From nobody Thu Jun 1 00:37:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A43129B52 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 00:37:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1BgMqEqogFIT for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 00:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9E4312D574 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 00:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id g15so8985326wmc.2 for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 00:37:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aLYsbYm4f+dCHt2JvL/th9bkhSex1Nu5k0Zc4LUENxw=; b=LT6RGY+MI1aeLH2n4yFhMN0KsGGsdpyI9UoMJYFKWO0aRIOHKpbuwNsC0DB7fsZVkJ C2KP0AfP17zNs1MhVK8FkTeTEKcbJUbpCPoIwx9zTuOisbm2sFi6m5SWNaKty2KjHI4Z iZC1NekOkBumFIka39Gqs780z8aSC0et/Mgc8GPbAFvSLQakQ93mvTCSF3zu5SxWjjgc UBR++XwVmWUgsWEG1w2wkgK7s6Yt+ooIMUQDGizhPW4d6m321kK7Pnjd8pUZWG8Tp1Yb XAo+c5MHGqFv53bR24etNz0VExOpbhrV8Fl/stuqRf7Bl680HPZDe04wrosZjFl5g25I ez6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aLYsbYm4f+dCHt2JvL/th9bkhSex1Nu5k0Zc4LUENxw=; b=AybfZSCiE88OftioLBDcOs8vwd6t3A0sW7SLCiXp102hXHdQ4L/uKKr+706eEAIGPA tPXgDnJYEuCS9Fqo1rT61Jm+9NSm/gsVToURWLqvWhAgutEivsh6Ts7j3kNwfwPtWRtr Aszr1KVYHpT2ezx9IxosONwH7YVjpGJB+jikH5gQP3fHmRq4C9cmvTtE7rNeg2jkgco6 qp7mwcLExZWblA8+Mykr2UYqDJj16edMJ7bGAV0zzeLNp24GL2NithxT7ETRZw65darK 8ItFIJWZRO+aMuZW40al0CM6TSH5dFbrzI9el9Gc4cWe/S1D1GqjhWNcRU8PJTQf3BGm 7+aw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcB3JpoG23XDbcWC6ZNbkSSSHqopUW3B5UdtFDv8Bh7URxsqUy6R Mksk33VLpzL5lQ== X-Received: by 10.223.170.74 with SMTP id q10mr96597wrd.171.1496302651229; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 00:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alans-mbp.lan (167.177.159.143.dyn.plus.net. [143.159.177.167]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j44sm11633238wre.67.2017.06.01.00.37.30 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Jun 2017 00:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alan Ford In-Reply-To: <0ff2085b-b355-dd2e-8f79-18fb6e6d2e4c@uclouvain.be> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:37:29 +0100 Cc: Christoph Paasch , =?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Finfe?= , multipathtcp@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <403B83E8-8BB4-4C8B-8395-F355487BED76@gmail.com> References: <3e6f4b31-15d3-0619-084a-2f264c93d9e5@tessares.net> <20170524050527.GH5506@da0602a-dhcp165.apple.com> <0ff2085b-b355-dd2e-8f79-18fb6e6d2e4c@uclouvain.be> To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] rfc6824bis - RST after MP_FASTCLOSE retransmission X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:37:35 -0000 Hi Olivier, > For MPTCP, a possible modification to rfc6824bis could be >=20 > o If Host A does not receive a TCP RST in reply to its MP_FASTCLOSE > after one retransmission timeout (RTO) (the RTO of the subflow > where the MPTCP_RST has been sent), it SHOULD retransmit the > MP_FASTCLOSE. The number of retransmissions SHOULD be limited to > avoid this connection from being retained for a long time, but > this limit is implementation specific. A RECOMMENDED number is = 3. >=20 > We could add. a sentence like : After 3 retransmission of the = MP_FASTCLOSE without any TCP RST in response, Host A MAY send a TCP RST = when it releases the state for this MPTCP connection. In essence, you are saying that when we give up retransmitting = MP_FASTCLOSE, just throw a TCP RST down that subflow anyway, it won=E2=80=99= t do any harm, and may help clear up state. That seems like a safe = addition to me. Best regards, Alan= From nobody Fri Jun 2 16:04:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC93124234; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 16:04:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net, philip.eardley@bt.com, mptcp-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.52.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149644468323.31768.16149815511460984560.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 16:04:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] mptcp - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 23:04:43 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Philip Eardley, a Chair of the mptcp working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Multipath TCP Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Philip Eardley Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours, 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: ippm tcpinc tcpm tsvarea tsvwg lmap tls Second Priority: taps iccrg rtcweb manet Third Priority: nfvrg quic maprg People who must be present: Yoshifumi Nishida Philip Eardley Mirja Kuehlewind Resources Requested: Special Requests: please avoid any transport area BoFs --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Jun 8 20:17:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2118128CDB for ; 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Thu, 08 Jun 2017 20:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.6] ([106.51.135.245]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s17sm12872785pfk.112.2017.06.08.20.16.56 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Jun 2017 20:16:57 -0700 (PDT) To: multipathtcp@ietf.org From: Sayee Kompalli Chakravartula Message-ID: <72dac97a-48c7-4067-21c5-8361fd2d1156@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:46:59 +0530 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 170608-8, 08-06-2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] A query about DSS Option X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 03:17:01 -0000 Hi All, I have two questions for the group for clarification. 1. Assume that MPTCP connection has to fallback to regular TCP because of payload modification by a middlebox. But I understand that payload modification risk is still there for the regular TCP connection. In case of regular TCP there is no way for the end-host to find out that payload is modified when the middlebox accordingly changes the checksum. That way the ability of the DSS Option to provide protection is very specific: so long as DSS Option can be enforced there is protection and when infinite mapping is to be enforced the protection disappears. So it appears to me that this feature is not very general. 2. Let us consider the simplest case of a MPTCP connection that consists of just one subflow. I open the initial subflow for the MPTCP connection and then successfully negotiated the DSS Option. Now until the time I open the second subflow, the DSS Option is only providing protection against potential payload modification at the cost of control overhead because DSNs are unnecessary until the time I open the second subflow, at least in principle. We need to keep in mind that this protection is available to only those segments to which the DSS Option is attached. Because when a DSS Option covers large enough data then we do not have to append DSS Option to every segment, thus saving on overhead. Then what about those segments to which DSS Option is not attached ? But the specification suggests that the DSS Option be sent frugally. So in other words, the protection that MPTCP design provides through the DSS Option is on/off. Also, there is no reason why one should provide protection selectively. So one needs to append the DSS Option to every segment which does not make much sense to me. First of all, I am not sure whether the DSS Option providing protection against payload modification is a stated goal of MPTCP. But I like to understand that the ability of DSS Option providing protection is an off-shoot of its intended design. I thank you all in advance! Best Regards, -Sayee --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From nobody Sun Jun 11 15:43:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36FE126BF7 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fLL-vbB6u8cr for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x230.google.com (mail-wr0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89D92126557 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x230.google.com with SMTP id v111so78692002wrc.3 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:43:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=h0ScF1D4RfIv8RP217t/5D5J776VZnAW2jZ30kCpKsk=; b=lwltKtbdGFKnqUYwz/uzoYMeKunj7UQ42Dx13a1V4um6A1Vo3CxfM8DuWpThm7iA+b 24gAsIHYEdJ86+CGqkUrUWNKv7WoDqwDYRlftQfzhd9YctJV4Ck+dLrJ9PVS+pLFjbcw tMXQtIRkt4Uxp4ulfF+lYomHzMqOv4cWHLA9+IKNEIKXsgRzYdZJrKL6ovTsmEjijB75 a+I5BtQ+FiEmz3PU7CyeVAFP8LcB795FI9pwo3SE+IdUgGTRgpLgWcd7sWXgdhF+oITs PBzWNwdkrUFW+sOxPzrn8y/ZEosEDMXE1IkaCqkafNFMQ5Qbu0GTqSyHdwBTcmCW5HD7 4ooA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=h0ScF1D4RfIv8RP217t/5D5J776VZnAW2jZ30kCpKsk=; b=kVlHz3OMfStbGPiYT4UXRRY6LoTd4Vs11/bner+z8rt6iBEsl0DVdXBiYJ3D8ttTHB 3RryZGseEb/QKImIH1lf6ZiJlhIWi81td47Kx2C9r0Y/sIwEper0IvsF3w+DHeR0nVsv mfCW8kJ2mW2CJgWLBtrwv4fafx7Gyb1zVOtOQkLeT4KIPTGy0NTVsICIfPZSs0G1lWV2 9PoSUGTEUX3aP3c4hysdJsLzTcieopx0AFtZOg8w+Bv/XKY4M9/aaIA7r3RFRsji2+WI vnq+KuMTaN2Gk4j2S+HqxL0dDHLTFlNmYEM6uGxLDqgP5vIZzEgUppsVPEvP82Ck1GIe A7Og== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOztQCDW5MRHwW11Z/aC3bRiyIBcm7Q0cy7w2UicjmQWyTM4LJAb rF4/TYae6jG5GA== X-Received: by 10.28.9.142 with SMTP id 136mr5940979wmj.91.1497220985019; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alans-mbp.lan (167.177.159.143.dyn.plus.net. [143.159.177.167]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q98sm10704019wrb.3.2017.06.11.15.43.03 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alan Ford In-Reply-To: <72dac97a-48c7-4067-21c5-8361fd2d1156@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:43:03 +0100 Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <24D7DF40-B1B4-47DC-B462-A69133F354FE@gmail.com> References: <72dac97a-48c7-4067-21c5-8361fd2d1156@gmail.com> To: Sayee Kompalli Chakravartula X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] A query about DSS Option X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 22:43:09 -0000 Hi Sayee, To clarify - MPTCP is not attempting to prevent payload modification = (for that, you should use encryption). The purpose of the checksum is to = alert the MPTCP stack to any middleboxes which are not MPTCP aware and = have potentially broken the MPTCP data flow by altering the payload and = thus broken segment boundaries. For example, if a NAT replaces =E2=80=9C10.0.0.1=E2=80=9D with = =E2=80=9C192.168.0.1=E2=80=9D in the payload, that is now three bytes = longer. The DSS mappings would no longer match the new length of the = payload and without the checksum, the MPTCP stack would reassemble = incorrectly and deliver garbage data to the application. The purpose of = the checksum is purely to avoid this situation. Regards, Alan > On 9 Jun 2017, at 04:16, Sayee Kompalli Chakravartula = wrote: >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > I have two questions for the group for clarification. >=20 > 1. Assume that MPTCP connection has to fallback to regular TCP because = of payload modification > by a middlebox. But I understand that payload modification risk is = still there for the regular > TCP connection. In case of regular TCP there is no way for the = end-host to find out that payload > is modified when the middlebox accordingly changes the checksum. That = way the ability of the DSS Option to provide protection is very = specific: so long as DSS Option can be enforced there is protection and = when infinite mapping is to be enforced the protection disappears. So it = appears to me that this feature is > not very general. >=20 > 2. Let us consider the simplest case of a MPTCP connection that = consists of just one subflow. I open the initial subflow for the MPTCP = connection and then successfully negotiated the DSS > Option. Now until the time I open the second subflow, the DSS Option = is only providing protection against > potential payload modification at the cost of control overhead because = DSNs are unnecessary until the time > I open the second subflow, at least in principle. We need to keep in = mind that this protection is available > to only those segments to which the DSS Option is attached. Because = when a DSS Option covers large enough data > then we do not have to append DSS Option to every segment, thus saving = on overhead. Then what about those segments to which DSS Option is not = attached ? But the specification suggests that the DSS Option be sent = frugally. So in other words, the protection that MPTCP design provides = through the DSS Option is on/off. Also, there is no reason why one = should provide protection selectively. So one needs to append the DSS = Option to every segment which does not make much sense to me. First of = all, I am not sure whether the DSS Option providing protection against = payload modification is a stated goal of MPTCP. But I like to = understand that > the ability of DSS Option providing protection is an off-shoot of its = intended design. >=20 > I thank you all in advance! >=20 > Best Regards, > -Sayee >=20 >=20 > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp From nobody Mon Jun 12 06:11:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4D2126CC4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gESya_Wg_nuH for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x234.google.com (mail-qt0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 430B11205F1 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x234.google.com with SMTP id u19so124721240qta.3 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sHgx0U/w5uxWH8NAdII+vTzJqbGUTyGo6xCIQ7P59Hc=; b=MMYHlEKyHPnDMk5UyUno7wPXCtYTm4/os7j/DhE3RrGSp+YxkNKMyv86PjZWBhPMEg Ndz0q2cPqTCgL0iWFAiNXircihlU2hvfe350UBKaeZT5JHuusBIaK2lWNoDWxA2yP4aS nsVXJCHwTgOk7CC1SxNbfTKndVtT9LZ+ponUm1SrRwgk9Z2bcC+VM+/yfs8XDszRB/JR 0+Q+6cBxk6ip3YGf11XT4BsHN+fZ+QpvwqaVfdWXyWU7kZdFEeA3XzKUaNVtY/7neZvg XdyCegFiJYsPJDnR+8p0ynCrfHOwYVr+/tfvpI3c02276hrpt7TlHttOHlK8RDOh56o1 NJpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sHgx0U/w5uxWH8NAdII+vTzJqbGUTyGo6xCIQ7P59Hc=; b=QYER1ZviQuFew2G2pP/dYt/UktoKTM14nFRhfAJCm8td3YnRDFHSaIGi/uk4bgQY0F pDSflSG547GvgS9XkOPKrEd73ZTdyuTSM4BbgPvNc5VRAUoa9eWoo0MLifMC1olePc1X 0Zs2xaR8ylIb0qoW51RONu2XLlL3o/P3sVM+wRDD8nqSOwAakTqbXa1MtMSxzxeYTiKy Z0rLDTibUlulHqPT6G+zzM2GJJuKv3JNEYcU6kjD0KLWns8gj6ON33m49DgjZ2+bFosI tkDdRUgdpbsRjTSF74O0WMkCs72UY3UM5OxDX0j0hBJSiTl6pjCK9drC2nJUCDl4Yye6 sl4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBqrnpkC2GgTLh2gv0cZlPL/hQlsPdJ95Uonro6ZPmqL2xGcxnh UsUSPaEgTzsHeaiE00bsQkmvn8dTtA== X-Received: by 10.200.43.99 with SMTP id 32mr69381342qtv.6.1497273106206; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.39.38 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.39.38 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:11:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <24D7DF40-B1B4-47DC-B462-A69133F354FE@gmail.com> References: <72dac97a-48c7-4067-21c5-8361fd2d1156@gmail.com> <24D7DF40-B1B4-47DC-B462-A69133F354FE@gmail.com> From: "Sayee C. Kompalli" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:41:45 +0530 Message-ID: To: Alan Ford Cc: multipathtcp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146fb46a095990551c30f1f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] A query about DSS Option X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:11:50 -0000 --001a1146fb46a095990551c30f1f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jun 12, 2017 4:13 AM, "Alan Ford" wrote: Hi Sayee, To clarify - MPTCP is not attempting to prevent payload modification (for that, you should use encryption). The purpose of the checksum is to alert the MPTCP stack to any middleboxes which are not MPTCP aware and have potentially broken the MPTCP data flow by altering the payload and thus broken segment boundaries. I agree, I should have carefully chosen my wording. For example, if a NAT replaces =E2=80=9C10.0.0.1=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C192= .168.0.1=E2=80=9D in the payload, that is now three bytes longer. I didn't understand this; IPv4 address always occupies 4 bytes of memory. Is it not? The DSS mappings would no longer match the new length of the payload and without the checksum, the MPTCP stack would reassemble incorrectly and deliver garbage data to the application. The purpose of the checksum is purely to avoid this situation. Regards, Alan > On 9 Jun 2017, at 04:16, Sayee Kompalli Chakravartula < sayee.kompalli@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have two questions for the group for clarification. > > 1. Assume that MPTCP connection has to fallback to regular TCP because of payload modification > by a middlebox. But I understand that payload modification risk is still there for the regular > TCP connection. In case of regular TCP there is no way for the end-host to find out that payload > is modified when the middlebox accordingly changes the checksum. That way the ability of the DSS Option to provide protection is very specific: so long as DSS Option can be enforced there is protection and when infinite mapping is to be enforced the protection disappears. So it appears to me that this feature is > not very general. > > 2. Let us consider the simplest case of a MPTCP connection that consists of just one subflow. I open the initial subflow for the MPTCP connection and then successfully negotiated the DSS > Option. Now until the time I open the second subflow, the DSS Option is only providing protection against > potential payload modification at the cost of control overhead because DSNs are unnecessary until the time > I open the second subflow, at least in principle. We need to keep in mind that this protection is available > to only those segments to which the DSS Option is attached. Because when a DSS Option covers large enough data > then we do not have to append DSS Option to every segment, thus saving on overhead. Then what about those segments to which DSS Option is not attached ? But the specification suggests that the DSS Option be sent frugally. So in other words, the protection that MPTCP design provides through the DSS Option is on/off. Also, there is no reason why one should provide protection selectively. So one needs to append the DSS Option to every segment which does not make much sense to me. First of all, I am not sure whether the DSS Option providing protection against payload modification is a stated goal of MPTCP. But I like to understand that > the ability of DSS Option providing protection is an off-shoot of its intended design. > > I thank you all in advance! > > Best Regards, > -Sayee > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > multipathtcp mailing list > multipathtcp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multipathtcp --001a1146fb46a095990551c30f1f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Jun 12, 2017 4:13 AM, "Alan Ford" <alan.ford@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Sayee,

