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from EPDAG01D-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.205) by EVMED06-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:36:00 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) by EPDAG01D-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.205) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:36:04 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:36:03 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:36:03 +0100 From: To: , , Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSDnVeLFmf7BtYTEuNTABv8gHXGaB5GBOAgAAIHACAABREAIAdxE5A Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:36:03 +0000 Message-ID: <2c171f734083442db9cc60695de9767d@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <147385003530.1966.83385935910172454.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6847d79e-d40d-3e8f-1800-5a2beeb3a53f@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.202.243] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 15:36:10 -0000 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ESMTP id 5B165BE50; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:42:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pRVgzzpJp7mn; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:42:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (bilbo.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5FB6BE2C; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:42:55 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1475509376; bh=ifmnE0Y/dxfdZZwO5jb6XozgmFGVyejFez0a03mwLxA=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ox3GwMpmTMuB2CIpRgkFntK1eQgoUH4kk4WCy7dl+uDRJ1dWFucld2XnCX8jhnFN6 4YqpITxYXP4grTX+MOvNRLK9gyTYBSHz3ufj7QD/CHOi35QkVjz0woEGyLGagjU1ms KY7sbhP5V7JqFw3seNxX07NLTleJHZ0XCxNkbGs8= To: philip.eardley@bt.com, Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be, iesg@ietf.org References: <147385003530.1966.83385935910172454.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6847d79e-d40d-3e8f-1800-5a2beeb3a53f@cs.tcd.ie> <2c171f734083442db9cc60695de9767d@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:42:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2c171f734083442db9cc60695de9767d@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms090008040600090703090504" Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 15:43:10 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090008040600090703090504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, Sorry, didn't think you were waiting on me. My comment was non-blocking so going ahead as you consider best is the right thing to do, Cheers, S. On 03/10/16 16:36, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote: > I didn=E2=80=99t see any more emails in this thread. Stephen, are you h= appy > with the proposed text? >=20 > The proposed text works for me and I think is an interesting point to > add - but I'm not sure it directly answers your point (I guess the > answer is something like 'No information about MPTCP-tailored > attacks' or 'no information that can be shared') >=20 > Olivier & authors - is it possible to do a new version of the > document please - I think the Discuss and the other comments are > quite easy to resolve, and it would be good to publish the document > (finally!) >=20 > Thanks! phil >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- From: Olivier Bonaventure > [mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be] Sent: 14 September 2016 > 18:55 To: Stephen Farrell ; The IESG > Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org; mptcp-chairs@ietf.org; > Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R Subject: Re: Stephen > Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with > COMMENT) >=20 > Hello, >=20 >>>=20 >>> Another point is the impact of MPTCP on existing IDS, firewalls >>> and other types middleboxes that could only see a portion of the >>> traffic. There have been blackhat presentations on this, e.g. >>>=20 >>> https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-14/materials/us-14-Pearce-Multipath-= >>> >>>=20 TCP-Breaking-Todays-Networks-With-Tomorrows-Protocols.pdf >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I haven't seen deployment of those attacks, but could extend >>> section 3.5 or discuss this in a bit more details if you think >>> that this would be useful. >>=20 >> If such text would be considered useful in the RFC, then I'd be for >> it. I'm happy that the AD/chairs/editors and WG figure that out. >> I'm equally happy to review if someone proposes text. >=20 > Here is a proposed text >=20 > 5. Security Considerations >=20 > The security considerations for Multipath TCP have already been=20 > documented in [RFC6181], [RFC6182], [RFC6824] and [RFC7430]. >=20 > From a security viewpoint, it is important to note that Multipath=20 > TCP, like other multipath solutions such as SCTP, has the ability to=20 > send packets belonging to a single connection over different paths.=20 > This design feature of Multipath TCP implies that middleboxes that=20 > have been deployed on-path assuming that they would observe all the=20 > packets exchanged for a given connection in both directions may not=20 > function correctly anymore. A typical example are firewalls, IDS or=20 > DPIs deployed in enterprise networks. Those devices expect to=20 > observe all the packets from all TCP connections. With Multipath=20 > TCP, those middleboxes may not observe anymore all packets since > some of them may follow a different path. The two examples below=20 > illustrate typical deployments of such middleboxes. The first=20 > example, Figure 8, shows a Multipath TCP enabled smartphone attached=20 > to both an enterprise and a cellular network. If a Multipath TCP=20 > connection is established by the smartphone towards a server, some > of the packets sent by the smartphone or the server may be > transmitted over the cellular network and thus be invisible for the > enterprise middlebox. >=20 > smartphone +----- entreprise net --- MBox----+------ server | > | +----- cellular net -------------+ >=20 >=20 > Figure 8: Enteprise Middlebox may not observe all packets from=20 > multihomed host >=20 > The second example, Figure 9, shows a possible issue when multiple=20 > middleboxes are deployed inside a network. For simplicity, we > assume that network1 is the default IPv4 path while network2 is the > default IPv6 path. A similar issue could occur with per-flow load > balancing such as ECMP [RFC2992]. With regular TCP, all packets from > each connection would either pass through Mbox1 or Mbox2. With > Multipath TCP, the client can easily establish a subflow over > network1 and another over network2 and each middlebox would only > observe a part of the traffic of the end-to-end Multipath TCP > connection. >=20 > client ----R-- network1 --- MBox1 -----R------------- server | > | +-- network2 --- MBox2 -----+ >=20 >=20 > Figure 9: Interactions between load balancing and security=20 > Middleboxes >=20 > In these two cases, it is possible for an attacker to evade some=20 > security measures operating on the TCP bytestream and implemented on=20 > the middleboxes by controlling the bytes that are actually sent over=20 > each subflow and there are tools that ease those kinds of evasion=20 > [PZ15] [PT14]. This is not a security issue for Multipath TCP > itself since Multipath TCP behaves correctly. However, this > demonstrates the difficulty of enforcing security policies by relying > only on on- path middleboxes instead of enforcing them directly on > the endpoints. >=20 > Olivier >=20 --------------ms090008040600090703090504 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CvIwggUIMIID8KADAgECAhBPzaE7pzYviUJyhmHTFBdnMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMHUxCzAJ BgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSkwJwYDVQQLEyBTdGFydENvbSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTEjMCEGA1UEAxMaU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwHhcNMTYwMjA5MDkyODE1WhcNMTcwMjA5MDkyODE1WjBOMSIwIAYDVQQDDBlzdGVw aGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllMSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxA Y3MudGNkLmllMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAtuC0rYze/2JinSra 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<147385003530.1966.83385935910172454.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6847d79e-d40d-3e8f-1800-5a2beeb3a53f@cs.tcd.ie> <2c171f734083442db9cc60695de9767d@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> To: philip.eardley@bt.com, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie, iesg@ietf.org From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: <94c82554-4675-8fed-c96a-7821bad8a9aa@uclouvain.be> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 17:43:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2c171f734083442db9cc60695de9767d@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 0F44C67DCA6.A8AAF X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 15:43:45 -0000 Phil, > I didn’t see any more emails in this thread. Stephen, are you happy with the proposed text? > > The proposed text works for me and I think is an interesting point to add - but I'm not sure it directly answers your point (I guess the answer is something like 'No information about MPTCP-tailored attacks' or 'no information that can be shared') I haven't seen reports of actual attacks that tageted MPTCP or used MPTCP to perform an attack. The closests discussions that I'm aware of are the two references that I mentioned in the updated text [PT14] Pearce, C. and P. Thomas, "Multipath TCP Breaking Today's Networks with Tomorrow's Protocols", Proc. Blackhat Briefings , 2014, . [PZ15] Pearce, C. and S. Zeadally, "Ancillary Impacts of Multipath TCP on Current and Future Network Security", IEEE Internet Computing, vol. 19, no. 5, pp. 58-65 , 2015. > > Olivier & authors - is it possible to do a new version of the document please - I think the Discuss and the other comments are quite easy to resolve, and it would be good to publish the document (finally!) We have an updated text but I was expecting comments on this security part which is the main change that was requested by the reviewers Olivier From nobody Fri Oct 7 00:08:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9223C129492 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 00:08:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jINu0sdrrzlT for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 00:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor35.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEB5F129508 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 00:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id CA43EC07BE for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 09:08:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BBB681C0069 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 09:08:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from opfednr07.rouen.francetelecom.fr by opfednr07.rouen.francetelecom.fr with queue id 340265-14 for multipathtcp@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2016 07:08:19 GMT Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.24]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 99FA61C005D; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 09:08:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9044:c5ee:4dd2:4f16%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 09:08:19 +0200 From: To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" , "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AdHxWbUCMvV2F7dASMGmgM35ml/5/QvDnYJg Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 07:08:19 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008E3DDE0@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008E3DDE0OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2016 07:08:23 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008E3DDE0OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Phil, Please see inline. Cheers, Med De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de phil= ip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9 : lundi 8 ao=FBt 2016 11:50 =C0 : multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item I had thought a potential charter item could be something on the lines of: [Med] I would like to see the charter includes the following; "The working = group will also edit Network-Assisted Multipath provisioning documents. In = particular, the WG will specify DHCP options and RADIUS attributes for MPTC= P." However, if I get the discussion right, this is not quite right. * assume a controlled environment (to avoid a problem where the message rea= ches the 'wrong' proxy) (IETF usually prefers generally applicable protocol= s) * assume some (?additional) 'header swapping' protocol and a new signalling= protocol (not an mptcp extension - so probably in INTAREA WG's remit) [Med] IMHO, it is not odd to document in the mptcp wg how a Network-Assiste= d MPTCP solution can also be applicable to other protocols (UDP in particul= ar). This work can be done jointly/closely with other WGs. The important po= int is whether there is enough interest from the mptpcp WG members to work = on this. If the above is roughly right, then I think some extra work is needed befor= e we can get a clear charter item. Can some of the work that isn't mptcp ex= tensions be cleanly separated out? Can you be clear what deployment assumpt= ions are being made (and preferably reduce them, so there is wider applicab= ility). Personally I'd also find it very helpful if the plain/transparent '= merged' draft could try and follow the guidance about protocol models in RF= C4101 (personally I found the plain mode doc difficult to understand). Thanks phil --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008E3DDE0OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Phil,

 

Please see inline.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipatht= cp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de philip.eardley@bt.com
Envoy=E9 : lundi 8 ao=FBt 2016 11:50
=C0 : multipathtcp@ietf.org
Objet : [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item<= /o:p>

 

I had thought a potential charter item could = be something on the lines of:

<Experimental Extensions = to the MPTCP protocol to enable an MPTCP-aware middlebox to act as an MPTCP= proxy for an end host, which runs TCP. One or both end hosts may be MPTCP-= unaware, and the MPTCP proxy(s) is (are) not necessarily on the default routing path(s). The working group will als= o detail, in an Informational document, the use cases /deployment scenarios= and the operational considerations.>

 

[Med] I would like to see th= e charter includes the following; “The working group will also edit N= etwork-Assisted Multipath provisioning documents. In particular, the WG will specify DHCP options and RADIUS attributes for MPTCP.” <= o:p>

 

However, if I get the discussion right, this = is not quite right.

* assume a controlled environment (to avoid a= problem where the message reaches the ‘wrong’ proxy) (IETF usu= ally prefers generally applicable protocols)

* assume some (?additional) ‘header swa= pping’ protocol and a new signalling protocol (not an mptcp extension= – so probably in INTAREA WG’s remit)

[Med] IMHO, it is not odd to document in the = mptcp wg how a Network-Assisted MPTCP solution can also be applicable to other protocols (UDP in particular). This work can b= e done jointly/closely with other WGs. The important point is whether there= is enough interest from the mptpcp WG members to work on this.

If the above is roughly right, then I think s= ome extra work is needed before we can get a clear charter item. Can some o= f the work that isn’t mptcp extensions be cleanly separated out? Can you be clear what deployment assumptions are= being made (and preferably reduce them, so there is wider applicability). = Personally I’d also find it very helpful if the plain/transparent = 216;merged’ draft could try and follow the guidance about protocol models in RFC4101 (personally I found the plain mode doc di= fficult to understand).

 

Thanks

phil

 

 =

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008E3DDE0OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Fri Oct 7 01:52:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E6112953C for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 01:52:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XATOgIHvdC9J for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 01:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7F9712944D for ; 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H:HE1PR07MB1258.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB1258C6846E497208C7E6935B8BC60HE1PR07MB1258eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Oct 2016 08:51:59.2903 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB1257 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SfSyVcRTH+93nee59qLv93Lyc5I+6tTJySZRZS8lMf/RirV2jVhfPMFx6 LpZa665hIaOSMIkl99I1L5mXRctVC63JCJnXebuYGOZlmuXenzb/fc75fs85v3P2YylJLWPL RijjOF6piJIKzem8gHpvJ/fgNblLp6tH6/ykyGP5fZ/Qo7RCi85TfikrLwR+JSUbAr+kqXbh NSrQ/GwoFxWRwPHO5+6Yh89+8o9tDLuXXlkkUqOtwDRkxgJ2A32hAaUhc1aCKxGM5/ZSJPiG oEX/WWQMaJxBQd2UhiFKtgDerg7RJPiKoL76CWNsJsQnoLq40uSyxBoEr7K6aaOwHztDQ9VP oZEtsQvUZDbtsCcYCipNTOOj0LjabGokxjfhR1+rkEzQIehantl+Fcua4WAYznM3ehC2hrUO ncDIFLaBgYk3ArIRhpKmToqwFcyMbzHEHwQfF8eFJH8IZtPVO3wZJtI3THsC1otgOClDRARf 6NCN04QjQVs4wBAOgv6UHEQKGhAU/KraMdlB69wSTYQ/DGxkpJgqJJgDTUUyIqewhaGe1B22 A8NgM5OF7PN3bUE4BrpXSul80zUsoD1vgiZ5GfS/zBYSdoTS4jmKsBPkbunp3fkiJCpHVipO FRwd5uoq4/iIEJUqRilTcnE1aPsvtdRuujSgmekLeoRZJN0nHg1YlUsYRYIqMVqPgKWkluLk W2tyiThUkXif42Nu8/FRnEqPDrK01EZ8umxELsFhijgukuNiOf6/KmDNbNUo//d8guMXGDkW UrCoPn439bF0ocvCwcf3xuipCYPuSBv9PXVp3e1M/IKt64Ox5HJ2U11m5ixLzTx8fezSRXvt 4jtF0cPelCyDp4+Gfy320vb8jWzfnCp/+rzuirfPM+Uez8EQm6szB/bS5X25q4PgT0/mTHut L2y2PfKw/iAZrZHSqnDFSQeKVyn+Ad0ZKE1HAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2016 08:52:11 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB1258C6846E497208C7E6935B8BC60HE1PR07MB1258eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! I agree with Med. Hope we can resolve the charter discussion. Cheers, /Robert From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of moha= med.boucadair@orange.com Sent: den 7 oktober 2016 09:08 To: philip.eardley@bt.com; multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Hi Phil, Please see inline. Cheers, Med De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de phil= ip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9 : lundi 8 ao=FBt 2016 11:50 =C0 : multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item I had thought a potential charter item could be something on the lines of: [Med] I would like to see the charter includes the following; "The working = group will also edit Network-Assisted Multipath provisioning documents. In = particular, the WG will specify DHCP options and RADIUS attributes for MPTC= P." However, if I get the discussion right, this is not quite right. * assume a controlled environment (to avoid a problem where the message rea= ches the 'wrong' proxy) (IETF usually prefers generally applicable protocol= s) * assume some (?additional) 'header swapping' protocol and a new signalling= protocol (not an mptcp extension - so probably in INTAREA WG's remit) [Med] IMHO, it is not odd to document in the mptcp wg how a Network-Assiste= d MPTCP solution can also be applicable to other protocols (UDP in particul= ar). This work can be done jointly/closely with other WGs. The important po= int is whether there is enough interest from the mptpcp WG members to work = on this. If the above is roughly right, then I think some extra work is needed befor= e we can get a clear charter item. Can some of the work that isn't mptcp ex= tensions be cleanly separated out? Can you be clear what deployment assumpt= ions are being made (and preferably reduce them, so there is wider applicab= ility). Personally I'd also find it very helpful if the plain/transparent '= merged' draft could try and follow the guidance about protocol models in RF= C4101 (personally I found the plain mode doc difficult to understand). Thanks phil --_000_HE1PR07MB1258C6846E497208C7E6935B8BC60HE1PR07MB1258eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi!

I agree with Med. Hope we can resolve the charter di= scussion.

 

Cheers,

/Robert

 

From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Sent: den 7 oktober 2016 09:08
To: philip.eardley@bt.com; multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item<= /o:p>

 

Hi Phil,

 

Please see inline.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de philip.eardle= y@bt.com
Envoy=E9 : lundi 8 ao=FBt 2016 11:50
=C0 : multipathtcp@iet= f.org
Objet : [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item<= /o:p>

 

I had thought a potential charter item could = be something on the lines of:

<Experimental Extensions = to the MPTCP protocol to enable an MPTCP-aware middlebox to act as an MPTCP= proxy for an end host, which runs TCP. One or both end hosts may be MPTCP-= unaware, and the MPTCP proxy(s) is (are) not necessarily on the default routing path(s). The working group will als= o detail, in an Informational document, the use cases /deployment scenarios= and the operational considerations.>

 

[Med] I would like to see th= e charter includes the following; “The working group will also edit N= etwork-Assisted Multipath provisioning documents. In particular, the WG will specify DHCP options and RADIUS attributes for MPTCP.” <= o:p>

 

However, if I get the discussion right, this = is not quite right.

* assume a controlled environment (to avoid a= problem where the message reaches the ‘wrong’ proxy) (IETF usu= ally prefers generally applicable protocols)

* assume some (?additional) ‘header swa= pping’ protocol and a new signalling protocol (not an mptcp extension= – so probably in INTAREA WG’s remit)

[Med] IMHO, it is not odd to document in the = mptcp wg how a Network-Assisted MPTCP solution can also be applicable to other protocols (UDP in particular). This work can b= e done jointly/closely with other WGs. The important point is whether there= is enough interest from the mptpcp WG members to work on this.

If the above is roughly right, then I think s= ome extra work is needed before we can get a clear charter item. Can some o= f the work that isn’t mptcp extensions be cleanly separated out? Can you be clear what deployment assumptions are= being made (and preferably reduce them, so there is wider applicability). = Personally I’d also find it very helpful if the plain/transparent = 216;merged’ draft could try and follow the guidance about protocol models in RFC4101 (personally I found the plain mode doc di= fficult to understand).

 

Thanks

phil

 

 =

 

--_000_HE1PR07MB1258C6846E497208C7E6935B8BC60HE1PR07MB1258eurp_-- From nobody Wed Oct 12 15:10:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7BD1294C9 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qQeaQ0aPaX3B for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 735E2129490 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-f52.google.com (mail-vk0-f52.google.com [209.85.213.52]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EE946278273 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 07:10:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-vk0-f52.google.com with SMTP id b186so59269022vkb.1 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlICSxthzWG62+MATNb8RidtcXN9qkbVsAykZfHMWTxww42vUVFSW7lOQAajdhkvRrHh0ar6bj7+OcmDg== X-Received: by 10.31.92.22 with SMTP id q22mr2304872vkb.88.1476310222435; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.65.7 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:10:22 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114e61a262fde0053eb24212 Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] banana X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 22:10:28 -0000 --001a114e61a262fde0053eb24212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I believe some mptcp folks will be interested in this. https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana Looks like they will have a BOF in Seoul. -- Yoshi --001a114e61a262fde0053eb24212 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe some mptcp folks will be interested in this.

Looks like they will have a BOF in Seoul.
--
Yoshi
--001a114e61a262fde0053eb24212-- From nobody Wed Oct 12 23:46:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326FF129639 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 23:46:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mByDIXs10GDx for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 23:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor35.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D1BE1295E5 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 23:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 75578C0954; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 08:46:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.13]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 499471C006D; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 08:46:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::54f9:a6c3:c013:cbc7%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 08:46:11 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida , multipathtcp Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] banana Thread-Index: AQHSJNV0/1giZ2J7vEazo6k+BGPC2aCl8KbQ Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 06:46:10 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D91C25@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 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--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D91C25OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Thu Oct 13 13:34:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81D3129542 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OfCI0_W4IKXQ for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CA1912948D for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-f50.google.com (mail-vk0-f50.google.com [209.85.213.50]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D54E927852F for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 05:34:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-vk0-f50.google.com with SMTP id q126so39854768vkd.2 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RmUjuG+tQO79J8fca/qrrSmVqAAPtBRmnyAk+l13+Z3VonEQmShID7aXSqNeJv46Ujbw+28v8cOvw5hLg== X-Received: by 10.31.5.15 with SMTP id 15mr5317040vkf.164.1476390849093; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.65.7 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D91C25@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D91C25@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:34:08 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143df741c27e4053ec50813 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] banana X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 20:34:18 -0000 --001a1143df741c27e4053ec50813 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, I think people there will think about how to utilize mptcp as a base technology. If there's something affecting mptcp specs, yes, it should be done here. -- Yoshi On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:46 PM, wrote: > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Thank you for sharing the information. > > > > AFAIK, I don=E2=80=99t see the need to create another WG. The MPTCP =E2= =80=9Cmissing > pieces=E2=80=9D can be done here in the mptcp WG as per the current chart= er > discussion. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de= * > Yoshifumi Nishida > *Envoy=C3=A9 **:* jeudi 13 octobre 2016 00:10 > *=C3=80 :* multipathtcp > *Objet :* [multipathtcp] banana > > > > I believe some mptcp folks will be interested in this. > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana > > > > Looks like they will have a BOF in Seoul. > > -- > > Yoshi > --001a1143df741c27e4053ec50813 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med,

I think people there will = think about how to utilize mptcp as a base technology.=C2=A0
If there's something affecting mptcp specs, yes, it should be done he= re.
--
Yoshi

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:46 PM, <moha= med.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

Hi Yoshi,

=C2=A0

Thank you for sharing the informa= tion.

=C2=A0

AFAIK, I don=E2=80=99t see the ne= ed to create another WG. The MPTCP =E2=80=9Cmissing pieces=E2=80=9D can be = done here in the mptcp WG as per the current charter discussion.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtc= p-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Yoshifumi Nishida
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: jeudi 13 octobre 2016 00:10
=C3=80=C2=A0: multipathtcp
Objet=C2=A0: [multipathtcp] banana


--001a1143df741c27e4053ec50813-- From nobody Thu Oct 13 13:44:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F840129650 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CXblQFzB5ITa for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x235.google.com (mail-yw0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EE4112946B for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x235.google.com with SMTP id w3so62368484ywg.1 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v6M2B1cPfYIaYw/MT+fCCwXAOOyrqs+Kz9wVem/xudE=; b=Gwsi22DWLITZGxInLToNzS3uCxfijKfoD6FZ+9ElFD6mrhn9P/3T+7BBGclCPePjg7 F7wagUfS6BZwzHGJLg30GY3NWAdkhfwd3mLcbce+vgBBQ+GLnXskHMLUlwXii7S15iem CzMJdekYVibd3Ss6OoU8iGmIEhEg9J3tOZsXC8vl+/Hat2809BgLk5CmsgIVt1eQVMrB XkL5Y2HoZxZX6Ae3cxdssc/SWci9c43WDL/UtEvgfCFoWY6+vcdfV9B/LIupKZPoXUS2 ON5sZ038GSKuHGy0ndLP1X/wZvXQdoh+r871G99Nc5W4+9z2mlUdM/7I7sZxjrZt+iop szPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v6M2B1cPfYIaYw/MT+fCCwXAOOyrqs+Kz9wVem/xudE=; b=LxtoACKYV9gCCukTnuykW2zyfo4ABFfPcoDVV5oiWB1TwjVnB1j+5JrJY5fej67EfC ytZllGn5GHHVpXo9lGaBRHPLCx+3VehgvbKeOdsCYhI7tGIwSooDq8DOJsMmnBT42jId zEWK5dhjx7vg8wA1JVrhwUtj3MOGAp1wmxVAIK8OAvfJAJqFqUYLPSL7mc9zrYxmBX60 jgBYGn527QXXpR62LOLZ8TMFUrsu6cAQ4ifxwL7mbCxUWfStakJ9ruGdNRzyh3BPTVF5 lOm1DESqOV3SynJMaYyTvkwdDvxUT0Nz8+tRu/KDoPSc9miwp44c6HBbhIKzxB7NXaJ4 aarg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlQCl9RJbCX73H/lf+IK8TeJ16YUE43Pzi6+MjEbUTY/cRYsDj+WkDOLTIcBCrcWhvbTdZDRzb97POAyw== X-Received: by 10.129.77.84 with SMTP id a81mr7156458ywb.19.1476391473587; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.92.67 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.92.67 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:44:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D91C25@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 15:44:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: Yoshifumi Nishida Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140b7ac55912a053ec52df0 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] banana X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 20:44:36 -0000 --001a1140b7ac55912a053ec52df0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear MPTCP folk, On Oct 13, 2016 15:34, "Yoshifumi Nishida" wrote: > > Hi Med, > > I think people there will think about how to utilize mptcp as a base technology. > If there's something affecting mptcp specs, yes, it should be done here. Yes, exactly as Yoshi said. I'd only add that the drafts in the BOF description list MPTCP as one of three or four possible solutions with (in my opinion) very different characteristics, and this (non-workgroup-forming) BOF is intended to help the BANANA community understand whether the community members are all trying to solve the same problem, and better understand how the proposed solutions might map on the problem(s) they're trying to solve. So, no, not trying to form an MPTCP working group in another area. Thanks, Spencer > Yoshi > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:46 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi Yoshi, >> >> >> >> Thank you for sharing the information. >> >> >> >> AFAIK, I don=E2=80=99t see the need to create another WG. The MPTCP =E2= =80=9Cmissing pieces=E2=80=9D can be done here in the mptcp WG as per the current charter discussion. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Med >> >> >> >> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Yoshifumi Nishida >> Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 13 octobre 2016 00:10 >> =C3=80 : multipathtcp >> Objet : [multipathtcp] banana >> >> >> >> I believe some mptcp folks will be interested in this. >> >> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana >> >> >> >> Looks like they will have a BOF in Seoul. >> >> -- >> >> Yoshi > > > > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp > --001a1140b7ac55912a053ec52df0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear MPTCP folk,

Yes, exactly as Yoshi said.

I'd only add that the drafts in the BOF description list= MPTCP as one of three or four possible solutions with (in my opinion) very= different characteristics, and this (non-workgroup-forming) BOF is intende= d to help the BANANA community understand whether the community members are= all trying to solve the same problem, and better understand how the propos= ed solutions might map on the problem(s) they're trying to solve.

So, no, not trying to form an MPTCP working group in another= area.

Thanks,

Spencer

> Yoshi
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:46 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Yoshi,
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> Thank you for sharing the information.
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> AFAIK, I don=E2=80=99t see the need to create another WG. The MPTC= P =E2=80=9Cmissing pieces=E2=80=9D can be done here in the mptcp WG as per = the current charter discussion.
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Med
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> De=C2=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Yoshifumi Ni= shida
>> Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: jeudi 13 octobre 2016 00:10
>> =C3=80=C2=A0: multipathtcp
>> Objet=C2=A0: [multipathtcp] banana
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> I believe some mptcp folks will be interested in this.
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana
>>
>> =C2=A0
>>
>> Looks like they will have a BOF in Seoul.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Yoshi
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>

--001a1140b7ac55912a053ec52df0-- From nobody Sun Oct 16 22:47:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B97129507 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.831 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.831 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GBD8f_rk1UrW for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDA07129430 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-f46.google.com (mail-vk0-f46.google.com [209.85.213.46]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B366B278433 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:47:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-vk0-f46.google.com with SMTP id b186so162950698vkb.1 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlC2obwFb0NyeJjjhV44Fd3vaKsBPTnkzHuABB7F0tJzDlH49zmUjoU4F7UIWS/rqouYUUmN2GOajC3Dg== X-Received: by 10.31.120.14 with SMTP id t14mr15855235vkc.55.1476683252468; Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.65.7 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:47:31 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c149866b59445053f091c10 Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] agenda for mptcp meeting at IETF 97 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 05:47:37 -0000 --94eb2c149866b59445053f091c10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello, According to the preliminary agenda (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ meeting/97/agenda.html), we will have a 2-hour meeting slot on ** 11/14 Monday afternoon (13:30 -15:30) **. If you're planning to present something, please provide us the following info. 1: presenter's name 2: title 3: length of the presentation Thanks, -- Yoshi & Phil --94eb2c149866b59445053f091c10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
According to the preliminary agenda (http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/agenda.html), we will have a 2= -hour meeting slot on ** 11/14 Monday afternoon (13:30 -15:30) **.

I= f you're planning to present something, please provide us the following= info.

