From nobody Wed May 5 13:12:52 2021 Return-Path: <010001793e2953ba-e3b3a097-91de-4df6-9096-072452c1b0d8-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDEFB3A1F55 for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CVcrND_FNeGI for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 13:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-95.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-95.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A7F33A1F53 for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 13:12:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1620245566; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=gNbqbhWugM0a0tY+qSZn0SMcumqxrCtiqHhh1FExWdg=; b=Jwxq0usd07v7DNjcpasJRKrS3yawKymUPEkBFGz4cOg+m/C1myKAy3bw7Qa+MvCI 9rrPfgc6lE2DCQcZCLqxPlfblYVc3P93uZUsRYDbgmaUwMcVkDY5HKwK6+zLQOURbdl JVkX3y5650Mt4xhAYO6VQ+RXI7GiPPOtGP310no4= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20210429190209.dheo4q2sol5jt473@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 20:12:46 +0000 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <010001793e2953ba-e3b3a097-91de-4df6-9096-072452c1b0d8-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <971-608af580-15-2e293dc0@34342692> <010001791eead163-ac714f94-ac4f-455a-adcf-20577ce13dc4-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210429190209.dheo4q2sol5jt473@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.05-54.240.48.95 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Latest ietf-netconf-server draft and related modules X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 May 2021 20:12:51 -0000 Hi Juergen, >> How about this (the last sentence), in ietf-ssh-client? >>=20 >> The credentials are unordered. Clients may initially send >> any configured method or, per RFC 4252, Section 5.2, send >> the 'none' method to prompt the server to provide a list >> of productive methods. Whenever a choice amongst methods >> arises, implementations SHOULD use a default ordering that >> prioritizes automation over human-interaction. Not directed at Juergen, but I=E2=80=99ll assume that the last sentence = is fine. > I find the terminology at several places confusing. We have been > talking about the order in which user authentication methods are > tried. This has nothing to do with 'credential' ordering. >=20 > In draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-23.txt, I see >=20 > * The "client-identity" node configures a "username" and > credentials, each enabled by a "feature" statement defined in > Section 3.1.1. Replaced =E2=80=9Ccredentials=E2=80=9D with "authentication methods=E2=80=9D= - for both modules and the draft itself > Why is this called 'client-identity', should this not be called > user-authentication instead to align with SSH terminology? >=20 > The guarding features likely also should have different names: > client-identity-publickey -> userauth-publickey > client-identity-password -> userauth-password > client-identity-hostbased -> userauth-hostbased > client-identity-none -> userauth-none >=20 In ietf-ssh-client, renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*" In ietf-ssh-server, renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*" Thanks, Kent From nobody Thu May 6 01:04:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21473A1713; Thu, 6 May 2021 01:04:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162028825767.29088.110964898433917@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 01:04:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-distributed-notif-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 08:04:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Subscription to Distributed Notifications Authors : Tianran Zhou Guangying Zheng Eric Voit Thomas Graf Pierre Francois Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-distributed-notif-02.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2021-05-06 Abstract: This document describes extensions to the YANG notifications subscription to allow metrics being published directly from processors on line cards to target receivers, while subscription is still maintained at the route processor in a distributed forwarding system. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-distributed-notif/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-distributed-notif-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-distributed-notif-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-distributed-notif-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 10 12:02:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F7B3A27AA; Mon, 10 May 2021 12:01:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kent Watsen via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Kent Watsen , iesg-secretary@ietf.org, kent+ietf@watsen.net, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162067331240.9513.16555860412101643935@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 12:01:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 19:02:02 -0000 Kent Watsen has requested publication of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the NETCONF working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities/ From nobody Mon May 10 13:16:01 2021 Return-Path: <0100017957ebcbb9-d8daa1f2-1eba-4600-aa3a-1ca9d19fdce1-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658D13A29A5 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOwl-eebkkMx for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7099B3A29D9 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:15:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1620677742; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=Ao7sgLuxh5M/+oQ55yaFiqGOEyFmtGrcv2QiGNTzcDQ=; b=WvXRDxZqS03MLzIT8/UO13GCGFwLx0kAZoCMf7xdTKM1DoD5n2pCwHhp0SOeP/JC rYJBUjyK88PX65hN4EMIVqUyfhnQuTiOhfhQZts1w9z6zWxTqA/zisniZnj/mi3tIoX j+tybT0MW1NxPjcIQL4Q62DP23sdH+SRiP/wYrjA= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A1705125-B5E3-4623-ACD4-859D41603245" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 20:15:41 +0000 References: <01000178ec1343cb-74c9995e-8043-4e49-aa81-9da0fb07045b-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <01000178ec1343cb-74c9995e-8043-4e49-aa81-9da0fb07045b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100017957ebcbb9-d8daa1f2-1eba-4600-aa3a-1ca9d19fdce1-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.10-54.240.48.90 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 20:15:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A1705125-B5E3-4623-ACD4-859D41603245 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear WG, Mahesh and I were sure that this message would kickoff a massive debate! = ;) Seriously, though, any thoughts on this? If none, then perhaps Rob (as = AD and chair-fallback) can advise on a path forward? FWIW, Mahesh and I are of the opinion that protocol-specific mechanisms = provide a better overall solution (e.g., ease of implementation)... Kent and Mahesh (as contributors) > On Apr 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > Dear WG, >=20 > One of the outcomes from =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D presentation = during the NETCONF 110 session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., = https, udp, etc.) drafts should define their own capability-fetching = mechanism, or use the mechanism defined by the = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft. >=20 > As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the PROs and CONs of the = approaches as follows: >=20 > PROs (for having a shared-mechanism): > Enables a common mechanism spanning multiple notif transports to exist=20= >=20 > CONs (against having a shared mechanism): >=20 > Entails each receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF = server > Whereas a notif-specific solution can be optimized on a per-protocol = basis. > FWIW, if RC, the receiver COULD minimally support *just* the single = GET request (i.e., not a complete RC server) > Still, networking/firewall would have to support the outbound NC/RC = flow, in addition to the base notification flow >=20 > Potentially extends the number of capabilities to be more than = minimally necessary > e.g., the current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules define = dozens of capabilities supporting RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not = needed for https-notif, when RFC 8639 is not in use. > HTTPS-Notif seems to need only three capabilities: > What encodings are supported (json, xml, binary) > If the RFC 8639 state machine is supported. > If bundled messages is supported. > Presumably, UDP-Notif would similarly have a small set of capacities. > In fact, it may be less, as UDP may be unable to support RFC 8639 >=20 >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > Kent and Mahesh // as authors >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_A1705125-B5E3-4623-ACD4-859D41603245 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Dear WG,

Mahesh and I were sure that this = message would kickoff a massive debate!  ;)

Seriously, though, any thoughts on = this?  If none, then perhaps Rob (as AD and chair-fallback) can = advise on a path forward?

FWIW, Mahesh and I are of the opinion that protocol-specific = mechanisms provide a better overall solution (e.g., ease of = implementation)...

Kent and Mahesh (as contributors)



On Apr = 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrote:

Dear WG,

One of the outcomes from = =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D presentation during the NETCONF 110 = session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., https, udp, etc.) drafts = should define their own capability-fetching mechanism, or use the = mechanism defined by the "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft.

As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the PROs and CONs = of the approaches as follows:

  • PROs (for = having a shared-mechanism):
    • Enables a = common mechanism spanning multiple notif transports to exist 

  • CONs (against having = a shared mechanism):

    • Entails each receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or = RESTCONF server
      • Whereas a = notif-specific solution can be optimized on a per-protocol = basis.
      • FWIW, if RC, the receiver COULD minimally = support *just* the single GET request (i.e., not a complete RC = server)
      • Still, networking/firewall would have to = support the outbound NC/RC flow, in addition to the base notification = flow

    • Potentially = extends the number of capabilities to be more than minimally = necessary
      • e.g., the = current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules define = dozens of capabilities supporting RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not = needed for https-notif, when RFC 8639 is not in use.
        • HTTPS-Notif seems to need only three = capabilities:
          1. What encodings are = supported (json, xml, binary)
          2. If the RFC 8639 = state machine is supported.
          3. If bundled messages is = supported.
        • Presumably, UDP-Notif would similarly = have a small set of capacities.
          • In = fact, it may be less, as UDP may be unable to support RFC = 8639


Thoughts?

Kent and Mahesh  // = as authors


_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_A1705125-B5E3-4623-ACD4-859D41603245-- From nobody Mon May 10 13:36:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752173A2A30; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:36:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, rwilton@cisco.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <162067899774.30562.6279195107787637501@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:36:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] netconf - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 111 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 20:36:39 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani, a Chair of the netconf working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 45 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: netmod tcpm idr Technology Overlap: opsarea opsawg People who must be present: Mahesh Jethanandani Kent Watsen Robert Wilton Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue May 11 04:57:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0481A3A12EC for ; 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Tue, 11 May 2021 11:57:22 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: netconf-tls wasRe: [netconf] Latest ietf-netconf-server draft and related modules Thread-Index: AQHXPP5RkEf2qGX72kaPVI9y99M1OqrePBVc Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 11:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <972-608a4700-29-1b90d060@24617716>, <010001791de3029b-730530a6-f4fb-4d57-9d39-a1551ab76260-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010001791de3029b-730530a6-f4fb-4d57-9d39-a1551ab76260-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.143.250.49] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6125be43-0837-48ac-6276-08d91473efed x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6546: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6125be43-0837-48ac-6276-08d91473efed X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 May 2021 11:57:22.7368 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TaCE9WKe8W7zcfpTshbBApq7/X/13kEbR9CCKz04xdwaPCGKrLbADIk5jjpT2VVddit5Tc1n1Xro0bTzay+dpA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6546 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Latest ietf-netconf-server draft and related modules X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 11:57:27 -0000 I find this I-D confused about which versions of TLS are supported. It is = 1.0/1.1/1.2 or1.2/1.3 or 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 or 1.2 or ...=0A= This needs addressing and the text changed to match.=0A= =0A= I suspect that the IESG will not accept any support for 1.0 or 1.1 given th= e existence of an RFC deprecating them and that this I-D should not go furt= her than putting in place hooks with which an organisation could augment su= ch support if they wanted to, but even that may be going too far.=0A= =0A= I wonder too about what forms of authentication are acceptable, something t= hat has changed several times in the life of the I-D. I do not have a vie= w of which are and which are not but think that guidance from the TLS WG or= SecDir or Security AD would be useful now rather than later.=0A= =0A= In a similar vein, TLS 1.3 is keen to ship application data before the hand= shake is complete, before authentication has happened, which causes problem= s for applications which want the handshake and authentication to complete = first. I see NETCONF as being such an application and the I-D needs to add= ress that, as it is being addressed by other WG.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch= From nobody Tue May 11 08:16:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046C33A1B28 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:16:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id crC0RZVhiX0H for ; 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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;btconnect.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de; Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:194::23) by AM9P190MB1601.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:20b:3b6::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4108.24; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:16:15 +0000 Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fd93:9b33:ac92:ea58]) by AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fd93:9b33:ac92:ea58%8]) with mapi id 15.20.4129.025; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:16:15 +0000 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:16:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: tom petch Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20210511151614.lcee2jna33bib4gk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: tom petch , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <972-608a4700-29-1b90d060@24617716> <010001791de3029b-730530a6-f4fb-4d57-9d39-a1551ab76260-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: text/plain; 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It is 1.0/1.1/1.2 or1.2/1.3 or 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 or 1.2 or ... > This needs addressing and the text changed to match. > > I suspect that the IESG will not accept any support for 1.0 or 1.1 given the existence of an RFC deprecating them and that this I-D should not go further than putting in place hooks with which an organisation could augment such support if they wanted to, but even that may be going too far. > > I wonder too about what forms of authentication are acceptable, something that has changed several times in the life of the I-D. I do not have a view of which are and which are not but think that guidance from the TLS WG or SecDir or Security AD would be useful now rather than later. > > In a similar vein, TLS 1.3 is keen to ship application data before the handshake is complete, before authentication has happened, which causes problems for applications which want the handshake and authentication to complete first. I see NETCONF as being such an application and the I-D needs to address that, as it is being addressed by other WG. > > Tom Petch > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue May 11 10:12:15 2021 Return-Path: <010001795c69dcf8-0d94c645-4824-4dca-a1d1-c88d1d2e8f1e-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3723A1EB8 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VpGkVc-GrP0X for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 10:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E06483A1EE4 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 10:11:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1620753112; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=ftMmJQa8n09/I4sStLCt2RxbGZOJWD1qWO2YOPAJNoA=; b=Cbx+ybjWIwfzrjOgYUMfkhFrpJkmrTGytCxftOVJ/Jr/+UCPwWh7IMELJOYsoi2q k8EJC+eworP2byP6TxBFwIGPzMqodONVCNJMKbxI16ZpnDmIr/vdzVVCPgkgvLjWJfo hQmi/H/j9U5wLj8L+JzWOtC8hJ2aUb6aTZ6xdU8s= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <010001795c69dcf8-0d94c645-4824-4dca-a1d1-c88d1d2e8f1e-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2ABBEA70-DF91-4BD2-B18F-EDD02B2AED10" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:11:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: tom petch References: <972-608a4700-29-1b90d060@24617716> <010001791de3029b-730530a6-f4fb-4d57-9d39-a1551ab76260-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.11-54.240.48.90 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Latest ietf-netconf-server draft and related modules X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:12:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2ABBEA70-DF91-4BD2-B18F-EDD02B2AED10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tom, > I find this I-D confused about which versions of TLS are supported. = It is 1.0/1.1/1.2 or1.2/1.3 or 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 or 1.2 or ... > This needs addressing and the text changed to match. The =E2=80=9Cietf-tls-common=E2=80=9D module has features: "tls-1_0=E2=80=9D= , "tls-1_1=E2=80=9D, "tls-1_2=E2=80=9D, and "tls-1_3=E2=80=9D. Per this = recent thread [1], my local-copy now has for all features except = =E2=80=9Ctls-1_3=E2=80=9D a comment in the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D = statement along the lines of "TLS 1.x is obsolete and thus it is NOT = RECOMMENDED to enable this feature." [1] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/dGGP4kQU8EnlcMVMq1ZZ0uAYBO0 > I suspect that the IESG will not accept any support for 1.0 or 1.1 = given the existence of an RFC deprecating them and that this I-D should = not go further than putting in place hooks with which an organisation = could augment such support if they wanted to, but even that may be going = too far. Disagree. It's one thing to say that a protocol is deprecated and = another to say that the configuration for a still somewhat-widely used = deprecated-protocol is deprecated. > I wonder too about what forms of authentication are acceptable, = something that has changed several times in the life of the I-D. I do = not have a view of which are and which are not but think that guidance = from the TLS WG or SecDir or Security AD would be useful now rather than = later. What is there to wonder about with regards to forms of authentication? = Saying they=E2=80=99ve changed several times is exaggerated - they = changes only once, and that was to add support for =E2=80=9Craw public = keys=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cpre-shared-keys=E2=80=9D, per request. = AFAIK, the auth mechanisms (the two just mentioned + X.509 certs) are = the minimally viable set. > In a similar vein, TLS 1.3 is keen to ship application data before the = handshake is complete, before authentication has happened, which causes = problems for applications which want the handshake and authentication to = complete first. I see NETCONF as being such an application and the I-D = needs to address that, as it is being addressed by other WG. Is that really true? How is it not considered a security hole in the = protocol?! I agree that it=E2=80=99s undesirable, but it=E2=80=99s = unclear what text could be added to the =E2=80=9Ctis-client-server=E2=80=9D= , =E2=80=9Cnetconf-client-server=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Crestconf-client-server=E2=80=9D drafts to address this. Please = advise. Thanks, Kent --Apple-Mail=_2ABBEA70-DF91-4BD2-B18F-EDD02B2AED10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Tom,


I find this I-D confused about = which versions of TLS are supported.  It is 1.0/1.1/1.2 or1.2/1.3 = or 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 or 1.2 or ...
This= needs addressing and the text changed to match.

The = =E2=80=9Cietf-tls-common=E2=80=9D module has features: "tls-1_0=E2=80=9D, = "tls-1_1=E2=80=9D, "tls-1_2=E2=80=9D, and "tls-1_3=E2=80= =9D.  Per this = recent thread [1], my local-copy now has for all features = except =E2=80=9Ctls-1_3=E2=80=9D a comment in = the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement along the lines of = "TLS 1.x is obsolete and thus it is NOT RECOMMENDED = to enable this feature."



I suspect that the IESG will not accept any support for 1.0 = or 1.1 given the existence of an RFC deprecating them and that this I-D = should not go further than putting in place hooks with which an = organisation could augment such support if they wanted to, but even that = may be going too far.

Disagree.  It's one thing to say that a = protocol is deprecated and another to say that the configuration for a = still somewhat-widely used deprecated-protocol is = deprecated.


I wonder too = about what forms of authentication are acceptable, something that has = changed several times in the life of the I-D.  I do  not have = a view of which are and which are not but think that guidance from the = TLS WG or SecDir or Security AD would be useful now rather than = later.

What is there to wonder about with regards to = forms of authentication?  Saying they=E2=80=99ve changed several = times is exaggerated - they changes only once, and that was to add = support for =E2=80=9Craw public keys=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cpre-shared-keys= =E2=80=9D, per request.  AFAIK, the auth mechanisms (the two just = mentioned + X.509 certs) are the minimally viable set.


In a similar vein, TLS 1.3 is keen to ship = application data before the handshake is complete, before authentication = has happened, which causes problems for applications which want the = handshake and authentication to complete first.  I see NETCONF as = being such an application and the I-D needs to address that, as it is = being addressed by other WG.

Is = that really true?  How is it not considered a security hole in the = protocol?!  I agree that it=E2=80=99s undesirable, but it=E2=80=99s = unclear what text could be added to the =E2=80=9Ctis-client-server=E2=80=9D= , =E2=80=9Cnetconf-client-server=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Crestconf-client-server=E2=80=9D drafts to address this. =  Please advise.

Thanks,
Kent

= --Apple-Mail=_2ABBEA70-DF91-4BD2-B18F-EDD02B2AED10-- From nobody Tue May 11 18:51:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EF43A2EB6 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 18:51:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id efQwAE00Rkk9 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 18:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No 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Wu To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms Thread-Index: AddG0HdnnTBaPY4uRHyvd2vwkGmwRw== Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 01:51:33 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_fe4d6fca7cc34ffc8611bf0c94352b33huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 01:51:45 -0000 --_000_fe4d6fca7cc34ffc8611bf0c94352b33huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIEtlbnQ6DQpTb3JyeSBmb3IgbGF0ZSBmb2xsb3cgdXAuDQpPbiBBcHIgMTksIDIwMjEsIGF0 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+0800 (CST) Feedback-ID: webmail:foxmail.com:bgforeign:bgforeign11 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 05:32:03 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_609B6847_11CBDF20_7724030D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb18030" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIFFpbiBhbmQga2VudKO6DQoNCg0KJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyBUaGFua3MgZm9yIGNsYXJp ZmljYXRpb24sIEkgZmVlbCBpdCB3aWxsIGJlIHVzZWZ1bCB0byBoYXZlIG9uZSBjb21tb24g bW9kZWwgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBib3RoIHB1bGwgYW5kIHB1c2ggYXBwcm9hY2ggYW5kIGhlbHAg Ym90aCB0aGUgc2VydmVyIGFuZCBjbGllbnQga25vdyBlYWNoIG90aGVyoa9zIGNhcGFiaWxp dHkuDQoNCg0KV2VpDQpDaGluYSBUZWxlY29tDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tJm5i c3A7T3JpZ2luYWwmbmJzcDstLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkZyb206ICAgICAgICAgICAg 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([10.8.68.58]) by dggeme770-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.8.68.58]) with mapi id 15.01.2176.012; Wed, 12 May 2021 14:54:39 +0800 From: "maqiufang (A)" To: Wei Wang , Qin Wu , Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms Thread-Index: AddG0HdnSNhQPyUmB0iwqeRmQPitBf//uS2A//9kl9A= Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 06:54:39 +0000 Message-ID: <3a058efa22df47239b8d016c6ba9e431@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.93] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3a058efa22df47239b8d016c6ba9e431huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 06:54:52 -0000 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Hi, folks,<= /o:p>

Since data-expor= t-capability draft defines a mechanism to discover a set of capabilities su= pported by the NETCONF/RESTCONF server(the network device, actually).

But in the http-= notif draft, what we need to discover is the receiver's capabilities, rathe= r than the device=A1=AFs.

So I think the r= eason Kent said that the receiver must also be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF se= rver is that only in this case can the data-export-capability draft be used as capability discovery on the http-receiver side.

Please correct m= e if there exists any misunderstanding.-:)

From my perspect= ive, The data-export-capability does not have to require the receiver to fu= nction as a NETCONF/RESTCONF server. The capability discovery mechanism in these two drafts can complement each other in this = case. In other cases, data-export-capability provides the receiver with an = overall  acquisition of the transport capabilities about the device.

 

 

From: netconf [mailto:netconf-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wei Wang
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 1:32 PM
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; Kent Watsen <kent+ietf= @watsen.net>; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms

 

Hi, Qin and kent=A3=BA

 

    Thanks for clarification, I feel it wi= ll be useful to have one common model to support both pull and push approac= h and help both the server and client know each other=A1=AFs capability.

 

Wei

China Telecom

 

------------------ Original ---------= ---------

From: "Qin Wu&q= uot; <bill.wu@huawei.com>;<= o:p>

Date: Wed, May = 12, 2021 09:51 AM

Subject: Re: [n= etconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms

 

Hi, Kent:

Sorry for late follow up.

On Apr 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrote:

 

Dear WG,

 

One of the outcomes from =A1=B0https-notif=A1=B1 presentation duri= ng the NETCONF 110 session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., https, u= dp, etc.) drafts should define their own capability-fetching mechanism, or use the mechanism defined by the "data-export-capabilit= ies=A1=B1 draft.

 

As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the PROs and CONs of th= e approaches as follows:

[Qin]:I am under impression that shared-mechanism has a lot of ben= efit.:-)

  • PROs (for having a shared-mechanism):
    • Enables a common mechanism spanning multiple notif transports to exist
  • CONs (against having a shared mechanism):
    • Entails each receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF server

           =             &nb= sp;        [Qin]:Is receiver in this con= text NETCONF/RESTCONF server or client?

           =             &nb= sp;          I think we mix tw= o things,

a.      one is the server advertise its capability= to the client , (i.e., server capability advertisement)

b.      the other is server send the capability qu= ery request the client and get capability response from the client. (client= capability fetching)

           =             &nb= sp;        I think data-export-capabilit= ies right now focuses on (a), the question you ask here is whether (b) can = be defined as shared mechanism which can be part of

           =             &nb= sp;        the "data-export-capabil= ities=A1=B1 draft. If my understanding is correct, I think it will be nice = to have (b) such shared mechanism, i.e., Defining (a) and (b) in a single place.

      • Whereas a notif-specific solution can be optimized on a per-protocol basis.=
      • FWIW, if RC, the receiver COULD minimally support *just* the single GET req= uest (i.e., not a complete RC server)
      • Still, networking/firewall would have to support the outbound NC/RC flow, i= n addition to the base notification flow

            =        [Qin]: "data-export-capabilities = " draft uses draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 as basis = or foundation. If my understanding is correct, draft-ietf-netconf- notification-capabilities-16 doesn=A1=AFt

require receiver to support NETCONF or   RESTCONF.

    • Potentially extends the number of capabilities to be more than minimally ne= cessary
      • e.g., the current "data-export-capabilities=A1=B1 modules define dozen= s of capabilities supporting RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not needed for = https-notif,

            &nb= sp;            =             [Qin] Do= zens of capabilities defined by the current "data-export-capabilities= =A1=B1 modules are all optional capability. It doesn=A1=AFt require all the= capabilities to be supported.

when RFC 8639 is not in use.

        • HTTPS-Notif seems to need only three capabilities:
          1. What encodings are supported (json, xml, binary)
          2. If the RFC 8639 state machine is supported.
          3. If bundled messages is supported.

           =             &nb= sp;          [Qin]: So HTTPs-n= otif can pick those three capabilities and ignore other capabilities.  = ;I believe HTTP has mechanism to deal with these unhandled capabilities advertised by the network device.  One of such example i= s unhandled

Namespace defined in (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm= l/draft-ietf-regext-unhandled-namespaces-07)

        • Presumably, UDP-Notif would similarly have a small set of capacities.<= /o:p>
          • In fact, it may be less, as UDP may be unable to support RFC 8639

      =        [Qin]: See clarification above. For UDP notif, it doesn=A1=AF= t require all the capability to be supported.

 

Thoughts?

 

Kent and Mahesh  // as authors

 

 

