From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Olaf Kolkman <olaf@ripe.net>
Subject: DNSEXT list policy
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:35:01 +0200
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- List Purpose

  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org is the mailing list for the IETF DNSEXT
  working group.  

  See <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsext-charter.html> for the
  wg charter.  Messages should be on topics appropriate to the dnsext
  wg, which are various discussion of the DNS protocols or
  administrivia of the WG itself.

- Specific items that are not not appropriate for posting

  Calls for papers, announcements of events not directly relevant to
  the DNS protocols, etc. are not appropriate.  

  Discussion of problems with particular implementations,
  announcements of releases, sites' misconfigurations, pleas for help
  with specific implementations, etc.  should be done on mailing lists
  for the particular implementations.

  There is a working group for dns operational practice, DNSOP, whose
  charter can be found at
  <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsop-charter.html>. Items
  relevant to the DNSOP charter are to be discussed on the DNSOP
  mailinglist.

  Discussion about the quality of implementations is outside the scope
  of this list.

- Moderation

  Moderation is based on "subscriber-only with spam filter".

  Questions or concerns related to the acceptance or rejection of
  specific messages to the namedroppers mailing list should first be
  discussed with the wg chairs, with followup appeals using the normal
  appeals process of rfc 2026 (i.e., follup with area directors, then
  iesg, etc.).

  There is a mailing list for the discussion of ietf processes, which
  includes any general discussion of the moderation of ietf mailing
  lists.  it is poised@lists.tislabs.com

- Issue Tracker

  As of October 2003 this group will use an issue tracker. This is to
  better organize the work-flow, maintain overview over, and focus the
  discussions to the working group documents. 

  Please stick to the following procedure when discussing working
  group work documents.

  == The system

  The issue tracker can be found at: 
  
  https://roundup.machshav.com/dnsext/index 

  The chairs are responsible for maintaining the data in the issue
  tracker. That task may be delegated to document editors. If a
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  == Creating a new issue.

  New Issue tickets are only created for working group document.

  If you have an issue a document please sent in a mail with a subject
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  <NAME> ISSUE: <title>

  Where <NAME> is taken from the I-D's file name
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  Please use the following template to submit an issue:


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    Document: draft-ietf-dnsext-<name>-<version>
    Section: Insert_Section_Number_Here

    Rationale/Explanation of issue:
         Length description of problem


    Requested change:
         Proposal
  

  The proposal for the requested change is the most important bit of
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  Once a new "ISSUE" message is received on the list the chairs or
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  == Closing of issues.

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---

NOTE WELL:

All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the 
IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants 
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Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, 
that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or 
function, are not subject to these provisions.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
$Id: dnsext-list-policy.txt,v 1.4 2003/09/25 08:26:13 olaf Exp $

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: David Fort <david.fort@irisa.fr>
Subject: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:37:30 +0200
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The IDsA project (http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?lang=en) has just the 
second release candidate
for KROd 1.0.
KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
used to "DNSSECify" normal DNS zones.
KROd is still an experimental product and as such shouldn't be used in 
production
environment.

More informations/downloads can be found here:
    http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?page=kro&lang=en

-- 
Fort David, Projet IDsA
IRISA-INRIA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes cedex, France
Tél: +33 (0) 2 99 84 71 33



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com
Subject: Re: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:04:02 +0000
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On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:37:30PM +0200, David Fort wrote:
> The IDsA project (http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?lang=en) has just the 
> second release candidate
> for KROd 1.0.
> KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
> used to "DNSSECify" normal DNS zones.
> KROd is still an experimental product and as such shouldn't be used in 
> production
> environment.
> 
> More informations/downloads can be found here:
>    http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?page=kro&lang=en
> 
> -- 
> Fort David, Projet IDsA
> IRISA-INRIA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes cedex, France
> Tél: +33 (0) 2 99 84 71 33


	very experimental....

	"... unable to find the file or directory named
	/local/idsa/code/kro/KROd-1.0tc2.tar.bz2
	Check the name and try again."

