From nobody Mon Apr 4 07:09:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3DA12D57B; Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:09:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.18.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160404140925.15671.94443.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 07:09:25 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: [multipathtcp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-04.txt X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:09:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multipath TCP of the IETF. Title : Use Cases and Operational Experience with Multipath TCP Authors : Olivier Bonaventure Christoph Paasch Gregory Detal Filename : draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-04.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2016-04-04 Abstract: This document discusses both use cases and operational experience with Multipath TCP in real world networks. It lists several prominent use cases for which Multipath TCP has been considered and is being used. It also gives insight to some heuristics and decisions that have helped to realize these use cases. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mptcp-experience/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 5 10:06:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC84612D858 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:06:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RdgA6FmeC8k4 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpb1.bt.com (smtpb1.bt.com [62.7.242.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F16FF12D8A9 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EPDAG01C-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.204) by EVMED03-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:05:53 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) by EPDAG01C-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.204) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:05:57 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:05:56 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:05:57 +0100 From: To: , Thread-Topic: Draft MPTCP agenda Thread-Index: AQHRhvDzN5RMzze7DEWH1bzolLJwop97rMsg Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:05:56 +0000 Message-ID: <43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <8907cfb4c3414b7f9d0a05ba3492ab7f@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> In-Reply-To: <8907cfb4c3414b7f9d0a05ba3492ab7f@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.187.101.36] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Draft MPTCP agenda X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:06:07 -0000 --_000_43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please let me know if you can help with note-taking and monitoring the jabb= er during our WG meeting tomorrow Thanks! From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of phil= ip.eardley@bt.com Sent: 25 March 2016 20:49 To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: [multipathtcp] Draft MPTCP agenda Hi, I uploaded a draft agenda. Please let us know of changes that may be needed thanks Phil & Yoshi https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-mptcp --_000_43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please let me know if yo= u can help with note-taking and monitoring the jabber during our WG meeting tomorrow

Thanks!

 = ;

From: = multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of philip.eardley@bt.com
Sent: 25 March 2016 20:49
To: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: [multipathtcp] Draft MPTCP agenda

 

H= i,

I= uploaded a draft agenda. Please let us know of changes that may be needed<= o:p>

t= hanks

&= nbsp;

P= hil & Yoshi

<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-mptcp">https= ://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-mptcp=

--_000_43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_-- From nobody Tue Apr 5 11:50:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C563812D58B for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:50:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ioQ98QdWDgVN for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41B1412D11C for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f178.google.com (mail-yw0-f178.google.com [209.85.161.178]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1DAFB27821C for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:50:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-yw0-f178.google.com with SMTP id i84so21757772ywc.2 for ; Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:50:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJKv60vNJRJ4IAAFcK2PnP4v2wJVb/RPDhPV5jRR4VEff7UxVeX1UuMzQpvtC3HO0YxyImfZsChaekH+VA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.111.197 with SMTP id k188mr10368653ywc.287.1459882243766; Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.196.3 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <8907cfb4c3414b7f9d0a05ba3492ab7f@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> <43eb0b0023ec4eaea317c4e8aa656ed2@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:50:43 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Yoshifumi Nishida To: "philip.eardley" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114932308de149052fc15221 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Draft MPTCP agenda X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 18:50:50 -0000 --001a114932308de149052fc15221 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Also, if you are a presenter, please send your slide to us this afternoon if you haven't done yet. -- Yoshi On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 10:05 AM, wrote: > Please let me know if you can help with note-taking and monitoring the > jabber during our WG meeting tomorrow > > Thanks! > > > > *From:* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *philip.eardley@bt.com > *Sent:* 25 March 2016 20:49 > *To:* multipathtcp@ietf.org > *Subject:* [multipathtcp] Draft MPTCP agenda > > > > Hi, > > I uploaded a draft agenda. Please let us know of changes that may be needed > > thanks > > > > Phil & Yoshi > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-mptcp > > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp > > --001a114932308de149052fc15221 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Also, if you are a presenter, please send your sli= de to us this afternoon if you haven't done yet.
--
Yoshi


On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 10:05 AM, <philip.eardley@bt.= com> wrote:

Please let me know if you can help wi= th note-taking and monitoring the jabber during our WG meeting tomorrow

Thanks!

=C2=A0

From: = multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of philip.eardley@bt.com
Sent: 25 March 2016 20:49
To: multi= pathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: [multipathtcp] Draft MPTCP agenda

=C2=A0

H= i,

I= uploaded a draft agenda. Please let us know of changes that may be needed<= u>

t= hanks

= =C2=A0

P= hil & Yoshi

<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-mptcp" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-mptcp=


_______________________________________________
multipathtcp mailing list
multipathtcp@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp=


