From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Thu Jul 1 06:19:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C8F3A67D0 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:19:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.244, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fnlAnoFsbJwI for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6632F3A67DB for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o61DJmht005990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:19:48 +0200 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o61DJlgb014253; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:19:48 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:19:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB1920.13606924" Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:19:46 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session Thread-Index: AcsZIBNNaRIrMVXpSTmQvDTTK9k9VQ== From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2010 13:19:47.0577 (UTC) FILETIME=[1405E690:01CB1920] Subject: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:19:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1920.13606924 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear NETCONF WG, attached is the draft agenda we prepared so far. Please check it=20 and give us your comments by July 6, 2010 EOB. <<100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt>>=20 There was a long discussion on the WG chairs list concerning=20 the scarce session time in the IETF #78 agenda and that some=20 of the requested sessions will not be possible to schedule. If the draft authors and the WG agrees we want to give one hour=20 of our session time free for further agenda usage in Maastricht.=20 Please speak up if you have any additional serious topics to discuss=20 in NETCONF session. Mehmet & Bert ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1920.13606924 Content-Type: text/plain; name="100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: 100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt" DQpORVRDT05GIFdHIA0KSUVURiA3OCAtTWFhc3RyaWNodCwgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNCg0KSnVseSAy NS0zMCwgMjAxMA0KDQoNCk1PTkRBWSwgSnVseSAyNiwgMjAxMCAtIDEzMDAtMTUwMCBBZnRlcm5v b24gU2Vzc2lvbiBJDQoNCiAgIFdHIENoYWlyczoNCiAgIEJlcnQgV2lqbmVuIDxiZXJ0aWV0ZkBi d2lqbmVuLm5ldD4NCiAgIE1laG1ldCBFcnN1ZSA8bWVobWV0LmVyc3VlQG5zbi5jb20+DQoNCiAg IFNjcmliZXMgKElGIG5vX3ZvbHVudGVlcnMgVEhFTiB3YWl0X2ZvcmV2ZXIpIA0KICAgQWdlbmRh IGJhc2hpbmcgKDIgbWludXRlcykgDQogICBXRyBzdGF0dXMgcmV2aWV3ICg1IG1pbnV0ZXMpIA0K DQogICBDaGFydGVyZWQgaXRlbXM6DQoNCiAgICAgIDEuIDQ3NDFiaXMtZHJhZnQgLSBNLiBCam9y a2x1bmQvSi4gU2No9m535GxkZXIvQS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMzAgbWludXRlcykNCiAgICAgICAgICBo dHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldGNvbmYtNDc0MWJpcyANCg0K ICAgTm9uLUNoYXJ0ZXJlZCBpdGVtczoNCg0KICAgICAgMS4gTmV0d29yayBDb25maWd1cmF0aW9u IFByb3RvY29sIEFjY2VzcyBDb250cm9sIE1vZGVsIC0gQS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMTUgbWludXRlcykg DQogICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYmllcm1hbi1uZXRj b25mLWFjY2Vzcy1jb250cm9sDQogICAgICAyLiBORVRDT05GIFN5c3RlbSBNb25pdG9yaW5nIC0g QS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMTAgbWludXRlcykgDQogICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3Jn L2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYmllcm1hbi1uZXRjb25mLXN5c3RlbS1tb25pdG9yaW5nDQoNCiAgIE9wZW4g bWlrZSAoNSBtaW51dGVzKQ0KICAgICAgQW55IG90aGVyIHRvcGljcyB0byBkaXNjdXNzPyANCg0K ICAgQU9CDQoNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1920.13606924-- From bertietf@bwijnen.net Thu Jul 1 07:44:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CFC3A6959 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 07:44:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.670, BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HdOphL55Lw2r for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 07:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 720143A694C for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 07:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.1.102]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OUL0d-0006D7-Er for netconf@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:45:04 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=guest-93.ripe.net) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OUL0d-0004Yk-Aq for netconf@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:44:59 +0200 Message-ID: <4C2CA9EB.4030703@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:44:59 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Netconf References: <9B9C58ADF3B141F4902099EB8606AFC6@BertLaptop> In-Reply-To: <9B9C58ADF3B141F4902099EB8606AFC6@BertLaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4d3d6684e63bad44b46c38c9176ee9299 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4d3d6684e63bad44b46c38c9176ee9299 Subject: Re: [Netconf] Consensus call on goAhead on with-defaults X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:44:57 -0000 My personal opinion is A. I didn't get many opinions. I only saw one from Randy Presuhn Does that mean that those who did not react are all neutral ? Bert Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: > Action please before July 1st if at all possible. > > WG participants, it seems that we (chairs) cannot conclude to have > (even rough) consensus on merging some pieces of the with-defaults > into 4741bis. > > Our tally (difficult to determine through the mailstorms and repetition > of arguments) is: > > To move ahead with current with-defaults draft revision 09 > and move nothing to 4741bis (specifically the announcement > of basic-mode is something that some people want to > move to 4741bis). > > A: 3 strong opinions in favor of keeping with-defaults as is: > Andy, Phil, Balazs > B: 3 strong opinions to move basic-mode announcement to 4741bis: > Juergen, Lada, Tom > C: 1 neutral (is OK to leave with-defaults, but does not object to > move it to 4741bis): > Martin > > Please express your opinion (A, B, or C) before the end of this week, > so we (wg chairs) can try to read WG consensus. > > Please do NOT repeat all your arguments as to why you choose which option. > We have already seen those arguments. > > Bert and Mehmet > From wwwrun@core3.amsl.com Thu Jul 1 11:55:35 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 979603A6999; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:55:35 -0700 (PDT) X-idtracker: yes From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: <20100701185535.979603A6999@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Internet Architecture Board , netconf mailing list , netconf chair , RFC Editor Subject: [Netconf] Protocol Action: 'YANG Module for NETCONF Monitoring' to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 18:55:35 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'YANG Module for NETCONF Monitoring ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Network Configuration Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Dan Romascanu and Ron Bonica. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netconf-monitoring-15.txt Technical Summary This document defines a NETCONF data model to be used to monitor the NETCONF protocol. The monitoring data model includes information about NETCONF datastores, sessions, locks and statistics. This data facilitates the management of a NETCONF server. This document also defines methods for NETCONF clients to discover data models supported by a NETCONF server and defines a new NETCONF operation to retrieve them. Working Group Summary This document has been longly discussed in the Working Group, including several WG Last Calls. The comments and reviews helped to improve the document a lot and the current version reflects the consensus of the Working Group. After a long debate the WG decided to use the YANG modeling language to model the NETCONF Monitoring Data Model. This makes this document dependent on the YANG modeling language. The document has had adequate review from working group and non-working group members, mostly from NETCONF and NETMOD WGs. There is strong consensus to publish this document. Document Quality NETCONF and YANG are currently implemented by a number of vendors. YANG experts from NETMOD WG reviewed the YANG data module and validated with available YANG validation tools. Personnel Mehmet Ersue is the Document Shepherd. Dan Romascanu is the Responsible Area Director. RFC Editor Note Please make the following change in section 5, page 21: OLD: leaf-list select { type string; min-elements 1; NEW: leaf-list select { type yang:xpath1.0; min-elements 1; From ietfc@btconnect.com Fri Jul 2 02:52:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97A03A67E5 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 02:52:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0MeBnTSzTgsC for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 02:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c2bthomr01.btconnect.com (c2bthomr01.btconnect.com [213.123.20.119]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F7C3A67A5 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 02:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc6 (host86-145-197-30.range86-145.btcentralplus.com [86.145.197.30]) by c2bthomr01.btconnect.com with SMTP id NIG62054; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 10:52:35 +0100 (BST) X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Neutral-1, source=Queried, refid=0001.0A0B0301.4C2DB6E3.000B, actions=tag Message-ID: <000801cb19c3$66acaa20$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "t.petch" To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" , "Netconf" References: <9B9C58ADF3B141F4902099EB8606AFC6@BertLaptop> <4C2CA9EB.4030703@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:52:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=c2bthomr01.btconnect.com X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A0B020A.4C2DB6F1.0008,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2009-07-20 21:54:04, dmn=5.7.1/2009-08-27, mode=single engine X-Junkmail-IWF: false Subject: Re: [Netconf] Consensus call on goAhead on with-defaults X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 09:52:39 -0000 No. It means my views remain the same, B. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" To: "Netconf" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [Netconf] Consensus call on goAhead on with-defaults > My personal opinion is A. > > I didn't get many opinions. > I only saw one from Randy Presuhn > > Does that mean that those who did not react are all neutral ? > > Bert > > Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: > > Action please before July 1st if at all possible. > > > > WG participants, it seems that we (chairs) cannot conclude to have > > (even rough) consensus on merging some pieces of the with-defaults > > into 4741bis. > > > > Our tally (difficult to determine through the mailstorms and repetition > > of arguments) is: > > > > To move ahead with current with-defaults draft revision 09 > > and move nothing to 4741bis (specifically the announcement > > of basic-mode is something that some people want to > > move to 4741bis). > > > > A: 3 strong opinions in favor of keeping with-defaults as is: > > Andy, Phil, Balazs > > B: 3 strong opinions to move basic-mode announcement to 4741bis: > > Juergen, Lada, Tom > > C: 1 neutral (is OK to leave with-defaults, but does not object to > > move it to 4741bis): > > Martin > > > > Please express your opinion (A, B, or C) before the end of this week, > > so we (wg chairs) can try to read WG consensus. > > > > Please do NOT repeat all your arguments as to why you choose which option. > > We have already seen those arguments. > > > > Bert and Mehmet > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Jul 2 04:36:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415743A680D for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.368 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.368 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rGiRn1HIhDp8 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D363A67F1 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o62Ba74H023686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:36:07 +0200 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o62Ba6Ue007844; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:36:06 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:36:05 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:36:04 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5B57A@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft Thread-Index: AcsZzg1GGbTk3Y56TFSMogl3v/zIAgAAc3VQAAHfYAA= From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2010 11:36:05.0965 (UTC) FILETIME=[C210FFD0:01CB19DA] Subject: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:36:04 -0000 =20 Hi All, there are two occurences of list names in the Monitoring=20 draft which have been named as plural: "list partial-locks"=20 and "leaf-list locked-nodes" Where others have been written as singular, e.g. container sessions { list session { If there are no objections we are going to do following=20 change during AUTH48, which aligns the list name usage=20 and increases the document clarity. OLD: list partial-locks { NEW: list partial-lock { OLD: leaf-list locked-nodes { NEW: leaf-list locked-node { Mehmet (document shepherd) From andyb@iwl.com Fri Jul 2 06:58:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E9C3A6830 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 06:58:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.866 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.866 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.733, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Eqx78WBYNk3 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 06:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp134.iad.emailsrvr.com (smtp134.iad.emailsrvr.com [207.97.245.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D923A68B9 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 06:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id CE56E44C080; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: andyb-AT-iwlcorp.com) with ESMTPSA id 6FF3E44C0EF; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4C2DF08C.7050503@iwl.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 06:58:36 -0700 From: Andy Bierman Organization: Interworking Labs, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100423 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5B57A@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5B57A@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: andyb@iwl.com List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:58:21 -0000 On 07/02/2010 04:36 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > Hi All, > > there are two occurences of list names in the Monitoring > draft which have been named as plural: "list partial-locks" > and "leaf-list locked-nodes" > > Where others have been written as singular, e.g. > > container sessions { > list session { > > If there are no objections we are going to do following > change during AUTH48, which aligns the list name usage > and increases the document clarity. > > OLD: list partial-locks { > NEW: list partial-lock { > > OLD: leaf-list locked-nodes { > NEW: leaf-list locked-node { > > No objections, as long as you update the revision date as well. (Of course you were going to remember to bump the revision ;-) > Mehmet > (document shepherd) > Andy From andyb@iwl.com Sun Jul 4 09:59:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696613A67F0 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:59:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XlgnogMCXn2R for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp114.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp114.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.114]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A88B3A6452 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay21.relay.dfw.mlsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay21.relay.dfw.mlsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 347602E40157 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by relay21.relay.dfw.mlsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: andyb-AT-iwlcorp.com) with ESMTPSA id F2EA52E400BC for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4C30BE26.9050206@iwl.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 10:00:22 -0700 From: Andy Bierman Organization: Interworking Labs, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100423 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070807050900030308010607" Subject: [Netconf] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: andyb@iwl.com List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 16:59:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070807050900030308010607 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The NACM draft is new and improved (thanks to Martin's input), and hopefully the WG will charter this work ASAP. We would like some time at the NETCONF meeting to discuss the draft and maybe even proposed charter text. I probably will not be there, so Martin will present the slides. thanks, Andy -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:15:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund Filename : draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt Pages : 60 Date : 2010-07-04 The standardization of network configuration interfaces for use with the NETCONF protocol requires a structured and secure operating environment, which promotes human usability and multi-vendor interoperability. There is a need for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF protocol access for particular users to a pre- configured subset of all available NETCONF operations and content. This document discusses requirements for a suitable access control model, and provides one solution which meets these requirements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --------------070807050900030308010607 Content-Type: message/external-body; name="draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-07-04090507.I-D@ietf.org> --------------070807050900030308010607 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Attached Message Part" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Attached Message Part" _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --------------070807050900030308010607-- From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Jul 5 05:49:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA2E3A68B8 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 05:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OtePQBfUdt35 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 05:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BD93A67AE for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 05:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o65CnTb9016628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:49:29 +0200 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o65CnRJN032000; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:49:29 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:49:24 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:49:23 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5BB36@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <4C2DF08C.7050503@iwl.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft Thread-Index: AcsZ7qo5o4IN2MYzTS+rphQ908FSoACUcXaA References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5B57A@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C2DF08C.7050503@iwl.com> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2010 12:49:24.0946 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F4D7B20:01CB1C40] Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:49:32 -0000 > > Hi All, > > > > there are two occurences of list names in the Monitoring=20 > > draft which have been named as plural: "list partial-locks"=20 > > and "leaf-list locked-nodes" > > > > Where others have been written as singular, e.g. > > > > container sessions { > > list session { > > > > If there are no objections we are going to do following=20 > > change during AUTH48, which aligns the list name usage=20 > > and increases the document clarity. > > > > OLD: list partial-locks { > > NEW: list partial-lock { > > > > OLD: leaf-list locked-nodes { > > NEW: leaf-list locked-node { > > > > =20 >=20 > No objections, as long as you > update the revision date as well. Sure. > (Of course you were going to remember to bump > the revision ;-) >=20 > > Mehmet > > (document shepherd) > > =20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 From mark.scott@ericsson.com Mon Jul 5 08:46:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D993A6890 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJkKEGp2MVw1 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr1.ericy.com (imr1.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25683A6836 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o65FsbLr002611; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:54:37 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.39]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:46:35 -0400 From: Mark Scott To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "andyb@iwl.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:46:34 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft Thread-Index: AcsZ7qo5o4IN2MYzTS+rphQ908FSoACUcXaAAAYrMWA= Message-ID: <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E87F365@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5B57A@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C2DF08C.7050503@iwl.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5BB36@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A5BB36@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:46:37 -0000 No objections from me. Please let me know if I can assist with making the = update. Mark -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: July-05-10 8:49 AM To: andyb@iwl.com; netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Alignment of list names in Monitoring draft > > Hi All, > > > > there are two occurences of list names in the Monitoring=20 > > draft which have been named as plural: "list partial-locks"=20 > > and "leaf-list locked-nodes" > > > > Where others have been written as singular, e.g. > > > > container sessions { > > list session { > > > > If there are no objections we are going to do following=20 > > change during AUTH48, which aligns the list name usage=20 > > and increases the document clarity. > > > > OLD: list partial-locks { > > NEW: list partial-lock { > > > > OLD: leaf-list locked-nodes { > > NEW: leaf-list locked-node { > > > > =20 >=20 > No objections, as long as you > update the revision date as well. Sure. > (Of course you were going to remember to bump > the revision ;-) >=20 > > Mehmet > > (document shepherd) > > =20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Tue Jul 6 02:49:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1B13A6839 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 02:49:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.517 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.517 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.166, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Iuor20F6sApN for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 02:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C703A67AB for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 02:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86664C0002 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:49:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0DbGGN3OSXTI; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:49:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2389EC0007; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:49:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id F3848138735C; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:49:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:49:49 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:49:50 -0000 Hi, the monitoring draft triggered some discussion that the secure transports must provide an authenticated NETCONF username. Such a username is exported in the monitoring module and also used in an access control proposal. Since different transports support different authentication schemes, it should be the responsibility of the transport documents to spell out how a username is derived for the authentication mechanisms supported. The upcoming 4741bis has been updated to make that clear. The relevant paragraph: The authentication process MUST result in an authenticated client identity whose permissions are known to the server. The authenticated identity of a client is commonly referred to as the NETCONF username. The algorithm used to derive the username is transport protocol specific and in addition specific to the authentication mechanism used by the transport protocol. NETCONF transport protocols therefore MUST explain how a NETCONF username is derived from the authentication mechanisms supported by the transport protocol. This has implications to 4742bis since it should spell out how the NETCONF username is provided when SSH is being used. (And the text on authentication requirements in the access control ID probably should be reviewed and where approriate incorporated into 4742bis.) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From bertietf@bwijnen.net Tue Jul 6 03:14:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8985D3A684E for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 03:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KsNXxrz2GcJf for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 03:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4383A688D for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 03:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.1.102]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OW5Ax-000255-Rj; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:14:57 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=BWMACBOOK.local) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OW5Ax-00065i-MC; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:14:51 +0200 Message-ID: <4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:14:51 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: netconf@ietf.org, Margaret Wasserman References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd440321f46e5d2c3035f39197e0d19e61c X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd440321f46e5d2c3035f39197e0d19e61c Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:14:59 -0000 Thanks Juergen. Margaret, can you please take this into account when doing the new rev (RSN I hope)! Bert Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Hi, > > the monitoring draft triggered some discussion that the secure > transports must provide an authenticated NETCONF username. Such a > username is exported in the monitoring module and also used in an > access control proposal. Since different transports support different > authentication schemes, it should be the responsibility of the > transport documents to spell out how a username is derived for the > authentication mechanisms supported. The upcoming 4741bis has been > updated to make that clear. The relevant paragraph: > > The authentication process MUST result in an authenticated client > identity whose permissions are known to the server. The > authenticated identity of a client is commonly referred to as the > NETCONF username. The algorithm used to derive the username is > transport protocol specific and in addition specific to the > authentication mechanism used by the transport protocol. NETCONF > transport protocols therefore MUST explain how a NETCONF username is > derived from the authentication mechanisms supported by the transport > protocol. > > This has implications to 4742bis since it should spell out how the > NETCONF username is provided when SSH is being used. (And the text on > authentication requirements in the access control ID probably should > be reviewed and where approriate incorporated into 4742bis.) > > /js > > From phil@juniper.net Tue Jul 6 08:20:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79343A67C2 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:20:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Bo1WDnXonk0 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586AC3A690F for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTDNJq15Q2m0VNQtL49U9Xb91uBcHObrj@postini.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:20:15 PDT Received: from p-emfe03-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.75) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.254.0; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:00:01 -0700 Received: from p-emlb01-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.46]) by p-emfe03-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:00:01 -0700 Received: from emailsmtp55.jnpr.net ([172.24.18.132]) by p-emlb01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:00:00 -0700 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:00:00 -0700 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id o66ExxD58966; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o66EfoUf076936; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:41:51 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201007061441.o66EfoUf076936@idle.juniper.net> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder In-Reply-To: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:41:50 -0400 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2010 15:00:00.0381 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7FFBAD0:01CB1D1B] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:20:14 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >This has implications to 4742bis since it should spell out how the >NETCONF username is provided when SSH is being used. (And the text on >authentication requirements in the access control ID probably should >be reviewed and where approriate incorporated into 4742bis.) Be aware that many low-end devices (and more than a few high-end ones) do not have the concept of "user" at all, with just a single password prompt at login time. I'll admit complete ignorance about how ssh is implemented on those devices, given that the ones I have at hand don't support ssh. Ok, google says: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_2t/12_2t2/feature/guide/ftrevssh.html Router> enable Router# configure terminal Router(config)# username user password xxxxx Router(config)# aaa authentication login LOCALUSERS local Router(config)# line 47 Router (config-line)# no exec Router (config-line)# login authentication LOCALUSERS Router (config-line)# transport input ssh Router (config-line)# exit Router (config)# exit Client Commands Router# ssh -l user:47 10.1.2.3 I've never seen this ":47" suffix before, so it looks odd, but I guess it's needed to tell the ssh server which "line" to use. In any case, it looks like there is in fact a user name configured, instead of the non-user-oriented telnet access. Thanks, Phil From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Tue Jul 6 08:30:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17AC3A69C9 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:30:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.217 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.217 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.133, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6BQXx1rgtbnu for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669803A680D for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34688C0006; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:30:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kniDaVrTPgY2; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:30:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BDDC0002; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:30:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 903BF1388ADF; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:30:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:30:19 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Phil Shafer Message-ID: <20100706153019.GA1388@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Phil Shafer , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <201007061441.o66EfoUf076936@idle.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201007061441.o66EfoUf076936@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:30:27 -0000 On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 04:41:50PM +0200, Phil Shafer wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > >This has implications to 4742bis since it should spell out how the > >NETCONF username is provided when SSH is being used. (And the text on > >authentication requirements in the access control ID probably should > >be reviewed and where approriate incorporated into 4742bis.) > > Be aware that many low-end devices (and more than a few high-end > ones) do not have the concept of "user" at all, with just a single > password prompt at login time. I'll admit complete ignorance about > how ssh is implemented on those devices, given that the ones I have > at hand don't support ssh. The SSH protocols requires to ship a username, whatever the device does with it I do not know. I know that some of our equipment (and it is not CISCO gear) does not remember a user name - so if you change privilege level and you go through RADIUS, the box simply asks again for your user name (since it obviously forgot how you came into the box via SSH in the first place). Frankly, this is somewhat annoying but I am able to live with it. Anyway, for SSH it should be pretty straight forward to explain how a username is derived. Everything else is pretty much implementation detail except that access control will at the end have to know which access control policies to apply (so some idea who got authenticated is better preserved somewhere). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From mark.scott@ericsson.com Tue Jul 6 08:36:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948263A65A6 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uEdd2aBlurJ4 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBDC3A63C9 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o66FZi8N002370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:35:45 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.39]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:35:42 -0400 From: Mark Scott To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:35:41 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Thread-Index: Acsc8JiVZwcW39A7Ruu2dwA/Dc/GdAALli/w Message-ID: <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E8D752A@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:36:06 -0000 Juergen, Is the intention to state that the NETCONF username will be protocol and au= thentication method specific and the key requirement is that a value be pro= vided in all cases? OR Is the plan to establish some rules around the username derivation to enabl= e the NACM work? The 'whose permissions are known to the server' seems to = imply some consistency in derivation. For example, will consistent NETCONF= usernames be generated across protocols? Across sessions? What about auth= entication schemes such as host-based SSH where there is no username would = we want to standardize on user of hostname/IP/other? Mark -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Juergen Schoenwaelder Sent: July-06-10 5:50 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Hi, the monitoring draft triggered some discussion that the secure transports must provide an authenticated NETCONF username. Such a username is exported in the monitoring module and also used in an access control proposal. Since different transports support different authentication schemes, it should be the responsibility of the transport documents to spell out how a username is derived for the authentication mechanisms supported. The upcoming 4741bis has been updated to make that clear. The relevant paragraph: The authentication process MUST result in an authenticated client identity whose permissions are known to the server. The authenticated identity of a client is commonly referred to as the NETCONF username. The algorithm used to derive the username is transport protocol specific and in addition specific to the authentication mechanism used by the transport protocol. NETCONF transport protocols therefore MUST explain how a NETCONF username is derived from the authentication mechanisms supported by the transport protocol. This has implications to 4742bis since it should spell out how the NETCONF username is provided when SSH is being used. (And the text on authentication requirements in the access control ID probably should be reviewed and where approriate incorporated into 4742bis.) /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Tue Jul 6 11:23:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62E63A67A4 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:23:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.154, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W0uQ+q6QXtin for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C83B3A693D for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03ABC0004; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QIzdMjSf1Mf0; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439FFC0002; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 41A73138921A; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:40 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mark Scott Message-ID: <20100706182340.GA2118@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Mark Scott , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E8D752A@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E8D752A@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:23:47 -0000 On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 05:35:41PM +0200, Mark Scott wrote: > Is the intention to state that the NETCONF username will be protocol > and authentication method specific and the key requirement is that a > value be provided in all cases? > > OR > > Is the plan to establish some rules around the username derivation > to enable the NACM work? The 'whose permissions are known to the > server' seems to imply some consistency in derivation. For example, > will consistent NETCONF usernames be generated across protocols? > Across sessions? What about authentication schemes such as > host-based SSH where there is no username would we want to > standardize on user of hostname/IP/other? Well, this username first appeared in the monitoring MIB (which you are a co-author of) and I asked the mailing list whether it is understood what we are going to get into. Now we are in it (and frankly for access control to work, we have to go through this). You ask several questions. Q1: Is the NETCONF username protocol and authentication method specific? A1: I consider the NETCONF username equivalent to the notion of SNMP's snmpSecurityName, which is qualified by the security model and in some cases of ISMS in addition by the transport model so that a TLS user joe can be distinguished from an SSH user joe if this is desirable. Q2: Is the NETCONF username value provided in all cases? A2: It better is if we want access control to be meaningful. Q3: For example, will consistent NETCONF usernames be generated across protocols? A3: I assume you mean transport protocols. In ISMS, we ended up supporting both via a transport model prefix that can be added. Q4: What about authentication schemes such as host-based SSH where there is no username would we want to standardize on user of hostname/IP/other? A4: That needs to be worked out. And given my ISMS experience, the real fun starts when we hit X.509 certificates. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From mbj@tail-f.com Tue Jul 6 12:48:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 132093A6822 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOKsTc-PUpPq for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048AB3A692C for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (78-70-162-131-no181.tbcn.telia.com [78.70.162.131]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E1BD616005; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:48:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:48:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20100706.214800.188074303.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20100706153019.GA1388@elstar.local> References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <201007061441.o66EfoUf076936@idle.juniper.net> <20100706153019.GA1388@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 7.0.50 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:48:02 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Anyway, for SSH it should be pretty straight forward to explain how a > username is derived. Maybe, but note that even in SSH the user name can depend on the authentication method. In http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netconf/current/msg05993.html I wrote: It turns out that the 'user name' field can be empty, and the real user name derived from other authentication messages, see section 3.1 and 3.2 of RFC 4462. /martin From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Tue Jul 6 13:05:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692FC3A690E for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.326 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.326 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.923, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c2-o6Ih2tYJm for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B303A6899 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E32C0006; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:05:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EKGAqzIRu7EC; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:05:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A7EC0004; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:05:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3E1651389569; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:05:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:05:28 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Message-ID: <20100706200528.GA2360@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , "phil@juniper.net" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <201007061441.o66EfoUf076936@idle.juniper.net> <20100706153019.GA1388@elstar.local> <20100706.214800.188074303.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100706.214800.188074303.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:05:34 -0000 On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 09:48:00PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > Anyway, for SSH it should be pretty straight forward to explain how a > > username is derived. > > Maybe, but note that even in SSH the user name can depend on the > authentication method. In > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netconf/current/msg05993.html I wrote: > > It turns out that the 'user name' field can be empty, and the real > user name derived from other authentication messages, see section > 3.1 and 3.2 of RFC 4462. I guess this is still simple compared to the fun you can have with X.509 certificates. Section 3.2 of RFC 4462 actually says: The user name may be an empty string if it can be deduced from the results of the GSS-API authentication. My reading is that even if there is no user name in the SSH_MSG_USERAUTH_REQUEST, the GSS-API has to provide a user name and hence there is always something like a user name involved in the authentication exchange. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From wjhns1@hardakers.net Tue Jul 6 15:48:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04BDD3A6A09 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:48:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7lvD7JnzudUc for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (hardaker-pt.tunnel.tserv1.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f00:ffff::af]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158E33A66B4 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (wjh.hardakers.net [10.0.0.2]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31CE79844F; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: Mark Scott Organization: Sparta References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E8D752A@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> <20100706182340.GA2118@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:48:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20100706182340.GA2118@elstar.local> (Juergen Schoenwaelder's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:40 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:48:26 -0000 >>>>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:40 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder said: JS> Q4: What about authentication schemes such as host-based SSH where JS> there is no username would we want to standardize on user of JS> hostname/IP/other? JS> A4: That needs to be worked out. And given my ISMS experience, the JS> real fun starts when we hit X.509 certificates. It's certainly interesting that RFC5539 specifies no way to come up with a username to even pass to an access control system. I suspect that'll need a -bis before it can be used with whatever resulting access control document this WG produces. -- Wes Hardaker Cobham Analytic Solutions From robert.g.cole@us.army.mil Thu Jul 8 07:17:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2D13A6AC1 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.67 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.929, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xccwX0AfiqPU for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddokavsgwhub003.conus.army.mil (ddokavsgwhub003.conus.army.mil [143.85.192.19]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4369C3A684E for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:17:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=us.army.mil; i=Robert.G.Cole@us.army.mil; q=dns/txt; s=conusdkim; t=1278598659; x=1310134659; h=mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date: message-id:in-reply-to:references:from:to; z=MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted- printable|Subject:=20Draft=20Agenda=20for=20the=20NETCONF =20Session=20-=20verify?=20(UNCLASSIFIED)|Date:=20Thu,=20 8=20Jul=202010=2010:16:30=20-0400|Message-ID:=20|In-Reply-To:=20<80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64 A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net>|References:=20<80A0822C5 E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> |From:=20"Cole,=20Robert=20G=20Dr=20CIV=20USA"=20|To:=20"Ersue,=20Mehmet=20(NSN=20-=20D E/Munich)"=20,=0D=0A=09; bh=NWYn5HBU375NsgbJa+aYuseL+UiEAS211jOowoOtox4=; b=FdzVMuXByS8/cMmyaZAaHGpFkBgPSyTpFe4SwLKDDLpHzzdkgg5YgV/5 lYILKgr/UKcPhchQ4Z4QvTaQR9dOoKHcz3uREp9noo8Fp6buQLdR8k3VT Z3OdL94T7MquKRHZHUYvv3I8LlbHoaS8nVEJw9aObwfJ153kqhgjslCsn 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,558,1272844800"; d="scan'208";a="82580025" Received: from unknown (HELO DDOKBH110HUB006.dahq.ds.army.mil) ([143.82.0.37]) by ddokavsgwhub003.conus.army.mil with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2010 14:17:32 +0000 Received: from APGR010BH000002.nae.ds.army.mil ([130.114.19.196]) by DDOKBH110HUB006.dahq.ds.army.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:17:32 -0500 Received: from APGR010BEC80011.nae.ds.army.mil ([130.114.226.157]) by APGR010BH000002.nae.ds.army.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:17:18 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:16:30 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session - verify? (UNCLASSIFIED) Thread-Index: AcsZIBNNaRIrMVXpSTmQvDTTK9k9VQFgmKnA References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> From: "Cole, Robert G Dr CIV USA" To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2010 14:17:19.0104 (UTC) FILETIME=[462F6000:01CB1EA8] Subject: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session - verify? (UNCLASSIFIED) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:17:37 -0000 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Mehmet, Bert, Time permitting, I would like to request a small timeslot on the NETCONF agenda to discuss the draft-cole-netconf-verify-00 ? =20 Also, we have drafted an associated test module in YANG (draft-cole-netconf-transaction-00). Is this something to be discussed within NETCONF or NETMOD? Thanks, Bob Cole Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Thu Jul 8 08:21:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266CD3A67F9 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:21:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.604, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zAjaYLaVL9ow for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2B53A6B03 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o68FLDTN016578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:21:13 +0200 Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.11]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o68FL4do023736; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:21:13 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:20:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:20:51 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64ACC083@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session - verify? (UNCLASSIFIED) Thread-Index: AcsZIBNNaRIrMVXpSTmQvDTTK9k9VQFgmKnAAAM+NdA= References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Cole, Robert G Dr CIV USA" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2010 15:20:52.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[274B92E0:01CB1EB1] Subject: Re: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session - verify? (UNCLASSIFIED) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:21:14 -0000 Hi Bob, I think we can arrange this. YANG modules related to NETCONF can be discussed in=20 NETCONF WG.=20 Cheers, Mehmet =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Cole, Robert G Dr CIV USA=20 > [mailto:Robert.G.Cole@us.army.mil]=20 > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:17 PM > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session - verify? (UNCLASSIFIED) >=20 > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE >=20 > Mehmet, Bert, >=20 > Time permitting, I would like to request a small timeslot on=20 > the NETCONF > agenda to discuss the draft-cole-netconf-verify-00 ? =20 >=20 > Also, we have drafted an associated test module in YANG > (draft-cole-netconf-transaction-00). Is this something to be=20 > discussed > within NETCONF or NETMOD? >=20 > Thanks, > Bob Cole > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE >=20 >=20 >=20 From mark.scott@ericsson.com Thu Jul 8 13:12:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437393A682B for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tx4nN-dC+vHv for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40223A6895 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o68KCmEQ029142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:12:48 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.39]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:12:46 -0400 From: Mark Scott To: Wes Hardaker Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:12:45 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Thread-Index: AcsdXWGCBL7vaQ2TRp2zvbN8+tWGHABd1n5Q Message-ID: <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E916722@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <75C89D709A9670428520E1CF8DD1344F208E8D752A@EUSAACMS0714.eamcs.ericsson.se> <20100706182340.GA2118@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:12:50 -0000 Wes, Agree and think a -bis may be warranted for any Netconf transport RFC where= the access control expects standardized authentication, session mgmt or ot= her data and/or behaviour. Imo, priority should be given to standardize SSH since it is the mandatory = Netconf transport protocol. We should at minimum have recommendations for = the others though. >From an earlier offline discussion held in the context of the monitoring dr= aft the (rough) assessment for each Netconf transport RFC which may be usef= ul for this discussion: 1. rfc4743/SOAP: Map the Netconf identity to the http transport identity = which was used to initiate the session? (since sec 3.4 states the netconf = session must be maintained, including authentication). Is there a common d= erivation for all options specified in 4.1? 2. rfc4742/SSH: "SSH_MSG_USERAUTH_REQUEST" independent of authentication = method used =20 3. rfc5539/tls: the only must for client identity seems to be certificat= es (sec 2.1). The contents of these vary considerably so suggest we use th= e "Subject Name" from X.509. 4. rfc4744/beep: I don't know much about BEEP but the SASL authenticatio= n identity looks appropriate. I don't know if we need to account for proxi= es here. Note that the monitoring draft ultimately did not include this information = and we did not reach consensus on the completeness or accuracy of the infor= mation above. Any updates/recommendations anyone can provide would be useful. cheers, Mark -----Original Message----- From: Wes Hardaker [mailto:wjhns1@hardakers.net]=20 Sent: July-06-10 6:48 PM To: Mark Scott Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis >>>>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:23:40 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder said: JS> Q4: What about authentication schemes such as host-based SSH where JS> there is no username would we want to standardize on user of JS> hostname/IP/other? JS> A4: That needs to be worked out. And given my ISMS experience, the JS> real fun starts when we hit X.509 certificates. It's certainly interesting that RFC5539 specifies no way to come up with a username to even pass to an access control system. I suspect that'll need a -bis before it can be used with whatever resulting access control document this WG produces. --=20 Wes Hardaker Cobham Analytic Solutions From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Jul 9 07:31:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937233A6A63 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.402, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dxC6A-SA0DCo for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1DF3A67A1 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o69EUm6k032068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:30:49 +0200 Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.11]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o69EUBsh003164; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:30:46 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:30:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB1F72.93CA485A" Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:25:27 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64ACC4C3@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session Thread-Index: AcsZIBNNaRIrMVXpSTmQvDTTK9k9VQGUhSTA From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2010 14:30:22.0589 (UTC) FILETIME=[439772D0:01CB1F73] Subject: [Netconf] FW: Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:31:03 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1F72.93CA485A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, please find below an update for the draft agenda for the=20 NETCONF session in Maastricht. Please send us your comments=20 by July 15, 2010. Mehmet & Bert _______________ NETCONF WG=20 IETF 78 -Maastricht, Netherlands July 25-30, 2010 MONDAY, July 26, 2010 - 1300-1500 Afternoon Session I WG Chairs: Bert Wijnen Mehmet Ersue Scribes (IF no_volunteers THEN wait_forever)=20 Agenda bashing (2 minutes)=20 WG status review (5 minutes)=20 Chartered items: 1. 4741bis-draft - M. Bjorklund/J. Sch=F6nw=E4lder/A. Bierman (40 = minutes) http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-4741bis=20 2. 4742bis draft (NETCONF over SSH) - M. Wasserman/T. Goddard (15 = minutes) http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis Non-Chartered items: 1. Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model - A. = Bierman (20 minutes)=20 = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bierman-netconf-access-control 2. NETCONF System Monitoring - A. Bierman (10 minutes)=20 = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bierman-netconf-system-monitoring 3. A Verification Proceedure for Configuration Management within = NETCONF - B. Cole (10min) http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cole-netconf-verify 4. A Transaction Test Module for the NETCONF Verify Operation - B. = Cole (10min) http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cole-netconf-transaction Open mike (5 minutes) Any other topics to discuss?=20 AOB ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1F72.93CA485A Content-Type: text/plain; name="100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: 100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt" DQpORVRDT05GIFdHIA0KSUVURiA3OCAtTWFhc3RyaWNodCwgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNCg0KSnVseSAy NS0zMCwgMjAxMA0KDQoNCk1PTkRBWSwgSnVseSAyNiwgMjAxMCAtIDEzMDAtMTUwMCBBZnRlcm5v b24gU2Vzc2lvbiBJDQoNCiAgIFdHIENoYWlyczoNCiAgIEJlcnQgV2lqbmVuIDxiZXJ0aWV0ZkBi d2lqbmVuLm5ldD4NCiAgIE1laG1ldCBFcnN1ZSA8bWVobWV0LmVyc3VlQG5zbi5jb20+DQoNCiAg IFNjcmliZXMgKElGIG5vX3ZvbHVudGVlcnMgVEhFTiB3YWl0X2ZvcmV2ZXIpIA0KICAgQWdlbmRh IGJhc2hpbmcgKDIgbWludXRlcykgDQogICBXRyBzdGF0dXMgcmV2aWV3ICg1IG1pbnV0ZXMpIA0K DQogICBDaGFydGVyZWQgaXRlbXM6DQoNCiAgICAgIDEuIDQ3NDFiaXMtZHJhZnQgLSBNLiBCam9y a2x1bmQvSi4gU2No9m535GxkZXIvQS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMzAgbWludXRlcykNCiAgICAgICAgICBo dHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldGNvbmYtNDc0MWJpcyANCg0K ICAgTm9uLUNoYXJ0ZXJlZCBpdGVtczoNCg0KICAgICAgMS4gTmV0d29yayBDb25maWd1cmF0aW9u IFByb3RvY29sIEFjY2VzcyBDb250cm9sIE1vZGVsIC0gQS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMTUgbWludXRlcykg DQogICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYmllcm1hbi1uZXRj b25mLWFjY2Vzcy1jb250cm9sDQogICAgICAyLiBORVRDT05GIFN5c3RlbSBNb25pdG9yaW5nIC0g QS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMTAgbWludXRlcykgDQogICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3Jn L2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYmllcm1hbi1uZXRjb25mLXN5c3RlbS1tb25pdG9yaW5nDQoNCiAgIE9wZW4g bWlrZSAoNSBtaW51dGVzKQ0KICAgICAgQW55IG90aGVyIHRvcGljcyB0byBkaXNjdXNzPyANCg0K ICAgQU9CDQoNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1F72.93CA485A Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT3015009.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: ATT3015009.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT3015009.txt" X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk5ldGNvbmYg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB1F72.93CA485A-- From root@core3.amsl.com Mon Jul 12 08:45:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id C56DF3A6824; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100712154502.C56DF3A6824@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action:draft-ietf-netconf-4741bis-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:45:03 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Author(s) : R. Enns, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-4741bis-03.txt Pages : 119 Date : 2010-07-12 The Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) defined in this document provides mechanisms to install, manipulate, and delete the configuration of network devices. It uses an Extensible Markup Language (XML)-based data encoding for the configuration data as well as the protocol messages. The NETCONF protocol operations are realized as Remote Procedure Calls (RPC). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netconf-4741bis-03.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-netconf-4741bis-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-07-12084320.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From mrw@lilacglade.org Tue Jul 13 05:06:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C533A6934 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:06:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z5giCV+g7rg7 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B5C3A68F0 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hPt11e0030vyq2s51Q6R1m; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:06:25 +0000 Received: from [10.36.0.42] ([98.110.155.200]) by omta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hQ6E1e0034Khd5e3RQ6Gpb; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:06:23 +0000 Message-Id: <806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org> From: Margaret Wasserman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder In-Reply-To: <4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:06:13 -0400 References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:06:18 -0000 Hi Juergen, Bert passed on your e-mail below, and I am not sure what changes you are proposing for the SSH draft. When using SSH, the username is (implicitly or explicitly) supplied when the SSH client is invoked. The user name isn't derived using any algorithm, it is supplied by the client. Should I just say that? Or are you looking for some additional explanation? Margaret On Jul 6, 2010, at 6:14 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > Thanks Juergen. > > Margaret, can you please take this into account when doing the new > rev (RSN I hope)! > > Bert > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> Hi, >> >> the monitoring draft triggered some discussion that the secure >> transports must provide an authenticated NETCONF username. Such a >> username is exported in the monitoring module and also used in an >> access control proposal. Since different transports support different >> authentication schemes, it should be the responsibility of the >> transport documents to spell out how a username is derived for the >> authentication mechanisms supported. The upcoming 4741bis has been >> updated to make that clear. The relevant paragraph: >> >> The authentication process MUST result in an authenticated client >> identity whose permissions are known to the server. The >> authenticated identity of a client is commonly referred to as the >> NETCONF username. The algorithm used to derive the username is >> transport protocol specific and in addition specific to the >> authentication mechanism used by the transport protocol. NETCONF >> transport protocols therefore MUST explain how a NETCONF username >> is >> derived from the authentication mechanisms supported by the >> transport >> protocol. >> >> This has implications to 4742bis since it should spell out how the >> NETCONF username is provided when SSH is being used. (And the text on >> authentication requirements in the access control ID probably should >> be reviewed and where approriate incorporated into 4742bis.) >> >> /js >> >> > From mrw@lilacglade.org Tue Jul 13 05:07:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63393A6A18 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:07:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AWwWeqeyUEl8 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CEB3A6A05 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta16.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.88]) by qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hPHk1e0041uE5Es52Q7tnt; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:07:53 +0000 Received: from [10.36.0.42] ([98.110.155.200]) by omta16.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hQ7i1e0014Khd5e3cQ7kEM; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:07:51 +0000 Message-Id: <94AD742F-1802-4FDB-891D-C8CF09CC2498@lilacglade.org> From: Margaret Wasserman To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:07:41 -0400 References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:07:43 -0000 Hi Mehmet, Could I have a few minutes in the agenda to discuss the SSH username issue and what to say about it in the 4742bis document? It is possible that we will resolve the issue before the meeting, in which case we can drop this item. I just want to make sure we have a few minutes to discuss it if necessary. Thanks, Margaret On Jul 1, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > Dear NETCONF WG, > > attached is the draft agenda we prepared so far. Please check it > and give us your comments by July 6, 2010 EOB. > <<100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt>> > > There was a long discussion on the WG chairs list concerning > the scarce session time in the IETF #78 agenda and that some > of the requested sessions will not be possible to schedule. > > If the draft authors and the WG agrees we want to give one hour > of our session time free for further agenda usage in Maastricht. > Please speak up if you have any additional serious topics to discuss > in NETCONF session. > > Mehmet & Bert > > > < > 100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_ > .txt>_______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Tue Jul 13 08:08:52 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C1B3A67E7 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:08:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.358 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.358 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.241, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HagY0gMCmRo8 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF583A67AC for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6DF8wfG009099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:08:58 +0200 Received: from demuexc023.nsn-intra.net (demuexc023.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.36]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6DF8tca015634; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:08:58 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc023.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:08:57 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:08:55 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B18C7D@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <94AD742F-1802-4FDB-891D-C8CF09CC2498@lilacglade.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session Thread-Index: AcsihAczqhfEj4F7T7iYM7yEtZbsMQAGME6A References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64A24BE9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <94AD742F-1802-4FDB-891D-C8CF09CC2498@lilacglade.org> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Margaret Wasserman" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2010 15:08:57.0264 (UTC) FILETIME=[50E5D300:01CB229D] Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:08:52 -0000 Hi Margaret, it makes sense to discuss the issue of username together with=20 4741bis at the beginning of the session, so you are possibly=20 free after the first 10min. ;)=20 Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Margaret Wasserman [mailto:mrw@lilacglade.org] > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:08 PM > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] Draft Agenda for the NETCONF Session >=20 > Hi Mehmet, >=20 > Could I have a few minutes in the agenda to discuss the SSH username > issue and what to say about it in the 4742bis document? It is > possible that we will resolve the issue before the meeting, in which > case we can drop this item. I just want to make sure we have a few > minutes to discuss it if necessary. >=20 > Thanks, > Margaret >=20 > On Jul 1, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >=20 > > > > Dear NETCONF WG, > > > > attached is the draft agenda we prepared so far. Please check it > > and give us your comments by July 6, 2010 EOB. > > <<100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_.txt>> > > > > There was a long discussion on the WG chairs list concerning > > the scarce session time in the IETF #78 agenda and that some > > of the requested sessions will not be possible to schedule. > > > > If the draft authors and the WG agrees we want to give one hour > > of our session time free for further agenda usage in Maastricht. > > Please speak up if you have any additional serious topics to discuss > > in NETCONF session. > > > > Mehmet & Bert > > > > > > < > > 100701_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78_ > > .txt>_______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From ietf@andybierman.com Tue Jul 13 10:02:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6D53A6A97 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.264, BAYES_05=-1.11, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d-D-hXRu8Bfe for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A07243A6A76 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 40716 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2010 17:02:21 -0000 Received: from cpe-75-84-164-152.socal.res.rr.com (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2010 10:02:21 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: sp1f_0oVM1mbzAj_P8MtODmGPqwTnpKCZR4kKSUQgMvdiA3uCIWdN0Y8WPqXoy931ROIy.u4n_DDKSYKg7RL401CiyL3GCzYM2CwZqj031RMGH8SUeihuvbWX8ZZfrLhz190RXsblIouPDjmCpxUKsc.dBP7FPj9ozNL2c4rQpAR3yeaFyJ85py63AzXFGboxhrQUILYXdvmgE51E6UolKteTTj1jh.aATp_Iim0pxqQA2dmK_0.8ytNQstIwHYZg2f1WmARxNBs4DBw9_8vM8aMZYXGTp8sw7lyr8qK4Sq6d76xMQbow6C.TyJ9P3z1ERwVigBmjqBdGzBGDJFOhMw- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C3C9C18.9000301@andybierman.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:02:16 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Netconf] netconf agenda X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:02:16 -0000 Hi, 1) I think the total time for NACM will probably take 30 minutes, not 15. We will have some charter text to propose/discuss at the meeting. 2) I will be using this email address (ietf@andybierman.com) for awhile. do not send mail to andyb@iwl.com. thanks, Andy From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Tue Jul 13 15:03:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7083A6A01 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:03:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.201, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyspF3M3s24j for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89A03A69F4 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6DM3bxE002453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:03:37 +0200 Received: from demuexc022.nsn-intra.net (demuexc022.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.35]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6DM3ZCI023788 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:03:37 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc022.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:03:34 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB22D7.057D2311" Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:01:58 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B18D06@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <4C3C9C18.9000301@andybierman.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf agenda Thread-Index: AcsirS3Qb3AaNAhuSFSIpkJhaFOLUwAKIOTw References: <4C3C9C18.9000301@andybierman.com> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Andy Bierman" , "NETCONF" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2010 22:03:34.0188 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CB32EC0:01CB22D7] Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf agenda X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:03:32 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB22D7.057D2311 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, attached is an update for the agenda, which we tuned a bit. Presenters: Please send us your slides by 7/22 so that we have some time to tune the slots or iterate the slides as=20 necessary. Thank you. Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of ext Andy Bierman > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:02 PM > To: NETCONF > Subject: [Netconf] netconf agenda >=20 > Hi, >=20 > 1) I think the total time for NACM will probably take 30 minutes, not > 15. > We will have some charter text to propose/discuss at the meeting. > 2) I will be using this email address (ietf@andybierman.com) for > awhile. do not send mail to andyb@iwl.com. >=20 >=20 > thanks, > Andy > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB22D7.057D2311 Content-Type: text/plain; name="100713_Draft_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: 100713_Draft_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100713_Draft_Agenda_NETCONF_IETF78.txt" DQpORVRDT05GIFdHIA0KSUVURiA3OCAtTWFhc3RyaWNodCwgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNCg0KSnVseSAy NS0zMCwgMjAxMA0KDQoNCk1PTkRBWSwgSnVseSAyNiwgMjAxMCAtIDEzMDAtMTUwMCBBZnRlcm5v b24gU2Vzc2lvbiBJDQoNCiAgIFdHIENoYWlyczoNCiAgIEJlcnQgV2lqbmVuIDxiZXJ0aWV0ZkBi d2lqbmVuLm5ldD4NCiAgIE1laG1ldCBFcnN1ZSA8bWVobWV0LmVyc3VlQG5zbi5jb20+DQoNCiAg IFNjcmliZXMgKElGIG5vX3ZvbHVudGVlcnMgVEhFTiB3YWl0X2ZvcmV2ZXIpIA0KICAgQWdlbmRh IGJhc2hpbmcgKDIgbWludXRlcykgDQogICBXRyBzdGF0dXMgcmV2aWV3ICg1IG1pbnV0ZXMpIA0K DQogICBDaGFydGVyZWQgaXRlbXM6DQoNCiAgICAgIDEuIDQ3NDJiaXMgZHJhZnQgKE5FVENPTkYg b3ZlciBTU0gpIC0gTS4gV2Fzc2VybWFuL1QuIEdvZGRhcmQgKDEwIG1pbnV0ZXMpDQogICAgICAg ICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRjb25mLXJmYzQ3NDJi aXMNCiAgICAgIDIuIDQ3NDFiaXMtZHJhZnQgLSBNLiBCam9ya2x1bmQvSi4gU2No9m535GxkZXIv QS4gQmllcm1hbiAoNDAgbWludXRlcykNCiAgICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcv aHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldGNvbmYtNDc0MWJpcyANCg0KICAgTm9uLUNoYXJ0ZXJlZCBpdGVt czoNCg0KICAgICAgMS4gTmV0d29yayBDb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIFByb3RvY29sIEFjY2VzcyBDb250 cm9sIE1vZGVsIC0gQS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMzAgbWludXRlcykgDQogICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rv b2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYmllcm1hbi1uZXRjb25mLWFjY2Vzcy1jb250cm9sDQog ICAgICAyLiBORVRDT05GIFN5c3RlbSBNb25pdG9yaW5nIC0gQS4gQmllcm1hbiAoMTAgbWludXRl cykgDQogICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYmllcm1hbi1u ZXRjb25mLXN5c3RlbS1tb25pdG9yaW5nDQogICAgICAzLiBBIFZlcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBQcm9jZWVk dXJlIGZvciBDb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIE1hbmFnZW1lbnQgd2l0aGluIE5FVENPTkYgLSBCLiBDb2xl ICgxMG1pbikNCiAgICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1jb2xl LW5ldGNvbmYtdmVyaWZ5DQogICAgICAgICAgQSBUcmFuc2FjdGlvbiBUZXN0IE1vZHVsZSBmb3Ig dGhlIE5FVENPTkYgVmVyaWZ5IE9wZXJhdGlvbiAtIEIuIENvbGUgICg1bWluKQ0KICAgICAgICAg IGh0dHA6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWNvbGUtbmV0Y29uZi10cmFuc2FjdGlv bg0KDQoNCiAgIE9wZW4gbWlrZSAoNSBtaW51dGVzKQ0KICAgICAgQW55IG90aGVyIHRvcGljcyB0 byBkaXNjdXNzPyANCg0KICAgQU9CDQoNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB22D7.057D2311-- From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Tue Jul 13 15:14:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A563A6833 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.167 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.167 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.332, BAYES_40=-0.185, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgXYGRAjsaMq for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93EC3A69F1 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9CEC0004; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:14:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GMX2c0XG0CuO; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:14:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D02C0015; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:14:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 097CD13ACEE4; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:14:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:14:13 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Margaret Wasserman Message-ID: <20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Margaret Wasserman , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net> <806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:14:15 -0000 On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 02:06:13PM +0200, Margaret Wasserman wrote: > Bert passed on your e-mail below, and I am not sure what changes you > are proposing for the SSH draft. > > When using SSH, the username is (implicitly or explicitly) supplied > when the SSH client is invoked. The user name isn't derived using any > algorithm, it is supplied by the client. > > Should I just say that? Or are you looking for some additional > explanation? You may want to read about the different authentication methods SSH supports, see also some comments recently made on the mailing list. Note that we are talking about the SSH _server_ - so it matters how a user identity is communicated and authenticated to the server. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 14 12:42:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989313A6A30 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2mdMplbSxuJM for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp106.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp106.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.14.109]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CA6A43A69EC for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9203 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2010 19:42:38 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp106.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2010 12:42:38 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: LARCMVIVM1lRfTCUIXw9YZ6V_VftVNAIx3XSXgpV_msTKis STKxtt7q141aO0E4BPrMZGk0zAnCQ9l8l.qtLwVNVYz_7wT3SabrbtQd5m0v 3J6_LCWTipMstoQABznDigxhQCwjUdefMgahtFOGTZw_z_qu5ymzA_ogS3PU 7qphqvlkgQEEFm7SBkPbavYlwBcrqw5B6JbvKnHYFIq_5BnBOnsSsleTWb20 i4jP0MhWX7YeIJdrkOgxOJZ8tef2xfSmh9TWT02bPvsspTHv5oAiDuG6h.vs - X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:25 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:42:31 -0000 Hi, I suspect this has already occurred to some people, but why not use XPath to solve network-wide config problems? Each server has a set of XPath variables and the client config is allowed to have XPath expressions instead of plain values: server-a var: maxmtu = 1500 server-b var: maxmtu = 9000 eth0 $maxmtu The application fills in the XPath expression value before sending this config to a server. Another option is to load the variable set into the server and make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g., leave $maxmtu in the edit-config PDU). This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some really complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF was going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands for 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) Andy From dromasca@avaya.com Thu Jul 15 03:08:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFC53A69D6 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 03:08:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.343 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.343 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.256, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eBzsRFdNib3r for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 03:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221CB3A69CB for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 03:08:23 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,207,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="227963639" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 15 Jul 2010 06:08:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,207,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="491875401" Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.14]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 15 Jul 2010 06:08:33 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:08:18 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Thread-Index: AcsjjL3wa8hUpHDRSDWcaY2iYNGwJQAeNJiA References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Andy Bierman" , "NETCONF" Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:08:25 -0000 As a contributor - I am interested.=20 If I need to do more, like find a room (or a bar) let me know.=20 Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:42 PM > To: NETCONF > Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I suspect this has already occurred to some people, but why=20 > not use XPath to solve network-wide config problems? >=20 > Each server has a set of XPath variables and the client=20 > config is allowed to have XPath expressions instead of plain values: >=20 >=20 > server-a var: maxmtu =3D 1500 > server-b var: maxmtu =3D 9000 >=20 >=20 > > > > eth0 > $maxmtu > > > >=20 >=20 > The application fills in the XPath expression value before=20 > sending this config to a server. > Another option is to load the variable set into the server=20 > and make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g.,=20 > leave $maxmtu in the edit-config PDU). >=20 > This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some really=20 > complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. >=20 > I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. > I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. > Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF was=20 > going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands for=20 > 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 15 06:26:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697973A6A93 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:26:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.693, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QnJghgNwPkr1 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 467A03A6A8A for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 47674 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2010 13:26:13 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2010 06:26:13 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: 3rfcGO8VM1nPdiS3u_WSx5SpdcxIE.EYzRlnN_LDg5qgRrB sG99nbbvdANO3Go7HsVGzuKkCej4K0NwD9_TXT9uvMGIRwWcHinKAziWLJss YvS_mXIoVb65viECJxvBErT9U7nE1Bu5wE7.koPdvWR9nyZHpswOSIYXzKxZ xc_vw8OpD8zFbRePErX5BZGQPKyuyzIf73pcyh6QfVssy5jCXkwq6gpPmIxM 8wfJWMoPbzwt4m09tm_RYzG0kdTKThn7Kc4w1TWEosTTvytKj97.ng2gjZpX p8W11yHie2y.hJqOYWUuJ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:25:56 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:26:07 -0000 On 07/15/2010 03:08 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > As a contributor - I am interested. > > If I need to do more, like find a room (or a bar) let me know. > OK -- not sure if there is enough interest yet. There isn't any draft to discuss. The first step is to even decide if this is purely an internal application problem or if the problem space extends beyond the application. If there is a need for any standard functionality between the application and the servers? What would that solution look like, and does it impact the device-level protocol (NETCONF)? > Dan Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:42 PM >> To: NETCONF >> Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >> >> Hi, >> >> I suspect this has already occurred to some people, but why >> not use XPath to solve network-wide config problems? >> >> Each server has a set of XPath variables and the client >> config is allowed to have XPath expressions instead of plain values: >> >> >> server-a var: maxmtu = 1500 >> server-b var: maxmtu = 9000 >> >> >> >> >> >> eth0 >> $maxmtu >> >> >> >> >> >> The application fills in the XPath expression value before >> sending this config to a server. >> Another option is to load the variable set into the server >> and make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g., >> leave $maxmtu in the edit-config PDU). >> >> This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some really >> complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. >> >> I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. >> I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. >> Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF was >> going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands for >> 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) >> >> >> Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 15 07:20:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A243A68F5 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GYLu-d7w3A5s for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.14.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1447F3A6358 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 83851 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2010 14:21:05 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp109.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2010 07:21:05 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: K3UFuYsVM1nYwDzcBFt07bB5m7OYMy.TkFTIR3_pyzyNmBx NLzbvpITudDatOh39_IF_np2PHQ0altZkP.edsY0omxqx5fol1wq49tPcb2K Pmg4kXkuRnr7maO.a5lMtuvH3xaGOvL83Cfs9BubenI6FztQS5ab9yVrnddP lx4FQThQJ2ZtoI7gL8jg363987rQh9EiYjkGi8hVfhOlEOvhhoupgkCy2zAs O2KhrSKke0gum5qfjjIrW6nG.VgqSzip7DcgrFnFkU.f5ZpvJJUvnjqghPCh i X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C3F1940.8030203@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:20:48 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:20:58 -0000 On 07/15/2010 03:08 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > As a contributor - I am interested. > > If I need to do more, like find a room (or a bar) let me know. > I should clarify what I mean by network-wide config. I suppose this could mean making network-wide changes, like the canonical example of changing the duplex mode on 2 separate devices that are connected via a switch. Another is changing the NTP server and making sure the address is updated on all NTP clients. That is not really what I mean here. Instead, I am wondering if there is a way to express configuration differently than raw XML in order to make it easier to apply to any supported device. One obvious solution is to use formulas instead of raw values, but this probably requires that the client is aware of all the differences across all the servers. Another obvious solution is to somehow borrow the 'auto-increment' concept from SQL. Many times in provisioning, the client does not care about the particular value of an INDEX component. The generic formula "make-any-new-instance" would be very helpful, but NETCONF and YANG do not support this at all. > Dan Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:42 PM >> To: NETCONF >> Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >> >> Hi, >> >> I suspect this has already occurred to some people, but why >> not use XPath to solve network-wide config problems? >> >> Each server has a set of XPath variables and the client >> config is allowed to have XPath expressions instead of plain values: >> >> >> server-a var: maxmtu = 1500 >> server-b var: maxmtu = 9000 >> >> >> >> >> >> eth0 >> $maxmtu >> >> >> >> >> >> The application fills in the XPath expression value before >> sending this config to a server. >> Another option is to load the variable set into the server >> and make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g., >> leave $maxmtu in the edit-config PDU). >> >> This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some really >> complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. >> >> I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. >> I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. >> Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF was >> going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands for >> 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) >> >> >> Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Thu Jul 15 08:43:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9C23A6AA2 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:43:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.334, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ydjrvASCU5gQ for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA86A3A69C8 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6FFh8Vo028663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:43:08 +0200 Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.11]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6FFh3Dl005533; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:43:07 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:42:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:42:31 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Thread-Index: AcskIVJfRPVllVtkSQu7/oiicxaZcAACCG6w References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Andy Bierman" , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2010 15:42:33.0045 (UTC) FILETIME=[57391850:01CB2434] Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:43:37 -0000 Hi Andy,=20 I'm interested as a contributor. But I need to understand the problem space a bit better. It would be interesting if we can list some issues for "network configuration" before we meet. Some clarifications and issue gathering: - Network Configuration associates, at least for me, with a (more or less generic) network model to be used for the configuration of the network.=20 Do we need such a model? - How about network-wide transactions to support network configuration? - Does the configuration of the network covers also self-configuration as a functionality? I think following the trend in the industry it would be interesting to enable the server for the initiation of the configuration. How about to specify "call-home" for this? - What about initial network (but also initial device) configuration as part of network bootstrapping? just some toughts . . .=20 Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of ext Andy Bierman > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:26 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: NETCONF > Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >=20 > On 07/15/2010 03:08 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > > As a contributor - I am interested. > > > > If I need to do more, like find a room (or a bar) let me know. > > >=20 > OK -- not sure if there is enough interest yet. > There isn't any draft to discuss. The first step > is to even decide if this is purely an internal > application problem or if the problem space extends > beyond the application. >=20 > If there is a need for any standard functionality between > the application and the servers? What would that solution look like, > and does it impact the device-level protocol (NETCONF)? >=20 >=20 > > Dan >=20 > Andy >=20 > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org > >> [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:42 PM > >> To: NETCONF > >> Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I suspect this has already occurred to some people, but why > >> not use XPath to solve network-wide config problems? > >> > >> Each server has a set of XPath variables and the client > >> config is allowed to have XPath expressions instead of plain values: > >> > >> > >> server-a var: maxmtu =3D 1500 > >> server-b var: maxmtu =3D 9000 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> eth0 > >> $maxmtu > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The application fills in the XPath expression value before > >> sending this config to a server. > >> Another option is to load the variable set into the server > >> and make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g., > >> leave $maxmtu in the edit-config PDU). > >> > >> This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some really > >> complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. > >> > >> I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. > >> I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. > >> Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF was > >> going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands for > >> 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) > >> > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Netconf mailing list > >> Netconf@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >> > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 15 09:43:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBE13A6AA6 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:43:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.425, BAYES_20=-0.74, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TIRymq7wKXL4 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C2A743A6A35 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6890 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2010 16:44:06 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2010 09:44:06 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: 0PtYDoUVM1kzfjdjDiMDTL03thUqxkOTtJImOK6X7lfGQvn 9bBk7DPMX19AQBnqk4T56hFXLLUDEQ_nuVk_3m2NSrS5mRRrtkGwc.2xYRJE 4BEhxvE6CuGbXnmIy6peszoh.2Mh6zl6Emap7yHbgSR8eaAV94sptfj.GaWO 0fw5kYub99FgZBZg1EqeFvbk2C7MUZJD1nXH7dUWvyD0lNUSSo5BkO.ERym7 97LYbCi3dNuGBHgJ2mo9S_vBm08NDuO7BFJT.uxzcy_aoBzpFwoJjEVi2tat YxsPPlJZszWkN95VTG8sxN2zV X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:43:48 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:43:59 -0000 On 07/15/2010 08:42 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > Hi Andy, > > I'm interested as a contributor. > > But I need to understand the problem space a bit better. > It would be interesting if we can list some issues for "network > configuration" before we meet. > > Some clarifications and issue gathering: > > - Network Configuration associates, at least for me, with a (more or > less generic) network model to be used for the configuration of the > network. OK -- this is one path -- giant UML models describing the whole network including associations. This relies on experts to create the models and tools to magically generate code from the models. Neither of these are inexpensive. > Do we need such a model? In the standards? Not sure. One experiment of interest is the conversion from UML to YANG, and at the same time, conversion from the network model to a set of server-control-blocks, which are tweaks to the YANG (features, deviations, XPath variables, etc.) at the device level. > - How about network-wide transactions to support network configuration? I always ask the same questions each of the 50 times this has come up before: Who is listening for this 'network-wide' transaction? Is this anything more than the client using N NETCONF sessions, sending commands to each one? Is this a broadcast address? A sub/pub model? Unless you introduce a mid-level-manager into the network (and asking a server to manager other servers is doing exactly that), then how does a simple NETCONF device participate in a network-wide transaction? > - Does the configuration of the network covers also self-configuration yes -- this could be called dynamic defaults for non-keys, and auto-instance-naming for key leafs. > as a functionality? I think following the trend in the industry it would > be interesting to enable the server for the initiation of the > configuration. How about to specify "call-home" for this? Callhome is a whole can of worms that the IETF already passed on. Way out of scope here. > - What about initial network (but also initial device) configuration as > part of network bootstrapping? > Initial config and passing CLI parameters to the server seems to be some sort of sacred, unmanageable part of the problem space. The NACM config is a perfect example. There is no way to ship any NACM implementation so it can be configured in-line, using NETCONF. It requires some out-of-band setup to alter the conservative defaults. IMO, this is not very good, but seems to be industry practice. BTW, I meant we should have a real Bar BOF, with beer, not a conference room with slides. > just some toughts . . . > > Mehmet > Andy From mbj@tail-f.com Thu Jul 15 13:37:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882F13A67F5 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:37:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.557, BAYES_40=-0.185, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wk7zuolFClQR for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7F73A6AD3 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (78-70-162-131-no181.tbcn.telia.com [78.70.162.131]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C191476C094; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:37:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:37:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> To: ietf@andybierman.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 7.0.50 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:37:00 -0000 Hi, Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/15/2010 08:42 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > > > I'm interested as a contributor. Me too. We started to discuss this very informally in Anaheim, and it seems some people are interested in this topic. > > But I need to understand the problem space a bit better. > > It would be interesting if we can list some issues for "network > > configuration" before we meet. > > > > Some clarifications and issue gathering: > > > > - Network Configuration associates, at least for me, with a (more or > > less generic) network model to be used for the configuration of the > > network. > > OK -- this is one path -- giant UML models describing the whole network > including associations. This relies on experts to create the models > and tools to magically generate code from the models. Neither of > these are inexpensive. I think that this network model should be a YANG model, probably specified by the same people that do the device specific YANG model. Ideally, a WG would define a device specific model (YANG) for its protocol, a network model (YANG), and mapping rules (text) from the network model to the device specific model. > > Do we need such a model? > > In the standards? Yes! But I believe that maybe this is not what Andy had in mind with his original email? > Not sure. One experiment of interest is the conversion from UML to YANG, A co-worker of mine has developed a YANG->UML converter as a pyang plugin. I expect this to be available in pyang "soon". This tool can be very useful to get a graphical overview of complicated models. Other people in my company are also working on UML->YANG tools, but I do not know the current status of that. > > - How about network-wide transactions to support network configuration? NETCONF supports one type of network-wide transaction, but it requires the devices to support the confirmed commit capability. Open one session to each device, push out the changes, do a confirmed commit in parallell, and if any device fails, revert all sessions, otherwise commit all in parallell. /martin From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Jul 16 07:35:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5C53A68F5 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:35:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.301, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JTqgbx1vWVrj for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F663A686C for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6GEZJjo012016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:35:19 +0200 Received: from demuexc023.nsn-intra.net (demuexc023.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.36]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6GEZJBb031245; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:35:19 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc023.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:35:18 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:35:15 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Thread-Index: AcskXYB7gD+YqxI6RCyEmxHZUKTanQAkDhCg References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com><80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net><4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: , "Martin Bjorklund" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2010 14:35:18.0933 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D1E3450:01CB24F4] Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:35:12 -0000 Hi, > From: ext Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > Hi, >=20 > Andy Bierman wrote: > > On 07/15/2010 08:42 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > > Hi Andy, > > > > > > I'm interested as a contributor. >=20 > Me too. We started to discuss this very informally in Anaheim, and it > seems some people are interested in this topic. >=20 > > > But I need to understand the problem space a bit better. > > > It would be interesting if we can list some issues for "network > > > configuration" before we meet. > > > > > > Some clarifications and issue gathering: > > > > > > - Network Configuration associates, at least for me, with a (more > or > > > less generic) network model to be used for the configuration of the > > > network. > > > > OK -- this is one path -- giant UML models describing the whole > network > > including associations. This relies on experts to create the models > > and tools to magically generate code from the models. Neither of > > these are inexpensive. >=20 > I think that this network model should be a YANG model, probably > specified by the same people that do the device specific YANG model. > Ideally, a WG would define a device specific model (YANG) for its > protocol, a network model (YANG), and mapping rules (text) from the > network model to the device specific model. I agree, that this should be a YANG model. But I don't know how to get there? The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. Should we use something already available or do we develop it by ourselves? It would be actually sub-optimal if it is yet another model in the industry. If we get it somewhere else we need to decide which one, since=20 getting something comprehensive and translating it into YANG is probably not the best solution. May be it is better to develop our version which we can define as the 'IETF standard model'. I at least would assume we have our own opinion what it should include and how it should look like. In any case, I see a huge value in it if the network model in YANG would be aligned with or is easily mapable to other models the industry is using currently.=20 Just in case we want to minimize the translation/mediation blues ;) > > > Do we need such a model? > > > > In the standards? >=20 > Yes! Agree. =20 > But I believe that maybe this is not what Andy had in mind with his > original email? >=20 >=20 > > Not sure. One experiment of interest is the conversion from UML to > YANG, >=20 > A co-worker of mine has developed a YANG->UML converter as a pyang > plugin. I expect this to be available in pyang "soon". This tool can > be very useful to get a graphical overview of complicated models. > Other people in my company are also working on UML->YANG tools, but I > do not know the current status of that. I think this can be done with a manageable effort. > > > - How about network-wide transactions to support network > configuration? >=20 > NETCONF supports one type of network-wide transaction, but it > requires the devices to support the confirmed commit capability. Open > one session to each device, push out the changes, do a confirmed > commit in parallell, and if any device fails, revert all sessions, > otherwise commit all in parallell. BTW: The network topology could be a bit more complicated than "1:many" only. =20 > /martin From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Fri Jul 16 09:04:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E48D3A6A0E for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.380, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id teD159FeyrPk for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3673A6A44 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AC3C0009; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:04:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75W2ai5sOAig; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:04:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8130C0004; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 74CDA13B2A4A; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:04:15 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" Message-ID: <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , NETCONF References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:04:09 -0000 On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 04:35:15PM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. > Should we use something already available or do we develop it by > ourselves? > It would be actually sub-optimal if it is yet another model in the > industry. > > If we get it somewhere else we need to decide which one, since > getting something comprehensive and translating it into YANG is probably > not the best solution. > > May be it is better to develop our version which we can define as the > 'IETF standard model'. > I at least would assume we have our own opinion what it should include > and how it should look like. > > In any case, I see a huge value in it if the network model in YANG would > be aligned with or is easily mapable to other models the industry is > using currently. So let me ask the obvious two questions: - Given the N industry network models out there, what is fundamentally wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network model? - What is the plan to get the industry network model N+1 deployed (when it is finally done in some m years)? I have been told that most bigger operators have their own databases to drive the configuration of their hardware - so who is the customer waiting for these models to deploy them in m years? Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common network model has a long history in the network management world and hence I believe it is crucial to have good convincing answers to the above two questions. (And I do not accept "we now do it all over in YANG" as a convincing answer - thats too simple.) /js (who loves to play devils advocate once in a while) -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 16 11:31:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7C63A6ACE for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:30:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.981 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.981 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.284, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q5IKqA3-8Xsm for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 42DFF3A680D for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31467 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2010 18:30:43 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2010 11:30:43 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: z6QruMsVM1kESALqrYZX1PNUq7A3nsk1zhTAeISRUNEzGQG hd4D3Sp2bWAjKTet2MySayHRo3FKWJ.Kmiijan33FAfJI5I17bu0ZifdN09S mssbhgO8frYVCBkgrW3QZnX0eFJ3XLCEJZG0gHMZmIAD.ZpLmrsEwygvm2qy ZyfLCz2nEDOMW.o.L2WE_SYNht8RtaxQ7OTSrtV8QoIUkSkgq2_j90dCsRlD aph4oOwj3_fZ5ZsF1xrPMGaVhc2C0 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C40A53B.3040207@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:30:19 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" , NETCONF References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:31:00 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:31:00 -0000 On 07/16/2010 09:04 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 04:35:15PM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > >> The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. >> Should we use something already available or do we develop it by >> ourselves? >> It would be actually sub-optimal if it is yet another model in the >> industry. >> >> If we get it somewhere else we need to decide which one, since >> getting something comprehensive and translating it into YANG is probably >> not the best solution. >> >> May be it is better to develop our version which we can define as the >> 'IETF standard model'. >> I at least would assume we have our own opinion what it should include >> and how it should look like. >> >> In any case, I see a huge value in it if the network model in YANG would >> be aligned with or is easily mapable to other models the industry is >> using currently. > > So let me ask the obvious two questions: > > - Given the N industry network models out there, what is fundamentally > wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network > model? > > - What is the plan to get the industry network model N+1 deployed > (when it is finally done in some m years)? I have been told that > most bigger operators have their own databases to drive the > configuration of their hardware - so who is the customer waiting for > these models to deploy them in m years? > > Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common network > model has a long history in the network management world and hence I > believe it is crucial to have good convincing answers to the above two > questions. (And I do not accept "we now do it all over in YANG" as a > convincing answer - thats too simple.) > What is a 'network model' exactly? Is it an info model that is little more than a generic version of a data model? If it is a giant model of all the services, then how do individual devices implement their piece of the network model? What is the role of standards for this aspect of the problem? > /js (who loves to play devils advocate once in a while) > I agree with you (3 times in a year!). I am skeptical of this approach. There is one revolutionary aspect to this approach though -- the idea that the application developers using the models will actually create UML models that drive application code generation, but also generate the YANG data models that will in turn drive server code generation. This could allow vendors to create a coordinated device model instead of the ad-hoc kitchen-sink server-developer-driven approach we have today. Andy From kwatsen@juniper.net Fri Jul 16 15:58:54 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4137D3A6862 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YNFsIcc8Pphn for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og110.obsmtp.com (exprod7og110.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.173]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E6F83A6834 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob110.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTEDkOMf2yMSWngnCU20OqLDnTmMMgSex@postini.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:59:04 PDT Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::fc92:eb1:759:2c72%11]) with mapi; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:58 -0700 From: Kent Watsen To: netconf Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:53 -0700 Thread-Topic: comingling and other data? Thread-Index: AcslOViG/PAZ3Be7TAqEQMAbp7MVfg== Message-ID: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59A75@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-cr-puzzleid: {81F4A25F-A6C5-45FF-A89A-C3DFB6B9DEE3} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: AebS B0Wd CAbg CTFX CWP6 EHnK FdP7 F43e GKbD GpiJ HVm4 HsSf IBRW JCyD Kpic LMf3; 1; bgBlAHQAYwBvAG4AZgBAAGkAZQB0AGYALgBvAHIAZwA=; Sosha1_v1; 7; {81F4A25F-A6C5-45FF-A89A-C3DFB6B9DEE3}; awB3AGEAdABzAGUAbgBAAGoAdQBuAGkAcABlAHIALgBuAGUAdAA=; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:50:53 GMT; YwBvAG0AaQBuAGcAbABpAG4AZwAgADwAcgBwAGMALQBlAHIAcgBvAHIAPgAgAGEAbgBkACAAbwB0AGgAZQByACAAZABhAHQAYQA/AA== acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Netconf] comingling and other data? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:58:54 -0000 Is this valid: ... ... ... ... Note being returned after some 's RFC 4741 has: 4741bis-03 has: Should it be instead of ? PS: I disappeared for a while as I was pulled into another project Thanks, Kent From kwatsen@juniper.net Fri Jul 16 16:21:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2CE3A6765 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:21:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Orw-dlm+RKqd for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og103.obsmtp.com (exprod7og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.159]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2AA43A6407 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob103.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTEDpabVQZwZ1Rb3/kZxkh+sh0AQu/CHR@postini.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:21:14 PDT Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::88f9:77fd:dfc:4d51%11]) with mapi; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:17:28 -0700 From: Kent Watsen To: netconf Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:17:25 -0700 Thread-Topic: commingling and other data? Thread-Index: AcslOViG/PAZ3Be7TAqEQMAbp7MVfgAA0YRg Message-ID: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59AB5@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59A75@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59A75@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Netconf] commingling and other data? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:21:03 -0000 FYI: a partner's NETCONF implementation supports having the *af= ter* the data element. They claim it's because the server may encounter th= e error after having already streamed out a partial response - so they clos= e off the element and add an Maybe it should be an then? K. -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Kent Watsen Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:51 PM To: netconf Subject: [Netconf] comingling and other data? Is this valid: ... ... ... ... Note being returned after some 's RFC 4741 has: 4741bis-03 has: Should it be instead of ? PS: I disappeared for a while as I was pulled into another project Thanks, Kent _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From bertietf@bwijnen.net Sat Jul 17 03:20:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BBBE3A68D7 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 03:20:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uzyvW9A+UJf8 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 03:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1342]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A72533A67B7 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 03:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oa4VO-0000bE-9a; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:20:31 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=BWMACBOOK.local) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oa4VJ-0003C7-3m; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:20:21 +0200 Message-ID: <4C4183E4.9080107@bwijnen.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:20:20 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd43efae0a5c95419b96ca1678d74349fd2 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd43efae0a5c95419b96ca1678d74349fd2 Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:20:23 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 04:35:15PM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > >> The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. >> Should we use something already available or do we develop it by >> ourselves? >> It would be actually sub-optimal if it is yet another model in the >> industry. >> >> If we get it somewhere else we need to decide which one, since >> getting something comprehensive and translating it into YANG is probably >> not the best solution. >> >> May be it is better to develop our version which we can define as the >> 'IETF standard model'. >> I at least would assume we have our own opinion what it should include >> and how it should look like. >> >> In any case, I see a huge value in it if the network model in YANG would >> be aligned with or is easily mapable to other models the industry is >> using currently. >> > > So let me ask the obvious two questions: > > - Given the N industry network models out there, what is fundamentally > wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network > model? > > - What is the plan to get the industry network model N+1 deployed > (when it is finally done in some m years)? I have been told that > most bigger operators have their own databases to drive the > configuration of their hardware - so who is the customer waiting for > these models to deploy them in m years? > > Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common network > model has a long history in the network management world and hence I > believe it is crucial to have good convincing answers to the above two > questions. (And I do not accept "we now do it all over in YANG" as a > convincing answer - thats too simple.) > > /js (who loves to play devils advocate once in a while) > > I have also been sceptical about this for many years. But at the same time, I keep encouraging (specifically young) engineers to try and develop such a model. Who know, that once, one (or a few of them together) succeed. That would be splendid. Of course, it is ALWAYS good to try and answer the questions you asked! Bert From dromasca@avaya.com Sun Jul 18 09:50:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4A23A6956 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.128 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.128 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.471, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31a65+26nUNT for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7153A693F for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:50:29 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,223,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="228426212" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Jul 2010 12:50:42 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,223,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="492657371" Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Jul 2010 12:50:42 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:50:20 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4C4183E4.9080107@bwijnen.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Thread-Index: AcslmbXOOl58WM+3SOiVzyOVxEiRMQA/4yBg References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net><20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> <4C4183E4.9080107@bwijnen.net> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "Juergen Schoenwaelder" Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:50:30 -0000 what Bert said.=20 Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bert (IETF) Wijnen > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 1:20 PM > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Juergen Schoenwaelder > Cc: NETCONF > Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 04:35:15PM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet=20 > (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > =20 > > =20 > >> The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. > >> Should we use something already available or do we develop it by=20 > >> ourselves? > >> It would be actually sub-optimal if it is yet another model in the=20 > >> industry. > >> > >> If we get it somewhere else we need to decide which one, since=20 > >> getting something comprehensive and translating it into YANG is=20 > >> probably not the best solution. > >> > >> May be it is better to develop our version which we can=20 > define as the=20 > >> 'IETF standard model'. > >> I at least would assume we have our own opinion what it should=20 > >> include and how it should look like. > >> > >> In any case, I see a huge value in it if the network model in YANG=20 > >> would be aligned with or is easily mapable to other models the=20 > >> industry is using currently. > >> =20 > > > > So let me ask the obvious two questions: > > > > - Given the N industry network models out there, what is=20 > fundamentally > > wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network > > model? > > > > - What is the plan to get the industry network model N+1 deployed > > (when it is finally done in some m years)? I have been told that > > most bigger operators have their own databases to drive the > > configuration of their hardware - so who is the customer=20 > waiting for > > these models to deploy them in m years? > > > > Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a=20 > common network=20 > > model has a long history in the network management world=20 > and hence I=20 > > believe it is crucial to have good convincing answers to=20 > the above two=20 > > questions. (And I do not accept "we now do it all over in=20 > YANG" as a=20 > > convincing answer - thats too simple.) > > > > /js (who loves to play devils advocate once in a while) > > > > =20 > I have also been sceptical about this for many years. > But at the same time, I keep encouraging (specifically young)=20 > engineers to try and develop such a model. Who know, that=20 > once, one (or a few of them together) succeed. That would be splendid. >=20 > Of course, it is ALWAYS good to try and answer the questions=20 > you asked! >=20 > Bert > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 From ietf@andybierman.com Sun Jul 18 10:25:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622A73A682A for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:25:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cogqho48LljD for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.14.111]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 651D73A67E7 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 61718 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2010 17:25:09 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2010 10:25:09 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: zW.B0GUVM1kwHx8DLMJxngkMicI9WtTQd4jYs5Mc8hsURgK Yef_YsIoWQCdldzp1qUK4RsZGsUcRSmQnIoaQNpIVD0u.I6b.FPNR3GCkXsP crMd52mJUA5mop8217nPso15bvfMuT098HzG4UeUIk7MyVV2zT6OpHZuefaU .nDdFoHscH8_pbJEMDWXJrXtmF5e_Zs5ueTtviFU9_PBnu5EQ7SdFvdgVWrh R8kNzyWCOopKACl8bjFOJOBTjbkhgrDIFt.X14op.DXIT5LKN9MCkv4FoUB8 J X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C4338F0.1090500@andybierman.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:25:04 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net><20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> <4C4183E4.9080107@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:25:00 -0000 On 07/18/2010 09:50 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > what Bert said. > > Dan > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bert (IETF) Wijnen >> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 1:20 PM >> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Juergen Schoenwaelder >> Cc: NETCONF >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >> >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 04:35:15PM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet >> (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >>> >>> >>>> The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. >>>> Should we use something already available or do we develop it by >>>> ourselves? >>>> It would be actually sub-optimal if it is yet another model in the >>>> industry. >>>> >>>> If we get it somewhere else we need to decide which one, since >>>> getting something comprehensive and translating it into YANG is >>>> probably not the best solution. >>>> >>>> May be it is better to develop our version which we can >> define as the >>>> 'IETF standard model'. >>>> I at least would assume we have our own opinion what it should >>>> include and how it should look like. >>>> >>>> In any case, I see a huge value in it if the network model in YANG >>>> would be aligned with or is easily mapable to other models the >>>> industry is using currently. >>>> >>> >>> So let me ask the obvious two questions: >>> >>> - Given the N industry network models out there, what is >> fundamentally >>> wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network >>> model? >>> >>> - What is the plan to get the industry network model N+1 deployed >>> (when it is finally done in some m years)? I have been told that >>> most bigger operators have their own databases to drive the >>> configuration of their hardware - so who is the customer >> waiting for >>> these models to deploy them in m years? >>> >>> Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a >> common network >>> model has a long history in the network management world >> and hence I >>> believe it is crucial to have good convincing answers to >> the above two >>> questions. (And I do not accept "we now do it all over in >> YANG" as a >>> convincing answer - thats too simple.) >>> >>> /js (who loves to play devils advocate once in a while) >>> >>> >> I have also been sceptical about this for many years. >> But at the same time, I keep encouraging (specifically young) >> engineers to try and develop such a model. Who know, that >> once, one (or a few of them together) succeed. That would be splendid. >> But are you sending them on a fool's errand? IMO, it is really clueless to develop an uber-model if it has to know about the real-world variations at the device implementation level. So the uber-modelers punt this problem to the EMS team. Supposedly, this team of engineers will provide a perfect northbound API to the uber-modelers, and deal with all the device details as well. This just moves the problem, it doesn't solve it. Unless the mapping from network to device model is algorithmic and complete, there is no real labor savings here, and therefore it won't work any better than current approaches. >> Of course, it is ALWAYS good to try and answer the questions >> you asked! >> >> Bert Andy From robert.g.cole@us.army.mil Mon Jul 19 11:29:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3773A6885 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:29:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CYUaVQOxofuo for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddcoavsgwhub006.conus.army.mil (ddcoavsgwhub006.conus.army.mil [143.85.199.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1663A682A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=us.army.mil; i=Robert.G.Cole@us.army.mil; q=dns/txt; s=conusdkim; t=1279564197; x=1311100197; h=mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date: message-id:in-reply-to:references:from:to; z=MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted- printable|Subject:=20RE:=20[Netconf]=20network-wide=20NET CONF=20(UNCLASSIFIED)|Date:=20Mon,=2019=20Jul=202010=2014 :29:51=20-0400|Message-ID:=20<4B87393F999699419C0AB9CBF80 CA3B61372CE@DDCOBE010HUB006.nae.ds.army.mil>|In-Reply-To: =20<4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com>|References:=20<4C3E 1321.5080206@andybierman.com>|From:=20"Cole,=20Robert=20G =20Dr=20CIV=20USA"=20|To:=20"A ndy=20Bierman"=20,=0D=0A=09"NETCONF "=20; bh=R5HDhZPANLmT9pUpNm4l1aWpoOCu0BKpwnSMarXgKc8=; b=hU/YA4mTbL13NR6Tx1JzhwifZNfbsSoWQ7C8neLRh4bIWuAIB/IK2uHM WKh4woUhXTpV067+p6lEyUVrfksR2v+lXQ/rz88MUKh9138SxqzQGPGhs s+Q2s1e2GTD+QUvvfKbfuChbTPv1ErL3PeJmEgpot7JDD0ADwAXHWJ8hz 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,228,1278288000"; d="scan'208";a="131812080" Received: from unknown (HELO DDCOBH011HUB002.nase.ds.army.mil) ([143.82.248.33]) by ddcoavsgwhub006.conus.army.mil with ESMTP; 19 Jul 2010 18:29:52 +0000 Received: from DDCOBH100HUB007.nasw.ds.army.mil ([143.82.246.14]) by DDCOBH011HUB002.nase.ds.army.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:29:52 -0400 Received: from DDCOBE010HUB006.nae.ds.army.mil ([143.82.246.39]) by DDCOBH100HUB007.nasw.ds.army.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:29:52 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:29:51 -0400 Message-ID: <4B87393F999699419C0AB9CBF80CA3B61372CE@DDCOBE010HUB006.nae.ds.army.mil> In-Reply-To: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF (UNCLASSIFIED) Thread-Index: AcsjjMHF6c3Dq7wQSl6ddHk8fjUZ6AD4o0tA References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> From: "Cole, Robert G Dr CIV USA" To: "Andy Bierman" , "NETCONF" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2010 18:29:52.0401 (UTC) FILETIME=[60CC4010:01CB2770] Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF (UNCLASSIFIED) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:29:44 -0000 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Andy, Please let me know if you set up a Bar Bof on this. I am interested from the perspective of measurement of network service as opposed to device performance. It would be nice if this work/approach would address this issue as well? Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:42 PM To: NETCONF Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Hi, I suspect this has already occurred to some people, but why not use XPath to solve network-wide config problems? Each server has a set of XPath variables and the client config is allowed to have XPath expressions instead of plain values: server-a var: maxmtu =3D 1500 server-b var: maxmtu =3D 9000 eth0 $maxmtu The application fills in the XPath expression value before sending this config to a server. Another option is to load the variable set into the server and make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g., leave $maxmtu in the edit-config PDU). This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some really complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF was going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands for 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) Andy _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From ietf@andybierman.com Mon Jul 19 11:42:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEB43A68D5 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFjGRvd4skg8 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.184]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCFBC3A695E for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 78464 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2010 18:42:16 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2010 11:42:15 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: aBl9OE8VM1mVG_IW7maKbANz.ytNLi6454v3_oYlxOOkE07 7QywdMufFnwAEwnRXwwskValqsLeUCLqfGdMbSYK_hE681UORxt0FZ3VOwMP 7wN27nfqaMliSMg2DX5jsVCsLVq9gGnQuuTxmAqv3RvJuTxWbbMx6M43_.03 BGa_75n3QBYiYMDOMdsoR5kuB0WDk08ApbcADD6TZ2PSrVO6LWY6qXd3aELO 3IACmgFpH5Q.LoH742rQqVyTmJuhQuPPUB4aflSK82c.gH8dj8k4tuuE4NFD oUHB9IU6JTX2PnWz4wZRuYQuGKtEPZRuoxSuA X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C449C70.8090406@andybierman.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:41:52 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Cole, Robert G Dr CIV USA" References: <4C3E1321.5080206@andybierman.com> <4B87393F999699419C0AB9CBF80CA3B61372CE@DDCOBE010HUB006.nae.ds.army.mil> In-Reply-To: <4B87393F999699419C0AB9CBF80CA3B61372CE@DDCOBE010HUB006.nae.ds.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF (UNCLASSIFIED) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:42:04 -0000 On 07/19/2010 11:29 AM, Cole, Robert G Dr CIV USA wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Andy, > > Please let me know if you set up a Bar Bof on this. I am interested > from the perspective of measurement of network service as opposed to > device performance. It would be nice if this work/approach would > address this issue as well? > OK -- the IETF has procedures for this sort of thing now, but unofficially, I think the 1740 - 1940 slot on Monday is free of OPS meetings (except OPSEC WG). IMO, we are not even ready for slides or I-Ds. Perhaps a draft and a BoF at the next IETF should be the maximum goal at this phase. > Thanks, > Bob Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Bierman > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:42 PM > To: NETCONF > Subject: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF > > Hi, > > I suspect this has already occurred to some people, > but why not use XPath to solve network-wide config > problems? > > Each server has a set of XPath variables > and the client config is allowed to have XPath expressions > instead of plain values: > > > server-a var: maxmtu = 1500 > server-b var: maxmtu = 9000 > > > > > > eth0 > $maxmtu > > > > > > The application fills in the XPath expression value > before sending this config to a server. > Another option is to load the variable set into the server and > make the server evaluate the XPath expressions (e.g., leave $maxmtu > in the edit-config PDU). > > This is a trivial example. XPath allows for some > really complex stuff, especially if we add custom functions. > > I am interested in a Bar Bof on network-wide config. > I think NETCONF should at least experiment with solutions. > Some people like Randy Bush thought this is what NETCONF > was going to solve. They think the NET in NETCONF stands > for 'Network', as advertised. (Maybe it should be called DEVCONF ;-) > > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > > > From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Mon Jul 19 13:44:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BB23A6809 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:44:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QGwU9J-z5wwA for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A283A6918 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=EEIacAVTfvyL3wHm6sSriwCHJWpScFvx2MV6ouOhVziD918p8np/a1y+or4cX5hz; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.35.227.45] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OaxCu-0007B3-Ac for netconf@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: <012d01cb2783$93b4f4a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "NETCONF" References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net><20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> <4C4183E4.9080107@bwijnen.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:46:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a91fc72053278035ec8bb3eceef0fdce51bbde7041fa6a35350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.35.227.45 Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:44:57 -0000 Hi - > From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" > To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" ; "Juergen Schoenwaelder" > Cc: "NETCONF" > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF ... > > Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common network > > model has a long history in the network management world and hence I > > believe it is crucial to have good convincing answers to the above two > > questions. (And I do not accept "we now do it all over in YANG" as a > > convincing answer - thats too simple.) > > > > /js (who loves to play devils advocate once in a while) > > > > > I have also been sceptical about this for many years. > But at the same time, I keep encouraging (specifically young) engineers > to try and develop such a model. Who know, that once, one (or a few of > them together) succeed. That would be splendid. To frame the question in terms of developing a "common network model", particularly if that is understood as the union of all of (a) networks components' configurations, is an effective way to prevent progress. IMO what is much more useful is to look at what is operationally meant by a network's configuration - the set of configured *relationships* between communicating entities. E.g. - what cable is plugged in where, what protocol parameters have to match or otherwise be systematically related (DTE/DCE) peering relationships, and so on, and to be able to represent, store, and version this information. Some of this information might be used to compute / validate portions of netconf device configurations. Some of it (like cable connections) is something few devices are able to change without human assistance, but even that information is of very high practical value. Productive work does NOT require developing some all-encompassing network "model". It requires looking at the high-impact relationships where it's worthwhile to invest in automation to ensure that the entities in the relationship reach their desired configurations, or at least permit a tech to check that stuff is set up as it should be. Randy From phil@juniper.net Mon Jul 19 14:17:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC0A3A6978 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:17:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V-x5iXiL8R-m for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65943A695E for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTETA5LuJ0opJrOioTCuKF6GyJ2YB8bac@postini.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:17:26 PDT Received: from p-emfe03-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.75) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.254.0; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:16:43 -0700 Received: from p-emlb01-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.46]) by p-emfe03-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:16:43 -0700 Received: from emailsmtp55.jnpr.net ([172.24.18.132]) by p-emlb01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:16:42 -0700 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:16:42 -0700 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id o6JLGfD63966; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6JKwKKL086591; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:58:20 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201007192058.o6JKwKKL086591@idle.juniper.net> To: Randy Presuhn In-Reply-To: <012d01cb2783$93b4f4a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:58:20 -0400 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2010 21:16:42.0062 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF054EE0:01CB2787] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:17:12 -0000 "Randy Presuhn" writes: >Productive work does NOT require developing some all-encompassing >network "model". It requires looking at the high-impact relationships where >it's worthwhile to invest in automation to ensure that the entities in the >relationship reach their desired configurations, or at least permit a tech >to check that stuff is set up as it should be. Amen. We don't need to boil the ocean to do something useful, but it does need to be network-oriented, with content that describes how the network is supposed to work. Thanks, Phil From mbj@tail-f.com Wed Jul 21 02:20:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3FB3A6905 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:20:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.836, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GoJQunBmnM0u for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0A63A6B3F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (78-70-162-131-no181.tbcn.telia.com [78.70.162.131]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2336F616007; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:21:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:21:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> References: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 7.0.50 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:20:49 -0000 Hi, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 04:35:15PM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > > > The point is which model are we going to use as THE network model. I agree with other speakers that we should not try to do the one and only uber-network model. Instead, I think we (i.e. IETF) should do concrete YANG models for our own areas. We have used OSPF as one example in the past - ideally there would be one YANG model for how to configure OSPF in devices, and one YANG model for how to configure OSPF in a network of devices. Realistically, the mapping between these models is defined in text. This would be a huge step forward compared to abstract UML models mapped to different CLI flavours. > So let me ask the obvious two questions: > > - Given the N industry network models out there, what is fundamentally > wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network > model? I assume N is > 1, and I guess that SID is one of these models. Which are the other models? As for SID, I think it is on a more abstract level than what I have in mind. In the OPS area open meeting, Nigel Davis will talk about TM Forum data models, and I know that he and Mehmet (and others) have talked about harmonizing TM forum models with IETF models. > - What is the plan to get the industry network model N+1 deployed > (when it is finally done in some m years)? I have been told that > most bigger operators have their own databases to drive the > configuration of their hardware - so who is the customer waiting for > these models to deploy them in m years? > > Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common network > model I think that SID tries to be such a model, and that is definitely NOT what I think we should do. /martin From lhotka@cesnet.cz Wed Jul 21 02:28:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF943A6B87 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:28:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.186 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xkg2jEDgYgxn for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [IPv6:2001:718:1:101::144:244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0FD3A6B7A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:28:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:7:215:60ff:fead:16dc] (missotis.lhotka.cesnet.cz [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:7:215:60ff:fead:16dc]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAA6E2CDE05B; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:28:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Phil Shafer In-Reply-To: <201007192058.o6JKwKKL086591@idle.juniper.net> References: <201007192058.o6JKwKKL086591@idle.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:28:38 +0200 Message-ID: <1279704518.24691.24.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:28:26 -0000 Phil Shafer píše v Po 19. 07. 2010 v 16:58 -0400: > "Randy Presuhn" writes: > >Productive work does NOT require developing some all-encompassing > >network "model". It requires looking at the high-impact relationships where > >it's worthwhile to invest in automation to ensure that the entities in the > >relationship reach their desired configurations, or at least permit a tech > >to check that stuff is set up as it should be. > > Amen. We don't need to boil the ocean to do something useful, but > it does need to be network-oriented, with content that describes > how the network is supposed to work. +1 Also, YANG need not necessarily be appropriate for this kind of description - things like bidirectional and multi-party links as well as parametric templates will be needed for such a description. But I am personally interested in this kind of work. Lada > > Thanks, > Phil > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From mbj@tail-f.com Wed Jul 21 02:58:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085AE3A6B91 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:58:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.627, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KD0cQ4osamzK for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E4493A6B8E for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (78-70-162-131-no181.tbcn.telia.com [78.70.162.131]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCBB7616007; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:58:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:58:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20100721.115818.210611335.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59A75@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59A75@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 7.0.50 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] comingling and other data? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:58:05 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > Is this valid: > > > ... > ... > ... > ... > Yes, both according to 4741 and 4741bis-03. > Note being returned after some 's > > > RFC 4741 has: > > > > minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/> > > > > > 4741bis-03 has: > > > > minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/> > minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/> > > > > > Should it be instead of ? This would be backwards incompatible. However, I do not know the use case for the current design. It may have been to allow warnings, but if that was the case, it is odd that you cannot send warnings and . See also the discussion starting at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netconf/current/msg03876.html. /martin From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 21 03:02:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83AD3A68AB for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:02:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.963, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HHhdc3Z9tkXI for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CC13E3A6BAC for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9574 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2010 10:02:54 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2010 03:02:54 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: x0V8iCwVM1mATJDZaRPB7NZjSulItuYmklgi3fO4xWtTrKJ k2RPH4PQpwHY8HiEROt57Obh6HnVPfcTn8EObkTIAnBitcRwgKvyxQGMdXx8 UFqUL9g59DztNVrcZMTImH.AuLUIiyqB6f0yjW25jI01HooXW5FD9bazKT2A 55nND.wxU8.CfQwOQRSz9Lf_M9zycWA8KWkrkk434aneDrgwEJXO4fhYWVAU jsNUP.Ssh04PPRv37F_JxZYmzXYcab1Njhy.W_EiWqK9pDAMIYvnQiprxY_0 te_PzwtJjwecFZNqtD2k4XrJJ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C46C5BB.1030906@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:02:35 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <201007192058.o6JKwKKL086591@idle.juniper.net> <1279704518.24691.24.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1279704518.24691.24.camel@missotis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:02:55 -0000 On 07/21/2010 02:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Phil Shafer píše v Po 19. 07. 2010 v 16:58 -0400: >> "Randy Presuhn" writes: >>> Productive work does NOT require developing some all-encompassing >>> network "model". It requires looking at the high-impact relationships where >>> it's worthwhile to invest in automation to ensure that the entities in the >>> relationship reach their desired configurations, or at least permit a tech >>> to check that stuff is set up as it should be. >> >> Amen. We don't need to boil the ocean to do something useful, but >> it does need to be network-oriented, with content that describes >> how the network is supposed to work. > This looks great on the bumper-sticker but what does it even mean? YANG is written specifically to work with NETCONF, which is intended to be implemented within a single server. So perhaps start with the 'network' YANG model for a duplex link? How does YANG model 2 ends of a link, each within a different NETCONF server? How does network-wide YANG differ from device YANG? > +1 > > Also, YANG need not necessarily be appropriate for this kind of > description - things like bidirectional and multi-party links as well as > parametric templates will be needed for such a description. > > But I am personally interested in this kind of work. > > Lada > >> >> Thanks, >> Phil Andy From bertietf@bwijnen.net Wed Jul 21 03:28:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7196A3A6B6F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:28:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.413 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.413 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.186, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id snVSEU4gGXAi for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846063A694E for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.1.102]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ObWXW-0007CI-JZ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:28:44 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=BWMACBOOK.local) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ObWXW-0003bd-Fo; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:28:38 +0200 Message-ID: <4C46CBD6.9090603@bwijnen.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:28:38 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> <20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd45ec5257e67408fc4c8f772c7b17996a7 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd45ec5257e67408fc4c8f772c7b17996a7 Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:28:32 -0000 Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >> Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common network >> model >> > > I think that SID tries to be such a model, and that is definitely NOT > what I think we should do. > > I have in the past referred to the SID as "a spaghetti bowl of spaghetti bowls" So please let us indeed not go there. Bert From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Wed Jul 21 06:23:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04DD3A6B5D for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:23:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.847, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJFKp84kjZfd for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC2A3A6B0A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594C9C000A; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:23:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36MZUM7SZUgL; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:23:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D2CC0018; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:23:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9DB4A13CE50B; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:23:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:23:27 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Message-ID: <20100721132327.GB99067@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , "mehmet.ersue@nsn.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> <20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:23:14 -0000 On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:21:02AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > I agree with other speakers that we should not try to do the one and > only uber-network model. Instead, I think we (i.e. IETF) should do > concrete YANG models for our own areas. We have used OSPF as one > example in the past - ideally there would be one YANG model for how to > configure OSPF in devices, and one YANG model for how to configure > OSPF in a network of devices. Realistically, the mapping between > these models is defined in text. This would be a huge step forward > compared to abstract UML models mapped to different CLI flavours. I understand a YANG model for devices running OSPF. I see value in a description how the OSPF device model can be used to achieve robust network-wide configuration. It still escapes me what a network wide YANG model for OSPF would be. Lets face it, the IETF is crowded by device geeks, not by people who have insights how real-world configuration databases look like and those who have insights might not be willing to share those insights for obvious business reasons. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Jul 21 07:51:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFDA3A6BD5 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:51:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.398, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MKrmf4ovUHHB for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149BE3A6BD3 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6LEpRnG004232; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:51:27 +0200 Received: from demuexc022.nsn-intra.net (demuexc022.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6LEpRct005368; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:51:27 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.103]) by demuexc022.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:51:20 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:51:19 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B9C7B9@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <4C46CBD6.9090603@bwijnen.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Thread-Index: Acsov4W6LkH1Nlh9QfChgAwKL/22GgABBe1g References: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local><20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> <4C46CBD6.9090603@bwijnen.net> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Bert (IETF) Wijnen" , "Martin Bjorklund" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2010 14:51:20.0809 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E819590:01CB28E4] Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:51:15 -0000 Hi, we for sure shouldn't develop something like SID at IETF. My original proposal was to develop a YANG model for the network we want to configure=20 since I think the network cannot be configured without an appropriate model. This does not necessarily to be a huge model trying to cover all types of networks and everything at once.=20 I think it would be worth to develop a YANG module covering the necessary configuration parameters of an IP network. Cheers, Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of ext Bert (IETF) Wijnen > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:29 PM > To: Martin Bjorklund > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF >=20 > Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > >> Perhaps I am around too long... The illusion^Hidea of a common > network > >> model > >> > > > > I think that SID tries to be such a model, and that is definitely NOT > > what I think we should do. > > > > > I have in the past referred to the SID as "a spaghetti bowl of > spaghetti > bowls" > So please let us indeed not go there. >=20 > Bert > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Jul 21 07:55:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB2C3A6BD3 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:55:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.370, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqoXq9qG9MuV for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3327B3A6B0F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6LEtjrR009912; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:45 +0200 Received: from demuexc022.nsn-intra.net (demuexc022.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6LEtiqi019562; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:45 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.103]) by demuexc022.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:44 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:43 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B9C7BF@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF Thread-Index: AcskXYB7gD+YqxI6RCyEmxHZUKTanQEb/XDQ References: <4C3F0C64.7030803@andybierman.com><80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5F600@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net><4C3F3AC4.70703@andybierman.com> <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Martin Bjorklund" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2010 14:55:44.0200 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB7FDC80:01CB28E4] Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:55:33 -0000 Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > But I need to understand the problem space a bit better. > > > It would be interesting if we can list some issues for "network > > > configuration" before we meet. > > > > > > Some clarifications and issue gathering: > > > > > > - Network Configuration associates, at least for me, with a (more > or > > > less generic) network model to be used for the configuration of the > > > network. > > > > OK -- this is one path -- giant UML models describing the whole > network > > including associations. This relies on experts to create the models > > and tools to magically generate code from the models. Neither of > > these are inexpensive. >=20 > I think that this network model should be a YANG model, probably > specified by the same people that do the device specific YANG model. > Ideally, a WG would define a device specific model (YANG) for its > protocol, a network model (YANG), and mapping rules (text) from the > network model to the device specific model. It would be interesting if the network model in YANG could be aligned=20 with other network models used in the industry. IOW it would be beneficial if other SDOs use IETF YANG modules as they are instead of incorporating the content or mapping it to their model possibly incorrectly. Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > - Given the N industry network models out there, what is fundamentally > wrong with them that the industry is in need of another network > model? I agree that there are already network models available in the=20 industry. The point is the SDOs are living in islands somehow.=20 Many companies in the industry use an information model (be it SID=20 or not) for the management of their networks and the operators are=20 interested to derive their data models (YANG modules) for device=20 management from this information model to reduce the cost for the=20 maintenance of manyfold models they develop over the time. Another approach would be if we enable YANG to use or to derive=20 from existing network models for module development. Mehmet From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 21 08:49:51 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F033A692C for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:49:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.409 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.409 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.856, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z6+4ML5E1aI0 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.185]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 75CC23A67F4 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31327 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2010 15:50:01 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2010 08:50:00 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: 20o6d1QVM1ljNjk8iwtqDshDom8z0RY.mgLqeyzpowC5Wez HPirAmrj8zyh7rsoUHSFS2BkvBtlNE5_PDoaZDaG.Q46qHQxEozderEcCFF0 o.30mCMIAIGndRxl6XgzSZLVDBWFSANijdw_leVSpAcpqIsv9er7Sd.0XNIe FxAbvdwSd6YxsIWFTn80ahmOy_2fCdEw2B6i0pyFLpITcQzCVx_dSl3l3txK 4uzJfSjxV8Z_XaqrfMu7lFmbPs1lw8lD8b.ozZHqcSlRr8nKQgo8DlwISY0W UarrI X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C471714.1030308@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:49:40 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund , "mehmet.ersue@nsn.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100715.223708.89993877.mbj@tail-f.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64B5FA33@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <20100716160414.GA16609@elstar.local> <20100721.112102.46225805.mbj@tail-f.com> <20100721132327.GB99067@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100721132327.GB99067@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Netconf] network-wide NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:49:51 -0000 On 07/21/2010 06:23 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:21:02AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> >> I agree with other speakers that we should not try to do the one and >> only uber-network model. Instead, I think we (i.e. IETF) should do >> concrete YANG models for our own areas. We have used OSPF as one >> example in the past - ideally there would be one YANG model for how to >> configure OSPF in devices, and one YANG model for how to configure >> OSPF in a network of devices. Realistically, the mapping between >> these models is defined in text. This would be a huge step forward >> compared to abstract UML models mapped to different CLI flavours. > > I understand a YANG model for devices running OSPF. I see value in a > description how the OSPF device model can be used to achieve robust > network-wide configuration. It still escapes me what a network wide > YANG model for OSPF would be. > > Lets face it, the IETF is crowded by device geeks, not by people who > have insights how real-world configuration databases look like and > those who have insights might not be willing to share those insights > for obvious business reasons. > The IETF has to produce solutions that a consensus of vendors agree to publish. A network-wide solution that only works if vendor X clients talk to vendor X servers is not that useful to an operator that wants to the ability to utilize equipment from more than 1 vendor. This is always a trade-off that vendors and operators need to manage. Deployment of consistently implemented device models seems like an extremely useful step towards network-wide standard models. Since we have not achieved that goal at all, moving up to the network-level is probably premature at this point. I am still curious about how each device knows what it is supposed to implement out of the network model. Doing this step ad-hoc by hand is what we have now. IMO a network model is not very interesting if the translation to device models is out of scope. How does an application that only knows about the network model send NETCONF operation requests to individual servers? I admit to being a device geek, because I can't figure out how the application magically makes this transformation without requiring traditional data silos and brute-force device-specific knowledge. > /js > Andy From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 21 09:50:51 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0247A3A684A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.965 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QzWW3fx9IYJg for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.14.95]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C3333A6784 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 39991 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2010 16:51:02 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2010 09:51:02 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: HijYVc0VM1m0hM5tEEPfStOvdxxXbNJW.XN0iSLMonlFe5s nr7WlWKw7ISSdqCDPmEW.xUoGUMqh8HoSAVeaGjdL2wAfOtC5lursCCPH76w I4.qpICZK9OachO6n0b.Zv52El1stQSMqDwGR9Juonl.4KTSPN8pumfh_VuD _.q1ao4YdJqTHMGOnRE9xaTlVIlT6Ij6bB8_czcfWlotpgrSZpYzMr60ZNk3 HVFJWl_CneB50tTZ79pp3bkyslAxjkUrR4FixzXzBRMMHI.1CGmYZot8LGVH H10OksBU- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:50:42 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:50:51 -0000 Hi, I wonder if the traditional device-centric approach is the best way to achieve meaningful interoperability. In the keyboard industry there is a standard called General MIDI. This is a set of requirements that include instrument to program number mappings, that all 'GM capable' vendors must support. For example, program 1 is an 'Acoustic Grand Piano' and program 2 is a 'Bright Acoustic Piano'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI Once the musician loads the GM program (think of it as a template), then vendor/device-specific mechanisms need to be used to alter that program and save it as a new program number. The standards value is in the particular template itself, and there is no attempt to standardize editing of a template. How does this relate to NETCONF? What if, instead of a bottom-up kitchen sink approach to data model design, a common-deployment-scenario approach was taken instead? This may be too difficult for router vendors to achieve because there is so much complexity, but achieving standards convergence at the leaf-level in the config database is the most difficult path, and not very realistic. An RPC operation to put service X in default profile Y is a lot easier to standardize than specifying every data node and ignoring the fact that various proprietary data nodes already exist to do the same thing. Andy From kwatsen@juniper.net Wed Jul 21 12:49:51 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC093A6B11 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:49:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fcSUnZT8yKu5 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1033A6AF3 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTEdPWme7obUH5ddLa0HmSiBR3JL6aADu@postini.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:49:54 PDT Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([::1]) with mapi; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:47:38 -0700 From: Kent Watsen To: Martin Bjorklund Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:47:36 -0700 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] commingling and other data? Thread-Index: Acsou0CB1Tx7bSbvSj6Uoj5aV3hVxAATzk3w Message-ID: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181A71@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D3F59A75@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <20100721.115818.210611335.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20100721.115818.210611335.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] commingling and other data? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:49:51 -0000 Hi Martin, > Yes, both according to 4741 and 4741bis-03. I guess I meant, does it make sense more so than syntactically valid... > This would be backwards incompatible. However, I do not know the use > case for the current design. It may have been to allow warnings, but > if that was the case, it is odd that you cannot send warnings and > . Agreed, the current 4741 design seems misguided, and I don't see how the 47= 41bis design improves this any... > See also the discussion starting at > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netconf/current/msg03876.html. Thanks for pointing out that thread, it was missing from my local folder. = Still, the thread peters-out without any resolution. In the thread, you id= entified having the come after (i.e. #4) as "not conform= ant with the XSD", and yet it's the only one that makes real-world sense (I= MO). Did anyone consider allowing to also show up after the element? - for instance: + Or is this what 4741bis is trying to allow by having the ? Thanks, Kent From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Wed Jul 21 12:57:08 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEE03A67DB for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.526, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kUW9nAKXNGn4 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2783A682A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=m5GASSOy6jGEVadRMFGQVUtWnuW/TYTne3NQNdUHRU/HuYKAwM+TPq/iAv60Wfve; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.60.26.57] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ObfPv-0001C1-65 for netconf@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:57:23 -0400 Message-ID: <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "NETCONF" References: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a91fc72053278035230cf3a55c5fa4d47005d68ee1e768b9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.60.26.57 Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:57:08 -0000 Hi - > From: "Andy Bierman" > To: "NETCONF" > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:50 AM > Subject: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF ... > What if, instead of a bottom-up kitchen sink approach to > data model design, a common-deployment-scenario approach > was taken instead? This may be too difficult for router vendors > to achieve because there is so much complexity, but > achieving standards convergence at the leaf-level in the > config database is the most difficult path, and not very realistic. > > An RPC operation to put service X in default profile Y > is a lot easier to standardize than specifying every data node > and ignoring the fact that various proprietary data nodes already > exist to do the same thing. On a related tangent.... recall that at the IAB workshop we also talked about how, for example, vendor-specific XSLT could serve to transform vendor-neutral configuration data (the content of your "profile Y") to vendor-and-device-model-specific configuration data. Randy From kwatsen@juniper.net Wed Jul 21 13:41:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDE53A6B77 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:41:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J7iKOcXVU4iN for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BA63A6B66 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTEdbiMSp4xSBZlDPxTvIUme1f6wnQJrm@postini.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:41:45 PDT Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::88f9:77fd:dfc:4d51%11]) with mapi; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:40:05 -0700 From: Kent Watsen To: Randy Presuhn , NETCONF Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:40:04 -0700 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF Thread-Index: AcspDvMl7rVbTQllQI25kf5UJp4x9gABX+Zg Message-ID: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:41:29 -0000 > On a related tangent.... recall that at the IAB workshop we also > talked about how, for example, vendor-specific XSLT could > serve to transform vendor-neutral configuration data (the content > of your "profile Y") to vendor-and-device-model-specific configuration > data. +1. This is the way to do it. Publish an abstract data-model that vendors= can then publish mappings for...or implement natively, in addition to thei= r standard data model, as it would be distinct by the abstract model's name= space... From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 21 14:17:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6CA3A6B77 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:17:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.770, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ILXmUcscfEhs for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C75A3A6B66 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 39394 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2010 21:18:01 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.8] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2010 14:18:00 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: uJ8QfMsVM1kjwoYejAvLZqsL5GT9nxgibPWG4DJg.uhqrC9 CpeeAOu9YBwifqQmTIH6GBGdt4ndrUv3peH7dwxvViXFR0nJJY_cijkZ_mUV F2MqvioPhu7jAc4aP3YSeDHiW6dp_Cagskj3_GescqKSsIEHcXo4HBUyMKOm FI61oW34inB.nYyfua8po0VHOhOclEP4rGGV8LtfZPI6EhBo0h4V.ObI1iEg 3CCD9GKjwYcKLKGaTtnE2ECmK5M1IdvcvqRYTpf7m9xGRpKg9FYWNPS9uET3 gPRQV X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C4763F2.1040808@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:17:38 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kent Watsen References: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:17:48 -0000 On 07/21/2010 01:40 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> On a related tangent.... recall that at the IAB workshop we also talked about how, for example, vendor-specific XSLT could serve to transform vendor-neutral configuration data (the content of >> your "profile Y") to vendor-and-device-model-specific configuration data. > > +1. This is the way to do it. Publish an abstract data-model that vendors can then publish mappings for...or implement natively, in addition to their standard data model, as it would be distinct > by the abstract model's namespace... > I am rather skeptical that it will be as trivial as mapping one QName to another, and converting 1 simpleType to another. This approach assumes that the data model semantics line up neatly, and the whole problem is that the application needs to know the vendor leaf that maps to each standard leaf. This ignores contextual semantics and high-level procedures, which are not likely to be the same in the std vs. vendor data model. Andy From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Wed Jul 21 15:48:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0003A680F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:48:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.121 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.121 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.478, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tL-ih5JP5M7c for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5141F3A659C for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:48:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=pBg6mLQ5cTWEPGYC2Bu8T5NdbsOVu+npym3Elj5IZZW6hp9O7aAp5pRpZath/s1v; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.60.26.57] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Obi5z-0005qz-A2 for netconf@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:48:59 -0400 Message-ID: <000601cb2927$4abaa380$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "NETCONF" References: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4C4763F2.1040808@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:51:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a91fc7205327803508da0e9239f95e75691b637451c45050350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.60.26.57 Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:48:45 -0000 Hi - > From: "Andy Bierman" > To: "Kent Watsen" > Cc: "Randy Presuhn" ; "NETCONF" > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:17 PM > Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF ... > I am rather skeptical that it will be as trivial as mapping > one QName to another, and converting 1 simpleType to another. > This approach assumes that the data model semantics line up neatly, > and the whole problem is that the application needs to > know the vendor leaf that maps to each standard leaf. I don't think anyone is claiming that it would be *that* simple. However... > This ignores contextual semantics and high-level procedures, > which are not likely to be the same in the std vs. vendor > data model. The more peculiar a vendor's/device's configuration parameters, the more work it is (whether for software or a human) to transform a network-level goal (e.g., parameters needed to interoperate over a particular link) into the peeks/pokes needed to bring that device into the desired state. There's no way around this. But a vendor should, IMO, be able to describe how to compute the device configuration parameters given the desired network characteristics. It would not surprise me if there were some device parameters that ended up being "don't cares" in some situations. The point is that rather than starting with the settings of the device, we should start with the desired charactreristics of the link, peering relationship, or network service, and look to how device settings can be computed from these. If the answer is that the device settings are not computable, then we're already done and can go home. Randy From dromasca@avaya.com Thu Jul 22 01:23:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4253A681F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.165, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kH7mX6H5t57f for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40453A69D5 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,242,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="229062018" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2010 04:24:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,242,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="484587070" Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2010 04:24:04 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:23:53 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000601cb2927$4abaa380$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF Thread-Index: AcspJuxssxlXEsL7TpKBm8RPLCxAOwAT6LbQ References: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net><4C4763F2.1040808@andybierman.com> <000601cb2927$4abaa380$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Randy Presuhn" , "NETCONF" Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:23:49 -0000 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn > The more peculiar a vendor's/device's configuration=20 > parameters, the more work it is (whether for software or a=20 > human) to transform a network-level goal (e.g., parameters=20 > needed to interoperate over a particular link) into the=20 > peeks/pokes needed to bring that device into the desired=20 > state. There's no way around this. =20 >=20 > But a vendor should, IMO, be able to describe how to compute=20 > the device configuration parameters given the desired network=20 > characteristics. > It would not surprise me if there were some device parameters=20 > that ended up being "don't cares" in some situations. >=20 Yes - I believe that this is one part of the problem that was never (AFAIK) approached in standard models, and which is based on conversions and operations that each vendor does one way or another. It's worth a try. This can lead to a programmatic description of the managed device as an execution point of a network-level configuration, much closer to the reality than the rude models we have at hand today. =20 Dan From mbj@tail-f.com Thu Jul 22 01:56:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E140F3A69DD for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:56:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.501, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id keeQfJnJ1S-c for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BD93A69EB for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (78-70-162-131-no181.tbcn.telia.com [78.70.162.131]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E87B976C03C; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:57:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:57:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20100722.105714.69728057.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <4C472562.90002@andybierman.com> <002401cb290f$509e7000$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <84600D05C20FF943918238042D7670FD36D4181B12@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 7.0.50 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] General MIDI and NETCONF X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:57:00 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > On a related tangent.... recall that at the IAB workshop we also > > talked about how, for example, vendor-specific XSLT could > > serve to transform vendor-neutral configuration data (the content > > of your "profile Y") to vendor-and-device-model-specific configuration > > data. > > +1. This is the way to do it. Publish an abstract data-model that > vendors can then publish mappings for...or implement natively, in > addition to their standard data model, as it would be distinct by the > abstract model's namespace... It is inevitable that when a new model gets standardized, some vendors will already have their own proprietary versions implemented and deployed. These vendors can of course implement the new standard data model as a mapping to their own proprietary model. But at the same time, the standard data model should be good enough for new implementations to use as-is (with their own augmentations etc as needed). And I agree with Andy; the mapping is often non-trivial. /martin From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 22 19:01:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB713A6985 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.700, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ungm5fImEVqO for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F30A33A6951 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 45057 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2010 02:01:33 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.10] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2010 19:01:33 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: QgxmgIQVM1mSPGPpJF1Gy2RK_VVY0FZegimHmN6RRqQbxwv rVAT2hi1QAk1KpM3LdTisrn5Rx0nd08_U4tCiMlvH20vLlAPCB27zk_pwISk Op3R9wk1q97HPBUCrICBpMi3KZKWa65Kr6s3Cl27LZgcW57qocC6qSxaMYGu EWQTKwO.ZtdjrWyFioxCY3Jp2cXJqhwOqlBikCqwek_a2sCRljc2jIlzIGA7 r_cQKIxRY8J4VWz763Y.8HzHHDkyjgYdau_JXOKx9lqo7rVT5NpFOZYIA0DI - X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:01:32 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100527 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF , NETMOD Working Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:01:18 -0000 Hi, I added the net-wide-config Bar BoF to the Wiki: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78 Hope everyone at the Maastricht meeting can be there. (Where 'there' is TBD -- a pub to be selected Saturday night :-) Andy From dromasca@avaya.com Fri Jul 23 00:04:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A293A6897; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jqnjxgVvPET3; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2193A68F2; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:04:55 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,246,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="229240284" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2010 03:05:13 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,246,1278302400"; d="scan'208";a="494019718" Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2010 03:05:12 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:04:54 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) Thread-Index: AcsqCv1qkQDqu2n9SNe931B2xs8KHwAKZHFQ References: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Andy Bierman" , "NETCONF" , "NETMOD Working Group" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:04:56 -0000 Well - you listed time as 17:00 - 19:30 on Monday. We have the open OPSAREA meeting runing until 17:20, and I hope that you and all or most of the potential participants in the BarBOF will attend this, especially as there are a couple of NETMOD related items on the agenda.=20 For me the time slot during the meeting times is not good as I need to cover for Ron (who cannot make the meeting in Maastricht) in OPSEC (17:40 to 19:40). Any reason for not holding the barBOF after meeting times?=20 Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 5:02 AM > To: NETCONF; NETMOD Working Group > Subject: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I added the net-wide-config Bar BoF to the Wiki: >=20 > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78 >=20 > Hope everyone at the Maastricht meeting can be there. > (Where 'there' is TBD -- a pub to be selected Saturday night :-) >=20 >=20 > Andy > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 From lhotka@cesnet.cz Fri Jul 23 02:22:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536B53A6B2D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:22:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.393 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.393 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AsswFhdhTwXt for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [IPv6:2001:718:1:101::144:244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152A93A6B29 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:7:215:60ff:fead:16dc] (missotis.lhotka.cesnet.cz [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:7:215:60ff:fead:16dc]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 137C52CDE05D; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:22:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: andyb@iwl.com In-Reply-To: <4C30BE26.9050206@iwl.com> References: <4C30BE26.9050206@iwl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Organization: CESNET Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:22:57 +0200 Message-ID: <1279876977.8510.19.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: NETCONF Subject: Re: [Netconf] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:22:44 -0000 Hi, the YANG module contains an invalid pattern in "typedef nacm-group-name": pattern "~\*[.*]"; It should probably be pattern "[^\*].*"; Other than that, I successfully translated the module to DSDL schemas and validated all the examples. Given that all names of derived types have a namespace, I think it is unnecessary to start all names with "nacm-". Lada Andy Bierman píše v Ne 04. 07. 2010 v 10:00 -0700: > Hi, > > The NACM draft is new and improved (thanks to Martin's input), > and hopefully the WG will charter this work ASAP. > We would like some time at the NETCONF meeting to discuss > the draft and maybe even proposed charter text. > I probably will not be there, so Martin will present the slides. > > > > thanks, > Andy > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:15:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model > Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund > Filename : draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt > Pages : 60 > Date : 2010-07-04 > > The standardization of network configuration interfaces for use with > the NETCONF protocol requires a structured and secure operating > environment, which promotes human usability and multi-vendor > interoperability. There is a need for standard mechanisms to > restrict NETCONF protocol access for particular users to a pre- > configured subset of all available NETCONF operations and content. > This document discusses requirements for a suitable access control > model, and provides one solution which meets these requirements. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netconf-access-control-02.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 23 05:09:38 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646403A6407 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:09:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.715 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.715 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.550, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qMF-fWC-tdE5 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 98C873A68BE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8414 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2010 12:09:53 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.10] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2010 05:09:53 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: nSAZEc8VM1nBg1JROz_soF8a8JBgTdn8OkyMQ4tdm02oZAx dYiCPm..CmPlgcJWmG9Oimjffp74_ZOp9bsmVuS5myOaZG21juD4psap1jFZ 59RBJ1EBV6ayg2_F8hfc82uUErmP0rACz4IU3hOGQhm3mxVM8wfd9msFPShZ bH75phGw.wWatdNQsGuAAtWsMVt1XGsksjB6VG6NkFovw4d45Jy9PIqxgmWU SUDS8Qz5BxmOjqNTQwhvp0.S2WMZuRxw25STEVw_xyy6ADKYtvWlsTPeXKiJ B X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C498691.6070000@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:09:53 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100527 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" References: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:09:38 -0000 On 07/23/2010 12:04 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > Well - you listed time as 17:00 - 19:30 on Monday. We have the open > OPSAREA meeting runing until 17:20, and I hope that you and all or most > of the potential participants in the BarBOF will attend this, especially > as there are a couple of NETMOD related items on the agenda. > > For me the time slot during the meeting times is not good as I need to > cover for Ron (who cannot make the meeting in Maastricht) in OPSEC > (17:40 to 19:40). Any reason for not holding the barBOF after meeting > times? oops -- my intent was to place the BoF after the break following the OPSAREA meeting. Martin had requested that Nigel be present, who could not attend later on. That is why it was 5pm. Should I change it to 17:40, 20:00, something else? > > Dan Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman >> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 5:02 AM >> To: NETCONF; NETMOD Working Group >> Subject: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) >> >> Hi, >> >> I added the net-wide-config Bar BoF to the Wiki: >> >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78 >> >> Hope everyone at the Maastricht meeting can be there. >> (Where 'there' is TBD -- a pub to be selected Saturday night :-) >> >> >> Andy >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 23 10:59:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68E7E3A69EF for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.752 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.752 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.513, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GPCVB3oXBTPj for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.184]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7407F3A676A for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 54714 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2010 17:59:31 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.10] (ietf@75.84.164.152 with plain) by smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2010 10:59:30 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: GC9Qk7IVM1kWiEQv.15nZeF2Lr1ayJ3XmfxFmUZeLSDONCe 3qOav3RcgPfG6ynO919Q92fpuzWzs5OKWXWSa3PBGTRpN.gtGxI7owkMrIXZ f5rzhf3wV5SrNJQjG0omwa2kWRYcNIz3A9dbYFwjPe3ZCzUcgNbkjmk6F.lB _KCN4o0UFFdrk3qrQOvHw_N7hQ0EreSI7UhC42Zmfub4_.1FqUx_5yZMKLcf ST4djRu_2M1klhCrXMNhXnrluoBqdnW_F7n4teL2ONpZjRheWZO9nTQGplSk - X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C49D881.4090404@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:29 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100527 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF , NETMOD Working Group References: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Netconf] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:59:18 -0000 On 07/22/2010 07:01 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > I added the net-wide-config Bar BoF to the Wiki: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78 > > Hope everyone at the Maastricht meeting can be there. > (Where 'there' is TBD -- a pub to be selected Saturday night :-) > I changed the time-slot: now 17:40 to 20:00. > Andy From ietf@andybierman.com Mon Jul 26 03:58:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BC23A6A84 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:58:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mhau1erLFAqE for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp102.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.85]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 83CD03A6AC1 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22324 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2010 10:58:52 -0000 Received: from [130.129.118.141] (ietf@130.129.118.141 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2010 03:58:52 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: IfRtACIVM1lkfBA7JdjBacVYLjJBQJjunpjpF5N_6pErDMn XOAONJ8YGuD6OocAZUOMHF5a5sBWYxoD_CbJ_P83ZpbNwpkHcejajtXt5sJ1 VZRugaPBzl9AnFsyAq8WmfCOinUGwiixVgyj1sQItvg5JX782xuo8zjsstIq nvhkk08DzV6BniFAgI44ogDEVhMoKITDfRhnMXDYDBZyGhjdrx6pXBF94ZBN pU2f9n8luLtdqWDWT4FuGoFPVLTlrHnRODXcm4Dq1hQb9Qp65XGQ8wq0lruH .Rvt8Vw_Mqqtj5g9a.A8cECwFStvU5_APMIq1D13u4rWBI0eajiPkvAtrHt6 kkm48SPqpp4kBgkysP3UfTNpNiOshQZ2nQAxdNc5l7Q-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C4D6A6B.6070406@andybierman.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:58:51 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100527 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETCONF , NETMOD Working Group References: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> <4C49D881.4090404@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C49D881.4090404@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:58:34 -0000 On 07/23/2010 10:59 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/22/2010 07:01 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I added the net-wide-config Bar BoF to the Wiki: >> >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78 >> >> Hope everyone at the Maastricht meeting can be there. >> (Where 'there' is TBD -- a pub to be selected Saturday night :-) >> > > I changed the time-slot: now 17:40 to 20:00. > The network-wide config Bar BoF will be held at the bar in the lobby of the MH Maastricht hotel from 17:40 to about 19:40. After that, some people will be going to the city center for food and more beer. > >> > > Andy Andy From root@core3.amsl.com Mon Jul 26 05:15:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id E29373A6BB4; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:15:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100726121502.E29373A6BB4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action:draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:15:03 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF. Title : Using the NETCONF Configuration Protocol over Secure Shell (SSH) Author(s) : M. Wasserman, T. Goddard Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2010-07-26 This document describes a method for invoking and running the NETCONF protocol within a Secure Shell (SSH) session as an SSH subsystem. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-07-26051415.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From mrw@lilacglade.org Mon Jul 26 05:23:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202993A6BD5 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:23:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oZVvJEZYITV for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20D43A6BCC for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.35]) by qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mbGJ1e0030ldTLk58cQG8k; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:24:16 +0000 Received: from dhcp-73e4.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.115.228]) by omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mcQ41e00A4vkKk23QcQ770; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:24:14 +0000 Message-Id: From: Margaret Wasserman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder In-Reply-To: <20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:24:02 +0200 References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net> <806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org> <20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:23:56 -0000 We discussed the NETCONF user name issue at the NETCONF meeting in Maastricht, and there was agreement within the room that the draft should state that the method to obtain the user name from the SSH server is implementation-dependent. The working group chairs will be confirming this agreement on the mailing list. In the meantime, I have just submitted a new draft that contains the following changes: (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of section 3: How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer is implementation-dependent. (2) Makes the final changes to the operation/command wording, as agreed with Martin Bjorklund and confirmed on the list. If the first change is successfully confirmed on the list, I believe this draft will be ready for submission to the IESG. Please let me know if you see any errors or omissions. Thanks. Margaret On Jul 14, 2010, at 12:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 02:06:13PM +0200, Margaret Wasserman wrote: > >> Bert passed on your e-mail below, and I am not sure what changes you >> are proposing for the SSH draft. >> >> When using SSH, the username is (implicitly or explicitly) supplied >> when the SSH client is invoked. The user name isn't derived using >> any >> algorithm, it is supplied by the client. >> >> Should I just say that? Or are you looking for some additional >> explanation? > > You may want to read about the different authentication methods SSH > supports, see also some comments recently made on the mailing list. > > Note that we are talking about the SSH _server_ - so it matters how > a user identity is communicated and authenticated to the server. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From bertietf@bwijnen.net Tue Jul 27 00:42:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6693A6AC5 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:42:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k8bAIpbetkoE for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2453A6AB6 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.1.102]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Odens-0005Tb-DZ for netconf@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:42:25 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Odens-00044t-AD for netconf@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:42:20 +0200 Message-ID: <4C4E8DDB.8070905@bwijnen.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:42:19 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: netconf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070801020406080903040608" X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4a9535d11341c842a05cdb7b53f287636 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4a9535d11341c842a05cdb7b53f287636 Subject: [Netconf] WGLC on draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:42:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070801020406080903040608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the result of our discussion of the last open issue at the IETF78. So this is a new WGLC for this document, but the specific piece to be confirmed (to make sure we have WG consensus on) is this change: We discussed the NETCONF user name issue at the NETCONF meeting in Maastricht, and there was agreement within the room that the draft should state that the method to obtain the user name from the SSH server is implementation-dependent. That change is now in the new draft. Pls review/comment/respond no later than August 6 2010 (any timezone). We know this week is IETF week, but those at the IETF in principle already agreed at the meeting. ANd the changeses are only a few lines of text. Bert and Mehmet -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action:draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:15:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: netconf@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF. Title : Using the NETCONF Configuration Protocol over Secure Shell (SSH) Author(s) : M. Wasserman, T. Goddard Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2010-07-26 This document describes a method for invoking and running the NETCONF protocol within a Secure Shell (SSH) session as an SSH subsystem. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --------------070801020406080903040608 Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-07-26051415.I-D@ietf.org> --------------070801020406080903040608 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Attached Message Part" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Attached Message Part" _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --------------070801020406080903040608-- From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Tue Jul 27 11:22:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8940A3A695E for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:22:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vn5+u8LpX82H for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587873A686E for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:22:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=cVhVEa33UZLU5ClKTHsJq2li/smDG3Gk+4Vbka/AbBjGnkfNkaTVZoil117BIOAJ; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.33.93.8] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Odonr-0001Z2-W6 for netconf@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:23:00 -0400 Message-ID: <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local><4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net><806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org><20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:25:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88829a3b650ee59d5fe93381eb79c429d7025e2b52edcfa4312350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.33.93.8 Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:22:39 -0000 Hi - > From: "Margaret Wasserman" > To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis ... > (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of > section 3: > > How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer > is implementation-dependent. I hope that this cannot be understood as meaning that the *value* extracted could also be implementation-dependent. Randy From Steve.Maxwell@jdsu.com Tue Jul 27 23:53:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6283A6853 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.563 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cO+6GDXyHvY0 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com (exprod7og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BA2A3A680E for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([209.36.247.245]) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTE/T4qI/GIl0ydqXQ3jNp69zAz8Z6eaU@postini.com; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:53:24 PDT Received: from milexhtca2.ds.jdsu.net ([10.75.2.122]) by Outbound2.jdsu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:52:59 -0700 Received: from MILEXCH2.ds.jdsu.net ([fe80::a071:342f:fdf0:bb53]) by milexhtca2.ds.jdsu.net ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:52:58 -0700 From: Steve Maxwell To: Randy Presuhn , "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:53:01 -0700 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Thread-Index: AcstuMD6oXhPFg0mThakIdWAjOuprgAaIjAg Message-ID: References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local><4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net><806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org><20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2010 06:52:59.0201 (UTC) FILETIME=[83E80310:01CB2E21] Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:53:04 -0000 I believe the discussion at the IETF working group was that the *way* or me= chansim to obtain the user name was implementation-dependent, but not the c= ontents.. Steve, -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Randy Presuhn Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:26 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Hi - > From: "Margaret Wasserman" > To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis ... > (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of =20 > section 3: >=20 > How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer > is implementation-dependent. I hope that this cannot be understood as meaning that the *value* extracted could also be implementation-dependent. Randy _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Wed Jul 28 01:21:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC13E28C106 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.464 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.464 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.785, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Lk2AeO+Nkgv for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA0928C0EE for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC22C0011; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:22:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xpuJ7Y7LBk1i; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:22:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A376C0002; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:21:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 113B213DF39B; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:21:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:21:56 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Steve Maxwell Message-ID: <20100728082156.GA58750@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Steve Maxwell , Randy Presuhn , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local> <4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net> <806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org> <20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:21:50 -0000 On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 08:53:01AM +0200, Steve Maxwell wrote: > I believe the discussion at the IETF working group was that the > *way* or mechansim to obtain the user name was > implementation-dependent, but not the contents.. I think there is general agreement that the 'how' is implementation dependent. I do not know why this is even mentioned or discussed. The discussion as far as I recall it was about the 'what' and the sense of the room was that this is implementation dependent as well. The point was made that mappings done by an SSH server of the user identity authenticated by the SSH protocol to the operating system's notion of an account name is what people / operators do expect since this is consistent with what they get when they start an interactive SSH session. If an SSH server maps the SSH user identity 'bob' to the account identity 'domain/bob', then the username used by NETCONF should be 'domain/bob' and not 'bob'. This of course means that user to group mappings in an access control model won't be portable across devices but the room felt this was less a problem than having differences between the username seem by NETCONF and interactive sessions. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 28 01:36:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D853A69B9 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:36:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zObN1BB+OWsO for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 163463A67A2 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 58046 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2010 08:34:53 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2010 01:34:53 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: A.g5v94VM1m6Qm1pKa.tl.iv_fAVdYKOVNtDTJQzDfKGlXi U3jWI_bfoUu6nHGwgxTh8HP2215QJk9EZMKvA__UDM3QVpBDwXsMbHzuAUwT 8kmmy6.7UcsGRwziwleAlklNbOLlNqIjrF8mIiKG0QnKDER.pbdknmZ2C4Oa lhD9hocZkRCP4SWckFf9sX43yr.jsnDcbFU9AOe.THtGCaTZL6HWF9BsWUqq F0s5RkbJyYDvvES0fMmtmQXRmgZIjwTCsDMzF1oqMLpvfVZsBFYUjo7bb5ey 30R7n03vsNz8h7Ub_zm0A5uCZhcFnAsFHZbFtfV25Mh6aJp4wEEqT0mMk29L EZGXWNiYaW2ykQT_xFeACRAg1b4FMkd2gQm3UjKSG_g-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C4FEBAC.3050400@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:34:52 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Maxwell References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local><4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net><806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org><20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:36:46 -0000 On 07/27/2010 11:53 PM, Steve Maxwell wrote: > I believe the discussion at the IETF working group was that the *way* or mechansim to obtain the user name was implementation-dependent, but not the contents.. > no -- the content will be different. Margaret's example of Windows inserting the default domain into the name string is 1 such case. E.g., user 'joe' in the SSH request may turn into 'mydomain/joe' by the time he NETCONF server sees it. If radius is used, the server may have no idea what username was usually used in the SSH setup. Simply declaring a server MUST know this is problematic. I doubt any implementation will go to the trouble of violating the SSH layering to determine this field. Certainly a server subsystem executable using openssh will not be able to do this. The 'transformation' (if any) will be consistent within a single server. That's the best we can do. Applications will have to deal with it. The only impact will be NACM 'group' configuration. Andy > Steve, > > -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:26 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: > [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis > > Hi - > >> From: "Margaret Wasserman" To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" Cc: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM Subject: Re: >> [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis > ... >> (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of section 3: >> >> How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer is implementation-dependent. > > I hope that this cannot be understood as meaning that the *value* extracted could also be implementation-dependent. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing > list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > From bclaise@cisco.com Wed Jul 28 03:49:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3075A28C107; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:49:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.439 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.439 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.160, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id megdmv1h-9fn; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-bru.cisco.com (weird-brew.cisco.com [144.254.15.118]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145133A6A56; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:49:52 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6SA7Uo5009576; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:07:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.89.228] (ams3-vpn-dhcp6629.cisco.com [10.61.89.228]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6SA7UE3009568; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:07:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C500162.2010706@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:07:30 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> <4C49D881.4090404@andybierman.com> <4C4D6A6B.6070406@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C4D6A6B.6070406@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:49:55 -0000 Andy, Any conclusions from this Bar BoF? Regards, Benoit. > The network-wide config Bar BoF will be held at the bar in the lobby > of the MH Maastricht hotel from 17:40 to about 19:40. > After that, some people will be going to the city center > for food and more beer. > > > >> >>> >> Andy >> > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From ietf@andybierman.com Wed Jul 28 05:56:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B8F28C178 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:56:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.967 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.967 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.632, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wsOkNUV+OO8a for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C97828C177 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22315 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2010 12:57:04 -0000 Received: from [130.129.118.141] (ietf@130.129.118.141 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2010 05:57:03 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: TaDyVKQVM1lWQRvhpBNa9bKzVdAb4wgebwHFZHF6vW8Rjya vTMdf58Nfrm2kPPcwM0qCBIJ8CotTzGz3Jq2qD7XTcfYoP_nKVp0t8ieOu_m miRxzW4Y3Kzj9LV9RzgdzgT8T5NJQTdC.yI6dhs_7u1KZAv9.2oZiLEMDrqz zG68nEJK6f5CZpTMAQgXveGMaQWc9Oklh6XDWA7xvrgj.EozW5V4.6CiOgP7 RqwL9u7Hm5s5tm9ZZs6o84A4Kbk7ZD5A9Zfkwxu18C12XhoT0BnjHwKPElpP ah90TDKl2YnJw9r.719IbCdhlnOIPqFiP.kbwWj3KLPVs71k9Drph8LHIzTF WRyoTiaBABb2DNJ9wADj0jAWAVx5KX_bkKcWnI3yAAA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C50291E.3000000@andybierman.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:57:02 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise References: <4C48F7FC.1090407@andybierman.com> <4C49D881.4090404@andybierman.com> <4C4D6A6B.6070406@andybierman.com> <4C500162.2010706@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4C500162.2010706@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NETCONF , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] Network-wide Configuration Bar BoF (M:1700-1930) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:56:46 -0000 On 07/28/2010 03:07 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Andy, > > Any conclusions from this Bar BoF? > There was an interesting discussion. This topic means different things to different people. There is some concern that leaf-level device interoperability within the NETCONF database will be difficult to achieve, due to vendor product differentiation and inherent complexity of mixing config APIs within a single server. Solution discussion summary: - use of sophisticated config mechanisms to reduce the amount of 'raw config data' that a client must understand about the servers - use of dynamic defaults - use of XPath expressions and server-specific meta-data (e.g., XPath variables) to allow the server to fill in the raw config data instead of the client - use of a network view data model to identify all the servers and the config data associated with each server. The model would focus on the inter-connections between the servers and the simplified view of the network service being managed. This is what we called a network model. - use of the TM Forum SID as the network model to manage the NETCONF servers - use of YANG as the top-level model which would integrate somehow with YANG device models; not clear if a standard algorithm for converting from network to device-level would be possible or mandatory. There was agreement that the architecture requires a 2-tier 'compiler' approach. The client should only need to understand the network model (e.g. source code) and the NETCONF server should somehow translate the content from this model to device-specific content (e.g., ASM code). It is understood that the client may lose visibility of the device-level config contents if the network model is used instead. There is also a need to tune the device-level content sometimes. A traffic shaping example was discussed. Let's say a router has 5 ways to control traffic shaping. A network model would focus on the common properties and not the details of any specific method. The client would provide the desired parameters and the server would pick 1 of its 5 methods and setup the raw device config data accordingly. But if the client wants more control than that, a mechanism to force the server to pick a specific method of the 5 would be needed. It is not clear what this solution would look like. Next steps: - Phil Shafer will publish an I-D on network-wide config soon - produce 1 or more I-Ds and either have a BoF at IETF #79 or recharter the NETMOD WG to work on this - need to setup a conference-call to discuss SIM further and possible I-D on this approach > Regards, Benoit. Andy >> The network-wide config Bar BoF will be held at the bar in the lobby >> of the MH Maastricht hotel from 17:40 to about 19:40. >> After that, some people will be going to the city center >> for food and more beer. >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>> Andy >>> >> Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> > > > From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Thu Jul 29 02:26:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D34E3A6910 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:26:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.374 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.374 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bwN9p+Y8qi+J for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189663A69D7 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6T9QMFq020991; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:26:22 +0200 Received: from demuexc023.nsn-intra.net (demuexc023.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.36]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6T9QJW2020485; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:26:21 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc023.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:25:42 +0200 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:25:40 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 Thread-Index: AcsvAALDxzyKKA9XRHChtN4LZ41qdg== From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2010 09:25:42.0450 (UTC) FILETIME=[040A9920:01CB2F00] Subject: [Netconf] Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:26:05 -0000 Dear NETCONF WG, below is a summary of the decisions and action points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78. Please send your comments to the co-chairs if there is something missing. - NETCONF 4741bis: There was a last open issue, namely if there is a malformed XML document received then session needs to be closed. The draft will go to WGLC after an update - With-defaults capability for NETCONF has done WGLC. XSD and YANG modules are valid. The document will be updated considering the comments between Bert as a shepherd on 4741bis reference, correction of Andy's mail address, using the security template for YANG modules. Bert Wijnen is going to provide the document write-up to Dan after the IETF meeting. - Using NETCONF Configuration Protocol over SSH: Agreed to have the username handling implementation-dependent. Margaret Wassermann already submitted the draft with new text. New WGLC has been started with a deadline until 8/6. After the WGLC Mehmet will provide the document write-up to Dan.=20 Not chartered items: - Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model: WG agreed to start the work with the available draft. Charter text discussed in the session and accepted.