--bill

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com
Subject: Re: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:11:32 +0000
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On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:37:30PM +0200, David Fort wrote:
> KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
> used to "DNSSECify" normal DNS zones.
> KROd is still an experimental product and as such shouldn't be used in 
> production
> environment.
> 
> More informations/downloads can be found here:
>    http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?page=kro&lang=en
> 
> -- 
> Fort David, Projet IDsA

	Ah... reverting to the more primative (but in many ways, more flexable)
	native FTP....


ftp> ls
227 Entering Passive Mode (131,254,254,10,179,49)
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
total 2656
drwxr-xr-x   2 4779     29016       8192 Mar 11 16:36 .
drwxr-xr-x  10 4779     29016       8192 Feb 16 12:48 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     127417 Feb 16 12:49 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     237854 Feb 23 13:58 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     325688 Mar  1 16:21 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc3.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     325963 Mar 11 09:55 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc4.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     176701 Feb 16 12:49 KROd-1.0rc1.tar.gz
-rw-r-----   1 4779     29016     129864 Mar 11 16:37 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
226 Transfer complete.
ftp> get KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
local: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2 remote: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
227 Entering Passive Mode (131,254,254,10,112,150)
550 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2: Permission denied.
ftp> 

	Please correct the file permissions...  and using gzip (like everying
	else in the directory) would be a nod to consistancy.  :)

--bill

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: David Fort <david.fort@irisa.fr>
Subject: Re: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:23:48 +0200
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bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:

>On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:37:30PM +0200, David Fort wrote:
>  
>
>>KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
>>    
>>
>  
>
[...]

>-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     176701 Feb 16 12:49 KROd-1.0rc1.tar.gz
>-rw-r-----   1 4779     29016     129864 Mar 11 16:37 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
>226 Transfer complete.
>ftp> get KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
>local: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2 remote: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
>227 Entering Passive Mode (131,254,254,10,112,150)
>550 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2: Permission denied.
>  
>
Corrected

-- 
Fort David, Projet IDsA
IRISA-INRIA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes cedex, France
Tél: +33 (0) 2 99 84 71 33



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:31:11 -0400
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Threat Analysis Of The Domain Name System
	Author(s)	: D. Atkins, R. Austein
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
	Pages		: 16
	Date		: 2004-4-5
	
Although the DNS Security Extensions (DNSSEC) have been under
   development for most of the last decade, the IETF has never written
   down the specific set of threats against which DNSSEC is designed to
   protect.  Among other drawbacks, this cart-before-the-horse situation
   has made it difficult to determine whether DNSSEC meets its design
   goals, since its design goals are not well specified.  This note
   attempts to document some of the known threats to the DNS, and, in
   doing so, attempts to measure to what extent (if any) DNSSEC is a
   useful tool in defending against these threats.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: Q31:  Validator behavior for islands of security
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:10:18 -0400
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Question:  What is default behavior when a validator cannot get a secure
entry point into an island of security?

In proto-05 section 5.1, there is the discussion on the resolution process
and islands of security (or self-signed zones with no secure delegation).
The last sentence in the first paragraph reads:

     If a validator cannot obtain such a key, it will have
     to choose whether to accept the unvalidated responses
     or not based on local policy.

The suggested change:

	If a validator cannot obtain such a key, it
      SHOULD switch to operating as if the zones
	in the island of security are unsigned.

Background:
RFC 2535 mentions islands of security, but gives no specific handling
instructions.  RFC
3090 (DNS Security Extensions on Zone Status) section 1.2 states that "The
only way in which a DNSSEC resolver will come to trust any data from this
island is if the resolver is pre-configured with the zone key(s)... Other
resolvers (not so configured) will recognize this island as unsecured."
This change attempts to bring the spec in line (and strengthen) with RFC
3090.

This question is not an attempt to raise the same topics as DNSSECbis Q28 on
how a validator and resolver should act with regards to unsigned or invalid
signatures.

This has not be explicitly discussed on namedroppers (to my knowledge).
Section 5.1 does not go into detail how a validator treats unsigned zones,
but that was to be discussed in another section on classifying responses.
Simply put, Section 5.1 should only state that the data should be treated as
unsigned.  How unsigned data is handled by the validator and the info given
back to the resolver are discussed in other sections.

Deadline:
If there is no specific reason not to change this paragraph in Section 5.1,
the change will be made by April 19.


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Rob Austein <sra@isc.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:47:48 -0400
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For those who have not been following the exciting details in the
draft tracker: this is the final version of this draft, which
addresses the last of the issues that came up during IETF last call
and IESG review.  As far as the authors know, we are done, and we
expect formal IESG publication approval within a few days.

We don't think any of the recent changes are controversial, but:

a) If anyone thinks there's a show-stopping problem with the changes,
   speak up now;

b) No new issues, please, it's past time to ship this puppy.

Change logs available at http://www.hactrn.net/ietf/dns/threats/

--Rob and Derek

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:16:20 +0900
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Rob Austein wrote:

> For those who have not been following the exciting details in the
> draft tracker: this is the final version of this draft, which
> addresses the last of the issues that came up during IETF last call
> and IESG review.  As far as the authors know, we are done, and we
> expect formal IESG publication approval within a few days.

Can someone explain why "Name Chaining attacks" are
harmful?

As far as I understand, name chaining is, first, to let
the victim access a name of attackers choice and, secondly,
to let the victim access names of attackers choice.

So, if the attacker can control the first name, why it
is more harmful that the attacker can control the
subsequent accesses?

If the attacker can control the first name and the victim
is not protected from cache poisoning, the attacker can
inject a lot of false information with the first access
that I can see no point of chaining.

					Masataka Ohta



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:36:25 -0400
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I think the new version is good.  From my reading of the draft "name
chaining" sounds like a slightly better term for that class of attacks.

I do not see any show-stopper problems.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
> [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Rob Austein
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:48 PM
> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
>
>
> For those who have not been following the exciting details in the
> draft tracker: this is the final version of this draft, which
> addresses the last of the issues that came up during IETF last call
> and IESG review.  As far as the authors know, we are done, and we
> expect formal IESG publication approval within a few days.
>
> We don't think any of the recent changes are controversial, but:
>
> a) If anyone thinks there's a show-stopping problem with the changes,
>    speak up now;
>
> b) No new issues, please, it's past time to ship this puppy.
>
> Change logs available at http://www.hactrn.net/ietf/dns/threats/
>
> --Rob and Derek
>
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: DNSSECbis editors' comment on caching TTL
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:11:36 -0400
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Correcting RRSIG expiration time and TTL for caching.
 
In RFC 2535, the TTL for caching an RRset was given as the minimum value of
the TTL vs. the value (RRSIG expiration time - current time).  However, the
current DNSSECbis protocol draft Section 5.3.3, which states how to
calculate the TTL based on the DNSSEC records, inadvertently dropped this
requirement.

Therefore, this requirement for limiting the TTL based on the RRSIG expiry
time will be corrected in Section 5.3.3 of the protocol draft.  This will
bring the protocol draft in line with the original RFC 2535.

Thank you,
DNSSEC editors group

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Rob Austein <sra@isc.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:51:44 -0400
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At Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:16:20 +0900, Masataka Ohta wrote:
> 
> Can someone explain why "Name Chaining attacks" are harmful?
> 
> As far as I understand, name chaining is, first, to let the victim
> access a name of attackers choice and, secondly, to let the victim
> access names of attackers choice.
> 
> So, if the attacker can control the first name, why it is more
> harmful that the attacker can control the subsequent accesses?
> 
> If the attacker can control the first name and the victim is not
> protected from cache poisoning, the attacker can inject a lot of
> false information with the first access that I can see no point of
> chaining.

Relevance checks can protect against many forms of name-based attacks,
but not against name-chaining attacks.

Eg, pretend (for purposes of discussion, no insult intended) that
you're silly enough to run an HTML-vulnerable MUA, an attacker sends
you a web bug linking to http://very.evil.example, and your MUA duely
generates a query for very.evil.example.  If the name server for
evil.example replies to your query for very.evil.example by telling
you that important.example.org is at some random IP address
(presumably controlled by the attacker), your resolver's relevance
checks will reject this response because an answer about
important.example.org isn't relevant to a query for very.evil.example.

If, however, the name server for evil.example tells you that
very.evil.example is served by important.example.org and oh, by the
way, here's the address of important.example.org, your resolver will
think that the address of important.example.org is relevant, will
probably believe it, and will probably cache it.  Oops.  There are
other variants (eg, long CNAME chains), but that's the basic idea.

The important characteristic of this class of attacks is that they
allow the attacker to introduce a new name into the protocol exchange
as a side effect of what looks like a normal protocol operation.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: Q32:  Adding the DNSKEY TTL as a factor when determining RRset TTL
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:25:09 -0400
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Q32:  Adding the DNSKEY TTL as a factor when determining RRset TTL

Section 5.3.3 of the protocol document discusses how a cache should
calculate the TTL value for a RRset based on a number of factors:

- The RRset's TTL as received in the response

- The RRSIG RR's TTL as received in the response

- The value in the RRSIG RR's Original TTL field

- The difference between RRSIG expiration time and the current time.

The last being corrected from a previous error on the editors' part.

The comment given to the editors group was to add the follow constraint to
that list:

- The validating DNSKEY’s TTL

Discussion:
The case for this constraint is that if the DNSKEY has expired, then the
RRSIGs it has validated should also expire.  The DNSKEY may have rolled over
during the time period and the RRSIGs may no longer be valid.  It is
possibly out of date information.