--001a114932308de149052fc15221-- From nobody Wed Apr 6 10:48:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A4F12D70C for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:48:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RJc_2HyY1J2p for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro (fml.cs.pub.ro [141.85.227.188]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5850E12D164 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 273F31A60133 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:48:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14DD81A6012B for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:48:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: from 192-168-0-101.rdsnet.ro (unknown [188.25.7.87]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EA7051A60115 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:47:59 +0300 (EEST) From: Costin Raiciu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:47:59 +0300 To: MultiPath WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2070.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:48:04 -0000 Hi all, I first have to admit that I missed the MPTCP version number bump. While I see it has a few benefits, from what I heard in Christoph=E2=80=99= s talk I am not convinced the change is worth those benefits. I=E2=80=99ll= take them in turn: - the SYN cookie reliability bug - a nice feature, but not enough to = change version number - after all, TCP works fine without it! - the load balancer support - we have a solution that requires no = protocol changes whatsoever and works fine at datacenter scale. Will = present it in the next meeting. - the TLS key integration - I honestly see no benefit - if you have e2e = encryption, the actual routing of paths doesn=E2=80=99t matter that much = honestly. The attacker could DDos, at most. Now about drawbacks: we have a feeble deployment so far. If we bump the = version number, we=E2=80=99ll basically have two protocols running in = parallel, since it=E2=80=99s unlikely all (any) implementations will = support both. So we might kill MPTCP before its even born. But maybe = I=E2=80=99m just being pessimistic. I understand there was WG consensus during the last meeting - I missed = that. Was there a call on the WG mailing list? I think this subject is = important enough that it gets more discussion. Thanks. Costin From nobody Wed Apr 6 13:21:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55FB12D667 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:21:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H8E4gj-vEC84 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F8F212D0BC for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u36KLh1F014699 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:21:43 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BC261FA5 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:21:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id nlWEeYPCmpBN; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:21:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ijon.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (dhcp-a36e.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.163.110]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15BA161FAB; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:21:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:21:38 -0300 Message-ID: <87shyyxzcd.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: multipathtcp@ietf.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Wed, 06 Apr 2016 22:21:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 57056FD7.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 57056FD7.004 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 57056FD7.004 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Cc: Matthieu Boutier Subject: [multipathtcp] Clarifications and pointers re MP-TCP with single-homed hosts X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:21:48 -0000 Hi, I intervened today after the MP-TCP with single-homed hosts to mention that this is very close to what we're doing in Homenet with Source-Specific routing (SADR) and IPv6. The general approach is to distribute multiple IPv6 addresses to hosts, one per ISP, and to route towards the right edge router by looking at the source address. No further protocol changes are necessary -- we just send plain RAs with multiple autoconf prefixes; I believe that something similar is possible with stateful DHCPv6, but I'm not a specialist and would rather not make a fool of myself. We were delighted to find out that MP-TCP works out of the box with this style of multhihoming. No changes are necessary -- you just put MP-TCP on the client and the server, and magically your traffic starts flowing through multiple links. I almost cried. If you'll forgive me some self-promotion, our work was described in detail in Matthieu Boutier and Juliusz Chroboczek. Source-specific routing. In Proc. IFIP Networking 2015. 2015 available online at http://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.0445v4.pdf . -- Juliusz Chroboczek From nobody Wed Apr 6 14:45:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2DC12D778 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:44:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l5R0BETYWSu7 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in4.apple.com (mail-out4.apple.com [17.151.62.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2CC012D0B0 for ; 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Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11973e12-f79796d0000053c5-62-57058354b7ba Received: from chive.apple.com (chive.apple.com [17.128.115.15]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id B7.61.28643.45385075; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-disposition: inline Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from localhost ([17.153.16.198]) by chive.