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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Attila_B=E1der_=28IJ/ETH=29?=
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To: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>,
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Subject: [NSIS] NTLP, fairness
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Hi Henning and Robert,

I have a question regarding the datagram and connection op. modes in NTLP. Can/should NTLP provide some fairness between traffic transported in datagram and connection modes? Earlier we discussed that if messages transported by TCP and UDP use the same resources, UDP traffic suffers from the slow start of TCP. It can be an issue if there are large signaling messages or more signaling messages are multiplexed in an STCP message. What we would like to transport are short NSLP messages with low delay.  

Best regards, Attila

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Subject: [NSIS] Re: NTLP, fairness
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Nothing prevents NTLP nodes from implementing meta-signaling, using=20
DiffServ marking or setting up resources for specific protocols or=20
ports. I don't think that this requires explicit protocol support. (I=20
suspect that the condition you refer to will be rather rare, only=20
occurring in severely bandwidth-challenged environments. If your network=20
has difficulty delivering the signaling, there's probably not much room=20
left for doing real work.)

Attila B=E1der (IJ/ETH) wrote:

> Hi Henning and Robert,
>=20
> I have a question regarding the datagram and connection op. modes in
> NTLP. Can/should NTLP provide some fairness between traffic
> transported in datagram and connection modes? Earlier we discussed
> that if messages transported by TCP and UDP use the same resources,
> UDP traffic suffers from the slow start of TCP. It can be an issue if
> there are large signaling messages or more signaling messages are
> multiplexed in an STCP message. What we would like to transport are
> short NSLP messages with low delay.
>=20
> Best regards, Attila

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From exim@www1.ietf.org  Mon Dec  1 10:52:17 2003
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	 <attila.bader@ericsson.com>
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Hi Henning,

Thank you for your reply. OK, I hope such implementations are feasible =
without explicit support of NTLP.

Best regards,  Attila


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu]
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 3:13 PM
> To: Attila B=E1der (IJ/ETH)
> Cc: Hancock, Robert; nsis@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: NTLP, fairness
>=20
>=20
> Nothing prevents NTLP nodes from implementing meta-signaling, using=20
> DiffServ marking or setting up resources for specific protocols or=20
> ports. I don't think that this requires explicit protocol support. (I =

> suspect that the condition you refer to will be rather rare, only=20
> occurring in severely bandwidth-challenged environments. If=20
> your network=20
> has difficulty delivering the signaling, there's probably not=20
> much room=20
> left for doing real work.)
>=20
> Attila B=E1der (IJ/ETH) wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Henning and Robert,
> >=20
> > I have a question regarding the datagram and connection op. modes =
in
> > NTLP. Can/should NTLP provide some fairness between traffic
> > transported in datagram and connection modes? Earlier we discussed
> > that if messages transported by TCP and UDP use the same resources,
> > UDP traffic suffers from the slow start of TCP. It can be=20
> an issue if
> > there are large signaling messages or more signaling messages are
> > multiplexed in an STCP message. What we would like to transport are
> > short NSLP messages with low delay.
> >=20
> > Best regards, Attila
>=20

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From exim@www1.ietf.org  Tue Dec  2 14:16:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [NSIS] Any Router Alert Option influence on router performance?
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:19:08 +0100
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hi Ruediger,

There is a papier : " The Need for an Alternative to IPv4-Options ".Some
evaluations of RAO for IPv4 have been done.
(www.sm.luth.se/~pierre/main.pdf).

Nary Tra
Paris, ENST


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From: "Elena Scialpi" <scel@inwind.it>
To: "nsis" <nsis@ietf.org>
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Subject: [NSIS] Pre-establishment and Fast re-establishment.
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Hi all,


I haven't understood  the differences between  Pre-establish=
ment and Fast re-
establishment in the following draft:
http://www.ietf=
.org/internet-drafts/draft-lee-nsis-mobility-nslp-01.txt.

