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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 08:36:14 -0000 On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: > Hi, > > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. > > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server? > > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also > capable of acting as a legacy client)? IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda - e.g. . IMO client software using and should not need changes to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). /Vladimir > > Jernej > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Thu Jul 1 05:26:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FBE3A0414 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:26:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5YgUcUiPl0t3 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C003D3A0147 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id p24so8226898ljj.1 for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 05:26:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HyY3CFS+xb4tBvGk2t4r2UHS6JXB3lnf5DMXtb4PLnM=; b=ukTYN5Xd6lw51vSeX2ivvFuNQ6adH7WNIokiIfMn2q6cs7VMC0TGEamt4c/nKWZSF4 rU77tzifLgtRNIWW3qe72Zo//0D/lZGKNRPvCneGwMTJT8fpSimECsIgSYUdRO+JvwhW P3W4gHU5rdrUGCWdPN7lgiefScp3DrDpDJAuGGBPfrmuAZ5rFCeMGohO+PRfWCeb2qtg derqeczLwsAZTCTW+jLODWe/M4+slkU880KD8zWsUeSvmWMpCpzYNiqLrFGaca8t+yGW UpCG7v63iE/0EwykApSFEQRiS+x74n/m0BHgMbW7xdumIJlYBDR5SCyjCe/UB7Yh9pfS HxtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HyY3CFS+xb4tBvGk2t4r2UHS6JXB3lnf5DMXtb4PLnM=; b=tYRZP5pf1mMDTwyK0Hny/z0PKY9XP+ZHH16XXBzYWat+vyk0t+AoioNVsjwNopMRKm dmPaGicEQ0PJVeX9mpYjc4ooErAJIUIaE3SBw/5UGUjnzNOb61uAtld2JQV1DSTcjFLp Rd9Usorrl9FgRPN8AUh0bFsh43UJyW9/UKEccn3JkJiMAya7xeFjQAVayslSubhzR16E 75jPtOlPxJpRZ6mE+m9EOqVCBWfo42IcZ64QNWEYESU48seyibHdNkner1LEzbF40VH0 SVrwCxf3MagGEXFu0v3HXb3ysEdW/cYDYIDAaVrPwdi9VvdXx01ZEaxHcitYmkNLPyPr VHNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5301PHo8DdYIdZ1niihrltCYgWqKlvNDP8l6IpC5MSg3z+7/mn+p StoooM6A/r4WiZ5UyilveYxVf9h+dp2L/8KgKYJ3KQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwU4XPByq4RxYu9WmbLnk2IkkOQdHUcUTsMlAK5D2QvjYF3qvOFFbxFHW+3MFXvCd8c2fP/r7+XC59nxkFeaHI= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:6a0f:: with SMTP id f15mr12377114ljc.91.1625142368707; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 05:26:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:25:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: Vladimir Vassilev Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000098cfb305c60ef124" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 12:26:24 -0000 --00000000000098cfb305c60ef124 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev < vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote: > > On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. > > > > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or > > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended > > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server? > > > > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where > > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but > > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also > > capable of acting as a legacy client)? > > IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA > where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can > trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal > requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda > - e.g. . > Correct. If module A does not import or even mention module B, then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B if A is supported. It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA). > > IMO client software using and should not need changes > to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or > without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). > > This is not just an opinion. No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. The and operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed. > /Vladimir > > > Andy > > > > Jernej > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netconf mailing list > > netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --00000000000098cfb305c60ef124 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladim= ir Vassilev <vladi= mir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or=
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended <= br> > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF serv= er?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but =
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those server= s can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda - e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
=
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then i= t safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A= is supported.

It is trivial for the server to sup= port the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the= same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

It has nev= er been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is = out on NMDA).
=C2=A0

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not nee= d changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
Th= e <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as be= fore NMDA existed.

=C2=A0
/Vladimir




Andy

=C2=A0
>
> Jernej
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
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Mahesh Jethanandani , Qin Wu CC: Kent Watsen , Zmail , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms Thread-Index: Addh4dN4CKgMhQir0kaFHGEy5ICHTwKSdQAAAJLpKcA= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 13:41:39 +0000 Message-ID: <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.93] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 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score=-2.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mg-soft.si Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I-ssWpRJCbez for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA7203A100D for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (teleport2.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.254]) by galileo.mg-soft.si (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1A5C4DC9C1; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 16:32:38 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 galileo.mg-soft.si 6E1A5C4DC9C1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg-soft.si; s=default; t=1625149958; bh=GIQX0Eam1eeZovFfh1/PhU3L2EZsRuHpGyQmEZ3AKi8=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=aZTRW1864mSopR3PuHruXrJpYEyqmwSer/2/SD+SzavjgDDESTltSrWGfW5jAD77h +DVoLXPtRVeP18m+JmCSthgTrAp0lav5HiGqB8tN9J1fbP0r2xKKNUAtMy/dZFtgda NkZgWofu4h3szpsc+YoL6E3q4ra/7qC9H3vDjNxR99I02BIBpFTaOs3PGbtjtS7tcm kl5li/Sb32wZ0AGkiXbGPh+YKzcLUOnKsA0puh7qSAWujcU/42MC1js2wdapLtra1K qJrJLFCW8+HIwKXNd3Bl9fimurMJFlxJC6HE3C1gKEcYYMMfs7xNtXMGAMJF8ZXTY4 6rOpiKWGQh63Q== To: Andy Bierman , Vladimir Vassilev Cc: Netconf References: From: Jernej Tuljak Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 16:32:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BA8C6919BFF22C88851F0F3E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 14:32:46 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BA8C6919BFF22C88851F0F3E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev > > wrote: > > > On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. > > > > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, > prohibit or > > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 > intended > > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA > NETCONF server? > > > > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where > > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF > server, but > > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also > > capable of acting as a legacy client)? > > IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement > NMDA > where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers > can > trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal > requirement for such implementation to also implement > ietf-netconf-nmda > - e.g. . > > > Correct. > If module A does not import or even mention module B, > then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B > if A is supported. > > It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at > least 2 implementations > use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's message and content of a response to a client's request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case. We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly. Jernej > > It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is > why NMDA > is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury > is out on NMDA). > > > IMO client software using and should not need > changes > to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 > with or > without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). > > > This is not just an opinion. > No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. > The and operations work exactly the same as before > NMDA existed. > > /Vladimir > > > > > Andy > > > > > Jernej > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netconf mailing list > > netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --------------BA8C6919BFF22C88851F0F3E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended
> to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA
where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda
- e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A is supported.

It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's <hello> message and content of a response to a client's <get> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case.

We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly.

Jernej


It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA).
 

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not need changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or
without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
The <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed.

 
/Vladimir




Andy

 
>
> Jernej
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

--------------BA8C6919BFF22C88851F0F3E-- From nobody Thu Jul 1 07:59:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687203A111D for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wdd42j15VfgL for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com (mail-lf1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4D5A3A1119 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id a15so12349677lfr.6 for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:58:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gIAbMkvACdbVEJcBn5teLaoVhn8/uyz8ewdotoFitC8=; b=GNAoAuIfF+2P2NUE45J5agtOxuSBbiUuQOi+wqW+uowa5ADulm5HROt32qn/6afB4n 0RkFsX5pRzCfM2e5a7PphPeA3tl+SsrdugfwYDq1ChZ0ZIHu39zHeMpvs36VPheNTFZs zxy1swiG2MsEEhxUqMM/WrAsaraiFaLaGJ+eM2ufNSPbOxrAuvRHUsC/QNk8edy8ro/j W+g5J3kAVksP2JF49LBFI/NdpiH6CjWoWqyPM6Bn/OM8LfnZjeivkr24PQSQZFK+erOL FcdFqSheWjduHv+aFWt7xmkre8vKbCJa/4dA2hTSrvfTse2Q4OnHo1J4PoWW/ExFISMw lZnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gIAbMkvACdbVEJcBn5teLaoVhn8/uyz8ewdotoFitC8=; b=RCd6/K6z6ZFq4xydQ5+QEBdExlhjydJxQbO0XhBpQHkABViBap7SvV0MDryFbBJqG4 t56AkERZYp+eMHmroUinxO75wb8X4nARtwmbeiECSuceH3JbWNBZG02tZGTx8wBkcKYL 0pdxMt2YRXOZ/rtsalcu0QdVFc0hsI2fE/1Y57z2Hb4rNyOhq1NN0j7xuHP1jhrJcv7z YFcfwu+s+gLvtFEZXmnr6zt+sF0Ksp9BiA1k8Im3QmK2CSDDKzQPwQTK4HxTL5+/0iP1 XoTydUTJnTt/X+9I5ujeAeN9gtQmVGIDnRN+SGIZ5nuFwK4BvVan+luqkXMPLCVdaQzh 2poA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532oAfqM78AtsksTJCsywMJi9clrHIAERnlcMhwsrDSkMdMYVym6 +o6r/5b5GP5OMaGv6H5N32NvQDheJYcHgT2IL1PTEw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzKgXliqeFlRIZFTu1gsPBdON4c14y3qdMWIrILWm+G9QseLd73hJMloWSuPM82e0KXE2sXzOdQFEXsubYxyu0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:374b:: with SMTP id a11mr3044lfs.377.1625151529886; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:58:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 07:58:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jernej Tuljak Cc: Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a548b105c611135d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 14:59:13 -0000 --000000000000a548b105c611135d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak wrote: > On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev < > vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote: > >> >> On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. >> > >> > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or >> > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended >> > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF >> server? >> > >> > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where >> > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but >> > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also >> > capable of acting as a legacy client)? >> >> IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA >> where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can >> trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal >> requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda >> - e.g. . >> > > Correct. > If module A does not import or even mention module B, > then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B > if A is supported. > > It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least > 2 implementations > use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. > > > I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but > implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the > server's message and content of a response to a client's > request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case. > > I don't understand why there would be any confusion about processing of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang-library subtree would be special. We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make > much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty > clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it > can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated > greatly. > I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be populated, except for rules on how can be different from a conventional datastore. Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled. There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without the /yang-library copy. I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA server. A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway. Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set, because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session. > Jernej > Andy > > > It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why > NMDA > is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is > out on NMDA). > > >> >> IMO client software using and should not need changes >> to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or >> without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). >> >> > This is not just an opinion. > No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. > The and operations work exactly the same as before NMDA > existed. > > > >> /Vladimir >> >> >> > > Andy > > > >> > >> > Jernej >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > netconf mailing list >> > netconf@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing listnetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --000000000000a548b105c611135d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej= Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-so= ft.si> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside-instruments.com>= ; wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended
> to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA
where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". = Those servers can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda
- e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A is supported.

It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's <hello> message and content of a response to a client's <get> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case.



I don't u= nderstand why there would be any confusion about <get> processing
of config=3Dfalse data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang= -library subtree would be special.


We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly.

I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be = populated,
except for rules on how <operational> can be dif= ferent from a conventional datastore.

Our server d= oes not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled.
The= re are already enough copies of the module info in the server without the /= yang-library copy.
I agree there is no value in providing the 201= 9 version in a non-NMDA server.
A non-NMDA client will be looking= for the 2016 version anyway.

Even if NMDA is enab= led on our server, it only supports 1 module-set,
because our cli= ents do not support multiple schema trees per session.

=



Jernej


Andy
=C2=A0


It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA).
=C2=A0

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not need changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or
without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
The <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed.

=C2=A0
/Vladimir




Andy

=C2=A0
>
> Jernej
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netc= onf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net= conf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

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"draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr Thread-Index: Addu5AFNiNMInIAwQECG9i1E+R6tMQ== Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 02:01:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.123.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c318ff6892614640b89a0eb775e9bf42huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 02:01:27 -0000 --_000_c318ff6892614640b89a0eb775e9bf42huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIFJvYiBhbmQgQ2hhcmxlcywgS2VudDoNCkkgY2FuIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgd2Ugc2hvdWxkIGJl 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DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mg-soft.si Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jF00Mjk4nPWk for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 02:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1433A1706 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 02:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (teleport2.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.254]) by galileo.mg-soft.si (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA1BC4DC9C1; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 11:22:50 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 galileo.mg-soft.si 2FA1BC4DC9C1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg-soft.si; s=default; t=1625217770; bh=FHx6cfNUyobS20BPCImxWTkCVRuaDEmEjz7rBEDo0SU=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=jsRkhtJVp98npleHHhH/9EuWRklR0t2pU4HSICLacARpPjmx3bbUuVEa+RcA7Hlnj Y1OrKHy4tebMvW+CzBw4i7QFTQxCIb49BMuRaaKIguosVFmJzikY28OAVgCE46l+GK UvKpipb7wHK4CMJU63OHdKQUFBKfsuPmpYBARtiz6+bTi8wSkKt4ERMWF+zZ4PQSuH 8ZX190H1/2wTuWMBkhqAyChC50gSARcg0cvTe6KdQg8XqJywnCDGSJq8BgN4e+G6zT L3/K2EiZt3nb3z5DyrMhAD5TlKVyl3Pdwz10hrSVAKP7piuAXgzfK/lSiQd2JGtkSZ KqJ8nRZ0AWigw== To: Andy Bierman Cc: Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf References: From: Jernej Tuljak Message-ID: <12702921-2d78-84b2-8601-2ab225da0b52@mg-soft.si> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 11:22:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1787F22C0E2059D6D96BC9F8" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 09:22:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1787F22C0E2059D6D96BC9F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak > wrote: > > On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev >> > > wrote: >> >> >> On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. >> > >> > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, >> prohibit or >> > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 >> intended >> > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA >> NETCONF server? >> > >> > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation >> where >> > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF >> server, but >> > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client >> is also >> > capable of acting as a legacy client)? >> >> IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 >> implement NMDA >> where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those >> servers can >> trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any >> formal >> requirement for such implementation to also implement >> ietf-netconf-nmda >> - e.g. . >> >> >> Correct. >> If module A does not import or even mention module B, >> then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B >> if A is supported. >> >> It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and >> at least 2 implementations >> use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. > > I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support > NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete > example of the server's message and content of a response > to a client's request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library > data tree branch for this case. > > > > I don't understand why there would be any confusion about processing > of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the > /yang-library subtree would be special. I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query on that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see how the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it does not support NMDA. > > > We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of > them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 > seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema > compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context > so an example would be appreciated greatly. > > > I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to > be populated, > except for rules on how can be different from a > conventional datastore. Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is only expected/required to populate one entry and not instantiate and at all, since those are not supported? That is exactly why I asked for an example. > > Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled. To me, that is the only decision that makes sense. > There are already enough copies of the module info in the server > without the /yang-library copy. What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA? > I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA > server. That is my view as well. > A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway. You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA and legacy) and decide which to use during exchange and some additional queries immediately after? > > Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set, > because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session. All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA servers that implement YANG Library 1.1. Jernej > > > > > Jernej > > > > Andy > > >> >> It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that >> is why NMDA >> is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the >> jury is out on NMDA). >> >> >> IMO client software using and should not >> need changes >> to support device servers upgraded to support >> :yang-library:1.1 with or >> without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). >> >> >> This is not just an opinion. >> No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. >> The and operations work exactly the same as >> before NMDA existed. >> >> /Vladimir >> >> >> >> >> Andy >> >> > >> > Jernej >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > netconf mailing list >> > netconf@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing list >> netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --------------1787F22C0E2059D6D96BC9F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended
> to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA
where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda
- e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A is supported.

It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's <hello> message and content of a response to a client's <get> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case.



I don't understand why there would be any confusion about <get> processing
of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang-library subtree would be special.

I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query on that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see how the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it does not support NMDA.



We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly.

I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be populated,
except for rules on how <operational> can be different from a conventional datastore.

Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is only expected/required to populate one <module-set> entry and not instantiate <schema> and <datastore> at all, since those are not supported? That is exactly why I asked for an example.


Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled.

To me, that is the only decision that makes sense.

There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without the /yang-library copy.

What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA?

I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA server.

That is my view as well.

A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway.

You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA and legacy) and decide which to use during <hello> exchange and some additional queries immediately after?


Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set,
because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session.

All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA servers that implement YANG Library 1.1.

Jernej





Jernej


Andy
 


It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA).
 

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not need changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or
without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
The <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed.

 
/Vladimir




Andy

 
>
> Jernej
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


--------------1787F22C0E2059D6D96BC9F8-- From nobody Fri Jul 2 06:10:08 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a67571569-f34e8df5-f018-4f08-ba46-5bd919b6d127-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF3793A1E20; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 06:10:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N6Rh0FmpsdKz; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 06:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-95.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-95.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B71303A1E22; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 06:09:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625231398; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=hhtTiEcXHhEnUty7TKBCHuT3Gz1ffhpf4NHT53XPCeI=; b=DyUA2Y0SBtry71KzeLPEU405LwzpWVg3qbg5V1D33SoN2dahs//7knYT1uFeCaV/ kMcsYlS4BfeV1jh9jy7IDGhz4ruuienxHhEyWKsOF3aF3XvmCbF36Icyci9m6yddEtp u1ol3hhoIE+JbkTGJXxPWHgpjrNynZaYwBCy6Dkg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017a67571569-f34e8df5-f018-4f08-ba46-5bd919b6d127-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7BBBE38E-F73C-4140-80A6-FCF1C972416E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 13:09:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Qin Wu , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.02-54.240.48.95 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 13:10:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7BBBE38E-F73C-4140-80A6-FCF1C972416E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Qin, Charles, and Rob, thank you for your responses! Rob, special thanks for checking with Francesca. I did also notice = that moving to 300 produced a disconnect with regards to RESTCONF=E2=80=99= s =E2=80=9Cerrors" RPC-reply message. As you say, the draft currently = returns error-tag as ""missing-attribute=E2=80=9D, which aligns with 400 = Bad Request. =20 Looking at the "409 Conflict / data-missing=E2=80=9D combination, I = cannot say that it=E2=80=99s better. FWIW, my understanding is that = HTTP status codes ending with =E2=80=9C00=E2=80=9D (100, 200, 300, etc.) = are the generic catch-all value for the class of codes, which have up to = the next 99 values. Thusly, I believe 400 is a more generic value than = =E2=80=9C409=E2=80=9D, which suggests it=E2=80=99s the safest 4XX = choice. I fully agree there is no great choice here. Specifically, given that = the client sent a perfectly valid request, it seems wrong to say that = the request was =E2=80=9Cbad=E2=80=9D. This is why I was thinking to = define a custom code. I understand the push-back but, to Qin=E2=80=99s = point, why not? Surely within the world of HTTP there is a pattern of a = server prompting a client to provide more data. That said, this is not = something that I=E2=80=99m interested spending time on, unless Francesca = offers immediate support for the proposal... In sum, unless Francesca says otherwise, I think we should move back to = the original "400 Bad Request=E2=80=9D. =20 Kent // contributor > On Jul 1, 2021, at 10:01 PM, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > Hi, Rob and Charles, Kent: > I can understand we should be cautious to introduce new HTTP status = code, mapping between error code and HTTP status code seems a right = direction. > Such mapping helps refine HTTP status code semantics. Using 300 multi = choice response seems confusing, since we didn=E2=80=99t see location = head field is added. > I also think status codes such as 421 should be considered. > =20 > -Qin > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org = ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Charles Eckel = (eckelcu) > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 = 0:36 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org = ; netconf@ietf.org = > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netconf] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr > =20 > I agree that defining a new status code is likely not a good way to = go. > A 4xx response seems better to me than a 3xx response.=20 > =20 > Cheers, > Charles > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 1, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: > =20 > Hi Charles, Kent, > =20 > Thanks for the suggestion. The problem with that 401 requires the = server to return a WWW-Authenticate header field (as per section 15.5.2, = of draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-16 = ). > =20 > I=E2=80=99ve also asked Francesca (ART AD responsible for HTTP) if she = has a view. She has taken a quick look and suggested that defining a = new code is probably not the right way to go, but said that she would = take a proper look after today=E2=80=99s telechat, but if we want to get = other opinions then we could also ask on the httpbis mailing list. > =20 > However, I also noticed that RFC 8040 maps from NETCONF error-codes to = status-codes, and defines: > +-------------------------+------------------+ > | error-tag | status code | > +-------------------------+------------------+ > | missing-attribute | 400 (which is what you had originally). > =20 > An alternative could be: > | data-missing | 409 | > =20 > Which NETCONF defines as: > =20 > error-tag: data-missing > error-type: application > error-severity: error > error-info: none > Description: Request could not be completed because the relevant > data model content does not exist. For example, > a "delete" operation was attempted on > data that does not exist. > =20 > Which would go hand-in-hand with 409: > =20 > 15.5.10 = . 409 Conflict > =20 > The _409 (Conflict)_ status code indicates that the request could = not > be completed due to a conflict with the current state of the target > resource. This code is used in situations where the user might be > able to resolve the conflict and resubmit the request. The server > SHOULD generate content that includes enough information for a user > to recognize the source of the conflict. > =20 > Conflicts are most likely to occur in response to a PUT request. = For > example, if versioning were being used and the representation being > PUT included changes to a resource that conflict with those made by > an earlier (third-party) request, the origin server might use a 409 > response to indicate that it can't complete the request. In this > case, the response representation would likely contain information > useful for merging the differences based on the revision history. > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t see any great choice here. I now think that aligning = with RESTCONF seems to be right thing to do (so not using 300). Perhaps = choose =E2=80=9Cdata-missing=E2=80=9D & 409 if you think that is = slightly better, or otherwise go back to =E2=80=9Cmissing-attribute=E2=80=9D= & 400. > =20 > Regards, > Rob > =20 > =20 > From: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) >=20 > Sent: 01 July 2021 15:21 > To: Kent Watsen > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) >; draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org = ; netconf@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: [netconf] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr > =20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > I have not been following this draft closely but had a thought on this = thread that I thought might be helpful. > =20 > It seems to me a 401 would be more appropriate in this scenario.=20 > If the server does not require a CSR, it returns a 2xx response.=20 > If it does require one, it returns a 401 indicating which one it = requires. > =20 > Cheers, > Charles >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jun 29, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > =20 > s/Since been/I=E2=80=99ve been/ > =20 > K. > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jun 29, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > =20 > Hi Rob, > =20 > Since been spinning on the below thread since we had it and am = wondering if if would be best to ask for an HTTP expert review? Please = advise. > =20 > The reason being is that a close reading of "300 Multiple Choices" = suggests that it=E2=80=99s used by an HTTP-server to indicate when there = are multiple choices for a resource, whereas in this exchange, the = =E2=80=9Ccsr-support=E2=80=9D node in the client=E2=80=99s POST = effectively indicates that *it* has multiple choices for the server to = choose from=E2=80=A6 > =20 > I=E2=80=99m beginning to wonder to the document might need to define a = custom HTTP status code to properly indicate the semantics of the = response=E2=80=A6 > =20 > Kent // contributor > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > 2. Section 2.2: > Assuming the SZTP-server wishes to prompt the SZTP-client to provide > a CSR, then it would respond with an HTTP 400 (Bad Request) error > code: >=20 > I wonder whether returning a 400 "Bad Request" error is really the = best > return code, i.e., >=20 >=20 > it wasn't clear to me whether this requesting the capabiltiies is = really an > error. >=20 >=20 > Did you consider potentially using other return codes? Possibly: > 300 Multiple Choices, > 403 Fobidden, > 406 Not Acceptable >=20 > I did before look at all the 4xx codes. I was initially drawn to 412 > Precondition Failed, but noted that it is specific to HTTP request = header > fields. As for the others you mention, the semantics of 403 = Forbidden is that > the request should not be repeated, which isn=E2=80=99t out case, and = 406 Not > Acceptable regards the use of the HTTP =E2=80=9CAccept=E2=80=9D = headers, which aren't in > play here either. That said, 300 Multiple Choices does appear to be a = better > if not perfect option, so I made that change in my local copy. >=20 > Ack. > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = --Apple-Mail=_7BBBE38E-F73C-4140-80A6-FCF1C972416E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Qin, Charles, and Rob, thank you for your responses!

Rob, special thanks for checking = with Francesca.   I did also notice that moving to 300 = produced a disconnect with regards to RESTCONF=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cerrors" = RPC-reply message.  As you say, the draft currently returns = error-tag as ""missing-attribute=E2=80=9D, which aligns with 400 Bad = Request.  

Looking at the "409 Conflict / data-missing=E2=80=9D = combination, I cannot say that it=E2=80=99s better.  FWIW, my = understanding is that HTTP status codes ending with =E2=80=9C00=E2=80=9D = (100, 200, 300, etc.) are the generic catch-all value for the class of = codes, which have up to the next 99 values.   Thusly, I believe 400 = is a more generic value than =E2=80=9C409=E2=80=9D, which suggests = it=E2=80=99s the safest 4XX choice.

I = fully agree there is no great choice here.  Specifically, given = that the client sent a perfectly valid request, it seems wrong to say = that the request was =E2=80=9Cbad=E2=80=9D.   This is why I = was thinking to define a custom code.  I understand the push-back = but, to Qin=E2=80=99s point, why not?  Surely within the world of = HTTP there is a pattern of a server prompting a client to provide more = data.  That said, this is not something that I=E2=80=99m interested = spending time on, unless Francesca offers immediate = support for the proposal...

In sum, unless Francesca says otherwise, I think we should = move back to the original "400 Bad Request=E2=80=9D. =  

Kent // = contributor



On Jul 1, 2021, at 10:01 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

Hi, Rob and Charles, = Kent:
I can = understand we should be cautious to introduce new HTTP status code, = mapping between error code and HTTP status code seems a right = direction.
Such mapping = helps refine HTTP status code semantics. Using 300 multi choice response = seems confusing, since we didn=E2=80=99t see location head field is = added.
I also think = status codes such as 421 should be considered.
 
-Qin
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 0:36
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netconf] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr
 
I agree that defining a new = status code is likely not a good way to go.
A 4xx response seems better = to me than a 3xx response. 
 
Cheers,
Charles
 


On Jul 1, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> = wrote:
 
Hi Charles, = Kent,
 
Thanks for the suggestion.  The = problem with that 401 requires the server to return a WWW-Authenticate = header field (as per section 15.5.2, of draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-16).
 
I=E2=80=99ve also asked Francesca (ART = AD responsible for HTTP) if she has a view.  She has taken a quick = look and suggested that defining a new code is probably not the right = way to go, but said that she would take a proper look after today=E2=80=99= s telechat, but if we want to get other opinions then we could also ask = on the httpbis mailing list.
 
However, I also noticed that RFC 8040 maps from NETCONF = error-codes to status-codes, and defines:
+-------------------------+------------------+
| = error-tag           = ;    | status code      |
+-------------------------+------------------+
| = missing-attribute       | = 400    (which is what you had originally).
 
An alternative could be:
| = data-missing          &n= bsp; | = 409            = ;  |
 
Which NETCONF defines as:
 
   =
error-tag:      data-missing
   error-type:     =
application
   error-severity: =
error
   =
error-info:     none
   Description:    =
Request could not be completed because the relevant
          &nb=
sp;        data model content does =
not exist.  For example,
          &nb=
sp;        a "delete" operation was =
attempted on
          &nb=
sp;        data that does not =
exist.
 
Which would go hand-in-hand with = 409:
 
15.5.10.  409 =
Conflict
 
   The =
_409 (Conflict)_ status code indicates that the request could not
   be completed due to a conflict with =
the current state of the target
   =
resource.  This code is used in situations where the user might =
be
   able to resolve the =
conflict and resubmit the request.  The server
   SHOULD generate content that =
includes enough information for a user
   to recognize the source of the =
conflict.
 
   Conflicts are most likely to occur =
in response to a PUT request.  For
   example, if versioning were being =
used and the representation being
   PUT =
included changes to a resource that conflict with those made by
   an earlier (third-party) request, =
the origin server might use a 409
   =
response to indicate that it can't complete the request.  In =
this
   case, the response =
representation would likely contain information
   useful for merging the differences =
based on the revision history.
 
I = don=E2=80=99t see any great choice here.  I now think that aligning = with RESTCONF seems to be right thing to do (so not using 300).  = Perhaps choose =E2=80=9Cdata-missing=E2=80=9D & 409 if you think = that is slightly better, or otherwise go back to =E2=80=9Cmissing-attribut= e=E2=80=9D & 400.
 
Regards,
Rob
 
 
From: Charles Eckel = (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> 
Sent: 01 = July 2021 15:21
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr
 
Hi Kent,
 
I = have not been following this draft closely but had a thought on this = thread that I thought might be helpful.
 
It seems to me a 401 would be more appropriate = in this scenario. 
If the server does not require a CSR, it returns = a 2xx response. 
If it does require one, it returns a 401 = indicating which one it requires.
 
Cheers,
Charles



On Jun 29, 2021, at = 1:54 PM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
 
 s/Since been/I=E2=80=99ve been/
 
K.
 



On Jun 29, 2021, at = 4:49 PM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
 
Hi= Rob,
 
Since been spinning on the below thread since we = had it and am wondering if if would be best to ask for an HTTP expert = review?   Please advise.
 
The reason being is that a close reading of "300 = Multiple Choices" suggests that it=E2=80=99s used by an HTTP-server to = indicate when there are multiple choices for a resource, whereas in this = exchange, the =E2=80=9Ccsr-support=E2=80=9D node in the client=E2=80=99s = POST effectively indicates that *it* has multiple choices for the server = to choose from=E2=80=A6
 
I=E2=80=99m beginning to wonder to the document might need to = define a custom HTTP status code to properly indicate the semantics of = the response=E2=80=A6
 
Kent // contributor
 
 



2. Section 2.2:
 Assuming the SZTP-server wishes to prompt the = SZTP-client to provide
 a CSR, then it would respond = with an HTTP 400 (Bad Request) error
 code:

I wonder whether returning a 400 "Bad Request" = error is really the best
return code, = i.e.,


it wasn't clear to me = whether this requesting the capabiltiies is really an
error.


Did you consider potentially using other return codes? =  Possibly:
300 Multiple Choices,
403 = Fobidden,
406 Not Acceptable


I did before look at all the 4xx codes. =  I was initially drawn to 412
Precondition Failed, = but noted that it is specific to HTTP request header
fields.=   As for the others you mention, the semantics of 403 = Forbidden is that
the request should not be repeated, = which isn=E2=80=99t out case, and 406 Not
Acceptable = regards the use of the HTTP =E2=80=9CAccept=E2=80=9D headers, which = aren't in
play here either.  That said, 300 Multiple = Choices does appear to be a better
if not perfect option, = so I made that change in my local copy.

Ack.
 
