
From nobody Mon Dec  1 01:06:20 2014
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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 10:06:13 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf notifications - SSE vs HTTP 2.0 push
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On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 04:53:22AM +0000, Reinaldo Penno (repenno) wrote:
> I think it will be a loooong time before HTTP 2.0 find its way into all
> browsers, Java/Python/C/other libraries and servers into significant
> numbers. The installed base is just too large. We should focus on what we
> can deploy with HTTP 1.1.

I expected this argument but I am not sure to what extend I believe it
to be true. My understanding is that most browsers already today use
SPDY and I can run SPDY in major web servers as well and my
understanding is that HTTP 2.0 is heavily influenced by SPDY. We may
be creating an SSE solution today and we may regret that decision in a
two years. At least, I think we should leave things open such that
usage of HTTP 2.0 push is possible to support without major hassles.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: [Netconf] NETCONF WG Virtual Interim Meetings December 15, 2014, and bi-weekly starting January 5, 2015
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The NETCONF WG will hold a series of virtual interim meetings beginning Monday, December 15, 2014.

Meeting day: Mondays
Time: 1800 CET
Duration: 2 hours

Dates: December 15, 2014 1-time
and starting with: January 5, 2015 bi-weekly
End date: March 16, 2015

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From nobody Fri Dec  5 14:55:39 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : NETCONF Call Home and RESTCONF Call Home
        Author          : Kent Watsen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2014-12-05

Abstract:
   This document presents NETCONF Call Home and RESTCONF Call Home,
   which respectively enable a NETCONF/RESTCONF server to initiate a
   secure connection to a NETCONF/RESTCONF client.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-call-home/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Dec  5 15:05:51 2014
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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
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Thread-Topic: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02.txt
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02.txt
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Dear NETCONF WG,

This update to the call home draft primarily adds support for RESTCONF
Call Home, per WG consensus from the IETF 91 meeting.

This version of the draft is the first candidate for last call.  My only
comments are:

1. The draft seems very busy now with all the "NETCONF/RESTCONF" and
"SSH/TLS" switches, but I'm unsure how to make it any easier to read.
Suggestions would be very welcome!

2. Does there need to be special comments for the editor to replace
temporary strings like "XXXX" and "PORT-X" to the IANA-assigned values?
Is there a reference that explains how that is suppose to be done?


Thanks,
Kent




On 12/5/14, 5:55 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
wrote:

>
>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of
>the IETF.
>
>        Title           : NETCONF Call Home and RESTCONF Call Home
>        Author          : Kent Watsen
>	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02.txt
>	Pages           : 11
>	Date            : 2014-12-05
>
>Abstract:
>   This document presents NETCONF Call Home and RESTCONF Call Home,
>   which respectively enable a NETCONF/RESTCONF server to initiate a
>   secure connection to a NETCONF/RESTCONF client.
>
>
>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-call-home/
>
>There's also a htmlized version available at:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02
>
>A diff from the previous version is available at:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-call-home-02
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Sun Dec  7 08:32:26 2014
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Cc: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
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All,

if there is no objection within a few days we are going to implement issue =
#2 as discussed and summarized below.

BR,=20
Mehmet=20


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Andy Bie=
rman
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:13 PM
> To: Kent Watsen
> Cc: Netconf
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> There doesn't seem to be much interest in this issue.
> The original WG decision is to just define a "restconf-tls"
> identity for the session "transport" leaf.
>=20
> IMO the original consensus of "punt this until later" is confirmed.
> That would be solution S1.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Andy
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
> >
> >>The original task was simply to identify SSE sessions because
> >>these are the only long-lived RESTCONF "sessions".
> >
> > Tracking just SSE sessions is so non-intuitive and somewhat pointless.
> > What people want is some means to be aware of all the different "sessio=
ns"
> > going on, not just the never-ending responses.  I know we're struggling
> > with the stateless-server constraint, but the articles I linked before =
are
> > pretty pragmatic.
> >
> >
> >
> >>We currently store all RESTCONF sessions in the session list,
> >>because the server instrumentation can block, so even a 1 request
> >>session can be a long-lived session.  In the multi-threaded build,
> >>other sessions will still be running, and the RESTCONF session
> >>will be visible.
> >
> > You mean that each REST API entry point is something like this:
> >
> >     Foobar() {
> >       session_id =3D start_session();
> >
> >       // do bis logic here
> >
> >       close_session(session_id);
> >       return HTTP_response;
> >     }
> >
> > So even short-lived responses show up as a session temporarily?
> >
> >
> >
> >>IMO it is OK if a server treats 1 request as a session or N requests
> >>as a session, so picking S2 is good enough.
> >
> > Assuming cookies are needed to track sessions correctly, there would be=
 a
> > requirement for clients to implement the "Set-Cookie" and "Cookie" head=
er
> > fields from RFC 6265.   Can we at least say that servers MAY use cookie=
s?
> > (i.e. clients MUST support)
> >
> >
> > Having been thru a Common Criteria certification before, I'm painfully
> > aware that every login and logout event needs to be logged, in addition=
 to
> > the actions performed.   Without some form of a session, my understandi=
ng
> > is that BasicAuth leads to 2/3-rds of the audit log being "login" and
> > "logout" events, which doesn't match common expectations.  Others must
> > have experience with this, should we ask the Apps folks for advice?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Sun Dec  7 09:11:53 2014
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
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Cc: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
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Hi,

So that is solution S1.
We will just define the restconf-tls identity and say
in the draft that there is no standard RESTCONF session monitoring
and the identity is defined for future use.


Andy


On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)
<mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> if there is no objection within a few days we are going to implement issue #2 as discussed and summarized below.
>
> BR,
> Mehmet
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Andy Bierman
>> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:13 PM
>> To: Kent Watsen
>> Cc: Netconf
>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> There doesn't seem to be much interest in this issue.
>> The original WG decision is to just define a "restconf-tls"
>> identity for the session "transport" leaf.
>>
>> IMO the original consensus of "punt this until later" is confirmed.
>> That would be solution S1.
>>
>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>The original task was simply to identify SSE sessions because
>> >>these are the only long-lived RESTCONF "sessions".
>> >
>> > Tracking just SSE sessions is so non-intuitive and somewhat pointless.
>> > What people want is some means to be aware of all the different "sessions"
>> > going on, not just the never-ending responses.  I know we're struggling
>> > with the stateless-server constraint, but the articles I linked before are
>> > pretty pragmatic.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>We currently store all RESTCONF sessions in the session list,
>> >>because the server instrumentation can block, so even a 1 request
>> >>session can be a long-lived session.  In the multi-threaded build,
>> >>other sessions will still be running, and the RESTCONF session
>> >>will be visible.
>> >
>> > You mean that each REST API entry point is something like this:
>> >
>> >     Foobar() {
>> >       session_id = start_session();
>> >
>> >       // do bis logic here
>> >
>> >       close_session(session_id);
>> >       return HTTP_response;
>> >     }
>> >
>> > So even short-lived responses show up as a session temporarily?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>IMO it is OK if a server treats 1 request as a session or N requests
>> >>as a session, so picking S2 is good enough.
>> >
>> > Assuming cookies are needed to track sessions correctly, there would be a
>> > requirement for clients to implement the "Set-Cookie" and "Cookie" header
>> > fields from RFC 6265.   Can we at least say that servers MAY use cookies?
>> > (i.e. clients MUST support)
>> >
>> >
>> > Having been thru a Common Criteria certification before, I'm painfully
>> > aware that every login and logout event needs to be logged, in addition to
>> > the actions performed.   Without some form of a session, my understanding
>> > is that BasicAuth leads to 2/3-rds of the audit log being "login" and
>> > "logout" events, which doesn't match common expectations.  Others must
>> > have experience with this, should we ask the Apps folks for advice?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Kent
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netconf mailing list
>> Netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Sun Dec  7 09:16:43 2014
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
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On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> So that is solution S1.
> We will just define the restconf-tls identity and say
> in the draft that there is no standard RESTCONF session monitoring
> and the identity is defined for future use.
>


This creates a normative reference to NETCONF Monitoring for no reason.
So I am proposing S0 -- do not have anything in the RESTCONF draft
about session monitoring, and do not define the restconf-tls identity
until it is needed in a standard YANG module.

If there are no comments, then S1 is still the default solution.
IMO there is no standards value in S1 but its cost is also low.



>
> Andy

Andy

>
>
> On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)
> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> if there is no objection within a few days we are going to implement issue #2 as discussed and summarized below.
>>
>> BR,
>> Mehmet
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Andy Bierman
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:13 PM
>>> To: Kent Watsen
>>> Cc: Netconf
>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> There doesn't seem to be much interest in this issue.
>>> The original WG decision is to just define a "restconf-tls"
>>> identity for the session "transport" leaf.
>>>
>>> IMO the original consensus of "punt this until later" is confirmed.
>>> That would be solution S1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>The original task was simply to identify SSE sessions because
>>> >>these are the only long-lived RESTCONF "sessions".
>>> >
>>> > Tracking just SSE sessions is so non-intuitive and somewhat pointless.
>>> > What people want is some means to be aware of all the different "sessions"
>>> > going on, not just the never-ending responses.  I know we're struggling
>>> > with the stateless-server constraint, but the articles I linked before are
>>> > pretty pragmatic.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>We currently store all RESTCONF sessions in the session list,
>>> >>because the server instrumentation can block, so even a 1 request
>>> >>session can be a long-lived session.  In the multi-threaded build,
>>> >>other sessions will still be running, and the RESTCONF session
>>> >>will be visible.
>>> >
>>> > You mean that each REST API entry point is something like this:
>>> >
>>> >     Foobar() {
>>> >       session_id = start_session();
>>> >
>>> >       // do bis logic here
>>> >
>>> >       close_session(session_id);
>>> >       return HTTP_response;
>>> >     }
>>> >
>>> > So even short-lived responses show up as a session temporarily?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>IMO it is OK if a server treats 1 request as a session or N requests
>>> >>as a session, so picking S2 is good enough.
>>> >
>>> > Assuming cookies are needed to track sessions correctly, there would be a
>>> > requirement for clients to implement the "Set-Cookie" and "Cookie" header
>>> > fields from RFC 6265.   Can we at least say that servers MAY use cookies?
>>> > (i.e. clients MUST support)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Having been thru a Common Criteria certification before, I'm painfully
>>> > aware that every login and logout event needs to be logged, in addition to
>>> > the actions performed.   Without some form of a session, my understanding
>>> > is that BasicAuth leads to 2/3-rds of the audit log being "login" and
>>> > "logout" events, which doesn't match common expectations.  Others must
>>> > have experience with this, should we ask the Apps folks for advice?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Kent
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netconf mailing list
>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Sun Dec  7 09:58:47 2014
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
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Subject: [Netconf] RESTCONF #4: defaults handling
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Hi,

This is the proposal for draft-04 for defaults handling.
The text is in the github version of the draft.

1) server MUST include the "defaults" protocol capability in
the "capability" list with parameter "basic-mode" set.
Example:

    urn:ietf:params:restconf:capability:defaults:1.0?basic-mode=explicit


2) server MAY support the "with-defaults" query parameter
(works the same as <with-defaults> parameter for get or get-config)



Andy


From nobody Sun Dec  7 11:18:31 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01
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I have not been active previously in this working group and so I might
lack some context. Nevertheless, I have read through
<draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01> and have a few questions.

I would like to focus my comments on the first figure in the document:

                                  fetches Configlet and
                    +----------+  boot-image, if needed
       +------------|  Device  |---------------------+
       |            +----------+                     |
       |                 ^                           |
       |                 |                           V
       | call home       | manufactures         +----------+
       |                 | with necessary       |  Config  |
       |                 | default state        |  Server  |<----+
       |                 | for ZeroTouch        +----------+     |
       |                 |                                       |
       |                 |                                       |
       |            +----------+  delegates trust                |
       |            |  Vendor  |-------------------+             |
       |            +----------+                   |             |
       |               ^    ^                      |             |
       |               |    |                      V             |
       |               |    |                 +----------+       |
       |       imports |    | validate owner  |  Config  |       |
       |         trust |    +-----------------|  Signer  |       |
       |        anchor |                      +----------+       |
       |               |                           ^             |
       |               |                           |             |
       |            +---------+  requests signing  |             |
       +----------->|   NMS   |--------------------+             |
                    +---------+                                  |
                        |                                        |
                        +----------------------------------------+
                          signed Configlet and boot-image file


1) I would like to point out that the figure uses the same style for
drawing protocol endpoints and real-world entities. Maybe that was done
on purpose; maybe not.

2) The description in the document is not clear when it comes to the
information that is pre-configured on the device.

Here are two statements from the draft:

         The device
         is preconfigured with a secure device identity, Configuration
         Servers URIs, and certificates for both Configuration Signers
         and Configuration Servers it trusts by default.

         Vendors manufacture the devices with secure device identities
         and preconfigured Configuration URIs, and Configuration Signer
         certificates.

Is a device now preconfigured with the certificates of the config signer
and the configuration server?

Figure 1 puts them in some dependency to each other so it is not clear
which certificate is actually needed. Maybe we are really talking about
trust anchors?

3) When I read "secure device identity" I wasn't quite sure what that
would actually mean till I read this sentence later in the document.

"  Devices supporting ZeroTouch MUST have a manufacturer-provisioned
   secure device identifier, as defined in [Std-802.1AR-2009].
"

Another way to put it is that the device is configured by the
manufacturer with a certificate and the corresponding private key. The
certificate has the structure defined in [Std-802.1AR-2009].

A related question concerning figure 1 would then be whether the
"vendor" is the same as the manufacturer or not.

Then you write:

"
   The IDevID includes both an X.509 certificate,
   encoding a globally unique per-device identifier, and a chain of
   X.509 certificates leading to the manufacturer's well-known trust
   anchor.
"

Is this CA hierarchy needed to support the functionality for "delegating
trust to the "config signer" as shown in Figure 1?

This sentence sounds to me like the device has
* the CA cert of the manufacturer (which is the trust anchor),
* the certificate issued to the device from some intermediate CA, and
* a certificate chain that allows path validation of the device
certificate to the manufacturer CA.

4) Internet-based Configuration Servers =3D NMS?

In Figure 1 you use the term "NMS" and later in the text you talk about
the Internet-based Configuration Servers or Configuration Servers. Are
these all the same entities or different entities?

Ciao
Hannes


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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: "t. petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] 5539bis was Re: Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF #91
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On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:31:15AM +0000, t. petch wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
> To: "ext Benoit Claise" <bclaise@cisco.com>; "netconf"
> <netconf@ietf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:07 AM
> Subject: [Netconf] Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF
> #91
> 
> 
> > Hi Benoit, NETCONF WG,
> >
> > below is a summary and action items from the NETCONF WG session on
> November 11, 2014, Honolulu, Hawaii.
> > A short version of this summary will be made available at OPS area
> Wiki soon (at
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/ops/trac/wiki/IETF91summary).
> >
> > - We had approx. 85+ participants in the 2 hour NETCONF session,
> > - We reviewed the status of the WG,
> > - We had a discussion on all 6 chartered documents.
> > - Note takers were: Lada Lhotka and Balazs Lengyel. The Jabber scribe
> was Rolf Winter.
> > Many thanks to the note takers and jabber scribe for volunteering.
> >
> > The session agenda is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netconf
> > NETCONF co-chairs will ask for a room for 100 for the next meeting.
> >
> > Following are the decisions taken per humming in the NETCONF session.
> > If there is no strong objection we will implement as proposed.
> >
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >
> > Focus on the use of X.509 for TLS (rfc5539bis)
> >    - supported by a large humm
> 
> 
> A clarification - does this mean that we re-title rfc5539bis as being
> only about the use of TLS leaving those wanting other forms of security
> to write their own I-Ds?
>

This document has _always_ been about TLS. I think you proposed to
narrow it down to TLS with mutual X.509 certification and this is what
the hum was about.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] username from X.503 was Re: Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF #91
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On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:34:15AM +0000, t. petch wrote:
> 
> >
> > Following are the decisions taken per humming in the NETCONF session.
> > If there is no strong objection we will implement as proposed.
> >
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> > Describe algorithm for extracting a user name out of the X509
> attributes
> >    - loud humm in favor
> >
> 
> A clarification - does this mean that this algorithm goes in
> netconf-server?
>

The idea (as far as I understood it) is that NC over TLS provides a
high-level description of the algorithm. The NC server configuration
document will define the YANG objects to configure this.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "t. petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] username from X.503 was Re: Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF #91
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] username from X.503 was Re: Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF #91
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>>=20
>>=20
>> > Describe algorithm for extracting a user name out of the X509
>> attributes
>> >    - loud humm in favor
>> >
>>=20
>> A clarification - does this mean that this algorithm goes in
>> netconf-server?
>>
>
>The idea (as far as I understood it) is that NC over TLS provides a
>high-level description of the algorithm. The NC server configuration
>document will define the YANG objects to configure this.


I didn't articulate clearly enough at the mic about the "what" and
"how", but Juergen agreed so I'm sure not that he's a mindreader  ;)

Anyway, in reflecting on this, I realized what I should've said
is that it should be whatever is needed so that 5539bis has an
Informative (not Normative) reference to server-model.   Again,
this is the necessary because alternate configuration models can
exist, thus it doesn't make sense to me for 5539bis to say that
it can *only* be configured by just the server-model.

My hope is that 5539bis will assert that client-certs are required
and specify that servers must be configurable to know how to extract
a username using the various options (specified, subAltName, DNS,
etc.).   Another option is for 5539bis to have a Normative reference
onto draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg, section 4.1, though that may be too
convoluted for some.

Kent



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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01
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Hi Hannes!

Thank you for showing interest in this draft, it's great to get your
security perspective on it.



>I would like to focus my comments on the first figure in the document:
>
>                                  fetches Configlet and
>                    +----------+  boot-image, if needed
>       +------------|  Device  |---------------------+
>       |            +----------+                     |
>       |                 ^                           |
>       |                 |                           V
>       | call home       | manufactures         +----------+
>       |                 | with necessary       |  Config  |
>       |                 | default state        |  Server  |<----+
>       |                 | for ZeroTouch        +----------+     |
>       |                 |                                       |
>       |                 |                                       |
>       |            +----------+  delegates trust                |
>       |            |  Vendor  |-------------------+             |
>       |            +----------+                   |             |
>       |               ^    ^                      |             |
>       |               |    |                      V             |
>       |               |    |                 +----------+       |
>       |       imports |    | validate owner  |  Config  |       |
>       |         trust |    +-----------------|  Signer  |       |
>       |        anchor |                      +----------+       |
>       |               |                           ^             |
>       |               |                           |             |
>       |            +---------+  requests signing  |             |
>       +----------->|   NMS   |--------------------+             |
>                    +---------+                                  |
>                        |                                        |
>                        +----------------------------------------+
>                          signed Configlet and boot-image file
>
>
>1) I would like to point out that the figure uses the same style for
>drawing protocol endpoints and real-world entities. Maybe that was done
>on purpose; maybe not.

True, "Vendor" is not an endpoint and, while an NMS is an endpoint in
network management scenarios, the relationships drawn are more offline
activities.  You're the first to point this out, and I'm guessing you
think it odd.  Could you suggest how to improve it?   Would replacing the
'+' in the corners with something like 'o', along with a key help much?