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O5800GK6F2PXE90@chive.apple.com> for multipathtcp@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: cpaasch@apple.com Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 18:44:50 -0300 From: Christoph Paasch To: Costin Raiciu Message-id: <20160406214450.GA1732@dhcp-a286.meeting.ietf.org> References: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> In-reply-to: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (08e81162482f) (2015-08-30) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FAYpRvSzBpu0Hxe3eLz6utsDoweS5b8 ZApgjOKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DK6N06j6lgtVDFrJeZDYwX+LoYOTkkBEwkevvvsUDYYhIX7q1n 62Lk4hAS2MsocXrWZHaYogNblrOB2EIC05gk+rdogti8AoISPyaDNHNwMAvISxy5lA0SZhaQ lnj0dwY7RFhdYsqUXIiRrUwSOxffZASpERaQlOi+c4cZxGYRUJWYvO4l2Co2AS2Jt7fbWUFs EQFtibs/FrFBzNSQmLTmCAtEr7vEjdsn2SBOsJP4cQjmNBuJG1Ofgc3kFLCVuHz+CdhMUQFj iaYjc5hBjpAQ6GGT+LJmA9sERtFZSF6YhfDCLCQvzEJ4YQEjyypGodzEzBzdzDwTvcSCgpxU veT83E2MoDiYbie0g/HUKqtDjAIcjEo8vAJWLOFCrIllxZW5hxilOViUxHlvJrKGCwmkJ5ak ZqemFqQWxReV5qQWH2Jk4uCUamBsWjgtfaX1ixwL7UMbHSZ5rrl1UE3hlN3rKK2wyZZfJlw9 +eSl2qona71jbscmxdnmcyx333Bw3QTrys09KbubFOK4b03ueXnZ+866FzY1tSGKq7cWC53z YevozpsbG14iVhdcpGVQNdnpV2jK/K44kWMzvtwV3OLJJLnQQHNqLJPyfo/CSdlKLMUZiYZa zEXFiQBQeTR9ZAIAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FDMrxvSzBpu8OWxisXn1dfZHBg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV0bt1HlPBaqGKWS8zGxgv8HUxcnJICJhIHNiynA3CFpO4cG89 mC0kMI1Jon+LJojNKyAo8WPyPZYuRg4OZgF5iSOXskHCzALSEo/+zmCHCKtLTJmS28XIBdTZ yiSxc/FNRpAaYQFJie47d5hBbBYBVYnJ616yg9hsAloSb2+3s4LYIgLaEnd/LGKDmKkhMWnN ERaIXneJG7dPskGcYCfx49ByqNNsJG5MfQY2k1PAVuLy+SdgM0UFjCWajsxhnsAoNAvJ1bMQ rp6F5OpZCFcvYGRZxShQlJqTWGmml1hQkJOql5yfu4kRHLaFUTsYG5ZbHWIU4GBU4uHdYc4S LsSaWFZcmXuIUYKDWUmEV6mONVyINyWxsiq1KD++qDQntfgQozQHi5I4b8YjoGqB9MSS1OzU 1ILUIpgsEwenVANj1/xVmxY89Nc7tOPcgfClL1ZHsP+Yn6Ep8ejcqiP8BndjJ3GX6/tbhZhV zHss3qNglvZS77EVhzlb11SOxOs/2W0uGfCypH0VbuvMF6+5yjtpvoP0GU3Hlvh22T8Vx3N3 zln0vGuDiXH9HEf9n1Er8uxa7thP5z5sKOzlfXTTKT6LN5JSUb+VWIozEg21mIuKEwGrzN42 VwIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: MultiPath WG Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 21:44:59 -0000 Hello, On 06/04/16 - 20:47:59, Costin Raiciu wrote: > I first have to admit that I missed the MPTCP version number bump. > > While I see it has a few benefits, from what I heard in Christoph’s talk I am not convinced the change is worth those benefits. I’ll take them in turn: > - the SYN cookie reliability bug - a nice feature, but not enough to change version number - after all, TCP works fine without it! TCP does not have this issue, as it already echoes the information necessary for the server to create the TCP-state in subsequent segments that do contain data. MPTCP doesn't do this yet, as the keys are not sent in the data-segments. I can see that it might be considered a minor issue (after all, we only fall back to regular TCP if there is one unfortunate packet-loss). However, when the packet-loss rate is high, this is the scenario where we really want MPTCP to work, as that's where it provides the benefits. That's why I would like to make MPTCP as reliable as possible in scenarios where there is a high packet-loss. > - the load balancer support - we have a solution that requires no protocol changes whatsoever and works fine at datacenter scale. Will present it in the next meeting. > - the TLS key integration - I honestly see no benefit - if you have e2e encryption, the actual routing of paths doesn’t matter that much honestly. The attacker could DDos, at most. I think one more benefit is that splitting the token from the key allows to easily ensure that the token is unique. At the moment, a server has to generate a key randomly, hash it to get the token and then check the hash-table for a colliding token and repeat again if there is a collision. > Now about drawbacks: we have a feeble deployment so far. If we bump the version number, we’ll basically have two protocols running in parallel, since it’s unlikely all (any) implementations will support both. So we might kill MPTCP before its even born. But maybe I’m just being pessimistic. I don't think so, but it is difficult to foresee this. One thing to consider is that if we don't bump the version-number, how do we "negotiate" support for the new ADD_ADDR option and other changes that are already in the bis-version (e.g., RST-option and the experimental one). Cheers, Christoph From nobody Wed Apr 6 15:28:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C90E12D635 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:28:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aNj6NXAJoqbZ for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpb1.bt.com (smtpb1.bt.com [62.7.242.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCC4412D65E for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EVMHT03-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.108.56) by EVMED04-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:28:44 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03c.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.26) by EVMHT03-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.108.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.342.0; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:28:46 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03c.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:28:46 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:28:46 +0100 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons Thread-Index: AQHRkCyDKpVI1y5oFUuevpip4t2uQp99gpcA Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:28:45 +0000 Message-ID: <9d492dec6a6b45f6aa05eb03a29c1bd6@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> In-Reply-To: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.202.242] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 22:28:54 -0000 Q29zdGluLA0KSGFwcHkgZm9yIHRoaXMgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB0byBjb250aW51ZSwgYXMgaXQgaXMg aW1wb3J0YW50Lg0KDQpUbyBhbnN3ZXIgeW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbiBhYm91dCB3aGVuIHdlIGRpc2N1 c3NlZCAvIGNvbnNlbnN1cy1jYWxsZWQgdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUgcGFzdDoNCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9tYWls YXJjaGl2ZS5pZXRmLm9yZy9hcmNoL21zZy9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3Avd0NOOFNCb3NER25YN2FiSGtw MTFIZ2w0aW5BIC0gZHVyaW5nIHRoZSBpbnRlcmltICYgY29uc2VudXMgY2FsbCBhZnRlcndhcmRz IA0KYWxzbyByZW1pbmRlZCAvaGlnaGxpZ2h0ZWQgZHVyaW5nIHRoZSBZb2tvaGFtYSBtZWV0aW5n LiBXZSBwcm9iYWJseSBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSBkb25lIChhbm90aGVyKSBjb25zZW5zdXMgY2FsbCBh ZnRlciB0aGUgWW9rb2hhbWEgbWVldGluZywgYnV0IGZhaWxlZCB0byAtIHNvcnJ5Lg0KDQpwaGls DQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IG11bHRpcGF0aHRjcCBbbWFp bHRvOm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgQ29zdGluIFJh aWNpdQ0KU2VudDogMDYgQXByaWwgMjAxNiAxNDo0OA0KVG86IE11bHRpUGF0aCBXRyA8bXVsdGlw YXRodGNwQGlldGYub3JnPg0KU3ViamVjdDogW211bHRpcGF0aHRjcF0gQnVtcGluZyB0aGUgTVBU Q1AgdmVyc2lvbiBudW1iZXI6IHNvbWUgY29ucw0KDQpIaSBhbGwsDQoNCkkgZmlyc3QgaGF2ZSB0 byBhZG1pdCB0aGF0IEkgbWlzc2VkIHRoZSBNUFRDUCB2ZXJzaW9uIG51bWJlciBidW1wLg0KDQpX aGlsZSBJIHNlZSBpdCBoYXMgYSBmZXcgYmVuZWZpdHMsIGZyb20gd2hhdCBJIGhlYXJkIGluIENo cmlzdG9waOKAmXMgdGFsayBJIGFtIG5vdCBjb252aW5jZWQgdGhlIGNoYW5nZSBpcyB3b3J0aCB0 aG9zZSBiZW5lZml0cy4gSeKAmWxsIHRha2UgdGhlbSBpbiB0dXJuOg0KLSB0aGUgU1lOIGNvb2tp ZSByZWxpYWJpbGl0eSBidWcgLSBhIG5pY2UgZmVhdHVyZSwgYnV0IG5vdCBlbm91Z2ggdG8gY2hh bmdlIHZlcnNpb24gbnVtYmVyIC0gYWZ0ZXIgYWxsLCBUQ1Agd29ya3MgZmluZSB3aXRob3V0IGl0 IQ0KLSB0aGUgbG9hZCBiYWxhbmNlciBzdXBwb3J0IC0gd2UgaGF2ZSBhIHNvbHV0aW9uIHRoYXQg cmVxdWlyZXMgbm8gcHJvdG9jb2wgY2hhbmdlcyB3aGF0c29ldmVyIGFuZCB3b3JrcyBmaW5lIGF0 IGRhdGFjZW50ZXIgc2NhbGUuIFdpbGwgcHJlc2VudCBpdCBpbiB0aGUgbmV4dCBtZWV0aW5nLg0K LSB0aGUgVExTIGtleSBpbnRlZ3JhdGlvbiAtIEkgaG9uZXN0bHkgc2VlIG5vIGJlbmVmaXQgLSBp ZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBlMmUgZW5jcnlwdGlvbiwgdGhlIGFjdHVhbCByb3V0aW5nIG9mIHBhdGhzIGRv ZXNu4oCZdCBtYXR0ZXIgdGhhdCBtdWNoIGhvbmVzdGx5LiBUaGUgYXR0YWNrZXIgY291bGQgRERv cywgYXQgbW9zdC4NCg0KTm93IGFib3V0IGRyYXdiYWNrczogd2UgaGF2ZSBhIGZlZWJsZSAgZGVw bG95bWVudCBzbyBmYXIuIElmIHdlIGJ1bXAgdGhlIHZlcnNpb24gbnVtYmVyLCB3ZeKAmWxsIGJh c2ljYWxseSBoYXZlIHR3byBwcm90b2NvbHMgcnVubmluZyBpbiBwYXJhbGxlbCwgc2luY2UgaXTi gJlzIHVubGlrZWx5IGFsbCAoYW55KSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgd2lsbCBzdXBwb3J0IGJvdGgu IFNvIHdlIG1pZ2h0IGtpbGwgTVBUQ1AgYmVmb3JlIGl0cyBldmVuIGJvcm4uIEJ1dCBtYXliZSBJ 4oCZbSBqdXN0IGJlaW5nIHBlc3NpbWlzdGljLg0KDQpJIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhlcmUgd2FzIFdH IGNvbnNlbnN1cyBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIGxhc3QgbWVldGluZyAtIEkgbWlzc2VkIHRoYXQuIFdhcyB0 aGVyZSBhIGNhbGwgb24gdGhlIFdHIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdD8gSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIHN1YmplY3Qg aXMgaW1wb3J0YW50IGVub3VnaCB0aGF0IGl0IGdldHMgbW9yZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLg0KDQpUaGFu a3MuDQpDb3N0aW4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3ANCg== From nobody Wed Apr 6 16:17:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9B812D722 for ; 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Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:17:37 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:17:36 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:17:36 +0100 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons Thread-Index: AQHRkCyDKpVI1y5oFUuevpip4t2uQp99ko2g Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:17:36 +0000 Message-ID: <31d3c28e099944feb731bd35ba88b8e3@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> In-Reply-To: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.187.101.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:17:41 -0000 SSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoZSBtb3RpdmF0aW9uIGZvciBidW1waW5nIHRoZSB2ZXJzaW9uIG51bWJl ciBpcyB0byBtYWtlIHRoZSBNUC1DQVBBQkxFIHNpZ25hbGxpbmcgcmVsaWFibGUgLSBhbmQgdGhl IGFyZ3VtZW50IGlzIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBjYW4ndCBiZSBkb25lIHdoaWxzdCBiZWluZyBiYWNrd2Fy ZHMgY29tcGF0aWJsZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBNUC1DQVBBQkxFIHNpZ25hbGxpbmcgaW4gdGhlIGV4aXN0 aW5nIFJGQy4NCg0KcGhpbA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogbXVs dGlwYXRodGNwIFttYWlsdG86bXVsdGlwYXRodGNwLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFs ZiBPZiBDb3N0aW4gUmFpY2l1DQpTZW50OiAwNiBBcHJpbCAyMDE2IDE0OjQ4DQpUbzogTXVsdGlQ YXRoIFdHIDxtdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3BAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbbXVsdGlwYXRodGNwXSBC dW1waW5nIHRoZSBNUFRDUCB2ZXJzaW9uIG51bWJlcjogc29tZSBjb25zDQoNCkhpIGFsbCwNCg0K SSBmaXJzdCBoYXZlIHRvIGFkbWl0IHRoYXQgSSBtaXNzZWQgdGhlIE1QVENQIHZlcnNpb24gbnVt YmVyIGJ1bXAuDQoNCldoaWxlIEkgc2VlIGl0IGhhcyBhIGZldyBiZW5lZml0cywgZnJvbSB3aGF0 IEkgaGVhcmQgaW4gQ2hyaXN0b3Bo4oCZcyB0YWxrIEkgYW0gbm90IGNvbnZpbmNlZCB0aGUgY2hh bmdlIGlzIHdvcnRoIHRob3NlIGJlbmVmaXRzLiBJ4oCZbGwgdGFrZSB0aGVtIGluIHR1cm46DQot IHRoZSBTWU4gY29va2llIHJlbGlhYmlsaXR5IGJ1ZyAtIGEgbmljZSBmZWF0dXJlLCBidXQgbm90 IGVub3VnaCB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdmVyc2lvbiBudW1iZXIgLSBhZnRlciBhbGwsIFRDUCB3b3JrcyBm aW5lIHdpdGhvdXQgaXQhDQotIHRoZSBsb2FkIGJhbGFuY2VyIHN1cHBvcnQgLSB3ZSBoYXZlIGEg c29sdXRpb24gdGhhdCByZXF1aXJlcyBubyBwcm90b2NvbCBjaGFuZ2VzIHdoYXRzb2V2ZXIgYW5k IHdvcmtzIGZpbmUgYXQgZGF0YWNlbnRlciBzY2FsZS4gV2lsbCBwcmVzZW50IGl0IGluIHRoZSBu ZXh0IG1lZXRpbmcuDQotIHRoZSBUTFMga2V5IGludGVncmF0aW9uIC0gSSBob25lc3RseSBzZWUg bm8gYmVuZWZpdCAtIGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGUyZSBlbmNyeXB0aW9uLCB0aGUgYWN0dWFsIHJvdXRp bmcgb2YgcGF0aHMgZG9lc27igJl0IG1hdHRlciB0aGF0IG11Y2ggaG9uZXN0bHkuIFRoZSBhdHRh Y2tlciBjb3VsZCBERG9zLCBhdCBtb3N0Lg0KDQpOb3cgYWJvdXQgZHJhd2JhY2tzOiB3ZSBoYXZl