<= div class=3D"">
 
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
<= /div>
 
_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
= --Apple-Mail=_7BBBE38E-F73C-4140-80A6-FCF1C972416E-- From nobody Fri Jul 2 15:03:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210143A08E2; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:02:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: netconf@ietf.org, rwilton@cisco.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <162526336911.26814.14103001237379033765@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:02:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] netconf - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 111 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 22:02:49 -0000 Dear Mahesh Jethanandani, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netconf Session 1 (1:00 requested) Wednesday, 28 July 2021, Session II 1430-1530 Room Name: Room 6 size: 506 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/sessions/netconf.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 45 Conflicts to Avoid: People who must be present: Kent Watsen Mahesh Jethanandani Robert Wilton Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Jul 3 08:57:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CED3A1A28 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:57:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22XugseVJRvh for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0EFD3A1A27 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id n14so24002297lfu.8 for ; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 08:57:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XteH8dPhYrTR7XKipNE5ivnfagraaivgYT1QQ7/y0Ow=; b=nnPQvT+OLkpYblLu0pAMCjoauMrMjkLBR1W2XydtM7k4XKpmXOk/XvbCLptSpHkeRH 1UJU5/lPsL6wJfAZR1Txn50a58qmF0zlgxWVesmajpF7ICNlogzy1JbYeoIZPZIC8oo5 EVoN7G0aLWIdgfKhhgo1rEHwuGQgQNMnJXY9YYgFg+7c6/rKO0h0NCTKw8ZBtBTv3Mg4 N9VfBbfGYdRLB76UTSn07TkjFakVgO92jN+pOkRsef4swxiEvl03BdmU+j0ImKS7W/SG 2QKhZF3gStDQgxAQ7bBEeeig/tbuRYV3b/k1BS0CHpXfDyZTo/AFu60qizzo6ey+49gU XqgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XteH8dPhYrTR7XKipNE5ivnfagraaivgYT1QQ7/y0Ow=; b=HRVcpmgPKh7edKNkZnNpbdPwIoI08Ebsi1vdRFiAODRfRPPtJfEQcmwkhSnJJ76DnQ 1akmxhBYGHBKa+oh6DD8PTBNEMxuX6JAc/MVBFa0xdeAoP5sDdX6COAv3voF4VXQyfzB zIEsfmnlT9hG2fRU/0BUyuLJvfNznH06/Hps2Vae5TvdmOjimaMnZOlIsyw+UpmScWAt 1dAaX93fVuHDXkn/ILEUbHBBjbUfz9uBiXaDOEbbjRx+ilV8+mv8YT/eQ7fuBWBuFcdd 6aXCOSPTAUGl63ICpqGoLbxCGtYyhuGkRSSE4r3clgR+466WCR0XQC43YXL5198rNssV qpJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Ivy+stphmr5nkbUlD2DCDe8Sct0VA3lDaNXsvxS6LzS0Fjy1o DXtDG4nvKkpczoreZ4FkPrSsHcJzMMMOfHQBPVhilA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzc0jWdyZqzuEebE+OdgIQ+7+d5HTKcsP/qn7LKzq/GLlblrw4HUVeXmNsPM3eSeoWp8SM0OoXHrtLhhJhIhzs= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c1d4:: with SMTP id r203mr3797042lff.512.1625327856056; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 08:57:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12702921-2d78-84b2-8601-2ab225da0b52@mg-soft.si> In-Reply-To: <12702921-2d78-84b2-8601-2ab225da0b52@mg-soft.si> From: Andy Bierman Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:57:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jernej Tuljak Cc: Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000810ed705c63a2140" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 15:57:45 -0000 --000000000000810ed705c63a2140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:22 AM Jernej Tuljak wrote: > On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak > wrote: > >> On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev < >> vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. >>> > >>> > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or >>> > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended >>> > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF >>> server? >>> > >>> > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where >>> > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but >>> > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also >>> > capable of acting as a legacy client)? >>> >>> IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA >>> where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can >>> trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal >>> requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda >>> - e.g. . >>> >> >> Correct. >> If module A does not import or even mention module B, >> then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B >> if A is supported. >> >> It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at >> least 2 implementations >> use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. >> >> >> I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA >> but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the >> server's message and content of a response to a client's >> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case. >> >> > > I don't understand why there would be any confusion about processing > of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang-library > subtree would be special. > > > I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query on that > branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see how > the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it does > not support NMDA. > This is academic since we do not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is enabled, because the redundant data is not helpful to the operator. I do not think RFC 8525 imposes NMDA requirements, so it should be possible to comply with this RFC but not RFC 8342. Example: - 1 module set - 1 schema containing the 1 module-set - 1 datastore entry for running I guess your issue is that should not be included, so any module that has config=false nodes cannot be properly represented. Or the server can implement for just config=false nodes, since it has no support for operational values of config=true data nodes. We allow YANG Push to be used without NMDA in this way, because YANG Push is popular/useful and NMDA is not. > > > We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make >> much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty >> clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it >> can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated >> greatly. >> > > I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be > populated, > except for rules on how can be different from a conventional > datastore. > > > Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is > only expected/required to populate one entry and not > instantiate and at all, since those are not supported? > That is exactly why I asked for an example. > No -- see above. > > > Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled. > > > To me, that is the only decision that makes sense. > > There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without > the /yang-library copy. > > > What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it > convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA? > Not sure why this is a problem. The server has no special datastore for operational values for configuration data nodes. Other than that, it is the same as NMDA. > > I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA > server. > > > That is my view as well. > > A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway. > > > You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA and > legacy) and decide which to use during exchange and some additional > queries immediately after? > The client can /modules-state or /yang-library. We cannot take away /modules-state from our server. Too much code out there depends on it. > > > Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set, > because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session. > > > All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But > like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA servers that implement > YANG Library 1.1. > > Jernej > > Andy > > > > >> Jernej >> > > > Andy > > >> >> >> It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why >> NMDA >> is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is >> out on NMDA). >> >> >>> >>> IMO client software using and should not need changes >>> to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or >>> without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). >>> >>> >> This is not just an opinion. >> No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. >> The and operations work exactly the same as before >> NMDA existed. >> >> >> >>> /Vladimir >>> >>> >>> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >>> > >>> > Jernej >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > netconf mailing list >>> > netconf@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing list >>> netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netconf mailing listnetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> > --000000000000810ed705c63a2140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:22 AM Jernej= Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-so= ft.si> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside= -instruments.com> wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended
> to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA
where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda
- e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A is supported.

It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's <hello> message and content of a response to a client's <get> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case.



I don't understand why there would be any confusion abou= t <get> processing
of config=3Dfalse data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang-library subtree would be special.

I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query on that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see how the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it does not support NMDA.

This is academic since we do not use the 2019 v= ersion unless NMDA is enabled,
because the redundant data is not = helpful to the=C2=A0operator.
I do not think RFC 8525 imposes NMD= A requirements, so it should be possible
to comply with this RFC = but not RFC 8342.

Example:
=C2=A0 - 1 mo= dule set=C2=A0
=C2=A0 - 1 schema containing the 1 module-set
=C2=A0 - 1 datastore entry for running

I gue= ss your issue is that <operational> should not be included, so any mo= dule
that has config=3Dfalse nodes cannot be properly represented= .=C2=A0 Or the server can
implement <operational> for just = config=3Dfalse nodes, since it has no support
for operational val= ues of config=3Dtrue data nodes.

We allow YANG Pus= h to be used without NMDA in this way,
because YANG Push is popul= ar/useful and NMDA is not.





We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly.

I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be populated,
except for rules on how <operational> can be different from a conventional datastore.

Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is only expected/required to populate one <module-set> entry and not instantiate <schema> and <datastore> at all, since those are not supported? That is exactly why I asked for an example.

No -- see above.
=C2=A0


Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled.

To me, that is the only decision that makes sense.

There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without the /yang-library copy.

What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA?


Not sure why this is a problem.=
The server has no special datastore for operational values for c= onfiguration data nodes.
Other than that, it is the same as NMDA.=


=C2=A0

I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA server.

That is my view as well.

A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway.

You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA and legacy) and decide which to use during <hello> exchange and some additional queries immediately after?


The client can <get> /modul= es-state or /yang-library.
We cannot take away /modules-state fro= m our server.
Too much code out there depends on it.
=C2=A0
=


Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set,
because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session.

All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA server= s that implement YANG Library 1.1.=C2=A0

Jernej



Andy
=C2=A0




Jernej


Andy
=C2=A0


It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA).
=C2=A0

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not need changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or
without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
The <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed.

=C2=A0
/Vla= dimir




Andy

=C2=A0
>=
> Jernej
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


--000000000000810ed705c63a2140-- From nobody Sat Jul 3 12:12:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177E03A20E1 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:12:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mg-soft.si Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E7-99Q-j2fdw for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galileo.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702053A20DE for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (teleport2.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.254]) by galileo.mg-soft.si (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67066C4DC9C1; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:12:31 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 galileo.mg-soft.si 67066C4DC9C1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg-soft.si; s=default; t=1625339551; bh=ww5lxagCmgmlgAulwvBPpM7+He+k4ZdzFbSXA54snTE=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=HD55c61yT/tVDmwKt6lnULQyy2fgyOQioNHXbZWEMiiQmmU+S4QMj/mEJafNQKGix Sb8nldGCwEgyZIojc6ZM+1DgoqKTbdD2IjEGdx+xz0mKHTCzzhpoaj5Qwxb1s8w1EU +LGsB2l4dOStkoUI0OD5ibzV2csEtNrSMOl/riTxlV3kKmwoRLVPj6kNNwTkRQhzrI 9LqX6LuUFj6OG2JDQQTazZalJeqCmw3RVMaRaWD/1Q7RAa2Zy76CuErcIko/yfRwpU 1KNsOOs1EBe83XyQkP02ND2nl2FbjYIM2JrpxXOFPWw79dVkLKCE4M5TBBumuglkR1 LsicbDOIwTexQ== To: Andy Bierman Cc: Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf References: <12702921-2d78-84b2-8601-2ab225da0b52@mg-soft.si> From: Jernej Tuljak Message-ID: <749468b4-1eb2-b2d1-1709-5dbf09bef2fa@mg-soft.si> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:12:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------605978A98C7F148F628C6D52" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 19:12:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------605978A98C7F148F628C6D52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 03/07/2021 17:57, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:22 AM Jernej Tuljak > wrote: > > On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak >> > wrote: >> >> On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the >>> subject. >>> > >>> > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise >>> against, prohibit or >>> > encourage such a thing, but is >>> ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended >>> > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a >>> non-NMDA NETCONF server? >>> > >>> > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a >>> situation where >>> > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the >>> NETCONF server, but >>> > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the >>> client is also >>> > capable of acting as a legacy client)? >>> >>> IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 >>> implement NMDA >>> where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". >>> Those servers can >>> trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of >>> any formal >>> requirement for such implementation to also implement >>> ietf-netconf-nmda >>> - e.g. . >>> >>> >>> Correct. >>> If module A does not import or even mention module B, >>> then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to >>> implement B >>> if A is supported. >>> >>> It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG >>> library, and at least 2 implementations >>> use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. >> >> I'm more interested in the case where the server does not >> support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see >> a concrete example of the server's message and >> content of a response to a client's request on >> /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case. >> >> >> >> I don't understand why there would be any confusion about >> processing >> of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the >> /yang-library subtree would be special. > > I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query > on that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also > like to see how the server properly announces its support for YANG > Library 1.1, if it does not support NMDA. > > > > This is academic since we do not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is > enabled, > because the redundant data is not helpful to the operator. > I do not think RFC 8525 imposes NMDA requirements, so it should be > possible > to comply with this RFC but not RFC 8342. > > Example: >   - 1 module set >   - 1 schema containing the 1 module-set >   - 1 datastore entry for running > > I guess your issue is that should not be included, so > any module > that has config=false nodes cannot be properly represented.  Or the > server can > implement for just config=false nodes, since it has no > support > for operational values of config=true data nodes. No, my issue here is, that there are too many ways one can choose to populate this part of YANG Library 1.1, if the server does not support NMDA, because nothing exists to guide implementations on how to do properly. Therefore the client side is forced to rely on what is practically guesswork to try to understand something as basic as model compliance announcements from the server side. Even the (purely academic) solution you suggest, 1 datastore, 1 schema and 1 module-set, is a gray area from my perspective. Why did you choose only ds:running, for example? Why not list ds:running, ds:candidate, ds:startup and ds:operational? Why not only ds:operational? Why list any at all - they are optional as per model? The real issue for me regarding these is that they are defined in ietf-datastores, published only as part of RFC8342, titled "NMDA", which the server does not implement. My interpretation of the available documents is that those names may only represent one thing - NMDA datastores. To try to stretch their definitions to also cover legacy datastores + operational state of a device leads to something that is ambiguous at best. Even just advertising urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.1?revision=2019-01-04&content-id=123 in seems problematic. That capability is a NETCONF extension to support NMDA, defined only in RFC8526, which the server does not implement. You used the A and B module analogy in a previous message. Does such an analogy not apply also to the RFCs where the modules were published? We have seen implementations in the wild do random things in order try to support YANG Library 1.1 in a non-NMDA context. And it has caused interoperability problems for us. That is why I'm asking the question in this thread. Jernej > > We allow YANG Push to be used without NMDA in this way, > because YANG Push is popular/useful and NMDA is not. > > > >> >> >> We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none >> of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library >> 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore >> schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a >> different context so an example would be appreciated greatly. >> >> >> I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list >> entry to be populated, >> except for rules on how can be different from a >> conventional datastore. > > Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library > 1.1 is only expected/required to populate one entry > and not instantiate and at all, since those > are not supported? That is exactly why I asked for an example. > > > No -- see above. > > >> >> Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually >> enabled. > > To me, that is the only decision that makes sense. > >> There are already enough copies of the module info in the server >> without the /yang-library copy. > > What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does > it convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA? > > > > Not sure why this is a problem. > The server has no special datastore for operational values for > configuration data nodes. > Other than that, it is the same as NMDA. > > > >> I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a >> non-NMDA server. > > That is my view as well. > >> A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway. > > You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both > (NMDA and legacy) and decide which to use during exchange > and some additional queries immediately after? > > > > The client can /modules-state or /yang-library. > We cannot take away /modules-state from our server. > Too much code out there depends on it. > > >> >> Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set, >> because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session. > > All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So > far. But like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA > servers that implement YANG Library 1.1. > > > Jernej > > > > Andy > >> >> >> >> >> Jernej >> >> >> >> Andy >> >> >>> >>> It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and >>> that is why NMDA >>> is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks >>> the jury is out on NMDA). >>> >>> >>> IMO client software using and should >>> not need changes >>> to support device servers upgraded to support >>> :yang-library:1.1 with or >>> without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( >>> etc.). >>> >>> >>> This is not just an opinion. >>> No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. >>> The and operations work exactly the same >>> as before NMDA existed. >>> >>> /Vladimir >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> > >>> > Jernej >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > netconf mailing list >>> > netconf@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing list >>> netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing list >>> netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > --------------605978A98C7F148F628C6D52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 03/07/2021 17:57, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:22 AM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended
> to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA
where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda
- e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A is supported.

It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's <hello> message and content of a response to a client's <get> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case.



I don't understand why there would be any confusion about <get> processing
of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang-library subtree would be special.

I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query on that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see how the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it does not support NMDA.


This is academic since we do not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is enabled,
because the redundant data is not helpful to the operator.
I do not think RFC 8525 imposes NMDA requirements, so it should be possible
to comply with this RFC but not RFC 8342.

Example:
  - 1 module set 
  - 1 schema containing the 1 module-set
  - 1 datastore entry for running

I guess your issue is that <operational> should not be included, so any module
that has config=false nodes cannot be properly represented.  Or the server can
implement <operational> for just config=false nodes, since it has no support
for operational values of config=true data nodes.

No, my issue here is, that there are too many ways one can choose to populate this part of YANG Library 1.1, if the server does not support NMDA, because nothing exists to guide implementations on how to do properly. Therefore the client side is forced to rely on what is practically guesswork to try to understand something as basic as model compliance announcements from the server side.

Even the (purely academic) solution you suggest, 1 datastore, 1 schema and 1 module-set, is a gray area from my perspective. Why did you choose only ds:running, for example? Why not list ds:running, ds:candidate, ds:startup and ds:operational? Why not only ds:operational? Why list any at all - they are optional as per model?

The real issue for me regarding these is that they are defined in ietf-datastores, published only as part of RFC8342, titled "NMDA", which the server does not implement. My interpretation of the available documents is that those names may only represent one thing - NMDA datastores. To try to stretch their definitions to also cover legacy datastores + operational state of a device leads to something that is ambiguous at best.

Even just advertising urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.1?revision=2019-01-04&content-id=123 in <hello> seems problematic. That capability is a NETCONF extension to support NMDA, defined only in RFC8526, which the server does not implement. You used the A and B module analogy in a previous message. Does such an analogy not apply also to the RFCs where the modules were published?

We have seen implementations in the wild do random things in order try to support YANG Library 1.1 in a non-NMDA context. And it has caused interoperability problems for us. That is why I'm asking the question in this thread.

Jernej


We allow YANG Push to be used without NMDA in this way,
because YANG Push is popular/useful and NMDA is not.





We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly.

I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be populated,
except for rules on how <operational> can be different from a conventional datastore.

Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is only expected/required to populate one <module-set> entry and not instantiate <schema> and <datastore> at all, since those are not supported? That is exactly why I asked for an example.

No -- see above.
 


Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled.

To me, that is the only decision that makes sense.

There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without the /yang-library copy.

What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA?


Not sure why this is a problem.
The server has no special datastore for operational values for configuration data nodes.
Other than that, it is the same as NMDA.


 

I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA server.

That is my view as well.

A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway.

You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA and legacy) and decide which to use during <hello> exchange and some additional queries immediately after?


The client can <get> /modules-state or /yang-library.
We cannot take away /modules-state from our server.
Too much code out there depends on it.

 


Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set,
because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session.

All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA servers that implement YANG Library 1.1. 

Jernej



Andy
 




Jernej


Andy
 


It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA).
 

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not need changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or
without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
The <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed.

 
/Vladimir




Andy

 
>
> Jernej
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
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--------------605978A98C7F148F628C6D52-- From nobody Sat Jul 3 12:33:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1663A2191 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zC4g5KSni3Ww for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C9123A2190 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id h6so18467902ljl.8 for ; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 12:33:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lvlYz4a76mSKuuUvqBSPdE04y6627cwHaJhAKDAH65g=; b=AaY+vOsKTHon1E/keuDEuaA9BBM4OmHHOB6ertIyp2hBm6lu0U0rJcb27eQVFX9TKd lsCl2DInWR+MgZpeBx4vtNzWxBJxdkajtFUfk+G0ejjRCh793YBrGu7CAoozcl++rrBz 6UmlDim0mQKC8f6CHjkQk2+DXMDdQN34gj71/jwh/GOtDEjJgsXDA//q29SabVQk5cq0 lB8RLv/FR4pzw68FNw/og9jaMud7JXos3oSSsMQtRfJ0xQeTEZHS2t8XFwExdwQJ4MXH 5SsoYKIMZAH6x2vemBgv8ke34pvyE+XNCytJKf0RSwh/ibtslufSGqLjnD/+Su3TS8LM H2ng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lvlYz4a76mSKuuUvqBSPdE04y6627cwHaJhAKDAH65g=; b=nmBy6EoslV1nkKNLGZiTxHls0R55vMOevSXA29iugsWuIJJvuyGm7fFe/AE3Pgbf3G otUWSHUu5D8L7c5Od/RlNkWYwNvblaVcCiAcg8409TNeRPAr+W93YX+tH8+RPYQxBRvN pNib82bMwPDBwbiG+AnsavrTZ+6P38JYWnkOZ4wiTgfypUYAMej9UfG6FbjNptjDt7Iv FxbQ9dm70vb1daJkjPgU4WbUm4+NUXBxQ3XD8vj6Em2aAZ2kpLyO1tjUpg8+PtSe6fSE V2ygB0srK38bFYur+PJ1XOht8c7EXJwsXQEv4r2knQtL4vpxnIdSMde87M/ULFAemhFt h0pg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532mUc5QA5lTKJONWY2CmIjA9OzMTK/+NoC7MXmGzzwJUuS2nIna 9/ZepySjW/HWY7w1sI1DPhxLWi/cpExW2IRiqyDxfg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx4E3s8F8/RJIJDyMEHPZgUEcE3NFp0mP7/7HvUNgacyIS2TlHLxvJ8BCL0WTOgbBsStT3bCjzHsT/9oFHPMwI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:544:: with SMTP id q4mr4438853ljp.105.1625340823350; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12702921-2d78-84b2-8601-2ab225da0b52@mg-soft.si> <749468b4-1eb2-b2d1-1709-5dbf09bef2fa@mg-soft.si> In-Reply-To: <749468b4-1eb2-b2d1-1709-5dbf09bef2fa@mg-soft.si> From: Andy Bierman Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:33:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jernej Tuljak Cc: Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006a465b05c63d2647" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Should a NETCONF server implement YANG Library 1.1 if it does not support NETCONF NMDA? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 19:33:54 -0000 --0000000000006a465b05c63d2647 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, We already agreed that implementation of the NMDA version by a non-NMDA server is not useful, so no reason to discuss it further. The general topic on the impact of complexity on deployment of standards is probably out of scope here. Let's just say that the pre-defined partitioning of functionality (e.g. YANG features) is just a suggestion to vendors. Andy On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 12:12 PM Jernej Tuljak wrote: > On 03/07/2021 17:57, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:22 AM Jernej Tuljak > wrote: > >> On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak >> wrote: >> >>> On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev < >>> vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject. >>>> > >>>> > I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit >>>> or >>>> > encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended >>>> > to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF >>>> server? >>>> > >>>> > How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where >>>> > :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but >>>> > ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also >>>> > capable of acting as a legacy client)? >>>> >>>> IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA >>>> where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can >>>> trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal >>>> requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda >>>> - e.g. . >>>> >>> >>> Correct. >>> If module A does not import or even mention module B, >>> then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B >>> if A is supported. >>> >>> It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at >>> least 2 implementations >>> use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled. >>> >>> >>> I'm more interested in the case where the server does not support NMDA >>> but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the >>> server's message and content of a response to a client's >>> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case. >>> >>> >> >> I don't understand why there would be any confusion about processing >> of config=false data nodes, or why such data nodes under the >> /yang-library subtree would be special. >> >> >> I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response to a query on >> that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see >> how the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it >> does not support NMDA. >> > > > This is academic since we do not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is > enabled, > because the redundant data is not helpful to the operator. > I do not think RFC 8525 imposes NMDA requirements, so it should be possible > to comply with this RFC but not RFC 8342. > > Example: > - 1 module set > - 1 schema containing the 1 module-set > - 1 datastore entry for running > > I guess your issue is that should not be included, so any > module > that has config=false nodes cannot be properly represented. Or the server > can > implement for just config=false nodes, since it has no > support > for operational values of config=true data nodes. > > > No, my issue here is, that there are too many ways one can choose to > populate this part of YANG Library 1.1, if the server does not support > NMDA, because nothing exists to guide implementations on how to do > properly. Therefore the client side is forced to rely on what is > practically guesswork to try to understand something as basic as model > compliance announcements from the server side. > > Even the (purely academic) solution you suggest, 1 datastore, 1 schema and > 1 module-set, is a gray area from my perspective. Why did you choose only > ds:running, for example? Why not list ds:running, ds:candidate, ds:startup > and ds:operational? Why not only ds:operational? Why list any at all - they > are optional as per model? > > The real issue for me regarding these is that they are defined in > ietf-datastores, published only as part of RFC8342, titled "NMDA", which > the server does not implement. My interpretation of the available documents > is that those names may only represent one thing - NMDA datastores. To try > to stretch their definitions to also cover legacy datastores + operational > state of a device leads to something that is ambiguous at best. > > Even just advertising > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.1?revision=2019-01-04&content-id=123 > in seems problematic. That capability is a NETCONF extension to > support NMDA, defined only in RFC8526, which the server does not implement. > You used the A and B module analogy in a previous message. Does such an > analogy not apply also to the RFCs where the modules were published? > > We have seen implementations in the wild do random things in order try to > support YANG Library 1.1 in a non-NMDA context. And it has caused > interoperability problems for us. That is why I'm asking the question in > this thread. > > Jernej > > > We allow YANG Push to be used without NMDA in this way, > because YANG Push is popular/useful and NMDA is not. > > > >> >> >> We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make >>> much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty >>> clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it >>> can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated >>> greatly. >>> >> >> I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be >> populated, >> except for rules on how can be different from a >> conventional datastore. >> >> >> Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is >> only expected/required to populate one entry and not >> instantiate and at all, since those are not supported? >> That is exactly why I asked for an example. >> > > No -- see above. > > >> >> >> Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled. >> >> >> To me, that is the only decision that makes sense. >> >> There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without >> the /yang-library copy. >> >> >> What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it >> convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA? >> > > > Not sure why this is a problem. > The server has no special datastore for operational values for > configuration data nodes. > Other than that, it is the same as NMDA. > > > > >> >> I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA >> server. >> >> >> That is my view as well. >> >> A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway. >> >> >> You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA >> and legacy) and decide which to use during exchange and some >> additional queries immediately after? >> > > > The client can /modules-state or /yang-library. > We cannot take away /modules-state from our server. > Too much code out there depends on it. > > > >> >> >> Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set, >> because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session. >> >> >> All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But >> like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA servers that implement >> YANG Library 1.1. >> > >> Jernej >> >> > > Andy > > >> >> >> >> >>> Jernej >>> >> >> >> Andy >> >> >>> >>> >>> It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why >>> NMDA >>> is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is >>> out on NMDA). >>> >>> >>>> >>>> IMO client software using and should not need >>>> changes >>>> to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or >>>> without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda ( etc.). >>>> >>>> >>> This is not just an opinion. >>> No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented. >>> The and operations work exactly the same as before >>> NMDA existed. >>> >>> >>> >>>> /Vladimir >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> >>>> > >>>> > Jernej >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > netconf mailing list >>>> > netconf@ietf.org >>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netconf mailing list >>>> netconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netconf mailing listnetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >>> >> > --0000000000006a465b05c63d2647 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

We already agreed that implementati= on of the NMDA version
by a non-NMDA server is not useful, so no = reason to discuss it further.

The general topic on= the impact of complexity=C2=A0on deployment of
standards is prob= ably out of scope here. Let's just say that
the pre-defined p= artitioning of functionality (e.g. YANG features)
is just a sugge= stion to vendors.


Andy


On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 12:12 PM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
<= /div>
=20 =20 =20
On 03/07/2021 17:57, Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:22 AM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
On 01/07/2021 16:58, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:32 AM Jernej Tuljak <jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si> wrote:
On 01/07/2021 14:25, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 1:36 AM Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside-instruments.com> wrote:

On 30/06/2021 10.33, Jernej Tuljak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a relatively simple question, stated in the subject.
>
> I cannot find any concrete text that would advise against, prohibit or
> encourage such a thing, but is ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04 intended
> to be used in such a way; to be implemented in a non-NMDA NETCONF server?
>
> How should a NMDA enabled NETCONF client handle a situation where
> :yang-library:1.1 capability is advertised by the NETCONF server, but
> ietf-netconf-nmda module is not (assuming that the client is also
> capable of acting as a legacy client)?

IMO all NETCONF servers that implement :yang-library:1.0 implement NMDA
where "all datastores have exactly the same schema". Those servers can
trivially implement :yang-library:1.1. I am not aware of any formal
requirement for such implementation to also implement ietf-netconf-nmda
- e.g. <get-data>.

Correct.
If module A does not import or even mention module B,
then it safe to assume that there is no requirement to implement B
if A is supported.

It is trivial for the server to support the new YANG library, and at least 2 implementations
use the same approach even if NMDA is enabled.

I'm more interested in the case where the serve= r does not support NMDA but implements YANG Library 1.1. I'd like to see a concrete example of the server's <hello> message and content of a response to a client's <get> request on /ietf-yang-library:yang-library data tree branch for this case.



I don't understand why there would be any confusion about <get> processing
of config=3Dfalse data nodes, or why such data nodes under the /yang-library subtree would be special.

I'd like to see what you consider to be a sane response t= o a query on that branch, if the server does not support NMDA. I would also like to see how the server properly announces its support for YANG Library 1.1, if it does not support NMDA.


This is academic since we do not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is enabled,
because the redundant data is not helpful to the=C2=A0operator.
I do not think RFC 8525 imposes NMDA requirements, so it should be possible
to comply with this RFC but not RFC 8342.

Example:
=C2=A0 - 1 module set=C2=A0
=C2=A0 - 1 schema containing the 1 module-set
=C2=A0 - 1 datastore entry for running

I guess your issue is that <operational> should not be included, so any module
that has config=3Dfalse nodes cannot be properly represented.=C2=A0 Or the server can
implement <operational> for just config=3Dfalse nodes, since it has no support
for operational values of config=3Dtrue data nodes.

No, my issue here is, that there are too many ways one can choose to populate this part of YANG Library 1.1, if the server does not support NMDA, because nothing exists to guide implementations on how to do properly. Therefore the client side is forced to rely on what is practically guesswork to try to understand something as basic as model compliance announcements from the server side.

Even the (purely academic) solution you suggest, 1 datastore, 1 schema and 1 module-set, is a gray area from my perspective. Why did you choose only ds:running, for example? Why not list ds:running, ds:candidate, ds:startup and ds:operational? Why not only ds:operational? Why list any at all - they are optional as per model?

The real issue for me regarding these is that they are defined in ietf-datastores, published only as part of RFC8342, titled "NMDA&q= uot;, which the server does not implement. My interpretation of the available documents is that those names may only represent one thing - NMDA datastores. To try to stretch their definitions to also cover legacy datastores + operational state of a device leads to something that is ambiguous at best.

Even just advertising urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.1?revision=3D2019-01-04&a= mp;content-id=3D123 in <hello> seems problematic. That capability is a NETCONF extension to support NMDA, defined only in RFC8526, which the server does not implement. You used the A and B module analogy in a previous message. Does such an analogy not apply also to the RFCs where the modules were published?

We have seen implementations in the wild do random things in order try to support YANG Library 1.1 in a non-NMDA context. And it has caused interoperability problems for us. That is why I'm asking the question in this thread.

Jernej


We allow YANG Push to be used without NMDA in this way,
because YANG Push is popular/useful and NMDA is not.





We have seen different approaches used in the wild and none of them make much sense to us. The intention of YANG Library 1.1 seems to be pretty clear - to announce NMDA datastore schema compliance. I do not see how it can be used in a different context so an example would be appreciated greatly.

I do not see any text requiring more than one module-set list entry to be populated,
except for rules on how <operational> can be different from a conventional datastore.

Are you saying that a non-NMDA server implementing YANG Library 1.1 is only expected/required to populate one <module-set> entry and not instantiate <schema> and <datastore> at all, since those are not supported? That is exactly why I asked for an example.

No -- see above.
=C2=A0


Our server does not use the 2019 version unless NMDA is actually enabled.

To me, that is the only decision that makes sense.

There are already enough copies of the module info in the server without the /yang-library copy.

What is the latter copy supposed to contain and what meaning does it convey to the client if the server does not support NMDA?


Not sure why this is a problem.
The server has no special datastore for operational values for configuration data nodes.
Other than that, it is the same as NMDA.


=C2=A0

I agree there is no value in providing the 2019 version in a non-NMDA server.

That is my view as well.

A non-NMDA client will be looking for the 2016 version anyway.

You seem to be implying that the client side cannot support both (NMDA and legacy) and decide which to use during <hello> exchange and some additional queries immediately after?


The client can <get> /modules-state or /yang-library.
We cannot take away /modules-state from our server.
Too much code out there depends on it.

=C2=A0


Even if NMDA is enabled on our server, it only supports 1 module-set,
because our clients do not support multiple schema trees per session.

All server implementations we have encountered are like that. So far. But like I said before, I'm more interested in non-NMDA servers that implement YANG Library 1.1.=C2=A0

Jernej



Andy
=C2=A0




Jernej


Andy
=C2=A0


It has never been trivial for a client to support NMDA, and that is why NMDA
is not being adopted (but the server-centric WG still thinks the jury is out on NMDA).
=C2=A0

IMO client software using <get> and <get-config> should not need changes
to support device servers upgraded to support :yang-library:1.1 with or
without implementation of ietf-netconf-nmda (<get-data> etc.).


This is not just an opinion.
No words in RFC 6241 are altered because NMDA is implemented.
The <get> and <get-config> operations work exactly the same as before NMDA existed.

=C2=A0
/Vladimir




Andy

=C2=A0
>
> Jernej
>
> ___________________________________________= ____
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/netconf

____________________________________________=
___
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf



--0000000000006a465b05c63d2647-- From nobody Mon Jul 5 03:48:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12863A1252; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 03:48:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162548208976.18978.1966083173595004955@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 03:48:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 10:48:10 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Modules describing Capabilities for Systems and Datastore Update Notifications Authors : Balazs Lengyel Alexander Clemm Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2021-07-05 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules,"ietf-system-capabilities" and "ietf-notification-capabilities". The module "ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder structure that can be used to discover YANG related system capabilities for servers. The module can be used to report capability information from the server at run-time or implementation- time, by making use of the YANG Instance Data File Format. The module "ietf-notification-capabilities" augments "ietf-system- capabilities" to specify capabilities related to Subscription to YANG Notifications for Datastore Updates. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 5 13:48:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6359F3A1847; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 13:48:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.233 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.233 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id owyXccAKdqGz; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 13:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DFBD3A1845; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 13:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4GJcqB569xz6H6hj; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 04:34:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.47.29.143] (10.47.29.143) by fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2176.2; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 22:48:13 +0200 From: Benoit Claise To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" CC: References: Message-ID: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 22:47:55 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------59D143793CE352E461DD6345" Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [10.47.29.143] X-ClientProxiedBy: dggems702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.179) To fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 20:48:30 -0000 --------------59D143793CE352E461DD6345 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I realized that the NETMOD WG was copied on this email thread, instead of NETFCONF. Now corrected, for archiving purposes. Regards, Benoit On 7/5/2021 12:53 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Thanks for your detailed review. > A new draft version has been posted. > URL:https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17.txt > Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities/ > Htmlized:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities > Diff:https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17 > > See the justifications below. > > On 6/21/2021 10:45 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Here is my AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiltiies-16 >> >> Thanks for this draft, sorry for the delay in reviewing. It looks like it is in good shape. >> >> I think that most of my comments are minor or cosmetic suggestions to potentially improve the phrasing of the text. >> >> >> 1. >> Abstract: >> >> The module "ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder >> structure that can be used to discover YANG related system >> capabilities for servers. The module can be used to report >> capability information from the server at run-time or implementation- >> time, per the YANG Instance Data File Format. >> >> Suggest "by making use of" rather than "per". > DONE. >> 2. >> 1. Introduction >> >> There is a need to publish this capability information as it is part >> of the contract between the server and client. >> >> Suggest "contract" -> "API contract". > DONE >> 3. >> There is a need to publish this capability information as it is part >> of the contract between the server and client. Examples include >> maximum size of data that can be stored or transferred, information >> about counters (whether a node supports "on-change" telemetry), etc. >> Such capabilities are often dependent on a vendor's implementation or >> the available resources at deployment. Many such capabilities are >> specific to either the complete system, individual YANG datastores >> [RFC8342] or specific parts of the YANG schema, or even individual >> data nodes. It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of >> representing such capabilities in a format that is: >> >> Suggest: maximum -> the maximum >> "or specific" -> ", specific" > DONE >> 4. >> o available in identical format both at implementation-time and run- >> time >> >> Suggest: "in an identical", and a period at the end. > DONE >> 5. >> If the information is >> not documented in a way available to the NMS designer, but only as >> instance data from the network node once it is deployed, the NMS >> implementation will be delayed >> >> Suggest: "way available" => "way that is readily available" > DONE >> 6. >> The network operator needs to plan his >> management practices and NMS implementation before he even decides to >> buy the specific network node type. >> >> Suggest: "him" -> "their", "he even decides" -> "they decide" > DONE >> 7. >> Run-time information is needed: >> >> Suggest: Run-time capability information is needed: > DONE. >> 8. >> o to check that capability information provided earlier, at >> implementation-time is what the publisher has implemented. >> >> Suggest: "at implementation-time, is" > DONE >> 9. >> To find a capability value for a specific data node in a >> specific datastore the user SHALL: >> >> Please clarify that the capability value is selected by the relative path >> to the datanode defining the capability. i.e., the same name/path must be >> used both under the system level and per datastore level capabilties. > NEW SENTENCE. > "When stating a specific capability, the relative path for any specific > capability must be the same under the system-capabilities container and > under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for defining the > capabilities MUST be used. " >> 10. >> 2) If the datastore entry is found within that entry, process all >> per-node-capabilities entries in the order they appear in the list. >> The first entry that specifies the specific capability and has a >> node-selector selecting the specific data node defines the >> capability value. >> >> I'm not sure this is required, but perhaps consider adding text to make it clear >> that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific >> matches before less specific matches. > ADDED "Note that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering > more specific matches before less specific ones" > under > list per-node-capabilities { > description > "Each list entry specifies capabilities for the selected > data nodes. The same capabilities apply for the data nodes > in the subtree below the selected nodes. > > The system SHALL order the entries according to their > precedence. The order of the entries MUST NOT change unless > the underlying capabilities also change."; > We did NOT add next to "2) If the datastore entry is found within that > entry ..." because that section focuses on the user (as opposed to the > implementer on the server), as mentioned in "To find a capability > value for a specific data node in a > specific datastore the user SHALL:" >> 11. >> // augmentation point for system level capabilities >> Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities." I would also suggest using a block style >> comment so this doesn't get lost. > DONE. >> 12. >> Only one specific datastore can be specified >> e.g., ds:conventional is not allowed."; >> >> Suggest changing to: >> >> Only specific datastores can be specified. >> E.g., ds:conventional, which represents a >> set of configuration datastores, must not be >> used"; > DONE >> 13. >> description >> "A method to select all or some nodes within a datastore."; >> >> "some or all" would flow better. > DONE >> 14. >> // augmentation point for datastore or data node level >> // capabilities >> >> Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities." I would also suggest using a block style >> comment so this doesn't get lost. > DONE. >> 15. >> 5.2. YANG Module (ietf-notification-capabilities) >> >> - capabilities related to the throughput of notification data >> the publisher can support. (Note that for a specific >> subscription the publisher MAY still allow only longer periods >> or smaller updates depending on e.g., actual load conditions.) >> >> Suggest: "data that the publisher" >> "specific subscription, the" >> "still allow" -> "allow" >> "e.g., -> ", e.g., " > DONE. >> >> >> >> 16. >> bit config-changes { >> description >> "The publisher is capable of sending >> notifications for 'config false' nodes for the >> relevant scope and subscription type."; >> >> I presume that this should this be 'config true' nodes? > GOOD CATCH+ > >> 17. >> description >> "Type for defining whether 'on-change' or >> 'periodic' notifications are supported 'config false' >> data nodes, 'config true' date nodes, no data nodes, >> or all data nodes. >> >> Suggest: "supported for 'config false'", >> "date" -> "data >> As an optional minor nit, it might be worth putting 'all' at the beginning >> of the list rather than the end. > DONE. >> 18. >> "Indicates the minimal update period that is >> supported for a 'periodic' subscription. >> >> A subscription request to the selected data >> nodes with a smaller period than what this leaf >> specifies will result in a 'period-unsupported' error."; >> >> Is "will result" right here, or should it be "MAY result" or "is likely to result"? >> I.e., is the server guaranteeing that it won't handle a smaller update for the >> given capability under any circumstance? The same question also applies >> to the "supported-update-period". > DONE. "is likely to result" >> 19. >> "The change types that can be excluded in >> YANG-Push subscriptions."; >> >> Suggest adding something like "for the selected data nodes." > DONE >> 20. >> 7.2. The YANG Module Names Registry >> >> This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names >> registry. Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following >> registrations are requested: >> >> This should be (along with a normative reference to RFC 6020): >> >> This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names >> registry [RFC6020]. Following the format in [RFC6020], the the following >> registrations are requested: > DONE. >> 21. >> 9.2. Informative References >> >> [RFC3688] Mealling, M., "The IETF XML Registry", BCP 81, RFC 3688, >> DOI 10.17487/RFC3688, January 2004, >> . >> >> This needs to be a normative reference (for the IANA registry) definition. > DONE >> 22. >> Appendix A. Instance data example #1 >> >> Suggest changing: >> "the running, and operational datastores" => "the running and operational datastores". >> '"on-change" only' -> '"on-change", only' >> 'reported "on-change" as they' -> 'reported "on-change", as they' > DONE >> 23. >> ========== NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP YYY (RFC YYYY) =========== >> >> This can be updated to "NOTE: '\' line wrapping per RFC 8792". > DONE >> 24. >> "only has running, and operational" -> "only has running and operational" > DONE. >> 25. >> false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are >> not reported on-change only two important counters, for these >> a smaller dampening period is possible. >> >> Suggest: >> false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are >> not reported on-change except for two important counters, where >> a small dampening period is mandated. > DONE. >> >> >> Spelling/grammar warnings (generated by tool): >> >> Potentially incorrect spellings: sheperds, getconfig >> >> Grammar Warnings: >> Section: 1, draft text: >> Servers and/or a publishers often have capabilities, values describing operational behavior, that need to be conveyed to clients, which is enabled by the YANG modules described in this document. >> Warning: The plural noun "publishers" cannot be used with the article "a". Did you mean a publisher or publishers? >> Suggested change: "a publisher" > DONE >> Section: 1, draft text: >> It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing such capabilities in a format that is: >> - vendor independent >> - machine readable >> - available in identical format both at implementation-time and run-time >> >> Warning: This word is normally spelled with hyphen. >> Suggested change: "machine-readable" > DONE >> Section: 1, draft text: >> It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing such capabilities in a format that is: >> - vendor independent >> - machine readable >> - available in identical format both at implementation-time and run-time >> >> Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. >> Suggested change: "run-time." > DONE >> Section: 1, draft text: >> Moreover the decision to buy the node type sometimes depends on these management possibilities. >> Warning: Did you forget a comma after a conjunctive/linking adverb? >> Suggested change: "Moreover," > DONE. >> Section: 1.1, draft text: >> "Implementation-time information": Information about the server's behavior that is made available during the implementation of the server, available from a source other then a running server. >> Warning: Did you mean other than? >> Suggested change: "other than" > DONE. >> Section: 3, draft text: >> These include: >> - Supported (reporting) periods for "periodic" subscriptions >> - Maximum number of objects that can be sent in an update >> - The set of datastores or data nodes for which "periodic" notification is supported >> >> Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. >> Suggested change: "supported." > DONE >> Section: 7.2, draft text: >> Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following registrations are requested: >> Warning: Maybe you need to remove one determiner so that only the or the is left. >> Suggested change: "the" > DONE >> Section: Appendix C, draft text: >> In this latter case it is really the server functionality that is discussed >> >> Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. >> Suggested change: "discussed." > DONE >> Thanks, >> Rob >> . > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------59D143793CE352E461DD6345 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

I realized that the NETMOD WG was copied on this email thread, instead of NETFCONF.
Now corrected, for archiving purposes.

Regards, Benoit

On 7/5/2021 12:53 PM, Benoit Claise wrote:
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your detailed review.
A new draft version has been posted.
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities/
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities-17

See the justifications below.

On 6/21/2021 10:45 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
Hi,

Here is my AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiltiies-16

Thanks for this draft, sorry for the delay in reviewing.  It looks like it is in good shape.

I think that most of my comments are minor or cosmetic suggestions to potentially improve the phrasing of the text.


1.
Abstract:

   The module "ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder
   structure that can be used to discover YANG related system
   capabilities for servers.  The module can be used to report
   capability information from the server at run-time or implementation-
   time, per the YANG Instance Data File Format.

Suggest "by making use of" rather than "per".
DONE.
2.
   1.  Introduction

   There is a need to publish this capability information as it is part
   of the contract between the server and client.

Suggest "contract" -> "API contract".
DONE
3.
   There is a need to publish this capability information as it is part
   of the contract between the server and client.  Examples include
   maximum size of data that can be stored or transferred, information
   about counters (whether a node supports "on-change" telemetry), etc.
   Such capabilities are often dependent on a vendor's implementation or
   the available resources at deployment.  Many such capabilities are
   specific to either the complete system, individual YANG datastores
   [RFC8342] or specific parts of the YANG schema, or even individual
   data nodes.  It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of
   representing such capabilities in a format that is:

Suggest: maximum -> the maximum
         "or specific" -> ", specific"
DONE
4.
   o  available in identical format both at implementation-time and run-
      time
	  
Suggest: "in an identical", and a period at the end.
DONE
5.
   If the information is
   not documented in a way available to the NMS designer, but only as
   instance data from the network node once it is deployed, the NMS
   implementation will be delayed

Suggest: "way available" => "way that is readily available"
DONE
6.
   The network operator needs to plan his
   management practices and NMS implementation before he even decides to
   buy the specific network node type.

Suggest: "him" -> "their", "he even decides" -> "they decide"
DONE
7.
   Run-time information is needed:
   
Suggest: Run-time capability information is needed:
DONE.
8.
   o  to check that capability information provided earlier, at
      implementation-time is what the publisher has implemented.

Suggest: "at implementation-time, is"
DONE
9.
     To find a capability value for a specific data node in a
     specific datastore the user SHALL:
	 
Please clarify that the capability value is selected by the relative path
to the datanode defining the capability.  i.e., the same name/path must be
used both under the system level and per datastore level capabilties.
NEW SENTENCE. 
"When stating a specific capability, the relative path for any specific
capability must be the same under the system-capabilities container and
under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for defining the
capabilities MUST be used. "
10.
2) If the datastore entry is found within that entry, process all
     per-node-capabilities entries in the order they appear in the list.
     The first entry that specifies the specific capability and has a
     node-selector selecting the specific data node defines the
     capability value.

I'm not sure this is required, but perhaps consider adding text to make it clear
that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific
matches before less specific matches.
ADDED "Note that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific matches before less specific ones"
under 
    list per-node-capabilities {
        description
          "Each list entry specifies capabilities for the selected
           data nodes. The same capabilities apply for the data nodes
           in the subtree below the selected nodes.

           The system SHALL order the entries according to their
           precedence. The order of the entries MUST NOT change unless
           the underlying capabilities also change.";
We did NOT add next to "2) If the datastore entry is found within that entry ..." because that section focuses on the user (as opposed to the implementer on the server), as mentioned in "To find a capability value for a specific data node in a 
     specific datastore the user SHALL:"
11.
    // augmentation point for system level capabilities
Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities."  I would also suggest using a block style
comment so this doesn't get lost.
DONE.
12. 
           Only one specific datastore can be specified
           e.g., ds:conventional is not allowed.";
		   
Suggest changing to:

           Only specific datastores can be specified.
		   E.g., ds:conventional, which represents a
		   set of configuration datastores, must not be
		   used";
DONE
13.
          description
            "A method to select all or some nodes within a datastore.";

"some or all" would flow better.
DONE
14.
        // augmentation point for datastore or data node level
        // capabilities

Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities."  I would also suggest using a block style
comment so this doesn't get lost.
DONE.
15.
5.2.  YANG Module (ietf-notification-capabilities)

      - capabilities related to the throughput of notification data
      the publisher can support. (Note that for a specific
      subscription the publisher MAY still allow only longer periods
      or smaller updates depending on e.g., actual load conditions.)
	  
Suggest: "data that the publisher"
         "specific subscription, the"
		 "still allow" -> "allow"
         "e.g., -> ", e.g., "
DONE.
 


16.
           bit config-changes {
             description
               "The publisher is capable of sending
                notifications for 'config false' nodes for the
                relevant scope and subscription type.";
				
I presume that this should this be 'config true' nodes?
GOOD CATCH+

17.
         description
           "Type for defining whether 'on-change' or
            'periodic' notifications are supported 'config false'
            data nodes, 'config true' date nodes, no data nodes,
            or all data nodes.
			
Suggest: "supported for 'config false'",
         "date" -> "data
As an optional minor nit, it might be worth putting 'all' at the beginning
of the list rather than the end.
DONE.
18.
             "Indicates the minimal update period that is
              supported for a 'periodic' subscription.

              A subscription request to the selected data
              nodes with a smaller period than what this leaf
              specifies will result in a 'period-unsupported' error.";

Is "will result" right here, or should it be "MAY result" or "is likely to result"?
I.e., is the server guaranteeing that it won't handle a smaller update for the
given capability under any circumstance?  The same question also applies
to the "supported-update-period".
DONE. "is likely to result"
19.
           "The change types that can be excluded in
            YANG-Push subscriptions.";
			
Suggest adding something like "for the selected data nodes."
DONE
20.
7.2.  The YANG Module Names Registry

   This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names
   registry.  Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following
   registrations are requested:
   
This should be (along with a normative reference to RFC 6020):

   This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names
   registry [RFC6020].  Following the format in [RFC6020], the the following
   registrations are requested:
DONE.
21.
9.2.  Informative References

   [RFC3688]  Mealling, M., "The IETF XML Registry", BCP 81, RFC 3688,
              DOI 10.17487/RFC3688, January 2004,
              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3688>.
			 
This needs to be a normative reference (for the IANA registry) definition.
DONE
22.
Appendix A.  Instance data example #1

Suggest changing:
"the running, and operational datastores" => "the running and operational datastores".
'"on-change" only' -> '"on-change", only'
'reported "on-change" as they' -> 'reported "on-change", as they'
DONE
23.
========== NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP YYY (RFC YYYY) ===========

This can be updated to "NOTE: '\' line wrapping per RFC 8792".
DONE
24.
"only has running, and operational" -> "only has running and operational"
DONE.
25.
    false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are
    not reported on-change only two important counters, for these
    a smaller dampening period is possible.
	
Suggest:
	false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are
    not reported on-change except for two important counters, where
    a small dampening period is mandated.
DONE.
	

Spelling/grammar warnings (generated by tool):

Potentially incorrect spellings: sheperds, getconfig

Grammar Warnings:
Section: 1, draft text:
 Servers and/or a publishers often have capabilities, values describing operational behavior, that need to be conveyed to clients, which is enabled by the YANG modules described in this document. 
Warning:  The plural noun "publishers" cannot be used with the article "a". Did you mean a publisher or publishers?
Suggested change:  "a publisher"
DONE
Section: 1, draft text:
It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing such capabilities in a format that is: 
- vendor independent
- machine readable
- available in identical format both at implementation-time and run-time

Warning:  This word is normally spelled with hyphen.
Suggested change:  "machine-readable"
DONE
Section: 1, draft text:
It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing such capabilities in a format that is: 
- vendor independent
- machine readable
- available in identical format both at implementation-time and run-time

Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph.
Suggested change:  "run-time."
DONE
Section: 1, draft text:
Moreover the decision to buy the node type sometimes depends on these management possibilities. 
Warning:  Did you forget a comma after a conjunctive/linking adverb?
Suggested change:  "Moreover,"
DONE.
Section: 1.1, draft text:
 "Implementation-time information": Information about the server's behavior that is made available during the implementation of the server, available from a source other then a running server. 
Warning:  Did you mean other than?
Suggested change:  "other than"
DONE.
Section: 3, draft text:
These include: 
- Supported (reporting) periods for "periodic" subscriptions
- Maximum number of objects that can be sent in an update
- The set of datastores or data nodes for which "periodic" notification is supported

Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph.
Suggested change:  "supported."
DONE
Section: 7.2, draft text:
Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following registrations are requested:
Warning:  Maybe you need to remove one determiner so that only the or the is left.
Suggested change:  "the"
DONE
Section: Appendix C, draft text:
In this latter case it is really the server functionality that is discussed

Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph.
Suggested change:  "discussed."
DONE
Thanks,
Rob
.



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15.20.4287.033; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 08:09:04 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Benoit Claise , "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" CC: "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities Thread-Index: AddmeRIyRipJy+knSnCwVIYs/HEmSgLEuHgAABTE4oAAF796kA== Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 08:09:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: huawei.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;huawei.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fb115d8e-b643-4522-2f8c-08d940555234 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR11MB2729: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: 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b3I6cHVycGxlIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmY8 L3NwYW4+PC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rp dj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_DM4PR11MB5438034DFB9BBCC8963445C2B51B9DM4PR11MB5438namp_-- From nobody Tue Jul 6 12:10:14 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a7d3a2e1f-af85d7a6-9304-4e62-9fcb-785fae37004b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E9E13A31EC; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ucjAjcr0gGZS; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58F3D3A31ED; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:10:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625598603; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=SRZHFQqV/tg1zFidkUYzW2hOELeKh3WJcZOLXPPEDgc=; b=aNkTZt+bsiOKYlplObQRfC1bbx+N20RoLz656094rafioCbIAbCYIAE8OpHlE+Eq Nae0lFpfDr+LfKLZ4wL6BxVI2X+AxzJpRBe4ksr2hK9zKp6tMsmVU7DVvGLAvrksrDy cgfdi2wbnt4CG2fK5fZkHW+xVALM3M7RaOkk/Lgg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017a7d3a2e1f-af85d7a6-9304-4e62-9fcb-785fae37004b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8C662EBE-7C15-40EB-9DE5-CAF4EE7B83E3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 19:10:02 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Benoit Claise , "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.06-54.240.48.93 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 19:10:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8C662EBE-7C15-40EB-9DE5-CAF4EE7B83E3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I happened to have a reason to extract and validate the = "ietf-system-capabilities=E2=80=9D module (from the draft posted = yesterday) and got the following errors when using `pyang -Werror --ietf = --max-line-length=3D69`, as I always do, to ensure `xml2rfc` doesn=E2=80=99= t emit any warnings: ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:44: error: line length 70 = exceeds 69 characters ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:56: error: line length 70 = exceeds 69 characters ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:57: error: line length 72 = exceeds 69 characters ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:151: error: line length 70 = exceeds 69 characters ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:159: error: line length 71 = exceeds 69 characters ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:164: error: line length 70 = exceeds 69 characters ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:165: error: line length 70 = exceeds 69 characters K. > On Jul 6, 2021, at 4:09 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > Sorry, my bad for posting to the wrong alias originally. Benoit, = thanks for the correction. > =20 > Regards, > Rob > =20 > =20 > From: Benoit Claise =20 > Sent: 05 July 2021 21:48 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org > Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities > =20 > Dear all,=20 >=20 > I realized that the NETMOD WG was copied on this email thread, instead = of NETFCONF. > Now corrected, for archiving purposes. >=20 > Regards, Benoit >=20 > On 7/5/2021 12:53 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi Rob, >=20 > Thanks for your detailed review. > A new draft version has been posted. >=20 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiliti= es-17.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilit= ies/ = > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capa= bilities = > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabi= lities-17 = >=20 > See the justifications below. >=20 > On 6/21/2021 10:45 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi, > =20 > Here is my AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiltiies-16 > =20 > Thanks for this draft, sorry for the delay in reviewing. It looks = like it is in good shape. > =20 > I think that most of my comments are minor or cosmetic suggestions to = potentially improve the phrasing of the text. > =20 > =20 > 1. > Abstract: > =20 > The module "ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder > structure that can be used to discover YANG related system > capabilities for servers. The module can be used to report > capability information from the server at run-time or = implementation- > time, per the YANG Instance Data File Format. > =20 > Suggest "by making use of" rather than "per". > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 2. > 1. Introduction > =20 > There is a need to publish this capability information as it is = part > of the contract between the server and client. > =20 > Suggest "contract" -> "API contract". > DONE >=20 > =20 > 3. > There is a need to publish this capability information as it is = part > of the contract between the server and client. Examples include > maximum size of data that can be stored or transferred, information > about counters (whether a node supports "on-change" telemetry), = etc. > Such capabilities are often dependent on a vendor's implementation = or > the available resources at deployment. Many such capabilities are > specific to either the complete system, individual YANG datastores > [RFC8342] or specific parts of the YANG schema, or even individual > data nodes. It is a goal of this document to provide a common way = of > representing such capabilities in a format that is: > =20 > Suggest: maximum -> the maximum > "or specific" -> ", specific" > DONE >=20 > =20 > 4. > o available in identical format both at implementation-time and = run- > time > =20 > Suggest: "in an identical", and a period at the end. > DONE >=20 > =20 > 5. > If the information is > not documented in a way available to the NMS designer, but only as > instance data from the network node once it is deployed, the NMS > implementation will be delayed > =20 > Suggest: "way available" =3D> "way that is readily available" > DONE >=20 > =20 > 6. > The network operator needs to plan his > management practices and NMS implementation before he even decides = to > buy the specific network node type. > =20 > Suggest: "him" -> "their", "he even decides" -> "they decide" > DONE >=20 > =20 > 7. > Run-time information is needed: > =20 > Suggest: Run-time capability information is needed: > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 8. > o to check that capability information provided earlier, at > implementation-time is what the publisher has implemented. > =20 > Suggest: "at implementation-time, is" > DONE >=20 > =20 > 9. > To find a capability value for a specific data node in a > specific datastore the user SHALL: > =20 > Please clarify that the capability value is selected by the relative = path > to the datanode defining the capability. i.e., the same name/path = must be > used both under the system level and per datastore level capabilties. > NEW SENTENCE.=20 >=20 > "When stating a specific capability, the relative path for any = specific > capability must be the same under the system-capabilities container = and > under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for defining = the > capabilities MUST be used. " > 10. > 2) If the datastore entry is found within that entry, process all > per-node-capabilities entries in the order they appear in the = list. > The first entry that specifies the specific capability and has a > node-selector selecting the specific data node defines the > capability value. > =20 > I'm not sure this is required, but perhaps consider adding text to = make it clear > that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific > matches before less specific matches. > ADDED "Note that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering = more specific matches before less specific ones" > under=20 > list per-node-capabilities { > description > "Each list entry specifies capabilities for the selected > data nodes. The same capabilities apply for the data nodes > in the subtree below the selected nodes. > =20 > The system SHALL order the entries according to their > precedence. The order of the entries MUST NOT change unless > the underlying capabilities also change."; > We did NOT add next to "2) If the datastore entry is found within that = entry ..." because that section focuses on the user (as opposed to the = implementer on the server), as mentioned in "To find a capability value = for a specific data node in a=20 > specific datastore the user SHALL:" > =20 > 11. > // augmentation point for system level capabilities > Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities." I would also suggest using = a block style > comment so this doesn't get lost. =20 > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 12.=20 > Only one specific datastore can be specified > e.g., ds:conventional is not allowed."; > =20 > Suggest changing to: > =20 > Only specific datastores can be specified. > E.g., ds:conventional, which represents a > set of configuration datastores, must not be > used"; > DONE >=20 > =20 > 13. > description > "A method to select all or some nodes within a = datastore."; > =20 > "some or all" would flow better. > DONE >=20 > =20 > 14. > // augmentation point for datastore or data node level > // capabilities > =20 > Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities." I would also suggest using = a block style > comment so this doesn't get lost. > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 15. > 5.2. YANG Module (ietf-notification-capabilities) > =20 > - capabilities related to the throughput of notification data > the publisher can support. (Note that for a specific > subscription the publisher MAY still allow only longer periods > or smaller updates depending on e.g., actual load conditions.) > =20 > Suggest: "data that the publisher" > "specific subscription, the" > "still allow" -> "allow" > "e.g., -> ", e.g., " =20 > DONE. >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > 16. > bit config-changes { > description > "The publisher is capable of sending > notifications for 'config false' nodes for the > relevant scope and subscription type."; > =20 > I presume that this should this be 'config true' nodes? > GOOD CATCH+ >=20 >=20 > =20 > 17. > description > "Type for defining whether 'on-change' or > 'periodic' notifications are supported 'config false' > data nodes, 'config true' date nodes, no data nodes, > or all data nodes. > =20 > Suggest: "supported for 'config false'", > "date" -> "data > As an optional minor nit, it might be worth putting 'all' at the = beginning > of the list rather than the end. > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 18. > "Indicates the minimal update period that is > supported for a 'periodic' subscription. > =20 > A subscription request to the selected data > nodes with a smaller period than what this leaf > specifies will result in a 'period-unsupported' error."; > =20 > Is "will result" right here, or should it be "MAY result" or "is = likely to result"? > I.e., is the server guaranteeing that it won't handle a smaller update = for the > given capability under any circumstance? The same question also = applies > to the "supported-update-period". > DONE. "is likely to result" >=20 > =20 > 19. > "The change types that can be excluded in > YANG-Push subscriptions."; > =20 > Suggest adding something like "for the selected data nodes." > DONE >=20 > =20 > 20. > 7.2. The YANG Module Names Registry > =20 > This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names > registry. Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following > registrations are requested: > =20 > This should be (along with a normative reference to RFC 6020): > =20 > This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names > registry [RFC6020]. Following the format in [RFC6020], the the = following > registrations are requested: > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 21. > 9.2. Informative References > =20 > [RFC3688] Mealling, M., "The IETF XML Registry", BCP 81, RFC 3688, > DOI 10.17487/RFC3688, January 2004, > = . > =20 > This needs to be a normative reference (for the IANA registry) = definition. > DONE >=20 > =20 > 22. > Appendix A. Instance data example #1 > =20 > Suggest changing: > "the running, and operational datastores" =3D> "the running and = operational datastores". > '"on-change" only' -> '"on-change", only' > 'reported "on-change" as they' -> 'reported "on-change", as they' > DONE >=20 > =20 > 23. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP YYY = (RFC YYYY) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =20 > This can be updated to "NOTE: '\' line wrapping per RFC 8792". > DONE >=20 > =20 > 24. > "only has running, and operational" -> "only has running and = operational" > DONE. >=20 > =20 > 25. > false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are > not reported on-change only two important counters, for these > a smaller dampening period is possible. > =20 > Suggest: > false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are > not reported on-change except for two important counters, where > a small dampening period is mandated. > DONE. >=20 > =20 > =20 > Spelling/grammar warnings (generated by tool): > =20 > Potentially incorrect spellings: sheperds, getconfig > =20 > Grammar Warnings: > Section: 1, draft text: > Servers and/or a publishers often have capabilities, values = describing operational behavior, that need to be conveyed to clients, = which is enabled by the YANG modules described in this document.=20 > Warning: The plural noun "publishers" cannot be used with the article = "a". Did you mean a publisher or publishers? > Suggested change: "a publisher" > DONE >=20 > Section: 1, draft text: > It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing = such capabilities in a format that is:=20 > - vendor independent > - machine readable > - available in identical format both at implementation-time and = run-time > =20 > Warning: This word is normally spelled with hyphen. > Suggested change: "machine-readable" > DONE >=20 > =20 > Section: 1, draft text: > It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing = such capabilities in a format that is:=20 > - vendor independent > - machine readable > - available in identical format both at implementation-time and = run-time > =20 > Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. > Suggested change: "run-time." > DONE >=20 > =20 > Section: 1, draft text: > Moreover the decision to buy the node type sometimes depends on these = management possibilities.=20 > Warning: Did you forget a comma after a conjunctive/linking adverb? > Suggested change: "Moreover," > DONE. >=20 > =20 > Section: 1.1, draft text: > "Implementation-time information": Information about the server's = behavior that is made available during the implementation of the server, = available from a source other then a running server.=20 > Warning: Did you mean other than? > Suggested change: "other than" > DONE. >=20 > =20 > Section: 3, draft text: > These include:=20 > - Supported (reporting) periods for "periodic" subscriptions > - Maximum number of objects that can be sent in an update > - The set of datastores or data nodes for which "periodic" = notification is supported > =20 > Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. > Suggested change: "supported." > DONE >=20 > =20 > Section: 7.2, draft text: > Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following registrations are = requested: > Warning: Maybe you need to remove one determiner so that only the or = the is left. > Suggested change: "the" > DONE >=20 > =20 > Section: Appendix C, draft text: > In this latter case it is really the server functionality that is = discussed > =20 > Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. > Suggested change: "discussed." > DONE >=20 > Thanks, > Rob > . >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = --Apple-Mail=_8C662EBE-7C15-40EB-9DE5-CAF4EE7B83E3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = happened to have a reason to extract and validate the "ietf-system-capabilities=E2=80=9D module = (from the draft posted yesterday) and got the following errors when = using `pyang -Werror --ietf --max-line-length=3D69`, as I always do, to = ensure `xml2rfc` doesn=E2=80=99t emit any warnings:

ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:44: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:56: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:57: = error: line length 72 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:151: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:159: = error: line length 71 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:164: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:165: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters

K.



