From nobody Mon Jun 3 08:24:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FAD712033D for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:24:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gyB7YAGR5FvA for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F64C120343 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id y13so13910874lfh.9 for ; Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+m0OmvyDgB8nLpB07zUqdawiX97rtnTLUkUDDEy7VuI=; b=kwnC2uNWVlIq0i9ymkYbT2D76FJ81vXBG5TJMtYasObOOIefsSGxrGZS3EGUxBEZRb Lv2d9afkknq79ZaMhaFqhG4PSmOQG7IYhHe2QmbLQ0GEJwIJmvZAcVPkRqqrVBgNFs5w jmSmP8Fo6lRyJ/IeYmwted5gl9utkZfjJneXrP4c97wUOlCOBbRjEmZ78LqU2G3hyy9U LVy2CS/W8vgJpuaxCy3Veux54mZBZHeCGtk/njjd2lxQPaNHHMlF0GGnqSOXGh1FSaDV u75HGhz0zZNrnJZrAEZKMkDZ51Gq0TroI1CXHGdB8SRbeh3e7DoabVNPd9IbPnCbmiiO DqRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+m0OmvyDgB8nLpB07zUqdawiX97rtnTLUkUDDEy7VuI=; b=dD+3IgzlBhyzMAGNTPzFag09zJbaYptm5q9PTZxKc24vdw88EjDkHtLCN3b9ypfOx/ 0MwjhRUKALApiBlkWOPiKqMcvjjBRWSXHH91OZoKSyPzKtRtRv0uKTgXJj/FeM53aUM5 IExfHmGQEtik3DhJYCY7ktBgggTOGPpmPEJuP/OlqXiSrI+ZuDVFUNBrKvuKkCiBQxDU hRO5aXkQ/HRo36uad7nhjaQ0q3hCQY+bin7VZC1xrJYO2zJ7K6TPnd7Wwp+WHhc/7GKX +D8/xjiSp9kLKLtzBzFzpDiquLmpKB5j6Tf1b7KQGZnUfxt1WUwafYh4SfnODwB2Th2h ZhcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUXMr3Ugs5vboV451Vhu5IphWMmKDC6BQC04s824pPiNVd845LL qk8x2sDtytPG39gxN+ZnHRS0vEqlUNXt72hwxjATEQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz1QY1TvSYhnbzre05m8CbEs6vySOjBFIo4H7xlaGfKN2ETBY+60aZxat2F0OZKf2U/RLAD/RYxQMy8GouOU0A= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4202:: with SMTP id y2mr7806012lfh.178.1559575454445; Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:24:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:24:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f68c62058a6cf419" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2019 15:24:20 -0000 --000000000000f68c62058a6cf419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed commit in > RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 and Section 7.9 > , and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability. > > We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with the > current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to > minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 and > 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that in mind, > we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately look as > follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are to enable identifying > the changes. > > > OLD (as in original RFC 6241) > > *7.8* *. > * > > Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will > gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks > and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any > associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a > request will be ignored. > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > NEW > > *7.8* *. > * > > Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will > gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks > and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any > associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a > request will be ignored. > > For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a > request while processing a confirmed commit, > please refer to Section 8.4 > . > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > OLD (as in original RFC 6241). > > *7.9* *. * > > Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an > open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, > release any locks and resources associated with the session, and > close any associated connections. > > If a NETCONF server receives a request while > processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 > ), it MUST restore the > configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. > > Otherwise, the operation does not roll back > configuration or other device state modifications made by the > entity holding the lock. > > Parameters: > > session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be > terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, > an "invalid-value" error is returned. > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > 4 > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > NEW > > *7.9* *. * > > Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an > open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, > release any locks and resources associated with the session, and > close any associated connections. > > For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a > request while processing a confirmed commit, > please refer to Section 8.4 > . > > Otherwise, the operation does not roll back > configuration or other device state modifications made by the > entity holding the lock. > > Parameters: > > session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be > terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, > an "invalid-value" error is returned. > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > 4 > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > > In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified. > > OLD: > > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued. > > > NEW: > > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit > also included a element. > > I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a server MUST support continuation of a confirmed commit across a reboot. Is that what this new text is meant to convey? The new text could mean that if was provided that the server MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration and terminate the confirmed commit procedure. (There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows that restoring the configuration also terminates the CC) Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these changes. > > Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs) > > > Andy > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000f68c62058a6cf419 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahes= h Jethanandani <mjethanandani= @gmail.com> wrote:

Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed commit in= RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 <close-session> and Section 7.9 <k= ill-session>, and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability.

We, (the chairs) believe that the b= est way to resolve issues with the current set of erratum that already exis= t or are being proposed is to minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed = commit in both Section 7.8 and 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4= of the RFC. With that in mind, we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 s= hould ultimately look as follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections = are to enable identifying the changes.

=

=C2=A0

OLD (as in original RFC 6241)

7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Description:=C2=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETCONF s= ession.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF server receiv= es a <close-session> request, it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gracefully c= lose the session.=C2=A0 The server will release any locks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 associated connections.=C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests received = after a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session> request will be ignored.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was abl= e to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is sent t= hat includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Negative = Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reason= .

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Example:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc><= /div>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netcon= f:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= </rpc-reply>
=
NEW

7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>
=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description:=C2=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETC= ONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF server re= ceives a <close-session> request, it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 graceful= ly close the session.=C2=A0 The server will release any locks
<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 associated connections.=C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests receiv= ed after a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session> request will be ignored= .

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 For details on what happens if= a NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = <close-session> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 please refer to Section 8.4.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive= Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> = element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> if the requ= est cannot be completed for any reason.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Examp= le:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101&q= uot;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:= netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session/><= /span>
= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <= rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xml= ns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc-reply>
<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier;min-height:23px">
OLD (as in original RFC 6241).

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Des= cription:=C2=A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session.
<= /span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session>= ; request for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 open session, it will abort any operati= ons currently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 release any locks and resource= s associated with the session, and
<= span style=3D"font-kerning:none">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 close any associated = connections.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If a NETCONF server rece= ives a <kill-session> request while
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 processing a c= onfirmed commit (Section 8.4), it MUST restore the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 O= therwise, the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 configuration or other device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entity holding the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Parame= ters:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 session-id:=C2=A0 Session ident= ifier of the NETCONF session to be
<= span style=3D"font-kerning:none">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 terminat= ed.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the current session ID,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an "invalid-value" error is returned.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to sat= isfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is sent that incl= udes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Negative Response= :=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.=


=C2=A0=C2=A0 Example:
<= br>
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"&g= t;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 <session-id>4</session-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <= /kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>

<= /div>
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"&g= t;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc-reply>= ;

NEW

7.9.= =C2=A0 <kill-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description= :=C2=A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session.
<= br>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> req= uest for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 open session, it will abort any operations c= urrently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 release any locks and resources ass= ociated with the session, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 close any associated conne= ctions.

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 For details on what hap= pens if a NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 <kill-session> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 please refer to Section 8.4.

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 Otherwise, the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration or other device state modifications made by= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entity holding the lock.

<= /div>
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Parameters:

<= span style=3D"font-kerning:none">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 session-id:=C2=A0 Ses= sion identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the current session ID,
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an "invalid-value" error is return= ed.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device = was able to satisfy the request, an
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is= sent that includes an <ok> element.

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ne= gative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any= reason.


=C2=A0=C2=A0 Example:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:= 1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <session-id>4</session-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 </kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>
<= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:= 1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <= /rpc-reply>


In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 wo= uld be modified.

OLD:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the device reboots for any reason before the conf= irm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0 expires, the server MUST restore the configuration t= o its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0 before the confirmed commit was issued.
=


NEW:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the device reboots for any reason before= the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0 expires, the server MUST restore the config= uration to its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0 before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confi= rmed commit=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 also included a <persi= st> element.


=
I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies= that a server MUST support=C2=A0
continuation of a confirmed com= mit across a reboot.=C2=A0
Is that what this new text is meant to= convey?

The new text could mean that if <persi= st> was provided that the server MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration=
and terminate the confirmed commit procedure.

(There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows that= restoring the configuration
also terminates the CC)

Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to a= ccommodate these changes.

Mahesh & Kent (co-ch= airs)




Andy
= =C2=A0
________________________________________= _______
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
--000000000000f68c62058a6cf419-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 09:25:00 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b234ea8bc-090dd50a-90ef-43ad-b58c-a57b477210c9-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E97712004A for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p3rtSxS8P8Ir for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 470981200DE for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559665486; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=VcAZhAmnGcKI65PU+MLUffk4HcNE4RtlKWBoaREVGMY=; b=SiL7DaDWIrfZMsQndDrZsgLc95LhOS8YRaAHbyv0Dueun1NMgSLIX5h3Kq4Jqx+w ZP7L1K7qSIb64PNmAXAPqAfU6OefMiaXq0laMZLYabJhuWSAR5TTLYs8cr5DD3KhR+Z JKtkzvei/iC0BknyneJenftgMQhXg/kFfCsAYE4o= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b234ea8bc-090dd50a-90ef-43ad-b58c-a57b477210c9-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DFF4ED94-BC0C-4919-9094-8734505699E9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 16:24:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190530144715.ypon36hh62mhbk3f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <0100016a7e7a9e54-d4987061-96d8-49f3-a2bf-36b98851b3a3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016a7e822689-e6fdbdbe-ba84-43e1-aefe-47196fe692e3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190507.141926.1879619200930898148.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016a942528d9-f65afd2a-2cc7-451d-93d8-788495f6a13a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190508054622.rz64qmxdhbx53x4g@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016aa7b06b97-15f7703f-58b7-40a9-8afe-a54dd2b809e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016aeb7ee1aa-93dbb2f2-f4ff-432f-9a26-a10abb96b03b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b09177be4-ad12ed9f-ddc5-4c13-9470-39b2768513cb-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190530144715.ypon36hh62mhbk3f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.04-54.240.8.32 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] ietf crypto types - permanently hidden X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:24:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DFF4ED94-BC0C-4919-9094-8734505699E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Juergen, > Some comments: >=20 > - Not sure what security best practice is and where it is defined. = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/duOgrXt6P-WwO-Vdole9SsxS2vg = > Creating the key on the device has the benefit that the key may > never have to leave the device but it also requires that I can trust > the device to create good keys. (People recall the glitch that led > to weak openssh keys on many Linux systems? And given todays world, > which devices should I trust to generate strong keys?) I might > decide that creating keys with known software I am willing to trust > is far better than trusting a key generator shipped by a random > device manufacturer. Yes, and I've said the same here as well. Both options should be = supported. > - Side effects are bad and should be avoided. If something requires an > rpc/action, make it an rpc/action. >=20 > - If you create something, give it a name; once things are named (or > have other unique properties), config can then refer to these named > objects. A create key operation might simply return a fingerprint > for the key as the key's name. I'm unsure how to apply this beyond what has been discussed. Kent --Apple-Mail=_DFF4ED94-BC0C-4919-9094-8734505699E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Juergen,

Some comments:

- Not sure what security best practice is and = where it is defined.


 Creating the key on = the device has the benefit that the key may
 never = have to leave the device but it also requires that I can trust
 the device to create good keys. (People recall the = glitch that led
 to weak openssh keys on many Linux = systems? And given todays world,
 which devices = should I trust to generate strong keys?) I might
=  decide that creating keys with known software I am willing to = trust
 is far better than trusting a key generator = shipped by a random
 device manufacturer.

Yes, and = I've said the same here as well.  Both options should be = supported.

- Side effects are bad and = should be avoided. If something requires an
=  rpc/action, make it an rpc/action.

- = If you create something, give it a name; once things are named (or
 have other unique properties), config can then refer = to these named
 objects. A create key operation = might simply return a fingerprint
 for the key as = the key's name.

I'm unsure how to apply this beyond what has been = discussed.


Kent

= --Apple-Mail=_DFF4ED94-BC0C-4919-9094-8734505699E9-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 09:48:27 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b2363f4e4-2b90a529-1f7d-480b-a46e-8d5f4192a092-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11BA1200EC for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGVZHKXjYYll for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63CE81200C7 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:48:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559666882; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=L5dfkoPNcE515CD/F5u+QskXQlljOQysS5cBcbuG3oc=; b=Ozfi/EcJVnr9TOeVc3o/RMitejab1julBtF3giuWOtMDgpo0Xb1KgOA10hpruqbN KD5WB3UZ1X9H4pjPAYCou4T1z7hmFgCh8/tXAahX3iLA7IKvducxSxBR2bksVGBam/Z 1q0YBcCQEQB4qX+495S4ncsLZ2AQ5ToX721FuxVc= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b2363f4e4-2b90a529-1f7d-480b-a46e-8d5f4192a092-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5499BBC2-3B31-44AC-B12E-F4861FF1DF00" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 16:48:01 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBLb3bDoWNz?= References: <0100016a7e7a9e54-d4987061-96d8-49f3-a2bf-36b98851b3a3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016a7e822689-e6fdbdbe-ba84-43e1-aefe-47196fe692e3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190507.141926.1879619200930898148.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016a942528d9-f65afd2a-2cc7-451d-93d8-788495f6a13a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190508054622.rz64qmxdhbx53x4g@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016aa7b06b97-15f7703f-58b7-40a9-8afe-a54dd2b809e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016aeb7ee1aa-93dbb2f2-f4ff-432f-9a26-a10abb96b03b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b09177be4-ad12ed9f-ddc5-4c13-9470-39b2768513cb-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.04-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] ietf crypto types - permanently hidden X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:48:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5499BBC2-3B31-44AC-B12E-F4861FF1DF00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Balazs, > Also validation of required input and output seems more complicated to = me. > =20 > How so? > =20 > The =E2=80=98value-to-be-generated=E2=80=99 =E2=80=9Caction=E2=80=9D = would require both the private-key and public-key set to the same, plus = the algorithm be configured. Besides, if there is a must statement on = any of these, does the must statement consider the =E2=80=98input=E2=80=99= or the =E2=80=98output=E2=80=99 values? I got a bit confused while = thinking on these. If I understand correctly, this could be addressed by a 'must' statement = to ensure both the public and private key values have the = "" prefix. > Actually, I view =E2=80=98generate-and-not-hide=E2=80=99 as a very = common case. That is, ask the system to generate the key (because = clients are lazy and security best practice), and let standard NACM = rules protect the key. I think that systems supporting user-generated = "hidden" keys will be somewhat rare, to the extent that there should = feature statements enabling servers to indicate if they support the = ability or not. > =20 > Maybe generate-and-not-hide would be widespread, but it is not my = preferred choice of key handling due to that it opens up to the client = to manage the key blob after first generation. So maybe all of these = should be optional with features? Yes, assuming we go this route... > [...]=20 > This removes the "verbs" (as you call them) and thus leaves open = possibility for either "verbs" or action statements to be added in some = future revision. This subset still supports the critical use-case of a = manufacturer-generated private key for a secure device identifier (i.e., = IDevID). Unfortunately, it does not support the security best = practice use-case of having the device generate the private key. The = IESG (Security Directorate) may or may not be okay with this (obviously = the shepherd would have to bring it to their attention), but perhaps = it's worth testing their resolve and see what happens? > =20 > If so, can you clarify the configuration use case of client = configuring , does that produce a valid end-result? With the latest no-"verbs" proposal, there would be no ability (defined = by this model) for a client to itself create a 'permanently-hidden' key; = only the manufacturer could do that. However, in order for a client to = use the manufacturer-generated hidden key, it would need to "copy" it = from to . In , the 'algorithm' and = 'public-key' values would be visible, but the 'private-key' would have = the value 'permanently-hidden'. So, in order to "copy" the key to = , the client would (presumably) copy these three values as they = are in , including the string "" for = the private-key's value. The description of the node would state that = this is the only time a client can legally configure the value = "" (i.e., when the same key already exists in = ) > Or would that be only an output pattern created as the result of a = =E2=80=98generate-hidden-key=E2=80=99 action that may be added by an = implementation augmenting the model? It is primarily intended to be an output-only pattern, with the = exception being that mentioned above. > Regarding =E2=80=98encrypted by=E2=80=99, would that be only used when = the device allows to back up encrypted keys to later restore it to same = device (or any other that may get hold of the same encryption key in = some way)? Correct. For example, TPM chips have the ability to encrypt keys using = their "storage root key" (SRK), which 1) enables the key to be safely = exported but 2) only the TPM having the SRK can import/decrypt it. = While I don't think it's possible for TPMs to migrate an SRK, other = implementations may support that ability and so, as you say, it could = possibly be put onto another device. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_5499BBC2-3B31-44AC-B12E-F4861FF1DF00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Balazs,


Also validation of required = input and output seems more complicated to me.

 

How so?

 

The =E2=80=98value-to-be-generated=E2=80=99 = =E2=80=9Caction=E2=80=9D would require both the private-key and = public-key set to the same, plus the algorithm be configured. Besides, = if there is a must statement on any of these, does the must statement = consider the =E2=80=98input=E2=80=99 or the =E2=80=98output=E2=80=99 values? I got a bit confused while = thinking on these.


If I understand correctly, this could be addressed = by a 'must' statement to ensure both the public and private key values = have the "<value-to-be-generated>" prefix.


Actually, I = view  =E2=80=98generate-and-not-hide=E2=80=99 as a very = common case.  That is, ask the system to generate the key (because = clients are lazy and security best practice), and let standard NACM = rules protect the key.   I think that systems supporting user-generated "hidden" keys will be = somewhat rare, to the extent that there should feature statements = enabling servers to indicate if they support the ability or not.

 

Maybe = generate-and-not-hide would be widespread, but it is not my preferred = choice of key handling due to that it opens up to the client to manage = the key blob after first generation. So maybe all of these should be = optional with features?


Yes, assuming we go this route...


[...] 

This removes the "verbs" (as you call them) = and thus leaves open possibility for either "verbs" or action statements = to be added in some future revision.   This subset still supports = the critical use-case of a manufacturer-generated private key for a secure device identifier (i.e., IDevID).   =  Unfortunately, it does not support the security best practice = use-case of having the device generate the private key.  The IESG = (Security Directorate) may or may not be okay with this (obviously the shepherd would have to bring it to their attention), but perhaps = it's worth testing their resolve and see what happens?

 

If so, can you clarify = the configuration use case of client configuring = <permanently-hidden>, does that produce a valid end-result? =


With the = latest no-"verbs" proposal, there would be no ability (defined by this = model) for a client to itself create a 'permanently-hidden' key; only = the manufacturer could do that.  However, in order for a client to = use the manufacturer-generated hidden key, it would need to "copy" it = from <operational> to <running>.   In = <operational>, the 'algorithm' and 'public-key' values would be = visible, but the 'private-key' would have the value = 'permanently-hidden'.  So, in order to "copy" the key to = <running>, the client would (presumably) copy these three values = as they are in <operational>, including the string = "<permanently-hidden>" for the private-key's value.  The = description of the node would state that this is the only time a client = can legally configure the value "<permanently-hidden>" (i.e., when = the same key already exists in <operational>)


Or would that be only an = output pattern created as the result of a =E2=80=98generate-hidden-key=E2=80= =99 action that may be added by an implementation augmenting the = model?


It is = primarily intended to be an output-only pattern, with the exception = being that mentioned above.


Regarding =E2=80=98encrypted by=E2=80=99, would = that be only used when the device allows to back up encrypted keys to = later restore it to same device (or any other that may get hold of the = same encryption key in some way)?


Correct.  For example, TPM chips have the = ability to encrypt keys using their "storage root key" (SRK), which 1) = enables the key to be safely exported but 2) only the TPM having the SRK = can import/decrypt it.   While I don't think it's possible for TPMs = to migrate an SRK, other implementations may support that ability and = so, as you say, it could possibly be put onto another device.


Kent // = contributor



= --Apple-Mail=_5499BBC2-3B31-44AC-B12E-F4861FF1DF00-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 12:48:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9AB61205D9 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:48:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P1PTESuCg3GN for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com (mail-pf1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C70512013B for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id a23so13327813pff.4 for ; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 12:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=CnCmTNHL+9k3ZhZ+lUAO4MJLPtRMl8P3Qrfgnf8MDp8=; b=nCZl65fwc/PiWUi5OJZU4xAyMXyse3MomTDCcqMIIMnfOGRK2v+lQiaDx87WlJEn6P Yi0fBEa5b/OdM32bXqKsiPXevPR0H/9vqawC5oN7vdTHcUtyOUdUJJJgXBM3LsPb6kgj K36+u333KNb5pvJiKJSquxZcLiBY6EkC4tGs28SLgvJJ8wH6usBa9M27eTIKttb8exJr RMkgLWPen0QUsHY/3Um/QAz8d2+oJXtydHwv8RJaXLhUxKcuEfLAfYQp9TPI1v2qFHYY ZvZoMTDd6C3KfLmyo/BFsltuvcnSeiu8Y0Iw7psHtHcD8Z0e9i/nI16s6F5jwrYxOJab LtfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=CnCmTNHL+9k3ZhZ+lUAO4MJLPtRMl8P3Qrfgnf8MDp8=; b=M/VwSLrMOqT/L9c0kTHKX+4yJOZSBb2WZLkPuY9aUs4jB0hiypDguiPgdlbL0dr/Ki 4vKlUvO6RakAR7T2q6IPpqjonYHQRj5k42dunsdrG3u1LslrdWf2/j62DBpfHE7ptLRs ipIeijeVXk5DTVeBVYqAj/FVMpTKgtrrIGNY6pOJ/UsDFQmFtRzoRcyiYLYQ6dLj1+Ku TsYrR4F1ohnByaDjC2VDAm9cbG3dZhwhtpxRhse4wQIzZncAP921hSJCRisI35EWNcYY +/QV324Q8vtGSzpVtbdHS9Q3eA4V03uY2zizPlwXUsditm7GLElkbNHjWgj6FgHZMyO/ aXAA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU7j4v74VBjV6xGoX+oMf7xFcOvOh27dRBHxgdT+/iZZSW8xZ2/ z7z17rQVP8/x8mFUnV0UTEpVxHun X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzQALLxD3uTjRTXCJaobrmZnmi+ROsKbZ19KXbhXZ8YgvCDNR+Xiaw9GCLCVRiFgYLWF0hrKA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:29c5:: with SMTP id h63mr5469045pjd.83.1559677679216; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 12:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.123.214] ([66.170.99.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c142sm20652466pfb.171.2019.06.04.12.47.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Jun 2019 12:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7ED1B3B9-8237-4A60-9877-2B203068A164" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:47:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Netconf To: Andy Bierman References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 19:48:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7ED1B3B9-8237-4A60-9877-2B203068A164 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Andy, Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not = agree with what is being proposed. Thanks > On Jun 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = > wrote: >=20 >=20 > Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed = commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 and Section 7.9 = , and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability. >=20 > We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with the = current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to = minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 = and 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that = in mind, we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately = look as follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are to enable = identifying the changes. >=20 > =20 > OLD (as in original RFC 6241) >=20 > 7.8 . = >=20 > Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >=20 > When a NETCONF server receives a request, it = will > gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks > and resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any > associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a > request will be ignored. >=20 > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an > is sent that includes an element. >=20 > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >=20 > Example: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > >=20 > NEW >=20 > 7.8 . = >=20 > Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >=20 > When a NETCONF server receives a request, it = will > gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks > and resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any > associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a > request will be ignored. >=20 > For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=20 > request while processing a confirmed commit, > please refer to Section 8.4 = . >=20 > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an > is sent that includes an element. >=20 > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >=20 > Example: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > >=20 > OLD (as in original RFC 6241). >=20 > 7.9 . >=20 > Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >=20 > When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an > open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, > release any locks and resources associated with the session, and > close any associated connections. >=20 > If a NETCONF server receives a request while > processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 = ), it MUST restore the > configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was = issued. >=20 > Otherwise, the operation does not roll back > configuration or other device state modifications made by the > entity holding the lock. >=20 > Parameters: >=20 > session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be > terminated. If this value is equal to the current session = ID, > an "invalid-value" error is returned. >=20 > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an > is sent that includes an element. >=20 > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >=20 >=20 > Example: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > 4 > > >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > >=20 > NEW >=20 > 7.9 . >=20 > Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >=20 > When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an > open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, > release any locks and resources associated with the session, and > close any associated connections. >=20 > For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=20 > request while processing a confirmed commit, > please refer to Section 8.4 = . >=20 > Otherwise, the operation does not roll back > configuration or other device state modifications made by the > entity holding the lock. >=20 > Parameters: >=20 > session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be > terminated. If this value is equal to the current session = ID, > an "invalid-value" error is returned. >=20 > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an > is sent that includes an element. >=20 > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >=20 >=20 > Example: >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > 4 > > >=20 > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > >=20 >=20 > In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be = modified. >=20 > OLD: >=20 > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued. >=20 >=20 > NEW: >=20 > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit=20= > also included a element. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a = server MUST support=20 > continuation of a confirmed commit across a reboot.=20 > Is that what this new text is meant to convey? >=20 > The new text could mean that if was provided that the server = MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration > and terminate the confirmed commit procedure. >=20 > (There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows that = restoring the configuration > also terminates the CC) >=20 >=20 > Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these = changes. >=20 > Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_7ED1B3B9-8237-4A60-9877-2B203068A164 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Andy,

Please provide = alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not agree with what = is being proposed.

Thanks

On Jun 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, = Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

Several attempts have been made to = clarify the role of confirmed commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 = <close-session> and Section 7.9 <kill-session>, and the text = in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability.

We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues = with the current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed = is to minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both = Section 7.8 and 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. = With that in mind, we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should = ultimately look as follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are = to enable identifying the changes.

 
OLD (as in original RFC 6241)

7.8.  = <close-session>

   Description:  Request = graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

      When a NETCONF server = receives a <close-session> request, it will
    =   gracefully = close the session.  The server will release any = locks
  =     and = resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any
  =     associated= connections.  Any NETCONF requests received after = a
  =     <close-session> = request will be ignored.

   Positive Response:  If = the device was able to satisfy the request, an
    =   <rpc-reply>= is sent that includes an <ok> element.

   Negative Response:  An = <rpc-error> element is included in the
    =   <rpc-reply>= if the request cannot be completed for any reason.

   Example:

     <rpc = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <close-session/>=
   =   </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
   =   </rpc-reply>

NEW

7.8.  = <close-session>

   Description:  Request = graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

      When a NETCONF server = receives a <close-session> request, it will
    =   gracefully = close the session.  The server will release any = locks
  =     and = resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any
  =     associated= connections.  Any NETCONF requests received after = a
  =     <close-session> = request will be ignored.

      For details on what = happens if a NETCONF server receives a 
  =     <close-session> = request while processing a confirmed commit,
  =     please = refer to Section = 8.4.

   Positive Response:  If = the device was able to satisfy the request, an
    =   <rpc-reply>= is sent that includes an <ok> element.

   Negative Response:  An = <rpc-error> element is included in the
    =   <rpc-reply>= if the request cannot be completed for any reason.

   Example:

     <rpc = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <close-session/>=
   =   </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
   =   </rpc-reply>

OLD (as in original RFC 6241).

7.9.  = <kill-session>

   Description:  Force = the termination of a NETCONF session.

  =     When a = NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for = an
  =     open = session, it will abort any operations currently in = process,
  =     release = any locks and resources associated with the session, = and
  =     close = any associated connections.

  =     If a = NETCONF server receives a <kill-session> request = while
  =     processing= a confirmed commit (Section = 8.4), it MUST restore the
      configuration to its state = before the confirmed commit was issued.

  =     Otherwise,= the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
    =   configuration = or other device state modifications made by the
    =   entity holding = the lock.

   Parameters:

      session-id:  Session = identifier of the NETCONF session to be
         terminated.  If this = value is equal to the current session ID,
     =     an = "invalid-value" error is returned.

   Positive Response:  If = the device was able to satisfy the request, an
    =   <rpc-reply>= is sent that includes an <ok> element.

   Negative Response:  An = <rpc-error> element is included in the
    =   <rpc-reply>= if the request cannot be completed for any reason.


   Example:

     <rpc = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <kill-session>
     =     <session-id>4</sessi= on-id>
       </kill-session><= /div>
   =   </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
   =   </rpc-reply>

NEW

7.9.  = <kill-session>

   Description:  Force = the termination of a NETCONF session.

  =     When a = NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for = an
  =     open = session, it will abort any operations currently in = process,
  =     release = any locks and resources associated with the session, = and
  =     close = any associated connections.

      For details on what = happens if a NETCONF server receives a 
  =     <kill-session> = request while processing a confirmed commit,
  =     please = refer to Section = 8.4.

      Otherwise, the = <kill-session> operation does not roll back
    =   configuration = or other device state modifications made by the
    =   entity holding = the lock.

   Parameters:

      session-id:  Session = identifier of the NETCONF session to be
         terminated.  If this = value is equal to the current session ID,
     =     an = "invalid-value" error is returned.

   Positive Response:  If = the device was able to satisfy the request, an
    =   <rpc-reply>= is sent that includes an <ok> element.

   Negative Response:  An = <rpc-error> element is included in the
    =   <rpc-reply>= if the request cannot be completed for any reason.


   Example:

     <rpc = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <kill-session>
     =     <session-id>4</sessi= on-id>
       </kill-session><= /div>
   =   </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
  =         xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
   =   </rpc-reply>


In addition, the = following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified.

OLD:

   If the device reboots for = any reason before the confirm timeout
   expires, the server MUST = restore the configuration to its state
   before the confirmed commit = was issued.


NEW:

   If the device reboots for = any reason before the confirm timeout
   expires, the server MUST = restore the configuration to its state
   before the confirmed commit = was issued, unless the confirmed commit 
   also included a = <persist> element.



I = do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a server = MUST support 
continuation of a confirmed = commit across a reboot. 
Is that what this new = text is meant to convey?

The new text could mean that if <persist> was provided = that the server MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration
and terminate the confirmed commit procedure.

(There is text in = multiple places that assumes the reader knows that restoring the = configuration
also terminates the CC)


Current Erratums for = RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these changes.

Mahesh & Kent = (co-chairs)




Andy
 
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
<= /div>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_7ED1B3B9-8237-4A60-9877-2B203068A164-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 13:17:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F36D1205D9 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:17:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HxzNthrjjptn for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58E94120048 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id v29so9696601ljv.0 for ; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IpbMLSVkcQUJIoAwiwpwdW2UVm56XZbU3UEIM1T8EFs=; b=urrhmuc6qtI507J8rwSttTSUy7sXR3nTglA/mhosYiYbnFMn4EMFRPiE0ofhIxsTIx 7VOOVopZmps/qpVPi7/Y77ZMqSjGC78f6+SAVjmQ3Ke6JjhgsjHvl8UWdp2xfA/Qp1vG x2tLcw9caeIPWnNeDNPtW7FsPGQ7JyCSAZAF9jV/pWwDjVjWfd2sAT+28rNjZhV/rlC/ w/+XRb7tIujjP4he66U6Or/ZSYd+zwao/IwE36aNR0OGlf5wFYoWbZKiBlEp9o4hbUva JUXONFWE3f2Kqkdz/ccBfR0hj8ov18rC0M0nYuLl55HkJj/S/iHq0n8h+GY8PktYGzQy hH5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IpbMLSVkcQUJIoAwiwpwdW2UVm56XZbU3UEIM1T8EFs=; b=OqkMPgW4OgOsT7ghFrXES1bA0g6Q53sFWL9U4NTv4b7iQVaxXwK/Ws5vgh7jqsQt83 CiXre1bmxTrMMWVmF8cgeZbKjfaZCCVHpi2tkpJ8LV4BmOmMxvrmiOqEHs2tDJDnHShA KEDraShFy5y6d5isHY7zx/5t2KhXQAnCXLZRQdnqp/6BwehCG59VWH+mr+mbmL5UlqVE bTbP87tMjCVC4km3432Lv27P47wZO9kZdcexMxsjwioNnf7W4o8gQDKutjKe5Mkxr3zS C/CEL0ChI8w6DKDDI5qremCd5VcnbjxxeOIUJjc+TSZ0NWmD9c05+psJBukbw3M1M7Cd I8dA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWb8eDSVD/QJxv6PeobmNbsvWaz7pJlq2Q9866P8v0Uf9lXwqF9 YtDXOgvBVm+t2cUyMWsXrxkyouLVGMicgFgjecj6Yg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyQ6Mu86VsDAXtmiBeFO0q7gyqnGAK7HSpschAO/PM5eQAmT0kos6aZNqLum7vSz+fUtVgQxAeJFJkytnoNel0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b0ee:: with SMTP id h14mr15255905ljl.171.1559679428346; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 13:17:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:16:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a5f21058a852a97" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:17:15 -0000 --0000000000004a5f21058a852a97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 alone and not change it I don't agree there is any text to support this significant change in server behavior. An Errata should not make existing implementations non-compliant. I don't see any text that indicates the original intent was to make a confirmed commit survive a reboot. If a parameter is provided by the client session, and then that client session terminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) to invoke the operation. The only remedy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the device. If the timeout is long or unknown) then waiting it out may not be a good option. With the new text, rebooting the device does not clear this situation Andy On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not > agree with what is being proposed. > > Thanks > > On Jun 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani < > mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed commit >> in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 and Section 7.9 >> , and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability. >> >> We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with the >> current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to >> minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 and >> 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that in mind, >> we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately look as >> follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are to enable identifying >> the changes. >> >> >> OLD (as in original RFC 6241) >> >> *7.8* *. >> * >> >> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >> >> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will >> gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks >> and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any >> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a >> request will be ignored. >> >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >> is sent that includes an element. >> >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >> >> Example: >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >> >> NEW >> >> *7.8* *. >> * >> >> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >> >> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will >> gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks >> and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any >> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a >> request will be ignored. >> >> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a >> request while processing a confirmed commit, >> please refer to Section 8.4 >> . >> >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >> is sent that includes an element. >> >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >> >> Example: >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >> >> OLD (as in original RFC 6241). >> >> *7.9* *. >> * >> >> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >> >> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an >> open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, >> release any locks and resources associated with the session, and >> close any associated connections. >> >> If a NETCONF server receives a request while >> processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 >> ), it MUST restore the >> configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. >> >> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >> configuration or other device state modifications made by the >> entity holding the lock. >> >> Parameters: >> >> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >> terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, >> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >> >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >> is sent that includes an element. >> >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >> >> >> Example: >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> 4 >> >> >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >> >> NEW >> >> *7.9* *. >> * >> >> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >> >> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an >> open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, >> release any locks and resources associated with the session, and >> close any associated connections. >> >> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a >> request while processing a confirmed commit, >> please refer to Section 8.4 >> . >> >> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >> configuration or other device state modifications made by the >> entity holding the lock. >> >> Parameters: >> >> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >> terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, >> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >> >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >> is sent that includes an element. >> >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >> >> >> Example: >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> 4 >> >> >> >> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >> >> >> In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified. >> >> OLD: >> >> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >> before the confirmed commit was issued. >> >> >> NEW: >> >> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit >> also included a element. >> >> > > I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a server > MUST support > continuation of a confirmed commit across a reboot. > Is that what this new text is meant to convey? > > The new text could mean that if was provided that the server MAY > or SHOULD restore the configuration > and terminate the confirmed commit procedure. > > (There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows that > restoring the configuration > also terminates the CC) > > > Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these >> changes. >> >> Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs) >> >> >> > > Andy > > >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > --0000000000004a5f21058a852a97 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I prefer to leave = the old text in 8.4.1 alone and not change it
I don't agree t= here is any text to support this significant change in server behavior.
An Errata should not make existing implementations non-compliant.
I don't see any text that indicates the original intent was to = make a confirmed commit
survive a reboot.=C2=A0

If a <persist> parameter is provided by the client session, a= nd then that client session
terminates, there is no way for a sup= eruser (or any user) to invoke the <cancel-commit>
operatio= n.=C2=A0 The only remedy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the device.
If the timeout is long or unknown) then waiting it out may not be = a good option.

With the new text, rebooting the de= vice does not clear this situation


= Andy


On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandan= i <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Please p= rovide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not agree with wh= at is being proposed.

Thanks




On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethan= andani <mje= thanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed commit in= RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 <close-session> and Section 7.9 <k= ill-session>, and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability.

We, (the chairs) believe that the b= est way to resolve issues with the current set of erratum that already exis= t or are being proposed is to minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed = commit in both Section 7.8 and 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4= of the RFC. With that in mind, we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 s= hould ultimately look as follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections = are to enable identifying the changes.

=
=C2=A0
OLD (as in origina= l RFC 6241)

= 7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Description:=C2=A0 Request graceful = termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a NETCONF server receives a <close-session>= request, it will
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0gracefully close the session.=C2=A0 The server will release a= ny locks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= span class=3D"gmail-m_-7255355645366113168Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0associated = connections.=C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests received after a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session> re= quest will be ignored.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to satisfy the request, an<= /span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rp= c-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error= > element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> if the request cannot be comple= ted for any reason.
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Exa= mple:
<= br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc me= ssage-id=3D"101"
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:net= conf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101&q= uot;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"&g= t;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= span class=3D"gmail-m_-7255355645366113168Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2= =A0</rpc-reply>

NEW

7.8.=C2=A0 <close-se= ssion>
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Descrip= tion:=C2=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.
=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a NETCONF server recei= ves a <close-session> request, it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0gracefully close the session.=C2=A0 = The server will release any locks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0and resources associated with the session and g= racefully close any
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0associated connections.=C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests received a= fter a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session> request will be ignored.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For deta= ils on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<= ;close-session> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0please refer to=C2=A0Section 8.4<= /span>.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Re= sponse:=C2=A0 If the device was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply>= is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> elemen= t is included in the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for a= ny reason.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-id= =3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:ba= se:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0= xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<= ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>
=
OLD (as in original RFC 6241).

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Description:=C2=A0 Force the te= rmination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> requ= est for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0= open session, it will abort any operations currently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0release= any locks and resources associated with the session, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0close any associated co= nnections.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0If a= NETCONF server receives a <kill-session> request while
<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0processing a confir= med commit (Section 8.4), = it MUST restore the
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was is= sued.
<= br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwi= se, the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration or other = device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0entity holding the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Parameters:

=C2=A0session-id:=C2=A0 Session identifier of the= NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to = the current session ID,
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0an "invalid-value" error is return= ed.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:= =C2=A0 If the device was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> is sen= t that includes an <ok> element.

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is in= cluded in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2= =A0<rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reas= on.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-id=3D"101"= ;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2= =A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0&= lt;kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<session-id>4</session-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</ki= ll-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2= =A0</rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0= <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn= :ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:norm= al">NEW

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-s= ession>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Descrip= tion:=C2=A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a NETCONF entity receives a &= lt;kill-session> request for an
<= span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0open session, it will abort any operations cur= rently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0release any locks and resources associated with the session, = and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0cl= ose any associated connections.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For details on what happ= ens if a NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<kill-session>= ; request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0please refer = to=C2=A0<= /span>Section 8.4.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwise, the <k= ill-session> operation does not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration or other device state = modifications made by the
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0entity holding the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Parameters:

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0session-id:=C2=A0 Session identifier of the NETCONF se= ssion to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the curren= t session ID,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0an "invalid-value" error is returned.=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If t= he device was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> is sent that incl= udes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0= Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0&= lt;rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.<= /div>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<kill-ses= sion>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<session-id>4</session-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</kill-session&g= t;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<= /rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc= -reply message-id=3D"101"
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:x= ml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>


In addition, t= he following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified.

OLD:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the device reboots for any reas= on before the confirm timeout
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its s= tate
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0before = the confirmed commit was issued.


NEW:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the device reboots f= or any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server MUST restore the configurati= on to its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0before the confirmed commit was issued,=C2=A0unless the confirmed commit=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0also included a <= persist> element.



I do not agree at all that the original text says or = implies that a server MUST support=C2=A0
continuation of a confir= med commit across a reboot.=C2=A0
Is that what this new text is m= eant to convey?

The new text could mean that if &l= t;persist> was provided that the server MAY or SHOULD restore the config= uration
and terminate the confirmed commit procedure.
<= br>
(There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader kno= ws that restoring the configuration
also terminates the CC)
=


Curre= nt Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these changes.

Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs)




Andy
=C2=A0
____________= ___________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
=

Mahesh Jethanandani



--0000000000004a5f21058a852a97-- From nobody Wed Jun 5 17:58:53 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b2a4ba167-46e45e4f-a2f3-4327-87d5-22da10aad5fe-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2801200F7 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p4NCLSKXVxQB for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92D38120025 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:58:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559782728; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=Anin7BQOkkiLNBhJVuQKmjnlGiXcyEUOVDHGbjEELEQ=; b=YVurTprFro1gaHb3Wln+vCJZqlZBBdWnn8Gf7ssc/oEuW8AN7OcIIYPfFDOkIYgN /SbBSsy6dvg4FMdCvihXmpfvWKeLZC/WWGTcpyUwXh/JG33kXFYYx3/FvcBz4UgFd0+ ttMVStUwcbk4aq9nvSkAFd/49moPK65M6AZ0BoRI= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FE6096BA-0265-42E1-8F92-7BFDB15EDF1E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016b2a4ba167-46e45e4f-a2f3-4327-87d5-22da10aad5fe-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 00:58:48 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.06-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] proposal for tcp-client-server draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 00:58:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FE6096BA-0265-42E1-8F92-7BFDB15EDF1E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Folks, I'm working on a project for which the server is behind a NAT (e.g., a = load balancer and/or TLS terminator), and the server needs to sometimes = send out messages containing respond-back contact information (e.g., a = URL to confirm the activation of a user account). In these cases, the = hostname/address it sends is not its native value, but rather the value = used by the NAT fronting it. Furthermore, the server may have multiple = interfaces, each with different values (e.g., NBI, SBI, EBI, etc.), each = potentially fronted by a NAT. Using the client-server stacks, it makes = sense to capture this information in the TCP-server model, the lowest = common denominator. While my application-level model could augment-in = nodes to capture the NAT-ed values, the scenario seems common enough to = warrant placement in the base model, albeit enabled by a = feature-statement. I'm thus planning to include some provision for this = in the next TCP-server model update, so that it is captured and = thoroughly discussed later. FWIW, I'm tempted to make a symmetric update to the TCP-client model to = support outbound proxies. For instance, the ietf-http-client module = already has a "proxy-server" node; however that node contains TLS/HTTP = client/server authentication parameters, which would be inappropriate to = capture in a TCP-level node. For this reason, I'm not planning to make = the symmetric TCP-client change, but rather leave it here as something = for folks to ponder. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_FE6096BA-0265-42E1-8F92-7BFDB15EDF1E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Folks,

I'm working on a project = for which the server is behind a NAT (e.g., a load balancer and/or TLS = terminator), and the server needs to sometimes send out messages = containing respond-back contact information (e.g., a URL to confirm the = activation of a user account).  In these cases, the = hostname/address it sends is not its native value, but rather the value = used by the NAT fronting it.  Furthermore, the server may have = multiple interfaces, each with different values (e.g., NBI, SBI, EBI, = etc.), each potentially fronted by a NAT.  Using the client-server = stacks, it makes sense to capture this information in the TCP-server = model, the lowest common denominator.   While my application-level = model could augment-in nodes to capture the NAT-ed values, the scenario = seems common enough to warrant placement in the base model, albeit = enabled by a feature-statement.  I'm thus planning to include some = provision for this in the next TCP-server model update, so that it is = captured and thoroughly discussed later.

FWIW, I'm tempted to make a symmetric = update to the TCP-client model to support outbound proxies.  For = instance, the ietf-http-client module already has a "proxy-server" node; = however that node contains TLS/HTTP client/server authentication = parameters, which would be inappropriate to capture in a TCP-level node. =  For this reason, I'm not planning to make the symmetric TCP-client = change, but rather leave it here as something for folks to = ponder.

Kent =  // contributor


= --Apple-Mail=_FE6096BA-0265-42E1-8F92-7BFDB15EDF1E-- From nobody Fri Jun 7 00:22:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9411201A3 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 00:21:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4jNBUqXCvY7o for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 00:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CF41201C9 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 00:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 865F11AE0290; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 09:21:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:21:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190607.092153.194992342177419682.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b2a4ba167-46e45e4f-a2f3-4327-87d5-22da10aad5fe-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016b2a4ba167-46e45e4f-a2f3-4327-87d5-22da10aad5fe-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] proposal for tcp-client-server draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 07:22:00 -0000 Hi, If at all possible, I think we should not include more features in these models, but instead try to get them finished with the features they have. This said, if you believe the fundamental design needs to be changed to accomodate for things like NAT etc, then perhaps it is better to do this now. /martin Kent Watsen wrote: > > Folks, > > I'm working on a project for which the server is behind a NAT (e.g., a > load balancer and/or TLS terminator), and the server needs to > sometimes send out messages containing respond-back contact > information (e.g., a URL to confirm the activation of a user account). > In these cases, the hostname/address it sends is not its native value, > but rather the value used by the NAT fronting it. Furthermore, the > server may have multiple interfaces, each with different values (e.g., > NBI, SBI, EBI, etc.), each potentially fronted by a NAT. Using the > client-server stacks, it makes sense to capture this information in > the TCP-server model, the lowest common denominator. While my > application-level model could augment-in nodes to capture the NAT-ed > values, the scenario seems common enough to warrant placement in the > base model, albeit enabled by a feature-statement. I'm thus planning > to include some provision for this in the next TCP-server model > update, so that it is captured and thoroughly discussed later. > > FWIW, I'm tempted to make a symmetric update to the TCP-client model > to support outbound proxies. For instance, the ietf-http-client > module already has a "proxy-server" node; however that node contains > TLS/HTTP client/server authentication parameters, which would be > inappropriate to capture in a TCP-level node. For this reason, I'm > not planning to make the symmetric TCP-client change, but rather leave > it here as something for folks to ponder. > > Kent // contributor > > From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:21:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940781200B2; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:21:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994251751.27463.7186237757454126652@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:21:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-07.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:21:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography Authors : Kent Watsen Wang Haiguang Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-07.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings useful for cryptographic applications. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:23:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040CB120044; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:23:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994261593.27343.8907409266617073427@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:23:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-05.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:23:36 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for a Truststore Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-05.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines a YANG 1.1 data model for configuring global sets of X.509 certificates and SSH host-keys that can be referenced by other data models for trust. While the SSH host-keys are uniquely for the SSH protocol, the X.509 certificates may have multiple uses, including authenticating protocol peers and verifying signatures. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft o "YYYY" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2019-06-07" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:29:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162041200B2; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:29:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994298601.27343.3296172223747905351@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:29:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-10.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:29:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for a Keystore Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-10.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines a YANG 1.1 module called "ietf-keystore" that enables centralized configuration of asymmetric keys and their associated certificates, and notification for when configured certificates are about to expire. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:33:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54BA81200B2; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994321027.27437.13011314403397209303@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:33:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-01.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:33:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for TCP Clients and TCP Servers Authors : Kent Watsen Michael Scharf Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-01.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines a grouping for configuring a generic TCP client, the second defines a grouping for configuring a generic TCP server, and the third defines a grouping common to the TCP clients and TCP servers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:36:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11722120044; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:36:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994341599.27381.15338691547780571216@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:36:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:36:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for SSH Clients and SSH Servers Authors : Kent Watsen Gary Wu Liang Xia Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14.txt Pages : 48 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines groupings for a generic SSH client, the second defines groupings for a generic SSH server, and the third defines common identities and groupings used by both the client and the server. It is intended that these groupings will be used by applications using the SSH protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:39:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97994120114; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:39:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994356255.27394.5151141738111189013@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:39:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-13.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:39:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for TLS Clients and TLS Servers Authors : Kent Watsen Gary Wu Liang Xia Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-13.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines groupings for a generic TLS client, the second defines groupings for a generic TLS server, and the third defines common identities and groupings used by both the client and the server. It is intended that these groupings will be used by applications using the TLS protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:44:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A935120161; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:44:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994385855.27481.17218763408087113370@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:44:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-13.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:44:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : NETCONF Client and Server Models Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-13.txt Pages : 62 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a NETCONF client and the other module to configure a NETCONF server. Both modules support both the SSH and TLS transport protocols, and support both standard NETCONF and NETCONF Call Home connections. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. This document contains references to other drafts in progress, both in the Normative References section, as well as in body text throughout. Please update the following references to reflect their final RFC assignments: o I-D.ietf-netconf-keystore o I-D.ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server o I-D.ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server o I-D.ietf-netconf-tls-client-server Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft o "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-tcp-client- server o "YYYY" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-ssh-client- server o "ZZZZ" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-tls-client- server Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2019-06-07" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix B. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 14:55:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38733120044; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:55:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155994453115.27458.5148329061001505265@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:55:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-13.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:55:31 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : RESTCONF Client and Server Models Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-13.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2019-06-07 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a RESTCONF client and the other module to configure a RESTCONF server. Both modules support the TLS transport protocol with both standard RESTCONF and RESTCONF Call Home connections. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. This document contains references to other drafts in progress, both in the Normative References section, as well as in body text throughout. Please update the following references to reflect their final RFC assignments: o I-D.ietf-netconf-keystore o I-D.ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server o I-D.ietf-netconf-tls-client-server o I-D.ietf-netconf-http-client-server Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft o "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-tcp-client- server o "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-tls-client- server o "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-http- client-server Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2019-06-07" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix B. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 7 15:28:16 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DCBE1200F7 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fYo6DuBgjUwu for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14E90120141 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:28:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559946489; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=/eyZsr1xuBiCST89bNnytgZtlMXmFKATZsxOTPW8Y4g=; b=ktRGFswIJadhMrNp0nhhdYK2168GuZcCz3sAzgffZ+u3csmcgiKRW0QNhJgdXLtl ka2Hkci0umeTQivLIOdf3jF7gPOCecYHRbzpk7MIFqc4D6xPnVWTA+KxAHzB6ICijor uIaVkuxhFJcVBPYquVAMM7MqmhSC41bjBboS5Acw= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C120E64E-B613-4179-9388-427C80C5327F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 22:28:09 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.07-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 22:28:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C120E64E-B613-4179-9388-427C80C5327F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The updates can be broadly described as thus: 1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' = like equivalents. If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply = remove them, having no solution for asking the device to generate a key = or install a hidden key. 2) in trust-anchors, renamed "trust-anchors" to "truststore" 3) in both truststore and keystore, moved everything under a 'grouping' = statement which is then used by a 'container'. This is almost an = editorial update. 4) in tcp-client-server, added support for external NAT (we can remove = is preferred) 5) in restconf-client-server, added an 'http-listen' (not https-listen) = choice, to support case when server is behind a TLS-terminator. This = draft isn't adopted yet, but this is driven by my needing to support = this use case in a project I'm working on. (ps: yes, I'm implementing = the entire ietf-restconf-server model). 6) also in restconf-client-server, refactored the server module to be = more like other 'server' models. If folks like it, I will also apply = the same also to the client model, as well as to both the netconf = client/server models. Now the 'restconf-server-grouping' is just the = RC-specific bits (i.e., the "demux" container minus the container), = 'restconf-server-[listen|callhome]-stack-grouping' is the protocol stack = for a single connection, and 'restconf-server-app-grouping' is = effectively what was before (both listen+callhome for many = inbound/outbound endpoints). There are other smaller changes, please see the change logs and diffs = for details. PS: the chairs are hoping to enter crypto-types, truststore, and = keystore in Last Call in a couple weeks. There may be another update = to crypto-types draft before then pending on my Huawei co-authors. The = remainder of the drafts need more work before ready for Last Call. Thanks, Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_C120E64E-B613-4179-9388-427C80C5327F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

The updates can be broadly described as = thus:

1) in = crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' like = equivalents.  If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply = remove them, having no solution for asking the device to generate a key = or install a hidden key.