IGEgZmVlYmxlICBkZXBsb3ltZW50IHNvIGZhci4gSWYgd2UgYnVtcCB0aGUgdmVyc2lvbiBudW1i ZXIsIHdl4oCZbGwgYmFzaWNhbGx5IGhhdmUgdHdvIHByb3RvY29scyBydW5uaW5nIGluIHBhcmFs bGVsLCBzaW5jZSBpdOKAmXMgdW5saWtlbHkgYWxsIChhbnkpIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucyB3aWxs IHN1cHBvcnQgYm90aC4gU28gd2UgbWlnaHQga2lsbCBNUFRDUCBiZWZvcmUgaXRzIGV2ZW4gYm9y bi4gQnV0IG1heWJlIEnigJltIGp1c3QgYmVpbmcgcGVzc2ltaXN0aWMuDQoNCkkgdW5kZXJzdGFu ZCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgV0cgY29uc2Vuc3VzIGR1cmluZyB0aGUgbGFzdCBtZWV0aW5nIC0gSSBtaXNz ZWQgdGhhdC4gV2FzIHRoZXJlIGEgY2FsbCBvbiB0aGUgV0cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PyBJIHRoaW5r IHRoaXMgc3ViamVjdCBpcyBpbXBvcnRhbnQgZW5vdWdoIHRoYXQgaXQgZ2V0cyBtb3JlIGRpc2N1 c3Npb24uDQoNClRoYW5rcy4NCkNvc3Rpbg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KbXVsdGlwYXRodGNwIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KbXVsdGlwYXRo dGNwQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL211bHRp cGF0aHRjcA0K From nobody Wed Apr 6 20:48:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C18E12D59E for ; 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Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJsj3dfPIhZVWTjlr7cRiyZsRjUPF2RkTMMcFO468zPQypyQqYnXYgYb/W5rD2WbRGKZ1vTBkCc7QQr6A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.37.0.3 with SMTP id 3mr394103yba.78.1460000884130; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.196.3 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:48:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160406214450.GA1732@dhcp-a286.meeting.ietf.org> References: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> <20160406214450.GA1732@dhcp-a286.meeting.ietf.org> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:48:04 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Yoshifumi Nishida To: Christoph Paasch Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cfaf21229da052fdcf2fc Archived-At: Cc: MultiPath WG , Costin Raiciu Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 03:48:12 -0000 --001a113cfaf21229da052fdcf2fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Just in case, I might want to clarify some points. I think the new handshake mechanism in 6824bis can have the two benefits for stateful nodes= . You won't fallback to normal TCP when the 3rd ack is lost. Also, you can save lots of option space in the first SYN packet which might increase the chance to combine other features with mptcp. >From my personal point of view, supporting stateless server looks additional advantage. I believe load balancer and TLS key negotiation are not included in 6824bis yet. I think we will need more discussions if it is integrated. Please let me know if I miss some points. (Sorry, I couldn't find time to check audio archive yet..) Regards, -- Yoshi On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Christoph Paasch wrote: > Hello, > > On 06/04/16 - 20:47:59, Costin Raiciu wrote: > > I first have to admit that I missed the MPTCP version number bump. > > > > While I see it has a few benefits, from what I heard in Christoph=E2=80= =99s talk > I am not convinced the change is worth those benefits. I=E2=80=99ll take = them in > turn: > > - the SYN cookie reliability bug - a nice feature, but not enough to > change version number - after all, TCP works fine without it! > > TCP does not have this issue, as it already echoes the information > necessary > for the server to create the TCP-state in subsequent segments that do > contain data. > > MPTCP doesn't do this yet, as the keys are not sent in the data-segments. > > I can see that it might be considered a minor issue (after all, we only > fall > back to regular TCP if there is one unfortunate packet-loss). However, wh= en > the packet-loss rate is high, this is the scenario where we really want > MPTCP to work, as that's where it provides the benefits. That's why I wou= ld > like to make MPTCP as reliable as possible in scenarios where there is a > high packet-loss. > > > > - the load balancer support - we have a solution that requires no > protocol changes whatsoever and works fine at datacenter scale. Will > present it in the next meeting. > > - the TLS key integration - I honestly see no benefit - if you have e2e > encryption, the actual routing of paths doesn=E2=80=99t matter that much = honestly. > The attacker could DDos, at most. > > I think one more benefit is that splitting the token from the key allows = to > easily ensure that the token is unique. > At the moment, a server has to generate a key randomly, hash it to get th= e > token and then check the hash-table for a colliding token and repeat agai= n > if there is a collision. > > > > Now about drawbacks: we have a feeble deployment so far. If we bump th= e > version number, we=E2=80=99ll basically have two protocols running in par= allel, > since it=E2=80=99s unlikely all (any) implementations will support both. = So we > might kill MPTCP before its even born. But maybe I=E2=80=99m just being p= essimistic. > > I don't think so, but it is difficult to foresee this. > > > > One thing to consider is that if we don't bump the version-number, how do > we > "negotiate" support for the new ADD_ADDR option and other changes that ar= e > already in the bis-version (e.g., RST-option and the experimental one). > > > Cheers, > Christoph > > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp > --001a113cfaf21229da052fdcf2fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Just in case, I might want = to clarify some points. I think the new handshake mechanism in 6824bis can = have the two benefits for stateful nodes.
You won't fallback = to normal TCP when the 3rd ack is lost. Also, you can save lots of option s= pace in the first SYN packet which might increase the chance to combine oth= er features with mptcp.
From my personal point of view, supportin= g stateless server looks additional advantage.