The case against this constraint is that if the DNSKEY is purged from the
cache, it does not necessarily mean the RRSIGs have expired (they possibly
have not reached their expiration time).  The RRSIGs and DNSKEY may still be
in use by the authoritative zone.

It is the editors' opinion is that this additional constraint is not
necessary.  If WG members think that it is necessary, please state so and
supply text for Section 5.3.3 cache value recommendation.

Deadline for discussion is April 19th  Default action is to NOT ADD the
suggested constraint.  Otherwise, please state reason why the constraint is
useful and suggest text.


Thanks,
The DNSSEC editors group


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:56:02 +0900
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Rob Austein;

Thank you for the explanation.

>>Can someone explain why "Name Chaining attacks" are harmful?
>>
>>As far as I understand, name chaining is, first, to let the victim
>>access a name of attackers choice and, secondly, to let the victim
>>access names of attackers choice.
>>
>>So, if the attacker can control the first name, why it is more
>>harmful that the attacker can control the subsequent accesses?
>>
>>If the attacker can control the first name and the victim is not
>>protected from cache poisoning, the attacker can inject a lot of
>>false information with the first access that I can see no point of
>>chaining.

> Relevance checks can protect against many forms of name-based attacks,
> but not against name-chaining attacks.

That is a result of improper relevance checks, I think.

The only meaningful relevance check MUST be (save that for
glues) that the names are at or below the zone served by
the current server, which is not affected by chaining.

If implementations are doing otherwise, they are poor, I
believe.

> If, however, the name server for evil.example tells you that
> very.evil.example is served by important.example.org and oh, by the
> way, here's the address of important.example.org, your resolver will
> think that the address of important.example.org is relevant, will
> probably believe it, and will probably cache it.

For a glue, it is necessary to check the dereference point is
at or below the zone of the current server and to tag the cache
entry of glues with the corresponding dereference points so
that the entries are not used for other purposes (normal As or
glue As of other dereferences).

> There are other variants (eg, long CNAME chains), but that's
> the basic idea.

It should also be noted that RFC 1035 says:

	CNAME RRs cause no additional section processing

though it is not prohibitted.

> The important characteristic of this class of attacks is that they
> allow the attacker to introduce a new name into the protocol exchange
> as a side effect of what looks like a normal protocol operation.

So, I think the threat is essentially that of redirection,
protection against which automatically protects against
chaining.

						Masataka Ohta



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Mark Andrews <Mark_Andrews@isc.org>
Subject: RFC 3363, Section 4.
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:36:07 +1000
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4.  DNAME in IPv6 Reverse Tree

   The issues for DNAME in the reverse mapping tree appears to be
   closely tied to the need to use fragmented A6 in the main tree: if
   one is necessary, so is the other, and if one isn't necessary, the
   other isn't either.  Therefore, in moving RFC 2874 to experimental,
   the intent of this document is that use of DNAME RRs in the reverse
   tree be deprecated.

	I think we should get RFC 3363 re-issued without Section 4.
	The reasons for this are:
	
	1. The opening premise of Section 4 is clearly invalid.
	2. There is a lot of confusion of what is the extent of
	   Section 4.  Some people see it as killing DNAME completely
           which is false.  This has come up in nanog, ipv6 and
	   even dnsext communities.
	3. We shouldn't be restricting where we can use DNAME in
           the first place.  DNAME was allowed to be use *everywhere*
           in the DNS namespace before RFC 2874.
	4. There are currently two drafts in progress that attempted
           to overstate what was ment by Section 5.  We won't be able
           to catch them all.  If RFC 3363 is re-issued, we can just
           refer them to this document.

	Mark
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE:	+61 2 9871 4742		         INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org


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From ietf-announce-admin@ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
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         to Informational RFC
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Threat Analysis Of The Domain Name System '
   <draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt> as an Informational RFC

This document is the product of the DNS Extensions Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Thomas Narten and Margaret Wasserman.

Technical Summary
 
   Although the DNS Security Extensions (DNSSEC) have been under
   development for most of the last decade, the IETF has never written
   down the specific set of threats against which DNSSEC is designed to
   protect.  Among other drawbacks, this cart-before-the-horse situation
   has made it difficult to determine whether DNSSEC meets its design
   goals, since its design goals are not well specified.  This note
   attempts to document some of the known threats to the DNS, and, in
   doing so, attempts to measure to what extent (if any) DNSSEC is a
   useful tool in defending against these threats.
   
