "Peer" (highlighted in this text) appears in singular strongl= y suggests that a single entry in the LDP Entity table corresponds to at mo= st one peer. Any clarifications on the subject would be highly appreciated. Regards, and lots of thanks in advance, Sasha Regards, Sasha Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com Mobile: 054-9266302 --_000_5e9f4ce48e1c47e5ac73f9e7ca122dd1DB3PR03MB0812eurprd03pr_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Loa, George, Ross and all hi,

    I apologize in advance for a possibly na=EFve questi= on, but I have, so far, failed to understand what is represented by individ= ual entries in the LDP Entity  Table in RFC 3815.

     

    One possible interpretation is that  a given no= de and for a given LDP Identifier, would typically support up to two entrie= s in the table:

    =B7         One entry would be = responsible for all direct sessions (and hence the value of Targeted Peer i= n this entry would be set to False)

    =B7         Another entry would= be responsible for all targeted sessions (with the value of Targeted Peer = set to True)

    =B7         Each entry would be= explicitly created by a suitable management operation (using the Row Statu= s)

    =B7         Multiple peers (eac= h with its own sessions) would be associated with each entity (as suggested= by indexing  for the LDP Peer Table).

     

    Yet another possible interpretation is that a separa= te LDP Entity could be created for each interface on which LDP is enabled. = This is suggested by the statement in description of mplsLdpEntityIndex tha= t says that ifIndex (presumably of an interface on which LDP has been enabled) may be used as the LDP Entity = Index.  This interpretation does not contradict the previous one, beca= use it could refer to “real” interfaces for direct sessions and= to loopback interfaces for targeted sessions. This interpretation would also facilitate adding/removing LDP-enabled interface= to/from a node. However, this interpretation does not sit well with the de= finition of the next free index for the LDP Entity table.

     

    However, neither of these interpretations looks comp= atible with the following text from the definition of Admin Status of the L= DP Entity Table entry:

     

           &nbs= p;     If this object is changed from 'enable' to 'disa= ble'

           &nbs= p;     and this entity has already attempted to establi= sh

           &nbs= p;     contact with a Peer, then = all contact with that

           &nbs= p;     Peer is lost = and all information from that Peer

           &nbs= p;     needs to be removed from the MIB.

     

    The fact that “Peer” (highlighted in this text) appea= rs in singular stro= ngly suggests that a single entry in the LDP Entity table corresponds to at= most one peer.

     

    Any clarifications on the subject would be highly ap= preciated.

     

    Regards, and lots of thanks in advance,

    Sasha

     

     

     

     

    Regards,

           Sasha

    Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

    Mobile: 054-9266302

     

    --_000_5e9f4ce48e1c47e5ac73f9e7ca122dd1DB3PR03MB0812eurprd03pr_-- From nobody Tue Nov 18 01:30:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0379C1A014E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:30:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c8hJKWeJz_68 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4672A1A012D for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOX58613; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:30:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA409-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.41) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:29:57 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.131]) by SZXEMA409-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:29:53 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: "draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt Thread-Index: AdADEjRBDChTwzKkRkOoLP9pbSL8oQ== Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:29:53 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.97.72] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/O5XVFDsEsLuqRjMN8RsiFPvew1w Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:30:09 -0000 Hi Authors, I am assigned as a MPLS-RT reviewer of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt.=20 The draft is well written and ready for a call adoption. I have two comment= s as below: 1. It's better to expand the acronyms (e.g., MRT, LDP, etc.) in the first usag= e. 2. "4.1. MRT Capability Advertisement It is not possible to support MRT without supporting the LDP multi- topology extensions, but it is possible that the only use of the multi-topology extensions is for MRT. In that case, a router MAY not negotiate the multi-topology capability and only negotiate the MRT Capability with its LDP peers. Negotiation of the multi-topology capability is not required with negotiation of the MRT capability." Personally, I'd like that the MRT capability does not coupled with MT capab= ility. This may bring extra logic/complex to the implementation. Suppose th= at an LSR advertises the MRT capability to its neighbors and then withdraw = it later, then the receiver LSRs have to determine whether withdraw the MT = capability as well. More seriously, for the MT capability negotiation proce= ss, since it does not know whether there is MRT, so when an LSR receives an= MT withdraw, how it handles its MT capability?=20 Best regards, Mach From nobody Tue Nov 18 13:31:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B417E1A8ADE for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:31:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bD4zxQEz6wZV for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AFC51A8AE3 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:31:10 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-e8-546b5f29d26b Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 80.FA.25146.92F5B645; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:00:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:31:08 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Loa Andersson , Mach Chen , "stbryant@cisco.com" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHP8qH/uHA7SUa1rUOsPm4H8eedM5xnBACA Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:31:07 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B89337A@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <20141027160938.19401.5417.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <544F7D57.8030609@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <544F7D57.8030609@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B89337Aeusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlK5mfHaIwaUzlhbPzi9jtPg3dw6z xYW1whZ3dn1htfh+aQmLxa2lK1ktzj2dw+jA7tH6bC+rx5TfG1k9Wo68ZfVYsuQnk8es6W1s Hl8uf2YLYIvisklJzcksSy3St0vgytgz4wJLwfLMij93v7E0MC6P7GLk5JAQMJG4vfwqG4Qt JnHh3nogm4tDSOAIo8T7z4ugnOWMEo9Xz2EGqWITMJJ4sbGHvYuRg0NEIEfiyQlDkBpmgb+M EhvWngWbJCxgJzF10kYmEFtEwF7ic+sXVgjbSGL91/tgNouAqsThntksIDavgK/EpHctYLaQ QLTE3y0dYHM4gWr27HrPCGIzAl33/dQasJnMAuISt57MZ4K4WkBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWwl iUlLz7FC1OdLLLvXzwaxS1Di5MwnLBMYRWchGTULSdksJGUQcR2JBbs/sUHY2hLLFr5mhrHP HHjMhCy+gJF9FSNHaXFqWW66keEmRmC8HpNgc9zBuOCT5SFGAQ5GJR7eDa5ZIUKsiWXFlbmH GKU5WJTEeTWr5wULCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYBRLEhQrnfkmt7Nlx5IDLy5W TMq8vyYgsTOjoCJR6YGQ4Aq//QHW51sP/FTZ5halvcGwsHlKzMonqan381Y5vtyZc9Yn/cbs SP69BdtueLs+2LrwRG7ZAS0V430CCuyZ9W6CjllfJb/cmMQ92aTy5X2flQ+niYl6TrUwMgiQ k3y46XD+4o9P1JRYijMSDbWYi4oTAZPO2R+4AgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/wqUZAD4HfKEgh96Ml9A9ikQo6mo Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:31:14 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B89337Aeusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors, MPLS WG chairs, et. al, I've been asked to review the draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt. The document is very well written, technically sound and clearly addresses = integral part of MRT-FRR solution. It is ready for the WG adoption in my opinion. Below are my comments to authors that are should not be viewed as gating th= e adoption: * section 4.1, I'd consider padding the MRT Capability TLV with extra= 3 octets and changing the Length field accordingly to 4; * section 4.3, a bit strange that IANA request to allocate MT-IDs for= MRT-Red and MRT-Blue is in ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-architecture and not in this= document as for Rainbow-MRT's MT-ID (section 4.2). Perhaps by grouping all= in one request would make it logistically easier and minimize inter-depend= ency of the MRT-FRR documents. Thank you for your kind consideration. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 4:26 AM To: Mach Chen; stbryant@cisco.com; Gregory Mirsky Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); draft-atlas-mpl= s-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt Mach, Stewart and Greg, You have be selected as MPLS-RT reviewers for draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt. Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know that= this review is going on. However, please do not review your own document. Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it useful (i= e, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is the = document technically sound? We are interested in knowing whether the docum= ent is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be pe= rfect at this point, but should be a good start). Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG secreta= ry, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be sent = privately to only the WG chairs. If you have technical comments you should try to be explicit about what *really* need to be resolved before adopting it as a working group document= , and what can wait until the document is a working group document and the = working group has the revision control. Are you able to review this draft by Nov 18, 2014? Please respond in a time= ly fashion. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG chair) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:09:38 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: mpls@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gr= oup of the IETF. Title : LDP Extensions to Support Maximally Redundant Trees Authors : Alia Atlas Kishore Tiruveedhula Chris Bowers Jeff Tantsura IJsbrand Wijnands Filename : draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2014-10-27 Abstract: This document specifies extensions to LDP to support the creation of label-switched paths for Maximally Redundant Trees (MRT). A prime use of MRTs is for unicast and multicast IP/LDP Fast-Reroute, which we will refer to as MRT-FRR. The sole protocol extension to LDP is simply the ability to advertise an MRT Capability. This document describes that extension and the associated behavior expected for LSRs and LERs advertising the MRT Capability. MRT-FRR uses LDP multi-topology extensions and requires three different multi-topology IDs to be allocated from the LDP MT-ID space. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B89337Aeusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Dear Authors, MPLS WG chairs, et. al,
    I've been asked to review the draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt.
     
    The document is very well written, technically sound and clearly addre= sses integral part of MRT-FRR solution.
    It is ready for the WG adoption in my opinion.
     
    Below are my comments to authors that are should not be viewed as gati= ng the adoption:
    • section 4.1, I'd consider padding the MRT Capability TLV with extra 3 o= ctets and changing the Length field accordingly to 4;
    • section 4.3, = a bit strange that IANA request to allocate MT-IDs for MRT-Red and MRT-Blue= is in ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-architecture and not in this document as for Rain= bow-MRT’s MT-ID (section 4.2). Perhaps by grouping all in one request= would make it logistically easier and minimize inter-dependency of the MRT-FRR documents.
     
    Thank you for your kind consideration.
     
            Regards,
               &nbs= p;    Greg
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 4:26 AM
    To: Mach Chen; stbryant@cisco.com; Gregory Mirsky
    Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN); draft-atlas-mpl= s-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org
    Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt
     
    Mach, Stewart and Greg,
     
    You have be selected as MPLS-RT reviewers for  draft-atlas-mpls-l= dp-mrt.
     
    Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know= that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own docum= ent.
     
    Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it usef= ul (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational networks), and is= the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether= the document is ready to be considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but shoul= d be a good start).
     
    Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG se= cretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments may be = sent privately to only the WG chairs.
     
    If you have technical comments you should try to be explicit about wha= t
    *really* need to be resolved before adopting it as a working group doc= ument, and what can wait until the document is a working group document and= the working group has the revision control.
     
    Are you able to review this draft by Nov 18, 2014? Please respond in a= timely fashion.
     
     
    Thanks, Loa
    (as MPLS WG chair)
     
     
    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt
    Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:09:38 -0700
     
     
    A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
      This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching = Working Group of the IETF.
     
             Title  &nbs= p;        : LDP Extensions to Support Ma= ximally Redundant
    Trees
             Authors  &n= bsp;      : Alia Atlas
               &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  Kishore Tiruveedhula
               &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  Chris Bowers
               &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  Jeff Tantsura
               &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  IJsbrand Wijnands
            Filename   &= nbsp;    : draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02.txt
            Pages   &nbs= p;       : 16
            Date    = ;        : 2014-10-27
     
    Abstract:
        This document specifies extensions to LDP to suppor= t the creation of
        label-switched paths for Maximally Redundant Trees = (MRT).  A prime
        use of MRTs is for unicast and multicast IP/LDP Fas= t-Reroute, which
        we will refer to as MRT-FRR.
     
        The sole protocol extension to LDP is simply the ab= ility to advertise
        an MRT Capability.  This document describes th= at extension and the
        associated behavior expected for LSRs and LERs adve= rtising the MRT
        Capability.
     
        MRT-FRR uses LDP multi-topology extensions and requ= ires three
        different multi-topology IDs to be allocated from t= he LDP MT-ID
        space.
     
     
    The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
     
    There's also a htmlized version available at:
     
    A diff from the previous version is available at:
    http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt-02
     
     
    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=
     
    Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
     
    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
     
     
     
     --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B89337Aeusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Tue Nov 18 16:08:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CB81A8706; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:08:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HFcXwEUkz9Ts; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 226831A0404; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.220.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 93218180110A; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:08:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:05 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , rtgwg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/LQo8PNMGEdWLDODCGJ3goqdSf6I Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:08:22 -0000 Working Groups, We have don an MPLS-RT of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt, the reviews has been posted to the mpls wg mailing list. In his MPLS-RT review Stewart Bryant says: "I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the maturity expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting." He also says that he see no reason not to go ahead and start the poll to see if we have consensus to adopt the document as an mpls wg document. The question Stewart ask is valid, and we'd like input from the rtgwg and rtgwg chairs (copied on this mail). We will also copy both the poll for adoption and the wglc to the rtgwg mailing list. /Loa mpls wg co-chair -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Wed Nov 19 03:58:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5884C1A19EE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:58:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9OM8MbJJl29j; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A44A1A1B24; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:58:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141119115803.4759.34336.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:58:03 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/8C_gddsHtB0Ao_sl5mX6iR-nD_4 Subject: [mpls] State changed: charter-ietf-mpls-06-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:58:05 -0000 State changed to Internal review. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ From nobody Wed Nov 19 08:38:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608571AD363 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:38:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2dX8sP9BZPjG for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0123.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.123]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2477D1A1A66 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:38:52 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:38:52 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWg== Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:38:51 +0000 Message-ID: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; x-forefront-prvs: 04004D94E2 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(37854004)(199003)(189002)(33646002)(230783001)(20776003)(97736003)(64706001)(46102003)(76576001)(108616004)(74316001)(66066001)(50986999)(101416001)(2501002)(54356999)(107886001)(95666004)(107046002)(2351001)(110136001)(92566001)(99396003)(229853001)(99286002)(86362001)(120916001)(40100003)(450100001)(105586002)(62966003)(77096003)(106356001)(4396001)(77156002)(87936001)(31966008)(122556002)(2656002)(21056001)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; H:CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/lbbEXWBh2MYh2K9CUuFEbRmLglM Subject: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:38:56 -0000 Folks At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping: 1) Why not use BFD? 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format? Responses follow: 1) Why not use BFD? Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR.=20 By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive. 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]= . However, they are more resource intensive. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RES= V message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the LSP only after the L= SP Self Ping session terminates successfully 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format? LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long.=20 I will update the draft to reflect this information. Ron Bonica From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:19:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013C01AD39D; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:19:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uWEAqJ20j838; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC14A1AD396; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:19:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141119171907.5883.59788.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:19:07 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/0CHkWCNDtwb-RrmIzwtUfnqhVRE Subject: [mpls] Telechat update notice: X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:19:12 -0000 Telechat date has been changed to 2014-11-25 from 2013-08-15 ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:54:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003491AD3D9 for ; 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bh=TouU3FOG8fXSLS78px+8ttVh5jGabqZEAhw1/Tw5zuQ=; b=ZxF8lZDK9E43lb4jppReiqD0mEddwCIoAD1PAVGUj9B867y3sI+aRXji sIT0S1wABy5T1n1QVJL0Vbh4NZrvHc/S5CnC1mBjhNZtLXbtxeHUQAryE NrpzbHWhj61tKAMuZce8s185PT6Iji4S6O/2mhogQyd/06VO607W2gZ/Y M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiYFAMTYbFStJA2B/2dsb2JhbABagw6BLgTTYAKBCBYBAQEBAX2EAwIEOlEBCA4oQiUCBAESiEHUPQEBAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEBG5EPhEsBBJJXjAqBM4NVkXODe22BCCQcgQMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,418,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="373588991" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Nov 2014 17:54:15 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAJHsEHB020832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:54:14 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.7.228]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:54:14 -0600 From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" To: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBCHUTmM6dvtBfUKHWodIUpuUeA== Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:54:13 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.21.99.211] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1BDB118CD2831B449799199BF0F62BD8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fmCiRSVQ3kHMaaCF5j9DO-N0VPA Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:54:17 -0000 Hi Ron, Please see below.. On 11/19/14, 11:38 AM, "Ronald Bonica" wrote: >1) Why not use BFD? > >Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping >session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second >after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane >resources on the egress LSR. > >By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a >longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in >environments where BFD is too resource intensive. > I think this can be achieved by multiphop echo BFD control packet sent as self destinated. IMHO, the size will be less for BFD packet and still the validation can be done without the control plane involvement of egress node. Also with SBFD and BFD HW offload in egress, I think it should not be a concern. On the same line, I think, a deployment that is concerned about the initial drops for few msec will also be concerned about the LSP health (ex: continuous traffic blackholing due to DP failure) and may need BFD to perform the check. So the use of BFD will help with both initial and continuous check. -Nagendra From nobody Wed Nov 19 12:26:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1934B1A1B85 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:26:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ti4kZKHA9pv3 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:26:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0144.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A36F11A6FC0 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB444.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:26:29 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:26:28 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgACtcuAAAT6yHA= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:26:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4edcf8e2e8e945a3a22db4396ef76bd5@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; x-forefront-prvs: 04004D94E2 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(51704005)(189002)(87936001)(76576001)(2501002)(2656002)(107046002)(101416001)(107886001)(62966003)(77096003)(77156002)(33646002)(74316001)(108616004)(122556002)(20776003)(64706001)(120916001)(76176999)(50986999)(21056001)(54356999)(40100003)(230783001)(99396003)(105586002)(106356001)(46102003)(97736003)(31966008)(95666004)(86362001)(99286002)(92566001)(4396001)(66066001)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; H:CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Q8QAHVSTzb1Gbw7Tzf9EWiupbD0 Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:26:35 -0000 > > > I think this can be achieved by multiphop echo BFD control > packet sent as self destinated. IMHO, the size will be less for BFD packe= t and > still the validation can be done without the control plane involvement o= f > egress node. Also with SBFD and BFD HW offload in egress, I think it shou= ld > not be a concern. >=20 Nagendra, Which of the following are you proposing? 1) The ingress LSR formats a BFD control message and encapsulates in UDP an= d IP. The IP address is that of the ingress LSR. The ingress LSR forwards t= he packet over the LSR under test. The egress LSR receives the packet and f= orwards it back to the ingress LSR, exactly as it would forward any other p= acket. The egress LSR never examines anything beyond the IP header. 2) Something else If something else, what? Ron From nobody Wed Nov 19 15:56:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63D71A1B0F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Z2K8CwMMrtJ for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 919C81A1AA4 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1210; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416441394; x=1417650994; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=OGqpH+GjIhmOklipLYWl3UcLP8fqIY0vPnco08PGQ4U=; b=HuO8D86wogFQ/vPMFY8zJWcILrKdv3CTVEHla6iICqgbyKssyLLzQSYr R5FqeY0L/MnP/DHvojLbMdzGff2GIWDTctCzYGxtZXbX7BXi3Vaulms4d WF9Pqq06TlvTM/7LX2xe4yeF3RmFD4cokxwiWR7GtQOuLZMESQW8t3AFl A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AikFAKMtbVStJA2G/2dsb2JhbABagw5VWQTMHwqHSQKBCBYBAQEBAX2EAwEBBAEBATc0HQEIDig3CyUCBAESiEEN1C4BAQEBAQEBAwEBAQEBAQEBARUEkF0yhEsFkleMCpZ7g3ttgQgkHIEDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,420,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="373758880" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Nov 2014 23:56:34 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com [173.36.12.77]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAJNuX0g013055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:56:33 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.7.228]) by xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com ([173.36.12.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:56:33 -0600 From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" To: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBCHUTmM6dvtBfUKHWodIUpuUeJxoyoMA///m3oA= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:56:33 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4edcf8e2e8e945a3a22db4396ef76bd5@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.21.90.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/C17u1wQrT_QSnBOe8q8rw6Y79YY Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:56:37 -0000 Hi Ron, On 11/19/14, 3:26 PM, "Ronald Bonica" wrote: >> > >> I think this can be achieved by multiphop echo BFD control >> packet sent as self destinated. IMHO, the size will be less for BFD >>packet and >> still the validation can be done without the control plane involvement >>of >> egress node. Also with SBFD and BFD HW offload in egress, I think it >>should >> not be a concern. >>=20 > >Nagendra, > >Which of the following are you proposing? > >1) The ingress LSR formats a BFD control message and encapsulates in UDP >and IP. The IP address is that of the ingress LSR. The ingress LSR >forwards the packet over the LSR under test. The egress LSR receives the >packet and forwards it back to the ingress LSR, exactly as it would >forward any other packet. The egress LSR never examines anything beyond >the IP header. Yes and I think this can be achieved with both traditional and SBFD. =20 > >2) Something else > >If something else, what? > > Ron > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Wed Nov 19 16:37:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02451A8750 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:37:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ilQLPLGM11w for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0797.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::797]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54FBB1A1B1B for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:36:49 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:36:49 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgACtcuAAAT6yHAAB6y8gAAAuldA Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:36:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4edcf8e2e8e945a3a22db4396ef76bd5@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; x-forefront-prvs: 0401647B7F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(24454002)(13464003)(199003)(189002)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(33646002)(97736003)(230783001)(101416001)(54356999)(2501002)(20776003)(64706001)(108616004)(76576001)(74316001)(66066001)(50986999)(76176999)(107886001)(95666004)(107046002)(92566001)(99286002)(99396003)(86362001)(561944003)(120916001)(40100003)(62966003)(19580395003)(105586002)(46102003)(15975445006)(19580405001)(77096003)(106356001)(4396001)(77156002)(31966008)(87936001)(122556002)(21056001)(2656002)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; H:CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/QA6xZOfJS0Nfwzm8qb3K_xMq99c Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:37:16 -0000 Nagendra, If 1) is what you are proposing, there is virtually no difference between y= our proposal and what is documented in the draft. In either case: - The egress LSR never looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwards the p= acket based upon IP destination. - On the ingress node, the packet is forwarded to a dynamic UDP port. The a= pplication listening on that port is neither BFD nor MPLS Echo. It is LSP S= elf Ping. The only difference between the two proposals is the format of the probe me= ssage. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) [mailto:naikumar@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:57 PM > To: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments fro= m > the mike >=20 > Hi Ron, >=20 > On 11/19/14, 3:26 PM, "Ronald Bonica" wrote: >=20 > >> > > >> I think this can be achieved by multiphop echo BFD control > >>packet sent as self destinated. IMHO, the size will be less for BFD > >>packet and still the validation can be done without the control > >>plane involvement of egress node. Also with SBFD and BFD HW offload > >>in egress, I think it should not be a concern. > >> > > > >Nagendra, > > > >Which of the following are you proposing? > > > >1) The ingress LSR formats a BFD control message and encapsulates in UDP > >and IP. The IP address is that of the ingress LSR. The ingress LSR > >forwards the packet over the LSR under test. The egress LSR receives the > >packet and forwards it back to the ingress LSR, exactly as it would > >forward any other packet. The egress LSR never examines anything beyond > >the IP header. >=20 > Yes and I think this can be achieved with both traditional and SBFD. >=20 > > > >2) Something else > > > >If something else, what? > > > > Ron > > > >_______________________________________________ > >mpls mailing list > >mpls@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Wed Nov 19 19:28:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA461A0007 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ShXmDV7NtV6p for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 244F01A0013 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id w10so2201753pde.10 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=NX3+BbPsonNZR4EZIU8Krayhfdw+EAz6wBkeUvcfg4E=; b=NhksHbCneeRuBlviNQtu0uhdyu5jHjCdcgJY+NsouPcziDAHRIStbnWHzKV5LOcRCm MjRYWJyTrij7vLeUmix/ZP++lGUzCuNCdiWSgY9eng37XYoLfjix51KYAutC0+Uzxwaq zGGMe808H5R5aSy2Kluj7K6u727741PZY9/FFiqvgC6pYuZZszFUOplPHx6B2MeOpMBP rcdXwbWFPQ3GjJmu8o0xlk8g+yL4QkOkpm7ciwi9JdfcukB8FQJbfVhACVYHj/crMddM 0bWFiEoKYI0Ilp14wjKDxhvChWqTlXRJeP6eDBTQRSm17IS34oHiemPHVy+jzTYHnbab oZew== X-Received: by 10.70.36.234 with SMTP id t10mr27448889pdj.63.1416454082343; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (c-107-3-154-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bv3sm586261pdb.32.2014.11.19.19.28.01 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B9F73C1F-F9A0-464C-B2A4-7A97528D71A1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:28:00 -0800 Message-Id: <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> To: Ronald Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/nifO3eiSmJPb4yuWL2GiYdajdAg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 03:28:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B9F73C1F-F9A0-464C-B2A4-7A97528D71A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Ron, Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo = request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft = says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is = forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to = process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress. Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly as it would forward any other packet." Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the ingress = then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back at = Ingress, correct? 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. cheers -sam > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica = wrote: >=20 > Folks >=20 > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >=20 > Responses follow: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? >=20 > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >=20 > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >=20 > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >=20 > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >=20 > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >=20 > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >=20 > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >=20 > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >=20 > I will update the draft to reflect this information. >=20 > Ron Bonica >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --Apple-Mail=_B9F73C1F-F9A0-464C-B2A4-7A97528D71A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi Ron,

    Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, = have few of questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response = in advance.

    1. = (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct?  Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR = or something else too?
    2. What happens if there is = LSP breakage or something and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? = Doesn't it process? I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane = processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, = which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the = ip address to send it back to ingress.

    Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS = Echo message to its destination, the
       ingress LSR.  The egress LSR forwards =
the MPLS Echo message exactly
   as it would forward any other packet."

    Could =
you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking =
up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control =
plane of OAM process?
    3. Is the assertion that, if = Echo Reply is received back at the ingress then it is failure, rather it = should receive Echo Request back at Ingress, correct?
    4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via = Egress?

    Will = followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses.

    cheers
    -sam

    On = Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>= wrote:

    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following = points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping = does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other than the = egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How = does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traffic = in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS = Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet = format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is = an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping session emits = one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initiation. = Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the = egress LSR.

    By contrast, BFD is designed = to verify bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of time. = Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environments where BFD is = too resource intensive.

    2) Self-ping does = not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

    Self= Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control = plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional = LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP = instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The = LSR at one end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives = a RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self = Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards = traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use = MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other packet format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet = formats. The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which = the 64 bit session identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was = convenient because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

    = --Apple-Mail=_B9F73C1F-F9A0-464C-B2A4-7A97528D71A1-- From nobody Wed Nov 19 19:39:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778D11A001A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Y3L9KXLlwMd for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x22b.google.com (mail-pa0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 623D51A0018 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id kx10so1645181pab.16 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=sMr5vuP+R5Ma79tq7KT9SRqw+HPRaLjVVlW1hUag4aA=; b=RXuEdtkBVIeRYPeN977Xzxga1hfpnWzUCkIqnjjAtkjxqs+ecEIoRddn5AHdwjWJck 2nAftRcQamyKtc14spA6xf0BlNyd+fsE5mBI2A/XqTIjDiSGGcR2nEG4TITagET4hzbo u2AbnNDSwXB//tLSyDnWMmQstoRbl8/kyP0Z2ED/KzIdbbBj6CdqG2F28ny6C7jdB24v xwX1NoaB+JK6+D1kSg0UXZwqjXF5n35MFscwivsAzoEreN41M2DCOd2tgt4Rh+hmfPgq WmbNa901h/uD+MSOqEph8xBDGQl9Xnr3KiR2yTcDNqPV02ZAKyr6eIv0HOKkp8GExfpj rtWw== X-Received: by 10.70.126.38 with SMTP id mv6mr52288491pdb.28.1416454764653; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (c-107-3-154-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id yw3sm565454pbc.88.2014.11.19.19.39.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:23 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CD238AE4-8C5E-4CCF-909D-4F27F4394EC0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:39:22 -0800 Message-Id: <3964B0F6-A978-424E-97EB-75DE61DAC62B@gmail.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> To: Ronald Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/_QlkiyhhReGsiJ4K8Vg3e4yEKFA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 03:39:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CD238AE4-8C5E-4CCF-909D-4F27F4394EC0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii BTW, the draft also proposes the IP destination as routable address and = not local host address. This is re-defining the semantics defined in RFC4379. Secondly, as mentioned earlier, when there is LSP failure, the packet = will be routed to destination address, as Echo request. which in this = case is ingress LSR. -sam > On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Sam Aldrin wrote: >=20 > Hi Ron, >=20 > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. >=20 > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo = request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft = says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is = forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to = process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress. >=20 > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > as it would forward any other packet." >=20 > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the = ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back = at Ingress, correct? > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? >=20 > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. >=20 > cheers > -sam >=20 >> On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: >>=20 >> Folks >>=20 >> At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >>=20 >> 1) Why not use BFD? >> 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >> 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >> 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >>=20 >> Responses follow: >>=20 >> 1) Why not use BFD? >>=20 >> Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >>=20 >> By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >>=20 >> 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >>=20 >> Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >>=20 >> 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >>=20 >> In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >>=20 >> 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >>=20 >> LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >>=20 >> I will update the draft to reflect this information. >>=20 >> Ron Bonica >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 --Apple-Mail=_CD238AE4-8C5E-4CCF-909D-4F27F4394EC0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii BTW, the draft also proposes the IP destination as routable = address and not local host address.
    This is re-defining = the semantics defined in RFC4379.
    Secondly, as = mentioned earlier, when there is LSP failure, the packet will be routed = to destination address, as Echo request. which in this case is ingress = LSR.

    -sam
    On = Nov 19, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi Ron,

    Still trying to = understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of questions and need = clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance.

    1. (clarification q) The = Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with destination IP address to self, = and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct?  Is this the only = thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or something else too?
    2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the = Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that = draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet = is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have = to process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress.

    Draft = says "The = egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destination, = the
       ingress LSR.  The =
egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
   as it would forward any other packet."

    Could =
you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking =
up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control =
plane of OAM process?
    3. Is the assertion that, if = Echo Reply is received back at the ingress then it is failure, rather it = should receive Echo Request back at Ingress, correct?
    4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via = Egress?

    Will = followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses.

    cheers
    -sam

    On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>= wrote:

    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following = points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping = does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other than the = egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How = does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traffic = in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS = Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet = format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is = an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping session emits = one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initiation. = Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the = egress LSR.

    By contrast, BFD is designed = to verify bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of time. = Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environments where BFD is = too resource intensive.

    2) Self-ping does = not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

    Self= Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control = plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional = LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP = instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The = LSR at one end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives = a RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self = Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards = traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use = MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other packet format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet = formats. The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which = the 64 bit session identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was = convenient because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


    = --Apple-Mail=_CD238AE4-8C5E-4CCF-909D-4F27F4394EC0-- From nobody Thu Nov 20 05:33:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB8A1A0270 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 05:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7rW0VCiaKDvO for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 05:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD7D71A0262 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 05:33:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2469; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416490420; x=1417700020; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=jalh0xTykB4gjU0ddkYHOlk+tIKCLYEFqSiYIqgE/PE=; b=Siymey/V+R3340r9HVCXzPz9bF+MDRS/VIg3iuNhVfbvjLthYMxDhv4k 6OQSuVsU+D0GSqdiQotZvjY30kc3n9VoEBiXFIyFjt93kwDAUfzMpJSA/ dqM6Z2YoZAEPfRwgeP9/koCNMTfHc007mHfT1gVyJEgy8Kox87z958gPn c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AisFAOXsbVStJA2D/2dsb2JhbABagw5VWQTLSgqHSQKBCBYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQE3NBcGAQgOAwQBAQEeCS4LFAkIAgQBEohBDdQzAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSQJhEBJTIGhEUFkleMCoEzkT+ECYN7bYEIBxcGHIEDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,424,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="98516581" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Nov 2014 13:33:39 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAKDXcHr031032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:33:38 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.7.228]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:33:38 -0600 From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" To: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBCHUTmM6dvtBfUKHWodIUpuUeJxoyoMA///m3oCAAF8UgIAAhTiA Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:33:38 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.21.90.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/rYOJadSboUn7_nPTVgDzDeG90xQ Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:33:42 -0000 Hi Ron, Yes. That is right. This being a local matter to ingress, I am trying to say that BFD can also be used, as a response to your initial email that said, why BFD cannot be used :) Regards, Nagendra On 11/19/14, 7:36 PM, "Ronald Bonica" wrote: >Nagendra, > >If 1) is what you are proposing, there is virtually no difference between >your proposal and what is documented in the draft. In either case: > >- The egress LSR never looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwards the >packet based upon IP destination. >- On the ingress node, the packet is forwarded to a dynamic UDP port. The >application listening on that port is neither BFD nor MPLS Echo. It is >LSP Self Ping. > >The only difference between the two proposals is the format of the probe >message. > > =20 >Ron > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) [mailto:naikumar@cisco.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:57 PM >> To: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments >>from >> the mike >>=20 >> Hi Ron, >>=20 >> On 11/19/14, 3:26 PM, "Ronald Bonica" wrote: >>=20 >> >> > >> >> I think this can be achieved by multiphop echo BFD control >> >>packet sent as self destinated. IMHO, the size will be less for BFD >> >>packet and still the validation can be done without the control >> >>plane involvement of egress node. Also with SBFD and BFD HW offload >> >>in egress, I think it should not be a concern. >> >> >> > >> >Nagendra, >> > >> >Which of the following are you proposing? >> > >> >1) The ingress LSR formats a BFD control message and encapsulates in >>UDP >> >and IP. The IP address is that of the ingress LSR. The ingress LSR >> >forwards the packet over the LSR under test. The egress LSR receives >>the >> >packet and forwards it back to the ingress LSR, exactly as it would >> >forward any other packet. The egress LSR never examines anything beyond >> >the IP header. >>=20 >> Yes and I think this can be achieved with both traditional and SBFD. >>=20 >> > >> >2) Something else >> > >> >If something else, what? >> > >> > Ron >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >mpls mailing list >> >mpls@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From nobody Thu Nov 20 06:42:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6D61A1A5B for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:42:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CkvGT9vtflFS for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FD81A1A58 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.138] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3FB8295320A; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:42:33 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6879C6E2-0F49-4820-AD3E-BD17E4D0ACD1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:42:33 -0500 Message-Id: References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> To: Sam Aldrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/zorAKJeEyPJNePzEmvsJQt67NvA Cc: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:42:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6879C6E2-0F49-4820-AD3E-BD17E4D0ACD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 =09 To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a = description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic = procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done for quite some time = using other means such as onboard automated scripts/actions after paths = are established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because I built = such a thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely. Also, as = Sam says, there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is = worth the additional complication (and required implementation + = associated delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means.=20 The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves whether or = not this something we really need to standardize. =E2=80=94Tom > On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin = wrote: >=20 > Hi Ron, >=20 > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. >=20 > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo = request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft = says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is = forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to = process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress. >=20 > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > as it would forward any other packet." >=20 > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the = ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back = at Ingress, correct? > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? >=20 > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. >=20 > cheers > -sam >=20 >> On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: >>=20 >> Folks >>=20 >> At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >>=20 >> 1) Why not use BFD? >> 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >> 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >> 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >>=20 >> Responses follow: >>=20 >> 1) Why not use BFD? >>=20 >> Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >>=20 >> By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >>=20 >> 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >>=20 >> Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >>=20 >> 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >>=20 >> In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >>=20 >> 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >>=20 >> LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >>=20 >> I will update the draft to reflect this information. >>=20 >> Ron Bonica >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --Apple-Mail=_6879C6E2-0F49-4820-AD3E-BD17E4D0ACD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 =
    To me what is described in the = draft seems like this is a description of a device/vendor feature that = automates the basic procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done = for quite some time using other means such as onboard automated = scripts/actions after paths are established/signaled. I say this not to = be glib, but because I built such a thing about 10 years ago that has = been deployed widely.  Also, as Sam says, there is some deviation = from RFC4379 which we should ask is worth the additional complication = (and required implementation + associated delay/etc...) versus just = using the existing means. 