2) in trust-anchors, renamed "trust-anchors" to = "truststore"

3) = in both truststore and keystore, moved everything under a 'grouping' = statement which is then used by a 'container'.  This is almost an = editorial update.

4) in tcp-client-server, added support for external NAT (we = can remove is preferred)

5) in restconf-client-server, added an 'http-listen' (not = https-listen) choice, to support case when server is behind a = TLS-terminator.  This draft isn't adopted yet, but this is driven = by my needing to support this use case in a project I'm working on. =  (ps: yes, I'm implementing the entire ietf-restconf-server = model).

6) = also in restconf-client-server, refactored the server module to be more = like other 'server' models.  If folks like it, I will also apply = the same also to the client model, as well as to both the netconf = client/server models.  Now the 'restconf-server-grouping' is just = the RC-specific bits (i.e., the "demux" container minus the container), = 'restconf-server-[listen|callhome]-stack-grouping' is the protocol stack = for a single connection, and 'restconf-server-app-grouping' is = effectively what was before (both listen+callhome for many = inbound/outbound endpoints).

There are other smaller changes, please = see the change logs and diffs for details.


PS: = the chairs are hoping to enter crypto-types, truststore, and keystore in = Last Call in a couple weeks.   There may be another update to = crypto-types draft before then pending on my Huawei co-authors.   = The remainder of the drafts need more work before ready for Last = Call.

Thanks,
Kent // contributor


= --Apple-Mail=_C120E64E-B613-4179-9388-427C80C5327F-- From nobody Fri Jun 7 15:30:55 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b3410e34a-44c383cd-954a-46c4-b8a5-910dca096701-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF49120154 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:30:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U2W5FDynYXPI for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A505512002E for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:30:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559946650; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=KpTCVh7yswTvbCvdwyfWH0HKLI+iipTM5yG3SfMjMPs=; b=JI8Vr8uzKigRUQdo/eqRD7ndRJh6phRUjs+N6WwBQdII+/aIb3VTHizKRWkCJv5B DpJDq5LNe489ikEUaG3q7iQobziuDR9ZN+fBJN0JOnwsmxF/9ixjCZF9LyVrHm2yOnm 2qPc0dCkMbT9j7a1sE/w1hCbowN+0E2v4As7PCiU= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2DA2288F-94A7-4754-8576-6D6914716581" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 22:30:50 +0000 References: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100016b3410e34a-44c383cd-954a-46c4-b8a5-910dca096701-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.07-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 22:30:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2DA2288F-94A7-4754-8576-6D6914716581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I misspoke, the restconf-client-server draft is adopted (I was thinking = about the http-client-server draft). K. > On Jun 7, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > The updates can be broadly described as thus: >=20 > 1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' = like equivalents. If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply = remove them, having no solution for asking the device to generate a key = or install a hidden key. >=20 > 2) in trust-anchors, renamed "trust-anchors" to "truststore" >=20 > 3) in both truststore and keystore, moved everything under a = 'grouping' statement which is then used by a 'container'. This is = almost an editorial update. >=20 > 4) in tcp-client-server, added support for external NAT (we can remove = is preferred) >=20 > 5) in restconf-client-server, added an 'http-listen' (not = https-listen) choice, to support case when server is behind a = TLS-terminator. This draft isn't adopted yet, but this is driven by my = needing to support this use case in a project I'm working on. (ps: yes, = I'm implementing the entire ietf-restconf-server model). >=20 > 6) also in restconf-client-server, refactored the server module to be = more like other 'server' models. If folks like it, I will also apply = the same also to the client model, as well as to both the netconf = client/server models. Now the 'restconf-server-grouping' is just the = RC-specific bits (i.e., the "demux" container minus the container), = 'restconf-server-[listen|callhome]-stack-grouping' is the protocol stack = for a single connection, and 'restconf-server-app-grouping' is = effectively what was before (both listen+callhome for many = inbound/outbound endpoints). >=20 > There are other smaller changes, please see the change logs and diffs = for details. >=20 >=20 > PS: the chairs are hoping to enter crypto-types, truststore, and = keystore in Last Call in a couple weeks. There may be another update = to crypto-types draft before then pending on my Huawei co-authors. The = remainder of the drafts need more work before ready for Last Call. >=20 > Thanks, > Kent // contributor >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_2DA2288F-94A7-4754-8576-6D6914716581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = misspoke, the restconf-client-server draft is adopted (I was thinking = about the http-client-server draft).

K.

On Jun = 7, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:


The updates can be broadly described as thus:

1) in crypto-types, = replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' like equivalents. =  If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply remove them, = having no solution for asking the device to generate a key or install a = hidden key.

2) = in trust-anchors, renamed "trust-anchors" to "truststore"

3) in both truststore = and keystore, moved everything under a 'grouping' statement which is = then used by a 'container'.  This is almost an editorial = update.

4) in = tcp-client-server, added support for external NAT (we can remove is = preferred)

5) = in restconf-client-server, added an 'http-listen' (not https-listen) = choice, to support case when server is behind a TLS-terminator. =  This draft isn't adopted yet, but this is driven by my needing to = support this use case in a project I'm working on.  (ps: yes, I'm = implementing the entire ietf-restconf-server model).

6) also in = restconf-client-server, refactored the server module to be more like = other 'server' models.  If folks like it, I will also apply the = same also to the client model, as well as to both the netconf = client/server models.  Now the 'restconf-server-grouping' is just = the RC-specific bits (i.e., the "demux" container minus the container), = 'restconf-server-[listen|callhome]-stack-grouping' is the protocol stack = for a single connection, and 'restconf-server-app-grouping' is = effectively what was before (both listen+callhome for many = inbound/outbound endpoints).

There are other smaller changes, please = see the change logs and diffs for details.


PS: = the chairs are hoping to enter crypto-types, truststore, and keystore in = Last Call in a couple weeks.   There may be another update to = crypto-types draft before then pending on my Huawei co-authors.   = The remainder of the drafts need more work before ready for Last = Call.

Thanks,
Kent // contributor


_______________________________________________
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= --Apple-Mail=_2DA2288F-94A7-4754-8576-6D6914716581-- From nobody Mon Jun 10 16:22:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03055120025; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 16:22:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <156020896295.32199.7617469401232263908@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 16:22:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:22:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Dynamic subscription to YANG Events and Datastores over RESTCONF Authors : Eric Voit Reshad Rahman Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Alexander Clemm Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2019-06-10 Abstract: This document provides a RESTCONF binding to the dynamic subscription capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG-Push. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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charset=utf-8 Hi Reshad, Thank you for continuing to follow through on getting this = draft over the line. One thing I noticed in the latest diff is a leaning towards HTTP2 but, = AFIAK, dynamic subscriptions should work over HTTP1 as well, right? If = so, then I think that some text is needed to say this. Currently only = Appendix A mentions "HTTP1.1" in an aside sort of way and the first = "hit" for "HTTP" is for HTTP2 in the Terminology section. Section 3.1 = (Transport Connectivity) references RFC 8040 Section 2 (Transport = Protocol), which leads me to think that any RESTCONF connection is okay. = Maybe what is needed is that, wherever HTTP2 i mentioned, it should say = something like "if HTTP2 is used" or "when HTTP2 is used" - does that = make sense? nit: s/can not be 2/cannot be two/ Kent // shepherd > On Jun 10, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = wrote: >=20 > This revision is to address the IESG review comments. >=20 > Regards, > Reshad. >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-06-10, 7:23 PM, "netconf on behalf of = internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the = IETF. >=20 > Title : Dynamic subscription to YANG Events and = Datastores over RESTCONF > Authors : Eric Voit > Reshad Rahman > Einar Nilsen-Nygaard > Alexander Clemm > Andy Bierman > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14.txt > Pages : 28 > Date : 2019-06-10 >=20 > Abstract: > This document provides a RESTCONF binding to the dynamic = subscription > capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG-Push. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14= >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_CA825750-80DA-4EBC-91C4-D09F636A908D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Reshad, Thank you for continuing to follow through on getting this draft = over the line.

One = thing I noticed in the latest diff is a leaning towards HTTP2 but, = AFIAK, dynamic subscriptions should work over HTTP1 as well, right? =  If so, then I think that some text is needed to say this. =  Currently only Appendix A mentions "HTTP1.1" in an aside sort of = way and the first "hit" for "HTTP" is for HTTP2 in the Terminology = section.  Section 3.1 (Transport Connectivity) references RFC 8040 = Section 2 (Transport Protocol), which leads me to think that any = RESTCONF connection is okay.  Maybe what is needed is that, = wherever HTTP2 i mentioned, it should say something like "if HTTP2 is = used" or "when HTTP2 is used" - does that make sense?

nit:  s/can not be = 2/cannot be two/

Kent // = shepherd


On Jun = 10, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com> = wrote:

This revision is to address the IESG review comments.

Regards,
Reshad.

=EF=BB=BFOn 2019-06-10, 7:23 PM, "netconf on = behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org" <netconf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:


   A New Internet-Draft is = available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
=    This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration = WG of the IETF.

=            Title =           : Dynamic = subscription to YANG Events and Datastores over RESTCONF
=            Authors =         : Eric Voit
= =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;    Reshad Rahman
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;    Einar Nilsen-Nygaard
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;    Alexander Clemm
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;    Andy Bierman
=     Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14.txt
=     Pages =           : 28
    Date =            : = 2019-06-10

   Abstract:
      This document provides a = RESTCONF binding to the dynamic subscription
=       capability of both subscribed = notifications and YANG-Push.


=    The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-no= tif/

   There are also = htmlized versions available at:
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-1= 4
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restco= nf-notif-14

   A diff = from the previous version is available at:
=    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-restconf= -notif-14


=    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from = the time of submission
   until the = htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

   Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
   ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

=    _______________________________________________
   netconf mailing list
=    netconf@ietf.org
   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_CA825750-80DA-4EBC-91C4-D09F636A908D-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 10:40:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDBC120133 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ymL1Q2U-zPt1 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B921C12012A for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479D9654; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 6UpwSJHLAxHA; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0149E20128; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id HEbsT7WfNqYU; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B15F920126; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:25 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id DB3F3300A2A5AC; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:40:24 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:40:30 -0000 On Fri, Jun 07, 2019 at 10:28:09PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > The updates can be broadly described as thus: > > 1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' like equivalents. If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply remove them, having no solution for asking the device to generate a key or install a hidden key. > I am not sure this approach. This just hides the discussion in a special purpose construction: Without the optional '-and-hidden' postfix, the generated key pair is stored in the configuration data store as if the values had been configured by the client. A more general note: I assume that humans configuring systems are mostly familiar with common file formats for X.509 certificates like .pem files or similar. It seems these formats can't be used with the YANG module and that tools are needed to extract the pieces of data and to ship them to the server. Perhaps usability would be higher if the module would support upload/download of X.509 related material in commonly used formats. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 11 11:23:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6809120186 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31E1120059 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:17:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WQYha-KCZOk4 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C51B12003F for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560284219; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=LxIRH970HJTSU5Rh7Yl9g4jnAAeYicSxeF013nhR6i0=; b=VrOnOP1ExAneNzgU/g7f9Y1G+BAuKmjUfUaVRSw9KCikWo4WOOmdN1I+rQQM3TOH 467SKWch1M8+VttGPxiRIgAYsLb2vL9oA1uH0AMSGGAXL4EvnVxG5ZwUPEVLZ7EplON ubZD0vwVGsOJnlbCqmHzGikty3Zxyte/ZUqwzwag= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8ABEDB01-3D9F-42AD-8014-1DA4F308A118" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:16:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Andy Bierman References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.11-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:17:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8ABEDB01-3D9F-42AD-8014-1DA4F308A118 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Andy, So, by exclusion, is it fair to say that you support the NEW 7.8 and 7.9 = text? As for the 8.4.1 text, do you agree that there is a disconnect between = what's in 8.4.1 and the description for the 'persist' leaf (e.g., = current text says "the only way to abort a persistent confirmed commit = is to let the timer expire, or to use the operation."). = If so, then a clarifying statement is needed, the only question is what = it is. The choices are: a) 'persist' MUST span reboots. b) 'persist' MUST NOT span reboots. c) ' it is an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans = reboots. Personally, I'm okay with any of these as it seems the primary benefit = for 'persist' is still reaped (i.e., to survive a client-disconnect that = may occur due to the config being committed) and given that most devices = do not need to reboot in order to commit a configuration. =20 That said, some (IoT?) devices may need to reboot in order to apply any = configuration. If this ability does not support such devices, then they = would never be able to support 'commit confirmed' (with or without = 'persist') and hence may become bricks in some scenarios. Do we care? Kent // contributor > On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 alone and not change it > I don't agree there is any text to support this significant change in = server behavior. > An Errata should not make existing implementations non-compliant. > I don't see any text that indicates the original intent was to make a = confirmed commit > survive a reboot.=20 >=20 > If a parameter is provided by the client session, and then = that client session > terminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) to invoke = the > operation. The only remedy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the = device. > If the timeout is long or unknown) then waiting it out may not be a = good option. >=20 > With the new text, rebooting the device does not clear this situation >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = > wrote: > Hi Andy, >=20 > Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not = agree with what is being proposed. >=20 > Thanks >=20 >> On Jun 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed = commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 and Section 7.9 = , and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability. >>=20 >> We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with the = current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to = minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 = and 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that = in mind, we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately = look as follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are to enable = identifying the changes. >>=20 >> =20 >> OLD (as in original RFC 6241) >>=20 >> 7.8 . = >>=20 >> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >>=20 >> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it = will >> gracefully close the session. The server will release any = locks >> and resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any >> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a >> request will be ignored. >>=20 >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an >> is sent that includes an element. >>=20 >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>=20 >> Example: >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >>=20 >> NEW >>=20 >> 7.8 . = >>=20 >> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >>=20 >> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it = will >> gracefully close the session. The server will release any = locks >> and resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any >> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a >> request will be ignored. >>=20 >> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=20 >> request while processing a confirmed commit, >> please refer to Section 8.4 = . >>=20 >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an >> is sent that includes an element. >>=20 >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>=20 >> Example: >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >>=20 >> OLD (as in original RFC 6241). >>=20 >> 7.9 . = >>=20 >> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >>=20 >> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an >> open session, it will abort any operations currently in = process, >> release any locks and resources associated with the session, = and >> close any associated connections. >>=20 >> If a NETCONF server receives a request while >> processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 = ), it MUST restore the >> configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was = issued. >>=20 >> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >> configuration or other device state modifications made by the >> entity holding the lock. >>=20 >> Parameters: >>=20 >> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >> terminated. If this value is equal to the current session = ID, >> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >>=20 >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an >> is sent that includes an element. >>=20 >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>=20 >>=20 >> Example: >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> 4 >> >> >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >>=20 >> NEW >>=20 >> 7.9 . = >>=20 >> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >>=20 >> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an >> open session, it will abort any operations currently in = process, >> release any locks and resources associated with the session, = and >> close any associated connections. >>=20 >> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=20 >> request while processing a confirmed commit, >> please refer to Section 8.4 = . >>=20 >> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >> configuration or other device state modifications made by the >> entity holding the lock. >>=20 >> Parameters: >>=20 >> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >> terminated. If this value is equal to the current session = ID, >> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >>=20 >> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an >> is sent that includes an element. >>=20 >> Negative Response: An element is included in the >> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>=20 >>=20 >> Example: >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> 4 >> >> >>=20 >> > xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >> >> >>=20 >>=20 >> In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be = modified. >>=20 >> OLD: >>=20 >> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >> before the confirmed commit was issued. >>=20 >>=20 >> NEW: >>=20 >> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed = commit=20 >> also included a element. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a = server MUST support=20 >> continuation of a confirmed commit across a reboot.=20 >> Is that what this new text is meant to convey? >>=20 >> The new text could mean that if was provided that the = server MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration >> and terminate the confirmed commit procedure. >>=20 >> (There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows that = restoring the configuration >> also terminates the CC) >>=20 >>=20 >> Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these = changes. >>=20 >> Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Andy >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_8ABEDB01-3D9F-42AD-8014-1DA4F308A118 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Andy,

So, by exclusion, is it = fair to say that you support the NEW 7.8 and 7.9 text?

As for the 8.4.1 text, = do you agree that there is a disconnect between what's in 8.4.1 and the = description for the 'persist' leaf (e.g., current text says "the only = way to abort a persistent confirmed commit is to let the timer expire, = or to use the <cancel-commit> operation.").  If so, then a = clarifying statement is needed, the only question is what it is. The = choices are:

  a)  'persist' MUST span reboots.
  b)  'persist' MUST NOT span reboots.
  c) ' it is an implementation decision as to if = 'persist' spans reboots.

Personally, I'm okay with any of these as it seems the = primary benefit for 'persist' is still reaped (i.e., to survive a = client-disconnect that may occur due to the config being committed) and = given that most devices do not need to reboot in order to commit a = configuration.  

That said, some (IoT?) devices may need to reboot in order to = apply any configuration.  If this ability does not support such = devices, then they would never be able to support 'commit confirmed' = (with or without 'persist') and hence may become bricks in some = scenarios.  Do we care?

Kent  // contributor



On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Andy Bierman = <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

Hi,

I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 = alone and not change it
I don't agree there is any = text to support this significant change in server behavior.
An Errata should not make existing implementations = non-compliant.
I don't see any text that indicates = the original intent was to make a confirmed commit
survive a reboot. 

If a <persist> parameter is = provided by the client session, and then that client session
terminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) to = invoke the <cancel-commit>
operation.  = The only remedy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the = device.
If the timeout is long or unknown) then = waiting it out may not be a good option.

With the new text, rebooting the device = does not clear this situation


Andy


On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani = <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if = you do not agree with what is being proposed.

Thanks

On Jun = 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Fri, May 31, = 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of = confirmed commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 <close-session> = and Section 7.9 <kill-session>, and the text in Section 8.4 = Confirmed Commit Capability.

We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues = with the current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed = is to minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both = Section 7.8 and 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. = With that in mind, we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should = ultimately look as follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are = to enable identifying the changes.

 
OLD (as in original RFC 6241)

7.8.  = <close-session>

   D= escription:  Request graceful termination of a NETCONF = session.

    =   W= hen a NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, it = will
    =   g= racefully close the session.  The server will release any = locks
    =   a= nd resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any
    =   a= ssociated connections.  Any NETCONF requests received after = a
    =   &= lt;close-session> request will be ignored.

   P= ositive Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   N= egative Response:  An <rpc-error> element is included in = the
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.

   E= xample:

   =   &= lt;rpc message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;close-session/>
   =   &= lt;/rpc>

   =   &= lt;rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;ok/>
   =   &= lt;/rpc-reply>

NEW

7.8.  = <close-session>

   D= escription:  Request graceful termination of a NETCONF = session.

    =   W= hen a NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, it = will
    =   g= racefully close the session.  The server will release any = locks
    =   a= nd resources associated with the session and gracefully close = any
    =   a= ssociated connections.  Any NETCONF requests received after = a
    =   &= lt;close-session> request will be ignored.

      <= /span>For details on what happens if a NETCONF server = receives a 
      &= lt;close-session> request while processing a confirmed = commit,
      p= lease refer to <= a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#section-8.4" = target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Section 8.4.

   P= ositive Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   N= egative Response:  An <rpc-error> element is included in = the
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.

   E= xample:

   =   &= lt;rpc message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;close-session/>
   =   &= lt;/rpc>

   =   &= lt;rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;ok/>
   =   &= lt;/rpc-reply>

OLD (as in original RFC 6241).

7.9.  = <kill-session>

   D= escription:  Force the termination of a NETCONF = session.

    =   W= hen a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for = an
    =   o= pen session, it will abort any operations currently in = process,
    =   r= elease any locks and resources associated with the session, = and
    =   c= lose any associated connections.

    =   I= f a NETCONF server receives a <kill-session> request = while
    =   p= rocessing a confirmed commit (Section = 8.4), it MUST restore the
    =   c= onfiguration to its state before the confirmed commit was = issued.

    =   O= therwise, the <kill-session> operation does not roll = back
    =   c= onfiguration or other device state modifications made by = the
    =   e= ntity holding the lock.

   P= arameters:

    =   s= ession-id:  Session identifier of the NETCONF session to = be
     =     t= erminated.  If this value is equal to the current session = ID,
     =     a= n "invalid-value" error is returned.

   P= ositive Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   N= egative Response:  An <rpc-error> element is included in = the
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.


   E= xample:

   =   &= lt;rpc message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;kill-session>
     =     &= lt;session-id>4</session-id>
     =   &= lt;/kill-session>
   =   &= lt;/rpc>

   =   &= lt;rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;ok/>
   =   &= lt;/rpc-reply>

NEW

7.9.  = <kill-session>

   D= escription:  Force the termination of a NETCONF = session.

    =   W= hen a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for = an
    =   o= pen session, it will abort any operations currently in = process,
    =   r= elease any locks and resources associated with the session, = and
    =   c= lose any associated connections.

      <= /span>For details on what happens if a NETCONF server = receives a 
      &= lt;kill-session> request while processing a confirmed = commit,
      p= lease refer to <= a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#section-8.4" = target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Section 8.4.

    =   O= therwise, the <kill-session> operation does not roll = back
    =   c= onfiguration or other device state modifications made by = the
    =   e= ntity holding the lock.

   P= arameters:

    =   s= ession-id:  Session identifier of the NETCONF session to = be
     =     t= erminated.  If this value is equal to the current session = ID,
     =     a= n "invalid-value" error is returned.

   P= ositive Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   N= egative Response:  An <rpc-error> element is included in = the
    =   &= lt;rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.


   E= xample:

   =   &= lt;rpc message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;kill-session>
     =     &= lt;session-id>4</session-id>
     =   &= lt;/kill-session>
   =   &= lt;/rpc>

   =   &= lt;rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
      =     x= mlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
     =   &= lt;ok/>
   =   &= lt;/rpc-reply>


In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would = be modified.

OLD:

   I= f the device reboots for any reason before the confirm = timeout
   e= xpires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its = state
   b= efore the confirmed commit was issued.


NEW:

   I= f the device reboots for any reason before the confirm = timeout
   e= xpires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its = state
   b= efore the confirmed commit was issued, <= /span>unless the = confirmed commit 
   a= lso included a <persist> element.



I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies = that a server MUST support 
continuation of a = confirmed commit across a reboot. 
Is that = what this new text is meant to convey?

The new text could mean that if = <persist> was provided that the server MAY or SHOULD restore the = configuration
and terminate the confirmed commit = procedure.

(There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader = knows that restoring the configuration
also = terminates the CC)


Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to = accommodate these changes.

Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs)




Andy
 
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
<= /div>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



_______________________________________________
netconf = mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_8ABEDB01-3D9F-42AD-8014-1DA4F308A118-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 13:54:02 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70521200B3 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mdaINUeHiOIx for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF6D5120090 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:53:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560286437; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=qwQKmDLBM5DuZQmyD83/Qx3YK4jBQ2eem7DuwtK4AgE=; b=AWV5pfHyf/t3qLDxZgqH6XJtPW44G/Ar1xhPWK6nsslho3k3W/db/LT6H0LaJetm pKP89aDFU8FG8cAGR7K7Zu2hPrW0fjxSRKRSTF2HG5fGMIY7Ukqm1oySClqG9euoNwK nDI+aF0kIRwxI8Tmx2JHcEGuMhNhfd/xmvqU4obc= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5FF3316A-8833-4121-AFAC-820EA48426C1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:53:57 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.11-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:54:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5FF3316A-8833-4121-AFAC-820EA48426C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Juergen, Thanks for broaching the topic, I'm hoping we can suss out such things = before the drafts enter Last Call in 2-3 weeks. >> 1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with = 'crypt-hash' like equivalents. If folks don't like the "verbs", then we = can simply remove them, having no solution for asking the device to = generate a key or install a hidden key. >>=20 >=20 > I am not sure this approach. This just hides the discussion in a > special purpose construction: >=20 > Without the optional '-and-hidden' postfix, the = generated > key pair is stored in the configuration data store as if > the values had been configured by the client. True, this special purpose construction sidesteps us needing to resolve = the larger "can actions effect configuration" discussion. But perhaps = that is okay given that the need to have actions effecting configuration = is exceedingly rare? It's clear that you're not thrilled by this = approach, but it's unclear if the reason you're not thrilled is because = of the approach or because it's sidestepping the larger discussion. = Also, what do you propose we do about it? Choices: a) nix the "verbs", leaving the solution for asking the device to = generate a key and install a hidden key to a future update. b) resurrect the 'action' based discussion. c) cautiously move forward with the "verbs" approach. d) something else? > A more general note: I assume that humans configuring systems are > mostly familiar with common file formats for X.509 certificates like > .pem files or similar. It seems these formats can't be used with the > YANG module and that tools are needed to extract the pieces of data > and to ship them to the server. Perhaps usability would be higher if > the module would support upload/download of X.509 related material in > commonly used formats. This comment seems to apply to the entire client/server suite of drafts. = I believe that your statement regards the somewhat heavy use of CMS = structures for conveyed certificate chains, rather than the non-standard = though nearly ubiquitous concatenation of PEM-encoded certificates. I believe that bi-directional `openssl` based one-liners exist for = converting between CMS and concatenated-PEMs. Would it help if the = crypto-types draft included an Appendix section to supply the `openssl` = commands for just the 'trust-anchor-cert-cms' and 'end-entity-cert-cms' = typedefs? [FWIW, constructing said CMS structures in Python is = trivial.] Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_5FF3316A-8833-4121-AFAC-820EA48426C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Juergen,

Thanks for = broaching the topic, I'm hoping we can suss out such things before the = drafts enter Last Call in 2-3 weeks.


1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' = statements with 'crypt-hash' like equivalents.  If folks don't like = the "verbs", then we can simply remove them, having no solution for = asking the device to generate a key or install a hidden key.


I am not sure this = approach. This just hides the discussion in a
special = purpose construction:

=             &n= bsp; Without the optional '-and-hidden' postfix, the generated
=             &n= bsp; key pair is stored in the configuration data store as if
=             &n= bsp; the values had been configured by the client.


True, this special purpose construction sidesteps = us needing to resolve the larger "can actions effect configuration" = discussion.  But perhaps that is okay given that the need to have = actions effecting configuration is exceedingly rare?   It's clear = that you're not thrilled by this approach, but it's unclear if the = reason you're not thrilled is because of the approach or because it's = sidestepping the larger discussion.    Also, what do you = propose we do about it?  Choices:

a) nix the "verbs", leaving the solution for = asking the device to generate a key and install a hidden key to a future = update.
b) resurrect the 'action' based = discussion.
c) cautiously move forward with the "verbs" = approach.
d) something else?




A more general note: I assume that humans configuring systems = are
mostly familiar with common file formats for X.509 = certificates like
.pem files or similar. It seems these = formats can't be used with the
YANG module and that tools = are needed to extract the pieces of data
and to ship them = to the server. Perhaps usability would be higher if
the = module would support upload/download of X.509 related material in
commonly used formats.

This comment seems to apply to the entire client/server suite = of drafts.  I believe that your statement regards the somewhat = heavy use of CMS structures for conveyed certificate chains, rather than = the non-standard though nearly ubiquitous concatenation of PEM-encoded = certificates.

I = believe that bi-directional `openssl` based one-liners exist for = converting between CMS and concatenated-PEMs.  Would it help if the = crypto-types draft included an Appendix section to supply the `openssl` = commands for just the 'trust-anchor-cert-cms' and 'end-entity-cert-cms' = typedefs?  [FWIW, constructing said CMS structures in Python is = trivial.]


Kent // contributor



= --Apple-Mail=_5FF3316A-8833-4121-AFAC-820EA48426C1-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 14:18:57 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b48687180-05d46ca8-d13d-46ba-93e7-cac92b63e392-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE13120098 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:18:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 78MRFNMVuMij for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FA45120018 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:18:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560287932; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=SGK0Af92QPIjH33hGq3dfiHpJSpmOuLpLOe76HqjvgE=; b=hb1HlUdrfnuoecoswwHJa/K64ddUVQlqcCY8n53SS2y/p9jmo8xErhqiVhdqiXYV Vzp8v8lTU6rLffT2cq9EHpNOwLQaZN5cE/bkp8jcr0b2m6h4B3iMGx3RQaFKmUGxuOl 9okNgFuK+gIZ25m37PZD9mA768p/16wbaw457ezE= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b48687180-05d46ca8-d13d-46ba-93e7-cac92b63e392-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6BE0E4A0-0156-41DA-9B5D-3B107C46EBAA" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:18:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: <0537B9CE-83CF-4E5C-95AC-ABEB46C92804@cisco.com> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" References: <156020896295.32199.7617469401232263908@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b477bd2b9-b33bafa5-224c-43d4-9467-0ffbdae769e6-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0537B9CE-83CF-4E5C-95AC-ABEB46C92804@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.11-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:18:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6BE0E4A0-0156-41DA-9B5D-3B107C46EBAA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Reshad, > Yes, this is over RESTCONF so http1.1/http2 are both ok. One change = = which was done ~8 months ago is to have 1 callflow =E2=80=9Cover = RESTCONF/SSE=E2=80=9D as opposed to the previous separate callflows for = http1.1 and http2. The reason http2 is mentioned in a few places is = because of http2 streams. Section 4 already mentions =E2=80=9Cwhere = HTTP2 is available to=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, so it looks like section 3.4 is = the only place missing =E2=80=9Cwhen HTTP2 is used=E2=80=9D? I recall that conversion and hence my alarm seeing all the HTTP2 text. = Yes, adding "when/if HTTP2 is used" everywhere, to constantly remind the = reader that it may not always be the case would be good. =20 For Section 4, would replacing "where HTTP2 transport is available" with = "when the HTTP2 transport is used" be better? Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_6BE0E4A0-0156-41DA-9B5D-3B107C46EBAA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Reshad,

Yes, this is over RESTCONF so http1.1/http2 are both ok. = One change which was done ~8 months ago is to have 1 = callflow =E2=80=9Cover RESTCONF/SSE=E2=80=9D as opposed to the previous = separate callflows for http1.1 and http2. The reason http2 is mentioned = in a few places is because of http2 streams. Section 4 already mentions = =E2=80=9Cwhere HTTP2 is available to=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, so it looks like = section 3.4 is the only place missing =E2=80=9Cwhen HTTP2 is = used=E2=80=9D?

I = recall that conversion and hence my alarm seeing all the HTTP2 text. =  Yes, adding "when/if HTTP2 is used" everywhere, to constantly = remind the reader that it may not always be the case would be good. =    

For Section 4, would = replacing "where HTTP2 transport is available" with "when the HTTP2 = transport is used" be better?


Kent // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_6BE0E4A0-0156-41DA-9B5D-3B107C46EBAA-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 14:19:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA34120098 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:19:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K8blBYrWbydC for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9A22120018 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id m23so13063723lje.12 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:19:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2sVou4NwCa5XNhT9rXoYWhz/Neh/QA87A/UZuL2VKkk=; b=wWs/vCnZs2q0Cbr42j4QBRvg9ZjjFI59daYh4PWJikLcH8AoXeOcBYIXtxFSwsyrVb 7ZcfolFsM+XLOOShvl+gU+3ABgUSL3flkwzofBvWj5HJTiItY1jjfNXuq9RZuMqA9aWB oFjbZBCTXuMxc0SltujXgFjvHr3fsNuZTyaMdwiJBIQxlM9OIg/nRqMzVeto0RmCnFSb 9QKKuRgJvZwbUHkhWeLGBSCJaFqe7/Bj8+fBJJ9+1nKG6NML5/ryoTpBQ5S4eEL1MR+f 3u7f1NDStd5LXxem4xWdL1+2Qec8oA1Voutjp+VRjGvN31D4WZGMNiOkWct9yRUH8ee0 Ro/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2sVou4NwCa5XNhT9rXoYWhz/Neh/QA87A/UZuL2VKkk=; b=p1b8cBLpQZpsx1HZylnXsurOcNaaekQQVc+O6YwLqLyyjC5pAwHpTJAs/KPpgQnTbS gdzSb34VDWdVJIJnxsxM9zdTFIIImK8Jqsn/7CrOhhf3yF1rO9CQa2p+fdxeNi9uwvXK JrTZofyFnT6e8OrsD4J0E+gDV5Tl7HN9DVkenkVRBdEok21nhY25foYEGszKbmOQo8ea kMlSCMAdNaEU+GUY4cdbMXUyQe7HXJ0D5TYAHWt25K9q8h98orNpZi0uw1HWIgs10CXJ xXmyl3P9VbQLiY1XEsBTjyUtgq/zXH5VuE6ve9gKvEMaykNzxOjDG0AEKO8QEECBF4xW znGg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWPmx46pm4N96WnUmYQfo5b5u/o/JkMsaht9RZlJNHOOHkfGBiL MB+v8cmB7Pp0NcMpXb96wUp3BJKONkEHww5D0XxluQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyoTEuSl7sTyZeiMUEwjNYBS3EDDS7vdYBZdF25CS/axouz4Ht7zj/xVyxXqxZ5svjai2JhmrOAcfOM0zjBuo0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a87:: with SMTP id p7mr16912552lji.133.1560287956732; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:19:05 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000068b767058b12d985" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:19:23 -0000 --00000000000068b767058b12d985 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > So, by exclusion, is it fair to say that you support the NEW 7.8 and 7.9 > text? > > They defer to section 8.4 which fine > As for the 8.4.1 text, do you agree that there is a disconnect between > what's in 8.4.1 and the description for the 'persist' leaf (e.g., current > text says "the only way to abort a persistent confirmed commit is to let > the timer expire, or to use the operation."). If so, then > a clarifying statement is needed, the only question is what it is. The > choices are: > > a) 'persist' MUST span reboots. > b) 'persist' MUST NOT span reboots. > c) ' it is an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots. > > Personally, I'm okay with any of these as it seems the primary benefit for > 'persist' is still reaped (i.e., to survive a client-disconnect that may > occur due to the config being committed) and given that most devices do not > need to reboot in order to commit a configuration. > > IMO the text most strongly supports (b) [para 6]. It could be argued that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot does cause a session termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests the server is still running but the client session is terminated [para 5] If the session issuing the confirmed commit is terminated for any reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit also included a element. [para 6] If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is in para 5. That said, some (IoT?) devices may need to reboot in order to apply any > configuration. If this ability does not support such devices, then they > would never be able to support 'commit confirmed' (with or without > 'persist') and hence may become bricks in some scenarios. Do we care? > > Kent // contributor > > > Andy > > On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 alone and not change it > I don't agree there is any text to support this significant change in > server behavior. > An Errata should not make existing implementations non-compliant. > I don't see any text that indicates the original intent was to make a > confirmed commit > survive a reboot. > > If a parameter is provided by the client session, and then that > client session > terminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) to invoke the > > operation. The only remedy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the > device. > If the timeout is long or unknown) then waiting it out may not be a good > option. > > With the new text, rebooting the device does not clear this situation > > > Andy > > > On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani < > mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Andy, >> >> Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not >> agree with what is being proposed. >> >> Thanks >> >> On Jun 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani < >> mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed commit >>> in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 and Section 7.9 >>> , and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability. >>> >>> We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with the >>> current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to >>> minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 and >>> 7.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that in mind, >>> we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately look as >>> follows. Note, the highlights in all the sections are to enable identifying >>> the changes. >>> >>> >>> OLD (as in original RFC 6241) >>> >>> *7.8* *. >>> * >>> >>> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >>> >>> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will >>> gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks >>> and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any >>> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a >>> request will be ignored. >>> >>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >>> is sent that includes an element. >>> >>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> >>> >>> NEW >>> >>> *7.8* *. >>> * >>> >>> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. >>> >>> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will >>> gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks >>> and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any >>> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a >>> request will be ignored. >>> >>> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a >>> request while processing a confirmed commit, >>> please refer to Section 8.4 >>> . >>> >>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >>> is sent that includes an element. >>> >>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> >>> >>> OLD (as in original RFC 6241). >>> >>> *7.9* *. >>> * >>> >>> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >>> >>> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an >>> open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, >>> release any locks and resources associated with the session, and >>> close any associated connections. >>> >>> If a NETCONF server receives a request while >>> processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 >>> ), it MUST restore the >>> configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. >>> >>> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >>> configuration or other device state modifications made by the >>> entity holding the lock. >>> >>> Parameters: >>> >>> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >>> terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, >>> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >>> >>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >>> is sent that includes an element. >>> >>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>> >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> 4 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> >>> >>> NEW >>> >>> *7.9* *. >>> * >>> >>> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >>> >>> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an >>> open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, >>> release any locks and resources associated with the session, and >>> close any associated connections. >>> >>> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a >>> request while processing a confirmed commit, >>> please refer to Section 8.4 >>> . >>> >>> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >>> configuration or other device state modifications made by the >>> entity holding the lock. >>> >>> Parameters: >>> >>> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >>> terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, >>> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >>> >>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an >>> is sent that includes an element. >>> >>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>> if the request cannot be completed for any reason. >>> >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> 4 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified. >>> >>> OLD: >>> >>> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >>> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >>> before the confirmed commit was issued. >>> >>> >>> NEW: >>> >>> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >>> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >>> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit >>> also included a element. >>> >>> >> >> I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a >> server MUST support >> continuation of a confirmed commit across a reboot. >> Is that what this new text is meant to convey? >> >> The new text could mean that if was provided that the server >> MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration >> and terminate the confirmed commit procedure. >> >> (There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows that >> restoring the configuration >> also terminates the CC) >> >> >> Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these >>> changes. >>> >>> Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs) >>> >>> >>> >> >> Andy >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing list >>> netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> Mahesh Jethanandani >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --00000000000068b767058b12d985 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent = Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrote= :

Hi Andy,

So, by exclusion, is it fair to say that you support the NEW 7.8 and= 7.9 text?


They = defer to section 8.4 which fine
=C2=A0
As for the 8.4.1 text, do you agree that there is a disconnect = between what's in 8.4.1 and the description for the 'persist' l= eaf (e.g., current text says "the only way to abort a persistent confi= rmed commit is to let the timer expire, or to use the <cancel-commit>= operation.").=C2=A0 If so, then a clarifying statement is needed, the= only question is what it is. The choices are:

=C2= =A0 a) =C2=A0'persist' MUST span reboots.
=C2=A0 b) =C2= =A0'persist' MUST NOT span reboots.
=C2=A0 c) ' it is= an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots.
=

Personally, I'm okay with any of these as it seems = the primary benefit for 'persist' is still reaped (i.e., to survive= a client-disconnect that may occur due to the config being committed) and = given that most devices do not need to reboot in order to commit a configur= ation. =C2=A0


IM= O the text most strongly supports (b) [para 6].
It could be argue= d that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot does cause a session
termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggest= s the server is still running
but the client session is terminate= d

[para 5]
   If the session issuing the confirmed commit is te=
rminated for any
   reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore
   the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was
   issued, unless the confirmed commit also included a <persist>
   element.

[para 6]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0  If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout=

   exp=
ires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state
   before the confirmed commit was issued.


I think (c) is OK since it not=
 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is in para 5.


That said, some =
(IoT?) devices may need to reboot in order to apply any configuration.=C2=
=A0 If this ability does not support such devices, then they would never be=
 able to support 'commit confirmed' (with or without 'persist&#=
39;) and hence may become bricks in some scenarios.=C2=A0 Do we care?
=


Kent =C2=A0// contributor


=


Andy
=C2=A0

On Jun 4, =
2019, at 4:16 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

Hi,

I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 =
alone and not change it
I don't agree there is any text to su=
pport this significant change in server behavior.
An Errata shoul=
d not make existing implementations non-compliant.
I don't se=
e any text that indicates the original intent was to make a confirmed commi=
t
survive a reboot.=C2=A0

If a <persi=
st> parameter is provided by the client session, and then that client se=
ssion
terminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) t=
o invoke the <cancel-commit>
operation.=C2=A0 The only reme=
dy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the device.
If the timeou=
t is long or unknown) then waiting it out may not be a good option.

With the new text, rebooting the device does not clear th=
is situation


Andy


On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>=
; wrote:
Hi=
 Andy,

Please provide alternative text in the form of OL=
D/NEW, if you do not agree with what is being proposed.

Thanks

On Jun 3, 2019, at =
8:24 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:


On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM=
 Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

=

Several attempts have been made=
 to clarify the role of confirmed commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 =
<close-session> and Section 7.9 <kill-session>, and the text in=
 Section 8.4 Confirmed Commit Capability.

We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with t=
he current set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to mi=
nimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 and 7=
.9 and defer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that in mind, =
we are proposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately look as follows=
. Note, the highlights in all the sections are to enable identifying the ch=
anges.

=C2=A0
OLD (as in original RF=
C 6241)

7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Description:=
=C2=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When=
 a NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, it will<=
/div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0and resources associated with the session a=
nd gracefully close any
=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0associated connections.=C2=A0=
 Any NETCONF requests received after a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-sess=
ion> request will be ignored.

=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the devic=
e was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0<rpc-reply&g=
t; is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=
=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=
<rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.=


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0E=
xample:

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-id=
=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:i=
etf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0&l=
t;close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-=
reply message-id=3D"101"
<=
span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmln=
s=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>

=
NEW

7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Description:=C2=
=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a =
NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0gracefully close the session.=C2=A0 The server will release an=
y locks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0and resources associated with the session and=
 gracefully close any
=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0associated connections.=C2=A0 =
Any NETCONF requests received after a
=C2=A0<close-sessi=
on> request will be ignored.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session> request while p=
rocessing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0pl=
ease refer to=C2=A0Section 8.4.

=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the de=
vice was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-repl=
y> is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response=
:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.

=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0&=
quot;>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=
</rpc>
=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"<=
/span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:=
netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0</rpc-reply>

OLD (as in original RFC 6241).

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-session>

=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0Description:=C2=A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0When a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request =
for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0open session, it will abort any operations cur=
rently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0release any locks and resources a=
ssociated with the session, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0close any associated =
connections.
<=
/span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0If a NETCONF server receives a <kill-session&g=
t; request while
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0=C2=A0processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4), it MUST restore t=
he
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration to its state before the confirmed co=
mmit was issued.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwis=
e, the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration or other device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0entity holding the lock.

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Parameters:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0sessio=
n-id:=C2=A0 Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the curren=
t session ID,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0an "invalid-value&quo=
t; error is returned.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able =
to satisfy the request, an
=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> is sent =
that includes an <ok> element.

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <=
;rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-rep=
ly> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:
=


=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=
<rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xm=
lns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
<=
div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no=
rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<=
session-id>4</session-id>
<=
span>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</kill-se=
ssion>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0<=
span class=3D"gmail-m_-2356660198013488188gmail-m_-7255355645366113168Apple=
-converted-space">=C2=A0</rpc>

<=
span>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply messa=
ge-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"u=
rn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>

NEW

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Description:=C2=A0 =
Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

<=
span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a NETCONF ent=
ity receives a <kill-session> request for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=
open session, it will abort any operations currently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0release any locks and resources associated with the session, a=
nd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0close any associated connections.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For details on what happens if a NETCONF ser=
ver receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<kill-se=
ssion> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0please refer to=C2=A0Section 8.4.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Oth=
erwise, the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
<=
div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no=
rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0configuration or other device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0entity holding the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Parameters:
=


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0session-id:=C2=A0 Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the =
current session ID,
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0an "invalid-va=
lue" error is returned.

=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device w=
as able to satisfy the request, an
<=
span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> =
is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 =
An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<r=
pc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:=


=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<=
/span><rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"><=
/div>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<session-id>4</session-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</k=
ill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-re=
ply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=
=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>


In a=
ddition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified.
<=
div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:norm=
al;min-height:20px">
OLD:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<=
/span>expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0before the confirmed commit was issued.


NEW:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the device reboots for any reason before the conf=
irm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server MUST restore the configuratio=
n to its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0before the confirmed commit was issued,=C2=A0unless=
 the confirmed commit=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0also include=
d a <persist> element.

=


I do not agree at all that the original text =
says or implies that a server MUST support=C2=A0
continuation of =
a confirmed commit across a reboot.=C2=A0
Is that what this new t=
ext is meant to convey?

The new text could mean th=
at if <persist> was provided that the server MAY or SHOULD restore th=
e configuration
and terminate the confirmed commit procedure.

(There is text in multiple places that assumes the re=
ader knows that restoring the configuration
also terminates the C=
C)


Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these chang=
es.

Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs)

<=
br>


Andy
=C2=
=A0
_____=
__________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf



Mahesh Jethanandani








_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
=
netconf@ietf.org<=
br>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

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--_000_A14BBEB12B9A4174B30FB4BC7686953Bciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 14:45:08 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b4880682b-0575e550-3c6d-49ed-996d-c7c160653d79-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71404120098 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:45:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AcvQD_4XTkje for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 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OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:45:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" References: <156020896295.32199.7617469401232263908@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b477bd2b9-b33bafa5-224c-43d4-9467-0ffbdae769e6-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0537B9CE-83CF-4E5C-95AC-ABEB46C92804@cisco.com> <0100016b48687180-05d46ca8-d13d-46ba-93e7-cac92b63e392-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.11-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-14.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:45:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_26503B66-CB1C-4050-8583-F36F167D6E4D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > OK. Everywhere to me means section 3.4 and section 4 (where I=E2=80=99l= l change the text to =E2=80=9Cwhen HTTP2 is used=E2=80=9D), good? Perhaps, most likely, but I leave it to you. In general, please search = for "HTTP2" throughout and apply this clarification where missing. K. --Apple-Mail=_26503B66-CB1C-4050-8583-F36F167D6E4D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
OK. =  Everywhere to me means section 3.4 and section 4 (where I=E2=80=99ll= change the text to =E2=80=9Cwhen HTTP2 is used=E2=80=9D), = good?

Perhaps, most likely, but I leave it to you. =   In general, please search for "HTTP2" throughout and apply this = clarification where missing.

K.