Working Group Summary
 
  
Protocol Quality
 
This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Thomas Narten.


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Olaf Kolkman <olaf@ripe.net>
Subject: DNSEXT list policy
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- List Purpose

  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org is the mailing list for the IETF DNSEXT
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  See <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsext-charter.html> for the
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- Specific items that are not not appropriate for posting

  Calls for papers, announcements of events not directly relevant to
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  There is a working group for dns operational practice, DNSOP, whose
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  Discussion about the quality of implementations is outside the scope
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- Moderation

  Moderation is based on "subscriber-only with spam filter".

  Questions or concerns related to the acceptance or rejection of
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  There is a mailing list for the discussion of ietf processes, which
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  lists.  it is poised@lists.tislabs.com

- Issue Tracker

  As of October 2003 this group will use an issue tracker. This is to
  better organize the work-flow, maintain overview over, and focus the
  discussions to the working group documents. 

  Please stick to the following procedure when discussing working
  group work documents.

  == The system

  The issue tracker can be found at: 
  
  https://roundup.machshav.com/dnsext/index 

  The chairs are responsible for maintaining the data in the issue
  tracker. That task may be delegated to document editors. If a
  document editor prefers other tracking systems they are free to
  coordinate that with the chairs.

  == Creating a new issue.

  New Issue tickets are only created for working group document.

  If you have an issue a document please sent in a mail with a subject
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  Where <NAME> is taken from the I-D's file name
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  Please use the following template to submit an issue:


    To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
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    Subject: FOO-RR-PROCESSING ISSUE: BLA-bit vs FOO-flag interop problem

    
    One line description of issue

    name: Your_Name_Here
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    Requested change:
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  The proposal for the requested change is the most important bit of
  the issue. Providing a proposed text will focus discussion and
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  Once a new "ISSUE" message is received on the list the chairs or
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  == Discussion of issues.  

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  == Bouncing of issues

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  == Discussion of matters not in the issue tracker.

  Feel free to bring up matters that are not related to working group
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  == Closing of issues.

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---

NOTE WELL:

All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the 
IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants 
to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and rights in such 
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Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
$Id: dnsext-list-policy.txt,v 1.4 2003/09/25 08:26:13 olaf Exp $

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
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The IDsA project (http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?lang=en) has just the 
second release candidate
for KROd 1.0.
KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
used to "DNSSECify" normal DNS zones.
KROd is still an experimental product and as such shouldn't be used in 
production
environment.

More informations/downloads can be found here:
    http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?page=kro&lang=en

-- 
Fort David, Projet IDsA
IRISA-INRIA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes cedex, France
Tél: +33 (0) 2 99 84 71 33



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com
Subject: Re: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:04:02 +0000
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On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:37:30PM +0200, David Fort wrote:
> The IDsA project (http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?lang=en) has just the 
> second release candidate
> for KROd 1.0.
> KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
> used to "DNSSECify" normal DNS zones.
> KROd is still an experimental product and as such shouldn't be used in 
> production
> environment.
> 
> More informations/downloads can be found here:
>    http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?page=kro&lang=en
> 
> -- 
> Fort David, Projet IDsA
> IRISA-INRIA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes cedex, France
> Tél: +33 (0) 2 99 84 71 33


	very experimental....

	"... unable to find the file or directory named
	/local/idsa/code/kro/KROd-1.0tc2.tar.bz2
	Check the name and try again."

--bill

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com
Subject: Re: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:11:32 +0000
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On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:37:30PM +0200, David Fort wrote:
> KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
> used to "DNSSECify" normal DNS zones.
> KROd is still an experimental product and as such shouldn't be used in 
> production
> environment.
> 
> More informations/downloads can be found here:
>    http://idsa.irisa.fr/index.php?page=kro&lang=en
> 
> -- 
> Fort David, Projet IDsA

	Ah... reverting to the more primative (but in many ways, more flexable)
	native FTP....


ftp> ls
227 Entering Passive Mode (131,254,254,10,179,49)
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
total 2656
drwxr-xr-x   2 4779     29016       8192 Mar 11 16:36 .
drwxr-xr-x  10 4779     29016       8192 Feb 16 12:48 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     127417 Feb 16 12:49 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     237854 Feb 23 13:58 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     325688 Mar  1 16:21 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc3.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     325963 Mar 11 09:55 DNSsecToolkit-1.0-rc4.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     176701 Feb 16 12:49 KROd-1.0rc1.tar.gz
-rw-r-----   1 4779     29016     129864 Mar 11 16:37 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
226 Transfer complete.
ftp> get KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
local: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2 remote: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
227 Entering Passive Mode (131,254,254,10,112,150)
550 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2: Permission denied.
ftp> 

	Please correct the file permissions...  and using gzip (like everying
	else in the directory) would be a nod to consistancy.  :)

--bill

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: David Fort <david.fort@irisa.fr>
Subject: Re: KROd 1.0rc2
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:23:48 +0200
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bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:

>On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:37:30PM +0200, David Fort wrote:
>  
>
>>KROd is a daemon that automate the keyrollover in DNSSEC. KROd can also be
>>    
>>
>  
>
[...]

>-rw-r--r--   1 4779     29016     176701 Feb 16 12:49 KROd-1.0rc1.tar.gz
>-rw-r-----   1 4779     29016     129864 Mar 11 16:37 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
>226 Transfer complete.
>ftp> get KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
>local: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2 remote: KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2
>227 Entering Passive Mode (131,254,254,10,112,150)
>550 KROd-1.0rc2.tar.bz2: Permission denied.
>  
>
Corrected

-- 
Fort David, Projet IDsA
IRISA-INRIA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes cedex, France
Tél: +33 (0) 2 99 84 71 33



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:31:11 -0400
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Threat Analysis Of The Domain Name System
	Author(s)	: D. Atkins, R. Austein
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
	Pages		: 16
	Date		: 2004-4-5
	
Although the DNS Security Extensions (DNSSEC) have been under
   development for most of the last decade, the IETF has never written
   down the specific set of threats against which DNSSEC is designed to
   protect.  Among other drawbacks, this cart-before-the-horse situation
   has made it difficult to determine whether DNSSEC meets its design
   goals, since its design goals are not well specified.  This note
   attempts to document some of the known threats to the DNS, and, in
   doing so, attempts to measure to what extent (if any) DNSSEC is a
   useful tool in defending against these threats.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: Q31:  Validator behavior for islands of security
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:10:18 -0400
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Question:  What is default behavior when a validator cannot get a secure
entry point into an island of security?

In proto-05 section 5.1, there is the discussion on the resolution process
and islands of security (or self-signed zones with no secure delegation).
The last sentence in the first paragraph reads:

     If a validator cannot obtain such a key, it will have
     to choose whether to accept the unvalidated responses
     or not based on local policy.

The suggested change:

	If a validator cannot obtain such a key, it
      SHOULD switch to operating as if the zones
	in the island of security are unsigned.

Background:
RFC 2535 mentions islands of security, but gives no specific handling
instructions.  RFC
3090 (DNS Security Extensions on Zone Status) section 1.2 states that "The
only way in which a DNSSEC resolver will come to trust any data from this
island is if the resolver is pre-configured with the zone key(s)... Other
resolvers (not so configured) will recognize this island as unsecured."
This change attempts to bring the spec in line (and strengthen) with RFC
3090.

This question is not an attempt to raise the same topics as DNSSECbis Q28 on
how a validator and resolver should act with regards to unsigned or invalid
signatures.

This has not be explicitly discussed on namedroppers (to my knowledge).
Section 5.1 does not go into detail how a validator treats unsigned zones,
but that was to be discussed in another section on classifying responses.
Simply put, Section 5.1 should only state that the data should be treated as
unsigned.  How unsigned data is handled by the validator and the info given
back to the resolver are discussed in other sections.

Deadline:
If there is no specific reason not to change this paragraph in Section 5.1,
the change will be made by April 19.


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Rob Austein <sra@isc.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:47:48 -0400
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For those who have not been following the exciting details in the
draft tracker: this is the final version of this draft, which
addresses the last of the issues that came up during IETF last call
and IESG review.  As far as the authors know, we are done, and we
expect formal IESG publication approval within a few days.

We don't think any of the recent changes are controversial, but:

a) If anyone thinks there's a show-stopping problem with the changes,
   speak up now;

b) No new issues, please, it's past time to ship this puppy.

Change logs available at http://www.hactrn.net/ietf/dns/threats/

--Rob and Derek

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:16:20 +0900
Lines: 33
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Rob Austein wrote:

> For those who have not been following the exciting details in the
> draft tracker: this is the final version of this draft, which
> addresses the last of the issues that came up during IETF last call
> and IESG review.  As far as the authors know, we are done, and we
> expect formal IESG publication approval within a few days.

Can someone explain why "Name Chaining attacks" are
harmful?

As far as I understand, name chaining is, first, to let
the victim access a name of attackers choice and, secondly,
to let the victim access names of attackers choice.