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--_000_3a058efa22df47239b8d016c6ba9e431huaweicom_-- From nobody Wed May 12 02:18:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB0A3A0A86 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 02:18:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mg-soft.si Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3kfbwI7ra9ze for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 02:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E893A0A85 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 02:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (teleport2.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.254]) by galileo.mg-soft.si (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AA4C41754A for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 11:18:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 galileo.mg-soft.si C0AA4C41754A DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg-soft.si; s=default; t=1620811127; bh=PeDCmxeOn+7PizFn4lBeZV0fH7/5ZlMXONferU050jI=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=OGw4FgCVn1DvJiGezHX4OMoa5DnUkH0+hSQTiXZAfiQHHP6SYAJXdZLfAboPNzFWp KjMepWCwzFqnZOnOMR2K+emFkB8xqVn6QPT/qZ1497+COwQAK4jspQRWmfCfDn/5jw xci2cBGucAJauB3rVXeOoaXu6pXps/q9hAW7WbaBkZ3QNQiw8AcDNlNpsKMH/lJroM LhkBpaDd4bYtAdbrzFOMYXoWNiAhjIdhRLbKOPZOSbWjLPZ2+6cdeOPiR3vZAn+ylj 6oq8SWHxY09AoAxVe3CLanR8sfuqqE1WFZiE6HlCaJTM6k6DTfcZQ14lfcq6u8NjEA fI1uggT9TmX2A== To: Netconf From: Jernej Tuljak Message-ID: <6b520a21-02a7-a41e-caac-fe8dc38a1a9d@mg-soft.si> Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 11:18:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 09:18:56 -0000 Hi, is there a particular reason for the deviation leaf-list in ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 not having require-instance true for its leafref path, therefore allowing servers to report "incomplete" module sets/schemas to the client?      grouping module-implementation-parameters {        description          "Parameters for describing the implementation of a module.";        leaf-list feature {          type yang:yang-identifier;          description            "List of all YANG feature names from this module that are             supported by the server, regardless whether they are defined             in the module or any included submodule.";        }        leaf-list deviation {          type leafref {            path "../../module/name";          }          description            "List of all YANG deviation modules used by this server to             modify the conformance of the module associated with this             entry.  Note that the same module can be used for deviations             for multiple modules, so the same entry MAY appear within             multiple 'module' entries.             This reference MUST NOT (directly or indirectly)             refer to the module being deviated.             Robust clients may want to make sure that they handle a             situation where a module deviates itself (directly or             indirectly) gracefully.";        }      } Why are deviation modules allowed to exist without a module entry within YANG Library instances? Why would a server choose to withhold namespace information for a deviation module? Jernej From nobody Wed May 12 04:44:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7163A0A31 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 04:44:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mg-soft.si Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jBMhZX6JX_Pf for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 04:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984873A0A2E for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 04:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (teleport2.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.254]) by galileo.mg-soft.si (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED75C41754A for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:43:53 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 galileo.mg-soft.si 8ED75C41754A DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg-soft.si; s=default; t=1620819833; bh=mVBM9pBhQ9AKI6X9fVs53WsUiW0p+V8scAjpZgYpiQE=; h=Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=or5RZ7R6FkG/o/b6amSOl4ZV10QfVT84qNPBQFRZ8jo3Xw071AowadonpWtY+HA86 TRH38PEp7b7rYAhbcd+bk6kUc2Yq9i8YzmkLJFPLdttDl1+YI7hKPfvaBT92K5ATiD ImGBLgfI/2+YFuYGGHuNBQfZEidXsrHfpkDu2ELuvbFR1oN9cStSmxmkkXlrhSqiKR tRIjE60BElZHZBlhvkuFlDBHEgUmeyxvqvi6gRMa2Bn8IYMyShF+UaWsGekGUWLLbn dTWbpzwRSq+8Rcias/qvX42Z+0G0yT182yaM35/BaGhIlhbyrsQ+Pi9Y8c2uGcmKfs m8jZZdwnn+QvA== From: Jernej Tuljak To: Netconf References: <6b520a21-02a7-a41e-caac-fe8dc38a1a9d@mg-soft.si> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 13:43:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6b520a21-02a7-a41e-caac-fe8dc38a1a9d@mg-soft.si> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 11:44:09 -0000 Somehow it slipped my mind that require-instance defaults to true in YANG 1.1. Everything checks out. A server implementation that announces a deviation module in the "/yang-library/module-set/module/deviation" leaf-list, but lacks a corresponding entry in "/yang-library/module-set/module" list is non-RFC8525 compliant. Jernej On 12/05/2021 11:18, Jernej Tuljak wrote: > Hi, > > is there a particular reason for the deviation leaf-list in > ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 not having require-instance true for its > leafref path, therefore allowing servers to report "incomplete" module > sets/schemas to the client? > >      grouping module-implementation-parameters { >        description >          "Parameters for describing the implementation of a module."; >        leaf-list feature { >          type yang:yang-identifier; >          description >            "List of all YANG feature names from this module that are >             supported by the server, regardless whether they are defined >             in the module or any included submodule."; >        } >        leaf-list deviation { >          type leafref { >            path "../../module/name"; >          } > >          description >            "List of all YANG deviation modules used by this server to >             modify the conformance of the module associated with this >             entry.  Note that the same module can be used for deviations >             for multiple modules, so the same entry MAY appear within >             multiple 'module' entries. > >             This reference MUST NOT (directly or indirectly) >             refer to the module being deviated. > >             Robust clients may want to make sure that they handle a >             situation where a module deviates itself (directly or >             indirectly) gracefully."; >        } >      } > > Why are deviation modules allowed to exist without a module entry > within YANG Library instances? Why would a server choose to withhold > namespace information for a deviation module? > > Jernej > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed May 12 09:34:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555903A0FCA for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RArO7ZfDqkq0 for ; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 774fa28c-885f-4fa1-9df4-08d91563bf0a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 May 2021 16:33:59.7718 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: x/Od8p9AS1UgwlvBcH6/fPZv3sFeNCnSXEUa+puG03xDLulNhq0m5uVQYJ2rYv9/drfwW26nt+6z31xsMiVDQQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6546 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Latest ietf-netconf-server draft and related modules X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 16:34:08 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 11 May 2021 18:11=0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= I find this I-D confused about which versions of TLS are supported. It is = 1.0/1.1/1.2 or1.2/1.3 or 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 or 1.2 or ...=0A= This needs addressing and the text changed to match.=0A= =0A= The =93ietf-tls-common=94 module has features: "tls-1_0=94, "tls-1_1=94, "t= ls-1_2=94, and "tls-1_3=94. Per this recent thread [1], my local-copy now = has for all features except =93tls-1_3=94 a comment in the =93description= =94 statement along the lines of "TLS 1.x is obsolete and thus it is NOT RE= COMMENDED to enable this feature."=0A= =0A= [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/dGGP4kQU8EnlcMVMq1ZZ0uAYB= O0=0A= =0A= =0A= My comment is that in different places in the I-D there are references to d= ifferent combinations of different versions of TLS so I am not clear that a= ll four versions are supported. If they are, as you suggest, then editoria= l changes are needed - look for example at all the places where RFC5246 is = referenced - valid for TLS 1.2 but for the other versions of TLS? I think n= ot.=0A= =0A= =0A= I suspect that the IESG will not accept any support for 1.0 or 1.1 given th= e existence of an RFC deprecating them and that this I-D should not go furt= her than putting in place hooks with which an organisation could augment su= ch support if they wanted to, but even that may be going too far.=0A= =0A= Disagree. It's one thing to say that a protocol is deprecated and another = to say that the configuration for a still somewhat-widely used deprecated-p= rotocol is deprecated.=0A= =0A= Well, time will tell. I expect pushback from Security AD which I why I sug= gested getting secdir or some such to look now rather than when it has reac= hed the IESG=0A= =0A= =0A= I wonder too about what forms of authentication are acceptable, something t= hat has changed several times in the life of the I-D. I do not have a vie= w of which are and which are not but think that guidance from the TLS WG or= SecDir or Security AD would be useful now rather than later.=0A= =0A= What is there to wonder about with regards to forms of authentication? Say= ing they=92ve changed several times is exaggerated - they changes only once= , and that was to add support for =93raw public keys=94 and =93pre-shared-k= eys=94, per request. AFAIK, the auth mechanisms (the two just mentioned + = X.509 certs) are the minimally viable set.=0A= =0A= =0A= I do not know if TLS1.3 works with raw public keys - I have not seen that d= ocumented.=0A= =0A= PSK support changes with TLS1.3. Its prime use AFAICT is session resumptio= n and there are now constraints on its use, such as not using a key with an= y other version of TLS ie one PSK for TLS1.2 (or earlier) and a different o= ne for TLS1.3. Also, a given TLS1.3 PSK should only be used with a single = hash algorithm. This may or may not be in the YANG module but needs a ment= ion IMHO.=0A= =0A= So yes, there are things to wonder about with authentication in TLS1.3 beca= use it is so different.=0A= =0A= =0A= In a similar vein, TLS 1.3 is keen to ship application data before the hand= shake is complete, before authentication has happened, which causes problem= s for applications which want the handshake and authentication to complete = first. I see NETCONF as being such an application and the I-D needs to add= ress that, as it is being addressed by other WG.=0A= =0A= Is that really true? How is it not considered a security hole in the proto= col?! I agree that it=92s undesirable, but it=92s unclear what text could = be added to the =93tis-client-server=94, =93netconf-client-server=94 or =93= restconf-client-server=94 drafts to address this. Please advise.=0A= =0A= =0A= I am not sure which part of my post you are querying but yes, data ships be= fore authentication is complete and the application must cater for that. A= FAICT the driver for this is HTTPS, or a number of large web providers, who= want to improve the customer experience by eliminating round trips which c= reates a security hole which the application then has to plug. This is no = problem for HTTP but I think will be for most other protocols, such as NETC= ONF, but this is a general TLS problem so I think belongs in this I-D as a = security hole.=0A= =0A= EAP fell into the hole needing to know when authentication was complete and= not realising that they could not tell with TLS1.3. It was the IESG who s= potted this and there is now an addition to EAP to tell it when the handsha= ke is really complete as opposed to gone far =0A= enough to meet the needs of HTTPS. draft-ietf-eap-emu-tls-13 gets it wrong= , -15 fixes it, a topic of much discussion last December and January on the= TLS list.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= Thanks,=0A= Kent=0A= =0A= From nobody Wed May 12 17:13:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328573A1C15 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bhe_gIOK4QdC for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com (mail-pf1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD5B13A1C0A for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id b21so12942684pft.10 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=41feCcovjbvqi/T2Rk6JBRCk+15asPz74KrYim6mRKc=; b=ZVHkjz04yrV6ord3JvSkT2azXpCZ5KHj/rnVrJloCtaD3Vt7crXC5Y2DMfyAK+2G22 yg7nCBvKlgV7l3+WsbQXyb+cxj8HVMKbStnx2OVE3u9hUX24pCBsxslO+/R9IX+uV5CP w2+4LAzlHgt0cL42fd3CDfjtIpN14qJ8yWwlYIODSkaZel9Yz+zAkaDHBeik75zoPcSR 0ADGLQ34xF/p5OaaUsaOYbXdfvSoYDoW/cGH/Z8hEjN8A1QRMlirgIn/KIg3EhIlP9si /g32yW4Vd3ZTOoP9OHWkBhKW0TDfaKgG2VpzLsicWwK8cxQNnUGtsaihTVgzKwb0xr3Z UVmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=41feCcovjbvqi/T2Rk6JBRCk+15asPz74KrYim6mRKc=; b=RdHloj2RWUi66XIEavB/8oe6Q9InMCoq467127QGCwgIuq3oaSMTqndq7wB7TvLMEn fGWPF6lTz6MTPCoQoUtLlE7N7ovOyvGL0PfoTFd5F2HxuuCdwOA+urWa8CtbpMdFloV3 dpOR6BxbevjMv8RHzSv7nsGUTgcAHb+K+ooVm7K6sQjVSOcez/PfWcZ10HWla0RMlzUx QnHGolGnJSXkKwTEwvCHRw6GW5RM9XlduiEyiHjGTL/H3JdQr7xIJclGYWpWzBIBs2nt Bt/RctOzoWBqlz1akguzKYwJo1RF9mHsNVyzOh7vkjBKvOqW0kmF84MCqpn0hgQsrMdT rS8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532yvrcegpgUQgTBX3VoMSM5sRxXj1RV2WvdDJijrX/Gm9sn0YlD rsd5H2EnsyM7XmK/Xz6o1ItKR0mpdoAs9Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwkbWIT4HFPQ6+Gc6FhUTOuMbYJRyD64LWDD5SLOcKIck4MTXk2w6D/Mhajc+XK1Acq+QDaVQ== X-Received: by 2002:a65:52c7:: with SMTP id z7mr17042987pgp.60.1620864800696; Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5600:5020:81ba:e539:277c:7f6? ([2601:647:5600:5020:81ba:e539:277c:7f6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n30sm756889pgd.8.2021.05.12.17.13.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <14B1DEE4-3EB4-4512-A724-DF37BC2B19F7@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_680B7118-9C6E-43B8-99EA-36B49AED0807" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 17:13:18 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 00:13:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_680B7118-9C6E-43B8-99EA-36B49AED0807 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Qin, When Kent and I started working on the HTTPs notif draft we wanted to = make sure that it was lightweight as it relates to setting it up. That = means that if the publisher and receiver are HTTPS capable, that in most = cases that is all that isneeded to establish the notification channel. = To quite an extent that is still true. With default values (JSON = encoding), one can setup a HTTPS notification channel by configuring the = *publisher* where the receiver resides (its IP address) and any = credentials that are needed to setup the channel. The receiver does not = need to be configured, and as such does not need to be a = NETCONF/RESTCONF server (or a client for that matter). Cheers. > On May 11, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > Hi, Kent: > Sorry for late follow up. > On Apr 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > =20 > Dear WG, > =20 > One of the outcomes from =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D presentation = during the NETCONF 110 session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., = https, udp, etc.) drafts should define their own capability-fetching = mechanism, or use the mechanism defined by the = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft. > =20 > As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the PROs and CONs of the = approaches as follows: > [Qin]:I am under impression that shared-mechanism has a lot of = benefit.:-) > PROs (for having a shared-mechanism): > Enables a common mechanism spanning multiple notif transports to exist=20= > CONs (against having a shared mechanism): > Entails each receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF = server > [Qin]:Is receiver in this context = NETCONF/RESTCONF server or client?=20 > I think we mix two things, > a. one is the server advertise its capability to the client , = (i.e., server capability advertisement) > b. the other is server send the capability query request the = client and get capability response from the client. (client capability = fetching) > I think data-export-capabilities right = now focuses on (a), the question you ask here is whether (b) can be = defined as shared mechanism which can be part of > the "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D = draft. If my understanding is correct, I think it will be nice to have = (b) such shared mechanism, i.e., Defining (a) and (b) in a single place. > Whereas a notif-specific solution can be optimized on a per-protocol = basis. > FWIW, if RC, the receiver COULD minimally support *just* the single = GET request (i.e., not a complete RC server) > Still, networking/firewall would have to support the outbound NC/RC = flow, in addition to the base notification flow > [Qin]: "data-export-capabilities " draft uses = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 as basis or foundation. = If my understanding is correct, draft-ietf-netconf- = notification-capabilities-16 doesn=E2=80=99t >=20 > require receiver to support NETCONF or RESTCONF. >=20 > Potentially extends the number of capabilities to be more than = minimally necessary > e.g., the current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules define = dozens of capabilities supporting RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not = needed for https-notif, > [Qin] Dozens of capabilities = defined by the current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules are = all optional capability. It doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capabilities = to be supported. > when RFC 8639 is not in use. > HTTPS-Notif seems to need only three capabilities: > What encodings are supported (json, xml, binary) > If the RFC 8639 state machine is supported. > If bundled messages is supported. > [Qin]: So HTTPs-notif can pick those = three capabilities and ignore other capabilities. I believe HTTP has = mechanism to deal with these unhandled capabilities advertised by the = network device. One of such example is unhandled > Namespace defined in = (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-regext-unhandled-namespa= ces-07 = ) > Presumably, UDP-Notif would similarly have a small set of capacities. > In fact, it may be less, as UDP may be unable to support RFC 8639 > [Qin]: See clarification above. For UDP notif, it = doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capability to be supported. > =20 > Thoughts? > =20 > Kent and Mahesh // as authors > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_680B7118-9C6E-43B8-99EA-36B49AED0807 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Qin,

When Kent and I = started working on the HTTPs notif draft we wanted to make sure that it = was lightweight as it relates to setting it up. That means that if the = publisher and receiver are HTTPS capable, that in = most cases that is all that isneeded to establish the notification = channel. To quite an extent that is still true. With default values = (JSON encoding), one can setup a HTTPS notification channel by = configuring the *publisher* where the receiver resides = (its IP address) and any credentials that are needed to setup the = channel. The receiver does not need to be configured, and as such does = not need to be a NETCONF/RESTCONF server (or a client for that = matter).

Cheers.

On May 11, 2021, at 6:51 PM, = Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi, Kent:
Sorry for late follow = up.
On Apr 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, = Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:
 
Dear = WG,
 
One of = the outcomes from =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D presentation during the = NETCONF 110 session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., https, udp, = etc.) drafts should define their own capability-fetching mechanism, or = use the mechanism defined by the "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D = draft.
 
As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the PROs and CONs = of the approaches as follows:
[Qin]:I am under = impression that shared-mechanism has a lot of benefit.:-)
  • PROs (for having a = shared-mechanism):
    • Enables a common = mechanism spanning multiple notif transports to exist 
  • CONs (against = having a shared mechanism):
    • Entails each = receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF server
          &nb= sp;            = ;         [Qin]:Is receiver = in this context NETCONF/RESTCONF server or client? 
          &nb= sp;            = ;           I = think we mix two things,
a.       one is the server = advertise its capability to the client , (i.e., server capability = advertisement)
b.       the other is server = send the capability query request the client and get capability response = from the client. (client capability fetching)
          &nb= sp;            = ;         I think = data-export-capabilities right now focuses on (a), the question you ask = here is whether (b) can be defined as shared mechanism which can be part = of
          &nb= sp;            = ;         the = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft. If my understanding is = correct, I think it will be nice to have (b) such shared mechanism, = i.e., Defining (a) and (b) in a single place.
      • Whereas a notif-specific solution can be optimized on a = per-protocol basis.
      • FWIW, = if RC, the receiver COULD minimally support *just* the single GET = request (i.e., not a complete RC server)
      • Still, networking/firewall would have to = support the outbound NC/RC flow, in addition to the base notification = flow

          &nb= sp;        [Qin]: = "data-export-capabilities " draft uses = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 as basis or foundation. = If my understanding is correct, draft-ietf-netconf- = notification-capabilities-16 doesn=E2=80=99t

require receiver to support NETCONF or =   RESTCONF.

    • Potentially extends the number of capabilities to be more = than minimally necessary
      • e.g., the = current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules define = dozens of capabilities supporting RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not = needed for https-notif,
          &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; [Qin] Dozens of capabilities defined by the = current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules are all = optional capability. It doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capabilities to = be supported.
when RFC 8639 is not in = use.
        • HTTPS-Notif seems = to need only three capabilities:
          1. What encodings are = supported (json, xml, binary)
          2. If = the RFC 8639 state machine is supported.
          3. If bundled messages is supported.
          &nb= sp;            = ;           [Qin]: = So HTTPs-notif can pick those three capabilities and ignore other = capabilities.  I believe HTTP has mechanism to deal with these = unhandled capabilities advertised by the network device.  One of = such example is unhandled
Namespace defined in (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-regext-unhandl= ed-namespaces-07)
        • Presumably, = UDP-Notif would similarly have a small set of capacities.
          • In fact, it may be = less, as UDP may be unable to support RFC 8639
          &nb= sp;  [Qin]: See clarification above. For UDP notif, it = doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capability to be supported.
 
Thoughts?
 
Kent and Mahesh  // as authors
 
 
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Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





= --Apple-Mail=_680B7118-9C6E-43B8-99EA-36B49AED0807-- From nobody Wed May 12 23:48:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4003A2A44 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 23:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ZU_s6wDIcVQ for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 23:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B56D63A2A43 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 23:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4FghsT53MDz6fsd3; Thu, 13 May 2021 14:42:05 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.47.65.224] (10.47.65.224) by fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2176.2; Thu, 13 May 2021 08:48:03 +0200 To: Kent Watsen , tom petch CC: "netconf@ietf.org" References: <972-608a4700-29-1b90d060@24617716> <010001791de3029b-730530a6-f4fb-4d57-9d39-a1551ab76260-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001795c69dcf8-0d94c645-4824-4dca-a1d1-c88d1d2e8f1e-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <056472d9-3fc2-3361-b997-728d8ad76beb@huawei.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 08:48:08 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <010001795c69dcf8-0d94c645-4824-4dca-a1d1-c88d1d2e8f1e-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [10.47.65.224] X-ClientProxiedBy: dggems702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.179) To fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Latest ietf-netconf-server draft and related modules X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 06:48:13 -0000 Hi, > >> I suspect that the IESG will not accept any support for 1.0 or 1.1 >> given the existence of an RFC deprecating them and that this I-D >> should not go further than putting in place hooks with which an >> organisation could augment such support if they wanted to, but even >> that may be going too far. > > Disagree.  It's one thing to say that a protocol is deprecated and > another to say that the configuration for a still somewhat-widely used > deprecated-protocol is deprecated. > +1. Regards, Benoit From nobody Thu May 13 01:28:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58EA53A2F30 for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 01:28:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TlnqzNTfUEEC for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 01:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CD3D3A2F70 for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 01:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml712-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Fgkxv1r1Sz6qn6W; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:16:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeml751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.150) by fraeml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.61) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2176.2; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:27:24 +0200 Received: from dggeml753-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.152) by dggeml751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2176.2; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:27:22 +0800 Received: from dggeml753-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.152]) by dggeml753-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.152]) with mapi id 15.01.2176.012; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:27:22 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Mahesh Jethanandani CC: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms Thread-Index: AddH0Dhnx9H5N4HXTcmORZebNJclOA== Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 08:27:21 +0000 Message-ID: <531c9709c5da4980922aa31e53684d01@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_531c9709c5da4980922aa31e53684d01huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 08:28:17 -0000 --_000_531c9709c5da4980922aa31e53684d01huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBNYWhlc2ggSmV0aGFuYW5kYW5pIFttYWlsdG86bWpldGhhbmFuZGFuaUBnbWFp 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15.20.4108.031; Thu, 13 May 2021 15:39:56 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: Jernej Tuljak , Netconf Thread-Topic: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? 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Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 16:04:38 -0000 On 13. 05. 21 17:39, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > The concept of "deviation module" is a bit odd IMO in RFC8525. > > Deviation statements can sit in any module and can be mixed in a module that declares other schema nodes (containers, lists, etc). > > Maybe it is a nice idea for authors to gather deviations into modules that contain nothing but deviation statements, but that would just be a convention of how to organize your modules. Nothing in the specs really requires that. Right, I never really understood why the "deviation" leaf-list was needed in the first place, given that it is completely redundant. It just creates ambiguous situations: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/BPVPQf-I9p-1C1K5NLmSsk0K_D8/ Lada > > Jason > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netconf On Behalf Of Jernej Tuljak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:44 AM >> To: Netconf >> Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist >> without a module entry? >> >> Somehow it slipped my mind that require-instance defaults to true in >> YANG 1.1. Everything checks out. >> >> A server implementation that announces a deviation module in the >> "/yang-library/module-set/module/deviation" leaf-list, but lacks a >> corresponding entry in "/yang-library/module-set/module" list is >> non-RFC8525 compliant. >> >> Jernej >> >> On 12/05/2021 11:18, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> is there a particular reason for the deviation leaf-list in >>> ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 not having require-instance true for its >>> leafref path, therefore allowing servers to report "incomplete" module >>> sets/schemas to the client? >>> >>>      grouping module-implementation-parameters { >>>        description >>>          "Parameters for describing the implementation of a module."; >>>        leaf-list feature { >>>          type yang:yang-identifier; >>>          description >>>            "List of all YANG feature names from this module that are >>>             supported by the server, regardless whether they are defined >>>             in the module or any included submodule."; >>>        } >>>        leaf-list deviation { >>>          type leafref { >>>            path "../../module/name"; >>>          } >>> >>>          description >>>            "List of all YANG deviation modules used by this server to >>>             modify the conformance of the module associated with this >>>             entry.  Note that the same module can be used for deviations >>>             for multiple modules, so the same entry MAY appear within >>>             multiple 'module' entries. >>> >>>             This reference MUST NOT (directly or indirectly) >>>             refer to the module being deviated. >>> >>>             Robust clients may want to make sure that they handle a >>>             situation where a module deviates itself (directly or >>>             indirectly) gracefully."; >>>        } >>>      } >>> >>> Why are deviation modules allowed to exist without a module entry >>> within YANG Library instances? Why would a server choose to withhold >>> namespace information for a deviation module? >>> >>> Jernej >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing list >>> netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu May 13 10:38:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F7A3A16EE for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:38:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.886 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.886 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YaIPXmL_ULgx for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02B5E3A16ED for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id i9so33056228lfe.13 for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KGEkraCcQSKtrcmGLco17n+xz9fhSolWySs3y3uugF0=; b=tZqwXZia9GlF/py7k9WidfQzRp9b0zGtC+3sMMxPpBWTxQetucFdYIsg9B/PozMEQw LEpUV92djOqaU3uKOfPY57v2JHJPx8YnLW5qCssnotpTiLZJSDS2zF1ub6BOYzgNXzPO /2OoyxNAQ87DHkYw2OF/qpZo9Ibm8Rx6Ce6pC2H73A58SSN0dx3ykw8nR1q4r8l2qsb1 ogXJ8iHUkD31kN7EmLZd2wjfLqpRrUvJcO5aUt92SQIxswuo6Jri+SBqSfv93NrWfyk+ z0YBjhCAT31RUokVpj7fnjbMySdAcf8CB1zhIMrUXzhhGh/sZc0UhBD+0AaClwdNo6rY aErw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KGEkraCcQSKtrcmGLco17n+xz9fhSolWySs3y3uugF0=; b=EmomzzdWI54Gx20mGOXjHfQnzWzcZ7PLUW16PwQTLh+H3uf7Z7Ij/G/KwIOx9Qh5VV pSN/Pp2T07ANH2gIRTN0Pg8w/qGNMCFbr1EyAZHs9Mdy26vnRblUlGZpmGITcWM3iHLX aVg6qM2Hc4ncAg5OwrQJ0D2Sw4Y8fA7UIPBFwMb3Vp8zn1DIIx4P8WKKwKwRnR1Ua4qD M5igg+6CsGSATk4/2NxFJ7kWSigDZGVFCR0AkP/yPxIMOA8PQQqz8dL8Us4Sc7UyFvuj vN+38CVg/rt102qkDzDP4Qr8fDL+U/IeJ9jqYLxC81+9xTGTyNdDOVOM2AEguoQ3QCBs ntlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Rl+DmxiWnVARxOcGV7ee4M9zXKdPCm3/Fx7cRQl0Y7+FjP2Sc AeUOOac4TFLBVAQdQ8tvWVt8/YYQ/jg/ZxtJeSVoxw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxmtSNyg9YjFVekZ+2BvQ8kulZmWJt1Eif/EX8QuD7mucWj5V55ePjPpQMll+G6NkwovSh8ulRSuFW4Y7SAFH0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:3f93:: with SMTP id m141mr18477442lfa.553.1620927512687; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:38:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6b520a21-02a7-a41e-caac-fe8dc38a1a9d@mg-soft.si> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 10:38:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000099ce3b05c23998d4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 17:38:41 -0000 --00000000000099ce3b05c23998d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 9:04 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > On 13. 05. 21 17:39, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > The concept of "deviation module" is a bit odd IMO in RFC8525. > > > > Deviation statements can sit in any module and can be mixed in a module > that declares other schema nodes (containers, lists, etc). > > > > Maybe it is a nice idea for authors to gather deviations into modules > that contain nothing but deviation statements, but that would just be a > convention of how to organize your modules. Nothing in the specs really > requires that. > > Right, I never really understood why the "deviation" leaf-list was > needed in the first place, given that it is completely redundant. It > just creates ambiguous situations: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/BPVPQf-I9p-1C1K5NLmSsk0K_D8/ > > +1 (!) The deviation list helps compilers know where to find the deviations for the target module being compiled. But they cannot really rely on it for many reasons. I tried to get the WG to use a separate deviations module instead of allowing deviations for anything to be mixed in any regular module. (But YANG is supposed to be easy for readers, almost easy for writers, and almost impossible for tool makers ;-) In reality vendors are struggling with the complex mix of overlapping standards, proprietary extensions, platform and version specific deviations, and implementation-specific annotations. But at least they do not mix deviations and regular statements in the same module. (One thing I never hear from customers: "Please make YANG even more complicated. We love a good challenge.") Lada > > Andy > > > > Jason > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: netconf On Behalf Of Jernej Tuljak > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:44 AM > >> To: Netconf > >> Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist > >> without a module entry? > >> > >> Somehow it slipped my mind that require-instance defaults to true in > >> YANG 1.1. Everything checks out. > >> > >> A server implementation that announces a deviation module in the > >> "/yang-library/module-set/module/deviation" leaf-list, but lacks a > >> corresponding entry in "/yang-library/module-set/module" list is > >> non-RFC8525 compliant. > >> > >> Jernej > >> > >> On 12/05/2021 11:18, Jernej Tuljak wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> is there a particular reason for the deviation leaf-list in > >>> ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 not having require-instance true for its > >>> leafref path, therefore allowing servers to report "incomplete" module > >>> sets/schemas to the client? > >>> > >>> grouping module-implementation-parameters { > >>> description > >>> "Parameters for describing the implementation of a module."; > >>> leaf-list feature { > >>> type yang:yang-identifier; > >>> description > >>> "List of all YANG feature names from this module that are > >>> supported by the server, regardless whether they are > defined > >>> in the module or any included submodule."; > >>> } > >>> leaf-list deviation { > >>> type leafref { > >>> path "../../module/name"; > >>> } > >>> > >>> description > >>> "List of all YANG deviation modules used by this server to > >>> modify the conformance of the module associated with this > >>> entry. Note that the same module can be used for > deviations > >>> for multiple modules, so the same entry MAY appear within > >>> multiple 'module' entries. > >>> > >>> This reference MUST NOT (directly or indirectly) > >>> refer to the module being deviated. > >>> > >>> Robust clients may want to make sure that they handle a > >>> situation where a module deviates itself (directly or > >>> indirectly) gracefully."; > >>> } > >>> } > >>> > >>> Why are deviation modules allowed to exist without a module entry > >>> within YANG Library instances? Why would a server choose to withhold > >>> namespace information for a deviation module? > >>> > >>> Jernej > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> netconf mailing list > >>> netconf@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netconf mailing list > >> netconf@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > _______________________________________________ > > netconf mailing list > > netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --00000000000099ce3b05c23998d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 9:04 AM Ladis= lav Lhotka <ladislav.lhotka@ni= c.cz> wrote:


On 13. 05. 21 17:39, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:
> The concept of "deviation module" is a bit odd IMO in RFC852= 5.
>
> Deviation statements can sit in any module and can be mixed in a modul= e that declares other schema nodes (containers, lists, etc).
>
> Maybe it is a nice idea for authors to gather deviations into modules = that contain nothing but deviation statements, but that would just be a con= vention of how to organize your modules. Nothing in the specs really requir= es that.

Right, I never really understood why the "deviation" leaf-list wa= s
needed in the first place, given that it is completely redundant. It
just creates ambiguous situations:

https://mailarchive.ietf.o= rg/arch/msg/netconf/BPVPQf-I9p-1C1K5NLmSsk0K_D8/


+1 (!)

Th= e deviation list helps compilers know where to find the deviations for the = target module being compiled.
But they cannot really rely on it f= or many reasons.

I tried to get the WG to use a se= parate deviations module instead of allowing
deviations for anyth= ing to be mixed in any regular module.
(But YANG is supposed to b= e easy for readers, almost easy for writers,
and almost impossibl= e for tool makers ;-)

In reality vendors are strug= gling with the complex mix of overlapping standards,
proprietary = extensions, platform and version specific deviations, and implementation-sp= ecific annotations.
But at least they do not mix deviations and r= egular statements in the same module.

(One thing I= never hear from customers:=C2=A0
"Please make YANG even mor= e complicated.=C2=A0 We love a good challenge.")

