Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331B328C276 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:09:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.126, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOKGlUvp8i7Q for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from c.painless.aaisp.net.uk (2.c.b.2.7.9.e.f.f.f.8.4.0.3.2.0.0.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.b.8.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa [IPv6:2001:8b0:0:30:230:48ff:fe97:2bc2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170AC28C26F for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 247.254.187.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.187.254.247]) by c.painless.aaisp.net.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LUmBM-00050I-9r; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:09:04 +0000 Message-ID: <4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:14:21 +0000 From: Elwyn Davies User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:09:27 -0000 Hi, Magnus. At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance on the way forward with this document. Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this document at the same time as GIST this is urgent. The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the meeting is to 'separate the rules and guidelines.' Any input gratefully received. In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to change the title. Regards, Elwyn Martin Stiemerling wrote: > The new file name should basically read this way (copy'n'paste error): > draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. > > Thanks to Hannes for pointing this > > Martin > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Martin Stiemerling >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM >> To: nsis@ietf.org >> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft >> >> Dear all, >> >> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) >> >> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family >> draft-nsis-ext-02.txt >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 >> >> >> First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis-ext- >> 02.txt. >> >> Please review it and send your comments. >> >> Martin >> >> >> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >> >> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division >> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, >> London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nsis mailing list >> nsis@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@ietf.org Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id D073C3A6A41; Thu, 5 Feb 2009 00:45:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090205084501.D073C3A6A41@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 00:45:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: [NSIS] I-D Action:draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:45:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Next Steps in Signaling Working Group of the IETF. Title : Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family Author(s) : J. Manner, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2009-02-04 This document gives an overview of the Next Steps in Signaling (NSIS) framework and protocol suite created by the NSIS working group during the period 2001-2008 together with suggestions on how the industry can make use of the new protocols, and how the community can exploit the extensibility of both the framework and existing protocols to address future signaling needs. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-02-05003047.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC42E3A680C for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:07:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acvHJFfFMuem for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526E13A67C0 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73CC2C01CA1D for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:07:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ds+TsZfV6cJI for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:07:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx2.office [192.168.24.15]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9E62C01CA0F for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:07:25 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:07:09 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C698850@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt Thread-Index: Acl/vlfQIV/INELNQD27Cu7FYOvEcgQV4hAA References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:07:26 -0000 A friendly reminder to get your review done :) For the authors: Please address the raised issues. Martin stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, = London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Martin Stiemerling > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:00 PM > To: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We start the WGLC on >=20 > draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > General Internet Signaling Transport (GIST) over SCTP. >=20 > The WGLC will run for three weeks to get time for all WG members to do > a review of the draft. >=20 > The draft is here: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt >=20 > The WGLC will end Feb 16th 10am CET. >=20 > Martin >=20 > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >=20 > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, > London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027AF28C0F7 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:19:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mwt7YlHLXtaA for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from amailer.gwdg.de (amailer.gwdg.de [134.76.10.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFA828C101 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from s5.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de ([134.76.81.25] helo=[172.23.0.1]) by mailer.gwdg.