From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 10 01:21:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B773A6847; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:21:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433FC3A6847 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:21:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.252, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVQowbQNbl0x for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 20CAB3A67F6 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:21:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jan 2009 09:21:06 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO 4FIL42860) [91.154.105.43] by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 10 Jan 2009 10:21:06 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18PRoN9yYMPQp65szqIrSAEki4QdAq3+xWFOERxfo VfHGIDH982KwPr From: "Hannes Tschofenig" To: Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:21:36 +0200 Message-ID: <00f501c97304$d76677d0$0201a8c0@nsnintra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AclzBNX+2Z7NhFOwTj6fqhuWmFmfUw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.64 Cc: "'Korhonen, Jouni \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'Mark Jones' , "'ext Mayutan A.'" , "'Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)'" Subject: [NSIS] Mapping of QSPEC Parameters to specific Implementations X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, the NSIS QSPEC document http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-qspec-21.txt contains a number of parameters. I was wondering what experience you have regarding the mapping of these parameters to concrete implementations (e.g., Linux TC). Is documentation available somewhere? Any surprises and interesting insights? Did you encounter problems? The reason for my question is related to the discussions with had in DIME regarding the ability to implement certain parameters in today's devices. At IETF#73 we got some feedback during face-to-face discussions and we adjusted our documents accordingly. More feedback from implementers in this group would be valuable to us. Thanks in advance! Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 11 01:50:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 132713A6883; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:50:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442C43A6883 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:50:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.123 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.123 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.828, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=2.077] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mjsafTcmsF3C for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E97273A6837 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jan 2009 09:49:58 -0000 Received: from a91-154-108-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO 4FIL42860) [91.154.108.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp016) with SMTP; 11 Jan 2009 10:49:58 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18I/X0e3dsIWYkmG3RPVw2a/KxKZOh3cqC0ncm3zu pajarbkbflUbbX From: "Hannes Tschofenig" To: Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:50:28 +0200 Message-ID: <025c01c973d2$0a090720$0201a8c0@nsnintra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Aclz0gjqWuMyBMUAQbGZGJTbW74VJQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.68 Subject: [NSIS] QSPEC & TMOD X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, Section 3.3.1 Traffic Model Parameter says: " o rate (r) o bucket size (b) o peak rate (p) o minimum policed unit (m) All 4 of the sub-parameters MUST be included in the TMOD parameter. The TMOD parameter can be set to describe the traffic source. If, for example, TMOD is set to specify bandwidth only, then set r = peak rate = p, b = large, m = large. As another example if TMOD is set for TCP traffic, then set r = average rate, b = large, p = large. " In reviews we got the comment that the term "large" is a bit fuzzy. Wouldn't it be better to * replace the term "large" with a specific value * add a separate bandwidth parameter * indicating the parameter now carries a bandwidth value rather than being implicit in the encoding of the parameters Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 19 05:14:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031F928C1C6; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:14:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED5628C1C6 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:14:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.163 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7yq8DOOMZzd for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CBB328C1C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LOtwo-0006F8-Al; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:13:48 +0100 Received: from i72ms.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.70.5] helo=smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de) by irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LOtwo-0008GX-6R; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:13:46 +0100 Received: from vorta.tm.uka.de (vorta.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de [IPv6:2001:638:204:6:21b:fcff:fe96:fe02]) by smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6A82FC037; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:13:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vorta.tm.uka.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04BDA10173; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:13:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49747C89.4030804@tm.uka.de> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:13:45 +0100 From: Roland Bless Organization: Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <025c01c973d2$0a090720$0201a8c0@nsnintra.net> In-Reply-To: <025c01c973d2$0a090720$0201a8c0@nsnintra.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: Kaspersky (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] QSPEC & TMOD X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hannes, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Section 3.3.1 Traffic Model Parameter says: = > = > " > o rate (r) > o bucket size (b) > o peak rate (p) > o minimum policed unit (m) > = > All 4 of the sub-parameters MUST be included in the TMOD parameter. > The TMOD parameter can be set to describe the traffic source. If, > for example, TMOD is set to specify bandwidth only, then set r =3D peak > rate =3D p, b =3D large, m =3D large. As another example if TMOD is s= et > for TCP traffic, then set r =3D average rate, b =3D large, p =3D large. > " > = > In reviews we got the comment that the term "large" is a bit fuzzy. Would= n't > it be better to = > * replace the term "large" with a specific value Probably at least an example of what would be considered as being "large". > * add a separate bandwidth parameter > * indicating the parameter now carries a bandwidth value rather than being > implicit in the encoding of the parameters Hmm, I disagree here. The thing is that "bandwidth" alone is much too fuzzy and that's why Dave Oran insisted to use T-MOD at some IETF meeting in San Diego. If you think about bandwidth of "100Mbit/s", that could be either 100Mbit sent in 0.1s and then being idle for 0.9s or very smoothly 1250 bytes every 100=B5s. A Token Bucket is well-defined and unambiguous about the shape of your traffic. I remember times when only every second ATM cell got through, because the ingress policer dropped them due to "high" burstiness generated by the sending PC ATM interface. It should be clear which traffic will pass your policers and also for admission control you want to know how bursty it is. For instance, I usually couldn't admit very bursty traffic to enter my EF-based classes, but it may fit into AF-based classes. Regards, Roland _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 23 05:52:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941C43A686C; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:52:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4313A686C for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:52:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.206 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.206 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClPUwSCFGax5 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154C73A67F2 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LQMRx-0001F5-M1; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:51:59 +0100 Received: from i72ms.