So, if the attacker can control the first name, why it
is more harmful that the attacker can control the
subsequent accesses?

If the attacker can control the first name and the victim
is not protected from cache poisoning, the attacker can
inject a lot of false information with the first access
that I can see no point of chaining.

					Masataka Ohta



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:36:25 -0400
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I think the new version is good.  From my reading of the draft "name
chaining" sounds like a slightly better term for that class of attacks.

I do not see any show-stopper problems.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
> [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Rob Austein
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:48 PM
> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
>
>
> For those who have not been following the exciting details in the
> draft tracker: this is the final version of this draft, which
> addresses the last of the issues that came up during IETF last call
> and IESG review.  As far as the authors know, we are done, and we
> expect formal IESG publication approval within a few days.
>
> We don't think any of the recent changes are controversial, but:
>
> a) If anyone thinks there's a show-stopping problem with the changes,
>    speak up now;
>
> b) No new issues, please, it's past time to ship this puppy.
>
> Change logs available at http://www.hactrn.net/ietf/dns/threats/
>
> --Rob and Derek
>
> --
> to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
> the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: DNSSECbis editors' comment on caching TTL
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:11:36 -0400
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Correcting RRSIG expiration time and TTL for caching.
 
In RFC 2535, the TTL for caching an RRset was given as the minimum value of
the TTL vs. the value (RRSIG expiration time - current time).  However, the
current DNSSECbis protocol draft Section 5.3.3, which states how to
calculate the TTL based on the DNSSEC records, inadvertently dropped this
requirement.

Therefore, this requirement for limiting the TTL based on the RRSIG expiry
time will be corrected in Section 5.3.3 of the protocol draft.  This will
bring the protocol draft in line with the original RFC 2535.

Thank you,
DNSSEC editors group

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Rob Austein <sra@isc.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:51:44 -0400
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At Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:16:20 +0900, Masataka Ohta wrote:
> 
> Can someone explain why "Name Chaining attacks" are harmful?
> 
> As far as I understand, name chaining is, first, to let the victim
> access a name of attackers choice and, secondly, to let the victim
> access names of attackers choice.
> 
> So, if the attacker can control the first name, why it is more
> harmful that the attacker can control the subsequent accesses?
> 
> If the attacker can control the first name and the victim is not
> protected from cache poisoning, the attacker can inject a lot of
> false information with the first access that I can see no point of
> chaining.

Relevance checks can protect against many forms of name-based attacks,
but not against name-chaining attacks.

Eg, pretend (for purposes of discussion, no insult intended) that
you're silly enough to run an HTML-vulnerable MUA, an attacker sends
you a web bug linking to http://very.evil.example, and your MUA duely
generates a query for very.evil.example.  If the name server for
evil.example replies to your query for very.evil.example by telling
you that important.example.org is at some random IP address
(presumably controlled by the attacker), your resolver's relevance
checks will reject this response because an answer about
important.example.org isn't relevant to a query for very.evil.example.

If, however, the name server for evil.example tells you that
very.evil.example is served by important.example.org and oh, by the
way, here's the address of important.example.org, your resolver will
think that the address of important.example.org is relevant, will
probably believe it, and will probably cache it.  Oops.  There are
other variants (eg, long CNAME chains), but that's the basic idea.

The important characteristic of this class of attacks is that they
allow the attacker to introduce a new name into the protocol exchange
as a side effect of what looks like a normal protocol operation.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: "Scott Rose" <scottr@nist.gov>
Subject: Q32:  Adding the DNSKEY TTL as a factor when determining RRset TTL
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:25:09 -0400
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Q32:  Adding the DNSKEY TTL as a factor when determining RRset TTL

Section 5.3.3 of the protocol document discusses how a cache should
calculate the TTL value for a RRset based on a number of factors:

- The RRset's TTL as received in the response

- The RRSIG RR's TTL as received in the response

- The value in the RRSIG RR's Original TTL field

- The difference between RRSIG expiration time and the current time.

The last being corrected from a previous error on the editors' part.

The comment given to the editors group was to add the follow constraint to
that list:

- The validating DNSKEY’s TTL

Discussion:
The case for this constraint is that if the DNSKEY has expired, then the
RRSIGs it has validated should also expire.  The DNSKEY may have rolled over
during the time period and the RRSIGs may no longer be valid.  It is
possibly out of date information.

The case against this constraint is that if the DNSKEY is purged from the
cache, it does not necessarily mean the RRSIGs have expired (they possibly
have not reached their expiration time).  The RRSIGs and DNSKEY may still be
in use by the authoritative zone.