To clarify - MPTCP is not attempting to prevent payload modification (for t= hat, you should use encryption). The purpose of the checksum is to alert th= e MPTCP stack to any middleboxes which are not MPTCP aware and have potenti= ally broken the MPTCP data flow by altering the payload and thus broken seg= ment boundaries.

I agree, I should have carefully chosen my wording.

For example, if a NAT replaces =E2=80=9C10.0.0.1=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C192= .168.0.1=E2=80=9D in the payload, that is now three bytes longer.

I didn&= #39;t understand this; IPv4 address always occupies 4 bytes of memory. Is i= t not?


The
=C2=A0DSS mappings would no longe= r match the new length of the payload and without the checksum, the MPTCP s= tack would reassemble incorrectly and deliver garbage data to the applicati= on. The purpose of the checksum is purely to avoid this situation.

Regards,
Alan

> On 9 Jun 2017, at 04:16, Sayee Kompalli Chakravartula <sayee.kompalli@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have two questions for the group for clarification.
>
> 1. Assume that MPTCP connection has to fallback to regular TCP because= of payload modification
> by a middlebox. But I understand that payload modification risk is sti= ll there for the regular
> TCP connection. In case of regular TCP there is no way for the end-hos= t to find out that payload
> is modified when the middlebox accordingly changes the checksum. That = way the ability of the DSS Option to provide protection is very specific: s= o long as DSS Option can be enforced there is protection and when infinite = mapping is to be enforced the protection disappears. So it appears to me th= at this feature is
> not very general.
>
> 2. Let us consider the simplest case of a MPTCP connection that consis= ts of just one subflow. I open the initial subflow for the MPTCP connection= and then successfully negotiated the DSS
> Option. Now until the time I open the second subflow, the DSS Option i= s only providing protection against
> potential payload modification at the cost of control overhead because= DSNs are unnecessary until the time
> I open the second subflow, at least in principle. We need to keep in m= ind that this protection is available
> to only those segments to which the DSS Option is attached. Because wh= en a DSS Option covers large enough data
> then we do not have to append DSS Option to every segment, thus saving= on overhead. Then what about those segments to which DSS Option is not att= ached ? But the specification suggests that the DSS Option be sent frugally= . So in other words, the protection that MPTCP design provides through the = DSS Option is on/off. Also, there is no reason why one should provide prote= ction selectively. So one needs to append the DSS Option to every segment w= hich does not make much sense to me. First of all, I am not sure whether th= e DSS Option providing protection against payload modification is a stated = goal of MPTCP.=C2=A0 But I like to understand that
> the ability of DSS Option providing protection is an off-shoot of its = intended design.
>
> I thank you all in advance!
>
> Best Regards,
> -Sayee
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
> multipathtcp mailing list
> multipathtcp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mu= ltipathtcp


--001a1146fb46a095990551c30f1f-- From nobody Mon Jun 12 13:41:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8808129A9D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WIs1PpL4lRw for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92EBA1293E8 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-f175.google.com (mail-ot0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B147E27832F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 05:40:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-ot0-f175.google.com with SMTP id a2so74094946oth.2 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAsotogoinqgU/y0H4t0IBzz4lZeEYEE3+uTm8O0H6uhbn/MKfh yegVitMy5FFIGj8ZTn+lyTPVAhrlPg== X-Received: by 10.157.44.231 with SMTP id e36mr33144152otd.82.1497300053536; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.67.148 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <72dac97a-48c7-4067-21c5-8361fd2d1156@gmail.com> <24D7DF40-B1B4-47DC-B462-A69133F354FE@gmail.com> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:40:53 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Sayee C. Kompalli" Cc: Alan Ford , multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141cf64d03a520551c9553d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] A query about DSS Option X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 20:41:00 -0000 --001a1141cf64d03a520551c9553d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Sayee C. Kompalli wrote: > > > On Jun 12, 2017 4:13 AM, "Alan Ford" wrote: > > Hi Sayee, > > To clarify - MPTCP is not attempting to prevent payload modification (for > that, you should use encryption). The purpose of the checksum is to alert > the MPTCP stack to any middleboxes which are not MPTCP aware and have > potentially broken the MPTCP data flow by altering the payload and thus > broken segment boundaries. > > > I agree, I should have carefully chosen my wording. > > > For example, if a NAT replaces =E2=80=9C10.0.0.1=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C1= 92.168.0.1=E2=80=9D in the > payload, that is now three bytes longer. > > > I didn't understand this; IPv4 address always occupies 4 bytes of memory. > Is it not? > Not always. Some application protocols (e.g. ftp or protocols that exchange SDPs) could use text format for IP addresses. -- Yoshi --001a1141cf64d03a520551c9553d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Sayee C. Kompalli <sayee.kompalli@= gmail.com> wrote:


On Jun 12, 2017 4:13 AM, "Alan Ford" <alan.ford@gmail.com= > wrote:
Hi Sayee,

To clarify - MPTCP is not attempting to prevent payload modification (for t= hat, you should use encryption). The purpose of the checksum is to alert th= e MPTCP stack to any middleboxes which are not MPTCP aware and have potenti= ally broken the MPTCP data flow by altering the payload and thus broken seg= ment boundaries.

I agree, I should have carefully chosen my wor= ding.

For example, if a NAT replaces =E2=80=9C10.0.0.1=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C192= .168.0.1=E2=80=9D in the payload, that is now three bytes longer.

= I didn't understand this; IPv4 address always occupies 4 bytes of memor= y. Is it not?

