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From: "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>
To: "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Reliability & Availability in NetSling 
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 02:04:09 +0000
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Subject: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
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Hi All,

I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related materials. It see=
ms that "Reliability" supported by Netslicing refers to the probability tha=
t a network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn=
't this be the defination of "Availability"? Then what does reliability mea=
n in NetSlicing?


Best regards,

Cristina QIANG


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I was confused when I was readi=
ng some NetSlicing related materials. It seems that &#8220;Reliability&#822=
1; supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a network slice c=
ould work stably, or other similar metrics. But,
 shouldn&#8217;t this be the defination of &#8220;Availability&#8221;? Then=
 what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
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From: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
To: "'qiangli (D)'" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
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From nobody Wed Aug  9 21:42:18 2017
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:42:00 +0900
From: Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>
To: GENG Liang <liang.geng@hotmail.com>
Cc: "'qiangli (D)'" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/vW_kxu6eS8NoNj5rHfwIlDA3Nd4>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
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Dear all,

I personally think it is better to use the industrial definitions but,
being purist, we can find important differences between them. While
availability is the probability for a system to work as expected in some
period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader term that
refers to the different situations in which a system will be able to
overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can incorporate the
former, but not in all of them.

For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used by industry
with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that differentiate
them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of time" related
to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to reliability.

Regards,
Pedro


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:
> Hi Cristina,
> 
> Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few industrial partners recently. In telecommunication language we normally use "Reliability" to refer the probability a network is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of time). This is also regarded as network "Availability". However, "Reliability" in industrial verticals is more comprehensive - including not only network availability parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.
> 
> Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at network regime where I believe Reliability means the percentage of time a connection is available. But we you sell this concept to industrial verticals, they may think differently.
> 
> ________________________________
> Liang GENG
> China Mobile Research Institute
> 
> From: qiangli (D)<mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>
> Date: 2017-08-10 10:04
> To: netslices@ietf.org<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
> Hi All,
> 
> I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related materials. It seems that “Reliability” supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn’t this be the defination of “Availability”? Then what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Cristina QIANG
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Netslices mailing list
> Netslices@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices


-- 
Pedro Martinez-Julia
Network Science and Convergence Device Technology Laboratory
Network System Research Institute
National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT)
4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan
Email: pedro@nict.go.jp
---------------------------------------------------------
*** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem ***


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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
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In general at IETF we associate reliable with the probability of packet 
delivery, and a reliable transport protocol is one that retries (at a 
cost of delay) until the packet is delivered or other factors intervene. 
Availability tends to refer to the ability of the network to receive 
packets for attempted delivery.

I looked for a formal definition in IPPM which is the WG that is 
concerned with measuring such things but could not find a definition.

 From the ITU we can find:

*Term*:availability (performance)
*Definition*:The ability of an item to be in a state to perform a 
required function under given conditions at a given instant of time or 
over a given time interval, assuming that the required external 
resources are provided.
NOTE 1 – This ability depends on the combined aspects of the reliability 
performance, the maintainability performance and the maintenance support 
performance.
NOTE 2 – Required external resources, other than maintenance resources 
do not affect the availability performance of the item.



*Term*:reliability (performance)
*Definition*:The ability of an item to perform a required function under 
given conditions for a given time interval.
NOTE 1 – It is generally assumed that the item is in a state to perform 
this required function at the beginning of the time interval.
NOTE 2 – Generally, reliability performance is quantified using 
appropriate measures. In some applications, these measures include an 
expression of reliability performance as a probability, which is also 
called reliability.


or
*Term*:reliability characteristic
*Definition*:The Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a defined 
QOS requirement.


- Stewart

On 10/08/2017 05:42, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I personally think it is better to use the industrial definitions but,
> being purist, we can find important differences between them. While
> availability is the probability for a system to work as expected in some
> period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader term that
> refers to the different situations in which a system will be able to
> overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can incorporate the
> former, but not in all of them.
>
> For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used by industry
> with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that differentiate
> them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of time" related
> to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to reliability.
>
> Regards,
> Pedro
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:
>> Hi Cristina,
>>
>> Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few industrial partners recently. In telecommunication language we normally use "Reliability" to refer the probability a network is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of time). This is also regarded as network "Availability". However, "Reliability" in industrial verticals is more comprehensive - including not only network availability parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.
>>
>> Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at network regime where I believe Reliability means the percentage of time a connection is available. But we you sell this concept to industrial verticals, they may think differently.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Liang GENG
>> China Mobile Research Institute
>>
>> From: qiangli (D)<mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>
>> Date: 2017-08-10 10:04
>> To: netslices@ietf.org<mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related materials. It seems that “Reliability” supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn’t this be the defination of “Availability”? Then what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Cristina QIANG
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netslices mailing list
>> Netslices@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>