<= div>
Lada


Andy
=C2=A0
>
> Jason
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jernej Tuljak >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:44 AM
>> To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may ex= ist
>> without a module entry?
>>
>> Somehow it slipped my mind that require-instance defaults to true = in
>> YANG 1.1. Everything checks out.
>>
>> A server implementation that announces a deviation module in the >> "/yang-library/module-set/module/deviation" leaf-list, b= ut lacks a
>> corresponding entry in "/yang-library/module-set/module"= list is
>> non-RFC8525 compliant.
>>
>> Jernej
>>
>> On 12/05/2021 11:18, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> is there a particular reason for the deviation leaf-list in >>> ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 not having require-instance true = for its
>>> leafref path, therefore allowing servers to report "incom= plete" module
>>> sets/schemas to the client?
>>>
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 grouping module-implementation-parame= ters {
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Paramet= ers for describing the implementation of a module.";
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 leaf-list feature {
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 type yang:yan= g-identifier;
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &= quot;List of all YANG feature names from this module that are
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 supported by the server, regardless whether they are defined
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 in the module or any included submodule.";
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 leaf-list deviation {
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 type leafref = {
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 p= ath "../../module/name";
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
>>>
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &= quot;List of all YANG deviation modules used by this server to
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 modify the conformance of the module associated with this
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 entry.=C2=A0 Note that the same module can be used for deviations >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 for multiple modules, so the same entry MAY appear within
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 multiple 'module' entries.
>>>
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 This reference MUST NOT (directly or indirectly)
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 refer to the module being deviated.
>>>
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Robust clients may want to make sure that they handle a
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 situation where a module deviates itself (directly or
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 indirectly) gracefully.";
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
>>>
>>> Why are deviation modules allowed to exist without a module en= try
>>> within YANG Library instances? Why would a server choose to wi= thhold
>>> namespace information for a deviation module?
>>>
>>> Jernej
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> netconf mailing list
>>> netconf@= ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net= conf
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> netconf mailing list
>> netconf@ietf= .org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= /a>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br> >

--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
--00000000000099ce3b05c23998d4-- From nobody Fri May 14 00:07:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847B13A267E for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 00:07:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mg-soft.si Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LiCXsfoNs05w for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 00:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CD73A267D for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 00:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (teleport2.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.254]) by galileo.mg-soft.si (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA05C41754A; Fri, 14 May 2021 09:07:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 galileo.mg-soft.si BFA05C41754A DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg-soft.si; s=default; t=1620976059; bh=mwMSq/STVZFVOVu29PCdqSoz1B0BObCwpl30jugA1Iw=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Gl6lJT3qZ3jHAdF/8/uwhcP5dIGINcmYWpLwQAH29WObGLjHp9D6bE/n1ttue7lwD aqSWPsw3RR5aDZGMd76OqygK+NxjewaHwvPiiS+pfIsfk48OhL8Ox1WJdIEXgwpzFD wZ0a85MscCAP0U01zWjnt+iX597clsTA+cCEvRumq64MVSXT0KrJUWOL408ymsdjMq sD1yZrUFbgpBReKwUn0TKaOgRklLJqxiy0HVkk0ZcT52Irbz6bV00Drw8QOGPDDCHX vvLjNoFIM9t3ECel+yiTBAOIXbYYK7TuMNRuIgbCD+kuc4fHqMmpBkYMQxV0V23kPP 7vjFEu5sGTvNQ== To: Ladislav Lhotka , netconf@ietf.org References: <6b520a21-02a7-a41e-caac-fe8dc38a1a9d@mg-soft.si> From: Jernej Tuljak Message-ID: <9b051624-c45e-0929-3b74-4549319301dd@mg-soft.si> Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 09:07:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 07:07:52 -0000 On 13/05/2021 18:04, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 13. 05. 21 17:39, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: >> The concept of "deviation module" is a bit odd IMO in RFC8525. >> >> Deviation statements can sit in any module and can be mixed in a module that declares other schema nodes (containers, lists, etc). >> >> Maybe it is a nice idea for authors to gather deviations into modules that contain nothing but deviation statements, but that would just be a convention of how to organize your modules. Nothing in the specs really requires that. > Right, I never really understood why the "deviation" leaf-list was > needed in the first place, given that it is completely redundant. It > just creates ambiguous situations: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/BPVPQf-I9p-1C1K5NLmSsk0K_D8/ Perhaps this was an attempt to ensure the order of applying deviation modules to the target module, which may be relevant in some cases (that are bad practice and should be avoided anyway). We encountered a couple of implementations that do the opposite of what you (Ladislav) pointed out in that archive thread - they only list deviation modules in the "leaf-list"... Another potential caveat: because of the way the "path" expression for this "leafref" is defined ("../../module/name" as opposed to "../../../module-set/module/name"), you cannot put a module that contains deviations in one module-set as an implementation module and reference it in another module-set via this "leaf-list's" value.             deviations               foo-devs         urn:foo:devs                     common               foo         urn:foo         foo-devs               // ...   The above instance is not valid according to the model, which I think is fine, but may be confusing for some, especially if you consider "referential completeness"  of "imports", which only need to become complete once woven into a schema list entry, as stated in several "description" texts. Jernej > > Lada > >> Jason >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: netconf On Behalf Of Jernej Tuljak >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:44 AM >>> To: Netconf >>> Subject: Re: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist >>> without a module entry? >>> >>> Somehow it slipped my mind that require-instance defaults to true in >>> YANG 1.1. Everything checks out. >>> >>> A server implementation that announces a deviation module in the >>> "/yang-library/module-set/module/deviation" leaf-list, but lacks a >>> corresponding entry in "/yang-library/module-set/module" list is >>> non-RFC8525 compliant. >>> >>> Jernej >>> >>> On 12/05/2021 11:18, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> is there a particular reason for the deviation leaf-list in >>>> ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 not having require-instance true for its >>>> leafref path, therefore allowing servers to report "incomplete" module >>>> sets/schemas to the client? >>>> >>>>      grouping module-implementation-parameters { >>>>        description >>>>          "Parameters for describing the implementation of a module."; >>>>        leaf-list feature { >>>>          type yang:yang-identifier; >>>>          description >>>>            "List of all YANG feature names from this module that are >>>>             supported by the server, regardless whether they are defined >>>>             in the module or any included submodule."; >>>>        } >>>>        leaf-list deviation { >>>>          type leafref { >>>>            path "../../module/name"; >>>>          } >>>> >>>>          description >>>>            "List of all YANG deviation modules used by this server to >>>>             modify the conformance of the module associated with this >>>>             entry.  Note that the same module can be used for deviations >>>>             for multiple modules, so the same entry MAY appear within >>>>             multiple 'module' entries. >>>> >>>>             This reference MUST NOT (directly or indirectly) >>>>             refer to the module being deviated. >>>> >>>>             Robust clients may want to make sure that they handle a >>>>             situation where a module deviates itself (directly or >>>>             indirectly) gracefully."; >>>>        } >>>>      } >>>> >>>> Why are deviation modules allowed to exist without a module entry >>>> within YANG Library instances? Why would a server choose to withhold >>>> namespace information for a deviation module? >>>> >>>> Jernej >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netconf mailing list >>>> netconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing list >>> netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> From nobody Mon May 17 14:47:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D81C3A4641 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HTsz97CglGge for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61E1E3A463D for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id b15-20020a17090a550fb029015dad75163dso421012pji.0 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=/TAxNwNcXotvg5+0E02/5KgFy5gFJHzNTxAk4IdtRtw=; b=O2fY02DA5rynEK2Tbsezg4KYXlt7aZd0x0VvZjfCZUkazUcVxYbTccVrHD3K0pP2Ze O97Gj+CmoLZa8sOqOzPBXyl6mZimYNufh1m/ySkO2WAAPZrD3rMwl6UFWnKPKRWrlVjf EvPpaEAGhIyT7ePMd5q5WwtYsaPhkNERcXIhp8o9XR22BezwWUKK1wxmwDDe23wfIEf1 xxb3EJ5iRXO0FlyIzX7NuZB4og0IBx3ybCffmqcwPTfGPY9EdRjoWyLyA7p7reDKGzZK MJQe+qVigtpt4T0onvUpvinxAU/+PcWWQmDYJ8VhVWIe5Ldd9HuMC9Yoic7AkJJiHCqb fARg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=/TAxNwNcXotvg5+0E02/5KgFy5gFJHzNTxAk4IdtRtw=; b=IMz1mr+dF3ecQSLW3FEvZugxuDt6URC6oddu5uzQhwQuJgf94VKnIG4XOJV7CjMj+b d/eqboFtuWO/5+PPEEVEohBKW4KvV76otvgdY5Phh8fGW4X5mKDaUFqywYFmlzqxSEbu COUOlXJkiCN8Pkh2d/mFhZR6VuFMoqtw/hyYfTDz8h+3r+T5fzKJG8eAbT9xVeknOh4I nz/3TJf761BysTFsHnDND3v9X/Q5PsOcTdFg5aLvomixEVSJRW64CfKwknyynafUO0Io exu6QaUPxKLyRS2kdtEKp6Nvpj46SSTokW1rYqN9CUcthGFzhawVoEeQa/+N4Drab96l yLwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532gog8CYbQ0fnYUSIxJ5UwBXM2km34NmxeR3g/GKjN0boy5hruB K2SlhjcFumK7CdrKBb5gWjzQJp2uKtFbig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqr3QhuUF2wJZiJlwDGXpd+PtUEKX5b9pTcDG58H8Vz6YBIeauOeGx0opEvKofSwQgjoYvZQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:4147:: with SMTP id m7mr1214022pjg.7.1621288070960; Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5600:5020:bccb:929a:9858:4f92? ([2601:647:5600:5020:bccb:929a:9858:4f92]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h18sm1402259pfr.49.2021.05.17.14.47.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <093691D6-C21E-4817-B489-DE9803F36FA6@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_64D87F51-F9FE-4435-B6E6-788595F78D2D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 14:47:46 -0700 In-Reply-To: <531c9709c5da4980922aa31e53684d01@huawei.com> Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: <531c9709c5da4980922aa31e53684d01@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 21:47:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_64D87F51-F9FE-4435-B6E6-788595F78D2D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Qin, > On May 13, 2021, at 1:27 AM, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Mahesh Jethanandani = [mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com ]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5= 8:13 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Kent Watsen >; netconf@ietf.org = > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms > =20 > Hi Qin, > =20 > When Kent and I started working on the HTTPs notif draft we wanted to = make sure that it was lightweight as it relates to setting it up. That = means that if the publisher and receiver are HTTPS capable, that in most = cases that is all that isneeded to establish the notification channel. = To quite an extent that is still true. With default values (JSON = encoding), one can setup a HTTPS notification channel by configuring the = *publisher* where the receiver resides (its IP address) and any = credentials that are needed to setup the channel. The receiver does not = need to be configured, and as such does not need to be a = NETCONF/RESTCONF server (or a client for that matter). > =20 > [Qin]: Thanks for your clarification, I think in appendix using = subscribed notification and not using subscribed notification are both = supported. > In the case of using subscribed notification, RFC8639 enabled = capability is supported while in the case without using subscribed = notification, RFC8639 enabled capability is not supported? > In the first case, the publisher need to be NETCONF/RESTCONF server? = In the second case, it is not. Right? [mj] The fact that the publisher has to be a NETCONF/RESTCONF server was = never in dispute. The question is whether the receiver needs to be a = NETCONF/RESTCONF server. As maqiufang wrote in his response, if the = receiver supports the data-export-capabilities draft, then it would need = to be a NETCONF/RESTCONF server, whereas with the https-notif draft that = is not the case. This is the case whether the receiver supports RFC 8639 = or not. Please note that RFC 8639 receivers do not have to be NETCONF/RESTCONF = servers for configured subscriptions. RFC 8639, Section 2.7 defines the = control messages such as using one-way YANG = =E2=80=9Cnotification=E2=80=9D statements. Thanks > =20 > Cheers. >=20 >=20 > On May 11, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Qin Wu > wrote: > =20 > Hi, Kent: > Sorry for late follow up. > On Apr 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > =20 > Dear WG, > =20 > One of the outcomes from =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D presentation = during the NETCONF 110 session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., = https, udp, etc.) drafts should define their own capability-fetching = mechanism, or use the mechanism defined by the = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft. > =20 > As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the PROs and CONs of the = approaches as follows: > [Qin]:I am under impression that shared-mechanism has a lot of = benefit.:-) > PROs (for having a shared-mechanism): > Enables a common mechanism spanning multiple notif transports to exist=20= > CONs (against having a shared mechanism): > Entails each receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF = server > [Qin]:Is receiver in this context = NETCONF/RESTCONF server or client?=20 > I think we mix two things, > a. one is the server advertise its capability to the client , = (i.e., server capability advertisement) > b. the other is server send the capability query request the = client and get capability response from the client. (client capability = fetching) > I think data-export-capabilities right = now focuses on (a), the question you ask here is whether (b) can be = defined as shared mechanism which can be part of > the "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D = draft. If my understanding is correct, I think it will be nice to have = (b) such shared mechanism, i.e., Defining (a) and (b) in a single place. > Whereas a notif-specific solution can be optimized on a per-protocol = basis. > FWIW, if RC, the receiver COULD minimally support *just* the single = GET request (i.e., not a complete RC server) > Still, networking/firewall would have to support the outbound NC/RC = flow, in addition to the base notification flow > [Qin]: "data-export-capabilities " draft uses = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 as basis or foundation. = If my understanding is correct, draft-ietf-netconf- = notification-capabilities-16 doesn=E2=80=99t >=20 > require receiver to support NETCONF or RESTCONF. >=20 > Potentially extends the number of capabilities to be more than = minimally necessary > e.g., the current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules define = dozens of capabilities supporting RFC 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not = needed for https-notif, > [Qin] Dozens of capabilities = defined by the current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules are = all optional capability. It doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capabilities = to be supported. > when RFC 8639 is not in use. > HTTPS-Notif seems to need only three capabilities: > What encodings are supported (json, xml, binary) > If the RFC 8639 state machine is supported. > If bundled messages is supported. > [Qin]: So HTTPs-notif can pick those = three capabilities and ignore other capabilities. I believe HTTP has = mechanism to deal with these unhandled capabilities advertised by the = network device. One of such example is unhandled > Namespace defined in = (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-regext-unhandled-namespa= ces-07 = ) > Presumably, UDP-Notif would similarly have a small set of capacities. > In fact, it may be less, as UDP may be unable to support RFC 8639 > [Qin]: See clarification above. For UDP notif, it = doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capability to be supported. > =20 > Thoughts? > =20 > Kent and Mahesh // as authors > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > =20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_64D87F51-F9FE-4435-B6E6-788595F78D2D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Qin,

On May 13, 2021, at 1:27 AM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Mahesh Jethanandani [mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com] 
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5 8:13
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; netconf@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netconf] = Capability-fetching mechanisms
 
Hi Qin,
 
When = Kent and I started working on the HTTPs notif draft we wanted to make = sure that it was lightweight as it relates to setting it up. That means = that if the publisher and receiver are HTTPS capable, that in most cases = that is all that isneeded to establish the notification channel. To = quite an extent that is still true. With default values (JSON encoding), = one can setup a HTTPS notification channel by configuring the *publisher* where the receiver resides (its IP address) = and any credentials that are needed to setup the channel. The receiver = does not need to be configured, and as such does not need to be a = NETCONF/RESTCONF server (or a client for that matter).
 
[Qin]: Thanks = for your clarification, I think in appendix using subscribed = notification and not using subscribed notification are both = supported.
In the case of = using subscribed notification, RFC8639 enabled capability is supported = while in the case without using subscribed notification, RFC8639 enabled = capability is not supported?
In the first case, the publisher need to be NETCONF/RESTCONF = server? In the second case, it is not. = Right?

[mj] The fact that the publisher has to be a = NETCONF/RESTCONF server was never in dispute. The question is whether = the receiver needs to be a NETCONF/RESTCONF server. As maqiufang wrote = in his response, if the receiver supports the data-export-capabilities = draft, then it would need to be a NETCONF/RESTCONF server, whereas with = the https-notif draft that is not the case. This is the case whether the = receiver supports RFC 8639 or not.

Please note that RFC 8639 receivers do not have to = be NETCONF/RESTCONF servers for configured subscriptions. RFC 8639, = Section 2.7 defines the control messages such as = <subscription-started> using one-way YANG =E2=80=9Cnotification=E2=80= =9D statements.

Thanks

 
Cheers.


On May 11, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:
 
Hi, Kent:
Sorry for late = follow up.
On Apr = 19, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:
 
Dear WG,
 
One of the outcomes from =E2=80=9Chttps-notif=E2=80=9D presentation= during the NETCONF 110 session was to what extent all the notif (e.g., = https, udp, etc.) drafts should define their own capability-fetching = mechanism, or use the mechanism defined by the = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft.
 
As authors, Mahesh and I discussed some of the = PROs and CONs of the approaches as follows:
[Qin]:I am under = impression that shared-mechanism has a lot of benefit.:-)
  • PROs = (for having a shared-mechanism):
  • Enables a common mechanism spanning multiple notif = transports to exist 
  • CONs = (against having a shared mechanism):
    • Entails each receiver also needing to be a NETCONF and/or = RESTCONF server
          &nb= sp;            = ;         [Qin]:Is receiver = in this context NETCONF/RESTCONF server or client? 
          &nb= sp;            = ;           I = think we mix two things,
a.       one is the server advertise its capability = to the client , (i.e., server capability advertisement)
b.       the other is server send the capability = query request the client and get capability response from the client. = (client capability fetching)
          &nb= sp;            = ;         I think = data-export-capabilities right now focuses on (a), the question you ask = here is whether (b) can be defined as shared mechanism which can be part = of
          &nb= sp;            = ;         the = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D draft. If my understanding is = correct, I think it will be nice to have (b) such shared mechanism, = i.e., Defining (a) and (b) in a single place.
      • Whereas a notif-specific solution can be = optimized on a per-protocol basis.
      • FWIW, = if RC, the receiver COULD minimally support *just* the single GET = request (i.e., not a complete RC server)
      • Still, networking/firewall would have to = support the outbound NC/RC flow, in addition to the base notification = flow

          &nb= sp;        [Qin]: = "data-export-capabilities " draft uses = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-16 as basis or foundation. = If my understanding is correct, draft-ietf-netconf- = notification-capabilities-16 doesn=E2=80=99t

require receiver to support NETCONF or =   RESTCONF.

    • Potentially extends the number of capabilities to be more = than minimally necessary
      • e.g., the = current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules define dozens of capabilities supporting RFC = 8639 and RFC 8641 that are not needed for https-notif,
          &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; [Qin] Dozens of capabilities defined by the = current "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D modules are all = optional capability. It doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capabilities to = be supported.
when RFC 8639 is not in use.
        • HTTPS-Notif seems to need only three = capabilities:
          1. What = encodings are supported (json, xml, binary)
          2. If the RFC 8639 state machine is = supported.
          3. If bundled messages = is supported.
          &nb= sp;            = ;           [Qin]: = So HTTPs-notif can pick those three capabilities and ignore other = capabilities.  I believe HTTP has mechanism to deal with these = unhandled capabilities advertised by the network device.  One of = such example is unhandled
        • Presumably, UDP-Notif would similarly have a = small set of capacities.
          • In fact, it may be less, as UDP may be = unable to support RFC 8639
          &nb= sp;  [Qin]: See clarification above. For UDP notif, it = doesn=E2=80=99t require all the capability to be supported.
 
Thoughts?
 
Kent and Mahesh  // as authors
 
 
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
 
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
 
Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com
 
 

 

 
<= br class=3D"">
Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





= --Apple-Mail=_64D87F51-F9FE-4435-B6E6-788595F78D2D-- From nobody Mon May 17 15:00:31 2021 Return-Path: <010001797c58025b-fb6d6a97-d7bc-4161-90f6-a0fad771f6ee-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C793A4591 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 15:00:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LTyTAGKjBPN7 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 15:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B775C3A46A5 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 15:00:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621288813; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=a/4HB0IApoLJgx31NOcMxklRamLmvLl0JGm+aATXfxY=; b=NmpMJWbevOI8cfz4ssu6oKX54nYO5dOC2NrnF5L8Zi8BTJsJefV/fasFWc5OagWx gsRUUuzwXl9A9WvHRGijom2sX8fLRwEYwwSic2kj2tYfyWhJScXJ+41XYxSsZdaX7ri DOXKqikZqujiDzpHdIAIl4I7PSgUCR+diMJjnCXg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <010001797c58025b-fb6d6a97-d7bc-4161-90f6-a0fad771f6ee-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_54A79F4D-EDF2-4A04-953A-1E14EFBD5CCE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 22:00:13 +0000 In-Reply-To: <3a058efa22df47239b8d016c6ba9e431@huawei.com> Cc: Wei Wang , Qin Wu , "netconf@ietf.org" To: "maqiufang (A)" References: <3a058efa22df47239b8d016c6ba9e431@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.17-54.240.8.33 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 22:00:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_54A79F4D-EDF2-4A04-953A-1E14EFBD5CCE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Qiufang Ma, > Since data-export-capability draft defines a mechanism to discover a = set of capabilities supported by the NETCONF/RESTCONF server(the network = device, actually). > But in the http-notif draft, what we need to discover is the = receiver's capabilities, rather than the device=E2=80=99s. > So I think the reason Kent said that the receiver must also be a = NETCONF and/or RESTCONF server is that only in this case can the = data-export-capability draft be used as capability discovery on the = http-receiver side. > Please correct me if there exists any misunderstanding.-:) I think that your understanding of the https-notif draft is correct. > =46rom my perspective, The data-export-capability does not have to = require the receiver to function as a NETCONF/RESTCONF server. The = capability discovery mechanism in these two drafts can complement each = other in this case. In other cases, data-export-capability provides the = receiver with an overall acquisition of the transport capabilities = about the device. I=E2=80=99m unclear on each of your sentences above. Could you, for for = sentence, provide more context regarding what you mean? For instance, = how could the data-export-capability draft not imply the receiver be a = NC/RC server? Likewise, how could the two drafts compliment each other? = Also, by mentioning =E2=80=9Cother cases=E2=80=9D, but what is the = =E2=80=9Dfirst=E2=80=9D case that this contrasts to? =20 Thanks K. --Apple-Mail=_54A79F4D-EDF2-4A04-953A-1E14EFBD5CCE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Qiufang Ma,

Since data-export-capability draft defines a mechanism to = discover a set of capabilities supported by the NETCONF/RESTCONF = server(the network device, actually).
But in the http-notif draft, what we need to = discover is the receiver's capabilities, rather than the device=E2=80=99s.=
So I think the reason Kent said that the = receiver must also be a NETCONF and/or RESTCONF server is that only in = this case can the data-export-capability draft be used as capability = discovery on the http-receiver side.
Please correct me if there exists any = misunderstanding.-:)

I think that your understanding of the https-notif = draft is correct.


=46rom my = perspective, The data-export-capability does not have to require the = receiver to function as a NETCONF/RESTCONF server. The capability = discovery mechanism in these two drafts can complement each other in = this case. In other cases, data-export-capability provides the receiver = with an overall  acquisition of the transport capabilities about = the device.


I=E2=80=99m unclear on each = of your sentences above.  Could you, for for sentence, provide more = context regarding what you mean?  For instance, how could the = data-export-capability draft not imply the receiver be a NC/RC server? =  Likewise, how could the two drafts compliment each other? =  Also, by mentioning =E2=80=9Cother cases=E2=80=9D, but what is the = =E2=80=9Dfirst=E2=80=9D case that this contrasts to? =  

Thanks

K.