Not always. Some = application protocols (e.g. ftp or protocols that exchange SDPs) could use = text format for IP addresses.
--
Yoshi

--001a1141cf64d03a520551c9553d-- From nobody Thu Jun 15 11:04:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248C21286B1 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bHMzfdVY0vuQ for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A604127333 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-f173.google.com (mail-ot0-f173.google.com [74.125.82.173]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFF08278588 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-ot0-f173.google.com with SMTP id u13so694500otd.2 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyKBFbe5U0Fm41uZf3HxfjuVGt4xkUh4Gj7CxNAzeLaeOts3g/V 24Vr9iDLZeGroBrzLpSQtJzqQS5z/A== X-Received: by 10.157.9.210 with SMTP id 18mr2097979otz.245.1497549829305; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.41.220 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:03:48 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d0e169c03680552037dc8" Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:03:59 -0000 --001a113d0e169c03680552037dc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thank you for the replies and discussion about the consensus call and active discussions on this topic. We apologize for the delay in responding. We have discussed and studies this topic carefully. In our observation, we believe most people basically support proxy work in the WG along with #1 scenario in page 12 at https://www.ietf.org/ proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-chairs-01.pdf OTOH, we've seen some folks raised concerns on the proposal. The chairs have discussed on these concerns and we think the following points will not be solved in the current proposal without significant updates. a) The current proposal requires applications to snoop transit traffics and modify header information in TCP packets. b) The current proposal requires to convey information in TCP SYN packets. This would need to consider cooperation with other WGs, such as tcpm or tsvwg, to consider any impact on the robustness and security of TCP. c) The current document is hard for people to understand the proposal Based on our assessment of the current situation, we think some combination of the followings will be required in order to make progress. - A new draft, based on the existing one but with modifications to address the concerns - A fresh approach - A possible update of some of our technology criteria. For example, we've seen some people prefer 0-RTT approach, but this might be a bit hard requirement and 1 or 2 RTTs could be possible compromise. Again, we appreciate lots of productive discussions and very sorry for our slow response. If you have comments or questions on our current assessments, please let us know. Best regards, -- Yoshi & Phil --001a113d0e169c03680552037dc8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for the replies and discussion about the consensus call and act= ive discussions on this topic. We apologize for the delay in responding. We= have discussed and studies this topic carefully.

=

=C2=A0

In ou= r observation, we believe most people basically support proxy work in the W= G along with #1 scenario in page 12 at=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-ses= sa-chairs-01.pdf

=C2=A0<= u>

OTOH, we've seen some folks raised con= cerns on the proposal.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The chairs have discussed on these concerns and we = think the following points will not be solved in the current proposal witho= ut significant updates.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 a) The current proposal requires applications to snoop transit traffics= and modify header information in TCP packets.

=C2= =A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 b) The current proposal requires to convey infor= mation in TCP SYN packets. This would need to consider cooperation with oth= er WGs, such as tcpm or tsvwg, to consider any impact on the robustness and= security of TCP.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0c) The current document is hard for people to understand the proposal=

=C2=A0

Based on our assessment of the current= situation, we think=C2=A0some combination of the followings will be required in order t= o make progress.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0 =C2=A0A new= draft, based on the existing one but with modifications to address the con= cerns

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0A fresh ap= proach

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0A possi= ble update of some of our technology criteria. For example, we've seen = some people prefer 0-RTT approach, but this might be a bit hard requirement= and 1 or 2 RTTs could be possible compromise.

<= u>=C2=A0

Again, we appreciate lots of product= ive discussions and very sorry for our slow response.=C2=A0

If you have comments or questions on our current a= ssessments, please let us know.

Best regards,

--

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yoshi & Phil

=C2=A0

--001a113d0e169c03680552037dc8-- From nobody Fri Jun 16 05:56:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F137B129BD1 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 05:56:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JqqNl20FPgOr for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 05:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95F221294E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 05:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 918B91804FE; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:56:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.39]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 6E7944007F; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:56:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f1a0:3c6b:bc7b:3aaf]) by OPEXCNORM2C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::2977:5660:65d1:c10f%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:56:05 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida , multipathtcp Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work Thread-Index: AQHS5gHHgPROYLEc3E2uJ3vqYdp7ZKInZnIg Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:56:04 +0000 Message-ID: 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f247kx7sVrv4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 07:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56DAA126B7E for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 07:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 100EA60331; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:02:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.25]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E749740086; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:02:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f1a0:3c6b:bc7b:3aaf]) by OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::347e:851c:671b:3eed%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:02:27 +0200 From: To: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN , "Yoshifumi Nishida" , multipathtcp Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work Thread-Index: AQHS5gHHMBi+ezamBUmgb4mQjB46BaInUkgAgAAxuXA= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:02:26 +0000 Message-ID: <13011_1497621751_5943E4F6_13011_234_1_cc838c8f-77e1-4e54-8c1d-52d449cd4c1e@OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FE3354@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FE3354@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] 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12:04:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E601293E0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ab-acNcwU5nT for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88ADA1293D6 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-f43.google.com (mail-oi0-f43.google.com [209.85.218.43]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99461278698 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2017 04:04:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-oi0-f43.google.com with SMTP id c189so6075477oia.2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzO5N2E/VK9yalGK1VZK9mFNZyh1i5zi726Rlm5zzcd0icnDhSG 3MHXb41gJ3G3y7GxhRmFnwKrDRG0jQ== X-Received: by 10.202.48.194 with SMTP id w185mr5777244oiw.85.1497639866896; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.41.220 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <13011_1497621751_5943E4F6_13011_234_1_cc838c8f-77e1-4e54-8c1d-52d449cd4c1e@OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FE3354@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <13011_1497621751_5943E4F6_13011_234_1_cc838c8f-77e1-4e54-8c1d-52d449cd4c1e@OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:04:26 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: christian.jacquenet@orange.com Cc: "BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN" , Yoshifumi Nishida , multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cdff444a0020552187472" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:04:35 -0000 --001a113cdff444a0020552187472 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, Christian, Thanks for the response. I think I understand your point. But, one thing I would like to mention is that our consensus can be archived when all issues are addressed. (see rfc7282) We don't think we have found good counter arguments to address or push away the concerns raised during discussions. So, we decide not to adopt the current proposal for now as we think just counting number of support/unsupport won't be good way to measure consensus here. Also, as we know we have quite lengthy discussions on this draft. But, I am not very sure if it is getting matured and not sure if we can implement it by just reading the draft. We start having big concerns how long it will take to publish it. That's why the chairs think some drastic changes will be necessary. We are afraid that if we try to update the draft incrementally, we might need to spend another a year or so for discussions. We thought it will be much shorter if we do a fresh start based on what we have learned so far. Anyway, our common purpose is to explore a simple, straightforward and well-focused and implementable proposal on this topic. If you have some ideas to reach this goal, please share. Phil and I are discussing what's the best options for the WG. Thanks, -- Yoshi On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:02 AM, wrote: > WG, > > > > I am too a bit unclear about some of the text of Yoshi=E2=80=99s message. > > > > Like Med, I would like to read it as a confirmation that the proxy work > based upon option #1 that was discussed during the Chicago session and > which reached consensus among the WG members is now an mptcp WG item. > > > > Then, the =E2=80=9Cthe current document is hard for people to understand = the > proposal=E2=80=9D argument reads very speculative to me and I don=E2=80= =99t believe this is > actually an argument per se. > > > > And there=E2=80=99s the notion of =E2=80=9Cfresh approach=E2=80=9D that m= ay be possibly combined > with one of the other options listed in Yoshi=E2=80=99s message, which I = don=E2=80=99t > quite understand from a working procedure standpoint. > > > > We have a document on the table. Let us work on it to address all the > concerns that have been raised so far and those that may arise as we > progress the discussion, like any other typical IETF WG specification > effort. > > > > I=E2=80=99m looking forward to working with you all. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Christian. > > > > *De :* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de= * > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 16 juin 2017 14:56 > *=C3=80 :* Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp > *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP > proxy work > > > > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Thank you for this summary that I read as a confirmation of the consensus > to work on #1 as per the outcome of the last IETF meeting. > > > > I don=E2=80=99t quite understand why the WG should wait for yet another c= ycle > before adopting the document. Sure, the document needs to be updated to > reflect some of outcomes of the discussion and other inputs from the WG. > That=E2=80=99s just the normal IETF process. > > > > I=E2=80=99m afraid there may be confusion between a WGLC and a document a= doption > call. > > > > Having a WG item ASAP will help us fixing issues that are raised or > yet-to-be raised. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org > ] *De la part de* Yoshifumi Nishida > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 15 juin 2017 20:04 > *=C3=80 :* multipathtcp > *Objet :* [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy > work > > > > Thank you for the replies and discussion about the consensus call and > active discussions on this topic. We apologize for the delay in respondin= g. > We have discussed and studies this topic carefully. > > > > In our observation, we believe most people basically support proxy work i= n > the WG along with #1 scenario in page 12 at https://www.ietf.org/procee > dings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-chairs-01.pdf > > > > OTOH, we've seen some folks raised concerns on the proposal. > > > > The chairs have discussed on these concerns and we think the following > points will not be solved in the current proposal without significant > updates. > > > > a) The current proposal requires applications to snoop transit > traffics and modify header information in TCP packets. > > > > b) The current proposal requires to convey information in TCP SYN > packets. This would need to consider cooperation with other WGs, such as > tcpm or tsvwg, to consider any impact on the robustness and security of T= CP. > > > > c) The current document is hard for people to understand the proposal > > > > Based on our assessment of the current situation, we think some > combination of the followings will be required in order to make progress. > > > > - A new draft, based on the existing one but with modifications to > address the concerns > > - A fresh approach > > - A possible update of some of our technology criteria. For example= , > we've seen some people prefer 0-RTT approach, but this might be a bit har= d > requirement and 1 or 2 RTTs could be possible compromise. > > > > Again, we appreciate lots of productive discussions and very sorry for ou= r > slow response. > > If you have comments or questions on our current assessments, please let > us know. > > > > Best regards, > > -- > > Yoshi & Phil > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --001a113cdff444a0020552187472 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med, Christian,

Thanks for the respo= nse. I think I understand your point.=C2=A0
But, one thing I woul= d like to mention is that our consensus can be archived when all issues are= addressed. (see rfc7282)
We don't think we have found good c= ounter arguments to address or push away the concerns raised during discuss= ions.=C2=A0
So, we decide not to adopt= the current proposal for now as we think just counting number of support/u= nsupport won't be good way to measure consensus here.

Also, as we know we h= ave quite lengthy discussions on this draft.=C2=A0
But, I am not very sure if it is getting matured and not sure if we= can implement it by just reading the draft.=C2=A0
We start having big concerns how long it will take to publish it.= =C2=A0

That's why the chairs think some drastic changes will be necessary. We= are afraid that if we try to update the draft incrementally, we might need= to spend another a year or so for discussions. We thought it will be much = shorter if we do a fresh start based on what we have learned so far. =C2=A0=

Anywa= y, our common purpose is to explore a simple, straightforward and well-focu= sed and implementable proposal on this topic.
If you have some ideas to reach this goal, please share. Phil and I are = discussing what's the best options for the WG.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:02 AM, <christian.jacquenet@orange.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

WG,

=C2=A0

I am too a bit unclear about some of the tex= t of Yoshi=E2=80=99s message.

=C2=A0

Like Med, I would like to read it as a confi= rmation that the proxy work based upon option #1 that was discussed during = the Chicago session and which reached consensus among the WG members is now an mptcp WG item.