=C2=A0 =C2=A01: presenter's name
=C2=A0 =C2=A02: titl= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A03: length of the presentation

Thanks,
--
Yos= hi & Phil
--94eb2c149866b59445053f091c10-- From nobody Mon Oct 17 05:57:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 577C512964A for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 05:57:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2SAYTpcVBo7X for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 05:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp3.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C11B1295E9 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 05:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbpobo.dhcp.info.ucl.ac.be (unknown [130.104.228.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp3.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp3.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D869567DBFD; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:57:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp3.sgsi.ucl.ac.be D869567DBFD DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1476709050; bh=89D8zLxvwjcsclKFBQbqo4bccsUf10QtJagYEkimUms=; h=Reply-To:To:From:Subject:Cc:Date; b=NCIJqY8mU2g+A/DK1FDTSi2XsXUJVih9+2y0Hh/TUmaZpg3cQ896n7DYFemTsbqaN oux4qI+Nto2fquDgHynAj576cRoNfLONYboNmehDci/josuoNgmGCIU3+7KBZ3aDA4 SC4GWXCS43QkU3FrnWf//OO4UB0gX/fy7jvualLM= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99 at smtp-3 To: multipathtcp From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: <74159b68-e6f1-e314-1aa4-dbb1faeaac2c@uclouvain.be> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:57:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: D869567DBFD.A52BC X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] MPTCP hackathon @ietf97 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 12:57:42 -0000 Hello, During the last IETF meeting, we have presented a socket API that allows an application to control the underlying MPTCP stack. This socket API has been documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hesmans-mptcp-socket-00 and https://irtf.org/anrw/2016/anrw16-final16.pdf Since this presentation, Benjamin has improved the code a lot and he will release the patch for the Linux kernel in the coming days. With this new socket API, it becomes possible for application developpers to tune their application for MPTCP. We expect that this will enable new use cases where MPTCP is used intelligently by the client and the server. Benjamin will attend IETF'97 and will organise a hackathon on using this enhanced socket API. If you are an application developper who would like to better interact with MPTCP, please contact us in advance so that we can prepare VMs and other supporting material to help you benefit from this hackathon. If there is some interest in the WG, Benjamin could present a short summmary of the lessons learned from this hackathon. Olivier From nobody Mon Oct 17 14:22:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACEE1294EA for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TVNRHs_Ehclj for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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23:22:03 +0200 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "philip.eardley@bt.com" , "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMQ== Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 21:22:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1b.0.161010 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.40] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CCD1A9870F3C47758B0E5232965E7E22nokiacom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 21:22:09 -0000 --_000_CCD1A9870F3C47758B0E5232965E7E22nokiacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.59]) by omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id AF07A23806E; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:52:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::ec23:902:c31f:731c%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:52:37 +0200 From: To: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)" , "philip.eardley@bt.com" , "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCttfyg Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 05:52:37 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.10.18.45416 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 05:52:42 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgV2ltLA0KDQpZZXMsIHRoaXMgY2FuIGJlIG1haW4gc3RyZWFtLg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQN Cg0KRGUgOiBIZW5kZXJpY2t4LCBXaW0gKE5va2lhIC0gQkUpIFttYWlsdG86d2ltLmhlbmRlcmlj a3hAbm9raWEuY29tXQ0KRW52b3nDqSA6IGx1bmRpIDE3IG9jdG9icmUgMjAxNiAyMzoyMg0Kw4Ag OiBCT1VDQURBSVIgTW9oYW1lZCBJTVQvT0xOOyBwaGlsaXAuZWFyZGxleUBidC5jb207IG11bHRp cGF0aHRjcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KT2JqZXQgOiBSZTogW211bHRpcGF0aHRjcF0gcG90ZW50aWFsIE1Q 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572591296AB for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:46:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1-9ZxIfCWM6U for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC6F51296B6 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2055FD930E; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:46:19 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id wGFe3NVKMC2A; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:46:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.168.178.33] (p5DEC2052.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.236.32.82]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2611D930C; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:46:18 +0200 (MEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:46:16 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:46:27 -0000 Hi Med, hi all, there are two cases to distinguish here: 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP connection = and open a new MPTCP connection 2) you tunnel other traffic over MPTCP Case two is using TCP as a tunneling mechanism. This is discussed in = several working groups for different purposes and is not very = straight-forward in a lot of cases. Such an approach definitely needs = coordination and transport as well as tunnel expertise. Which case are you talking about? While Phil=E2=80=99s proposal sounded = rather like case 1, your proposal sounds very much like case 2. Mirja > Am 18.10.2016 um 07:52 schrieb mohamed.boucadair@orange.com: >=20 > Hi Wim, > =20 > Yes, this can be main stream. > =20 > Cheers, > Med > =20 > De : Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE) [mailto:wim.henderickx@nokia.com]=20 > Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 17 octobre 2016 23:22 > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; philip.eardley@bt.com; = multipathtcp@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item > =20 > Sorry for the late reply, but more in-line > =20 > From: multipathtcp on behalf of = "mohamed. boucadair" > Date: Friday, 7 October 2016 at 09:08 > To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" , = "multipathtcp@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item > =20 > Hi Phil, > =20 > Please see inline. > =20 > Cheers, > Med > =20 > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de = philip.eardley@bt.com > Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 8 ao=C3=BBt 2016 11:50 > =C3=80 : multipathtcp@ietf.org > Objet : [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item > =20 > I had thought a potential charter item could be something on the lines = of: > > =20 > [Med] I would like to see the charter includes the following; =E2=80=9CT= he working group will also edit Network-Assisted Multipath provisioning = documents. In particular, the WG will specify DHCP options and RADIUS = attributes for MPTCP.=E2=80=9D=20 > =20 > =20 > WH> I am fine with this, but why do we state experimental extensions? = Why is this not main stream? > However, if I get the discussion right, this is not quite right. > * assume a controlled environment (to avoid a problem where the = message reaches the =E2=80=98wrong=E2=80=99 proxy) (IETF usually prefers = generally applicable protocols) > * assume some (?additional) =E2=80=98header swapping=E2=80=99 protocol = and a new signalling protocol (not an mptcp extension =E2=80=93 so = probably in INTAREA WG=E2=80=99s remit) > [Med] IMHO, it is not odd to document in the mptcp wg how a = Network-Assisted MPTCP solution can also be applicable to other = protocols (UDP in particular). This work can be done jointly/closely = with other WGs. The important point is whether there is enough interest = from the mptpcp WG members to work on this. > WH> indeed is to specify the means in MPTCP WG and other WG can be = consulted to review the work. If you split it out it becomes less = efficient from a protocol perspective. > If the above is roughly right, then I think some extra work is needed = before we can get a clear charter item. Can some of the work that = isn=E2=80=99t mptcp extensions be cleanly separated out? Can you be = clear what deployment assumptions are being made (and preferably reduce = them, so there is wider applicability). Personally I=E2=80=99d also find = it very helpful if the plain/transparent =E2=80=98merged=E2=80=99 draft = could try and follow the guidance about protocol models in RFC4101 = (personally I found the plain mode doc difficult to understand). > =20 > Thanks > phil > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Tue Oct 18 21:05:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFFA12943F for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:05:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32J2e92xHu4n for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D079D1293F4 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712umx3.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.245.210.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id EFBDE2C334298; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:05:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by fr712umx3.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO-o) with ESMTP id u9J45IWS005731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:05:18 GMT Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id u9J45HGm017771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Oct 2016 06:05:17 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.176]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 06:05:17 +0200 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)" To: =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMQ== Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:05:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> In-Reply-To: <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1b.0.161010 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <43767A0D4CA91D44BCF800AD05DBF305@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:05:23 -0000 Q2FzZSAxIGlzIGEgbWFuZGF0b3J5IA0KSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHNlZSBjYXNlIDIgYXMgd2Vs bCwgYnV0IEkgYWdyZWUgb24gY29vcmRpbmF0aW9uDQoNCk9uIDE4LzEwLzIwMTYsIDE3OjQ2LCAi TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZCIgPG1pcmphLmt1ZWhsZXdpbmRAdGlrLmVlLmV0aHouY2g+IHdyb3Rl Og0KDQogICAgSGkgTWVkLCBoaSBhbGwsDQogICAgDQogICAgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHR3byBjYXNlcyB0 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Tue, 18 Oct 2016 22:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 68D9B20D55; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 07:28:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.24]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 39AD3120059; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 07:28:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9044:c5ee:4dd2:4f16%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 07:28:04 +0200 From: To: =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKVbGTNxXppvZj0+vwLr7Jo/4gaCvPmIg Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 05:28:02 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D94DFB@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> In-Reply-To: <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 05:28:09 -0000 SGkgTWlyamEsIA0KDQpJJ20gZm9yIHRoZXNlIHR3byBjYXNlcyB0byBiZSBpbmNsdWRlZDoNCiog Q2FzZSAxIGlzIHRoZSBtYW5kYXRvcnkgcGllY2UgdG8gaGF2ZS4NCiogQ2FzZSAyIHNvbHZlcyB0 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[81.142.89.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id yo1sm67696844wjc.16.2016.10.19.02.45.56 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Oct 2016 02:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alan Ford In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D94DFB@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 10:45:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D94DFB@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 09:46:01 -0000 Do you guys expect any impact on the base protocol from this work? Regards, Alan > On 19 Oct 2016, at 06:28, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >=20 > Hi Mirja,=20 >=20 > I'm for these two cases to be included: > * Case 1 is the mandatory piece to have. > * Case 2 solves the problem for no TCP traffic while leveraging on the = same extensions that are used for case 1. =20 >=20 > I do fully agree that case 2 requires inter-area/WG coordination.=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Mirja K=C3=BChlewind [mailto:mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch] >> Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 18 octobre 2016 17:46 >> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN >> Cc : Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE); philip.eardley@bt.com; >> multipathtcp@ietf.org >> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>=20 >> Hi Med, hi all, >>=20 >> there are two cases to distinguish here: >>=20 >> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP = connection and >> open a new MPTCP connection >>=20 >> 2) you tunnel other traffic over MPTCP >>=20 >> Case two is using TCP as a tunneling mechanism. This is discussed in >> several working groups for different purposes and is not very = straight- >> forward in a lot of cases. Such an approach definitely needs = coordination >> and transport as well as tunnel expertise. >>=20 >> Which case are you talking about? While Phil=E2=80=99s proposal = sounded rather >> like case 1, your proposal sounds very much like case 2. >>=20 >> Mirja >>=20 >>=20 >>> Am 18.10.2016 um 07:52 schrieb mohamed.boucadair@orange.com: >>>=20 >>> Hi Wim, >>>=20 >>> Yes, this can be main stream. >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>>=20 >>> De : Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE) [mailto:wim.henderickx@nokia.com] >>> Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 17 octobre 2016 23:22 >>> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; philip.eardley@bt.com; >> multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>>=20 >>> Sorry for the late reply, but more in-line >>>=20 >>> From: multipathtcp on behalf of >> "mohamed. boucadair" >>> Date: Friday, 7 October 2016 at 09:08 >>> To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" , >> "multipathtcp@ietf.org" >>> Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>>=20 >>> Hi Phil, >>>=20 >>> Please see inline. >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>>=20 >>> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part = de >> philip.eardley@bt.com >>> Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 8 ao=C3=BBt 2016 11:50 >>> =C3=80 : multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> Objet : [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>>=20 >>> I had thought a potential charter item could be something on the = lines >> of: >>> > middlebox to act as an MPTCP proxy for an end host, which runs TCP. = One or >> both end hosts may be MPTCP-unaware, and the MPTCP proxy(s) is (are) = not >> necessarily on the default routing path(s). The working group will = also >> detail, in an Informational document, the use cases /deployment = scenarios >> and the operational considerations.> >>>=20 >>> [Med] I would like to see the charter includes the following; =E2=80=9C= The >> working group will also edit Network-Assisted Multipath provisioning >> documents. In particular, the WG will specify DHCP options and RADIUS >> attributes for MPTCP.=E2=80=9D >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> WH> I am fine with this, but why do we state experimental = extensions? >> Why is this not main stream? >>> However, if I get the discussion right, this is not quite right. >>> * assume a controlled environment (to avoid a problem where the = message >> reaches the =E2=80=98wrong=E2=80=99 proxy) (IETF usually prefers = generally applicable >> protocols) >>> * assume some (?additional) =E2=80=98header swapping=E2=80=99 = protocol and a new >> signalling protocol (not an mptcp extension =E2=80=93 so probably in = INTAREA WG=E2=80=99s >> remit) >>> [Med] IMHO, it is not odd to document in the mptcp wg how a Network- >> Assisted MPTCP solution can also be applicable to other protocols = (UDP in >> particular). This work can be done jointly/closely with other WGs. = The >> important point is whether there is enough interest from the mptpcp = WG >> members to work on this. >>> WH> indeed is to specify the means in MPTCP WG and other WG can be >> consulted to review the work. If you split it out it becomes less >> efficient from a protocol perspective. >>> If the above is roughly right, then I think some extra work is = needed >> before we can get a clear charter item. Can some of the work that = isn=E2=80=99t >> mptcp extensions be cleanly separated out? Can you be clear what >> deployment assumptions are being made (and preferably reduce them, so >> there is wider applicability). Personally I=E2=80=99d also find it = very helpful if >> the plain/transparent =E2=80=98merged=E2=80=99 draft could try and = follow the guidance >> about protocol models in RFC4101 (personally I found the plain mode = doc >> difficult to understand). >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>> phil >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multipathtcp mailing list >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Wed Oct 19 08:17:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15FA312961B for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:17:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zxOZUceHPu4 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E0FB128874 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712umx4.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.245.210.45]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 1481DFDC7B1AF; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:17:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by fr712umx4.