It is the editors' opinion is that this additional constraint is not
necessary.  If WG members think that it is necessary, please state so and
supply text for Section 5.3.3 cache value recommendation.

Deadline for discussion is April 19th  Default action is to NOT ADD the
suggested constraint.  Otherwise, please state reason why the constraint is
useful and suggest text.


Thanks,
The DNSSEC editors group


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:56:02 +0900
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Rob Austein;

Thank you for the explanation.

>>Can someone explain why "Name Chaining attacks" are harmful?
>>
>>As far as I understand, name chaining is, first, to let the victim
>>access a name of attackers choice and, secondly, to let the victim
>>access names of attackers choice.
>>
>>So, if the attacker can control the first name, why it is more
>>harmful that the attacker can control the subsequent accesses?
>>
>>If the attacker can control the first name and the victim is not
>>protected from cache poisoning, the attacker can inject a lot of
>>false information with the first access that I can see no point of
>>chaining.

> Relevance checks can protect against many forms of name-based attacks,
> but not against name-chaining attacks.

That is a result of improper relevance checks, I think.

The only meaningful relevance check MUST be (save that for
glues) that the names are at or below the zone served by
the current server, which is not affected by chaining.

If implementations are doing otherwise, they are poor, I
believe.

> If, however, the name server for evil.example tells you that
> very.evil.example is served by important.example.org and oh, by the
> way, here's the address of important.example.org, your resolver will
> think that the address of important.example.org is relevant, will
> probably believe it, and will probably cache it.

For a glue, it is necessary to check the dereference point is
at or below the zone of the current server and to tag the cache
entry of glues with the corresponding dereference points so
that the entries are not used for other purposes (normal As or
glue As of other dereferences).

> There are other variants (eg, long CNAME chains), but that's
> the basic idea.

It should also be noted that RFC 1035 says:

	CNAME RRs cause no additional section processing

though it is not prohibitted.

> The important characteristic of this class of attacks is that they
> allow the attacker to introduce a new name into the protocol exchange
> as a side effect of what looks like a normal protocol operation.

So, I think the threat is essentially that of redirection,
protection against which automatically protects against
chaining.

						Masataka Ohta



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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: Mark Andrews <Mark_Andrews@isc.org>
Subject: RFC 3363, Section 4.
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:36:07 +1000
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4.  DNAME in IPv6 Reverse Tree

   The issues for DNAME in the reverse mapping tree appears to be
   closely tied to the need to use fragmented A6 in the main tree: if
   one is necessary, so is the other, and if one isn't necessary, the
   other isn't either.  Therefore, in moving RFC 2874 to experimental,
   the intent of this document is that use of DNAME RRs in the reverse
   tree be deprecated.

	I think we should get RFC 3363 re-issued without Section 4.
	The reasons for this are:
	
	1. The opening premise of Section 4 is clearly invalid.
	2. There is a lot of confusion of what is the extent of
	   Section 4.  Some people see it as killing DNAME completely
           which is false.  This has come up in nanog, ipv6 and
	   even dnsext communities.
	3. We shouldn't be restricting where we can use DNAME in
           the first place.  DNAME was allowed to be use *everywhere*
           in the DNS namespace before RFC 2874.
	4. There are currently two drafts in progress that attempted
           to overstate what was ment by Section 5.  We won't be able
           to catch them all.  If RFC 3363 is re-issued, we can just
           refer them to this document.

	Mark
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE:	+61 2 9871 4742		         INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org


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From ietf-announce-admin@ietf.org  Fri Dec 29 10:45:51 2006
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Subject: Document Action: 'Threat Analysis Of The Domain Name System' 
         to Informational RFC
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Threat Analysis Of The Domain Name System '
   <draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-threats-07.txt> as an Informational RFC

This document is the product of the DNS Extensions Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Thomas Narten and Margaret Wasserman.

Technical Summary
 
   Although the DNS Security Extensions (DNSSEC) have been under
   development for most of the last decade, the IETF has never written
   down the specific set of threats against which DNSSEC is designed to
   protect.  Among other drawbacks, this cart-before-the-horse situation
   has made it difficult to determine whether DNSSEC meets its design
   goals, since its design goals are not well specified.  This note
   attempts to document some of the known threats to the DNS, and, in
   doing so, attempts to measure to what extent (if any) DNSSEC is a
   useful tool in defending against these threats.
   
Working Group Summary
 
  
Protocol Quality
 
This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Thomas Narten.


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