I believe load balancer and TLS key negotiation are not included in 6824b= is yet.=C2=A0
I think we will need more discussions if it is inte= grated.=C2=A0
Please let me know if I miss some points. (So= rry, I couldn't find time to check audio archive yet..)

<= /div>
Regards,
--
Yoshi

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Wed, Apr 6, 201= 6 at 2:44 PM, Christoph Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
Hello,

On 06/04/16 - 20:47:59, Costin Raiciu wrote:
> I first have to admit that I missed the MPTCP version number bump.
>
> While I see it has a few benefits, from what I heard in Christoph=E2= =80=99s talk I am not convinced the change is worth those benefits. I=E2=80= =99ll take them in turn:
> - the SYN cookie reliability bug - a nice feature, but not enough to c= hange version number - after all, TCP works fine without it!

TCP does not have this issue, as it already echoes the information n= ecessary
for the server to create the TCP-state in subsequent segments that do
contain data.

MPTCP doesn't do this yet, as the keys are not sent in the data-segment= s.

I can see that it might be considered a minor issue (after all, we only fal= l
back to regular TCP if there is one unfortunate packet-loss). However, when=
the packet-loss rate is high, this is the scenario where we really want
MPTCP to work, as that's where it provides the benefits. That's why= I would
like to make MPTCP as reliable as possible in scenarios where there is a high packet-loss.


> - the load balancer support - we have a solution that requires no prot= ocol changes whatsoever and works fine at datacenter scale. Will present it= in the next meeting.
> - the TLS key integration - I honestly see no benefit - if you have e2= e encryption, the actual routing of paths doesn=E2=80=99t matter that much = honestly. The attacker could DDos, at most.

I think one more benefit is that splitting the token from the key al= lows to
easily ensure that the token is unique.
At the moment, a server has to generate a key randomly, hash it to get the<= br> token and then check the hash-table for a colliding token and repeat again<= br> if there is a collision.


> Now about drawbacks: we have a feeble=C2=A0 deployment so far. If we b= ump the version number, we=E2=80=99ll basically have two protocols running = in parallel, since it=E2=80=99s unlikely all (any) implementations will sup= port both. So we might kill MPTCP before its even born. But maybe I=E2=80= =99m just being pessimistic.

I don't think so, but it is difficult to foresee this.



One thing to consider is that if we don't bump the version-number, how = do we
"negotiate" support for the new ADD_ADDR option and other changes= that are
already in the bis-version (e.g., RST-option and the experimental one).


Cheers,
Christoph

_______________________________________________
multipathtcp mailing list
multipathtcp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp=

--001a113cfaf21229da052fdcf2fc-- From nobody Thu Apr 7 10:34:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D47F12D56E for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id phFGT_DakFVZ for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in7.apple.com (mail-out7.apple.com [17.151.62.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3925012D56A for ; 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Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:34:43 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11973e16-f79bc6d0000063d0-b7-57069a334475 Received: from orrisroot.apple.com (orrisroot.apple.com [17.128.115.106]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 6F.80.28643.33A96075; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:34:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-disposition: inline Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from localhost ([17.153.84.181]) by orrisroot.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O59009UPY5T4Y00@orrisroot.apple.com> for multipathtcp@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Sender: cpaasch@apple.com Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:34:42 -0300 From: Christoph Paasch To: Yoshifumi Nishida Message-id: <20160407173442.GJ1732@dhcp-a286.meeting.ietf.org> References: <8ED39350-21EE-43B6-9D30-8786A7709702@cs.pub.ro> <20160406214450.GA1732@dhcp-a286.meeting.ietf.org> In-reply-to: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (08e81162482f) (2015-08-30) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FAYpWs8iy3c4GOntcXn1dfZHBg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVsfTqPbaCfbIVe4/9Zm1g/C/WxcjJISFgIvF+xWsmCFtM4sK9 9WxdjFwcQgJ7GSV2tS1ihimav+AVM0RiPpPE1p7TrCAJXgFBiR+T77F0MXJwMAvISxy5lA0S ZhaQlnj0dwY7RFhdYsqUXJCwkEA/k8SVbYUgtrCApET3nTtg41kEVCVuHj4DNpFNQEvi7e12 MFtEQE/iw/ePTBAjgyX2LfzADtHrLnHj9kk2iAvsJHa9ngF12g5GifNzl4AlOIEanh5tAWsQ FTCWaDoyB6xIQmALm8Svw33sExhFZyF5YRbCC7OQvDAL4YUFjCyrGIVyEzNzdDPzzPUSCwpy UvWS83M3MYJiYbqd2A7Gh6usDjEKcDAq8fBadLKGC7EmlhVX5h5ilOZgURLnvTMNKCSQnliS mp2aWpBaFF9UmpNafIiRiYNTqoFxt8ex6aGv78sZmItvyzCfz+wu7zB3fdxfr00MzkyveR7u 37ut+r/7tjXvvMPV7zTXL3cPVeHd0XTSfMkWpu7zwg/Nk2OsmS3eLP3/MmMTz6U3re9K93bN fLAiz8CEPU1ofkVw8vsp4tzsel4ykWknW+bwL9ZZU2q6af0Flw8N4vwFUSzHRZyVWIozEg21 mIuKEwE4/llOZgIAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRbCjO0jWexRZu8OqzkcXn1dfZHBg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVsfTqPbaCfbIVe4/9Zm1g/C/WxcjJISFgIjF/wStmCFtM4sK9 9WxdjFwcQgLzmSS29pxmBUnwCghK/Jh8j6WLkYODWUBe4silbJAws4C0xKO/M9ghwuoSU6bk goSFBPqZJK5sKwSxhQUkJbrv3AEbzyKgKnHz8BmwiWwCWhJvb7eD2SICehIfvn9kghgZLLFv 4Qd2iF53iRu3T7JBXGAnsev1DGaI03YwSpyfuwQswQnU8PRoC1iDqICxRNOROcwTGIVmIbl6 FsLVs5BcPQvh6gWMLKsYBYpScxIrzfQSCwpyUvWS83M3MYJDtzBqB2PDcqtDjAIcjEo8vBad rOFCrIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHhlp7CFC/GmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2JMBvp3IrOUaHI+MK7ySuIN TUwMTIyNzYyNzU3MSRNWEufNeMQSLiSQnliSmp2aWpBaBLOFiYNTqoGxi0tWuvJdThLXhFV/ ly5yu96hwz49uNpFWeXrzmfT9TcGbew+373jm9ZUS36LO4oqzCaCWwIcs3U6TazD31qK22w4 FOudG7JyvfIRG43QMNV9XRF/Z7JvuMNwRejNtK0x///86lTd5PkjWUZwNr/6m8uKxzn3XXNc PEXf/HL4UX/dHT+YT7EosRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAntCle6ECAAA= Archived-At: Cc: MultiPath WG , Costin Raiciu Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Bumping the MPTCP version number: some cons X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:34:46 -0000 On 06/04/16 - 20:48:04, Yoshifumi Nishida wrote: > Just in case, I might want to clarify some points. I think the new > handshake mechanism in 6824bis can have the two benefits for stateful nodes. > You won't fallback to normal TCP when the 3rd ack is lost. Also, you can > save lots of option space in the first SYN packet which might increase the > chance to combine other features with mptcp. Yes, independent from what we do with the TLS/load-balancer issue I think that the gain in option-space is a nice addition. Christoph > From my personal point of view, supporting stateless server looks > additional advantage. > > I believe load balancer and TLS key negotiation are not included in 6824bis > yet. > I think we will need more discussions if it is integrated. > Please let me know if I miss some points. (Sorry, I couldn't find time to > check audio archive yet..) > > Regards, > -- > Yoshi > > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Christoph Paasch wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > On 06/04/16 - 20:47:59, Costin Raiciu wrote: > > > I first have to admit that I missed the MPTCP version number bump. > > > > > > While I see it has a few benefits, from what I heard in Christoph’s talk > > I am not convinced the change is worth those benefits. I’ll take them in > > turn: > > > - the SYN cookie reliability bug - a nice feature, but not enough to > > change version number - after all, TCP works fine without it! > > > > TCP does not have this issue, as it already echoes the information > > necessary > > for the server to create the TCP-state in subsequent segments that do > > contain data. > > > > MPTCP doesn't do this yet, as the keys are not sent in the data-segments. > > > > I can see that it might be considered a minor issue (after all, we only > > fall > > back to regular TCP if there is one unfortunate packet-loss). However, when > > the packet-loss rate is high, this is the scenario where we really want > > MPTCP to work, as that's where it provides the benefits. That's why I would > > like to make MPTCP as reliable as possible in scenarios where there is a > > high packet-loss. > > > > > > > - the load balancer support - we have a solution that requires no > > protocol changes whatsoever and works fine at datacenter scale. Will > > present it in the next meeting. > > > - the TLS key integration - I honestly see no benefit - if you have e2e > > encryption, the actual routing of paths doesn’t matter that much honestly. > > The attacker could DDos, at most. > > > > I think one more benefit is that splitting the token from the key allows to > > easily ensure that the token is unique. > > At the moment, a server has to generate a key randomly, hash it to get the > > token and then check the hash-table for a colliding token and repeat again > > if there is a collision. > > > > > > > Now about drawbacks: we have a feeble deployment so far. If we bump the > > version number, we’ll basically have two protocols running in parallel, > > since it’s unlikely all (any) implementations will support both. So we > > might kill MPTCP before its even born. But maybe I’m just being pessimistic. > > > > I don't think so, but it is difficult to foresee this. > > > > > > > > One thing to consider is that if we don't bump the version-number, how do > > we > > "negotiate" support for the new ADD_ADDR option and other changes that are > > already in the bis-version (e.g., RST-option and the experimental one). > > > > > > Cheers, > > Christoph > > > > _______________________________________________ > > multipathtcp mailing list > > multipathtcp@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp > > From nobody Tue Apr 12 08:37:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2EC12EFF4 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UD0HhUNqBRKP for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ndjsvnpf103.ndc.nasa.gov (NDJSVNPF103.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05DA12EFFC for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ndjsppt105.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjsppt105.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.199]) by ndjsvnpf103.ndc.nasa.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6D4400EE2A; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:37:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from NDJSCHT115.ndc.nasa.gov (ndjscht115-pub.ndc.nasa.gov [198.117.1.215]) by ndjsppt105.ndc.nasa.gov (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with ESMTP id u3CFbmq9028700; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:37:48 -0500 Received: from NDJSMBX203.ndc.nasa.gov ([169.254.2.20]) by NDJSCHT115.ndc.nasa.gov ([198.117.1.215]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:37:47 -0500 From: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-LCA0)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "christian.jacquenet@orange.com" Thread-Topic: draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-06 Thread-Index: AQHRlNFDxf3fhSmS+EK/6L7CEYQckw== Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 15:37:46 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-originating-ip: [139.88.111.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-04-12_07:, , signatures=0 Archived-At: Cc: MultiPath WG Subject: [multipathtcp] draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-06 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 15:37:53 -0000 Mohamed and/or Christian, Can you provide some clarification regarding the plain-mode draft? I am interested in something like Multipath UDP and this draft appears to handle that architecture. My question is, =B3Are the MP-TCP subflows recombined such that the UDP datagram order is maintained coming out of the concentrator proxy?" Also, will MP-TCP in plain-mode make adjustments if a link goes down or a new link becomes available? The CPE and the Concentrator establish a set of MPTCP subflows. These subflows are used to transport UDP datagrams that are distributed among existent subflows. ------- "TCP session tracking may not be enabled for the set of subflows that are dedicated to transport UDP traffic.=B2 ------ The establishment of these subflows is not conditioned by the receipt of UDP packets; instead, these subflows are initiated upon CPE reboot or when network conditions change (e.g., whenever a new Concentrator is discovered or a new IP address is assigned to the Concentrator). Additional MPTCP connections may be established to anticipate UDP traffic to be distributed among several paths. The maximum number of MPTCP connections that can be dedicated to UDP traffic may be configured locally to the CPE and the Concentrator. How this parameter is configured is implementation and deployment- specific. From nobody Thu Apr 14 00:24:50 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CB912D64A for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rYmvvWTnI_na for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C69A712B00E for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f182.google.com (mail-yw0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F5BC278405 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:24:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-yw0-f182.google.com with SMTP id t10so95541694ywa.0 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVS9TVOe+KricpuqgIGMlSNR1IxoY8zOj4575/um/th/jjBVLUl9bqXjlK1rmOvLfYXPANrDpb/ZBCiZg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.111.132 with SMTP id k126mr7360467ywc.287.1460618679674; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.196.3 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:24:39 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Yoshifumi Nishida To: multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114926068df50d05306cc955 Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] draft minute for Buenos Aires meeting X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:24:50 -0000 --001a114926068df50d05306cc955 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, I just put a draft version of the minute for Buenos Aires meeting on the following URL. Please let us know if you have questions, comments or corrections. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/minutes/minutes-95-mptcp We thank for people who participated very lively discussions. Also, we really appreciate Oliver and Will for detailed note taking. Thanks, -- Yoshi & Phil --001a114926068df50d05306cc955 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I just put a draft version of the m= inute for Buenos Aires meeting on the following URL. Please let us know if = you have questions, comments or corrections.


We thank for people who participated very lively dis= cussions.
Also, we really appreciate Oliver and Will for detailed= note taking.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi= & Phil=C2=A0
--001a114926068df50d05306cc955-- From nobody Thu Apr 28 04:05:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6137412D673 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 04:05:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.616 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.616 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wU_bBq_wzAnd for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 04:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpb1.bt.com (smtpb1.bt.com [62.7.242.135]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3F6212D671 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 04:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EPDAG01D-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.205) by EVMED01-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:05:17 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by EPDAG01D-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.205) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:05:17 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:05:16 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:05:16 +0100 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] draft minute for Buenos Aires meeting Thread-Index: AQHRlh6/UpKl70El4061bwxev/huG5+fSl6Q Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:05:16 +0000 Message-ID: <2fae2d4f5b3a4282b4c057bb4eb831a3@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.202.232] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2fae2d4f5b3a4282b4c057bb4eb831a3rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] draft minute for Buenos Aires meeting X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:05:28 -0000 --_000_2fae2d4f5b3a4282b4c057bb4eb831a3rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sz3JzsKc6kFX for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA81712B008 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f181.google.com (mail-yw0-f181.google.com [209.85.161.181]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0EE6D2786E9 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:12:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-yw0-f181.google.com with SMTP id o66so167235997ywc.3 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:12:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FXRzOg0MhYjA5zHxUaVkRVOuU4LIujCUj4/GO5whtyNyj46oU66NGhY2dtlGPfykkyDl7hLwCYu0zq+Mg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.81.80 with SMTP id f77mr11799615ywb.266.1461910376837; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.196.3 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:12:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2fae2d4f5b3a4282b4c057bb4eb831a3@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <2fae2d4f5b3a4282b4c057bb4eb831a3@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:12:56 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Yoshifumi Nishida To: "philip.eardley" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114570beb4803705319988d3 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] draft minute for Buenos Aires meeting X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:13:02 -0000 --001a114570beb4803705319988d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thank Phil, Updated. -- Yoshi On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:05 AM, wrote: > In the minutes, I think: > > > > < > Why do you leave key exchange to the higher layer? > > >> > > ??? = Denis Ovsiyenko > > > > < > A major change should be at least tested experimentally > first. > > Has the new handshake been studied in any test? > > >> > > ??? = Joseph Ishac > > > > phil > > *From:* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Yoshifumi Nishida > *Sent:* 14 April 2016 08:25 > *To:* multipathtcp > *Subject:* [multipathtcp] draft minute for Buenos Aires meeting > > > > Hi, > > > > I just put a draft version of the minute for Buenos Aires meeting on the > following URL. Please let us know if you have questions, comments or > corrections. > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/minutes/minutes-95-mptcp > > > > We thank for people who participated very lively discussions. > > Also, we really appreciate Oliver and Will for detailed note taking. > > > > Thanks, > > -- > > Yoshi & Phil > --001a114570beb4803705319988d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank Phil,

Updated.
--
=
Yoshi

On = Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:05 AM, <philip.eardley@bt.com> w= rote:

In the minutes, I think:

=C2=A0

<<???:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Why do you leave key exchange to the higher layer?

>>=C2=A0

??? =3D Denis Ovsiyenko=

=C2=A0

<<??? (jabber):

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A major change= should be at least tested experimentally first.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Has the new ha= ndshake been studied in any test?

>>=C2=A0

??? =3D Joseph Ishac

=C2=A0

phil

From: = multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yoshifumi Nishida
Sent: 14 April 2016 08:25
To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Subject: [multipathtcp] draft minute for Buenos Aires meeting=

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

I just put a draft version of the minute for Buenos = Aires meeting on the following URL. Please let us know if you have question= s, comments or corrections.

=C2=A0

We thank for people who participated very lively dis= cussions.

Also, we really appreciate Oliver and Will for detai= led note taking.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

--

Yoshi & Phil=C2=A0


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