From nobody Wed Jul 1 07:37:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346DB1A8BB1; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 07:37:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d0hslEoNkqIe; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 07:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EEED1A8BB4; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 07:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-7.2.4-5) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 38af3955.0.362104.00-2268.1022692.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Wed, 01 Jul 2015 14:34:46 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 5593fa867e6119d6-9cd6b0a016e7aa35c7374d83013ca7c319a5320c Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t61EYhod003596; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 10:34:43 -0400 Received: from mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.239]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t61EYZZE003417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Jul 2015 10:34:39 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAG.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAG.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.151]) by mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Wed, 1 Jul 2015 14:34:30 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.99]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAG.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.151]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 10:34:29 -0400 From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mpls Thread-Index: AdC0CvYHtr9AvWOoRYWWVFFMA2CqxA== Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 14:34:29 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.207.83] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C83B5D605CMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=T/07uY2Q c=1 sm=1 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32RAAAA:8 a=BWk2EX7oiAcA:10 a=BLceE] X-AnalysisOut: [mwcHowA:10 a=zOBTXjUuO1YA:10 a=ka1DfPz9O9CeAyBDA5cA:9 a=Cj] X-AnalysisOut: [uIK1q_8ugA:10 a=bY7hOKH1BO1VLLqdyG4A:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=PPjILbJHWLbUaa6S:21] X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-seamless-mpls X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 14:37:01 -0000 --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C83B5D605CMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MPLS WG, This draft has been sitting for quite some time. Your former AD was not hap= py with it and tried to work (unsuccessfully) with the authors. Myself, I s= ent email several weeks ago, and had no response. I'm sending it back to th= e WG, if there's interest to continue with it, let your chairs know. Here's a brief summary of my main concerns: - I think my main concern is the readability and status as an archite= cture document. It provides lengthy descriptions of network design and nume= ric performance numbers which are estimates (as the document says, based on= "assumed", "assuming", "expect") - not appropriate for an architecture doc= ument e.g. the claim to meet the elusive sub-50ms network availability. - The deployment scenarios (plural in the document, but I only see #1= ) is a solution (including use of 2119 for protocol operation) - not approp= riate for an architecture document. - The document says it reflects SP deployments and defines implementa= tion choices - not typical for an architecture document. My recommendation is if this is an architecture document, need to cut after= section 4. And reword a bit. Thanks, Deborah --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C83B5D605CMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MPLS WG,
 
This draft has been sitting for quite some time. Your former AD was no= t happy with it and tried to work (unsuccessfully) with the authors. Myself= , I sent email several weeks ago, and had no response. I’m sending it= back to the WG, if there’s interest to continue with it, let your chairs know.
 
Here’s a brief summary of my main concerns:
 
  • I think my main concern is the readability and status as an architectur= e document. It provides lengthy descriptions of network design and numeric = performance numbers which are estimates (as the document says, based on = 220;assumed”, “assuming”, “expect”) – not appropriate for an architecture document e.g. the claim to meet the elu= sive sub-50ms network availability.
  • The deployment scenarios (plura= l in the document, but I only see #1) is a solution (including use of 2119 = for protocol operation) – not appropriate for an architecture documen= t.
  • The document says it reflects SP deployments and defines impleme= ntation choices – not typical for an architecture document.
 
My recommendation is if this is an architecture document, need to cut = after section 4. And reword a bit.
 
Thanks,
Deborah
 
 
 --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C83B5D605CMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_-- From nobody Wed Jul 1 08:39:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A24E1A90BE for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 08:39:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6fEzDoBdmD9S for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 08:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22b.google.com (mail-pa0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DDE11A90CC for ; 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boundary="----=_001_NextPart705474475165_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 15:39:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart705474475165_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQpUaGVuIGluIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBzZWN0aW9uIDQuMiwgd2UgY291bGQgc2F5Og0KT25l IGV4YW1wbGUgb2Ygc3Bhbm5pbmcgdHdvIGFkZHJlc3MgZG9tYWlucyBpcyB0aGUgQVNCUiBub2Rl LiBPdGhlciBjYXNlcyBhcmUgYWxzbyBwb3NzaWJsZSwgYW5kIG91dCBvZiB0aGUgc2NvcGUgb2Yg dGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudC4gDQoNCg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzDQpMaXpob25nDQogDQpGcm9tOiBBZHJpYW4g RmFycmVsDQpEYXRlOiAyMDE1LTA2LTMwIDE5OjM1DQpUbzogJ0dlb3JnZSBTd2FsbG93IFwoc3dh bGxvd1wpJzsgbGl6aG8uamluQGdtYWlsLmNvbTsgJ2xvYSc7ICdtcGxzJzsgJ21wbHMtY2hhaXJz JzsgJ2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtbXBscy1sc3AtcGluZy1yZWxheS1yZXBseSc7ICdkYjM1NDYnDQpTdWJq ZWN0OiBSRTogW21wbHNdIE1QTFMgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBsYXN0IGNhbGwgb24gZHJhZnQtaWV0 Zi1tcGxzLWxzcC1waW5nLXJlbGF5LXJlcGx5DQpUaGFua3MgR2VvcmdlLA0KIA0KW3NuaXBdDQog DQo+ID4+PiBJIHRyaWVkIHRvIHdvcmsgb3V0IGhvdyB0aGluZ3Mgd291bGQgcGFuIG91dCBpZiB0 d28gQVNlcyBvbiB0aGUgcGF0aA0KPiA+Pj4gdXNlZCB0aGUgc2FtZSBhZGRyZXNzIHNwYWNlIHdp dGhpbiB0aGVpciBBUy4gV291bGQgYW4gYWRkcmVzcyBhcHBlYXIgaW4NCj4gPj4+IHRoZSBzdGFj ayBhbmQgc2VlbSB0byBiZSByb3V0YWJsZSB3aGVuIGl0IGlzIHJlYWxseSBhbiBhZGRyZXNzIGlu IHRoZQ0KPiA+Pj4gb3RoZXIgQVM/DQo+ID4+IFtMaXpob25nXSB3ZSBoYXZlIGFuIGV4YW1wbGUg aW4gc2VjdGlvbiA1LiBBbmQgYWRkcmVzcyBvZiBQMSBhbmQgUDINCj4gPj4gY291bGQgYmUgc2Ft ZS4gSW4gdGhhdCBjYXNlLCBBU0JSMSBtdXN0IGFkZCBpdHMgaW50ZXJmYWNlIGFkZHJlc3MNCj4g Pj4gZmFjaW5nIEFTQlIyIHdpdGggdGhlIEsgYml0IHNldC4gVGhlbiByZWxheSByZXBseSB3aWxs IG5vdCBiZSBtaXNzLXJvdXRlZC4NCj4gPg0KPiA+QWgsIEkgZ2V0IGl0Lg0KPiA+QnV0IHRoaXMg cmVsaWVzIG9uIEFTQlQxIHNldHRpbmcgdGhlIEsgYml0Lg0KPiA+U28gSSBzdXNwZWN0IHRoaXMg bmVlZHMgdG8gbm90IGJlIGEgc3BlY2lhbCBjYXNlOiB5b3UgbmVlZCB0byByZXF1aXJlDQo+ID50 aGF0IHRoZSBkb21haW4gYm91bmRhcnkgYWx3YXlzIHNldHMgdGhlIEsgYml0Lg0KPiANCj4gR1M+ ICBJIG1hZGUgc3VjaCBhIGNoYW5nZSBhd2hpbGUgYmFjay4gIEl0IGdvdCBzaG90IGRvd24gb24g dGhlIGxpc3QuDQo+IFRoZXJlIHdhcyBwdXNoIGJhY2sgZHVlIHRvIHRoZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudCBm b3IgdG9wb2xvZ2ljYWwgYXdhcmVuZXNzDQo+IHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgTFNQIFBpbmcgbW9kdWxlLg0K PiANCj4gQWRyaWFuIC0gSWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gdHJ5IHB1c2hpbmcgYmFjayBvbiB0aGF0LCB3 b3VsZCB5b3Ugc2VuZCBhIG1lc3NhZ2UNCj4gdG8gdGhlIGxpc3Qgb24ganVzdCB0aGlzIHRvcGlj IGFuZCBzZWUgaWYgd2UgY2FuIGNvbnZpbmNlIGZvbGtzLg0KIA0KQ29uc2lkZXIgdGhpcyB0byBi ZSB0aGUgcHVzaC1iYWNrISA6LSkNCiANCkl0IHNlZW1zIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRvbWFpbiBib3VuZGFy eSAocHJvYmFibHkganVzdCBhbiBBU0JSPykgZWl0aGVyIGhhcyB0byBrbm93DQp0aGF0IHNvbWUg b3RoZXIgZG9tYWluIGluIHRoZSBwYXRoIGlzIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBzYW1lIGFkZHJlc3Mgc3BhY2Ug YXMgaXQgaXMNCnVzaW5nLCBvciBpdCBoYXMgdG8ga25vdyB0aGF0IGl0IGlzIGFuIEFTQlIuIFdp dGhvdXQgYXBwbHlpbmcgdGhlIEsgYml0IGZvciBvbmUNCm9mIHRoZXNlIGNyaXRlcmlhLCB0aGUg bWVjaGFuaXNtIGlzIGJyb2tlbi4NCiANCkkgc3VnZ2VzdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBmb3JtZXIgaXMgaGFy ZCB0byBrbm93LCBidXQgdGhlIGxhdHRlciBpcyBlYXN5IGFuZCBjYW4gYmUNCmluamVjdGVkIGlu dG8gdGhlICJMU1AgUGluZyBtb2R1bGUiLiBUaGlzIGlzIE5PVCB0b3BvbG9naWNhbCBhd2FyZW5l c3Mgc2luY2UgaXQNCmRvZXMgbm90IGRvIGhhcm0gdG8gaGF2ZSBleHRyYSBLIGJpdHMgc2V0LCBz byBpbiB0aGUgcmVsYXRpdmVseSByYXJlIGNhc2Ugb2YgYW4NCkFTQlIgYmVpbmcgb24gdGhlIHBh dGggb2YgYW4gTFNQIHRoYXQgZG9lcyBub3QgYWN0dWFsbHkgZXhpdCB0aGUgQVMsIG5vIGhhcm0N CndpbGwgYmUgZG9uZS4NCiANClRoZSBhdXRob3JzIG1heSB3YW50IHRvIGFzayB0aGUgY2hhaXJz IGhvdyB0aGV5IGVzdGFibGlzaCB3aGV0aGVyIHRoZXJlIGlzIFdHDQphZ3JlZW1lbnQgb24gdGhp cyBwb2ludC4NCiANCkNoZWVycywNCkFkcmlhbg0KIA0K ------=_001_NextPart705474475165_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Next year, the MPLS SDN event and the NFV & SDN Summit will = be merged in a single World Congress.

MPLS SDN track: 

-       = Traffic engineering perspectives

-       = Spring, PCE, MPLS TE, SDN WAN, = IPv6

-       = SDN perspectives in IoT

-       = Optical switching, SDN = controllers

NFV Open source track: 

-       = Control plane virtualization = scenarios

-       = Open source: first deployments = report

-       = NFV: cloud & datacenter

-       = Service providers use cases = reports

The CFP deadline has = been extended to July 21st.

More info.: http://www.uppersideconferences.com/mpls-sdn-n= fv/mpls-sdn-nfv_2016_call_for_papers.html

 

 

<= /body> ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01D0BA6C.FD40A190-- From nobody Thu Jul 9 09:40:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9311C1B2AC8 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HrQxUIQsJpoy for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 545AA1B2A49 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1298; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1436460037; x=1437669637; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=TvMxHLdsAkhlrQjWp7xdg5x9Bym0B9Dmvs0gDbCoVWo=; b=QK223JUt+QokEIqYIiEyq2WLrRMaR982QPqmdGph6UhxAlY5PpkP7CQ4 GZysgYwRkhzasSzQXK8MXgOr7R5M81e36xbTGkj7c7azvFHD51XxVDJhm zgctADgh7EwzLDqxUItf2Wf44bfcWCvFugULeAICsPiNslj7HPPagT116 o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CWAwACo55V/4YNJK1bgkVNVGa7GwmBcYV3gV04FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQaDAR5EgELAXQnBA6IMw3PLwEBAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEBAQEVBJBNBIQyBZQtAYt/gT2EGJMSJoN7gjaBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,441,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217";a="167016830" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2015 16:40:36 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t69Gea7M019503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Jul 2015 16:40:36 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com ([169.254.3.83]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([173.37.183.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 11:40:36 -0500 From: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Prelimenary agenda for IETF93 Thread-Index: AQHQumX6InNR/hFRH0yKFHy7qpXhvg== Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 16:40:35 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 x-originating-ip: [161.44.213.114] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1C41C4533155tsaadciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] Prelimenary agenda for IETF93 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 16:40:38 -0000 --_000_D1C41C4533155tsaadciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, The preliminary agenda is posted at: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/agenda/agenda-93-mpls Please review and let us know is there are any corrections/changes needed. Regards, Tarek and MPLS chairs --_000_D1C41C4533155tsaadciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1E0B216A6CD04F478B1069B8385C77DD@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone,

The preliminary agenda is posted at:
Please review and let us know is there are any corrections/changes nee= ded.

Regards,
Tarek and MPLS chairs
--_000_D1C41C4533155tsaadciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Jul 9 14:23:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AB31A0396; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 14:23:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98TKqFVsl9MM; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 14:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0104.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4D281A036A; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 14:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO2PR0501MB919.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.22) by CO2PR0501MB918.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.247.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.207.19; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 21:23:50 +0000 Received: from CO2PR0501MB919.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.22]) by CO2PR0501MB919.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.247.22]) with mapi id 15.01.0207.004; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 21:23:49 +0000 From: Markus Jork To: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , Gregory Mirsky , Jeff Tantsura , Mach Chen , "Ilya@nobulus.com" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 Thread-Index: AQHQrp6jgU6mEKrEDEixCriNRyOIhJ3TtJgQ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 21:23:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CO2PR0501MB918; 5:5i/ewocYQ1BLx0+AqGAVWyTIEjUI1AEHJ/gbdlrQokdqFG3pjUm3qo0fdHE7RzNsVSiZ5zrvhUC8mFv7557h8XRn2bjmVg3sVNH7SmFkO/zbWF+ZaTrgummzct8ghL/jy1ItGsD2/2ofgVLZ5T7lSA==; 24:h6LS0dVbxKsMOzDCbMeehmN6f/8w8GI4PAEDqliGh6wtIwZyLAlVR8xN7wkpjljA8nQtTmzzP2FMy3oLrxyY8NhzaVUSg7NDfYQvqVt3izE=; 20:deM3N+RIbxCf4nhmcjAhmKPNsrNxSXMI13MsmDBlMLUfpzGwvpNk3YuSvfjodGDjm6Qiw3KS4DvQ3VWgw2IFww== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR0501MB918; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:CO2PR0501MB918; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO2PR0501MB918; x-forefront-prvs: 0632519F33 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(5001920100001)(66066001)(5002640100001)(5001770100001)(62966003)(33656002)(99286002)(86362001)(77156002)(46102003)(106116001)(5003600100002)(2656002)(230783001)(92566002)(102836002)(2501003)(76576001)(2900100001)(2950100001)(54356999)(5001960100002)(189998001)(76176999)(50986999)(74316001)(87936001)(122556002)(40100003)(77096005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO2PR0501MB918; H:CO2PR0501MB919.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jul 2015 21:23:49.5889 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR0501MB918 Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 21:23:53 -0000 I have looked at draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 as one of the MPLS-RT re= viewers. The document clearly explains the desire to have a matching return path for= a BFD session and proposes a straight forward mechanism for that. As such = it is coherent. The mechanism is based on the initiator of the BFD session picking and spec= ifying the return path. I can imagine use cases where that is the preferabl= e approach. Though one could also go about this from the other direction: l= et the other end pick a return path that matches the forward path. That wou= ld not require protocol extensions. Nevertheless, there are probably enough= cases where the mechanism in this document is appropriate and so I think i= t will be useful. The document seems technically sound to me and is ready to be considered fo= r WG adoption. -Markus From nobody Thu Jul 9 18:37:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129511A1BF2; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 18:37:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qqQMr3dz7RVy; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 18:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0126.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.126]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04A031A1BEF; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 18:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY2PR0501MB1813.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.155.143) by BY2PR0501MB1813.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.155.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.213.14; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 01:37:23 +0000 Received: from BY2PR0501MB1813.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.155.143]) by BY2PR0501MB1813.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.155.143]) with mapi id 15.01.0213.000; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 01:37:23 +0000 From: Yimin Shen To: "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 Thread-Index: AdCulDikA5WgvcQnQCSiWQCAAJNPcwMGNlyg Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 01:37:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: tools.ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.10] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY2PR0501MB1813; 5:+wemobDdzVtK2x8pZbyQmsKeA53Yz/uRPp4wtVbTWZIpjHtHZGP7kGP6O/vEiCwMJXS1rC3gH4Hg5A420fqasJB+0zmmyNrgQDr634MxB0J4RGdiPJ+gIVJhKRQrrkuqI6xUppmA6I35vOh1DpiYxQ==; 24:8mIozHDee+TnkLU+I3DdpruhivneAG/pE1PEhFjwsriaZhYI6IxYYV2r+PW8n2+vZQX1dfMe+1GGDeNXvMqAsbnGH/9Msum6TKaSsftg2Lc=; 20:X6QewiS5+gm40n55+TrwcfeN8qcMYFoB+FEtG7k6SH44jFQz8ptHRReq/8y6Sa4Bvn8zLEuaTAaDA36EYHir6A== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY2PR0501MB1813; by2pr0501mb1813: X-MS-Exchange-Organization-RulesExecuted x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(108003899814671); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:BY2PR0501MB1813; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2PR0501MB1813; x-forefront-prvs: 06339BAE63 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(50986999)(2501003)(46102003)(87936001)(2656002)(77096005)(66066001)(5003600100002)(74316001)(99286002)(5002640100001)(33656002)(5001960100002)(86362001)(189998001)(110136002)(102836002)(575784001)(15975445007)(2351001)(2900100001)(40100003)(2950100001)(62966003)(77156002)(19580395003)(92566002)(122556002)(54356999)(76576001)(76176999)(230783001)(579004)(559001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR0501MB1813; H:BY2PR0501MB1813.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY2PR0501MB181356DF5C6A742BC629A5BBBD9F0BY2PR0501MB1813_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jul 2015 01:37:22.8515 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR0501MB1813 Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 01:37:29 -0000 --_000_BY2PR0501MB181356DF5C6A742BC629A5BBBD9F0BY2PR0501MB1813_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear authors, chairs, and WG I've been asked by the WG chairs to review draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-= protection-05 for WG adoption. Overall, I think the draft is trying to addr= ess a valid MPLS-TP scenario by using a promising solution. However, I have= the following comments and questions for sections 1 to 4, which I would l= ike to request the authors to answer and clarify. [1] Section 2.1 - Recovery of multiple failures - This is misleading to me. The draft seems to only be able to handle= a single failure per ring, rather than multiple failures per ring. This ma= y need some clarification. [2] I'd like to suggest to change term "exit node" to "egress node". [3] Section 4.1 - The ring tunnel layer. - Given a ring of N nodes, this layer would consist of 4xN ring tunne= ls. The draft is a little light on the provisioning and management aspects = of this layer, while pushing a lot of complexity to this layer. - Each node is traversed by many tunnels. How does it know whether a = tunnel is working or protecting, and whether a tunnel is CW or AW ? How do= es it associate a working tunnel with a protecting tunnel (to the same egre= ss node, but opposite in direction) ? - When an ingress node needs a working tunnel to a particular egress = node, how does choose between the CW tunnel and the AW tunnel, especially = when one is significantly longer (i.e. of higher cost) than the other ? [4] The draft describes 4 tunnels (CW, AW, CP, AP) per egress node ? Is= it possible to use only 2 tunnels (i.e. CW and AW) and have them protect e= ach other ? [5] Section 4.3.2 -- Short wrapping vs. "traditional wrapping" - Does "traditional wrapping" refer to the scenario in section 4.3.1 = ? - The 4.3.2 mode seems superior to the 4.3.1 mode in all aspects. If = so, would there be any value to keep 4.3.1 mode. - In 4.3.2 mode, CW tunnel =3D=3DCP tunnel and AW tunnel =3D=3D AP tu= nnel in path topology, correct ? If so, you could reduce the number of tunn= els per egress node from 4 to 2 (as comment [4] above), correct ? [6] Section 4.3.3 - This is equivalent to "global repair" in MPLS. However, why does th= e ingress node switch traffic from CW tunnel to AP tunnel instead of AW tun= nel ? A working tunnel should be "better" than a protecting tunnel to perma= nently carry traffic. [7] Section 4.4 - I'm not sure how label swap would work on an interconnection node, = as the draft describes it. In Fig-12, in normal state, F receives a packet = from ring-1; The top label X is a tunnel to the node group; The next label = Y is the service LSP. So, F pops label X, and " the label used for working = ring tunnel R2cW_I will be pushed based on the inner label" (i.e. label Y).= How could F have the knowledge about the service LSP, its label Y, and its= egress node, etc ? - I may have more questions to follow after the above... Regards, Yimin Shen Juniper Networks --_000_BY2PR0501MB181356DF5C6A742BC629A5BBBD9F0BY2PR0501MB1813_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear authors, chairs, and WG
 
I’ve been asked by the WG chairs to review draft-cheng-mpls-tp-s= hared-ring-protection-05 for WG adoption. Overall, I think the draft is try= ing to address a valid MPLS-TP scenario by using a promising solution. Howe= ver, I have the following comments and questions  for sections 1 to 4, which I would like to request the auth= ors to answer and clarify.
 
  1. Section 2.1 – Recovery of multiple failures
  • This is misleading to me. The draft seems to only be able to handle a s= ingle failure per ring, rather than multiple failures per ring. This may ne= ed some clarification.
 
  1. I’d like to suggest to change term “exit node” to = 220;egress node”.
 
  1. Section 4.1 - The ring tunnel layer.
 
  • Given a ring of N nodes, this layer would consist of 4xN ring tunnels. = The draft is a little light on the provisioning and management aspects of t= his layer, while pushing a lot of complexity to this layer.
  • Each node is traversed by many tunnels. How does it know whether a tunn= el is working or protecting,  and whether a tunnel is CW or AW ? How d= oes it associate a working tunnel with a protecting tunnel (to the same egr= ess node, but opposite in direction) ?
  • When an ingress node needs a working tunnel to a particular egres= s node, how does choose between the CW  tunnel and the AW tunnel, espe= cially when one is significantly longer  (i.e. of higher cost) than th= e other ?
 
  1. The draft describes 4 tunnels (CW, AW, CP, AP) per egress node ? Is it = possible to use only 2 tunnels (i.e. CW and AW) and have them protect each = other ?
 
  1. Section 4.3.2 -- Short wrapping vs. “traditional wrapping”<= /li>
 
  • Does “traditional wrapping” refer to the scenario in sectio= n 4.3.1 ?
  • The 4.3.2 mode seems superior to the 4.3.1 mode in all as= pects. If so, would there be any value to keep 4.3.1 mode.
  • In 4.3.2= mode, CW tunnel =3D=3DCP tunnel and AW tunnel =3D=3D AP tunnel in path top= ology, correct ? If so, you could reduce the number of tunnels per egress n= ode from 4 to 2 (as comment [4] above), correct ?
 
  1. Section 4.3.3
 
  • This is equivalent to “global repair” in MPLS. However, why= does the ingress node switch traffic from CW tunnel to AP tunnel instead o= f AW tunnel ? A working tunnel should be “better” than a protec= ting tunnel to permanently carry traffic.
 
  1. Section 4.4
 
  • I’m not sure how label swap would work on an interconnection node= , as the draft describes it. In Fig-12, in normal state, F receives a packe= t from ring-1; The top label X is a tunnel to the node group; The next labe= l Y is the service LSP. So, F pops label X, and “ the label used for working ring tunnel R2cW_I will be pushed= based on the inner label” (i.e. label Y). How could F have the knowl= edge about the service LSP, its label Y, and its egress node, etc ?
    • I may have more questions to follow after the above…
 
Regards,
 
Yimin Shen
Juniper Networks
 
 
 --_000_BY2PR0501MB181356DF5C6A742BC629A5BBBD9F0BY2PR0501MB1813_-- From nobody Fri Jul 10 08:34:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF62D1B29C9 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qkaEpLmr_--2 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0755.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::755]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1779A1B29C7 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR05MB1985.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.162.224.27) by BN3PR0501MB1297.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.183.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.207.19; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:34:49 +0000 Received: from BLUPR05MB1985.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.224.27]) by BLUPR05MB1985.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.224.27]) with mapi id 15.01.0207.004; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:34:49 +0000 From: Ronald Bonica To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , Raveendra Torvi , "inaminei@google.com" , "michael.e.conn@verizon.com" , "EXT - luis.tomotaki@verizon.com" , "dante.j.pacella@verizon.com" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" Thread-Topic: Re: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AdC7Jd9w6TUbe9AITCmB0k7wMI5lZw== Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: pi.nu; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1297; 5:OxKjDY7kdhEaQ47cOb9bbXaauZak3J1nTZU/YTFBeI5HLpvHJQViEkkw+PI0lM7+giEtnhqG9EuksA1MHya0uAfmzIs+47JlXtbZmmIthDfSqxOSAikZ0eRPx2hRTd3h78UdhumDkXMOF0pwLFrSsw==; 24:P/UwLwBwmuIWZJNtOu8k9OQZEN+fSMG60Bb8WxLry59pFsmbWKGoy62Jpsw3vbjGOEvHg+SlLV9fnxbJZ80ZAbGUP11zVn0RbjRJbF9CCcg=; 20:GOyQOvvDGrYSLKzY312CcHKu0XqPjwR2YCcHQDZ2jzoL7pghMiFXkwgH7Op5Z8ogZmthGdXS2eKDDwaKrRJeVw== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1297; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1297; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1297; x-forefront-prvs: 06339BAE63 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(2900100001)(107886002)(5001960100002)(15975445007)(5001770100001)(102836002)(558084003)(77096005)(74316001)(5003600100002)(66066001)(230783001)(2656002)(87936001)(50986999)(2201001)(86362001)(33656002)(54356999)(19580395003)(77156002)(62966003)(122556002)(40100003)(46102003)(2501003)(76576001)(5002640100001)(189998001)(92566002)(7059030)(921003)(1121003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1297; H:BLUPR05MB1985.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jul 2015 15:34:49.0169 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1297 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:34:56 -0000 Loa, The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and posted = at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/. Ron Bonica From nobody Fri Jul 10 09:11:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7648D1B2CCE for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:11:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LsL3hNJmtKeG for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com (omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com [199.249.25.209]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31D571B2CCD for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=verizon.com; i=@verizon.com; q=dns/txt; s=corp; t=1436544682; x=1468080682; h=from:to:date:subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ikhtqhqOGHAV0fWHW8xG81brFf63eH/a9gNDvjIZamo=; b=LrCKkAXxUXxo/Ik874yvGyZZR0Gyz1imCs7EOi+ckODSktBJQqvjusOX r8QkJIAeQJUF1XWKV0SwvBpmvWg064EasGz0YSo1ky+TswAzXPJCkR83F ha2hURXQk6/EDtOGI0jVD2L708EzO2easC57VK+uElMEaSd1XynDHT0lf 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from omzsmtpi02.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.172]) by omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2015 16:06:21 +0000 From: "Wygant, Mark" To: Ronald Bonica , Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , Raveendra Torvi , "inaminei@google.com" , "Conn, Michael" , "Tomotaki, Luis M" , "Pacella, Dante J" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,447,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="448283873" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb04.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.191]) by omzsmtpi02.vzbi.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2015 16:06:18 +0000 Received: from FHDP1LUMXC7V42.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.125.37]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.191]) with mapi; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:06:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:06:16 -0400 Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AdC7Jd9w6TUbe9AITCmB0k7wMI5lZwABFyLA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 16:11:23 -0000 I am not aware of any other IPR. Mark Wygant=20 -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Bonica Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:35 AM To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mp= ls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org; Raveendra Torvi; inaminei@google.com; Conn, Mi= chael; Tomotaki, Luis M; Pacella, Dante J; mark.wygant@verizon.net Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Loa, The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and posted = at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/. Ron Bonica _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Fri Jul 10 09:34:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC581B29B1 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nlI2G6DNWGBl for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x232.google.com (mail-lb0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B6DE1B29AF for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbpo10 with SMTP id po10so95606903lbb.3 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vJmb5N61GyTwnX+pXjjbUxo8nCE//nOyEY7GeqkXfC4=; b=lGCpDw1OYFojSa6X61p3Soub/TSHisymdi9pNy02y7iddqsThUUSDQQGqjc9cyQGYC LCappZHlUubqJmSftXp1eNbS4BY+Kr0es90Ao8heVIyxTi73VtMyRpjWSdrx51yVcz5t cmV33Tc07jwhvi1ZMfwbkLjy3scoK4Fi//wMcTRVqNMtY7ToizLVDfDevewARgwfT2mR Y/mg1uOYWUwp5ZaiXXrYshKQFaLUq01uVh1T93BHrKO9Gwo2HqYvMX9C+4QCPNEGuZXD jL+MqFQGm5c+ltDc1/VAYf83ZNe6DtOBYFpbnS+DLS5wz1J7CCvw6d+xDwaQ4RnL20Fd rGEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vJmb5N61GyTwnX+pXjjbUxo8nCE//nOyEY7GeqkXfC4=; b=HdTEiJIM+LiNzj6Zygu1aytfDMaEfEBJhc0cm2v8qxKCy0nRC4v/9eLor94X6F0zXZ jz43DAe6aMaYIEcT6f4Yhoo69HeGyr4TlUGY7IqdNoGpeY04zk6xXOsUAgmeMmOWVizR d5B+YVy1nqRNCuBWkFmbfRUWKgsUGvYJVwMJ5uQ2vnGuxa6Kck9M99i5He+NKr+3SsFX 32tuw6nKeuu5pdHcGaTsYsNdoEuWb+PchIurQ46jFHN8EAjLCUDzkS6V6GJVGfpqZGgp ODYeBIkjI6vj1858xXZjPKqesGP63pmmeLr9oZbLtWX4XRRxPx6CPNQC5pU1AwaiZDok 9Akw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnR2RFVjAhy1MHmIkJ2VcA/Qvl4qgUYsxuXGvdVSXbxw2FJVB7ae7EsEIJYRtMMfrZIe5tj MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.83.135 with SMTP id q7mr20803718lby.13.1436546083650; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.19.41 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:34:43 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ina Minei To: "Wygant, Mark" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113459220530b3051a87f37f Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , Raveendra Torvi , Ronald Bonica , "Pacella, Dante J" , "Conn, Michael" , "Tomotaki, Luis M" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 16:34:46 -0000 --001a113459220530b3051a87f37f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am not aware of any other IPR. Ina On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Wygant, Mark wrote: > I am not aware of any other IPR. > > Mark Wygant > > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Bonica > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:35 AM > To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org; Raveendra Torvi; > inaminei@google.com; Conn, Michael; Tomotaki, Luis M; Pacella, Dante J; > mark.wygant@verizon.net > Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping > > Loa, > > The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and posted > at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/. > > > Ron Bonica > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --001a113459220530b3051a87f37f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am not awar= e of any other IPR.

Ina=C2= =A0

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Wygant, Mark <mark.wygant@veri= zon.com> wrote:
I am not aw= are of any other IPR.

Mark Wygant

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Bonica
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:35 AM
To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; <= a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-mpls-= self-ping@tools.ietf.org; Raveendra Torvi; inaminei@google.com; Conn, Michael; Tomotaki, Luis M; Pacell= a, Dante J; mark.wygant@verizon.= net
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping

Loa,

The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and posted = at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/.


Ron Bonica

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--001a113459220530b3051a87f37f-- From nobody Fri Jul 10 11:25:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DA01B2A7E for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q_a2Wgix5ptj for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com (omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com [199.249.25.209]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F51E1B2A79 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:25:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=verizon.com; i=@verizon.com; q=dns/txt; s=corp; t=1436552743; x=1468088743; h=from:to:date:subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ORWrB8+Nktq3/l4lgyktURTn0jsQPG72X80HLmkgiUI=; b=mqWO3WI32LOGD3DATbiFVQwv+IfUGIxhNFJqzupc3pMhCV6BozG4EqT+ cjy1g3iFl+gU9nbCgW5LKwhLnZU5Euf2c0iDpOKVdSJ1Jc6nvwTg6Gr6p P7IfPGoBEqrOfhN18gZB4Gyy7QudjzR8XAU2b64/Q3NZEoTZUgjWY4WgF Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from omzsmtpi02.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.172]) by omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2015 18:25:41 +0000 From: "Conn, Michael" To: Ronald Bonica , Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , Raveendra Torvi , "inaminei@google.com" , "Tomotaki, Luis M" , "Pacella, Dante J" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,448,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="448394189" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb05.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.192]) by omzsmtpi02.vzbi.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2015 18:25:03 +0000 Received: from FHDP1LUMXC7V43.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.125.38]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.192]) with mapi; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 14:25:02 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 14:25:01 -0400 Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AdC7Jd9w6TUbe9AITCmB0k7wMI5lZwAF7Lcg Message-ID: <2B7669201D58CD4C8A2150DB12B129CF1692B1280D@FHDP1LUMXC7V43.us.one.verizon.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:25:45 -0000 I am not aware of any other IPR other than what Ron has provided. Michael E Conn Manager Network Planning Office 972 729 6469 =A0 There are two ways to deal with a problem: You can accept it and learn to live with it or you can fix it and learn to live without it. =A0 Which will you choose? -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:35 AM To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mp= ls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org; Raveendra Torvi; inaminei@google.com; Conn, Mi= chael; Tomotaki, Luis M; Pacella, Dante J; mark.wygant@verizon.net Subject: Re: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Loa, The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and posted = at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/. Ron Bonica From nobody Fri Jul 10 14:00:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CA31A00EA for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X4q4kM6qzWOJ for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0783.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:783]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 292C51B2D08 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 13:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DM2PR0501MB1310.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.130.151) by CY1PR05MB1993.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.162.216.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.207.19; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:59:17 +0000 Received: from DM2PR0501MB1310.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.130.151]) by DM2PR0501MB1310.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.130.151]) with mapi id 15.01.0207.004; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:59:17 +0000 From: Raveendra Torvi To: "Conn, Michael" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AQHQuz3Uy9081KPe1kWsBX/KhW/57J3VMBUu Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:59:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <2B7669201D58CD4C8A2150DB12B129CF1692B1280D@FHDP1LUMXC7V43.us.one.verizon.com> In-Reply-To: <2B7669201D58CD4C8A2150DB12B129CF1692B1280D@FHDP1LUMXC7V43.us.one.verizon.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: verizon.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [187.130.75.26] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB1993; 5:hv2yw6rtwIZ0V50Mx9I5Uw3ibJAHE2A89/5X9z3SgGXNHyQWJsDvT+dmYYz3hthypq5zEyOOGl8Fbq1n/UPcvu+np8XLBqrmDBXEFQszLH+tgMOsRMuc8JXawBZEow/zSq5agAmajrG1pDk1uvexiw==; 24:XCSgwG2Kn89XfiP22EJ7zbgo7HqfeDbTizvEDGqd/vLOovVKWRBHh2hH1O1AQWay7sAhQu9PS51FNT4jjTuf9SZgQJt8b/2v20DuIcX7NAQ=; 20:ghMBHjNUasnw0fk1wCUcL/ESLbqO/1PnErcVk2SpTXHDsGOglOVE5xm+KJfAlVA7WJe1p4V4NeWMhjS0OHI17w== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CY1PR05MB1993; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:CY1PR05MB1993; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR05MB1993; x-forefront-prvs: 06339BAE63 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377454003)(24454002)(164054003)(46102003)(36756003)(5002640100001)(77156002)(230783001)(33656002)(66066001)(50986999)(86362001)(83716003)(189998001)(62966003)(2656002)(92566002)(106116001)(87936001)(82746002)(99286002)(76176999)(19580405001)(122556002)(54356999)(40100003)(5001960100002)(2950100001)(19580395003)(102836002)(2900100001)(558084003)(110136002)(77096005)(7059030)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR05MB1993; H:DM2PR0501MB1310.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jul 2015 20:59:17.1258 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR05MB1993 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , Ronald Bonica , "Pacella, Dante J" , "EXT - luis.tomotaki@verizon.com" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 21:00:15 -0000 I am not aware of any other IPR other than what Ron has provided. Thanks, Ravi > On Jul 10, 2015, at 1:25 PM, Conn, Michael w= rote: >=20 > I am not aware of any other IPR other than what Ron has provided. From nobody Fri Jul 10 15:32:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157041A00B4; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DsNv71duD8mB; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233F21A009B; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.4.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150710223212.3484.59688.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:12 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org, rcallon@juniper.net, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] IPR Disclosure Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ) 's Statement about IPR related to draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:32:16 -0000 Dear Greg Mirsky, Jeff Tantsura, Ilya Varlashkin, Mach Chen: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) Directed Return Path" (draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2625/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ) 's Statement about IPR related to draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Fri Jul 10 15:32:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79AB1A0130; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R5FGX14DpsF4; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9FFB1A0126; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.4.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150710223224.4431.10799.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:32:24 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org, rcallon@juniper.net, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] IPR Disclosure Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ) 's Statement about IPR related to draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:32:29 -0000 Dear Greg Mirsky, John Drake, Stewart Bryant, Sasha Vainshtein, Stefano Ruffini, Eric Gray: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Residence Time Measurement in MPLS network" (draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2626/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ) 's Statement about IPR related to draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Sat Jul 11 23:30:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFF11A1B91 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 23:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWGvjL9oOeVN for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 23:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E86A1A1B8A for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 23:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f794d6d000001dfb-23-55a1a1ddd81e Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FC.88.07675.DD1A1A55; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 01:08:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB106.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.123]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 02:29:52 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Weiqiang Cheng , Ross Callon , "wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" , "rajiva@cisco.com" , "yshen@juniper.net" Thread-Topic: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 Thread-Index: AQHQuyK6wPiOuwmPGk6b4QHIj0sV3p3XYKDQ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 06:29:51 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221850C24@eusaamb106.ericsson.se> References: <1436541068914.3exc4loow0astthq4fdz3c0e@android.mail.163.com> In-Reply-To: <1436541068914.3exc4loow0astthq4fdz3c0e@android.mail.163.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221850C24eusaamb106erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SWUwTURSGvbN0hgrJUEGu8GSNEU0MS9RcE2LcoiNGRQ1ITYw0cQRCWdJS xCeKKcYACQUKQllrEKRgEXgQEVkaRTCBNoALCCJQpIqCsgiERTvMC2/fOec79/wPl8Yls4Q3 HR2XyCnj5AqpSEzkqlsiDo4YjaH+8/WHUWFvNYbsOSYCaftsJNLqZ3BUUNRPIt0nDYZ6Vz7j KH/iCFrqqyDQ0ONqEq2vj+No/ckAgRp7SFQ0sSxCD/JwZBtrJtDzqr/EcXc27dsrki21GUWs frWeZNtqflPsC8MIxWpf/yLZiooVjP147z3FZhtnKXahf17E1rYuEyHbr4uDbnGK6CRO6Xcs Qhw1XdINEjQ/QXLXYBfQAPskSAcuNGQOQVP7KCXwTmj7UidKB2JawrwBsE3nAEJRBeCz3BqC t0RMIHTUZ1L8wINxAPjDnEnyBc5kETA9r0DEWzuYK3CgXe9k2mldhY+s8Xzbw7k83mHAeCaY vbC4Vbt52o25ABeLTDjPEuYcHDSsYfyqCxMMc8tkfBs40y29q91cxRkvOGQvw4TUDKxoseIC e8LvExukwFL4Z7WMEvx4+PBfOiaccofdhXZCBzwNW54ybNEMWzSDMwXO7Id1zX6CshvqM8Yo gX1hWnEJtbVfDigToNUqLik2MjCgATh/SCcUnWgC5XNHLYChgdTVrVxmDJWQ8iTV3VgL8KEJ qZebz8W4UAkTKU/kYjgugVPeVKoVnMoCMNrFWwPyK9d9ZzPO+E5xyzkzqY7btdoPowN7PDrC MsLNKdmZG6mXfWN0Tfdl9mDDgqXhK1Bbp+MW5S9NPbLTNXnDOehO8ltrlX+W68ZakKNS9zRc UzwszppJvdx5ree8WRGWcuqkXsMs3NhXmjg1mGOZjM0eGUEb5l1JIXON2zDd2UtSQhUlDziA K1Xy/7A1N1QCAwAA Archived-At: Cc: lifang , "yang.jian90@zte.com.cn" , weiqiang cheng , "mpls@ietf.org" , "huubatwork@gmail.com" , Han Li , "wjf@fiberhome.com.cn" , WANG Lei , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 06:30:00 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221850C24eusaamb106erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z4k50h97KQ3N for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2945A1ACDD8 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wiwl6 with SMTP id l6so78554501wiw.0 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:46:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; 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[80.57.215.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o6sm8100252wiz.16.2015.07.12.03.46.04 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55A24590.3090903@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:46:40 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Mirsky , Weiqiang Cheng , Ross Callon , "wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com" , "rajiva@cisco.com" , "yshen@juniper.net" References: <1436541068914.3exc4loow0astthq4fdz3c0e@android.mail.163.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221850C24@eusaamb106.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221850C24@eusaamb106.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: lifang , "yang.jian90@zte.com.cn" , weiqiang cheng , "mpls@ietf.org" , Han Li , "wjf@fiberhome.com.cn" , WANG Lei , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 10:46:10 -0000
Hello Greg,

Please find in-line some more responses [Huub]
on behalf of the authors.

Note that I snipped agreed proposals.

Regards, Huub.

---8<---

The document is coherent, well written and proposes solution to practical scenario. But I’ve found that the document has certain overlap with draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements at least in large parts of Section 2 of the draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05. I believe it would bebeneficial if both groups of authors work together  to have single informational draft on requirements towards protection in MPLS-TP under multi-failure condition and have Ring and Interconnected Ring discussed as use cases, including requirements toward Ring Switch Protection protocol.
 
[Authors] Thanks a lot for your suggestion. Draft-cui described general requirements of Multi-failure protection, and Draft-cheng addressed some multi-failure scenarios. We will contact authors of draft-cui to see if we can work together with them on a requirements and use cases draft or we can contribute some text to draft-cui.

[Huub] draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements describes use cases
for end-to-end linear protection only, although that is not specifically mentioned
in that draft. It is not applicable to ring protection.
The multiple failure condition in rings is related to link or node failures along the ring.

---8<---

·         Section 4.1.3 bullet 4 is hard to parse and once I’ve interpreted it cannot see it fit logically with other comments to Fig.4
 
[Authors] We will rephrase the section, and make it more clear.

[Huub] we are considering removing bullet 4, it is indeed confusing.

·         Section 4.2
o   I think that proposed protection mechanism uses link OAM and Continuity Check (CC) may be sufficient thus making Connectivity Verification unnecessary;
 
[Authors] Agree, we will change CC-V to CC.

[Huub] in RFC6371 the term CC-V is used. The CC and CV function are combined in the same
OAM packet that is used in pro-active mode.
The SF detected by the CC-V will trigger protection switch. ITU Document

---8<---

·         Section 4.3.1.2 discusses node failure scenario but, in fact, the scenario is not much different from link failure discussed already. I believe that the node failure scenario is most interesting to demonstrate behavior of protection mechanism and data flow when the egress (exit) node is the one that failed. Would wrapping prevent from forming infinite loop? Or wrapping without RSP protocol would create infinite loops? What about TTL handling?
 
[Authors]Agree, we will add some more text to make it more clear.

[Huub] note that wrapping is performed based on the source and destination node information
in the RPS packet and the information in the ring-map present in each ring node.
This will prevent infinite loop.

---8<---

·         Section 6. It may be beneficial to request IANA to create new registry RSP Request Code registry and allocate codes listed in the table on p.25. And define values not listed in the table as Reserved, e.g. 0b0010, 0b0100, 0b0111, etc.
[Authors]Agree, we will add it.

[Huub] we will use the same IANA request as was used for linear protection.
Section 5 of RFC6378. (for consistency).

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From nobody Sun Jul 12 04:00:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D921ACDF0; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 04:00:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u8asmsKmu8yp; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 04:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96CF81ACDED; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicmv11 with SMTP id mv11so41254490wic.1; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 04:00:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=f7xyJifHBqpS2aqx752RagZ8QonNqBZ+j2WWCaM0Rgw=; b=Fq52HRYMjglW5LW/oV4WtfZL8/he68jEvr+OgDdqcoYD5RRE7mRzCsDSHkEyE/XXGI NHvVA/6QukqPCW8d3xFjwEIT86o5QArkKrimCmjpaWmFnxK/Iv6BYfQUtbwWRe8udwzd Xl+gD41BRECFYnW3fI6cHfE8ENX26/CZFoiqVkai/oVJU0sSRnUK68q/CKofToEd03cR vLGuqQRd03z73kSyugKcHhWmkJuDokPZlM5wB0x+n6L9FoIO4ZModZmdLXqdrx6zc5fM HQj2xUIYkxnXqBhiv93LW8pYBG8VxtCFsZTvFaBMpio2ISypBPAx+B29awd9qaNnHdA4 S/vw== X-Received: by 10.194.89.5 with SMTP id bk5mr58658213wjb.144.1436698800373; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 04:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6sm22739378wjf.29.2015.07.12.03.59.58 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55A248D2.1010001@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 13:00:34 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yimin Shen , "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:00:03 -0000
Hello Yimin,

Thank you for your review.
Here is our response: in-line [Huub] on behalf of the authors.

Best regards. Huub.

======
On 10-07-15 03:37, Yimin Shen wrote:
Dear authors, chairs, and WG
 
I’ve been asked by the WG chairs to review draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 for WG adoption. Overall, I think the draft is trying to address a valid MPLS-TP scenario by using a promising solution. However, I have the following comments and questions  for sections 1 to 4, which I would like to request the authors to answer and clarify.
 
  1. Section 2.1 – Recovery of multiple failures
  • This is misleading to me. The draft seems to only be able to handle a single failure per ring, rather than multiple failures per ring. This may need some clarification.
[Huub] Multiple failures means that more than one link or node in the ring can fail. Protection can still be performed
in the "islands" created in this way. A node failure is in fact the same as adjacent link failures.
We can provide more clarification. 
 
  1. I’d like to suggest to change term “exit node†to “egress nodeâ€.
[Huub] OK.
 
  1. Section 4.1 - The ring tunnel layer.
 
  • Given a ring of N nodes, this layer would consist of 4xN ring tunnels. The draft is a little light on the provisioning and management aspects of this layer, while pushing a lot of complexity to this layer.
[Huub] clarifying text can be added. We can add a section describing provisioning the ring-nodes.
  • Each node is traversed by many tunnels. How does it know whether a tunnel is working or protecting,  and whether a tunnel is CW or AW ? How does it associate a working tunnel with a protecting tunnel (to the same egress node, but opposite in direction) ?
[Huub] each node knows this because of the ring-map which contains this information.
  • When an ingress node needs a working tunnel to a particular egress node, how does choose between the CW  tunnel and the AW tunnel, especially when one is significantly longer  (i.e. of higher cost) than the other ?
[Huub] from the ring-map the ingress node knows what the shortest path is and then decides to take the CW or the AW tunnel.
 
  1. The draft describes 4 tunnels (CW, AW, CP, AP) per egress node ? Is it possible to use only 2 tunnels (i.e. CW and AW) and have them protect each other ?
[Huub] mixing working and protecting traffic in a single tunnel would make the RPS protocol more complex.
An egress node cannot make the distinction.
 
  1. Section 4.3.2 -- Short wrapping vs. “traditional wrappingâ€
 
  • Does “traditional wrapping†refer to the scenario in section 4.3.1 ?
[Huub] No it doesn't, section 4.3.1 explains wrapping for link failure and node failure.
[Huub] the description of traditional wrapping is in the first paragraph of section 4.3.2, more clarification can be added.
  • The 4.3.2 mode seems superior to the 4.3.1 mode in all aspects. If so, would there be any value to keep 4.3.1 mode.
[Huub] 4.3.1 explains wrapping methodology, its application is described in 4.3.2.
  • In 4.3.2 mode, CW tunnel ==CP tunnel and AW tunnel == AP tunnel in path topology, correct ? If so, you could reduce the number of tunnels per egress node from 4 to 2 (as comment [4] above), correct ?
[Huub] No, not correct. During a protection switch CW tunnel ==> AP tunnel and AW tunnel ==> CP tunnel.
 
  1. Section 4.3.3
 
  • This is equivalent to “global repair†in MPLS. However, why does the ingress node switch traffic from CW tunnel to AP tunnel instead of AW tunnel ? A working tunnel should be “better†than a protecting tunnel to permanently carry traffic.
[Huub] to operate properly ring protection switching has to be revertive, after repair the traffic should be switched back to working (shortest path)
  1. Section 4.4
 
  • I’m not sure how label swap would work on an interconnection node, as the draft describes it. In Fig-12, in normal state, F receives a packet from ring-1; The top label X is a tunnel to the node group; The next label Y is the service LSP. So, F pops label X, and “ the label used for working ring tunnel R2cW_I will be pushed based on the inner label†(i.e. label Y). How could F have the knowledge about the service LSP, its label Y, and its egress node, etc ?
[Huub] the ring-map has to take care of this.
  • I may have more questions to follow after the above…
 
Regards,
 
Yimin Shen
Juniper Networks

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From nobody Sun Jul 12 05:12:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C261ACE28 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:12:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d3qhyRITCdxi for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53E611ACE27 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgkl9 with SMTP id l9so7545386wgk.1 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:12:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aGlevrykR8DRmG7E/P3cdeu/5BJC88OOQ4KE+VNV2VA=; b=uRMwV2E/DUDF3wmf5K1LNv+cPBeBHMdsZEfAM9Zt3RROXPfmxOq6YnQZUmFZfO4pW8 FcTT0Mo39LIS5Dh/oTyQT+4WVpNfXmNch638BAo3EJ1fP8HxKGw2fzGpok83okcHc6us krgu/FUjS0iNPKJn1z7mtzq3MnwOe1DH8vOsaaooN5h/4o0TntTXpdq5WFXe6J42uFGU Cf0JFPJM6jQVIuiaRymy1SqYR6T/wl8TJrdOni8sEyjZ+jM4LDxKR/svEIhVb4K5YQGC C6VaZpy0WpVQU/Vu4348NQRuHnHSN2jCETIHagXCcB+h8tOBg+Yt0ncyqJpD64k+gZjp Ix2Q== X-Received: by 10.194.91.232 with SMTP id ch8mr7376120wjb.19.1436703131026; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c7sm23068796wjb.19.2015.07.12.05.12.09 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55A259BC.8000109@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 14:12:44 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org References: <20150706235541.13232.58007.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150706235541.13232.58007.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:12:14 -0000 Hello authors of this draft, Triggered by a reference to your draft in another discussion I have read your draft. It describes useful use cases. I would recommend to add to the introduction an explicit statement that these use cases are specifically to end-to-end linear protection. Currently only the abstract briefly mentions this and can easily be overlooked. I also would recommend to add a requirement that any of the n working entities and m protection entities should follow a disjoint path through the network from node A to node Z. Best regards, Huub. > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Use Cases and Requirements for MPLS-TP multi-failure protection > Authors : Zhenlong Cui > Rolf Winter > Himanshu Shah > Sam Aldrin > Masahiro Daikoku > Filename : draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2015-07-06 > > Abstract: > For the Multiprotocol Label Switching Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) > linear protection capable of 1+1 and 1:1 protection has already been > defined. That linear protection mechanism has not been designed for > handling multiple, simultaneously occuring failures, i.e. multiple > failures that affect the working and the protection entity during the > same time period. In these situations currently defined protection > mechanisms would fail. > > This document introduces use cases and requirements for mechanisms > that are capable of protecting against such failures. It does not > specify a multi-failure protection mechanism itself. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls -- ***************************************************************** 请记ä½ï¼Œä½ æ˜¯ç‹¬ä¸€æ— äºŒçš„，就åƒå…¶ä»–æ¯ä¸€ä¸ªäººä¸€æ · From nobody Sun Jul 12 20:38:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996801A0371; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 20:38:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n6nIBunuPm5o; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 20:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D14891A036C; Sun, 12 Jul 2015 20:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mse01.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.3.20]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 7C355A7E7D43B; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:38:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id t6D3cYKJ068124; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:38:34 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn) To: mpls@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:38:34 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP6|November 21, 2013) at 2015-07-13 11:38:22, Serialize complete at 2015-07-13 11:38:22 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0014027548257E81_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn t6D3cYKJ068124 Archived-At: Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] issue about draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping-03 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 03:38:53 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0014027548257E81_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi authors for Segment ID sub-TLVs such as IPv4 Prefix Node Segment ID described in this document, the protocol value would not only be ospf or isis, but also BGP and others. Especially for central spring network, SID is allocated by controller and not distributed on device side, we need a protocol value to address this case. thanks deccan -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited. If you have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediately. --=_alternative 0014027548257E81_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi authors

for Segment ID sub-TLVs such as IPv4 Prefix Node Segment ID described in this document, the protocol value would not only be ospf or isis, but also BGP and others. Especially for central spring network, SID is allocated by controller and not distributed on device side, we need a protocol value to address this case.

thanks
deccan 


--------------------------------------------------------
ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s).  If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediately.

--=_alternative 0014027548257E81_=-- From nobody Mon Jul 13 06:50:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D698A1B2AF1 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 06:50:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qDGSp5un2WUT for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 06:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0D431B2AF2 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 06:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0181B18013E2; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:50:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55A3C21E.5040302@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:50:22 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-farrelll-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt@tools.ietf.org" References: <55828B69.3070603@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <55828B69.3070603@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-farrelll-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt as an MPLS wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:50:29 -0000 Working Group, This working group adoption poll has ended. We have a new working group document. Can the authors please post the draft as draft-ietf-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt, without any other than administrative changes. The working group chairs like to note that we are accepting the document as an Experimental draft (intended to become an Experimental RFC), this means that while we have consensus to accept the document, we also have consensus on that one or more experiments are necessary to reach consensus on what a solution (if any) will look like. /Loa for the wg chairs On 2015-06-18 11:12, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-farrelll- > mpls-opportunistic-encrypt-05 as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > There are no IPR disclosures directly against this document. An IPR > poll has been started in parallel to the adoption poll. > > This poll ends July 2, 2015. > > /Loa > MPLS wg co-chair From nobody Mon Jul 13 08:38:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BE81B2BEF for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:38:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l939fMjw9Vup for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com (omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com [199.249.25.209]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78D081B2B78 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:38:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=verizon.com; i=@verizon.com; q=dns/txt; s=corp; t=1436801906; x=1468337906; h=from:to:date:subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=lpiMCjN4z/s/0NUGTltq5AdYH//xYgiv7Rzo8JK1Yfs=; b=sPoLYQFewbpAWCZcUOIg7iQjpxgGVIqKKIQgvfoheFRUUmoi3MiCz4fv 31BVXkOueuDGtlkmNtN9xcOZgQadKqjvLleFCEd4XD9nuKGwOns47IYy1 GHanLLMl7TrZvhyefIbN+xTMe0FUwJ3yxgea4xu5JJdKRsgdmijs/re46 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from omzsmtpi03.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.173]) by omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com with ESMTP; 13 Jul 2015 15:38:25 +0000 From: "Tomotaki, Luis M" To: Ronald Bonica , Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , Raveendra Torvi , "inaminei@google.com" , "Conn, Michael" , "Pacella, Dante J" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,463,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="456656665" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb04.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.191]) by omzsmtpi03.vzbi.com with ESMTP; 13 Jul 2015 15:38:22 +0000 Received: from FHDP1LUMXC7V91.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.240.155]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.191]) with mapi; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:38:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 11:38:20 -0400 Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AdC7Jd9w6TUbe9AITCmB0k7wMI5lZwCW+FxQ Message-ID: <467340A77F13C944919805BFF3B8ACFC300875D678@FHDP1LUMXC7V91.us.one.verizon.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:38:28 -0000 Loa,=20 I am not aware of any other IPR. =20 Luis Tomotaki=09 -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:35 AM To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mp= ls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org; Raveendra Torvi; inaminei@google.com; Conn, Mi= chael; Tomotaki, Luis M; Pacella, Dante J; mark.wygant@verizon.net Subject: Re: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Loa, The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and posted = at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/. Ron Bonica From nobody Mon Jul 13 09:29:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A43F1B2C2B for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:29:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0krTbstp4hj2 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7457A1B2C29 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8886; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1436804944; x=1438014544; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=elUVMCkpfrov2AgEXS7EjP8rqo+lVd3y4KC7vytAfWY=; b=KL2zqCNF1uZgRb5Eh2tfD2j7AvFeH04uKGDcHvQ27S24ZsadqVTOuPZy f5nfjYlaGcm4mluBFsdH1Ci54kWhWNgssdlZlNs8gs8eb9DkW7MeKi1S4 61QQeRbRFJvQU+FDJC+4VKVyD43/sw1LBQ6t56n5aNnQrFDALo8ZvQy9H 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,463,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217";a="582856468" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Jul 2015 16:29:02 +0000 Received: from [10.55.98.184] (ams-stbryant-8817.cisco.com [10.55.98.184]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6DGT2gg003511; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:29:02 GMT Message-ID: <55A3E750.50104@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:29:04 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <55A3E6F5.7040202@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <55A3E6F5.7040202@cisco.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <55A3E6F5.7040202@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080004090500060402000308" Archived-At: Subject: [mpls] Fwd: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-rmr X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:29:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080004090500060402000308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding to the MPLS list -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-rmr Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:27:33 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com To: Loa Andersson , Jie Dong , Sam Aldrin , Eric Gray , draft-kompella-mpls-rmr@tools.ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org , draft-kompella-mpls-rmr@tools.ietf.org I am sorry this is late. This is an interesting piece of work. Given that it majors on topology and FRR and in many ways MPLS is incidental, I wonder whether it would be best progressed in MPLS or in RTGWG? The proposal is essentially to construct rings within a mesh network and use these for repair. I am in two minds about the work. On the one hand one could ask whether this is really needed given existing work on FRR, on the other hand given that all repair situations are by definition part of a ring sub-topology this potentially has wider applicability than is implied by the authors. Given the above observations, I think that there needs to be a much clearer applicability statement for this work. The draft needs to call out the particular circumstances in which a ring element of a mesh should be abstracted from the mesh for special treatment in this way. It would also be useful explain how the rest of the mesh knows to treat this sub-topology differently. The text itself is well written but I think the MPLS WG needs to discuss the above issues and the chairs need to discuss with the ADs and RTGWG chairs to decide best place to pursue this work. - Stewart On 24/06/2015 17:03, Loa Andersson wrote: > Stewart, Jie, Sam and Eric; > > You have be selected as MPLS-RT reviewers for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-01. > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know > that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own > document. > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > networks), and is the document technically sound? > > We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be > considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this > point, but should be a good start). > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. > > If you have technical comments you should try to be explicit about what > needs to be resolved before adopting it as a working group document, and > what can wait until the document is a working group document and the > working group has the revision control. > > Are you able to review this draft by July 9, 2015? Please respond in a > timely fashion. > > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG chair) -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html . --------------080004090500060402000308 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding to the MPLS list


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-rmr
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:27:33 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>, Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com>, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr@tools.ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, draft-kompella-mpls-rmr@tools.ietf.org 


I am sorry this is late.

This is an interesting piece of work.

Given that it majors on topology and FRR and in many
ways MPLS is incidental, I wonder whether it would be
best progressed in MPLS or in RTGWG?

The proposal is essentially to construct rings
within a mesh network and use these for repair.

I am in two minds about the work. On the one hand one
could ask whether this is really needed given existing
work on FRR, on the other hand given that all repair
situations are by definition part of a ring sub-topology
this potentially has wider applicability than is
implied by the authors.

Given the above observations, I think that there needs
to be a much clearer applicability statement for this work.
The draft needs to call out the particular circumstances
in which a ring element of a mesh should be abstracted from
the mesh for special treatment in this
way. It would also be useful explain how the rest of the mesh
knows to treat this sub-topology differently.

The text itself is well written but I think the MPLS
WG needs to discuss the above issues and the chairs
need to discuss with the ADs and RTGWG chairs to decide
best place to pursue this work.


- Stewart



On 24/06/2015 17:03, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Stewart, Jie, Sam and Eric;
>
> You have be selected as MPLS-RT reviewers for draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-01.
>
> Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know
> that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own
> document.
>
> Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
> useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational 
> networks), and is the document technically sound?
>
> We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be
> considered for WG adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this
> point, but should be a good start).
>
> Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and WG
> secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments
> may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.
>
> If you have technical comments you should try to be explicit about what
> needs to be resolved before adopting it as a working group document, and
> what can wait until the document is a working group document and the
> working group has the revision control.
>
> Are you able to review this draft by July 9, 2015? Please respond in a
> timely fashion.
>
> Thanks, Loa
> (as MPLS WG chair)


-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html

.


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c3Bhbj4gPG86cD48L286cD48L3ByZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+ DQo= --_000_BY2PR0501MB1813CBD233287BFAB1E700C2BD9C0BY2PR0501MB1813_-- From nobody Mon Jul 13 13:34:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791A91A88C3 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:34:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qBZeoMddVRtQ for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B418A1A88BF for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BVD05246; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 20:34:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.72) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 21:34:32 +0100 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml702-chm ([10.193.5.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:34:29 -0700 From: Lucy yong To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AQHQsYkw1DVcb3u46k6AbWtIAzbSEp3Z8uZw Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 20:34:28 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571B7AF0@dfweml701-chm> References: <558FC582.3000103@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <558FC582.3000103@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.145.254] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 20:34:42 -0000 The method requires egress LSRs to generate the reply to ingress LSR. Howev= er it does not mention how ingress to know if egress LSRs support this capa= bility. Does it require all LSRs to support this or need enhancing RSVP-TE/= IGP to indicate the capability? =20 If some LSRs on the LSP path do not support this capability, will ingress L= SR conclude the failure of self-ping? Cheers, Lucy -----Original Message----- From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 5:00 AM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] MPLS working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Working Group, This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-s= elf-ping. Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). An IPR poll has been started in parallel to the wglc. This working group last call ends July 13, 2015. /Loa for the MPLS wg chairs --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Mon Jul 13 17:51:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9210A1A0010 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:51:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7dfrrE6i8Xm for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A481D1A000F for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:51:49 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f799e6d00000329e-7b-55a401a8bb76 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 67.83.12958.8A104A55; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 20:21:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 20:51:42 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time Thread-Index: AQHQuaS5RKM82FBmbkOw6tB75OSQrp3aKv6A Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:51:42 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1122185C159@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <559D5FB8.7010207@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <559D5FB8.7010207@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO4KxiWhBgv/SFisvz6fyeLf3DnM Ft8vLWGxuLV0JasDi8eSJT+ZPGZNb2Pz+HL5M1sAcxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxo+jO5kLvghW nP+2l7mBcYdgFyMnh4SAicT5rw/YIGwxiQv31gPZXBxCAkcZJX7e/swK4SxnlJje+pwdpIpN wEjixcYeMFtEwE5i46t/jCBFzALLgIq2nwIbJSxgKdG5bQtLFyMHUJGVxMoH/hD1RhJL9kxk BbFZBFQlHrXMAJvDK+Ar8XBfNxOILSSgIvHjylWwMZxANT/3/QOLMwJd9/3UGjCbWUBc4taT +UwQVwsAzTzPDGGLSrx8/I8VwlaSmLT0HCvICcwCmhLrd+lDtCpKTOl+CLVWUOLkzCcsExjF ZiGZOguhYxaSjllIOhYwsqxi5CgtTi3LTTcy2MQIjKBjEmy6Oxj3vLQ8xCjAwajEw7vgz+JQ IdbEsuLK3EOM0hwsSuK8jlF5oUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoYi3gDpX7xzI1a o8TFwFoXLON+gkVxcdSk08H86y1jslgVDZfKcJYHnbg5/YkTQ+a7wKCC34bOFfVNM2/veDV/ ZaB6+a9NTeKKckIPtcX9hGQ+MouvaZvjyuQQOelMZ76LXYZtQMqKtGL2iY8/TVnI2uupueTV 7R9K/Lf/pfyfKxo2M7Tga78SS3FGoqEWc1FxIgAGo2LXgQIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:51:51 -0000 RGVhciBMb2EsDQp0aGUgb25seSBJUFIgb2Ygd2hpY2ggSSBhbSBhd2FyZSBvZiBoYXMgYmVlbiBk aXNjbG9zZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgYW5kIHBvc3RlZCBhdCBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmll dGYub3JnL2lwci8yNjI2LyANCg0KCVJlZ2FyZHMsDQoJCUdyZWcNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IExvYSBBbmRlcnNzb24gW21haWx0bzpsb2FAcGkubnVdIA0KU2Vu dDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKdWx5IDA4LCAyMDE1IDEwOjM3IEFNDQpUbzogbXBsc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K Q2M6IG1wbHMtY2hhaXJzQHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnOyBkcmFmdC1taXJza3ktbXBscy1yZXNpZGVu Y2UtdGltZUB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogSVBSIHBvbGwgb24gZHJhZnQtbWlyc2t5 LW1wbHMtcmVzaWRlbmNlLXRpbWUNCg0KV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCwNCg0KQSBwb2xsIHRvIHNlZSBp ZiB3ZSBoYXZlIGNvbnNlbnN1cyB0byBhZG9wdCBkcmFmdC1taXJza3ktIG1wbHMtcmVzaWRlbmNl LXRpbWUgYXMgYW4gTVBMUyB3ZyBkb2N1bWVudCBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdGFydGVkLiBJbiBwYXJhbGxl bCB3ZSB3aWxsIGRvIGFuIElQUiBwb2xsLg0KDQpUaGlzIG1haWwgc3RhcnRzIHRoZSBJUFIgcG9s bC4NCg0KQXJlIHlvdSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byBkcmFmdC1taXJz a3ktIG1wbHMtcmVzaWRlbmNlLXRpbWU/DQoNCklmIHNvLCBoYXMgdGhpcyBJUFIgYmVlbiBkaXNj bG9zZWQgaW4gY29tcGxpYW5jZSB3aXRoIElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIChzZWUgUkZDcyAzOTc5LCA0 ODc5LCAzNjY5IGFuZCA1Mzc4IGZvciBtb3JlIGRldGFpbHMpLg0KDQpUaGVyZSBhcmUgY3VycmVu dGx5IG5vIElQUiBkaXNjbG9zdXJlcyBmaWxlZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQoNCklm IHlvdSBhcmUgbGlzdGVkIGFzIGEgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXV0aG9yIG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yIHBsZWFz ZSByZXNwb25kIHRvIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgcmVnYXJkbGVzcyBvZiB3aGV0aGVyIG9yIG5vdCB5b3Ug YXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSByZWxldmFudCBJUFIuICpUaGUgcmVzcG9uc2UgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUg c2VudCB0byB0aGUgTVBMUyB3ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuKiBUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2lsbCBub3Qg YWR2YW5jZSB0byB0aGUgbmV4dCBzdGFnZSB1bnRpbCBhIHJlc3BvbnNlIGhhcyBiZWVuIHJlY2Vp dmVkIGZyb20gZWFjaCBhdXRob3IgYW5kIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG9uIHRo ZSBNUExTIFdHIGVtYWlsIGxpc3QgYnV0IGFyZSBub3QgbGlzdGVkIGFzIGFuIGF1dGhvciBvciBj b250cmlidXRvciwgdGhlbiBwbGVhc2UgZXhwbGljaXRseSByZXNwb25kIG9ubHkgaWYgeW91IGFy ZSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgaGFzIG5vdCB5ZXQgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQgaW4gY29u Zm9ybWFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJRVRGIHJ1bGVzLg0KDQoNCi9Mb2ENCm1wbHMgd2cgY28tY2hhaXINCi0t IA0KDQoNCkxvYSBBbmRlcnNzb24gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBlbWFpbDogbG9hQG1h aWwwMS5odWF3ZWkuY29tDQpTZW5pb3IgTVBMUyBFeHBlcnQgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIGxvYUBwaS5udQ0KSHVhd2VpIFRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyAoY29uc3VsdGFudCkgICAgIHBob25l OiArNDYgNzM5IDgxIDIxIDY0DQo= From nobody Mon Jul 13 17:52:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3749C1A0015 for ; 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Mon, 13 Jul 2015 20:52:16 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. Thread-Index: AQHQuaSzgjyE5I9E9UiLncQ6nBahV53aKz0g Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:52:16 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1122185C16A@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuO6yr4tDDW5cY7RYf30+k8W/uXOY Lb5fWsJicWvpSlYHFo8lS34yecya3sbm8eXyZ7YA5igum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujBk3FrIXdPBU bPrUy9TA+IC7i5GDQ0LAROLGsbwuRk4gU0ziwr31bF2MXBxCAkcZJVZfmcEI4SxnlJjwbQMb SBWbgJHEi4097CC2iICdxMZX/8CKmAWWMUpM334KrEhYoFBi9ZJlbBBFRRK3H6yHajCS6Lx1 ESzOIqAqseLrehYQm1fAV6Jn8Q9mEFtIQEWi8+VbVhCbE6hm7ZsGRhCbEei876fWMIHYzALi EreezGeCOFtAYsme88wQtqjEy8f/WCFsJYlJS8+xgnzJLKApsX6XPkSrosSU7ofsEGsFJU7O fMIygVFsFpKpsxA6ZiHpmIWkYwEjyypGjtLi1LLcdCPDTYzACDomwea4g3HBJ8tDjAIcjEo8 vA+KFoUKsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREueV9ssLFRJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp1cBY57Tv V/GRjG3eRlJlR1uPKefY8Pb8i2vd8LPj1uuNN2Y1alVWfpjg3PdzU+vX+dPzw47+//z2tJna ScWTfzikFvyovbhVXv5xbmnf/gtNct8Kwidcyjaoc790puf8GpmMcptpwnMWZH5Widzs/O7V 1UNvvn623cFvp7tizh2GG1N+vP8W5DRnsxJLcUaioRZzUXEiAMB/w0+BAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. 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+0900 (JST) Received: from mailsv3.nec.co.jp (imss62.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.157]) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) with ESMTP id t6E2ZNC19004; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:35:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail02.kamome.nec.co.jp (mail02.kamome.nec.co.jp [10.25.43.5]) by mailsv3.nec.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id t6E2ZNLk003257; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:35:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from bpxc99gp.gisp.nec.co.jp ([10.38.151.144] [10.38.151.144]) by mail02.kamome.nec.co.jp with ESMTP id BT-MMP-268808; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:32:37 +0900 Received: from BPXM18GP.gisp.nec.co.jp ([169.254.2.51]) by BPXC16GP.gisp.nec.co.jp ([10.38.151.144]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:32:36 +0900 From: Zhenlong Cui To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt Thread-Index: AdC93MFhS/CXkCR0RcO/G6mrV3Zj9A== Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 02:32:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: ja-JP, en-US Content-Language: ja-JP X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.38.126.83] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 02:35:30 -0000 SGkgSHV1YiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIHZlcnkgaGVscGZ1bCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucy4NCg0K SSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHlvdS4gV2UnbGwgdXBsb2FkIHRoZSBuZXh0IHZlcnNpb24gc2hvcnRseSBh ZnRlciB0aGUgSS1EIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gdG9vbCBpcyByZW9wZW5lZC4NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRz LA0KemhlbmxvbmcNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBIdXVi IHZhbiBIZWx2b29ydCBbbWFpbHRvOmh1dWJhdHdvcmtAZ21haWwuY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiBTdW5k 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IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4gbXBs cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiBtcGxzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tcGxzDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gLS0NCj4gKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioNCj4gICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAg6K+36K6w5L2P77yM5L2g5piv54us5LiA5peg5LqM55qE77yM5bCx5YOP5YW2 5LuW5q+P5LiA5Liq5Lq65LiA5qC3DQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jul 13 23:49:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A6001A8960 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:49:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SrshTS82_53O for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7571D1A883B for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79176d00000321c-76-55a4b0f71293 Received: from ESESSHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1B.9C.12828.7F0B4A55; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:49:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB301.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.222]) by ESESSHC006.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:49:26 +0200 From: Stefano Ruffini To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time Thread-Index: AQHQuaS1TWOdl6LDrUSD5nGNC2ngaZ3ajZhA Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:49:25 +0000 Message-ID: <1B5CAFEB4D81154AA0F020783784C31512873397@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se> References: <559D5FB8.7010207@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <559D5FB8.7010207@pi.nu> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje73DUtCDZ5ukbZYf30+k8W/uXOY Lb5fWsJicWvpSlYHFo8lS34yecya3sbm8eXyZ7YA5igum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujI4ZD1kKvghW /Nk4k6WBcYdgFyMnh4SAicSie9uZIGwxiQv31rOB2EICRxklTn+V6mLkArKXMEosmrwMrIgN qOH54tVgtoiAncTGV/8YQYqYBZYxSkzffgqsW1jAUqJz2xaWLkYOoCIriZUP/CHqjSQevDnE CGKzCKhKNC69wwJi8wr4Smxb85UJYrGKxI8rV8HGcALV/Nz3DyzOKCArMWH3IrBeZgFxiVtP 5kMdLSCxZM95ZghbVOLl43+sELaixNXpy5lATmAW0JRYv0sfolVRYkr3Q3aItYISJ2c+YZnA KDYLydRZCB2zkHTMQtKxgJFlFaNocWpxcW66kbFealFmcnFxfp5eXmrJJkZgZB3c8lt3B+Pq 146HGAU4GJV4eBVyl4QKsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREuedsTkvVEggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAj 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF5E1A8AAD for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mOEicIxdh222 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDCC41A8981 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79706d000007227-50-55a4b15cfecf Received: from ESESSHC024.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F0.55.29223.C51B4A55; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:51:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB301.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.222]) by ESESSHC024.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:51:08 +0200 From: Stefano Ruffini To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. Thread-Index: AQHQuaSyjoZVuX22z0GFpN5LKDrDeJ3aj3fw Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:51:07 +0000 Message-ID: <1B5CAFEB4D81154AA0F020783784C315128733B1@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se> References: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW7sxiWhBluO8Fqsvz6fyeLf3DnM Ft8vLWGxuLV0JasDi8eSJT+ZPGZNb2Pz+HL5M1sAcxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxtet7cwFE3gq ziw9ydLA+IK7i5GTQ0LARKJ11io2CFtM4sK99UA2F4eQwFFGiVfr7kE5Sxglbn9/wARSxQbU 8XzxajBbRMBOYuOrf4wgRcwCyxglpm8/BTZKWKBQYvWSZWwQRUUStx+sZ4ewjSR6nzWD2SwC qhLnTl8Fsjk4eAV8Jc6vCwIJCwmoSHS+fMsKYnMClax908AIYjMKyEpM2L0IzGYWEJe49WQ+ E8TVAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/scKYStKXJ2+nAlkPLOApsT6XfoQrYoSU7ofgl3AKyAocXLmE5YJ jGKzkEydhdAxC0nHLCQdCxhZVjGKFqcWJ+WmGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIExtbBLb8NdjC+ fO54iFGAg1GJh1chd0moEGtiWXFl7iFGaQ4WJXHeGZvzQoUE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8x MnFwSjUwhgS3qbv/qD7PwX7aNmP7pL/HXtxJe/DUd9be2hxv69s67+72hUzpb1TTPfldesby Y0cO/t4YcFhxadUjt5bvj/YtfNC1Tr6u5YsyZ3f+x1PZt0uk1J69fZJ6aQN/vGBqjuLiKu39 msJnAi3e6S9ZdiPluEohy7wZ+poPF+ZN3vzoGqtsTPfbZCWW4oxEQy3mouJEAHapIKCOAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F48F1A9030 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:54:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNoTzOL7a2Y3 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3BE71A902E for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BVD46513; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:54:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.72) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:54:07 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.219]) by SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:54:02 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Nobo Akiya , mpls , "draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 Thread-Index: AQHQtjHWT52rlfiXr0Kwzk1T+HvBqp3UA4fwgAAAHRA= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:54:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Ross Callon Subject: Re: [mpls] Review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 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aGUgcGFja2V0cyBjYW4gcmV0dXJuIGJhY2sgdG8gdGhlIGluZ3Jlc3Mgbm9kZSwgaXQgbWF5IGJl IGEgZ29vZCB0aGluZywgSU1ITy4gDQoNCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KTWFjaA0KDQo+IC1Ob2Jv DQo= From nobody Tue Jul 14 00:56:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F293C1A902D; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:56:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id viiergymh59l; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx6.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD12D1A8FD4; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zte.com.cn (unknown [192.168.168.119]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTP id 2B2009E601ED9; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:52:15 +0800 (CST) Received: from mse01.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.3.20]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 074D272669410; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:56:27 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id t6E7u6N3081855; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:56:06 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn) To: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:56:05 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP6|November 21, 2013) at 2015-07-14 15:55:50, Serialize complete at 2015-07-14 15:55:50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 002B973948257E82_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn t6E7u6N3081855 Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] issues about draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:56:35 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 002B973948257E82_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" hi greg As the document says: "When LSP ping is used to bootstrap BFD session this document updates this and defines that LSP Ping MUST include the FEC corresponding to the destination segment and SHOULD NOT include FECs corresponding to some or all of segment imposed by the initiator. " I think that it likes LDP BFD session establishment. The disadvantage is that at egress LSR we can not support many BFD session when many ingress LSR want to create BFD session with the same egerss LSR at the same time, if all these ingress LSR use same Local Discriminator. In fact, SR-tunnel is a special TE-tunnel, both of them can direct flow along specified forwarding path, only different in signal and label stack depth. The FEC contained in the LSP ping echo request message used to bootstrap SR-tunnel BFD should represent the flow characteristic, such as INGRESS-ID, EGRESS-ID, PATH-ID, etc. Maybe we can reuse TE FEC, such as "RSVP IPv4 LSP" as defined in RFC4379. We can create more PATHs for an SR-tunnel, we can configure SR-tunnel BFD or SR-tunnel PATH BFD. The node/adjacency segment FEC as discussed in draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping are also neccessary for LSP ping/traceroute FEC validation. I would really love your opinion. thanks deccan -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited. If you have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediately. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information contained is strictly prohibited. If you have received this mail in error, please delete it and notify us immediately. --=_alternative 002B973948257E82_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
hi greg

As the document says:

"When LSP ping is used to bootstrap BFD session this document updates
   this and defines that LSP Ping MUST include the FEC corresponding to
   the destination segment and SHOULD NOT include FECs corresponding to
   some or all of segment imposed by the initiator.  "

I think that it likes LDP BFD session establishment. The disadvantage is that at egress LSR we can not support many BFD session when many ingress LSR want to create BFD session with the same egerss LSR at the same time, if all these ingress LSR use same Local Discriminator.

In fact, SR-tunnel is a special TE-tunnel, both of them can direct flow along specified forwarding path, only different in signal and label stack depth. The FEC contained in the LSP ping echo request message used to bootstrap SR-tunnel BFD should represent the flow characteristic, such as INGRESS-ID, EGRESS-ID, PATH-ID, etc. Maybe we can reuse TE FEC, such as "RSVP IPv4 LSP" as defined in RFC4379. We can create more PATHs for an SR-tunnel, we can configure SR-tunnel BFD or SR-tunnel PATH BFD.

The node/adjacency segment FEC as discussed in draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping are also neccessary for LSP ping/traceroute FEC validation.

I would really love your opinion.

thanks
deccan 


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--=_alternative 002B973948257E82_=-- From nobody Tue Jul 14 06:36:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F241ACD15 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r5WPzFM7_-TP for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72F691ACD0C for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by widjy10 with SMTP id jy10so99717347wid.1 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:36:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=ocxtZ229Q2hvSE5/JV3Joc3P4he16sf2RN2X4pPiT74=; b=NxGOksUx84nQEHC4srtx+OVBA87FBC6yZRdm6jnY2zqFa0fWtOKtXbEeVZSdOtHwSF owK4srH+zvo5tkfzu1PkFiBVpbas4+RcRKxP1Zp9v8sy8FzNrCapOCqvErvrPzlh3m/R 9iB69nTXex6QfL5NnzIDbRTtKy5mX+Bkhd8xamf0yx6ZbY5lCTrRyrd0wf9j3DIlgeJp 2JIrtNXQhCH14ynPmTWcXlzrS5IsbgxNAE17nhCVKRnWtCQZzlMSPa9JjJlrjH9kBNUW vID0wOZ4Q3XCDmKosvGMOzk+AI5C8ocKV07z4qRwLchhyC/76iGebCAi0TqNbcQpbiDW shQw== X-Received: by 10.181.13.230 with SMTP id fb6mr5446208wid.47.1436880986154; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:36:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.17.145 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:36:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> References: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 09:36:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c05bcc3b383051ad5ecc9 Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:36:29 -0000 --f46d043c05bcc3b383051ad5ecc9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Loa, I support adoption of this draft. Cheers, Andy On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky- > mpls-residence-time as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have > started an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll. > > This poll ends July 24, 2015. > > /Loa > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --f46d043c05bcc3b383051ad5ecc9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Loa,

I support adoption of this draft.<= div>
Cheers,
Andy

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Wed, Jul 8, 201= 5 at 1:36 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky-
mpls-residence-time as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls= @ietf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have
started an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll.

This poll ends July 24, 2015.

/Loa

--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739= 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--f46d043c05bcc3b383051ad5ecc9-- From nobody Tue Jul 14 07:03:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FC01ACD62; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:03:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.859 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.859 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r0Za5H-zoyci; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail33.telekom.de (tcmail33.telekom.de [80.149.113.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 956061ACD5D; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qdezc2.de.t-internal.com ([10.125.181.10]) by tcmail31.telekom.de with ESMTP; 14 Jul 2015 16:02:53 +0200 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,472,1432591200"; d="scan'208,217";a="294417411" Received: from he113472.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.130]) by qde0ps.de.t-internal.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 14 Jul 2015 16:02:52 +0200 Received: from HE111644.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM ([10.134.93.13]) by HE113472.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:02:51 +0200 From: To: , Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:02:50 +0200 Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 Thread-Index: AdC+PcT+J6C8Nh5rR/SbGsOgRmpbuA== Message-ID: Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AAE428925197FE46A5F94ED6643478FEB1120B3F41HE111644EMEA1_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org, rcallon@juniper.net Subject: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 14:03:13 -0000 --_000_AAE428925197FE46A5F94ED6643478FEB1120B3F41HE111644EMEA1_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I have been selected as reviewer of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky= -mpls-bfd-directed-03. I think the draft is coherent, technically sound and operational useful. It= extents the explicit path capability for the backward direction of _bidire= ctional_ forwarding detection (BFD). The document is ready for WG adoption. Some comments: Section 1.1.1, Terminology: I am not sure, whether the term _MPLS_ is really required in this section. Section 3.1, "Case of MPLS Data Plane": Structure of sub-TLV specification. The whole section describes, that three sub-TLV are specified for usage: "S= tatic", "RSVP-TE" and "Segment Routing". For "Static" and "RSVP-TE", the dr= aft refers to the according RFC (that's fine). But the structure of this se= ction contains only a subsection for "Segment routing" and the reference to= the other sub-TLV is part of this subsection. I propose to add two additio= nal subsections "Static" (3.1.x) and "RSVP-TE" (3.1.x) with the references = and remove it from the subsection "Segment Routing" to be more coherent. Section 3.1.2: "Segment Routing Tunnel Sub-TLV > The section specifies the encoding of the SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the encodi= ng of the label stack elements. I think it makes sense to describe the usag= e of this information in the draft ("copy this information to the label sta= ck"). Is the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases= on his local information or is the encoded label stack strict? Section 3.3: This section confused me. Maybe it should be considered to be rewritten (or= explained specifically to me). Who is the _initiator_ in this case for the BFD reverse path scenario? Section 3.4: "Return Codes" The paragraph repeats the description text of the return code 2 times. The= section specifies, that the egress LSR _MAY_ send back the return code. In= section 3.1.1, last paragraph, the behavior is specified, that the egress = LSR may set up the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the= return code (are the MAYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD sessi= on is set up - see also comment from Nobo?). This implies, that the egress = LSR _MUST_ send the return code, when the reverse path is not known. Section 4 "Use case scenario": The "value N" and "value M" are confusing, because it uses the same vocabul= ary as the nodes in the network example (capital letter). It could be calle= d "foobar" if it is not for interest. Regards. Thomas --_000_AAE428925197FE46A5F94ED6643478FEB1120B3F41HE111644EMEA1_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
 
I think the draft is coherent, technically sound and operational usefu= l. It extents the explicit path capability for the backward direction of _<= i>bidirectional_ forwarding detection (BFD). The document is ready for = WG adoption.
 
Some comments:
 
Section 1.1.1, Terminology:
I am not sure, whether the term _MPLS_ is really required in th= is section.
 
Section 3.1, “Case of MPLS Data Plane”: Structure of sub-T= LV specification.
The whole section describes, that three sub-TLV are specified for usag= e: “Static”, “RSVP-TE” and “Segment Routing&#= 8221;. For “Static” and “RSVP-TE”, the draft refers= to the according RFC (that’s fine). But the structure of this sectio= n contains only a subsection for “Segment routing” and the reference to the other sub-TLV is= part of this subsection. I propose to add two additional subsections ̶= 0;Static” (3.1.x) and “RSVP-TE” (3.1.x) with the referenc= es and remove it from the subsection ”Segment Routing” to be mo= re coherent.
 
Section 3.1.2: “Segment Routing Tunnel Sub-TLV »
The section specifies the encoding of the SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the e= ncoding of the label stack elements. I think it makes sense to describe the= usage of this information in the draft (“copy this information to th= e label stack”). Is the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases on his local information or is the= encoded label stack strict?
 
Section 3.3:
This section confused me. Maybe it should be considered to be rewritte= n (or explained specifically to me).
Who is the _initiator_ in this case for the BFD reverse path sc= enario?
 
Section 3.4: “Return Codes”
The paragraph repeats the description text of the return code 2 times.=   The section specifies, that the egress LSR _MAY_ send back th= e return code. In section 3.1.1, last paragraph, the behavior is specified,= that the egress LSR may set up the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the return code (are the M= AYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD session is set up – se= e also comment from Nobo?). This implies, that the egress LSR _MUST_= send the return code, when the reverse path is not known.
 
Section 4 “Use case scenario”:
The “value N” and “value M” are confusing, bec= ause it uses the same vocabulary as the nodes in the network example (capit= al letter). It could be called “foobar” if it is not for intere= st.
 
Regards.
 
Thomas
 
 --_000_AAE428925197FE46A5F94ED6643478FEB1120B3F41HE111644EMEA1_-- From nobody Tue Jul 14 07:45:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A111E1ACE3A for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FxMG5t-MtOSW for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91D0C1ACE0F for ; Tue, 14 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cmV2aWV3IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYnkgMTQsIDIwMTU/IFBsZWFzZSByZXNwb25kIGluIGEgdGltZWx5 IGZhc2hpb24uDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsIExvYQ0KPiAoYXMgTVBMUyBXRyBjaGFpcikNCj4gLS0N Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiBMb2EgQW5kZXJzc29uICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZW1haWw6IGxv YUBtYWlsMDEuaHVhd2VpLmNvbQ0KPiBTZW5pb3IgTVBMUyBFeHBlcnQgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIGxvYUBwaS5udQ0KPiBIdWF3ZWkgVGVjaG5vbG9naWVzIChjb25zdWx0YW50KSAg ICAgcGhvbmU6ICs0NiA3MzkgODEgMjEgNjQNCg== From nobody Tue Jul 14 09:21:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6F91A1F73 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 09:21:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gm2iCixDe9X0 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 09:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8149C1A21BA for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79706d000007227-90-55a537221d71 Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 18.A7.29223.22735A55; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:21:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB301.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.222]) by ESESSHC015.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.63]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:21:53 +0200 From: Daniele Ceccarelli To: "Andrew G. Malis" , Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. Thread-Index: AQHQuaSzKY8KrkxQ+UazHXkfkzpz953a30EAgABP2TI= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:21:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_vtrwrgxh9aukolo8l7w1d51e1436890909795emailandroidcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6S+dJQg+k/VCxOPz/FZrH++nwm i39z5zBbfL+0hMXi1tKVrA6sHjtn3WX3WLLkJ5PHrOltbB5fLn9mC2CJ4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL 4MpYOm0BY8Fz1Yp3F7+wNjBOVuhi5OSQEDCRaPn6lxnCFpO4cG89WxcjF4eQwFFGiY077jKB JIQEljBKfHxb18XIwcEmYCXx5JAPSFhEwEXi2N9eJpB6ZoGTjBLbO36zgCSEBcoldiz7yQZR VCnx6vYaZpBeEaDey7sTQMIsAqoSrS8WMYLYvAJuEodbjzJDrMqUWNr2FyzOKRAo0b7/BCuI zSggKzFhN0Q9s4C4xIvpJ9ghbhaQWLLnPNT9ohIvH/9jhajJkWh6vAZqvqDEyZlPWCYwisxC 0j4LSdksJGUQcR2JBbs/sUHY2hLLFr5mhrHPHHjMhCy+gJF9FaNocWpxUm66kZFealFmcnFx fp5eXmrJJkZgHB7c8ttgB+PL546HGAU4GJV4eBVyl4QKsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREuedsTkvVEgg PbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAjEwenVAOjfsU56+kiT2btPDl7YXBDdqfNkSqe4y9yPn+pFbvx m3W/8EIWs/h6xzkBwVu4b7nvMuE9eufbedF7LsIXi2Z7GkUFWEWqnn+v8qPkdMADFQ0ZhWXv LvcazX29Ltlmyeb2npT5h987VKd23DVRunFPW/9d0O5o28sOkfeyOPqV793uybTem6OmxFKc kWioxVxUnAgApD3uSaQCAAA= Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] R: Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:21:59 -0000 --_000_vtrwrgxh9aukolo8l7w1d51e1436890909795emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 BR Daniele -------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: "Andrew G. Malis" Data: 14/07/2015 15:36 (GMT+01:00) A: Loa Andersson Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-= time@tools.ietf.org Oggetto: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-= mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. Loa, I support adoption of this draft. Cheers, Andy On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Loa Andersson >= wrote: Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky- mpls-residence-time as an MPLS working group document. Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a tec= hnical motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not be adopted as a working group document. There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have started an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll. This poll ends July 24, 2015. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_vtrwrgxh9aukolo8l7w1d51e1436890909795emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1

BR
Daniele 



-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Data: 14/07/2015 15:36 (GMT+01:00)
A: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-= time@tools.ietf.org
Oggetto: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-= mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document.

Loa,

I support adoption of this draft.

Cheers,
Andy


On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>= wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky-
mpls-residence-time as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls= @ietf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have
started an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll.

This poll ends July 24, 2015.

/Loa

--


Loa Andersson                 =       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                &= nbsp;         loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--_000_vtrwrgxh9aukolo8l7w1d51e1436890909795emailandroidcom_-- From nobody Tue Jul 14 13:40:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371421A8894 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l81jK2_X8umS for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzsmtpe01.verizonbusiness.com (omzsmtpe01.verizonbusiness.com [199.249.25.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 708791A8893 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:40:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=verizon.com; i=@verizon.com; q=dns/txt; s=corp; t=1436906422; x=1468442422; h=from:to:date:subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=luneq0rpMXG3cS642G2OAuV+M82HDcabthCvuWmFjg4=; b=lLa4Fv3eFYp+hM+hjoraL4Nb50vhA8eVGSEDAtzvRXIEncwW75jKLDae Jo1QMJigILCQvPxoJ5sWtoL9n9Kp79TJqfOJqGu8VMHpnkeyid9Zd1TCm +3vqlWHUpnMwhwepub8quzIficAIWJiBtYUbdzJMrFL6OPH3nzA9z4TgT w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from omzsmtpi03.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.173]) by omzsmtpe01.verizonbusiness.com with ESMTP; 14 Jul 2015 20:40:19 +0000 From: "Pacella, Dante J" To: "Tomotaki, Luis M" , Ronald Bonica , Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org" , Raveendra Torvi , "inaminei@google.com" , "Conn, Michael" , "mark.wygant@verizon.net" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,474,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="457841421" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb02.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB02.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.189]) by omzsmtpi03.vzbi.com with ESMTP; 14 Jul 2015 20:40:16 +0000 Received: from FHDP1LUMXC7V33.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.125.34]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB02.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.189]) with mapi; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:40:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:40:15 -0400 Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping Thread-Index: AdC+dUnn6u2qVIyrRJe+KgHoKj4Mfg== Message-ID: References: <467340A77F13C944919805BFF3B8ACFC300875D678@FHDP1LUMXC7V91.us.one.verizon.com> In-Reply-To: <467340A77F13C944919805BFF3B8ACFC300875D678@FHDP1LUMXC7V91.us.one.verizon.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 20:40:24 -0000 Loa, I am not aware of any other IPR. _Dante On 7/13/15, 11:38 AM, "Tomotaki, Luis M" wrote: >Loa,=20 >I am not aware of any other IPR. > >Luis Tomotaki=09 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ronald Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] >Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:35 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org; Raveendra Torvi; >inaminei@google.com; Conn, Michael; Tomotaki, Luis M; Pacella, Dante J; >mark.wygant@verizon.net >Subject: Re: IPR Poll on draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping > >Loa, > >The only IPR of which I am aware has been disclosed to the IETF and >posted at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2476/. > > >Ron Bonica > From nobody Tue Jul 14 17:26:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020491B2FE2 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 17:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8nHCZT7_6YfY for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA1B1B2FDD for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 77B89180470; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 17:22:35 -0700 (PDT) To: david.i.allan@ericsson.com, swallow@cisco.com, jdrake@juniper.net, akatlas@gmail.com, db3546@att.com, aretana@cisco.com, loa@pi.nu, swallow@cisco.com, rcallon@juniper.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 6000:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20150715002235.77B89180470@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 17:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:26:08 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=4415 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: Greg Mirsky Section: text Original Text ------------- bfd.MinRxInterval Corrected Text -------------- bfd.RequestedMinRxInterval Notes ----- Throughout the text document refers to bfd.MinRxInterval even though RFC 5880 refers to this state variable as bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06) -------------------------------------- Title : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile Publication Date : November 2011 Author(s) : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed. Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Multiprotocol Label Switching Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Tue Jul 14 19:33:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423B61B30E2 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:33:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OxFvbYE6Z5nw for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9531D1B30E0 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BVF01457; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:33:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.72) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 03:32:58 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.219]) by SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:32:55 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. Thread-Index: AQHQuaS1Hxv4PpucJECxDpDVxT4kvZ3b2anA Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:32:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <559D5FB2.9060800@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:33:07 -0000 I have read the document and support the adoption. Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 1:37 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt > draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document. >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky- mpls-residence= -time > as an MPLS working group document. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your > support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not= be > adopted as a working group document. >=20 > There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have star= ted > an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll. >=20 > This poll ends July 24, 2015. >=20 > /Loa >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Jul 14 20:03:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C3C1B3108 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uVhRhtOzImVx for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 20:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7A731B3110 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 20:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BYU03866; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 03:03:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 04:03:37 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.69]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:03:34 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-rmr Thread-Index: AQHQrpdOD3Qhj21+LUqS6fmvZXsG453aVg3wgAGh3CA= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 03:03:33 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9277429D12E@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.97.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [mpls] FW: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-rmr X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 03:03:41 -0000 Rm9yd2FyZGluZyB0byB0aGUgTVBMUyBsaXN0Lg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQo+IEZyb206IERvbmdqaWUgKEppbW15KQ0KPiBTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBKdWx5IDE0LCAy 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1815F1A86F3 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:56:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SqqoWK9nl3is for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 993541A872C for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E3F518013BE; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:56:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55A60407.9060108@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:56:07 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RFC Errata System , david.i.allan@ericsson.com, swallow@cisco.com, jdrake@juniper.net, stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, rcallon@juniper.net References: <20130521141350.EF4F862100@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20130521141350.EF4F862100@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org, alan.davey@metaswitch.com Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 06:56:15 -0000 Folks, The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :), John, George and/or Dave. /Loa On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, > "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=3629 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Alan Davey > > Section: 3.5.3 > > Original Text > ------------- > The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9]. > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > The length is the length of the data following the length field. The Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9]. > > > Notes > ----- > > > Instructions: > ------------- > This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile > Publication Date : November 2011 > Author(s) : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed. > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Multiprotocol Label Switching > Area : Routing > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > From nobody Tue Jul 14 23:57:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6955C1A873D for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:57:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wYtOY9vvxLvf for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C728B1A8737 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0EA3318013BE; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:57:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55A60464.20708@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:57:40 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RFC Errata System , david.i.allan@ericsson.com, swallow@cisco.com, jdrake@juniper.net, stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, rcallon@juniper.net References: <20130521141350.EF4F862100@rfc-editor.org> <55A60407.9060108@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <55A60407.9060108@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org, alan.davey@metaswitch.com Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 06:57:46 -0000 Folks, Sorry - forget this, wrong errata :(! /Loa On 2015-07-15 08:56, Loa Andersson wrote: > Folks, > > The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :), > John, George and/or Dave. > > /Loa > > On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote: >> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, >> "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote >> Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile". >> >> -------------------------------------- >> You may review the report below and at: >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=3629 >> >> -------------------------------------- >> Type: Technical >> Reported by: Alan Davey >> >> Section: 3.5.3 >> >> Original Text >> ------------- >> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node >> Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9]. >> >> >> Corrected Text >> -------------- >> The length is the length of the data following the length field. The >> Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as >> per [9]. >> >> >> Notes >> ----- >> >> >> Instructions: >> ------------- >> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please >> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or >> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) >> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. >> >> -------------------------------------- >> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06) >> -------------------------------------- >> Title : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity >> Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile >> Publication Date : November 2011 >> Author(s) : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed. >> Category : PROPOSED STANDARD >> Source : Multiprotocol Label Switching >> Area : Routing >> Stream : IETF >> Verifying Party : IESG >> > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Jul 14 23:58:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E6B1A874B for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:58:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ocIjtIgG55Fn for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0051E1A873D for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43CFF18013BE; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:58:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55A60487.2060606@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:58:15 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RFC Errata System , david.i.allan@ericsson.com, swallow@cisco.com, jdrake@juniper.net, akatlas@gmail.com, db3546@att.com, aretana@cisco.com, rcallon@juniper.net References: <20150715002235.77B89180470@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20150715002235.77B89180470@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 06:58:20 -0000 Folks, The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also , John, George and/or Dave. /Loa On 2015-07-15 02:22, RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, > "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=4415 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Editorial > Reported by: Greg Mirsky > > Section: text > > Original Text > ------------- > bfd.MinRxInterval > > Corrected Text > -------------- > bfd.RequestedMinRxInterval > > Notes > ----- > Throughout the text document refers to bfd.MinRxInterval even though RFC 5880 refers to this state variable as bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile > Publication Date : November 2011 > Author(s) : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed. > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Multiprotocol Label Switching > Area : Routing > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > From nobody Wed Jul 15 01:23:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154341A88D9 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 01:23:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qYn4diEf_J9M for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 01:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D9F41A88D6 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 01:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibud3 with SMTP id ud3so33771446wib.0 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 01:23:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:reply-to :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/OIVnNWQtMJS7+WxoyExQE7l+lpoSD/t11N+FdZGxVc=; b=deLbigV3oSh0oYpXYDfC+jyhV3pnpRPrqWBP4hepSWclJ5fE3kdJ9cUcnPnRJZeXVS 3imCcHt9LJEwpPMMpg7QDXzXLgLzNMU+Ec2PtgYeWPOQ2QgokHeNgmXiq73JUsp7hblc hzth6YAG+KyMq9ZIMpSP8AnGgHEUd4qNx6fJb18BL98YQIEZ8tD1P4bV0eeiO6tGZ3w/ V7nFcZ1LBhC+8Ln8XnrgsmocBTVz4jNG8lf7rBXOf2ofGLntVm7ZVnmQJa1tiXxYXTh8 xAnT3pNQwdo4X+6CB+vEQSH34TS5Wib3iT2TuBoTcmLsO2ZbgM7/8LmyJKpLcjkU5/mK FbUQ== X-Received: by 10.180.8.129 with SMTP id r1mr41832641wia.60.1436948615915; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 01:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from McAsterix.local (g215085.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.215.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ea2sm25411914wib.22.2015.07.15.01.23.34 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Jul 2015 01:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55A618B7.7030002@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:24:23 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zhenlong Cui , "draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:23:39 -0000
Hello Zhenlong,

You replied:

Hi Huub,

Thanks for your very helpful suggestions.

I agree with you. We'll upload the next version shortly after the I-D submission tool is reopened.
In the next version I suggest to change this sentence in section 3.1:
OLD
During this time however, the traffic is unprotected until the working entity is restored.
NEW
However, during the time the protection is active the traffic is unprotected until the
working entity is restored.

ITU-T Rec. G.8013/Y.1731 (11/2013) OAM functions and mechanisms for Ethernet based networks Also section 3.1 mentions the reduction of cost. In section 3.1 the increase
of cost is not mentioned.

Best regards, Huub.
 

      

        
-----Original Message-----
From: Huub van Helvoort [mailto:huubatwork@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 9:13 PM
To: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: ##freemail## Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt

Hello authors of this draft,

Triggered by a reference to your draft in another discussion I have read your draft.

It describes useful use cases.

I would recommend to add to the introduction an explicit statement that these use cases are specifically to end-to-end
linear protection.
Currently only the abstract briefly mentions this and can easily be overlooked.

I also would recommend to add a requirement that any of the n working entities and m protection entities should follow
a disjoint path through the network from node A to node Z.

Best regards, Huub.



        

          
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
  This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

         Title           : Use Cases and Requirements for MPLS-TP multi-failure protection
         Authors         : Zhenlong Cui
                           Rolf Winter
                           Himanshu Shah
                           Sam Aldrin
                           Masahiro Daikoku
	Filename        : draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements-05.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2015-07-06

Abstract:
    For the Multiprotocol Label Switching Transport Profile (MPLS-TP)
    linear protection capable of 1+1 and 1:1 protection has already been
    defined.  That linear protection mechanism has not been designed for
    handling multiple, simultaneously occuring failures, i.e. multiple
    failures that affect the working and the protection entity during the
    same time period.  In these situations currently defined protection
    mechanisms would fail.

    This document introduces use cases and requirements for mechanisms
    that are capable of protecting against such failures.  It does not
    specify a multi-failure protection mechanism itself.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-re
quirements/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-require
ments-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-r
equirements-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


        

      

    

    

    
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From nobody Wed Jul 15 03:00:19 2015
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" 
To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document.
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document.
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Hi,

I've read this document and support the adoption.

Best regards,
Jie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 1:37 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;
> draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt
> draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document.
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky- mpls-residence=
-time
> as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group
> mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your
> support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not=
 be
> adopted as a working group document.
>=20
> There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have star=
ted
> an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll.
>=20
> This poll ends July 24, 2015.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> --
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Wed Jul 15 03:06:09 2015
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:05:58 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant 
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To: Loa Andersson , david.i.allan@ericsson.com, swallow@cisco.com,  jdrake@juniper.net, adrian@olddog.co.uk, rcallon@juniper.net
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
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Actually we had better find out what people have implemented.

I agree that the change looks to reflect the intent, but you could
actually implement the text as written, since we have a length
then some fixed field and then a length.

- Stewart

On 15/07/2015 07:56, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :),
> John, George and/or Dave.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote:
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428,
>> "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote 
>> Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=3629
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Alan Davey 
>>
>> Section: 3.5.3
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node 
>> Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> The length is the length of the data following the length field.  The 
>> Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as 
>> per [9].
>>
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>>
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity 
>> Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
>> Publication Date    : November 2011
>> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
>> Area                : Routing
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>
> .
>


-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

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From nobody Wed Jul 15 08:46:31 2015
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From: David Allan I 
To: Loa Andersson , RFC Errata System ,  "swallow@cisco.com" , "jdrake@juniper.net" , "akatlas@gmail.com" , "db3546@att.com" , "aretana@cisco.com" , "rcallon@juniper.net" 
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
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The errata is almost correct. The body suggests the correct text "RequiredM=
inRxInterval" which is correct and as the field is defined in 5880. (not Re=
questedMinRxInterval as appears under corrected text).

Good catch
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:58 PM
To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net=
; akatlas@gmail.com; db3546@att.com; aretana@cisco.com; rcallon@juniper.net
Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)

Folks,

The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also , John, Geor=
ge and/or Dave.

/Loa

On 2015-07-15 02:22, RFC Errata System wrote:
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, "Proactive=20
> Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication=
 for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6428&eid=3D4415
>
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Editorial
> Reported by: Greg Mirsky 
>
> Section: text
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> bfd.MinRxInterval
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> bfd.RequestedMinRxInterval
>
> Notes
> -----
> Throughout the text document refers to bfd.MinRxInterval even though RFC =
5880 refers to this state variable as bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval.
>
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=20
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.=20
> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to=20
> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Che=
ck, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
> Publication Date    : November 2011
> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
> Area                : Routing
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
>


From nobody Wed Jul 15 08:53:15 2015
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From: David Allan I 
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "alan.davey@metaswitch.com" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
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The problem in the original text is the enumeration of fields and reference=
s in the TLV encompassed by the length is split over two sentences. So the =
proposed errata does make it clearer and would be better than simply mungin=
g the two sentences together....

So I'm good with it

Cheers
D

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:56 PM
To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net=
; stbryant@cisco.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk; rcallon@juniper.net
Cc: alan.davey@metaswitch.com; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)

Folks,

The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :), John, Ge=
orge and/or Dave.

/Loa

On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote:
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, "Proactive=20
> Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication=
 for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6428&eid=3D3629
>
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Technical
> Reported by: Alan Davey 
>
> Section: 3.5.3
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node Ident=
ifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> The length is the length of the data following the length field.  The Glo=
bal_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>
>
> Notes
> -----
>
>
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=20
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.=20
> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to=20
> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Che=
ck, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
> Publication Date    : November 2011
> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
> Area                : Routing
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
>


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From: "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" 
To: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-larp
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-larp
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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: David Allan I , Loa Andersson , "RFC Errata System" , "swallow@cisco.com" , "jdrake@juniper.net" , "akatlas@gmail.com" , "db3546@att.com" , "aretana@cisco.com" , "rcallon@juniper.net" 
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
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Hi Dave,
thank you for pointing to my mistake.

Loa,
if the errata cannot be corrected, please feel free to reject and I can re-=
submit with corrected reference to RFC 5880.

	Regards,
		Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: David Allan I=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:46 AM
To: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net=
; akatlas@gmail.com; db3546@att.com; aretana@cisco.com; rcallon@juniper.net
Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)

The errata is almost correct. The body suggests the correct text "RequiredM=
inRxInterval" which is correct and as the field is defined in 5880. (not Re=
questedMinRxInterval as appears under corrected text).

Good catch
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:58 PM
To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net=
; akatlas@gmail.com; db3546@att.com; aretana@cisco.com; rcallon@juniper.net
Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)

Folks,

The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also , John, Geor=
ge and/or Dave.

/Loa

On 2015-07-15 02:22, RFC Errata System wrote:
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, "Proactive=20
> Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication=
 for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6428&eid=3D4415
>
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Editorial
> Reported by: Greg Mirsky 
>
> Section: text
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> bfd.MinRxInterval
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> bfd.RequestedMinRxInterval
>
> Notes
> -----
> Throughout the text document refers to bfd.MinRxInterval even though RFC =
5880 refers to this state variable as bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval.
>
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=20
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.
> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to=20
> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Che=
ck, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
> Publication Date    : November 2011
> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
> Area                : Routing
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
>


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From: Sriganesh Kini 
To: Loa Andersson , Lucy yong , "Kamran Raza (skraza)" , "Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha)" , "draft-kompella-mpls-larp@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
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From nobody Thu Jul 16 01:58:53 2015
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:58:42 +0200
From: Loa Andersson 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
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Greg,

I see no reason that we can't fix this if/when Deborah approves the
errata.

Deborah,

This is in your lap, can you tell us how you want to do this?

/Loa

On 2015-07-15 19:49, Gregory Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> thank you for pointing to my mistake.
>
> Loa,
> if the errata cannot be corrected, please feel free to reject and I can re-submit with corrected reference to RFC 5880.
>
> 	Regards,
> 		Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Allan I
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:46 AM
> To: Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net; akatlas@gmail.com; db3546@att.com; aretana@cisco.com; rcallon@juniper.net
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
>
> The errata is almost correct. The body suggests the correct text "RequiredMinRxInterval" which is correct and as the field is defined in 5880. (not RequestedMinRxInterval as appears under corrected text).
>
> Good catch
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:58 PM
> To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net; akatlas@gmail.com; db3546@att.com; aretana@cisco.com; rcallon@juniper.net
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6428 (4415)
>
> Folks,
>
> The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also , John, George and/or Dave.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2015-07-15 02:22, RFC Errata System wrote:
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, "Proactive
>> Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=4415
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Editorial
>> Reported by: Greg Mirsky 
>>
>> Section: text
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> bfd.MinRxInterval
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> bfd.RequestedMinRxInterval
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>> Throughout the text document refers to bfd.MinRxInterval even though RFC 5880 refers to this state variable as bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval.
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.
>> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to
>> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
>> Publication Date    : November 2011
>> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
>> Area                : Routing
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>


From nobody Thu Jul 16 03:52:25 2015
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:52:24 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
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... but what have people implemented?

- Stewart


On 15/07/2015 16:52, David Allan I wrote:
> The problem in the original text is the enumeration of fields and references in the TLV encompassed by the length is split over two sentences. So the proposed errata does make it clearer and would be better than simply munging the two sentences together....
>
> So I'm good with it
>
> Cheers
> D
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:56 PM
> To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net; stbryant@cisco.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk; rcallon@juniper.net
> Cc: alan.davey@metaswitch.com; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
>
> Folks,
>
> The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :), John, George and/or Dave.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote:
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428, "Proactive
>> Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=3629
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Alan Davey 
>>
>> Section: 3.5.3
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> The length is the length of the data following the length field.  The Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>>
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.
>> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to
>> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
>> Publication Date    : November 2011
>> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
>> Area                : Routing
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>
> .
>


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From nobody Thu Jul 16 06:52:28 2015
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From: David Allan I 
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Loa Andersson , "RFC Errata System" , "swallow@cisco.com" , "jdrake@juniper.net" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "rcallon@juniper.net" 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "alan.davey@metaswitch.com" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
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X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:52:27 -0000

Point taken.=20

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 AM
To: David Allan I; Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; swallow@cisco.com; jdr=
ake@juniper.net; adrian@olddog.co.uk; rcallon@juniper.net
Cc: alan.davey@metaswitch.com; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)

... but what have people implemented?

- Stewart


On 15/07/2015 16:52, David Allan I wrote:
> The problem in the original text is the enumeration of fields and referen=
ces in the TLV encompassed by the length is split over two sentences. So th=
e proposed errata does make it clearer and would be better than simply mung=
ing the two sentences together....
>
> So I'm good with it
>
> Cheers
> D
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:56 PM
> To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;=20
> jdrake@juniper.net; stbryant@cisco.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk;=20
> rcallon@juniper.net
> Cc: alan.davey@metaswitch.com; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
>
> Folks,
>
> The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :), John, =
George and/or Dave.
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote:
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428,=20
>> "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defec=
t Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6428&eid=3D3629
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Alan Davey 
>>
>> Section: 3.5.3
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node Iden=
tifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> The length is the length of the data following the length field.  The Gl=
obal_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>>
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=20
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.
>> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to=20
>> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Ch=
eck, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
>> Publication Date    : November 2011
>> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
>> Area                : Routing
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>
> .
>


--
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html


From nobody Thu Jul 16 10:04:22 2015
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:04:11 +0200
From: Loa Andersson 
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "alan.davey@metaswitch.com" 
Subject: [mpls] Heads Up - Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629) and RFC6428 (4415)
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Folks,

I might have made a mistake that causes a mix up of two errata.

We have a new erratum RFC6428 (4415) sent by Greg. This errata is
active, and we need to respond to it.

We also have an old erratum RFC6428 (3629), this was verified back in
2013. If we want to reopen this we will need a new errata.

What happened was that when I got the new errata I did go back and check
the earlier.

When I intended to respond to the new errata (4415), I responded to the
mail reporting errata (3629). I think all mails have been on the working
group mailing list.

It seems to that some of the comments are on the verified (3629) and
some are on (4415).

Can those of you that participated in the discussion so far verify that
your comments are intended for errata (4415).

/Loa
with the fool's cap on

On 2015-07-16 15:52, David Allan I wrote:
> Point taken.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 AM
> To: David Allan I; Loa Andersson; RFC Errata System; swallow@cisco.com; jdrake@juniper.net; adrian@olddog.co.uk; rcallon@juniper.net
> Cc: alan.davey@metaswitch.com; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
>
> ... but what have people implemented?
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 15/07/2015 16:52, David Allan I wrote:
>> The problem in the original text is the enumeration of fields and references in the TLV encompassed by the length is split over two sentences. So the proposed errata does make it clearer and would be better than simply munging the two sentences together....
>>
>> So I'm good with it
>>
>> Cheers
>> D
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:56 PM
>> To: RFC Errata System; David Allan I; swallow@cisco.com;
>> jdrake@juniper.net; stbryant@cisco.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk;
>> rcallon@juniper.net
>> Cc: alan.davey@metaswitch.com; mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> The errata seems correct, but I'd like the authors to nod also :), John, George and/or Dave.
>>
>> /Loa
>>
>> On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote:
>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428,
>>> "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> You may review the report below and at:
>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=3629
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Type: Technical
>>> Reported by: Alan Davey 
>>>
>>> Section: 3.5.3
>>>
>>> Original Text
>>> -------------
>>> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>>
>>>
>>> Corrected Text
>>> --------------
>>> The length is the length of the data following the length field.  The Global_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>>
>>>
>>> Notes
>>> -----
>>>
>>>
>>> Instructions:
>>> -------------
>>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.
>>> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to
>>> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
>>> Publication Date    : November 2011
>>> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
>>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>>> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
>>> Area                : Routing
>>> Stream              : IETF
>>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>>
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>


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From nobody Fri Jul 17 12:49:48 2015
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From: Alice Russo 
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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:49:42 -0700
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References: <20130521141350.EF4F862100@rfc-editor.org> <55A60407.9060108@pi.nu>  <55A78CE8.9090100@cisco.com>  <55A7E40B.1050101@pi.nu>
To: Loa Andersson 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "rcallon@juniper.net" , RFC Editor , "alan.davey@metaswitch.com" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] Heads Up - Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629) and RFC6428 (4415)
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Loa wrote:
> We also have an old erratum RFC6428 (3629), this was verified back in
> 2013. If we want to reopen this we will need a new errata.

Actually, rather than report a new one, we suggest correcting the =
existing erratum. To do this, simply send a request to the RFC Editor =
that the existing one be reopened. Then, it can be edited as needed by =
the verifying party (in this case, an AD).

Thank you.
RFC Editor/ar=


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" 
To: Yimin Shen , "huubatwork@gmail.com" , "draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05
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--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927742BD4A2NKGEML512MBSchi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable










Hi Yimin, 


 


Thanks for your comments, please see my replies inlined with=
 [Jie].


 


 




From: mpls [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] on beha=
lf of Yimin Shen [yshen@juniper.net]

Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 0:43

To: huubatwork@gmail.com; draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection=
@tools.ietf.org

Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-rin=
g-protection-05












Hi Huub,


 


Thanks for the response.



 


Yes, the ring tunnel layer should deserve =
a greater level of detail in this draft.


 


 


Regarding the =A1=B0ring-map=A1=B1=A1=AD Y=
ou mentioned it in answering  a few of my top questions, but didn=A1=
=AFt elaborate to support your anwers. IMO, the ring map is an
 important piece of your solution as well, and should not be pushed out of =
scope (below). I=A1=AFd like to suggest to decribe what information it cont=
ains, how it is built, how  the information is distributed and synchro=
nized between nodes, etc.



 


[Jie] As show=
n in figure 8 and 9 of the document, the ring-map includes the ring to=
pology and the status of the ring links.  The ring
 topology is configured via NMS, the state of each ring link is monitored b=
y OAM. When there is some failure detected via OAM, such failure informatio=
n is advertised via the RPS protocol. This way, each node gets the ring-map=
 information.


&nbs=
p;


 


=A1=B0Each node SHOULD have a ring map containing informat=
ion about the sequence of the nodes around the ring.  The method of co=
nfiguring the nodes with the ring maps is out of scope of this document.=A1=
=B1


 


 


The entire section 4.4 still remains as a =
problem for me. IMO, the ingress node and the egress node of a service LSP =
has a forwarding adjacency at the service
 LSP level, across the entire ring (or inter-connected rings). The LSP=A1=
=AFs label should be transparent to intermediate ring nodes, and no interme=
diate ring nodes should perform forwarding based this label. Does this matc=
h the goals/requirements of this draft?
 There would be some problems if you want an intermediate ring node (ring i=
nterconnection node in this case) to understand a service LSP label. Also, =
I=A1=AFm not sure how the ring map could help in this case. Therefore, unti=
l I see some clarification, I still don=A1=AFt
 understand how section 4.4 would work in both normal forwarding and protec=
tion mode.



 


[Jie] Agree t=
hat the interconnected ring operation needs more clarification . Actually o=
n the intersection node of two rings, the inner
 label (LSP label) also needs to be swapped, which explains why the interse=
ction node need to check the inner label. This is not explicitly specified =
in the current draft, which may cause some confusion. Some clarificati=
on will be added in next revision.


 


Best regards,


Jie<=
/p>



 


Thanks,


 


/Yimin


 




 






From: Huub van=
 Helvoort [mailto:huubatwork@gmail.com]


Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 7:01 AM

To: Yimin Shen; draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.iet=
f.org

Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-rin=
g-protection-05






 






Hello Yimin,



Thank you for your review.

Here is our response: in-line [Huub] on behalf of the authors.



Best regards. Huub.



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

On 10-07-15 03:37, Yimin Shen wrote:








Dear authors, chairs, and WG






 






I=A1=AFve been asked by the WG chairs to review draft-chen=
g-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 for WG adoption. Overall, I think the d=
raft is trying to address a valid MPLS-TP
 scenario by using a promising solution. However, I have the following comm=
ents and questions  for sections 1 to 4, which I would like to request=
 the authors to answer and clarify.






 




1.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
Section 2.1 =A8C Recovery of multiple failures


=A1=A4       =
 
This is misleading to me. The draft seems to only be able to=
 handle a single failure per ring, rather than multiple failures per ring. =
This may need some clarification.




[Huub] Multiple failures means that more than one link or =
node in the ring can fail. Protection can still be performed

in the "islands" created in this way. A node failure is in fact t=
he same as adjacent link failures.

We can provide more clarification.  








 




2.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
I=A1=AFd like to suggest to change term =A1=B0exit node=A1=
=B1 to =A1=B0egress node=A1=B1.


[Huub] OK.








 




3.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
Section 4.1 - The ring tunnel layer.





 




=A1=A4       =
 
Given a ring of N nodes, this layer would consist of 4xN rin=
g tunnels. The draft is a little light on the provisioning and management a=
spects of this layer, while pushing
 a lot of complexity to this layer.


[Huub] clarifying text can be added. We can add a section =
describing provisioning the ring-nodes.






=A1=A4       =
 
Each node is traversed by many tunnels. How does it know whe=
ther a tunnel is working or protecting,  and whether a tunnel is CW or=
 AW ? How does it associate a working tunnel
 with a protecting tunnel (to the same egress node, but opposite in directi=
on) ?


[Huub] each node knows this because of the ring-map which =
contains this information.






=A1=A4       =
 
When an ingress node needs a working tunnel to a particular =
egress node, how does choose between the CW  tunnel and the AW tunnel,=
 especially when one is significantly longer 
 (i.e. of higher cost) than the other ?


[Huub] from the ring-map the ingress node knows what the s=
hortest path is and then decides to take the CW or the AW tunnel.







 




4.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
The draft describes 4 tunnels (CW, AW, CP, AP) per egress no=
de ? Is it possible to use only 2 tunnels (i.e. CW and AW) and have them pr=
otect each other ?


[Huub] mixing working and protecting traffic in a single t=
unnel would make the RPS protocol more complex.


An egress node cannot make the distinction.








 




5.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
Section 4.3.2 -- Short wrapping vs. =A1=B0traditional wrappi=
ng=A1=B1




 




=A1=A4       =
 
Does =A1=B0traditional wrapping=A1=B1 refer to the scenario =
in section 4.3.1 ?


[Huub] No it doesn't, section 4.3.1 explains wrapping for =
link failure and node failure.


[Huub] the description of traditional wrapping is in the first paragraph of=
 section 4.3.2, more clarification can be added.






=A1=A4       =
 
The 4.3.2 mode seems superior to the 4.3.1 mode in all aspec=
ts. If so, would there be any value to keep 4.3.1 mode.


[Huub] 4.3.1 explains wrapping methodology, its applicatio=
n is described in 4.3.2.






=A1=A4       =
 
In 4.3.2 mode, CW tunnel =3D=3DCP tunnel and AW tunnel =3D=
=3D AP tunnel in path topology, correct ? If so, you could reduce the numbe=
r of tunnels per egress node from 4 to 2 (as
 comment [4] above), correct ?


[Huub] No, not correct. During a protection switch CW tunn=
el =3D=3D> AP tunnel and AW tunnel =3D=3D> CP tunnel.








 




6.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
Section 4.3.3




 




=A1=A4       =
 
This is equivalent to =A1=B0global repair=A1=B1 in MPLS. How=
ever, why does the ingress node switch traffic from CW tunnel to AP tunnel =
instead of AW tunnel ? A working tunnel should
 be =A1=B0better=A1=B1 than a protecting tunnel to permanently carry traffi=
c.


[Huub] to operate properly ring protection switching has t=
o be revertive, after repair the traffic should be switched back to working=
 (shortest path)







7.<=
span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     &n=
bsp;
Section 4.4




 




=A1=A4       =
 
I=A1=AFm not sure how label swap would work on an interconne=
ction node, as the draft describes it. In Fig-12, in normal state, F receiv=
es a packet from ring-1; The top label
 X is a tunnel to the node group; The next label Y is the service LSP. So, =
F pops label X, and =A1=B0 the label used for working ring tunnel R2cW_I wi=
ll be pushed based on the inner label=A1=B1 (i.e. label Y). How could F hav=
e the knowledge about the service LSP, its
 label Y, and its egress node, etc ?


[Huub] the ring-map has to take care of this.






=A1=A4       =
 
I may have more questions to follow after the above=A1=AD








Regards,






 






Yimin Shen






Juniper Networks













-- 


*****************************************************************

           &nbs=
p;  =C7=EB=BC=C7=D7=A1=A3=AC=C4=
=E3=CA=C7=B6=C0=D2=BB=CE=DE=B6=FE=B5=C4=A3=AC=BE=CD=CF=F1=C6=E4=CB=FB=C3=BF=
=D2=BB=B8=F6=C8=CB=D2=BB=D1=F9 














--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927742BD4A2NKGEML512MBSchi_--


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Subject: Re: [mpls] Heads Up - Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629) and RFC6428 (4415)
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Alice,

Yes that is the right procedure for RFC6428 (3629).

I will lean a bit on Dave and Stewart to see if we need to reopen
it. Let us close loops during the IETF week.

In the mean time errata for RFC6428 (4415) my take is that it is correct
and can be verified.

/Loa



On 2015-07-17 21:49, Alice Russo wrote:
> Loa wrote:
>> We also have an old erratum RFC6428 (3629), this was verified back in
>> 2013. If we want to reopen this we will need a new errata.
>
> Actually, rather than report a new one, we suggest correcting the existing erratum. To do this, simply send a request to the RFC Editor that the existing one be reopened. Then, it can be edited as needed by the verifying party (in this case, an AD).
>
> Thank you.
> RFC Editor/ar
>


From nobody Sun Jul 19 06:10:40 2015
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Archived-At: 
Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05
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Hi Yimin,=20

=20

Thanks a lot for your comments, please see my replies in-line on behalf =
of authors.

=20

B.R.

Weiqiang Cheng

=20

From: Yimin Shen [mailto:yshen@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 11:38 PM
To: Yimin Shen; huubatwork@gmail.com; =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05

=20

Dear authors, chairs,

=20

To summarize, I think the draft is trying to address a valid use case =
with a reasonable approach, but it is not ready for WG adoption at this =
point due to the following issues that I=E2=80=99ve communicated =
earlier.

-          More detail is needed for =E2=80=9Cring tunnel layer=E2=80=9D =
on provisioning and maintaining ring tunnels.=20

[Authors] this was already agreed. I think it is ready for WG adoption, =
the details are for clarification.

=20

-          More detail is needed for =E2=80=9Cring map=E2=80=9D.

-          =20

[Authors] this was already agreed. Clarification will be added.

-          The draft currently covers only 1:1 protection scenario, and =
hence it requires 2 working tunnels + 2 protection tunnels per egress =
node.=20

[Authors] the reason for using 2 W and 2 P tunnels is because the =
protection is bi-directional the traffic in forward and reverse =
direction follow the same path.
The choice for 2 W and 2 P is already explained, it reduces the =
complexity.

However, on a ring topology, people may naturally also ask for 1+1 =
protection (RFC 5654 section 2.5.6), which would need only half number =
of tunnels compared with 1:1 protection.

[Authors] rfc5654 section 2.5.6 requires switching time of less than 50 =
ms for 1+1 and 1:1 ring protection. There is no requirement that it is =
mandatory to support/develop 1+1. 1+1 is the same as UPSR in SONET, 1:1 =
is the same as BLSR in SONET. 1:1 is uses the bandwidth in the network =
much more efficient, and as explained above reduces complexity. For =
packet based technology, it is not necessary to setup a 1+1 solution.

Therefore, it will be very useful if the draft can also discuss 1+1 =
protection (or why it doesn=E2=80=99t work).

[Authors] 1+1 is just one other solution, do we need to discuss all =
possible solutions?
our draft is not a tutorial on ring protection.

In particular, I=E2=80=99d like to mention draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 =
which deals with similar ring topology for MPLS.

[Authors] we are fully aware of that draft, see message:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg14265.html

-          Section 4.4 (i.e. interconnected ring scenario) does not =
work.

[Authors] why does it not work? It has been deployed in operators =
networks.
[Authors] more details will be added regarding the forwarding in =
interconnection node. And we also can consider remove the part from the =
draft and make the part as an independent draft. Is that OK.

=20

The above comments are concerned with section 1 to 4 which describe the =
theory of operation. I think they need to be addressed before further =
review on other sections.

=20

=20

Thanks,

=20

/Yimin

=20

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yimin Shen
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 12:44 PM
To: huubatwork@gmail.com; =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05

=20

Hi Huub,

=20

Thanks for the response.=20

=20

Yes, the ring tunnel layer should deserve a greater level of detail in =
this draft.

=20

Regarding the =E2=80=9Cring-map=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 You mentioned it in =
answering  a few of my top questions, but didn=E2=80=99t elaborate to =
support your anwers. IMO, the ring map is an important piece of your =
solution as well, and should not be pushed out of scope (below). =
I=E2=80=99d like to suggest to decribe what information it contains, how =
it is built, how  the information is distributed and synchronized =
between nodes, etc.=20

=20

=E2=80=9CEach node SHOULD have a ring map containing information about =
the sequence of the nodes around the ring.  The method of configuring =
the nodes with the ring maps is out of scope of this document.=E2=80=9D

=20

=20

The entire section 4.4 still remains as a problem for me. IMO, the =
ingress node and the egress node of a service LSP has a forwarding =
adjacency at the service LSP level, across the entire ring (or =
inter-connected rings). The LSP=E2=80=99s label should be transparent to =
intermediate ring nodes, and no intermediate ring nodes should perform =
forwarding based this label. Does this match the goals/requirements of =
this draft? There would be some problems if you want an intermediate =
ring node (ring interconnection node in this case) to understand a =
service LSP label. Also, I=E2=80=99m not sure how the ring map could =
help in this case. Therefore, until I see some clarification, I still =
don=E2=80=99t understand how section 4.4 would work in both normal =
forwarding and protection mode.=20

=20

=20

Thanks,

=20

/Yimin

=20

=20

From: Huub van Helvoort [mailto:huubatwork@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 7:01 AM
To: Yimin Shen; =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05

=20

Hello Yimin,

Thank you for your review.
Here is our response: in-line [Huub] on behalf of the authors.

Best regards. Huub.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
On 10-07-15 03:37, Yimin Shen wrote:

Dear authors, chairs, and WG

=20

I=E2=80=99ve been asked by the WG chairs to review =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 for WG adoption. Overall, =
I think the draft is trying to address a valid MPLS-TP scenario by using =
a promising solution. However, I have the following comments and =
questions  for sections 1 to 4, which I would like to request the =
authors to answer and clarify.

=20

1.       Section 2.1 =E2=80=93 Recovery of multiple failures

=C2=B7         This is misleading to me. The draft seems to only be able =
to handle a single failure per ring, rather than multiple failures per =
ring. This may need some clarification.

[Huub] Multiple failures means that more than one link or node in the =
ring can fail. Protection can still be performed
in the "islands" created in this way. A node failure is in fact the same =
as adjacent link failures.
We can provide more clarification. =20

=20

2.       I=E2=80=99d like to suggest to change term =E2=80=9Cexit =
node=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cegress node=E2=80=9D.

[Huub] OK.

=20

3.       Section 4.1 - The ring tunnel layer.=20

=20

=C2=B7         Given a ring of N nodes, this layer would consist of 4xN =
ring tunnels. The draft is a little light on the provisioning and =
management aspects of this layer, while pushing a lot of complexity to =
this layer.

[Huub] clarifying text can be added. We can add a section describing =
provisioning the ring-nodes.

=C2=B7         Each node is traversed by many tunnels. How does it know =
whether a tunnel is working or protecting,  and whether a tunnel is CW =
or AW ? How does it associate a working tunnel with a protecting tunnel =
(to the same egress node, but opposite in direction) ?

[Huub] each node knows this because of the ring-map which contains this =
information.

=C2=B7         When an ingress node needs a working tunnel to a =
particular egress node, how does choose between the CW  tunnel and the =
AW tunnel, especially when one is significantly longer  (i.e. of higher =
cost) than the other ?

[Huub] from the ring-map the ingress node knows what the shortest path =
is and then decides to take the CW or the AW tunnel.

=20

4.       The draft describes 4 tunnels (CW, AW, CP, AP) per egress node =
? Is it possible to use only 2 tunnels (i.e. CW and AW) and have them =
protect each other ?

[Huub] mixing working and protecting traffic in a single tunnel would =
make the RPS protocol more complex.=20
An egress node cannot make the distinction.

=20

5.       Section 4.3.2 -- Short wrapping vs. =E2=80=9Ctraditional =
wrapping=E2=80=9D

=20

=C2=B7         Does =E2=80=9Ctraditional wrapping=E2=80=9D refer to the =
scenario in section 4.3.1 ?

[Huub] No it doesn't, section 4.3.1 explains wrapping for link failure =
and node failure.=20
[Huub] the description of traditional wrapping is in the first paragraph =
of section 4.3.2, more clarification can be added.

=C2=B7         The 4.3.2 mode seems superior to the 4.3.1 mode in all =
aspects. If so, would there be any value to keep 4.3.1 mode.

[Huub] 4.3.1 explains wrapping methodology, its application is described =
in 4.3.2.

=C2=B7         In 4.3.2 mode, CW tunnel =3D=3DCP tunnel and AW tunnel =
=3D=3D AP tunnel in path topology, correct ? If so, you could reduce the =
number of tunnels per egress node from 4 to 2 (as comment [4] above), =
correct ?

[Huub] No, not correct. During a protection switch CW tunnel =3D=3D> AP =
tunnel and AW tunnel =3D=3D> CP tunnel.

=20

6.       Section 4.3.3

=20

=C2=B7         This is equivalent to =E2=80=9Cglobal repair=E2=80=9D in =
MPLS. However, why does the ingress node switch traffic from CW tunnel =
to AP tunnel instead of AW tunnel ? A working tunnel should be =
=E2=80=9Cbetter=E2=80=9D than a protecting tunnel to permanently carry =
traffic.

[Huub] to operate properly ring protection switching has to be =
revertive, after repair the traffic should be switched back to working =
(shortest path)=20

7.       Section 4.4

=20

=C2=B7         I=E2=80=99m not sure how label swap would work on an =
interconnection node, as the draft describes it. In Fig-12, in normal =
state, F receives a packet from ring-1; The top label X is a tunnel to =
the node group; The next label Y is the service LSP. So, F pops label X, =
and =E2=80=9C the label used for working ring tunnel R2cW_I will be =
pushed based on the inner label=E2=80=9D (i.e. label Y). How could F =
have the knowledge about the service LSP, its label Y, and its egress =
node, etc ?

[Huub] the ring-map has to take care of this.

=C2=B7         I may have more questions to follow after the =
above=E2=80=A6

 =20

Regards,

=20

Yimin Shen

Juniper Networks

=20

--=20
*****************************************************************
              =
=E8=AF=B7=E8=AE=B0=E4=BD=8F=EF=BC=8C=E4=BD=A0=E6=98=AF=E7=8B=AC=E4=B8=80=E6=
=97=A0=E4=BA=8C=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=B0=B1=E5=83=8F=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E6=AF=
=8F=E4=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E4=B8=80=E6=A0=B7=20

------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01D0C267.52812600
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
Hi Yimin, 
=
 
=
Thanks a lot for your comments, please see my replies in-line on =
behalf of authors.
=
 
B.R.
Weiqiang Cheng
 
From: Yimin Shen [mailto:yshen@juniper.net] 
Sent: Friday, =
July 17, 2015 11:38 PM
To: Yimin Shen; huubatwork@gmail.com; =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
Cc: =
mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] =
MPLS-RT review of =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05
=

 
Dear authors, chairs,
 
To summarize, I think the draft is trying to address a valid use case =
with a reasonable approach, but it is not ready for WG adoption at this =
point due to the following issues that I=E2=80=99ve communicated =
earlier.
-          =
More detail is needed for =E2=80=9Cring tunnel layer=E2=80=9D on =
provisioning and maintaining ring tunnels. 
[Authors] this was already =
agreed. I think it is ready for WG adoption, the details are for =
clarification.
 
-          =
More detail is needed for =E2=80=9Cring =
map=E2=80=9D.
-          =
 
[Authors] this was already =
agreed. Clarification will be added.
-          =
The draft currently covers only 1:1 protection scenario, and hence it =
requires 2 working tunnels + 2 protection tunnels per egress node. =

[Authors] the reason for using =
2 W and 2 P tunnels is because the protection is bi-directional the =
traffic in forward and reverse direction follow the same path.
The =
choice for 2 W and 2 P is already explained, it reduces the =
complexity.
However, on a ring topology, people may naturally also ask for 1+1 =
protection (RFC 5654 section 2.5.6), which would need only half number =
of tunnels compared with 1:1 protection.
[Authors] rfc5654 section 2.5.6 =
requires switching time of less than 50 ms for 1+1 and 1:1 ring =
protection. There is no requirement that it is mandatory to =
support/develop 1+1. 1+1 is the same as UPSR in SONET, 1:1 is the same =
as BLSR in SONET. 1:1 is uses the bandwidth in the network much more =
efficient, and as explained above reduces complexity. For packet based =
technology, it is not necessary to setup a 1+1 =
solution.
Therefore, it will be very useful if the draft can also discuss 1+1 =
protection (or why it doesn=E2=80=99t work).
[Authors] 1+1 is just one other =
solution, do we need to discuss all possible solutions?
our draft is =
not a tutorial on ring protection.
 In particular, I=E2=80=99d like to mention draft-kompella-mpls-rmr-00 which deals with similar ring topology for =
MPLS.
[Authors] we are fully aware of =
that draft, see message:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mpls/current/msg14265.html
-          =
Section 4.4 (i.e. interconnected ring scenario) does not =
work.
[Authors] why does it not work? =
It has been deployed in operators networks.
[Authors] more details =
will be added regarding the forwarding in interconnection node. And we =
also can consider remove the part from the draft and make the part as an =
independent draft. Is that OK.
 
The above comments are concerned with section 1 to 4 which describe =
the theory of operation. I think they need to be addressed before =
further review on other sections.
 
 
Thanks,
 
/Yimin
 
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yimin =
Shen
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 12:44 PM
To: =
huubatwork@gmail.com; =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
Cc: =
mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] =
MPLS-RT review of =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05
=

 
Hi Huub,
 
Thanks for the response. 
 
Yes, the ring tunnel layer should deserve a greater level of detail =
in this draft.
 
Regarding the =E2=80=9Cring-map=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 You mentioned it in =
answering  a few of my top questions, but didn=E2=80=99t elaborate =
to support your anwers. IMO, the ring map is an important piece of your =
solution as well, and should not be pushed out of scope (below). =
I=E2=80=99d like to suggest to decribe what information it contains, how =
it is built, how  the information is distributed and synchronized =
between nodes, etc. 
 
=E2=80=9CEach node SHOULD have a =
ring map containing information about the sequence of the nodes around =
the ring.  The method of configuring the nodes with the ring maps =
is out of scope of this document.=E2=80=9D
 
 
The entire section 4.4 still remains as a problem for me. IMO, the =
ingress node and the egress node of a service LSP has a forwarding =
adjacency at the service LSP level, across the entire ring (or =
inter-connected rings). The LSP=E2=80=99s label should be transparent to =
intermediate ring nodes, and no intermediate ring nodes should perform =
forwarding based this label. Does this match the goals/requirements of =
this draft? There would be some problems if you want an intermediate =
ring node (ring interconnection node in this case) to understand a =
service LSP label. Also, I=E2=80=99m not sure how the ring map could =
help in this case. Therefore, until I see some clarification, I still =
don=E2=80=99t understand how section 4.4 would work in both normal =
forwarding and protection mode. =

 
 
Thanks,
 
/Yimin
 
 
From: Huub van Helvoort [mailto:huubatwork@gmail.com] =

Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 7:01 AM
To: Yimin Shen; =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org
Cc:<=
/b> mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subje=
ct: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05
=

 
Hello Yimin,

Thank you for =
your review.
Here is our response: in-line [Huub] on behalf of the =
authors.

Best regards. Huub.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
On =
10-07-15 03:37, Yimin Shen wrote:
Dear =
authors, chairs, and WG
 =

I=E2=80=99v=
e been asked by the WG chairs to review =
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection-05 for WG adoption. Overall, =
I think the draft is trying to address a valid MPLS-TP scenario by using =
a promising solution. However, I have the following comments and =
questions  for sections 1 to 4, which I would like to request the =
authors to answer and clarify.
 =

1.       =
Section =
2.1 =E2=80=93 Recovery of multiple failures
=C2=B7         =
This is =
misleading to me. The draft seems to only be able to handle a single =
failure per ring, rather than multiple failures per ring. This may need =
some clarification.
[Huub] =
Multiple failures means that more than one link or node in the ring can =
fail. Protection can still be performed
in the "islands" =
created in this way. A node failure is in fact the same as adjacent link =
failures.
We can provide more clarification.  
 =

2.       =
I=E2=80=99d=
 like to suggest to change term =E2=80=9Cexit node=E2=80=9D to =
=E2=80=9Cegress node=E2=80=9D.
[Huub] =
OK.
 =

3.       =
Section =
4.1 - The ring tunnel layer. 
 =

=C2=B7         =
Given a =
ring of N nodes, this layer would consist of 4xN ring tunnels. The draft =
is a little light on the provisioning and management aspects of this =
layer, while pushing a lot of complexity to this =
layer.
[Huub] =
clarifying text can be added. We can add a section describing =
provisioning the ring-nodes.
=C2=B7         =
Each node =
is traversed by many tunnels. How does it know whether a tunnel is =
working or protecting,  and whether a tunnel is CW or AW ? How does =
it associate a working tunnel with a protecting tunnel (to the same =
egress node, but opposite in direction) ?
[Huub] =
each node knows this because of the ring-map which contains this =
information.
=C2=B7         =
When an =
ingress node needs a working tunnel to a particular egress node, how =
does choose between the CW  tunnel and the AW tunnel, especially =
when one is significantly longer  (i.e. of higher cost) than the =
other ?
[Huub] =
from the ring-map the ingress node knows what the shortest path is and =
then decides to take the CW or the AW tunnel.
 =

4.       =
The draft =
describes 4 tunnels (CW, AW, CP, AP) per egress node ? Is it possible to =
use only 2 tunnels (i.e. CW and AW) and have them protect each other =
?
[Huub] =
mixing working and protecting traffic in a single tunnel would make the =
RPS protocol more complex. 
An egress node cannot make the =
distinction.
 =

5.       =
Section =
4.3.2 -- Short wrapping vs. =E2=80=9Ctraditional =
wrapping=E2=80=9D
 =

=C2=B7         =
Does =
=E2=80=9Ctraditional wrapping=E2=80=9D refer to the scenario in section =
4.3.1 ?
[Huub] No =
it doesn't, section 4.3.1 explains wrapping for link failure and node =
failure. 
[Huub] the description of traditional wrapping is in the =
first paragraph of section 4.3.2, more clarification can be =
added.
=C2=B7         =
The 4.3.2 =
mode seems superior to the 4.3.1 mode in all aspects. If so, would there =
be any value to keep 4.3.1 mode.
[Huub] =
4.3.1 explains wrapping methodology, its application is described in =
4.3.2.
=C2=B7         =
In 4.3.2 =
mode, CW tunnel =3D=3DCP tunnel and AW tunnel =3D=3D AP tunnel in path =
topology, correct ? If so, you could reduce the number of tunnels per =
egress node from 4 to 2 (as comment [4] above), correct =
?
[Huub] No, =
not correct. During a protection switch CW tunnel =3D=3D> AP tunnel =
and AW tunnel =3D=3D> CP tunnel.
 =

6.       =
Section =
4.3.3
 =

=C2=B7         =
This is =
equivalent to =E2=80=9Cglobal repair=E2=80=9D in MPLS. However, why does =
the ingress node switch traffic from CW tunnel to AP tunnel instead of =
AW tunnel ? A working tunnel should be =E2=80=9Cbetter=E2=80=9D than a =
protecting tunnel to permanently carry traffic.
[Huub] to =
operate properly ring protection switching has to be revertive, after =
repair the traffic should be switched back to working (shortest =
path) 
7.       =
Section =
4.4
 =

=C2=B7         =
I=E2=80=99m=
 not sure how label swap would work on an interconnection node, as the =
draft describes it. In Fig-12, in normal state, F receives a packet from =
ring-1; The top label X is a tunnel to the node group; The next label Y =
is the service LSP. So, F pops label X, and =E2=80=9C the label used for =
working ring tunnel R2cW_I will be pushed based on the inner =
label=E2=80=9D (i.e. label Y). How could F have the knowledge about the =
service LSP, its label Y, and its egress node, etc =
?
[Huub] the =
ring-map has to take care of this.
=C2=B7         =
I may have =
more questions to follow after the =
above=E2=80=A6
  
Regards,
 =

Yimin =
Shen
Juniper =
Networks
 
-- =

************************************************************=
*****
          =
    =E8=AF=B7=E8=AE=B0=E4=BD=8F=EF=BC=8C=E4=BD=A0=
=E6=98=AF=E7=8B=AC=E4=B8=80=E6=97=A0=E4=BA=8C=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=B0=B1=E5=
=83=8F=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E6=AF=8F=E4=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E4=B8=80=E6=A0=
=B7 

------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01D0C267.52812600--




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From: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" 
To: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: MPLS WG IETF93 agenda requests and status reports
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:16:52 +0000
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Gentle reminder.

Hi authors,

If you are not presenting the update at ietf93, please unicast a short prog=
ress update report (as directed below).

Regards,
Tarek

From: Tarek Saad >
Date: Monday, July 6, 2015 at 3:52 PM
To: "mpls@ietf.org" >
Cc: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" >, Tarek Saad >
Subject: FW: MPLS WG IETF93 agenda requests and status reports

Hi WG,

There seems to be an email delivery problem reaching group I-D recipients..=
 I=92m forwarding the below message to WG alias to make sure it reaches the=
 I-D (co)authors below.

>>
Dear (co)authors of WG/I-D drafts,

In preparation for the MPLS WG agenda for IETF93 in Prague, we are asking y=
ou confirm whether you will require a time slot off the agenda to present t=
he update for the Individual/WG drafts you are driving (ignore if already a=
sked for a slot).
WG Draft authors are expected to present if there are open issues to discus=
s, or to send a status report a week prior to the WG meeting that includes:=
 any changes that have recently been made, any open discussions or issues, =
 planned next steps, and a schedule.

Please send your agenda requests by responding to this email as soon as pos=
sible. Include draft name, and who will be presenting. A tentative agenda w=
ill be uploaded on July 6th.
Slides will be due on Sunday July 19, 2015. (Send slides to the addresses c=
c'ed above.)

Regards,
Tarek

WG docs:
draft-ietf-mpls-mldp-node-protection@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-app-aware-tldp@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-entropy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-mrt@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-self-ping@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-linear-protection-mib@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org;

I-Ds:
draft-beeram-mpls-rsvp-te-scaling@tools.ietf.org;
draft-bryant-mpls-flow-ident@tools.ietf.org;
draft-bryant-mpls-rfc6374-over-udp@tools.ietf.org;
draft-bryant-mpls-sfl-control@tools.ietf.org;
draft-chandra-mpls-enhanced-frr-bypass@tools.ietf.org;
draft-cheng-mpls-tp-shared-ring-protection@tools.ietf.org;
draft-cui-mpls-tp-mfp-use-case-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org;
draft-dai-mpls-rsvp-te-mbb-label-reuse@tools.ietf.org;
draft-esale-mpls-ldp-node-frr@tools.ietf.org;
draft-fang-mpls-hsdn-for-hsdc@tools.ietf.org;
draft-farrelll-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt@tools.ietf.org;
draft-hao-mpls-ip-hard-pipe@tools.ietf.org;
draft-jacob-mpls-ethldp@tools.ietf.org;
draft-kompella-mpls-larp@tools.ietf.org;
draft-kompella-mpls-rmr@tools.ietf.org;
draft-kompella-mpls-rsvp-ecmp@tools.ietf.org;
draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org;
draft-mda-mpls-tp-p2mp-oam-framework@tools.ietf.org;
draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org;
draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte@tools.ietf.org;
draft-ncrsht-mpls-unique-and-consistent-label-ldp@tools.ietf.org;
draft-openconfig-mpls-consolidated-model@tools.ietf.org;
draft-raszuk-mpls-domain-wide-labels@tools.ietf.org;
draft-raza-mpls-ldp-mldp-yang@tools.ietf.org;
draft-sboyapati-mpls-lmdm@tools.ietf.org;
draft-tiruveedhula-mpls-mldp-mib@tools.ietf.org;
draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling@tools.ietf.org;
draft-you-mpls-spring-sfc-oam@tools.ietf.org;
draft-zhang-mpls-lspdb-yang@tools.ietf.org;
draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam@tools.ietf.org;
draft-zheng-mpls-lsp-ping-yang-cfg@tools.ietf.org;
draft-zzhang-mpls-icmp-bier@tools.ietf.org;


--_000_D1D27A87342DAtsaadciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <3BCF3A3F21561A4589C5525A2CD95528@emea.cisco.com>
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Gentle reminder.







Hi authors,







If you are not presenting the update at ietf93, please unicast a short=
 progress update report (as directed below).







Regards,


Tarek









From: Tarek Saad <tsaad@cisco.com>

Date: Monday, July 6, 2015 at 3:52 =
PM

To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@i=
etf.org>

Cc: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, Tarek Saad <tsaad@cisco.com>

Subject: FW: MPLS WG IETF93 agenda =
requests and status reports













Hi WG,







There seems to be an email delivery problem reaching group I-D recipie=
nts.. I=92m forwarding the below message to WG alias to make sure it reache=
s the I-D (co)authors below.







>>







Dear (co)authors of WG/I-D drafts,







In preparation for the MPLS WG agenda for IETF93 in Prague, we are ask=
ing you confirm whether you will require a time slot off the agenda to pres=
ent the update for the Individual/WG drafts you are driving (ignore if alre=
ady asked for a slot).


WG Draft authors are expected to present if there are open issues to d=
iscuss, or to send a status report a week prior to the WG meeting that includes: any change=
s that have recently been made, any open discussions
 or issues,  planned next steps, and a schedule.







Please send your agenda requests by responding to this email as soon a=
s possible. Include draft name, and who will be presenting. A tentative age=
nda will be uploaded on July 6th.


Slides will b=
e due on Sunday July 19, 2015. (Send slides to the addresses cc'ed above.)<=
/span>







Regards,


Tarek











WG docs:




















I-Ds:


















































--_000_D1D27A87342DAtsaadciscocom_--


From nobody Mon Jul 20 01:28:26 2015
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From: Kireeti Kompella 
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:25:14 +0200
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References: 
To: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" 
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2102)
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS WG IETF93 agenda requests and status reports
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Slides for L-ARP.

Will try to send the slides for RMR later today.

Thanks,
Kireeti


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Subject: [mpls] [Errata Verified] RFC6428 (4415)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC6428,
"Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6428&eid=4415

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Greg Mirsky 
Date Reported: 2015-07-14
Verified by: Deborah Brungard (IESG)

Section: text

Original Text
-------------
bfd.MinRxInterval

Corrected Text
--------------
bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval

Notes
-----
Throughout the text document refers to bfd.MinRxInterval even though RFC 5880 refers to this state variable as bfd.RequiredMinRxInterval.

--------------------------------------
RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
Publication Date    : November 2011
Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Santosh Esale 
To: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Update on draft - draft-ietf-mpls-app-aware-tldp
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From: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" 
To: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01.txt
Thread-Index: AQHQuECG25xdRlidTkyQa06LHZAJzJ3k740A
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 14:07:06 +0000
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Cc: Abhishek Deshmukh , Nicholas Tan 
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01.txt
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Hi WG,

We uploaded a new version of the draft. Changes include addition of new
authors and new capability to exchange post failure RSVP Message_IDs
between PLR/MP in advance so RSVP Srefreshes can continue to be used post
failure without need to exchange full RSVP messages.

Comments are welcome.

Regards,
Tarek  =20

On 2015-07-06, 7:07 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
 wrote:

>
>A new version of I-D, draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Tarek Saad and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:		draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte
>Revision:	01
>Title:		RSVP-TE Summary Fast Reroute Extensions for LSP Tunnels
>Document date:	2015-07-06
>Group:		Individual Submission
>Pages:		14
>URL:           =20
>https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpt
>e-01.txt
>Status:        =20
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte/
>Htmlized:      =20
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01
>Diff:          =20
>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte=
-0
>1
>
>Abstract:
>   This document defines RSVP-TE signaling extensions that reduce the
>   amount of RSVP signaling required for Fast Reroute (FRR) procedures
>   and subsequently improve the scalability of the RSVP-TE signaling
>   when undergoing FRR convergence post a link or node failure.  Such
>   extensions allow the RSVP message exchange between the Point of Local
>   Repair (PLR) and the Merge Point (MP) to be independent of the number
>   of protected LSPs traversing between them (eg. when bypass LSP FRR
>   protection is used). The new signaling extensions are fully backwards
>   compatible with nodes that do not support them.
>
>                 =20
>       =20
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>


From nobody Mon Jul 20 07:18:35 2015
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From: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" 
To: "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01.txt
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 14:18:29 +0000
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Cc: Abhishek Deshmukh , "draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte@tools.ietf.org" , Nicholas Tan 
Subject: Re: [mpls] New Version Notification for draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01.txt
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On 2015-07-20, 4:07 PM, "mpls on behalf of Tarek Saad (tsaad)"
 wrote:

>Hi WG,
>
>We uploaded a new version of the draft. Changes include addition of new
>authors and new capability to exchange post failure RSVP Message_IDs
>between PLR/MP in advance so RSVP Srefreshes can continue to be used post
>failure without need to exchange full RSVP messages.
>
>Comments are welcome.
>
>Regards,
>Tarek  =20
>
>On 2015-07-06, 7:07 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>A new version of I-D, draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01.txt
>>has been successfully submitted by Tarek Saad and posted to the
>>IETF repository.
>>
>>Name:		draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte
>>Revision:	01
>>Title:		RSVP-TE Summary Fast Reroute Extensions for LSP Tunnels
>>Document date:	2015-07-06
>>Group:		Individual Submission
>>Pages:		14
>>URL:           =20
>>https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvp
>>t
>>e-01.txt
>>Status:        =20
>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte/
>>Htmlized:      =20
>>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpte-01
>>Diff:          =20
>>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mtaillon-mpls-summary-frr-rsvpt=
e-
>>0
>>1
>>
>>Abstract:
>>   This document defines RSVP-TE signaling extensions that reduce the
>>   amount of RSVP signaling required for Fast Reroute (FRR) procedures
>>   and subsequently improve the scalability of the RSVP-TE signaling
>>   when undergoing FRR convergence post a link or node failure.  Such
>>   extensions allow the RSVP message exchange between the Point of Local
>>   Repair (PLR) and the Merge Point (MP) to be independent of the number
>>   of protected LSPs traversing between them (eg. when bypass LSP FRR
>>   protection is used). The new signaling extensions are fully backwards
>>   compatible with nodes that do not support them.
>>
>>                =20
>>       =20
>>
>>
>>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>submission
>>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>>The IETF Secretariat
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Mon Jul 20 08:55:21 2015
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:55:30 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant 
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Subject: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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I am curious about how much is actually saved with the MPLS dataplane
change proposed in this draft.

If this is used in an Ethernet environment the LSR already needs to
remove and replace the Ethernet header.

In many implementations the datalink header and the MPLS outer
label are part of the same re-write string. So what is the true
gain in writing 14 bytes instead of 18 bytes?

... or is this planned for use with some pt-pt data link other
than Ethernet which is required to be constant end to end?

- Stewart



From nobody Mon Jul 20 09:27:43 2015
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From: Shahram Davari 
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Stewart,

This draft actually saves a lot of memory as it requires only very little M=
PLS entry table and associated processing.
There are only a few Ethernet MAC headers used in MPLS forwarding, typicall=
y one MAC per port, but there can be thousands=20
Of swapped labels. So it is not a matter of 14 bytes vs 18 bytes.

We have seen this requirement come up from various data enter operators in =
Segment routing context.

Thanks
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:55 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it=
 really save?


I am curious about how much is actually saved with the MPLS dataplane
change proposed in this draft.

If this is used in an Ethernet environment the LSR already needs to
remove and replace the Ethernet header.

In many implementations the datalink header and the MPLS outer
label are part of the same re-write string. So what is the true
gain in writing 14 bytes instead of 18 bytes?

... or is this planned for use with some pt-pt data link other
than Ethernet which is required to be constant end to end?

- Stewart


_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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On 7/20/2015 12:27 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> This draft actually saves a lot of memory as it requires only very
> little MPLS entry table and associated processing. There are only a
> few Ethernet MAC headers used in MPLS forwarding, typically one MAC
> per port, but there can be thousands Of swapped labels. So it is not
> a matter of 14 bytes vs 18 bytes.

This seems like purely a local implementation matter.  You still have to 
look up the label, don't you?  If you want to optimize for the case 
where the top label doesn't actually change its value, just use a 
14-byte rewrite string instead of an 18-byte string for those labels, 
and allow multiple label lookups to result in a pointer to the same 
14-byte rewrite string.

I don't really see the point of the draft, as this optimization does not 
require any architecture changes or any protocol changes.


From nobody Mon Jul 20 11:07:17 2015
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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Eric C Rosen , "stbryant@cisco.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 18:07:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Eric,

The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the incoming labe=
l) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft reduces the number of swa=
pped labels that needs to be store, regardless of  implementation. Don't yo=
u agree?


Thanks
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric C Rosen [mailto:erosen@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 10:20 AM
To: Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
Cc: erosen@juniper.net
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?

On 7/20/2015 12:27 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> This draft actually saves a lot of memory as it requires only very
> little MPLS entry table and associated processing. There are only a
> few Ethernet MAC headers used in MPLS forwarding, typically one MAC
> per port, but there can be thousands Of swapped labels. So it is not
> a matter of 14 bytes vs 18 bytes.

This seems like purely a local implementation matter.  You still have to=20
look up the label, don't you?  If you want to optimize for the case=20
where the top label doesn't actually change its value, just use a=20
14-byte rewrite string instead of an 18-byte string for those labels,=20
and allow multiple label lookups to result in a pointer to the same=20
14-byte rewrite string.

I don't really see the point of the draft, as this optimization does not=20
require any architecture changes or any protocol changes.


From nobody Mon Jul 20 11:11:54 2015
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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Shahram Davari , Eric C Rosen , "stbryant@cisco.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped labels.

Thx
SD

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:07 AM
To: Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?

Hi Eric,

The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the incoming labe=
l) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft reduces the number of swa=
pped labels that needs to be store, regardless of  implementation. Don't yo=
u agree?


Thanks
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric C Rosen [mailto:erosen@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 10:20 AM
To: Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
Cc: erosen@juniper.net
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?

On 7/20/2015 12:27 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> This draft actually saves a lot of memory as it requires only very
> little MPLS entry table and associated processing. There are only a
> few Ethernet MAC headers used in MPLS forwarding, typically one MAC
> per port, but there can be thousands Of swapped labels. So it is not
> a matter of 14 bytes vs 18 bytes.

This seems like purely a local implementation matter.  You still have to=20
look up the label, don't you?  If you want to optimize for the case=20
where the top label doesn't actually change its value, just use a=20
14-byte rewrite string instead of an 18-byte string for those labels,=20
and allow multiple label lookups to result in a pointer to the same=20
14-byte rewrite string.

I don't really see the point of the draft, as this optimization does not=20
require any architecture changes or any protocol changes.

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Mon Jul 20 11:44:09 2015
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?

No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an 
outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string 
shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems 
to be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization 
for the particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the 
same value.  You could do this today, as a local implementation 
optimization. There doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change 
to the data plane semantics.

> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped labels.

We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of 
domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide 
labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just 
don't see that it does.


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From: "S. Davari" 
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References: <55AD19F2.1010206@cisco.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73A21@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD2DAD.4060908@juniper.net> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73F3A@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD416D.2020306@juniper.net>
To: Eric C Rosen 
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Eric

I agree no standard change is required since this is a local optimization is=
sue.

Regards,
Shahram


> On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:
>=20
>> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>=20
> No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an ou=
tgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string short=
er, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to be what=
 the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for the particu=
lar case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You co=
uld do this today, as a local implementation optimization. There doesn't see=
m to be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics.
>=20
>> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped label=
s.
>=20
> We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of domain=
-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide labels requir=
es a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see that it d=
oes.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Tue Jul 21 01:03:00 2015
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:02:36 +0200
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To: "S. Davari" 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--001a11c2593cefc06f051b5e141c
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As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA considerations,
this draft should be informational if it goes forward (it currently says
"standards track").

Cheers,
Andy


On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari  wrote:

> Eric
>
> I agree no standard change is required since this is a local optimization
> issue.
>
> Regards,
> Shahram
>
>
> > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
> >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
> >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
> >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
> >
> > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for the
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same
> value.  You could do this today, as a local implementation optimization.
> There doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change to the data plane
> semantics.
> >
> >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped
> labels.
> >
> > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of
> domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide labels
> requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see
> that it does.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--001a11c2593cefc06f051b5e141c
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA =
considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes forward (it c=
urrently says "standards track").

Cheers,
Andy


On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari <davarish@=
yahoo.com> wrote:
Eric



I agree no standard change is required since this is a local optimization i=
ssue.



Regards,

Shahram





> On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:

>

>> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:

>> The new swapped labels (The outgoing=C2=A0 label that replaces the=


>> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft

>> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,

>> regardless of=C2=A0 implementation. Don't you agree?

>

> No.=C2=A0 If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'repla=
ced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the re=
write string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.=
=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an=
 optimization for the particular case where the incoming and outgoing label=
s have the same value.=C2=A0 You could do this today, as a local implementa=
tion optimization. There doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any ch=
ange to the data plane semantics.

>

>> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swappe=
d labels.

>

> We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use o=
f domain-wide labels.=C2=A0 We're discussing whether the use of domain-=
wide labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.=C2=A0 I=
 just don't see that it does.

>

> _______________________________________________

> mpls mailing list

> mpls@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls




_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





--001a11c2593cefc06f051b5e141c--


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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
To: "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:29:01 +0200
Message-ID: 
To: Alexander Vainshtein 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9cc9c5a667347051b5e73a5
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Sasha,

That's why I said "if it goes forward".

Cheers,
Andy

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

>  Andy, Shahram and all,
>
>
>
> I may have missed something, but I do not understand why this draft is
> needed even as an Informational since, as Eric has noticed, it describes a
> local optimization trick.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew G. Malis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:03 AM
> *To:* S. Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA considerations,
> this draft should be informational if it goes forward (it currently says
> "standards track").
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari  wrote:
>
> Eric
>
> I agree no standard change is required since this is a local optimization
> issue.
>
> Regards,
> Shahram
>
>
> > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
> >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
> >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
> >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
> >
> > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for the
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same
> value.  You could do this today, as a local implementation optimization.
> There doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change to the data plane
> semantics.
> >
> >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped
> labels.
> >
> > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of
> domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide labels
> requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see
> that it does.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>

--14dae9cc9c5a667347051b5e73a5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Sasha,

That's why I said "if i=
t goes forward".

Cheers,
Andy
=


On Tue, Jul=
 21, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Va=
inshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:




Andy, Shahram and all,=



=C2=A0


I may have missed somethi=
ng, but I do not understand why this draft is needed even as an Information=
al since, as Eric has noticed, it describes a local optimization
 trick.


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


Regards,


Sasha


=C2=A0


Office: +972-39266302


Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 +972-549266302


Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Alexander.V=
ainshtein@ecitele.com


=C2=A0


From: mpls [ma=
ilto:mpls-bounce=
s@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Andrew G. Malis

Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:03 AM

To: S. Davari

Cc: mpls@ietf.org=


Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0




As there are no architectural or protocol changes or=
 IANA considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes forward=
 (it currently says "standards track").




=C2=A0






Cheers,






Andy






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari <davarish@yahoo.com&g=
t; wrote:


Eric



I agree no standard change is required since this is a local optimization i=
ssue.



Regards,

Shahram





> On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:

>

>> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:

>> The new swapped labels (The outgoing=C2=A0 label that replaces the=


>> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft

>> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,

>> regardless of=C2=A0 implementation. Don't you agree?

>

> No.=C2=A0 If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'repla=
ced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the re=
write string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.=
=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could
 be done as an optimization for the particular case where the incoming and =
outgoing labels have the same value.=C2=A0 You could do this today, as a lo=
cal implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to be any interop i=
ssue or any change to the data plane semantics.

>

>> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swappe=
d labels.

>

> We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use o=
f domain-wide labels.=C2=A0 We're discussing whether the use of domain-=
wide labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.=C2=A0 I=
 just don't see that it does.

>

> _______________________________________________

> mpls mailing list

> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls








_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls








=C2=A0












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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Stewart Bryant 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go
forward.

- Stewart


On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA 
> considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes forward 
> (it currently says "standards track").
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari  > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue.
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen      > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be
>     'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just
>     make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top
>     label on the stack.  This seems to be what the draft suggests, but
>     it could be done as an optimization for the particular case where
>     the incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could
>     do this today, as a local implementation optimization. There
>     doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change to the data
>     plane semantics.
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new
>     swapped labels.
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use
>     of domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of
>     domain-wide labels requires a change in the forwarding plane
>     architecture.  I just don't see that it does.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     > mpls@ietf.org 
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> mpls@ietf.org
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This draft proposes architectural
      changes, and as we can show that

      these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go
      

      forward.

      

      - Stewart

      

      

      On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:

    

    

      
      
As there are no architectural or protocol changes
        or IANA considerations, this draft should be informational if it
        goes forward (it currently says "standards track").
        


        

        
Cheers,

        
Andy

        


        

      

      


        
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S.
          Davari <davarish@yahoo.com>
          wrote:

          
Eric

            

            I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
            optimization issue.

            

            Regards,

            Shahram

            

              

              > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
              wrote:

              >

              >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:

              >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that
              replaces the

              >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table.
              Using this draft

              >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs
              to be stored,

              >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?

              >

              > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to
              be 'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you
              could just make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't
              overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to be
              what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an
              optimization for the particular case where the incoming
              and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could do
              this today, as a local implementation optimization. There
              doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change to the
              data plane semantics.

              >

              >> It also reduces the configuration and management
              of the new swapped labels.

              >

              > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages
              to the use of domain-wide labels.  We're discussing
              whether the use of domain-wide labels requires a change in
              the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see that
              it does.

              >

              > _______________________________________________

              > mpls mailing list

            > mpls@ietf.org

            > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

            

              


                _______________________________________________

                mpls mailing list

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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
To: Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Rolf Winter 
To: "George Swallow (swallow)" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Alexander Vainshtein , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
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Hi,

I think two things are important:

a) implementations that actually set the GAL TTL to 1 remain standards comp=
liant. My reading of the draft says that that is the case. But I would pref=
er George's wording because it does not allow 0 which was the case before.

b) when the GAL is used for section OAM, then setting the TTL to 1 is neces=
sary as it is used for addressing. This is a noteworthy exception to the ru=
le outlined in the document.

Generally, the proposal begs the question "why having all senders change wh=
en the problem seems to be in some receivers".

Best,

Rolf

=20



=20

NEC Europe Ltd | Registered Office: Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End=
  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in England 2832014

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George Swallow
> (swallow)
> Sent: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2015 17:51
> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Alexander Vainshtein; mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: 'Loa Andersson'
> Subject: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
>=20
> Sasha, Adrian -
>=20
> In the abstract this document claims to "clarify" RFC5586.  However it
> actually modifies the behavior in two ways.
>=20
> First in section 4.2.1.1, RFC5586 states:
>=20
>   The TTL field of the GAL LSE MUST be set to at least 1.
>=20
> This can equally be stated as "MUST NOT set the TTL to 0.  However this
> document changes that to "SHOULD NOT".  I see absolutely no reason for
> this change.
>=20
> Second, as per 5586 a receiver that discarded a received GAL with TTL=3D0
> was not out of compliance with that rfc.  Now you say that a receiver
> that a receiver "that examines an LSE that contains the GAL MUST ignore
> the value of the TTL field".
>=20
> So a piece of hardware, say an ASIC, was designed years ago to discard
> packets with a TTL of 0 in the top label is now out of compliance
> whereas in RFC5586 the fault in this situation would lie clearly with
> the sender.
>=20
> Now suppose further that our ASIC is also programmed to put packets
> with a TTL of 1 in the top label on the slow path.  Here the ASIC is
> not ignoring the TTL value - it is making a decision based on it.  It
> is, however, still enabling a CP or RP to process the GAL.  This, of
> course, may not be optimal, but it should not be illegal.
>=20
> So how about we say that "the LER that originates the G-ACh packet
> SHOULD
>    NOT set this value to 1 and MUST NOT set this value to 0."
>=20
> For the receiver, I think it suffices to say "SHOULD ignore the value
> of the TTL field".  But if you want to work a MUST into the language -
> its scope should not include the value 0 and the language should not be
> about "examining".
>=20
> Something like "MUST not discard =A9 based on a TTL value of 1 or more."
>=20
> George
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
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Cc: 'Loa Andersson' , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
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Rolf,

Lots of thanks for your comments.

Please see some answers inline below.



Hopefully these answers will be useful.

Regards,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com





-----Original Message-----
From: Rolf Winter [mailto:Rolf.Winter@neclab.eu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 11:38 AM
To: George Swallow (swallow); adrian@olddog.co.uk; Alexander Vainshtein; mp=
ls@ietf.org
Cc: 'Loa Andersson'
Subject: RE: draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt



Hi,



I think two things are important:



a) implementations that actually set the GAL TTL to 1 remain standards comp=
liant. My reading of the draft says that that is the case.

[[Sasha]] Yes they will remain standard.

But I would prefer George's wording because it does not allow 0 which was t=
he case before.

[[Sasha]] This wording is OK with me.



b) when the GAL is used for section OAM, then setting the TTL to 1 is neces=
sary as it is used for addressing.

This is a noteworthy exception to the rule outlined in the document.

[[Sasha]] I may be missing something but I do not really understand why suc=
h an exception is required.

I assume that by "Section OAM" you refer to the case when the top LSE in th=
e label stack contains GAL.

If this is correct, then this LSE  (being the top one) would be examined by=
 the LSR at the other end of the data link, and the packet immediately iden=
tified as an OAM packet based on the fact that the examined LSE contains GA=
L. Further disposition of this packet would be then decided by the packet t=
ype as encoded in the GACH and, if necessary, buy packet type-specific mean=
s. This would happen regardless of the TTL value in this LSE. Setting it to=
 1 should not really change anything IMHO.



Generally, the proposal begs the question "why having all senders change wh=
en the problem seems to be in some receivers".



Best,



Rolf











NEC Europe Ltd | Registered Office: Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End=
  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in England 2832014



> -----Original Message-----

> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George Swallow

> (swallow)

> Sent: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2015 17:51

> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Alexander Vainshtein=
; mpls@ietf.org

> Cc: 'Loa Andersson'

> Subject: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt

>

> Sasha, Adrian -

>

> In the abstract this document claims to "clarify" RFC5586.  However it

> actually modifies the behavior in two ways.

>

> First in section 4.2.1.1, RFC5586 states:

>

>   The TTL field of the GAL LSE MUST be set to at least 1.

>

> This can equally be stated as "MUST NOT set the TTL to 0.  However

> this document changes that to "SHOULD NOT".  I see absolutely no

> reason for this change.

>

> Second, as per 5586 a receiver that discarded a received GAL with

> TTL=3D0 was not out of compliance with that rfc.  Now you say that a

> receiver that a receiver "that examines an LSE that contains the GAL

> MUST ignore the value of the TTL field".

>

> So a piece of hardware, say an ASIC, was designed years ago to discard

> packets with a TTL of 0 in the top label is now out of compliance

> whereas in RFC5586 the fault in this situation would lie clearly with

> the sender.

>

> Now suppose further that our ASIC is also programmed to put packets

> with a TTL of 1 in the top label on the slow path.  Here the ASIC is

> not ignoring the TTL value - it is making a decision based on it.  It

> is, however, still enabling a CP or RP to process the GAL.  This, of

> course, may not be optimal, but it should not be illegal.

>

> So how about we say that "the LER that originates the G-ACh packet

> SHOULD

>    NOT set this value to 1 and MUST NOT set this value to 0."

>

> For the receiver, I think it suffices to say "SHOULD ignore the value

> of the TTL field".  But if you want to work a MUST into the language -

> its scope should not include the value 0 and the language should not

> be about "examining".

>

> Something like "MUST not discard =A9 based on a TTL value of 1 or more."

>

> George

>

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> mpls mailing list

> mpls@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--_000_DB3PR03MB07804F02663E85853D5AB5059D830DB3PR03MB0780eurp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











Rolf,


Lots of thanks for your comments. 


Please see some answers inline below.


 


Hopefully these answers will be useful.


Regards,


Sasha


 


Office: +972-39266302


Cell:      +972-5492=
66302


Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.c=
om


 


 


-----Original Message-----

From: Rolf Winter [mailto:Rolf.Winter@neclab.eu] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 11:38 AM

To: George Swallow (swallow); adrian@olddog.co.uk; Alexander Vainshtein; mp=
ls@ietf.org

Cc: 'Loa Andersson'

Subject: RE: draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt


 


Hi,


 


I think two things are important:


 


a) implementations that actually set the GAL TTL =
to 1 remain standards compliant. My reading of the draft says that that is =
the case.


[[Sasha]] Yes they will remain standard.


But I would prefer George's wording because it do=
es not allow 0 which was the case before.


[[Sasha]] This =
wording is OK with me.


 


b) when the GAL is used for section OAM, then set=
ting the TTL to 1 is necessary as it is used for addressing.



This is a noteworthy exception to the rule outlin=
ed in the document.


[[Sasha]] I may=
 be missing something but I do not really understand why such an exception =
is required.


I assume that b=
y “Section OAM” you refer to the case when the top LSE in the l=
abel stack contains GAL.


If this is corr=
ect, then this LSE  (being the top one) would be examined by the LSR a=
t the other end of the data link, and the packet immediately identified as =
an OAM packet based on the fact that the
 examined LSE contains GAL. Further disposition of this packet would be the=
n decided by the packet type as encoded in the GACH and, if necessary, buy =
packet type-specific means. This would happen regardless of the TTL value i=
n this LSE. Setting it to 1 should
 not really change anything IMHO.


 


Generally, the proposal begs the question "w=
hy having all senders change when the problem seems to be in some receivers=
".


 


Best,


 


Rolf


 




 


 


 




 


NEC Europe Ltd | Registered Office: Athene, Odyss=
ey Business Park, West End  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in =
England 2832014


 


> -----Original Message-----


> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-=
bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George Swallow


> (swallow)


> Sent: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2015 17:51


> To: <=
span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">adrian@olddog.co.uk; Alexander Vainshtein;
mpls@ietf.org


> Cc: 'Loa Andersson'


> Subject: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc=
-ttl-handling-00.txt


> 


> Sasha, Adrian -


> 


> In the abstract this document claims to &quo=
t;clarify" RFC5586.  However it



> actually modifies the behavior in two ways.<=
o:p>


> 


> First in section 4.2.1.1, RFC5586 states:


> 


>   The TTL field of the GAL LSE MUS=
T be set to at least 1.


> 


> This can equally be stated as "MUST NOT=
 set the TTL to 0.  However



> this document changes that to "SHOULD N=
OT".  I see absolutely no



> reason for this change.


> 


> Second, as per 5586 a receiver that discarde=
d a received GAL with



> TTL=3D0 was not out of compliance with that =
rfc.  Now you say that a



> receiver that a receiver "that examines=
 an LSE that contains the GAL



> MUST ignore the value of the TTL field"=
.


> 


> So a piece of hardware, say an ASIC, was des=
igned years ago to discard



> packets with a TTL of 0 in the top label is =
now out of compliance



> whereas in RFC5586 the fault in this situati=
on would lie clearly with



> the sender.


> 


> Now suppose further that our ASIC is also pr=
ogrammed to put packets



> with a TTL of 1 in the top label on the slow=
 path.  Here the ASIC is



> not ignoring the TTL value - it is making a =
decision based on it.  It



> is, however, still enabling a CP or RP to pr=
ocess the GAL.  This, of



> course, may not be optimal, but it should no=
t be illegal.


> 


> So how about we say that "the LER that =
originates the G-ACh packet



> SHOULD


>    NOT set this value to 1 an=
d MUST NOT set this value to 0."


> 


> For the receiver, I think it suffices to say=
 "SHOULD ignore the value



> of the TTL field".  But if you wan=
t to work a MUST into the language -



> its scope should not include the value 0 and=
 the language should not



> be about "examining".

> 


> Something like "MUST not discard =A9 ba=
sed on a TTL value of 1 or more."


> 


> George


> 


> 


> 


> 


> 


> ____________________________________________=
___


> mpls mailing list


> mpls@ietf.org


> https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls






--_000_DB3PR03MB07804F02663E85853D5AB5059D830DB3PR03MB0780eurp_--


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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 13:14:14 +0200
From: Loa Andersson 
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Subject: [mpls] Fwd: Routing Area YANG Coordinators Wiki
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Folks,,

Forwarding a mail that David S sent to the routing-discussion list,
since everyone might not be subscribed to that list I'm forwarding
it to the working group.

/Loa

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Routing Area YANG Coordinators Wiki
Date: 	Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:21:32 +0000
From: 	David Sinicrope 
To: 	routing-discussion@ietf.org 



Hi All,
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoord
Above is a link to the Routing Area YANG Coordinators area that was
established earlier this year to help track the YANG models being
developed in the iETF Routing Area.
There are a number of resources on the wiki pages, but the coordinators
would like to draw attention specifically to the “Summary of Routing
Area YANG Draftsâ€Â
(The section with the big red text "*** == YANG MODEL AUTHORS LOOK HERE
== ****â€Â*

These tables are intended to help summarize and track the YANG drafts in
the Routing Area.    Draft authors and WG Chairs are requested to keep
the wiki table updated as drafts are created and progressed through the
document development process.  Instructions for completing a table row
for a YANG model draft are provided.

Questions on the instructions should be directed to the Routing Area
YANG Coordinators (Qin Wu​bill.wu@huawei.com
 and David Sinicrope
david.sinicrope@ericsson.com  )

Thanks for your help and support keeping this information up to date.

Thanks,
Dave and Qin

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64



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From nobody Wed Jul 22 06:09:10 2015
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From: "George Swallow (swallow)" 
To: Rolf Winter , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Alexander Vainshtein , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
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Cc: 'Loa Andersson' 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
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Rolf -

Great catch! This exception should be called out in the document
explicitly.

George

On 7/22/15 4:37 AM, "Rolf Winter"  wrote:

>b) when the GAL is used for section OAM, then setting the TTL to 1 is
>necessary as it is used for addressing. This is a noteworthy exception to
>the rule outlined in the document.


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Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] SPRING WGLC of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing
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Dear IS-IS, OSPF, MPLS, 6MAN Working Groups,

As you probably know, SPRING's work relates to your working group, as =
follows:

- IS-IS & OSPF: the draft defines the basis for your WG doc IGP =
extensions (draft-ietf-*-segment-routing-extensions)
- MPLS: MPLS is a data plane of SPRING. The SPRING architecture should =
not impact the MPLS data plane nor architecture, but does have side =
impacts. e.g. OAM, signaling (e.g. entropy label), deeper label stack.
- 6MAN: IPv6 is a proposed data plane of SPRING. It would require a new =
routing extension header to be defined in 6MAN. (+ security implications =
to be studied)

Thus, we anticipate you may have an interest in the SPRING architecture =
document. We are about to begin our working group last call and will cc =
your WGs. This message is to encourage you to review the document and =
comment as needed during the WGLC. Owing to the broad cc, out of respect =
for people's inbox clutter I suggest you respect the reply-to, which =
I've set to the SPRING mailing list, though if you think it's applicable =
feel free to add your own WG list.=20

Thanks,

--Bruno and John=


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Archived-At: 
Cc: isis@ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org, 6man@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] working group last call for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing
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Dear SPRING WG (and cc MPLS, OSPF, IS-IS, 6MAN, please include SPRING in =
replies per the reply-to):

As we discussed at the SPRING meeting yesterday, working group last call =
has been requested for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing. Please reply =
to the list with your comments, including although not limited to =
whether or not you support advancing the document to RFC. Non-authors =
are especially encouraged to comment.

In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on =
concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20

Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and =
if so, whether it has been disclosed. (Please do this even if you've =
done it before, thanks for your help.)

Thanks,

--Bruno and John


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Archived-At: 
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Dear WG,

As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has =
been requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. =
Please reply to the list with your comments, including although not =
limited to whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are =
especially encouraged to comment.

In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on =
concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20

Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and =
if so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author =
list for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming =
the document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this =
when submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply =
the active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for =
the full list.

Thanks,

--Bruno and John

P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.=


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From: Jeff Tantsura 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Yes/support as co-author

Cheers,
Jeff




-----Original Message-----
From: "John G.Scudder" 
Reply-To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:17 AM
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: [mpls] working group adoption call for
draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop

>Dear WG,
>
>As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been
>requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please
>reply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to
>whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially
>encouraged to comment.
>
>In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on
>concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
>Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if
>so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list
>for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the
>document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when
>submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the
>active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the
>full list.
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Bruno and John
>
>P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" 
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Thread-Topic: [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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From nobody Wed Jul 22 06:43:20 2015
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-07.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Enhanced path segment monitoring
        Authors         : Alessandro D'Alessandro
                          Loa Andersson
                          Manuel Paul
                          Satoshi Ueno
                          Kaoru Arai
                          Yoshinori Koike
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-07.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2015-07-22

Abstract:
   The MPLS transport profile (MPLS-TP) has been standardized to enable
   carrier-grade packet transport and complement converged packet
   network deployments.  Among the most attractive features of MPLS-TP
   there are OAM functions, which enable network operators or service
   providers to provide various maintenance characteristics, such as
   fault location, survivability, performance monitoring and in-service/
   out of service measurements.

   One of the most important mechanisms which is common for transport
   network operation is fault location.  A segment monitoring function
   of a transport path is effective in terms of extension of the
   maintenance work and indispensable particularly when the OAM function
   is effective only between end points.  However, the current approach
   defined for MPLS-TP for the segment monitoring (SPME) has some
   drawbacks.  This document elaborates on the problem statement for the
   Sub-path Maintenance Elements (SPMEs) which provides monitoring of a
   portion of a set of transport paths (LSPs or MS-PWs).  Based on the
   problems, this document specifies new requirements to consider a new
   improved mechanism of hitless transport path segment monitoring named
   Enhanced Path Segment Monitoring (EPSM).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Subject: Re: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support, not aware of any IPR

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G.Scudder
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 15:17
To: spring@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segme=
nt-routing-ldp-interop

Dear WG,

As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been r=
equested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please repl=
y to the list with your comments, including although not limited to whether=
 or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to comm=
ent.

In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concurr=
ently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20

Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if s=
o, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for t=
his document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the document=
 is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitting=
 as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active editor=
(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.

Thanks,

--Bruno and John

P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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From: Eric Gray 
To: Gregory Mirsky 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document.
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time as an MPLS wg document.
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+1

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 14, 2015, at 2:52 AM, Gregory Mirsky =
 wrote:
>=20
> support as co-author.
>=20
>    Regards,
>        Greg
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:37 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ie=
tf.org
> Subject: Poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky-mpls-resi=
dence-time as an MPLS wg document.
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-mirsky- mpls-residence=
-time as an MPLS working group document.
>=20
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group=
 mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your =
support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not b=
e adopted as a working group document.
>=20
> There are no IPR disclosures against this document. However, we have star=
ted an IPR poll in parallel to the adoption poll.
>=20
> This poll ends July 24, 2015.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: Eric Gray 
To: Gregory Mirsky 
Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time
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I am not aware of any other IPR associated with this draft.=20

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 14, 2015, at 2:52 AM, Gregory Mirsky =
 wrote:
>=20
> Dear Loa,
> the only IPR of which I am aware of has been disclosed to the IETF and po=
sted at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2626/=20
>=20
>    Regards,
>        Greg
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:37 AM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time@tools.ie=
tf.org
> Subject: IPR poll on draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time
>=20
> Working Group,
>=20
> A poll to see if we have consensus to adopt draft-mirsky- mpls-residence-=
time as an MPLS wg document has been started. In parallel we will do an IPR=
 poll.
>=20
> This mail starts the IPR poll.
>=20
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-mirsky- mpls-residence-tim=
e?
>=20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see=
 RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>=20
> There are currently no IPR disclosures filed against this document.
>=20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to t=
his email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *=
The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The document wi=
ll not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from ea=
ch author and contributor.
>=20
> If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or c=
ontributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR=
 that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>=20
>=20
> /Loa
> mpls wg co-chair
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jul 22 09:04:25 2015
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From: David Allan I 
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Loa Andersson , "RFC Errata System" , "swallow@cisco.com" , "jdrake@juniper.net" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "rcallon@juniper.net" 
Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:03:57 +0000
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References: <20130521141350.EF4F862100@rfc-editor.org> <55A60407.9060108@pi.nu>  <55A78CE8.9090100@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "alan.davey@metaswitch.com" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6428 (3629)
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Hi MPLSers:

We'd like to "re-close off" this old errata.

Our assumption is the majority if not all should have divined the desired i=
nterpretation (TLV length applies to the whole TLV), but we'd like to verif=
y this. So please advise if you have an implementation that corresponds or =
differs from the corrected text. You can email me privately if you wish to =
spare the list, and I'll summarize the results.

Thanks
Dave



> On 2013-05-21 16:13, RFC Errata System wrote:
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6428,=20
>> "Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defec=
t Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D6428&eid=3D3629
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Alan Davey 
>>
>> Section: 3.5.3
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> The length is the length of the following data: the Global_ID, Node Iden=
tifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> The length is the length of the data following the length field.  The Gl=
obal_ID, Node Identifier, and Attachment Circuit ID (AC_ID) are as per [9].
>>
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>>
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=20
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.
>> When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to=20
>> change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6428 (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi-06)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : Proactive Connectivity Verification, Continuity Ch=
eck, and Remote Defect Indication for the MPLS Transport Profile
>> Publication Date    : November 2011
>> Author(s)           : D. Allan, Ed., G. Swallow Ed., J. Drake Ed.
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : Multiprotocol Label Switching
>> Area                : Routing
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>
> .
>


--
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html


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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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support

> On 22.07.2015, at 15:17, John G.Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Dear WG,
>=20
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been=
 requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please re=
ply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to wheth=
er or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to co=
mment.
>=20
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concu=
rrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20
>=20
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if=
 so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for=
 this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the docume=
nt is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitti=
ng as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active edit=
or(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --Bruno and John
>=20
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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References: <3E235356-D3A3-4D61-BAAC-869D35B918C8@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:15:33 -0400
Message-ID: 
From: Mohan Nanduri 
To: spring@ietf.org
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support.

Cheers,
-Mohan


On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:17 AM, John G.Scudder  wrote:
> Dear WG,
>
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been=
 requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please re=
ply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to wheth=
er or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to co=
mment.
>
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concu=
rrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if=
 so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for=
 this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the docume=
nt is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitti=
ng as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active edit=
or(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Bruno and John
>
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
Thread-Index: AQHQxIDNTdFJ9ThbxkawgCOCcJnXyp3nsrKw
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:48:57 +0000
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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I'm not aware of non-disclosed IPR.=20
(Support as co-author: this is needed for incremental deployment with incre=
mental benefit in existing MPLS/LDP network)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G.Scudder
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 3:17 PM
> To: spring@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-seg=
ment-
> routing-ldp-interop
>=20
> Dear WG,
>=20
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been
> requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please r=
eply
> to the list with your comments, including although not limited to whether=
 or
> not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to
> comment.
>=20
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on
> concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>=20
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if
> so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list fo=
r this
> document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the
> document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when
> submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the
> active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the ful=
l list.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --Bruno and John
>=20
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

___________________________________________________________________________=
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Subject: Re: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support

Ahmed

On 7/22/2015 6:17 AM, John G.Scudder wrote:
> Dear WG,
>
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please reply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to comment.
>
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Bruno and John
>
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
Thread-Index: AQHQxIDNzuh0dlTwRESZF1Rih2twMJ3nyw8A
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Support.

Thanks,
Nagendra

On 7/22/15, 9:17 AM, "John G.Scudder"  wrote:

>Dear WG,
>
>As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been
>requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please
>reply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to
>whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially
>encouraged to comment.
>
>In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on
>concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
>Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if
>so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list
>for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the
>document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when
>submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the
>active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the
>full list.
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Bruno and John
>
>P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Support.

Pierre.

> On 22 Jul 2015, at 15:17, John G.Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Dear WG,
>=20
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has =
been requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. =
Please reply to the list with your comments, including although not =
limited to whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are =
especially encouraged to comment.
>=20
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on =
concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>=20
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and =
if so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author =
list for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming =
the document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this =
when submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply =
the active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for =
the full list.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --Bruno and John
>=20
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the =
reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" 
To: "" 
Thread-Topic: [spring] working group last call for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group last call for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing
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On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:12 PM, John G. Scudder  wrote:
> Dear SPRING WG (and cc MPLS, OSPF, IS-IS, 6MAN, please include SPRING in =
replies per the reply-to):
>=20
> As we discussed at the SPRING meeting yesterday, working group last call =
has been requested for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing. Please reply to t=
he list with your comments, including although not limited to whether or no=
t you support advancing the document to RFC. Non-authors are especially enc=
ouraged to comment.
>=20
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concu=
rrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20
>=20
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if=
 so, whether it has been disclosed. (Please do this even if you've done it =
before, thanks for your help.)


as co-author I confirm IPR has been already disclosed for draft-ietf-spring=
-segment-routing.

thanks.
s.


>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --Bruno and John
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" 
To: "" 
Thread-Topic: [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
Thread-Index: AQHQxIDUd+/Z9XL+f0y5z0gZK+F93p3oIceA
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as co-author I support the adoption of this draft a WG item and I confirm I=
PR has been already disclosed.

s.


On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:17 PM, John G.Scudder  wrote:

> Dear WG,
>=20
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been=
 requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please re=
ply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to wheth=
er or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to co=
mment.
>=20
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concu=
rrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20
>=20
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if=
 so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for=
 this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the docume=
nt is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitti=
ng as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active edit=
or(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --Bruno and John
>=20
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [spring] [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
Thread-Index: AQHQxIDL/ujrvcWFSUmrmByBxDJ8Ep3oDJCAgACNQ7A=
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support
Roberta

-----Original Message-----
From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ahmed Bashandy (=
bashandy)
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 7:07 PM
To: spring@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils=
-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop

Support

Ahmed

On 7/22/2015 6:17 AM, John G.Scudder wrote:
> Dear WG,
>
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been=
 requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please re=
ply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to wheth=
er or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to co=
mment.
>
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concu=
rrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if=
 so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for=
 this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the docume=
nt is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitti=
ng as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active edit=
or(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Bruno and John
>
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: Rob Shakir 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group last call for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing
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--55b09e8a_22de06fe_17e
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Hi Bruno, John,

Whilst I=E2=80=99m an author =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99ll still comment here. I=
t would be good to see the SPRING WG finalise this document. Rapid progre=
ss is being made to multi-vendor implementations within live networks of =
the SPRING technology. It would be good to start getting documents such a=
s this one - which underpins many of the other standards for SR published=
.

On 22 July 2015 at 14:13:06, John G. Scudder (jgs=40juniper.net) wrote:
Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if=
 so, whether it has been disclosed. (Please do this even if you've done i=
t before, thanks for your help.)=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m not aware of IPR other than that which has already been discl=
osed on this document.

Cheers=21

r.
--55b09e8a_22de06fe_17e
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Hi Thomas,


many thanks for thorough =
review and thoughtful and most helpful comments and suggestions. Please fin=
d my answers in-line and tagged GIM>>.


 <=
/p>

    &=
nbsp;           Regards,<=
o:p>


    &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;  Greg


 <=
/p>





From: Thomas.B=
eckhaus@telekom.de [mailto:Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de]


Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:03 PM

To: mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.ietf.org

Cc: rcallon@juniper.net; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; Gregory Mirsky; Jeff =
Tantsura; mach.chen@huawei.com; Ilya@nobulus.com

Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03






 




Hello,






 






I have been selected as reviewer of
ht=
tp://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03.<=
/span>






 






I think the draft is coherent, technica=
lly sound and operational useful. It extents the explicit path capability f=
or the backward direction of _bidirectional_ forwarding
 detection (BFD). The document is ready for WG adoption.<=
/p>





 






Some comments:






 






Section 1.1.1, Terminology:<=
/span>






I am not sure, whether the term _MPL=
S_ is really required in this section.


 <=
/p>

GIM>> Agree






 






Section 3.1, “Case of MPLS Data P=
lane”: Structure of sub-TLV specification.






The whole section describes, that three=
 sub-TLV are specified for usage: “Static”, “RSVP-TE̶=
1; and “Segment Routing”. For “Static” and “R=
SVP-TE”, the draft refers to the according
 RFC (that’s fine). But the structure of this section contains only a=
 subsection for “Segment routing” and the reference to the othe=
r sub-TLV is part of this subsection. I propose to add two additional subse=
ctions “Static” (3.1.x) and “RSVP-TE” (3.1.x) with
 the references and remove it from the subsection ”Segment Routing=
221; to be more coherent.


 <=
/p>

GIM>> Will extract =
references to Static and RSVP-TE and format into subsections.






 






Section 3.1.2: “Segment Routing T=
unnel Sub-TLV »






The section specifies the encoding of t=
he SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the encoding of the label stack elements. I think=
 it makes sense to describe the usage of this information
 in the draft (“copy this information to the label stack”). Is =
the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases on his l=
ocal information or is the encoded label stack strict?

 <=
/p>

GIM>> This is very =
interesting angle. We thought that it is strict but I think that if egress =
node instructed to make stack more explicit it MAY do so. In other
 words, egress SHOULD NOT exclude any LSE from the stack but MAY only add. =
Would you agree with this interpretation?






 






Section 3.3:






This section confused me. Maybe it shou=
ld be considered to be rewritten (or explained specifically to me).






Who is the _initiator_ in this c=
ase for the BFD reverse path scenario?


 <=
/p>

GIM>> The term R=
20;initiator” is inherited from LSP Ping for Segment Routing. I’=
;ll discuss with authors and either map to another, clearer term or provide=
 explanation
 of roles and scenario.






 






Section 3.4: “Return Codes”=







The paragraph repeats the description t=
ext of the return code 2 times.  The section specifies, that the egres=
s LSR _MAY_ send back the return code. In section 3.1.1,
 last paragraph, the behavior is specified, that the egress LSR may set up =
the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the return code (a=
re the MAYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD session is set up &#=
8211; see also comment from Nobo?). This
 implies, that the egress LSR _MUST_ send the return code, when the =
reverse path is not known.


 <=
/p>

GIM>> Yes, Nobo as =
well pointed to duplicate use of MAY in one sentence. Idea was that use of =
LSP Echo Reply is optional, hence the first MAY. And use of Return
 Code is proposed as optional – thus the second MAY. If the generic i=
dea sound, will re-word. If normative language should be different – =
open for suggestion.






 






Section 4 “Use case scenario̶=
1;:






The “value N” and “va=
lue M” are confusing, because it uses the same vocabulary as the node=
s in the network example (capital letter). It could be called “foobar=
” if it is
 not for interest.


 <=
/p>

GIM>> Agree, will u=
pdate in the next version.






 






Regards.






 






Thomas






 








--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112218826C5eusaamb103erics_--


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Authors of MPLS wg YANG models,

At the MPLS wg meeting yesterday we had a discussion on overlap between
different YANG models. It was alleged that there is a huge overlap
between the YANG models and that there is a substantial need for
coordination.

There were opinions in the meeting spanning from "This will sort it out
itself in the end!" to "Some person with the authority need to do the
coordination!" I guess that the majority were somewhere in the middle
ground.

Here is (at least a temporary) direction for the MPLS wg:

    "The authors of the YANG models progressed in the MPLS working
     group will have to coordinate with other YANG model author
     groups (within and outside the MPLS wg) to find and address
     overlap."

MPLS wg chairs will help when necessary, but initiative should come
from the author groups.

I think there might be a companion question; "Are there YANG models
that we need to do, but that we have not yet identified?"

/Loa

PS
There is a problem with using the document alias, so I tried to
extract the mail-addresses for everyone list as an author for
one of the documents. If I missed someone please forward this
message.


From nobody Thu Jul 23 05:31:07 2015
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:27:46 +0200
Message-ID: 
To: Loa Andersson 
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Cc: "Reshad Rahman \(rrahman\)" , "Nagendra Kumar Nainar \(naikumar\)" , Luyuan Fang , "mpls@ietf.org" , "vbeeram@juniper.net" , "jescia.chenxia@huawei.com" , monica.zhangli@huawei.com, jgeorge@google.com, rob.shakir@bt.com, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] Coordination of YANG models
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--089e010d868cf2d7c3051b8a0430
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Loa,

It would help for you to mention the Routing Area's YANG coordination Wiki,
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoord .

In particular, prospective YANG draft authors in the routing area should
read this page, and then use the tables at
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoordSummary to see
if anyone has already written a YANG model of interest, it may keep you
from duplicating existing work. If you do write a new YANG model, it should
be enterered into the table so that other people will be aware of it.

This applies to all YANG models in the routing area, not just in the mpls
WG.

Cheers,
Andy


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Loa Andersson  wrote:

>
> Authors of MPLS wg YANG models,
>
> At the MPLS wg meeting yesterday we had a discussion on overlap between
> different YANG models. It was alleged that there is a huge overlap
> between the YANG models and that there is a substantial need for
> coordination.
>
> There were opinions in the meeting spanning from "This will sort it out
> itself in the end!" to "Some person with the authority need to do the
> coordination!" I guess that the majority were somewhere in the middle
> ground.
>
> Here is (at least a temporary) direction for the MPLS wg:
>
>    "The authors of the YANG models progressed in the MPLS working
>     group will have to coordinate with other YANG model author
>     groups (within and outside the MPLS wg) to find and address
>     overlap."
>
> MPLS wg chairs will help when necessary, but initiative should come
> from the author groups.
>
> I think there might be a companion question; "Are there YANG models
> that we need to do, but that we have not yet identified?"
>
> /Loa
>
> PS
> There is a problem with using the document alias, so I tried to
> extract the mail-addresses for everyone list as an author for
> one of the documents. If I missed someone please forward this
> message.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

--089e010d868cf2d7c3051b8a0430
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Loa,

It would help for you to mention t=
he Routing Area's YANG coordination Wiki,=C2=A0https://trac.tools.ietf.org=
/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoord .

In particul=
ar, prospective YANG draft authors in the routing area should read this pag=
e, and then use the tables at=C2=A0https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg=
/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoordSummary to see if anyone has already written a Y=
ANG model of interest, it may keep you from duplicating existing work. If y=
ou do write a new YANG model, it should be enterered into the table so that=
 other people will be aware of it.

This applies to=
 all YANG models in the routing area, not just in the mpls WG.
Cheers,
Andy


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:51 P=
M, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:


Authors of MPLS wg YANG models,



At the MPLS wg meeting yesterday we had a discussion on overlap between

different YANG models. It was alleged that there is a huge overlap

between the YANG models and that there is a substantial need for

coordination.



There were opinions in the meeting spanning from "This will sort it ou=
t

itself in the end!" to "Some person with the authority need to do=
 the

coordination!" I guess that the majority were somewhere in the middle<=
br>
ground.



Here is (at least a temporary) direction for the MPLS wg:



=C2=A0 =C2=A0"The authors of the YANG models progressed in the MPLS wo=
rking

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 group will have to coordinate with other YANG model author
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 groups (within and outside the MPLS wg) to find and address
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 overlap."



MPLS wg chairs will help when necessary, but initiative should come

from the author groups.



I think there might be a companion question; "Are there YANG models
that we need to do, but that we have not yet identified?"



/Loa



PS

There is a problem with using the document alias, so I tried to

extract the mail-addresses for everyone list as an author for

one of the documents. If I missed someone please forward this

message.



_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





--089e010d868cf2d7c3051b8a0430--


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From: Jon Mitchell 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:34:48 +0200
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support

-Jon

> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:17 PM, John G.Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Dear WG,
>=20
> As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been r=
equested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please reply=
 to the list with your comments, including although not limited to whether o=
r not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially encouraged to comment=
.
>=20
> In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on concur=
rently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.=20
>=20
> Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if s=
o, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list for th=
is document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the document i=
s adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when submitting as=
 a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the active editor(s) a=
nd making use of the "contributors" section for the full list.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --Bruno and John
>=20
> P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Alexander Vainshtein , Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: "Adrian Farrel" 
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Archived-At: 
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Andrew,
=20
Are you mixing "no swap" with "bump in the wire"?
=20
If you are going to not consider TTL then you are doing some far more =
"interesting" things: like not decrementing the TTL so not being counted =
as a hop; not appearing in OAM; not checking incoming packets for TTL =
going to zero.
=20
The discussion of "no swap" as applied *solely* to the label is a black =
box optimisation. There is no difference at the external interfaces when =
"no swap" is done or when "pop'n'push" or "swap-inline" is done. The =
packet coming out has the same features in all cases.
=20
But, if you are doing other special things to the label stack entry =
(e.g. not looking at it, or not changing it) then IMHO you are not a =
router, you are a wire.
=20
Adrian
=20
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Qu
Sent: 23 July 2015 15:01
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
=20
I don=E2=80=99t agree no-swap is the same as =E2=80=9Cswap with same =
value=E2=80=9D.
=20
I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for =
people to implement=20
Either SW or HW.
=20
Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
1)      TTL
Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
2)      QoS (pipe mode or not)
If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do something
If not=3D> then I need to do something else.
=20
However if it is really a =E2=80=9Cno-swap=E2=80=9D,  then it is very =
clear for HW/SW to implement such operation.
I don=E2=80=99t need to consider any part of above cases.
=20
I don=E2=80=99t think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as =
=E2=80=9Cno-swap=E2=80=9D at all.=20
=20
>From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at all.
=20
Thanks,
=20
Andrew
=20
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexander =
Vainshtein
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
To: Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
=20
+1.
=20
Thumb typed on my LG,
Sasha

------ Original message ------
From: Stewart Bryant
Date: 21/07/2015 17:58
To: Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;
Cc: mpls@ietf.org;
Subject:Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go=20
forward.

- Stewart


On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA =
considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes forward =
(it currently says "standards track").=20
=20
Cheers,
Andy
=20
=20
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari   wrote:
Eric

I agree no standard change is required since this is a local =
optimization issue.

Regards,
Shahram


> On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:
>
>> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>
> No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by =
an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite =
string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This =
seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an =
optimization for the particular case where the incoming and outgoing =
labels have the same value.  You could do this today, as a local =
implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to be any interop issue =
or any change to the data plane semantics.
>
>> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped =
labels.
>
> We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of =
domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide =
labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just =
don't see that it does.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
=20

 =20
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



--=20
For corporate legal information go to:
=20
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
=20

************* Email Confidentiality Notice ********************
The information contained in this e-mail message (including any=20
attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise
exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended to be=20
conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination,=20
distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this e-mail (including =
its=20
attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may=20
be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or =
believe=20
that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender=20
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this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do not
disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank you!
=20

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Andrew,
 
Are you mixing "no =
swap" with "bump in the wire"?
 
If you are going to not =
consider TTL then you are doing some far more "interesting" =
things: like not decrementing the TTL so not being counted as a hop; not =
appearing in OAM; not checking incoming packets for TTL going to =
zero.
 
The discussion of "no =
swap" as applied *solely* to the label is a black box optimisation. =
There is no difference at the external interfaces when "no =
swap" is done or when "pop'n'push" or =
"swap-inline" is done. The packet coming out has the same =
features in all cases.
 
But, if you are doing other =
special things to the label stack entry (e.g. not looking at it, or not =
changing it) then IMHO you are not a router, you are a =
wire.
 
Adrian
 
From: mpls =
[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew =
Qu
Sent: 23 July 2015 15:01
To: Alexander =
Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
Cc: =
mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] =
draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really =
save?
 
I don=E2=80=99t agree no-swap is the same as =
=E2=80=9Cswap with same value=E2=80=9D.
 
I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, =
that would be great for people to implement 
Either SW or HW.
 
Once the label is defined as swap, I need to =
consider
1)      =
TTL
Copy payload TTL ? or using =
const_value
2)      =
QoS (pipe mode or =
not)
If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do =
something
If not=3D> then I need to do something =
else.
 
However if it is really a =
=E2=80=9Cno-swap=E2=80=9D,  then it is very clear for HW/SW to =
implement such operation.
I don=E2=80=99t need to consider any part of =
above cases.
 
I don=E2=80=99t think swaping a same value =
label is NOT the same as =E2=80=9Cno-swap=E2=80=9D at all. =

 
From Standard point of view, we should NOT =
leave ambiguity here at all.
 
Thanks,
 
Andrew
 
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 =
PM
To: Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. =
Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] =
draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really =
save?
 
+1.<=
/p>
 
Thumb =
typed on my LG,
Sasha

------ Original message =
------
From: Stewart =
Bryant
Date: 21/07/2015 17:58
To: Andrew =
G. Malis;S. Davari;
Cc: mpls@ietf.org;
Subject:Re: =
[mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it =
really save?
This =
draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
these =
changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go =

forward.

- Stewart


On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. =
Malis wrote:
As there are no =
architectural or protocol changes or IANA considerations, this draft =
should be informational if it goes forward (it currently says =
"standards track"). 
 
Cheers,
Andy=

 
 
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 =
at 8:52 PM, S. Davari  <davarish@yahoo.com> =
wrote:
Eric

I agree =
no standard change is required since this is a local optimization =
issue.

Regards,
Shahram


> On Jul 20, 2015, at =
11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> =
wrote:
>
>> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari =
wrote:
>> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that =
replaces the
>> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. =
Using this draft
>> reduces the number of swapped labels that =
needs to be stored,
>> regardless of  implementation. =
Don't you agree?
>
> No.  If you notice that the =
incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same =
value, you could just make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't =
overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to be what the =
draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for the =
particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same =
value.  You could do this today, as a local implementation =
optimization. There doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change =
to the data plane semantics.
>
>> It also reduces the =
configuration and management of the new swapped labels.
>
> =
We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of =
domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of =
domain-wide labels requires a change in the forwarding plane =
architecture.  I just don't see that it does.
>
> =
_______________________________________________
> mpls mailing =
list
> mpls@ietf.org
>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

__________________=
_____________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
 

  =

_______________________________________=
________
mpls mailing =
list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


-- =

For corporate legal information go =
to:
 
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri=
/index.html
 
************* Email =
Confidentiality Notice ********************
The =
information contained in this e-mail message (including any =

attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, =
privileged, or otherwise
exempt from disclosure =
under applicable laws. It is intended to be =

conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any =
use, dissemination, 
distribution, printing, =
retaining or copying of this e-mail (including its =

attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is =
strictly prohibited and may 
be unlawful. If you =
are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or believe =

that you have received this e-mail in error, =
please notify the sender 
immediately (by replying =
to this e-mail), delete any and all copies of 
this =
e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do =
not
disclose the content of this e-mail to any =
other person. Thank you!
 

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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , 'Andrew Qu' 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "" , mpls@ietf.org, "idr@ietf. org" 
Subject: [mpls] disposition of draft-decraene-idr-next-hop-capability
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TL;DR: BGP infrastructure should be standardized in IDR, not in MPLS.

Long form:

Since Loa asked for this on the list...

I generally agree that, assuming draft-decraene-idr-next-hop-capability =
is progressed [*] it should be done in IDR. As someone else said at the =
mic in the MPLS meeting just now, the reason is that the draft defines a =
generic container, one application of which is Entropy Label, but whose =
future uses are by no means limited to MPLS applications. The options =
would seem to be:

1. Progress in IDR, with input from and joint last call with MPLS owing =
to the EL part,
2. Progress in MPLS, with input from and joint last call with IDR owing =
to the generic container part,
3. Split into a base document defining the container, to be progressed =
in IDR, and an application document that specs EL using the container, =
to be progressed in MPLS.

Of these, I prefer 1 or 3. I prefer 1 over 2 because (as the speaker at =
the mic said) the IDR questions and applicability seem broader than the =
MPLS ones, in this case. 3 is probably a more formally proper =
decomposition, but requires something like 2x the administrative =
overhead. I am OK with that if either or both WGs prefer it that way, =
and if the authors are willing to split it into two documents and =
progress both.=20

HTH,

--John

[*] (which speaking with no WG chair hats on I think it should be)=20=


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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:21:54 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Adrian beat me to it, although I see no reference to the infinite loop 
that may also result.

You are also talking about operations that you do when you change level 
in the LSP hierarchy with operations that you do when forwarding at the 
same level in the hierarchy.

- Stewart


On 23/07/2015 15:08, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> Are you mixing "no swap" with "bump in the wire"?
>
> If you are going to not consider TTL then you are doing some far more 
> "interesting" things: like not decrementing the TTL so not being 
> counted as a hop; not appearing in OAM; not checking incoming packets 
> for TTL going to zero.
>
> The discussion of "no swap" as applied *solely* to the label is a 
> black box optimisation. There is no difference at the external 
> interfaces when "no swap" is done or when "pop'n'push" or 
> "swap-inline" is done. The packet coming out has the same features in 
> all cases.
>
> But, if you are doing other special things to the label stack entry 
> (e.g. not looking at it, or not changing it) then IMHO you are not a 
> router, you are a wire.
>
> Adrian
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Qu
> *Sent:* 23 July 2015 15:01
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how 
> much does it really save?
>
> I don’t agree no-swap is the same as “swap with same value”.
>
> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for 
> people to implement
>
> Either SW or HW.
>
> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
>
> 1)TTL
>
> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
>
> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
>
> If pipe mode => then I need to do something
>
> If not=> then I need to do something else.
>
> However if it is really a “no-swap”,  then it is very clear for HW/SW 
> to implement such operation.
>
> I don’t need to consider any part of above cases.
>
> I don’t think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as “no-swap” 
> at all.
>
> From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at all.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander 
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how 
> much does it really save?
>
> +1.
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Stewart Bryant
> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> *To: *Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org ;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how 
> much does it really save?
>
> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go
> forward.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
>     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
>     forward (it currently says "standards track").
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andy
>
>     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari       > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue.
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen      > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be
>     'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just
>     make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top
>     label on the stack.  This seems to be what the draft suggests, but
>     it could be done as an optimization for the particular case where
>     the incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could
>     do this today, as a local implementation optimization. There
>     doesn't seem to be any interop issue or any change to the data
>     plane semantics.
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new
>     swapped labels.
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use
>     of domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of
>     domain-wide labels requires a change in the forwarding plane
>     architecture.  I just don't see that it does.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     > mpls@ietf.org 
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     mpls mailing list
>
>     mpls@ietf.org  
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
> -- 
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>   
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>   
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> attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise
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> conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination,
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Adrian beat me to it, although I see no
      reference to the infinite loop that may also result.

      

      You are also talking about operations that you do when you change
      level in the LSP hierarchy with operations that you do when
      forwarding at the same level in the hierarchy.

      

      - Stewart

      

      

      On 23/07/2015 15:08, Adrian Farrel wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      

        
Andrew,

        
 

        
Are you mixing "no swap" with
            "bump in the wire"?

        
 

        
If you are going to not
            consider TTL then you are doing some far more "interesting"
            things: like not decrementing the TTL so not being counted
            as a hop; not appearing in OAM; not checking incoming
            packets for TTL going to zero.

        
 

        
The discussion of "no swap"
            as applied *solely* to the label is a black box
            optimisation. There is no difference at the external
            interfaces when "no swap" is done or when "pop'n'push" or
            "swap-inline" is done. The packet coming out has the same
            features in all cases.

        
 

        
But, if you are doing other
            special things to the label stack entry (e.g. not looking at
            it, or not changing it) then IMHO you are not a router, you
            are a wire.

        
 

        
Adrian

        
 

        

          

            
From:
                mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
                Qu

                Sent: 23 July 2015 15:01

                To: Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew
                G. Malis; S. Davari

                Cc: mpls@ietf.org

                Subject: Re: [mpls]
                draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does
                it really save?

          

        

        
 

        
I don’t agree no-swap is the same as “swap with
            same value”.

        
 

        
I think if standard adds a no-swap operation,
            that would be great for people to implement 

        
Either SW or HW.

        
 

        
Once the label is defined as swap, I need to
            consider

        
1)      TTL

        
Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value

        
2)      QoS (pipe mode or not)

        
If pipe mode => then I need to do something

        
If not=> then I need to do something else.

        
 

        
However if it is really a “no-swap”,  then it
            is very clear for HW/SW to implement such operation.

        
I don’t need to consider any part of above
            cases.

        
 

        
I don’t think swaping a same value label is NOT
            the same as “no-swap” at all. 

        
 

        
From Standard point of view, we should NOT
            leave ambiguity here at all.

        
 

        
Thanks,

        
 

        
Andrew

        
 

        

          

            
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
                  Behalf Of Alexander Vainshtein

                Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM

                To: Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari

                Cc: mpls@ietf.org

                Subject: Re: [mpls]
                draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does
                it really save?

          

        

        
 

        
+1.

        
 

        
Thumb typed on my LG,

            Sasha

            

            ------ Original message ------

            From: Stewart Bryant

            Date: 21/07/2015 17:58

            To: Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;

            Cc: mpls@ietf.org;

            Subject:Re: [mpls]
            draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it
            really save?

        

          
This draft proposes architectural changes,
              and as we can show that

              these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft
              should not go 

              forward.

              

              - Stewart

              

              

              On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:

        

        

          

            
As there are no architectural or protocol
                changes or IANA considerations, this draft should be
                informational if it goes forward (it currently says
                "standards track"). 

            

              
 

            

            

              
Cheers,

            

            

              
Andy

            

            

              
 

            

          

          

            
 

            

              
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S.
                  Davari  <davarish@yahoo.com>
                  wrote:

              
Eric

                  

                  I agree no standard change is required since this is a
                  local optimization issue.

                  

                  Regards,

                  Shahram

                  

                  

                  > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
                  wrote:

                  >

                  >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:

                  >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label
                  that replaces the

                  >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table.
                  Using this draft

                  >> reduces the number of swapped labels that
                  needs to be stored,

                  >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you
                  agree?

                  >

                  > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs
                  to be 'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same
                  value, you could just make the rewrite string shorter,
                  so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.
                   This seems to be what the draft suggests, but it
                  could be done as an optimization for the particular
                  case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the
                  same value.  You could do this today, as a local
                  implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to be
                  any interop issue or any change to the data plane
                  semantics.