>2) The description in the document is not clear when it comes to the
>information that is pre-configured on the device.
>
>Here are two statements from the draft:
>
>         The device
>         is preconfigured with a secure device identity, Configuration
>         Servers URIs, and certificates for both Configuration Signers
>         and Configuration Servers it trusts by default.
>
>         Vendors manufacture the devices with secure device identities
>         and preconfigured Configuration URIs, and Configuration Signer
>         certificates.

Good catch, these statements are almost consistent, but the 2nd paragraph
fails to mention the trust anchor certificate for the Configuration
Server.  Also, as you mention below, both would be improved if
"certificate" were expanded to "trust anchor certificate"



>Is a device now preconfigured with the certificates of the config signer
>and the configuration server?
>
>Figure 1 puts them in some dependency to each other so it is not clear
>which certificate is actually needed. Maybe we are really talking about
>trust anchors?

Yes, these are intended to be trust anchor certificates.   The list of
Configuration Signer trust anchor certs may contain just one entry, the
Vendor's trust anchor used to sign the Configuration Signer CSRs, but we
made it a list in case there is ever a need to have another trust-anchor.
The list of Configuration Server trust anchor certs is similar to the set
of CA certs found in browsers.



>3) When I read "secure device identity" I wasn't quite sure what that
>would actually mean till I read this sentence later in the document.
>
>"  Devices supporting ZeroTouch MUST have a manufacturer-provisioned
>   secure device identifier, as defined in [Std-802.1AR-2009].
>"

Thanks, I'll move the reference up so it's defined at first use.
Actually, there is suggestion to have a Terminology section at the top,
which would've helped here as well.


>Another way to put it is that the device is configured by the
>manufacturer with a certificate and the corresponding private key. The
>certificate has the structure defined in [Std-802.1AR-2009].

Correct.


>A related question concerning figure 1 would then be whether the
>"vendor" is the same as the manufacturer or not.

Yes, we're using these terms interchangeably.  I think we should settle on
one, probably "Vendor".  And again, a Terminology section would help.


>Then you write:
>
>"
>   The IDevID includes both an X.509 certificate,
>   encoding a globally unique per-device identifier, and a chain of
>   X.509 certificates leading to the manufacturer's well-known trust
>   anchor.
>"
>
>Is this CA hierarchy needed to support the functionality for "delegating
>trust to the "config signer" as shown in Figure 1?

No, this certificate chain is needed for when the device calls home to the
NMS.  During either the SSH or TLS transport handshake, the device will
provide these certificates to the NMS so that it can verify the device's
identity.



>This sentence sounds to me like the device has
>* the CA cert of the manufacturer (which is the trust anchor),
>* the certificate issued to the device from some intermediate CA, and
>* a certificate chain that allows path validation of the device
>certificate to the manufacturer CA.

Almost.  Strictly speaking, the device would not need the manufacturer's
trust anchor, as the NMS is expected to have previously gotten it for
themselves (the "imports trust anchor") relation in the diagram above.
This follows the common practice of sending the chain up to but not
including the trust anchor.



>4) Internet-based Configuration Servers =3D NMS?
>
>In Figure 1 you use the term "NMS" and later in the text you talk about
>the Internet-based Configuration Servers or Configuration Servers. Are
>these all the same entities or different entities?

Different entities, albeit it's conceivable that an NMS may incorporate
the Configuration Server role as well.  Another possible bundling would be
for the Configuration Signer to incorporate the Configuration Server role.
 Taking it another step, the Vendor might itself take on both the
Configuration Signer and Configuration Server roles, but I digress.


Great comments, we'll incorporate them in the next update!

Cheers,
Kent





From nobody Tue Dec  9 00:13:14 2014
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From: Rohit R Ranade <rohitrranade@huawei.com>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>, "andy@yumaworks.com" <andy@yumaworks.com>
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Hello,

I have been working on RESTCONF based APIs at the client side. I have a sce=
nario where there are two modules at Server which have same name but differ=
ent namespaces. Is there any mechanism to resolve this conflict ?
As per YANG RFC 6020, I do not see any restriction that module names must b=
e unique.
How do I sent a HTTP request which reaches the intended module( say Module-=
A of NamespaceA) ?

Eg:
Module-A --> NamespaceA
Module-A -> NamespaceB

Note: The resource path for the URI is also same. Making the module names u=
nique is not an option.

Kindly help to provide a solution.

With Regards,
Rohit


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have been working on RESTCONF based APIs at the cl=
ient side. I have a scenario where there are two modules at Server which ha=
ve same name but different namespaces. Is there any mechanism to resolve th=
is conflict ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As per YANG RFC 6020, I do not see any restriction t=
hat module names must be unique.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How do I sent a HTTP request which reaches the inten=
ded module( say Module-A of NamespaceA) ?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Eg: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Module-A <span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings">=E0</=
span> NamespaceA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Module-A -&gt; NamespaceB<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note: The resource path for the URI is also same. Ma=
king the module names unique is not an option.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kindly help to provide a solution.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rohit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A671DA360szxeml512mbschi_--


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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 09:21:12 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Rohit R Ranade <rohitrranade@huawei.com>
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Rohit,

RFC 6020 says:

   Private module names are assigned by the organization owning the
   module without a central registry.  It is RECOMMENDED to choose
   module names that will have a low probability of colliding with
   standard or other enterprise modules and submodules, e.g., by using
   the enterprise or organization name as a prefix for the module name.

The way RESTCONF and the JSON encoding work, module names that collide
do actually break things. Clashing module names may also cause harm
when it comes to YANG imports (unless you use import-by-revision that
the revision dates resolve the ambiguity).

/js

On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 08:13:02AM +0000, Rohit R Ranade wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have been working on RESTCONF based APIs at the client side. I have a scenario where there are two modules at Server which have same name but different namespaces. Is there any mechanism to resolve this conflict ?
> As per YANG RFC 6020, I do not see any restriction that module names must be unique.
> How do I sent a HTTP request which reaches the intended module( say Module-A of NamespaceA) ?
> 
> Eg:
> Module-A --> NamespaceA
> Module-A -> NamespaceB
> 
> Note: The resource path for the URI is also same. Making the module names unique is not an option.
> 
> Kindly help to provide a solution.
> 
> With Regards,
> Rohit
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03.txt
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Hi,


On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Jonathan Hansford
<jonathan@hansfords.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99ve never worked with HTTP and so have been following up the HTT=
P
> definitions listed in section 1.4.2:
>
> =C2=B7         The terms =E2=80=98fragment=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98query=E2=
=80=99 are actually defined in RFC 3986
>

OK

> =C2=B7         The term =E2=80=98header line=E2=80=99 is not defined in R=
FC 2616. Are you using
> it as a generic term for =E2=80=98request line=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98stat=
us line=E2=80=99 that are defined
> in that RFC?

The term 'header line' is used once but not defined.
We are using it to mean Request-Line in most places, so I will change
it to that.
The term header is suggested for a header field.


>
> =C2=B7         The term =E2=80=98path=E2=80=99 is not defined in RFC 2616=
 and is used in that RFC
> for a number of purposes. I presume it is the URI =E2=80=98path=E2=80=99 =
that is intended,
> which is defined in RFC 3986
>

OK


> =C2=B7         The term =E2=80=98response body=E2=80=99 is not defined in=
 RFC 2616 but I presume
> it means the message body of the response.
>

changed 'message body' to 'message-body' and 'response body'
to 'response message-body'


>
>
> Jonathan
>


Andy

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman
> Sent: 26 October 2014 00:17
> Cc: Netconf
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03.txt
>
>
>
> FYI,
>
>
>
> This version of RESTCONF addresses all issues on the github tracker excep=
t
> maybe #9. Also,  #11 was deferred to a future release.
>
>
>
> A change was made to the "stream" list in ietf-restconf-monitoring.yang t=
o
> allow separate stream links for XML and (optionally) JSON encoding of
> notifications.
>
>
>
> A "collection" resource, plus "limit" and "offset" query parameters, have
> been added to allow multiple leaf-list and list instances to be retrieved=
.
> The optional "page" capability allows pagination of list entries, using t=
he
> limit and offset parameters.
>
>
>
> Issue List:
>
> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues
>
>
>
>
>
> Please review the draft and send any comments to the mailing list.
>
> Please post any objections to closing the issues #2 - #8 and #10 - #13.
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 3:46 PM,  <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> directories.
>
>>  This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of
>> the IETF.
>
>>
>
>>         Title           : RESTCONF Protocol
>
>>         Authors         : Andy Bierman
>
>>                           Martin Bjorklund
>
>>                           Kent Watsen
>
>>         Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03.txt
>
>>         Pages           : 99
>
>>         Date            : 2014-10-25
>
>>
>
>> Abstract:
>
>>    This document describes an HTTP-based protocol that provides a
>
>>    programmatic interface for accessing data defined in YANG, using the
>
>>    datastores defined in NETCONF.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf/
>
>>
>
>> There's also a htmlized version available at:
>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03
>
>>
>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>
>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>
>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> tools.ietf.org.
>
>>
>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or
>
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Netconf mailing list
>
> Netconf@ietf.org
>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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Dear NETCONF WG,

please find below the Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15,=
 2014 1700-1900 UTC.
The access information for the virtual meeting is provided in the mail belo=
w.

I would like to invite all key players in the WG to participate in the meet=
ing and the discussion we are going to have.
Based on the discussion result and preparation, we aim to start the WGLC fo=
r some of the WG items soon.

There is a special time slot in the agenda on the I2RS Ephemeral State we d=
iscussed in IETF #91 and I2RS key player are invited to attend.=20
Susan, Jeff: Please forward as appropriate. Thanks.


Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15, 2014 1700-1900 UTC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------

Agenda is also available at:=20
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/15/netconf/agenda/agenda-in=
terim-2014-netconf-5=20

- 5 min chair intro, scribe, agenda bashing
  The note taking will be done on: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/netconf-z=20

Issue discussion and status check per WG item:

- Call Home (Kent) (5min)
  Currently no open issues.
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues=20

- Server Model (Kent) (20min)
  Currently 5 open issues.
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues

- rfc5539bis (Juergen) (5min)
  The two issues decided in IETF 91 are in preparation.

- Restconf (Andy) (30min)
  Currently 4 open issues.
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues=20

- Zerotouch (Kent) (20min)
  Currently 1 open issues.
  https://github.com/netconf-wg/yang-patch/issues

- I2RS Ephemeral state (Susan, Jeff) (30min)
  Please provide slides before the meeting.

- 5 min AOB other topics

Best Regards,
Mehmet  & Mahesh


-----Original Message-----
From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext IESG Secre=
tary
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 10:05 PM
To: IETF Announcement List
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [Netconf] NETCONF WG Virtual Interim Meetings December 15, 2014, a=
nd bi-weekly starting January 5, 2015

The NETCONF WG will hold a series of virtual interim meetings beginning Mon=
day, December 15, 2014.

Meeting day: Mondays
Time: 1800 CET
Duration: 2 hours

Dates: December 15, 2014 1-time
and starting with: January 5, 2015 bi-weekly
End date: March 16, 2015

WebEx information:

Meeting number: 640 672 878
Meeting password: nc2015
Audio connection:
1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 640 672 878
Meeting link: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2580594e0bc14b4b94f=
869a415ce437c=20

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Tue Dec  9 10:43:57 2014
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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Hi,

A new issue has been added to the tracker:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15

There are 3 solutions mentioned.
The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
do something else.


Andy


From nobody Wed Dec 10 00:40:59 2014
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01
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Hi Kent,

thanks for the quick response.

Let me try to describe a minimalistic approach that does not cover the
case of learning something via DHCP and that does not delegate signing
authority to someone else.

A device is configured with a certificate (such as [Std-802.1AR-2009]),
the trust anchor of the manufacturer and the URL of a Configuration
Server. These are provided by the manufacturer of the device. You don't
even need to sign it since it is already on the device anyway.

This information is then enough to let this device connect to the
configuration server, use TLS to authenticate that server, and to get
whatever information it needs from there.

Then, it can use some other protocols to connect to a network management
server etc.

Is this a correct description (without the more sophisticated
functionality)?

Ciao
Hannes

On 12/09/2014 04:01 AM, Kent Watsen wrote:
>=20
> Hi Hannes!
>=20
> Thank you for showing interest in this draft, it's great to get your
> security perspective on it.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> I would like to focus my comments on the first figure in the document:=

>>
>>                                  fetches Configlet and
>>                    +----------+  boot-image, if needed
>>       +------------|  Device  |---------------------+
>>       |            +----------+                     |
>>       |                 ^                           |
>>       |                 |                           V
>>       | call home       | manufactures         +----------+
>>       |                 | with necessary       |  Config  |
>>       |                 | default state        |  Server  |<----+
>>       |                 | for ZeroTouch        +----------+     |
>>       |                 |                                       |
>>       |                 |                                       |
>>       |            +----------+  delegates trust                |
>>       |            |  Vendor  |-------------------+             |
>>       |            +----------+                   |             |
>>       |               ^    ^                      |             |
>>       |               |    |                      V             |
>>       |               |    |                 +----------+       |
>>       |       imports |    | validate owner  |  Config  |       |
>>       |         trust |    +-----------------|  Signer  |       |
>>       |        anchor |                      +----------+       |
>>       |               |                           ^             |
>>       |               |                           |             |
>>       |            +---------+  requests signing  |             |
>>       +----------->|   NMS   |--------------------+             |
>>                    +---------+                                  |
>>                        |                                        |
>>                        +----------------------------------------+
>>                          signed Configlet and boot-image file
>>
>>
>> 1) I would like to point out that the figure uses the same style for
>> drawing protocol endpoints and real-world entities. Maybe that was don=
e
>> on purpose; maybe not.
>=20
> True, "Vendor" is not an endpoint and, while an NMS is an endpoint in
> network management scenarios, the relationships drawn are more offline
> activities.  You're the first to point this out, and I'm guessing you
> think it odd.  Could you suggest how to improve it?   Would replacing t=
he
> '+' in the corners with something like 'o', along with a key help much?=

>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> 2) The description in the document is not clear when it comes to the
>> information that is pre-configured on the device.
>>
>> Here are two statements from the draft:
>>
>>         The device
>>         is preconfigured with a secure device identity, Configuration
>>         Servers URIs, and certificates for both Configuration Signers
>>         and Configuration Servers it trusts by default.
>>
>>         Vendors manufacture the devices with secure device identities
>>         and preconfigured Configuration URIs, and Configuration Signer=

>>         certificates.
>=20
> Good catch, these statements are almost consistent, but the 2nd paragra=
ph
> fails to mention the trust anchor certificate for the Configuration
> Server.  Also, as you mention below, both would be improved if
> "certificate" were expanded to "trust anchor certificate"
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> Is a device now preconfigured with the certificates of the config sign=
er
>> and the configuration server?
>>
>> Figure 1 puts them in some dependency to each other so it is not clear=

>> which certificate is actually needed. Maybe we are really talking abou=
t
>> trust anchors?
>=20
> Yes, these are intended to be trust anchor certificates.   The list of
> Configuration Signer trust anchor certs may contain just one entry, the=

> Vendor's trust anchor used to sign the Configuration Signer CSRs, but w=
e
> made it a list in case there is ever a need to have another trust-ancho=
r.
> The list of Configuration Server trust anchor certs is similar to the s=
et
> of CA certs found in browsers.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> 3) When I read "secure device identity" I wasn't quite sure what that
>> would actually mean till I read this sentence later in the document.
>>
>> "  Devices supporting ZeroTouch MUST have a manufacturer-provisioned
>>   secure device identifier, as defined in [Std-802.1AR-2009].
>> "
>=20
> Thanks, I'll move the reference up so it's defined at first use.
> Actually, there is suggestion to have a Terminology section at the top,=

> which would've helped here as well.
>=20
>=20
>> Another way to put it is that the device is configured by the
>> manufacturer with a certificate and the corresponding private key. The=

>> certificate has the structure defined in [Std-802.1AR-2009].
>=20
> Correct.
>=20
>=20
>> A related question concerning figure 1 would then be whether the
>> "vendor" is the same as the manufacturer or not.
>=20
> Yes, we're using these terms interchangeably.  I think we should settle=
 on
> one, probably "Vendor".  And again, a Terminology section would help.
>=20
>=20
>> Then you write:
>>
>> "
>>   The IDevID includes both an X.509 certificate,
>>   encoding a globally unique per-device identifier, and a chain of
>>   X.509 certificates leading to the manufacturer's well-known trust
>>   anchor.
>> "
>>
>> Is this CA hierarchy needed to support the functionality for "delegati=
ng
>> trust to the "config signer" as shown in Figure 1?
>=20
> No, this certificate chain is needed for when the device calls home to =
the
> NMS.  During either the SSH or TLS transport handshake, the device will=

> provide these certificates to the NMS so that it can verify the device'=
s
> identity.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> This sentence sounds to me like the device has
>> * the CA cert of the manufacturer (which is the trust anchor),
>> * the certificate issued to the device from some intermediate CA, and
>> * a certificate chain that allows path validation of the device
>> certificate to the manufacturer CA.
>=20
> Almost.  Strictly speaking, the device would not need the manufacturer'=
s
> trust anchor, as the NMS is expected to have previously gotten it for
> themselves (the "imports trust anchor") relation in the diagram above.
> This follows the common practice of sending the chain up to but not
> including the trust anchor.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> 4) Internet-based Configuration Servers =3D NMS?
>>
>> In Figure 1 you use the term "NMS" and later in the text you talk abou=
t
>> the Internet-based Configuration Servers or Configuration Servers. Are=

>> these all the same entities or different entities?
>=20
> Different entities, albeit it's conceivable that an NMS may incorporate=

> the Configuration Server role as well.  Another possible bundling would=
 be
> for the Configuration Signer to incorporate the Configuration Server ro=
le.
>  Taking it another step, the Vendor might itself take on both the
> Configuration Signer and Configuration Server roles, but I digress.
>=20
>=20
> Great comments, we'll incorporate them in the next update!
>=20
> Cheers,
> Kent
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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From nobody Wed Dec 10 01:08:15 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] uri syntax in restconf
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Hi,

RESTCONF can expose YANG instance data in URIs.  For example, the
resource for user 'bob' is:

/restconf/data/ietf-system:system/authentication/user=3Dbob

What happens if the user name contains unicode characters outside the
ascii range?  For example, 'tom=E1=A8'?  RFC 3986, section 2.4 says:

   When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual
   data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set [UCS]=
,
   the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8
   character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not
   correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent-
   encoded.

So tom=E1=A8 would be encoded as tom%0x%e1%x1%61.

RESTCONF uses the https scheme.  Does this scheme use this translation
of UTF-8 characters?  If so, were is this specified?  RFC 3986 talks
about "new URI scheme".  What exactly does that mean?


/martin


From nobody Wed Dec 10 01:25:16 2014
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From: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] uri syntax in restconf
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> On 10 Dec 2014, at 10:08, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> RESTCONF can expose YANG instance data in URIs.  For example, the
> resource for user 'bob' is:
>=20
> /restconf/data/ietf-system:system/authentication/user=3Dbob
>=20
> What happens if the user name contains unicode characters outside the
> ascii range?  For example, 'tom=C3=A1=C5=A1'?  RFC 3986, section 2.4 =
says:
>=20
>   When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual
>   data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set =
[UCS],
>   the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8
>   character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not
>   correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent-
>   encoded.
>=20
> So tom=C3=A1=C5=A1 would be encoded as tom%0x%e1%x1%61.
>=20
> RESTCONF uses the https scheme.  Does this scheme use this translation
> of UTF-8 characters?  If so, were is this specified?  RFC 3986 talks
> about "new URI scheme".  What exactly does that mean?

RFC 7230?

Lada

>=20
>=20
> /martin
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





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Subject: Re: [Netconf] uri syntax in restconf
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Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> =

> > On 10 Dec 2014, at 10:08, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
> > =

> > Hi,
> > =

> > RESTCONF can expose YANG instance data in URIs.  For example, the
> > resource for user 'bob' is:
> > =

> > /restconf/data/ietf-system:system/authentication/user=3Dbob
> > =

> > What happens if the user name contains unicode characters outside t=
he
> > ascii range?  For example, 'tom=E1=A8'?  RFC 3986, section 2.4 says=
:
> > =

> >   When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual=

> >   data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set [U=
CS],
> >   the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8=

> >   character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not
> >   correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent-=

> >   encoded.
> > =

> > So tom=E1=A8 would be encoded as tom%0x%e1%x1%61.
> > =

> > RESTCONF uses the https scheme.  Does this scheme use this translat=
ion
> > of UTF-8 characters?  If so, were is this specified?  RFC 3986 talk=
s
> > about "new URI scheme".  What exactly does that mean?
> =

> RFC 7230?

But originally, https was defined in 2817.  Are you saying that b/c
RFC 7230 is published after RFC 3986, the https scheme is
implicitly re-classified as a "new" scheme and thus the quoted
paragraph applies?  Does this mean that before 7230 was published,
https did NOT allow this UTF-8 transformation?


/martin


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> On 10 Dec 2014, at 10:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>=20
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 10 Dec 2014, at 10:08, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> RESTCONF can expose YANG instance data in URIs.  For example, the
>>> resource for user 'bob' is:
>>>=20
>>> /restconf/data/ietf-system:system/authentication/user=3Dbob
>>>=20
>>> What happens if the user name contains unicode characters outside =
the
>>> ascii range?  For example, 'tom=C3=A1=C5=A1'?  RFC 3986, section 2.4 =
says:
>>>=20
>>>  When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual
>>>  data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set =
[UCS],
>>>  the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8
>>>  character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not
>>>  correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent-
>>>  encoded.
>>>=20
>>> So tom=C3=A1=C5=A1 would be encoded as tom%0x%e1%x1%61.
>>>=20
>>> RESTCONF uses the https scheme.  Does this scheme use this =
translation
>>> of UTF-8 characters?  If so, were is this specified?  RFC 3986 talks
>>> about "new URI scheme".  What exactly does that mean?
>>=20
>> RFC 7230?
>=20
> But originally, https was defined in 2817.  Are you saying that b/c
> RFC 7230 is published after RFC 3986, the https scheme is
> implicitly re-classified as a "new" scheme and thus the quoted

I don=E2=80=99t think the adjective =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D has any =
special meaning, perhaps the text was just meant as instructions for URI =
scheme designers and implementors.

> paragraph applies?  Does this mean that before 7230 was published,
> https did NOT allow this UTF-8 transformation?

It sure did, the percent encoding is part of URI generic syntax as =
defined in RFC 3986 (and 2396 before that). RFC 7230 only explicitly =
says =E2=80=9Chttp=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Chttps=E2=80=9D conform to the =
URI generic syntax.

So I think there is no doubt about what a RESTCONF client is expected to =
do when encoding non-ASCII data in Request-URI.

Lada

>=20
>=20
> /martin

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





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----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@tail-f.com>
To: <netconf@ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:08 AM

Hi,

RESTCONF can expose YANG instance data in URIs.  For example, the
resource for user 'bob' is:

/restconf/data/ietf-system:system/authentication/user=bob

What happens if the user name contains unicode characters outside the
ascii range?  For example, 'tomá¨'?  RFC 3986, section 2.4 says:

<tp>

I am unclear which component this is part of but, in general, once you
are into
%xA0-D7FF
then you are into IRIs and RFC3987, which explains how to encode.

Tom Petch


   When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual
   data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set [UCS],
   the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8
   character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not
   correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent-
   encoded.

So tomá¨ would be encoded as tom%0x%e1%x1%61.

RESTCONF uses the https scheme.  Does this scheme use this translation
of UTF-8 characters?  If so, were is this specified?  RFC 3986 talks
about "new URI scheme".  What exactly does that mean?


/martin

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] username from X.503 was Re: Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF #91
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Watsen" <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; "t.
petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Cc: "netconf" <netconf@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 2:12 AM
>>
>> > Describe algorithm for extracting a user name out of the X509
>> attributes
>> >    - loud humm in favor
>> >
>>
>> A clarification - does this mean that this algorithm goes in
>> netconf-server?
>
>The idea (as far as I understood it) is that NC over TLS provides a
>high-level description of the algorithm. The NC server configuration
>document will define the YANG objects to configure this.

I didn't articulate clearly enough at the mic about the "what" and
"how", but Juergen agreed so I'm sure not that he's a mindreader  ;)

Anyway, in reflecting on this, I realized what I should've said
is that it should be whatever is needed so that 5539bis has an
Informative (not Normative) reference to server-model.   Again,
this is the necessary because alternate configuration models can
exist, thus it doesn't make sense to me for 5539bis to say that
it can *only* be configured by just the server-model.

My hope is that 5539bis will assert that client-certs are required
and specify that servers must be configurable to know how to extract
a username using the various options (specified, subAltName, DNS,
etc.).   Another option is for 5539bis to have a Normative reference
onto draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg, section 4.1, though that may be too
convoluted for some.

<tp>
Yes, and no.  SNMP over TLS requires the client to present a certificate
which must be present in the server's table, and that is it.  No DNS,
AltName etc.  I would want a good reason to move on from that (perhaps
customers have done so).  But that is in RFC6353 and not in snmp-cfg,
which is different in some details.

Also, I don't know where we got to with SSH and certificates, whether or
not that is likely to appear - part of my logic is that putting it in
server-model covers all protocols for the server (but not for the
client) while putting it in 5539bis can cover both client and server
(but only for TLS).

Tom Petch





Kent




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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] username from X.503 was Re: Summary of and AIs from the NETCONF Session in IETF #91
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On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 03:23:09PM +0000, t. petch wrote:

> Yes, and no.  SNMP over TLS requires the client to present a certificate
> which must be present in the server's table, and that is it.  No DNS,
> AltName etc.

I do not think this is correct. The algorithm details how to extract a
name from certificate fields.

> I would want a good reason to move on from that (perhaps
> customers have done so).  But that is in RFC6353 and not in snmp-cfg,
> which is different in some details.

snmp-cfg is yangifying the algorithm defined in RFC 6353, there is no
functional difference.

> Also, I don't know where we got to with SSH and certificates, whether or
> not that is likely to appear - part of my logic is that putting it in
> server-model covers all protocols for the server (but not for the
> client) while putting it in 5539bis can cover both client and server
> (but only for TLS).

Lets not make this more complex by putting other protocols on the
table. Fact is that the server has to derive a username for say NACM
to work. The question whether we should go into client config was
discussed at some IETF meeting some time ago and I heard consensus to
not go there.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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I dislike S1, since it attempts to reuse a standard yang construct
in a way that is confusing and misleading.  My comment at the last
meeting was something like, wouldn't we be upset of some other
working group did something like this?  I sure would be.  It's
a bad precedent and we shouldn't be doing it.

S2 is acceptable.

Thanks,
 Phil



Andy Bierman writes:
>Hi,
>
>A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>
>https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>
>There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>do something else.
>
>
>Andy
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Thu Dec 11 01:06:57 2014
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Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>
> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>
> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
> do something else.

The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"

I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension. If we want
to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done properly.

I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and have
"errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.

S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated. 

Lada

>
>
> Andy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C


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To: lhotka@nic.cz
From: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > A new issue has been added to the tracker:
> >
> > https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
> >
> > There are 3 solutions mentioned.
> > The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
> > unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
> > do something else.
> 
> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
> 
> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.

I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-data'
or something.

> If we want
> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done properly.
> 
> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and have
> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.

This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal config
or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
normal way.

> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated. 

I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
will be less precise than an extension.


/martin


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From: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>=20
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>=20
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>=20
>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>=20
>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>> do something else.
>>=20
>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
>>=20
>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>=20
> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-data'
> or something.

So another document that wants to do the same should define its own ad =
hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?

>=20
>> If we want
>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done =
properly.
>>=20
>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and =
have
>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>=20
> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal config
> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
> normal way.

What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different? In any =
case, the module description has to state very clearly that it is a =
strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the normal =
NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG semantics, =
as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG tools because =
they would produce wrong results.

If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating =
correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.

And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to implement it =
as if it was a normal module, so what?=20

>=20
>> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated.=20=

>=20
> I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
> will be less precise than an extension.

I prefer less precise to precise but wrong. Keep in mind that you are a =
YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language =
anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.

Lada

>=20
>=20
> /martin

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





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From: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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> On 11 Dec 2014, at 13:48, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>=20
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>>>=20
>>>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>>>> do something else.
>>>>=20
>>>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
>>>>=20
>>>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>>=20
>>> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
>>> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
>>> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>>> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or =
'restconf-data'
>>> or something.
>>=20
>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own =
ad
>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>=20
> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would import
> and use 'restconf-structure=E2=80=99.

I am talking about an author of an unrelated document who just wants to =
use YANG as a schema language.

>=20
>>>> If we want
>>>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>>> properly.
>>>>=20
>>>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and
>>>> have
>>>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>>>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>>=20
>>> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal =
config
>>> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
>>> normal way.
>>=20
>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>=20
> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
> config or oper state, but something else.

If it is neither config nor state data, then a number of things such as =
XPath context are undefined. Is every list then required to have a key =
or not? This is a slippery slope, turning YANG into a schema language is =
not as easy as this.

>=20
>> In
>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it is
>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the =
normal
>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>=20
>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating
>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>=20
>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to implement
>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated.=20=

>>>=20
>>> I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
>>> will be less precise than an extension.
>>=20
>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>=20
> An extension is in no way wrong.

An extension that changes normal YANG semantics is wrong.

Lada

>=20
>> Keep in mind that you are
>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language
>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>=20
>=20
> /martin

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





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From: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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> On 11 Dec 2014, at 14:11, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>=20
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 13:48, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>>>>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>>>>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>>>>>> do something else.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>>>>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in =
groupings!"
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this =
case.
>>>>> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  =
'structure'
>>>>> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>>>>> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or =
'restconf-data'
>>>>> or something.
>>>>=20
>>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own =
ad
>>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>>>=20
>>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would =
import
>>> and use 'restconf-structure=E2=80=99.
>>=20
>> I am talking about an author of an unrelated document who just wants
>> to use YANG as a schema language.
>=20
> They wouldn't use 'restconf-structure', but are free to define their
> own extensions.
>=20
>>>>>> If we want
>>>>>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings =
and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as =
top-level
>>>>>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal =
config
>>>>> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in =
the
>>>>> normal way.
>>>>=20
>>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>>>=20
>>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
>>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>>> config or oper state, but something else.
>>=20
>> If it is neither config nor state data, then a number of things such
>> as XPath context are undefined.
>=20
> Correct; this needs to be taken care of for each extension.
>=20
>> Is every list then required to have a
>> key or not? This is a slippery slope, turning YANG into a schema
>> language is not as easy as this.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> In
>>>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it =
is
>>>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the =
normal
>>>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>>>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>>>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>>>=20
>>>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for =
generating
>>>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>>>=20
>>>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to =
implement
>>>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that =
complicated.=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text =
it
>>>>> will be less precise than an extension.
>>>>=20
>>>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>>>=20
>>> An extension is in no way wrong.
>>=20
>> An extension that changes normal YANG semantics is wrong.
>=20
> But this one doesn't change normal YANG semantics.

It does, already because it defines neither config nor state data. What =
happens if

config false;

is used inside such an extension?

Lada

>=20
>=20
> /martin

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





From nobody Thu Dec 11 05:49:52 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Using the NETCONF Protocol over Transport Layer Security (TLS) with Mutual X.509 Authentication
        Authors         : Mohamad Badra
                          Alan Luchuk
                          Juergen Schoenwaelder
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2014-12-11

Abstract:
   The Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) provides mechanisms to
   install, manipulate, and delete the configuration of network devices.
   This document describes how to use the Transport Layer Security (TLS)
   protocol with mutual X.509 authentication to secure the exchange of
   NETCONF messages.  This revision of RFC 5539 documents the new
   message framing used by NETCONF 1.1 and it obsoletes RFC 5539.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Dec 11 06:52:57 2014
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On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>
>> > On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>> >> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>> >>>
>> >>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>> >>>
>> >>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>> >>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>> >>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>> >>> do something else.
>> >>
>> >> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>> >> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
>> >>
>> >> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>> >
>> > I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
>> > However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
>> > was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>> > this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-data'
>> > or something.
>>
>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own ad
>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>
> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would import
> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>
>> >> If we want
>> >> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>> >> properly.
>> >>
>> >> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and
>> >> have
>> >> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>> >> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>> >
>> > This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal config
>> > or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
>> > normal way.
>>
>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>
> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
> config or oper state, but something else.
>



I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.

I am already using 1 of these groupings in a logging model.
Please explain why these are special groupings that cannot
be used in a normal data model in another module.

That is why I prefer solution S2-B

  rc:structure errors {
     uses errors;
  }

This assigns a module-name and a namespace and does not
preclude re-usage of the data within a larger data structure.


>> In
>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it is
>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the normal
>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>
>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating
>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>
>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to implement
>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>
>> >
>> >> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated.
>> >
>> > I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
>> > will be less precise than an extension.
>>
>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>
> An extension is in no way wrong.
>

agreed

>> Keep in mind that you are
>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language
>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>
>
> /martin

Andy


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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> On 11 Dec 2014, at 15:52, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>=20
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> =
wrote:
>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>>>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>>>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>>>>> do something else.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>>>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in =
groupings!"
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>>>=20
>>>> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this =
case.
>>>> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
>>>> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>>>> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or =
'restconf-data'
>>>> or something.
>>>=20
>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own =
ad
>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>>=20
>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would import
>> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>>=20
>>>>> If we want
>>>>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>>>> properly.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and
>>>>> have
>>>>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>>>>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>>>=20
>>>> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal =
config
>>>> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in =
the
>>>> normal way.
>>>=20
>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>>=20
>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>> config or oper state, but something else.
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
> I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
> just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.

This is not the problem - what I consider seriously broken is the =
handling of the namespace. The description of the issue says:

    The namespace and module-name of the content are not identified in =
YANG.

However, in the draft the content happens to receive the namespace and =
module-name of the ietf-restconf module. There is no way how this can be =
achieved unless these groupings are used in that module.

Lada

>=20
> I am already using 1 of these groupings in a logging model.
> Please explain why these are special groupings that cannot
> be used in a normal data model in another module.
>=20
> That is why I prefer solution S2-B
>=20
>  rc:structure errors {
>     uses errors;
>  }
>=20
> This assigns a module-name and a namespace and does not
> preclude re-usage of the data within a larger data structure.
>=20
>=20
>>> In
>>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it =
is
>>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the =
normal
>>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>>=20
>>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating
>>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>>=20
>>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to =
implement
>>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that =
complicated.
>>>>=20
>>>> I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
>>>> will be less precise than an extension.
>>>=20
>>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>>=20
>> An extension is in no way wrong.
>>=20
>=20
> agreed
>=20
>>> Keep in mind that you are
>>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language
>>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>>=20
>>=20
>> /martin
>=20
> Andy

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:12:23 -0800
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Cc: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>
>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 15:52, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote=
:
>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>>>>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>>>>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>>>>>> do something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>>>>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
>>>>> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
>>>>> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>>>>> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-data'
>>>>> or something.
>>>>
>>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own ad
>>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>>>
>>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would import
>>> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>>>
>>>>>> If we want
>>>>>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>>>>>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal confi=
g
>>>>> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
>>>>> normal way.
>>>>
>>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>>>
>>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
>>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>>> config or oper state, but something else.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
>> I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
>> just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.
>
> This is not the problem - what I consider seriously broken is the handlin=
g of the namespace. The description of the issue says:
>
>     The namespace and module-name of the content are not identified in YA=
NG.
>

That is not solution S2-B.
That is solution S-1, which Phil also rejected.


> However, in the draft the content happens to receive the namespace and mo=
dule-name of the ietf-restconf module. There is no way how this can be achi=
eved unless these groupings are used in that module.

Solution S2-B would assign a module-name and namespace
as defined by the extension we add.  The extension, groupings
and extension usage would all be in ietf-restconf.yang.


>
> Lada
>

Andy

>>
>> I am already using 1 of these groupings in a logging model.
>> Please explain why these are special groupings that cannot
>> be used in a normal data model in another module.
>>
>> That is why I prefer solution S2-B
>>
>>  rc:structure errors {
>>     uses errors;
>>  }
>>
>> This assigns a module-name and a namespace and does not
>> preclude re-usage of the data within a larger data structure.
>>
>>
>>>> In
>>>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it is
>>>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the normal
>>>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>>>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>>>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>>>
>>>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating
>>>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>>>
>>>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to implement
>>>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
>>>>> will be less precise than an extension.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>>>
>>> An extension is in no way wrong.
>>>
>>
>> agreed
>>
>>>> Keep in mind that you are
>>>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language
>>>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>>>
>>>
>>> /martin
>>
>> Andy
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C
>
>
>
>


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Cc: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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> On 11 Dec 2014, at 16:12, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>=20
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 15:52, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> =
wrote:
>>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> =
wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>>>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>>>>>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>>>>>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>>>>>>> do something else.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>>>>>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in =
groupings!"
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this =
case.
>>>>>> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  =
'structure'
>>>>>> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) =
for
>>>>>> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or =
'restconf-data'
>>>>>> or something.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its =
own ad
>>>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>>>>=20
>>>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>>>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would =
import
>>>> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> If we want
>>>>>>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings =
and
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as =
top-level
>>>>>>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal =
config
>>>>>> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in =
the
>>>>>> normal way.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>>>>=20
>>>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension =
would
>>>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>>>> config or oper state, but something else.
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
>>> I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
>>> just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.
>>=20
>> This is not the problem - what I consider seriously broken is the =
handling of the namespace. The description of the issue says:
>>=20
>>    The namespace and module-name of the content are not identified in =
YANG.
>>=20
>=20
> That is not solution S2-B.
> That is solution S-1, which Phil also rejected.
>=20
>=20
>> However, in the draft the content happens to receive the namespace =
and module-name of the ietf-restconf module. There is no way how this =
can be achieved unless these groupings are used in that module.
>=20
> Solution S2-B would assign a module-name and namespace
> as defined by the extension we add.  The extension, groupings
> and extension usage would all be in ietf-restconf.yang.

Such an extension changes the semantics of the built-in =E2=80=9Cgrouping=E2=
=80=9D statement. Let=E2=80=99s start designing YANG 2.0 as a general =
multi-encoding schema language, but please don=E2=80=99t do this. If it =
is only to be used in one or two modules, it is not worth the hassle and =
confusion.

Lada=20

>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Lada
>>=20
>=20
> Andy
>=20
>>>=20
>>> I am already using 1 of these groupings in a logging model.
>>> Please explain why these are special groupings that cannot
>>> be used in a normal data model in another module.
>>>=20
>>> That is why I prefer solution S2-B
>>>=20
>>> rc:structure errors {
>>>    uses errors;
>>> }
>>>=20
>>> This assigns a module-name and a namespace and does not
>>> preclude re-usage of the data within a larger data structure.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>> In
>>>>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it =
is
>>>>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the =
normal
>>>>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>>>>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>>>>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for =
generating
>>>>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to =
implement
>>>>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that =
complicated.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text =
it
>>>>>> will be less precise than an extension.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>>>>=20
>>>> An extension is in no way wrong.
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> agreed
>>>=20
>>>>> Keep in mind that you are
>>>>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by =
language
>>>>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> /martin
>>>=20
>>> Andy
>>=20
>> --
>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>
>> > On 11 Dec 2014, at 16:12, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 15:52, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote=
:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>> >>>>>>>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>> >>>>>>>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>> >>>>>>>> do something else.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>> >>>>>>> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in grouping=
s!"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this ca=
se.
>> >>>>>> However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structur=
e'
>> >>>>>> was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) fo=
r
>> >>>>>> this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-d=
ata'
>> >>>>>> or something.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its ow=
n ad
>> >>>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>> >>>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would impo=
rt
>> >>>> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>> If we want
>> >>>>>>> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>> >>>>>>> properly.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings a=
nd
>> >>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-lev=
el
>> >>>>>>> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal c=
onfig
>> >>>>>> or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in =
the
>> >>>>>> normal way.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension woul=
d
>> >>>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>> >>>> config or oper state, but something else.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
>> >>> I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
>> >>> just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.
>> >>
>> >> This is not the problem - what I consider seriously broken is the
>> >> handling of the namespace. The description of the issue says:
>> >>
>> >>    The namespace and module-name of the content are not identified in
>> >>    YANG.
>> >>
>> >
>> > That is not solution S2-B.
>> > That is solution S-1, which Phil also rejected.
>> >
>> >
>> >> However, in the draft the content happens to receive the namespace an=
d
>> >> module-name of the ietf-restconf module. There is no way how this can
>> >> be achieved unless these groupings are used in that module.
>> >
>> > Solution S2-B would assign a module-name and namespace
>> > as defined by the extension we add.  The extension, groupings
>> > and extension usage would all be in ietf-restconf.yang.
>>
>> Such an extension changes the semantics of the built-in =E2=80=9Cgroupin=
g=E2=80=9D
>> statement.
>
> No!  The grouping is just like any other grouping.
>


Yes -- in order to apply YANG constraints like must/when, the
context node has to be specified with a uses-stmt.
This has always been true for groupings.  The must/when
expressions need to be considered carefully, since YANG
does not constrain the context of the uses-stmt.

YANG constraints do not apply when used inside an extension
because the context is not any of the ones specified in the RFC.


>
> /martin

Andy


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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We have jus=
t published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and articula=
ting what functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG Da=
tastore.

Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in January.

Thanks!
Eric, Alex, & Alberto

-----Original Message-----
From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit (evoit)
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
To: i2rs@ietf.org
Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements

A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other WG have =
addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document=20
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00=20
assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS perspect=
ive, and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond the=
 IETF.=20

This document is a good companion document for
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00=20

Thanks,
Eric , Alex, & Alberto

-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo);=
 Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Vo=
it (evoit)
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-=
00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF reposit=
ory.

Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
Revision:	00
Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
Document date:	2014-12-10
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		13
URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub=
-requirements-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-re=
quirements/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirem=
ents-00


Abstract:
   This document provides requirements for a service that allows client
   applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based on
   criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be pushed
   to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need for
   periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
   functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
   Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub" service
   for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements for
   the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinements
   include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
   underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.

                                                                           =
      =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
i2rs mailing list
i2rs@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs


From nobody Thu Dec 11 11:17:35 2014
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From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
To: "ext Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Hi Eric,

can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and explain sho=
rtly the focus of the draft?

Cheers,=20
Mehmet=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Eric Voi=
t (evoit)
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
> To: netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>=20
> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We have j=
ust
> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and articula=
ting what
> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG Datastore.
>=20
> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in January=
.
>=20
> Thanks!
> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit (evoit)
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
> To: i2rs@ietf.org
> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>=20
> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other WG hav=
e
> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS perspe=
ctive,
> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond the IE=
TF.
>=20
> This document is a good companion document for
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
>=20
> Thanks,
> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo=
); Alexander
> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit=
)
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirement=
s-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF repos=
itory.
>=20
> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> Revision:	00
> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
> Document date:	2014-12-10
> Group:		Individual Submission
> Pages:		13
> URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-s=
ub-
> requirements-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-=
requirements/
> Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requir=
ements-00
>=20
>=20
> Abstract:
>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows client
>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based on
>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be pushed
>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need for
>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub" service
>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements for
>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinements
>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion until the
> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> i2rs mailing list
> i2rs@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Thu Dec 11 12:33:01 2014
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From: "Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)" <albertgo@cisco.com>
To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>, "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:32:56 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Thanks Mehmet,
I can do it.

Please provide me with the details for the slot we would have for this
draft.

Thanks,

Alberto

On 12/11/14, 11:17 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
<mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:

>Hi Eric,
>
>can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and explain
>shortly the focus of the draft?
>
>Cheers,=20
>Mehmet=20
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Eric
>>Voit (evoit)
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
>> To: netconf@ietf.org
>> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>>=20
>> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We have
>>just
>> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and
>>articulating what
>> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG
>>Datastore.
>>=20
>> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in
>>January.
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit (evoit)
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
>> To: i2rs@ietf.org
>> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
>> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>>=20
>> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other WG
>>have
>> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
>> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS
>>perspective,
>> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond the
>>IETF.
>>=20
>> This document is a good companion document for
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
>> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto
>>(albertgo); Alexander
>> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit
>>(evoit)
>> Subject: New Version Notification for
>>draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF
>>repository.
>>=20
>> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> Revision:	00
>> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
>> Document date:	2014-12-10
>> Group:		Individual Submission
>> Pages:		13
>> URL:           =20
>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-
>> requirements-00.txt
>> Status:        =20
>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements/
>> Htmlized:      =20
>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
>>=20
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows client
>>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based on
>>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be pushed
>>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need for
>>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
>>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
>>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub" service
>>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements for
>>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinements
>>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
>>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>submission until the
>> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>=20
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> i2rs mailing list
>> i2rs@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netconf mailing list
>> Netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Thu Dec 11 12:36:06 2014
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From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
To: "ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)" <albertgo@cisco.com>, "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:35:54 +0000
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References: <E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F81958AA35@DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net> <D0AF3C8C.18662%albertgo@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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The agenda is unfortunately pretty full.
You can get a few min. at the beginning of the I2RS slot, which is planned =
to start approx. at 1925 CET.
See attached invitation.

Cheers,=20
Mehmet=20


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:33 PM
> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>=20
> Thanks Mehmet,
> I can do it.
>=20
> Please provide me with the details for the slot we would have for this
> draft.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Alberto
>=20
> On 12/11/14, 11:17 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
> >Hi Eric,
> >
> >can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and explain
> >shortly the focus of the draft?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Mehmet
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Eric
> >>Voit (evoit)
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
> >> To: netconf@ietf.org
> >> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >>
> >> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We hav=
e
> >>just
> >> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and
> >>articulating what
> >> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG
> >>Datastore.
> >>
> >> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in
> >>January.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit (evoi=
t)
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
> >> To: i2rs@ietf.org
> >> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
> >> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >>
> >> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other WG
> >>have
> >> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
> >> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS
> >>perspective,
> >> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond the
> >>IETF.
> >>
> >> This document is a good companion document for
> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
> >> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto
> >>(albertgo); Alexander
> >> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit
> >>(evoit)
> >> Subject: New Version Notification for
> >>draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> >> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF
> >>repository.
> >>
> >> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >> Revision:	00
> >> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
> >> Document date:	2014-12-10
> >> Group:		Individual Submission
> >> Pages:		13
> >> URL:
> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-
> >> requirements-00.txt
> >> Status:
> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements/
> >> Htmlized:
> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
> >>
> >>
> >> Abstract:
> >>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows clien=
t
> >>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based on
> >>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be push=
ed
> >>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need for
> >>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
> >>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
> >>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub" service
> >>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements for
> >>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinements
> >>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
> >>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> >>submission until the
> >> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >>
> >> The IETF Secretariat
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> i2rs mailing list
> >> i2rs@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Netconf mailing list
> >> Netconf@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Netconf mailing list
> >Netconf@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
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Dear NETCONF WG,

please find below the Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15,=
 2014 1700-1900 UTC.
The access information for the virtual meeting is provided in the mail belo=
w.

I would like to invite all key players in the WG to participate in the meet=
ing and the discussion we are going to have.
Based on the discussion result and preparation, we aim to start the WGLC fo=
r some of the WG items soon.

There is a special time slot in the agenda on the I2RS Ephemeral State we d=
iscussed in IETF #91 and I2RS key player are invited to attend.
Susan, Jeff: Please forward as appropriate. Thanks.


Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15, 2014 1700-1900 UTC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------

Agenda is also available at:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/15/netconf/agenda/agenda-in=
terim-2014-netconf-5

- 5 min chair intro, scribe, agenda bashing
  The note taking will be done on: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/netconf-z

Issue discussion and status check per WG item:

- Call Home (Kent) (5min)
  Currently no open issues.
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues

- Server Model (Kent) (20min)
  Currently 5 open issues.
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues

- rfc5539bis (Juergen) (5min)
  The two issues decided in IETF 91 are in preparation.

- Restconf (Andy) (30min)
  Currently 4 open issues.
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues

- Zerotouch (Kent) (20min)
  Currently 1 open issues.
  https://github.com/netconf-wg/yang-patch/issues

- I2RS Ephemeral state (Susan, Jeff) (30min)
  Please provide slides before the meeting.

- 5 min AOB other topics

Best Regards,
Mehmet  & Mahesh


-----Original Message-----
From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext IESG Secre=
tary
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 10:05 PM
To: IETF Announcement List
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [Netconf] NETCONF WG Virtual Interim Meetings December 15, 2014, a=
nd bi-weekly starting January 5, 2015

The NETCONF WG will hold a series of virtual interim meetings beginning Mon=
day, December 15, 2014.

Meeting day: Mondays
Time: 1800 CET
Duration: 2 hours

Dates: December 15, 2014 1-time
and starting with: January 5, 2015 bi-weekly
End date: March 16, 2015

WebEx information:

Meeting number: 640 672 878
Meeting password: nc2015
Audio connection:
1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 640 672 878
Meeting link: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2580594e0bc14b4b94f=
869a415ce437c

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--_002_E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F81958ABBFDEMUMBX005nsnin_--


From nobody Thu Dec 11 12:40:13 2014
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From: "Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)" <albertgo@cisco.com>
To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>, "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
Thread-Index: AdAVViieql0DVYwjTDSQ2bF1EzwXyQAA7QaAAAdHoHD///PKAP//3hxAgAAj5oA=
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:40:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Thanks Mehmet,

Alberto

On 12/11/14, 12:35 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
<mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:

>The agenda is unfortunately pretty full.
>You can get a few min. at the beginning of the I2RS slot, which is
>planned to start approx. at 1925 CET.
>See attached invitation.
>
>Cheers,=20
>Mehmet=20
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:33 PM
>> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>>=20
>> Thanks Mehmet,
>> I can do it.
>>=20
>> Please provide me with the details for the slot we would have for this
>> draft.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Alberto
>>=20
>> On 12/11/14, 11:17 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
>> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> >Hi Eric,
>> >
>> >can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and explain
>> >shortly the focus of the draft?
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Mehmet
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Eric
>> >>Voit (evoit)
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
>> >> To: netconf@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> >>
>> >> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We
>>have
>> >>just
>> >> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and
>> >>articulating what
>> >> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG
>> >>Datastore.
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in
>> >>January.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit
>>(evoit)
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
>> >> To: i2rs@ietf.org
>> >> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
>> >> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> >>
>> >> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other WG
>> >>have
>> >> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
>> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
>> >> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS
>> >>perspective,
>> >> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond
>>the
>> >>IETF.
>> >>
>> >> This document is a good companion document for
>> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
>> >> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto
>> >>(albertgo); Alexander
>> >> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit
>> >>(evoit)
>> >> Subject: New Version Notification for
>> >>draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
>> >> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF
>> >>repository.
>> >>
>> >> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> >> Revision:	00
>> >> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
>> >> Document date:	2014-12-10
>> >> Group:		Individual Submission
>> >> Pages:		13
>> >> URL:
>> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-
>> >> requirements-00.txt
>> >> Status:
>> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements/
>> >> Htmlized:
>> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Abstract:
>> >>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows
>>client
>> >>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based
>>on
>> >>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be
>>pushed
>> >>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need for
>> >>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
>> >>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
>> >>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub"
>>service
>> >>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements
>>for
>> >>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinements
>> >>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
>> >>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> >>submission until the
>> >> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>> >>
>> >> The IETF Secretariat
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> i2rs mailing list
>> >> i2rs@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Netconf mailing list
>> >> Netconf@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Netconf mailing list
>> >Netconf@ietf.org
>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>


From nobody Thu Dec 11 12:55:43 2014
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From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
To: "ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)" <albertgo@cisco.com>, "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:55:33 +0000
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References: <E4DE949E6CE3E34993A2FF8AE79131F81958ABBF@DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net> <D0AF410B.18690%albertgo@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Hi Alberto,

you get only a few minutes which basically eats from the I2RS discussion ti=
me concerning the Ephemeral State.
I expect that you explain _shortly_ what it is and where in the future it w=
ill be developed.

You should be also aware that based on the original agreement between NETCO=
NF and I2RS co-chairs,
requirements from I2RS WG directed to NETCONF WG should be first agreed in =
I2RS WG.
However, as I see NETMOD WG might be also involved.

Cheers,=20
Mehmet=20


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:40 PM
> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>=20
> Thanks Mehmet,
>=20
> Alberto
>=20
> On 12/11/14, 12:35 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
> >The agenda is unfortunately pretty full.
> >You can get a few min. at the beginning of the I2RS slot, which is
> >planned to start approx. at 1925 CET.
> >See attached invitation.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Mehmet
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.co=
m]
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:33 PM
> >> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf.o=
rg
> >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >>
> >> Thanks Mehmet,
> >> I can do it.
> >>
> >> Please provide me with the details for the slot we would have for this
> >> draft.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Alberto
> >>
> >> On 12/11/14, 11:17 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
> >> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Eric,
> >> >
> >> >can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and expla=
in
> >> >shortly the focus of the draft?
> >> >
> >> >Cheers,
> >> >Mehmet
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Er=
ic
> >> >>Voit (evoit)
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
> >> >> To: netconf@ietf.org
> >> >> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >> >>
> >> >> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We
> >>have
> >> >>just
> >> >> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and
> >> >>articulating what
> >> >> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG
> >> >>Datastore.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in
> >> >>January.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks!
> >> >> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit
> >>(evoit)
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
> >> >> To: i2rs@ietf.org
> >> >> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
> >> >> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >> >>
> >> >> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other =
WG
> >> >>have
> >> >> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
> >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
> >> >> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS
> >> >>perspective,
> >> >> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond
> >>the
> >> >>IETF.
> >> >>
> >> >> This document is a good companion document for
> >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
> >> >> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto
> >> >>(albertgo); Alexander
> >> >> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit
> >> >>(evoit)
> >> >> Subject: New Version Notification for
> >> >>draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> >> >> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF
> >> >>repository.
> >> >>
> >> >> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >> >> Revision:	00
> >> >> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
> >> >> Document date:	2014-12-10
> >> >> Group:		Individual Submission
> >> >> Pages:		13
> >> >> URL:
> >> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-
> >> >> requirements-00.txt
> >> >> Status:
> >> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirement=
s/
> >> >> Htmlized:
> >> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Abstract:
> >> >>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows
> >>client
> >> >>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based
> >>on
> >> >>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be
> >>pushed
> >> >>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need f=
or
> >> >>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
> >> >>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
> >> >>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub"
> >>service
> >> >>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements
> >>for
> >> >>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinemen=
ts
> >> >>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
> >> >>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> >> >>submission until the
> >> >> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >> >>
> >> >> The IETF Secretariat
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> i2rs mailing list
> >> >> i2rs@ietf.org
> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Netconf mailing list
> >> >> Netconf@ietf.org
> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Netconf mailing list
> >> >Netconf@ietf.org
> >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >


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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>, "Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)" <albertgo@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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Absolutely agree that the requirements must be first agreed in I2RS.  But w=
e provided notice to the NETCONF mailer as there likely are people who care=
 about this topic here.

I think it is great that Alberto can give a brief intro.  We will pass alon=
g details as this proceeds in I2RS.

Eric

> From: Ersue, Mehmet, December 11, 2014 3:56 PM
>=20
> Hi Alberto,
>=20
> you get only a few minutes which basically eats from the I2RS discussion =
time
> concerning the Ephemeral State.
> I expect that you explain _shortly_ what it is and where in the future it=
 will be
> developed.
>=20
> You should be also aware that based on the original agreement between
> NETCONF and I2RS co-chairs, requirements from I2RS WG directed to NETCONF
> WG should be first agreed in I2RS WG.
> However, as I see NETMOD WG might be also involved.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Mehmet
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.com=
]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:40 PM
> > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf.or=
g
> > Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> >
> > Thanks Mehmet,
> >
> > Alberto
> >
> > On 12/11/14, 12:35 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
> > <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
> >
> > >The agenda is unfortunately pretty full.
> > >You can get a few min. at the beginning of the I2RS slot, which is
> > >planned to start approx. at 1925 CET.
> > >See attached invitation.
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Mehmet
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.=
com]
> > >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:33 PM
> > >> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf=
.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requiremen=
ts
> > >>
> > >> Thanks Mehmet,
> > >> I can do it.
> > >>
> > >> Please provide me with the details for the slot we would have for th=
is
> > >> draft.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Alberto
> > >>
> > >> On 12/11/14, 11:17 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
> > >> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hi Eric,
> > >> >
> > >> >can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and
> explain
> > >> >shortly the focus of the draft?
> > >> >
> > >> >Cheers,
> > >> >Mehmet
> > >> >
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext =
Eric
> > >> >>Voit (evoit)
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
> > >> >> To: netconf@ietf.org
> > >> >> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirement=
s
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  W=
e
> > >>have
> > >> >>just
> > >> >> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and
> > >> >>articulating what
> > >> >> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG
> > >> >>Datastore.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in
> > >> >>January.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Thanks!
> > >> >> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit
> > >>(evoit)
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
> > >> >> To: i2rs@ietf.org
> > >> >> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
> > >> >> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> > >> >>
> > >> >> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Othe=
r
> WG
> > >> >>have
> > >> >> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
> > >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-0=
0
> > >> >> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2R=
S
> > >> >>perspective,
> > >> >> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyon=
d
> > >>the
> > >> >>IETF.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This document is a good companion document for
> > >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Thanks,
> > >> >> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
> > >> >> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto
> > >> >>(albertgo); Alexander
> > >> >> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voi=
t
> > >> >>(evoit)
> > >> >> Subject: New Version Notification for
> > >> >>draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
> > >> >> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IE=
TF
> > >> >>repository.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
> > >> >> Revision:	00
> > >> >> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
> > >> >> Document date:	2014-12-10
> > >> >> Group:		Individual Submission
> > >> >> Pages:		13
> > >> >> URL:
> > >> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-
> > >> >> requirements-00.txt
> > >> >> Status:
> > >> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requireme=
nts/
> > >> >> Htmlized:
> > >> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Abstract:
> > >> >>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows
> > >>client
> > >> >>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Bas=
ed
> > >>on
> > >> >>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be
> > >>pushed
> > >> >>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need=
 for
> > >> >>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills =
a
> > >> >>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
> > >> >>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub"
> > >>service
> > >> >>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirement=
s
> > >>for
> > >> >>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinem=
ents
> > >> >>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objec=
ts
> > >> >>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > >> >>submission until the
> > >> >> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The IETF Secretariat
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> i2rs mailing list
> > >> >> i2rs@ietf.org
> > >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> Netconf mailing list
> > >> >> Netconf@ietf.org
> > >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> > >> >
> > >> >_______________________________________________
> > >> >Netconf mailing list
> > >> >Netconf@ietf.org
> > >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> > >


From nobody Thu Dec 11 19:16:50 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : NETCONF Server and RESTCONF Server Configuration Models
        Authors         : Kent Watsen
                          Juergen Schoenwaelder
	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05.txt
	Pages           : 46
	Date            : 2014-12-11

Abstract:
   This draft defines a NETCONF server configuration data model and a
   RESTCONF server configuration data model.  These data models enable
   configuration of the NETCONF and RESTCONF services themselves,
   including which transports are supported, what ports the servers
   listens on, whether call-home is supported, and associated
   parameters.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Dec 11 19:22:33 2014
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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Dear WG,

This update contains the following changes:

   *  Removed all refs to the old ietf-system-tls-auth module

   *  Removed YANG 1.1 style if-feature statements (loss some
      expressiveness)

   *  Removed the read-only (config false) lists of SSH host-keys and
      TLS certs

   *  Added an if-feature around session-options container

   *  Added ability to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509 client
      certs

   *  YANG modules now import by revision, per best practice

   *  Added support for RESTCONF server

   *  Added RFC Editor instructions



Thanks,
Kent


On 12/11/14, 10:16 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
<internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of
>the IETF.
>
>        Title           : NETCONF Server and RESTCONF Server
>Configuration Models
>        Authors         : Kent Watsen
>                          Juergen Schoenwaelder
>	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05.txt
>	Pages           : 46
>	Date            : 2014-12-11
>
>Abstract:
>   This draft defines a NETCONF server configuration data model and a
>   RESTCONF server configuration data model.  These data models enable
>   configuration of the NETCONF and RESTCONF services themselves,
>   including which transports are supported, what ports the servers
>   listens on, whether call-home is supported, and associated
>   parameters.
>
>
>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model/
>
>There's also a htmlized version available at:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05
>
>A diff from the previous version is available at:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-server-model-05
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
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I prefer S0, only because S1 puts stuff into the standard unnecessarily.

The "cost" for S0 is just removing the import and the identity statements
(8 lines total).  These is currently no normative reference to NETCONF
Monitoring, so the cost for S1 would be to add it.  Thus it seems that S0
< S1  :)

K.


On 12/7/14, 12:16 PM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

>On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> So that is solution S1.
>> We will just define the restconf-tls identity and say
>> in the draft that there is no standard RESTCONF session monitoring
>> and the identity is defined for future use.
>>
>
>
>This creates a normative reference to NETCONF Monitoring for no reason.
>So I am proposing S0 -- do not have anything in the RESTCONF draft
>about session monitoring, and do not define the restconf-tls identity
>until it is needed in a standard YANG module.
>
>If there are no comments, then S1 is still the default solution.
>IMO there is no standards value in S1 but its cost is also low.


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #2: session monitoring
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On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 7:16 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> I prefer S0, only because S1 puts stuff into the standard unnecessarily.
>
> The "cost" for S0 is just removing the import and the identity statements
> (8 lines total).  These is currently no normative reference to NETCONF
> Monitoring, so the cost for S1 would be to add it.  Thus it seems that S0
> < S1  :)
>


I just added that imports on github, so it is not in draft-03.
There is no cost to S0.  It might be a bad idea for developers to use
this identity for proprietary sessions instead of their own identity.

It doesn't help a 3rd party client much if the same identity means
different things on every server.  It makes it hard to tell the standard
sessions from the proprietary sessions, when standard monitoring is
finally published.

Unless there are any objections, we will use solution S0.


> K.
>

Andy

>
> On 12/7/14, 12:16 PM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So that is solution S1.
>>> We will just define the restconf-tls identity and say
>>> in the draft that there is no standard RESTCONF session monitoring
>>> and the identity is defined for future use.
>>>
>>
>>
>>This creates a normative reference to NETCONF Monitoring for no reason.
>>So I am proposing S0 -- do not have anything in the RESTCONF draft
>>about session monitoring, and do not define the restconf-tls identity
>>until it is needed in a standard YANG module.
>>
>>If there are no comments, then S1 is still the default solution.
>>IMO there is no standards value in S1 but its cost is also low.
>


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From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com>
To: ext Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] RESTCONF #4: defaults handling
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Dear All,

please comment on the solution proposal of issue #4 below.
If there is no objection the author is going to implement as proposed.
The issue will be closed in the virtual meeting on Dec 15.

Cheers,=20
Mehmet=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Andy Bie=
rman
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 6:59 PM
> To: Netconf
> Subject: [Netconf] RESTCONF #4: defaults handling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> This is the proposal for draft-04 for defaults handling.
> The text is in the github version of the draft.
>=20
> 1) server MUST include the "defaults" protocol capability in
> the "capability" list with parameter "basic-mode" set.
> Example:
>=20
>     urn:ietf:params:restconf:capability:defaults:1.0?basic-mode=3Dexplici=
t
>=20
>=20
> 2) server MAY support the "with-defaults" query parameter
> (works the same as <with-defaults> parameter for get or get-config)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Andy
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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From nobody Sun Dec 14 08:53:58 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] RESTCONF #16: content parameter should be mandatory-to-implement
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Hi,

A new RESTCONF issue has been added:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/16



Andy


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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Netconf] YANG Patch #1: structure of edit value anyxml
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Hi,

A new YANG Patch issue has been added to the issue tracker:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/yang-patch/issues/1


Andy


From nobody Sun Dec 14 09:26:03 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] YANG Patch #2: parsing QNames in value parameter anyxml
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Hi,

There is a new YANG Patch issue added to the tracker:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/yang-patch/issues/2


YP#1 and YP#2 are general problems with anyxml.
They are probably related to YANG1.1 #Y34

I have run into major problems implementing YANG Patch,
because of anyxml. (Need 1 of our proprietary extensions
implemented in client and server).

YANG Patch relies on YANG anyxml, but unlike the edit-config
<config> parameter, the child nodes of the anyxml node
are not predictable. Child nodes of <config> are not parsed
as anyxml -- the matching YANG schema is applied instead
or it is an unknown object.


Andy


From nobody Mon Dec 15 00:33:53 2014
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Subject: [Netconf] Updated draft-mm-netconf-time-capability-03
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Hi,

A minor revision to avoid expiration.
Any comments will be welcome.

Thanks,
Tal.




A new version of I-D, draft-mm-netconf-time-capability-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mm-netconf-time-capability
Revision:       03
Title:          Time Capability in NETCONF
Document date:  2014-12-15
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          28
URL:             
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mm-netconf-time-capability-03.txt
Status:          
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mm-netconf-time-capability/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mm-netconf-time-capability=
-03
Diff:            
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mm-netconf-time-capability-03

Abstract:
    This document defines a capability-based extension to the Network
    Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) that allows time-triggered
    configuration and management operations. This extension allows
    NETCONF clients to invoke configuration updates according to
    scheduled times, and allows NETCONF servers to attach timestamps to
    the data they send to NETCONF clients.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=E2=80=
=8B


From nobody Mon Dec 15 10:39:42 2014
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
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--_002_D0B46A7F18CC6albertgociscocom_
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Thanks for the opportunity to present today and your comments.
I attach the slides.

Thanks,

Alberto


On 12/11/14, 12:35 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
<mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:

>The agenda is unfortunately pretty full.
>You can get a few min. at the beginning of the I2RS slot, which is
>planned to start approx. at 1925 CET.
>See attached invitation.
>
>Cheers,=20
>Mehmet=20
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo) [mailto:albertgo@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:33 PM
>> To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Eric Voit (evoit); netconf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>>=20
>> Thanks Mehmet,
>> I can do it.
>>=20
>> Please provide me with the details for the slot we would have for this
>> draft.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Alberto
>>=20
>> On 12/11/14, 11:17 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)"
>> <mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> >Hi Eric,
>> >
>> >can any of you attend the NETCONF interim meeting on Dec 15 and explain
>> >shortly the focus of the draft?
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Mehmet
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Eric
>> >>Voit (evoit)
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 5:12 PM
>> >> To: netconf@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: [Netconf] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> >>
>> >> I2RS has a number of YANG datastore subscription requirements.  We
>>have
>> >>just
>> >> published a new draft assembling some of these requirements, and
>> >>articulating what
>> >> functions would be need to be supported by the subscribed YANG
>> >>Datastore.
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully we can discuss this draft during one of the interims in
>> >>January.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >> Eric, Alex, & Alberto
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Voit
>>(evoit)
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:22 AM
>> >> To: i2rs@ietf.org
>> >> Cc: Alexander Clemm (alex); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo)
>> >> Subject: [i2rs] New "-00": draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> >>
>> >> A number of I2RS WG documents ask for Pub/Sub capabilities.  Other WG
>> >>have
>> >> addressed or are looking for similar mechanisms.  The document
>> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
>> >> assembles a view of requirements for a YANG Datastore from an I2RS
>> >>perspective,
>> >> and makes comparisons with capabilities in standards in and beyond
>>the
>> >>IETF.
>> >>
>> >> This document is a good companion document for
>> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Eric , Alex, & Alberto
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 10:03 AM
>> >> To: Alberto Gonzalez Prieto (albertgo); Alberto Gonzalez Prieto
>> >>(albertgo); Alexander
>> >> Clemm (alex); Eric Voit (evoit); Alexander Clemm (alex); Eric Voit
>> >>(evoit)
>> >> Subject: New Version Notification for
>> >>draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A new version of I-D, draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00.txt
>> >> has been successfully submitted by Eric Voit and posted to the IETF
>> >>repository.
>> >>
>> >> Name:		draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements
>> >> Revision:	00
>> >> Title:		Requirements for Subscription to YANG Datastores
>> >> Document date:	2014-12-10
>> >> Group:		Individual Submission
>> >> Pages:		13
>> >> URL:
>> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-
>> >> requirements-00.txt
>> >> Status:
>> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements/
>> >> Htmlized:
>> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Abstract:
>> >>    This document provides requirements for a service that allows
>>client
>> >>    applications to subscribe to updates of a YANG datastore.  Based
>>on
>> >>    criteria negotiated as part of a subscription, updates will be
>>pushed
>> >>    to targeted recipients.  Such a capability eliminates the need for
>> >>    periodic polling of YANG datastores by applications and fills a
>> >>    functional gap in existing YANG transports (i.e.  Netconf and
>> >>    Restconf).  Such a service can be summarized as a "pub/sub"
>>service
>> >>    for YANG datastore updates.  Beyond a set of basic requirements
>>for
>> >>    the service, various refinements are addressed.  These refinements
>> >>    include: periodicity of object updates, filtering out of objects
>> >>    underneath a requested a subtree, and delivery QoS guarantees.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> >>submission until the
>> >> htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>> >>
>> >> The IETF Secretariat
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> i2rs mailing list
>> >> i2rs@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Netconf mailing list
>> >> Netconf@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Netconf mailing list
>> >Netconf@ietf.org
>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>


--_002_D0B46A7F18CC6albertgociscocom_
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--_002_D0B46A7F18CC6albertgociscocom_--


From nobody Mon Dec 15 10:50:07 2014
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:

> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>> >> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Hi,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>> >>>
>>> >>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>> >>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>> >>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>> >>> do something else.
>>> >>
>>> >> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>> >> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
>>> >>
>>> >> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>> >
>>> > I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
>>> > However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
>>> > was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>>> > this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-data'
>>> > or something.
>>>
>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own ad
>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>>
>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would import
>> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>>
>>> >> If we want
>>> >> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>> >> properly.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and
>>> >> have
>>> >> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>>> >> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>> >
>>> > This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal config
>>> > or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
>>> > normal way.
>>>
>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>>
>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>> config or oper state, but something else.
>>
>
>
>
> I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
> I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
> just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.
>
> I am already using 1 of these groupings in a logging model.
> Please explain why these are special groupings that cannot
> be used in a normal data model in another module.
>
> That is why I prefer solution S2-B
>
>   rc:structure errors {
>      uses errors;
>   }
>
> This assigns a module-name and a namespace and does not
> preclude re-usage of the data within a larger data structure.

I don't want to block the resolution of this issue, so I propose that you
write a concrete definition of the extension, and I will then comment on
that.

Lada

>
>
>>> In
>>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it is
>>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the normal
>>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>>
>>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating
>>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>>
>>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to implement
>>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>>
>>> >
>>> >> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated.
>>> >
>>> > I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
>>> > will be less precise than an extension.
>>>
>>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>>
>> An extension is in no way wrong.
>>
>
> agreed
>
>>> Keep in mind that you are
>>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language
>>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>>
>>
>> /martin
>
> Andy

--=20
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C


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Subject: [Netconf] RESTCONF #1: select parameter
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Hi,

The "select" parameter is being renamed the "fields" parameter.

https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/1


Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, this change will
be made in the RESTCONF draft-04 release.


Andy


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Hi,

The collections resource is more complicated than originally
anticipated.  There are additional XPath parameters for
sorting, filtering, pagination, etc. that should be addressed.
Since this an optional feature, not applicable to all
server implementations, it should be in a separate document.

The proposed solution for collections is to move the collection
resource plus the "limit" and "offset" parameters to a new draft
(could be called "Collection Resource for RESTCONF").

This will keep the base RESTCONF protocol simpler and allow
WGLC to start sooner on the base document.

Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, this change
will be made in the next RESTCONF draft. A new draft will
be submitted for the collection resource.


Andy


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Hi,

There is no action to take on this issue.

https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/13

The next revision of the RESTCONF draft will still
contain this module.

Raise any objections on the mailing list.



Andy


From nobody Mon Dec 15 11:52:44 2014
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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
Thread-Index: AQHQGKCtwm2wdLjtRUWu/nGdJOjG4Q==
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:52:37 +0000
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Subject: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
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--_000_D0B4A6358CB91kwatsenjunipernet_
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This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6

Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the call-home draft, it seems that dr=
aft might be somewhat difficult to read, with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and =
SSH/TLS switches in it.  Does anyone else think so?

Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF in th=
is draft as is.

Thanks,
Kent


--_000_D0B4A6358CB91kwatsenjunipernet_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span><a href=3D"=
https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6">https://github.com/netcon=
f-wg/call-home/issues/6</a></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the=
 call-home draft, it seems that draft might be somewhat&nbsp;difficult to r=
ead, with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches in it. &nbsp;Does a=
nyone else think so?</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Unless there are any objections by 1=
2/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF in this draft as is.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Kent</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D0B4A6358CB91kwatsenjunipernet_--


From nobody Mon Dec 15 12:10:19 2014
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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: server-model #21: Add a feature around the global-params section
Thread-Index: AQHQGKMS0hXE1d1xMke0zgE71fMQlQ==
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:09:47 +0000
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This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/21

The change is already in the -05 update posted last Thursday and fully desc=
ribed by this check-in:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/commit/8dfb7229af9b3ab3cbacfe32f=
f9f13c37d4ab934

Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep this change in=
 the draft as is.

PS: this was discussed at IETF 91, but not raised on the list until now

Thanks,
Kent


--_000_D0B4AA3B8CBC1kwatsenjunipernet_
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<head>
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</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
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<div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">This issue was discussed in today's virtu=
al interim meeting:</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre"></span></font><a href=3D"https://github.com/netconf-wg/serv=
er-model/issues/21">https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/21</a=
></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">The change is&nbsp;already in the -0=
5 update posted last&nbsp;Thursday and fully described by this check-in:</f=
ont></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre"></span></font><a href=3D"https://github.com/netconf-wg=
/server-model/commit/8dfb7229af9b3ab3cbacfe32ff9f13c37d4ab934" style=3D"fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/=
commit/8dfb7229af9b3ab3cbacfe32ff9f13c37d4ab934</a></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Unl=
ess there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep this change in th=
e draft as is.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PS: this was discussed at IETF 91, but not raised on the list until no=
w</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Kent</font></div>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
</body>
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--_000_D0B4AA3B8CBC1kwatsenjunipernet_--


From nobody Mon Dec 15 12:16:32 2014
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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
Thread-Index: AQHQGKPzk1Sq1rK1okK6CUcPscsM0w==
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:16:03 +0000
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Subject: [Netconf] server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
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This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:

	https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/18

The change is already in the -05 update posted last Thursday and fully
described by this check-in:

	https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/commit/6a93885b23fcc9d88d4f8d33
363ae084c08fc8ae

Or more simply by:

    +  feature rfc6187 {
    +    description
    +      "The rfc6187 feature indicates that the NETCONF server supports
    +       RFC 6187";
    +    reference
    +      "RFC 6187: X.509v3 Certificates for Secure Shell
Authentication";
    +  }


And:

        +--rw netconf-server
           +--rw ssh {ssh}?
    +         +--rw x509 {rfc6187}?
    +            +--rw trusted-ca-certs
    +            |  +--rw trusted-ca-cert*   binary
    +            +--rw trusted-client-certs
    +               +--rw trusted-client-cert*   binary


Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep this change
in the draft as is.

PS: this was discussed at IETF 91, but not raised on the list until now

Thanks,
Kent



From nobody Mon Dec 15 12:36:37 2014
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:36:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Luchuk <luchuk@snmp.com>
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To: <andy@yumaworks.com>, <netconf@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:28:45 -0800  <CABCOCHTpNbRAwEMe6ddb2+8dfd3hNc2YokFdicUVhc7uTfHqog@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #3: collections
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Hello,

>The collections resource is more complicated than originally
>anticipated.  There are additional XPath parameters for
>sorting, filtering, pagination, etc. that should be addressed.
>Since this an optional feature, not applicable to all
>server implementations, it should be in a separate document.
>
>The proposed solution for collections is to move the collection
>resource plus the "limit" and "offset" parameters to a new draft
>(could be called "Collection Resource for RESTCONF").
>
>This will keep the base RESTCONF protocol simpler and allow
>WGLC to start sooner on the base document.
>
>Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, this change
>will be made in the next RESTCONF draft. A new draft will
>be submitted for the collection resource.


I support moving the collection resource and related parameters
to a new draft.


Regards,
--Alan


From nobody Mon Dec 15 12:50:55 2014
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From: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #3: collections
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> On 15 Dec 2014, at 21:36, Alan Luchuk <luchuk@snmp.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>> The collections resource is more complicated than originally
>> anticipated.  There are additional XPath parameters for
>> sorting, filtering, pagination, etc. that should be addressed.
>> Since this an optional feature, not applicable to all
>> server implementations, it should be in a separate document.
>> 
>> The proposed solution for collections is to move the collection
>> resource plus the "limit" and "offset" parameters to a new draft
>> (could be called "Collection Resource for RESTCONF").
>> 
>> This will keep the base RESTCONF protocol simpler and allow
>> WGLC to start sooner on the base document.
>> 
>> Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, this change
>> will be made in the next RESTCONF draft. A new draft will
>> be submitted for the collection resource.
> 
> 
> I support moving the collection resource and related parameters
> to a new draft.

+1

Lada

> 
> 
> Regards,
> --Alan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C





From nobody Mon Dec 15 13:28:54 2014
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From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
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--_000_D0B491827A2Arepennociscocom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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I think so. I understand the point the chair(?) made today on the call that=
 more drafts require mode energy but the draft today is very difficult to r=
ead.  Moreover, if as we start introducing words like MUST/SHOULD and Netco=
nf/RESTconf have different levels of support then it would be impossible to=
 follow.

Since we are talking about call home draft, I think it is okay for the clie=
nt to identity the server using IP:port instead of just IP. One of the =93s=
trategies=94 is for the server to use STUN/TURN, grab a IP:port and convey =
that info to the client.


Thanks,





From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net<mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM
To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and =
SSH/TLS switches?


This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6

Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the call-home draft, it seems that dr=
aft might be somewhat difficult to read, with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and =
SSH/TLS switches in it.  Does anyone else think so?

Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF in th=
is draft as is.

Thanks,
Kent


--_000_D0B491827A2Arepennociscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>I think so. I understand the point the chair(?) made today on the call=
 that more drafts require mode energy but the draft today is very difficult=
 to read. &nbsp;Moreover, if as we start introducing words like MUST/SHOULD=
 and Netconf/RESTconf have different
 levels of support then it would be impossible to follow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since we are talking about call home draft, I think it is okay for the=
 client to identity the server using IP:port instead of just IP. One of the=
 =93strategies=94 is for the server to use STUN/TURN, grab a IP:port and co=
nvey that info to the client.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:kwatsen@juniper.net">kwatsen@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, December 15, 2014 at =
11:52 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>NetConf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:n=
etconf@ietf.org">netconf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Netconf] call-home#6: Too=
 busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span><a href=3D"=
https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6">https://github.com/netcon=
f-wg/call-home/issues/6</a></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the=
 call-home draft, it seems that draft might be somewhat&nbsp;difficult to r=
ead, with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches in it. &nbsp;Does a=
nyone else think so?</font></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Unless there are any objections by 1=
2/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF in this draft as is.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">Kent</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D0B491827A2Arepennociscocom_--


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:37:44 -0800
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
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On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
<repenno@cisco.com> wrote:
> I think so. I understand the point the chair(?) made today on the call th=
at
> more drafts require mode energy but the draft today is very difficult to
> read.  Moreover, if as we start introducing words like MUST/SHOULD and
> Netconf/RESTconf have different levels of support then it would be
> impossible to follow.

Why can't the text be expanded into 2 sentences where needed,
instead of 2 drafts?  Just use one RFC 2119 keyword per sentence.


Andy



>
> Since we are talking about call home draft, I think it is okay for the
> client to identity the server using IP:port instead of just IP. One of th=
e
> =E2=80=9Cstrategies=E2=80=9D is for the server to use STUN/TURN, grab a I=
P:port and convey
> that info to the client.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
> Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM
> To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF an=
d
> SSH/TLS switches?
>
>
> This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:
>
> https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6
>
> Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the call-home draft, it seems that
> draft might be somewhat difficult to read, with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF =
and
> SSH/TLS switches in it.  Does anyone else think so?
>
> Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF in
> this draft as is.
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>


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From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
Thread-Index: AQHQGK4ZMVLZeaH6bke4DK+bIvTIApyRkfEA//98U4A=
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:46:28 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
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Hi Andy,

I personally think parsing paragraphs like this one is a bit tricky but if
that is what the WG prefers, fine by me.

"   o  Using this TCP session, the NETCONF/RESTCONF server immediately
      starts either the SSH-server or the TLS-server protocol, depending
      on which port is connected.  The server MUST start the SSH-server
      protocol when port PORT-X is connected or the TLS-server protocol
      when either port PORT-Y or PORT-Z is connected.  The SSH-server
      and TLS-server protocols are described by [RFC4253
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4253>] and [RFC5246
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246>]
      respectively.=B2


Thanks,

On 12/15/14, 1:37 PM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

>On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
><repenno@cisco.com> wrote:
>> I think so. I understand the point the chair(?) made today on the call
>>that
>> more drafts require mode energy but the draft today is very difficult to
>> read.  Moreover, if as we start introducing words like MUST/SHOULD and
>> Netconf/RESTconf have different levels of support then it would be
>> impossible to follow.
>
>Why can't the text be expanded into 2 sentences where needed,
>instead of 2 drafts?  Just use one RFC 2119 keyword per sentence.
>
>
>Andy
>
>
>
>>
>> Since we are talking about call home draft, I think it is okay for the
>> client to identity the server using IP:port instead of just IP. One of
>>the
>> =B3strategies=B2 is for the server to use STUN/TURN, grab a IP:port and
>>convey
>> that info to the client.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
>> Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM
>> To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF
>>and
>> SSH/TLS switches?
>>
>>
>> This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:
>>
>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6
>>
>> Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the call-home draft, it seems that
>> draft might be somewhat difficult to read, with all the
>>NETCONF/RESTCONF and
>> SSH/TLS switches in it.  Does anyone else think so?
>>
>> Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF in
>> this draft as is.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kent
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netconf mailing list
>> Netconf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>


From nobody Mon Dec 15 14:19:28 2014
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15, 2014 1700-1900 UTC WAS:FW: NETCONF WG Virtual Interim Meetings December 15, 2014, and bi-weekly starting January 5, 2015
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On Dec 9, 2014, at 1:37 PM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<mehmet.ersue@nsn.com> wrote:
> There is a special time slot in the agenda on the I2RS Ephemeral State =
we discussed in IETF #91 and I2RS key player are invited to attend.=20
> Susan, Jeff: Please forward as appropriate. Thanks.

I'd like to apologize to the WG for missing this time slot.  I had an =
issue where I lost most of my newer calendar entries and thought I had =
recovered all of them.=20

Kent mentions that Sue made the call.  I'll connect with her.

-- Jeff

>=20
>=20
> Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15, 2014 1700-1900 =
UTC
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------
>=20
> Agenda is also available at:=20
> =
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/15/netconf/agenda/agenda-i=
nterim-2014-netconf-5=20
>=20
> - 5 min chair intro, scribe, agenda bashing
>  The note taking will be done on: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/netconf-z=20=

>=20
> Issue discussion and status check per WG item:
>=20
> - Call Home (Kent) (5min)
>  Currently no open issues.
>  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues=20
>=20
> - Server Model (Kent) (20min)
>  Currently 5 open issues.
>  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues
>=20
> - rfc5539bis (Juergen) (5min)
>  The two issues decided in IETF 91 are in preparation.
>=20
> - Restconf (Andy) (30min)
>  Currently 4 open issues.
>  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues=20
>=20
> - Zerotouch (Kent) (20min)
>  Currently 1 open issues.
>  https://github.com/netconf-wg/yang-patch/issues
>=20
> - I2RS Ephemeral state (Susan, Jeff) (30min)
>  Please provide slides before the meeting.
>=20
> - 5 min AOB other topics
>=20
> Best Regards,
> Mehmet  & Mahesh
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext IESG =
Secretary
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 10:05 PM
> To: IETF Announcement List
> Cc: netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: [Netconf] NETCONF WG Virtual Interim Meetings December 15, =
2014, and bi-weekly starting January 5, 2015
>=20
> The NETCONF WG will hold a series of virtual interim meetings =
beginning Monday, December 15, 2014.
>=20
> Meeting day: Mondays
> Time: 1800 CET
> Duration: 2 hours
>=20
> Dates: December 15, 2014 1-time
> and starting with: January 5, 2015 bi-weekly
> End date: March 16, 2015
>=20
> WebEx information:
>=20
> Meeting number: 640 672 878
> Meeting password: nc2015
> Audio connection:
> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
>=20
> Access code: 640 672 878
> Meeting link: =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2580594e0bc14b4b94f869a415ce437c=
=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


From nobody Mon Dec 15 14:21:13 2014
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
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On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
<repenno@cisco.com> wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> I personally think parsing paragraphs like this one is a bit tricky but i=
f
> that is what the WG prefers, fine by me.
>
> "   o  Using this TCP session, the NETCONF/RESTCONF server immediately
>       starts either the SSH-server or the TLS-server protocol, depending
>       on which port is connected.  The server MUST start the SSH-server
>       protocol when port PORT-X is connected or the TLS-server protocol
>       when either port PORT-Y or PORT-Z is connected.  The SSH-server
>       and TLS-server protocols are described by [RFC4253
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4253>] and [RFC5246
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246>]
>       respectively.=C2=B2
>
>

This could be split into 2 separate paragraphs.


> Thanks,

Andy

>
> On 12/15/14, 1:37 PM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
>><repenno@cisco.com> wrote:
>>> I think so. I understand the point the chair(?) made today on the call
>>>that
>>> more drafts require mode energy but the draft today is very difficult t=
o
>>> read.  Moreover, if as we start introducing words like MUST/SHOULD and
>>> Netconf/RESTconf have different levels of support then it would be
>>> impossible to follow.
>>
>>Why can't the text be expanded into 2 sentences where needed,
>>instead of 2 drafts?  Just use one RFC 2119 keyword per sentence.
>>
>>
>>Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Since we are talking about call home draft, I think it is okay for the
>>> client to identity the server using IP:port instead of just IP. One of
>>>the
>>> =C2=B3strategies=C2=B2 is for the server to use STUN/TURN, grab a IP:po=
rt and
>>>convey
>>> that info to the client.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
>>> Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM
>>> To: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
>>> Subject: [Netconf] call-home#6: Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF
>>>and
>>> SSH/TLS switches?
>>>
>>>
>>> This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues/6
>>>
>>> Essentially, after adding RESTCONF to the call-home draft, it seems tha=
t
>>> draft might be somewhat difficult to read, with all the
>>>NETCONF/RESTCONF and
>>> SSH/TLS switches in it.  Does anyone else think so?
>>>
>>> Unless there are any objections by 12/19/14, plan is to keep RESTCONF i=
n
>>> this draft as is.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kent
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netconf mailing list
>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>>
>


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 23:21:55 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
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On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 08:16:03PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> 
> This issue was discussed in today's virtual interim meeting:
> 
> 	https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/18
> 
> The change is already in the -05 update posted last Thursday and fully
> described by this check-in:
> 
> 	https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/commit/6a93885b23fcc9d88d4f8d33
> 363ae084c08fc8ae
> 
> Or more simply by:
> 
>     +  feature rfc6187 {
>     +    description
>     +      "The rfc6187 feature indicates that the NETCONF server supports
>     +       RFC 6187";
>     +    reference
>     +      "RFC 6187: X.509v3 Certificates for Secure Shell
> Authentication";
>     +  }
>

I would prefer a more self-explanatory feature name, e.g.,
ssh-x509-authentication or something like that.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: review of draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07.txt
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Missing is the alg used to calculate the fingerprint.  YANG module
ietf-x509-cert-to-name says:

  typedef tls-fingerprint {
    type yang:hex-string {
      pattern '([0-9a-fA-F]){2}(:([0-9a-fA-F]){2}){0,254}';
    }
    description
     "A fingerprint value that can be used to uniquely reference
      other data of potentially arbitrary length.

      An tls-fingerprint value is composed of a 1-octet hashing
      algorithm identifier followed by the fingerprint value.  The
      first octet value identifying the hashing algorithm is taken
      from the IANA TLS HashAlgorithm Registry (RFC 5246).  The
      remaining octets are filled using the results of the hashing
      algorithm.";
    reference "SNMP-TLS-TM-MIB.SnmpTLSFingerprint";
  }




In section 7, should the paragraph after 'F' should say something like "if
no viable username can be mapped, then the TLS session MUST be dropped"?



Suggestion, add a section somewhere like the following?

   How to configure a NETCONF server is outside the scope of this
   document, as implementations can support this protocol using
   proprietary configuration data models.  That said, a YANG
   model for configuring NETCONF over TLS is provided in
   [draft-ietf-netconf-server-model].




Nits, in section 5", s/presented/Presented/


Thanks,
Kent



On 12/11/14, 8:49 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
<internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration Working Group of
>the IETF.
>
>        Title           : Using the NETCONF Protocol over Transport Layer
>Security (TLS) with Mutual X.509 Authentication
>        Authors         : Mohamad Badra
>                          Alan Luchuk
>                          Juergen Schoenwaelder
>	Filename        : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07.txt
>	Pages           : 11
>	Date            : 2014-12-11
>
>Abstract:
>   The Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) provides mechanisms to
>   install, manipulate, and delete the configuration of network devices.
>   This document describes how to use the Transport Layer Security (TLS)
>   protocol with mutual X.509 authentication to secure the exchange of
>   NETCONF messages.  This revision of RFC 5539 documents the new
>   message framing used by NETCONF 1.1 and it obsoletes RFC 5539.
>
>
>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis/
>
>There's also a htmlized version available at:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07
>
>A diff from the previous version is available at:
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-rfc5539bis-07
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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Kent Watsen writes:
>https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/21

The issue is missing a description of the issue.

Thanks,
 Phil


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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 06:48:28 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
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On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 10:57:21PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> 
> 
> Missing is the alg used to calculate the fingerprint.  YANG module
> ietf-x509-cert-to-name says:
> 
>   typedef tls-fingerprint {
>     type yang:hex-string {
>       pattern '([0-9a-fA-F]){2}(:([0-9a-fA-F]){2}){0,254}';
>     }
>     description
>      "A fingerprint value that can be used to uniquely reference
>       other data of potentially arbitrary length.
> 
>       An tls-fingerprint value is composed of a 1-octet hashing
>       algorithm identifier followed by the fingerprint value.  The
>       first octet value identifying the hashing algorithm is taken
>       from the IANA TLS HashAlgorithm Registry (RFC 5246).  The
>       remaining octets are filled using the results of the hashing
>       algorithm.";
>     reference "SNMP-TLS-TM-MIB.SnmpTLSFingerprint";
>   }
>

Since we do not define how this function is configured and the
fingerprint matching is a pure local issue, I do not think we
need to detail this here.
 
> In section 7, should the paragraph after 'F' should say something like "if
> no viable username can be mapped, then the TLS session MUST be dropped"?

Yes. I have appended "If there are no further cert-to-name list
entries, the TLS session MUST be terminated.".
 
> Suggestion, add a section somewhere like the following?
> 
>    How to configure a NETCONF server is outside the scope of this
>    document, as implementations can support this protocol using
>    proprietary configuration data models.  That said, a YANG
>    model for configuring NETCONF over TLS is provided in
>    [draft-ietf-netconf-server-model].

I do not think this is needed. NC over SSH does not have this text
either. I want to keep this as short and independent as possible.

> Nits, in section 5", s/presented/Presented/

fixed

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #13: ietf-yang-library
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Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> There is no action to take on this issue.
> 
> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/13
> 
> The next revision of the RESTCONF draft will still
> contain this module.
> 
> Raise any objections on the mailing list.

If we are going to use this module as the basis for YANG 1.1
conformance (or at least YANG 1.1 optimized advertisement), I prefer
to move it to a separate document.


/martin


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On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> There is no action to take on this issue.
>>
>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/13
>>
>> The next revision of the RESTCONF draft will still
>> contain this module.
>>
>> Raise any objections on the mailing list.
>
> If we are going to use this module as the basis for YANG 1.1
> conformance (or at least YANG 1.1 optimized advertisement), I prefer
> to move it to a separate document.
>

I agree. So this issue is tied to NETMOD Y45.

>
> /martin


Andy


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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
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On 12/16/14, 10:14 AM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

>On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> There is no action to take on this issue.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/13
>>>
>>> The next revision of the RESTCONF draft will still
>>> contain this module.
>>>
>>> Raise any objections on the mailing list.
>>
>> If we are going to use this module as the basis for YANG 1.1
>> conformance (or at least YANG 1.1 optimized advertisement), I prefer
>> to move it to a separate document.
>>
>
>I agree. So this issue is tied to NETMOD Y45.


Right, this is what I meant in yesterday's meeting by there being a good
reason to having it in another draft.  The use of ietf-yang-library is not
specific to RESTCONF, as NETCONF servers can (should?) use it too.

BTW, maybe a different name would be more descriptive: ietf-yang-modules
or ietf-yang-conformance?


Thanks,
Kent


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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: [Netconf] minutes and slides for the I2RS interim
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The I2RS has held two interims during December to discuss use cases, yang
models for RIB and topology, and the I2RS requirements on protocol.  These
minutes of these meetings are attached. 

 

You can find slides and minutes for the December 11th, 2014 meeting at: 

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/11/i2rs/proceedings.html

 

You can find slides and minutes for the December 11th, 2014 meeting at: 

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/16/i2rs/proceedings.html

 

Please let us know if you have any questions we can answer regarding the
I2RS current status. 

 

Sue Hares  


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>The I2RS =
has held two interims during December to discuss use cases, yang models =
for RIB and topology, and the I2RS requirements on protocol.&nbsp; These =
minutes of these meetings are attached. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You can find =
slides and minutes for the December 11<sup>th</sup>, 2014 meeting at: =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/11/i2rs/proceedin=
gs.html">http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/11/i2rs/proceedi=
ngs.html</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>You can find slides and minutes for the December =
11<sup>th</sup>, 2014 meeting at: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/16/i2rs/proceedin=
gs.html">http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/16/i2rs/proceedi=
ngs.html</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Please let us know if you have any questions we can =
answer regarding the I2RS current status. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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I2RS interim, December 16, 2014.
10:00-11:40 ET

Attendees:
Hariharan Ananthakrishnan
Alia Atlas
Ignas Bagdonas
Nitin Bahadur
Lou Berger
Andy Bierman
Deborah Brungard
Alexander Clemm
Amit Dass
Dhruv Dhody
Jie Dong=20
Jan Medved
Jie Dong
Don Fedyk
Cary FitzGarald
Jeff Haas=20
Joel Halpern
Susan Hares=20
Ace Linden
Xufeng Liu
Jan Medved=20
Dan Romascanu
Ju=C3=ABrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder
Himanshu Shah
Robert Varga
Lixing Wang =20
Michael Wang
Kent Watsen
Qin (Bill) Wu=20


Agenda
 Discussion on I2RS RIB Info Drafts [10:00 - 10:30 (zctual)] discussing: =


1) Interaction between RIB Yang Model and draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg
2) Nexthop structures proposed in RIB Info Model  =
[draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-04]=20

 Discussion of I2RS topology drafts [10:30 - 11:15] =20
  Overview and PBR {Sue Hares] [10:30 - 10:35]
  Yang Model for Network Topologies:  [Alexander Clemm] [10:35-10:45]=20
   draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01.txt
   draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo
  =20
  Yang Model for L2 Topologies [Jie Dong]  [10:45 - 10:50] =20
    draft-dong-i2rs-yang-l2-network-topology=20
=20
  Yang Model for Service Topologies [Qin Wu/Sue Hares] [10:50 - 11:00]=20
	=
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-info-model-service-topo/=

   Discussion on topology drafts [10:35 - 10:45]=20
=09
Protocol Discussion: [11:05 - 11:30]  =20
1) Simple protocol option -  [Dean Bogdanovic]=20
2) Complex Protocol option - [Sue Hares]=20
3) pub-sub option [Alexander Clemm, Eric Voit]=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
I2RS Adoption calls in December-January=20
I2RS will make an adoption call for RIB Yang/IM model after 12/16/2014 =
meeting. =20

Topics for 1/8/2015 and 1/23/2015 I2RS interim: =20
  1) Protocol Requirements for I2RS=20
  2) Topology drafts   =20
  3) RIB Info drafts.=20
	 =20
1) Document status:=20
Traceability draft has been adopted.
We dovetail our Yang modules with netconf and netmod.=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D
2) Rib Info Yang model - Amit
[slides]
High level differences.=20
What are unique for i2rs?
I2RS is not covering the default rib model, compared to the netmod-cfg =
they do.
Using capabilities for tunnel encap types.
Propose add RPC from agent to client for route changes

Q: Juergen - why do we need rpc vs. notification?=20
Lixing: Example from BGP use case. =E2=80=A6
Sue: This is for pub-sub, for retrieving history. From BGP use cases.

Jan: Do we need both info and data model now?
Sue: Alia says one draft.
Alia: That=E2=80=99s up to WG.  IM could proceed separately from DM =
since we=E2=80=99re not yet rechartered for DM.

Jeff: Notification in I2RS. Does it also belong in netmod-cfg?
Amit: They should align. Sooner or later, we should come back and =
revisit it.
Alia: Amit and Lixing, very useful comparison vs. netmod rtg-cfg model. =
Thanks for doing it. =20
There=E2=80=99s a recent draft by Eric et al. and motivations for =
pub-sub.=20
Does it describe the rib model requirements?  Useful for i2rs to discuss =
and netconf to review.
Sue: See end presentation.

Nitin: Lots of questions raised. Is there a design team to resolve this?
Sue: Yes. We are taking volunteers for that team.
Nitin: Feel free to add me to it.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3) Protocol Independent (Topology) Data Models - Sue
[slides]

3.1 Contrast topology dependent vs. independent.
PBR - Sits underneath the rib list, above the BNP.
Default RIB? PBR needs a default RIB for failover.
We are only proposing groups, rules.
------

3.2 Network topology Models - Alex Clemm
[slides]

Represents both horizontal and vertical layering

Lou B: Will you be in Thursday=E2=80=99s TEAS interim?
Alex: Yes.
Lou: Will defer. Grappling with issue of control plane topo vs. data =
plane topology.  L3 IGPs they=E2=80=99re the same.  SDN, TE - =
they=E2=80=99re not necessarily the same.
Sue: PBR is a forwarding data plane focus. Qin will cover service =
topology and Jie will cover Layer 2.  Many people will join you on =
Thursday.
-------
3.3 Yang data model for L2 topology - Jie Dong
[slides]

Jeff: Your model includes layer 2 physical info (vlan etc.) Does this =
belong in our I2RS stuff? Alex=E2=80=99s draft lets you look between =
layers. Do we want this level of detail in our model?
Jie: Topo use case draft suggests we want to gather the sum of the info =
from across the network.  What about layer 3/2/1? Agree it needs =
discussion.
Alex: Reasonable to do this.  Fine line between abstraction model vs. =
other info, but not specific to topology.  Discuss on case by case =
basis. If not tied to topology properties, should go to inventory.
Jie: Agreed.
Sue: As Lou put it we have forwarding layer at l2 and control plane at =
l2.  Alex, when you speak at abstract, which do you mean?
Alex: Both.  Even with service.
Jeff: If we allow write, then the l2 config details matter.
Sue: Need active discussions on mail list. Tie into use case.

3.4 Service Topology Info Model - Qin Wu and Sue Hares=20
[slides]

Joel: *Who* knows the info needed to populate this model? Service =
topology needs to be more than just tunnels.
Sue: Abstract topology to lay on top of network topology.  We=E2=80=99re =
describing this using UML.
Joel: Starting to cover my questions. Let=E2=80=99s keep going.

Lou: I think you made an important clarification. You mean TEAS requests =
to I2RS.

Juergen: Concerned with restconf extensions and netconf extensions being =
called out in UML. They should work in both.
Sue: Thanks for correction, will fix in next rev.

[slides]
Sue: Note how this ties back to Alex=E2=80=99s model.  Additional =
questions?

Lou: Document has TE data. This doesn=E2=80=99t get covered in these =
slides. Is that still there?
Sue: We had removed it. Expect to harmonize with Alex.
Lou: Usage of TE is not the normal use of it. Perhaps better term, like =
NAT load balancer, etc.=20
     TED is different than normal usage of TED. =20
Sue: I think you=E2=80=99re correct.  We=E2=80=99ll update it, happy to =
take further feedback.

Don Fedyk: There is a lot more commonality in models in layer 3 models =
and others.=20
They could be harmonize a bit more.
Jeff: What is the additional harmonization=20
My point was the Yang Model for L3 (as presented) seemed to outline L3, =
Service and Optical and
missed L2 totally.  (Not saying this is one document but one =
architecture as presented).
Then the L2 Presentation had some L2 but missed several L2 capabilities. =
(VPLS, EVPN, VXLAN, PBB etc.)=20
If you look at this more generically each layer (l3,l2,l1) has:=20
Data path, Tunneling/Multiplexor/Virtual network, Topology, Topology =
data base, TE extensions,=20
Control Plane.  Each layer can and may use IS-IS or OSPF (and even BGP) =
for some address
distribution VPN information, connection coordination, TE information, =
within the context
of an Instance/VPN. Each layer can and may offer a service, p2p, p2mp, =
mp2mp,(some type of
persistent connection or set of connections that may have their own =
resiliency mechanisms)
at the layer or up to a higher layer.=20
Layers can be skipped and upper layers may be unaware of lower layers.=20
Lou Berger (from email response): My comment on control plane vs data =
plane is very much in
line with this comment.  And Don has begun some of the discussion I was =
hoping to talk a bit
more about in Thursday's TEAS interim. (At least the TE aspects, as well =
as the possible
formal representation of control plane separately from data plane.)

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94

Subscribing to datastore push updates - Alex Clemm
[slides]
XXX - transport and subscription decoupling

=E2=80=94

Simple vs. Complex I2RS - Dean Bogdanovich and Sue (via mailing list)
[slides]

Joel: This was discussed in WG. Defining granularity at which we =
conflict=20
should be in model.  Not sure what we=E2=80=99re discussing here.
Sue: Trying to come to some conclusion about ephemeral database from =
ietf-91.
Dean Bogdanovic thought there might be a different way to look at it.
Joel: I don=E2=80=99t think these things are really primitives. =
We=E2=80=99re only interacting
with some properties of the interface.  Same for route - only changing =
some property.
Jeff: Example of route, ownership is internal.
Joel: Correct myself from route vs. route-table. Route-table handles =
that arbitration.
Jeff: Russ White basically says just interact with routing table, it is =
much simpler.
Joel: Have discussed with Russ - who does not believe we have covered =
the scope properly.
Sue: Agree that things are complex, like next hops, recursive nexthops.  =
Let us have more
of this discussion on the mail list. =20
RFC 6095 may help here, per netconf folk.
Don: Distinction is based on ability override something in config vs. =
the ownership of that=20
thing.  Objects that are simple can be easily made to override some =
properties.  Ownership
is still in config. Only need this relationship if config is involved.
Jeff: Had presented this override picture at last ietf. Covered by =
option 4 =E2=80=9Cpanes of glass model=E2=80=9D.
Sue: need to continue this on mailing list.  Put more questions out on =
list.  Need to pick=20
this up for Jan 8 meeting.  We had hoped this discussin would clarify =
things, but=20
we need to go a few more rounds.   
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I2RS interim meeting December 11, 2014.  Chairs Sue Hares, Jeffrey Haas.
10:00-11:00 ET


Attendees:
Jeff, Sue, Alia
Amit Dass
Dhruv Dhoty
Hariharan Anathakakrishnan
Igneous Bagdonas
Lixing Wang
Juergen Schoenwaelder
Alexander Clemm
Cary FitzGerald
Dean Bogdanovich
Don Fedyk
Yael Frank
Zafar Ali

Status
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
RIB model looking for design team members.  Currently, Amit and Lixing.

Use case summary
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Dean: The main issue with the protocol selection was does I2rs want to =
talk directly
to daemons or via configuration? Do we want to focus on managing =
primitives such as routes,
interfaces, etc. or do we want to manage more complex objects such as =
VPNs (l3vpn, l2vpn, etc.) =20
If we can figure out what we want to do, it will make selecting protocol =
behaviors a bit easier.
Maybe even outside of the IETF since there already exist some solutions. =
=20
What do we want to enable through the agent?  E.g. Apache Thrift is an =
interesting protocol=20
if we are dealing with primitives.

Sue: Use cases have both.  E.g. virtual topology.  Can these be done =
with just primitives? =20
One option is we can take a protocol selection that works for just the =
primitives, but we know
that BGP is something that people want to do and BGP cannot be solved =
with just primitives.

[slide Virtual topology cases]
25 reqs. that are in-charter. =20

[slide Discussion questions]
Is it okay to just use primitives or do we need complex objects?
Dean: If we do not want to support bgp vpns, only need primitives. =20
Ignas: One of the important thing is transactions.  If we have both, =
there is a lot of flexibility. =20
If transactions are not in protocol level but are in client agent =
interaction or some other entity,=20
then we have to worry about deterministic issues.
Jeff: Speed may require two distinct mechanisms.
Ignas: Speed? Possible. Depends on use case. Maybe makes sense.
Alia: In architecture, we do not have the idea of transactions.  You may =
have multiple
operations in single exchange with agent.  Trying to add transaction =
complexity will rat-hole us.
The concept of going to two mechanisms if the more complex use cases =
sounds much better than trying
to push more complexity into the simpler use cases. =20
Jeff: Getting state out of the system is also important.
Dean: This might push us into duplicating cases already elsewhere?  If =
you can already do complex stuff
via configuration - e.g. l3vpn - many components, each particular daemon =
has work to do.=20
If we can do it using primitives as well, but exposing those interfaces =
adds complexity. =20
Know from two vendors that we have different approaches; this would lead =
to vendor specific issues. =20
Sue: Your suggestion is we go through config process for everything or =
complex?
Dean: Primitives should go through daemons - [it is] faster. But then =
you limit flexibility.
Complex always should go through config; already a solved problem.  What =
is open? Do we want to have
two different ways to do this?
Jeff: Simple, complex, issues may have protocol impacts.  See discussion =
about netconf vs. restconf.
Sue: Dean, you know about this in thrift?
Dean: Yes, have done some implementation.
Sue: We should split this into simple or complex.  Next week, let =
discuss having the protocol split-up
between complex and simple.=20
Dean: I=E2=80=99ve already done that split up, can send to list.
Sue: Want to focus on protocol independent items and topology.  =
Alexander, could you do the analysis
on your topology items?
Alexander: Ok I can present that.
Jeff: IETF session broke things down into interactions with config state =
vs. i2rs injected state.
This discussion clarified we need to further break this down to simple =
vs. complex.

Rib Info Models=E2=80=A6
[slides]

Nitin and Sriganesh are in Asia and don=E2=80=99t think they can =
present. They=E2=80=99ll talk info model next week.

RIB yang model
[technical issues with Amit and Lixing presenting=E2=80=A6]
Jeff: How to do the multiple encaps.  Is this a good idea?
Amit: Good idea, best idea to date? =20
Jeff: Overlap with rtg-cfg?
Amit: Not yet.=20
Hari: I did some of this.  Collaborating with Lada.  Will work with =
Amit.  There is some confusion
about who is the derived model of whom.=20
Dean: Many discussions about rtg-cfg model. When we started modeling =
other protocols such as ospf,
we realized we could not do that work yet due to inconsistencies in =
rtg-cfg.  IMO, should be used
as base for all rtg-cfg models.
Jeff: Motivation for asking is overlap with regard to complex config vs. =
primitives.
Hari: Should be complementing?
Sue: For next week, figure out how this relates to rtg-cfg.
Amit will come back with that information to the next interim.=20
Sue: let=E2=80=99s talk about this on list. Can you drive it Dean, Amit, =
Lixing? Alex, for your model?
Jeff: Juergen general recursion for 1.1, 2.0?
Juergen: 1.1, no. 2.0 no clue.
Jeff: Raise on netmod mailing list?
Juergen: yes.=20
Jeff: Will raise on netmod.

EOF.


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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
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Hi Juergen,

>>Or more simply by:
>>=20
>>     +  feature rfc6187 {
>>     +    description
>>     +      "The rfc6187 feature indicates that the NETCONF server
>>supports
>>     +       RFC 6187";
>>     +    reference
>>     +      "RFC 6187: X.509v3 Certificates for Secure Shell
>>
>I would prefer a more self-explanatory feature name, e.g.,
>ssh-x509-authentication or something like that.


"ssh-x509-certs" would be more accurate, and shorter too.  Other feature
names are:

 * session-options
 * ssh
 * tls
 * listen
 * call-home

They're all pretty small, mostly one word.  I wish "session-options" could
be smaller...


Kent



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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
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On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 05:07:15PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> 
> I wish "session-options" could be smaller...
>

Are there implementations that do not have these timeouts? That is,
are there servers that wait forever if a client connects and simply
does nothing?

I understand that making everything optional features is great because
then there is not much left to implement but then if almost everybody
implements a certain feature, it might be easier to simply make things
mandatory.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>


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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
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>Are there implementations that do not have these timeouts? That is,
>are there servers that wait forever if a client connects and simply
>does nothing?
>
>I understand that making everything optional features is great because
>then there is not much left to implement but then if almost everybody
>implements a certain feature, it might be easier to simply make things
>mandatory.


So this is what issue #21 is about:
https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/21

I agree that it seems that servers would always implement these timeouts
and thus having no if-feature statement would be OK.  It is what I had
originally after all.  But the issue was raise at the IETF 91 meeting and
is now being confirmed on the list (see email with subject "server-model
#21: Add a feature around the global-params section").  So far there has
been no response to that email, though I think you have just now raise
some skepticism towards needing to do it.

Kent


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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
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Cc: NetConf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] server-model #18: how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
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On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Are there implementations that do not have these timeouts? That is,
>>are there servers that wait forever if a client connects and simply
>>does nothing?
>>
>>I understand that making everything optional features is great because
>>then there is not much left to implement but then if almost everybody
>>implements a certain feature, it might be easier to simply make things
>>mandatory.
>
>
> So this is what issue #21 is about:
> https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues/21
>

The comment cited in the issue tracker does not give a reason
why servers should not have to implement these timeouts.

> I agree that it seems that servers would always implement these timeouts
> and thus having no if-feature statement would be OK.  It is what I had
> originally after all.  But the issue was raise at the IETF 91 meeting and
> is now being confirmed on the list (see email with subject "server-model
> #21: Add a feature around the global-params section").  So far there has
> been no response to that email, though I think you have just now raise
> some skepticism towards needing to do it.

We should always justify YANG features wrt/ large resource requirement
or related to an optional protocol, etc.  If we do not think it is an
implementation
burden then make it part of the base module.  More importantly, if lack
of implementation can disrupt operations, then it has to be part of the base
module.

In this case, lack of timeouts can disrupt the server if there is a maximum
number of sessions allowed.  Without timeouts, some app can intentionally
or accidentally lock out other apps by using up all the allowed admin sessions.



>
> Kent


Andy

>
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-01
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On 12/10/14, 3:40 AM, "Hannes Tschofenig" <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
wrote:

>Hi Kent,
>
>thanks for the quick response.
>
>Let me try to describe a minimalistic approach that does not cover the
>case of learning something via DHCP and that does not delegate signing
>authority to someone else.
>
>A device is configured with a certificate (such as [Std-802.1AR-2009]),

Yes, all proposals have this in common



>the trust anchor of the manufacturer

What is this trust anchor used for?



> and the URL of a Configuration
>Server. These are provided by the manufacturer of the device. You don't
>even need to sign it since it is already on the device anyway.
>
>This information is then enough to let this device connect to the
>configuration server, use TLS to authenticate that server, and to get
>whatever information it needs from there.

This part sounds exactly like the current proposal, where the device is
able to securely connect to a list of URLs, configured at the time the
device was manufactured.  One difference that I don't see in your proposal
is a need to ensure that the device only downloads information unique to
it.   The current draft strives to ensure that only the true owner(s) of a
device can configure this information.  This is considered critical for
the security of the solution.  The question is if manufacturers can create
a lookup service, something to test if a unique identifier (e.g., serial
number) belongs to a given owner (e.g., username + password or key).  Very
difficult for many sales channels, but not difficult if customers wanting
the service must go thru a vendor-approaved sales point.

I still like the idea, from last summer, of letting physical presence
eliminate the need for a device to assert the security of the information.
 Where physical presence could be because the installer plugged a USB
flash drive into the device, near-field communication, or a link-local
address.  I know it introduces an attack vector, but it seems to me that
if a person is already able to get that level of physical presence, then
there are bigger problems to worry about.



Thanks,
Kent



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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
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Subject: [Netconf] zerotouch-02 configuration server issues
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Hi,

I have some concerns about interoperability for zerotouch.
The configuration server described in sec. 2 is going to be
an important system component if it is successfully standardized.
It could be useful for constrained devices as well. (e.g. using CoMI).

I do not like the XSD for the configlet.
It reminds me why we invented YANG in the first place.
(Oh yeah, XSD is unreadable. Almost forgot  ;-)

The configlets are completely opaque, except there are 2 header fields
"unique-identifier" and "software-version".  There is nothing identifying
the configuration blob.  I think "configuration-identifier" and
"configuration-version" fields are also needed.

I would prefer a more direct mapping to YANG for the "configuration" element.
It should be possible to have a "vendor-opaque" section,
but it would be nice to know if subtrees in the configlet
actually show up in the running config after booting.
The description in the XSD implies that, but nothing normative.


Andy


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Subject: [Netconf] Minutes from NETCONF Virtual Meeting Monday, December 15, 2014
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Dear NETCONF WG,

Attached are the minutes from the NETCONF virtual meeting held on =
Monday, December 15, 2014.
As is the case with all physical and virtual WG meetings the issue =
discussed in the meetings needs to be verified on the maillist.=20

All:=20
Please provide your comments and feedback to the maillist concerning the =
minutes and conclusions from the virtual meeting.
If there is no objection to the minutes or conclusions, the draft =
authors are going to act as discussed.

Detailed information on the issue discussion is available on netconf-wg =
github:
https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues and
https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues=20
https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues=20

If there are no change requests from the attendees, the minutes below =
will be sent to proceedings@ietf.org on December 26, 2014. (please send =
your request to the co-chairs).

PS: The next virtual meeting will be on January 5, 2015 at 1700 UTC.

Regards,

Mehmet & Mahesh








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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Dear NETCONF WG,<br class=3D""><div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Attached are the minutes from the NETCONF virtual meeting =
held on Monday, December 15, 2014.<br class=3D"">As is the case with all =
physical and virtual WG meetings the issue discussed in the meetings =
needs to be verified on the maillist. <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">All: =
<br class=3D"">Please provide your comments and feedback to the maillist =
concerning the minutes and conclusions from the virtual meeting.<br =
class=3D"">If there is no objection to the minutes or conclusions, the =
draft authors are going to act as discussed.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Detailed information on the issue discussion is available on =
netconf-wg github:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues</a> and<br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues</a> <br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues</a> <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">If there are no change requests from the =
attendees, the minutes below will be sent to <a =
href=3D"mailto:proceedings@ietf.org" class=3D"">proceedings@ietf.org</a> =
on December 26, 2014. (please send your request to the co-chairs).<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">PS: The next virtual meeting will be on =
January 5, 2015 at 1700 UTC.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">Mehmet &amp; =
Mahesh</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_1E77168D-B88B-43B6-AF4D-745C6677DF63
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Here are the minutes of the NETCONF Virtual Meeting held on December 15, =
2014

Agenda of the virtual interim meeting on December 15,2014 1700-1900 UTC=0D=

=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------=0D
 =0D
Agenda is also available at: =0D
=
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/12/15/netconf/agenda/agenda-i=
nterim-2014-netconf-5=0D
 =0D
- 5 min chair intro, scribe, agenda bashing=0D
  The note takingwill be done on: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/netconf-z=0D=

 =0D
Issue discussion and status check per WG item:=0D
 =0D
- Call Home (Kent) (5min)=0D
  Currently no openissues.=0D
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/call-home/issues=0D
 =0D
- Server Model (Kent) (20min)=0D
  Currently 5 openissues.=0D
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/server-model/issues=0D
 =0D
- rfc5539bis (Juergen) (5min)=0D
  The two issues decided in IETF 91 are in preparation.=0D
 =0D
- Restconf (Andy) (30min)=0D
  Currently 4 openissues.=0D
  See https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues=0D
 =0D
- Zerotouch (Kent) (20min)=0D
  Currently 1 openissues.=0D
  https://github.com/netconf-wg/yang-patch/issues=0D
 =0D
- I2RS Ephemeral state (Susan, Jeff) (30min)=0D
  Please provideslides before the meeting.=0D
 =0D
- 5 min AOB other topics=0D
=0D
Attendees:=0D
    - Mehmet Ersue=0D
    - Mahesh Jethanandani=0D
    - Kent Watsen=0D
    - Lada Lhotka=0D
    - Juergen Schoenwaelder=0D
    - Hannes Tschofenig=0D
    - Alex Kolchinsky=0D
    - Alan Luchuk=0D
    - Reinaldo Penno=0D
    - Ignas Bagdonas=0D
    - Susan Hares=0D
    - Alberto Gonzales (presented on I2RS draft)=0D
    - Andy Bierman=0D

Call Home Draft:
Three open issues
#8 Add RFC-Editor instructions for removing XXXX and Port-X placeholders
   Mehmet added instructions on how to update the IANA section. No WG =
consensus needed.
   Issue can be closed after updating and posting of the draft.
#7 Remove the "FIXME" in section 1.3 (Applicability Statement)
   Last Note from Kent indicates there is a dependency on RESTCONF draft =
update.
   No WG consensus needed. Kent to update the issue and the draft??
#6 Too busy with all the NETCONF/RESTCONF and SSH/TLS switches?
   Latest update indicates (and reflects in the notes below) that few =
people have
   read the draft. The WG felt it would be better to keep it as one and =
Andy suggested
   that it would be better to split paragraphs if necessary rather than =
split the
   draft. Kent to push on the issue of whether this should be one or two
   (with RESTCONF Call Home being the second draft) on the mailing list.

Server Model Draft:
Four open issues:
#26 fix default listen port for RESTCONF server
    Kent asked the question of whether 443 is the default port for =
RESTCONF.
    Juergen was not on the meeting (at the time the draft was being =
discussed) to
    comment on e-mail he had sent to the mailing list??
#24 add NACM statement
    Discussed during virtual interim meeting on Dec 15. Hannes =
Tschofenig agreed that=20
    client-trust-certs are essentially the same as a password and hence =
should be treated=20
    the same. Suggestion is to post concrete proposal to list for =
review.
#21 Add a feature around the global-params section
    Discussed during virtual interim meeting on Dec 15. Suggestion is to =
post a link to=20
    change in text to list for review with a 1-week timeout limit.
#18 how to configure trust-anchors for SSH X.509-based client certs?
    Discussed during virtual interim meeting on Dec 15. Suggestion is to =
post a link to=20
    change in text to list for review with a 1-week timeout limit.

RFC5539bis:
Juergen was not on the call (at the time) to discuss the draft.

RESTCONF draft:
9 open issues
Too many issues and comments to paste here. Please refer to GitHub for =
details here.
https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues?q=3Dis%3Aopen+is%3Aissue

Zero Touch draft:
One open issue
#5 Validate if Vendors can support owner-validation service
   Discussed during virtual interim meeting on Dec 15. Request is for =
members to ask their=20
   constituent companies if they're able to support an =
owner-verification service. Email=20
   with request to be sent to list.

i2rs discussion:

Alberto presented pub/sub draft.

Jeff Hass was not able to attend the meeting. Susan joined and gave an =
update on the e-mail discussion, but the discussion was deferred till =
Jeff can join in the next meeting.

And here are the meeting minutes:=0D
[mj] Started discussion on Call Home draft=0D
[mj] 3 open issues and 4 closed issues=0D
[mj] First closed issues. Started with Add TLS transport. Very old =
issue.=0D
[mj] WG consensus granted.=0D
[mj] Reverse SSH renamed to Call Home.=0D
[mj] No objection from the chairs. But the objection has to be reflected =
on the mailing list. This is a general guidance.=0D
[mj] Andy commented on the process being tedious. Mehmet suggested that =
mailing list consensus can be skipped if draft is updated, posted on the =
mailing list and consensus achieved.=0D
[mj] Kent commented on editorial comments. Mehmet suggested that it =
should have the same approach.=0D
[mj] Discussing open issues now.=0D
[mj] Proposal to have a combined NETCONF and RESTCONF draft for =
call-home. No objections. Andy says he has read the latest version.=0D
[mj] Now discussing server-model.=0D
[mj] Add support for RESTCONF (#10) was discussed in 91 and so was most =
of the cases with other issues.=0D
[mj] Moved two of the issues out of closed to open issues.=0D
[mj] #21 Add a feature around the global-params section. Kent has a =
proposed solution. Mehmet suggested that the solution be posted on the =
mailing list and give a week deadline.=0D
#18 how to configure trust-anchors. Not captured by AI in 91. Issue with =
SSH and X.509 based client certs. NETCONF has to validate the SSH X.509 =
client certificates. TLS has client-auth and the tree under it. It has =
been replciated to SSH section.=0D
Alan seconds the motion.=0D
#24 Add NACM statement. Was not discussed in 91. New issue. When =
ietf-tls-* was taken out had to put if statements around NACM statements =
to put protections around it. Hannes agreed.If the user is authenticated =
then it is authorized. No solution as yet.=0D
#28 What is the RESTCONF server port? It is not set to 443.=0D
TLS. Juergen is not in the meeting. Juergen had asked for comments on =
the mailing list. Mehmet will call out on the mailing list.=0D
Discussing RESTCONF draft now. =0D
7 open and 9 closed issues. #1 select parameter. Andy will send =
something to the mailing list and not in -04 draft. Issue will be =
reopened.=0D
#2 NETCONF-state support. Remove references to session. Support for S0. =
Mail to the maillist has been sent.=0D
#3 collection resources. Authors suggest moving it to a new draft. No =
consensus on the solution and the draft is incomplete. Issues with =
spinning out into a new draft. Mehmet feels it should be in one draft. =
Wants more discussion before deciding whether to split out. AI for =
Mehmet to send out on the mailing list. Alan thinks it should be split. =
Andy points out that the collection is completely optional and is =
holding up the draft. Alex has updated the GitHub with his changes. =
Asked to post on the mailing list.=0D
#4 default handling. Confirming what was discussed in 91. =0D
#9 Still open. Kent is working on text.=0D
#13 ietf-yang-library. No change. Kent suggests taking it to the mailing =
list.=0D
#14 define module-name prefixing rules. Used by Kent for tracking??=0D
#15 use of groupings in ietf-restconf. Lada raised issue with the =
proposed solution S2-B. No agreement on the solution. Namespace used is =
different per proposal. Should be taken to the mailing list. Chair will =
decide as a last resort. Kent tried using grouping in zero-touch and =
received similar comments.=0D
#16 content parameters. Should be made mandatory. Will be posted to the =
list.=0D
yang-patch draft being discussed now.=0D
Two open issues. On the agenda because of RESTCONF. Value node for XML =
can be used as leaf??. Andy to take it to the mailing list. =0D
Structure of dit value anyxml. Will take it to the mailing list.=0D
#2 Parsing QNames in value parameter anyxml. No solution in YANG 1.0. =
Address in YANG 1.1? Lada agrees.=0D
[me] This draft will be published before YANG 1.1. S we need a solution =
for this draft.=0D
Kent suggests treating it as a blob. Andy thinks you lose information =
that way. Andy to take it to the mailing list.=0D
Discussing Zero Touch draft now.=0D
Closed issues before 91. Only one open issue. Validate if Vendors can =
support owner-validation service. Vendors need to come up with =
owner-validation service. Need to go to a configlit service. The service =
needs to validate the vendor is the owner. Is it implementable with =
partners? Kent to ask how Juniper would implement it. Asks other vendors =
to do the same. Cisco, Ericsson and Ciena are looking into using =
zero-touch. Mehmet has asked anima WG for placing requirements to =
NETCONF. Hannes agrees that it should be resolved between the WGs. =0D
Mehmet suggest LC on call-home and server-model. Kent says server-model =
has normative references to other drafts. Mehmet says cannot be =
published but we can proceed with LC. Restconf and yang-patch to follow. =
Kent to publish next version on call-home and server-model this week. =
Chairs to wait till January to ask for LC.=0D
Alberto Gonzales presents on pub/sub model requirements.=0D
Suggests a push model vs. poll based. i2rs needs a more robust model. =
Support for different transports. Starting with Netconf based on i2rs =
requirements. Kent suggests moving it to Netconf from Netmod. Mehmet =
suggests that the requirement be agreed in i2rs before coming to =
Netconf. Andy suggests that operation data changes frequently so it =
should be used carefully in the pub/sub model. How will it be throttled? =
AI for all. Please provide comments.=0D
[ME] I2RS Two protocols possibly needed - a simple and complex. Simple =
one focused on high-rate read operations, complex for write operations. =0D=

Hannes discussing zero-touch while we wait for Susan to join the meeting =
to discuss i2rs ephemeral model. Two components. Discovering being one =
of them. Uses the trust cerficate to validate the vendor. Two different =
identities. Configuration server and configuration signer. It is the =
latter that Kent is concerned about.=0D
Susan has joined the call. But Jeff is still missing. Susan does not =
have the slides for discussion. Susan is providing update. Says i2rs is =
still discussing between simple and complex solution. Suggest folks join =
1/2 hr.  into the meeting. Susan reading the questions raised by Jeff on =
the mailing list.=0D
i2rs is placing a requirement on NETCONF with the question that Jeff has =
raised on the mailing with recursive YANG modelling. RFC 6095 does not =
have support for what i2rs is asking for in YANG 1.0 and is not on the =
agenda for 1.1 but can be put there if it is brought up. Susan/Jeff to =
articulate the requirement to Netconf WG.=0D
Mehmet suggest continue discussion on January 5 when the next Netconf =
virtual meeting happens.=20=

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From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] zerotouch-02 configuration server issues
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/j5wTmON0_PpdWR-EzRnv5ohg3Qo
Subject: Re: [Netconf] zerotouch-02 configuration server issues
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Hi Andy,



>The configuration server described in sec. 2 is going to be
>an important system component if it is successfully standardized.

True.



>I do not like the XSD for the configlet.
>It reminds me why we invented YANG in the first place.
>(Oh yeah, XSD is unreadable. Almost forgot  ;-)

We had YANG in the -00 version of this draft, it changed to XSD in the
 -01 version.  Btw, -02 hasn't been posted yet, though you reference it
in the subject line.

In addition to side-stepping the whole debate regarding the use of a YANG
"container", the draft simultaneously moved to definitively using XML, due
to the use of the XMLSIG and XMLENC standards.  Do you think this is too
onerous?  Should we track this as an issue?



>The configlets are completely opaque, except there are 2 header fields
>"unique-identifier" and "software-version".  There is nothing identifying
>the configuration blob.  I think "configuration-identifier" and
>"configuration-version" fields are also needed.
>
>I would prefer a more direct mapping to YANG for the "configuration"
>element.
>It should be possible to have a "vendor-opaque" section,
>but it would be nice to know if subtrees in the configlet
>actually show up in the running config after booting.
>The description in the XSD implies that, but nothing normative.

We had something like this back in Feb when the draft was still an I.D.
[1].   See how the YANG imports "ietf-netconf-server" and copies selected
parts of the "ietf-system" module?  But you're saying that it's OK for
there to be vendor-opqaue values - so do you want the draft to say the
content of the Configlet MUST/SHOULD have a configuration that maps to
these ietf-netconf-server and ietf-system models?

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netconf-zerotouch-01



Thanks,
Kent



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Subject: Re: [Netconf] zerotouch-02 configuration server issues
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On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
>>The configuration server described in sec. 2 is going to be
>>an important system component if it is successfully standardized.
>
> True.
>
>
>
>>I do not like the XSD for the configlet.
>>It reminds me why we invented YANG in the first place.
>>(Oh yeah, XSD is unreadable. Almost forgot  ;-)
>
> We had YANG in the -00 version of this draft, it changed to XSD in the
>  -01 version.  Btw, -02 hasn't been posted yet, though you reference it
> in the subject line.
>

typo on my part.


> In addition to side-stepping the whole debate regarding the use of a YANG
> "container", the draft simultaneously moved to definitively using XML, due
> to the use of the XMLSIG and XMLENC standards.  Do you think this is too
> onerous?  Should we track this as an issue?
>
>

I guess XSD is OK.  It avoids the YANG data structure controversy an
 excludes JSON (which nay be a new controversy ;-)


>
>>The configlets are completely opaque, except there are 2 header fields
>>"unique-identifier" and "software-version".  There is nothing identifying
>>the configuration blob.  I think "configuration-identifier" and
>>"configuration-version" fields are also needed.
>>


Do you agree these extra fields are useful?
IMO they could be optional.

Some use cases:
  - the identified device may have different config setups, based
    on factors such as licenses, device capabilities, etc. so
    "config-identifier" could identify the config variant
 - cache IDs such as "config-id" (defined in NETCONF-EX) could be mapped
   to the "config-version" field, or a revision-date could be used instead.


>>I would prefer a more direct mapping to YANG for the "configuration"
>>element.
>>It should be possible to have a "vendor-opaque" section,
>>but it would be nice to know if subtrees in the configlet
>>actually show up in the running config after booting.
>>The description in the XSD implies that, but nothing normative.
>
> We had something like this back in Feb when the draft was still an I.D.
> [1].   See how the YANG imports "ietf-netconf-server" and copies selected
> parts of the "ietf-system" module?  But you're saying that it's OK for
> there to be vendor-opqaue values - so do you want the draft to say the
> content of the Configlet MUST/SHOULD have a configuration that maps to
> these ietf-netconf-server and ietf-system models?
>



I would prefer if the configuration element was equivalent to
the <config> element in a <copy-config> operation.
There is no constraint on what YANG modules are present.
Whatever config is present must match YANG module schema
supported by the server.

I do not know if there is a need for additional XML in the configlet
that does not map to any advertised YANG module.  Phil mentioned
a need for this sort of bootstrap data at IETF #91.  This should
go in a different element within the configlet.


> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netconf-zerotouch-01
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>
>



Andy


From nobody Sun Dec 21 19:36:27 2014
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From: Rohit R Ranade <rohitrranade@huawei.com>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Notification updation RFC 5277
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Hello,

RFC 5277 clearly states that subscriptions cannot be updated. Is there some=
 reason for it ? I have a scenario, where subscriptions can get added and d=
eleted.
Is there some mechanism to update subscription ?

With Regards,
Rohit

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">RFC 5277 clearly states that subscriptions cannot be=
 updated. Is there some reason for it ? I have a scenario, where subscripti=
ons can get added and deleted.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is there some mechanism to update subscription ?<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rohit<o:p></o:p></p>
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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:09:10 -0800
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
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Cc: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] RESTCONF #15: usage of groupings
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Hi,

I updated the issue tracker with the concrete proposal for
ietf-restconf groupings.

https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15

I forgot to mention that ietf-yang-patch.yang already uses the "errors" gro=
uping
within the rpc output parameters, so removing it will break YANG Patch.

Andy


On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote=
:
>>> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 11 Dec 2014, at 12:49, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>>>> >> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Hi,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> A new issue has been added to the tracker:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/15
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> There are 3 solutions mentioned.
>>>> >>> The default solution is S1, which will be implemented
>>>> >>> unless there is WG consensus demonstrated to
>>>> >>> do something else.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The biggest problem with S1 is that it may mislead readers into
>>>> >> thinking: "Hey, now I understand how namespaces work in groupings!"
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I also don't like the idea of defining an ad hoc extension.
>>>> >
>>>> > I disagree.  I think an extension is the best solution in this case.
>>>> > However, we can use a different name than 'structure'.  'structure'
>>>> > was originally my proposal for a built-in statement (YANG 1.1) for
>>>> > this purpose.  We can call it 'restconf-structure' or 'restconf-data=
'
>>>> > or something.
>>>>
>>>> So another document that wants to do the same should define its own ad
>>>> hoc extension? Or import the ietf-restconf module?
>>>
>>> Suppose we make a new document that defines a new RESTCONF resource
>>> type, and we need a structure for it, then that document would import
>>> and use 'restconf-structure'.
>>>
>>>> >> If we want
>>>> >> to turn YANG into a general schema language, it should be done
>>>> >> properly.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think the simplest solution would be to remove the groupings and
>>>> >> have
>>>> >> "errors", "restconf", "collection" and "notification" as top-level
>>>> >> containers. The namespace assignment then follows YANG rules.
>>>> >
>>>> > This is also _very_ misleading, b/c then it looks like a normal conf=
ig
>>>> > or state module, which one would expect a server to implement in the
>>>> > normal way.
>>>>
>>>> What makes the solutions with groupings or extensions different?
>>>
>>> I agree that groupings are misleading.  But using an extension would
>>> be different, b/c the extension defines the semantics - this is not
>>> config or oper state, but something else.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not understand why these are special or misleading groupings.
>> I cannot find any text in any RFC that says a YANG module with
>> just groupings in it is invalid, improper, or even discouraged.
>>
>> I am already using 1 of these groupings in a logging model.
>> Please explain why these are special groupings that cannot
>> be used in a normal data model in another module.
>>
>> That is why I prefer solution S2-B
>>
>>   rc:structure errors {
>>      uses errors;
>>   }
>>
>> This assigns a module-name and a namespace and does not
>> preclude re-usage of the data within a larger data structure.
>
> I don't want to block the resolution of this issue, so I propose that you
> write a concrete definition of the extension, and I will then comment on
> that.
>
> Lada
>
>>
>>
>>>> In
>>>> any case, the module description has to state very clearly that it is
>>>> a strawman module that=E2=80=99s not supposed to be used in the normal
>>>> NETCONF/RESTCONF way. But if you above that deviate from YANG
>>>> semantics, as the groupings do, you cannot even use standard YANG
>>>> tools because they would produce wrong results.
>>>>
>>>> If the module is as I proposed, I can still use pyang for generating
>>>> correct DSDL schemas, XML-JSON mapping etc.
>>>>
>>>> And if a server implementor likes the module and decides to implement
>>>> it as if it was a normal module, so what?
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >> S3 should IMO be fine, too, the structures aren't that complicated.
>>>> >
>>>> > I can see only drawbacks compared to S2.  Whatever we do in text it
>>>> > will be less precise than an extension.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer less precise to precise but wrong.
>>>
>>> An extension is in no way wrong.
>>>
>>
>> agreed
>>
>>>> Keep in mind that you are
>>>> a YANG designer so you are not as likely to get confused by language
>>>> anomalies as an average reader of the RESTCONF document.
>>>
>>>
>>> /martin
>>
>> Andy
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

