Subject: [nmrg] Looking for two IRSG reviewers for draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-04.txt
From: "Bert Wijnen - IETF" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: Nmrg <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:37:36 +0100
List-Id: Network Management Research Group <nmrg.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>

This document has completed NMRG review, and the RG has
consensus to request publication of this document as
an Informational RFC.

According the the process described at:

   http://tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/IRTF-RFCs#IRTFRFCProcess

we have completed the RG review.
we are now at ready for the next step, namely to ask 2 IRSG members for
review. This is step 3 of the process under:

   http://tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/IRTF-RFCs#IRSGReview

So can we please have two reviewers.

The document's progress is tracked at

   http://www3.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/ticket/9

The document is located at:

   http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-04.txt.

Document Shepherd:      Bert Wijnen ([email-masked])
Intended status:        Informational
Document author/editor: Juergen Schoenwaelder
([email-masked])
NMRG chair:             Juergen Schoenwaelder
IRSG revieweres:        To be found as a result of this email
Pointers to RG reviews: See change history in this tracker item 9.

Bert Wijnen
Document Shepherd

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:56:32 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [nmrg] philly meeting minutes
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi,

I have put the draft meeting minutes online at the following location:

http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nmrg/minutes/minutes-024.txt

Please take a look and let me know if anything needs modification.
Special thanks to Randy for getting his notes to me quickly.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:30:33 +0100
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Resent-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:30:01 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: [email-masked]
Subject: [nmrg] I-D Action:draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-04.txt 
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

	Title           : SNMP Traffic Measurements and Trace Exchange Formats
	Author(s)       : J. Schoenwaelder
	Filename        : draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-04.txt
	Pages           : 23
	Date            : 2008-03-17

The Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP) is widely deployed to
monitor, control and (sometimes also) configure network elements.
Even though the SNMP technology is well documented, it remains
relatively unclear how SNMP is used in practice and what typical SNMP
usage patterns are.

This document proposes to carry out large scale SNMP traffic
measurements in order to develop a better understanding how SNMP is
used in real world production networks.  It describes the motivation,
the measurement approach, and the tools and data formats needed to
carry out such a study.

This document was produced within the IRTF's Network Management
Research Group (NMRG) and represents the consensus of all of the
active contributors to this group.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
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	access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

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_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
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Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: [nmrg] meeting agenda and materials
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:07:50 -0700
From: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>

Hello Juergen,

unfortunately I couldn't attend the meeting - had to fly out yesterday.

Just as quick feedback:

* Yes it makes sense and is useful.  (That said, I do think there is at
least a certain amount of stability already by virtue of each new
generation of TPC chairs in many cases starting from the earlier TPCs as
basis; still it will be useful.)  It will also help identify prior
research in a particular area 

* Would it make sense to also add a topic that indicates a "perspective"
- e.g. an operations perspective from a "user" who is managing
something, versus an implementation perspective from a "provider" or
"implementor" who provides capabilities to be used by someone else.
Clearly the two are related; generally the former is needed to motivated
the latter; at the same time most research papers take the "implementor"
perspective (not the operations perspective), still it might be useful
as a distinction criteria.  

* In terms of the next steps of how to "implement" the taxonomy, I would
think this is something that will be hard to "enforce" and the model
will be more one of serving as an "enabler", in which case it simply has
to be made available in a public space, raise awareness that it is there
(and having an easy way to make updates to keep it current), and then as
you suggest start with the events that you have mentioned (which already
have involvement from people from NMRG) to simply start using them.
Just my $0.02 (or Euro 0.01:-) 

--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:34 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [nmrg] meeting agenda and materials

Hi,

for some reason I can't upload the NMRG agenda and the presentations to
the meeting materials via the meeting materials manager. So I have
placed everything on the NMRG meeting web page:

http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nmrg/meetings/2008/philadelphia/

We will need a note taker and a jabber scribe/relay. Volunteers are
welcome.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
--
!! This message is brought to you via the `nmrg' mailing list.
!! Please do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. To unsubscribe or
adjust !! your settings, send a mail message to
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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:33:56 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [nmrg] meeting agenda and materials
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi,

for some reason I can't upload the NMRG agenda and the presentations
to the meeting materials via the meeting materials manager. So I have
placed everything on the NMRG meeting web page:

http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nmrg/meetings/2008/philadelphia/

We will need a note taker and a jabber scribe/relay. Volunteers are
welcome.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Subject: RE: [nmrg] RE: draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-03.txt - next steps
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:59:13 -0500
From: "Medhi, Deep" <[email-masked]>
To: "Bert Wijnen - IETF" <[email-masked]>
Cc: Nmrg <[email-masked]>

Hi Bert,
	I've looked through the latest version. Looks OK to me.
	Thanks.

		-- Deep Medhi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]
> bs.de] On Behalf Of Bert Wijnen - IETF
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:05 AM
> To: Medhi, Deep
> Cc: Nmrg
> Subject: FW: [nmrg] RE: draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-03.txt - next
> steps
> 
> Medhi,
> 
> Juergen has answered your comments as per
>   http://mail.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/pipermail/nmrg/2007-December/001269.html
> 
> I think the new document is ready for publication now.
> 
> If you do want to recheck, pls do so before Match 13 2008
> 
> Bert Wijnen
> document shepherd
> 
> --
> !! This message is brought to you via the `nmrg' mailing list.
> !! Please do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. To unsubscribe
> or adjust
> !! your settings, send a mail message to
<[email-masked]>
> !! or look at https://mail.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/mailman/listinfo/nmrg.

From: "Bert Wijnen - IETF" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [nmrg] philadelphia meeting agenda
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:29:33 +0100
Importance: Normal

If I will be in Philly (and still on Friday), then I 
can ay a few word on tatus of the snmp-measure document
   draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure
But it is still unclear if I will/can make it.
Airlines are giving me a hard time to find a reasonable flight
to/from Philly for my frequent flyrer miles.
I am still trying.

Bert Wijnen 

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: [email-masked]
> [mailto:[email-masked]]Namens Juergen Schoenwaelder
> Verzonden: dinsdag 4 maart 2008 13:46
> Aan: [email-masked]
> Onderwerp: [nmrg] philadelphia meeting agenda
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have posted a draft agenda for the Philadelphia meeting on the NMRG
> web site:
> 
> http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nmrg/meetings/2008/philadelphia/
> 
> Bert, are you actually available to say a few words concerning the
> status of the ID you are shepherding? I have allocated 5 minutes for
> that.
> 
> /js
> 
> PS: Since the NMRG is not an IETF working group, we can't directly
>     link the agenda to the meeting web page.
> 
> -- 
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> -- 
> !! This message is brought to you via the `nmrg' mailing list.
> !! Please do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. To 
> unsubscribe or adjust
> !! your settings, send a mail message to <[email-masked]>
> !! or look at https://mail.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/mailman/listinfo/nmrg.
> 

Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:46:27 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [nmrg] philadelphia meeting agenda
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi,

I have posted a draft agenda for the Philadelphia meeting on the NMRG
web site:

http://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nmrg/meetings/2008/philadelphia/

Bert, are you actually available to say a few words concerning the
status of the ID you are shepherding? I have allocated 5 minutes for
that.

/js

PS: Since the NMRG is not an IETF working group, we can't directly
    link the agenda to the meeting web page.

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

From: "Bert Wijnen - IETF" <[email-masked]>
To: "Sharon Chisholm" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [nmrg] RE: NMRG Last Call: draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-01.txtforInformational RFC
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:34:40 +0100
Importance: Normal
Cc: Nmrg <[email-masked]>

Sharon, if you want to re-check, pls do so before 13 march
The current revision is rev 03.

Bert Wijnen 
document shepherd

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 7 december 2007 12:32
> Aan: Sharon Chisholm
> CC: Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> Onderwerp: Re: [nmrg] RE: NMRG Last Call:
> draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-01.txtforInformational RFC
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2007 at 02:13:47PM -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:
>  
> > My comments are embedded in the attachment. It will be interesting to
> > get the results of this analysis.
> 
> I have addressed most of your comments - some were already raised by
> others and were already resolved; since you provided comments in PDF
> annotations, I can't easily go through them and I suggest you diff the
> next version of the ID and check that I got things right.
> 
> The XSD is not in the subversion repository; I am not including it
> into the document since this makes the document much longer, leads to
> questions in case there would be inconsistencies, and the XSD is
> finally just the output of trang anyway (so easy to reproduce).
> 
> /js
> 
> -- 
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> 

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:11:54 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: Mark Burgess <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [nmrg] FW: RE: NMRG Last Call: draft-irtf-nmrg-snmp-measure-01.txt forInformational RFC
Mail-Followup-To: Mark Burgess <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], Mark Burgess <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Friday, Feb 16, 2007, Mark Burgess wrote:

> Here are my comments:

It seems I did not respond to your comments - at least I can't find a
response in my personal archive. So let me respond now...
 
> It is unclear from the title of the document that this is a proposal
> for a future study, with guidelines and recommendations. The title
> suggests that the document will provide some answers, but it does not.

I am not sure why the title suggests results. I think it is pretty
neutral and there were no other comments asking for changing the
title.  So I keep it as is.

> On p.2 "This document descirbes an effort to collect...." Is the
> effort past, present or future?

The wording has changed to "This document proposes to carry out large
scale SNMP traffic measurements in order to ...".

> Also, it claims to descrie tools etc, but I am not sure that these
> have been highlighted clearly enough in the text.

There is no detailed description of tools since RFCs usually do not
intent to replace manual pages or proper handbooks. The text does
mention useful tools and provides pointers for further information, so
I think the sentence is acceptable.

> It is also not clear from the document what the point of the study
> would be. Why are we carrying out the study? Some time is spent to
> criticize the state of previous measurements, but these comments are
> not followed up in the conclusion to indicate how the proposed study
> would be an improvement.

Section 3 is all about the why.

> p4. What is the reason for capturing a full week of data? To be able
> to observe the widely observed trends in activity over a week. 

Yes.

> in this case measurements should always be collected in time-spans
> of whole-weeks so that multiple measurements can be compared at
> corresponding times.

The text says:

   It is recommended to capture at least a full week of data.  Operators
   are encouraged to capture traces over even longer periods of time.

The second sentence clearly encourages longer capture periods. In many
cases, the end times of captures are determined by some independent
event (such as disk full or a required reboot ;-).

> On p6. 2.4 some very specfific technologies are mentioned. Is it
> necessary to be this specific?

I don't think it hurts.

> Also in 2.5, I am not sure why we need to mention Perl or C/C++.

The wording of this text has been changed to be less Perl specific.

> On p8 sec 3.2, is the title meant to be "periodic versus aperiodic
> SNMP traffic"? i.e. is this the traffice caused by polling overhead of
> udp/snmp or is this some other traffic. If so why could it be periodic?

Management systems usually poll certain statistics periodically.
Independent of this period traffic, we expect aperiodic traffic caused
by humans interacting with the management system or by management
systems taking automated actions based on some detected events.

> After section 3.12 I lost interest in the details of the schemas.

Understandable. ;-)

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>