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.70.5] helo=smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de) by irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LQMRx-0001V1-Gw; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:51:57 +0100 Received: from vorta.tm.uka.de (vorta.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de [IPv6:2001:638:204:6:21b:fcff:fe96:fe02]) by smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688452FC037; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:51:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vorta.tm.uka.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5289410173; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:51:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:51:57 +0100 From: Roland Bless Organization: Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nsis@ietf.org" , Jukka MJ Manner , Georgios Karagiannis , Andrew McDonald X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: Kaspersky (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) Subject: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I've got two questions: 1) would it be good to let any unknown flags intact instead of resetting them? Current text says: "The set of appropriate flags depends on the particular message being processed. Any bit not defined as a flag for a particular message MUST be set to zero on sending and MUST be ignored on receiving." If I understand the text correctly, an additional flag cannot pass a QNE, or does "set to zero" apply only to the QNI? 2) We suggest that the QUERY gets an additional bit in the message flags. Sometimes it might be useful to elicit a RESERVE with the R=1 bit set (in the RESERVE, i.e., a REPLACE bit) and sometimes not. So it would be good to have a bit in a QUERY that provides information at the far end on how to the the REPLACE bit in the corresponding RESERVE. Does this make sense? Regards, -- Roland Bless -- WWW: http://www.tm.uka.de/~bless Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe, Germany _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 03:53:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8750428C1F9; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:53:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18C928C1F9 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:53:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SMfcWSBjOR4v for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E7E28C1B1 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:53:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.233.152.99] (e3n-3.netlab.hut.fi [130.233.152.99]) (AUTH: PLAIN jmanner, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:52:41 +0200 id 0008C1F8.497DA409.000075B4 Message-ID: <497DA408.4050201@cs.helsinki.fi> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:52:40 +0200 From: Jukka Manner User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roland Bless References: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> In-Reply-To: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> Cc: Andrew McDonald , Georgios Karagiannis , "nsis@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi Roland, For Q1, I think the text meant that the QNI should set to zero, but if it didn't, then a QNE probably should be resetting the bit to zero, so let it go through. For Q2, I agree, this would be kind of useful to have. The NSLP is with the AD now, so we have to wait for his review. But still, I'd like to get other people's reaction to these, as well. Cheers, Jukka Roland Bless wrote: > Hi, > > > I've got two questions: > 1) would it be good to let any unknown flags intact instead of resetting > them? Current text says: > "The set of appropriate flags depends on the particular message being > processed. Any bit not defined as a flag for a particular message > MUST be set to zero on sending and MUST be ignored on receiving." > If I understand the text correctly, an additional flag cannot pass a > QNE, or does "set to zero" apply only to the QNI? > > 2) We suggest that the QUERY gets an additional bit in the message > flags. Sometimes it might be useful to elicit a RESERVE with the R=1 > bit set (in the RESERVE, i.e., a REPLACE bit) and sometimes not. So > it would be good to have a bit in a QUERY that provides information > at the far end on how to the the REPLACE bit in the corresponding > RESERVE. Does this make sense? > > Regards, _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 05:50:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427323A6BA3; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:50:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D0D28B56A for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:50:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.373 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.373 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wVFuwULTjkDf for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B038A3A6837 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BFF2C0008DF; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:50:03 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4OsCTZHBtZPm; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:50:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx1.office [192.168.24.3]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF5B2C00030D; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:49:37 +0100 (CET) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:49:30 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC62E@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags thread-index: Acl9YdESSXt7BXjnThi0B0h87cX21QCWs+yg References: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: "Roland Bless" , , "Jukka MJ Manner" , "Georgios Karagiannis" , "Andrew McDonald" Subject: Re: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Roland Bless > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 2:52 PM > To: nsis@ietf.org; Jukka MJ Manner; Georgios Karagiannis; Andrew > McDonald > Subject: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags > > Hi, > > > I've got two questions: > 1) would it be good to let any unknown flags intact instead of > resetting > them? Current text says: > "The set of appropriate flags depends on the particular message > being > processed. Any bit not defined as a flag for a particular message > MUST be set to zero on sending and MUST be ignored on receiving." > If I understand the text correctly, an additional flag cannot pass a > QNE, or does "set to zero" apply only to the QNI? This reads like common practice, i.e., ignore on receiving but set them right on sending. Any good reason to change this? > > 2) We suggest that the QUERY gets an additional bit in the message > flags. Sometimes it might be useful to elicit a RESERVE with the R=1 > bit set (in the RESERVE, i.e., a REPLACE bit) and sometimes not. So > it would be good to have a bit in a QUERY that provides information > at the far end on how to the the REPLACE bit in the corresponding > RESERVE. Does this make sense? I'm not sure whether this is required but in any case this would mean a hard change to the specification and not just an editing of it. I don't see this as a bug but it is optional, i.e, no change required. Martin > > Regards, > -- > Roland Bless -- WWW: http://www.tm.uka.de/~bless > Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe, Germany > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 05:56:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8043A6A6A; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:56:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B03E3A6A6A for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:56:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.209, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qj1Kn-KUXF2T for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65683A6837 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0462C017B31 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:56:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ODA4ojk1k2lp for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:56:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx1.office [192.168.24.3]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05992C00030D for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:56:16 +0100 (CET) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:56:13 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC636@VENUS.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Status of the WG (January 2009) thread-index: Acl/vdm2JxfxGTYFSseUq45QsS1ctA== From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: Subject: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Just some general information where we are right now with our milestones. We have submitted these drafts to our AD/IESG: - GIST - QoS NSLP - NATFW NSLP - Y.1541 - QSPEC These milestones are still open Sep 2008 Submit 'Applicability Statement of NSIS Protocols in Mobile Environments' to the IESG as an Informational RFC Sep 2008 Submit 'RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC Nov 2008 Submit 'GIST State Machine' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC Nov 2008 Submit 'NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC Dec 2008 Submit 'NSIS Extensibility Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC and the GIST over SCTP draft. We need to finish those documents better sooner than later! Martin stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 06:00:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35AF03A6BAB; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:00:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5078B3A6A6A for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:00:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.405 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.405 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.194, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0eu2Xf6MnWZ5 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78FA43A6837 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09C62C01C8EC for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:59:53 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0HpchzCe2K2L for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:59:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx1.office [192.168.24.3]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F292C017B31 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:59:48 +0100 (CET) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:59:45 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt thread-index: Acl/vlfQIV/INELNQD27Cu7FYOvEcg== From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: Subject: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, We start the WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt General Internet Signaling Transport (GIST) over SCTP. The WGLC will run for three weeks to get time for all WG members to do a review of the draft. The draft is here: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt The WGLC will end Feb 16th 10am CET. Martin stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 06:04:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1CD3A6BAC; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:04:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604893A6BAC for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:04:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FoDgIyMh5cik for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EA63A6A6A for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LRS4G-000283-Td; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:04:03 +0100 Received: from i72mn03.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.33]) by irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtpsa id 1LRS4G-0007n1-OQ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:04:00 +0100 Message-ID: <497DC2D0.3030500@tm.uka.de> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:04:00 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_R=F6hricht?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Stiemerling References: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC62E@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC62E@VENUS.office> X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: Kaspersky (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) Cc: Andrew McDonald , Georgios Karagiannis , Roland Bless , Jukka MJ Manner , nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org On 01/26/2009 02:49 PM Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> 1) would it be good to let any unknown flags intact instead of >> resetting them? Current text says: "The set of appropriate flags >> depends on the particular message being processed. Any bit not >> defined as a flag for a particular message MUST be set to zero on >> sending and MUST be ignored on receiving." If I understand the text >> correctly, an additional flag cannot pass a QNE, or does "set to >> zero" apply only to the QNI? > = > This reads like common practice, i.e., ignore on receiving but set = > them right on sending. Any good reason to change this? I must admit that I was confused by this section, too. From my point of = view it wouldn't hurt to add a few words clarifying this case, at least = to prevent us from running into a RAO-like confusion. For example something like this: =BBAny bit not defined as a flag for a particular message MUST be set to = zero on sending, MUST be ignored on receiving, and MUST be forwarded = unchanged.=AB Bye, Martin _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 06:05:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F4F3A6BB5; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:05:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDD43A6BAC for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:05:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GiFVGbzzqpaL for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41DA3A6BAB for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487A22C017B31 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:05:00 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H76a0OQkFezZ for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:05:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx1.office [192.168.24.3]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB812C00030D for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:04:55 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 x-cr-puzzleid: {D884E45E-6575-473A-A40C-49626A45ED27} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: BBHH BTNl CDT+ Cs0N C4Sr C7xW DOJI EfzQ FRSX F19E GLBH HHl5 H3d4 JYk5 JthU K7na; 1; bgBzAGkAcwBAAGkAZQB0AGYALgBvAHIAZwA=; Sosha1_v1; 7; {D884E45E-6575-473A-A40C-49626A45ED27}; cwB0AGkAZQBtAGUAcgBsAGkAbgBnAEAAbgB3AC4AbgBlAGMAbABhAGIALgBlAHUA; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:04:51 GMT; RwBlAHQAdABpAG4AZwAgAHMAdABhAHIAdABlAGQAIABvAG4AIABOAFMASQBTACAAZQB4AHQAZQBuAHMAaQBiAGkAbAB0AHkAIABkAHIAYQBmAHQA Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:04:51 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft thread-index: Acl/vw5NWijLz2LuQ4SQhwmuytNRTQ== From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, We have a draft to be completed urgently :) Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family draft-nsis-ext-02.txt http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis-ext-02.txt. Please review it and send your comments. Martin stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 06:08:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6CB28C22C; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:08:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B677428C211 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:08:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id szWERqUpR0WU for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF5CB28C204 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D5F2C017B31; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:08:04 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gTK7tduNi+mx; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:08:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx1.office [192.168.24.3]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3282C00030D; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:07:34 +0100 (CET) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:07:33 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC642@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <497DC2D0.3030500@tm.uka.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags thread-index: Acl/vvYCmSB+NbJrRSadtPQJEly2pgAAFjug References: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC62E@VENUS.office> <497DC2D0.3030500@tm.uka.de> From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_R=F6hricht?