--------------9379BB7DE6D355342DCC149D
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    In general at IETF we associate reliable with the probability of
    packet delivery, and a reliable transport protocol is one that
    retries (at a cost of delay) until the packet is delivered or other
    factors intervene. Availability tends to refer to the ability of the
    network to receive packets for attempted delivery.<br>
    <br>
    I looked for a formal definition in IPPM which is the WG that is
    concerned with measuring such things but could not find a
    definition.<br>
    <br>
    From the ITU we can find:<br>
    <br>
    <table class="itur-header" style="font-family: &quot;Trebuchet
      MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; letter-spacing: normal;
      orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
      word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
      background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style:
      initial; text-decoration-color: initial;" cellspacing="0"
      cellpadding="3" width="97%">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td class="" dir="" style="font-size: smaller; font-family:
            &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font
              size="2"><strong>Term</strong><span> </span>:<span> </span><font
                color="#0000FF">availability (performance)</font></font></td>
        </tr>
        <tr>
          <td class="" dir="" style="font-size: smaller; font-family:
            &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font
              size="2"><strong>Definition</strong><span> </span>:<span> </span><font
                color="#0000FF">The ability of an item to be in a state
                to perform a required function under given conditions at
                a given instant of time or over a given time interval,
                assuming that the required external resources are
                provided.<br>
                NOTE 1 – This ability depends on the combined aspects of
                the reliability performance, the maintainability
                performance and the maintenance support performance.<span> </span><br>
                NOTE 2 – Required external resources, other than
                maintenance resources do not affect the availability
                performance of the item.</font></font></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
    <br>
    <br>
    <table class="itur-header" style="font-family: &quot;Trebuchet
      MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; letter-spacing: normal;
      orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
      word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
      background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style:
      initial; text-decoration-color: initial;" cellspacing="0"
      cellpadding="3" width="97%">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td class="" dir="" style="font-size: smaller; font-family:
            &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font
              size="2"><strong>Term</strong><span> </span>:<span> </span><font
                color="#0000FF">reliability (performance)</font></font></td>
        </tr>
        <tr>
          <td class="" dir="" style="font-size: smaller; font-family:
            &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font
              size="2"><strong>Definition</strong><span> </span>:<span> </span><font
                color="#0000FF">The ability of an item to perform a
                required function under given conditions for a given
                time interval.<br>
                NOTE 1 – It is generally assumed that the item is in a
                state to perform this required function at the beginning
                of the time interval.<br>
                NOTE 2 – Generally, reliability performance is
                quantified using appropriate measures. In some
                applications, these measures include an expression of
                reliability performance as a probability, which is also
                called reliability.</font></font></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
    <br>
    or<br>
    <table class="itur-header" style="font-family: &quot;Trebuchet
      MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; letter-spacing: normal;
      orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
      word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
      background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style:
      initial; text-decoration-color: initial;" cellspacing="0"
      cellpadding="3" width="97%">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td class="" dir="" style="font-size: smaller; font-family:
            &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font
              size="2"><strong>Term</strong><span> </span>:<span> </span><font
                color="#0000FF">reliability characteristic</font></font></td>
        </tr>
        <tr>
          <td class="" dir="" style="font-size: smaller; font-family:
            &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font
              size="2"><strong>Definition</strong><span> </span>:<span> </span><font
                color="#0000FF">The Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) to
                maintain a defined QOS requirement.</font></font></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/08/2017 05:42, Pedro
      Martinez-Julia wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:20170810044200.GB1828@spectre">
      <pre wrap="">Dear all,

I personally think it is better to use the industrial definitions but,
being purist, we can find important differences between them. While
availability is the probability for a system to work as expected in some
period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader term that
refers to the different situations in which a system will be able to
overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can incorporate the
former, but not in all of them.

For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used by industry
with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that differentiate
them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of time" related
to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to reliability.

Regards,
Pedro


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Hi Cristina,

Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few industrial partners recently. In telecommunication language we normally use "Reliability" to refer the probability a network is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of time). This is also regarded as network "Availability". However, "Reliability" in industrial verticals is more comprehensive - including not only network availability parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.

Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at network regime where I believe Reliability means the percentage of time a connection is available. But we you sell this concept to industrial verticals, they may think differently.

________________________________
Liang GENG
China Mobile Research Institute

From: qiangli (D)<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com">&lt;mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com&gt;</a>
Date: 2017-08-10 10:04
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a>
Subject: [Netslices] Reliability &amp; Availability in NetSling
Hi All,

I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related materials. It seems that “Reliability” supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn’t this be the defination of “Availability”? Then what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?


Best regards,

Cristina QIANG

</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Netslices mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org">Netslices@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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To: "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
References: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A5743F7@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com> <TY1PR06MB0928FED40F8D136737C6036187880@TY1PR06MB0928.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com> <20170810044200.GB1828@spectre> <17a7e36c-21c7-93ef-8058-573019280dfc@gmail.com> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A5745E2@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <af0cd20c-5747-31bf-cdc7-6af146bf2a87@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:26:17 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/4VBwsl6TQ1xI8qNd9_Qg2ryRrJY>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
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 From a tenant's perspective, which arguably is the most important 
perspective the key characteristics of interest is  surely "The Mean 
Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a defined QOS requirement." 
together with the duration of those periods.

With that information you can the viability of your application over the 
slice, and the impact on your business.

- Stewart


On 11/08/2017 08:47, qiangli (D) wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> The phrase “working as expected” inspired me. For a network slice, 
> what people expect is not only the stable working probability/time, 
> but also the guaranteed SLA.
>
> Try to consider from tenant’s perspective, I would be very concerned 
> about how much the promised SLA could really be achieved. I am not 
> sure which one (availability/reliability) this concept should belong 
> to according to ITU’s definitions.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Cristina QIANG
>
> *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Stewart Bryant
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:58 PM
> *To:* netslices@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
>
>
> In general at IETF we associate reliable with the probability of 
> packet delivery, and a reliable transport protocol is one that retries 
> (at a cost of delay) until the packet is delivered or other factors 
> intervene. Availability tends to refer to the ability of the network 
> to receive packets for attempted delivery.
>
> I looked for a formal definition in IPPM which is the WG that is 
> concerned with measuring such things but could not find a definition.
>
> From the ITU we can find:
>
> *Term* : availability (performance)
>
> *Definition* : The ability of an item to be in a state to perform a 
> required function under given conditions at a given instant of time or 
> over a given time interval, assuming that the required external 
> resources are provided.
> NOTE 1 – This ability depends on the combined aspects of the 
> reliability performance, the maintainability performance and the 
> maintenance support performance.
> NOTE 2 – Required external resources, other than maintenance resources 
> do not affect the availability performance of the item.
>
> *Term* : reliability (performance)
>
> *Definition* : The ability of an item to perform a required function 
> under given conditions for a given time interval.
> NOTE 1 – It is generally assumed that the item is in a state to 
> perform this required function at the beginning of the time interval.
> NOTE 2 – Generally, reliability performance is quantified using 
> appropriate measures. In some applications, these measures include an 
> expression of reliability performance as a probability, which is also 
> called reliability.
>
>
> or
>
> *Term* : reliability characteristic
>
> *Definition* : The Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a 
> defined QOS requirement.
>
>
> - Stewart
>
> On 10/08/2017 05:42, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     I personally think it is better to use the industrial definitions but,
>
>     being purist, we can find important differences between them. While
>
>     availability is the probability for a system to work as expected
>     in some
>
>     period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader term that
>
>     refers to the different situations in which a system will be able to
>
>     overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can
>     incorporate the
>
>     former, but not in all of them.
>
>     For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used by
>     industry
>
>     with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that
>     differentiate
>
>     them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of time"
>     related
>
>     to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to
>     reliability.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Pedro
>
>     On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:
>
>         Hi Cristina,
>
>         Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few
>         industrial partners recently. In telecommunication language we
>         normally use "Reliability" to refer the probability a network
>         is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of time). This is also regarded as
>         network "Availability". However, "Reliability" in industrial
>         verticals is more comprehensive - including not only network
>         availability parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.
>
>         Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at
>         network regime where I believe Reliability means the
>         percentage of time a connection is available. But we you sell
>         this concept to industrial verticals, they may think differently.
>
>         ________________________________
>
>         Liang GENG
>
>         China Mobile Research Institute
>
>         From: qiangli (D)<mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>
>         <mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>
>
>         Date: 2017-08-10 10:04
>
>         To: netslices@ietf.org
>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org><mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>
>         Subject: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
>
>         Hi All,
>
>         I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related
>         materials. It seems that “Reliability” supported by Netslicing
>         refers to the probability that a network slice could work
>         stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn’t this be the
>         defination of “Availability”? Then what does reliability mean
>         in NetSlicing?
>
>         Best regards,
>
>         Cristina QIANG
>
>         _______________________________________________
>
>         Netslices mailing list
>
>         Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>


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    <p><br>
    </p>
    From a tenant's perspective, which arguably is the most important
    perspective the key characteristics of interest is  surely "The Mean
    Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a defined QOS requirement."
    together with the duration of those periods.<br>
    <br>
    With that information you can the viability of your application over
    the slice, and the impact on your business.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/08/2017 08:47, qiangli (D) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A5745E2@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">The phrase “working as expected” inspired me.
            For a network slice, what people expect is not only the
            stable working probability/time, but also the guaranteed
            SLA. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Try to consider from tenant’s perspective, I
            would be very concerned about how much the promised SLA
            could really be achieved. I am not sure which one
            (availability/reliability) this concept should belong to
            according to ITU’s definitions.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Netslices
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stewart Bryant<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:58 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] Reliability &amp;
                Availability in NetSling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            lang="EN-US"><br>
            In general at IETF we associate reliable with the
            probability of packet delivery, and a reliable transport
            protocol is one that retries (at a cost of delay) until the
            packet is delivered or other factors intervene. Availability
            tends to refer to the ability of the network to receive
            packets for attempted delivery.<br>
            <br>
            I looked for a formal definition in IPPM which is the WG
            that is concerned with measuring such things but could not
            find a definition.<br>
            <br>
            From the ITU we can find:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable"
          style="width:97.0%;background:white;2;widows:
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          cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="97%" border="0">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Term</span></strong><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"
                    lang="EN-US">availability (performance)</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Definition</span></strong><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"
                    lang="EN-US">The ability of an item to be in a state
                    to perform a required function under given
                    conditions at a given instant of time or over a
                    given time interval, assuming that the required
                    external resources are provided.<br>
                    NOTE 1 – This ability depends on the combined
                    aspects of the reliability performance, the
                    maintainability performance and the maintenance
                    support performance. <br>
                    NOTE 2 – Required external resources, other than
                    maintenance resources do not affect the availability
                    performance of the item.</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable"
          style="width:97.0%;background:white;2;widows:
          2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style:
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          cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="97%" border="0">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Term</span></strong><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"
                    lang="EN-US">reliability (performance)</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Definition</span></strong><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"
                    lang="EN-US">The ability of an item to perform a
                    required function under given conditions for a given
                    time interval.<br>
                    NOTE 1 – It is generally assumed that the item is in
                    a state to perform this required function at the
                    beginning of the time interval.<br>
                    NOTE 2 – Generally, reliability performance is
                    quantified using appropriate measures. In some
                    applications, these measures include an expression
                    of reliability performance as a probability, which
                    is also called reliability.</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
            or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable"
          style="width:97.0%;background:white;2;widows:
          2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style:
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          cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="97%" border="0">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Term</span></strong><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"
                    lang="EN-US">reliability characteristic</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Definition</span></strong><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"
                    lang="EN-US">The Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF)
                    to maintain a defined QOS requirement.</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            lang="EN-US"><br>
            - Stewart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 10/08/2017 05:42,
              Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">I personally think it is better to use the industrial definitions but,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">being purist, we can find important differences between them. While<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">availability is the probability for a system to work as expected in some<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader term that<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">refers to the different situations in which a system will be able to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can incorporate the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">former, but not in all of them.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used by industry<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that differentiate<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of time" related<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to reliability.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">Pedro<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US">On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Hi Cristina,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few industrial partners recently. In telecommunication language we normally use "Reliability" to refer the probability a network is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of time). This is also regarded as network "Availability". However, "Reliability" in industrial verticals is more comprehensive - including not only network availability parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at network regime where I believe Reliability means the percentage of time a connection is available. But we you sell this concept to industrial verticals, they may think differently.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Liang GENG<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">China Mobile Research Institute<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">From: qiangli (D)<a href="mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Date: 2017-08-10 10:04<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">To: <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a><a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;mailto:netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Subject: [Netslices] Reliability &amp; Availability in NetSling<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related materials. It seems that “Reliability” supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn’t this be the defination of “Availability”? Then what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Netslices mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
          <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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To: "qiangli (D)" <qiangli3@huawei.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>
Cc: =?UTF-8?B?TGlhbmcgR2VuZyB8IOiAv+S6rg==?= <gengliang@chinamobile.com>, 'Pedro Martinez-Julia' <pedro@nict.go.jp>
References: <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A5743F7@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com> <TY1PR06MB0928FED40F8D136737C6036187880@TY1PR06MB0928.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com> <20170810044200.GB1828@spectre> <17a7e36c-21c7-93ef-8058-573019280dfc@gmail.com> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A5745E2@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com> <af0cd20c-5747-31bf-cdc7-6af146bf2a87@gmail.com> <06C389826B926F48A557D5DB5A54C4ED2A579B55@dggemi509-mbs.china.huawei.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netslices/kxwpYYVq8vLWq9O1-zCkqgcpTtk>
Subject: Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
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Well, we do need a definition to point to even if we reuse an existing 
definition. That way we all have a common understanding of the term and 
can provide a common explanation to the tenants.

- Stewart


On 14/08/2017 04:53, qiangli (D) wrote:
>
> Hi Stewart and All,
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. According to your information, it seems 
> that the words “reliability” is more suitable for the context of 
> network slicing with SLA guarantee.
>
> As Liang mentioned, industrial verticals and other partners have 
> different views on “reliability”. Even within IETF, different WGs may 
> have different understandings. A standardized definition of 
> “reliability” in NetSlicing scope is quite necessary IMHO, then NS 
> service provider can further classify the “reliability” and adopt the 
> appropriateimplementation technology accordingly. I would like to know 
> your opinion on this, and do we need to define the slicing specific 
> “reliability”?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Cristina QIANG
>
> *From:*Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2017 4:26 PM
> *To:* qiangli (D); netslices@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
>
> From a tenant's perspective, which arguably is the most important 
> perspective the key characteristics of interest is  surely "The Mean 
> Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a defined QOS requirement." 
> together with the duration of those periods.
>
> With that information you can the viability of your application over 
> the slice, and the impact on your business.
>
> - Stewart
>
> On 11/08/2017 08:47, qiangli (D) wrote:
>
>     Hi All,
>
>     The phrase “working as expected” inspired me. For a network slice,
>     what people expect is not only the stable working
>     probability/time, but also the guaranteed SLA.
>
>     Try to consider from tenant’s perspective, I would be very
>     concerned about how much the promised SLA could really be
>     achieved. I am not sure which one (availability/reliability) this
>     concept should belong to according to ITU’s definitions.
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     Cristina QIANG
>
>     *From:*Netslices [mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of
>     *Stewart Bryant
>     *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:58 PM
>     *To:* netslices@ietf.org <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
>
>
>     In general at IETF we associate reliable with the probability of
>     packet delivery, and a reliable transport protocol is one that
>     retries (at a cost of delay) until the packet is delivered or
>     other factors intervene. Availability tends to refer to the
>     ability of the network to receive packets for attempted delivery.
>
>     I looked for a formal definition in IPPM which is the WG that is
>     concerned with measuring such things but could not find a definition.
>
>     From the ITU we can find:
>
>     *Term* : availability (performance)
>
>     *Definition* : The ability of an item to be in a state to perform
>     a required function under given conditions at a given instant of
>     time or over a given time interval, assuming that the required
>     external resources are provided.
>     NOTE 1 –This ability depends on the combined aspects of the
>     reliability performance, the maintainability performance and the
>     maintenance support performance.
>     NOTE 2 –Required external resources, other than maintenance
>     resources do not affect the availability performance of the item.
>
>     *Term* : reliability (performance)
>
>     *Definition* : The ability of an item to perform a required
>     function under given conditions for a given time interval.
>     NOTE 1 –It is generally assumed that the item is in a state to
>     perform this required function at the beginning of the time interval.
>     NOTE 2 –Generally, reliability performance is quantified using
>     appropriate measures. In some applications, these measures include
>     an expression of reliability performance as a probability, which
>     is also called reliability.
>
>
>     or
>
>     *Term* : reliability characteristic
>
>     *Definition* : The Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a
>     defined QOS requirement.
>
>
>     - Stewart
>
>     On 10/08/2017 05:42, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
>
>         Dear all,
>
>         I personally think it is better to use the industrial
>         definitions but,
>
>         being purist, we can find important differences between them.
>         While
>
>         availability is the probability for a system to work as
>         expected in some
>
>         period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader
>         term that
>
>         refers to the different situations in which a system will be
>         able to
>
>         overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can
>         incorporate the
>
>         former, but not in all of them.
>
>         For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used
>         by industry
>
>         with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that
>         differentiate
>
>         them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of
>         time" related
>
>         to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to
>         reliability.
>
>         Regards,
>
>         Pedro
>
>         On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:
>
>             Hi Cristina,
>
>             Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few
>             industrial partners recently. In telecommunication
>             language we normally use "Reliability" to refer the
>             probability a network is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of
>             time). This is also regarded as network "Availability".
>             However, "Reliability" in industrial verticals is more
>             comprehensive - including not only network availability
>             parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.
>
>             Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at
>             network regime where I believe Reliability means the
>             percentage of time a connection is available. But we you
>             sell this concept to industrial verticals, they may think
>             differently.
>
>             ________________________________
>
>             Liang GENG
>
>             China Mobile Research Institute
>
>             From: qiangli (D)<mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>
>             <mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com>
>
>             Date: 2017-08-10 10:04
>
>             To: netslices@ietf.org
>             <mailto:netslices@ietf.org><mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>             <mailto:netslices@ietf.org>
>
>             Subject: [Netslices] Reliability & Availability in NetSling
>
>             Hi All,
>
>             I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related
>             materials. It seems that “Reliability”supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a
>             network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics.
>             But, shouldn’t this be the defination of “Availability”? Then what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?
>
>             Best regards,
>
>             Cristina QIANG
>
>             _______________________________________________
>
>             Netslices mailing list
>
>             Netslices@ietf.org <mailto:Netslices@ietf.org>
>
>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices
>


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    <p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Well, we do need a
        definition to point to even if we reuse an existing definition.
        That way we all have a common understanding of the term and can
        provide a common explanation to the tenants.<br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">- Stewart</font><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/08/2017 04:53, qiangli (D) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Hi Stewart and All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Thank you for your suggestion. According to
            your information, it seems that the words “reliability” is
            more suitable for the context of network slicing with SLA
            guarantee. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">As Liang mentioned, industrial verticals and
            other partners have different views on “reliability”. Even
            within IETF, different WGs may have different
            understandings. A standardized definition of “reliability”
            in NetSlicing scope is quite necessary IMHO, then NS service
            provider can further classify the “reliability” and adopt
            the appropriate</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#333333;background:white"
            lang="EN-US">
          </span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">implementation technology accordingly. I would
            like to know your opinion on this, and do we need to define
            the slicing specific “reliability”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Stewart Bryant
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 11, 2017 4:26 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> qiangli (D); <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] Reliability &amp;
                Availability in NetSling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            lang="EN-US">From a tenant's perspective, which arguably is
            the most important perspective the key characteristics of
            interest is  surely "The Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF)
            to maintain a defined QOS requirement." together with the
            duration of those periods.<br>
            <br>
            With that information you can the viability of your
            application over the slice, and the impact on your business.<br>
            <br>
            - Stewart<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 11/08/2017 08:47,
              qiangli (D) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">Hi All,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">The phrase “working as expected” inspired me.
              For a network slice, what people expect is not only the
              stable working probability/time, but also the guaranteed
              SLA. </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US">Try to consider from tenant’s perspective, I
              would be very concerned about how much the promised SLA
              could really be achieved. I am not sure which one
              (availability/reliability) this concept should belong to
              according to ITU’s definitions.
            </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                lang="EN-US">Best regards,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                lang="EN-US">Cristina QIANG</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                    lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US"> Netslices [<a
                    href="mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:netslices-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                  <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stewart Bryant<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:58 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Netslices] Reliability &amp;
                  Availability in NetSling</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              In general at IETF we associate reliable with the
              probability of packet delivery, and a reliable transport
              protocol is one that retries (at a cost of delay) until
              the packet is delivered or other factors intervene.
              Availability tends to refer to the ability of the network
              to receive packets for attempted delivery.<br>
              <br>
              I looked for a formal definition in IPPM which is the WG
              that is concerned with measuring such things but could not
              find a definition.<br>
              <br>
              From the ITU we can find:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <table class="MsoNormalTable"
            style="width:97.0%;background:white;2;widows:
            2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style:
            initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"
            cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="97%" border="0">
            <tbody>
              <tr>
                <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                        MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                        lang="EN-US">Term</span></strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                      lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">availability
                      (performance)</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr>
                <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                        MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                        lang="EN-US">Definition</span></strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                      lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">The ability
                      of an item to be in a state to perform a required
                      function under given conditions at a given instant
                      of time or over a given time interval, assuming
                      that the required external resources are provided.<br>
                      NOTE 1 </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">–<span
                        lang="EN-US"> This ability depends on the
                        combined aspects of the reliability performance,
                        the maintainability performance and the
                        maintenance support performance. <br>
                        NOTE 2 </span>–<span lang="EN-US"> Required
                        external resources, other than maintenance
                        resources do not affect the availability
                        performance of the item.</span></span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
            </tbody>
          </table>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <table class="MsoNormalTable"
            style="width:97.0%;background:white;2;widows:
            2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style:
            initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"
            cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="97%" border="0">
            <tbody>
              <tr>
                <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                        MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                        lang="EN-US">Term</span></strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                      lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">reliability
                      (performance)</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr>
                <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                        MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                        lang="EN-US">Definition</span></strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                      lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">The ability
                      of an item to perform a required function under
                      given conditions for a given time interval.<br>
                      NOTE 1 </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">–<span
                        lang="EN-US"> It is generally assumed that the
                        item is in a state to perform this required
                        function at the beginning of the time interval.<br>
                        NOTE 2 </span>–<span lang="EN-US"> Generally,
                        reliability performance is quantified using
                        appropriate measures. In some applications,
                        these measures include an expression of
                        reliability performance as a probability, which
                        is also called reliability.</span></span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
            </tbody>
          </table>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
              or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <table class="MsoNormalTable"
            style="width:97.0%;background:white;2;widows:
            2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style:
            initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"
            cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="97%" border="0">
            <tbody>
              <tr>
                <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                        MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                        lang="EN-US">Term</span></strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                      lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">reliability
                      characteristic</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr>
                <td style="padding:2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt 2.25pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                        MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                        lang="EN-US">Definition</span></strong><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS , sans-serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
                      lang="EN-US"> : </span><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">The Mean
                      Time Between Failures (MTBF) to maintain a defined
                      QOS requirement.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
            </tbody>
          </table>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              - Stewart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 10/08/2017 05:42,
                Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">I personally think it is better to use the industrial definitions but,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">being purist, we can find important differences between them. While<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">availability is the probability for a system to work as expected in some<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">period of time (99.999% of time), reliability is a broader term that<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">refers to the different situations in which a system will be able to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">overcome without breaking. In some cases, the latter can incorporate the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">former, but not in all of them.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">For network slicing we can keep the definition commonly used by industry<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">with the necessary details to make clear the aspects that differentiate<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">them. I would keep "working as expected for some period of time" related<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">to availability and "resistant to disparate situations" to reliability.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">Pedro<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US">On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 02:44:09AM +0000, GENG Liang wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Hi Cristina,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Interestingly we were discussing this confusion with few industrial partners recently. In telecommunication language we normally use "Reliability" to refer the probability a network is stably run (i.e. 99.999% of time). This is also regarded as network "Availability". However, "Reliability" in industrial verticals is more comprehensive - including not only network availability parameter but also mechanics, electricity etc.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Personally I think, network slicing is still looking at network regime where I believe Reliability means the percentage of time a connection is available. But we you sell this concept to industrial verticals, they may think differently.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Liang GENG<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">China Mobile Research Institute<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">From: qiangli (D)<a href="mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;mailto:qiangli3@huawei.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Date: 2017-08-10 10:04<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">To: <a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">netslices@ietf.org</a><a href="mailto:netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;mailto:netslices@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Subject: [Netslices] Reliability &amp; Availability in NetSling<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">I was confused when I was reading some NetSlicing related materials. It seems that </span>“<span lang="EN-US">Reliability</span>”<span lang="EN-US"> supported by Netslicing refers to the probability that a network slice could work stably, or other similar metrics. But, shouldn</span>’<span lang="EN-US">t this be the defination of </span>“<span lang="EN-US">Availability</span>”<span lang="EN-US">? Then what does reliability mean in NetSlicing?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Cristina QIANG<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Netslices mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Netslices@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Netslices@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netslices</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
            <pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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