=C2=A0

Then, the =E2=80=9Cthe curren= t document is hard for people to understand the proposal=E2=80=9D argument reads very speculative to me and I don=E2=80=99t believe this is actually = an argument per se.

=C2=A0

And there=E2=80=99s the notion of =E2=80=9Cf= resh approach=E2=80=9D that may be possibly combined with one of the other = options listed in Yoshi=E2=80=99s message, which I don=E2=80=99t quite unde= rstand from a working procedure standpoint.

=C2=A0

We have a document on the table. Let us work= on it to address all the concerns that have been raised so far and those t= hat may arise as we progress the discussion, like any other typical IETF WG specification effort.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m looking forward to working with = you all.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

=C2=A0

Christian.

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: vendredi 16 juin 2017 14:56
=C3=80=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential= MPTCP proxy work

=C2=A0

Hi Yoshi,

=C2=A0

Thank you for this summary that I read as a co= nfirmation of the consensus to work on #1 as per the outcome of the last IE= TF meeting.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t quite understand why the WG sh= ould wait for yet another cycle before adopting the document. Sure, the doc= ument needs to be updated to reflect some of outcomes of the discussion and other inputs from the WG. That=E2=80=99s just the no= rmal IETF process.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m afraid there may be confusion betw= een a WGLC and a document adoption call.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Having a WG item ASAP will help us fixing issu= es that are raised or yet-to-be raised.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Yoshifumi Nishida
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: jeudi 15 juin 2017 20:04
=C3=80=C2=A0: multipathtcp
Objet=C2=A0: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPT= CP proxy work

=C2=A0

Thank you for the replies and discussion about= the consensus call and active discussions on this topic. We apologize for = the delay in responding. We have discussed and studies this topic carefully.

=C2=A0

In our observation, we believe mos= t people basically support proxy work in the WG along with #1 scenario in p= age 12 at=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/proce= edings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-chairs-01.pdf

=C2=A0

OTOH, we've seen some folks ra= ised concerns on the proposal.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The chairs have discussed on these concerns an= d we think the following points will not be solved in the current proposal without significant updates.=

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a) The current proposal requires= applications to snoop transit traffics and modify header information in TC= P packets.

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 b) The current proposal requires= to convey information in TCP SYN packets. This would need to consider coop= eration with other WGs, such as tcpm or tsvwg, to consider any impact on the robustness= and security of TCP.

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0c) The current document is = hard for people to understand the proposal<= u>

=C2=A0<= /span>

Based on our assessment of the current situati= on, we think=C2=A0some combination of the followings will be required in or= der to make progress.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0 =C2=A0A new draft, based= on the existing one but with modifications to address the concerns<= span lang=3D"FR">

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A fresh appro= ach

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A possible up= date of some of our technology criteria. For example, we've seen some p= eople prefer 0-RTT approach, but this might be a bit hard requirement and 1 or 2 RTTs could be possible= compromise.

=C2=A0

Again, we appreciate lots of produ= ctive discussions and very sorry for our slow response.=C2=A0=

If you have comments or questions = on our current assessments, please let us know.

=C2=A0

Best regards,=

--

Yoshi & Phil

=C2=A0

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--001a113cdff444a0020552187472-- From nobody Mon Jun 19 04:23:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D1A129C62 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 04:23:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRacwnDZFV7F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 04:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpb1.bt.com (smtpb1.bt.com [62.7.242.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E532C129C5E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 04:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EVHUB05-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.108.173) by EVMED06-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:23:42 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) by EVHUB05-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.108.173) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:23:44 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03d.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:23:43 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:23:43 +0100 From: To: Thread-Topic: MPTCP sessions in Prague - and Hackathon? Thread-Index: AdLo7dZdaIu1xuXcSfqXL8hc5GCMiw== Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:23:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.202.243] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_fed44a9ad26e43838943402ef50857d2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] MPTCP sessions in Prague - and Hackathon? X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:23:50 -0000 --_000_fed44a9ad26e43838943402ef50857d2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We have two sessions (this is on the draft agenda, so timings subject to ch= ange - let us know if there are bad conflicts and we ask for a swap): * 15:50-17:50 Tuesday Afternoon session II * 11:50-13:20 Friday Afternoon session II Please let us know if you'd like time to present an update or an idea for d= iscussion. In addition, does anyone want to work on MPTCP during the hackathon? (Satur= day &/or Sunday 15/16 July, free, open to public) https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/agenda.html https://www.ietf.org/hackathon/99-hackathon.html thanks phil & Yoshi --_000_fed44a9ad26e43838943402ef50857d2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

We have two sessions (this is on the draft agenda, so timings subj= ect to change – let us know if there are bad conflicts and we ask for= a swap):

·         15:50-17:50 Tuesday Afternoon session II

·      = ;   11:50-13:20 Friday Afternoon session II

Please let = us know if you’d like time to present an update or an idea for discus= sion.

In addition= , does anyone want to work on MPTCP during the hackathon? (Saturday &/o= r Sunday 15/16 July, free, open to public)

https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/meeting/99/agenda.html

https://www= .ietf.org/hackathon/99-hackathon.html

 

thanks

phil & Yoshi

--_000_fed44a9ad26e43838943402ef50857d2rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 21:04:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857FA120721 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Ja3fC5iTsbS for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8793D126BF3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-f47.google.com (mail-oi0-f47.google.com [209.85.218.47]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7AFC8278720 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:04:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-oi0-f47.google.com with SMTP id c189so2450384oia.2 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyq+qB3VKvjw+esYCrigtwRkORZxCKyCVQlB2QmrW08xQz/9W8U 9ZVGM2JA7JDhGr5Qqx++8ZG5ChGlMQ== X-Received: by 10.202.97.196 with SMTP id v187mr264151oib.216.1498104290192; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.41.220 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:04:49 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d39380db94d0552849658" Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] q about remove addr behavior X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:04:57 -0000 --001a113d39380db94d0552849658 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, In the Chicago meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux which close all subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has been received. (page 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp- sessa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for- airborne-flight-research-00.pdf) As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be recommended. But, do we need more specific guidance here? Thanks, -- Yoshi --001a113d39380db94d0552849658 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
In the Chicago meeting, I remember Joseph men= tioned an issue on linux which close all subflows that use an IP address wh= en rem addr for it has been received.

<= br>
As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be= recommended. But, do we need more specific guidance here?

Thanks,
--
Yoshi
--001a113d39380db94d0552849658-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 00:15:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE38129B08 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:15:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HDaUUlIwnF2j for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-in21.apple.com (mail-out21.apple.com [17.171.2.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0ADC1296C9 for ; 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Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:14:58 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11ab0215-aa5ff70000000cf2-1d-594b6e710c84 Received: from nwk-mmpp-sz12.apple.com (nwk-mmpp-sz12.apple.com [17.128.115.204]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 7F.49.05199.17E6B495; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:14:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_gyBFbxBE1bneZUCok+t1HQ)" Received: from [17.150.223.79] by nwk-mmpp-sz12.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0ORX005CDTGW4040@nwk-mmpp-sz12.apple.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: cpaasch@apple.com From: Christoph Paasch Message-id: <0D08287D-1F1B-44CB-B937-EB38DF0DCA84@apple.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:14:57 -0700 In-reply-to: Cc: MultiPath TCP - IETF WG To: Yoshifumi Nishida References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrELMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FAYpVuU5x1psGificXn1dfZLDYuucHm wOSxZMlPJo+Lr68zBzBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGWcXhZbcEm2YvOzmSwNjA8kuxg5OSQETCQ+ X5jP1MXIxSEksIZJYtP9KawwidUPz7FCJA4xSryYcI0RJMErICjxY/I9FhCbWSBM4tnHUywQ RV8ZJeZf+8IOkhAWkJTovnOHGcRmE9CSeHu7HWgSB1CzjcS04y4QJRYShxfeAytnEVCVmLhh BZjNKRAsse7oaSaQcmYBY4kpM41AwiICehIfvn9kArGFBAIkGmbPYIa4U1bi1uxLzCAnSAgc YZN493En4wRGoVlITp2F5FQIW0vi+6NWIBtkhbzEwfOyEGFNiWf3PrFD2NoST95dYF3AyLaK UTg3MTNHNzPPyFAvsaAgJ1UvOT93EyMoElYzie5gnP/K8BCjAAejEg+vRZ1XpBBrYllxZe4h RmkOFiVxXp/NnpFCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGPs/9e+52MH2maEur2Kt3ZW/ x7+/E3RZ9iZ74W7RHR8neZ+r3+u7Zveh15++aE/6YDvPjce25OQh5rhlWx23H7gW96c9ff+9 9N7KxRa8PXKrOK7c+jGX792Jyaqnbx7NTpn9x+trY86cnUvLGHxPSigKK5T6FjPXdBsGnqlV LEx2Ejv68KDIwgwlluKMREMt5qLiRACT3FkhZQIAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FB8RrcwzzvSYNViNYvPq6+zWWxccoPN gcljyZKfTB4XX19nDmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mo4vSy24JJsxeZnM1kaGB9IdjFyckgImEis fniOtYuRi0NI4BCjxIsJ1xhBErwCghI/Jt9jAbGZBcIknn08xQJR9JVRYv61L+wgCWEBSYnu O3eYQWw2AS2Jt7fbgSZxADXbSEw77gJRYiFxeOE9sHIWAVWJiRtWgNmcAsES646eZgIpZxYw lpgy0wgkLCKgJ/Hh+0cmEFtIIECiYfYMZog7ZSVuzb7EPIGRfxaS62YhuQ7C1pL4/qgVyAaZ Ki9x8LwsRFhT4tm9T+wQtrbEk3cXWBcwsq1iFChKzUmsNNNLLCjISdVLzs/dxAgO28KoHYwN y60OMQpwMCrx8E5o8IoUYk0sK67MBQYRB7OSCK9QqnekEG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrxIcaJjEA/ TmSWEk3OB0ZVXkm8oYmJgYmxsZmxsbmJOS2FlcR5e6Z7RgoJpCeWpGanphakFsEcxcTBKdXA 6Bux58/xW9ujVhnWv7b5WLBLsSjjl/KP5nSufpNJi/+lhTn5RUz+vP7RCwfhND/VSJOJ1+bm 7H1WsaCx1k7w7vX2paqOBWs/pReqKz3OKVy+KDYz+NTSDRaHv6YfveT17mFUpeK1nVYlMXuL Au/35S/XaFv/4tW2lfd590pJydx5ue6T5Cnmz0osxRmJhlrMRcWJAFRPzerOAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about remove addr behavior X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 07:15:02 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_gyBFbxBE1bneZUCok+t1HQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello, > On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida wrote: > In the Chicago meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux which close all subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has been received. > > (page 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for-airborne-flight-research-00.pdf ) > > As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be recommended. But, do we need more specific guidance here? true, in Linux we just close the subflow and do not send keepalives to check whether the subflow is really up or not. I'm not sure if sending keepalives is the right thing to do. Basically, when the peer tells us that this subflow should be removed, why shouldn't a host trust its peer and do as as it says ? The benefit of closing the subflow is that we can stop trying to send data on it and we free those resources. Lingering subflows is a serious problem on the server-side, when clients move away from a WiFi access-point. Christoph --Boundary_(ID_gyBFbxBE1bneZUCok+t1HQ) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello,

On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, = Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp> wrote:
In the Chicago = meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux which close all = subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has been = received.

(page = 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for-airborne-flight-research-00.pdf)

As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be = recommended. But, do we need more specific guidance = here?

true, = in Linux we just close the subflow and do not send keepalives to check = whether the subflow is really up or not.

I'm not sure if sending keepalives is the right = thing to do. Basically, when the peer tells us that this subflow should = be removed, why shouldn't a host trust its peer and do as as it says = ?
The benefit of closing the subflow is that we can stop = trying to send data on it and we free those resources. Lingering = subflows is a serious problem on the server-side, when clients move away = from a WiFi access-point.


Christoph

= --Boundary_(ID_gyBFbxBE1bneZUCok+t1HQ)-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 02:22:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AB1200FC for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:22:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HqHEhMAgMZZt for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C010128B51 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 461FA40481; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:22:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.59]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 0B21A400BB; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:22:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::ec23:902:c31f:731c%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:22:41 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida , JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN CC: multipathtcp Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work Thread-Index: AQHS5tNlIBdM7I0DuEKk/w3PD9Y6VKIwo3NQ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:22:41 +0000 Message-ID: <031d5aac-19f8-4562-8e1c-ccc12840a450@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FE3354@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <13011_1497621751_5943E4F6_13011_234_1_cc838c8f-77e1-4e54-8c1d-52d449cd4c1e@OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_031d5aac19f845628e1cccc12840a450OPEXCLILM43corporateadr_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:22:51 -0000 --_000_031d5aac19f845628e1cccc12840a450OPEXCLILM43corporateadr_ 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DQgLnmvFCu9M for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ACC5128656 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-f53.google.com (mail-oi0-f53.google.com [209.85.218.53]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E87BE278835 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 03:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-oi0-f53.google.com with SMTP id p187so13713137oif.3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:26:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwYi4Tv90UXYRQea48BCXEtxLdlGQItWTKn0/HdhxkiccQoI/xr RC4cU10u7FrYaw2w5XxuWIbMZPJM8g== X-Received: by 10.202.104.144 with SMTP id o16mr2290133oik.158.1498155993640; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:26:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.41.220 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:26:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0D08287D-1F1B-44CB-B937-EB38DF0DCA84@apple.com> References: <0D08287D-1F1B-44CB-B937-EB38DF0DCA84@apple.com> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:26:33 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christoph Paasch Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , MultiPath TCP - IETF WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11409ab2d1ba1e0552909f69" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about remove addr behavior X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:26:40 -0000 --001a11409ab2d1ba1e0552909f69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Christoph, On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Christoph Paasch wrote: > Hello, > > On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida > wrote: > In the Chicago meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux > which close all subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has > been received. > > (page 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-s > essa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for-airbo > rne-flight-research-00.pdf) > > As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be recommended. > But, do we need more specific guidance here? > > > true, in Linux we just close the subflow and do not send keepalives to > check whether the subflow is really up or not. > > I'm not sure if sending keepalives is the right thing to do. Basically, > when the peer tells us that this subflow should be removed, why shouldn't a > host trust its peer and do as as it says ? > The benefit of closing the subflow is that we can stop trying to send data > on it and we free those resources. Lingering subflows is a serious problem > on the server-side, when clients move away from a WiFi access-point. > I am guessing it depends on how implementations are using remove addr feature. We should avoid mixing up addresses and flows. Even if a subflow is removed, it won't be wise to send remove addr when the other subflows use the address. The draft seems to presume a case where an IF has gone, but this kind of events might not be easy to be caught at the TCP layer. -- Yoshi --001a11409ab2d1ba1e0552909f69 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christoph,

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Christoph Pa= asch <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
Hello,

On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida <= nishida@sfc.wid= e.ad.jp> wrote:



--001a11409ab2d1ba1e0552909f69-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 01:24:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9BD129B1A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:24:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ASYSEVFjQz03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 434BB126CD8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-f45.google.com (mail-oi0-f45.google.com [209.85.218.45]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF7CC2784BE for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:24:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-oi0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p66so21787535oia.0 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:24:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzexTbSX7g7eMIEQ24SeZLHMmVnBc91W6bxVYgmOaMRbEm6g1gx O8c2LRZz2JD4MThEnju8EmTnJoMkXA== X-Received: by 10.202.168.130 with SMTP id r124mr3312090oie.91.1498206240493; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:24:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.41.220 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:23:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <031d5aac-19f8-4562-8e1c-ccc12840a450@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FE3354@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <13011_1497621751_5943E4F6_13011_234_1_cc838c8f-77e1-4e54-8c1d-52d449cd4c1e@OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <031d5aac-19f8-4562-8e1c-ccc12840a450@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:23:59 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , "JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN" , multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cd7ecc3dad805529c52a9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 08:24:08 -0000 --001a113cd7ecc3dad805529c52a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 2:22 AM, wrote: > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Thank you for clarifying. > > > > One thing that will be really helpful is to summarize the issues that you > (chairs) think are not clarified during the discussion. > I believe it would be good if we can have simple architecture rather than complex one. If we have to have a complex architecture, I think we will need technological justifications for the complexities to make people convince it's worth for the price. For example, in order to do a) in the previous mail, the proposal requires complex architecture and some layer violations. But, we haven't seen strong justification for it. I think this is mainly for 0-RTT requirement. But, it is still unclear that it's worth for the price or 0-RTT is absolutely necessary. I hope this will explain our points to some extents. -- Yoshi > > > *De :* Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp] > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 16 juin 2017 21:04 > *=C3=80 :* JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN > *Cc :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp > > *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP > proxy work > > > > Hi Med, Christian, > > > > Thanks for the response. I think I understand your point. > > But, one thing I would like to mention is that our consensus can be > archived when all issues are addressed. (see rfc7282) > > We don't think we have found good counter arguments to address or push > away the concerns raised during discussions. > > So, we decide not to adopt the current proposal for now as we think just > counting number of support/unsupport won't be good way to measure consens= us > here. > > > > Also, as we know we have quite lengthy discussions on this draft. > > But, I am not very sure if it is getting matured and not sure if we can > implement it by just reading the draft. > > We start having big concerns how long it will take to publish it. > > > > That's why the chairs think some drastic changes will be necessary. We ar= e > afraid that if we try to update the draft incrementally, we might need to > spend another a year or so for discussions. We thought it will be much > shorter if we do a fresh start based on what we have learned so far. > > > > Anyway, our common purpose is to explore a simple, straightforward and > well-focused and implementable proposal on this topic. > > If you have some ideas to reach this goal, please share. Phil and I are > discussing what's the best options for the WG. > > > > Thanks, > > -- > > Yoshi > > > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:02 AM, wrote: > > WG, > > > > I am too a bit unclear about some of the text of Yoshi=E2=80=99s message. > > > > Like Med, I would like to read it as a confirmation that the proxy work > based upon option #1 that was discussed during the Chicago session and > which reached consensus among the WG members is now an mptcp WG item. > > > > Then, the =E2=80=9Cthe current document is hard for people to understand = the > proposal=E2=80=9D argument reads very speculative to me and I don=E2=80= =99t believe this is > actually an argument per se. > > > > And there=E2=80=99s the notion of =E2=80=9Cfresh approach=E2=80=9D that m= ay be possibly combined > with one of the other options listed in Yoshi=E2=80=99s message, which I = don=E2=80=99t > quite understand from a working procedure standpoint. > > > > We have a document on the table. Let us work on it to address all the > concerns that have been raised so far and those that may arise as we > progress the discussion, like any other typical IETF WG specification > effort. > > > > I=E2=80=99m looking forward to working with you all. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Christian. > > > > *De :* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de= * > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 16 juin 2017 14:56 > *=C3=80 :* Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp > *Objet :* Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP > proxy work > > > > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Thank you for this summary that I read as a confirmation of the consensus > to work on #1 as per the outcome of the last IETF meeting. > > > > I don=E2=80=99t quite understand why the WG should wait for yet another c= ycle > before adopting the document. Sure, the document needs to be updated to > reflect some of outcomes of the discussion and other inputs from the WG. > That=E2=80=99s just the normal IETF process. > > > > I=E2=80=99m afraid there may be confusion between a WGLC and a document a= doption > call. > > > > Having a WG item ASAP will help us fixing issues that are raised or > yet-to-be raised. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org > ] *De la part de* Yoshifumi Nishida > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 15 juin 2017 20:04 > *=C3=80 :* multipathtcp > *Objet :* [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy > work > > > > Thank you for the replies and discussion about the consensus call and > active discussions on this topic. We apologize for the delay in respondin= g. > We have discussed and studies this topic carefully. > > > > In our observation, we believe most people basically support proxy work i= n > the WG along with #1 scenario in page 12 at https://www.ietf.org/procee > dings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-chairs-01.pdf > > > > OTOH, we've seen some folks raised concerns on the proposal. > > > > The chairs have discussed on these concerns and we think the following > points will not be solved in the current proposal without significant > updates. > > > > a) The current proposal requires applications to snoop transit > traffics and modify header information in TCP packets. > > > > b) The current proposal requires to convey information in TCP SYN > packets. This would need to consider cooperation with other WGs, such as > tcpm or tsvwg, to consider any impact on the robustness and security of T= CP. > > > > c) The current document is hard for people to understand the proposal > > > > Based on our assessment of the current situation, we think some > combination of the followings will be required in order to make progress. > > > > - A new draft, based on the existing one but with modifications to > address the concerns > > - A fresh approach > > - A possible update of some of our technology criteria. For example= , > we've seen some people prefer 0-RTT approach, but this might be a bit har= d > requirement and 1 or 2 RTTs could be possible compromise. > > > > Again, we appreciate lots of productive discussions and very sorry for ou= r > slow response. > > If you have comments or questions on our current assessments, please let > us know. > > > > Best regards, > > -- > > Yoshi & Phil > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > --001a113cd7ecc3dad805529c52a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med,

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 2:22 AM, <mohamed.boucadai= r@orange.com> wrote:

Hi Yoshi,

=C2=A0

Thank you for clarifying.

=C2=A0

One thing that will be really hel= pful is to summarize the issues that you (chairs) think are not clarified d= uring the discussion.

=C2=A0
<= div>I believe it would be good if we can have simple architecture rather th= an complex one.
If we have to have a complex architecture, I thin= k we will need technological justifications for the complexities to make pe= ople convince it's worth for the price.

For ex= ample, in order to do a) in the previous mail, the proposal requires comple= x architecture and some layer violations. But, we haven't seen strong j= ustification for it.
I think this is mainly for 0-RTT requirement= . But, it is still unclear that it's worth for the price or 0-RTT is ab= solutely necessary.
I hope this will explain our points to so= me extents.

--
Yoshi

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: vendredi 16 juin 2017 21:04
=C3=80=C2=A0: JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN
Cc=C2=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp=


Objet=C2=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential= MPTCP proxy work

=C2=A0

Hi Med, Christian,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the response. I think I understand your p= oint.=C2=A0

But, one thing I would like to mention is that our c= onsensus can be archived when all issues are addressed. (see rfc7282)

We don't think we have found good counter argume= nts to address or push away the concerns raised during discussions.=C2=A0

So, we decide not to adopt the current proposal for = now as we think just counting number of support/unsupport won't be good= way to measure consensus here.

=C2=A0

Also, as we know we have quite lengthy discussions o= n this draft.=C2=A0

But, I am not very sure if it is getting matured and= not sure if we can implement it by just reading the draft.=C2=A0=

We start having big concerns how long it will take t= o publish it.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

That's why the chairs think some drastic changes= will be necessary. We are afraid that if we try to update the draft increm= entally, we might need to spend another a year or so for discussions. We th= ought it will be much shorter if we do a fresh start based on what we have learned so far. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Anyway, our common purpose is to explore a simple, s= traightforward and well-focused and implementable proposal on this topic.

If you have some ideas to reach this goal, please sh= are. Phil and I are discussing what's the best options for the WG.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

--

Yoshi

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:02 AM, <christian.jacquenet@or= ange.com> wrote:

WG,

=C2=A0

I am too a bit unclear = about some of the text of Yoshi=E2=80=99s message.

=C2=A0

Like Med, I would like = to read it as a confirmation that the proxy work based upon option #1 that was discussed during the Chicago session and which reached consensus = among the WG members is now an mptcp WG item.

=C2=A0

Then, the =E2=80=9Cthe = current document is hard for people to understand the proposal=E2=80=9D arg= ument reads very speculative to me and I don=E2=80=99t believe this is actually an arg= ument per se.

=C2=A0

And there=E2=80=99s the= notion of =E2=80=9Cfresh approach=E2=80=9D that may be possibly combined w= ith one of the other options listed in Yoshi=E2=80=99s message, which I don=E2=80=99t quite und= erstand from a working procedure standpoint.=

=C2=A0

We have a document on t= he table. Let us work on it to address all the concerns that have been raised so far and those that may arise as we progress the discussion, like= any other typical IETF WG specification effort.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m looking for= ward to working with you all.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

=C2=A0

Christian.

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: vendredi 16 juin 2017 14:56
=C3=80=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida; multipathtcp
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential= MPTCP proxy work

=C2=A0

Hi Yoshi,<= /u>

=C2=A0=

Thank you for this summary that I= read as a confirmation of the consensus to work on #1 as per the outcome of the last IETF meeting.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t quite understand = why the WG should wait for yet another cycle before adopting the document. Sure, the document needs to be updated to reflect some of outcomes of the = discussion and other inputs from the WG. That=E2=80=99s just the normal IET= F process.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m afraid there may be c= onfusion between a WGLC and a document adoption call.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Having a WG item ASAP will help u= s fixing issues that are raised or yet-to-be raised.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Yoshifumi Nishida
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: jeudi 15 juin 2017 20:04
=C3=80=C2=A0: multipathtcp
Objet=C2=A0: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPT= CP proxy work

=C2=A0

Thank y= ou for the replies and discussion about the consensus call and active discu= ssions on this topic. We apologize for the delay in responding. We have discussed and studies this topic carefully.<= span lang=3D"EN-US">

=C2=A0

In our observation, we believe most people basically= support proxy work in the WG along with #1 scenario in page 12 at=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/sli= des/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-chairs-01.pdf

=C2=A0

OTOH, we've seen some folks raised concerns on t= he proposal.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The cha= irs have discussed on these concerns and we think the following points will= not be solved in the current proposal without significant updates.

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 a) The current proposal requires applications to snoop transit traff= ics and modify header information in TCP packets.

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 b) The current proposal requires to convey information in TCP SYN pa= ckets. This would need to consider cooperation with other WGs, such as tcpm or tsvwg, to consider any impact on the robustness and s= ecurity of TCP.

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0c) The current document is hard for people to understand the p= roposal

=C2=A0<= /span>

Based o= n our assessment of the current situation, we think=C2=A0some combination o= f the followings will be required in order to make progress.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 -=C2=A0 =C2=A0A new draft, based on the existing one but with modifi= cations to address the concerns

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A fresh approach

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A possible update of some of our technology crite= ria. For example, we've seen some people prefer 0-RTT approach, but thi= s might be a bit hard requirement and 1 or 2 RTTs could be possible compromi= se.

=C2=A0

Again, we appreciate lots of productive discussions = and very sorry for our slow response.=C2=A0<= /u>

If you have comments or questions on our current ass= essments, please let us know.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

--

Yoshi & Phil<= /span>

=C2=A0

____________________________________________=
_________________________________________________________________=
____________
=C2=A0
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir=
 des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=

pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autor=
isation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les p=
ieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alterati=
on,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message=
 a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
=C2=A0
This message and its attachments may contain conf=
idential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<=
/u>
they should not be distributed, used or copied wi=
thout authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please =
notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable fo=
r messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

=C2=A0


--001a113cd7ecc3dad805529c52a9-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 01:48:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA62129B60 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ulDikdGUncv8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 01:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using 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2017 08:47:50 +0000 Message-ID: <8879b5fb-7239-4ff6-8f70-c86e311523e8@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009FE3354@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <13011_1497621751_5943E4F6_13011_234_1_cc838c8f-77e1-4e54-8c1d-52d449cd4c1e@OPEXCNORM4C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <031d5aac-19f8-4562-8e1c-ccc12840a450@OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8879b5fb72394ff68f70c86e311523e8OPEXCLILM43corporateadr_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] Summary for discussions on potential MPTCP proxy work X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 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<149826282802.7840.7541973652364541236.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] mptcp - Requested sessions have been scheduled for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:07:10 -0000 Dear Philip Eardley, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. mptcp Session 1 (2:00:00) Tuesday, Afternoon Session II 1550-1750 Room Name: Athens/Barcelona size: 100 --------------------------------------------- mptcp Session 2 (1:00:00) Friday, Afternoon Session II 1150-1320 Room Name: Congress Hall I size: 250 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Multipath TCP Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Philip Eardley Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours, 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: ippm tcpinc tcpm tsvarea tsvwg lmap tls Second Priority: taps iccrg rtcweb manet Third Priority: nfvrg quic maprg People who must be present: Yoshifumi Nishida Philip Eardley Mirja Kuehlewind Resources Requested: Special Requests: please avoid any transport area BoFs --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Jun 26 23:03:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C06126D46 for ; 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Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11973e16-0c7789a000001f0d-48-5951f530bc38 Received: from nwk-mmpp-sz09.apple.com (nwk-mmpp-sz09.apple.com [17.128.115.80]) by relay2.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 5A.D6.08566.035F1595; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_UPyVWc6oMCwxsVjL7UiD+A)" Received: from [17.149.236.24] by nwk-mmpp-sz09.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170210 64bit (built Feb 10 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0OS60018SZHROJ80@nwk-mmpp-sz09.apple.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: cpaasch@apple.com From: Christoph Paasch Message-id: <2E4C9882-0608-4CE7-9B39-49A870E58DE6@apple.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:03:27 -0700 In-reply-to: Cc: MultiPath TCP - IETF WG To: Yoshifumi Nishida References: <0D08287D-1F1B-44CB-B937-EB38DF0DCA84@apple.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrELMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FDorGvwNTDSYOtaE4vPq6+zWWxccoPN gcljyZKfTB4XX19nDmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpY1/iIqeCbVcXZW6vYGxjvGXUxcnJICJhI tJ88wtLFyMUhJLCaSaLr+37GLkYOsMSj6UwQ8YOMErvPP2EFaeAVEJT4MfkeC4jNLBAm8XrD UiYQW0jgK6PE4ds+ILawgKRE9507zCA2m4CWxNvb7VC9NhK/2t6yQNRYSBxeeI8dxGYRUJWY +/wQI4jNKRAsMfVDJzvIDcwCxhJTZoLdKSKgJ/Hh+0eoe84wStzfs50V4gFZiVuzLzGDJCQE TrBJ/Nx1i3kCo9AsJLfOQnIrhK0l8f1RK1AcZIe8xMHzshBhTYln9z6xQ9jaEk/eXWBdwMi2 ilEoNzEzRzczz1wvsaAgJ1UvOT93EyMoEqbbie1gfLjK6hCjAAejEg/vD6bASCHWxLLiytxD jNIcLErivPlzgEIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoYWxjD03ijMuwv1D+ZwfvOwMbi r226u7LASUaZ+zvUNxcL+7DFd2Wt/vkt7fARJfk+ScunjwvdFGJZM02dV919ajL36toVj6Y/ ubdR6X29ZPr+inePy7dMuDxjeeFFrwjZ43tFo5n+XKz9lPNBL/O6QTbHlv+3pcWSHq4MqJyn ybEma8I3Z10RJZbijERDLeai4kQA5HFuOmUCAAA= X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FAcoGvwNTDSYNlVXYvPq6+zWWxccoPN gcljyZKfTB4XX19nDmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpY1/iIqeCbVcXZW6vYGxjvGXUxcnBICJhI PJrO1MXIxSEkcJBRYvf5J6xdjJwcvAKCEj8m32MBsZkFwiReb1jKBGILCXxllDh82wfEFhaQ lOi+c4cZxGYT0JJ4e7sdqtdG4lfbWxaIGguJwwvvsYPYLAKqEnOfH2IEsTkFgiWmfuhkB7mB WcBYYspMI5CwiICexIfvH6HuOcMocX/PdrCZEgKyErdmX2KewMg/C8l5s5CcB2FrSXx/1AoU BxkrL3HwvCxEWFPi2b1P7BC2tsSTdxdYFzCyrWIUKErNSaw00kssKMhJ1UvOz93ECA7cQucd jMeWWR1iFOBgVOLhDWANjBRiTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwut7BijEm5JYWZValB9fVJqTWnyIcSIj 0JMTmaVEk/OBcZVXEm9oYmJgYmxsZmxsbmJOS2Elcd7+bqCLBNITS1KzU1MLUotgjmLi4JRq YOx8Pe9V4mkfd4MJlddrPkzN1F5yYVmXcpl2m0qZ94HNf+eYThLfO7vUqLUxrnXR9LXfjrG3 tl7yKCgOmuH21O7R/hfCZoV6TKc1P9h5r/4zaU7ie/U2189fXc5Pa1/NumRPvf6DuBKT6/Uf yh8+Vv5dqRWzeVVujU6MBBfzwqYTt7cYTpSYvlSJpTgj0VCLuag4EQB9NTWxzwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about remove addr behavior X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 06:03:31 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_UPyVWc6oMCwxsVjL7UiD+A) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Yoshifumi, > On Jun 22, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Yoshifumi Nishida wrote: > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Christoph Paasch > wrote: > Hello, > >> On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida > wrote: >> In the Chicago meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux which close all subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has been received. >> >> (page 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for-airborne-flight-research-00.pdf ) >> >> As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be recommended. But, do we need more specific guidance here? > > true, in Linux we just close the subflow and do not send keepalives to check whether the subflow is really up or not. > > I'm not sure if sending keepalives is the right thing to do. Basically, when the peer tells us that this subflow should be removed, why shouldn't a host trust its peer and do as as it says ? > The benefit of closing the subflow is that we can stop trying to send data on it and we free those resources. Lingering subflows is a serious problem on the server-side, when clients move away from a WiFi access-point. > > I am guessing it depends on how implementations are using remove addr feature. We should avoid mixing up addresses and flows. > Even if a subflow is removed, it won't be wise to send remove addr when the other subflows use the address. yes, this is different from the way I understood your mails. You mean that we should have per-subflow identifiers instead of address-id's ? > The draft seems to presume a case where an IF has gone, but this kind of events might not be easy to be caught at the TCP layer. I'm not sure I follow you here. Can you clarify ? My comment was with respect to the sentence in the draft: For security purposes, if a host receives a REMOVE_ADDR option, it must ensure the affected path(s) are no longer in use before it instigates closure. That's the part that we do not implement in Linux. Cheers, Christoph --Boundary_(ID_UPyVWc6oMCwxsVjL7UiD+A) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello Yoshifumi,

On Jun 22, 2017, at 11:26 AM, = Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Christoph Paasch = <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
Hello,

On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi = Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp> wrote:
In the Chicago = meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux which close all = subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has been = received.

(page = 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-sessa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for-airborne-flight-research-00.pdf)

As far as I read 6824bis = draft, this behavior seems not to be recommended. But, do we need more = specific guidance here?

true, in Linux we just close the = subflow and do not send keepalives to check whether the subflow is = really up or not.

I'm not sure if sending keepalives is the right thing to do. = Basically, when the peer tells us that this subflow should be removed, = why shouldn't a host trust its peer and do as as it says ?
The benefit of closing the subflow is that we can stop trying = to send data on it and we free those resources. Lingering subflows is a = serious problem on the server-side, when clients move away from a WiFi = access-point.

I am guessing it depends on how = implementations are using remove addr feature. We should avoid mixing up = addresses and flows. 
Even if a subflow is = removed, it won't be wise to send remove addr when the other subflows = use the = address.

yes, this is different from the way I understood = your mails. You mean that we should have per-subflow identifiers instead = of address-id's ?

The draft seems to presume a case where an IF has gone, but = this kind of events might not be easy to be caught at the TCP = layer.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Can you clarify = ?

My comment was with = respect to the sentence in the draft:
For security purposes, if =
a host receives a REMOVE_ADDR option, it
   must ensure the affected path(s) are no longer in use before it
   instigates closure.

That's the part that we do not = implement in Linux.


Cheers,
Christoph




= --Boundary_(ID_UPyVWc6oMCwxsVjL7UiD+A)-- From nobody Thu Jun 29 05:02:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4041204DA for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 05:02:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PgWV1pZh9gyJ for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 05:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vesa.cs.pub.ro (vesa.cs.pub.ro [141.85.227.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E8D129B2B for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 05:02:43 -0700 (PDT) IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AhYsVOhRZe7zp8385cp4qEILVstpsv+yvbD5Q0YIu?= =?us-ascii?q?jvd0So/mwa6yYheN2/xhgRfzUJnB7Loc0qyN4v+mATRIyK3CmUhKSIZLWR4BhJ?= =?us-ascii?q?detC0bK+nBN3fGKuX3ZTcxBsVIWQwt1Xi6NU9IBJS2PAWK8TW94jEIBxrwKxd+?= =?us-ascii?q?KPjrFY7OlcS30P2594HObwlSijewZbF/IA+qoQnNq8IbnZZsJqEtxxXTv3BGYf?= =?us-ascii?q?5WxWRmJVKSmxbz+MK994N9/ipTpvws6ddOXb31cKokQ7NYCi8mM30u683wqRbD?= =?us-ascii?q?VwqP6WACXWgQjxFFHhLK7BD+Xpf2ryv6qu9w0zSUMMHqUbw5Xymp4rx1QxH0li?= =?us-ascii?q?gIKz858HnWisNuiqJbvAmhrAF7z4LNfY2ZKOZycqbbcNgHR2ROQ9xRWjRcDIOy?= =?us-ascii?q?cYUBD+kPM+hWoIbypVQBsQCzChOwCO710DJEmnH70K883u88EQ/GxgsgH9cWvX?= =?us-ascii?q?vbqNX6LrodUeGwzKnJ1zXIcupY2TPh6IfWaB8hp+yMVq93fMrPzUkgDR7KjlSV?= =?us-ascii?q?qYzkJTOZzOMNs2yH7+V+T+2vjXMnphptrTi03MsskpTJiZkPxlDe8iV02YA4Ls?= =?us-ascii?q?C2Rk58ZN6rCppQtyeCOot3XMwiX29otDw9yr0ctp62ejUBxpc/xxPHdvCKfJWE?= =?us-ascii?q?7gjgWeuROzt0mmxpdbClixu86USs1+LxWtSu3FtJridJiMfAu34D2hDJ98SKRe?= =?us-ascii?q?Vx80G80jiVzQ/T8PtLIUUsmKreLJ4u36A/m4IIsUTGAi/2gEL2jLKKdkk8+uin?= =?us-ascii?q?9eDnYrL+q5+CMo97kAD+MqA0lsOjGuQ0KBAOX3WA9uimzr3j+lX1QLRMjvIojq?= =?us-ascii?q?nUqI3WKMsGqqKjAAJY0pwv5wihAzqkytgVk2ELLFdfdxKGi4jpNUvOIPf9Dfqn?= =?us-ascii?q?nVSslC1kyO3HPr3kA5XNNGLPkLDlfbZh9UFT0gwzzc1E6p1IEbENOurzWlLqu9?= =?us-ascii?q?DCFB85NBS4w/z7B9VlyoMeRWWPD7ecMKPPtV+I+uMvI/GWa48JuDb9N+Qq5+b1?= =?us-ascii?q?gH84h1AdYaep0YEQaHCiEfQ1a3meNH/xhssACW4WvhY1VKS+jUCGTT9LbmqyQ6?= =?us-ascii?q?kkzjA2FIzgCp3MENODmruEiRm/F5FXY2FcQneIDXrhcZjMD+kIYS6TJ8571DsA?= =?us-ascii?q?SbWoTZIJ3grorBLwjaBgeLmHshYEvI7ugYAmr9bYkgs/oHktV5yQ?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2CiAwCU61RZjAPjVY1dHQEFAQsBGAEFA?= =?us-ascii?q?QsBhBEDgQuOeJBzmAwuhWkDAgKDZQEBAQEBAQEBAgESAQEBJleCMyQBgkABAwM?= =?us-ascii?q?jVhAcAwECKwICTwgGDQYCAQGKLwyySoImKYsgAQEBAQYBAQEBAQEigyeDTIIMh?= =?us-ascii?q?02DKYJhBYlbhmqBBY0sghyFII5CVoEPg2WDS4Z4lSgCVoELMCFXhUuBdXMBiUA?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2CiAwCU61RZjAPjVY1dHQEFAQsBGAEFAQsBhBEDgQuOeJB?= =?us-ascii?q?zmAwuhWkDAgKDZQEBAQEBAQEBAgESAQEBJleCMyQBgkABAwMjVhAcAwECKwICT?= =?us-ascii?q?wgGDQYCAQGKLwyySoImKYsgAQEBAQYBAQEBAQEigyeDTIIMh02DKYJhBYlbhmq?= =?us-ascii?q?BBY0sghyFII5CVoEPg2WDS4Z4lSgCVoELMCFXhUuBdXMBiUABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,280,1496091600"; d="scan'208,217";a="861603" Received: from mail.cs.pub.ro (HELO vmail.cs.pub.ro) ([141.85.227.3]) by vesa.cs.pub.ro with ESMTP; 29 Jun 2017 15:02:40 +0300 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8901A600CA; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:02:40 +0300 (EEST) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vmail.cs.pub.ro [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id l6t2hazxwcsb; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:02:40 +0300 (EEST) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E2411A60151; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:02:40 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [172.19.2.57] (unknown [141.85.233.142]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 893451A600CA; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:02:40 +0300 (EEST) References: <149871247634.6490.5928844232347189122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: multipathtcp Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Drago=c8=99_Niculescu?= From: Vladimir Olteanu X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <149871247634.6490.5928844232347189122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <96151c77-fd31-f6ca-dca0-bffb9780f89f@cs.pub.ro> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:02:40 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149871247634.6490.5928844232347189122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3F39C2FDC1990B90CFADC54F" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] SOCKS 6 Draft X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 12:02:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3F39C2FDC1990B90CFADC54F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, We have submitted a draft describing a new version of the SOCKS=20 protocol, which could help in the deployment of MPTCP. You can find the=20 abstract and a link to the draft below. Best, Vlad and Drago=C8=99 -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00.t= xt Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:01:16 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Vladimir Olteanu , Dragos Niculescu=20 A new version of I-D, draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Vladimir Olteanu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6 Revision: 00 Title: SOCKS Protocol Version 6 Document date: 2017-06-28 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 12 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-olteanu-intare= a-socks-6-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-olteanu-intarea-so= cks-6/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6= -00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-olteanu-intar= ea-socks-6-00 Abstract: The SOCKS protocol is used primarily to proxy TCP connections to arbitrary destinations via the use of a proxy server. Under the latest version of the protocol (version 5), it takes 2 RTTs (or 3, if authentication is used) before data can flow between the client and the server. This memo proposes SOCKS version 6, which reduces the number of RTTs used, takes full advantage of TCP Fast Open, and adds support for 0-RTT authentication. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------3F39C2FDC1990B90CFADC54F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

We have submitted a draft describing a new version of the SOCKS protocol, which could help in the deployment of MPTCP. You can find the abstract and a link to the draft below.

Best,
Vlad and Drago=C8=99



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00.txt
Dat= e: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:01:16 -0700
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Vladimir Olteanu <vladimir.olteanu@cs.pub.ro>, Dragos Niculescu <dragos.niculescu@cs.pub.ro> 


A new version of I-D, draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Vladimir Olteanu and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6
Revision:	00
Title:		SOCKS Protocol Version 6
Document date:	2017-06-28
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		12
URL:            https://www.=
ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ie=
tf.org/doc/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00
Htmlized:       https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-00


Abstract:
   The SOCKS protocol is used primarily to proxy TCP connections to
   arbitrary destinations via the use of a proxy server.  Under the
   latest version of the protocol (version 5), it takes 2 RTTs (or 3, if
   authentication is used) before data can flow between the client and
   the server.

   This memo proposes SOCKS version 6, which reduces the number of RTTs
   used, takes full advantage of TCP Fast Open, and adds support for
   0-RTT authentication.