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO-o) with ESMTP id u9JFHZtc023418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:17:35 GMT Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id u9JFHYle004038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Oct 2016 17:17:35 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.176]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 17:17:34 +0200 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)" To: Alan Ford , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCvPmIggAApyoCAAH4vgA== Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:17:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D94DFB@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1b.0.161010 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1206A796DFA27A4484DF407249A79F1D@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:17:41 -0000 SSBkb27igJl0IGV4cGVjdCBjaGFuZ2VzIHRvIHRoZSBiYXNlIHNwZWMuIEFUIGxlYXN0IG5vdCB3 aXRoIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHZpZXcgb2YgdGhlIHNvbHV0aW9uL2ltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucy4NCg0K 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f7q5qM8jQnHN for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38E4912941E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.239] (ptr-178-50-74-72.dyn.mobistar.be [178.50.74.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp1.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp1.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7881E67DB26; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:51:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp1.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 7881E67DB26 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1476906678; bh=B51YSerB1ZReGamdlEkGlT6BS5PIB++54msDGuMkQ5Y=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=OATeYP8O8CsL3YXYh3T92P5+QFO9Wz2OfJ9EsBPImskkNEfqjmVHHYsvX4/Sc8/13 s2pFyufoA6OGwzSo0fuF2AalwbxrbR+w5SzQy7BgVEw4UUOUI+lB8PfRgzoLoooSyu 5BFLBjIpkOLq8qI3k44hzqu1ksEMe9yscdMl1iko= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99 at smtp-1 References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= , mohamed.boucadair@orange.com From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:42:18 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 7881E67DB26.A5299 X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 19:51:39 -0000 Mirja, > > there are two cases to distinguish here: > > 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP connection and open a new MPTCP connection There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there are various implementations that are available or are being developped. Several deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of services. It would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after having spent years to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. Olivier From nobody Wed Oct 19 13:36:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2493012947E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:36:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xp7svEmDWb39 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D51C3129513 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0A0D930C; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:36:25 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 9xc4g5EKOM3J; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:36:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.168.178.33] (p5DEC2E3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.236.46.60]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D728ED9304; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:36:24 +0200 (MEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= In-Reply-To: <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:36:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:36:32 -0000 Hi Olivier, I think both cases are valid and interesting for the IETF. The questions = is where to address them. As I said case 1 could be in scope for MPTCP = or actually is probably already with the current charter.=20 The other question however is, what does the IETF need to do here. I = believe most of this use case can just be done right now without any = further actions of the IETF. I know there is a proposal for an MPTCP extension to support this use = case. I would recommend to separate this out from the operational = consideration because specifying the extension is clearly in scope for = the working group. My 2c. Mirja =20 > Am 19.10.2016 um 21:42 schrieb Olivier Bonaventure = : >=20 > Mirja, >>=20 >> there are two cases to distinguish here: >>=20 >> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP = connection and open a new MPTCP connection >=20 > There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there are = various implementations that are available or are being developped. = Several deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of = services. It would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after = having spent years to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Olivier From nobody Wed Oct 19 13:57:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722E11294D6 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:57:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cVfg_ew3euyJ for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A44812945E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-f46.google.com (mail-vk0-f46.google.com [209.85.213.46]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F8CA2783C7 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 05:57:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-vk0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 83so43955598vkd.0 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9Rn6c+CJyUMPevdCBd7QCE9sRlnilI0b9kaX0nRBpp2vI0kOBu5p3HKHnyGLJi6rG49iVAk7d/JRorS+Ig== X-Received: by 10.31.152.195 with SMTP id a186mr7210732vke.79.1476910619879; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.65.7 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 13:56:59 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:57:05 -0000 Hello, On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Olivier Bonaventure wrote: > Mirja, >> >> >> there are two cases to distinguish here: >> >> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP connection and >> open a new MPTCP connection > > > There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there are various > implementations that are available or are being developped. Several > deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of services. It > would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after having spent years > to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. I also think we should not ignore the use case. But, I am somehow thinking that we might want to clarify the terminologies a bit more so that we can have more clear focus. I might be wrong, but these words give me the following impressions. 1: Protocol X proxy: It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . From one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end speaks protocol X. 2: Tunneling over protocol X Protocol X carries other protocol Y packets (by using encapsulation) All info in protocol Y (headers, etc) will be preserved. 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. Some info in the original protocol might be lost due to the conversion. If I follow these impressions, it seems that some proposals are close to 3. (again, I might be wrong) I might want to check if we want to clarify this point in the charter or leave it ambiguous. I am just wondering if we might need to clarify the terminology or adding some texts to avoid miscommunications. Thanks, -- Yoshi From nobody Wed Oct 19 21:01:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328F812946C for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:01:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IezOcscLoax9 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84016129497 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 21:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712umx3.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.245.210.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 21CA3559AFCA1; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 04:01:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by fr712umx3.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO-o) with ESMTP id u9K418E0011102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 20 Oct 2016 04:01:09 GMT Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id u9K4171x028498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 20 Oct 2016 06:01:07 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.36]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 06:01:07 +0200 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)" To: Alan Ford , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCvPmIggAApyoCAAH4vgIAA1VSA Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 04:01:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D94DFB@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1b.0.161010 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.40] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8931CD635C859243AC4E1DBF3D994035@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 04:01:15 -0000 QWxhbiwgb25lIHRoaW5nIHRoYXQgY2FtZSB0byBtaW5kIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgbG9uZyBUQ1Agb3B0 aW9uIGZvciBwbGFpbi1tb2RlL1RGTyBzb21ldGhpbmcgbWlnaHQgYmUgcmVxdWlyZWQgaW4gdGhl IGJhc2UgZHJhZnQuDQpGb3IgSXB2NiB3ZSBuZWVkIG1vcmUgc3BhY2UgYW5kIGlmIHdlIGRlc2ln biBpdCB3ZWxsIHdlIGNhbiB1c2UgaXQgZm9yIFRDUC1BTywgZXRjIGV0Yw0KDQpCZXNpZGVzIHRo aXMgd2UgYXJlIGdvb2QgYWZhaXMgDQoNCk9uIDE5LzEwLzIwMTYsIDE3OjE3LCAiSGVuZGVyaWNr eCwgV2ltIChOb2tpYSAtIEJFKSIgPHdpbS5oZW5kZXJpY2t4QG5va2lhLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoN CiAgICBJIGRvbuKAmXQgZXhwZWN0IGNoYW5nZXMgdG8gdGhlIGJhc2Ugc3BlYy4gQVQgbGVhc3Qg bm90IHdpdGggdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgdmlldyBvZiB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24vaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25z Lg0KICAgIA0KICAgIE9uIDE5LzEwLzIwMTYsIDExOjQ1LCAibXVsdGlwYXRodGNwIG9uIGJlaGFs 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X18NCiAgICAgICAgbXVsdGlwYXRodGNwIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgICAgICBtdWx0aXBhdGh0 Y3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3ANCiAgICAgICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Oct 19 22:56:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6BCF129441 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:56:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.05 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.05 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZI54TwLit6uE for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor36.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C461312943F for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 9A532C0E3D; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:56:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.69]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 6A0C712006E; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:56:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bc1c:ad2f:eda3:8c3d%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:56:47 +0200 From: To: Alan Ford Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKe2YbcpIYSt9B0aTZVhfvo8tF6Cw1/QQ Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 05:56:46 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9572E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D94DFB@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 05:56:51 -0000 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YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbXVsdGlwYXRodGNwDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IG11bHRpcGF0aHRjcCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj4gPiBtdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL211bHRpcGF0aHRjcA0KDQo= From nobody Wed Oct 19 22:59:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D1A129441 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o1vFDyyLAMSc for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0E8412943F for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by omfedm13.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 5A55432542A; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:58:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.57]) by omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 36D58238072; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:58:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::787e:db0c:23c4:71b3%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:58:57 +0200 From: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mirja_K=FChlewind?= , "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKkDmbcpIYSt9B0aTZVhfvo8tF6CwGuEAgAC5iJA= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 05:58:58 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D95743@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.10.20.51517 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 05:59:02 -0000 Hi Mirja,=20 Please see inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Mirja K=FChlewind [mailto:mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch] > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 19 octobre 2016 22:36 > =C0=A0: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be > Cc=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; multipathtcp@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >=20 > Hi Olivier, >=20 > I think both cases are valid and interesting for the IETF. The questions > is where to address them. As I said case 1 could be in scope for MPTCP or > actually is probably already with the current charter. >=20 > The other question however is, what does the IETF need to do here. I > believe most of this use case can just be done right now without any > further actions of the IETF. [Med] Yes, there are some implementations and even deployments. The feedbac= k from some of these deployments is that, for example, they are suffering f= rom long setup delays of MPTCP connections vs. TCP. For non-TCP solutions, = most of deployments require that the same vendor provide both the CPE and t= he concentrator located in the network side! ...=20 Because existing solutions are not optimized and suffer from interoperabili= ty issues, there is a need for IETF protocol extensions. =20 >=20 > I know there is a proposal for an MPTCP extension to support this use > case. I would recommend to separate this out from the operational > consideration because specifying the extension is clearly in scope for th= e > working group. [Med] I agree that this should be separated. My take on this is that we nee= d this set of documents:=20 * MPTCP extension: Specify the MPTCP option and its usage * An Informational document on use cases/deployment scenarios and the opera= tional considerations * MPTCP provisioning DHCP/RADIUS documents.=20 >=20 > My 2c. > Mirja >=20 >=20 > > Am 19.10.2016 um 21:42 schrieb Olivier Bonaventure > : > > > > Mirja, > >> > >> there are two cases to distinguish here: > >> > >> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP connection > and open a new MPTCP connection > > > > There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there are > various implementations that are available or are being developped. > Several deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of > services. It would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after > having spent years to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. > > > > > > > > Olivier From nobody Wed Oct 19 23:14:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C9112986E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qGA3qKREdr_C for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor35.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4992512952E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 996FD20F18; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 08:14:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.24]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7068E1A0066; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 08:14:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9044:c5ee:4dd2:4f16%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 08:14:51 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida , "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKkDmbcpIYSt9B0aTZVhfvo8tF6CwIKGAgAC5KMA= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 06:14:50 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 06:14:55 -0000 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Z3kgb3INCj4gYWRkaW5nIHNvbWUgdGV4dHMgdG8gYXZvaWQgbWlzY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMuDQo+ IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IC0tDQo+IFlvc2hpDQo= From nobody Wed Oct 19 23:50:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61119129518 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gvOGUNEyTaNC for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE8BD1294F4 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 23:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by omfedm12.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 371DE18CBD0; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 08:50:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.33]) by omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 10CE427C064; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 08:50:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d5fd:9c7d:2ee3:39d9%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 08:50:24 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida , "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" , "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKkDm5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCwIKGAgACb3QCAACXdwA== Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 06:50:24 +0000 Message-ID: <22907_1476946228_58086934_22907_5464_1_a7bca8d2-7656-4ff0-9f01-cf307f017148@OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.10.20.55417 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 06:50:32 -0000 V0csDQoNCkxldCBtZSBzZWNvbmQgTWVkJ3MgcmVjZW50IHJlcGxpZXMgdG8gWW9zaGksIE1pcmph IGFuZCBBbGFuLiANCg0KSSB0b28gYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGUgbXB0Y3AgV0cgaXMgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IHBs YWNlaG9sZGVyIHRvIHdvcmsgb24gYW4gTVBUQ1AgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIHRoYXQgY2FuIGFjY29tbW9k YXRlIHVzZSBjYXNlcyB3aGljaCBhcmUgY3VycmVudGx5IGJlaW5nIGludmVzdGlnYXRlZCwgbWFy a2V0ZWQgYW5kIC0geWVzIC0gZGVwbG95ZWQgKGZvciBzb21lIG9mIHRoZW0sIHdpdGggdGhlaXIg cHJvY2Vzc2lvbiBvZiBhbHJlYWR5LWRvY3VtZW50ZWQgZHJhd2JhY2tzIChUQ1Atb25seSBjb21t dW5pY2F0aW9ucykgYW5kIGZsYXdzLCBsaWtlIFFvUy1hZmZlY3Rpbmcgc2lnbmFsaW5nIGRlbGF5 cykgYnkgc29tZSBvcGVyYXRvcnMuDQoNClRoZXNlIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBtYWlubHkgZmFsbCB1bmRl ciB0aGUgc28tY2FsbGVkIGh5YnJpZCBhY2Nlc3Mgc2VydmljZSBvZmZlcmluZyB1bWJyZWxsYSwg 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([10.164.51.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0669.018; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:01:35 +0000 From: Robert Skog To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Yoshifumi Nishida" , "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" , "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCttfyggACmEACAAdRHAIAAFN6AgACb3QCAAApB4A== Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:01:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=robert.skog@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.84] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7506ff96-0d38-4bd6-ade9-08d3f8b6ee94 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB1259; 6:0+IYLDqbA7gD7WT9DJqcv1sRPn4oavkB0oh2QFArAEiu3+Nux57QMl2nFw3f7Zm+OBjLeL86cYbstUD0XUrJBRXqdK06W63x7WB12JEGp+ad7kB5KybxkcMpaolGWYSmsetUS4uye2ZYFDjxKZtt0RvL3kbce61uCmQB1sIPK3ZMigEWElZq7oMLY3c7ERWljXlfevb6FOz6NL85Q5BjjS7evdn+RQY+wbjCikwOWTg0ZB0mvWRDpyrF/mlHpjVP9ckFrEIO5d5/CvqKWfladnchtwuR2tn43XTk7QJr4PyrTcZ7R/z3twB1hLAc/XBE; 5:ebHd35ss2MFpFxgiqJur9P+YnwgzPdJmN9LSkbSdIuwtJaUUr0jwQkvVSipAYrq+zVddW+F4DFcJuG2aLeccwRwHT9vSJDpYGt9J4KbT2LSrHkn+OOjhZrApVgXiGkXA6kkKlELJ0G6M+RE8PkMJehM5k5uA3+5MndhFUxB9f1s=; 24:yJBykfDnkjWipqha9V+sS3wpGRfxPdKw0R/EmiO/Bm47AFmu3RGjxpOqQUEtlGCLoBpJYLSyVaLodC8QYbulcYHQSnzh6GF7tkg0+OQRNvs=; 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Oct 2016 07:01:35.3554 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB1259 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0iTYRTHe/a+216Hg8d5OywLHQRpXkqjhoQlVAwhCj/YqCBnvrihm7bX JCvISgs1LfACW7SpU3SZDcWZloKXEu2LV6Z08dK8lDq6rLA0pW3vgr79zvn/zznPOTwUIdJz xZRKk0trNYosCU9A6uTP46ImMin5/rJRf+mAY5EvdTZP8aSt9dM86XTBL/IYKauv/82RFS4N 82Rjq1OEbGVwnTxDnhMcSaezVHm0NiYhVaD807lN5sxEXP15z8gtQKPhJciHAnwQbs2ZOCVI QImwBcHd8VZvMIRgoqGbcAckLiOg0fSKZJUqDtwervbaBhF8d24R7mY8HAmttRauWwjADgSO NqtH8McJ8LpqkuvmAHwUzC2LfJZToHr2B8fNJN4Dz3qsHo8QXwBdgxOxE2oJ6DBXeRr54DTY Hqkg3YxwEKy/eeopJnAwvF0wctiVMNR3jxAsB8Jn+zaX9Z+Hl1/tPDYfCiulBV4+BXVflj3r AC6koKnQ7CqgXMFJGNPls55MmF61EWw6Hkwdway9E4G1rNg7NwR0cy18VjDxoHLb4HmECNPQ 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcEBp ZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tdWx0aXBhdGh0 Y3ANCg== From nobody Fri Oct 21 16:25:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E821298AD; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:21:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.36.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <147709207435.28214.10541604802213089592.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:21:14 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net Subject: [multipathtcp] mptcp - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 97 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 23:21:18 -0000 Dear Yoshifumi Nishida, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. mptcp Session 1 (2:00:00) Monday, Afternoon Session I 1330-1530 Room Name: Park Ballroom 2 size: 125 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Multipath TCP Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Yoshifumi Nishida Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: ippm tcpinc tcpm tsvarea tsvwg lmap tls Second Priority: taps iccrg rtcweb Third Priority: nfvrg sdnrg quic Special Requests: sessions on separate days - preferably separated by a day. please avoid any transport area BoFs --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Oct 25 05:06:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA5EB12947C for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 05:06:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DpwbqxRYnAph for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 05:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FEE21293D9 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 05:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7071AD930D; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:06:47 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 93tHwo2tox8q; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:06:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.2.117.87] (public-docking-etx-1365.ethz.ch [10.2.117.87]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28B17D9305; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:06:47 +0200 (MEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= In-Reply-To: <22907_1476946228_58086934_22907_5464_1_a7bca8d2-7656-4ff0-9f01-cf307f017148@OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:06:47 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <57543A7A-1542-4C60-A5D3-E1658354BE5A@tik.ee.ethz.ch> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <22907_1476946228_58086934_22907_5464_1_a7bca8d2-7656-4ff0-9f01-cf307f017148@OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: christian.jacquenet@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:06:54 -0000 Hi all, hi Christian, see below. > Am 20.10.2016 um 08:50 schrieb christian.jacquenet@orange.com: >=20 > WG, >=20 > Let me second Med's recent replies to Yoshi, Mirja and Alan.=20 >=20 > I too believe the mptcp WG is the right placeholder to work on an = MPTCP extension that can accommodate use cases which are currently being = investigated, marketed and - yes - deployed (for some of them, with = their procession of already-documented drawbacks (TCP-only = communications) and flaws, like QoS-affecting signaling delays) by some = operators. >=20 > These use cases mainly fall under the so-called hybrid access service = offering umbrella, so that end-users can take advantage of various = access network technologies for the sake of optimized resource usage, = among other incentives. I agree that these use case are interesting and work is needed here. See = further below. >=20 > I also believe MPTCP is the right solution to address such use cases. As I mention previously there are two very different deployment = scenarios: a connection-terminating MPTCP proxy or a MPTCP tunnel = solution. In general using TCP as a tunneling technology is challenging = and has a broader scope than just MPTCP. > As I already mentioned a while ago, working on an extension that can = facilitate the establishment of MPTCP connections in a network-assisted = fashion as we call it in the current Plain Transport Mode option draft = will not hinder MPTCP massive adoption but rather encourage it. >=20 > I also know there are already prototype implementations of such = extension that are currently being tested. >=20 > I therefore support the adoption of the MPTCP proxy charter item by = the mptcp WG, as this work addresses very concrete and short term use = cases that have been publicized by several operators.=20 >=20 > And I think that this WG should start working asap on the set of = deliverables mentioned by Med in his recent response to Mirja: MPTCP = extension specification, deployment scenarios and operational = considerations and DHCP/RADIUS-based provisioning means. An MPTCP extension specification is clearly in scope for MPTCP and can = be done right now without a charter change.=20 I=E2=80=99m not sure if deployment scenarios need to be documented (in = an RFC). As you said above there are already prototype and some real = deployments as well. Not sure why we need additional documentation here. Operational consideration might or might not below in the MPTCP working = group. However, there is the BANANA BoF in Seoul that will discuss = hybrid-access services (and different approach to provide this service). = Depending where this effort goes that might be a better home or some wg = in intarea. DHCP/RADIUS extension go into the DHC working group. They are charter to = specify these kind of extensions and you can start this work there = immediately. I=E2=80=99m not saying we shouldn=E2=80=99t do this work; I=E2=80=99m = just saying that MPTCP might not be the right group for all parts of = this work. This is my recommendation as transport AD but I=E2=80=99m = sure a rechartering discussion in the IESG would provide similar = feedback. Mirja >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Christian. >=20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de = mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 20 octobre 2016 08:15 > =C3=80 : Yoshifumi Nishida; Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be > Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >=20 > Hi Yoshi,=20 >=20 > The discussion I had with many operators is that they would like to = see both TCP and UDP addressed with the ** same solution**. This is why = we came up with the proposal to leverage MPTCP for other protocols (UDP, = mainly). >=20 > So, what I would ideally like to see in the mptcp WG proposed charter = is (with "X" being MPTCP): >=20 >> 1: Protocol X proxy: >> It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . >> =46rom one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end = speaks=20 >> protocol X. >=20 > And >=20 >> 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway >> Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into=20 >> protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. >=20 > I know Olivier/Stefano have a better name to denote both these cases.=20= >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp] Envoy=C3=A9 :=20= >> mercredi 19 octobre 2016 22:57 =C3=80 : = Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be Cc=20 >> : Mirja K=C3=BChlewind; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; = multipathtcp@ietf.org=20 >> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Olivier Bonaventure=20 >> wrote: >>> Mirja, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> there are two cases to distinguish here: >>>>=20 >>>> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP=20 >>>> connection >> and >>>> open a new MPTCP connection >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there are >> various >>> implementations that are available or are being developped. Several=20= >>> deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of = services. >> It >>> would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after having=20 >>> spent >> years >>> to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. >>=20 >> I also think we should not ignore the use case. >> But, I am somehow thinking that we might want to clarify the=20 >> terminologies a bit more so that we can have more clear focus. >>=20 >> I might be wrong, but these words give me the following impressions. >>=20 >> 1: Protocol X proxy: >> It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . >> =46rom one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end = speaks=20 >> protocol X. >>=20 >> 2: Tunneling over protocol X >> Protocol X carries other protocol Y packets (by using >> encapsulation) All info in protocol Y (headers, etc) will be=20 >> preserved. >>=20 >> 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway >> Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into=20 >> protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. >> Some info in the original protocol might be lost due to the=20 >> conversion. >>=20 >> If I follow these impressions, it seems that some proposals are close=20= >> to 3. (again, I might be wrong) I might want to check if we want to=20= >> clarify this point in the charter or leave it ambiguous. >> I am just wondering if we might need to clarify the terminology or=20 >> adding some texts to avoid miscommunications. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> -- >> Yoshi > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Tue Oct 25 07:09:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35BB129570 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:09:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vSKkFPGkONQg for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-aub41.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82A9D129563 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7186F601D1; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:09:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.31]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7AE3F4004C; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:09:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8c90:f4e9:be28:2a1%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:09:42 +0200 From: To: =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= , JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN Thread-Topic: RADIUS/DHCP (was RE: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item) Thread-Index: AdIuyWy9wsRHJ/mzRoyPzh+lAYKIgA== Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:09:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: [multipathtcp] RADIUS/DHCP (was RE: potential MPTCP proxy charter item) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:09:51 -0000 SGkgTWlyamEsIA0KDQpZb3Ugc2FpZDoNCg0KPiBESENQL1JBRElVUyBleHRlbnNpb24gZ28gaW50 byB0aGUgREhDIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAuIFRoZXkgYXJlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgdG8NCj4gc3BlY2lmeSB0 aGVzZSBraW5kIG9mIGV4dGVuc2lvbnMgYW5kIHlvdSBjYW4gc3RhcnQgdGhpcyB3b3JrIHRoZXJl DQo+IGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5Lg0KDQpCdXQsIEknbSBhZnJhaWQgdGhpcyBtYXkgbm90IGJlIHRoYXQg YWNjdXJhdGUuIA0KDQpESEMgY2hhcnRlciBzYXlzIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZzoN Cg0KIkRlZmluaXRpb25zIG9mIG5ldyBESENQIG9wdGlvbnMgdGhhdCBhcmUgZGVsaXZlcmVkIHVz aW5nIHN0YW5kYXJkDQptZWNoYW5pc21zIHdpdGggZG9jdW1lbnRlZCBzZW1hbnRpY3MgYXJlIG5v dCBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGEgcHJvdG9jb2wNCmV4dGVuc2lvbiBhbmQgdGh1cyBhcmUgb3V0c2lkZSBv ZiBzY29wZSBmb3IgdGhlIERIQyBXRy4gU3VjaCBvcHRpb25zDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIF5eXl5eXl5eXl5eXg0Kc2hvdWxk IGJlIGRlZmluZWQgd2l0aGluIHRoZWlyIHJlc3BlY3RpdmUgV0dzIGFuZCByZXZpZXdlZCBieSBE 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(193.113.197.160) by EVMED04-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:12:28 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) by E07HT02-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.197.160) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.342.0; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:12:30 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:12:30 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:12:30 +0100 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCttfyggACVTQCAAdRHAIAAFN6AgACb3ACAAAnwAIAINA6AgAFX9TA= Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 08:12:30 +0000 Message-ID: <73a1c0dd64a843a5baa645d960c82886@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <22907_1476946228_58086934_22907_5464_1_a7bca8d2-7656-4ff0-9f01-cf307f017148@OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <57543A7A-1542-4C60-A5D3-E1658354BE5A@tik.ee.ethz.ch> In-Reply-To: <57543A7A-1542-4C60-A5D3-E1658354BE5A@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.202.233] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 08:12:37 -0000 SGksDQpJIHJlbWVtYmVyIGluIEJlcmxpbiBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGFib3V0IGEgbmV3IC9tZXJnZWQg dmVyc2lvbiBvZiBNZWQgYW5kIE9saXZpZXIncyBkcmFmdHMgLSB3aXRoIGEgbmljZSBkZXNjcmlw dGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgcHJvdG9jb2wgbW9kZWwgdG8gbWFrZSBpdCBlYXNpZXIgdG8gdW5kZXJzdGFu ZCAoYm90aCB0aGUgaGlnaC1sZXZlbCBhcHByb2FjaCwgYW5kIHRoZSBhc3N1bXB0aW9ucyAtIGVz cGVjaWFsbHkgYXMgdGhlc2UgYXJlIGRpZmZlcmVudCB0byB0aG9zZSBvZiBSRkM2ODI0KS4gSSB0 aGluayB0aGlzIHdvdWxkIG1ha2UgaXQgZWFzaWVyIHRvIHdyaXRlIHRleHQgZm9yIGEgbmV3IGNo YXJ0ZXIgaXRlbS4gKGF0IGxlYXN0IG15IGF0dGVtcHQgdG8gd3JpdGUgYSBuZXcgY2hhcnRlciBp dGVtIGEgd2hpbGUgYmFjayB3YXMgaW5hY2N1cmF0ZSAvaW5hZGVxdWF0ZSkuICBJcyB0aGlzIHBv c3NpYmxlIHBsZWFzZT8NCkkgYWdyZWUgd2Ugd2FudCB0aGlzIHdvcmsgdG8gaGFwcGVuIC0gaXQn 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ZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4NCj4gVGhhbmsgeW91Lg0KPiANCj4g X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gbXVsdGlw YXRodGNwIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBtdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3ANCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcCBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCm11bHRpcGF0aHRjcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3ANCg== From nobody Wed Oct 26 04:19:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAF0129A91 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:19:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id amg8B51MJp7L for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3C79129A99 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F881D9315; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:19:35 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id chCshoxT235b; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:19:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.103.143] (nb-10510.ethz.ch [82.130.103.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA8B2D930D; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:19:34 +0200 (MEST) To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= Message-ID: <9fe25f09-da5a-7111-4d43-319344cb7cb7@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:19:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] RADIUS/DHCP (was RE: potential MPTCP proxy charter item) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 11:19:40 -0000 Hi Med, sorry you are right about the DHC charter. I didn't check closely enough what you are proposing. I guess radext is a different case and I would need to check with the responsible AD (Kathleen in this case). However, I would actually like to postpone any decision till after the banana bof. While your dhcp/radius options/attributes are specific to MPTCP use only, I could also imagine and extension that could be used for different bonding proxies with e.g. a flag indicating that MPTCP is supported. Maybe contact the banana bof chairs. I know they've looking for someone to presentation the mptcp approach. Mirja On 25.10.2016 16:09, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Mirja, > > You said: > >> DHCP/RADIUS extension go into the DHC working group. They are charter to >> specify these kind of extensions and you can start this work there >> immediately. > > But, I'm afraid this may not be that accurate. > > DHC charter says explicitly the following: > > "Definitions of new DHCP options that are delivered using standard > mechanisms with documented semantics are not considered a protocol > extension and thus are outside of scope for the DHC WG. Such options > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > should be defined within their respective WGs and reviewed by DHCP > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > experts in the Internet Area Directorate. However, if such options > require protocol extensions or new semantics, the protocol extension > work must be done in the DHC WG." > > FWIW, dhc WG provided useful comments for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-dhc-05. > > While for RADIUS, I already presented there twice (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-radius-02). The radext community provided useful comments, but when I asked for adoption it is not clear how to proceed because MPTCP is not on their radar. > > Your guidance on how to advance those specifications is appreciated. > > Thank you. > > Cheers, > Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de >> Mirja Kühlewind >> Envoyé : mardi 25 octobre 2016 14:07 >> À : JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN >> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org >> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >> >> Hi all, hi Christian, >> >> see below. >> >>> Am 20.10.2016 um 08:50 schrieb christian.jacquenet@orange.com: >>> >>> WG, >>> >>> Let me second Med's recent replies to Yoshi, Mirja and Alan. >>> >>> I too believe the mptcp WG is the right placeholder to work on an MPTCP >> extension that can accommodate use cases which are currently being >> investigated, marketed and - yes - deployed (for some of them, with their >> procession of already-documented drawbacks (TCP-only communications) and >> flaws, like QoS-affecting signaling delays) by some operators. >>> >>> These use cases mainly fall under the so-called hybrid access service >> offering umbrella, so that end-users can take advantage of various access >> network technologies for the sake of optimized resource usage, among other >> incentives. >> >> I agree that these use case are interesting and work is needed here. See >> further below. >> >>> >>> I also believe MPTCP is the right solution to address such use cases. >> >> As I mention previously there are two very different deployment scenarios: >> a connection-terminating MPTCP proxy or a MPTCP tunnel solution. In >> general using TCP as a tunneling technology is challenging and has a >> broader scope than just MPTCP. >> >> >>> As I already mentioned a while ago, working on an extension that can >> facilitate the establishment of MPTCP connections in a network-assisted >> fashion as we call it in the current Plain Transport Mode option draft >> will not hinder MPTCP massive adoption but rather encourage it. >>> >>> I also know there are already prototype implementations of such >> extension that are currently being tested. >>> >>> I therefore support the adoption of the MPTCP proxy charter item by the >> mptcp WG, as this work addresses very concrete and short term use cases >> that have been publicized by several operators. >>> >>> And I think that this WG should start working asap on the set of >> deliverables mentioned by Med in his recent response to Mirja: MPTCP >> extension specification, deployment scenarios and operational >> considerations and DHCP/RADIUS-based provisioning means. >> >> An MPTCP extension specification is clearly in scope for MPTCP and can be >> done right now without a charter change. >> >> I’m not sure if deployment scenarios need to be documented (in an RFC). As >> you said above there are already prototype and some real deployments as >> well. Not sure why we need additional documentation here. >> >> Operational consideration might or might not below in the MPTCP working >> group. However, there is the BANANA BoF in Seoul that will discuss hybrid- >> access services (and different approach to provide this service). >> Depending where this effort goes that might be a better home or some wg in >> intarea. >> >> DHCP/RADIUS extension go into the DHC working group. They are charter to >> specify these kind of extensions and you can start this work there >> immediately. >> >> I’m not saying we shouldn’t do this work; I’m just saying that MPTCP might >> not be the right group for all parts of this work. This is my >> recommendation as transport AD but I’m sure a rechartering discussion in >> the IESG would provide similar feedback. >> >> Mirja >> >> >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Christian. >>> >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de >> mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >>> Envoyé : jeudi 20 octobre 2016 08:15 >>> À : Yoshifumi Nishida; Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be >>> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>> >>> Hi Yoshi, >>> >>> The discussion I had with many operators is that they would like to see >> both TCP and UDP addressed with the ** same solution**. This is why we >> came up with the proposal to leverage MPTCP for other protocols (UDP, >> mainly). >>> >>> So, what I would ideally like to see in the mptcp WG proposed charter is >> (with "X" being MPTCP): >>> >>>> 1: Protocol X proxy: >>>> It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . >>>> From one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end speaks >>>> protocol X. >>> >>> And >>> >>>> 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway >>>> Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into >>>> protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. >>> >>> I know Olivier/Stefano have a better name to denote both these cases. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp] Envoyé : >>>> mercredi 19 octobre 2016 22:57 À : Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be Cc >>>> : Mirja Kühlewind; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; multipathtcp@ietf.org >>>> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Olivier Bonaventure >>>> wrote: >>>>> Mirja, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> there are two cases to distinguish here: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP >>>>>> connection >>>> and >>>>>> open a new MPTCP connection >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there are >>>> various >>>>> implementations that are available or are being developped. Several >>>>> deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of >> services. >>>> It >>>>> would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after having >>>>> spent >>>> years >>>>> to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. >>>> >>>> I also think we should not ignore the use case. >>>> But, I am somehow thinking that we might want to clarify the >>>> terminologies a bit more so that we can have more clear focus. >>>> >>>> I might be wrong, but these words give me the following impressions. >>>> >>>> 1: Protocol X proxy: >>>> It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . >>>> From one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end speaks >>>> protocol X. >>>> >>>> 2: Tunneling over protocol X >>>> Protocol X carries other protocol Y packets (by using >>>> encapsulation) All info in protocol Y (headers, etc) will be >>>> preserved. >>>> >>>> 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway >>>> Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into >>>> protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. >>>> Some info in the original protocol might be lost due to the >>>> conversion. >>>> >>>> If I follow these impressions, it seems that some proposals are close >>>> to 3. (again, I might be wrong) I might want to check if we want to >>>> clarify this point in the charter or leave it ambiguous. >>>> I am just wondering if we might need to clarify the terminology or >>>> adding some texts to avoid miscommunications. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> Yoshi >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multipathtcp mailing list >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >>> >>> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations >> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez >> recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages >> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme >> ou falsifie. Merci. >>> >>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged >> information that may be protected by law; >>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and >> delete this message and its attachments. >>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have >> been modified, changed or falsified. >>> Thank you. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multipathtcp mailing list >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >> >> _______________________________________________ >> multipathtcp mailing list >> multipathtcp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Thu Oct 27 12:54:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1C81297AC; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:54:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.36.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <147759806575.24714.2191148935196432980.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:54:25 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: [multipathtcp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07.txt X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:54:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multipath TCP of the IETF. Title : Use Cases and Operational Experience with Multipath TCP Authors : Olivier Bonaventure Christoph Paasch Gregory Detal Filename : draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2016-10-27 Abstract: This document discusses both use cases and operational experience with Multipath TCP in real networks. It lists several prominent use cases where Multipath TCP has been considered and is being used. It also gives insight to some heuristics and decisions that have helped to realize these use cases and suggests possible improvements. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mptcp-experience/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 27 12:59:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1298512989E; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:59:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xQncz9vMnKHt; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38713129855; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbpobo.local (host-78-129-6-94.dynamic.voo.be [78.129.6.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CC8B67DD54; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:05 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 8CC8B67DD54 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1477598345; bh=GdogTDcNDsUXK1MpuewX8RcjIEkgXLv7sl+72otPEu4=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=E1bomrTIiv60jWOrSqmo//Tx4HqkO3Ur2McBTo8ulPkZadwkrQu0xqgDEQaWSt6ct HA7W7rzv67V1M0MFpRFui5vGpbVmiEa86Z+stYkXHDAjkpbKAuvoWQqYgguqFxFq0P U6Q4oM4ofZpxAQblU/nAz3tnvzvo+ZOMbosxUhVI= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99 at smtp-5 References: <147392021317.29825.3233876740262015814.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Benoit Claise , The IESG From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: <06e3cfc6-8e44-a912-2790-1d2bc538bb7b@uclouvain.be> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <147392021317.29825.3233876740262015814.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 8CC8B67DD54.A77C4 X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org, qin Wu Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:59:16 -0000 Benoit, > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: No Objection Thanks for your comments. A new version of the draft will appear soon on the IETF servers. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks for this document. > > - This document contains a couple of possible improvements. > I believe this important aspect of the draft should also be mentioned in > the abstract. Added. > - Just a thought (no need to reply): > On one side, section 3.1 speaks of "middlebox interference". > On the other side, this document via > [I-D.lhwxz-hybrid-access-network-architecture] proposes just that: a new > middlebox function. > This new middlebox might generate some interference for others. Sarcasm > warning: I guess that middleboxes are like children, we can only stand > ours. > I wanted to make that point, in light of all the middlebox discussions > these days, for example in the QUIC charter. I agree, but middleboxes could also help the deployment of MPTCP. At least this is what we observe with hybrid access networks using MPTCP to combine DSL and LTE and smartphones using MPTCP to bond WiFi and LTE. > - Another thought (again no need to reply) > "Since September > 2013, Multipath TCP is also supported on smartphones and tablets > running iOS7 [IOS7]. There are likely hundreds of millions of > Multipath TCP enabled devices. However, this particular Multipath > TCP implementation is currently only used to support a single > application. Unfortunately, there is no public information about the > lessons learned from this large scale deployment." > > Yes, this is really unfortunate. This is now fixed. A description of this deployment and some lessons learned will appear in the next issue of the IETF Journal. A reference to this forthcoming paper has been added. > > Below is Qin Wu's OPS directorate review: > I think this document is well written and ready for publication. Here are > a few editorial comments: > > 1. Section 1, paragraph 2 mentions that three implementation are > open sources. Which three of them are open sources? I think it includes > apple MP-TCP, but it is not clear in the text. This has been fixed. > 2. Section 2.2 paragraph 7 points out using REMOVE_ADDR option may > cause operational problem, but I don’t see any discussion on this in the > operation experience section, is this an open issue that needs to be > addressed in the future or other document? > This is the generic problem of the loss of REMOVE_ADDR and ADD_ADDR options. There are still discussions on this issue within the MPTCP working group. > 3. Section 3.1 talks about the v0.87 Multipath TCP implementation > What does V0.87 stands for? Version number? is there any reference to > it? This was the version used in the paper. I have removed this number. https://github.com/multipath-tcp/mptcp/releases/tag/v0.87 > 4. Section 3.2 > > s/the the default congestion control/ the default congestion control > fixed > 5. Section 3.2 last paragraph said that Reports from some users > indicate that they seem to favor OLIA. It looks this statement is > groundless statement. This comes from discussion with users but not real measurements. I have removed this sentence. > 6. Section 3.9 > > s/ returned to the DNS query/return in response to the DNS query fixed > 7. Section 3.10 said: > > “ > > A better approach would probably be to try a few attempts on > > the WiFi interface and then try to use the second interface for the > > initial subflow as well. > > ” > > When trying to use second interface for initial subflow? A few attempts > on the WIFI interface fails? fixed > 8. Section 3.2 > > s/accomodate/accommodate > > This sentence has been removed because there are still discussions on this topic in the MPTCP mailing list. Olivier From nobody Thu Oct 27 12:59:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33ADE1298AB; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:59:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Ic-5xxAXYtv; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40C2812986F; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbpobo.local (host-78-129-6-94.dynamic.voo.be [78.129.6.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7431867DF56; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 7431867DF56 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1477598347; bh=LV+NI36g8QbKyUxsFVfCdF60WqLbepWAIDdPsWvG4/4=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=WgtOrUajsAPijbv5BjJbGEZOFxi/e4LCriM7u9dwk0RubSRQoQe8u5JZw/TRMNelp rb2TI9qU3xVPYYolXR/n0bAMKY2cvc4k9R9DAzQSMF+52nu7AICFIvUQWTk9YsO9Md jarW+PWeHjwYqPdIYbm65mWOsOn2w+mK9rlZPp+M= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99 at smtp-4 References: <147390072338.29788.17044849429232369661.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ben Campbell , The IESG From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:58:58 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <147390072338.29788.17044849429232369661.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 7431867DF56.A59DA X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:59:17 -0000 Ben, Thanks for your comments. We are now able to address all of them. A revised version will be uploaded soon on the IETF servers. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I support Stephen's comment, and have a few minor comments of my own > (none of which are showstoppers): > > -1, first paragraph: I'm not sure we should describe an experimental RFC > as "standardized". > Fixed. > -1, mention of iOS7: Is this really limited to iOS7 and not future > versions? Would it make since to say that "Since September 2013...is also > supported ... iOS"? (i.e. without the version?) (Noting that iOS10 > released this week...) iOS has been using MPTCP since iOS7, the next issue of the IETF Journal will contain additional information about this large MPTCP deployment. We've added a reference to this forthcoming article in the draft. > - 2.2, paragraph 9: Figure 1 just shows a generic 2 path connection. It > doesn't seem to "summarize" the described scenario. The figure might be removed. Difficult to write a clearer figure in ASCII. > > -2.2, 2nd paragraph after figure 1: I'm pretty sure there are in fact > real applications that transfer bulk data. Do you mean to say that "Some > [or even many or most] real applications do not..." > I have updated the text. Thanks for your comments Olivier From nobody Thu Oct 27 13:07:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE7A1296F9; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1_RP1tJ4cxDS; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22d.google.com (mail-yw0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 153631297CD; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id p22so43333259ywe.0; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:06:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=grpGTbHCnF/l+NF+tBMqVrmcIhM75sKw3LSgjo7iYPg=; b=JiMxxl6vRF/sajdNtbDTaPJXpvlJWwgLzhjzIf5DZtA4MyEfK/Pv1lLbkCUICsP7JD CgqljLDOEuFB8QKcSpmoEcX2i95DGf9ve8usgeMt8GYLf1KwkVkKRdu/ZXikKlpILDrB WYEFZxTBskt82nFeRNzkDRHih5ItFbfIWlWWU3KHy6QflAqS7nh+vwhhar2o9RtKSeyg qdDii0kbIlOIn8yqC1Y0jgylhWnAIoPCZtQ1mZ/dLILIjvd9NSMqLslvVOQtq4Idberp YUKnWMUgdKn7ljrYG+SF/JvQGInhUKKnSCTn0EC4fGKkJK27lSUpw3W93GKEtxk1fA2o WiCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=grpGTbHCnF/l+NF+tBMqVrmcIhM75sKw3LSgjo7iYPg=; b=BRHpe3IzjhjHNw2mJie2j57a2IKzjgIK0TyrjL1MG+okUUT2O4R3ma4MC5kagHgO7P oYpZ4dMtUbQvZetAgdEDrVupTCD12ua/XougiQbx/VvfT9M26GrbCJU0cVljBtBGyul1 6cAMPreaOOZCSmtypujbxijrRQDvQzVJLKiElBUOdWqpnQMi3siLDS3X7I6EsYSh+HmV +BS+/4B596LdqJ7/ieJI0dyXoWSfzgGUxjH5bbS3nI/jdn8WAAPfLGCPRnxWASrL/rja hEokZ2wl0ItUj+HjuEylFOtLe4Cq/lNoDjGyV07t6fj498gNflxMo3vMn1z16QahPLb/ X8ag== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvculOE9WBGJAES+3YzMUmEG20uvcnwYjiHq/Mqmd8KA5Jy6qiVV1QCz9s/nESwePdsaN8L9N7RMncmGMw== X-Received: by 10.13.209.1 with SMTP id t1mr10064863ywd.181.1477598814308; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:06:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.36.16 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.36.16 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <147391278030.29820.10943725117210477226.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:06:53 -0500 Message-ID: To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114e5196729064053fde4899 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp , mptcp-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 20:07:00 -0000 --001a114e5196729064053fde4899 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Oliver, Thanks for considering my comments! Spencer On Oct 27, 2016 14:59, "Olivier Bonaventure" < Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote: > > Dear Spencer, > > Thanks for your comments. A revised version will be uploaded soon on the IETF servers. > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Should this text >> >> The FTP interference is expected and due to >> Application Level Gateways running home routers. >> >> be "running in home routers"? I'm not sure how to parse the sentence >> otherwise. > > > I have added a sentence to explain that the ALG changes the payload and this is detected by the DSS Checksum used by MPTCP > >> >> When reading this text >> >> This may be >> excessive in some environments, in particular when the client and/or >> the server have a large number of interfaces. >> >> I am reminded that multiple IP addresses per interface are common in IPv6 >> and dual stack deployments. That would make the situation worse, wouldn't >> it? If so, would that be worth saying? > > > I've added the following sentence : "Implementations shoud allow > to limit the number of subflows that are used." > > > Olivier --001a114e5196729064053fde4899 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Oliver,

Thanks for considering my comments!

Spencer

On Oct 27, 2016 14:59, "Olivier Bonaventure" <<= a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be">Olivier.Bonaventure@uclo= uvain.be> wrote:
>
> Dear Spencer,
>
> Thanks for your comments. A revised version will be uploaded soon on t= he IETF servers.
>
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------= ----
>> COMMENT:
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------= ----
>>
>> Should this text
>>
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0The FTP interference is expected and due to
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Application Level Gateways running home routers.
>>
>> be "running in home routers"? I'm not sure how to pa= rse the sentence
>> otherwise.
>
>
> I have added a sentence to explain that the ALG changes the payload an= d this is detected by the DSS Checksum used by MPTCP
>
>>
>> When reading this text
>>
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0This may be
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0excessive in some environments, in particular when th= e client and/or
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0the server have a large number of interfaces.
>>
>> I am reminded that multiple IP addresses per interface are common = in IPv6
>> and dual stack deployments. That would make the situation worse, w= ouldn't
>> it? If so, would that be worth saying?
>
>
> I've added the following sentence : "Implementations shoud al= low
> to limit the number of subflows that are used."
>
>
> Olivier

--001a114e5196729064053fde4899-- From nobody Thu Oct 27 13:07:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365C412953C; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gSXA9Xf96XoW; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16B91129474; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbpobo.local (host-78-129-6-94.dynamic.voo.be [78.129.6.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AB8D67DD62; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:16 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 6AB8D67DD62 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1477598356; bh=2a5tA3X07Bi5NbM60GoCuToMMdZRa7ZmCzTbv370ZuY=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=O8EevH0GEh3Kom78ZEvy7pLx6yc1BbhqKk17rA7Yv8SFCo+RHk5E5nleNwmgy1gxC y6Inny52Ew0LXIryGaF5a1OQ/qXLZeW1OAxnZCSouFYx06lUH82filhchPSkT5DcR6 9ewdbZWRQgNDppMx54nLt9ZOFQjac3zmRWp6pcK8= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99 at smtp-5 References: <147391278030.29820.10943725117210477226.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <147391278030.29820.10943725117210477226.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 6AB8D67DD62.A6B5C X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 20:07:39 -0000 Dear Spencer, Thanks for your comments. A revised version will be uploaded soon on the IETF servers. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Should this text > > The FTP interference is expected and due to > Application Level Gateways running home routers. > > be "running in home routers"? I'm not sure how to parse the sentence > otherwise. I have added a sentence to explain that the ALG changes the payload and this is detected by the DSS Checksum used by MPTCP > > When reading this text > > This may be > excessive in some environments, in particular when the client and/or > the server have a large number of interfaces. > > I am reminded that multiple IP addresses per interface are common in IPv6 > and dual stack deployments. That would make the situation worse, wouldn't > it? If so, would that be worth saying? I've added the following sentence : "Implementations shoud allow to limit the number of subflows that are used." Olivier From nobody Thu Oct 27 13:07:50 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B43101296B5; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WGjZXG7zfP66; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 169251293E9; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbpobo.local (host-78-129-6-94.dynamic.voo.be [78.129.6.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: obonaventure@smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 13D8C67DD70; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:23 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp5.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 13D8C67DD70 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1477598363; bh=M3lJynexeDrWh0sPDcPu8YlwR91FI0UAukP0gp0oDRE=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=SARNd61aOen3lVZvzY5vHwuy9HmTh2gjYYYrwTRoF9tTa5p/EEwVakuQt+buKvsAp PPPHrmLGMxWWPpK2rKU65os9II3yP2n9qTv/VnLq7B9lFv8V80F9FdyRIYCTGqBFiS J4VMfdD1yRxCN+sHF/mlmPZEINgVXP7CjIJKBit0= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99 at smtp-5 References: <147392518210.12118.15348571958407800683.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Jari Arkko , The IESG From: Olivier Bonaventure Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 21:59:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <147392518210.12118.15348571958407800683.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 13D8C67DD70.AAFB2 X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, dromasca@gmail.com, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 20:07:41 -0000 Jari, Thanks for your comments. The draft has now been updated and will be pushed on the IETF servers. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This is a great document, thank you for writing it. > > I have one small change request though (based on Dan Romascanu's Gen-ART > review): > >> Multipath TCP was standardized in [RFC6824] > > Please change this to "specified" (RFC 6824 is experimental). > This has been corrected. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I would also like to request that the authors look at Dan's other > comments: > > --- > > Summary: Ready with issues > > A very useful and well written document, which gathers implementation > and deployment experience and expands the list of the Multipath TCP > Use Cases. A few minor issues described below, if addressed, could > improve the clarity and usability of the document. > > Major issues: > > Minor issues: > > 1. The 'Introduction' section starts with the statement: > > Multipath TCP was standardized in [RFC6824] and five independent > implementations have been developed. > > Saying 'was standardized' seems misleading to me, as RFC 6824 is an > experimental RFC, so not even standards-track (this putting aside the > discussions whether RFCs are standards). Actually at no point this > document mentions that Multipath TCP is Experimental, this seems odd. fixed > 2. It would be useful to clarify the statement about the iOS > implementation of Multipath TCP in the Introduction by mentioning what > 'single application' is referred. > > However, this particular Multipath TCP implementation is currently only > used to support a single application.' This has been fixed. We also reference a forthcoming IETF journal article that explains some lessons learned from this large deployment on iOS. > 3. I am questioning whether the 'Multipath TCP proxies' section really > belongs to the use cases or rather to operational experience. After > all it's about a strategy of deployment of Multipath TCP in cases > where clients and/or servers do not support Multipath TCP but the need > exists probably because of the combination of one or several other use > cases. Both approaches are still. Given that there is ongoing work on specifying extensions to better support MPTCP proxies, we have chosen to leave the discussion in the use case section. If the work on MPTCP proxies progresses well, we could have more operation experience with these proxies that would warrant another document. > > 4. In section 3.5: > > There have been suggestions from Multipath TCP users to modify the > implementation to allow the client to use different destination ports > to reach the server. This suggestion seems mainly motivated by > traffic shaping middleboxes that are used in some wireless networks. > In networks where different shaping rates are associated to different > destination port numbers, this could allow Multipath TCP to reach a > higher performance. As of this writing, we are not aware of any > implementation of this kind of tweaking. This part has been updated because with the new socket API enables, this could be done inside an application. > > Beyond the potential problems described in the following paragraph, is > such a 'tweak' consistent with the protocol definition, or would it > need to cause changes in the protocol as defined now? A clear > recommendation seems to be needed here. There is a tussle that should be discussed in rfc6824bis. On other hand, using different destination ports for additional subflows causes a burden on the server from an implementation viewpoint. On the other hand, using different destination ports could allow an application to bypass some middleboxes that are known to interfere. > > 5. A more clear recommendation would be useful also in 3.8. It is not > clear here whether the segment size selection is a design or a tuning > issue that can/should be added to applications. > A Multipath TCP implementation should not allow an application to set different MSS sizes for different subflows. Unfortunately, this is not sufficient since in most cases the MSS that is used for a subflow is a consequence of the MSS clamping used by middleboxes on the path of this subflow. We have added the following sentences: Given the prevalence of middleboxes that clamp the MSS, Multipath TCP implementations must be able to efficiently support subflows with different MSS values. The strategy described above is a possible solution to this problem. > Nits/editorial comments: > > 1. Section 3.12 contains a timed statement 'As of September 2015 ...' > which should be updated or maybe edited to make it less > time-dependent. updated > > 2. It seems to me that [RFC6824] and [RFC6181] should be Normative > References as they describe the protocol extensions, and the initial > list of use cases which is expanded by this document. Without reading > these two documents, this one does not make too much sense. > updated Thanks for your comments Olivier From nobody Thu Oct 27 23:45:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C53A129464 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 23:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NWYCroeSrFIt for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 23:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com 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by OPEXCLILM31.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::2cc9:4bac:7b7d:229d%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:44:54 +0200 From: To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" , "mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch" , JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item Thread-Index: AQHSKLyB5UNJQfueOkOQCZciJSJaMaCttfyggACVTQCAAdRHAIAAFN6AgACb3ACAAAnwAIAINA6AgAFX9TCAAxN9cA== Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 06:44:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <22907_1476946228_58086934_22907_5464_1_a7bca8d2-7656-4ff0-9f01-cf307f017148@OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <57543A7A-1542-4C60-A5D3-E1658354BE5A@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <73a1c0dd64a843a5baa645d960c82886@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> In-Reply-To: <73a1c0dd64a843a5baa645d960c82886@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.6.17.114517 Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 06:45:02 -0000 SGkgUGhpbCwgDQoNCkkgcmVtZW1iZXIsIGFzIHdlbGwgOi0pDQoNClRoZSBkcmFmdHMgd2VyZSBj b21wbGV0ZWx5IHJld3JpdHRlbiB0byB0YWtlIGludG8gY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbnMgdGhlIGNvbW1l bnRzIGFuZCBhbHNvIHRvIGhlbHAgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXJpbmcgZWZmb3J0LiBIZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBz 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bmcgbGlzdA0KPiBtdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3ANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gbXVsdGlwYXRodGNwIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBt dWx0aXBhdGh0Y3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9tdWx0aXBhdGh0Y3ANCg== From nobody Fri Oct 28 04:37:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF75129501; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 04:37:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.331 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fIwuQaig4b3U; Fri, 28 Oct 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From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:37:03 +0200 Message-Id: <55A81E2F-B030-4039-BC6B-5C3AE932E304@piuha.net> References: <147392518210.12118.15348571958407800683.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org, multipathtcp@ietf.org, The IESG , dromasca@gmail.com Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 11:37:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_49D38970-97C2-4DFF-84CB-828A74132DD0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks =97 discuss cleared. Jari --Apple-Mail=_49D38970-97C2-4DFF-84CB-828A74132DD0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYEzhfAAoJEM80gCTQU46q5VAQAKEDNA4yRsxZDQKzMjfhm1qY /lX1ZFMbdVbeLBbAPkI77trJeFrTl/tzr3MyrevwwMHFB/stMK5D2NgUhwk65xKP 4yZuEdlSs37CbBOl9Z4OEUTagfuojqcJieCSRqLelNQ2BHDyiE8uTIpIR4ODWo3k IYld0rHy+ZJxiTfI8mzhhP3fEuhndEYatn4kLDsjWZQ0ZBZnSxqQDHfX8E9jEJS1 s4qBUV1RCpeqcUIVzdtMJ8SWWiM6BkMrnIu4/w3JeBaqRBQdu9LzstWqNnetiCoD 4vgFZuNItCeTAUcSiQJ/Kz4H8JDb9COGA1ZKmhi7AvPf2zdbJx9ZIw2y1ytkZcUW mK+vJskQyWs4lxVCmz6nwS/PM7/IuAcAS8wgoU3Le9yW/YFI551dpP4R5NVNGabz ypQeKPRrGtzbiMvIZu6fFqR+A/VQ9GRxS/H/BpYCm+3pRYlsE2IraRw24BQotT5F OKBPH0ix9SbSdgRDiOQbzf2ftrWBlyf35NeOTr5M5aXlusgT8ij1M2wYS3Pm6zdf 6pMsQ3QjVgC2xudDN0CAv79lWNorecsY3ZqyEEQo37GIHGAv+WCEqFtJ5fjaa0GJ +Yo78YKXA/IoY58y20ku0LB3u0rF/gqYr3IBrtVoAjQ5bzz1s5cvICZNupNa7VVn H/TuG3cmnhW278JI4Yud =H2Gm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_49D38970-97C2-4DFF-84CB-828A74132DD0-- From nobody Fri Oct 28 08:29:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7C4129A5E; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:29:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.331 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5amSbl96nDkQ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D92C1129606; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.21] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id u9SFT0Hx024646 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:29:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.21] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Olivier Bonaventure" Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:29:00 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <147390072338.29788.17044849429232369661.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.5r5263) Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:29:07 -0000 On 27 Oct 2016, at 14:58, Olivier Bonaventure wrote: > Ben, > > Thanks for your comments. We are now able to address all of them. > A revised version will be uploaded soon on the IETF servers. Thanks for the response, all of which seam reasonable. Thanks! Ben. From nobody Fri Oct 28 13:22:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF2C129481; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:22:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.36.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <147768612704.25003.10632486814751714234.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:22:07 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org Subject: [multipathtcp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07.txt X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 20:22:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Multipath TCP of the IETF. Title : TCP Extensions for Multipath Operation with Multiple Addresses Authors : Alan Ford Costin Raiciu Mark Handley Olivier Bonaventure Christoph Paasch Filename : draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07.txt Pages : 73 Date : 2016-10-28 Abstract: TCP/IP communication is currently restricted to a single path per connection, yet multiple paths often exist between peers. The simultaneous use of these multiple paths for a TCP/IP session would improve resource usage within the network and, thus, improve user experience through higher throughput and improved resilience to network failure. Multipath TCP provides the ability to simultaneously use multiple paths between peers. This document presents a set of extensions to traditional TCP to support multipath operation. The protocol offers the same type of service to applications as TCP (i.e., reliable bytestream), and it provides the components necessary to establish and use multiple TCP flows across potentially disjoint paths. This document specifies v1 of Multipath TCP, obsoleting v0 as specified in RFC6824 [RFC6824] through clarifications and modifications primarily driven by deployment experience. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 28 13:25:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A701294E2 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARig_WBD9JZH for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D086129485 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 140so91910188wmv.0 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:25:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=N9Xk5ivDebszsWy2ucSQnKfZg3wtRkiIY6+s0lKZZXo=; b=m/cFXD3pDRmSWqb126YqDqL7NzWWpqyFgbTG9xu7nM+2JcPHAmQxps0st6MZbfhyMx aBc8DOYWF0A4257g1jUmXwo6l3+Lm/zP8fbOVtYMeKyCs6uZOfr/RFmvgIm++BiNi/Rg iYK5RZefpoZXCSpKwnSiWfBjBrkRxMLgHVGPzEXtvFwHCEvgEJkru1sjiqaSWtYZTJLw fQWSwruYuJypWOrvAGrMOjaKmW/Ha4ysMNgjAWN9q5rohEql9HfGoafYFaYlTkACJMbv PfNI+GuXkb0VHsSwG4vaSm/m2NCOBfDi6Wo3zSKtBm9C8spSLmTdY76WIlnySXBHyeUb N4Cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=N9Xk5ivDebszsWy2ucSQnKfZg3wtRkiIY6+s0lKZZXo=; b=UcYgiNsmGyAcVp4eTPzRns27qAEtKrn85eh+n2me3fDNiitKK982fddtCEoOoz8pnx 2XxlpCuwiVa6z8KESiqtBsUFMwiWwbNgVjvbGUHBNPMHvJ+79VVUDnV8dkzYzHugbVmJ 8FuAyPFtfR+pTwfBgp9dsual+jevKGejnfkp3FrpZTHrzPTidvLwuSS2Zb/Zm6XnlCDu sZT1TIIPedSKF7FB/t6JVVVwqdolesHe+1giBECqQcYaAUCSb/QygOwZ8+baYq2yhKL+ QCVKulJ+TyWmFmnRSvGl8u+q0YSEMQhqXdb6ztlikM23gGpNugEwtDhay3Bn/fosaqPr VNwA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvciJBvgEByiEm3PLtvW2G4GzfLrIbgsSURngZHbci7ouEfjys6Y5j1b9nmJlBZj/A== X-Received: by 10.194.108.105 with SMTP id hj9mr13001052wjb.194.1477686322650; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alans-mbp.lan ([37.152.254.14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 129sm10608319wmq.9.2016.10.28.13.25.21 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alan Ford In-Reply-To: <147768612704.25003.10632486814751714234.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 21:25:21 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <27232502-18DE-4BA1-9AD3-B99F0341CB78@gmail.com> References: <147768612704.25003.10632486814751714234.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07.txt X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 20:25:26 -0000 Hi all, This small rev to rfc6824bis applies the two changes proposed by Fabien = which had support on the list: - The flag on MP_CAPABLE to say =E2=80=9Cdo not connect back to this = address=E2=80=9D (proposal 1/5) - The echo flag to make ADD_ADDR reliable (proposal 2/5) The =E2=80=9Cdo not use this address unless nothing else is available = (proposal 3/5) did not appear to have much support on the list so has = been left out for now. Proposals 4 and 5 are MIA so have not been added at this stage ;-) Cheers, Alan > On 28 Oct 2016, at 21:22, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Multipath TCP of the IETF. >=20 > Title : TCP Extensions for Multipath Operation with = Multiple Addresses > Authors : Alan Ford > Costin Raiciu > Mark Handley > Olivier Bonaventure > Christoph Paasch > Filename : draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07.txt > Pages : 73 > Date : 2016-10-28 >=20 > Abstract: > TCP/IP communication is currently restricted to a single path per > connection, yet multiple paths often exist between peers. The > simultaneous use of these multiple paths for a TCP/IP session would > improve resource usage within the network and, thus, improve user > experience through higher throughput and improved resilience to > network failure. >=20 > Multipath TCP provides the ability to simultaneously use multiple > paths between peers. This document presents a set of extensions to > traditional TCP to support multipath operation. The protocol offers > the same type of service to applications as TCP (i.e., reliable > bytestream), and it provides the components necessary to establish > and use multiple TCP flows across potentially disjoint paths. >=20 > This document specifies v1 of Multipath TCP, obsoleting v0 as > specified in RFC6824 [RFC6824] through clarifications and > modifications primarily driven by deployment experience. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mptcp-rfc6824bis-07 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Sat Oct 29 03:01:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B568129595 for ; 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Sat, 29 Oct 2016 03:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alans-mbp.lan ([37.152.254.14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g9sm18648576wjk.25.2016.10.29.03.01.47 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Oct 2016 03:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alan Ford In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 11:01:46 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <56CE164A-9A62-4B57-9CFF-33DBD45BA8B2@gmail.com> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D945B7@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <428609FE-DE79-45CD-B668-EF95F409B593@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <8bed05c5-9f6f-04aa-8aa8-690aa3ce30f4@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009D9577B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <22907_1476946228_58086934_22907_5464_1_a7bca8d2-7656-4ff0-9f01-cf307f017148@OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <57543A7A-1542-4C60-A5D3-E1658354BE5A@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <73a1c0dd64a843a5baa645d960c82886@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:01:53 -0000 Hi Med, Thank you for updating these drafts, I have been awaiting these with = great interest! Re draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-00: - The three use cases in S3 make sense - But in S4, the two deployment scenarios, focuses purely on Scenarios 1 = & 3, not 2 In S5.2.1, the usage model is that data is explicitly targeted to the = MCP. in S5.2.2, implicit, it only works for Scenario 1 of S4. By the = diagrams, it needs to now that a destination is not MPTCP capable - how = does it have this knowledge? Should it actually be intercepting the = SYN/ACK from RM and making adjustments there? This continues in the 5.2.2.1 discussion - what is the purpose of = MP_CONVERT in the implicit mode? Is it just to say =E2=80=9Cif there=E2=80= =99s an MCP on this path, I would like it=E2=80=9C? This seems different = from the use of it as described in the plain mode draft (where it = appears to be used for explicit mode by signalling the target IP = address). You talk about differentiating between =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D = and =E2=80=9Cproxied=E2=80=9D MPTCP connections, but how would the = initiator know this in implicit mode? I think this is a valuable document which explains how proxies can be = used to extend the benefits of MPTCP to connections where one or both = end hosts are not MPTCP-capable. It think this fits with the proxy = charter item today. Re draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-09 S3.1 - two issues: 1) How does the client know the server does not support MPTCP and thus = should be going through the proxy? Or does everything go through the = proxy? (This is similar to the question in implicit mode of how does the MCP = know the server does not support MPTCP?) 2) Why make MP_CONVERT appear to be be part of MPTCP, when it=E2=80=99s = not? In S4 you talk about it being included in the SYN payload - = therefore it=E2=80=99s part of the TCP payload. This is fine and aligns = with what I=E2=80=99ve been saying since IETF95 - the proposed protocol = is not MPTCP-specific, and is simply signalling the target at the start = of the TCP payload. This does not need to be a MPTCP option to make this = happen. To be clear - again - I have no issue with this work being done in MPTCP = WG, it is =E2=80=9Chow to use proxies to increase deployment of = MPTCP=E2=80=9D. But this particular document is not MPTCP-specific; = whether it is published here or elsewhere I don=E2=80=99t care, but it = really shouldn=E2=80=99t=E2=80=99 be written as if it=E2=80=99s = extending the MPTCP spec when there is no reason for it to be. Finally, you earlier mentioned the possible effect on the base spec = regarding a flag, but I see no mention of it in these docs. Regards, Alan > On 28 Oct 2016, at 07:44, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >=20 > Hi Phil,=20 >=20 > I remember, as well :-) >=20 > The drafts were completely rewritten to take into considerations the = comments and also to help the chartering effort. Here is the set of the = Network-Assisted MPTCP documents: >=20 > * An MPTCP Option for Network-Assisted MPTCP: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-09=20 > * Network-Assisted MPTCP: Use Cases, Deployment Scenarios and = Operational Considerations: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-00=20= > * DHCP Options for Network-Assisted Multipath TCP: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-dhc-06=20 > * RADIUS Extensions for Network-Assisted Multipath TCP: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-radius-03=20 >=20 > Questions, comments and suggestions are more than welcome! >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part = de >> philip.eardley@bt.com >> Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 26 octobre 2016 10:13 >> =C3=80 : mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch; JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN >> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org >> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>=20 >> Hi, >> I remember in Berlin discussion about a new /merged version of Med = and >> Olivier's drafts - with a nice description of the protocol model to = make >> it easier to understand (both the high-level approach, and the = assumptions >> - especially as these are different to those of RFC6824). I think = this >> would make it easier to write text for a new charter item. (at least = my >> attempt to write a new charter item a while back was inaccurate >> /inadequate). Is this possible please? >> I agree we want this work to happen - it's great to see MPTCP being = widely >> used and we want standardisation. >>=20 >> Best wishes >> Phil. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of >> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind >> Sent: 25 October 2016 13:07 >> To: christian.jacquenet@orange.com >> Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>=20 >> Hi all, hi Christian, >>=20 >> see below. >>=20 >>> Am 20.10.2016 um 08:50 schrieb christian.jacquenet@orange.com: >>>=20 >>> WG, >>>=20 >>> Let me second Med's recent replies to Yoshi, Mirja and Alan. >>>=20 >>> I too believe the mptcp WG is the right placeholder to work on an = MPTCP >> extension that can accommodate use cases which are currently being >> investigated, marketed and - yes - deployed (for some of them, with = their >> procession of already-documented drawbacks (TCP-only communications) = and >> flaws, like QoS-affecting signaling delays) by some operators. >>>=20 >>> These use cases mainly fall under the so-called hybrid access = service >> offering umbrella, so that end-users can take advantage of various = access >> network technologies for the sake of optimized resource usage, among = other >> incentives. >>=20 >> I agree that these use case are interesting and work is needed here. = See >> further below. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> I also believe MPTCP is the right solution to address such use = cases. >>=20 >> As I mention previously there are two very different deployment = scenarios: >> a connection-terminating MPTCP proxy or a MPTCP tunnel solution. In >> general using TCP as a tunneling technology is challenging and has a >> broader scope than just MPTCP. >>=20 >>=20 >>> As I already mentioned a while ago, working on an extension that can >> facilitate the establishment of MPTCP connections in a = network-assisted >> fashion as we call it in the current Plain Transport Mode option = draft >> will not hinder MPTCP massive adoption but rather encourage it. >>>=20 >>> I also know there are already prototype implementations of such >> extension that are currently being tested. >>>=20 >>> I therefore support the adoption of the MPTCP proxy charter item by = the >> mptcp WG, as this work addresses very concrete and short term use = cases >> that have been publicized by several operators. >>>=20 >>> And I think that this WG should start working asap on the set of >> deliverables mentioned by Med in his recent response to Mirja: MPTCP >> extension specification, deployment scenarios and operational >> considerations and DHCP/RADIUS-based provisioning means. >>=20 >> An MPTCP extension specification is clearly in scope for MPTCP and = can be >> done right now without a charter change. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m not sure if deployment scenarios need to be documented = (in an RFC). As >> you said above there are already prototype and some real deployments = as >> well. Not sure why we need additional documentation here. >>=20 >> Operational consideration might or might not below in the MPTCP = working >> group. However, there is the BANANA BoF in Seoul that will discuss = hybrid- >> access services (and different approach to provide this service). >> Depending where this effort goes that might be a better home or some = wg in >> intarea. >>=20 >> DHCP/RADIUS extension go into the DHC working group. They are charter = to >> specify these kind of extensions and you can start this work there >> immediately. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m not saying we shouldn=E2=80=99t do this work; I=E2=80=99m = just saying that MPTCP might >> not be the right group for all parts of this work. This is my >> recommendation as transport AD but I=E2=80=99m sure a rechartering = discussion in >> the IESG would provide similar feedback. >>=20 >> Mirja >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>> Christian. >>>=20 >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part = de >>> mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 20 octobre 2016 = 08:15 =C3=80 : >>> Yoshifumi Nishida; Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be Cc : >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP = proxy >>> charter item >>>=20 >>> Hi Yoshi, >>>=20 >>> The discussion I had with many operators is that they would like to = see >> both TCP and UDP addressed with the ** same solution**. This is why = we >> came up with the proposal to leverage MPTCP for other protocols (UDP, >> mainly). >>>=20 >>> So, what I would ideally like to see in the mptcp WG proposed = charter is >> (with "X" being MPTCP): >>>=20 >>>> 1: Protocol X proxy: >>>> It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . >>>> =46rom one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end = speaks >>>> protocol X. >>>=20 >>> And >>>=20 >>>> 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway >>>> Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into >>>> protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. >>>=20 >>> I know Olivier/Stefano have a better name to denote both these = cases. >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>>=20 >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp] Envoy=C3=A9 = : >>>> mercredi 19 octobre 2016 22:57 =C3=80 : = Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be >>>> Cc >>>> : Mirja K=C3=BChlewind; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; = multipathtcp@ietf.org >>>> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item >>>>=20 >>>> Hello, >>>>=20 >>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Olivier Bonaventure >>>> wrote: >>>>> Mirja, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> there are two cases to distinguish here: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> 1) you have one or two MPTCP proxies that terminate the TCP >>>>>> connection >>>> and >>>>>> open a new MPTCP connection >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> There is a very clear demand for this type of solution and there = are >>>> various >>>>> implementations that are available or are being developped. = Several >>>>> deployments exist and there is a large demand for this type of >> services. >>>> It >>>>> would be silly for the IETF to ignore this use case after having >>>>> spent >>>> years >>>>> to specify the Multipath TCP protocol. >>>>=20 >>>> I also think we should not ignore the use case. >>>> But, I am somehow thinking that we might want to clarify the >>>> terminologies a bit more so that we can have more clear focus. >>>>=20 >>>> I might be wrong, but these words give me the following = impressions. >>>>=20 >>>> 1: Protocol X proxy: >>>> It speaks protocol X on behalf of communicating endpoints . >>>> =46rom one end's point of view, it looks as if the other end = speaks >>>> protocol X. >>>>=20 >>>> 2: Tunneling over protocol X >>>> Protocol X carries other protocol Y packets (by using >>>> encapsulation) All info in protocol Y (headers, etc) will be >>>> preserved. >>>>=20 >>>> 3: Protocol X-Y / Protocol Y-X gateway >>>> Convert protocol X into protocol Y, or convert protocol Y into >>>> protocol X for protocol connectivity/compatibility, etc. >>>> Some info in the original protocol might be lost due to the >>>> conversion. >>>>=20 >>>> If I follow these impressions, it seems that some proposals are = close >>>> to 3. (again, I might be wrong) I might want to check if we want to >>>> clarify this point in the charter or leave it ambiguous. >>>> I am just wondering if we might need to clarify the terminology or >>>> adding some texts to avoid miscommunications. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> Yoshi >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multipathtcp mailing list >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >>>=20 >>> = ______________________________________________________________________ >>> ___________________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations >>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre = diffuses, >>> exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message >>> par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi = que >> les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles >> d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete >> altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>>=20 >>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >>> privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not = be >> distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender = and >> delete this message and its attachments. >>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that = have >> been modified, changed or falsified. >>> Thank you. >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> multipathtcp mailing list >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> multipathtcp mailing list >> multipathtcp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp >> _______________________________________________ >> multipathtcp mailing list >> multipathtcp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Mon Oct 31 07:46:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7784D12958B; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 06:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.36.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <147792073144.32425.17951858526576095104.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 06:32:11 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 07:46:40 -0700 Cc: draft-ietf-mptcp-experience@ietf.org, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org, multipathtcp@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net, The IESG , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [multipathtcp] Document Action: 'Use Cases and Operational Experience with Multipath TCP' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07.txt) X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 13:32:11 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Use Cases and Operational Experience with Multipath TCP' (draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Multipath TCP Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Mirja Kühlewind and Spencer Dawkins. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mptcp-experience/ Technical Summary This document discusses both use cases and operational experience with Multipath TCP in real world networks. It lists several prominent use cases for which Multipath TCP has been considered and is being used. It also gives insight to some heuristics and decisions that have helped to realize these use cases. Working Group Summary The WG consensus is good. Document Quality The document has been written by several of the people who have implemented the MPTCP protocol and who are intimately involved in its deployment. The document is very informative. Personnel The Document Shepherd is Philip Eardley. The Responsible Area Director is Mirja Kühlewind. From nobody Mon Oct 31 23:37:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0992C129507 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:37:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lZfvupCy3rMB for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF051126CD8 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-f170.google.com (mail-ua0-f170.google.com [209.85.217.170]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 080E127832D for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:37:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-ua0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 12so121992054uas.2 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:36:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvd8t1TH0SjZ7YHbyD0vZzLrSAFlh7qcDUCS1Zu7DDCdwXUnJ/IechEFRyDufmHmRqzpdeD7oHvzlEkVqg== X-Received: by 10.176.82.48 with SMTP id i45mr22307110uaa.126.1477982218543; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:36:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.84.208 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:36:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:36:58 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: multipathtcp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] agenda for mptcp meeting at IETF 97 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 06:37:04 -0000 Hello, If you're interested in presenting something in Seoul, please let chairs know. I think we still can have one or two slots for presentations. Also, if you have some topics for discussions, please share with us. Thanks, -- Yoshi & Phil On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida wrote: > Hello, > According to the preliminary agenda > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/agenda.html), we will have a 2-hour > meeting slot on ** 11/14 Monday afternoon (13:30 -15:30) **. > > If you're planning to present something, please provide us the following > info. > > 1: presenter's name > 2: title > 3: length of the presentation > > Thanks, > -- > Yoshi & Phil

On Oct 13, 2016 15:34, "Yoshifumi Nishida" <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp> wrote= :
>
> Hi Med,
>
> I think people there will think about how to utilize mptcp as a base t= echnology.=C2=A0
> If there's something affecting mptcp specs, yes, it should be done= here.