= Cc: Andrew McDonald , Georgios Karagiannis , Roland Bless , Jukka MJ Manner , nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org > = > On 01/26/2009 02:49 PM Martin Stiemerling wrote: > >> 1) would it be good to let any unknown flags intact instead of > >> resetting them? Current text says: "The set of appropriate flags > >> depends on the particular message being processed. Any bit not > >> defined as a flag for a particular message MUST be set to zero on > >> sending and MUST be ignored on receiving." If I understand the text > >> correctly, an additional flag cannot pass a QNE, or does "set to > >> zero" apply only to the QNI? > > > > This reads like common practice, i.e., ignore on receiving but set > > them right on sending. Any good reason to change this? > = > I must admit that I was confused by this section, too. From my point of > view it wouldn't hurt to add a few words clarifying this case, at least > to prevent us from running into a RAO-like confusion. > For example something like this: > =BBAny bit not defined as a flag for a particular message MUST be set to > zero on sending, MUST be ignored on receiving, and MUST be forwarded > unchanged.=AB Isn't this reading contradicting? An QoS NSLP node that forwards a message,= must anyhow first receive it. So, does this mean to change or leave the bi= t? Martin _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 06:48:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210323A6BB1; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:48:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D6E3A6BAC for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:48:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.728 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.728 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.521, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hoq0RAkw2qZ6 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D3A3A6974 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LRSkr-0008U6-Vj; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:48:07 +0100 Received: from i72ms.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.70.5] helo=smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de) by irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LRSkr-0006lH-Ak; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:48:01 +0100 Received: from vorta.tm.uka.de (vorta.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de [IPv6:2001:638:204:6:21b:fcff:fe96:fe02]) by smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374212FC037; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:48:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vorta.tm.uka.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D2910173; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:48:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <497DCD20.9090109@tm.uka.de> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:48:00 +0100 From: Roland Bless Organization: Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Stiemerling References: <4979CB7D.6080006@tm.uka.de> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC62E@VENUS.office> <497DC2D0.3030500@tm.uka.de> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC642@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC642@VENUS.office> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: Kaspersky (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) Cc: Andrew McDonald , Georgios Karagiannis , nsis@ietf.org, Jukka MJ Manner Subject: Re: [NSIS] QoS NSLP flags X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi Martin and all, Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> On 01/26/2009 02:49 PM Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> confusion. For example something like this: =BBAny bit not defined as >> a flag for a particular message MUST be set to zero on sending, >> MUST be ignored on receiving, and MUST be forwarded unchanged.=AB > = > Isn't this reading contradicting? An QoS NSLP node that forwards a > message, must anyhow first receive it. So, does this mean to change > or leave the bit? I guess that he meant to leave the bit intact, but you're correct that the third statement contradicts the first. Leaving unknown bits intact would allow for easier extensibility. For message objects we have the the A/B flag mechanism, but for message flags this won't work. The Postel principle actually would propose to ignore unknown bits on receipt and reset unknown bits to zero for outgoing messages. Leaving unknown bits intact would require to save the unknown flags for the outgoing message thus making implementations a little bit more complex. But as far as I can see resetting or leaving bits are both problematic to the same extent, depending on the bits meaning. If a new bit is used to signal some kind of node capability, then leaving bits intact would be problematic. If the new bit is used to signal a special meaning to the far end node, then leaving bits intact would be nice. So currently, if we need to introduce extra bits, we require a new NSLP protocol version, right? Regards, Roland _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 10:50:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E46C3A6996; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:50:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B3A3A69CD for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:50:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.514 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.514 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e7OD-CZEEGNC for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com (web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com [69.147.97.78]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D6E33A6996 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 43175 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jan 2009 18:50:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=F3sXdcCCMAIlgSWJFeJWsx9k82eMM6Bx+TtTHxnoZhnYJ7iVCGp7r3dZjmpeG7XoYBXGlmwUEKIXXXDK01XkL71DiWTZ+EJcGpT75Ct63nTLAZRt4INi90D5rrnaiVjKsNZb4Onw2vnwD6VaIFo8zt6pMb9BF9imDeTaJ0r30xE=; X-YMail-OSG: Q9R3IRkVM1mm16T6n_Uu6dUVUT3NVQZr0BSZegQcvhJ3zsdMpBwUcwQYbZBWGjrPcvyyKOlJsSdQwBt0QwC6AdBhYpCQi11PZlddgdbhqxnp8oSEnBUXQ_wTNlgAga7.N1iPR79FVcFszSTPae1qMuwfixZgMitY7dcNlt3YeEONESUf08xZexVgiKeE2sFCKCCaIEh.hirKP9kWGT0ylF7abf37 Received: from [76.19.255.157] by web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:50:18 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:50:18 -0800 (PST) From: Gerald Ash To: Martin Stiemerling , Magnus Westerlund In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC636@VENUS.office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <321834.42427.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: gash5107@yahoo.com List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1201862666==" Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org --===============1201862666== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1768430978-1232995818=:42427" --0-1768430978-1232995818=:42427 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks a lot Martin for the update and for moving things along in NSIS. =A0 It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have been i= n=A0his queue for months.=A0 It would be good to get these documents review= ed so they can move=A0forward to the IESG. =A0 Jerry --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Martin Stiemerling wrote: From: Martin Stiemerling Subject: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) To: nsis@ietf.org Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 8:56 AM Dear all, Just some general information where we are right now with our milestones. We have submitted these drafts to our AD/IESG: - GIST - QoS NSLP - NATFW NSLP - Y.1541 - QSPEC These milestones are still open Sep 2008=09 =09Submit 'Applicability Statement of NSIS Protocols in Mobile Environments' to the IESG as an Informational RFC Sep 2008=09 =09Submit 'RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC Nov 2008=09 =09Submit 'GIST State Machine' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC Nov 2008=09 =09Submit 'NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC Dec 2008=09 =09Submit 'NSIS Extensibility Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC and the GIST over SCTP draft. We need to finish those documents better sooner than later! Martin stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London = W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014=20 _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis =0A=0A=0A --0-1768430978-1232995818=:42427 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks a lot Martin for the update and for moving things along in NSIS.
 
It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have been in his queue for months.  It would be good to get these documents reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG.
 
Jerry

--- On Mon, 1/26/09, Martin Stiemerling <Stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu> wrote:
From: Martin Stiemerling <Stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu>
Subject: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009)
To: nsis@ietf.org
Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 8:56 AM

Dear all,

Just some general information where we are right now with our milestones.

We have submitted these drafts to our AD/IESG:
- GIST
- QoS NSLP
- NATFW NSLP
- Y.1541
- QSPEC

These milestones are still open
Sep 2008	  	Submit 'Applicability Statement of NSIS Protocols in Mobile
Environments' to the IESG as an Informational RFC
Sep 2008	  	Submit 'RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS
Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC
Nov 2008	  	Submit 'GIST State Machine' to the IESG for publication as
an Informational RFC
Nov 2008	  	Submit 'NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels' to the IESG for
publication as an Informational RFC
Dec 2008	  	Submit 'NSIS Extensibility Model' to the IESG for
publication as an Informational RFC

and the  GIST over SCTP draft.

We need to finish those documents better sooner than later!


  Martin

stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu

NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division
NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3
6BL | Registered in England 2832014 

_______________________________________________
nsis mailing list
nsis@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis

--0-1768430978-1232995818=:42427-- --===============1201862666== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis --===============1201862666==-- From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 00:33:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477923A6B23; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:33:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C62D3A6B23 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:33:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.431 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.431 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.168, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kec14ka8hM68 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72113A6A24 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32082C0008DF for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:33:01 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Jl6UEKCpeP0 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:33:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx1.office [192.168.24.3]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30392C0000EB for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:32:56 +0100 (CET) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:32:56 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft thread-index: Acl/vw5NWijLz2LuQ4SQhwmuytNRTQAmqVqg References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org The new file name should basically read this way (copy'n'paste error): draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. Thanks to Hannes for pointing this Martin stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Martin Stiemerling > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM > To: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft > > Dear all, > > We have a draft to be completed urgently :) > > Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family > draft-nsis-ext-02.txt > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 > > > First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis-ext- > 02.txt. > > Please review it and send your comments. > > Martin > > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, > London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 02:12:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6C13A69D4; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:12:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878F93A692A for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:12:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E+wj4TEwLzY0 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598EC3A67B3 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id DD90421EB1; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:11:52 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-ad75dbb00000304c-36-497edde3eed5 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C45F721EEE; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:11:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.177]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:11:47 +0100 Received: from [147.214.183.23] ([147.214.183.23]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:11:46 +0100 Message-ID: <497EDDE2.7040805@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:11:46 +0100 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gash5107@yahoo.com References: <321834.42427.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <321834.42427.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2009 10:11:46.0557 (UTC) FILETIME=[A934DAD0:01C98067] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Gerald Ash skrev: > Thanks a lot Martin for the update and for moving things along in NSIS. > = > It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have > been in his queue for months. It would be good to get these documents > reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG. Hi, Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. The reason is that I really like to see GIST approved before processing the other documents. If we can't get GIST approved the rest of the documents has little value. Therefore I have been sitting on them. I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that we really can go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for will be sufficient to get this approved. However, with this document I will not promise anything. Cheers Magnus Westerlund IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 09:04:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0515A3A6A09; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:04:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8748A28C0EE for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:04:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.957 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.957 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.182, BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9wyUyjtOUo-s for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com (web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com [69.147.97.73]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 92FD028C0D6 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24943 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2009 17:03:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=1w2nb/yJVYRZzTgDkdH+9jzxqHcDYAySZPnotF072VTj8y5gdKl+Jv/2mSWBGbyjsSR+DnPzfnZ8MbB8yWOlpvso36g3+/vC9jMbSdaSEKagwwF4ETALZWYz0JvdVKg9PyI3mdWjFSMumJlpCnfa/Enr0UIohK50pRAgHo1K93U=; X-YMail-OSG: 9tvTQJ0VM1lCApCk6jPTZYcooq2LIkhraXKMxjjDdc3TF5nrHb2cEaQjdeAWhkH0U0M.aGLJO6q3VQs.pihISnFpusJ9OO3Sa8Gp3iJ214wckuHx7v.CNvPNddasstGIsqM_Gvu9lGh6BVI12V3SolGLCqQ_ Received: from [76.19.255.157] by web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:03:43 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Gerald Ash To: Magnus Westerlund In-Reply-To: <497EDDE2.7040805@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: gash5107@yahoo.com List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1876865182==" Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org --===============1876865182== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-438895887-1233075823=:22929" --0-438895887-1233075823=:22929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Magnus, =A0 >> It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have >> been in his queue for months.=A0 It would be good to get these documents >> reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG. > Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. The reason > is that I really like to see GIST approved before processing the other > documents. If we can't get GIST approved the rest of the documents has > little value. Therefore I have been sitting on them. >=20 > I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that we really can > go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for will be sufficient to get > this approved. However, with this document I will not promise anything. =A0 I fail to see the logic in waiting for GIST to be approved=A0before progres= sing other NSIS documents.=A0 IMO we should make the assumption that GIST w= ill be approved after DISCUSS's are addressed to the IESG's satisfaction.= =A0 Waiting for GIST completion to progress other=A0NSIS documents=A0just f= urther delays=A0these documents from getting into the IESG queue and prolon= gs the NSIS WG from completing its work (which has gone on too many years n= ow).=A0 The=A0NSIS authors/editors are=A0doing their part in progressing th= eir documents.=A0 I urge you to do your part=A0in=A0meeting the WG mileston= es (some of which are almost=A0a year overdue). =A0 Thanks, Jerry=0A=0A=0A --0-438895887-1233075823=:22929 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Magnus,
 
>> It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have
>> been in his queue for months.  It would be good to get these documents
>> reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG.
> Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. The reason
> is that I really like to see GIST approved before processing the other
> documents. If we can't get GIST approved the rest of the documents has
> little value. Therefore I have been sitting on them.
>
> I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that we really can
> go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for will be sufficient to get
> this approved. However, with this document I will not promise anything.
 
I fail to see the logic in waiting for GIST to be approved before progressing other NSIS documents.  IMO we should make the assumption that GIST will be approved after DISCUSS's are addressed to the IESG's satisfaction.  Waiting for GIST completion to progress other NSIS documents just further delays these documents from getting into the IESG queue and prolongs the NSIS WG from completing its work (which has gone on too many years now).  The NSIS authors/editors are doing their part in progressing their documents.  I urge you to do your part in meeting the WG milestones (some of which are almost a year overdue).
 
Thanks,
Jerry

--0-438895887-1233075823=:22929-- --===============1876865182== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis --===============1876865182==-- From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 01:25:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219DC28C248; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:25:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026BA28C248 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:25:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FcCSK0WTOji4 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01DF28C0CF for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ewi977 (ewi977.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.129]) by rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0S9OwXt004970; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:25:02 +0100 (MET) From: "Georgios Karagiannis" To: "'Magnus Westerlund'" References: <321834.42427.qm@web63608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <497EDDE2.7040805@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c9812a$4a0486f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <497EDDE2.7040805@ericsson.com> Thread-Index: AcmAZ7fGuySHcIchQK2md1MldYr/FAAwfaLQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 130.89.10.5 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0rc3 (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:25:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi Magnus So what you are really saying is that the WG should focus and do its best = to update the GIST draft as soon as possible! I think that I agree with you! = What are the comments of IESG on GIST? Best regards, Georgios > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On = > Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund > Sent: dinsdag 27 januari 2009 11:12 > To: gash5107@yahoo.com > Cc: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) > = > Gerald Ash skrev: > > Thanks a lot Martin for the update and for moving things = > along in NSIS. > > = > > It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, = > some have = > > been in his queue for months. It would be good to get = > these documents = > > reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG. > = > Hi, > = > Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. = > The reason is that I really like to see GIST approved before = > processing the other documents. If we can't get GIST approved = > the rest of the documents has little value. Therefore I have = > been sitting on them. > = > I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that we = > really can go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for = > will be sufficient to get this approved. However, with this = > document I will not promise anything. > = > Cheers > = > Magnus Westerlund > = > IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > = _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 02:05:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED2D3A6BF2; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:05:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9236828C24E for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:02:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.111 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pcrt1bXYwc-E for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:02:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-n.franken.de (drew.ipv6.franken.de [IPv6:2001:638:a02:a001:20e:cff:fe4a:feaa]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80CC28C24D for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2002:508f:e793::21e:52ff:fe71:c926] (unknown [IPv6:2002:508f:e793:0:21e:52ff:fe71:c926]) by mail-n.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374BA1C0C0BC0 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:02:07 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <62F68B5D-3952-4146-A2A3-EB9ED896671D@fh-muenster.de> From: Michael Tuexen To: nsis@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:02:03 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:05:45 -0800 Subject: [NSIS] draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I have read draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt and it looks good to me. Best regards Michael _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 02:53:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4272128C130; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:53:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B4128C130 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:53:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.162 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.162 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WELl8+UH73fI for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC0428C10F for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 5CEDA20D4F; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:53:30 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-af761bb00000304c-c3-4980392ab5ab Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4DA73203CD; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:53:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.177]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:53:29 +0100 Received: from [147.214.183.23] ([147.214.183.23]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:53:29 +0100 Message-ID: <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:53:29 +0100 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gash5107@yahoo.com References: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2009 10:53:29.0738 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7A1B6A0:01C98136] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Gerald Ash skrev: > Magnus, > = >>> It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have >>> been in his queue for months. It would be good to get these documents >>> reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG. >> Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. The reason >> is that I really like to see GIST approved before processing the other >> documents. If we can't get GIST approved the rest of the documents has >> little value. Therefore I have been sitting on them. >> >> I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that we really can >> go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for will be sufficient to get >> this approved. However, with this document I will not promise anything. > = > I fail to see the logic in waiting for GIST to be approved before > progressing other NSIS documents. IMO we should make the assumption > that GIST will be approved after DISCUSS's are addressed to the IESG's > satisfaction. Waiting for GIST completion to progress other NSIS > documents just further delays these documents from getting into the IESG > queue and prolongs the NSIS WG from completing its work (which has gone > on too many years now). The NSIS authors/editors are doing their part > in progressing their documents. I urge you to do your part in meeting > the WG milestones (some of which are almost a year overdue). > = Gerald, after having participated in over 2 years of discussion around GIST I think it will be published without any more significant changes. But until I have seen the others in IESG abandon their Abstain positions I am not certain of it. The fact that these changes does affect the NSLP documents have made me put of this review until I have seen clear progress of GIST. I fully agree that all NSIS work has gone on too long. But me spending too much time reviewing the documents that may need to change isn't productive. I will continue with my AD reviews of the NSIS documents when I cleared out the others that I know can make progress. Best Regards Magnus Westerlund IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 05:24:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E62A3A68F0; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:24:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF4D3A68F0 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:24:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jrWvGl+t6qA7 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsys001x.roke.co.uk (rsys001x.roke.co.uk [193.118.201.108]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A263A6813 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsys005a.comm.ad.roke.co.uk ([193.118.193.85]) by rsys001x.roke.co.uk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n0SDNuCn029631 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:23:56 GMT Received: from [193.118.198.25] ([193.118.198.25]) by rsys005a.comm.ad.roke.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:23:56 +0000 Message-ID: <49805C6C.203@roke.co.uk> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:23:56 +0000 From: "McDonald, Andrew" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nsis References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2009 13:23:56.0390 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABEF8060:01C9814B] X-roke-co-uk-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-roke-co-uk-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-roke-co-uk-MailScanner-From: andrew.mcdonald@roke.co.uk Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Martin Stiemerling wrote: > We start the WGLC on > > draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > General Internet Signaling Transport (GIST) over SCTP. Mostly looks good. However, the definition of the use of DTLS for GIST appears a bit weak. This is picked up in more detail below. Comments: The definition of SendMessage doesn't /exactly/ match the one in the GIST draft, it would be better if it did (since it would avoid any future questions about why it is slightly different). The definition of NetworkNotification doesn't match the one in the GIST draft, which includes NSLPID as the first parameter. I assume this is an oversight (probably caused by a later change to the GIST draft). A security considerations section normally just discusses the security properties of the protocol, rather than actually defining new protocol components. It might be better to have a "Use of DTLS with GIST" section separate from the security considerations. On a similar topic, it might be better for the document to be renamed, e.g. to "GIST over SCTP and DTLS" to flag up the fact that use of DTLS with GIST is defined here. This is particularly relevant since DTLS might be used with some transport other than SCTP in the future. The introduction and overview sections also fail to mention that DTLS use is being defined in this document. The GIST document (section 5.7.3) says of TLS: "Support for this protocol in conjunction with TCP is REQUIRED; ...". Should a similar statement be made about SCTP/DTLS? i.e., if you are implementing SCTP you MUST implement DTLS, or is the fact that TLS is already a MUST in GIST enough to give you /a/ security solution even if not the best solution? It might be useful to explicitly say that "No MA-Protocol-Options are required for DTLS." Recent GIST drafts added quite a bit of text (section 5.7.3) on the use of TLS with regard to TLS versions, ciphersuites, authentication mechanisms and identity checking. The definition of DTLS seems rather thin in comparison. It is probably the case that some of the usage instructions could be included for DTLS by references to the TLS section of the GIST document. It might be useful to note whether TLS (as already defined for GIST) with SCTP is a valid option for an MA protocol stack. I guess it is, but is less desirable for the reasons given in the dtls-for-sctp document. This is particularly needed if TLS is mandatory, but DTLS isn't (see earlier comment). In the IANA considerations it might be useful to provide the actual table entries for IANA to just drop in - comparing to the ones in the GIST draft, the ones there are a bit wordier than just "Forwards-SCTP". Typo: section 3.4: "repeatet" -> "repeated" best regards, Andrew _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 08:29:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7FA3A6BD0; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:29:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD563A6AA8 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:29:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EeBGlM17sPsb for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471703A6925 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbz-31.cs.helsinki.fi (melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.99]) (AUTH: PLAIN cs-relay, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:28:56 +0200 id 0008C119.498087C8.00004F7F Received: by sbz-31.cs.helsinki.fi (Postfix, from userid 50703) id 8F25F1409C; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:28:56 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sbz-31.cs.helsinki.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C03913F96; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:28:56 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:28:56 +0200 (EET) From: Lauri J T Liuhto To: Martin Stiemerling In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> Message-ID: References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Martin Stiemerling wrote: > Dear all, > We start the WGLC on > draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt Hi, I've read the draft, and found no big issues. - Introduction, page 3, paragraph 3: Typo 'Furturemore' - 3.1.2, page 4 "SCD" seems to refer to Stack Configuration Data of GIST spec, but no such abbreviation is given earlier. I think that a short bullet could be created into chapter 2. - Reference to the GIST spec is for an old version - Just like Andrew already said, I also would like to see the API functions as given in GIST spec I also second Andrew, the definition of use of DTLS for GIST seems weak. Specifically, the protocol definition for Forwards-DTLS is missing. I feel that the short text in Security Considerations chapter is not enough. Best Regards, Lauri -- Lauri Liuhto _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 29 10:34:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E0F3A6AFA; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D186428C1FC for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:34:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.593 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.483, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5iJ5pevrwp0 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7313A3A6AFA for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Jan 2009 18:33:51 -0000 Received: from a91-154-108-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO 4FIL42860) [91.154.108.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 29 Jan 2009 19:33:51 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/L6PNw+n7L9DZtmKRb5Qfk+yr2hu9TUcvfVF89KO zz+zXn5Moji3oJ From: "Hannes Tschofenig" To: , "'Magnus Westerlund'" References: <497EDDE2.7040805@ericsson.com> <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:34:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c98240$3b872440$0201a8c0@nsnintra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thread-Index: AcmAoThVC8NHHEmlR8aNpDQ/KaxUcAAH8+wg X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.83 Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org I have to agree with Jerry. Given that it takes a long time for documents to find their way through various queues I would publish them ASAP. ________________________________ From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Ash Sent: 27 January, 2009 19:04 To: Magnus Westerlund Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) Magnus, >> It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to review, some have >> been in his queue for months. It would be good to get these documents >> reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG. > Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. The reason > is that I really like to see GIST approved before processing the other > documents. If we can't get GIST approved the rest of the documents has > little value. Therefore I have been sitting on them. > > I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that we really can > go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for will be sufficient to get > this approved. However, with this document I will not promise anything. I fail to see the logic in waiting for GIST to be approved before progressing other NSIS documents. IMO we should make the assumption that GIST will be approved after DISCUSS's are addressed to the IESG's satisfaction. Waiting for GIST completion to progress other NSIS documents just further delays these documents from getting into the IESG queue and prolongs the NSIS WG from completing its work (which has gone on too many years now). The NSIS authors/editors are doing their part in progressing their documents. I urge you to do your part in meeting the WG milestones (some of which are almost a year overdue). Thanks, Jerry _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 30 00:58:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F2D28C211; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:58:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E49A28C15E for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:58:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.204 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.204 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSGt2utvCkOy for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006603A6B03 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ewi977 (ewi977.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.129]) by rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n0U8wH1r018377; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:58:21 +0100 (MET) From: "Georgios Karagiannis" To: "'Magnus Westerlund'" , References: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:58:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c982b8$e68af6f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcmBNrKEgpLD8UobTh2dTV9KxZtLOQBgOEcg X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 130.89.10.5 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0rc3 (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]); Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:58:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi Magnus But which actions could the NSIS WG take in order to help some of the IESG members to abandon their abstain positions? Best regards, Georgios > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On = > Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund > Sent: woensdag 28 januari 2009 11:53 > To: gash5107@yahoo.com > Cc: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) > = > Gerald Ash skrev: > > Magnus, > > = > >>> It looks like Magnus has a backlog of documents to = > review, some have = > >>> been in his queue for months. It would be good to get these = > >>> documents reviewed so they can move forward to the IESG. > >> Most of NSIS documents hasn't really been touched by me yet. The = > >> reason is that I really like to see GIST approved before = > processing = > >> the other documents. If we can't get GIST approved the rest of the = > >> documents has little value. Therefore I have been sitting on them. > >> > >> I hope we can get an updated version of GIST soon so that = > we really = > >> can go forward. I hope the update I am waiting for will be = > sufficient = > >> to get this approved. However, with this document I will = > not promise anything. > > = > > I fail to see the logic in waiting for GIST to be approved before = > > progressing other NSIS documents. IMO we should make the = > assumption = > > that GIST will be approved after DISCUSS's are addressed to = > the IESG's = > > satisfaction. Waiting for GIST completion to progress other NSIS = > > documents just further delays these documents from getting into the = > > IESG queue and prolongs the NSIS WG from completing its work (which = > > has gone on too many years now). The NSIS authors/editors = > are doing = > > their part in progressing their documents. I urge you to = > do your part = > > in meeting the WG milestones (some of which are almost a = > year overdue). > > = > = > Gerald, > = > after having participated in over 2 years of discussion = > around GIST I think it will be published without any more = > significant changes. But until I have seen the others in IESG = > abandon their Abstain positions I am not certain of it. The = > fact that these changes does affect the NSLP documents have = > made me put of this review until I have seen clear progress of GIST. > = > I fully agree that all NSIS work has gone on too long. But me = > spending too much time reviewing the documents that may need = > to change isn't productive. I will continue with my AD = > reviews of the NSIS documents when I cleared out the others = > that I know can make progress. > = > Best Regards > = > Magnus Westerlund > = > IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > = _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 30 02:34:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A724B3A6A87; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:34:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA1F3A6A87 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:34:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0wVfwIW5uMdY for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5ED3A68EC for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 097F221393; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:33:50 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-aef60bb00000304c-9f-4982d78d0eec Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id E394521377; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:33:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.175]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:33:49 +0100 Received: from [147.214.183.23] ([147.214.183.23]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:33:49 +0100 Message-ID: <4982D78D.4070308@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:33:49 +0100 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Georgios Karagiannis References: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> <000001c982b8$e68af6f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> In-Reply-To: <000001c982b8$e68af6f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2009 10:33:49.0386 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CE9CAA0:01C982C6] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Georgios Karagiannis skrev: > Hi Magnus > = > But which actions could the NSIS WG take in order to help > some of the IESG members to abandon their abstain positions? A good question to which I don't have a good answer. After the last discussion my tally was that it will be publishable after the next update that take cares of the RTG ADs complaint about the interception text. But it will be with no margin in this case. Actually I don't understand Chris and Lisa's abstain position as I think the document is no longer than many other base specifications nor that the quality is lacking. But they haven't been swayed by any discussion either. I can say that the fallback plan is experimental status as then several of the abstainies would move to no-obj. But I still hope to avoid that. Cheers Magnus Westerlund IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 30 02:47:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074BB3A6A13; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C89B28C15B for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kzqsGiLgePGF for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3622D3A69D4 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 003B621130; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:47:34 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-ae75fbb00000304c-30-4982dac67a4f Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C7DFD20B68; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:47:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:47:20 +0100 Received: from [147.214.183.23] ([147.214.183.23]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:47:19 +0100 Message-ID: <4982DAB7.20204@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:47:19 +0100 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund References: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> <000001c982b8$e68af6f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> <4982D78D.4070308@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4982D78D.4070308@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2009 10:47:19.0696 (UTC) FILETIME=[1FE54900:01C982C8] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: Georgios Karagiannis , nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi, It has been brought to my attention that I missed that Chris already is no-obj. Cheers Magnus Magnus Westerlund skrev: > Georgios Karagiannis skrev: >> Hi Magnus >> >> But which actions could the NSIS WG take in order to help >> some of the IESG members to abandon their abstain positions? > = > A good question to which I don't have a good answer. After the last > discussion my tally was that it will be publishable after the next > update that take cares of the RTG ADs complaint about the interception > text. But it will be with no margin in this case. > = > Actually I don't understand Chris and Lisa's abstain position as I think > the document is no longer than many other base specifications nor that > the quality is lacking. But they haven't been swayed by any discussion > either. > = > I can say that the fallback plan is experimental status as then several > of the abstainies would move to no-obj. But I still hope to avoid that. > = > Cheers > = > Magnus Westerlund > = > IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > = -- = Magnus Westerlund IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis From nsis-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 30 07:29:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-nsis-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5753A6A47; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:29:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2892C3A6A47 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:29:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.348, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JVEv+HcMU+7D for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658AC3A69ED for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LSvJ7-00074s-HL; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:29:28 +0100 Received: from i72ms.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.70.5] helo=smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de) by irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LSvJ7-0005EY-Df; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:29:25 +0100 Received: from vorta.tm.uka.de (vorta.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de [IPv6:2001:638:204:6:21b:fcff:fe96:fe02]) by smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4432FC037; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:29:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vorta.tm.uka.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FED10236; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:29:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49831CD5.2060508@tm.uka.de> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:29:25 +0100 From: Roland Bless Organization: Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund References: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> <000001c982b8$e68af6f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> <4982D78D.4070308@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4982D78D.4070308@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: Kaspersky (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: nsis-bounces@ietf.org Hi Magnus, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Actually I don't understand Chris and Lisa's abstain position as I think > the document is no longer than many other base specifications nor that > the quality is lacking. But they haven't been swayed by any discussion > either. I don't understand Lisa's comment: "I do not feel it has the quality we expect on the standards track." Could she back up this a little bit further? This is a rather generic but strong statement. One could turn any specific criticism probably even into a constructive one, but this is a little coarse. What about the IETF credo "running code"? The doc is fine enough to get more than a hands full of interoperable implementations (which is required not until going to draft standard BTW). In the past there were also comments that it's too complex to implement, but the available implementations should be proof enough that this really isn't the case. IMHO the GIST spec is well written, understandable and has a consistent protocol definition, which isn't weird or flawed. Any path-coupled signaling protocol will have to do very similar things and currently I don't see a better way how to do it. Furthermore, all NAT stuff makes things worse, which wasn't even considered for RSVP. We are now in the 8th year, guys. Let's get this thing off the table... Regards, Roland _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis