From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 1 02:52:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862463A6B5C; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 02:52:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C32033A6AC1 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 02:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tlvf34agekJ5 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 02:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68603A6A75 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 02:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Envelope-to: multimob@ietf.org Received: from e178172105.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.172.105] helo=[192.168.178.20]) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KwD9C-0009FH-Js; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 10:51:58 +0100 Message-ID: <490C26E8.10103@fhtw-berlin.de> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 10:52:40 +0100 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hui Deng References: <352065.68132.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4900E5A0.9050306@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <1d38a3350810312008x377ea91aw2739355335d2a207@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1d38a3350810312008x377ea91aw2739355335d2a207@mail.gmail.com> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments on draft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hui, if I see things correctly, this scenario is already used in the pmipv6 = solution draft ... so it is probably helpful to first properly identify = it in the requirements document. IMHO, as the main objective, the requirements document should clearly = identify the "world we work in", i.e., all the requirements & = constraints, as well as the general scenarios. If we suppress relevant issues here and bring them up in the solutions = later, the might be neither transparent nor helpful. Best regards, Thomas Hui Deng wrote: > Hi, Thomas, > = > I agree this scenario works for some deployment, but question here is = > whether we need extend any pmip6 protocol to support this scenario? > = > thanks > = > -Hui > = > 2008/10/24 Thomas C. Schmidt > > = > Hi Behcet, > = > Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > = > [thomas] RFC5213 does not address multicast routing (that's why > we are > discussing it). The scenario described in fig 2 is *not* addressi= ng > mobile multicast senders, > = > [behcet] Then I think the text and figure on the local routing > is not needed because local routing in PMIPv6 refers to the > routing of packets coming from the uplink and as you said this > would be multicast sender situation which you left out in the > requirements draft. > = > = > [thomas] This is a misunderstanding: Fig 2 does *not* refer to > sender mobility. > = > = > but a typical content distribution setting as > for instance used in a provider-centric IPTV service. This means,= a > provider issues multicast streams from within his network > domain, aiming > at an efficient way to preserve (his own) network resources. > = > From the minimal perspective of RFC5213 (unicast routing) there > is no > efficient way to do this. That's why we are trying to identify > protocol > extensions that smoothly cooperate with RFC 5213. > = > [behcet] The situation you are talking about could become valid > if route optimization is used with PMIPv6. In that case the > content server in between MAG and LMA would send directly to > MAG. If route optimization is not used then all traffic goes > through LMA-MAG tunnel. Route optimization for PMIPv6 is some > future work, there are drafts but we don't know if the > standardization will go ahead. > Route optimization with multicasting is even more complicated > problem. If you wish to state some requirements for this very > complicated case please go ahead. > = > = > [thomas] Hmm, I'm not trying to add complicated requirements. This > is the overview about possible scenarios. > We're all just trying to think of a reasonable scope to address and > solve the problem (so does the recent pmip6-extension-draft ... see > also the last mail from Hitoshi). > = > If multicast on PMIPv6 is supposed to serve as a solution for > large-scale content distribution (like in IPTV applications), then > we should not just propose to tunnel all traffic from one LMA to the > MAGs. That's a bitter pill for those who have to pay for the > infrastructure. > = > = > Best regards, > = > Thomas > = > -- = > = > =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt > =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik > =B0 University of Applied Sciences > =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany > =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 > =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt > = > = > = > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > = > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 1 18:24:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C079B3A68CD; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:24:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FA63A6870 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:24:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZOCOl6NVXkwR for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF7A3A6821 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so711550eyd.31 for ; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:24:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=Z0dACIPWlcpiRX/oVWmWoYEtkQWm9nhVeCVmRXDt/YM=; b=olyt2Kq/40Fu7uRSXUsFacTss3VmtECqCFw/duCGryqJey3BpwK/rhUUsaHJgbtf+X aQ2xOqiB40qlxSOwcmHVEKqKlGBxg/yumOBAelsFP4U//fPTjG5e9e8Zpip5sjSWNTNV 5RztqWrHIqfeZB54makXd7WMVbakN8KPy4N4M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=Ou2DahOY9BVX5oEHbG8v1/FrICEayiJtoERQtZFO05doWwOHk1apURLZ0kferIGibo U1a+ukHuPHnw/6daMLkAiFo+ZEVKkK77VVXdymqS8KBdup7pKvKPt81X/A3md9dKL1nR MDgTiF5e/qQAZCu/NOqBw5M/c70VsXFEaeTNs= Received: by 10.210.29.11 with SMTP id c11mr6841947ebc.30.1225589079655; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.109.14 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1d38a3350811011824xcc11f0bh53598de378697451@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 09:24:39 +0800 From: "Hui Deng" To: "Thomas C. Schmidt" In-Reply-To: <490C26E8.10103@fhtw-berlin.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <352065.68132.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4900E5A0.9050306@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <1d38a3350810312008x377ea91aw2739355335d2a207@mail.gmail.com> <490C26E8.10103@fhtw-berlin.de> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments on draft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0358573358==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0358573358== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_56132_17808068.1225589079657" ------=_Part_56132_17808068.1225589079657 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi, Thomas It seems my question wasn't answer, does PMIP6 need extention to support local routing? Regarding to your suggestion, that scenario in pmip solution is just briefly mentioned. other than our figure plus detail description. It might be ok that we could describe local routing with similar word number like pmip6 rfc? thanks -Hui 2008/11/1 Thomas C. Schmidt > Hi Hui, > > if I see things correctly, this scenario is already used in the pmipv6 > solution draft ... so it is probably helpful to first properly identify i= t > in the requirements document. > > IMHO, as the main objective, the requirements document should clearly > identify the "world we work in", i.e., all the requirements & constraints= , > as well as the general scenarios. > > If we suppress relevant issues here and bring them up in the solutions > later, the might be neither transparent nor helpful. > > Best regards, > > Thomas > > Hui Deng wrote: > >> Hi, Thomas, >> I agree this scenario works for some deployment, but question here is >> whether we need extend any pmip6 protocol to support this scenario? >> thanks >> -Hui >> >> 2008/10/24 Thomas C. Schmidt > schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de>> >> >> Hi Behcet, >> >> Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >> >> [thomas] RFC5213 does not address multicast routing (that's why >> we are >> discussing it). The scenario described in fig 2 is *not* addressi= ng >> mobile multicast senders, >> >> [behcet] Then I think the text and figure on the local routing >> is not needed because local routing in PMIPv6 refers to the >> routing of packets coming from the uplink and as you said this >> would be multicast sender situation which you left out in the >> requirements draft. >> >> >> [thomas] This is a misunderstanding: Fig 2 does *not* refer to >> sender mobility. >> >> >> but a typical content distribution setting as >> for instance used in a provider-centric IPTV service. This means,= a >> provider issues multicast streams from within his network >> domain, aiming >> at an efficient way to preserve (his own) network resources. >> >> From the minimal perspective of RFC5213 (unicast routing) there >> is no >> efficient way to do this. That's why we are trying to identify >> protocol >> extensions that smoothly cooperate with RFC 5213. >> >> [behcet] The situation you are talking about could become valid >> if route optimization is used with PMIPv6. In that case the >> content server in between MAG and LMA would send directly to >> MAG. If route optimization is not used then all traffic goes >> through LMA-MAG tunnel. Route optimization for PMIPv6 is some >> future work, there are drafts but we don't know if the >> standardization will go ahead. >> Route optimization with multicasting is even more complicated >> problem. If you wish to state some requirements for this very >> complicated case please go ahead. >> >> >> [thomas] Hmm, I'm not trying to add complicated requirements. This >> is the overview about possible scenarios. >> We're all just trying to think of a reasonable scope to address and >> solve the problem (so does the recent pmip6-extension-draft ... see >> also the last mail from Hitoshi). >> >> If multicast on PMIPv6 is supposed to serve as a solution for >> large-scale content distribution (like in IPTV applications), then >> we should not just propose to tunnel all traffic from one LMA to the >> MAGs. That's a bitter pill for those who have to pay for the >> infrastructure. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Thomas >> >> -- >> =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt >> =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik >> =B0 University of Applied Sciences >> =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany >> =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 >> =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multimob mailing list >> multimob@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob >> > ------=_Part_56132_17808068.1225589079657 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi, Thomas
 
It seems my question wasn't answer, does PMIP6 need extention to s= upport local routing?
 
Regarding to your suggestion, that scenario in pmip solution is just b= riefly mentioned.
other than our figure plus detail description. It might be ok that we&= nbsp;could describe local routing with similar word number like pmip6 rfc?<= br>
thanks
 
-Hui
 
 
2008/11/1 Thomas C. Schmidt &l= t;schmidt@fhtw-berlin.de><= /span>
Hi Hui,

if I see things c= orrectly, this scenario is already used in the pmipv6 solution draft ... so= it is probably helpful to first properly identify it in the requirements d= ocument.

IMHO, as the main objective, the requirements document should clearly i= dentify the "world we work in", i.e., all the requirements & = constraints, as well as the general scenarios.

If we suppress releva= nt issues here and bring them up in the solutions later, the might be neith= er transparent nor helpful.

Best regards,

Thomas

Hui Deng wrote:
Hi,  Thomas,=20

 I agree this scenario works for some deploy= ment, but question here is whether we need extend any pmip6 protocol to sup= port this scenario?
 thanks
 -Hui

2008/10/24 T= homas C. Schmidt <schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de <mailto:schmidt@inf= ormatik.haw-hamburg.de>>

   Hi Behcet,

   Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
<= br>       [thomas] RFC5213 does not address multicast r= outing (that's why
       we are
   = ;    discussing it). The scenario described in fig 2 is *not* add= ressing
       mobile multicast senders,

    &= nbsp;  [behcet] Then I think the text and figure on the local routing<= br>       is not needed because local routing in PMIPv6= refers to the
       routing of packets coming from= the uplink and as you said this
       would be multicast sender situation which you le= ft out in the
       requirements draft.


=    [thomas] This is a misunderstanding: Fig 2 does *not* refer to=
   sender mobility.


       but= a typical content distribution setting as
       for instance used in a provider-centric IPTV ser= vice. This means, a
       provider issues multicast= streams from within his network
       domain, aimi= ng
       at an efficient way to preserve (his own) = network resources.

        From the minimal perspective of RFC5213 (un= icast routing) there
       is no
    &= nbsp;  efficient way to do this. That's why we are trying to ident= ify
       protocol
       ex= tensions that smoothly cooperate with RFC 5213.=20


       [behcet] The situa= tion you are talking about could become valid
       = ;if route optimization is used with PMIPv6. In that case the
  &nbs= p;    content server in between MAG and LMA would send directly t= o
       MAG. If route optimization is not used then all = traffic goes
       through LMA-MAG tunnel. Route op= timization for PMIPv6 is some
       future work, th= ere are drafts but we don't know if the
       s= tandardization will go ahead.
       Route optimization with multicasting is even mor= e complicated
       problem. If you wish to state s= ome requirements for this very
       complicated ca= se please go ahead.


   [thomas] Hmm, I'm not tryin= g to add complicated requirements. This
   is the overview about possible scenarios.
    We&= #39;re all just trying to think of a reasonable scope to address and
&nb= sp;  solve the problem (so does the recent pmip6-extension-draft ... s= ee
   also the last mail from Hitoshi).

   If multicast on PMIPv6 is supposed to serve as a solution = for
   large-scale content distribution (like in IPTV applicat= ions), then
   we should not just propose to tunnel all traffi= c from one LMA to the
   MAGs. That's a bitter pill for th= ose who have to pay for the
   infrastructure.


   Best regards,
   Thomas

   --
   =B0 Prof. = Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt
   =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik
=    =B0 University of Applied Sciences
   =B0 Berline= r Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany
   =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409
   =B0 ht= tp://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt



------------= ------------------------------------------------------------=20


_____________________________________________= __
multimob mailing list
multimob@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/multimob

------=_Part_56132_17808068.1225589079657-- --===============0358573358== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0358573358==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 2 13:08:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261983A6973; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:08:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7B93A6995 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:08:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.668 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.668 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cAqxKXrCfZav for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:08:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EBB2E3A6973 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 62335 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Nov 2008 21:08:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=zlrjj8UlrGcVMqPnj92W71SFupYEVCWpR5EtUERCwtMLbILaY2iGOlf4ooBP99TVZDD6Xco4JJXDadUgTnaQDa7taERwScaCrN0aH6rNBFkmU9u0A382SAD2SqivIc29FrCaHU2EHtH9HTHgnUhvOjSo+27Kui1U1Lz/yNOqe1Q=; X-YMail-OSG: gjR22RUVM1l7TVHW32ypw19ZClIxMsN2kRLMosG3SjYaXlqmyfAKM8_hUqaicTscnFd78MsQExezRNOH.J5JcRvBhW2dHMnlRle7IVxZrPHu3OBVuZSYCTjRtI1wpRvlKS3C73vemoEklJlgEeCb_ZhSGcRac9txiZUdCYxm2ZdKw7hEQgk50qF1aZFU Received: from [71.252.158.246] by web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:08:43 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.247.3 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:08:43 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <636156.58427.qm@web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: [multimob] Draft BoF Agenda X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1230225009==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1230225009== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1917736782-1225660123=:58427" --0-1917736782-1225660123=:58427 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, We posted the agenda at: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/agenda/multimob.html the meeting will be held in Duluth room. Please send any change requests to Brian and me. Also, the presenters, please send your presentations in one of the acceptable formats to Brian and me. Kind regards, Brian & Behcet --0-1917736782-1225660123=:58427 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi all,
  We posted the agenda at:
http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/agenda/multimob.html
the meeting will be held in Duluth room.
  Please send any change requests to Brian and me.
  Also, the presenters, please send your presentations in one of the acceptable formats to Brian and me.

Kind regards,

Brian & Behcet

--0-1917736782-1225660123=:58427-- --===============1230225009== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1230225009==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 3 22:25:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953213A6892; Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:25:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82DEC3A68A0 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:25:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.527 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.527 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.637, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8AdFzrb7Cpu2 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085D03A688E for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9S003F8PTW6X@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:25:09 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9S00D21PTW37@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:25:08 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.133]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0K9S00AYNPTRUJ@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:25:08 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:25:03 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <1d38a3350810311849g5aafb87x727bc2a799a2a247@mail.gmail.com> To: 'Hui Deng' Message-id: <012101c93e46$129928f0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBA Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments on draft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0161531341==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0161531341== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_fe3y9pnyDJQKClNYASukIQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_fe3y9pnyDJQKClNYASukIQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi,hui Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for operator to push some feature service within its domian . How about it? Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao _____ Hi, John, Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured multicast service which need infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. thanks for your discussion. -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd party policy store is required. On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast mobility. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao --Boundary_(ID_fe3y9pnyDJQKClNYASukIQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi,hui
 
    Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments.
    You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for operator to push some feature service within its domian .
    How about it?
 
 
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,
 
 

john.zhao
Hi, John,
 
Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured multicast service which need infrastrucutre support.
What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB.
 
thanks for your discussion.
 
-Hui
2008/10/24 John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com>
Hello,Hui and all
 
    One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network will:
 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree scenario.
    From the architecture perspective, the support of network management is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a better scability.

    In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network just like the following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it.
     During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd party policy store is required.
 
    On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast mobility.
 
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,
 

john.zhao
 

--Boundary_(ID_fe3y9pnyDJQKClNYASukIQ)-- --===============0161531341== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0161531341==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:22:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A143A682E; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:22:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F643A682E for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KDYEIUKS3Kbe for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail12.telekom.de (tcmail12.telekom.de [217.5.214.82]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679B83A6358 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from S4DE8PSAANQ.mitte.t-com.de (S4DE8PSAANQ.mitte.t-com.de [10.151.180.166]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:22:06 +0100 Received: from S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de ([10.151.229.14]) by S4DE8PSAANQ.mitte.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:21:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:21:55 +0100 Message-Id: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761B6@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <012101c93e46$129928f0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt Thread-Index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBAAAiH6tA= From: "von Hugo, Dirk" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2008 13:21:56.0028 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F14F7C0:01C93E80] Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1393346617==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1393346617== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C93E80.4EB96F4E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C93E80.4EB96F4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic = from an other operator's viewpoint:=20 =20 As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) = should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) = standard for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid = satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return channel = (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) - such it should allow for normal MLD operation = as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an = approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that = provides multicast support ... - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will = include IPTV subscription via IGMP/MLD. =20 Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send = an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed = multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to L3. =20 I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast = service would include handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to = save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and may = cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of = available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB's ESG - = Electronic Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support = services such as authorisation keys for decoding content) =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von John.zhao Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 07:25 An: 'Hui Deng' Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [multimob] Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,hui =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it = is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, = some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of = support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can = be omitted. In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't = the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but = the request can't be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction = link". I think it is useful for operator to push some feature service = within its domian . How about it? =20 =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao _____ =20 Hi, John, =20 Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better = include network preconfigured multicast service which need = infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be = provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be = based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. =20 thanks for your discussion. =20 -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all =20 One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is = responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To = some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be = got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN = can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on = the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of = multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast = service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some = typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of = view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle = this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service = use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it = , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management = is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same = except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent = from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a = better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by = network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile = and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be = established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in = this case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either = PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this = request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is = expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd = party policy store is required.=20 =20 On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly = subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in = addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy = multicast mobility. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 john.zhao =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C93E80.4EB96F4E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear = all,

Not directly = answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic from an other = operator’s viewpoint:

 

As far as I = understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) should be similar to = Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard for DVB (digital video = broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a = different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) – such it should allow for normal = MLD operation as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within = 3GPP/UMTS or 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an = approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that provides = multicast support … - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV = subscription via IGMP/MLD.

=A0=

Concerning pure = DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send an MLD to the interface = (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets within DVB = stream are filtered and forwarded to L3.

 

I agree that = operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include = handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to save resources or strengthen = the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or = management services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to subscribe = to such as DVB’s ESG - =A0Electronic Servuice Guide or for = operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation keys for decoding = content)

 

Best regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Nachricht-----
Von: = multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von John.zhao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. = November 2008 07:25
An: 'Hui Deng'
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Betreff: Re: [multimob] = Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,hui

 

  &nbs= p; Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following = comments.

  &nbs= p; You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because = we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just = like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it = is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another = side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node = want to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. It = is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for = operator to push some feature service within its domian .

  &nbs= p; How about it?

 

 

  &nbs= p; Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

 

john.zhao

Hi, = John,

 

Sorry for my = late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network = preconfigured multicast service which need infrastrucutre support.

What I could = remind is that normally such kind of service will be provided = by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV = mechanism like CMMB.

 

thanks for = your discussion.

 

-Hui

2008/10/24 = John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com><= /font>

Hello,Hui and = all

 

    One comments on section 3.1 = about "R2 - The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to = the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast = service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration = on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the = subscribtion is no need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network = will:

 1.1)No = network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some typical service = should be managed from network side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a = TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too because it may = corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. = Without it , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario.
    From the architecture perspective, the support of = network management is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be = the same except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report = sent from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a = better scability.


    In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network = just like the following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's = profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, = then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, the = method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it.
     During handover, it will be very like current = design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, = a 3-rd party policy store is required.

 

    On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription = didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can = bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast = mobility.

 

    Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

john.zhao

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C93E80.4EB96F4E-- --===============1393346617== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1393346617==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 00:03:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1014D3A6993; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:03:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B193A6993 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:03:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.242, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZk7tMiVyiVq for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5413A6909 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:03:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9W00H8DJMIGC@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:01:31 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9W00IK2JMIJA@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:01:30 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.133]) by szxml05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0K9W00JB4JMFDE@szxml05-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:01:30 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:01:26 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761B6@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> To: "'von Hugo, Dirk'" , denghui02@gmail.com Message-id: <00ff01c93fe5$deb62730$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBAAAiH6tAAX0ouEA== Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1896943285==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1896943285== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4cbVvNDKa/AxG5N7EChAaw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_4cbVvNDKa/AxG5N7EChAaw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi,Dirk =20 Thanks for your explanation. See my comments inline. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Dear all, Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic = from an other operator=92s viewpoint:=20 =20 As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) = should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard = for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) =96 such it should allow for normal MLD = operation as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that provides = multicast support =85 - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV = subscription via IGMP/MLD. [John.zhao] So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of IGMP/MLD is for future,right? =20 Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send = an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to L3. [John.zhao] If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface = in L2 to inform about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send it out if no return channel available? =20 I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to = save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB=92s ESG - Electronic = Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation keys for decoding content) [John.zhao] Yes. Agree.=20 =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von John.zhao Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 07:25 An: 'Hui Deng' Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,hui =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it = is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. = In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but the request can't = be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is = useful for operator to push some feature service within its domian . How about it? =20 =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao _____ =20 Hi, John, =20 Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured multicast service which need = infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be = provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. =20 thanks for your discussion. =20 -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all =20 One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is = responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on the request come = from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some = typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of view of = the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too = because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it = , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management = is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same = except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent from = MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile = and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, = the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or = MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is = expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd party = policy store is required.=20 =20 On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast mobility. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 john.zhao =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_4cbVvNDKa/AxG5N7EChAaw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,Dirk
 
       =20 Thanks for your = explanation. See my comments=20 inline.
   
    Best = Rgds,
Thanks,

john.zhao
Dear=20 all,

Not = directly=20 answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic from an other = operator=92s viewpoint:

 

As far as I = understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) should be = similar to=20 Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard for DVB = (digital=20 video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial = downlink=20 combined with a different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) =96 = such it=20 should allow for normal MLD operation as in MBMS (Multimedia=20 Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or 3GPP2 BCMCS = (Broadcast and=20 Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for = mobile, an=20 overlay to mobile networks that provides multicast support =85 - = furthermore=20 DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV subscription via IGMP/MLD.
[John.zhao] So=20 inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for=20 future,right?

 

Concerning = pure DVB=20 there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send an MLD to the = interface=20 (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets = within DVB=20 stream are filtered and forwarded to L3.
[John.zhao] If are=20 you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface in L2 to inform = about=20 related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send = it out if=20 no return channel available?

 

I agree = that operator=20 requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include = handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to save resources or = strengthen=20 the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or = management=20 services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to = subscribe to=20 such as DVB=92s ESG -  Electronic Servuice Guide or for=20 operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation = keys=20 for decoding content)
[John.zhao] Yes. Agree. 

 

Best = regards=20

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: = multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von = John.zhao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November = 2008=20 07:25
An: 'Hui=20 Deng'
Cc:=20 multimob@ietf.org
Betreff:=20 Re: [multimob] Comments=20 ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,hui

 

   =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following=20 comments.

   =20 You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the=20 receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because = we=20 didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system = just like=20 IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once = it is=20 ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another = side, the=20 DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile = node want=20 to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. = It is a=20 kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for operator to = push some=20 feature service within its domian .

   =20 How about it?

 

 

   =20 Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

 

john.zhao

Hi, = John,

 

Sorry for my late reply, = here you are=20 suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured = multicast=20 service which need infrastrucutre support.

What I could remind is that = normally=20 such kind of service will be provided by MBMS, BCMCS, = especially=20 mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism = like=20 CMMB.

 

thanks for your=20 discussion.

 

-Hui

2008/10/24 John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com><= /FONT>

Hello,Hui and=20 all

 

    = One comments on section 3.1 = about "R2 -=20 The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to the = multicast=20 group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this=20 subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration = on MAG.=20 I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the = subscribtion is no=20 need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN=20 initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's = network=20 will:

 1.1)No network = originated service=20 support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from = MN.But=20 in fact, there are still some typical service should be managed from = network=20 side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast = model. It is=20 worth to handle this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H = mobile TV=20 service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in = wireless=20 situation. Without it , we can save more resource not only during = handover=20 but also in network entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those = static=20 multicast tree scenario.
    From the architecture = perspective, the support of network management is the base of MN = management.=20 Since other signal flow will be the same except MAG need have the = ability to=20 deal with additional MLD report sent from MN.So it is no more = additional=20 cost on current design but bring a better = scability.


    In detail, the progress = of the=20 management of multicast service by network just like the=20 following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will = get the=20 MN's profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services = need to be=20 established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, = in this=20 case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either = PMIP=20 signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this = request=20 and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about=20 it.
     During handover, it will be very = like=20 current design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast = infomation=20 and if need, a 3-rd party policy store is required. =

 

    On = summary,=20 considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't = impact=20 on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can = bring a=20 scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast=20 mobility.

 

    = Best = Rgds,

Thanks,

 

john.zhao

 

 

--Boundary_(ID_4cbVvNDKa/AxG5N7EChAaw)-- --===============1896943285== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1896943285==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 00:06:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9908D3A6946; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:06:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A875E3A6946 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:06:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYQ4xsupbil3 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail12.telekom.de (tcmail12.telekom.de [217.5.214.82]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BDB13A6909 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de (s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de [10.151.180.168]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:06:21 +0100 Received: from S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de ([10.151.229.14]) by s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:06:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:06:19 +0100 Message-Id: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761C2@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <00ff01c93fe5$deb62730$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt Thread-Index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBAAAiH6tAAX0ouEAAAUt4w From: "von Hugo, Dirk" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2008 08:06:20.0519 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D771770:01C93FE6] Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1502713674==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1502713674== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C93FE6.8D1A4C6A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C93FE6.8D1A4C6A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear John, exactly that's what I wanted to say ... Thanks and best regards Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. November 2008 09:01 An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [multimob] Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,Dirk =20 Thanks for your explanation. See my comments inline. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Dear all, Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic = from an other operator's viewpoint:=20 =20 As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) = should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) = standard for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid = satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return channel = (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) - such it should allow for normal MLD operation = as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an = approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that = provides multicast support ... - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will = include IPTV subscription via IGMP/MLD. [John.zhao] So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for future,right? =20 Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send = an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed = multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to L3. [John.zhao] If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface = in L2 to inform about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter = it and didn't send it out if no return channel available? =20 I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast = service would include handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to = save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and may = cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of = available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB's ESG - = Electronic Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support = services such as authorisation keys for decoding content) [John.zhao] Yes. Agree.=20 =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von John.zhao Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 07:25 An: 'Hui Deng' Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [multimob] Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,hui =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it = is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, = some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of = support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can = be omitted. In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't = the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but = the request can't be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction = link". I think it is useful for operator to push some feature service = within its domian . How about it? =20 =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao _____ =20 Hi, John, =20 Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better = include network preconfigured multicast service which need = infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be = provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be = based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. =20 thanks for your discussion. =20 -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all =20 One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is = responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To = some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be = got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN = can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on = the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of = multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast = service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some = typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of = view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle = this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service = use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it = , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management = is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same = except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent = from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a = better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by = network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile = and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be = established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in = this case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either = PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this = request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is = expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd = party policy store is required.=20 =20 On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly = subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in = addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy = multicast mobility. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 john.zhao =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C93FE6.8D1A4C6A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear = John,

exactly = that’s what I wanted to say …

Thanks and = best regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Nachricht-----
Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. = November 2008 09:01
An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Betreff: RE: [multimob] = Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,Dirk

 

        Thanks for your explanation. See my = comments inline.

  &nbs= p;

  &nbs= p; Best Rgds,

Thanks,

john.zhao

Dear all,

Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on = the topic from an other operator’s viewpoint:

 

As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services = to Handhelds) standard for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on = a hybrid satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return = channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) – such it should allow for normal MLD = operation as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that provides = multicast support … - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV = subscription via IGMP/MLD.
[John.zhao] = ;So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for future,right?

 

Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN = does send an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly = addressed multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to = L3.
[John.zhao] = ;If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface in L2 to inform = about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send it = out if no return channel available?

 

I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include handover support (subscription on behalf = of MN to save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and = may cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB’s ESG - =  Electronic Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support services = such as authorisation keys for decoding content)
[John.zhao] = ;Yes. Agree. 

 

Best regards

Dirk =

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Nachricht-----
Von: = multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von John.zhao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. = November 2008 07:25
An: 'Hui Deng'
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Betreff: Re: [multimob] = Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,hui

 

  &nbs= p; Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following = comments.

  &nbs= p; You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because = we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just = like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it = is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another = side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node = want to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. It = is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for = operator to push some feature service within its domian .

  &nbs= p; How about it?

 

 

  &nbs= p; Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

 

john.zhao

Hi, = John,

 

Sorry for my = late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network = preconfigured multicast service which need infrastrucutre support.

What I could = remind is that normally such kind of service will be provided = by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV = mechanism like CMMB.

 

thanks for = your discussion.

 

-Hui

2008/10/24 = John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com><= /font>

Hello,Hui and = all

 

    One comments on section 3.1 = about "R2 - The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to = the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast = service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration = on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion = is no need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network = will:

 1.1)No = network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some typical service = should be managed from network side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a = TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too because it may = corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. = Without it , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario.
    From the architecture perspective, the support of = network management is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be = the same except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report = sent from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a = better scability.


    In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network = just like the following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's = profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, = then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, the = method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it.
     During handover, it will be very like current = design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, = a 3-rd party policy store is required.

 

    On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription = didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can = bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast = mobility.

 

    Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

john.zhao

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C93FE6.8D1A4C6A-- --===============1502713674== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1502713674==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 01:58:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8EC3A69E2; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:58:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3864E3A68B2 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:58:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.914 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.914 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.850, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8vq6cJQ5RSU5 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440793A69E2 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9W00185P1BR9@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:58:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.12]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9W00IBUP1BPI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:58:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.133]) by szxml05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0K9W002PTP1789@szxml05-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:58:23 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:58:18 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761C2@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> To: "'von Hugo, Dirk'" , denghui02@gmail.com Message-id: <014201c93ff6$322b8f30$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBAAAiH6tAAX0ouEAAAUt4wAAPODBA= Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1724523942==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1724523942== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_45+f9M/moXADJdE6eDOWLg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_45+f9M/moXADJdE6eDOWLg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Dirk =20 =20 In addition, why not set network to promiscuous mode, since the IGMP/MLD will not be sent to network? In that mode, application can got = all of packets sent to it and it can deal with them in application layer. Although that will make the development a little complict. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao =20 Dear John, exactly that=92s what I wanted to say =85 Thanks and best regards Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. November 2008 09:01 An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,Dirk =20 Thanks for your explanation. See my comments inline. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Dear all, Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic = from an other operator=92s viewpoint:=20 =20 As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) = should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard = for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) =96 such it should allow for normal MLD = operation as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that provides = multicast support =85 - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV = subscription via IGMP/MLD. [John.zhao] So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of IGMP/MLD is for future,right? =20 Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send = an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to L3. [John.zhao] If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface = in L2 to inform about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send it out if no return channel available? =20 I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to = save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB=92s ESG - Electronic = Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation keys for decoding content) [John.zhao] Yes. Agree.=20 =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von John.zhao Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 07:25 An: 'Hui Deng' Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,hui =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it = is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. = In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but the request can't = be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is = useful for operator to push some feature service within its domian . How about it? =20 =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao _____ =20 Hi, John, =20 Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured multicast service which need = infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be = provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. =20 thanks for your discussion. =20 -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all =20 One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is = responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on the request come = from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some = typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of view of = the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too = because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it = , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management = is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same = except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent from = MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile = and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, = the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or = MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is = expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd party = policy store is required.=20 =20 On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast mobility. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 john.zhao =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_45+f9M/moXADJdE6eDOWLg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,=20 Dirk
 
 
       &nbs= p;In addition, why = not set network to=20 promiscuous mode, since the IGMP/MLD will not be sent to network? In = that mode,=20 application can got all of packets sent to it and it can = deal with=20 them in application layer. Although that will make the=20 development a little complict.
 
       &nbs= p;Best = Rgds,
Thanks,   
 

john.zhao

 

Dear=20 John,

exactly = that=92s what I=20 wanted to say =85

Thanks and=20 best=20 regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: = John.zhao=20 [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. = November 2008=20 09:01
An: von Hugo, = Dirk;=20 denghui02@gmail.com
Cc:=20 multimob@ietf.org
Betreff:=20 RE: [multimob] Comments=20 ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,Dirk

 

       =20 Thanks for = your=20 explanation. See my comments inline.

   =20

   =20 Best Rgds,

Thanks,

john.zhao

Dear=20 all,

Not = directly=20 answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic from an other = operator=92s viewpoint:

 

As far as I = understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) should be = similar to=20 Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard for DVB = (digital=20 video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial = downlink=20 combined with a different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) =96 = such it=20 should allow for normal MLD operation as in MBMS (Multimedia=20 Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or 3GPP2 BCMCS = (Broadcast and=20 Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for = mobile, an=20 overlay to mobile networks that provides multicast support =85 - = furthermore=20 DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV subscription via=20 IGMP/MLD.
[John.zhao] So=20 inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for=20 future,right?

 

Concerning = pure DVB=20 there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send an MLD to the = interface=20 (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets = within DVB=20 stream are filtered and forwarded to L3.
[John.zhao] If=20 are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface in L2 to = inform about=20 related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send = it out if=20 no return channel available?

 

I agree = that operator=20 requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include = handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to save resources or = strengthen=20 the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or = management=20 services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to = subscribe to=20 such as DVB=92s ESG -  Electronic Servuice Guide or for=20 operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation = keys=20 for decoding content)
[John.zhao] Yes. Agree. 

 

Best=20 regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: = multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von = John.zhao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November = 2008=20 07:25
An: 'Hui=20 Deng'
Cc:=20 multimob@ietf.org
Betreff:=20 Re: [multimob] Comments=20 ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,hui

 

   =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following=20 comments.

   =20 You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the=20 receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because = we=20 didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system = just like=20 IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once = it is=20 ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another = side, the=20 DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile = node want=20 to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. = It is a=20 kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for operator to = push some=20 feature service within its domian .

   =20 How about it?

 

 

   =20 Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

 

john.zhao

Hi, = John,

 

Sorry for my late reply, = here you are=20 suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured = multicast=20 service which need infrastrucutre support.

What I could remind is that = normally=20 such kind of service will be provided by MBMS, BCMCS, = especially=20 mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism = like=20 CMMB.

 

thanks for your=20 discussion.

 

-Hui

2008/10/24 John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com><= /FONT>

Hello,Hui and=20 all

 

    = One comments on section 3.1 = about "R2 -=20 The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to the = multicast=20 group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this=20 subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration = on MAG.=20 I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the = subscribtion is no=20 need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN=20 initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's = network=20 will:

 1.1)No network = originated service=20 support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from = MN.But=20 in fact, there are still some typical service should be managed from = network=20 side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast = model. It is=20 worth to handle this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H = mobile TV=20 service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in = wireless=20 situation. Without it , we can save more resource not only during = handover=20 but also in network entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those = static=20 multicast tree scenario.
    From the architecture = perspective, the support of network management is the base of MN = management.=20 Since other signal flow will be the same except MAG need have the = ability to=20 deal with additional MLD report sent from MN.So it is no more = additional=20 cost on current design but bring a better = scability.


    In detail, the progress = of the=20 management of multicast service by network just like the=20 following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will = get the=20 MN's profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services = need to be=20 established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, = in this=20 case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either = PMIP=20 signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this = request=20 and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about=20 it.
     During handover, it will be very = like=20 current design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast = infomation=20 and if need, a 3-rd party policy store is required. =

 

    On = summary,=20 considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't = impact=20 on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can = bring a=20 scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast=20 mobility.

 

    = Best = Rgds,

Thanks,

 

john.zhao

 

 

--Boundary_(ID_45+f9M/moXADJdE6eDOWLg)-- --===============1724523942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1724523942==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 07:09:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989013A686A; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:09:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190E73A686A for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:09:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NrDF6CCrdajJ for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:09:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com [195.101.245.15]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1D43A6834 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:07:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:08:06 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20081101.144105.134221856.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt thread-index: Ack75HNzxqIrs/5QTRCn5zOd5hkHwgENCy0Q References: <4900E5A0.9050306@informatik.haw-hamburg.de><1d38a3350810312008x377ea91aw2739355335d2a207@mail.gmail.com><20081101.143137.247155156.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20081101.144105.134221856.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2008 15:07:58.0254 (UTC) FILETIME=[74171CE0:01C94021] Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hitoshi, Stating "All multicast traffic goes through an LMA-MAG tunnel" is probably = not an issue for short term deployment of multicast services. However I thi= nk we should not presume of the mid-term/long-term architecture and give op= tions allowing operators to envisage different architectures. It is not onl= y for local routing purpose; for instance, I guess we can imagine architect= ure reusing multicast IPTV backhaul for fixed network. In that case multica= st routing between MAG and LMA could make sense. = So, to conclude I think we should keep the option where the MAG may act as = a multicast router and not request the LMA to always be on the multicast de= livery path. Any thoughts of other people? Regards, Pierrick > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] De la > part de Hitoshi Asaeda > Envoy=E9=A0: samedi 1 novembre 2008 06:41 > =C0=A0: multimob@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement- > 01.txt > = > > So, I'd like to again ask the question especially to operators who > > plan to or may prepare PMIPv6 multicast services; Is there a big > > impact or problem if all multicast traffic goes through an LMA-MAG > > tunnel? > = > > Note that our PMIPv6 multicast extension draft tentatively supports > > the local routing, but I personally think it can be removed if > > consensus. > = > Well, it may not be necessary to completely remove the possibility > from the document, but specify "optional" as the minor case. Same for > the requirement draft. > -- > Hitoshi Asaeda > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 07:32:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80EE028C11B; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:32:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B27D28C118 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:32:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xCwnQ8boHXEk for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F8E28C117 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:32:20 -0800 (PST) Envelope-to: multimob@ietf.org Received: from e178143070.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.143.70] helo=[192.168.178.20]) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ky6pz-0007bl-VI; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:32:00 +0100 Message-ID: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:32:35 +0100 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com References: <4900E5A0.9050306@informatik.haw-hamburg.de><1d38a3350810312008x377ea91aw2739355335d2a207@mail.gmail.com><20081101.143137.247155156.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20081101.144105.134221856.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Pierrick, I closely agree with your statements - please see below: pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com wrote: > Stating "All multicast traffic goes through an LMA-MAG tunnel" is probabl= y not an issue for short term deployment of multicast services. However I t= hink we should not presume of the mid-term/long-term architecture and give = options allowing operators to envisage different architectures. It is not o= nly for local routing purpose; for instance, I guess we can imagine archite= cture reusing multicast IPTV backhaul for fixed network. In that case multi= cast routing between MAG and LMA could make sense. = > = > So, to conclude I think we should keep the option where the MAG may act a= s a multicast router and not request the LMA to always be on the multicast = delivery path. > = Multicast deployment in PMIPv6 via LMA -> MAG tunnels (these are 'n' = tunnels) is always a quick and simple, but fairly inefficient solution. = Of course we don't want to prevent this approach, but fixing PMIPv6 = multicast standards to this alone might not be really helpful in = practice. We should also be aware of MTU-size issues resulting from = tunnels at the receiver side. There are at least two reasonable alternatives: * LMA -> MAG point-to-multipoint tunnels, which increase distribution = efficiency, but still bear MTU-size issues * MAG as last-hop multicast router, with LMA being on the path or not. = As far as I can foresee, operators might be interested in using this = option, as - being aware of 'legitimate' multicast offers - they can = keep full control of multicast forwarding states & traffic. Best regards, Thomas >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] De la >> part de Hitoshi Asaeda >> Envoy=E9 : samedi 1 novembre 2008 06:41 >> =C0 : multimob@ietf.org >> Objet : Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement- >> 01.txt >> >>> So, I'd like to again ask the question especially to operators who >>> plan to or may prepare PMIPv6 multicast services; Is there a big >>> impact or problem if all multicast traffic goes through an LMA-MAG >>> tunnel? > = >>> Note that our PMIPv6 multicast extension draft tentatively supports >>> the local routing, but I personally think it can be removed if >>> consensus. >> Well, it may not be necessary to completely remove the possibility >> from the document, but specify "optional" as the minor case. Same for >> the requirement draft. >> -- >> Hitoshi Asaeda >> _______________________________________________ >> multimob mailing list >> multimob@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob -- = =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik =B0 University of Applied Sciences =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 07:50:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7D33A69E6; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:50:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D803A69E6 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:50:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id szjgwP-cHi7F for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail23.telekom.de (tcmail23.telekom.de [217.6.95.237]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DF33A68C1 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de (s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de [10.151.180.168]) by tcmail21.telekom.de with ESMTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:50:07 +0100 Received: from S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de ([10.151.229.14]) by s4de8psaans.mitte.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:50:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:50:06 +0100 Message-Id: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761C8@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <014201c93ff6$322b8f30$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt Thread-Index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBAAAiH6tAAX0ouEAAAUt4wAAPODBAADDs5kA== From: "von Hugo, Dirk" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2008 15:50:06.0720 (UTC) FILETIME=[572C6800:01C94027] Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1659765237==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1659765237== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C94027.56DC7862" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C94027.56DC7862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, do you mean that _all_ received packets will be forwarded by L2 to = application layer without any filtering? Additionally to complexity as = you already mentioned I think that may impose security concerns also ... = wouldn't it be more efficient if L2 could interprete IGMP/MLD such that = IP Multicast addresses are mapped to corresponding MAC addresses - and = thus L2 interface would forward only wanted traffic to higher layers? BTW this may be a marginal problem only for multimob. =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. November 2008 10:58 An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [multimob] Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi, Dirk =20 =20 In addition, why not set network to promiscuous mode, since the = IGMP/MLD will not be sent to network? In that mode, application can got = all of packets sent to it and it can deal with them in application = layer. Although that will make the development a little complict. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao =20 Dear John, exactly that's what I wanted to say ... Thanks and best regards Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. November 2008 09:01 An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [multimob] Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,Dirk =20 Thanks for your explanation. See my comments inline. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Dear all, Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic = from an other operator's viewpoint:=20 =20 As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) = should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) = standard for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid = satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return channel = (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) - such it should allow for normal MLD operation = as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an = approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that = provides multicast support ... - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will = include IPTV subscription via IGMP/MLD. [John.zhao] So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for future,right? =20 Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send = an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed = multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to L3. [John.zhao] If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface = in L2 to inform about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter = it and didn't send it out if no return channel available? =20 I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast = service would include handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to = save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and may = cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of = available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB's ESG - = Electronic Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support = services such as authorisation keys for decoding content) [John.zhao] Yes. Agree.=20 =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von John.zhao Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 07:25 An: 'Hui Deng' Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [multimob] Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,hui =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it = is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, = some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of = support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can = be omitted. In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't = the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but = the request can't be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction = link". I think it is useful for operator to push some feature service = within its domian . How about it? =20 =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao _____ =20 Hi, John, =20 Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better = include network preconfigured multicast service which need = infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be = provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be = based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. =20 thanks for your discussion. =20 -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all =20 One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is = responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To = some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be = got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN = can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on = the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of = multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast = service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some = typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of = view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle = this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service = use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it = , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management = is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same = except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent = from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a = better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by = network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile = and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be = established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in = this case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either = PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this = request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is = expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd = party policy store is required.=20 =20 On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly = subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in = addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy = multicast mobility. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 john.zhao =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C94027.56DC7862 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = John,

do you mean that = _all_ received packets will be forwarded by L2 to application layer without any = filtering? Additionally to complexity as you already mentioned I think that may impose security concerns also … wouldn’t it be more efficient if L2 could = interprete IGMP/MLD such that IP Multicast addresses are mapped to corresponding = MAC addresses =A0- and thus L2 interface would forward only wanted traffic = to higher layers?

BTW this may be = a marginal problem only for multimob.

 

Best regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Nachricht-----
Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. = November 2008 10:58
An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Betreff: RE: [multimob] = Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi, Dirk

 

 

       &nbs= p;In addition, why not set network to promiscuous = mode, since the IGMP/MLD will not be sent to network? In that mode, = application can got all of packets sent to it and it can deal with them in application layer. Although that will make the = development a little complict.

 

       &nbs= p;Best Rgds,

Thanks,   

 

john.zhao


 

Dear John,

exactly that’s what I wanted to say = …

Thanks and best = regards

Dirk =

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Nachricht-----
Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. = November 2008 09:01
An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Betreff: RE: [multimob] = Comments = ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,Dirk

 

        Thanks for your explanation. See my = comments inline.

  &nbs= p;

  &nbs= p; Best Rgds,

Thanks,

john.zhao

Dear all,

Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on = the topic from an other operator’s viewpoint:

 

As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services = to Handhelds) standard for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on = a hybrid satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return = channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) – such it should allow for normal MLD = operation as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that provides = multicast support … - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV = subscription via IGMP/MLD.
[John.zhao] = ;So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for future,right?

 

Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN = does send an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly = addressed multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to = L3.
[John.zhao] = ;If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface in L2 to inform = about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send it = out if no return channel available?

 

I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include handover support (subscription on behalf = of MN to save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and = may cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB’s ESG - =  Electronic Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support services = such as authorisation keys for decoding content)
[John.zhao] = ;Yes. Agree. 

 

Best regards

Dirk =

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Nachricht-----
Von: = multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von John.zhao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. = November 2008 07:25
An: 'Hui Deng'
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Betreff: Re: [multimob] = Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,hui

 

  &nbs= p; Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following = comments.

  &nbs= p; You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because = we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just = like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it = is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another = side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node = want to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. It = is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for = operator to push some feature service within its domian .

  &nbs= p; How about it?

 

 

  &nbs= p; Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

 

john.zhao

Hi, = John,

 

Sorry for my = late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network = preconfigured multicast service which need infrastrucutre support.

What I could = remind is that normally such kind of service will be provided = by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV = mechanism like CMMB.

 

thanks for = your discussion.

 

-Hui

2008/10/24 = John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com><= /font>

Hello,Hui and = all

 

    One comments on section 3.1 = about "R2 - The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to = the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast = service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration = on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the = subscribtion is no need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network = will:

 1.1)No = network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some typical service = should be managed from network side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a = TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too because it may = corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. = Without it , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario.
    From the architecture perspective, the support of = network management is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be = the same except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report = sent from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a = better scability.


    In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network = just like the following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's = profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, = then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, the = method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it.
     During handover, it will be very like current = design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, = a 3-rd party policy store is required.

 

    On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't = impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast = mobility.

 

    Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

john.zhao

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C94027.56DC7862-- --===============1659765237== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1659765237==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 07:53:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A243A69E6; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:53:05 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02ED53A69B5 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:53:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.559 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.342, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, SARE_RECV_IP_222000=1.508] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBsGNDh1Imnl for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1713A690D for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (KHP222006121211.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp [222.6.121.211]) by pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117D013D06C4; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:29:40 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:52:53 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> To: schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de From: Hitoshi Asaeda In-Reply-To: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> References: <20081101.144105.134221856.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2.54 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Thomas, Thanks for your comments. > There are at least two reasonable alternatives: > > * LMA -> MAG point-to-multipoint tunnels, which increase > distribution efficiency, but still bear MTU-size issues Seems interesting, but what is MTU-size issue here? > * MAG as last-hop multicast router, with LMA being on the path or > not. As far as I can foresee, operators might be interested in using > this option, as - being aware of 'legitimate' multicast offers - > they can keep full control of multicast forwarding states & > traffic. Why MAG, which is not working as a multicast router but MLD proxy, cannot control forwarding states and traffic? Thanks, -- Hitoshi Asaeda _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 08:08:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828913A69E6; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:08:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B6A3A69E6 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:08:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.52 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.132, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24, SARE_RECV_IP_222000=1.508] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S6hir48JZ5J8 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1DC3A6834 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (KHP222006121211.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp [222.6.121.211]) by pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B565913D03D6; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:16:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:39:54 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20081107.003954.92571478.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> To: pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com From: Hitoshi Asaeda In-Reply-To: References: <20081101.143137.247155156.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20081101.144105.134221856.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2.54 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Pierrick, > Stating "All multicast traffic goes through an LMA-MAG tunnel" is > probably not an issue for short term deployment of multicast > services. However I think we should not presume of the > mid-term/long-term architecture and give options allowing operators > to envisage different architectures. It is not only for local > routing purpose; for instance, I guess we can imagine architecture > reusing multicast IPTV backhaul for fixed network. In that case > multicast routing between MAG and LMA could make sense. If it is reasonable from operator's perspective, I'm happy to keep it as is. > So, to conclude I think we should keep the option where the MAG may > act as a multicast router and not request the LMA to always be on > the multicast delivery path. I understand. Thanks for your comment. Folks, other comments (either agree or disagree) would be always welcome. Thanks, -- Hitoshi Asaeda _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 08:13:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C663A6A38; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:13:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BA03A6A3A for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:13:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.620, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xzyGMp9tF8bs for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188D03A6A38 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:12:57 -0800 (PST) Envelope-to: multimob@ietf.org Received: from e178143070.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.143.70] helo=[192.168.178.20]) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ky7Sy-0006uU-K9; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:12:16 +0100 Message-ID: <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:12:54 +0100 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Asaeda References: <20081101.144105.134221856.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hitoshi, Hitoshi Asaeda wrote: >> There are at least two reasonable alternatives: >> >> * LMA -> MAG point-to-multipoint tunnels, which increase >> distribution efficiency, but still bear MTU-size issues > = > Seems interesting, but what is MTU-size issue here? > Just the regular MTU-size reduction from the tunnel overhead. >> * MAG as last-hop multicast router, with LMA being on the path or >> not. As far as I can foresee, operators might be interested in using >> this option, as - being aware of 'legitimate' multicast offers - >> they can keep full control of multicast forwarding states & >> traffic. > = > Why MAG, which is not working as a multicast router but MLD proxy, > cannot control forwarding states and traffic? > = Sorry, this was not precise: the regular MLD proxy function of course = does not provide an explicit group control. However, operators can = control multicast traffic distribution in their network and they could = prevent MAGs from implementing unwanted states by some ACL mechanism = (beyond MLD). Best regards, Thomas -- = =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik =B0 University of Applied Sciences =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 08:39:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF903A697D; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:39:26 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4293A697D for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:39:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.926 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.926 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.514, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, SARE_RECV_IP_222000=1.508] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QVwQ2y3c4u1o for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589043A6905 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (KHP222006121211.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp [222.6.121.211]) by pione.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D5C13D03D6; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:16:07 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:39:21 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20081107.013921.242149102.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> To: schmidt@informatik.haw-hamburg.de From: Hitoshi Asaeda In-Reply-To: <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> References: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2.54 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org > >> * LMA -> MAG point-to-multipoint tunnels, which increase > >> distribution efficiency, but still bear MTU-size issues > > Seems interesting, but what is MTU-size issue here? > > > Just the regular MTU-size reduction from the tunnel overhead. I got it. > >> * MAG as last-hop multicast router, with LMA being on the path or > >> not. As far as I can foresee, operators might be interested in using > >> this option, as - being aware of 'legitimate' multicast offers - > >> they can keep full control of multicast forwarding states & > >> traffic. > > Why MAG, which is not working as a multicast router but MLD proxy, > > cannot control forwarding states and traffic? > > Sorry, this was not precise: the regular MLD proxy function of > course does not provide an explicit group control. However, > operators can control multicast traffic distribution in their > network and they could prevent MAGs from implementing unwanted > states by some ACL mechanism (beyond MLD). I think it would be possible for an MLD proxy to implement some ACL mechanism without the protocol modification. But anyway, discussing such requirement is useful. Thanks. -- Hitoshi Asaeda _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 09:02:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 102B33A6A53; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:02:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9AD03A6A53 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:02:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.939 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.939 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.310, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PG0cIbnpIq6a for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D033A6834 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:02:31 -0800 (PST) Envelope-to: multimob@ietf.org Received: from e178143070.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.143.70] helo=[192.168.178.20]) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ky8FT-000CRn-Cf; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:02:23 +0100 Message-ID: <49132333.3020403@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:02:43 +0100 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Asaeda References: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.013921.242149102.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20081107.013921.242149102.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hitoshi Asaeda wrote: >>> Why MAG, which is not working as a multicast router but MLD proxy, >>> cannot control forwarding states and traffic? >> Sorry, this was not precise: the regular MLD proxy function of >> course does not provide an explicit group control. However, >> operators can control multicast traffic distribution in their >> network and they could prevent MAGs from implementing unwanted >> states by some ACL mechanism (beyond MLD). > = > I think it would be possible for an MLD proxy to implement some ACL > mechanism without the protocol modification. > But anyway, discussing such requirement is useful. Thanks. Sure - this was not proposing to extend protocol. Just a discussion of = possible deployment scenarios ... and operator options. Regards, Thomas -- = =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik =B0 University of Applied Sciences =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 17:41:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B907A3A6ABC; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:41:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86B43A6983 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:41:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.323, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zrmKlkYDBAEa for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882523A68BB for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9X006F9WOGCQ@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:41:04 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K9X00G92WOGPW@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:41:04 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.133]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0K9X00BWHWOBVU@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:41:04 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:40:52 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761C8@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> To: "'von Hugo, Dirk'" , denghui02@gmail.com Message-id: <007401c94079$e2be69c0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ack7xNYy/ZnlBZMDQwml8H81vi1WxgCgPMBAAAiH6tAAX0ouEAAAUt4wAAPODBAADDs5kAATxBPQ Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1153681030==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1153681030== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_vdVGpP2ZWGNQmR5AQvl3eQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_vdVGpP2ZWGNQmR5AQvl3eQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi,Dirk =20 If will the netcard be set as promiscuous mode, the user need do the filter program by itself. And some this kind of program can be set up by user freely, such as wireshark etc. From network, we can't prevent it. = To security, it is not a big problem, since transport and application = security mechanism can gurantee about it. Even if some encoded packets are = captured, it can't be decoded normally without the relevant SAs.=20 In addition, this mode is worst in shared-link. In that case, those broadcast or packets for others can be got by this host. So if = promiscuous is set , so many un-related will make the application on this host = trouble. On the contrary , to p2p link , since all of packets destined to this = host is filtered and controled by MAG. So basically, those packets should be handled by this host. Thus, receive them didn't waste any other = resources. >From performance perspective, I think it is the same as APIs provided by = os. To my understand, it can be used to those p2p kind of link , and uni-direction link seems also belong to this scope. So, can it also applicable to DVB-H style network? =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao =20 Hi John, do you mean that _all_ received packets will be forwarded by L2 to application layer without any filtering? Additionally to complexity as = you already mentioned I think that may impose security concerns also =85 = wouldn=92t it be more efficient if L2 could interprete IGMP/MLD such that IP = Multicast addresses are mapped to corresponding MAC addresses - and thus L2 = interface would forward only wanted traffic to higher layers? BTW this may be a marginal problem only for multimob. =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. November 2008 10:58 An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi, Dirk =20 =20 In addition, why not set network to promiscuous mode, since the IGMP/MLD will not be sent to network? In that mode, application can got = all of packets sent to it and it can deal with them in application layer. Although that will make the development a little complict. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao =20 Dear John, exactly that=92s what I wanted to say =85 Thanks and best regards Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: John.zhao [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. November 2008 09:01 An: von Hugo, Dirk; denghui02@gmail.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: RE: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,Dirk =20 Thanks for your explanation. See my comments inline. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Dear all, Not directly answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic = from an other operator=92s viewpoint:=20 =20 As far as I understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) = should be similar to Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard = for DVB (digital video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial downlink combined with a different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) =96 such it should allow for normal MLD = operation as in MBMS (Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or = 3GPP2 BCMCS (Broadcast and Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for mobile, an overlay to mobile networks that provides = multicast support =85 - furthermore DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV = subscription via IGMP/MLD. [John.zhao] So inteactive return channel is optional and the support of IGMP/MLD is for future,right? =20 Concerning pure DVB there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send = an MLD to the interface (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets within DVB stream are filtered and forwarded to L3. [John.zhao] If are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface = in L2 to inform about related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send it out if no return channel available? =20 I agree that operator requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to = save resources or strengthen the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or management services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to subscribe to such as DVB=92s ESG - Electronic = Servuice Guide or for operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation keys for decoding content) [John.zhao] Yes. Agree.=20 =20 Best regards=20 Dirk=20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von John.zhao Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 07:25 An: 'Hui Deng' Cc: multimob@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt =20 Hi,hui =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it = is because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. = In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but the request can't = be sent to network. It is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is = useful for operator to push some feature service within its domian . How about it? =20 =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 =20 john.zhao _____ =20 Hi, John, =20 Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured multicast service which need = infrastrucutre support. What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be = provided by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. =20 thanks for your discussion. =20 -Hui 2008/10/24 John.zhao Hello,Hui and all =20 One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is = responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on the request come = from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's network will: 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some = typical service should be managed from network side.From the point of view of = the MN it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too = because it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case. 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it = , we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network = entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree = scenario. From the architecture perspective, the support of network management = is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same = except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent from = MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a better scability. In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by network just like the following: When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile = and will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, = the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or = MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about it. During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is = expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd party = policy store is required.=20 =20 On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast mobility. =20 Best Rgds, Thanks, =20 john.zhao =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_vdVGpP2ZWGNQmR5AQvl3eQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,Dirk
 
    If will the netcard be set as promiscuous mode, = the user=20 need do the filter program by itself. And some this kind of program can = be set=20 up by user freely, such as wireshark etc. From network, we can't prevent = it. To=20 security, it is not a big problem, since transport and application = security=20 mechanism can gurantee about it. Even if some encoded packets are = captured, it=20 can't be decoded normally without the relevant SAs.=20
    In addition, this mode is worst in shared-link. = In that=20 case, those broadcast or packets for others can be got by this host. So = if=20 promiscuous is set , so many un-related will make the application on = this host=20 trouble. On the contrary , to p2p link , since all of packets destined = to this=20 host is filtered and controled by MAG. So basically, those packets = should be=20 handled by this host. Thus, receive them didn't waste any other = resources. From=20 performance perspective, I think it is the same as APIs provided by=20 os.
    To my understand, it can be used to those p2p = kind of link=20 , and uni-direction link seems also belong to this scope. So, can it = also=20 applicable to DVB-H style network?
 
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,
 
   

john.zhao

 

Hi=20 John,

do you mean = that=20 _all_ received packets will be forwarded by L2 to application layer = without=20 any filtering? Additionally to complexity as you already mentioned I = think=20 that may impose security concerns also =85 wouldn=92t it be more = efficient if L2=20 could interprete IGMP/MLD such that IP Multicast addresses are mapped = to=20 corresponding MAC addresses  - and thus L2 interface would = forward only=20 wanted traffic to higher layers?

BTW this = may be a=20 marginal problem only for multimob.

 

Best = regards=20

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: = John.zhao=20 [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. = November 2008=20 10:58
An: von Hugo, = Dirk;=20 denghui02@gmail.com
Cc:=20 multimob@ietf.org
Betreff:=20 RE: [multimob] Comments=20 ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,=20 Dirk

 

 

        In=20 addition, why not set network to promiscuous mode, since the = IGMP/MLD will not be sent to network? In that mode, application = can got=20 all of packets sent to it and it can deal with them in = application layer.=20 Although that will make the development a little=20 complict.

 

        Best=20 Rgds,

Thanks,   =20

 

john.zhao


 

Dear=20 John,

exactly = that=92s what I=20 wanted to say =85

Thanks and=20 best=20 regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: = John.zhao=20 [mailto:john.zhao@huawei.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. = November 2008=20 09:01
An: von Hugo, = Dirk;=20 denghui02@gmail.com
Cc:=20 multimob@ietf.org
Betreff:=20 RE: [multimob] Comments=20 ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,Dirk

 

       =20 Thanks for = your=20 explanation. See my comments inline.

   =20

   =20 Best Rgds,

Thanks,

john.zhao

Dear=20 all,

Not = directly=20 answering the threads but rather commenting on the topic from an other = operator=92s viewpoint:

 

As far as I = understand it CMMB (China Multimedia Mobile Broadcasting) should be = similar to=20 Europe's DVB-SH (Satellite services to Handhelds) standard for DVB = (digital=20 video broadcast) which is based on a hybrid satellite/terrestrial = downlink=20 combined with a different return channel (e.g. via WLAN or 2G/3G) =96 = such it=20 should allow for normal MLD operation as in MBMS (Multimedia=20 Broadcast/Multicast Service) within 3GPP/UMTS or 3GPP2 BCMCS = (Broadcast and=20 Multicast Services) which provides an approach to multicast for = mobile, an=20 overlay to mobile networks that provides multicast support =85 - = furthermore=20 DVB-IP Phase 1.3 will include IPTV subscription via=20 IGMP/MLD.
[John.zhao] So=20 inteactive return channel is optional and the support of = IGMP/MLD is for=20 future,right?

 

Concerning = pure DVB=20 there is an assumption that L3 at the MN does send an MLD to the = interface=20 (L2.x) such that the correspondingly addressed multicast packets = within DVB=20 stream are filtered and forwarded to L3.
[John.zhao] If=20 are you mean that MN will send MLD from L3 to interface in L2 to = inform about=20 related multicast address etc . But L2 may filter it and didn't send = it out if=20 no return channel available?

 

I agree = that operator=20 requirements for network preconfigured multicast service would include = handover support (subscription on behalf of MN to save resources or = strengthen=20 the unreliable message transport) and may cover specific control or = management=20 services (e.g. notification of available multicast streams to = subscribe to=20 such as DVB=92s ESG -  Electronic Servuice Guide or for=20 operator-distributed additional support services such as authorisation = keys=20 for decoding content)
[John.zhao] Yes. Agree. 

 

Best=20 regards

Dirk 

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: = multimob-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:multimob-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von = John.zhao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November = 2008=20 07:25
An: 'Hui=20 Deng'
Cc:=20 multimob@ietf.org
Betreff:=20 Re: [multimob] Comments=20 ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt

 

Hi,hui

 

   =20 Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following=20 comments.

   =20 You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to = trigger the=20 receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is because = we=20 didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some system = just like=20 IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via layer-2, once = it is=20 ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. In another = side, the=20 DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , so even mobile = node want=20 to send the joining request, but the request can't be sent to network. = It is a=20 kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for operator to = push some=20 feature service within its domian .

   =20 How about it?

 

 

   =20 Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

 

john.zhao

Hi, = John,

 

Sorry for my late reply, = here you are=20 suggesting that we would better include network preconfigured = multicast=20 service which need infrastrucutre support.

What I could remind is that = normally=20 such kind of service will be provided by MBMS, BCMCS, = especially=20 mobile TV service they also could be based on dedicated TV mechanism = like=20 CMMB.

 

thanks for your=20 discussion.

 

-Hui

2008/10/24 John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com><= /FONT>

Hello,Hui and=20 all

 

    = One comments on section 3.1 = about "R2 -=20 The mobile node is responsible for initially subscribing to the = multicast=20 group(s)." . To some network control multicast service, this=20 subscribtion info can be got from policy store or pre-configuration = on MAG.=20 I don't object MN can't initiate the subscribtion,but the = subscribtion is no=20 need rely on the request come from MN only. With only MN=20 initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the operator's = network=20 will:

 1.1)No network = originated service=20 support. All of any kind of multicast service will be initiated from = MN.But=20 in fact, there are still some typical service should be managed from = network=20 side.From the point of view of the MN it is like a TV broadcast = model. It is=20 worth to handle this case too because it may corresponds to DVB-H = mobile TV=20 service use-case.
 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in = wireless=20 situation. Without it , we can save more resource not only during = handover=20 but also in network entry progress. Espically, it is useful to those = static=20 multicast tree scenario.
    From the architecture = perspective, the support of network management is the base of MN = management.=20 Since other signal flow will be the same except MAG need have the = ability to=20 deal with additional MLD report sent from MN.So it is no more = additional=20 cost on current design but bring a better = scability.


    In detail, the progress = of the=20 management of multicast service by network just like the=20 following:
 When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will = get the=20 MN's profile and will know some pre-configured multicast services = need to be=20 established, then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, = in this=20 case, the method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either = PMIP=20 signals or MLD report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this = request=20 and do the decision based on it's acknowledges about=20 it.
     During handover, it will be very = like=20 current design. The CXT is expect to provide necessary multicast = infomation=20 and if need, a 3-rd party policy store is required. =

 

    On = summary,=20 considering and allowing network administrativly subscription didn't = impact=20 on anything current we have considered and in addition , it can = bring a=20 scalability to current requirement of proxy multicast=20 mobility.

 

    = Best = Rgds,

Thanks,

 

john.zhao

 

 

--Boundary_(ID_vdVGpP2ZWGNQmR5AQvl3eQ)-- --===============1153681030== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1153681030==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 9 07:48:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C32063A6931; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:48:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8595A3A6931 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:48:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.26 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_53=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q5+UdzFf6QEh for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.232]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52EC43A67CC for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so2009757rvf.49 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:47:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=/iuvxWdGXZ2t4kCfq7njvLF0FpcU8cdXmW0oWnuPvLE=; b=v4HfClpSuKzHP6z74f36cj5mAUcQvKXVzZESq4r7AQT+0sYpKrnlHQ0cq0WFP+8nUc RHefmsVnbys2+d+7tt04uqJC6pOyLGC8uxluSti2aqeyRD3jh+euP+YSbHnCMu1UQtso gIy/DHEjNz6o0SCwMxh1ug+fLA/jXhDcIU0Is= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=uHVK4o9t6KY7ya1Boilb25UFQO3vvqltzG/G0DKCqgcI+Gtn633QAURxBrQl9/sTF9 LpqQeI6igw4gBRCtihP6GssdLZAg0urzFfG6N2HxQ/HcNAhZLmMZqFIeIfspa2pfGDUj XyCJZR+qrU1VeJkZBLulI+8yS/GKRJlZxA46g= Received: by 10.114.89.1 with SMTP id m1mr3365311wab.35.1226245676967; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.17.8 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:47:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1d38a3350811090747k273a6600pa02e6b686abc0c40@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 23:47:56 +0800 From: "Hui Deng" To: john.zhao@huawei.com In-Reply-To: <012101c93e46$129928f0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1d38a3350810311849g5aafb87x727bc2a799a2a247@mail.gmail.com> <012101c93e46$129928f0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments on draft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0459262848==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0459262848== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26962_29003447.1226245676947" ------=_Part_26962_29003447.1226245676947 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, John, sorry for my late reply, inline 2008/11/4 John.zhao > Hi,hui > > Forget to post the reply in maillist. See following comments. > You are right. They are all need MN to send the request to join to > trigger the receive of multicast except the CMMB , I'm not sure. But it is > because we didn't have other methods to be used before. Currently, some > system just like IEEE802.16 is discussing about this kind of support via > layer-2, once it is ready, then the joinging in layer-3 can be omitted. > what kind of support layer-2, if you are talking about layer-2, it means something happened between network and mobile. > In another side, the DVB-H is another case, since it havn't the uplink , > so even mobile node want to send the joining request, but the request can't > be sent to network. > DVB-H will not use proxy MIP6, right? > It is a kind of "uni-direction link". I think it is useful for operator > to push some feature service within its domian . > How about it? > > I will try to reply based on below email, -Hui > > Best Rgds, > Thanks, > > > > john.zhao > ------------------------------ > Hi, John, > > > Sorry for my late reply, here you are suggesting that we would better > include network preconfigured multicast service which need infrastrucutre > support. > What I could remind is that normally such kind of service will be provided > by MBMS, BCMCS, especially mobile TV service they also could be based on > dedicated TV mechanism like CMMB. > > thanks for your discussion. > > -Hui > 2008/10/24 John.zhao > >> Hello,Hui and all >> >> One comments on section 3.1 about "R2 - The mobile node is >> responsible for initially subscribing to the multicast group(s)." . To some >> network control multicast service, this subscribtion info can be got from >> policy store or pre-configuration on MAG. I don't object MN can't initiate >> the subscribtion,but the subscribtion is no need rely on the request come >> from MN only. With only MN initiated subscription of multicast group(s),the >> operator's network will: >> 1.1)No network originated service support. All of any kind of multicast >> service will be initiated from MN.But in fact, there are still some typical >> service should be managed from network side.From the point of view of the MN >> it is like a TV broadcast model. It is worth to handle this case too because >> it may corresponds to DVB-H mobile TV service use-case. >> 1.2)Cost additional wireless resource in wireless situation. Without it , >> we can save more resource not only during handover but also in network entry >> progress. Espically, it is useful to those static multicast tree scenario. >> From the architecture perspective, the support of network management >> is the base of MN management. Since other signal flow will be the same >> except MAG need have the ability to deal with additional MLD report sent >> from MN.So it is no more additional cost on current design but bring a >> better scability. >> >> In detail, the progress of the management of multicast service by >> network just like the following: >> When the MN just attachs to a MAG, the MAG will get the MN's profile and >> will know some pre-configured multicast services need to be established, >> then it will ask LMA to provide the respective service, in this case, the >> method used to communicate to LMA from MAG can be either PMIP signals or MLD >> report(join) messages etc. LMA will check about this request and do the >> decision based on it's acknowledges about it. >> During handover, it will be very like current design. The CXT is >> expect to provide necessary multicast infomation and if need, a 3-rd party >> policy store is required. >> >> On summary, considering and allowing network administrativly >> subscription didn't impact on anything current we have considered and in >> addition , it can bring a scalability to current requirement of proxy >> multicast mobility. >> >> Best Rgds, >> Thanks, >> >> >> john.zhao >> >> > > ------=_Part_26962_29003447.1226245676947 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline PGRpdj5IaSwgSm9obiw8L2Rpdj4KPGRpdj4mbmJzcDs8L2Rpdj4KPGRpdj5zb3JyeSBmb3IgbXkg bGF0ZSByZXBseSwgaW5saW5lIDxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+CjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3Rl Ij4yMDA4LzExLzQgSm9obi56aGFvIDxzcGFuIGRpcj0ibHRyIj4mbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRv OmpvaG4uemhhb0BodWF3ZWkuY29tIj5qb2huLnpoYW9AaHVhd2VpLmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7PC9zcGFu Pjxicj4KPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIiBzdHlsZT0iUEFERElORy1MRUZU 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text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0459262848==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 9 07:52:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1048E3A6847; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:52:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306233A6847 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:52:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.86 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_NO_MORE_ADS=1.174, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_53=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L3Y1gpowN8OT for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409D73A67CC for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so1037389wag.5 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:52:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=aQU5nGIywsC1MjKjm8p5v1Ieep5t9SQEl6rO0JZvsrs=; b=cVqMj6MQW89CxPWdL0M5Xu0OKrFcv+qntCJHcmKJ1JhQEJ8EsEC9tvp/DRNIXPSPfE 7I+iWJ/PHx/6bmD19PctKkOZbwqZPnqTz2kqXuCjPD2GVvlUpjLbnyXbZFS+pB5ou6j9 dPziMvtiP0QuizlNQrFwsfnFWXFJZpJjax670= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=TKPOphg3Xx8bEnVl+NDTEOWLd8Bx28juYm3sLr8eLvyKL2oOq6qQlqBlxgBQliWzbB BkhjWNHUbVUHpt/Yf8Y4e0y2BqlT7MQp1efctJTgKhDoJIO5cI8BsO5LwzE9+KzsTA/C e8XE1B699iB1Lhnljt8cL0ZKMHOQE2IZ0JdbU= Received: by 10.114.210.2 with SMTP id i2mr3369145wag.47.1226245966068; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.17.8 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:52:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1d38a3350811090752s33d11b40jf8e7692300050b18@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 23:52:45 +0800 From: "Hui Deng" To: john.zhao@huawei.com In-Reply-To: <007401c94079$e2be69c0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <643B0A1D1A13AB498304E0BBC80278481761C8@S4DE8PSAAQC.mitte.t-com.de> <007401c94079$e2be69c0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Cc: "von Hugo, Dirk" , multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1872569113==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1872569113== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26984_18574905.1226245966042" ------=_Part_26984_18574905.1226245966042 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline SGksIERpcmsgYW5kIEpvaG4KCnRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24uCgpJZiB3ZSBzZXQg aXQgYXMgcHJvbWlzY3VvdXMgbW9kZSwgdGhlbiBzb21ldGhpbmcgc21hcnQgaGFzIHRvIGJlIGRv bmUgaW4gdGhlCmNsaWVudCBzaWRlLAp0aGVuIHdlIGNvdWxkbid0IGNhbGwgaXQgcHVyZSBuZXR3 b3JrIHN1cHBvcnQgd2l0aG91dCBjbGllbnQgaW52b2x2ZW1lbnQuCgpmb3Igd2lyZXNoYXJrLCB3 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1872569113==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 9 07:59:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A583A6981; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:59:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0763A6981 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:59:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.369 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.369 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ItA+mWMOS2ZA for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.232]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221853A67CC for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so2012832rvf.49 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:59:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=xeEE5+mSnh76OF8g3TG2SDPm4w8iMNnyoX950RPUAZw=; b=FCgmqy+6UeMxAEB3gRrv//7Y2NLBITZLKTzMwhqdMqlsSLI9hX+BDmUb4gPZcBNo5z Z6JqvngcvBHoXyNOeWNjXJ6yXHiRovIIM6/1vgMW7w/foMCNnccF+N/ikiA7A/bsQ8mZ zmwXoe81mMyhQkle/2hbtRu2FT7dCtWj1tKvM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=eQ5/XmOFq8ZvkwOsX5enOl48/pQMfa1KJuFs88GI/WSBAgMBrd+jwEFMUM8mkgvOBQ up2Qh6f4CWRS+vqfYE4Pm9FEfO4NIPU9MyO9DOKZaL2QzzTF8BK5gf0yGLk4MlRfqqd3 fvHUTvXX8UGvjHCVUs8juTviY6TagiYYb2l5o= Received: by 10.114.25.19 with SMTP id 19mr3374785way.89.1226246376819; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.17.8 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1d38a3350811090759n146c643jb709781328bd4c33@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 23:59:36 +0800 From: "Hui Deng" To: "Thomas C. Schmidt" In-Reply-To: <49132333.3020403@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.013921.242149102.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49132333.3020403@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0092082199==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0092082199== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_27008_4373706.1226246376816" ------=_Part_27008_4373706.1226246376816 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi, Thomas, I would agree this scenario, as I asked before, it will not extend any protocol, only description of functionality of network entity, maybe more implementation issue. then my question here is do we need keep this a specific scenario figure in our draft? thanks again. -Hui 2008/11/7 Thomas C. Schmidt > Hitoshi Asaeda wrote: > >> Why MAG, which is not working as a multicast router but MLD proxy, >>>> cannot control forwarding states and traffic? >>>> >>> Sorry, this was not precise: the regular MLD proxy function of >>> course does not provide an explicit group control. However, >>> operators can control multicast traffic distribution in their >>> network and they could prevent MAGs from implementing unwanted >>> states by some ACL mechanism (beyond MLD). >>> >> >> I think it would be possible for an MLD proxy to implement some ACL >> mechanism without the protocol modification. >> But anyway, discussing such requirement is useful. Thanks. >> > > Sure - this was not proposing to extend protocol. Just a discussion of > possible deployment scenarios ... and operator options. > > Regards, > > Thomas > -- > > =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt > =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik > =B0 University of Applied Sciences > =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany > =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 > =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > ------=_Part_27008_4373706.1226246376816 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi, Thomas,
 
