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From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" <agenda@ietf.org>
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Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net
Subject: [multipathtcp] mptcp - Requested sessions have been scheduled for IETF 98
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Dear Philip Eardley,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

mptcp Session 1 (2:00:00)
    Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1520-1720
    Room Name: Zurich C size: 100
    ---------------------------------------------
    mptcp Session 2 (1:00:00)
    Thursday, Afternoon Session III 1740-1840
    Room Name: Zurich C size: 100
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Multipath TCP
Area Name: Transport Area
Session Requester: Philip Eardley

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours, 1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 60
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: ippm tcpinc tcpm tsvarea tsvwg lmap tls
 Second Priority: taps iccrg rtcweb
 Third Priority: nfvrg quic maprg


People who must be present:
  Yoshifumi Nishida
  Philip Eardley
  Mirja Kuehlewind

Resources Requested:
  Projector in room

Special Requests:
  please avoid any transport area BoFs
---------------------------------------------------------


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:27:48 +0000
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Subject: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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Hi,

We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago - so we have some time to dedica=
te to MPTCP proxy related discussions.

We'd like to offer time for people to present their proposals. These could =
be new ideas, or relate to what has already been proposed.
In order to try and make this discussion more fruitful, please read the wor=
ds below - which frame the scope of the discussion, and suggest how to pres=
ent your idea.
Please let us know if you want time - we'll divide the available time, and =
leave plenty of time for discussion.
PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion - there may be some side meeting about ba=
nana.
PS This discussion proceeds without changing the charter. Depending on the =
idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it needs a re-charter or no=
t, and about coordinating with other WGs.

Thanks,
Best wishes,
Phil & Yoshi

----
MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in networks to bond together two =
accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific pr=
oxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first involves two proxies, on=
e in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network=
, both under the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MP=
TCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator's n=
etwork.
The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the single and dual proxy s=
cenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC6824bis, and may requir=
e a means of configuring set-up information in the proxy, which would be do=
ne in coordination with other IETF WGs such as DHC.

Note:
- Single & two ended proxy in scope
- Proxy(s) are under control of operator
- Only TCP traffic considered
- Open for solution proposals. First step is to analyse proposals and reach=
 consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a solution for each scenario
- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a different solution for 1=
 & 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for each scenario.
- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for instance, is it an exte=
nsion to the protocol, or using the existing protocol)
- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer to include the change in=
 the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
- "appropriate IETF WGs" includes any WG arising from the banana BoF
- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to exchange information b=
etween the two proxies, this presumably wouldn't be in the remit of MPTCP W=
G

We now have a 'call for solution proposals'. First step is to analyse propo=
sals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with

*                    proposal should be in the form of a "protocol model". =
See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: <<to present an architectural model f=
or how the protocol operates ...  1. What problem is the protocol trying to=
 achieve? 2.What messages are being transmitted and what do they mean? 3. W=
hat are the important, but unobvious, features of the protocol? >>

*                    if your ideas involve multiple possibilities, please e=
ither select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions

*                    The WG will consider single and dual proxy separately.=
 But we favour solutions with a lot of "re-use" between the single and dual=
 proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, implementers and deployers. W=
e also favour solutions where the single and dual proxied solutions can co-=
exist

*                    Whilst you may not be ready to present your analysis o=
f your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate email), it ma=
y be worth bearing them in mind.
----


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago &#8211; s=
o we have some time to dedicate to MPTCP proxy related discussions.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to offer time for people to present =
their proposals. These could be new ideas, or relate to what has already be=
en proposed.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to try and make this discussion more fruitf=
ul, please read the words below &#8211; which frame the scope of the discus=
sion, and suggest how to present your idea.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let us know if you want time &#8211; we&#8217=
;ll divide the available time, and leave plenty of time for discussion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion &#8211; there may =
be some side meeting about banana.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS This discussion proceeds without changing the cha=
rter. Depending on the idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it n=
eeds a re-charter or not, and about coordinating with other WGs.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil &amp; Yoshi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in network=
s to bond together two accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by usi=
ng an MPTCP-specific proxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first i=
nvolves two proxies, one in the home
 gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network, both under =
the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled s=
martphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator&#8217;s network.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the =
single and dual proxy scenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC=
6824bis, and may require a means of configuring set-up information in the p=
roxy, which would be done in coordination
 with other IETF WGs such as DHC. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Single &amp; two ended proxy in scope<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Proxy(s) are under control of operator<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Only TCP traffic considered<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Open for solution proposals. First step is to anal=
yse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a sol=
ution for each scenario<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a d=
ifferent solution for 1 &amp; 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for=
 each scenario.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for =
instance, is it an extension to the protocol, or using the existing protoco=
l)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer t=
o include the change in the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- &#8220;appropriate IETF WGs&#8221; includes any WG=
 arising from the banana BoF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to=
 exchange information between the two proxies, this presumably wouldn&#8217=
;t be in the remit of MPTCP WG<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We now have a &#8216;call for solution proposals&#82=
17;. First step is to analyse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ah=
ead with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>proposal should be in the form of a &#8220;protocol=
 model&#8221;. See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: &lt;&lt;to present an =
architectural model for how the protocol operates &#8230;&nbsp; 1. What pro=
blem is the protocol trying to achieve? 2.What messages are being
 transmitted and what do they mean? 3. What are the important, but unobviou=
s, features of the protocol? &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>if your ideas involve multiple possibilities, pleas=
e either select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>The WG will consider single and dual proxy separate=
ly. But we favour solutions with a lot of &#8220;re-use&#8221; between the =
single and dual proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, implementers a=
nd deployers. We also favour solutions where
 the single and dual proxied solutions can co-exist <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Whilst you may not be ready to present your analysi=
s of your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate email), it=
 may be worth bearing them in mind.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: MPTCP proxy work - proposed assessment Criteria - for discussion
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Subject: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - proposed assessment Criteria - for discussion
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For the MPTCP proxy work, we now have a 'call for proposals' (see email sen=
t in parallel). As part of seeing which proposal may have consensus, we wil=
l assess them against Criteria.
This list of criteria is an initial suggestion for discussion.

*             Note:  since we want RFC6824bis to be on the STDS track, we w=
ill eventually need to have prototype implementations tested in an appropri=
ate range of conditions
*             Prefer solution that doesn't require major changes to the pro=
tocol's semantics or additional functionality or security requirements (ie =
an application of RFC6824bis or a simple extension)
*             Prefer solution where the proxy is simple to operate and wher=
e the assumptions and requirements imposed on the operator's network are si=
mple to meet
*             A session can be initiated from either end (presumably this i=
s inherent for solutions to the dual proxy scenario, since it is symmetric)
*             the set-up time is minimised. Comment: arguably MPTCP is most=
 interesting for long-running flows, when the time to set up the extra subf=
low(s) is less important. But it still seems worthwhile keeping the set up =
time down - prefer solutions that have 1 round trip to those that have 10, =
but reducing the last half round trip is not critical?
*             get MPTCP's usual benefits of resource pooling and resilience
*             minimise the amount of overhead on data traffic (such as dela=
y, data overhead, potential packet fragmentation)
*             the solution needs to work if end to end encryption is in use

Criteria specific to solutions for the single-ended proxy scenario:
*             the scenario means that the proxy is unlikely to be on both d=
efault paths
*             clarify whether the proxy simply forwards packets (towards th=
e MPTCP end host) - or does it also perform packet re-ordering?
*             prefer solution that allows hosts to have TCP (& MPTCP?) traf=
fic that doesn't get proxied (creates requirements if end host can control =
whether upstream traffic (ie towards the end host) is MPTCP-proxied)
*             the end host and proxy need to authenticate each other
*             ? this scenario creates an increased threat of DoS & other at=
tacks, since the proxy hides the attacker's address?

Criteria specific to solutions for the two-ended proxy scenario:
*             the scenario means that the proxies are assumed to know how t=
o communicate directly
*             the operator can interpose the MPTCP proxies on TCP traffic w=
ithout informing the end hosts, and without them being able to request that=
 such action is, or is not, taken (?)
*             the solution explains how the address of the remote server is=
 signalled to the proxy
*             the solution can build on security configuration etc known ou=
tside of MPTCP

Best wishes,
Phil & Yoshi

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the MPTCP proxy work, we now have a &#8216;call =
for proposals&#8217; (see email sent in parallel). As part of seeing which =
proposal may have consensus, we will assess them against Criteria.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This list of criteria is an initial suggestion for d=
iscussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Note:&nbsp; since we want RFC6824bis to be on t=
he STDS track, we will eventually need to have prototype implementations te=
sted in an appropriate range of conditions<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Prefer solution that doesn&#8217;t require majo=
r changes to the protocol&#8217;s semantics or additional functionality or =
security requirements (ie an application of RFC6824bis or a simple extensio=
n)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Prefer solution where the proxy is simple to op=
erate and where the assumptions and requirements imposed on the operator&#8=
217;s network are simple to meet<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A session can be initiated from either end (pre=
sumably this is inherent for solutions to the dual proxy scenario, since it=
 is symmetric)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the set-up time is minimised. Comment: arguably=
 MPTCP is most interesting for long-running flows, when the time to set up =
the extra subflow(s) is less important. But it still seems worthwhile keepi=
ng the set up time down &#8211;
 prefer solutions that have 1 round trip to those that have 10, but reducin=
g the last half round trip is not critical?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; get MPTCP&#8217;s usual benefits of resource po=
oling and resilience<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; minimise the amount of overhead on data traffic=
 (such as delay, data overhead, potential packet fragmentation)<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the solution needs to work if end to end encryp=
tion is in use<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Criteria specific to solutions for the single-ended =
proxy scenario:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the scenario means that the proxy is unlikely t=
o be on both default paths<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; clarify whether the proxy simply forwards packe=
ts (towards the MPTCP end host) &#8211; or does it also perform packet re-o=
rdering?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; prefer solution that allows hosts to have TCP (=
&amp; MPTCP?) traffic that doesn&#8217;t get proxied (creates requirements =
if end host can control whether upstream traffic (ie towards the end host) =
is MPTCP-proxied)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the end host and proxy need to authenticate eac=
h other<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ? this scenario creates an increased threat of =
DoS &amp; other attacks, since the proxy hides the attacker&#8217;s address=
?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Criteria specific to solutions for the two-ended pro=
xy scenario:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the scenario means that the proxies are assumed=
 to know how to communicate directly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the operator can interpose the MPTCP proxies on=
 TCP traffic without informing the end hosts, and without them being able t=
o request that such action is, or is not, taken (?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the solution explains how the address of the re=
mote server is signalled to the proxy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the solution can build on security configuratio=
n etc known outside of MPTCP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil &amp; Yoshi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_ecb4ef78b9244be3964ebd6fd1348ba8rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_--


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Subject: [multipathtcp] Securing Multipath TCP : design and implementation
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Hello,

You might be interested by the following paper that will be presented at 
INFOCOM'17 :

Securing MultiPath TCP: Design & Implementation
Mathieu Jadin, Gautier Tihon, Olivier Pereira and Olivier Bonaventure 
Proc. INFOCOM'17, 2017.

Abstract

MultiPath TCP (MPTCP) is a recent TCP extension that enables hosts to 
send data over multiple paths for a single connection. It is already 
deployed for various use cases, notably on smartphones. In parallel with 
this, there is a growing deployment of encryption and authentication 
techniques to counter various forms of security attacks. Tcpcrypt and 
TLS are some of these security solutions.

In this paper, we propose MPTCPsec, a MultiPath TCP extension that 
closely integrates authentication and encryption inside the protocol 
itself. Our design relies on an adaptation for the multipath environment 
of the ENO option that is being discussed within the IETF tcpinc working 
group. We then detail how MultiPath TCP needs to be modified to 
authenticate and encrypt all data and authenticate the different TCP 
options that it uses. Finally, we implement our proposed extension in 
the reference implementation of MultiPath TCP in the Linux kernel and we 
evaluate its performance.

https://inl.info.ucl.ac.be/publications/secure-multipath-tcp-design-impementation

The kernel code developed for this paper is also available from
  https://bitbucket.org/mptcpsecteam/mptcpsec


We won't unfortunately attend the next meeting in Chicago but could 
participare remotely or be present in Prague if there is interest in the 
working group for this type of work.


Mathieu and Olivier


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Subject: [multipathtcp] some questions about the closure of MPTCP
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Hi,

     I am doing a project about MPTCP, but I have some questions about the closure of MPTCP.
     Why does the closure of subflows need FIN?  Is it necessary and compulsory?  When the sender has sent DATA_FIN to the receiver and received DATA_ACK from the receiver, doesn't the data have been transferred from the sender to the receiver completely? So, I wonder whether we can terminate all subflows by sending RST? It will be faster than the FIN, and it can free resources.
     Thank you very much!


Sincerely,
Wang Shuai



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<div>Hi,</div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I am doing a project about MPTCP, but I have some questions about the closure of MPTCP.</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Why does the closure of subflows need FIN? &nbsp;Is it necessary and compulsory? &nbsp;When the sender has sent DATA_FIN to the receiver and received DATA_ACK from the receiver, doesn't the data have been transferred from the sender to the receiver completely? So, I wonder whether we can terminate all subflows by sending RST? It will be faster than the FIN, and it can free resources.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you very much!</div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Wang Shuai</div><br><br><span></span>
------=_Part_844874_1476006843.1489395108766--


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From: Christoph Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com>
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Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] some questions about the closure of MPTCP
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Hello,

On 13/03/17 - 16:51:48, çŽ‹å¸… wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>      I am doing a project about MPTCP, but I have some questions about the closure of MPTCP.
>      Why does the closure of subflows need FIN?  Is it necessary and compulsory?  When the sender has sent DATA_FIN to the receiver and received DATA_ACK from the receiver, doesn't the data have been transferred from the sender to the receiver completely? So, I wonder whether we can terminate all subflows by sending RST? It will be faster than the FIN, and it can free resources.

in theory you are right that the FIN in this scenario is no more needed for
the correctness of the data-stream.

However, this will also mean that if the RST got lost, there is a subflow on
the peer's side that will stay there for quite some time.
And it will not allow for re-use of the 5-tuple for a later connection in
that case.

So it probably depends on what you want. A RST is quick, but FINs are more
deterministic because they are retransmitted when lost.


Christoph


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <philip.eardley@bt.com>, <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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We should also point out explicitly that the text below makes some assumpti=
ons about the scenarios of interest, the nature of the solutions and the wa=
y they're presented. Discussion is welcome, if people disagree.
To be explicit, for instance:  in the single-ended proxy case, the proxy is=
 (most likely) not on both default paths; whilst the single-ended proxy & d=
ual-ended proxy may need different solutions, we're not developing multiple=
 solutions for each case; etc.
Thanks
Phil & Yoshi
From: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of phil=
ip.eardley@bt.com
Sent: 09 March 2017 15:28
To: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas

Hi,

We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago - so we have some time to dedica=
te to MPTCP proxy related discussions.

We'd like to offer time for people to present their proposals. These could =
be new ideas, or relate to what has already been proposed.
In order to try and make this discussion more fruitful, please read the wor=
ds below - which frame the scope of the discussion, and suggest how to pres=
ent your idea.
Please let us know if you want time - we'll divide the available time, and =
leave plenty of time for discussion.
PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion - there may be some side meeting about ba=
nana.
PS This discussion proceeds without changing the charter. Depending on the =
idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it needs a re-charter or no=
t, and about coordinating with other WGs.

Thanks,
Best wishes,
Phil & Yoshi

----
MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in networks to bond together two =
accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific pr=
oxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first involves two proxies, on=
e in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network=
, both under the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MP=
TCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator's n=
etwork.
The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the single and dual proxy s=
cenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC6824bis, and may requir=
e a means of configuring set-up information in the proxy, which would be do=
ne in coordination with other IETF WGs such as DHC.

Note:
- Single & two ended proxy in scope
- Proxy(s) are under control of operator
- Only TCP traffic considered
- Open for solution proposals. First step is to analyse proposals and reach=
 consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a solution for each scenario
- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a different solution for 1=
 & 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for each scenario.
- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for instance, is it an exte=
nsion to the protocol, or using the existing protocol)
- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer to include the change in=
 the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
- "appropriate IETF WGs" includes any WG arising from the banana BoF
- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to exchange information b=
etween the two proxies, this presumably wouldn't be in the remit of MPTCP W=
G

We now have a 'call for solution proposals'. First step is to analyse propo=
sals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with

*                    proposal should be in the form of a "protocol model". =
See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: <<to present an architectural model f=
or how the protocol operates ...  1. What problem is the protocol trying to=
 achieve? 2.What messages are being transmitted and what do they mean? 3. W=
hat are the important, but unobvious, features of the protocol? >>

*                    if your ideas involve multiple possibilities, please e=
ither select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions

*                    The WG will consider single and dual proxy separately.=
 But we favour solutions with a lot of "re-use" between the single and dual=
 proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, implementers and deployers. W=
e also favour solutions where the single and dual proxied solutions can co-=
exist

*                    Whilst you may not be ready to present your analysis o=
f your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate email), it ma=
y be worth bearing them in mind.
----


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<body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We should also point out explicitly =
that the text below makes some assumptions about the scenarios of interest,=
 the nature of the solutions and the way
 they&#8217;re presented. Discussion is welcome, if people disagree. <o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">To be explicit, for instance:&nbsp; =
in the single-ended proxy case, the proxy is (most likely) not on both defa=
ult paths; whilst the single-ended proxy &amp;
 dual-ended proxy may need different solutions, we&#8217;re not developing =
multiple solutions for each case; etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Phil &amp; Yoshi<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:EN-GB">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-GB"> multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>philip.eardley@bt.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 March 2017 15:28<br>
<b>To:</b> multipathtcp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago &#8211; s=
o we have some time to dedicate to MPTCP proxy related discussions.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to offer time for people to present =
their proposals. These could be new ideas, or relate to what has already be=
en proposed.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to try and make this discussion more fruitf=
ul, please read the words below &#8211; which frame the scope of the discus=
sion, and suggest how to present your idea.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let us know if you want time &#8211; we&#8217=
;ll divide the available time, and leave plenty of time for discussion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion &#8211; there may =
be some side meeting about banana.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS This discussion proceeds without changing the cha=
rter. Depending on the idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it n=
eeds a re-charter or not, and about coordinating with other WGs.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil &amp; Yoshi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in network=
s to bond together two accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by usi=
ng an MPTCP-specific proxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first i=
nvolves two proxies, one in the home
 gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network, both under =
the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled s=
martphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator&#8217;s network.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the =
single and dual proxy scenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC=
6824bis, and may require a means of configuring set-up information in the p=
roxy, which would be done in coordination
 with other IETF WGs such as DHC. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Single &amp; two ended proxy in scope<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Proxy(s) are under control of operator<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Only TCP traffic considered<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Open for solution proposals. First step is to anal=
yse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a sol=
ution for each scenario<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a d=
ifferent solution for 1 &amp; 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for=
 each scenario.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for =
instance, is it an extension to the protocol, or using the existing protoco=
l)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer t=
o include the change in the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- &#8220;appropriate IETF WGs&#8221; includes any WG=
 arising from the banana BoF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to=
 exchange information between the two proxies, this presumably wouldn&#8217=
;t be in the remit of MPTCP WG<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We now have a &#8216;call for solution proposals&#82=
17;. First step is to analyse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ah=
ead with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>proposal should be in the form of a &#8220;protocol=
 model&#8221;. See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: &lt;&lt;to present an =
architectural model for how the protocol operates &#8230;&nbsp; 1. What pro=
blem is the protocol trying to achieve? 2.What messages are being
 transmitted and what do they mean? 3. What are the important, but unobviou=
s, features of the protocol? &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>if your ideas involve multiple possibilities, pleas=
e either select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>The WG will consider single and dual proxy separate=
ly. But we favour solutions with a lot of &#8220;re-use&#8221; between the =
single and dual proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, implementers a=
nd deployers. We also favour solutions where
 the single and dual proxied solutions can co-exist <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"=
font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Whilst you may not be ready to present your analysi=
s of your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate email), it=
 may be worth bearing them in mind.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_d1d56b0cdacd47b185ac93116c486e53rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_--


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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Replacing SHA-1 with SHA-256
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Hi all,

It=E2=80=99s been flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is being =
deprecated, we should probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in =
6824bis. Even though we use truncations of these hashes, the benefits =
gained from SHA-256 are maybe not significant, but does mean that legacy =
SHA-1 code would not be required by implementors.

Does anyone have any concerns about such a change? We do not believe it =
would be significant and could be a direct drop-in in the places where =
SHA-1 is referenced and used today.

Regards,
Alan




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--001a1140ccf2a97d27054acb6b41
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Hello,

We have uploaded the current draft agenda on the following URL.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98/agenda/mptcp

Since it's still preliminary one, please feel free to let us know if you
have some suggestions or comments.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello,</div><div><br></div><div>We have uploaded the =
current draft agenda on the following URL.</div><a href=3D"https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/meeting/98/agenda/mptcp">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/=
98/agenda/mptcp</a><br><div><br></div><div>Since it&#39;s still preliminary=
 one, please feel free to let us know if you have some suggestions or comme=
nts.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>--</div><div>Yoshi &amp; Ph=
il=C2=A0<br></div></div>

--001a1140ccf2a97d27054acb6b41--


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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Replacing SHA-1 with SHA-256
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Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE option for =
crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, instead of the =
current bit H for SHA-1)?

Thanks,
Greg

> On Mar 13, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> It=E2=80=99s been flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is being =
deprecated, we should probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in =
6824bis. Even though we use truncations of these hashes, the benefits =
gained from SHA-256 are maybe not significant, but does mean that legacy =
SHA-1 code would not be required by implementors.
>=20
> Does anyone have any concerns about such a change? We do not believe =
it would be significant and could be a direct drop-in in the places =
where SHA-1 is referenced and used today.
>=20
> Regards,
> Alan
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE =
option for crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, =
instead of the current bit H for SHA-1)?<br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: =
none;" class=3D"">Thanks,</span><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline =
!important; float: none;" class=3D"">Greg</span>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 13, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alan Ford &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" class=3D"">alan.ford@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Hi all,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">It=E2=80=99s been =
flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is being deprecated, we should =
probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in 6824bis. Even though we use =
truncations of these hashes, the benefits gained from SHA-256 are maybe =
not significant, but does mean that legacy SHA-1 code would not be =
required by implementors.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Does anyone have =
any concerns about such a change? We do not believe it would be =
significant and could be a direct drop-in in the places where SHA-1 is =
referenced and used today.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Regards,<br =
class=3D"">Alan<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

--Boundary_(ID_tn/4qd24tNPeu8w62rh/3A)--


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From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Replacing SHA-1 with SHA-256
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On 15/03/17 22:31, Greg Greenway wrote:
> Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE option for
> crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, instead of the
> current bit H for SHA-1)?


No, this idea is that SHA-256 would apply to RFC6824bis, i.e. the 
standard track version of MPTCP while SHA-1 applies to RFC6824

Olivier
>> On Mar 13, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> It’s been flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is being deprecated, we
>> should probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in 6824bis. Even
>> though we use truncations of these hashes, the benefits gained from
>> SHA-256 are maybe not significant, but does mean that legacy SHA-1
>> code would not be required by implementors.
>>
>> Does anyone have any concerns about such a change? We do not believe
>> it would be significant and could be a direct drop-in in the places
>> where SHA-1 is referenced and used today.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> multipathtcp mailing list
>> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>


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Cc: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, multipathtcp@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Replacing SHA-1 with SHA-256
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> On Mar 15, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Olivier Bonaventure =
<olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:
>=20
> On 15/03/17 22:31, Greg Greenway wrote:
>> Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE option =
for
>> crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, instead of =
the
>> current bit H for SHA-1)?
>=20
>=20
> No, this idea is that SHA-256 would apply to RFC6824bis, i.e. the =
standard track version of MPTCP while SHA-1 applies to RFC6824

Ok, but this will use MPTCP protocol version 1, whereas anything using =
SHA-1 will use protocol version 0, correct?  If that's the case, I have =
no objections.

>=20
> Olivier
>>> On Mar 13, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> It=E2=80=99s been flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is being =
deprecated, we
>>> should probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in 6824bis. Even
>>> though we use truncations of these hashes, the benefits gained from
>>> SHA-256 are maybe not significant, but does mean that legacy SHA-1
>>> code would not be required by implementors.
>>>=20
>>> Does anyone have any concerns about such a change? We do not believe
>>> it would be significant and could be a direct drop-in in the places
>>> where SHA-1 is referenced and used today.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>> Alan
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> multipathtcp mailing list
>>> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> multipathtcp mailing list
>> multipathtcp@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>>=20
>=20


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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 16:52:25 -0700
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To: Greg Greenway <ggreenway@apple.com>
Cc: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Replacing SHA-1 with SHA-256
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--001a11492f9af44c9a054acda20e
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We probably will need to discuss this in the Chicago meeting to make sure.
We also would like to see if security experts have some opinions on using
SHA-256 or have other recommendations.
--
Yoshi

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Greg Greenway <ggreenway@apple.com> wrote:

>
> > On Mar 15, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Olivier Bonaventure <olivier.bonaventure@
> uclouvain.be> wrote:
> >
> > On 15/03/17 22:31, Greg Greenway wrote:
> >> Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE option fo=
r
> >> crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, instead of the
> >> current bit H for SHA-1)?
> >
> >
> > No, this idea is that SHA-256 would apply to RFC6824bis, i.e. the
> standard track version of MPTCP while SHA-1 applies to RFC6824
>
> Ok, but this will use MPTCP protocol version 1, whereas anything using
> SHA-1 will use protocol version 0, correct?  If that's the case, I have n=
o
> objections.
>
> >
> > Olivier
> >>> On Mar 13, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> It=E2=80=99s been flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is being depre=
cated, we
> >>> should probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in 6824bis. Even
> >>> though we use truncations of these hashes, the benefits gained from
> >>> SHA-256 are maybe not significant, but does mean that legacy SHA-1
> >>> code would not be required by implementors.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone have any concerns about such a change? We do not believe
> >>> it would be significant and could be a direct drop-in in the places
> >>> where SHA-1 is referenced and used today.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> multipathtcp mailing list
> >>> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> multipathtcp mailing list
> >> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>

--001a11492f9af44c9a054acda20e
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>We probably will need to discuss this in the Chicago =
meeting to make sure.</div><div>We also would like to see if security exper=
ts have some opinions on using SHA-256 or have other recommendations.</div>=
<div>--</div><div>Yoshi</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Greg Greenway <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ggreenway@apple.com" target=3D"_blank">ggreenway@ap=
ple.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=
=3D""><br>
&gt; On Mar 15, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Olivier Bonaventure &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be">olivier.bonaventure@<wbr>uclouvain.be</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 15/03/17 22:31, Greg Greenway wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE optio=
n for<br>
&gt;&gt; crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, instead of=
 the<br>
&gt;&gt; current bit H for SHA-1)?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; No, this idea is that SHA-256 would apply to RFC6824bis, i.e. the stan=
dard track version of MPTCP while SHA-1 applies to RFC6824<br>
<br>
</span>Ok, but this will use MPTCP protocol version 1, whereas anything usi=
ng SHA-1 will use protocol version 0, correct?=C2=A0 If that&#39;s the case=
, I have no objections.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Olivier<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Mar 13, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alan Ford &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
lan.ford@gmail.com">alan.ford@gmail.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com">alan.ford@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi all,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; It=E2=80=99s been flagged up off-list that given SHA-1 is bein=
g deprecated, we<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; should probably look to replace it with SHA-256 in 6824bis. Ev=
en<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; though we use truncations of these hashes, the benefits gained=
 from<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; SHA-256 are maybe not significant, but does mean that legacy S=
HA-1<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; code would not be required by implementors.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Does anyone have any concerns about such a change? We do not b=
elieve<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; it would be significant and could be a direct drop-in in the p=
laces<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; where SHA-1 is referenced and used today.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Alan<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; multipathtcp mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org=
</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>lis=
tinfo/multipathtcp</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt; multipathtcp mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a>=
<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinf=
o/multipathtcp</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
multipathtcp mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/multipa=
thtcp</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a11492f9af44c9a054acda20e--


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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:57:53 +0000
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To: Greg Greenway <ggreenway@apple.com>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Replacing SHA-1 with SHA-256
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> On 15 Mar 2017, at 23:09, Greg Greenway <ggreenway@apple.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> On Mar 15, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Olivier Bonaventure =
<olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:
>>=20
>> On 15/03/17 22:31, Greg Greenway wrote:
>>> Would this change also set a different bit in the MP_CAPABLE option =
for
>>> crypto algorithm negotiation (eg set bit G for SHA-256, instead of =
the
>>> current bit H for SHA-1)?
>>=20
>>=20
>> No, this idea is that SHA-256 would apply to RFC6824bis, i.e. the =
standard track version of MPTCP while SHA-1 applies to RFC6824
>=20
> Ok, but this will use MPTCP protocol version 1, whereas anything using =
SHA-1 will use protocol version 0, correct?  If that's the case, I have =
no objections.

Thanks Greg, that=E2=80=99s exactly what we mean. The diff would =
literally be s/SHA-1/SHA-256/g (subject to any security area further =
recommendations).

Best regards,
Alan


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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:12:00 -0700
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Fwd: [Bloat] Paper re: latency in cellular networks
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I need more time to digest it, but this looks an interesting topic to
discuss.
--
Yoshi

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:25 AM
Subject: [Bloat] Paper re: latency in cellular networks
To: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>


A Google Alert points out this paper about latency in cellular networks:

"On Bufferbloat and Delay Analysis of MultiPath TCP in Wireless Networks"
by Yung-Chih Chen & Don Towsley of University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

https://www.scribd.com/document/341936507/14-Networking-Mptcp-Bufferbloat





_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I need more time to digest it, but this looks an inte=
resting topic to discuss.=C2=A0<br></div><div><div>--</div><div>Yoshi</div>=
<div><br><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message -----=
-----<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Rich Brown</b> <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richb.hanover@gmail.com">richb.hanover@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:25 AM<br>Subject: [Bloat] Pap=
er re: latency in cellular networks<br>To: bloat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bloa=
t@lists.bufferbloat.net">bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>&gt;<br><br><br>A G=
oogle Alert points out this paper about latency in cellular networks:<br>
<br>
&quot;On Bufferbloat and Delay Analysis of MultiPath TCP in Wireless Networ=
ks&quot; by Yung-Chih Chen &amp; Don Towsley of University of Massachusetts=
, Amherst.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.scribd.com/document/341936507/14-Networking-Mptcp-Bu=
fferbloat" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.scribd.com/<wbr=
>document/341936507/14-<wbr>Networking-Mptcp-Bufferbloat</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Bloat mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net">Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/<wbr>listinfo/bloat</a><br=
>
</div><br></div></div></div></div>

--94eb2c04f74e897df2054adeac64--


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Subject: [multipathtcp] how to deal with GRO when we use MPTCP?
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Hi,


     Some NICs has GRO(generic-receive-offload), which works by aggregating multiple incoming packets from a single stream into a larger buffer before they are passed higher up the networking stack, thus reducing the number of packets that have to be processed. But when we use MPTCP, GRO may aggregate packets whose subflow sequence number is continuous but data sequence number is discontinuous. This is not expected. How can we deal with this problem? Is it necessary to disable GRO?


Best wishes,
Wang Shuai


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<font face="Arial">Hi,</font><div><font face="Arial"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Some NICs has GRO(generic-receive-offload), which<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">&nbsp;w</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">orks by aggregating multiple incoming&nbsp;</span><font color="#000000"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_(information_technology)" class="mw-redirect" title="Packet (information technology)" style="background-image: none; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" target="_blank">packets</a>&nbsp;</font><font color="#222222">from a single&nbsp;</font><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_(computing)" title="Stream (computing)" style="color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: ini
 tial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;" target="_blank">stream</a><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">&nbsp;into a larger buffer before they are passed higher up the networking </span></font><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: sans-serif;">stack, thus reducing the number of packets that have to be processed. But when we use MPTCP, GRO may aggregate packets whose subflow sequence number is continuous but data sequence number is discontinuous. This is not expected. How can we deal with this problem? Is it necessary to disable GRO?</span></div><div><font color="#222222" face="sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#222222" face="sans-serif">Best wishes,</font></div><div><font color="#222222" face="sans-serif">Wang Shuai</font><br><br><span></span></div>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] how to deal with GRO when we use MPTCP?
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Hello,
>
>      Some NICs has GRO(generic-receive-offload), which works by
> aggregating multiple incoming packets
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_(information_technology)> from a
> single stream <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_(computing)> into a
> larger buffer before they are passed higher up the networking stack,
> thus reducing the number of packets that have to be processed. But when
> we use MPTCP, GRO may aggregate packets whose subflow sequence number is
> continuous but data sequence number is discontinuous. This is not
> expected. How can we deal with this problem? Is it necessary to disable GRO?

GRO should not aggregate packets that contain different TCP options that 
are unknown to the network interface. Our experience with GRO and 
Multipath TCP has been positive until now with the Linux MPTCP stack.

GRO is typically combined with TSO. What we usually observe is the 
following behaviour :

Sender creates a large packet with DSN, Timestamp, data
TSO splits the packet with each packet containing a copy of the DSN and 
the Timestamp. All DSNs are the same in the packets sent by the network 
interface.

On the receiver side, GRO sees a sequence of packets with the same DSN 
and Timestamp options. These packets are combined together to present a 
large packet containing DSN, Timestamp, data to the stack

GRO should not coalesce packets from an MPTCP sender that does not use 
TSO and thus send packets with different DSN values. If you see a 
network interface that behaves badly, please report this on the 
mptcp-dev mailing list


Olivier


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Subject: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Hello,

I am trying to understand on-path proxy scenarios.
(BTW, I'm referring draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-01
and draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10)

In case of on-path proxy (implicit mode),the dest of the primary subflow
will be the receiver. It's not very clear to me how MCP intercepts the
packets in this subflow.
The MCP splits the connection between two nodes and send forged packets to
the sender?

Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be
on-path?

Thanks,
--
Yoshi

--001a11492f9a293749054b4e0a57
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div><br><div>I am trying to understand on-path prox=
y scenarios.</div><div>(BTW, I&#39;m referring draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-c=
onsiderations-01 and=C2=A0draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10)<div><br></di=
v><div>In case of on-path proxy (implicit mode),the dest of the primary sub=
flow will be the receiver. It&#39;s not very clear to me how MCP intercepts=
 the packets in this subflow.=C2=A0</div><div>The MCP splits the connection=
 between two nodes and send forged packets to the sender?=C2=A0</div><div><=
br></div><div>Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have=
 to be on-path?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>--</div><d=
iv>Yoshi</div></div></div></div>

--001a11492f9a293749054b4e0a57--


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To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Yoshifumi,
>
> I am trying to understand on-path proxy scenarios.
> (BTW, I'm referring draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-01
> and draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10)
>
> In case of on-path proxy (implicit mode),the dest of the primary subflow
> will be the receiver. It's not very clear to me how MCP intercepts the
> packets in this subflow.


There are several techniques that can be deployed by operators to ensure 
that the transparent MCP is on-path for the initial subflow. All these 
techniques operate in the network layer or below and are thus 
transparent for TCP. Let me give an example based on source routing that 
does not match an actual deployment but would illustrate the main 
principle. With source routing, one can add inside the IP header a loose 
hop.


        +------- R4 ---- R5 --------+
C --- uMCP ---- R1 ---- R2 ------ dMCP ---- R6 --- R7 --- S

Consider a TCP connection created by client C towards server S. The uMCP 
is the first hop router for C. It intercepts the connection and 
transparently terminates it, acting as S. It then initiates a Multipath 
TCP connection towards S, acting as C. The packets for this connection 
are sent as IP packet that contain the IP address of the downstream MCP 
as a loose source routing hop. The dMCP removes the source routing 
option, transparently terminates the Multipath TCP connection and then 
initiates a connection towards S, acting as C.

Three connections exist to transfer data from C et S and vice-versa.

C<->uMCP  (source address C, destination address S)
uMCP<->dMCP (source address C, destination address S, using source 
routing to ensure that all downstream packets pass through dMCP, for 
upstream packets, source routing is usually not required because there 
is only one path to the uMCP that advertises C to R1 only )
dMCP<-> S (source address C, destination address S)

For the Multipath TCP connection between uMCP and dMCP, the second 
subflow is used without relying on source routing. The uMCP and the dMCP 
have addresses on the R4/R5 network and use the ADD_ADDR option to 
advertise those addresses and create the required subflows.

> The MCP splits the connection between two nodes and send forged packets
> to the sender?

Yes

> Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be
> on-path?

If the downstream MCP is on path, then it does not have to include any 
NAT function which is beneficial from an operational viewpoint.


Olivier


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From nobody Wed Mar 22 02:47:28 2017
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:47:18 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Hi Olivier,=20

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de
> Olivier Bonaventure
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 22 mars 2017 10:35
> =C0=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
> Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
>=20
> Yoshifumi,
> >
> > I am trying to understand on-path proxy scenarios.
> > (BTW, I'm referring draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-01
> > and draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10)
> >
> > In case of on-path proxy (implicit mode),the dest of the primary subflo=
w
> > will be the receiver. It's not very clear to me how MCP intercepts the
> > packets in this subflow.
>=20
>=20
> There are several techniques that can be deployed by operators to ensure
> that the transparent MCP is on-path for the initial subflow. All these
> techniques operate in the network layer or below and are thus
> transparent for TCP. Let me give an example based on source routing that
> does not match an actual deployment but would illustrate the main
> principle. With source routing, one can add inside the IP header a loose
> hop.
>=20
>=20
>         +------- R4 ---- R5 --------+
> C --- uMCP ---- R1 ---- R2 ------ dMCP ---- R6 --- R7 --- S
>=20
> Consider a TCP connection created by client C towards server S. The uMCP
> is the first hop router for C. It intercepts the connection and
> transparently terminates it, acting as S. It then initiates a Multipath
> TCP connection towards S, acting as C. The packets for this connection
> are sent as IP packet that contain the IP address of the downstream MCP
> as a loose source routing hop. The dMCP removes the source routing
> option, transparently terminates the Multipath TCP connection and then
> initiates a connection towards S, acting as C.
>=20
> Three connections exist to transfer data from C et S and vice-versa.
>=20
> C<->uMCP  (source address C, destination address S)
> uMCP<->dMCP (source address C, destination address S, using source
> routing to ensure that all downstream packets pass through dMCP, for
> upstream packets, source routing is usually not required because there
> is only one path to the uMCP that advertises C to R1 only )
> dMCP<-> S (source address C, destination address S)
>=20
> For the Multipath TCP connection between uMCP and dMCP, the second
> subflow is used without relying on source routing. The uMCP and the dMCP
> have addresses on the R4/R5 network and use the ADD_ADDR option to
> advertise those addresses and create the required subflows.
>=20
> > The MCP splits the connection between two nodes and send forged packets
> > to the sender?
>=20
> Yes
>=20
> > Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be
> > on-path?
>=20
> If the downstream MCP is on path, then it does not have to include any
> NAT function which is beneficial from an operational viewpoint.
>=20
>=20

[Med] Perhaps I misunderstood your point but DNAT/SNAT are still needed for=
 subsequent subflows even for the implicit case. Think about subflows that =
are placed with a destination address set to the one of the MCP and with a =
distinct source IP address than the one used to place the initial subflow.


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From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Med,


>         +------- R4 ---- R5 --------+
> C --- uMCP ---- R1 ---- R2 ------ dMCP ---- R6 --- R7 --- S



>>> Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be
>>> on-path?
>>
>> If the downstream MCP is on path, then it does not have to include any
>> NAT function which is beneficial from an operational viewpoint.
>>
>>
>
> [Med] Perhaps I misunderstood your point but DNAT/SNAT are still needed for subsequent subflows even for the implicit case. Think about subflows that are placed with a destination address set to the one of the MCP and with a distinct source IP address than the one used to place the initial subflow.

By no NAT, I mean that all the packets between the client and the server 
that the operator would observe on the R1-R2 path or the R6-R7 path have 
C/S as source/destination addresses. This means that the existing 
techniques that are used for logging, traffic control or monitoring that 
depends on addresses can be reused without any modification.

When the uMCP creates a subflow towards the dMCP, it uses other 
addresses than C and S, but these addresses are invisible to both the 
client and the final server.

Olivier


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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Re-,

Thank you for the clarification.

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: Olivier Bonaventure [mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 22 mars 2017 11:13
> =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
> Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
>=20
> Med,
>=20
>=20
> >         +------- R4 ---- R5 --------+
> > C --- uMCP ---- R1 ---- R2 ------ dMCP ---- R6 --- R7 --- S
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >>> Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be
> >>> on-path?
> >>
> >> If the downstream MCP is on path, then it does not have to include any
> >> NAT function which is beneficial from an operational viewpoint.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > [Med] Perhaps I misunderstood your point but DNAT/SNAT are still needed
> for subsequent subflows even for the implicit case. Think about subflows
> that are placed with a destination address set to the one of the MCP and
> with a distinct source IP address than the one used to place the initial
> subflow.
>=20
> By no NAT, I mean that all the packets between the client and the server
> that the operator would observe on the R1-R2 path or the R6-R7 path have

[Med] For the R6-R7 leg, this is valid for all MCP deployments with source =
address/prefix preservation.=20

> C/S as source/destination addresses. This means that the existing
> techniques that are used for logging, traffic control or monitoring that
> depends on addresses can be reused without any modification.

[Med] Agree, if these functions are located in the R1-R2 leg. Some adjustme=
nts may be needed (Legal Intercept, for example), but that is out of scope.=
=20

>=20
> When the uMCP creates a subflow towards the dMCP, it uses other
> addresses than C and S, but these addresses are invisible to both the
> client and the final server.

[Med] Yes, this is the SNAT/DNAT I mentioned.

>=20
> Olivier


From nobody Wed Mar 22 08:42:56 2017
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] how to deal with GRO when we use MPTCP?
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FYI - we had experience with GRO on Linux where it acted against spec,
coalescing packets with EDO headers even when these options were
different between adjacent packets. We also saw performance plummet when
GRO was enabled even when it was not supposed to coalesce packets.

See Sec 5.2 of the following:

H. Trieu, J. Touch, T. Faber, =93Implementation of the TCP Extended Data
Offset Option <http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/isi-tr-2015-696.pdf>,=94
USC/ISI Tech. Report ISI-TR-696, Mar. 2015.

Note that we were unable to pinpoint the issue, which might have been in
our implementation.

Joe


On 3/22/2017 1:54 AM, Olivier Bonaventure wrote:
> ...
>
> GRO should not coalesce packets from an MPTCP sender that does not use
> TSO and thus send packets with different DSN values. If you see a
> network interface that behaves badly, please report this on the
> mptcp-dev mailing list
>
>
> Olivier
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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<html>
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    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
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  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>FYI - we had experience with GRO on Linux where it acted against
      spec, coalescing packets with EDO headers even when these options
      were different between adjacent packets. We also saw performance
      plummet when GRO was enabled even when it was not supposed to
      coalesce packets.<br>
    </p>
    <p>See Sec 5.2 of the following:</p>
    <p>H. Trieu, J. Touch, T. Faber, “<a
        href="http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/isi-tr-2015-696.pdf"
        style="">Implementation of the TCP Extended Data Offset Option</a>,”
      USC/ISI Tech. Report ISI-TR-696, Mar. 2015.</p>
    <p>Note that we were unable to pinpoint the issue, which might have
      been in our implementation. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Joe<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/22/2017 1:54 AM, Olivier
      Bonaventure wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:d81b7cf0-67ff-9a2b-31ee-63c44fbe7643@uclouvain.be"
      type="cite">...<br>
      <br>
      GRO should not coalesce packets from an MPTCP sender that does not
      use TSO and thus send packets with different DSN values. If you
      see a network interface that behaves badly, please report this on
      the mptcp-dev mailing list
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Olivier
      <br>
      <br>
      _______________________________________________
      <br>
      multipathtcp mailing list
      <br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a>
      <br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp</a>
      <br>
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    <br>
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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Hi Med, Olivier,

Thanks for the response. I think I got basic idea.  Now I have other
questions..
I feel on-path mode a bit more complex than off-path mode.

1:  I am thinking that when uMCP intercept the packet from C, we can send
MP_Convert Information Element to dMCP.
    (and dest will be dMCP instead of S)
    We don't need to use source routing and spoofing techniques on dMCP in
this approach, which looks simpler to me.

2: I am wondering how a sender will use MP_PREFER_SIGNAL.
    In my understanding, the possible use cases would be:
         a) A sender knows the receiver doesn't support MPTCP, but it still
wants to utilize MPTCP in some portions of path.
             In this case, it seems to me that we presume the existence of
MCP.
             If so, why we cannot use explicit mode (off-path mode) here?

         b) A sender not sure if the receiver supports MPTCP or not. But,
even if the receiver doesn't support MPTCP, it wants to use MPTCP in some
portions of path at least.
            In this case, uMCP will intercept packets and split the
connection regardless of whether the receiver supports MPTCP.
            The sender cannot know if the receiver supports MPTCP or not
because MCP works transparently.
            So, it can never learn about the receiver.
            If I think this way, it seems MP_PREFER_SIGNAL is not
beneficial when the receiver supports MPTCP.

--
Yoshi



On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 3:31 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Re-,
>
> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> Please see inline.
>
> Cheers,
> Med
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Olivier Bonaventure [mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be]
> > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 22 mars 2017 11:13
> > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
> > Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
> >
> > Med,
> >
> >
> > >         +------- R4 ---- R5 --------+
> > > C --- uMCP ---- R1 ---- R2 ------ dMCP ---- R6 --- R7 --- S
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Also, in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be
> > >>> on-path?
> > >>
> > >> If the downstream MCP is on path, then it does not have to include
any
> > >> NAT function which is beneficial from an operational viewpoint.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > [Med] Perhaps I misunderstood your point but DNAT/SNAT are still
needed
> > for subsequent subflows even for the implicit case. Think about subflow=
s
> > that are placed with a destination address set to the one of the MCP an=
d
> > with a distinct source IP address than the one used to place the initia=
l
> > subflow.
> >
> > By no NAT, I mean that all the packets between the client and the serve=
r
> > that the operator would observe on the R1-R2 path or the R6-R7 path hav=
e
>
> [Med] For the R6-R7 leg, this is valid for all MCP deployments with
source address/prefix preservation.
>
> > C/S as source/destination addresses. This means that the existing
> > techniques that are used for logging, traffic control or monitoring tha=
t
> > depends on addresses can be reused without any modification.
>
> [Med] Agree, if these functions are located in the R1-R2 leg. Some
adjustments may be needed (Legal Intercept, for example), but that is out
of scope.
>
> >
> > When the uMCP creates a subflow towards the dMCP, it uses other
> > addresses than C and S, but these addresses are invisible to both the
> > client and the final server.
>
> [Med] Yes, this is the SNAT/DNAT I mentioned.
>
> >
> > Olivier
>

--001a113acbfc5d5e17054b58fbcc
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med, Olivier,<br><br>Thanks for the response. I think I=
 got basic idea.=C2=A0 Now I have other questions..=C2=A0<div>I feel on-pat=
h mode a bit more complex than off-path mode.<br><br>1: =C2=A0I am thinking=
 that when uMCP intercept the packet from C, we can send MP_Convert Informa=
tion Element to dMCP.=C2=A0<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and dest will be dMCP instea=
d of S)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We don&#39;t need to use source routing and spoofi=
ng techniques on dMCP in this approach, which looks simpler to me.<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 <br>2: I am wondering how a sender will use MP_PREFER_SIGNAL.<br=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In my understanding, the possible use cases would be:<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a) A sender knows the receiver doesn&#39;t s=
upport MPTCP, but it still wants to utilize MPTCP in some portions of path.=
 <br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, it seems=
 to me that we presume the existence of MCP.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If so, why we cannot use explicit mode (o=
ff-path mode) here?</div><div><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b) A se=
nder not sure if the receiver supports MPTCP or not. But, even if the recei=
ver doesn&#39;t support MPTCP, it wants to use MPTCP in some portions of pa=
th at least.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In this case, uMC=
P will intercept packets and split the connection=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,&quot;arial new&quot;,&quot;\00ff4d\00ff53  \00ff50  \0030b4\0=
030b7\0030c3\0030af&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">regardless of</span>=
<span style=3D"font-family:arial,&quot;arial new&quot;,&quot;\00ff4d\00ff53=
  \00ff50  \0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">=
=C2=A0</span>whether the receiver supports MPTCP.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The sender cannot know if the receiver s=
upports MPTCP or not because MCP works transparently.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 So, it can never learn about the rec=
eiver.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If I think this way, it=
 seems MP_PREFER_SIGNAL is not beneficial when the receiver supports MPTCP.=
 <br><br>--<br>Yoshi<br><br><br><br>On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 3:31 AM, &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Re-,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Thank you for the clari=
fication.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Please see inline.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Cheers,<br>&gt=
; Med<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; -----Message d&#39;origine-----<br>&gt; &gt; De =
: Olivier Bonaventure [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouva=
in.be">Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be</a>]<br>&gt; &gt; Envoy=C3=A9 : mer=
credi 22 mars 2017 11:13<br>&gt; &gt; =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Y=
oshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp<br>&gt; &gt; Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] q ab=
out on-path proxy<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Med,<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<=
br>&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +------- R4 ---- R5 --------+=
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; C --- uMCP ---- R1 ---- R2 ------ dMCP ---- R6 --- R7 --=
- S<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Also, =
in the two proxy scenario, does the downstream MCP have to be<br>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; on-path?<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If the do=
wnstream MCP is on path, then it does not have to include any<br>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt; NAT function which is beneficial from an operational viewpoint.<br=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; [Med] Perhaps I misunderstood your point but DNAT/SNAT are still needed<=
br>&gt; &gt; for subsequent subflows even for the implicit case. Think abou=
t subflows<br>&gt; &gt; that are placed with a destination address set to t=
he one of the MCP and<br>&gt; &gt; with a distinct source IP address than t=
he one used to place the initial<br>&gt; &gt; subflow.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt;=
 &gt; By no NAT, I mean that all the packets between the client and the ser=
ver<br>&gt; &gt; that the operator would observe on the R1-R2 path or the R=
6-R7 path have<br>&gt;<br>&gt; [Med] For the R6-R7 leg, this is valid for a=
ll MCP deployments with source address/prefix preservation.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=
 &gt; C/S as source/destination addresses. This means that the existing<br>=
&gt; &gt; techniques that are used for logging, traffic control or monitori=
ng that<br>&gt; &gt; depends on addresses can be reused without any modific=
ation.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; [Med] Agree, if these functions are located in the R=
1-R2 leg. Some adjustments may be needed (Legal Intercept, for example), bu=
t that is out of scope.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; When the uMCP cre=
ates a subflow towards the dMCP, it uses other<br>&gt; &gt; addresses than =
C and S, but these addresses are invisible to both the<br>&gt; &gt; client =
and the final server.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; [Med] Yes, this is the SNAT/DNAT I me=
ntioned.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Olivier<br>&gt;<br></div></div><=
/div>

--001a113acbfc5d5e17054b58fbcc--


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Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:11:20 +0100
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Yoshifumi,
>
> Thanks for the response. I think I got basic idea.  Now I have other
> questions..
> I feel on-path mode a bit more complex than off-path mode.
>
> 1:  I am thinking that when uMCP intercept the packet from C, we can
> send MP_Convert Information Element to dMCP.
>     (and dest will be dMCP instead of S)
>     We don't need to use source routing and spoofing techniques on dMCP
> in this approach, which looks simpler to me.

There are three abstract ways to ensure that the packets from the uMCP 
reach the dMCP.

- influence the control plane (e.g. routing tables by using source 
specific routing) of the network between the uMCP and the dMCP to ensure 
that the packets reach the dMCP
- change all network packets (e.g. by using source routing)
- change the destination address of all flows initiated by the client

An advantage of the fist solution is that there is no per-packet 
overhead. A disadvantage of this solution is that it can be costly in a 
large network to implement and maintain this source specific routing.

An advantage of the second solution is that the IP addresses of the 
endpoints are preserved. A drawback of this solution is that there is a 
per packet overhead.

A drawback of the latter solution is that the network operator does not 
have visibility anymore on the traffic between the uMCP and the dMCP. 
All traffic appears as TCP connections to the dMCP. An advantage of this 
solution is that its overhead is minimised since only the SYN carries an 
additional TCP option.

There is no clear winner among these solutions and we should let the 
operators select the approach that better suits their deployment and 
operational concerns.

>
> 2: I am wondering how a sender will use MP_PREFER_SIGNAL.
>     In my understanding, the possible use cases would be:
>          a) A sender knows the receiver doesn't support MPTCP, but it
> still wants to utilize MPTCP in some portions of path.
>              In this case, it seems to me that we presume the existence
> of MCP.
>              If so, why we cannot use explicit mode (off-path mode) here?
>
>          b) A sender not sure if the receiver supports MPTCP or not.
> But, even if the receiver doesn't support MPTCP, it wants to use MPTCP
> in some portions of path at least.
>             In this case, uMCP will intercept packets and split the
> connection regardless of whether the receiver supports MPTCP.
>             The sender cannot know if the receiver supports MPTCP or not
> because MCP works transparently.
>             So, it can never learn about the receiver.
>             If I think this way, it seems MP_PREFER_SIGNAL is not
> beneficial when the receiver supports MPTCP.
>

Currently, the main usage is the following in transparent mode


C --- uMCP ------ R1 ------ dMCP -------- R2 ------ S


The client wants to create a Multipath TCP connection towards S. A 
typical example is that C is an iPhone using the Siri application and S 
is Apple's server.

The uMCP and dMCP are useful when either the Client or the Server does 
not support Multipath TCP. If they both support Multipath TCP, it could 
be useful to allow the connection to pass through the uMCP and dMCP 
without terminating it. To achieve this in transparent mode, the dMCP 
must be able to distinguish between :

- a SYN containing an MP_CAPABLE option that was added by the uMCP and 
that must be terminated by the dMCP
- a SYN containing an MP_CAPABLE option that was inserted by the Client 
and should not be terminated by the dMCP

This is basically one bit of information. The MP_PREFER_PROXY option 
indicates that the MP_CAPABLE option was added by an upstream MCP and 
the connection should be terminated by a downstream MCP.

There are other use cases where the uMCP does not want the dMCP to 
terminate the Multipath TCP connections for policy reasons or because 
the uMCP knows that the server directly supports Multipath TCP.

I'm not a big fan of using an entire Multipath TCP option to carry one 
bit of information in the SYN. I would prefer to define a Proxy flag 
inside the MP_CAPABLE option as proposed several years ago on this list. 
This would be a clean solution with a very small overhead. We have spare 
bits in the MP_CAPABLE option.



Olivier





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To: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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Hello,


The standard timestamp option for TCP is defined in RFC7323. It is 
widely implemented and used. It has two main objectives :

- timing measurements
- protection agains wrapped sequence numbers


Given the importance of the second utilisation, RFC7323 has mandated the 
presence of a timestamp option in each segment once negotiated in the 
three-way handshake. For Multipath TCP, the DSN option already protects 
us from PAWS problems and it should not be mandatory to include 
timestamps in each packet sent over a Multipath TCP connection. Given 
the length of the timestamp and DSN options these two options already 
consume a large number of bytes and could limit the number of SACK 
blocks that can be placed inside acknowledgements.

I will only be able to attend the Chicago meeting remotely, but I would 
like to start a discussion on the utilisation of timestamps by Multipath 
TCP on the list. I see two possibilities, but there are possibly more :

1. Ask for a revision of RFC7323 that allows timestamp options to be 
optional in packets of Multipath TCP connections

2. Define a new Multipath TCP option to carry timestamps. The 
utilisation of this option would be included in Multipath TCP and thus 
no option besides MP_CAPABLE would need to be included in the SYN.

Do you have any opinion on these two possibilities ?


Thanks



Olivier


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/omPuxUGnXDkaqM9vLaRONSPWKKE>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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Hi Phil, Yoshi

I could cover for the session a new scenario related with the application o=
f MPTCP proxy to mobile backhaul / aggregation scenarios. Unfortunately the=
re is not a supporting document for this yet, but I could through a descrip=
tive scenario during the session by now, looking for a way for documenting =
it (if it is interesting for the people) afterwards.

>From the solution space perspective I foresee this scenario being solved by=
 network-assisted MPTCP.

My only constraint would be that I most probably should leave the session a=
t 18:00 (or even a bit before).

Bets regards

Luis

__________________________________
Luis M. Contreras

Technology and Planning
Transport, IP and Interconnection Networks
Telef=F3nica I+D / Global CTO unit / Telef=F3nica

Distrito Telef=F3nica, Edificio Sur 3, Planta 3
28050 Madrid
Espa=F1a / Spain

Skype (Lync): +34 91 312 9084
Mobile: +34 680 947 650
luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com<mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmuril=
lo@telefonica.com>


De: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de philip=
.eardley@bt.com
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de marzo de 2017 16:28
Para: multipathtcp@ietf.org
Asunto: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas

Hi,

We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago - so we have some time to dedica=
te to MPTCP proxy related discussions.

We'd like to offer time for people to present their proposals. These could =
be new ideas, or relate to what has already been proposed.
In order to try and make this discussion more fruitful, please read the wor=
ds below - which frame the scope of the discussion, and suggest how to pres=
ent your idea.
Please let us know if you want time - we'll divide the available time, and =
leave plenty of time for discussion.
PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion - there may be some side meeting about ba=
nana.
PS This discussion proceeds without changing the charter. Depending on the =
idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it needs a re-charter or no=
t, and about coordinating with other WGs.

Thanks,
Best wishes,
Phil & Yoshi

----
MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in networks to bond together two =
accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific pr=
oxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first involves two proxies, on=
e in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network=
, both under the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MP=
TCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator's n=
etwork.
The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the single and dual proxy s=
cenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC6824bis, and may requir=
e a means of configuring set-up information in the proxy, which would be do=
ne in coordination with other IETF WGs such as DHC.

Note:
- Single & two ended proxy in scope
- Proxy(s) are under control of operator
- Only TCP traffic considered
- Open for solution proposals. First step is to analyse proposals and reach=
 consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a solution for each scenario
- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a different solution for 1=
 & 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for each scenario.
- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for instance, is it an exte=
nsion to the protocol, or using the existing protocol)
- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer to include the change in=
 the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
- "appropriate IETF WGs" includes any WG arising from the banana BoF
- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to exchange information b=
etween the two proxies, this presumably wouldn't be in the remit of MPTCP W=
G

We now have a 'call for solution proposals'. First step is to analyse propo=
sals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with

*                     proposal should be in the form of a "protocol model".=
 See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: <<to present an architectural model =
for how the protocol operates ...  1. What problem is the protocol trying t=
o achieve? 2.What messages are being transmitted and what do they mean? 3. =
What are the important, but unobvious, features of the protocol? >>

*                     if your ideas involve multiple possibilities, please =
either select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions

*                     The WG will consider single and dual proxy separately=
. But we favour solutions with a lot of "re-use" between the single and dua=
l proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, implementers and deployers. =
We also favour solutions where the single and dual proxied solutions can co=
-exist

*                     Whilst you may not be ready to present your analysis =
of your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate email), it m=
ay be worth bearing them in mind.
----


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Phil, Yoshi<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I could cover for the =
session a new scenario related with the application of MPTCP proxy to mobil=
e backhaul / aggregation scenarios. Unfortunately there is not a supporting=
 document for this yet, but I could
 through a descriptive scenario during the session by now, looking for a wa=
y for documenting it (if it is interesting for the people) afterwards.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">From the solution spac=
e perspective I foresee this scenario being solved by network-assisted MPTC=
P.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My only constraint wou=
ld be that I most probably should leave the session at 18:00 (or even a bit=
 before).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Bets regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Luis<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">__________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luis M. Contreras<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:4.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Technology and Planning<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Transport, IP and Interconnection Networks<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Telef=F3nica I&#43;D / Global CTO unit / Telef=F3nic=
a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:4.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Distrito Telef=F3nica, Edificio Su=
r 3, Planta 3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">28050 Madrid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Espa=F1a / Spain<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"font-size:4.0pt"><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Skype (Lync): &#43;34 91 312 9084<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mobile: &#43;34 680 947 650<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefo=
nica.com"><span style=3D"color:blue">luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica=
.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ES">De:</span></b><span lang=3D"ES"=
> multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>En nombre de </b>philip.eardley@bt.com<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 9 de marzo de 2017 16:28<br>
<b>Para:</b> multipathtcp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">We have two (adjacent) sessions=
 in Chicago &#8211; so we have some time to dedicate to MPTCP proxy related=
 discussions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">We&#8217;d like to offer time f=
or people to present their proposals. These could be new ideas, or relate t=
o what has already been proposed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">In order to try and make this d=
iscussion more fruitful, please read the words below &#8211; which frame th=
e scope of the discussion, and suggest how to present your idea.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Please let us know if you want =
time &#8211; we&#8217;ll divide the available time, and leave plenty of tim=
e for discussion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">PS This is MPTCP proxy discussi=
on &#8211; there may be some side meeting about banana.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">PS This discussion proceeds wit=
hout changing the charter. Depending on the idea(s) that get consensus, the=
n we work out if it needs a re-charter or not, and about coordinating with =
other WGs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Phil &amp; Yoshi<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">MPTCP is now seeing widespread =
deployment in networks to bond together two accesses, such as fixed and mob=
ile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific proxy or proxies. There are two s=
cenarios. The first involves two proxies,
 one in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the netw=
ork, both under the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an=
 MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator&=
#8217;s network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">The WG will analyse proposed so=
lutions for both the single and dual proxy scenarios. The solution(s) may r=
equire changes to RFC6824bis, and may require a means of configuring set-up=
 information in the proxy, which would
 be done in coordination with other IETF WGs such as DHC. <o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Note:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- Single &amp; two ended proxy =
in scope<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- Proxy(s) are under control of=
 operator<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- Only TCP traffic considered<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- Open for solution proposals. =
First step is to analyse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ahead w=
ith, or perhaps a solution for each scenario<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- Hopefully just one solution, =
but possibly need a different solution for 1 &amp; 2 ended scenarios. Not m=
ultiple solutions for each scenario.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- May (but may not) require cha=
nges to rfc6284 (for instance, is it an extension to the protocol, or using=
 the existing protocol)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- If it does require a change t=
o 6824, then prefer to include the change in the bis, in order have one ver=
sion of the protocol.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- &#8220;appropriate IETF WGs&#=
8221; includes any WG arising from the banana BoF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">- if the solution(s) require a =
non-MPTCP protocol to exchange information between the two proxies, this pr=
esumably wouldn&#8217;t be in the remit of MPTCP WG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">We now have a &#8216;call for s=
olution proposals&#8217;. First step is to analyse proposals and reach cons=
ensus on one we go ahead with<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">proposal should be in t=
he form of a &#8220;protocol model&#8221;. See RFC4101, Writing protocol mo=
dels: &lt;&lt;to present an architectural model for how the protocol operat=
es &#8230;&nbsp; 1. What problem is the protocol trying to achieve?
 2.What messages are being transmitted and what do they mean? 3. What are t=
he important, but unobvious, features of the protocol? &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">if your ideas involve m=
ultiple possibilities, please either select your favourite, or report them =
as separate solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">The WG will consider si=
ngle and dual proxy separately. But we favour solutions with a lot of &#822=
0;re-use&#8221; between the single and dual proxy. This is in terms of effo=
rt by the WG, implementers and deployers. We also
 favour solutions where the single and dual proxied solutions can co-exist =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Whilst you may not be r=
eady to present your analysis of your proposal against the (proposed) Crite=
ria (See separate email), it may be worth bearing them in mind.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_AM3PR06MB13798DFA9A6A53A760E64ABF9E3F0AM3PR06MB1379eurp_--


From nobody Thu Mar 23 15:37:57 2017
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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 15:37:43 -0700
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To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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--001a11492f9a8b38e9054b6d86be
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Hello Olivier, Med,

Thanks for providing detailed responses. I feel that things now got clearer
than before.
In my understanding, the benefits for on-path mode is MCP can stop
intercepting and splitting connection once it learns that both endpoints
support MPTCP.  if there're other benefits, please point out.

One thing which is not very clear to me yet is MP_PREFER_PROXY.
Med explained that there is a way to learn the endpoints support MPTCP. I
think MCPs can learn it through the method described in Figure 15, however
I'm not sure how the sender can learn it.

This makes me wonder why the sender needs to set MP_PREFER_PROXY.
Instead, I am thinking that using a certain option or flag that indicates
"MCP has intercepted this flow" may look more reasonable. This seems to be
more explicit signal to the downstream MCP.
Also, even when on-path MCP is not there, the sender might put
MP_PREFER_PROXY. This looks the waste of resource.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:11 AM, Olivier Bonaventure <
Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Yoshifumi,
>
>>
>> Thanks for the response. I think I got basic idea.  Now I have other
>> questions..
>> I feel on-path mode a bit more complex than off-path mode.
>>
>> 1:  I am thinking that when uMCP intercept the packet from C, we can
>> send MP_Convert Information Element to dMCP.
>>     (and dest will be dMCP instead of S)
>>     We don't need to use source routing and spoofing techniques on dMCP
>> in this approach, which looks simpler to me.
>>
>
> There are three abstract ways to ensure that the packets from the uMCP
> reach the dMCP.
>
> - influence the control plane (e.g. routing tables by using source
> specific routing) of the network between the uMCP and the dMCP to ensure
> that the packets reach the dMCP
> - change all network packets (e.g. by using source routing)
> - change the destination address of all flows initiated by the client
>
> An advantage of the fist solution is that there is no per-packet overhead.
> A disadvantage of this solution is that it can be costly in a large network
> to implement and maintain this source specific routing.
>
> An advantage of the second solution is that the IP addresses of the
> endpoints are preserved. A drawback of this solution is that there is a per
> packet overhead.
>
> A drawback of the latter solution is that the network operator does not
> have visibility anymore on the traffic between the uMCP and the dMCP. All
> traffic appears as TCP connections to the dMCP. An advantage of this
> solution is that its overhead is minimised since only the SYN carries an
> additional TCP option.
>
> There is no clear winner among these solutions and we should let the
> operators select the approach that better suits their deployment and
> operational concerns.
>
>
>> 2: I am wondering how a sender will use MP_PREFER_SIGNAL.
>>     In my understanding, the possible use cases would be:
>>          a) A sender knows the receiver doesn't support MPTCP, but it
>> still wants to utilize MPTCP in some portions of path.
>>              In this case, it seems to me that we presume the existence
>> of MCP.
>>              If so, why we cannot use explicit mode (off-path mode) here?
>>
>>          b) A sender not sure if the receiver supports MPTCP or not.
>> But, even if the receiver doesn't support MPTCP, it wants to use MPTCP
>> in some portions of path at least.
>>             In this case, uMCP will intercept packets and split the
>> connection regardless of whether the receiver supports MPTCP.
>>             The sender cannot know if the receiver supports MPTCP or not
>> because MCP works transparently.
>>             So, it can never learn about the receiver.
>>             If I think this way, it seems MP_PREFER_SIGNAL is not
>> beneficial when the receiver supports MPTCP.
>>
>>
> Currently, the main usage is the following in transparent mode
>
>
> C --- uMCP ------ R1 ------ dMCP -------- R2 ------ S
>
>
> The client wants to create a Multipath TCP connection towards S. A typical
> example is that C is an iPhone using the Siri application and S is Apple's
> server.
>
> The uMCP and dMCP are useful when either the Client or the Server does not
> support Multipath TCP. If they both support Multipath TCP, it could be
> useful to allow the connection to pass through the uMCP and dMCP without
> terminating it. To achieve this in transparent mode, the dMCP must be able
> to distinguish between :
>
> - a SYN containing an MP_CAPABLE option that was added by the uMCP and
> that must be terminated by the dMCP
> - a SYN containing an MP_CAPABLE option that was inserted by the Client
> and should not be terminated by the dMCP
>
> This is basically one bit of information. The MP_PREFER_PROXY option
> indicates that the MP_CAPABLE option was added by an upstream MCP and the
> connection should be terminated by a downstream MCP.
>
> There are other use cases where the uMCP does not want the dMCP to
> terminate the Multipath TCP connections for policy reasons or because the
> uMCP knows that the server directly supports Multipath TCP.
>
> I'm not a big fan of using an entire Multipath TCP option to carry one bit
> of information in the SYN. I would prefer to define a Proxy flag inside the
> MP_CAPABLE option as proposed several years ago on this list. This would be
> a clean solution with a very small overhead. We have spare bits in the
> MP_CAPABLE option.
>
>
>
> Olivier
>
>
>
>
>

--001a11492f9a8b38e9054b6d86be
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Olivier, Med,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for providin=
g detailed responses. I feel that things now got clearer than before.=C2=A0=
</div><div>In my understanding, the benefits for on-path mode is MCP can st=
op intercepting and splitting connection once it learns that both endpoints=
 support MPTCP. =C2=A0if there&#39;re other benefits, please point out.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>One thing which is not very clear to me yet is=
 MP_PREFER_PROXY.=C2=A0</div><div>Med explained that there is a way to lear=
n the endpoints support MPTCP. I think MCPs can learn it through the method=
 described in Figure 15, however I&#39;m not sure how the sender can learn =
it.</div><div><br></div><div>This makes me wonder why the sender needs to s=
et MP_PREFER_PROXY.=C2=A0</div><div>Instead, I am thinking that using a cer=
tain option or flag that indicates &quot;MCP has intercepted this flow&quot=
; may look more reasonable. This seems to be more explicit signal to the do=
wnstream MCP.=C2=A0</div><div>Also, even when on-path MCP is not there, the=
 sender might put MP_PREFER_PROXY. This looks the waste of resource.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>--</div><div>Yoshi</div><div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:=
11 AM, Olivier Bonaventure <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.=
Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" target=3D"_blank">Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.b=
e</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">Yoshifumi,<span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Thanks for the response. I think I got basic idea.=C2=A0 Now I have other<b=
r>
questions..<br>
I feel on-path mode a bit more complex than off-path mode.<br>
<br>
1:=C2=A0 I am thinking that when uMCP intercept the packet from C, we can<b=
r>
send MP_Convert Information Element to dMCP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and dest will be dMCP instead of S)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We don&#39;t need to use source routing and spoofing techniqu=
es on dMCP<br>
in this approach, which looks simpler to me.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
There are three abstract ways to ensure that the packets from the uMCP reac=
h the dMCP.<br>
<br>
- influence the control plane (e.g. routing tables by using source specific=
 routing) of the network between the uMCP and the dMCP to ensure that the p=
ackets reach the dMCP<br>
- change all network packets (e.g. by using source routing)<br>
- change the destination address of all flows initiated by the client<br>
<br>
An advantage of the fist solution is that there is no per-packet overhead. =
A disadvantage of this solution is that it can be costly in a large network=
 to implement and maintain this source specific routing.<br>
<br>
An advantage of the second solution is that the IP addresses of the endpoin=
ts are preserved. A drawback of this solution is that there is a per packet=
 overhead.<br>
<br>
A drawback of the latter solution is that the network operator does not hav=
e visibility anymore on the traffic between the uMCP and the dMCP. All traf=
fic appears as TCP connections to the dMCP. An advantage of this solution i=
s that its overhead is minimised since only the SYN carries an additional T=
CP option.<br>
<br>
There is no clear winner among these solutions and we should let the operat=
ors select the approach that better suits their deployment and operational =
concerns.<span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
2: I am wondering how a sender will use MP_PREFER_SIGNAL.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In my understanding, the possible use cases would be:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a) A sender knows the receiver doesn&#39;=
t support MPTCP, but it<br>
still wants to utilize MPTCP in some portions of path.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, it seems to m=
e that we presume the existence<br>
of MCP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If so, why we cannot use ex=
plicit mode (off-path mode) here?<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b) A sender not sure if the receiver supp=
orts MPTCP or not.<br>
But, even if the receiver doesn&#39;t support MPTCP, it wants to use MPTCP<=
br>
in some portions of path at least.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In this case, uMCP will intercept=
 packets and split the<br>
connection regardless of whether the receiver supports MPTCP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The sender cannot know if the rec=
eiver supports MPTCP or not<br>
because MCP works transparently.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 So, it can never learn about the =
receiver.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If I think this way, it seems MP_=
PREFER_SIGNAL is not<br>
beneficial when the receiver supports MPTCP.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Currently, the main usage is the following in transparent mode<br>
<br>
<br>
C --- uMCP ------ R1 ------ dMCP -------- R2 ------ S<br>
<br>
<br>
The client wants to create a Multipath TCP connection towards S. A typical =
example is that C is an iPhone using the Siri application and S is Apple&#3=
9;s server.<br>
<br>
The uMCP and dMCP are useful when either the Client or the Server does not =
support Multipath TCP. If they both support Multipath TCP, it could be usef=
ul to allow the connection to pass through the uMCP and dMCP without termin=
ating it. To achieve this in transparent mode, the dMCP must be able to dis=
tinguish between :<br>
<br>
- a SYN containing an MP_CAPABLE option that was added by the uMCP and that=
 must be terminated by the dMCP<br>
- a SYN containing an MP_CAPABLE option that was inserted by the Client and=
 should not be terminated by the dMCP<br>
<br>
This is basically one bit of information. The MP_PREFER_PROXY option indica=
tes that the MP_CAPABLE option was added by an upstream MCP and the connect=
ion should be terminated by a downstream MCP.<br>
<br>
There are other use cases where the uMCP does not want the dMCP to terminat=
e the Multipath TCP connections for policy reasons or because the uMCP know=
s that the server directly supports Multipath TCP.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not a big fan of using an entire Multipath TCP option to carry one =
bit of information in the SYN. I would prefer to define a Proxy flag inside=
 the MP_CAPABLE option as proposed several years ago on this list. This wou=
ld be a clean solution with a very small overhead. We have spare bits in th=
e MP_CAPABLE option.<span class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><b=
r>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a11492f9a8b38e9054b6d86be--


From nobody Thu Mar 23 16:40:49 2017
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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:40:11 +0000
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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Hi Med, all,

Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of =
weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than =
previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going =
with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.

My main concern remains the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY option.

The use case as I see it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert this =
into the flow in order to signal for the other MCP to pick up the flow =
and proxy it. But I still find myself asking why?

Why is this solution uniquely better than either:

- Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT; or
- Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway

This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for point =
1, and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what not =
to for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of policy =
would a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able to? And =
are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only way of =
achieving what you want?

Given this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the =
MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base =
protocol spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still =
puzzled as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the =
other two options.

As a side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d rather =
the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much like an =
MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.

Regards,
Alan

> On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>=20
> Dear all,=20
>=20
> A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.=20
> We had many off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the =
outcome of those discussion. The main changes are:
>=20
> * MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option =
codepoints space.
> * A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined to demux native =
connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in use.
> * MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT
> * Only TCP is covered
> * Interference with TFO are discussed=20
>=20
> Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52
>> =C3=80 : Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras; stefano.secci@lip6.fr; =
Wouter
>> Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN;
>> Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis Contreras; JACQUENET Christian
>> IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier =
Bonaventure;
>> SungHoon Seo; Stefano Secci
>> Objet : New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-
>> 10.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> A new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to =
the
>> IETF repository.
>>=20
>> Name:		draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode
>> Revision:	10
>> Title:		Extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment =
Models
>> Document date:	2017-03-09
>> Group:		Individual Submission
>> Pages:		25
>> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-
>> mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
>> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-
>> plain-mode/
>> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-
>> mode-10
>> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-
>> plain-mode-10
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>   Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server
>>   side, some service providers now consider a network-assisted model
>>   that relies upon the activation of a dedicated function called =
MPTCP
>>   Conversion Point (MCP).  Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models =
are
>>   designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment =
of
>>   multi-path communications without making any assumption about the
>>   support of MPTCP by the communicating peers.  MCPs located in the
>>   network are responsible for establishing multi-path communications =
on
>>   behalf of endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities
>>   to achieve different goals that include (but are not limited to)
>>   optimization of resource usage (e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of
>>   resiliency (e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic
>>   offload management.
>>=20
>>   This document specifies extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP
>>   deployment models.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>=20
>> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


--Apple-Mail=_38361FA2-18E3-4C7B-89F7-4B87FDD37DEA
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med, all,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a =
couple of weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow =
than previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re =
going with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">My main concern remains =
the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY option.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The use case as I see it is for the CPE =
acting as an MCP to insert this into the flow in order to signal for the =
other MCP to pick up the flow and proxy it. But I still find myself =
asking<i class=3D"">&nbsp;why?</i></div><div class=3D""><i class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></i></div><div class=3D"">Why is this solution uniquely =
better than either:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">- Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT; or</div><div =
class=3D"">- Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t =
support MPTCP anyway</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP =
address for point 1, and potential policy configuration as to what to =
proxy and what not to for point 2, but are these significant issues? =
What sort of policy would a client be able to apply which a proxy would =
not be able to? And are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit =
is the only way of achieving what you want?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Given this option is now a separate =
option and not a bit in the MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned =
about its impact on the base protocol spec, since this can be kept =
entirely separate, but I am still puzzled as to the actual real-world =
requirements of this rather than the other two options.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As a side issue, and not =
to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVE=
RT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much like an MPTCP option when it =
wasn=E2=80=99t.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Alan</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
10 Mar 2017, at 08:43, <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Dear =
all, <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of the draft is =
available online. This version integrates the comments that were raised =
on the mailing list. <br class=3D"">We had many off-line discussions =
with Alan, this version is the outcome of those discussion. The main =
changes are:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">* MP_CONVERT object does not =
consume anymore the MPTCP option codepoints space.<br class=3D"">* A new =
MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined to demux native connections vs =
proxied one when the implicit mode is in use.<br class=3D"">* MCPs are =
now able to detect if remote MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT<br =
class=3D"">* Only TCP is covered<br class=3D"">* Interference with TFO =
are discussed <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Comments, questions, and =
suggestions are always welcome.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers,<br =
class=3D"">Med<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">-----Message d'origine-----<br class=3D"">De&nbsp;: <a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>]<br =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;: vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52<br =
class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;: Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras; <a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr" =
class=3D"">stefano.secci@lip6.fr</a>; Wouter<br class=3D"">Cloetens; =
Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN;<br =
class=3D"">Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis Contreras; JACQUENET =
Christian<br class=3D"">IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; Ullrich Meyer; Denis =
Behaghel; Olivier Bonaventure;<br class=3D"">SungHoon Seo; Stefano =
Secci<br class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;: New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-<br class=3D"">10.txt<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the<br =
class=3D"">IETF repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode<br class=3D"">Revision:<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>10<br =
class=3D"">Title:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=
	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment Models<br =
class=3D"">Document date:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2017-03-09<br =
class=3D"">Group:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=
	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Individual Submission<br class=3D"">Pages:<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>25<br =
class=3D"">URL: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-</a><br =
class=3D"">mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">Status: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-</a><br =
class=3D"">plain-mode/<br class=3D"">Htmlized: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-</a><br=
 class=3D"">mode-10<br class=3D"">Diff: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-</a><=
br class=3D"">plain-mode-10<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Abstract:<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) =
support at the server<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;side, some service =
providers now consider a network-assisted model<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;that relies upon the activation of a dedicated function =
called MPTCP<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;Conversion Point (MCP). =
&nbsp;Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models are<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the =
establishment of<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;multi-path communications =
without making any assumption about the<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;support of MPTCP by the communicating peers. &nbsp;MCPs =
located in the<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;network are responsible for =
establishing multi-path communications on<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;behalf of endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP =
capabilities<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;to achieve different goals that =
include (but are not limited to)<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;optimization =
of resource usage (e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;resiliency (e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and =
traffic<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;offload management.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;This document specifies extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;deployment models.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of<br class=3D"">submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized =
version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The IETF =
Secretariat<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_38361FA2-18E3-4C7B-89F7-4B87FDD37DEA--


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Subject: [multipathtcp] when and how is data-ACK responded?
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Hi,

   Data-ACK is independent with subflow-ACK which is responded by TCP layer, but when and how is data-ACK responded? I wonder whether discontinuous segments in data-level will trigger duplicate ACK, so fast retransmission will happen.If not, how to avoid this problem?

Best,

Wang Shuai
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<P>Hi,</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp; Data-ACK is independent with subflow-ACK which is responded by TCP layer, but when and how is data-ACK responded? I wonder whether discontinuous segments in data-level will trigger duplicate ACK, so fast retransmission will happen.If not, how to avoid this problem?</P>
<P>Best,</P>
<P>Wang Shuai</P>
------=_Part_955326_738050705.1490336744520--


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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
CC: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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Hi Med,

Thanks for the reply. I remain confused however with this:

- Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
[Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.

What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on =
them?

Regards,
Alan

> On 24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> =
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 00:40
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med, all,
> =20
> Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of =
weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than =
previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going =
with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.
> =20
> My main concern remains the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY option.
> =20
> The use case as I see it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert =
this into the flow in order to signal for the other MCP to pick up the =
flow and proxy it.
> [Med] Yes.
> =20
> But I still find myself asking why?
> [Med] Fair question.
> =20
> Why is this solution uniquely better than either:
> =20
> - Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT;
> [Med] The implicit mode is something that can be easily implemented =
compared to the explicit mode even if it comes with its constraints =
(e.g., location of the MCP, ..). Our approach here is not mandate the =
deployment scheme and let operators to make their choice.
>  =20
>  or
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for =
point 1, and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what =
not to for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of =
policy would a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able =
to? And are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only =
way of achieving what you want?
> =20
> Given this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the =
MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base =
protocol spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still =
puzzled as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the =
other two options.
> =20
> As a side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d =
rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much =
like an MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Dear all,=20
>=20
> A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.=20
> We had many off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the =
outcome of those discussion. The main changes are:
>=20
> * MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option =
codepoints space.
> * A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined to demux native =
connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in use.
> * MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT
> * Only TCP is covered
> * Interference with TFO are discussed=20
>=20
> Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
>=20
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> =
[mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>]
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52
> =C3=80 : Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras; stefano.secci@lip6.fr =
<mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr>; Wouter
> Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN;
> Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis Contreras; JACQUENET Christian
> IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier =
Bonaventure;
> SungHoon Seo; Stefano Secci
> Objet : New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-
> 10.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:                       draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode
> Revision:       10
> Title:             Extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment =
Models
> Document date:        2017-03-09
> Group:                      Individual Submission
> Pages:                       25
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair- =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair->
> mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode/
> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain- =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain->
> mode-10
> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode-10
>=20
> Abstract:
>   Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server
>   side, some service providers now consider a network-assisted model
>   that relies upon the activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP
>   Conversion Point (MCP).  Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models =
are
>   designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment =
of
>   multi-path communications without making any assumption about the
>   support of MPTCP by the communicating peers.  MCPs located in the
>   network are responsible for establishing multi-path communications =
on
>   behalf of endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities
>   to achieve different goals that include (but are not limited to)
>   optimization of resource usage (e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of
>   resiliency (e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic
>   offload management.
>=20
>   This document specifies extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP
>   deployment models.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>
> =20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks for the reply. I remain confused however with =
this:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Just insert MCP =
into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources =
usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate =
these resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =
=E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there =
will be MCPs that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the =
MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts =
to bypass this MCP.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">What connections do you envisage <i =
class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on =
them?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Alan<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 24 =
Mar 2017, at 07:02, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Hi =
Alan,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Please see inline.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Med<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
00:40<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med, all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s =
taken a couple of weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer =
to follow than previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99=
re going with this now. You have two different ways of implementing =
MPTCP proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">My main concern remains the need for this =
MP_PREFER_PROXY option.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">The use case as I see =
it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert this into the flow in order =
to signal for the other MCP to pick up the flow and proxy it.<span =
style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Yes.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">But I still find =
myself asking<i class=3D"">&nbsp;why?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></i></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Fair question.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Why is this solution uniquely better than =
either:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">- Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT;<span =
style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The implicit mode is =
something that can be easily implemented compared to the explicit mode =
even if it comes with its constraints (e.g., location of the MCP, ..). =
Our approach here is not mandate the deployment scheme and let operators =
to make their choice.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;or<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">- Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t=
 support MPTCP anyway<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the =
second one is that MCP resources usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an =
operator would like to dedicate these resources to the connections it =
proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support =
MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs that will strip by default =
MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP =
connections issued from endhosts to bypass this MCP.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This would potentially require DHCP to =
deliver the MCP address for point 1, and potential policy configuration =
as to what to proxy and what not to for point 2, but are these =
significant issues? What sort of policy would a client be able to apply =
which a proxy would not be able to? And are there any scenarios why the =
MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only way of achieving what you want?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Given =
this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the MP_CAPABLE =
handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base protocol =
spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still puzzled =
as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the other =
two options.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">As a side issue, and not to derail this =
conversation, I=E2=80=99d rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99=
t look quite so much like an MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
10 Mar 2017, at 08:43,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Dear all,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">We had many =
off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the outcome of those =
discussion. The main changes are:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">* =
MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option codepoints =
space.<br class=3D"">* A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined =
to demux native connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in =
use.<br class=3D"">* MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not =
support MP_CONVERT<br class=3D"">* Only TCP is covered<br class=3D"">* =
Interference with TFO are discussed<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers,<br class=3D"">Med<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">-----Message d'origine-----<br =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>]<br =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;: vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52<br =
class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;: Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">stefano.secci@lip6.fr</a>; =
Wouter<br class=3D"">Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; =
BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN;<br class=3D"">Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; =
Luis Contreras; JACQUENET Christian<br class=3D"">IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; =
Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier Bonaventure;<br class=3D"">SungHoon=
 Seo; Stefano Secci<br class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;: New Version Notification =
for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-<br class=3D"">10.txt<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the<br =
class=3D"">IETF repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>draft-boucadair-mptcp-=
plain-mode<br class=3D"">Revision:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>10<br =
class=3D"">Title:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>Extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment Models<br class=3D"">Document =
date:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>2017-03-09<br =
class=3D"">Group:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>Individual =
Submission<br class=3D"">Pages:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>25<br =
class=3D"">URL: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-</a><br =
class=3D"">mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">Status: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-</a><br =
class=3D"">plain-mode/<br class=3D"">Htmlized: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-</a><br=
 class=3D"">mode-10<br class=3D"">Diff: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-</a><=
br class=3D"">plain-mode-10<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Abstract:<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) =
support at the server<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;side, some service =
providers now consider a network-assisted model<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;that relies upon the activation of a dedicated =
function called MPTCP<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Conversion Point (MCP). =
&nbsp;Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models are<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for =
the establishment of<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;multi-path communications =
without making any assumption about the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;support =
of MPTCP by the communicating peers. &nbsp;MCPs located in the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;network are responsible for establishing =
multi-path communications on<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;behalf of =
endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;to achieve different goals that include (but are =
not limited to)<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;optimization of resource usage =
(e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;resiliency =
(e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;offload management.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;This document specifies extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;deployment models.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of<br class=3D"">submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized =
version and diff are available at<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The IETF Secretariat<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b=
r class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_C30F60EE-FA6A-4053-865C-A39B704F3EC8--


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:29:14 +0000
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References: <CAO249ydsuoAUn0y6yo62OM8mdp_AfyS1cA+patgQ84ata5piXw@mail.gmail.com> <a5ae92e4-c0c9-96c6-a575-f23891189087@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E37584@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <ee22e83a-464e-f3a1-3d48-15043bcd6f74@uclouvain.be> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3C5EC@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CAO249yc6KkvxKG3g5NzLguZZfEfGrvG1qFfvXL0WNwzECWdrLg@mail.gmail.com> <f7ab3458-7004-dcce-5f4a-c036705d0530@uclouvain.be> <CAO249yfzT32mku_1jwH+H0jKwa+LuCLQ2RsORrrqcDMA3qNL7A@mail.gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E3FE7E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
CC: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:37:23 +0000
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>, <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas
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Luis,
Good to hear you're in Chicago.
So far we proposed solving two proxy scenarios:
<< MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in networks to bond together t=
wo accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific=
 proxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first involves two proxies,=
 one in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the netw=
ork, both under the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an=
 MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator'=
s network.
The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the single and dual proxy s=
cenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC6824bis, and may requir=
e a means of configuring set-up information in the proxy, which would be do=
ne in coordination with other IETF WGs such as DHC.
>>
If you've an additional scenario it would be good to hear about it. It woul=
d be good if you could tell us on the list, so we can discuss it before the=
 meeting. We'll allow a bit of time during the meeting for discussion about=
 the scenarios we're trying to solve, but I think this will be at the mike =
rather than presentations.
Also, there'll be some time for solution discussions (in turn for each of t=
he two scenarios - or maybe three scenarios if another one is needed!). Not=
 sure if you have a solution to propose? If you do, 1 or 2 slides is perfec=
t - please present it in the form of a "protocol model".
Thanks
phil

From: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO [mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@tel=
efonica.com]
Sent: 23 March 2017 11:44
To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>; multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas

Hi Phil, Yoshi

I could cover for the session a new scenario related with the application o=
f MPTCP proxy to mobile backhaul / aggregation scenarios. Unfortunately the=
re is not a supporting document for this yet, but I could through a descrip=
tive scenario during the session by now, looking for a way for documenting =
it (if it is interesting for the people) afterwards.

>From the solution space perspective I foresee this scenario being solved by=
 network-assisted MPTCP.

My only constraint would be that I most probably should leave the session a=
t 18:00 (or even a bit before).

Bets regards

Luis

__________________________________
Luis M. Contreras

Technology and Planning
Transport, IP and Interconnection Networks
Telef=F3nica I+D / Global CTO unit / Telef=F3nica

Distrito Telef=F3nica, Edificio Sur 3, Planta 3
28050 Madrid
Espa=F1a / Spain

Skype (Lync): +34 91 312 9084
Mobile: +34 680 947 650
luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com<mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmuril=
lo@telefonica.com>


De: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de philip=
.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de marzo de 2017 16:28
Para: multipathtcp@ietf.org<mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Asunto: [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas

Hi,

We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago - so we have some time to dedica=
te to MPTCP proxy related discussions.

We'd like to offer time for people to present their proposals. These could =
be new ideas, or relate to what has already been proposed.
In order to try and make this discussion more fruitful, please read the wor=
ds below - which frame the scope of the discussion, and suggest how to pres=
ent your idea.
Please let us know if you want time - we'll divide the available time, and =
leave plenty of time for discussion.
PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion - there may be some side meeting about ba=
nana.
PS This discussion proceeds without changing the charter. Depending on the =
idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it needs a re-charter or no=
t, and about coordinating with other WGs.

Thanks,
Best wishes,
Phil & Yoshi

----
MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in networks to bond together two =
accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific pr=
oxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first involves two proxies, on=
e in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network=
, both under the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MP=
TCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator's n=
etwork.
The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the single and dual proxy s=
cenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC6824bis, and may requir=
e a means of configuring set-up information in the proxy, which would be do=
ne in coordination with other IETF WGs such as DHC.

Note:
- Single & two ended proxy in scope
- Proxy(s) are under control of operator
- Only TCP traffic considered
- Open for solution proposals. First step is to analyse proposals and reach=
 consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a solution for each scenario
- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a different solution for 1=
 & 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for each scenario.
- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for instance, is it an exte=
nsion to the protocol, or using the existing protocol)
- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer to include the change in=
 the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
- "appropriate IETF WGs" includes any WG arising from the banana BoF
- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to exchange information b=
etween the two proxies, this presumably wouldn't be in the remit of MPTCP W=
G

We now have a 'call for solution proposals'. First step is to analyse propo=
sals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with

*                    proposal should be in the form of a "protocol model". =
See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: <<to present an architectural model f=
or how the protocol operates ...  1. What problem is the protocol trying to=
 achieve? 2.What messages are being transmitted and what do they mean? 3. W=
hat are the important, but unobvious, features of the protocol? >>

*                    if your ideas involve multiple possibilities, please e=
ither select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions

*                    The WG will consider single and dual proxy separately.=
 But we favour solutions with a lot of "re-use" between the single and dual=
 proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, implementers and deployers. W=
e also favour solutions where the single and dual proxied solutions can co-=
exist

*                    Whilst you may not be ready to present your analysis o=
f your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate email), it ma=
y be worth bearing them in mind.
----


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Luis,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Good to h=
ear you&#8217;re in Chicago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So far we=
 proposed solving two proxy scenarios:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&lt;&lt;<=
/span>
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">MPTCP is now seein=
g widespread deployment in networks to bond together two accesses, such as =
fixed and mobile broadband, by using an MPTCP-specific proxy or proxies. Th=
ere are two scenarios. The first involves
 two proxies, one in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and on=
e in the network, both under the control of the operator. The other scenari=
o involves an MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in =
the operator&#8217;s network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The WG wi=
ll analyse proposed solutions for both the single and dual proxy scenarios.=
 The solution(s) may require changes to
 RFC6824bis, and may require a means of configuring set-up information in t=
he proxy, which would be done in coordination with other IETF WGs such as D=
HC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&gt;&gt;<=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If you&#8=
217;ve an additional scenario it would be good to hear about it. It would b=
e good if you could tell us on the list, so
 we can discuss it before the meeting. We&#8217;ll allow a bit of time duri=
ng the meeting for discussion about the scenarios we&#8217;re trying to sol=
ve, but I think this will be at the mike rather than presentations.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, there&#8217;ll be =
some time for solution discussions (in turn for each of the two scenarios &=
#8211; or maybe three scenarios if another one is needed!).
 Not sure if you have a solution to propose? If you do, 1 or 2 slides is pe=
rfect &#8211; please present it
</span>in the form of a &#8220;protocol model&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">phil<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO [mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmuril=
lo@telefonica.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 March 2017 11:44<br>
<b>To:</b> Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R &lt;philip.eardley@bt.com&gt;; multipat=
htcp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Phil=
, Yoshi</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I could=
 cover for the session a new scenario related with the application of MPTCP=
 proxy to mobile backhaul / aggregation scenarios. Unfortunately there is n=
ot a supporting document for this yet,
 but I could through a descriptive scenario during the session by now, look=
ing for a way for documenting it (if it is interesting for the people) afte=
rwards.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">From th=
e solution space perspective I foresee this scenario being solved by networ=
k-assisted MPTCP.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">My only=
 constraint would be that I most probably should leave the session at 18:00=
 (or even a bit before).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Bets re=
gards</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Luis</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________=
___<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Luis M. Contreras<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:4.0pt">&nbsp=
;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Technology and Planning<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Transport, IP and Interconnecti=
on Networks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Telef=F3nica I&#43;D / Global C=
TO unit / Telef=F3nica<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:4.0pt">&nbsp=
;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Distrito Telef=F3nica, Edificio Su=
r 3, Planta 3</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">28050 Madrid</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Espa=F1a / Spain</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"font-size:4.0pt">&nbsp;</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Skype (Lync): &#43;34 91 312 9084<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Mobile: &#43;34 680 947 650<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:luismiguel.co=
ntrerasmurillo@telefonica.com"><span style=3D"color:blue">luismiguel.contre=
rasmurillo@telefonica.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ES">De:</span></b><span lang=3D"ES"=
> multipathtcp [<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:mul=
tipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>En nombre de </b><a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley=
@bt.com</a><br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 9 de marzo de 2017 16:28<br>
<b>Para:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org">multipathtcp@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> [multipathtcp] MPTCP proxy work - call for ideas</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have two (adjacent) sessions in Chicago &#8211; s=
o we have some time to dedicate to MPTCP proxy related discussions.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to offer time for people to present =
their proposals. These could be new ideas, or relate to what has already be=
en proposed.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In order to try and make this discussion more fruitf=
ul, please read the words below &#8211; which frame the scope of the discus=
sion, and suggest how to present your idea.<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let us know if you want time &#8211; we&#8217=
;ll divide the available time, and leave plenty of time for discussion.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS This is MPTCP proxy discussion &#8211; there may =
be some side meeting about banana.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS This discussion proceeds without changing the cha=
rter. Depending on the idea(s) that get consensus, then we work out if it n=
eeds a re-charter or not, and about coordinating with other WGs.<span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best wishes,<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil &amp; Yoshi<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MPTCP is now seeing widespread deployment in network=
s to bond together two accesses, such as fixed and mobile broadband, by usi=
ng an MPTCP-specific proxy or proxies. There are two scenarios. The first i=
nvolves two proxies, one in the home
 gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network, both under =
the control of the operator. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled s=
martphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator&#8217;s network.=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WG will analyse proposed solutions for both the =
single and dual proxy scenarios. The solution(s) may require changes to RFC=
6824bis, and may require a means of configuring set-up information in the p=
roxy, which would be done in coordination
 with other IETF WGs such as DHC. <span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note:<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Single &amp; two ended proxy in scope<span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Proxy(s) are under control of operator<span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Only TCP traffic considered<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Open for solution proposals. First step is to anal=
yse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ahead with, or perhaps a sol=
ution for each scenario<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Hopefully just one solution, but possibly need a d=
ifferent solution for 1 &amp; 2 ended scenarios. Not multiple solutions for=
 each scenario.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- May (but may not) require changes to rfc6284 (for =
instance, is it an extension to the protocol, or using the existing protoco=
l)<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- If it does require a change to 6824, then prefer t=
o include the change in the bis, in order have one version of the protocol.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- &#8220;appropriate IETF WGs&#8221; includes any WG=
 arising from the banana BoF<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- if the solution(s) require a non-MPTCP protocol to=
 exchange information between the two proxies, this presumably wouldn&#8217=
;t be in the remit of MPTCP WG<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We now have a &#8216;call for solution proposals&#82=
17;. First step is to analyse proposals and reach consensus on one we go ah=
ead with<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>proposal should be in the form of a &#8220;p=
rotocol model&#8221;. See RFC4101, Writing protocol models: &lt;&lt;to pres=
ent an architectural model for how the protocol operates &#8230;&nbsp; 1. W=
hat problem is the protocol trying to achieve? 2.What messages
 are being transmitted and what do they mean? 3. What are the important, bu=
t unobvious, features of the protocol? &gt;&gt;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>if your ideas involve multiple possibilities=
, please either select your favourite, or report them as separate solutions=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>The WG will consider single and dual proxy s=
eparately. But we favour solutions with a lot of &#8220;re-use&#8221; betwe=
en the single and dual proxy. This is in terms of effort by the WG, impleme=
nters and deployers. We also favour solutions
 where the single and dual proxied solutions can co-exist <span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-36.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&=
#8226;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Whilst you may not be ready to present your =
analysis of your proposal against the (proposed) Criteria (See separate ema=
il), it may be worth bearing them in mind.
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "Sargent, Matthew T. (GRC-LCA0)[Peerless Technologies]" <matthew.t.sargent@nasa.gov>
To: =?utf-8?B?546L5biF?= <13211134@bjtu.edu.cn>
CC: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] when and how is data-ACK responded?
Thread-Index: AQHSpGggFWEUs6QOSU+4npqCGpgiB6GkRgAA
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:52:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] when and how is data-ACK responded?
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <philip.eardley@bt.com>, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:11:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:07:02 -0700
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>,  "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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Hi Med,

Thanks for the response.
Just one point..

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:41 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Yoshi,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 23 mars 2017 23:38
> *=C3=80 :* Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> *Cc :* multipathtcp
> *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
>
>
>
> Hello Olivier, Med,
>
>
>
> Thanks for providing detailed responses. I feel that things now got
> clearer than before.
>
> In my understanding, the benefits for on-path mode is MCP can stop
> intercepting and splitting connection once it learns that both endpoints
> support MPTCP.  if there're other benefits, please point out.
>
>
>
> One thing which is not very clear to me yet is MP_PREFER_PROXY.
>
> Med explained that there is a way to learn the endpoints support MPTCP. I
> think MCPs can learn it through the method described in Figure 15, howeve=
r
> I'm not sure how the sender can learn it.
>
> [Med] An implementation example would look like the following :
>
> =C2=B7         A sends a SYN message with MP_CAPABLE+MP_PREFER_PROXY to B
>
> =C2=B7         This SYN is intercepted by an MCP which tracks the connect=
ion,
> that is: it removes the MP_PREFER_PROXY and add filters to intercept
> relevant incoming SYN/ACK. The SYN (MP_CAPABLE) is then forwarded to the
> next hop and so on, until it reaches B.
>
> =C2=B7         If the SYN/ACK received from B includes MP_CAPABLE, the MC=
P
> will forward it to A. A is now aware that B is MPTCP-capable and they can
> establish subsequent subflows directly. The MCP does not announce
> explicitly itself to A.
>

Hmm. I am not sure about this.
I understand A will receive MP_CAPABLE from B in this case. But, I think
even B doesn't support MPTCP, A will receive MP_CAPABLE from B which is
created by MCP (by spoofing). So, I think A cannot identify whether this is
from B or MCP.
--
Yoshi

>

--001a1146b7f04dca68054b7ddcbc
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the response.=C2=A0<=
/div><div>Just one point..</div><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:41 PM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_143099714475030426WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Yoshi,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0=
cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Yosh=
ifumi Nishida [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_=
blank">nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp</a><wbr>]
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> jeudi 23 mars 2017 23:38<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.<wbr>be</a>; BOUCADAIR Mohame=
d IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> multipathtcp<span class=3D""><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy<u></u><u></u><=
/span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Olivier, Med,<u></u><u></u></p><span class=3D"=
">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for providing detailed responses. I feel that=
 things now got clearer than before.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In my understanding, the benefits for on-path mode i=
s MCP can stop intercepting and splitting connection once it learns that bo=
th endpoints support MPTCP. =C2=A0if there&#39;re other benefits, please po=
int out.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One thing which is not very clear to me yet is MP_PR=
EFER_PROXY.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Med explained that there is a way to learn the endpo=
ints support MPTCP. I think MCPs can learn it through the method described =
in Figure 15, however I&#39;m not sure how the sender can learn it.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] An implementation =
example would look like the following :
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_143099714475030426MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>=C2=B7<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">A sends a SYN message with=
 MP_CAPABLE+MP_PREFER_PROXY to B<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_143099714475030426MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>=C2=B7<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">This SYN is intercepted by=
 an MCP which tracks the connection, that is: it removes the MP_PREFER_PROX=
Y and add filters to intercept relevant incoming
 SYN/ACK. The SYN (MP_CAPABLE) is then forwarded to the next hop and so on,=
 until it reaches B.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_143099714475030426MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>=C2=B7<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">If the SYN/ACK received fr=
om B includes MP_CAPABLE, the MCP will forward it to A. A is now aware that=
 B is MPTCP-capable and they can establish
 subsequent subflows directly. The MCP does not announce explicitly itself =
to A. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>Hmm. I am not sure about this.</div><div>I understand A wi=
ll receive MP_CAPABLE from B in this case. But, I think even B doesn&#39;t =
support MPTCP, A will receive MP_CAPABLE from B which is created by MCP (by=
 spoofing). So, I think A cannot identify whether this is from B or MCP.</d=
iv><div>--<br></div><div>Yoshi=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)">=C2=
=A0</span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=
=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_143099714475030426Wo=
rdSection1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:=
0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a1146b7f04dca68054b7ddcbc--


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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:47:53 -0700
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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Hi Olivier,

I personally prefer 1, but I might prefer some generic framework as I am
guessing there will be other cases that we don't want timestamps for PAWS.

BTW, are we sure that DSN option can provide protections against PAWS? We
cannot guarantee DSN option appears on all segments..
--
Yoshi


On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Olivier Bonaventure <
Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> The standard timestamp option for TCP is defined in RFC7323. It is widely
> implemented and used. It has two main objectives :
>
> - timing measurements
> - protection agains wrapped sequence numbers
>
>
> Given the importance of the second utilisation, RFC7323 has mandated the
> presence of a timestamp option in each segment once negotiated in the
> three-way handshake. For Multipath TCP, the DSN option already protects us
> from PAWS problems and it should not be mandatory to include timestamps in
> each packet sent over a Multipath TCP connection. Given the length of the
> timestamp and DSN options these two options already consume a large number
> of bytes and could limit the number of SACK blocks that can be placed
> inside acknowledgements.
>
> I will only be able to attend the Chicago meeting remotely, but I would
> like to start a discussion on the utilisation of timestamps by Multipath
> TCP on the list. I see two possibilities, but there are possibly more :
>
> 1. Ask for a revision of RFC7323 that allows timestamp options to be
> optional in packets of Multipath TCP connections
>
> 2. Define a new Multipath TCP option to carry timestamps. The utilisation
> of this option would be included in Multipath TCP and thus no option
> besides MP_CAPABLE would need to be included in the SYN.
>
> Do you have any opinion on these two possibilities ?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Olivier
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Olivier,<div><br></div><div>I personally prefer 1, but =
I might prefer some generic framework as I am guessing there will be other =
cases that we don&#39;t want timestamps for PAWS.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><di=
v>BTW, are we sure that DSN option can provide protections against PAWS? We=
 cannot guarantee DSN option appears on all segments..</div><div>--</div><d=
iv>Yoshi</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Olivier Bonaventure <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" target=3D"_blank"=
>Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
<br>
The standard timestamp option for TCP is defined in RFC7323. It is widely i=
mplemented and used. It has two main objectives :<br>
<br>
- timing measurements<br>
- protection agains wrapped sequence numbers<br>
<br>
<br>
Given the importance of the second utilisation, RFC7323 has mandated the pr=
esence of a timestamp option in each segment once negotiated in the three-w=
ay handshake. For Multipath TCP, the DSN option already protects us from PA=
WS problems and it should not be mandatory to include timestamps in each pa=
cket sent over a Multipath TCP connection. Given the length of the timestam=
p and DSN options these two options already consume a large number of bytes=
 and could limit the number of SACK blocks that can be placed inside acknow=
ledgements.<br>
<br>
I will only be able to attend the Chicago meeting remotely, but I would lik=
e to start a discussion on the utilisation of timestamps by Multipath TCP o=
n the list. I see two possibilities, but there are possibly more :<br>
<br>
1. Ask for a revision of RFC7323 that allows timestamp options to be option=
al in packets of Multipath TCP connections<br>
<br>
2. Define a new Multipath TCP option to carry timestamps. The utilisation o=
f this option would be included in Multipath TCP and thus no option besides=
 MP_CAPABLE would need to be included in the SYN.<br>
<br>
Do you have any opinion on these two possibilities ?<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
multipathtcp mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">multipathtcp@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/multipa=
thtcp</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
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Thread-Topic: explicit mode for smartphone scenario
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Subject: [multipathtcp] explicit mode for smartphone scenario
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Hi,
So continuing to concentrate first **specifically** on the solution for thi=
s use case:

<<. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and W=
iFi, plus a proxy in the operator's network.>>
And now looking at "explicit" solutions - meaning the smartphone is configu=
red to know about the proxy.

I'd like to understand better the pros and cons of the solution proposed in=
 the plain-mode draft and the solution that uses SOCKS protocol between sma=
rtphone and the proxy.  (I'm not sure where /if the latter is fully defined=
, described in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-mptcp-3=
.pdf  and   https://dial.uclouvain.be/downloader/downloader.php?pid=3Dthesi=
s%3A366&datastream=3DPDF_01

Thanks
phil

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<body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">continuing to conce=
ntrate first **specifically** on the solution for this use case:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;&lt;</span>. The o=
ther scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus=
 a proxy in the operator&#8217;s network.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And now looking at &#8220;explicit&#8221; solutions =
&#8211; meaning the smartphone is configured to know about the proxy.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;d like to understand better the pros and con=
s of the solution proposed in the plain-mode draft and the solution that us=
es SOCKS protocol between smartphone and the proxy.&nbsp; (I&#8217;m not su=
re where /if the latter is fully defined, described
 in <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-mptcp-3=
.pdf">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-mptcp-3.pdf</a>&=
nbsp; and&nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"https://dial.uclouvain.be/downloader/downl=
oader.php?pid=3Dthesis%3A366&amp;datastream=3DPDF_01">https://dial.uclouvai=
n.be/downloader/downloader.php?pid=3Dthesis%3A366&amp;datastream=3DPDF_01</=
a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">phil<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:44:27 +0000
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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Hi Med,

> What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal =
on them?
> [Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default =
policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to =
bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.=20

Could you please expand on this? Which connections would get =
network-assisted MPTCP and which would not? Why treat some different =
from others?

Regards,
Alan


> On 24 Mar 2017, at 12:37, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>=20
> Re-,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 13:17
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med,
> =20
> Thanks for the reply. I remain confused however with this:
> =20
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal =
on them?
> [Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default =
policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to =
bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.=20
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
>=20
>=20
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 00:40
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med, all,
> =20
> Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of =
weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than =
previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going =
with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.
> =20
> My main concern remains the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY option.
> =20
> The use case as I see it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert =
this into the flow in order to signal for the other MCP to pick up the =
flow and proxy it.
> [Med] Yes.
> =20
> But I still find myself asking why?
> [Med] Fair question.
> =20
> Why is this solution uniquely better than either:
> =20
> - Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT;
> [Med] The implicit mode is something that can be easily implemented =
compared to the explicit mode even if it comes with its constraints =
(e.g., location of the MCP, ..). Our approach here is not mandate the =
deployment scheme and let operators to make their choice.
>  =20
>  or
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for =
point 1, and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what =
not to for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of =
policy would a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able =
to? And are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only =
way of achieving what you want?
> =20
> Given this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the =
MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base =
protocol spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still =
puzzled as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the =
other two options.
> =20
> As a side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d =
rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much =
like an MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Dear all,=20
>=20
> A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.=20
> We had many off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the =
outcome of those discussion. The main changes are:
>=20
> * MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option =
codepoints space.
> * A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined to demux native =
connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in use.
> * MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT
> * Only TCP is covered
> * Interference with TFO are discussed=20
>=20
> Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> =
[mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>]
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52
> =C3=80 : Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras; stefano.secci@lip6.fr =
<mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr>; Wouter
> Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN;
> Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis Contreras; JACQUENET Christian
> IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier =
Bonaventure;
> SungHoon Seo; Stefano Secci
> Objet : New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-
> 10.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:                       draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode
> Revision:       10
> Title:             Extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment =
Models
> Document date:        2017-03-09
> Group:                      Individual Submission
> Pages:                       25
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair- =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair->
> mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode/
> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain- =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain->
> mode-10
> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode-10
>=20
> Abstract:
>   Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server
>   side, some service providers now consider a network-assisted model
>   that relies upon the activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP
>   Conversion Point (MCP).  Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models =
are
>   designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment =
of
>   multi-path communications without making any assumption about the
>   support of MPTCP by the communicating peers.  MCPs located in the
>   network are responsible for establishing multi-path communications =
on
>   behalf of endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities
>   to achieve different goals that include (but are not limited to)
>   optimization of resource usage (e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of
>   resiliency (e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic
>   offload management.
>=20
>   This document specifies extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP
>   deployment models.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>
> =20
> =20


--Apple-Mail=_B2ABDA70-87F0-4C3B-BEA2-C038DBAACB73
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">What connections do you =
envisage&nbsp;<i class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal on them?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">[Med] MPTCP connections issued from a =
host in the LAN. A default policy configured to a CPE would be that =
these connections need to bypass the network-assisted MPTCP =
service.&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Could you please expand =
on this? Which connections would get network-assisted MPTCP and which =
would not? Why treat some different from others?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div =
class=3D"">Alan</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 24 Mar 2017, at 12:37, <a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Re-,<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Please see inline.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Med<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
13:17<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for the reply. I remain confused however with =
this:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Just insert MCP =
into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the second one is that =
MCP resources usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like =
to dedicate these resources to the connections it proxies. Further, =
because =E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D =
there will be MCPs that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the =
MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts =
to bypass this MCP.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">What connections do you envisage<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><i =
class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on them?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">[Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A =
default policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need =
to bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On 24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Hi Alan,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Please =
see inline.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan Ford [<a href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
00:40<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med, all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks=
 for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of weeks to =
respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than previous =
versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going with this =
now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP proxying which =
work in different deployment scenarios.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">My main concern remains the need for this =
MP_PREFER_PROXY option.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">The use case as I see it is for the CPE acting =
as an MCP to insert this into the flow in order to signal for the other =
MCP to pick up the flow and proxy it.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Yes.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">But I still find myself =
asking<i class=3D"">&nbsp;why?</i></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Fair question.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Why =
is this solution uniquely better than either:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Explicitly address the MCP using =
MP_CONVERT;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The implicit mode is =
something that can be easily implemented compared to the explicit mode =
even if it comes with its constraints (e.g., location of the MCP, ..). =
Our approach here is not mandate the deployment scheme and let operators =
to make their choice.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;or</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- =
Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the =
second one is that MCP resources usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an =
operator would like to dedicate these resources to the connections it =
proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support =
MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs that will strip by default =
MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP =
connections issued from endhosts to bypass this MCP.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This =
would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for point 1, =
and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what not to =
for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of policy would =
a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able to? And are =
there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only way of =
achieving what you want?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Given this option is now a separate option and =
not a bit in the MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned about its =
impact on the base protocol spec, since this can be kept entirely =
separate, but I am still puzzled as to the actual real-world =
requirements of this rather than the other two options.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">As a =
side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d rather the =
term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much like an =
MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Alan<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
10 Mar 2017, at 08:43,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Dear all,<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of the draft is available =
online. This version integrates the comments that were raised on the =
mailing list.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">We had many off-line discussions with Alan, this version is =
the outcome of those discussion. The main changes are:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">* MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option =
codepoints space.<br class=3D"">* A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) =
is defined to demux native connections vs proxied one when the implicit =
mode is in use.<br class=3D"">* MCPs are now able to detect if remote =
MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT<br class=3D"">* Only TCP is covered<br =
class=3D"">* Interference with TFO are discussed<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers,<br class=3D"">Med<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">-----Message d'origine-----<br class=3D"">De&nbsp;:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a>]<br =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;: vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52<br =
class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;: Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">stefano.secci@lip6.fr</span></a>; Wouter<br =
class=3D"">Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR =
Mohamed IMT/OLN;<br class=3D"">Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis =
Contreras; JACQUENET Christian<br class=3D"">IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; =
Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier Bonaventure;<br class=3D"">SungHoon=
 Seo; Stefano Secci<br class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;: New Version Notification =
for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-<br class=3D"">10.txt<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the<br =
class=3D"">IETF repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-m=
ode<br class=3D"">Revision:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>10<br class=3D"">Title:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment Models<br class=3D"">Document =
date:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2017-03-09<br =
class=3D"">Group:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Individual =
Submission<br class=3D"">Pages:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>25<br =
class=3D"">URL: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-</span></a=
><br class=3D"">mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">Status: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-</span><=
/a><br class=3D"">plain-mode/<br class=3D"">Htmlized: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-</span>=
</a><br class=3D"">mode-10<br class=3D"">Diff: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-</spa=
n></a><br class=3D"">plain-mode-10<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Because of the lack of =
Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;side, some service providers now consider a =
network-assisted model<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;that relies upon the =
activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Conversion Point (MCP). &nbsp;Network-Assisted =
MPTCP deployment models are<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;designed to =
facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment of<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;multi-path communications without making any =
assumption about the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;support of MPTCP by the =
communicating peers. &nbsp;MCPs located in the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;network are responsible for establishing =
multi-path communications on<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;behalf of =
endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;to achieve different goals that include (but are =
not limited to)<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;optimization of resource usage =
(e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;resiliency =
(e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;offload management.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;This document specifies extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;deployment models.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of<br class=3D"">submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized =
version and diff are available at<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</span></a>.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
IETF Secretariat<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp</span></a><o=
:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b=
r class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:54:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] when and how is data-ACK responded?
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Hi Wang,

Data ACK is separate from subflow ACK. It exists purely to control the =
connection-level receive window; each MPTCP segment will contain a data =
ACK allowing the receive window to advance. Whilst you could certainly =
see the same data ACK sent as a =E2=80=9Cduplicate ACK=E2=80=9D when the =
same value is sent, this will not necessarily trigger retransmission - =
this depends on the subflow-level retransmission. It=E2=80=99s =
implementation-specific as to when you may decide to retransmit, =
duplicating packets on a separate subflow.

Regards,
Alan

> On 24 Mar 2017, at 06:25, =E7=8E=8B=E5=B8=85 <13211134@bjtu.edu.cn> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>    Data-ACK is independent with subflow-ACK which is responded by TCP =
layer, but when and how is data-ACK responded? I wonder whether =
discontinuous segments in data-level will trigger duplicate ACK, so fast =
retransmission will happen.If not, how to avoid this problem?
>=20
> Best,
>=20
> Wang Shuai
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Wang,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Data ACK is separate from subflow ACK. It exists purely to =
control the connection-level receive window; each MPTCP segment will =
contain a data ACK allowing the receive window to advance. Whilst you =
could certainly see the same data ACK sent as a =E2=80=9Cduplicate =
ACK=E2=80=9D when the same value is sent, this will not necessarily =
trigger retransmission - this depends on the subflow-level =
retransmission. It=E2=80=99s implementation-specific as to when you may =
decide to retransmit, duplicating packets on a separate =
subflow.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Alan</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
24 Mar 2017, at 06:25, =E7=8E=8B=E5=B8=85 &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:13211134@bjtu.edu.cn" =
class=3D"">13211134@bjtu.edu.cn</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"">Hi,</p><p class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; Data-ACK is independent =
with subflow-ACK which is responded by TCP layer, but when and how is =
data-ACK responded? I wonder whether discontinuous segments in =
data-level will trigger duplicate ACK, so fast retransmission will =
happen.If not, how to avoid this problem?</p><p class=3D"">Best,</p><p =
class=3D"">Wang =
Shuai</p>_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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Hello,
Now, I am trying to understand off-path (explicit mode) scenarios.
In explicit mode, we need to tell the final destination to the proxy
through MP_Convert Information Element. But, this requires mptcp
connections. In order to clarify which cases can use this mode, I have
drawn the following 7 cases.
I am wondering if we can support case 3) 4) 5) with explicit mode or not.
Also, supporting case 6), 7) seems to be a bit unclear.
It would be great if some folks could clarify this.

------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------


     C ... client,   S ... Server,  P ... Proxy,  MCIE ... MP_Convert
Information Element
   ====   ... mptcp connection
   ----   ... tcp connection


single proxy cases

1)   C ========== P -------- S         : C tells S's addr to P by MCIE
2)   C ========== P ======== S         : C tells S's addr to P by MCIE
3)   C ---------- P ======== S         : How C tell S's address to P?

double proxy cases

4)   C -------- P1 ======== P2 ------- S  : How C tell S's address to P1?
5)   C -------- P1 ======== P2 ======= S  : How C tell S's address to P1?
6)   C ======== P1 ======== P2 ------- S  : C tells S's addr to P1 by MCIE
and P1 forwards it to P2?
7)   C ======== P1 ======== P2 ======= S  : C tells S's addr to P1 by MCIE
and P1 forwards it to P2?

--f403043c4aa003bb62054b8dcee6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:16px"><div>Hello,</div><div>Now, I=
 am trying to understand off-path (explicit mode) scenarios.</div><div>In e=
xplicit mode, we need to tell the final destination to the proxy through MP=
_Convert Information Element. But, this requires mptcp connections. In orde=
r to clarify which cases can use this mode, I have drawn the following 7 ca=
ses.=C2=A0</div><div>I am wondering if we can support case 3) 4) 5) with ex=
plicit mode or not. Also, supporting case 6), 7) seems to be a bit unclear.=
 =C2=A0</div><div>It would be great if some folks could clarify this.</div>=
</div><div style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-size:=
16px">------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr=
>-----------------</div><div style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:16px"><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:16px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 </span><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">=C2=A0C ... cl=
ient, =C2=A0 S ... Server, =C2=A0P ... Proxy, =C2=A0MCIE ... MP_Convert Inf=
ormation Element</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=
=3D"1">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D =C2=A0 ... mptcp connection</font></div><d=
iv><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">=C2=A0 =C2=A0---- =C2=A0 =
... tcp connection</font></div><div style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace=
" size=3D"1">single proxy cases</font></div><div><br></div><div><font face=
=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">1) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D P -------- S =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : C tells S&#39;s addr to P=
 by MCIE</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">2)=
 =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : C tells S&#39;s addr to P by MCIE</font></div><d=
iv><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">3) =C2=A0 C ---------- P =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=C2=A0</font><span =
style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:x-small">How C tell S&#3=
9;s address to P?</span></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=
=3D"1"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1"=
>double proxy cases</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" si=
ze=3D"1"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"=
1">4) =C2=A0 C -------- P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 ------- S =C2=A0: Ho=
w C tell S&#39;s address to P1?</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, m=
onospace" size=3D"1">5) =C2=A0 C -------- P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0: How C tell S&#39;s address to P1?</font></d=
iv><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">6) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 ------- S =C2=A0: C tells=
 S&#39;s addr to P1 by MCIE and P1 forwards it to P2?</font></div><div><fon=
t face=3D"monospace, monospace" size=3D"1">7) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0: C tel=
ls S&#39;s addr to P1 by MCIE and P1 forwards it to P2?</font></div></div><=
/div>

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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp" <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about on-path proxy
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To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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Yoshifumi,

> Now, I am trying to understand off-path (explicit mode) scenarios.
> In explicit mode, we need to tell the final destination to the proxy
> through MP_Convert Information Element. But, this requires mptcp
> connections. In order to clarify which cases can use this mode, I have
> drawn the following 7 cases.
> I am wondering if we can support case 3) 4) 5) with explicit mode or
> not. Also, supporting case 6), 7) seems to be a bit unclear.
> It would be great if some folks could clarify this.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>      C ... client,   S ... Server,  P ... Proxy,  MCIE ... MP_Convert
> Information Element
>    ====   ... mptcp connection
>    ----   ... tcp connection
>

I think that you forgot case 0

  0)   C ---------- P -------- S

This is a classical SOCKS proxy, except that the SOCKS proxy requires 
additional rtts

> single proxy cases
>
> 1)   C ========== P -------- S         : C tells S's addr to P by MCIE
> 2)   C ========== P ======== S         : C tells S's addr to P by MCIE
> 3)   C ---------- P ======== S         : How C tell S's address to P?
>

Today, the thrid case is often a load balancer in front of a real 
server. In this case, the client is not aware of the existence of S and 
only knows P. If we want to support this scenario, we need to extend TCP 
itself.

> double proxy cases
> 4)   C -------- P1 ======== P2 ------- S  : How C tell S's address to P1?
> 5)   C -------- P1 ======== P2 ======= S  : How C tell S's address to P1?

Same as case 3 above. C could use the MCIE to add information about the 
final destination.

> 6)   C ======== P1 ======== P2 ------- S  : C tells S's addr to P1 by
> MCIE and P1 forwards it to P2?
> 7)   C ======== P1 ======== P2 ======= S  : C tells S's addr to P1 by
> MCIE and P1 forwards it to P2?

Here also, case 8 could be relevant in some scenarios


  8)   C ---------- P -------- S


This would create a generic explicit TCP proxy function, that would 
apply beyond MPTCP.

Olivier


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Thread-Topic: explicit mode for smartphone scenario
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] explicit mode for smartphone scenario
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--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E40EF8OPEXCLILMA3corp_
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Hi Phil,

The main issues with SOCKS are:

=B7         Too chatty: Up to 6 messages to establish a subflow

=B7         Introduce extra delay to establish MPTCP connections: several t=
ens of ms were reported.

=B7         Some issues with incoming connections (compatibility with UPnP =
IGD).


You can refer to slides 14 and 18: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slid=
es/slides-95-mptcp-1.pdf

Cheers,
Med

De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de phil=
ip.eardley@bt.com
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 18:37
=C0 : multipathtcp@ietf.org
Objet : [multipathtcp] explicit mode for smartphone scenario

Hi,
So continuing to concentrate first **specifically** on the solution for thi=
s use case:

<<. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE and W=
iFi, plus a proxy in the operator's network.>>
And now looking at "explicit" solutions - meaning the smartphone is configu=
red to know about the proxy.

I'd like to understand better the pros and cons of the solution proposed in=
 the plain-mode draft and the solution that uses SOCKS protocol between sma=
rtphone and the proxy.  (I'm not sure where /if the latter is fully defined=
, described in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-mptcp-3=
.pdf  and   https://dial.uclouvain.be/downloader/downloader.php?pid=3Dthesi=
s%3A366&datastream=3DPDF_01

Thanks
phil

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Phil,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The main issues with SOCKS are:=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span =
style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Too chatty: Up to 6 mes=
sages to establish a subflow<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span =
style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Introduce extra delay t=
o establish MPTCP connections: several tens of ms were reported.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span =
style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Some issues with incomi=
ng connections (compatibility with UPnP IGD). &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">You can refer to slides 14 and =
18:
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-mptcp-1.pdf=
">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-mptcp-1.pdf</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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 [mailto:multipathtcp-b</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:FR">ounces@ie=
tf.org]
<b>De la part de</b> philip.eardley@bt.com<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> vendredi 24 mars 2017 18:37<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> multipathtcp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> [multipathtcp] explicit mode for smartphone scenario<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">So <span style=3D"color:#1F497D=
">continuing to concentrate first **specifically** on the solution for this=
 use case:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;&lt=
;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled=
 smartphone, with LTE and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator&#8217;s networ=
k.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">And now looking at &#8220;expli=
cit&#8221; solutions &#8211; meaning the smartphone is configured to know a=
bout the proxy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">I&#8217;d like to understand be=
tter the pros and cons of the solution proposed in the plain-mode draft and=
 the solution that uses SOCKS protocol between smartphone and the proxy.&nb=
sp; (I&#8217;m not sure where /if the latter is fully
 defined, described in <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slide=
s/slides-93-mptcp-3.pdf">
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-mptcp-3.pdf</a>&nbsp; =
and&nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"https://dial.uclouvain.be/downloader/downloader.=
php?pid=3Dthesis%3A366&amp;datastream=3DPDF_01">https://dial.uclouvain.be/d=
ownloader/downloader.php?pid=3Dthesis%3A366&amp;datastream=3DPDF_01</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 11:20:58 -0700
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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Hi Olivier, Med,

Thanks for the response. I have been thinking that it would be better if we
can classify our use cases so that we can have clear vision for what to
solve. Things I may want to classify is:
   a) solutions requires changes in only MPTCP or in TCP general
   b) solutions requires proxies to be on-path or solutions that work with
off-path proxy.

We can think about the solutions for a) if we think it's necessary, but I
am thinking that the proper venue for the discussion might not be this WG.

I think the approach Med mentioned requires the proxy to be on-path, so I
would like to classify it as an on-path solution.
I had some hard time to comprehend the proxy drafts and I think one reason
for that is it somehow mixes up on-path and off-path cases. I start
thinking separating docs for on-path and off-path solutions might be
helpful.
--
Yoshi

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:06 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Yoshi,
>
>
>
> Olivier already answered to many of your points. There are other
> communication scenarios not included in your list that we want to cover.
>
>
>
> Below some additional comments.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de=
*
> Yoshifumi Nishida
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* samedi 25 mars 2017 08:08
> *=C3=80 :* multipathtcp
> *Objet :* [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Now, I am trying to understand off-path (explicit mode) scenarios.
>
> In explicit mode, we need to tell the final destination to the proxy
> through MP_Convert Information Element. But, this requires mptcp
> connections. In order to clarify which cases can use this mode, I have
> drawn the following 7 cases.
>
> I am wondering if we can support case 3) 4) 5) with explicit mode or not.
> Also, supporting case 6), 7) seems to be a bit unclear.
>
> It would be great if some folks could clarify this.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
>
>
>
>
>
>      C ... client,   S ... Server,  P ... Proxy,  MCIE ... MP_Convert
> Information Element
>
>    =3D=3D=3D=3D   ... mptcp connection
>
>    ----   ... tcp connection
>
>
>
>
>
> single proxy cases
>
>
>
> 1)   C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P -------- S         : C tells S's =
addr to P by MCIE
>
> 2)   C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S       =
  : C tells S's addr to P by MCIE
>
> 3)   C ---------- P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S         : How C tell S's a=
ddress to P?
>
> [Med] The communication between C and P relies on TCP. C does not need to
> supply any information to P for case 3. The client is not even aware abou=
t
> the presence of P in this case.
>
>
>
> double proxy cases
>
>
>
> 4)   C -------- P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 ------- S  : How C tell S'=
s address to P1?
>
> [Med] S is the destination IP address of the packets sent from C to P1.
> There is no need for an object to supply that information.
>
>
>
> 5)   C -------- P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S  :=
 How C tell S's address to P1?
>
> [Med] S is the destination IP address of the packets sent from C to P1.
>
>
>
> 6)   C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 ------- S =
 : C tells S's addr to P1 by MCIE
> and P1 forwards it to P2?
>
> [Med] No. S is the destination IP address of the packets sent from C to
> P1.  MCIE is not needed in the C-P1 leg.
>
>
>
> 7)   C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 =3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D S  : C tells S's addr to P1 by MCIE
> and P1 forwards it to P2?
>
> [Med] No. S is the destination IP address of the packets sent from C to
> P1.
>
>
>

--001a1140ccf2a4d0f5054bba675d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Olivier, Med,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the respons=
e. I have been thinking that it would be better if we can classify our use =
cases so that we can have clear vision for what to solve. Things I may want=
 to classify is:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a) solutions requires changes in on=
ly MPTCP or in TCP general</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0b) solutions requires pro=
xies to be on-path or solutions that work with off-path proxy.</div><div>=
=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div>We can think about the solutions for a) if we think =
it&#39;s necessary, but I am thinking that the proper venue for the discuss=
ion might not be this WG.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I think the approa=
ch Med mentioned requires the proxy to be on-path, so I would like to class=
ify it as an on-path solution.</div><div>I had some hard time to comprehend=
 the proxy drafts and I think one reason for that is it somehow mixes up on=
-path and off-path cases. I start thinking separating docs for on-path and =
off-path solutions might be helpful.</div><div>--<br></div><div>Yoshi</div>=
<div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:06 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mo=
hamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-6235931091684110015m_1785747029335572345WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Yoshi,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Olivier already answered to man=
y of your points. There are other communication scenarios not included in y=
our list that we want to cover.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Below some additional comments.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> mult=
ipathtcp [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">multipathtcp-bounces@i<wbr>etf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Yoshifumi Nishida<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> samedi 25 mars 2017 08:08<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> multipathtcp<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now, I am trying to understand off-path (explicit mo=
de) scenarios.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In explicit mode, we need to tell the final destinat=
ion to the proxy through MP_Convert Information Element. But, this requires=
 mptcp connections. In order to clarify which cases can use this mode, I ha=
ve drawn the following 7 cases.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am wondering if we can support case 3) 4) 5) with =
explicit mode or not. Also, supporting case 6), 7) seems to be a bit unclea=
r. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would be great if some folks could clarify this.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">------------------------------<wbr>-----------------=
-------------<wbr>-----------------<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
=C2=A0C ... client, =C2=A0 S ... Server, =C2=A0P ... Proxy, =C2=A0MCIE ... =
MP_Convert Information Element</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D =C2=A0 ... mptcp connection</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0 =C2=A0---- =C2=A0 ... tcp connection</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">single proxy cases</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">1) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P -------- S =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : C tells S&#39;s addr to P by MCIE</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">2) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P =3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : C tells S&#39;s addr to P by M=
CIE</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">3) =C2=A0 C ---------- P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">How C tell S&#39;s address to P?<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] The communication =
between C and P relies on TCP. C does not need to supply any information to=
 P for case 3. The client is not even aware about the presence
 of P in this case.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">double proxy cases</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">4) =C2=A0 C -------- P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 -------=
 S =C2=A0: How C tell S&#39;s address to P1?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] S is the destinati=
on IP address of the packets sent from C to P1. There is no need for an obj=
ect to supply that information.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">5) =C2=A0 C -------- P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P2 =3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0: How C tell S&#39;s address to P1?<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] S is the destinati=
on IP address of the packets sent from C to P1.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">6) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D P2 ------- S =C2=A0: C tells S&#39;s addr to P1 by MCIE and P1 forwa=
rds it to P2?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] No. S is the desti=
nation IP address of the packets sent from C to P1.=C2=A0 MCIE is not neede=
d in the C-P1 leg.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">7) =C2=A0 C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D P2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D S =C2=A0: C tells S&#39;s addr to P1 by MCI=
E and P1 forwards it to P2?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] No. S is the desti=
nation IP address of the packets sent from C to P1.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a1140ccf2a4d0f5054bba675d--


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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:48:41 +0100
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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Hi Med,

Right, so:

1) if you had policy at the sending MCP (CPE) it would need explicit =
mode.

2) If you had policy at the receiving MCP it could be done with implicit =
mode.

So the case where this is useful is if you have policy at the sending =
MCP but need to be using implicit mode. Is that right? Why would such a =
use case exist which could not be solved with either of the other two =
solutions above?

Regards,
Alan

> On 27 Mar 2017, at 13:46, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 18:44
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med,
> =20
> What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal =
on them?
> [Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default =
policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to =
bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.=20
> =20
> Could you please expand on this? Which connections would get =
network-assisted MPTCP and which would not? Why treat some different =
from others?
> [Med] This is policy-based (Section 5.6.3 of =
draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations). Policies to determine =
connections that are eligible to the network-assisted MPTCP can be =
provided by the network provider, configured locally on the CPE by a =
user, etc. It is perfectly fine for a network provider to provision a =
default policy to let pass all MPTCP connections received from the LAN =
side without any help form an MCP. Other policies can be provisioned to =
MCPs. =20
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> =20
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 12:37, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Re-,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 13:17
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med,
> =20
> Thanks for the reply. I remain confused however with this:
> =20
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal =
on them?
> [Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default =
policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to =
bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.=20
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 00:40
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med, all,
> =20
> Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of =
weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than =
previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going =
with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.
> =20
> My main concern remains the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY option.
> =20
> The use case as I see it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert =
this into the flow in order to signal for the other MCP to pick up the =
flow and proxy it.
> [Med] Yes.
> =20
> But I still find myself asking why?
> [Med] Fair question.
> =20
> Why is this solution uniquely better than either:
> =20
> - Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT;
> [Med] The implicit mode is something that can be easily implemented =
compared to the explicit mode even if it comes with its constraints =
(e.g., location of the MCP, ..). Our approach here is not mandate the =
deployment scheme and let operators to make their choice.
>  =20
>  or
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for =
point 1, and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what =
not to for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of =
policy would a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able =
to? And are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only =
way of achieving what you want?
> =20
> Given this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the =
MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base =
protocol spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still =
puzzled as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the =
other two options.
> =20
> As a side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d =
rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much =
like an MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Dear all,=20
>=20
> A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.=20
> We had many off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the =
outcome of those discussion. The main changes are:
>=20
> * MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option =
codepoints space.
> * A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined to demux native =
connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in use.
> * MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT
> * Only TCP is covered
> * Interference with TFO are discussed=20
>=20
> Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> =
[mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>]
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52
> =C3=80 : Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras; stefano.secci@lip6.fr =
<mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr>; Wouter
> Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN;
> Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis Contreras; JACQUENET Christian
> IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier =
Bonaventure;
> SungHoon Seo; Stefano Secci
> Objet : New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-
> 10.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:                       draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode
> Revision:       10
> Title:             Extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment =
Models
> Document date:        2017-03-09
> Group:                      Individual Submission
> Pages:                       25
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair- =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair->
> mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode/
> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain- =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain->
> mode-10
> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode-10
>=20
> Abstract:
>   Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server
>   side, some service providers now consider a network-assisted model
>   that relies upon the activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP
>   Conversion Point (MCP).  Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models =
are
>   designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment =
of
>   multi-path communications without making any assumption about the
>   support of MPTCP by the communicating peers.  MCPs located in the
>   network are responsible for establishing multi-path communications =
on
>   behalf of endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities
>   to achieve different goals that include (but are not limited to)
>   optimization of resource usage (e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of
>   resiliency (e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic
>   offload management.
>=20
>   This document specifies extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP
>   deployment models.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>
> =20
> =20
> =20


--Apple-Mail=_B75E5704-C2EE-4AE1-A9E3-86BD6B5AF19F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Right, so:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1) if you had policy at the sending MCP (CPE) it would need =
explicit mode.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">2) If you had policy at the receiving MCP it could be done =
with implicit mode.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">So the case where this is useful is if you have policy at the =
sending MCP but need to be using implicit mode. Is that right? Why would =
such a use case exist which could not be solved with either of the other =
two solutions above?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Alan</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
27 Mar 2017, at 13:46, <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Hi =
Alan,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Please see inline.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Med<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
18:44<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">What =
connections do you envisage&nbsp;<i class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a =
MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on them?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] =
MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default policy =
configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to bypass the =
network-assisted MPTCP service.&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Could you please expand on this? Which connections =
would get network-assisted MPTCP and which would not? Why treat some =
different from others?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] This is policy-based =
(Section 5.6.3 of draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations). Policies =
to determine connections that are eligible to the network-assisted MPTCP =
can be provided by the network provider, configured locally on the CPE =
by a user, etc. It is perfectly fine for a network provider to provision =
a default policy to let pass all MPTCP connections received from the LAN =
side without any help form an MCP. Other policies can be provisioned to =
MCPs. &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
24 Mar 2017, at 12:37,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Re-,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Please =
see inline.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan Ford [<a href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
13:17<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for the reply. I remain confused =
however with this:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Just insert MCP into everything which =
doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the =
second one is that MCP resources usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an =
operator would like to dedicate these resources to the connections it =
proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support =
MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs that will strip by default =
MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP =
connections issued from endhosts to bypass this MCP.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">What connections do you envisage<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><i =
class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on them?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in =
the LAN. A default policy configured to a CPE would be that these =
connections need to bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"=
 style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Hi Alan,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Please =
see inline.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
00:40<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Hi Med, all,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks=
 for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of weeks to =
respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than previous =
versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going with this =
now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP proxying which =
work in different deployment scenarios.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">My main concern remains the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY =
option.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">The use case as I see it is =
for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert this into the flow in order to =
signal for the other MCP to pick up the flow and proxy it.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Yes.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">But I =
still find myself asking<i class=3D"">&nbsp;why?</i></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Fair =
question.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Why =
is this solution uniquely better than either:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">- Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The implicit mode is =
something that can be easily implemented compared to the explicit mode =
even if it comes with its constraints (e.g., location of the MCP, ..). =
Our approach here is not mandate the deployment scheme and let operators =
to make their choice.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;or</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- =
Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] =
The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage won=E2=80=99t =
be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these resources to the =
connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99=
t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs that will strip by =
default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help =
MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this MCP.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This =
would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for point 1, =
and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what not to =
for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of policy would =
a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able to? And are =
there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only way of =
achieving what you want?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Given this option is now a =
separate option and not a bit in the MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less =
concerned about its impact on the base protocol spec, since this can be =
kept entirely separate, but I am still puzzled as to the actual =
real-world requirements of this rather than the other two =
options.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">As a =
side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d rather the =
term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much like an =
MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Dear =
all,<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">We had many =
off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the outcome of those =
discussion. The main changes are:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">* =
MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option codepoints =
space.<br class=3D"">* A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined =
to demux native connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in =
use.<br class=3D"">* MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not =
support MP_CONVERT<br class=3D"">* Only TCP is covered<br class=3D"">* =
Interference with TFO are discussed<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers,<br class=3D"">Med<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">-----Message d'origine-----<br =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a>]<br =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;: vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52<br =
class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;: Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">stefano.secci@lip6.fr</span></a>; Wouter<br =
class=3D"">Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR =
Mohamed IMT/OLN;<br class=3D"">Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis =
Contreras; JACQUENET Christian<br class=3D"">IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; =
Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier Bonaventure;<br class=3D"">SungHoon=
 Seo; Stefano Secci<br class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;: New Version Notification =
for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-<br class=3D"">10.txt<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the<br =
class=3D"">IETF repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-m=
ode<br class=3D"">Revision:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>10<br class=3D"">Title:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment Models<br class=3D"">Document =
date:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2017-03-09<br =
class=3D"">Group:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Individual =
Submission<br class=3D"">Pages:<span =
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nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>25<br =
class=3D"">URL: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
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class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-</span></a=
><br class=3D"">mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">Status: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-</span><=
/a><br class=3D"">plain-mode/<br class=3D"">Htmlized: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-</span>=
</a><br class=3D"">mode-10<br class=3D"">Diff: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-</spa=
n></a><br class=3D"">plain-mode-10<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Because of the lack of =
Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;side, some service providers now consider a =
network-assisted model<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;that relies upon the =
activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Conversion Point (MCP). &nbsp;Network-Assisted =
MPTCP deployment models are<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;designed to =
facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment of<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;multi-path communications without making any =
assumption about the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;support of MPTCP by the =
communicating peers. &nbsp;MCPs located in the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;network are responsible for establishing =
multi-path communications on<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;behalf of =
endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;to achieve different goals that include (but are =
not limited to)<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;optimization of resource usage =
(e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;resiliency =
(e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;offload management.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;This document specifies extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;deployment models.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
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From nobody Mon Mar 27 14:18:25 2017
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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:18:15 -0700
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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--001a11492f9aacce65054bbce1aa
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Hi Med,

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 12:32 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Re-,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 27 mars 2017 13:21
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> *Cc :* Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
> *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
>
>
>
> Hi Olivier, Med,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the response. I have been thinking that it would be better if
> we can classify our use cases so that we can have clear vision for what t=
o
> solve. Things I may want to classify is:
>
>    a) solutions requires changes in only MPTCP or in TCP general
>
>    b) solutions requires proxies to be on-path or solutions that work wit=
h
> off-path proxy.
>
>
>
> We can think about the solutions for a) if we think it's necessary, but I
> am thinking that the proper venue for the discussion might not be this WG=
.
>
>
>
> I think the approach Med mentioned requires the proxy to be on-path, so I
> would like to classify it as an on-path solution.
>
> [Med] I=E2=80=99m not sure to follow you here. What I described is aligne=
d with
> the target dual proxy case (https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-01#section-4.2): the first
> proxy is embedded on a CPE. There is no technical problem there to
> intercept the traffic to be proxyied given that the CPE sees all the
> traffic.
>

Well, this classification might be a bit different from the way described
in the draft.
What I meant for off-path (explicit) case is the cases where the proxy is
not on the path between client and server. No more and no less.
So, the dest address of the packets from client should be proxy's address.
(Otherwise, there's no way for proxies to fetch the packets)

I have thought it may be simpler if we think in this way rather than
thinking about CPEs.


>
>
> I had some hard time to comprehend the proxy drafts and I think one reaso=
n
> for that is it somehow mixes up on-path and off-path cases. I start
> thinking separating docs for on-path and off-path solutions might be
> helpful.
>
> [Med] There are a lot of commonalities between these two modes. The main
> difference is how to make involve the MCP into a connection.
>
>
This is just an idea. If we think we can proceed proxy ideas in the current
form, it's fine. But, I just would like to explore several possibilities.
--
Yoshi

--001a11492f9aacce65054bbce1aa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 12:32 PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadai=
r@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_4641423503042549669WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Re-,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Yosh=
ifumi Nishida [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_=
blank">nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp</a><wbr>]
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 27 mars 2017 13:21<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mod=
e)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Olivier, Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the response. I have been thinking that i=
t would be better if we can classify our use cases so that we can have clea=
r vision for what to solve. Things I may want to classify is:<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0a) solutions requires changes in only M=
PTCP or in TCP general<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0b) solutions requires proxies to be on-=
path or solutions that work with off-path proxy.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We can think about the solutions for a) if we think =
it&#39;s necessary, but I am thinking that the proper venue for the discuss=
ion might not be this WG.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the approach Med mentioned requires the prox=
y to be on-path, so I would like to classify it as an on-path solution.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] I=E2=80=99m not su=
re to follow you here. What I described is aligned with the target dual pro=
xy case (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-=
considerations-01#section-4.2" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/<wbr>draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-<wbr>considerations-01#section-4.2</a>)<w=
br>:
 the first proxy is embedded on a CPE. There is no technical problem there =
to intercept the traffic to be proxyied given that the CPE sees all the tra=
ffic. </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>Well, this classification might be a bit different from the way descri=
bed in the draft.=C2=A0</div><div>What I meant for off-path (explicit) case=
 is the cases where the proxy is not on the path between client and server.=
 No more and no less.</div><div>So, the dest address of the packets from cl=
ient should be proxy&#39;s address. (Otherwise, there&#39;s no way for prox=
ies to fetch the packets)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have thought it =
may be simpler if we think in this way rather than thinking about CPEs.</di=
v><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"=
blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_4641423503042549669WordSection1"><di=
v style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0=
pt"><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I had some hard time to compreh=
end the proxy drafts and I think one reason for that is it somehow mixes up=
 on-</span>path and off-path cases. I start thinking separating docs for on=
-path and off-path solutions might be
 helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] There are a lot of=
 commonalities between these two modes. The main difference is how to make =
involve the MCP into a connection.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"></span></p></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div>This is j=
ust an idea. If we think we can proceed proxy ideas in the current form, it=
&#39;s fine. But, I just would like to explore several possibilities.</div>=
<div>--</div><div>Yoshi</div></div></div></div>

--001a11492f9aacce65054bbce1aa--


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
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Thread-Topic: Impact of any of the mptcp proxy proposals on base protocol?
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Impact of any of the mptcp proxy proposals on base protocol?
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Hi,
My personal view is that the revised base protocol (RFC6824bis) is what all=
 MPTCP-enabled endpoints implement. So I want to make sure that we think ca=
refully about including any changes needed on the endpoint to get the proxy=
 scenarios to work.
If I get it right, this means that:

*         2-ended proxy scenarios -  endpoints run rfc6824bis, proxy device=
s run new mptcp-proxy protocol. Think this is ok - operator has chosen to d=
eploy the proxies, no changes needed on the endpoints.

*         1-ended proxy scenario with explicit mode - endpoint is explicitl=
y configured to know about the proxy and runs mptcp with additional capabil=
ity (MP_CONVERT info element in data, or some other proposal). It may be OK=
 for this not to be in the bis, since the endpoint is explicitly configured=
 with this capability, so it's reasonable to expect the operator to upgrade=
 the smartphone's mptcp. Opinions?

*         1-ended proxy scenario in implicit mode. Endpoint runs bis with a=
dditional capability (MP_PREFER_PROXY MPTCP Option or some other proposal).=
 Since this mode is implicit, I think this would need to be in the bis - or=
 alternatively, we don't support this scenario. Opinions?
Comments?
Thanks
phil


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">My personal view is that the revised base protocol (RFC6824bis) is=
 what all MPTCP-enabled endpoints implement. So I want to make sure that we=
 think carefully about including any
 changes needed on the endpoint to get the proxy scenarios to work.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">If I get it right, this means that:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-b=
ottom-alt:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>2-ended proxy scenarios &#8211; &nbsp;endpoi=
nts run rfc6824bis, proxy devices run new mptcp-proxy protocol. Think this =
is ok &#8211; operator has chosen to deploy the proxies, no changes needed =
on the endpoints.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-b=
ottom-alt:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>1-ended proxy scenario with explicit mode &#=
8211; endpoint is explicitly configured to know about the proxy and runs mp=
tcp with additional capability (MP_CONVERT info element in data, or some ot=
her proposal). It may be OK for this not
 to be in the bis, since the endpoint is explicitly configured with this ca=
pability, so it&#8217;s reasonable to expect the operator to upgrade the sm=
artphone&#8217;s mptcp. Opinions?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-b=
ottom-alt:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>1-ended proxy scenario in implicit mode. End=
point runs bis with additional capability (MP_PREFER_PROXY MPTCP Option or =
some other proposal). Since this mode is implicit, I think this would need =
to be in the bis &#8211; or alternatively,
 we don&#8217;t support this scenario. Opinions?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Comments?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">phil<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: philip.eardley@bt.com, multipathtcp@ietf.org
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] explicit mode for smartphone scenario
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Phil,
>
> So continuing to concentrate first **specifically** on the solution for
> this use case:
>
> <<. The other scenario involves an MPTCP-enabled smartphone, with LTE
> and WiFi, plus a proxy in the operator’s network.>>
>
> And now looking at “explicit” solutions – meaning the smartphone is
> configured to know about the proxy.
>
>
>
> I’d like to understand better the pros and cons of the solution proposed
> in the plain-mode draft and the solution that uses SOCKS protocol
> between smartphone and the proxy.  (I’m not sure where /if the latter is
> fully defined, described in
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-mptcp-3.pdf  and
>  https://dial.uclouvain.be/downloader/downloader.php?pid=thesis%3A366&datastream=PDF_01

There are different variants of SOCKS that can be used. They mainly 
depend on the number of messages that are used to authenticate the 
smartphone. In
https://inl.info.ucl.ac.be/system/files/PAM2016_54-deconinck.pdf
we used a SOCKS proxy that was configured with very weak authentication 
to minimise the additional delay for the establishment of the TCP 
connections. I don't know which type of authentication has been deployed 
in Korea.

There are two issues that need to be considered when deploying proxies 
for the smartphone use case :

a- minimise the end-to-end connection establishment time. Ideally, it 
should be possible to create an end-to-end connection with a single 
handshake and thus a single end-to-end rtt. When we analysed real 
smartphone traffic, we found that many connections were very short. 
SOCKS requires additional rtts between the smartphone and the proxy to 
establish eash connection. The plain-mode minimises the end-to-end 
connection establishment delay compared to SOCKS proxies.

b- authenticate the client (resp. the proxy) on the proxy (resp. the 
client) and possibly encrypt the traffic. SOCKS supports several 
mechanisms to authenticate the client and some implementation of SOCKS, 
such as the popular shadowsocks that was used in the PAM paper mentioned 
above, support proprietary authentication scheme. Encrypting wireless 
traffic makes a lot of sense in the smartphone scenario since it will 
likely hop from one WiFi network to another. Note that some operators 
could want to restrict the utilisation of the proxies on cellular and 
WiFi networks that they operate. On such networks, the IP addresses 
assigned by the operator could be sufficient to authenticate the 
client/proxy.




Olivier


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To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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Yoshifumi,
>
> Thanks for the response. I have been thinking that it would be better if
> we can classify our use cases so that we can have clear vision for what
> to solve. Things I may want to classify is:
>    a) solutions requires changes in only MPTCP or in TCP general
>    b) solutions requires proxies to be on-path or solutions that work
> with off-path proxy.
>
> We can think about the solutions for a) if we think it's necessary, but
> I am thinking that the proper venue for the discussion might not be this
> WG.
>
> I think the approach Med mentioned requires the proxy to be on-path, so
> I would like to classify it as an on-path solution.
> I had some hard time to comprehend the proxy drafts and I think one
> reason for that is it somehow mixes up on-path and off-path cases. I
> start thinking separating docs for on-path and off-path solutions might
> be helpful.

We combined the drafts based on the suggestions from the Berlin meeting. 
There might be other ways to describe the solution. Based on the results 
of the discussion in Chicago, we can try to think about a series of 
drafts that might be easier to read because each draft would be focussed 
on a smaller subset

Let's discuss this on the list after the meeting since I will only 
attend remotely

Olivier


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CC: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 13:32:32 +0100
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
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Hi Med,

I=E2=80=99m trying to determine what problem is trying to be solved =
here. I may have badly expressed my statements before, so I=E2=80=99ll =
rephrase:

1) If you wanted policy on the sending MCP, explicit mode would allow =
this
2) If you wanted policy at the receiving MCP, implicit mode would allow =
this

Additionally, the MP_PREFER_PROXY option allows policy at the sending =
MCP in implicit mode.

What I=E2=80=99m trying to get at is whether there are any actual =
deployment situations where this model is necessary?

Regards,
Alan

> On 28 Mar 2017, at 13:09, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 27 mars 2017 15:49
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med,
> =20
> Right, so:
> =20
> 1) if you had policy at the sending MCP (CPE) it would need explicit =
mode.
> Med: Not necessarily. Policies to elect flows can be provisioned on =
the CPE for both explicit/implicit modes. Traffic selection and traffic =
distribution logic is a common building block, if you will, for all =
modes. Please refer to the nam-deployment draft.
> =20
> 2) If you had policy at the receiving MCP it could be done with =
implicit mode.
> [Med] I=E2=80=99m not sure to get this one. Do you mean policies for =
incoming connections?
> =20
> So the case where this is useful is if you have policy at the sending =
MCP but need to be using implicit mode. Is that right? Why would such a =
use case exist which could not be solved with either of the other two =
solutions above?
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> On 27 Mar 2017, at 13:46, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 18:44
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med,
> =20
> What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal =
on them?
> [Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default =
policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to =
bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.=20
> =20
> Could you please expand on this? Which connections would get =
network-assisted MPTCP and which would not? Why treat some different =
from others?
> [Med] This is policy-based (Section 5.6.3 of =
draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations). Policies to determine =
connections that are eligible to the network-assisted MPTCP can be =
provided by the network provider, configured locally on the CPE by a =
user, etc. It is perfectly fine for a network provider to provision a =
default policy to let pass all MPTCP connections received from the LAN =
side without any help form an MCP. Other policies can be provisioned to =
MCPs. =20
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> =20
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 12:37, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Re-,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 13:17
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med,
> =20
> Thanks for the reply. I remain confused however with this:
> =20
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> What connections do you envisage not getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal =
on them?
> [Med] MPTCP connections issued from a host in the LAN. A default =
policy configured to a CPE would be that these connections need to =
bypass the network-assisted MPTCP service.=20
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> Please see inline.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> =20
> De : Alan Ford [mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com =
<mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com>]=20
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 24 mars 2017 00:40
> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] New Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> =20
> Hi Med, all,
> =20
> Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a couple of =
weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow than =
previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re going =
with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.
> =20
> My main concern remains the need for this MP_PREFER_PROXY option.
> =20
> The use case as I see it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert =
this into the flow in order to signal for the other MCP to pick up the =
flow and proxy it.
> [Med] Yes.
> =20
> But I still find myself asking why?
> [Med] Fair question.
> =20
> Why is this solution uniquely better than either:
> =20
> - Explicitly address the MCP using MP_CONVERT;
> [Med] The implicit mode is something that can be easily implemented =
compared to the explicit mode even if it comes with its constraints =
(e.g., location of the MCP, ..). Our approach here is not mandate the =
deployment scheme and let operators to make their choice.
>  =20
>  or
> - Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP =
anyway
> [Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources usage =
won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate these =
resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =E2=80=9Ceveryth=
ing doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there will be MCPs =
that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts to bypass this =
MCP.
> =20
> This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP address for =
point 1, and potential policy configuration as to what to proxy and what =
not to for point 2, but are these significant issues? What sort of =
policy would a client be able to apply which a proxy would not be able =
to? And are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit is the only =
way of achieving what you want?
> =20
> Given this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the =
MP_CAPABLE handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base =
protocol spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still =
puzzled as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the =
other two options.
> =20
> As a side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99d =
rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much =
like an MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.
> =20
> Regards,
> Alan
> =20
> On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
> =20
> Dear all,=20
>=20
> A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.=20
> We had many off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the =
outcome of those discussion. The main changes are:
>=20
> * MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option =
codepoints space.
> * A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined to demux native =
connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in use.
> * MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not support MP_CONVERT
> * Only TCP is covered
> * Interference with TFO are discussed=20
>=20
> Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> =
[mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>]
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52
> =C3=80 : Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras; stefano.secci@lip6.fr =
<mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr>; Wouter
> Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN;
> Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis Contreras; JACQUENET Christian
> IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier =
Bonaventure;
> SungHoon Seo; Stefano Secci
> Objet : New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-
> 10.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:                       draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode
> Revision:       10
> Title:             Extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment =
Models
> Document date:        2017-03-09
> Group:                      Individual Submission
> Pages:                       25
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair- =
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair->
> mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt
> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode/
> Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain- =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain->
> mode-10
> Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp- =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp->
> plain-mode-10
>=20
> Abstract:
>   Because of the lack of Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server
>   side, some service providers now consider a network-assisted model
>   that relies upon the activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP
>   Conversion Point (MCP).  Network-Assisted MPTCP deployment models =
are
>   designed to facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment =
of
>   multi-path communications without making any assumption about the
>   support of MPTCP by the communicating peers.  MCPs located in the
>   network are responsible for establishing multi-path communications =
on
>   behalf of endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities
>   to achieve different goals that include (but are not limited to)
>   optimization of resource usage (e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of
>   resiliency (e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic
>   offload management.
>=20
>   This document specifies extensions for Network-Assisted MPTCP
>   deployment models.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org <mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20


--Apple-Mail=_B14F7F6C-6CF0-4282-A5AE-B9DC2F1BA4A6
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m trying to determine what problem is trying to be =
solved here. I may have badly expressed my statements before, so I=E2=80=99=
ll rephrase:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1) =
If you wanted policy on the sending MCP, explicit mode would allow =
this</div><div class=3D"">2) If you wanted policy at the receiving MCP, =
implicit mode would allow this</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Additionally, the MP_PREFER_PROXY =
option allows policy at the sending MCP in implicit mode.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What I=E2=80=99m trying =
to get at is whether there are any actual deployment situations where =
this model is necessary?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Alan</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
28 Mar 2017, at 13:09, <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Hi =
Alan,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Please see inline.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Med<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>lundi 27 mars 2017 15:49<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Right, so:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">1) if you had policy =
at the sending MCP (CPE) it would need explicit mode.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med: Not necessarily. Policies to elect flows can be =
provisioned on the CPE for both explicit/implicit modes. Traffic =
selection and traffic distribution logic is a common building block, if =
you will, for all modes. Please refer to the nam-deployment draft.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2) If you had policy at the receiving MCP =
it could be done with implicit mode.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] I=E2=80=99m not sure =
to get this one. Do you mean policies for incoming connections?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">So the case where this is useful is if =
you have policy at the sending MCP but need to be using implicit mode. =
Is that right? Why would such a use case exist which could not be solved =
with either of the other two solutions above?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
27 Mar 2017, at 13:46,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Hi Alan,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Please =
see inline.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan Ford [<a href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
18:44<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">What connections do you envisage&nbsp;<i =
class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on them?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] MPTCP connections =
issued from a host in the LAN. A default policy configured to a CPE =
would be that these connections need to bypass the network-assisted =
MPTCP service.&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Could =
you please expand on this? Which connections would get network-assisted =
MPTCP and which would not? Why treat some different from others?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] This is policy-based (Section 5.6.3 of =
draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations). Policies to determine =
connections that are eligible to the network-assisted MPTCP can be =
provided by the network provider, configured locally on the CPE by a =
user, etc. It is perfectly fine for a network provider to provision a =
default policy to let pass all MPTCP connections received from the LAN =
side without any help form an MCP. Other policies can be provisioned to =
MCPs. &nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Alan<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
24 Mar 2017, at 12:37,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Re-,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Please =
see inline.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
13:17<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Hi Med,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks=
 for the reply. I remain confused however with this:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Just insert MCP =
into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the second one is that MCP resources =
usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like to dedicate =
these resources to the connections it proxies. Further, because =
=E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D there =
will be MCPs that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the =
MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts =
to bypass this MCP.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">What connections do you envisage<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><i =
class=3D"">not</i>&nbsp;getting a MP_PREFER_PROXY signal on them?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] MPTCP connections =
issued from a host in the LAN. A default policy configured to a CPE =
would be that these connections need to bypass the network-assisted =
MPTCP service.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
24 Mar 2017, at 07:02, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"=
 style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">Hi =
Alan,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Please see inline.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Med</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div=
 style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Alan Ford [<a =
href=3D"mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:alan.ford@gmail.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>vendredi 24 mars 2017 =
00:40<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>BOUCADAIR Mohamed =
IMT/OLN<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [multipathtcp] New =
Version Notification for =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Med, all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks for this, and I=E2=80=99m sorry it=E2=80=99s taken a =
couple of weeks to respond. This document is certainly clearer to follow =
than previous versions and it=E2=80=99s clearer where you=E2=80=99re =
going with this now. You have two different ways of implementing MPTCP =
proxying which work in different deployment scenarios.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">My main concern remains the need for this =
MP_PREFER_PROXY option.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">The use =
case as I see it is for the CPE acting as an MCP to insert this into the =
flow in order to signal for the other MCP to pick up the flow and proxy =
it.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] Yes.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">But I still find myself =
asking<i class=3D"">&nbsp;why?</i></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">[Med] Fair question.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Why is this solution uniquely better than either:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Explicitly address the MCP using =
MP_CONVERT;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The implicit mode is something that can =
be easily implemented compared to the explicit mode even if it comes =
with its constraints (e.g., location of the MCP, ..). Our approach here =
is not mandate the deployment scheme and let operators to make their =
choice.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;or</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">- Just insert MCP into everything which doesn=E2=80=99t =
support MPTCP anyway<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D"">[Med] The problem with the second one is that =
MCP resources usage won=E2=80=99t be optimized: an operator would like =
to dedicate these resources to the connections it proxies. Further, =
because =E2=80=9Ceverything doesn=E2=80=99t support MPTCP anyway=E2=80=9D =
there will be MCPs that will strip by default MP_CAPABLE. So, having the =
MP_PREFER_PROXY signal will help MPTCP connections issued from endhosts =
to bypass this MCP.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">This would potentially require DHCP to deliver the MCP =
address for point 1, and potential policy configuration as to what to =
proxy and what not to for point 2, but are these significant issues? =
What sort of policy would a client be able to apply which a proxy would =
not be able to? And are there any scenarios why the MP_PREFER_PROXY bit =
is the only way of achieving what you want?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Given =
this option is now a separate option and not a bit in the MP_CAPABLE =
handshake I am less concerned about its impact on the base protocol =
spec, since this can be kept entirely separate, but I am still puzzled =
as to the actual real-world requirements of this rather than the other =
two options.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">As a side issue, and not to derail this conversation, I=E2=80=99=
d rather the term =E2=80=9CMP_CONVERT" didn=E2=80=99t look quite so much =
like an MPTCP option when it wasn=E2=80=99t.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Alan<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:43,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Dear all,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">A new version of the draft is available online. This version =
integrates the comments that were raised on the mailing list.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">We had many =
off-line discussions with Alan, this version is the outcome of those =
discussion. The main changes are:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">* =
MP_CONVERT object does not consume anymore the MPTCP option codepoints =
space.<br class=3D"">* A new MPTCP option (MP_PREFER_PROXY) is defined =
to demux native connections vs proxied one when the implicit mode is in =
use.<br class=3D"">* MCPs are now able to detect if remote MCPs do not =
support MP_CONVERT<br class=3D"">* Only TCP is covered<br class=3D"">* =
Interference with TFO are discussed<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Comments, questions, and suggestions are always welcome.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers,<br class=3D"">Med<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">-----Message d'origine-----<br class=3D"">De&nbsp;:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a>]<br =
class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;: vendredi 10 mars 2017 08:52<br =
class=3D"">=C3=80&nbsp;: Wim Henderickx; Luis M. Contreras;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano.secci@lip6.fr" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">stefano.secci@lip6.fr</span></a>; Wouter<br =
class=3D"">Cloetens; Suresh Vinapamula; Denis Behaghel; BOUCADAIR =
Mohamed IMT/OLN;<br class=3D"">Suresh Vinapamula; Robert Skog; Luis =
Contreras; JACQUENET Christian<br class=3D"">IMT/OLN; Bart Peirens; =
Ullrich Meyer; Denis Behaghel; Olivier Bonaventure;<br class=3D"">SungHoon=
 Seo; Stefano Secci<br class=3D"">Objet&nbsp;: New Version Notification =
for draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-<br class=3D"">10.txt<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A new version of I-D, =
draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">has been =
successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the<br =
class=3D"">IETF repository.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Name:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-m=
ode<br class=3D"">Revision:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>10<br class=3D"">Title:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP Deployment Models<br class=3D"">Document =
date:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2017-03-09<br =
class=3D"">Group:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Individual =
Submission<br class=3D"">Pages:<span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>25<br =
class=3D"">URL: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-</span></a=
><br class=3D"">mptcp-plain-mode-10.txt<br class=3D"">Status: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-mptcp-</span><=
/a><br class=3D"">plain-mode/<br class=3D"">Htmlized: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-</span>=
</a><br class=3D"">mode-10<br class=3D"">Diff: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-mptcp-</spa=
n></a><br class=3D"">plain-mode-10<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Because of the lack of =
Multipath TCP (MPTCP) support at the server<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;side, some service providers now consider a =
network-assisted model<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;that relies upon the =
activation of a dedicated function called MPTCP<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Conversion Point (MCP). &nbsp;Network-Assisted =
MPTCP deployment models are<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;designed to =
facilitate the adoption of MPTCP for the establishment of<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;multi-path communications without making any =
assumption about the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;support of MPTCP by the =
communicating peers. &nbsp;MCPs located in the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;network are responsible for establishing =
multi-path communications on<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;behalf of =
endpoints, thereby taking advantage of MPTCP capabilities<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;to achieve different goals that include (but are =
not limited to)<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;optimization of resource usage =
(e.g., bandwidth aggregation), of<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;resiliency =
(e.g., primary/backup communication paths), and traffic<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;offload management.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;This document specifies extensions for =
Network-Assisted MPTCP<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;deployment models.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of<br class=3D"">submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized =
version and diff are available at<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</span></a>.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
IETF Secretariat<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">multipathtcp@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp</span></a><o=
:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><d=
iv class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><d=
iv class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b=
r class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: imed eddine Bezahaf <ibezahaf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 09:30:05 +0200
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Fwd: MPTCP Performance in Data Centers
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Hello,

I am conducting a master thesis that has the following purpose: "To improve
MPTCP performances in data centers  by orchestrating  path assignment for
MPTCP flows(subflows) using SDN(Openflow)".

During my thesis I have noticed that even though I assign subflows to paths
where the throughput for every MPTCP flow should be fair (disjointing
subflows belonging to the same flow passing through the same path and make
sure that every link contain the same number of subflows), some flows might
actually achieve higher throughput than others. So my question is how fair
is the sharing of bandwidth among MPTCP subflows and not standard TCP
steams since in my thesis I assume that all the servers in the datacenter
support fully MPTCP.

I tried to look for an answer by searching in current works and paper
however I did not really find an explanation. Because all works related to
MPTCP and fairness are actually comparing throughput of MPTCP flows with
TCP streams (non-aggressive) in shared bottlenecks but never a comparison
between MPTCP flows only.

So I did an evaluation using mininet which is a network emulator to emulate
a 4 ary FatTree network but each host has 2 interfaces, so instead of
having 16 hosts, I have 8 hosts (with two interfaces). (Figure_1)

The traffic pattern is as follow:
H1 -> H8  (Two flows ): H1 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towards H8
H2 -> H7  (Two flows ): H2 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towards H7
H3 -> H6  (Two flows ): H3 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towards H6
H4 -> H5  (Two flows ): H4 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towards H5

So each pair of hosts open two MPTCP transmissions (all of them
simultaneously). In other words, 8 flows start at the same time.

Note: each flow has 4 subflows (I also tried with two subflows, it is a
little bit "fair" than 4 subflows but it follows the same curve)

Path characteristics: all links of the fattree have the same delay(100
microseconds) and the bandwidth is 5 Mbps.

I plotted a graph where you have in the y axis a normalized throughput (1
means a flow have achieved 10 Mbps (since two interfaces and each link has
5 Mbps)) and in the x axis, all the flows (8) ranked by order. Figure 2.

So my questions are:
Is this fair? half of the flows have between  (50%-60%) and half (40%-50%)
even though I am making sure that every subflow share the same number of
flows along its path. Figure3 shows a specific communication between H4-H5
(MPTCP 2 subflows) to give you an idea about how paths are assigned.
Note: I tested this with CUBIC, BALIA, OLIA, LIA, WVEGAS, all bring out
this same result.

Note: the flow size is identical for each one and it is 10 Mbytes and as I
mentioned previously the bandwidth of every link is 5 Mbps.


I would be very grateful and appreciative if you can help me out understand
this behavior or explain this graph if it is possible of course.

Thank you again,
Imed.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Hello,</span=
></div><span class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><=
br></span><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I am conducting a master thesis t=
hat has the following purpose: &quot;To improve MPTCP performances in data =
centers =C2=A0by orchestrating =C2=A0path assignment for MPTCP flows(subflo=
ws) using SDN(Openflow)&quot;.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></d=
iv><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">During my thesis I have noticed that eve=
n though I assign subflows to paths where the throughput for every MPTCP fl=
ow should be fair (disjointing subflows belonging to the same flow passing =
through the same path and make sure that every link contain the same number=
 of subflows), some flows might actually achieve higher throughput than oth=
ers. So my question is how fair is the sharing of bandwidth among MPTCP sub=
flows and not standard TCP steams since in my thesis I assume that all the =
servers in the datacenter support fully MPTCP.</div><div style=3D"font-size=
:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I tried to look for an a=
nswer by searching in current works and paper however I did not really find=
 an explanation. Because all works related to MPTCP and fairness are actual=
ly comparing throughput of MPTCP flows with TCP streams (non-aggressive) in=
 shared bottlenecks but never a comparison between MPTCP flows only.</div><=
div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">So=
 I did an evaluation using mininet which is a network emulator to emulate a=
 4 ary FatTree network but each host has 2 interfaces, so instead of having=
 16 hosts, I have 8 hosts (with two interfaces). (Figure_1)</div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">The traffic=
 pattern is as follow:</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">H1 -&gt; H8 =C2=
=A0(Two flows ): H1 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towards H8</div><div=
 style=3D"font-size:12.8px">H2 -&gt; H7 =C2=A0(Two flows ): H2 sends two si=
multaneous MPTCP flows towards H7<br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=
H3 -&gt; H6 =C2=A0(Two flows ): H3 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towar=
ds H6<br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">H4 -&gt; H5 =C2=A0(Two flows=
 ): H4 sends two simultaneous MPTCP flows towards H5<br></div><div style=3D=
"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">So each pair o=
f hosts open two MPTCP transmissions (all of them simultaneously). In other=
 words, 8 flows start at the same time.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-size:=
12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Note: each flow has 4 sub=
flows (I also tried with two subflows, it is a little bit &quot;fair&quot; =
than 4 subflows but it follows the same curve)</div><div style=3D"font-size=
:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Path characteristics: al=
l links of the fattree have the same delay(100 microseconds) and the bandwi=
dth is 5 Mbps.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"font-size:12.8px">I plotted a graph where you have in the y axis a normali=
zed throughput (1 means a flow have achieved 10 Mbps (since two interfaces =
and each link has 5 Mbps)) and in the x axis, all the flows (8) ranked by o=
rder. Figure 2.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">So my questions are:</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.=
8px">Is this fair? half of the flows have between =C2=A0(50%-60%) and half =
(40%-50%) even though I am making sure that every subflow share the same nu=
mber of flows along its path. Figure3 shows a specific communication betwee=
n H4-H5 (MPTCP 2 subflows) to give you an idea about how paths are assigned=
.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Note: I tested this with CUBIC=
, BALIA, OLIA, LIA, WVEGAS, all bring out this same result.</div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Note: the f=
low size is identical for each one and it is 10 Mbytes and as I mentioned p=
reviously the bandwidth of every link is 5 Mbps.</div><div style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">I would be very grateful and appreciative if you can =
help me out understand this behavior or explain this graph if it is possibl=
e of course.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px">Thank you again,</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Imed=
.</div></div>
</span></div><br></div>
</div><br></div>

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Subject: [multipathtcp] slides for presentation
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Hello,
If you're going to have a presentation at the Chicago meeting, please send
your sides by this evening. We appreciate your cooperation!

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil

--94eb2c04fb4a18c2db054bce1a4a
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<div dir="ltr">Hello,<div>If you&#39;re going to have a presentation at the Chicago meeting, please send your sides by this evening. We appreciate your cooperation!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>--</div><div>Yoshi &amp; Phil</div></div>

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From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:59:52 -0700
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
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Hi Med,

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 5:20 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Yoshi,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 27 mars 2017 16:18
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> *Cc :* Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
> *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 12:32 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Re-,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 27 mars 2017 13:21
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> *Cc :* Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
> *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mode)
>
>
>
> Hi Olivier, Med,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the response. I have been thinking that it would be better if
> we can classify our use cases so that we can have clear vision for what t=
o
> solve. Things I may want to classify is:
>
>    a) solutions requires changes in only MPTCP or in TCP general
>
>    b) solutions requires proxies to be on-path or solutions that work wit=
h
> off-path proxy.
>
>
>
> We can think about the solutions for a) if we think it's necessary, but I
> am thinking that the proper venue for the discussion might not be this WG=
.
>
>
>
> I think the approach Med mentioned requires the proxy to be on-path, so I
> would like to classify it as an on-path solution.
>
> [Med] I=E2=80=99m not sure to follow you here. What I described is aligne=
d with
> the target dual proxy case (https://tools.ietf.org/html/
> draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-considerations-01#section-4.2): the first
> proxy is embedded on a CPE. There is no technical problem there to
> intercept the traffic to be proxyied given that the CPE sees all the
> traffic.
>
>
>
> Well, this classification might be a bit different from the way described
> in the draft.
>
> What I meant for off-path (explicit) case is the cases where the proxy is
> not on the path between client and server. No more and no less.
>
> [Med] I see. As you can read in the plain mode draft, implicit/explicit
> thing is drawn from the perspective of the MCP located at the network
> provider side.
>

I think I understand the perspective.
I am thinking that if we don't combine explicit mode and off-path, it will
be less confusing (at least to me)
In my understanding, explicit mode can be used for off-path (probably for
single proxy case) and on-path (probably for 2 proxy case)
Implicit mode probably will be used for on-path case only.

--
Yoshi

--001a1137281cebc717054bd26a22
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 5:20 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadai=
r@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-3964432498796312299WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Yoshi,<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=
=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0=
cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Yosh=
ifumi Nishida [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_=
blank">nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp</a><wbr>]
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 27 mars 2017 16:18<span class=3D""><br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mod=
e)<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 12:32 PM, &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orang=
e.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Re-,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Yosh=
ifumi Nishida [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_=
blank">nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp</a><wbr>]
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 27 mars 2017 13:21<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [multipathtcp] q about off-path proxy (explicit mod=
e)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Olivier, Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the response. I have been thinking that i=
t would be better if we can classify our use cases so that we can have clea=
r vision for what to solve. Things I may want to classify
 is:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0a) solutions requires changes in only M=
PTCP or in TCP general<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0b) solutions requires proxies to be on-=
path or solutions that work with off-path proxy.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We can think about the solutions for a) if we think =
it&#39;s necessary, but I am thinking that the proper venue for the discuss=
ion might not be this WG.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the approach Med mentioned requires the prox=
y to be on-path, so I would like to classify it as an on-path solution.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] I=E2=80=99m not sure to f=
ollow you here. What I described is aligned with the target dual proxy case
 (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-conside=
rations-01#section-4.2" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>=
draft-nam-mptcp-deployment-<wbr>considerations-01#section-4.2</a>)<wbr>: th=
e first proxy is embedded on a CPE. There is no technical
 problem there to intercept the traffic to be proxyied given that the CPE s=
ees all the traffic.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Well, this classification might be a bit different f=
rom the way described in the draft.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What I meant for off-path (explicit) case is the cas=
es where the proxy is not on the path between client and server. No more an=
d no less.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] I see. As you can =
read in the plain mode draft, implicit/explicit thing is drawn from the per=
spective of the MCP located at the network provider side.
 =C2=A0=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>I think I understand the perspective.</div><div>I a=
m thinking that if we don&#39;t combine explicit mode and off-path, it will=
 be less confusing (at least to me)<br></div><div>In my understanding, expl=
icit mode can be used for off-path (probably for single proxy case) and on-=
path (probably for 2 proxy case)</div><div>Implicit mode probably will be u=
sed for on-path case only.</div><div><br></div><div>--</div><div>Yoshi</div=
></div></div></div>

--001a1137281cebc717054bd26a22--


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Hi,=20

I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one in the=
 home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network, both u=
nder the control of the operator. And looking at the 'explicit mode' scenar=
io, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is not on the =
default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway proxy is on the de=
fault path)

Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.

Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone scenario -  sorry if=
 your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm just creating confusion=
) that there are different variants of SOCKS that can be used, which mainly=
 depend on the number of messages that are used to authenticate.
In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to assume that the home=
 gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So a non-chatty versi=
on would be ok.

Is that right?

Thanks
phil


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From: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 03:16:35 +0000
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To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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--001a11c17e88a85370054bd601a9
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Hi Olivier,

Are these really mutually exclusive options? Relaxing the 7323 requirement
seems the right thing to do anyway; adding an option is a nice extra for
people that need TS for measurements other than PAWS.

But we could in theory put timestamp negotiation in MP_CAPABLE so we define
what it means for one end to require timestamps, and then use regular TCP
timestamps - no need for it to be a MPTCP option.

Or we could say that MP_CAPABLE + Timestamp = TS required. Then that makes
it negotiable; 6824bis would be changing the semantics of the presence of
today's TS option.

Regards,
Alan

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 at 09:34, Olivier Bonaventure <
Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> The standard timestamp option for TCP is defined in RFC7323. It is
> widely implemented and used. It has two main objectives :
>
> - timing measurements
> - protection agains wrapped sequence numbers
>
>
> Given the importance of the second utilisation, RFC7323 has mandated the
> presence of a timestamp option in each segment once negotiated in the
> three-way handshake. For Multipath TCP, the DSN option already protects
> us from PAWS problems and it should not be mandatory to include
> timestamps in each packet sent over a Multipath TCP connection. Given
> the length of the timestamp and DSN options these two options already
> consume a large number of bytes and could limit the number of SACK
> blocks that can be placed inside acknowledgements.
>
> I will only be able to attend the Chicago meeting remotely, but I would
> like to start a discussion on the utilisation of timestamps by Multipath
> TCP on the list. I see two possibilities, but there are possibly more :
>
> 1. Ask for a revision of RFC7323 that allows timestamp options to be
> optional in packets of Multipath TCP connections
>
> 2. Define a new Multipath TCP option to carry timestamps. The
> utilisation of this option would be included in Multipath TCP and thus
> no option besides MP_CAPABLE would need to be included in the SYN.
>
> Do you have any opinion on these two possibilities ?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Olivier
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>

--001a11c17e88a85370054bd601a9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>Hi Olivier,</div><div><br></div><div>Are these really mutually exclusi=
ve options? Relaxing the 7323 requirement seems the right thing to do anywa=
y; adding an option is a nice extra for people that need TS for measurement=
s other than PAWS.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>But we could in theory pu=
t timestamp negotiation in MP_CAPABLE so we define what it means for one en=
d to require timestamps, and then use regular TCP timestamps - no need for =
it to be a MPTCP option.</div><div><br></div><div>Or we could say that MP_C=
APABLE + Timestamp =3D TS required. Then that makes it negotiable; 6824bis =
would be changing the semantics of the presence of today&#39;s TS option.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Alan</div><div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 at 09:34, Olivier Bonaventur=
e &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be">Olivier.Bonaventu=
re@uclouvain.be</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hell=
o,<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
The standard timestamp option for TCP is defined in RFC7323. It is<br class=
=3D"gmail_msg">
widely implemented and used. It has two main objectives :<br class=3D"gmail=
_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
- timing measurements<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
- protection agains wrapped sequence numbers<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Given the importance of the second utilisation, RFC7323 has mandated the<br=
 class=3D"gmail_msg">
presence of a timestamp option in each segment once negotiated in the<br cl=
ass=3D"gmail_msg">
three-way handshake. For Multipath TCP, the DSN option already protects<br =
class=3D"gmail_msg">
us from PAWS problems and it should not be mandatory to include<br class=3D=
"gmail_msg">
timestamps in each packet sent over a Multipath TCP connection. Given<br cl=
ass=3D"gmail_msg">
the length of the timestamp and DSN options these two options already<br cl=
ass=3D"gmail_msg">
consume a large number of bytes and could limit the number of SACK<br class=
=3D"gmail_msg">
blocks that can be placed inside acknowledgements.<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
I will only be able to attend the Chicago meeting remotely, but I would<br =
class=3D"gmail_msg">
like to start a discussion on the utilisation of timestamps by Multipath<br=
 class=3D"gmail_msg">
TCP on the list. I see two possibilities, but there are possibly more :<br =
class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
1. Ask for a revision of RFC7323 that allows timestamp options to be<br cla=
ss=3D"gmail_msg">
optional in packets of Multipath TCP connections<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
2. Define a new Multipath TCP option to carry timestamps. The<br class=3D"g=
mail_msg">
utilisation of this option would be included in Multipath TCP and thus<br c=
lass=3D"gmail_msg">
no option besides MP_CAPABLE would need to be included in the SYN.<br class=
=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Do you have any opinion on these two possibilities ?<br class=3D"gmail_msg"=
>
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Thanks<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Olivier<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
multipathtcp mailing list<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" class=3D"gmail_msg" target=3D"_bla=
nk">multipathtcp@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" rel=3D"noref=
errer" class=3D"gmail_msg" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/multipathtcp</a><br class=3D"gmail_msg">
</blockquote></div></div>

--001a11c17e88a85370054bd601a9--


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From: "Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" <michael.scharf@nokia.com>
To: Alan Ford <alan.ford@gmail.com>, "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/Bj55xN-jeWAY-wFX8Z2d5fdK31o>
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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--_000_AM5PR0701MB2547B76C59F7874285B22C8193350AM5PR0701MB2547_--


From nobody Wed Mar 29 04:30:32 2017
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:30:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Hi Phil,=20

Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty version"? version of =
what?

You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about the number of m=
essages that are required before sending actual traffic when SOCKSv5 is use=
d.=20

Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an initial subflo=
w using SOCKSv5:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
(MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
                   <- TCP SYN/ACK <-=20
                   ->    TCP ACK    ->
                   -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
                   <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
                    <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
                    ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
                    -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
                    <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
                    <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
                    ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
                    -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) -> (MCP)
                    <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <- (MCP)
                                                          (MCP)  -> TCP SYN=
 (k) -> (Server)
                                                          (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK=
 (l) <- (Server)
                    <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-(MCP) -> TCP ACK=
 (m) -> (Server)
                    ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling approach with MP_=
CONVERT IE.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de
> philip.eardley@bt.com
> Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24
> =C0=A0: multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one in
> the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network,
> both under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'explicit mode=
'
> scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is not
> on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway proxy is
> on the default path)
>=20
> Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
>=20
> Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone scenario -  sorry
> if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm just creating
> confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that can be used,
> which mainly depend on the number of messages that are used to
> authenticate.
> In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to assume that the
> home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So a non-chatty
> version would be ok.
>=20
> Is that right?
>=20
> Thanks
> phil
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
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From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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Yoshifumi,
>
> I personally prefer 1, but I might prefer some generic framework as I am
> guessing there will be other cases that we don't want timestamps for PAWS.
>
> BTW, are we sure that DSN option can provide protections against PAWS?
> We cannot guarantee DSN option appears on all segments..

If there is a valid DSS option, either DSN mapping or DSN ack, then the 
segment cannot be a replay of an old segment. If we use long mappings, 
then there are two different situations :

- long mapping but TSO copies the DSS option inside each packet
- long mapping and no TSO

In the second case, we need to ensure that each packet contains some 
information that allows to support PAWS. DSS and timestamp would work


Olivier


From nobody Wed Mar 29 08:12:50 2017
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the authentication mess=
ages. After all, the home gateway and network proxy can be expected to know=
 about each other already - at least don't need to do for every new TCP con=
nection from devices behind home gateway

-----Original Message-----
From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]=20
Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>; multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)

Hi Phil,=20

Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty version"? version of =
what?

You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about the number of m=
essages that are required before sending actual traffic when SOCKSv5 is use=
d.=20

Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an initial subflo=
w using SOCKSv5:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
(MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
                   <- TCP SYN/ACK <-=20
                   ->    TCP ACK    ->
                   -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
                   <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
                    <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
                    ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
                    -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
                    <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
                    <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
                    ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
                    -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) -> (MCP)
                    <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <- (MCP)
                                                          (MCP)  -> TCP SYN=
 (k) -> (Server)
                                                          (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK=
 (l) <- (Server)
                    <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-(MCP) -> TCP ACK=
 (m) -> (Server)
                    ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling approach with MP_=
CONVERT IE.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de=
=20
> philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24 =C0=A0:=20
> multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet=A0: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario=20
> (network proxy off path)
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one=20
> in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the=20
> network, both under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'expl=
icit mode'
> scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is=20
> not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway=20
> proxy is on the default path)
>=20
> Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
>=20
> Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone scenario - =20
> sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm just=20
> creating
> confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that can be=20
> used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that are used to=20
> authenticate.
> In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to assume that the=20
> home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So a=20
> non-chatty version would be ok.
>=20
> Is that right?
>=20
> Thanks
> phil
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:14:56 -0500
From: Christoph Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com>
To: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
Cc: multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Timestamp option for Multipath TCP
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Hello Olivier,


On 23/03/17 - 15:33:57, Olivier Bonaventure wrote:
> The standard timestamp option for TCP is defined in RFC7323. It is widely
> implemented and used. It has two main objectives :
> 
> - timing measurements
> - protection agains wrapped sequence numbers
> 
> 
> Given the importance of the second utilisation, RFC7323 has mandated the
> presence of a timestamp option in each segment once negotiated in the
> three-way handshake. For Multipath TCP, the DSN option already protects us
> from PAWS problems and it should not be mandatory to include timestamps in
> each packet sent over a Multipath TCP connection. Given the length of the
> timestamp and DSN options these two options already consume a large number
> of bytes and could limit the number of SACK blocks that can be placed inside
> acknowledgements.
> 
> I will only be able to attend the Chicago meeting remotely, but I would like
> to start a discussion on the utilisation of timestamps by Multipath TCP on
> the list. I see two possibilities, but there are possibly more :
> 
> 1. Ask for a revision of RFC7323 that allows timestamp options to be
> optional in packets of Multipath TCP connections

if we do this, how would MPTCP decide whether or not to put a TS-option in
the segment? And will this decision-process still allow to be fully protected
against PAWS (when TSO-is used and the DSS-option does not end up on every
segment)?

I can't think of a way to achieve this, because whenever we would decide to not put
a TS-option, later on after 2^32-bytes this original data might be subject
to being the "victim" of PAWS, even if we then switch into a mode where we
use TS.

> 2. Define a new Multipath TCP option to carry timestamps. The utilisation of
> this option would be included in Multipath TCP and thus no option besides
> MP_CAPABLE would need to be included in the SYN.

I like this approach, because it seems to me to consume less option-space.

How would this timestamp look like in the DSS-option? Would it still be 32-bits?
I think we can make it less than 32-bits, right?


Christoph


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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:31:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Re-,

Thank you for the clarification. There is no such standard non-chatty SOCKS=
 specifications.=20

You are completely right that authorization is not needed for every connect=
ion coming from the same CPE. But SOCKSv5 does not allow for relaxing that.=
=20

As discussed in the nam-deployment draft, there are alternate approaches to=
 achieve authorization without even implying an explicit exchange between t=
he CPE and the MCP.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 10:13
> =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>=20
> By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the authentication
> messages. After all, the home gateway and network proxy can be expected t=
o
> know about each other already - at least don't need to do for every new
> TCP connection from devices behind home gateway
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
> Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
> To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>;
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>=20
> Hi Phil,
>=20
> Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty version"? version o=
f
> what?
>=20
> You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about the number of
> messages that are required before sending actual traffic when SOCKSv5 is
> used.
>=20
> Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an initial
> subflow using SOCKSv5:
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
>                    <- TCP SYN/ACK <-
>                    ->    TCP ACK    ->
>                    -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
>                    <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
>                     <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
>                     ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
>                     -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
>                     <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
>                     <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
>                     ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
>                     -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) -> (MCP)
>                     <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <- (MCP)
>                                                           (MCP)  -> TCP
> SYN (k) -> (Server)
>                                                           (MCP)  <-
> SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
>                     <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-(MCP) -> TCP
> ACK (m) -> (Server)
>                     ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling approach with
> MP_CONVERT IE.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part d=
e
> > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24 =C0=A0:
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet=A0: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario
> > (network proxy off path)
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one
> > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the
> > network, both under the control of the operator. And looking at the
> 'explicit mode'
> > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is
> > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway
> > proxy is on the default path)
> >
> > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
> >
> > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone scenario -
> > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm just
> > creating
> > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that can be
> > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that are used to
> > authenticate.
> > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to assume that the
> > home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So a
> > non-chatty version would be ok.
> >
> > Is that right?
> >
> > Thanks
> > phil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > multipathtcp mailing list
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:39:01 -0500
From: Christoph Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com>
To: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
Cc: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Hello Wim,

inline:

On 29/03/17 - 15:29:04, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> Phil, you will be a bit more optimal but not a lot as you can see or you end up changing the SOCKs protocol. Even if you do this MP_CONVERT IE will always be the most optimal and hence this is what we propose for doing this proxy function.
> 
> On 29/03/2017, 10:12, "multipathtcp on behalf of philip.eardley@bt.com" <multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of philip.eardley@bt.com> wrote:
> 
>     By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the authentication messages. After all, the home gateway and network proxy can be expected to know about each other already - at least don't need to do for every new TCP connection from devices behind home gateway
>     
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] 
>     Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
>     To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>; multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>     
>     Hi Phil, 
>     
>     Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty version"? version of what?
>     
>     You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about the number of messages that are required before sending actual traffic when SOCKSv5 is used. 
>     
>     Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an initial subflow using SOCKSv5:
>     
>     ==============
>     (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
>                        <- TCP SYN/ACK <- 
>                        ->    TCP ACK    ->
>                        -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->

you would of course use TFO with SOCKS, so that you gain one RTT.

If then in addition to that you remove the authentication part of SOCKS, and
you can even put the payload right after the SOCKS Connection Request inside
the SYN-payload, then you are effectively also at a 0-RTT connection
establishment.


Christoph


>                        <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
>                         <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
>                         ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
>                         -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
>                         <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
>                         <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
>                         ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
>                         -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) -> (MCP)
>                         <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <- (MCP)
>                                                               (MCP)  -> TCP SYN (k) -> (Server)
>                                                               (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
>                         <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-(MCP) -> TCP ACK (m) -> (Server)
>                         ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
>     =================
>     
>     I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling approach with MP_CONVERT IE. 
>     
>     Cheers,
>     Med
>     
>     > -----Message d'origine-----
>     > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de 
>     > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoyé : mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24 À : 
>     > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario 
>     > (network proxy off path)
>     > 
>     > Hi,
>     > 
>     > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one 
>     > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the 
>     > network, both under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'explicit mode'
>     > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is 
>     > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway 
>     > proxy is on the default path)
>     > 
>     > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
>     > 
>     > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone scenario -  
>     > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm just 
>     > creating
>     > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that can be 
>     > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that are used to 
>     > authenticate.
>     > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to assume that the 
>     > home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So a 
>     > non-chatty version would be ok.
>     > 
>     > Is that right?
>     > 
>     > Thanks
>     > phil
>     > 
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > multipathtcp mailing list
>     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>     
>     _______________________________________________
>     multipathtcp mailing list
>     multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>     
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
To: Christoph Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com>
CC: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:46:52 -0500
From: Christoph Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com>
To: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
Cc: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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On 29/03/17 - 15:42:59, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> Christoph, yes but again it something new and less optimal from the proposed MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN.

No, that's what I wrote below. It's not less optimal. It's exactly the same in
terms of performance as MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN!


Christoph


> 
> On 29/03/2017, 10:39, "cpaasch@apple.com on behalf of Christoph Paasch" <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
> 
>     Hello Wim,
>     
>     inline:
>     
>     On 29/03/17 - 15:29:04, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
>     > Phil, you will be a bit more optimal but not a lot as you can see or you end up changing the SOCKs protocol. Even if you do this MP_CONVERT IE will always be the most optimal and hence this is what we propose for doing this proxy function.
>     > 
>     > On 29/03/2017, 10:12, "multipathtcp on behalf of philip.eardley@bt.com" <multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of philip.eardley@bt.com> wrote:
>     > 
>     >     By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the authentication messages. After all, the home gateway and network proxy can be expected to know about each other already - at least don't need to do for every new TCP connection from devices behind home gateway
>     >     
>     >     -----Original Message-----
>     >     From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] 
>     >     Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
>     >     To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>; multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     >     Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>     >     
>     >     Hi Phil, 
>     >     
>     >     Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty version"? version of what?
>     >     
>     >     You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about the number of messages that are required before sending actual traffic when SOCKSv5 is used. 
>     >     
>     >     Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an initial subflow using SOCKSv5:
>     >     
>     >     ==============
>     >     (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
>     >                        <- TCP SYN/ACK <- 
>     >                        ->    TCP ACK    ->
>     >                        -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
>     
>     you would of course use TFO with SOCKS, so that you gain one RTT.
>     
>     If then in addition to that you remove the authentication part of SOCKS, and
>     you can even put the payload right after the SOCKS Connection Request inside
>     the SYN-payload, then you are effectively also at a 0-RTT connection
>     establishment.
>     
>     
>     Christoph
>     
>     
>     >                        <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
>     >                         <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
>     >                         ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
>     >                         -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
>     >                         <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
>     >                         <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
>     >                         ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
>     >                         -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) -> (MCP)
>     >                         <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <- (MCP)
>     >                                                               (MCP)  -> TCP SYN (k) -> (Server)
>     >                                                               (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
>     >                         <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-(MCP) -> TCP ACK (m) -> (Server)
>     >                         ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
>     >     =================
>     >     
>     >     I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling approach with MP_CONVERT IE. 
>     >     
>     >     Cheers,
>     >     Med
>     >     
>     >     > -----Message d'origine-----
>     >     > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de 
>     >     > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoyé : mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24 À : 
>     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario 
>     >     > (network proxy off path)
>     >     > 
>     >     > Hi,
>     >     > 
>     >     > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one 
>     >     > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the 
>     >     > network, both under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'explicit mode'
>     >     > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is 
>     >     > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway 
>     >     > proxy is on the default path)
>     >     > 
>     >     > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone scenario -  
>     >     > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm just 
>     >     > creating
>     >     > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that can be 
>     >     > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that are used to 
>     >     > authenticate.
>     >     > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to assume that the 
>     >     > home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So a 
>     >     > non-chatty version would be ok.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Is that right?
>     >     > 
>     >     > Thanks
>     >     > phil
>     >     > 
>     >     > _______________________________________________
>     >     > multipathtcp mailing list
>     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>     >     
>     >     _______________________________________________
>     >     multipathtcp mailing list
>     >     multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>     >     
>     > 
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > multipathtcp mailing list
>     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>     
> 


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Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "cpaasch@apple.com" <cpaasch@apple.com>, "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
CC: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:13:18 +0000
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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com> <20170329154652.GG2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Christoph,

If you remove the initial TCP connection,
If you remove the authentication negotiation,
If you include the payload of the original SYN as part of the NEW SOCKS req=
uest

You are just cloning the MP_CONVERT behavior by overloading SOCKS semantic =
without providing an extra feature compared to the MP_CONVERT.

For the particular case of IPv6 when source address/prefix preservation is =
required, I don't see how this can be supported by SOCKS. Of course, you ca=
n modify the SOCKS command to clone MP_CONVERT :)=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: cpaasch@apple.com [mailto:cpaasch@apple.com]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 10:47
> =C0=A0: Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
> Cc=A0: philip.eardley@bt.com; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN;
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>=20
> On 29/03/17 - 15:42:59, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> > Christoph, yes but again it something new and less optimal from the
> proposed MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN.
>=20
> No, that's what I wrote below. It's not less optimal. It's exactly the
> same in
> terms of performance as MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN!
>=20
>=20
> Christoph
>=20
>=20
> >
> > On 29/03/2017, 10:39, "cpaasch@apple.com on behalf of Christoph Paasch"
> <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
> >
> >     Hello Wim,
> >
> >     inline:
> >
> >     On 29/03/17 - 15:29:04, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> >     > Phil, you will be a bit more optimal but not a lot as you can see
> or you end up changing the SOCKs protocol. Even if you do this MP_CONVERT
> IE will always be the most optimal and hence this is what we propose for
> doing this proxy function.
> >     >
> >     > On 29/03/2017, 10:12, "multipathtcp on behalf of
> philip.eardley@bt.com" <multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of
> philip.eardley@bt.com> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the
> authentication messages. After all, the home gateway and network proxy ca=
n
> be expected to know about each other already - at least don't need to do
> for every new TCP connection from devices behind home gateway
> >     >
> >     >     -----Original Message-----
> >     >     From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
> >     >     Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
> >     >     To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>;
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> >     >     Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
> >     >
> >     >     Hi Phil,
> >     >
> >     >     Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty
> version"? version of what?
> >     >
> >     >     You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about
> the number of messages that are required before sending actual traffic
> when SOCKSv5 is used.
> >     >
> >     >     Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an
> initial subflow using SOCKSv5:
> >     >
> >     >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >     >     (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
> >     >                        <- TCP SYN/ACK <-
> >     >                        ->    TCP ACK    ->
> >     >                        -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
> >
> >     you would of course use TFO with SOCKS, so that you gain one RTT.
> >
> >     If then in addition to that you remove the authentication part of
> SOCKS, and
> >     you can even put the payload right after the SOCKS Connection
> Request inside
> >     the SYN-payload, then you are effectively also at a 0-RTT connectio=
n
> >     establishment.
> >
> >
> >     Christoph
> >
> >
> >     >                        <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
> >     >                         <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
> >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
> >     >                         -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
> >     >                         <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
> >     >                         <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
> >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
> >     >                         -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) ->
> (MCP)
> >     >                         <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <-
> (MCP)
> >     >
> (MCP)  -> TCP SYN (k) -> (Server)
> >     >
> (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
> >     >                         <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-
> (MCP) -> TCP ACK (m) -> (Server)
> >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
> >     >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >     >
> >     >     I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling
> approach with MP_CONVERT IE.
> >     >
> >     >     Cheers,
> >     >     Med
> >     >
> >     >     > -----Message d'origine-----
> >     >     > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De
> la part de
> >     >     > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24 =
=C0 :
> >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] Two proxy
> scenario
> >     >     > (network proxy off path)
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Hi,
> >     >     >
> >     >     > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two
> proxies, one
> >     >     > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one
> in the
> >     >     > network, both under the control of the operator. And lookin=
g
> at the 'explicit mode'
> >     >     > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the networ=
k
> proxy is
> >     >     > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home
> gateway
> >     >     > proxy is on the default path)
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone
> scenario -
> >     >     > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm
> just
> >     >     > creating
> >     >     > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that
> can be
> >     >     > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that ar=
e
> used to
> >     >     > authenticate.
> >     >     > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to
> assume that the
> >     >     > home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. S=
o
> a
> >     >     > non-chatty version would be ok.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Is that right?
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Thanks
> >     >     > phil
> >     >     >
> >     >     > _______________________________________________
> >     >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> >     >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> >     >
> >     >     _______________________________________________
> >     >     multipathtcp mailing list
> >     >     multipathtcp@ietf.org
> >     >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > _______________________________________________
> >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> >
> >


From nobody Wed Mar 29 09:23:34 2017
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:23:27 -0500
From: "cpaasch@apple.com" <cpaasch@apple.com>
To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>, "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com> <20170329154652.GG2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4303A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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On 29/03/17 - 16:13:18, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> Christoph,
> 
> If you remove the initial TCP connection,
> If you remove the authentication negotiation,
> If you include the payload of the original SYN as part of the NEW SOCKS request
> 
> You are just cloning the MP_CONVERT behavior by overloading SOCKS semantic without providing an extra feature compared to the MP_CONVERT.
> 
> For the particular case of IPv6 when source address/prefix preservation is required, I don't see how this can be supported by SOCKS. Of course, you can modify the SOCKS command to clone MP_CONVERT :) 

The point is that we should try to do something that is architecturally clean,
without being closely linked to MPTCP.

Just imagine, if you deploy a proxy that enables the use of TCP-BBR, a
congestion-control that is much better than what servers/clients currently
use. This would also need a 0-RTT proxying solution (even if it is not
using MPTCP).


The point I am trying to make is that a 0-RTT proxying solution is not
something that the MPTCP working-group should be in charge of. There are
other places in the IETF that are probably more appropriate for this.


Christoph

> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : cpaasch@apple.com [mailto:cpaasch@apple.com]
> > Envoyé : mercredi 29 mars 2017 10:47
> > À : Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
> > Cc : philip.eardley@bt.com; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN;
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
> > 
> > On 29/03/17 - 15:42:59, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> > > Christoph, yes but again it something new and less optimal from the
> > proposed MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN.
> > 
> > No, that's what I wrote below. It's not less optimal. It's exactly the
> > same in
> > terms of performance as MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN!
> > 
> > 
> > Christoph
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > On 29/03/2017, 10:39, "cpaasch@apple.com on behalf of Christoph Paasch"
> > <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Hello Wim,
> > >
> > >     inline:
> > >
> > >     On 29/03/17 - 15:29:04, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> > >     > Phil, you will be a bit more optimal but not a lot as you can see
> > or you end up changing the SOCKs protocol. Even if you do this MP_CONVERT
> > IE will always be the most optimal and hence this is what we propose for
> > doing this proxy function.
> > >     >
> > >     > On 29/03/2017, 10:12, "multipathtcp on behalf of
> > philip.eardley@bt.com" <multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of
> > philip.eardley@bt.com> wrote:
> > >     >
> > >     >     By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the
> > authentication messages. After all, the home gateway and network proxy can
> > be expected to know about each other already - at least don't need to do
> > for every new TCP connection from devices behind home gateway
> > >     >
> > >     >     -----Original Message-----
> > >     >     From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
> > >     >     Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
> > >     >     To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>;
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     >     Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
> > >     >
> > >     >     Hi Phil,
> > >     >
> > >     >     Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty
> > version"? version of what?
> > >     >
> > >     >     You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about
> > the number of messages that are required before sending actual traffic
> > when SOCKSv5 is used.
> > >     >
> > >     >     Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create an
> > initial subflow using SOCKSv5:
> > >     >
> > >     >     ==============
> > >     >     (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
> > >     >                        <- TCP SYN/ACK <-
> > >     >                        ->    TCP ACK    ->
> > >     >                        -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
> > >
> > >     you would of course use TFO with SOCKS, so that you gain one RTT.
> > >
> > >     If then in addition to that you remove the authentication part of
> > SOCKS, and
> > >     you can even put the payload right after the SOCKS Connection
> > Request inside
> > >     the SYN-payload, then you are effectively also at a 0-RTT connection
> > >     establishment.
> > >
> > >
> > >     Christoph
> > >
> > >
> > >     >                        <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
> > >     >                         <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
> > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
> > >     >                         -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) ->
> > >     >                         <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
> > >     >                         <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
> > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
> > >     >                         -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) ->
> > (MCP)
> > >     >                         <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <-
> > (MCP)
> > >     >
> > (MCP)  -> TCP SYN (k) -> (Server)
> > >     >
> > (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
> > >     >                         <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-
> > (MCP) -> TCP ACK (m) -> (Server)
> > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
> > >     >     =================
> > >     >
> > >     >     I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling
> > approach with MP_CONVERT IE.
> > >     >
> > >     >     Cheers,
> > >     >     Med
> > >     >
> > >     >     > -----Message d'origine-----
> > >     >     > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De
> > la part de
> > >     >     > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoyé : mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24 À :
> > >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] Two proxy
> > scenario
> > >     >     > (network proxy off path)
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Hi,
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two
> > proxies, one
> > >     >     > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one
> > in the
> > >     >     > network, both under the control of the operator. And looking
> > at the 'explicit mode'
> > >     >     > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network
> > proxy is
> > >     >     > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home
> > gateway
> > >     >     > proxy is on the default path)
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone
> > scenario -
> > >     >     > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I'm
> > just
> > >     >     > creating
> > >     >     > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS that
> > can be
> > >     >     > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that are
> > used to
> > >     >     > authenticate.
> > >     >     > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to
> > assume that the
> > >     >     > home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated. So
> > a
> > >     >     > non-chatty version would be ok.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Is that right?
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Thanks
> > >     >     > phil
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > _______________________________________________
> > >     >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> > >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > >     >
> > >     >     _______________________________________________
> > >     >     multipathtcp mailing list
> > >     >     multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     > _______________________________________________
> > >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> > >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > >
> > >


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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "cpaasch@apple.com" <cpaasch@apple.com>
CC: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>, "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:32:45 +0000
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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com> <20170329154652.GG2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4303A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20170329162327.GH2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Re,

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: cpaasch@apple.com [mailto:cpaasch@apple.com]
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 11:23
> =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> Cc=A0: Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp); philip.eardley@bt.com;
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
>=20
> On 29/03/17 - 16:13:18, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> > Christoph,
> >
> > If you remove the initial TCP connection,
> > If you remove the authentication negotiation,
> > If you include the payload of the original SYN as part of the NEW SOCKS
> request
> >
> > You are just cloning the MP_CONVERT behavior by overloading SOCKS
> semantic without providing an extra feature compared to the MP_CONVERT.
> >
> > For the particular case of IPv6 when source address/prefix preservation
> is required, I don't see how this can be supported by SOCKS. Of course,
> you can modify the SOCKS command to clone MP_CONVERT :)
>=20
> The point is that we should try to do something that is architecturally
> clean,
> without being closely linked to MPTCP.

[Med] MP_CONVERT is defined as an Information Element; not an MPTCP option.=
 The documents we are discussing in MPTCP are specifying the use of this IE=
 for MPTCP proxying purposes. This is the only case we have today for it.

>=20
> Just imagine, if you deploy a proxy that enables the use of TCP-BBR, a
> congestion-control that is much better than what servers/clients currentl=
y
> use. This would also need a 0-RTT proxying solution (even if it is not
> using MPTCP).

[Med] I agree. MP_CONVERT can be used in that context. Interested parties c=
an edit a document to describe the MP_CONVERT IE applicability for that use=
 case. This is not precluded if there is interest.
=20
>=20
>=20
> The point I am trying to make is that a 0-RTT proxying solution is not
> something that the MPTCP working-group should be in charge of. There are
> other places in the IETF that are probably more appropriate for this.
>=20
[Med] MPTCP is the place where **MPTCP** proxy is to be specified. 0-RTT is=
 a concern for all transport protocol designs. Endorsing an MPTCP proxy des=
ign that increases the delay of establishing proxyied connections by severa=
l tens of ms is a no starter.=20

>=20
> Christoph
>=20
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De=A0: cpaasch@apple.com [mailto:cpaasch@apple.com]
> > > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 10:47
> > > =C0=A0: Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
> > > Cc=A0: philip.eardley@bt.com; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN;
> > > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > > Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off pa=
th)
> > >
> > > On 29/03/17 - 15:42:59, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> > > > Christoph, yes but again it something new and less optimal from the
> > > proposed MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN.
> > >
> > > No, that's what I wrote below. It's not less optimal. It's exactly th=
e
> > > same in
> > > terms of performance as MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN!
> > >
> > >
> > > Christoph
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 29/03/2017, 10:39, "cpaasch@apple.com on behalf of Christoph
> Paasch"
> > > <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     Hello Wim,
> > > >
> > > >     inline:
> > > >
> > > >     On 29/03/17 - 15:29:04, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
> wrote:
> > > >     > Phil, you will be a bit more optimal but not a lot as you can
> see
> > > or you end up changing the SOCKs protocol. Even if you do this
> MP_CONVERT
> > > IE will always be the most optimal and hence this is what we propose
> for
> > > doing this proxy function.
> > > >     >
> > > >     > On 29/03/2017, 10:12, "multipathtcp on behalf of
> > > philip.eardley@bt.com" <multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of
> > > philip.eardley@bt.com> wrote:
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the
> > > authentication messages. After all, the home gateway and network prox=
y
> can
> > > be expected to know about each other already - at least don't need to
> do
> > > for every new TCP connection from devices behind home gateway
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     -----Original Message-----
> > > >     >     From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > > [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
> > > >     >     Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
> > > >     >     To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>;
> > > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > > >     >     Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Hi Phil,
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty
> > > version"? version of what?
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea
> about
> > > the number of messages that are required before sending actual traffi=
c
> > > when SOCKSv5 is used.
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create
> an
> > > initial subflow using SOCKSv5:
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > >     >     (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
> > > >     >                        <- TCP SYN/ACK <-
> > > >     >                        ->    TCP ACK    ->
> > > >     >                        -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
> > > >
> > > >     you would of course use TFO with SOCKS, so that you gain one
> RTT.
> > > >
> > > >     If then in addition to that you remove the authentication part
> of
> > > SOCKS, and
> > > >     you can even put the payload right after the SOCKS Connection
> > > Request inside
> > > >     the SYN-payload, then you are effectively also at a 0-RTT
> connection
> > > >     establishment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     Christoph
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     >                        <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
> > > >     >                         <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
> > > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
> > > >     >                         -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e=
)
> ->
> > > >     >                         <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
> > > >     >                         <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
> > > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
> > > >     >                         -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) ->
> > > (MCP)
> > > >     >                         <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <-
> > > (MCP)
> > > >     >
> > > (MCP)  -> TCP SYN (k) -> (Server)
> > > >     >
> > > (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
> > > >     >                         <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6)
> <-
> > > (MCP) -> TCP ACK (m) -> (Server)
> > > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
> > > >     >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling
> > > approach with MP_CONVERT IE.
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Cheers,
> > > >     >     Med
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > >     >     > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org=
]
> De
> > > la part de
> > > >     >     > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 mars 2017 20:=
24
> =C0 :
> > > >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] Two proxy
> > > scenario
> > > >     >     > (network proxy off path)
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > Hi,
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two
> > > proxies, one
> > > >     >     > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and
> one
> > > in the
> > > >     >     > network, both under the control of the operator. And
> looking
> > > at the 'explicit mode'
> > > >     >     > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the
> network
> > > proxy is
> > > >     >     > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the
> home
> > > gateway
> > > >     >     > proxy is on the default path)
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone
> > > scenario -
> > > >     >     > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and
> I'm
> > > just
> > > >     >     > creating
> > > >     >     > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS
> that
> > > can be
> > > >     >     > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages tha=
t
> are
> > > used to
> > > >     >     > authenticate.
> > > >     >     > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to
> > > assume that the
> > > >     >     > home gateway and network proxy are already
> authenticated. So
> > > a
> > > >     >     > non-chatty version would be ok.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > Is that right?
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > Thanks
> > > >     >     > phil
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > _______________________________________________
> > > >     >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> > > >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > > >     >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     _______________________________________________
> > > >     >     multipathtcp mailing list
> > > >     >     multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > > >     >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > > >     >
> > > >     >
> > > >     > _______________________________________________
> > > >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> > > >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > > >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > > >
> > > >


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Subject: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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<<I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one in t=
he home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network, both=
 under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'explicit mode' scen=
ario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is not on th=
e default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway proxy is on the =
default path)>>

In this scenario, do we assume that the TCP connection is always initiated =
by the endpoint that's behind the home gateway, or do we also handle connec=
tions initiated by the other end?  The former is the main case

I couldn't see anything about the latter in the drafts - think I remember s=
ome discussion on the list, but I can't find it (please just send a pointer=
 if already resolved)

Thanks
phil


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <cpaasch@apple.com>, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
CC: <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>, <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com> <20170329154652.GG2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4303A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20170329162327.GH2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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<< The point I am trying to make is that a 0-RTT proxying solution is not s=
omething that the MPTCP working-group should be in charge of. There are oth=
er places in the IETF that are probably more appropriate for this.>>
If possible the WG can discuss a solution for a while without worrying abou=
t this - at least to get to a protocol model that we like. then we (or rath=
er Mirja & IESG) can worry about Whether this needs a re-charter, another w=
g involved etc

-----Original Message-----
From: cpaasch@apple.com [mailto:cpaasch@apple.com]=20
Sent: 29 March 2017 11:23
To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>; Eardle=
y,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>; multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)

On 29/03/17 - 16:13:18, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> Christoph,
>=20
> If you remove the initial TCP connection, If you remove the=20
> authentication negotiation, If you include the payload of the original=20
> SYN as part of the NEW SOCKS request
>=20
> You are just cloning the MP_CONVERT behavior by overloading SOCKS semanti=
c without providing an extra feature compared to the MP_CONVERT.
>=20
> For the particular case of IPv6 when source address/prefix=20
> preservation is required, I don't see how this can be supported by=20
> SOCKS. Of course, you can modify the SOCKS command to clone MP_CONVERT=20
> :)

The point is that we should try to do something that is architecturally cle=
an, without being closely linked to MPTCP.

Just imagine, if you deploy a proxy that enables the use of TCP-BBR, a cong=
estion-control that is much better than what servers/clients currently use.=
 This would also need a 0-RTT proxying solution (even if it is not using MP=
TCP).


The point I am trying to make is that a 0-RTT proxying solution is not some=
thing that the MPTCP working-group should be in charge of. There are other =
places in the IETF that are probably more appropriate for this.


Christoph

>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De=A0: cpaasch@apple.com [mailto:cpaasch@apple.com] Envoy=E9=A0: mercre=
di=20
> > 29 mars 2017 10:47 =C0=A0: Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) Cc=A0:=
=20
> > philip.eardley@bt.com; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN;=20
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario=20
> > (network proxy off path)
> >=20
> > On 29/03/17 - 15:42:59, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote:
> > > Christoph, yes but again it something new and less optimal from=20
> > > the
> > proposed MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN.
> >=20
> > No, that's what I wrote below. It's not less optimal. It's exactly=20
> > the same in terms of performance as MP_CONVERT IE in the SYN!
> >=20
> >=20
> > Christoph
> >=20
> >=20
> > >
> > > On 29/03/2017, 10:39, "cpaasch@apple.com on behalf of Christoph Paasc=
h"
> > <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Hello Wim,
> > >
> > >     inline:
> > >
> > >     On 29/03/17 - 15:29:04, Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrot=
e:
> > >     > Phil, you will be a bit more optimal but not a lot as you=20
> > > can see
> > or you end up changing the SOCKs protocol. Even if you do this=20
> > MP_CONVERT IE will always be the most optimal and hence this is what=20
> > we propose for doing this proxy function.
> > >     >
> > >     > On 29/03/2017, 10:12, "multipathtcp on behalf of
> > philip.eardley@bt.com" <multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of=20
> > philip.eardley@bt.com> wrote:
> > >     >
> > >     >     By non-chatty, I meant a version that didn't do all the
> > authentication messages. After all, the home gateway and network=20
> > proxy can be expected to know about each other already - at least=20
> > don't need to do for every new TCP connection from devices behind=20
> > home gateway
> > >     >
> > >     >     -----Original Message-----
> > >     >     From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
> > >     >     Sent: 29 March 2017 06:30
> > >     >     To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>;
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     >     Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
> > >     >
> > >     >     Hi Phil,
> > >     >
> > >     >     Can you please clarify what you mean by a "non-chatty
> > version"? version of what?
> > >     >
> > >     >     You can refer to Section 3 of RFC1928 to have an idea about
> > the number of messages that are required before sending actual=20
> > traffic when SOCKSv5 is used.
> > >     >
> > >     >     Below an excerpt of signaling messages observed to create a=
n
> > initial subflow using SOCKSv5:
> > >     >
> > >     >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >     >     (MP Client) ->    TCP SYN    ->  (MCP)
> > >     >                        <- TCP SYN/ACK <-
> > >     >                        ->    TCP ACK    ->
> > >     >                        -> SOCKS Method Request (1)(a) ->
> > >
> > >     you would of course use TFO with SOCKS, so that you gain one RTT.
> > >
> > >     If then in addition to that you remove the authentication part=20
> > > of
> > SOCKS, and
> > >     you can even put the payload right after the SOCKS Connection
> > Request inside
> > >     the SYN-payload, then you are effectively also at a 0-RTT connect=
ion
> > >     establishment.
> > >
> > >
> > >     Christoph
> > >
> > >
> > >     >                        <-    TCP ACK (b)   <-
> > >     >                         <- SOCKS Method Response (2)(c) <-
> > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (d)   ->
> > >     >                         -> SOCKS Authentication Request (3)(e) =
->
> > >     >                         <-    TCP ACK (f)    <-
> > >     >                         <- SOCKS Auth. Response (4)(g) <-
> > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (h)   ->
> > >     >                         -> SOCKS Connection Request (5)(i) ->
> > (MCP)
> > >     >                         <-   TCP ACK (j)                   <-
> > (MCP)
> > >     >
> > (MCP)  -> TCP SYN (k) -> (Server)
> > >     >
> > (MCP)  <- SYN/ACK (l) <- (Server)
> > >     >                         <- SOCKS Connection Response (n) (6) <-
> > (MCP) -> TCP ACK (m) -> (Server)
> > >     >                         ->   TCP ACK (o)  ->
> > >     >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >     >
> > >     >     I let you compare it with the 0-RTT and 0-extra signaling
> > approach with MP_CONVERT IE.
> > >     >
> > >     >     Cheers,
> > >     >     Med
> > >     >
> > >     >     > -----Message d'origine-----
> > >     >     > De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] =
De
> > la part de
> > >     >     > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 mars 2017 20:24=
 =C0 :
> > >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : [multipathtcp] Two proxy
> > scenario
> > >     >     > (network proxy off path)
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Hi,
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two
> > proxies, one
> > >     >     > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and on=
e
> > in the
> > >     >     > network, both under the control of the operator. And look=
ing
> > at the 'explicit mode'
> > >     >     > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the netw=
ork
> > proxy is
> > >     >     > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the ho=
me
> > gateway
> > >     >     > proxy is on the default path)
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Thinking about the use of SOCKS in this context.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Earlier Olivier said (in the context of the smartphone
> > scenario -
> > >     >     > sorry if your comments don't apply to this scenario and I=
'm
> > just
> > >     >     > creating
> > >     >     > confusion) that there are different variants of SOCKS tha=
t
> > can be
> > >     >     > used, which mainly depend on the number of messages that =
are
> > used to
> > >     >     > authenticate.
> > >     >     > In the two proxy scenario, it's probably reasonable to
> > assume that the
> > >     >     > home gateway and network proxy are already authenticated.=
 So
> > a
> > >     >     > non-chatty version would be ok.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Is that right?
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > Thanks
> > >     >     > phil
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > _______________________________________________
> > >     >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> > >     >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > >     >
> > >     >     _______________________________________________
> > >     >     multipathtcp mailing list
> > >     >     multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     > _______________________________________________
> > >     > multipathtcp mailing list
> > >     > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
> > >
> > >


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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com> <20170329154652.GG2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4303A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20170329162327.GH2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <4d63da0dd6594a67b39b8d5d2f252abb@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net>
To: philip.eardley@bt.com, cpaasch@apple.com, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 19:38:40 +0200
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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On 29/03/17 18:38, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> << The point I am trying to make is that a 0-RTT proxying solution is not something that the MPTCP working-group should be in charge of. There are other places in the IETF that are probably more appropriate for this.>>
> If possible the WG can discuss a solution for a while without worrying about this - at least to get to a protocol model that we like. then we (or rather Mirja & IESG) can worry about Whether this needs a re-charter, another wg involved etc

I agree that there could be other use cases than MPTCP and that the main 
objective is to have 0-RTT proxying solution. Several members of this 
group have worked on MPTCP proxies and there is sufficient demand from 
various network operators to justify a specification that ensures that 
different implementations are interoperable. Given the experience that 
we have in this group with MPTCP proxies, it would make sense to discuss 
here first. There are already deployments and operators expect to have 
interoperablt solutions soon.


Olivier


From nobody Wed Mar 29 11:11:13 2017
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Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Re-,=20

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de
> philip.eardley@bt.com
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 11:34
> =C0=A0: multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - fa=
r
> end connection initiation?
>=20
> <<I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one in
> the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the network,
> both under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'explicit mode=
'
> scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is not
> on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway proxy is
> on the default path)>>
>=20
> In this scenario, do we assume that the TCP connection is always initiate=
d
> by the endpoint that's behind the home gateway, or do we also handle
> connections initiated by the other end?  The former is the main case

[Med] The MPTCP connection can be initiated from both ends.

>=20
> I couldn't see anything about the latter in the drafts - think I remember
> some discussion on the list, but I can't find it (please just send a
> pointer if already resolved)

[Med] You can check slide 7 of https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/s=
lides-95-mptcp-1.pdf or https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-p=
lain-mode-08#section-4.4.2. =20
=20
>=20
> Thanks
> phil
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


From nobody Wed Mar 29 11:14:19 2017
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Subject: [multipathtcp] volunteers for note taking and jabber
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--001a113c141808e23c054be28b7b
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Hello,
If you're interested in note taking or jabber room checking for our WG
meeting tomorrow, please let the chairs know.
If you're interested, but not sure what to do, please feel free to contact
us!

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil

--001a113c141808e23c054be28b7b
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div>If you&#39;re interested in note taking or jabb=
er room checking for our WG meeting tomorrow, please let the chairs know.</=
div><div>If you&#39;re interested, but not sure what to do, please feel fre=
e to contact us!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>--</div><div>Yo=
shi &amp; Phil</div><div><br></div></div>

--001a113c141808e23c054be28b7b--


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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: slides for MPTCP sessions tomorrow
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 18:14:19 +0000
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Subject: [multipathtcp] slides for MPTCP sessions tomorrow
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Hi,
We're gradually uploading slides to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98=
/session/mptcp (Costin, Olivier - please send your slides by the end of tod=
ay, thanks)
For the proxy discussion we're going to concentrate on the scenario where t=
here's two proxies - one at the home gateway /CPE and one in the network - =
and where the network proxy is not on the default path.
Med & the authors of the plain mode draft have done some nice slides on the=
 other scenarios & other issues we won't have time to get to - especially t=
he pictures are easier than the asci art in the internet drafts - https://w=
ww.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-network-assisted-mp=
tcp-02.pdf


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">We&#8217;re gradually uploading slides to
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98/session/mptcp">https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98/session/mptcp</a> (Costin, Olivier &#8211; p=
lease send your slides by the end of today, thanks)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">For the proxy discussion we&#8217;re going to concentrate on the s=
cenario where there&#8217;s two proxies &#8211; one at the home gateway /CP=
E and one in the network &#8211; and where the network proxy
 is not on the default path.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto">Med &amp; the authors of the plain mode draft have done some nice =
slides on the other scenarios &amp; other issues we won&#8217;t have time t=
o get to &#8211; especially the pictures are easier than
 the asci art in the internet drafts &#8211; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.or=
g/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-network-assisted-mptcp-02.pdf=
">
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-network-as=
sisted-mptcp-02.pdf</a>
<span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "cpaasch@apple.com" <cpaasch@apple.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
CC: "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:07:48 +0000
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References: <70EAECD3-22A6-420A-B84C-04B0673020DF@nokia.com> <20170329153901.GF2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <3D71318E-8644-4FB3-8C7F-9DD4E5AFE89B@nokia.com> <20170329154652.GG2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4303A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20170329162327.GH2779@dhcp-8507.meeting.ietf.org> <4d63da0dd6594a67b39b8d5d2f252abb@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> <165d5f12-884e-b823-45ee-a9f755b2270c@uclouvain.be>
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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If I get it right, the assumption here is that for a TCP connection initiat=
ed from the remote end point , the remote network proxy is on path.  (in th=
e other direction we're assuming the remote proxy is off path, so seems a b=
it odd?)

I think there's also the assumption that the local endpoint (in the home) h=
as previously made a connection out which has instantiated state in the rem=
ote proxy. So in this scenario, when the TCP SYN from the remote end point =
hits the remote proxy, then the remote proxy knows which home gateway the o=
ther end is on. Or something like that - to be honest, I couldn't understan=
d the slide /section of the draft.=20


-----Original Message-----
From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]=20
Sent: 29 March 2017 13:11
To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>; multipathtcp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connecti=
on initiation?

Re-,=20

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de=
=20
> philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 11:34 =C0=A0:=20
> multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet=A0: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario=20
> (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
>=20
> <<I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one=20
> in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the=20
> network, both under the control of the operator. And looking at the 'expl=
icit mode'
> scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is=20
> not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway=20
> proxy is on the default path)>>
>=20
> In this scenario, do we assume that the TCP connection is always=20
> initiated by the endpoint that's behind the home gateway, or do we=20
> also handle connections initiated by the other end?  The former is the=20
> main case

[Med] The MPTCP connection can be initiated from both ends.

>=20
> I couldn't see anything about the latter in the drafts - think I=20
> remember some discussion on the list, but I can't find it (please just=20
> send a pointer if already resolved)

[Med] You can check slide 7 of https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/s=
lides-95-mptcp-1.pdf or https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-p=
lain-mode-08#section-4.4.2. =20
=20
>=20
> Thanks
> phil
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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On 30/03/17 17:03, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> If I get it right, the assumption here is that for a TCP connection initiated from the remote end point , the remote network proxy is on path.  (in the other direction we're assuming the remote proxy is off path, so seems a bit odd?)

This is related to the fact that if the downstream MCP operates in 
explicit mode, then it performs NAT. Typically, the MCP has a block of 
public IP addresses that it uses for the clients that it serves. All 
external packets destined to any of these addresses are routed to the MCP.

> I think there's also the assumption that the local endpoint (in the home) has previously made a connection out which has instantiated state in the remote proxy. So in this scenario, when the TCP SYN from the remote end point hits the remote proxy, then the remote proxy knows which home gateway the other end is on. Or something like that - to be honest, I couldn't understand the slide /section of the draft.

There is an assumption that either there is a one-to-one mapping between 
the client addresses and the public addresses used by the MCP or the 
client has configured some port mapping rules, e.g. with PCP on the dMCP 
and the uMCP


Olivier


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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Re,

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 30 mars 2017 10:03
> =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end
> connection initiation?
>=20
> If I get it right, the assumption here is that for a TCP connection
> initiated from the remote end point , the remote network proxy is on path=
.

[Med] No.=20

> (in the other direction we're assuming the remote proxy is off path, so
> seems a bit odd?)
>=20
> I think there's also the assumption that the local endpoint (in the home)
> has previously made a connection out which has instantiated state in the
> remote proxy.

[Med] Not necessarily sending a connection out to the same remote peer. The=
 assumption is that a state is created on the proxy to prepare for incoming=
 connections by means specific protocols such as PCP (RFC6887). BTW, this i=
s exactly the same concern for e2e MPTCP connections when a firewall or a N=
AT is on the path. The same tools to create that state for the e2e MPTCP ca=
se can be reused in the case of the proxy connection.=20

 So in this scenario, when the TCP SYN from the remote end
> point hits the remote proxy, then the remote proxy knows which home
> gateway the other end is on.

[Med] Yes

 Or something like that - to be honest, I
> couldn't understand the slide /section of the draft.

[Med] The text says:=20

   In order to appropriately handle incoming SYN packets, the
   concentrator (resp.  CPE) are supposed to be configured with
   instructions that allows to redirect the traffic to the appropriate
   CPE (resp.  Internal host).=20

>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
> Sent: 29 March 2017 13:11
> To: Eardley,PL,Philip,TUB8 R <philip.eardley@bt.com>;
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end
> connection initiation?
>=20
> Re-,
>=20
> Please see inline.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Med
>=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part d=
e
> > philip.eardley@bt.com Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 29 mars 2017 11:34 =C0=A0:
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet=A0: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario
> > (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
> >
> > <<I'm now thinking about the scenario where there are two proxies, one
> > in the home gateway or Customer Premises Equipment and one in the
> > network, both under the control of the operator. And looking at the
> 'explicit mode'
> > scenario, which - if I get it right - means that the network proxy is
> > not on the default path. (It's safe to assume that the home gateway
> > proxy is on the default path)>>
> >
> > In this scenario, do we assume that the TCP connection is always
> > initiated by the endpoint that's behind the home gateway, or do we
> > also handle connections initiated by the other end?  The former is the
> > main case
>=20
> [Med] The MPTCP connection can be initiated from both ends.
>=20
> >
> > I couldn't see anything about the latter in the drafts - think I
> > remember some discussion on the list, but I can't find it (please just
> > send a pointer if already resolved)
>=20
> [Med] You can check slide 7 of
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-mptcp-1.pdf or
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-mptcp-plain-mode-08#section-
> 4.4.2.
>=20
> >
> > Thanks
> > phil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > multipathtcp mailing list
> > multipathtcp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp


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To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
Cc: "philip.eardley" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com,  multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Hmm.  But, I am not very sure if we really need to think about this case at
this moment.
It seems to me there are too many assumptions to make this work and it
doesn't look very scalable (I'm not sure how to maintain such public IP
address table)
If we don't see strong demands to support this case, I think it might be
better put aside it for the time being.
--
Yoshi


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Olivier Bonaventure <
Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> wrote:

> On 30/03/17 17:03, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
>> If I get it right, the assumption here is that for a TCP connection
>> initiated from the remote end point , the remote network proxy is on path.
>> (in the other direction we're assuming the remote proxy is off path, so
>> seems a bit odd?)
>>
>
> This is related to the fact that if the downstream MCP operates in
> explicit mode, then it performs NAT. Typically, the MCP has a block of
> public IP addresses that it uses for the clients that it serves. All
> external packets destined to any of these addresses are routed to the MCP.
>
> I think there's also the assumption that the local endpoint (in the home)
>> has previously made a connection out which has instantiated state in the
>> remote proxy. So in this scenario, when the TCP SYN from the remote end
>> point hits the remote proxy, then the remote proxy knows which home gateway
>> the other end is on. Or something like that - to be honest, I couldn't
>> understand the slide /section of the draft.
>>
>
> There is an assumption that either there is a one-to-one mapping between
> the client addresses and the public addresses used by the MCP or the client
> has configured some port mapping rules, e.g. with PCP on the dMCP and the
> uMCP
>
>
> Olivier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Hmm.=C2=A0 But, I am not very s=
ure if we really need to think about this case at this moment.<br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra">It seems to me there are too many assumptions to ma=
ke this work and it doesn&#39;t look very scalable (I&#39;m not sure how to=
 maintain such public IP address table)=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a">If we don&#39;t see strong demands to support this case, I think it migh=
t be better put aside it for the time being.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
">--</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Yoshi</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,=
 Mar 30, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Olivier Bonaventure <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" target=3D"_blank">Olivier.Bona=
venture@uclouvain.be</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><span class=3D"">On 30/03/17 17:03, <a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
If I get it right, the assumption here is that for a TCP connection initiat=
ed from the remote end point , the remote network proxy is on path.=C2=A0 (=
in the other direction we&#39;re assuming the remote proxy is off path, so =
seems a bit odd?)<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
This is related to the fact that if the downstream MCP operates in explicit=
 mode, then it performs NAT. Typically, the MCP has a block of public IP ad=
dresses that it uses for the clients that it serves. All external packets d=
estined to any of these addresses are routed to the MCP.<span class=3D""><b=
r>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I think there&#39;s also the assumption that the local endpoint (in the hom=
e) has previously made a connection out which has instantiated state in the=
 remote proxy. So in this scenario, when the TCP SYN from the remote end po=
int hits the remote proxy, then the remote proxy knows which home gateway t=
he other end is on. Or something like that - to be honest, I couldn&#39;t u=
nderstand the slide /section of the draft.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
There is an assumption that either there is a one-to-one mapping between th=
e client addresses and the public addresses used by the MCP or the client h=
as configured some port mapping rules, e.g. with PCP on the dMCP and the uM=
CP<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
Olivier</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
multipathtcp mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">multipathtcp@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/multipa=
thtcp</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>, "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
CC: philip.eardley <philip.eardley@bt.com>, multipathtcp <multipathtcp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Two proxy scenario (network proxy off path) - far end connection initiation?
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Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org
From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:53:00 -0500
Message-ID: <CAC8QAcewg+z+xcJ80yrPPt7KPuvMye-aNzOuHKCjsJspocQKYA@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "multipathtcp@ietf.org" <multipathtcp@ietf.org>, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/multipathtcp/UOqzvR9CsieepTkCZR-cVyq3OSc>
Subject: [multipathtcp] charter discussion
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Hi all,

Regarding the charter discussions that happened at the mptcp session on
Thursday March 30, I asked a question but I could not understand the
answer, let me ask it again.

In chairs slides page 12, TCP SYN shown in Option 1 and Option 2 actually
were different although the slides seems to show that they are the same.

In Option 1, if the proxy sends TCP SYN than is it OK in a conversation the
destination does not know who the source is?

In Option 2, if TCP SYN sent was the original TCP SYN from the source then

how come the TCP-ACK goes through the proxy?
A node sending a packet without its address as source address means it is
router, right?

Regards,

Behcet




>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the charte=
r discussions that happened at the mptcp session on Thursday March 30, I as=
ked a question but I could not understand the answer, let me ask it again.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>In chairs slides page 12, TCP SYN shown in Option =
1 and Option 2 actually were different although the slides seems to show th=
at they are the same.</div><div><br></div><div>In Option 1, if the proxy se=
nds TCP SYN than is it OK in a conversation the destination does not know w=
ho the source is?</div><div><br></div><div>In Option 2, if TCP SYN sent was=
 the original TCP SYN from the source then </div><div><br></div><div>how co=
me the TCP-ACK goes through the proxy?</div><div>A node sending a packet wi=
thout its address as source address means it is router, right?</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Behcet</div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-le=
ft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left=
-style:solid"><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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