=20 - NETCONF System Monitoring: System YANG module is seen as Netconf related and WG showed interest to develope the YANG module in Netconf WG. Some clarifications are needed for the differentiation of the terms "system" and "netconf server". Chairs will prepare a charter text proposal. The charter text for ACM will be merged with the existing charter text and the new text for the system monitoring draft. After that the charter proposal will be reviewed on the maillist and by our AD and brought to IESG review. - "A Verification Procedure for Configuration Mgmt. within NETCONF" and "A Transaction Test Module for the NETCONF Verify Operation" WG had showed already some interest on this work. Bob Cole will further update the draft and bring it into discussion on the ML early before the next IETF meeting. Cheers, Bert & Mehmet From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 29 02:42:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C973A69DA for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:42:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.148 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.148 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.451, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JSyIIEW0y7x9 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E0753A69A4 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 79799 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2010 09:43:17 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2010 02:43:17 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: eon8hC4VM1nEM5NGVh4FN4mTlXMCtla5o8gJohfZkbks3Ux O8G5hf3vqx21qvsaM7m4BG8FQCH9uzbv16RpWKFFhBFlkVwthJak35K9cMON Kh72zQh6ZrB2S7VeszqEmH7XHDhytG9JkKQiFomfrFYTZsgyiov0lLveYZ7z msKdpe_KsSAtAyqTakskpVZCEv..zoNNyHBCVG1Dl6A4lB79UKpN_4dN6ZsJ 8Tjy_i00xKH9p2iH9rSBQuqbOv0D24uYHuN8XXVvBgq49Cb2e3QfbxioURKi FYxsoH0VrL_eUQOag3spvwSor9nWOd2vkPAGf961s_PvR59I3ITh2CDHJuY. fvuTGr7pQWA32wm57dstvn3Z11R0.nhtJ58kFxOxHyuHfzg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C514D33.3050205@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:43:15 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:42:58 -0000 On 07/29/2010 02:25 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > Dear NETCONF WG, > > below is a summary of the decisions and action points from the NETCONF > session at IETF 78. > Please send your comments to the co-chairs if there is something > missing. > > - NETCONF 4741bis: There was a last open issue, namely if there is a > malformed XML document received then session needs to be closed. The > draft will go to WGLC after an update I do not think this is an issue because there is a framing mechanism available (EOM in SSH, built-in to BEEP, not sure about TLS or HTTPS without BEEP). If the server loses track of the session stream so it can no longer determine where one XML message ends and another begins, then the server needs to shut down. Otherwise a garbage or unknown input results in an response, not a server shutdown. > - With-defaults capability for NETCONF has done WGLC. XSD and YANG > modules are valid. The document will be updated considering the comments > between Bert as a shepherd on 4741bis reference, correction of Andy's > mail address, using the security template for YANG modules. Bert Wijnen > is going to provide the document write-up to Dan after the IETF meeting. > > - Using NETCONF Configuration Protocol over SSH: Agreed to have the > username handling implementation-dependent. Margaret Wassermann already > submitted the draft with new text. New WGLC has been started with a > deadline until 8/6. After the WGLC Mehmet will provide the document > write-up to Dan. > > Not chartered items: > - Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model: WG agreed to > start the work with the available draft. Charter text discussed in the > session and accepted. > - NETCONF System Monitoring: System YANG module is seen as Netconf > related and WG showed interest to develope the YANG module in Netconf > WG. Some clarifications are needed for the differentiation of the terms > "system" and "netconf server". Chairs will prepare a charter text > proposal. > > The charter text for ACM will be merged with the existing charter text > and the new text for the system monitoring draft. After that the charter > proposal will be reviewed on the maillist and by our AD and brought to > IESG review. > > - "A Verification Procedure for Configuration Mgmt. within NETCONF" and > "A Transaction Test Module for the NETCONF Verify Operation" WG had > showed already some interest on this work. Bob Cole will further update > the draft and bring it into discussion on the ML early before the next > IETF meeting. > > Cheers, > Bert & Mehmet > Andy From bertietf@bwijnen.net Thu Jul 29 02:48:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA073A6898 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:48:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CkPlDgY232V4 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1342]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6853A6840 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.1.102]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OePjP-0007Ot-TS; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:48:57 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OePjP-00079z-QJ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:48:51 +0200 Message-ID: <4C514E83.1040405@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:48:51 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C514D33.3050205@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C514D33.3050205@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4cbc0f94b4552be2cfe7336bbedf6d2e3 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4cbc0f94b4552be2cfe7336bbedf6d2e3 Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:48:36 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/29/2010 02:25 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> >> below is a summary of the decisions and action points from the NETCONF >> session at IETF 78. >> Please send your comments to the co-chairs if there is something >> missing. >> >> - NETCONF 4741bis: There was a last open issue, namely if there is a >> malformed XML document received then session needs to be closed. The >> draft will go to WGLC after an update >> > > I do not think this is an issue because there is a framing > mechanism available (EOM in SSH, built-in to BEEP, not sure about TLS > or HTTPS without BEEP). > > If the server loses track of the session stream so it can no > longer determine where one XML message ends and another begins, > then the server needs to shut down. Otherwise a garbage > or unknown input results in an response, not a > server shutdown. > > > So is that not what the above text proposal for 4741bis also states? We're not too worried about the exact wording, but in the meeting we DID agree to add some text about this in the 4741bis document. You as an editor can put in text and it will get reviewed in WGLC. If you want to vet the text with the WG first, that is fine too... but then pls send proposed text asap. Bert >> - With-defaults capability for NETCONF has done WGLC. XSD and YANG >> modules are valid. The document will be updated considering the comments >> between Bert as a shepherd on 4741bis reference, correction of Andy's >> mail address, using the security template for YANG modules. Bert Wijnen >> is going to provide the document write-up to Dan after the IETF meeting. >> >> - Using NETCONF Configuration Protocol over SSH: Agreed to have the >> username handling implementation-dependent. Margaret Wassermann already >> submitted the draft with new text. New WGLC has been started with a >> deadline until 8/6. After the WGLC Mehmet will provide the document >> write-up to Dan. >> >> Not chartered items: >> - Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model: WG agreed to >> start the work with the available draft. Charter text discussed in the >> session and accepted. >> - NETCONF System Monitoring: System YANG module is seen as Netconf >> related and WG showed interest to develope the YANG module in Netconf >> WG. Some clarifications are needed for the differentiation of the terms >> "system" and "netconf server". Chairs will prepare a charter text >> proposal. >> >> The charter text for ACM will be merged with the existing charter text >> and the new text for the system monitoring draft. After that the charter >> proposal will be reviewed on the maillist and by our AD and brought to >> IESG review. >> >> - "A Verification Procedure for Configuration Mgmt. within NETCONF" and >> "A Transaction Test Module for the NETCONF Verify Operation" WG had >> showed already some interest on this work. Bob Cole will further update >> the draft and bring it into discussion on the ML early before the next >> IETF meeting. >> >> Cheers, >> Bert & Mehmet >> >> > > Andy > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 29 02:55:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E3B3A68F2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.204 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.204 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.395, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ijs-x2W4wyQp for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp105.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp105.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 947F23A68E7 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 63076 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2010 09:55:57 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp105.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2010 02:55:57 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: Yz0uOpkVM1kSGE6otcK5GbvJLb3.GgYkA8gNaZkNuhO24nq QVyh9o5.cBxF6oxFtIMPkdhu09J7plz270ehIEpU_ey62koFBnr2OyNnwq18 ygE2a_0vg5I05.pxxTfe_wfGfk1TDn_t2ZMYjtpH0F6SFuvruZapMRHKFi5L jCr7z1z5Nvr6efntivuwqgKRsRxRxwnnCxkiAntfbZmZa6CCXQ3_GEZbBnUO NuI8AEwt7W37SkOeP4JfHT8D5jV8h X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C51502C.6090106@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:55:56 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C514D33.3050205@andybierman.com> <4C514E83.1040405@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <4C514E83.1040405@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:55:43 -0000 On 07/29/2010 02:48 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On 07/29/2010 02:25 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >> >>> Dear NETCONF WG, >>> >>> below is a summary of the decisions and action points from the NETCONF >>> session at IETF 78. >>> Please send your comments to the co-chairs if there is something >>> missing. >>> >>> - NETCONF 4741bis: There was a last open issue, namely if there is a >>> malformed XML document received then session needs to be closed. The >>> draft will go to WGLC after an update >>> >> >> I do not think this is an issue because there is a framing >> mechanism available (EOM in SSH, built-in to BEEP, not sure about TLS >> or HTTPS without BEEP). >> >> If the server loses track of the session stream so it can no >> longer determine where one XML message ends and another begins, >> then the server needs to shut down. Otherwise a garbage >> or unknown input results in an response, not a >> server shutdown. >> >> >> > So is that not what the above text proposal for 4741bis also states? > We're not too worried about the exact wording, but in the meeting we DID > agree to add some > text about this in the 4741bis document. You as an editor can put in > text and it will get > reviewed in WGLC. If you want to vet the text with the WG first, that is > fine too... but then > pls send proposed text asap. > OK -- I will discuss it with Martin and Juergen and we will look at the text to see exactly where it is not specific about dropping the session when there are non-recoverable errors. I have no objections to that. I am just saying that garbage XML may be a recoverable error. > Bert Andy From bertietf@bwijnen.net Thu Jul 29 04:06:38 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6CB3A67A4 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:06:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.516 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.516 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QRrInRAjiN4a for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AD93A69C3 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeQwq-00052e-8z; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:06:56 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeQwq-0003Dh-47; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:06:48 +0200 Message-ID: <4C5160C8.5010503@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:06:48 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <4C514D33.3050205@andybierman.com> <4C514E83.1040405@bwijnen.net> <4C51502C.6090106@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C51502C.6090106@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4a6d1ae0c9fc0d6f6a9fe486a5e937433 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4a6d1ae0c9fc0d6f6a9fe486a5e937433 Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:06:38 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/29/2010 02:48 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > >> Andy Bierman wrote: >> >>> On 07/29/2010 02:25 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Dear NETCONF WG, >>>> >>>> below is a summary of the decisions and action points from the NETCONF >>>> session at IETF 78. >>>> Please send your comments to the co-chairs if there is something >>>> missing. >>>> >>>> - NETCONF 4741bis: There was a last open issue, namely if there is a >>>> malformed XML document received then session needs to be closed. The >>>> draft will go to WGLC after an update >>>> >>>> >>> I do not think this is an issue because there is a framing >>> mechanism available (EOM in SSH, built-in to BEEP, not sure about TLS >>> or HTTPS without BEEP). >>> >>> If the server loses track of the session stream so it can no >>> longer determine where one XML message ends and another begins, >>> then the server needs to shut down. Otherwise a garbage >>> or unknown input results in an response, not a >>> server shutdown. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> So is that not what the above text proposal for 4741bis also states? >> We're not too worried about the exact wording, but in the meeting we DID >> agree to add some >> text about this in the 4741bis document. You as an editor can put in >> text and it will get >> reviewed in WGLC. If you want to vet the text with the WG first, that is >> fine too... but then >> pls send proposed text asap. >> >> > > OK -- I will discuss it with Martin and Juergen and we will look > at the text to see exactly where it is not specific about dropping > the session when there are non-recoverable errors. I have no > objections to that. I am just saying that garbage XML may be > a recoverable error. > > > Great. You may want to inlude Wes as well, he actually broyught up the topic iirc. Bert From bertietf@bwijnen.net Thu Jul 29 04:42:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6599A28C177 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:42:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.525 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.525 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.074, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pnnOFTy8KIrx for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1342]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF8728C11E for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeRVy-0005XT-IC for netconf@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:43:11 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeRVy-0004xz-DY for netconf@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:43:06 +0200 Message-ID: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:43:06 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: netconf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4f6cf8ab847ea80a17574d5e25db39f41 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4f6cf8ab847ea80a17574d5e25db39f41 Subject: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:42:53 -0000 As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. I see this in our current charter: The following items have been identified as important but are currently not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work when there is community consensus to take them on: - NETCONF Notification content - Access Control requirements - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an individual document) does include some of those notifications as well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? The NACM is clearly addressing the 2nd bullet and in fact also addresses a solution. What we are really unclear of us the 3rd bullet. Does anyone still want to work on those? Or has that in fact been addressed in OPSAWG and or OPS-AREA discussion/documents? Anyway, if we want to do work on that 3rd bullet, pls send concrete proposals/ideas. Bert and Mehmet From ietf@andybierman.com Thu Jul 29 05:23:35 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8113028C1F2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:23:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8sjDuJfm81qp for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelay.hotspotsvankpn.com (mailrelay.hotspotsvankpn.com [82.94.177.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B6D28C1EF for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay.hotspotsvankpn.com (amavis-input) with ESMTP id A09F611817C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:23:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at hotspotsvankpn.com Received: from mailrelay.hotspotsvankpn.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (lnx-smtp01.hotspotsvankpn.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJoGXgAqOohy; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:23:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [212.238.36.198] (ip212-238-36-198.hotspotsvankpn.com [212.238.36.198]) by mailrelay.hotspotsvankpn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0102C118162; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C5172D9.3090505@andybierman.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:23:53 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:23:35 -0000 On 07/29/2010 04:43 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, > the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. > > I see this in our current charter: > > The following items have been identified as important but are currently > not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work > when there is community consensus to take them on: > > - NETCONF Notification content > - Access Control requirements > - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data > > > I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been > addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to > the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an > individual document) does include some of those notifications as > well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? > > The NACM is clearly addressing the 2nd bullet and in fact also > addresses a solution. > > What we are really unclear of us the 3rd bullet. > Does anyone still want to work on those? Or has that in fact been > addressed in OPSAWG and or OPS-AREA discussion/documents? > > Anyway, if we want to do work on that 3rd bullet, pls send concrete > proposals/ideas. > I would like to make it clear that NACM is a solution, not just requirements. IMO, we should start with a complete but minimalist solution. This means that it must maintain security but other features such as very-fined-grained control or fancy authentication features may be left out. > Bert and Mehmet Andy > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Thu Jul 29 10:08:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE4928C1C4 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:08:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.701, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J1teyUVaVKJn for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8968E28C0F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EA1C000C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:08:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Vmnw-RPbL4x; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:08:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8994C0006; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:08:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B06DB13EF350; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:08:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:08:39 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" Message-ID: <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" , netconf References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:08:19 -0000 On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, > the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. > > I see this in our current charter: > > The following items have been identified as important but are currently > not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work > when there is community consensus to take them on: > > - NETCONF Notification content > - Access Control requirements > - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data > > > I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been > addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to > the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an > individual document) does include some of those notifications as > well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and Dan of course. > The NACM is clearly addressing the 2nd bullet and in fact also > addresses a solution. Just doing requirements is a waste of time. > What we are really unclear of us the 3rd bullet. > Does anyone still want to work on those? Or has that in fact been > addressed in OPSAWG and or OPS-AREA discussion/documents? > > Anyway, if we want to do work on that 3rd bullet, pls send concrete > proposals/ideas. There is the SMIv2 to YANG translation which I presented at the NETMOD session in Maastricht (and more detailed in Stockholm). This mapping is addressing this third work item. I thought it makes sense to do the SMIv2 to YANG translation in NETMOD since there is really nothing affecting the protocol directly and YANG is kind of NETMOD's baby. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Thu Jul 29 10:16:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8933828C19B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:16:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.677, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XSKUqPS+tdoK for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A4F28C1D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F77C000C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:16:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q0wR9Xm8NXIB; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:16:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57089C0006; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:16:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4836013EF42F; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:16:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:16:37 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" Message-ID: <20100729171637.GE21424@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A64C22BF8@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Action Points from the NETCONF session at IETF 78 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:16:16 -0000 On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:25:40AM +0200, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > - NETCONF System Monitoring: System YANG module is seen as Netconf > related and WG showed interest to develope the YANG module in Netconf > WG. Some clarifications are needed for the differentiation of the terms > "system" and "netconf server". Chairs will prepare a charter text > proposal. I believe the NETCONF specific notifications fall into the scope of the NETCONF working group. I am much less sure about a system module. I suggest to do a netconf-notifications YANG module in the NETCONF working group (should not take much time) and to move the system module over to NETMOD so we have all the non NETCONF specific data models in one place. I believe our goal should be to declare the core NETCONF protocol done sometime in 2011 (once the access control model work is done) and then to shut down the NETCONF WG, moving the focus to data models. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From bertietf@bwijnen.net Fri Jul 30 00:22:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EE728C213 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:22:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dH7Vj8PUrykk for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB123A6A91 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oejvu-0003hb-87; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:23:12 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oejvu-0006sU-5C; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:23:06 +0200 Message-ID: <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:23:08 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" , netconf References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd429632d8e76079f94c88301f18c9d9859 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd429632d8e76079f94c88301f18c9d9859 Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:22:50 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > >> As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, >> the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. >> >> I see this in our current charter: >> >> The following items have been identified as important but are currently >> not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work >> when there is community consensus to take them on: >> >> - NETCONF Notification content >> - Access Control requirements >> - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data >> >> >> I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been >> addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to >> the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an >> individual document) does include some of those notifications as >> well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? >> > > Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the > existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system > module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and > Dan of course. > > I agree with the principle. But in Andy YANG module, there is some data nodes as well that I think are NETCONF specific. I see that the System COntainer that Andy defined could be seen as the container for the operating system. I was more seeing it as the container that contained: - the system info on which netconf is running - the start time of the netconf server. But indeed that is not so clear from the descriptions. It could also have things like a netconf-serverContainer with things like: - netconf capabilities - netconf version(s) - netconf vendorid - xxx >> The NACM is clearly addressing the 2nd bullet and in fact also >> addresses a solution. >> > > Just doing requirements is a waste of time. > > Understood, and the current NACM proposal for our charter does include that., The item above was on our current charter, and our new text (and Andy's/Martins document) address indeed requirements AND solution. ANd that does address that old point on our charter (and more). >> What we are really unclear of us the 3rd bullet. >> Does anyone still want to work on those? Or has that in fact been >> addressed in OPSAWG and or OPS-AREA discussion/documents? >> >> Anyway, if we want to do work on that 3rd bullet, pls send concrete >> proposals/ideas. >> > > There is the SMIv2 to YANG translation which I presented at the NETMOD > session in Maastricht (and more detailed in Stockholm). This mapping > is addressing this third work item. I thought it makes sense to do the > SMIv2 to YANG translation in NETMOD since there is really nothing > affecting the protocol directly and YANG is kind of NETMOD's baby. > > That would be fine with us as NETCONF chairs. I brought it up, because it was on our old/current charter and wanted to figure out if we still need to do something about that in NETCONF. We will check with Dan where he wants this work (your work may be the tsrating point) is to be done. Bert > /js > > From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Fri Jul 30 00:26:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DFD3A6A85 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:26:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.654, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zu4MD080loA1 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8833A6A6E for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110A7C0006; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:26:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2pAYzWvZgHkq; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41E4C0004; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2F92D13F095D; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:26:35 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" Message-ID: <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" , netconf References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:26:15 -0000 On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 09:23:08AM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > > > >> As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, > >> the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. > >> > >> I see this in our current charter: > >> > >> The following items have been identified as important but are currently > >> not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work > >> when there is community consensus to take them on: > >> > >> - NETCONF Notification content > >> - Access Control requirements > >> - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data > >> > >> > >> I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been > >> addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to > >> the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an > >> individual document) does include some of those notifications as > >> well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? > >> > > > > Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the > > existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system > > module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and > > Dan of course. > > > > > > I agree with the principle. > > But in Andy YANG module, there is some data nodes as well that I think > are NETCONF specific. I see that the System COntainer that Andy defined > could > be seen as the container for the operating system. > I was more seeing it as the container that contained: > - the system info on which netconf is running > - the start time of the netconf server. > But indeed that is not so clear from the descriptions. > It could also have things like a netconf-serverContainer with things like: > - netconf capabilities > - netconf version(s) > - netconf vendorid > - xxx But the netconf server container should have been part of the netconf monitoring module. I understood Andy's system objects as operating system specific object, that is the OS boot time not the NETCONF server boot time etc. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 30 01:12:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDEEA28C1BF for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:12:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.351, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XQuaf89t5uKb for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E93783A6AC6 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 93225 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2010 08:12:20 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2010 01:12:20 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: ja4IaGoVM1kgFM0YQkxflsh6Wzth5qdfTufQU7WdrVOwbcW Nj3Eoj2x7gKGgKbvpVmqS37DbRV_IY0oiogDZUlFXxlWHoeNYEz520UcDV0b tGZZlfcVAiON6makvMkigd3fxKnCVBBTWXeFYAN3z42ymi9XXJbJozSHYAx_ QRy.VVnWFJgKOgQKnvRrc8tYrIl23BsNiwkVHri97YY35qyOoVM7im7bhS0X RKrvBUjOwjxUOuJ8rv5WNau0VGHfEop3EsXMnwnXl8romnvDVGyESPgbxJlL 8lVyIwwaxUU6nmalnV2Oy7sh7FYiLv_4rj1ylOb1GLdvUTAFLqdmGqdZ29d2 nNex5AZHWsi.eZL1o3uOLyx2pJIwQmaRWeD13MTZSYHAXOBmATpIkwjzJQM6 NzSdStZR5Ev2f7AeLWFarIeHUdRz3lr17.5Pi0iMFhFJs X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:12:19 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" , netconf References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:12:21 -0000 On 07/30/2010 12:26 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 09:23:08AM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>> >>>> As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, >>>> the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. >>>> >>>> I see this in our current charter: >>>> >>>> The following items have been identified as important but are currently >>>> not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work >>>> when there is community consensus to take them on: >>>> >>>> - NETCONF Notification content >>>> - Access Control requirements >>>> - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been >>>> addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to >>>> the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an >>>> individual document) does include some of those notifications as >>>> well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? >>>> >>> >>> Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the >>> existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system >>> module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and >>> Dan of course. >>> >>> >> >> I agree with the principle. >> >> But in Andy YANG module, there is some data nodes as well that I think >> are NETCONF specific. I see that the System COntainer that Andy defined >> could >> be seen as the container for the operating system. >> I was more seeing it as the container that contained: >> - the system info on which netconf is running >> - the start time of the netconf server. >> But indeed that is not so clear from the descriptions. >> It could also have things like a netconf-serverContainer with things like: >> - netconf capabilities >> - netconf version(s) >> - netconf vendorid >> - xxx > > But the netconf server container should have been part of the netconf > monitoring module. I understood Andy's system objects as operating > system specific object, that is the OS boot time not the NETCONF > server boot time etc. > Well, if the running code (http://www.netconfcentral.org/modulereport/yuma-system) is any indication of the intent of a particular object, then: - all notifications are NETCONF server specific - sys-netconf-server-id is NETCONF specific - all other objects are based on linux system information I agree with Juergen that we should try to have strong cohesion within our YANG modules, even if that means there are more modules and the WG chartering is more complicated. Andy > /js > From Steve.Maxwell@jdsu.com Fri Jul 30 01:15:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FCB28C27C for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.822 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.822 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.777, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zTo--jhJ7n0D for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og114.obsmtp.com (exprod7og114.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CB8AE3A6AB8 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([209.36.247.244]) by exprod7ob114.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTFKKQxeRwUTy2WKDkTYIYhq5VPDvi0+X@postini.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:16:05 PDT Received: from milexhtca2.ds.jdsu.net ([10.75.2.122]) by Outbound1.jdsu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:14:58 -0700 Received: from MILEXCH2.ds.jdsu.net ([fe80::a071:342f:fdf0:bb53]) by milexhtca2.ds.jdsu.net ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:14:57 -0700 From: Steve Maxwell To: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:14:55 -0700 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Thread-Index: AcsuL8FoRu73RBEHRSWaG+VMIfVD+ABj4D5g Message-ID: References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local><4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net><806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org><20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <4C4FEBAC.3050400@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C4FEBAC.3050400@andybierman.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2010 08:14:58.0995 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D288030:01CB2FBF] Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:15:44 -0000 Thanks for the clarification... :-) Steve, -----Original Message----- From: Andy Bierman [mailto:ietf@andybierman.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:35 AM To: Steve Maxwell Cc: Randy Presuhn; netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis On 07/27/2010 11:53 PM, Steve Maxwell wrote: > I believe the discussion at the IETF working group was that the *way* or = mechansim to obtain the user name was implementation-dependent, but not the= contents.. >=20 no -- the content will be different. Margaret's example of Windows inserting the default domain into the name string is 1 such case. E.g., user 'joe' in the SSH request may turn into 'mydomain/joe' by the time he NETCONF server sees it. If radius is used, the server may have no idea what username was usually used in the SSH setup. Simply declaring a server MUST know this is problematic. I doubt any implementation will go to the trouble of violating the SSH layering to determine this field. Certainly a server subsystem executable using openssh will not be able to do this. The 'transformation' (if any) will be consistent within a single server. That's the best we can do. Applications will have to deal with it. The only impact will be NACM 'group' configuration. Andy > Steve, >=20 > -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf= -bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 = 11:26 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: > [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis >=20 > Hi - >=20 >> From: "Margaret Wasserman" To: "Juergen Schoenwaeld= er" Cc: Sent: Mon= day, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM Subject: Re: >> [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis > ... >> (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of s= ection 3: >>=20 >> How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer is = implementation-dependent. >=20 > I hope that this cannot be understood as meaning that the *value* extract= ed could also be implementation-dependent. >=20 > Randy >=20 > _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netc= onf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf ________________= _______________________________ Netconf mailing > list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 >=20 From bertietf@bwijnen.net Fri Jul 30 01:34:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C8628C249 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:34:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ibQxEKZeFRh8 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882833A6AB1 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oel2y-0006Gc-TI; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:34:34 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oel2y-0001V2-QO; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:34:28 +0200 Message-ID: <4C528E94.2090104@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:34:28 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Maxwell References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local><4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net><806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org><20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <4C4FEBAC.3050400@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd474464bd819944786619f97a765171b27 X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd474464bd819944786619f97a765171b27 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:34:16 -0000 I suggest you/we all look at and check the latest revision of the draft which was posted last monday and for which we issues a WGLC on Tuesday. If things are still unclear, pls let us know asap. Bert Steve Maxwell wrote: > Thanks for the clarification... :-) > > Steve, > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:ietf@andybierman.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:35 AM > To: Steve Maxwell > Cc: Randy Presuhn; netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis > > On 07/27/2010 11:53 PM, Steve Maxwell wrote: > >> I believe the discussion at the IETF working group was that the *way* or mechansim to obtain the user name was implementation-dependent, but not the contents.. >> >> > > no -- the content will be different. > Margaret's example of Windows inserting the default domain > into the name string is 1 such case. > > E.g., user 'joe' in the SSH request may turn into 'mydomain/joe' > by the time he NETCONF server sees it. > > If radius is used, the server may have no idea what username > was usually used in the SSH setup. > > Simply declaring a server MUST know this is problematic. > I doubt any implementation will go to the trouble of > violating the SSH layering to determine this field. > Certainly a server subsystem executable using openssh will not be able > to do this. > > The 'transformation' (if any) will be consistent within a single server. > That's the best we can do. Applications will have to deal with it. > The only impact will be NACM 'group' configuration. > > > Andy > > >> Steve, >> >> -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:26 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: >> [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis >> >> Hi - >> >> >>> From: "Margaret Wasserman" To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" Cc: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM Subject: Re: >>> [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis >>> >> ... >> >>> (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of section 3: >>> >>> How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer is implementation-dependent. >>> >> I hope that this cannot be understood as meaning that the *value* extracted could also be implementation-dependent. >> >> Randy >> >> _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing >> list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > From Steve.Maxwell@jdsu.com Fri Jul 30 01:38:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68B028C29B for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:38:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.690, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oipTlb2zSzCH for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com (exprod7og115.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.217]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7DFF928C297 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([209.36.247.245]) by exprod7ob115.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTFKPF9RKDYMdHDEoisrYb5r/tHjf7oid@postini.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:37:07 PDT Received: from milexhtca1.ds.jdsu.net ([10.75.2.121]) by Outbound2.jdsu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:36:33 -0700 Received: from MILEXCH2.ds.jdsu.net ([fe80::a071:342f:fdf0:bb53]) by milexhtca1.ds.jdsu.net ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:36:33 -0700 From: Steve Maxwell To: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:36:31 -0700 Thread-Topic: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis Thread-Index: Acsvwg1JaKFkqRe7SXWh1FMA8pBr0wAADsZg Message-ID: References: <20100706094949.GA31883@elstar.local><4C33021B.8060203@bwijnen.net><806A8BC7-70A5-4402-8FE1-E15B80CC3775@lilacglade.org><20100713221413.GA9422@elstar.local> <009b01cb2db9$27325200$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <4C4FEBAC.3050400@andybierman.com> <4C528E94.2090104@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <4C528E94.2090104@bwijnen.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2010 08:36:33.0101 (UTC) FILETIME=[508167D0:01CB2FC2] Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:38:15 -0000 Great suggestion..thanks! Steve, -----Original Message----- From: Bert (IETF) Wijnen [mailto:bertietf@bwijnen.net]=20 Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 1:34 AM To: Steve Maxwell Cc: Andy Bierman; netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis I suggest you/we all look at and check the latest revision of the draft which was posted last monday and for which we issues a WGLC on Tuesday. If things are still unclear, pls let us know asap. Bert Steve Maxwell wrote: > Thanks for the clarification... :-) > > Steve, > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:ietf@andybierman.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:35 AM > To: Steve Maxwell > Cc: Randy Presuhn; netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis > > On 07/27/2010 11:53 PM, Steve Maxwell wrote: > =20 >> I believe the discussion at the IETF working group was that the *way* or= mechansim to obtain the user name was implementation-dependent, but not th= e contents.. >> >> =20 > > no -- the content will be different. > Margaret's example of Windows inserting the default domain > into the name string is 1 such case. > > E.g., user 'joe' in the SSH request may turn into 'mydomain/joe' > by the time he NETCONF server sees it. > > If radius is used, the server may have no idea what username > was usually used in the SSH setup. > > Simply declaring a server MUST know this is problematic. > I doubt any implementation will go to the trouble of > violating the SSH layering to determine this field. > Certainly a server subsystem executable using openssh will not be able > to do this. > > The 'transformation' (if any) will be consistent within a single server. > That's the best we can do. Applications will have to deal with it. > The only impact will be NACM 'group' configuration. > > > Andy > > =20 >> Steve, >> >> -----Original Message----- From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netcon= f-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010= 11:26 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: >> [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis >> >> Hi - >> >> =20 >>> From: "Margaret Wasserman" To: "Juergen Schoenwael= der" Cc: Sent: Mo= nday, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM Subject: Re: >>> [Netconf] netconf username and 4742bis >>> =20 >> ... >> =20 >>> (1) Inserts a new paragraph between the first and second paragraphs of = section 3: >>> >>> How the NETCONF Server extracts the SSH user name from the SSH layer is= implementation-dependent. >>> =20 >> I hope that this cannot be understood as meaning that the *value* extrac= ted could also be implementation-dependent. >> >> Randy >> >> _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Net= conf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf _______________= ________________________________ Netconf mailing >> list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > =20 From bertietf@bwijnen.net Fri Jul 30 04:57:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4133A68E7 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:57:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MCCET4kerI7a for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1342]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193BB3A67AE for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeoDO-00074B-Dk; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:57:32 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeoDO-0002t0-9d; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:57:26 +0200 Message-ID: <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:57:26 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd42840ddb0a798130a746c13c49168925b X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd42840ddb0a798130a746c13c49168925b Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:57:12 -0000 Inline Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/30/2010 12:26 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 09:23:08AM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >> >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, >>>>> the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. >>>>> >>>>> I see this in our current charter: >>>>> >>>>> The following items have been identified as important but are currently >>>>> not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates for work >>>>> when there is community consensus to take them on: >>>>> >>>>> - NETCONF Notification content >>>>> - Access Control requirements >>>>> - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been >>>>> addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to >>>>> the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an >>>>> individual document) does include some of those notifications as >>>>> well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the >>>> existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system >>>> module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and >>>> Dan of course. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I agree with the principle. >>> >>> But in Andy YANG module, there is some data nodes as well that I think >>> are NETCONF specific. I see that the System COntainer that Andy defined >>> could >>> be seen as the container for the operating system. >>> I was more seeing it as the container that contained: >>> - the system info on which netconf is running >>> - the start time of the netconf server. >>> But indeed that is not so clear from the descriptions. >>> It could also have things like a netconf-serverContainer with things like: >>> - netconf capabilities >>> - netconf version(s) >>> - netconf vendorid >>> - xxx >>> >> But the netconf server container should have been part of the netconf >> monitoring module. I understood Andy's system objects as operating >> system specific object, that is the OS boot time not the NETCONF >> server boot time etc. >> >> > > Well, if the running code > (http://www.netconfcentral.org/modulereport/yuma-system) > is any indication of the intent of a particular object, then: > > - all notifications are NETCONF server specific > - sys-netconf-server-id is NETCONF specific > - all other objects are based on linux system information > > I agree with Juergen that we should try to have strong cohesion > within our YANG modules, even if that means there are more modules > and the WG chartering is more complicated. > > OK, so should we call the effort "netconf-monitoring" instead? Bert > Andy > > >> /js >> >> > > > From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 30 05:13:42 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701FD3A693F for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:13:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.283 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.316, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m8xoUEftJjUp for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C1733A6986 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9059 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2010 12:14:02 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2010 05:14:01 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: BcT97gUVM1kRHN0ScoxNKGQinuqPnWR3D0Cjp7AJimgbj1V fQXKfbJdFyd1GWbyAmpkmW1TKJRj8XSA0qzWsqKib90G63DLs0JmCujXTXjJ MDDrpQy7HR0gney_oEMyEm6D1zIcn_G68SJmlRiMPXvXxCEEx.jV8N7iuGCo DW_D9LPN1obPqMWAfsFNZnqjBDa9hzgw.xhHtj5GwuXjrlnVEYoIf4eYmr1S 3UDs3QwAO6qEOD1VW2IpXrcmXMi9dVUII.7uREf_XYTH2BDI86ciDXUzvVnl Bp.CNh6h3.xaFbuKzxqZE40MN8qjDd.ySYytQa05LEBHAIf.ZZ4bqsRHZCEK TAhp.vMgr5qvCW.v7OotbnqulyjUTEAbyYfYL9smVPMDaLt5RjHkZhGsEGB9 thtADcRvDdCz81kkgcK7Jaw1.x0UHGpUOZydrFSxpyF4Y X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:13:59 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:13:42 -0000 On 07/30/2010 04:57 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > Inline > > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On 07/30/2010 12:26 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 09:23:08AM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>> >>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, >>>>>> the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. >>>>>> >>>>>> I see this in our current charter: >>>>>> >>>>>> The following items have been identified as important but are >>>>>> currently >>>>>> not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates >>>>>> for work >>>>>> when there is community consensus to take them on: >>>>>> >>>>>> - NETCONF Notification content >>>>>> - Access Control requirements >>>>>> - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been >>>>>> addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to >>>>>> the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an >>>>>> individual document) does include some of those notifications as >>>>>> well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? >>>>>> >>>>> Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the >>>>> existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system >>>>> module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and >>>>> Dan of course. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I agree with the principle. >>>> >>>> But in Andy YANG module, there is some data nodes as well that I think >>>> are NETCONF specific. I see that the System COntainer that Andy >>>> defined could >>>> be seen as the container for the operating system. >>>> I was more seeing it as the container that contained: >>>> - the system info on which netconf is running >>>> - the start time of the netconf server. >>>> But indeed that is not so clear from the descriptions. >>>> It could also have things like a netconf-serverContainer with things >>>> like: >>>> - netconf capabilities >>>> - netconf version(s) >>>> - netconf vendorid >>>> - xxx >>>> >>> But the netconf server container should have been part of the netconf >>> monitoring module. I understood Andy's system objects as operating >>> system specific object, that is the OS boot time not the NETCONF >>> server boot time etc. >>> >>> >> >> Well, if the running code >> (http://www.netconfcentral.org/modulereport/yuma-system) >> is any indication of the intent of a particular object, then: >> >> - all notifications are NETCONF server specific >> - sys-netconf-server-id is NETCONF specific >> - all other objects are based on linux system information >> >> I agree with Juergen that we should try to have strong cohesion >> within our YANG modules, even if that means there are more modules >> and the WG chartering is more complicated. >> >> > > OK, so should we call the effort "netconf-monitoring" instead? Well that module (and charter) has already been completed, except the container is called to confuse people. (Not to be confused with container in RFC 5277 that contains the monitoring info for the supported streams.) At this point we've already done such a bad job organizing the standard data that I'm not sure we could mess it up much worse. > > Bert >> Andy >> >> >>> /js >>> Andy From bertietf@bwijnen.net Fri Jul 30 05:17:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FD63A6956 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ve4C61X5r5kt for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1342]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B753A6919 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.1.103]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeoXA-0000Fn-E7; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:17:57 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OeoXA-0003kN-9L; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:17:52 +0200 Message-ID: <4C52C2F0.1060006@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:17:52 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4f3b00f9f6c023e0928e5d78db652849c X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd4f3b00f9f6c023e0928e5d78db652849c Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:17:36 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/30/2010 04:57 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > >> Inline >> >> Andy Bierman wrote: >> >>> On 07/30/2010 12:26 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 09:23:08AM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of the action items from our meeting in Maastricht, >>>>>>> the WG chairs are working on a revised charter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see this in our current charter: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The following items have been identified as important but are >>>>>>> currently >>>>>>> not considered in scope for re-chartering and may be candidates >>>>>>> for work >>>>>>> when there is community consensus to take them on: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - NETCONF Notification content >>>>>>> - Access Control requirements >>>>>>> - NETCONF access to SMI-based MIB data >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe that the Netconf Notification content has partially been >>>>>>> addressed by the Netconf Monitoring document that we delivered to >>>>>>> the IESG. The new System Monitor draft that Andy has posted (as an >>>>>>> individual document) does include some of those notifications as >>>>>>> well. So do we consider that part of the first bullet above? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the notifications of Andy's system module seem to fall into the >>>>>> existing charter. And I would prefer to move the rest of the system >>>>>> module into NETMOD, subject to the deliberations of the WG chairs and >>>>>> Dan of course. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I agree with the principle. >>>>> >>>>> But in Andy YANG module, there is some data nodes as well that I think >>>>> are NETCONF specific. I see that the System COntainer that Andy >>>>> defined could >>>>> be seen as the container for the operating system. >>>>> I was more seeing it as the container that contained: >>>>> - the system info on which netconf is running >>>>> - the start time of the netconf server. >>>>> But indeed that is not so clear from the descriptions. >>>>> It could also have things like a netconf-serverContainer with things >>>>> like: >>>>> - netconf capabilities >>>>> - netconf version(s) >>>>> - netconf vendorid >>>>> - xxx >>>>> >>>>> >>>> But the netconf server container should have been part of the netconf >>>> monitoring module. I understood Andy's system objects as operating >>>> system specific object, that is the OS boot time not the NETCONF >>>> server boot time etc. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Well, if the running code >>> (http://www.netconfcentral.org/modulereport/yuma-system) >>> is any indication of the intent of a particular object, then: >>> >>> - all notifications are NETCONF server specific >>> - sys-netconf-server-id is NETCONF specific >>> - all other objects are based on linux system information >>> >>> I agree with Juergen that we should try to have strong cohesion >>> within our YANG modules, even if that means there are more modules >>> and the WG chartering is more complicated. >>> >>> >>> >> OK, so should we call the effort "netconf-monitoring" instead? >> > > Well that module (and charter) has already been completed, > except the container is called to confuse people. > (Not to be confused with container in RFC 5277 that > contains the monitoring info for the supported streams.) > > At this point we've already done such a bad job organizing the > standard data that I'm not sure we could mess it up much worse. > > > So maybe then we should update the existing netconf-monitoring RFC? Just checking these options. Now is the time to make the decision which path to take. Bert From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 30 05:26:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874613A67FA for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:26:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.712 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.712 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.313, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YcianSXBEHa8 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp102.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.85]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C2423A6869 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 71991 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2010 12:26:27 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2010 05:26:27 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: 9YkQQTwVM1mr.GqdC.AF9aEbFT7cp9D0O6F0hJJdTKyVG8R LRjVGynarx_jHC4eCm4NXNVaNFVsVGRyF5R95hcIDFcCl0Lvqw0nmc5uhbwc 935PLmlUyQ.bjhy6Y9qhr7MazjXKwR4KzqClo0JrmhUfMQkSiuzzEeKboR5z .HrrSOaPhEUAVWJVUgxo64Z3S.MKrfz2CYFtxWekiztCRpoj4iCtkYAWFbA9 NRUOHWODdfkX_UAvClw_71OkSqxq2qCco98DkqVoO.Q407EicVAxOqCyDpXE 17BpjFjEoks_DQ4BlvIBHoLnDEna_8xkRfJt0b4WfvJadlmi6tacmxmkDcuk mcsOPmR4l_w-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C52C4F2.2070903@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:26:26 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> <4C52C2F0.1060006@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <4C52C2F0.1060006@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:26:07 -0000 On 07/30/2010 05:17 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: .... >> > So maybe then we should update the existing netconf-monitoring RFC? > > Just checking these options. > Now is the time to make the decision which path to take. > My preference: - ietf-netconf-events.yang : contains the notifications from system.yang - ietf-system.yang : contains the data nodes from system.yang and maybe the container from nacm.yang. - ietf-netconf-nacm.yang : contains the container objects > Bert > > Andy From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Fri Jul 30 05:32:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2AF3A68E7 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.016 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.016 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dC872aL6jJk8 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1AB3A67AE for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F300C0018; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:32:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acbjafhodjGs; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:32:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97379C0006; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:32:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6DED013F1CA2; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:32:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:32:23 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20100730123223.GA24590@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" , netconf References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> <4C52C2F0.1060006@bwijnen.net> <4C52C4F2.2070903@andybierman.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C52C4F2.2070903@andybierman.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:32:04 -0000 On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 02:26:26PM +0200, Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/30/2010 05:17 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: > .... > >> > > So maybe then we should update the existing netconf-monitoring RFC? > > > > Just checking these options. > > Now is the time to make the decision which path to take. > > > > My preference: > > - ietf-netconf-events.yang : contains the notifications from system.yang Yes, perhaps ietf-netconf-notifications.yang instead of ietf-netconf-events.yang. > - ietf-system.yang : contains the data nodes from system.yang and maybe the > container from nacm.yang. I agree, with the little caveat that I would move this to NETMOD. > - ietf-netconf-nacm.yang : contains the container objects I agree. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ietf@andybierman.com Fri Jul 30 05:37:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D313A6910 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.287, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBJNP19TmAb8 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp103.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp103.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.86]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 20BF63A67FA for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 44406 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2010 12:37:27 -0000 Received: from [130.129.128.249] (ietf@130.129.128.249 with plain) by smtp103.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2010 05:37:27 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Z6xhxCCswBAlhcxjVNwaQtp4EKpLdTUUf5Nx_pGy81o- X-YMail-OSG: GKxsiGYVM1np.runcRj9EChE87av2FKmCzLyJ71pq.qUItk fJwl5rWruolgqyRyMckaSCQIaTMj1a5jYE4bzDkIretjuihUNLJ5UoX9JaGA AcaqjRjDfXGtctO2B7_HI9Tm6T7EA66leFR1Jckh8lYozdh4rwg1IVo7wCxY 1j2Ndx3m2pOGBebhnBhbsQejjD0HDdjDV3fNubK1H.adV3LTF1sJuiKTmMTu kLT9q77brp8E.lvmkFGG06ULIwcEiEIGG7WSDhFDI1p.4hXZWQx13pWwb_Vw BOsoLfTpOfm0Y6ln2dlOKBu5KPNYGRDjpDhcU55PAmuFr__53AQugnYGqSR9 LjVdLZ0FdqA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C52C786.2050102@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:37:26 -0700 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" , netconf References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> <4C52C2F0.1060006@bwijnen.net> <4C52C4F2.2070903@andybierman.com> <20100730123223.GA24590@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100730123223.GA24590@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:37:10 -0000 On 07/30/2010 05:32 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 02:26:26PM +0200, Andy Bierman wrote: >> On 07/30/2010 05:17 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >> .... >>>> >>> So maybe then we should update the existing netconf-monitoring RFC? >>> >>> Just checking these options. >>> Now is the time to make the decision which path to take. >>> >> >> My preference: >> >> - ietf-netconf-events.yang : contains the notifications from system.yang > > Yes, perhaps ietf-netconf-notifications.yang instead of > ietf-netconf-events.yang. > OK >> - ietf-system.yang : contains the data nodes from system.yang and maybe the >> container from nacm.yang. > > I agree, with the little caveat that I would move this to NETMOD. > OK >> - ietf-netconf-nacm.yang : contains the container objects > > I agree. > Is this agreement thing a trend (5 times in a year! :-) > /js > Andy From bertietf@bwijnen.net Fri Jul 30 06:59:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA813A68DE for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:59:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.550, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zvhVW+cDcsJO for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:610:240:11::c100:1341]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8582E3A67D0 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.1.102]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oeq7n-0004QU-Vr; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:59:53 +0200 Received: from vifa-1.office-lb-1.ripe.net ([193.0.1.5] helo=dhcp-60fe.meeting.ietf.org) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oeq7n-0000yV-Rl; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:59:47 +0200 Message-ID: <4C52DAD3.7030801@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:59:47 +0200 From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <4C51694A.7010408@bwijnen.net> <20100729170839.GD21424@elstar.local> <4C527DDC.40005@bwijnen.net> <20100730072635.GA23477@elstar.local> <4C528963.9000203@andybierman.com> <4C52BE26.6020808@bwijnen.net> <4C52C207.5020400@andybierman.com> <4C52C2F0.1060006@bwijnen.net> <4C52C4F2.2070903@andybierman.com> <20100730123223.GA24590@elstar.local> <4C52C786.2050102@andybierman.com> In-Reply-To: <4C52C786.2050102@andybierman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd466f9ff2ac4c2241ce8b22e5b4fc6d70f X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 86ab03e524994f79ca2c75a176445dd466f9ff2ac4c2241ce8b22e5b4fc6d70f Cc: netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] new WG charter X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:59:31 -0000 To celebrate that Andy and Juergen agreed 5 times this year, may I suggest then this text (to cover the work item of Andy's system-monitoring draft) 4. The NETCONF protocol and the netconf server may want to allow a client to check the status at the server end. In addition, the server may want to notify interested clients about particular NETCONF protocol/server events. The WG will work on a NETCONF specific YANG module to address this requirement. It is specific for NETCONF protocol and server information. Bert Andy Bierman wrote: > On 07/30/2010 05:32 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 02:26:26PM +0200, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >>> On 07/30/2010 05:17 AM, Bert (IETF) Wijnen wrote: >>> .... >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> So maybe then we should update the existing netconf-monitoring RFC? >>>> >>>> Just checking these options. >>>> Now is the time to make the decision which path to take. >>>> >>>> >>> My preference: >>> >>> - ietf-netconf-events.yang : contains the notifications from system.yang >>> >> Yes, perhaps ietf-netconf-notifications.yang instead of >> ietf-netconf-events.yang. >> >> > > OK > > >>> - ietf-system.yang : contains the data nodes from system.yang and maybe the >>> container from nacm.yang. >>> >> I agree, with the little caveat that I would move this to NETMOD. >> >> > > OK > > > >>> - ietf-netconf-nacm.yang : contains the container objects >>> >> I agree. >> >> > > Is this agreement thing a trend (5 times in a year! :-) > > >> /js >> >> > > > Andy > > From ietfc@btconnect.com Fri Jul 30 08:29:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C6C3A69C9 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:29:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.690, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Xsn9HW-PQeT for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c2beaomr04.btconnect.com (c2beaomr04.btconnect.com [213.123.26.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F923A68B1 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc6 (host81-156-71-186.range81-156.btcentralplus.com [81.156.71.186]) by c2beaomr04.btconnect.com with SMTP id CHU45911; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:29:04 +0100 (BST) X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Fair-1, source=Queried, refid=0001.0A0B0302.4C52EFC0.0259, actions=tag Message-ID: <001d01cb2ff3$0080f1c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "t.petch" To: "Bert \(IETF\) Wijnen" , "netconf" References: <4C4E8DDB.8070905@bwijnen.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:15:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=c2beaomr04.btconnect.com X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A0B020A.4C52EFDC.0005,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2009-07-20 21:54:04, dmn=5.7.1/2009-08-27, mode=single engine X-Junkmail-IWF: false Subject: Re: [Netconf] WGLC on draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:29:31 -0000 No problem with what I think it means, but would suggest /extracts/obtains/ I would extract from a PDU, obtain from a layer. I did think twice about layer, but that is right, as described in RFC4741. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" To: "netconf" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:42 AM Subject: [Netconf] WGLC on draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt > This is the result of our discussion of the last open > issue at the IETF78. So this is a new WGLC for this > document, but the specific piece to be confirmed > (to make sure we have WG consensus on) is this change: > > We discussed the NETCONF user name issue at the NETCONF meeting > in Maastricht, and there was agreement within the room that the > draft > should state that the method to obtain the user name from the SSH > server is implementation-dependent. > > That change is now in the new draft. > > Pls review/comment/respond no later than August 6 2010 > (any timezone). We know this week is IETF week, but those > at the IETF in principle already agreed at the meeting. > ANd the changeses are only a few lines of text. > > Bert and Mehmet > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action:draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:15:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > CC: netconf@ietf.org > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF. > > > Title : Using the NETCONF Configuration Protocol over Secure Shell (SSH) > Author(s) : M. Wasserman, T. Goddard > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt > Pages : 10 > Date : 2010-07-26 > > This document describes a method for invoking and running the NETCONF > protocol within a Secure Shell (SSH) session as an SSH subsystem. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc4742bis-02.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >