
From nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp  Sat Feb  1 11:33:05 2014
Return-Path: <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC231A05E9 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat,  1 Feb 2014 11:33:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.476
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.476 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.535, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19DnLn5vXcO7 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat,  1 Feb 2014 11:33:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (ns.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803:203:178:142:143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1931A05DE for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sat,  1 Feb 2014 11:33:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-la0-f47.google.com (mail-la0-f47.google.com [209.85.215.47]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7980278165 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sun,  2 Feb 2014 04:32:57 +0900 (JST)
Received: by mail-la0-f47.google.com with SMTP id hr17so4353129lab.20 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:32:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=LW4b7gnqxWEIG94GWnAq6quXFcZ6MkcH51yri0HXVYY=; b=LW+w4aE9bwcMsTA1r9OGvNDQq+c/gsGqPlbwDbMuJTnvp4zWfmisHOEv66T2q2KHXc hX2v7y99pzhjEpalc6+XG0VE0TQJDPm4OtXJkxAkldkFn/U0sw/r5ek7mNDMFuncJ+vg YZSXDnQZ3yzEo8wtlO1YoVmpUOmvEwi8VmhgZIhmY38fZJnLld0j9/edst3P5fEZm6c7 X705UQSuJ3uG1AFl9/35Sp2epfxqxtyHtRwNv5d0EoIFD5OsRfoekgY7jdejVIjxqAc6 cOmn0UYy+btbnOifkEjitNuuOK15Cbt4uK4/xHbiYqe5C8QfU2t7EU/38o2Isf0TzkaH V2NA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.152.121.105 with SMTP id lj9mr1850687lab.37.1391283174926; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.114.93.198 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:32:54 -0800
Message-ID: <CAO249ye4ioA-RiCikL8vuU+OcB1Wag-XCFMB0dgr0-vpkuw5GA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e012277166c6da604f15d5bc3
Subject: [multipathtcp] Agenda for London meeting
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 19:33:05 -0000

--089e012277166c6da604f15d5bc3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello,

The schedule has not been fixed yet, but according to the preliminary
agenda (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda.html), we currently
have the
following the slot at the London meeting.

     Date:  Monday, March 3, 2014, 13:00 - 15:00 (Afternoon Session I)

     Room: Balmoral

If you're planning to present something, please provide us the following
info.
   1: presenter's name
   2: title
   3: length of the presentation

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil

--089e012277166c6da604f15d5bc3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<br><br>The schedule has not been fixed yet, but acc=
ording to the preliminary agenda (<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/m=
eeting/89/agenda.html">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda.html<=
/a>), we currently have the<br>
following the slot at the London meeting.<br><br>=A0 =A0 =A0Date: =A0Monday=
, March 3, 2014, 13:00 - 15:00 (Afternoon Session I) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<br=
>=A0 =A0 =A0Room: Balmoral<br><br>If you&#39;re planning to present somethi=
ng, please provide us the following info.<br>
=A0 =A01: presenter&#39;s name<br>=A0 =A02: title<br>=A0 =A03: length of th=
e presentation<br><br>Thanks,<br>--<br>Yoshi &amp; Phil</div>

--089e012277166c6da604f15d5bc3--

From dreibh@iem.uni-due.de  Sun Feb  2 01:35:53 2014
Return-Path: <dreibh@iem.uni-due.de>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D941A0098 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun,  2 Feb 2014 01:35:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.085
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.085 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.535] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5B6j42DvY9AK for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun,  2 Feb 2014 01:35:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailout.uni-due.de (mailout.uni-due.de [132.252.185.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2AC1A0095 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sun,  2 Feb 2014 01:35:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lupo.localnet (cm-84.215.18.138.getinternet.no [84.215.18.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailout.uni-due.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id s129Zhhc026009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 2 Feb 2014 10:35:44 +0100
From: Thomas Dreibholz <dreibh@iem.uni-due.de>
To: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 16:35:42 +0700
Message-ID: <2884656.xrJOJrn4u5@lupo>
Organization: University of Duisburg-Essen, Institute for Experimental Mathematics
User-Agent: KMail/4.11.5 (Linux/3.11.0-15-generic; KDE/4.11.5; x86_64; ; )
In-Reply-To: <CAO249ye4ioA-RiCikL8vuU+OcB1Wag-XCFMB0dgr0-vpkuw5GA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO249ye4ioA-RiCikL8vuU+OcB1Wag-XCFMB0dgr0-vpkuw5GA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2118536.BRQx3cRE7r"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
X-Virus-Scanned: Clam Anti Virus - http://www.clamav.net
X-Spam-Scanned: SpamAssassin: 3.002004 - http://www.spamassassin.org
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 132.252.185.19
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Agenda for London meeting
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:35:53 -0000

--nextPart2118536.BRQx3cRE7r
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Yoshifumi,

I would like to give a presentation on the current status and results o=
f the=20
ongoing MPTCP work in the NorNet testbed for multi-homed systems:

1: presenter's name: Thomas Dreibholz
2: title: The Status of MPTCP Deployment and Evaluation in the NorNet T=
estbed
3: length of the presentation: ca. 15 min

Details on NorNet can also be found here: https://www.nntb.no .


L=F8rdag 1. februar 2014 11.32.54 skrev Yoshifumi Nishida:
> Hello,
>=20
> The schedule has not been fixed yet, but according to the preliminary=

> agenda (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda.html), we curr=
ently
> have the
> following the slot at the London meeting.
>=20
>      Date:  Monday, March 3, 2014, 13:00 - 15:00 (Afternoon Session I=
)
>=20
>      Room: Balmoral
>=20
> If you're planning to present something, please provide us the follow=
ing
> info.
>    1: presenter's name
>    2: title
>    3: length of the presentation

=2D-=20
Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen / Med vennlig hilsen

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 Thomas Dreibholz

 Simula Research Laboratory
 Simula Innovation AS, Network Systems Group
 Visiting address: Martin Linges vei 17, 1364 Fornebu, Norway
 Mailing address:  P.O.Box 134, 1325 Lysaker, Norway
=2D----------------------------------------------------------------------=

 E-Mail:     dreibh@simula.no
 Homepage:   http://simula.no/people/dreibh
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--nextPart2118536.BRQx3cRE7r
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEABECAAYFAlLuEW4ACgkQ32BbsHYPLWXBlgCeIFTmtNgRZFogq2yfO4kIyECJ
DRAAnRFhx4mPc7B+GfEJts4A90eUjb3a
=VFrA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart2118536.BRQx3cRE7r--


From christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be  Thu Feb 13 04:19:01 2014
Return-Path: <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8841A0201 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 04:19:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.301
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qvKb1J3MUIVO for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 04:18:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1ED71A01F8 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 04:18:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (unknown [62.205.6.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: cpaasch@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4569D198079 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 13:18:51 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 4569D198079
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1392293931; bh=yzrWspd4zNFD8xjUAae7zJBMLK+N6k8R81Pkv7EhHms=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jsLgSPr0XiwdUDj2NTLW+r+PTY+RpZzkt1D2GDwLTE0PDdt6IpAgw5jobwtKWjhxI OEltEklL3O3IfDU5VAq9LZg4IamUiKz1BKpnMRvpxC2N0kLFfFBQbMn/GWuGzsoH1T RvKk9f3eXCcMZU/hS674PG/G2TU4HphIQgqvVv0k=
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 13:18:43 +0100
From: Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
To: MultiPath TCP - IETF WG <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20140213121843.GG5440@cpaasch-mac>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 4569D198079.ADE13
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Subject: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-paasch-mptcp-control-stream-00.txt
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:19:01 -0000

Hello,

just to let you know that we have submitted a new draft. The draft
introduces a control stream to MPTCP that allows to send control information
within an MPTCP-session without using the limited TCP option space.

See below for the links to the draft.


Cheers,
Christoph

----

A new version of I-D, draft-paasch-mptcp-control-stream-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Christoph Paasch and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-paasch-mptcp-control-stream
Revision:	00
Title:		A generic control stream for Multipath TCP
Document date:	2014-02-11
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		11
URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-paasch-mptcp-control-stream-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-paasch-mptcp-control-stream/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-paasch-mptcp-control-stream-00


Abstract:
   Multipath TCP's extensive use of TCP options to exchange control
   information consumes a significant part of the TCP option space.
   Extending MPTCP to add more control information into the session
   becomes cumbersome as the TCP option space is limited to 40 bytes.

   This draft introduces a control stream that allows to send control
   information as part of the subflow's payload.  The control stream is
   mapped into a separate sequence number space and uses a TLV-format
   for maximum extensibility.  It is left to future documents to specify
   how the TLV-format might be used to exchange control information.  As
   the control stream is sent as part of the subflow's payload, it is
   not subject to the 40 bytes limitation of the TCP option space.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


----- End forwarded message -----


From nobody Sat Feb 15 17:26:22 2014
Return-Path: <denglingli@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42081A0324 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:26:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 3.49
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CN_BODY_35=0.339, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0lMClEWRKzEw for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ve0-x235.google.com (mail-ve0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858DC1A0319 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id cz12so10692929veb.26 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:26:16 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;  h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=a5EH4uxw/Q+kBfNPc/PppNZSo40U9hw7oHbefzmAS8U=; b=yQfyB+Q60nf8HKPTopo+310QGR4AERxsGBvZvley9oF3m5bsgz+h0jODDzgyRqhIdY TySeOX+qQNi3FvKwP2SwLRncBfka+q58mITcyxlylIPjr3jCEC6oEM7NMWozJ8wh+rRU NKA1p7fvsajS3VOnjLwbY286OJaasT/ldBOD5tYraZUmJFdci16T4UVvSk9wLassi0yH C7Jjm1wZE+AOFxr1am4U6I5mKvnDFTuXIofdbIU5vMtDcgwdIMK8qNpm/2qQSIeU+m7N c3u9jMBj08zpGbz2ApZCrDwJ8sNIx0lBprz0GTknoc5cdUIu+xEqKoda9tOsQgIFbcTJ 5L1g==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.52.107.35 with SMTP id gz3mr9423346vdb.8.1392513976333; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.58.100.212 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:26:16 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <2afb52fe3cd3acc-0000a.Richmail.00009030405128129702@chinamobile.com>
References: <20140214160043.25045.90052.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2afb52fe3cd3acc-0000a.Richmail.00009030405128129702@chinamobile.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 09:26:16 +0800
Message-ID: <CAHWmbsMw-f8CbJX_mXXEEEcjV6HsmchZrzq0yuQWGY13G-F77Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>
To: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec547c6bfe7799b04f27bec36
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/6V1rW55zK9Kx9JGBSQSf-HUiXaQ
Subject: [multipathtcp] Fwd: Fw:New Version Notification fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 01:26:21 -0000

--bcaec547c6bfe7799b04f27bec36
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

We uploaded a new I.D., which discusses the usecases of network deployed
MPTCP proxy.
URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-
mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
Your review and comments would be highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Lingli

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2 <denglingli@chinamobile.com>
Date: 2014-02-14 23:59 GMT+08:00
Subject: Fw:New Version Notification
fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
To: denglingli <denglingli@gmail.com>




----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=CE=C4----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BAinternet-drafts<internet-drafts@ietf.org>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BATao Sun <suntao@chinamobile.com>,Dapeng Liu<liudape=
ng@chinamobile.com
>,Deng Lingli<denglingli@chinamobile.com>,Tao Sun<suntao@chinamobile.com
>,Lingli Deng <denglingli@chinamobile.com>,Dapeng Liu <
liudapeng@chinamobile.com>
=B3=AD =CB=CD: (=CE=DE)
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA2014-02-15 00:00:43
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BANew Version Notification fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-netwo=
rk-proxy-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lingli Deng and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy
Revision: 00
Title: MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks
Document date: 2014-02-14
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 8
URL:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-0=
0.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy/
Htmlized:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00


Abstract:
 This document discusses the motivation and usecases for ISP deployed
 MPTCP proxies in mobile networks.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n

until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


Subject=A3=BANew Version Notification fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-pr=
oxy-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lingli Deng and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy
Revision: 00
Title: MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks
Document date: 2014-02-14
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 8
URL:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-0=
0.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy/
Htmlized:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00


Abstract:
 This document discusses the motivation and usecases for ISP deployed
 MPTCP proxies in mobile networks.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n

until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat







--=20
=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng
=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA/China Mobile Researc=
h Institute
e-mail: denglingli@chinamobile.com
tel: 15801696688-3367
mobile: 13810597148

--bcaec547c6bfe7799b04f27bec36
Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>We uploaded a new =
I.D., which discusses the usecases of network deployed MPTCP proxy.</div><d=
iv>URL:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptc=
p-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#0066cc">ht=
tp://www.ietf.org/</font><font color=3D"#0066cc">internet-drafts/draft-deng=
-</font><font color=3D"#0066cc">mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.</font><font =
color=3D"#0066cc">txt</font></a> </div>
<div>Your review and comments would be highly appreciated.</div><div>&nbsp;=
</div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Lingli<br><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b=
 class=3D"gmail_sendername">=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com">denglingli@chinamobile.com</a>&=
gt;</span><br>
Date: 2014-02-14 23:59 GMT+08:00<br>Subject: Fw:New Version Notification fo=
rdraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt<br>To: denglingli &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:denglingli@gmail.com">denglingli@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><br><br>
<div><br><br></div>----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=CE=C4----<br>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=
=A3=BAinternet-drafts&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BATao=
&nbsp;Sun&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:suntao@chinamobile.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">suntao@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;,Dapeng&nbsp;Liu&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liu=
dapeng@chinamobile.com" target=3D"_blank">liudapeng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;=
,Deng&nbsp;Lingli&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com" target=
=3D"_blank">denglingli@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;,Tao&nbsp;Sun&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:suntao@chinamobile.com" target=3D"_blank">suntao@chinamobile.com</a>&=
gt;,Lingli&nbsp;Deng&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">denglingli@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;,Dapeng&nbsp;Liu&nbsp;=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liudapeng@chinamobile.com" target=3D"_blank">liudapen=
g@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;<br>
=B3=AD=A1=A1=CB=CD:&nbsp;(=CE=DE)<br>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA2014-02-=
15&nbsp;00:00:43<br>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BANew&nbsp;Version&nbsp;Notification&nb=
sp;fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt<br><br><br>A&nbsp;new&nb=
sp;version&nbsp;of&nbsp;I-D,&nbsp;draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.=
txt <br>has&nbsp;been&nbsp;successfully&nbsp;submitted&nbsp;by&nbsp;Lingli&=
nbsp;Deng&nbsp;and&nbsp;posted&nbsp;to&nbsp;the <br>
IETF&nbsp;repository. <br><br>Name: draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy <=
br>Revision: 00 <br>Title: MPTCP&nbsp;Proxy&nbsp;for&nbsp;Mobile&nbsp;Netwo=
rks <br>Document&nbsp;date: 2014-02-14 <br>Group: Individual&nbsp;Submissio=
n <br>Pages: 8 <br>URL:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts=
/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt</a> =
<br>
Status:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deng-mptcp-m=
obile-network-proxy/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy/</a> <br>Htmlized:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00" target=3D"=
_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00=
</a> <br>
<br><br>Abstract: <br>&nbsp;This&nbsp;document&nbsp;discusses&nbsp;the&nbsp=
;motivation&nbsp;and&nbsp;usecases&nbsp;for&nbsp;ISP&nbsp;deployed <br>&nbs=
p;MPTCP&nbsp;proxies&nbsp;in&nbsp;mobile&nbsp;networks. <br><br><br>&nbsp; =
<br><br><br>Please&nbsp;note&nbsp;that&nbsp;it&nbsp;may&nbsp;take&nbsp;a&nb=
sp;couple&nbsp;of&nbsp;minutes&nbsp;from&nbsp;the&nbsp;time&nbsp;of&nbsp;su=
bmission <br>
until&nbsp;the&nbsp;htmlized&nbsp;version&nbsp;and&nbsp;diff&nbsp;are&nbsp;=
available&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
tools.ietf.org</a>. <br><br>The&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;Secretariat <br><br><br>Subj=
ect=A3=BANew&nbsp;Version&nbsp;Notification&nbsp;fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile=
-network-proxy-00.txt<br>
<br><br>A&nbsp;new&nbsp;version&nbsp;of&nbsp;I-D,&nbsp;draft-deng-mptcp-mob=
ile-network-proxy-00.txt <br>has&nbsp;been&nbsp;successfully&nbsp;submitted=
&nbsp;by&nbsp;Lingli&nbsp;Deng&nbsp;and&nbsp;posted&nbsp;to&nbsp;the <br>IE=
TF&nbsp;repository. <br><br>Name: draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy <br=
>
Revision: 00 <br>Title: MPTCP&nbsp;Proxy&nbsp;for&nbsp;Mobile&nbsp;Networks=
 <br>Document&nbsp;date: 2014-02-14 <br>Group: Individual&nbsp;Submission <=
br>Pages: 8 <br>URL:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dr=
aft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ie=
tf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt</a> <br=
>
Status:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deng-mptcp-m=
obile-network-proxy/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy/</a> <br>Htmlized:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00" target=3D"=
_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00=
</a> <br>
<br><br>Abstract: <br>&nbsp;This&nbsp;document&nbsp;discusses&nbsp;the&nbsp=
;motivation&nbsp;and&nbsp;usecases&nbsp;for&nbsp;ISP&nbsp;deployed <br>&nbs=
p;MPTCP&nbsp;proxies&nbsp;in&nbsp;mobile&nbsp;networks. <br><br><br>&nbsp; =
<br><br><br>Please&nbsp;note&nbsp;that&nbsp;it&nbsp;may&nbsp;take&nbsp;a&nb=
sp;couple&nbsp;of&nbsp;minutes&nbsp;from&nbsp;the&nbsp;time&nbsp;of&nbsp;su=
bmission <br>
until&nbsp;the&nbsp;htmlized&nbsp;version&nbsp;and&nbsp;diff&nbsp;are&nbsp;=
available&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
tools.ietf.org</a>. <br><br>The&nbsp;IETF&nbsp;Secretariat <br><br><br>
<div><br><br></div></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=
=F2/Lingli Deng<br>=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA/C=
hina Mobile Research Institute<br>e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chin=
amobile.com">denglingli@chinamobile.com</a><br>tel: 15801696688-3367<br>
mobile: 13810597148<br>
</div>

--bcaec547c6bfe7799b04f27bec36--


From nobody Sun Feb 16 14:54:23 2014
Return-Path: <bittau@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B17F1A0424 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.278
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sWWVwEP3pI-e for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qa0-x229.google.com (mail-qa0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8736B1A02FA for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id w8so21087759qac.14 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:18 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;  h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type;  bh=56v39D0ffjZpX6FWbhw308uABcllJgFQ9+sKCyx9Njk=; b=MFYOgxph7DthIwPrUWlIm9TWxcHP/DPz5e/2KdkaxxywBKAM9XBLzJS2olKdoDOJPN ou33qhtF3K5o9Hs9/CezT1EZ1cypr7DdpUDJFSzIRMs3Cf1hFLMZpyK4RcWLTuAqfBoa 4lKOHw98t96ih4KKUepItyookhetLsB/3mXNbYiH99XLjRpjJ89bilNv+g9YvJVfjzDq hmOFML5rmFml/pmZALFjV1sQtBYhikcYwswqR5twTPQS0RNEBqic2IuXqftMZtI1dVTE Ax0MWPrtDBaIIZoN2bML9yR8Azjsd8QLVxx3qKOf+ddpv11NaynRR6637hiWGbE+zgw3 FrPg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.224.14.70 with SMTP id f6mr30897140qaa.31.1392591258136; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:18 -0800 (PST)
Sender: bittau@gmail.com
Received: by 10.224.198.5 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:18 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:54:18 -0800
X-Google-Sender-Auth: k3_NmfSFu8aBGbGZmVjynhhkegg
Message-ID: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andrea Bittau <bittau@cs.stanford.edu>
To: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/tgl0_VqvrlogAaQ47oBC5dDqnf8
Subject: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:54:22 -0000

Hi,

For those interested, we posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt
draft (opportunistic TCP encryption):

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt

This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
Session 1 (09:00--11:30).

All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
address in our presentation.

thanks!


From nobody Mon Feb 17 03:56:04 2014
Return-Path: <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640131A0316 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 03:56:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.301
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EXOxVXSMBo-3 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 03:56:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB22B1A0143 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 03:56:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (haproxy2.sipr.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: cpaasch@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC0DE19802F; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:55:52 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be EC0DE19802F
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1392638153; bh=0PbaiiuC87ESgNDCUdJMv/PX1Ea7nb4egtAfT1zsrgg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:In-Reply-To; b=YwiH1UIkeSSpVYVBL/Riq0ZLskgCnolZwHhWbSI0KaD2zCUl+BVA/rP4+wMB+ITN3 B/77xyZP6dCkTJayXtok1v4KHqHqDMn42qy5MdsRyeMyQ5EQxNZtwAovW9ukCWp+6Q Ig3XcJt+zDxG0gJLUToK6plt4uh7uEfMVJp3wPq8=
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:55:52 +0100
From: Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
To: Andrea Bittau <bittau@cs.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: EC0DE19802F.A1725
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/1HA2ecbayouXcqeyIJZGyWMEdUo
Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:56:03 -0000

Hello Andrea,

On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote:
> For those interested, we posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt
> draft (opportunistic TCP encryption):
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
> 
> This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
> Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
> 
> All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
> address in our presentation.

I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow support
for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using up all the TCP
option space.


Cheers,
Christoph


From nobody Mon Feb 17 04:06:30 2014
Return-Path: <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CDC1A04C1; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:06:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.9
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KcwqkokSCora; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:06:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hoemail2.alcatel.com (hoemail2.alcatel.com [192.160.6.149]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14181A04BB; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:06:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by hoemail2.alcatel.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s1HC6KHE009864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 06:06:21 -0600 (CST)
Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s1HC6GCh001816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:06:19 +0100
Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.146]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:06:17 +0100
From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
Thread-Index: AQHPK2oKBJRv4QExgUu9Pzq4Nlxc5Jq5RtEAgAASU9A=
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:06:16 +0000
Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac>
In-Reply-To: <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/PqneBq2OAVJ_KWzKEpIWjQUrpIs
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:06:29 -0000

FYI - this could matter to tcpm as well

> -----Original Message-----
> From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Christoph Paasch
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 PM
> To: Andrea Bittau
> Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
>=20
> Hello Andrea,
>=20
> On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote:
> > For those interested, we posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt
> > draft (opportunistic TCP encryption):
> >
> > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
> >
> > This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
> > Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
> >
> > All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
> > address in our presentation.
>=20
> I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
> options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow
> support
> for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using up all the
> TCP
> option space.
>=20
>=20
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


From nobody Mon Feb 17 10:14:15 2014
Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E216F1A0528; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:14:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.448
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGffvZyJ2YQO; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:14:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from darkstar.isi.edu (darkstar.isi.edu [128.9.128.127]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107EE1A0526; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:14:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.97] (pool-71-105-87-112.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.105.87.112]) (authenticated bits=0) by darkstar.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1HIDbXJ026154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:13:40 -0800 (PST)
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-Id: <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a)
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:13:36 -0800
To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/DHuR_TSgdfJTDxSrY8CLKtaYq4Q
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:14:12 -0000

FYI that trick was discussed for multipath tcp.  See their archives goe the r=
easons this isn't a good approach.=20

Joe

> On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:06 AM, "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@a=
lcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>=20
> FYI - this could matter to tcpm as well
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Christoph Paasch
>> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 PM
>> To: Andrea Bittau
>> Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
>>=20
>> Hello Andrea,
>>=20
>>> On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote:
>>> For those interested, we posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt
>>> draft (opportunistic TCP encryption):
>>>=20
>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
>>>=20
>>> This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
>>> Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
>>>=20
>>> All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
>>> address in our presentation.
>>=20
>> I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
>> options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow
>> support
>> for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using up all the
>> TCP
>> option space.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Christoph
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> multipathtcp mailing list
>> multipathtcp@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


From nobody Mon Feb 17 11:08:37 2014
Return-Path: <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC4D1A051A; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:08:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.301
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ipn3APCBhOjr; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:08:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EBC1A01DB; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:08:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (unknown [172.17.0.12]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: cpaasch@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F211C19802A; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 20:08:12 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be F211C19802A
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1392664093; bh=k2yAun+IEvy8Y6RAyV3t+XSOy1A9fFmMT2xzCTd/78E=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:In-Reply-To; b=POD+pVmHZI8DT1YrD1uYf6kbsCywnIwX/Bo568Sg3cjlIRnsQuHx8pOg5Ve+fswUl mo4tf47Uwa3EP0U2Z3HvkaC27kf/XDAX6hz01Icvw34AP8dyG6tLDSY4DC0VchP6bD IVOEdvAVZUOLMgP6htXTboA30bE197VTPIQ4hWH0=
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 20:08:12 +0100
From: Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Message-ID: <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: F211C19802A.AF9A3
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/RcnqteNvaWo8DK_etpqbHvHUTnQ
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:08:35 -0000

On 17/02/14 - 10:13:36, Joe Touch wrote:
> FYI that trick was discussed for multipath tcp.  See their archives goe
> the reasons this isn't a good approach. 

Oh indeed - I realize that the tcpcrypt draft mandates the MAC on every
packet (even on empty acknowledgments).

If the MAC would only be used on packets with data, then it would have been fine.

The problem for MPTCP was (if I remember correctly from the archives) because a
zero-window announcment would prevent acknowledgments on the return-path.



I think there is a second point of discussion for tcpcrypt:

Is it really worth to enforce the MAC on non-data segments?


Cheers,
Christoph


> > On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:06 AM, "Scharf, Michael (Michael)"
> > <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
> > 
> > FYI - this could matter to tcpm as well
> > 
> >> -----Original Message----- From: multipathtcp
> >> [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Paasch
> >> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 PM To: Andrea Bittau Cc:
> >> multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft
> >> available
> >> 
> >> Hello Andrea,
> >> 
> >>> On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote: For those interested, we
> >>> posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt draft (opportunistic TCP
> >>> encryption):
> >>> 
> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
> >>> 
> >>> This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
> >>> Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
> >>> 
> >>> All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
> >>> address in our presentation.
> >> 
> >> I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
> >> options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow
> >> support for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using up
> >> all the TCP option space.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Cheers, Christoph
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
> >> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
> > list multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> 
> _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list
> tcpm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm


From nobody Mon Feb 17 11:19:46 2014
Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E2C1A04ED; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:19:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.748
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SLq0iRlF9qKu; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:19:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC761A03DB; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:19:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.97] (pool-71-105-87-112.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.105.87.112]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1HJIkVW026468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:18:56 -0800 (PST)
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac>
In-Reply-To: <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-Id: <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a)
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:18:45 -0800
To: Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/xzZhiYIu8B_Vvwn9UZj5bCLlq4Y
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:19:45 -0000

> On Feb 17, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain=
.be> wrote:
>=20
>> On 17/02/14 - 10:13:36, Joe Touch wrote:
>> FYI that trick was discussed for multipath tcp.  See their archives goe
>> the reasons this isn't a good approach.
>=20
> Oh indeed - I realize that the tcpcrypt draft mandates the MAC on every
> packet (even on empty acknowledgments).
>=20
> If the MAC would only be used on packets with data, then it would have bee=
n fine.

Star the multipath archives. That still won't work.=20

>=20
> The problem for MPTCP was (if I remember correctly from the archives) beca=
use a
> zero-window announcment would prevent acknowledgments on the return-path.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I think there is a second point of discussion for tcpcrypt:
>=20
> Is it really worth to enforce the MAC on non-data segments?
=20
If not you're using TLS. Securing the control bits ought to be equally impor=
tant, though I have other problems with this draft
Joe

>=20
>=20
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>=20
>=20
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:06 AM, "Scharf, Michael (Michael)"
>>> <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> FYI - this could matter to tcpm as well
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: multipathtcp
>>>> [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Paasch
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 PM To: Andrea Bittau Cc:
>>>> multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft
>>>> available
>>>>=20
>>>> Hello Andrea,
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote: For those interested, we
>>>>> posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt draft (opportunistic TCP
>>>>> encryption):
>>>>>=20
>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
>>>>>=20
>>>>> This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
>>>>> Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
>>>>> address in our presentation.
>>>>=20
>>>> I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
>>>> options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow
>>>> support for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using up=

>>>> all the TCP option space.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers, Christoph
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
>>>> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
>>> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list
>> tcpm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm


From nobody Mon Feb 17 11:32:05 2014
Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613FD1A021A; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:32:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.748
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tOk68D91vyBE; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:32:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AE11A0215; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:32:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.97] (pool-71-105-87-112.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.105.87.112]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1HJVMrQ029175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:31:33 -0800 (PST)
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>
In-Reply-To: <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-Id: <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a)
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:31:22 -0800
To: Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/Vsv5C7_j_oGcQI0Ppf7ifvOJTOY
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:32:04 -0000

> On Feb 17, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouva=
in.be> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> On 17/02/14 - 10:13:36, Joe Touch wrote:
>>> FYI that trick was discussed for multipath tcp.  See their archives goe
>>> the reasons this isn't a good approach.
>>=20
>> Oh indeed - I realize that the tcpcrypt draft mandates the MAC on every
>> packet (even on empty acknowledgments).
>>=20
>> If the MAC would only be used on packets with data, then it would have be=
en fine.
>=20
> Star

See. Not star.  Sorry for the autocorrect.=20


> the multipath archives. That still won't work.=20
>=20
>>=20
>> The problem for MPTCP was (if I remember correctly from the archives) bec=
ause a
>> zero-window announcment would prevent acknowledgments on the return-path.=

>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I think there is a second point of discussion for tcpcrypt:
>>=20
>> Is it really worth to enforce the MAC on non-data segments?
>=20
> If not you're using TLS. Securing the control bits ought to be equally imp=
ortant, though I have other problems with this draft
> Joe
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Christoph
>>=20
>>=20
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:06 AM, "Scharf, Michael (Michael)"
>>>> <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> FYI - this could matter to tcpm as well
>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: multipathtcp
>>>>> [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Paasch
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 PM To: Andrea Bittau Cc:
>>>>> multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft
>>>>> available
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Hello Andrea,
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote: For those interested, we=

>>>>>> posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt draft (opportunistic TCP
>>>>>> encryption):
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
>>>>>> Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
>>>>>> address in our presentation.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
>>>>> options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow
>>>>> support for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using u=
p
>>>>> all the TCP option space.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Cheers, Christoph
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
>>>>> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
>>>> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list
>>> tcpm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm


From nobody Mon Feb 17 22:07:55 2014
Return-Path: <bittau@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8351A03E7; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.278
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F8pB_zFYzSV9; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yh0-x231.google.com (mail-yh0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913E11A0354; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yh0-f49.google.com with SMTP id t59so14817276yho.22 for <multiple recipients>; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:45 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;  h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=47HJafA9d6TLTnoImYkjCAFaFJTliwP0afe953au8kA=; b=rYI0VGCPrB4+22CAJ1CYhDm5GvThmrK82t22gCbaacrG6rBoTDfDwg2Gcic6emcbum nqqJtuA0gFBb02sA4oVjulBbwOiNDqf4+OAypcpURFxP/d298hv4mxXZ8OK8mDPe42dU ZRZXGv5VmxUMIn4oC+3e7tv7pk4LJt3GzYWZKvlY7Bk+SMMXk+z6vCqAceB0ElycrFH6 zN33uR/pgosCYiqAJddvcF9sLqD6DAmnCAZB2Gcdx7Ol3gZjabJaEO8are2DmRsrEIbe +h4D0wIEX9FtoHI1gxjRcAVIyWQM6BxndLl1FPXsF2E9yB6FVWYAxdRTmE75WYXKd5jH aaJw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.236.23.71 with SMTP id u47mr400395yhu.143.1392703665680; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:45 -0800 (PST)
Sender: bittau@gmail.com
Received: by 10.170.112.9 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:45 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu> <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:07:45 -0800
X-Google-Sender-Auth: _4GkurutXZSWrqO8Xn4SYOmGIiE
Message-ID: <CABu4T3+fAkcRhC=Hb76q-SU2M4sV2tPaiuJ1O_Dz-aOombjJNQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andrea Bittau <bittau@cs.stanford.edu>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>, David Mazieres expires 2014-03-21 PDT <mazieres-q62p5pu3tq8f5z455cgphqc3gn@temporary-address.scs.stanford.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/zgY2TZ9n4zLxwFI8lseQQTB58Jo
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm] new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 06:07:51 -0000

Here's our current thinking on the MAC option and TSO:

As already mentioned, including in the MAC in the payload has its
complications like pure ACKs.  Also, we wanted to stay as "clean" as
possible and not mix metadata and payload throughout the TCP
connection.  We do want to MAC control bits, and possibly even empty
RST packets.  Having the MAC as an option also makes it possible to
immediately MAC-check and decrypt packets that arrive out of order.
Having the MAC in payload would change TCP implementations quite
significantly and we did not want to over complicate things.  Having
it as an option felt more natural, and certainly simpler.

As for limited option space, especially in the context of mptcp, we
need to understand mptcp better and see if we can come up with a
compact integration.  We do intend to discuss this at the IETF meeting
to see if this will be a fundamental problem.

TSO: in the context of tcpcrypt, we're using the CPU to MAC and
encrypt every payload byte, and that operation will be the bottleneck
compared to (software-based) segmentation.  The offload probably won't
buy you much.  We'd love to offload the crypto in next-generation
TSOs, though! ;D

Of course our current design does not work with middleboxes that
coalesce or split packets.  If this proves to be an issue, we need to
redesign.


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 17/02/14 - 10:13:36, Joe Touch wrote:
>>>> FYI that trick was discussed for multipath tcp.  See their archives goe
>>>> the reasons this isn't a good approach.
>>>
>>> Oh indeed - I realize that the tcpcrypt draft mandates the MAC on every
>>> packet (even on empty acknowledgments).
>>>
>>> If the MAC would only be used on packets with data, then it would have been fine.
>>
>> Star
>
> See. Not star.  Sorry for the autocorrect.
>
>
>> the multipath archives. That still won't work.
>>
>>>
>>> The problem for MPTCP was (if I remember correctly from the archives) because a
>>> zero-window announcment would prevent acknowledgments on the return-path.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think there is a second point of discussion for tcpcrypt:
>>>
>>> Is it really worth to enforce the MAC on non-data segments?
>>
>> If not you're using TLS. Securing the control bits ought to be equally important, though I have other problems with this draft
>> Joe
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:06 AM, "Scharf, Michael (Michael)"
>>>>> <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI - this could matter to tcpm as well
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: multipathtcp
>>>>>> [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Paasch
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 PM To: Andrea Bittau Cc:
>>>>>> multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft
>>>>>> available
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Andrea,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 16/02/14 - 14:54:18, Andrea Bittau wrote: For those interested, we
>>>>>>> posted a revised version of the tcpcrypt draft (opportunistic TCP
>>>>>>> encryption):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bittau-tcp-crypt-04.txt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This will be discussed on Monday morning in tcpm, at the end of
>>>>>>> Session 1 (09:00--11:30).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All comments are welcome, including any points that you'd like us to
>>>>>>> address in our presentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would be important to consider moving the MAC from the TCP
>>>>>> options space to the payload (similar to an SSL-record) to allow
>>>>>> support for TSO and segment splitting middleboxes and to avoid using up
>>>>>> all the TCP option space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Christoph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
>>>>>> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ multipathtcp mailing
>>>>> list multipathtcp@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list
>>>> tcpm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


From nobody Tue Feb 18 00:11:03 2014
Return-Path: <lars@netapp.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACD11A0393; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:11:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.45
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zICllRviQ5tB; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:11:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8C31A0058; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:11:00 -0800 (PST)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,500,1389772800";  d="asc'?scan'208";a="143553643"
Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2014 00:10:57 -0800
Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.211]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:10:57 -0800
From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: Andrea Bittau <bittau@cs.stanford.edu>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [multipathtcp]  new tcpcrypt draft available
Thread-Index: AQHPLG/CXR4gZpxZAU+8pZwAF6zBP5q7Lx0A
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:10:56 +0000
Message-ID: <2CE6081E-0AB0-4EBA-A27B-331C7201DBEF@netapp.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu> <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <CABu4T3+fAkcRhC=Hb76q-SU2M4sV2tPaiuJ1O_Dz-aOombjJNQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABu4T3+fAkcRhC=Hb76q-SU2M4sV2tPaiuJ1O_Dz-aOombjJNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [10.122.105.11]
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A51A5BB6-55F3-49C7-99ED-57696DBB8E3C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/a5uDAML1wjptJSfv9-9MHEAbkuE
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, David Mazieres expires 2014-03-21 PDT <mazieres-q62p5pu3tq8f5z455cgphqc3gn@temporary-address.scs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]   new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:11:02 -0000

--Apple-Mail=_A51A5BB6-55F3-49C7-99ED-57696DBB8E3C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii

Hi,

On 2014-2-18, at 7:07, Andrea Bittau <bittau@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> TSO: in the context of tcpcrypt, we're using the CPU to MAC and
> encrypt every payload byte, and that operation will be the bottleneck
> compared to (software-based) segmentation.  The offload probably won't
> buy you much.

I'd really like to see this benchmarked. Modern CPUs can do crypto quite =
efficiently, but the 40x call chain overheads without TSO are killer.

Lars

--Apple-Mail=_A51A5BB6-55F3-49C7-99ED-57696DBB8E3C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQCVAwUBUwMVjNZcnpRveo1xAQLM7gP+L+hnHq8czW+sl6AJc/wX5RlDJLqhnefO
jQqFSSYu2cHlQmsD19UihdXd7qa/IgLXsY8PlnabAIOKzMJISmvLc/Sc2lqq8gZb
AIuL0aogSq9AvQEk9RTra/LXnOQQsX3lp0icB1RaZEzX9vxAlg2eoxlidyhfJ5vV
qkrCWpEUwgI=
=UNIL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Apple-Mail=_A51A5BB6-55F3-49C7-99ED-57696DBB8E3C--


From nobody Tue Feb 18 01:20:58 2014
Return-Path: <andrewmcgr@google.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50A01A0460 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:20:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.926
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.926 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D3a9LgayqBsD for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:20:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qg0-x230.google.com (mail-qg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C69B1A044B for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:20:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id a108so6595469qge.7 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:20:52 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0jgBUo0hqKy36Lfzk2QMntUc2edYpj0D8WH89oV0ONw=; b=KIk8FPqRC8Lj2sbooBGpFSyhcMQn3WO/l6NHtPqTIMjOHv3TIuZtvcIiY7TPqqMqEq W3Kt80NqH9PueLSi3/vA32ec2he+I3wXy6LGf8TSmsoR9YVymZLRVL9kPC2BTpJmSR2j hfKlmxoMbL7l5P4Fgitx9nPOOQID1fxI46G8Rcc3wRjjYOiA7C16tu4wbqQHyTVWdj0L a3eZIBQH8PJwh8YBELHHEWyZMPmPJ+S0H/aSURp8OiOTCgFKE/LogXZXODkcsbY5rnK4 ZWUPfS+BNvhVqAh4GnB+pFSUhWExNs8Vj5t8rUURXt2Ej+sayBIbkZIRR4RFdQ6df6se Wdsw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0jgBUo0hqKy36Lfzk2QMntUc2edYpj0D8WH89oV0ONw=; b=hfjVN1831+Wf4Fp5pn0B9Cdad6x+zyqnXvzRstRh6ru8MXGHKozFGl1tsd3Lo8mnk2 SRaGayTMIV/FvWuMzlyI/HIunf56U8QIYJV4SXDNZFbknC8OG0yCCVRYnq/Sl+EjiGXI uRxASMjZSBJru4onEsXRJhIEYa4tCEgNm73TFutyLma+Dgto68ZQPof6H+qmlNDR33uw a8SKT444iDiqg5aYjAxCETE01c/qDBrxERj5vH5b2JP5yIpqDvfPcxdqG1cWO7ysudEK w6+SGHpwAfrccKJp8Z5TgYHQjzil1LUYGydXx7pY9+PFwgqbyvLDeJgc1EYpkEbAr0xM 8b9Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQniLIEe1xFxhpTl3fTPK9CoNxBptEktzPukz4DyIKp9zjDhpRuOVgkSQe2lpO3dI9ERZpurTWwPlvyoh2b2cyUs+PSsSAJCSPTYeoO500doJBGlLcHxQ8mKKhwM9e3I71l5hlCvL2vO1QtqavJPlDpUtupeO9CzjCjriHRYxNzBLSU/tLi4TU5BJKpP3IgohPefIRbTgvOF/bhET/WtD2uVyegvzg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.140.37.146 with SMTP id r18mr38537093qgr.61.1392715252534; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:20:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.224.207.202 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:20:52 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <2CE6081E-0AB0-4EBA-A27B-331C7201DBEF@netapp.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu> <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <CABu4T3+fAkcRhC=Hb76q-SU2M4sV2tPaiuJ1O_Dz-aOombjJNQ@mail.gmail.com> <2CE6081E-0AB0-4EBA-A27B-331C7201DBEF@netapp.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:20:52 +1100
Message-ID: <CAPRuP3n_subVE-W0M4KcBjCezx7UQH2Na_20S9VW3-SWaMm6cQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andrew Mcgregor <andrewmcgr@google.com>
To: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1628ee6b07404f2aac9fe
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/uvM-UiFJ9zDGJu-POA6rlMTrrds
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, David Mazieres expires 2014-03-21 PDT <mazieres-q62p5pu3tq8f5z455cgphqc3gn@temporary-address.scs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm] new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:20:57 -0000

--001a11c1628ee6b07404f2aac9fe
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Although, TSO doesn't buy you that much on a WAN connection where tcpcrypt
is more useful.  Take a look at the TSO autotuning in recent linuxen, and
realise that it's backing the TSO segment size right down in typical wide
area situations.


On 18 February 2014 19:10, Eggert, Lars <lars@netapp.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2014-2-18, at 7:07, Andrea Bittau <bittau@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > TSO: in the context of tcpcrypt, we're using the CPU to MAC and
> > encrypt every payload byte, and that operation will be the bottleneck
> > compared to (software-based) segmentation.  The offload probably won't
> > buy you much.
>
> I'd really like to see this benchmarked. Modern CPUs can do crypto quite
> efficiently, but the 40x call chain overheads without TSO are killer.
>
> Lars
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>
>


-- 
Andrew McGregor | SRE | andrewmcgr@google.com | +61 4 1071 2221

--001a11c1628ee6b07404f2aac9fe
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Although, TSO doesn&#39;t buy you that much on a WAN conne=
ction where tcpcrypt is more useful. =C2=A0Take a look at the TSO autotunin=
g in recent linuxen, and realise that it&#39;s backing the TSO segment size=
 right down in typical wide area situations.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 18 Februar=
y 2014 19:10, Eggert, Lars <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lars@net=
app.com" target=3D"_blank">lars@netapp.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
On 2014-2-18, at 7:07, Andrea Bittau &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bittau@cs.stanfo=
rd.edu">bittau@cs.stanford.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; TSO: in the context of tcpcrypt, we&#39;re using the CPU to MAC and<br=
>
&gt; encrypt every payload byte, and that operation will be the bottleneck<=
br>
&gt; compared to (software-based) segmentation. =C2=A0The offload probably =
won&#39;t<br>
&gt; buy you much.<br>
<br>
</div>I&#39;d really like to see this benchmarked. Modern CPUs can do crypt=
o quite efficiently, but the 40x call chain overheads without TSO are kille=
r.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Lars<br>
</font></span><br>_______________________________________________<br>
multipathtcp mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small;line-height:1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;borde=
r-color:rgb(213,15,37);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">Andrew McGregor=C2=
=A0|</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small;line-height:1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;bor=
der-color:rgb(51,105,232);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0SRE=C2=A0|<=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall;line-height:1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-c=
olor:rgb(0,153,57);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
andrewmcgr@google.com" target=3D"_blank">andrewmcgr@google.com</a>=C2=A0|</=
span><span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all;line-height:1.5em;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-co=
lor:rgb(238,178,17);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0+61 4 1071 2221</=
span><br>
</div>
</div>

--001a11c1628ee6b07404f2aac9fe--


From nobody Tue Feb 18 01:54:15 2014
Return-Path: <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02F11A0604; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:54:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.9
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eGYrfhEnpu9J; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:54:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hoemail2.alcatel.com (hoemail2.alcatel.com [192.160.6.149]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B621A0126; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:54:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by hoemail2.alcatel.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s1I9s53d000062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 03:54:07 -0600 (CST)
Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s1I9s2bZ032129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:54:05 +0100
Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.146]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:54:04 +0100
From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>, Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
Thread-Index: AQHPK2oKBJRv4QExgUu9Pzq4Nlxc5Jq5RtEAgAASU9CAAFc3AIAAD0EAgAAC84CAAAOGAIAA+j7t
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:54:03 +0000
Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>, <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu>
In-Reply-To: <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [155.132.188.47]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/qhiHkeebg0uxJBomsZPlfaVsR38
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:54:12 -0000

>>> FYI that trick was discussed for multipath tcp.  See their archives goe=
=0A=
>>> the reasons this isn't a good approach.=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Oh indeed - I realize that the tcpcrypt draft mandates the MAC on every=
=0A=
>> packet (even on empty acknowledgments).=0A=
>>=0A=
>> If the MAC would only be used on packets with data, then it would have b=
een fine.=0A=
>=0A=
> Star=0A=
=0A=
See. Not star.  Sorry for the autocorrect.=0A=
=0A=
> the multipath archives. That still won't work.=0A=
>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> The problem for MPTCP was (if I remember correctly from the archives) be=
cause a=0A=
>> zero-window announcment would prevent acknowledgments on the return-path=
.=0A=
=0A=
As individual contributor to TCPM, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to ex=
pand on this a little bit further. tcp-crypt apparently uses both options a=
nd payload for signaling (in one specific case).=0A=
=0A=
I don't recall all the past discussions of option vs. payload encoding in M=
PTCP, but out of my head a number of advantages of using options in MPTCP w=
ere:=0A=
=0A=
(1) A structure in the payload would typically need an additional memory co=
py operation in the kernel and thus result in overhead, unlike options=0A=
=0A=
(2) An option-based MPTCP architecture facilitate a basic, single-path MPTC=
P-capable endpoints ("bump-in-the-wire")=0A=
=0A=
(3) Clearer semantics of the TCP receive window (in particular if rwnd is s=
mall, deadlock situations have to be considered)=0A=
=0A=
(4) Payload is more difficult to parse in TSO engines=0A=
=0A=
Now, I wonder whether (1)-(4) applies to tcp-crypt, too?=0A=
=0A=
> If not you're using TLS. Securing the control bits ought to be equally im=
portant, though I have other problems with this draft=0A=
=0A=
As a non-security expert I would like to better understand: Is there someth=
ing missing in TCP-AO regarding securing control bits?=0A=
=0A=
Thanks, and sorry for my potentially naive questions=0A=
=0A=
Michael=0A=


From nobody Tue Feb 18 08:29:55 2014
Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34EF1A051D; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:29:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.448
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZyP-0yuAdaGs; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:29:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from darkstar.isi.edu (darkstar.isi.edu [128.9.128.127]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415961A04CB; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:29:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.91] (pool-71-105-87-112.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.105.87.112]) (authenticated bits=0) by darkstar.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1IGSq91011007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:28:55 -0800 (PST)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\))
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:28:51 -0800
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <D43BBCCE-BB45-4BA0-8D70-5F475C334F24@isi.edu>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>, <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827)
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/UjwR8luwBsvA1hlMcwVDUcw1dPs
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:29:51 -0000

On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:54 AM, Scharf, Michael (Michael) =
<michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

>>> The problem for MPTCP was (if I remember correctly from the =
archives) because a
>>> zero-window announcment would prevent acknowledgments on the =
return-path.
>=20
> As individual contributor to TCPM, I wonder if it would be worthwhile =
to expand on this a little bit further. tcp-crypt apparently uses both =
options and payload for signaling (in one specific case).
>=20
> I don't recall all the past discussions of option vs. payload encoding =
in MPTCP, but out of my head a number of advantages of using options in =
MPTCP were:
>=20
> (1) A structure in the payload would typically need an additional =
memory copy operation in the kernel and thus result in overhead, unlike =
options
>=20
> (2) An option-based MPTCP architecture facilitate a basic, single-path =
MPTCP-capable endpoints ("bump-in-the-wire")
>=20
> (3) Clearer semantics of the TCP receive window (in particular if rwnd =
is small, deadlock situations have to be considered)
>=20
> (4) Payload is more difficult to parse in TSO engines
>=20
> Now, I wonder whether (1)-(4) applies to tcp-crypt, too?

It also presents a very simple DOS attack vector - "find the MAC".

FWIW, I'm not at all concerned about this not supporting rewriting =
engines. As I noted for TCP-AO, rewriting and resegmenting are the kinds =
of attacks a TCP-level security mechanism ought to protect against.

Joe=


From nobody Tue Feb 18 12:09:39 2014
Return-Path: <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F711A0103; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:09:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.9
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gchRhXSz-K3b; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:09:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hoemail2.alcatel.com (hoemail2.alcatel.com [192.160.6.149]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695A11A0215; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:09:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by hoemail2.alcatel.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s1IK9ToH014560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s1IK9SX1015703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:09:29 +0100
Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.146]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:09:28 +0100
From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
Thread-Index: AQHPK2oKBJRv4QExgUu9Pzq4Nlxc5Jq5RtEAgAASU9CAAFc3AIAAD0EAgAAC84CAAAOGAIAA+j7tgABlGYCAAE00kA==
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:09:27 +0000
Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EA894@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>, <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <D43BBCCE-BB45-4BA0-8D70-5F475C334F24@isi.edu>
In-Reply-To: <D43BBCCE-BB45-4BA0-8D70-5F475C334F24@isi.edu>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/E-i3G1Mr1jAGS8cdmiVf64ALwJ8
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:09:37 -0000

> It also presents a very simple DOS attack vector - "find the MAC".

Maybe I am really na=EFve/stupid/tired right now, but could you explain a b=
it more what the DoS attack vector actually is? Do you refer to a scenario =
where the MAC covers several segments and has to be verified before byte st=
ream reassembly?

Thanks

Michael


From nobody Tue Feb 18 13:06:42 2014
Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3698F1A054D; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:06:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.448
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1mK5pHKdhpWt; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:06:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from darkstar.isi.edu (darkstar.isi.edu [128.9.128.127]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E497D1A05A2; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:06:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [128.9.160.166] (abc.isi.edu [128.9.160.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by darkstar.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1IL6F8H016370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:06:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <5303CB47.401@isi.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:06:15 -0800
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>, <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <D43BBCCE-BB45-4BA0-8D70-5F475C334F24@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EA894@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EA894@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/6NBtwJRcp7fIxUCasViQk9_0cJE
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:06:38 -0000

On 2/18/2014 12:09 PM, Scharf, Michael (Michael) wrote:
>> It also presents a very simple DOS attack vector - "find the MAC".
>
> Maybe I am really naïve/stupid/tired right now, but could you
> explain  a bit more what the DoS attack vector actually is? Do you refer to a
> scenario where the MAC covers several segments and has to be verified
> before byte stream reassembly?

You have to parse the entire data body to find the MAC location, rather 
than having it in a fixed, known place.

A body that you really shouldn't be looking at until you process the header.

FYI, another issue - what happens if two options try this trick (bury 
control in the data body)?

Joe


From nobody Tue Feb 18 13:35:03 2014
Return-Path: <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE2B1A03FD; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:34:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.9
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AablIQypGArF; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hoemail2.alcatel.com (hoemail2.alcatel.com [192.160.6.149]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0B31A0296; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by hoemail2.alcatel.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s1ILYpeN007168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 15:34:52 -0600 (CST)
Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s1ILYoic007914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:34:50 +0100
Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.146]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:34:50 +0100
From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
Thread-Index: AQHPK2oKBJRv4QExgUu9Pzq4Nlxc5Jq5RtEAgAASU9CAAFc3AIAAD0EAgAAC84CAAAOGAIAA+j7tgABlGYCAAE00kIAAAE2AgAARa30=
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:34:49 +0000
Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EAB6F@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>, <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <D43BBCCE-BB45-4BA0-8D70-5F475C334F24@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EA894@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>, <5303CB47.401@isi.edu>
In-Reply-To: <5303CB47.401@isi.edu>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [155.132.188.47]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/Gl9HoMUEsqnJ8Sd3fbnEirNWDUE
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:34:57 -0000

Ok, so we actually have two (hypothetical) variants, right?=0A=
=0A=
a) The protocol buries the MAC in the payload of (every?) segment, and it d=
efines a way how to find the MAC therein (e.g., it is always the first/last=
 bytes of the segment). At first sight, this is not very different to any e=
xtension of the TCP option header (long options).=0A=
=0A=
b) The protocol runs its own framing in the payload, but finding the MAC ma=
y then obviously require body reassembly and potentially requires in-order-=
delivery (what about TCP Minion?).=0A=
=0A=
Michael=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
Von: Joe Touch [touch@isi.edu]=0A=
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Februar 2014 22:06=0A=
An: Scharf, Michael (Michael)=0A=
Cc: Christoph Paasch; multipathtcp@ietf.org; tcpm@ietf.org=0A=
Betreff: Re: [tcpm] [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available=0A=
=0A=
On 2/18/2014 12:09 PM, Scharf, Michael (Michael) wrote:=0A=
>> It also presents a very simple DOS attack vector - "find the MAC".=0A=
>=0A=
> Maybe I am really na=EFve/stupid/tired right now, but could you=0A=
> explain  a bit more what the DoS attack vector actually is? Do you refer =
to a=0A=
> scenario where the MAC covers several segments and has to be verified=0A=
> before byte stream reassembly?=0A=
=0A=
You have to parse the entire data body to find the MAC location, rather=0A=
than having it in a fixed, known place.=0A=
=0A=
A body that you really shouldn't be looking at until you process the header=
.=0A=
=0A=
FYI, another issue - what happens if two options try this trick (bury=0A=
control in the data body)?=0A=
=0A=
Joe=0A=


From nobody Tue Feb 18 13:43:22 2014
Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAE71A0296; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:43:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.448
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bQIQfBVt_74d; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:43:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from darkstar.isi.edu (darkstar.isi.edu [128.9.128.127]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98E61A0277; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:43:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [128.9.160.166] (abc.isi.edu [128.9.160.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by darkstar.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1ILgjWs028344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:42:45 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <5303D3D5.2040606@isi.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:42:45 -0800
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <CABu4T3+JhOs7xwvqQW=2wVkOjMUFt-w-grzB4p2+XQY-POd59Q@mail.gmail.com> <20140217115552.GD4609@cpaasch-mac> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E91AA@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <BD1C50C0-92CC-46D6-AC04-1FFDB3D65C66@isi.edu> <20140217190812.GC5650@cpaasch-mac> <128BA48D-958A-427D-B0B8-60E4A6155718@isi.edu>, <49717166-F3BE-4C1D-82FD-9F8D8246B3CD@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1E9D91@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <D43BBCCE-BB45-4BA0-8D70-5F475C334F24@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EA894@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>, <5303CB47.401@isi.edu> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EAB6F@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D1EAB6F@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/0ErTqI3GTU1xtxJzmt0bLw2-dzk
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [tcpm]  new tcpcrypt draft available
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:43:21 -0000

On 2/18/2014 1:34 PM, Scharf, Michael (Michael) wrote:
> Ok, so we actually have two (hypothetical) variants, right?
>
> a) The protocol buries the MAC in the payload of (every?) segment,
> and it defines a way how to find the MAC therein (e.g., it is always
> the first/last bytes of the segment). At first sight, this is not
> very different to any extension of the TCP option header (long
> options).

That's not the case I was concerned about; if it's fixed, it's basically 
the same as if it is in the header (except that you have to access the 
body to get to it, but you have to access the body to verify the MAC 
anyway).

> b) The protocol runs its own framing in the payload, but finding the
> MAC may then obviously require body reassembly and potentially requires
> in-order-delivery (what about TCP Minion?).

That's the case I am thinking about; I can't see how you can get away
with not running your own framing over the body for a number of reasons.

And I won't speculate about the interaction of two protocols I don't see 
as viable individually.

Joe


>
> Michael
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: Joe Touch [touch@isi.edu]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Februar 2014 22:06
> An: Scharf, Michael (Michael)
> Cc: Christoph Paasch; multipathtcp@ietf.org; tcpm@ietf.org
> Betreff: Re: [tcpm] [multipathtcp] new tcpcrypt draft available
>
> On 2/18/2014 12:09 PM, Scharf, Michael (Michael) wrote:
>>> It also presents a very simple DOS attack vector - "find the MAC".
>>
>> Maybe I am really naïve/stupid/tired right now, but could you
>> explain  a bit more what the DoS attack vector actually is? Do you refer to a
>> scenario where the MAC covers several segments and has to be verified
>> before byte stream reassembly?
>
> You have to parse the entire data body to find the MAC location, rather
> than having it in a fixed, known place.
>
> A body that you really shouldn't be looking at until you process the header.
>
> FYI, another issue - what happens if two options try this trick (bury
> control in the data body)?
>
> Joe
>


From nobody Thu Feb 20 11:21:56 2014
Return-Path: <y1026c@motorola.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1091A024F for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.678
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NpLWfdRZL28g for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from exprod5og105.obsmtp.com (exprod5og105.obsmtp.com [64.18.0.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAC01A0252 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from il93mgrg01.am.mot-mobility.com ([144.188.21.13]) (using TLSv1) by exprod5ob105.postini.com ([64.18.4.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUwZVzpw4C2cfF9nAGOLELj/xPmM4yjne@postini.com; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:50 PST
Received: from il93mgrg01.am.mot-mobility.com ([10.22.94.167]) by il93mgrg01.am.mot-mobility.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id s1KJGeuQ001689 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:16:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mail-we0-f170.google.com (mail-we0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by il93mgrg01.am.mot-mobility.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id s1KJGd1C001678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=OK) for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:16:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: by mail-we0-f170.google.com with SMTP id w62so1843456wes.15 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=1fs6BvugE2cGSL993LI3CZzHhlMKkmTu3/mmYyARHz0=; b=m0KU//ZqUqfEURjQwRF5XK5/DfRIoCKQJwafEfdDKFxq94/S9OKwbcZZ4+qJR+hbXM 6wPDJ0Q6VUAKw6oAq1asg9tmpfKki4oeetEsBR718q5D6Zm4yQehI+AV7oFdh9x8QSvT iGzk5nTurTph0pAwjsiCtRhSbbUZYDm0gA/2w17OZaQtx07CFVkPKnM4wZ3UPwtS7bz8 gxE/oEuQUUxCdzQ7VpqjZZcgfwVTdGfDRACmJ6gzmLnF32fbvu8eSE0ikfkBUS8/PT42 +cuD8f3as/v4YTPhvNbdYKPvNY6kRu3y5J2RVVRuXN8vQcW5HldLW7etXtLkSjT3gcpP 22TA==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl6NlYJwyLSiwJR3SVKgrJYJdJrzhceiaUM4w44Hk1UxS6j1N/DfghrYzxAYTs86FYQi6Oka2vmQhgD8xnXJByMJQPE7tlzP7oBBX1v5hHMuqGifyau+cRmE+RNKVXHZnqRm4Q9O8AZuQhBOTtEgLmezrvmab6f34TOaYeSUCWezeMilV8=
X-Received: by 10.194.85.168 with SMTP id i8mr3553739wjz.81.1392924108045; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:48 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.194.85.168 with SMTP id i8mr3553735wjz.81.1392924107968; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.216.34.147 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:47 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:21:47 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEvYK_ZLMY=gNgZ-iLjV0nbSb6FEkM_KtXnavc3Qgh_VA0g=AA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Apostolis Salkintzis <salki@motorola.com>
To: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e010d7efca7b02904f2db6ad0
X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/Q2zW_1f30twybEx9BoSDuEW_mq8
Subject: [multipathtcp] Asymmetric scheduling
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:21:56 -0000

--089e010d7efca7b02904f2db6ad0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi All,

Short question: Is it possible to have different MPTCP schedulers in the
client and in the server that could lead to asymmetric use of uplink and
downlink resources? E.g. the client could send most uplink data on path#1
while the server could send most downlink data on path#2.

Thanks,
Apostolis
---
*Motorola Mobility UK Ltd.*
System Design Group - Wireless Systems Research and Standardization
Registered Office: Redwood, Crockford Lane, Chineham Business Park,
Basingstoke, RG24 8WQ
Reg. No: 6969556  - England
VAT No. GB984328092
Limited Liability Company

--089e010d7efca7b02904f2db6ad0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi All,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">
Short question: Is it possible to have different MPTCP schedulers in the cl=
ient and in the server that could lead to asymmetric use of uplink and down=
link resources? E.g. the client could send most uplink data on path#1 while=
 the server could send most downlink data on path#2.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks,</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all">
Apostolis</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small">---</div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><b><f=
ont size=3D"1">Motorola Mobility UK Ltd.</font></b></div><font size=3D"1">S=
ystem Design Group - Wireless Systems Research and Standardization<br>
Registered Office: Redwood, Crockford Lane, Chineham Business Park, Basings=
toke, RG24 8WQ<br>Reg. No: 6969556 =C2=A0- England<br>VAT No. GB984328092<b=
r>Limited Liability Company=C2=A0</font></div></div>
</div>

--089e010d7efca7b02904f2db6ad0--


From nobody Fri Feb 21 00:28:46 2014
Return-Path: <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6098D1A0006 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.463
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.463 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VPEa-zXBr14w for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (ns.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803:203:178:142:143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A5D1A04E1 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1AEB27821D for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:28:37 +0900 (JST)
Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id w7so2107750lbi.35 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=TF85U2nqY0jFCtUge3lSwWUUeFY9ZDRGO5J+SlZd+9M=; b=jiK0iSacpzVxAI0HceGW1lhevfrWb7aZBDAzIdvmlPVq+gz3liPfykFgcctPZNGbnU WxRRcNofUGV1d6YlDM7u/AdKoqTdgR5fmb3MnhdQPPP8s6Znk133B4HggYnpyKps74D0 bQsj1DsX+rzajdk9+ZN4OAvc3O9QkX00WniQG5fbVUznJXsBTnfYEbrjZ2BFJgz28Ffb utQ1g831E36Cou/DIA97JTa5BYcUbfmV0IDcq9s0TnewvzOVy7rauRkC9HYdccstRAC6 CKuBnsqmQ6VGpFR6q1JM1Ob7znGKfE5YJWUmkqfvq9asP3SEuKlexeoK0B2DOh7LzMSf Rxjg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.112.77.138 with SMTP id s10mr3346521lbw.59.1392971314976; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.114.93.3 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:34 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:28:34 -0800
Message-ID: <CAO249ycnBfuz+TX9184OCOUkGY4opgggouE7xvTqK=YFm9v8NA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3d072695ed704f2e66876
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/uRnYtCUzBk485qP77deFZcAOJHE
Subject: [multipathtcp] draft agenda for London meeting
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:28:45 -0000

--001a11c3d072695ed704f2e66876
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The draft agenda for London meeting has been uploaded.
Please check the following URL.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/mptcp/

Also, we are currently thinking about running WGLC for
draft-ietf-mptcp-attacks after the meeting as it seems to be good shape.
If you have comments or questions on the draft, please send them to the ML
or speak up in the meeting.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil

--001a11c3d072695ed704f2e66876
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New =
Roman&#39;;font-size:medium">The draft agenda for London meeting has been u=
ploaded.=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New =
Roman&#39;;font-size:medium">
Please check the following URL.</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fa=
mily:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;font-size:medium"><br></div><div style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;font-size:medium"><a h=
ref=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/mptcp/">https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/mptcp/</a><br>
</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;=
font-size:medium"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39=
;Times New Roman&#39;;font-size:medium">Also, we are currently thinking abo=
ut running WGLC for draft-ietf-mptcp-attacks after the meeting as it seems =
to be good shape.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;font-s=
ize:medium">If you have comments or questions on the draft, please send the=
m to the ML or speak up in the meeting.</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;font-size:medium">
<br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#=
39;;font-size:medium">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fami=
ly:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;font-size:medium">--</div><div style=3D"color:=
rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;;font-size:medium">
Yoshi &amp; Phil</div></div>

--001a11c3d072695ed704f2e66876--


From nobody Fri Feb 21 18:14:30 2014
Return-Path: <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291A71A0354 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:14:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.301
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Gh61Hp6L0F8 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EF11A036A for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:14:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (unknown [216.9.110.9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: cpaasch@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86579198012; Sat, 22 Feb 2014 03:14:15 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 86579198012
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393035256; bh=zeI4i5N+RtcPxzdeGaSc87n7i/5wEwksyU/uQkNnMjM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:In-Reply-To; b=eGL08skLL5+corI/ZfS7duZnWFGkMcijvhaLs7GiNSQXXgR5ZAPvJATxjfU0c2tb+ lAbXhklmxyjRPC/B6MGQfCp0buNFEbnqHZTbcG05u6yFcYYmEa8Zl+b27cNwTWrubr 3LTpFZ0qbxbTv8ErWjoVS3KcxqYqpi+R0EbzOeZ0=
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 03:14:09 +0100
From: Christoph Paasch <christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be>
To: Apostolis Salkintzis <salki@motorola.com>
Message-ID: <20140222021409.GD5255@cpaasch-mac>
References: <CAEvYK_ZLMY=gNgZ-iLjV0nbSb6FEkM_KtXnavc3Qgh_VA0g=AA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAEvYK_ZLMY=gNgZ-iLjV0nbSb6FEkM_KtXnavc3Qgh_VA0g=AA@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 86579198012.ABD37
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: christoph.paasch@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/NuMESU-eVNlnukB8mgVADQqFVqc
Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Asymmetric scheduling
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 02:14:29 -0000

Hello,

On 20/02/14 - 21:21:47, Apostolis Salkintzis wrote:
> Short question: Is it possible to have different MPTCP schedulers in the
> client and in the server that could lead to asymmetric use of uplink and
> downlink resources? E.g. the client could send most uplink data on path#1
> while the server could send most downlink data on path#2.

yes, each end-host is free to use his own heuristics when scheduling the
traffic among the different subflows.


Cheers,
Christoph


From nobody Mon Feb 24 09:06:12 2014
Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15091A0202 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:06:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.601
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CWZ6-oQEPwE0 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:06:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9871C1A01FD for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:06:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mbpobo.dhcp.info.ucl.ac.be (unknown [172.17.0.12]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9658F19805F for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:05:57 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 9658F19805F
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393261557; bh=ZNlBYDkx30OkKiHF2qLcA+dHqiixBokhCIln/Tqq4PQ=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pm6eYsELxa912JMQjSq6DOgR/aF1JQJIxUDvhRhqlkjlWPd+VmLh+XNdLTV27XJc9 uU9Wpllt0B6/XnKNl01ig8+3Rzf0gYUEYE0tJZfQJ0ta5g1d3vIYDcpgvHGdyjXAOG 2wkmt7Q87cDaN48hpA4Qvf0YNJHVMOr0KSRUs3ew=
Message-ID: <530B7BF5.5090901@uclouvain.be>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:05:57 +0100
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 9658F19805F.A133F
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/f7PWkjUeoWPicHgQ_9EIiFukbkM
Subject: [multipathtcp] Operational experience with Multipath TCP
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:06:08 -0000

Hello,


The charter of the MPTCP working group contains the following objective :

  > Prior to publishing a Standards Track specification, the working
  > group will document experimental results and operational experiences
to-date.
  > This should consider not just experience with well-connected fat-pipe
  > networks and long-lived flows, but also consider a broader links and
  > types of applications; particularly looking for cases where MPTCP
  > could be detrimental in some way.

We know from interactions on this mailing list and also based on 
personnal contacts that there are several operationnal deployments of 
Multipath TCP that use our implementation in the Linux kernel and even 
wider deployments on iOS7 devices. In order to prepare the above 
objective of the MPTCP charter, we are seeking input from all MPTCP 
users and experimenters.

If you use MPTCP in production, could you send a message on this list 
(or privately if you prefer to remain anonymous) indicating your use 
case and the lessons that you've learned by using Multipath TCP. All 
operationnal experience is welcome and will help us to document how 
Multipath TCP is used, the benefits that it provides and the possible 
operationnal drawbacks that it has.

If you have written a paper or blog post that describes measurement 
results of lessons based on operationnal experience, let us know.


Thanks


Olivier Bonaventure



From nobody Mon Feb 24 17:01:19 2014
Return-Path: <sam.xiongchunshan@huawei.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BEA1A02F8 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:01:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.848
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gVDKQ1V7lycZ for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:01:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C40C1A028A for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:01:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BBL89724; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:01:13 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:01:06 +0000
Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:01:11 +0000
Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.209]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:01:08 +0800
From: "Xiongchunshan (Sam)" <sam.xiongchunshan@huawei.com>
To: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MPTCP] draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00
Thread-Index: AQHPMcUQCcA/D77dAEK5uAzkbuJ1mw==
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:01:07 +0000
Message-ID: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607C@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com>
Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US
Content-Language: zh-CN
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [10.111.64.75]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607Cnkgeml507mbschi_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/9sLAnjNX_aipUeHudxG-DGiwJ_A
Subject: [multipathtcp] [MPTCP] draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 01:01:18 -0000

--_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607Cnkgeml507mbschi_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

SGVsbG8gZm9sa3MsDQoNCkhlcmUgSSBoYXZlIHNvbWUgY29tbWVudHMgb24gdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVu
dDoNCg0KMSkNCjUuMiAgVHJhZmZpYyBtZWRpYXRpb24NCiAgIChhKSBBbmNob3Jpbmcgb2Ygc3Vi
LWZsb3cgdHJhZmZpYzogT24gb25lIGhhbmQsIGl0IGlzIG5vdCBhbHdheXMNCiAgIHBvc3NpYmxl
IGZvciBhIHNpbmdsZSBHVyBiZSBzaXR0aW5nIG9uIHRoZSBwYXRoIG9mIGV2ZXJ5IHN1Yi1mbG93
DQogICBmcm9tIGEgTVBUQ1Agc2Vzc2lvbiwgaGVuY2UgZXhwbGljaXQgdHJhZmZpYyBhbmNob3Jp
bmcgdG8gZW5hYmxlIGENCiAgIHNpbmdsZSBwb2ludCBvZiBnZW5lcmFsIGNvbnRyb2wgb3ZlciBN
UFRDUCBzdWItZmxvd3Mgc2hvdWxkIGJlDQogICBjb25zaWRlcmVkLg0KICAgKGIpIE1lZGlhdGlv
biBvZiBzdWItZmxvdyB0cmFmZmljOiBPbiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgaGFuZCwgZm9yIGZpbmUtDQogICBn
cmFpbmVkIG1lZGlhdGlvbiBvZiBzdWItZmxvdyB0cmFmZmljLCBib3RoIHN0YXRpYyBhbmQgZHlu
YW1pYw0KICAgc2VsZWN0aW9uL29mZmxvYWRpbmcvcG9vbGluZyBwb2xpY2llcyBzaG91bGQgYmUg
YWxsb3dlZC4gRm9yDQogICBpbnN0YW5jZSwgImFsd2F5cyBwcmVmZXIgV2ktRmkgb3ZlciAzR1BQ
IiBjb3VsZCBiZSBhIHN0YXRpYyBwb2xpY3kNCiAgIGZvciBidWxrIGRhdGEgdHJhbnNmZXIgc2Vy
dmljZXMsIHdoaWxlICJ1c2UgM0dQUCBvbmx5IGZvciBiYWNrdXANCiAgIHVubGVzcyBXaS1GaSBp
cyBjb25nZXN0ZWQiIGNvdWxkIGJlIGEgZHluYW1pYyBvZmZsb2FkaW5nIHBvbGljeSBmb3IgYQ0K
ICAgdW4tcHJpb3JpdGl6ZWQgVm9JUCBzZXJ2aWNlLg0KW3hjc11RdWVzdGlvbiBmb3IgY2xhcmlm
aWNhdGlvbjogSG93IGRvZXMgdGhlIE1QVENQIHByb3h5IGtub3cgdGhlIGJpbmRpbmcgaW5mb3Jt
YXRpb24gYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgSVAgYW5kIFJBVCA/ICBUaGUgbW9iaWxlIG5vZGUga25vd3Mgd2hp
Y2ggSVAgaXMgYWxsb2NhdGVkIGZyb20gd2hpY2ggUkFULCBidXQgaXQgaXMgdmVyeSBoYXJkIGZv
ciB0aGUgTVBUQ1AgUHJveHkgaW4gdGhlIGNvcmUgbmV0d29yayB0byBrbm93IHRoZXNlIG1hcHBp
bmcgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uDQpPbmUgcG9zc2libGUgc29sdXRpb24gaXMgdGhlIFBDUkYgKGRlZmlu
ZWQgaW4gdGhlIDNHUFApIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgdGhlc2UgYmluZGluZyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0byB0
aGUgTVBUQ1AgcHJveHkgaWYgdGhlIE1QVENQIHByb3h5IHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIHRoZSB0cmFmZmlj
IG1lZGlhdGlvbiBvciBsZXQgdGhlIG1vYmlsZSB0byBkbyB0aGUgdHJhZmZpYyBtZWRpYXRpb24u
DQoNCkFub3RoZXIgcXVlc3Rpb24gaXMgaG93IHRoZSBydWxlcyAoZS5nLiAiYWx3YXlzIHByZWZl
ciBXaS1GaSBvdmVyIDNHUFAiKSBhcmUgcHJvdmlkZWQgdG8gdGhlIE1QVENQIFByb3h5IG9yIHRo
ZSBtb2JpbGUgPyBGb3IgdGhlIE1QVENQIHByb3h5LCBpdCBpcyBhZ2FpbiB0aGUgUENSRjsgZm9y
IHRoZSBtb2JpbGUgLCBpdCBpcyB0aGUgQU5EU0YgPw0KDQoNCjIpDQo0LjIgUmVzb3VyY2UgcG9v
bGluZyBmb3IgcmVkdWNlZCBleHBlbnNlDQogICBEdWUgdG8gaXRzIGxvdyBjb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24g
YW5kIG9wZXJhdGlvbiBleHBlbnNlcywgV2ktRmkgaGFzIGJlZW4NCiAgIGFkb3B0ZWQgYnkgbW9i
aWxlIG9wZXJhdG9ycyBhcyBhIGNvbXBsZW1lbnRhcnkgUkFUIGZvciB0aGVpcg0KICAgdHJhZGl0
aW9uYWwgM0dQUCBuZXR3b3Jrcy4gSG93ZXZlciwgZGlmZmVyZW50IGNvbnN0cnVjdGlvbiBhbmQN
CiAgIG9wZXJhdGlvbiBleHBlbnNlcyBvZiB2YXJpb3VzIHJhZGlvIG5ldHdvcmtzIHJlc3VsdCBp
biBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBpbg0KICAgY2hhcmdpbmcgcmF0ZXMvcG9saWNpZXMgZm9yIGRpZmZlcmVu
dCBSQVRzLg0KICAgRm9yIGluc3RhbmNlLCBXaS1GaSBhY2Nlc3MgbWF5IGJlIGNoYXJnZWQgYnkg
dGhlIGFjY2VzcyBkdXJhdGlvbiwNCiAgIHdoaWxlIHRoZSAzR1BQIGFjY2VzcyBtYXkgYmUgY2hh
cmdlZCBieSB0aGUgY29uc3VtZWQgZGF0YSB2b2x1bWUuDQogICBFdmVuIGlmIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBz
YW1lIHBvbGljeSwgV2ktRmkgc2VydmljZSBpcyBleHBlY3RlZCB0byBiZSBtdWNoDQogICBjaGVh
cGVyIHRoYW4gM0dQUCBkYXRhIHNlcnZpY2UuDQogICBNb3Jlb3ZlciwgZGlmZmVyZW50IHN1YnNj
cmlwdGlvbiBwYWNrYWdlcyBtYXkgb2ZmZXIgdmFyaW91cyBkYXRhDQogICBwbGFucyBmb3IgdmFy
aW91cyBSQVRzLiBGb3IgaW5zdGFuY2UsIGEgYmFzaWMgNEcgcGFja2FnZSBtYXkgY29udGFpbg0K
ICAgZnJlZSBkYXRhIHZvbHVtZSBhcyB3ZWxsIGZyZWUgV2ktRmkgYWNjZXNzIHRvby4NCiAgIEJ5
IGVuYWJsaW5nIE1QVENQIHNlc3Npb24gYmV0d2VlbiBVRSBhbmQgbmV0d29yayBwcm94eSwgdmlh
IG1lZGlhdGluZw0KICAgc3ViLWZsb3cgZGF0YSB0cmFmZmljIGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZWlyIFJhZGlv
IGFjY2VzcyB0eXBlcyBhbmQgdGhlDQogICB1c2Vy4oCZcyBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24gcGFja2FnZSwg
aXQgaXMgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gZnVydGhlciByZWR1Y2UgdGhlDQogICB1c2FnZSBleHBlbnNlcyBm
cm9tIGJvdGggc2lkZXMgb2YgdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgYW5kIHVzZXIuDQoNClt4Y3NdIGl0IHdpbGwg
YmVuZWZpdCB0aGUgdXNlciBpZiB0aGUgdXNlcuKAmXMgZXhwZW5zZSBvZiBkYXRhIHVzYWdlIGlz
IHJlZHVjZWQsIGlmIHRoZSBXaUZpIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gaXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGFuZCBjaGFyZ2lu
ZyBmZWUgaXMgdmVyeSBsb3csIG1heWJlIGFsbCB0aGUgdHJhZmZpYyBmcm9tIHRoZSA0RyBhcmUg
bW92ZWQgdG8gdGhlIFdpRmkgYnkgdGhlIE1QVENQIHByb3h5LCBhbmQgdGhlIG1vYmlsaXR5IGFu
ZCBRb1Mgb2YgdGhlIHNlcnZpY2UgbWF5YmUgYXJlbuKAmXQgZW5zdXJlZCwgc28gaXQgaXMgcHJv
cG9zZWQgdG8gYWRkaW5nIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgc2VudGVuY2UgdG8gdGhlIGVuZCBvZiB0aGlz
IGNoYXB0ZXI6DQpUaGUgUW9TL1FvRS9TZXJ2aWNlIGNvbnRpbnVpdHkgb2YgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQg
ZGF0YSBzZXJ2aWNlcyBhcmUgc3RpbGwga2VwdCB3aGVuIHRoZSBNUFRDUCBwcm94eSBpcyB1c2Vk
IHRvIHJlZHVjZSB0aGUgdXNlcuKAmXMgdXNhZ2UgZXhwZW5zZXMuDQoNCkEgYXNzdW1wdGlvbiBm
b3IgcmVkdWNpbmcgdXNlciBleHBlbnNlIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIFdpRmkgY29ubmVjdGlvbiBpcyBh
Y3RpdmF0ZWQgYmVmb3JlaGFuZCwgYnV0IHNvbWV0aW1lcyB0aGUgV2lGaSBjb25uZWN0aW9uIGlz
buKAmXQgYWN0aXZhdGVkIG9yIGEgd3JvbmcgV2lGaSBBUCBpcyBzZWxlY3RlZCBieSB0aGUgdXNl
ciggdGhhdCBNUFRDUCBQcm94eSBjYW7igJl0IGFjY2VzcyB0aGUgV2lGaSBJUCBmbG93KSwgdGhh
dCBpcywgb25lIGhhbmQsIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIG5lZWQgdG8gY29udHJvbCB0aGUgTVBUQ1AgUHJv
eHkgdG8gbWVkaWF0ZSB0aGUgSVAgZmxvd3MsIGFub3RoZXIgaGFuZCwgdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgc2hv
dWxkIHRlbGwgdGhlIG1vYmlsZSB0byBvcGVuIHdoaWNoIFJBVC9XaUZpIHRvIG1ha2UgdGhlIE1Q
VENQIFByb3h5IHdvcmsuICBpLmUuIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIHNob3VsZCBwcm92aWRlIHNvbWUgaW5m
b3JtYXRpb24gdG8gdGhlIFVFICwgdG8gZ3VpZGUgdGhlIFVFIHRvIHNlbGVjdCBhbmQgb3BlbiBh
bm90aGVyIFJBVCB0byBlbmFibGUgdGhlIE1QVENQLg0KDQoNCjMpDQo0LjEgRHluYW1pYyB0cmFm
ZmljIG9mZmxvYWRpbmcgYmFzZWQgb24gbmV0d29yayBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbg0KICAgRm9yIHJlYWwt
dGltZSBpbnRlcmFjdGl2ZSBzZXJ2aWNlcyB3aXRoIGhpZ2hlciBRb1MgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGl0
IGlzDQogICBleHBlY3RlZCB0aGF0IDNHUFAgbmV0d29yayBjYW4gcHJvdmlkZSBiZXR0ZXIgZ3Vh
cmFudGVlcyBvbiB0aGUNCiAgIGF2ZXJhZ2UgY2FzZS4gRm9yIGJ1bGsgZGF0YSB0cmFuc2ZlciB3
aG8gaXMgc2F0aXNmaWVkIHdpdGggYmVzdC0NCiAgIGVmZm9ydCBkZWxpdmVyeSwgV2ktRmkgd291
bGQgYmUgYSBncmVhdCBjaG9pY2UuIEJ1dCB0aGUgdmVydGljYWwNCiAgIHBhcnRpdGlvbiBkb2Vz
IG5vdCBmaXQgZXZlcnl3aGVyZSBmb3IgdGhlIHdpcmVsZXNzIGNvbmRpdGlvbiBpdHNlbGYNCiAg
IGlzIHF1aXRlIGR5bmFtaWMgYW5kIGhhcmQgdG8gcHJlZGljdC4gSXQgaXMgaW1wb3J0YW50IHRv
IGltcGxlbWVudA0KICAgYWRhcHRpdmUgb2ZmbG9hZGluZyBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGluIG9yZGVyIHRv
IGFjaGlldmUgaGlnaGVyIHJlc291cmNlDQogICB1dGlsaXR5IHdpdGggZXZlciBjaGFuZ2luZyBy
YWRpbyBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCBmb3IgYSBwb3NzaWJseSBtb3ZpbmcNCiAgIHRlcm1pbmFsIGJhc2Vk
IG9uIG5ldHdvcmsgc3RhdHVzLCBlLmcuIGNlbGwgbG9hZCwgQVDigJlzIHNpZ25hbA0KICAgaW50
ZW5zaXR5LCB1c2Vy4oCZcyBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24gdHlwZSwgZXRjLg0KW3hjc11UaGUgc2FtZSBx
dWVzdGlvbiBmcm9tIDEpOiAgSG93IGRvZXMgdGhlIE1QVENQIFByb3h5L1VFIGtub3cgdGhlIG5l
dHdvcmsgc3RhdHVzID8gVGhlIFBDUkYvQU5EU0YgcHJvdmlkZXMgdGhlc2UgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24g
dG8gdGhlIE1QVENQIFByb3h5L1VFID8NCg0KDQoNCkJScw0KQ2h1bnNoYW4gWGlvbmcNCkh1YXdl
aSBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgQ28uLCBMdGQuDQoNCg0K

--_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607Cnkgeml507mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607Cnkgeml507mbschi_--


From nobody Tue Feb 25 08:56:14 2014
Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A161A017B for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:56:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.601
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vh7ldbR1rZN4 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:56:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130D41A0183 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:56:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wifi-eduroam-016.sri.ucl.ac.be (wifi-eduroam-016.sri.ucl.ac.be [192.135.167.16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 36D2F198055 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:56:04 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 36D2F198055
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393347364; bh=gJxJw+dkjBDnQIsSuz1dzjwnBVtE9cY1W3oY9g+KLaU=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=MUDp3+4FKDvnMMewgV0xK7EBsKv6ntWzWA6t3MWQsFzfTCCc9CZWNmJCFpCGbx6Yv bbaQRsMjfdP78RGxkkyayEBZ45mU5FQGXRUZODuP0zAfM+F7zs8qiJ8gsz9dCsLDtT hO2xAOc1h5XPyCF+ES/k0LM569QkokuHdHH57hSQ=
Message-ID: <530CCB23.9060300@uclouvain.be>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:56:03 +0100
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 36D2F198055.A1AC9
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/ZyyZV2bzfSD-qcw7GmBhJ5P4ZdQ
Subject: [multipathtcp] Extending draft-paasch-mptcp-ssl-00
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:56:13 -0000

Hello,


In RFC6824, the subflows are authenticated by relying on the keys that 
are exchanged in clear during the three way handshake of the initial 
subflow. From a security viewpoint, exchanging short keys in clear is 
not the best option.

In draft-paasch-mptcp-ssl-00, we proposed to allow an application to 
provide its chosen authentication key to Multipath TCP in order to use 
it to authenticate the establishment of subflows. This draft used 
SSL/TLS as a motivation but we did not specify in details how the 
authentication keys would be derived from the SSL/TLS session keys.

I spent some time to look at TLS1.2 to see how this idea of using keys 
from the application for Multipath TCP could be applied to this version 
of TLS.

TLS1.2 exchanges a master secret during the TLS handshake and random 
numbers from the client and the server. This information is then 
combined as follows (RFC5246) :

       key_block = PRF(SecurityParameters.master_secret,
                       "key expansion",
                       SecurityParameters.server_random +
                       SecurityParameters.client_random);

    until enough output has been generated.  Then, the key_block is
    partitioned as follows:

       client_write_MAC_key[SecurityParameters.mac_key_length]
       server_write_MAC_key[SecurityParameters.mac_key_length]
       client_write_key[SecurityParameters.enc_key_length]
       server_write_key[SecurityParameters.enc_key_length]
       client_write_IV[SecurityParameters.fixed_iv_length]
       server_write_IV[SecurityParameters.fixed_iv_length]


The PRF is currently P_SHA256. Some TLS profiles only generate MAC and 
write keys but no write IVs from this PRF.

To use these keys to authenticate the establishment of the Multipath TCP 
subflows, there are several options that probably have different 
security properties :

  a- Use the client_write_MAC_key/server_write_MAC_key as is
  b- Derive a new client_write_MPTCP/server_write_MPTCP keypair by using 
the PRF
  c- Use a hash of some keys (e.g. 
client_write_MAC_key||server_write_MAC_key on the client)


If Multipath TCP is implemented in the kernel and requires the key to 
accept/reject subflows, then leaking a copy of the key to the kernel 
(option a) is not a good option from a security viewpoint. This solution 
might work if the Multipath TCP implementation can do an upcall to TLS 
upon the arrival of a new subflow to compute the HMAC required for the 
authentication, but this would add complexity to the Multipath TCP 
implementations.

Option b (generating a new Multipath TCP specific key) is more secure, 
but for each combinaison of crypto functions in TLS we need to define a 
profile that includes the generation of the Multipath TCP key. It might 
be difficult to deploy such a solution.

Option c seems easier since the same hash can be used for all TLS 
profiles, but I'm wondering what are the security implications of 
leaking a hash of the MAC_keys to the Multipath TCP kernel.

Any idea on this ?



Olivier
-- 
INL, ICTEAM, UCLouvain, Belgium, http://inl.info.ucl.ac.be


From nobody Tue Feb 25 13:19:21 2014
Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F8F1A030C for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:19:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.402
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NP7AVr_2U9aN for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:19:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850211A02A7 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mbpobo.local (host-212-68-230-69.brutele.be [212.68.230.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0AD71C541B for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 22:18:51 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be A0AD71C541B
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393363131; bh=bKi3fZg6RqW2dxXbdPp4RXA3g1uAeFoiNf50IerurEg=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WiJx3brjjjoRZIAuxKOdxQqXNYpgUaDsHypc6IAE4r0VFeYnFJInJtIQX8RDzkTL3 0UG+IwkfzY2evhy0j+hda6mHOigVIWY3IOEx6/cuOiXMt8pr8EnFrAijZyGsIRHI5C cRqKH6dJNjqQ0Swd5O+vW7jDul2c42Dd3YNzCk24=
Message-ID: <530D08BB.9080004@uclouvain.be>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 22:18:51 +0100
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-6.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: A0AD71C541B.A1EE7
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/qI0DpGjDAfJtyfMxDP23k-1baF0
Subject: [multipathtcp] Hash function usage in Multipath TCP
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:19:15 -0000

Hello,

Multipath TCP, as defined in RFC6824, currently uses the SHA-1 hash 
function for three purposes :

  - derive the Token from the keys exchanged in clear during the 
three-way-handshake
  - derive the Initial Data Sequence Number from the keys exchanged in 
clear during the three-way-handshake
  - authenticate the establishment of the subflows by using a HMAC 
computed over the keys exchanged in clear and random nonces


Most of the protocols that rely on hash functions include a method to 
negotiate the hash function that is used for a particular invocation of 
the protocol.

In Multipath TCP, it seems a bit difficult to easily add the support for 
another has function in a secure manner.

The current version of RFC6824 contains the following statement 
concerning the flags in the MP_CAPABLE option in the SYN segment

> C through H:  The remaining bits, labeled "C" through "H", are used
>       for crypto algorithm negotiation.  Currently only the rightmost
>       bit, labeled "H", is assigned.  Bit "H" indicates the use of HMAC-
>       SHA1 (as defined in Section 3.2).  An implementation that only
>       supports this method MUST set bit "H" to 1, and bits "C" through
>       "G" to 0.

Setting bit H to 1 is the current default in Multipath TCP. By using 
bits C, D, E, F and G, we could define other hash functions in case 
SHA-1 is broken and considered to be insecure for Multipath TCP.

Later, RFC6824 notes :

>    For crypto negotiation, the responder has the choice.  The initiator
>    creates a proposal setting a bit for each algorithm it supports to 1
>    (in this version of the specification, there is only one proposal, so
>    bit "H" will be always set to 1).  The responder responds with only 1
>    bit set -- this is the chosen algorithm.  The rationale for this
>    behavior is that the responder will typically be a server with
>    potentially many thousands of connections, so it may wish to choose
>    an algorithm with minimal computational complexity, depending on the
>    load.  If a responder does not support (or does not want to support)
>    any of the initiator's proposals, it can respond without an
>    MP_CAPABLE option, thus forcing a fallback to regular TCP.

If we replace SHA-1 with another hash function, we thus need to define a 
new bit to propose this new hash function. According to the above texte, 
the client could propose the new hash and SHA-1 (by setting the H bit) 
or only the new hash.

 From a security viewpoint, doing this negotiation of the has functions 
in clear may lead to downgrading attacks where an attacker resets the 
bit corresponding to the hash that he/she does not want to support. 
Given that the SYN is only "protected" by a standard checksum, this 
attack is simple. However, this does not seem to be very severe since if 
the attacker is able to change the content of the SYN, he/she can 
already read the authentication keys...

Should we already define a new hash functions inside RFC6824bis ?

If yes, then we probably need to structure the Multipath TCP RFCs as for 
TCP-AO, i.e. :

  - a first document defines the protocol with abstract crypto 
functions, basically most of the current RFC6824
  - a second document specifies the crypto algorithms can be used with 
all their requirements parameters

If we go in the direction, are there strong preferences for a second 
hash function for Multipath TCP ?


Olivier

-- 
INL, ICTEAM, UCLouvain, Belgium, http://inl.info.ucl.ac.be


From nobody Tue Feb 25 14:34:00 2014
Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329E11A079D for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:33:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.601
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URdV1DNCwMG5 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:33:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5306C1A07A3 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mbpobo.local (host-212-68-230-69.brutele.be [212.68.230.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D0811833E2; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 23:33:36 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp6.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 6D0811833E2
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393367616; bh=QSebj5vT7OTlyAac1xkD0RCjMMsbv2Bhf58edmFU5rU=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KXSPkC8zSr8Jf0VcdfQD0N5u9rknU3A1PVI9O4Zge5UWvN3lwM5tNeplBS7IdNj8H NHM0qndU9qwy/940SPAREVm/GDz+8z9MEh8NrGjTPzNxn+/d6EOCXoLdSZGdabX+e1 1AlkB08s7VIi/CtrGrdUTCMjtiOcuBEb+89S9NvE=
Message-ID: <530D1A40.4050708@uclouvain.be>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 23:33:36 +0100
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>, multipathtcp@ietf.org
References: <20140214160043.25045.90052.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2afb52fe3cd3acc-0000a.Richmail.00009030405128129702@chinamobile.com> <CAHWmbsMw-f8CbJX_mXXEEEcjV6HsmchZrzq0yuQWGY13G-F77Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHWmbsMw-f8CbJX_mXXEEEcjV6HsmchZrzq0yuQWGY13G-F77Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-6.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 6D0811833E2.A06B7
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/u6UR7AwXmUvI3RGbuou4hwuBRew
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Fwd: Fw:New Version Notification fordraft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 22:33:55 -0000

Hello,

> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt
> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00.txt>
>

Please find below some first comments on your draft.

 >3 Considerations for MPTCP Proxy

An important motivation that is missing from the draft is that nowadays, 
although there are hundred of millions of MPTCP enabled smartphones, 
there are very few servers that support MPTCP. In the past, measurements 
have shown that TCP extensions (RFC1323, SACK, ...) have been deployed 
first on clients and that it took many years to enable these TCP 
extensions on the server side.

The main reasons for the slow evolution on the server side appears to be :

  - the need to upgrade the load balancers, firewalls and other 
middelboxes in front of the servers
  - the desire of system administrators to only use very stable 
operating system releases

On the server side, we may have to wait several years until Multipath 
TCP becomes widely deployed. In the mean time, a proxy-based solution 
that supports all TCP connections would enable clients such as 
smartphones to benefit from Multipath TCP.


 > 4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information


> For bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best-
>    effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical
>    partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself
>    is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to implement
>    adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource
>    utility with ever changing radio environment for a possibly moving
>    terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, AP's signal
>    intensity, user's subscription type, etc.

Our experience with Multipath TCP on smartphones shows that the main 
benefit of MPTCP compared to other solutions where the network would 
favor WiFi over 3G or the opposite is that MPTCP has all the information 
about the current quality of the WiFi and 3G links.

We've seen WiFI access points that provide a very good SNR, but are 
attached to a crappy and overload ADSL link.

We've also seen areas where 3G does not work efficiently while WiFi 
works and the opposite. Sometimes, by moving a few meters, the 
smartphone gets connectivity or no connectivity from one wireless 
network. It seems unlikely that a static solution that would say always 
prefer 3G for chat and always prefer WiFi for video would always work. 
There are many situations where you need both WiFi and 3G at the same 
time, e.g. to perform a seamless handover during a few seconds while moving.

> 4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense


There are many WiFi networks to which the user has credentials and that 
he/she wants to use that are not controlled by 3G operators. See for 
example campus networks covering schools, some city-wide networks being 
deployed, community networks like FON that aggregate millions of access 
points in Europe. Users expect to be able to use all these networks more 
efficiently thanks to Multipath TCP.

> 5.1  Protocol transition
>
>    To allow a MPCTP-enabled UE to make full use of the multiple radio
>    interfaces even if it is communicating with a non-MPTCP server, the
>    proxy should support
>
>    (a) Detection of UE's MPTCP capability;
>
>    (b) Negotiation with MPTCP UE on behalf of non-MPTCP SP;
>
>    (c) Translation/Mapping between TCP and MPTCP sessions.


For points a and b, do you have any requirements beyond the utilization 
of the standard MP_CAPABLE option that allows to perfor this negotiation ?

(c) requires the ability to support MPTCP upstream of the proxy and TCP 
downstream of the proxy. In contrast with application level proxies such 
as HTTP proxies, an MPTCP proxy should be application agnostic and 
should support any type of application that runs on top of TCP.


> 5.2  Traffic mediation
>
>    (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always
>    possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow
>    from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a
>    single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows should be
>    considered.


This can be achieved by providing to the smartphone the addresses of the 
proxies so that the smartphone uses them as relays when creating new 
MPTCP connections. Implicit proxies with in-network redirection like 
WCCP are possible as well, but as you note, it is difficult to ensure 
that all traffic will always flow through a given part of the network, 
especially if the transport connections are long lived

>    (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine-
>    grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic
>    selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed.

I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean by subflow traffic

>    For
>    instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy
>    for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup
>    unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for a
>    un-prioritized VoIP service.

Do you foresee more complex policies than the ones allowed by using the 
backup bit defined in Multipath TCP ? Would these policies be imposed by 
the network operator, configured on the client devices ?


Best regards,



Olivier


-- 
INL, ICTEAM, UCLouvain, Belgium, http://inl.info.ucl.ac.be


From nobody Tue Feb 25 21:20:52 2014
Return-Path: <denglingli@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5121A1A0416 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:20:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 3.151
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.151 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K2pcOvcQpOpo for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:20:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ve0-x22f.google.com (mail-ve0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C251A02D5 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:20:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ve0-f175.google.com with SMTP id oy12so1623342veb.20 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:20:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;  h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xsWN4DkNgOZ0xN6PGUjBijRANzVtv4cJOlbZuFnv4Jg=; b=GLNgMLf/Jooe1CJ3d+IKWGwManvaiphXRiEtXglP8L07lDSZXV99ETxYAPl0B9rDZ/ 1rU54UlEGW/1/F21uxZD7U8SeonWGSZLxVCbRbcUpw4yZKlynEPlP7bxb3v4DCLzdZGz XsQr23N+r1NIS+cVgvWz6N3fWa3BZOe5FVg+4aNl9BfIHtfEdOI5KppMms5mt/oNCcmm ypF/Nwe4dMi3d0t4jyW8liwRmc1nSUpICn56BILS1v2s2pAJc+Wc2wMbOMdTH8fPr6PT b8VLGysMS9pZOBCDHDmpBfbcrwNWo7oW2VlW1cam0LuqB65DvIwmNkowzOFEwGhu1qwq SobQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.58.37.232 with SMTP id b8mr4274123vek.27.1393392040200; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:20:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.58.100.212 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:20:40 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607C@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com>
References: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607C@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 13:20:40 +0800
Message-ID: <CAHWmbsMEf7Y+Bx9NTADMimjnh0XUEpdoO6WPH_=khyas+VcOWw@mail.gmail.com>
From: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>
To: "Xiongchunshan (Sam)" <sam.xiongchunshan@huawei.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01176de596ccea04f3485d17
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/aKe6SkZ3oQQmqMTzCtLkJNkDuS4
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [MPTCP] draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 05:20:48 -0000

--089e01176de596ccea04f3485d17
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your review and comments.
Plz see some initial comments inline:

Lingli


2014-02-25 9:01 GMT+08:00 Xiongchunshan (Sam) <sam.xiongchunshan@huawei.com=
>
:

>  Hello folks,
>
>
>
> Here I have some comments on this document:
>
>
>
> 1)
>
> 5.2  Traffic mediation
>
>    (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always
>
>    possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow
>
>    from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a
>
>    single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows should be
>
>    considered.
>
>    (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine-
>
>    grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic
>
>    selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed. For
>
>    instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy
>
>    for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup
>
>    unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for a
>
>    un-prioritized VoIP service.
>
> [xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the bindin=
g
> information between the IP and RAT ?  The mobile node knows which IP is
> allocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the MPTCP Proxy in the
> core network to know these mapping information.
>

*[dll] For 3GPP access networks, the core knows the RAT type as the time of
PDP connection setup. For WLAN, there has been interworking standards via
PDG (packet data gateway) which does the IP binding. So the core network
knows the mapping, and there is a need to integrate MPTCP proxy with
existing architecture to get this information.*


>  One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide these
> binding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy performance the
> traffic mediation or let the mobile to do the traffic mediation.
>

*[dll] I agree that interface with PCRF could be a solution to provide
binding information from the network side, as well as acquiring mediation
policy.*

>
>
> Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP")
> are provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP proxy, it i=
s
> again the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ?
>
>
>

*[dll] Yes, PCRF would be a candidate in the case of proxy mediation and
ANDSF has been proposed to be used by 3GPP for network selection. However,
just for discussion, I personally prefer proxy-based mediation, as it may
not always be proper to rely on the terminal for network-driven policy
enforcement. Therefore, I would suggest we **currently **focuse on
proxy-mediation case. Would you agree?*


>
> 2)
>
> 4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense
>
>    Due to its low construction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been
>
>    adopted by mobile operators as a complementary RAT for their
>
>    traditional 3GPP networks. However, different construction and
>
>    operation expenses of various radio networks result in differences in
>
>    charging rates/policies for different RATs.
>
>    For instance, Wi-Fi access may be charged by the access duration,
>
>    while the 3GPP access may be charged by the consumed data volume.
>
>    Even if using the same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much
>
>    cheaper than 3GPP data service.
>
>    Moreover, different subscription packages may offer various data
>
>    plans for various RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may contain
>
>    free data volume as well free Wi-Fi access too.
>
>    By enabling MPTCP session between UE and network proxy, via mediating
>
>    sub-flow data traffic based on their Radio access types and the
>
>    user=A1=AFs subscription package, it is possible to further reduce the
>
>    usage expenses from both sides of the network and user.
>
>
>
> [xcs] it will benefit the user if the user=A1=AFs expense of data usage i=
s
> reduced, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is very low=
,
> maybe all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by the MPTCP prox=
y,
> and the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren=A1=AFt ensured, so it =
is
> proposed to adding the following sentence to the end of this chapter:
>
> *The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still
> kept when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user=A1=AFs usage expense=
s.*
>

*[dll] Good point. I agree.*

>
>
> A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection is
> activated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn=A1=AFt activa=
ted or
> a wrong WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP Proxy can=A1=AFt acce=
ss the
> WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to control the MPTCP
> Proxy to mediate the IP flows, another hand, the network should tell the
> mobile to open which RAT/WiFi to make the MPTCP Proxy work.  i.e. the
> network should provide some information to the UE , to guide the UE to
> select and open another RAT to enable the MPTCP.
>
>
>
*[dll] I agree that it is of great value for mobile terminals to be more
intelligent in enabling multiple interfaces based on network provided
information. But how it is done seems to be out of scope of a MPTCP proxy
discussion.*

>
>
> 3)
>
> 4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information
>
>    For real-time interactive services with higher QoS requirements it is
>
>    expected that 3GPP network can provide better guarantees on the
>
>    average case. For bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best-
>
>    effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical
>
>    partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself
>
>    is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to implement
>
>    adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource
>
>    utility with ever changing radio environment for a possibly moving
>
>    terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, AP=A1=AFs signal
>
>    intensity, user=A1=AFs subscription type, etc.
>
> [xcs]The same question from 1):  How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the
> network status ? The PCRF/ANDSF provides these information to the MPTCP
> Proxy/UE ?
>

 *[dll] Plz refer to the above comments^^*

>
>
> BRs
>
> Chunshan Xiong
>
> Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>
>


--=20
=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng
=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA/China Mobile Researc=
h Institute
e-mail: denglingli@chinamobile.com
tel: 15801696688-3367
mobile: 13810597148

--089e01176de596ccea04f3485d17
Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Sam,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your review and comm=
ents.</div><div>Plz see some initial comments inline:</div><div><br></div><=
div>Lingli</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">
2014-02-25 9:01 GMT+08:00 Xiongchunshan (Sam) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:sam.xiongchunshan@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">sam.xiongchunsha=
n@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">






<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello folks,<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I have some comments on th=
is document:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">5.2&nbsp; Traffic mediation<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; (a) Anchoring of s=
ub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; possible for a sin=
gle GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; from a MPTCP sessi=
on, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; single point of ge=
neral control over MPTCP sub-flows should be<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; considered.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; (b) Mediation of s=
ub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine-<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;grained mediation =
of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; selection/offloadi=
ng/pooling policies should be allowed. For<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; instance, &quot;al=
ways prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP&quot; could be a static policy<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; for bulk data tran=
sfer services, while &quot;use 3GPP only for backup<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; unless Wi-Fi is co=
ngested&quot; could be a dynamic offloading policy for a<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; un-prioritized VoI=
P service.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[xcs]Question for clarification=
: How does the MPTCP proxy know the binding information between the IP and =
RAT ? &nbsp;The mobile node knows which IP is allocated from which RAT, but=
 it is very hard for the MPTCP Proxy in the
 core network to know these mapping information.</span></p></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div><strong style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;=
font-size:14px">[dll] For 3GPP access networks, the core knows the RAT type=
 as the time of PDP connection setup. For WLAN, there has been interworking=
 standards via PDG (packet data gateway) which does the IP binding. So the =
core network knows the mapping, and there is a need to integrate MPTCP prox=
y with existing architecture to get this information.</strong></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">One possible solution is the PC=
RF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide these binding information to the MPTCP =
proxy if the MPTCP proxy performance the traffic mediation or let the mobil=
e to do the traffic mediation.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><strong style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">[dll] I agree that interface with PCRF coul=
d be a solution to provide binding information from the network side, as we=
ll as acquiring mediation policy.</strong>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Another question is how the rul=
es (e.g. &quot;always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP&quot;) are provided to the MPT=
CP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP proxy, it is again the PCRF; for the=
 mobile , it is the ANDSF ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div><strong style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:14px">[dll] Yes, PCRF would be a candidate in the case of proxy=
 mediation and ANDSF has been proposed to be used by 3GPP for network selec=
tion. However, just for discussion, I personally prefer proxy-based mediati=
on, as it may not always be proper to rely on the terminal for network-driv=
en policy enforcement. Therefore, I would suggest we&nbsp;</strong><strong =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">currently&nbsp;</stro=
ng><strong style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">focuse on =
proxy-mediation case. Would you agree?</strong>&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"=
purple">
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">4.2 Resource pooling for reduce=
d expense<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Due to its low con=
struction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; adopted by mobile =
operators as a complementary RAT for their<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; traditional 3GPP n=
etworks. However, different construction and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; operation expenses=
 of various radio networks result in differences in<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; charging rates/pol=
icies for different RATs.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; For instance, Wi-F=
i access may be charged by the access duration,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; while the 3GPP acc=
ess may be charged by the consumed data volume.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Even if using the =
same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; cheaper than 3GPP =
data service.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Moreover, differen=
t subscription packages may offer various data<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; plans for various =
RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may contain<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; free data volume a=
s well free Wi-Fi access too.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; By enabling MPTCP =
session between UE and network proxy, via mediating<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; sub-flow data traf=
fic based on their Radio access types and the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; user&rsquo;s subsc=
ription package, it is possible to further reduce the<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; usage expenses fro=
m both sides of the network and user.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[xcs] it will benefit the user =
if the user&rsquo;s expense of data usage is reduced, if the WiFi connectio=
n is available and charging fee is very low, maybe all the traffic from the=
 4G are moved to the WiFi by the MPTCP proxy,
 and the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren&rsquo;t ensured, so it =
is proposed to adding the following sentence to the end of this chapter:<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:42.15pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still kep=
t when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user&rsquo;s usage expenses.</=
span></b></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><strong style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">[dll] Good point. I agree.</strong>&nbsp;</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"text-indent:42.15pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A assumption for reducing user =
expense is that the WiFi connection is activated beforehand, but sometimes =
the WiFi connection isn&rsquo;t activated or a wrong WiFi AP is selected by=
 the user( that MPTCP Proxy can&rsquo;t access the
 WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to control the MPTCP Pr=
oxy to mediate the IP flows, another hand, the network should tell the mobi=
le to open which RAT/WiFi to make the MPTCP Proxy work. &nbsp;i.e. the netw=
ork should provide some information to
 the UE , to guide the UE to select and open another RAT to enable the MPTC=
P.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></=
blockquote><div><strong style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">[dll] I agree that it is of great&nbsp;value for mobile terminals to be =
more intelligent in enabling multiple interfaces based on network provided =
information. But how it is done seems to be out of scope of a MPTCP proxy d=
iscussion.</strong>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">3)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading =
based on network information<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; For real-time inte=
ractive services with higher QoS requirements it is<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; expected that 3GPP=
 network can provide better guarantees on the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; average case. For =
bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best-<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; effort delivery, W=
i-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; partition does not=
 fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; is quite dynamic a=
nd hard to predict. It is important to implement<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; adaptive offloadin=
g mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; utility with ever =
changing radio environment for a possibly moving<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; terminal based on =
network status, e.g. cell load, AP&rsquo;s signal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; intensity, user&rs=
quo;s subscription type, etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[xcs]The same question from 1):=
 &nbsp;How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the network status ? The PCRF/ANDSF=
 provides these information to the MPTCP Proxy/UE ?</span></p></div></block=
quote>
<div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;<strong style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:14px">[dll] Plz refer to the above comments^^</strong>&nbsp;</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BRs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Chunshan Xiong<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:=BB=AA=CE=C4=CF=B8=BA=DA">Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
multipathtcp mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=B5=CB=
=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng<br>=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=
=BF=D4=BA/China Mobile Research Institute<br>e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:deng=
lingli@chinamobile.com">denglingli@chinamobile.com</a><br>tel: 15801696688-=
3367<br>
mobile: 13810597148<br>
</div></div>

--089e01176de596ccea04f3485d17--


From nobody Wed Feb 26 03:52:41 2014
Return-Path: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DA51A02BE for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 03:52:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EwSYpxLo7_QR for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 03:52:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtpe1.intersmtp.com (smtpe1.intersmtp.com [62.239.224.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707D41A02B6 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 03:52:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EVMHT64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net (10.36.3.101) by RDW083A008ED64.bt.com (10.187.98.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.169.1; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:51:16 +0000
Received: from EMV67-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net ([169.254.1.168]) by EVMHT64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net ([10.36.3.101]) with mapi; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:52:12 +0000
From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:52:12 +0000
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] draft agenda for London meeting
Thread-Index: Ac8u3vC1bXYCLV1iQJOQsu7B9092sQECeUfA
Message-ID: <A2E337CDB7BC4145B018B9BEE8EB3E0D40AD0EBF51@EMV67-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net>
References: <CAO249ycnBfuz+TX9184OCOUkGY4opgggouE7xvTqK=YFm9v8NA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO249ycnBfuz+TX9184OCOUkGY4opgggouE7xvTqK=YFm9v8NA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A2E337CDB7BC4145B018B9BEE8EB3E0D40AD0EBF51EMV67UKRDdoma_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/kwc4AVlBXh6nClABteNv9DhHCgQ
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] draft agenda for London meeting
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:52:29 -0000

--_000_A2E337CDB7BC4145B018B9BEE8EB3E0D40AD0EBF51EMV67UKRDdoma_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please could presenters send me their slides by the end of Sunday.
A couple of volunteers to take notes of the meeting would be fantastic.

I re-ordered the agenda slightly (to minimise the awkwardness of the clash =
with ippm)

Thanks
phil

From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yosh=
ifumi Nishida
Sent: 21 February 2014 08:29
To: multipathtcp
Subject: [multipathtcp] draft agenda for London meeting

The draft agenda for London meeting has been uploaded.
Please check the following URL.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/mptcp/

Also, we are currently thinking about running WGLC for draft-ietf-mptcp-att=
acks after the meeting as it seems to be good shape.
If you have comments or questions on the draft, please send them to the ML =
or speak up in the meeting.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil

--_000_A2E337CDB7BC4145B018B9BEE8EB3E0D40AD0EBF51EMV67UKRDdoma_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:=
//www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=
=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Micros=
oft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
	color:blue;
	font-weight:normal;
	font-style:normal;
	text-decoration:none none;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Please could presenters send me=
 their slides by the end of Sunday. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>A couple of=
 volunteers to take notes of the meeting would be fantastic.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>I re-ordered the agenda sl=
ightly (to minimise the awkwardness of the clash with ippm)<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";=
color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:b=
lue'>phil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><di=
v><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0c=
m 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> multipathtcp =
[mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Yoshifumi Nishid=
a<br><b>Sent:</b> 21 February 2014 08:29<br><b>To:</b> multipathtcp<br><b>S=
ubject:</b> [multipathtcp] draft agenda for London meeting<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>The draft agend=
a for London meeting has been uploaded.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Please=
 check the following URL.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:bla=
ck'><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/mptcp/">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/mptcp/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Also, we are currently thinking about runnin=
g WGLC for draft-ietf-mptcp-attacks after the meeting as it seems to be goo=
d shape.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>If you have comments or questions on the =
draft, please send them to the ML or speak up in the meeting.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;col=
or:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>--<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:13.5pt;color:black'>Yoshi &amp; Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></d=
iv></div></body></html>=

--_000_A2E337CDB7BC4145B018B9BEE8EB3E0D40AD0EBF51EMV67UKRDdoma_--


From nobody Thu Feb 27 00:45:55 2014
Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08741A07C1 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:45:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.601
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KaWtT4Q0ckYE for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:45:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43C351A066A for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mbpobo.local (host-212-68-230-69.brutele.be [212.68.230.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F3CD19809C; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:45:32 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 9F3CD19809C
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393490732; bh=Sw8uEfAhx69mZJxMMtImCv0cplmV9NA8si2aDzuHlfM=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ol5f9duePG/0eit85kA2+VoM2YB41LxD7RFmmBcWs/Vu3vEAiwGX8M3/UpGQMXi3o uqVXJewCsUmA/0qUKNJqDpHZwBh2QjtyZ+pLVYb9JWTgFzEKpEcL2HuPEjHO1wd4Sg pJhuDAzwsuJkF0hK2N0iTgNjlQmKH9TfcsKYYy5g=
Message-ID: <530EFB2C.2090200@uclouvain.be>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:45:32 +0100
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>,  "Xiongchunshan (Sam)" <sam.xiongchunshan@huawei.com>
References: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112607C@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> <CAHWmbsMEf7Y+Bx9NTADMimjnh0XUEpdoO6WPH_=khyas+VcOWw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHWmbsMEf7Y+Bx9NTADMimjnh0XUEpdoO6WPH_=khyas+VcOWw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 9F3CD19809C.A4B6A
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/T9EXYV3EBfqTYaWdFT1mcpdhdek
Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] [MPTCP] draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:45:49 -0000

Hello,

>
>     [xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the
>     binding information between the IP and RAT ?  The mobile node knows
>     which IP is allocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the
>     MPTCP Proxy in the core network to know these mapping information.
>
>
> *[dll] For 3GPP access networks, the core knows the RAT type as the time
> of PDP connection setup. For WLAN, there has been interworking standards
> via PDG (packet data gateway) which does the IP binding. So the core
> network knows the mapping, and there is a need to integrate MPTCP proxy
> with existing architecture to get this information.*

For MPTCP, the client gets several IP addresses, say one from the WLAN 
and one from the 3G network. A proxy solution should allow the client to 
start the MPTCP connection through the proxy either via the WLAN 
interface or via the 3G interface. It should not be bound to a specific 
network (say 3G) and force the client to always start over this network. 
There are mobility scenarios where only one network is available when a 
connection starts and this connection must pass through the proxy to 
benefit from mptcp in the future.

>     ____
>
>     One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide
>     these binding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy
>     performance the traffic mediation or let the mobile to do the
>     traffic mediation.
>
>
> *[dll] I agree that interface with PCRF could be a solution to provide
> binding information from the network side, as well as acquiring
> mediation policy.*

An MPTCP proxy should not be restricted to a given technology. The 
client should be able to learn the address of the proxy that it needs to 
use (e.g. based on its location, subscription information or the network 
that it is currently connected to, ...). There could be some way to 
distribute this information from the 3GPP network, but it should not be 
the only way

>     ____
>
>     ____
>
>     Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over
>     3GPP") are provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP
>     proxy, it is again the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ?____
>
>
> *[dll] Yes, PCRF would be a candidate in the case of proxy mediation and
> ANDSF has been proposed to be used by 3GPP for network selection.
> However, just for discussion, I personally prefer proxy-based mediation,
> as it may not always be proper to rely on the terminal for
> network-driven policy enforcement. Therefore, I would suggest we
> **currently **focuse on proxy-mediation case. Would you agree?*
>

In the case of WLANs, and in particular WLANs that are not controlled by 
the network operator, the terminal has often more information about the 
quality of the network (both WLAN and 3G) than the network itself. We 
should exploit this information and not only rely on the network.



>     [xcs] it will benefit the user if the user’s expense of data usage
>     is reduced, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is
>     very low, maybe all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by
>     the MPTCP proxy, and the mobility and QoS of the service maybe
>     aren’t ensured, so it is proposed to adding the following sentence
>     to the end of this chapter:____
>
>     *The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are
>     still kept when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user’s usage
>     expenses.*
>
>
> *[dll] Good point. I agree.*


Reducing the user expenses (assuming that WiFi is cheaper than 3G) is 
one use case for an MPTCP proxy, but this is by far not the only one. 
Other use cases include :

  - improving performance by using simultaneously WiFi and 3G
  - improving quality of experience by allowing the terminal to use 
either WiFi or 3G automatically without asking the user to manually 
switch between the two interfaces
  - avoid being stuck with "open" WiFi networks that provide an IP 
address but use a captive portal where the user has to log in. Today, 
many users of smartphones are frustrated when their smartphone stops 3G 
to attach to such a WiFi network that they cannot use (but the 
smartphone tries sometimes for several minutes)
  - ...

>     ____
>
>     ____
>
>     A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection
>     is activated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn’t
>     activated or a wrong WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP
>     Proxy can’t access the WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, the network
>     need to control the MPTCP Proxy to mediate the IP flows, another
>     hand, the network should tell the mobile to open which RAT/WiFi to
>     make the MPTCP Proxy work.  i.e. the network should provide some
>     information to the UE , to guide the UE to select and open another
>     RAT to enable the MPTCP.____
>
> *[dll] I agree that it is of great value for mobile terminals to be more
> intelligent in enabling multiple interfaces based on network provided
> information. But how it is done seems to be out of scope of a MPTCP
> proxy discussion.*

A proxy should not be limited to some specific networks that are 
controlled by the network operator. Users expected to be able to use 
whatever WiFi for which they have the necessary credentials and MPTCP is 
able to use whatever WiFi has long as it provides a reachable IP address.



Olivier

-- 
INL, ICTEAM, UCLouvain, Belgium, http://inl.info.ucl.ac.be


From nobody Thu Feb 27 01:24:34 2014
Return-Path: <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20821A003B for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.464
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.464 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bHBzRgZSRZpd for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (ns.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803:203:178:142:143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FEF1A0137 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D6DAD2780E6 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 18:24:23 +0900 (JST)
Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id mc6so1517394lab.27 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=koImmoBHMnxMG1i6xgXeIGD00QtzY4CoRUz/J61zoDM=; b=Ff1F/aMzPoZTQHaxLCouRrv3ogLupRqKg+rexo73K5Xm8LFbeJWuL9BfVsYlXMuA+K Cs3zdJ8dUZaWyx+FU/kKgAJyapz7je0LvMbs/s5qINU3VvR1u+1Tpj09W+rqwLA6POBX 9c/YwotN9DR/bfCxBZ9KdhliM4e+hMRkYsN0ddHs2C+lH887jkdyPXRdZiNm+2l2yYCi PUnhSHEYZ0ru2H0hY1NRxuMzNeiJRt5XtsjdgbbmDUqaBYp9DXdHdaEpN3VlG1CE2WVq b0Qh0Xj/HnPMQRSfneTWPUEhcEOuQ/wTWWhJuqWIGm9u0lTp+jZmOkQtisQBzRVTSEhF EF2A==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.152.203.193 with SMTP id ks1mr5973292lac.0.1393493061034; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.114.93.3 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:20 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <530D08BB.9080004@uclouvain.be>
References: <530D08BB.9080004@uclouvain.be>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:24:20 -0800
Message-ID: <CAO249yd1kAir_svA3nF8HzCivJCWPUfEjU4zoa0nAYBh6bf7hA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113470d2e6682704f35fe271
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/HHBUL7HUlFr7WbFyKnfqJuJE6Ik
Cc: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Hash function usage in Multipath TCP
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:24:32 -0000

--001a113470d2e6682704f35fe271
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Olivier,

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Olivier Bonaventure <
Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:
>
>
> If we replace SHA-1 with another hash function, we thus need to define a
> new bit to propose this new hash function. According to the above texte,
> the client could propose the new hash and SHA-1 (by setting the H bit) or
> only the new hash.
>
> From a security viewpoint, doing this negotiation of the has functions in
> clear may lead to downgrading attacks where an attacker resets the bit
> corresponding to the hash that he/she does not want to support. Given that
> the SYN is only "protected" by a standard checksum, this attack is simple.
> However, this does not seem to be very severe since if the attacker is able
> to change the content of the SYN, he/she can already read the
> authentication keys...
>

I don't see strong benefits for protecting downgrading attacks as you
mentioned.
Also, if they don't want to downgrade, I guess they should set only the bit
for the hash they want.

>
> Should we already define a new hash functions inside RFC6824bis ?
>
> If yes, then we probably need to structure the Multipath TCP RFCs as for
> TCP-AO, i.e. :
>
>  - a first document defines the protocol with abstract crypto functions,
> basically most of the current RFC6824
>  - a second document specifies the crypto algorithms can be used with all
> their requirements parameters
>
> If we go in the direction, are there strong preferences for a second hash
> function for Multipath TCP ?
>
> Hmm. I see your point. But, how many hashes we want to specify now?
If we just add one more hash to the current spec, the second doc will be
thin, it might not be a problem, though..

--
Yoshifumi

--001a113470d2e6682704f35fe271
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Olivier,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Olivier Bonaventure <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" target=3D"=
_blank">Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1p=
x;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex">



<br>
If we replace SHA-1 with another hash function, we thus need to define a ne=
w bit to propose this new hash function. According to the above texte, the =
client could propose the new hash and SHA-1 (by setting the H bit) or only =
the new hash.<br>



<br>
>From a security viewpoint, doing this negotiation of the has functions in c=
lear may lead to downgrading attacks where an attacker resets the bit corre=
sponding to the hash that he/she does not want to support. Given that the S=
YN is only &quot;protected&quot; by a standard checksum, this attack is sim=
ple. However, this does not seem to be very severe since if the attacker is=
 able to change the content of the SYN, he/she can already read the authent=
ication keys...<br>


</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t see strong benefits for protec=
ting downgrading attacks as you mentioned.</div><div>Also, if they don&#39;=
t want to downgrade, I guess they should set only the bit for the hash they=
 want.</div>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><br>
Should we already define a new hash functions inside RFC6824bis ?<br>
<br>
If yes, then we probably need to structure the Multipath TCP RFCs as for TC=
P-AO, i.e. :<br>
<br>
=A0- a first document defines the protocol with abstract crypto functions, =
basically most of the current RFC6824<br>
=A0- a second document specifies the crypto algorithms can be used with all=
 their requirements parameters<br>
<br>
If we go in the direction, are there strong preferences for a second hash f=
unction for Multipath TCP ?<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></blockquote><div>Hmm. I see your point. But, how many ha=
shes we want to specify now?</div><div>If we just add one more hash to the =
current spec, the second doc will be thin, it might not be a problem, thoug=
h..</div>

<div><br></div><div>--</div><div>Yoshifumi</div></div></div></div>

--001a113470d2e6682704f35fe271--


From nobody Thu Feb 27 02:05:07 2014
Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A50C71A07F8 for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 02:05:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.301
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XvsnZEKfWYIU for <multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 02:05:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582ED1A0188 for <multipathtcp@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 02:05:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mbpobo.local (host-212-68-230-69.brutele.be [212.68.230.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A56911E5C9; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:04:55 +0100 (CET)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 6A56911E5C9
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1393495495; bh=83m+8z3091vFu6ZSJ2e7JgmryIohVhBZfrvBTmf6nAU=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wSMgHaVFaHbESLdSBAt0SA23VbmWn4Mu8KnY8kOuRZDjgPX617ksTDlV1Ls8WePwH qWgpRzBPmYzxWSVH8XenQTyS7Rd1CJDeGqa8Z8OetBf9DcarelZZUFciqE/qwfESCq RtTGvgGJ/k5UcB1VqFUoVor+uVX791vGLql9ZcPk=
Message-ID: <530F0DC7.3060707@uclouvain.be>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:04:55 +0100
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
References: <530D08BB.9080004@uclouvain.be> <CAO249yd1kAir_svA3nF8HzCivJCWPUfEjU4zoa0nAYBh6bf7hA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO249yd1kAir_svA3nF8HzCivJCWPUfEjU4zoa0nAYBh6bf7hA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.7-exp at smtp-5.sipr-dc.ucl.ac.be
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, 
X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 6A56911E5C9.A3772
X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be
X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/0WDNnBFnLAEm_J6xsMC3DZrEa8E
Cc: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Hash function usage in Multipath TCP
X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP <multipathtcp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/multipathtcp/>
List-Post: <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>, <mailto:multipathtcp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:05:06 -0000

Yoshifumi,
>
>
>     If we replace SHA-1 with another hash function, we thus need to
>     define a new bit to propose this new hash function. According to the
>     above texte, the client could propose the new hash and SHA-1 (by
>     setting the H bit) or only the new hash.
>
>      >From a security viewpoint, doing this negotiation of the has
>     functions in clear may lead to downgrading attacks where an attacker
>     resets the bit corresponding to the hash that he/she does not want
>     to support. Given that the SYN is only "protected" by a standard
>     checksum, this attack is simple. However, this does not seem to be
>     very severe since if the attacker is able to change the content of
>     the SYN, he/she can already read the authentication keys...
>
>
> I don't see strong benefits for protecting downgrading attacks as you
> mentioned.
> Also, if they don't want to downgrade, I guess they should set only the
> bit for the hash they want.

What I meant is the following

client sends SYN with MP_CAPABLE indicating HASH1+HASH2
attacker removes HASH2 from SYN
server replies with HASH1 in SYN+ACK

If client sends SYN with MP_CAPABLE and only HASH2, it should reply with 
RST if it receives HASH1 in SYN+ACK


>
>     Should we already define a new hash functions inside RFC6824bis ?
>
>     If yes, then we probably need to structure the Multipath TCP RFCs as
>     for TCP-AO, i.e. :
>
>       - a first document defines the protocol with abstract crypto
>     functions, basically most of the current RFC6824
>       - a second document specifies the crypto algorithms can be used
>     with all their requirements parameters
>
>     If we go in the direction, are there strong preferences for a second
>     hash function for Multipath TCP ?
>
> Hmm. I see your point. But, how many hashes we want to specify now?
> If we just add one more hash to the current spec, the second doc will be
> thin, it might not be a problem, though..

The second document could even only contain a single hash (SHA-1 today). 
If we need to expand the hash functions without chaning MPTCP, we simply 
need to update this second document.

We might want to reserve some bits (e.g. 3) in the MP_CAPABLE option for 
the selection of the hash functions that are to be defined in the second 
document


Olivier


-- 
INL, ICTEAM, UCLouvain, Belgium, http://inl.info.ucl.ac.be