Could you gi=
ve me an explanation in few words ?=A0

Hoping in your answers.
Best r=
egards
Elena 



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Hi all,

If anyone has any comments about this, please submit them to the
IESG.

thanks,
John

> From: The IESG [mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 9:14 AM
> To: IETF-Announce=20
> Subject: Last Call: Procedures for Modifying RSVP to a BCP=20
>=20
>=20
> ---------------
> The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to =
consider=20
> Procedures for Modifying RSVP <draft-kompella-rsvp-change-01.txt> as a =
BCP.=20
> This has been reviewed in the IETF and particular interest  was =
expressed by
> the Transport Working Group (tsvwg), but it was not developed as the =
product
> of an IETF Working Group.=20
>=20
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action.  Please send any comments to the
> iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2003-12-29.
>                                                              =20
>              =20
>         =20
> File(s) can be obtained via
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kompella-rsvp-change-01.txt


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hi all, 

here are the meeting minutes. please let me know if you would like to see
some changes. 

http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/IETF58/

as usual you will also find pointers to the presentation slides and some
pictures.

ciao
hannes

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From: Jukka MJ Manner <jmanner@cs.Helsinki.FI>
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Hi Hannes, John,

I don't quite get what the first line of the Agenda Bashing says?

"Jukka's presentation on the Analysis document will be skipped. His draft 
will be resubmitted to the IESG (based on the incorporated comments)."

Mainly "resubmitted to the IESG"? Has there been a WG LC already? Weren't
you, John, supposed to initiate that during/after the Minneapolis meeting?

Regards,
Jukka

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Tschofenig Hannes wrote:

> hi all, 
> 
> here are the meeting minutes. please let me know if you would like to see
> some changes. 
> 
> http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/IETF58/
> 
> as usual you will also find pointers to the presentation slides and some
> pictures.
> 
> ciao
> hannes
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nsis mailing list
> nsis@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
> 



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Subject: RE: [NSIS] nsis meeting minutes
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I think that the minutes should be updated to say that the draft will
be resubmitted then WG LC will be started.

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsis-admin@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of ext
> Jukka MJ Manner
> Sent: 04 December, 2003 15:26
> To: Tschofenig Hannes
> Cc: nsis@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [NSIS] nsis meeting minutes
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi Hannes, John,
>=20
> I don't quite get what the first line of the Agenda Bashing says?
>=20
> "Jukka's presentation on the Analysis document will be=20
> skipped. His draft=20
> will be resubmitted to the IESG (based on the incorporated comments)."
>=20
> Mainly "resubmitted to the IESG"? Has there been a WG LC=20
> already? Weren't
> you, John, supposed to initiate that during/after the=20
> Minneapolis meeting?
>=20
> Regards,
> Jukka
>=20
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Tschofenig Hannes wrote:
>=20
> > hi all,=20
> >=20
> > here are the meeting minutes. please let me know if you=20
> would like to see
> > some changes.=20
> >=20
> > http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/IETF58/
> >=20
> > as usual you will also find pointers to the presentation=20
> slides and some
> > pictures.
> >=20
> > ciao
> > hannes
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > nsis mailing list
> > nsis@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
> >=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> nsis mailing list
> nsis@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
>=20

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hi john, 
hi jukka, 

excellent - someone actually reads the meeting minutes. i fixed the problem.


ciao
hannes


> -----Original Message-----
> From: john.loughney@nokia.com [mailto:john.loughney@nokia.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:32 PM
> To: jmanner@cs.Helsinki.FI; Tschofenig Hannes
> Cc: nsis@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [NSIS] nsis meeting minutes
> 
> 
> I think that the minutes should be updated to say that the draft will
> be resubmitted then WG LC will be started.
> 
> John
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsis-admin@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-admin@ietf.org]On 
> Behalf Of ext
> > Jukka MJ Manner
> > Sent: 04 December, 2003 15:26
> > To: Tschofenig Hannes
> > Cc: nsis@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [NSIS] nsis meeting minutes
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Hannes, John,
> > 
> > I don't quite get what the first line of the Agenda Bashing says?
> > 
> > "Jukka's presentation on the Analysis document will be 
> > skipped. His draft 
> > will be resubmitted to the IESG (based on the incorporated 
> comments)."
> > 
> > Mainly "resubmitted to the IESG"? Has there been a WG LC 
> > already? Weren't
> > you, John, supposed to initiate that during/after the 
> > Minneapolis meeting?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Jukka
> > 
> > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Tschofenig Hannes wrote:
> > 
> > > hi all, 
> > > 
> > > here are the meeting minutes. please let me know if you 
> > would like to see
> > > some changes. 
> > > 
> > > http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/IETF58/
> > > 
> > > as usual you will also find pointers to the presentation 
> > slides and some
> > > pictures.
> > > 
> > > ciao
> > > hannes
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nsis mailing list
> > > nsis@ietf.org
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nsis mailing list
> > nsis@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
> > 
> 

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Hi Hannes,

thanks for taking the minutes and putting them on the web.

If have a question about the "NAT/Firewall NSIS signalling layer 
protocol" section.
There is the comment from Dave about "stacking port bindings" and I 
don't see what the intention of this comment is. Do you recall the 
exact background?

Thanks in advance,
  Martin

Am Donnerstag, 04.12.03, um 12:58 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb 
Tschofenig Hannes:

> hi all,
>
> here are the meeting minutes. please let me know if you would like to 
> see
> some changes.
>
> http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/IETF58/
>
> as usual you will also find pointers to the presentation slides and 
> some
> pictures.
>
> ciao
> hannes
>
> _______________________________________________
> nsis mailing list
> nsis@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis


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Hi,all

As we know the NSIS signaling can be path-coupled or path-decoupled. When the NSIS signaling is off-path, the NFs have to communicate with routers. Is it necessary to define a protocol to support this interface?

Hoping in your answers.
Best Regards
Steve Chen

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<DIV><FONT face=&#23435;&#20307; size=2>Hi,all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=&#23435;&#20307; size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=&#23435;&#20307; size=2>As we know the NSIS signaling can be 
path-coupled&nbsp;or path-decoupled. When the NSIS signaling is off-path, the 
NFs have to communicate with routers. Is it necessary to define a protocol to 
support this interface?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=&#23435;&#20307; size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=&#23435;&#20307; size=2>Hoping in your answers.</FONT></DIV>
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Hi Steve,
=20
Right now, NSIS is working on path-coupled signaling. This is what the =
working group is chartered to work on.  Off-path signaling is for future =
work,and would require a new charter.
=20
John

-----Original Message-----
From: nsis-admin@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of ext =
steve chen
Sent: 05 December, 2003 09:05
To: nsis@ietf.org
Subject: [NSIS] About path-decoupled signaling


Hi,all
=20
As we know the NSIS signaling can be path-coupled or path-decoupled. =
When the NSIS signaling is off-path, the NFs have to communicate with =
routers. Is it necessary to define a protocol to support this interface?
=20
Hoping in your answers.
Best Regards
Steve Chen


------_=_NextPart_001_01C3BAFE.E09A4626
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D336400907-05122003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Hi=20
Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D336400907-05122003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D336400907-05122003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Right=20
now, NSIS is working on path-coupled signaling.&nbsp;This is what the =
working=20
group is chartered to work on.&nbsp; Off-path signaling is for future =
work,and=20
would require a new charter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D336400907-05122003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D336400907-05122003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>John</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
nsis-admin@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:nsis-admin@ietf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>ext steve =
chen<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  05 December, 2003 09:05<BR><B>To:</B> nsis@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[NSIS]=20
  About path-decoupled signaling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2>Hi,all</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2>As we know the NSIS =
signaling can be=20
  path-coupled&nbsp;or path-decoupled. When the NSIS signaling is =
off-path, the=20
  NFs have to communicate with routers. Is it necessary to define a =
protocol to=20
  support this interface?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2>Hoping in your =
answers.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2>Best Regards</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D&#23435;&#20307; size=3D2>Steve =
Chen</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "McDonald, Andrew" <andrew.mcdonald@roke.co.uk>
To: "'Martin Stiemerling'" <Martin.Stiemerling@ccrle.nec.de>,
        Tschofenig Hannes <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
Cc: nsis@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [NSIS] nsis meeting minutes
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:47:53 -0000 
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Martin Stiemerling wrote:
> Hi Hannes,
> 
> thanks for taking the minutes and putting them on the web.
> 
> If have a question about the "NAT/Firewall NSIS signalling layer
> protocol" section.
> There is the comment from Dave about "stacking port bindings" and I
> don't see what the intention of this comment is. Do you recall the
> exact background?

I think the question was, essentially, whether a NAT ought to modify the
flow identifier in the NSIS messages, or whether it should add a new one
(which becomes the current one), so creating a stack of flow identifiers
from along the path. This might aid diagnostics, loop detection, etc, since
you can see what the flow identifier was at each stage along the path.
However, some people would argue against it on the grounds that they want to
do topology hiding.


Andrew


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Thread-Topic: WG Last Call on "Analysis of Existing Quality of Service Signaling Protocols"
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Hello all,

I would like to start a 2 week WG last call on the analysis document.  =
The current version can be found here:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-signalling-analysis-0=
3.txt

The WGLC will run from December 11th to December 24th.  I'll leave it up =
to the draft editor to co-ordinate issue tracking, etc.

thanks,
John

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Subject: [NSIS] About the MULTICAST NSLP on NSIS framework and mobility support of layered RSVP
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Hi, everyone,

I'm Yuming Wang from HUST, two questions are around me, and I need your help.

First, on the NSIS layered signaling framework, what do you think about
the necessity of implementing a MULTICAST-NSLP? because the
QoS-NSLP is simplified by the elimination of support for multicast
flows.
If necessary, how do you consider this MULTICAST-NSLP?
If not, then how to make reservations for a multicast tree? 

The second question, how do you think about the mobility support of
layered RSVP?

Thanks!
Regards,
Yuming
My personal website: http://itec.hust.edu.cn/wym.htm
2003-12-12




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hi Yuming,


> First, on the NSIS layered signaling framework, what do you think about
> the necessity of implementing a MULTICAST-NSLP? because the
> QoS-NSLP is simplified by the elimination of support for multicast
> flows.
> If necessary, how do you consider this MULTICAST-NSLP?
> If not, then how to make reservations for a multicast tree?

Do you mean Multicast_NSLP for QoS ? In the NSIS requirements, NSIS is not
interested in multicast now because of its complexity.

Nary Tra,
ENST, Paris


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From exim@www1.ietf.org  Fri Dec 12 22:19:33 2003
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To: "nsis@ietf.org" <nsis@ietf.org>
CC: Thanh Tra LUU <luu@enst.fr>
Subject: Re: Re: [NSIS] About the MULTICAST NSLP on NSIS framework and mobility support of layered RSVP
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Hi Nary Tra,
Thanks! Some comments inline.
Yuming
2003-12-13
----------------------------------------------
NGIT Research Group, ITEC R&D Center, EI Dpt.,
HuaZhong University of Science and Technology.
Email:     acer_wym@sina.com
Home Page: http://itec.hust.edu.cn/wym.htm
TEL: +86-27-87453207  FAX: +86-27-87456436

============== Original Message ==============
>From: Thanh Tra LUU<luu@enst.fr>
>To:   acer_wym<acer_wym@sina.com>
>Sent: 2003-12-12 11:38:00
>Subject: Re: [NSIS] About the MULTICAST NSLP on NSIS framework and mobility support of layered RSVP
>
>hi Yuming,
>
>
>> First, on the NSIS layered signaling framework, what do you think about
>> the necessity of implementing a MULTICAST-NSLP? because the
>> QoS-NSLP is simplified by the elimination of support for multicast
>> flows.
>> If necessary, how do you consider this MULTICAST-NSLP?
>> If not, then how to make reservations for a multicast tree?
>
>Do you mean Multicast_NSLP for QoS ? In the NSIS requirements, NSIS is not
>interested in multicast now because of its complexity.
>

[WYM] Here, MULTICAST-NSLP means a generic multicast at the same layer
with QoS-NSLP, not only for QoS. Multicast support will not be the
current stage work of NSIS WG, so, this will be a problem in the 
future. I'm wondering now what is the proper time to consider the
multicast issue in the NSIS framework? and are there any rude thoughts
about this?

>Nary Tra,
>ENST, Paris
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nsis mailing list
>nsis@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
>
>
>.




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Subject: Re: Re: [NSIS] About the MULTICAST NSLP on NSIS framework and mobility support of layered RSVP
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hi Yuming,

If I understand your idea, Multicase_NSLP looks like a module which can be
integrated in other NSLP applications ? There was not any multicast
discussion so I do not know if multicast at NSLP level is a good idea. :-)

In fact, the Multicast is an open issue but it is not the current work in
NSIS.

> [WYM] Here, MULTICAST-NSLP means a generic multicast at the same layer
> with QoS-NSLP, not only for QoS. Multicast support will not be the
> current stage work of NSIS WG, so, this will be a problem in the
> future. I'm wondering now what is the proper time to consider the
> multicast issue in the NSIS framework? and are there any rude thoughts
> about this?

Nary Tra,
ENST, Paris


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From: "Thanh Tra LUU" <luu@enst.fr>
To: "Tschofenig Hannes" <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
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hi Tschofenig,

I've read your draft on RSVP DOI. I just want to know the reason why you've
written RSVP DOI other than a new Protocol ID in IPSec DOI. Does it seem
that IPSec WG does not want a new Protocol ID as someone has proposed a new
Protocol ID for TLS ?

Sorry if I missed some mails.

Nary Tra,
ENST, Paris


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From: "Hannes Tschofenig" <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
To: "Thanh Tra LUU" <luu@enst.fr>
Cc: <nsis@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:01:26 +0100
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hi nary,

thanks for reading the draft.

the idea behind the rsvp doi was the following :

- leave rsvp as it is
- add key management to it (since the integrity object does not provide i=
t)
- reuse existing authentication and key exchange mechanisms

hence i only reused ike without touch ipsec. richard graveman made me awa=
re
of work in the atm forum which did something similar (with a different
intention).

you might want to take a look at a few slides:
http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/RSVP_DoI.ppt

how would your protocol id procedure work for tls?

ciao
hannes

> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Thanh Tra LUU [mailto:luu@enst.fr]
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2003 16:27
> An: Tschofenig Hannes
> Cc: nsis@ietf.org
> Betreff: Draft RSVP DOI
>
>
> hi Tschofenig,
>
> I've read your draft on RSVP DOI. I just want to know the reason why
> you've
> written RSVP DOI other than a new Protocol ID in IPSec DOI. Does it see=
m
> that IPSec WG does not want a new Protocol ID as someone has proposed a
> new
> Protocol ID for TLS ?


>
> Sorry if I missed some mails.
>
> Nary Tra,
> ENST, Paris
>


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Subject: Re: [NSIS] Draft RSVP DOI
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:41:54 +0100
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hi Tschofenig,

>the idea behind the rsvp doi was the following :

>- leave rsvp as it is
>- add key management to it (since the integrity object does not provide it)
>- reuse existing authentication and key exchange mechanisms

I agree that we should use some protocols to establish SAs for RSVP.
However, I don't see the reason why you don't touch ipsec doi (not ipsec).

>hence i only reused ike without touch ipsec. richard graveman made me aware
>of work in the atm forum which did something similar (with a different
>intention).

>you might want to take a look at a few slides:
>http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/RSVP_DoI.ppt

>how would your protocol id procedure work for tls?

I dont understand your question. However, you can see the paper at Globecom
03 (in the Security Symposium) on TLS ( they have propsed Protocol ID=5 for
TLS).

Nary Tra,
ENST, Paris


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From: "Hannes Tschofenig" <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
To: "Thanh Tra LUU" <luu@enst.fr>
Cc: <nsis@ietf.org>
Subject: AW: [NSIS] Draft RSVP DOI
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:10:35 +0100
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hi nary tra,

> hi Tschofenig,
>
> >the idea behind the rsvp doi was the following :
>
> >- leave rsvp as it is
> >- add key management to it (since the integrity object does not provid=
e
> it)
> >- reuse existing authentication and key exchange mechanisms
>
> I agree that we should use some protocols to establish SAs for RSVP.
> However, I don't see the reason why you don't touch ipsec doi (not
> ipsec).

there are two ways which you can go:

a) use ipsec as it is
in the 'rsvp security properties' we indicate that this is not as simple =
as
it sounds (due to the protocol machinery of rsvp).

b) use application layer security (i.e., the rsvp integrity object)

the ipsec doi does not create rsvp sas for us. hence i had to use another
doi for establishing exactly the parameters and attributes i want.

i must admit that i haven't finished it since rsvp also supports multicas=
t
but currently the rsvp doi draft is silent about it (since nobody is real=
ly
interested in multicast handling).

in this case i would, for example, switch from sequence numbers to
timestamps for authentication.

a small note:
with the design followed by gimps the approach of creating your own doi i=
s
obsolete since you can use standard ipsec.

>
> >hence i only reused ike without touch ipsec. richard graveman made me
> aware
> >of work in the atm forum which did something similar (with a different
> >intention).
>
> >you might want to take a look at a few slides:
> >http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/RSVP_DoI.ppt
>
> >how would your protocol id procedure work for tls?
>
> I dont understand your question. However, you can see the paper at
> Globecom
> 03 (in the Security Symposium) on TLS ( they have propsed Protocol ID=3D=
5
> for
> TLS).
i guess you mean "ISAKMP Handshake for SSL/TLS
Ibrahim Hajjeh, Ahmed Serhrouchni, Ecole Nationale Sup=E9rieure des
T=E9l=E9communications, France, Fr=E9d=E9rique Tastet, Thales Communicati=
ons,
France"
http://www.globecom2003.com/COMM%20Security.html

i could find an electronic version of the paper. hence it is difficult fo=
r
me to determine whether the approach would work.

i try to order the proceedings.

ciao
hannes

btw, what's actually your first name?
>
> Nary Tra,
> ENST, Paris
>


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From: "Thanh Tra LUU" <luu@enst.fr>
To: "Hannes Tschofenig" <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
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References: <LPEDKGNINIHGOJJCJAMJAEJLCAAA.hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
Subject: Re: [NSIS] Draft RSVP DOI
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hi hannes,

>there are two ways which you can go:

>a) use ipsec as it is
>in the 'rsvp security properties' we indicate that this is not as simple=
 as
>it sounds (due to the protocol machinery of rsvp).

>b) use application layer security (i.e., the rsvp integrity object)

>the ipsec doi does not create rsvp sas for us. hence i had to use anothe=
r
>doi for establishing exactly the parameters and attributes i want.

In ISAKMP framework (2408), any security protocol can have a protocol id
(ospf, tls..), so ipsec doi can be used for all. Moreover,  you can choos=
e
your appropriate security parameters, share the same database (ipsec doi)
and switch security protocols (e.g. esp->ah, rsvp->esp)

>i must admit that i haven't finished it since rsvp also supports multica=
st
>but currently the rsvp doi draft is silent about it (since nobody is rea=
lly
>interested in multicast handling).

>in this case i would, for example, switch from sequence numbers to
>timestamps for authentication.

i see.  ;-)

>a small note:
>with the design followed by gimps the approach of creating your own doi =
is
>obsolete since you can use standard ipsec.

Do you mean gimps want to change isakmp to establish SAs before knowing t=
he
address to which the SAs will be established ? BTW, you have proposed to =
use
ISAKMP, haven't you ? I do not propose any doi, i just want to know why y=
ou
don't propose a new protocol id in ipsec doi for rsvp.

>i guess you mean "ISAKMP Handshake for SSL/TLS
>Ibrahim Hajjeh, Ahmed Serhrouchni, Ecole Nationale Sup=E9rieure des
>T=E9l=E9communications, France, Fr=E9d=E9rique Tastet, Thales Communicat=
ions,
>France"
>http://www.globecom2003.com/COMM%20Security.html

yes, i mean it.

>i could find an electronic version of the paper. hence it is difficult f=
or
>me to determine whether the approach would work.

That is also my question. The problem, i think, is ipsec doi is not an op=
en
issue for windows.

Nary Tra,
ENST, Paris.

ps : my first name is Tra, but my friends called me Nary. So i take Nary =
Tra
as my name.


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Subject: [NSIS] Call for Papers to MMB&PGTS04, 12-15 Sep. 2004, Dresden
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Call for Papers++Call for Papers++Call for Papers++Call for Papers ++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


                              MMB&PGTS04

           12-15 September 2004, Technische Universit=E4t Dresden
                            www.mmbpgts.org

                            Joint conference
    12th GI/ITG Conference on Measuring, Modelling and Evaluation of
                Computer and Comummunication Systems (MMB)
                             together with
              3rd Polish-German Teletraffic Symposium (PGTS)

The German MMB conference series started in 1981, the Polish-German PGTS =
in
2000. Both conferences are covering all aspects of performance evaluation
of communication and data processing systems and networks. The combinatio=
n
of both conferences brings together the active Polish and German
teletraffic and data traffic communities.


CONFERENCE TOPICS

Teletraffic Models and Traffic Theory
- Traffic characterization
- User behaviour
- Traffic measurements
- Parameterization

Traffic Control and QoS
- Internet traffic engineering
- Reservation and priority mechanisms

Network and System Architectures
- High-speed switching fabrics
- Photonic switching

Mobile Networks
- Mobile broadband networks
- Ad hoc networks
- Mobility management

Network Design and Planning
- Network topologies
- Network optimization
- Access and backbone networks
- Satellite networks

Traffic and Network Management
- Service engineering
- Network security
- Network reliability
- Recovery and restoration
- Accounting and tariffing

Protocol Performance
- Wireless networks
- Multicast
- Routing
- Interworking

Computer Systems and Networks
- Real-time systems
- Multiprocessor systems
- Embedded systems
- Logistic systems and workflows

Performance Evaluation Methods
- Queueing theory
- Queueing networks
- Analytical and numerical analysis
- Approximations and bound computation
- Stochastic Petri nets
- Stochastic process algebras
- Simulation techniques: rare event simulation,
  distributed simulation, hybrid simulation
- Performance tools

Quantitative Measures
- Performability
- Dependability

Performance Measurements
- Hard- and software monitors
- Hybrid monitors
- Statistical data evaluation (time series analysis)
- Benchmarking
- Application examples


IMPORTANT DATES
A) Full Papers (approx. 5000 characters or 15 pages typewriter, double
spaced, PDF) should be submitted to the conference server by
www.mmbpgts.org before 4 March 2004. The server will be
open from 5 Jan 2004.
Accepted papers will be given 30 minutes for presentation and discussion.
B) We also solicit to submit Short Papers describing actual ongoing work,
tools (approx. 1500 characters or 5 typewriter, double spaced pages, PDF)
also before 4 March 2004.
Accepted papers will be given 15 minutes for presentation and discussion.

Acceptance notification: 1 June 2004
Camera ready papers due: 1 July 2004

TUTORIALS
Two tutorials are planned in the afternoon on 12 Sep 2003. Proposals for
tutorials should be sent to Peter Buchholz=20
(email: peter.buchholz@postamt.cs.uni-dortmund.de)

TOOLS EXHIBITION
Desks and poster stands will be provided for the presentation of software
tools. Requests to present a tool should be submitted before 1 July 2004.
Due to space limitations, places will be allocated on a FCFS basis.

LANGUAGE
The official language of conference is English.

VENUE
Dresden is the capital of Saxony and the new European center of
Microelectronics with big fabs of Infineon, AMD and others. The baroque
city of Dresden is famous for its beautiful buildings such as the Zwinger=
,
the Semper opera house and the nearly completed reconstruction of the
Frauenkirche. The conference dinner is planned to held on a steamboat riv=
er
Elbe cruise to Pillnitz castle. The "Technische Universit=E4t Dresden" is=
 one
of the biggest universities of technology in Germany with more than 30.00=
0
students.


COMMITTEE

Conference Chairs
Paul J. K=FChn, University of Stuttgart
Jozef Wozniak, Gdansk University of Technology

Technical Programme Committee
Peter Buchholz, University of Dortmund
Ralf Lehnert, Technische Universit=E4t Dresden
Michal Pioro, Warsaw University of Technology

Wojciech Burakowski, Warsaw University of Technology
Tadeusz Chachorski, Polish Academy of Sciences, Gliwice
Joachim Charzinski, Siemens AG, Munich
Janusz Filipiak, AGH University of Sciences and Technology, Cracow
Reinhard German, University of Erlangen-N=FCrnberg
Carmelita G=F6rg, University of Bremen
Adam Grzek, Wroclaw University of Technology
Franz Hartleb, T-Systems, Darmstadt
Boudewijn Haverkort, University of Twente
Andrzej Jajsczyk, AGH University of Sciences and Technology, Cracow
Wojciech Kabacinski, Poznan University of Technology
Sylwester Kaczmarek, Gdansk University of Technology
Andrzej Kasprzak, Wroclaw University of Technology
Ullrich Killat, Harburg University of Technology
Jerzy Konorski, Gdansk University of Technology
Udo Krieger, University of Bamberg
Paul J. K=FChn, University of Stuttgart
Axel Lehmann, University of Armed Forces, M=FCnchen
Christoph Lindemann, University of Dortmund
Jozef Lubacz, Warsaw University of Technology
Andreas Mitschele-Thiel, Technische Universit=E4t Ilmenau
Bruno M=FCller-Clostermann, University of Duisburg-Essen
J=F6rg Oehlerich, Siemens AG, Munich
Andrzej Pach, AGH Univ. of Science and Technology, Cracow
Zdzislaw Papir, AGH Univ. of Science and Technology, Cracow
Martin Paterok, Bertelsmann, G=FCtersloh
Georg R=F6=DFler, Tenovis GmbH, Frankfurt
Maciej Stasiak, Poznan University of Technology
Michael Tangemann, Alcatel, Stuttgart
Matthias Wippenbeck, Marconi Communications, Backnang
Adam Wolisz, Technische Universit=E4t Berlin
Jozef Wozniak, Gdansk University of Technology

For more information please contact:

Prof.Dr.-Ing.Ralf Lehnert
Dipl.-Ing. Rong Zhao
Technische Universit=E4t Dresden
Communications Laboratory
Chair for Telecommunications
D-01062 Dresden, Germany
E-Mail: info@mmbpgts.org
        mmbpgts@ifn.et.tu-dresden.de

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From exim@www1.ietf.org  Sun Dec 28 23:01:39 2003
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From: "zahra ebadi" <Ebadi@laleh.itrc.ac.ir>
To: <nsis@ietf.org>
Cc: "zahra ebadi" <Ebadi@itrc.ac.ir>
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:25:01 +0330
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Subject: [NSIS] QoS requirement and R-factor
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Hello,
I'm zahra Ebadi from ITRC CO.=20
I need some information about QoS requirement.
Also information about QoS manager & agent in MGC & TG with using =
R-factor.
I should use RSVP and R-factor for QoS.
If you could help me with a document, I will be tankful a lot.
thanks.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3502.5390" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm zahra Ebadi from ITRC CO. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I need some information about QoS=20
requirement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also information about QoS manager =
&amp; agent in=20
MGC &amp; TG with using R-factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I should use RSVP and R-factor for=20
QoS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you could help me with a document, I =
will be=20
tankful a lot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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