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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3485; H:VI1PR07MB4735.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 3Xq25YHKE2QD0THbrwWr5llolzojsk7NbTymjxQVWmx/vxro7qlrNrdyhvZCUQjpQ+ppggFtQshUHIqo0/PlEIlzB1NooKqTH1dEWQ4lxQ9agWI90xMHdYaYT+OzhoDdn36Va6v21htW7MfB4D2E4TU1Odr/7Bl2GbdWCazw3OGXwY1EMuA9Y1ypONHdPR84RNepVEbzoirvic3s6k7gaRUZwMuOudezgdSDA20Qy8IcDToDr6tydhxDs7ynKBWkqu1lfrb8BzxqzM1S6C/Po1qLLoAWn6hk4gnkeRzVYpxr1wxyGYxwL1cT+x5aObPda+2a6HQPJKwrnZ+n0rZ7oXJMlUa9aqmn7TUXvpC+tB3SOe5OdMbLB/plQcXxAzsiRfCyTls8jPxvM1Rg3LAISQCevg8Su8HsAxaJbAIh9C8= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_VI1PR07MB4735046FD5C54DF0763BA80583EC0VI1PR07MB4735eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4ccb0a42-9186-4838-e2a4-08d6ef166cf5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Jun 2019 09:14:51.4697 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.kovacs@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3485 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] draft-ietf-keystore - certificate leafref X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:14:57 -0000 --_000_VI1PR07MB4735046FD5C54DF0763BA80583EC0VI1PR07MB4735eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kent, Ietf-keystore model contains this leafref: typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref { type leafref { path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key" + "/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name"; } description "This typedef enables modules to easily define a reference to a specific certificate associated with an asymmetric key stored in the keystore."; } Shouldn't the leafref be constrained to point to a certificate within a spe= cific asymmetric-key list element? Example: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/m0s9xAcDpJVm1a0-eWyTDvpXtZ0 Best Regards, Balazs --_000_VI1PR07MB4735046FD5C54DF0763BA80583EC0VI1PR07MB4735eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent,

 

Ietf-keystore model contains this leafref:

 

     typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref {=

       type leafref {
         path "/ks:keysto=
re/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key"
            =
3; "/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name";
       }
       description
         "This typedef en=
ables modules to easily define a reference
          to a specific c=
ertificate associated with an asymmetric key
          stored in the k=
eystore.";
     }

 

Shouldn’t the leafref be constrained to point = to a certificate within a specific asymmetric-key list element?<= /p>

 

Example:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netm= od/m0s9xAcDpJVm1a0-eWyTDvpXtZ0

 

Best Regards,

Balazs

 

 

--_000_VI1PR07MB4735046FD5C54DF0763BA80583EC0VI1PR07MB4735eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 03:39:47 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b4b459a4b-58d12364-7b0d-4f73-8fb4-66a9d8595079-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC9912007A for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:39:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VQnbxwpgUTvC for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAEAB12008D for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:39:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560335981; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=SC9WMbhDxvNPvVUIiY6U7xoGM6VNwlN5aYfNzfG6jgo=; b=nNirtjoZ9zZdffe5SJY2o4fG26zq67oVUmLc4C3rsXsrJh2MwhOuM2MKL49qDk6b u6IskYmys7FNOeSzY+MfCffZiZACBLJtVBpzx9E5bwSLadbPDyA3xz/haMBwoLkSdgA faFzuJBPBLO3oJhoTi8xeX4nmMlst6ApXV0/c4vU= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E3AA98EE-A61F-45FA-98AE-20E68C0C1729 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:39:41 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <0100016b4b459a4b-58d12364-7b0d-4f73-8fb4-66a9d8595079-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Kov=C3=A1cs?= X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.12-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] draft-ietf-keystore - certificate leafref X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:39:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail-E3AA98EE-A61F-45FA-98AE-20E68C0C1729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Balazs, Yes, that would be better. Please provide the NEW text needed.=20 Kent=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 12, 2019, at 5:14 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > Ietf-keystore model contains this leafref: > =20 > typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref { > type leafref { > path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key" > + "/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name"; > } > description > "This typedef enables modules to easily define a reference > to a specific certificate associated with an asymmetric key > stored in the keystore."; > } > =20 > Shouldn=E2=80=99t the leafref be constrained to point to a certificate wit= hin a specific asymmetric-key list element? > =20 > Example: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/m0s9xAcDpJVm1a0-eWyTDvpXtZ0 > =20 > Best Regards, > Balazs > =20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-E3AA98EE-A61F-45FA-98AE-20E68C0C1729 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Balazs,

Yes, that would be better.  Please provide the NEW text needed. =

Kent 

= Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2019, at 5:14 AM, B= al=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs <bal= azs.kovacs@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Kent,

 

Ietf-keystore model contains this leafref:=

 

     typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref {<=
/o:p>
       type leafref {
         path "/ks:keystore/ks:=
asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key"
            + "/=
ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name";
       }
       description
         "This typedef enables m=
odules to easily define a reference
          to a specific ce=
rtificate associated with an asymmetric key
          stored in the ke=
ystore.";
     }

 

Shouldn=E2=80=99t the leafref be constrained to point= to a certificate within a specific asymmetric-key list element?<= /p>

 

Example:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod= /m0s9xAcDpJVm1a0-eWyTDvpXtZ0

 

Best Regards,

Balazs

 

 

= --Apple-Mail-E3AA98EE-A61F-45FA-98AE-20E68C0C1729-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 04:16:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882D9120120 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:16:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9ZgXaFilXyW for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from egyptian.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (egyptian.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C05071200B6 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dxszz3qpvg|x-authuser|jonathan@hansfords.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AA9140702; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:15:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.myfast.site (100-96-85-75.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.85.75]) (Authenticated sender: dxszz3qpvg) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 96C4E141528; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:15:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dxszz3qpvg|x-authuser|jonathan@hansfords.net Received: from mail.myfast.site ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [81.19.215.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.2); Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:15:59 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dxszz3qpvg|x-authuser|jonathan@hansfords.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dxszz3qpvg X-Shelf-Obese: 61e0075e08e5a50c_1560338159274_2890827254 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1560338159274:1969808845 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1560338159274 Received: from [51.52.247.166] (port=50179 helo=[172.16.3.14]) by localhost.localdomain with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hb1EL-00Gl8F-Bb; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:15:50 +0100 From: "Jonathan Hansford" To: "Andy Bierman" , "Kent Watsen" Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:16:05 +0000 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> Reply-To: "Jonathan Hansford" User-Agent: eM_Client/7.2.34959.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MB03DBEB89-E247-46E0-A1E9-8A11845083C1" X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190611-4, 11/06/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AuthUser: jonathan@hansfords.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:16:07 -0000 --------=_MB03DBEB89-E247-46E0-A1E9-8A11845083C1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11/06/2019 22:19:05, "Andy Bierman" wrote: > > >On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen wrote: >> >>Hi Andy, >> >>So, by exclusion, is it fair to say that you support the NEW 7.8 and >>7.9 text? >> > >They defer to section 8.4 which fine > >>As for the 8.4.1 text, do you agree that there is a disconnect between >>what's in 8.4.1 and the description for the 'persist' leaf (e.g., >>current text says "the only way to abort a persistent confirmed commit >>is to let the timer expire, or to use the >>operation."). If so, then a clarifying statement is needed, the only >>question is what it is. The choices are: >> >> a) 'persist' MUST span reboots. >> b) 'persist' MUST NOT span reboots. >> c) ' it is an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans >>reboots. >> >>Personally, I'm okay with any of these as it seems the primary benefit >>for 'persist' is still reaped (i.e., to survive a client-disconnect >>that may occur due to the config being committed) and given that most >>devices do not need to reboot in order to commit a configuration. > With (c), how does a client know what each server has implemented, and how does a server know what each client has implemented? And what if your clients and servers have all implemented, say, (a) and then you need to add a client or server that has implemented (b)? > >> >> > >IMO the text most strongly supports (b) [para 6]. >It could be argued that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot >does cause a session >termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests the >server is still running >but the client session is terminated > >[para 5] > If the session issuing the confirmed commit is terminated for any > reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore > the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was > issued, unless the confirmed commit also included a > element. > >[para 6] > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued. > > >I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is in= para 5. > > >>That said, some (IoT?) devices may need to reboot in order to apply >>any configuration. If this ability does not support such devices, >>then they would never be able to support 'commit confirmed' (with or >>without 'persist') and hence may become bricks in some scenarios. Do >>we care? >> >>Kent // contributor >> >> > >Andy > >> >>>On Jun 4, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 alone and not change it >>>I don't agree there is any text to support this significant change in >>>server behavior. >>>An Errata should not make existing implementations non-compliant. >>>I don't see any text that indicates the original intent was to make a >>>confirmed commit >>>survive a reboot. >>> >>>If a parameter is provided by the client session, and then >>>that client session >>>terminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) to invoke >>>the >>>operation. The only remedy is to wait for the timeout or reboot the >>>device. >>>If the timeout is long or unknown) then waiting it out may not be a >>>good option. >>> >>>With the new text, rebooting the device does not clear this situation >>> >>> >>>Andy >>> >>> >>>On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani >>> wrote: >>>>Hi Andy, >>>> >>>>Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do >>>>not agree with what is being proposed. >>>> >>>>Thanks >>>> >>>>>On Jun 3, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jethanandani >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>Several attempts have been made to clarify the role of confirmed >>>>>>commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 and >>>>>>Section 7.9 , and the text in Section 8.4 Confirmed >>>>>>Commit Capability. >>>>>> >>>>>>We, (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with >>>>>>the current set of erratum that already exist or are being >>>>>>proposed is to minimize re-explaining the role of confirmed commit >>>>>>in both Section 7.8 and 7..9 and defer the explanation to Section >>>>>>8.4 of the RFC. With that in mind, we are proposing that Section >>>>>>7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately look as follows.. Note, the >>>>>>highlights in all the sections are to enable identifying the >>>>>>changes. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>OLD (as in original RFC 6241) >>>>>> >>>>>>7.8 . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF >>>>>>session. >>>>>> >>>>>> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it >>>>>>will >>>>>> gracefully close the session. The server will release any >>>>>>locks >>>>>> and resources associated with the session and gracefully >>>>>>close any >>>>>> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after >>>>>>a >>>>>> request will be ignored. >>>>>> >>>>>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the >>>>>>request, an >>>>>> is sent that includes an element. >>>>>> >>>>>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>>>>> if the request cannot be completed for any >>>>>>reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> Example: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>NEW >>>>>> >>>>>>7.8 . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF >>>>>>session. >>>>>> >>>>>> When a NETCONF server receives a request, it >>>>>>will >>>>>> gracefully close the session. The server will release any >>>>>>locks >>>>>> and resources associated with the session and gracefully >>>>>>close any >>>>>> associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after >>>>>>a >>>>>> request will be ignored. >>>>>> >>>>>> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a >>>>>> request while processing a confirmed commit, >>>>>> please refer to Section 8.4 >>>>>>. >>>>>> >>>>>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the >>>>>>request, an >>>>>> is sent that includes an element. >>>>>> >>>>>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>>>>> if the request cannot be completed for any >>>>>>reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> Example: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>OLD (as in original RFC 6241). >>>>>> >>>>>>7.9 . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >>>>>> >>>>>> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for >>>>>>an >>>>>> open session, it will abort any operations currently in >>>>>>process, >>>>>> release any locks and resources associated with the session, >>>>>>and >>>>>> close any associated connections. >>>>>> >>>>>> If a NETCONF server receives a request while >>>>>> processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 >>>>>>), it MUST >>>>>>restore the >>>>>> configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was >>>>>>issued. >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >>>>>> configuration or other device state modifications made by >>>>>>the >>>>>> entity holding the lock. >>>>>> >>>>>> Parameters: >>>>>> >>>>>> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >>>>>> terminated. If this value is equal to the current >>>>>>session ID, >>>>>> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >>>>>> >>>>>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the >>>>>>request, an >>>>>> is sent that includes an element. >>>>>> >>>>>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>>>>> if the request cannot be completed for any >>>>>>reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Example: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>NEW >>>>>> >>>>>>7.9 . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. >>>>>> >>>>>> When a NETCONF entity receives a request for >>>>>>an >>>>>> open session, it will abort any operations currently in >>>>>>process, >>>>>> release any locks and resources associated with the session, >>>>>>and >>>>>> close any associated connections. >>>>>> >>>>>> For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a >>>>>> request while processing a confirmed commit, >>>>>> please refer to Section 8.4 >>>>>>. >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise, the operation does not roll back >>>>>> configuration or other device state modifications made by >>>>>>the >>>>>> entity holding the lock. >>>>>> >>>>>> Parameters: >>>>>> >>>>>> session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be >>>>>> terminated. If this value is equal to the current >>>>>>session ID, >>>>>> an "invalid-value" error is returned. >>>>>> >>>>>> Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the >>>>>>request, an >>>>>> is sent that includes an element. >>>>>> >>>>>> Negative Response: An element is included in the >>>>>> if the request cannot be completed for any >>>>>>reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Example: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>In addition, the following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be >>>>>>modified. >>>>>> >>>>>>OLD: >>>>>> >>>>>> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >>>>>> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >>>>>> before the confirmed commit was issued. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>NEW: >>>>>> >>>>>> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >>>>>> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >>>>>> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed >>>>>>commit >>>>>> also included a element. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I do not agree at all that the original text says or implies that a >>>>>server MUST support >>>>>continuation of a confirmed commit across a reboot. >>>>>Is that what this new text is meant to convey? >>>>> >>>>>The new text could mean that if was provided that the >>>>>server MAY or SHOULD restore the configuration >>>>>and terminate the confirmed commit procedure. >>>>> >>>>>(There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader knows >>>>>that restoring the configuration >>>>>also terminates the CC) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Current Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate >>>>>>these changes. >>>>>> >>>>>>Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Andy >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>netconf mailing list >>>>>>netconf@ietf.org >>>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>> >>>>Mahesh Jethanandani >>>>mjethanandani@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>netconf mailing list >>>netconf@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------=_MB03DBEB89-E247-46E0-A1E9-8A11845083C1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 11/06/2019 22:19:05, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM K= ent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> w= rote:

Hi Andy,
=
So, by exclusion, is it fair to say that you support the N= EW 7.8 and 7.9 text?


They defer to section 8.4 which fine
=C2=A0
As for the 8.4.1 text, do you agree that there is = a disconnect between what's in 8.4.1 and the description for the 'persist' = leaf (e.g., current text says "the only way to abort a persistent confirme= d commit is to let the timer expire, or to use the <cancel-commit> op= eration.").=C2=A0 If so, then a clarifying statement is needed, the only qu= estion is what it is. The choices are:

=C2=A0 a) = =C2=A0'persist' MUST span reboots.
=C2=A0 b) =C2=A0'persist' MUS= T NOT span reboots.
=C2=A0 c) ' it is an implementation decision= as to if 'persist' spans reboots.

Personally, I'= m okay with any of these as it seems the primary benefit for 'persist' is s= till reaped (i.e., to survive a client-disconnect that may occur due to the = config being committed) and given that most devices do not need to reboot= in order to commit a configuration. =C2=A0

With (c), how does= a client know what each server has implemented, and how does a server know= what each client has implemented? And what if your clients and servers have = all implemented, say, (a) and then you need to add a client or server that = has implemented (b)?




IMO the text mos= t strongly supports (b) [para 6].
It could be argued that [para 5= ] supports (a) because a server reboot does cause a session
termi= nation, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests the server i= s still running
but the client session is terminated
[para 5]
   If the session issuing the confirmed commit is terminated for =
any
   reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore
   the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was
   issued, unless the confirmed commit also included a <persist>
   element.

=

[para 6]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 I= f the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout
= 
   expires, the s=
erver MUST restore the configuration to its state
   before the confirmed commit was issued.

I think (c) is OK since it n= ot 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is in para 5.


That said, some (IoT= ?) devices may need to reboot in order to apply any configuration.=C2=A0 If = this ability does not support such devices, then they would never be able= to support 'commit confirmed' (with or without 'persist') and hence may bec= ome bricks in some scenarios.=C2=A0 Do we care?

= Kent =C2=A0// contributor



Andy
=C2=A0
=

On Jun= 4, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

H= i,

I prefer to leave the old text in 8.4.1 alone and n= ot change it
I don't agree there is any text to support this sign= ificant change in server behavior.
An Errata should not make exis= ting implementations non-compliant.
I don't see any text that ind= icates the original intent was to make a confirmed commit
survive = a reboot.=C2=A0

If a <persist> parameter= is provided by the client session, and then that client session
t= erminates, there is no way for a superuser (or any user) to invoke the <= cancel-commit>
operation.=C2=A0 The only remedy is to wait for = the timeout or reboot the device.
If the timeout is long or unkn= own) then waiting it out may not be a good option.

With the new text, rebooting the device does not clear this situation


Andy

=
On T= ue, Jun 4, 2019 at 12:48 PM Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Andy,

=
Please provide alternative text in the form of OLD/NEW, if you do not= agree with what is being proposed.

Thanks
<= div>
On Jun 3, 2019, at= 8:24 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumawo= rks.com> wrote:


On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:19 PM Mahesh Jeth= anandani <mjethanandani@gmail= .com> wrote:

Several attempts have been made to clarify= the role of confirmed commit in RFC 6241 vis-a-vis Section 7.8 <close-se= ssion> and Section 7.9 <kill-session>, and the text in Section 8.4 = Confirmed Commit Capability.

We= , (the chairs) believe that the best way to resolve issues with the current = set of erratum that already exist or are being proposed is to minimize re-= explaining the role of confirmed commit in both Section 7.8 and 7..9 and de= fer the explanation to Section 8.4 of the RFC. With that in mind, we are pr= oposing that Section 7.8 and 7.9 should ultimately look as follows.. Note,= the highlights in all the sections are to enable identifying the changes.

=C2=A0
OLD (as in original RFC= 6241)








=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>


=
7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>=

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Description:=C2=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0When a NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request= , it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0gracefully close the session.=C2=A0 The ser= ver will release any locks
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0and resources associated w= ith the session and gracefully close any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0associated c= onnections.=C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests received after a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-session> request will be ignored.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0For details on what happens if a NETCONF server r= eceives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<close-sessio= n> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0please refer to=C2=A0Section 8.4.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If t= he device was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc= -reply> is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Res= ponse:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0<rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any reas= on.

=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Example:
=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-id=3D"101"
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"&g= t;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= span class=3D"gmail-m_-2356660198013488188gmail-m_-7255355645366113168Apple= -converted-space">=C2=A0<close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= </rpc>
<= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"><= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply= >
OLD (as in original RFC 6241).



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0release any locks and resources associated with the session, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0close any associated connections.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0If a NETCONF = server receives a <kill-session> request while
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued.=

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwise, the <kill-sessi= on> operation does not roll back
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration or= other device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0entity h= olding the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Parameters:

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0session-id:=C2=A0 Sessi= on identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the current session ID,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= span class=3D"gmail-m_-2356660198013488188gmail-m_-7255355645366113168Apple= -converted-space">=C2=A0an "invalid-value" error is returned.=

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to satisfy the request, an=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok>= ; element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is= included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> if the request can= not be completed for any reason.


=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0Example:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc message-i= d=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<kill-session>=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0<session-id>4</session-id><= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<= /rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc-reply>=

=
NEW

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-session>= ;
<= br />
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Descripti= on:=C2=A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0When a = NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for an
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0open session, it will abort any operations currently in process,<= /span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0release any locks and resources associated with the s= ession, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0close any associated connections.=

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(0,140,180)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For details on what happens if a = NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<kill-session> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0please refer to=C2=A0= Section 8.4.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwi= se, the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0configuration or other device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0entity holding the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Parameters:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= session-id:=C2=A0 Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the c= urrent session ID,
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0an "invalid-value"= error is returned.
<= span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able t= o satisfy the request, an
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply> is sent= that includes an <ok> element.

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <= ;rpc-error> element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-rep= ly> if the request cannot be completed for any reason.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Example:=

<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18.3px;line-height:no= rmal;font-family:Courier">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0<rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xm= lns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<= /span><kill-session>
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<session-i= d>4</session-id>
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</kill-session>= ;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</rpc>

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<rpc-reply message-id= =3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:= ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0</rpc-reply>


In addition, the following paragrap= h in Section 8.4.1 would be modified.

OLD:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the device reboots fo= r any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server M= UST restore the configuration to its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0before the confirm= ed commit was issued.


NEW:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= /span>before the confirmed commit was issued,=C2=A0unless the confirmed commit= =C2=A0
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0also included a <persist> = element.


=
I do not agree at all that the original text says or impli= es that a server MUST support=C2=A0
continuation of a confirmed c= ommit across a reboot.=C2=A0
Is that what this new text is meant= to convey?

The new text could mean that if <p= ersist> was provided that the server MAY or SHOULD restore the configura= tion
and terminate the confirmed commit procedure.
(There is text in multiple places that assumes the reader know= s that restoring the configuration
also terminates the CC)
<= div>

Cur= rent Erratums for RFC 6241 will be adjusted to accommodate these changes.

Mahesh & Kent (co-chairs)



Andy
=C2=A0
= _______________________________________________
netconf mailing listnetconf@ietf.org
https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

Mahesh Jethanandani



_______________________________________________
netconf mailing listnetconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/netconf

--------=_MB03DBEB89-E247-46E0-A1E9-8A11845083C1-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 04:47:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB30A120116; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:47:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <156034004173.2653.12057096205394798167@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:47:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-15.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:47:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Dynamic subscription to YANG Events and Datastores over RESTCONF Authors : Eric Voit Reshad Rahman Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Alexander Clemm Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-15.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2019-06-12 Abstract: This document provides a RESTCONF binding to the dynamic subscription capability of both subscribed notifications and YANG-Push. 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Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:02:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OWK_8cvIIlPg for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E44BB1200E9 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:02:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560344554; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=NIln+sqBhRGrQSAjnPqQflI6OQ2qwmnlSzbn59XrbQE=; b=NM2h5SvGF9uvnbWmeuSK5p0Jk31+2uz0TjWkvVIafNAF2oniEFvQzWbZEbqJrEMv eOCzwA8zzo0eWC6XkTZjDuxwXjGZlDpYw1w59T8OPhnItBPws3f0mDzbVfUtqb760Sc jxvWpYyzFOJwuNsK1CToc1UM6/3aEBfiTFzGNE68= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_02F710F5-0B54-4A7C-AF72-D14A80C4D6B2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:02:34 +0000 In-Reply-To: To: "netconf@ietf.org" References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.12-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:02:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_02F710F5-0B54-4A7C-AF72-D14A80C4D6B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > a) 'persist' MUST span reboots. > b) 'persist' MUST NOT span reboots. > c) it is an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans = reboots. >=20 > [...] >=20 > IMO the text most strongly supports (b) [para 6]. > It could be argued that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot = does cause a session > termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests = the server is still running > but the client session is terminated >=20 > [...] >=20 > I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear what the scope of "unless" = is in para 5. If (a) is not possible, and (b) excludes [IoT] devices that must reboot = for each commit, then (c) becomes the front runner. The text could be curt and just state =E2=80=9Cit is an implementation = decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots.=E2=80=9D But it might be helpful to elaborate along the lines of =E2=80=9Cdevices = that require a reboot in order to commit SHOULD..., other devices = MAY...=E2=80=9D.=20 As to how a client can determine the server=E2=80=99s behavior, given = this is just Errata, it would be inappropriate to define a = =E2=80=98feature=E2=80=99. How about: =E2=80=9CThis document does not provide a mechanism enabling a client to = determine if a server supports the =E2=80=98persist=E2=80=99 behavior = over reboots, or if a server requires a reboot in order to effect = configuration changes.=E2=80=9C ??? Kent // contributor=20= --Apple-Mail=_02F710F5-0B54-4A7C-AF72-D14A80C4D6B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

  a)  'persist' MUST = span reboots.
  b)  'persist' MUST NOT = span reboots.
  c) it is an implementation = decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots.

[...]

IMO the text most = strongly supports (b) [para 6].
It could be argued = that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot does cause a = session
termination, but IMO this was not the = intent of para 5. It suggests the server is still running
but the client session is terminated

[...]

I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear what =
the scope of "unless" is in para =
5.

If (a) is not possible, and (b) = excludes [IoT] devices that must reboot for each commit, then (c) = becomes the front runner.

The text could be curt and just state =E2=80=9Cit is an = implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans = reboots.=E2=80=9D

But it might be helpful to elaborate = along the lines of =E2=80=9Cdevices that require a reboot in order to = commit SHOULD..., other devices MAY...=E2=80=9D. 

As to how a client can determine the = server=E2=80=99s behavior, given this is just Errata, it would be = inappropriate to define a =E2=80=98feature=E2=80=99.   How = about:

=E2=80=9CThis = document does not provide a mechanism enabling a client to determine if = a server supports the =E2=80=98persist=E2=80=99 behavior over reboots, = or if a server requires a reboot in order to effect configuration = changes.=E2=80=9C

???

Kent // = contributor 
= --Apple-Mail=_02F710F5-0B54-4A7C-AF72-D14A80C4D6B2-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 06:39:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4A412011A for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:39:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zesxV7MND4Ta for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aye.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (aye.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C3971200C7 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:39:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dxszz3qpvg|x-authuser|jonathan@hansfords.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7FD342589; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:39:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.myfast.site (100-96-14-97.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.14.97]) (Authenticated sender: dxszz3qpvg) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8166E3425F3; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:39:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dxszz3qpvg|x-authuser|jonathan@hansfords.net Received: from mail.myfast.site ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [81.19.215.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.2); Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:39:31 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dxszz3qpvg|x-authuser|jonathan@hansfords.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dxszz3qpvg X-Share-Tart: 20e6e0bc13688fd9_1560346770868_3204188455 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1560346770868:571585063 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1560346770864 Received: from [51.52.247.166] (port=50708 helo=[172.16.3.14]) by localhost.localdomain with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hb3TE-00HKeF-3y; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:39:21 +0100 From: "Jonathan Hansford" To: "Kent Watsen" , "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:39:35 +0000 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> Reply-To: "Jonathan Hansford" User-Agent: eM_Client/7.2.34959.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MB6F74EDAB-E7B5-4C41-837B-E8C09189928D" X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190611-4, 11/06/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AuthUser: jonathan@hansfords.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:39:36 -0000 --------=_MB6F74EDAB-E7B5-4C41-837B-E8C09189928D Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/06/2019 14:02:34, "Kent Watsen" wrote: > >>> a) 'persist' MUST span reboots. >>> b) 'persist' MUST NOT span reboots. >>> c) it is an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans >>>reboots. >>> >>>[...] >> >>IMO the text most strongly supports (b) [para 6]. >>It could be argued that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot >>does cause a session >>termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests >>the server is still running >>but the client session is terminated >> >>[...] >> >>I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is i= n para 5. > >If (a) is not possible, and (b) excludes [IoT] devices that must reboot >for each commit, then (c) becomes the front runner. If (a) is not possible, how can it be an implementation decision whether 'persist' spans reboots? If (a) is not possible, only (b) is left and IoT devices that must reboot for each commit are excluded. > > >The text could be curt and just state =E2=80=9Cit is an implementation dec= ision >as to if 'persist' spans reboots.=E2=80=9D > >But it might be helpful to elaborate along the lines of =E2=80=9Cdevices t= hat >require a reboot in order to commit SHOULD..., other devices MAY...=E2=80= =9D. > >As to how a client can determine the server=E2=80=99s behavior, given this= is >just Errata, it would be inappropriate to define a =E2=80=98feature=E2=80= =99. How >about: > >=E2=80=9CThis document does not provide a mechanism enabling a client to >determine if a server supports the =E2=80=98persist=E2=80=99 behavior over= reboots, or >if a server requires a reboot in order to effect configuration >changes.=E2=80=9C > >??? > >Kent // contributor --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------=_MB6F74EDAB-E7B5-4C41-837B-E8C09189928D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 12/06/2019 14:02:34, "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

<= /span>
=
<= /div>

=C2=A0 a) = =C2=A0'persist' MUST span reboots.
=C2=A0 b) =C2=A0'pe= rsist' MUST NOT span reboots.
=C2=A0 c) it is an imple= mentation decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots.
<= br class=3D"" />
[...]

IMO the text most strongly = supports (b) [para 6].
It could be argued that [para 5= ] supports (a) because a server reboot does cause a session
termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests t= he server is still running
but the client session is t= erminated

[...]= 

=

I think (c) is OK=
 since it not 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is in para 5.

If (a) is not possible, and (b) excludes [IoT] devices that must reb= oot for each commit, then (c) becomes the front runner.
If (a) is not possible, how can it be an implementation dec= ision whether 'persist' spans reboots? If (a) is not possible, only (b) is = left and IoT devices that must reboot for each commit are excluded.

The text c= ould be curt and just state =E2=80=9Cit is an implementation decision as to if 'p= ersist' spans reboots.=E2=80=9D

But it might be helpful to elaborate along the lines of = =E2=80=9Cdevices that require a reboot in order to commit SHOULD..., other = devices MAY...=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0

As to how a client can determine the server=E2=80=99s behavior, give= n this is just Errata, it would be inappropriate to define a =E2=80=98featu= re=E2=80=99. =C2=A0 How about:

=E2=80=9CThis document does not provide a mechanism enabling a cl= ient to determine if a server supports the =E2=80=98persist=E2=80=99 behavi= or over reboots, or if a server requires a reboot in order to effect config= uration changes.=E2=80=9C

?= ??

Kent // cont= ributor=C2=A0

3D"" Virus-= free. www.avast.com
--------=_MB6F74EDAB-E7B5-4C41-837B-E8C09189928D-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 06:54:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD9C12012C for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:54:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jGcVqchjPNXr for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD31B12004F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id p24so12182499lfo.6 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:54:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AIay3rhSD6moIwucOn6WbhEAvGcDCdHgdoGAoDgZZIE=; b=xhsyFbZTUBOQ6VN4+t2LYlXVqNoC4oUrVMBMkZGg/LaMymdYvEkCVbEIotrlddQMky wnGbWb4rO5+eNTsXk0CEw4naixSANu99+X0BHhr0bKqXbWaaSeZouOYfiFOgy4kiPKjN V0OJHI4FJnciBzWGpb5R/z00O5z1xppRhwtav83udmHW/MoXiX4wfMrpZhDC9JY8HJP0 IZl4tv1RKPqx7nxfG0RdPu+hmiALhd42GMxbbPq8U8svuVMSKL0561YX/og0G7ZEdI5Q ysBJv7o55dSgda9jZpBlNuSB+bmZP+7roUHopkM3GgaHhVAs0CnJImZOX4ito6xKohMx b4Jw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AIay3rhSD6moIwucOn6WbhEAvGcDCdHgdoGAoDgZZIE=; b=YmLJIjN9cfwX7bot1yNquJzzuLX4Qzf08obqKQUyWDld6uvX4qoGcb4/hBgntMzpYW NFTYyGGFf39xRqW74zo/cmCaGT89pFTXTM/3S50GXo9jMlYi375MTvuZgllQTtyk3vli d6Iboo87d7gD97GXWhaz6P1L+peG13X1Wz44xG3As3KYls9nUZinbeFPGk/EwZEXpUFK wAmJ7aedstwnoOwMYbbgwKqmuuwE3zeE3oib801bAbDA+J0fhxXURDwJFSxrt40uooLf UkOPeJIzxmtkg1QjrwLqTbaQjFTc6wEBFcO+ZbrVJoLEwFJMCNtdFKNKIz1gf6hlFS+V KscA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXHaGYMVEK5XYjgoVN/yQxCdP2eK2jtCfWPXYgn4pjOQlckz2jK Fv47SIWAXHz0/sdcbnenvyKLEktviHEIpC4VkMad5Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzq2AXUeuXFj5Sq/NVEmdkvtaJgXmpj/V5q99r8MEmfxhjjBtQ/FIfuo0w3OudkWlvYnISpl6uoQghjlhfkBfs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:4c5:: with SMTP id w5mr2264908lfq.171.1560347676820; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:54:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000000e380058b20c165" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:54:42 -0000 --00000000000000e380058b20c165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 6:02 AM Kent Watsen wrote: > > a) 'persist' MUST span reboots. >> b) 'persist' MUST NOT span reboots. >> c) it is an implementation decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots. >> >> [...] >> > > IMO the text most strongly supports (b) [para 6]. > It could be argued that [para 5] supports (a) because a server reboot doe= s > cause a session > termination, but IMO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests the > server is still running > but the client session is terminated > > [...] > > > I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear what the scope of "unless" is i= n para 5. > > > If (a) is not possible, and (b) excludes [IoT] devices that must reboot > for each commit, then (c) becomes the front runner. > > The text could be curt and just state =E2=80=9Cit is an implementation de= cision > as to if 'persist' spans reboots.=E2=80=9D > > But it might be helpful to elaborate along the lines of =E2=80=9Cdevices = that > require a reboot in order to commit SHOULD..., other devices MAY...=E2=80= =9D. > > As to how a client can determine the server=E2=80=99s behavior, given thi= s is just > Errata, it would be inappropriate to define a =E2=80=98feature=E2=80=99. = How about: > > =E2=80=9CThis document does not provide a mechanism enabling a client to = determine > if a server supports the =E2=80=98persist=E2=80=99 behavior over reboots,= or if a server > requires a reboot in order to effect configuration changes.=E2=80=9C > > > I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce protocol behavior that the original RFC does not actually specify. (c) is correct for an Errata because the original RFC is under-specified. Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots > ??? > > Kent // contributor > Andy --00000000000000e380058b20c165 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 6:02 AM Kent = Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
=
=

=C2=A0 a) =C2=A0= 9;persist' MUST span reboots.
=C2=A0 b) =C2=A0'persist= 9; MUST NOT span reboots.
=C2=A0 c) it is an implementation decis= ion as to if 'persist' spans reboots.

[...= ]

IMO the text most strongly su= pports (b) [para 6].
It could be argued that [para 5] supports (a= ) because a server reboot does cause a session
termination, but I= MO this was not the intent of para 5. It suggests the server is still runni= ng
but the client session is terminated

= [...]

I think (c) is OK since it not 100% clear =
what the scope of "unless" is in para 5.
<= /blockquote>

If (a) is not possible, and (b) excludes [I= oT] devices that must reboot for each commit, then (c) becomes the front ru= nner.

The text could be curt and just state =E2=80= =9Cit is an implementa= tion decision as to if 'persist' spans reboots.=E2=80=9D

But it might be= helpful to elaborate along the lines of =E2=80=9Cdevices that require a re= boot in order to commit SHOULD..., other devices MAY...=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0

As to how a client can determine the server=E2=80= =99s behavior, given this is just Errata, it would be inappropriate to defi= ne a =E2=80=98feature=E2=80=99. =C2=A0 How about:

=E2=80= =9CThis document does not provide a mechanism enabling a client to determin= e if a server supports the =E2=80=98persist=E2=80=99 behavior over reboots,= or if a server requires a reboot in order to effect configuration changes.= =E2=80=9C



<= div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
???

Kent // contributor=C2=A0


--00000000000000e380058b20c165-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 13:13:29 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b4d52df66-9b7a0ce5-888e-4154-aa58-fd1b81f1b73c-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A370120114 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 87UfowhFnboJ for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD49B120091 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:13:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560370405; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=qtzet8stRG5PRxYlzmZ34HSdVQBRNdeNmgxRMIk6aQQ=; b=f8i+0EkL0KF/lxmBo8MJVGu/sIpOGjRpUkN2Ga4RDLXGimBfqyoA096FOxixhfFV 0cTBgM409XD7HfzMtIQmrWq08sMnUwkEkKAVko+JRCSKYA5k3S3VbzSaeJ89s1KnUNw JVbWb+Yj5khZfj9B7NY3EUZIZIqRSlKK92tM6RM8= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b4d52df66-9b7a0ce5-888e-4154-aa58-fd1b81f1b73c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A25CAE8A-B4AE-4FD3-9177-598F98DC5DB1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:13:25 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Jonathan Hansford References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.12-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:13:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A25CAE8A-B4AE-4FD3-9177-598F98DC5DB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Jonathan, > If (a) is not possible, how can it be an implementation decision = whether 'persist' spans reboots? (a) is not possible only from an errata perspective (not an = implementation perspective). Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_A25CAE8A-B4AE-4FD3-9177-598F98DC5DB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Jonathan,

If (a) is not possible, how can it be an = implementation decision whether 'persist' spans reboots? =

(a) is not = possible only from an errata perspective (not an implementation = perspective).


Kent // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_A25CAE8A-B4AE-4FD3-9177-598F98DC5DB1-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 13:16:59 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D178120225 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:16:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oWaiXjbK6sOy for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5D651201B3 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560370609; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=odjTNRuBz0oOXDlEd6cfHIfikneGLX/k8Nr0NLqvSYs=; b=NRk0I7ViIKMxdNO3lUsUjNPdGupfhaiDqlBbDdibPXQV6vsrTiJvmOqWGF6NDPRP ddxLUDWP4lJZD0RcNDPAZ1+viItsWWlSZ966uLGiqD8SI0MLwbmWLi/jtXTZRdYP52b KxsxO/ZkUQ4B2Uf7jYLxpWuYZtoJ0XoQ8pGgNwqQ= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E43FB77E-0C7D-40B9-9757-D01B10C22946" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:16:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , Mahesh Jethanandani To: Andy Bierman References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.12-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:16:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E43FB77E-0C7D-40B9-9757-D01B10C22946 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Andy, > I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce = protocol behavior > that the original RFC does not actually specify. (c) is correct for = an Errata because the original RFC > is under-specified. Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots It sounds like we're in agreement. Are you objecting to something I = wrote in particular? Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_E43FB77E-0C7D-40B9-9757-D01B10C22946 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Andy,

I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce protocol behavior
that the original RFC does not actually specify.  (c) is correct for an Errata because the original RFC
is under-specified.  Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots

It sounds like we're in agreement.  Are you objecting to something I wrote in particular?

Kent // contributor


--Apple-Mail=_E43FB77E-0C7D-40B9-9757-D01B10C22946-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 14:37:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A39120189 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:37:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5EqZUauh55Yv for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90FB61200B2 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id v18so16444306ljh.6 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0J++do+gx+qt+w+N030PKDInFP7Ktte7gbHpdyuJQN4=; b=EK0DjpbVEZowH8b6rc+QZKLVssQrbxlDiySfXFNyeHYsAj3/VoCSET0Eq80yIFWs+1 S4cjusPY1xkj68XKaxSNBJFpa53CggFIhC5N0ifIrFi1TMr9E/kyFyv7R1/3ElCxJcm6 GFn0+1z5SHVuU/JOUx/Fqc8LMjBiJV1KhKc/VmEFrHcnrYrGQMpJYWrt9L0WZUtbMr3M Tx03VUGWXkCHFySizQE9RT3VELMq0M96kJmT8TYYazD22YjuRMBsyeo9Dxtt1wmUHapD W50Qz0e4pcEmkeW70hDg72D4hMTeG2YR+e12AL1HFBQBODQEVwvwS78tfqZSWdPVroPT qXNw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0J++do+gx+qt+w+N030PKDInFP7Ktte7gbHpdyuJQN4=; b=KewrVsJcnKDYch8YSreDsix60UZdbXMbknFx6qnv25xqiSiGHeTjEp8IJHT1ynNDFh NqoAi2xKZsX47f6DQFkVCCE8lImB9uTpWp4lYjiG7H8aWB3c+w78e29k1R694tJy/jBn JMpTMZBWKOcI+YAp1dez6EphlfScrS8xWtrHgulh5hohcfR6oYJvjgQpvRSSKsyiYGF8 g/yUBgNPptI2sAXXnKgix96g7rCieLowEwf0erosTxwkyXQtU2WiNnp9gUs2RGu9sOzg zfoBKbwswKMf6TVcBkv+rV2BphQPe9RRD/ZxkbWy4yRfDKzwVDeMrBmpA//ciTPHuySn jX7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUTWjtUeJvUX9lD7m2Gtpfr9lGu4Eej7J+2tlMdGbdEAtFJbxDc e4MW2W7PbWRlWy4RoFQmzFXo54EvsV3PrwE/72Ymvw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz57RHVuF62/TKPaPg5ciGQIkzVfhoInIn23WKOalEzxZDFZnDvtg69i1daGjcK2/hjxhbh+QuG/AwO/JO0JUA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8583:: with SMTP id b3mr26360724lji.171.1560375416671; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:36:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:36:45 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d628e058b27367a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:37:01 -0000 --0000000000006d628e058b27367a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I think (c) or (d) is OK. I would object to (a) or (b). Adding a MUST in an Errata would only be OK if it was unanimous that was the original intent. Andy On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce > protocol behavior > that the original RFC does not actually specify. (c) is correct for an > Errata because the original RFC > is under-specified. Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots > > > It sounds like we're in agreement. Are you objecting to something I wrote > in particular? > > Kent // contributor > > > --0000000000006d628e058b27367a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I think (c) or (d) is OK.
I would object to (a) or (b).
Adding a MUST in an Errata would o= nly be OK if it was unanimous that was the original intent.

<= /div>
Andy



On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1= :16 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@= watsen.net> wrote:

Hi Andy= ,

I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it at= tempts to enforce protocol behavior
that the original RFC does no= t actually specify.=C2=A0 (c) is correct for an Errata because the original= RFC
is under-specified.=C2=A0 Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' = MAY span reboots

It= sounds like we're in agreement.=C2=A0 Are you objecting to something I= wrote in particular?

Kent // contributor

--0000000000006d628e058b27367a-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 14:48:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCC3120199 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OF4z3cKszhB1 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2A21120189 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id p24so13373850lfo.6 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:48:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4PhgTRQTLzkpsw7x5cVHh3OBbj7/NYnEIdgX5qgdU8E=; b=G5+34lWgD9QwrCxiaASTWNQG6t6c0KisdyxGMasoKtZfw7liknA4qmGXcQC4D7IuGx 6xf9ruKG0SsXoDmaESa96CM+YdYVzdOTsmrS0E1sl0/42DV9Mm7QR9DeWQqDRB9JAylw xSBe2wUQY64DzeOq34plNyfo1QzfLypyabSNXh4Zd0E2woVZVyAFf1ZyloLK+c+6m4a7 GPmGvZZKoHEDmqE8HLxBBoAmw9sQWbIfDu6rXA9rrFHSlhch9wIOzadwmopATtCarQqh HxBagaTNwu7beSIrIXsIm6+28QvYtEQk6lKM6m33fBEKwXeOV8YsVK/k0FT4PEdk152l UExA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4PhgTRQTLzkpsw7x5cVHh3OBbj7/NYnEIdgX5qgdU8E=; b=qODYD1aOF1N7e5rPY56fEgrr45qDN9hXOedO+Zat5TN7v7aXk1BfBJTTylM7lo8COE iFqnW2BWyejFKPQZXXM+bSSq6AIgoDuXaMIHqU+BURCcfgrJsFfBSzkLHGniVBZxgABP 6daP9Ma5V+NkZEiLfuuM8Txo7KiL6u2xsAgsKYpOmA1fOF0hTirzcDXzSFeeJXMoT1QD W/BpGirKIY+Yqf91NmEBYe0su5fPsH2Szxqj7tBaCk9YswrelOe7Xrmk1vjrtXENbeVL O1ycKW21m57yYUyc3Zv22XiTaiyx5ncsZWJUYEfjkhsR0HKjaurGAxRBIL8PMQyRitNR VAdA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWYuJ732yRovL60DAB39A+1J/HWJlR/AbBD3HTb0mP65a8drbYo DbL4p8F3ZmaWP4RhBR91bQ1LGIZNdB0trXKgdwn8zw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw2Y6EOpdHCAKOk1UcmfL6V34pleb0/VQViJ4YV4yrIuGaLOqDTZQyavNZarkRXliKZS8GWhs6gpk6W6oNLKvc= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4017:: with SMTP id n23mr46232080lfa.112.1560376081890; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:48:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:47:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000013da52058b275ec2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:48:06 -0000 --00000000000013da52058b275ec2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, This is the new text in question: It appears your intent is (c) since there is no mention at all what happens if was included. The text just says what does not happen in this case. >> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit >> also included a element. >> > How about adding at the end: OLD: element. NEW: element, in which case the server MAY continue the confirmed commit procedure. Andy On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce > protocol behavior > that the original RFC does not actually specify. (c) is correct for an > Errata because the original RFC > is under-specified. Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots > > > It sounds like we're in agreement. Are you objecting to something I wrote > in particular? > > Kent // contributor > > > --00000000000013da52058b275ec2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

This is the new text in question:
It appears your intent is (c) since there is no mention at all wha= t happens if
<persist> was included.=C2=A0 The text just sa= ys what does not happen in this case.

<= div>

=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0If the device reboots for any reason before= the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to= its state
=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0before the confirmed commit was issued,=C2= =A0unless the confirmed commit= =C2=A0
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0also included a <persist> eleme= nt.


How a= bout adding at the end:

OLD:

<= div>element.

NEW:

element= , in which case the server MAY continue the confirmed commit procedure.


Andy
=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
<= /div>

Hi Andy,

I object to= changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce protocol behavi= or
that the original RFC does not actually specify.=C2=A0 (c) is = correct for an Errata because the original RFC
is under-specified= .=C2=A0 Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots

It sounds like we're in agreeme= nt.=C2=A0 Are you objecting to something I wrote in particular?
<= br>
Kent // contributor


--00000000000013da52058b275ec2-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 23:12:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E0512015D for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:12:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yeB4V2rt0j1H for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78C4812004C for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D47A65C; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id o4JcuwLWOoKg; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3483D20128; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id Rr6Hj5xDaPxq; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C30FD20126; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:55 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9EBBA300A45ED0; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:11:55 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190613061155.mpuudt25lmze4bzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <0100016b340e6eb9-e4442a9d-8d44-4f9e-af5c-14ae323a47e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@email.amazonses.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Originating-IP: [10.50.218.117] X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:12:02 -0000 On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 08:53:57PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > Thanks for broaching the topic, I'm hoping we can suss out such things before the drafts enter Last Call in 2-3 weeks. > > > >> 1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' like equivalents. If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply remove them, having no solution for asking the device to generate a key or install a hidden key. > >> > > > > I am not sure this approach. This just hides the discussion in a > > special purpose construction: > > > > Without the optional '-and-hidden' postfix, the generated > > key pair is stored in the configuration data store as if > > the values had been configured by the client. > > > True, this special purpose construction sidesteps us needing to resolve the larger "can actions effect configuration" discussion. But perhaps that is okay given that the need to have actions effecting configuration is exceedingly rare? It's clear that you're not thrilled by this approach, but it's unclear if the reason you're not thrilled is because of the approach or because it's sidestepping the larger discussion. Also, what do you propose we do about it? Choices: > > a) nix the "verbs", leaving the solution for asking the device to generate a key and install a hidden key to a future update. > b) resurrect the 'action' based discussion. > c) cautiously move forward with the "verbs" approach. > d) something else? I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an ad-hoc data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the device. That said, I still think it is desirable to find a solution to support this that is acceptable to the WG. But replacing an action with 'verbs' and side effects in config data is for me just obscuring the issue not solving it. > > A more general note: I assume that humans configuring systems are > > mostly familiar with common file formats for X.509 certificates like > > .pem files or similar. It seems these formats can't be used with the > > YANG module and that tools are needed to extract the pieces of data > > and to ship them to the server. Perhaps usability would be higher if > > the module would support upload/download of X.509 related material in > > commonly used formats. > > This comment seems to apply to the entire client/server suite of drafts. I believe that your statement regards the somewhat heavy use of CMS structures for conveyed certificate chains, rather than the non-standard though nearly ubiquitous concatenation of PEM-encoded certificates. Right. > I believe that bi-directional `openssl` based one-liners exist for converting between CMS and concatenated-PEMs. Would it help if the crypto-types draft included an Appendix section to supply the `openssl` commands for just the 'trust-anchor-cert-cms' and 'end-entity-cert-cms' typedefs? [FWIW, constructing said CMS structures in Python is trivial.] Yes, there are a number of these -cms types and I suspect that not all people will not know how to generate the proper CMS / DER-encoded binary (and then base64 encoded XML/JSON) values that are required by the YANG model. I am much more used to PEM formats but perhaps this is just my ignorance. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 13 04:00:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FBE120276 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:00:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DfcUU3ryZ7Vp for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E487412013F for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D4161AE0331; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:00:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:00:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190613061155.mpuudt25lmze4bzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190613061155.mpuudt25lmze4bzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 11:00:26 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 08:53:57PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Juergen, > > > > Thanks for broaching the topic, I'm hoping we can suss out such things before the drafts enter Last Call in 2-3 weeks. > > > > > > >> 1) in crypto-types, replaced the 'action' statements with 'crypt-hash' like equivalents. If folks don't like the "verbs", then we can simply remove them, having no solution for asking the device to generate a key or install a hidden key. > > >> > > > > > > I am not sure this approach. This just hides the discussion in a > > > special purpose construction: > > > > > > Without the optional '-and-hidden' postfix, the generated > > > key pair is stored in the configuration data store as if > > > the values had been configured by the client. > > > > > > True, this special purpose construction sidesteps us needing to resolve the larger "can actions effect configuration" discussion. But perhaps that is okay given that the need to have actions effecting configuration is exceedingly rare? It's clear that you're not thrilled by this approach, but it's unclear if the reason you're not thrilled is because of the approach or because it's sidestepping the larger discussion. Also, what do you propose we do about it? Choices: > > > > a) nix the "verbs", leaving the solution for asking the device to generate a key and install a hidden key to a future update. > > b) resurrect the 'action' based discussion. > > c) cautiously move forward with the "verbs" approach. > > d) something else? > > I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an ad-hoc > data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the device. Remember we had this cases: 1. upload of keys 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware protected storage (and never be accessible) 2b. generation of keys on the box that will be stored on disk (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) 3. generation of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) handles 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody accepts. So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and leave 3 for the future? /martin From nobody Thu Jun 13 04:10:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D6B1202B7 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puESdcwqKxXa for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 101D01200FE for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBCBA0E; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id dN31CQz0CE20; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FD120128; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id dbsSaIbQYtQv; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4336320126; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:24 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 58F34300A46880; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:10:23 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , Message-ID: <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf@ietf.org References: <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190613061155.mpuudt25lmze4bzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 11:10:30 -0000 On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 01:00:24PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an ad-hoc > > data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the device. > > Remember we had this cases: > > 1. upload of keys > 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware protected > storage (and never be accessible) > 2b. generation of keys on the box that will be stored on disk > (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) > 3. generation of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration > > > I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) handles > 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). > > It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody > accepts. > > So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and > leave 3 for the future? This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to take a bigger hammer to accomplish this? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 13 07:17:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093B712030D for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:17:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9yyXjpD-ZqL for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C7912031A for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C9AA1AE0331; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:17:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:17:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190613.161724.2062830463595047263.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190613061155.mpuudt25lmze4bzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:17:29 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 01:00:24PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an ad-hoc > > > data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the device. > > > > Remember we had this cases: > > > > 1. upload of keys > > 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware protected > > storage (and never be accessible) > > 2b. generation of keys on the box that will be stored on disk > > (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) > > 3. generation of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration > > > > > > I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) handles > > 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). > > > > It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody > > accepts. > > > > So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and > > leave 3 for the future? > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to take > a bigger hammer to accomplish this? If we can agree on this way forward, I think we can solve the life cycle issue. One action to create the key and one to delete it seems reasonable. /martin From nobody Thu Jun 13 07:58:36 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b5158eba2-6c8348a2-aacc-48c6-adf9-aab39b0ef3a9-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91587120313 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:58:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKtposPlleX9 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE9371202FC for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:58:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560437910; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=pkQBIa36hmBRpdrxTn1RuLMx3OIrxOyD0FwJ4RFkkxI=; b=C50vDP2dnkxohz5S6QGUR2DWq928ypaAFuUlawxCvMWOElHoeZNz1izwNt3N6LDk PhXixnYDxtx2W+Kn4GU5xNUIsbql5kQBCnDet6GX+FMAdFJGQDBbC9KAyKw+wsdkX+X csbafZL5HiaVxDcEiE9+sqxfBflMs2YUEqalgpLE= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b5158eba2-6c8348a2-aacc-48c6-adf9-aab39b0ef3a9-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0CA6C12D-4936-4701-8A9F-DA3C44AFE474" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:58:30 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <20190611174024.bbtb2vnoeef3ym4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b4851a036-a68c7d52-37a1-497c-b401-4551ee2b26d5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190613061155.mpuudt25lmze4bzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.13-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:58:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0CA6C12D-4936-4701-8A9F-DA3C44AFE474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an = ad-hoc >>> data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the device. >>=20 >> Remember we had this cases: >>=20 >> 1. upload of keys >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware = protected >> storage (and never be accessible) >> 2b. generation of keys on the box that will be stored on disk >> (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) >> 3. generation of keys on the box that become (protected) = configuration This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7uIcc = . Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - = hidden is hidden, however it's implemented. >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) handles >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). >>=20 >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody >> accepts. >>=20 >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and >> leave 3 for the future? >=20 > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to take > a bigger hammer to accomplish this? I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the key's = 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory true, = our doing that before was unhelpful. I was hoping that the "verbs" = approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly against = it, then we should go back to the approach described here: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQMJusY = , for which a draft was never published. In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what this action = does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, but one that = Martin appears to be strictly against, and so perhaps (2) is all we can = agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not mentioned) action = to delete the key from (presumably after having deleted = the same from ). Yes, it is less friendly, if you want more = friendly, then let's do (1). I'll update the draft shortly based on the = less-friendly approach (2). That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to enable a = client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or request = the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in my = first link above]. I would support this less complete solution because = it still supports basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated = keys for, e.g., IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable = go-to-market solution. If folks don't like the update per the previous = paragraph, then this looks like a good fallback. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_0CA6C12D-4936-4701-8A9F-DA3C44AFE474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in = an ad-hoc
data format. I rather not support creation of = keys on the device.

Remember = we had this cases:

1.  upload of = keys
2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into = hardware protected
   storage (and never = be accessible)
2b. generation of keys on the box that will = be stored on disk
   (and never be = accessible over the mgmt interface)
3.  generation of = keys on the box that become (protected) configuration

This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described = here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJ= Gj8dD7uIcc.  Also, we currently make no distinction between = (2a) and (2b) - hidden is hidden, however it's = implemented.



I think the previous = version of the draft (with YANG actions) handles
1 and 2 = (a and b with trivial updates).

It is only = (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody
accepts.

So perhaps we should = solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and
leave 3 for = the future?

This may be a way = to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way
to = remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to take
a bigger hammer to accomplish = this?

I object to = reverting to the approach that doesn't have the key's 3-tuple = (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory true, our doing = that before was unhelpful.   I was hoping that the "verbs" approach = could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly against it, then = we should go back to the approach described here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5me= OCpNQMJusY, for which a draft was never published.

In the previous link, search for "Now let's = discuss what this action does" and note the two options: (1) is more = user-friendly, but one that Martin appears to be strictly against, and = so perhaps (2) is all we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a = third (not mentioned) action to delete the key from <operational> = (presumably after having deleted the same from <running>).   = Yes, it is less friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1). =  I'll update the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach = (2).

That said, I'm also okay with = giving up (for now) trying to enable a client request the server = to generate a key (hidden or not) or request the server = to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in my first link = above].  I would support this less complete solution because it = still supports basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated keys = for, e.g., IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable go-to-market = solution.  If folks don't like the update per the previous = paragraph, then this looks like a good fallback.

Kent // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_0CA6C12D-4936-4701-8A9F-DA3C44AFE474-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 08:43:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C0E1202EA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yovwgZQ7FzuD for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A951202D8 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 597B01AE0331; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:43:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:43:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190613.174326.268927196019178879.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b5158eba2-6c8348a2-aacc-48c6-adf9-aab39b0ef3a9-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b5158eba2-6c8348a2-aacc-48c6-adf9-aab39b0ef3a9-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:43:31 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an ad-hoc > >>> data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the device. > >> > >> Remember we had this cases: > >> > >> 1. upload of keys > >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware protected > >> storage (and never be accessible) > >> 2b. generation of keys on the box that will be stored on disk > >> (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) > >> 3. generation of keys on the box that become (protected) > >> configuration > > This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7uIcc > . #1 (pre-existing key in hw) is orthogonal to the pain points we have here; it should be possible to handle this case. #3 (upload of hidden key) should also be straight forward with an action. > Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - hidden > is hidden, however it's implemented. I know, but the discussion seems to imply that this would be useful and it seems trivial to support. > >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) handles > >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). > >> > >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody > >> accepts. > >> > >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and > >> leave 3 for the future? > > > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way > > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to take > > a bigger hammer to accomplish this? > > I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the key's > 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory true, > our doing that before was unhelpful. I need to go back and re-read (again, I just read all threads on this issue) some mails to understand what this means. > I was hoping that the "verbs" > approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly > against it, then we should go back to the approach described here: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQMJusY > , > for which a draft was never published. > > In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what this action > does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, but one > that Martin appears to be strictly against Yes, and Andy and Rob (at least). And I do not agree that it is user friendly at all! > and so perhaps (2) is all > we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not > mentioned) action to delete the key from (presumably > after having deleted the same from ). Yes, it is less > friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1). I'll update > the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach (2). I don't think (2) is the right solution either. I think the previous version of the draft was very close to a workable solution. > That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to enable a > client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or request > the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in my > first link above]. I don't it is necessary to give up this. IMO the only problematic use case is "let the device generate a key that then becomes part of the config". If we avoid that I think we can handle the other cases. > I would support this less complete solution > because it still supports basic configuration (#0) and > manufacturer-generated keys for, e.g., IDevID certificates (#1), and > thus a passable go-to-market solution. If folks don't like the update > per the previous paragraph, then this looks like a good fallback. /martin From nobody Fri Jun 14 01:02:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618F9120196 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 01:02:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.03 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.03 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1987.9; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:02:43 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4735.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::95e8:7ebf:d9f5:d887]) by VI1PR07MB4735.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::95e8:7ebf:d9f5:d887%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2008.002; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:02:43 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBLb3bDoWNz?= To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-keystore - certificate leafref Thread-Index: AdUg/wQfhESajPS8T5Sh1FhhaRcq1wADB/mAAF7gPGA= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:02:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100016b4b459a4b-58d12364-7b0d-4f73-8fb4-66a9d8595079-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b4b459a4b-58d12364-7b0d-4f73-8fb4-66a9d8595079-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.kovacs@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [176.63.31.233] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 17:30:18 -0000 Hi Martin, Kent, > -----Original Message----- > From: netconf On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund > Sent: 13 June 2019 16:43 > To: kent+ietf@watsen.net > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts >=20 > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an > > >>> ad-hoc data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the > device. > > >> > > >> Remember we had this cases: > > >> > > >> 1. upload of keys > > >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware > protected > > >> storage (and never be accessible) 2b. generation of keys on the > > >> box that will be stored on disk > > >> (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) 3. generation > > >> of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration > > > > This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7u > > Icc > > > >. >=20 > #1 (pre-existing key in hw) is orthogonal to the pain points we have here= ; > it should be possible to handle this case. >=20 > #3 (upload of hidden key) should also be straight forward with an action. >=20 >=20 > > Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - hidden > > is hidden, however it's implemented. >=20 > I know, but the discussion seems to imply that this would be useful and i= t > seems trivial to support. >=20 >=20 > > >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) > > >> handles > > >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). > > >> > > >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody > > >> accepts. > > >> > > >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and > > >> leave 3 for the future? > > > > > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way > > > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to > > > take a bigger hammer to accomplish this? > > > > I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the key's > > 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory true, > > our doing that before was unhelpful. >=20 > I need to go back and re-read (again, I just read all threads on this > issue) some mails to understand what this means. >=20 >=20 > > I was hoping that the "verbs" > > approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly > > against it, then we should go back to the approach described here: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQMJ > > usY > > > JusY>, for which a draft was never published. > > > > In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what this action > > does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, but one > > that Martin appears to be strictly against >=20 > Yes, and Andy and Rob (at least). And I do not agree that it is user > friendly at all! I don't think that I'm necessarily against having an action (or RPC) that g= enerates a pair of keys and writes them to configuration as a special type = of configuration update. But I would very much regard this as a special ca= se that is designed as a combined action/RPC solely to make life easier for= clients rather than the defacto approach. I.e., I would like there to be = an equivalent mechanism that works, is just as secure and complete, using r= egular NETCONF config operations and normal semantics. Then = the question becomes: If we can do this using regular NETCONF semantics, do= we still need a separate "easy to use" action/RPC as well? >=20 > > and so perhaps (2) is all > > we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not > > mentioned) action to delete the key from (presumably > > after having deleted the same from ). Yes, it is less > > friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1). I'll update > > the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach (2). >=20 > I don't think (2) is the right solution either. I think the previous > version of the draft was very close to a workable solution. >=20 > > That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to enable a > > client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or request > > the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in my > > first link above]. >=20 > I don't it is necessary to give up this. >=20 > IMO the only problematic use case is "let the device generate a key that > then becomes part of the config". If we avoid that I think we can handle > the other cases. I think that Juergen's idea of "store the name of the key in the = configuration, but not necessarily the value" is along the right lines. - If the client is willing to write the key into the configuration, perhap= s obfuscated, or encrypted, then that is fine. - If the client wants the server to allocate the keys that also works. Taking Kent's tree diagram from the 3rd of May, perhaps this could be modif= ied from: +--rw keystore +--rw asymmetric-keys +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] +--rw name +--rw algorithm? <--- optional? +--rw public-key? <--- optional? +--rw private-key? union <--- optional? = (note union) +---x generate-hidden-key +---x install-hidden-key +---x generate-certificate-signing-request +--rw certificates +--rw certificate* [name] to something like this: +--rw keystore +--rw asymmetric-keys +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] +--rw name +--rw type! <-- New mandator= y field +--rw algorithm? <--- optional +--rw public-key? <--- optional +--rw private-key? union <--- optional +---x regenerate-hidden-key +---x install-hidden-key +---x generate-certificate-signing-request +--rw certificates +--rw certificate* [name] Where the new "type" enum field could have 4 options such as: - plain-text <=3D configured algo, public/private keys in raw format (not = secure, transferable) - obscured <=3D as above, but obscured with a known reversible mechanism= (not secure, transferable) - encrypted <=3D as above, but encrypted using server's public key (secur= e, not transferable) - server-allocated <=3D only name and optionally algorithm in running conf= ig, the server allocates the key when applying the configuration, public ke= y is available in operational, private key is never reported. Key pair is = persisted outside of YANG configuration. =20 YANG "must" statements could be added to "algorithm", "public-key" and "pri= vate-key", to enforce that these are always provided if type is (plain-text= , obscured, encrypted). The "regenerate-hidden-key" action would allow a server-allocated hidden ke= y to be regenerated if required. If user configuration caused the key to b= e created in the first place, then the key would also be deleted if the key= list entry is deleted from configuration. A server could also automatically create its own key, without any user inte= rvention. The server chooses the key name, and the key would be of type "s= erver-allocated" but it would only exist in operational (origin=3Dsystem). = If the key needs to be referenced in configuration then the client would n= eed to configure (asymmetric-key, name=3D, type= =3Dserver-allocated) into the configuration. Subsequently removing the con= figuration wouldn't delete the key (because it is system created, and alway= s exists), but regenerate-hidden-key should work to force the key to be reg= enerated if required. The server persists the key outside of YANG configur= ation. The "install-hidden-key" action would allow a client to replace any server-= allocated hidden key. Finally, if we are concerned about ease of use, then I would OK with a RPC = being defined that performs an edit-config request to just add a named asym= metric-key of type server-allocated. The RPC could also return the public = key that has been generated by the server. Note that this RPC isn't requir= ed, everything that can be done with the RPC can still be achieved through = editing the configuration using edit-config, and reading the public key bac= k with get-data, its only purpose to simplify a use case for clients, and p= erhaps to allow it to have different NACM permissions. Would a scheme like this work? Or am I [still] missing something? Thanks, Rob >=20 >=20 > > I would support this less complete solution because it still supports > > basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated keys for, e.g., > > IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable go-to-market solution. > > If folks don't like the update per the previous paragraph, then this > > looks like a good fallback. >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Sat Jun 15 08:46:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4892612003F for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:46:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P5-rGg-2yfuu for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDF9D12000F for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id i21so5312242ljj.3 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:46:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5tIyNQhIBfpu9YwxTE1jXvEzo549wM+yNLjMUxDrArM=; b=dcMLqgn1q9K82UO7f/6bZJ1Qqr+5RKD5P1uy4BH2WvX57/xb64/ru6Ga4oY/6X7hyF mi7TebWTIDItgLRWWeOudHoTWasvg+v11ibGUpBqa3l+r0dyAbD6p8Pz2CufLxE18HL5 FrCo2xBASl2G11OoXog4vI2IG5skUCME6BKhfwpsDlyXdutCJ5dh24UKnyIzn/GHOPv4 o4HtKz8eFcR87yoyEdAnjUbwVIjFGmHt1MraO/Ta+i90Yz7UowCy0+6HJTz0P5BHw/bl 2nYHbJcM7ORGK3aaaWbyzeGhdcWsQjdR/bsATs/TnWVEFOKetdQXokwF7t0yn5m+Y79U lQoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5tIyNQhIBfpu9YwxTE1jXvEzo549wM+yNLjMUxDrArM=; b=piwpChyl44IB0UtarihgJ6Y48QVHhFqmelCATMTzr+hz4qPKr1khXOxCUcQ8OJwKF2 ugwzJEcSaec8QN+8DxNRjzlJVvK4IkL9LCHElVL+ncLagpyVBcFXelPB/p26aA7RmzJ+ xxsp3XgkBbvZFamCMU2xbmhY13fIdTHKgIBWPv8o2oVd67+6zndq88oWInZ7EtshUFGi nqRKa3jKHRqwVEDVA9+8Pp7zXXNa6bVVulU+NnPYLvZOr+4XYV8+AX7L0n8rDT6pxyI8 36QrefcuNNyYr4gXCbOyvNqVbhx7cs5oddUCn2C5VkVy/f0KjcuL1/mgcPtpxc9hJy5V ihEw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVuZyhK4YEoQRVZZwAQ8t069el9+CkrhvsmmWYV/pXkoAOJ082J /WOzDZhZ/BhCEVcgBdSi7ABHUrVEqn/4cga5rfhSOQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx2pC7GPvqnRfAYIphE64J+cEYgZ/yYtHGDE+u1eYTOm11ekdxMOS902ABGP2PdPWaEb3AszfP+7AI4ibn6ayc= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:934e:: with SMTP id m14mr26900332ljh.116.1560613572756; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:46:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b5158eba2-6c8348a2-aacc-48c6-adf9-aab39b0ef3a9-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190613.174326.268927196019178879.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:46:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: Martin Bjorklund , "kent+ietf@watsen.net" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a2e153058b5ea939" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:46:19 -0000 --000000000000a2e153058b5ea939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Martin, Kent, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netconf On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund > > Sent: 13 June 2019 16:43 > > To: kent+ietf@watsen.net > > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an > > > >>> ad-hoc data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the > > device. > > > >> > > > >> Remember we had this cases: > > > >> > > > >> 1. upload of keys > > > >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware > > protected > > > >> storage (and never be accessible) 2b. generation of keys on the > > > >> box that will be stored on disk > > > >> (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) 3. generation > > > >> of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration > > > > > > This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here: > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7u > > > Icc > > > > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7uIcc > > >. > > > > #1 (pre-existing key in hw) is orthogonal to the pain points we have > here; > > it should be possible to handle this case. > > > > #3 (upload of hidden key) should also be straight forward with an action. > > > > > > > Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - hidden > > > is hidden, however it's implemented. > > > > I know, but the discussion seems to imply that this would be useful and > it > > seems trivial to support. > > > > > > > >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) > > > >> handles > > > >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). > > > >> > > > >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody > > > >> accepts. > > > >> > > > >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and > > > >> leave 3 for the future? > > > > > > > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a way > > > > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to > > > > take a bigger hammer to accomplish this? > > > > > > I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the key's > > > 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory true, > > > our doing that before was unhelpful. > > > > I need to go back and re-read (again, I just read all threads on this > > issue) some mails to understand what this means. > > > > > > > I was hoping that the "verbs" > > > approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly > > > against it, then we should go back to the approach described here: > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQMJ > > > usY > > > > > JusY>, for which a draft was never published. > > > > > > In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what this action > > > does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, but one > > > that Martin appears to be strictly against > > > > Yes, and Andy and Rob (at least). And I do not agree that it is user > > friendly at all! > > I don't think that I'm necessarily against having an action (or RPC) that > generates a pair of keys and writes them to configuration as a special type > of configuration update. But I would very much regard this as a special > case that is designed as a combined action/RPC solely to make life easier > for clients rather than the defacto approach. I.e., I would like there to > be an equivalent mechanism that works, is just as secure and complete, > using regular NETCONF config operations and normal > semantics. Then the question becomes: If we can do this using regular > NETCONF semantics, do we still need a separate "easy to use" action/RPC as > well? > > > IMO it is fair to ask how many servers support actions that change configuration today? If several vendors say "this is great! we use it all the time! no problems at all!" then it is probably appropriate for standardization. Otherwise, not so much. (I don't think any vendors use this design pattern now) > > > > > and so perhaps (2) is all > > > we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not > > > mentioned) action to delete the key from (presumably > > > after having deleted the same from ). Yes, it is less > > > friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1). I'll update > > > the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach (2). > > > > I don't think (2) is the right solution either. I think the previous > > version of the draft was very close to a workable solution. > > > > > That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to enable a > > > client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or request > > > the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in my > > > first link above]. > > > > I don't it is necessary to give up this. > > > > IMO the only problematic use case is "let the device generate a key that > > then becomes part of the config". If we avoid that I think we can handle > > the other cases. > > I think that Juergen's idea of "store the name of the key in the > configuration, but not necessarily the value" is along the right lines. > - If the client is willing to write the key into the configuration, > perhaps obfuscated, or encrypted, then that is fine. > - If the client wants the server to allocate the keys that also works. > > Taking Kent's tree diagram from the 3rd of May, perhaps this could be > modified from: > > +--rw keystore > +--rw asymmetric-keys > +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] > +--rw name > +--rw algorithm? <--- optional? > +--rw public-key? <--- optional? > +--rw private-key? union <--- optional? > (note union) > +---x generate-hidden-key > +---x install-hidden-key > +---x generate-certificate-signing-request > +--rw certificates > +--rw certificate* [name] > > to something like this: > > +--rw keystore > +--rw asymmetric-keys > +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] > +--rw name > +--rw type! <-- New > mandatory field > +--rw algorithm? <--- optional > +--rw public-key? <--- optional > +--rw private-key? union <--- optional > +---x regenerate-hidden-key > +---x install-hidden-key > +---x generate-certificate-signing-request > +--rw certificates > +--rw certificate* [name] > > Where the new "type" enum field could have 4 options such as: > - plain-text <= configured algo, public/private keys in raw format (not > secure, transferable) > - obscured <= as above, but obscured with a known reversible mechanism > (not secure, transferable) > - encrypted <= as above, but encrypted using server's public key > (secure, not transferable) > - server-allocated <= only name and optionally algorithm in running > config, the server allocates the key when applying the configuration, > public key is available in operational, private key is never reported. Key > pair is persisted outside of YANG configuration. > > YANG "must" statements could be added to "algorithm", "public-key" and > "private-key", to enforce that these are always provided if type is > (plain-text, obscured, encrypted). > > The "regenerate-hidden-key" action would allow a server-allocated hidden > key to be regenerated if required. If user configuration caused the key to > be created in the first place, then the key would also be deleted if the > key list entry is deleted from configuration. > > A server could also automatically create its own key, without any user > intervention. The server chooses the key name, and the key would be of > type "server-allocated" but it would only exist in operational > (origin=system). If the key needs to be referenced in configuration then > the client would need to configure (asymmetric-key, > name=, type=server-allocated) into the > configuration. Subsequently removing the configuration wouldn't delete the > key (because it is system created, and always exists), but > regenerate-hidden-key should work to force the key to be regenerated if > required. The server persists the key outside of YANG configuration. > > The "install-hidden-key" action would allow a client to replace any > server-allocated hidden key. > > Finally, if we are concerned about ease of use, then I would OK with a RPC > being defined that performs an edit-config request to just add a named > asymmetric-key of type server-allocated. The RPC could also return the > public key that has been generated by the server. Note that this RPC isn't > required, everything that can be done with the RPC can still be achieved > through editing the configuration using edit-config, and reading the public > key back with get-data, its only purpose to simplify a use case for > clients, and perhaps to allow it to have different NACM permissions. > > Would a scheme like this work? Or am I [still] missing something? > I also like Juergen's approach. Thanks, > Rob > > Andy > > > > > > > > > I would support this less complete solution because it still supports > > > basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated keys for, e.g., > > > IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable go-to-market solution. > > > If folks don't like the update per the previous paragraph, then this > > > looks like a good fallback. > > > > > > /martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netconf mailing list > > netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000a2e153058b5ea939 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM Rob = Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com= > wrote:
= Hi Martin, Kent,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund<= br> > Sent: 13 June 2019 16:43
> To: kent+i= etf@watsen.net
> Cc: netconf@ietf= .org
> Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts
>
> Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
> >
> > >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding = 9;verbs' in an
> > >>> ad-hoc data format. I rather not support creation of= keys on the
> device.
> > >>
> > >> Remember we had this cases:
> > >>
> > >> 1.=C2=A0 upload of keys
> > >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hard= ware
> protected
> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 storage (and never be accessible) 2b. gener= ation of keys on the
> > >> box that will be stored on disk
> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and never be accessible over the mgmt inte= rface) 3.=C2=A0 generation
> > >> of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration=
> >
> > This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here:
> > https://mailarchive.= ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7u
> > Icc
> >
> <https://mailarchiv= e.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7uIcc
> >.
>
> #1 (pre-existing key in hw) is orthogonal to the pain points we have h= ere;
> it should be possible to handle this case.
>
> #3 (upload of hidden key) should also be straight forward with an acti= on.
>
>
> > Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - hi= dden
> > is hidden, however it's implemented.
>
> I know, but the discussion seems to imply that this would be useful an= d it
> seems trivial to support.
>
>
> > >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG act= ions)
> > >> handles
> > >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates).
> > >>
> > >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for tha= t everybody
> > >> accepts.
> > >>
> > >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish = that, and
> > >> leave 3 for the future?
> > >
> > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there = be a way
> > > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I hav= e to
> > > take a bigger hammer to accomplish this?
> >
> > I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the k= ey's
> > 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory = true,
> > our doing that before was unhelpful.
>
> I need to go back and re-read (again, I just read all threads on this<= br> > issue) some mails to understand what this means.
>
>
> > I was hoping that the "verbs"
> > approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly<= br> > > against it, then we should go back to the approach described here= :
> > https://mailarchive.= ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQMJ
> > usY
> > <https://mailarchi= ve.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQM
> > JusY>, for which a draft was never published.
> >
> > In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what= this action
> > does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, b= ut one
> > that Martin appears to be strictly against
>
> Yes, and Andy and Rob (at least).=C2=A0 And I do not agree that it is = user
> friendly at all!

I don't think that I'm necessarily against having an action (or RPC= ) that generates a pair of keys and writes them to configuration as a speci= al type of configuration update.=C2=A0 But I would very much regard this as= a special case that is designed as a combined action/RPC solely to make li= fe easier for clients rather than the defacto approach.=C2=A0 I.e., I would= like there to be an equivalent mechanism that works, is just as secure and= complete, using regular NETCONF <edit-config> config operations and = normal semantics.=C2=A0 Then the question becomes: If we can do this using = regular NETCONF semantics, do we still need a separate "easy to use&qu= ot; action/RPC as well?




IMO it is fair to ask h= ow many servers support actions that change configuration today?
= If several vendors say "this is great! we use it all the time! no prob= lems at all!" then
it is probably appropriate for standardiz= ation. Otherwise, not so much.
(I don't think any vendors use= this design pattern now)

=C2=A0
>
> > and so perhaps (2) is all
> > we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not
> > mentioned) action to delete the key from <operational> (pre= sumably
> > after having deleted the same from <running>).=C2=A0 Yes, i= t is less
> > friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1).=C2=A0= I'll update
> > the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach (2).
>
> I don't think (2) is the right solution either.=C2=A0 I think the = previous
> version of the draft was very close to a workable solution.
>
> > That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to e= nable a
> > client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or re= quest
> > the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in = my
> > first link above].
>
> I don't it is necessary to give up this.
>
> IMO the only problematic use case is "let the device generate a k= ey that
> then becomes part of the config".=C2=A0 If we avoid that I think = we can handle
> the other cases.

I think that Juergen's idea of "store the name of the key in the &= lt;running> configuration, but not necessarily the value" is along = the right lines.
=C2=A0- If the client is willing to write the key into the configuration, p= erhaps obfuscated, or encrypted, then that is fine.
=C2=A0- If the client wants the server to allocate the keys that also works= .

Taking Kent's tree diagram from the 3rd of May, perhaps this could be m= odified from:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw keystore
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw asymmetric-keys
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw asymmetric-key* [name]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw name
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw algorithm?=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<--- optional?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw public-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <--- optional?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw private-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0union=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<--- optional?=C2=A0 =C2=A0(note union)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x generate-hidden-key<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x install-hidden-key =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x generate-certificate= -signing-request
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw certificates
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw certifi= cate* [name]

to something like this:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw keystore
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw asymmetric-keys
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw asymmetric-key* [name]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw name
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw type!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <-- New mandatory field
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw algorithm?=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<--- optional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw public-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <--- optional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw private-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0union=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<--- optional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x regenerate-hidden-ke= y
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x install-hidden-key =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x generate-certificate= -signing-request
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw certificates
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw certifi= cate* [name]

Where the new "type" enum field could have 4 options such as:
=C2=A0- plain-text <=3D configured algo, public/private keys in raw form= at (not secure, transferable)
=C2=A0- obscured=C2=A0 =C2=A0<=3D as above, but obscured with a known re= versible mechanism (not secure, transferable)
=C2=A0- encrypted=C2=A0 <=3D as above, but encrypted using server's = public key (secure, not transferable)
=C2=A0- server-allocated <=3D only name and optionally algorithm in runn= ing config, the server allocates the key when applying the configuration, p= ublic key is available in operational, private key is never reported.=C2=A0= Key pair is persisted outside of YANG configuration.

YANG "must" statements could be added to "algorithm", &= quot;public-key" and "private-key", to enforce that these ar= e always provided if type is (plain-text, obscured, encrypted).

The "regenerate-hidden-key" action would allow a server-allocated= hidden key to be regenerated if required.=C2=A0 If user configuration caus= ed the key to be created in the first place, then the key would also be del= eted if the key list entry is deleted from configuration.

A server could also automatically create its own key, without any user inte= rvention.=C2=A0 The server chooses the key name, and the key would be of ty= pe "server-allocated" but it would only exist in operational (ori= gin=3Dsystem).=C2=A0 If the key needs to be referenced in configuration the= n the client would need to configure (asymmetric-key, name=3D<server-ass= igned-key-name>, type=3Dserver-allocated) into the configuration.=C2=A0 = Subsequently removing the configuration wouldn't delete the key (becaus= e it is system created, and always exists), but regenerate-hidden-key shoul= d work to force the key to be regenerated if required.=C2=A0 The server per= sists the key outside of YANG configuration.

The "install-hidden-key" action would allow a client to replace a= ny server-allocated hidden key.

Finally, if we are concerned about ease of use, then I would OK with a RPC = being defined that performs an edit-config request to just add a named asym= metric-key of type server-allocated.=C2=A0 The RPC could also return the pu= blic key that has been generated by the server.=C2=A0 Note that this RPC is= n't required, everything that can be done with the RPC can still be ach= ieved through editing the configuration using edit-config, and reading the = public key back with get-data, its only purpose to simplify a use case for = clients, and perhaps to allow it to have different NACM permissions.

Would a scheme like this work?=C2=A0 Or am I [still] missing something?
=

=C2=A0
I also like Juergen's= approach.



Thanks,
Rob



Andy
=C2=A0


>
>
> > I would support this less complete solution because it still supp= orts
> > basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated keys for, e.g= .,
> > IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable go-to-market soluti= on.
> > If folks don't like the update per the previous paragraph, th= en this
> > looks like a good fallback.
>
>
> /martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
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SMTP id o13mr16204761ljc.81.1560788509866; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:21:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190613.130024.515576855897220606.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190613111023.ngllkl22zj2vsowp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100016b5158eba2-6c8348a2-aacc-48c6-adf9-aab39b0ef3a9-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190613.174326.268927196019178879.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: tom petch , Martin Bjorklund , "kent+ietf@watsen.net" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b3552a058b876432" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:21:58 -0000 --000000000000b3552a058b876432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 6:01 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Andy, > > > > Generally, we try and avoid actions modifying configuration, but in some > cases this might be allowed (e.g. renumbering ACL entries, or disabling > some hardware moves active configuration to pre-configuration). > > > > However, the circumstances where an action might be useful for this > scenario is potentially a bit different from regular network device > configuration. > > > > E.g. some programmatic mechanism to easily add a key to a client device, > the scenario described by Tom in: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/7zOypLmuSnMUIYfsc_wTl2nS-84 > > > > I don=E2=80=99t know the exact details of what is required here, but havi= ng an > action (or RPC), dependent on a feature, might be reasonable for this > scenario. I would see this purely as an alternative mechanism to achievi= ng > the same end goal as regular configuration, potentially to allow differen= t > NACM rules on the action/RPC. > > > IMO it is a bad idea to create configuration as a side effect of an action. Period. What if the config is locked? Access control allows the user to invoke action but not change that specific config? Do the netconf-config-change and yang-push notifications get generated? Will the user or the system be identified in the audit logs? (Too much implementation complexity as well, but the IETF does not care about that.) It seems much cleaner for the action to return a label for the keys/cert (e.g., any sensitive data) and then the client must configure its use somehow using normal editing operations. Thanks, > > Rob > > > Andy > > > *From:* Andy Bierman > *Sent:* 15 June 2019 16:46 > *To:* Rob Wilton (rwilton) > *Cc:* Martin Bjorklund ; kent+ietf@watsen.net; > netconf@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: > > Hi Martin, Kent, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netconf On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund > > Sent: 13 June 2019 16:43 > > To: kent+ietf@watsen.net > > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts > > > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding 'verbs' in an > > > >>> ad-hoc data format. I rather not support creation of keys on the > > device. > > > >> > > > >> Remember we had this cases: > > > >> > > > >> 1. upload of keys > > > >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hardware > > protected > > > >> storage (and never be accessible) 2b. generation of keys on the > > > >> box that will be stored on disk > > > >> (and never be accessible over the mgmt interface) 3. generatio= n > > > >> of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration > > > > > > This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here: > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7= u > > > Icc > > > > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7uIcc > > >. > > > > #1 (pre-existing key in hw) is orthogonal to the pain points we have > here; > > it should be possible to handle this case. > > > > #3 (upload of hidden key) should also be straight forward with an actio= n. > > > > > > > Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - hidden > > > is hidden, however it's implemented. > > > > I know, but the discussion seems to imply that this would be useful and > it > > seems trivial to support. > > > > > > > >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG actions) > > > >> handles > > > >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates). > > > >> > > > >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for that everybody > > > >> accepts. > > > >> > > > >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish that, and > > > >> leave 3 for the future? > > > > > > > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there be a wa= y > > > > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I have to > > > > take a bigger hammer to accomplish this? > > > > > > I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the key's > > > 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory true= , > > > our doing that before was unhelpful. > > > > I need to go back and re-read (again, I just read all threads on this > > issue) some mails to understand what this means. > > > > > > > I was hoping that the "verbs" > > > approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly > > > against it, then we should go back to the approach described here: > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQM= J > > > usY > > > > > JusY>, for which a draft was never published. > > > > > > In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what this action > > > does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, but one > > > that Martin appears to be strictly against > > > > Yes, and Andy and Rob (at least). And I do not agree that it is user > > friendly at all! > > I don't think that I'm necessarily against having an action (or RPC) that > generates a pair of keys and writes them to configuration as a special ty= pe > of configuration update. But I would very much regard this as a special > case that is designed as a combined action/RPC solely to make life easier > for clients rather than the defacto approach. I.e., I would like there t= o > be an equivalent mechanism that works, is just as secure and complete, > using regular NETCONF config operations and normal > semantics. Then the question becomes: If we can do this using regular > NETCONF semantics, do we still need a separate "easy to use" action/RPC a= s > well? > > > > > > IMO it is fair to ask how many servers support actions that change > configuration today? > > If several vendors say "this is great! we use it all the time! no problem= s > at all!" then > > it is probably appropriate for standardization. Otherwise, not so much. > > (I don't think any vendors use this design pattern now) > > > > > > *[RW] * > > > > > > > > > > > > and so perhaps (2) is all > > > we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not > > > mentioned) action to delete the key from (presumably > > > after having deleted the same from ). Yes, it is less > > > friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1). I'll update > > > the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach (2). > > > > I don't think (2) is the right solution either. I think the previous > > version of the draft was very close to a workable solution. > > > > > That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to enable a > > > client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or reques= t > > > the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in my > > > first link above]. > > > > I don't it is necessary to give up this. > > > > IMO the only problematic use case is "let the device generate a key tha= t > > then becomes part of the config". If we avoid that I think we can hand= le > > the other cases. > > I think that Juergen's idea of "store the name of the key in the > configuration, but not necessarily the value" is along the right lines. > - If the client is willing to write the key into the configuration, > perhaps obfuscated, or encrypted, then that is fine. > - If the client wants the server to allocate the keys that also works. > > Taking Kent's tree diagram from the 3rd of May, perhaps this could be > modified from: > > +--rw keystore > +--rw asymmetric-keys > +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] > +--rw name > +--rw algorithm? <--- optional? > +--rw public-key? <--- optional? > +--rw private-key? union <--- optional? > (note union) > +---x generate-hidden-key > +---x install-hidden-key > +---x generate-certificate-signing-request > +--rw certificates > +--rw certificate* [name] > > to something like this: > > +--rw keystore > +--rw asymmetric-keys > +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] > +--rw name > +--rw type! <-- New > mandatory field > +--rw algorithm? <--- optional > +--rw public-key? <--- optional > +--rw private-key? union <--- optional > +---x regenerate-hidden-key > +---x install-hidden-key > +---x generate-certificate-signing-request > +--rw certificates > +--rw certificate* [name] > > Where the new "type" enum field could have 4 options such as: > - plain-text <=3D configured algo, public/private keys in raw format (no= t > secure, transferable) > - obscured <=3D as above, but obscured with a known reversible mechani= sm > (not secure, transferable) > - encrypted <=3D as above, but encrypted using server's public key > (secure, not transferable) > - server-allocated <=3D only name and optionally algorithm in running > config, the server allocates the key when applying the configuration, > public key is available in operational, private key is never reported. K= ey > pair is persisted outside of YANG configuration. > > YANG "must" statements could be added to "algorithm", "public-key" and > "private-key", to enforce that these are always provided if type is > (plain-text, obscured, encrypted). > > The "regenerate-hidden-key" action would allow a server-allocated hidden > key to be regenerated if required. If user configuration caused the key = to > be created in the first place, then the key would also be deleted if the > key list entry is deleted from configuration. > > A server could also automatically create its own key, without any user > intervention. The server chooses the key name, and the key would be of > type "server-allocated" but it would only exist in operational > (origin=3Dsystem). If the key needs to be referenced in configuration th= en > the client would need to configure (asymmetric-key, > name=3D, type=3Dserver-allocated) into the > configuration. Subsequently removing the configuration wouldn't delete t= he > key (because it is system created, and always exists), but > regenerate-hidden-key should work to force the key to be regenerated if > required. The server persists the key outside of YANG configuration. > > The "install-hidden-key" action would allow a client to replace any > server-allocated hidden key. > > Finally, if we are concerned about ease of use, then I would OK with a RP= C > being defined that performs an edit-config request to just add a named > asymmetric-key of type server-allocated. The RPC could also return the > public key that has been generated by the server. Note that this RPC isn= 't > required, everything that can be done with the RPC can still be achieved > through editing the configuration using edit-config, and reading the publ= ic > key back with get-data, its only purpose to simplify a use case for > clients, and perhaps to allow it to have different NACM permissions. > > Would a scheme like this work? Or am I [still] missing something? > > > > > > I also like Juergen's approach. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > I would support this less complete solution because it still supports > > > basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated keys for, e.g., > > > IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable go-to-market solution. > > > If folks don't like the update per the previous paragraph, then this > > > looks like a good fallback. > > > > > > /martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netconf mailing list > > netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > --000000000000b3552a058b876432 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 6:01 AM Rob W= ilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com<= /a>> wrote:

Hi Andy,

=C2=A0

Generally, we try and avoid actions modifying = configuration, but in some cases this might be allowed (e.g. renumbering AC= L entries, or disabling some hardware moves active configuration to pre-con= figuration).

=C2=A0

However, the circumstances where an action mig= ht be useful for this scenario is potentially a bit different from regular = network device configuration.

=C2=A0

E.g. some programmatic mechanism to easily add= a key to a client device, the scenario described by Tom in:<= /span>

https://mailarchive.iet= f.org/arch/msg/netconf/7zOypLmuSnMUIYfsc_wTl2nS-84

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t know the exact details of what= is required here, but having an action (or RPC), dependent on a feature, m= ight be reasonable for this scenario.=C2=A0 I would see this purely as an a= lternative mechanism to achieving the same end goal as regular configuration, potentially to al= low different NACM rules on the action/RPC.

=C2=A0


IMO it is a bad idea to create configuration as a si= de effect of an action. Period.
What if the config is locked? Acc= ess control allows the user to invoke action but not
change that = specific config? Do the netconf-config-change and yang-push notifications
get generated? Will the user or the system be identified in the au= dit logs?
(Too much implementation complexity as well, but the IE= TF does not care about that.)

It seems much cleane= r for the action to return a label for the keys/cert (e.g., any sensitive d= ata)
and then the client must configure its use somehow using nor= mal editing operations.


Thanks,

Rob

=C2=A0


Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Sent: 15 June 2019 16:46
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Cc: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>; kent+ietf@watsen.net; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton= ) <rwilton@cisco.= com> wrote:

Hi Martin, Kent,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Martin Bjorklund<= br> > Sent: 13 June 2019 16:43
> To: kent+i= etf@watsen.net
> Cc: netconf@ietf= .org
> Subject: Re: [netconf] updates to client/server drafts
>
> Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
> >
> > >>> I am strictly against hiding actions by encoding = 9;verbs' in an
> > >>> ad-hoc data format. I rather not support creation of= keys on the
> device.
> > >>
> > >> Remember we had this cases:
> > >>
> > >> 1.=C2=A0 upload of keys
> > >> 2a. generation of keys on the box that will go into hard= ware
> protected
> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 storage (and never be accessible) 2b. gener= ation of keys on the
> > >> box that will be stored on disk
> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and never be accessible over the mgmt inte= rface) 3.=C2=A0 generation
> > >> of keys on the box that become (protected) configuration=
> >
> > This list is missing cases #1 and #3 described here:
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7u<= br> > > Icc
> >
> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg= /netconf/eRDvDhOHikEq4fRJJGj8dD7uIcc
> >.
>
> #1 (pre-existing key in hw) is orthogonal to the pain points we have h= ere;
> it should be possible to handle this case.
>
> #3 (upload of hidden key) should also be straight forward with an acti= on.
>
>
> > Also, we currently make no distinction between (2a) and (2b) - hi= dden
> > is hidden, however it's implemented.
>
> I know, but the discussion seems to imply that this would be useful an= d it
> seems trivial to support.
>
>
> > >> I think the previous version of the draft (with YANG act= ions)
> > >> handles
> > >> 1 and 2 (a and b with trivial updates).
> > >>
> > >> It is only (3) that we don't have a solution for tha= t everybody
> > >> accepts.
> > >>
> > >> So perhaps we should solve 1 and 2a and 2b, and publish = that, and
> > >> leave 3 for the future?
> > >
> > > This may be a way to move forward. In 2a and 2b, will there = be a way
> > > to remove a generated key via the mgmt interface or do I hav= e to
> > > take a bigger hammer to accomplish this?
> >
> > I object to reverting to the approach that doesn't have the k= ey's
> > 3-tuple (algorithm, public key, private key) marked as mandatory = true,
> > our doing that before was unhelpful.
>
> I need to go back and re-read (again, I just read all threads on this<= br> > issue) some mails to understand what this means.
>
>
> > I was hoping that the "verbs"
> > approach could leap over the impasse but, if Juergen is strictly<= br> > > against it, then we should go back to the approach described here= :
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQMJ<= br> > > usY
> > <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/ms= g/netconf/P-xcpHqUNq3LfX5meOCpNQM
> > JusY>, for which a draft was never published.
> >
> > In the previous link, search for "Now let's discuss what= this action
> > does" and note the two options: (1) is more user-friendly, b= ut one
> > that Martin appears to be strictly against
>
> Yes, and Andy and Rob (at least).=C2=A0 And I do not agree that it is = user
> friendly at all!

I don't think that I'm necessarily against having an action (or RPC= ) that generates a pair of keys and writes them to configuration as a speci= al type of configuration update.=C2=A0 But I would very much regard this as= a special case that is designed as a combined action/RPC solely to make life easier for clients rather than the defacto = approach.=C2=A0 I.e., I would like there to be an equivalent mechanism that= works, is just as secure and complete, using regular NETCONF <edit-conf= ig> config operations and normal semantics.=C2=A0 Then the question becomes: If we can do this using regular NETCONF semanti= cs, do we still need a separate "easy to use" action/RPC as well?=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMO it is fair to ask how many servers support actio= ns that change configuration today?

If several vendors say "this is great! we use i= t all the time! no problems at all!" then

it is probably appropriate for standardization. Othe= rwise, not so much.

(I don't think any vendors use this design patte= rn now)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[RW]

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

>
> > and so perhaps (2) is all
> > we can agree on, and yes, there would need to be a third (not
> > mentioned) action to delete the key from <operational> (pre= sumably
> > after having deleted the same from <running>).=C2=A0 Yes, i= t is less
> > friendly, if you want more friendly, then let's do (1).=C2=A0= I'll update
> > the draft shortly based on the less-friendly approach (2).
>
> I don't think (2) is the right solution either.=C2=A0 I think the = previous
> version of the draft was very close to a workable solution.
>
> > That said, I'm also okay with giving up (for now) trying to e= nable a
> > client request the server to generate a key (hidden or not) or re= quest
> > the server to install a hidden key [note: these are #2 and #3 in = my
> > first link above].
>
> I don't it is necessary to give up this.
>
> IMO the only problematic use case is "let the device generate a k= ey that
> then becomes part of the config".=C2=A0 If we avoid that I think = we can handle
> the other cases.

I think that Juergen's idea of "store the name of the key in the &= lt;running> configuration, but not necessarily the value" is along = the right lines.
=C2=A0- If the client is willing to write the key into the configuration, p= erhaps obfuscated, or encrypted, then that is fine.
=C2=A0- If the client wants the server to allocate the keys that also works= .

Taking Kent's tree diagram from the 3rd of May, perhaps this could be m= odified from:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw keystore
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw asymmetric-keys
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw asymmetric-key* [name]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw name
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw algorithm?=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<--- optional?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw public-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <--- optional?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw private-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0union=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<--- optional?=C2=A0 =C2=A0(note union)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x generate-hidden-key<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x install-hidden-key =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x generate-certificate= -signing-request
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw certificates
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw certifi= cate* [name]

to something like this:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw keystore
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw asymmetric-keys
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw asymmetric-key* [name]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw name
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw type!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <-- New mandatory field
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw algorithm?=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<--- optional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw public-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <--- optional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw private-key?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0union=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<--- optional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x regenerate-hidden-ke= y
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x install-hidden-key =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---x generate-certificate= -signing-request
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw certificates
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw certifi= cate* [name]

Where the new "type" enum field could have 4 options such as:
=C2=A0- plain-text <=3D configured algo, public/private keys in raw form= at (not secure, transferable)
=C2=A0- obscured=C2=A0 =C2=A0<=3D as above, but obscured with a known re= versible mechanism (not secure, transferable)
=C2=A0- encrypted=C2=A0 <=3D as above, but encrypted using server's = public key (secure, not transferable)
=C2=A0- server-allocated <=3D only name and optionally algorithm in runn= ing config, the server allocates the key when applying the configuration, p= ublic key is available in operational, private key is never reported.=C2=A0= Key pair is persisted outside of YANG configuration.

YANG "must" statements could be added to "algorithm", &= quot;public-key" and "private-key", to enforce that these ar= e always provided if type is (plain-text, obscured, encrypted).

The "regenerate-hidden-key" action would allow a server-allocated= hidden key to be regenerated if required.=C2=A0 If user configuration caus= ed the key to be created in the first place, then the key would also be del= eted if the key list entry is deleted from configuration.

A server could also automatically create its own key, without any user inte= rvention.=C2=A0 The server chooses the key name, and the key would be of ty= pe "server-allocated" but it would only exist in operational (ori= gin=3Dsystem).=C2=A0 If the key needs to be referenced in configuration then the client would need to configure (asymmetric-key, = name=3D<server-assigned-key-name>, type=3Dserver-allocated) into the = configuration.=C2=A0 Subsequently removing the configuration wouldn't d= elete the key (because it is system created, and always exists), but regenerate-hidden-key should work to force the key to be rege= nerated if required.=C2=A0 The server persists the key outside of YANG conf= iguration.

The "install-hidden-key" action would allow a client to replace a= ny server-allocated hidden key.

Finally, if we are concerned about ease of use, then I would OK with a RPC = being defined that performs an edit-config request to just add a named asym= metric-key of type server-allocated.=C2=A0 The RPC could also return the pu= blic key that has been generated by the server.=C2=A0 Note that this RPC isn't required, everything that can b= e done with the RPC can still be achieved through editing the configuration= using edit-config, and reading the public key back with get-data, its only= purpose to simplify a use case for clients, and perhaps to allow it to have different NACM permissions.

Would a scheme like this work?=C2=A0 Or am I [still] missing something?<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I also like Juergen's approach.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,
Rob

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0



>
>
> > I would support this less complete solution because it still supp= orts
> > basic configuration (#0) and manufacturer-generated keys for, e.g= .,
> > IDevID certificates (#1), and thus a passable go-to-market soluti= on.
> > If folks don't like the update per the previous paragraph, th= en this
> > looks like a good fallback.
>
>
> /martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--000000000000b3552a058b876432-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 09:46:49 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b66556694-56a6a8b2-d9b7-4d5c-958a-82fad5d86745-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F371201CE for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:46:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ma1gswxa7-Ap for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A59FC120092 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:46:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560790001; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=Ywo3tADBzDG4s7um+wferNHensk4fABKGeRsSfGk2IU=; b=M10htdFKhSBtAxIUtvGr4DcEjP5BmHSrkJNyF3gbr8gAE9RfBXCQkAymCM5ivwi9 p9btAuX+txYtVZORq/ADZbI/24hhKlrHFUGo5r33EzYfuO295o8g1ykzE9nzs5HcA8Z KbGOTsgJ8AiVedrNZzCN0mywy0Uq0Vf3BNFm33WE= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b66556694-56a6a8b2-d9b7-4d5c-958a-82fad5d86745-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BB26EBCF-9424-409F-83A9-A09A0EB4A603" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:46:41 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBLb3bDoWNz?= References: <0100016b4b459a4b-58d12364-7b0d-4f73-8fb4-66a9d8595079-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.17-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] draft-ietf-keystore - certificate leafref X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:46:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BB26EBCF-9424-409F-83A9-A09A0EB4A603 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Balazs, I decided to replaced typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref with new = "asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping". Effectively the same, but = allow use elsewhere. Here's the diff: = https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/commit/2f59e8d91709a87d0ff98efafac2= a36f420a1882 = I also fixed a typo in the 'path' statement: s/name/ks:name. Some = light testing suggests it's working as expected. Thanks, Kent // contributor > On Jun 14, 2019, at 4:02 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs = wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > I hope it is ok this way. > =20 > I changed local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping (see = container =E2=80=98keystore-reference=E2=80=99). > =20 > grouping local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping { > description > "A grouping that expands to allow an end-entity certificate > (and its associated private key) to be either stored locally, > within the using data model, or be a reference to a specific > certificate in the keystore."; > choice local-or-keystore { > mandatory true; > case local { > if-feature "local-keys-supported"; > container local-definition { > must '(algorithm and public-key and private-key) > or not (algorithm or public-key or private-key)' { > description > "These descendent nodes are not mandatory because they > MAY be defined in . Implementations MUST > assert that these values are either configured or that > they exist in ."; > } > description > "Container to hold the local key definition."; > uses ct:asymmetric-key-pair-grouping; > uses ct:end-entity-cert-grouping; > } > } > case keystore { > if-feature "keystore-supported"; > container keystore-reference { > description > "A reference to a specific certificate, and its > associated private key, stored in the keystore."; > leaf asymmetric-key { > type ks:asymmetric-key-ref; > description > "A reference to an asymmetric key that exists in > the keystore."; > } > leaf certificate { > type leafref { > path = "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key[name =3D = current()/../asymmetric-key]/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name"; > } > description > "A reference to a specific certificate of the=20 > asymmetric key in the keystore."; =20 > } > } > } > description > "A choice between an inlined definition and a definition > that exists in the keystore."; > } > } > =20 > I would recommend to remove ks:asymmetric-key-certificate-ref > The client server model examples would need to be updated, but those I = have not touched. > =20 > Br, > Balazs > =20 > From: Kent Watsen >=20 > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:40 PM > To: Bal=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs > > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-keystore - certificate leafref > =20 > =20 > Hi Balazs, > =20 > Yes, that would be better. Please provide the NEW text needed.=20 >=20 > Kent=20 > =20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Jun 12, 2019, at 5:14 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs = > wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > Ietf-keystore model contains this leafref: > =20 > typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref { > type leafref { > path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key" > + "/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name"; > } > description > "This typedef enables modules to easily define a reference > to a specific certificate associated with an asymmetric key > stored in the keystore."; > } > =20 > Shouldn=E2=80=99t the leafref be constrained to point to a certificate = within a specific asymmetric-key list element? > =20 > Example: > = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/m0s9xAcDpJVm1a0-eWyTDvpXtZ0 = = > =20 > Best Regards, > Balazs > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = --Apple-Mail=_BB26EBCF-9424-409F-83A9-A09A0EB4A603 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Balazs,

I decided = to replaced typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref with new = "asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping".  Effectively the same, = but allow use elsewhere.  Here's the diff:

https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/commit/2f59e8d91709a87d0= ff98efafac2a36f420a1882

I also fixed a typo in the 'path' statement: = s/name/ks:name.   Some light testing suggests it's working as = expected.

Thanks,
Kent // contributor



On Jun = 14, 2019, at 4:02 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs <balazs.kovacs@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi = Kent,
 
I hope it = is ok this way.
 
  1. I changed = local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping (see container = =E2=80=98keystore-reference=E2=80=99).
 
  grouping = local-or-keystore-end-entity-cert-with-key-grouping {
    description
      "A = grouping that expands to allow an end-entity certificate
       (and its associated = private key) to be either stored locally,
       = within the using data model, or be a reference to a specific
       certificate in the = keystore.";
    choice local-or-keystore {
      mandatory true;
      case local {
        if-feature = "local-keys-supported";
        container = local-definition {
          must = '(algorithm and public-key and private-key)
          &nb= sp;     or not (algorithm or public-key or = private-key)' {
         =    description
          &nb= sp;   "These descendent nodes are not mandatory because = they
          &nb= sp;    MAY be defined in <operational>.  = Implementations MUST
          &nb= sp;    assert that these values are either configured or = that
          &nb= sp;    they exist in <operational>.";
          }
          = description
          &nb= sp; "Container to hold the local key definition.";
          uses = ct:asymmetric-key-pair-grouping;
          uses = ct:end-entity-cert-grouping;
        }
      }
      case keystore {
        if-feature = "keystore-supported";
        container = keystore-reference {
          = description
          &nb= sp; "A reference to a specific certificate, and its
          &nb= sp;  associated private key, stored in the keystore.";
          leaf = asymmetric-key {
          &nb= sp; type ks:asymmetric-key-ref;
          &nb= sp; description
          &nb= sp;   "A reference to an asymmetric key that exists in
          &nb= sp;    the keystore.";
          }
          leaf = certificate {
          &nb= sp; type leafref {
          &nb= sp;     path = "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key[name =3D = current()/../asymmetric-key]/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name";
          &nb= sp; }
          &nb= sp; description
          &nb= sp;   "A reference to a specific certificate of the 
          &nb= sp;    asymmetric key in the = keystore.";    
          }
        }
      }
      description
        "A choice between = an inlined definition and a definition
         that exists = in the keystore.";
    }
  }
 
  1. I would = recommend to remove ks:asymmetric-key-certificate-ref
  2. The client server model examples would need to be updated, = but those I have not touched.
 
Br,
Balazs
 
From: Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 = 12:40 PM
To: Bal=C3=A1zs Kov=C3=A1cs = <balazs.kovacs@ericsson.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-keystore - = certificate leafref
 
 
Hi Balazs,
 
Yes, that would be better.  Please provide the NEW text = needed. 

Kent 
 
Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 12, 2019, at 5:14 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs = Kov=C3=A1cs <balazs.kovacs@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Kent,
 
Ietf-keystore model contains this leafref:
 
     typedef =
asymmetric-key-certificate-ref {
       =
type leafref {
         path =
"/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key"
          &nb=
sp; + "/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name";
       }
       description
         "This =
typedef enables modules to easily define a reference
          to a =
specific certificate associated with an asymmetric key
          stored =
in the keystore.";
     }
 
Shouldn=E2=80=99t the leafref be = constrained to point to a certificate within a specific asymmetric-key = list element?
 
Example:
 
Best Regards,
Balazs
 
 
_______________________________________________
netconf = mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_BB26EBCF-9424-409F-83A9-A09A0EB4A603-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 18:57:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADE512003F; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:57:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <156082303674.22417.15405633566971948194@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:57:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 01:57:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography Authors : Kent Watsen Wang Haiguang Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08.txt Pages : 56 Date : 2019-06-17 Abstract: This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings useful for cryptographic applications. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jun 17 18:58:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2803F1200F8; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:58:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <156082310612.22409.8480171934828430451@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:58:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 01:58:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for a Keystore Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2019-06-17 Abstract: This document defines a YANG 1.1 module called "ietf-keystore" that enables centralized configuration of asymmetric keys and their associated certificates, and notification for when configured certificates are about to expire. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jun 17 19:45:16 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67EE7120203 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ASkTi73mE3NG for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 449D412003F for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:45:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560825907; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=N/PSONSaZQuV5MFTQY2dc91HmShCui/r3m1HANRhRuw=; b=eLm1CTU0tZPLBbNhoIN63PmF4DWawZa3J9S5mLhX2e58Tyy5bJkjzFGW6YaJLva6 L+ITQcaInCzhu/n8LA3BR8ZbnEV9nI13cWW+6mWAtVirwSFypIywdbURmwrx5OZ688N z9YprZM8KFYzBRhudpM8t/J0PT1QjqNNCORMuTAM= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3EA59D93-D597-4FC0-BD9F-3EC07D0F7D43" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 02:45:07 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.18-54.240.8.32 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 02:45:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3EA59D93-D597-4FC0-BD9F-3EC07D0F7D43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I started off trying to create a variation of "#2" but, as got into it, = I realized that *encrypting* the keys would solve most problems. Note = that we really don't want "hidden" keys at all, as them not being part = of configuration causes backup/restore problems. What we want are = values that can be treated like config, but are non-sensical without the = decryption key. Values MAY be encrypted using a manufacturer-generated = key (which locks the value to the device), or a key generated by a = *privileged* admin, which opens up the possibility for the key to float = between devices. =20 Specifically, imagine the following: Precondition: 1) devices are shipped from manufacturer with a hidden asymmetric key in = Post-SZTP Onboarding: 2) privileged admin copies manufacturer generated key from = to 3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the organization) = symmetric key using the public key from the manufacturer generated = asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., into = keystore. Device Swap: 4) if replacing a device, load previous configuration. Since all keys = should be encrypted to the same symmetric key, it should load without = error. [note: one issue here with the secret symmetric key itself being = loaded again, but since it was encrypted using to old device's = manufacturer generated asymmetric key, the logic should be able to = handle it.] Runtime: 5) whenever a regular admin wishes to use a new key, they call the = generate-symmetric-key or generate-asymmetric-key RPC, requesting the = device to generate a key for them, encrypting the result using the = secret organization key. =20 6) The RPC output returns the key value (encrypted). 7) The regular admin uses e.g., to store the key into = . Use cases:=20 0: normal (just NACM-protected) keys: supported. 1: manufacturer-generated permanently hidden keys: supported. 2: device-generated keys: supported. 3: device-generated keys in config: supported 4: permanently hidden keys: not recommended nor directly supported, but one could always encrypt a key with the device's public key, thus generating a key that only the device can decrypt, and hence effectively permenently hidden. Please let me know soon if you object to any aspect of this or, better, = support it, as I need to update the remaining drafts to reflect these = changes at some point soon. Below are the change log entries. crypto-types: o Removed the 'generate-key and 'hidden-key' features. o Added grouping symmetric-key-grouping o Modified 'asymmetric-key-pair-grouping' to have a 'choice' statement for the keystone module to augment into, as well as replacing the 'union' with leafs (having different NACM settings. o Diffs: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08 = keystore: o Replaced typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref with grouping asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping. o Added feature feature 'key-generation'. o Cloned groupings symmetric-key-grouping, asymmetric-key-pair- grouping, asymmetric-key-pair-with-cert-grouping, and asymmetric- key-pair-with-certs-grouping from crypto-keys, augmenting into each new case statements for values that have been encrypted by other keys in the keystore. Refactored keystore model to use these groupings. o Added new 'symmetric-keys' lists, as a sibling to the existing 'asymmetric-keys' list. o Added RPCs (not actions) 'generate-symmetric-key' and 'generate- asymmetric-key' to *return* a (potentially encrypted) key. o Diffs: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11 = Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_3EA59D93-D597-4FC0-BD9F-3EC07D0F7D43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I started off trying to create a = variation of "#2" but, as got into it, I realized that *encrypting* the = keys would solve most problems.  Note that we really don't want = "hidden" keys at all, as them not being part of configuration causes = backup/restore problems.  What we want are values that can be = treated like config, but are non-sensical without the decryption key. =  Values MAY be encrypted using a manufacturer-generated key (which = locks the value to the device), or a key generated by a *privileged* = admin, which opens up the possibility for the key to float between = devices.  

Specifically, imagine the = following:

Precondition:
1) devices are shipped from manufacturer with a = hidden asymmetric key in <operational>

Post-SZTP Onboarding:
2) privileged admin = copies manufacturer generated key from <operational> to = <running>
3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known = (secret to the organization) symmetric key using the public key from the = manufacturer generated asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., = <edit-config> into keystore.

Device Swap:
4) if replacing a = device, load previous configuration.  Since all keys should be = encrypted to the same symmetric key, it should load without error. =  [note: one issue here with the secret symmetric key itself being = loaded again, but since it was encrypted using to old device's = manufacturer generated asymmetric key, the logic should be able to = handle it.]

Runtime:
5) whenever a regular admin wishes to use a = new key, they call the generate-symmetric-key or generate-asymmetric-key = RPC, requesting the device to generate a key for them, encrypting the = result using the secret organization key.  
6) The RPC output returns the key value = (encrypted).
7) The regular admin uses e.g., <edit-config> = to store the key into <running>.


Use cases: 
  0: normal = (just NACM-protected) keys:  supported.
  1: = manufacturer-generated permanently hidden keys: supported.
  2: device-generated keys: supported.
  3: device-generated keys in config: = supported
  4: permanently hidden keys: not recommended = nor directly
     supported, but one could always = encrypt a key with the
     device's public key, thus = generating a key that only the
     device can = decrypt, and hence effectively permenently
    =  hidden.


Please let me know soon if you = object to any aspect of this or, better, support it, as I need to update = the remaining drafts to reflect these changes at some point = soon.


Below are the change log = entries.

crypto-types:

   o  Removed the = 'generate-key and 'hidden-key' features.

   o  Added grouping = symmetric-key-grouping

   o  Modified 'asymmetric-key-pair-grouping' = to have a 'choice'
      statement for the = keystone module to augment into, as well as
      replacing the 'union' with leafs (having = different NACM settings.

  =  o Diffs: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-crypto-t= ypes-08


keystore:

   o  Replaced typedef = asymmetric-key-certificate-ref with grouping
      = asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping.

   o  Added feature feature = 'key-generation'.

   o  Cloned groupings symmetric-key-grouping, = asymmetric-key-pair-
  =     grouping, asymmetric-key-pair-with-cert-grouping, and = asymmetric-
      = key-pair-with-certs-grouping from crypto-keys, augmenting = into
      each new case = statements for values that have been encrypted by
      other keys in the keystore.  = Refactored keystore model to use
  =     these groupings.

   o  Added new 'symmetric-keys' lists, as a = sibling to the existing
  =     'asymmetric-keys' list.

   o  Added RPCs (not actions) = 'generate-symmetric-key' and 'generate-
  =     asymmetric-key' to *return* a (potentially encrypted) = key.

   o =  Diffs: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-keystore= -11



Kent // contributor





= --Apple-Mail=_3EA59D93-D597-4FC0-BD9F-3EC07D0F7D43-- From nobody Thu Jun 20 07:52:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE0712002F; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 07:52:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 07:52:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:52:49 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography Authors : Kent Watsen Wang Haiguang Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt Pages : 56 Date : 2019-06-20 Abstract: This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings useful for cryptographic applications. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 20 08:44:11 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95EF1200B3 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwnYBV9Y_ZR6 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 08:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79523120091 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 08:44:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561045447; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=wvmF0bHDiglalyZoUD4TGbV4MGZRyUdUOqb6H5ZfEFc=; b=SgbceMPpVt9nh5jUy+r3K4ADYd1c/iGzzPntkcZN1D6k9JG5FZDj2pgQIY6TfGnO cJwELFRdgsshNqup7MOgL35USDKvGRs6OzgCpYw11wR0lTgRB1oFp9H/I1x0xnrt72q SVOQiFW14M/cwUGbPdDfRcYp3z8rhVTzigMBS0I4= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_533591F6-5930-4EDD-9A64-EAD44A15AF81" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 15:44:07 +0000 References: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.20-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 15:44:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_533591F6-5930-4EDD-9A64-EAD44A15AF81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This update converts the algorithms from being identities to = enumerations. This is suppose to be the result from the thread started on April 25 = entitled "The maintenance of the algorithm identifiers in = draft-ietf-crypto-types" but, actually, I think it's from an earlier = thread in which I believe Lada stated rationale for using enumerations = instead of identities (I can't find that thread right now). Seeing = that the enum "values" are just in position-order, I'm unsure what issue = this change resolves, but it seems nicer that a server doesn't have to = *implement* the module, and also the values don't have to be prefixed... All said, I think that the maintainability issue remains. IIRC, Tom = Petch suggestion breaking the algorithms into smaller modules, that is, = one module per what is now an "enumeration", and also I think that there = was a recommendation for making these "iana-" modules... This change is orthogonal to the update posted three days ago, which = focused on how to support server-generated keys, etc. No objections = have been received so far, and thus I'm beginning to think it's okay and = we can go into last call after the above discussion resolves. Kent // contributor > On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:52 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography > Authors : Kent Watsen > Wang Haiguang > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt > Pages : 56 > Date : 2019-06-20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings = useful > for cryptographic applications. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_533591F6-5930-4EDD-9A64-EAD44A15AF81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This = update converts the algorithms from being identities to = enumerations.

This = is suppose to be the result from the thread started on April 25 entitled = "The maintenance of the algorithm identifiers in = draft-ietf-crypto-types" but, actually, I think it's from an earlier = thread in which I believe Lada stated rationale for using enumerations = instead of identities (I can't find that thread right now).   = Seeing that the enum "values" are just in position-order, I'm unsure = what issue this change resolves, but it seems nicer that a server = doesn't have to *implement* the module, and also the values don't have = to be prefixed...

All said, I think that the maintainability issue remains. =  IIRC, Tom Petch suggestion breaking the algorithms into smaller = modules, that is, one module per what is now an "enumeration", and also = I think that there was a recommendation for making these "iana-" = modules...

This = change is orthogonal to the update posted three days ago, which focused = on how to support server-generated keys, etc.  No objections have = been received so far, and thus I'm beginning to think it's okay and we = can go into last call after the above discussion resolves.

Kent // = contributor


On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:52 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of = the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

=        Title =           : Common = YANG Data Types for Cryptography
=        Authors =         : Kent Watsen
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Wang Haiguang
Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt
Pages =           : 56
= Date =            : = 2019-06-20

Abstract:
=   This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the = groupings useful
  for cryptographic = applications.


The IETF = datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-type= s/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09<= br = class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto= -types-09

A diff from the previous version = is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-crypto-t= ypes-09


Please note that it = may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_533591F6-5930-4EDD-9A64-EAD44A15AF81-- From nobody Thu Jun 20 18:13:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F85120153 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:13:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h0eO0WFF21La for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E16E612004D for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 781F6B8217F; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:13:26 -0700 (PDT) To: andy@yumaworks.com, mbj@tail-f.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, kent+ietf@watsen.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190621011326.781F6B8217F@rfc-editor.org> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5756) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 01:13:50 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, "RESTCONF Protocol". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5756 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Kent Watsen Section: 8 Original Text ------------- module ietf-system { leaf system-reset { type empty; } } Corrected Text -------------- module ietf-system { leaf system-restart { type empty; } } Notes ----- The section on page 84 discusses the "system-restart" RPC from RFC 7317, but the conceptual example has "system-reset". Fix: s/system-reset/system-restart/. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) -------------------------------------- Title : RESTCONF Protocol Publication Date : January 2017 Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Configuration Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Fri Jun 21 07:42:03 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b7a7ca57b-bedf88a1-e867-4d0d-a44a-94964a93ccbb-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD5112027B for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 07:42:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VvtRRMkR4OHE for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 07:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D134120114 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 07:41:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561128117; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=fyXuFMKfYXEISRIZf52te0Qn719bxWrQZop55MYdTqQ=; b=HyF9CInF0klD6JFSzJyuDv05zrUhJySl21mL4wOQ08nwfEBwOTzPlHhQJlBM0x9z CC42edKtgSFO0OBdsZ0mx/p6ocXgHPVuVf9bm2MIK7UsXXmpKxxno5kawdGiNpzuWEY 034SQOtxxUEjZqKsmwmbJ87lhUyFeHuoJ+mNoeNE= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016b7a7ca57b-bedf88a1-e867-4d0d-a44a-94964a93ccbb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:41:57 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.21-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] restconf 'get' on non-presence container X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:42:01 -0000 Given: module foo { ... container widgets { <--- NOT a presence container list widget { ... } } } Assuming no widgets have been configured, would a GET on "/foo:widgets" return: 1) 200 with an empty response (i.e., 2) 404 (Not Found) 3) It's up to the implementation With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an ancestor of an NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, Section 7.5.7 (XML Encoding Rules) comes into play: If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. However, this question regards the GET being on the NP-container itself. That is, it's not an encoding question so much as a protocol question. RFC 8040 doesn't discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says: If a retrieval request for a data resource represents an instance that does not exist, then an error response containing a "404 Not Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server. Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or not? RFC 7950, Section 7.5.1 (Containers with Presence) says: ...the [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, existing only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the absence of the container node. Kent From nobody Fri Jun 21 14:24:45 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b7bed5571-8bf0b1c4-db4e-499a-8728-610ea56c54d9-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0D312008A for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pb4UDX6_l1qc for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CB07120019 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:24:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561152280; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=AxLVFZ4eEQxoSnjjUFfVO7teDMvYyi8HNa33aFAR56s=; b=MjfyyZi6FJcgxYjayY+WpYOXAoKuo/wRZEQ23rH6s+862EoDOfOxFFyzeotHi/XD V0/4t7OPumClaNf53Jyv4DTpMQ2Cq3sVrUXs1JlC9onw+BGP7mZnI+GLE51FAu05qkg Zz6TAC/yXtpW+tVN95wfVZJwC8ybuFT+af6pXnLE= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_66376AF2-E624-44CF-8FDB-62C26DDF4285" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:24:40 +0000 References: <0100016b7a7ca57b-bedf88a1-e867-4d0d-a44a-94964a93ccbb-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016b7a7ca57b-bedf88a1-e867-4d0d-a44a-94964a93ccbb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100016b7bed5571-8bf0b1c4-db4e-499a-8728-610ea56c54d9-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.21-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] restconf 'get' on non-presence container X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:24:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_66376AF2-E624-44CF-8FDB-62C26DDF4285 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reviewing the very long "What should a server response be?" thread from = 2016-07-11, it seems that the answer might be: 4) depends on client-usage history (i.e., sometimes 404 and sometimes 200 with an empty response). Specifically, it seems that servers proactively creating or removing = NP-containers is not desirable. PS: I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88 = . Kent // contributor > On Jun 21, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen = wrote: >=20 > Given: >=20 > module foo { > ... > container widgets { <--- NOT a presence container > list widget { > ... > } > } > } >=20 > Assuming no widgets have been configured, would a GET on = "/foo:widgets" > return: >=20 > 1) 200 with an empty response (i.e., > 2) 404 (Not Found) > 3) It's up to the implementation >=20 >=20 > With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an ancestor of an=20 > NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, Section 7.5.7 (XML > Encoding Rules) comes into play: >=20 > If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the > container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. >=20 > However, this question regards the GET being on the NP-container = itself. > That is, it's not an encoding question so much as a protocol question. > RFC 8040 doesn't discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says: >=20 > If a retrieval request for a data resource represents an instance > that does not exist, then an error response containing a "404 Not > Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server. >=20 > Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or not? RFC 7950, Section=20= > 7.5.1 (Containers with Presence) says: >=20 > ...the [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, existing > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the > container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the > absence of the container node. >=20 >=20 > Kent >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_66376AF2-E624-44CF-8FDB-62C26DDF4285 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Reviewing the very long "What should a server response be?" = thread from 2016-07-11, it seems that the answer might be:

    4) depends = on client-usage history (i.e., sometimes
  =       404 and sometimes 200 with an empty response).

Specifically, it seems that = servers proactively creating or removing NP-containers is not = desirable.

PS: = I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88.

Kent // = contributor




On Jun = 21, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

Given:

 module foo {
   ...
=    container widgets {   <--- NOT a presence = container
     list widget {
       ...
=      }
   }
 }

Assuming no widgets = have been configured, would a GET on "/foo:widgets"
return:

   1) = 200 with an empty response (i.e., <widgets xmlns=3D"..."/>
   2) 404 (Not Found)
=    3) It's up to the implementation


With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an = ancestor of an
NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, = Section 7.5.7 (XML
Encoding Rules) comes into play:

  If a non-presence container does = not have any child nodes, the
  container may = or may not be present in the XML encoding.

However, this question regards the GET being on the = NP-container itself.
That is, it's not an encoding = question so much as a protocol question.
RFC 8040 doesn't = discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says:

  If a retrieval request for a data resource = represents an instance
  that does not exist, = then an error response containing a "404 Not
=   Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server.

Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or = not?  RFC 7950, Section
7.5.1 (Containers with = Presence) says:

  ...the = [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, existing
  only to contain child nodes.  In = particular, the presence of the
  container = node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the
=   absence of the container node.


Kent

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_66376AF2-E624-44CF-8FDB-62C26DDF4285-- From nobody Sat Jun 22 16:18:54 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b817c39d7-61fd3ee0-e74b-436d-a50b-0f0f0212cdf4-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF75612004A for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:18:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YEyw9KERvIL9 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2771120047 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:18:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561245530; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=lKfQdN14HXtW0w2A3Qch6WorC+o7rgq7uQ6JSB3Xblw=; b=hEareO52ghj530FBJXTd+zSBzWT6gVcyLqy86POx1HUmc3yuMekkUxSztC9ywpVq tCpCqAFP9P6lfw6aM0Rr6jl3honbdx5kPUv6tIiX5RROFyCIUZ6hJ1M3yHvALzMYmrR MYDuUEsDgG6iucMImta387ToFcgN+GAxPX9Zkre4= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07606880-77DE-48A5-8687-BEF4952B81AF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 23:18:50 +0000 References: <0100016b7a7ca57b-bedf88a1-e867-4d0d-a44a-94964a93ccbb-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b7bed5571-8bf0b1c4-db4e-499a-8728-610ea56c54d9-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016b7bed5571-8bf0b1c4-db4e-499a-8728-610ea56c54d9-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100016b817c39d7-61fd3ee0-e74b-436d-a50b-0f0f0212cdf4-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.22-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] restconf 'get' on non-presence container X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 23:18:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07606880-77DE-48A5-8687-BEF4952B81AF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Applying the same "client-usage history" logic to POST leads to an = unfriendly result. Specifically, a POST should return 404 if the parent = NP-container (e.g., "/foo:widgets") doesn't exist, but a friendlier = implementation would silently create all the ancestor NP-containers. =20 Same applies to DELETE. 404 should be returned if the NP-container = ("/foo:widgets") doesn't exist, but a friendlier option would be to = always return 204. This view is further supported by RFC 8040 saying = "The resource must exist or the DELETE method will fail." Kent // contributor > On Jun 21, 2019, at 5:24 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > Reviewing the very long "What should a server response be?" thread = from 2016-07-11, it seems that the answer might be: >=20 > 4) depends on client-usage history (i.e., sometimes > 404 and sometimes 200 with an empty response). >=20 > Specifically, it seems that servers proactively creating or removing = NP-containers is not desirable. >=20 > PS: I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88 = . >=20 > Kent // contributor >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 21, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: >>=20 >> Given: >>=20 >> module foo { >> ... >> container widgets { <--- NOT a presence container >> list widget { >> ... >> } >> } >> } >>=20 >> Assuming no widgets have been configured, would a GET on = "/foo:widgets" >> return: >>=20 >> 1) 200 with an empty response (i.e., >> 2) 404 (Not Found) >> 3) It's up to the implementation >>=20 >>=20 >> With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an ancestor of an=20 >> NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, Section 7.5.7 (XML >> Encoding Rules) comes into play: >>=20 >> If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the >> container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. >>=20 >> However, this question regards the GET being on the NP-container = itself. >> That is, it's not an encoding question so much as a protocol = question. >> RFC 8040 doesn't discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says: >>=20 >> If a retrieval request for a data resource represents an instance >> that does not exist, then an error response containing a "404 Not >> Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server. >>=20 >> Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or not? RFC 7950, Section=20= >> 7.5.1 (Containers with Presence) says: >>=20 >> ...the [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, existing >> only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the >> container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to = the >> absence of the container node. >>=20 >>=20 >> Kent >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_07606880-77DE-48A5-8687-BEF4952B81AF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Applying the same = "client-usage history" logic to POST leads to an unfriendly result. =  Specifically, a POST should return 404 if the parent NP-container = (e.g., "/foo:widgets") doesn't exist, but a friendlier implementation = would silently create all the ancestor NP-containers.  

Same applies to DELETE. =  404 should be returned if the NP-container ("/foo:widgets") = doesn't exist, but a friendlier option would be to always return 204. =  This view is further supported by RFC 8040 saying "The resource = must exist or the DELETE method will fail."

Kent // contributor


On Jun 21, 2019, at 5:24 PM, = Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

Reviewing the very = long "What should a server response be?" thread from 2016-07-11, it = seems that the answer might be:

    4) depends on client-usage history (i.e., = sometimes
        404 and = sometimes 200 with an empty response).

Specifically, it seems that = servers proactively creating or removing NP-containers is not = desirable.

PS: = I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88.

Kent // = contributor




On Jun = 21, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

Given:

 module foo {
   ...
=    container widgets {   <--- NOT a presence = container
     list widget {
       ...
=      }
   }
 }

Assuming no widgets = have been configured, would a GET on "/foo:widgets"
return:

   1) = 200 with an empty response (i.e., <widgets xmlns=3D"..."/>
   2) 404 (Not Found)
=    3) It's up to the implementation


With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an = ancestor of an
NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, = Section 7.5.7 (XML
Encoding Rules) comes into play:

  If a non-presence container does = not have any child nodes, the
  container may = or may not be present in the XML encoding.

However, this question regards the GET being on the = NP-container itself.
That is, it's not an encoding = question so much as a protocol question.
RFC 8040 doesn't = discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says:

  If a retrieval request for a data resource = represents an instance
  that does not exist, = then an error response containing a "404 Not
=   Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server.

Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or = not?  RFC 7950, Section
7.5.1 (Containers with = Presence) says:

  ...the = [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, existing
  only to contain child nodes.  In = particular, the presence of the
  container = node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the
=   absence of the container node.


Kent

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_____________________________________________= __
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_07606880-77DE-48A5-8687-BEF4952B81AF-- From nobody Sun Jun 23 18:09:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B9D120090 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:08:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ej3meHDG_CkM for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E56512004A for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 72B56B80D5C; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT) To: andy@yumaworks.com, mbj@tail-f.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, kent+ietf@watsen.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: bill.wu@huawei.com, netconf@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190624010833.72B56B80D5C@rfc-editor.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:09:00 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, "RESTCONF Protocol". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Qin WU Section: 4.1.1 Original Text ------------- If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag value "resource-denied" is used in this case Corrected Text -------------- If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag value "data-exists" is used in this case Notes ----- The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this case based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241: error-tag: resource-denied error-type: transport, rpc, protocol, application error-severity: error error-info: none Description: Request could not be completed because of insufficient resources. It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be corresponding to the data resource already exists condition. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) -------------------------------------- Title : RESTCONF Protocol Publication Date : January 2017 Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Configuration Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Sun Jun 23 19:28:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB4C12008A for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:28:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YnbwyOHyh-4v for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client 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Hi Kent and all,<= /o:p>

Please see my comments= inline:

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netconf [mailt= o:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Watsen
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:<= /span> 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C220=C8=D5 23:44
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: netconf@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt

 

This update converts the algori= thms from being identities to enumerations.

 

This is suppose to be the resul= t from the thread started on April 25 entitled "The maintenance of the= algorithm identifiers in draft-ietf-crypto-types" but, actually, I th= ink it's from an earlier thread in which I believe Lada stated rationale for using enumerations instead of identities (I can'= t find that thread right now).   Seeing that the enum "values&quo= t; are just in position-order, I'm unsure what issue this change resolves, = but it seems nicer that a server doesn't have to *implement* the module, and also the values don't have to be prefixed...

[Frank]: FYI, the earl= ier thread discussing and proposing a good solution for currently using enu= merations instead of identities is: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/= i2nsf/CKUsox3ua9JitEb5pQMN8-Iogwg   (Thanks Lada, Mahesh, Juergen, Martin,= Andy, Acee, Paul Wouters and etc. for the productive discussion). The next= issue to be addressed is whether the enum =A1=B0values=A1=B1 can be in position-order, or should be the same as their respective IANA d= efined crypto algorithm numbers? For the latter case, which IANA should the= y be aligned: TLS, IPSec or SSH?

 

All said, I think that the main= tainability issue remains.  IIRC, Tom Petch suggestion breaking the al= gorithms into smaller modules, that is, one module per what is now an "= ;enumeration", and also I think that there was a recommendation for making these "iana-" modules...<= /span>

[Frank]: Should we def= ine the YANG modules for crypto types in yang IANA page?<= /p>

 

B.R.=

Frank

 

This change is orthogonal to th= e update posted three days ago, which focused on how to support server-gene= rated keys, etc.  No objections have been received so far, and thus I'= m beginning to think it's okay and we can go into last call after the above discussion resolves.

 

Kent // contributor<= /span>

 



On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:52 AM, <= a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"> internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

 


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

       Title     &nb= sp;     : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography<= br>        Authors     &= nbsp;   : Kent Watsen
            &nb= sp;            = Wang Haiguang
  Filename    &nb= sp;   : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt
  Pages     =       : 56
  Date     &= nbsp;      : 2019-06-20

Abstract:
  This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings = useful
  for cryptographic applications.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/
There are also htmlized versions available at:
= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-t= ypes-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types= -09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet= -drafts/

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 

--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F13E7AFCC6dggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Sun Jun 23 23:29:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF1E12011C for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:29:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ewadFf2lFRu1 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA2D12010D for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C244E1AE0351; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:29:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190624.082912.285760139261341805.mbj@tail-f.com> To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, kent+ietf@watsen.net, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190621011326.781F6B8217F@rfc-editor.org> References: <20190621011326.781F6B8217F@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5756) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:29:13 -0000 Hi, This is a clear typo; the errata should be accepted. /martin RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, > "RESTCONF Protocol". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5756 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Kent Watsen > > Section: 8 > > Original Text > ------------- > module ietf-system { > leaf system-reset { > type empty; > } > } > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > module ietf-system { > leaf system-restart { > type empty; > } > } > > > Notes > ----- > The section on page 84 discusses the "system-restart" RPC from RFC 7317, but the conceptual example has "system-reset". Fix: s/system-reset/system-restart/. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) > -------------------------------------- > Title : RESTCONF Protocol > Publication Date : January 2017 > Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Configuration > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > From nobody Mon Jun 24 01:32:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148A81200F4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:32:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dz8NzAK5arOG for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09753120048 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 9A36AF745EBE0A0DFCB0 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:31:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from sineml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.223.161.112) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:31:55 +0100 Received: from sineml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.223.161.112) by sineml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.223.161.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:31:54 +0800 Received: from sineml705-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.223.161.112]) by sineml705-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.223.161.112]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:31:54 +0800 From: Wang Haiguang To: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" , Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?W25ldGNvbmZdILTwuLQ6ICBJLUQgQWN0aW9uOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldGNv?= =?gb2312?Q?nf-crypto-types-09.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHVKjSKZu7zG8Ux/E63K3NXr9Ju4qaqeCXg Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:31:54 +0000 Message-ID: <12e28a734edc4df183eb8c64dd5f1bc3@huawei.com> References: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-SG, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.215.37.184] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_12e28a734edc4df183eb8c64dd5f1bc3huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEktRCBBY3Rpb246IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt?= =?gb2312?b?bmV0Y29uZi1jcnlwdG8tdHlwZXMtMDkudHh0?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:32:01 -0000 --_000_12e28a734edc4df183eb8c64dd5f1bc3huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhbSBhbHNvIGhhdmUgc2ltaWxhciBjb25jZXJuIGFzIEZyYW5rIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHZhbHVl cyBzaG91bGQgYmUgYXNzaWduZWQgYnkgSUFOQSBvciBqdXN0IHVzZSBwb3NpdGlvbiBvcmRlci4N Cg0KRnJvbSBhIGxvbmcgdGVybSB2aWV3LCBjb3VsZCB0aGUgSUFOQSBhc3NpZ25tZW50IGJlIGEg YmV0dGVyIGNob2ljZT8NCg0KUmVnYXJkcy4NCg0KSGFpZ3VhbmcNCg0KRnJvbTogbmV0Y29uZiBb bWFpbHRvOm5ldGNvbmYtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIFhpYWxpYW5nIChG cmFuaywgTmV0d29yayBTdGFuZGFyZCAmIFBhdGVudCBEZXB0KQ0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBKdW5l IDI0LCAyMDE5IDEwOjI4IEFNDQpUbzogS2VudCBXYXRzZW4gPGtlbnQraWV0ZkB3YXRzZW4ubmV0 Pg0KQ2M6IG5ldGNvbmZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFtuZXRjb25mXSC08Li0OiBJLUQgQWN0 aW9uOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldGNvbmYtY3J5cHRvLXR5cGVzLTA5LnR4dA0KDQpIaSBLZW50IGFu 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quoted-printable

I am also have similar concern as Fra= nk whether the values should be assigned by IANA or just use position order= .

 

From a long term view, could the IANA= assignment be a better choice?

 

Regards.

 

Haiguang

 

From: netconf [mailto:netconf-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 10:28 AM
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [netconf] =B4=F0=B8=B4: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netco= nf-crypto-types-09.txt

 

Hi Kent and all,

Please see my comments inline:

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB= : netconf [mailto:netconf-bounce= s@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Watsen
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C220=C8=D5 23:44
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: netconf@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt

 

This update converts the algorithms from being ident= ities to enumerations.

 

This is suppose to be the result from the thread sta= rted on April 25 entitled "The maintenance of the algorithm identifier= s in draft-ietf-crypto-types" but, actually, I think it's from an earl= ier thread in which I believe Lada stated rationale for using enumerations instead of identities (I can't find that thread rig= ht now).   Seeing that the enum "values" are just in positio= n-order, I'm unsure what issue this change resolves, but it seems nicer tha= t a server doesn't have to *implement* the module, and also the values don't have to be prefixed...

[Frank]: FYI, the earlier thread disc= ussing and proposing a good solution for currently using enumerations inste= ad of identities is: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2nsf/CKUsox3ua9JitEb= 5pQMN8-Iogwg   (Thanks Lada, Mahesh, Juergen, Martin, Andy, Acee, Paul Wout= ers and etc. for the productive discussion). The next issue to be addressed= is whether the enum =A1=B0values=A1=B1 can be in position-order, or should be the same as their respective IANA defined crypto algorithm nu= mbers? For the latter case, which IANA should they be aligned: TLS, IPSec o= r SSH?

 

All said, I think that the maintainability issue rem= ains.  IIRC, Tom Petch suggestion breaking the algorithms into smaller= modules, that is, one module per what is now an "enumeration", a= nd also I think that there was a recommendation for making these "iana-" modules...

[Frank]: Should we define the YANG mo= dules for crypto types in yang IANA page?

 

B.R.

Frank

 

This change is orthogonal to the update posted three= days ago, which focused on how to support server-generated keys, etc. &nbs= p;No objections have been received so far, and thus I'm beginning to think = it's okay and we can go into last call after the above discussion resolves.

 

Kent // contributor

 

 

On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:52 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

 


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

       Title     &nb= sp;     : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography<= br>        Authors     &= nbsp;   : Kent Watsen
            &nb= sp;            = Wang Haiguang
  Filename    &nb= sp;   : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt
  Pages     =       : 56
  Date     &= nbsp;      : 2019-06-20

Abstract:
  This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings = useful
  for cryptographic applications.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/
There are also htmlized versions available at:
= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-t= ypes-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types= -09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet= -drafts/

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
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--_000_12e28a734edc4df183eb8c64dd5f1bc3huaweicom_-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 02:42:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE4A120033 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:42:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.865 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.865 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xjhNydt0Sbx1 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from APC01-PU1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092254036.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.254.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68A7A120114 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:42:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=JDNhEDCTOd8WfL0Iu+/jiBDLvhE/4Yxa8jdqldA9TVA=; b=nTpQ2M7CMycKViByQn1T3zmvye3IZ9gsJB5KEZjL1/hcRSHd4RQ5nJCjhUZ/miQFGfi4HG1atRGWPaTLPUyHsCxy48DwOdFOExPhTMOfhfq6vzp5qapAOGMDpS5FhvPbyWaLA6uzv72odTc3lJROZivA97Ckx6vsup0Opq9Q9nSkHxjeSRz1wlZOSUcZKEyvEo8ztnammHJlWav9M2gBG7YQAKEFg5TNutt3TlrccTo9ooxaAHAKn3IWL8X9DHfPtMbb3mifwPVDex8XjTtIafmOf0rAz+T6m2U2Z5L2ozszKOL0pJJOfnxeQP1FOwTzeY10hVY/e2+bnKRwm1yIyA== Received: from PU1APC01FT013.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.252.59) by PU1APC01HT240.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.252.254) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.2008.13; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:42:30 +0000 Received: from HK0PR01MB2546.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.152.252.57) by PU1APC01FT013.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.252.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2008.13 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:42:30 +0000 Received: from HK0PR01MB2546.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::ac68:317e:3bd0:3601]) by HK0PR01MB2546.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::ac68:317e:3bd0:3601%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2008.007; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:42:30 +0000 From: li zongliang To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Is it legal to POST/PUT/PATCH list and leaf-list in RESTCONF? 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:42:34 -0000 --_000_HK0PR01MB254667FB593B03A7B114AB078AE00HK0PR01MB2546apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCkkgYXNrZWQgdGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIG9uIFN0YWNrT3ZlcmZsb3cgYW5kIGdvdCBubyBh bnN3ZXIuIE9uZSB0b2xkIG1lIHRoYXQgSSBzaG91bGQgYXNrIGluIHRoZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Qu DQpDYW4gYW55b25lIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0IHRoaXMgcG9zdCBodHRwczovL3N0YWNrb3ZlcmZs b3cuY29tL3F1ZXN0aW9ucy81NjE3NDQ5OC9pcy1pdC1sZWdhbC10by1wb3N0LXB1dC1wYXRjaC1s aXN0LWFuZC1sZWFmLWxpc3QtaW4tcmVzdGNvbmY/DQpbaHR0cHM6Ly9jZG4uc3N0YXRpYy5uZXQv U2l0ZXMvc3RhY2tvdmVyZmxvdy9pbWcvYXBwbGUtdG91Y2gtaWNvbkAyLnBuZz92PTczZDc5YTg5 YmRlZF08aHR0cHM6Ly9zdGFja292ZXJmbG93LmNvbS9xdWVzdGlvbnMvNTYxNzQ0OTgvaXMtaXQt bGVnYWwtdG8tcG9zdC1wdXQtcGF0Y2gtbGlzdC1hbmQtbGVhZi1saXN0LWluLXJlc3Rjb25mPg0K cmVzdCAtIElzIGl0IGxlZ2FsIHRvIFBPU1QvUFVUL1BBVENIIGxpc3QgYW5kIGxlYWYtbGlzdCBp biBSRVNUQ09ORj8gLSBTdGFjayBPdmVyZmxvdzxodHRwczovL3N0YWNrb3ZlcmZsb3cuY29tL3F1 ZXN0aW9ucy81NjE3NDQ5OC9pcy1pdC1sZWdhbC10by1wb3N0LXB1dC1wYXRjaC1saXN0LWFuZC1s ZWFmLWxpc3QtaW4tcmVzdGNvbmY+DQpUaGlzIGlzIGEgZm9sbG93LXVwIHF1ZXN0aW9uIG9mIHRo aXMgcG9zdC4gRnJvbSBAcHJlZGkncyBhbnN3ZXIgSSBrbm93IHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgbGVnYWwgdG8g R0VUIGEgVVJMIHdob3NlIHRhcmdldCByZXNvdXJjZSBpcyBhIGxpc3Qgb3IgbGVhZi1saXN0IGFu ZCBERUxFVEUgY2FuJ3QgdXNlIHN1Y2ggVVJMLiBUaGF0IGlzIHRvIHNheSwgZ2l2ZS4uLg0Kc3Rh Y2tvdmVyZmxvdy5jb20NCg0KDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg== --_000_HK0PR01MB254667FB593B03A7B114AB078AE00HK0PR01MB2546apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I asked the question on StackOverflow and got no answer. One told me that I= should ask in the mailing list.
3D""
This is a follow-up question of this post. From @predi's answer I know that= it is legal to GET a URL whose target resource is a list or leaf-list and = DELETE can't use such URL. That is to say, give...
stackoverflow.com



Thanks,
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kent, I don't think that is the same conclusion that I reached with that thread -= I'm not convinced that there was an agreed conclusion, different folks see= m to different opinions on this. I support you opening an issue on the YAN= G issue tracker to see if we more tightly specify this behaviour for client= s. My interpretation is that the current answer is (3), i.e. it up to the impl= ementation. I suspect that the answer may depend on how defaults are handled, and it ma= y also depend on which datastore the query is being made against. Thanks, Rob From: netconf On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: 21 June 2019 22:25 To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netconf] restconf 'get' on non-presence container Reviewing the very long "What should a server response be?" thread from 201= 6-07-11, it seems that the answer might be: 4) depends on client-usage history (i.e., sometimes 404 and sometimes 200 with an empty response). Specifically, it seems that servers proactively creating or removing NP-con= tainers is not desirable. PS: I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88. Kent // contributor On Jun 21, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: Given: module foo { ... container widgets { <--- NOT a presence container list widget { ... } } } Assuming no widgets have been configured, would a GET on "/foo:widgets" return: 1) 200 with an empty response (i.e., 2) 404 (Not Found) 3) It's up to the implementation With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an ancestor of an NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, Section 7.5.7 (XML Encoding Rules) comes into play: If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. However, this question regards the GET being on the NP-container itself. That is, it's not an encoding question so much as a protocol question. RFC 8040 doesn't discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says: If a retrieval request for a data resource represents an instance that does not exist, then an error response containing a "404 Not Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server. Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or not? RFC 7950, Section 7.5.1 (Containers with Presence) says: ...the [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, existing only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the absence of the container node. Kent _______________________________________________ netconf mailing list netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --_000_BYAPR11MB26314A5D2628766F97B4A1ADB5E00BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent,<= o:p>

&nbs= p;

I donR= 17;t think that is the same conclusion that I reached with that thread R= 11; I’m not convinced that there was an agreed conclusion, different = folks seem to different opinions on this.  I support you opening an issue on the YANG issue tracker to see if we more tightly speci= fy this behaviour for clients.

&nbs= p;

My interp= retation is that the current answer is (3), i.e. it up to the implementatio= n.

&nbs= p;

I suspect= that the answer may depend on how defaults are handled, and it may also de= pend on which datastore the query is being made against.<= /p>

&nbs= p;

Thanks, Rob

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
Sent: 21 June 2019 22:25
To: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] restconf 'get' on non-presence container=

 

Reviewing the very long "What should a server r= esponse be?" thread from 2016-07-11, it seems that the answer mig= ht be:

 

    4) depends on client-usage history (i.= e., sometimes

        404 and sometimes 200 wi= th an empty response).

 

Specifically, it seems that servers proactively=  creating or removing NP-containers is not desirable.

 

 

Kent // contributor

 

 

 



On Jun 21, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrot= e:

 

Given:

 module foo {
   ...
   container widgets {   <--- NOT a presence co= ntainer
     list widget {
       ...
     }
   }
 }

Assuming no widgets have been configured, would a GET on "/foo:widgets= "
return:

   1) 200 with an empty response (i.e., <widgets xmlns=3D= "..."/>
   2) 404 (Not Found)
   3) It's up to the implementation


With NETCONF, or RESTCONF when retrieving an ancestor of an
NP-container, it's clear that RFC 7950, Section 7.5.7 (XML
Encoding Rules) comes into play:

  If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the<= br>   container may or may not be present in the XML encoding.

However, this question regards the GET being on the NP-container itself. That is, it's not an encoding question so much as a protocol question.
RFC 8040 doesn't discuss this directly, but Section 4.3 (GET) says:

  If a retrieval request for a data resource represents an instan= ce
  that does not exist, then an error response containing a "= 404 Not
  Found" status-line MUST be returned by the server.

Okay, so it does the NP-container "exist" or not?  RFC 7950,= Section
7.5.1 (Containers with Presence) says:

  ...the [non-presence] container has no meaning of its own, exis= ting
  only to contain child nodes.  In particular, the presence = of the
  container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent t= o the
  absence of the container node.


Kent

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 

--_000_BYAPR11MB26314A5D2628766F97B4A1ADB5E00BYAPR11MB2631namp_-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 03:52:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE90120048 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:52:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wp0EAhFc79kc for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283E6120098 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14EBE1AE0351; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:52:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:52:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:52:55 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > This update converts the algorithms from being identities to > enumerations. > > This is suppose to be the result from the thread started on April 25 > entitled "The maintenance of the algorithm identifiers in > draft-ietf-crypto-types" I read that thread, but it doesn't discuss identities vs. enumerations at all. > but, actually, I think it's from an earlier > thread in which I believe Lada stated rationale for using enumerations > instead of identities (I can't find that thread right now). This is a pretty drastic change to this module, and it is based on a discussion that you think have taken place, but can't find? I think we need to first decide what these types are suppposed to be. The current design with a union seems to indicate that the type is either an alg registered by IANA or one of the enums (which then are not registered by IANA...??): typedef hash-algorithm-t { type union { type uint16; type enumeration { enum NONE { value 0; description "Hash algorithm is NULL."; } enum sha1 { ... } ... } } description "The uint16 filed shall be set by individual protocol families according to the hash algorithm value assigned by IANA. ..."; } There are several issues here: there is no reference to the IANA regsitry; enum NONE is questionable in configuration; the description seems to be copy-and-pasted ("protcol families"). I think that the only reason for using an enumeration instead of an identity is if we really want to lock down the possible values, which can be ok, e.g., if the values MUST be values in an IANA registry. > Seeing > that the enum "values" are just in position-order, I'm unsure what > issue this change resolves, but it seems nicer that a server doesn't > have to *implement* the module, and also the values don't have to be > prefixed... > > All said, I think that the maintainability issue remains. IIRC, Tom > Petch suggestion breaking the algorithms into smaller modules, that > is, one module per what is now an "enumeration", and also I think that > there was a recommendation for making these "iana-" modules... Yes, you probably want to make these modules reflect the IANA registries, compare with the iftype registry. > This change is orthogonal to the update posted three days ago, which > focused on how to support server-generated keys, etc. No objections > have been received so far, and thus I'm beginning to think it's okay > and we can go into last call after the above discussion resolves. I haven't checked this yet, but will do so now. /martin > > Kent // contributor > > > > On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:52 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : Common YANG Data Types for Cryptography > > Authors : Kent Watsen > > Wang Haiguang > > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt > > Pages : 56 > > Date : 2019-06-20 > > > > Abstract: > > This document defines YANG identities, typedefs, the groupings useful > > for cryptographic applications. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netconf mailing list > > netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Mon Jun 24 04:33:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961791200C4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:33:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:31:07 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: Martin Bjorklund , "kent+ietf@watsen.net" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt Thread-Index: AQHVJ3gWqvO+wlO2ckCVAWawaqasCaakKPCAgAX39YCAAI/DgA== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:31:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEktRCBBY3Rpb246IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt?= 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X19fX19fX18NCm5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpuZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCg== From nobody Mon Jun 24 05:11:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED2E12027E for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bQyl5GSOyQma for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C149112015F for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 75B771AE0351; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:11:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190624.141133.2212333006903943160.mbj@tail-f.com> To: frank.xialiang@huawei.com Cc: kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1u?= =?utf-8?q?etconf-crypto-types-09=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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Jun 2019 05:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vWGFq3P_nLwx for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85F01120048 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:32:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561379551; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=AGyAPWL8vpNoZ7cuwGi7D6Swt+dKPsnOJeIwJPrIUIw=; b=DOhwJT834zK4GRhIkTgCyStbojpx7Wvw/Kz8bdqnUe8zj1dV50Q/XStmg7gfrT/6 ifUcvyqhsgichI48u1ar6t0cKDiidjCNaI9aocS1IYxzE+RzhqSWQZzCwcUuwXXMlbU QODZzg7KT9S8EGzUjtrPsSre5kRwVclL/+Es+9sI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:32:31 +0000 Cc: netconf@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100016b89793716-6a0b76af-fcf5-47ae-b69c-b0f6c041092f-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <156104236883.3035.10764109194950999587@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Martin Bjorklund X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.24-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:32:34 -0000 =20 >> but, actually, I think it's from an earlier >> thread in which I believe Lada stated rationale for using enumerations >> instead of identities (I can't find that thread right now). >=20 > This is a pretty drastic change to this module, and it is based on a > discussion that you think have taken place, but can't find? That could=E2=80=99ve been worded differently, but note that: 1) This part of the module is being developed by my co-author. While I push= ed the button to publish it, he is more involved and tracking details.=20 2) I recall the thread occurring, but couldn=E2=80=99t find it in my local a= rchive (likely due to the Juniper switch out) and the online search function= is pretty weak. Kent // contributor=20= From nobody Mon Jun 24 05:47:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FAC120150 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:47:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lB4_Mb9JJIRq for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A57120098 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B9A11AE0351; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:47:42 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:47:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190624.144746.1937720280685615958.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b89793716-6a0b76af-fcf5-47ae-b69c-b0f6c041092f-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b89793716-6a0b76af-fcf5-47ae-b69c-b0f6c041092f-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; 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Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:58:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190624010833.72B56B80D5C@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20190624010833.72B56B80D5C@rfc-editor.org> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:58:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: RFC Errata System Cc: Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , Kent Watsen , Mahesh Jethanandani , Qin Wu , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f350c7058c115f67" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:59:01 -0000 --000000000000f350c7058c115f67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, The cited text is in 4.4.1 (there is no 4.1.1). I do not see any evidence that the WG intended to write the word "data-exists" but wrote "resource-denied" instead. Therefore this cannot be changed with an errata. Andy On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 6:08 PM RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, > "RESTCONF Protocol". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Qin WU > > Section: 4.1.1 > > Original Text > ------------- > If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail > and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag > value "resource-denied" is used in this case > > Corrected Text > -------------- > If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail > and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag > value "data-exists" is used in this case > > Notes > ----- > The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this case > based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241: > > error-tag: resource-denied > error-type: transport, rpc, protocol, application > error-severity: error > error-info: none > Description: Request could not be completed because of > insufficient resources. > > It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be corresponding > to the data resource already exists condition. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) > -------------------------------------- > Title : RESTCONF Protocol > Publication Date : January 2017 > Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Configuration > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > --000000000000f350c7058c115f67 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

The cited text is in 4.4= .1 (there is no 4.1.1).

I do not see any evidence = that the WG intended to write the word "data-exists" but
wrote "resource-denied" instead. Therefore this cannot be chang= ed with an errata.


Andy
<= br>

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 6:08 PM RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
The following errata re= port has been submitted for RFC8040,
"RESTCONF Protocol".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Qin WU <bill.wu@huawei.com>

Section: 4.1.1

Original Text
-------------
If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail
and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned.=C2=A0 The erro= r-tag
value "resource-denied" is used in this case

Corrected Text
--------------
If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail
and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned.=C2=A0 The erro= r-tag
value "data-exists" is used in this case

Notes
-----
The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this = case
based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-tag:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 resource-denied
=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-type:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0transport, rpc, protocol, appli= cation
=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-severity: error
=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-info:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0none
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Description:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Request could not be completed becau= se of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0insuff= icient resources.

It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be correspond= ing
to the data resource already exists condition.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, ple= ase
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party=C2=A0
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.

--------------------------------------
RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18)
--------------------------------------
Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: RESTCONF Prot= ocol
Publication Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : January 2017
Author(s)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: A. Bierman, M. Bjorklun= d, K. Watsen
Category=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Network Configurat= ion
Area=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Operations an= d Management
Stream=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : IETF
Verifying Party=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: IESG
--000000000000f350c7058c115f67-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 06:27:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8E112028B for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:27:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ojcdS3clYjOu for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3306A12010C for ; Mon, 24 Jun 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([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 21:27:38 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Andy Bierman , RFC Errata System CC: Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , "Kent Watsen" , Mahesh Jethanandani , Netconf Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) Thread-Index: AdUqkH9l9wzBT2yeTqKInHAuw/R2NQ== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:27:38 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49AB6EEnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:27:56 -0000 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netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:27:02 -0000 --00000000000098c47c058c129ac1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:27 AM Qin Wu wrote: > Thanks for the quick reply, can you clarify the reason behind? Thanks! > > > RFC 8040 specifies an error-tag to use. The claim that RFC 6241 specifies something else is no proof the WG intended to use that error-tag in RFC 8040. An errata means that implementations that conform to the RFC are wrong and need to be corrected. IMO the change being proposed is not a typo and there is no other text in RFC 8040 that contradicts the specified error-tag. A change of this technical significance that impacts conformance needs to g= o through the normal RFC publication/approval process. Andy -Qin > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com] > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97= =A5 20:59 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* RFC Errata System > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* Martin Bjorklund ; Kent Watsen ; > Ignas Bagdonas ; Warren Kumari ; > Kent Watsen ; Mahesh Jethanandani < > mjethanandani@gmail.com>; Qin Wu ; Netconf < > netconf@ietf.org> > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) > > > > Hi, > > > > The cited text is in 4.4.1 (there is no 4.1.1). > > > > I do not see any evidence that the WG intended to write the word > "data-exists" but > > wrote "resource-denied" instead. Therefore this cannot be changed with an > errata. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 6:08 PM RFC Errata System < > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote: > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, > "RESTCONF Protocol". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Qin WU > > Section: 4.1.1 > > Original Text > ------------- > If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail > and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag > value "resource-denied" is used in this case > > Corrected Text > -------------- > If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail > and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag > value "data-exists" is used in this case > > Notes > ----- > The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this case > based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241: > > error-tag: resource-denied > error-type: transport, rpc, protocol, application > error-severity: error > error-info: none > Description: Request could not be completed because of > insufficient resources. > > It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be corresponding > to the data resource already exists condition. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) > -------------------------------------- > Title : RESTCONF Protocol > Publication Date : January 2017 > Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Configuration > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > > --00000000000098c47c058c129ac1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:27 AM Qin W= u <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrot= e:

Thanks for the quick reply,= can you clarify the reason behind? Thanks!

=C2=A0



RFC 8040 specifies= an error-tag to use.
The claim that RFC 6241 specifies something= else is no proof the
WG intended to use that error-tag in RFC 80= 40.

An errata means that implementations that conf= orm to the RFC are wrong
and need to be corrected.=C2=A0 IMO the = change being proposed is not a typo and
there is no other text in= RFC 8040 that contradicts the specified error-tag.=C2=A0

A change of this technical significance that impacts conformance ne= eds to go
through the normal RFC publication/approval process.

Andy

<= /u>

-Qin

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Andy Bie= rman [mailto:andy@y= umaworks.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 20:59
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>; Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>; Ignas Bagdonas <= ;ibagdona@gmail.com= >; Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>; Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; Mahesh Je= thanandani <mjethanan= dani@gmail.com>; Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761)=

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

The cited text is in 4.4.1 (the= re is no 4.1.1).

=C2=A0

I do not see any evidence that = the WG intended to write the word "data-exists" but=

wrote "resource-denied&quo= t; instead. Therefore this cannot be changed with an errata.<= /span>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 6:08 PM= RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:

The following errata report has= been submitted for RFC8040,
"RESTCONF Protocol".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
htt= ps://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Qin WU <bill.wu@huawei.com>

Section: 4.1.1

Original Text
-------------
If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail
and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned.=C2=A0 The erro= r-tag
value "resource-denied" is used in this case

Corrected Text
--------------
If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail
and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned.=C2=A0 The erro= r-tag
value "data-exists" is used in this case

Notes
-----
The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this = case
based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-tag:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 resource-denied
=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-type:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0transport, rpc, protocol, appli= cation
=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-severity: error
=C2=A0 =C2=A0error-info:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0none
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Description:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Request could not be completed becau= se of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0insuff= icient resources.

It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be correspond= ing
to the data resource already exists condition.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, ple= ase
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party=C2=A0
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.

--------------------------------------
RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18)
--------------------------------------
Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: RESTCONF Prot= ocol
Publication Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : January 2017
Author(s)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: A. Bierman, M. Bjorklun= d, K. Watsen
Category=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Network Configurat= ion
Area=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Operations an= d Management
Stream=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : IETF
Verifying Party=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: IESG

--00000000000098c47c058c129ac1-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 07:40:26 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b89ee3b1d-3e294e08-2258-4a2d-b0f9-3d8ac149b1f0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2721202A7 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YGM3gvEhDpTc for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6012412018C for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:40:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561387219; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=W/LZi7M9IQ10ezakkQmdkohcu7IjtXWfD2id8l3j5mI=; b=HnaFHyjrBf6UZtMsanFpPHx5ibZSI7IvWSIPMl1kHQJsGl/l+tQR2UOpl/QB9Uop SQW0YIrXY8UAi8TzBm9UT/ym1TMM/ravkiaTTOoyJd4/THr1dbQ32/WJJnRK98MRSoN sdeFygATP7ShuKCnT4eRVhWrufXGf3QkUd7fKujY= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b89ee3b1d-3e294e08-2258-4a2d-b0f9-3d8ac149b1f0-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DCABB559-53C4-4496-90B1-2A0B4BCEA530" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:40:19 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Qin Wu , RFC Errata System , Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Andy Bierman References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.24-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:40:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DCABB559-53C4-4496-90B1-2A0B4BCEA530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The suggested fix is better. Too bad we didn't catch it during = publication. Changing it in an Errata isn't appropriate. Please file = an issue for RESTCONF-next here: = https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf-next/issues = . Kent > On Jun 24, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:27 AM Qin Wu > wrote: > Thanks for the quick reply, can you clarify the reason behind? Thanks! >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > RFC 8040 specifies an error-tag to use. > The claim that RFC 6241 specifies something else is no proof the > WG intended to use that error-tag in RFC 8040. >=20 > An errata means that implementations that conform to the RFC are wrong > and need to be corrected. IMO the change being proposed is not a typo = and > there is no other text in RFC 8040 that contradicts the specified = error-tag.=20 >=20 > A change of this technical significance that impacts conformance needs = to go > through the normal RFC publication/approval process. >=20 > Andy >=20 > -Qin >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com = ]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5= 20:59 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: RFC Errata System = > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Martin Bjorklund >; Kent Watsen >; Ignas Bagdonas >; Warren Kumari >; Kent Watsen >; Mahesh Jethanandani = >; Qin Wu = >; Netconf = > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > The cited text is in 4.4.1 (there is no 4.1.1). >=20 > =20 >=20 > I do not see any evidence that the WG intended to write the word = "data-exists" but >=20 > wrote "resource-denied" instead. Therefore this cannot be changed with = an errata. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Andy >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 6:08 PM RFC Errata System = > wrote: >=20 > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8040, > "RESTCONF Protocol". >=20 > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761 = >=20 > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Qin WU > >=20 > Section: 4.1.1 >=20 > Original Text > ------------- > If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail > and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag > value "resource-denied" is used in this case >=20 > Corrected Text > -------------- > If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail > and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned. The error-tag=20 > value "data-exists" is used in this case >=20 > Notes > ----- > The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this case=20= > based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241: >=20 > error-tag: resource-denied > error-type: transport, rpc, protocol, application > error-severity: error > error-info: none > Description: Request could not be completed because of > insufficient resources. >=20 > It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be corresponding=20= > to the data resource already exists condition. >=20 > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party =20 > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18) > -------------------------------------- > Title : RESTCONF Protocol > Publication Date : January 2017 > Author(s) : A. Bierman, M. Bjorklund, K. Watsen > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Configuration > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG >=20 --Apple-Mail=_DCABB559-53C4-4496-90B1-2A0B4BCEA530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 The = suggested fix is better.  Too bad we didn't catch it during = publication.  Changing it in an Errata isn't appropriate. =  Please file an issue for RESTCONF-next here: https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf-next/issues.

Kent



On Jun 24, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Andy Bierman = <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:27 AM Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply, can you clarify the reason = behind? Thanks!

 



RFC 8040 specifies an error-tag to use.
The claim that RFC 6241 specifies something else is no proof = the
WG intended to use that error-tag in RFC = 8040.

An = errata means that implementations that conform to the RFC are = wrong
and need to be corrected.  IMO the = change being proposed is not a typo and
there is no = other text in RFC 8040 that contradicts the specified = error-tag. 

A change of this technical significance that impacts = conformance needs to go
through the normal RFC = publication/approval process.

Andy

-Qin

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 20:59
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: RFC Errata = System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Martin Bjorklund = <mbj@tail-f.com>; Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>; Ignas Bagdonas <ibagdona@gmail.com>; Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>; Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>; Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Technical = Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761)

 

Hi,

 

The= cited text is in 4.4.1 (there is no 4.1.1).

 

I = do not see any evidence that the WG intended to write the word = "data-exists" but

wrote "resource-denied" instead. Therefore this cannot be = changed with an errata.

 

 

Andy

 

 

On = Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 6:08 PM RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:

The following errata = report has been submitted for RFC8040,
"RESTCONF Protocol".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5761

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Qin WU <bill.wu@huawei.com>

Section: 4.1.1

Original Text
-------------
If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail
and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned.  The = error-tag
value "resource-denied" is used in this case

Corrected Text
--------------
If the data resource already exists, then the POST request MUST fail
and a "409 Conflict" status-line MUST be returned.  The error-tag =
value "data-exists" is used in this case

Notes
-----
The error-tag value should be corrected as "data-exists" in this case =
based on the context. According to error-tag definition in RFC6241:

   error-tag:      resource-denied
=    error-type:     transport, rpc, protocol, = application
   error-severity: error
   error-info:     none
   Description:    Request could not be completed = because of
                  =  insufficient resources.

It is apparent error-tag value "data-exists" should be corresponding
to the data resource already exists condition.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
= rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party 
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.

--------------------------------------
RFC8040 (draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-18)
--------------------------------------
Title               : RESTCONF = Protocol
Publication Date    : January 2017
Author(s)           : A. Bierman, M. = Bjorklund, K. Watsen
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Network = Configuration
Area                : Operations = and Management
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


= --Apple-Mail=_DCABB559-53C4-4496-90B1-2A0B4BCEA530-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 17:45:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606211201EC for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:45:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mYJUn4d9C2Hd for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:44:53 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "kent+ietf@watsen.net" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0Y29uZl0gSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRj?= =?utf-8?Q?onf-crypto-types-09.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHVJ3gWqvO+wlO2ckCVAWawaqasCaakKPCAgAX39YCAAI/DgP//hjiAgAFVW7A= Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:44:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100016b758f31cd-97380f81-31bc-4eab-9bc0-af15545c47ab-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190624.125253.527087934681043155.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190624.141133.2212333006903943160.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20190624.141133.2212333006903943160.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: 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RFC Errata System , Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) Thread-Index: AdUq8piEtza0jugIQHa7ozwMYohErw== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49ABD63nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8040 (5761) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:13:09 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49ABD63nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46648120118 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:45:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HoIzO31WwRQ2 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7741200E9 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DEEA01AE02F0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:45:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:45:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190625.084508.905200182299290020.mbj@tail-f.com> To: frank.xialiang@huawei.com Cc: kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20190624.141133.2212333006903943160.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICBJLUQgQWN0aW9uOiBkcmFm?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:45:09 -0000 SGksDQoNCg0KIlhpYWxpYW5nIChGcmFuaywgTmV0d29yayBTdGFuZGFyZCAmIFBhdGVudCBEZXB0 KSIgPGZyYW5rLnhpYWxpYW5nQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBIaSBNYXJ0aW4sDQo+IFRo 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PiA+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+ID4g PiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXw0KPiA+IG5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gbmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0Y29uZg0K From nobody Tue Jun 25 00:59:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5277120236 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aV4gBAYaa5zp for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 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Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zhou-netconf-multi-stream-originators-05.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:59:26 -0000 SGkgV0csDQoNCkkganVzdCBwb3N0ZWQgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZSBvbiB0aGUgbXVsdGktc3RyZWFtLW9y aWdpbmF0b3JzIGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KUGxlYXNlIHJldmlldyBhbmQgY29tbWVudC4NCkFueSBzdWdn ZXN0aW9uIGlzIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkLg0KDQpNYW55IHBlb3BsZSBzaG93IGludGVyZXN0IGFib3V0 IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuIEFuZCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc2V2ZXJhbCBjb21tZW50cyBmcm9tIHRoZSAxMDQg bWVldGluZy4NCjEuIEl0J3Mgc3RpbGwgdG8gYmUgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGlmIHRoZSBJb1QgdXNlIGNh c2UgaXMgc3VpdGFibGUuIEluIG15IG9waW5pb24sIHRoaXMgdXNlIGNhc2Ugb25seSBtZWFudCB0 byBzaG93IHRoYXQgdGhlIHN1Yi9wdWIgY2FuIHVzZSB0aGUgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHByb3Bvc2VkIGlu IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuIFRoZSBhZ2VudCBkaXNjb3ZlcnkgYW5kIG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgaXMgb3V0IG9m 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aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYu b3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Jun 25 09:20:26 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b8f701d10-02dff612-5c5f-4ed3-938d-8b9f25679996-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1AB1207A6 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:20:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IbWbIZpVMVzy for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 655F31207A5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:20:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561479617; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=u5/Uws38099AqkaQ8W0VpGMOwmQ5xHSvDIbQIXsWpgA=; b=MUo5YfDXTvK7aIvEQQMG3oZfLE6Tf3iy0Bo0Duxyqhv8r7pZGfBaw3uZmsV9ytqi I00AgV1K8UByHbDdJPypdg0X9KTlHmO9BBaT868scHTB7t8HNO3tIu1yDA9m9SyLDG4 EylkBXxyBolCoTHSuCjUhARlNaDGLRYO39uM+4to= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b8f701d10-02dff612-5c5f-4ed3-938d-8b9f25679996-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AF60F449-15F1-42F5-8F5A-BDC45CC62200" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:20:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190625.084508.905200182299290020.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: frank.xialiang@huawei.com, "netconf@ietf.org" To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20190624.141133.2212333006903943160.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190625.084508.905200182299290020.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.25-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:20:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AF60F449-15F1-42F5-8F5A-BDC45CC62200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > So, to start with, for each of the types in the crypto module, could > you specify the link to the corresponding IANA registry? Yes, please send out the links so we have more clue... To take a step back, my perception for how we got here is thus: 1) the keystore draft wishes to store keys (perhaps created at the time = of manufacturing) that can subsequently be referenced by downstream = models, such as in the SSH and TLS client/server drafts. 2) to support this goal, the crypto-types draft defined some types for = keys (first as identities, now as enumerations). 3) crypto savvy folks wanted to embrace and extend the definitions in = crypto-types to be more complete (i.e., more then just keys) 4) to enable the SSH and TLS models to use types defined in their = protocol specs, mapping tables were added to those drafts to map the = protocol-specific types to the generic crypto-types type. 5) the IPsec folks now have a similar problem, to which the answer might = be to do the same as the SSH and TLS drafts (i.e., define mappings from = IPSec-specific types to crypto-types types) 6) the general underlying issue is likely exasperated by the = crypto-types draft defining more types than needed for just keys (i.e., = the more it tries to support, the more mapping tables are needed), = albeit this in itself seems like a good thing. 7) it's unclear to me where the root cause of the problem lies. It = seems that the crypto folks may have instigated this long ago, by = creating overlapping definitions for identical algorithms, which then = manifested in the form of multiple IANA registries. 8) our efforts to normalize this may be futile, and yet we want to = support keystore. Please correct any misstatements, as I'm speculating on some of the = above. Thinking out of the box, if we were to fold on crypto-types defining = algorithms, perhaps keystore could store instances of something like an = abstract base class that is subclassed by downstream modules (ssh, tls, = ipsec). The problem with this approach is that the keys become = purpose-specific and so, e.g., if a device has a manufacturer-generated = key, that key could only be used for the single purpose (e.g., TLS) and = not for any other purpose (e.g., SSH, IPSec, etc.). Sure, the vendor = could create key multiple purpose-specific "keys" for the same = underlying key store in hardware, but it would ultimately fail to = support any purpose, potentially defined later in time. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_AF60F449-15F1-42F5-8F5A-BDC45CC62200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

So, to start with, for each = of the types in the crypto module, could
you specify the = link to the corresponding IANA registry?

Yes, please send out the links so we have = more clue...



To take a = step back, my perception for how we got here is thus:

1) the keystore draft = wishes to store keys (perhaps created at the time of manufacturing) that = can subsequently be referenced by downstream models, such as in the SSH = and TLS client/server drafts.

2) to support this goal, the = crypto-types draft defined some types for keys (first as identities, now = as enumerations).

3) crypto savvy folks wanted to embrace and extend the = definitions in crypto-types to be more complete (i.e., more then just = keys)

4) to = enable the SSH and TLS models to use types defined in their protocol = specs, mapping tables were added to those drafts to map the = protocol-specific types to the generic crypto-types type.

5) the IPsec folks = now have a similar problem, to which the answer might be to do the same = as the SSH and TLS drafts (i.e., define mappings from IPSec-specific = types to crypto-types types)

6) the general underlying issue is = likely exasperated by the crypto-types draft defining more types than = needed for just keys (i.e., the more it tries to support, the more = mapping tables are needed), albeit this in itself seems like a good = thing.

7) it's = unclear to me where the root cause of the problem lies.  It seems = that the crypto folks may have instigated this long ago, by creating = overlapping definitions for identical algorithms, which then manifested = in the form of multiple IANA registries.

8) our efforts to normalize this may be = futile, and yet we want to support keystore.

Please correct any misstatements, as = I'm speculating on some of the above.

Thinking out of the box, if we were to = fold on crypto-types defining algorithms, perhaps keystore could store = instances of something like an abstract base class that is subclassed by = downstream modules (ssh, tls, ipsec).  The problem with this = approach is that the keys become purpose-specific and so, e.g., if a = device has a manufacturer-generated key, that key could only be used for = the single purpose (e.g., TLS) and not for any other purpose (e.g., SSH, = IPSec, etc.).  Sure, the vendor could create key multiple = purpose-specific "keys" for the same underlying key store in hardware, = but it would ultimately fail to support any purpose, potentially defined = later in time.

Kent // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_AF60F449-15F1-42F5-8F5A-BDC45CC62200-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 11:03:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27478120AC9 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9jMDwTDg_Yj6 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E263120AA4 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id z19so312354pgl.12 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=t2ylB2RjCjG9MdnrSzfKCCgt20nBwJWbTT0W92Zb0KQ=; b=eg0M0bkVI9/ahQ2xQ6hYtZFU1+Lw7WTYMm54ytQsQ2dShjuLp01BXLXFRG2b2rd4O/ CG1XI7JXFHVLypp8zY5odoySS4Opzi5a/2v6iKL0IZOXIf/zPU12h0hXP51jUuTcL7jL eIGuyv7cvmaCQuOpzzr631nzIJ5eIRMyDnNXeIJZ/KoQyDN2hj3cSLBPfiVO7UVD3SaI 6HHu/4VI3x3Z3ovQuish/0TTMYcVloHRi/qj3UnjqRDpPQZuRWeVQcFEQFeFXlV5WzKq uChGMAdjL6aXaJIgcO8Im1PJ2UfhRHbozq6oXgqCZJdk/Bs0iSUYF7UdztqM3fQ1fZvw tlTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=t2ylB2RjCjG9MdnrSzfKCCgt20nBwJWbTT0W92Zb0KQ=; b=NF64ysLUNtls/xhkQZZ2IrVO6NzbvjfujsAvobRchynUG3GvW8R2e6XcVZ7a1LKoyz Q3o7P/HnBdVb7UUPtn7uYRZFoK05+/2zEqiTIRb2ckvN50p8I1BuDNy5n9i1zriXQxXS k7Sgp5ljq1Fqpw6yeg2kEBMJ4EJoVQS/Bau/2pqBtQ/e0nZs53JIDnuNj2p3E/uFKr2X dIYe3NcUboo9FZHAMjRjP3IRKIkVoHICkreS4tSow+HwdL4FTAF6GRrBG2yAC6T4i2y7 8Uj/rO5whGHdRFFxmkGCKQKPx4OR3PA3ROuOVDAS6oQkzLOC2JzfHLX6Xzqo7klR9j4y Ttsw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXYuXlVWl4J1CcrGGZ2VDUU9YPVdzSesyMJaAMmtEwy7p8D2/cC cuhIv2KJmvNuc3a6SYB/C8X1IiJy X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwhW5XBPJAG/3iuoL1j3k5QeFcN/ewH5Q0nmqOeqmUmDq31aVMhc5lrd2p+Mcx9Tt1b7i4JAA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:fb17:: with SMTP id o23mr39848076pgh.362.1561485769114; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.123.154] ([66.170.99.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c69sm3153732pje.6.2019.06.25.11.02.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5453861D-C2A1-4B7C-A147-3E4C189259E9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:02:47 -0700 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3204AB2C-3B67-419A-851E-9BA8BEB2273A@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:03:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5453861D-C2A1-4B7C-A147-3E4C189259E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Summarizing the list of changes that we seem to have agreed upon: For the first set of changes in section 7.8 and 7.9, we seem to agree on = the original set of changes I had sent out earlier, which essentially = deferred the discussion of confirmed commit to section 8.4 of the RFC. = The second set of changes updates Section 8.4.1 to explain what happens = to a confirmed commit that includes a element. The highlights in the sections should enable identifying the changes. CHANGE 1 START OLD (as in original RFC 6241) 7.8 . Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a request will be ignored. Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an is sent that includes an element. Negative Response: An element is included in the if the request cannot be completed for any reason. Example: NEW 7.8 . Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a request will be ignored. For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=20 request while processing a confirmed commit, please refer to Section 8.4 = . Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an is sent that includes an element. Negative Response: An element is included in the if the request cannot be completed for any reason. Example: OLD (as in original RFC 6241). 7.9 . Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, release any locks and resources associated with the session, and close any associated connections. If a NETCONF server receives a request while processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 = ), it MUST restore the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. Otherwise, the operation does not roll back configuration or other device state modifications made by the entity holding the lock. Parameters: session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, an "invalid-value" error is returned. Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an is sent that includes an element. Negative Response: An element is included in the if the request cannot be completed for any reason. Example: 4 NEW 7.9 . Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, release any locks and resources associated with the session, and close any associated connections. For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a=20 request while processing a confirmed commit, please refer to Section 8.4 = . Otherwise, the operation does not roll back configuration or other device state modifications made by the entity holding the lock. Parameters: session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, an "invalid-value" error is returned. Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an is sent that includes an element. Negative Response: An element is included in the if the request cannot be completed for any reason. Example: 4 CHANGE 1 END CHANGE 2 START The following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified. OLD: If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. NEW: If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit=20= also included a element, in which case the server MAY = continue the confirmed commit procedure. CHANGE 2 END Finally, looking at the current set of Errata that are already open = against the RFC, we (the chairs) believe that Errata number 5397 should = be deleted and (a new Errata with these contents) be posted. This is = being done to avoid stacking one Errata on top of another. Unless there is objection to these changes within the next two weeks, we = will proceed with submitting them to the RFC Editor. > On Jun 12, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > This is the new text in question: > It appears your intent is (c) since there is no mention at all what = happens if > was included. The text just says what does not happen in = this case. >=20 >>>=20 >>> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >>> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >>> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed = commit=20 >>> also included a element. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> How about adding at the end: >>=20 >> OLD: >>=20 >> element. >>=20 >> NEW: >>=20 >> element, in which case the server MAY continue the confirmed commit = procedure. >>=20 >>=20 >> Andy >> =20 >=20 > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen > wrote: >=20 > Hi Andy, >=20 >> I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to = enforce protocol behavior >> that the original RFC does not actually specify. (c) is correct for = an Errata because the original RFC >> is under-specified. Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots >=20 > It sounds like we're in agreement. Are you objecting to something I = wrote in particular? >=20 > Kent // contributor >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_5453861D-C2A1-4B7C-A147-3E4C189259E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Summarizing the list of changes that we seem to have agreed = upon:

For the first = set of changes in section 7.8 and 7.9, we seem to agree on the original = set of changes I had sent out earlier, which essentially deferred the = discussion of confirmed commit to section 8.4 of the RFC. The second set = of changes updates Section 8.4.1 to explain what happens to a confirmed = commit that includes a <persist> element.

The highlights in the sections should = enable identifying the changes.

CHANGE 1 START

OLD (as in original RFC 6241)

7.8.  = <close-session>

   Description:  = Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

      When a = NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, it = will
      gracefully = close the session.  The server will release any = locks
      and resources = associated with the session and gracefully close any
  =     associated connections.  Any NETCONF requests = received after a
      = <close-session> request will be ignored.

   Positive = Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
      = <rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   Negative Response:  An <rpc-error> = element is included in the
      = <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.

   Example:

     <rpc = message-id=3D"101"
          = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       = <close-session/>
     = </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
          = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
     = </rpc-reply>

NEW

7.8.  = <close-session>

   Description:  = Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

      When a = NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, it = will
      gracefully = close the session.  The server will release any = locks
      and resources = associated with the session and gracefully close any
  =     associated connections.  Any NETCONF requests = received after a
      = <close-session> request will be ignored.

      For details on what happens if a = NETCONF server receives a 
      <close-session> request while = processing a confirmed commit,
      please refer to Section 8.4.

   Positive = Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
      = <rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   Negative Response:  An <rpc-error> = element is included in the
      = <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.

   Example:

     <rpc = message-id=3D"101"
          = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       = <close-session/>
     = </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
          = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
     = </rpc-reply>

OLD (as in original RFC 6241).

7.9.  = <kill-session>

   Description:  = Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

      When a = NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for = an
      open session, = it will abort any operations currently in process,
  =     release any locks and resources associated with the = session, and
      close any = associated connections.

      If a NETCONF = server receives a <kill-session> request while
  =     processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4), it MUST restore the
  =     configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was = issued.

  =     Otherwise, the <kill-session> operation does not = roll back
      configuration = or other device state modifications made by the
  =     entity holding the lock.

   = Parameters:

      = session-id:  Session identifier of the NETCONF session to = be
         = terminated.  If this value is equal to the current session = ID,
         = an "invalid-value" error is returned.

   Positive = Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
      = <rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   Negative Response:  An <rpc-error> = element is included in the
      = <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.


   = Example:

     <rpc message-id=3D"101"
  =         = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <kill-session>
         = <session-id>4</session-id>
     =   </kill-session>
     = </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
          = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
     = </rpc-reply>

NEW

7.9.  = <kill-session>

   Description:  = Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

      When a = NETCONF entity receives a <kill-session> request for = an
      open session, = it will abort any operations currently in process,
  =     release any locks and resources associated with the = session, and
      close any = associated connections.

    =   For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives = a 
      = <kill-session> request while processing a confirmed = commit,
      please refer = to Section 8.4.

      Otherwise, = the <kill-session> operation does not roll back
  =     configuration or other device state modifications made by = the
      entity = holding the lock.

   = Parameters:

      = session-id:  Session identifier of the NETCONF session to = be
         = terminated.  If this value is equal to the current session = ID,
         = an "invalid-value" error is returned.

   Positive = Response:  If the device was able to satisfy the request, = an
      = <rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> = element.

   Negative Response:  An <rpc-error> = element is included in the
      = <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed for any = reason.


   = Example:

     <rpc message-id=3D"101"
  =         = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <kill-session>
         = <session-id>4</session-id>
     =   </kill-session>
     = </rpc>

     <rpc-reply = message-id=3D"101"
          = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
       <ok/>
     = </rpc-reply>

CHANGE 1 = END

CHANGE 2 START
The following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be = modified.

OLD:

   If the device reboots for any reason before the = confirm timeout
   expires, the server = MUST restore the configuration to its state
   before the = confirmed commit was issued.


NEW:

   If the device reboots for any reason before the = confirm timeout
   expires, the server = MUST restore the configuration to its state
   before the = confirmed commit was issued, unless = the confirmed commit 
   also included a <persist> element, in which = case the server MAY continue
  =  the confirmed commit = procedure.

CHANGE 2 END

Finally, looking at the current = set of Errata that are already open against the RFC, we (the chairs) = believe that Errata number 5397 should be deleted and (a new Errata with = these contents) be posted. This is being done to avoid stacking one = Errata on top of another.

Unless there is objection to these changes = within the next two weeks, we will proceed with submitting them to the = RFC Editor.

On Jun 12, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Andy Bierman = <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

Hi,

This = is the new text in question:
It appears your intent = is (c) since there is no mention at all what happens if
<persist> was included.  The text just says what = does not happen in this case.


   If the device reboots for any reason before = the confirm timeout
   expires, the server MUST restore the = configuration to its state
   before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit 
   also included a <persist> = element.


How about adding at the = end:

OLD:

element.

NEW:

element, in which case the server MAY continue the confirmed = commit procedure.


Andy
 

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

Hi = Andy,

I object to changing RFC 6241 with = an Errata if it attempts to enforce protocol behavior
that the original RFC does not actually specify.  (c) is = correct for an Errata because the original RFC
is = under-specified.  Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span = reboots

It sounds like we're in = agreement.  Are you objecting to something I wrote in = particular?

Kent // = contributor



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_5453861D-C2A1-4B7C-A147-3E4C189259E9-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 13:42:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81B112029B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:42:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aGQLy6BE8QjZ for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260461200FF for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE5541AE02F0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190625.224243.332607515244909664.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: frank.xialiang@huawei.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b8f701d10-02dff612-5c5f-4ed3-938d-8b9f25679996-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20190625.084508.905200182299290020.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b8f701d10-02dff612-5c5f-4ed3-938d-8b9f25679996-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:42:49 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > So, to start with, for each of the types in the crypto module, could > > you specify the link to the corresponding IANA registry? > > Yes, please send out the links so we have more clue... > > > > To take a step back, my perception for how we got here is thus: > > 1) the keystore draft wishes to store keys (perhaps created at the > time of manufacturing) that can subsequently be referenced by > downstream models, such as in the SSH and TLS client/server drafts. > > 2) to support this goal, the crypto-types draft defined some types for > keys (first as identities, now as enumerations). > > 3) crypto savvy folks wanted to embrace and extend the definitions in > crypto-types to be more complete (i.e., more then just keys) > > 4) to enable the SSH and TLS models to use types defined in their > protocol specs, mapping tables were added to those drafts to map the > protocol-specific types to the generic crypto-types type. So perhaps this is not the best solution? The big set of types (in crypto-types) will change over time, and the subsets used in various applications will also change over time. The best solution for such sets in the IETF seems to be IANA registries, with corresponding IANA-maintained YANG modules. > 5) the IPsec folks now have a similar problem, to which the answer > might be to do the same as the SSH and TLS drafts (i.e., define > mappings from IPSec-specific types to crypto-types types) > > 6) the general underlying issue is likely exasperated by the > crypto-types draft defining more types than needed for just keys > (i.e., the more it tries to support, the more mapping tables are > needed), albeit this in itself seems like a good thing. > > 7) it's unclear to me where the root cause of the problem lies. It > seems that the crypto folks may have instigated this long ago, by > creating overlapping definitions for identical algorithms, which then > manifested in the form of multiple IANA registries. > > 8) our efforts to normalize this may be futile, and yet we want to > support keystore. Perhaps we can take a step back and define just the types we need right now for keystore, in order to finish these drafts. Then we (or some other WG) can immediately start to work on an update to crypto-types that would define more types for other purposes as well. /martin > Please correct any misstatements, as I'm speculating on some of the > above. > > Thinking out of the box, if we were to fold on crypto-types defining > algorithms, perhaps keystore could store instances of something like > an abstract base class that is subclassed by downstream modules (ssh, > tls, ipsec). The problem with this approach is that the keys become > purpose-specific and so, e.g., if a device has a > manufacturer-generated key, that key could only be used for the single > purpose (e.g., TLS) and not for any other purpose (e.g., SSH, IPSec, > etc.). Sure, the vendor could create key multiple purpose-specific > "keys" for the same underlying key store in hardware, but it would > ultimately fail to support any purpose, potentially defined later in > time. > > Kent // contributor > From nobody Tue Jun 25 15:57:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEEB1200B5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ib1ngRP92KZo for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2C8112002E for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id b11so178538lfa.5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:57:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yLABkphDILmuS2hqMl4E0cp2XwV0DBF1WGekpCna43w=; b=l033yN6qUgpJnoV6LXagHCnNZqvzH2tsFd9FFBSOsoweI64fVqXu3WtmcIpIyoVhRV bLH+V/DTg67Vf7draKyyYSwq8yHXwyJ8TuqwmmNlTAycji6FJqza1zzFfK9e/chi8Bo/ SgepZngs2IrDbZz8P2YXMvZ60bZwcBwOF+mRPxCdKSseLpI2F7HpXEzJ2V/qTFHAPcB4 2zTCxf+o+0WoGmU2/N7hN+6e1jjq/y0vI3E5xL2wK4R/HTFFLRIlN9O5tWK+Kgl4kWyd TR+7jqhlXAC1Te39P8E7T5TQSo662YixovtDcWC1tc2+Xzyi6+Bun8VSV4iz59D12Q8N HQvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yLABkphDILmuS2hqMl4E0cp2XwV0DBF1WGekpCna43w=; b=ifCnfC1IhnEX+iZWu6xPzsYX2A1pGwrDWdBu6liKSD5d52UfXR4pV13dNaC/zqC6Ev sJcDptcRevnoz+jWQiW10ngQtBAsYvQPFOWSDmXFv7qZQ6q/Or1D3HtyNEbW98XLkKav XiYkbKuQJazQd9WgcLcVsbevhwy4rmFVGEArbZUaK/c/hvsgbq8PNngdqPGadn/LB0J7 lcUo8XiaLgXUKWhk1q39Ab1fpLzYjDtTkYTaf+63vnartw1J3nF0CJKGc253vFezU4yq 2wCk4+90yspNNwiFZSu4Os8Md8PVX8dhlSDHvwvYolx/IgHWThf1+pjkfVMQQIBpZYf4 IczQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWqBuTMRaS55HVBSe4nev1FbxZQJxONtjvLMMcvkIZuwdOVfdJY 0r06yU4unCjrL/aaiAdvsedQ9Y/dy8NiN2DjwJCx1Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzj6vzJb3cpCMTEBSHnDQzhpS+eXThKt0k1M+i8aclW9RT3czq+tTQOC4yG9LOJNngoH9ipMxCSbmtjOJgnA74= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:514b:: with SMTP id q11mr662080lfd.33.1561503429894; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:57:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100016aa75956af-70018fb1-15f8-4394-8ffd-4f4d5b2d7b3f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016ab7a9af7e-cd7f776e-79e1-42a4-9c5d-d04aed0d8fa1-000000@email.amazonses.com> <76ED75C8-AA1A-4A03-A382-0DE834C914A1@gmail.com> <0100016abd77bfe3-88ae515a-d7f9-41c7-b627-9c51bdf16213-000000@email.amazonses.com> <884391D0-3F53-4F3D-BFB0-DD333D09507C@gmail.com> <00d101d51216$f807d120$e8177360$@hansfords.net> <3B2E5975-26B3-4310-B718-9D8D3F0B0DDA@gmail.com> <0100016b482fc5f4-caf4b52b-416a-438f-9c47-68df526fb9b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4bc86abb-d69f575f-c2e7-4ce9-93a5-047262cbff75-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b4d55fbaf-7f6ae36b-0a00-4b10-a6c0-22fd0401a5e2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <3204AB2C-3B67-419A-851E-9BA8BEB2273A@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3204AB2C-3B67-419A-851E-9BA8BEB2273A@gmail.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:56:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000414196058c2dd940" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC 6241 Ambiguity X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:57:16 -0000 --000000000000414196058c2dd940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, these changes look OK to me. Andy On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11:03 AM Mahesh Jethanandani < mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > Summarizing the list of changes that we seem to have agreed upon: > > For the first set of changes in section 7.8 and 7.9, we seem to agree on > the original set of changes I had sent out earlier, which essentially > deferred the discussion of confirmed commit to section 8.4 of the RFC. The > second set of changes updates Section 8.4.1 to explain what happens to a > confirmed commit that includes a element. > > The highlights in the sections should enable identifying the changes. > > *CHANGE 1 START* > > OLD (as in original RFC 6241) > > *7.8* *. > * > > Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will > gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks > and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any > associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a > request will be ignored. > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > NEW > > *7.8* *. > * > > Description: Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF server receives a request, it will > gracefully close the session. The server will release any locks > and resources associated with the session and gracefully close any > associated connections. Any NETCONF requests received after a > request will be ignored. > > For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a > request while processing a confirmed commit, > please refer to Section 8.4 > . > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > OLD (as in original RFC 6241). > > *7.9* *. * > > Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an > open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, > release any locks and resources associated with the session, and > close any associated connections. > > If a NETCONF server receives a request while > processing a confirmed commit (Section 8.4 > ), it MUST restore the > configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued. > > Otherwise, the operation does not roll back > configuration or other device state modifications made by the > entity holding the lock. > > Parameters: > > session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be > terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, > an "invalid-value" error is returned. > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > 4 > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > NEW > > *7.9* *. * > > Description: Force the termination of a NETCONF session. > > When a NETCONF entity receives a request for an > open session, it will abort any operations currently in process, > release any locks and resources associated with the session, and > close any associated connections. > > For details on what happens if a NETCONF server receives a > request while processing a confirmed commit, > please refer to Section 8.4 > . > > Otherwise, the operation does not roll back > configuration or other device state modifications made by the > entity holding the lock. > > Parameters: > > session-id: Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be > terminated. If this value is equal to the current session ID, > an "invalid-value" error is returned. > > Positive Response: If the device was able to satisfy the request, an > is sent that includes an element. > > Negative Response: An element is included in the > if the request cannot be completed for any reason. > > > Example: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > 4 > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > > > > *CHANGE 1 END* > > *CHANGE 2 START* > The following paragraph in Section 8.4.1 would be modified. > > OLD: > > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued. > > > NEW: > > If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout > expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state > before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit > also included a element, in which case the server MAY continue > the confirmed commit procedure. > > *CHANGE 2 END* > > Finally, looking at the current set of Errata that are already open > against the RFC, we (the chairs) believe that Errata number 5397 should be > deleted and (a new Errata with these contents) be posted. This is being > done to avoid stacking one Errata on top of another. > > Unless there is objection to these changes within the next two weeks, we > will proceed with submitting them to the RFC Editor. > > On Jun 12, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > This is the new text in question: > It appears your intent is (c) since there is no mention at all what > happens if > was included. The text just says what does not happen in this > case. > > >>> If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout >>> expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state >>> before the confirmed commit was issued, unless the confirmed commit >>> also included a element. >>> >> > > How about adding at the end: > > OLD: > > element. > > NEW: > > element, in which case the server MAY continue the confirmed commit > procedure. > > > Andy > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > >> >> Hi Andy, >> >> I object to changing RFC 6241 with an Errata if it attempts to enforce >> protocol behavior >> that the original RFC does not actually specify. (c) is correct for an >> Errata because the original RFC >> is under-specified. Or perhaps: (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots >> >> >> It sounds like we're in agreement. Are you objecting to something I >> wrote in particular? >> >> Kent // contributor >> >> >> > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000414196058c2dd940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

these changes look OK to= me.

Andy


On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11= :03 AM Mahesh Jethanandani <m= jethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
Summarizing= the list of changes that we seem to have agreed upon:

F= or the first set of changes in section 7.8 and 7.9, we seem to agree on the= original set of changes I had sent out earlier, which essentially deferred= the discussion of confirmed commit to section 8.4 of the RFC. The second s= et of changes updates Section 8.4.1 to explain what happens to a confirmed = commit that includes a <persist> element.

Th= e highlights in the sections should enable identifying the changes.

CHANGE 1 START

OLD (as in orig= inal RFC 6241)

7.8.=C2=A0 = <close-session>

=C2=A0=C2=A0= Description:=C2=A0 Request graceful termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF server= receives a <close-session> request, it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 gracefully close the session.=C2=A0 The server will release any lock= s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and resources associated with the session an= d gracefully close any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 associated connections.= =C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests received after a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &= lt;close-session> request will be ignored.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to sat= isfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is sent= that includes an <ok> element.

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is inclu= ded in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> if the request ca= nnot be completed for any reason.

=
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Example:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= <rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 </rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"&= gt;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 </rpc-reply>

NEW
7.8.=C2=A0 <close-session>
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description:=C2=A0 Request graceful termina= tion of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF server receives a <close-session> request, = it will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gracefully close the session.=C2=A0 Th= e server will release any locks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and resources = associated with the session and gracefully close any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 associated connections.=C2=A0 Any NETCONF requests received after a<= /span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session> request will be ignored.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For details on what happe= ns if a NETCONF server receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session> request while processing a confirmed c= ommit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 please refer to=C2= =A0Section 8.4.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the d= evice was able to satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <= rpc-reply> is sent that includes an <ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error= > element is included in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply&= gt; if the request cannot be completed for any reason.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Example:

<= /div>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:ba= se:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <close-session/><= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:net= conf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc-reply>
<= br>
O= LD (as in original RFC 6241).


<= /div>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description:=C2=A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session= .

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF = entity receives a <kill-session> request for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 open session, it will abort any operations currently in process,
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 release any locks and resources associated with = the session, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 close any associated connecti= ons.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If a NETCONF= server receives a <kill-session> request while
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= configuration to its state before the confirmed commit was issued.<= /div>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Otherwise, the <kill-= session> operation does not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 confi= guration or other device state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 entity holding the lock.

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Parameters:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 session-id:=C2=A0 Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is= equal to the current session ID,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= an "invalid-value" error is returned.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to = satisfy the request, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is s= ent that includes an <ok> element.
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Negative Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is in= cluded in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> if the request= cannot be completed for any reason.


=C2=A0=C2=A0 Example:
<= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101"=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:n= etconf:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <kill-sessi= on>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <session-id>4</se= ssion-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netcon= f:base:1.0">
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/><= /div>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc-reply>

=
NEW<= /div>

7.9.=C2=A0 <kill-session&= gt;

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description:=C2= =A0 Force the termination of a NETCONF session.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a NETCONF entity receives a <kill-se= ssion> request for an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 open session, it will= abort any operations currently in process,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 re= lease any locks and resources associated with the session, and
=
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 close any associated connections.

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0For details on what happens if a NETCONF serve= r receives a=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ki= ll-session> request while processing a confirmed commit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 please refer to=C2=A0Section 8.4.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Otherwise, the <kill-session> operation d= oes not roll back
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration or other devic= e state modifications made by the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entity holdi= ng the lock.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Parameters:<= /span>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 session-id:=C2=A0= Session identifier of the NETCONF session to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 terminated.=C2=A0 If this value is equal to the current s= ession ID,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an "invalid-value= " error is returned.

=C2=A0=C2=A0= Positive Response:=C2=A0 If the device was able to satisfy the request, an=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> is sent that includes an &l= t;ok> element.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Negativ= e Response:=C2=A0 An <rpc-error> element is included in the
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <rpc-reply> if the request cannot be completed f= or any reason.

=
= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Example:

=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 <rpc message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0&quo= t;>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <kill-session>
=
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <session-id>4</session-id>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </kill-session>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 </rpc>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 <rpc-reply message-id=3D"101"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"&= gt;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <ok/>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 </rpc-reply>

CHANGE 1 END=

CHANGE 2 START
The following paragraph in= Section 8.4.1 would be modified.

OLD:

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0 expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its = state
=C2=A0=C2=A0 before the confirmed commit was issued.


NEW:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the device = reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0 expi= res, the server MUST restore the configuration to its state
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 before the confirmed commit was issued,=C2=A0unless the confirmed commit=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 also included a <persist> element, in which cas= e the server MAY continue
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<= /span>the confirmed commit procedure.<= /span>

= CHANGE 2 END

Finally, looking at the cu= rrent set of Errata that are already open against the RFC, we (the chairs) = believe that Errata number 5397 should be deleted and (a new Errata with th= ese contents) be posted. This is being done to avoid stacking one Errata on= top of another.

Unless there is object= ion to these changes within the next two weeks, we will proceed with submit= ting them to the RFC Editor.

O= n Jun 12, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

Hi,

This is the new text in question:
It= appears your intent is (c) since there is no mention at all what happens i= f
<persist> was included.=C2=A0 The text just says what doe= s not happen in this case.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= If the device reboots for any reason before the confirm timeout
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0expires, the server MUST restore the configuration to its= state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0before the confirmed commit was issued,= =C2=A0unless the confirmed commit=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0also included a <persist> eleme= nt.


How a= bout adding at the end:

OLD:

<= div>element.

NEW:

element= , in which case the server MAY continue the confirmed commit procedure.


Andy
=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:16 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

Hi Andy,

I object to changing RFC 6241 = with an Errata if it attempts to enforce protocol behavior
that t= he original RFC does not actually specify.=C2=A0 (c) is correct for an Erra= ta because the original RFC
is under-specified.=C2=A0 Or perhaps:= (d) 'persist' MAY span reboots

It sounds like we're in agreement.=C2=A0 Are you o= bjecting to something I wrote in particular?

Kent= // contributor
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
--000000000000414196058c2dd940-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 01:56:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254CA12022E for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:56:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UU0lY7spFt-j for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE935120225 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 603CC1AE0351; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:56:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:56:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190626.105608.121899679021225720.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:56:14 -0000 Hi, Kent Watsen wrote: > > I started off trying to create a variation of "#2" but, as got into > it, I realized that *encrypting* the keys would solve most problems. > Note that we really don't want "hidden" keys at all, as them not being > part of configuration causes backup/restore problems. What we want > are values that can be treated like config, but are non-sensical > without the decryption key. Values MAY be encrypted using a > manufacturer-generated key (which locks the value to the device), or a > key generated by a *privileged* admin, which opens up the possibility > for the key to float between devices. > > Specifically, imagine the following: > > Precondition: > 1) devices are shipped from manufacturer with a hidden asymmetric key > in > > Post-SZTP Onboarding: > 2) privileged admin copies manufacturer generated key from > to The device could also store this key (or rather just the name) in its factory configuration. I don't think the public key and alg needs to go into the config. Or in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it should NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be ensured with "must"). However, they must be present in the operational state. > 3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the organization) > symmetric key using the public key from the manufacturer generated > asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., into > keystore. Ok. However, if the device doesn't have a hidden manufacturer-supplied key from step 1 (no tpm), it would be useful if the admin could install this symmetric key so that it becomes hidden. But that action is no longer present in the model. Or does this model *require* the device to have such a key? If no tpm exists, then it can exist on disk? > Device Swap: > 4) if replacing a device, load previous configuration. Since all keys > should be encrypted to the same symmetric key, it should load without > error. Before loading the previous config, the admin must do steps 2-3 on the new device, right? > [note: one issue here with the secret symmetric key itself > being loaded again, but since it was encrypted using to old device's > manufacturer generated asymmetric key, the logic should be able to > handle it.] Hmm, can you elaborate? It seems to me to be a problem; it needs to be re-installed so that it is encrypted with the new device's public key. > Runtime: > 5) whenever a regular admin wishes to use a new key, they call the > generate-symmetric-key or generate-asymmetric-key RPC, requesting the > device to generate a key for them, encrypting the result using the > secret organization key. > 6) The RPC output returns the key value (encrypted). > 7) The regular admin uses e.g., to store the key into > . > > > Use cases: > 0: normal (just NACM-protected) keys: supported. > 1: manufacturer-generated permanently hidden keys: supported. > 2: device-generated keys: supported. > 3: device-generated keys in config: supported > 4: permanently hidden keys: not recommended nor directly > supported, but one could always encrypt a key with the > device's public key, thus generating a key that only the > device can decrypt, and hence effectively permenently > hidden. > > > Please let me know soon if you object to any aspect of this or, > better, support it, as I need to update the remaining drafts to > reflect these changes at some point soon. Also, if we go this route, this draft (keystore) needs more text, and also explain the use cases described above. Then there are some details, e.g. why do we have identity asymmetric-key-algorithm { description "Base identity from which all asymmetric key encryption Algorithm."; } vs identity encryption-algorithm { description "A base identity for encryption algorithm."; } Why isn't the latter called "symmetric-key-algorithm"? /martin > > > Below are the change log entries. > > crypto-types: > > o Removed the 'generate-key and 'hidden-key' features. > > o Added grouping symmetric-key-grouping > > o Modified 'asymmetric-key-pair-grouping' to have a 'choice' > statement for the keystone module to augment into, as well as > replacing the 'union' with leafs (having different NACM settings. > > o Diffs: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-08 > > > > keystore: > > o Replaced typedef asymmetric-key-certificate-ref with grouping > asymmetric-key-certificate-ref-grouping. > > o Added feature feature 'key-generation'. > > o Cloned groupings symmetric-key-grouping, asymmetric-key-pair- > grouping, asymmetric-key-pair-with-cert-grouping, and asymmetric- > key-pair-with-certs-grouping from crypto-keys, augmenting into > each new case statements for values that have been encrypted by > other keys in the keystore. Refactored keystore model to use > these groupings. > > o Added new 'symmetric-keys' lists, as a sibling to the existing > 'asymmetric-keys' list. > > o Added RPCs (not actions) 'generate-symmetric-key' and 'generate- > asymmetric-key' to *return* a (potentially encrypted) key. > > o Diffs: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-11 > > > > > > Kent // contributor > > > > > > From nobody Wed Jun 26 16:37:54 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1850C12019C for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:37:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X6fwxi9NfMmy for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00300120164 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:37:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561592268; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=XWLY242m49pkjX2LLqM5Vqdg8Pf35vS9kHaLgbHrmCE=; b=KU0dv2ce0SBWygVRxQRTlbFK9rszOpoVOt8N2r5Tx55qEKzP537NnTZ7L0bIj8xs k2IYn1DzNknWmo700c5g1lep3dI0wWNiEE6c8Lt4QZ+VYaGr3b93CMNym44bsg5aog3 l95+XO5taacvR5Gs0BI9NghDYI/AXSQTe86PK6ME= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5E97E031-8771-4779-999E-F6652A25ACBB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:37:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190626.105608.121899679021225720.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Martin Bjorklund References: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190626.105608.121899679021225720.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.26-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:37:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5E97E031-8771-4779-999E-F6652A25ACBB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> 2) privileged admin copies manufacturer generated key from >> to >=20 > The device could also store this key (or rather just the name) in its > factory configuration. Sure, but only if it's immutable. To be clear, users are not able to = delete the manufacturer generated key(s), at least not those use to = support the device's cryptographic identity. This is true even when = wiping the device for sale... > I don't think the public key and alg needs to go into the config. > Or in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it should > NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be ensured with > "must"). However, they must be present in the operational state. Okay, but in thinking about going down that route, I'd rather use a = special enum/union type values to denote the absence of these fields = than to mark the nodes mandatory false. Personally, I think it's better = to duplicate the values into configuration as it does no harm and it = makes them easier and more consistent to work with (e.g., clients need = the public key in order to encrypt data destined to the device). = Really, I don't want any keys in , but feel that we have to = make an exception for the manufacturer-generated keys (unless, to your = comment above, we could mark them as immutable in the configuration). = [PS: in a previous life, I used per instance metadata when a node was = immutable.] >> 3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the = organization) >> symmetric key using the public key from the manufacturer generated >> asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., into >> keystore. >=20 > Ok. However, if the device doesn't have a hidden > manufacturer-supplied key from step 1 (no tpm), it would be useful if > the admin could install this symmetric key so that it becomes hidden. > But that action is no longer present in the model. True, but it seems strange that a device would have the ability to store = hidden keys without itself being shipped with a hidden key. We could = add a set of RPCs to manage the life-cycle of hidden keys, but I'd = rather steer folks to using NACM in such cases, as I don't think it = makes sense to either have 1) persistent user-created operational state = or 2) persistent configuration that isn't configuration. > Or does this model *require* the device to have such a key? If no tpm > exists, then it can exist on disk? Not required. For devices that don't have hidden keys, plain old NACM = could protect the encryption-key used to protect all the other keys in = the configuration. The primary benefit would still be present, that = keys subsequently generated by the device would be protected by the = encryption key. The downside would be that the encryption key itself, = when generated, could not be protected in the same way. For such = situations, it would be recommended that this key be installed from a = known-safe connection (i.e., via an air-gapped system). >> 4) if replacing a device, load previous configuration. Since all = keys >> should be encrypted to the same symmetric key, it should load without >> error. >=20 > Before loading the previous config, the admin must do steps 2-3 on the > new device, right? Correct. To be more clear, all steps except (4) would occur on a first = device and then, when an RMA is necessary, steps (1-3) would occur on a = second device, following by step (4) to migrate the configuration from = the first device to the second device, and then the remaining steps (5+) = would be business as usual on the second device. >> [note: one issue here with the secret symmetric key itself >> being loaded again, but since it was encrypted using to old device's >> manufacturer generated asymmetric key, the logic should be able to >> handle it.] >=20 > Hmm, can you elaborate? It seems to me to be a problem; it needs to > be re-installed so that it is encrypted with the new device's public > key. What is meant is that the symmetric key would be created once on the = second device, in step (3), but because the old encrypted symmetric key = was stored in configuration (on the first device), when loading the = configuration here in step (4), it is as if the symmetric key is being = created again on the second device. But the logic on the second device = should be able to detect this anomaly (because the key would've been = encrypted by the first device's private key, and hence decryption should = fail on the second device) and thus the "duplicate" symmetric key would = be discarded. >=20 >> Runtime: >> 5) whenever a regular admin wishes to use a new key, they call the >> generate-symmetric-key or generate-asymmetric-key RPC, requesting the >> device to generate a key for them, encrypting the result using the >> secret organization key. >> 6) The RPC output returns the key value (encrypted). >> 7) The regular admin uses e.g., to store the key into >> . >>=20 >>=20 >> Use cases:=20 >> 0: normal (just NACM-protected) keys: supported. >> 1: manufacturer-generated permanently hidden keys: supported. >> 2: device-generated keys: supported. >> 3: device-generated keys in config: supported >> 4: permanently hidden keys: not recommended nor directly >> supported, but one could always encrypt a key with the >> device's public key, thus generating a key that only the >> device can decrypt, and hence effectively permenently >> hidden. >>=20 >>=20 >> Please let me know soon if you object to any aspect of this or, >> better, support it, as I need to update the remaining drafts to >> reflect these changes at some point soon. >=20 > Also, if we go this route, this draft (keystore) needs more text, and > also explain the use cases described above. Agreed. I also never documented the "generate-symmetric-key" and = "generate-asymmetric-key" RPCs... Regarding "going this route", your response thus far seems to be on the = level so, would it be fair to say that you're leaning towards thinking = that it might be okay? > Then there are some details, e.g. why do we have=20 >=20 > identity asymmetric-key-algorithm { > description > "Base identity from which all asymmetric key > encryption Algorithm."; > } >=20 > vs >=20 > identity encryption-algorithm { > description > "A base identity for encryption algorithm."; > } >=20 > Why isn't the latter called "symmetric-key-algorithm"? These identities (now enumerations) are coming from the crypto-types = module in a section maintained by my co-author from Huawei who has even = more crypto-clue than I. My guess is that this is what they're called = in IANA registries for historical reasons. > /martin Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_5E97E031-8771-4779-999E-F6652A25ACBB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

2) privileged admin = copies manufacturer generated key from
<operational> = to <running>

The device = could also store this key (or rather just the name) in its
factory configuration.

Sure, but only if it's immutable.  To be clear, = users are not able to delete the manufacturer generated key(s), at least = not those use to support the device's cryptographic identity.  This = is true even when wiping the device for sale...


I don't think the public key and alg needs to go into the = config.
Or = in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it should
NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be ensured = with
"must").  However, they must be present in the = operational state.

Okay, but in thinking about going down that = route, I'd rather use a special enum/union type values to denote the = absence of these fields than to mark the nodes mandatory false. =  Personally, I think it's better to duplicate the values into = configuration as it does no harm and it makes them easier and more = consistent to work with (e.g., clients need the public key in order to = encrypt data destined to the device).  Really, I don't want any = keys in <operational>, but feel that we have to make an exception = for the manufacturer-generated keys (unless, to your comment above, we = could mark them as immutable in the configuration).  [PS: in a = previous life, I used per instance metadata when a node was = immutable.]



3) privileged admin = encrypts a well-known (secret to the organization)
symmetric= key using the public key from the manufacturer generated
asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., = <edit-config> into
keystore.

Ok.  However, if the device = doesn't have a hidden
manufacturer-supplied key from step = 1 (no tpm), it would be useful if
the admin could install = this symmetric key so that it becomes hidden.
But that = action is no longer present in the model.

True, but it = seems strange that a device would have the ability to store hidden keys = without itself being shipped with a hidden key.  We could add a set = of RPCs to manage the life-cycle of hidden keys, but I'd rather steer = folks to using NACM in such cases, as I don't think it makes sense to = either have 1) persistent user-created operational state or 2) = persistent configuration that isn't configuration.



Or does this model *require* the device to have = such a key?  If no tpm
exists, then it can exist on = disk?

Not = required.  For devices that don't have hidden keys, plain old NACM = could protect the encryption-key used to protect all the other keys in = the configuration.  The primary benefit would still be present, = that keys subsequently generated by the device would be protected by the = encryption key.  The downside would be that the encryption key = itself, when generated, could not be protected in the same way. =  For such situations, it would be recommended that this key be = installed from a known-safe connection (i.e., via an air-gapped = system).



4) if replacing a device, load previous configuration. =  Since all keys
should be encrypted to the same = symmetric key, it should load without
error.

Before loading the previous = config, the admin must do steps 2-3 on the
new device, = right?

Correct. =  To be more clear, all steps except (4) would occur on a first = device and then, when an RMA is necessary, steps (1-3) would occur on a = second device, following by step (4) to migrate the configuration from = the first device to the second device, and then the remaining steps (5+) = would be business as usual on the second device.



[note: one issue here with the secret symmetric = key itself
being loaded again, but since it was encrypted = using to old device's
manufacturer generated asymmetric = key, the logic should be able to
handle it.]

Hmm, can you elaborate?  It = seems to me to be a problem; it needs to
be re-installed = so that it is encrypted with the new device's public
key.

What is meant is = that the symmetric key would be created once on the second device, in = step (3), but because the old encrypted symmetric key was stored in = configuration (on the first device), when loading the configuration here = in step (4), it is as if the symmetric key is being created again on the = second device.  But the logic on the second device should be able = to detect this anomaly (because the key would've been encrypted by the = first device's private key, and hence decryption should fail on the = second device) and thus the "duplicate" symmetric key would be = discarded.




Runtime:
5) whenever a regular = admin wishes to use a new key, they call the
generate-symmetric-key or generate-asymmetric-key RPC, = requesting the
device to generate a key for them, = encrypting the result using the
secret organization = key.
6) The RPC output returns the key value = (encrypted).
7) The regular admin uses e.g., = <edit-config> to store the key into
<running>.


Use cases:
 0: normal (just = NACM-protected) keys:  supported.
 1: = manufacturer-generated permanently hidden keys: supported.
=  2: device-generated keys: supported.
 3: = device-generated keys in config: supported
 4: = permanently hidden keys: not recommended nor directly
=     supported, but one could always encrypt a key = with the
    device's public key, = thus generating a key that only the
=     device can decrypt, and hence effectively = permenently
    hidden.


Please let me know soon if you = object to any aspect of this or,
better, support it, as I = need to update the remaining drafts to
reflect these = changes at some point soon.

Also, if we go this route, this draft (keystore) needs more = text, and
also explain the use cases described above.

Agreed.   I = also never documented the "generate-symmetric-key" and = "generate-asymmetric-key" RPCs...

Regarding "going this route", your response thus = far seems to be on the level so, would it be fair to say that you're = leaning towards thinking that it might be okay?



Then there are some details, e.g. why do we = have

   identity = asymmetric-key-algorithm {
=      description
=        "Base identity from which all = asymmetric key
=         encryption = Algorithm.";
   }

vs

   identity = encryption-algorithm {
=      description
=        "A base identity for = encryption algorithm.";
   }

Why isn't the latter called = "symmetric-key-algorithm"?


These identities (now = enumerations) are coming from the crypto-types module in a section = maintained by my co-author from Huawei who has even more crypto-clue = than I.   My guess is that this is what they're called in IANA = registries for historical reasons.


/martin

Kent // = contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_5E97E031-8771-4779-999E-F6652A25ACBB-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 17:05:53 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b9640a87c-b6e29e8c-0db0-4f15-bb58-887fc48c81d0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE5C120164 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:05:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oRNUUsfk0ugO for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A70D412007A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:05:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561593948; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=atm5ZOD6hzYJSq73Gq3HWzSr1SYOvekMH/4IPExt9T8=; b=KYL1kYmZV8aHD401B7XCB+gfq59JN+vzYtC6b5Aq1qbSY+ViQvPGlO9EiEa1Qrov jXE4o+UAiq9WI+vCtcVeJzLMhuXX3aLVNmuPG1o7JE3JUeGfeK5w2u4HkqRnJTMZbKS TLc7svPpfEJUmBY0GUYRmiF1aUNn5eJ/hXftpEv0= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b9640a87c-b6e29e8c-0db0-4f15-bb58-887fc48c81d0-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6EBD5D1E-72A1-4EFC-967E-5AFDD1EB6AA2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:05:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190625.224243.332607515244909664.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: frank.xialiang@huawei.com, "netconf@ietf.org" To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20190625.084508.905200182299290020.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b8f701d10-02dff612-5c5f-4ed3-938d-8b9f25679996-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190625.224243.332607515244909664.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.27-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:05:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6EBD5D1E-72A1-4EFC-967E-5AFDD1EB6AA2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Martin, >> 4) to enable the SSH and TLS models to use types defined in their >> protocol specs, mapping tables were added to those drafts to map the >> protocol-specific types to the generic crypto-types type. >=20 > So perhaps this is not the best solution? The big set of types (in > crypto-types) will change over time, and the subsets used in various > applications will also change over time. The best solution for such > sets in the IETF seems to be IANA registries, with corresponding > IANA-maintained YANG modules. I'm hoping someone, perhaps my co-authors, can suggest a path forward. >> 8) our efforts to normalize this may be futile, and yet we want to >> support keystore. >=20 > Perhaps we can take a step back and define just the types we need > right now for keystore, in order to finish these drafts. Then we (or > some other WG) can immediately start to work on an update to > crypto-types that would define more types for other purposes as well. Maybe, depending on how that turns out, it may be trivial to extend the = approach to cover everything. Kent // contributor= --Apple-Mail=_6EBD5D1E-72A1-4EFC-967E-5AFDD1EB6AA2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Martin,

4) to enable the SSH and TLS models to use types defined in = their
protocol specs, mapping tables were added to those = drafts to map the
protocol-specific types to the generic = crypto-types type.

So perhaps = this is not the best solution?  The big set of types (in
crypto-types) will change over time, and the subsets used in = various
applications will also change over time.  The = best solution for such
sets in the IETF seems to be IANA = registries, with corresponding
IANA-maintained YANG = modules.

I'm hoping someone, perhaps my co-authors, can = suggest a path forward.



8) our = efforts to normalize this may be futile, and yet we want to
support keystore.

Perhaps we can take a step back and define just the types we = need
right now for keystore, in order to finish these = drafts.  Then we (or
some other WG) can immediately = start to work on an update to
crypto-types that would = define more types for other purposes as well.

Maybe, = depending on how that turns out, it may be trivial to extend the = approach to cover everything.


Kent // contributor
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As the introduction says, the Subscribed Notifications draft defines a = YANG module for configuring subscribed notifications. That module = defines a subscription container that contains a list of receivers. But = that draft defers the configuration and management of the receivers to = other documents. This draft defines one of those transports and how to = configure it. Comments are welcome. > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani and posted to = the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif > Revision: 00 > Title: An HTTPS-based Transport for Configured = Subscriptions > Document date: 2019-06-26 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 11 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif-00.t= xt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif-00 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines a YANG data module for configuring HTTPS based > configured subscription, as defined I-D.ietf-netconf-subscribed- > notifications. The use of HTTPS maximizes transport-level > interoperability, while allowing for encoding selection from text, > e.g. XML or JSON, to binary. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Wed Jun 26 18:33:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C57120472 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:33:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nz1NjG9CZAof for ; 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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:02:30 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by dggemm424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:58:57 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: Yangshouchuan , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqw== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 01:58:55 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:02:44 -0000 --_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: 7.7. Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state information. This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user, bu= t also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client issu= es get operation to retrieve this node, The data is created/modified by system or other protocols SHOULD = be returned? For example: Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by routing = protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: +--rw ribs +--rw rib* [name] +--rw name string +--rw address-family? identityref +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? +--ro routes | +--ro route* | ... +---x active-route | +---w input | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address | +--ro output | ... +--rw description? string If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA device= , rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? Another associated question: If client issued get-config operation f= rom non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be returned? --_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

In= RFC6241, get operation is defined as:

7= .7.  <get>

 &nbs=
p; Description:  Retrieve running configuration and device state<=
/o:p>
 &nbs=
p;    information.

Th= is description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified.=

 

Th= e case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user, but = also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client issues= get operation to retrieve this node,

&n= bsp;         The data is created/mo= dified by system or other protocols SHOULD be returned?

&n= bsp;         For example:

&n= bsp;         Rib can be configured = by user and also can be created by routing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib = list is defined as:

 =
;
 &nbs=
p;    +--rw ribs
 &nbs=
p;       +--rw rib* [name]
 &nbs=
p;          +--rw name&nbs=
p;             =
string
 &nbs=
p;          +--rw address-=
family?   identityref
 &nbs=
p;          +--ro default-=
rib?      boolean {multiple-ribs}?
 &nbs=
p;          +--ro routes
 &nbs=
p;          |  +--ro =
route*
 &nbs=
p;          |   =
;     ...
 &nbs=
p;          +---x active-r=
oute
 &nbs=
p;          |  +---w =
input
 &nbs=
p;          |  |  &#=
43;---w v4ur:destination-address?   inet:ipv4-address<=
/span>
 &nbs=
p;          |  |  &#=
43;---w v6ur:destination-address?   inet:ipv6-address<=
/span>
 &nbs=
p;          |  +--ro =
output
 &nbs=
p;          |   =
;     ...
 &nbs=
p;          +--rw descript=
ion?      string
 =
;
 &nbs=
p;     If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs =
from non-NMDA device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be r=
eturned?
 &nbs=
p;     Another associated question: If client issued ge=
t-config operation from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance =
should be returned?  

 

--_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 20:46:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB35412006B for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LXY3rAbqerqm for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com 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Hi Martin, Kent and al= l,

Thanks for so producti= ve discussion and clarification for our current problems and possible solut= ion. And sorry for late response since I am out of office yesterday.

 

Let me give more infor= mation for better understanding the difficulties we are facing, and hopeful= a direction worth for going to.

 

Please see inline:

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kent Watsen [m= ailto:kent+ietf@watsen.net]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:<= /span> 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C227=C8=D5 8:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) <frank.xialiang@h= uawei.com>; netconf@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-09.txt

 

Hi Martin,



4) to enable the SSH and TLS mo= dels to use types defined in their
protocol specs, mapping tables were added to those drafts to map the
protocol-specific types to the generic crypto-types type.=


So perhaps this is not the best solution?  The big set of types (in crypto-types) will change over time, and the subsets used in various
applications will also change over time.  The best solution for such sets in the IETF seems to be IANA registries, with corresponding
IANA-maintained YANG modules.

 

I'm hoping someone, perhaps my = co-authors, can suggest a path forward.

 

[Frank]= : We mainly reference to these 3 IANA registries for define our crypto type= s in draft:

1. &nbs= p;     https://www.iana.= org/assignments/tls-parameters/tls-parameters.xhtml: which includes TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3.

2. &nbs= p;     https://www.i= ana.org/assignments/ikev2-parameters/ikev2-parameters.xhtml, https://tools.ietf.org/html= /rfc8221-- crypto a= lgorithms guidance for ESP and AH, https://tools.ietf.org/html= /rfc8247-- crypto algorithms guidance for IKEv2: the 2 d= rafts are the latest recommendations for crypto algos of IPsec, so we mainl= y reference the definition in them;

3. &nbs= p;     https://www.iana.= org/assignments/ssh-parameters/ssh-parameters.xhtml, https://tools.ietf.org/html= /rfc4253 -- main SSH Spec, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8332 -- ne= w RSA with SHA256 and SHA512 for its authentication function: also, the 2 d= rafts are the main resource we have referenced.

 

So, the above referenc= e are all current input for the crypto type definition in the crypto types = draft. Now, the 2 main difficulties for us are:

1. &nbs= p;     For the above = 3 protocols and their respective and different crypto algorithm definition = in each IANA registries, should we align our yang model to all of them, or only one of them? If the former, we must deal wit= h the problem that same crypto algo has different IANA number in different = IANA registries?

2. &nbs= p;     Considering TLS 1.2, which uses a combined way to represent different type= s of crypto into one IANA number (e.g., TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256= ). That is against our crypto type definition principle (IPsec and SSH are all aligned): atomic, which means we are curr= ently define 7 categories of crypto type: Hash Algorithms, Asymmetric Key A= lgorithms, MAC Algorithms, Encryption Algorithms, Encryption and MAC Algori= thms, Signature Algorithms and Key Exchange Algorithms. So, how should we map our crypto type definition back= to TLS 1.2 IANA numbers?

&n= bsp;

After clarifying our p= roblems, I want to ask if we can solve them by this way: we yang guys defin= e a crypto type yang IANA registries, which can keep on being aligned with all the related protocols=A1=AF IANA registries= , but have its own IANA number for each crypto algorithms. So, our draft ju= st need to follow this IANA registries.



8) our efforts to normalize thi= s may be futile, and yet we want to
support keystore.


Perhaps we can take a step back and define just the types we need
right now for keystore, in order to finish these drafts.  Then we (or<= br> some other WG) can immediately start to work on an update to
crypto-types that would define more types for other purposes as well.<= /o:p>

 

Maybe, depending on how that tu= rns out, it may be trivial to extend the approach to cover everything.=

 

[Frank]: based on my c= larification above, even we have TLS and SSH now, we still have to deal wit= h the aforementioned 2 difficulties. If so, why not do it right at start time?

 

&n= bsp;

B.R.=

Frank

 

Kent // contributor<= /span>

--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F13E7B45A1dggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Thu Jun 27 08:30:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10C91200F8 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O6O42e7gz5W3 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A12F12010F for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B6E71AE02F0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:30:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:30:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190627.173012.789366833379165040.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190626.105608.121899679021225720.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:30:18 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> 2) privileged admin copies manufacturer generated key from > >> to > > > > The device could also store this key (or rather just the name) in its > > factory configuration. > > Sure, but only if it's immutable. No I disagree. If an admin can create it, it could be part of the factory default config, for convenience. A user with the right access can delete it from the config, just as if it had been created by an admin. > To be clear, users are not able to > delete the manufacturer generated key(s), at least not those use to > support the device's cryptographic identity. Agreed. Deleting the name from the config doesn't wipe the hw key. > This is true even when > wiping the device for sale... > > > > I don't think the public key and alg needs to go into the config. > > > Or in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it should > > NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be ensured with > > "must"). However, they must be present in the operational state. > > Okay, but in thinking about going down that route, I'd rather use a > special enum/union type values to denote the absence of these fields > than to mark the nodes mandatory false. Personally, I think it's > better to duplicate the values into configuration as it does no harm > and it makes them easier and more consistent to work with I think it makes them more difficult to work with. Why should I be able to modify the public key of a hw-stored key? It is just error prone. > (e.g., > clients need the public key in order to encrypt data destined to the > device). Really, I don't want any keys in If you need the public key why is it a problem to read it from ? > , but feel > that we have to make an exception for the manufacturer-generated keys > (unless, to your comment above, we could mark them as immutable in the > configuration). [PS: in a previous life, I used per instance metadata > when a node was immutable.] > > > > >> 3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the organization) > >> symmetric key using the public key from the manufacturer generated > >> asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., into > >> keystore. > > > > Ok. However, if the device doesn't have a hidden > > manufacturer-supplied key from step 1 (no tpm), it would be useful if > > the admin could install this symmetric key so that it becomes hidden. > > But that action is no longer present in the model. > > True, but it seems strange that a device would have the ability to > store hidden keys without itself being shipped with a hidden key. Hasn't the previous discussion shown that it is quite common to store keys separate from the normal config? I like the new design of this module, where all keys (but one!) are stored encrypted. But that one key needs to be as protected as possible. > We > could add a set of RPCs to manage the life-cycle of hidden keys Or perhaps state that the management of such keys are out of scope (for now)? >, but > I'd rather steer folks to using NACM in such cases, as I don't think > it makes sense to either have 1) persistent user-created operational > state or 2) persistent configuration that isn't configuration. > > > > > Or does this model *require* the device to have such a key? If no tpm > > exists, then it can exist on disk? > > Not required. For devices that don't have hidden keys, plain old NACM > could protect the encryption-key used to protect all the other keys in > the configuration. The primary benefit would still be present, that > keys subsequently generated by the device would be protected by the > encryption key. I think this benefit goes away if the encryption key itself it present in clear text in the config. In this case we could as well use NACM to protect *all* keys. > The downside would be that the encryption key itself, > when generated, could not be protected in the same way. For such > situations, it would be recommended that this key be installed from a > known-safe connection (i.e., via an air-gapped system). Perhaps this is the "out-of-scope" that I mentioned above? > >> 4) if replacing a device, load previous configuration. Since all keys > >> should be encrypted to the same symmetric key, it should load without > >> error. > > > > Before loading the previous config, the admin must do steps 2-3 on the > > new device, right? > > Correct. To be more clear, all steps except (4) would occur on a > first device and then, when an RMA is necessary, steps (1-3) would > occur on a second device, following by step (4) to migrate the > configuration from the first device to the second device, and then the > remaining steps (5+) would be business as usual on the second device. > > > > >> [note: one issue here with the secret symmetric key itself > >> being loaded again, but since it was encrypted using to old device's > >> manufacturer generated asymmetric key, the logic should be able to > >> handle it.] > > > > Hmm, can you elaborate? It seems to me to be a problem; it needs to > > be re-installed so that it is encrypted with the new device's public > > key. > > What is meant is that the symmetric key would be created once on the > second device, in step (3), but because the old encrypted symmetric > key was stored in configuration (on the first device), when loading > the configuration here in step (4), it is as if the symmetric key is > being created again on the second device. But the logic on the second > device should be able to detect this anomaly (because the key would've > been encrypted by the first device's private key, and hence decryption > should fail on the second device) and thus the "duplicate" symmetric > key would be discarded. Hmm, I still don't see how this is supposed to work. Are you suggesting special treatment for this list entry by the edit-config / copy-config operations? I strongly object to such a hack, but perhaps you meant something else? > >> Runtime: > >> 5) whenever a regular admin wishes to use a new key, they call the > >> generate-symmetric-key or generate-asymmetric-key RPC, requesting the > >> device to generate a key for them, encrypting the result using the > >> secret organization key. > >> 6) The RPC output returns the key value (encrypted). > >> 7) The regular admin uses e.g., to store the key into > >> . > >> > >> > >> Use cases: > >> 0: normal (just NACM-protected) keys: supported. > >> 1: manufacturer-generated permanently hidden keys: supported. > >> 2: device-generated keys: supported. > >> 3: device-generated keys in config: supported > >> 4: permanently hidden keys: not recommended nor directly > >> supported, but one could always encrypt a key with the > >> device's public key, thus generating a key that only the > >> device can decrypt, and hence effectively permenently > >> hidden. > >> > >> > >> Please let me know soon if you object to any aspect of this or, > >> better, support it, as I need to update the remaining drafts to > >> reflect these changes at some point soon. > > > > Also, if we go this route, this draft (keystore) needs more text, and > > also explain the use cases described above. > > Agreed. I also never documented the "generate-symmetric-key" and > "generate-asymmetric-key" RPCs... > > Regarding "going this route", your response thus far seems to be on > the level so, would it be fair to say that you're leaning towards > thinking that it might be okay? Yes I think this looks promising! > > Then there are some details, e.g. why do we have > > > > identity asymmetric-key-algorithm { > > description > > "Base identity from which all asymmetric key > > encryption Algorithm."; > > } > > > > vs > > > > identity encryption-algorithm { > > description > > "A base identity for encryption algorithm."; > > } > > > > Why isn't the latter called "symmetric-key-algorithm"? > > > These identities (now enumerations) are coming from the crypto-types > module in a section maintained by my co-author from Huawei who has > even more crypto-clue than I. My guess is that this is what they're > called in IANA registries for historical reasons. Ok, but you agree that "symmetric-key-algorithm" would be better, unless there's some strong historical reason for keeping "encryption-algorithm"? /martin From nobody Thu Jun 27 17:22:41 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b9b765508-5742ab05-ca2b-4d94-b040-75a2eed52d42-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E831E1200EF for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AUSZhe-aOkNq for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A32B0120122 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:22:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561681352; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=O28qfXnuK8Ls0UP8+O0ER0bAf8m8bxlz14EnM4LbQ60=; b=htGN/OrUWfBRMrpaZcsubnkfsKA6UFx7cCozMAvWdWNfBJVROzgh/pf1ZwQvBlcG 6A0zn9+ws5tHxv1txiHbIb2DBR0UqtBa0Vyt/qY78lE6ZgI/YBNlc4XZLixK8ztdvN6 MsZ080wROYNoENOJGzHSOREijFBOjI0hf3jCUvEQ= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b9b765508-5742ab05-ca2b-4d94-b040-75a2eed52d42-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FC2A29CE-163D-4B95-8ABF-DFBB5DC3B552" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:22:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190627.173012.789366833379165040.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Martin Bjorklund References: <0100016b68794a39-0d934910-4b4b-4801-8d56-27f678081e93-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190626.105608.121899679021225720.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190627.173012.789366833379165040.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.28-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:22:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FC2A29CE-163D-4B95-8ABF-DFBB5DC3B552 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Martin, >>>> 2) privileged admin copies manufacturer generated key from >>>> to >>>=20 >>> The device could also store this key (or rather just the name) in = its >>> factory configuration. >>=20 >> Sure, but only if it's immutable. >=20 > No I disagree. If an admin can create it, it could be part of the > factory default config, for convenience. A user with the right access > can delete it from the config, just as if it had been created by an > admin. Based on your later comments, it seems that we're more in agreement than = not. Let me rephrase, if the manufacturer generated keys (with = 'hidden-key' or 'hidden-private-key') are stored in the factory default = datastore, per draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default, they would be = read-only and hence immutable. Now, upon that configuration being = copied into , the configuration would become editable and said = keys could be removed. >>> I don't think the public key and alg needs to go into the config. >>=20 >>> Or in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it should >>> NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be ensured with >>> "must"). However, they must be present in the operational state. >>=20 >> Okay, but in thinking about going down that route, I'd rather use a >> special enum/union type values to denote the absence of these fields >> than to mark the nodes mandatory false. Personally, I think it's >> better to duplicate the values into configuration as it does no harm >> and it makes them easier and more consistent to work with >=20 > I think it makes them more difficult to work with. Why should I be > able to modify the public key of a hw-stored key? It is just error > prone. Assuming that the manufacturer generated keys are in = then, when copied to , they have identical values as they were = in (i.e., all three fields are present) >> (e.g., >> clients need the public key in order to encrypt data destined to the >> device). Really, I don't want any keys in >=20 > If you need the public key why is it a problem to read it from > ? It's not, but my comment was about keys as a whole (not the key's inner = values). The approach is nice because it normalizes = all key access to one approach (intended configuration). >>>> 3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the = organization) >>>> symmetric key using the public key from the manufacturer generated >>>> asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., into >>>> keystore. >>>=20 >>> Ok. However, if the device doesn't have a hidden >>> manufacturer-supplied key from step 1 (no tpm), it would be useful = if >>> the admin could install this symmetric key so that it becomes = hidden. >>> But that action is no longer present in the model. >>=20 >> True, but it seems strange that a device would have the ability to >> store hidden keys without itself being shipped with a hidden key. >=20 > Hasn't the previous discussion shown that it is quite common to store > keys separate from the normal config? My assertion is that any device that has the ability to install "hidden" = keys surely would ship with preconfigured hidden keys that could = subsequently be used by admins to encrypt any keys they create later, = hence negating the need for the device to support a feature to install = hidden keys. > I like the new design of this module, where all keys (but one!) are > stored encrypted. But that one key needs to be as protected as > possible. Agreed. >> We >> could add a set of RPCs to manage the life-cycle of hidden keys >=20 > Or perhaps state that the management of such keys are out of scope > (for now)? This is my preference. In particular, the current model defines the = ability for keys to be hidden, and specifically says "How such keys are = created is outside the scope of this module." It is my hope/intention = to not define any module defining an ability to create/install hidden = keys, thus restricting their creation to manufacturing-time magic and = vendor-specific modules defining proprietary RPCs. >>> Or does this model *require* the device to have such a key? If no = tpm >>> exists, then it can exist on disk? >>=20 >> Not required. For devices that don't have hidden keys, plain old = NACM >> could protect the encryption-key used to protect all the other keys = in >> the configuration. The primary benefit would still be present, that >> keys subsequently generated by the device would be protected by the >> encryption key. >=20 > I think this benefit goes away if the encryption key itself it present > in clear text in the config. In this case we could as well use NACM > to protect *all* keys. Yes and no. Yes, in the sense that NACM is the ultimate protection = mechanism but, no, in the sense that this fails to have value. = Specifically, regular admins can still ask the device to generate a key, = encrypted by another key that they don't have access to. Similarly, = regular admins can operate in (copy/paste/reference) encrypted keys = without ever being able to access the secret data. FWIW, in JUNOS, the DDL/YANG modeling language has a special "secret = data" annotation that switches on logic to encrypt said data at-rest and = over-the-wire for all except users in the "super-user" class. JUNOS = users are typically configured in the "operator" class, and sometimes in = the "read-only" class. This is effectively the NACM model we're = discussing here, and it's been shipping for a long time. >> The downside would be that the encryption key itself, >> when generated, could not be protected in the same way. For such >> situations, it would be recommended that this key be installed from a >> known-safe connection (i.e., via an air-gapped system). >=20 > Perhaps this is the "out-of-scope" that I mentioned above? No, this part would be best practice. That is, if one must handle = private keys in the clear, at least be sure to do so via a secure system = and via a secure network. >> What is meant is that the symmetric key would be created once on the >> second device, in step (3), but because the old encrypted symmetric >> key was stored in configuration (on the first device), when loading >> the configuration here in step (4), it is as if the symmetric key is >> being created again on the second device. But the logic on the = second >> device should be able to detect this anomaly (because the key = would've >> been encrypted by the first device's private key, and hence = decryption >> should fail on the second device) and thus the "duplicate" symmetric >> key would be discarded. >=20 > Hmm, I still don't see how this is supposed to work. Are you > suggesting special treatment for this list entry by the edit-config / > copy-config operations? I strongly object to such a hack, but perhaps > you meant something else? I'm unsure if I'd call it special treatment, so much as logical outcome = - see below. THIS IS THE CONFIG FROM THE FIRST DEVICE tpm-protected-key <---- name value may = differ rsa2048 base64encodedvalue=3D=3D operator-protected-key aes-256-cbc base64encodedvalue=3D=3D = tpm-protected-key base64encodedvalue=3D=3D ex-encrypted-key rsa2048 base64encodedvalue=3D=3D = operator-protected-key base64encodedvalue=3D=3D THIS IS THE CONFIG ON A SECOND DEVICE, AFTER STEP #3 tpm-protected-key <---- name value may = differ rsa2048 base64encodedvalue=3D=3D operator-protected-key aes-256-cbc base64encodedvalue=3D=3D = tpm-protected-key base64encodedvalue=3D=3D Now, when this configuration from the first device is loaded onto the = second device, one of two things might happen: 1) if the manufacturer gives the same name to each device's = TPM-protected keys (i.e., tpm-protected-key) a) (copied from ), would contain a key = having the 'key' value as the incoming key. b) this should fail, because it's not possible to change the = for a key having . 2) if the manufacturer gives unique names to the tpm-protected-keys = (i.e., key3124235234) a) (copied from ), would NOT contain a = key having the 'key' value as the incoming key. b) this should fail, because it's not possible to config a new key = having . The specific failure error isn't as interesting as knowing that it will = fail somehow, and implementations will need to handle the possibility. =20= That said, the general recommendation, which would both be correct and = avoid any potential failures, would be for the client to remove the = device-specific and operator-wide keys first, leaving just the = migratable keys in the config uploaded to the second device. >> These identities (now enumerations) are coming from the crypto-types >> module in a section maintained by my co-author from Huawei who has >> even more crypto-clue than I. My guess is that this is what they're >> called in IANA registries for historical reasons. >=20 > Ok, but you agree that "symmetric-key-algorithm" would be better, > unless there's some strong historical reason for keeping > "encryption-algorithm"? Yes, I agree, it would be best if it were called a symmetric key, as = even asymmetric keys can do encryption. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_FC2A29CE-163D-4B95-8ABF-DFBB5DC3B552 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Martin,

2) privileged admin = copies manufacturer generated key from
<operational> = to <running>

The device = could also store this key (or rather just the name) in its
factory configuration.

Sure, but only if it's immutable.

No I disagree.  If an admin = can create it, it could be part of the
factory default = config, for convenience.  A user with the right access
can delete it from the config, just as if it had been created = by an
admin.
Based on your later comments, it seems that we're = more in agreement than not.  Let me rephrase, if the manufacturer = generated keys (with 'hidden-key' or 'hidden-private-key') are stored in = the factory default datastore, per draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default, = they would be read-only and hence immutable.  Now, upon that = configuration being copied into <running>, the configuration would = become editable and said keys could be removed.



I don't = think the public key and alg needs to go into the config.

Or in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it = should
NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be = ensured with
"must").  However, they must be present = in the operational state.

Okay, = but in thinking about going down that route, I'd rather use a
special enum/union type values to denote the absence of these = fields
than to mark the nodes mandatory false. =  Personally, I think it's
better to duplicate the = values into configuration as it does no harm
and it makes = them easier and more consistent to work with

I think it makes them more = difficult to work with.  Why should I be
able to = modify the public key of a hw-stored key?  It is just error
prone.

Assuming that the manufacturer generated keys are = in <factory-default> then, when copied to <running>, they = have identical values as they were in <factory-default> (i.e., all = three fields are present)



(e.g.,
clients need the public key in order to encrypt data destined = to the
device).  Really, I don't want any keys in = <operational>

If you = need the public key why is it a problem to read it from
<operational>?

It's = not, but my comment was about keys as a whole (not the key's inner = values).  The <factory-default> approach is nice because it = normalizes all key access to one approach (intended = configuration).



3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the = organization)
symmetric key using the public key from the = manufacturer generated
asymmetric key, and stores the = result (i.e., <edit-config> into
keystore.

Ok.  However, if the device = doesn't have a hidden
manufacturer-supplied key from step = 1 (no tpm), it would be useful if
the admin could install = this symmetric key so that it becomes hidden.
But that = action is no longer present in the model.

True, but it seems strange that a device would have the = ability to
store hidden keys without itself being shipped = with a hidden key.

Hasn't the = previous discussion shown that it is quite common to store
keys separate from the normal config?

My = assertion is that any device that has the ability to install "hidden" = keys surely would ship with preconfigured hidden keys that could = subsequently be used by admins to encrypt any keys they create later, = hence negating the need for the device to support a feature to install = hidden keys.


I like the new = design of this module, where all keys (but one!) are
stored = encrypted.  But that one key needs to be as protected as
possible.

Agreed.


We
could add a set of RPCs to = manage the life-cycle of hidden keys

Or perhaps state that the management of such keys are out of = scope
(for now)?

This = is my preference.  In particular, the current model defines the = ability for keys to be hidden, and specifically says "How such keys are = created is outside the scope of this module."  It is my = hope/intention to not define any module defining an ability to = create/install hidden keys, thus restricting their creation to = manufacturing-time magic and vendor-specific modules defining = proprietary RPCs.



Or does this model = *require* the device to have such a key?  If no tpm
exists, then it can exist on disk?

Not required.  For devices = that don't have hidden keys, plain old NACM
could protect = the encryption-key used to protect all the other keys in
the= configuration.  The primary benefit would still be present, = that
keys subsequently generated by the device would be = protected by the
encryption key.

I think this benefit goes away if = the encryption key itself it present
in clear text in the = config.  In this case we could as well use NACM
to = protect *all* keys.

Yes and no.  Yes, in the sense that NACM is = the ultimate protection mechanism but, no, in the sense that this fails = to have value.  Specifically, regular admins can still ask the = device to generate a key, encrypted by another key that they don't have = access to.  Similarly, regular admins can operate in = (copy/paste/reference) encrypted keys without ever being able to access = the secret data.

FWIW, in = JUNOS, the DDL/YANG modeling language has a special "secret data" = annotation that switches on logic to encrypt said data at-rest and = over-the-wire for all except users in the "super-user" class. =  JUNOS users are typically configured in the "operator" class, and = sometimes in the "read-only" class.  This is effectively the NACM = model we're discussing here, and it's been shipping for a long = time.



The = downside would be that the encryption key itself,
when = generated, could not be protected in the same way.  For such
situations, it would be recommended that this key be = installed from a
known-safe connection (i.e., via an = air-gapped system).

Perhaps = this is the "out-of-scope" that I mentioned above?

No, = this part would be best practice. That is, if one must handle private = keys in the clear, at least be sure to do so via a secure system and via = a secure network.



What is meant is that the symmetric key would be created once = on the
second device, in step (3), but because the old = encrypted symmetric
key was stored in configuration (on = the first device), when loading
the configuration here in = step (4), it is as if the symmetric key is
being created = again on the second device.  But the logic on the second
device should be able to detect this anomaly (because the key = would've
been encrypted by the first device's private key, = and hence decryption
should fail on the second device) and = thus the "duplicate" symmetric
key would be discarded.

Hmm, I still don't see how this = is supposed to work.  Are you
suggesting special = treatment for this list entry by the edit-config /
copy-config operations?  I strongly object to such a = hack, but perhaps
you meant something else?

I'm = unsure if I'd call it special treatment, so much as logical outcome - = see below.


THIS IS THE CONFIG FROM THE FIRST = DEVICE

<keystore = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-keystore">
    <asymmetric-keys>

      =   <!-- a device-unique asymmetric key -->
  =       <asymmetric-key>
    =       =   <name>tpm-protected-key</name>     =  <----  name value may differ
    =       =   <algorithm>rsa2048</algorithm>
          =   <public-key>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</public-key><= br class=3D"">          =   <hidden-private-key/>
    =     </asymmetric-key>

        <!-- operator-wide = symmetric key, protected by the device-specific key = -->
        <!-- this key must be = created for each device (i.e., via step #3) -->
  =       <symmetric-key>
    =       =   <name>operator-protected-key</name>
          =   <algorithm>aes-256-cbc</algorithm>
          =   <public-key>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</public-key><= br class=3D"">            = <encrypted-private-key>
        =       =   <asymmetric-key-ref>tpm-protected-key</asymmetric-key= -ref>
              =   <value>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</value>
          =   </encrypted-private-key>
    =     </symmetric-key>

        <!-- a migratable = key, protected by the operator-wide key -->
  =       <asymmetric-key>
  =         =   <name>ex-encrypted-key</name>
 =         =   <algorithm>rsa2048</algorithm>
          =   <public-key>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</public-key><= br class=3D"">            = <encrypted-private-key>
        =       =   <symmetric-key-ref>operator-protected-key</symmetric-= key-ref>
            =     <value>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</value>
          =   </encrypted-private-key>
    =     </asymmetric-key>

 =   </asymmetric-keys>
</keystore>


THIS = IS THE CONFIG ON A SECOND DEVICE, AFTER STEP #3

<keystore = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-keystore">
    <asymmetric-keys>

      =   <!-- a device-unique asymmetric key -->
  =       <asymmetric-key>
    =       =   <name>tpm-protected-key</name>     =  <---- name value may differ
    =       =   <algorithm>rsa2048</algorithm>
          =   <public-key>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</public-key><= br class=3D"">          =   <hidden-private-key/>
    =     </asymmetric-key>

        <!-- operator-wide = symmetric key, protected by the device-specific key = -->
        <!-- this key must be = created for each device (i.e., via step #3) -->
  =       <symmetric-key>
    =       =   <name>operator-protected-key</name>
          =   <algorithm>aes-256-cbc</algorithm>
          =   <public-key>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</public-key><= br class=3D"">            = <encrypted-private-key>
        =       =   <asymmetric-key-ref>tpm-protected-key</asymmetric-key= -ref>
              =   <value>base64encodedvalue=3D=3D</value>
          =   </encrypted-private-key>
    =     </symmetric-key>

    </asymmetric-keys>
</keystore>


Now, when this = configuration from the first device is loaded onto the second device, = one of two things might happen:

  1) if the manufacturer gives the same = name to each device's TPM-protected keys (i.e., = <name>tpm-protected-key</name>)

      a) <running> (copied = from <factory-default>), would contain a key having the 'key' = value as the incoming key.
      b) this = should fail, because it's not possible to change = the <public-key> for a key having = <hidden-private-key/>.

  2) if the manufacturer gives unique = names to the tpm-protected-keys (i.e., = <name>key3124235234</name>)

      a) <running> = (copied from <factory-default>), would NOT contain a key having = the 'key' value as the incoming key.
      b) = this should fail, because it's not possible to config a new key having = <hidden-private-key/>.

The= specific failure error isn't as interesting as knowing that it will = fail somehow, and implementations will need to handle the possibility. =   

That said, the general = recommendation, which would both be correct and avoid any potential = failures, would be for the client to remove the device-specific and = operator-wide keys first, leaving just the migratable keys in the config = uploaded to the second device.




These identities (now = enumerations) are coming from the crypto-types
module in a = section maintained by my co-author from Huawei who has
even = more crypto-clue than I.  My guess is that this is what they're
called in IANA registries for historical reasons.

Ok, but you agree that = "symmetric-key-algorithm" would be better,
unless there's = some strong historical reason for keeping
"encryption-algorithm"?

Yes, I = agree, it would be best if it were called a symmetric key, as even = asymmetric keys can do encryption.


Kent // = contributor

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YII= --_004_BYAPR11MB2631D3A01E398ADDBB294588B5FC0BYAPR11MB2631namp_-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:50:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A371120143; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9w3r9WmlNFKH; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) 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anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 132F1300A8D8AA; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:50:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:50:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: "Fengchong (frank)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Message-ID: <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "Fengchong (frank)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:50:21 -0000 Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unified view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in situations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. /js On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Frank, >=20 > Pre NMDA: >=20 > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like <= candidate> and that you can ignore for the purposes of this dis= cussion. > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes t= hat are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Crw= =E2=80=9D in your tree output below). > * The system may also have some operational state data that is mark= ed as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80=9D i= n your tree output below). >=20 > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datastore. > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datas= tore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can be app= lied to return a subset of the data. >=20 > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system crea= ted configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the con= figuration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned in= and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it would = not. Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different w= ays. >=20 > Generally, I think that should only contain the configuration= explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this means= that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created configu= ration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false copy of e= very config true node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the or= iginal IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by NM= DA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structure = =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created config= uration data). >=20 > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean way = without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. >=20 > Hopefully this helps clarify. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. >=20 > ________________________________ > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8= Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > [Company_logo] > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com= > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > ________________________________ > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB=B6= =E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D=E5= =AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9=80= =81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87=BA= =E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB=BB= =E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E4= =BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5=88= =86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88=96= =E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94=99= =E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8=E7= =AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7=9F= =A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE= =E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from H= UAWEI, which > is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above= . Any use of the > information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to,= total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the i= ntended > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please= notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97=A5= 9:59 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >; netmod@ietf.org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan >; Zhangwei (SS) > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation >=20 > Hi all, > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > 7.7. >=20 > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state >=20 > information. > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. >=20 > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user= , but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If clien= t issues get operation to retrieve this node, > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols SHO= ULD be returned? > For example: > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by rout= ing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: >=20 >=20 >=20 > +--rw ribs >=20 > +--rw rib* [name] >=20 > +--rw name string >=20 > +--rw address-family? identityref >=20 > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? >=20 > +--ro routes >=20 > | +--ro route* >=20 > | ... >=20 > +---x active-route >=20 > | +---w input >=20 > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address >=20 > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address >=20 > | +--ro output >=20 > | ... >=20 > +--rw description? string >=20 >=20 >=20 > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA de= vice, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? >=20 > Another associated question: If client issued get-config operati= on from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be retu= rned? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:54:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3480120188; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqH00qoKSQSH; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate 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netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE6E120096; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:07:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8VCL-UyYaI5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EABA91200B5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 509BE2D612A13BC11A45; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:21 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:20 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:07:12 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5D//4J1AP//d2mw Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:07:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQg?= =?utf-8?q?_operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:07:26 -0000 U2hvdWxkIHdlIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBnZXQgb3BlcmF0aW9uPyBMaWtlIHRo aXMsIGdldCBvcGVyYXRpb24gY2FuIHJldHJpZXZlIGFsbCBydW5uaW5nIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIGRh dGEgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHJ1bm5pbmcgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiwgc3lzdGVtIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24u DQpPdGhlcndpc2UsIHdlIGhhdmUgbm8gd2F5IHRvIGdldCB0aGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gb2Ygc3lz 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551B71201C5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:20:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0FypDDx7tWJu; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B88B0120143; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with 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(demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id z1WTt0i7vBIj; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCB5520126; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:02 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id B8CBC300A8D99C; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:01 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Fengchong (frank)" CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Message-ID: <20190628092001.koixu7ea6dfew6k3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Fengchong (frank)" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQg?= =?utf-8?q?_operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:20:08 -0000 The operation has limitations. Data elements with the same key can be different in and and merging them together simply does not work. The workaround is to duplicate data models or to move to NMDA. NMDA may seem initially costly but is getting cheaper the larger your collection of data models grows. /js On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 09:07:12AM +0000, Fengchong (frank) wrote: > Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operat= ion can retrieve all running operational data including running configura= tion, system configuration. > Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled d= ata according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy )= unless we implement NMDA. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 16:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) ; net= conf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unifi= ed view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in s= ituations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Frank, > >=20 > > Pre NMDA: > >=20 > > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like= and that you can ignore for the purposes of this d= iscussion. > > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes= that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9C= rw=E2=80=9D in your tree output below). > > * The system may also have some operational state data that is ma= rked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80=9D= in your tree output below). > >=20 > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datastore. > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the dat= astore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can be a= pplied to return a subset of the data. > >=20 > > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system cr= eated configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the c= onfiguration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned = in and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it woul= d not. Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different= ways. > >=20 > > Generally, I think that should only contain the configurati= on explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this mea= ns that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created confi= guration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false copy of= every config true node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the = original IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by = NMDA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structur= e =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created conf= iguration data). > >=20 > > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean wa= y without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. > >=20 > > Hopefully this helps clarify. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Rob > >=20 > >=20 > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. > >=20 > > ________________________________ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > > =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.c= om > > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > > ________________________________ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from= =20 > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address= =20 > > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any=20 > > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure,=20 > > reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error,=20 > > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > >=20 > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >;=20 > > netmod@ietf.org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan=20 > > >; Zhangwei= =20 > > (SS) > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > > 7.7. > >=20 > > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state > >=20 > > information. > > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. > >=20 > > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by us= er, but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If cli= ent issues get operation to retrieve this node, > > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols S= HOULD be returned? > > For example: > > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by ro= uting protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > +--rw ribs > >=20 > > +--rw rib* [name] > >=20 > > +--rw name string > >=20 > > +--rw address-family? identityref > >=20 > > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? > >=20 > > +--ro routes > >=20 > > | +--ro route* > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +---x active-route > >=20 > > | +---w input > >=20 > > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address > >=20 > > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address > >=20 > > | +--ro output > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +--rw description? string > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA = device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? > >=20 > > Another associated question: If client issued get-config opera= tion from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be re= turned? > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 02:31:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C143F1201D8; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wlBKO6pya1_b; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3E201201D6; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 302EECA2C198207C1512; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:31:18 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.212) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:31:15 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:29:16 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQgIG9wZXJhdGlvbg==?= Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5D//4J1AP//d2mwgACQ6YD//3gFMA== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:29:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED60DE@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628092001.koixu7ea6dfew6k3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190628092001.koixu7ea6dfew6k3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] 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b=kL6U/Wpw3NnzCd8zcDqeX5GH1/9+3kYQiGqZPMITQ2VzlIne+jgYD2+OS7klA0mWZYF94EGWreOcs5DQ0QA1SWM21FzaB42/XfZwWqZWJmlZKdNBN0z1eialsaXH/A8FCJ1S9lDEWj4wXrK8IfR8wF16RIX0u5Wnb1+nfNDnlc8= Received: from BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.227.28) by BYAPR11MB3846.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (20.178.239.206) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2032.17; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:32:48 +0000 Received: from BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ed99:b6a8:d6fb:5045]) by BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ed99:b6a8:d6fb:5045%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2008.018; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:32:48 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: "Fengchong (frank)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5AAAM+k8AAAh5VQAACDk+AAADh4IA== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:32:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: 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"netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5AAARItAAAAl7IAAAAVygA= Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:18:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.34] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 86a44f53-2be7-47f0-3927-08d6fba98dc9 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.27, xch-aln-017.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:33:25 -0000 SGkgRnJhbmssDQoNCllvdSBjYW4ndCBqdXN0IGNoYW5nZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBpbiBSRkNzLiAg SXQgYnJlYWtzIGFsbCBleGlzdGluZyBjbGllbnRzL3NlcnZlcnMuICBCZXNpZGVzLCB3aGF0IHlv dSBzdWdnZXN0IGRvZXNuJ3QgcmVhbGx5IHdvcmsgKHBhdGggY2xhc2hlcyBiZXR3ZWVuIGNvbmZp Z3VyYXRpb24gYW5kIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIHN0YXRlKSwgdW5sZXNzIHlvdSByZXR1cm4gdHdvIHRy ZWVzIC4uLiB3aGljaCBzdGFydHMgdG8gbG9vayBleHRyZW1lbHkgc2ltaWxhciB0byB0aGUgTk1E QSBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgLi4uDQoNCklFVEYgaGFzIGFscmVhZHkgZXhwbG9yZWQgdGhpcyBwcm9i bGVtIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbHJlYWR5IGEgcHVibGlzaGVkIElFVEYgc29sdXRpb24gdG8gdGhl 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQo+ID4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAtLSANCj4gSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVy ICAgICAgICAgICBKYWNvYnMgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBCcmVtZW4gZ0dtYkgNCj4gUGhvbmU6ICs0OSA0 MjEgMjAwIDM1ODcgICAgICAgICBDYW1wdXMgUmluZyAxIHwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuIHwgR2VybWFu eQ0KPiBGYXg6ICAgKzQ5IDQyMSAyMDAgMzEwMyAgICAgICAgIDxodHRwczovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMt dW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQoNCi0tIA0KSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyICAgICAgICAgICBK YWNvYnMgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBCcmVtZW4gZ0dtYkgNClBob25lOiArNDkgNDIxIDIwMCAzNTg3ICAg ICAgICAgQ2FtcHVzIFJpbmcgMSB8IDI4NzU5IEJyZW1lbiB8IEdlcm1hbnkNCkZheDogICArNDkg NDIxIDIwMCAzMTAzICAgICAgICAgPGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmphY29icy11bml2ZXJzaXR5LmRlLz4N Cg== From nobody Fri Jun 28 05:22:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4AE12009E for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:22:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUwVGOBtbnFm for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249AF120058 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BFAE1AE0351; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:22:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:22:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190628.142225.1179923611746773969.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016b9b765508-5742ab05-ca2b-4d94-b040-75a2eed52d42-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190627.173012.789366833379165040.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b9b765508-5742ab05-ca2b-4d94-b040-75a2eed52d42-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:22:29 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Martin, > > >>>> 2) privileged admin copies manufacturer generated key from > >>>> to > >>> > >>> The device could also store this key (or rather just the name) in its > >>> factory configuration. > >> > >> Sure, but only if it's immutable. > > > > No I disagree. If an admin can create it, it could be part of the > > factory default config, for convenience. A user with the right access > > can delete it from the config, just as if it had been created by an > > admin. > > Based on your later comments, it seems that we're more in agreement > than not. Good! > Let me rephrase, if the manufacturer generated keys (with > 'hidden-key' or 'hidden-private-key') are stored in the factory > default datastore, per draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default, they would > be read-only and hence immutable. Well, I wouldn't express this as "the key is immutable", but rather that the factory defaults configuration datastore is immutable / read-only. > Now, upon that configuration being > copied into , the configuration would become editable and > said keys could be removed. > > > > >>> I don't think the public key and alg needs to go into the config. > >> > >>> Or in general, if the key is configured as hidden, I think it should > >>> NOT have a public key and alg in the config (can be ensured with > >>> "must"). However, they must be present in the operational state. > >> > >> Okay, but in thinking about going down that route, I'd rather use a > >> special enum/union type values to denote the absence of these fields > >> than to mark the nodes mandatory false. Personally, I think it's > >> better to duplicate the values into configuration as it does no harm > >> and it makes them easier and more consistent to work with > > > > I think it makes them more difficult to work with. Why should I be > > able to modify the public key of a hw-stored key? It is just error > > prone. > > Assuming that the manufacturer generated keys are in > then, when copied to , they have identical values as they > were in (i.e., all three fields are present) It is enough if just the name and "hidden" enum is present in factory-defaults, and thus just these fields are copied to running. > >> (e.g., > >> clients need the public key in order to encrypt data destined to the > >> device). Really, I don't want any keys in > > > > If you need the public key why is it a problem to read it from > > ? > > It's not, but my comment was about keys as a whole (not the key's > inner values). The approach is nice because it > normalizes all key access to one approach (intended configuration). > > > > >>>> 3) privileged admin encrypts a well-known (secret to the organization) > >>>> symmetric key using the public key from the manufacturer generated > >>>> asymmetric key, and stores the result (i.e., into > >>>> keystore. > >>> > >>> Ok. However, if the device doesn't have a hidden > >>> manufacturer-supplied key from step 1 (no tpm), it would be useful if > >>> the admin could install this symmetric key so that it becomes hidden. > >>> But that action is no longer present in the model. > >> > >> True, but it seems strange that a device would have the ability to > >> store hidden keys without itself being shipped with a hidden key. > > > > Hasn't the previous discussion shown that it is quite common to store > > keys separate from the normal config? > > My assertion is that any device that has the ability to install > "hidden" keys surely would ship with preconfigured hidden keys that > could subsequently be used by admins to encrypt any keys they create > later, hence negating the need for the device to support a feature to > install hidden keys. Ok. This makes sense. > > I like the new design of this module, where all keys (but one!) are > > stored encrypted. But that one key needs to be as protected as > > possible. > > Agreed. > > > > >> We > >> could add a set of RPCs to manage the life-cycle of hidden keys > > > > Or perhaps state that the management of such keys are out of scope > > (for now)? > > This is my preference. In particular, the current model defines the > ability for keys to be hidden, and specifically says "How such keys > are created is outside the scope of this module." It is my > hope/intention to not define any module defining an ability to > create/install hidden keys, thus restricting their creation to > manufacturing-time magic and vendor-specific modules defining > proprietary RPCs. Ok! > >>> Or does this model *require* the device to have such a key? If no tpm > >>> exists, then it can exist on disk? > >> > >> Not required. For devices that don't have hidden keys, plain old NACM > >> could protect the encryption-key used to protect all the other keys in > >> the configuration. The primary benefit would still be present, that > >> keys subsequently generated by the device would be protected by the > >> encryption key. > > > > I think this benefit goes away if the encryption key itself it present > > in clear text in the config. In this case we could as well use NACM > > to protect *all* keys. > > Yes and no. Yes, in the sense that NACM is the ultimate protection > mechanism but, no, in the sense that this fails to have value. > Specifically, regular admins can still ask the device to generate a > key, encrypted by another key that they don't have access to. > Similarly, regular admins can operate in (copy/paste/reference) > encrypted keys without ever being able to access the secret data. > > FWIW, in JUNOS, the DDL/YANG modeling language has a special "secret > data" annotation that switches on logic to encrypt said data at-rest > and over-the-wire for all except users in the "super-user" class. > JUNOS users are typically configured in the "operator" class, and > sometimes in the "read-only" class. This is effectively the NACM > model we're discussing here, and it's been shipping for a long time. > > > > >> The downside would be that the encryption key itself, > >> when generated, could not be protected in the same way. For such > >> situations, it would be recommended that this key be installed from a > >> known-safe connection (i.e., via an air-gapped system). > > > > Perhaps this is the "out-of-scope" that I mentioned above? > > No, this part would be best practice. That is, if one must handle > private keys in the clear, at least be sure to do so via a secure > system and via a secure network. > > > > >> What is meant is that the symmetric key would be created once on the > >> second device, in step (3), but because the old encrypted symmetric > >> key was stored in configuration (on the first device), when loading > >> the configuration here in step (4), it is as if the symmetric key is > >> being created again on the second device. But the logic on the second > >> device should be able to detect this anomaly (because the key would've > >> been encrypted by the first device's private key, and hence decryption > >> should fail on the second device) and thus the "duplicate" symmetric > >> key would be discarded. > > > > Hmm, I still don't see how this is supposed to work. Are you > > suggesting special treatment for this list entry by the edit-config / > > copy-config operations? I strongly object to such a hack, but perhaps > > you meant something else? > > I'm unsure if I'd call it special treatment, so much as logical > outcome - see below. > > > THIS IS THE CONFIG FROM THE FIRST DEVICE > > > > > > > tpm-protected-key <---- name value may differ > rsa2048 > base64encodedvalue== > > > > > > > operator-protected-key > aes-256-cbc > base64encodedvalue== > > tpm-protected-key > base64encodedvalue== > > > > > > ex-encrypted-key > rsa2048 > base64encodedvalue== > > operator-protected-key > base64encodedvalue== > > > > > > > > THIS IS THE CONFIG ON A SECOND DEVICE, AFTER STEP #3 > > > > > > > tpm-protected-key <---- name value may differ > rsa2048 > base64encodedvalue== > > > > > > > operator-protected-key > aes-256-cbc > base64encodedvalue== > > tpm-protected-key > base64encodedvalue== > > > > > > > > Now, when this configuration from the first device is loaded onto the > second device, one of two things might happen: > > 1) if the manufacturer gives the same name to each device's > TPM-protected keys (i.e., tpm-protected-key) > > a) (copied from ), would contain a key > having the 'key' value as the incoming key. > b) this should fail, because it's not possible to change the > for a key having . This would be special treatment. And IMO it is not needed; if the public key and alg are not present in the config this is not an issue. > 2) if the manufacturer gives unique names to the tpm-protected-keys > (i.e., key3124235234) > > a) (copied from ), would NOT contain a key > having the 'key' value as the incoming key. > b) this should fail, because it's not possible to config a new key > having . For this use case I think it is a prerequisite that the key has the same name. > The specific failure error isn't as interesting as knowing that it > will fail somehow, and implementations will need to handle the > possibility. > > That said, the general recommendation, which would both be correct and > avoid any potential failures, would be for the client to remove the > device-specific and operator-wide keys first, leaving just the > migratable keys in the config uploaded to the second device. THIS IS THE CONFIG FROM THE FIRST DEVICE (A) tpm-protected-key operator-protected-key aes-256-cbc tpm-protected-key base64encodedvalue-1== ex-encrypted-key rsa2048 base64encodedvalue-2== operator-protected-key base64encodedvalue-3== THIS IS THE CONFIG ON A SECOND DEVICE, AFTER STEP #3 (B) tpm-protected-key operator-protected-key aes-256-cbc tpm-protected-key base64encodedvalue-4== If we edit-config (A) into (B), we'll trash "operator-protected-key"; specifically its "encrypted-private-key/value" leaf must not be changed. If we remove "operator-protected-key" from (A) we can then merge the rest of (A) into (B). So this requires the client to pacth the config a bit. Perhaps this is ok. > >> These identities (now enumerations) are coming from the crypto-types > >> module in a section maintained by my co-author from Huawei who has > >> even more crypto-clue than I. My guess is that this is what they're > >> called in IANA registries for historical reasons. > > > > Ok, but you agree that "symmetric-key-algorithm" would be better, > > unless there's some strong historical reason for keeping > > "encryption-algorithm"? > > Yes, I agree, it would be best if it were called a symmetric key, as > even asymmetric keys can do encryption. Ok, let's have that discussion in the crypto-types thread. /martin From nobody Fri Jun 28 07:09:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A863412017D; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:09:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CPL-2iAp_TqM; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDAA312012B; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A7659855DBD9E47957C5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:09:14 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.213) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:09:14 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:06:54 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangshouchuan , Qin Wu , Yangang , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5D//4J1AP//d2mwgACQbAD//yzvQA== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQg?= =?utf-8?q?_operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:09:21 -0000 SGkgUm9iLA0KICAgIEkgdGhpbmsgSUVURiBzb2x1dGlvbjogbWlncmF0ZSB0byBOTURBIGlzIHVu 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ICAgIDxodHRwczovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQo= From nobody Fri Jun 28 07:36:11 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b9e83cb7e-2fe6c750-56d9-4e46-8b4a-2ef94a67c2c0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C34120123 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BZL6of_dybpX for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F13C1200C5 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:36:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561732566; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=hMRBBNGqQoOEB4EL+3Gi9hT3j/e6gAyGUaovloXFVNQ=; b=SnF4bUphA++Rmsj28k8z6krSjvoHzUKptyETcqB8EVtuU0MvxNKvgSpwr920vRms FA7QNKc1SH8yPIJxRbhegKi8cx8pLo9H/4NIGqUsHPopMSzePeOQ18tqXfdSswrsgtz yMr/UFfFSh+n/7pMX3yLuTgD5LpP/2wN7ww2sPIc= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b9e83cb7e-2fe6c750-56d9-4e46-8b4a-2ef94a67c2c0-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_51CB4354-33B5-4E34-B8B3-C85487FAAEEF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190628.142225.1179923611746773969.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Martin Bjorklund References: <0100016b962706ee-c3b245b6-a9ad-45cb-a7a2-b9fe44dd33c3-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190627.173012.789366833379165040.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016b9b765508-5742ab05-ca2b-4d94-b040-75a2eed52d42-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190628.142225.1179923611746773969.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.28-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_51CB4354-33B5-4E34-B8B3-C85487FAAEEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > It is enough if just the name and "hidden" enum is present in > factory-defaults, and thus just these fields are copied to running. Maybe. The public key and algorithm must be available somehow. I know = that you're pushing for them to be pulled from , which I'm = okay with in theory, but in doing so you're implying that the 3-tuple = values should not be mandatory true, which is a show stopper for me. A = possible compromise would be to let the algorithm and public-key nodes = also take values like . But I feel even this is = unnecessary, as explained next. You seem to worry about special case handling, but then how to you = propose the device defend against the client setting a completely = different set of new/different 3-tuple values for the tpm-protected-key? = My view is that the device will detect that the key is a = system-configured and (unlike other NMDA scenarios) must not let = configuration overwrite it. That sounds like special handing to me and = my view is, if a device can do that, then it can also detect/prevent = modification to any of the three values, hence why I feel there is not = need to hide or shroud the algorithm and public-key values in the = configuration. >> Now, when this configuration from the first device is loaded onto the >> second device, one of two things might happen: >>=20 >> 1) if the manufacturer gives the same name to each device's >> TPM-protected keys (i.e., tpm-protected-key) >>=20 >> a) (copied from ), would contain a = key >> having the 'key' value as the incoming key. >> b) this should fail, because it's not possible to change the >> for a key having . >=20 > This would be special treatment. And IMO it is not needed; if the > public key and alg are not present in the config this is not an > issue. Even if the public key and alg fields are removed, it merge attempt = would still fail, specifically, device B would fail to decrypt the = operator-protected-key encrypted by device A. >> 2) if the manufacturer gives unique names to the tpm-protected-keys >> (i.e., key3124235234) >>=20 >> a) (copied from ), would NOT contain = a key >> having the 'key' value as the incoming key. >> b) this should fail, because it's not possible to config a new = key >> having . >=20 > For this use case I think it is a prerequisite that the key has the > same name. Why? I don't know of a technical reason. Maybe you mean to simplify = installation guides, but there are likely not-too-complicated ways to = deal with that. Regardless, the same failure mentioned previously (that = device B would fail to decrypt the operator-protected-key encrypted by = device A) would be present. >> The specific failure error isn't as interesting as knowing that it >> will fail somehow, and implementations will need to handle the >> possibility. >>=20 >> That said, the general recommendation, which would both be correct = and >> avoid any potential failures, would be for the client to remove the >> device-specific and operator-wide keys first, leaving just the >> migratable keys in the config uploaded to the second device. >=20 > THIS IS THE CONFIG FROM THE FIRST DEVICE (A) >=20 > > >=20 > > > tpm-protected-key > > >=20 > > > > operator-protected-key > aes-256-cbc > > tpm-protected-key > base64encodedvalue-1=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > ex-encrypted-key > rsa2048 > base64encodedvalue-2=3D=3D > > operator-protected-key > base64encodedvalue-3=3D=3D > > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 > THIS IS THE CONFIG ON A SECOND DEVICE, AFTER STEP #3 (B) >=20 > > >=20 > > > tpm-protected-key > > >=20 > > > > operator-protected-key > aes-256-cbc > > tpm-protected-key > base64encodedvalue-4=3D=3D > > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 > If we edit-config (A) into (B), we'll trash "operator-protected-key"; > specifically its "encrypted-private-key/value" leaf must not be > changed. >=20 > If we remove "operator-protected-key" from (A) we can then merge the > rest of (A) into (B). >=20 > So this requires the client to pacth the config a bit. Perhaps this > is ok. Okay, we agree that the client should patch the config from device A = prior to merging it into device B. You feel that just the = operator-protected-key can be removed, while I feel that both the = tpm-protected-key and operator-protected-key keys should be removed. My = preference for removing both is because is mimics normal configuration = updates occurring throughout the device's life. That is, the CRUD = operations would always be on the "ex-encrypted-key" keys, so just = having these keys in the configuration loaded from device A would be = consistent. Kent // configuration --Apple-Mail=_51CB4354-33B5-4E34-B8B3-C85487FAAEEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
It is enough if just the name and "hidden" enum is present = in
factory-defaults, and thus just these fields are copied = to running.

Maybe.  The public key and algorithm must be = available somehow.  I know that you're pushing for them to be = pulled from <operational>, which I'm okay with in theory, but in = doing so you're implying that the 3-tuple values should not be mandatory = true, which is a show stopper for me.  A possible compromise would = be to let the algorithm and public-key nodes also take values like = <hidden-value/>.  But I feel even this is unnecessary, as = explained next.

You seem to worry = about special case handling, but then how to you propose the device = defend against the client setting a completely different set of = new/different 3-tuple values for the tpm-protected-key?  My view is = that the device will detect that the key is a system-configured and = (unlike other NMDA scenarios) must not let configuration overwrite it. =  That sounds like special handing to me and my view is, if a device = can do that, then it can also detect/prevent modification to any of the = three values, hence why I feel there is not need to hide or shroud the = algorithm and public-key values in the configuration.




Now, when this configuration from the first device is loaded = onto the
second device, one of two things might happen:

 1) if the manufacturer gives the same = name to each device's
 TPM-protected keys (i.e., = <name>tpm-protected-key</name>)

=      a) <running> (copied from = <factory-default>), would contain a key
=      having the 'key' value as the incoming = key.
     b) this should fail, = because it's not possible to change the
=      <public-key> for a key having = <hidden-private-key/>.

This would be special treatment.  And IMO it is not = needed; if the
public key and alg are not present in the = config this is not an
issue.

Even = if the public key and alg fields are removed, it merge attempt would = still fail, specifically, device B would fail to decrypt the = operator-protected-key encrypted by device A.



 2) if the = manufacturer gives unique names to the tpm-protected-keys
=  (i.e., <name>key3124235234</name>)

     a) <running> (copied = from <factory-default>), would NOT contain a key
=      having the 'key' value as the incoming = key.
     b) this should fail, = because it's not possible to config a new key
=      having <hidden-private-key/>.

For this use case I think it is a = prerequisite that the key has the
same name.

Why? =  I don't know of a technical reason.   Maybe you mean to = simplify installation guides, but there are likely not-too-complicated = ways to deal with that.  Regardless, the same failure mentioned = previously (that device B would fail to decrypt the = operator-protected-key encrypted by device A) would be = present.



The specific failure = error isn't as interesting as knowing that it
will fail = somehow, and implementations will need to handle the
possibility.

That said, the = general recommendation, which would both be correct and
avoid any potential failures, would be for the client to = remove the
device-specific and operator-wide keys first, = leaving just the
migratable keys in the config uploaded to = the second device.

THIS IS THE = CONFIG FROM THE FIRST DEVICE (A)

<keystore= xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-keystore">
=    <asymmetric-keys>

=        <!-- a device-unique = asymmetric key -->
=        <asymmetric-key>
=            <name= >tpm-protected-key</name>
=            <hidd= en-private-key/>
=        </asymmetric-key>

=        <!-- operator-wide = symmetric key, protected by the device-specific key
=        -->
=        <!-- this key must be = created for each device (i.e., via step #3) -->
=        <symmetric-key>
=            <name= >operator-protected-key</name>
=            <algo= rithm>aes-256-cbc</algorithm>
=            <encr= ypted-key>
=             &n= bsp;  <asymmetric-key>tpm-protected-key</asymmetric-key= >
=             &n= bsp;  <value>base64encodedvalue-1=3D=3D</value>
=            </enc= rypted-private-key>
=        </symmetric-key>

=        <!-- a migratable key, = protected by the operator-wide key -->
=        <asymmetric-key>
=            <name= >ex-encrypted-key</name>
=            <algo= rithm>rsa2048</algorithm>
=            <publ= ic-key>base64encodedvalue-2=3D=3D</public-key>
=            <encr= ypted-private-key>
=             &n= bsp;  <symmetric-key>operator-protected-key</symmetric-= key>
=             &n= bsp;  <value>base64encodedvalue-3=3D=3D</value>
=            </enc= rypted-private-key>
=        </asymmetric-key>

   </asymmetric-keys>
</keystore>


THIS IS THE CONFIG ON A SECOND DEVICE, AFTER STEP #3 (B)

<keystore = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-keystore">
=    <asymmetric-keys>

=        <!-- a device-unique = asymmetric key -->
=        <asymmetric-key>
=            <name= >tpm-protected-key</name>
=            <hidd= en-private-key/>
=        </asymmetric-key>

=        <!-- operator-wide = symmetric key, protected by the device-specific key
=        -->
=        <!-- this key must be = created for each device (i.e., via step #3) -->
=        <symmetric-key>
=            <name= >operator-protected-key</name>
=            <algo= rithm>aes-256-cbc</algorithm>
=            <encr= ypted-private-key>
=             &n= bsp;  <asymmetric-key>tpm-protected-key</asymmetric-key= >
=             &n= bsp;  <value>base64encodedvalue-4=3D=3D</value>
=            </enc= rypted-private-key>
=        </symmetric-key>

   </asymmetric-keys>
</keystore>


If we edit-config (A) into (B), we'll trash = "operator-protected-key";
specifically its = "encrypted-private-key/value" leaf must not be
changed.

If we remove "operator-protected-key" from (A) = we can then merge the
rest of (A) into (B).

So this requires the client to pacth the = config a bit.  Perhaps this
is ok.

Okay, = we agree that the client should patch the config from device A =  prior to merging it into device B.   You feel that just the = operator-protected-key can be removed, while I feel that both the = tpm-protected-key and operator-protected-key keys should be removed. =  My preference for removing both is because is mimics normal = configuration updates occurring throughout the device's life.  That = is, the CRUD operations would always be on the "ex-encrypted-key" keys, = so just having these keys in the configuration loaded from device A = would be consistent.



Kent // = configuration



= --Apple-Mail=_51CB4354-33B5-4E34-B8B3-C85487FAAEEF-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 08:03:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60D81203CD; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XgJ5DtFPQQnP; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C537120123; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C99E182C; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id BUkLeGlllFqr; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB2020128; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id zFrX-cmVc0Kf; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBF4B20126; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:42 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id AFA1C300A8DED8; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:41 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Fengchong (frank)" CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangshouchuan , Qin Wu , Yangang , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" Message-ID: <20190628150241.fksggvluvkgm57wx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Fengchong (frank)" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangshouchuan , Qin Wu , Yangang , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQg?= =?utf-8?q?_operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:02:54 -0000 Frank, if the simplistic model behind NETCONF's or RESTCONF's unified view on the datastores does not work for you, you have to invest in a proper solution. Every solution addressing the limitation has costs. There is no free lunch. /js On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 02:06:54PM +0000, Fengchong (frank) wrote: > Hi Rob, > I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The cost of = migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates to NM= DA, the time will be long. > This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry.=20 > Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ contro= ller or client tools may not support NMDA client.=20 > A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has no way = to retrieve system-controlled data. >=20 > Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable,= because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, th= is is not friendly to the client or the server. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco= .com]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 17:18 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) ; Juergen Schoenwaelder > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Hi Frank, >=20 > You can't just change definitions in RFCs. It breaks all existing clie= nts/servers. Besides, what you suggest doesn't really work (path clashes= between configuration and operational state), unless you return two tree= s ... which starts to look extremely similar to the NMDA architecture ... >=20 > IETF has already explored this problem and there is already a published= IETF solution to the problem that you describe: Migrate to NMDA. The NM= DA architecture has many other benefits as well (E.g. allows for templati= ng, inactive configuration, dynamic configuration, consistent OIR handlin= g). >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Fengchong (frank) > Sent: 28 June 2019 10:07 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; Rob W= ilton (rwilton) > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operat= ion can retrieve all running operational data including running configura= tion, system configuration. > Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled d= ata according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy )= unless we implement NMDA. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 16:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) ; net= conf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unifi= ed view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in s= ituations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Frank, > >=20 > > Pre NMDA: > >=20 > > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like= and that you can ignore for the purposes of this d= iscussion. > > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes= that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9C= rw=E2=80=9D in your tree output below). > > * The system may also have some operational state data that is ma= rked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80=9D= in your tree output below). > >=20 > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datastore. > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the dat= astore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can be a= pplied to return a subset of the data. > >=20 > > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system cr= eated configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the c= onfiguration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned = in and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it woul= d not. Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different= ways. > >=20 > > Generally, I think that should only contain the configurati= on explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this mea= ns that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created confi= guration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false copy of= every config true node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the = original IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by = NMDA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structur= e =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created conf= iguration data). > >=20 > > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean wa= y without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. > >=20 > > Hopefully this helps clarify. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Rob > >=20 > >=20 > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. > >=20 > > ________________________________ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > > =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.c= om > > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > > ________________________________ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from= =20 > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address= =20 > > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any=20 > > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure,=20 > > reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error,=20 > > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > >=20 > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >; > > netmod@ietf.org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan > > >; Zhangwei > > (SS) > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > > 7.7. > >=20 > > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state > >=20 > > information. > > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. > >=20 > > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by us= er, but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If cli= ent issues get operation to retrieve this node, > > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols S= HOULD be returned? > > For example: > > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by ro= uting protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > +--rw ribs > >=20 > > +--rw rib* [name] > >=20 > > +--rw name string > >=20 > > +--rw address-family? identityref > >=20 > > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? > >=20 > > +--ro routes > >=20 > > | +--ro route* > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +---x active-route > >=20 > > | +---w input > >=20 > > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address > >=20 > > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address > >=20 > > | +--ro output > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +--rw description? string > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA = device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? > >=20 > > Another associated question: If client issued get-config opera= tion from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be re= turned? > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 08:05:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E4CE1203FA for ; 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Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:05:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Fengchong (frank)" Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000658b5f058c639a5d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQg?= =?utf-8?q?operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:05:30 -0000 --000000000000658b5f058c639a5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 7:09 AM Fengchong (frank) < frank.fengchong@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Rob, > I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The cost of > migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates to > NMDA, the time will be long. > This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry. > Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ > controller or client tools may not support NMDA client. > A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has no way to > retrieve system-controlled data. > > Although it would have been possible to augment the existing operation, it is much cleaner to create a new operation instead. (From standards and implementation POV). There is a significant amount of work needed to support NMDA in a server. This effort would be the same whether or was used. The protocol work is the tip of the iceberg. Updating all the instrumentation callbacks to return operational values is the real work -- and exactly the same no matter what protocol solution is used. Client complexity is mostly related to the new YANG library. Starting over on a new solution would only take longer to deploy. Andy > Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable, > because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, thi= s > is not friendly to the client or the server. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.c= om] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 = 17:18 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) ; Juergen > Schoenwaelder > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) < > zhangwei70@huawei.com> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] pls clarify get operation > > Hi Frank, > > You can't just change definitions in RFCs. It breaks all existing > clients/servers. Besides, what you suggest doesn't really work (path > clashes between configuration and operational state), unless you return t= wo > trees ... which starts to look extremely similar to the NMDA architecture > ... > > IETF has already explored this problem and there is already a published > IETF solution to the problem that you describe: Migrate to NMDA. The NMD= A > architecture has many other benefits as well (E.g. allows for templating, > inactive configuration, dynamic configuration, consistent OIR handling). > > Thanks, > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fengchong (frank) > Sent: 28 June 2019 10:07 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; Rob > Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) < > zhangwei70@huawei.com> > Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [netmod] pls clarify get operation > > Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operatio= n > can retrieve all running operational data including running configuration= , > system configuration. > Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled dat= a > according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy ) > unless we implement NMDA. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelde= r@jacobs-university.de] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 = 16:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) ; netco= nf@ietf.org; > netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation > > Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unified > view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in > situations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. > > /js > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > > > Pre NMDA: > > > > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like > and that you can ignore for the purposes of this > discussion. > > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes > that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cr= w=E2=80=9D in your tree output > below). > > * The system may also have some operational state data that is > marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80= =9D in your tree output below). > > > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the > datastore. > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the > datastore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can b= e > applied to return a subset of the data. > > > > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system > created configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the > configuration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned > in and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it woul= d not. > Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different ways. > > > > Generally, I think that should only contain the configuration > explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this means = that there > isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created configuration or ap= plied > configuration, unless you make a config false copy of every config true > node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the original IETF YANG > models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by NMDA, and also the > OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structure =E2=80=93 which a= lso > struggles to cleanly represent system created configuration data). > > > > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean way > without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. > > > > Hopefully this helps clarify. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation > > > > Hi all, > > > > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. > > > > ________________________________ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > > =E6=89=8B =E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com= > > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > > ________________________________ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address > > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any > > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, > > reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, > > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >; > > netmod@ietf.org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan > > >; Zhangwei > > (SS) > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation > > > > Hi all, > > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > > 7.7. > > > > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state > > > > information. > > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. > > > > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user= , > but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client > issues get operation to retrieve this node, > > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols > SHOULD be returned? > > For example: > > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by > routing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: > > > > > > > > +--rw ribs > > > > +--rw rib* [name] > > > > +--rw name string > > > > +--rw address-family? identityref > > > > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? > > > > +--ro routes > > > > | +--ro route* > > > > | ... > > > > +---x active-route > > > > | +---w input > > > > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address > > > > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address > > > > | +--ro output > > > > | ... > > > > +--rw description? string > > > > > > > > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA > device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? > > > > Another associated question: If client issued get-config > operation from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should = be > returned? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000658b5f058c639a5d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 7:09 AM Fengc= hong (frank) <frank.fengch= ong@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi Rob,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The co= st of migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates t= o NMDA, the time will be long.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the indus= try.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ = controller or client tools may not support NMDA client.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has n= o way to retrieve system-controlled data.



Although it would have = been possible to augment the existing <get> operation, it is much cle= aner
to create a new operation instead. (From standards and imple= mentation POV).

There is a significant amount of w= ork needed to support NMDA in a server.
This effort would be the = same whether <get> or <get-data> was used.
The protoc= ol work is the tip of the iceberg.=C2=A0 Updating all the instrumentation c= allbacks to
return operational values is the real work -- and exa= ctly the same no matter what protocol
solution is used. Client co= mplexity is mostly related to the new YANG library.

Starting over on a new solution would only take longer to deploy.


Andy


=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reaso= nable, because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover= , this is not friendly to the client or the server.
-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 17= :18
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) <frank.fengchong@huawei.com>;= Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: n= etconf@ietf.org; n= etmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) <zhangwei70@huawei.com>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] pls clarify get operation

Hi Frank,

You can't just change definitions in RFCs.=C2=A0 It breaks all existing= clients/servers.=C2=A0 Besides, what you suggest doesn't really work (= path clashes between configuration and operational state), unless you retur= n two trees ... which starts to look extremely similar to the NMDA architec= ture ...

IETF has already explored this problem and there is already a published IET= F solution to the problem that you describe: Migrate to NMDA.=C2=A0 The NMD= A architecture has many other benefits as well (E.g. allows for templating,= inactive configuration, dynamic configuration, consistent OIR handling).
Thanks,
Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Fengchong (frank) <frank.fengchong@huawei.com>
Sent: 28 June 2019 10:07
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; = Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org<= /a>; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) <zhangwei70@huawei.com>
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [netmod] pls clarify get operation

Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operation = can retrieve all running operational data including running configuration, = system configuration.
Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled data = according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy ) unles= s we implement NMDA.
-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@j= acobs-university.de]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 16= :50
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) <frank.fengchong@huawei.com>; netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwe= i (SS) <zhang= wei70@huawei.com>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation

Yes, both the NETCONF <get> operation and the RESTCONF GET on the uni= fied view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in s= ituations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA.

/js

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> Pre NMDA:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 =C2=A0You have a the <running> datastore, al= ong with some others like <candidate> and <startup> that you ca= n ignore for the purposes of this discussion.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 =C2=A0The <running> datastore can only conta= ins data for schema nodes that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D = in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Crw=E2=80=9D in your tree output below).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 =C2=A0The system may also have some operational st= ate data that is marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2= =80=9Cro=E2=80=9D in your tree output below).
>
> The NETCONF <get-config> operation returns the contents of the &= lt;running> datastore.
> The NETCONF <get> operation returns the contents of the <runn= ing> datastore combined with all the operational state as well.=C2=A0 Fi= lters can be applied to return a subset of the data.
>
> Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system cre= ated configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the conf= iguration in <running> or not.=C2=A0 If it does, then it would be ret= urned in <get> and <get-config> operations.=C2=A0 If it doesn= =E2=80=99t then it would not.=C2=A0 Different vendors/devices will likely i= mplement this in different ways.
>
> Generally, I think that <running> should only contain the config= uration explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems.=C2=A0 But = this means that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created= configuration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false cop= y of every config true node in YANG.=C2=A0 This is approach that was taken = by the original IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were supersede= d by NMDA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different struc= ture =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created con= figuration data).
>
> The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean way= without requiring duplication in the YANG data models.
>
> Hopefully this helps clarify.
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
>
> From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank)
> Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29
> To: netconf@ietf= .org; netmod@ietf.= org
> Cc: Zhangwei (SS) <zhangwei70@huawei.com>
> Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation
>
> Hi all,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pls clarify this question. I have been confused fo= r a long time.
>
> ________________________________
> =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
> [Company_logo]
> =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2
> =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983
> =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com<ma= ilto:frank.= fengchong@huawei.com>
> =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com<http://www.= huawei.com>
> ________________________________
> =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81=
> =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD
> =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81
> This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from =
> HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address =
> is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure,
> reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended
> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error,
> please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!<= br> >
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank)
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' <netconf@ietf.org<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>>;
> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ie= tf.org>
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan
> <yang= shouchuan@huawei.com<mailto:yangshouchuan@huawei.com>>; Zhangwei
> (SS) <zh= angwei70@huawei.com<mailto:zhangwei70@huawei.com>>
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation
>
> Hi all,
> In RFC6241, get operation is defined as:
> 7.7<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#secti= on-7.7>.=C2=A0 <get>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Description:=C2=A0 Retrieve running configuration and dev= ice state
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0information.
> This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified.
>
> The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by use= r, but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client= issues get operation to retrieve this node,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The data is created/modified b= y system or other protocols SHOULD be returned?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For example:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Rib can be configured by user = and also can be created by routing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is = defined as:
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw ribs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw rib* [name]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw name=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw address-family?= =C2=A0 =C2=A0identityref
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro default-rib?=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 boolean {multiple-ribs}?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro routes
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--ro route* >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ...
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---x active-route
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +---w input
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +---w v= 4ur:destination-address?=C2=A0 =C2=A0inet:ipv4-address
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +---w v= 6ur:destination-address?=C2=A0 =C2=A0inet:ipv6-address
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--ro output >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ...
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw description?=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If client issued get operation to retrieve = ribs from non-NMDA device, rib instance created by routing protocols should= be returned?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Another associated question: If client issu= ed get-config operation from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib inst= ance should be returned?
>



> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
--000000000000658b5f058c639a5d-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 08:24:40 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18BA12044A; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U8Wp1MtO7_in; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D905112042B; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561735464; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=ROV6shBJGwiJ2fRIK2YgntD42UfCap761OLs7Hh4/kM=; b=DFFKAmS5BbVeJSvMvMmDcyTxrAI7ToG4RY6d5xNnkXgYyGufqBl7jqPZKI1IPx2D q9EUkpJ9VYfwmFE+DJIDEJ8uilArJiaX2lck6JB0e0HWO4p69WN1P1tK3RKpZAvawEP WGF9JDU3TVaq0sY+yV/oH81Sp59qE77GcTZp5EVo= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:24:24 +0000 In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" To: "Fengchong (frank)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.28-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?W25ldG1vZF0g562U5aSNOiAgcGxzIGNsYXJpZnkgZ2V0?= =?utf-8?q?__operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:24:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Frank, > I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The cost of = migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates to = NMDA, the time will be long. Does Huawei wish to be a leader or a follower? If servers support = both, the clients will quickly adapt. As for myself, a server I'm = working on only supports NMDA. =20 > This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry.=20= > Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ = controller or client tools may not support NMDA client.=20 > A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has no way = to retrieve system-controlled data. >=20 > Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable, = because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, = this is not friendly to the client or the server. Some drafts already publish a "state" module in their Appendix and, when = they do, there is a completely standard non-NMDA IETF solution. I don't = know if this strategy is being followed universally but, if not, then I = don't believe the IETF would object at all to the publication of drafts = for missing state models in drafts that only assumed NMDA. Your message seems to wish for some automatic universal support in the = protocols for converting NMDA models to non-NMDA models. Whilst that = would be possible, and you're welcome to submit a draft for it, it seems = that the solution would entail protocol extensions that non-NMDA = clients/servers would also have to be updated to support, at which point = I'd argue that they would be better off supporting NMDA, which provides = a superior solution. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Frank,

   I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is = unrealistic. The cost of migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the = entire industry migrates to NMDA, the time will be long.

Does = Huawei wish to be a leader or a follower?   If servers support = both, the clients will quickly adapt.  As for myself, a server I'm = working on only supports NMDA.  


   This will = delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry.
=    Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network = manager/ controller or client tools may not support NMDA client.
   A non-NMDA client only support = get/get-config, it still has no way to retrieve system-controlled = data.

   Generation config = false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable, because published IETF = standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, this is not friendly to = the client or the server.

Some drafts already publish a "state" = module in their Appendix and, when they do, there is a completely = standard non-NMDA IETF solution.  I don't know if this strategy is = being followed universally but, if not, then I don't believe the IETF = would object at all to the publication of drafts for missing state = models in drafts that only assumed NMDA.

Your message seems to wish for some = automatic universal support in the protocols for converting NMDA models = to non-NMDA models.  Whilst that would be possible, and you're = welcome to submit a draft for it, it seems that the solution would = entail protocol extensions that non-NMDA clients/servers would also have = to be updated to support, at which point I'd argue that they would be = better off supporting NMDA, which provides a superior = solution.

Kent = // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 14:36:25 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ba0047880-f7d799c9-5725-41df-8339-698d7b855a27-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206FD12091E; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awRcNCzTgld4; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D58C12091B; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561757776; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=rPvDTUAp0mKiL8WEGQcTMGKUpMbi95tuNOSSSo1f2gw=; b=VKATFscRElzbrPGGSqKYFXDtoeioqxZp8N5X/vneyCpmEhsyQMY2TqjsfNn9aELj po2UkOT8Yy1t11EUANZXAPFtWP20XtTvolvQZsgio/geBiXfVHTwfDqdM4p9AZnY+zO fhiB46z2EvmTJDSJ8M4TW8+XPqpjDqLy0szBqIVw= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_106D454C-3B2C-40A1-BA60-5B41983AE85D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016ba0047880-f7d799c9-5725-41df-8339-698d7b855a27-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:36:16 +0000 Cc: "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.28-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] IETF 105 Presentation Requests X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:36:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_106D454C-3B2C-40A1-BA60-5B41983AE85D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear WG, The preliminary IETF 105 Agenda has been posted [1]. NETCONF will meet = for 2-hours Monday morning. If you are interested in presenting to the WG, please send your = presentation requests to the "netconf-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with the = following information, for each presentation request, if more than one: - name of the drafts (if any) - name of presentation (usually the title of the draft) - name of the presenters - desired time request in minutes. [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/agenda/ = PS: *please* respond to *this* thread (removing the "netconf" alias) so = that it's easier for the chairs to track all the requests. Thanks! Kent (and Mahesh) --Apple-Mail=_106D454C-3B2C-40A1-BA60-5B41983AE85D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear WG,

The preliminary IETF 105 Agenda has = been posted [1].  NETCONF will meet for 2-hours Monday = morning.

If you are interested in = presenting to the WG, please send your presentation requests to the = "netconf-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with the following information, for each = presentation request, if more than one:

  - name of the drafts (if = any)
  - name of presentation (usually the = title of the draft)
  - name of the = presenters
  - desired time request in = minutes.

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/agenda/


PS: *please* respond to = *this* thread (removing the "netconf" alias) so that it's easier for the = chairs to track all the requests.

Thanks!
Kent (and Mahesh)


= --Apple-Mail=_106D454C-3B2C-40A1-BA60-5B41983AE85D-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 15:58:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D621202C5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156176266905.11015.15778919654772875950.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] netconf - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:57:49 -0000 Dear Mahesh Jethanandani, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netconf Session 1 (2:00 requested) Monday, 22 July 2019, Morning Session I 1000-1200 Room Name: Viger size: 200 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/sessions/netconf.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netmod Second Priority: opsarea opsawg tsvwg babel idr tcpm Third Priority: sacm saag People who must be present: Mahesh Jethanandani Kent Watsen Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: Friday does not work for the WG. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Jun 29 00:21:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8F21209AC for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 00:21:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LMaGmBKHkeyp for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 00:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E19751209AA for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 00:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 88C6C2DB78565B11207F for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:21:39 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:21:38 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 15:19:50 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen , Martin Bjorklund CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts Thread-Index: AdUuSuzipKZ4tapKQ5qFcPhBDiZorQ== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 07:19:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BA5A2nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] latest update to crypto-types and keystore drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 07:21:44 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BA5A2nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No I disagree. If an admin can create it, it could be part of the factory default config, for convenience. A user with the right access can delete it from the config, just as if it had been created by an admin. Based on your later comments, it seems that we're more in agreement than no= t. Let me rephrase, if the manufacturer generated keys (with 'hidden-key' = or 'hidden-private-key') are stored in the factory default datastore, per d= raft-ietf-netmod-factory-default, they would be read-only and hence immutab= le. Now, upon that configuration being copied into , the configur= ation would become editable and said keys could be removed. [Qin]: Not very familiar with this security part, two questions I am curiou= s to know: 1. If the manufacturer generated keys (with 'hidden-key' or 'hidden-pr= ivate-key') are stored in the factory default datastore, how do we protect = manufacturer generated keys from leaking, encryption, signature? 2. Public key and private key pair is usually generated together, if y= ou put private key in factory default datastore, where do we put public key= ? Rely on TPM hardware to generate public key and put them into operational= datastore? --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BA5A2nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No I disagree.  If an admi= n can create it, it could be part of the
factory default config, for convenience.  A user with the right access=
can delete it from the config, just as if it had been created by an
admin.

 

Based on your later comments, i= t seems that we're more in agreement than not.  Let me rephrase, if th= e manufacturer generated keys (with 'hidden-key' or 'hidden-private-key') a= re stored in the factory default datastore, per draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default, they would be read-only and hence i= mmutable.  Now, upon that configuration being copied into <running&= gt;, the configuration would become editable and said keys could be removed= .

 

[Qin]: = Not very familiar with this security part, two questions I am curious to kn= ow:

1.      If the manufacturer generated keys (with 'hidden-key' or 'hidden-private-k= ey') are stored in the factory default datastore, how do we protect manufac= turer generated keys from leaking, encryption, signature?

2.      Public key and private key pair is usually generated together, if you put = private key in factory default datastore, where do we put public key? Rely = on TPM hardware to generate public key and put them into operational datastore?

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BA5A2nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Sat Jun 29 01:05:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD93E120142; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 01:05:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sN2pfCqSboY1; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 01:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 16:05:05 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Andy Bierman , "Fengchong (frank)" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUuUEFywS+0G73ZTDqYU19dt7I5WA== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:05:05 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BA669nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:05:22 -0000 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NmnjdfjNhD1e; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFA6212009C; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:03:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561809832; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=z6hpuqjiU4nwq5XrBzN+zH6dB31FUH9wMzqVOYDjqtE=; b=h5hZ3KszTr2xoTO14/441ZbXG62A/uga2/cUj4jMzWV0PHZDdZ8rh9cKTiu5SzCo IP4+ZJVjsjzIe5ToPoL5aTA3/H8tPHVgKbj2BEbXSJP3cfW+aPjF9r2wVYQkkA2N383 19TpbfElL07JdfxiE91MRIl/uw+5RjEqqz51qGcQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:03:52 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100016ba31ec8b0-8a5a2b03-8d83-4bab-9084-5dcba3d2fda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "Fengchong (frank)" X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.29-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] =?utf-8?b?W25ldG1vZF0gIOetlOWkjTogIHBscyBjbGFyaWZ5IGdl?= =?utf-8?q?t__operation?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:03:56 -0000 An unsolicited follow up to my earlier message.=20 I didn=E2=80=99t mean to single out any particular company, rather then tryi= ng to encourage all companies to make the bold business decision to embrace N= MDA. The statement was only intended to be one of encouragement.=20 Another clarification, the server I=E2=80=99m working on is natively NMDA. I= have a placeholder for an adaptation layer to support non-NMDA clients, but= won=E2=80=99t implement it unless requested. I realize that only supportin= g NMDA is not officially sanctioned yet but, being a greenfield project with= out legacy clients, I=E2=80=99m hoping it will be okay from a go-to-market p= erspective.=20 Kent // contributor=20 From nobody Sat Jun 29 05:21:54 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5429D120108; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqQbLsVTATDu; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9666812010E; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:21:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561810909; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=lT9oGS1gdEVDyqrIp6idqGfojFYeY/yUogokmJFB8ic=; b=dX8GaaVOpLPoY+TMwNbqSuhgsurdLcVlxR8baqL/WQ6i8tA4dhb4bgSmolNWyD72 A6yIsfjumrxYWI/MbHXi9y2cWT9ictw2wAkWcepFWXM8mEndjSHY5+uVAihRisbzmaG RVy+fgWXEBywfnR6aEmgQAvX5T5SvV1bAOzF6d6s= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:21:48 +0000 Cc: Andy Bierman , "Fengchong (frank)" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Yangang Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: Qin Wu X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.29-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:21:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Qin, > If my understanding is correct, Frank=E2=80=99s intention is not proposed t= o fall back to single datastore, split tree. His concern is how Does the non= -NMDA client talk with NMDA compliant devices, suppose large amount of devic= es support NMDA. Using the original non-NMDA protocols, assuming the servers support both NMD= A and non-NMDA. > Does the device need to support both NMDA model and non-NMDA model? Yes, assuming a heterogeneous mix of NMDA and non-NMDA servers.=20 > Is this common case or corner case in real deployment senario. While the industry is transitioning to NMDA, it is an expected case. At som= e point, the IETF will obsolete non-NMDA support. > suggestions or guidelines defined in NMDA architecture and NMDA guideline(= /rfc8407#section-4.23.3) seem to only assume NMDA client only talks with NMD= A server, non-NMDA client only talks with non-NMDA server. True, but there=E2=80=99s no statement that a client or server cannot be bot= h. Note also that the NC/RC-NMDA RFCs explain how clients can discover if a= server supports NMDA. The intention is that the client would first try to u= se NMDA and, if not supported, fallback to non-NMDA.=20 Kent // contributor=20= --Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Qin,


If my understanding is correct, Frank=E2=80=99s i= ntention is not proposed to fall back to single datastore, split tree. His c= oncern is how Does the non-NMDA client talk with NMDA compliant devices, suppose large amount of devices su= pport NMDA.


Using the= original non-NMDA protocols, assuming the servers support both NMDA and non= -NMDA.

Does the device need to s= upport both NMDA model and non-NMDA model?


Yes, assuming a heterogeneous mix of NMDA and non-NMDA= servers. 

Is t= his common case or corner case in real deployment senario.

<= /div>

While the industry is transitioning to= NMDA, it is an expected case.  At some point, the IETF will obsolete n= on-NMDA support.

suggestions or guideline= s defined in NMDA architecture and NMDA guideline(/rfc8407#section-4.23.3) s= eem to only assume NMDA client only talks with NMDA server, non-NMDA client only talks with non-NMDA server.


True, but there=E2=80=99s no statement t= hat a client or server cannot be both.  Note also that the NC/RC-NMDA R= FCs explain how clients can discover if a server supports NMDA.  The in= tention is that the client would first try to use NMDA and, if not supported= , fallback to non-NMDA. 

Kent // contributor 
= --Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E-- From nobody Sat Jun 29 05:43:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03CF120108; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4OmklsreclOi; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D3C8120096; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7E260; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id SZ7la7X2i2Bc; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283DB20128; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id zVDkpbD1Lwzz; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFA4420126; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:39 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 886B0300A8F1BD; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:39 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen CC: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190629124339.uvpratkwuvqrqmh5@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@email.amazonses.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:43:46 -0000 A server that has a reason to support NMDA (because, for example, applied config can differ from running config) has to provide a 'cooked view' towards non-NMDA clients that is not representing the entire truth and hence may cause clients to draw wrong conclusions. Perhaps there is a business case to cheat non-NMDA clients but for serious network operations, one would hope that the transition towards NMDA is ideally short so that clients can work with robust data. /js On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 12:21:48PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Qin, >=20 > > If my understanding is correct, Frank=E2=80=99s intention is not prop= osed to fall back to single datastore, split tree. His concern is how Doe= s the non-NMDA client talk with NMDA compliant devices, suppose large amo= unt of devices support NMDA. >=20 > Using the original non-NMDA protocols, assuming the servers support bot= h NMDA and non-NMDA. >=20 > > Does the device need to support both NMDA model and non-NMDA model? >=20 > Yes, assuming a heterogeneous mix of NMDA and non-NMDA servers.=20 >=20 > > Is this common case or corner case in real deployment senario. >=20 > While the industry is transitioning to NMDA, it is an expected case. A= t some point, the IETF will obsolete non-NMDA support. >=20 > > suggestions or guidelines defined in NMDA architecture and NMDA guide= line(/rfc8407#section-4.23.3) seem to only assume NMDA client only talks = with NMDA server, non-NMDA client only talks with non-NMDA server. >=20 > True, but there=E2=80=99s no statement that a client or server cannot b= e both. Note also that the NC/RC-NMDA RFCs explain how clients can disco= ver if a server supports NMDA. The intention is that the client would fi= rst try to use NMDA and, if not supported, fallback to non-NMDA.=20 >=20 > Kent // contributor=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103