                                                                         =
        =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat
--------------3F39C2FDC1990B90CFADC54F-- From nobody Thu Jun 29 06:20:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454A012EC36 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 06:20:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pc3ldE9_69VO for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 06:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (smtp.sgsi.ucl.ac.be [130.104.5.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13FE912EC32 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 06:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.104.228.12] (1o0-328.dhcp.info.ucl.ac.be [130.104.228.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: qdeconinck@smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be) by smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 945C267DF4E for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:19:49 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp4.sgsi.ucl.ac.be 945C267DF4E DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=uclouvain.be; s=selucl; t=1498742389; bh=m6VQ//dt5X3ON5maafZj7prsQoW4lLfMPs4vZtCCB3E=; h=From:Subject:To:Date; b=A9bPqofCoNEyfaOaKeEBf9RisSJbgE4U+lwPDlhOST/OsU2H+dqopVhdupYN4Cw67 XuiqqsLHOABVM1pIK8K5kcfAwZo0e0K9sdHq7b0fzKAEd/rUacCkKdp1o2Nv+QX2Ys 11JsqacS6A0O1KuJYgR39KHhYb1pRZwKtaIo7JMQ= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at smtp-4 From: Quentin De Coninck To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:19:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Sgsi-Spamcheck: SASL authenticated, X-SGSI-Information: X-SGSI-MailScanner-ID: 945C267DF4E.A6C96 X-SGSI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SGSI-From: quentin.deconinck@uclouvain.be X-SGSI-Spam-Status: No Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] Proposition to enable data exchange when creating new additional subflows X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 13:20:04 -0000 Hello all, We recently published a technical report, "Every Millisecond Counts: Tuning Multipath TCP for Interactive Applications on Smartphones", available at http://hdl.handle.net/2078.1/185717. One of the contributions of this work is to propose a new Multipath TCP option allowing hosts to send data when creating additional subflows. While TCP Fast Option relies on cookies exchanges, state is exchanged during Multipath TCP option and can thus be leveraged to achieve 0-RTT additional subflow establishments. If interested, we can present our proposition at Prague. Regards, -- Quentin De Coninck FNRS Research Fellow - PhD Student ICTEAM / INGI Ecole Polytechnique de Louvain B – 1348 LOUVAIN-LA-NEUVE (Belgium) From nobody Thu Jun 29 14:13:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4A01274D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKGHSAgO6ZIp for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08CD7127369 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f46.google.com (mail-wm0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A4DE2278628 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:13:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-wm0-f46.google.com with SMTP id w126so93381428wme.0 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwjFaikprjSCRYWYFS9ikCsVRWg2dqreoIeEKyy75BrewwCI+vb beY6jTgbBTtSuNX1r8sPL8nby1WviA== X-Received: by 10.80.206.22 with SMTP id y22mr3098933edi.20.1498770813717; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.163.180 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2E4C9882-0608-4CE7-9B39-49A870E58DE6@apple.com> References: <0D08287D-1F1B-44CB-B937-EB38DF0DCA84@apple.com> <2E4C9882-0608-4CE7-9B39-49A870E58DE6@apple.com> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:13:33 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christoph Paasch Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , MultiPath TCP - IETF WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1b2ac6f3991b05531fc58d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] q about remove addr behavior X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:13:41 -0000 --94eb2c1b2ac6f3991b05531fc58d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Christoph, On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Christoph Paasch wrote: > Hello Yoshifumi, > > On Jun 22, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Yoshifumi Nishida > wrote: > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Christoph Paasch > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida >> wrote: >> In the Chicago meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux >> which close all subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has >> been received. >> >> (page 13 in https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-mptcp-s >> essa-channel-bonding-of-low-rate-links-using-mptcp-for-airbo >> rne-flight-research-00.pdf) >> >> As far as I read 6824bis draft, this behavior seems not to be >> recommended. But, do we need more specific guidance here? >> >> >> true, in Linux we just close the subflow and do not send keepalives to >> check whether the subflow is really up or not. >> >> I'm not sure if sending keepalives is the right thing to do. Basically, >> when the peer tells us that this subflow should be removed, why shouldn't a >> host trust its peer and do as as it says ? >> The benefit of closing the subflow is that we can stop trying to send >> data on it and we free those resources. Lingering subflows is a serious >> problem on the server-side, when clients move away from a WiFi access-point. >> > > I am guessing it depends on how implementations are using remove addr > feature. We should avoid mixing up addresses and flows. > Even if a subflow is removed, it won't be wise to send remove addr when > the other subflows use the address. > > > yes, this is different from the way I understood your mails. You mean that > we should have per-subflow identifiers instead of address-id's ? > > The draft seems to presume a case where an IF has gone, but this kind of > events might not be easy to be caught at the TCP layer. > > > I'm not sure I follow you here. Can you clarify ? > > My comment was with respect to the sentence in the draft: > > For security purposes, if a host receives a REMOVE_ADDR option, it > must ensure the affected path(s) are no longer in use before it > instigates closure. > > > That's the part that we do not implement in Linux. > Sorry. I was not clear enough. What I thought was what would be a trigger for issuing remove addr in linux. I understand linux does not have the part you mentioned. But, if so, I guess triggering remove addr when a P2P interface has gone might not be a very good idea.. -- Yoshi --94eb2c1b2ac6f3991b05531fc58d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christoph,

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Christoph Paasch <cpaas= ch@apple.com> wrote:
Hello Yoshifumi,

On Jun 22, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Yoshifumi Nishida <<= a href=3D"mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank">nishida@sfc.wide= .ad.jp> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Christop= h Paasch <cpaasch@apple.com> wrote:
Hello,

On Jun 21, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Yoshifumi Nishida= <nishida@sf= c.wide.ad.jp> wrote:
In the Chi= cago meeting, I remember Joseph mentioned an issue on linux which close all= subflows that use an IP address when rem addr for it has been received.


As far as I read 6824bis draft,= this behavior seems not to be recommended. But, do we need more specific g= uidance here?

true= , in Linux we just close the subflow and do not send keepalives to check wh= ether the subflow is really up or not.

I'm not= sure if sending keepalives is the right thing to do. Basically, when the p= eer tells us that this subflow should be removed, why shouldn't a host = trust its peer and do as as it says ?
The benefit of closing the = subflow is that we can stop trying to send data on it and we free those res= ources. Lingering subflows is a serious problem on the server-side, when cl= ients move away from a WiFi access-point.

I am guessing it depends on how implementations are = using remove addr feature. We should avoid mixing up addresses and flows.= =C2=A0
Even if a subflow is removed, it won't be wise to send= remove addr when the other subflows use the address.

yes, this is differen= t from the way I understood your mails. You mean that we should have per-su= bflow identifiers instead of address-id's ?=C2=A0

=
The draft s= eems to presume a case where an IF has gone, but this kind of events might = not be easy to be caught at the TCP layer.

I'm not sure I follow you he= re. Can you clarify ?

My comment was with respect= to the sentence in the draft:
For security purposes, if a host receives a =
REMOVE_ADDR option, it
   must ensure the affected path(s) are no longer in use before it
   instigates closure.

That's the part t= hat we do not implement in Linux.

Sorry. I was not clear enough. What I thought was what would be a trigge= r for issuing remove addr in linux.
I understand linux does not h= ave the part you mentioned.=C2=A0
But, if so, I guess triggering = remove addr when a P2P interface has gone might not be a very good idea..
--
Yoshi=C2=A0
--94eb2c1b2ac6f3991b05531fc58d-- From nobody Thu Jun 29 15:08:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9746B1294C8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DIq5hYo_eb32 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 618A4129AA3 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f47.google.com (mail-wm0-f47.google.com [74.125.82.47]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 55E33278615 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 07:08:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-wm0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 62so94590733wmw.1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwWUpA/XC9moJR4jbjz+Y21KidvqQLNZJugm/PypzpgoO6zmjE1 POHgKlsXR2UxFMSVTz0obAD7nrdF1w== X-Received: by 10.80.139.65 with SMTP id l59mr3178648edl.52.1498774102441; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.163.180 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:21 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: multipathtcp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c194a06f98add0553208905" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP sessions in Prague - and Hackathon? X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:08:29 -0000 --94eb2c194a06f98add0553208905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, If you're planning to present something at the Prague meetings, please provide us the following info. Also, if you want to do it from remote, please let us know about it as well so that we can arrange meetecho. 1: presenter's name 2: title 3: length of the presentation Thanks, -- Yoshi & Phil On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:23 AM, wrote: > > Hi, > > We have two sessions (this is on the draft agenda, so timings subject to change =E2=80=93 let us know if there are bad conflicts and we ask for a sw= ap): > > =C2=B7 15:50-17:50 Tuesday Afternoon session II > > =C2=B7 11:50-13:20 Friday Afternoon session II > > Please let us know if you=E2=80=99d like time to present an update or an = idea for discussion. > > In addition, does anyone want to work on MPTCP during the hackathon? (Saturday &/or Sunday 15/16 July, free, open to public) > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/agenda.html > > https://www.ietf.org/hackathon/99-hackathon.html > > > > thanks > > phil & Yoshi --94eb2c194a06f98add0553208905 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

If you're planning to present something = at the Prague meetings, please provide us the following info.=C2=A0
Als= o, if you want to do it from remote, please let us know about it as well so= that we can arrange meetecho.

=C2=A0 =C2=A01: presenter's name<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A02: title
=C2=A0 =C2=A03: length of the presentation
=

Thanks,
--
Yoshi & Phil


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 = at 4:23 AM, <philip.eardley@bt.= com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We have two sessions= (this is on the draft agenda, so timings subject to change =E2=80=93 let u= s know if there are bad conflicts and we ask for a swap):
>
> = =C2=B7 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15:50-17:50 Tuesday Afternoon session II=
>
> =C2=B7 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 11:50-13:20 Friday Afte= rnoon session II
>
> Please let us know if you=E2=80=99d like t= ime to present an update or an idea for discussion.
>
> In addi= tion, does anyone want to work on MPTCP during the hackathon? (Saturday &am= p;/or Sunday 15/16 July, free, open to public)
>
> https://datatracker.iet= f.org/meeting/99/agenda.html
>
> https://www.ietf.org/hackathon/99-hackat= hon.html
>
> =C2=A0
>
> thanks
>
> = phil & Yoshi

--94eb2c194a06f98add0553208905-- From nobody Fri Jun 30 20:26:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: multipathtcp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B837B131524 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:26:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zHt1lWuDdHyx for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43ABE131525 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id d78so114123049qkb.1 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:25:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1jva7nbMvvzFfwwd+Ya/seMqV5761tJpg3Y1Ll85GCg=; b=FRSS/fBFOEWrO2YEjjgmt5Elc2YWW/dOmJv+SYRBvGgMTlbF82cYyh+yDvCDmrrA5a YAAGPGD2RV6Aypbt08EH7hNkOADSnDp+ixagv3d4OaziuFuAeW6WDEf1g47aTQtTrMrv gqLdDSpih3CzFtAhZElWseJVShiBTKgAWXCVEgs5PV3XVnaJdkq+y90HJOmpbivSfqNI mO9fK9waEshaJsdkMhHjb/3NmuSYcpnWDzD/XBYLhRmNhOi5msQsfTbUqOimc/3fs9Cg ml8mEZtCzqJcObwF9SZGfd5cTUcJ7epuSaCYvMSw8iy3OeLaeR9WRMC+JI/eVkucqCgX fhyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1jva7nbMvvzFfwwd+Ya/seMqV5761tJpg3Y1Ll85GCg=; b=oNtIlQjTuRWAOQCn3oOcMTqc8Jd3yQvINw1w0oYOTpcppgFKw8ewuAooC0vOPx1IGQ y5oFITxsR8BpNYeoHMrBygxoeNMCmTavEnvA/8LfFKL8yfuxpINCK2bp0QamsDvQRjWY 6qXqJyjyAKGf6bDrJkO7jYfmJwr/KzIVGy92PY3vTkzbjDJyktk5uyHZTBWCx9F9AGQq 4tPNUDJm6ubWhczitY0Ys431RNaJSswWPi3xxMNRpLrcnqgWDq0QjLR/nCD54uvifFA1 RLrV37tu1B1Jong4l5CWol7KGU7t3+nLK14C/P2S7sYXc+FDJhLuYTfFPgtOviwr2o6u sk+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxyhQqP5KnLkBQWOHKTCSBjigj6TBHHrBiISN7UtnLPbBRvEEnT Eb9GYDeJcEYRYKar4cXR9a4nJDGEag== X-Received: by 10.55.43.42 with SMTP id r42mr29744197qkh.93.1498879557152; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:25:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.60.117 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: samar shailendra Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 08:55:16 +0530 Message-ID: To: multipathtcp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145783490b2df0553391745" Archived-At: Subject: [multipathtcp] Query about different in Path and Subflow in MPTCP ! X-BeenThere: multipathtcp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-path extensions for TCP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2017 03:26:02 -0000 --001a1145783490b2df0553391745 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am not able to understand the difference in Path and Subflow in MPTCP. Are these terms to the same thing (i.e. a tuple at TCP layer) or there are some differences ? Thanking in anticipation for any insight... Regards, Samar --001a1145783490b2df0553391745 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0I am not able to understand the difference in P= ath and Subflow in MPTCP. Are these terms to the same thing (i.e. a tuple a= t TCP layer) or there are some differences ?

=C2=A0Thanki= ng in anticipation for any insight...
=C2=A0
Regards,
Samar
--001a1145783490b2df0553391745--