    The bottom line is that we should = be asking ourselves whether or not this something we really need to = standardize.

    = =E2=80=94Tom



    On = Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi Ron,

    Still trying to = understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of questions and need = clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance.

    1. (clarification q) The = Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with destination IP address to self, = and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct?  Is this the only = thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or something else too?
    2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the = Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that = draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet = is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have = to process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress.

    Draft = says "The = egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destination, = the
       ingress LSR.  The =
egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
   as it would forward any other packet."

    Could =
you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking =
up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control =
plane of OAM process?
    3. Is the assertion that, if = Echo Reply is received back at the ingress then it is failure, rather it = should receive Echo Request back at Ingress, correct?
    4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via = Egress?

    Will = followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses.

    cheers
    -sam

    On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>= wrote:

    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following = points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping = does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other than the = egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How = does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traffic = in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS = Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet = format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is = an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping session emits = one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initiation. = Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the = egress LSR.

    By contrast, BFD is designed = to verify bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of time. = Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environments where BFD is = too resource intensive.

    2) Self-ping does = not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

    Self= Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control = plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional = LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP = instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The = LSR at one end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives = a RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self = Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards = traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use = MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other packet format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet = formats. The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which = the 64 bit session identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was = convenient because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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(PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x233.google.com (mail-yk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A6CE1A1A48; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 19so1521982ykq.24 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WJL3dxlmNwHHmXQ+NPunsrofn2tVGOCz4Lw9vcuM0pY=; b=KGTZgRmsmPAmzza/Qw8er7qSe9LXRXYl4arUBjvYeT05aCRMzKxoYLNuV3e2ymS93K Bsj9RMg0jegtV8l0Cn0oe06NCbWz78hombJu8posqKL4NsQI3aMYdrQ1USL6TQg3VoeX bBNZBiLV7s7O0+XZtvSMcFAjMsOAoV1ZJ4huwgC5U5asz+rrfhm54gyuBdNnY1MBV2nk k0hIqbw2UEyjwXiyeF/IEGBMPssMk/io4MrZ7ls4Rkl8lFLEtYIK9wBAqBf4Xh3jrTVv TC4aHAjQ8qplLFtmUZUv8eobKnFR1+/wtxImfKyWSZ0g+40e4JfqbWAHQImQHXl1jF7G BnpA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.202.196 with SMTP id t187mr24757315yke.36.1416507443298; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.172.86 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:17:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1139d06afac79505084e566f Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/6nAsdbs8hAI_m_E9k2t07J_NLbE Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org, "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:17:26 -0000 --001a1139d06afac79505084e566f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Loa, Without any hats on, I would note: a) As far as I'm aware, this has seen two independent prototypes implemented. b) I have not heard any concrete technical concerns. Stewart and I did specificallly discuss MRT this past IETF. I am, of course, quite interested in hearing any concrete technical concerns. c) I'd be happy seeing this question asked of more drafts :-) Regards, Alia On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Groups, > > We have don an MPLS-RT of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt, the reviews has been > posted to the mpls wg mailing list. > > In his MPLS-RT review Stewart Bryant says: > > "I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the maturity > expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be > taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining > the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published > ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting." > > He also says that he see no reason not to go ahead and start the poll to > see if we have consensus to adopt the document as an mpls wg document. > > The question Stewart ask is valid, and we'd like input from the rtgwg > and rtgwg chairs (copied on this mail). We will also copy both the > poll for adoption and the wglc to the rtgwg mailing list. > > /Loa > mpls wg co-chair > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > --001a1139d06afac79505084e566f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Loa,

    Without any hats on, I would note:=

    a) As far as I'm aware, this has seen two ind= ependent prototypes implemented.
    b) I have not heard any concrete= technical concerns.=C2=A0 Stewart and I did specificallly
    discus= s MRT this past IETF.=C2=A0 I am, of course, quite interested in hearing an= y
    concrete technical concerns.

    c) I'= d be happy seeing this question asked of more drafts :-)

    Regards,
    Alia


    On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Lo= a Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
    Wor= king Groups,

    We have don an MPLS-RT of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt, the reviews has been posted to the mpls wg mailing list.

    In his MPLS-RT review Stewart Bryant says:

    "I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the=C2=A0 mat= urity
    =C2=A0expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be =C2=A0taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining=
    =C2=A0the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published<= br> =C2=A0ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting.= "

    He also says that he see no reason not to go ahead and start the poll to see if we have consensus to adopt the document as an mpls wg document.

    The question Stewart ask is valid, and we'd like input from the rtgwg and rtgwg chairs (copied on this mail). We will also copy both the
    poll for adoption and the wglc to the rtgwg mailing list.

    /Loa
    mpls wg co-chair
    --


    Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
    Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loa@pi.nu
    Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739= 81 21 64

    _______________________________________________
    rtgwg mailing list
    rtgwg@ietf.org
    h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

    --001a1139d06afac79505084e566f-- From nobody Thu Nov 20 10:57:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7A41A1BB3 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:57:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -115.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-115.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5xU_4pxIFS7 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87B801A1B5D for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:57:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=54448; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416509849; x=1417719449; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=bMWFoqOcOtO2c4KYyMibYdHT2Ct/f/kX9V8DcXCAdjA=; b=Klgeg9TTeF1Hp3Yw6MIWq42Ium4ndfvlC8KJgAmr8F4gyTg9fJVqyXiZ hLxDPbV19YIm2gCL+Zd92VfdnRMt8tEwmLDPUmmyE3sjSboK4Adc998Bb jR9lzXp2ijPdqfXAM/SmHvJcAJUzIsjB8IYD4r1zNoeQqFUFpAyBKyGNF o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnwHAEc5blStJV2U/2dsb2JhbABagkgjI1VZBIMCyEsBCYdJAhxsFgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBBAEBASAKQQsQAgEIEQQBAQsWAQYDAgICHwYLFAkIAgQBDQUIE4gRAxIBDL43kA4Nhk8BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBI5NgWMnFhcEBgEGgnE2gR4FkC2CKocrgkuDR4NVijVIgm2ECYN7bYEGQoEDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,425,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="98616724" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Nov 2014 18:57:15 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAKIvFfA004770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:57:15 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 12:57:15 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: "Shah, Himanshu" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBHIHKykIxbRZcUyqspg5upfk9pxp/CCAgAAO/gD//8o1wA== Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:57:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [161.44.212.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F597DD3xmbalnx01ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/qXVVzOOxq4SPlcakohnndXYZVSk Cc: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12351A8837 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:15:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kMt6_buc57yl for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:15:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651351A8829 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:15:36 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,425,1413270000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="51101128" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 20 Nov 2014 11:22:54 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.16) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:15:35 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:15:34 -0800 From: Shahram Davari To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" , "Shah, Himanshu" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBHIGQV8deUI3uUmCYJyaJYtmbpxqHaeAgAAO/gCAADgsgP//fmFw Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:15:33 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4FSJEXCHMB12corpa_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/P5SajRJuUPLgZsSPM_yV5sbHhcw Cc: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org 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[107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id oo9sm2793195pdb.26.2014.11.20.11.56.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:56:58 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A59244EE-12AA-46FF-97A7-9BBE77F2236D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:56:55 -0800 Message-Id: <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> To: Shahram Davari X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/AClruQ3asulGgmJ92HMzqhRDTaU Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Ronald Bonica Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:57:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A59244EE-12AA-46FF-97A7-9BBE77F2236D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Nobo, [without shooting the messenger] In addition to what you listed, would like to see details on how this = ID will improve the performance at Egress should be clarified. i.e. IP routing Vs OAM process (w/o FEC validation). Also, how this = model helps if reverse IP path is not available (inter-domain, reverse = path broken, non-routable ingress IP address) and to what gain? There are many ways the LSP ping is being used, both as proprietary and = also part of eco system. If we go by the logic that this ID is needed, we will have slew of new = ID=E2=80=99s detailing different usage models. Hence, I totally agree with what Shahram and others have indicated. -sam > On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Shahram Davari = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Since the procedures in this draft generates and processes the test = packets on the same router and since other routers just forward = normally, why do we even need a draft? There is no interoperability = requirements, and each vendor can implement what they like. > =20 > Thanks > Shahram > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya = (nobo) > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:57 AM > To: Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > Hi, > =20 > Sort of summarizing what=E2=80=99s been stated but here=E2=80=99s my = observation of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping. > =20 > 1. LSP Ping and BFD MPLS already do what is being proposed. > 2. Ron needs a mechanism that is more efficient on egress LSRs, = with respect to resources and operational aspects. > 3. Any probe packet having destination IP address as the ingress = LSR has limitations in terms of how effective it can verify the DP = readiness. > 4. The proposal by Ron is limited to those LSPs that signal via = ordered mode (ex: LDP independent mode will not work) - same problem as = (3). > =20 > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to document what = has been implemented or what is being implemented, I=E2=80=99d like to = request followings to be captured in the document. > - limitations (3 and 4) so that readers are aware of them. > - usage of non-127/8 address as destination IP address in = MPLS echo request/reply deviates from RFC4379. > =20 > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate a = mechanism for efficient MPLS DP readiness test, and I=E2=80=99d like to = request that: > - requirements (2) are well captured. > - S-BFD be evaluated (as it addresses the efficiency = requirements and does not have limitations described by 3 and 4). > =20 > Himanshu, I have one comment in-line below. Please look for [NOBO]. > =20 > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Shah, Himanshu > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM > To: Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > This is exactly what I said at Mic. > We have been deploying MPLS for a while and if such DP active = verification was necessary, vendors have solved it without > standard specific solution, may that be BFD or self-ping. > =20 > One of the argument made was that client BFD session detects that = =E2=80=9Ctunnel is active but DP is not=E2=80=9D. > Does it imply there is some kind of UNI signaling going on between PE = and CE to indicate that tunnel has become > active, commence data? And the idea is that PE will refrain = notification until self-ping verify DP active? > =20 > If that is not the case then this technique is not even useful =E2=80=93= self ping is not actually causing the DP to become active, > If it doesn=E2=80=99t become active in the time window, what is PE = going to do? > =20 > [NOBO] That is another interesting aspect of the whole solution. = However, I believe that the problem scope of this document is much = smaller: ingress LSR to detect readiness of RSVP signaled LSP. For RSVP = signaled LSP, only the LSP that is =E2=80=9Cpassing the test=E2=80=9D = can be tied to the tunnel as the active LSP, so at least the ingress LSR = will not pump traffic into the tunnel without knowing whether DP = end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming that there are other ways to get to = the egress LSR from this ingress LSR, then the problem is solved. = Otherwise the ingress LSR will drop the traffic but the problem is = contained to that network node (i.e. packets are not traversing un-ready = LSP). > =20 > Thanks! > =20 > -Nobo > =20 > =20 > /himanshu > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Thomas D. Nadeau > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:43 AM > To: Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > =20 > To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a = description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic = procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done for quite some time = using other means such as onboard automated scripts/actions after paths = are established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because I built = such a thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely. Also, as = Sam says, there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is = worth the additional complication (and required implementation + = associated delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means.=20 > =20 > The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves = whether or not this something we really need to standardize. > =20 > =E2=80=94Tom > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin = > wrote: > =20 > Hi Ron, > =20 > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. > =20 > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo = request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft = says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is = forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to = process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress. > =20 > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > as it would forward any other packet." > =20 > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the = ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back = at Ingress, correct? > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? > =20 > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. > =20 > cheers > -sam > =20 > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: > =20 > Folks >=20 > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >=20 > Responses follow: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? >=20 > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >=20 > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >=20 > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >=20 > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >=20 > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >=20 > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >=20 > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >=20 > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >=20 > I will update the draft to reflect this information. >=20 > Ron Bonica >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = --Apple-Mail=_A59244EE-12AA-46FF-97A7-9BBE77F2236D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Nobo,

    [without shooting the messenger]

    In addition to what you listed, would = like to see details on how  this ID will improve the performance at = Egress should be clarified.
    i.e. IP routing Vs OAM = process (w/o FEC validation). Also, how this model helps if reverse IP = path is not available (inter-domain, reverse path broken, non-routable = ingress IP address) and to what gain?

    There are many ways the LSP ping is = being used, both as proprietary and also part of eco system.
    If we go by the logic that this ID is needed, we will have = slew of new ID=E2=80=99s detailing different usage models.

    Hence, I totally agree = with what Shahram and others have indicated.

    -sam

    On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>= wrote:

    Hi,
    Since the procedures in this draft generates and processes = the test packets on the same router and since other routers just forward = normally,  why do we even need a draft? There is no = interoperability requirements, and each vendor can implement what they = like.
     
    Thanks
    Shahram
     
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Nobo Akiya = (nobo)
    Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 10:57 AM
    To: Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. = Nadeau; Sam Aldrin
    Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
     
    Hi,
     
    Sort of summarizing what=E2=80=99s been stated but here=E2=80=99= s my observation of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping.
     
    1.       LSP Ping and BFD MPLS = already do what is being proposed.
    2.       Ron needs a mechanism = that is more efficient on egress LSRs, with respect to resources and = operational aspects.
    3.       Any probe packet having = destination IP address as the ingress LSR has limitations in terms of = how effective it can verify the DP readiness.
    4.       The proposal by Ron is = limited to those LSPs that signal via ordered mode (ex: LDP independent = mode will not work) - same problem as (3).
     
    If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to = document what has been implemented or what is being implemented, I=E2=80=99= d like to request followings to be captured in the document.
    -          limitations (3 and 4) = so that readers are aware of them.
    -          usage of non-127/8 = address as destination IP address in MPLS echo request/reply deviates = from RFC4379.
     
    If the intent of = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate a mechanism for efficient = MPLS DP readiness test, and I=E2=80=99d like to request that:
    -          requirements (2) are = well captured.
    -          S-BFD be evaluated (as = it addresses the efficiency requirements and does not have limitations = described by 3 and 4).
     
    Himanshu, I have one = comment in-line below. Please look for [NOBO].
     
     
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Shah, = Himanshu
    Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 10:36 AM
    To: Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam = Aldrin
    Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
     
    This is exactly what I said at Mic.
    We have been = deploying MPLS for a while and if such DP active verification was = necessary, vendors have solved it without
    standard specific = solution, may that be BFD or self-ping.
     
    One of the argument = made was that client BFD session detects that =E2=80=9Ctunnel is active = but DP is not=E2=80=9D.
    Does it imply there is some kind of UNI signaling going on = between PE and CE to indicate that tunnel has become
    active, commence = data? And the idea is that PE will refrain notification until self-ping = verify DP active?
     
    If that is not the = case then this technique is not even useful =E2=80=93 self ping is not = actually causing the DP to become active,
    If it doesn=E2=80=99t = become active in the time window, what is PE going to do?
     
    [NOBO] That is another = interesting aspect of the whole solution. However, I believe that the = problem scope of this document is much smaller: ingress LSR to detect = readiness of RSVP signaled LSP. For RSVP signaled LSP, only the LSP that = is =E2=80=9Cpassing the test=E2=80=9D can be tied to the tunnel as the = active LSP, so at least the ingress LSR will not pump traffic into the = tunnel without knowing whether DP end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming = that there are other ways to get to the egress LSR from this ingress = LSR, then the problem is solved. Otherwise the ingress LSR will drop the = traffic but the problem is contained to that network node (i.e. packets = are not traversing un-ready LSP).
     
    Thanks!
     
    -Nobo
     
     
    /himanshu
     
    From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Thomas D. = Nadeau
    Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 9:43 AM
    To: Sam Aldrin
    Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
     
            &= nbsp;   
            &= nbsp;   To me what is = described in the draft seems like this is a description of a = device/vendor feature that automates the basic procedures of 4379/etc.. = This can and has been done for quite some time using other means such as = onboard automated scripts/actions after paths are established/signaled. = I say this not to be glib, but because I built such a thing about 10 = years ago that has been deployed widely.  Also, as Sam says, there = is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is worth the = additional complication (and required implementation + associated = delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means. 
     
            &= nbsp;   The bottom line is = that we should be asking ourselves whether or not this something we = really need to standardize.
     
            &= nbsp;   =E2=80=94Tom
     
     
     
    On = Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> = wrote:
     
    Hi Ron,
     
    Still trying to understand the need for = the draft, hence, have few of questions and need clarifications. = Appreciate your response in advance.
     
    1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo = request, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR = (sec 2), correct?  Is this the only thing which identifies the = Ingress LSR or something else too?
    2. What happens if = there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo request ends up on = transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft says, this will avoid = control plane processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from ingress = to egress, which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. = look up the ip address to send it back to ingress.
     
    Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the
       ingress =
LSR.  The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
       as it would forward any other packet."
     
    Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet =
back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data =
plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?
    3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at = the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request = back at Ingress, correct?
    4. Why can't you use = LSP proxy ping to self via Egress?
     
    Will followup with additional questions, if any, = based on your responses.
     
    cheers
    -sam
     
    On Nov 19, 2014, at = 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
     
    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following = points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping = does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other than the = egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How = does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traffic = in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS = Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet = format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is = an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping session emits = one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initiation. = Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the = egress LSR. 

    By contrast, BFD is designed to verify = bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of time. Therefore, = MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environments where BFD is too resource = intensive.

    2) Self-ping does not diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet.

    Self Ping is = designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane = resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional = LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP = instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The = LSR at one end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives = a RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self = Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards = traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use = MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other packet format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet = formats. The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which = the 64 bit session identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was = convenient because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long. 

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
     
    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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<4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.123.39] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F598012xmbalnx01ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/IFLUTz0oB0Nk_pAvn5BwGWF7NSU Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Ronald Bonica Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:23:18 -0000 --_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F598012xmbalnx01ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N4ltTsrbCBJS for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com [67.231.144.234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F02991ACF5D for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0000419.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id sAKNuRYS012877; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:54 -0500 Received: from mdwexght02.ciena.com (LIN1-118-36-29.ciena.com [63.118.36.29]) by mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1qsp8grqhu-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:53 -0500 Received: from VAWVE2K13MBX01.ciena.com (10.4.156.87) by MDWEXGHT02.ciena.com (10.4.140.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:52 -0500 Received: from ONWVEXCHHT04.ciena.com (10.128.6.44) by VAWVE2K13MBX01.ciena.com (10.4.156.87) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.847.32; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:51 -0500 Received: from ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com ([::1]) by ONWVEXCHHT04.ciena.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:51 -0500 From: "Shah, Himanshu" To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" , Sam Aldrin , Shahram Davari Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:04:49 -0500 Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBHIHKykIxbRZcUyqspg5upfk9pxp/CCAgAAO/gD//8o1wIAAcxSAgAALj4D//89/EIAAD+Zw Message-ID: <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-CA Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-CA X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-10.0.0.1412-7.000.1014-21118.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--15.544500-0.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: Yes X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957CONWVEXCHMB04cie_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.28, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-11-21_01:2014-11-20,2014-11-20,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1411200188 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/RVIaU0t1kZyFmkxGNydie-gHtyA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Ronald Bonica Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 00:05:12 -0000 --_000_40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957CONWVEXCHMB04cie_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VW5kZXJzdGFuZCBkb2N1bWVudGluZyBoZWxwZnVsIHRlY2huaXF1ZXMgKG1vcmUgdXNlZnVsIGR1 cmluZyByZXN0b3JhdGlvbi9yZS1vcHRpbWl6YXRpb24gY2FzZXMpIGFzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uYWwg UkZDLCBidXQgSSBiZWxpZXZlIElFVEYgdXN1YWxseQ0KZW50ZXJ0YWlucyBwcm9wb3NhbHMgd2hp Y2ggaGFzIGludGVyb3BlcmFiaWxpdHkgaW1wbGljYXRpb25zLCBBRkFJSy4NCg0KV2hpY2ggaXMg 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with ESMTP id DD7D91A8750; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:54:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nIowPrb-2q0g; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:54:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEA191A86E5; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:54:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.209.44]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CFF61801561; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 02:54:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <546E9B61.6060005@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:54:41 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alia Atlas References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/zalyqf_HEUFEjXIWXIzWfXAZu10 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org, "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:54:55 -0000 Alia, Thanks for helpful information. We will go ahead with the mpls-rt review and unless the we hear anything to the contrary from the rtgwg-chairs also go ahead with the working group adoption poll (modulo the mpls-rt review outcome). /Loa On 2014-11-21 02:17, Alia Atlas wrote: > Loa, > > Without any hats on, I would note: > > a) As far as I'm aware, this has seen two independent prototypes > implemented. > b) I have not heard any concrete technical concerns. Stewart and I did > specificallly > discuss MRT this past IETF. I am, of course, quite interested in > hearing any > concrete technical concerns. > > c) I'd be happy seeing this question asked of more drafts :-) > > Regards, > Alia > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Loa Andersson > wrote: > > Working Groups, > > We have don an MPLS-RT of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt, the reviews has been > posted to the mpls wg mailing list. > > In his MPLS-RT review Stewart Bryant says: > > "I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the maturity > expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be > taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining > the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published > ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting." > > He also says that he see no reason not to go ahead and start the poll to > see if we have consensus to adopt the document as an mpls wg document. > > The question Stewart ask is valid, and we'd like input from the rtgwg > and rtgwg chairs (copied on this mail). We will also copy both the > poll for adoption and the wglc to the rtgwg mailing list. > > /Loa > mpls wg co-chair > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > _________________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/rtgwg > > > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Fri Nov 21 01:23:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34EE91A8BC4; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:23:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l0MgLTS287GV; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEDAE1A00AA; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 75B7522CE19; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:22:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.30]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 3488D35C04E; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:22:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([169.254.4.17]) by OPEXCLILH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([10.114.31.30]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:22:55 +0100 From: To: Alia Atlas , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: maturity of the MRT technology Thread-Index: AQHQA4z2TzkoMzE/P0+lCQyly6OseJxpxJiAgAEK0BA= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:22:54 +0000 Message-ID: <3682_1416561775_546F046F_3682_717_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0OPEXCLILM34corpor_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.11.5.145424 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/35NasARHH7WaRcXz3RouFlBVtZ8 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:23:22 -0000 --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0OPEXCLILM34corpor_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KzENCg0KQXMgZm9yIGFsbCBGUlIgdGVjaG5vbG9naWVzLCBNUlQgaGFzIHByb3MgYW5kIGNvbnMs IGFuZCB0aGlzIGRvZXMgbm90IGluZmx1ZW5jZSB0aGUgbWF0dXJpdHkgb2YgdGhlIHRlY2huaWNh bCBzb2x1dGlvbnMuIFdlIGFscmVhZHkgaGFkIG11bHRpcGxlIGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIG9ubGluZSBh bmQgb2ZmbGluZSBvbiB0ZWNobmljYWwgZGV0YWlscyBsZWFkaW5nIG5vdyB0byBkb2N1bWVudHMg dGhhdCBhcmUgcXVpdGUgZGV0YWlsZWQgYW5kIHdlbGwgdW5kZXJzdG9vZCB0ZWNobm9sb2d5ICh3 aXRoIHByb3MgYW5kIGNvbnMgYXMgSSBtZW50aW9uZWQpLiBJ4oCZbSBub3QgYSBncmVhdCBzdXBw 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lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLW64440; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:27:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.39) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:27:30 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.32]) by SZXEMA407-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 18:27:23 +0800 From: "Wunan (Eric)" To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" , "Alia Atlas" , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: maturity of the MRT technology Thread-Index: AQHQBWzlfCpgX5OkeUm2vfzaLQyixJxq3iZA Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:27:22 +0000 Message-ID: <0F26584357FD124DB93F1535E4B0A650372A55ED@szxema508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> <3682_1416561775_546F046F_3682_717_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 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required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F9LU_ObF2GkD; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 03:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1693E1AD3FC; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 03:50:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11170; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416570602; x=1417780202; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=/xhvbmFTsOOULS+hGdl+GCLXs2twJU0zveiy09o6n+M=; b=drvUPoA2O7OiCc7MOmCVUhEo6ev5Ga33V92cd+atl32D4q76E1vqeKn9 66x19wbWY4ghCYt6Ubi0mvG/wihOHd/aJC9Ef1Xq0e/yq9ML1AphmAHuP w0DPvfdAsY/sNrGfrw5sf+Z8IYo8eBRfW5uVKg2wfxB6U1vhL6DQU+j7g c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,429,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="241224190" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Nov 2014 11:49:59 +0000 Received: from [64.103.108.104] (dhcp-bdlk10-data-vlan301-64-103-108-104.cisco.com [64.103.108.104]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sALBnx18026722; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:49:59 GMT Message-ID: <546F26E6.5080803@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:49:58 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alia Atlas , Loa Andersson References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080303080702030808080804" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/7R_xUEviIvENS91ZdgbsQlLf8Bg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org, "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:50:12 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080303080702030808080804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My comment to Loa precedes a discussion with Alia at IETF and to be fair I do not know of any technical issue with the MRT design. Unlike LF and RLFA which are "local" to the point of repair, the scope of MRT is domain wide, in other words MRT is introducing a new partially ships in the night routing protocol. In my view, a domain wide system has a higher barrier to entry than a local repair system. I have a concern that Loa's statement (a) only tells part of the story. Whilst I understand there are two independent prototypes, I understand that they are not two interworking prototypes since they are based on different link state protocols. However I understand (and it would be good to have this verified) that if they are given the same topology they produce the same FIB. To my mind this ranks it at "one and a half" independent prototypes. At the end of the day the utility of MRT depends on who is interested in deploying it, and as far as I know, none of the domain wide IPFRR solutions have made it into production networks. If there are operators prepared to deploy MRT in their production networks then obviously it is headed for the standards track. If it is destined to join the ranks of the many "possible" domain wide solutions, then it is clearly still at the informational/ experimental stage of its life. Stewart On 20/11/2014 18:17, Alia Atlas wrote: > Loa, > > Without any hats on, I would note: > > a) As far as I'm aware, this has seen two independent prototypes > implemented. > b) I have not heard any concrete technical concerns. Stewart and I did > specificallly > discuss MRT this past IETF. I am, of course, quite interested in > hearing any > concrete technical concerns. > > c) I'd be happy seeing this question asked of more drafts :-) > > Regards, > Alia > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Loa Andersson > wrote: > > Working Groups, > > We have don an MPLS-RT of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt, the reviews > has been > posted to the mpls wg mailing list. > > In his MPLS-RT review Stewart Bryant says: > > "I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the maturity > expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be > taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining > the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published > ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is > supporting." > > He also says that he see no reason not to go ahead and start the > poll to > see if we have consensus to adopt the document as an mpls wg document. > > The question Stewart ask is valid, and we'd like input from the rtgwg > and rtgwg chairs (copied on this mail). We will also copy both the > poll for adoption and the wglc to the rtgwg mailing list. > > /Loa > mpls wg co-chair > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --------------080303080702030808080804 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    My comment to Loa precedes a discussion with Alia at IETF
    and to be fair I do not know of any technical issue with the MRT
    design.

    Unlike LF and RLFA which are "local" to the point of repair, the
    scope of MRT is domain wide, in other words MRT is introducing
    a new partially ships in the night routing protocol. In my view, a
    domain wide system has a higher barrier to entry than a local
    repair system.

    I have a concern that Loa's statement (a) only tells part of the
    story. Whilst I understand there are two independent prototypes,
    I understand that they are not two interworking prototypes since
    they are based on different link state protocols. However I
    understand (and it would be good to have this verified) that if
    they are given the same topology they produce the same FIB.
    To my mind this ranks it at "one and a half" independent
    prototypes.

    At the end of the day the utility of MRT depends on who is
    interested in deploying it, and as far as I know, none of the
    domain wide IPFRR solutions have made it into production networks.
    If there are operators prepared to deploy MRT  in their production
    networks then obviously it is headed for the standards track.
    If it is destined to join the  ranks of the many "possible" domain
    wide solutions, then it is clearly still at the informational/
    experimental stage of its life.

    Stewart



    On 20/11/2014 18:17, Alia Atlas wrote:
    Loa,

    Without any hats on, I would note:

    a) As far as I'm aware, this has seen two independent prototypes implemented.
    b) I have not heard any concrete technical concerns.  Stewart and I did specificallly
    discuss MRT this past IETF.  I am, of course, quite interested in hearing any
    concrete technical concerns.

    c) I'd be happy seeing this question asked of more drafts :-)

    Regards,
    Alia


    On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
    Working Groups,

    We have don an MPLS-RT of draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt, the reviews has been
    posted to the mpls wg mailing list.

    In his MPLS-RT review Stewart Bryant says:

    "I have concerns about whether or not MRT technology has the  maturity
     expected in the standards track. However that decision needs to be
     taken in RTGWG and MPLS needs to follow their and lead in determining
     the fate and track of this draft. This draft should not be published
     ahead of the drafts that define the technology that it is supporting."

    He also says that he see no reason not to go ahead and start the poll to
    see if we have consensus to adopt the document as an mpls wg document.

    The question Stewart ask is valid, and we'd like input from the rtgwg
    and rtgwg chairs (copied on this mail). We will also copy both the
    poll for adoption and the wglc to the rtgwg mailing list.

    /Loa
    mpls wg co-chair
    --


    Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
    Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
    Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

    _______________________________________________
    rtgwg mailing list
    rtgwg@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg



    _______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg



    -- 
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
    --------------080303080702030808080804-- From nobody Fri Nov 21 08:58:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F1E1AD565 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:58:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9-HW3iW0IRNN for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC8271AD562 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:58:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sALGwN2K030194; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:58:23 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sALGwMRp030183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:58:23 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:58:21 -0000 Message-ID: <03bf01d005ac$5b92b740$12b825c0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdAFrDE7j0ua226OSUKr0gG/1k3Nxg== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21120.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--0.947-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--0.947-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: fobVLM5oznVMDE2u/3abFVu4M/xm4KZe0nXvwjW2mSVkgx6+gdAsQ6DW HqKYVg1uRWgeIxtRuz/6hiO428IsoHn1cFcYgczd5gCHftmwEMJ9LQinZ4QefL6qvLNjDYTwfyj BJDnutUhQSFbL1bvQASdET58jp62SAQ6VaMEv6HWtzyeE9dyEMiy/QDmko7JO+RPJ2o35+1pMvy ljCJMKS9ENJ70id2bM36UK9N0zR5yhkKFMoxu5I9POcyg4N/5y6Hq9RCTLxvsstHmcXeW1eBVSG W4LjW40FYnPSoXfG8ckhYHVA/r8kw== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/s0G_8gvjeln1kbIPxqXe1DAjO2s Cc: stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Subject: [mpls] Dataplane implications of MPLS encryption X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:58:32 -0000 Hi, I would appreciate thoughts form those of you that work in the dataplane. What are the consequences of our proposals in http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrelll-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt/ for the dataplane? Questions include: - whether we could encrypt and decrypt using existing hardware and at line speed - whether inserting two labels and a control word would be practical (this happens at LSP ingress where other labels are also added) - whether stripping labels and moving on to the real LSP work at the egress is practical Ultimately, the consideration is whether the benefit of this approach justifies the cost. Thanks, Adrian From nobody Fri Nov 21 11:36:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B931A1AD9; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:36:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ns7-ec2qL5xX; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 044B41A1A6C; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:36:47 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79206d0000014d2-4f-546f3b18bfeb Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2E.45.05330.81B3F645; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:16:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:36:42 -0500 From: Uma Chunduri To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" , "Alia Atlas" , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: maturity of the MRT technology Thread-Index: AQHQA4z1PNuAPA+Nnk6RopB29XnlN5xqKS2AgAD9AACAAFZlEA== Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:36:41 +0000 Message-ID: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F44A97E@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> <3682_1416561775_546F046F_3682_717_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <3682_1416561775_546F046F_3682_717_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F44A97Eeusaamb105erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuK6kdX6IwbH3IhafHl5itnh2fhmj xb+5c5gtvl9awmJxa+lKVosLb34zW3zd+5DVgd1j56y77B5Llvxk8mh5dpLNY9b0NjaPL5c/ swWwRnHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlNP77xVjQ9o+xYteDbYwNjBu+M3YxcnJICJhIrP7xjhnCFpO4 cG89WxcjF4eQwBFGiXPrb7NAOMsZJaYf3swCUsUmoCfxcepPdpCEiEATo8SOnreMIA6zwC1G iS+T5oHNFRbQljh4cR8riC0ioCNx4e48dgjbSeLG2e1sIDaLgKpEw+2ZYDavgK/EqpOfoHY/ ZZR43fYZbDenQAujxL+X28GmMgJd+P3UGiYQm1lAXOLWk/lMEJcLSCzZcx7qC1GJl4//sULY ihL7+qezQ9TnS6xb948RYpugxMmZT1gmMIrOQjJqFpKyWUjKZjFyAMU1Jdbv0ocoUZSY0v2Q HcLWkGidM5cdWXwBI/sqRo7S4tSy3HQjg02MwIg9JsGmu4Nxz0vLQ4wCHIxKPLwFRXkhQqyJ ZcWVuYcYpTlYlMR5Z9XOCxYSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYovKs1JLT7EyMTBKdXAGMPmNDH3/GbdM0Xv ZLLuf736atuBVe/CWVvvdnnKMX0RLPm9u0C4d/XjGsmFfZ/Zn8+okLrWvtU70zfDf5bUiynT +r9eKrda61p0KbbamDnQx/SyguwGNj0pFXEN5x/ddnv33j9+fK+6npON67P3zJMS2aZey7tj xH9u4wbra9ycs7xYD2x3UWIpzkg01GIuKk4EAOeqPbe5AgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/-Ced4nSv46y_VpFOXe-eE1ZC2PA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:36:57 -0000 --_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F44A97Eeusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PknigJltIG5vdCBhIGdyZWF0IHN1cHBvcnRlciBvZiBNUlQgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gaW4gbXkg 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Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75591A8990 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:45:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sYBcUuguUbtB for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0707.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:707]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF06A1A898C for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:44:31 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:44:31 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgAWv9EAAFfQDKA= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:44:31 +0000 Message-ID: <6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: 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received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rbonica@juniper.net; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/LrRvMULgfDYlL9RWwRbk9TyCbdk Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:45:07 -0000 --_000_6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sam, Response inline...... From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM To: Ronald Bonica Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from = the mike Hi Ron, Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of quest= ions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with dest= ination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct? [RPB] Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*, with destination IP = address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR. 2. Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or someth= ing else too? [RPB] The egress LSR doesn't need to identify the ingress LSR. It just forw= ards an IP packet based upon IP destination. The Ingress LSR identifies the= Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender Handle in = the message with an LSP Ping Session ID. 3. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo req= uest ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? [RPB] The transit LSR forwards the Echo Reply back to the ingress. The ingr= ess declares the LSP to be ready to carry traffic, even though it is broken= . That's why my original message says, "Self Ping is designed to verify LSP= readiness without consuming control plane resources on the egress router. = It is not designed to diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagn= ose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource i= ntensive." I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? [RPB] The draft says that it avoids control plane processing on the egress = router. The egress router never looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwa= rds based upon IP destination. The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress wil= l have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to= ingress. [RPB] Yes. This happens on the forwarding plane. Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destinatio= n, the ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly as it would forward any other packet." Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looki= ng up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control= plane of OAM process? 4. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the ingres= s then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back at Ingress= , correct? [RPB] Exactly the opposite! If the Echo reply is received at the ingress, t= hat is success 5. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? [RPB] The procedures described in Section 3.2.1 of draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-ls= p-ping consume control plane resources on the egress LSR. ROn Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your responses. cheers -sam On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: Folks At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping: 1) Why not use BFD? 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format? Responses follow: 1) Why not use BFD? Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR. By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive. 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]= . However, they are more resource intensive. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RES= V message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the LSP only after the L= SP Self Ping session terminates successfully 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format? LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long. I will update the draft to reflect this information. Ron Bonica _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Sam,

     

    Response inline……

     

    From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf= @gmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM
    To: Ronald Bonica
    Cc: mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comment= s from the mike

     

    Hi Ron,

     

    Still trying to understand the need for the draft, h= ence, have few of questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your respon= se in advance.

     

    1.      (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo re= quest, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec= 2), correct?

    [RPB]  Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*,= with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR.

     

    2.        Is this the only thing which identifies= the Ingress LSR or something else too?

    [RPB] The egress LSR doesn̵= 7;t need to identify the ingress LSR. It just forwards an IP packet based u= pon IP destination. The Ingress LSR identifies the Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender Handle in the m= essage with an LSP Ping Session ID.

     

    3.      What happens if there is LSP breakage or something = and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process?

    [RPB] The transit LSR forwards = the Echo Reply back to the ingress. The ingress declares the LSP to be read= y to carry traffic, even though it is broken. That’s why my original message says, “Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane r= esources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programming e= rrors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards th= e packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte= nsive.”

     

    I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane= processing. How so?

    [RPB] The draft says that it av= oids control plane processing on the egress router. The egress router never= looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwards based upon IP destination.

     

    The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, whic= h means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip add= ress to send it back to ingress.

    [RPB] Yes. This happens on the = forwarding plane.

     

    Draft says "Th= e egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destination, the<= o:p>

       ingress LSR.  The egres=
s LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
       as it would forward any othe=
r packet."
     
    Could you explain, how egress forwards th=
e packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the da=
ta plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?
     

    

    
4.     
Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received ba=
ck at the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request=
 back at Ingress, correct?<=
/p>

    [RPB] Exactly the opposite! If =
the Echo reply is received at the ingress, that is success
    

     
    

    

    

    
5.     
Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress=
?
    

    [RPB] The procedures=
 described in Section 3.2.1 of d=
raft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping consume control plane resources on the egress=
 LSR.
    

     
    

      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;    ROn
    

     
    

    

    

     
    

    

    

    Will followup with additional questions, if any, bas=
ed on your responses.
    

    

    

     
    

    

    

    cheers
    

    

    

    -sam
    

    

    

     
    

    

    

    

    On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
    

    

     
    

    

    Folks
    

    
At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp=
ls-self-ping:
    

    
1) Why not use BFD?
    
2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other=
 than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    
3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff=
ic in both directions?
    
4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p=
ackets or some other packet format?
    

    
Responses follow:
    

    
1) Why not use BFD?
    

    
Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio=
n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia=
tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the=
 egress LSR.

    

    
By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l=
onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme=
nts where BFD is too resource intensive.
    

    
2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha=
n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    

    
Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla=
ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi=
ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward=
s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose
 such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte=
nsive.
    

    
3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff=
ic in both directions?
    

    
In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S=
elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS=
P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at=
 the other end of the LSP initiates
 a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwar=
ds traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates suc=
cessfully
    

    
4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p=
acket format?
    

    
LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen=
t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could=
 be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle=
 is 64-bits long.

    

    
I will update the draft to reflect this information.
    

    
Ron Bonica
    

    
_______________________________________________
    
mpls mailing list
    
mpls@ietf.org
    
https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/mpls
    

    

    

    

     
    --_000_6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_-- From nobody Fri Nov 21 13:47:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC031A8A16 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:47:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IGUYVDCReB2X for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:47:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0142.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14F731A89AB for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB441.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:46:45 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:46:45 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgAWv9EAAABloAAAWDPMkA== Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:46:45 +0000 Message-ID: <8ac0c973268b4d84abc116a858fb7dc1@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <3964B0F6-A978-424E-97EB-75DE61DAC62B@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3964B0F6-A978-424E-97EB-75DE61DAC62B@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; x-forefront-prvs: 0402872DA1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(199003)(189002)(24454002)(37854004)(377454003)(19609705001)(101416001)(19625215002)(87936001)(15202345003)(110136001)(15975445006)(97736003)(19580395003)(92566001)(21056001)(86362001)(2656002)(19300405004)(66066001)(20776003)(16236675004)(46102003)(230783001)(108616004)(120916001)(4396001)(105586002)(54356999)(76576001)(99286002)(107046002)(95666004)(77156002)(76176999)(40100003)(19580405001)(33646002)(74316001)(64706001)(50986999)(31966008)(77096003)(19617315012)(122556002)(106356001)(99396003)(62966003)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; H:CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8ac0c973268b4d84abc116a858fb7dc1CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/KNmLnQvNYEZamJH5nUnlqbCisfA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:47:15 -0000 --_000_8ac0c973268b4d84abc116a858fb7dc1CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sam, Exactly! LSP Ping and LSP Self-ping, are different protocols from one anoth= er. LSP Self-Ping is not an extension to LSP Ping. Although the two protoco= ls share a common message format, they listen for input on different UDP po= rts. LSP Ping executes one set of procedures in response to input, while LS= P Self-ping executes an entirely different set of procedures. = Ron From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:39 PM To: Ronald Bonica Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from = the mike BTW, the draft also proposes the IP destination as routable address and not= local host address. This is re-defining the semantics defined in RFC4379. Secondly, as mentioned earlier, when there is LSP failure, the packet will = be routed to destination address, as Echo request. which in this case is in= gress LSR. -sam On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Sam Aldrin > wrote: Hi Ron, Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of quest= ions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with destinati= on IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct? Is thi= s the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or something else too? 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo request = ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft says, this wil= l avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from ingr= ess to egress, which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e.= look up the ip address to send it back to ingress. Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destinatio= n, the ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly as it would forward any other packet." Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looki= ng up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control= plane of OAM process? 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the ingress the= n it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back at Ingress, cor= rect? 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your responses. cheers -sam On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: Folks At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping: 1) Why not use BFD? 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format? Responses follow: 1) Why not use BFD? Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR. By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive. 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]= . However, they are more resource intensive. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RES= V message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the LSP only after the L= SP Self Ping session terminates successfully 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format? LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long. I will update the draft to reflect this information. Ron Bonica _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_8ac0c973268b4d84abc116a858fb7dc1CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Sam,

     

    Exactly! LSP Ping and LSP Self-ping, = are different protocols from one another. LSP Self-Ping is not an extension= to LSP Ping. Although the two protocols share a common message format, they listen for input on different UDP ports. LSP= Ping executes one set of procedures in response to input, while LSP Self-p= ing executes an entirely different set of procedures.

     

          &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          Ron

     

     

    From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf= @gmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:39 PM
    To: Ronald Bonica
    Cc: mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comment= s from the mike

     

    BTW, the draft also proposes the IP destination as r= outable address and not local host address.

    This is re-defining the semantics defined in RFC4379= .

    Secondly, as mentioned earlier, when there is LSP fa= ilure, the packet will be routed to destination address, as Echo request. w= hich in this case is ingress LSR.

     

    -sam

    On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:=

     

    Hi Ron,

     

    Still trying to understand the need for the draft, h= ence, have few of questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your respon= se in advance.

     

    1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo = request, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (s= ec 2), correct?  Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress L= SR or something else too?

    2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or somethin= g and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see th= at draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet= is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the i= p address to send it back to ingress.

     

    Draft says "Th= e egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destination, the<= o:p>

       ingress LSR.  The egres=
s LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
       as it would forward any othe=
r packet."
     
    Could you explain, how egress forwards th=
e packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the da=
ta plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?

    3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received = back at the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Reque= st back at Ingress, correct?

    4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egre= ss?

     

    Will followup with additional questions, if any, bas= ed on your responses.

     

    cheers

    -sam

     

    On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

     

    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR.

    By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive.

    2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

    Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte= nsive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwar= ds traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates suc= cessfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long.

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/mpls

     

     

    --_000_8ac0c973268b4d84abc116a858fb7dc1CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_-- From nobody Fri Nov 21 14:07:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087081A8A9F for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:07:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gOXDUS9JTotz for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0772.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::772]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD9B21A8A91 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:06:49 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.170]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:06:49 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgAWv9EAABeO84AAQSiBYA== Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:06:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB442; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB442; x-forefront-prvs: 0402872DA1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:07:28 -0000 --_000_e733a5beda3349d0b94e7e1ce9e8900dCO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VG9tLA0KDQpZb3UgbWFrZSBhIHZhbGlkIG9ic2VydmF0aW9uLiBMU1AgU2VsZiBQaW5nIGlzIGFr aW4gdG8gR1JFIGtlZXAtYWxpdmUuIEFuIGluZ3Jlc3MgZGV2aWNlIHNlbmRzIGEgbWVzc2FnZSB0 byBpdHNlbGYgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgdHVubmVsIHVuZGVyIHRlc3QuIFRoZSBlZ3Jlc3MgZGV2aWNl IHNpbXBseSBmb3J3YXJkcyB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZSBiYWNrIHRvIHRoZSBpbmdyZXNzLCBiYXNlZCB1 cG9uIGl0cyBJUCBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbi4gVGhlIGVncmVzcyBkZXZpY2UgbmV2ZXIgZXZlbiBsb29r cyBiZXlvbmQgdGhlIElQIGhlYWRlci4NCg0KVGhlIGluZ3Jlc3MgZGV2aWNlIGNvbnN1bWVzIHRo ZSBtZXNzYWdlIHRoYXQgaXQgcHJvZHVjZWQuIEJlY2F1c2UgdGhlIGluZ3Jlc3MgaXMgYm90aCBw 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RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2NnGho1NjFtp for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E19A1A1BD7 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.138] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46937295C5AF; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:17:04 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E22D1BE0-80A9-4994-9325-D5762F358E58" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:17:03 -0500 Message-Id: <1B7B662D-1566-4EA3-A694-3F33688F81A8@lucidvision.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> To: Ronald Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/pqZ_47A3dqIFFAGV6eKuzycRbdc Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:17:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E22D1BE0-80A9-4994-9325-D5762F358E58 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 21, 2014:5:06 PM, at 5:06 PM, Ronald Bonica = wrote: >=20 > Tom, > =20 > You make a valid observation. LSP Self Ping is akin to GRE keep-alive. = An ingress device sends a message to itself through the tunnel under = test. The egress device simply forwards the message back to the ingress, = based upon its IP destination. The egress device never even looks beyond = the IP header. > =20 > The ingress device consumes the message that it produced. Because the = ingress is both producer and consumer of the message, there are no = interoperability requirements. Each ingress device could use a different = message format, so long as the message contains enough information to = associate it with an LSP Self-ping session. > =20 > Because there are no interoperability requirements between the ingress = and egress, it not necessary to publish a document on the standards = track. > =20 > However, LSP Self-ping procedures entirely local to the ingress = router. The ingress router sends messages off the box that might be = detected by counters, firewalls, intrusion detection devices, etc. = Therefore, it is appropriate to publish an INFORMATION RFC explaining = what this extra OAM traffic is. I agree, Informational is cool. =E2=80=94Tom > =20 > = Ron > =20 > =20 > From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com = ]=20 > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:43 AM > To: Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > =20 > To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a = description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic = procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done for quite some time = using other means such as onboard automated scripts/actions after paths = are established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because I built = such a thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely. Also, as = Sam says, there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is = worth the additional complication (and required implementation + = associated delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means.=20 > =20 > The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves = whether or not this something we really need to standardize. > =20 > =E2=80=94Tom > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin = > wrote: > =20 > Hi Ron, > =20 > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. > =20 > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo = request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft = says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is = forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to = process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress. > =20 > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > as it would forward any other packet." > =20 > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the = ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back = at Ingress, correct? > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? > =20 > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. > =20 > cheers > -sam > =20 > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: > =20 > Folks >=20 > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >=20 > Responses follow: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? >=20 > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >=20 > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >=20 > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >=20 > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >=20 > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >=20 > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >=20 > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >=20 > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >=20 > I will update the draft to reflect this information. >=20 > Ron Bonica >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = --Apple-Mail=_E22D1BE0-80A9-4994-9325-D5762F358E58 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    On Nov 21, 2014:5:06 PM, at 5:06 PM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>= wrote:

    Tom,
     
    You make a valid observation. LSP Self = Ping is akin to GRE keep-alive. An ingress device sends a message to = itself through the tunnel under test. The egress device simply forwards = the message back to the ingress, based upon its IP destination. The = egress device never even looks beyond the IP header.
     
    The ingress device = consumes the message that it produced. Because the ingress is both = producer and consumer of the message, there are no interoperability = requirements. Each ingress device could use a different message format, = so long as the message contains enough information to associate it with = an LSP Self-ping session.
     
    Because there are no interoperability = requirements between the ingress and egress, it not necessary to publish = a document on the standards track.
     
    However, LSP Self-ping procedures entirely = local to the ingress router. The ingress router sends messages off the = box that might be detected by counters, firewalls, intrusion detection = devices, etc. Therefore, it is appropriate to publish an INFORMATION RFC = explaining what this extra OAM traffic = is.

    I agree, = Informational is cool.

    = =E2=80=94Tom


     
              &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp;        =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =           Ron
     
     
    From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com] 
    Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 9:43 AM
    To: Sam Aldrin
    Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
     
            &= nbsp; 
            &= nbsp; To me = what is described in the draft seems like this is a description of a = device/vendor feature that automates the basic procedures of 4379/etc.. = This can and has been done for quite some time using other means such as = onboard automated scripts/actions after paths are established/signaled. = I say this not to be glib, but because I built such a thing about 10 = years ago that has been deployed widely.  Also, as Sam says, there = is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is worth the = additional complication (and required implementation + associated = delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means. 
     
            &= nbsp; The = bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves whether or not this = something we really need to standardize.
     
            &= nbsp; =E2=80=94To= m
     
     
     
    On = Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> = wrote:
     
    Hi Ron,
     
    Still trying to understand the need for = the draft, hence, have few of questions and need clarifications. = Appreciate your response in advance.
     
    1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo = request, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR = (sec 2), correct?  Is this the only thing which identifies the = Ingress LSR or something else too?
    2. What happens if = there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo request ends up on = transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft says, this will avoid = control plane processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from ingress = to egress, which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. = look up the ip address to send it back to ingress.
     
    Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the
       ingress =
LSR.  The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
       as it would forward any other packet."
     
    Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet =
back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data =
plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?
    3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at = the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request = back at Ingress, correct?
    4. Why can't you use = LSP proxy ping to self via Egress?
     
    Will followup with additional questions, if any, = based on your responses.
     
    cheers
    -sam
     
    On Nov 19, 2014, at = 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
     
    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following = points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping = does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other than the = egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How = does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traffic = in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS = Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet = format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is = an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping session emits = one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initiation. = Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the = egress LSR. 

    By contrast, BFD is designed to verify = bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of time. Therefore, = MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environments where BFD is too resource = intensive.

    2) Self-ping does not diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet.

    Self Ping is = designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane = resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional = LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP = instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The = LSR at one end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives = a RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self = Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards = traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use = MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other packet format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet = formats. The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which = the 64 bit session identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was = convenient because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long. 

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
     
    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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ONWVEXCHHT03.ciena.com ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:28:26 -0500 From: "Shah, Himanshu" To: Ronald Bonica , "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" , Sam Aldrin , Shahram Davari Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 19:28:25 -0500 Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgAWv9EAABeO84AAAd+rAAAHBYeAAACjnYAAAXHZgAAHNAUAAAF0YYAALnL+UAAEpJ+Q Message-ID: <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F620837@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-CA Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-CA x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.0.0.1412-7.000.1014-21120.003 x-tm-as-result: No--52.690900-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F620837ONWVEXCHMB04cie_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.28, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-11-22_01:2014-11-21,2014-11-21,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1411220003 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/BSCjD551wYsT-uRUXG1k4IjL-4w Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gpDRWp484ba5; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645D91AC425; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:16:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141122151626.4362.24668.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:16:26 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ortkEzjtdZYWARGAzOVWF8qzbz8 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:16:28 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : Label Switched Path (LSP) and Pseudowire (PW) Ping/Trace over MPLS Network using Entropy Labels (EL) Authors : Nobo Akiya George Swallow Carlos Pignataro Andrew G. Malis Sam Aldrin Filename : draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2014-11-22 Abstract: The Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute are used to exercise specific paths of Equal-Cost Multipath (ECMP). When LSP is signaled to use Entropy Label (EL) described in RFC6790, the ability for LSP Ping and Traceroute operation to discover and exercise ECMP paths has been lost in scenarios which LSRs apply deviating load balance techniques. One such scenario is when some LSRs apply EL based load balancing while other LSRs apply non-EL based load balancing (ex: IP). Another scenario is when EL based LSP is stitched with another LSP which can be EL based or non-EL based. This document extends the MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute mechanisms to restore the ability of exercising specific paths of ECMP over LSP which make use of Entropy Label. This document updates RFC4379, RFC6424 and RFC6790. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Nov 22 07:17:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05141AC449; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:17:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ECRKsmmgfUnS; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5500E1AC434; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:16:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141122151656.29733.47805.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:16:56 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/kVQaJFwaKd1ysUYLusMRMdRwmE8 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:17:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath Support for Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces Authors : Nobo Akiya George Swallow Stephane Litkowski Bruno Decraene John E. Drake Filename : draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2014-11-22 Abstract: This document defines an extension to the Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute to describe Multipath Information for Link Aggregation (LAG) member links separately, thus allowing MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to discover and exercise specific paths of layer 2 (L2) Equal-Cost Multipath (ECMP) over LAG interfaces. This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Nov 22 07:24:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569131AC7E7 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:24:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -115.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-115.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZwQ_-WOBsdxu for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 068671AC44B for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:24:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2721; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416669886; x=1417879486; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=lovzoWm8oPd0Lnp/ZsiqSVovmz/K48Z6qWdRaFoQO/Q=; b=ciL9VuzdR0QfdwKObv9opj9NRfy8d25+OkZREkXRVKR+9MTth+SK2uJb c/f1tCK4AnSspkSL1/N+pZaSnkkebBj5BRLCUpRKISsFSBWl+C9vdUsHN qchxolp7LcrwH/lXGfNHC2gMTXHIMiQxjuQ7fqB5rx74OQAUTRIcysWGE I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAG6pcFStJA2M/2dsb2JhbABcgmsjVVQFBMwSDIZpAoECFgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBBAEBATcxAwsMBAIBCBEEAQELFAkHJwsUCQgCBA4FCAGIOAEHBc1lAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF5BaMQcGgymBHwWQN4IthGWIZT+DGpIGg314gUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,437,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="99128316" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Nov 2014 15:24:45 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAMFOjea025836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:24:45 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 09:24:44 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHQBmd32kWkOYX13EOzMKJ5egOY/5xswklA Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:24:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141122151656.29733.47805.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141122151656.29733.47805.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.112.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Mjz2Qx23o5wn7HXnh3fP7phG5g8 Cc: "draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:24:48 -0000 Dear MPLS WG, Authors of draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath believe that draft-akiya= -mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03 is ready to progress to become a WG documen= t, and will be asking will be asking the chairs to take the document throug= h the adoption process.=20 We are, always, looking for comments from experts to make the document into= better shape, and hoping for some. Thanks! -Nobo, on behalf of authors > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:17 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: mpls@ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03.tx= t >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working > Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath = Support for > Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces > Authors : Nobo Akiya > George Swallow > Stephane Litkowski > Bruno Decraene > John E. Drake > Filename : draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2014-11-22 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines an extension to the Multiprotocol Label > Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute to > describe Multipath Information for Link Aggregation (LAG) member > links separately, thus allowing MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to > discover and exercise specific paths of layer 2 (L2) Equal-Cost > Multipath (ECMP) over LAG interfaces. >=20 > This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-03 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipat= h- > 03 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Sat Nov 22 21:09:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430751A1AAE for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:09:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w7UlCXywyt7Z for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2EEF1A1AA9 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.131.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04062180006E; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:09:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:09:00 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/9Wxo2W2Mb9ouGdoa6IvQjMgz1J0 Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 05:09:16 -0000 Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the working group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs converged on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries set up. Since those registries would include code points defined in other documents we could not define the registries in the current document. We now have draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a working group document, and can now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-ping. Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not be adopted as a working group document. There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they are unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft than the two disclosed. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. This poll ends December 8, 2014. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Sat Nov 22 23:07:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310D91A1AEE; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 23:07:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4yafjjiuYc_m; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 23:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EE3A1A1AEA; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 23:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAN77dQg015680; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:07:39 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAN77cK4015666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:07:38 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Barry Leiba'" References: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:07:37 -0000 Message-ID: <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJTbQVFvXpqMxRLlvUwCRwsl33h0ptm+pjw Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21122.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--12.882-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--12.882-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: WMT2WRIkHPO31G6CKdUG1WOho7buv7d9GSqdEmeD/nVF+YXPIqAdvvbU hPv66jYYCFf9mAstC7MqUWENz2/knnfP3OQRnpC38jbzfqNu/QQrHkgIan9a0TdeVVUZfQ6RGJp b/R8vyp5NYvDaO9t+nFxBgG7mg/DlfPmUQQG69pwWGNJh59eVbGlOPrrbBmagDO+DX+rUwfYsdh 2ZEFy7YUNoVDYC2mKV9jjbGUN5dRScYwc8xKphVe9VsdrlGzy3QZXZg2I8Jab530JsOyx4RRjbR /XCsHXWdjapK/nxWKEDz12htF/DmEIFCJ5KkAbPVoDlQpf4TdUfXzVgO0hVqgBIK0IFAmzh3B2M KHXU15AgDYbsUFsqSXe6UyvCqwsh2krzNcCKFT5c/msUC5wFQRNzcbBs7azLfj4DHOYjBjiZ5zf GdH8k30zA3FGTDk+Xt60beBAogxAM8jMXjBF+sIMbH85DUZXyseWplitmp0j6C0ePs7A07R/88i /oAaos2nAZuKjSYWyq5xmK8A5BIWX0pLUwXE6XFK/XDSvv6PM= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/dRWayEFKDhGANaCgVn2V4aSQ_a4 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org, 'The IESG' Subject: Re: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:07:45 -0000 [Adding the MPLS WG] That's a pretty fine question, Barry. I'd say that, despite the care and work of the working group, it is = possible that another gap will be identified. However, I think that = might be a lowish possibility and that any new gaps might form a small = percentage of the total gaps analysed. So, my judgement is that this is a bridge to cross when we get there, = but others might comment. And, yes, we can take a pass on the references. A > -----Original Message----- > From: iesg [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba > Sent: 23 November 2014 06:49 > To: The IESG > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: = (with DISCUSS > and COMMENT) >=20 > Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: Discuss >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > This is a DISCUSS in the truest sense: I'd like to discuss a question > with the shepherd and/or AD, and I fully expect to resolve the = question > satisfactorily from that. >=20 > The first thing I wondered was why this shouldn't be something = maintained > in a place other than an RFC, and I found that covered well in the > shepherd writeup. Thanks for that! >=20 > What I continue to wonder is whether, in having that discussion, the > working group considered what the likelihood is of discovering more = gaps > as they (and other working groups) work on dealing with these. If so, = I > wonder what the working group's plan is for documenting those. >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I submit that a good number of the references really are normative, in > that understanding them is necessary in order to understand this > document. I'd like to see the authors sort that out, and make an > appropriate split in the references, so readers can know which ones = truly > do just add extra detail (informative), and which provide necessary > background (normative). That said, I don't consider that important > enough to this document to block on it, so this is a non-blocking > comment. Please consider doing this, but there is no need to respond = to > me about it. Thanks. From nobody Sun Nov 23 00:47:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481381A00AE; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 00:47:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S3HeYmzEBIJ6; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 00:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B50B81A00A8; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 00:47:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id A4CCF22C851; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:47:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.56]) by omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 790D22380BE; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:47:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([169.254.4.17]) by OPEXCLILH04.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([10.114.31.56]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:47:43 +0100 From: To: Uma Chunduri , Alia Atlas , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: maturity of the MRT technology Thread-Index: AQHQA4z2TzkoMzE/P0+lCQyly6OseJxpxJiAgAEK0BCAAJ2tgIACfiDQ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:47:42 +0000 Message-ID: <18727_1416732463_54719F2F_18727_12486_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92178256@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <546BDF65.2030203@pi.nu> <3682_1416561775_546F046F_3682_717_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92177BF0@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F44A97E@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F44A97E@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92178256OPEXCLILM34corpor_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.11.23.81819 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/_RBx-2tofoRjY9eLD12pLWt-gNk Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-atlas-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] maturity of the MRT technology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:47:52 -0000 --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92178256OPEXCLILM34corpor_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SEkgVW1hLA0KDQo+IElzIHRoaXMgYmVjYXVzZSBvZiBkb21haW4gd2lkZSBkZXBsb3ltZW50IHJl cXVpcmVtZW50cyBNUlQgYnJpbmdzLWluIChhcyBlbGFib3JhdGVkIGJ5IFN0ZXdhcnQ/KSBvciB5 b3UgYXJlIG9rIHdpdGggTEZBL3JMRkEgY292ZXJhZ2UgaW4gdGhlIG5ldHdvcms/DQoNCk5vLCBk b21haW4td2lkZSBkZXBsb3ltZW50IGlzIG5vdCBhbiBpc3N1ZS4gVGhlIGlzc3VlIEkgc2VlIGlu IE1SVCAoZm9yIG15IHVzZSBjYXNlKSBpcyB1bm9wdGltYWxpdHkgb2YgdGhlIEZSUiBwYXRoIChh dCBsZWFzdCB1c2luZyBsb3dwb2ludCBhbGdvcml0aG0pLiBCdXQgYW55d2F5LCBhcyBJIG1lbnRp b25lZCwgSeKAmW0gbm90IG9wcG9zZWQgdG8gbWFrZSBNUlQgcHJvZ3Jlc3NpbmcgYXQgYWxsLiBJ dOKAmXMgZ29vZCB0byBoYXZlIG11bHRpcGxlIHRvb2xzLg0KDQpCZXN0IFJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCg0K RnJvbTogVW1hIENodW5kdXJpIFttYWlsdG86dW1hLmNodW5kdXJpQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbV0NClNl 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Bryant (stbryant)" To: "" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQJTbQVFvXpqMxRLlvUwCRwsl33h0ptm+pjwgAAzHnE= Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: <809E61CD-6819-4431-999F-B0FC6A5DD204@cisco.com> References: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/i-KhkH-LqsKCse_ck1VhMGOY0Gg Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Barry Leiba , "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:57:27 -0000 Does that meet the discuss criteria? Stewart Sent from my iPad > On 23 Nov 2014, at 07:08, Adrian Farrel wrote: >=20 > [Adding the MPLS WG] >=20 > That's a pretty fine question, Barry. >=20 > I'd say that, despite the care and work of the working group, it is possi= ble that another gap will be identified. However, I think that might be a l= owish possibility and that any new gaps might form a small percentage of th= e total gaps analysed. >=20 > So, my judgement is that this is a bridge to cross when we get there, but= others might comment. >=20 > And, yes, we can take a pass on the references. >=20 > A >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iesg [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba >> Sent: 23 November 2014 06:49 >> To: The IESG >> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf= .org >> Subject: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (wit= h DISCUSS >> and COMMENT) >>=20 >> Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: Discuss >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> This is a DISCUSS in the truest sense: I'd like to discuss a question >> with the shepherd and/or AD, and I fully expect to resolve the question >> satisfactorily from that. >>=20 >> The first thing I wondered was why this shouldn't be something maintaine= d >> in a place other than an RFC, and I found that covered well in the >> shepherd writeup. Thanks for that! >>=20 >> What I continue to wonder is whether, in having that discussion, the >> working group considered what the likelihood is of discovering more gaps >> as they (and other working groups) work on dealing with these. If so, I >> wonder what the working group's plan is for documenting those. >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I submit that a good number of the references really are normative, in >> that understanding them is necessary in order to understand this >> document. I'd like to see the authors sort that out, and make an >> appropriate split in the references, so readers can know which ones trul= y >> do just add extra detail (informative), and which provide necessary >> background (normative). That said, I don't consider that important >> enough to this document to block on it, so this is a non-blocking >> comment. Please consider doing this, but there is no need to respond to >> me about it. Thanks. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Sun Nov 23 06:33:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5961C1A005A; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:32:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lzltg_--iZJO; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66DDF1A00B2; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.168.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80EFF1801565; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:32:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5471F00D.8010401@pi.nu> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:32:45 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Barry Leiba' References: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/RGJz4wmjBi_VZ7vEQmhndJYcjWs Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org, 'The IESG' Subject: Re: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:32:59 -0000 Barry, I don't know how much more I have to after Adrian's mail, it seems cover the issues. We never had the ambition to find every gap, but believed that that documenting for the future that we made the effort and also that the gaps we found would be a good enough idea. I differ from Adrian on one point, I think it is very likely that we'll find new gaps, however they will be few and with low impact. This begs the question how we'll maintain the management of the gaps and the recommendations around for each gap should be done. An idea that has been circualted it to use a wiki page, but so far there is no decision. But - as our ADs have said - with a wiki we don't really need a decision, just someone that takes on the task to do it. As for the references I agree that it is possible to take a pass on them, the thing with how (other than normative informative) one prefer to have references sort are very personal. /Loa On 2014-11-23 15:07, Adrian Farrel wrote: > [Adding the MPLS WG] > > That's a pretty fine question, Barry. > > I'd say that, despite the care and work of the working group, it is possible that another gap will be identified. However, I think that might be a lowish possibility and that any new gaps might form a small percentage of the total gaps analysed. > > So, my judgement is that this is a bridge to cross when we get there, but others might comment. > > And, yes, we can take a pass on the references. > > A > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iesg [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba >> Sent: 23 November 2014 06:49 >> To: The IESG >> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org >> Subject: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS >> and COMMENT) >> >> Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: Discuss >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This is a DISCUSS in the truest sense: I'd like to discuss a question >> with the shepherd and/or AD, and I fully expect to resolve the question >> satisfactorily from that. >> >> The first thing I wondered was why this shouldn't be something maintained >> in a place other than an RFC, and I found that covered well in the >> shepherd writeup. Thanks for that! >> >> What I continue to wonder is whether, in having that discussion, the >> working group considered what the likelihood is of discovering more gaps >> as they (and other working groups) work on dealing with these. If so, I >> wonder what the working group's plan is for documenting those. >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I submit that a good number of the references really are normative, in >> that understanding them is necessary in order to understand this >> document. I'd like to see the authors sort that out, and make an >> appropriate split in the references, so readers can know which ones truly >> do just add extra detail (informative), and which provide necessary >> background (normative). That said, I don't consider that important >> enough to this document to block on it, so this is a non-blocking >> comment. Please consider doing this, but there is no need to respond to >> me about it. Thanks. > > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Sun Nov 23 07:02:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909411A014F; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:02:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cf4xzinqwEEI; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-host.seacom.mu (ge-1.ln-01-jnb.za.seacomnet.com [105.28.96.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC5B71A0146; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=the-host.localnet) by the-host.seacom.mu with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XsYg6-0005i2-F2; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:02:18 +0200 From: Mark Tinka Organization: SEACOM To: mpls@ietf.org Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:02:14 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.6 (Linux/2.6.37.6-24-desktop; KDE/4.6.0; i686; ; ) References: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> <5471F00D.8010401@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5471F00D.8010401@pi.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3788065.yCvQbXh2GK"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201411231702.18031.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/bsLbQyC3MDDfj6fA2mMwO1LyB5Q Cc: 'The IESG' , mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, 'Barry Leiba' , draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: mark.tinka@seacom.mu List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:02:40 -0000 --nextPart3788065.yCvQbXh2GK Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, November 23, 2014 04:32:45 PM Loa Andersson=20 wrote: > This begs the question how we'll maintain the management > of the gaps and the recommendations around for each gap > should be done. An idea that has been circualted it to > use a wiki page, but so far there is no decision. But - > as our ADs have said - with a wiki we don't really need > a decision, just someone that takes on the task to do > it. I would support a wiki, as that can be edited by the group=20 at anytime, and anything in the wiki that makes sense to add=20 into an IETF draft or RFC can help ensure the drafts/RFC's=20 have the most pertinent information, and don't end up=20 getting unnecessarily bloated. Mark. --nextPart3788065.yCvQbXh2GK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAABAgAGBQJUcfb5AAoJEGcZuYTeKm+GlikP/Aq6iCtFS6lcwoa0CDsMFoez CUfur36hxvYsRaza9a4BOE8FqLa4d9sfsyPS71tYq1hiyjUOgJr0Rsrv4W05w2SG APLZ/ioq024VFl8U1EqdQ+ycUTipIM1lfT/6LYsixwCbvrQyNDmaSGn/ogHVFs3C c8AqTdQBC5HKDUrNJfKi7tkD7tFHrVV8yAvTSkQZ+f9kFHTYfXAhHww5tk5iXhMJ wIsB8K6kXcxe91Ky8gk6H1P4x+FjTEsiXt2CGaFGDn1VcIVZMmZuuMKwDwSY51l9 E2ZM8kzN5E1DM1i/QWJMLzGMzL10oDZC/7PXLL4vOqcuyfETwpzUUV5JqhbI+j9u wj6Cad2GFpcb4GHTv+8jDz7ztFgO4NW85pLszTdRXWERG1yI2W4sTcpO78fwlkwG 9Ni5CsFVwrTha9o1FbMDPwQND9xXefkDF54YTMRR1BNLhVnydXzyFe5EddyHCXfq E02YZosjiFVwPiVOBT46JnhXqOHHg0gwp0dEJAjEATI7BVP/9Gq/AqN1v7unB+OB sHEGf0gXgHtmO9uAfAkCKLN40nUqEnhkY69F5zRBTRAILT4kjCXNHJHJJpPHPfbR SYgeAsYYBnmt+fiusolDtbnBK6J5rhSflvIPPZ1NjkUZcQRjoB37ZnXtYlA1kOSu BDkHiyMXyfwwNvT0Csyt =cu1f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3788065.yCvQbXh2GK-- From nobody Sun Nov 23 13:29:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66F91A1B1B for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:29:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpKFSp6ClATY for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0708.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:708]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96F5A1A1AAA for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1430.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.160.107.152) by BY1PR0501MB1431.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.160.107.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 21:28:25 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1430.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.107.152]) by BY1PR0501MB1430.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.107.152]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 21:28:25 +0000 From: Ross Callon To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Repeated WG last call on draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp Thread-Index: AdADfizmaLLWumJtQOCK1HaJAtF5tAD3Q2eQ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 21:28:25 +0000 Message-ID: <92cfc78ef38f4e9aa6d8345353afe746@BY1PR0501MB1430.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1431; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1431; x-forefront-prvs: 04041A2886 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(199003)(189002)(122556002)(15975445006)(92566001)(19300405004)(16236675004)(2501002)(99396003)(86362001)(19580405001)(33646002)(19617315012)(19580395003)(120916001)(4396001)(15202345003)(110136001)(19625215002)(50986999)(54356999)(97736003)(229853001)(230783001)(106356001)(108616004)(76576001)(40100003)(105586002)(101416001)(46102003)(87936001)(18717965001)(2656002)(107046002)(2351001)(77096003)(95666004)(77156002)(62966003)(31966008)(20776003)(21056001)(99286002)(66066001)(64706001)(74316001)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1431; H:BY1PR0501MB1430.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_92cfc78ef38f4e9aa6d8345353afe746BY1PR0501MB1430namprd05_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/tkjUBVeoCVSyS7GzykqUVkrEgm4 Cc: "'draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp@tools.ietf.org'" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] Repeated WG last call on draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 21:29:08 -0000 --_000_92cfc78ef38f4e9aa6d8345353afe746BY1PR0501MB1430namprd05_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Working Group, This is to start a two week Working Group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-in-= udp-07.txt. Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf= .org). Please send both technical comments, and (if you are happy with the documen= t as is) also send indications of support. You will recall that this document passed WG last call more than a year ago= . However, the subsequent IETF last call (in January 2014) resulted in a lengthy discussio= n, particularly over issues related to congestion and to the use (or non-use) of the UDP checksu= m with IPv6. After discussions in the March and July meetings this year (in London and T= oronto, respectively), a design team was formed to come up with improved text relat= ed to congestion control and checksum use. The document has been updated signific= antly and the changes were presented at the recent IETF meeting in Honolulu, in both = MPLS and TSVWG WGs. There is one IPR claim that applies to this draft, which can be seen at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1941/ The coauthors and contributor have indicated that they don't know of any ot= her IPR applicable to this draft. If anyone else in the working group is aware = of IPR claims against this draft, the time to disclose that is now. This working group last call will end on December 8, 2014. Ross for the wg co-chairs PS: Please also note that if you look at an earlier version of the document= on the IETF tools web site, due to some sort of glitch in the tools server there is not= a place to click under "version" at the top of the page to get version 7. However, the corre= ct version is available at both https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp-07 and= also on the datatracker at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp/. --_000_92cfc78ef38f4e9aa6d8345353afe746BY1PR0501MB1430namprd05_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Working Group,

     

    This is to start a two week Working Gro= up last call on  draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp-07.txt.

     

    Please send your comments to the mpls w= orking group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).

     

    Please send both technical comments, an= d (if you are happy with the document as is)

    also send indications of support.<= /o:p>

     

    You will recall that this document pass= ed WG last call more than a year ago. However, the

    subsequent IETF last call (in January 2= 014) resulted in a lengthy discussion, particularly over

    issues related to congestion and to the= use (or non-use) of the UDP checksum with IPv6.

    After discussions in the March and July= meetings this year (in London and Toronto,

    respectively), a design team was formed= to come up with improved text related to

    congestion control and checksum use. Th= e document has been updated significantly and

    the changes were presented at the recen= t IETF meeting in Honolulu, in both MPLS and

    TSVWG WGs.

     

    There is one IPR claim that applies to = this draft, which can be seen at:

     

    The coauthors and contributor have indi= cated that they don’t know of any other

    IPR applicable to this draft. If anyone= else in the working group is aware of IPR

    claims against this draft, the time to = disclose that is now.

     

    This working group last call will end o= n December 8, 2014.

     

    Ross

    for the wg co-chairs<= /p>

     

    PS: Please also note that if you look a= t an earlier version of the document on the IETF

    tools web site, due to some sort of gli= tch in the tools server there is not a place to click

    under “version” at the top = of the page to get version 7. However, the correct version is

    available at both https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp-= 07 and also on the

    datatracker at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls= -in-udp/.

     

     <= /p>

    --_000_92cfc78ef38f4e9aa6d8345353afe746BY1PR0501MB1430namprd05_-- From nobody Sun Nov 23 23:15:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED211A1ADB for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:15:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3A4KC8_fMuvY for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:14:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 602D61A1A54 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLY73341; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:14:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.70) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:14:46 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.50]) by szxema411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:14:39 +0800 From: Vero Zheng To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping Thread-Index: AQHQBtuvJJv650t4CUqdlSphTTN47JxvXk4Q Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:14:38 +0000 Message-ID: <2EEA459CD95CCB4988BFAFC0F2287B5C5C8E9396@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.115] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/9RWUL72Xh-uUfRPV9ImY9nzHqZo Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:15:00 -0000 I read this document and I think it solves the real problem which may happe= n in the deployment. I support the adoption of it as WG document. Cheers, Vero > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 1:09 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. >=20 > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the worki= ng > group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs converge= d on > that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries set up. Since = those > registries would include code points defined in other documents we could = not > define the registries in the current document. We now have > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a working group document, an= d can > now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-ping. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your > support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not= be > adopted as a working group document. >=20 > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. >=20 > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they ar= e > unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft than the two disclosed= . >=20 > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware o= f IPR > that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. >=20 > This poll ends December 8, 2014. >=20 > /Loa > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Sun Nov 23 23:32:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3341A1AF6 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:32:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZolpxQr1udg for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:32:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEB4A1A1AE7 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:32:29 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-44-54728351f09f Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 76.C9.25146.25382745; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:01:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:32:28 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping Thread-Index: AQHQBturh0AHeRAYHkeKFM1mTlvRg5xvY+GV Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:32:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrG5Qc1GIwfutkhYbT59is/g3dw6z xfdLS1gsbi1dyerA4rFkyU8mj1nT29g8vlz+zBbAHMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV8fhFO3vBYb6K ZZ0TWRsYd3F3MXJySAiYSFzqeMcKYYtJXLi3nq2LkYtDSOAIo0TzytfMIAkhgeWMErPXqoDY bAIGEv+/HWcBsUUEZCWubfvJBNLALHCaUeL6m4lADgeHsECixPlTmRA1SRJ9S+czQdhGEj+6 r4HNZBFQlbh/9yvYYl4Be4m1b6+yQ+xSkbjathoszglUc3HbATYQmxHouO+n1oDNYRYQl7j1 BGKmhICAxJI955khbFGJl4//sULU6Egs2P2JDcLWlli2EOIXXgFBiZMzn7BMYBSdhWTULCQt s5C0zELSsoCRZRUjR2lxalluupHhJkZgrByTYHPcwbjgk+UhRgEORiUe3g9pRSFCrIllxZW5 hxilOViUxHk1q+cFCwmkJ5akZqemFqQWxReV5qQWH2Jk4uCUamC0KdVzPRG1lO26UdlhvuBT V257L7Ap9P1lKDRjoZXcz8UdP7abb5xxSfhq2jGLeeuusfz4vSL+YtBl0elJPCes7R7V7qia yqjyJk6msytvgcw6+5i5+tyPg05z59sLT2qbtdXz6oO3n3/OmxfBUe3S9yiL8VHAA8aqKbtE M3K3v31z+HOMnNpGJZbijERDLeai4kQAWFGk8nYCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/tq1T7ECspt7NYMWQZgLw-2qlq18 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:32:31 -0000 Yes/support Regards, Jeff > On Nov 22, 2014, at 9:09 PM, "Loa Andersson" wrote: >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. >=20 > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the > working group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs > converged on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries > set up. Since those registries would include code points defined in > other documents we could not define the registries in the current > document. We now have draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a > working group document, and can now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- > lsp-ping. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. >=20 > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. >=20 > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing > list that they are unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft > than the two disclosed. >=20 > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. >=20 > This poll ends December 8, 2014. >=20 > /Loa > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Mon Nov 24 06:06:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101F41A6F68; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:06:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c8kU-J-opHGz; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x232.google.com (mail-lb0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DDA71A6F4C; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id f15so6489226lbj.23 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:06:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=QEWIruXQgifvUE+cw4/XdLAvRMsP0w2+mkLes6iu9lw=; b=H8YR0LoE3blGsHDhlhzun4Xy2QZc+E9WeJ9lDASOFrTYy8gyTSTAdLI+2QIXPEqqfI TkdljmoXBqgKOR07dstpRust/65aBv5nD+iHY30/FbsR4Ks7hE1hFVJU3HyfRmd7M8J9 2+2NdqBFrcl8LY0y6Ljz3LwdSIaXQWdMyxXAF4j+yhq6bOcYELsLAF2/LqFGs65IYqTW 3nlG3pwP32S0g9YPpxdf1vnghJKCnwV7X/ofCnYWsLV1f0z191SsKaY/Lw7kFS8c4ztZ enOGUVwx/wbYKBrFm2rKkUocjg20EukzcwNyA51T4LezsmnvoIaxnQmFMKFwwqs2SjMG wUzA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.5.198 with SMTP id u6mr21122314lau.42.1416837967866; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:06:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.152.127.168 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:06:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <809E61CD-6819-4431-999F-B0FC6A5DD204@cisco.com> References: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> <809E61CD-6819-4431-999F-B0FC6A5DD204@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 04:06:07 -1000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _A1YTuxij9sAd9VmOLcFI1iOGXo Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/dVgFJT6l3gdUHrxtKLMTqg-qxG0 Cc: The IESG , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:06:11 -0000 > Does that meet the discuss criteria? "Did the working group consider ?" absolutely does, yes. And I find it disturbing that you would rather ask that question than address the question I'm asking. Barry >> On 23 Nov 2014, at 07:08, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >> [Adding the MPLS WG] >> >> That's a pretty fine question, Barry. >> >> I'd say that, despite the care and work of the working group, it is possible that another gap will be identified. However, I think that might be a lowish possibility and that any new gaps might form a small percentage of the total gaps analysed. >> >> So, my judgement is that this is a bridge to cross when we get there, but others might comment. >> >> And, yes, we can take a pass on the references. >> >> A >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: iesg [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba >>> Sent: 23 November 2014 06:49 >>> To: The IESG >>> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org >>> Subject: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS >>> and COMMENT) >>> >>> Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: Discuss >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> DISCUSS: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> This is a DISCUSS in the truest sense: I'd like to discuss a question >>> with the shepherd and/or AD, and I fully expect to resolve the question >>> satisfactorily from that. >>> >>> The first thing I wondered was why this shouldn't be something maintained >>> in a place other than an RFC, and I found that covered well in the >>> shepherd writeup. Thanks for that! >>> >>> What I continue to wonder is whether, in having that discussion, the >>> working group considered what the likelihood is of discovering more gaps >>> as they (and other working groups) work on dealing with these. If so, I >>> wonder what the working group's plan is for documenting those. >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> I submit that a good number of the references really are normative, in >>> that understanding them is necessary in order to understand this >>> document. I'd like to see the authors sort that out, and make an >>> appropriate split in the references, so readers can know which ones truly >>> do just add extra detail (informative), and which provide necessary >>> background (normative). That said, I don't consider that important >>> enough to this document to block on it, so this is a non-blocking >>> comment. Please consider doing this, but there is no need to respond to >>> me about it. Thanks. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From nobody Mon Nov 24 06:12:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE901A6F80; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:12:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lE5qM_q5eda1; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com (mail-la0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D313A1A6F8E; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id gq15so7730408lab.18 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:12:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WLLaWtH84DjlYwOvhqeUMb49Yi0jX6x32K3gqCO4oe0=; b=oBwWCEROLXBrTT5G4eJ62j5vtKVumG3JP9Gz9K/RB+Y6ZNGPq7idH+zLpeJwAxYfYf 2XY43xMxmtPEkypUAB7RrTWdlpp73vnmkSVIu+7A5k13YE7+2ugmgcKxxJcMOMCTXhfd 0fBpnlJrPx9CRzjqsvalce3aIyMptvs5b0X1pB4J1SI2Rf2ZzKcZAqdEMpEMSJo8iiqi 7SU8fY5rYokLjZnWcBHyES5mVxFnOaPSh6DZVgqJuf2Rgiv9GHPXSjEpQYlzl1UcJ4UH hyNV/6asUJXWZKM63nNmYdAv5J3N9fIRloeD2LvHaTpKorqxn3pFfCmUOXyS+X/stYR8 aNgQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.18.130 with SMTP id w2mr8271512lad.1.1416838342400; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:12:22 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.152.127.168 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:12:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5471F00D.8010401@pi.nu> References: <20141123064914.2745.26911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <058901d006ec$2add7770$80986650$@olddog.co.uk> <5471F00D.8010401@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 04:12:22 -1000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1GX2Oj0Jzj4z6hfpFOmYGn3LVO0 Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/JtTzAlpPygk6oymp-cPMmehKxPw Cc: The IESG , "" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:12:25 -0000 Thanks, Adrian, Loa, and Mark, for the responses. > I don't know how much more I have to after Adrian's mail, it seems > cover the issues. It does. And, yet, your message does add a useful comment: > We never had the ambition to find every gap, but believed that > that documenting for the future that we made the effort and also that > the gaps we found would be a good enough idea. > > I differ from Adrian on one point, I think it is very likely that we'll > find new gaps, however they will be few and with low impact. That's a good answer, and thanks for adding that. Mark's comment is also helpful: > I would support a wiki, as that can be edited by the group > at anytime, and anything in the wiki that makes sense to add > into an IETF draft or RFC can help ensure the drafts/RFC's > have the most pertinent information, and don't end up > getting unnecessarily bloated. That's a perfect use of the working group wiki, and that should take care of the question entirely. Off to change my ballot now... > As for the references I agree that it is possible to take a pass on > them OK. I'm sad about that, but not terribly so: as I said, I think it would be helpful, but not so important for this document. So carry on, and thanks again for the good responses. Barry From nobody Mon Nov 24 06:56:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446041A6FA9 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:56:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vE9YzNgUKADr for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62CD31A6FAD for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 05F2E233DC512 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:56:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sAOEuOfD026410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:56:33 +0100 Received: from [172.27.205.177] (135.239.27.39) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:56:14 +0100 Message-ID: <5473470E.8080201@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:56:14 +0100 From: Martin Vigoureux User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [135.239.27.39] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fL9wqS7GnrvoXj3iH9fHY2geVIM Subject: [mpls] IETF91 - MPLS sessions - Minutes X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:56:38 -0000 All, the minutes of the MPLS sessions are available: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/minutes/minutes-91-mpls Please read them and let me know if I have missed something. Thanks -m From nobody Mon Nov 24 07:07:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED4A1A6FB5 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:07:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M7tNBArF9-_1 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x22e.google.com (mail-qa0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E5A11A6FA9 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id u7so6427985qaz.5 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:07:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=X5nWhvKIjUq67llSINzmXRJ0bcDxWf1tR9LZW/XaSko=; b=t0KNtRnPDrzEvGWZ1Rg7XWvZpGm7zOXCJn1puE+MPQoRZPx4IoQmqD5J2bVb3/2k3g cXK+qPd72lN/ijt1syFoeqIxalGQh34jqncHPWjTfp51O4NozCNffIKksjYDq4cKacj+ 2TSmVrJenmbiTUX6a0GQXJkLBIuir04ghZI/pWtH7irqKeobEYqDeDLZA2tAvsUc1NW0 Aa4pJwBjmjvT/lXo4nMZ5MRlE5s5qh290Aalr7UrRdgS2UVG/FtaD4H2mADW7KWj7Pvf gRwslov6j8E9E5VQCEp7H5vWXGWei36Ir7ytxaWGIjCnJVhsx5orSMqsKL1GNjn7GQAP hNhA== X-Received: by 10.140.94.233 with SMTP id g96mr29364740qge.77.1416841636253; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:07:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.89.133 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:06:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 10:06:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a7bd06e9a2205089c2666 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/R4tocZo7Q_xzgmNyniuBINgfYk8 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:07:21 -0000 --001a113a7bd06e9a2205089c2666 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Even though Loa doesn't like it, I'm STILL going to support adoption as a co-author. :-) Loa is free to yell at me the next time he sees me. :-) :-) Cheers, Andy On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Yes/support > > Regards, > Jeff > > > On Nov 22, 2014, at 9:09 PM, "Loa Andersson" wrote: > > > > Working Group, > > > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. > > > > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the > > working group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs > > converged on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries > > set up. Since those registries would include code points defined in > > other documents we could not define the registries in the current > > document. We now have draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a > > working group document, and can now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- > > lsp-ping. > > > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > > > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. > > > > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing > > list that they are unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft > > than the two disclosed. > > > > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > > this is now. > > > > This poll ends December 8, 2014. > > > > /Loa > > -- > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --001a113a7bd06e9a2205089c2666 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Even though Loa doesn't like it, I'm STILL going t= o support adoption as a co-author. :-) Loa is free to yell at me the next t= ime he sees me. :-) :-)

    Cheers,
    Andy

    On Mon, Nov 24,= 2014 at 2:32 AM, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com&g= t; wrote:
    Yes/support

    Regards,
    Jeff

    > On Nov 22, 2014, at 9:09 PM, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
    >
    > Working Group,
    >
    > This is to start a two week poll on adopting
    > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document= .
    >
    > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the > working group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chai= rs
    > converged on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registrie= s
    > set up. Since those registries would include code points defined in > other documents we could not define the registries in the current
    > document. We now have draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a > working group document, and can now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-=
    > lsp-ping.
    >
    > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org= ). Please give a technical
    > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that<= br> > the document should not be adopted as a working group document.
    >
    > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document.
    >
    > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing
    > list that they are unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft<= br> > than the two disclosed.
    >
    > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
    > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
    > this is now.
    >
    > This poll ends December 8, 2014.
    >
    > /Loa
    > --
    >
    >
    > Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
    > Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loa@pi.= nu
    > Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64=
    >
    > __________________= _____________________________
    > mpls mailing list
    > mpls@ietf.org
    > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

    --001a113a7bd06e9a2205089c2666-- From nobody Mon Nov 24 07:58:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FAC1A6FE8; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:58:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0u_vLhttUkC6; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:58:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4302E1A6FFC; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:57:37 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20141124155737.13048.2290.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:57:37 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/UvL4YvRC5DZ17OVBvL6_gNhv5bM Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Last Call: (MPLS-TP Traffic Engineering (TE) Management Information Base (MIB)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:58:03 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG (mpls) to consider the following document: - 'MPLS-TP Traffic Engineering (TE) Management Information Base (MIB)' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2014-12-08. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB) for use with network management protocols in the Internet community. In particular, it describes additional managed objects of Tunnels, Identifiers, Label Switching Router and Textual conventions to support Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) MIB modules for transport networks. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-te-mib/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Mon Nov 24 08:10:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74531A6FD1; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FYQu5uYLG43W; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80A51A8029; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:29:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZAms5idsTJ18; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBDB61A711A; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:29:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Pete Resnick" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:29:32 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/xcdHdufzNgieXqsoaX1fIhQGN0Q Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 16:29:38 -0000 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Coordinate the work on RSVP-TE with CCAMP and TEAS, and document where the work will be undertaken. In the cases where there is an overlap, generic parts will be done by the TEAS working group, MPLS data plane specific parts will be done by the MPLS working group, and support for any other specific data planes will be done by the CCAMP working group. The TEAS working group acts as the coordination point for this work. The first sentence and the last sentence of this bullet seem to contradict each other: Does this group do the coordination, or does TEAS? But even so, I'm a bit concerned by a WG coordinating work and documenting where it will be undertaken. Are you really saying that the WG has to come to consensus on where a particular piece of protocol work is to be done and then document that decision? That seems like an awfully bizzarre item of work. Please clarify. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The working group's responsibilities include procedures and protocols What do you mean by "procedures"? Operational guidance? - Determine MPLS-specific aspects of traffic engineering including for multi-areas/multi-AS scenarios in cooperation with the TEAS working group. As with the CCAMP charter, I'm a bit mystified by the word "Determine" here. What exactly does the WG do on this point? From nobody Mon Nov 24 09:01:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2381A8730; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:00:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXJhZQl08Wnp; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E9431A872E; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAOH0ocr031085; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:00:50 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAOH0lix031047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:00:47 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Pete Resnick'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:00:45 -0000 Message-ID: <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHQtasTR6x4evBKOlX4y87gV3bkbZxuo8IQ Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21126.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--8.577-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--8.577-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +c13yJDs903tvMVN/9JMyilrosmS0SOA0i/hFXziUdPvKcatS/YOlHK6 4KH7/vH9ltGYNuWMoKQ5DME8oykalW94Ipa1otxoW7gz/Gbgpl5/qILR82ilmT6IXkgHUCXLwRg eclnEWH2O8jhvcP4yfwoF19LWfsaQr78SC5iivxyDGx/OQ1GV8mrz/G/ZSbVq+gtHj7OwNO0o13 +LnQSKDHryj977msV8+QTHEfShhcjCyz5c8UxZzky2x5dHAyh6Vlxr1FJij9s= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/jr2XPedXC8Ss1MCH9OLt57Yg7Zs Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:00:56 -0000 I had some discussion with Pete about this on jabber. The problem comes because it appears from the first sentence that the = MPLS WG might be making decisions and documenting them outside the = responsibility of TEAS to act as the focus for coordination. Therefore, I propose the following modification... - Coordinate the work on RSVP-TE with CCAMP and TEAS. In the cases where there is an overlap, generic parts will be done by the TEAS working group, MPLS data plane specific parts will be done by the MPLS working group, and support for any other specific data planes will be done by the CCAMP working group. The TEAS working group acts as the focus for coordinating this work, and the MPLS working group=20 will note agreements about work to be done in this working group through milestones in this charter. Adrian From nobody Mon Nov 24 10:14:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5511A87AB for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 10:14:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdogE7zJChjc for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 10:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 284E61A0673 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 10:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPE13567; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:14:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.212.94.49) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:14:11 +0000 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.100]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 10:14:05 -0800 From: Katherine Zhao To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping Thread-Index: AQHQBtuvH7rvT+44lkacaR/N8VLKJJxwFt6g Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:14:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/0SYyU8-N8q5wVF9KOqYpEEmI_uY Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:14:18 -0000 Support. Thanks, Katherine -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 9:09 PM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.iet= f.org Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-= entropy-lsp-ping Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the working= group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs converged= on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries set up. Sinc= e those registries would include code points defined in other documents we = could not define the registries in the current document. We now have draft-= ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a working group document, and can no= w progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-ping. Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group m= ailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your su= pport/not support, especially if you think that the document should not be = adopted as a working group document. There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they are = unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft than the two disclosed. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of = IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. This poll ends December 8, 2014. /Loa --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Mon Nov 24 13:05:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B7A1A9118; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:05:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uz8xkoJjzKga; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 949B91A9115; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:05:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1416863114; x=1448399114; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M330D2Gmkm7OcEi3C2skUFHq5My/b6toNHj2BZyndHg=; b=KAAUtJujSgqfWxP9lUojSO5IriVWPBXjkxBdnHB1fWAgdV1n3SHuyrGt GXGc/FKVuF7tcsbp8imUr91H+yv8lsWn8PU61oOO3VlSteegKo/GJzoC7 kBmd12KxLWcIuwM38gAjJAG4MOWAhl9QnzG9nKLYap3kajzoe+l7kf8j6 s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5600,1067,7632"; a="79478364" Received: from unknown (HELO Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com) ([172.30.46.18]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 24 Nov 2014 13:05:13 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,451,1413270000"; d="scan'208";a="852806087" Received: from nasanexm01f.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.32]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 24 Nov 2014 13:05:12 -0800 Received: from resnick2.qualcomm.com (10.80.80.8) by NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.913.22; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:05:12 -0800 Message-ID: <54739D84.4030703@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:05:08 -0600 From: Pete Resnick User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100630 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.80.80.8] X-ClientProxiedBy: NASANEXM01H.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.34) To NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/t2UDRXzvGPI2C7E_U_llA7gocA0 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, 'The IESG' Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:05:15 -0000 On 11/24/14 11:00 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > I had some discussion with Pete about this on jabber. > The problem comes because it appears from the first sentence that the MPLS WG might be making decisions and documenting them outside the responsibility of TEAS to act as the focus for coordination. > Therefore, I propose the following modification... > > - Coordinate the work on RSVP-TE with CCAMP and TEAS. In the cases > where there is an overlap, generic parts will be done by the TEAS > working group, MPLS data plane specific parts will be done by the > MPLS working group, and support for any other specific data planes > will be done by the CCAMP working group. The TEAS working group acts > as the focus for coordinating this work, and the MPLS working group > will note agreements about work to be done in this working group > through milestones in this charter. > I think we can get a better word than "focus" in that last sentence, but, even if we can't, this addresses the blocking portion of my comments. pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 From nobody Mon Nov 24 13:07:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7565F1A9111; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:07:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O6uaN4tOsKNw; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045FD1A912A; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:07:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141124210720.23376.4245.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:07:20 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ujxqdrJMVaOxDtAWuHED6_n6G5M Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Stephen Farrell's Yes on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:07:24 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- How can I resist when it says; - Document mechanisms for securing MPLS protocols and data plane. :-) From nobody Mon Nov 24 13:23:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B9B1A9163; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:23:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bFlcGxVSZxsm; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8E4C1A903E; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAOLN719019266; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:23:07 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAOLN611019246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:23:06 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Pete Resnick'" References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> <54739D84.4030703@qti.qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: <54739D84.4030703@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:23:04 -0000 Message-ID: <080301d0082c$d5ced6b0$816c8410$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHQtasTR6x4evBKOlX4y87gV3bkbQGhueZ7AwjdRgucSZkhkA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21128.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.161-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.161-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: u1zqiMeMcro4HKI/yaqRm0sRvyNDI5heXEjKf9fhKaf7n73d09vr9+Et b6e4qSOWxIiUSjnDw0Ssz0PRfb5oOGZL9CNCFFPzngIgpj8eDcC063Wh9WVqgpgZQ9043V5e+gt Hj7OwNO2OhzOa6g8KrQ4l/jKxCmMEtfYGyv8shJP6auq9AUYjh1O8EUvAm8aNC4sd0YWedTHkP2 yapUEP3KKWedUMQI938fsC+xPFkxvsNp90fT4EjuoLJh5uXtfs Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/zBhNctYqJyUr8E91Tt5Fg7YMjVw Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, 'The IESG' Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:23:12 -0000 > I think we can get a better word than "focus" in that last sentence, Suggestions? I have antipenumbrify, but that is probably not at the top of your list. > but, even if we can't, this addresses the blocking portion of my comments. Change not yet made. I'm just letting this soak in case the WG comments. A From nobody Mon Nov 24 14:03:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933A21ACC85 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:03:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XuE2-9vzzTOt for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0765.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:765]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E44C1AC528 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:03:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:02:55 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.6]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.6]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:02:55 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" , "Shah, Himanshu" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgAWv9EAABeO84AAAd+rAAAHBYeAAM9l/jA= Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:02:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; x-forefront-prvs: 040513D301 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CXioP1wRdJqR; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x235.google.com (mail-qa0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85BE81ACCE9; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:15:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id bm13so6970802qab.26 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:15:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=GmH03EpZaCc8JQ9Y5soNLnawNlXrhrO0369ZvFqFGDM=; b=LXuoiezEXj+nm08o2/9nvc9yZEBZ7Y6JP0xheri2gBhK8GaTZp1sdhFMQGQHdvNXnZ w6IHw9RtJl/IFHkr/9/kjwMHS7KtY/DOE/c/jg88gvK+J4GJOBrlbYcCYgmh2VyKiCSZ j4ZLelqOYZ2Uxv4dmNfgE1YMMWjL+CbEckVyvUW7X4P0p9lWB2QgJlqWZk6PBHxdgKMw Px9OV1lD0iQn9S9eu316JZVeikn562j8JJa1AtCrvjshe2nuexB+J0F0tWICnpjNcWx8 DtEFkvH8fnCgaqAP6sjGfBbDeHk+j48YhsYzqbf9/bMj3Em3eHXIjX6NBT39P8LwICfz 1L5w== X-Received: by 10.224.131.4 with SMTP id v4mr31900300qas.99.1416867301766; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:15:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.89.133 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:14:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <080301d0082c$d5ced6b0$816c8410$@olddog.co.uk> References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> <54739D84.4030703@qti.qualcomm.com> <080301d0082c$d5ced6b0$816c8410$@olddog.co.uk> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:14:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: Adrian Farrel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b673a80373c430508a22030 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/UvGnaFuOW7zQU26euJfI6VWiKoE Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Pete Resnick , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:15:10 -0000 --047d7b673a80373c430508a22030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 "hub"? Cheers, Andy On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > I think we can get a better word than "focus" in that last sentence, > > Suggestions? > I have antipenumbrify, but that is probably not at the top of your list. > > > but, even if we can't, this addresses the blocking portion of my > comments. > > Change not yet made. > I'm just letting this soak in case the WG comments. > > A > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --047d7b673a80373c430508a22030 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    "hub"?

    Cheers,
    Andy=

    On Mo= n, Nov 24, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
    > I thin= k we can get a better word than "focus" in that last sentence,
    Suggestions?
    I have antipenumbrify, but that is probably not at the top of your list.
    > but, even if we can't, this addresses the blocking portion of my c= omments.

    Change not yet made.
    I'm just letting this soak in case the WG comments.

    A

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

    --047d7b673a80373c430508a22030-- From nobody Mon Nov 24 15:28:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98ED91A701F for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XvJlyuUqi1I1 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x22f.google.com (mail-qa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6076E1A0250 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id s7so7156630qap.34 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=SiLUa30tElqYZuJnHC3iRUEOVai4BFk+WjJXkmMZfsU=; b=zJLWVa1e11E+ZRbjECUX0HT8+b4egTFZh1RwcfnV2j94p5Lu5J752h8CDhh4j70cIl o7p8gSWpB8/di5lLCuTQvQFLZfsjJsYgGe2uJt9LEYQ4A23+8mmzh2KKn8BmZjW9fbQ5 NivC6eax1dWYKXnj+08oZUFpvDNbUiQQlIqFXgZg8jzverGZ1XLYywEsYF5YWWxN//9v sPDhb1rj1Tb/PMk5v9vbd5tneC61GsSFuBv/6vVXhB4FZLFUsq995a+MNN1+jpmBp8jT cuLV/JnADssTHhJykg1/b0J7KiDvcxC/Tb0AkhEisTQnTclhRk0OQweoaVR9RL1v724k Tghg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.104.236 with SMTP id a99mr32304375qgf.56.1416871695549; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.65.42 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:28:15 -0800 Message-ID: From: Sam Aldrin To: Ronald Bonica Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134f6e61b0bdb0508a32669 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ksEKuS-nzAq-kjNrO8zRdysyNnk Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 23:28:21 -0000 --001a1134f6e61b0bdb0508a32669 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, Thanks for the comments. Please find my comments inline. On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Hi Sam, > > > > Response inline=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 > > > > *From:* Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM > *To:* Ronald Bonica > *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of > questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. > > > > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with > destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), corre= ct? > > *[RPB] * Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo **Reply**, with > destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR. > %sam - Ah uh! Now I know why it(draft) is confusing. While when I read your response, it says 'Echo Reply', where as draft-bonica says, 'MPLS Echo Message'. I believe you are actually forming 'MPLS Echo Reply' and NOT 'MPLS Echo Request'. In sec 2. o Format a MPLS Echo [RFC4379] message o Send the MPLS Echo message through the LSP under test. This is what is confusing. As you are referring to RFC4379, either use MPLS Echo Request/Reply, to avoid confusion. I understand you are just using the packet format, but there is no definition of MPLS Echo message. > > 2. Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or > something else too? > > *[RPB] The egress LSR doesn=E2=80=99t need to identify the ingress LSR. I= t just > forwards an IP packet based upon IP destination. The Ingress LSR identifi= es > the Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender Handl= e > in the message with an LSP Ping Session ID. * > > > > 3. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo > request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? > > *[RPB] The transit LSR forwards the Echo Reply back to the ingress. The > ingress declares the LSP to be ready to carry traffic, even though it is > broken. That=E2=80=99s why my original message says, **=E2=80=9C*Self Pin= g is designed to > verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane resources on the > egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programming errors in which > an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, > they are more resource intensive.=E2=80=9D > > > > I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? > > *[RPB] The draft says that it avoids control plane processing on the > egress router. The egress router never looks beyond the IP header. It > simply forwards based upon IP destination.* > > > > The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress > will have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it ba= ck > to ingress. > > *[RPB] Yes. This happens on the forwarding plane.* > %sam - Could be or could punt to RP if the forwarding entry is not on the LC. > > > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its > destination, the > > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > > as it would forward any other packet." > > > > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o loo= king up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional contr= ol plane of OAM process? > > > > 4. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the > ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back at > Ingress, correct? > > *[RPB] Exactly the opposite! If the Echo reply is received at the ingress= , > that is success* > %sam - In the above answer, the echo reply could also be looped back from a transit, not necessarily egress. How you define success in that case? > > 5. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? > > *[RPB] The procedures described in Section 3.2.1 of *draft-ietf-mpls-prox= y-lsp-ping consume control plane resources on the egress LSR. > > %sam - Have you done any quantitative study with existing LSP ping (w/o FEC validation) or BFD? Trying to understand how much improvement this new mechanism is bringing. %sam - In addition, what if the egress lsr for the lsp is not in the same domain and may not have routable address? In otherwords, Echo reply is not received and timesout, but the RESV message is already received back at ingress. cheers -sam > > > ROn > > > > > > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your responses. > > > > cheers > > -sam > > > > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > > > > Folks > > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to > draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: > > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR > other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry > traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo > packets or some other packet format? > > Responses follow: > > 1) Why not use BFD? > > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping > session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second afte= r > initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resource= s > on the egress LSR. > > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a > longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in > environments where BFD is too resource intensive. > > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other > than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control > plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose > programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates > and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are availab= le > [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive. > > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry > traffic in both directions? > > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP > Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the > LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LS= R > at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a > RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the LSP only after > the LSP Self Ping session terminates successfully > > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other > packet format? > > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard > requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session > identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because > its Senders Handle is 64-bits long. > > I will update the draft to reflect this information. > > Ron Bonica > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > --001a1134f6e61b0bdb0508a32669 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Ron,

    Thanks for the comments.
    <= div>Please find my comments inline.

    On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Ronald Bonica <= rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

    Hi Sam,

    =C2=A0

    Response inline=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6<= /u>

    =C2=A0

    From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM
    To: Ronald Bonica
    Cc: mpls@ietf.org=
    Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comment= s from the mike

    =C2=A0

    Hi Ron,

    =C2=A0

    Still trying to understand the need for the draft, h= ence, have few of questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your respon= se in advance.

    =C2=A0

    1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo reque= st, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2)= , correct?

    [RPB] =C2=A0Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*,= with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR.

    =
    %sam - Ah uh! Now I know why it(draft) = is confusing. While when I read your response, it says 'Echo Reply', where a= s draft-bonica says, 'MPLS Echo Message'.=C2=A0=C2=A0
    <= div>I believe you are actually forming 'MPLS Echo Reply' and NOT &#= 39;MPLS Echo Request'.
    In sec 2.=C2=A0
    o Format a MPLS Ech= o [RFC4379] message
    o  Send the MPLS Ech=
o message through the LSP under test.

    This is what is confusing. As you are referring to =
RFC4379, either use MPLS Echo Request/Reply, to avoid confusion.
    I understand you are just using the packet format, but th=
ere is no definition of MPLS Echo message.
    

    =C2=A0
    

    2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0Is this the only thing which identifies th=
e Ingress LSR or something else too?
    

    [RPB] The egress LSR doesn=E2=80=99t n=
eed to identify the ingress LSR. It just forwards an IP packet based upon I=
P destination. The Ingress LSR identifies the Echo
 Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender Handle in the m=
essage with an LSP Ping Session ID.

    

    =C2=A0
    

    

    

    
3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and=
 the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process?

    

    [RPB] The transit LSR forwards the Ech=
o Reply back to the ingress. The ingress declares the LSP to be ready to ca=
rry traffic, even though it is broken.
 That=E2=80=99s why my original message says, =
=E2=80=9CSelf
 Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane r=
esources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programming e=
rrors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards th=
e packet. Mechanisms that diagnose
 such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte=
nsive.=E2=80=9D
    

    =C2=A0

    I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane=
 processing. How so?
    

    [RPB] The draft says that it av=
oids control plane processing on the egress router. The egress router never=
 looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwards
 based upon IP destination.
    

    =C2=A0

    The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, whic=
h means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip add=
ress to send it back to ingress.
    

    [RPB] Yes. This happens on the =
forwarding plane.
    %sam - Could be or could punt to RP if the forwarding entry is not on th=
e LC.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Draft says "The = egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destination, the= 

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 ingress LSR.=C2=A0 The egres=
s LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
    =C2=A0=C2=A0 as it would forward any othe=
r packet."
    =C2=A0
    Could you explain, how egress forwards th=
e packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the da=
ta plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?
    =C2=A0

    4.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back = at the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request ba= ck at Ingress, correct?<= /span>

    [RPB] Exactly the opposite! If the Ech= o reply is received at the ingress, that is success

    %sam - In the above answer, the echo r= eply could also be looped back from a transit, not necessarily egress. How = you define success in that case?

    =C2=A0

    5.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egres= s?

    [RPB] The procedures descri=
bed in Section 3.2.1 of draft-ie=
tf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping consume control plane resources on the egress LSR.
    %sam - Have you done a= ny quantitative study with existing LSP ping (w/o FEC validation) or BFD? T= rying to understand how much improvement this new mechanism is bringing.

    %sam - In addition, what if the egress lsr for the l= sp is not in the same domain and may not have routable address? In otherwor= ds, Echo reply is not received and timesout, but the RESV message is alread= y received back at ingress.=C2=A0

    cheers
    -sam
    =C2=A0=

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ROn

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Will followup with additional questions, if any, bas= ed on your responses.

    =C2=A0

    cheers

    -sam

    =C2=A0

    On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

    =C2=A0

    Folks

    At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping:

    1) Why not use BFD?
    2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry t= raffic in both directions?
    4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format?

    Responses follow:

    1) Why not use BFD?

    Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR.

    By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive.

    2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

    Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte= nsive.

    3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry t= raffic in both directions?

    In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwar= ds traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates suc= cessfully

    4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format?

    LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long.

    I will update the draft to reflect this information.

    Ron Bonica

    _______________________________________________
    mpls mailing list
    mpls@ietf.org
    ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

    =C2=A0


--001a1134f6e61b0bdb0508a32669-- From nobody Mon Nov 24 17:20:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D350A1A7018 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:20:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIR--wCYxxt9 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1161B1A700C for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLZ63818; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:20:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.71) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:20:18 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.51]) by SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:20:13 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping Thread-Index: AQHQBtutxhg/1VxEvEqA+DRnEn3etZxwjb1A Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.97.72] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/6iSA6y2VjOT6wF0MUXKMfemMorY Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:20:27 -0000 Yes/support. I have read the draft, it's useful. Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 1:09 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.i= etf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. >=20 > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the worki= ng > group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs converge= d on > that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries set up. Since = those > registries would include code points defined in other documents we could = not > define the registries in the current document. We now have > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a working group document, an= d can > now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-ping. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your > support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not= be > adopted as a working group document. >=20 > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. >=20 > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they ar= e unaware > of any other IPR claims against this draft than the two disclosed. >=20 > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware o= f IPR > that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. >=20 > This poll ends December 8, 2014. >=20 > /Loa > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Mon Nov 24 17:52:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB5F1A86E6 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:52:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z6t2K83mliyb for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C34321A6F07 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:52:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=54294; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416880342; x=1418089942; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=mJu3MA86rQfNYYDA0Fe9lzDiQT2O+5kfM2hCfNRfqC8=; b=lOmkMEkqImiTcyGjk/8kQtjGp/EEtA5vOl0611MZ4eE/G+56IadvhnzO rUr7N88Ow7FVNxpTK8evmzTm/vndUNzJcvF8DpKvtjufigJYVd6qgwhnt TUidEUKCnPlJfUJTLZDuOYezq4zVRNrrFKiLL6rXDYjuLPlf5XMVsGrQW I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApYHAJDgc1StJA2M/2dsb2JhbABbgkIhI1JXBIMBxhsBCYZQAhx0FgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBBAEBASAKQQsQAgEGAg4DBAEBCxYBBgMCAgIfBgsUCQgCBAENBQgTiBADEgEMnRCcdpAXDYY4AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSOQoFgJxYXBAYBBoJyNoEfBZA3giyHNoJNg0iDWIpHSIJzhAqDfHeBBkKBAgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,452,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="374941859" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Nov 2014 01:52:05 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com [173.37.183.84]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAP1q3x2015582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:52:03 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([173.37.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:52:03 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: Ronald Bonica , "Shah, Himanshu" , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBHIHKykIxbRZcUyqspg5upfk9pxp/CCAgAAO/gD//8o1wIAG6ykA///bNiA= Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:52:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.24.3.166] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CECE764681BE964CBE1DFF78F3CDD3943F5A41A8xmbalnx01ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/tG6mkijRZf8skNKjv_-eA8-ztRQ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG 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24 Nov 2014 17:58:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YipEC-_JCBw5; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 976AA1A8792; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.168.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 89753180110A; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:57:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5473E21B.7050409@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:57:47 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Pete Resnick' , 'The IESG' References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ElRsjCGA773u77hsKq0GblwxbrE Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:58:05 -0000 Adrian, possibly nit picking, but ... On 2014-11-25 01:00, Adrian Farrel wrote: > I had some discussion with Pete about this on jabber. > The problem comes because it appears from the first sentence that the MPLS WG might be making decisions and documenting them outside the responsibility of TEAS to act as the focus for coordination. > Therefore, I propose the following modification... > > - Coordinate the work on RSVP-TE with CCAMP and TEAS. In the cases > where there is an overlap, generic parts will be done by the TEAS > working group, MPLS data plane specific parts will be done by the > MPLS working group, and support for any other specific data planes > will be done by the CCAMP working group. The TEAS working group acts > as the focus for coordinating this work, and the MPLS working group OLD > will note agreements about work to be done in this working group > through milestones in this charter. NEW will track agreements about work to be done by the MPLS working group as milestones in the working group charter. /Loa > > Adrian > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Mon Nov 24 18:42:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6343B1A1B60 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:42:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zeo8_lz84yPq for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 967391A1B80 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:42:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=30196; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416883368; x=1418092968; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=tl6L10wm12rdgo5Y4qhYPLyrEmONA4TlK9gZYzGSW78=; b=DYNy4Px3UObGKucwi1Hzy14us4R1GXGR5JxiT/TAYnzv5DPwrXAgbkUN Z8lB8CPgGFslhnHdVjpPpMqgXipvFdt2Z0Q7sevLRGfwyb7JcOu2x97D/ 9S6cpGIa8nVc/K3Jprt7dIDiCmOkbDDfzCpvqbv/cBQgWGJqFyDlcnlfc I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiUFAI/rc1StJA2H/2dsb2JhbABRCoJCISNSVwTGb4ItAQmGUAKBEhYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQFrCxACAQgRAwEBASEHByEGCxQJCAIEAQ0FiCsDEgEMygsNhjgBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBI5CgVxLDQQGAQaERwWQN4IshzaCTYIUgTSDWIM4hw9IgnOECoN8d4EIJByBAgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,452,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="99792900" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Nov 2014 02:42:46 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAP2gkrD003053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:42:46 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:42:46 -0600 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Sam Aldrin , Ronald Bonica Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AQHQBHIHtJZQ131YqkeZA80XQ40lqpxsBFuAgATT+oD//+KBgA== Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:42:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.6.141106 x-originating-ip: [10.82.227.176] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D09951A671955cpignataciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PgwX822IrGqBzqiqd7htts2ckvw Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:42:52 -0000 --_000_D09951A671955cpignataciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ron, Sam, Joining the discussion late. I did want to point out a couple of additional= considerations, I believe these have not been mentioned yet, apologies if = they have: 1. If the packet is an MPLS Echo Request, from S4.3 of RFC4379, =93The R= outer Alert option MUST be set in the IP header.=94 In that case, the egres= s will do some processing, punt to a slower path, examine more closely, fol= low RFC4379=92s procedures, might not like the pak. 2. If the packet is an MPLS Echo Reply, it cannot be sent, because from = S4.5 of RFC4379 =93It MUST ONLY be sent in response to an MPLS echo request= .=94 3. In both #1 and #2, there are some potential issues with following the= RFC4379 processing. However, 4. There is nothing preventing you from defining a new Message Type of = =93MPLS echo self-ping=94 in some friendly range, and specifying the proced= ures. The caveats of not detecting an LSP broken mid-way that puts the IP p= acket on the data plane and others still apply to this (unless there is som= e control plane processing on the LSP egress, which defeats the purpose. Thanks, Carlos. From: Sam Aldrin > Date: Monday, November 24, 2014 at 6:28 PM To: Ronald Bonica > Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from = the mike Hi Ron, Thanks for the comments. Please find my comments inline. On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: Hi Sam, Response inline=85=85 From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM To: Ronald Bonica Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from = the mike Hi Ron, Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of quest= ions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with dest= ination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct? [RPB] Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*, with destination IP = address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR. %sam - Ah uh! Now I know why it(draft) is confusing. While when I read your= response, it says 'Echo Reply', where as draft-bonica says, 'MPLS Echo Mes= sage'. I believe you are actually forming 'MPLS Echo Reply' and NOT 'MPLS Echo Req= uest'. In sec 2. o Format a MPLS Echo [RFC4379] message o Send the MPLS Echo message through the LSP under test. This is what is confusing. As you are referring to RFC4379, either use MPLS= Echo Request/Reply, to avoid confusion. I understand you are just using the packet format, but there is no definiti= on of MPLS Echo message. 2. Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or someth= ing else too? [RPB] The egress LSR doesn=92t need to identify the ingress LSR. It just fo= rwards an IP packet based upon IP destination. The Ingress LSR identifies t= he Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender Handle i= n the message with an LSP Ping Session ID. 3. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo req= uest ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? [RPB] The transit LSR forwards the Echo Reply back to the ingress. The ingr= ess declares the LSP to be ready to carry traffic, even though it is broken= . That=92s why my original message says, =93Self Ping is designed to verify= LSP readiness without consuming control plane resources on the egress rout= er. It is not designed to diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that d= iagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resour= ce intensive.=94 I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? [RPB] The draft says that it avoids control plane processing on the egress = router. The egress router never looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwa= rds based upon IP destination. The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress wil= l have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to= ingress. [RPB] Yes. This happens on the forwarding plane. %sam - Could be or could punt to RP if the forwarding entry is not on the L= C. Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destinatio= n, the ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly as it would forward any other packet." Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looki= ng up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control= plane of OAM process? 4. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the ingres= s then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back at Ingress= , correct? [RPB] Exactly the opposite! If the Echo reply is received at the ingress, t= hat is success %sam - In the above answer, the echo reply could also be looped back from a= transit, not necessarily egress. How you define success in that case? 5. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? [RPB] The procedures described in Section 3.2.1 of draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-ls= p-ping consume control plane resources on the egress LSR. %sam - Have you done any quantitative study with existing LSP ping (w/o FEC= validation) or BFD? Trying to understand how much improvement this new mec= hanism is bringing. %sam - In addition, what if the egress lsr for the lsp is not in the same d= omain and may not have routable address? In otherwords, Echo reply is not r= eceived and timesout, but the RESV message is already received back at ingr= ess. cheers -sam ROn Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your responses. cheers -sam On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: Folks At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping: 1) Why not use BFD? 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format? Responses follow: 1) Why not use BFD? Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR. By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive. 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]= . However, they are more resource intensive. 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions? In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RES= V message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the LSP only after the L= SP Self Ping session terminates successfully 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format? LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long. I will update the draft to reflect this information. Ron Bonica _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_D09951A671955cpignataciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <477983B5F7D2334286CBAF70D816F72D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Ron, Sam,

Joining the discussion late. I did want to point out a couple of addit= ional considerations, I believe these have not been mentioned yet, apologie= s if they have:
  1. If the packet is an MPLS Echo Request, from S4.3 of RFC4379, =93The Rou= ter Alert option MUST be set in the IP header.=94 In that case, the egress = will do some processing, punt to a slower path, examine more closely, follo= w RFC4379=92s procedures, might not like the pak.
  2. If the packet is an MPLS Echo Reply, it cannot be sent, b= ecause from S4.5 of RFC4379 =93It MUST ONLY be sent in response to an = MPLS echo request.=94
  3. In both #1 and #2, there are some potential i= ssues with following the RFC4379 processing. However,
  4. There is noth= ing preventing you from defining a new Message Type of =93MPLS echo se= lf-ping=94 in some friendly range, and specifying the procedures. The cavea= ts of not detecting an LSP broken mid-way that puts the IP packet on the da= ta plane and others still apply to this (unless there is some control plane processing on the LSP eg= ress, which defeats the purpose.
Thanks,

Carlos.

From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 24, 2014 at = 6:28 PM
To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@i= etf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the comments.
Please find my comments inline.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Ronald Bonica <= span dir=3D"ltr"> <rbonica@junipe= r.net> wrote:

Hi Sam,

 

Response inline=85=85=

 

From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM
To: Ronald Bonica
Cc: mpls@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comment= s from the mike

 

Hi Ron,

 

Still trying to understand the need for the draft, h= ence, have few of questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your respon= se in advance.

 

1.      (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo reque= st, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2)= , correct?

[RPB]  Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*,= with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR.

%sam - Ah uh! Now I know why it(draft) is confusing. While when I read your response, it says 'Echo Reply', where as draft-bonic= a says, 'MPLS Echo Message'.  
I believe you are actually forming 'MPLS Echo Reply' and NOT 'MPLS Ech= o Request'.
In sec 2. 
o Fo= rmat a MPLS Echo [RFC4379] message
o  Send the MPLS Echo message through the LSP under =
test.

This is what is confusing. As you are referring to R=
FC4379, either use MPLS Echo Request/Reply, to avoid confusion.
I understand you are just using the packet format, b=
ut there is no definition of MPLS Echo message.

 

2.        Is this the only thing which identifies th= e Ingress LSR or something else too?

[RPB] The egress LSR doesn=92= t need to identify the ingress LSR. It just forwards an IP packet based upo= n IP destination. The Ingress LSR identifies the Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender Handle= in the message with an LSP Ping Session ID.

 

3.     = ; What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and= the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process?

[RPB] The transit LSR forward= s the Echo Reply back to the ingress. The ingress declares the LSP to be re= ady to carry traffic, even though it is broken. That=92s why my original message says, =93Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane r= esources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programming e= rrors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards th= e packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte= nsive.=94

 

I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane= processing. How so?

[RPB] The draft says that it = avoids control plane processing on the egress router. The egress router nev= er looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwards based upon IP destination.

 

The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, whic= h means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip add= ress to send it back to ingress.

[RPB] Yes. This happens on th= e forwarding plane.

%sam - Could be or could punt to RP if the forwarding entry is not on = the LC. 

 

Draft says "The = egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its destination, the= 

   ingress LSR.  The egres=
s LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
   as it would forward any othe=
r packet."
 
Could you explain, how egress forwards th=
e packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the da=
ta plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?
 

4.     = ; Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back = at the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request ba= ck at Ingress, correct?<= /span>

[RPB] Exactly the opposite! I= f the Echo reply is received at the ingress, that is success=

%sam - In the above answer, the echo reply could also be looped back f= rom a transit, not necessarily egress. How you define success in that case?=

=

 

5.     = ; Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress?

[RPB] The procedur=
es described in Section 3.2.1 of draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping consume control plane resources on the egre=
ss LSR.
%sam - Have you done any quantitative study with existing LSP ping (w/= o FEC validation) or BFD? Trying to understand how much improvement this ne= w mechanism is bringing.

%sam - In addition, what if the egress lsr for the lsp is not in the s= ame domain and may not have routable address? In otherwords, Echo reply is = not received and timesout, but the RESV message is already received back at= ingress. 

cheers
-sam
 =

  &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;    ROn

 

 

Will followup with additional questions, if any, bas= ed on your responses.

 

cheers

-sam

 

On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

 

Folks

At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping:

1) Why not use BFD?
2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions?
4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format?

Responses follow:

1) Why not use BFD?

Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR.

By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive.

2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte= nsive.

3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traff= ic in both directions?

In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwar= ds traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates suc= cessfully

4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format?

LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long.

I will update the draft to reflect this information.

Ron Bonica

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

 


 --_000_D09951A671955cpignataciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 24 20:54:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1521A1B95 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:54:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L32uBx7UvvZR for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:54:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1871A1B9B for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:54:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125045454.21339.41063.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:54:54 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/5BpmainSCweZX2JB4iYtVBEal5g Subject: [mpls] Milestones changed for mpls WG X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 04:54:56 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements for publication", resolved as "Done". URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/ From nobody Mon Nov 24 20:56:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C3641A1B9B; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:56:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hf5aR6bAxnbM; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:56:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A431A1B8A; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:56:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125045602.22746.75376.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:56:02 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/h2dVfnWUS-uS9NQq7FMTY5xxmHY Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 04:56:03 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm as confused as Pete is in his Block, but if you work things out with Pete, I'm almost certainly good. From nobody Mon Nov 24 22:24:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1691A1BDB for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:24:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GadoBTD6Sggd for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 542FB1A700C for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPE56201; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:24:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:24:28 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.72]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:24:25 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping Thread-Index: AQHQBtusvilARS/4+EmmPa7PbdCax5xw31YQ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:24:24 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9273379DBEE@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.96.76] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/kr0tG0obAqUbckMgtL-JLgOcUys Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:24:34 -0000 Yes/Support. The document provides useful mechanism for exercising ECMP pat= hs. Best regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 1:09 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. >=20 > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the worki= ng > group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs converge= d on > that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries set up. Since = those > registries would include code points defined in other documents we could = not > define the registries in the current document. We now have > draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a working group document, an= d can > now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- lsp-ping. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your > support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not= be > adopted as a working group document. >=20 > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. >=20 > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing list that they ar= e > unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft than the two disclosed= . >=20 > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware o= f IPR > that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. >=20 > This poll ends December 8, 2014. >=20 > /Loa > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 25 00:02:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612ED1A0029 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nr5VWo7AVcOB for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x234.google.com (mail-wg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 626F41A0025 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id a1so98062wgh.11 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=sf4S7TdSCzJsSfrb1/07+PKv+oMeZalM7m1JQtChv4Y=; b=u6beHeaH3x8vOAhG9M/Wz2ro7e5Mp0oanxWZrgoaLanRT0ELGxQrVrdq+3Mtc81EKi /sAjpZeAN1V0Fpuc8yML++HySNR4GeLMRkNzFIAckJG1yD+7m4236EPpBiGh/wF/ZTNE jyWJf2H7HC8V7emyULwFM20MLQMWkRfdjcrsdbDKge6HL73DZsgSoahggnTxNEvnYk/K YI5+M3ozkTANnc6MF21MzzKcHOamLlExCypHBpIsFA1qhOM4OGuI5orp49cise3wfNvx whU6Y/uJLSEf73oV4n8VdLDvAw1q0PhAfoVcYPYAr8jujFEwyFrlx/4bkWSFEpg/YVFG WwmQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.203.105 with SMTP id kp9mr41712606wjc.81.1416902523082; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.14.130 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> References: <54716BEC.9050700@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:02:03 -0800 Message-ID: From: venkatesan mahalingam To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6d876491dc710508aa53e4 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/MtND7EwpGtADrH-1EmBb1N37VpM Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:02:06 -0000 --047d7b6d876491dc710508aa53e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes/Support. -Venkat. On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group document. > > A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the > working group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs > converged on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries > set up. Since those registries would include code points defined in > other documents we could not define the registries in the current > document. We now have draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a > working group document, and can now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy- > lsp-ping. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document. > > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing > list that they are unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft > than the two disclosed. > > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > This poll ends December 8, 2014. > > /Loa > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --047d7b6d876491dc710508aa53e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes/Support.


-Venkat.

On Sat, = Nov 22, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping-04 as an MPLS working group docume= nt.

A bit if background, we had this document almost ready to go to the
working group adoption poll, but a discussion between authors and chairs converged on that it would be beneficial to have to new IANA registries
set up. Since those registries would include code points defined in
other documents we could not define the registries in the current
document. We now have draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registry adopted as a=
working group document, and can now progress draft-akiya-mpls-entropy-
lsp-ping.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls= @ietf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

There is two IPR disclosures directly against this document.

The authors has all stated on the working group mailing
list that they are unaware of any other IPR claims against this draft
than the two disclosed.

However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
this is now.

This poll ends December 8, 2014.

/Loa
--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739= 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--047d7b6d876491dc710508aa53e4-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 00:41:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF831A006B for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AvPZ3UHyWUZM for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81CBD1A0067 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id w10so150576pde.10 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=tDoUQ9R/WeP4zIwnY/UHA49WgaYnw7iubwdgcOKatAY=; b=kJsoxaxL5il4OUcaIOA4/ktaDXd5UEjf1ogdmD/JkewLCZlHl70xCYyJ7geUkXeQuR XTGne8SRPoOAhR3heBjCpNcxhrlfbuit7ewOzHuIv6rixlB3Xoh898cQvgTM7dK1ztXf aT+iBuCKZNY96O+7ud9W5csi+KwmKc9tp+mBeRartP4f5cru5KreR61w//RDi3clNzQs lKNU6FaupCzoz9wAcnrqsaWktxqynEKeuQvwvW58KS+Fqf50ZU01Mu/2ju+BM/NndC5y vmV/eo8qZjROeVAiqTRCEaSHSiEegN65BRN0rEeUrDOU3EdA9HN41NTo+eFg5h/jYukc dMBw== X-Received: by 10.66.150.234 with SMTP id ul10mr40540255pab.91.1416904886766; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (c-107-3-154-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i11sm824644pat.3.2014.11.25.00.41.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:25 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_19C4DD0E-4AB3-4BB9-8AFF-DEFD5B3C686F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:41:23 -0800 Message-Id: <710225E8-F54C-497C-9C63-3DEFD04ED5FB@gmail.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <6cd92238dc4442a283b9ba92bd299e59@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> To: Carlos Pignataro X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/o8QCiRFmmpcfht5eUWhfsQvzlkc Cc: Ronald Bonica , "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:41:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_19C4DD0E-4AB3-4BB9-8AFF-DEFD5B3C686F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi Carlos, Comments inline. > On Nov 24, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Ron, Sam, >=20 > Joining the discussion late. I did want to point out a couple of = additional considerations, I believe these have not been mentioned yet, = apologies if they have: > If the packet is an MPLS Echo Request, from S4.3 of RFC4379, =93The = Router Alert option MUST be set in the IP header.=94 In that case, the = egress will do some processing, punt to a slower path, examine more = closely, follow RFC4379=92s procedures, might not like the pak. Yes, this is what I was eluding to when I sent my first email. But after = re-reading and Ron's reply, MPLS Echo request format type packet is = never sent. Instead always an MPLS Echo Reply format type packet, which = gets sent, which means, IP options are not set Rest of the comments were mentioned in other emails as well. -sam > If the packet is an MPLS Echo Reply, it cannot be sent, because from = S4.5 of RFC4379 =93It MUST ONLY be sent in response to an MPLS echo = request.=94 > In both #1 and #2, there are some potential issues with following the = RFC4379 processing. However, > There is nothing preventing you from defining a new Message Type of = =93MPLS echo self-ping=94 in some friendly range, and specifying the = procedures. The caveats of not detecting an LSP broken mid-way that puts = the IP packet on the data plane and others still apply to this (unless = there is some control plane processing on the LSP egress, which defeats = the purpose. > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos. >=20 > From: Sam Aldrin > > Date: Monday, November 24, 2014 at 6:28 PM > To: Ronald Bonica > > Cc: "mpls@ietf.org " > > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike >=20 > Hi Ron, >=20 > Thanks for the comments. > Please find my comments inline. >=20 > On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: >> Hi Sam, >> =20 >> Response inline=85=85 >> =20 >> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com = ]=20 >> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM >> To: Ronald Bonica >> Cc: mpls@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike >> =20 >> Hi Ron, >> =20 >> Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. >> =20 >> 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, = with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? >> [RPB] Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR. > %sam - Ah uh! Now I know why it(draft) is confusing. While when I read = your response, it says 'Echo Reply', where as draft-bonica says, 'MPLS = Echo Message'. =20 > I believe you are actually forming 'MPLS Echo Reply' and NOT 'MPLS = Echo Request'. > In sec 2.=20 > o Format a MPLS Echo [RFC4379] message > o Send the MPLS Echo message through the LSP under test. >=20 > This is what is confusing. As you are referring to RFC4379, either use = MPLS Echo Request/Reply, to avoid confusion. > I understand you are just using the packet format, but there is no = definition of MPLS Echo message. >> =20 >> 2. Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? >> [RPB] The egress LSR doesn=92t need to identify the ingress LSR. It = just forwards an IP packet based upon IP destination. The Ingress LSR = identifies the Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the = Sender Handle in the message with an LSP Ping Session ID. >> =20 >> 3. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the = Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? >>=20 >> [RPB] The transit LSR forwards the Echo Reply back to the ingress. = The ingress declares the LSP to be ready to carry traffic, even though = it is broken. That=92s why my original message says, =93Self Ping is = designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane = resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.=94 >> =20 >> I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane processing. How = so? >> [RPB] The draft says that it avoids control plane processing on the = egress router. The egress router never looks beyond the IP header. It = simply forwards based upon IP destination. >> =20 >> The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the = egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to = send it back to ingress. >> [RPB] Yes. This happens on the forwarding plane. > %sam - Could be or could punt to RP if the forwarding entry is not on = the LC.=20 >> =20 >> Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the >> ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message = exactly >> as it would forward any other packet." >> =20 >> Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? >> =20 >> 4. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the = ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back = at Ingress, correct? >>=20 >> [RPB] Exactly the opposite! If the Echo reply is received at the = ingress, that is success > %sam - In the above answer, the echo reply could also be looped back = from a transit, not necessarily egress. How you define success in that = case? >=20 >> =20 >> 5. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? >>=20 >> [RPB] The procedures described in Section 3.2.1 of = draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping consume control plane resources on the = egress LSR. > %sam - Have you done any quantitative study with existing LSP ping = (w/o FEC validation) or BFD? Trying to understand how much improvement = this new mechanism is bringing. >=20 > %sam - In addition, what if the egress lsr for the lsp is not in the = same domain and may not have routable address? In otherwords, Echo reply = is not received and timesout, but the RESV message is already received = back at ingress.=20 >=20 > cheers > -sam >> =20 >> ROn >> =20 >> =20 >> Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. >> =20 >> cheers >> -sam >> =20 >>> On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: >>> =20 >>> Folks >>>=20 >>> At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >>>=20 >>> 1) Why not use BFD? >>> 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an = LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >>> 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to = carry traffic in both directions? >>> 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >>>=20 >>> Responses follow: >>>=20 >>> 1) Why not use BFD? >>>=20 >>> Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >>>=20 >>> By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >>>=20 >>> 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >>>=20 >>> Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >>>=20 >>> 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to = carry traffic in both directions? >>>=20 >>> In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates = two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one = end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >>>=20 >>> 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >>>=20 >>> LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >>>=20 >>> I will update the draft to reflect this information. >>>=20 >>> Ron Bonica >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpls mailing list >>> mpls@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = >> =20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_19C4DD0E-4AB3-4BB9-8AFF-DEFD5B3C686F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Hi Carlos,

Comments inline.
On Nov 24, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Carlos Pignataro = (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi, Ron, Sam,

Joining the discussion late. I did want to point out a = couple of additional considerations, I believe these have not been = mentioned yet, apologies if they have:
  1. If the packet is an MPLS Echo Request, from S4.3 of = RFC4379, =93The Router Alert option MUST be set in the IP header.=94 In = that case, the egress will do some processing, punt to a slower path, = examine more closely, follow RFC4379=92s procedures, might not like the pak.
Yes, this is what I was = eluding to when I sent my first email. But after re-reading and Ron's = reply, MPLS Echo request format type packet is never sent. Instead =  always an MPLS Echo Reply format type packet, which gets sent, = which means, IP options are not set

Rest of the comments were mentioned in other = emails as well.

-sam
  1. If the packet is an MPLS Echo Reply, it cannot be sent, = because from S4.5 of RFC4379 =93It MUST ONLY be sent in response to = an MPLS echo request.=94
  2. In both #1 and #2, there are = some potential issues with following the RFC4379 processing. = However,
  3. There is nothing preventing you from = defining a new Message Type of =93MPLS echo self-ping=94 in some = friendly range, and specifying the procedures. The caveats of not = detecting an LSP broken mid-way that puts the IP packet on the data = plane and others still apply to this (unless there is some control plane processing on the LSP = egress, which defeats the purpose.
Thanks,

Carlos.

From: Sam Aldrin = <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, = November 24, 2014 at 6:28 PM
To: Ronald Bonica = <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the comments.
Please find my comments inline.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Ronald = Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi = Sam,
 
Response = inline=85=85
 
From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:28 PM
To: Ronald Bonica
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: = Response to comments from the mike
 
Hi Ron,
 
Still trying to understand the = need for the draft, hence, have few of questions and need = clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance.
 
1.      (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends = the Echo request, with destination IP address to self, and forwards to = Egress LSR (sec 2), correct?
[RPB]  Almost. The Ingress LSR sends the Echo *Reply*, with destination IP address to self, and forwards = to Egress LSR.
%sam - Ah uh! Now I know why it(draft) is confusing. = While when I read your response, it says 'Echo Reply', where as = draft-bonica says, 'MPLS Echo Message'.  
I believe you are actually forming 'MPLS Echo Reply' and = NOT 'MPLS Echo Request'.
In sec 2. 
o Format a MPLS Echo [RFC4379] message
o  Send the MPLS Echo message through the =
LSP under test.

This is what is confusing. As you are =
referring to RFC4379, either use MPLS Echo Request/Reply, to avoid =
confusion.
I understand you are just using the packet =
format, but there is no definition of MPLS Echo message.
 
2.        Is this the only thing which = identifies the Ingress LSR or something else too?
[RPB] The egress LSR = doesn=92t need to identify the ingress LSR. It just forwards an IP = packet based upon IP destination. The Ingress LSR identifies the Echo Reply as one that it sent to itself by matching the Sender = Handle in the message with an LSP Ping Session ID.
 

3.      What happens if there is LSP breakage or = something and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it = process?

[RPB] The transit LSR = forwards the Echo Reply back to the ingress. The ingress declares the = LSP to be ready to carry traffic, even though it is broken. That=92s why my original message says, =93Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control = plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive.=94
 
I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane = processing. How so?
[RPB] The draft says that it avoids = control plane processing on the egress router. The egress router never = looks beyond the IP header. It simply forwards based upon IP destination.
 
The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, = which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the = ip address to send it back to ingress.
[RPB] Yes. This happens on the forwarding = plane.
%sam - Could be or could punt to RP if the forwarding = entry is not on the LC. 
 
Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS = Echo message to its destination, the
   ingress =
LSR.  The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly
   as it would =
forward any other packet."
 
Could you explain, how =
egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP =
header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control plane of OAM =
process?
 

4.      Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is = received back at the ingress then it is failure, rather it should = receive Echo Request back at Ingress, correct?

[RPB] Exactly the = opposite! If the Echo reply is received at the ingress, that is = success
%sam - In the above answer, the echo reply could also be = looped back from a transit, not necessarily egress. How you define = success in that case?

 

5.      Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self = via Egress?

[RPB] The procedures =
described in Section 3.2.1 of draft-ietf-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping consume control plane =
resources on the egress LSR.
%sam - Have you done any quantitative study with = existing LSP ping (w/o FEC validation) or BFD? Trying to understand how = much improvement this new mechanism is bringing.

%sam - In addition, what if the egress lsr for the lsp = is not in the same domain and may not have routable address? In = otherwords, Echo reply is not received and timesout, but the RESV = message is already received back at ingress. 

cheers
-sam
 
          &nb=
sp;            =
;         ROn
 
 
Will followup with additional = questions, if any, based on your responses.
 
cheers
-sam
 
On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, = Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
 
Folks

At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

1) Why not use BFD?
2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions?
4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format?

Responses follow:

1) Why not use BFD?

Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.

By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over = a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in = environments where BFD is too resource intensive.

2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other = than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control = plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive.

3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions?

In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint = forwards traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session = terminates successfully

4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format?

LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.

I will update the draft to reflect this information.

Ron Bonica

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
 

= --Apple-Mail=_19C4DD0E-4AB3-4BB9-8AFF-DEFD5B3C686F-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 00:49:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87ACE1A006E for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7aGq0cVwXgc4 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x229.google.com (mail-pd0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEB9C1A006B for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id fp1so156409pdb.14 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=Yn2ojmomaOFFOARXcJtaFyZmpflshssvJxT9z+GYKIE=; b=KjaCe6anzggS5u7iPG7FghtUUs8OTsw1Bu1yty+adP1pUDIwe52NPMUyp4Fu9ZeDvu q+ICjlTSz6HYYLTFa3zRzcKimaqhWREdZoYm+3mjI5O30482VTTAjsPGrI/jf6XPSWEg Nb8jznXBNFQi4gewi+Nc8M9mhHvdkzSyb6hoKs1mKDVvilA7P7eBXIz+eJx8MqTMp+sq 3p3rVkX93lrUheXDevDcPZfa4+H4NUDdJ6/G00P9uWsA+1Mpi7Tq3xfebMKLB+W8lJOh 31dFAxB8FnMDGegvJJbSMf26ztITXNm8x/tyzPNeqc4aYLVzTmfJOyB2ux11NVPee0HQ vhBw== X-Received: by 10.66.139.134 with SMTP id qy6mr40390539pab.128.1416905333047; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (c-107-3-154-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [107.3.154.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id t9sm778435pbs.75.2014.11.25.00.48.51 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:52 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F1D605BD-80E2-4AA5-9F10-946219D7DA5F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:48:50 -0800 Message-Id: <8B302482-FCF4-41C4-8407-30782EF0A37B@gmail.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> To: Ronald Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/YP7rlGDrIS7C-Y-dwhuugG95dsY Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:48:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F1D605BD-80E2-4AA5-9F10-946219D7DA5F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ron, I do not think the reason specifying it as LSP ping is correct.=20 Although you are using LSP ping Echo reply like packet format, it is not = LSP ping packet as it doesn't confirm to RFC4379. For ex: MPLS Echo Reply is only sent when MPLS Echo Request is received. = Neither does it detect any dataplane failures, which is the title of the = RFC.=20 Hence, I am not convinced that this ID warrants informational RFC, which = is based on RFC4379. But if you want to keep the ID out side the perview of RFC4379, then it = should be updated accordingly and discussion should be on those lines. cheers -sam > On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Ronald Bonica = wrote: >=20 > Shah, > =20 > Because there are no interoperability implications, there is no need = for a standards track RFC. However, because LSP Ping sends traffic = off-box, an INFORMATIONAL RFC is appropriate. LSP Ping traffic might be = detected by counters, intrusion detection devices and firewalls. We = should document all of the OAM traffic that we generate. > =20 > Ron > =20 > =20 > From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:05 PM > To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari > Cc: Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > Understand documenting helpful techniques (more useful during = restoration/re-optimization cases) as informational RFC, but I believe = IETF usually > entertains proposals which has interoperability implications, AFAIK. > =20 > Which is what others are saying as well=E2=80=A6 > =20 > Thanks, > himanshu > =20 > From: Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com = ]=20 > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:23 PM > To: Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari > Cc: Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org = > Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > Thanks for not shooting me Sam but I=E2=80=99m really not the = messenger J > =20 > If there is a good proposal that covers set of LSP types with = [virtually] no imitations, then documenting such proposal has an value, = IMHO. > =20 > I=E2=80=99d agree that current contents of this document may not = provide sufficient value to be pursued as an informational document, but = I=E2=80=99m not hopeless that something could come out of this. > =20 > Thanks! > =20 > -Nobo > =20 > From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com = ]=20 > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:57 PM > To: Shahram Davari > Cc: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; = mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > Hi Nobo, > =20 > [without shooting the messenger] > =20 > In addition to what you listed, would like to see details on how this = ID will improve the performance at Egress should be clarified. > i.e. IP routing Vs OAM process (w/o FEC validation). Also, how this = model helps if reverse IP path is not available (inter-domain, reverse = path broken, non-routable ingress IP address) and to what gain? > =20 > There are many ways the LSP ping is being used, both as proprietary = and also part of eco system. > If we go by the logic that this ID is needed, we will have slew of new = ID=E2=80=99s detailing different usage models. > =20 > Hence, I totally agree with what Shahram and others have indicated. > =20 > -sam > =20 > On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Shahram Davari > wrote: > =20 > Hi, >=20 > Since the procedures in this draft generates and processes the test = packets on the same router and since other routers just forward = normally, why do we even need a draft? There is no interoperability = requirements, and each vendor can implement what they like. > =20 > Thanks > Shahram > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Nobo Akiya (nobo) > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:57 AM > To: Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > Hi, > =20 > Sort of summarizing what=E2=80=99s been stated but here=E2=80=99s my = observation of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping. > =20 > 1. LSP Ping and BFD MPLS already do what is being proposed. > 2. Ron needs a mechanism that is more efficient on egress LSRs, = with respect to resources and operational aspects. > 3. Any probe packet having destination IP address as the ingress = LSR has limitations in terms of how effective it can verify the DP = readiness. > 4. The proposal by Ron is limited to those LSPs that signal via = ordered mode (ex: LDP independent mode will not work) - same problem as = (3). > =20 > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to document what = has been implemented or what is being implemented, I=E2=80=99d like to = request followings to be captured in the document. > - limitations (3 and 4) so that readers are aware of them. > - usage of non-127/8 address as destination IP address in = MPLS echo request/reply deviates from RFC4379. > =20 > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate a = mechanism for efficient MPLS DP readiness test, and I=E2=80=99d like to = request that: > - requirements (2) are well captured. > - S-BFD be evaluated (as it addresses the efficiency = requirements and does not have limitations described by 3 and 4). > =20 > Himanshu, I have one comment in-line below. Please look for [NOBO]. > =20 > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Shah, Himanshu > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM > To: Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > This is exactly what I said at Mic. > We have been deploying MPLS for a while and if such DP active = verification was necessary, vendors have solved it without > standard specific solution, may that be BFD or self-ping. > =20 > One of the argument made was that client BFD session detects that = =E2=80=9Ctunnel is active but DP is not=E2=80=9D. > Does it imply there is some kind of UNI signaling going on between PE = and CE to indicate that tunnel has become > active, commence data? And the idea is that PE will refrain = notification until self-ping verify DP active? > =20 > If that is not the case then this technique is not even useful =E2=80=93= self ping is not actually causing the DP to become active, > If it doesn=E2=80=99t become active in the time window, what is PE = going to do? > =20 > [NOBO] That is another interesting aspect of the whole solution. = However, I believe that the problem scope of this document is much = smaller: ingress LSR to detect readiness of RSVP signaled LSP. For RSVP = signaled LSP, only the LSP that is =E2=80=9Cpassing the test=E2=80=9D = can be tied to the tunnel as the active LSP, so at least the ingress LSR = will not pump traffic into the tunnel without knowing whether DP = end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming that there are other ways to get to = the egress LSR from this ingress LSR, then the problem is solved. = Otherwise the ingress LSR will drop the traffic but the problem is = contained to that network node (i.e. packets are not traversing un-ready = LSP). > =20 > Thanks! > =20 > -Nobo > =20 > =20 > /himanshu > =20 > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Thomas D. Nadeau > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:43 AM > To: Sam Aldrin > Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments = from the mike > =20 > =20 > To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a = description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic = procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done for quite some time = using other means such as onboard automated scripts/actions after paths = are established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because I built = such a thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely. Also, as = Sam says, there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is = worth the additional complication (and required implementation + = associated delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means.=20 > =20 > The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves = whether or not this something we really need to standardize. > =20 > =E2=80=94Tom > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin = > wrote: > =20 > Hi Ron, > =20 > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of = questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. > =20 > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with = destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or = something else too? > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo = request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft = says, this will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is = forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to = process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to = ingress. > =20 > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its = destination, the > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > as it would forward any other packet." > =20 > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o = looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional = control plane of OAM process? > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the = ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back = at Ingress, correct? > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? > =20 > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your = responses. > =20 > cheers > -sam > =20 > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: > =20 > Folks >=20 > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP = echo packets or some other packet format? >=20 > Responses follow: >=20 > 1) Why not use BFD? >=20 > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping = session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second = after initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane = resources on the egress LSR.=20 >=20 > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity = over a longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate = in environments where BFD is too resource intensive. >=20 > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR = other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. >=20 > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming = control plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to = diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such = issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource = intensive. >=20 > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry = traffic in both directions? >=20 > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two = LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end = of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV = message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping = Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic = over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully >=20 > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some = other packet format? >=20 > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard = requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session = identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because = its Senders Handle is 64-bits long.=20 >=20 > I will update the draft to reflect this information. >=20 > Ron Bonica >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls = --Apple-Mail=_F1D605BD-80E2-4AA5-9F10-946219D7DA5F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Ron,

I do = not think the reason specifying it as LSP ping is = correct. 
Although you are using LSP ping Echo = reply like packet format, it is not LSP ping packet as it doesn't = confirm to RFC4379.
For ex: MPLS Echo Reply is only = sent when MPLS Echo Request is received. Neither does it detect any = dataplane failures, which is the title of the RFC. 

Hence, I am not = convinced that this ID warrants informational RFC, which is based on = RFC4379.

But = if you want to keep the ID out side the perview of RFC4379, then it = should be updated accordingly and discussion should be on those = lines.

cheers
-sam
On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:19 PM, = Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Shah,
 
Because there are no interoperability = implications, there is no need for a standards track RFC. However, = because LSP Ping sends traffic off-box, an INFORMATIONAL RFC is = appropriate. LSP Ping traffic might be detected by counters, intrusion = detection devices and firewalls. We should document all of the OAM = traffic that we generate.
 
          &nb= sp;            = ;            = Ron
 
 
From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 7:05 PM
To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Sam = Aldrin; Shahram Davari
Cc: Thomas Nadeau; Ronald = Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
 
Understand = documenting helpful techniques (more useful during = restoration/re-optimization cases) as informational RFC, but I believe = IETF usually
entertains proposals which has interoperability implications, = AFAIK.
 
Which is what others = are saying as well=E2=80=A6
 
Thanks,
himanshu
 
From: Nobo Akiya = (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 6:23 PM
To: Sam Aldrin; Shahram = Davari
Cc: Shah, Himanshu; Thomas = Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
 
Thanks for not = shooting me Sam but I=E2=80=99m really not the messenger J
 
If there is a good = proposal that covers set of LSP types with [virtually] no imitations, = then documenting such proposal has an value, IMHO.
 
I=E2=80=99d agree that current contents of this document may = not provide sufficient value to be pursued as an informational document, = but I=E2=80=99m not hopeless that something could come out of this.
 
Thanks!
 
-Nobo
 
From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 2:57 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shah, = Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike
 
Hi = Nobo,
 
[without shooting the = messenger]
 
In addition to what = you listed, would like to see details on how  this ID will improve = the performance at Egress should be clarified.
i.e. IP routing Vs = OAM process (w/o FEC validation). Also, how this model helps if reverse = IP path is not available (inter-domain, reverse path broken, = non-routable ingress IP address) and to what gain?
 
There are many ways = the LSP ping is being used, both as proprietary and also part of eco = system.
If we go = by the logic that this ID is needed, we will have slew of new ID=E2=80=99s= detailing different usage models.
 
Hence, I totally = agree with what Shahram and others have indicated.
 
-sam
 
On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> = wrote:
 
Hi,

Since the procedures in = this draft generates and processes the test packets on the same router = and since other routers just forward normally,  why do we even need = a draft? There is no interoperability requirements, and each vendor can = implement what they like.
 
Thanks
Shahram
 
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Nobo Akiya = (nobo)
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 10:57 AM
To: Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. = Nadeau; Sam Aldrin
Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the = mike
 
Hi,
 
Sort of summarizing what=E2=80=99s been stated but here=E2=80=99= s my observation of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping.
 
1.       LSP Ping and BFD MPLS already do what is = being proposed.
2.       Ron needs a mechanism that is more = efficient on egress LSRs, with respect to resources and operational = aspects.
3.       Any probe packet having destination IP = address as the ingress LSR has limitations in terms of how effective it = can verify the DP readiness.
4.       The proposal by Ron is limited to those = LSPs that signal via ordered mode (ex: LDP independent mode will not = work) - same problem as (3).
 
If = the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to document what has = been implemented or what is being implemented, I=E2=80=99d like to = request followings to be captured in the document.
-          limitations (3 and 4) so that readers are = aware of them.
-          usage of non-127/8 address as destination = IP address in MPLS echo request/reply deviates from RFC4379.
 
If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate a = mechanism for efficient MPLS DP readiness test, and I=E2=80=99d like to = request that:
-          requirements (2) are well = captured.
-          S-BFD be evaluated (as it addresses the = efficiency requirements and does not have limitations described by 3 and = 4).
 
Himanshu, I have one comment in-line below. Please look for = [NOBO].
 
 
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Shah, = Himanshu
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 10:36 AM
To: Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam = Aldrin
Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the = mike
 
This is exactly what I said at Mic.
We have been deploying MPLS for a = while and if such DP active verification was necessary, vendors have = solved it without
standard specific solution, may that be BFD or = self-ping.
 
One= of the argument made was that client BFD session detects that =E2=80=9Ctu= nnel is active but DP is not=E2=80=9D.
Does it imply there is some kind of UNI signaling = going on between PE and CE to indicate that tunnel has = become
active, commence data? And the idea is that PE will refrain = notification until self-ping verify DP active?
 
If that is not the case then this technique is not = even useful =E2=80=93 self ping is not actually causing the DP to become = active,
If = it doesn=E2=80=99t become active in the time window, what is PE going to = do?
 
[NOBO] That is another interesting aspect of the whole = solution. However, I believe that the problem scope of this document is = much smaller: ingress LSR to detect readiness of RSVP signaled LSP. For = RSVP signaled LSP, only the LSP that is =E2=80=9Cpassing the test=E2=80=9D= can be tied to the tunnel as the active LSP, so at least the ingress = LSR will not pump traffic into the tunnel without knowing whether DP = end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming that there are other ways to get to = the egress LSR from this ingress LSR, then the problem is solved. = Otherwise the ingress LSR will drop the traffic but the problem is = contained to that network node (i.e. packets are not traversing un-ready = LSP).
 
Thanks!
 
-Nobo
 
 
/himanshu
 
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Thomas D. = Nadeau
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 = 9:43 AM
To: Sam Aldrin
Cc: Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] = draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the = mike
 
          &nb= sp; 
          &nb= sp; To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a = description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic = procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done for quite some time = using other means such as onboard automated scripts/actions after paths = are established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because I built = such a thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely. =  Also, as Sam says, there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we = should ask is worth the additional complication (and required = implementation + associated delay/etc...) versus just using the existing = means. 
 
          &nb= sp; The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves whether = or not this something we really need to standardize.
 
          &nb= sp; =E2=80=94Tom
 
 
 
On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam = Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Hi Ron,
 
Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, = have few of questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response = in advance.
 
1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, = with destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), = correct?  Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR = or something else too?
2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or = something and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it = process? I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane = processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, = which means, the egress will have to process the packet i.e. look up the = ip address to send it back to ingress.
 
Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS = Echo message to its destination, the
   ingress LSR.  The egress LSR forwards the =
MPLS Echo message exactly
   as it would forward any other packet."
 
Could you explain, how egress =
forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header =
i.e. in the data plane and no additional control plane of OAM =
process?
3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at = the ingress then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request = back at Ingress, correct?
4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress?
 
Will followup with additional questions, if = any, based on your responses.
 
cheers
-sam
 
On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica = <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
 
Folks

At IETF 91, the following points were raised = with regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping:

1) Why not use BFD?
2) Self-ping does not = diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress = de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
3) How does Self = ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both = directions?
4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo = packets, as opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet format?

Responses follow:

1) Why not use BFD?

Self Ping is = an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping session emits = one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initiation. = Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the = egress LSR. 

By contrast, BFD is designed to verify = bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of time. Therefore, = MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environments where BFD is too resource = intensive.

2) Self-ping does not diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet.

Self Ping is = designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control plane = resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose = programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates = and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are = available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive.

3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional = LSP's readiness to carry traffic in both directions?

In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP = instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The = LSR at one end of the LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives = a RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self = Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards = traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates = successfully

4) Why does LSP Self Ping use = MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other packet format?

LSP Self Ping could have used many packet = formats. The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which = the 64 bit session identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was = convenient because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long. 

I will update the draft to reflect this information.

Ron Bonica

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= --Apple-Mail=_F1D605BD-80E2-4AA5-9F10-946219D7DA5F-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 01:40:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E901A006F for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:40:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w9SPEm4-tOcj for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0711.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::711]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C13871A007F for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc6 (86.184.62.161) by DBXPR07MB063.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.147.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:38:28 +0000 Message-ID: <010401d00893$9c078e60$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: , 'Pete Resnick' References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> <54739D84.4030703@qti.qualcomm.com> <080301d0082c$d5ced6b0$816c8410$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:38:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [86.184.62.161] X-ClientProxiedBy: AM3PR03CA026.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.191.154) To DBXPR07MB063.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.147.22) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7)(6); SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; X-Forefront-PRVS: 040655413E X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(51704005)(199003)(377454003)(13464003)(87286001)(31966008)(42186005)(40100003)(19580405001)(66066001)(61296003)(77096003)(62966003)(77156002)(87976001)(93886004)(95666004)(105586002)(89996001)(1556002)(99396003)(14496001)(120916001)(97736003)(15975445006)(122386002)(19580395003)(47776003)(64706001)(76176999)(84392001)(50986999)(20776003)(101416001)(102836001)(44716002)(62236002)(92566001)(104166001)(21056001)(230783001)(93916002)(33646002)(92726001)(4396001)(50466002)(107046002)(81816999)(81686999)(88136002)(50226001)(46102003)(44736004)(23756003)(86362001)(116806002)(106356001)(1456002)(74416001)(7726001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; H:pc6; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:nov; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; LANG:en; Received-SPF: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Authentication-Results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ietfc@btconnect.com; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/IguE1M6caFdg210MB1HTVFmoWj8 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:40:39 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Pete Resnick'" Cc: ; ; "'The IESG'" Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 9:23 PM > > I think we can get a better word than "focus" in that last sentence, > > Suggestions? > I have antipenumbrify, but that is probably not at the top of your list. locus Tom Petch > > > but, even if we can't, this addresses the blocking portion of my comments. > > Change not yet made. > I'm just letting this soak in case the WG comments. > > A > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Nov 25 02:55:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73991A00C0; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:55:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tKdp4oPSUR1b; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:55:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 868871A00B9; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:55:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAPAtL8D011866; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:55:21 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAPAtJY8011807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:55:20 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Pete Resnick'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> <5473E21B.7050409@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5473E21B.7050409@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:55:17 -0000 Message-ID: <095901d0089e$4d6516f0$e82f44d0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHQtasTR6x4evBKOlX4y87gV3bkbQGhueZ7AiJNl26cUbDXgA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21128.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--22.544-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--22.544-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: HXSqh3WYKfus7uBvvd6AmfHkpkyUphL9Ud7Bjfo+5jSOtR/F4zYXtNLu X2hj/M7UXP2KAb8Gv6zAgeaK+M0v4vlXbaRPf/X2BEfU2vugRF0fXzVgO0hVqofAYSb4KlgZYHn cey+bMmFoGUTVc0GqmBMNNbRFWNSFQpjkZW1zh69buDP8ZuCmXn+ogtHzaKWZPoheSAdQJcvBGB 5yWcRYfY7yOG9w/jJ/K4GiJxRBNsE2ACKRV745AXFpe+85TnNufS0Ip2eEHny+qryzYw2E8LLn+ 0Vm71Lcq7rFUcuGp/G8QIu4z6HhEH7cGd19dSFd Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/d75sOBNL_g4OXanMMWeZ0SViTnY Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:55:25 -0000 All changes made. Time to clear, Pete? A > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: 25 November 2014 01:58 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Pete Resnick'; 'The IESG' > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and > COMMENT) > > Adrian, > > possibly nit picking, but ... > > On 2014-11-25 01:00, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > I had some discussion with Pete about this on jabber. > > The problem comes because it appears from the first sentence that the MPLS > WG might be making decisions and documenting them outside the responsibility > of TEAS to act as the focus for coordination. > > Therefore, I propose the following modification... > > > > - Coordinate the work on RSVP-TE with CCAMP and TEAS. In the cases > > where there is an overlap, generic parts will be done by the TEAS > > working group, MPLS data plane specific parts will be done by the > > MPLS working group, and support for any other specific data planes > > will be done by the CCAMP working group. The TEAS working group acts > > as the focus for coordinating this work, and the MPLS working group > > OLD > > will note agreements about work to be done in this working group > > through milestones in this charter. > > NEW > will track agreements about work to be done by the MPLS working > group as milestones in the working group charter. > > /Loa > > > > Adrian > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 25 05:39:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F961A1A02; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:39:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WwDuD1Ek-6vV; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EA81A1A0B; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:38:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125133858.1536.24122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:38:58 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fdLT8ngRUonl-a1cS3RjMB4boMs Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Benoit Claise's No Objection on charter-ietf-mpls-06-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:39:00 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-mpls-06-06: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Same remark as for the TEAS charter. OLD: - Define YANG models and MIB modules for MPLS working group related solutions. Coordinate with the LIME and NETMOD working groups for core YANG models. NEW: - Data models (YANG and MIB modules may be considered.) for MPLS working group related solutions. Coordinate with the LIME and NETMOD working groups for core YANG models. From nobody Tue Nov 25 05:44:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185641A1A28; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:44:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SoezRnRtVrTS; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 951011A1A2D; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAPDifus004807; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:44:41 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAPDietZ004795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:44:41 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Benoit Claise'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20141125133858.1536.24122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141125133858.1536.24122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:44:37 -0000 Message-ID: <09af01d008b5$f5198ea0$df4cabe0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHy6CHab9oXV6D4vxp29LJfFXVAZJwrm1Ww Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21128.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--9.339-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--9.339-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: oTBA/+sdKab0GGSQQaBfEfHkpkyUphL9Ud7Bjfo+5jSOtR/F4zYXtNLu X2hj/M7U0OMx8k25AqgQzbMQs/CpuYT3OBUyTeleMGAKZueP0mY6En2bnefhoJC2/laM/GzdqUh rlcYQ3LF57OZgMiSXUJvam7E/mkYpM8CewA5GpJ/0hv/rD7WVZGv34qCfZeB4PcFkClcmQNuhp+ nLTQqklx+OzOXzDeVBFwAp+0vnSYQ/mJEvNFL+dZ4CIKY/Hg3AtOt1ofVlaoLUHQeTVDUrItRnE QCUU+jzjoczmuoPCq0cbZlyfRUhr13bmezbA8hjNEk5r7E/f7WSPDpAiuJ6EVeTXw71MLKYQwym txuJ6y0= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/nEcX2hg_cP1fcPsMmh9saNFM0vk Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Benoit Claise's No Objection on charter-ietf-mpls-06-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:44:51 -0000 Text change made A > -----Original Message----- > From: iesg [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benoit Claise > Sent: 25 November 2014 13:39 > To: The IESG > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Benoit Claise's No Objection on charter-ietf-mpls-06-06: (with > COMMENT) > > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-mpls-06-06: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Same remark as for the TEAS charter. > > OLD: > - Define YANG models and MIB modules for MPLS working group related > solutions. Coordinate with the LIME and NETMOD working groups for > core YANG models. > > NEW: > - Data models (YANG and MIB modules may be considered.) for MPLS > working group related solutions. Coordinate with the LIME and NETMOD > working groups for core YANG models. From nobody Tue Nov 25 08:24:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107101ACD23; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:24:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R0TiWa_u14H7; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81721ACD54; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:24:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Pete Resnick" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125162435.24956.82390.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:24:35 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/4Hu-paW1l-G002Rn84BoahmbnZE Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Pete Resnick's No Objection on charter-ietf-mpls-06-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:24:46 -0000 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-mpls-06-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Some bits I think should be clarified, but can wait until external review: The working group's responsibilities include procedures and protocols What do you mean by "procedures"? Operational guidance? - Determine MPLS-specific aspects of traffic engineering including for multi-areas/multi-AS scenarios in cooperation with the TEAS working group. As with the CCAMP charter, I'm a bit mystified by the word "Determine" here. What exactly does the WG do on this point? From nobody Tue Nov 25 08:32:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAB91ACDB8; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:32:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 33SdRAQDq1Og; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA4631ACDBB; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:32:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1416933133; x=1448469133; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0Dj126yG8tWv+VWOU3g9G4F49axtMNbt25AYsAsUN1k=; b=eF6fjSA4oYwjby2sYzuiLghcjy/pO3tTLzMtchKSjcRSOalIWqee6nIq DLst24psxXo1pvDNnMh1xgN4B2ww08BES9XDhfS5Uwy0YtmpXJBXFLhAp RD1W27BRrQsYXZ20yImw1ZWs+y9m5rZwUOFlMt084drpmxzq9OC0qxdpn w=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5600,1067,7632"; a="79535702" Received: from ironmsg02-lv.qualcomm.com ([10.47.202.183]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 25 Nov 2014 08:32:12 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,456,1413270000"; d="scan'208";a="31104822" Received: from nasanexm01f.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.32]) by ironmsg02-lv.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 25 Nov 2014 08:32:13 -0800 Received: from resnick2.qualcomm.com (10.80.80.8) by NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.913.22; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:32:11 -0800 Message-ID: <5474AF0A.9090405@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:32:10 -0600 From: Pete Resnick User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100630 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <20141124162932.15799.94362.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <075301d00808$31bc77e0$953567a0$@olddog.co.uk> <5473E21B.7050409@pi.nu> <095901d0089e$4d6516f0$e82f44d0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <095901d0089e$4d6516f0$e82f44d0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.80.80.8] X-ClientProxiedBy: NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) To NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/08GrMIFG5g983NebsLbVXwlDDpk Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, 'The IESG' Subject: Re: [mpls] Pete Resnick's Block on charter-ietf-mpls-06-04: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:32:49 -0000 On 11/25/14 4:55 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > All changes made. Time to clear, Pete? > As soon as I was awake and at the keyboard. Done. pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 From nobody Tue Nov 25 13:29:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9AC1A88FA; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I1IDkwjrEigr; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D941A878C; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125212821.31487.99815.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:21 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/xLktHFrgGMMu4cIuAU_9tV-pEVw Cc: mpls WG Subject: [mpls] WG Review: Multiprotocol Label Switching (mpls) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:28:23 -0000 The Multiprotocol Label Switching (mpls) working group in the Routing Area of the IETF is undergoing rechartering. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg at ietf.org) by 2014-12-02. Multiprotocol Label Switching (mpls) ------------------------------------------------ Current Status: Active WG Chairs: Loa Andersson George Swallow Ross Callon Secretaries: Martin Vigoureux Assigned Area Director: Adrian Farrel Mailing list Address: mpls@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/ Charter: The MPLS working group is responsible for standardizing technology for label switching and for the implementation of label-switched paths over packet based link-level technologies. The working group's responsibilities include procedures and protocols for the distribution of labels between Label Switching Routers (LSRs), MPLS packet encapsulation, and for Operation, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) including the necessary management objects expressed as YANG models or MIB modules. The current WG focus areas and work items are: - Maintain existing MPLS requirements, mechanisms, and protocols, as currently documented in RFCs, in coordination with other working groups that work in overlapping areas including the BESS, BFD, CCAMP, OPSAWG, PALS, SPRING, and TEAS working groups. - Evolve key MPLS protocols, including LDP, tLDP, mLDP, RSVP-TE for packet networks, and LSP Ping to meet new requirements. - Document MPLS-specific aspects of traffic engineering including for multi-areas/multi-AS scenarios in cooperation with the TEAS working group. - Coordinate the work on RSVP-TE with CCAMP and TEAS. In the cases where there is an overlap, generic parts will be done by the TEAS working group, MPLS data plane specific parts will be done by the MPLS working group, and support for any other specific data planes will be done by the CCAMP working group. The TEAS working group acts as the hub for coordinating this work, and the MPLS working group will track agreements about work to be done in this working group through milestones in this charter. - Define data models for MPLS working group related solutions. YANG models and MIB modules may be considered. Coordinate with the LIME and NETMOD working groups for core YANG models. - Define an overall OAM framework for topology-driven, traffic engineered, and transport profile MPLS applications. - Define the necessary extensions for MPLS key protocols for dual- stack and IPv6-only networks. - Document current implementation practices for MPLS load sharing. - Document mechanisms for securing MPLS protocols and data plane. - Document mechanisms for adding multi-topology support to existing MPLS protocols. - Define the necessary protection protocols and scenarios for transport profile MPLS applications - Document use cases for MPLS protocols. Milestones: TBD From nobody Tue Nov 25 13:31:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22E51A88FF; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y974O-CRS9ZG; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612F51A8902; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125212856.1366.9306.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:28:56 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PXSqXzWMw94LNTnqdrXIk9xU-2I Subject: [mpls] Telechat update notice: X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:28:58 -0000 Telechat date has been changed to 2014-12-04 from 2014-11-25 ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ From nobody Tue Nov 25 13:31:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC881A878C for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xxs_QgbItsZ8; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C886D1A88FF; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141125212902.362.55513.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:02 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/yPZ862hhU3pvWeaH-scEC3bP7tU Subject: [mpls] State changed: charter-ietf-mpls-06-08 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:29:09 -0000 State changed to External review. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mpls/ From nobody Tue Nov 25 15:28:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635761A1F73 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:28:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OCD8j9U-16uR for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:28:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0788.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:788]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12CC61A0087 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:28:06 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.6]) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.178]) with mapi id 15.01.0026.003; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:28:06 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: Sam Aldrin Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike Thread-Index: AdAEFvzCSrFZUMLCQqamftgXcvBWWgAWv9EAABeO84AAAd+rAAAHBYeAAACjnYAAAXHZgAAHNAUAAAF0YYAALnL+UACtBH8AAB42Y1A= Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:28:05 +0000 Message-ID: <81a02ced094e46ebac37930d6623f172@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> 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"mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:28:36 -0000 --_000_81a02ced094e46ebac37930d6623f172CO1PR05MB442namprd05pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U2FtIGFuZCBDYXJsb3MsDQoNCllvdSBhcmUgY29ycmVjdCBpbiB0aGF0IExTUCBTZWxmLXBpbmcg aGFzIHZlcnkgbGl0dGxlIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggTFNQIFBpbmcgW1JGQyA0Mzc5XS4gSW4gZmFjdCwg YXNpZGUgZnJvbSBib3Jyb3dpbmcgdGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UgZm9ybWF0LCBpdCBoYXMgKm5vdGhpbmcq IHRvIGRvIHdpdGggUkZDIDQzNzldIQ0KDQpSYXRpb25hbGUgZm9sbG93czoNCg0KDQotICAgICAg ICAgIExTUCBTZWxmLXBpbmcgbWVzc2FnZXMgZG8gbm90IGNhcnJ5IHRoZSByb3V0ZXIgYWxlcnQg bWVzc2FnZQ0KDQotICAgICAgICAgIFRyYW5zaXQgYW5kIGVncmVzcyBMU1JzIGRvbuKAmXQgZXhh 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.104.236 with SMTP id a99mr40613806qgf.56.1416959770168; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.65.42 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <81a02ced094e46ebac37930d6623f172@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <8B302482-FCF4-41C4-8407-30782EF0A37B@gmail.com> <81a02ced094e46ebac37930d6623f172@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:56:10 -0800 Message-ID: From: Sam Aldrin To: Ronald Bonica Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134f6e6c311f70508b7a74e Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/RcBEmtFvIlrMTn2IO5mvOEtUrek Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:56:18 -0000 --001a1134f6e6c311f70508b7a74e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, Thanks for the reply. [sorry for the top post] Glad that we are on the same page. Now that we are clear that this ID is not related to RFC4379 but borrows the model and format of packet structure, etc, I do not have a problem as such, provided the draft text is worded that way. Not just for the reasoning purposes, but adds clarity to what you intend to do and not confuse readers with LSP ping. W.r.t. Request / Reply, I prefer to have new terms defined and identify them in the terminology section. For ex: 'Self Ping Message' or something else. RFC4379 may not define different message formats for Echo Request and Echo Reply, it clearly identifies those message types. cheers -sam On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Sam and Carlos, > > > > You are correct in that LSP Self-ping has very little to do with LSP Ping > [RFC 4379]. In fact, aside from borrowing the message format, it has * > *nothing** to do with RFC 4379]! > > > > Rationale follows: > > > > - LSP Self-ping messages do not carry the router alert message > > - Transit and egress LSRs don=E2=80=99t examine or process LSP P= ing > messages; they simply forward them > > - Only the ingress LSR listens for LSP Self Ping messages > > - The ingress LSR listens for LSP Self Ping messages on a > different port than it listens for LSP Ping messages > > - The ingess LSR never responds to an LSP Self Ping message. > > > > I will make this explicit in the next version of the draft. > > > > Sam, > > > > You raise another point that Loa also raised in his chairs review. RFC > 4379 does not specify Echo Request and Echo Reply messages. It specifies = a > single Echo message with a Message Type field (request or reply). In > draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping, I retain that terminology. However, Loa > suggests that I refer to an Echo Reply message for clarity. I tend to agr= ee > with Loa. What do you think? > > > > > Ron > > > > *From:* Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:49 AM > *To:* Ronald Bonica > *Cc:* Shah, Himanshu; Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shahram Davari; Thomas Nadeau; > mpls@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > Ron, > > > > I do not think the reason specifying it as LSP ping is correct. > > Although you are using LSP ping Echo reply like packet format, it is not > LSP ping packet as it doesn't confirm to RFC4379. > > For ex: MPLS Echo Reply is only sent when MPLS Echo Request is received. > Neither does it detect any dataplane failures, which is the title of the > RFC. > > > > Hence, I am not convinced that this ID warrants informational RFC, which > is based on RFC4379. > > > > But if you want to keep the ID out side the perview of RFC4379, then it > should be updated accordingly and discussion should be on those lines. > > > > cheers > > -sam > > On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > > > > Shah, > > > > Because there are no interoperability implications, there is no need for = a > standards track RFC. However, because LSP Ping sends traffic off-box, an > INFORMATIONAL RFC is appropriate. LSP Ping traffic might be detected by > counters, intrusion detection devices and firewalls. We should document a= ll > of the OAM traffic that we generate. > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com ] > *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:05 PM > *To:* Nobo Akiya (nobo); Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari > *Cc:* Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > *Understand documenting helpful techniques (more useful during > restoration/re-optimization cases) as informational RFC, but I believe IE= TF > usually* > > *entertains proposals which has interoperability implications, AFAIK.* > > > > *Which is what others are saying as well=E2=80=A6* > > > > *Thanks,* > > *himanshu* > > > > *From:* Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com ] > *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:23 PM > *To:* Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari > *Cc:* Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > Thanks for not shooting me Sam but I=E2=80=99m really not the messenger J > > > > If there is a good proposal that covers set of LSP types with [virtually] > no imitations, then documenting such proposal has an value, IMHO. > > > > I=E2=80=99d agree that current contents of this document may not provide > sufficient value to be pursued as an informational document, but I=E2=80= =99m not > hopeless that something could come out of this. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -Nobo > > > > *From:* Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com ] > *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:57 PM > *To:* Shahram Davari > *Cc:* Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; > mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > Hi Nobo, > > > > [without shooting the messenger] > > > > In addition to what you listed, would like to see details on how this ID > will improve the performance at Egress should be clarified. > > i.e. IP routing Vs OAM process (w/o FEC validation). Also, how this model > helps if reverse IP path is not available (inter-domain, reverse path > broken, non-routable ingress IP address) and to what gain? > > > > There are many ways the LSP ping is being used, both as proprietary and > also part of eco system. > > If we go by the logic that this ID is needed, we will have slew of new > ID=E2=80=99s detailing different usage models. > > > > Hence, I totally agree with what Shahram and others have indicated. > > > > -sam > > > > On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Shahram Davari wrote= : > > > > Hi, > > > Since the procedures in this draft generates and processes the test > packets on the same router and since other routers just forward normally, > why do we even need a draft? There is no interoperability requirements, > and each vendor can implement what they like. > > > > Thanks > > Shahram > > > > *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Nobo Akiya (nobo) > *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:57 AM > *To:* Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > *Cc:* Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > Hi, > > > > Sort of summarizing what=E2=80=99s been stated but here=E2=80=99s my obse= rvation of > draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping. > > > > 1. LSP Ping and BFD MPLS already do what is being proposed. > > 2. Ron needs a mechanism that is more efficient on egress LSRs, > with respect to resources and operational aspects. > > 3. Any probe packet having destination IP address as the ingress > LSR has limitations in terms of how effective it can verify the DP > readiness. > > 4. The proposal by Ron is limited to those LSPs that signal via > ordered mode (ex: LDP independent mode will not work) - same problem as (= 3). > > > > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to document what has > been implemented or what is being implemented, I=E2=80=99d like to reques= t > followings to be captured in the document. > > - limitations (3 and 4) so that readers are aware of them. > > - usage of non-127/8 address as destination IP address in MPLS > echo request/reply deviates from RFC4379. > > > > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate a mechanism > for efficient MPLS DP readiness test, and I=E2=80=99d like to request tha= t: > > - requirements (2) are well captured. > > - S-BFD be evaluated (as it addresses the efficiency > requirements and does not have limitations described by 3 and 4). > > > > Himanshu, I have one comment in-line below. Please look for [NOBO]. > > > > > > *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Shah, Himanshu > *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM > *To:* Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > *Cc:* Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > *This is exactly what I said at Mic.* > > *We have been deploying MPLS for a while and if such DP active > verification was necessary, vendors have solved it without* > > *standard specific solution, may that be BFD or self-ping.* > > > > *One of the argument made was that client BFD session detects that =E2=80= =9Ctunnel > is active but DP is not=E2=80=9D.* > > *Does it imply there is some kind of UNI signaling going on between PE an= d > CE to indicate that tunnel has become* > > *active, commence data? And the idea is that PE will refrain notification > until self-ping verify DP active?* > > > > *If that is not the case then this technique is not even useful =E2=80=93= self > ping is not actually causing the DP to become active,* > > *If it doesn=E2=80=99t become active in the time window, what is PE going= to do?* > > > > [NOBO] That is another interesting aspect of the whole solution. However, > I believe that the problem scope of this document is much smaller: ingres= s > LSR to detect readiness of RSVP signaled LSP. For RSVP signaled LSP, only > the LSP that is =E2=80=9Cpassing the test=E2=80=9D can be tied to the tun= nel as the active > LSP, so at least the ingress LSR will not pump traffic into the tunnel > without knowing whether DP end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming that ther= e > are other ways to get to the egress LSR from this ingress LSR, then the > problem is solved. Otherwise the ingress LSR will drop the traffic but th= e > problem is contained to that network node (i.e. packets are not traversin= g > un-ready LSP). > > > > Thanks! > > > > -Nobo > > > > > > */himanshu* > > > > *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Thomas D. Nadeau > *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:43 AM > *To:* Sam Aldrin > *Cc:* Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments > from the mike > > > > > > To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a > description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic procedure= s > of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done for quite some time using other > means such as onboard automated scripts/actions after paths are > established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because I built such= a > thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely. Also, as Sam say= s, > there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should ask is worth the > additional complication (and required implementation + associated > delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means. > > > > The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves whether > or not this something we really need to standardize. > > > > =E2=80=94Tom > > > > > > > > On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin > wrote: > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, hence, have few of > questions and need clarifications. Appreciate your response in advance. > > > > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo request, with > destination IP address to self, and forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), > correct? Is this the only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or > something else too? > > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something and the Echo reques= t > ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it process? I see that draft says, this > will avoid control plane processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from > ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to process the packe= t > i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to ingress. > > > > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message to its > destination, the > > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly > > as it would forward any other packet." > > > > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o loo= king up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional contr= ol plane of OAM process? > > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back at the ingress > then it is failure, rather it should receive Echo Request back at Ingress= , > correct? > > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress? > > > > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based on your responses. > > > > cheers > > -sam > > > > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote: > > > > Folks > > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to > draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: > > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR > other than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry > traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo > packets or some other packet format? > > Responses follow: > > 1) Why not use BFD? > > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping > session emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second afte= r > initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resource= s > on the egress LSR. > > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a > longer period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in > environments where BFD is too resource intensive. > > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other > than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control > plane resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose > programming errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates > and forwards the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are availab= le > [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive. > > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry > traffic in both directions? > > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP > Self Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the > LSP initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LS= R > at the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a > RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the LSP only after > the LSP Self Ping session terminates successfully > > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other > packet format? > > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard > requirement was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session > identifier could be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because > its Senders Handle is 64-bits long. > > I will update the draft to reflect this information. > > Ron Bonica > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > --001a1134f6e6c311f70508b7a74e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron,

Thanks for the reply.

[sorry for the top post]

Glad that= we are on the same page.=C2=A0
Now that we are clear that this I= D is not related to RFC4379 but borrows the model and format of packet stru= cture, etc, I do not have a problem as such, provided the draft text is wor= ded that way.
Not just for the reasoning purposes, but adds clari= ty to what you intend to do and not confuse readers with LSP ping.
W.r.t. Request / Reply, I prefer to have new terms defined and identify t= hem in the terminology section. For ex: 'Self Ping Message' or some= thing else.

RFC4379 may not define different messa= ge formats for Echo Request and Echo Reply, it clearly identifies those mes= sage types.

cheers
-sam


On Tue,= Nov 25, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Sam and Carlos,<= /p>

=C2=A0

You are correct in that LSP Self-ping= has very little to do with LSP Ping [RFC 4379]. In fact, aside from borrow= ing the message format, it has *nothing* to do with RFC 4379]!

=C2=A0

Rationale follows:

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 LSP Self-ping messages do not ca= rry the router alert message

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Transit and egress LSRs don=E2= =80=99t examine or process LSP Ping messages; they simply forward them

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Only the ingress LSR listens for= LSP Self Ping messages

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The ingress LSR listens for LSP = Self Ping messages on a different port than it listens for LSP Ping message= s

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The ingess LSR never responds to= an LSP Self Ping message.

=C2=A0

I will make this explicit in the next= version of the draft.

=C2=A0

Sam,

=C2=A0

You raise another point that Loa also= raised in his chairs review. RFC 4379 does not specify Echo Request and Ec= ho Reply messages. It specifies a single Echo message with a Message Type field (request or reply). In draft-bonica-mpls= -self-ping, I retain that terminology. However, Loa suggests that I refer t= o an Echo Reply message for clarity. I tend to agree with Loa. What do you = think?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Ron

=C2=A0

From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:49 AM
To: Ronald Bonica
Cc: Shah, Himanshu; Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shahram Davari; Thomas Nadeau= ; mpls@ietf.org


Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comment= s from the mike

=C2=A0

Ron,

=C2=A0

I do not think the reason specifying it as LSP ping = is correct.=C2=A0

Although you are using LSP ping Echo reply like pack= et format, it is not LSP ping packet as it doesn't confirm to RFC4379.<= u>

For ex: MPLS Echo Reply is only sent when MPLS Echo = Request is received. Neither does it detect any dataplane failures, which i= s the title of the RFC.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Hence, I am not convinced that this ID warrants info= rmational RFC, which is based on RFC4379.

=C2=A0

But if you want to keep the ID out side the perview = of RFC4379, then it should be updated accordingly and discussion should be = on those lines.

=C2=A0

cheers

-sam

On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

=C2=A0

Shah,

=C2=A0

Because there are no interoperability= implications, there is no need for a standards track RFC. However, because= LSP Ping sends traffic off-box, an INFORMATIONAL RFC is appropriate. LSP Ping traffic might be detected by counters, intrus= ion detection devices and firewalls. We should document all of the OAM traf= fic that we generate.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ron

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0Shah= , Himanshu [mailto:hsha= h@ciena.com]=C2=A0
Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:05 PM
To:=C2=A0Nobo Akiya (nobo); Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari<= br> Cc:=C2=A0Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org
Subject:=C2=A0RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: R= esponse to comments from the mike

=C2=A0

Understand documenting helpful techniqu= es (more useful during restoration/re-optimization cases) as informational = RFC, but I believe IETF usually

entertains proposals which has interope= rability implications, AFAIK.

=C2=A0

Which is what others are saying as well= =E2=80=A6

=C2=A0

Thanks,

himanshu

=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com]=C2=A0 Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:23 PM
To:=C2=A0Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari
Cc:=C2=A0Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica;<= span>=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org
Subject:=C2=A0RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: R= esponse to comments from the mike

=C2=A0

Thanks for not shootin= g me Sam but I=E2=80=99m really not the messenger=C2=A0= J

=C2=A0

If there is a good pro= posal that covers set of LSP types with [virtually] no imitations, then doc= umenting such proposal has an value, IMHO.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d agree that= current contents of this document may not provide sufficient value to be p= ursued as an informational document, but I=E2=80=99m not hopeless that something could come out of this.

=C2=A0

Thanks!<= u>

=C2=A0

-Nobo=

=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]=C2=A0<= /span>
Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:57 PM
To:=C2=A0Shahram Davari
Cc:=C2=A0Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nade= au; Ronald Bonica;=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: R= esponse to comments from the mike

=C2=A0

Hi Nobo,

=C2=A0

[without shooting the messenger= ]

=C2=A0

In addition to what you listed,= would like to see details on how =C2=A0this ID will improve the performanc= e at Egress should be clarified.

i.e. IP routing Vs OAM process = (w/o FEC validation). Also, how this model helps if reverse IP path is not = available (inter-domain, reverse path broken, non-routable ingress IP addre= ss) and to what gain?

=C2=A0

There are many ways the LSP pin= g is being used, both as proprietary and also part of eco system.=

If we go by the logic that this= ID is needed, we will have slew of new ID=E2=80=99s detailing different us= age models.

=C2=A0

Hence, I totally agree with wha= t Shahram and others have indicated.

=C2=A0

-sam

=C2=A0

On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, S= hahram Davari <= davari@broadcom.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Hi,


Since the procedures in this draft generates and processes the test packets= on the same router and since other routers just forward normally, =C2=A0wh= y do we even need a draft? There is no interoperability requirements, and e= ach vendor can implement what they like.

=C2=A0

Thanks

Shahram<= u>

=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]=C2=A0<= b>On Behalf Of=C2=A0Nobo Akiya (nobo)
Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:57 AM
To:=C2=A0Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin Cc:=C2=A0Ronald Bonica;=C2=A0mpls@iet= f.org
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: R= esponse to comments from the mike

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

Sort of summarizing wh= at=E2=80=99s been stated but here=E2=80=99s my observation of draft-bonica-= mpls-self-ping.

=C2=A0

1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0LSP Ping and BFD MPLS already do what is being proposed.<= /p>

2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron needs a mechanism that is more efficient on egress LSRs, with respect to r= esources and operational aspects.

3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Any probe packet having destination IP address as the ingress LSR has limitati= ons in terms of how effective it can verify the DP readiness.=

4.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The proposal by Ron is limited to those LSPs that signal via ordered mode (ex:= LDP independent mode will not work) - same problem as (3).

=C2=A0

If the intent of draft= -bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to document what has been implemented or wha= t is being implemented, I=E2=80=99d like to request followings to be captured in the document.

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0limitations (3 and 4) so that readers are aware of them.

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0usage of non-127/8 address as destination IP address in MPLS echo request/reply = deviates from RFC4379.

=C2=A0

If the intent of draft= -bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate a mechanism for efficient MPLS DP rea= diness test, and I=E2=80=99d like to request that:

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0requirements (2) are well captured.

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0S-BFD be evaluated (as it addresses the efficiency requirements and does not hav= e limitations described by 3 and 4).

=C2=A0

Himanshu, I have one c= omment in-line below. Please look for [NOBO].

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]=C2=A0<= b>On Behalf Of=C2=A0Shah, Himanshu
Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM
To:=C2=A0Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin
Cc:=C2=A0Ronald Bonica;=C2=A0mpls@iet= f.org
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: R= esponse to comments from the mike

=C2=A0

This is exactly what I s= aid at Mic.

We have been deploying M= PLS for a while and if such DP active verification was necessary, vendors h= ave solved it without

standard specific soluti= on, may that be BFD or self-ping.

=C2=A0=

One of the argument made= was that client BFD session detects that =E2=80=9Ctunnel is active but DP = is not=E2=80=9D.

Does it imply there is s= ome kind of UNI signaling going on between PE and CE to indicate that tunne= l has become

active, commence data? A= nd the idea is that PE will refrain notification until self-ping verify DP = active?

=C2=A0=

If that is not the case = then this technique is not even useful =E2=80=93 self ping is not actually = causing the DP to become active,

If it doesn=E2=80=99t be= come active in the time window, what is PE going to do?

=C2=A0=

[NOBO] That is another= interesting aspect of the whole solution. However, I believe that the prob= lem scope of this document is much smaller: ingress LSR to detect readiness of RSVP signaled LSP. For RSVP signaled LSP, only = the LSP that is =E2=80=9Cpassing the test=E2=80=9D can be tied to the tunne= l as the active LSP, so at least the ingress LSR will not pump traffic into= the tunnel without knowing whether DP end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming that there are other ways to get to the egress L= SR from this ingress LSR, then the problem is solved. Otherwise the ingress= LSR will drop the traffic but the problem is contained to that network nod= e (i.e. packets are not traversing un-ready LSP).

=C2=A0

Thanks!<= u>

=C2=A0

-Nobo=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

/himanshu<= /u>

=C2=A0=

From:=C2=A0mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]=C2=A0<= b>On Behalf Of=C2=A0Thomas D. Nadeau
Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:43 AM
To:=C2=A0Sam Aldrin
Cc:=C2=A0Ronald Bonica;=C2=A0mpls@iet= f.org
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: R= esponse to comments from the mike

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0To me what is described in= the draft seems like this is a description of a device/vendor feature that automates the basic procedures of 4379/etc.. Th= is can and has been done for quite some time using other means such as onbo= ard automated scripts/actions after paths are established/signaled. I say t= his not to be glib, but because I built such a thing about 10 years ago that has been deployed widely.=C2= =A0 Also, as Sam says, there is some deviation from RFC4379 which we should= ask is worth the additional complication (and required implementation + as= sociated delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The bottom line is that we= should be asking ourselves whether or not this something we really need to standardize.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=E2=80=94Tom=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10= :28 PM, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wr= ote:

=C2=A0

Hi Ron,

=C2=A0

Still trying to understand the = need for the draft, hence, have few of questions and need clarifications. A= ppreciate your response in advance.

=C2=A0

1. (clarification q) The Ingres= s LSR sends the Echo request, with destination IP address to self, and forw= ards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct?=C2=A0 Is this the only thing which ide= ntifies the Ingress LSR or something else too?

2. What happens if there is LSP= breakage or something and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn&#= 39;t it process? I see that draft says, this will avoid control plane proce= ssing. How so? The packet is forwarded from ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to process the packet= i.e. look up the ip address to send it back to ingress.

=C2=A0

Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS E= cho message to its destination, the

=C2=A0=C2=A0 ingress=
 LSR.=C2=A0 The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 as it w=
ould forward any other packet."
=C2=A0=

Could you explain, h=
ow egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP =
header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control plane of OAM proces=
s?

3. Is the assertion that, if Ec= ho Reply is received back at the ingress then it is failure, rather it shou= ld receive Echo Request back at Ingress, correct?

4. Why can't you use LSP pr= oxy ping to self via Egress?

=C2=A0

Will followup with additional q= uestions, if any, based on your responses.

=C2=A0

cheers

-sam

=C2=A0

On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ro= nald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:=

=C2=A0

Folks

At IETF 91, the following points were raised with regard to draft-bonica-mp= ls-self-ping:

1) Why not use BFD?
2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming errors in which an LSR other= than the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.
3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry t= raffic in both directions?
4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to ICMP echo p= ackets or some other packet format?

Responses follow:

1) Why not use BFD?

Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A typical Self Ping sessio= n emits one or two packets and terminates less than one second after initia= tion. Self-ping requires no configuration or control plane resources on the= egress LSR.=C2=A0

By contrast, BFD is designed to verify bi-directional connectivity over a l= onger period of time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in environme= nts where BFD is too resource intensive.

2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in which an LSR other tha= n the egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet.

Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness without consuming control pla= ne resources on the egress router. It is not designed to diagnose programmi= ng errors in which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates and forward= s the packet. Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource inte= nsive.

3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's readiness to carry t= raffic in both directions?

In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP instantiates two LSP S= elf Ping sessions, one at each end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LS= P initiates a self ping session when it receives a RESV message. The LSR at= the other end of the LSP initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV message. Each LSP endpoint forwar= ds traffic over the LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates suc= cessfully

4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as opposed to some other p= acket format?

LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. The only hard requiremen= t was to have one 64-bit field in which the 64 bit session identifier could= be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient because its Senders Handle= is 64-bits long.=C2=A0

I will update the draft to reflect this information.

Ron Bonica

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

=C2=A0

_______________________________= ________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

=C2=A0


--001a1134f6e6c311f70508b7a74e-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 17:12:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D972C1A88BA; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:11:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0F6B4ZDIRH9t; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:11:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373581A6FAC; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:11:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141126011152.13044.93372.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:11:52 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/DVt9N1ImvO73yMeTxvHbmA3nHew Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-04.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:11:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : Gap Analysis for Operating IPv6-only MPLS Networks Authors : Wesley George Carlos Pignataro Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-04.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2014-11-25 Abstract: This document reviews the Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) protocol suite in the context of IPv6 and identifies gaps that must be addressed in order to allow MPLS-related protocols and applications to be used with IPv6-only networks. This document is intended to focus on gaps in the standards defining the MPLS suite, and not to highlight particular vendor implementations (or lack thereof) in the context of IPv6-only MPLS functionality. In the data plane, MPLS fully supports IPv6 and MPLS labeled packets can be carried over IPv6 packets in a variety of encapsulations. However, support for IPv6 among MPLS control plane protocols, MPLS applications, MPLS Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM), and MIB modules is mixed, with some protocols having major gaps. For most major gaps work is in progress to upgrade the relevant protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 25 17:28:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6359B1A89AD; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:28:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ca3S9ND9TtAi; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E09ED1A89AC; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:28:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1314; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416965331; x=1418174931; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=oY4+Khnv+1do1pQSOmLBifBkI2+ra0ADptIy+eniRkI=; b=W6a1B3BAw7wRNXLzekDzZ3BFFmxw3b5zY/eyVDnpQNCIKjrwGSiMJn+m yO4QbDSwkTMV5J40Ut+U8q1o7ekfcF0f5+3ZLe8m1aBK8GxU9tbewCY07 1ZqHhYXUyPa2ltej08MeIMzi8dvptSdub6EauEM5er/j/zxM8CFqskFWy g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiMFAL0rdVStJV2b/2dsb2JhbABbgmMjgSkEzxkCgQ8WAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEEOksEAgEIEQQBAQsUCQcyFAkIAgQBEgiIOAHROwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReNL4J7AQEeOAaDKIEfAQSQN4IsjU6DWYM5hFc+hTaECoI3gUV3gQ85gQIBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,459,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="100156210" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2014 01:28:50 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com [173.36.12.78]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAQ1SoeU022433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:28:50 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com ([173.36.12.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:28:49 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications (ends December 12, 2014) Thread-Index: AQHQCRLwD0kN+7aWAUmXdJExNJzzJ5xyHHug Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:28:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141126005002.GL20330@pfrc> In-Reply-To: <20141126005002.GL20330@pfrc> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.24.99.53] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/qRX3uP2XDLjhFnnPw_ziGJSZBAM Subject: Re: [mpls] Adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications (ends December 12, 2014) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:28:52 -0000 Dear MPLS WG, As agreed at IETF91, we would like to keep the MPLS WG involved with draft-= grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications. The document clarifies the procedures of BFD on MPLS. If this topic is of y= our interest, please do read and provide comments. Note, the WG adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications was j= ust kicked off today (and ends on Dec. 12, 2014). Thanks! -Nobo and Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:50 PM > To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org > Subject: Adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications (ends > December 12, 2014) >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > Clarifications to RFC 5884, draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications, was > presented at IETF-91 in Honolulu and was positively received. We'd like = to > ask the Working Group whether we should formally adopt this draft as a > Working Group item. >=20 > Please indicate your support or lack thereof to the mail list by December= 12, > 2014. >=20 > Also, please supply feedback to the authors. I believe the perception of= this > document is that it's very nearly complete and thus should have a short > lifetime prior to publication as an RFC. >=20 > -- Jeff & Nobo. From nobody Tue Nov 25 18:43:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79EEB1A700B for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:43:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yhbkfUKTpXYV for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCE61A86FE for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:43:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141126024326.13345.62216.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:43:26 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/R3P30PVpltOaP8LHFxQ84mfnFhc Subject: [mpls] Milestones changed for mpls WG X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:43:28 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-only-gap for publication", resolved as "Done". URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/charter/ From nobody Tue Nov 25 19:01:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6456B1A8750 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:01:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.71 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.71 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbsvrgeXQN8R for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B13871A1EE8 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.168.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ECB61180006E; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:00:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54754260.4090708@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:00:48 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Aldrin , Ronald Bonica References: <26a36728057a4bc0b74d3df286a7f470@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <84B8D01E-82B3-40B7-B229-D3201D640AF5@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31922C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D8FE4F@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <15767580-0D7D-44E0-ABD2-A9869A7085EC@gmail.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7F31957C@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com> <8B302482-FCF4-41C4-8407-30782EF0A37B@gmail.com> <81a02ced094e46ebac37930d6623f172@CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/jzeBPyQroo-U52zikIfKdUpnr5A Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to comments from the mike X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 03:01:11 -0000 Folks, I did a chair-review that I sent to the authors. In that review (the rest is pretty much editorial) I clearly miss the the "non-relationship" with 4379. I think what I see from the discussion between Sam and Ron are that we want to: - borrow the message format from 4379 - create a new message typ - I with Sam that that message type should be named to avoid being confused with MPLS Echo Request and MPLS Echo Reply - whether we'd like to register this message type in the "Message Type" registry in "Multi- Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) Ping Parameters" is an open question. - but since the new message type will come out of the "Standards Action" registry the document needs to be Standards Track. /Loa On 2014-11-26 07:56, Sam Aldrin wrote: > Hi Ron, > > Thanks for the reply. > > [sorry for the top post] > > Glad that we are on the same page. > Now that we are clear that this ID is not related to RFC4379 but borrows > the model and format of packet structure, etc, I do not have a problem > as such, provided the draft text is worded that way. > Not just for the reasoning purposes, but adds clarity to what you intend > to do and not confuse readers with LSP ping. > W.r.t. Request / Reply, I prefer to have new terms defined and identify > them in the terminology section. For ex: 'Self Ping Message' or > something else. > > RFC4379 may not define different message formats for Echo Request and > Echo Reply, it clearly identifies those message types. > > cheers > -sam > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ronald Bonica > wrote: > > Sam and Carlos,____ > > __ __ > > You are correct in that LSP Self-ping has very little to do with LSP > Ping [RFC 4379]. In fact, aside from borrowing the message format, > it has **nothing** to do with RFC 4379]! ____ > > __ __ > > Rationale follows:____ > > __ __ > > __-__LSP Self-ping messages do not carry the router alert message____ > > __-__Transit and egress LSRs dont examine or process LSP Ping > messages; they simply forward them____ > > __-__Only the ingress LSR listens for LSP Self Ping messages____ > > __-__The ingress LSR listens for LSP Self Ping messages on a > different port than it listens for LSP Ping messages____ > > __-__The ingess LSR never responds to an LSP Self Ping message.____ > > __ __ > > I will make this explicit in the next version of the draft.____ > > __ __ > > Sam,____ > > __ __ > > You raise another point that Loa also raised in his chairs review. > RFC 4379 does not specify Echo Request and Echo Reply messages. It > specifies a single Echo message with a Message Type field (request > or reply). In draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping, I retain that > terminology. However, Loa suggests that I refer to an Echo Reply > message for clarity. I tend to agree with Loa. What do you think?____ > > __ __ > > Ron____ > > ____ > > __ __ > > *From:*Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com > ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:49 AM > *To:* Ronald Bonica > *Cc:* Shah, Himanshu; Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shahram Davari; Thomas > Nadeau; mpls@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to > comments from the mike____ > > __ __ > > Ron,____ > > __ __ > > I do not think the reason specifying it as LSP ping is correct. ____ > > Although you are using LSP ping Echo reply like packet format, it is > not LSP ping packet as it doesn't confirm to RFC4379.____ > > For ex: MPLS Echo Reply is only sent when MPLS Echo Request is > received. Neither does it detect any dataplane failures, which is > the title of the RFC. ____ > > __ __ > > Hence, I am not convinced that this ID warrants informational RFC, > which is based on RFC4379.____ > > __ __ > > But if you want to keep the ID out side the perview of RFC4379, then > it should be updated accordingly and discussion should be on those > lines.____ > > __ __ > > cheers____ > > -sam____ > > On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Ronald Bonica > wrote:____ > > __ __ > > Shah,____ > > ____ > > Because there are no interoperability implications, there is no > need for a standards track RFC. However, because LSP Ping sends > traffic off-box, an INFORMATIONAL RFC is appropriate. LSP Ping > traffic might be detected by counters, intrusion detection > devices and firewalls. We should document all of the OAM traffic > that we generate.____ > > ____ > > Ron____ > > ____ > > ____ > > *From:*Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] > *Sent:*Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:05 PM > *To:*Nobo Akiya (nobo); Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari > *Cc:*Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica; mpls@ietf.org > > *Subject:*RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to > comments from the mike____ > > ____ > > /Understand documenting helpful techniques (more useful during > restoration/re-optimization cases) as informational RFC, but I > believe IETF usually/____ > > /entertains proposals which has interoperability implications, > AFAIK./____ > > //____ > > /Which is what others are saying as well/____ > > //____ > > /Thanks,/____ > > /himanshu/____ > > //____ > > *From:*Nobo Akiya (nobo) [mailto:nobo@cisco.com] > *Sent:*Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:23 PM > *To:*Sam Aldrin; Shahram Davari > *Cc:*Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald Bonica;mpls@ietf.org > > *Subject:*RE: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to > comments from the mike____ > > ____ > > Thanks for not shooting me Sam but Im really not the messengerJ____ > > ____ > > If there is a good proposal that covers set of LSP types with > [virtually] no imitations, then documenting such proposal has an > value, IMHO.____ > > ____ > > Id agree that current contents of this document may not provide > sufficient value to be pursued as an informational document, but > Im not hopeless that something could come out of this.____ > > ____ > > Thanks!____ > > ____ > > -Nobo____ > > ____ > > *From:*Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com] > *Sent:*Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:57 PM > *To:*Shahram Davari > *Cc:*Nobo Akiya (nobo); Shah, Himanshu; Thomas Nadeau; Ronald > Bonica;mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response to > comments from the mike____ > > ____ > > Hi Nobo,____ > > ____ > > [without shooting the messenger]____ > > ____ > > In addition to what you listed, would like to see details on how > this ID will improve the performance at Egress should be > clarified.____ > > i.e. IP routing Vs OAM process (w/o FEC validation). Also, how > this model helps if reverse IP path is not available > (inter-domain, reverse path broken, non-routable ingress IP > address) and to what gain?____ > > ____ > > There are many ways the LSP ping is being used, both as > proprietary and also part of eco system.____ > > If we go by the logic that this ID is needed, we will have slew > of new IDs detailing different usage models.____ > > ____ > > Hence, I totally agree with what Shahram and others have > indicated.____ > > ____ > > -sam____ > > ____ > > On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Shahram Davari > > wrote:____ > > ____ > > Hi,____ > > > Since the procedures in this draft generates and processes > the test packets on the same router and since other routers > just forward normally, why do we even need a draft? There > is no interoperability requirements, and each vendor can > implement what they like.____ > > ____ > > Thanks____ > > Shahram____ > > ____ > > *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]*On Behalf Of*Nobo > Akiya (nobo) > *Sent:*Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:57 AM > *To:*Shah, Himanshu; Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > *Cc:*Ronald Bonica;mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response > to comments from the mike____ > > ____ > > Hi,____ > > ____ > > Sort of summarizing whats been stated but heres my > observation of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping.____ > > ____ > > 1.LSP Ping and BFD MPLS already do what is being proposed.____ > > 2.Ron needs a mechanism that is more efficient on egress > LSRs, with respect to resources and operational aspects.____ > > 3.Any probe packet having destination IP address as the > ingress LSR has limitations in terms of how effective it can > verify the DP readiness.____ > > 4.The proposal by Ron is limited to those LSPs that signal > via ordered mode (ex: LDP independent mode will not work) - > same problem as (3).____ > > ____ > > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is just to > document what has been implemented or what is being > implemented, Id like to request followings to be captured > in the document.____ > > -limitations (3 and 4) so that readers are aware of them.____ > > -usage of non-127/8 address as destination IP address in > MPLS echo request/reply deviates from RFC4379.____ > > ____ > > If the intent of draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping is to advocate > a mechanism for efficient MPLS DP readiness test, and Id > like to request that:____ > > -requirements (2) are well captured.____ > > -S-BFD be evaluated (as it addresses the efficiency > requirements and does not have limitations described by 3 > and 4).____ > > ____ > > Himanshu, I have one comment in-line below. Please look for > [NOBO].____ > > ____ > > ____ > > *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]*On Behalf > Of*Shah, Himanshu > *Sent:*Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM > *To:*Thomas D. Nadeau; Sam Aldrin > *Cc:*Ronald Bonica;mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response > to comments from the mike____ > > ____ > > /This is exactly what I said at Mic./____ > > /We have been deploying MPLS for a while and if such DP > active verification was necessary, vendors have solved it > without/____ > > /standard specific solution, may that be BFD or self-ping./____ > > //____ > > /One of the argument made was that client BFD session > detects that tunnel is active but DP is not./____ > > /Does it imply there is some kind of UNI signaling going on > between PE and CE to indicate that tunnel has become/____ > > /active, commence data? And the idea is that PE will refrain > notification until self-ping verify DP active?/____ > > //____ > > /If that is not the case then this technique is not even > useful self ping is not actually causing the DP to become > active,/____ > > /If it doesnt become active in the time window, what is PE > going to do?/____ > > //____ > > [NOBO] That is another interesting aspect of the whole > solution. However, I believe that the problem scope of this > document is much smaller: ingress LSR to detect readiness of > RSVP signaled LSP. For RSVP signaled LSP, only the LSP that > is passing the test can be tied to the tunnel as the > active LSP, so at least the ingress LSR will not pump > traffic into the tunnel without knowing whether DP > end-to-end is ready or not. Assuming that there are other > ways to get to the egress LSR from this ingress LSR, then > the problem is solved. Otherwise the ingress LSR will drop > the traffic but the problem is contained to that network > node (i.e. packets are not traversing un-ready LSP).____ > > ____ > > Thanks!____ > > ____ > > -Nobo____ > > ____ > > ____ > > //himanshu/____ > > //____ > > *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]*On Behalf > Of*Thomas D. Nadeau > *Sent:*Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:43 AM > *To:*Sam Aldrin > *Cc:*Ronald Bonica;mpls@ietf.org > *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: Response > to comments from the mike____ > > ____ > > ____ > > To me what is described in the draft seems like this is a > description of a device/vendor feature that automates the > basic procedures of 4379/etc.. This can and has been done > for quite some time using other means such as onboard > automated scripts/actions after paths are > established/signaled. I say this not to be glib, but because > I built such a thing about 10 years ago that has been > deployed widely. Also, as Sam says, there is some deviation > from RFC4379 which we should ask is worth the additional > complication (and required implementation + associated > delay/etc...) versus just using the existing means. ____ > > ____ > > The bottom line is that we should be asking ourselves > whether or not this something we really need to standardize.____ > > ____ > > Tom____ > > ____ > > ____ > > ____ > > On Nov 19, 2014:10:28 PM, at 10:28 PM, Sam Aldrin > > > wrote:____ > > ____ > > Hi Ron,____ > > ____ > > Still trying to understand the need for the draft, > hence, have few of questions and need clarifications. > Appreciate your response in advance.____ > > ____ > > 1. (clarification q) The Ingress LSR sends the Echo > request, with destination IP address to self, and > forwards to Egress LSR (sec 2), correct? Is this the > only thing which identifies the Ingress LSR or something > else too?____ > > 2. What happens if there is LSP breakage or something > and the Echo request ends up on transit LSR? Doesn't it > process? I see that draft says, this will avoid control > plane processing. How so? The packet is forwarded from > ingress to egress, which means, the egress will have to > process the packet i.e. look up the ip address to send > it back to ingress.____ > > ____ > > Draft says "The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo > message to its destination, the____ > > ingress LSR. The egress LSR forwards the MPLS Echo message exactly____ > > as it would forward any other packet."____ > > ____ > > Could you explain, how egress forwards the packet back to ingress w/o looking up the packet IP header i.e. in the data plane and no additional control plane of OAM process?____ > > 3. Is the assertion that, if Echo Reply is received back > at the ingress then it is failure, rather it should > receive Echo Request back at Ingress, correct?____ > > 4. Why can't you use LSP proxy ping to self via Egress?____ > > ____ > > Will followup with additional questions, if any, based > on your responses.____ > > ____ > > cheers____ > > -sam____ > > ____ > > On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Ronald Bonica > > > wrote:____ > > ____ > > Folks > > At IETF 91, the following points were raised with > regard to draft-bonica-mpls-self-ping: > > 1) Why not use BFD? > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose FIB programming > errors in which an LSR other than the egress > de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's > readiness to carry traffic in both directions? > 4) Why does MPLS Self ping use MPLS Echo packets, as > opposed to ICMP echo packets or some other packet > format? > > Responses follow: > > 1) Why not use BFD? > > Self Ping is an extremely light-weight protocol. A > typical Self Ping session emits one or two packets > and terminates less than one second after > initiation. Self-ping requires no configuration or > control plane resources on the egress LSR. > > By contrast, BFD is designed to verify > bi-directional connectivity over a longer period of > time. Therefore, MPLS Self Ping is appropriate in > environments where BFD is too resource intensive. > > 2) Self-ping does not diagnose programming errors in > which an LSR other than the egress de-encapsulates > and forwards the packet. > > Self Ping is designed to verify LSP readiness > without consuming control plane resources on the > egress router. It is not designed to diagnose > programming errors in which an LSR other than the > egress de-encapsulates and forwards the packet. > Mechanisms that diagnose such issues are available > [RFC 4950]. However, they are more resource intensive. > > 3) How does Self ping verify a bidirectional LSP's > readiness to carry traffic in both directions? > > In order to verify bidirectional LSP readiness, RSVP > instantiates two LSP Self Ping sessions, one at each > end of the LSP. The LSR at one end of the LSP > initiates a self ping session when it receives a > RESV message. The LSR at the other end of the LSP > initiates a Self Ping Session when it sends a RESV > message. Each LSP endpoint forwards traffic over the > LSP only after the LSP Self Ping session terminates > successfully > > 4) Why does LSP Self Ping use MPLS Echo packets, as > opposed to some other packet format? > > LSP Self Ping could have used many packet formats. > The only hard requirement was to have one 64-bit > field in which the 64 bit session identifier could > be encoded. The MPLS Echo packet was convenient > because its Senders Handle is 64-bits long. > > I will update the draft to reflect this information. > > Ron Bonica > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls____ > > ____ > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls____ > > __ __ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue Nov 25 20:25:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9061A883E; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:25:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N8vn9WKRQGVX; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFBD51A87CB; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:25:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6368; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416975922; x=1418185522; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=9xDUY3JGg2/hUHusS7heW7Re1yc90MZwbwQRkGi2pB8=; b=DV4RCkUX0aZDo91QGyqL0KWsJtWXtWDTuf1xe68YABdmSffw+5mXGIdP tqENFUVcbb2nE/KqCLpHxjQ0QuYn6/8iAECYMY4YIBdMVcEqQMuAARK3l aHWnE7nJ5Ke0+mC5HCTech2OWy5j6tGElFWvItZz8NpuAdAHbRri6g9aV U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiAFAOxVdVStJA2G/2dsb2JhbABbgkJEgSkEzwGBEhYBAQEBAX2ECR1cEgFHORQTBAENBYhA0S0BAQEBAQEEAQEBAQEBAQEakBkRAVCEVAWSY4k/glqBNRKDR4pJgzuECoN8d4EPOYECAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,460,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="100176641" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2014 04:25:09 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAQ4P9O6025128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:25:09 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.207]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:25:09 -0600 From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yang model for LDP/mLDP Thread-Index: AQHQCTD2qHIpYxXJyUG1PtmkMIBwkg== Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:25:08 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [10.86.242.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D09ABB9723B58skrazaciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/imfqD4XKwKjIF-KmjskiidlYR6U Cc: "vbeeram@juniper.net" , "Reshad Rahman \(rrahman\)" , "jescia.chenxia@huawei.com" , "Benoit Claise \(bclaise\)" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] Yang model for LDP/mLDP X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:25:25 -0000 --_000_D09ABB9723B58skrazaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We would like to bring into your kind notice that a multi-vendor team has s= tarted working on the design of the Yang model for LDP/mLDP. Currently, th= e team comprise following members: Robin Li - lizhenbin@huawei.com (Huawei) Jescia Chen - jescia.chenxia@huawei.com= (Huawei) Kamran Raza - skraza@cisco.com (Cisco) Reshad Rahman - rrahman@cisco.com (Cisco) Santosh Esale - sesale@juniper.net (Juniper) Vishnu Pavan Beeram - vbeeram@juniper.net (Ju= niper) Himanshu Shah - hshah@ciena.com (Ciena) The team had our first formal meeting today and we have scheduled calls to = meet weekly to make progress on LDP yang model in upcoming weeks. We will k= eep MPLS WG and rtg-yang-coord alias posted with regards to our progress, a= s well as, solicit input as/when required. [ P.S.: If you wish to contribute to the design of LDP/mLDP yang model, pl= ease let me know accordingly by sending an email and I will add you to the = team / meeting invite] FYI, following is the summary of the main points discussed/agreed in our fi= rst meeting: 1- The scope of our work (and document) includes: - LDP, mLDP, and Multi-topology (LDP/mLDP) - Config, Operational State, Notifications, and RPCs 2- We have broken the effort into following phases: ph1- Overall config model/hierarchy (keeping LDP/mLDP/MT in mind) ph2- LDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs ph3- mLDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs ph4- LDP: state ph5- mLDP: state ph6- Multi-topology (everything) 3- The plan is to have the ph1-3 completed before next IETF and the draft p= osted with the update. 4- In the meantime (and in parallel), we will continue to attend MPLS level= Yang meetings (to be arranged by Tarek) to define MPLS common base, and leverage LDP yang accordingly. 5- The next meeting/call for LDP Yang will be on Tue Dec 2nd with the follo= wing agenda: - Complete discussions on ph1. - Deep dive into ph2 (define overall LDP cfg tree, followed by expansi= on of each container) Rgds, =97 Kamran (on behalf of LDP Yang team) --_000_D09ABB9723B58skrazaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

We would like to bring into your kind notice that a multi-vendor team = has started working on the design of the Yang model for LDP/mLDP.  Cur= rently, the team comprise following members:

  Robin Li - lizhenb= in@huawei.com (Huawei)
  Jescia Chen - jescia.chenxia@huawei.com (Huawei)
  Kamran Raza  - sk= raza@cisco.com (Cisco)
  Reshad Rahman - rrahm= an@cisco.com (Cisco)
  Santosh Esale - sesa= le@juniper.net (Juniper)
  Vishnu Pavan Beeram - vbeeram@juniper.net (Juniper)
  Himanshu Shah - hshah@c= iena.com (Ciena)

The team had our first formal meeting today and we have scheduled call= s to meet weekly to make progress on LDP yang model in upcoming weeks. We w= ill keep MPLS WG and rtg-yang-coord alias posted with regards to our p= rogress, as well as, solicit input as/when required.
[ P.S.:  If you wish to contribute to the design of LDP/mLDP yang= model, please let me know accordingly by sending an email and I will add y= ou to the team / meeting invite]

FYI, following is the summary of the main points discussed/agreed in o= ur first meeting:

1- The scope of our work (and document) includes:
- = ;LDP, mLDP, and Multi-topology (LDP/mLDP)
        - Config, Operational State, Notifications= , and RPCs

2- We have broken the effort into following phases:
       ph1- Overall config model/hierarchy (keepin= g LDP/mLDP/MT in mind)
       ph2- LDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs
       ph3- mLDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs
       ph4- LDP: state
       ph5- mLDP: state
       ph6- Multi-topology (everything)

3- The plan is to have the ph1-3 completed before next IETF and the dr= aft posted with the update.

4- In the meantime (and in parallel), we will continue to attend MPLS = level Yang meetings (to be arranged by Tarek) 
    to define MPLS common base, and leverage LDP yang accord= ingly.

5- The next meeting/call for LDP Yang will be on Tue Dec 2nd with the = following agenda:
     - Complete discussions on ph1.
     - Deep dive into ph2 (define overall LDP cfg tree,= followed by expansion of each container)

Rgds,
=97
Kamran 
(on behalf of LDP Yang team)
--_000_D09ABB9723B58skrazaciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 21:46:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360651A1B38; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:46:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MppxxeRnMRWF; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 848511A1AAF; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:46:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1515; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416980788; x=1418190388; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=d3MtDt7zHwNN1QTPdfB0ov0WgQUFHxeZMVwXI+XlzlM=; b=WxRQckF6Gv8L3S3nvoiOtNL454herWvEMbIVsEkSiBCXVlFcxzbwe2OO 3YK1xeKQw1OlJcLfQpkP8AAjcd4QHNXuKTEkW/D6rbDVwqgNHiKyJNj4I aPotU/3PjHWEfGe+fuSlQgRplEl3z5YD2Pv7nUBBzrbbE999u9z2zvlq8 A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiMFADJodVStJA2D/2dsb2JhbABbgwaBKQTFfYkEAoEPFgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBBDpLBAIBCBEEAQEfCQcyFAkIAgQBEohA0UEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGY0vgnsBAVYGhEcBBJJjjBmBNYNZgzmEVz6FNoQKghIlgUV3gQ85gQIBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,460,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="375318153" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2014 05:46:27 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com [173.37.183.80]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAQ5kQhP022000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:46:26 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.205]) by xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([173.37.183.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:46:26 -0600 From: "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications (ends December 12, 2014) Thread-Index: AQHQCRLwS7f2dECu50OEVSoIGHVtvZxygxeAgACkb4A= Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:46:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141126005002.GL20330@pfrc> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.143.32.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/GqBrvnguRFENGJJPxTQ0fJ1GSTE Subject: Re: [mpls] Adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications (ends December 12, 2014) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:46:29 -0000 Fully support the adoption, as one of the implementors of the base draft. Thanks Srihari On 26/11/14 6:58 am, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" wrote: >Dear MPLS WG, > >As agreed at IETF91, we would like to keep the MPLS WG involved with >draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications. > >The document clarifies the procedures of BFD on MPLS. If this topic is of >your interest, please do read and provide comments. > >Note, the WG adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications was >just kicked off today (and ends on Dec. 12, 2014). > >Thanks! > >-Nobo and Jeff > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rtg-bfd [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey >>Haas >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:50 PM >> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org >> Subject: Adoption poll for draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications (ends >> December 12, 2014) >>=20 >> Working Group, >>=20 >> Clarifications to RFC 5884, draft-grmas-bfd-rfc5884-clarifications, was >> presented at IETF-91 in Honolulu and was positively received. We'd >>like to >> ask the Working Group whether we should formally adopt this draft as a >> Working Group item. >>=20 >> Please indicate your support or lack thereof to the mail list by >>December 12, >> 2014. >>=20 >> Also, please supply feedback to the authors. I believe the perception >>of this >> document is that it's very nearly complete and thus should have a short >> lifetime prior to publication as an RFC. >>=20 >> -- Jeff & Nobo. > From nobody Tue Nov 25 22:39:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3C21A1B9E; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:39:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7z3AvMmAohyg; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B311A1A34; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79206d0000014d2-cf-54751c2a6d71 Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 87.47.05330.B2C15745; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:17:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:39:19 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Yang model for LDP/mLDP Thread-Index: AQHQCUO0iT5bMDq+Kkq87OHKKB2kog== Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:39:18 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D09AB5407C9FBjefftantsuraericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlK62TGmIwZMHihZHH0tYTGq8xWjx /dISFotbS1eyWlxb0cpu8fv5bWaLzS9PMlosWDOT2YHDY8rvjaweLUfesnosWfKTyeN601V2 jy+XP7MFsEZx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZWzq0Sx4H1CxeMtrtgbGfrcuRk4OCQETiacbG9kgbDGJ C/fWA9lcHEICRxglJvftY4ZwljNKdExvZQGpYhMwkPj/7TgLSEJEoJVR4vGGp6wgDrPAWiaJ ra3ngVo4OIQFtCVW700BaRAR0JE40jqbCcLWk/jz9B/YIBYBVYm1T0F6OTl4BcwlPr5fBlbD CHTG91NrwGxmAXGJW0/mM0GcJyCxZA/IeBBbVOLl439gvaJAM59t2MwOEVeSmPP6GjNEb4zE y/tzWSDmC0qcnPmEZQKjyCwkY2chKZuFpAwibiDx/tx8ZghbW2LZwtdQtr7Exi9nGSFsa4mj f/+yIatZwMixipGjtDi1LDfdyGATIzBej0mw6e5g3PPS8hCjAAejEg/vhoslIUKsiWXFlbmH GKU5WJTEeWfVzgsWEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwChwa5f/8b+Oeqmy9T7h21zU P/ocu7XpnlvkQbf1vsvnl5x3npvi4Mvbk/fKuXhRoznH5Ym+xtH2nP6HLgQtklLRead0UeL5 vkmdtlVS0++8vfDLa1LRgsSS5p8r25r25ta9178Vl9Ale+n1ZMaderuOpj14ua03KnZ+et+e 6+qTH70+Pe1G5nIlluKMREMt5qLiRACLMqyGuAIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/L9AFp8FhiFZ45e3JU2mGRHv0nL4 Cc: "vbeeram@juniper.net" , "Reshad Rahman \(rrahman\)" , "jescia.chenxia@huawei.com" , "Benoit Claise \(bclaise\)" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Yang model for LDP/mLDP X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:39:31 -0000 --_000_D09AB5407C9FBjefftantsuraericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kamran, Please add Xufeng Liu xufeng.liu@ericsson.com and myself from E/// side. Thanks! Cheers, Jeff From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" > Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 at 8:25 PM To: "mpls@ietf.org" >, "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" > Cc: "vbeeram@juniper.net" >, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" >, "jescia.chenxia@huawei.com" = >, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" >,= "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" > Subject: [mpls] Yang model for LDP/mLDP Hi, We would like to bring into your kind notice that a multi-vendor team has s= tarted working on the design of the Yang model for LDP/mLDP. Currently, th= e team comprise following members: Robin Li - lizhenbin@huawei.com (Huawei) Jescia Chen - jescia.chenxia@huawei.com= (Huawei) Kamran Raza - skraza@cisco.com (Cisco) Reshad Rahman - rrahman@cisco.com (Cisco) Santosh Esale - sesale@juniper.net (Juniper) Vishnu Pavan Beeram - vbeeram@juniper.net (Ju= niper) Himanshu Shah - hshah@ciena.com (Ciena) The team had our first formal meeting today and we have scheduled calls to = meet weekly to make progress on LDP yang model in upcoming weeks. We will k= eep MPLS WG and rtg-yang-coord alias posted with regards to our progress, a= s well as, solicit input as/when required. [ P.S.: If you wish to contribute to the design of LDP/mLDP yang model, pl= ease let me know accordingly by sending an email and I will add you to the = team / meeting invite] FYI, following is the summary of the main points discussed/agreed in our fi= rst meeting: 1- The scope of our work (and document) includes: - LDP, mLDP, and Multi-topology (LDP/mLDP) - Config, Operational State, Notifications, and RPCs 2- We have broken the effort into following phases: ph1- Overall config model/hierarchy (keeping LDP/mLDP/MT in mind) ph2- LDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs ph3- mLDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs ph4- LDP: state ph5- mLDP: state ph6- Multi-topology (everything) 3- The plan is to have the ph1-3 completed before next IETF and the draft p= osted with the update. 4- In the meantime (and in parallel), we will continue to attend MPLS level= Yang meetings (to be arranged by Tarek) to define MPLS common base, and leverage LDP yang accordingly. 5- The next meeting/call for LDP Yang will be on Tue Dec 2nd with the follo= wing agenda: - Complete discussions on ph1. - Deep dive into ph2 (define overall LDP cfg tree, followed by expansi= on of each container) Rgds, =97 Kamran (on behalf of LDP Yang team) --_000_D09AB5407C9FBjefftantsuraericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <1EE0F1ED0DFA184591CCFA55C65E79F6@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kamran,

Please add Xufeng Liu xu= feng.liu@ericsson.com and myself from E/// side.
Thanks!

Cheers,
Jeff

From: "Kamran Raza (skraza)&qu= ot; <skraza@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 at= 8:25 PM
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@i= etf.org>, "rtg-yang-= coord@ietf.org" <rtg= -yang-coord@ietf.org>
Cc: "vbeeram@juniper.net" <vbeeram@juniper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)"= ; <rrahman@cisco.com>, "= ;jescia.chenxia@huawei.com= " <jescia.chenxia@huawei.com= >, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] Yang model for LDP/= mLDP

Hi,

We would like to bring into your kind notice that a multi-vendor team = has started working on the design of the Yang model for LDP/mLDP.  Cur= rently, the team comprise following members:

  Robin Li - lizhenb= in@huawei.com (Huawei)
  Jescia Chen - jescia.chenxia@huawei.com (Huawei)
  Kamran Raza  - sk= raza@cisco.com (Cisco)
  Reshad Rahman - rrahm= an@cisco.com (Cisco)
  Santosh Esale - sesa= le@juniper.net (Juniper)
  Vishnu Pavan Beeram - vbeeram@juniper.net (Juniper)
  Himanshu Shah - hshah@c= iena.com (Ciena)

The team had our first formal meeting today and we have scheduled call= s to meet weekly to make progress on LDP yang model in upcoming weeks. We w= ill keep MPLS WG and rtg-yang-coord alias posted with regards to our p= rogress, as well as, solicit input as/when required.
[ P.S.:  If you wish to contribute to the design of LDP/mLDP yang= model, please let me know accordingly by sending an email and I will add y= ou to the team / meeting invite]

FYI, following is the summary of the main points discussed/agreed in o= ur first meeting:

1- The scope of our work (and document) includes:
- = ;LDP, mLDP, and Multi-topology (LDP/mLDP)
        - Config, Operational State, Notifications= , and RPCs

2- We have broken the effort into following phases:
       ph1- Overall config model/hierarchy (keepin= g LDP/mLDP/MT in mind)
       ph2- LDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs
       ph3- mLDP: cfg, notifs, rpcs
       ph4- LDP: state
       ph5- mLDP: state
       ph6- Multi-topology (everything)

3- The plan is to have the ph1-3 completed before next IETF and the dr= aft posted with the update.

4- In the meantime (and in parallel), we will continue to attend MPLS = level Yang meetings (to be arranged by Tarek) 
    to define MPLS common base, and leverage LDP yang accord= ingly.

5- The next meeting/call for LDP Yang will be on Tue Dec 2nd with the = following agenda:
     - Complete discussions on ph1.
     - Deep dive into ph2 (define overall LDP cfg tree,= followed by expansion of each container)

Rgds,
=97
Kamran 
(on behalf of LDP Yang team)
 --_000_D09AB5407C9FBjefftantsuraericssoncom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 26 02:34:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E761A8A39 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:34:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yDIb3OOvJoBZ for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 276391A00AD for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.175.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EE220180006E; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:34:32 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5475ACB1.9020808@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 18:34:25 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "VIGOUREUX, MARTIN (MARTIN)" , Tarek Saad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fMcI6h69mMw9iq5kNgMDsoGy3dc Subject: [mpls] Change of Guards, Martin to leave as the mpls wg secretary, Tarek to step in X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:34:38 -0000 Working Group, We regret to announce that Martin is stepping down as MPLS WG secretary. Afte a long term, Martin is now moving on to new challenges as the co-chair of the newly formed BESS Working Group. Martin has set the bar very high for not only his successor, but for all IETF WG Secretaries. Much of what Martin does is behind the scenes and the chairs want you to know what a great job he has done in supporting us. Martin has contributed greatly to draft-secretaries-good-practices. A substantial part of that draft is based on his experiences in supporting the MPLS Working Group. Martin has also been (and has promised to continue to be) a very active member of the MPLS WG. At the same time we are happy to announce that we found a replacement. Tarek Saad will step in as our new secretary and Martin has promised to effect a smooth transition. Please join the working group chairs in thanking Martin and in welcoming Tarek. Loa, Ross and George MPLS WG co-chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Wed Nov 26 11:01:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6AE1A1B2E; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:01:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6rin7m5qsksV; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:01:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 927731A044D; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:01:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141126190115.29281.26478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:01:15 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/0Fr7pLBLr8J6-z2U8kqkGc-9t2M Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:01:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : mLDP In-Band Signaling with Wildcards Authors : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric C. Rosen Arkadiy Gulko Uwe Joorde Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding-03.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2014-11-26 Abstract: There are scenarios in which an IP multicast tree traverses an MPLS domain. In these scenarios, it can be desirable to convert the IP multicast tree "seamlessly" to an MPLS multipoint label switched path (MP-LSP) when it enters the MPLS domain, and then to convert it back to an IP multicast tree when it exits the MPLS domain. Previous documents specify procedures that allow certain kinds of IP multicast trees (either "Source-Specific Multicast" trees or "Bidirectional Multicast" trees) to be attached to an MPLS Multipoint Label Switched Path (MP-LSP). However, the previous documents do not specify procedures for attaching IP "Any Source Multicast" trees to MP-LSPs, nor do they specify procedures for aggregating multiple IP multicast trees onto a single MP-LSP. This document specifies the procedures to support these functions. It does so by defining "wildcard" encodings that make it possible to specify, when setting up an MP- LSP, that a set of IP multicast trees, or a shared IP multicast tree, should be attached to that MP-LSP. Support for non-bidirectional IP "Any Source Multicast" trees is subject to certain applicability restrictions that are discussed in this document. This document updates RFCs 6826 and 7246. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-in-band-wildcard-encoding-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 26 21:54:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFC61A8884 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:54:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wq5pi6n8lt9D for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A651C1A8881 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.175.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 592A91801561; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 06:54:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5476BC82.3020907@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 13:54:10 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Z0wP_0pvjIQ--pis0vcnSU6v4uA Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] MPLS Yang team(s) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 05:54:24 -0000 Working Group, We got a mail asking about the status of the MPLS Yang teams. The background is that the authors of the mpls-yang IDs were asked to prepare a joint presentation at the Honolulu meeting. The authors (and other interested) met during the week and came up with http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/slides/slides-91-mpls-13.pptx We very much appreciate the work done by everyone involved. And believe it will form a good base to move ahead on. At the end of the presentation the relation of this work to generic yang-attempts were brought up. The answer was pretty much that we do not know yet. The YANG teams are not formalized working group design teams. We will need to see the effects of getting the rtg-area tuning fully in place first. For the time being they are individual initiatives, pretty much as an individual draft, however the output from the teams are there out in the open and can be discussed, and will serve as a basis if and when we decide on design teams. The coordination points that can be seen now, and what the teams should be aware of and take into consideration. High level OAM model (LIME) - probably not that much impact on MPLS TE and LDP yang models Generic TE model - it is likely that this will be done in teas - but that mpls data palne specifics will go to mpls - the MPLS TE yang team should be aware of this LDP model - likely to stay (mostly) in MPLS Routing-area coordination - Qin Wu and Dave Sinicrope is the coordinators for this, and the teams should coordinate as necessary. With that the current (individual) yang teams should keep up the good work and wait for the other pieces fall into place. /Loa for the mpls wg chairs PS Tarek, Can you copy this to all members of the yang teams -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Fri Nov 28 07:10:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428731A006C; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:10:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vR8QmwCMYmvP; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8451A0004; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:10:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141128151003.28093.77717.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:10:03 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/2xFDf6XvlNoEYXSFi9BuA65IFdA Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 15:10:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : Carrying PIM-SM in ASM mode Trees over P2MP mLDP LSPs Authors : Yakov Rekhter Rahul Aggarwal Nicolai Leymann Wim Henderickx Quintin Zhao Richard Li Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp-03.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2014-11-28 Abstract: When IP multicast trees created by PIM-SM in Any Source Multicast (ASM) mode need to pass through an MPLS domain, it may be desirable to map such trees to Point-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths. This document describes how to accomplish this in the case where such Point-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths are established using Label Distribution Protocol Extensions for Point-to-Multipoint and Multipoint-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths Multipoint LDP (mLDP). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-pim-sm-over-mldp-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Nov 29 17:36:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CAF1A0084; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:36:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 234jOqHXd8gX; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0E71A0087; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:36:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141130013616.6032.56999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:36:16 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/LCBk7XgvM2rQyStdP1huYq8GJ3s Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:36:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath Support for Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces Authors : Nobo Akiya George Swallow Stephane Litkowski Bruno Decraene John E. Drake Filename : draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2014-11-29 Abstract: This document defines an extension to the MPLS Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping and Traceroute as specified in RFC 4379. The extension allows the MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to discover and exercise specific paths of Layer 2 (L2) Equal-Cost Multipath (ECMP) over Link Aggregation Group (LAG) interfaces. This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Nov 29 17:49:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703F51A00AD for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:49:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EqscU6onRzFI for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:49:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E6801A0086 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:49:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3287; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417312154; x=1418521754; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=gSlXGYAFrM3GNm5ggpw7VS0yMOg6+hciNvdUEz2HhTI=; b=l4B3qeywda/BoHTaK6ivx8WtfMgC8ImBa0XjyguLmY5XjlGabEWzL8bG Qg7St5N1kA1ebIMcUsbSEKwoJ8RFqi796CYMZzTfExeGXV1JPKs12qedw OjUCmP4h3XfY9Yt5CdGGQa6VdEehx5rxQHVWv68jlkCSPS/mL0rfAg36t M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhAFAON2elStJA2L/2dsb2JhbABbgmMjUVMFBMcKDIZMAoEKFgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBAgIBAQE3NBcEAgEIEQQBAQsUCQcnCxQJCAIEEwgBiDcBBwXSAgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReQIyc4BoMjgR8Fjn2CCIRNiCM8gn+QWoN7bwGBA0KBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,485,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="101192496" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Nov 2014 01:49:13 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com [173.36.12.78]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAU1nDnL024098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:49:13 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com ([173.36.12.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 29 Nov 2014 19:49:13 -0600 From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHQDD4pnCnDHEc/4keYywk+CDAECpx4Y95A Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:49:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141130013616.6032.56999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141130013616.6032.56999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.24.34.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/NwH-Y2cPzYRzRr8W1plGSr5cxLA Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:49:16 -0000 Dear MPLS WG, There was number of comments provided by Loa Andersson (thanks Loa!), so we= have made changes to address those comments prior to requesting the chairs= to start the WG adoption poll of this document. The modifications do not make any technical changes, but improved the clari= ty/readability of the document. I'd like to highlight that this document makes improvements to LSP Ping/Tra= ce because usage of following approach does not help. - A problem is detected in a layer X. - Let's drop down a layer and trouble shoot the layer (X-1) to further diag= nose. Such approach has benefits and will be able to find number of problem, but = it won't catch all the problems, unfortunately. Some aspects of good troubleshooting of layer X can only be done on layer X= by having the visibility of the lower layer. For those who has limited time, here's the pointer to the presentation of t= his document at IEtF90. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-mpls-4.pdf Thanks! -Nobo, on behalf of authors > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 8:36 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: mpls@ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04.tx= t >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working > Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath = Support for > Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces > Authors : Nobo Akiya > George Swallow > Stephane Litkowski > Bruno Decraene > John E. Drake > Filename : draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2014-11-29 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines an extension to the MPLS Label Switched Path > (LSP) Ping and Traceroute as specified in RFC 4379. The extension > allows the MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to discover and exercise > specific paths of Layer 2 (L2) Equal-Cost Multipath (ECMP) over Link > Aggregation Group (LAG) interfaces. >=20 > This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-04 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-akiya-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipat= h- > 04 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Sun Nov 30 13:05:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 863C61A1A8F; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:05:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l-p214lDa5hl; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7273C1A1A8E; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:05:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141130210523.16690.74130.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:05:23 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/M0E9CgaMPMlcGIKB-t3rATqnZzs Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-01.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 21:05:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPv6 Router Alert Option for MPLS OAM Authors : Kamran Raza Nobo Akiya Carlos Pignataro Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-01.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2014-11-30 Abstract: RFC 4379 defines the MPLS LSP Ping/Traceroute mechanism, in which the Router Alert Option MUST be set in the IP header of the MPLS Echo Request messages, and may conditionally be set in the IP header of the MPLS Echo Reply messages depending on the Reply Mode used. While a generic "Router shall examine packet" Option Value is used for the IPv4 Router Alert Option (RAO), there is no generic Router Alert Option Value defined for IPv6 that can be used. This document allocates a new generic IPv6 Router Alert Option Value that can be used by MPLS OAM tools, including the MPLS Echo Request and MPLS Echo Reply messages for MPLS in IPv6 environments. Consequently, it updates RFC 4379. The initial motivation to request an IPv6 Router Alert Option (RAO) code point for MPLS OAM comes from MPLS LSP Ping/Traceroute. However, this code point is applicable to all MPLS OAM and not limited to MPLS LSP Ping/Traceroute. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 30 13:16:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB6E1A1A97; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:16:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id piysSwOfufAT; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8C41A1A8A; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:16:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141130211617.25717.24941.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:16:17 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/PKKrGz-vuy_GloBhWe1qFTg0Jv4 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 21:16:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPv6 Router Alert Option for MPLS OAM Authors : Kamran Raza Nobo Akiya Carlos Pignataro Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-02.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2014-11-30 Abstract: RFC 4379 defines the MPLS LSP Ping/Traceroute mechanism, in which the Router Alert Option MUST be set in the IP header of the MPLS Echo Request messages, and may conditionally be set in the IP header of the MPLS Echo Reply messages depending on the Reply Mode used. While a generic "Router shall examine packet" Option Value is used for the IPv4 Router Alert Option (RAO), there is no generic Router Alert Option Value defined for IPv6 that can be used. This document allocates a new generic IPv6 Router Alert Option Value that can be used by MPLS OAM tools, including the MPLS Echo Request and MPLS Echo Reply messages for MPLS in IPv6 environments. Consequently, it updates RFC 4379. The initial motivation to request an IPv6 Router Alert Option (RAO) code point for MPLS OAM comes from MPLS LSP Ping/Traceroute. However, this code point is applicable to all MPLS OAM and not limited to MPLS LSP Ping/Traceroute. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-oam-ipv6-rao-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 30 19:18:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87701A0373 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:17:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A_U-kGJyvAOz for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 687631A034F for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [49.149.195.163]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B6B3180110A; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 04:17:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <547BDDD9.3080704@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 11:17:45 +0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <54626795.1090408@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/93IDt82BBuKSK6e2EcjVIJvZBN8 Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to se if we have consensus to make draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label an mpls wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 03:17:59 -0000 "Working Group, The poll for adoption of draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label is closed. We have found that there is a good support for adopting the draft as an MPLS wg document. We also have a fair number of comments, that we'd like to see addressed before making it a wg document. We have therefore asked the authors to work with the reviewers and re-spin an updated version of the document. /Loa for the MPLS wg chairs" On 2014-11-12 03:46, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-kini-mpls-spring-entropy-label as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > There is no IPR disclosures directly against this document. > > The authors has all stated on the working group mailing > list that they are unaware of any IPR claims against this draft. > > However we have an outstanding issue on IPRs. There were more than > one solution to entropy labels for spring, they are referenced in the > document, but are labeled as "discounted". One of these proposed > had an IPR disclosure. > > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > This poll ends November 25, 2014. > > /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64