From jmh@joelhalpern.com Tue Jan 7 13:16:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23871AE1EA for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:16:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ju-eni2kwcQc for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:16:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0FB1AE1DE for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2BE5822F4 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:16:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-135-17.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.135.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DFDFB5822EA for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:16:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52CC6E97.8060100@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 16:16:07 -0500 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nsc@ietf.org" References: <20131230110313.8408.79475.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20131230110313.8408.79475.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [nsc] I-D Action: draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00.txt X-BeenThere: nsc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:16:23 -0000 While the problems described in this draft are interesting, many of them are purely application problems, such as VNF state synchronization. I would hope that this is out of scope for this working group. Similarly, there are many ways to do load balancing, capacity addition, and coping with capacity loss. I would hope we will not be prescriptive in this regard. I would hope that we will deal with the OAM issues that arise in managing the service chaining inbfrastructure. Yours, Joel M. Halpern PS: I find the specific assertions in the draft about what kinds of redundancy specific mechanisms support confusing. I suspect that the assertions flow from specific assumptions about the delivery architecture, as there are many architectures which do not suffer from the gaps identified in the text and summary. On 12/30/13 6:03 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : NFV High-Availability Technologies Gap Analysis > Author : Yang Wang > Filename : draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00.txt > Pages : 19 > Date : 2013-12-30 > > Abstract: > High-Availability (HA) is a very important requirement throughout the > history of carrier network, many technologies have emerged for it. > With the trend of Network Function Virtualization (NFV), network > function are migrated from dedicated hardware to software running > over COTS servers, the same SLA of HA should be provided depending on > network service itself. But some new challenges are brought by NFV, > one example is Virtualized Network Function (VNF) cluster caused by > the HA and performance limitation of individual VNF instance. For > the VNF cluster, some gaps exist between with the available HA > technologies on issues of multi-homing, state synchronization, share- > risk prevention and HA role election, especially in the network which > has a large scale deployment of NFV. > > This document firstly identifies the challenges emerged within NFV > deployed networks. Then, available HA technologies are reviewed and > the detailed gap analysis between them with the new challenges is > discussed in depth. At last, the summary of these gaps is presented. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From adrian@olddog.co.uk Tue Jan 7 14:04:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691AF1AE212 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 14:04:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o6OB14LbuFdl for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 14:04:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632F91AE20E for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 14:04:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s07M4Tra018080; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:04:30 GMT Received: from 950129200 (108.26.90.92.rev.sfr.net [92.90.26.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s07M4RAh018061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:04:28 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Joel M. Halpern'" , Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:04:30 -0000 Message-ID: <020701cf0bf4$71f54960$55dfdc20$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac8L9B4bhO4JIkDYQ3ucbNz1m9O6ag== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: No Subject: Re: [nsc] I-D Action: draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00.txt X-BeenThere: nsc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 22:04:42 -0000 Hi Joel, I believe this discussion is happening in the context of the VNFpool mailing list. That list (which is not a WG list) is exploring issues and ideas around VNF redundancy etc. You're right that doing such for stateful network service functions sounds like "a challenge". IMHO this is not in (or close to) the current charter of the SFC working group. Although I can see issues of availability of service nodes being of at least peripheral concern, I would hope that this WG does not get wrapped around that particular axle to the detriment of the core function. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: nsc [mailto:nsc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: 07 January 2014 21:16 > To: nsc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nsc] I-D Action: draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00.txt > > While the problems described in this draft are interesting, many of them > are purely application problems, such as VNF state synchronization. I > would hope that this is out of scope for this working group. > > Similarly, there are many ways to do load balancing, capacity addition, > and coping with capacity loss. I would hope we will not be prescriptive > in this regard. > > I would hope that we will deal with the OAM issues that arise in > managing the service chaining inbfrastructure. > > Yours, > Joel M. Halpern > > PS: I find the specific assertions in the draft about what kinds of > redundancy specific mechanisms support confusing. I suspect that the > assertions flow from specific assumptions about the delivery > architecture, as there are many architectures which do not suffer from > the gaps identified in the text and summary. > > On 12/30/13 6:03 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > > > > Title : NFV High-Availability Technologies Gap Analysis > > Author : Yang Wang > > Filename : draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00.txt > > Pages : 19 > > Date : 2013-12-30 > > > > Abstract: > > High-Availability (HA) is a very important requirement throughout the > > history of carrier network, many technologies have emerged for it. > > With the trend of Network Function Virtualization (NFV), network > > function are migrated from dedicated hardware to software running > > over COTS servers, the same SLA of HA should be provided depending on > > network service itself. But some new challenges are brought by NFV, > > one example is Virtualized Network Function (VNF) cluster caused by > > the HA and performance limitation of individual VNF instance. For > > the VNF cluster, some gaps exist between with the available HA > > technologies on issues of multi-homing, state synchronization, share- > > risk prevention and HA role election, especially in the network which > > has a large scale deployment of NFV. > > > > This document firstly identifies the challenges emerged within NFV > > deployed networks. Then, available HA technologies are reviewed and > > the detailed gap analysis between them with the new challenges is > > discussed in depth. At last, the summary of these gaps is presented. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis/ > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-nfv-high-availability-gap-analysis-00 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > _______________________________________________ > nsc mailing list > nsc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsc