Subject: Re: [nmrg] NMRG Virtual Meeting May 2019 - Minutes

From: Jérôme François <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:55:14 +0200

Dear all,

I would like to consitute a team to work on the second item (Network AI challenge).
If you are interested please let me know.

Best regards
jerome

On 24/05/2019 17:47, Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Please find below and at: 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-nmrg-05/materials/minutes-interim-2019-nmrg-05-201905231700
>
> or here if you prefer the Etherpad version: 
> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/nmrg-virtual-20190523
>
> the minutes of our virtual meeting held on May 23^th , 2019.
>
> *_Summary of main action points:_*
>
>  1. Dean to formalize a problem statement on "residual configurations" and see
>     relevance to add this item to the work plan.
>  2. Creation of a team tasked to document the Network AI Challenge framework.
>  3. Chairs: propose refined work plan and milestones for approval
>
> We will soon send a doodle poll for the next meeting in June/July.
>
> Thanks to all the participants, to Jéferson for the minutes, and looking forward 
> to the next virtual/physical meetings.
>
> Best regards, Laurent.
>
> ---
>
> NMRG Virtual Meeting May 2019
>
> Thursday 23-05-2019 17:00-19-00 CEST
>
> Participants (12):
>
> Laurent Ciavaglia (co-chair, Nokia), Jérôme François (co-chair, INRIA), Jeferson 
> Nobre (secretary, UFRGS), Dean Bogdanovic (Volta Networks), Jeff Tantsura 
> (Apstra), Egemen Cetinkaya (Verizon); Julien Maisonneuve (Nokia), Sabine 
> Randriamasy (Nokia), Luis Contreras (Telefonica), Vishnu Ram (Technical 
> Consultant, ITU-T ML5G FG), Shagufta Henna (TSSG), Alex Clemm (Huawei)
>
> Useful links:
>
> * Agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2019-nmrg-05-nmrg-01/
>
> * Materials: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-nmrg-05/session/nmrg
>
> * Webex: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m3749c133247f0efd650133795d261af1
>
> * Etherpad: https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/nmrg-virtual-20190523
>
> Agenda:
>
> 05min. - Short introduction of new co-chair: Jérôme.
>
> 05min. - Status of the WG, next meetings, etc.
>
> 60min. - Status progress on Intent Based Networking topic
>
> IBN some challenges and research directions
>
> Work plan refinement
>
> 20min. - Network AI Challenge project
>
> Interest expressed from Vishnu Ram (ITU-T ML5G FG)
>
> Draft framework, Jérôme & Laurent
>
> 15min. - Modus Operandi for virtual meetings
>
> What is working well and not
>
> Dedicated meeting per topic? Alternate meetings per time zone
>
> Input: more proactive, only presentations or something more/different
>
> Output: minutes and actions, need more?
>
> How to follow-up between meetings? I-D updates, central place for work plan, 
> progress and issue tracking, back-end / front-end
>
> xxmin. - Any other business?
>
> Meeting notes:
>
>  - Agenda bashing
>
>  - Jérôme presentation
>
> ****************************************************
>
> IBN some challenges and research directions
>
> Dean: In respect to intent from existing systems, there is configuration in the 
> system... Old rules that are still in the systems and are not relevant anymore.
>
> Need some sort of "garbage collector"
>
> Jeff: what is the single source of truth? What the delta of the intent state and 
> the operational state?
>
> The brown field is a complex topic.
>
> There are known frameworks for ACL (references?)
>
> Dean: Single source of truth is the configuration files which are written by 
> humans, but which becomes lost because people leave the organization. Hard 
> problem as seen by people from the operational side.
>
> Jeff: API for users to express the intent...
>
> Laurent: from legacy point of view, it is needed a path to enable the 
> interopetation in order to perform intent extraction from the CLI. It is 
> necessary more data to analyse it.
>
> Jeff: I don't see how to do this fully automatic (intent extraction?).
>
> Jeff: It is needed to reach consensus in distributed systems (refer to slide 10) 
> about the intent state across the system,
>
> Cannot rely on a centralized entity, so have to degin/evaluate a system based on 
> consensus with distributed entities and see the cost ratio (performance vs. 
> complexity).
>
> Stateless and central entity, could be path for lots or research.
>
> Jeff: Planning changes through intent, how it is done? Telemetry framework being 
> proposed by the IETF, it could be some colaboration.
>
> abstracting the view from telemetry and linking to the intent deployment.
>
> Dean: updates on intent, how they would work?
>
> Jeff:?
>
> Laurent: it depends how dependencies on intent would be formulated.
>
> Dean: Intent as an atomic action avoids the dependecies problem.
>
> Laurent: there will be relationships among intents, this could be included in 
> the workplan.
>
> ******************
>
> - IBN Work Plan
>
> Jeff: terminology first.
>
> Dean: garbage colection routine, potentially added to the work plan?
>
> Laurent: formalize the problem and see from there.
>
> **************************
>
> - Network AI Challenge
>
> Vishnu: Uses cases, we have analyzed several use cases considering 5G e future 
> networks.
>
> Vishnu: ITU Focus group on this topic.
>
> Vishnu: We want to participate in the defintions of any of this aspects.
>
> Laurent: form a team to define/document the Network AI challenge.
>
> Jéferson: how do you think that we should pursue that? as a draft?
>
> Laurent: no specific recommendation on form, could be draft, doc, slides
>
> Eventually, if useful to document challenge framework as an I-D to be re-usable.
>
> Dean: would rather see a challenge linking IBN and autonomic networking, incl. 
> ANIMA. more realistic, indutry expectations.
>
> Jeff: I could be interested if it is not too general (AI challenge)
>
> Laurent: Jérôme  would be involved (lead co-chair on the project).
>
> Vishnu ok to be part of the team.
>
> - Virtual meetings
>
> Laurent: wnat to know areas of improvement, what we can do to have 
> efficient/useful meeting. propose issue/topic for more in-depth discussion 
> during the meeting.
>
> Jeff: some level of project management would be great
>
> Jéferson: forming teams maybe would be helpul to track advances
>
> Alex: Meetings are fine
>
> Laurent: careful no to slide to some traditional project management and to no 
> create 'groups within the group" with the design teams.
>
> But if this is what the RG is aksing we will implement that.
>
> Laurent: Virutal meetings specific for IBN?
>
> Dean: ?
>
>
> This body part will be downloaded on demand.