I would agree this scenario,
as I asked before, it will not extend any protocol, only description o= f functionality of network entity, maybe more implementation issue.
 
then my question here is do we need keep this a specific scenario= figure in our draft?
 
thanks again.
 
-Hui

2008/11/7 Thomas C. Schmidt &l= t;schmidt@informatik.h= aw-hamburg.de>
Hitoshi Asaeda wrote:
Why MAG, which is not working as= a multicast router but MLD proxy,
cannot control forwarding states and = traffic?
Sorry, this was not precise: the regular MLD proxy function of=
course does not provide an explicit group control. However,
operator= s can control multicast traffic distribution in their
network and they c= ould prevent MAGs from implementing unwanted
states by some ACL mechanism (beyond MLD).

I think it w= ould be possible for an MLD proxy to implement some ACL
mechanism withou= t the protocol modification.
But anyway, discussing such requirement is = useful. Thanks.

Sure - this was not proposing to extend protocol. Ju= st a discussion of possible deployment scenarios ... and operator options.= =20


Regards,

Thomas
--

=B0 Prof= . Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt
=B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik
=B0 Univers= ity of Applied Sciences
=B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany
= =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409
=B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt
_________________= ______________________________

------=_Part_27008_4373706.1226246376816-- --===============0092082199== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0092082199==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 9 08:44:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA5B3A6883; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:44:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0A13A6883 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:44:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H0pz1Ex+Z25T for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41F33A6774 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:44:12 -0800 (PST) Envelope-to: multimob@ietf.org Received: from e178182193.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.182.193] helo=[192.168.178.20]) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KzDOS-000Nch-4p; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 17:44:08 +0100 Message-ID: <49171351.9050909@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 17:44:01 +0100 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hui Deng References: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.013921.242149102.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49132333.3020403@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <1d38a3350811090759n146c643jb709781328bd4c33@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1d38a3350811090759n146c643jb709781328bd4c33@mail.gmail.com> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments ondraft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hui, Hui Deng wrote: > I would agree this scenario, > as I asked before, it will not extend any protocol, only description of = > functionality of network entity, maybe more implementation issue. > = > then my question here is do we need keep this a specific scenario figure = > in our draft? > I guess yes: may be we even should add a third scenario with the LMA on = path ... the objective being a helpful sketch of the scenarios we = operate in. Best regards, Thomas > 2008/11/7 Thomas C. Schmidt > > = > Hitoshi Asaeda wrote: > = > Why MAG, which is not working as a multicast router but > MLD proxy, > cannot control forwarding states and traffic? > = > Sorry, this was not precise: the regular MLD proxy function of > course does not provide an explicit group control. However, > operators can control multicast traffic distribution in their > network and they could prevent MAGs from implementing unwanted > states by some ACL mechanism (beyond MLD). > = > = > I think it would be possible for an MLD proxy to implement some A= CL > mechanism without the protocol modification. > But anyway, discussing such requirement is useful. Thanks. > = > = > Sure - this was not proposing to extend protocol. Just a discussion > of possible deployment scenarios ... and operator options. > = > = > Regards, > = > Thomas > -- = > = > =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt > =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik > =B0 University of Applied Sciences > =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany > =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 > =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > = > = -- = =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik =B0 University of Applied Sciences =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany =B0 Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 11 14:02:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1AB3A68C8; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9CB3A68C8 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.856 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.856 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.742, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Erkxkj1tJbD for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.98]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C0DE13A686B for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 8258 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Nov 2008 22:02:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=qL+eCIUVcXBZ5Esxi6bs0AA5pH3yEJf8pG7N4B0U3Ng/q/amOd75ZGzASekzAclAnFXcJo5epHNRDuVisshdu+3163I6lxjLJW+s76K7zrOwavJ3/gKQrbl4u3T98fnchtzLiLeYlsQTZTktHBFb/bm9Cn0+7BDYsILW3q6/Ing=; X-YMail-OSG: iUCGsdsVM1nYJVRUBGp7id05OuiBISgBCrH.LVPexYWH8lH7.p2C0G_DFzOd34GBNoyzCTetgrjVHorCjTuPdyqGyNRQihkyUhstltoHA69e8gfQmsF76nVK5.wSImzd0Tv15O02rlevlxVg4Br_uePTH669oG5VxmW8CznFiQ.VIsY- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:41 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 References: <007a01c93ee9$b1e61dc0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: john.zhao@huawei.com, pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <670977.8120.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0467664983==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0467664983== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1396824481-1226440961=:8120" --0-1396824481-1226440961=:8120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi John, Pierrick, I read this draft and have a few comments. I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate in MLDv2 signaling. In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312 should be RFC 5213. Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost same, why? Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically. Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to do? There are many other typos in the draft that I could not list them all here. Regards, Behcet ________________________________ From: John.zhao To: Behcet Sarikaya Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution Hi,Behcet Reference the following link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution-02.txt john.zhao ________________________________ Hi John, I still cannot access your draft. ________________________________ Hi,behcet Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-) Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Hi John, I think you forgot to follow the link given below and because of that your new draft has still not been submitted. We do have 00 version online. Regards, Behcet ________________________________ Hi,all Following is the draft for pmipv6-based mobility multicast, welcome comments or correct if something is not right. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao > draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution > > Please follow the link below to complete your I-D submission. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=ikQAu > RlrfmZTNLMnFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=10344 > > Please note that if you do not follow the link above by > 2008-11-03, then this submission will be canceled and your > Internet-Draft will be permanently removed from the staging area. > > The IETF Secretariat. > _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --0-1396824481-1226440961=:8120 Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi John, Pierrick,
  I read this draft and have a= few comments.
I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering th= e multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate i= n MLDv2 signaling.

In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312= should be RFC 5213.

Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost sam= e, why?
Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and down= stream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically.
Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what= WiMAX Forum is trying to do?

There are many other typos in the draf= t that I could not list them all here.

Regards,

Behcet

From: John.zhao <jo= hn.zhao@huawei.com>
To:<= /b> Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM
Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D = Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution
<= br>=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A= =0A=0A
Hi,Behcet
=0A
 
=0A=0A
 
=0A

=0A

joh= n.zhao
=0A
 

=0A
=0A = =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A <= div>Hi John,
  I still cannot access your draft.
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A=0A
Hi,behce= t
=0A
 
=0A     Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry= for my =0A inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-)
=0A
    Best Rgds,=0A
Thanks,
=0A
 
=0A

=0A

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D";*NDO8:Z">john.zhao
=0A =
=0A

 
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi John,
&= nbsp; I think you forgot to follow the link given below =0A
and because o= f that your new draft has still not been =0A submitted.
We do have 0= 0 version =0A online.

Regards,

Behcet
=0A
=0A=
=0A
=0A
= Hi,all

    Following is the draft for =0A pmipv6-b= ased mobility multicast, welcome
comments or correct if something =0A = is not right.

    Best =0A Rgds,
Thanks,

john.zhao
> =0A draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution
> <= br>> Please follow the link =0A below to complete your I-D submission= .
>
> https://datatracker= .ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=3DikQAu
> =0A RlrfmZTNLM= nFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=3D10344
>
> Please =0A = note that if you do not follow the link above by
> 2008-11-03, then = =0A this submission will be canceled and your
> Internet-Draft wi= ll be =0A permanently removed from the staging area.
>
> Th= e IETF =0A Secretariat.
> =0A


_____________________= __________________________
multimob =0A mailing list
multimob@ietf.org
https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob



=0A=0A --0-1396824481-1226440961=:8120-- --===============0467664983== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0467664983==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 11 19:22:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CB23A6AB3; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:22:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6963A6AB3 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.99 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.99 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DOqd0qLAbPCZ for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CEA3A6AAF for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KA70086CAPPVI@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:22:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.12]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KA700EEJAPPUL@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:22:37 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.133]) by szxml05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KA7007XZAPMJ6@szxml05-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:22:37 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:22:34 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <670977.8120.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: 'Behcet Sarikaya' , pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com Message-id: <008c01c94475$e7b08ee0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AclESSyzkgwjoP5HTaeQBbcbHHSpJQAKVRyQ Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1093122096==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1093122096== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_J5M/E86WTeV3wqoK3CZGDg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_J5M/E86WTeV3wqoK3CZGDg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi,Behcet Thanks for your review. See my comments inline. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Hi John, Pierrick, I read this draft and have a few comments. I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate in MLDv2 signaling. [John.zhao] In some sense, it is exactly. But we just try to describ the solution from MAG but not MN. And, it just describs the architecture which can support both of the two cases that MN with MLDv2 signaling or not. In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312 should be RFC 5213. [John.zhao] Sorry. Thanks. Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost same, why? [John.zhao] We will append some additional words to explain the difference. Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically. [John.zhao] Thanks. Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to do? [John.zhao] Maybe, but how do you think? Not sure if some foreign reference need to be appended at here. Currently, there is really some discussions and documents related to it in IEEE802.16m. There are many other typos in the draft that I could not list them all here. [John.zhao] Thanks. We will fix them in next version. Thanks again. Regards, Behcet _____ From: John.zhao To: Behcet Sarikaya Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution Hi,Behcet Reference the following link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution-02.tx t john.zhao _____ Hi John, I still cannot access your draft. _____ Hi,behcet Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-) Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Hi John, I think you forgot to follow the link given below and because of that your new draft has still not been submitted. We do have 00 version online. Regards, Behcet _____ Hi,all Following is the draft for pmipv6-based mobility multicast, welcome comments or correct if something is not right. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao > draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution > > Please follow the link below to complete your I-D submission. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=ikQAu > RlrfmZTNLMnFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=10344 > > Please note that if you do not follow the link above by > 2008-11-03, then this submission will be canceled and your > Internet-Draft will be permanently removed from the staging area. > > The IETF Secretariat. > _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --Boundary_(ID_J5M/E86WTeV3wqoK3CZGDg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi,Behcet
 
        Thanks for your review. See my comments inline.
 
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,

john.zhao

 
Hi John, Pierrick,
  I read this draft and have a few comments.
I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate in MLDv2 signaling.
[John.zhao] In some sense, it is exactly. But we just try to describ the solution from MAG but not MN. And, it just describs the architecture which can support both of the two cases that MN with MLDv2 signaling or not.

In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312 should be RFC 5213.
[John.zhao] Sorry. Thanks. 

Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost same, why?
[John.zhao] We will append some additional words to explain the difference.
 
Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically.
[John.zhao] Thanks.
 
Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to do?
[John.zhao] Maybe, but how do you think? Not sure if some foreign reference need to be appended at here. Currently, there is really some discussions and documents related to it in IEEE802.16m.

There are many other typos in the draft that I could not list them all here.
[John.zhao] Thanks. We will fix them in next version. Thanks again.
 
Regards,

Behcet

From: John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com>
To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM
Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution

Hi,Behcet
 
 

john.zhao
 


Hi John,
  I still cannot access your draft.


Hi,behcet
 
    Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-)
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,
 

john.zhao

 
Hi John,
  I think you forgot to follow the link given below
and because of that your new draft has still not been submitted.
We do have 00 version online.

Regards,

Behcet


Hi,all

    Following is the draft for pmipv6-based mobility multicast, welcome
comments or correct if something is not right.

    Best Rgds,
Thanks,


john.zhao
> draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution
>
> Please follow the link below to complete your I-D submission.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=ikQAu
> RlrfmZTNLMnFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=10344
>
> Please note that if you do not follow the link above by
> 2008-11-03, then this submission will be canceled and your
> Internet-Draft will be permanently removed from the staging area.
>
> The IETF Secretariat.
>


_______________________________________________
multimob mailing list
multimob@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob



--Boundary_(ID_J5M/E86WTeV3wqoK3CZGDg)-- --===============1093122096== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1093122096==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 12 14:53:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A04E3A63EC; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:53:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E3A3A63EC for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:53:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.413 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.413 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m2RYzV5l6IxA for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from web38805.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38805.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B4363A63D2 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 37598 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2008 22:53:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=tuFpwzbbwgzQDvdTKi34zBkqiPWFHJZ83GE2fc8921PzfSv4uhteZF2lNkerHbYunQmPtMTJj9cpnNcOvAhERAcw2Ka9lwqadx3uvE6keLk9eCLTXqjrhrNZ4BRgxn9FArdiq63UhxTC8daUl8NFp40ajgCi14jv3mgdwbmXAns=; X-YMail-OSG: ovpF1MQVM1nKzEkpwSmofuyr9.uB4WP4gDoxajseVmTiSVlsweLNcfOL0o35rJRQuemZ7zEqZDw1swr0ILww9cS5VfxPK9kBPAdPIHPl3bvwIHMMMWR8UAg10RTSQ.HJil6mLHjO7yXrrhqYKl2RydVI_Hc9IdHNFRu38X.A Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web38805.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:53:03 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:53:03 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <427578.37256.qm@web38805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: [multimob] Presentations at the BoF X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0415944224==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0415944224== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1217791101-1226530383=:37256" --0-1217791101-1226530383=:37256 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear all, Those who are presenting at Multimob BoF on Monday, please send your presentations to Brian and me by Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008. Thanks, Brian & Behcet --0-1217791101-1226530383=:37256 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear all,
  Those who are presenting at Multimob BoF on Monday, please send your presentations to Brian and me by Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008.
  Thanks,

Brian & Behcet

--0-1217791101-1226530383=:37256-- --===============0415944224== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0415944224==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 13 08:39:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5572028C1B1; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:39:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA693A67AC for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:39:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.732 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.732 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.618, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7o4VYYYa8qQj for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.99]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 16F7228C1B1 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25054 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2008 16:39:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=bo3Azj+0/vJzfXns84itVphy/mN6iokA6zx2qvQnwxI/epvTyumSlEbvzWc7GejtKoxHKFDlHBpLb7+UkV35841f2Ec3qYCpukNzZTpLeoSTyGmZ3n3+Y64DmHswZWtpgqIeotmSjJIKjCYaO1ITBSdvtzKw8AVR6CqtJwU+d5s=; X-YMail-OSG: AY.8j_0VM1n93_fT1dTbq90nqH1DixaystMrhtk9lDl3hGwFKVyGNpeoNLGGn12RPfbkLCa1BKodgMVDT3.vdhb5t7PCRiQqscTw9t_zZb8HQlcJRc7E93Kqoy9y8Tf8jJKrntYLKACoKeIIw2pq9_zsf.8TpxTTUyGvDWRgNh.BJSk- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:39:28 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 References: <008c01c94475$e7b08ee0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: john.zhao@huawei.com, pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <449432.24802.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1395282755==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1395282755== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1641387133-1226594368=:24802" --0-1641387133-1226594368=:24802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi John, I just want to clarify that PMIPv6 proxies MN for mobility signaling. Proxing MN for MLD signaling is completely another issue because group management protocol signaling does not fall into the same category. Because of this maybe you should clarify and justify better why you want network based subscription and why it should be MAG and not LMA-based in your draft. Regards, Behcet ________________________________ From: John.zhao To: Behcet Sarikaya ; pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:22:34 PM Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution Hi,Behcet Thanks for your review. See my comments inline. Best Rgds, Thanks,john.zhao Hi John, Pierrick, I read this draft and have a few comments. I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate in MLDv2 signaling. [John.zhao] In some sense, it is exactly. But we just try to describ the solution from MAG but not MN. And, it just describs the architecture which can support both of the two cases that MN with MLDv2 signaling or not. In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312 should be RFC 5213. [John.zhao] Sorry. Thanks. Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost same, why? [John.zhao] We will append some additional words to explain the difference. Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically. [John.zhao] Thanks. Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to do? [John.zhao] Maybe, but how do you think? Not sure if some foreign reference need to be appended at here. Currently, there is really some discussions and documents related to it in IEEE802.16m. There are many other typos in the draft that I could not list them all here. [John.zhao] Thanks. We will fix them in next version. Thanks again. Regards, Behcet ________________________________ From: John.zhao To: Behcet Sarikaya Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution Hi,Behcet Reference the following link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution-02.txt john.zhao ________________________________ Hi John, I still cannot access your draft. ________________________________ Hi,behcet Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-) Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Hi John, I think you forgot to follow the link given below and because of that your new draft has still not been submitted. We do have 00 version online. Regards, Behcet ________________________________ Hi,all Following is the draft for pmipv6-based mobility multicast, welcome comments or correct if something is not right. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao > draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution > > Please follow the link below to complete your I-D submission. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=ikQAu > RlrfmZTNLMnFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=10344 > > Please note that if you do not follow the link above by > 2008-11-03, then this submission will be canceled and your > Internet-Draft will be permanently removed from the staging area. > > The IETF Secretariat. > _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --0-1641387133-1226594368=:24802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi John,
  I just want to clarify that PMIPv6 pro= xies MN for mobility signaling. Proxing MN for MLD signaling is completely = another issue because group management protocol signaling does not fall int= o the same category.
  Because of this maybe you should clarify and= justify better why you want network based subscription and why it should b= e MAG and not LMA-based in your draft.
  Regards,

Behcet
=

<= b>From: John.zhao <john.zh= ao@huawei.com>
To: B= ehcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>; pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com
<= b>Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, = 2008 9:22:34 PM
Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution

=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A
<= span class=3D"314155802-12112008">Hi,Behcet
=0A
 
=0A
    &nb= sp;   Thanks for your review. See my =0Acomments inline.
=0A
 
=0A
    Best Rgds,
=0A
Thanks,
=0A

=0A

john.zhao
=0A=0A

 
=0A
=0A
= =0A
Hi John, Pierrick,
  I read this draft and have a few =0A= comments.
I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the = =0A multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participat= e in =0A MLDv2 signaling.
[John.zhao] In some sen= se, it is exactly. But we just try to =0A describ the solution from MAG bu= t not MN. And, it just describs the =0A architecture which can s= upport both of the two cases that MN with MLDv2 =0A signaling or not.

In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item =0A 6, RFC 5312 sh= ould be RFC 5213.
[John.zhao] Sorry. Thanks.&= nbsp;

Section =0A 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost= same, why?
[John.zhao] We will append some additi= onal words to explain the =0A difference.
=0A
 
Section 6.1 it says LMA = =0A needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statisticall= y. I =0A think this should be statically.
[John.zhao]=  Thanks.
=0A
 
Section 7.1. at the end =0A there is a note, is this i= ntended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to =0A do?
[John.zhao] Maybe, but how do you think? Not sure if some fore= ign =0A reference need to be appended at here. Currently, there is re= ally some =0A discussions and documents related to it in =0A IEEE802.16m.=

There are many other typos in the draft that =0A I c= ould not list them all here.
[John.zhao] Thanks. W= e will fix them in =0A next version. Thanks again.
 
Regards,

Behcet
=0A

=0A
=0A =
=0A From: = John.zhao =0A <john.zhao@huawei.com>
To: Behcet Sarikaya =0A <sarikaya@ieee.org>
= Sent: Tuesday, November 4,= 2008 7:56:18 =0A PM
Subject: RE: [multimob] =0A FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for =0A draft= -zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution

=0A =0A=0A
Hi,Behcet=
=0A
 
=0A
 = ;   Reference the following =0A link:    <= /font>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhao-multimob-p= mip6-solution-02.txt
=0A
 
=0A

<= /p>=0A

john.zhao=
=0A
 

= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi J= ohn,
  I still cannot access your draft.
=0A

=0A
=0A =
=0A
=0A =0A=0A
Hi,behcet
= =0A
 
=0A
    Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my =0A in= attention for this email. I have replied it. :-)
=0A =
    Best Rgds,
=0A
= Thanks,
=0A
 
=0A

=0A

john.zhao
=0A =0A

 
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi John= ,
  I think you forgot to follow the link given below =0A
and b= ecause of that your new draft has still not been =0A submitted.
We= do have 00 version =0A online.

Regards,

Behcet
=0A
<= br>=0A
=0A
=0A =
Hi,all

    Following is the draft for =0A= pmipv6-based mobility multicast, welcome
comments or correct if = =0A something is not right.

    Best =0A Rg= ds,
Thanks,


john.zhao
> =0A draft-zhao-multimob-pm= ip6-solution
>
> Please follow the link =0A below to comp= lete your I-D submission.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=3DikQAu> =0A RlrfmZTNLMnFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=3D10344
&g= t;
> =0A Please note that if you do not follow the link above b= y
> =0A 2008-11-03, then this submission will be canceled and y= our
> =0A Internet-Draft will be permanently removed from the s= taging area.
> =0A
> The IETF Secretariat.
> =0A =


_______________________________________________
multimob = =0A mailing list
multimob@ietf.or= g
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob<= /a>




=0A=0A=0A=0A = --0-1641387133-1226594368=:24802-- --===============1395282755== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1395282755==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 13 16:54:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468CA3A6A34; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D18D3A6A2E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:54:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.089 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FRT_SOMA2=2.199, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KoUQAs2Ft1IS for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF8F3A6A34 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KAA00062T5ONT@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:53:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KAA009OUT5OA9@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:53:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.133]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KAA0088CT5LDS@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:53:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:53:38 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <449432.24802.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: 'Behcet Sarikaya' , pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com Message-id: <005001c945f3$7184fc40$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AclFrl6R5xNaKyrfRCqGwCOalWqbiQARAnJw Cc: multimob@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0058573323==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0058573323== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ywCAauaZGOSjT2Fj6FG/9A)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ywCAauaZGOSjT2Fj6FG/9A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi,Behcet Thanks. See my comments inline. Best Rgds, John.zhao Hi John, I just want to clarify that PMIPv6 proxies MN for mobility signaling. Proxing MN for MLD signaling is completely another issue because group management protocol signaling does not fall into the same category. [John.zhao] Yes. I agree from protocol perspective. And from network management perspective , they have some similiar points. Because of this maybe you should clarify and justify better why you want network based subscription and why it should be MAG and not LMA-based in your draft. [John.zhao] OK. More detail explaination will be included in the draft.Here only summarizing on them as following: As to why not LMA-based, generally, it is because MAG is the first hop of MN in pmipv6 domain, and the user profile can be accessed by MAG during the initial network entry progress of the MN but not LMA. So MAG can have the possible info to do proxing for MLD signalings. Meanwhile, if LMA-based is used, that means MAG will regardless to those multicast management infos. Thus those multicast traffics can't be aggregated between LMA and MAG except we can let both of LMA and MAG to do proxy that will be a case of MAG-based solution. Regards, Behcet _____ From: John.zhao To: Behcet Sarikaya ; pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com Cc: multimob@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:22:34 PM Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution Hi,Behcet Thanks for your review. See my comments inline. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Hi John, Pierrick, I read this draft and have a few comments. I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate in MLDv2 signaling. [John.zhao] In some sense, it is exactly. But we just try to describ the solution from MAG but not MN. And, it just describs the architecture which can support both of the two cases that MN with MLDv2 signaling or not. In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312 should be RFC 5213. [John.zhao] Sorry. Thanks. Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost same, why? [John.zhao] We will append some additional words to explain the difference. Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically. [John.zhao] Thanks. Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to do? [John.zhao] Maybe, but how do you think? Not sure if some foreign reference need to be appended at here. Currently, there is really some discussions and documents related to it in IEEE802.16m. There are many other typos in the draft that I could not list them all here. [John.zhao] Thanks. We will fix them in next version. Thanks again. Regards, Behcet _____ From: John.zhao To: Behcet Sarikaya Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution Hi,Behcet Reference the following link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution-02.tx t john.zhao _____ Hi John, I still cannot access your draft. _____ Hi,behcet Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-) Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao Hi John, I think you forgot to follow the link given below and because of that your new draft has still not been submitted. We do have 00 version online. Regards, Behcet _____ Hi,all Following is the draft for pmipv6-based mobility multicast, welcome comments or correct if something is not right. Best Rgds, Thanks, john.zhao > draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution > > Please follow the link below to complete your I-D submission. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/auto_post.cgi?auth_key=ikQAu > RlrfmZTNLMnFcGGQZBP7JsyCYMZ&submission_id=10344 > > Please note that if you do not follow the link above by > 2008-11-03, then this submission will be canceled and your > Internet-Draft will be permanently removed from the staging area. > > The IETF Secretariat. > _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --Boundary_(ID_ywCAauaZGOSjT2Fj6FG/9A) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi,Behcet
 
    Thanks. See my comments inline.
 
Best Rgds,
 
John.zhao

Hi John,
  I just want to clarify that PMIPv6 proxies MN for mobility signaling. Proxing MN for MLD signaling is completely another issue because group management protocol signaling does not fall into the same category.
[John.zhao] Yes. I agree from protocol perspective. And from network management perspective , they have some similiar points. 
  Because of this maybe you should clarify and justify better why you want network based subscription and why it should be MAG and not LMA-based in your draft.
[John.zhao] OK. More detail explaination will be included in the draft.Here only summarizing on them as following:
    As to why not LMA-based, generally, it is because MAG is the first hop of MN in pmipv6 domain, and the user profile can be accessed by MAG during the initial network entry progress of the MN but not LMA. So MAG can have the possible info to do proxing for MLD signalings. Meanwhile, if LMA-based is used, that means MAG will regardless to those multicast management infos. Thus those multicast traffics can't be aggregated between LMA and MAG except we can let both of LMA and MAG to do proxy that will be a case of MAG-based solution. 
 
  Regards,

Behcet

From: John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com>
To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>; pierrick.seite@orange-ftgroup.com
Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:22:34 PM
Subject: Re: [multimob] draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution

Hi,Behcet
 
        Thanks for your review. See my comments inline.
 
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,

john.zhao

 
Hi John, Pierrick,
  I read this draft and have a few comments.
I think that the main idea in your draft is triggering the multicast subscription from the network so that MN does not participate in MLDv2 signaling.
[John.zhao] In some sense, it is exactly. But we just try to describ the solution from MAG but not MN. And, it just describs the architecture which can support both of the two cases that MN with MLDv2 signaling or not.

In Section 4.1.1.1. below Fig. 1 item 6, RFC 5312 should be RFC 5213.
[John.zhao] Sorry. Thanks. 

Section 5.1 and Section 5.2 text are almost same, why?
[John.zhao] We will append some additional words to explain the difference.

Section 6.1 it says LMA needs to configure its upstream and downstream interfaces statistically. I think this should be statically.
[John.zhao] Thanks.

Section 7.1. at the end there is a note, is this intended to describe what WiMAX Forum is trying to do?
[John.zhao] Maybe, but how do you think? Not sure if some foreign reference need to be appended at here. Currently, there is really some discussions and documents related to it in IEEE802.16m.

There are many other typos in the draft that I could not list them all here.
[John.zhao] Thanks. We will fix them in next version. Thanks again.
 
Regards,

Behcet

From: John.zhao <john.zhao@huawei.com>
To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 7:56:18 PM
Subject: RE: [multimob] FW: I-D Submitter Authentication for draft-zhao-multimob-pmip6-solution

Hi,Behcet
 
 

john.zhao
 


Hi John,
  I still cannot access your draft.


Hi,behcet
 
    Yes. You are right. Thank you very much. Sorry for my inattention for this email. I have replied it. :-)
    Best Rgds,
Thanks,
 

john.zhao

 
Hi John,
  I think you forgot to follow the link given below
and because of that your new draft has still not been submitted.
We do have 00 version online.

Regards,

Behcet




--Boundary_(ID_ywCAauaZGOSjT2Fj6FG/9A)-- --===============0058573323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0058573323==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 17 11:50:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505163A6A49; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:50:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CC23A6A49 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:50:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.775 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.775 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RzzBqSnD6r7h for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.15.162]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F9A43A6939 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 76634 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2008 19:50:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=3x6wSObxp5l3p5DnzUicM2nXssWXG19sU62LHWkF68uUMZ8uEOMWAYpoYRtXJcjNho+SyofdfND/Q1+CJUWtoUS6qkboOeYaLnv5g9sXJ2iod6ag37FK72RXOCjcgryTh/qYaoBuUUvXnw9khq9ZX+T96Zsi3N3nJ7sruVrAkE4=; X-YMail-OSG: QfGWkTMVM1lc_HO1o__lCD8hYx3Sff.SDEk3GJq.V9Mu44T0UyH_skXDDpSOl17TsR0zR_Xfc4UAPfjb.2bFeea5v7lJe7fb8KuOBDpiJRpWWsToKVF7BAsEp1q3KbuN8wmbP7AF7aVsjew7eS456tCjp6tl6ll1fBKJIDYBJ9Nz2EZXtYZw0cTuukzg Received: from [130.129.28.213] by web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:50:29 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.32 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <738819.73313.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Subject: [multimob] BoF session today at 15:20 in Duluth room X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0536136748==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0536136748== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-942512886-1226951429=:73313" --0-942512886-1226951429=:73313 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear all, Please find all meeting materials (except one) posted at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/73/materials.html and the latest agenda at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/agenda/multimob.html See you all soon. Regards, Brian & Behcet --0-942512886-1226951429=:73313 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear all,
  Please find all meeting materials (except one) posted at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/73/materials.html

and the latest agenda at:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/agenda/multimob.html

See you all soon.

Regards,

Brian & Behcet

--0-942512886-1226951429=:73313-- --===============0536136748== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0536136748==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 17 12:25:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E803A6939; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:25:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E7F3A6A13; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_BAYES_5x7=0.6, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URC7EkOMPLdH; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821FD3A6939; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:25:38 -0800 (PST) Envelope-to: mobopts@irtf.org, multimob@ietf.org Received: from [130.129.63.199] by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1L2Af7-000Oj3-Uc; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:25:37 +0100 Message-ID: <4921D333.6020806@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:25:23 +0100 From: "Thomas C. Schmidt" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mobopts@irtf.org" , multimob@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020204090602090701040701" Subject: [multimob] [Mobopts] ID-update of draft-irtf-mobopts-mmcastv6-ps X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020204090602090701040701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, we just updated the problem statement ID: "Multicast Mobility in MIPv6: Problem Statement and Brief Survey" Abstract This document discusses current mobility extensions to IP layer multicast. It describes problems arising from mobile group communication in general, the case of multicast listener mobility, and for mobile senders using Any Source Multicast and Source Specific Multicast. Characteristic aspects of multicast routing and deployment issues for fixed IPv6 networks are summarized. Specific properties and interplays with the underlying network access are surveyed with respect to the relevant technologies in the wireless domain. It outlines the principal approaches to multicast mobility, together with a comprehensive exploration of the mobile multicast problem and solution space. This document concludes with a conceptual roadmap for initial steps in standardization for use by future mobile multicast protocol designers. It should be on the ID directory soon, but may be immediately downloaded from: http://www.realmv6.org/papers/draft-irtf-mobopts-mmcastv6-ps-05.txt This version includes all changes resulting of the RG-last-call reviews. We will briefly present the update tomorrow in the MobOpts session. Attached please find a diff-output taken with the previous version 04. Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow! Best regards, thomas -- ° Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt ° HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik ° University of Applied Sciences ° Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg, Germany ° Fon: +49-40-42875-8452, Fax: -8409 ° http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt --------------020204090602090701040701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="rfcdiff-04-05.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="rfcdiff-04-05.htm" PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+DQo8bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSJjb250ZW50LXR5cGUiIGNvbnRlbnQ9 InRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1JU08tODg1OS0xIj4NCjx0aXRsZT53ZGlmZiBkcmFmdC1p cnRmLW1vYm9wdHMtbW1jYXN0djYtcHMtMDQudHh0IGRyYWZ0LWlydGYtbW9ib3B0cy1tbWNh c3R2Ni1wcy0wNS50eHQ8L3RpdGxlPjwvaGVhZD48Ym9keT4NCjxwcmU+DQogICBNb2JPcHRz IFJlc2VhcmNoIEdyb3VwICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBUaG9tYXMgQy4g U2NobWlkdA0KICAgSW50ZXJuZXQgRHJhZnQgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgSEFXIEhhbWJ1cmcNCiAgIEludGVuZGVkIFN0YXR1czogSW5mb3Jt YXRpb25hbCAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgTWF0dGhpYXMgV2FlaGxpc2NoDQogICBFeHBp 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ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4063A6A74; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:30:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B3D3A6844 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:29:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.555, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c-jZlFb6h9Fi for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:29:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from n2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (n2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.9.85]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 469773A6A74 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:29:59 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_YomDzsVM1nvpPpQzDAZRRtZ7ChWXIMLznvaFxjs6SEly4VJsLU7lBPrkafFPXDfc.Pe1oTZhSeQ0SgAXHPIqS4ZVtRSoCbxCCIV53BT6jdJ6r4.i6InXNbCnLXp5HXZra585P38yHBuTZ4SSNRWgF41Px4isjFTzp.gt0Xvkf0k_dK1W9FVtfYd4v7i Received: from [130.129.28.213] by web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:29:57 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.32 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:29:57 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <133903.25914.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Subject: [multimob] Minutes X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0723028141==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0723028141== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-619170533-1226968197=:25914" --0-619170533-1226968197=:25914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear all, The minutes of the BoF are posted at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/minutes/multimob.txt Many thanks to Spencer for taking the minutes. As soon as the other minutes are available we will post them. Regards, Behcet --0-619170533-1226968197=:25914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear all,
  The minutes of the BoF are posted at:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/minutes/multimob.txt

Many thanks to Spencer for taking the minutes.

  As soon as the other minutes are available we will post them.

Regards,

Behcet

--0-619170533-1226968197=:25914-- --===============0723028141== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0723028141==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 25 09:52:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE433A68E1; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:52:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5372B3A68E1 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:52:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.336 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.336 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qKniC65OgOxC for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from n3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (n3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.9.86]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 815E63A67A4 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [67.195.9.82] by n3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Nov 2008 17:52:53 -0000 Received: from [67.195.9.101] by t2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Nov 2008 17:52:53 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Nov 2008 17:52:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 322428.93619.bm@omp105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 33925 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Nov 2008 17:52:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=tM8gM0y+EybPFiwts6kEuIzw3OU7OuDlMtF3oWqipJTe0BxVYFmHKS2eucrUZ8yrZ0ARQJrjRlPI0ogX5mBVLAuEKTx3VWa37xR7edm9iZcIDTpl+IXj8PHpAhgu4WIW1aVf3XbztSN39K9jzxiMKWpEGvnY9VLy+SIahCEFJ7I=; X-YMail-OSG: 2f9PpHIVM1moZZinlVv.7lASDwNWxOhILB4DZLxgWf4C2VNB__YAtV7d2tDSEbTIKb_S4dg1nQTcmgN2PNJOiWYFsRYB368yLuoFkdhVClVk0d.7sSJoLKNmCZp.UlArdNxVT1CWEU6.FW95RRocYzX6bA-- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:52:53 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.32 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 References: <49130E13.8040805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.005253.179720275.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49131786.2030100@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <20081107.013921.242149102.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <49132333.3020403@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> <1d38a3350811090759n146c643jb709781328bd4c33@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:52:53 -0800 (PST) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org, Suresh Krishnan MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <167758.33851.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Subject: [multimob] Comments on draft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0505779615==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0505779615== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1151772992-1227635573=:33851" --0-1151772992-1227635573=:33851 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all, At Multimob BoF last week it became clear that PMIPv6 requirements draft concentrated (probably) too much on the operating requirements and failed to state some simple traffic requirements. I remember these traffic requirements were already stated in the pre BoF meeting we had in Dublin. Any comments? Suresh? Regards, Behcet --0-1151772992-1227635573=:33851 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello all,
  At Multimob BoF last week it became clear that PMIPv6 requirements draft concentrated (probably) too much on the operating requirements and failed to state some simple traffic requirements.
  I remember these traffic requirements were already stated in the pre BoF meeting we had in Dublin.
  Any comments? Suresh?

Regards,

Behcet


--0-1151772992-1227635573=:33851-- --===============0505779615== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0505779615==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 1 01:08:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimob-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-multimob-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D583A68C4; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 01:08:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: multimob@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B9C3A68C4 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 01:08:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vfcEhZley7Nv for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 01:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F53C3A68C2 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 01:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KB600GOXXEOL1@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:08:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KB6005ZRXENJE@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:08:47 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.148.100]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KB60090BXEK8V@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:08:47 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:08:45 +0800 From: "John.zhao" In-reply-to: <167758.33851.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To: 'Behcet Sarikaya' , multimob@ietf.org, 'Suresh Krishnan' Message-id: <005101c95394$6a2a44b0$a864a8c0@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AclPJqTbR7KAkKtdQ8qpXQW+VVG6ewEbGtbg Subject: Re: [multimob] Comments on draft-deng-multimob-pmip6-requirement-01.txt X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1702861769==" Sender: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1702861769== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bJt4A6sWsRYG/Rlu9zNxXw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_bJt4A6sWsRYG/Rlu9zNxXw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi,Behcet and all My two cents. As my understanding,we need optimize the traffics between MAG and LMA and also include the tunnel between old MAG and new MAG. Best Rgds Thanks, john.zhao Hello all, At Multimob BoF last week it became clear that PMIPv6 requirements draft concentrated (probably) too much on the operating requirements and failed to state some simple traffic requirements. I remember these traffic requirements were already stated in the pre BoF meeting we had in Dublin. Any comments? Suresh? Regards, Behcet --Boundary_(ID_bJt4A6sWsRYG/Rlu9zNxXw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi,Behcet and all
 
    My two cents.
     As my understanding,we need optimize the traffics between MAG and LMA and also include the tunnel between old MAG and new MAG.
 
    Best Rgds
Thanks,

john.zhao

 
Hello all,
  At Multimob BoF last week it became clear that PMIPv6 requirements draft concentrated (probably) too much on the operating requirements and failed to state some simple traffic requirements.
  I remember these traffic requirements were already stated in the pre BoF meeting we had in Dublin.
  Any comments? Suresh?

Regards,

Behcet


--Boundary_(ID_bJt4A6sWsRYG/Rlu9zNxXw)-- --===============1702861769== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1702861769==--