= --Apple-Mail=_54A79F4D-EDF2-4A04-953A-1E14EFBD5CCE-- From nobody Tue May 18 04:40:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0763A0949 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 04:40:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u-lxgMK8dKRy for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 04:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client 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Mahesh Jethanandani CC: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms Thread-Index: AddL2HWsR2fQuKr/T2WNMl8IjZzG7A== Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 11:40:01 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a8eaedd45bb94109ae4ab48c4c4ec872huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 11:40:25 -0000 --_000_a8eaedd45bb94109ae4ab48c4c4ec872huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIE1haGVzaDoNCg0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBNYWhlc2ggSmV0aGFuYW5kYW5pIFttYWlsdG86bWpl 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18 10:47:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394EA3A1AF0; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:46:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136001912.19554.647342808122441135@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:46:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-20.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:47:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Types and Groupings for Cryptography Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-20.txt Pages : 61 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document presents a YANG 1.1 (RFC 7950) module defining identities, typedefs, and groupings useful to cryptographic applications. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-20.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:48:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D521E3A1B60; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:47:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136007883.29971.14430768781800168264@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:47:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-15.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:48:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for a Truststore Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-15.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines a YANG module for configuring bags of certificates and bags of public keys that can be referenced by other data models for trust. Notifications are sent when certificates are about to expire. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-15.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:49:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A77A3A1AF9; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:49:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136015494.1663.16949695914124351749@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:49:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-22.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:49:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for a Keystore Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-22.txt Pages : 50 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines a YANG module called "ietf-keystore" that enables centralized configuration of both symmetric and asymmetric keys. The secret value for both key types may be encrypted or hidden. Asymmetric keys may be associated with certificates. Notifications are sent when certificates are about to expire. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-22.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-22 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:51:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7F83A1B06; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:51:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136026932.19321.9335283747599102265@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:51:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-10.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:51:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for TCP Clients and TCP Servers Authors : Kent Watsen Michael Scharf Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-10.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines three YANG 1.1 modules to support the configuration of TCP clients and TCP servers. The modules include basic parameters of a TCP connection relevant for client or server applications, as well as client configuration required for traversing proxies. The modules can be used either standalone or in conjunction with configuration of other stack protocol layers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-10.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:52:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CB63A1B78; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:52:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136034057.2713.17723881698942555705@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:52:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:52:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for SSH Clients and SSH Servers Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24.txt Pages : 62 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines three YANG 1.1 modules: the first defines identities and groupings common to both SSH clients and SSH servers, the second defines a grouping for a generic SSH client, and the third defines a grouping for a generic SSH server. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-trust- anchors * "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore * "DDDD" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tcp- client-server * "EEEE" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:53:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5363A1AFE; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136041057.28541.4153993707140111080@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:53:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:53:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for TLS Clients and TLS Servers Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24.txt Pages : 61 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines three YANG 1.1 modules: the first defines identities and groupings common to both TLS clients and TLS servers, the second defines a grouping for a generic TLS client, and the third defines a grouping for a generic TLS server. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-trust- anchors * "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore * "DDDD" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tcp- client-server * "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:54:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E886B3A1B6D; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:54:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136046689.17636.5240920085276338775@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:54:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server-07.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:54:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Groupings for HTTP Clients and HTTP Servers Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server-07.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules: the first defines a minimal grouping for configuring an HTTP client, and the second defines a minimal grouping for configuring an HTTP server. It is intended that these groupings will be used to help define the configuration for simple HTTP-based protocols (not for complete web servers or browsers). Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements (note: not all may be present): * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "DDDD" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tcp- client-server * "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tls- client-server * "GGGG" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server-07.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:56:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858193A1B26; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136054549.6218.11336783739258407444@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:55:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-23.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:55:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : NETCONF Client and Server Models Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-23.txt Pages : 60 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a NETCONF client and the other module to configure a NETCONF server. Both modules support both the SSH and TLS transport protocols, and support both standard NETCONF and NETCONF Call Home connections. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements (note: not all may be present): * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-trust- anchors * "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore * "DDDD" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tcp- client-server * "EEEE" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-ssh- client-server * "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tls- client-server * "GGGG" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-http- client-server * "HHHH" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-23.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-23 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 10:57:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64323A1BAC; Tue, 18 May 2021 10:57:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162136063190.11746.8196377527193280476@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 10:57:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-23.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:57:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : RESTCONF Client and Server Models Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-23.txt Pages : 56 Date : 2021-05-18 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a RESTCONF client and the other module to configure a RESTCONF server. Both modules support the TLS transport protocol with both standard RESTCONF and RESTCONF Call Home connections. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements (note: not all may be present): * "AAAA" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-crypto- types * "BBBB" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-trust- anchors * "CCCC" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore * "DDDD" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tcp- client-server * "EEEE" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-ssh- client-server * "FFFF" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-tls- client-server * "GGGG" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-http- client-server * "HHHH" --> the assigned RFC value for draft-ietf-netconf-netconf- client-server * "IIII" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: * "2021-05-18" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: * Appendix B. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-23.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-23 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 18 11:37:22 2021 Return-Path: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A593A1C97 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 11:37:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c-zMu66ugkdh for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 11:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CF113A1C8D for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 11:37:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621363036; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=yGgze0+5vmDk1AYhaoE/K8hOdzd3QRjlEgF606aWSBQ=; b=aBRSElEpgPs++KYEXNbwlXNOxt6c8vwMXXi2XjnOC3NbNwsalUAzLzg4+VOxPTuJ 7x09cF3c5RSHLqz7uUkgHYUlAFkEaOHqtQgkcTQShq9qHd5uZ9uu0KPUZrD+o6ADJQ9 MJQ0epNqJRHd0mpc5fhJG5luM/JgFa6pB9cm0ha8= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Message-ID: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 18:37:16 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.18-54.240.8.88 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 18:37:21 -0000 Thank you to all that contributed to the WGLC of the tcp-, ssh-, tls-, = and http- client-server drafts. Below is the result change log for each = draft, but the highlights for me are: 1) for the =E2=80=9Ctcp=E2=80=9D draft, the abstract/introduction = sections were enhanced by Michael, my co-author and TCP WG co-chair. 2) for the =E2=80=9Cssh=E2=80=9D draft, we added and then removed the = keyboard-interactive and GSS-API support. 3) for the =E2=80=9Ctls=E2=80=9D draft, we marked the feature = statements for versions other than 1.3 as =E2=80=9Cnot recommended=E2=80=9D= . 4) for the =E2=80=9Chttp=E2=80=9D draft, no significant update = (really? hmm...) 5) for the =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D draft, whilst not in WGLC, = significant updates wrt the "client-identity-mappings=E2=80=9D nodes. Notably, beware that the Last Call YANG-doctor review for some of these = four drafts has been pending this update, so expect to see a little more = activity on these drafts yet.=20 K. DETAILS: crypto-types: * Nits found via YANG Doctors reviews. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. truststore: * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1 * Renamed feature "truststore-supported" to = "central-truststore-supported". * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a "central" truststore. * Removed two unecessary/unwanted "min-elements 1" and associated "presence" statements. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. keystore: * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1 * Renamed feature "keystore-supported" to "central-keystore- supported". * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a "central" keystore. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. tcp-client-server: * Updated Abstract and Intro to address comments by Tom Petch. * Removed the "tcp-connection-grouping" grouping (now models use the "tcp-common-grouping" directly). * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the unusual top-most element's presence. * Added Securty Considerations section for the "local-binding- supported" feature. * Replaced some hardcoded refs to elements. * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. * Added an "Acknowledgements" secetion. ssh-client-server: * Removed the 'supported-authentication-methods' from {grouping ssh- server-grouping}/client-authentication. * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the unexepected top-most element's presence. * Added RFC-references to various 'feature' statements. * Renamed "credentials" to "authentication methods" * Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*" * Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*" * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. * Added a 'Contributors' section. tls-client-server: * Added missing reference to "FIPS PUB 180-4". * Added identity "tls-1.3" and updated description statement in other identities indicating that the protocol version is obsolete and enabling the feature is NOT RECOMMENDED. * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the unexpected top-most element's presence. * Added missing "client-ident-raw-public-key" and "client-ident-psk" featutes. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. * Added a 'Contributors' section. http-client-server: * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the unusual top-most element's presence. * Renamed 'client-auth-config-supported' to 'client-auth-supported' consistent with other drafts. * Wrapped 'container basic' choice inside a 'case basic' per best practice. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. netconf-client-server: * Floated an 'if-feature' statement in a grouping down to where the grouping is used. * Clarified 'client-identity-mappings' for both the SSH and TLS transports. * For netconf-client, augmented-in a 'mapping-required' flag into 'client-identity-mappings' only for the SSH transport, and refined-in a 'min-elements 1' only for the TLS transport. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. restconf-client-server: * Further clarified why some 'presence' statements are present. * Addressed nits found in YANG Doctor reviews. * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. 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Wed, 19 May 2021 11:50:07 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: netconf-tls wasRe: [netconf] Summary of updates Thread-Index: AQHXTBTd+Ars5vZWR0GfweeEA5YRbarqpdED Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 11:50:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.143.250.49] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 070dbd60-2902-42af-1800-08d91abc3f7a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AS8PR07MB7063: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6430; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 070dbd60-2902-42af-1800-08d91abc3f7a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 May 2021 11:50:06.9591 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: K6Vnglli+A7QLobSM7rxKbV31dvnoczLkzhFslVuGzCREefF9eXUYXSwd3tdI7NsC9WIsl/e3Etdzpj8UyRlOA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR07MB7063 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 11:50:16 -0000 From: netconf on behalf of Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 18 May 2021 19:37=0A= =0A= Thank you to all that contributed to the WGLC of the tcp-, ssh-, tls-, and = http- client-server drafts. Below is the result change log for each draft,= but the highlights for me are:=0A= =0A= 1) for the =93tcp=94 draft, the abstract/introduction sections were enha= nced by Michael, my co-author and TCP WG co-chair.=0A= 2) for the =93ssh=94 draft, we added and then removed the keyboard-inter= active and GSS-API support.=0A= 3) for the =93tls=94 draft, we marked the feature statements for version= s other than 1.3 as =93not recommended=94.=0A= =0A= =0A= I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions.=0A= =0A= Introduction =0A= TLS Protocol [RFC5246] =0A= Clearly this is TLS1.2 only=0A= =0A= s.2=0A= This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3=0A= Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1=0A= =0A= s.2.1.1=0A= Features=0A= tls-1_0=0A= tls-1_1=0A= tls-1_2=0A= tls-1_3=0A= Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I know n= ot what.=0A= =0A= 2.2 =0A= an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting.=0A= =0A= Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported', '= Version 1.1 is supported'.=0A= =0A= hello-params-grouping=0A= Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG modules= =0A= =0A= Mmm I dunno!=0A= =0A= I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections expand o= n and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, cateri= ng for the different cipher suites that they have.=0A= =0A= In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement that on= ly certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that certificat= e(255) is a public key!=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= 4) for the =93http=94 draft, no significant update (really? hmm...)=0A= 5) for the =93netconf=94 draft, whilst not in WGLC, significant updates = wrt the "client-identity-mappings=94 nodes.=0A= =0A= Notably, beware that the Last Call YANG-doctor review for some of these fou= r drafts has been pending this update, so expect to see a little more activ= ity on these drafts yet.=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= DETAILS:=0A= =0A= crypto-types:=0A= * Nits found via YANG Doctors reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= =0A= truststore:=0A= * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1=0A= * Renamed feature "truststore-supported" to "central-truststore-support= ed".=0A= * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a=0A= "central" truststore.=0A= * Removed two unecessary/unwanted "min-elements 1" and associated=0A= "presence" statements.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= =0A= keystore:=0A= * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1=0A= * Renamed feature "keystore-supported" to "central-keystore-=0A= supported".=0A= * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a=0A= "central" keystore.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= =0A= tcp-client-server:=0A= * Updated Abstract and Intro to address comments by Tom Petch.=0A= * Removed the "tcp-connection-grouping" grouping (now models use the=0A= "tcp-common-grouping" directly).=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unusual top-most element's presence.=0A= * Added Securty Considerations section for the "local-binding-=0A= supported" feature.=0A= * Replaced some hardcoded refs to elements.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Added an "Acknowledgements" secetion.=0A= =0A= ssh-client-server:=0A= * Removed the 'supported-authentication-methods' from {grouping ssh-=0A= server-grouping}/client-authentication.=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unexepected top-most element's presence.=0A= * Added RFC-references to various 'feature' statements.=0A= * Renamed "credentials" to "authentication methods"=0A= * Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*"=0A= * Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*"=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Added a 'Contributors' section.=0A= =0A= tls-client-server:=0A= * Added missing reference to "FIPS PUB 180-4".=0A= * Added identity "tls-1.3" and updated description statement in=0A= other identities indicating that the protocol version is obsolete=0A= and enabling the feature is NOT RECOMMENDED.=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unexpected top-most element's presence.=0A= * Added missing "client-ident-raw-public-key" and "client-ident-psk"=0A= featutes.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Added a 'Contributors' section.=0A= =0A= http-client-server:=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unusual top-most element's presence.=0A= * Renamed 'client-auth-config-supported' to 'client-auth-supported'=0A= consistent with other drafts.=0A= * Wrapped 'container basic' choice inside a 'case basic' per best=0A= practice.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= =0A= netconf-client-server:=0A= * Floated an 'if-feature' statement in a grouping down to where the=0A= grouping is used.=0A= * Clarified 'client-identity-mappings' for both the SSH and TLS=0A= transports.=0A= * For netconf-client, augmented-in a 'mapping-required' flag into=0A= 'client-identity-mappings' only for the SSH transport, and=0A= refined-in a 'min-elements 1' only for the TLS transport.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= =0A= restconf-client-server:=0A= * Further clarified why some 'presence' statements are present.=0A= * Addressed nits found in YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netconf mailing list=0A= netconf@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A= From nobody Wed May 19 12:50:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199713A1CD8; Wed, 19 May 2021 12:50:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.29.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162145382106.26684.12802284108358427620@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 12:50:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 19:50:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Conveying a Certificate Signing Request (CSR) in a Secure Zero Touch Provisioning (SZTP) Bootstrapping Request Authors : Kent Watsen Russ Housley Sean Turner Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2021-05-19 Abstract: This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR), enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 19 12:55:15 2021 Return-Path: <0100017986323334-2ea5ccff-d5ea-408a-88a0-1378400338bc-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63953A1CF6 for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 12:55:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9YgIctngPPDf for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 12:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6916B3A1CFC for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 12:55:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621454108; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=ZMw9/pDv2PxvL1VE2XrzysBQ5KIqd/N1Ym0daCxC7mc=; b=Tue9PTu3326l7AOOPvPSAn+CS8Nu8tbzXE4zC71F1QzqIo8G3KQsQqqxMK3uoKPG z+CyH/868SLJbjl2ur4Kqnmq24C4g1E9nAfzHrQtZRVmz/7iYpx31Oy7LbuNk+Wo4UI 4roU+4U+r+ka4GecvWWPxvcL+6tG2sYiz1iuOnqU= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <162145382106.26684.12802284108358427620@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 19:55:07 +0000 Cc: Russ Housley , Sean Turner Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017986323334-2ea5ccff-d5ea-408a-88a0-1378400338bc-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <162145382106.26684.12802284108358427620@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.19-54.240.48.92 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 19:55:14 -0000 Folks, This is a no-op refresh due to the draft expiring tomorrow. Apparently, being in the =E2=80=9CWaiting for Writeup=E2=80=9D state is = insufficient to protect it from expiration. K. > On May 19, 2021, at 3:50 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Conveying a Certificate Signing Request (CSR) = in a Secure Zero Touch Provisioning (SZTP) Bootstrapping Request > Authors : Kent Watsen > Russ Housley > Sean Turner > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02.txt > Pages : 29 > Date : 2021-05-19 >=20 > Abstract: > This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in RFC > 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR), > enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity > certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the > "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr/ >=20 > There is also an HTML version available at: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02.html >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-02 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Thu May 20 16:12:58 2021 Return-Path: <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8CF3A0E7B for ; Thu, 20 May 2021 16:12:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EUx4OOyJfCIb for ; Thu, 20 May 2021 16:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB1753A0E77 for ; Thu, 20 May 2021 16:12:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621552371; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=2xYQDfUp9MS8sPvTOjIuUe9n6AveHIDb6kRT680YW/I=; b=G+2f89K1+n+O3LJB4ZrMoFzylX2Wicmjfy3dmTjZFI4ucni+tPD5QIpJ8//Lb1zr mdsaMq/iISuaCmGbKjpIp5jERDt8fllaRvyc/C28duOsScBVRZYD67Ga8C7fseK95Gj SssEF4BAfHDkuR+on4b5uy/a0hzVi01g5bwFN82I= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BAAE516F-30D2-4468-AFD3-8047851DD9EF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 23:12:50 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: tom petch References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.20-54.240.48.92 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 23:12:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BAAE516F-30D2-4468-AFD3-8047851DD9EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tom, > I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions. >=20 > Introduction=20 > TLS Protocol [RFC5246]=20 > Clearly this is TLS1.2 only Yes. In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the = current, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to RFC 8446. = But I wonder if you think the document should reference all four = documents (2246, 4346, 5246, and 8446) and then have DOWNREFS? Background: the document generally references TLS 1.2 as that *was* the = =E2=80=9Ccurrent=E2=80=9D TLS version when most of the text was written. = TLS 1.3 happened later, and a minimal (and apparently inadequate) = update was made to accommodate it. What you=E2=80=99re finding are the = remnants of that history... PS: I don=E2=80=99t claim to be a TLS expert. It would be helpful if = corrected text could be provide. Pointing out the issues is great, but = it takes time for me to determine what update is needed, something you = may have well in mind? K. >=20 > s.2 > This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 > Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1 >=20 > s.2.1.1 > Features > tls-1_0 > tls-1_1 > tls-1_2 > tls-1_3 > Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I = know not what. >=20 > 2.2=20 > an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting. >=20 > Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is = supported', 'Version 1.1 is supported'. >=20 > hello-params-grouping > Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG = modules >=20 > Mmm I dunno! >=20 > I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections = expand on and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for = me, catering for the different cipher suites that they have. >=20 > In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement = that only certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that = certificate(255) is a public key! >=20 > Tom Petch >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > 4) for the =E2=80=9Chttp=E2=80=9D draft, no significant update = (really? hmm...) > 5) for the =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D draft, whilst not in WGLC, = significant updates wrt the "client-identity-mappings=E2=80=9D nodes. >=20 > Notably, beware that the Last Call YANG-doctor review for some of = these four drafts has been pending this update, so expect to see a = little more activity on these drafts yet. >=20 > K. >=20 >=20 > DETAILS: >=20 > crypto-types: > * Nits found via YANG Doctors reviews. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. >=20 > truststore: > * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1 > * Renamed feature "truststore-supported" to = "central-truststore-supported". > * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a > "central" truststore. > * Removed two unecessary/unwanted "min-elements 1" and associated > "presence" statements. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. > * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. >=20 > keystore: > * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1 > * Renamed feature "keystore-supported" to "central-keystore- > supported". > * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a > "central" keystore. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. > * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. >=20 > tcp-client-server: > * Updated Abstract and Intro to address comments by Tom Petch. > * Removed the "tcp-connection-grouping" grouping (now models use = the > "tcp-common-grouping" directly). > * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the > unusual top-most element's presence. > * Added Securty Considerations section for the "local-binding- > supported" feature. > * Replaced some hardcoded refs to elements. > * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. > * Added an "Acknowledgements" secetion. >=20 > ssh-client-server: > * Removed the 'supported-authentication-methods' from {grouping = ssh- > server-grouping}/client-authentication. > * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the > unexepected top-most element's presence. > * Added RFC-references to various 'feature' statements. > * Renamed "credentials" to "authentication methods" > * Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*" > * Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*" > * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. > * Added a 'Contributors' section. >=20 > tls-client-server: > * Added missing reference to "FIPS PUB 180-4". > * Added identity "tls-1.3" and updated description statement in > other identities indicating that the protocol version is obsolete > and enabling the feature is NOT RECOMMENDED. > * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the > unexpected top-most element's presence. > * Added missing "client-ident-raw-public-key" and = "client-ident-psk" > featutes. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. > * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. > * Added a 'Contributors' section. >=20 > http-client-server: > * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the > unusual top-most element's presence. > * Renamed 'client-auth-config-supported' to 'client-auth-supported' > consistent with other drafts. > * Wrapped 'container basic' choice inside a 'case basic' per best > practice. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. > * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews. >=20 > netconf-client-server: > * Floated an 'if-feature' statement in a grouping down to where the > grouping is used. > * Clarified 'client-identity-mappings' for both the SSH and TLS > transports. > * For netconf-client, augmented-in a 'mapping-required' flag into > 'client-identity-mappings' only for the SSH transport, and > refined-in a 'min-elements 1' only for the TLS transport. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. >=20 > restconf-client-server: > * Further clarified why some 'presence' statements are present. > * Addressed nits found in YANG Doctor reviews. > * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_BAAE516F-30D2-4468-AFD3-8047851DD9EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Tom,


I still think = that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions.

Introduction
TLS Protocol [RFC5246]
Clearly this is TLS1.2 only

Yes. =   In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the = current, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to = RFC 8446.   But I wonder if you think the document should = reference all four documents (2246, 4346, 5246, and 8446) and then have = DOWNREFS?

Background: the document = generally references TLS 1.2 as that *was* the =E2=80=9Ccurrent=E2=80=9D = TLS version when most of the text was written.  TLS 1.3 happened = later, and a minimal (and apparently inadequate) update was made to = accommodate it.  What you=E2=80=99re finding are the remnants of = that history...

PS:  I don=E2=80=99t claim to be a TLS expert. =  It would be helpful if corrected text could be provide.  Pointing out the issues is great, but = it takes time for me to determine what update is needed, something you = may have well in mind?

K.



s.2
This model supports both = TLS1.2 and TLS1.3
Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 = or TLS1.1

s.2.1.1
Features
tls-1_0
tls-1_1
tls-1_2
tls-1_3
Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 = but it ........ for them but I know not what.

2.2
an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; = interesting.

Reverse engineering the YANG I = find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported', 'Version 1.1 is = supported'.

hello-params-grouping
Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in = the YANG modules

Mmm I dunno!

I want the Introduction to set the scene which = subsequent sections expand on and that I see as lacking.  Support = fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, catering for the different cipher suites = that they have.

In passing, I was wrong = about public keys.  I misread the statement that only certificates = and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that certificate(255) is a = public key!

Tom Petch




  4) = for the =E2=80=9Chttp=E2=80=9D draft, no significant update (really? = hmm...)
  5) for the =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D = draft, whilst not in WGLC, significant updates wrt the = "client-identity-mappings=E2=80=9D nodes.

Notably, beware that the Last Call YANG-doctor review for = some of these four drafts has been pending this update, so expect to see = a little more activity on these drafts yet.

K.


DETAILS:

crypto-types:
  * =  Nits found via YANG Doctors reviews.
  * =  Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.

truststore:
  *  Added prefixes = to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1
=   *  Renamed feature "truststore-supported" to = "central-truststore-supported".
  * =  Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a
     "central" truststore.
  *  Removed two unecessary/unwanted = "min-elements 1" and associated
=      "presence" statements.
=   *  Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.
  *  Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor = reviews.

keystore:
=   *  Added prefixes to 'path' statements per = trust-anchors/issues/1
  *  Renamed = feature "keystore-supported" to "central-keystore-
=      supported".
  * =  Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a
     "central" keystore.
  *  Aligned modules with `pyang -f` = formatting.
  *  Fixed nits found by YANG = Doctor reviews.

tcp-client-server:
  *  Updated Abstract and Intro to address = comments by Tom Petch.
  *  Removed the = "tcp-connection-grouping" grouping (now models use the
=      "tcp-common-grouping" directly).
  *  Added XML-comment above examples = explaining the reason for the
=      unusual top-most element's presence.
  *  Added Securty Considerations section for = the "local-binding-
=      supported" feature.
=   *  Replaced some hardcoded refs to <xref> = elements.
  *  Fixed nits found by YANG = Doctor reviews.
  *  Aligned modules with = `pyang -f` formatting.
  *  Added an = "Acknowledgements" secetion.

ssh-client-server:
  *  Removed = the 'supported-authentication-methods' from {grouping ssh-
=      server-grouping}/client-authentication.
  *  Added XML-comment above examples = explaining the reason for the
=      unexepected top-most element's = presence.
  *  Added RFC-references to = various 'feature' statements.
  *  Renamed = "credentials" to "authentication methods"
  * =  Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*"
=   *  Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*"
  *  Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor = reviews.
  *  Aligned modules with `pyang = -f` formatting.
  *  Added a = 'Contributors' section.

tls-client-server:   *  Added missing reference to "FIPS PUB = 180-4".
  *  Added identity "tls-1.3" and = updated description statement in
=      other identities indicating that the = protocol version is obsolete
=      and enabling the feature is NOT = RECOMMENDED.
  *  Added XML-comment above = examples explaining the reason for the
=      unexpected top-most element's presence.
  *  Added missing = "client-ident-raw-public-key" and "client-ident-psk"
=      featutes.
  * =  Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.
=   *  Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.
  *  Added a 'Contributors' section.

http-client-server:
=   *  Added XML-comment above examples explaining the = reason for the
     unusual = top-most element's presence.
  *  Renamed = 'client-auth-config-supported' to 'client-auth-supported'
=      consistent with other drafts.
=   *  Wrapped 'container basic' choice inside a 'case = basic' per best
=      practice.
  * =  Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.
=   *  Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.

netconf-client-server:
=   *  Floated an 'if-feature' statement in a grouping down = to where the
     grouping is = used.
  *  Clarified = 'client-identity-mappings' for both the SSH and TLS
=      transports.
  * =  For netconf-client, augmented-in a 'mapping-required' flag into
     'client-identity-mappings' = only for the SSH transport, and
=      refined-in a 'min-elements 1' only for the = TLS transport.
  *  Aligned modules with = `pyang -f` formatting.

restconf-client-server:
  * =  Further clarified why some 'presence' statements are present.
  *  Addressed nits found in YANG Doctor = reviews.
  *  Aligned modules with `pyang = -f` formatting.




_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

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Fri, 21 May 2021 10:27:37 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: netconf-tls wasRe: [netconf] Summary of updates Thread-Index: AQHXTc2q7FdLaIZBFE6d+YVLweKFLqrtuHT6 Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 10:27:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> , <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.143.250.49] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e07c4ecb-701a-4811-0743-08d91c430e10 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB4968: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e07c4ecb-701a-4811-0743-08d91c430e10 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 May 2021 10:27:37.3197 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: lwMFv+1Bty8QV8LZQy/4WAxsuUM3i8jprWbQ7JtsriTErZDXDxJuHiIVOjcbVYF+l3QtJu98WwnZlDhmJ90SNg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB4968 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 10:28:03 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 21 May 2021 00:12=0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions.=0A= =0A= Introduction=0A= TLS Protocol [RFC5246]=0A= Clearly this is TLS1.2 only=0A= =0A= Yes. In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the curren= t, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to RFC 8446. But I wo= nder if you think the document should reference all four documents (2246, 4= 346, 5246, and 8446) and then have DOWNREFS?=0A= =0A= Background: the document generally references TLS 1.2 as that *was* the =93= current=94 TLS version when most of the text was written. TLS 1.3 happened= later, and a minimal (and apparently inadequate) update was made to accomm= odate it. What you=92re finding are the remnants of that history...=0A= =0A= PS: I don=92t claim to be a TLS expert. It would be helpful if corrected = text could be provide. Pointing out the issues is great, but it takes time= for me to determine what update is needed, something you may have well in = mind?=0A= =0A= =0A= Yes, I did divine that the I-D appeared before TLS1.3 and so that was retro= fitted. Since that is now the current version and has been for a while, I = think that all references to TLS1.2 need a parallel reference to 1.3 as lon= g as 1.3 has the same constructs (which in places it has not). This applie= d throughout the YANG modules=0A= =0A= I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for the extra com= plication. I no longer recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g.= extensions incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is proba= bly overkill to find the relevant references for those older versions and a= dding them to the YANG as well but do think something needs adding in the b= ody of the I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, 1.1 is partial, identity= for the version number but not details of cipher suites, relevant RFC and = so on.=0A= =0A= I will look some more at the TLS1.3 references next week.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= s.2=0A= This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3=0A= Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1=0A= =0A= s.2.1.1=0A= Features=0A= tls-1_0=0A= tls-1_1=0A= tls-1_2=0A= tls-1_3=0A= Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I know n= ot what.=0A= =0A= 2.2=0A= an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting.=0A= =0A= Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported', '= Version 1.1 is supported'.=0A= =0A= hello-params-grouping=0A= Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG modules= =0A= =0A= Mmm I dunno!=0A= =0A= I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections expand o= n and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, cateri= ng for the different cipher suites that they have.=0A= =0A= In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement that on= ly certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that certificat= e(255) is a public key!=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= 4) for the =93http=94 draft, no significant update (really? hmm...)=0A= 5) for the =93netconf=94 draft, whilst not in WGLC, significant updates w= rt the "client-identity-mappings=94 nodes.=0A= =0A= Notably, beware that the Last Call YANG-doctor review for some of these fou= r drafts has been pending this update, so expect to see a little more activ= ity on these drafts yet.=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= DETAILS:=0A= =0A= crypto-types:=0A= * Nits found via YANG Doctors reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= =0A= truststore:=0A= * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1=0A= * Renamed feature "truststore-supported" to "central-truststore-supporte= d".=0A= * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a=0A= "central" truststore.=0A= * Removed two unecessary/unwanted "min-elements 1" and associated=0A= "presence" statements.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= =0A= keystore:=0A= * Added prefixes to 'path' statements per trust-anchors/issues/1=0A= * Renamed feature "keystore-supported" to "central-keystore-=0A= supported".=0A= * Associated with above, generally moved text to refer to a=0A= "central" keystore.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= =0A= tcp-client-server:=0A= * Updated Abstract and Intro to address comments by Tom Petch.=0A= * Removed the "tcp-connection-grouping" grouping (now models use the=0A= "tcp-common-grouping" directly).=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unusual top-most element's presence.=0A= * Added Securty Considerations section for the "local-binding-=0A= supported" feature.=0A= * Replaced some hardcoded refs to elements.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Added an "Acknowledgements" secetion.=0A= =0A= ssh-client-server:=0A= * Removed the 'supported-authentication-methods' from {grouping ssh-=0A= server-grouping}/client-authentication.=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unexepected top-most element's presence.=0A= * Added RFC-references to various 'feature' statements.=0A= * Renamed "credentials" to "authentication methods"=0A= * Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*"=0A= * Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*"=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Added a 'Contributors' section.=0A= =0A= tls-client-server:=0A= * Added missing reference to "FIPS PUB 180-4".=0A= * Added identity "tls-1.3" and updated description statement in=0A= other identities indicating that the protocol version is obsolete=0A= and enabling the feature is NOT RECOMMENDED.=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unexpected top-most element's presence.=0A= * Added missing "client-ident-raw-public-key" and "client-ident-psk"=0A= featutes.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Added a 'Contributors' section.=0A= =0A= http-client-server:=0A= * Added XML-comment above examples explaining the reason for the=0A= unusual top-most element's presence.=0A= * Renamed 'client-auth-config-supported' to 'client-auth-supported'=0A= consistent with other drafts.=0A= * Wrapped 'container basic' choice inside a 'case basic' per best=0A= practice.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= * Fixed nits found by YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= =0A= netconf-client-server:=0A= * Floated an 'if-feature' statement in a grouping down to where the=0A= grouping is used.=0A= * Clarified 'client-identity-mappings' for both the SSH and TLS=0A= transports.=0A= * For netconf-client, augmented-in a 'mapping-required' flag into=0A= 'client-identity-mappings' only for the SSH transport, and=0A= refined-in a 'min-elements 1' only for the TLS transport.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= =0A= restconf-client-server:=0A= * Further clarified why some 'presence' statements are present.=0A= * Addressed nits found in YANG Doctor reviews.=0A= * Aligned modules with `pyang -f` formatting.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netconf mailing list=0A= netconf@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A= =0A= From nobody Mon May 24 02:07:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0853A2055 for ; 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Mon, 24 May 2021 09:07:26 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates Thread-Index: AQHXTivrmXzh9hQhpkqYWkZI8gMDLqryWB1g Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 09:07:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> , <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.143.250.49] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: faf34d61-9732-4c4f-2669-08d91e935990 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6595: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: faf34d61-9732-4c4f-2669-08d91e935990 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 May 2021 09:07:25.9986 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: qGKBjSp+7npji10mlCYO702hmPFJ0eGbHl52qH5VSdDJyHmK+A0se/hPAOcmWoRIHw1skxIaZLRf24niLBgRjQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6595 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 09:07:34 -0000 From: tom petch =0A= Sent: 21 May 2021 11:27=0A= From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 21 May 2021 00:12=0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions.=0A= =0A= =0A= OK, some references.=0A= =0A= tlscmn=0A= =0A= tls-ecc=0A= needs RFC8446=0A= =0A= tls-dhe=0A= needs 8446=0A= =0A= tls-3des=0A= ok no support in 1.3=0A= =0A= tls-gcm =0A= needs 8446=0A= =0A= identity ciphersuite=0A= I do not see the 1.3 values from 8446 B.4=0A= =0A= hello-params=0A= needs 8446=0A= =0A= tls-client=0A= I note that the feature statements do not have references which some YANG d= octors say they should have.=0A= =0A= container client-identity=0A= needs 8446 and a reference in the body to 8446 s.4.4.2=0A= =0A= case psk=0A= needs Normative References to the two=0A= draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-*=0A= =0A= tls-server=0A= =0A= container server-identity=0A= as client-identity=0A= =0A= case psk=0A= as for tls-client=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= Introduction=0A= TLS Protocol [RFC5246]=0A= Clearly this is TLS1.2 only=0A= =0A= Yes. In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the curren= t, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to RFC 8446. But I wo= nder if you think the document should reference all four documents (2246, 4= 346, 5246, and 8446) and then have DOWNREFS?=0A= =0A= Background: the document generally references TLS 1.2 as that *was* the =93= current=94 TLS version when most of the text was written. TLS 1.3 happened= later, and a minimal (and apparently inadequate) update was made to accomm= odate it. What you=92re finding are the remnants of that history...=0A= =0A= PS: I don=92t claim to be a TLS expert. It would be helpful if corrected = text could be provide. Pointing out the issues is great, but it takes time= for me to determine what update is needed, something you may have well in = mind?=0A= =0A= =0A= Yes, I did divine that the I-D appeared before TLS1.3 and so that was retro= fitted. Since that is now the current version and has been for a while, I = think that all references to TLS1.2 need a parallel reference to 1.3 as lon= g as 1.3 has the same constructs (which in places it has not). This applie= d throughout the YANG modules=0A= =0A= I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for the extra com= plication. I no longer recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g.= extensions incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is proba= bly overkill to find the relevant references for those older versions and a= dding them to the YANG as well but do think something needs adding in the b= ody of the I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, 1.1 is partial, identity= for the version number but not details of cipher suites, relevant RFC and = so on.=0A= =0A= I will look some more at the TLS1.3 references next week.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= s.2=0A= This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3=0A= Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1=0A= =0A= s.2.1.1=0A= Features=0A= tls-1_0=0A= tls-1_1=0A= tls-1_2=0A= tls-1_3=0A= Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I know n= ot what.=0A= =0A= 2.2=0A= an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting.=0A= =0A= Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported', '= Version 1.1 is supported'.=0A= =0A= hello-params-grouping=0A= Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG modules= =0A= =0A= Mmm I dunno!=0A= =0A= I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections expand o= n and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, cateri= ng for the different cipher suites that they have.=0A= =0A= In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement that on= ly certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that certificat= e(255) is a public key!=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= 4) for the =93http=94 draft, no significant update (really? hmm...)=0A= 5) for the =93netconf=94 draft, whilst not in WGLC, significant updates w= rt the "client-identity-mappings=94 nodes.=0A= =0A= Notably, beware that the Last Call YANG-doctor review for some of these fou= r drafts has been pending this update, so expect to see a little more activ= ity on these drafts yet.=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= From nobody Mon May 24 16:16:36 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3AED3A10FA for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 16:16:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j9YgTZ7H2RqF for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 16:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C891C3A10F3 for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 16:16:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621898190; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=44Lxq8Yuqf3Njq8xZ2mPn4nnkMisQHbab/m+qoQUCOM=; b=dVfbySy/k4gvTb43BaoQmGsU6dYoYhFreRyKjAeY/+KgvH0E/wYCdL/z38bJ3oeh W3W+CMFeuszrhXGUSXUfPkn2fG1KpxdHI9mB/6kMvYTPUomoYfc30JdcU0SU8v4M0qD lSKigZux+F2iPS41itx6KAoZBQqFIkYDXybu6AL8= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 23:16:30 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , garywu@cisco.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: tom petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.24-54.240.8.31 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 23:16:34 -0000 [CC-ing Gary in case he can help] Hi Tom, > I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions. >=20 > Introduction > TLS Protocol [RFC5246] > Clearly this is TLS1.2 only >=20 > Yes. In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the = current, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to RFC 8446. = But I wonder if you think the document should reference all four = documents (2246, 4346, 5246, and 8446) and then have DOWNREFS? I didn=E2=80=99t get what you wanted to do here but, for now, I replaced = that reference with this paragraph: Any version of TLS may be configured, including , , , and . Configuring obsolete protocol versions for use in production networks is NOT RECOMMENDED. > I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for the = extra complication. By =E2=80=9Cwas all for=E2=80=9D, do you mean that you=E2=80=99re no = longer? That is, that =E2=80=9Csupporting=E2=80=9D all versions is = fine? > I no longer recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g. = extensions incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is = probably overkill to find the relevant references for those older = versions and adding them to the YANG as well but do think something = needs adding in the body of the I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, = 1.1 is partial, identity for the version number but not details of = cipher suites, relevant RFC and so on. Would you suggest adding said comment to the above paragraph? > s.2 > This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 > Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1 Do you mean that the sentence is incorrect because the model does = support 1.0 and 1.1? Perhaps simple remove the sentence altogether in = light of the above new paragraph? > s.2.1.1 > Features > tls-1_0 > tls-1_1 > tls-1_2 > tls-1_3 > Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I = know not what. I don=E2=80=99t understand this comment. > 2.2 > an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting. That example is completely arbitrary IMO but, alas, it was created by = Gary Wu, who is listed as a =E2=80=9CContributor=E2=80=9D, but we = haven=E2=80=99t heard from in a long time since... > Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is = supported', 'Version 1.1 is supported'. Correct. All the versions as =E2=80=9Csupported=E2=80=9D; all but 1.3 = are NOT RECOMMENDED. Is this a problem? > hello-params-grouping > Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG = modules >=20 > Mmm I dunno! Again, 1.2 *was* =E2=80=9Ccurrent=E2=80=9D before and so everything just = pointed to it, assuming that it is a superset of 1.0 and 1.1? We could = just replace all refs to =E2=80=9C1.2=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C1.3=E2=80=9D = and call it a day, but I don=E2=80=99t know if that would be technically = accurate. > I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections = expand on and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for = me, catering for the different cipher suites that they have. So we need to define additional ciphersuites for 1.0 and 1.1 or dump = support for those protocol versions? > In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement = that only certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that = certificate(255) is a public key! Gotcha > Tom Petch THANK YOU! Updates can be found in = https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/b94588b5a33c0852cfa= cbc415ca0a626bc1c5763. K. From nobody Mon May 24 16:43:44 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a0c32a2e-d0bce1e5-c006-4550-aebf-29b903643b4c-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540FF3A1218 for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 16:43:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ycJhQD6o_v5T for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 16:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07EC73A1214 for ; Mon, 24 May 2021 16:43:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621899815; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=Q2gl9p3xH3tx8AuYiJO4UBFdDoaLF4aj9DcprQYfptE=; b=ju/iMKCjWkpUEvifbtZT/qBux4ippQU7FP7f7Rgm2+woOI0LUHn1x3/bcy3bdtjv T5vRcu4/Zpm8XEbl/ZOtkdtYJu6C8Fu7W9/ms9lwhn8jVts83qsWuoW9bkJ7f5NEj5q VS2B4QMRByF/khvChrrvhx3LaaluKd6pw5fyGtMo= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000179a0c32a2e-d0bce1e5-c006-4550-aebf-29b903643b4c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9561B291-FED0-4696-9A53-4773B29B2446" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 23:43:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , garywu@cisco.com To: tom petch References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.24-54.240.8.88 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 23:43:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9561B291-FED0-4696-9A53-4773B29B2446 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 [CC-ing Gary again...] Hi Tom, > I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions. >=20 > > OK, some references. Grepping for the string =E2=80=9Ctp2.0=E2=80=9D returns no results. > tlscmn >=20 > tls-ecc > needs RFC8446 Why? 8446 refs and defers to 8422, right? >=20 > tls-dhe > needs 8446 Okay, 8446 obsoletes 5246. > tls-3des > ok no support in 1.3 Ack. Unmodified. > tls-gcm=20 > needs 8446 Okay, but it=E2=80=99s strange that 8446 doesn=E2=80=99t ref/obsolete = 5288=E2=80=A6I guess because it uses the NIST =E2=80=9CGCM=E2=80=9D ref = instead=E2=80=A6perhaps this draft should as well? > identity ciphersuite > I do not see the 1.3 values from 8446 B.4 grepping for =E2=80=9Cciphersuite=E2=80=9D returns no matches=E2=80=A6? > hello-params > needs 8446 Added. > tls-client > I note that the feature statements do not have references which some = YANG doctors say they should have. Added (for X.509, PSK, and RPK) > container client-identity > needs 8446 and a reference in the body to 8446 s.4.4.2 Added. > case psk > needs Normative References to the two > draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-* "external-psk-guidance=E2=80=9D is Informational and = "external-psk-importer=E2=80=9D while Standards Track, only regards an = interface for importing the PSKs into TLS. It seems that the existing = ref to RFC 4279 (which is NOT obsolete) is pretty good, right? > tls-server >=20 > container server-identity > as client-identity Added. > case psk > as for tls-client Same. > Tom Petch THANK YOU! Updates can be found in = https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/b94588b5a33c0852cfa= cbc415ca0a626bc1c5763. K. --Apple-Mail=_9561B291-FED0-4696-9A53-4773B29B2446 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 [CC-ing Gary again...]