                  >

                  >> It also reduces the configuration and
                  management of the new swapped labels.

                  >

                  > We're not discussing whether there are any
                  advantages to the use of domain-wide labels.  We're
                  discussing whether the use of domain-wide labels
                  requires a change in the forwarding plane
                  architecture.  I just don't see that it does.

                  >

                  > _______________________________________________

                  > mpls mailing list

                  > mpls@ietf.org

                  >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

              

                

                  


                      _______________________________________________

                      mpls mailing list

                      mpls@ietf.org

                      https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

                

              

            

            
 

          

          


                

          
_______________________________________________

          
mpls mailing list

          
mpls@ietf.org

          
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

        

        


            

            

        
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Cc: "Reshad Rahman \(rrahman\)" , "Nagendra Kumar Nainar \(naikumar\)" , Luyuan Fang , "mpls@ietf.org" , "vbeeram@juniper.net" , "jescia.chenxia@huawei.com" , monica.zhangli@huawei.com, jgeorge@google.com, rob.shakir@bt.com, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] Coordination of YANG models
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Andy,

You are correct...

However I forwarded the mail from David S and Qin Wu that were sent to
the routing-discuss mail list yesterday to the mpls wg.

I also sent a mail to the authors of the mpls yang models with the
instruction to the authors to fill in the list of yang models, so far
at least half of the author groups have done so,

This mail was a follow up (third in a suite) I didn't think that that
it would be necessary to repeat what should be done, this was about
who should do it.

/Loa

On 2015-07-23 14:27, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Loa,
>
> It would help for you to mention the Routing Area's YANG coordination
> Wiki, https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoord .
>
> In particular, prospective YANG draft authors in the routing area should
> read this page, and then use the tables at
> https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoordSummary to
> see if anyone has already written a YANG model of interest, it may keep
> you from duplicating existing work. If you do write a new YANG model, it
> should be enterered into the table so that other people will be aware of it.
>
> This applies to all YANG models in the routing area, not just in the
> mpls WG.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Loa Andersson  > wrote:
>
>
>     Authors of MPLS wg YANG models,
>
>     At the MPLS wg meeting yesterday we had a discussion on overlap between
>     different YANG models. It was alleged that there is a huge overlap
>     between the YANG models and that there is a substantial need for
>     coordination.
>
>     There were opinions in the meeting spanning from "This will sort it out
>     itself in the end!" to "Some person with the authority need to do the
>     coordination!" I guess that the majority were somewhere in the middle
>     ground.
>
>     Here is (at least a temporary) direction for the MPLS wg:
>
>         "The authors of the YANG models progressed in the MPLS working
>          group will have to coordinate with other YANG model author
>          groups (within and outside the MPLS wg) to find and address
>          overlap."
>
>     MPLS wg chairs will help when necessary, but initiative should come
>     from the author groups.
>
>     I think there might be a companion question; "Are there YANG models
>     that we need to do, but that we have not yet identified?"
>
>     /Loa
>
>     PS
>     There is a problem with using the document alias, so I tried to
>     extract the mail-addresses for everyone list as an author for
>     one of the documents. If I missed someone please forward this
>     message.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>


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Subject: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap-00
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--e89a8f3ba5f37d2430051b8c9247
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All,

Few comments, questions on this proposal.

Comment #1:

I very much agree with this draft document that RFC3031 has no explicit
provision for operation which does not require label rewrite. IMO the
update to RFC3031 is needed perhaps by issuing RFC3031bis.

It is implementation optimization how the hardware lookup and header
rewrite are done. But this is not the point here.

It matters to provide right set of label forwarding primitives such that
new protocol work and new architectures which chooses to still use MPLS as
their data plane in non local label scope can be consistently build on top.

As we all recall when RFC3031 was defined some folks were allergic to
anything other then local label significance :)

Therefor I support this document as a base to update RFC3031.


Comment #2:

We already see two individual workarounds and likely we will see more which
try to address the very same problem.

We see H-SDN inventing the term NO_SWAP.

We also see a Segment Routing which cleverly defined a new CONTINUE
operation and simply defined it as MPLS label swap.

"The CONTINUE operation is implemented as an MPLS swap operation."

SRC: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-01


Question 1:

Does this WG wants to see zoo of new terminology across IETF and broader
industry or perhaps ack on the problem and address it ?


Question 2:

What happens if hardware vendor comes with hardware which exposes to
control plane API which allow protocols to signal that mpls label Y is not
to be swapped ?

If so which IETF document such API would be compliant with ?


Best,
Robert.

--e89a8f3ba5f37d2430051b8c9247
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


All,

=

Few comments, questions on this proposal.

Comment #1:
=

I very much agree with this draft document tha=
t RFC3031 has no explicit provision for operation which does not require la=
bel rewrite. IMO the update to RFC3031 is needed perhaps by issuing RFC3031=
bis.=C2=A0

It is imple=
mentation optimization how the hardware lookup and header rewrite are done.=
 But this is not the point here.=C2=A0

It matters to provide right set of label forwarding primit=
ives such that new protocol work and new architectures which chooses to sti=
ll use MPLS as their data plane in non local label scope can be consistentl=
y build on top.=C2=A0

=
As we all recall when RFC3031 was defined some folks were allergic to anyth=
ing other then local label significance :)

Therefor I support this document as a base to update R=
FC3031.=C2=A0


Comment #2:

We already see two individual workarounds and likely we will see=
 more which try to address the very same problem.=C2=A0

We see H-SDN inventing the term NO_SWAP.=
=C2=A0

We also see a S=
egment Routing which cleverly defined a new CONTINUE operation and simply d=
efined it as MPLS label swap.=C2=A0

"The CONTINUE operation is implemented as an MPLS swap o=
peration."

SRC:=
=C2=A0draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-01

Question 1:

Does this WG wants to see zoo =
of new terminology across IETF and broader industry or perhaps ack on the p=
roblem and address it ?=C2=A0


Question 2:
<=
br>
What happens if hardware vendor comes with hard=
ware which exposes to control plane API which allow protocols to signal tha=
t mpls label Y is not to be swapped ?=C2=A0

If so which IETF document such API would be compliant=
 with ?=C2=A0


Best,
Robert.










<=
br>


--e89a8f3ba5f37d2430051b8c9247--


From nobody Thu Jul 23 09:59:41 2015
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Andrew,

On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:
> I don’t agree no-swap is the same as “swap with same value”.
>
> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for
> people to implement
>
> Either SW or HW.
>
> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
>
> 1)TTL
>
> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
>
> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
>
> If pipe mode => then I need to do something
>
> If not=> then I need to do something else.
>
> However if it is really a “no-swap”,  then it is very clear for HW/SW to
> implement such operation.
>
> I don’t need to consider any part of above cases.

I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about this
draft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then
this definitely a no go!

/Loa
>
> I don’t think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as “no-swap” at
> all.
>
>  From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at all.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
> much does it really save?
>
> +1.
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Stewart Bryant
> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> *To: *Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org ;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go
> forward.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
>     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
>     forward (it currently says "standards track").
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andy
>
>     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari       > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue.
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could  be done as an optimization for the particular case where the
>     incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could do this
>     today, as a local implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to
>     be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics.
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swapped labels.
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see that it does.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     >mpls@ietf.org 
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     mpls mailing list
>
>     mpls@ietf.org  
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
>
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>
>
>
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From nobody Thu Jul 23 10:18:36 2015
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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Loa Andersson , Andrew Qu , "Alexander Vainshtein" , Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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I thought the idea was to decrement TTL and consider EXP bits for queuing a=
nd count as a hop so you can do OAM, etc.. Basically swap to itself.

Thx
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:59 AM
To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Da=
vari
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?

Andrew,

On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:
> I don't agree no-swap is the same as "swap with same value".
>
> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for
> people to implement
>
> Either SW or HW.
>
> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
>
> 1)TTL
>
> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
>
> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
>
> If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do something
>
> If not=3D> then I need to do something else.
>
> However if it is really a "no-swap",  then it is very clear for HW/SW to
> implement such operation.
>
> I don't need to consider any part of above cases.

I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about this
draft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then
this definitely a no go!

/Loa
>
> I don't think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as "no-swap" at
> all.
>
>  From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at all.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
> much does it really save?
>
> +1.
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Stewart Bryant
> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> *To: *Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org ;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go
> forward.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
>     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
>     forward (it currently says "standards track").
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andy
>
>     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari       > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue.
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' b=
y an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite stri=
ng shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems t=
o be what the draft suggests, but it could  be done as an optimization for =
the particular case where the
>     incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could do this
>     today, as a local implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to
>     be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics.
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swappe=
d labels.
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of=
 domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide label=
s requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see=
 that it does.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     >mpls@ietf.org 
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     mpls mailing list
>
>     mpls@ietf.org  
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
>
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:58:09 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Eric C Rosen 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1138f354812d6f051b904e9f
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B


> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for t=
he
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same valu=
e.


=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.

You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
architectures there is no such things.

It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.

So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from single
label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data
plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
suggestion.

Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared
to be non compliant to new RFC ?

Many thx,
R.

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=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
=

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=
If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an =
outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string sh=
orter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.=C2=A0 This see=
ms to be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization f=
or the particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same=
 value.

=E2=80=8BThis i=
s precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.=C2=A0

You use term "incoming label=
" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new architectures the=
re is no such things.=C2=A0

It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjac=
ency information.=C2=A0

So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from singl=
e label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data =
plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your suggestion=
.=C2=A0

Why would we d=
o that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared to be non compl=
iant to new RFC ?=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.

<=
/div>


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 22:32:47 +0200
Message-ID: 
To: Shahram Davari 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Sharam,

The point was made during the meeting that on the wire, "no swap" (but
still decrement TTL, etc.) is indistinguishable from "swap to the same
label". So this really is a local optimization in the switch, and not
subject to standardization.

Cheers,
Andy

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Shahram Davari  wrote:

> I thought the idea was to decrement TTL and consider EXP bits for queuing
> and count as a hop so you can do OAM, etc.. Basically swap to itself.
>
> Thx
> Shahram
>

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Sharam,

The point was made during the=
 meeting that on the wire, "no swap" (but still decrement TTL, et=
c.) is indistinguishable from "swap to the same label". So this r=
eally is a local optimization in the switch, and not subject to standardiza=
tion.

=
Cheers,
Andy

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Shahram D=
avari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:
I th=
ought the idea was to decrement TTL and consider EXP bits for queuing and c=
ount as a hop so you can do OAM, etc.. Basically swap to itself.



Thx

Shahram






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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Robert Raszuk , Eric C Rosen 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:07:26 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 23:11:53 +0200
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Message-ID: 
From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Shahram Davari 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26120288123051b91567c
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--001a11c26120288123051b91567c
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Hi Shahram,

Labels which are non of a local significance can be distributed by flooding
protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessions (BGP 3107,
sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)

The important part is that the actual forwarding is computed recursively or
set at the controller.

AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play any role in such
distribution.

Regards,
R.





On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari 
wrote:

>  Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> How are these labels distributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM
> *To:* Eric C Rosen
> *Cc:* Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>  =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for t=
he
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same valu=
e.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.
>
>
>
> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
> architectures there is no such things.
>
>
>
> It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.
>
>
>
> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from singl=
e
> label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data
> plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
> suggestion.
>
>
>
> Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared
> to be non compliant to new RFC ?
>
>
>
> Many thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>

--001a11c26120288123051b91567c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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Hi Shahram,
Labels which are non of a local significance can =
be distributed by flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p=
2p sessions (BGP 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)=C2=A0

The important part is th=
at the actual forwarding is computed recursively or set at the controller.=
=C2=A0

AFAIK I have no=
t seen any proposal where LDP would play any role in such distribution.

Regards,
R.


=




On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:=
07 PM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:











Hi Robert,<=
/span>


=C2=A0


How are these labels dist=
ributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?



=C2=A0


Thanks


Shahram


=C2=A0


From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mail=
to:rraszuk@gmail.com=
]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM

To: Eric C Rosen

Cc: Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0












=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B








=C2=A0








=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B




If you notice that the incoming label needs to be &#=
39;replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just mak=
e the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on th=
e stack.=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests,
 but it could be done as an optimization for the particular case where the =
incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.






=C2=A0








=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your st=
atement fails.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing=
 lable" ... well in the new architectures there is no such things.=C2=
=A0






=C2=A0






It is a "global label" or "path label"=
 with adjacency information.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to mak=
e up from single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane.=
 Now also data plane must be smart to check that and program
 its state per your suggestion.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy =
chipsets feared to be non compliant to new RFC ?=C2=A0=







=C2=A0








Many thx,






R.






=C2=A0


















--001a11c26120288123051b91567c--


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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Robert Raszuk 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 23:19:03 +0200
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Message-ID: 
From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Gregory Mirsky 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26120c8d950051b916f1d
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--001a11c26120c8d950051b916f1d
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gregory,

I would not compare it to ethernet or trill but more to mpls-tp. But I
think it is advisable to separate discussions about architecture from basic
primitives of mpls.

Cheers,
R.

PS. I am ready to talk about both but let's handle one at a time ;)

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Gregory Mirsky <
gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:

>  Hi Robert,
>
> RE: =E2=80=9Cnew architectures=E2=80=9D
>
> It does look very much like Ethernet or TRILL. Why not to use one of them=
?
>
>
>
>                 Regards,
>
>                                 Greg
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:58 PM
> *To:* Eric C Rosen
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>  =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for t=
he
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same valu=
e.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.
>
>
>
> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
> architectures there is no such things.
>
>
>
> It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.
>
>
>
> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from singl=
e
> label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data
> plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
> suggestion.
>
>
>
> Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared
> to be non compliant to new RFC ?
>
>
>
> Many thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>

--001a11c26120c8d950051b916f1d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Gregory,

I would not compare it to ethernet or trill but more=
 to mpls-tp. But I think it is advisable to separate discussions about arch=
itecture from basic primitives of mpls.=C2=A0

<=
/div>
Cheers,
R.

PS. I am ready to talk about both but let's handle one =
at a time ;)

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Gregory Mirsky &=
lt;gregory=
.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:




Hi Robert,<=
/span>


RE: =E2=80=9Cnew architec=
tures=E2=80=9D


It does look very much li=
ke Ethernet or TRILL. Why not to use one of them?


=C2=A0


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Regards,=



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Greg


=C2=A0


From: mpls [ma=
ilto:mpls-bounce=
s@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:58 PM

To: Eric C Rosen

Cc: mpls@ietf.org=


Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0












=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B








=C2=A0








=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B




If you notice that the incoming label needs to be &#=
39;replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just mak=
e the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on th=
e stack.=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests,
 but it could be done as an optimization for the particular case where the =
incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.






=C2=A0








=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your st=
atement fails.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing=
 lable" ... well in the new architectures there is no such things.=C2=
=A0






=C2=A0






It is a "global label" or "path label"=
 with adjacency information.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to mak=
e up from single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane.=
 Now also data plane must be smart to check that and program
 its state per your suggestion.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy =
chipsets feared to be non compliant to new RFC ?=C2=A0=







=C2=A0








Many thx,






R.






=C2=A0


















--001a11c26120c8d950051b916f1d--


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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 23:22:19 +0200
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Message-ID: 
From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Shahram Davari 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--001a11c261207acf7b051b917b82
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The point is that new control plane is already defined. In fact we already
have two :)

As I mentioned in my first mail to the list the concept of NO_SWAP/CONTINUE
is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architectures.

Ref: https://goo.gl/3oxRbl

Thx,
R.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari 
wrote:

>  Robert,
>
>
>
> So instead of calling it no-swap probably you should call it global label
> or so, and then define new control plane for it. But seems the data-pane
> behavior does not change and existing hardware can support this global
> label.  So maybe you just need new control plane.
>
>
>
> Thx
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM
> *To:* Shahram Davari
> *Cc:* Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> Hi Shahram,
>
>
>
> Labels which are non of a local significance can be distributed by
> flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessions (BGP
> 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)
>
>
>
> The important part is that the actual forwarding is computed recursively
> or set at the controller.
>
>
>
> AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play any role in such
> distribution.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> How are these labels distributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM
> *To:* Eric C Rosen
> *Cc:* Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>  =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for t=
he
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same valu=
e.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.
>
>
>
> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
> architectures there is no such things.
>
>
>
> It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.
>
>
>
> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from singl=
e
> label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data
> plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
> suggestion.
>
>
>
> Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared
> to be non compliant to new RFC ?
>
>
>
> Many thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>

--001a11c261207acf7b051b917b82
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



The point =
is that new control plane is already defined. In fact we already have two :=
)=C2=A0

As I mentioned=
 in my first mail to the list the concept of NO_SWAP/CONTINUE is common to =
both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architectures.=C2=A0

Ref:=C2=A0h=
ttps://goo.gl/3oxRbl

Thx,
R.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shah=
ram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:











Robert,


=C2=A0


So instead of calling it =
no-swap probably you should call it global label or so, and then define new=
 control plane for it. But seems the data-pane behavior
 does not change and existing hardware can support this global label.=C2=A0=
 So maybe you just need new control plane.


=C2=A0


Thx

Shahram


=C2=A0


From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mail=
to:rraszuk@gmail.com=
]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM

To: Shahram Davari

Cc: Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org


Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0






Hi Shahram,






=C2=A0






Labels which are non of a local significance can be distri=
buted by flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessio=
ns (BGP 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)=C2=A0






=C2=A0






The important part is that the actual forwarding is comput=
ed recursively or set at the controller.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play an=
y role in such distribution.






=C2=A0






Regards,






R.






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari <=
;davari@broadcom.c=
om> wrote:






Hi Robert,<=
u>


=C2=A0


How are these labels dist=
ributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?



=C2=A0


Thanks


Shahram<=
/u>


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM

To: Eric C Rosen

Cc: Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com;
mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0












=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B












=C2=A0








=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B




If you notice that the incoming label needs to be &#=
39;replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just mak=
e the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top
 label on the stack.=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests, but it=
 could be done as an optimization for the particular case where the incomin=
g and outgoing labels have the same value.






=C2=A0








=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your st=
atement fails.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing=
 lable" ... well in the new architectures there is no such things.=C2=
=A0






=C2=A0






It is a "global label" or "path label"=
 with adjacency information.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to mak=
e up from single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane.
 Now also data plane must be smart to check that and program its state per =
your suggestion.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy =
chipsets feared to be non compliant to new RFC ?=C2=A0=







=C2=A0








Many thx,






R.






=C2=A0




















=C2=A0












--001a11c261207acf7b051b917b82--


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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing label" ... well in the
> new architectures there is no such things.

The incoming label is the label on the packet when it arrives, and the
outgoing label is the label on the packet when it departs.  If a packet
arrives with a label and leaves with a label, it has an incoming label 
and an outgoing label.  I believe that even in the "new architectures", 
  packets still arrive and depart.

> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from
> single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now
> also data plane must be smart to check that and program its state
> per your suggestion.

I don't really understand what you are saying here.  The control plane
determines the rewrite string and causes it to be programmed into the
data plane.  There are many ways to implement this interaction.

Are you worried about the following:

> What happens if hardware vendor comes with hardware which exposes to
> control plane API which allow protocols to signal that mpls label Y
> is not to be swapped ? If so which IETF document such API would be
> compliant with ?

I don't understand this point either.  RFC 3031 does not specify an API, 
so it doesn't make any sense to ask whether a particular API is or is 
not compliant with it.






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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Robert Raszuk 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:28:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Eric C Rosen 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Eric,

Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
"outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
routing.

While packets still arrive and depart they do not change label value hence
it makes rather limited sense to divide the label they carry into "incoming
label" and "outgoing label". Wouldn't you agree ?

Cheers,
R.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:27 PM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:

> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing label" ... well in the
>> new architectures there is no such things.
>>
>
> The incoming label is the label on the packet when it arrives, and the
> outgoing label is the label on the packet when it departs.  If a packet
> arrives with a label and leaves with a label, it has an incoming label and
> an outgoing label.  I believe that even in the "new architectures",
> packets still arrive and depart.
>
>  So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from
>> single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now
>> also data plane must be smart to check that and program its state
>> per your suggestion.
>>
>
> I don't really understand what you are saying here.  The control plane
> determines the rewrite string and causes it to be programmed into the
> data plane.  There are many ways to implement this interaction.
>
> Are you worried about the following:
>
>  What happens if hardware vendor comes with hardware which exposes to
>> control plane API which allow protocols to signal that mpls label Y
>> is not to be swapped ? If so which IETF document such API would be
>> compliant with ?
>>
>
> I don't understand this point either.  RFC 3031 does not specify an API,
> so it doesn't make any sense to ask whether a particular API is or is not
> compliant with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>

--001a11c261209310f8051b919d30
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Eric,

Going by your logic we would have a notion of "inc=
oming IP address" and "outgoing IP address" in all routers i=
n the world doing basic non NAT routing.=C2=A0

=

While packets still arrive and depart they do not =
change label value hence it makes rather limited sense to divide the label =
they carry into "incoming label" and "outgoing label". =
Wouldn't you agree ?

Cheers,
R.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:27 PM, E=
ric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:

You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing label" ... =
well in the

new architectures there is no such things.





The incoming label is the label on the packet when it arrives, and the

outgoing label is the label on the packet when it departs.=C2=A0 If a packe=
t

arrives with a label and leaves with a label, it has an incoming label and =
an outgoing label.=C2=A0 I believe that even in the "new architectures=
",=C2=A0 packets still arrive and depart.





So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from

single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now

also data plane must be smart to check that and program its state

per your suggestion.





I don't really understand what you are saying here.=C2=A0 The control p=
lane

determines the rewrite string and causes it to be programmed into the

data plane.=C2=A0 There are many ways to implement this interaction.



Are you worried about the following:





What happens if hardware vendor comes with hardware which exposes to

control plane API which allow protocols to signal that mpls label Y

is not to be swapped ? If so which IETF document such API would be

compliant with ?





I don't understand this point either.=C2=A0 RFC 3031 does not specify a=
n API, so it doesn't make any sense to ask whether a particular API is =
or is not compliant with it.















--001a11c261209310f8051b919d30--


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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 23:36:30 +0200
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Message-ID: 
From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Shahram Davari 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043893373249d1051b91aec7
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Shahram,

Both IGP and BGP extensions are proposed.

As described they use the trick of locally defining a NO_SWAP semantics
(for example by defining "CONTINUE" action as "swap to the same label") and
using this notion in their architecture.

They do it as there is no MPLS architecture semantics for that.

Is it possible .. sure.

Is it optimal and good practice going forward .. I do not think so.

Best,
R.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Shahram Davari 
wrote:

>  Which control planes are already defined for this global label? IS-IS?
> BGP? If it is defined then what do you need?
>
>
>
> Thx
> SD
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:22 PM
>
> *To:* Shahram Davari
> *Cc:* Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
>
>
> The point is that new control plane is already defined. In fact we alread=
y
> have two :)
>
>
>
> As I mentioned in my first mail to the list the concept of
> NO_SWAP/CONTINUE is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architecture=
s.
>
>
>
> Ref: https://goo.gl/3oxRbl
>
>
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari 
> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
>
>
> So instead of calling it no-swap probably you should call it global label
> or so, and then define new control plane for it. But seems the data-pane
> behavior does not change and existing hardware can support this global
> label.  So maybe you just need new control plane.
>
>
>
> Thx
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM
> *To:* Shahram Davari
> *Cc:* Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> Hi Shahram,
>
>
>
> Labels which are non of a local significance can be distributed by
> flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessions (BGP
> 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)
>
>
>
> The important part is that the actual forwarding is computed recursively
> or set at the controller.
>
>
>
> AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play any role in such
> distribution.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> How are these labels distributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM
> *To:* Eric C Rosen
> *Cc:* Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>  =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for t=
he
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same valu=
e.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.
>
>
>
> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
> architectures there is no such things.
>
>
>
> It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.
>
>
>
> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from singl=
e
> label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data
> plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
> suggestion.
>
>
>
> Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared
> to be non compliant to new RFC ?
>
>
>
> Many thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--f46d043893373249d1051b91aec7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Shahram,
Both IGP and BGP extensions are proposed.=C2=A0

As described they use t=
he trick of locally defining a NO_SWAP semantics (for example by defining &=
quot;CONTINUE" action as "swap to the same label") and using=
 this notion in their architecture.=C2=A0

They do it as there is no MPLS architecture semantics f=
or that.=C2=A0

Is it p=
ossible .. sure.=C2=A0

Is it optimal and good practice going forward .. I do not think so.=C2=A0<=
/div>

Best,
R.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Shahra=
m Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:











Which control planes are =
already defined for this global label? IS-IS? BGP? If it is defined then wh=
at do you need?


=C2=A0


Thx

SD


=C2=A0


From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mail=
to:rraszuk@gmail.com=
]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:22 PM


To: Shahram Davari

Cc: Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0






=C2=A0






The point is that new control plane is already defined. In=
 fact we already have two :)=C2=A0






=C2=A0






As I mentioned in my first mail to the list the concept of=
 NO_SWAP/CONTINUE is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architectures=
.=C2=A0






=C2=A0







=C2=A0






Thx,

R.






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari <=
;davari@broadcom.c=
om> wrote:






Robert,<=
/u>


=C2=A0


So instead of calling it =
no-swap probably you should call it global label or so, and then define
 new control plane for it. But seems the data-pane behavior does not change=
 and existing hardware can support this global label.=C2=A0 So maybe you ju=
st need new control plane.


=C2=A0


Thx

Shahram


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM

To: Shahram Davari

Cc: Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com;
mpls@ietf.org=









Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?










=C2=A0






Hi Shahram,






=C2=A0






Labels which are non of a local significance can be distri=
buted by flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessio=
ns
 (BGP 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)=C2=A0=







=C2=A0






The important part is that the actual forwarding is comput=
ed recursively or set at the controller.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play an=
y role in such distribution.






=C2=A0






Regards,






R.






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari <=
;davari@broadcom.c=
om> wrote:






Hi Robert,<=
u>


=C2=A0


How are these labels dist=
ributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?



=C2=A0


Thanks


Shahram<=
/u>


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM

To: Eric C Rosen

Cc: Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com;
mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0












=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B












=C2=A0








=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B




If you notice that the incoming label needs to be &#=
39;replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just mak=
e the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top
 label on the stack.=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests, but it=
 could be done as an optimization for the particular case where the incomin=
g and outgoing labels have the same value.






=C2=A0








=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your st=
atement fails.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing=
 lable" ... well in the new architectures there is no such things.=C2=
=A0






=C2=A0






It is a "global label" or "path label"=
 with adjacency information.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to mak=
e up from single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane.
 Now also data plane must be smart to check that and program its state per =
your suggestion.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy =
chipsets feared to be non compliant to new RFC ?=C2=A0=







=C2=A0








Many thx,






R.






=C2=A0




















=C2=A0














=C2=A0












--f46d043893373249d1051b91aec7--


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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:42:13 +0000
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From: Andrew Qu 
To: "Andrew G. Malis" , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:55:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From nobody Thu Jul 23 14:55:32 2015
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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Loa Andersson , Alexander Vainshtein , Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:55:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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It seems I mislead folks from my previous mail=2E

Please let me rephrase my points=2E :-)

>From a ASIC design engineer point of view,  I wanted to say swap and =
no-swap is
Very different meaning=2E

As long as there is a defined swap operation, I have to design the "swap" =
completely
In ASIC logic=2E

If there is a "no-swap" operation defined, then my ASIC engineer will =
implement it differently
than swap=2E

I used "TTL" and EXP handling as example=2E  Since the label is to be =
"swap"ed with a new LABEL stack,
then the design of SWAPING need to consider TTL handling such as=20
1) just decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as =
using local new register stored value to
  Fill the sawp'ed new label stack=2E

And in reality,  the ASIC may chose a HW adjacency storage which has =
complete label stack space,  SW is resonspile
To file them up to fulfill so called "swap" operation=2E

When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would implement=
 such operation completely differently in
Real RTL design with regarding how to handling TTL or EXP=2E

If I am putting NETWORK meaning aside for the moment,  the wording in RFC =
about "swap" and "no-swap" is already making difference
to inplementor already=2E  So that is what I meant that as RFC writer, we =
should be as clear as possible=2E



That is first of my points=2E =20

My next point is that:

As matter of fact,  "no-swap" operation has huge difference in the =
following implementation than "swap"=2E

For example:

When without "no-swap" operation defined, in order to achieve "no-swap" =
result, as you suggested,
I would simply copy "in-label" and write it back to "out-label", but to HW,=
 it means that
for different in-label, I must use different HW adjacency to support =
"no-swap" result=2E
So it will be 1-1 mapping of using adjacencies of HW resource even they =
share the rest of rewrite
Information such out going port and DMAC/SMAC etc=2E


However if we do have a "no-swap" operation defined,  then I can share no =
matter of how many in-coming
Label with just "ONE" HW adjacence to rewrite the in-coming packets=2E

The adjacency instruction would simply just be "no operation on label =
value, decrement TTL" and using
"out_port, DMAC, SMAC"  for all the incoming packet with different =
labels=2E

This is huge saving in terms of implementation when "no-swap" is defiend as=
 a MPLS opearation option for
a ASIC design engineer=2E=2E

Lastly, I still personally believe,  the network meaning of "swap" and =
"no-swap" can't be treated the same=2E
As Robert pointed out,  SR also has "CONTINUE" operation as well,  why SR =
keep that operation if we thing
SWAP is good to cover all cases including "CONTINUE" ?

The local implementation may use the "same" way to meet two different =
requirements does NOT mean they
Are the same, so from standard RFC point of view, we should not leave it as=
 it is,  I feel when use
Case arises, we should add the clarification such as this draft to =
clarify=2E

Thanks,

Andrew










-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi=2Enu]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:59 PM
To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G=2E Malis; =
S=2E Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

Andrew,

On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:
> I don't agree no-swap is the same as "swap with same value"=2E
>
> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for=20
> people to implement
>
> Either SW or HW=2E
>
> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
>
> 1)TTL
>
> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
>
> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
>
> If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do something
>
> If not=3D> then I need to do something else=2E
>
> However if it is really a "no-swap",  then it is very clear for HW/SW=20
> to implement such operation=2E
>
> I don't need to consider any part of above cases=2E

I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about this =
draft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then =
this definitely a no go!

/Loa
>
> I don't think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as "no-swap"=20
> at all=2E
>
>  From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at =
all=2E
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf=2Eorg] *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G=2E Malis; S=2E Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf=2Eorg
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how=20
> much does it really save?
>
> +1=2E
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Stewart Bryant
> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> *To: *Andrew G=2E Malis;S=2E Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf=2Eorg ;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how=20
> much does it really save?
>
> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that=20
> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go=20
> forward=2E
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G=2E Malis wrote:
>
>     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
>     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
>     forward (it currently says "standards track")=2E
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andy
>
>     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S=2E Davari       > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue=2E
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table=2E Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation=2E Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No=2E  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced'=
 by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite =
string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack=2E  This =
seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could  be done as an =
optimization for the particular case where the
>     incoming and outgoing labels have the same value=2E  You could do =
this
>     today, as a local implementation optimization=2E There doesn't seem =
to
>     be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics=2E
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new =
swapped labels=2E
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of=
 domain-wide labels=2E  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide =
labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture=2E  I just =
don't see that it does=2E
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     >mpls@ietf=2Eorg 
>     >https://www=2Eietf=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf=2Eorg 
>     https://www=2Eietf=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     mpls mailing list
>
>     mpls@ietf=2Eorg  
>
>     https://www=2Eietf=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
>
>
> http://www=2Ecisco=2Ecom/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index=2Ehtml
>
>
>
> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The=20
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From nobody Thu Jul 23 15:06:14 2015
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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Andrew Qu , Loa Andersson , "Alexander Vainshtein" , Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Andrew,

Focusing on just the data-plane, do you agree that externally observable be=
havior of a router that does "no-swap" is same as "swap" to the same label.
If so why do you think a standards RFC for data-plane is required? since st=
andards RFC should be something that is externally visible outside of a box=
.


Thanks
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Qu
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:55 PM
To: Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S=
. Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?

It seems I mislead folks from my previous mail.

Please let me rephrase my points. :-)

>From a ASIC design engineer point of view,  I wanted to say swap and no-sw=
ap is
Very different meaning.

As long as there is a defined swap operation, I have to design the "swap" c=
ompletely
In ASIC logic.

If there is a "no-swap" operation defined, then my ASIC engineer will imple=
ment it differently
than swap.

I used "TTL" and EXP handling as example.  Since the label is to be "swap"e=
d with a new LABEL stack,
then the design of SWAPING need to consider TTL handling such as=20
1) just decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as usin=
g local new register stored value to
  Fill the sawp'ed new label stack.

And in reality,  the ASIC may chose a HW adjacency storage which has comple=
te label stack space,  SW is resonspile
To file them up to fulfill so called "swap" operation.

When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would implement=
 such operation completely differently in
Real RTL design with regarding how to handling TTL or EXP.

If I am putting NETWORK meaning aside for the moment,  the wording in RFC a=
bout "swap" and "no-swap" is already making difference
to inplementor already.  So that is what I meant that as RFC writer, we sho=
uld be as clear as possible.



That is first of my points. =20

My next point is that:

As matter of fact,  "no-swap" operation has huge difference in the followin=
g implementation than "swap".

For example:

When without "no-swap" operation defined, in order to achieve "no-swap" res=
ult, as you suggested,
I would simply copy "in-label" and write it back to "out-label", but to HW,=
 it means that
for different in-label, I must use different HW adjacency to support "no-sw=
ap" result.
So it will be 1-1 mapping of using adjacencies of HW resource even they sha=
re the rest of rewrite
Information such out going port and DMAC/SMAC etc.


However if we do have a "no-swap" operation defined,  then I can share no m=
atter of how many in-coming
Label with just "ONE" HW adjacence to rewrite the in-coming packets.

The adjacency instruction would simply just be "no operation on label value=
, decrement TTL" and using
"out_port, DMAC, SMAC"  for all the incoming packet with different labels.

This is huge saving in terms of implementation when "no-swap" is defiend as=
 a MPLS opearation option for
a ASIC design engineer..

Lastly, I still personally believe,  the network meaning of "swap" and "no-=
swap" can't be treated the same.
As Robert pointed out,  SR also has "CONTINUE" operation as well,  why SR k=
eep that operation if we thing
SWAP is good to cover all cases including "CONTINUE" ?

The local implementation may use the "same" way to meet two different requi=
rements does NOT mean they
Are the same, so from standard RFC point of view, we should not leave it as=
 it is,  I feel when use
Case arises, we should add the clarification such as this draft to clarify.

Thanks,

Andrew










-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:59 PM
To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Da=
vari
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?

Andrew,

On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:
> I don't agree no-swap is the same as "swap with same value".
>
> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for=20
> people to implement
>
> Either SW or HW.
>
> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
>
> 1)TTL
>
> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
>
> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
>
> If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do something
>
> If not=3D> then I need to do something else.
>
> However if it is really a "no-swap",  then it is very clear for HW/SW=20
> to implement such operation.
>
> I don't need to consider any part of above cases.

I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about this dr=
aft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then this =
definitely a no go!

/Loa
>
> I don't think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as "no-swap"=20
> at all.
>
>  From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at all.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how=20
> much does it really save?
>
> +1.
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Stewart Bryant
> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> *To: *Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org ;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how=20
> much does it really save?
>
> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that=20
> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go=20
> forward.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
>     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
>     forward (it currently says "standards track").
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andy
>
>     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari       > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue.
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' b=
y an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite stri=
ng shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems t=
o be what the draft suggests, but it could  be done as an optimization for =
the particular case where the
>     incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could do this
>     today, as a local implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to
>     be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics.
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new swappe=
d labels.
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of=
 domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide label=
s requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just don't see=
 that it does.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     >mpls@ietf.org 
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     mpls mailing list
>     mpls@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     mpls mailing list
>
>     mpls@ietf.org  
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
>
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>
>
>
> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The=20
> information contained in this e-mail message (including any
> attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or=20
> otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended=20
> to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use,=20
> dissemination, distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this=20
> e-mail (including its
> attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may=20
> be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or=20
> believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the=20
> sender immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all=20
> copies of this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system,=20
> and do not disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank=
 you!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
************* Email Confidentiality Notice ********************
The information contained in this e-mail message (including any=20
attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise
exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended to be=20
conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination,=20
distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this e-mail (including its=
=20
attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may=20
be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or believ=
e=20
that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender=20
immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all copies of=20
this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do not
disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank you!

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Shahram,

This is first time I see that we judge what should the RFC contain by using
sniffer on the wire ... but as I pointed out this is besides the point.

Control plane is different and what currently defined primitives require
control plane to provide workarounds for the missing forwarding action.

Moreover think further ... look at I2RS and MPLS YANG models. Would it
contain something which is not in the MPLS architecture RFC .. I doubt as
by procedural requirements consulting normative reference section it will
be blocked.

As a consequence it is no longer just local RP/RE to data plane trick .. we
are not for new architectures impacting remote controllers which will need
to use concepts of incoming/outgoing labels when setting data plane using
global/path labels.

Is this sound design by any means ?

Cheers,
R.










On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Shahram Davari 
wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Focusing on just the data-plane, do you agree that externally observable
> behavior of a router that does "no-swap" is same as "swap" to the same
> label.
> If so why do you think a standards RFC for data-plane is required? since
> standards RFC should be something that is externally visible outside of a
> box.
>
>
> Thanks
> Shahram
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Qu
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:55 PM
> To: Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis;
> S. Davari
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
> It seems I mislead folks from my previous mail.
>
> Please let me rephrase my points. :-)
>
> >From a ASIC design engineer point of view,  I wanted to say swap and
> no-swap is
> Very different meaning.
>
> As long as there is a defined swap operation, I have to design the "swap"
> completely
> In ASIC logic.
>
> If there is a "no-swap" operation defined, then my ASIC engineer will
> implement it differently
> than swap.
>
> I used "TTL" and EXP handling as example.  Since the label is to be
> "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack,
> then the design of SWAPING need to consider TTL handling such as
> 1) just decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as
> using local new register stored value to
>   Fill the sawp'ed new label stack.
>
> And in reality,  the ASIC may chose a HW adjacency storage which has
> complete label stack space,  SW is resonspile
> To file them up to fulfill so called "swap" operation.
>
> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would
> implement such operation completely differently in
> Real RTL design with regarding how to handling TTL or EXP.
>
> If I am putting NETWORK meaning aside for the moment,  the wording in RFC
> about "swap" and "no-swap" is already making difference
> to inplementor already.  So that is what I meant that as RFC writer, we
> should be as clear as possible.
>
>
>
> That is first of my points.
>
> My next point is that:
>
> As matter of fact,  "no-swap" operation has huge difference in the
> following implementation than "swap".
>
> For example:
>
> When without "no-swap" operation defined, in order to achieve "no-swap"
> result, as you suggested,
> I would simply copy "in-label" and write it back to "out-label", but to
> HW, it means that
> for different in-label, I must use different HW adjacency to support
> "no-swap" result.
> So it will be 1-1 mapping of using adjacencies of HW resource even they
> share the rest of rewrite
> Information such out going port and DMAC/SMAC etc.
>
>
> However if we do have a "no-swap" operation defined,  then I can share no
> matter of how many in-coming
> Label with just "ONE" HW adjacence to rewrite the in-coming packets.
>
> The adjacency instruction would simply just be "no operation on label
> value, decrement TTL" and using
> "out_port, DMAC, SMAC"  for all the incoming packet with different labels.
>
> This is huge saving in terms of implementation when "no-swap" is defiend
> as a MPLS opearation option for
> a ASIC design engineer..
>
> Lastly, I still personally believe,  the network meaning of "swap" and
> "no-swap" can't be treated the same.
> As Robert pointed out,  SR also has "CONTINUE" operation as well,  why SR
> keep that operation if we thing
> SWAP is good to cover all cases including "CONTINUE" ?
>
> The local implementation may use the "same" way to meet two different
> requirements does NOT mean they
> Are the same, so from standard RFC point of view, we should not leave it
> as it is,  I feel when use
> Case arises, we should add the clarification such as this draft to clarify.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:59 PM
> To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S.
> Davari
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
> Andrew,
>
> On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:
> > I don't agree no-swap is the same as "swap with same value".
> >
> > I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for
> > people to implement
> >
> > Either SW or HW.
> >
> > Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
> >
> > 1)TTL
> >
> > Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
> >
> > 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
> >
> > If pipe mode => then I need to do something
> >
> > If not=> then I need to do something else.
> >
> > However if it is really a "no-swap",  then it is very clear for HW/SW
> > to implement such operation.
> >
> > I don't need to consider any part of above cases.
>
> I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about this
> draft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then
> this definitely a no go!
>
> /Loa
> >
> > I don't think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as "no-swap"
> > at all.
> >
> >  From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at all.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> > Vainshtein
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> > *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari
> > *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
> > much does it really save?
> >
> > +1.
> >
> > Thumb typed on my LG,
> > Sasha
> >
> > ------ Original message ------
> > *From: *Stewart Bryant
> > *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> > *To: *Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;
> > *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org ;
> > *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
> > much does it really save?
> >
> > This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that
> > these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go
> > forward.
> >
> > - Stewart
> >
> >
> > On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> >
> >     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
> >     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
> >     forward (it currently says "standards track").
> >
> >     Cheers,
> >
> >     Andy
> >
> >     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari   >     > wrote:
> >
> >     Eric
> >
> >     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
> >     optimization issue.
> >
> >     Regards,
> >     Shahram
> >
> >
> >     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen  > wrote:
> >     >
> >     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
> >     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
> >     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table. Using this draft
> >     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
> >     >> regardless of  implementation. Don't you agree?
> >     >
> >     > No.  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced'
> by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite
> string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This
> seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could  be done as an
> optimization for the particular case where the
> >     incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.  You could do this
> >     today, as a local implementation optimization. There doesn't seem to
> >     be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics.
> >     >
> >     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new
> swapped labels.
> >     >
> >     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use
> of domain-wide labels.  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide
> labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture.  I just
> don't see that it does.
> >     >
> >     > _______________________________________________
> >     > mpls mailing list
> >     >mpls@ietf.org 
> >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     mpls mailing list
> >     mpls@ietf.org 
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >
> >     mpls mailing list
> >
> >     mpls@ietf.org  
> >
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > For corporate legal information go to:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The
> > information contained in this e-mail message (including any
> > attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or
> > otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended
> > to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use,
> > dissemination, distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this
> > e-mail (including its
> > attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may
> > be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or
> > believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
> > sender immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all
> > copies of this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system,
> > and do not disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person.
> Thank you!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ********************
> The information contained in this e-mail message (including any
> attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise
> exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended to be
> conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination,
> distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this e-mail (including its
> attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may
> be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or
> believe
> that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
> immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all copies of
> this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do not
> disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank you!
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
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> mpls@ietf.org
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>

--f46d04428e40b14538051b9237f9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Shahram,=C2=A0

This is first time I see that we judge what=
 should the RFC contain by using sniffer on the wire ... but as I pointed o=
ut this is besides the point.=C2=A0

Control plane is different and what currently defined primiti=
ves require control plane to provide workarounds for the missing forwarding=
 action.=C2=A0

Moreove=
r think further ... look at I2RS and MPLS YANG models. Would it contain som=
ething which is not in the MPLS architecture RFC .. I doubt as by procedura=
l requirements consulting normative reference section it will be blocked.=
=C2=A0

As a consequenc=
e it is no longer just local RP/RE to data plane trick .. we are not for ne=
w architectures impacting remote controllers which will need to use concept=
s of incoming/outgoing labels when setting data plane using global/path lab=
els.=C2=A0

Is this sou=
nd design by any means ?=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.









On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 =
at 12:06 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:
Andrew,



Focusing on just the data-plane, do you agree that externally observable be=
havior of a router that does "no-swap" is same as "swap"=
; to the same label.

If so why do you think a standards RFC for data-plane is required? since st=
andards RFC should be something that is externally visible outside of a box=
.





Thanks

Shahram




-----Original Message-----

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ie=
tf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Qu

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:55 PM

To: Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S=
. Davari

Cc: mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?



It seems I mislead folks from my previous mail.



Please let me rephrase my points. :-)



>From a ASIC design engineer point of view,=C2=A0 I wanted to say swap a=
nd no-swap is

Very different meaning.



As long as there is a defined swap operation, I have to design the "sw=
ap" completely

In ASIC logic.



If there is a "no-swap" operation defined, then my ASIC engineer =
will implement it differently

than swap.



I used "TTL" and EXP handling as example.=C2=A0 Since the label i=
s to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack,

then the design of SWAPING need to consider TTL handling such as

1) just decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as usin=
g local new register stored value to

=C2=A0 Fill the sawp'ed new label stack.



And in reality,=C2=A0 the ASIC may chose a HW adjacency storage which has c=
omplete label stack space,=C2=A0 SW is resonspile

To file them up to fulfill so called "swap" operation.



When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,=C2=A0 ASIC engineer =
would implement such operation completely differently in

Real RTL design with regarding how to handling TTL or EXP.



If I am putting NETWORK meaning aside for the moment,=C2=A0 the wording in =
RFC about "swap" and "no-swap" is already making differ=
ence

to inplementor already.=C2=A0 So that is what I meant that as RFC writer, w=
e should be as clear as possible.







That is first of my points.



My next point is that:



As matter of fact,=C2=A0 "no-swap" operation has huge difference =
in the following implementation than "swap".



For example:



When without "no-swap" operation defined, in order to achieve &qu=
ot;no-swap" result, as you suggested,

I would simply copy "in-label" and write it back to "out-lab=
el", but to HW, it means that

for different in-label, I must use different HW adjacency to support "=
no-swap" result.

So it will be 1-1 mapping of using adjacencies of HW resource even they sha=
re the rest of rewrite

Information such out going port and DMAC/SMAC etc.





However if we do have a "no-swap" operation defined,=C2=A0 then I=
 can share no matter of how many in-coming

Label with just "ONE" HW adjacence to rewrite the in-coming packe=
ts.



The adjacency instruction would simply just be "no operation on label =
value, decrement TTL" and using

"out_port, DMAC, SMAC"=C2=A0 for all the incoming packet with dif=
ferent labels.



This is huge saving in terms of implementation when "no-swap" is =
defiend as a MPLS opearation option for

a ASIC design engineer..



Lastly, I still personally believe,=C2=A0 the network meaning of "swap=
" and "no-swap" can't be treated the same.

As Robert pointed out,=C2=A0 SR also has "CONTINUE" operation as =
well,=C2=A0 why SR keep that operation if we thing

SWAP is good to cover all cases including "CONTINUE" ?



The local implementation may use the "same" way to meet two diffe=
rent requirements does NOT mean they

Are the same, so from standard RFC point of view, we should not leave it as=
 it is,=C2=A0 I feel when use

Case arises, we should add the clarification such as this draft to clarify.=




Thanks,



Andrew





















-----Original Message-----

From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:59 PM

To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Da=
vari

Cc: mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much doe=
s it really save?



Andrew,



On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:

> I don't agree no-swap is the same as "swap with same value&qu=
ot;.

>

> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for<=
br>
> people to implement

>

> Either SW or HW.

>

> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider

>

> 1)TTL

>

> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value

>

> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)

>

> If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do something

>

> If not=3D> then I need to do something else.

>

> However if it is really a "no-swap",=C2=A0 then it is very c=
lear for HW/SW

> to implement such operation.

>

> I don't need to consider any part of above cases.



I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about thi=
s draft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then t=
his definitely a no go!



/Loa

>

> I don't think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as "=
no-swap"

> at all.

>

>=C2=A0 From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here =
at all.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Andrew

>

> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-boun=
ces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander

> Vainshtein

> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM

> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G. Malis; S. Davari

> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org

> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
> much does it really save?

>

> +1.

>

> Thumb typed on my LG,

> Sasha

>

> ------ Original message ------

> *From: *Stewart Bryant

> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58

> *To: *Andrew G. Malis;S. Davari;

> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>;

> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
> much does it really save?

>

> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that

> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go

> forward.

>

> - Stewart

>

>

> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G. Malis wrote:

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As there are no architectural or protocol changes o=
r IANA

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0considerations, this draft should be informational =
if it goes

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0forward (it currently says "standards track&qu=
ot;).

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers,

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Andy

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S. Davari=C2=A0 &l=
t;davarish@yahoo.com

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:da=
varish@yahoo.com>> wrote:

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Eric

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I agree no standard change is required since this i=
s a local

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0optimization issue.

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards,

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Shahram

>

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen <=
;erosen@juniper.net <mailto:erosen@juniper.net>> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote=
:

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> The new swapped labels (The outgoing=C2=A0=
 label that replaces the

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> incoming label) need to be stored in a tab=
le. Using this draft

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> reduces the number of swapped labels that =
needs to be stored,

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> regardless of=C2=A0 implementation. Don=
9;t you agree?

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> No.=C2=A0 If you notice that the incoming labe=
l needs to be 'replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, yo=
u could just make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the=
 top label on the stack.=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests, bu=
t it could=C2=A0 be done as an optimization for the particular case where t=
he

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.=
=C2=A0 You could do this

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0today, as a local implementation optimization. Ther=
e doesn't seem to

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be any interop issue or any change to the data plan=
e semantics.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> It also reduces the configuration and mana=
gement of the new swapped labels.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> We're not discussing whether there are any=
 advantages to the use of domain-wide labels.=C2=A0 We're discussing wh=
ether the use of domain-wide labels requires a change in the forwarding pla=
ne architecture.=C2=A0 I just don't see that it does.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> ______________________________________________=
_

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> mpls mailing list

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>mpls@ietf.org<=
/a> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/mpls

>

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mpls mailing list

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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
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>

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________

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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mpls mailing list

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mpls@ietf.org=
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>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
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>

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>

>

> --

>

> For corporate legal information go to:

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>

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> http://www.cisco.com/web/abou=
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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Shahram Davari , Loa Andersson , "Alexander Vainshtein" , Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Shahram,

That is not a fair question in the first place=2E  SWAP is defined in RFC =
which is already
Data-plane behavior, then why we purposely ignore to mention "no_swap"?

why only "no_swap" is data-plane specific but not swap?=20

To me, Swap and no_swap is a twin siblings, they come together=2E

Missing "no_swap" in the RFC when "swap" was originally brought is mistake =
in the first place,
We should do due diligence to correct it when it is really needed=2E

Considering the following:
1) if NO_SWAP is additionally added but NOT breaking ANY existing framework
2) huge benefit might be potentially achieved
3) NO_SWAP is naturally coming after "SWAP" which RFC is defined in the =
first place=2E

Then on what base, we should not clarify it with an incremental change =
document?

Thanks,

Andrew




-----Original Message-----
From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom=2Ecom]=20
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:06 AM
To: Andrew Qu; Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew =
G=2E Malis; S=2E Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: RE: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

Andrew,

Focusing on just the data-plane, do you agree that externally observable =
behavior of a router that does "no-swap" is same as "swap" to the same =
label=2E
If so why do you think a standards RFC for data-plane is required? since =
standards RFC should be something that is externally visible outside of a =
box=2E


Thanks
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf=2Eorg] On Behalf Of Andrew Qu
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:55 PM
To: Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G=2E Malis;=
 S=2E Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

It seems I mislead folks from my previous mail=2E

Please let me rephrase my points=2E :-)

>From a ASIC design engineer point of view,  I wanted to say swap and=20
>no-swap is
Very different meaning=2E

As long as there is a defined swap operation, I have to design the "swap" =
completely In ASIC logic=2E

If there is a "no-swap" operation defined, then my ASIC engineer will =
implement it differently than swap=2E

I used "TTL" and EXP handling as example=2E  Since the label is to be =
"swap"ed with a new LABEL stack, then the design of SWAPING need to =
consider TTL handling such as
1) just decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as =
using local new register stored value to
  Fill the sawp'ed new label stack=2E

And in reality,  the ASIC may chose a HW adjacency storage which has =
complete label stack space,  SW is resonspile To file them up to fulfill so=
 called "swap" operation=2E

When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would implement=
 such operation completely differently in Real RTL design with regarding =
how to handling TTL or EXP=2E

If I am putting NETWORK meaning aside for the moment,  the wording in RFC =
about "swap" and "no-swap" is already making difference to inplementor =
already=2E  So that is what I meant that as RFC writer, we should be as =
clear as possible=2E



That is first of my points=2E =20

My next point is that:

As matter of fact,  "no-swap" operation has huge difference in the =
following implementation than "swap"=2E

For example:

When without "no-swap" operation defined, in order to achieve "no-swap" =
result, as you suggested, I would simply copy "in-label" and write it back =
to "out-label", but to HW, it means that for different in-label, I must use=
 different HW adjacency to support "no-swap" result=2E
So it will be 1-1 mapping of using adjacencies of HW resource even they =
share the rest of rewrite Information such out going port and DMAC/SMAC =
etc=2E


However if we do have a "no-swap" operation defined,  then I can share no =
matter of how many in-coming Label with just "ONE" HW adjacence to rewrite =
the in-coming packets=2E

The adjacency instruction would simply just be "no operation on label =
value, decrement TTL" and using "out_port, DMAC, SMAC"  for all the =
incoming packet with different labels=2E

This is huge saving in terms of implementation when "no-swap" is defiend as=
 a MPLS opearation option for a ASIC design engineer=2E=2E

Lastly, I still personally believe,  the network meaning of "swap" and =
"no-swap" can't be treated the same=2E
As Robert pointed out,  SR also has "CONTINUE" operation as well,  why SR =
keep that operation if we thing SWAP is good to cover all cases including =
"CONTINUE" ?

The local implementation may use the "same" way to meet two different =
requirements does NOT mean they Are the same, so from standard RFC point of=
 view, we should not leave it as it is,  I feel when use Case arises, we =
should add the clarification such as this draft to clarify=2E

Thanks,

Andrew










-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi=2Enu]
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:59 PM
To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew G=2E Malis; =
S=2E Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

Andrew,

On 2015-07-23 16:01, Andrew Qu wrote:
> I don't agree no-swap is the same as "swap with same value"=2E
>
> I think if standard adds a no-swap operation, that would be great for=20
> people to implement
>
> Either SW or HW=2E
>
> Once the label is defined as swap, I need to consider
>
> 1)TTL
>
> Copy payload TTL ? or using const_value
>
> 2)QoS (pipe mode or not)
>
> If pipe mode =3D> then I need to do something
>
> If not=3D> then I need to do something else=2E
>
> However if it is really a "no-swap",  then it is very clear for HW/SW=20
> to implement such operation=2E
>
> I don't need to consider any part of above cases=2E

I've a little bit ambivalent (mostly thought this is a no go) about this =
draft, bur if we say that no-swap and not considering TTL and QOS, then =
this definitely a no go!

/Loa
>
> I don't think swaping a same value label is NOT the same as "no-swap"=20
> at all=2E
>
>  From Standard point of view, we should NOT leave ambiguity here at =
all=2E
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf=2Eorg] *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:05 PM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant; Andrew G=2E Malis; S=2E Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf=2Eorg
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how=20
> much does it really save?
>
> +1=2E
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Stewart Bryant
> *Date: *21/07/2015 17:58
> *To: *Andrew G=2E Malis;S=2E Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf=2Eorg ;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how=20
> much does it really save?
>
> This draft proposes architectural changes, and as we can show that=20
> these changes are not needed, in my view, this draft should not go=20
> forward=2E
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> On 21/07/2015 09:02, Andrew G=2E Malis wrote:
>
>     As there are no architectural or protocol changes or IANA
>     considerations, this draft should be informational if it goes
>     forward (it currently says "standards track")=2E
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andy
>
>     On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:52 PM, S=2E Davari       > wrote:
>
>     Eric
>
>     I agree no standard change is required since this is a local
>     optimization issue=2E
>
>     Regards,
>     Shahram
>
>
>     > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Eric C Rosen > wrote:
>     >
>     >> On 7/20/2015 2:07 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:
>     >> The new swapped labels (The outgoing  label that replaces the
>     >> incoming label) need to be stored in a table=2E Using this draft
>     >> reduces the number of swapped labels that needs to be stored,
>     >> regardless of  implementation=2E Don't you agree?
>     >
>     > No=2E  If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced'=
 by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite =
string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack=2E  This =
seems to be what the draft suggests, but it could  be done as an =
optimization for the particular case where the
>     incoming and outgoing labels have the same value=2E  You could do =
this
>     today, as a local implementation optimization=2E There doesn't seem =
to
>     be any interop issue or any change to the data plane semantics=2E
>     >
>     >> It also reduces the configuration and management of the new =
swapped labels=2E
>     >
>     > We're not discussing whether there are any advantages to the use of=
 domain-wide labels=2E  We're discussing whether the use of domain-wide =
labels requires a change in the forwarding plane architecture=2E  I just =
don't see that it does=2E
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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
To: Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Opportunistic Security in MPLS Networks
        Authors         : Adrian Farrel
                          Stephen Farrell
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt-00.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2015-07-23

Abstract:
   This document describes a way to apply opportunistic security
   between adjacent nodes on an MPLS Label Switched Path (LSP) or
   between end points of an LSP.  It explains how keys may be agreed
   to enable encryption, and how key identifiers are exchanged in
   encrypted MPLS packets.  Finally, this document describes the
   applicability of this approach to opportunistic security in MPLS
   networks with an indication of the level of improved security as
   well as the continued vulnerabilities.

   This document does not describe security for MPLS control plane
   protocols.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-opportunistic-encrypt-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: David Sinicrope 
To: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Coordination of YANG models
Thread-Index: AQHQxT3jrCW85gfDiEKa5U2Z/o1Uop3pPocAgAE9p4A=
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 07:24:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Coordination of YANG models
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Hi All,=20
It wou... uh...=20
what Andy said.

-Dave




> On Jul 23, 2015, at 14:31, Andrew G. Malis  wrote:
>=20
> Loa,
>=20
> It would help for you to mention the Routing Area's YANG coordination Wiki=
, https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoord .
>=20
> In particular, prospective YANG draft authors in the routing area should r=
ead this page, and then use the tables at https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/r=
tg/trac/wiki/RtgYangCoordSummary to see if anyone has already written a YANG=
 model of interest, it may keep you from duplicating existing work. If you d=
o write a new YANG model, it should be enterered into the table so that othe=
r people will be aware of it.
>=20
> This applies to all YANG models in the routing area, not just in the mpls W=
G.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Andy
>=20
>=20
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Loa Andersson  wrote:
>>=20
>> Authors of MPLS wg YANG models,
>>=20
>> At the MPLS wg meeting yesterday we had a discussion on overlap between
>> different YANG models. It was alleged that there is a huge overlap
>> between the YANG models and that there is a substantial need for
>> coordination.
>>=20
>> There were opinions in the meeting spanning from "This will sort it out
>> itself in the end!" to "Some person with the authority need to do the
>> coordination!" I guess that the majority were somewhere in the middle
>> ground.
>>=20
>> Here is (at least a temporary) direction for the MPLS wg:
>>=20
>>    "The authors of the YANG models progressed in the MPLS working
>>     group will have to coordinate with other YANG model author
>>     groups (within and outside the MPLS wg) to find and address
>>     overlap."
>>=20
>> MPLS wg chairs will help when necessary, but initiative should come
>> from the author groups.
>>=20
>> I think there might be a companion question; "Are there YANG models
>> that we need to do, but that we have not yet identified?"
>>=20
>> /Loa
>>=20
>> PS
>> There is a problem with using the document alias, so I tried to
>> extract the mail-addresses for everyone list as an author for
>> one of the documents. If I missed someone please forward this
>> message.
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace Multipath Support for Link Aggregation Group (LAG) Interfaces
        Authors         : Nobo Akiya
                          George Swallow
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Bruno Decraene
                          John E. Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-01.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2015-07-23

Abstract:
   This document defines an extension to the MPLS Label Switched Path
   (LSP) Ping and Traceroute as specified in RFC 4379.  The extension
   allows the MPLS LSP Ping and Traceroute to discover and exercise
   specific paths of Layer 2 (L2) Equal-Cost Multipath (ECMP) over Link
   Aggregation Group (LAG) interfaces.

   This document updates RFC4379 and RFC6424.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-lag-multipath-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: "Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.ietf.org" 
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Cc: "rcallon@juniper.net" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03
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Hi Thomas,
would greatly appreciate if you kindly review proposed changes to address y=
our comments. I've attached diff and MS copy of what may be next version.

                Regards,
                                Greg


From: Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de [mailto:Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:03 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.ietf.org
Cc: rcallon@juniper.net; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; Gregory Mirsky; Jeff Tantsur=
a; mach.chen@huawei.com; Ilya@nobulus.com
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03

Hello,

I have been selected as reviewer of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky=
-mpls-bfd-directed-03.

I think the draft is coherent, technically sound and operational useful. It=
 extents the explicit path capability for the backward direction of _bidire=
ctional_ forwarding detection (BFD). The document is ready for WG adoption.

Some comments:

Section 1.1.1, Terminology:
I am not sure, whether the term _MPLS_ is really required in this section.

Section 3.1, "Case of MPLS Data Plane": Structure of sub-TLV specification.
The whole section describes, that three sub-TLV are specified for usage: "S=
tatic", "RSVP-TE" and "Segment Routing". For "Static" and "RSVP-TE", the dr=
aft refers to the according RFC (that's fine). But the structure of this se=
ction contains only a subsection for "Segment routing" and the reference to=
 the other sub-TLV is part of this subsection. I propose to add two additio=
nal subsections "Static" (3.1.x) and "RSVP-TE" (3.1.x) with the references =
and remove it from the subsection "Segment Routing" to be more coherent.

Section 3.1.2: "Segment Routing Tunnel Sub-TLV >
The section specifies the encoding of the SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the encodi=
ng of the label stack elements. I think it makes sense to describe the usag=
e of this information in the draft ("copy this information to the label sta=
ck"). Is the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases=
 on his local information or is the encoded label stack strict?

Section 3.3:
This section confused me. Maybe it should be considered to be rewritten (or=
 explained specifically to me).
Who is the _initiator_ in this case for the BFD reverse path scenario?

Section 3.4: "Return Codes"
The paragraph repeats the description text of the return code 2 times.  The=
 section specifies, that the egress LSR _MAY_ send back the return code. In=
 section 3.1.1, last paragraph, the behavior is specified, that the egress =
LSR may set up the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the=
 return code (are the MAYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD sessi=
on is set up - see also comment from Nobo?). This implies, that the egress =
LSR _MUST_ send the return code, when the reverse path is not known.

Section 4 "Use case scenario":
The "value N" and "value M" are confusing, because it uses the same vocabul=
ary as the nodes in the network example (capital letter). It could be calle=
d "foobar" if it is not for interest.

Regards.

Thomas


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Hi Thomas,


would greatly appreciate =
if you kindly review proposed changes to address your comments. I’ve =
attached diff and MS copy of what may be next version.

 <=
/p>

    &=
nbsp;           Regards,<=
o:p>


    &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;  Greg


 <=
/p>

 <=
/p>





From: Thomas.B=
eckhaus@telekom.de [mailto:Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de]


Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:03 PM

To: mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.ietf.org

Cc: rcallon@juniper.net; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; Gregory Mirsky; Jeff =
Tantsura; mach.chen@huawei.com; Ilya@nobulus.com

Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03






 




Hello,






 






I have been selected as reviewer of
ht=
tp://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03.<=
/span>






 






I think the draft is coherent, technica=
lly sound and operational useful. It extents the explicit path capability f=
or the backward direction of _bidirectional_ forwarding
 detection (BFD). The document is ready for WG adoption.<=
/p>





 






Some comments:






 






Section 1.1.1, Terminology:<=
/span>






I am not sure, whether the term _MPL=
S_ is really required in this section.






 






Section 3.1, “Case of MPLS Data P=
lane”: Structure of sub-TLV specification.






The whole section describes, that three=
 sub-TLV are specified for usage: “Static”, “RSVP-TE̶=
1; and “Segment Routing”. For “Static” and “R=
SVP-TE”, the draft refers to the according
 RFC (that’s fine). But the structure of this section contains only a=
 subsection for “Segment routing” and the reference to the othe=
r sub-TLV is part of this subsection. I propose to add two additional subse=
ctions “Static” (3.1.x) and “RSVP-TE” (3.1.x) with
 the references and remove it from the subsection ”Segment Routing=
221; to be more coherent.






 






Section 3.1.2: “Segment Routing T=
unnel Sub-TLV »






The section specifies the encoding of t=
he SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the encoding of the label stack elements. I think=
 it makes sense to describe the usage of this information
 in the draft (“copy this information to the label stack”). Is =
the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases on his l=
ocal information or is the encoded label stack strict?





 






Section 3.3:






This section confused me. Maybe it shou=
ld be considered to be rewritten (or explained specifically to me).






Who is the _initiator_ in this c=
ase for the BFD reverse path scenario?






 






Section 3.4: “Return Codes”=







The paragraph repeats the description t=
ext of the return code 2 times.  The section specifies, that the egres=
s LSR _MAY_ send back the return code. In section 3.1.1,
 last paragraph, the behavior is specified, that the egress LSR may set up =
the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the return code (a=
re the MAYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD session is set up &#=
8211; see also comment from Nobo?). This
 implies, that the egress LSR _MUST_ send the return code, when the =
reverse path is not known.






 






Section 4 “Use case scenario̶=
1;:






The “value N” and “va=
lue M” are confusing, because it uses the same vocabulary as the node=
s in the network example (capital letter). It could be called “foobar=
” if it is
 not for interest.






 






Regards.






 






Thomas






 








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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Alexander Vainshtein , Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Requesting WG LC for draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf
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Dear WG Chairs,
the draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf defines data model of MPLS-TP=
 OAM configuration expressed through LSP Ping sub-TLVs. The document has be=
en updated to include comments received in course of publication process of=
 the draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext (RFC 7487).
Authors would like to ask WG Chairs to consider initiating WG LC for draft-=
ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf.

                Regards,
                                Greg

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Dear WG Chairs,


the draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf define=
s data model of MPLS-TP OAM configuration expressed through LSP Ping sub-TL=
Vs. The document has been updated to include comments received in course of=
 publication process of the draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext
 (RFC 7487).


Authors would like to ask WG Chairs to consider init=
iating WG LC for draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf.


 


        &nbs=
p;       Regards,


        &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;          Greg=







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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Request for WG adoption call of draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time
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Subject: [mpls] Request for WG adoption call of draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time
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Dear WG Chairs,
this draft proposes solution that improves accuracy of PTP clock synchroniz=
ation across MPLS network. The document been reviewed by MPLS-RT and key co=
mments been addressed in the latest published version.
Authors would like to ask you to consider initiate WG Adoption Call of the =
draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time.

                Regards,
                                Greg

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221883630eusaamb103erics_
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Dear WG Chairs,


this draft proposes solution that improves accuracy =
of PTP clock synchronization across MPLS network. The document been reviewe=
d by MPLS-RT and key comments been addressed in the latest published versio=
n.


Authors would like to ask you to consider initiate W=
G Adoption Call of the draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time.


 


        &nbs=
p;       Regards,


        &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;          Greg=







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From: Lizhenbin 
To: "mpls@ietf.org" , Andrew Qu , Alexander Vainshtein , Shahram Davari , Robert Raszuk 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 08:40:05 +0000
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From: Xuxiaohu 
To: Alexander Vainshtein , Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 08:59:47 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:41 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Xuxiaohu 
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--089e011600025697aa051b9b4bc5
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Xu,

I very much agree 100% with your comments and comments from Robin.

Thank you,
R.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Xuxiaohu  wrote:

>  Hi Sasha,
>
>
>
> Regarding why anycast segment would require global labels, please look
> at page 4 of this .pdf (
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-spring-1.pdf). IMHO,
>  it seems more acceptable to use global labels rather than introducing a
> new forwarding paradigm (i.e., SID-based forwarding) to achieve anycast
> segment functionality.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Xiaohu
>  ------------------------------
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Alexander Vainshtein [Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com]
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2015=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=
=A5 16:31
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Xuxiaohu; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* mpls@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap=
 - how much does
> it really save?
>
>   Xiaohu hi!
>
>
>
> First of all I think that you are asking the right question:-( .
>
>
>
> This said I think that the answer to this question is NO.
>
>
>
> I do not see why anycast segment in SR would require global labels - coul=
d
> you please elaborate?
>
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Xuxiaohu
> *Date: *24/07/2015 10:49
> *To: *Alexander Vainshtein;Robert Raszuk;Shahram Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org;
> *Subject:*re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>  Hi all,
>
>
>
> Before considering the possible MPLS forwarding optimization for global
> labels (a.k.a., domain-wide labels), should we firstly legalize the usage
> of global labels within the MPLS community? BTW, I believe global labels
> would be very useful and neccessary in some use cases, such as anycast
> segment.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Xiaohu
>  ------------------------------
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* mpls [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=
=A1=A8 Alexander Vainshtein [
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2015=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=
=A5 13:26
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* mpls@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap=
 - how much does
> it really save?
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Please note that CONTINUE in SPRING is:
>
> 1. A DP-agnostic primitive
>
> 2. *Implemented* as SWAP instruction with MPLS DP.
>
>
>
> So claiming equivalence of CONTINUE and NO-SWAP seems to be inaccurate IM=
O.
>
>
>
> As for global labels (in SDN, MPLS-TP or any other technology) - this
> definitely looks to me like a very bad idea for networks comprised of
> devices that support different label ranges. From my experience these
> scenarios have been encountered in real MPLS-TP deployments  and resulted
> in eventually dropping the "simple" solution as live networks have been
> extended with new NEs supporting a more narrow label space than the
> original ones.
>
>
>
> Adding a new forwarding primitive to MPLS architecture (yet another
> argument on this thread) immediately raises the question:
>
>
>
> Is support of the new primitive mandatory?
>
>
>
> If it is not (and this is clearly the case for NO-SWAP), then why should
> we bother? Occam's rasor cuts this off IMHO.
>
>
>
> My personal bottom line: this is a strictly NO GO proposal.
>
>
>
> My 2c.
>
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Robert Raszuk
> *Date: *24/07/2015 00:22
> *To: *Shahram Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>  The point is that new control plane is already defined. In fact we
> already have two :)
>
>  As I mentioned in my first mail to the list the concept of
> NO_SWAP/CONTINUE is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architecture=
s.
>
>  Ref: https://goo.gl/3oxRbl
>
>  Thx,
> R.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari  
> wrote:
>
>>  Robert,
>>
>>
>>
>> So instead of calling it no-swap probably you should call it global labe=
l
>> or so, and then define new control plane for it. But seems the data-pane
>> behavior does not change and existing hardware can support this global
>> label.  So maybe you just need new control plane.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thx
>> Shahram
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Robe=
rt
>> Raszuk
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM
>> *To:* Shahram Davari
>> *Cc:* Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
>> much does it really save?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Shahram,
>>
>>
>>
>> Labels which are non of a local significance can be distributed by
>> flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessions (BG=
P
>> 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)
>>
>>
>>
>> The important part is that the actual forwarding is computed recursively
>> or set at the controller.
>>
>>
>>
>> AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play any role in such
>> distribution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> R.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>>
>>
>> How are these labels distributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Shahram
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Robe=
rt
>> Raszuk
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM
>> *To:* Eric C Rosen
>> *Cc:* Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how
>> much does it really save?
>>
>>
>>
>> =E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
>>
>>
>>
>>  =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>>
>> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
>> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
>> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems t=
o
>> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for =
the
>> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same val=
ue.
>>
>>
>>
>> =E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.
>>
>>
>>
>> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
>> architectures there is no such things.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.
>>
>>
>>
>> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from
>> single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now al=
so
>> data plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
>> suggestion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feare=
d
>> to be non compliant to new RFC ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thx,
>>
>> R.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--089e011600025697aa051b9b4bc5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Xu,

<=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small">I very much agree 100% with your comments and comments fr=
om Robin.

Thank you,
R.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu=
@huawei.com> wrote:










Hi Sasha,


=C2=A0


Regarding why anycast segment would=C2=A0require global labels, please=
=C2=A0look at=C2=A0page 4=C2=A0of=C2=A0this=C2=A0.pdf=C2=A0(https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-spring-1.pdf=
). IMHO, =C2=A0it seems=C2=A0more
 acceptable=C2=A0to use global labels rather than introducing a new forward=
ing paradigm (i.e., SID-based forwarding) to achieve anycast segment functi=
onality.


=C2=A0


Best regards,


Xiaohu






=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Alexander Vainshtein [Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@ecitele.com]

=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2015=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=
=97=A5 16:31

=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari=


=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mpls@ietf.org

=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-s=
wap - how much does it really save?










Xiaohu hi!


=C2=A0


First of all I think that you=
 are asking the right question:-( .


=C2=A0


This said I think that the an=
swer to this question is NO.=C2=A0


=C2=A0


I do not see why anycast segm=
ent in SR would require global labels - could you please elaborate?


=C2=A0

Thumb typed on my LG,

Sasha



------ Original message ------

From:=C2=A0Xuxiaohu

Date:=C2=A024/07/2015 10:49

To:=C2=A0Alexander Vainshtein;Robert Raszuk;Shahram Davari;

Cc:=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org;

Subject:re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how mu=
ch does it really save?






Hi all,


=C2=A0


Before considering the possible MPLS forwarding optimization for global =
labels (a.k.a., domain-wide labels), should we firstly legalize the usage o=
f global labels within the MPLS community? BTW, I believe global labels wou=
ld be very useful and neccessary
 in some use cases, such as anycast segment.


=C2=A0


Best regards,


Xiaohu






=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: mpls [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=
=A8 Alexander Vainshtein [Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com]=


=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2015=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=
=97=A5 13:26

=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari

=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mpls@ietf.org

=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-s=
wap - how much does it really save?






=C2=A0




Hi all,


Please note that CONTINUE in =
SPRING is:


1. A DP-agnostic primitive

2. *Implemented* as SWAP inst=
ruction with MPLS DP.


=C2=A0


So claiming equivalence of CO=
NTINUE and NO-SWAP seems to be inaccurate IMO.


=C2=A0


As for global labels (in SDN,=
 MPLS-TP or any other technology) - this definitely looks to me like a very=
 bad idea for networks comprised of devices that support different label ra=
nges. From my experience these
 scenarios have been encountered in real MPLS-TP deployments =C2=A0and resu=
lted in eventually dropping the "simple" solution as live network=
s have been extended with new NEs supporting a more narrow label space than=
 the original ones.


=C2=A0


Adding a new forwarding primi=
tive to MPLS architecture (yet another argument on this thread) immediately=
 raises the question:


=C2=A0


Is support of the new primiti=
ve mandatory?


=C2=A0


If it is not (and this is cle=
arly the case for NO-SWAP), then why should we bother? Occam's rasor cu=
ts this off IMHO.


=C2=A0


My personal bottom line: this=
 is a strictly NO GO proposal.


=C2=A0


My 2c.


=C2=A0

Thumb typed on my LG,

Sasha



------ Original message ------

From:=C2=A0Robert Raszuk

Date:=C2=A024/07/2015 00:22

To:=C2=A0Shahram Davari;


Cc:=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org;

Subject:Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how mu=
ch does it really save?













The point is that new control plane is already defined. In fact we already =
have two :)=C2=A0









As I mentioned in my first mail to the list the concept of NO_SWAP/CONTINUE=
 is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architectures.=C2=A0









Ref:=C2=A0https://goo.g=
l/3oxRbl









Thx,

R.













On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari=
=C2=A0 <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:








Robert,


=C2=A0


So instead of calling it no-swa=
p probably you should call it global label or so, and then define new contr=
ol plane for it. But seems the data-pane behavior
 does not change and existing hardware can support this global label.=C2=A0=
 So maybe you just need new control plane.


=C2=A0


Thx

Shahram


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM

To: Shahram Davari

Cc: Eric C Rosen;=C2=A0stbryant@cisco.com;=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org






Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?




=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Hi Shahram,






=C2=A0






Labels which are non of a local significance can be distribute=
d by flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessions (=
BGP 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)=C2=A0






=C2=A0






The important part is that the actual forwarding is computed r=
ecursively or set at the controller.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play any ro=
le in such distribution.






=C2=A0






Regards,






R.






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari <=
;davari@broadcom.c=
om> wrote:






Hi Robert,


=C2=A0


How are these labels distribute=
d? Via LDP or via SDN controller?



=C2=A0


Thanks


Shahram


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM

To: Eric C Rosen

Cc: Shahram Davari;=C2=A0stbryant@cisco.com;=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0












=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B












=C2=A0








=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B




If you notice that the incoming label needs to be &#=
39;replaced' by an outgoing label of the same value, you could just mak=
e the rewrite string shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on th=
e stack.=C2=A0 This seems to be what the draft suggests,
 but it could be done as an optimization for the particular case where the =
incoming and outgoing labels have the same value.






=C2=A0








=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statem=
ent fails.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lab=
le" ... well in the new architectures there is no such things.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






It is a "global label" or "path label" wit=
h adjacency information.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up=
 from single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now=
 also data plane must be smart to check that and program
 its state per your suggestion.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chip=
sets feared to be non compliant to new RFC ?=C2=A0






=C2=A0








Many thx,






R.






=C2=A0




















=C2=A0






































--089e011600025697aa051b9b4bc5--


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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Lizhenbin , "mpls@ietf.org" , Alexander Vainshtein , Shahram Davari , Robert Raszuk 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Rolf Winter 
To: Alexander Vainshtein 
Thread-Topic: draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHQr17KwZBID3vsg0edcC6q5VGWJJ3nUE3AgAAMGgCAAyf6UA==
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:23:39 +0000
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References: <040c01d09c3f$2f060220$8d120660$@olddog.co.uk>  <791AD3077F94194BB2BDD13565B6295D99DB996E@PALLENE.office.hd> 
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Cc: 'Loa Andersson' , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
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See inline [things we agree on snipped]

NEC Europe Ltd | Registered Office: Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End=
  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in England 2832014

> b) when the GAL is used for section OAM, then setting the TTL to 1 is
> necessary as it is used for addressing.
>=20
> This is a noteworthy exception to the rule outlined in the document.
>=20
> [[Sasha]] I may be missing something but I do not really understand why
> such an exception is required.
>=20
> I assume that by "Section OAM" you refer to the case when the top LSE
> in the label stack contains GAL.
>=20
> If this is correct, then this LSE  (being the top one) would be
> examined by the LSR at the other end of the data link, and the packet
> immediately identified as an OAM packet based on the fact that the
> examined LSE contains GAL. Further disposition of this packet would be
> then decided by the packet type as encoded in the GACH and, if
> necessary, buy packet type-specific means. This would happen regardless
> of the TTL value in this LSE. Setting it to 1 should not really change
> anything IMHO.

Well, the TTL is being used here for addressing and you want to change thes=
e semantics. Architecturally, this doesn't seem right. If "just look at the=
 label" is a valid fix to the problem, why not fixing the receivers that ha=
ve the problem. Why changing all the senders?

>=20
>=20
>=20
> Generally, the proposal begs the question "why having all senders
> change when the problem seems to be in some receivers".
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Best,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Rolf
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> NEC Europe Ltd | Registered Office: Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West
> End  Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in England 2832014
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
>=20
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org  bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of George Swallow
>=20
> > (swallow)
>=20
> > Sent: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2015 17:51
>=20
> > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk  ; Alexander
> Vainshtein; mpls@ietf.org 
>=20
> > Cc: 'Loa Andersson'
>=20
> > Subject: [mpls] draft-vainshtein-mpls-gal-tc-ttl-handling-00.txt
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Sasha, Adrian -
>=20
> >
>=20
> > In the abstract this document claims to "clarify" RFC5586.  However
> it
>=20
> > actually modifies the behavior in two ways.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > First in section 4.2.1.1, RFC5586 states:
>=20
> >
>=20
> >   The TTL field of the GAL LSE MUST be set to at least 1.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > This can equally be stated as "MUST NOT set the TTL to 0.  However
>=20
> > this document changes that to "SHOULD NOT".  I see absolutely no
>=20
> > reason for this change.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Second, as per 5586 a receiver that discarded a received GAL with
>=20
> > TTL=3D0 was not out of compliance with that rfc.  Now you say that a
>=20
> > receiver that a receiver "that examines an LSE that contains the GAL
>=20
> > MUST ignore the value of the TTL field".
>=20
> >
>=20
> > So a piece of hardware, say an ASIC, was designed years ago to
> discard
>=20
> > packets with a TTL of 0 in the top label is now out of compliance
>=20
> > whereas in RFC5586 the fault in this situation would lie clearly with
>=20
> > the sender.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Now suppose further that our ASIC is also programmed to put packets
>=20
> > with a TTL of 1 in the top label on the slow path.  Here the ASIC is
>=20
> > not ignoring the TTL value - it is making a decision based on it.  It
>=20
> > is, however, still enabling a CP or RP to process the GAL.  This, of
>=20
> > course, may not be optimal, but it should not be illegal.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > So how about we say that "the LER that originates the G-ACh packet
>=20
> > SHOULD
>=20
> >    NOT set this value to 1 and MUST NOT set this value to 0."
>=20
> >
>=20
> > For the receiver, I think it suffices to say "SHOULD ignore the value
>=20
> > of the TTL field".  But if you want to work a MUST into the language
> -
>=20
> > its scope should not include the value 0 and the language should not
>=20
> > be about "examining".
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Something like "MUST not discard =A9 based on a TTL value of 1 or
> more."
>=20
> >
>=20
> > George
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > _______________________________________________
>=20
> > mpls mailing list
>=20
> > mpls@ietf.org 
>=20
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 


From nobody Fri Jul 24 02:30:12 2015
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References:   <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8CA1BFBE@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:30:03 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Andrew Qu 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Another way to look at this is that SWAP requires awarness of peer's labels
either by flooding, by p2p protocol like LDP or via learning to controller
and pushing it back in p2mp fashion.

NO_SWAP does not have such dependency. It can be educated about just
endpoint label mapping from controller and actual forwarding and adj
creation will be local based on the vanilla IGP SPF.

To me this is fundamental difference.

Cheers,
R.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Andrew Qu  wrote:

>  Agreed!   From networking point of view,  no_swap and swap is simply
> different fundamentally.  We should address that.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 10:40 AM
> *To:* mpls@ietf.org; Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Shahram Davari;
> Robert Raszuk
> *Subject:* =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no=
-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I think the concept is one hand, the implementation is another hand. I
> would like to clarify more about it.
>
> 1. Now all of us debates if there is NO_SWAP. I want to ask one question:
> Should there be SWAP? In fact, according to implementation, the SWAP can =
be
> seen as POP a label, then PUSH a label.
>
> If so, POP and PUSH is enough. Why is there SWAP.
>
> 2. For the NO_SWAP, as the introduction of H-SDN and Segment Routing, at
> least in concept, there should introduce one new label operation. Regardi=
ng
> the implementation you can use SWAP same label, or POP one label and PUSH
> the same label if you like. There is also the possible way introduced in
> the draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap.
>
>
>
> In addition I would like to propose the suggestion that a totally new ter=
m
> for the NO_SWAP label operation should be introduced such as CONTINUE, GO=
,
> DIRECTGO, etc. Why must we make it related with the existing the label
> operations?
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Zhenbin(Robin)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* mpls [mpls-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=
=E8=A1=A8 Andrew Qu [andrew.qu@mediatek.com
> ]
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2015=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=
=A5 16:06
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Sha=
hram Davari
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81**:* mpls@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98**:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-sw=
ap - how much
> does it really save?
>
> Hi Sasha,
>
>
>
> My comments in lines=E2=80=A6
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org ] *On
> Behalf Of *Alexander Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 7:26 AM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Please note that CONTINUE in SPRING is:
>
> 1. A DP-agnostic primitive
>
> 2. *Implemented* as SWAP instruction with MPLS DP.
>
>
>
> [Andrew]  You are contradicting with 1) and 2).
>
> With =E2=80=9CCONTINUE=E2=80=9D defined in SR draft,  for NEW ASIC to be =
designed,
>
> Why should I still use =E2=80=9CSWAP=E2=80=9D to achieve it? Considering =
that I might
>
> Have good saving in precious on-board memory for the ASIC ?
>
>
>
> You can suggest that using SWAP, however you said CONTINUE is DP-agnostic=
,
> then
>
> If I do it different, I am still standard compliant. RIGHT?
>
>
>
> Again,  that is exactly my point,  SWAP is NOT the same as =E2=80=9CNO_SW=
AP=E2=80=9D.
> Once you put
>
> The wording out there,  it WILL have different impact.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So claiming equivalence of CONTINUE and NO-SWAP seems to be inaccurate IM=
O.
>
>
>
> As for global labels (in SDN, MPLS-TP or any other technology) - this
> definitely looks to me like a very bad idea for networks comprised of
> devices that support different label ranges. From my experience these
> scenarios have been encountered in real MPLS-TP deployments  and resulted
> in eventually dropping the "simple" solution as live networks have been
> extended with new NEs supporting a more narrow label space than the
> original ones.
>
>
>
> Adding a new forwarding primitive to MPLS architecture (yet another
> argument on this thread) immediately raises the question:
>
>
>
> Is support of the new primitive mandatory?
>
>
>
> If it is not (and this is clearly the case for NO-SWAP), then why should
> we bother? Occam's rasor cuts this off IMHO.
>
>
>
> My personal bottom line: this is a strictly NO GO proposal.
>
>
>
> My 2c.
>
>
>
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>
> ------ Original message ------
> *From: *Robert Raszuk
> *Date: *24/07/2015 00:22
> *To: *Shahram Davari;
> *Cc: *mpls@ietf.org;
> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> The point is that new control plane is already defined. In fact we alread=
y
> have two :)
>
>
>
> As I mentioned in my first mail to the list the concept of
> NO_SWAP/CONTINUE is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING architecture=
s.
>
>
>
> Ref: https://goo.gl/3oxRbl
>
>
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari  
> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
>
>
> So instead of calling it no-swap probably you should call it global label
> or so, and then define new control plane for it. But seems the data-pane
> behavior does not change and existing hardware can support this global
> label.  So maybe you just need new control plane.
>
>
>
> Thx
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM
> *To:* Shahram Davari
> *Cc:* Eric C Rosen; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Shahram,
>
>
>
> Labels which are non of a local significance can be distributed by
> flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direct p2p sessions (BGP
> 3107, sessions from the controller, XMPP etc ...)
>
>
>
> The important part is that the actual forwarding is computed recursively
> or set at the controller.
>
>
>
> AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP would play any role in such
> distribution.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Shahram Davari 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> How are these labels distributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Shahram
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM
> *To:* Eric C Rosen
> *Cc:* Shahram Davari; stbryant@cisco.com; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>  =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> If you notice that the incoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an
> outgoing label of the same value, you could just make the rewrite string
> shorter, so it won't overwrite the top label on the stack.  This seems to
> be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for t=
he
> particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same valu=
e.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux where your statement fails.
>
>
>
> You use term "incoming label" and "outgoing lable" ... well in the new
> architectures there is no such things.
>
>
>
> It is a "global label" or "path label" with adjacency information.
>
>
>
> So to support legacy hardware new control plane has to make up from singl=
e
> label now two (identical) labels to pass it to data plane. Now also data
> plane must be smart to check that and program its state per your
> suggestion.
>
>
>
> Why would we do that other then due to worry about legacy chipsets feared
> to be non compliant to new RFC ?
>
>
>
> Many thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Another wa=
y to look at this is that SWAP requires awarness of peer's labels eithe=
r by flooding, by p2p protocol like LDP or via learning to controller and p=
ushing it back in p2mp fashion.=C2=A0

NO_SWAP does not have such dependency. It can be educated a=
bout just endpoint label mapping from controller and actual forwarding and =
adj creation will be local based on the vanilla IGP SPF.=C2=A0

To me this is fundamental differen=
ce.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R=
.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Andrew Qu <andrew.qu@mediatek.com> wrote:











Agreed!=C2=A0=C2=A0 From =
networking point of view,=C2=A0 no_swap and swap is simply different fundam=
entally.=C2=A0 We should address that.


=C2=A0


Thanks,


=C2=A0


Andrew


=C2=A0


=C2=A0






From: Lizhenbi=
n [mailto:lizhenb=
in@huawei.com]


Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 10:40 AM

To: mpls@ietf.org=
; Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Shahram Davari; Robert Raszuk

Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=
=8D: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - h=
ow much does it really
 save?






=C2=A0




Hi all,


I think the concept is one hand, the implementat=
ion is another hand. I would like to clarify more about it.


1. Now all of us debates if there is NO_SWAP. I =
want to ask one question: Should there be SWAP? In fact, according to imple=
mentation, the SWAP can be seen as POP a label, then PUSH
 a label. 


If so, POP and PUSH is enough. Why is there SWAP=
.


2. For the NO_SWAP, as the introduction of H-SDN=
 and Segment Routing, at least in concept, there should introduce one new l=
abel operation. Regarding the implementation you can use
 SWAP same label, or POP one label and PUSH the same label if you like. The=
re is also the possible way introduced in the draft-fang-mpls-label-forward=
ing-no-swap.



=C2=A0


In addition=C2=A0I would like to propose the sug=
gestion that a totally new term for the NO_SWAP label operation should be i=
ntroduced such as CONTINUE, GO, DIRECTGO, etc. Why must we
 make it related with the existing the label operations?


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


Best Regards,


Zhenbin(Robin)


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0












=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:
 mpls [mpls-boun=
ces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Andrew Qu [andrew.qu@mediatek.com]
=
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:=

 2015=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5
 16:06

=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA:
 Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari

=E6=8A=84=
=E9=80=81:
mpls@ietf.org

=
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:
 Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it rea=
lly save?







Hi Sasha,


=C2=A0


My comments in lines=E2=80=
=A6


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0






From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Alexander Vainshtein

Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 7:26 AM

To: Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari

Cc: mpls@i=
etf.org


Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?
<=
/u>






=C2=A0


Hi all,


Please note that CONTINUE i=
n SPRING is:


1. A DP-agnostic primitive<=
/span>


2. *Implemented* as SWAP in=
struction with MPLS DP.


=C2=A0


[Andrew]=C2=A0 You are contradicting with 1) =
and 2).


With =E2=80=9CCONTINUE=E2=80=9D defined in SR=
 draft, =C2=A0for NEW ASIC to be designed,


Why should I still use =E2=80=9CSWAP=E2=80=9D=
 to achieve it? Considering that I might=



Have good saving in precious on-board memory =
for the ASIC ?


=C2=A0


You can suggest that using SWAP, however you =
said CONTINUE is DP-agnostic, then


If I do it different, I am still standard com=
pliant. RIGHT?


=C2=A0


Again,=C2=A0 that is exactly my point,=C2=A0 =
SWAP is NOT the same as =E2=80=9CNO_SWAP=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Once you put


The wording out there,=C2=A0 it WILL have dif=
ferent impact.


=C2=A0


Thanks,=



=C2=A0


Andrew<=
/u>


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


So claiming equivalence of =
CONTINUE and NO-SWAP seems to be inaccurate IMO.


=C2=A0


As for global labels (in SD=
N, MPLS-TP or any other technology) - this definitely looks to me like a ve=
ry bad idea for networks comprised of devices that support different label =
ranges. From my experience these scenarios
 have been encountered in real MPLS-TP deployments =C2=A0and resulted in ev=
entually dropping the "simple" solution as live networks have bee=
n extended with new NEs supporting a more narrow label space than the origi=
nal ones.


=C2=A0


Adding a new forwarding pri=
mitive to MPLS architecture (yet another argument on this thread) immediate=
ly raises the question:


=C2=A0


Is support of the new primi=
tive mandatory?


=C2=A0


If it is not (and this is c=
learly the case for NO-SWAP), then why should we bother? Occam's rasor =
cuts this off IMHO.=



=C2=A0


My personal bottom line: th=
is is a strictly NO GO proposal.<=
u>


=C2=A0


My 2c.


=C2=A0


Thumb typed on my LG,

Sasha



------ Original message ------

From:=C2=A0Robert Raszuk

Date:=C2=A024/07/2015 00:22

To:=C2=A0Shahram Davari;

Cc:=C2=A0mpls@iet=
f.org;

Subject:Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how mu=
ch does it really save?






=C2=A0






The point is that new control plane is already=
 defined. In fact we already have two :)=C2=A0






=C2=A0






As I mentioned in my first mail to the list th=
e concept of NO_SWAP/CONTINUE is common to both H-SDN and SEGMENT ROUTING a=
rchitectures.=C2=A0=







=C2=A0







=C2=A0






Thx,

R.






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Thu,=
 Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Shahram Davari=C2=A0 <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:=







Robert,


=C2=A0


So instead of calling it =
no-swap probably you should call it global label or so, and then define new=
 control plane for it. But seems the data-pane behavior
 does not change and existing hardware can support this global label.=C2=A0=
 So maybe you just need new control plane.


=C2=A0


Thx

Shahram


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:12 PM

To: Shahram Davari

Cc: Eric C Rosen;=C2=A0stbryant@cisco.com;=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org








Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Hi Shahram,=







=C2=A0






Labels which are non of a local significance c=
an be distributed by flooding protocols extensions (ISIS, OSPF) or by direc=
t p2p sessions (BGP 3107, sessions from the controller,
 XMPP etc ...)=C2=A0






=C2=A0






The important part is that the actual forwardi=
ng is computed recursively or set at the controller.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






AFAIK I have not seen any proposal where LDP w=
ould play any role in such distribution.=







=C2=A0






Regards,=







R.






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0








=C2=A0




On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at =
11:07 PM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:






Hi Robert,


=C2=A0


How are these labels dist=
ributed? Via LDP or via SDN controller?



=C2=A0


Thanks


Shahram


=C2=A0


From:
rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com]=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0Robert Raszuk

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:58 PM

To: Eric C Rosen

Cc: Shahram Davari;=C2=A0stbryant@cisco.com;=C2=A0mpls@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how m=
uch does it really save?


=C2=A0












=E2=80=8BHi Eric,=E2=80=8B












=C2=A0








=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B




If you notice that the i=
ncoming label needs to be 'replaced' by an outgoing label of the sa=
me value, you could just make the rewrite string shorter, so it won't o=
verwrite the top label on the stack.=C2=A0 This seems
 to be what the draft suggests, but it could be done as an optimization for=
 the particular case where the incoming and outgoing labels have the same v=
alue.






=C2=A0








=E2=80=8BThis is precisely =E2=80=8Bthe crux w=
here your statement fails.=C2=A0<=
u>






=C2=A0






You use term "incoming label" and &q=
uot;outgoing lable" ... well in the new architectures there is no such=
 things.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






It is a "global label" or "path=
 label" with adjacency information.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






So to support legacy hardware new control plan=
e has to make up from single label now two (identical) labels to pass it to=
 data plane. Now also data plane must be smart to check
 that and program its state per your suggestion.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Why would we do that other then due to worry a=
bout legacy chipsets feared to be non compliant to new RFC ?=C2=A0






=C2=A0








Many thx,






R.






=C2=A0




















=C2=A0














=C2=A0












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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would
> implement such operation completely differently

Well, this is where we came in.  The RFCs do not dictate how the ASICs
should be designed, and your ASIC designers are free to design in
whatever way best meets the needs of the systems that are going to use
those ASICs.  You can put in any optimizations you think are warranted. 
  If you expect the ASICs to be used in products that will never need to 
swap label values, never need to push labels, never need to pop labels, 
then you are free to design the ASICs without any of these features.  If 
you think that these operations are needed, but that "don't change the 
label value or the stack size" are the most common operations, you can 
certainly optimize your design for that case.

But if you think you can get the ASICs designed properly simply by 
handing the RFCs to the ASIC designers, you may be in for an unpleasant 
surprise.

> Since the label is to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack, then the
> design of SWAPPING need to consider TTL handling such as 1) just
> decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as using
> local new register stored value to Fill the sawp'ed new label stack.

The TTL handling is exactly the same for both cases.  If you have been 
telling your ASIC designers something different, you most definitely are 
in for an unpleasant surprise.







From nobody Fri Jul 24 08:11:09 2015
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From: Uma Chunduri 
To: Robert Raszuk , Andrew Qu 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A6046915200863512A7A89eusaamb105erics_--


From nobody Fri Jul 24 08:24:12 2015
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From: Jeff Tantsura 
To: Eric C Rosen 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:24:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Experience talks ;-)

Would be really great to get quantification.

Regards,
Jeff

On Jul 24, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:

>> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would
>> implement such operation completely differently
>=20
> Well, this is where we came in.  The RFCs do not dictate how the ASICs
> should be designed, and your ASIC designers are free to design in
> whatever way best meets the needs of the systems that are going to use
> those ASICs.  You can put in any optimizations you think are warranted.  =
If you expect the ASICs to be used in products that will never need to swap=
 label values, never need to push labels, never need to pop labels, then yo=
u are free to design the ASICs without any of these features.  If you think=
 that these operations are needed, but that "don't change the label value o=
r the stack size" are the most common operations, you can certainly optimiz=
e your design for that case.
>=20
> But if you think you can get the ASICs designed properly simply by handin=
g the RFCs to the ASIC designers, you may be in for an unpleasant surprise.
>=20
>> Since the label is to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack, then the
>> design of SWAPPING need to consider TTL handling such as 1) just
>> decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as using
>> local new register stored value to Fill the sawp'ed new label stack.
>=20
> The TTL handling is exactly the same for both cases.  If you have been te=
lling your ASIC designers something different, you most definitely are in f=
or an unpleasant surprise.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Eric C Rosen , Loa Andersson , "Alexander Vainshtein" , Stewart Bryant , "Andrew G. Malis" , "S. Davari" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
Thread-Index: AQHQw8aajUti3orAQEqCOvm3DZDbXZ3pFwWwgAB2V4D///4uQIABdXEA///B49A=
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:45:55 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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-----Original Message-----
From: Eric C Rosen [mailto:erosen@juniper=2Enet]=20
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:10 PM
To: Andrew Qu; Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew =
G=2E Malis; S=2E Davari
Cc: erosen@juniper=2Enet; mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would=20
> implement such operation completely differently

Well, this is where we came in=2E =20

[Andrew]  That is right, we are supposed to do some bridging works=2E  But =
when RFC is better written,=20
	You may be "called" in less and we can spend more time to do greater =
good=2E

The RFCs do not dictate how the ASICs should be designed, and your ASIC =
designers are free to design in whatever way best meets the needs of the =
systems that are going to use those ASICs=2E  You can put in any =
optimizations you think are warranted=2E=20

  If you expect the ASICs to be used in products that will never need to =
swap label values, never need to push labels, never need to pop labels, =
then you are free to design the ASICs without any of these features=2E  If =
you think that these operations are needed, but that "don't change the =
label value or the stack size" are the most common operations, you can =
certainly optimize your design for that case=2E

But if you think you can get the ASICs designed properly simply by handing =
the RFCs to the ASIC designers, you may be in for an unpleasant surprise=2E


[Andrew] I don't know where did you get this idea from,  it is funny that =
how can you concluded that when I am asking
	better written doc implies that I will simply hand off the work =
completely=2E

> Since the label is to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack, then the=20
> design of SWAPPING need to consider TTL handling such as 1) just=20
> decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as using=20
> local new register stored value to Fill the sawp'ed new label stack=2E

The TTL handling is exactly the same for both cases=2E  If you have been =
telling your ASIC designers something different, you most definitely are in=
 for an unpleasant surprise=2E

[Andrew] I am using this case to indicate better written doc might help to =
reduce confusion=2E =20
	This is the human thought process when people read "swap" and "no_swap" =
and consider how to implement
	Them=2E  Hence my point of no_swap may be defined to differentiate =
"swap"=2E =20

Thanks,

Andrew



************* Email Confidentiality Notice ********************
The information contained in this e-mail message (including any=20
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBkcmFmdC1mYW5nLW1wbHMtbGFiZWwtZm9yd2Fy?= =?utf-8?q?ding-no-swap_-_how_much_does_it_really_save=3F?=
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On 7/24/2015 4:40 AM, Lizhenbin wrote:
> In fact, according to implementation, the SWAP can be seen as POP a
> label, then PUSH a label.

Certainly the architecture could have been written this way.  But it 
wasn't ;-)  It was written in such a way as to emphasize the difference 
between operations that change the size of the label stack and 
operations that do not.

These concepts do not necessarily show up at all in the forwarding 
logic.  All the forwarding plane has to know is what the rewrite string 
is, where to put it, and how to adjust any TTL and/or checksum fields 
that might be in it.








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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Jeff Tantsura , Eric C Rosen 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
Thread-Index: AQHQw8aajUti3orAQEqCOvm3DZDbXZ3pFwWwgAB2V4D///4uQIABdXEAgAAEFYD//8NioA==
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:54:45 +0000
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References:   <55B11D6D.2040102@pi.nu> , <55B2552A.80702@juniper.net> <5365D2B8-E3A1-4C25-85B4-C82CDE03090B@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Experience should have taught us that we should strive to get our =
doc/standard written as
clear as possible and don't count on our involvement to get things =
straight=2E

With due respect, I hope that all experienced folks can learn from bad =
experiences=2E

Thanks,

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jeff=2Etantsura@ericsson=2Ecom]=20
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:24 PM
To: Eric C Rosen
Cc: Andrew Qu; Loa Andersson; Alexander Vainshtein; Stewart Bryant; Andrew =
G=2E Malis; S=2E Davari; mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

Experience talks ;-)

Would be really great to get quantification=2E

Regards,
Jeff

On Jul 24, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:

>> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would=20
>> implement such operation completely differently
>=20
> Well, this is where we came in=2E  The RFCs do not dictate how the ASICs=
=20
> should be designed, and your ASIC designers are free to design in=20
> whatever way best meets the needs of the systems that are going to use=20
> those ASICs=2E  You can put in any optimizations you think are =
warranted=2E  If you expect the ASICs to be used in products that will =
never need to swap label values, never need to push labels, never need to =
pop labels, then you are free to design the ASICs without any of these =
features=2E  If you think that these operations are needed, but that "don't=
 change the label value or the stack size" are the most common operations, =
you can certainly optimize your design for that case=2E
>=20
> But if you think you can get the ASICs designed properly simply by =
handing the RFCs to the ASIC designers, you may be in for an unpleasant =
surprise=2E
>=20
>> Since the label is to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack, then the=20
>> design of SWAPPING need to consider TTL handling such as 1) just=20
>> decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as using=20
>> local new register stored value to Fill the sawp'ed new label stack=2E
>=20
> The TTL handling is exactly the same for both cases=2E  If you have been =
telling your ASIC designers something different, you most definitely are in=
 for an unpleasant surprise=2E
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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From: Robert Raszuk 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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I always thought that #1 is "Money talks" ;).

And with that why don't we define NO_SWAP as experimental RFC and let the
market decide how useful it will be ?

If say after few years it will have zero adoption its pretty simple to move
it to historical status and consider experiment as concluded.

Best,
R.
On Jul 24, 2015 5:24 PM, "Jeff Tantsura"  wrote:

> Experience talks ;-)
>
> Would be really great to get quantification.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On Jul 24, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:
>
> >> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,  ASIC engineer would
> >> implement such operation completely differently
> >
> > Well, this is where we came in.  The RFCs do not dictate how the ASICs
> > should be designed, and your ASIC designers are free to design in
> > whatever way best meets the needs of the systems that are going to use
> > those ASICs.  You can put in any optimizations you think are warranted.
> If you expect the ASICs to be used in products that will never need to swap
> label values, never need to push labels, never need to pop labels, then you
> are free to design the ASICs without any of these features.  If you think
> that these operations are needed, but that "don't change the label value or
> the stack size" are the most common operations, you can certainly optimize
> your design for that case.
> >
> > But if you think you can get the ASICs designed properly simply by
> handing the RFCs to the ASIC designers, you may be in for an unpleasant
> surprise.
> >
> >> Since the label is to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack, then the
> >> design of SWAPPING need to consider TTL handling such as 1) just
> >> decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as using
> >> local new register stored value to Fill the sawp'ed new label stack.
> >
> > The TTL handling is exactly the same for both cases.  If you have been
> telling your ASIC designers something different, you most definitely are in
> for an unpleasant surprise.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
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>

--f46d043c07d44524d2051ba12dbb
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I always thought that #1 is "Money talks" ;).


And with that why don't we define NO_SWAP as experimenta=
l RFC and let the market decide how useful it will be ?


If say after few years it will have zero adoption its pretty=
 simple to move it to historical status and consider experiment as conclude=
d.


Best,

R.


On Jul 24, 2015 5:24 PM, "Jeff Tantsura&quo=
t; <jeff.tantsura@ericsson=
.com> wrote:
=
Experience talks ;-)



Would be really great to get quantification.



Regards,

Jeff



On Jul 24, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:



>> When standard defines a "no-swap" operation,=C2=A0 ASIC =
engineer would

>> implement such operation completely differently

>

> Well, this is where we came in.=C2=A0 The RFCs do not dictate how the =
ASICs

> should be designed, and your ASIC designers are free to design in

> whatever way best meets the needs of the systems that are going to use=


> those ASICs.=C2=A0 You can put in any optimizations you think are warr=
anted.=C2=A0 If you expect the ASICs to be used in products that will never=
 need to swap label values, never need to push labels, never need to pop la=
bels, then you are free to design the ASICs without any of these features.=
=C2=A0 If you think that these operations are needed, but that "don=
9;t change the label value or the stack size" are the most common oper=
ations, you can certainly optimize your design for that case.

>

> But if you think you can get the ASICs designed properly simply by han=
ding the RFCs to the ASIC designers, you may be in for an unpleasant surpri=
se.

>

>> Since the label is to be "swap"ed with a new LABEL stack=
, then the

>> design of SWAPPING need to consider TTL handling such as 1) just
>> decrement of original TTL or 2) using a brand new TTL, such as usi=
ng

>> local new register stored value to Fill the sawp'ed new label =
stack.

>

> The TTL handling is exactly the same for both cases.=C2=A0 If you have=
 been telling your ASIC designers something different, you most definitely =
are in for an unpleasant surprise.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> mpls mailing list

> mpls@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls




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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
> "outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
> routing

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all 
routers".  A given router only needs to implement the functionality that 
it needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.

However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming" 
and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of 
a packet is always different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, 
due to the need to modify the TTL and checksum fields.

In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be 
different than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use 
of the source routing option can result in there being a difference 
between the incoming destination address field and the outgoing 
destination address field.

Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source 
and destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing 
source and destination address fields.  If you want to optimize for 
tunnel stitching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the 
forwarding plane it looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.

Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these 
functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  Similarly, if you think 
that the most common operation (or even the only operation) your 
platform will have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the 
label stack except for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from 
optimizing for that case.

BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about 
whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that 
is not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not 
require a change in the data plane architecture.


From nobody Fri Jul 24 09:55:53 2015
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:55:29 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Eric Rosen 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Eric,

This discussion to me is not related to data plane.

I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to pass label
values to date plane.

Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send single label or
artificially send identical labels an in and out when given architecture
does not have it seems like no-op to me.

Best,
R.
On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"  wrote:

> On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>> Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
>> "outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
>> routing
>>
>
> I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all
> routers".  A given router only needs to implement the functionality that it
> needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.
>
> However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming"
> and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of a
> packet is always different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, due
> to the need to modify the TTL and checksum fields.
>
> In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be
> different than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use of
> the source routing option can result in there being a difference between
> the incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address
> field.
>
> Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source
> and destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing
> source and destination address fields.  If you want to optimize for tunnel
> stitching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane
> it looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.
>
> Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these
> functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  Similarly, if you think that
> the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform will
> have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label stack except
> for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optimizing for that
> case.
>
> BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about
> whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is
> not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require
> a change in the data plane architecture.
>

--047d7b6d9bac1d80c2051ba1df70
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Eric,


This discussion to me is not related to data plane.


I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to p=
ass label values to date plane.


Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send =
single label or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given=
 architecture does not have it seems like no-op to me.


Best,

R.


On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"=
; <erosen@juniper.net> wrot=
e:
On 7/23/2015 5:31=
 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:



Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address&quo=
t; and

"outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non=
 NAT

routing





I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in a=
ll routers".=C2=A0 A given router only needs to implement the function=
ality that it needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.



However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming=
" and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.=C2=
=A0 The incoming IP header of a packet is always different than the outgoin=
g IP header of that packet, due to the need to modify the TTL and checksum =
fields.



In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be dif=
ferent than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.=C2=A0 And use of=
 the source routing option can result in there being a difference between t=
he incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address =
field.



Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source and=
 destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing source =
and destination address fields.=C2=A0 If you want to optimize for tunnel st=
itching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane it =
looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.



Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these functi=
ons, it doesn't have to implement them.=C2=A0 Similarly, if you think t=
hat the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform wi=
ll have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label st=
ack except for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optim=
izing for that case.



BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about wheth=
er it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is not a=
 data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require a cha=
nge in the data plane architecture.




--047d7b6d9bac1d80c2051ba1df70--


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From: "Adrian Farrel" 
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:08:37 +0100
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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> BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about
> whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that
> is not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not
> require a change in the data plane architecture.

Thank you Eric!

It always saddens me when people choose to implement functional architectures as
though they were design documents for their product. Of course, the resulting
product will be functionally adequate, but it will not perform well. This
problem is well known across a number of standards organizations and we are not
immune, it would seem.

Some other standards bodies produce "equipment specifications" and these seem to
be used by a number of implementers to design their products without considering
best practices or optimizations. Equipment specifications from a  standards body
describe *a* way to achieve the required functionality, but they describe the
internals of a box and that is not something that can or should be standardized.
We specify black boxes and interoperate on the wire.

RFC 3031, as it describes the forwarding plane, is a functional architecture.
When it talks about label operations it describes, in functional terms, things
that happen and change the externally visible behavior (i.e. the packets). It is
completely true that 3031 could have described SWAP as POP'n'PUSH, and could
have introduced a term NO-SWAP equivalent to SWAP-TO-SAME or POP'n'PUSH-SAME.
But it didn't and it didn't lose any generality by doing so.

And it is OK for people to talk about NO-SWAP forwarding. You can even write an
informational I-D to say "There is an optimization in the MPLS forwarding plane
when the same label is used on a packet that comes in and goes out." I don't
believe such a document is needed, but why not write it if it helps you or you
strongly feel it might help others? It doesn't update 3031, but it provides some
alternative view. And yes, you describe all operations as POP'n'PUSH as well if
you want to, but again, I don't think it is needed.

With respect to domain-wide labels, please consider a network in which a mix of
labels is used. Some are per-interface, some are upstream-assigned, some are
per-platform, and some are global. Some LSPs terminate at this node (POP) and
some don't (SWAP, or NO-SWAP). Perhaps some LSPs are tunnelled onwards from this
node (SWAP or NO-SWAP, followed by PUSH). Perhaps other LSPs are stitched
(POP'n'PUSH, or SWAP, or NO-SWAP). When you receive a packet on an interface you
will have to examine the label and do some form of look-up. You cannot simply do
pass-through (decrementing and checking the TTL). You have to look up the label
at least to find out what type of label it is and decide what to do with it. The
look-up may be into a range or into the NHLFE for a one-to-one mapping. Etc.,
etc.

3031 does not mention global labels except for the special purpose label space.
That could be fixed with an update, or it could be observed that the global
label space is actually a mirrored (or distributed) per-platform label space
where each LSR uses the same label for the same destination. Which, by the
 way, is why SR could be supported using LDP (not that I am saying you'd want to
do this).

Thanks,
Adrian



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From: "Adrian Farrel" 
To: "'Robert Raszuk'" , "'Eric Rosen'" 
References: <55AD19F2.1010206@cisco.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73A21@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD2DAD.4060908@juniper.net> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73F3A@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD416D.2020306@juniper.net>  <55B15C59.5040105@juniper.net>  <55B267F6.80106@juniper.net> 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Robert,=20
You want to specify the interface between control plane and data plane?
That's OK (although it may have been done once or twice before).
And if you want to specify the interface between the management plane =
and the data plane, that is also OK (although it has been done before as =
well).
=20
If you want to specify that for a packet with incoming label the =
operation is NO-SWAP, that's OK.
But note that your data model (to be generic) is going to need to also =
support SWAP.
Thus, you will have objects...
IN-INTERFACE (ifid)
IN-LABEL (label)
OPERATION {POP, PUSH, SWAP, NO-SWAP}=20
OUT-INTERFACE (ifid)
OUT-LABEL (label)
=20
Setting OPERATION to NO-SWAP saves you from setting OUT-LABEL, but =
doesn't save you from needing the object in your data model. So it is a =
trade in the design of the data model and either approach is fine.=20
=20
You can see a similar model in the LSR MIB module (3813 IIRC) and in the =
olde ATM MIB modules.
=20
None of the above has the slightest to do with 3031 being right or =
wrong.
=20
Adrian
=20
=20
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: 24 July 2015 17:55
To: Eric Rosen
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
=20
Eric,
This discussion to me is not related to data plane.
I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to pass label =
values to date plane.
Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send single label =
or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given =
architecture does not have it seems like no-op to me.
Best,
R.
On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"  wrote:
On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
"outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
routing

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all =
routers".  A given router only needs to implement the functionality that =
it needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.

However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming" =
and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of =
a packet is always different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, =
due to the need to modify the TTL and checksum fields.

In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be =
different than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use =
of the source routing option can result in there being a difference =
between the incoming destination address field and the outgoing =
destination address field.

Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source =
and destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing =
source and destination address fields.  If you want to optimize for =
tunnel stitching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the =
forwarding plane it looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.

Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these =
functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  Similarly, if you think =
that the most common operation (or even the only operation) your =
platform will have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the =
label stack except for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from =
optimizing for that case.

BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about =
whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that =
is not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not =
require a change in the data plane architecture.

------=_NextPart_000_0A86_01D0C63C.BDBECD40
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Robert, =

You want to specify the =
interface between control plane and data plane?
That's OK (although it may =
have been done once or twice before).
And if you want to specify the =
interface between the management plane and the data plane, that is also =
OK (although it has been done before as well).
 
If you want to specify that =
for a packet with incoming label the operation is NO-SWAP, that's =
OK.
But note that your data model =
(to be generic) is going to need to also support =
SWAP.
Thus, you will have =
objects...
IN-INTERFACE =
(ifid)
IN-LABEL =
(label)
OPERATION {POP, PUSH, SWAP, =
NO-SWAP} 
OUT-INTERFACE =
(ifid)
OUT-LABEL =
(label)
 
Setting OPERATION to NO-SWAP =
saves you from setting OUT-LABEL, but doesn't save you from needing the =
object in your data model. So it is a trade in the design of the data =
model and either approach is fine. 
 
You can see a similar model in =
the LSR MIB module (3813 IIRC) and in the olde ATM MIB =
modules.
 
None of the above has the =
slightest to do with 3031 being right or wrong.
 
Adrian
 
 
From: mpls =
[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert =
Raszuk
Sent: 24 July 2015 17:55
To: Eric =
Rosen
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] =
draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really =
save?
 
Eric,
This =
discussion to me is not related to data plane.
I look =
at it from control plane perspective which needs to pass label values to =
date plane.
Creating non standard optimised APIs or =
YANG models to send single label or artificially send identical labels =
an in and out when given architecture does not have it seems like no-op =
to me.
Best,
R.
On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen" =
<erosen@juniper.net> =
wrote:
On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert =
Raszuk wrote:
Going by your logic we =
would have a notion of "incoming IP address" =
and
"outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing =
basic non NAT
routing

I'm not =
sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all =
routers".  A given router only needs to implement the =
functionality that it needs to provide to those who are going to deploy =
it.

However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between =
"incoming" and "outgoing" even in the case of =
"pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of a packet is always =
different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, due to the need to =
modify the TTL and checksum fields.

In addition, as you point =
out, the incoming source address field may be different than the =
outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use of the source =
routing option can result in there being a difference between the =
incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address =
field.

Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the =
incoming source and destination address fields may both be different =
than the outgoing source and destination address fields.  If you =
want to optimize for tunnel stitching, you precompute the rewrite =
string, and to the forwarding plane it looks like an ordinary case of =
forwarding a packet.

Of course, if your platform doesn't need to =
perform any of these functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  =
Similarly, if you think that the most common operation (or even the only =
operation) your platform will have to perform on an MPLS packet is =
"don't modify the label stack except for the TTL of the top =
entry", nothing stops you from optimizing for that =
case.

BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some =
controversy about whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide =
labels, but that is not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide =
labels does not require a change in the data plane =
architecture.

------=_NextPart_000_0A86_01D0C63C.BDBECD40--


From nobody Fri Jul 24 11:25:22 2015
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References: <55AD19F2.1010206@cisco.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73A21@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD2DAD.4060908@juniper.net> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73F3A@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD416D.2020306@juniper.net>  <55B15C59.5040105@juniper.net>  <55B267F6.80106@juniper.net>  <0a8501d0c634$5bfa6540$13ef2fc0$@olddog.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 20:25:16 +0200
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Message-ID: 
From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Adrian Farrel 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb03a922ed36c051ba3201b
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Adrian,

No one in this thread is saying that 3031 is wrong. All we are saying is
that it is incomplete.

As to your objects for the domain wide/global label case I only need two:

LABEL_VALUE
BINDED_IP_ADDRESS

I do not need IN_INTERFACE .. in fact as I am sure you know per interface
label space was practically never implemented. Even where it is very needed
implementations  use well known trick around it (example: for inter-as
option B on ASBRs or CSC).

As far as OUT_INTERFACE I would also leave it to FIB recursive resolution
to dynamically set it based on the BGP/IGP information.

So is this still MPLS per 3031 ? I am actually not that sure anymore.

Maybe it would be cleaner to call this MPLSv2 and document it in its own
RFC?

Then of course question will come why not just use remote next hop
attribute and encapsulate with IP. Well there is class of switches which do
brilliant L2 and L2.5 but not L3. I am not sure if cost of high speed
ports, very competitive power consumption, great cooling characteristics
would be a sufficient of the market for this new work - but I do not think
this is us here in IETF to decide that.

Best,
r.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Adrian Farrel  wrote:

> Robert,
>
> You want to specify the interface between control plane and data plane?
>
> That's OK (although it may have been done once or twice before).
>
> And if you want to specify the interface between the management plane and
> the data plane, that is also OK (although it has been done before as well).
>
>
>
> If you want to specify that for a packet with incoming label the operation
> is NO-SWAP, that's OK.
>
> But note that your data model (to be generic) is going to need to also
> support SWAP.
>
> Thus, you will have objects...
>
> IN-INTERFACE (ifid)
>
> IN-LABEL (label)
>
> OPERATION {POP, PUSH, SWAP, NO-SWAP}
>
> OUT-INTERFACE (ifid)
>
> OUT-LABEL (label)
>
>
>
> Setting OPERATION to NO-SWAP saves you from setting OUT-LABEL, but doesn't
> save you from needing the object in your data model. So it is a trade in
> the design of the data model and either approach is fine.
>
>
>
> You can see a similar model in the LSR MIB module (3813 IIRC) and in the
> olde ATM MIB modules.
>
>
>
> None of the above has the slightest to do with 3031 being right or wrong.
>
>
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
> *Sent:* 24 July 2015 17:55
> *To:* Eric Rosen
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much
> does it really save?
>
>
>
> Eric,
>
> This discussion to me is not related to data plane.
>
> I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to pass label
> values to date plane.
>
> Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send single label
> or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given architecture
> does not have it seems like no-op to me.
>
> Best,
> R.
>
> On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"  wrote:
>
> On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
> Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
> "outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
> routing
>
>
> I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all
> routers".  A given router only needs to implement the functionality that it
> needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.
>
> However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming"
> and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of a
> packet is always different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, due
> to the need to modify the TTL and checksum fields.
>
> In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be
> different than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use of
> the source routing option can result in there being a difference between
> the incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address
> field.
>
> Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source
> and destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing
> source and destination address fields.  If you want to optimize for tunnel
> stitching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane
> it looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.
>
> Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these
> functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  Similarly, if you think that
> the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform will
> have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label stack except
> for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optimizing for that
> case.
>
> BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about
> whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is
> not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require
> a change in the data plane architecture.
>

--047d7bb03a922ed36c051ba3201b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Adrian,

No one in this thread is saying that 3031 is wrong. A=
ll we are saying is that it is incomplete.=C2=A0
As to your objects for the domain wide/global la=
bel case I only need two:

LABEL_VALUE
BINDED_IP_ADDRESS

I do not need IN_INTERFACE .. in fact=
 as I am sure you know per interface label space was practically never impl=
emented. Even where it is very needed implementations =C2=A0use well known =
trick around it (example: for inter-as option B on ASBRs or CSC).

As far as OUT_INTERFACE I would=
 also leave it to FIB recursive resolution to dynamically set it based on t=
he BGP/IGP information.

So is this still MPLS per 3031 ? I am actually not that sure anymore.=C2=
=A0

Maybe it would be =
cleaner to call this MPLSv2 and document it in its own RFC?=C2=A0

Then of course question will co=
me why not just use remote next hop attribute and encapsulate with IP. Well=
 there is class of switches which do brilliant L2 and L2.5 but not L3. I am=
 not sure if cost of high speed ports, very competitive power consumption, =
great cooling characteristics would be a sufficient of the market for this =
new work - but I do not think this is us here in IETF to decide that.=C2=A0=


Best,
r.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Adrian =
Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
Robert, <=
/p>
You want to specify th=
e interface between control plane and data plane?
<=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">That's OK (although it=
 may have been done once or twice before).
And if you want to specify the in=
terface between the management plane and the data plane, that is also OK (a=
lthough it has been done before as well).
=C2=A0
If you want to specify that=
 for a packet with incoming label the operation is NO-SWAP, that's OK.<=
u>
B=
ut note that your data model (to be generic) is going to need to also suppo=
rt SWAP.
Thus, you will have objects...
IN-INTERFACE (ifid)
IN-LABEL (label)
OP=
ERATION {POP, PUSH, SWAP, NO-SWAP} 
OUT-INTERFACE (ifid)
OUT-LABEL (label)=

=
=C2=A0
Setting OPERATION to NO-SWAP saves you from setting OUT-LABEL, but doesn=
't save you from needing the object in your data model. So it is a trad=
e in the design of the data model and either approach is fine. 
=C2=
=A0
You =
can see a similar model in the LSR MIB module (3813 IIRC) and in the olde A=
TM MIB modules.
=C2=A0
None of the above has the slightest to do with 3031 b=
eing right or wrong.
=C2=A0
<=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1f497d">Adrian
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f Robert Raszuk
Sent: 24 July 2015 17:55
To: Eric R=
osen
Cc: mpls@=
ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls=
-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
=C2=A0
Eric,
This discussion to me is =
not related to data plane.
I look at it from control pl=
ane perspective which needs to pass label values to date plane.
Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send single=
 label or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given archi=
tecture does not have it seems like no-op to me.
Best,<=
br>R.
On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM,=
 "Eric C Rosen" <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:
On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
Going by your logic we would have a notion of "inco=
ming IP address" and
"outgoing IP address" in all routers=
 in the world doing basic non NAT
routing

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a n=
otion ... in all routers".=C2=A0 A given router only needs to implemen=
t the functionality that it needs to provide to those who are going to depl=
oy it.

However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between =
"incoming" and "outgoing" even in the case of "pur=
e" IP.=C2=A0 The incoming IP header of a packet is always different th=
an the outgoing IP header of that packet, due to the need to modify the TTL=
 and checksum fields.

In addition, as you point out, the incoming so=
urce address field may be different than the outgoing source address field,=
 due to NAT.=C2=A0 And use of the source routing option can result in there=
 being a difference between the incoming destination address field and the =
outgoing destination address field.

Another interesting case is tunn=
el stitching, where the incoming source and destination address fields may =
both be different than the outgoing source and destination address fields.=
=C2=A0 If you want to optimize for tunnel stitching, you precompute the rew=
rite string, and to the forwarding plane it looks like an ordinary case of =
forwarding a packet.

Of course, if your platform doesn't need to=
 perform any of these functions, it doesn't have to implement them.=C2=
=A0 Similarly, if you think that the most common operation (or even the onl=
y operation) your platform will have to perform on an MPLS packet is "=
don't modify the label stack except for the TTL of the top entry",=
 nothing stops you from optimizing for that case.

BTW, I understand =
perfectly well that there is some controversy about whether it is or is not=
 a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is not a data plane issue,=
 and the use of domain-wide labels does not require a change in the data pl=
ane architecture.



--047d7bb03a922ed36c051ba3201b--


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References: <55AD19F2.1010206@cisco.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73A21@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD2DAD.4060908@juniper.net> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73F3A@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD416D.2020306@juniper.net>  <55B15C59.5040105@juniper.net>  <55B267F6.80106@juniper.net> 
From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 22:03:29 +0200
Message-ID: 
To: Robert Raszuk 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e010d868c9463cf051ba480be
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Robert,

You're free to implement your switch as you see fit. If your switch sees
identical in and out labels being provisioned (by whatever means), then you
are free to store that in an internal FIB/LIB as NOSWAP, and your data
plane will be optimized. The nice thing is that externally, your switch
(and controller, or control plane) will conform to existing MPLS specs, and
interoperate with existing equipment. This will give your customers a way
to gracefully migrate from the old switches to new ones without requiring a
fork lift upgrade, coordinating both the data and control planes.

Cheers,
Andy

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Robert Raszuk  wrote:

> Eric,
>
> This discussion to me is not related to data plane.
>
> I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to pass label
> values to date plane.
>
> Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send single label
> or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given architecture
> does not have it seems like no-op to me.
>
> Best,
> R.
> On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"  wrote:
>
>> On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>
>>> Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
>>> "outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
>>> routing
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all
>> routers".  A given router only needs to implement the functionality that it
>> needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.
>>
>> However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming"
>> and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of a
>> packet is always different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, due
>> to the need to modify the TTL and checksum fields.
>>
>> In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be
>> different than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use of
>> the source routing option can result in there being a difference between
>> the incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address
>> field.
>>
>> Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source
>> and destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing
>> source and destination address fields.  If you want to optimize for tunnel
>> stitching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane
>> it looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.
>>
>> Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these
>> functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  Similarly, if you think that
>> the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform will
>> have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label stack except
>> for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optimizing for that
>> case.
>>
>> BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about
>> whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is
>> not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require
>> a change in the data plane architecture.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

--089e010d868c9463cf051ba480be
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Robert,

You're free to implement yo=
ur switch as you see fit. If your switch sees identical in and out labels b=
eing provisioned (by whatever means), then you are free to store that in an=
 internal FIB/LIB as NOSWAP, and your data plane will be optimized. The nic=
e thing is that externally, your switch (and controller, or control plane) =
will conform to existing MPLS specs, and interoperate with existing equipme=
nt. This will give your customers a way to gracefully migrate from the old =
switches to new ones without requiring a fork lift upgrade, coordinating bo=
th the data and control planes.

Cheers,
=
Andy

O=
n Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Eric,


This discussion to me is not related to data plane.


I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to p=
ass label values to date plane.


Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send =
single label or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given=
 architecture does not have it seems like no-op to me.


Best,

R.


On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"=
; <erosen@junipe=
r.net> wrote:
On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:



Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address&quo=
t; and

"outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non=
 NAT

routing





I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in a=
ll routers".=C2=A0 A given router only needs to implement the function=
ality that it needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.



However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming=
" and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.=C2=
=A0 The incoming IP header of a packet is always different than the outgoin=
g IP header of that packet, due to the need to modify the TTL and checksum =
fields.



In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be dif=
ferent than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.=C2=A0 And use of=
 the source routing option can result in there being a difference between t=
he incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address =
field.



Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source and=
 destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing source =
and destination address fields.=C2=A0 If you want to optimize for tunnel st=
itching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane it =
looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.



Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these functi=
ons, it doesn't have to implement them.=C2=A0 Similarly, if you think t=
hat the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform wi=
ll have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label st=
ack except for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optim=
izing for that case.



BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about wheth=
er it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is not a=
 data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require a cha=
nge in the data plane architecture.





_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





--089e010d868c9463cf051ba480be--


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References: <55AD19F2.1010206@cisco.com> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73A21@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD2DAD.4060908@juniper.net> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831F73F3A@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <55AD416D.2020306@juniper.net>  <55B15C59.5040105@juniper.net>  <55B267F6.80106@juniper.net>  
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 22:21:12 +0200
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Message-ID: 
From: Robert Raszuk 
To: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c07d4c1637d051ba4be1e
Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--f46d043c07d4c1637d051ba4be1e
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Andy,

Let me make it very simple.

This discussion is not about how to build a LSR. This discussion is also
not about modyfing anything in the data plane as far as MPLS encapsulation
is concerned.

This thread is about amending 3031 with new primitive such that new control
planes would be able to be used in a straight forward way to program it.

Practical example:

Assume I have a HSDN model and want to set DC labels from controller to the
switch using mpls YANG I2RS channel - how would I do it ?

Please provide real YANG or YIN example where I can bind label 44 to
anycast address 1.1.1.44 where this address is a ghost loopback from my
MPLS WAN to DC44 gateways.

With that please do reference drafts used as a normative references for
provided encoding.

This is as simple as this :)

Best,
R.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:03 PM, Andrew G. Malis  wrote:

> Robert,
>
> You're free to implement your switch as you see fit. If your switch sees
> identical in and out labels being provisioned (by whatever means), then you
> are free to store that in an internal FIB/LIB as NOSWAP, and your data
> plane will be optimized. The nice thing is that externally, your switch
> (and controller, or control plane) will conform to existing MPLS specs, and
> interoperate with existing equipment. This will give your customers a way
> to gracefully migrate from the old switches to new ones without requiring a
> fork lift upgrade, coordinating both the data and control planes.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Robert Raszuk  wrote:
>
>> Eric,
>>
>> This discussion to me is not related to data plane.
>>
>> I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to pass label
>> values to date plane.
>>
>> Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send single label
>> or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given architecture
>> does not have it seems like no-op to me.
>>
>> Best,
>> R.
>> On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"  wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address" and
>>>> "outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non NAT
>>>> routing
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in all
>>> routers".  A given router only needs to implement the functionality that it
>>> needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.
>>>
>>> However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming"
>>> and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.  The incoming IP header of a
>>> packet is always different than the outgoing IP header of that packet, due
>>> to the need to modify the TTL and checksum fields.
>>>
>>> In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be
>>> different than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.  And use of
>>> the source routing option can result in there being a difference between
>>> the incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address
>>> field.
>>>
>>> Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source
>>> and destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing
>>> source and destination address fields.  If you want to optimize for tunnel
>>> stitching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane
>>> it looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.
>>>
>>> Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these
>>> functions, it doesn't have to implement them.  Similarly, if you think that
>>> the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform will
>>> have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label stack except
>>> for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optimizing for that
>>> case.
>>>
>>> BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about
>>> whether it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is
>>> not a data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require
>>> a change in the data plane architecture.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>

--f46d043c07d4c1637d051ba4be1e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Andy,

Let me make it very simple.=C2=A0

This discussion is not about how to build a=
 LSR. This discussion is also not about modyfing anything in the data plane=
 as far as MPLS encapsulation is concerned.=C2=A0
<=
br>
This thread is about amending 3031 with new pri=
mitive such that new control planes would be able to be used in a straight =
forward way to program it.=C2=A0

Practical example:

Assume I have a HSDN model and want to set DC labels from controll=
er to the switch using mpls YANG I2RS channel - how would I do it ?=C2=A0

Please provide real YAN=
G or YIN example where I can bind label 44 to anycast address 1.1.1.44 wher=
e this address is a ghost loopback from my MPLS WAN to DC44 gateways.
=


With that please do referen=
ce drafts used as a normative references for provided encoding.=C2=A0
=


This is as simple as this :=
)

Best,
R.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:03 PM, Andre=
w G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert,

You're free t=
o implement your switch as you see fit. If your switch sees identical in an=
d out labels being provisioned (by whatever means), then you are free to st=
ore that in an internal FIB/LIB as NOSWAP, and your data plane will be opti=
mized. The nice thing is that externally, your switch (and controller, or c=
ontrol plane) will conform to existing MPLS specs, and interoperate with ex=
isting equipment. This will give your customers a way to gracefully migrate=
 from the old switches to new ones without requiring a fork lift upgrade, c=
oordinating both the data and control planes.

Chee=
rs,
Andy

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Robert=
 Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Eric,


This discussion to me is not related to data plane.


I look at it from control plane perspective which needs to p=
ass label values to date plane.


Creating non standard optimised APIs or YANG models to send =
single label or artificially send identical labels an in and out when given=
 architecture does not have it seems like no-op to me.


Best,

R.


On Jul 24, 2015 6:29 PM, "Eric C Rosen"=
; <erosen@junipe=
r.net> wrote:
On 7/23/2015 5:31 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:



Going by your logic we would have a notion of "incoming IP address&quo=
t; and

"outgoing IP address" in all routers in the world doing basic non=
 NAT

routing





I'm not sure I understand what it means to "have a notion ... in a=
ll routers".=C2=A0 A given router only needs to implement the function=
ality that it needs to provide to those who are going to deploy it.



However, certainly there is a distinction to be made between "incoming=
" and "outgoing" even in the case of "pure" IP.=C2=
=A0 The incoming IP header of a packet is always different than the outgoin=
g IP header of that packet, due to the need to modify the TTL and checksum =
fields.



In addition, as you point out, the incoming source address field may be dif=
ferent than the outgoing source address field, due to NAT.=C2=A0 And use of=
 the source routing option can result in there being a difference between t=
he incoming destination address field and the outgoing destination address =
field.



Another interesting case is tunnel stitching, where the incoming source and=
 destination address fields may both be different than the outgoing source =
and destination address fields.=C2=A0 If you want to optimize for tunnel st=
itching, you precompute the rewrite string, and to the forwarding plane it =
looks like an ordinary case of forwarding a packet.



Of course, if your platform doesn't need to perform any of these functi=
ons, it doesn't have to implement them.=C2=A0 Similarly, if you think t=
hat the most common operation (or even the only operation) your platform wi=
ll have to perform on an MPLS packet is "don't modify the label st=
ack except for the TTL of the top entry", nothing stops you from optim=
izing for that case.



BTW, I understand perfectly well that there is some controversy about wheth=
er it is or is not a good idea to use domain-wide labels, but that is not a=
 data plane issue, and the use of domain-wide labels does not require a cha=
nge in the data plane architecture.





______________________________=
_________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls








--f46d043c07d4c1637d051ba4be1e--


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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
Thread-Index: AQHQxIDNlSUgFnCczU6LeKuieu+WYZ3rwPgA
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Support,=20

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar





-----Original Message-----
From: mpls  on behalf of "John G.Scudder"

Reply-To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 9:17 AM
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: [mpls] working group adoption call for
draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop

>Dear WG,
>
>As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been
>requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please
>reply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to
>whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially
>encouraged to comment.
>
>In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on
>concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
>Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if
>so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list
>for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the
>document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when
>submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the
>active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the
>full list.
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Bruno and John
>
>P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:00:16 +0200
From: Loa Andersson 
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To: Eric C Rosen , Lizhenbin ,  "mpls@ietf.org" , Andrew Qu ,  Alexander Vainshtein , Shahram Davari , Robert Raszuk 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBkcmFmdC1mYW5nLW1wbHMtbGFiZWwtZm9yd2Fy?= =?utf-8?q?ding-no-swap_-_how_much_does_it_really_save=3F?=
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Folks,

On 2015-07-24 17:53, Eric C Rosen wrote:
> On 7/24/2015 4:40 AM, Lizhenbin wrote:
>> In fact, according to implementation, the SWAP can be seen as POP a
>> label, then PUSH a label.
>
> Certainly the architecture could have been written this way.  But it
> wasn't ;-)  It was written in such a way as to emphasize the difference
> between operations that change the size of the label stack and
> operations that do not.

In addition the intention of a pop (in most cases) is to make the next
label in the stack available to take decisions on, a swap does not do
this.

/Loa
>
> These concepts do not necessarily show up at all in the forwarding
> logic.  All the forwarding plane has to know is what the rewrite string
> is, where to put it, and how to adjust any TTL and/or checksum fields
> that might be in it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


From nobody Sat Jul 25 01:05:35 2015
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Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:05:24 +0200
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: [mpls] question to the authors of draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap
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Authors,

In the discussion on the mailing list it has been alleged that the
no-swap operation proposed in the draft will not decrement the TTL
and not look at the TC field, is that the intent of the authors?

/Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: Stewart Bryant 
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To: Andrew Qu , Alexander Vainshtein , Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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On 24/07/2015 09:06, Andrew Qu wrote:
>
> Hi Sasha,
>
> My comments in lines…
>
> *From:*mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexander 
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 7:26 AM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how 
> much does it really save?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Please note that CONTINUE in SPRING is:
>
> 1. A DP-agnostic primitive
>
> 2. *Implemented* as SWAP instruction with MPLS DP.
>
> [Andrew] You are contradicting with 1) and 2).
>
What Sasha says is correct
>
> With “CONTINUE” defined in SR draft,  for NEW ASIC to be designed,
>
> Why should I still use “SWAP” to achieve it?
>
.. because you need to be backwards compatible with
the deployed equipment and deployed networks.

If that is not a requirement in your world, then I suggest
that you get a new ethertype and call it MPLS2

- Stewart

--------------050305090904020700040601
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On 24/07/2015 09:06, Andrew Qu wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      

        
Hi
            Sasha,

        
 

        
My comments in lines…

        
 

        
 

        
 

        

          

            
From:
                mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
                On Behalf Of Alexander Vainshtein

                Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 7:26 AM

                To: Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari

                Cc: mpls@ietf.org

                Subject: Re: [mpls]
                draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does
                it really save?

          

        

        
 

        
Hi all,

        
Please note that CONTINUE in SPRING
            is:

        
1. A DP-agnostic primitive

        
2. *Implemented* as SWAP
            instruction with MPLS DP.

        
 

        
[Andrew] 
            You are contradicting with 1) and 2).

      

    

    What Sasha says is correct

    

      

        

        
With
            “CONTINUE” defined in SR draft,  for NEW ASIC to be
            designed,

        
Why
            should I still use “SWAP” to achieve it? 

      

    

    .. because you need to be backwards compatible with

    the deployed equipment and deployed networks.

    

    If that is not a requirement in your world, then I suggest 

    that you get a new ethertype and call it MPLS2

    

    - Stewart

  


--------------050305090904020700040601--


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On 7/24/2015 4:21 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Assume I have a HSDN model and want to set DC labels from controller to
> the switch using mpls YANG I2RS channel - how would I do it ?

Robert,

Perhaps you could take that question to whichever WG is doing the Yang 
model in question.

You seem to be speculating that a Yang model with the properties you'd 
like to see would be rejected as a standard, due to some incompatibility 
with RFC3031.

I'd suggest that you work to get the Yang model the way you think it 
should be.  If it is later claimed by some WG or AD that the model 
cannot be standardized because it is incompatible with RFC3031, the MPLS 
WG can evaluate the specifics of that claim, and determine whether it 
needs to take any action.

Eric


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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 20:54:48 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk 
To: Eric C Rosen 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Eric,

Just FYI I have already started last week to review and discuss with
openconfig team this topic. So Thank You for advice but it came a bit too
late :)

As to the core of the issue .. looking strictly technical I am really not
clear why there is so much resistance to add NO_SWAP/CONTINUE primitive to
3031bis .... would it break anything ?

Cheers,
R.


On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Eric C Rosen  wrote:

> On 7/24/2015 4:21 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
>> Assume I have a HSDN model and want to set DC labels from controller to
>> the switch using mpls YANG I2RS channel - how would I do it ?
>>
>
> Robert,
>
> Perhaps you could take that question to whichever WG is doing the Yang
> model in question.
>
> You seem to be speculating that a Yang model with the properties you'd
> like to see would be rejected as a standard, due to some incompatibility
> with RFC3031.
>
> I'd suggest that you work to get the Yang model the way you think it
> should be.  If it is later claimed by some WG or AD that the model cannot
> be standardized because it is incompatible with RFC3031, the MPLS WG can
> evaluate the specifics of that claim, and determine whether it needs to
> take any action.
>
> Eric
>
>

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From: Andrew Qu 
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From nobody Tue Jul 28 07:57:53 2015
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From: Andrew Qu 
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Alexander Vainshtein , Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Stewart,

Agreed that SWAP must be kept because MPLS fundamentals can't be broken=2E
And I agreed that _if_ there is NO such global label space idea,  no-swap =
is
optimization of swap as well=2E=20

However I don't agree no-swap become an optimization in terms of network
Behavior when global label idea become a needed thing=2E


When global Label introduced, then no_swap is the conceptually right thing =
for the transition [even
Local implementation can use swap to achieve, again, per previous =
conversation,
the popular wisdom, which I agreed as well,  is that this is local =
implementation, we should
not get involved, so we must define no-swap as the new primitive at RFC =
level]


So the question really boils down to that do we need global label?

I believe that is the key thing here=2E  May be we can put swap/no-swap =
aside for the moment=2E

Thanks,

Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco=2Ecom]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:03 AM
To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

> Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break=20
> backward capability=2E
>
Andrew

Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces=2E
(there is much empirical evidence to support this position)

So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices you =
cannot be sure that you can build an LSP=2E

A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap=2E

Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization=2E

- Stewart


************* Email Confidentiality Notice ********************
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From: Gregory Mirsky 
To: "Andrew G. Malis" , Stewart Bryant 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
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Thread-Topic: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Hi,

My name is Sasha Vainshtein, and  I have been asked to perform the QA revie=
w of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing=
-ldp-interop/.



Due to health problems I have been very late (but, hopefully, not too late)=
 with this review, and here it is.



Does the draft solves a real problem? From my POV, definitely yes.

          1.         The problem stems from the following combination of fa=
cts fact that:

a.       LDP distributes labels for FECs represented by IP prefixes (among =
other things).

b.      LDP-based MPLS network are very widely deployed

c.       SR operating over the MPLS DP allocates labels for SIDs that can r=
epresent IP prefixes (again, among other things)

d.      As a consequence, LDP and SR may effectively map the same IP prefix=
 to different labels.

          2.         As SR using the MPLS DP is gaining acceptance in the i=
ndustry, the following deployment scenarios look as realistic to me:

a.       Coexistence  between LDP-based and SR-based control planes in the =
same network

b.      Partial deployment of SR in some sub-domains of a network combined =
with the operators' need to use the benefits of SR where it is already depl=
oyed

c.       Gradual transition of services  (especially L2 and L3VPN) tunnelle=
d over LDP-created LSPs to LSPs set up using SR (and, possibly, vice versa)



Is the draft a good enough start for a WG document? From my POV, yes.

1         The draft covers multiple (if not all) realistic use cases for co=
existence of LDP-based and SR-based control planes and provides  what looks=
 to me as reasonable solutions for these scenarios.

2         At the same I would think that additional work is required to com=
plete the work.



Specific issues with the current draft:

1         Editorial: SR-related abbreviations (e.g., SRGB, SID etc.) are us=
ed without expansion at the first use, and there is no "Abbreviation" secti=
on in the draft.

2         Process/Editorial: The draft currently lists 12 authors on its ti=
tle page exceeding the recommended RFC Editor maximum of 5 authors.

          3.         Technical: The draft does not analyse the use case  of=
 coexistence between SR and LDP with enabled extension for multi-area LSPs =
as per RFC 5283=
. I think that this use case deserves special consideration in the draft be=
cause:

a.       It mentions the use case of seamless MPLS and refers to the (expir=
ed) Seamless MPLS Architecture draft

b.       The seamless MPLS Architecture draft, in its turn, explicitly refe=
rs to RFC 5283 in Section 5.1.1 to facilitate binding of labels received vi=
a the DoD LDP session while only default route is configured in the RIB of =
the access node in the seamless MPLS architecture

c.       It is possible that this use case would not add anything to the dr=
aft - but I would prefer to see it in the document with the appropriate exp=
lanation

          4.         Technical: Section 8 "Manageability Considerations" is=
 currently left empty. When this section is written, I would expect at leas=
t the following:

a.       Some level of detail regarding local  policies defining whether LD=
P-created or SR-created LSPs should be used etc.

b.      Discussion of using LSP Ping for LSPs that are produced by stitchin=
g an LDP segment with an SR one.

c.       Alternatively, it is possible to move this section to a separate d=
edicated draft

          5.         Technical: I think more information should be provided=
 in Section 5 to explain operational aspects of SR-assisted LDP FR:

a.       In Section 5.1 I would expect the draft to explain that:

                                                               i.      Node=
 D is selected as the RLFA using the same logic  that is defined for select=
ing RLFA in RFC 7490

                                                             ii.      The "=
bypass LSP" is set up by the SR CP automatically without any need for manag=
ement intervention

                                                            iii.      I wou=
ld like to understand why dynamically set up Targeted LDP sessions are an o=
perational concern. Such sessions appear also when BGP-based auto-discovery=
 for L2VPN is used, and, according to the analysis in RFC 7490, the scalabi=
lity problems associated with these sessions look as negligible.

b.      In Section 5.2 I would expect the draft to explain that:

                                                               i.      The =
resulting solution is similar to using a bypass LSP to a manually selected =
RLFA that is set up by RSVP-TE (the difference is that a Targeted LDP sessi=
on to such an RLFA would be still needed)

                                                             ii.      Set u=
p of the  "traffic-engineered bypass LSP" by the SR CP is triggered by an a=
ppropriate management operation

                                                            iii.      What =
information should be provided by the Management Plane for computing the RL=
FA and the traffic-engineered  bypass LSP? Should it be similar to configur=
ation parameters used with RSVP-TE?

                                                           iv.      Which k=
ind of logic should be responsible for computing the RLFA and the path to b=
e taken by the engineered bypass LSP: should it be similar to the CSPF used=
 with RSVP-TE?

                                                             v.      How th=
e traffic-engineered bypass LSP hat is set up by the SR CP would react to a=
dditional changes in the network topology (the behaviour of the bypass LSP =
that is set by RSVP-TE in these situations is well known).



Neither of the issues listed above should be considered as preventing adopt=
ion of the draft as a WG document IMO. Actually I think that resolving thes=
e issues in the context of a WG document would be more effective.



Hopefully these notes will be useful.



Regards,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com



From: Jonathan Hardwick [mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:46 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Alvaro Retana (aretana); Jo=
n Hudson
Subject: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-rou=
ting-ldp-interop



Hi Sasha



Please would you be the routing directorate QA reviewer for draft-filsfils-=
spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop?

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-=
interop/



This initial review has been prompted by the spring WG chairs in parallel w=
ith a call for WG adoption.  As such, this document qualifies for "initial =
QA review".  Please could you provide your initial comments in the next 3 w=
eeks?  As per the QA process, we would also like you to stay with the docum=
ent and review it again when it goes to WG last call.



The following web page contains a briefing on the QA process, and guidance =
for the QA reviewer.

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDirDocQa



Please copy your comments to the spring and rtgdir mailing lists.



Please let me know whether you can do it, or not.



Many thanks

Jon





--_000_DB3PR03MB0780A7F30E35B8D04B020BE79D8D0DB3PR03MB0780eurp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











Hi,


My na=
me is Sasha Vainshtein, and  I have been asked to perform the QA revie=
w of
https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop=
/.


 =
;


Due t=
o health problems I have been very late (but, hopefully, not too late) with=
 this review, and here it is.


 =
;


Do=
es the draft solves a real problem?
 From my POV, definitely yes. 



   =
;      
1.  =
;       The problem stem=
s from the following combination of
 facts fact that:



a.  &nb=
sp;   
LDP distributes labels for FECs represented by IP prefixes (among oth=
er things).



b.  &nb=
sp;  
LDP-based MPLS network are very widely deployed



c.  &nb=
sp;   
SR operating over the MPLS DP allocates labels for SIDs that can repr=
esent IP prefixes (again, among other things)



d.  &nb=
sp;  
As a consequence, LDP and SR may effectively map the same IP prefix t=
o different labels.



   =
;      
2.  =
;       As SR using the =
MPLS DP is gaining acceptance in the
 industry, the following deployment scenarios look as realistic to me:



a.  &nb=
sp;   
Coexistence  between LDP-based and SR-based contr=
ol planes in the same network



b.  &nb=
sp;  
Partial deployment of SR in some sub-domains of a netw=
ork combined with the operators’ need to use the benefits
 of SR where it is already deployed



c.  &nb=
sp;   
Gradual transition of services  (especially L2 an=
d L3VPN) tunnelled over LDP-created LSPs to LSPs set up using SR
 (and, possibly, vice versa)


 


I=
s the draft a good enough start for=
 a WG
 document? From my POV, =
yes.



1  &nbs=
p;     
The draft covers multiple (if not all) realistic use c=
ases for coexistence of LDP-based and SR-based control planes
 and provides  what looks to me as reasonable solutions for these scen=
arios.



2  &nbs=
p;     
At the same I would think that additional work is requ=
ired to complete the work.


<=
o:p> 


Sp=
ecific issues with the current draft:



1  &nbs=
p;     
Editorial:
 SR-related abbreviations (e.g., SRGB, SID etc.) are used without expansion=
 at the first use, and there is no “Abbreviation” section in th=
e draft.




2  &nbs=
p;     
Process/Editorial:
 The draft currently lists 12 authors on its title page exceeding the recom=
mended RFC Editor maximum of 5 authors.




&n=
bsp;        
3.  =
;       Technical:
 The draft does not analyse the use case  of coexistence between SR an=
d LDP with enabled extension for multi-area LSPs as per
RFC 5283. I think t=
hat this use case deserves special consideration in the draft
 because:



a.=
      
It mentions the use case of seamless MPLS and refers t=
o the (expired)

Seamless MPLS Architecture=
 draft




b.=
     
 The seamless MPLS Architecture draft, in its tur=
n, explicitly refers to RFC 5283 in Section 5.1.1 to facilitate
 binding of labels received via the DoD LDP session while only default rout=
e is configured in the RIB of the access node in the seamless MPLS architec=
ture



c.=
      
It is possible that this use case would not add anythi=
ng to the draft – but I would prefer to see it in the document
 with the appropriate explanation



&n=
bsp;        
4.  =
;       Technical:
 Section 8 “Manageability Considerations” is currently left emp=
ty. When this section is written, I would expect at least the following:



a.=
      
Some level of detail regarding local  policies de=
fining whether LDP-created or SR-created LSPs should be used etc.




b.=
     
Discussion of using LSP Ping for LSPs that are produce=
d by stitching an LDP segment with an SR one.




c.=
      
Alternatively, it is possible to move this section to =
a separate dedicated draft



&n=
bsp;        
5.  =
;       Technical:
I think more information=
 should be provided in Section 5 to explain operational aspects of SR-assis=
ted LDP FR:




a.=
      
In Section 5.1 I would expect the draft to explain tha=
t:



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;           
i.  =
;    Node D is selected as the RLFA usi=
ng the same logic  that
 is defined for selecting RLFA in RFC 7490



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;         
ii. &nbs=
p;    The “bypass LSP” is s=
et up by the SR CP automatically
 without any need for management intervention



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;        
iii. &nb=
sp;    I would like to understand why d=
ynamically set up Targeted
 LDP sessions are an operational concern. Such sessions appear also when BG=
P-based auto-discovery for L2VPN is used, and, according to the analysis in=
 RFC 7490, the scalability problems associated with these sessions look as =
negligible.



b.=
     
In Section 5.2 I would expect the draft to explain tha=
t:



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;           
i.  =
;    The resulting solution is similar =
to using a bypass LSP
 to a manually selected RLFA that is set up by RSVP-TE (the difference is t=
hat a Targeted LDP session to such an RLFA would be still needed)



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;         
ii. &nbs=
p;    Set up of the  “traffi=
c-engineered bypass LSP” by the
 SR CP is triggered by an appropriate management operation



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;        
iii. &nb=
sp;    What information should be provi=
ded by the Management
 Plane for computing the RLFA and the traffic-engineered  bypass LSP? =
Should it be similar to configuration parameters used with RSVP-TE?



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;       
iv. &nbs=
p;    Which kind of logic should be res=
ponsible for computing
 the RLFA and the path to be taken by the engineered bypass LSP: should it =
be similar to the CSPF used with RSVP-TE?



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;         
v.  =
;    How the traffic-engineered bypass =
LSP hat is set up by
 the SR CP would react to additional changes in the network topology (the b=
ehaviour of the bypass LSP that is set by RSVP-TE in these situations is we=
ll known).


<=
o:p> 


Neith=
er of the issues listed above should be considered as preventing adoption o=
f the draft as a WG document IMO. Actually I think that resolving
 these issues in the context of a WG document would be more effective.


&n=
bsp;


Hopef=
ully these notes will be useful.=



 =
;




Reg=
ards,


Sas=
ha


&nb=
sp;


Office: +972-3=
9266302


Cell:  &=
nbsp;   +972-549266302


Email:  =
 Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com




 






From: Jonathan Hardwick [mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswit=
ch.com]


Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:46 PM

To: Alexander Vainshtein

Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Alvaro Retana (areta=
na); Jon Hudson

Subject: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segm=
ent-routing-ldp-interop





 


Hi Sa=
sha


 =
;


Pleas=
e would you be the routing directorate QA reviewer for draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-segment-routing-ldp-interop?


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-segment-routing-ldp-interop/


 =
;


This =
initial review has been prompted by the spring WG chairs in parallel with a=
 call for WG adoption.  As such, this document qualifies for
 “initial QA review”.  Please could you provide your initi=
al comments in the next 3 weeks?  As per the QA process, we would also=
 like you to stay with the document and review it again when it goes to WG =
last call.


 =
;


The f=
ollowing web page contains a briefing on the QA process, and guidance for t=
he QA reviewer.


htt=
ps://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDirDocQa


 =
;


Pleas=
e copy your comments to the spring and rtgdir mailing lists.


 =
;


Pleas=
e let me know whether you can do it, or not.


 =
;


Many =
thanks


Jon


 =
;


 =
;






--_000_DB3PR03MB0780A7F30E35B8D04B020BE79D8D0DB3PR03MB0780eurp_--


From nobody Tue Jul 28 09:40:28 2015
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From: Shahram Davari 
To: Andrew Qu 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
Thread-Index: AQHQxdE8OwfTAAS3/0O9L44IGnUJ+p3quROAgAUiJgCAAEpHgIABDj8AgABBbwD//6dfbA==
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:40:21 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Andrew

Continue operation in segment routing and in HSDN is not global label. Glob=
al label means every router knows how to forward a global label. What is th=
e application for a global label and how does each router know how to forwa=
rd it?

Regards,
Shahram


> On Jul 28, 2015, at 7:58 AM, Andrew Qu  wrote:
>=20
> Hi Stewart,
>=20
> Agreed that SWAP must be kept because MPLS fundamentals can't be broken.
> And I agreed that _if_ there is NO such global label space idea,  no-swap=
 is
> optimization of swap as well.=20
>=20
> However I don't agree no-swap become an optimization in terms of network
> Behavior when global label idea become a needed thing.
>=20
>=20
> When global Label introduced, then no_swap is the conceptually right thin=
g for the transition [even
> Local implementation can use swap to achieve, again, per previous convers=
ation,
> the popular wisdom, which I agreed as well,  is that this is local implem=
entation, we should
> not get involved, so we must define no-swap as the new primitive at RFC l=
evel]
>=20
>=20
> So the question really boils down to that do we need global label?
>=20
> I believe that is the key thing here.  May be we can put swap/no-swap asi=
de for the moment.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Andrew
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:03 AM
> To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much d=
oes it really save?
>=20
>> Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break=20
>> backward capability.
> Andrew
>=20
> Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces.
> (there is much empirical evidence to support this position)
>=20
> So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices you can=
not be sure that you can build an LSP.
>=20
> A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap.
>=20
> Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization.
>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
>=20
> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ********************
> The information contained in this e-mail message (including any=20
> attachments) may be confidential, proprietary, privileged, or otherwise
> exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. It is intended to be=20
> conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). Any use, dissemination,=20
> distribution, printing, retaining or copying of this e-mail (including it=
s=20
> attachments) by unintended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may=20
> be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, or beli=
eve=20
> that you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender=20
> immediately (by replying to this e-mail), delete any and all copies of=20
> this e-mail (including any attachments) from your system, and do not
> disclose the content of this e-mail to any other person. Thank you!
>=20


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From: Andrew Qu 
To: Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
Thread-Index: AQHQxdE8jUti3orAQEqCOvm3DZDbXZ3qQZhggAVnVgCAAAFBUIABV0UA///4lfCAAGWSgP//0Cyw
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Robert Raszuk 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Shahram,

This is a question that must be answered,  but could you please hold the =
question for now?

I just want to have one issue clarified before moving to another=2E

Do we agree that _IF_ global label becomes necessary,  no-swap as primitive=
 is necessary?

Understood that _IF_ will be next topic to follow=2E =20

Thanks,

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom=2Ecom]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:40 AM
To: Andrew Qu
Cc: stbryant@cisco=2Ecom; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; =
mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

Andrew

Continue operation in segment routing and in HSDN is not global label=2E =
Global label means every router knows how to forward a global label=2E What=
 is the application for a global label and how does each router know how to=
 forward it?

Regards,
Shahram


> On Jul 28, 2015, at 7:58 AM, Andrew Qu  =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Stewart,
>=20
> Agreed that SWAP must be kept because MPLS fundamentals can't be =
broken=2E
> And I agreed that _if_ there is NO such global label space idea, =20
> no-swap is optimization of swap as well=2E
>=20
> However I don't agree no-swap become an optimization in terms of=20
> network Behavior when global label idea become a needed thing=2E
>=20
>=20
> When global Label introduced, then no_swap is the conceptually right=20
> thing for the transition [even Local implementation can use swap to=20
> achieve, again, per previous conversation, the popular wisdom, which I=20
> agreed as well,  is that this is local implementation, we should not=20
> get involved, so we must define no-swap as the new primitive at RFC=20
> level]
>=20
>=20
> So the question really boils down to that do we need global label?
>=20
> I believe that is the key thing here=2E  May be we can put swap/no-swap =
aside for the moment=2E
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Andrew
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco=2Ecom]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:03 AM
> To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
>=20
>> Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break=20
>> backward capability=2E
> Andrew
>=20
> Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces=2E
> (there is much empirical evidence to support this position)
>=20
> So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices you =
cannot be sure that you can build an LSP=2E
>=20
> A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap=2E
>=20
> Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization=2E
>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
>=20
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Andrew,

> I just want to have one issue clarified before moving to another.
> 
> Do we agree that _IF_ global label becomes necessary,  no-swap as primitive is
> necessary?

No, not really.
A new primitive may be useful to describe what goes on in such a world, but it
is not necessary because we can already describe such a world.

But, underlying this is the question: what are these primitives? They are not
things you see on the wire; they are descriptions of what goes on inside a
router/switch. They don't need to be defined for standardisation.

The place that all of this might be useful is on an interface that is used to
program a device. If that is useful then go for it - write the data model or
interface spec for it. But I don't believe this has anything to do with 3031.

> Understood that _IF_ will be next topic to follow.

Appreciate separating the two questions although maybe you have the order wrong
:-)

Obviously, Stewart's words of warning about integrating with legacy devices
doing downstream label allocation must be considered. but that is a network
design issue.

Adrian


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From: Xuxiaohu 
To: Andrew Qu , "stbryant@cisco.com" , Alexander Vainshtein , Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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> So the question really boils down to that do we need global label?
>=20
> I believe that is the key thing here.  May be we can put swap/no-swap asi=
de for
> the moment.

Concur.

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> Thanks,
>=20
> Andrew
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:03 AM
> To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much d=
oes
> it really save?
>=20
> > Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break
> > backward capability.
> >
> Andrew
>=20
> Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces.
> (there is much empirical evidence to support this position)
>=20
> So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices you can=
not
> be sure that you can build an LSP.
>=20
> A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap.
>=20
> Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization.
>=20
> - Stewart
>=20
>=20
> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The
> information contained in this e-mail message (including any
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From: 
To: , , 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 09:21:00 +0200
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03
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Hi Greg,

I am fine with the changes.

Thomas

Von: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 24. Juli 2015 09:51
An: Beckhaus, Thomas; mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.i=
etf.org
Cc: rcallon@juniper.net; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; Jeff Tantsura; mach.chen@hua=
wei.com; Ilya@nobulus.com
Betreff: RE: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03

Hi Thomas,
would greatly appreciate if you kindly review proposed changes to address y=
our comments. I've attached diff and MS copy of what may be next version.

                Regards,
                                Greg


From: Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de [mailto=
:Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:03 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@too=
ls.ietf.org
Cc: rcallon@juniper.net; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; Gregory Mirsky; Jeff Tantsura; mach.chen@huawe=
i.com; Ilya@nobulus.com
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03

Hello,

I have been selected as reviewer of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky=
-mpls-bfd-directed-03.

I think the draft is coherent, technically sound and operational useful. It=
 extents the explicit path capability for the backward direction of _bidire=
ctional_ forwarding detection (BFD). The document is ready for WG adoption.

Some comments:

Section 1.1.1, Terminology:
I am not sure, whether the term _MPLS_ is really required in this section.

Section 3.1, "Case of MPLS Data Plane": Structure of sub-TLV specification.
The whole section describes, that three sub-TLV are specified for usage: "S=
tatic", "RSVP-TE" and "Segment Routing". For "Static" and "RSVP-TE", the dr=
aft refers to the according RFC (that's fine). But the structure of this se=
ction contains only a subsection for "Segment routing" and the reference to=
 the other sub-TLV is part of this subsection. I propose to add two additio=
nal subsections "Static" (3.1.x) and "RSVP-TE" (3.1.x) with the references =
and remove it from the subsection "Segment Routing" to be more coherent.

Section 3.1.2: "Segment Routing Tunnel Sub-TLV >
The section specifies the encoding of the SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the encodi=
ng of the label stack elements. I think it makes sense to describe the usag=
e of this information in the draft ("copy this information to the label sta=
ck"). Is the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases=
 on his local information or is the encoded label stack strict?

Section 3.3:
This section confused me. Maybe it should be considered to be rewritten (or=
 explained specifically to me).
Who is the _initiator_ in this case for the BFD reverse path scenario?

Section 3.4: "Return Codes"
The paragraph repeats the description text of the return code 2 times.  The=
 section specifies, that the egress LSR _MAY_ send back the return code. In=
 section 3.1.1, last paragraph, the behavior is specified, that the egress =
LSR may set up the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the=
 return code (are the MAYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD sessi=
on is set up - see also comment from Nobo?). This implies, that the egress =
LSR _MUST_ send the return code, when the reverse path is not known.

Section 4 "Use case scenario":
The "value N" and "value M" are confusing, because it uses the same vocabul=
ary as the nodes in the network example (capital letter). It could be calle=
d "foobar" if it is not for interest.

Regards.

Thomas


--_000_AAE428925197FE46A5F94ED6643478FEB35C125670HE111644EMEA1_
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Hi Greg,
 
I am fin=
e with the changes.
 
Thomas =

 
Von: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:grego=
ry.mirsky@ericsson.com] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 24. Juli 2015 09:51An: Beckhaus, Thomas; mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directe=
d@tools.ietf.org
Cc: rcallon@juniper.net; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; J=
eff Tantsura; mach.chen@huawei.com; Ilya@nobulus.com
Betreff: RE:=
 MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03
<=
/div>
 
<=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:#1F497D'>Hi Thomas,
would greatly appreciate if you kindly review proposed cha=
nges to address your comments. I’ve attached diff and MS copy of what=
 may be next version.
 
            =
;    Regards,
          =
;            &n=
bsp;         Greg=

 
 
From: Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de [mailto:Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de] 
<=
b>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:03 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org; draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed@tools.ietf.orgCc: rcallon@juniper.net=
; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; Gregory=
 Mirsky; Jeff Tantsura; mach.chen@h=
uawei.com; Ilya@nobulus.com
=
Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-mirsky-mpls-bfd-directed-03
&nbs=
p;
Hello,=

 
 
I think the draft is coherent, technically=
 sound and operational useful. It extents the explicit path capability for =
the backward direction of _bidirectional_ forwarding detection (BFD)=
. The document is ready for WG adoption.
 
Some comments:
 
=
Section 1.1.1, Terminology:
I am not sure, whether the term _MPLS_ is really =
required in this section.
 
Section 3.1, “Case of MPLS Data Plane”: Structure of sub-TLV s=
pecification.
Th=
e whole section describes, that three sub-TLV are specified for usage: R=
20;Static”, “RSVP-TE” and “Segment Routing”. =
For “Static” and “RSVP-TE”, the draft refers to the=
 according RFC (that’s fine). But the structure of this section conta=
ins only a subsection for “Segment routing” and the reference t=
o the other sub-TLV is part of this subsection. I propose to add two additi=
onal subsections “Static” (3.1.x) and “RSVP-TE” (3.=
1.x) with the references and remove it from the subsection ”Segment R=
outing” to be more coherent.
 
Section 3.1.2: “Segment Routing Tunnel Sub-TLV »=

The section spe=
cifies the encoding of the SR tunnel Sub-TLV with the encoding of the label=
 stack elements. I think it makes sense to describe the usage of this infor=
mation in the draft (“copy this information to the label stack”=
). Is the remote PE (initiator) allowed to add additional segments bases on=
 his local information or is the encoded label stack strict?
 
Section 3.3:
This section confused me. Maybe it should =
be considered to be rewritten (or explained specifically to me).=

Who is the _initiator_ in this case for the BFD reverse path scenario?
 
=

Section 3.4: “Return Codes”
The paragraph repeats th=
e description text of the return code 2 times.  The section specifies,=
 that the egress LSR _MAY_ send back the return code. In section 3.1=
.1, last paragraph, the behavior is specified, that the egress LSR may set =
up the BFD session or not, but in both cases, it sends back the return code=
 (are the MAYs are concatenated in the case, when the BFD session is set up=
 – see also comment from Nobo?). This implies, that the egress LSR _<=
i>MUST_ send the return code, when the reverse path is not known.<=
/o:p>
 
Section 4 “Use case scen=
ario”:
The=
 “value N” and “value M” are confusing, because it =
uses the same vocabulary as the nodes in the network example (capital lette=
r). It could be called “foobar” if it is not for interest.=

 <=
/span>
Regards.
 
Thomas
 
<=
/body>=

--_000_AAE428925197FE46A5F94ED6643478FEB35C125670HE111644EMEA1_--


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To: Andrew Qu , Shahram Davari 
From: Stewart Bryant 
Message-ID: <55B8CC8F.60303@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:52:31 +0100
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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On 28/07/2015 18:55, Andrew Qu wrote:
> Hi Shahram,
>
> This is a question that must be answered,  but could you please hold the question for now?
>
> I just want to have one issue clarified before moving to another.
>
> Do we agree that _IF_ global label becomes necessary,  no-swap as primitive is necessary?
No, the primitive is not *needed*.

Stewart
>
> Understood that _IF_ will be next topic to follow.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:40 AM
> To: Andrew Qu
> Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
>
> Andrew
>
> Continue operation in segment routing and in HSDN is not global label. Global label means every router knows how to forward a global label. What is the application for a global label and how does each router know how to forward it?
>
> Regards,
> Shahram
>
>
>> On Jul 28, 2015, at 7:58 AM, Andrew Qu  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stewart,
>>
>> Agreed that SWAP must be kept because MPLS fundamentals can't be broken.
>> And I agreed that _if_ there is NO such global label space idea,
>> no-swap is optimization of swap as well.
>>
>> However I don't agree no-swap become an optimization in terms of
>> network Behavior when global label idea become a needed thing.
>>
>>
>> When global Label introduced, then no_swap is the conceptually right
>> thing for the transition [even Local implementation can use swap to
>> achieve, again, per previous conversation, the popular wisdom, which I
>> agreed as well,  is that this is local implementation, we should not
>> get involved, so we must define no-swap as the new primitive at RFC
>> level]
>>
>>
>> So the question really boils down to that do we need global label?
>>
>> I believe that is the key thing here.  May be we can put swap/no-swap aside for the moment.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:03 AM
>> To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
>>
>>> Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break
>>> backward capability.
>> Andrew
>>
>> Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces.
>> (there is much empirical evidence to support this position)
>>
>> So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices you cannot be sure that you can build an LSP.
>>
>> A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap.
>>
>> Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization.
>>
>> - Stewart
>>
>>
>> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The
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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
To: "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Hi,
My previous message has been put on hold by the moderator of the SPRING WG =
as having too many recipients.
This is partially due to the draft having 12 authors - and  have tried to s=
end the review to each of them:).

I am now re-sending it with a shorter (but, hopefully, sufficient - I belie=
ve all the authors are on the SPRING mailing list anyway) list of recipient=
s and with one more issue I have found in the draft - highlighted.

Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

From: Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:37 PM
To: 'rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org'
Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Jon Hudson; 'Jonathan Hardw=
ick'; 'rtg-dir@ietf.org'; 'spring@ietf.org'; mpls@ietf.org; 'cfilsfil@cisco=
.com'; 'sprevidi@cisco.com'; 'bashandy@cisco.com'; 'stephane.litkowski@oran=
ge.com'; 'Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de'; 'igormilojevic@telekom.rs'; 'rob.sh=
akir@bt.com'; 'saku@ytti.fi'; 'wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com'; 'Jeff Ta=
ntsura (jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com)'; 'edward.crabbe@gmail.com'
Subject: RE: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment=
-routing-ldp-interop


Hi,

My name is Sasha Vainshtein, and  I have been asked to perform the QA revie=
w of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing=
-ldp-interop/.



Due to health problems I have been very late (but, hopefully, not too late)=
 with this review, and here it is.



Does the draft solves a real problem? From my POV, definitely yes.

          1.         The problem stems from the following combination of fa=
cts fact that:

a.       LDP distributes labels for FECs represented by IP prefixes (among =
other things).

b.      LDP-based MPLS network are very widely deployed

c.       SR operating over the MPLS DP allocates labels for SIDs that can r=
epresent IP prefixes (again, among other things)

d.      As a consequence, LDP and SR may effectively map the same IP prefix=
 to different labels.

          2.         As SR using the MPLS DP is gaining acceptance in the i=
ndustry, the following deployment scenarios look as realistic to me:

a.       Coexistence  between LDP-based and SR-based control planes in the =
same network

b.      Partial deployment of SR in some sub-domains of a network combined =
with the operators' need to use the benefits of SR where it is already depl=
oyed

c.       Gradual transition of services  (especially L2 and L3VPN) tunnelle=
d over LDP-created LSPs to LSPs set up using SR (and, possibly, vice versa)



Is the draft a good enough start for a WG document? From my POV, yes.

1         The draft covers multiple (if not all) realistic use cases for co=
existence of LDP-based and SR-based control planes and provides  what looks=
 to me as reasonable solutions for these scenarios.

2         At the same I would think that additional work is required to com=
plete the work.



Specific issues with the current draft:

1         Editorial: SR-related abbreviations (e.g., SRGB, SID etc.) are us=
ed without expansion at the first use, and there is no "Abbreviation" secti=
on in the draft.

2         Process/Editorial: The draft currently lists 12 authors on its ti=
tle page exceeding the recommended RFC Editor maximum of 5 authors.

          3.         Technical: The draft does not analyse the use case  of=
 coexistence between SR and LDP with enabled extension for multi-area LSPs =
as per RFC 5283=
. I think that this use case deserves special consideration in the draft be=
cause:

a.       It mentions the use case of seamless MPLS and refers to the (expir=
ed) Seamless MPLS Architecture draft

b.       The seamless MPLS Architecture draft, in its turn, explicitly refe=
rs to RFC 5283 in Section 5.1.1 to facilitate binding of labels received vi=
a the DoD LDP session while only default route is configured in the RIB of =
the access node in the seamless MPLS architecture

c.       It is possible that this use case would not add anything to the dr=
aft - but I would prefer to see it in the document with the appropriate exp=
lanation

          4.         Technical: Section 8 "Manageability Considerations" is=
 currently left empty. When this section is written, I would expect at leas=
t the following:

a.       Some level of detail regarding local  policies defining whether LD=
P-created or SR-created LSPs should be used etc.

b.      Discussion of using LSP Ping for LSPs that are produced by stitchin=
g an LDP segment with an SR one.

c.       Alternatively, it is possible to move this section to a separate d=
edicated draft

          5.         Technical: I think more information should be provided=
 in Section 5 to explain operational aspects of SR-assisted LDP FR:

a.       In Section 5.1 I would expect the draft to explain that:

                                                               i.      Node=
 D is selected as the RLFA using the same logic  that is defined for select=
ing RLFA in RFC 7490

                                                             ii.      The "=
bypass LSP" is set up by the SR CP automatically without any need for manag=
ement intervention

                                                            iii.      I wou=
ld like to understand why dynamically set up Targeted LDP sessions are an o=
perational concern. Such sessions appear also when BGP-based auto-discovery=
 for L2VPN is used, and, according to the analysis in RFC 7490, the scalabi=
lity problems associated with these sessions look as negligible.

b.      In Section 5.2 I would expect the draft to explain that:

                                                               i.      The =
resulting solution is similar to using a bypass LSP to a manually selected =
RLFA that is set up by RSVP-TE (the difference is that a Targeted LDP sessi=
on to such an RLFA would be still needed)

                                                             ii.      Set u=
p of the  "traffic-engineered bypass LSP" by the SR CP is triggered by an a=
ppropriate management operation

                                                            iii.      What =
information should be provided by the Management Plane for computing the RL=
FA and the traffic-engineered  bypass LSP? Should it be similar to configur=
ation parameters used with RSVP-TE?

                                                           iv.      Which k=
ind of logic should be responsible for computing the RLFA and the path to b=
e taken by the engineered bypass LSP: should it be similar to the CSPF used=
 with RSVP-TE?

                                                             v.      How th=
e traffic-engineered bypass LSP hat is set up by the SR CP would react to a=
dditional changes in the network topology (the behaviour of the bypass LSP =
that is set by RSVP-TE in these situations is well known)

c.       In both cases it is not clear how the backup label and NHOP are in=
stalled:

                                                               i.      In t=
he FRR with RLFA  as per RFC 7490 this is usually done by LDP that receives=
 the backup label as bound to the destination prefix FEC via the Targeted L=
DP session, retains it and decides to us it when a route to the destination=
 prefix using the LSP leading to the RLFA as its NHOP is installed in  the =
RIB as the best route to the destination prefix by IP FRR

                                                             ii.      This =
scheme definitely would not work if the Targeted LDP session to the selecte=
d RLFA is eliminated

                                                            iii.      From =
my POV more details are required here, and the critical question here is, o=
f course, when the scheme proposed in the draft requires any changes in LDP=
.





Neither of the issues listed above should be considered as preventing adopt=
ion of the draft as a WG document IMO. Actually I think that resolving thes=
e issues in the context of a WG document would be more effective.



Hopefully these notes will be useful.



Regards,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com



From: Jonathan Hardwick [mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:46 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@junipe=
r.net; Alvaro Retana (aretana); Jon Hudson
Subject: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-rou=
ting-ldp-interop



Hi Sasha



Please would you be the routing directorate QA reviewer for draft-filsfils-=
spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop?

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-=
interop/



This initial review has been prompted by the spring WG chairs in parallel w=
ith a call for WG adoption.  As such, this document qualifies for "initial =
QA review".  Please could you provide your initial comments in the next 3 w=
eeks?  As per the QA process, we would also like you to stay with the docum=
ent and review it again when it goes to WG last call.



The following web page contains a briefing on the QA process, and guidance =
for the QA reviewer.

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDirDocQa



Please copy your comments to the spring and rtgdir mailing lists.



Please let me know whether you can do it, or not.



Many thanks

Jon





--_000_DB3PR03MB0780CB9ACC0130DDBDAF32919D8C0DB3PR03MB0780eurp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











Hi,


My previous message has b=
een put on hold by the moderator of the SPRING WG as having too many recipi=
ents.


This is partially due to =
the draft having 12 authors – and  have tried to send the review=
 to each of themJ.


 <=
/p>

I am now re-sending it wi=
th a shorter (but, hopefully, sufficient – I believe all the authors =
are on the SPRING mailing list anyway) list of recipients and
with one more issue I have found in the draft – highlighted.


 <=
/p>



Regards,


Sasha

 <=
/p>

Office: +972-39266302=



Cell:   &n=
bsp;  +972-549266302


Email:   Alexan=
der.Vainshtein@ecitele.com




 <=
/p>





From: Alexande=
r Vainshtein


Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:37 PM

To: 'rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org'

Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Jon Hudson; 'Jonatha=
n Hardwick'; 'rtg-dir@ietf.org'; 'spring@ietf.org'; mpls@ietf.org; 'cfilsfi=
l@cisco.com'; 'sprevidi@cisco.com'; 'bashandy@cisco.com'; 'stephane.litkows=
ki@orange.com'; 'Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de';
 'igormilojevic@telekom.rs'; 'rob.shakir@bt.com'; 'saku@ytti.fi'; 'wim.hend=
erickx@alcatel-lucent.com'; 'Jeff Tantsura (jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com)'; '=
edward.crabbe@gmail.com'

Subject: RE: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-=
segment-routing-ldp-interop






 


Hi,


My na=
me is Sasha Vainshtein, and  I have been asked to perform the QA revie=
w of
https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop=
/.


 =
;


Due t=
o health problems I have been very late (but, hopefully, not too late) with=
 this review, and here it is.


 =
;


Do=
es the draft solves a real problem?
 From my POV, definitely yes. 



   =
;      
1.  =
;       The problem stem=
s from the following combination of
 facts fact that:



a.  &nb=
sp;   
LDP distributes labels for FECs represented by IP prefixes (among oth=
er things).



b.  &nb=
sp;  
LDP-based MPLS network are very widely deployed



c.  &nb=
sp;   
SR operating over the MPLS DP allocates labels for SIDs that can repr=
esent IP prefixes (again, among other things)



d.  &nb=
sp;  
As a consequence, LDP and SR may effectively map the same IP prefix t=
o different labels.



   =
;      
2.  =
;       As SR using the =
MPLS DP is gaining acceptance in the
 industry, the following deployment scenarios look as realistic to me:



a.  &nb=
sp;   
Coexistence  between LDP-based and SR-based contr=
ol planes in the same network



b.  &nb=
sp;  
Partial deployment of SR in some sub-domains of a netw=
ork combined with the operators’ need to use the benefits
 of SR where it is already deployed



c.  &nb=
sp;   
Gradual transition of services  (especially L2 an=
d L3VPN) tunnelled over LDP-created LSPs to LSPs set up using SR
 (and, possibly, vice versa)


 


I=
s the draft a good enough start for=
 a WG
 document? From my POV, =
yes.



1  &nbs=
p;     
The draft covers multiple (if not all) realistic use c=
ases for coexistence of LDP-based and SR-based control planes
 and provides  what looks to me as reasonable solutions for these scen=
arios.



2  &nbs=
p;     
At the same I would think that additional work is requ=
ired to complete the work.


<=
o:p> 


Sp=
ecific issues with the current draft:



1  &nbs=
p;     
Editorial:
 SR-related abbreviations (e.g., SRGB, SID etc.) are used without expansion=
 at the first use, and there is no “Abbreviation” section in th=
e draft.




2  &nbs=
p;     
Process/Editorial:
 The draft currently lists 12 authors on its title page exceeding the recom=
mended RFC Editor maximum of 5 authors.




&n=
bsp;        
3.  =
;       Technical:
 The draft does not analyse the use case  of coexistence between SR an=
d LDP with enabled extension for multi-area LSPs as per
RFC 5283. I think t=
hat this use case deserves special consideration in the draft
 because:



a.=
      
It mentions the use case of seamless MPLS and refers t=
o the (expired)

Seamless MPLS Architecture=
 draft




b.=
     
 The seamless MPLS Architecture draft, in its tur=
n, explicitly refers to RFC 5283 in Section 5.1.1 to facilitate
 binding of labels received via the DoD LDP session while only default rout=
e is configured in the RIB of the access node in the seamless MPLS architec=
ture



c.=
      
It is possible that this use case would not add anythi=
ng to the draft – but I would prefer to see it in the document
 with the appropriate explanation



&n=
bsp;        
4.  =
;       Technical:
 Section 8 “Manageability Considerations” is currently left emp=
ty. When this section is written, I would expect at least the following:



a.=
      
Some level of detail regarding local  policies de=
fining whether LDP-created or SR-created LSPs should be used etc.




b.=
     
Discussion of using LSP Ping for LSPs that are produce=
d by stitching an LDP segment with an SR one.




c.=
      
Alternatively, it is possible to move this section to =
a separate dedicated draft



&n=
bsp;        
5.  =
;       Technical:
I think more information=
 should be provided in Section 5 to explain operational aspects of SR-assis=
ted LDP FR:




a.=
      
In Section 5.1 I would expect the draft to explain tha=
t:



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;           
i.  =
;    Node D is selected as the RLFA usi=
ng the same logic  that
 is defined for selecting RLFA in RFC 7490



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;         
ii. &nbs=
p;    The “bypass LSP” is s=
et up by the SR CP automatically
 without any need for management intervention



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;        
iii. &nb=
sp;    I would like to understand why d=
ynamically set up Targeted
 LDP sessions are an operational concern. Such sessions appear also when BG=
P-based auto-discovery for L2VPN is used, and, according to the analysis in=
 RFC 7490, the scalability problems associated with these sessions look as =
negligible.



b.=
     
In Section 5.2 I would expect the draft to explain tha=
t:



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;           
i.  =
;    The resulting solution is similar =
to using a bypass LSP
 to a manually selected RLFA that is set up by RSVP-TE (the difference is t=
hat a Targeted LDP session to such an RLFA would be still needed)



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;         
ii. &nbs=
p;    Set up of the  “traffi=
c-engineered bypass LSP” by the
 SR CP is triggered by an appropriate management operation



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;        
iii. &nb=
sp;    What information should be provi=
ded by the Management
 Plane for computing the RLFA and the traffic-engineered  bypass LSP? =
Should it be similar to configuration parameters used with RSVP-TE?



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;       
iv. &nbs=
p;    Which kind of logic should be res=
ponsible for computing
 the RLFA and the path to be taken by the engineered bypass LSP: should it =
be similar to the CSPF used with RSVP-TE?



&n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;         
v.  =
;    How the traffic-engineered bypass =
LSP hat is set up by
 the SR CP would react to additional changes in the network topology (the b=
ehaviour of the bypass LSP that is set by RSVP-TE in these situations is we=
ll known)



c.     &=
nbsp;
In b=
oth cases it is not clear how the backup label and NHOP are
 installed:



     &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;      
i.  =
;    In the
 FRR with RLFA  as per RFC 7490 this is usually done by LDP that recei=
ves the backup label as bound to the destination prefix FEC via the Targete=
d LDP session, retains it and decides to us it when a route to the destinat=
ion prefix using the LSP leading to the
 RLFA as its NHOP is installed in  the RIB as the best route to the de=
stination prefix by IP FRR



     &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;    
ii. &nbs=
p;    <=
/span>This
 scheme definitely would not work if the Targeted LDP session to the select=
ed RLFA is eliminated



      =
            &nb=
sp;            =
            &nb=
sp;            =
   
iii. &nb=
sp;    From my
 POV more details are required here, and the critical question here is, of =
course, when the scheme proposed in the draft requires any changes in LDP.


 


<=
o:p> 


Neith=
er of the issues listed above should be considered as preventing adoption o=
f the draft as a WG document IMO. Actually I think that resolving
 these issues in the context of a WG document would be more effective.


&n=
bsp;


Hopef=
ully these notes will be useful.=



 =
;




Reg=
ards,


Sas=
ha


&nb=
sp;


Office: +972-3=
9266302


Cell:  &=
nbsp;   +972-549266302


Email:  
Alexander.Vainshtein@ec=
itele.com




 






From: Jonathan Hardwick [mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com]


Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:46 PM

To: Alexander Vainshtein

Cc: bruno.decraene@oran=
ge.com;
jgs@juniper.net; Alvaro Retana (aret=
ana); Jon Hudson

Subject: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segm=
ent-routing-ldp-interop





 


Hi Sa=
sha


 =
;


Pleas=
e would you be the routing directorate QA reviewer for draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-segment-routing-ldp-interop?


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-segment-routing-ldp-interop/


 =
;


This =
initial review has been prompted by the spring WG chairs in parallel with a=
 call for WG adoption.  As such, this document qualifies for
 “initial QA review”.  Please could you provide your initi=
al comments in the next 3 weeks?  As per the QA process, we would also=
 like you to stay with the document and review it again when it goes to WG =
last call.


 =
;


The f=
ollowing web page contains a briefing on the QA process, and guidance for t=
he QA reviewer.


htt=
ps://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDirDocQa


 =
;


Pleas=
e copy your comments to the spring and rtgdir mailing lists.


 =
;


Pleas=
e let me know whether you can do it, or not.


 =
;


Many =
thanks


Jon


 =
;


 =
;






--_000_DB3PR03MB0780CB9ACC0130DDBDAF32919D8C0DB3PR03MB0780eurp_--


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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" 
To: Alexander Vainshtein 
Thread-Topic: [spring] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
Thread-Index: AdDJU4rozHs9zgL9Q6awOhnek/vb5wApb99QAAw7GIA=
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Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Hi Sasha,

Many thanks for your review and comments. I'll go through them asap.


Thanks.
s.


On Jul 29, 2015, at 2:52 PM, Alexander Vainshtein  wrote:

> Hi,
> My previous message has been put on hold by the moderator of the SPRING W=
G as having too many recipients.
> This is partially due to the draft having 12 authors =96 and  have tried =
to send the review to each of themJ.
> =20
> I am now re-sending it with a shorter (but, hopefully, sufficient =96 I b=
elieve all the authors are on the SPRING mailing list anyway) list of recip=
ients andwith one more issue I have found in the draft =96 highlighted.
> =20
> Regards,
> Sasha
> =20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> =20
> From: Alexander Vainshtein=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:37 PM
> To: 'rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org'
> Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Jon Hudson; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'rtg-dir@ietf.org'; 'spring@ietf.org'; mpls@ietf.org; 'cfilsfil@cis=
co.com'; 'sprevidi@cisco.com'; 'bashandy@cisco.com'; 'stephane.litkowski@or=
ange.com'; 'Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de'; 'igormilojevic@telekom.rs'; 'rob.=
shakir@bt.com'; 'saku@ytti.fi'; 'wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com'; 'Jeff =
Tantsura (jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com)'; 'edward.crabbe@gmail.com'
> Subject: RE: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segme=
nt-routing-ldp-interop
> =20
> Hi,
> My name is Sasha Vainshtein, and  I have been asked to perform the QA rev=
iew of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routi=
ng-ldp-interop/.
> =20
> Due to health problems I have been very late (but, hopefully, not too lat=
e) with this review, and here it is.
> =20
> Does the draft solves a real problem? From my POV, definitely yes.
>           1.         The problem stems from the following combination of =
facts fact that:
> a.       LDP distributes labels for FECs represented by IP prefixes (amon=
g other things).
> b.      LDP-based MPLS network are very widely deployed
> c.       SR operating over the MPLS DP allocates labels for SIDs that can=
 represent IP prefixes (again, among other things)
> d.      As a consequence, LDP and SR may effectively map the same IP pref=
ix to different labels.
>           2.         As SR using the MPLS DP is gaining acceptance in the=
 industry, the following deployment scenarios look as realistic to me:
> a.       Coexistence  between LDP-based and SR-based control planes in th=
e same network
> b.      Partial deployment of SR in some sub-domains of a network combine=
d with the operators=92 need to use the benefits of SR where it is already =
deployed
> c.       Gradual transition of services  (especially L2 and L3VPN) tunnel=
led over LDP-created LSPs to LSPs set up using SR (and, possibly, vice vers=
a)
> =20
> Is the draft a good enough start for a WG document? From my POV, yes.
> 1         The draft covers multiple (if not all) realistic use cases for =
coexistence of LDP-based and SR-based control planes and provides  what loo=
ks to me as reasonable solutions for these scenarios.
> 2         At the same I would think that additional work is required to c=
omplete the work.
> =20
> Specific issues with the current draft:
> 1         Editorial: SR-related abbreviations (e.g., SRGB, SID etc.) are =
used without expansion at the first use, and there is no =93Abbreviation=94=
 section in the draft.
> 2         Process/Editorial: The draft currently lists 12 authors on its =
title page exceeding the recommended RFC Editor maximum of 5 authors.
>           3.         Technical: The draft does not analyse the use case  =
of coexistence between SR and LDP with enabled extension for multi-area LSP=
s as per RFC 5283. I think that this use case deserves special consideratio=
n in the draft because:
> a.       It mentions the use case of seamless MPLS and refers to the (exp=
ired) Seamless MPLS Architecture draft
> b.       The seamless MPLS Architecture draft, in its turn, explicitly re=
fers to RFC 5283 in Section 5.1.1 to facilitate binding of labels received =
via the DoD LDP session while only default route is configured in the RIB o=
f the access node in the seamless MPLS architecture
> c.       It is possible that this use case would not add anything to the =
draft =96 but I would prefer to see it in the document with the appropriate=
 explanation
>           4.         Technical: Section 8 =93Manageability Considerations=
=94 is currently left empty. When this section is written, I would expect a=
t least the following:
> a.       Some level of detail regarding local  policies defining whether =
LDP-created or SR-created LSPs should be used etc.
> b.      Discussion of using LSP Ping for LSPs that are produced by stitch=
ing an LDP segment with an SR one.
> c.       Alternatively, it is possible to move this section to a separate=
 dedicated draft
>           5.         Technical: I think more information should be provid=
ed in Section 5 to explain operational aspects of SR-assisted LDP FR:
> a.       In Section 5.1 I would expect the draft to explain that:
>                                                                i.      No=
de D is selected as the RLFA using the same logic  that is defined for sele=
cting RLFA in RFC 7490
>                                                              ii.      The=
 =93bypass LSP=94 is set up by the SR CP automatically without any need for=
 management intervention
>                                                             iii.      I w=
ould like to understand why dynamically set up Targeted LDP sessions are an=
 operational concern. Such sessions appear also when BGP-based auto-discove=
ry for L2VPN is used, and, according to the analysis in RFC 7490, the scala=
bility problems associated with these sessions look as negligible.
> b.      In Section 5.2 I would expect the draft to explain that:
>                                                                i.      Th=
e resulting solution is similar to using a bypass LSP to a manually selecte=
d RLFA that is set up by RSVP-TE (the difference is that a Targeted LDP ses=
sion to such an RLFA would be still needed)
>                                                              ii.      Set=
 up of the  =93traffic-engineered bypass LSP=94 by the SR CP is triggered b=
y an appropriate management operation
>                                                             iii.      Wha=
t information should be provided by the Management Plane for computing the =
RLFA and the traffic-engineered  bypass LSP? Should it be similar to config=
uration parameters used with RSVP-TE?
>                                                            iv.      Which=
 kind of logic should be responsible for computing the RLFA and the path to=
 be taken by the engineered bypass LSP: should it be similar to the CSPF us=
ed with RSVP-TE?
>                                                              v.      How =
the traffic-engineered bypass LSP hat is set up by the SR CP would react to=
 additional changes in the network topology (the behaviour of the bypass LS=
P that is set by RSVP-TE in these situations is well known)
> c.       In both cases it is not clear how the backup label and NHOP are =
installed:
>                                                                i.      In=
 the FRR with RLFA  as per RFC 7490 this is usually done by LDP that receiv=
es the backup label as bound to the destination prefix FEC via the Targeted=
 LDP session, retains it and decides to us it when a route to the destinati=
on prefix using the LSP leading to the RLFA as its NHOP is installed in  th=
e RIB as the best route to the destination prefix by IP FRR
>                                                              ii.      Thi=
s scheme definitely would not work if the Targeted LDP session to the selec=
ted RLFA is eliminated
>                                                             iii.      Fro=
m my POV more details are required here, and the critical question here is,=
 of course, when the scheme proposed in the draft requires any changes in L=
DP.
> =20
> =20
> Neither of the issues listed above should be considered as preventing ado=
ption of the draft as a WG document IMO. Actually I think that resolving th=
ese issues in the context of a WG document would be more effective.
> =20
> Hopefully these notes will be useful.
> =20
> Regards,
> Sasha
> =20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> =20
> From: Jonathan Hardwick [mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:46 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Alvaro Retana (aretana); =
Jon Hudson
> Subject: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-r=
outing-ldp-interop
> =20
> Hi Sasha
> =20
> Please would you be the routing directorate QA reviewer for draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop?
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ld=
p-interop/
> =20
> This initial review has been prompted by the spring WG chairs in parallel=
 with a call for WG adoption.  As such, this document qualifies for =93init=
ial QA review=94.  Please could you provide your initial comments in the ne=
xt 3 weeks?  As per the QA process, we would also like you to stay with the=
 document and review it again when it goes to WG last call.
> =20
> The following web page contains a briefing on the QA process, and guidanc=
e for the QA reviewer.
> https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDirDocQa
> =20
> Please copy your comments to the spring and rtgdir mailing lists.
> =20
> Please let me know whether you can do it, or not.
> =20
> Many thanks
> Jon
> =20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: Alexander Vainshtein 
To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" 
Thread-Topic: [spring] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Hi Stefano,
OK by me.

Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) [mailto:sprevidi@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 4:13 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; Jonathan Hardwick; rtg-dir@ietf.org; spring@iet=
f.org; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-segment-routing-ldp-interop

Hi Sasha,

Many thanks for your review and comments. I'll go through them asap.


Thanks.
s.


On Jul 29, 2015, at 2:52 PM, Alexander Vainshtein  wrote:

> Hi,
> My previous message has been put on hold by the moderator of the SPRING W=
G as having too many recipients.
> This is partially due to the draft having 12 authors - and  have tried to=
 send the review to each of themJ.
> =20
> I am now re-sending it with a shorter (but, hopefully, sufficient - I bel=
ieve all the authors are on the SPRING mailing list anyway) list of recipie=
nts andwith one more issue I have found in the draft - highlighted.
> =20
> Regards,
> Sasha
> =20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> =20
> From: Alexander Vainshtein=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:37 PM
> To: 'rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org'
> Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Jon Hudson; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'rtg-dir@ietf.org'; 'spring@ietf.org'; mpls@ietf.org; 'cfilsfil@cis=
co.com'; 'sprevidi@cisco.com'; 'bashandy@cisco.com'; 'stephane.litkowski@or=
ange.com'; 'Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de'; 'igormilojevic@telekom.rs'; 'rob.=
shakir@bt.com'; 'saku@ytti.fi'; 'wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com'; 'Jeff =
Tantsura (jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com)'; 'edward.crabbe@gmail.com'
> Subject: RE: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segme=
nt-routing-ldp-interop
> =20
> Hi,
> My name is Sasha Vainshtein, and  I have been asked to perform the QA rev=
iew of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routi=
ng-ldp-interop/.
> =20
> Due to health problems I have been very late (but, hopefully, not too lat=
e) with this review, and here it is.
> =20
> Does the draft solves a real problem? From my POV, definitely yes.
>           1.         The problem stems from the following combination of =
facts fact that:
> a.       LDP distributes labels for FECs represented by IP prefixes (amon=
g other things).
> b.      LDP-based MPLS network are very widely deployed
> c.       SR operating over the MPLS DP allocates labels for SIDs that can=
 represent IP prefixes (again, among other things)
> d.      As a consequence, LDP and SR may effectively map the same IP pref=
ix to different labels.
>           2.         As SR using the MPLS DP is gaining acceptance in the=
 industry, the following deployment scenarios look as realistic to me:
> a.       Coexistence  between LDP-based and SR-based control planes in th=
e same network
> b.      Partial deployment of SR in some sub-domains of a network combine=
d with the operators' need to use the benefits of SR where it is already de=
ployed
> c.       Gradual transition of services  (especially L2 and L3VPN) tunnel=
led over LDP-created LSPs to LSPs set up using SR (and, possibly, vice vers=
a)
> =20
> Is the draft a good enough start for a WG document? From my POV, yes.
> 1         The draft covers multiple (if not all) realistic use cases for =
coexistence of LDP-based and SR-based control planes and provides  what loo=
ks to me as reasonable solutions for these scenarios.
> 2         At the same I would think that additional work is required to c=
omplete the work.
> =20
> Specific issues with the current draft:
> 1         Editorial: SR-related abbreviations (e.g., SRGB, SID etc.) are =
used without expansion at the first use, and there is no "Abbreviation" sec=
tion in the draft.
> 2         Process/Editorial: The draft currently lists 12 authors on its =
title page exceeding the recommended RFC Editor maximum of 5 authors.
>           3.         Technical: The draft does not analyse the use case  =
of coexistence between SR and LDP with enabled extension for multi-area LSP=
s as per RFC 5283. I think that this use case deserves special consideratio=
n in the draft because:
> a.       It mentions the use case of seamless MPLS and refers to the (exp=
ired) Seamless MPLS Architecture draft
> b.       The seamless MPLS Architecture draft, in its turn, explicitly re=
fers to RFC 5283 in Section 5.1.1 to facilitate binding of labels received =
via the DoD LDP session while only default route is configured in the RIB o=
f the access node in the seamless MPLS architecture
> c.       It is possible that this use case would not add anything to the =
draft - but I would prefer to see it in the document with the appropriate e=
xplanation
>           4.         Technical: Section 8 "Manageability Considerations" =
is currently left empty. When this section is written, I would expect at le=
ast the following:
> a.       Some level of detail regarding local  policies defining whether =
LDP-created or SR-created LSPs should be used etc.
> b.      Discussion of using LSP Ping for LSPs that are produced by stitch=
ing an LDP segment with an SR one.
> c.       Alternatively, it is possible to move this section to a separate=
 dedicated draft
>           5.         Technical: I think more information should be provid=
ed in Section 5 to explain operational aspects of SR-assisted LDP FR:
> a.       In Section 5.1 I would expect the draft to explain that:
>                                                                i.      No=
de D is selected as the RLFA using the same logic  that is defined for sele=
cting RLFA in RFC 7490
>                                                              ii.      The=
 "bypass LSP" is set up by the SR CP automatically without any need for man=
agement intervention
>                                                             iii.      I w=
ould like to understand why dynamically set up Targeted LDP sessions are an=
 operational concern. Such sessions appear also when BGP-based auto-discove=
ry for L2VPN is used, and, according to the analysis in RFC 7490, the scala=
bility problems associated with these sessions look as negligible.
> b.      In Section 5.2 I would expect the draft to explain that:
>                                                                i.      Th=
e resulting solution is similar to using a bypass LSP to a manually selecte=
d RLFA that is set up by RSVP-TE (the difference is that a Targeted LDP ses=
sion to such an RLFA would be still needed)
>                                                              ii.      Set=
 up of the  "traffic-engineered bypass LSP" by the SR CP is triggered by an=
 appropriate management operation
>                                                             iii.      Wha=
t information should be provided by the Management Plane for computing the =
RLFA and the traffic-engineered  bypass LSP? Should it be similar to config=
uration parameters used with RSVP-TE?
>                                                            iv.      Which=
 kind of logic should be responsible for computing the RLFA and the path to=
 be taken by the engineered bypass LSP: should it be similar to the CSPF us=
ed with RSVP-TE?
>                                                              v.      How =
the traffic-engineered bypass LSP hat is set up by the SR CP would react to=
 additional changes in the network topology (the behaviour of the bypass LS=
P that is set by RSVP-TE in these situations is well known)
> c.       In both cases it is not clear how the backup label and NHOP are =
installed:
>                                                                i.      In=
 the FRR with RLFA  as per RFC 7490 this is usually done by LDP that receiv=
es the backup label as bound to the destination prefix FEC via the Targeted=
 LDP session, retains it and decides to us it when a route to the destinati=
on prefix using the LSP leading to the RLFA as its NHOP is installed in  th=
e RIB as the best route to the destination prefix by IP FRR
>                                                              ii.      Thi=
s scheme definitely would not work if the Targeted LDP session to the selec=
ted RLFA is eliminated
>                                                             iii.      Fro=
m my POV more details are required here, and the critical question here is,=
 of course, when the scheme proposed in the draft requires any changes in L=
DP.
> =20
> =20
> Neither of the issues listed above should be considered as preventing ado=
ption of the draft as a WG document IMO. Actually I think that resolving th=
ese issues in the context of a WG document would be more effective.
> =20
> Hopefully these notes will be useful.
> =20
> Regards,
> Sasha
> =20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> =20
> From: Jonathan Hardwick [mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:46 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; jgs@juniper.net; Alvaro Retana (aretana); =
Jon Hudson
> Subject: Routing directorate QA review of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-r=
outing-ldp-interop
> =20
> Hi Sasha
> =20
> Please would you be the routing directorate QA reviewer for draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop?
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ld=
p-interop/
> =20
> This initial review has been prompted by the spring WG chairs in parallel=
 with a call for WG adoption.  As such, this document qualifies for "initia=
l QA review".  Please could you provide your initial comments in the next 3=
 weeks?  As per the QA process, we would also like you to stay with the doc=
ument and review it again when it goes to WG last call.
> =20
> The following web page contains a briefing on the QA process, and guidanc=
e for the QA reviewer.
> https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDirDocQa
> =20
> Please copy your comments to the spring and rtgdir mailing lists.
> =20
> Please let me know whether you can do it, or not.
> =20
> Many thanks
> Jon
> =20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


From nobody Wed Jul 29 18:22:49 2015
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From: Andrew Qu 
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
Thread-Index: AQHQxdE8jUti3orAQEqCOvm3DZDbXZ3qQZhggAVnVgCAAAFBUIABV0UA///4lfCAAGWSgP//0CywgAGCgYCAAAq/8A==
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 01:22:29 +0000
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Robert Raszuk 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Alright, not convincingly, I will hold it to myself for now=2E

Thanks

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco=2Ecom]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:53 AM
To: Andrew Qu; Shahram Davari
Cc: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

On 28/07/2015 18:55, Andrew Qu wrote:
> Hi Shahram,
>
> This is a question that must be answered,  but could you please hold the =
question for now?
>
> I just want to have one issue clarified before moving to another=2E
>
> Do we agree that _IF_ global label becomes necessary,  no-swap as =
primitive is necessary?
No, the primitive is not *needed*=2E

Stewart
>
> Understood that _IF_ will be next topic to follow=2E
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom=2Ecom]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:40 AM
> To: Andrew Qu
> Cc: stbryant@cisco=2Ecom; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk;=20
> mpls@ietf=2Eorg
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
>
> Andrew
>
> Continue operation in segment routing and in HSDN is not global label=2E =
Global label means every router knows how to forward a global label=2E What=
 is the application for a global label and how does each router know how to=
 forward it?
>
> Regards,
> Shahram
>
>
>> On Jul 28, 2015, at 7:58 AM, Andrew Qu  =
wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stewart,
>>
>> Agreed that SWAP must be kept because MPLS fundamentals can't be =
broken=2E
>> And I agreed that _if_ there is NO such global label space idea,=20
>> no-swap is optimization of swap as well=2E
>>
>> However I don't agree no-swap become an optimization in terms of=20
>> network Behavior when global label idea become a needed thing=2E
>>
>>
>> When global Label introduced, then no_swap is the conceptually right=20
>> thing for the transition [even Local implementation can use swap to=20
>> achieve, again, per previous conversation, the popular wisdom, which=20
>> I agreed as well,  is that this is local implementation, we should=20
>> not get involved, so we must define no-swap as the new primitive at=20
>> RFC level]
>>
>>
>> So the question really boils down to that do we need global label?
>>
>> I believe that is the key thing here=2E  May be we can put swap/no-swap =
aside for the moment=2E
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco=2Ecom]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:03 AM
>> To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
>> Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?
>>
>>> Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break=20
>>> backward capability=2E
>> Andrew
>>
>> Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces=2E
>> (there is much empirical evidence to support this position)
>>
>> So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices you =
cannot be sure that you can build an LSP=2E
>>
>> A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap=2E
>>
>> Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization=2E
>>
>> - Stewart
>>
>>
>> ************* Email Confidentiality Notice ******************** The=20
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From nobody Thu Jul 30 20:10:30 2015
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Label Switched Path (LSP) Ping/Trace for Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane
        Authors         : Nagendra Kumar
                          George Swallow
                          Carlos Pignataro
                          Nobo Akiya
                          Sriganesh Kini
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping-04.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2015-07-30

Abstract:
   Segment Routing architecture leverages the source routing and
   tunneling paradigms and can be directly applied to MPLS data plane.
   A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions
   called segments, by prepending the packet with a Segment Routing
   header.

   The segment assignment and forwarding semantic nature of Segment
   Routing raises additional consideration for connectivity verification
   and fault isolation in LSP with Segment Routing architecture.  This
   document illustrates the problem and describe a mechanism to perform
   LSP Ping and Traceroute on Segment Routing network over MPLS data
   plane.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kumarkini-mpls-spring-lsp-ping-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Jul 30 22:33:16 2015
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From: Pushpasis Sarkar 
To: "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Archived-At: 
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support.

On 7/22/15, 3:17 PM, "spring on behalf of John G.Scudder"
 wrote:

>Dear WG,
>
>As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been
>requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please
>reply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to
>whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially
>encouraged to comment.
>
>In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on
>concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>
>Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if
>so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list
>for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the
>document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when
>submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the
>active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the
>full list.
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Bruno and John
>
>P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
>_______________________________________________
>spring mailing list
>spring@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: "George Swallow (swallow)" 
To: Pushpasis Sarkar , "spring@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] working group adoption call for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop
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Support.

On 7/31/15, 1:32 AM, "spring on behalf of Pushpasis Sarkar"
 wrote:

>Support.
>
>On 7/22/15, 3:17 PM, "spring on behalf of John G.Scudder"
> wrote:
>
>>Dear WG,
>>
>>As we discussed at our meeting yesterday, working group adoption has been
>>requested for draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop. Please
>>reply to the list with your comments, including although not limited to
>>whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are especially
>>encouraged to comment.
>>
>>In consideration of the fact that a number of WG calls are going on
>>concurrently, we will end the call on August 31, 2015.
>>
>>Authors, please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if
>>so, whether it has been disclosed. Also, the length of the author list
>>for this document greatly exceeds the maximum recommended. Assuming the
>>document is adopted, the authors should be prepared to correct this when
>>submitting as a WG document, ideally by reducing the list to simply the
>>active editor(s) and making use of the "contributors" section for the
>>full list.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>--Bruno and John
>>
>>P.S.: Cc MPLS owing to the LDP connection. Please respect the reply-to.
>>_______________________________________________
>>spring mailing list
>>spring@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>_______________________________________________
>spring mailing list
>spring@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


From nobody Fri Jul 31 18:18:54 2015
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-10.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Configuration of Proactive Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Functions for MPLS-based Transport Networks using LSP Ping
        Authors         : Elisa Bellagamba
                          Gregory Mirsky
                          Loa Andersson
                          Pontus Skoldstrom
                          Dave Ward
                          John Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-10.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2015-07-31

Abstract:
   This specification describes the configuration of proactive MPLS-TP
   Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Functions for a
   given LSP using a set of TLVs that are carried by the LSP-Ping
   protocol.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-mpls-tp-oam-conf-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


Eric,

Just FYI I have already started last week to review and=
 discuss with openconfig team this topic. So Thank You for advice but it ca=
me a bit too late :)=C2=A0

As to the core of the issue .. looking strictly technical I am really =
not clear why there is so much resistance to add NO_SWAP/CONTINUE primitive=
 to 3031bis .... would it break anything ?

Cheers,
R.


On Mon, Jul 27, =
2015 at 5:45 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> wrote:
On 7/24/2015 4:21 PM, Rob=
ert Raszuk wrote:



Assume I have a HSDN model and want to set DC labels from controller to

the switch using mpls YANG I2RS channel - how would I do it ?





Robert,



Perhaps you could take that question to whichever WG is doing the Yang mode=
l in question.



You seem to be speculating that a Yang model with the properties you'd =
like to see would be rejected as a standard, due to some incompatibility wi=
th RFC3031.



I'd suggest that you work to get the Yang model the way you think it sh=
ould be.=C2=A0 If it is later claimed by some WG or AD that the model canno=
t be standardized because it is incompatible with RFC3031, the MPLS WG can =
evaluate the specifics of that claim, and determine whether it needs to tak=
e any action.



Eric







--e89a8f3ba5f3536332051bdfe34a--


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From: Andrew Qu 
To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Alexander Vainshtein , Robert Raszuk , Shahram Davari 
Thread-Topic: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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Hi Stewart,

From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco=2Ecom]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 4:30 PM
To: Andrew Qu; Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?

On 24/07/2015 09:06, Andrew Qu wrote:
Hi Sasha,


My comments in lines=2E=2E=2E




From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf=2Eorg] On Behalf Of Alexander =
Vainshtein
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 7:26 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; Shahram Davari
Cc: mpls@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much =
does it really save?


Hi all,

Please note that CONTINUE in SPRING is:

1=2E A DP-agnostic primitive

2=2E *Implemented* as SWAP instruction with MPLS DP=2E



[Andrew]  You are contradicting with 1) and 2)=2E
What Sasha says is correct
[Andrew]  I don't think so,  points are listed below=2E


With "CONTINUE" defined in SR draft,  for NEW ASIC to be designed,

Why should I still use "SWAP" to achieve it?
=2E=2E because you need to be backwards compatible with
the deployed equipment and deployed networks=2E

[Andrew] "backwards compatible" is right consideration, hence I don't =
object
                to mention 2) as an option, so people read such RFC will be=
 clear about
how to support that feature using existing device=2E  but "NO_SWAP" is =
another option
to support such primitive called "CONTINUE", to be REALLY "DP-agnostic", =
they you must
exhaust all options to also mention "NO_SWAP" simply from being logically =
consistent
"agnostic", let alone there are technical benefits to mention=2E

Adding "NO_SWAP" for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break backward =
capability=2E

Rule number 1 says "DP-agnostic", but at the same time you purposely leave =
one option out but
Insists one more two options, then it is contradicting, simply from logic =
point of view=2E

If that is not a requirement in your world, then I suggest
that you get a new ethertype and call it MPLS2

[Andrew] You mis-understood my points,  I am fully aware of backward =
compatibility requirement by asking
adding NO_SWAP primitive=2E
                Please think again if I need MPLS2 or not,  I don't think =
so=2E

Andrew


- Stewart
=0D
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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:03:22 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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> Adding “NO_SWAP” for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT break 
> backward capability.
>
Andrew

Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces.
(there is much empirical evidence to support this position)

So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices
you cannot be sure that you can build an LSP.

A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap.

Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization.

- Stewart



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Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--089e0116000292165d051bed87fd
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Stewart,

That is not quite correct.

I can have context label directing my packets to a completely new label
space on both old and new devices.

Therefor mutually disjoined non aligned label space is not sufficient
reason to enforce swap action on all LSRs.

Besides while you can call it as optimization what is the problem in
defining it ?

Cheers,
R.
On Jul 28, 2015 1:03 PM, "Stewart Bryant"  wrote:

> Adding =E2=80=9CNO_SWAP=E2=80=9D for new/future generation DEVICE does NO=
T break backward
>> capability.
>>
>>  Andrew
>
> Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces.
> (there is much empirical evidence to support this position)
>
> So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices
> you cannot be sure that you can build an LSP.
>
> A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap.
>
> Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
>

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Stewart,


That is not quite correct.


I can have context label directing my packets to a completel=
y new label space on both old and new devices.


Therefor mutually disjoined non aligned label space is not s=
ufficient reason to enforce swap action on all LSRs.


Besides while you can call it as optimization what is the pr=
oblem in defining it ?


Cheers,

R.


On Jul 28, 2015 1:03 PM, "Stewart Bryant&qu=
ot; <stbryant@cisco.com> wr=
ote:

Adding =E2=80=9CNO_SWAP=E2=80=9D for new/future generation DEVICE does NOT =
break backward capability.





Andrew



Existing devices should be assumed to have non-aligned label spaces.

(there is much empirical evidence to support this position)



So if you have a no-swap only device between two existing devices

you cannot be sure that you can build an LSP.



A backwards compatible device would therefore need to support swap.



Once you support swap then no-swap become an optimization.



- Stewart








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From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 07:49:38 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Stewart Bryant 
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Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , Robert Raszuk 
Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-fang-mpls-label-forwarding-no-swap - how much does it really save?
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--047d7b66f46fd20b9a051bee1197
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Stewart has it right:

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Stewart Bryant  wrote:

> If that is not a requirement in your world, then I suggest
> that you get a new ethertype and call it MPLS2
>

This is enough of a deviation from the millions of devices in the installed
base that you can just get a new Ethertype and optimize to your heart's
content. You're going to need new ASICs anyway, may as well go all the way.
This also removes the need to do any sort of peer capability negotiation
for backwards compatibility, and gives you the freedom to produce devices
that ONLY support MPLS2 if you so desire, to have a less expensive and
optimized data center solution. I would support standardization in this
case.

Cheers,
Andy

--047d7b66f46fd20b9a051bee1197
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Stewart has it right:

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Stewart Bryant <stbryant@ci=
sco.com> wrote:
If that is not a requirement in your world, =
then I suggest 

    that you get a new ethertype and call it MPLS2

This is enough of a deviation from the millions =
of devices in the installed base that you can just get a new Ethertype and =
optimize to your heart's content. You're going to need new ASICs an=
yway, may as well go all the way. This also removes the need to do any sort=
 of peer capability negotiation for backwards compatibility, and gives you =
the freedom to produce devices that ONLY support MPLS2 if you so desire, to=
 have a less expensive and optimized data center solution. I would support =
standardization in this case.

Cheers,
Andy
<=
div class=3D"gmail_extra">