On Jul = 6, 2021, at 4:09 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> = wrote:

Sorry, my bad for posting to = the wrong alias originally.  Benoit, thanks for the correction.
 
Regards,
Rob
 
 
From: Benoit = Claise <benoit.claise@huawei.com> 
Sent: 05 = July 2021 21:48
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org
Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities
 

Dear = all, 

I realized that the NETMOD WG was copied on this email = thread, instead of NETFCONF.
Now corrected, for archiving = purposes.

Regards, Benoit

On = 7/5/2021 12:53 PM, Benoit Claise wrote:
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your detailed review.
A= new draft version has been posted.

URL:          =
;  https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-notification=
-capabilities-17.txt
Status:        =
 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notificatio=
n-capabilities/
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notifi=
cation-capabilities
Diff:          =
 https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-notifica=
tion-capabilities-17


See the justifications below.

On = 6/21/2021 10:45 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
Hi,
 
Here =
is my AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiltiies-16
 
Thanks =
for this draft, sorry for the delay in reviewing.  It looks like it =
is in good shape.
 
I think that most of my comments are minor or cosmetic =
suggestions to potentially improve the phrasing of the text.
 
 
1.
Abstract:
 
   The module =
"ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder
   structure that can be used to discover YANG =
related system
   capabilities for servers.  The module can =
be used to report
   capability information from the server at =
run-time or implementation-
   time, per the YANG =
Instance Data File Format.
 
Suggest=
 "by making use of" rather than "per".
DONE.

 
2.
   1.  Introduction
 
   There is a need to publish this capability =
information as it is part
   of the contract between the server =
and client.
 
Suggest "contract" -> "API contract".
DONE

 
3.
   There is a need to publish this capability =
information as it is part
   of the contract between the server =
and client.  Examples include
   maximum size of data =
that can be stored or transferred, information
   about counters (whether a node supports =
"on-change" telemetry), etc.
   Such capabilities are =
often dependent on a vendor's implementation or
   the available resources at deployment.  =
Many such capabilities are
   specific to either the =
complete system, individual YANG datastores
   [RFC8342] or specific parts of the YANG schema, =
or even individual
   data nodes.  It is a goal of this document =
to provide a common way of
   representing such =
capabilities in a format that is:
 
Suggest: maximum -> the maximum
         "or =
specific" -> ", specific"
DONE

 
4.
   o  available in identical format both at =
implementation-time and run-
      =
time
  =
  
Suggest: "in an identical", and a period at the end.
DONE

 
5.
   If the information is
   not documented in a way available to the NMS =
designer, but only as
   instance data from the network node =
once it is deployed, the NMS
   implementation will be =
delayed
 
Suggest: "way available" =3D> "way that is readily =
available"
DONE

 
6.
   The network operator needs to plan his
   management practices and NMS implementation =
before he even decides to
   buy the specific network node =
type.
 
Suggest: "him" -> "their", "he even decides" -> "they =
decide"
DONE

 
7.
   Run-time information is needed:
   
Suggest: Run-time capability information is =
needed:
DONE.

 
8.
   o  to check that capability information =
provided earlier, at
      =
implementation-time is what the publisher has implemented.
 
Suggest: "at implementation-time, is"
DONE

 
9.
     To find a capability value for a =
specific data node in a
     specific datastore the =
user SHALL:
   
Please clarify that the capability value is selected by the =
relative path
to the datanode defining the capability.  i.e., the same =
name/path must be
used both under the system level and per datastore level =
capabilties.
NEW = SENTENCE. 

"When stating a specific =
capability, the relative path for any specific
capability must be the same under the system-capabilities =
container and
under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for =
defining the
capabilities MUST be used. "
10.
2) If =
the datastore entry is found within that entry, process all
     per-node-capabilities entries in the =
order they appear in the list.
     The first =
entry that specifies the specific capability and has a
     node-selector selecting the specific =
data node defines the
     capability value.
 
I'm =
not sure this is required, but perhaps consider adding text to make it =
clear
that =
longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific
matches=
 before less specific matches.
ADDED = "Note that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more = specific matches before less specific ones"
under 
    list per-node-capabilities {
        description
          "Each =
list entry specifies capabilities for the selected
           =
data nodes. The same capabilities apply for the data nodes
           =
in the subtree below the selected nodes.
 
           =
The system SHALL order the entries according to their
           =
precedence. The order of the entries MUST NOT change unless
           =
the underlying capabilities also change.";
We did NOT add next to "2) If the datastore = entry is found within that entry ..." because that section focuses on = the user (as opposed to the implementer on the server), as mentioned in = "To find a capability value for a specific data node in a 
     specific datastore the user =
SHALL:"
 
11.
    // augmentation point for system level =
capabilities
Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities."  I would also =
suggest using a block style
comment so this doesn't get =
lost.    
DONE.

 
12. =

          &nb=
sp;Only one specific datastore can be specified
           =
e.g., ds:conventional is not allowed.";
          =
   
Suggest changing to:
 
           =
Only specific datastores can be specified.
          =    E.g., ds:conventional, which represents a
          =
   set of configuration datastores, must not be
          =
   used";
DONE

 
13.
          =
description
          &nb=
sp; "A method to select all or some nodes within a datastore.";
 
"some =
or all" would flow better.
DONE

 
14.
        // augmentation =
point for datastore or data node level
        // =
capabilities
 
Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities."  I would also =
suggest using a block style
comment so this doesn't get =
lost.
DONE.

 
15.
5.2.  YANG Module (ietf-notification-capabilities)
 
      - capabilities related to the =
throughput of notification data
      the =
publisher can support. (Note that for a specific
      subscription the publisher MAY =
still allow only longer periods
      or =
smaller updates depending on e.g., actual load conditions.)
  =
  
Suggest: "data that the publisher"
         "specific =
subscription, the"
           =
"still allow" -> "allow"
         "e.g., -> =
", e.g., =
"           
DONE.

 
 
 
16.
           =
bit config-changes {
          &nb=
sp;  description
          &nb=
sp;    "The publisher is capable of sending
          &nb=
sp;     notifications for 'config false' nodes for =
the
          &nb=
sp;     relevant scope and subscription type.";
          &nb=
sp;            =
;  
I presume that this should this be 'config true' nodes?
GOOD = CATCH+


 
17.
         =
description
           =
"Type for defining whether 'on-change' or
          &nb=
sp; 'periodic' notifications are supported 'config false'
          &nb=
sp; data nodes, 'config true' date nodes, no data nodes,
          &nb=
sp; or all data nodes.
          &nb=
sp;       
Suggest: "supported for 'config =
false'",
         "date" -> =
"data
As an =
optional minor nit, it might be worth putting 'all' at the beginning
of =
the list rather than the end.
DONE.

 
18.
          &nb=
sp;  "Indicates the minimal update period that is
          &nb=
sp;   supported for a 'periodic' subscription.
 
          &nb=
sp;   A subscription request to the selected data
          &nb=
sp;   nodes with a smaller period than what this leaf
          &nb=
sp;   specifies will result in a 'period-unsupported' =
error.";
 
Is "will result" right here, or should it be "MAY result" or =
"is likely to result"?
I.e., is the server guaranteeing that it won't =
handle a smaller update for the
given capability under any =
circumstance?  The same question also applies
to =
the "supported-update-period".
DONE. "is = likely to result"

 
19.
           =
"The change types that can be excluded in
          &nb=
sp; YANG-Push subscriptions.";
          &nb=
sp;       
Suggest adding something like "for =
the selected data nodes."
DONE

 
20.
7.2.  The YANG Module Names Registry
 
   This document registers two YANG modules in the =
YANG Module Names
   registry.  Following the format in =
[RFC7950], the the following
   registrations are =
requested:
   
This should be (along with a normative reference =
to RFC 6020):
 
   This document registers two YANG modules in the =
YANG Module Names
   registry [RFC6020].  Following the format =
in [RFC6020], the the following
   registrations are =
requested:
DONE.

 
21.
9.2.  Informative References
 
   [RFC3688]  Mealling, M., "The IETF XML =
Registry", BCP 81, RFC 3688,
          &nb=
sp;   DOI 10.17487/RFC3688, January 2004,
          &nb=
sp;   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3688>.
          &nb=
sp;        
This needs to be a normative =
reference (for the IANA registry) definition.
DONE

 
22.
Appendix A.  Instance data example #1
 
Suggest=
 changing:
"the running, and operational datastores" =3D> "the =
running and operational datastores".
'"on-change" only' -> =
'"on-change", only'
'reported "on-change" as they' -> 'reported "on-change", =
as they'
DONE

 
23.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping per =
BCP YYY (RFC YYYY) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
This =
can be updated to "NOTE: '\' line wrapping per RFC 8792".
DONE

 
24.
"only =
has running, and operational" -> "only has running and =
operational"
DONE.

 
25.
    false" data from the operational =
datastore. Statistics are
    not reported on-change only =
two important counters, for these
    a smaller =
dampening period is possible.
  
Suggest:
  false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics =
are
    not reported on-change except for two =
important counters, where
    a small dampening period is =
mandated.
DONE.

  =

 
Spelling/grammar warnings (generated by tool):
 
Potentially incorrect spellings: sheperds, getconfig
 
Grammar=
 Warnings:
Section: 1, draft text:
 Servers and/or a publishers often =
have capabilities, values describing operational behavior, that need to =
be conveyed to clients, which is enabled by the YANG modules described =
in this document. 
Warning:  The plural noun "publishers" cannot be used =
with the article "a". Did you mean a publisher or publishers?
Suggested change:  "a publisher"
DONE

Section: 1, draft text:
It is =
a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing such =
capabilities in a format that is: 
- vendor independent
- =
machine readable
- available in identical format both at implementation-time =
and run-time
 
Warning:  This word is normally spelled with hyphen.
Suggested change:  "machine-readable"
DONE

 
Section: 1, draft text:
It is a goal of this document to =
provide a common way of representing such capabilities in a format that =
is: 
- =
vendor independent
- machine readable
- available in identical format =
both at implementation-time and run-time
 
Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of =
paragraph.
Suggested change:  "run-time."
DONE

 
Section: 1, draft text:
Moreover the decision to buy the =
node type sometimes depends on these management possibilities. 
Warning:  Did you forget a comma after a =
conjunctive/linking adverb?
Suggested change:  =
"Moreover,"
DONE.

 
Section: 1.1, draft text:
 "Implementation-time information": =
Information about the server's behavior that is made available during =
the implementation of the server, available from a source other then a =
running server. 
Warning:  Did you mean other than?
Suggested change:  "other than"
DONE.

 
Section: 3, draft text:
These include: 
- =
Supported (reporting) periods for "periodic" subscriptions
- =
Maximum number of objects that can be sent in an update
- The =
set of datastores or data nodes for which "periodic" notification is =
supported
 
Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of =
paragraph.
Suggested change:  "supported."
DONE

 
Section: 7.2, draft text:
Following the format in [RFC7950], =
the the following registrations are requested:
Warning:  Maybe you need to remove one determiner so =
that only the or the is left.
Suggested change:  "the"
DONE

 
Section: Appendix C, draft text:
In =
this latter case it is really the server functionality that is =
discussed
 
Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of =
paragraph.
Suggested change:  "discussed."
DONE

Thanks,
Rob
.



_______________________________________________
netmod =
mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_8C662EBE-7C15-40EB-9DE5-CAF4EE7B83E3-- From nobody Tue Jul 6 16:35:10 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a7e2cc558-bb17a877-08d6-410d-804e-8b12efb000e5-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18A33A0BF7; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:35:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a4Cxvf8ZMhMf; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0AE53A0BF4; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:35:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625614501; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=WECcM/A3pakCsvtwIRSm9tZPUnsySPw34W0p6LALE38=; b=AfUEIhQr5WLvXPmiTpUR0F/qgyGQ8jsq1iC6P1Q3+UcZuZU+Av4SO3AQ7d62E+NL hft4PCQ4MzcPirGpB47k7vkKuFBWR2UNSl3cehg7zetbiL3CdOgQgLPMKr0Ve+W5eb9 tIxhixZ4vG449hKkdzOWqD7jWAImDnsjUMXXU/1Q= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017a7e2cc558-bb17a877-08d6-410d-804e-8b12efb000e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F936C2C4-F182-40EB-AC43-85A4504AC030" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 23:35:01 +0000 In-Reply-To: <0100017a7d3a2e1f-af85d7a6-9304-4e62-9fcb-785fae37004b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org" , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> <0100017a7d3a2e1f-af85d7a6-9304-4e62-9fcb-785fae37004b-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.06-54.240.8.31 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 23:35:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F936C2C4-F182-40EB-AC43-85A4504AC030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Also I noticed an old version of the `rfcfold` script has been used. = The current version of the script is found here: = https://github.com/ietf-tools/rfcfold = . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP YYY (RFC = YYYY) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D K. > On Jul 6, 2021, at 3:10 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > I happened to have a reason to extract and validate the = "ietf-system-capabilities=E2=80=9D module (from the draft posted = yesterday) and got the following errors when using `pyang -Werror --ietf = --max-line-length=3D69`, as I always do, to ensure `xml2rfc` doesn=E2=80=99= t emit any warnings: >=20 > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:44: error: line length 70 = exceeds 69 characters > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang = :56: error: line length = 70 exceeds 69 characters > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang = :57: error: line length = 72 exceeds 69 characters > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang = :151: error: line = length 70 exceeds 69 characters > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang = :159: error: line = length 71 exceeds 69 characters > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang = :164: error: line = length 70 exceeds 69 characters > ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang = :165: error: line = length 70 exceeds 69 characters >=20 > K. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Jul 6, 2021, at 4:09 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: >>=20 >> Sorry, my bad for posting to the wrong alias originally. Benoit, = thanks for the correction. >> =20 >> Regards, >> Rob >> =20 >> =20 >> From: Benoit Claise >=20 >> Sent: 05 July 2021 21:48 >> To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) >; = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org = ; = netconf@ietf.org >> Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities >> =20 >> Dear all,=20 >>=20 >> I realized that the NETMOD WG was copied on this email thread, = instead of NETFCONF. >> Now corrected, for archiving purposes. >>=20 >> Regards, Benoit >>=20 >> On 7/5/2021 12:53 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> Hi Rob, >>=20 >> Thanks for your detailed review. >> A new draft version has been posted. >>=20 >> URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiliti= es-17.txt = >> Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilit= ies/ = >> Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capa= bilities = >> Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabi= lities-17 = >>=20 >> See the justifications below. >>=20 >> On 6/21/2021 10:45 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: >> Hi, >> =20 >> Here is my AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiltiies-16 >> =20 >> Thanks for this draft, sorry for the delay in reviewing. It looks = like it is in good shape. >> =20 >> I think that most of my comments are minor or cosmetic suggestions to = potentially improve the phrasing of the text. >> =20 >> =20 >> 1. >> Abstract: >> =20 >> The module "ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder >> structure that can be used to discover YANG related system >> capabilities for servers. The module can be used to report >> capability information from the server at run-time or = implementation- >> time, per the YANG Instance Data File Format. >> =20 >> Suggest "by making use of" rather than "per". >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 2. >> 1. Introduction >> =20 >> There is a need to publish this capability information as it is = part >> of the contract between the server and client. >> =20 >> Suggest "contract" -> "API contract". >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 3. >> There is a need to publish this capability information as it is = part >> of the contract between the server and client. Examples include >> maximum size of data that can be stored or transferred, = information >> about counters (whether a node supports "on-change" telemetry), = etc. >> Such capabilities are often dependent on a vendor's implementation = or >> the available resources at deployment. Many such capabilities are >> specific to either the complete system, individual YANG datastores >> [RFC8342] or specific parts of the YANG schema, or even individual >> data nodes. It is a goal of this document to provide a common way = of >> representing such capabilities in a format that is: >> =20 >> Suggest: maximum -> the maximum >> "or specific" -> ", specific" >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 4. >> o available in identical format both at implementation-time and = run- >> time >> =20 >> Suggest: "in an identical", and a period at the end. >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 5. >> If the information is >> not documented in a way available to the NMS designer, but only as >> instance data from the network node once it is deployed, the NMS >> implementation will be delayed >> =20 >> Suggest: "way available" =3D> "way that is readily available" >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 6. >> The network operator needs to plan his >> management practices and NMS implementation before he even decides = to >> buy the specific network node type. >> =20 >> Suggest: "him" -> "their", "he even decides" -> "they decide" >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 7. >> Run-time information is needed: >> =20 >> Suggest: Run-time capability information is needed: >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 8. >> o to check that capability information provided earlier, at >> implementation-time is what the publisher has implemented. >> =20 >> Suggest: "at implementation-time, is" >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 9. >> To find a capability value for a specific data node in a >> specific datastore the user SHALL: >> =20 >> Please clarify that the capability value is selected by the relative = path >> to the datanode defining the capability. i.e., the same name/path = must be >> used both under the system level and per datastore level capabilties. >> NEW SENTENCE.=20 >>=20 >> "When stating a specific capability, the relative path for any = specific >> capability must be the same under the system-capabilities container = and >> under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for defining = the >> capabilities MUST be used. " >> 10. >> 2) If the datastore entry is found within that entry, process all >> per-node-capabilities entries in the order they appear in the = list. >> The first entry that specifies the specific capability and has a >> node-selector selecting the specific data node defines the >> capability value. >> =20 >> I'm not sure this is required, but perhaps consider adding text to = make it clear >> that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific >> matches before less specific matches. >> ADDED "Note that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering = more specific matches before less specific ones" >> under=20 >> list per-node-capabilities { >> description >> "Each list entry specifies capabilities for the selected >> data nodes. The same capabilities apply for the data nodes >> in the subtree below the selected nodes. >> =20 >> The system SHALL order the entries according to their >> precedence. The order of the entries MUST NOT change = unless >> the underlying capabilities also change."; >> We did NOT add next to "2) If the datastore entry is found within = that entry ..." because that section focuses on the user (as opposed to = the implementer on the server), as mentioned in "To find a capability = value for a specific data node in a=20 >> specific datastore the user SHALL:" >> =20 >> 11. >> // augmentation point for system level capabilities >> Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities." I would also suggest using = a block style >> comment so this doesn't get lost. =20 >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 12.=20 >> Only one specific datastore can be specified >> e.g., ds:conventional is not allowed."; >> =20 >> Suggest changing to: >> =20 >> Only specific datastores can be specified. >> E.g., ds:conventional, which represents a >> set of configuration datastores, must not be >> used"; >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 13. >> description >> "A method to select all or some nodes within a = datastore."; >> =20 >> "some or all" would flow better. >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 14. >> // augmentation point for datastore or data node level >> // capabilities >> =20 >> Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities." I would also suggest using = a block style >> comment so this doesn't get lost. >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 15. >> 5.2. YANG Module (ietf-notification-capabilities) >> =20 >> - capabilities related to the throughput of notification data >> the publisher can support. (Note that for a specific >> subscription the publisher MAY still allow only longer periods >> or smaller updates depending on e.g., actual load conditions.) >> =20 >> Suggest: "data that the publisher" >> "specific subscription, the" >> "still allow" -> "allow" >> "e.g., -> ", e.g., " =20 >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> 16. >> bit config-changes { >> description >> "The publisher is capable of sending >> notifications for 'config false' nodes for the >> relevant scope and subscription type."; >> =20 >> I presume that this should this be 'config true' nodes? >> GOOD CATCH+ >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >> 17. >> description >> "Type for defining whether 'on-change' or >> 'periodic' notifications are supported 'config false' >> data nodes, 'config true' date nodes, no data nodes, >> or all data nodes. >> =20 >> Suggest: "supported for 'config false'", >> "date" -> "data >> As an optional minor nit, it might be worth putting 'all' at the = beginning >> of the list rather than the end. >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 18. >> "Indicates the minimal update period that is >> supported for a 'periodic' subscription. >> =20 >> A subscription request to the selected data >> nodes with a smaller period than what this leaf >> specifies will result in a 'period-unsupported' = error."; >> =20 >> Is "will result" right here, or should it be "MAY result" or "is = likely to result"? >> I.e., is the server guaranteeing that it won't handle a smaller = update for the >> given capability under any circumstance? The same question also = applies >> to the "supported-update-period". >> DONE. "is likely to result" >>=20 >> =20 >> 19. >> "The change types that can be excluded in >> YANG-Push subscriptions."; >> =20 >> Suggest adding something like "for the selected data nodes." >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 20. >> 7.2. The YANG Module Names Registry >> =20 >> This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names >> registry. Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following >> registrations are requested: >> =20 >> This should be (along with a normative reference to RFC 6020): >> =20 >> This document registers two YANG modules in the YANG Module Names >> registry [RFC6020]. Following the format in [RFC6020], the the = following >> registrations are requested: >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 21. >> 9.2. Informative References >> =20 >> [RFC3688] Mealling, M., "The IETF XML Registry", BCP 81, RFC = 3688, >> DOI 10.17487/RFC3688, January 2004, >> = . >> =20 >> This needs to be a normative reference (for the IANA registry) = definition. >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 22. >> Appendix A. Instance data example #1 >> =20 >> Suggest changing: >> "the running, and operational datastores" =3D> "the running and = operational datastores". >> '"on-change" only' -> '"on-change", only' >> 'reported "on-change" as they' -> 'reported "on-change", as they' >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 23. >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP YYY = (RFC YYYY) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> =20 >> This can be updated to "NOTE: '\' line wrapping per RFC 8792". >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> 24. >> "only has running, and operational" -> "only has running and = operational" >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> 25. >> false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are >> not reported on-change only two important counters, for these >> a smaller dampening period is possible. >> =20 >> Suggest: >> false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics are >> not reported on-change except for two important counters, where >> a small dampening period is mandated. >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Spelling/grammar warnings (generated by tool): >> =20 >> Potentially incorrect spellings: sheperds, getconfig >> =20 >> Grammar Warnings: >> Section: 1, draft text: >> Servers and/or a publishers often have capabilities, values = describing operational behavior, that need to be conveyed to clients, = which is enabled by the YANG modules described in this document.=20 >> Warning: The plural noun "publishers" cannot be used with the = article "a". Did you mean a publisher or publishers? >> Suggested change: "a publisher" >> DONE >>=20 >> Section: 1, draft text: >> It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing = such capabilities in a format that is:=20 >> - vendor independent >> - machine readable >> - available in identical format both at implementation-time and = run-time >> =20 >> Warning: This word is normally spelled with hyphen. >> Suggested change: "machine-readable" >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> Section: 1, draft text: >> It is a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing = such capabilities in a format that is:=20 >> - vendor independent >> - machine readable >> - available in identical format both at implementation-time and = run-time >> =20 >> Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. >> Suggested change: "run-time." >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> Section: 1, draft text: >> Moreover the decision to buy the node type sometimes depends on these = management possibilities.=20 >> Warning: Did you forget a comma after a conjunctive/linking adverb? >> Suggested change: "Moreover," >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> Section: 1.1, draft text: >> "Implementation-time information": Information about the server's = behavior that is made available during the implementation of the server, = available from a source other then a running server.=20 >> Warning: Did you mean other than? >> Suggested change: "other than" >> DONE. >>=20 >> =20 >> Section: 3, draft text: >> These include:=20 >> - Supported (reporting) periods for "periodic" subscriptions >> - Maximum number of objects that can be sent in an update >> - The set of datastores or data nodes for which "periodic" = notification is supported >> =20 >> Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. >> Suggested change: "supported." >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> Section: 7.2, draft text: >> Following the format in [RFC7950], the the following registrations = are requested: >> Warning: Maybe you need to remove one determiner so that only the or = the is left. >> Suggested change: "the" >> DONE >>=20 >> =20 >> Section: Appendix C, draft text: >> In this latter case it is really the server functionality that is = discussed >> =20 >> Warning: Please add a punctuation mark at the end of paragraph. >> Suggested change: "discussed." >> DONE >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Rob >> . >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_F936C2C4-F182-40EB-AC43-85A4504AC030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Also = I noticed an old version of the `rfcfold` script has been used. =  The current version of the script is found here: https://github.com/ietf-tools/rfcfold.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP YYY =
(RFC YYYY) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

K.



On Jul 6, 2021, at 3:10 PM, Kent Watsen = <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

I happened to have a = reason to extract and validate the "ietf-system-capabilities=E2=80=9D module = (from the draft posted yesterday) and got the following errors when = using `pyang -Werror --ietf --max-line-length=3D69`, as I always do, to = ensure `xml2rfc` doesn=E2=80=99t emit any warnings:

ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:44: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:56: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:57: = error: line length 72 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:151: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:159: = error: line length 71 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:164: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters
ietf-system-capabilities@2021-04-02.yang:165: = error: line length 70 exceeds 69 characters

K.



On Jul = 6, 2021, at 4:09 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> = wrote:

Sorry, my bad for posting to = the wrong alias originally.  Benoit, thanks for the correction.
 
Regards,
Rob
 
 
From: Benoit = Claise <benoit.claise@huawei.com> 
Sent: 05 = July 2021 21:48
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org
Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities
 

Dear = all, 

I realized that the NETMOD WG was copied on this email = thread, instead of NETFCONF.
Now corrected, for archiving = purposes.

Regards, Benoit

On = 7/5/2021 12:53 PM, Benoit Claise wrote:
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your detailed review.
A= new draft version has been posted.

URL:          =
;  https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-notification=
-capabilities-17.txt
Status:        =
 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-notificatio=
n-capabilities/
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notifi=
cation-capabilities
Diff:          =
 https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-notifica=
tion-capabilities-17


See the justifications below.

On = 6/21/2021 10:45 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
Hi,
 
Here =
is my AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabiltiies-16
 
Thanks =
for this draft, sorry for the delay in reviewing.  It looks like it =
is in good shape.
 
I think that most of my comments are minor or cosmetic =
suggestions to potentially improve the phrasing of the text.
 
 
1.
Abstract:
 
   The module =
"ietf-system-capabilities" provides a placeholder
   structure that can be used to discover YANG =
related system
   capabilities for servers.  The module can =
be used to report
   capability information from the server at =
run-time or implementation-
   time, per the YANG =
Instance Data File Format.
 
Suggest=
 "by making use of" rather than "per".
DONE.

 
2.
   1.  Introduction
 
   There is a need to publish this capability =
information as it is part
   of the contract between the server =
and client.
 
Suggest "contract" -> "API contract".
DONE

 
3.
   There is a need to publish this capability =
information as it is part
   of the contract between the server =
and client.  Examples include
   maximum size of data =
that can be stored or transferred, information
   about counters (whether a node supports =
"on-change" telemetry), etc.
   Such capabilities are =
often dependent on a vendor's implementation or
   the available resources at deployment.  =
Many such capabilities are
   specific to either the =
complete system, individual YANG datastores
   [RFC8342] or specific parts of the YANG schema, =
or even individual
   data nodes.  It is a goal of this document =
to provide a common way of
   representing such =
capabilities in a format that is:
 
Suggest: maximum -> the maximum
         "or =
specific" -> ", specific"
DONE

 
4.
   o  available in identical format both at =
implementation-time and run-
      =
time
  =
  
Suggest: "in an identical", and a period at the end.
DONE

 
5.
   If the information is
   not documented in a way available to the NMS =
designer, but only as
   instance data from the network node =
once it is deployed, the NMS
   implementation will be =
delayed
 
Suggest: "way available" =3D> "way that is readily =
available"
DONE

 
6.
   The network operator needs to plan his
   management practices and NMS implementation =
before he even decides to
   buy the specific network node =
type.
 
Suggest: "him" -> "their", "he even decides" -> "they =
decide"
DONE

 
7.
   Run-time information is needed:
   
Suggest: Run-time capability information is =
needed:
DONE.

 
8.
   o  to check that capability information =
provided earlier, at
      =
implementation-time is what the publisher has implemented.
 
Suggest: "at implementation-time, is"
DONE

 
9.
     To find a capability value for a =
specific data node in a
     specific datastore the =
user SHALL:
   
Please clarify that the capability value is selected by the =
relative path
to the datanode defining the capability.  i.e., the same =
name/path must be
used both under the system level and per datastore level =
capabilties.
NEW = SENTENCE. 

"When stating a specific =
capability, the relative path for any specific
capability must be the same under the system-capabilities =
container and
under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for =
defining the
capabilities MUST be used. "
10.
2) If =
the datastore entry is found within that entry, process all
     per-node-capabilities entries in the =
order they appear in the list.
     The first =
entry that specifies the specific capability and has a
     node-selector selecting the specific =
data node defines the
     capability value.
 
I'm =
not sure this is required, but perhaps consider adding text to make it =
clear
that =
longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more specific
matches=
 before less specific matches.
ADDED = "Note that longest path matching can be achieved by ordering more = specific matches before less specific ones"
under 
    list per-node-capabilities {
        description
          "Each =
list entry specifies capabilities for the selected
           =
data nodes. The same capabilities apply for the data nodes
           =
in the subtree below the selected nodes.
 
           =
The system SHALL order the entries according to their
           =
precedence. The order of the entries MUST NOT change unless
           =
the underlying capabilities also change.";
We did NOT add next to "2) If the datastore = entry is found within that entry ..." because that section focuses on = the user (as opposed to the implementer on the server), as mentioned in = "To find a capability value for a specific data node in a 
     specific datastore the user =
SHALL:"
 
11.
    // augmentation point for system level =
capabilities
Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities."  I would also =
suggest using a block style
comment so this doesn't get =
lost.    
DONE.

 
12. =

          &nb=
sp;Only one specific datastore can be specified
           =
e.g., ds:conventional is not allowed.";
          =
   
Suggest changing to:
 
           =
Only specific datastores can be specified.
          =    E.g., ds:conventional, which represents a
          =
   set of configuration datastores, must not be
          =
   used";
DONE

 
13.
          =
description
          &nb=
sp; "A method to select all or some nodes within a datastore.";
 
"some =
or all" would flow better.
DONE

 
14.
        // augmentation =
point for datastore or data node level
        // =
capabilities
 
Suggest: "Augmentation ... capabilities."  I would also =
suggest using a block style
comment so this doesn't get =
lost.
DONE.

 
15.
5.2.  YANG Module (ietf-notification-capabilities)
 
      - capabilities related to the =
throughput of notification data
      the =
publisher can support. (Note that for a specific
      subscription the publisher MAY =
still allow only longer periods
      or =
smaller updates depending on e.g., actual load conditions.)
  =
  
Suggest: "data that the publisher"
         "specific =
subscription, the"
           =
"still allow" -> "allow"
         "e.g., -> =
", e.g., =
"           
DONE.

 
 
 
16.
           =
bit config-changes {
          &nb=
sp;  description
          &nb=
sp;    "The publisher is capable of sending
          &nb=
sp;     notifications for 'config false' nodes for =
the
          &nb=
sp;     relevant scope and subscription type.";
          &nb=
sp;            =
;  
I presume that this should this be 'config true' nodes?
GOOD = CATCH+


 
17.
         =
description
           =
"Type for defining whether 'on-change' or
          &nb=
sp; 'periodic' notifications are supported 'config false'
          &nb=
sp; data nodes, 'config true' date nodes, no data nodes,
          &nb=
sp; or all data nodes.
          &nb=
sp;       
Suggest: "supported for 'config =
false'",
         "date" -> =
"data
As an =
optional minor nit, it might be worth putting 'all' at the beginning
of =
the list rather than the end.
DONE.

 
18.
          &nb=
sp;  "Indicates the minimal update period that is
          &nb=
sp;   supported for a 'periodic' subscription.
 
          &nb=
sp;   A subscription request to the selected data
          &nb=
sp;   nodes with a smaller period than what this leaf
          &nb=
sp;   specifies will result in a 'period-unsupported' =
error.";
 
Is "will result" right here, or should it be "MAY result" or =
"is likely to result"?
I.e., is the server guaranteeing that it won't =
handle a smaller update for the
given capability under any =
circumstance?  The same question also applies
to =
the "supported-update-period".
DONE. "is = likely to result"

 
19.
           =
"The change types that can be excluded in
          &nb=
sp; YANG-Push subscriptions.";
          &nb=
sp;       
Suggest adding something like "for =
the selected data nodes."
DONE

 
20.
7.2.  The YANG Module Names Registry
 
   This document registers two YANG modules in the =
YANG Module Names
   registry.  Following the format in =
[RFC7950], the the following
   registrations are =
requested:
   
This should be (along with a normative reference =
to RFC 6020):
 
   This document registers two YANG modules in the =
YANG Module Names
   registry [RFC6020].  Following the format =
in [RFC6020], the the following
   registrations are =
requested:
DONE.

 
21.
9.2.  Informative References
 
   [RFC3688]  Mealling, M., "The IETF XML =
Registry", BCP 81, RFC 3688,
          &nb=
sp;   DOI 10.17487/RFC3688, January 2004,
          &nb=
sp;   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3688>.
          &nb=
sp;        
This needs to be a normative =
reference (for the IANA registry) definition.
DONE

 
22.
Appendix A.  Instance data example #1
 
Suggest=
 changing:
"the running, and operational datastores" =3D> "the =
running and operational datastores".
'"on-change" only' -> =
'"on-change", only'
'reported "on-change" as they' -> 'reported "on-change", =
as they'
DONE

 
23.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping per =
BCP YYY (RFC YYYY) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
This =
can be updated to "NOTE: '\' line wrapping per RFC 8792".
DONE

 
24.
"only =
has running, and operational" -> "only has running and =
operational"
DONE.

 
25.
    false" data from the operational =
datastore. Statistics are
    not reported on-change only =
two important counters, for these
    a smaller =
dampening period is possible.
  
Suggest:
  false" data from the operational datastore. Statistics =
are
    not reported on-change except for two =
important counters, where
    a small dampening period is =
mandated.
DONE.

  =

 
Spelling/grammar warnings (generated by tool):
 
Potentially incorrect spellings: sheperds, getconfig
 
Grammar=
 Warnings:
Section: 1, draft text:
 Servers and/or a publishers often =
have capabilities, values describing operational behavior, that need to =
be conveyed to clients, which is enabled by the YANG modules described =
in this document. 
Warning:  The plural noun "publishers" cannot be used =
with the article "a". Did you mean a publisher or publishers?
Suggested change:  "a publisher"
DONE

Section: 1, draft text:
It is =
a goal of this document to provide a common way of representing such =
capabilities in a format that is: 
- vendor independent
- =
machine readable
- available in identical format both at implementation-time =
and run-time
 
Warning:  This word is normally spelled with hyphen.
Suggested change:  "machine-readable"
DONE

 
Section: 1, draft text:
It is a goal of this document to =
provide a common way of representing such capabilities in a format that =
is: 
- =
vendor independent
- machine readable
- available in identical format =
both at implementation-time and run-time
 
Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of =
paragraph.
Suggested change:  "run-time."
DONE

 
Section: 1, draft text:
Moreover the decision to buy the =
node type sometimes depends on these management possibilities. 
Warning:  Did you forget a comma after a =
conjunctive/linking adverb?
Suggested change:  =
"Moreover,"
DONE.

 
Section: 1.1, draft text:
 "Implementation-time information": =
Information about the server's behavior that is made available during =
the implementation of the server, available from a source other then a =
running server. 
Warning:  Did you mean other than?
Suggested change:  "other than"
DONE.

 
Section: 3, draft text:
These include: 
- =
Supported (reporting) periods for "periodic" subscriptions
- =
Maximum number of objects that can be sent in an update
- The =
set of datastores or data nodes for which "periodic" notification is =
supported
 
Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of =
paragraph.
Suggested change:  "supported."
DONE

 
Section: 7.2, draft text:
Following the format in [RFC7950], =
the the following registrations are requested:
Warning:  Maybe you need to remove one determiner so =
that only the or the is left.
Suggested change:  "the"
DONE

 
Section: Appendix C, draft text:
In =
this latter case it is really the server functionality that is =
discussed
 
Warning:  Please add a punctuation mark at the end of =
paragraph.
Suggested change:  "discussed."
DONE

Thanks,
Rob
.



_______________________________________________
netmod =
mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

_____________________________________________= __
netconf mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_F936C2C4-F182-40EB-AC43-85A4504AC030-- From nobody Wed Jul 7 09:27:50 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a81cbeb7d-a5ff6a8d-56ed-4657-8e7e-1758b859fdff-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CFB3A1E2E for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:27:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T_PVQVXxa95y for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 180353A1E1F for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:27:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625675263; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=FK+vANZj3jZPSdG5qjAtq/7K+C7oy9yaHZnEhcRez3c=; b=CGr0NjKlzENMkf8AfgP11/KTkamN7dXQI1WX6cP0nIDZoxz5yp2kUSUOLn/+kOgm NER205RSqXoRWx1Pso3INomtwMJTqSZT3yzgXzsDeSZD5Y88bt9RvLpbPlLkJfmn6Fx Gn6eSreocIUN7JlelqdLIMupNZMayewvZ1lC1fMw= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Message-ID: <0100017a81cbeb7d-a5ff6a8d-56ed-4657-8e7e-1758b859fdff-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 16:27:42 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: barryleiba@computer.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.07-54.240.48.94 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Secdir Last Call review of -24 by Barry Leiba X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:27:49 -0000 NETCONF WG, the SecDir review of the =E2=80=9Cssh-client-server=E2=80=9D = draft was posted to datatracker ~3 weeks ago, but somehow the WG = wasn=E2=80=99t CC-ed, or else I missed it ;) I=E2=80=99ve reproduced = the review below; the original is located here: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24-= secdir-lc-leiba-2021-06-15. Hi Barry thank you for your review! Barry> I see nothing of substance here to comment on, and only Barry> have two minor editorial comments. Excellent! :) Barry> In Section 2: Barry> The lists of algorithms are ordered such that, if multiple Barry> algorithms are permitted by the client, the algorithm that = appears Barry> first in its list that is also permitted by the server is used = for Barry> the SSH transport layer connection. Barry>=20 Barry> I found this a little awkward to read, and it also seems that Barry> the ordering is only significant for the client list, and not Barry> for the server list. May I suggest this minor re-wording?: Barry>=20 Barry> NEW Barry> The lists of permitted algorithms are in decreasing order of = usage Barry> preference. The algorithm that appears first in the client = list Barry> that also appears in the server list is the one that is used = for Barry> the SSH transport layer connection. Barry> END Replaced. And good catch. Barry> In =E2=80=9CSince the module in this document only define = groupings=E2=80=9D, Barry> make it =E2=80=9Cmodules=E2=80=9D, plural, to match =E2=80=9Cdefin= e=E2=80=9D (three instances). Another good catch, but I think the better fix is: OLD: Since the module in this document only define groupings, ... NEW: Since this module only define groupings, =E2=80=A6 Agreed? [and, yes, I patched all three instances of this construct] Kent // as author From nobody Wed Jul 7 09:45:38 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a81dc358e-7a272368-3503-4b34-80c8-49bafb6d8694-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E923A1E9A for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6NZTKWpvpzU7 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFFC53A1E99 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:45:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625676330; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=IO9StryemtAQD9zWNosrUA8XuM3PLZ9VS68BFPJk5Gw=; b=WvqylTGZ16tKfLdRRETouzpX5Vy/RvQKgN+WF+3wFUXS4IjuMpmg5T25qNyHFDTZ zoGanRjHps4khT7Vwp6D4BWrI6gfEviXJ4btp2yl2GPU3NygprNV26ATvXABef+xk1q WCQ2tHrKDxHwIW9x9Iv9xpOckCCrtNFy7YWbGq7k= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 16:45:30 +0000 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , Henk Birkholz , tom petch Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017a81dc358e-7a272368-3503-4b34-80c8-49bafb6d8694-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a5bdc371-b665451f-61d4-4364-9d55-e9369f3adc8e-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017a0aebfbf3-9e9c22e8-da12-4364-a572-8ce7fd43bf0f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <540b31e5-10a6-495f-cf44-820adb6213b3@sit.fraunhofer.de> <0100017a5987fa69-bb2b90f9-bdd5-44f7-935f-38c568121eeb-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.07-54.240.48.94 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] TLS 1.3 and pre-shared-keys and raw-public-keys (was: More complications) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:45:37 -0000 Hi Rob, As AD, please advise. Before the draft-submit window closes, should I: 1) post the suite of drafts with this open issue pending? 2) post the suite of drafts with support for pre-shared-keys and = raw-public-keys removed? 3) not post an update to these drafts? Regarding #2, I don=E2=80=99t think anyone in our WG cares about = pre-shared-keys or raw-public-keys. They were only added by request. I = appreciate us wanting these modules to be useful to groups other than = our own, it=E2=80=99s beginning to affect our ability to finish our = work. If the support is removed, it would be removed only in ietf-tls-* = drafts (not crypto-types, truststore, or keystore) and thus could be = easily added back in by a future effort or proprietary augmentations. K. // contributor=20 > On Jun 30, 2021, at 4:49 AM, tom petch wrote: >=20 > From: Kent Watsen > Sent: 29 June 2021 21:48 >=20 > [tweaking the Subject line] >=20 > Hi Henk, >=20 > I just realized that I never replied to your question below regarding = urgency. >=20 > It would be good to get a high-level response ASAP so that a = quick-patch can be made that will pass the eminent SecDir review. >=20 > A more thorough response would ideally be "ASAP" also, but it is the = case that this draft will remain open while a couple other drafts go = through WGLC, so the hard-stop window is a few weeks out yet. >=20 > > On IoT, there is an I-D on this=20 > draft-ietf-uta-tls13-iot-profile-01 > which looks comprehensive and includes a statement about a plain = PSK-based client but I am not clear that this covers the options. It = does cater for authentication by certificate followed by resumption with = PSK with warnings about early data (which may be strong enough for a = Security AD) but seems to skate over the case where no certificates are = involved, in particular it makes no reference to the two TLS I-D about = the use of PSK without certificates. My understanding is that you need = those two I-D to make PSK without certificates work and so the I-D is = incomplete. That apart, I think that it is the sort of TLS1.3 profile = that the TLS WG expects to see for every application that uses TLS1.3 = e.g Netconf must do something similar one day. >=20 > raw-public-keys are, to me, different, TLS1.3 simply treats them as = another kind of certificate (although the UTA I-D does not) and so does = not create similar issues. >=20 > Tom Petch >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Kent >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 15, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Henk Birkholz = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi all, >>=20 >> a fellow IETF'ler poked me to pay attention to this thread. Sorry for = the latency. >>=20 >> Hm - dropping PSK support for TLS 1.3 seems to be leaving a bunch of = implementations in the IoT space behind that are inching towards = migration, currently. >>=20 >> How urgent is this? I can certainly massage the current YANG module, = but (in theory) I am occupied by another SDO meeting this week. >>=20 >> Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, >>=20 >> Henk >>=20 >>=20 >> On 15.06.21 13:36, tom petch wrote: >>> From: Kent Watsen >>> Sent: 14 June 2021 15:27 >>> [CC-ing Henk, to whom a question is directed to below] >>> Hi Tom, >>>> Top posting a new and different issue. >>> Thanks for updating the subject line. >>>> server case psk references ServerKeyExchange and psk-identity-hint = neither of which exist in TLS1.3. The client sends an extension = PreSharedKeyExtension which contains a list of identities from which the = server selects one as selected-identity for which the identifier is = uint16 indexing into the client's list. RFC8446 s.4.2.11. >>>>=20 >>>> The client description also needs amending. >>>>=20 >>>> TLS1.2 was extended to use tickets in this area to aid session = resumption; these have now gone and been replaced by this extension. I = would not suggest adding support for tickets. >>>>=20 >>>> As I may have said before, TLS 1.3 is different. >>> Henk, could you help with these edits? Support for PSK and raw = public key were added to draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server per your = request and, if memory serves me, didn=E2=80=99t you help me with the = YANG update too? I suppose what is needed is a either a =E2=80=9Cchoice=E2= =80=9D statement (with cases for 1.2 and 1.3) *or* sibling-container = statements (in case it=E2=80=99s necessary both are configured in case, = e.g., the client sends one or the other)... >>> >>> Or else drop support for PSK with TLS1.3 at this time because too = little is known about it outside the use for HTTP. I am starting to see = I-D about how to use TLS1.3 with application X, even for HTTP, and I = think that such an I-D will be needed for many applications with or = without PSK. >>> Tom Petch >>>> Tom Petch >>> Kent >=20 From nobody Wed Jul 7 09:50:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CBB3A1EBC for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:50:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYt4aEQ7cSQ3 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com (mail-lf1-f52.google.com [209.85.167.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FD1F3A1EB5 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id p21so5437453lfj.13 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WXms/LVojg/nfxr6wlfwMXrIvnQSasv5zLmVZ1Iuz0A=; b=U/wqJ2/vlr9QMWyEYVKd/1zVkb4AevpyPufK1sSuStlGwVOov6dYqu9BAzEcGIYmfQ ZtnWK0M1VSgtBMKGEg1dq0mq1Rq5VaLYSn/n9z9n7rHr4SDPo30QWwDk9LAVc3VCQhUN rAJyOxAfstlbnme1yDHPuEhiESf3hwrEzYQ9T+tVqrJN+ArZasZSsdAB5CkVO39PBlLN Gq4z/ByHKTGCk4eey89bt6BspunSU+nZkUEVyNbYl5MYFwG+5HgjQIufvCM3qT4Yq6IE MftPBqqU/Bot2ClmaX1DWZxk3jC7FEGW7LPtUixSOms7FkuP0a3HfL0ekQmltSiSM5bn c2SQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531/fsEFa3LnYImyR5ha4DpXzAJ5CyC0d4dlmfQjyTGRaL7TNZMw rWYp5eKBnsJndIZNTb9wK+pA1CpoVsl/VQBZq49ccnHAHLU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw+082AQA/zBdKDuvhCv5IMXt3KFFIxQ1NUuwSTTtRZqaF1aIt1PWzv5cv45Ay7yBOFYs2HOBIx+vpN6ttXayI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:4026:: with SMTP id br38mr15985319lfb.123.1625676579248; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100017a81cbeb7d-a5ff6a8d-56ed-4657-8e7e-1758b859fdff-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017a81cbeb7d-a5ff6a8d-56ed-4657-8e7e-1758b859fdff-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:49:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Secdir Last Call review of -24 by Barry Leiba X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:50:04 -0000 All good, Ken, and thanks for addressing my comments. Barry On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:27 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > > NETCONF WG, the SecDir review of the =E2=80=9Cssh-client-server=E2=80=9D = draft was posted to datatracker ~3 weeks ago, but somehow the WG wasn=E2=80= =99t CC-ed, or else I missed it ;) I=E2=80=99ve reproduced the review bel= ow; the original is located here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-i= etf-netconf-ssh-client-server-24-secdir-lc-leiba-2021-06-15. > > > Hi Barry thank you for your review! > > Barry> I see nothing of substance here to comment on, and only > Barry> have two minor editorial comments. > > Excellent! :) > > > Barry> In Section 2: > Barry> The lists of algorithms are ordered such that, if multiple > Barry> algorithms are permitted by the client, the algorithm that appe= ars > Barry> first in its list that is also permitted by the server is used = for > Barry> the SSH transport layer connection. > Barry> > Barry> I found this a little awkward to read, and it also seems that > Barry> the ordering is only significant for the client list, and not > Barry> for the server list. May I suggest this minor re-wording?: > Barry> > Barry> NEW > Barry> The lists of permitted algorithms are in decreasing order of us= age > Barry> preference. The algorithm that appears first in the client lis= t > Barry> that also appears in the server list is the one that is used fo= r > Barry> the SSH transport layer connection. > Barry> END > > Replaced. And good catch. > > > Barry> In =E2=80=9CSince the module in this document only define grouping= s=E2=80=9D, > Barry> make it =E2=80=9Cmodules=E2=80=9D, plural, to match =E2=80=9Cdefi= ne=E2=80=9D (three instances). > > > Another good catch, but I think the better fix is: > > OLD: Since the module in this document only define groupings, ... > NEW: Since this module only define groupings, =E2=80=A6 > > Agreed? [and, yes, I patched all three instances of this construct] > > > Kent // as author > > > From nobody Wed Jul 7 11:44:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA29E3A243D; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 11:44:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162568344170.5284.17821202079725798867@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:44:01 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-05.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:44:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Conveying a Certificate Signing Request (CSR) in a Secure Zero Touch Provisioning (SZTP) Bootstrapping Request Authors : Kent Watsen Russ Housley Sean Turner Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-05.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2021-07-07 Abstract: This draft extends the "get-bootstrapping-data" RPC defined in RFC 8572 to include an optional certificate signing request (CSR), enabling a bootstrapping device to additionally obtain an identity certificate (e.g., an LDevID, from IEEE 802.1AR) as part of the "onboarding information" response provided in the RPC-reply. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-05.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 7 11:45:17 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a8249ae8c-9dddaf10-597b-41dd-9e00-6352d110c362-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D70D3A2440; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 11:45:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-tWbn9a1U45; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 11:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CB533A243E; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 11:45:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625683504; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=ZTR6NkUHIyMhE7+K+e0CLmDmgxWSFPvyb+KjpDtU0vw=; b=Udpw6+BYwZhFzy+rJ3oRAg/iaZ9nsiSoZlXyGtipLLHn1rj6WbSH4Ni0hgKR7eYY 5Hh/qtgU9oywFP4Qqfdv0/ygq1plFyy5uARNRf2N6JW+4ytopqsc+mOQVXzngiCiOSK gh8k4cLdLXNSPYmOWOWr3W/SPQVgx/xkub4awvZM= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017a8249ae8c-9dddaf10-597b-41dd-9e00-6352d110c362-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_69F0577B-5FEA-48B4-8588-C314C0D0124D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:45:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <0100017a67571569-f34e8df5-f018-4f08-ba46-5bd919b6d127-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.07-54.240.48.94 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] AD review of draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:45:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_69F0577B-5FEA-48B4-8588-C314C0D0124D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Rob, -05 just posted. More comments below. > So, I agree on moving back to =E2=80=9C400=E2=80=9D. Done! (commit = ) > BTW, one of my colleagues was looking at this draft, and couldn=E2=80=99= t immediately understand what it was for. Hence, would it be helpful to = add a sentence or two in the introduction to explain why having a signed = LDevID on the device is helpful? We (the authors) added this to the Introduction: (commit = ) The ability to provision an identity certificate that is = purpose-built=20 for a production environment during the bootstrapping = process removes reliance on the manufacturer CA, and it also enables = the bootstraped device to join the production environment with = an appropriate identity and other attributes in its LDevID=20 certificate. > Regards, > Rob K. // as co-author --Apple-Mail=_69F0577B-5FEA-48B4-8588-C314C0D0124D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Rob,

-05 just posted.   More = comments below.



So, I agree on moving back to = =E2=80=9C400=E2=80=9D.

Done!  (commit)


BTW, one of my colleagues was = looking at this draft, and couldn=E2=80=99t immediately understand what = it was for.  Hence, would it be helpful to add a sentence or two in = the introduction to explain why having a signed LDevID on the device is = helpful?

We (the authors) added this to the Introduction: = (commit)

            The = ability to provision an identity certificate that is = purpose-built 
          =   for a production environment during the bootstrapping = process
          =   removes reliance on the manufacturer CA, and it also = enables the
          =   bootstraped device to join the production environment = with an
          =   appropriate identity and other attributes in its = LDevID 
          =   certificate.


 Regards,
Rob

K.=  // as co-author


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([fe80::a85a:cb8b:2d73:5e12%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4308.021; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:29:48 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , Henk Birkholz , tom petch Thread-Topic: TLS 1.3 and pre-shared-keys and raw-public-keys (was: More complications) Thread-Index: AQHXbYzb4eDciFU2RE+Tnfvb6yRaK6s3w+QAgAARzAA= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:29:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100017980c49236-7975b99d-b591-4da2-a118-f6598517c4e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001798c0d947e-4d2d14f5-9f0e-450d-ac99-e18c260f0c2b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a0aa5d37-4810234e-8db2-434d-b8fa-780c1648955a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000179a5bdc371-b665451f-61d4-4364-9d55-e9369f3adc8e-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017a0aebfbf3-9e9c22e8-da12-4364-a572-8ce7fd43bf0f-000000@email.amazonses.com> <540b31e5-10a6-495f-cf44-820adb6213b3@sit.fraunhofer.de> <0100017a5987fa69-bb2b90f9-bdd5-44f7-935f-38c568121eeb-000000@email.amazonses.com> 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saOGeY/cuHD0hOXFlGk/hRSuMyDgJyQK/iPQEUM9euD/XKsPSkIMy6nFJufvxm70lh4dOpxoF2FaZbRmbpahog== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB3847 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] TLS 1.3 and pre-shared-keys and raw-public-keys (was: More complications) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:36:38 -0000 From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) =0A= Sent: 07 July 2021 20:29=0A= =0A= Hi Kent,=0A= =0A= I think that the short answer is (1).=0A= =0A= I've looked through the thread, but I'm not sure that I fully understand th= e implication of putting it in, or leaving it out.=0A= =0A= If this is something that will take a couple of weeks to resolve then I thi= nk that delaying a couple of extra weeks to get the structure right is okay= .=0A= =0A= But if this will take longer to sort out, and it can be easily added in usi= ng augmentations then I don't think that we should delay this work further,= even if it requires a bis in 6 months time.=0A= =0A= =0A= Rob=0A= =0A= I am the one who has done most of the upsetting of the apple cart here.=0A= =0A= FUD mostly but the IESG discussions on the EMU EAP I-D last January are an = example of how the differences in TLS1.3 cause unforeseen complications (an= d that I-D is not yet back with the IESG), while the recent TLS1.3 profile = for IoT=0A= draft-ietf-uta-tls13-iot-profile-01 =0A= goes into a lot of detail and is an example for me of what NETCONF (and oth= er protocols) will have to do some time; but that is likely a year off.=0A= =0A= Mostly, for me, it is about PSK with two TLS I-D thereon providing guidance= , such as restricting the use of any one PSK, and without PSK then I feel o= n much firmer ground. No PSK, means no resumption means no early data. UTA= have just published rfc7525bis which is more input into the use of TLS1.3.= It does not cover PSK adequately (IMHO) but does say avoid early data bec= ause it is insecure (which I find comforting).=0A= =0A= Originally I was concerned about raw public keys but then realised that TLS= treats them as a particular form of certificate and so require no special = treatment so my concern is mostly about PSK.=0A= =0A= HTH=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= Regards,=0A= Rob=0A= =0A= =0A= -----Original Message-----=0A= From: Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: 07 July 2021 17:46=0A= To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) =0A= Cc: netconf@ietf.org; Henk Birkholz ; tom = petch =0A= Subject: Re: TLS 1.3 and pre-shared-keys and raw-public-keys (was: More com= plications)=0A= =0A= Hi Rob,=0A= =0A= As AD, please advise. Before the draft-submit window closes, should I:=0A= =0A= 1) post the suite of drafts with this open issue pending?=0A= 2) post the suite of drafts with support for pre-shared-keys and raw-public= -keys removed?=0A= 3) not post an update to these drafts?=0A= =0A= Regarding #2, I don=92t think anyone in our WG cares about pre-shared-keys = or raw-public-keys. They were only added by request. I appreciate us want= ing these modules to be useful to groups other than our own, it=92s beginni= ng to affect our ability to finish our work. If the support is removed, it= would be removed only in ietf-tls-* drafts (not crypto-types, truststore, = or keystore) and thus could be easily added back in by a future effort or p= roprietary augmentations.=0A= =0A= K. // contributor=0A= =0A= =0A= > On Jun 30, 2021, at 4:49 AM, tom petch wrote:=0A= >=0A= > From: Kent Watsen =0A= > Sent: 29 June 2021 21:48=0A= >=0A= > [tweaking the Subject line]=0A= >=0A= > Hi Henk,=0A= >=0A= > I just realized that I never replied to your question below regarding urg= ency.=0A= >=0A= > It would be good to get a high-level response ASAP so that a quick-patch = can be made that will pass the eminent SecDir review.=0A= >=0A= > A more thorough response would ideally be "ASAP" also, but it is the case= that this draft will remain open while a couple other drafts go through WG= LC, so the hard-stop window is a few weeks out yet.=0A= >=0A= > =0A= > On IoT, there is an I-D on this=0A= > draft-ietf-uta-tls13-iot-profile-01=0A= > which looks comprehensive and includes a statement about a plain PSK-base= d client but I am not clear that this covers the options. It does cater fo= r authentication by certificate followed by resumption with PSK with warnin= gs about early data (which may be strong enough for a Security AD) but seem= s to skate over the case where no certificates are involved, in particular = it makes no reference to the two TLS I-D about the use of PSK without certi= ficates. My understanding is that you need those two I-D to make PSK witho= ut certificates work and so the I-D is incomplete. That apart, I think tha= t it is the sort of TLS1.3 profile that the TLS WG expects to see for every= application that uses TLS1.3 e.g Netconf must do something similar one day= .=0A= >=0A= > raw-public-keys are, to me, different, TLS1.3 simply treats them as anoth= er kind of certificate (although the UTA I-D does not) and so does not crea= te similar issues.=0A= >=0A= > Tom Petch=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Thanks,=0A= > Kent=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >> On Jun 15, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Henk Birkholz wrote:=0A= >>=0A= >> Hi all,=0A= >>=0A= >> a fellow IETF'ler poked me to pay attention to this thread. Sorry for th= e latency.=0A= >>=0A= >> Hm - dropping PSK support for TLS 1.3 seems to be leaving a bunch of imp= lementations in the IoT space behind that are inching towards migration, cu= rrently.=0A= >>=0A= >> How urgent is this? I can certainly massage the current YANG module, but= (in theory) I am occupied by another SDO meeting this week.=0A= >>=0A= >> Viele Gr=FC=DFe,=0A= >>=0A= >> Henk=0A= >>=0A= >>=0A= >> On 15.06.21 13:36, tom petch wrote:=0A= >>> From: Kent Watsen =0A= >>> Sent: 14 June 2021 15:27=0A= >>> [CC-ing Henk, to whom a question is directed to below]=0A= >>> Hi Tom,=0A= >>>> Top posting a new and different issue.=0A= >>> Thanks for updating the subject line.=0A= >>>> server case psk references ServerKeyExchange and psk-identity-hint nei= ther of which exist in TLS1.3. The client sends an extension PreSharedKeyE= xtension which contains a list of identities from which the server selects = one as selected-identity for which the identifier is uint16 indexing into t= he client's list. RFC8446 s.4.2.11.=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> The client description also needs amending.=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> TLS1.2 was extended to use tickets in this area to aid session resumpt= ion; these have now gone and been replaced by this extension. I would not = suggest adding support for tickets.=0A= >>>>=0A= >>>> As I may have said before, TLS 1.3 is different.=0A= >>> Henk, could you help with these edits? Support for PSK and raw public= key were added to draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server per your request an= d, if memory serves me, didn=92t you help me with the YANG update too? I = suppose what is needed is a either a =93choice=94 statement (with cases for= 1.2 and 1.3) *or* sibling-container statements (in case it=92s necessary b= oth are configured in case, e.g., the client sends one or the other)...=0A= >>> =0A= >>> Or else drop support for PSK with TLS1.3 at this time because too littl= e is known about it outside the use for HTTP. I am starting to see I-D abo= ut how to use TLS1.3 with application X, even for HTTP, and I think that s= uch an I-D will be needed for many applications with or without PSK.=0A= >>> Tom Petch=0A= >>>> Tom Petch=0A= >>> Kent=0A= >=0A= =0A= From nobody Thu Jul 8 11:50:30 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a8774e9a2-4bef02f8-3bd4-413d-9c75-f57e23c70a0f-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611E63A14D8; Thu, 8 Jul 2021 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lFySHASvY_Sx; Thu, 8 Jul 2021 11:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B7553A14D6; Thu, 8 Jul 2021 11:50:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1625770224; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=s5MnEVfaXKxt5zriU7Y8KZV5h/U2wM0EnS9Mv/DhvPo=; b=Aju42T/IiPmkVZptrLOpugwOw7H2tx6EG/J8hZxxp3KzOyDzeoYDeog78LBrtUuv qCL+sYgJI+oI851vVXQKntgQA75NiI0rMCBCFRtFwQO3y2Hmk6GBed1BWx0lyE0GNfg QoDuH9RjvA17nKKQxm9EY0R5SDOLbbzzImZfp1TA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <0100017a7e2cc558-bb17a877-08d6-410d-804e-8b12efb000e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 18:50:24 +0000 Cc: "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017a8774e9a2-4bef02f8-3bd4-413d-9c75-f57e23c70a0f-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> <0100017a7d3a2e1f-af85d7a6-9304-4e62-9fcb-785fae37004b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017a7e2cc558-bb17a877-08d6-410d-804e-8b12efb000e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.08-54.240.8.83 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] System capabilities versus augmenting-extensions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 18:50:29 -0000 I=E2=80=99m sure this must=E2=80=99ve been discussed before, but I=E2=80=99= m trying to understand the Pros/Cons of decorating a YANG-defined data = model using =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D vs =E2=80=9Caugmenting-in = extensions=E2=80=9D. For instance, assuming the =E2=80=9Cjukebox=E2=80=9D module from RFC = 8040: 1) Capabilities-based approach module example-foo { namespace =E2=80=9Chttp://example.com/ns/example-foo=E2=80=9D; prefix foo; import ietf-system-capabilities { prefix sysc; } augment "/sysc:system-capabilities/sysc:datastore-capabilities=E2=80=9D= + "/sysc:per-node-capabilities/sysc:node-selection/=E2=80=9C + "sysc:node-selector=E2=80=9D { leaf foobar { type empty; } } } Followed with the instance document: ds:operational = /jbox:jukebox/jbox:playlist/jbox:song 2) Augment-extension based approach module foo { namespace =E2=80=9Chttp://example.com/ns/example-foo=E2=80=9D; prefix foo; import ietf-system-capabilities { prefix sysc; } augment "/jbox:jukebox/jbox:playlist/jbox:song=E2=80=9D { leaf foobar { type empty; } } } Some differences I see: 1) =E2=80=9Caugments" are datastore-independent, whereas = =E2=80=9Ccapabilities" must be defined for each datastore. This could = be seen as =E2=80=9Cimportant=E2=80=9D or a =E2=80=9Cnuisance=E2=80=9D = depending on perspective. 2) =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D support model-independent (global) = values, but an =E2=80=9Caugmenting=E2=80=9D module can also define = global values. 3) =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D centralize where such values are = located, but consumers need to know what to look for, and so could just = as easily look for the =E2=80=9Caugmenting=E2=80=9D modules. 4) =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D are semantically about *capabilities*, = whereas augments may regard anything. When is each approach preferred? What =E2=80=9Cbest practice=E2=80=9D = statement can be made, and should it be made in the RFC? Assuming = datastore-independent, SHOULD augments be used, else capabilities SHOULD = be used? =20 K. From nobody Fri Jul 9 04:53:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98ED13A1E89; Fri, 9 Jul 2021 04:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.198, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73LmnmnjLzci; Fri, 9 Jul 2021 04:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr80051.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.8.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A3A63A1E88; 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Fri, 9 Jul 2021 11:53:28 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVs?= To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: System capabilities versus augmenting-extensions Thread-Index: AQHXdCokpUdLPi48fU2UKEZ6KwVPL6s6h0zQ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 11:53:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5c680eac-0622-b863-22e8-01b9e987f99c@huawei.com> <0100017a7d3a2e1f-af85d7a6-9304-4e62-9fcb-785fae37004b-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017a7e2cc558-bb17a877-08d6-410d-804e-8b12efb000e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017a8774e9a2-4bef02f8-3bd4-413d-9c75-f57e23c70a0f-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017a8774e9a2-4bef02f8-3bd4-413d-9c75-f57e23c70a0f-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: watsen.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;watsen.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 060b6f54-9a1a-49f9-d8ea-08d942d02aa2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM8PR07MB8145: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6108; 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_051F_01D774C9.CACB2B40" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM8PR07MB8230.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 060b6f54-9a1a-49f9-d8ea-08d942d02aa2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jul 2021 11:53:28.4676 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Qh+aPBS85wcidTUIoMdAgc24biBv/4GpkC1/OrI86PgMMioowdsCKebh/khOEfC0Ie3Ax17qIO77B0XR/Vz6yODPix+MPn5uFzNDuUXV204= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM8PR07MB8145 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] System capabilities versus augmenting-extensions X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2021 11:53:37 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_051F_01D774C9.CACB2B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Kent, I think the capabilities-based approach should be used if the data is a = meta-data about the model. It depends on what is foobar? - foobar is the release-date of the song: this is not meta-data, this is = one of the song's properties, so use augment - foobar is the set of access right needed to download the song, this is = more like meta-data: use capabilities. Also, if the same set of access = right can be defined on the datastore, system, album, or even individual = song level then capabilities are better. Sometimes what is real-data and what is meta-data is subjective, so I = don't know if there is a clear-cut rule. Regards Balazs -----Original Message----- From: Kent Watsen =20 Sent: 2021. j=C3=BAlius 8., cs=C3=BCt=C3=B6rt=C3=B6k 20:50 To: netconf@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities@ietf.org Subject: System capabilities versus augmenting-extensions I=E2=80=99m sure this must=E2=80=99ve been discussed before, but = I=E2=80=99m trying to understand the Pros/Cons of decorating a = YANG-defined data model using =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D vs = =E2=80=9Caugmenting-in extensions=E2=80=9D. For instance, assuming the =E2=80=9Cjukebox=E2=80=9D module from RFC = 8040: 1) Capabilities-based approach module example-foo { namespace =E2=80=9Chttp://example.com/ns/example-foo=E2=80=9D; prefix foo; import ietf-system-capabilities { prefix sysc; } augment "/sysc:system-capabilities/sysc:datastore-capabilities=E2=80=9D + "/sysc:per-node-capabilities/sysc:node-selection/=E2=80=9C + "sysc:node-selector=E2=80=9D { leaf foobar { type empty; } } } Followed with the instance document: ds:operational = /jbox:jukebox/jbox:playlist/jbox:song 2) Augment-extension based approach module foo { namespace =E2=80=9Chttp://example.com/ns/example-foo=E2=80=9D; prefix foo; import ietf-system-capabilities { prefix sysc; } augment "/jbox:jukebox/jbox:playlist/jbox:song=E2=80=9D { leaf foobar { type empty; } } } Some differences I see: 1) =E2=80=9Caugments" are datastore-independent, whereas = =E2=80=9Ccapabilities" must be defined for each datastore. This could = be seen as =E2=80=9Cimportant=E2=80=9D or a =E2=80=9Cnuisance=E2=80=9D = depending on perspective. 2) =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D support model-independent (global) = values, but an =E2=80=9Caugmenting=E2=80=9D module can also define = global values. 3) =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D centralize where such values are = located, but consumers need to know what to look for, and so could just = as easily look for the =E2=80=9Caugmenting=E2=80=9D modules. 4) =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D are semantically about *capabilities*, = whereas augments may regard anything. When is each approach preferred? What =E2=80=9Cbest practice=E2=80=9D = statement can be made, and should it be made in the RFC? Assuming = datastore-independent, SHOULD augments be used, else capabilities SHOULD = be used? =20 K. ------=_NextPart_000_051F_01D774C9.CACB2B40 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIR8jCCBTgw ggMgoAMCAQICEQCVvhag9y5G8Xs5gnL6i82WMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMDcxFDASBgNVBAoMC1Rl bGlhU29uZXJhMR8wHQYDVQQDDBZUZWxpYVNvbmVyYSBSb290IENBIHYxMB4XDTA3MTAxODEyMDA1 MFoXDTMyMTAxODEyMDA1MFowNzEUMBIGA1UECgwLVGVsaWFTb25lcmExHzAdBgNVBAMMFlRlbGlh U29uZXJhIFJvb3QgQ0EgdjEwggIiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4ICDwAwggIKAoICAQDCvusn8CGj 82kmVX6dxVUWkVz97yG/U4B6LdKRjGMx8Owk8MOl0nJ8EG30N7fl5nx56oy1gouuSLasANxldewq TV/Bh/UgZSuBqEc+iSOVMBaQf+hXB0jnGa6/RWexNxsGKv7e+ax9g/teuuSPl2e+S46NZAdXOFVp NDY9E0jvT+LTZh6kzxq3XjYz1LQGvRgB/XeEUABF9Yxd6CO8fv414e1Qe6kwjRnTCY5oZ12/PJcY U7spYsXKXnLBx5bU2y2gtB9pA+zq4lDxDDzwrPNTLfAc9e1sOTlzgBbIUrAjzeA+3N08R6C7NYri 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349DA3A0934; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 02:49:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <162608339317.28658.1271933091607746942@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 02:49:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:49:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : UDP-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions Authors : Guangying Zheng Tianran Zhou Thomas Graf Pierre Francois Paolo Lucente Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-03.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: This document describes an UDP-based notification mechanism to collect data from networking devices. A shim header is proposed to facilitate the data streaming directly from the publishing process on network processor of line cards to receivers. The objective is a lightweight approach to enable higher frequency and less performance impact on publisher and receiver process compared to already established notification mechanisms. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-03 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 13 14:39:21 2021 Return-Path: <0100017aa1cf45dc-a866c7ef-b6bb-4c6f-94a1-7ff4ece3beba-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8A53A123E; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:39:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iLDsL8o0FJ_l; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 437723A1235; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:39:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1626212353; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=kFc89wszrUThL4zTM7yytqY+S46Nyq02ECl2CV5Zr0w=; b=EGbB0cOoTHhNA3nYKUnLbLsyc2aMDcRcfiht3oyzmui6qIPaI/WIgt8Jcnsqt/49 3gOgXaBDlI9JTjzvdd2jt9opCOMbKwB0tY088L2Qt2nbPoBf/hxcxRv+kufvi1eWqnT gBqfuSWDUmZ6WRzsR8lAIOoAI/ca90NBzNTJgVNE= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Message-ID: <0100017aa1cf45dc-a866c7ef-b6bb-4c6f-94a1-7ff4ece3beba-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:39:13 +0000 Cc: "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.13-54.240.48.92 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Draft NETCONF agent posted for IETF 111 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:39:20 -0000 Please let alert the chairs (CC-ed) if anything needs to be adjusted. Kent and Mahesh Agenda for the NETCONF 111 WG Session ------------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/materials/agenda-111-netconf Session: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 Session II (21:30-22:30 UTC, 17:30-18:30 EDT, 14:30-15:30 PDT) WG Chairs: Mahesh Jethanandani (mjethanandani at gmail dot com) Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) Available During Session: ICS: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/sessions/netconf.ics MeetEcho: = https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf111/?group=3Dnetconf Jabber: xmpp:netconf@jabber.ietf.org?join Available During and After Session: CodiMD: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-111-netconf Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/session/netconf Drafts (TGZ): = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda/netconf-drafts.tgz Drafts (PDF): = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda/netconf-drafts.pdf Available After Session: Recording: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf111/recordings#NETCONF Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/netconf Introduction Chairs (10 minutes) Session Intro & WG Status Chartered items: An HTTPS-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions (10 min) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif Discussion Leader: Mahesh Jethanandani Non-Chartered items: System Configuration Data Handling Behavior (10 min) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ma-netconf-with-system Discussion Leader: Qiufang Ma Telemetry Data Export capability (10 mins) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilitie= s Discussion Leader: Qiufang Ma Per-Node Capabilities for Optimum Operational Data Collection (10 = min) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-claise-netconf-metadata-for-collect= ion Discussion Leader: Beno=C3=AEt Claise Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notification (10 mins) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription Discussion Leader: Peng Liu From nobody Mon Jul 19 07:30:32 2021 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=?us-ascii?Q?GjkCh4CMQuR6AL7yEF1DbZ/R4Un6H7oCp7Yr6oVP46WwLdImpDQHwEOkaQwV?= =?us-ascii?Q?Stm/o983a5TC9H7w6cdpE+OpU2jpnuaDJ1v+s02OYRx7va12e5Z25lyNvPco?= =?us-ascii?Q?T7Cxu3/TzEdk+DeP57w0feCUlia4i5Rwazjx8Vkgv60arYbex7hyXpc7BT+w?= =?us-ascii?Q?SpUGPwUEDQrDEWYTW/lVIMIU?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: siemens.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM0PR10MB2418.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 87cf9c09-9336-4bf1-cbaf-08d94b78b1a9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jul 2021 12:19:59.7610 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: V9Ti5V76p9Ep0BeXv71N93pZHqQC2yOjGD/8Zh2joEou8hYzcz3c2tmQAjp4BmB7Cf8tFfkoPude833JNdaQF+7/5jsy6/Az3cgmNGyZsIg= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM8PR10MB4113 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Reuse of SZTP-CSR YANG definition in BRSKI-AE X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:20:07 -0000 Kent, Russ, Sean I was not involved in the discussion of reusing the Yang Module in BRSKI-AE= some weeks back. But we would like to use the momentum that draft-ietf-net= conf-sztp-csr is currently opened for editing for CMP specific corrections = in the YANG module ietf-sztp-csr for brining up this discussion again. In BRSKI-AE (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-= enroll/) we address a use case in which we use a signature wrapped CSR, for= which we would like to re-use the existing YANG definition in SZTP (see al= so the discussion in the thread https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netco= nf/AFFqdeYJll9IndkQfT6scXWct6U/) As BRSKI-AE currently only utilize the CSR type part without the SZTP boot= strapping server information, it would be advantageous for BRSKI-AE (for ge= neral applicability) to extract the CSR types into a separate YANG module, = which could be imported by the YANG module ietf-sztp-csr and can be re-used= also by BRSKI-AE. This would avoid a potential protocol specific definitio= n of CSR types for SZTP and BRSKI-AE with most likely the same content. In = addition, while BRSKI-AE currently only utilizes P10, it would open the pos= sibility to also utilize other certification request types in the future. We would like to ask if you see an opportunity for this change (separate ie= tf-csr-types YANG module as part of draft-ietf-sztp-csr) at this point in t= ime. Hendrik Siemens AG Technology Research in Digitalization and Automation Security Architecture T RDA CST SEA-DE Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 Muenchen, Germany=20 Tel.: +49 89 7805-22411 Fax: +49 89 7805-29116 Mobile: +49 174 1517765 mailto:hendrik.brockhaus@siemens.com www.siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Jim Hagemann= Snabe; Managing Board: Roland Busch, Chairman, President and Chief Executi= ve Officer; Cedrik Neike, Matthias Rebellius, Ralf P. Thomas, Judith Wiese;= Registered offices: Berlin and Munich, Germany; Commercial registries: Ber= lin-Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, Munich, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-No. DE 23691322 From nobody Tue Jul 20 06:55:53 2021 Return-Path: <0100017ac43379a3-590ea64e-9c48-4f32-b0b6-1b28ced2c907-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C853A23A7; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:55:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Utl8TD6NAbv8; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CCD03A23A6; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:55:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1626789345; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=/IeS5FTqIcfKDm4rTBXZmXQwa1qCuxA64jvHUCmdSZg=; b=XLby/XTN1djYfi2gD4gtCA5BSVhw/PcW6Uhgb/qRpUyIrVbQvOUEoErQ0k8Yqrs9 YiD3d37r7CsEXsHoHPqaqqh8UHaPVArTK5TDpIhPJU3RmgVP/yB6cB1HtEdqe0LZAaM AwNhDur5MeAZ5L+EB2pvrJYqiPZEaQZBufUOenGI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:55:45 +0000 Cc: "draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson , "steffen.fries@siemens.com" , "Werner, Thomas" , David.von.Oheimb@siemens.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017ac43379a3-590ea64e-9c48-4f32-b0b6-1b28ced2c907-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: "Brockhaus, Hendrik" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.20-54.240.48.93 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Reuse of SZTP-CSR YANG definition in BRSKI-AE X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:55:52 -0000 Hi Hendrik, et. al., The other matter is under AD review as well. I=E2=80=99m currently = waiting to see the final text in the SZTP-CSR draft (thank you, and = David too, CC-ed). Once the dust settles there, I=E2=80=99ll look at = what can be done. At a minimum, there seems to be an opportunity to = move, to typedefs for =E2=80=9Ccmc=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ccmp=E2=80=9D to = the "ietf-crypto-types=E2=80=9D module. Kent // co-author of both drafts =E2=80=9Csztp-csr=E2=80=9D and = "crypto-types=E2=80=9D > On Jul 20, 2021, at 8:19 AM, Brockhaus, Hendrik = wrote: >=20 > Kent, Russ, Sean >=20 > I was not involved in the discussion of reusing the Yang Module in = BRSKI-AE some weeks back. But we would like to use the momentum that = draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr is currently opened for editing for CMP = specific corrections in the YANG module ietf-sztp-csr for brining up = this discussion again. >=20 > In BRSKI-AE = (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll/) = we address a use case in which we use a signature wrapped CSR, for which = we would like to re-use the existing YANG definition in SZTP (see also = the discussion in the thread = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/AFFqdeYJll9IndkQfT6scXWct6U/= ) > As BRSKI-AE currently only utilize the CSR type part without the SZTP = bootstrapping server information, it would be advantageous for BRSKI-AE = (for general applicability) to extract the CSR types into a separate = YANG module, which could be imported by the YANG module ietf-sztp-csr = and can be re-used also by BRSKI-AE. This would avoid a potential = protocol specific definition of CSR types for SZTP and BRSKI-AE with = most likely the same content. In addition, while BRSKI-AE currently only = utilizes P10, it would open the possibility to also utilize other = certification request types in the future. > We would like to ask if you see an opportunity for this change = (separate ietf-csr-types YANG module as part of draft-ietf-sztp-csr) at = this point in time. >=20 > Hendrik >=20 > Siemens AG > Technology > Research in Digitalization and Automation > Security Architecture > T RDA CST SEA-DE > Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 > 81739 Muenchen, Germany=20 > Tel.: +49 89 7805-22411 > Fax: +49 89 7805-29116 > Mobile: +49 174 1517765 > mailto:hendrik.brockhaus@siemens.com >=20 > www.siemens.com >=20 > Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Jim = Hagemann Snabe; Managing Board: Roland Busch, Chairman, President and = Chief Executive Officer; Cedrik Neike, Matthias Rebellius, Ralf P. = Thomas, Judith Wiese; Registered offices: Berlin and Munich, Germany; = Commercial registries: Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, Munich, HRB = 6684; WEEE-Reg.-No. DE 23691322 From nobody Tue Jul 20 09:31:54 2021 Return-Path: <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF333A28EE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 09:31:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rDUgwFiecGvQ for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 09:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14BF13A28F0 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 09:31:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1626798705; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=pfgQwhC0nfTXvKjWLCWX4h16HnvtWEEI/w+QewHwNDI=; b=OPMS+hADUIsglhXWgLGchzrbRcyPf9x0vCD8vkNNQtGD9u33Av2ho1EYT33s1+sU gumQtHjlpgzRdayZUsORgXwovgf6ieE/JJqlmV3PW0CGlI4iZ5gnk5AwFKU4DIcCGXc w4llcySHaqu7gzIEvQBKO9MpW72SLVlbU5uvCX7Q= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DE2DB0ED-A9B7-482F-9D93-15A7603D580C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:31:44 +0000 In-Reply-To: <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Mahesh Jethanandani , Qin Wu , "netconf@ietf.org" To: "maqiufang (A)" References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.20-54.240.48.94 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:31:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DE2DB0ED-A9B7-482F-9D93-15A7603D580C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Rob and Qiufang, > On Jul 20, 2021, at 6:15 AM, maqiufang (A) = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Rob, > =20 > Please see my reply inline. > From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 10:30 PM > To: maqiufang (A) ; Mahesh Jethanandani = ; Qin Wu ; Kent Watsen = > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms > =20 > Hi, > =20 > I think that it would be good if we could somehow get to a conclusion = on this thread, so that we are able to progress = draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif. > =20 > =20 > (1) My first question is whether we definitely need a dynamic = mechanism to discover an HTTPS receiver=E2=80=99s capabilities? > =20 > I would have thought that in most cases, the management entity = configuring the subscription would also know what format the receiver is = able to handle those notifications. Given that there are two solutions = on how to handle to share this dynamic receiver encoding parameters, I = assume that there is a demand and use case for this, but I can also see = an argument that any such mechanism should be optional to implement and = the mechanism being lightweight seems like a benefit. The issue goes back to RFC 8639 (Subscription to YANG Notifications) = where the =E2=80=9Cencoding=E2=80=9D leaf is left optional in case other = solutions exist. Having the inband negotiation is mostly for = deployment flexibility. > (2) Regarding the capability mechanism in = draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif: > This mechanism looks pretty lightweight to me. I did have a couple of = questions though. > (i) Did you consider using rfc8791 to define the = receiver-capabilities? This could allow it to be put into a YANG = module, which could also easily allow the information to be made = available a YANG instance data document, allowing it to be used for = offline purposes. No, we didn=E2=80=99t consider using an sx:structure, but that would be = okay (IMO) as it doesn=E2=80=99t imply at all that the Receiver is a = =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D. Good suggestion. That said, I=E2=80=99m = unsure how an sx:structure would appear in a "YANG instance data = document=E2=80=9D, or any configuration or state data tree for that = matter. > (ii) I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities. I guess that this = would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA = maintained registry of capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of = YANG identities that would be automatically updated by IANA whenever a = new capability is added to the registry. E.g., following the approach = for say for iana-routing-types YANG Module = I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed. It = seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA = registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be = scoped by their modules. The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the = =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce for custom (non-standard) = capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting = IANA out of having to maintain a registry of any kind. =20 > (3) After reading draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities and this = thread, I=E2=80=99m still somewhat struggling to understand exactly = where/how the YANG module that this draft defines would be used: > =20 > (i) I can see how it can be used to provide = additional information about what capabilities a server (i.e., = publisher) supports, and it leverages = draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities. I can see how it can be = used to export server capabilities to a management client either via = regular NETCONF/RESTCONF requests or as an offline YANG instance data = file. However, this is not documenting the capabilities that the = receiver can handle, but instead is only documenting what encodings a = server is capable of encoding the notifications in. > [Qiufang Ma] As you said, we originally focus on exposing server = capabilities to a management client via NETCONF/RESTCONF message = exchange. We also investigate how server capabilities can be advertised = using offline yang instance data file and how client capability can be = learnt using offline yang instance data file. Based on our analysis, it = looks the client capability discovery lacks a good use case. Therefore = we decide to focus only on server capability discovery in = draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities. If https-notif does have a = requirement for discovering the capabilities that the receiver can = handle, we leave it to https-notif draft to define. > =20 > (ii) But Qin=E2=80=99s example suggests that the same = YANG module could be used by a receiver to advertise the receiver = capabilities encoded as a YANG instance data document. Making the = receive capabilities available in an offline format is potentially = helpful but using the same instance data format during a dynamic = exchange seems a bit more complex, and if it was receiving the full = capabilities from a receiver (e.g., if the receiver was a = NETCONF/RESTCONF server) then this could end up being a much larger file = compared with the approach proposed in draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif. > [Qiufang Ma] As we clarified above, we think = draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities focuses on server capability = fetching rather than client capability fetching. > Therefore we believe https-notif looks into different use case. But = for UDP-notif and other potential transport protocols, they can use = NETCONF/RESTCONF protocol fetch transport related capabilities. > Comparing client capability fetching mechanism in the https-notif with = server capability fetching defined in = draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities doesn't make sense, agreed? > =20 > (4) There is a question about whether these capabilities should be = defined on a per transport basis, or generically, agnostic to the = transport mechanism. My instincts here are that not all capabilities = will necessarily be supported by all transports, nor do I think that = there will either be that many transports nor that many capabilities. = This would seem to suggest that defining these on a per transport basis = probably isn=E2=80=99t likely to be a problem. > [Qiufang Ma] Based on capability fetching discussion on this thread, = we believe the agreement is we should focus on a common data model = rather than common protocol. > In addition, all capabilities are optional attributes, for some = capabilities, we define it as empty type, therefore you don't need to = specify all capabilities for each transport. > if https-notif doesn't require any server capabilities to be fetched, = that is fine. The model proposed in this draft works for other server = capabilities advertisement cases, e.g., UDP-Notif, YANG Notifications = defined in RFC8639, RFC8641. > Hopefully this clarifies.J Reading all of Rob=E2=80=99s and Qiufang=E2=80=99s comments above, it = seems that we=E2=80=99ve gotten the point where the scales are tipping = towards https-notif NOT using the "YANG instance data document=E2=80=9D = structure to encode a =E2=80=9Csystem-capabilities=E2=80=9D node having = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D augmentations. Yes? Thank you Qiufang for taking the time help us understand the proposal = fully. I think that it is fair to say that we understand that the = =E2=80=9Copportunity=E2=80=9D exists, but the extra complexity seems = unnecessary for the very limited use-case in mind here. Kent // contributor > =20 > Best Regards, > Qiufang Ma > =20 > Trying to close this issue during the NETCONF session (or even over = email beforehand) would be great. > =20 > Regards, > Rob --Apple-Mail=_DE2DB0ED-A9B7-482F-9D93-15A7603D580C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Rob and Qiufang,


On Jul = 20, 2021, at 6:15 AM, maqiufang (A) <maqiufang1@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi, Rob,

 

Please see my reply inline.

From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 10:30 PM
To: maqiufang (A) <maqiufang1@huawei.com>; Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>; Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; = Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [netconf] Capability-fetching = mechanisms

 

Hi,

 

I think that it would be good if we = could somehow get to a conclusion on this thread, so that we are able to progress draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif.

 

 

(1) My first question is whether we = definitely need a dynamic mechanism to discover an HTTPS receiver=E2=80=99= s capabilities?

 

I would have thought that in most = cases, the management entity configuring the subscription would also = know what format the receiver is able to handle those notifications.  = Given that there are two solutions on how to handle to share this = dynamic receiver encoding parameters, I assume that there is a demand = and use case for this, but I can also see an argument that any such mechanism should be optional to implement and the mechanism = being lightweight seems like a = benefit.


The issue goes back to RFC 8639 (Subscription = to YANG Notifications) where the =E2=80=9Cencoding=E2=80=9D leaf is left = optional in case other solutions exist.   Having the inband negotiation is mostly for deployment = flexibility.


 (2) Regarding the capability mechanism in = draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif:

This mechanism looks pretty = lightweight to me.  I did have a couple of questions though.

(i)          &nb= sp;       Did you consider using rfc8791 to = define the receiver-capabilities?  This could allow it to be put = into a YANG module, which could also easily allow the information to be made available a YANG = instance data document, allowing it to be used for offline = purposes.


No, we didn=E2=80=99t consider using an = sx:structure, but that would be okay (IMO) as it doesn=E2=80=99t imply = at all that the Receiver is a =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D.   Good = suggestion.  That said, I=E2=80=99m unsure how an sx:structure = would appear in a "YANG instance data document=E2=80=9D, or any = configuration or state data tree for that matter.


(ii)          &nb= sp;     I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used = inet:uri=E2=80=99s for the capabilities rather than YANG = identities.  I guess that this would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of = capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that = would be automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is = added to the registry.  E.g., following the approach for say for iana-routing-types YANG = Module


I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was = ever discussed.  It seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, would = NOT require an IANA registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on = the wire) would be scoped by their modules.   The only = =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce = for custom (non-standard) capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem = meaningful relative to getting IANA out of having to maintain a registry = of any kind.

 

(3) After reading = draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities and this thread, I=E2=80=99m = still somewhat struggling to understand exactly where/how the YANG module that this draft defines = would be used:

 

(i)          &nb= sp;       I can see how it can be used to = provide additional information about what capabilities a server (i.e., = publisher) supports, and it leverages draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities.  I = can see how it can be used to export server capabilities to a management = client either via regular NETCONF/RESTCONF requests or as an offline = YANG instance data file.  However, this is not documenting the capabilities that the receiver can handle, but instead is only = documenting what encodings a server is capable of encoding the = notifications in.

[Qiufang Ma] As you = said, we originally focus on exposing server capabilities to a = management client via NETCONF/RESTCONF message exchange. We also investigate how server capabilities can be = advertised using offline yang instance data file and how client = capability can be learnt using offline yang instance data file. Based on = our analysis, it looks the client capability discovery lacks a good use case. Therefore we decide to focus only on server = capability discovery in draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities. If = https-notif does have a requirement for discovering the capabilities = that the receiver can handle, we leave it to https-notif draft to define.

 

(ii)          &nb= sp;     But Qin=E2=80=99s example suggests = that the same YANG module could be used by a receiver to advertise the = receiver capabilities encoded as a YANG instance data document.  Making the receive capabilities = available in an offline format is potentially helpful but using the same = instance data format during a dynamic exchange seems a bit more complex, = and if it was receiving the full capabilities from a receiver (e.g., if the receiver was a NETCONF/RESTCONF server) = then this could end up being a much larger file compared with the = approach proposed in draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif.

[Qiufang Ma] As we = clarified above, we think draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities = focuses on server capability fetching rather than client capability fetching.

Therefore we believe = https-notif looks into different use case. But for UDP-notif and other = potential transport protocols, they can use NETCONF/RESTCONF protocol fetch transport = related capabilities.

Comparing client = capability fetching mechanism in the https-notif with server capability = fetching defined in draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities doesn't make sense, agreed?

 

(4) There is a question about whether = these capabilities should be defined on a per transport basis, or = generically, agnostic to the transport mechanism.  My instincts here are that = not all capabilities will necessarily be supported by all transports, = nor do I think that there will either be that many transports nor that = many capabilities.  This would seem to suggest that defining these on a per transport basis probably isn=E2=80=99t likely = to be a problem.

[Qiufang Ma] Based on = capability fetching discussion on this thread, we believe the agreement = is we should focus on a common data model rather than common protocol.

In addition, all = capabilities are optional attributes, for some capabilities, we define = it as empty type, therefore you don't need to specify all capabilities for each transport.

if https-notif doesn't = require any server capabilities to be fetched, that is fine. The model = proposed in this draft works for other server capabilities advertisement cases, e.g., = UDP-Notif, YANG Notifications defined in RFC8639, RFC8641.

Hopefully this = clarifies.J



Reading all of Rob=E2=80=99= s and Qiufang=E2=80=99s comments above, it seems that we=E2=80=99ve = gotten the point where the scales are tipping towards https-notif NOT = using the "YANG instance data document=E2=80=9D structure to encode a = =E2=80=9Csystem-capabilities=E2=80=9D node having = "data-export-capabilities=E2=80=9D augmentations. =  Yes?

Thank you Qiufang = for taking the time help us understand the proposal fully.  I think = that it is fair to say that we understand that the =E2=80=9Copportunity=E2= =80=9D exists, but the extra complexity seems unnecessary for the very = limited use-case in mind here.

Kent // = contributor


 

Best Regards,

Qiufang = Ma

 

Trying to close this issue during the = NETCONF session (or even over email beforehand) would be great.

 

Regards,

Rob




= --Apple-Mail=_DE2DB0ED-A9B7-482F-9D93-15A7603D580C-- From nobody Tue Jul 20 14:11:48 2021 Return-Path: <0100017ac5c2863a-6aa394e6-cf61-44e0-a572-cf379a60ea9b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC3B3A324C for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13kqZZNgFXeo for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 656CD3A3249 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1626815497; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=2ABBgRXF2R/Wvqh9OlcdbRE8JxPGL9w+3LlrxkyiD/A=; b=Tx+y31S+IpjcWGa3qd+1am856U2OBDZg17IKE7DaVB+DtORT7yBw3yH56d+8fCWO AfWJufr2mDxne+X1ObtAnUlzjq7lKWuzGn+xWuvmlwk0CDrDG/x2Rvq47ssEQFheZQD guMwhs9sx8DARL8kOx1R3laxwLJhWhYACa0KIMvk= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Message-ID: <0100017ac5c2863a-6aa394e6-cf61-44e0-a572-cf379a60ea9b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:11:37 +0000 To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.20-54.240.48.94 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] The 111 Agenda has been updated X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:11:44 -0000 The NETMOD Agenda has been updated. The update is the removal of the = slot for "draft-ma-netconf-with-system=E2=80=9D, which has moved to = NETMOD. As you may recall, this is the draft that has been discussed on = the NETMOD list the last several days. The new/complete agenda is: Agenda for the NETCONF 111 WG Session ------------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/materials/agenda-111-netconf Session: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 Session II (21:30-22:30 UTC, 17:30-18:30 EDT, 14:30-15:30 PDT) WG Chairs: Mahesh Jethanandani (mjethanandani at gmail dot com) Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) Available During Session: ICS: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/sessions/netconf.ics MeetEcho: = https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf111/?group=3Dnetconf Available During and After Session: CodiMD: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-111-netconf Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/session/netconf Drafts (TGZ): = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda/netconf-drafts.tgz Drafts (PDF): = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda/netconf-drafts.pdf Available After Session: Recording: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf111/recordings#NETCONF Introduction Chairs (10 minutes) Session Intro & WG Status Chartered items: An HTTPS-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions (20 min) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif Discussion Leader: Mahesh Jethanandani Non-Chartered items: Telemetry Data Export capability (10 mins) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilitie= s Discussion Leader: Qiufang Ma Per-Node Capabilities for Optimum Operational Data Collection (10 = min) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-claise-netconf-metadata-for-collect= ion Discussion Leader: Beno=C3=AEt Claise Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notification (10 mins) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription Discussion Leader: Peng Liu From nobody Wed Jul 21 02:23:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34BA73A0C55; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:23:46 -0700 (PDT) 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Watson Ladd Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 22:54:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Secdir last call partial review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-25 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 05:54:49 -0000 Review is partially done. Another assignment may be needed to complete it. Reviewer: Watson Ladd Review result: Ready Dear readers, Forgive my completing this review almost a month late. I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. The summary of the review is ready, because I can't find anything wrong with it. Your comfort with this fact should be minimal. Benjamin Kaduk writes me to inform you that the issues with the PSK in TLS 1.3 are being worked on. And now on to my evaluation of the document. The problem is that I can't evaluate this in any substantive way: it is a whole bunch of YANG, a technology I am completely ignorant of. The few English sentences I saw looked fine, and I didn't spot anything wrong, but I likely wouldn't have. Sincerely, Watson Ladd From nobody Thu Jul 22 01:36:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70193A3E04 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 01:36:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ODK-xYSdZfwN for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb29.google.com (mail-yb1-xb29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42AA13A3E01 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb29.google.com with SMTP id c16so352514ybl.9 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=u3rDAAL7sKuDgNWIyYocOFUCbvfBH99X3vFQBiEVHJo=; b=ASLkHPIaEgqYXP/6+GkW46cjgOhISDmFVjxvbRbgE4xN9BNYrapp0WKKMeq34RL0E2 +hg/LV5z0IUOTshBe8ljX9wS061hyPRWeSHy2TpMcMbsrhKRTRZ/49zVxPfZWZDtRNKo o4nIMp2yLQMsG1a29gOWuMtSQ9wASBLhrXmn9UCmlhXSQBjxUagJmTjNW6pnO/pNVbm9 NH1H1ONpGweOz6iLrjMGyg4NDdkCt7vgAf5eAqzVprcfv/69FMD1a6N4mtfasYcGhQyS WEAlkrHCYdCRAh0Xta3qGofuwvyPNv3dQW26cck0Y7qBmgJdGXPczV5aod+pOvaCQOaL V4jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=u3rDAAL7sKuDgNWIyYocOFUCbvfBH99X3vFQBiEVHJo=; b=jS8B5WSEh5hkHh9URpwJ1HNDs3SpCB2u/AVgNpXsJVjRYjEXXwzgkip6RtEbNp/aXA mfNDURptEOz0mZbxhydi8e1tVOtlvU+IxfcJhae2oyyHQDFJ5gEaxt/sksJsM85JZrIM 85XjMp9FM+fLQN1KtnOIg6w5peVECsO+EomAsQEpvYhqyytn+NDz5+wnZ0MLk9Lr5QFc GOuCvvveV4O+GC30IVYG1glllxk46SoaCg28Ay3NpLciY+moCHSkPdfBvLNKlVpQMh+f CYh3j68r1h17i3WcTyPIBq9WUFVpzC/KLr6MVcQxQw4jjnZWRUXdgEBX8b9HIm7z2bJm iYZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530C6SvXi0MhTL4WqAsdPeTN+huLAO8s0uUftwCPyrgvZEowg7Gl pdzGKp+eeDKxZb4TbnxBJ0Zj8nTepDXRkv9t3I0mPNikRYE1rg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzlgWVfcTBZlAzt6DtevURV1DRGv3ROlvzRfJpNXtV9/v7pMi/mkdt81TNeUgMSfZsD+7hohBa5aaqNVYlIRDI= X-Received: by 2002:a25:b8d:: with SMTP id 135mr54345599ybl.12.1626942968288; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 01:36:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Pierre Francois Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:35:58 +0200 Message-ID: To: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b1da3f05c7b22dd0" Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Upcoming updates to draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 08:36:17 -0000 --000000000000b1da3f05c7b22dd0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello everyone, The changes brought to -03 followed feedback received from the group: -- Added a private encoding option to allow for more verbose private encoding description than what can be done in the ET Field. -- Security section We say this transport is not secure and alternative solutions should be defined elsewhere so as to have a secure version of udp transport provided by the IETF. Note: One option could be draft-unyte-udp-notif-dtls, but we are not mandating one particular solution in this draft. We are suggesting the following changes in a -04 to be submitted once the group agrees: --IANA Section Create IANA pools for Option type numbers and standard encoding type numbers, and request values for the types already listed in the draft. Once done, we could ping IANA to have an early allocation so that we could release the collector code using the right values, and the Wireshark dissector being developed could be merged into their main branch. -- Update yang model Adding segmentation configuration and maximum segment sizes. Currently, only fragmentation configuration is supported. IMHO, the -04 will be the version to be last called, but let's see how it goes :) Regards, Pierre. --000000000000b1da3f05c7b22dd0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello everyone,=C2=A0

The chang= es brought to -03 followed feedback received from the group:

=
-- Added a private encoding option to allow for more verbos= e private
encoding description than what can be done in the ET Fi= eld.

-- Security section
We say this tra= nsport is not secure and alternative solutions should be defined elsewhere = so as to have a secure version of udp transport provided by the IETF.=C2=A0=
Note: One option could be draft-unyte-udp-notif-dtls, but = we are not mandating one particular solution in this draft.=C2=A0

We are suggesting the following changes in a -04 to be subm= itted once the group agrees:

--IANA Secti= on

Create IANA pools for Option type numbers and s= tandard encoding type numbers, and request values for the types already lis= ted in the draft.

Once done, we could ping IA= NA to have an early allocation so that we could release the collector code = using the right values, and the Wireshark dissector being developed could b= e merged into their main branch.=C2=A0

-- Up= date yang model
Adding segmentation configuration and maximum= segment sizes.
Currently, only fragmentation configuration is su= pported.

IMHO, the -04 will be the version to = be last called, but let's see how it goes :)

R= egards,=C2=A0

Pierre.=C2=A0


--000000000000b1da3f05c7b22dd0-- From nobody Thu Jul 22 04:29:39 2021 Return-Path: <0100017acdfa4846-8ddd1cdd-1d23-4c11-9916-646c90ac551b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1129C3A42E5 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:29:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bo4sH6nIcIT6 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-110.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 441063A42E3 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:29:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1626953369; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=dHPUmbMAbEtTBeswF/psEtIv9mk4y1/oUiqzAymAnFk=; b=ZLmvdpEWxzFHts9zZzY3k8P9FOVbcH4O3BJFTLOgzHUn9oO9fM/880yYa4RRCB4m pqt7Y/8Ru/MR+c4EWLnQbhni5DIUv28AzOL5AzYXso0GIkcih5YyZQAEAPbCT3/y9YU TBvi2CUOS08Ai0iOHRXfdEXWoPFLaJMJC7kYCuOI= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017acdfa4846-8ddd1cdd-1d23-4c11-9916-646c90ac551b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3F8554A5-C4A7-4DE9-B856-D9A903F733BD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:29:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" To: Pierre Francois References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.07.22-54.240.48.110 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Upcoming updates to draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:29:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3F8554A5-C4A7-4DE9-B856-D9A903F733BD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thank you, Pierre. All, -03 was posted 10 days ago. Here=E2=80=99s the direct link: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-notif-03 = . More comments below. K. > On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:35 AM, Pierre Francois = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hello everyone,=20 >=20 > The changes brought to -03 followed feedback received from the group: >=20 > -- Added a private encoding option to allow for more verbose private > encoding description than what can be done in the ET Field. >=20 > -- Security section > We say this transport is not secure and alternative solutions should = be defined elsewhere so as to have a secure version of udp transport = provided by the IETF.=20 > Note: One option could be draft-unyte-udp-notif-dtls, but we are not = mandating one particular solution in this draft.=20 >=20 > We are suggesting the following changes in a -04 to be submitted once = the group agrees: >=20 > --IANA Section >=20 > Create IANA pools for Option type numbers and standard encoding type = numbers, and request values for the types already listed in the draft. There is a discussion going on in the "Capability-fetching mechanisms=E2=80= =9D thread regarding switching from using an IANA-defined registry to = using YANG identities. I would be good to understand the pros/cons of = each. Ultimately it comes down to 1) writing RFCs requesting IANA to = create new entries vs. 2) writing an RFC (or perhaps not) defining a = YANG module that defines an identity that derives off a base identity = defined in some new module (called, e.g., = "ietf-notif-transport-capabilites=E2=80=9D). =20 . K. > Once done, we could ping IANA to have an early allocation so that we = could release the collector code using the right values, and the = Wireshark dissector being developed could be merged into their main = branch.=20 >=20 > -- Update yang model > Adding segmentation configuration and maximum segment sizes. > Currently, only fragmentation configuration is supported. >=20 > IMHO, the -04 will be the version to be last called, but let's see how = it goes :) >=20 > Regards,=20 >=20 > Pierre.=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --Apple-Mail=_3F8554A5-C4A7-4DE9-B856-D9A903F733BD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thank= you, Pierre.

All, = -03 was posted 10 days ago.  Here=E2=80=99s the direct link: =  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-no= tif-03.

More= comments below.

K.


On Jul = 22, 2021, at 4:35 AM, Pierre Francois <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello everyone, 

The changes brought to -03 followed = feedback received from the group:

-- Added a private = encoding option to allow for more verbose private
encoding description than what can be done in the ET = Field.

-- = Security section
We say this transport is not = secure and alternative solutions should be defined elsewhere so as to = have a secure version of udp transport provided by the = IETF. 
Note: One option could be = draft-unyte-udp-notif-dtls, but we are not mandating one particular = solution in this draft. 

We are suggesting the following changes = in a -04 to be submitted once the group agrees:

--IANA = Section

Create = IANA pools for Option type numbers and standard encoding type numbers, = and request values for the types already listed in the = draft.
There = is a discussion going on in the "Capability-fetching mechanisms=E2=80= =9D thread regarding switching from using an IANA-defined registry to = using YANG identities.  I would be good to understand the pros/cons = of each.  Ultimately it comes down to 1) writing RFCs requesting = IANA to create new entries vs. 2) writing an RFC (or perhaps not) = defining a YANG module that defines an identity that derives off a base = identity defined in some new module (called, e.g., "ietf-notif-transport-capabilites=E2=80=9D). =  
.
K.


Once done, we could ping IANA to have an early allocation so = that we could release the collector code using the right values, and the = Wireshark dissector being developed could be merged into their main = branch. 

-- Update yang model
Adding= segmentation configuration and maximum segment sizes.
Currently, only fragmentation configuration is supported.

IMHO, the -04 will be the version to be last called, but = let's see how it goes :)

Regards, 

Pierre. 


_______________________________________________
netconf = mailing list
netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_3F8554A5-C4A7-4DE9-B856-D9A903F733BD-- From nobody Thu Jul 22 04:43:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FFB3A433E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:43:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N14btHBi3FLe for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEA343A42B6 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id r135so4846535ybc.0 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:43:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Vw4B9CnQKesjiFP5aYC2eh5AXJtt7rGYZ2MnLiCCjSo=; b=AxHjOmhpV9fWk4VlzkbqyavXGp4/EJ6+elUVSwfKcqQNr42TEm5u3cJUn95dS3sYzP Vh+WAUJnf0lXxuFSHdzr+jVwX2SgdEl5GSgmdf99sZXi2iThlnE9GDjHuTQ5UjZrpiwS Olw7qLB/bAGq3CuRESHOgWnlrvOJ+KL7PZ1q5QhhvvErDgJtwRZQBQk31rRXYedAorhy nujZuljfSU1SYIYwWDDJ4otKdw0yJjwqXI/vMrJpK24zWyDOFYErJjCCVV8czl6Ygy3T fJ9YUlU9jVzMuJI4TIM3bUQZ6FskszEHr0bY1/X5G3m7WQFsZDIukuy3gpRBaRnTXeho 8TIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Vw4B9CnQKesjiFP5aYC2eh5AXJtt7rGYZ2MnLiCCjSo=; b=tPB+PrP3jTu8vt0T8zISG6c7v7051ujLmhB9nNAYj+7WLUEIlY4cvX68KcJjRrTyva a/+CoKPyyWO4jN8YmgyotTlL5i/4DniOyNx05H66R7CLpnZMo6sZvSs/ZE/dOCMao8yR 99i6l3TQ+PJhWGlEeFfSNB3NUqnMsJ/5/7Kk03jwe0DAQ1KkQvhLzfmIpmwn2T6FZ0eU 9mu0LqQ3tzvnQawr6mAQrl9xTyUv9Od7XFKrHWC9lFF2gA8OKCOrmXIcgmEIM1e5ojl/ UX40IY4T+T1qgfv9z8U8qKGAUuaARFHOqj1jp+S21XaVlj4nb68lnNA6rzuWJMWOm9j0 5qDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530YTzOTu4BZISEmUi7qc5n/av/KLsR1suAYAPDVNit0+VLia3UC +mkoXvyiCJlLAU6ROSQ9rNfFwtk/b6NAzDmFzlgNw1m27FM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzAQeE/hsb0fA8E4qXxMAFPrErEqdsM2M5e338tTPFbmL4Tj55JrCYB0DHJDiS3Q093Phaqlp6KI3YJldqGsNY= X-Received: by 2002:a25:8b8b:: with SMTP id j11mr50970990ybl.138.1626954226686; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 04:43:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Pierre Francois Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 13:43:36 +0200 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "maqiufang (A)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bf5cd905c7b4cc65" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:43:54 -0000 --000000000000bf5cd905c7b4cc65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kent, (ii) I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99s f= or the > capabilities rather than YANG identities. I guess that this would be a b= it > more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of > capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that wou= ld > be automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is added to th= e > registry. E.g., following the approach for say for iana-routing-types > YANG Module > > > > I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed. It seems > reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA registry of an= y > sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be scoped by their mod= ules. > The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D int= roduce for custom (non-standard) > capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting = IANA out > of having to maintain a registry of any kind. > Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the protocol code points defining options and encoding types? Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their protocol code points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as developers is to have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes, but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to what I've been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this is what is going on ;) Regards, Pierre. --000000000000bf5cd905c7b4cc65 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kent,=C2=A0

(ii)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities.=C2=A0 I guess that this= would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of cap= abilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that would be= automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is added to the re= gistry.=C2=A0 E.g., following the approach for say for ia= na-routing-types YANG Module

I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed= .=C2=A0 It seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA= registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be scop= ed by their modules. =C2=A0 The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2= =80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce for custom (non-standard) capabilities, b= ut it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting IANA out of havin= g to maintain a registry of any kind.
<= div>

Transposing this discussion to our udp-no= tif, for the sake of consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA = pools for the protocol code points defining options and encoding types?=C2= =A0
Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their p= rotocol code points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as devel= opers is to have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes,=C2= =A0
but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to = what I've been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this = is what is going on ;)

Regards,=C2=A0
Pierre.




=C2=A0
--000000000000bf5cd905c7b4cc65-- From nobody Thu Jul 22 11:05:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD85A3A0C04 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y10LEYGkLu2P for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com (mail-pl1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 762683A0C02 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id c15so5444313pls.13 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:05:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=lDuSmWLhHDo3VWHwTZFf3OxLChsfER04xSePJ3FfxhA=; b=bkpd7zUK9ELr+epSTvy4I1mXe1/K6CLCSjHECOkNvCbZPALRJs8uZSXhxn3i0foVcb QMUsC8WXZYfyNW12n4KLtR4wJmrekVd0716pKy84nxuvAoPeoTlAXkNBnlDs9wcFBHdj DjSpj7jVOzGEGLsDEJNCEnZFrGo+exbXMs9WX6ClXj8eLmwcKB8WD+h1EPvwCRo2MiGa JTLY3gMTj4zZkEZ64+lRSqZAVUNEeVKz1v0jsdRC2rPULdnZoEMfUz5Hd4ePZ+FkLL05 DwVunlq1sY1thGt7NVztXfcO2WqdW76JI8rjJKOAsNDCi8L55SlP2oLH2sErovgbdcgt bB0w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=lDuSmWLhHDo3VWHwTZFf3OxLChsfER04xSePJ3FfxhA=; b=UnBXdJR2Flpq4ZOtJG78nrTqJy7leSnCk3EhZ/s6ccGv3GU0cw8EAk+klFLWMwzxYN NZByzrRqlfh1V0WxHOw+IvAP2aOpSUDq1ePghhGkWnyVCgsW5DOsGKQ5MUcsuaMC2qkA qD4Npdu3ILO45qLXEWZqVhMIeUhMzBaOopXSgpezHFAnCRFYvtkr+xUR0hfFKuIwJYJR 1LyeAnlc6+jfOkgPBUXCQNytAGguSW1U5DNKSZBufBJ0/6FiMWYgaD5dBXAeB64SfQTg H2JWpPp3Hwe+HszwHHBMWx05qKDsBmfm3dT6M0Fh5lc+JBwliEzrSKJp2OlgJJqnmpo1 O/BA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532CFe8HYNnogj1bRfdzIddM9gRoQVgLTainH1fMLqbbxbqeg4ue 9B7MYkFG2s/Zhm9gF35I0pc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzpnBC3zeehRgg/ZnUmljLvoNZg4m5WJ1PRN+ClOosi7dOuLyDmAX3oSxOFNJoHGUnUGmdsiQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1895:b029:32c:b091:ebc with SMTP id x21-20020a056a001895b029032cb0910ebcmr1030476pfh.4.1626977101002; Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.130] (c-69-181-212-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [69.181.212.201]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g2sm26418583pjt.51.2021.07.22.11.04.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:04:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_106A8D68-8CFE-4970-A943-B88ECC676AA0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:04:49 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Pierre Francois References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 18:05:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_106A8D68-8CFE-4970-A943-B88ECC676AA0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Pierre, > On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois = wrote: >=20 > Kent,=20 >=20 >> (ii) I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities. I guess that this = would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA = maintained registry of capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of = YANG identities that would be automatically updated by IANA whenever a = new capability is added to the registry. E.g., following the approach = for say for iana-routing-types YANG Module = > I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed. It = seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA = registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be = scoped by their modules. The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the = =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce for custom (non-standard) = capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting = IANA out of having to maintain a registry of any kind. >=20 >=20 > Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of = consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the = protocol code points defining options and encoding types?=20 > Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their protocol = code points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as developers = is to have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes,=20 > but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to what I've = been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this is what is = going on ;) The proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identities to define = capabilities. For example, a new module called = =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base = identity called: identity transport-capabilities { description "Base identity from which identities describing transport capabilities are derived."; } Other capabilities would then derive of this base identity to define new = capabilities. See attached module for a more complete example. This module will be a IANA maintained module. However, the difference is = that while the module will be registered with IANA, you do not need a = registry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can create a new = module, import the base identity from this IANA module, and define a new = capability. Makes sense? >=20 > Regards,=20 >=20 > Pierre. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_106A8D68-8CFE-4970-A943-B88ECC676AA0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1EE2E38E-0674-49E6-AC90-68290A74E4D5" --Apple-Mail=_1EE2E38E-0674-49E6-AC90-68290A74E4D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Pierre,

On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois = <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Kent, 

(ii)          &nb= sp;     I = wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99s for the capabilities = rather than YANG identities.  I guess that this would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of = capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that = would be automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is = added to the registry.  E.g., following the approach for say for iana-routing-types YANG = Module


I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of = identities was ever discussed.  It seems reasonable and, if not = mistaken, would NOT require an IANA registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the = identities (on the wire) would be scoped by their modules.   The = only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D = introduce for custom (non-standard) capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t = seem meaningful relative to getting IANA out of having to maintain a = registry of any kind.


Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of = consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the = protocol code points defining options and encoding = types? 
Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses = IANA to organize their protocol code points? I have no strong opinion on = this, as our goal as developers is to have the IETF tell us which values = to use for these codes, 
but this seems like a = radical change of approach compared to what I've been used to, so I'd = like to make sure I understand this is what is going on = ;)

The = proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identities to define = capabilities. For example, a new module called = =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base = identity called:

  = identity transport-capabilities {
    = description
      "Base identity from which = identities describing transport
      =  capabilities are derived.";
  }

Other capabilities would then derive of this base = identity to define new capabilities. See attached module for a more = complete example.

This module will = be a IANA maintained module. However, the difference is that while the = module will be registered with IANA, you do not need a registry to = maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can create a new module, = import the base identity from this IANA module, and define a new = capability.

Makes = sense?

= --Apple-Mail=_1EE2E38E-0674-49E6-AC90-68290A74E4D5 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=iana-notif-transport-capabilities.yang Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="iana-notif-transport-capabilities.yang" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit module iana-notif-transport-capabilities { yang-version "1.1"; namespace "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:iana-notif-transport-capabilities"; prefix "notif-cap"; identity transport-capabilities { description "Base identity from which identities describing transport capabilities are derived."; } identity xml { base transport-capabilities; description "This identity represents XML encoding of notifications over any transport."; } identity json { base transport-capabilities; description "This identity represents JSON encoding of notifications over any transport."; } identity rfc8639-enabled { base transport-capabilities; description "This identity represents RFC 8639 capable encoding of notifications over any transport."; } identity binary { base transport-capabilities; description "This identity represents binary encoding of notifications over any transport."; } } --Apple-Mail=_1EE2E38E-0674-49E6-AC90-68290A74E4D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


Regards, 

Pierre.




 
_______________________________________________
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netconf@ietf.org
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Mahesh Jethanandani





--Apple-Mail=_1EE2E38E-0674-49E6-AC90-68290A74E4D5-- --Apple-Mail=_106A8D68-8CFE-4970-A943-B88ECC676AA0-- From nobody Fri Jul 23 00:26:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA583A086D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 00:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OcfcVDCR1DlZ for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BADC3A0870 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 00:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id k65so861596yba.13 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 00:26:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3bjc7cwcNnPcX4YixW1fmd1arkpofRvuHAyBqDzceBI=; b=cX7gs6hkZ3dFgNNwbh8wrKAMKW7EZgwlcLpBfDurDJebV/W4q54VtOJBRS5ROFXP4D bc9Nxt0PktbnM3XaO0DQzqT2qrJj0c/51/qLsCsaOXZcQXLx7gjcqlWHPrnoDVoIuCI1 kN4JBTsM33l1gF5p7P9hsUwFD3QW0vfIrbdUxb3TNl4dsqmH0j7fbEz1+I57fKaFjcP3 X38li3Lyv9cJFRy9Jm3kV/2dlMJOcw1S4fhK09JU7nmO/8oaFpV5QnCpYJ79UG5cHls5 tfApVODOof3VoZmQTAWfZD2gAoWLM+DVJl3hAJbzEGc78Q97UM+l64lf5Xivb1a8gMkc xroQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3bjc7cwcNnPcX4YixW1fmd1arkpofRvuHAyBqDzceBI=; b=ub/U7IosTq+d3gmRwpWpiL+mFyW+QW/RLUA9uFZaDgdbdOtV75OImYqWHw9hm05zUx wWHfkxm+CNdv5ert5aQESrq13xq/ak2dZ9YhiUo8syW+TEgUc+2PIhEU++RQisYhJ1Pa Vm8+RIqX9JTSvEOvkaEkCelAL4bsUxqcR6fVKSplVeiFJO0fK+eCcwq/OHIRfhapWfxC RGW95MKBmqpwKIIqn9OwRGgmMf+YiokepPT511dJV8UUqtDGTtuTEgQKe4i1c+lZfuW0 meNoHR7Hk82b2ZFRQXhCCgEYQ+t8bONXg2/avJv8w3A5yzcoTdVayLJp97BtdzGel1WT KOdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531g/w3ZdSYlHsj56JiPQxATxGEYXnCWZfESM4a1R5z9ozhyVFFv O6jQj8MLoiNz8eNAAj82oklB2OjhBMj9OrelaR4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzn3tUo4Bro4+VwXNN31Lo41A+xFahU1nwmudEt/4MAgreBysIkLAxSMM3DBJvzNKZSwgHoy0Rr0d0dSJ1h05Y= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bc10:: with SMTP id i16mr4648379ybh.73.1627025205757; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 00:26:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> From: Pierre Francois Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 09:26:36 +0200 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006e081d05c7c553e5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:26:52 -0000 --0000000000006e081d05c7c553e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mahesh, Le jeu. 22 juil. 2021 =C3=A0 20:05, Mahesh Jethanandani a =C3=A9crit : > Hi Pierre, > > On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois < > pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Kent, > > (ii) I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99s= for the >> capabilities rather than YANG identities. I guess that this would be a = bit >> more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of >> capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that wo= uld >> be automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is added to t= he >> registry. E.g., following the approach for say for iana-routing-types >> YANG Module >> >> >> >> I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed. It seem= s >> reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA registry of a= ny >> sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be scoped by their mo= dules. >> The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D in= troduce for custom (non-standard) >> capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting= IANA out >> of having to maintain a registry of any kind. >> > > > Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of consistency= , > is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the protocol code poin= ts > defining options and encoding types? > Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their protocol code > points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as developers is to > have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes, > but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to what I've > been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this is what is going > on ;) > > > The proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identities to define > capabilities. For example, a new module called > =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base i= dentity called: > > identity transport-capabilities { > description > "Base identity from which identities describing transport > capabilities are derived."; > } > > Other capabilities would then derive of this base identity to define new > capabilities. See attached module for a more complete example. > > This module will be a IANA maintained module. However, the difference is > that while the module will be registered with IANA, you do not need a > registry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can create a new > module, import the base identity from this IANA module, and define a new > capability. > > Makes sense? > For expressing capabilities, it seems to work, but the pools I was referring to and discussing with you offline are for what I will find on the wire for options and encoding types in the header. For this to work I'd need the values explicited in the module so that I know what to put in the code. If anybody can create their own and decide which value will be on the wire without a pool, we lose unicity, don't we? Regards, Pierre. --0000000000006e081d05c7c553e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mahesh,=C2=A0

Le=C2=A0jeu. 22 juil. 2021 = =C3=A0=C2=A020:05, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hi Pierre,

On Jul = 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> w= rote:

Kent,=C2=A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">

(ii)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities.=C2=A0 I guess that this= would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of cap= abilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that would be= automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is added to the re= gistry.=C2=A0 E.g., following the approach for say for ia= na-routing-types YANG Module

I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed= .=C2=A0 It seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA= registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be scop= ed by their modules. =C2=A0 The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2= =80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce for custom (non-standard) capabilities, b= ut it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting IANA out of havin= g to maintain a registry of any kind.
<= div>

Transposing this discussion to our udp-no= tif, for the sake of consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA = pools for the protocol code points defining options and encoding types?=C2= =A0
Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their p= rotocol code points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as devel= opers is to have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes,=C2= =A0
but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to = what I've been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this = is what is going on ;)

T= he proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identities to define capabi= lities. For example, a new module called =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capa= bilities=E2=80=9D would define a base identity called:

=
=C2=A0 identity transport-capabilities {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Base identity from which i= dentities describing transport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0capabil= ities are derived.";
=C2=A0 }

Other= capabilities would then derive of this base identity to define new capabil= ities. See attached module for a more complete example.

This module will be a IANA maintained module. However, the difference= is that while the module will be registered with IANA, you do not need a r= egistry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can create a new mod= ule, import the base identity from this IANA module, and define a new capab= ility.

Makes sense?
=

For expressing capabilities, it seems to work, but the = pools I was referring to and discussing with you offline are for what I wil= l find on the wire for options and encoding types in the header.
= For this to work I'd need the values explicited in the module so that I= know what to put in the code.=C2=A0
If anybody can create their = own and decide which value will be on the wire without a pool, we lose unic= ity, don't we?

Regards,=C2=A0

Pierre.

=C2=A0
--0000000000006e081d05c7c553e5-- From nobody Sat Jul 24 13:08:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684803A083B for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mpIm2XiKcBOh for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x634.google.com (mail-pl1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30A243A0848 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x634.google.com with SMTP id n10so7175252plf.4 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=sIrxg6gMYDHMngjFH+bejIZK5h+8VSnFDGyrCjgseO8=; b=ieZ6IKfDkyiKjXPq9AZywAu9Fsga+fdWsZMtXQeWtuvu34toxZbKjrCw2Tf9CDOpcG 0gowZn6/Yp7Jh9F+bI5aG6nmPSwNwzKNSuI0fg4TrPfAiMcZYmcW78g/uE4PZ9+cOSxj vJXBqB4EL6iuhxTRfoTNSbeZ0dcn7+qjvyWaMoSuzk7U2ecXiEoa5DCg6YWrIzY3ZeRF U1JiIqIpEa1YnaCkSsH9wzZ3zqGSfCyUZer1mzongSMDrjxVYt/y0S14g8REDK3zJFCA 3mfmHcCl3fWD80wo3eqsdP7EYwF9py6iihf2aEHLsXWXLfwtThvYhSob3EraJc4WJOBe gp5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=sIrxg6gMYDHMngjFH+bejIZK5h+8VSnFDGyrCjgseO8=; b=FgJsUD7jwmlBzH9aLrE2iU45LtoM+EVwbxVYMQ/RKTgMggjZK+ON9bQ6UEG1eVIcab rzL0RkkJ7O6TKSF4h1CVfGK+yIHQHlAoiKTky2fYbASJdqCVvB1AYVP7H/1ENhEVenP4 7ICXCDqWqPeGD6Ws/T1ZtHZzUwHUbwFfSAiWIWFcBngT4UQYt2+XOb2dg8WfyEYxcgwK 4b079Bs10uubA8nP3M0wgpnWLTaqvG0zccPuLk93yId5id0WZv0V1ecZbIFZ4i1/EIWm xysvzEMB8MPddCM4XZNWCvinCwLdiN4zlBThivDX6C9jDXKgaH7TuO0N6z6OYwQyWGdI mrhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530CeYLaNPBFR61Fj3Z4XRNNAeEHu2QozHsXnmB3XKyON6VjKBow MKXtiPG9JLJ6k5f/9gHPAmk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx3GvdnE02WRdHjxNAArepTJxsmM7lks8r6j+ZGwFiw/VHqKtaVsslj+h0BfzCns4NNtvR39w== X-Received: by 2002:a63:1913:: with SMTP id z19mr10618770pgl.315.1627157314966; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.133] ([76.21.92.206]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u2sm37640488pfh.61.2021.07.24.13.08.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <040453BC-C7DA-4701-B80A-834ECA350D52@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9A76FCBB-635D-48AD-879D-96881B1EEC54" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Pierre Francois References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 20:08:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9A76FCBB-635D-48AD-879D-96881B1EEC54 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Pierre, > On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:26 AM, Pierre Francois = wrote: >=20 > Mahesh,=20 >=20 > Le jeu. 22 juil. 2021 =C3=A0 20:05, Mahesh Jethanandani = > a =C3=A9crit = : > Hi Pierre, >=20 >> On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois = > = wrote: >>=20 >> Kent,=20 >>=20 >>> (ii) I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities. I guess that this = would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA = maintained registry of capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of = YANG identities that would be automatically updated by IANA whenever a = new capability is added to the registry. E.g., following the approach = for say for iana-routing-types YANG Module = >> I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed. It = seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA = registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be = scoped by their modules. The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the = =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce for custom (non-standard) = capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to getting = IANA out of having to maintain a registry of any kind. >>=20 >>=20 >> Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of = consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the = protocol code points defining options and encoding types?=20 >> Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their protocol = code points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as developers = is to have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes,=20 >> but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to what = I've been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this is what is = going on ;) >=20 > The proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identities to define = capabilities. For example, a new module called = =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base = identity called: >=20 > identity transport-capabilities { > description > "Base identity from which identities describing transport > capabilities are derived."; > } >=20 > Other capabilities would then derive of this base identity to define = new capabilities. See attached module for a more complete example. >=20 > This module will be a IANA maintained module. However, the difference = is that while the module will be registered with IANA, you do not need a = registry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can create a new = module, import the base identity from this IANA module, and define a new = capability. >=20 > Makes sense? >=20 > For expressing capabilities, it seems to work, but the pools I was = referring to and discussing with you offline are for what I will find on = the wire for options and encoding types in the header. > For this to work I'd need the values explicited in the module so that = I know what to put in the code.=20 > If anybody can create their own and decide which value will be on the = wire without a pool, we lose unicity, don't we? You will notice that the thread starts with Rob=E2=80=99s message in the = green, where he was specifically asking about capability advertisement. = And so does my response. So this solution works for capabilities, but = will not address the question you raise about code points. For that you = might have to make a IANA registry request. HTC. Thanks. >=20 > Regards,=20 >=20 > Pierre. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_9A76FCBB-635D-48AD-879D-96881B1EEC54 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Pierre,

On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:26 AM, Pierre Francois = <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Mahesh, 

Le jeu. = 22 juil. 2021 =C3=A0 20:05, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit :
Hi Pierre,

On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois = <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Kent, 

(ii)          &nb= sp;     I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities.  I guess that = this would be a bit more work because it would require both an IANA = maintained registry of capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of = YANG identities that would be automatically updated by IANA whenever a = new capability is added to the registry.  E.g., following the = approach for say for iana-routing-types YANG = Module


I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of = identities was ever discussed.  It seems reasonable and, if not = mistaken, would NOT require an IANA registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the = identities (on the wire) would be scoped by their modules.   The = only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D = introduce for custom (non-standard) capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t = seem meaningful relative to getting IANA out of having to maintain a = registry of any kind.


Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of = consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the = protocol code points defining options and encoding = types? 
Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses = IANA to organize their protocol code points? I have no strong opinion on = this, as our goal as developers is to have the IETF tell us which values = to use for these codes, 
but this seems like a = radical change of approach compared to what I've been used to, so I'd = like to make sure I understand this is what is going on = ;)

The proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use = identities to define capabilities. For example, a new module called = =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base = identity called:

  identity = transport-capabilities {
    description
      "Base identity from which = identities describing transport
    =    capabilities are derived.";
  }

Other capabilities would then derive of = this base identity to define new capabilities. See attached module for a = more complete example.

This module will be a IANA maintained module. However, the = difference is that while the module will be registered with IANA, you do = not need a registry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can = create a new module, import the base identity from this IANA module, and = define a new capability.

Makes sense?

For expressing capabilities, it seems = to work, but the pools I was referring to and discussing with you = offline are for what I will find on the wire for options and encoding = types in the header.
For this to work I'd need the = values explicited in the module so that I know what to put in the = code. 
If anybody can create their own and = decide which value will be on the wire without a pool, we lose unicity, = don't we?

You will notice that the thread starts with Rob=E2=80=99s= message in the green, where he was specifically asking about capability = advertisement. And so does my response. So this solution works for = capabilities, but will not address the question you raise about code = points. For that you might have to make a IANA registry = request.

HTC. Thanks.


Regards, 

Pierre.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





= --Apple-Mail=_9A76FCBB-635D-48AD-879D-96881B1EEC54-- From nobody Sat Jul 24 15:08:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F049E3A0538 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:08:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1uM-1qWHo5JC for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com (mail-yb1-xb30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87E3F3A0529 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id k65so3676069yba.13 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:08:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5blkFhPGTR3bpAE9ROrGN7xsBeSsPmWKuTjjsYBiIEI=; b=c6cDxyb9T/tSRamIJpq9121p1VjFkS/GYqHCe+h9iB65iej7ZXgn86J/uRoRCA4vVR u2DFBVmJjtcBWjAoA1jtX9mmujqSsaG0UjujvcUKI/ctW57E3bTmFxcFpmsVLekY+EYt ZkrAOOlbiRTwvkiisju+jZVAxIlgBJIBI03FjKfz+uuVhejn01UDUgy7ssBkK21MAp4k JNZm2S+jaJOc88ZqHGd6XUqlCCsdBhp+Vel4jjp0FUTVFZr99g4VIhteHHWMpsr9/UqT zhj6I1FeGOGlNk9xzTu5jsXG4mZRtaKt5NY7lyXVYN9ACptkitUFLDsv9matPoEaz0vk PsLA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5blkFhPGTR3bpAE9ROrGN7xsBeSsPmWKuTjjsYBiIEI=; b=VS7/C1KXEK2Ax9HZpUBV9fSYA55ApbnfzrZNCyKg0UdAKLeqr5XDcFxr4GaHwvtdNM ST+wWW1VMRDOhHb44i8k1CW3JILgVRjNqMMHGnXlSDsg+SgIMLMs6euYn3rVZbmYfkRi PbKwFc+78XvliRlHED//xQ51HVKetWUBMWaRVCsv2AYi8A48quHnX2jP6khgizn7MaJC IGSh0S0tgfJ9nGZ+Kltq0YephKG58V+dJgRhz+o2i8yJa67ov2XiZvmpthOv8pmNYhXE W5OHIRTdgXkLh8DB+zm72Kn9tNJG8SnO6iDMIyW4M73665mJibINbK0RbjmYS2GCucL4 ERwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Qu1mnGGHuEIzrDlL+GyiFbUnBft5sp+2p/W0yiVsWTGq2Qnhg lLedi6PEbJ5P7Cq3TKBh0WQuEsyKvbyZTke3ql0RXPfACOE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2CLeRcKju76HzGT/6evifx8Nr7+kfCbE47u2SHwygmoHq5kD2PHNKX8vW/WOGaHHg6Evi6AEsBgm64nvVyTk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:744c:: with SMTP id p73mr14027024ybc.507.1627164505599; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:08:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> <040453BC-C7DA-4701-B80A-834ECA350D52@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <040453BC-C7DA-4701-B80A-834ECA350D52@gmail.com> From: Pierre Francois Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:08:14 +0200 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000058f36305c7e5c24c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 22:08:31 -0000 --00000000000058f36305c7e5c24c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mahesh, That's what I thought initially. I just followed the suggestion I received from you to react to this thread when I mentioned the creation of these pools planned for -04. All is well then. If the wg agrees I'll add the IANA requests to the next revision of the draft. Thanks ! Cheers, Pierre. Le sam. 24 juil. 2021 =C3=A0 22:08, Mahesh Jethanandani a =C3=A9crit : > Hi Pierre, > > On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:26 AM, Pierre Francois < > pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Mahesh, > > Le jeu. 22 juil. 2021 =C3=A0 20:05, Mahesh Jethanandani < > mjethanandani@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit : > >> Hi Pierre, >> >> On Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois < >> pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Kent, >> >> (ii) I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you used inet:uri=E2=80=99= s for the >>> capabilities rather than YANG identities. I guess that this would be a= bit >>> more work because it would require both an IANA maintained registry of >>> capabilities and also a derived IANA registry of YANG identities that w= ould >>> be automatically updated by IANA whenever a new capability is added to = the >>> registry. E.g., following the approach for say for iana-routing-types >>> YANG Module >>> >>> >>> >>> I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of identities was ever discussed. It see= ms >>> reasonable and, if not mistaken, would NOT require an IANA registry of = any >>> sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on the wire) would be scoped by their m= odules. >>> The only =E2=80=9Cdownside=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D i= ntroduce for custom (non-standard) >>> capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to gettin= g IANA out >>> of having to maintain a registry of any kind. >>> >> >> >> Transposing this discussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of >> consistency, is the WG considering not to create IANA pools for the >> protocol code points defining options and encoding types? >> Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IANA to organize their protocol cod= e >> points? I have no strong opinion on this, as our goal as developers is t= o >> have the IETF tell us which values to use for these codes, >> but this seems like a radical change of approach compared to what I've >> been used to, so I'd like to make sure I understand this is what is goin= g >> on ;) >> >> >> The proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identities to define >> capabilities. For example, a new module called >> =E2=80=9Ciana-notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base = identity called: >> >> identity transport-capabilities { >> description >> "Base identity from which identities describing transport >> capabilities are derived."; >> } >> >> Other capabilities would then derive of this base identity to define new >> capabilities. See attached module for a more complete example. >> >> This module will be a IANA maintained module. However, the difference is >> that while the module will be registered with IANA, you do not need a >> registry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can create a new >> module, import the base identity from this IANA module, and define a new >> capability. >> >> Makes sense? >> > > For expressing capabilities, it seems to work, but the pools I was > referring to and discussing with you offline are for what I will find on > the wire for options and encoding types in the header. > For this to work I'd need the values explicited in the module so that I > know what to put in the code. > If anybody can create their own and decide which value will be on the wir= e > without a pool, we lose unicity, don't we? > > > You will notice that the thread starts with Rob=E2=80=99s message in the = green, > where he was specifically asking about capability advertisement. And so > does my response. So this solution works for capabilities, but will not > address the question you raise about code points. For that you might have > to make a IANA registry request. > > HTC. Thanks. > > > Regards, > > Pierre. > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > > > --00000000000058f36305c7e5c24c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Mahesh,=C2=A0

That's what I t= hought initially. I just followed the suggestion I received from you to rea= ct to this thread when I mentioned the creation of these pools planned for = -04.
All is well then. If the wg agrees I'll add the IANA req= uests to the next revision of the draft.

Thanks !<= /div>
Cheers,=C2=A0

Pierre.

=



Le=C2=A0sam. 24 juil. 2021 =C3=A0=C2=A0= 22:08, Mahesh Jethanandani <m= jethanandani@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
On Jul 23, 2021, at= 12:26 AM, Pierre Francois <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Mahesh,=C2=A0
Le= =C2=A0jeu. 22 juil. 2021 =C3=A0=C2=A020:05, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.c= om> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hi Pierre,

O= n Jul 22, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Pierre Francois <pierre.francois.ietf@gmail.com= > wrote:

Kent,=C2=A0

<= /div>
(ii)=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0I wasn=E2=80=99t sure why you = used inet:uri=E2=80=99s for the capabilities rather than YANG identities.= =C2=A0 I guess that this would be a bit more work because it would require = both an IANA maintained registry of capabilities and also a derived IANA re= gistry of YANG identities that would be automatically updated by IANA whene= ver a new capability is added to the registry.=C2=A0 E.g., following the ap= proach for say for=C2=A0iana-routing-types YANG Module


I=E2=80=99m unsure if the use of ident= ities was ever discussed.=C2=A0 It seems reasonable and, if not mistaken, w= ould NOT require an IANA registry of any sort=E2=80=A6as the identities (on= the wire) would be scoped by their modules. =C2=A0 The only =E2=80=9Cdowns= ide=E2=80=9D is the =E2=80=9Coverhead=E2=80=9D introduce for custom (non-st= andard) capabilities, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem meaningful relative to ge= tting IANA out of having to maintain a registry of any kind.


Transposing this d= iscussion to our udp-notif, for the sake of consistency, is the WG consider= ing not to create IANA pools for the protocol code points defining options = and encoding types?=C2=A0
Are we saying NETCONF no longer uses IA= NA to organize their protocol code points? I have no strong opinion on this= , as our goal as developers is to have the IETF tell us which values to use= for these codes,=C2=A0
but this seems like a radical change of a= pproach compared to what I've been used to, so I'd like to make sur= e I understand this is what is going on ;)

The proposal, as I understand from Rob is to use identit= ies to define capabilities. For example, a new module called =E2=80=9Ciana-= notif-transport-capabilities=E2=80=9D would define a base identity called:<= /div>

=C2=A0=C2=A0identity transport-c= apabilities {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0"Base identity from which id= entities describing transport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0capabili= ties are derived.";
=C2=A0=C2=A0}
Other capabilities would then derive of this base identity to d= efine new capabilities. See attached module for a more complete example.

This module will be a IANA maintained module. Howeve= r, the difference is that while the module will be registered with IANA, yo= u do not need a registry to maintain the capabilities. Instead, anybody can= create a new module, import the base identity from this IANA module, and d= efine a new capability.

Makes sense?

For expressing capabilities, it seems = to work, but the pools I was referring to and discussing with you offline a= re for what I will find on the wire for options and encoding types in the h= eader.
For this to work I'd need the values explicited in the= module so that I know what to put in the code.=C2=A0
If anybody = can create their own and decide which value will be on the wire without a p= ool, we lose unicity, don't we?

You will notice that the thread starts with Rob=E2=80=99s messa= ge in the green, where he was specifically asking about capability advertis= ement. And so does my response. So this solution works for capabilities, bu= t will not address the question you raise about code points. For that you m= ight have to make a IANA registry request.

HTC. Th= anks.


Regards,=C2=A0

Pierre.
Mahesh Jethanandani
<= div>




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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR07MB6256.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 81ad94c0-358a-428d-fbc8-08d95027583a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jul 2021 11:20:16.2140 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: zbSDdjQXFVjgwIIs8lFcvc9mI8Mw7+UKRCe3nYQf4/FF3BgcPSWOZEH1KWw9aUuWhwGoioSN5SwU5lZ78cv0uQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB6224 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] Secdir last call partial review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-25 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 11:20:27 -0000 From: netconf on behalf of Watson Ladd via Datat= racker =0A= Sent: 22 July 2021 06:54=0A= =0A= Review is partially done. Another assignment may be needed to complete it.= =0A= =0A= Reviewer: Watson Ladd=0A= Review result: Ready=0A= =0A= Dear readers,=0A= Forgive my completing this review almost a month late.=0A= =0A= I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's=0A= ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the=0A= IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the=0A= security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat=0A= these comments just like any other last call comments.=0A= =0A= The summary of the review is ready, because I can't find anything wrong wit= h=0A= it. Your comfort with this fact should be minimal.=0A= =0A= Benjamin Kaduk writes me to inform you that the issues with the PSK in TLS = 1.3=0A= are being worked on.=0A= =0A= And now on to my evaluation of the document. The problem is that I can't=0A= evaluate this in any substantive way: it is a whole bunch of YANG, a techno= logy=0A= I am completely ignorant of. The few English sentences I saw looked fine, a= nd I=0A= didn't spot anything wrong, but I likely wouldn't have.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Watson,=0A= =0A= I am the one who has been stirring this, FUD mostly.=0A= =0A= One issue is the support for TLS1.0, TLS1.1 which originally was more compr= ehensive than that for TLS1.3 and in some respects still is, as in the exam= ples. These versions are now deprecated in YANG; I would have omitted the= m entirely, but the WG consensus was otherwise. I take it you are ok with = this. Of the TLS RFC, only RRC8446 is a Normative Reference.=0A= =0A= PSK and raw public keys were a late addition to the I-D. I had forgotten t= hat the latter were a type of certificate and so likely has no issues with = TLS1.3 but with PSK I see little resemblance to earlier versions of TLS. M= y sense is that the TLS WG really wants to have nothing to do with PSK (unl= ess following a full handshake) even if there are two TLS I-D spelling out = the consequences of using PSK alone . Together with changes in terminology= and protocol for PSK, I think it challenging to produce a model for PSK fo= r both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3. The I-D does tackle the TLS1,3 changes from ciph= ersuite but says nothing about the features it specifies for 3DES, GCM, EC= C and their interaction with TLS1.3 (should it?)=0A= =0A= I am aware of the issues EMU have had with TLS1.3 and see some application = I-D providing a profile for the use of TLS1.3 but overall doubt the feasib= ility of producing an I-D which covers both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3 without going= into the sort of detail that uta-tls13-iot-profile does.=0A= =0A= My comfort is minimal!=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= Sincerely,=0A= Watson Ladd=0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netconf mailing list=0A= netconf@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=0A= From nobody Tue Jul 27 09:26:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC09C3A07D3 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 09:25:58 -0700 (PDT) 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15.20.4373.018; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:25:50 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Pierre Francois CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Capability-fetching mechanisms Thread-Index: Addh4dN4MmAPJjV0Sjy0XXGIk3+1WQKjOIkAAIQG94ADiF4uAAAr+yMAAA0gzwAAWoUYAAANUFiAAPeP92A= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:25:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7527caa444da49d5bce2608512c668df@huawei.com> <741DCE37-211F-4AA0-B023-D1D551D93E13@gmail.com> <63f192192a3f4750ac9e6dddeb8145e5@huawei.com> <3ade922f804b4f6d8a657318ebd5058f@huawei.com> <0100017ac4c24615-714693f5-47a3-4df0-96ff-f23432c34f2a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6F54F86F-87E1-433A-8142-220CD2BEE73E@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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<01000179cd2a8e75-b2096264-8d0f-41b0-8164-4941ad744ce2-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:16:32 +0200 Cc: draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif , pierre francois , "netconf@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26A66B1D-97BD-4366-95A6-5198F616AA80@insa-lyon.fr> References: <1448778391.413238.1622108131158.JavaMail.zimbra@insa-lyon.fr> <01000179ae5debf2-86973cf9-70d7-4601-b901-962d8ca86334-000000@email.amazonses.com> <218761490.2312562.1622628819191.JavaMail.zimbra@insa-lyon.fr> <01000179cd2a8e75-b2096264-8d0f-41b0-8164-4941ad744ce2-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , rwilton@cisco.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) X-Renater-Ptge-SpamState: clean X-Renater-Ptge-SpamScore: -100 X-Renater-Ptge-SpamCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrheehgddutdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucftgffptefvgfftnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpegtggfuhfgjfffgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpegkmhgrihhluceorghlvgigrdhhuhgrnhhgqdhfvghnghesihhnshgrqdhlhihonhdrfhhrqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelkeefjedvveffleekjedtjeefjedufeevleehgedvtedvgeeikefgieelheeiieenucfkphepudelgedrvdehgedrvdeguddrvdehudenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeduleegrddvheegrddvgedurddvhedupdhhvghlohepjeejrdduleelrdekhedrhedtpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepkghmrghilhcuoegrlhgvgidrhhhurghnghdqfhgvnhhgsehinhhsrgdqlhihohhnrdhfrheqpdhrtghpthhtohepvghvohhithepgedttghishgtohdrtghomhesughmrghrtgdrihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheprhifihhlthhonhestghishgtohdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegurhgrfhhtqdhivghtfhdqnhgvthgtohhnfhdqhhhtthhpshdqnhhothhifhesihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepphhivghrrhgvrdhfrhgrnhgtohhishesihhnshgrqdhlhihonhdrfhhrpdhrtghpthhtohepnhgvthgt ohhnfhesihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepkhgvnhhtodhivghtfhesfigrthhsvghnrdhnvght Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC8639 capability on https-notif receiver implementation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:16:51 -0000 Hi Eric and Rob, I am still a bit confused on the draft HTTPS-notif. I have developed a collector for the receiver in C for the HTTPS-notif = protocol but I still do not understand how the rfc-8639 support would = work on the protocol. What should the collector do to support this = capability? It is mandatory to fully support HTTPS-notif protocol? Looking to hearing from you, Alex Huang Feng INSA Lyon > On 2 Jun 2021, at 16:39, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > [CC-ing Eric Voit] >=20 >=20 >> [Alex]: Are there any others https-notif independent implementations = apart from us ? Any vendor or existant publisher/receiver ? >=20 > Not that I=E2=80=99m aware of. >=20 >=20 >> [Alex]: We are now supporting both encodings json and xml. I am still = trying to understand the rfc-8639 state machine capability but still not = understand why should we save a copy of the state machine on the = receiver side. Moreover, for configured notifications, the rfc-8539 = capability is not necessary right ? >=20 > Maybe Eric can say? >=20 >=20 >> [Alex]: In my opinion, the capabilities export should be independent = from the "transport" notifications draft. Let's discuss it on the other = thread. >> We have some questions about the rfc-8639 capability (supporting the = state machine defined in the rfc 8639). >=20 > It=E2=80=99s beginning to look at way to me as well, but the other = thread is discussing it=E2=80=A6 >=20 >=20 >> [Alex]: Internally dispatch to whom ? The receiver/client has already = received the notification at this moment right ? So it has to "deal" = with at this moment ? Or I misunderstood the notification flow ? >=20 > Hopefully Eric can explain. >=20 >=20 >> Alex Huang Feng >> INSA de Lyon | INSA T=C3=A9l=C3=A9com >=20 > K. >=20 From nobody Fri Jul 30 09:52:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084C73A310B; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:52:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=NelLQcTV; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=gS+C+479 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C5fxost9NFAl; 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Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:52:00 +0000 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Zmail , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif , pierre francois , "netconf@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: RFC8639 capability on https-notif receiver implementation Thread-Index: AQHXhSOsRcLktCOQaUOBUoIGYMxK/qtbtdtA Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:52:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1448778391.413238.1622108131158.JavaMail.zimbra@insa-lyon.fr> <01000179ae5debf2-86973cf9-70d7-4601-b901-962d8ca86334-000000@email.amazonses.com> <218761490.2312562.1622628819191.JavaMail.zimbra@insa-lyon.fr> <01000179cd2a8e75-b2096264-8d0f-41b0-8164-4941ad744ce2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <26A66B1D-97BD-4366-95A6-5198F616AA80@insa-lyon.fr> In-Reply-To: <26A66B1D-97BD-4366-95A6-5198F616AA80@insa-lyon.fr> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: insa-lyon.fr; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;insa-lyon.fr; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A2_01D78541.AE1D4040" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL0PR11MB3122.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1312be25-eac8-4376-58bb-08d9537a599a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Jul 2021 16:52:00.1660 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fSsQX9EEXwBSz4tJyX75DEc2lLmtExmU4C5wJGnzZfnpvFi1xh6f2cZQhcVahJTe X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4648 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.22, xbe-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netconf] RFC8639 capability on https-notif receiver implementation X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:52:09 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01D78541.AE1D4040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, > From: alex.huang-feng@insa-lyon.fr, July 30, 2021 5:17 AM >=20 > Hi Eric and Rob, >=20 > I am still a bit confused on the draft HTTPS-notif. > I have developed a collector for the receiver in C for the HTTPS-notif = protocol > but I still do not understand how the rfc-8639 support would work on = the > protocol. What should the collector do to support this capability? It = is > mandatory to fully support HTTPS-notif protocol? Initially I thought draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif would require = RFC-8639. However this is not the final scope. The authors added the = Section 1,1 to clarify this: While the YANG modules have been defined as an augmentation of Subscription to YANG Notifications [RFC8639], the notification method defined in this document MAY be used outside of Subscription to YANG Notifications [RFC8639] by using some of the definitions from this module along with the grouping defined in Groupings for HTTP Clients and Servers [I-D.ietf-netconf-http-client-server]. For an example on how that can be done, see Section A.2. As RFC-8650 *doesn't* define Configured Subscriptions for HTTP = transport. This means there is a gap-to-be-filled in the NETCONF = specifications. I suspect this is what you are missing in your = searches. The good news is that there is unofficial/unvalidated guidance on how = this could be done. Earlier versions of RFC-8650 did provide some text = here. See: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-0= 6#section-4 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-0= 6#appendix-B.2 It would be great if someone from the WG picked up and = completed/finalized these definitions in a new draft :-). =20 > Looking to hearing from you, >=20 > Alex Huang Feng > INSA Lyon >=20 > > On 2 Jun 2021, at 16:39, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > [CC-ing Eric Voit] > > > > > >> [Alex]: Are there any others https-notif independent = implementations apart > from us ? Any vendor or existant publisher/receiver ? > > > > Not that I=E2=80=99m aware of. > > > > > >> [Alex]: We are now supporting both encodings json and xml. I am = still trying > to understand the rfc-8639 state machine capability but still not = understand why > should we save a copy of the state machine on the receiver side. = Moreover, for > configured notifications, the rfc-8539 capability is not necessary = right ? > > > > Maybe Eric can say? It is very useful to support the RFC-8639 configured subscription state = machine https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8639#section-2.5.1 and associated state change notifications. Without these two, you are far less sure that your receiver is in sync = with the publisher. But if there is no loss in an implementation, = perhaps things are will be ok. Discussions on the implications can be = seen in earlier WG mailer discussions.=20 > >> [Alex]: In my opinion, the capabilities export should be = independent from the > "transport" notifications draft. Let's discuss it on the other thread. > >> We have some questions about the rfc-8639 capability (supporting = the state > machine defined in the rfc 8639). > > > > It=E2=80=99s beginning to look at way to me as well, but the other = thread is discussing > it=E2=80=A6 > > > > > >> [Alex]: Internally dispatch to whom ? The receiver/client has = already received > the notification at this moment right ? So it has to "deal" with at = this moment ? > Or I misunderstood the notification flow ? > > > > Hopefully Eric can explain. I am not sure if I completely understand the question. Where RFC-8639 = support is included, yes you need to react to changes in the = Subscription State Change Notifications as they happen. There is some unofficial/unvalidated guidance for this in places like: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-0= 6#appendix-B.2 Eric > >> Alex Huang Feng > >> INSA de Lyon | INSA T=C3=A9l=C3=A9com > > > > K. > > ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01D78541.AE1D4040 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCA0Mw ggIroAMCAQICEF/4eygrVNyNQqMVtWjJrf8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwNTEWMBQGA1UEChMNQ2lz Y28gU3lzdGVtczEbMBkGA1UEAxMSQ2lzY28gUm9vdCBDQSAyMDQ4MB4XDTA0MDUxNDIwMTcxMloX DTI5MDUxNDIwMjU0MlowNTEWMBQGA1UEChMNQ2lzY28gU3lzdGVtczEbMBkGA1UEAxMSQ2lzY28g Um9vdCBDQSAyMDQ4MIIBIDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ0AMIIBCAKCAQEAsJq5q6evCnen4nG2 tGZilHiIR8ZiVYRAMr/Aqy6lHHHWvG57qKq6btIViEhFnaL8g9DMuYzgJmhwSnjfIRee9GEFyRXI zxbaNWGJlEOohKgxmHibuU5vLFMSbM0drSskuzHEK/+DRG+2PSR3Ceq/Kqgfalb2IA8RVJeBdacl 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: L2woPGn3GH4sI/K/3BdQoBK7GBlo+ETsEqFcCDOZQk1H6U2eh9jahFPuegLPFwa1Dgi6PN/NmfJD7KGYN5AkhR+t7xMpmfJ/Qyx/Sqg8ekM= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM8PR07MB8108 Archived-At: Subject: [netconf] Comments on draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities-0 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETCONF WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 10:04:44 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01D78604.330BC700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0035_01D78604.330BC700" ------=_NextPart_001_0035_01D78604.330BC700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, =93Capability values on a smaller, more specific part of the=20 server's data always override more generic values.=94 This not following the latest version of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities. Please check the = description of module ietf-system-capabilities. =20 2.1 tree diagram:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-cap= abi lities#section-4 states:=20 Every set of such capabilities SHOULD be wrapped in a container under the augment statement to cleanly separate different groups of capabilities. This is not followed in your augment of /sysc:system-capabilities =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-notification-cap= abi lities#section-4.2 states:=20 1) search for a datastore-capabilities list entry for the specific datastore. When stating a specific capability, the relative path for any specific capability must be the same under the system-capabilities container and under the per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for defining the capabilities MUST be used. Please follow that. Please specify every capability both on the under system-capabilities and under per-node-capabilities. A specific capability might always be defined on system or datastore or per-node level on your system, other systems might have a more granular capability set. Even if a capability is available on e.g. per-node = level, your system is free not to use it. =20 Why is this model valid only for telemetry? It should be usable for = other notifications too. E.g. transport-protocol or security is just as = relevant for any other notification. =20 What is event based subscription mode? What is coutner based trigger mode ? =20 suppress-redundant, this mechanism is not described. What is suppressed? =20 Regards Balazs =20 --=20 Balazs Lengyel Senior Specialist Ericsson Hungary Ltd.=20 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0035_01D78604.330BC700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

“Capability values on a smaller, more specific part of = the

server's data = always override more generic = values.”

This not following the =
latest version of draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities. Please =
check the description of module =
ietf-system-capabilities.
 
2.1 tree diagram: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-=
ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities#section-4 states: =

Every set of such capabilities SHOULD =
be
=A0=A0 wrapped in a container under the augment =
statement to cleanly
=A0=A0 separate different =
groups of capabilities.
This is not followed in =
your augment of =
/sysc:system-capabilities
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities#section-4.2 states: = 
1) search for a datastore-capabilities list entry =
for
=A0=A0=A0=A0 the specific datastore. When =
stating a specific capability, the
=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
relative path for any specific capability must be the =
same
=A0=A0=A0=A0 under the system-capabilities =
container and under the
=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
per-node-capabilities list: the same grouping for =
defining
=A0=A0=A0=A0 the capabilities MUST be =
used.
Please follow that. Please specify every =
capability both on the under system-capabilities and under =
per-node-capabilities.
A specific capability might =
always be defined on system or datastore or per-node level on your =
system, other systems might have a more granular capability set. Even if =
a capability is available on e.g. per-node level, your system is free =
not to use it.
 
Why is =
this model valid only for telemetry? It should be usable for other =
notifications too. E.g. transport-protocol or security is just as =
relevant for any other =
notification.
 
What is =
event based subscription mode?
What is coutner =
based trigger mode =
?
 
suppress-redundant, =
this mechanism is not described. What is =
suppressed?
 

Regards Balazs

 

-- =

Balazs = Lengyel=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Senior = Specialist=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 Ericsson Hungary Ltd.

Mobile: = +36-70-330-7909=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com

 

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