Hi Tom,


I = still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported = versions.

<tp2.0>
OK, some references.

Grepping for the string =E2=80=9Ctp2.0=E2=80=9D = returns no results.


tlscmn

tls-ecc
needs= RFC8446

Why?  8446 refs and defers to 8422, = right?



tls-dhe
needs 8446

Okay, = 8446 obsoletes 5246.


tls-3des
ok no support in 1.3

Ack. =  Unmodified.



tls-gcm
needs 8446

Okay, = but it=E2=80=99s strange that 8446 doesn=E2=80=99t = ref/obsolete 5288=E2=80=A6I guess because it uses the NIST = =E2=80=9CGCM=E2=80=9D ref instead=E2=80=A6perhaps this draft should as = well?



identity ciphersuite
I do not see the 1.3 = values from 8446 B.4

grepping for =E2=80=9Cciphersuite=E2=80=9D returns = no matches=E2=80=A6?


hello-params
needs 8446

Added.


tls-client
I note that the feature statements = do not have references which some YANG doctors say they should have.

Added = (for X.509, PSK, and RPK)


container client-identity
needs 8446 and a = reference in the body to 8446 s.4.4.2

Added.


case psk
needs Normative References to the = two
draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-*

"external-psk-guidance=E2=80=9D is Informational and = "external-psk-importer=E2=80=9D while Standards Track, only regards an = interface for importing the PSKs into TLS.  It seems that the = existing ref to RFC 4279 (which is NOT obsolete) is pretty good, = right?


tls-server

container = server-identity
as client-identity

Added.


case psk
as for tls-client

Same.

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Tue, 25 May 2021 09:50:44 +0000 From: tom petch To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "garywu@cisco.com" Thread-Topic: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates Thread-Index: AQHXTivrmXzh9hQhpkqYWkZI8gMDLqryWB1ggAD4xICAAKRbJA== Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 09:50:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> , <01000179a0c32a2e-d0bce1e5-c006-4550-aebf-29b903643b4c-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <01000179a0c32a2e-d0bce1e5-c006-4550-aebf-29b903643b4c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.143.250.49] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6bf69021-dff3-46f6-9e5c-08d91f6290d0 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6516: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6430; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6bf69021-dff3-46f6-9e5c-08d91f6290d0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 May 2021 09:50:44.5079 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: YtnyT3eK4nscZfoI27f4/Y7Pd727YzLh0ZZvQbcvvuw0G8qzxUXMaLnvKJQIW1K9WElCyJxYF0xJsw0EeKroVw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6516 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 09:50:53 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 25 May 2021 00:43=0A= =0A= [CC-ing Gary again...]=0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions.=0A= =0A= =0A= OK, some references.=0A= =0A= Grepping for the string =93tp2.0=94 returns no results.=0A= =0A= =0A= tlscmn=0A= =0A= tls-ecc=0A= needs RFC8446=0A= =0A= Why? 8446 refs and defers to 8422, right?=0A= =0A= wrong IMHO; look at the title of 8422 - "Versions 1.2 and earlier"=0A= =0A= =0A= tls-dhe=0A= needs 8446=0A= =0A= Okay, 8446 obsoletes 5246.=0A= =0A= Right but I think you need both. The I-D currently highlights 1.2 and most= ly ignores 1.3 where I think they should have equal billing and since they = are so different, a reference to 1.3 alone is inadequate so my default posi= tion is that both 5246 and 8446 are needed.=0A= =0A= =0A= tls-3des=0A= ok no support in 1.3=0A= =0A= Ack. Unmodified.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= tls-gcm=0A= needs 8446=0A= =0A= Okay, but it=92s strange that 8446 doesn=92t ref/obsolete 5288=85I guess be= cause it uses the NIST =93GCM=94 ref instead=85perhaps this draft should as= well?=0A= =0A= Well where do you stop? As above, I think that every 5246 needs a 8446 alon= gside it unless one version does not support the functionality but that is = as far as I would go.=0A= =0A= =0A= identity ciphersuite=0A= I do not see the 1.3 values from 8446 B.4=0A= =0A= grepping for =93ciphersuite=94 returns no matches=85?=0A= =0A= Bear in mind that 1.3 changes everything it can - try 'cipher suite'=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= hello-params=0A= needs 8446=0A= =0A= Added.=0A= =0A= =0A= tls-client=0A= I note that the feature statements do not have references which some YANG d= octors say they should have.=0A= =0A= Added (for X.509, PSK, and RPK)=0A= =0A= =0A= container client-identity=0A= needs 8446 and a reference in the body to 8446 s.4.4.2=0A= =0A= Added.=0A= =0A= =0A= case psk=0A= needs Normative References to the two=0A= draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-*=0A= =0A= "external-psk-guidance=94 is Informational and "external-psk-importer=94 wh= ile Standards Track, only regards an interface for importing the PSKs into = TLS. It seems that the existing ref to RFC 4279 (which is NOT obsolete) is= pretty good, right?=0A= =0A= =0A= Disagree. The cipher suites of 4279 are invalid with 1.3 1.3 sort of does= away with PSK except where there has been a full handshake from which a PS= K can be derived for resumption. 1.3 imposes limits on the use of a PSK ac= ross versions and with different algorithms which is what I see the two I-= D as addressing.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= tls-server=0A= =0A= container server-identity=0A= as client-identity=0A= =0A= Added.=0A= =0A= =0A= case psk=0A= as for tls-client=0A= =0A= Same.=0A= =0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= THANK YOU!=0A= =0A= Updates can be found in https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/com= mit/b94588b5a33c0852cfacbc415ca0a626bc1c5763.=0A= =0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= From nobody Tue May 25 02:57:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB453A00C8 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 02:56:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bd0e12d7-7eb1-426c-9d22-08d91f636c12 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 May 2021 09:56:52.3903 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ybwguubvtYszlcywEF6ilC48+t89m4IT1fO/Z+CkY4pys0JeSn4oizi7ZaUAC89jQj9+MNlnuAqnt3S/Yx2C3Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6279 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 09:57:00 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 25 May 2021 00:16=0A= [CC-ing Gary in case he can help]=0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= > I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions.=0A= >=0A= > Introduction=0A= > TLS Protocol [RFC5246]=0A= > Clearly this is TLS1.2 only=0A= >=0A= > Yes. In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the curr= ent, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to RFC 8446. But I = wonder if you think the document should reference all four documents (2246,= 4346, 5246, and 8446) and then have DOWNREFS?=0A= =0A= I didn=92t get what you wanted to do here but, for now, I replaced that ref= erence with this paragraph:=0A= =0A= Any version of TLS may be configured, including=0A= , ,=0A= , and .=0A= Configuring obsolete protocol versions for use in production=0A= networks is NOT RECOMMENDED.=0A= =0A= =0A= I would still drop 1.0 and 1.1 entirely but see that others disagree. As t= hings stand, I do think that you need to differentiate between 1.2/1.3 and = 1.0/1.1, the former being comprehensively supported, the latter not. I do = not have a good set of words for this but think that you need something in = the Introduction to set expectations. You could add more details of 1.0/1.1= but I would see that as a retrograde step.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch =0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= > I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for the extra c= omplication.=0A= =0A= By =93was all for=94, do you mean that you=92re no longer? That is, that = =93supporting=94 all versions is fine?=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > I no longer recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g. extensi= ons incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is probably over= kill to find the relevant references for those older versions and adding th= em to the YANG as well but do think something needs adding in the body of t= he I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, 1.1 is partial, identity for the= version number but not details of cipher suites, relevant RFC and so on.= =0A= =0A= Would you suggest adding said comment to the above paragraph?=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > s.2=0A= > This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3=0A= > Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1=0A= =0A= Do you mean that the sentence is incorrect because the model does support 1= .0 and 1.1? Perhaps simple remove the sentence altogether in light of the = above new paragraph?=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > s.2.1.1=0A= > Features=0A= > tls-1_0=0A= > tls-1_1=0A= > tls-1_2=0A= > tls-1_3=0A= > Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I know= not what.=0A= =0A= I don=92t understand this comment.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > 2.2=0A= > an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting.=0A= =0A= That example is completely arbitrary IMO but, alas, it was created by Gary = Wu, who is listed as a =93Contributor=94, but we haven=92t heard from in a = long time since...=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported',= 'Version 1.1 is supported'.=0A= =0A= Correct. All the versions as =93supported=94; all but 1.3 are NOT RECOMMEN= DED. Is this a problem?=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > hello-params-grouping=0A= > Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG modul= es=0A= >=0A= > Mmm I dunno!=0A= =0A= Again, 1.2 *was* =93current=94 before and so everything just pointed to it,= assuming that it is a superset of 1.0 and 1.1? We could just replace all = refs to =931.2=94 with =931.3=94 and call it a day, but I don=92t know if t= hat would be technically accurate.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections expand= on and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, cate= ring for the different cipher suites that they have.=0A= =0A= So we need to define additional ciphersuites for 1.0 and 1.1 or dump suppor= t for those protocol versions?=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement that = only certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that certific= ate(255) is a public key!=0A= =0A= Gotcha=0A= =0A= =0A= > Tom Petch=0A= =0A= THANK YOU!=0A= =0A= Updates can be found in https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/com= mit/b94588b5a33c0852cfacbc415ca0a626bc1c5763.=0A= =0A= K.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= From nobody Tue May 25 03:07:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED69C3A077C for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 03:07:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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This document is assumed to apply to future versions of TLS; in which case, the mandatory-to-implement cipher suite for the implemented version MUST be supported. Given this, I do not think we need to consider TLS versions < 1.2 since there was never a specification for NETCONF over TLS versions < 1.2 - a NETCONF over TLS 1.1 implementation is using a non-standard transport. /js PS: And as I said before, if any updates to RFC 5539 are necessary to support NETCONF over TLS 1.3 properly, then we should spin RFC 5539 and not deal with the definition of a transport mapping in the configuration document. On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 09:56:52AM +0000, tom petch wrote: > From: Kent Watsen > Sent: 25 May 2021 00:16 > [CC-ing Gary in case he can help] > > Hi Tom, > > > I still think that the I-D lacks clarity about supported versions. > > > > Introduction > > TLS Protocol [RFC5246] > > Clearly this is TLS1.2 only > > > > Yes. In keeping with the original intention (to reference just the current, not obsoleted, document), this should be updated to RFC 8446. But I wonder if you think the document should reference all four documents (2246, 4346, 5246, and 8446) and then have DOWNREFS? > > I didn’t get what you wanted to do here but, for now, I replaced that reference with this paragraph: > > Any version of TLS may be configured, including > , , > , and . > Configuring obsolete protocol versions for use in production > networks is NOT RECOMMENDED. > > > I would still drop 1.0 and 1.1 entirely but see that others disagree. As things stand, I do think that you need to differentiate between 1.2/1.3 and 1.0/1.1, the former being comprehensively supported, the latter not. I do not have a good set of words for this but think that you need something in the Introduction to set expectations. You could add more details of 1.0/1.1 but I would see that as a retrograde step. > > Tom Petch > > Tom Petch > > > > I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for the extra complication. > > By “was all for”, do you mean that you’re no longer? That is, that “supporting” all versions is fine? > > > > > I no longer recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g. extensions incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is probably overkill to find the relevant references for those older versions and adding them to the YANG as well but do think something needs adding in the body of the I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, 1.1 is partial, identity for the version number but not details of cipher suites, relevant RFC and so on. > > Would you suggest adding said comment to the above paragraph? > > > > > s.2 > > This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 > > Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1 > > Do you mean that the sentence is incorrect because the model does support 1.0 and 1.1? Perhaps simple remove the sentence altogether in light of the above new paragraph? > > > > > s.2.1.1 > > Features > > tls-1_0 > > tls-1_1 > > tls-1_2 > > tls-1_3 > > Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I know not what. > > I don’t understand this comment. > > > > > 2.2 > > an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting. > > That example is completely arbitrary IMO but, alas, it was created by Gary Wu, who is listed as a “Contributor”, but we haven’t heard from in a long time since... > > > > > Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported', 'Version 1.1 is supported'. > > Correct. All the versions as “supported”; all but 1.3 are NOT RECOMMENDED. Is this a problem? > > > > > hello-params-grouping > > Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG modules > > > > Mmm I dunno! > > Again, 1.2 *was* “current” before and so everything just pointed to it, assuming that it is a superset of 1.0 and 1.1? We could just replace all refs to “1.2” with “1.3” and call it a day, but I don’t know if that would be technically accurate. > > > > > I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections expand on and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, catering for the different cipher suites that they have. > > So we need to define additional ciphersuites for 1.0 and 1.1 or dump support for those protocol versions? > > > > > In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement that only certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that certificate(255) is a public key! > > Gotcha > > > > Tom Petch > > THANK YOU! > > Updates can be found in https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/b94588b5a33c0852cfacbc415ca0a626bc1c5763. > > K. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue May 25 07:04:11 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a3d6eefe-455c9e3e-b42d-4704-8030-a34ae3f52b82-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EEA3A0B34 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xb2Cpq9xloTg for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 07:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27A953A0B20 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 07:04:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621951442; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=LavMbt+QatkWw/2voVWH/pij6ZAai9yjeoGn0Lhkpg8=; b=LAbJDJZlje+ZEbLu81PGXITr5y2cexgQNoRnZqJNRdO/2W3VRgA1oYws6FSXJnfm EAKfNcpB2cnuZwLT2906I3W2Xtke52hKSDOryTXm6UQmdBuWTo4Jav142EHaAsp1FCg DqhdbL4z35j0UhkJ2jVjtDZHkryuOMaod+lomZxg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20210525100652.fd3kbsilxscwk7yj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 14:04:02 +0000 Cc: tom petch , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <01000179a3d6eefe-455c9e3e-b42d-4704-8030-a34ae3f52b82-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525100652.fd3kbsilxscwk7yj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.25-54.240.48.90 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 14:04:09 -0000 Hi Juergen, > RFC 5539 (published in May 2009) defines NETCONF over TLS and it is > very specific that it requires TLS 1.2 or future versions of TLS: >=20 > Implementations MUST support TLS 1.2 [RFC5246] and are REQUIRED to > support the mandatory-to-implement cipher suite, which is > TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA. This document is assumed to apply to > future versions of TLS; in which case, the mandatory-to-implement > cipher suite for the implemented version MUST be supported. >=20 > Given this, I do not think we need to consider TLS versions < 1.2 > since there was never a specification for NETCONF over TLS versions < > 1.2 - a NETCONF over TLS 1.1 implementation is using a non-standard > transport. The tls-client-server draft is not exclusive to NETCONF. For example, = RESTCONF and PCE WG has a =E2=80=9Cpeep-yang=E2=80=9D draft... That said, it seems Tom is saying that TLS 1.0 and 1.1 are effectively = historic at this point (no longer used) and so support for those = versions should be dropped for that reason? > PS: And as I said before, if any updates to RFC 5539 are necessary to > support NETCONF over TLS 1.3 properly, then we should spin RFC > 5539 and not deal with the definition of a transport mapping in > the configuration document. Adding TLS 1.3 to the tls-client-server draft is not for NETCONF=E2=80=99s= sake. =20 The netconf-client-server doesn=E2=80=99t yet, but perhaps should, state = that the tls-client-server=E2=80=99s draft support for 1.3 should be = ignored until RFC 5539 is updated?=20 Kent From nobody Tue May 25 07:40:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D644B3A0D78 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 07:40:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 481iphtFDxmF for ; 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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de; Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:194::23) by AM9P190MB1364.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:20b:271::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4150.26; Tue, 25 May 2021 14:40:41 +0000 Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fd93:9b33:ac92:ea58]) by AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fd93:9b33:ac92:ea58%8]) with mapi id 15.20.4150.027; Tue, 25 May 2021 14:40:41 +0000 Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:40:40 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: tom petch , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20210525144040.qn24ruxiof3ydxa2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , tom petch , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525100652.fd3kbsilxscwk7yj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <01000179a3d6eefe-455c9e3e-b42d-4704-8030-a34ae3f52b82-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: text/plain; 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This document is assumed to apply to > > future versions of TLS; in which case, the mandatory-to-implement > > cipher suite for the implemented version MUST be supported. > > > > Given this, I do not think we need to consider TLS versions < 1.2 > > since there was never a specification for NETCONF over TLS versions < > > 1.2 - a NETCONF over TLS 1.1 implementation is using a non-standard > > transport. > > > The tls-client-server draft is not exclusive to NETCONF. For example, RESTCONF and PCE WG has a “peep-yang” draft... Yep, I tend to forget this... > That said, it seems Tom is saying that TLS 1.0 and 1.1 are effectively historic at this point (no longer used) and so support for those versions should be dropped for that reason? If there are any features provided to configure historic versions of TLS, then the features and identities for TLS 1.0 and 1.1 should likely have a status obsolete and the feature and identities for TLS 1.2 may have status deprecated. > The netconf-client-server doesn’t yet, but perhaps should, state > that the tls-client-server’s draft support for 1.3 should be ignored > until RFC 5539 is updated? I guess someone (Tom?) should review RFC 5539 from the TLS 1.3 perspective to tell the WG if any changes are needed so that the WG can take an informed decision whether an update of RFC 5539 is necessary or whether what we have is good enough. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue May 25 08:58:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE133A11DB for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 08:58:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bbca4daf-ed34-4549-50be-08d91f95e507 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 May 2021 15:58:10.1431 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: i6OBZuRMys5Qffh3AHkr44OIfb7Iayi+6M8ONMoju9w7Eou0k/BBuk4Vt5aC0yVM1UTYUdyXQB0fVDB3J7Vi2w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0701MB2291 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 15:58:18 -0000 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= Sent: 25 May 2021 15:40=0A= =0A= On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 02:04:02PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:=0A= >=0A= > Hi Juergen,=0A= >=0A= > > RFC 5539 (published in May 2009) defines NETCONF over TLS and it is=0A= > > very specific that it requires TLS 1.2 or future versions of TLS:=0A= > >=0A= > > Implementations MUST support TLS 1.2 [RFC5246] and are REQUIRED to=0A= > > support the mandatory-to-implement cipher suite, which is=0A= > > TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA. This document is assumed to apply to= =0A= > > future versions of TLS; in which case, the mandatory-to-implement=0A= > > cipher suite for the implemented version MUST be supported.=0A= > >=0A= > > Given this, I do not think we need to consider TLS versions < 1.2=0A= > > since there was never a specification for NETCONF over TLS versions <= =0A= > > 1.2 - a NETCONF over TLS 1.1 implementation is using a non-standard=0A= > > transport.=0A= =0A= > The tls-client-server draft is not exclusive to NETCONF. For example, RE= STCONF and PCE WG has a =93peep-yang=94 draft...=0A= =0A= Yep, I tend to forget this...=0A= =0A= > That said, it seems Tom is saying that TLS 1.0 and 1.1 are effectively hi= storic at this point (no longer used) and so support for those versions sho= uld be dropped for that reason?=0A= =0A= If there are any features provided to configure historic versions of=0A= TLS, then the features and identities for TLS 1.0 and 1.1 should=0A= likely have a status obsolete and the feature and identities for TLS=0A= 1.2 may have status deprecated.=0A= =0A= > The netconf-client-server doesn=92t yet, but perhaps should, state=0A= > that the tls-client-server=92s draft support for 1.3 should be ignored=0A= > until RFC 5539 is updated?=0A= =0A= I guess someone (Tom?) should review RFC 5539 from the TLS 1.3=0A= perspective to tell the WG if any changes are needed so that the WG=0A= can take an informed decision whether an update of RFC 5539 is=0A= necessary or whether what we have is good enough.=0A= =0A= =0A= Well, I tend to forget that RFC5539 is obsolete, obsoleted by RFC7589 which= is X.509 certificate only; no PSK, no naked public keys. My concerns with= TLS1.3 mostly relate to PSK which allows data to flow before the handshake= is complete, before authentication is complete, which is a problem for som= e applications as I mentioned before; but staying with X.509 authentication= only for Netconf makes life simpler for a 7589bis, replace 1.2 by 1.3 and = think about the extensions to see what may be needed.=0A= =0A= Here however, with netconf-tls, the question is what the scope should be, t= o include or exclude TLS1.0/1.1 and how far to delve into PSK and early dat= a; I assume that TLS1.3 must be covered in at least as much detail as TLS1.= 2, which was the starting point for my comments, where I saw lots of refere= nces for 1.2, very few for 1.3.. =0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= From nobody Tue May 25 09:29:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262663A140F for ; 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no PSK, no naked public keys. My concerns with TLS1.3 mostly relate to PSK which allows data to flow before the handshake is complete, before authentication is complete, which is a problem for some applications as I mentioned before; but staying with X.509 authentication only for Netconf makes life simpler for a 7589bis, replace 1.2 by 1.3 and think about the extensions to see what may be needed. > So regarding a possible update of RFC 7589, what is needed? + Require TLS 1.3 (update section 8) Which extensions should one think about? Do you mean RFC 8773 or something else? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue May 25 12:21:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437123A1A42; Tue, 25 May 2021 12:21:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Andy Bierman via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.30.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <162197047222.6755.5719177112947542346@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 12:21:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 19:21:12 -0000 Reviewer: Andy Bierman Review result: Ready Comments: 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] These modules are intentionally abstract. There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the same everywhere, and the only difference will be the path from root to the objects in these groupings. In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be different. Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. 2) same feature names in 2 modules - feature userauth-hostbased - feature userauth-none - feature userauth-password - feature userauth-publickey The ietf-ssh-client and ietf-ssh-server modules both use these feature names. IMO users will not expect this, and this will cause confusion. Why can't these features be defined once in ietf-ssh-common.yang? Seems like client and server will advertise the feature for implementing their relevant values. From nobody Tue May 25 12:22:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269CE3A1A44; Tue, 25 May 2021 12:22:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Andy Bierman via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.30.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <162197056513.1767.16350161534776831688@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 12:22:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 19:22:45 -0000 Reviewer: Andy Bierman Review result: Ready Comments: I am not commenting on the TLS 1.0 and 1.3 onging discussions. The WG decision does not impact the YANG module review. 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] These modules are intentionally abstract. There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the same everywhere, and the only difference will be the path from root to the objects in these groupings. In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be different. Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. 2) mandatory choice of only optional-to-implement cases The choice /ietf-tls-client:client-identity/auth-type is mandatory but all cases have if-feature-stmts. Does draft mention 1 of the 4 features MUST be implemented? From nobody Tue May 25 15:55:39 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a5bd8ba9-31f98af8-18b4-422f-8b0a-3be3241175b9-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7982E3A115F for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:55:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5q1L_u9qlzjQ for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B00963A115E for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:55:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621983333; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=lzbKzlmhYe6c5srKVdYQmtPedned1m3oP5RtKOlFgiU=; b=HXUJ0oW0xHLN48gttUFA7JIEALXqm0YMNzcqmiQDk9WgjAYlHtCwlpyDwrHjMOQa NcoCojTLwe4hX+24xeOrzt8txvLYP/p5WjJ0yWNigxA78bdUstRgGiLuWKxHL5bkvAu Nfy5dy0zlWmjngY4Q2w/nztWCHs4YS62Stlbwiyg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000179a5bd8ba9-31f98af8-18b4-422f-8b0a-3be3241175b9-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_20CD996F-CF4F-4C1C-8BD0-CCF6583BCDF9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:55:33 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "garywu@cisco.com" To: tom petch References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0c32a2e-d0bce1e5-c006-4550-aebf-29b903643b4c-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.25-54.240.48.94 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:55:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_20CD996F-CF4F-4C1C-8BD0-CCF6583BCDF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tom, Pruning resolved items below. > > OK, some references. >=20 > Grepping for the string =E2=80=9Ctp2.0=E2=80=9D returns no results. Oh, I think that you=E2=80=99re trying to be funny, as = identifies your follow-up comments, which may=E2=80=99ve been marked = . Do you see now how that wasn=E2=80=99t obvious to me, perhaps = next time preface with a comment =E2=80=9Csee for follow-ups=E2=80= =9D. Better, as I and others have been recommended, you should ditch = your web-mail client for something that implements normal indentation = for replies... > tlscmn >=20 > tls-ecc > needs RFC8446 >=20 > Why? 8446 refs and defers to 8422, right? > > wrong IMHO; look at the title of 8422 - "Versions 1.2 and earlier" Okay, added. > tls-dhe > needs 8446 >=20 > Okay, 8446 obsoletes 5246. > > Right but I think you need both. The I-D currently highlights 1.2 and = mostly ignores 1.3 where I think they should have equal billing and = since they are so different, a reference to 1.3 alone is inadequate so = my default position is that both 5246 and 8446 are needed. The previous git-commit has both. > tls-gcm > needs 8446 >=20 > Okay, but it=E2=80=99s strange that 8446 doesn=E2=80=99t ref/obsolete = 5288=E2=80=A6I guess because it uses the NIST =E2=80=9CGCM=E2=80=9D ref = instead=E2=80=A6perhaps this draft should as well? > > Well where do you stop? As above, I think that every 5246 needs a 8446 = alongside it unless one version does not support the functionality but = that is as far as I would go. >=20 >=20 > identity ciphersuite > I do not see the 1.3 values from 8446 B.4 >=20 > grepping for =E2=80=9Cciphersuite=E2=80=9D returns no matches=E2=80=A6? > > Bear in mind that 1.3 changes everything it can - try 'cipher suite=E2=80= =99 Oh, you meant "cipher-suite-base=E2=80=9D This was Gary=E2=80=99s contribution, so I=E2=80=99m not too familiar = with it, but I went ahead and added 5 new derived identities (for the 5 = cipher suites listed in B.4), marking each with an =E2=80=9Cif-feature = tls-1_3=E2=80=9D statement, while also marking all the other derived = identities with an "if-feature tls-1_2=E2=80=9D statement. > case psk > needs Normative References to the two > draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-* >=20 > "external-psk-guidance=E2=80=9D is Informational and = "external-psk-importer=E2=80=9D while Standards Track, only regards an = interface for importing the PSKs into TLS. It seems that the existing = ref to RFC 4279 (which is NOT obsolete) is pretty good, right? >=20 > > Disagree. The cipher suites of 4279 are invalid with 1.3 1.3 sort of = does away with PSK except where there has been a full handshake from = which a PSK can be derived for resumption. 1.3 imposes limits on the = use of a PSK across versions and with different algorithms which is what = I see the two I-D as addressing. Okay, added. > Tom Petch Updates can be found here: = https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/d2af1d7707095f2ad97= 7b804d0f9e13024489ab4 = K. --Apple-Mail=_20CD996F-CF4F-4C1C-8BD0-CCF6583BCDF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Tom,

Pruning resolved items below.



<tp2.0>
OK, some references.

Grepping for the string =E2=80=9Ctp2.0=E2=80=9D = returns no results.

Oh, I think that you=E2=80=99re trying to be = funny, as <tp2.0> identifies your follow-up comments, which = may=E2=80=99ve been marked <tp>.   Do you see now how that = wasn=E2=80=99t obvious to me, perhaps next time preface with a comment = =E2=80=9Csee <tp2.0> for follow-ups=E2=80=9D.  Better, as I = and others have been recommended, you should ditch your web-mail client = for something that implements normal indentation for = replies...



tlscmn

tls-ecc
needs= RFC8446

Why?  8446 refs and defers to = 8422, right?
<tp>
wrong IMHO; look at = the title of 8422 - "Versions 1.2 and earlier"

Okay, = added.



tls-dhe
needs 8446

Okay, 8446 obsoletes 5246.
<tp>
Right but I think you need both.  The I-D currently = highlights 1.2 and mostly ignores 1.3 where I think they should have = equal billing and since they are so different, a reference to 1.3 alone = is inadequate so my default position is that both 5246 and 8446 are = needed.

The previous git-commit has both.



tls-gcm
needs 8446

Okay, but it=E2=80=99s strange that 8446 = doesn=E2=80=99t ref/obsolete 5288=E2=80=A6I guess because it uses the = NIST =E2=80=9CGCM=E2=80=9D ref instead=E2=80=A6perhaps this draft should = as well?
<tp>
Well where do you stop? = As above, I think that every 5246 needs a 8446 alongside it unless one = version does not support the functionality but that is as far as I would = go.


identity ciphersuite
I do not see the 1.3 values from 8446 B.4

grepping for =E2=80=9Cciphersuite=E2=80=9D returns no = matches=E2=80=A6?
<tp>
Bear in mind = that 1.3 changes everything it can - try 'cipher suite=E2=80=99

Oh, you meant = "cipher-suite-base=E2=80=9D

This was = Gary=E2=80=99s contribution, so I=E2=80=99m not too familiar with it, = but I went ahead and added 5 new derived identities (for the 5 cipher = suites listed in B.4), marking each with an =E2=80=9Cif-feature tls-1_3=E2=80=9D statement, while also marking all the other derived = identities with an "if-feature tls-1_2=E2=80=9D = statement.



case psk
needs = Normative References to the two
draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-*

"external-psk-guidance=E2=80=9D is Informational and = "external-psk-importer=E2=80=9D while Standards Track, only regards an = interface for importing the PSKs into TLS.  It seems that the = existing ref to RFC 4279 (which is NOT obsolete) is pretty good, = right?

<tp>
Disagree. =  The cipher suites of 4279 are invalid with 1.3  1.3 sort of = does away with PSK except where there has been a full handshake from = which a PSK can be derived for resumption.  1.3 imposes limits on = the use of a PSK across versions and with different algorithms which is = what  I see the two I-D as addressing.

Okay, = added.



Tom Petch



K.

= --Apple-Mail=_20CD996F-CF4F-4C1C-8BD0-CCF6583BCDF9-- From nobody Tue May 25 15:55:56 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a5bdc371-b665451f-61d4-4364-9d55-e9369f3adc8e-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FE83A11A4 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CQT35YN9XW42 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2777E3A1192 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:55:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621983347; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=CZ2vUbR9ltZjRVVXK6yMk9hKI7h8pSbldM4FvmtX5EI=; b=Yj3Ox9I6LMbH24qn4fgU1jaN1EZaU60EsWOUBfTAU4Ffd1vVJmMO2XJtJQ3dtEJj l3DVoiWPnstRLW/mTGPqTUlqJScAhdYzlTHBXDw2edFoj68N5EmGhyOBCCV7RTGG45Q hUUyhV9HLMJyuh2idsBe3//NLqE3oxnlNSxBd56c= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000179a5bdc371-b665451f-61d4-4364-9d55-e9369f3adc8e-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ABC7608C-F047-440A-B728-B3B056A484B5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:55:47 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "garywu@cisco.com" To: tom petch References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.25-54.240.48.110 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:55:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ABC7608C-F047-440A-B728-B3B056A484B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tom, Pruning resolved items below. > I would still drop 1.0 and 1.1 entirely but see that others disagree. = As things stand, I do think that you need to differentiate between = 1.2/1.3 and 1.0/1.1, the former being comprehensively supported, the = latter not. I do not have a good set of words for this but think that = you need something in the Introduction to set expectations. You could = add more details of 1.0/1.1 but I would see that as a retrograde step. >=20 > Tom Petch=20 Intro now says: Any version of TLS may be configured. TLS 1.0 [RFC2246] and TLS 1.1 [RFC4346] are historic and hence the YANG "feature" statements enabling them are marked "status obsolete". TLS 1.2 [RFC5246] is obsoleted by TLS 1.3 [RFC8446] but still is common use, and hence its "feature" statement is marked "status obsolete". All the "feature" statements for 1.0, 1.1, and 1.3 have "description" statements stating that it is NOT RECOMMENDED to enable obsolete protocol versions. Updates can be found here: = https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/d2af1d7707095f2ad97= 7b804d0f9e13024489ab4 = K. PS: below are other comments from my previous reply. Some are still = open in my mind, but otherwise will be considered dropped. >> I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for the = extra complication. >=20 > By =E2=80=9Cwas all for=E2=80=9D, do you mean that you=E2=80=99re no = longer? That is, that =E2=80=9Csupporting=E2=80=9D all versions is = fine? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> I no longer recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g. = extensions incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is = probably overkill to find the relevant references for those older = versions and adding them to the YANG as well but do think something = needs adding in the body of the I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, = 1.1 is partial, identity for the version number but not details of = cipher suites, relevant RFC and so on. >=20 > Would you suggest adding said comment to the above paragraph? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> s.2 >> This model supports both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 >> Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or TLS1.1 >=20 > Do you mean that the sentence is incorrect because the model does = support 1.0 and 1.1? Perhaps simple remove the sentence altogether in = light of the above new paragraph? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> s.2.1.1 >> Features >> tls-1_0 >> tls-1_1 >> tls-1_2 >> tls-1_3 >> Ah no, it may not support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I = know not what. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t understand this comment. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> 2.2 >> an example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting. >=20 > That example is completely arbitrary IMO but, alas, it was created by = Gary Wu, who is listed as a =E2=80=9CContributor=E2=80=9D, but we = haven=E2=80=99t heard from in a long time since... >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Reverse engineering the YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is = supported', 'Version 1.1 is supported'. >=20 > Correct. All the versions as =E2=80=9Csupported=E2=80=9D; all but 1.3 = are NOT RECOMMENDED. Is this a problem? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> hello-params-grouping >> Only 1.2 is referenced as indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG = modules >>=20 >> Mmm I dunno! >=20 > Again, 1.2 *was* =E2=80=9Ccurrent=E2=80=9D before and so everything = just pointed to it, assuming that it is a superset of 1.0 and 1.1? We = could just replace all refs to =E2=80=9C1.2=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C1.3=E2=80= =9D and call it a day, but I don=E2=80=99t know if that would be = technically accurate. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> I want the Introduction to set the scene which subsequent sections = expand on and that I see as lacking. Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for = me, catering for the different cipher suites that they have. >=20 > So we need to define additional ciphersuites for 1.0 and 1.1 or dump = support for those protocol versions? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> In passing, I was wrong about public keys. I misread the statement = that only certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, forgetting that = certificate(255) is a public key! >=20 > Gotcha >=20 >=20 >> Tom Petch >=20 > THANK YOU! >=20 > Updates can be found in = https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/b94588b5a33c0852cfa= cbc415ca0a626bc1c5763. >=20 > K. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_ABC7608C-F047-440A-B728-B3B056A484B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi = Tom,

Pruning resolved items below.

I would still drop 1.0 and 1.1 entirely but = see that others disagree.  As things stand, I do think that you = need to differentiate between 1.2/1.3 and 1.0/1.1, the former being = comprehensively supported, the latter not.  I do not have a good = set of words for this but think that you need something in the = Introduction to set expectations. You could add more details of 1.0/1.1 = but I would see that as a retrograde step.

Tom Petch

Intro now says:

  =  Any version of TLS may be configured.  TLS = 1.0 [RFC2246] and TLS 1.1
   [RFC4346] are = historic and hence the YANG "feature" statements
 =  enabling them are marked "status = obsolete".  TLS 1.2 [RFC5246] is
  =  obsoleted by TLS 1.3 [RFC8446] but still is common use, and = hence its
   "feature" statement is marked = "status obsolete".  All the "feature"
  =  statements for 1.0, 1.1, and 1.3 have "description" = statements
   stating that it is NOT RECOMMENDED = to enable obsolete protocol
   versions.

K.


PS: below are other comments from my previous = reply.   Some are still open in my mind, but otherwise will be = considered dropped.


I was all for ditching any mention of 1.1 and 1.0 if only for = the extra complication.

By = =E2=80=9Cwas all for=E2=80=9D, do you mean that you=E2=80=99re no = longer?  That is, that =E2=80=9Csupporting=E2=80=9D all versions is = fine?



 I no longer = recall where 1.2 differs from its predecessors e.g. extensions = incorporated in the base, signature algorithms, and it is probably = overkill to find the relevant references for those older versions and = adding them to the YANG as well but do think something needs adding in = the body of the I-D to the effect that support for 1.0, 1.1 is partial, = identity for the version number but not details of cipher suites, = relevant RFC and so on.

Would = you suggest adding said comment to the above paragraph?



s.2
This model supports both TLS1.2 and = TLS1.3
Ah, no, TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 but not TLS1.0 or = TLS1.1

Do you mean that the = sentence is incorrect because the model does support 1.0 and 1.1? =  Perhaps simple remove the sentence altogether in light of the = above new paragraph?



s.2.1.1
Features
tls-1_0
tls-1_1
tls-1_2
tls-1_3
Ah no, it may not = support 1.0 and 1.1 but it ........ for them but I know not what.

I don=E2=80=99t understand this = comment.



2.2
an = example for 1.1 and 1.2 but not 1.3; interesting.

That example is completely = arbitrary IMO but, alas, it was created by Gary Wu, who is listed as a = =E2=80=9CContributor=E2=80=9D, but we haven=E2=80=99t heard from in a = long time since...



Reverse engineering the = YANG I find that that 'Version 1.0 is supported', 'Version 1.1 is = supported'.

Correct.  All = the versions as =E2=80=9Csupported=E2=80=9D; all but 1.3 are NOT = RECOMMENDED.  Is this a problem?



hello-params-grouping
Only 1.2 is referenced as = indeed is repeatedly the case in the YANG modules

Mmm I dunno!

Again, = 1.2 *was* =E2=80=9Ccurrent=E2=80=9D before and so everything just = pointed to it, assuming that it is a superset of 1.0 and 1.1?  We = could just replace all refs to =E2=80=9C1.2=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9C1.3=E2=80= =9D and call it a day, but I don=E2=80=99t know if that would be = technically accurate.



I want the Introduction = to set the scene which subsequent sections expand on and that I see as = lacking.  Support fot 1.0 and 1.1 would, for me, catering for the = different cipher suites that they have.

So we need to define additional ciphersuites for 1.0 and 1.1 = or dump support for those protocol versions?



In passing, I was wrong about public keys.  I misread = the statement that only certificates and PSK are supported in TLS1.3, = forgetting that certificate(255) is a public key!

Gotcha


Tom = Petch

THANK YOU!

Updates can be found in https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/b94588b5= a33c0852cfacbc415ca0a626bc1c5763.

K.





= --Apple-Mail=_ABC7608C-F047-440A-B728-B3B056A484B5-- From nobody Tue May 25 15:56:15 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a5be008b-32fdb60e-e9d9-493e-90ab-12354c652934-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F4D3A119D for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:56:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ie13KdahwtiI for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF1CE3A1181 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 15:56:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1621983363; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=uNQM9E8F5LBvr33A6Sw3gA502x5//wKtGkeq/8Mr1Q8=; b=LwWAIMOBHEybV/vQmiC3ayUFZ0z7+XfJ4gBGviRrCfpEe/slBQSXtC0CGvsQbcUI VEFbpPn8eMYM/XT+ewQIGJ2Hafwtts3rqu2hLMCbEgGoftJLyz27X4hz+xfqy+yVlbU 8O68fqnj9KQUmtHwYB7br4KihqSeIfG2hhlAh+10= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000179a5be008b-32fdb60e-e9d9-493e-90ab-12354c652934-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D7B62964-4109-4E7E-AB59-1482FD9F1A63" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:56:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20210525144040.qn24ruxiof3ydxa2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: tom petch , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525100652.fd3kbsilxscwk7yj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <01000179a3d6eefe-455c9e3e-b42d-4704-8030-a34ae3f52b82-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525144040.qn24ruxiof3ydxa2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.25-54.240.8.96 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:56:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D7B62964-4109-4E7E-AB59-1482FD9F1A63 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Juergen, > If there are any features provided to configure historic versions of > TLS, then the features and identities for TLS 1.0 and 1.1 should > likely have a status obsolete and the feature and identities for TLS > 1.2 may have status deprecated. Done. Updates can be found here: = https://github.com/netconf-wg/tls-client-server/commit/d2af1d7707095f2ad97= 7b804d0f9e13024489ab4 = K. --Apple-Mail=_D7B62964-4109-4E7E-AB59-1482FD9F1A63 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Juergen,

If there are any features = provided to configure historic versions of
TLS, then the = features and identities for TLS 1.0 and 1.1 should
likely = have a status obsolete and the feature and identities for TLS
1.2 may have status deprecated.

Done.



K.

= --Apple-Mail=_D7B62964-4109-4E7E-AB59-1482FD9F1A63-- From nobody Tue May 25 22:40:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37C23A2148; Tue, 25 May 2021 22:40:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.30.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162200761761.16700.11413232071780443590@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:40:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 05:40:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions Authors : Guangying Zheng Tianran Zhou Thomas Graf Pierre Francois Paolo Lucente Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-02.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2021-05-25 Abstract: This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to collect data from networking devices. A shim header is proposed to facilitate the data streaming directly from the publishing process on network processor of line cards to receivers. The objective is a lightweight approach to enable higher frequency and less performance impact on publisher and receiver process compared to already established notification mechanisms. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 25 23:39:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34333A22DD for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 23:39:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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TLS 1.0 [RFC2246] and TLS 1.1 > [RFC4346] are historic and hence the YANG "feature" statements > enabling them are marked "status obsolete". TLS 1.2 [RFC5246] is > obsoleted by TLS 1.3 [RFC8446] but still is common use, and hence its > "feature" statement is marked "status obsolete". All the "feature" I think it should say deprecated for TLS 1.2 since this is what the YANG definitions say (I guess a typo, and change 'is common use' to 'in common use'). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 26 02:23:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8ED3A27A6 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 02:23:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BE5iIRTAKnEK for ; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 81be820e-ade4-4dc7-1639-08d92027e5a7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 May 2021 09:23:17.7197 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: D8F1gOWDr4nX8vmpBEXdD6ty54FaA2tgxKrgFBIxCzdcjY5Lf6N2sDGEvnfkoAO2bdFnqzbT5RvZjnVyhklKNA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB4054 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 09:23:26 -0000 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= Sent: 25 May 2021 17:29=0A= =0A= On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 03:58:10PM +0000, tom petch wrote:=0A= >=0A= > I guess someone (Tom?) should review RFC 5539 from the TLS 1.3=0A= > perspective to tell the WG if any changes are needed so that the WG=0A= > can take an informed decision whether an update of RFC 5539 is=0A= > necessary or whether what we have is good enough.=0A= >=0A= > =0A= > Well, I tend to forget that RFC5539 is obsolete, obsoleted by RFC7589 whi= ch is X.509 certificate only; no PSK, no naked public keys. My concerns wi= th TLS1.3 mostly relate to PSK which allows data to flow before the handsha= ke is complete, before authentication is complete, which is a problem for s= ome applications as I mentioned before; but staying with X.509 authenticati= on only for Netconf makes life simpler for a 7589bis, replace 1.2 by 1.3 an= d think about the extensions to see what may be needed.=0A= >=0A= =0A= So regarding a possible update of RFC 7589, what is needed?=0A= =0A= + Require TLS 1.3 (update section 8)=0A= =0A= Which extensions should one think about? Do you mean RFC 8773 or=0A= something else?=0A= =0A= =0A= It is more a question of going through 8446 s.4.2 s.9.2 to see what we want= by way of an Application Profile. Thus I would like to prohibit PSK but t= hat prohibits session resumption which is fine by me but I have limited exp= osure to what the world is doing so may be it is not that simple.=0A= =0A= There is another problem which I see as larger and that is that the TAPS WG= is revising RFC6125 and this leans heavily on that RFC and that might take= a year or two to get revised. I don't have a sense of where a 6125bis is = going.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= From nobody Wed May 26 04:53:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7279B3A2BBE for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 04:53:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n7SsX3XPYC5u for ; 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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;btconnect.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=jacobs-university.de; Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:194::23) by AM9P190MB1666.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:20b:3e5::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4173.20; Wed, 26 May 2021 11:53:14 +0000 Received: from AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fd93:9b33:ac92:ea58]) by AM0P190MB0641.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fd93:9b33:ac92:ea58%8]) with mapi id 15.20.4173.021; Wed, 26 May 2021 11:53:14 +0000 Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 13:53:10 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: tom petch Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20210526115310.gysua6ghz5xqnmfz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: tom petch , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525100652.fd3kbsilxscwk7yj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <01000179a3d6eefe-455c9e3e-b42d-4704-8030-a34ae3f52b82-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525144040.qn24ruxiof3ydxa2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210525162921.ec2l7yc276yonzfb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; 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no PSK, no naked public keys. My concerns with TLS1.3 mostly relate to PSK which allows data to flow before the handshake is complete, before authentication is complete, which is a problem for some applications as I mentioned before; but staying with X.509 authentication only for Netconf makes life simpler for a 7589bis, replace 1.2 by 1.3 and think about the extensions to see what may be needed. > > > > So regarding a possible update of RFC 7589, what is needed? > > + Require TLS 1.3 (update section 8) > > Which extensions should one think about? Do you mean RFC 8773 or > something else? > > > It is more a question of going through 8446 s.4.2 s.9.2 to see what we want by way of an Application Profile. Thus I would like to prohibit PSK but that prohibits session resumption which is fine by me but I have limited exposure to what the world is doing so may be it is not that simple. > > There is another problem which I see as larger and that is that the TAPS WG is revising RFC6125 and this leans heavily on that RFC and that might take a year or two to get revised. I don't have a sense of where a 6125bis is going. > > Tom Petch > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 26 07:11:56 2021 Return-Path: <01000179a904608d-c11a7d4b-c1de-4351-a52f-78a8783d5915-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0B63A2FD6 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 07:11:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7egwMXjIx_h4 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 07:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EF0B3A2FD5 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 07:11:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1622038307; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=+J1gq142N9qQ7JbPXPBbTGMtmWCdlB+fMW20CJsrvm4=; b=B+6fXlxevDhUPgIPDxYCJ7qc89NgRz5Iro4kmRoEhbXqhlmvr7czi1sHkE9why6t 3qnBV2l9B5qCGwwg2GmydLi9zwlE8tsFawaL4bXS10RGtVPzOhq3X8LTq6oLNK1KSIi bFd+Wt+bqG4uggvg9PLKIzD6xdNghnJ5dEq9P/2o= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20210526063920.jvs7acjnhma4uimm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 14:11:47 +0000 Cc: tom petch , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <01000179a904608d-c11a7d4b-c1de-4351-a52f-78a8783d5915-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a5bdc371-b665451f-61d4-4364-9d55-e9369f3adc8e-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210526063920.jvs7acjnhma4uimm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.26-54.240.48.110 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 14:11:54 -0000 >> Any version of TLS may be configured. TLS 1.0 [RFC2246] and TLS = 1.1 >> [RFC4346] are historic and hence the YANG "feature" statements >> enabling them are marked "status obsolete". TLS 1.2 [RFC5246] is >> obsoleted by TLS 1.3 [RFC8446] but still is common use, and hence = its >> "feature" statement is marked "status obsolete". All the "feature" >=20 > I think it should say deprecated for TLS 1.2 since this is what the > YANG definitions say Yes. It was only an issue in the Introduction section, as the YANG = had/has 1.2 as =E2=80=9Cdeprecated". > (I guess a typo, and change 'is common use' to > 'in common use'). Quite right, fixed. K. 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Wed, 26 May 2021 15:45:57 +0000 From: tom petch To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates Thread-Index: AQHXUU2yri0EENaQXUOJipepn/woM6r0OwUAgAAKPQCAABCh7YAADbyAgAEWW6+AAC7QAIAAQIAW Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 15:45:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525100652.fd3kbsilxscwk7yj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <01000179a3d6eefe-455c9e3e-b42d-4704-8030-a34ae3f52b82-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20210525144040.qn24ruxiof3ydxa2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20210525162921.ec2l7yc276yonzfb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> , <20210526115310.gysua6ghz5xqnmfz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20210526115310.gysua6ghz5xqnmfz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ecd44798-f70c-4e7f-5e5f-08d9205d5a92 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 May 2021 15:45:57.1771 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bEAjTQlUHtZmx+f/aN2gGKWd4L9u/ygjQ15jGscGS6YEKLMpWVNpkTs429CQp4MAKCKnHdxPO+tQNx/hSu3+Vg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0701MB2772 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 15:46:13 -0000 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= Sent: 26 May 2021 12:53=0A= =0A= This sounds like 'lets wait and see what comes out of the RFC 6125=0A= revision' is the best approach for now.=0A= =0A= =0A= WFM=0A= =0A= I do have an element of FUD about this (as I have about TLS1.3) which hopef= ully will diminish with time.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 09:23:17AM +0000, tom petch wrote:=0A= > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= > Sent: 25 May 2021 17:29=0A= >=0A= > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 03:58:10PM +0000, tom petch wrote:=0A= > >=0A= > > I guess someone (Tom?) should review RFC 5539 from the TLS 1.3=0A= > > perspective to tell the WG if any changes are needed so that the WG=0A= > > can take an informed decision whether an update of RFC 5539 is=0A= > > necessary or whether what we have is good enough.=0A= > >=0A= > > =0A= > > Well, I tend to forget that RFC5539 is obsolete, obsoleted by RFC7589 w= hich is X.509 certificate only; no PSK, no naked public keys. My concerns = with TLS1.3 mostly relate to PSK which allows data to flow before the hands= hake is complete, before authentication is complete, which is a problem for= some applications as I mentioned before; but staying with X.509 authentica= tion only for Netconf makes life simpler for a 7589bis, replace 1.2 by 1.3 = and think about the extensions to see what may be needed.=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > So regarding a possible update of RFC 7589, what is needed?=0A= >=0A= > + Require TLS 1.3 (update section 8)=0A= >=0A= > Which extensions should one think about? Do you mean RFC 8773 or=0A= > something else?=0A= >=0A= > =0A= > It is more a question of going through 8446 s.4.2 s.9.2 to see what we wa= nt by way of an Application Profile. Thus I would like to prohibit PSK but= that prohibits session resumption which is fine by me but I have limited e= xposure to what the world is doing so may be it is not that simple.=0A= >=0A= > There is another problem which I see as larger and that is that the TAPS = WG is revising RFC6125 and this leans heavily on that RFC and that might ta= ke a year or two to get revised. I don't have a sense of where a 6125bis i= s going.=0A= >=0A= > Tom Petch=0A= >=0A= > /js=0A= >=0A= > --=0A= > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= From nobody Wed May 26 09:12:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9A03A0812 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 09:12:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bbe86437-0e96-45c8-2fb5-08d9206106ad X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 May 2021 16:12:14.4450 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: MgnS7StY72A1PpkX+G4pU1pqZ1h9g1hIdyHy02kd5d5OQI7xue8ObxhhZjXk/4TYukcq/iN6MrRBgV0EBnmB8g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6392 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 16:12:23 -0000 From: netconf on behalf of tom petch =0A= Sent: 26 May 2021 16:45=0A= =0A= From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= Sent: 26 May 2021 12:53=0A= =0A= This sounds like 'lets wait and see what comes out of the RFC 6125=0A= revision' is the best approach for now.=0A= =0A= =0A= Oh dear; I got the wrong WG. The 6125 update I-D exists and is in the UTA = WG (which I am not subscribed to but saw a cross post thereof). It is quite= short and is very much an updates, requiring the use of SAN, prohibiting C= N-ID. It was published on April 1st, 2021:-)=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= WFM=0A= =0A= I do have an element of FUD about this (as I have about TLS1.3) which hopef= ully will diminish with time.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /js=0A= =0A= On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 09:23:17AM +0000, tom petch wrote:=0A= > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =0A= > Sent: 25 May 2021 17:29=0A= >=0A= > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 03:58:10PM +0000, tom petch wrote:=0A= > >=0A= > > I guess someone (Tom?) should review RFC 5539 from the TLS 1.3=0A= > > perspective to tell the WG if any changes are needed so that the WG=0A= > > can take an informed decision whether an update of RFC 5539 is=0A= > > necessary or whether what we have is good enough.=0A= > >=0A= > > =0A= > > Well, I tend to forget that RFC5539 is obsolete, obsoleted by RFC7589 w= hich is X.509 certificate only; no PSK, no naked public keys. My concerns = with TLS1.3 mostly relate to PSK which allows data to flow before the hands= hake is complete, before authentication is complete, which is a problem for= some applications as I mentioned before; but staying with X.509 authentica= tion only for Netconf makes life simpler for a 7589bis, replace 1.2 by 1.3 = and think about the extensions to see what may be needed.=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > So regarding a possible update of RFC 7589, what is needed?=0A= >=0A= > + Require TLS 1.3 (update section 8)=0A= >=0A= > Which extensions should one think about? Do you mean RFC 8773 or=0A= > something else?=0A= >=0A= > =0A= > It is more a question of going through 8446 s.4.2 s.9.2 to see what we wa= nt by way of an Application Profile. Thus I would like to prohibit PSK but= that prohibits session resumption which is fine by me but I have limited e= xposure to what the world is doing so may be it is not that simple.=0A= >=0A= > There is another problem which I see as larger and that is that the TAPS = WG is revising RFC6125 and this leans heavily on that RFC and that might ta= ke a year or two to get revised. I don't have a sense of where a 6125bis i= s going.=0A= >=0A= > Tom Petch=0A= >=0A= > /js=0A= >=0A= > --=0A= > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= =0A= --=0A= Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany=0A= Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netconf mailing list=0A= netconf@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A= From nobody Wed May 26 12:05:55 2021 Return-Path: <01000179aa118e62-0d8dd2b2-f001-4ff3-9d10-4b4e15098055-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8B83A109E for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 12:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 81rqxYRE-nro for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 12:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D0DF3A1094 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 12:05:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1622055948; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=6R+hXVu9YK+cIkArA/JFkW735mNpINpacKW3S9l+vN8=; b=WaGgnhuvheSNn2DG1KFLo1u9v9GRonNNjh6MUrK55NYqTl2uCYwFtrpJrsq1CrZ0 Pm+dMkkV3BYJAjJKulZ2d3OyU0vWuWtXcM6E59TdlJSGbH+xKJ9hZj/SX8DlPRYoLXw 2QH8CB0IiClEPYsQoVj3Zwi2BpLenvLCvFoX1prM= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Message-ID: <01000179aa118e62-0d8dd2b2-f001-4ff3-9d10-4b4e15098055-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 19:05:47 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.26-54.240.8.33 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Create IANA-defined modules? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 19:05:54 -0000 [CC-ing Gary, who contributed the =E2=80=9Cietf-[tls/ssh]-common" = modules originally] NETCONF WG, The =E2=80=9Ctls-client-server=E2=80=9D draft just received the = following GitHub =E2=80=9Cissue=E2=80=9D: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dstart=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This is rather a question than an issue, maybe. Given that IANA maintains the TLS parameters at = https://www.iana.org/assignments/tls-parameters/tls-parameters.xhtml, = would it not be better for that content to come from something like = iana-tls[-parameters].yang rather than an IETF maintained YANG module? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dstop=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This is a good point. Perhaps we should move all the identities for the = algorithms defined in the =E2=80=9Cietf-tls-common=E2=80=9D module to an = IANA-maintained =E2=80=9Ciana-tls-parameters=E2=80=9D module. Thoughts? By extension, the same statement applies to the =E2=80=9Cssh-client-server= =E2=80=9D draft and the IANA maintained SSH parameters page: = https://www.iana.org/assignments/ssh-parameters/ssh-parameters.xhtml. One potential issue with doing this is that the existing identities have = =E2=80=9Cif-feature=E2=80=9D statements that constrain them to specific = TLS-versions and algorithm-families, and are sometimes marked as = =E2=80=9Cdeprecated". By example: identity ecdhe-ecdsa-with-aes-128-cbc-sha256 { if-feature "tls-1_2"; if-feature "tls-ecc and tls-sha2"; base cipher-suite-base; status "deprecated"; description "Cipher suite TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256."; reference "RFC 5289: TLS Elliptic Curve Cipher Suites with SHA-256/384 and AES Galois Counter Mode = (GCM)"; } But that information is NOT captured in the IANA-maintained page. What = to do? One option would be to drop all the feature statements. All they do is = limit the totality of algorithms presented to an administrator, when = configuring which algorithms the client/server should support. Worst = case, all algorithms (of a given type) are presented, regardless if = supported by the, e.g., TLS protocol version. When configuring = clients/servers using, e.g., text-based configuration files, such = filters are never available. Does anyone know what Cisco/Juniper/etc. = devices do in their command-line and/or web interfaces? Another option, which I like because it=E2=80=99s less work for me = (unless someone can volunteer a GitHub pull request), is to remove the = ietf-[tls/ssh]-common modules altogether. They=E2=80=99re currently = optional-to-configure and, when not configured, it=E2=80=99s an = implementation-specific decision what, e.g., algorithms to list as being = supported during the protocol handshake. Personally, I=E2=80=99ve never = used them (or implemented support for them), happily deferring to = internal code and underlying libraries. In lieu of us not defining = these modules now, applications could augment-in their own configuration = nodes and, of course, a future WG effort could add them. Thoughts on = this approach? K. 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Thu, 27 May 2021 01:40:45 +0000 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Create IANA-defined modules? 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<01000179aa118e62-0d8dd2b2-f001-4ff3-9d10-4b4e15098055-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <01000179aa118e62-0d8dd2b2-f001-4ff3-9d10-4b4e15098055-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 19:29:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000038f9f805c3468732" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Create IANA-defined modules? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 02:29:36 -0000 --00000000000038f9f805c3468732 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, There are a couple comments I left out of the YD review... 1) if-feature usage in identities IMO YANG conformance is still very spotty at best and conformance for identityref data nodes is especially broken. I realize that if-feature is the standards-track solution to make a value optional-to-implement, but it is fragile, not future-proof, and adds unwarranted complexity. Since identityref conformance does not actually require any of the published identities to be used at all (only the base has to match), the entire concept of conformance for identities needs to be re-evaluated. Is it important to restrict the server to specific identities, or is it sufficient for the client to simply discover what identities are supported? It seems in many cases (e.g. iana-if-type) that the authors clearly do not intend whatsoever that every identity in the module be mandatory-to-implement. It seems like a discovery mechanism for identityref data nodes would be mor= e useful than attempting to prune identities with if-feature-stmts. My preference is that all features and if-features related to identities be removed. 2) perfect is the enemy of good The 5 year milestone is coming up on this work. Pencils down. Time to finish. Andy On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:06 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > [CC-ing Gary, who contributed the =E2=80=9Cietf-[tls/ssh]-common" modules > originally] > > > NETCONF WG, > > The =E2=80=9Ctls-client-server=E2=80=9D draft just received the following= GitHub =E2=80=9Cissue=E2=80=9D: > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dstart=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > This is rather a question than an issue, maybe. > > Given that IANA maintains the TLS parameters at > https://www.iana.org/assignments/tls-parameters/tls-parameters.xhtml, > would it not be better for that content to come from something like > iana-tls[-parameters].yang rather than an IETF maintained YANG module? > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dstop=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > This is a good point. Perhaps we should move all the identities for the > algorithms defined in the =E2=80=9Cietf-tls-common=E2=80=9D module to an = IANA-maintained > =E2=80=9Ciana-tls-parameters=E2=80=9D module. Thoughts? > > By extension, the same statement applies to the =E2=80=9Cssh-client-serve= r=E2=80=9D draft > and the IANA maintained SSH parameters page: > https://www.iana.org/assignments/ssh-parameters/ssh-parameters.xhtml. > > One potential issue with doing this is that the existing identities have > =E2=80=9Cif-feature=E2=80=9D statements that constrain them to specific T= LS-versions and > algorithm-families, and are sometimes marked as =E2=80=9Cdeprecated". By= example: > > identity ecdhe-ecdsa-with-aes-128-cbc-sha256 { > if-feature "tls-1_2"; > if-feature "tls-ecc and tls-sha2"; > base cipher-suite-base; > status "deprecated"; > description > "Cipher suite TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256."; > reference > "RFC 5289: TLS Elliptic Curve Cipher Suites with > SHA-256/384 and AES Galois Counter Mode > (GCM)"; > } > > But that information is NOT captured in the IANA-maintained page. What > to do? > > One option would be to drop all the feature statements. All they do is > limit the totality of algorithms presented to an administrator, when > configuring which algorithms the client/server should support. Worst cas= e, > all algorithms (of a given type) are presented, regardless if supported b= y > the, e.g., TLS protocol version. When configuring clients/servers using, > e.g., text-based configuration files, such filters are never available. > Does anyone know what Cisco/Juniper/etc. devices do in their command-line > and/or web interfaces? > > Another option, which I like because it=E2=80=99s less work for me (unles= s someone > can volunteer a GitHub pull request), is to remove the > ietf-[tls/ssh]-common modules altogether. They=E2=80=99re currently > optional-to-configure and, when not configured, it=E2=80=99s an > implementation-specific decision what, e.g., algorithms to list as being > supported during the protocol handshake. Personally, I=E2=80=99ve never = used them > (or implemented support for them), happily deferring to internal code and > underlying libraries. In lieu of us not defining these modules now, > applications could augment-in their own configuration nodes and, of cours= e, > a future WG effort could add them. Thoughts on this approach? > > K. > > > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --00000000000038f9f805c3468732 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

There are a couple comme= nts I left out of the YD review...

1) if-feature u= sage in identities

IMO YANG conformance is still v= ery spotty at best and=C2=A0conformance for identityref data nodes
is especially broken.=C2=A0 I realize that if-feature is the standards-tr= ack solution to
make a value optional-to-implement, but it is=C2= =A0fragile, not=C2=A0future-proof, and adds unwarranted complexity.

Since identityref conformance does not actually require a= ny of the published identities
to be used at all (only the base h= as to match), the entire concept of conformance for identities needs
<= div>to be re-evaluated.

Is it important to restric= t the server to specific identities,
or is it sufficient for the = client to simply discover what identities are supported?

It seems in many cases (e.g. iana-if-type) that the authors clearly = do not intend
whatsoever that every identity in the module be man= datory-to-implement.
It seems like a discovery mechanism for iden= tityref=C2=A0data nodes would be more
useful than attempting to p= rune identities with if-feature-stmts.

My preferen= ce is that all features and if-features related to identities be removed.


2) perfect is the enemy of good<= /div>

The 5 year milestone is coming up on this work.
Pencils down. Time to finish.



Andy



On Wed, May 26, 2021 at= 12:06 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ie= tf@watsen.net> wrote:
[CC-ing Gary, who contributed the =E2=80=9Cietf-[tls/ssh]-comm= on" modules originally]


NETCONF WG,

The =E2=80=9Ctls-client-server=E2=80=9D draft just received the following G= itHub =E2=80=9Cissue=E2=80=9D:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dstart=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This is rather a question than an issue, maybe.

Given that IANA maintains the TLS parameters at=C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.iana.org/assignments/tls-parameters= /tls-parameters.xhtml, would it not be better for that content to come = from something like iana-tls[-parameters].yang rather than an IETF maintain= ed YANG module?
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dstop=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

This is a good point.=C2=A0 Perhaps we should move all the identities for t= he algorithms defined in the =E2=80=9Cietf-tls-common=E2=80=9D module to an= IANA-maintained =E2=80=9Ciana-tls-parameters=E2=80=9D module.=C2=A0 Though= ts?

By extension, the same statement applies to the =E2=80=9Cssh-client-server= =E2=80=9D draft and the IANA maintained SSH parameters page: https://www.iana.org/assignments/ssh-parameter= s/ssh-parameters.xhtml.

One potential issue with doing this is that the existing identities have = =E2=80=9Cif-feature=E2=80=9D statements that constrain them to specific TLS= -versions and algorithm-families, and are sometimes marked as =E2=80=9Cdepr= ecated".=C2=A0 By example:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 identity ecdhe-ecdsa-with-aes-128-cbc-sha256 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature "tls-1_2";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature "tls-ecc and tls-sha2";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0base cipher-suite-base;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0status "deprecated";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Cipher suite TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA= _WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reference
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "RFC 5289: TLS Elliptic Curve Ciphe= r Suites with
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SHA-256/384 and AES Galois Counter Mode (GCM= )";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }

But that information is NOT captured in the IANA-maintained page.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0What to do?

One option would be to drop all the feature statements.=C2=A0 All they do i= s limit the totality of algorithms presented to an administrator, when conf= iguring which algorithms the client/server should support.=C2=A0 Worst case= , all algorithms (of a given type) are presented, regardless if supported b= y the, e.g., TLS protocol version.=C2=A0 When configuring clients/servers u= sing, e.g., text-based configuration files, such filters are never availabl= e.=C2=A0 Does anyone know what Cisco/Juniper/etc. devices do in their comma= nd-line and/or web interfaces?

Another option, which I like because it=E2=80=99s less work for me (unless = someone can volunteer a GitHub pull request), is to remove the ietf-[tls/ss= h]-common modules altogether.=C2=A0 They=E2=80=99re currently optional-to-c= onfigure and, when not configured, it=E2=80=99s an implementation-specific = decision what, e.g., algorithms to list as being supported during the proto= col handshake.=C2=A0 Personally, I=E2=80=99ve never used them (or implement= ed support for them), happily deferring to internal code and underlying lib= raries.=C2=A0 In lieu of us not defining these modules now, applications co= uld augment-in their own configuration nodes and, of course, a future WG ef= fort could add them.=C2=A0 Thoughts on this approach?

K.



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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: af59e5bc-95a4-46d6-ea31-08d920fff36f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 May 2021 11:09:52.1358 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8O972UofI8SBTXwjgHHDKK8AcpqpGGsErVxomDepp/McUS/tKKl65PG39CIPpYHrr6aQHD8midtP2Ebz+HPjQQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5057 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] More complications was Re: netconf-tls wasRe: Summary of updates X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 11:10:00 -0000 From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 25 May 2021 23:55=0A= Subject: Re: netconf-tls wasRe: [netconf] Summary of updates=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Top posting a new and different issue.=0A= =0A= server case psk references ServerKeyExchange and psk-identity-hint neither = of which exist in TLS1.3. The client sends an extension PreSharedKeyExtens= ion which contains a list of identities from which the server selects one a= s selected-identity for which the identifier is uint16 indexing into the cl= ient's list. RFC8446 s.4.2.11.=0A= =0A= The client description also needs amending.=0A= =0A= TLS1.2 was extended to use tickets in this area to aid session resumption; = these have now gone and been replaced by this extension. I would not sugge= st adding support for tickets.=0A= =0A= As I may have said before, TLS 1.3 is different.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch =0A= =0A= =0A= Hi Tom,=0A= =0A= Pruning resolved items below.=0A= = From nobody Thu May 27 08:00:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F353A11AB for ; Thu, 27 May 2021 08:00:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.698, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DvkyX3aCEAMb for ; Thu, 27 May 2021 08:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10on2096.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.92.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FFD93A11CB for ; Thu, 27 May 2021 08:00:26 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=j0Cd88N1E1UCPjT0rnObn1MLQUCbatPRwFOqZLFUhnn6/VRcc5l6rRVlqwItsL3S69Hk7GQxRKBxY8i17TTo7saweFnWbC7a57UPGW/hIZJQdUF55YJcXJdQG80AXBfyCzRamKZ3vacFuXHgOkRD+1SwThw2ilVguWnEmv8HjW/MI/W9ix1lUMCGcqCgORj4o7mn+5PX0ESu3CKYjPs6o8P+smwl36SAnoQr+B7FSb4Va3hztYbVrPQXwDcNwlqzlVOrcMNZzPYZS0JEZV7ztnJS0Zw63v9tdIa+FnDmbbDWAC6GHjM+PdCzCCYeT5FikgcGIqLFsH25cJ6zk/dV3g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=M5UtMBa5fsPJDfHnvnz/5uvqKx9eaBrkqHkOdLgEW7Q=; b=dxomwUJJ/uwKAy02q085a6ikIZ2JGR6tFvgs+yrq2KcFkmSiab2g33WpLuGsEXbGxm6ydk74tAiEw0wuRSe62OWY/5Y9GieAaMJksX8sHcaz6KskK789epSAGuBZILqs4FrwjGpZxQ3fvIgYHzKEjm/LXrrxS97IU718U2tvppMqYOffBhfLgoQG6QMfVDL2O3SFU7HLVxYfMrX2S9mfo6+w7gamC1nfpkEUPycFGFv/XDn7yhp2ftE7fXFlrgWgqBtgHutOo0zoMH0vHV9PBKJ0zI05sNET30YogsX8wwQui1Bx6Y38ToMAeRMi4SsFRrhohaMxkogPalwQv17USw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nokia.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nokia.com; dkim=pass header.d=nokia.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=M5UtMBa5fsPJDfHnvnz/5uvqKx9eaBrkqHkOdLgEW7Q=; b=yKRUF5cjwKMQ3lIN+xCr0Fo1g9HyNgCuFAFzc8biSMNDSYoTJnab3P+r31SLMQsREGZGQS92418ISQ60Ub8OOzr1IE4iJlZgNfWumf1eyuOUyYpsCmOFNjr5tR7x7MSq3h5yUNBJGbsU7gbQLZ1wKIcvqmpyzQYMdn7VJTT0vcQ= Received: from DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:41::29) by DM6PR08MB4090.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:85::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4150.27; Thu, 27 May 2021 15:00:01 +0000 Received: from DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::616e:7de0:be27:e9b1]) by DM6PR08MB5084.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::616e:7de0:be27:e9b1%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4129.037; Thu, 27 May 2021 15:00:01 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: Jernej Tuljak , Ladislav Lhotka , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] YANG Library 1.1: a deviation module may exist without a module entry? 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h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=SM3eUGrZ789HOzcOQ5cc4ObpE+o/yLX+Nh4VblLqcdU=; b=RIo8M9o3xdvApYQNN6Y8SHJQrVdWAmVtB2sLbEGsXRL2AXmwzIKZCFxDURGyDg9v aa43TO0V+4/7oIELFDxwZS2qc7m/F/JesJrq/AiOVUSb1rkxHbJMJn57VbCWUnAcdOS i9VLReAwzEFYrTUOFqYhk0UfxR6sABR8du0RPQ0c= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000179ae5debf2-86973cf9-70d7-4601-b901-962d8ca86334-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7DE08278-6A98-4BAB-963F-31C812BCC16C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 15:07:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: <1448778391.413238.1622108131158.JavaMail.zimbra@insa-lyon.fr> Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif@ietf.org, pierre francois , Axel Rosenstiehl , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Alex Huang Feng References: <1448778391.413238.1622108131158.JavaMail.zimbra@insa-lyon.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.27-54.240.8.31 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC8639 capability on https-notif receiver implementation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 15:07:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7DE08278-6A98-4BAB-963F-31C812BCC16C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 [CC-ing NETCONF WG mailing list] Hi Alex, Thanks for reaching out! > I am part of Unyte team and we are now implementing and testing the = https-notif protocol on the draft = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-08 = Always good to know about independent implementations in the works. > We have implemented a library in C for the receiver and are planning = to publish it as an open-source receiver implementation soon. Nice contribution - which capabilities will it support? [be aware that there is an ongoing discussion regarding how capabilities = should be supported: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/JmjttafVmRDaFzeLLNlYgrqfZWw = ] > We have some questions about the rfc-8639 capability (supporting the = state machine defined in the rfc 8639). > As I understood in the draft, https-notif receiver is not assumed to = be a netconf/restconf server Correct. > and as I read in the rfc-8639, the state machine is implemented in the = publisher. > I'd like to know how does this capability impacts the receiver = implementation. Hopefully the RFC 8639 authors can chime in, but my understanding is = that the various notifications (subscription-started, = subscription-modified, etc.) enable the receiver to maintain a local = copy of the state machine, in order to know how to internally-dispatch = notifications? > In the draft:=20 > Note that, for RFC 8639 = configured = subscriptions, the very first > notification must be the "subscription-started" notification. >=20 > Does this mean that on the receiver side, the first = "/relay-notification" notification we receive is the = "subscription-started" rpc body ? Yes. > Do we need to save a state in the receiver for later interaction ? Or = the RFC 8639 support is just the first notification with the rpc ? See previous comment, but my understanding is tenuous and hope others to = chime in. > Another observation on the draft, in the example 3.4, the json body = for the GET capabilities is not valid (a colon is missed after the = "receiver-capabilities"). Thanks! Normally we run all code blocks through validation, but some of = the code blocks in this draft elude that given the use of a pseudo YANG = module... > Looking forward to hearing from you, >=20 > Alex Huang Feng > INSA de Lyon | INSA T=C3=A9l=C3=A9com K. --Apple-Mail=_7DE08278-6A98-4BAB-963F-31C812BCC16C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 [CC-ing NETCONF WG mailing list]


Hi = Alex,

Thanks = for reaching out!


I am part of Unyte team and = we are now implementing and testing the https-notif protocol on the = draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-= notif-08
<= div>
Always good to know about independent = implementations in the works.


We have implemented a library in C for the receiver and are = planning to publish it as an open-source receiver implementation = soon.
Nice contribution  - which capabilities will = it support?

[be aware that there is = an ongoing discussion regarding how capabilities should be = supported: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/JmjttafVmRDaFzeLL= NlYgrqfZWw]


We have some = questions about the rfc-8639 capability (supporting the state machine = defined in the rfc 8639).
As = I understood in the draft, https-notif receiver is not assumed to be a = netconf/restconf = server
Correct.


and as I read in the rfc-8639, the state machine is = implemented in the publisher.
I'd like to know how = does this capability impacts the receiver = implementation.

Hopefully the RFC 8639 authors can = chime in, but my understanding is that the various notifications = (subscription-started, subscription-modified, etc.) enable the receiver = to maintain a local copy of the state machine, in order to know how to = internally-dispatch notifications?

In the = draft: 
Note =
that, for RFC 8639 configured subscriptions, the =
very first
   notification must be the "subscription-started" notification.

Does this mean that on the = receiver side, the first "/relay-notification" notification we receive = is the "subscription-started" rpc body = ?

Yes.


Do we need = to save a state in the receiver for later interaction ? Or the RFC 8639 = support is just the first notification with the rpc ?
See previous comment, but my understanding is = tenuous and hope others to chime in.


Another = observation on the draft, in the example 3.4, the json body for the GET = capabilities is not valid (a colon is missed after the "receiver-capabilities").

Thanks! =  Normally we run all code blocks through validation, but some of = the code blocks in this draft elude that given the use of a pseudo YANG = module...


Looking forward to hearing from = you,

Alex = Huang Feng
INSA de Lyon | INSA = T=C3=A9l=C3=A9com

K.


= --Apple-Mail=_7DE08278-6A98-4BAB-963F-31C812BCC16C-- From nobody Thu May 27 12:05:32 2021 Return-Path: <01000179af378320-73241cbb-c5a4-45dd-8c87-03ff603cc2f0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C263A07AB; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:05:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Ac-5cgsABs2; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3A063A07A4; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:05:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1622142321; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=Y5HzRcAqOnoXwQe66cWxjccTgEbcCxJR4aKH8wYAqGQ=; b=JQTpEc3EpTGs6pCNO3EmoiXwfQti0lydfTs4aEQlDTXQrb3eQrpZmB8cYvGq2ow3 puostXynMfrXkQz9Pjp7ZmoX/V0hEL0gkrEahnbH9KWQR1HpUZkdVKmm8nDghj89oW+ OzeBupDHh9jSWTGmKtvUQmpTEAgRHEwMzQMD1qCg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <162197047222.6755.5719177112947542346@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:05:21 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <01000179af378320-73241cbb-c5a4-45dd-8c87-03ff603cc2f0-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <162197047222.6755.5719177112947542346@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.27-54.240.48.110 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:05:31 -0000 [moving all alias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list] Hi Andy, Thank you for your review! > On May 25, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > Review result: Ready >=20 > Comments: >=20 > 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities >=20 > [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] >=20 > These modules are intentionally abstract. > There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. > Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a > specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). >=20 > There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved > by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create > protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. True, and we have, e.g., the "netconf-client-server" and = "restconf-client-server" drafts, and the PCE WG has the "pcep-yang=E2=80=9D= draft. There=E2=80=99s a leap of faith, but also some running code, = so hopefully within the intentions of an =E2=80=9CRFC=E2=80=9D. > There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the > same everywhere, and the only difference will be the > path from root to the objects in these groupings. > In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be > different. What assumption? Do you mean the description statements in the various = "[ssh/tls]-[client/server]-grouping=E2=80=9D groupings. For instance, = see the 2nd paragraph below: grouping ssh-client-grouping { description "A reusable grouping for configuring a SSH client without any consideration for how an underlying TCP session is established. Note that this grouping uses fairly typical descendent node names such that a stack of 'uses' statements will have name conflicts. It is intended that the consuming data model will resolve the issue (e.g., by wrapping the 'uses' statement in a container called 'ssh-client-parameters'). This model purposely does not do this itself so as to provide maximum flexibility to consuming models."; While it is true that =E2=80=9Cstacks=E2=80=9D (or sibling =E2=80=9Cuses=E2= =80=9D statements) are expected (from a "best practice=E2=80=9D POV), = I=E2=80=99m unaware of any Xpath expressions enforcing this. > Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. Could you be more specific in what text you=E2=80=99d like to see in = which sections? > 2) same feature names in 2 modules >=20 > - feature userauth-hostbased > - feature userauth-none > - feature userauth-password > - feature userauth-publickey >=20 > The ietf-ssh-client and ietf-ssh-server modules both use these > feature names. IMO users will not expect this, and this will cause > confusion. >=20 > Why can't these features be defined once in ietf-ssh-common.yang? > Seems like client and server will advertise the feature for > implementing their relevant values. Well, these were named differently in just the previous version of the = ssh draft=E2=80=A6from the change log: * Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*" * Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*=E2=80=9D Juergen felt that these were more natural names for SSH. I agreed, = mostly just to get the =E2=80=9Cmonkey off my back=E2=80=9D, but it = breaks with the convention used by the collection if client-server = drafts (where all the variations of "[client/server]-[auth/identity]=E2=80= =9D are typically used). =20 Yes, =E2=80=9Cuserauth=E2=80=9D is the term used in the SSH drafts, and = I didn=E2=80=99t think is was a big deal or, really, any deal at all, = for the same feature names to be used in both drafts, such that I'm = surprised by your "users will not expect this, and this will cause = confusion=E2=80=9D comment... Moving the definitions to the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D module is = possible, of course, but tricky since the description statements say = different things, to address the different contexts in which they=E2=80=99= re used. The description statement could be expanded to address each = context, but this will get wordy=E2=80=A6I wonder if it wouldn=E2=80=99t = be better to just go back to the previous =E2=80=9Cclient-[auth/identity]-= *=E2=80=9D prefixes - thoughts? K. From nobody Thu May 27 12:05:38 2021 Return-Path: <01000179af378d51-c0a96433-9313-4b0d-bf3f-0a8f54be4852-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850E03A07B3; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JTXOOAeiMmjE; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC1883A07A8; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:05:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1622142324; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=1ODFTHR9NW2iDEgAWx/Zorq4dJtPYzCmEYosaJ6N38Y=; b=NrYsEFXwKHLsGBU0aPNND3YjLxZ4/lsKCKaQKqQG9+2kzW5Xm+O0TYq2F5YeNoRy ojCiEPM99TPXOcZ0Ckc0Aozjmpoqx66tHzfwEAfFUPKa8PmDlfKHE1lCobgx3/28zGj Tx9aLtflx3xAy2AxTulFc4xqaKcRTVcFma5aTIlQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <162197056513.1767.16350161534776831688@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:05:24 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <01000179af378d51-c0a96433-9313-4b0d-bf3f-0a8f54be4852-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <162197056513.1767.16350161534776831688@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.27-54.240.48.92 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:05:37 -0000 [moving all alias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list] Hi Andy, Thank you for your review! > On May 25, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > Review result: Ready >=20 > Comments: >=20 > I am not commenting on the TLS 1.0 and 1.3 onging discussions. > The WG decision does not impact the YANG module review. >=20 > 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities >=20 > [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] >=20 > These modules are intentionally abstract. > There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. > Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a > specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). >=20 > There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved > by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create > protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. >=20 > There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the > same everywhere, and the only difference will be the > path from root to the objects in these groupings. > In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be > different. >=20 > Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. Let=E2=80=99s discuss this in my response to the same comment in your = review of the ssh-client-server draft. > 2) mandatory choice of only optional-to-implement cases >=20 > The choice /ietf-tls-client:client-identity/auth-type > is mandatory but all cases have if-feature-stmts. > Does draft mention 1 of the 4 features MUST be implemented? The same construct is present in the ietf-tls-server module as = well...I=E2=80=99ll apply the agreed upon solution to both. Would the = following update suffice? OLD: choice auth-type { mandatory true; description "A choice amongst authentication types.=E2=80=9D; NEW: choice auth-type { mandatory true; description "A choice amongst authentication types, of which one must be enabled (via its associated 'feature') and selected.=E2=80=9D= ; K. From nobody Thu May 27 12:15:50 2021 Return-Path: <01000179af410c5f-ae202ba4-e627-4fda-8569-643c0dcd2835-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A5F3A08EA for ; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:15:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xaHviv_Qdyo2 for ; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8B233A08E4 for ; Thu, 27 May 2021 12:15:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1622142946; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=tG+kI0U0q6Ej3CQKZByrQGZVnHX3oHTeU6OB/47dj8Y=; b=SxIs0B5gdGpfv2C3j/fBX5JNqvGWBOw83bPiaryLmswjSlykA4hCV4Jlwp1Kam96 FJrRsg4YrIPnhhHdPhx+1RWLDE2w49yUFBW+Bix9vnpkhK9Vj1f0/zZdUmR9DvDF1s/ +59z2er+M9kEfVA/6h3t+XTY4+X95Baviygs5V3s= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:15:46 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <01000179af410c5f-ae202ba4-e627-4fda-8569-643c0dcd2835-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <01000179aa118e62-0d8dd2b2-f001-4ff3-9d10-4b4e15098055-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.05.27-54.240.48.92 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Create IANA-defined modules? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:15:49 -0000 Hi Andy, > There are a couple comments I left out of the YD review=E2=80=A6 No problem. > 1) if-feature usage in identities >=20 > IMO YANG conformance is still very spotty at best and conformance for = identityref data nodes > is especially broken. I realize that if-feature is the = standards-track solution to > make a value optional-to-implement, but it is fragile, not = future-proof, and adds unwarranted complexity. >=20 > Since identityref conformance does not actually require any of the = published identities > to be used at all (only the base has to match), the entire concept of = conformance for identities needs > to be re-evaluated. >=20 > Is it important to restrict the server to specific identities, > or is it sufficient for the client to simply discover what identities = are supported? >=20 > It seems in many cases (e.g. iana-if-type) that the authors clearly do = not intend > whatsoever that every identity in the module be = mandatory-to-implement. > It seems like a discovery mechanism for identityref data nodes would = be more > useful than attempting to prune identities with if-feature-stmts. >=20 > My preference is that all features and if-features related to = identities be removed. If we go the route of moving the identities to IANA-maintained modules, = then this will likely happen automatically. If we go the route of = dropping the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D modules altogether, then this = becomes a non-issue. In either case, the if-featured identities = disappear. > 2) perfect is the enemy of good >=20 > The 5 year milestone is coming up on this work. > Pencils down. Time to finish. :sigh: > Andy K. From nobody Fri May 28 16:59:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACE63A3AC2 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 16:59:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jiYlOE143RhP for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 16:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9693A3AC0 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 16:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id r5so7687219lfr.5 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 16:59:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=S22UA2kIKMBtW2jxIfACVfUJOjI/Nk6AvuHaHusTozQ=; b=l3IU0ZEK+p+UfyCCnxUnJ5D2TwF8fPmmKXPcQ7Vd1L+MpyFAinbgjC4S10hsB6maZh k/92+mPsIJMZ7owUUUQ2JDuBhh1FbPms25+y+FehTea8RTJCW1bQpXo3TdQvO9guvTCe j/WnbVK3Mr3YiIE6Cmvv+Zw8PA+zb1P8SQUsblC5jp02EIiKwsME0q1U1aPaIMqO/Mpn LhiBI3zZhha/Y5yYdH57F7BDT6p131H+6KpxYhdfB/L+VOjKzcJtEP6HSQnrDXwpmlOv 2RuM2i0hNjL60mJTDlZu/fqJRy4twyropv4ofFC7FWafAiNxUvjUFDKiYcoF2/yfrSb4 tryQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=S22UA2kIKMBtW2jxIfACVfUJOjI/Nk6AvuHaHusTozQ=; b=szPQXnFoCMt3cRaztx+XgMrT44y8QPU3MOvSx9YPabdn1SwcBBbhc5q24WbYH8g51t /sxjPabAnTAn7imZ5wchGFf/xg+GfuiqVrD+NR2T0PO3fEB8Z3h82QYbaWS1kH7nJjG5 TnxMuOXel0tPqDfkf8bMIRm05PX/b4NFQ1J0Vh+ZX6m+J5e8tuPwn7nG/GcIgxEHDTQc dXAbiTJxV8lnKg1ohpWkYTI8MMdaIwhP9qTn0OVr/5TxrO4d9EbPl8KgsS6Ckms/fGDq tlu4+CGZeV9gSJqBD8BICTVqnvZ7q4oP9IhwIvOvWR1U1o3obFMYkClbmHpnZGfU+Z5C BjQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530xWX6xMg2kqFiyTAxZqtagH/J2mriSdZ/6p2ULsTCuCZfgvP17 cZEmyu/S7aNS0tuAcRgAnhzB6bmd0HgUYrn+ALoTYFdJR7KYcQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwofVod0PP3JO4ebQQgFt/NRXU4fUwQnDpU7aZ82wAr/vUWBYEkhTSIExhXiNCPOX6y+mHJjIcq/s/xiQFFHYc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:20c6:: with SMTP id u6mr7541566lfr.38.1622246362938; Fri, 28 May 2021 16:59:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162197047222.6755.5719177112947542346@ietfa.amsl.com> <01000179af378320-73241cbb-c5a4-45dd-8c87-03ff603cc2f0-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <01000179af378320-73241cbb-c5a4-45dd-8c87-03ff603cc2f0-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 16:59:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000033914205c36caa89" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 23:59:32 -0000 --00000000000033914205c36caa89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > [moving all alias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list] > > > Hi Andy, > > Thank you for your review! > > > On May 25, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > > Review result: Ready > > > > Comments: > > > > 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities > > > > [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] > > > > These modules are intentionally abstract. > > There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. > > Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a > > specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). > > > > There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved > > by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create > > protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. > > True, and we have, e.g., the "netconf-client-server" and > "restconf-client-server" drafts, and the PCE WG has the "pcep-yang=E2=80= =9D draft. > There=E2=80=99s a leap of faith, but also some running code, so hopefull= y within > the intentions of an =E2=80=9CRFC=E2=80=9D. > > > > There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the > > same everywhere, and the only difference will be the > > path from root to the objects in these groupings. > > In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be > > different. > > What assumption? Do you mean the description statements in the various > "[ssh/tls]-[client/server]-grouping=E2=80=9D groupings. For instance, se= e the 2nd > paragraph below: > > grouping ssh-client-grouping { > description > "A reusable grouping for configuring a SSH client without > any consideration for how an underlying TCP session is > established. > > Note that this grouping uses fairly typical descendent > node names such that a stack of 'uses' statements will > have name conflicts. It is intended that the consuming > data model will resolve the issue (e.g., by wrapping > the 'uses' statement in a container called > 'ssh-client-parameters'). This model purposely does > not do this itself so as to provide maximum flexibility > to consuming models."; > > While it is true that =E2=80=9Cstacks=E2=80=9D (or sibling =E2=80=9Cuses= =E2=80=9D statements) are expected > (from a "best practice=E2=80=9D POV), I=E2=80=99m unaware of any Xpath ex= pressions > enforcing this. > > I was re-reading RFC 7950 and there is nothing to add in these drafts about it. Groupings do not define any nodes in the schema tree. In the old days the IETF used to be concerned with Interoperability Reports in order to advance an RFC from Proposed Standard to Draft Standard. Now that that is no longer done, it is not that important to point out that interoperability can only be evaluated for the module with the "uses" statement, since that is how schema tree nodes are defined from a grouping template. > > Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. > > Could you be more specific in what text you=E2=80=99d like to see in whic= h > sections? > > see bove -- no changes requested > > > > 2) same feature names in 2 modules > > > > - feature userauth-hostbased > > - feature userauth-none > > - feature userauth-password > > - feature userauth-publickey > > > > The ietf-ssh-client and ietf-ssh-server modules both use these > > feature names. IMO users will not expect this, and this will cause > > confusion. > > > > Why can't these features be defined once in ietf-ssh-common.yang? > > Seems like client and server will advertise the feature for > > implementing their relevant values. > > Well, these were named differently in just the previous version of the ss= h > draft=E2=80=A6from the change log: > > * Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*" > * Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*=E2=80=9D > > Juergen felt that these were more natural names for SSH. I agreed, > mostly just to get the =E2=80=9Cmonkey off my back=E2=80=9D, but it break= s with the > convention used by the collection if client-server drafts (where all the > variations of "[client/server]-[auth/identity]=E2=80=9D are typically use= d). > > Yes, =E2=80=9Cuserauth=E2=80=9D is the term used in the SSH drafts, and I= didn=E2=80=99t think is > was a big deal or, really, any deal at all, for the same feature names to > be used in both drafts, such that I'm surprised by your "users will not > expect this, and this will cause confusion=E2=80=9D comment... > > Moving the definitions to the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D module is possible= , of course, but > tricky since the description statements say different things, to address > the different contexts in which they=E2=80=99re used. The description st= atement > could be expanded to address each context, but this will get wordy=E2=80= =A6I wonder > if it wouldn=E2=80=99t be better to just go back to the previous > =E2=80=9Cclient-[auth/identity]-*=E2=80=9D prefixes - thoughts? > > OK -- not a big deal except possibly when the feature name is used outside of YANG, without any prefix to tell which one is meant. I agree the different description-stmts make it difficult to write a common feature definition, so this is not important to change either. > > > > K. > > Andy --00000000000033914205c36caa89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM Kent= Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrot= e:
[moving all a= lias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list]


Hi Andy,

Thank you for your review!

> On May 25, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wro= te:
>
> Reviewer: Andy Bierman
> Review result: Ready
>
> Comments:
>
> 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities
>
> [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts]
>
> These modules are intentionally abstract.
> There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all.
> Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a
> specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF).
>
> There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved
> by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to creat= e
> protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects.

True, and we have, e.g., the "netconf-client-server" and "re= stconf-client-server" drafts, and the PCE WG has the "pcep-yang= =E2=80=9D draft.=C2=A0 =C2=A0There=E2=80=99s a leap of faith, but also some= running code, so hopefully within the intentions of an =E2=80=9CRFC=E2=80= =9D.


> There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the
> same everywhere, and the only difference will be the
> path from root to the objects in these groupings.
> In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be
> different.

What assumption?=C2=A0 Do you mean the description statements in the variou= s "[ssh/tls]-[client/server]-grouping=E2=80=9D groupings.=C2=A0 For in= stance, see the 2nd paragraph below:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0grouping ssh-client-grouping {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"A reusable grouping for configuring= a SSH client without
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 any consideration for how an underlying = TCP session is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 established.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Note that this grouping uses fairly typi= cal descendent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 node names such that a stack of 'use= s' statements will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have name conflicts.=C2=A0 It is intende= d that the consuming
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data model will resolve the issue (e.g.,= by wrapping
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the 'uses' statement in a contai= ner called
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 'ssh-client-parameters').=C2=A0 = This model purposely does
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not do this itself so as to provide maxi= mum flexibility
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to consuming models.";

While it is true that =E2=80=9Cstacks=E2=80=9D (or sibling =E2=80=9Cuses=E2= =80=9D statements) are expected (from a "best practice=E2=80=9D POV), = I=E2=80=99m unaware of any Xpath expressions enforcing this.



I was re-reading RFC 79= 50 and there is nothing to add in these drafts about it.
Grouping= s=C2=A0do not define any nodes in the schema tree.

In the old days the IETF used to be concerned with Interoperability Report= s
in order to advance an RFC from Proposed Standard to Draft Stan= dard.
Now that that is no longer done, it is not that important t= o point out that
interoperability can only be evaluated for the m= odule with the "uses" statement,
since that is how sche= ma tree nodes are defined from a grouping template.



> Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues.

Could you be more specific in what text you=E2=80=99d like to see in which = sections?


see bove -- no changes requested
=
=C2=A0


> 2) same feature names in 2 modules
>
>=C2=A0 - feature userauth-hostbased
>=C2=A0 - feature userauth-none
>=C2=A0 - feature userauth-password
>=C2=A0 - feature userauth-publickey
>
> The ietf-ssh-client and ietf-ssh-server modules both use these
> feature names. IMO users will not expect this, and this will cause
> confusion.
>
> Why can't these features be defined once in ietf-ssh-common.yang?<= br> > Seems like client and server will advertise the feature for
> implementing their relevant values.

Well, these were named differently in just the previous version of the ssh = draft=E2=80=A6from the change log:

=C2=A0*=C2=A0 Renamed "client-auth-*" to "userauth-*" =C2=A0*=C2=A0 Renamed "client-identity-*" to "userauth-*=E2= =80=9D

Juergen felt that these were more natural names for SSH.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I agre= ed, mostly just to get the =E2=80=9Cmonkey off my back=E2=80=9D, but it bre= aks with the convention used by the collection if client-server drafts (whe= re all the variations of "[client/server]-[auth/identity]=E2=80=9D are= typically used).=C2=A0

Yes, =E2=80=9Cuserauth=E2=80=9D is the term used in the SSH drafts, and I d= idn=E2=80=99t think is was a big deal or, really, any deal at all, for the = same feature names to be used in both drafts, such that I'm surprised b= y your "users will not expect this, and this will cause confusion=E2= =80=9D comment...

Moving the definitions to the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D module is possible, = of course, but tricky since the description statements say different things= , to address the different contexts in which they=E2=80=99re used.=C2=A0 Th= e description statement could be expanded to address each context, but this= will get wordy=E2=80=A6I wonder if it wouldn=E2=80=99t be better to just g= o back to the previous =E2=80=9Cclient-[auth/identity]-*=E2=80=9D prefixes = - thoughts?


OK -- not a big deal except possibly w= hen the feature name is used outside of YANG,
without any prefix = to tell which one is meant.=C2=A0 I agree the different description-stmts
make it difficult to write a common feature definition, so this is= not important to change either.


= =C2=A0



K.


Andy
=C2=A0
--00000000000033914205c36caa89-- From nobody Fri May 28 17:00:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F34F3A3ACA for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:00:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Ak0ZUz4sUUz for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAE323A3AC8 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id r5so7690381lfr.5 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:00:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/9WvDhyD/ti6XiKY8v4OuIuFILEG+qStbBGcKD1eRy8=; b=S6SPS6egcUtf6J8GcRUUi8lURrJZ7YV0l4y4jUaxLb7xZZtqYcZ5IiznauAHJQC3nZ rYtSftt9Tizgz+gyDWPRWIeRql3nqI8fPWxopJ9b51jJSMZL7OE8lrkspm5vPmYJMGkK 6qT/nw1LjURvM2VMT82cNrZNkf6rvMX7omJfuUSy0g8tvGELQbCetH3gAbJAtouEyYl5 xJFWM0qrysfl+kW0K28Wu/KgjWHUzL9yBJcmpfBiGgnENe0VR5n+HvznvlGKqaXwPva8 aiQIaoJSyO4EHmYSYcHzVFmdCoFtSEEU97tk2NszjVAPrcMRnUaLhXdg+yfgSNxpNnhS Ci9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/9WvDhyD/ti6XiKY8v4OuIuFILEG+qStbBGcKD1eRy8=; b=U8WzT7naS2iuAV32zVzM+zFkwJBJsbvwRbMiSIfPeOvzBP6EXOgIbjtjBZKYIMsv8u ZXl6NWA7mxLffTIV8Clb0bSSz0fjnrQhADFuBBURsrgwsUSHEJvCvO3RQTtNbBc6ehrY bLjxyfYLEr8mrz+YG65DCIYciMxwwz/S4hedfPFO/TQPIuHsEfKmuBDC3uSXGbgjhPq8 cjSWxhQWKFOh/rmNsd7I84HQFLzx89CGelYTiz0mYIkZuAYkVwXLpRqTjX9Hh3x9RJ94 Dp7sBsQDTbJUYOukRT7hzOwN009sQIhEcmi+Tpxa3EMVzZnmSO/PQiJ52jnC1UPMwSUy jcxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531U02JhBI12pU8/0EcCj/Atlolgtcf6wB7NXuMBg3Q58bIuaml4 n++CBfsuXXl0fLix1gp3L9mg/ckqVe6EA1EtDU3VAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2oeqzlIKRAJGNjCGS7CKU977GeW6gKCMPKMdDL4SYsdc0smNKy6riUpn6QiOKNZssNx1uG7+3q6u6cgVvv70= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:428e:: with SMTP id m14mr7303394lfh.478.1622246432959; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:00:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162197056513.1767.16350161534776831688@ietfa.amsl.com> <01000179af378d51-c0a96433-9313-4b0d-bf3f-0a8f54be4852-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <01000179af378d51-c0a96433-9313-4b0d-bf3f-0a8f54be4852-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:00:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006001f905c36caee5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 00:00:43 -0000 --0000000000006001f905c36caee5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > [moving all alias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list] > > > Hi Andy, > > Thank you for your review! > > > > On May 25, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > > Review result: Ready > > > > Comments: > > > > I am not commenting on the TLS 1.0 and 1.3 onging discussions. > > The WG decision does not impact the YANG module review. > > > > 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities > > > > [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] > > > > These modules are intentionally abstract. > > There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. > > Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a > > specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). > > > > There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved > > by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create > > protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. > > > > There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the > > same everywhere, and the only difference will be the > > path from root to the objects in these groupings. > > In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be > > different. > > > > Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. > > Let=E2=80=99s discuss this in my response to the same comment in your rev= iew of > the ssh-client-server draft. > > > ok -- see other thread > > 2) mandatory choice of only optional-to-implement cases > > > > The choice /ietf-tls-client:client-identity/auth-type > > is mandatory but all cases have if-feature-stmts. > > Does draft mention 1 of the 4 features MUST be implemented? > > > > The same construct is present in the ietf-tls-server module as well...I= =E2=80=99ll > apply the agreed upon solution to both. Would the following update suffi= ce? > > OLD: > > choice auth-type { > mandatory true; > description > "A choice amongst authentication types.=E2=80=9D; > > NEW: > > choice auth-type { > mandatory true; > description > "A choice amongst authentication types, of which one must > be enabled (via its associated 'feature') and selected.=E2=80= =9D; > > > OK this resolves the issue > > K. > > > > > Andy --0000000000006001f905c36caee5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM Kent= Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrot= e:
[moving all a= lias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list]


Hi Andy,

Thank you for your review!


> On May 25, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wro= te:
>
> Reviewer: Andy Bierman
> Review result: Ready
>
> Comments:
>
> I am not commenting on the TLS 1.0 and 1.3 onging discussions.
> The WG decision does not impact the YANG module review.
>
> 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities
>
> [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts]
>
> These modules are intentionally abstract.
> There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all.
> Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a
> specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF).
>
> There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved
> by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to creat= e
> protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects.
>
> There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the
> same everywhere, and the only difference will be the
> path from root to the objects in these groupings.
> In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be
> different.
>
> Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues.

Let=E2=80=99s discuss this in my response to the same comment in your revie= w of the ssh-client-server draft.



ok -- see other thread

<= /div>
=C2=A0
> 2)=C2=A0 mandatory choice of only optional-to-implement cases
>
> The choice /ietf-tls-client:client-identity/auth-type
> is mandatory but all cases have if-feature-stmts.
> Does draft mention 1 of the 4 features MUST be implemented?



The same construct is present in the ietf-tls-server module as well...I=E2= =80=99ll apply the agreed upon solution to both.=C2=A0 Would the following = update suffice?

OLD:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 choice auth-type {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A choice amongst authentication ty= pes.=E2=80=9D;

NEW:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 choice auth-type {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A choice amongst authentication ty= pes, of which one must
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be enabled (via its associated = 9;feature') and selected.=E2=80=9D;



OK this resolves the issue
= =C2=A0

K.





Andy
=C2=A0
--0000000000006001f905c36caee5-- From nobody Fri May 28 17:04:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C5C3A3AE7 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:04:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xRPV5t40x_Kj for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95BC53A3AE4 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id i9so7646314lfe.13 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=H4GSeVzagxQU3B0aF5cnhysbHMRFu1rv74GF/iBjuPI=; b=lSkPUhKy+IrMADERX4yqkopoomfpYhnrOtztuz18ic6FRGaBj200CVkedal8s4RXVQ iZYT08QeYr2TJM7YLJoJFq4BhqphWmFz5yVjo8XP739G3kBjsNNtO0LQ9vlE+6pq+v3j YDmNJn9FdhFlwqaFkFwV8CbsVW+ampwSCXtSLsnOTGxEz9P54xYZdYCDjBietcrorcb1 AoxtI00lMEr2ra8xb/a5W8oazEC8eLvQNMmOxEPXArZh9ztB0tQWAj+suHk+Jh45Jwmj BkS/fX2jnKtcr3pgwlmsP1cRURrMIFqLVgWapIQ4T+0jwUXN9vMubfLLm5PeOucyQxsR YaYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=H4GSeVzagxQU3B0aF5cnhysbHMRFu1rv74GF/iBjuPI=; b=kxjLCFIKpbSVdNQjvnIrhi8d8TaQm8FzixvNRPK28gYk98/GjO43IQdWuWAKk/J8il /zMOu3EdGm7APdArDgmPONnggov9GqqSYXY9F4cSve7yRDKOB2eJ5e9J0a8ofh4UQ37T f+NRBdodBfvDc8+AcBuuUIIAhsZ0SHmV5EdFcypKA9R/Q45W8DMImBmzNG3SbwdEous0 sqPHkRH2i29NlzcxXHiEuuej5DGpXfE5jb5yjcvXxLNzYHGT9BQ0DYQpRJ60Z6MONzXW ynffgQMtUVXpSNhMpmo3lbxS6zFPFisGW2ekIpZUFGuMnUYoHC/DLqYSvDEQcUxFUfsk oQyg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531E6s70jPYAZqIEdcnEio0bl5vOcDGRgKzpwrKo7eDUrCGOHWW/ ILeT7XBjo8YGs9EP7kH1g19Hh+A3SRO+5I2QxvA0Xw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxBB9zXIiKF0YVwJw3L18mbvocHaQ0dnfuSM39DgoWpo6jow35NNSuQuxcO9/JTNyDrQ1Hc3d/ui8yVgE7qz5s= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:31d1:: with SMTP id j17mr7113013lfe.512.1622246678338; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:04:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162197056513.1767.16350161534776831688@ietfa.amsl.com> <01000179af378d51-c0a96433-9313-4b0d-bf3f-0a8f54be4852-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <01000179af378d51-c0a96433-9313-4b0d-bf3f-0a8f54be4852-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:04:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000035b705c36cbd5d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-24 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 00:04:47 -0000 --0000000000000035b705c36cbd5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > [moving all alias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list] > > > Hi Andy, > > Thank you for your review! > > > > On May 25, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > > Review result: Ready > > > > Comments: > > > > I am not commenting on the TLS 1.0 and 1.3 onging discussions. > > The WG decision does not impact the YANG module review. > > > > 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities > > > > [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts] > > > > These modules are intentionally abstract. > > There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all. > > Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a > > specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF). > > > > There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved > > by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to create > > protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects. > > > > There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the > > same everywhere, and the only difference will be the > > path from root to the objects in these groupings. > > In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be > > different. > > > > Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues. > > Let=E2=80=99s discuss this in my response to the same comment in your rev= iew of > the ssh-client-server draft. > > > > 2) mandatory choice of only optional-to-implement cases > > > > The choice /ietf-tls-client:client-identity/auth-type > > is mandatory but all cases have if-feature-stmts. > > Does draft mention 1 of the 4 features MUST be implemented? > > > > The same construct is present in the ietf-tls-server module as well...I= =E2=80=99ll > apply the agreed upon solution to both. Would the following update suffi= ce? > > OLD: > > choice auth-type { > mandatory true; > description > "A choice amongst authentication types.=E2=80=9D; > > NEW: > > choice auth-type { > mandatory true; > description > "A choice amongst authentication types, of which one must > be enabled (via its associated 'feature') and selected.=E2=80= =9D; > > > Related issue: What is a server supposed to do if it is implementing a module with a configuration that has a mandatory choice but no enabled or defined cases? A) add a deviation to remove the mandatory-stmt B) always return a data-missing error and block the edit or commit C) ignore the error and treat it as a NO-OP D) something else? > K. > Andy --0000000000000035b705c36cbd5d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM Kent= Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrot= e:
[moving all a= lias except =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D to the BCC list]


Hi Andy,

Thank you for your review!


> On May 25, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Andy Bierman via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wro= te:
>
> Reviewer: Andy Bierman
> Review result: Ready
>
> Comments:
>
> I am not commenting on the TLS 1.0 and 1.3 onging discussions.
> The WG decision does not impact the YANG module review.
>
> 1) Measuring Interoperability for groupings and identities
>
> [same comment for SSH and TLS drafts]
>
> These modules are intentionally abstract.
> There are no protocol-accessible objects defined at all.
> Interoperability is usually measured in the context of a
> specific protocol (e.g., NETCONF).
>
> There is an assumption that interoperability will be achieved
> by some other RFCs that will have "uses" statements to creat= e
> protocol-accessible or otherwise implementable objects.
>
> There is also an assumption that the groupings will be used the
> same everywhere, and the only difference will be the
> path from root to the objects in these groupings.
> In fact, the "refine" statement allows each usage to be
> different.
>
> Perhaps the drafts should mention these interoperability issues.

Let=E2=80=99s discuss this in my response to the same comment in your revie= w of the ssh-client-server draft.


> 2)=C2=A0 mandatory choice of only optional-to-implement cases
>
> The choice /ietf-tls-client:client-identity/auth-type
> is mandatory but all cases have if-feature-stmts.
> Does draft mention 1 of the 4 features MUST be implemented?



The same construct is present in the ietf-tls-server module as well...I=E2= =80=99ll apply the agreed upon solution to both.=C2=A0 Would the following = update suffice?

OLD:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 choice auth-type {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A choice amongst authentication ty= pes.=E2=80=9D;

NEW:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 choice auth-type {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A choice amongst authentication ty= pes, of which one must
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be enabled (via its associated = 9;feature') and selected.=E2=80=9D;




Related issue:

What is a server supposed to do if it is implementing a mo= dule with
a configuration that has a mandatory choice but no enab= led or defined cases?=C2=A0

A) add a deviation to = remove the mandatory-stmt
B) always return a data-missing error a= nd block the edit or=C2=A0commit
C) ignore the error and treat it= as a NO-OP
D) something else?


K.


Andy
=C2=A0=
--0000000000000035b705c36cbd5d-- From nobody Mon May 31 09:59:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1073A1EAF for ; Mon, 31 May 2021 09:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xKBUwAHcPOSw for ; Mon, 31 May 2021 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F9B43A1EAE for ; Mon, 31 May 2021 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id v5so15739950ljg.12 for ; Mon, 31 May 2021 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4E20jta/PnxXjBz2oBP8GbtShpkqbuQ+Cc2TTx9bK10=; b=nba1fUov0aMdDm9CIYgsEkGPVsftTO4HXyltJiu2zlnWS7ASaUmAxbxprn4EsrbJ9r lET4TaBAUKLXTC5NH2YBA3Skt+bpx7DizJz5Q2w6DKSTwGGtBVlKwsEHkV2YuEVkVDs1 iCbZZ12/ywGQTvWGR+ipIoe7KK8irVJ3v+CJCDm3MvI8scc4s3InbuhYgDU7PWMdMJ2i higYYKnn9B0Vem6p9T25TGMSM9qr5idyOIyNcKeU7DD4jsSnjvQTjDCtXbKm0TGXENpl p7wx/OsdpFnW5myv6md10kTH0TcdWV3qmL/dZkOL/cSUQvqrp6kImE9FFbploiNGsxjw b1zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4E20jta/PnxXjBz2oBP8GbtShpkqbuQ+Cc2TTx9bK10=; b=GpKEnGebs2ZYW7008+FIIZfp35IZlYOk1juYAxLpH1iL6zmMvedPhxrGiRYZSVnmpy D1w4jrn9TFUNxdZ5+3G0mVXSzGJ0YZm6/dJ/Ia6rW6KJmBgUG+1x9Kud63Mt0phivsME suHm6VFNQB/0dj2rYUrWxKHohxKFnooB4agOW9kmovLPcsSDYB9DttpiuX9a7fo7vj8F /KvqHdTZG/D9+rbVgDvdJZA11xFJrd5MqMtVO5f28hNTqamo7EikYpVVPvxD80enxo6P YhIYMkH1+4uLBkMjW9BjKTPSf5UhsxQIkd7F5V4xajHy7tr3FlgJSNzJzajcK6+SHv7M 5epg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532jiA7pHV6JAXWJf4CjI1zdhAWJwpHjBoRDIKLf0oU/7csEre8r dMN8j6yF2jqZnfmT6ohnyM0wMPL41TvOaEojjBAvIdR7piSovHos X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx25XpXmcK0WVzAZ3+r9koFhWf8gXgAlRmUG/5yL80meeja+kIz14rjxu0S033+ekJg9lHwxJyzSo1sQy2gcrg= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:89ce:: with SMTP id c14mr18001492ljk.91.1622480343362; Mon, 31 May 2021 09:59:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 09:58:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000085855405c3a32437" Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Should Partial Lock be deprecated? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:59:12 -0000 --00000000000085855405c3a32437 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I bet some do not remember we have this RFC https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5717 (So old there is a normative XSD and non-normative YANG module). I have not seen this RFC used in several years. Is anyone using it? Should it be deprecated? Just curious. Andy --00000000000085855405c3a32437 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I bet some do not remember we h= ave this RFC
(So o= ld there is a=C2=A0normative XSD and non-normative YANG module).
=
I have not seen this RFC used in several years.
Is= anyone using it?=C2=A0
Should it be deprecated?
Just c= urious.


Andy

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