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZ0ZL-0005Sh-Kb; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:19:19 +0100 Message-ID: <49993EDD.1040809@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:24:29 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu Organization: University of Goettingen, Germany User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "McDonald, Andrew" References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> <49805C6C.203@roke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <49805C6C.203@roke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated: Id:xfu X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie Cc: nsis Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:19:14 -0000 Hi Andrew, Thanks for your very constructive hcomments. See my comments below: McDonald, Andrew wrote: > Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> We start the WGLC on >> draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt >> General Internet Signaling Transport (GIST) over SCTP. > > Mostly looks good. However, the definition of the use of DTLS for GIST > appears a bit weak. This is picked up in more detail below. > > Comments: > > The definition of SendMessage doesn't /exactly/ match the one in the > GIST draft, it would be better if it did (since it would avoid any > future questions about why it is slightly different). > > The definition of NetworkNotification doesn't match the one in the GIST > draft, which includes NSLPID as the first parameter. I assume this is an > oversight (probably caused by a later change to the GIST draft). We will readjust both, actually by removing the definition for both APIs. Rather, we would just add a note mentioning the slightly changed (e.g., Timeout) semantic. > > A security considerations section normally just discusses the security > properties of the protocol, rather than actually defining new protocol > components. It might be better to have a "Use of DTLS with GIST" section > separate from the security considerations. You're right. We could add a new separate section to clarify this in the new version. > > On a similar topic, it might be better for the document to be renamed, > e.g. to "GIST over SCTP and DTLS" to flag up the fact that use of DTLS > with GIST is defined here. This is particularly relevant since DTLS > might be used with some transport other than SCTP in the future. The > introduction and overview sections also fail to mention that DTLS use is > being defined in this document. Changing the title sounds good to me (and given DTLS part as additional feature/section). > > The GIST document (section 5.7.3) says of TLS: "Support for this > protocol in conjunction with TCP is REQUIRED; ...". Should a similar > statement be made about SCTP/DTLS? i.e., if you are implementing SCTP > you MUST implement DTLS, or is the fact that TLS is already a MUST in > GIST enough to give you /a/ security solution even if not the best > solution? DTLS: What about: DTLS MUST be implemented and MAY be enabled in an SCTP implementation. Concerning TLS: Due to the past discussions in the WG list and IETF meetings, it is agreeable for the WG not to take TLS as the secure version for GIST/SCTP, hence we choose to avoid mandating the use of TLS over SCTP/GIST. Anyway, TLS is already mandatory to be implemented for GIST/TCP. TLS: What about: TLS MAY be used for securing GIST/SCTP when PR-SCTP is not used. > It might be useful to explicitly say that "No MA-Protocol-Options are > required for DTLS." Ok. > > Recent GIST drafts added quite a bit of text (section 5.7.3) on the use > of TLS with regard to TLS versions, ciphersuites, authentication > mechanisms and identity checking. The definition of DTLS seems rather > thin in comparison. It is probably the case that some of the usage > instructions could be included for DTLS by references to the TLS section > of the GIST document. Yes, will try to take some text/reference from TLS description from GIST spec. > > It might be useful to note whether TLS (as already defined for GIST) > with SCTP is a valid option for an MA protocol stack. I guess it is, but > is less desirable for the reasons given in the dtls-for-sctp document. > This is particularly needed if TLS is mandatory, but DTLS isn't (see > earlier comment). I think there is a WG consensus (correct me if I'm wrong) here as mentioned in my above comments: - use of TLS is optional for GIST/SCTP (when no PR-SCTP is supported) - implementation of DTLS is mandatory and the use is optional for a GIST/SCTP implementation. > > In the IANA considerations it might be useful to provide the actual > table entries for IANA to just drop in - comparing to the ones in the > GIST draft, the ones there are a bit wordier than just "Forwards-SCTP". Right. Will address. > > Typo: > section 3.4: "repeatet" -> "repeated" Noted. Thanks for your feedbacks again! Cheers, Xiaoming > > best regards, > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA93F28C10E for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:21:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id txR+annQzBgI for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from amailer.gwdg.de (amailer.gwdg.de [134.76.10.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E590B28C0FF for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from s5.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de ([134.76.81.25] helo=[172.23.0.1]) by mailer.gwdg.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZ0bv-0006mY-24; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:21:59 +0100 Message-ID: <49993F7D.7050908@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:27:09 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu Organization: University of Goettingen, Germany User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lauri J T Liuhto References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated: Id:xfu X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:21:57 -0000 Hi Lauri, Thanks for your very helpful comments, my response below: Lauri J T Liuhto wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> Dear all, >> We start the WGLC on >> draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > > Hi, > > I've read the draft, and found no big issues. > > - Introduction, page 3, paragraph 3: Typo 'Furturemore' Thanks - noted. > - 3.1.2, page 4 "SCD" seems to refer to Stack Configuration Data of > GIST spec, but no such abbreviation is given earlier. I think that > a short bullet could be created into chapter 2. Will do > - Reference to the GIST spec is for an old version Will correct. > - Just like Andrew already said, I also would like to see the API > functions as given in GIST spec Yes - will adjust > > I also second Andrew, the definition of use of DTLS for GIST seems > weak. Specifically, the protocol definition for Forwards-DTLS is > missing. I feel that the short text in Security Considerations > chapter is not enough. Thanks - will do! Xiaoming > > Best Regards, > Lauri > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929EE28C0F6 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:39:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ap8WelZaG5uh for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3333A67D2 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ewi977 (ewi977.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.129]) by rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n1GAdWNH004076; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:39:35 +0100 (MET) From: "Georgios Karagiannis" To: "'Martin Stiemerling'" , References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C698850@VENUS.office> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:39:27 +0100 Message-ID: <004601c99022$da9119c0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C698850@VENUS.office> Thread-Index: Acl/vlfQIV/INELNQD27Cu7FYOvEcgQV4hAAAAM6PxA= X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 130.89.10.5 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0rc3 (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:39:35 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:39:27 -0000 Hi all I have read the draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt. Considering that all comments that were addressed until now will be solved, I would like that this draft should move forward! Best regards, Georgios > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Martin Stiemerling > Sent: maandag 16 februari 2009 10:07 > To: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > > A friendly reminder to get your review done :) > > For the authors: Please address the raised issues. > > Martin > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC > Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria > Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf > > Of Martin Stiemerling > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:00 PM > > To: nsis@ietf.org > > Subject: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > > > > Dear all, > > > > We start the WGLC on > > > > draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt General Internet Signaling > > Transport (GIST) over SCTP. > > > > The WGLC will run for three weeks to get time for all WG > members to do > > a review of the draft. > > > > The draft is here: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > > > > The WGLC will end Feb 16th 10am CET. > > > > Martin > > > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC > Europe Limited > > | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | > > Registered in England 2832014 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nsis mailing list > > nsis@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2456D3A6C81 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 04:32:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vut7WmQxpSRv for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 04:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBF53A6C7A for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 04:32:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id BF1F120B9B; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:32:16 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-aca88bb00000127c-ed-49995cd0732d Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 9D77C2048F; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:32:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:32:16 +0100 Received: from [147.214.183.107] ([147.214.183.107]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:32:16 +0100 Message-ID: <49995CD0.8030307@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:32:16 +0100 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roland Bless References: <879197.22929.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49803929.2020008@ericsson.com> <000001c982b8$e68af6f0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> <4982D78D.4070308@ericsson.com> <49831CD5.2060508@tm.uka.de> In-Reply-To: <49831CD5.2060508@tm.uka.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2009 12:32:16.0165 (UTC) FILETIME=[99E7F550:01C99032] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:32:09 -0000 Hi Roland, I hope we don't need to have much discussion about this due to that we will get the document approved anyway. Cheers Magnus Roland Bless skrev: > Hi Magnus, > > Magnus Westerlund wrote: >> Actually I don't understand Chris and Lisa's abstain position as I think >> the document is no longer than many other base specifications nor that >> the quality is lacking. But they haven't been swayed by any discussion >> either. > > I don't understand Lisa's comment: > "I do not feel it has the quality we expect on the standards track." > > Could she back up this a little bit further? This is a rather generic > but strong statement. One could turn any specific criticism > probably even into a constructive one, but this is a little coarse. > > What about the IETF credo "running code"? > The doc is fine enough to get more than a hands full of interoperable > implementations (which is required not until going to draft standard > BTW). In the past there were also comments that it's too complex to > implement, but the available implementations should be proof enough > that this really isn't the case. > IMHO the GIST spec is well written, understandable and has a consistent > protocol definition, which isn't weird or flawed. Any path-coupled > signaling protocol will have to do very similar things and currently > I don't see a better way how to do it. Furthermore, all NAT stuff > makes things worse, which wasn't even considered for RSVP. > We are now in the 8th year, guys. Let's get this thing off the table... > > Regards, > Roland > -- Magnus Westerlund IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3737D3A68A7 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:37:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KmMQ1MBsWby4 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6543A67BD for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LZMO3-0007y6-Ba; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:37:10 +0100 Received: from i72ms.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.70.5] helo=smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de) by irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps id 1LZMO3-0006AF-6i; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:37:07 +0100 Received: from vorta.tm.uka.de (vorta.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de [IPv6:2001:638:204:6:21b:fcff:fe96:fe02]) by smtp.ipv6.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8562FC037; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:37:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vorta.tm.uka.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A8B102A0; Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:37:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <499A8542.9060504@tm.uka.de> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:37:06 +0100 From: Roland Bless Organization: Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Stiemerling References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC639@VENUS.office> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-AV: Kaspersky (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) Cc: nsis@ietf.org Subject: Re: [NSIS] Starting WGLC on draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:37:02 -0000 Hi Martin and all, Martin Stiemerling wrote: > draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > General Internet Signaling Transport (GIST) over SCTP. > > The WGLC will run for three weeks to get time for all WG members to do a review of the draft. > > The draft is here: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-ntlp-sctp-05.txt > > The WGLC will end Feb 16th 10am CET. Finally I've managed to read the draft, but I'm one day too late with my comments (sorry!). Nevertheless, here they are: Section 1: * In the introduction: - not clear whether one should also mention the advantage of message-oriented transport by SCTP instead of using the byte stream oriented TCP where one must provide its own framing mechanisms. - not clear at the end of the 2nd paragraph whether DTLS over SCTP is also in scope of the draft or not. * typo s/extention/extension * PR-SCTP seems to be contradicting to the C-mode (reliable) transport requirements of GIST at first. This must be clarified. Section 2: SCTP Association: it could be mentioned in parentheses that the transport addresses also contain the port number (same remark as in RFC 4960) or that for an SCTP endpoint the following holds: All transport addresses used by an SCTP endpoint must use the same port number, but can use multiple IP addresses. A transport address used by an SCTP endpoint must not be used by another SCTP endpoint. In other words, a transport address is unique to an SCTP endpoint. Section 3.1.1: TLS as protocol specifier is not useful alone. It can only be specified together with another protocol, e.g., Forwards-TCP+TLS. Section 3.1.2: "The destination information MUST..." it is not very clear which destination information is meant, should be clarified that the destination for establishing the SCTP association is meant here (or SCTP endpoint destination). Section 3.3.: It should be clarified under which circumstances the reliability requirements for GIST C-mode messages are still met when PR-SCTP is used. As far as I understood, the "timed reliability" service is only one potential/special use case of PR-SCTP. Section 5.1: To me it makes sense for the path-coupled MRI to limit the available SCTP transport addresses to exactly the one from the NLI, so that only this IP address is used for establishing the SCTP association. This should also be mentioned in Section 3.1.2. Section 6: "For securing _a_ GIST over SCTP channel" A little bit too short to discuss DTLS over SCTP. Forwards-DTLS should be mentioned and motivated and why TLS+SCTP would be different. It is not clear to me whether DTLS over SCTP is still "reliable". DTLS would qualify as being secure but not reliable (GIST would require to establish an MA for this, but I guess it also implies C-mode => reliability?). And finally: What about NAT traversal issues with SCTP? IMHO there should be a short section on discussing this. Can one simply use the NAT traversal object of GIST etc.? Is there anything special? Regards, Roland Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2881128C139 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:44:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hEw45NIZATMN for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mei.co.jp (smtp.mei.co.jp [133.183.100.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BFF028C125 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw.jp.panasonic.com ([157.8.1.145]) by smtp.mei.co.jp (8.12.11.20060614/3.7W/kc-maile11) with ESMTP id n1I9ia0D012320; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-gw.jp.panasonic.com (8.11.6p2/3.7W/somlb2) with ESMTP id n1I9iaG00469; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from epochmail.jp.panasonic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.jp.panasonic.com (8.11.6p2/3.7W/kc-maili01) with ESMTP id n1I9iaq26048; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by epochmail.jp.panasonic.com (8.12.11.20060308/3.7W/somla1) id n1I9iaV4011311; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from [10.74.65.6] by somla1.jp.panasonic.com (8.12.11.20060308/3.7W) with ESMTP id n1I9iZNs011271; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:44:35 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:41:41 +0900 From: Takako Sanda To: "Martin Stiemerling" , nsis@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC636@VENUS.office> References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC636@VENUS.office> Message-Id: <20090218183345.D9A9.81C99D22@jp.panasonic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.45.02 [ja] Subject: Re: [NSIS] Status of the WG (January 2009) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:44:26 -0000 Dear Martin and all, Sorry to be late. As for 'Applicability Statement of NSIS Protocols in Mobile Environments', only remaining part is "NAT/FW NSLP". In order to finish the draft, text proposals for Chapter 4 (after section 4.2. "QoS NSLP") from responsible people will be necessary :-) BR, Takako On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:56:13 +0100 "Martin Stiemerling" wrote: > Dear all, > > Just some general information where we are right now with our milestones. > > We have submitted these drafts to our AD/IESG: > - GIST > - QoS NSLP > - NATFW NSLP > - Y.1541 > - QSPEC > > These milestones are still open > Sep 2008 Submit 'Applicability Statement of NSIS Protocols in Mobile Environments' to the IESG as an Informational RFC > Sep 2008 Submit 'RMD-QOSM - The Resource Management in Diffserv QOS Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC > Nov 2008 Submit 'GIST State Machine' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC > Nov 2008 Submit 'NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC > Dec 2008 Submit 'NSIS Extensibility Model' to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC > > and the GIST over SCTP draft. > > We need to finish those documents better sooner than later! > > > Martin > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C186B28C27E for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:01:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jh7blCRl0pmF for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:01:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9D23A6B67 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:01:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from wrl-104.cs.helsinki.fi (wrl-104.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.166.224]) (TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:02:08 +0200 id 0009C6BF.499E9BC0.00000930 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:02:08 +0200 (EET) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: NSIS Working Group In-Reply-To: <4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office> <4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:01:57 -0000 Dear all, We would really need feedback to this draft to finalize it. I would like to issue a WGLC very soon, thus, one round of comments would be good to have before that. Alternatively, we can also issue a WGLC now, and discuss the comments in SF. Still, I'd rather see one round of comments before a WGLC. Regards, Jukka On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Elwyn Davies wrote: > Hi, Magnus. > > At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance on the way > forward with this document. > > Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this document at the > same time as GIST this is urgent. > > The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the meeting is to > 'separate the rules and guidelines.' > > Any input gratefully received. > In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to change the > title. > > Regards, > Elwyn > > Martin Stiemerling wrote: > > The new file name should basically read this way (copy'n'paste error): > > draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. > > > > Thanks to Hannes for pointing this > > > > Martin > > > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > >> Martin Stiemerling > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM > >> To: nsis@ietf.org > >> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) > >> > >> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family > >> draft-nsis-ext-02.txt > >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 > >> > >> > >> First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis-ext- > >> 02.txt. > >> > >> Please review it and send your comments. > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > >> > >> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > >> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, > >> London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nsis mailing list > >> nsis@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nsis mailing list > > nsis@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2D63A68BF for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:26:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.035 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.035 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.564, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pwq1SRBHj72t for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from a.painless.aaisp.net.uk (d.5.0.d.2.7.e.f.f.f.8.4.0.3.2.0.0.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.b.8.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa [IPv6:2001:8b0:0:30:230:48ff:fe72:d05d]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE7F28C27B for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from study.folly.org.uk ([81.187.254.244] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by a.painless.aaisp.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LaUSM-0006Rj-Mu; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:26:14 +0000 Message-ID: <499EA156.9000402@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:25:58 +0000 From: Elwyn Davies User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jukka MJ Manner References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office> <4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: NSIS Working Group Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:26:04 -0000 Hi. Just for the record, I am unlikely to be still in Sf on Friday and am considering skipping the IETf meeting as such altogther (I will be at the DTNRG meeting the previous week and probably in the DTNRG session on Friday, but I can't really justify the registration fee for the little I am doing in IETf at the moment (plus the very expensive hotel!) I looked back at the doc and my feeling is that it is fairly clear what is rules and what is guidelines already, but I could do a bit more separation.. I'd like a bit of help and (detailed) comments please. I am almost inclined to suggest going with wglc now. Regards, Elwyn Jukka MJ Manner wrote: > Dear all, > > We would really need feedback to this draft to finalize it. I would like > to issue a WGLC very soon, thus, one round of comments would be good to > have before that. > > Alternatively, we can also issue a WGLC now, and discuss the comments in > SF. Still, I'd rather see one round of comments before a WGLC. > > Regards, > Jukka > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Elwyn Davies wrote: > > >> Hi, Magnus. >> >> At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance on the way >> forward with this document. >> >> Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this document at the >> same time as GIST this is urgent. >> >> The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the meeting is to >> 'separate the rules and guidelines.' >> >> Any input gratefully received. >> In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to change the >> title. >> >> Regards, >> Elwyn >> >> Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> >>> The new file name should basically read this way (copy'n'paste error): >>> draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. >>> >>> Thanks to Hannes for pointing this >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >>> >>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division >>> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Martin Stiemerling >>>> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM >>>> To: nsis@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) >>>> >>>> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family >>>> draft-nsis-ext-02.txt >>>> >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 >>>> >>>> >>>> First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis-ext- >>>> 02.txt. >>>> >>>> Please review it and send your comments. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >>>> >>>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division >>>> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, >>>> London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nsis mailing list >>>> nsis@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nsis mailing list >>> nsis@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nsis mailing list >> nsis@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5423A6818 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:44:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.165, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eJnuk9EHhFLl for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from b.painless.aaisp.net.uk (b.painless.aaisp.net.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:0:30::51bb:1e34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D2E3A67B3 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:44:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from 251.254.187.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.187.254.251]) by b.painless.aaisp.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LaUkD-0003Qh-20; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:44:41 +0000 Message-ID: <499EA5B6.4060102@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:44:38 +0000 From: Elwyn Davies User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jukka MJ Manner References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office> <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office> <4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (Version: ClamAV 0.94/9015/Thu Feb 19 18:30:06 2009, by smtp.aaisp.net.uk) Cc: NSIS Working Group Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft (corrected) X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:44:44 -0000 Hi. Just for the record, I am unlikely to be still in Sf on Friday and am considering skipping the IETf meeting as such altogther (I will be at the DTNRG meeting the previous week and probably in the DTNRG session on Tuesday (not Friday as my addled brain said previously), but I can't really justify the registration fee for the little I am doing in IETf at the moment (plus the very expensive hotel!) I looked back at the doc and my feeling is that it is fairly clear what is rules and what is guidelines already, but I could do a bit more separation.. I'd like a bit of help and (detailed) comments please. I am almost inclined to suggest going with wglc now. Regards, Elwyn Jukka MJ Manner wrote: > Dear all, > > We would really need feedback to this draft to finalize it. I would like > to issue a WGLC very soon, thus, one round of comments would be good to > have before that. > > Alternatively, we can also issue a WGLC now, and discuss the comments in > SF. Still, I'd rather see one round of comments before a WGLC. > > Regards, > Jukka > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Elwyn Davies wrote: > > >> Hi, Magnus. >> >> At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance on the way >> forward with this document. >> >> Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this document at the >> same time as GIST this is urgent. >> >> The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the meeting is to >> 'separate the rules and guidelines.' >> >> Any input gratefully received. >> In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to change the >> title. >> >> Regards, >> Elwyn >> >> Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> >>> The new file name should basically read this way (copy'n'paste error): >>> draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. >>> >>> Thanks to Hannes for pointing this >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >>> >>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division >>> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Martin Stiemerling >>>> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM >>>> To: nsis@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) >>>> >>>> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family >>>> draft-nsis-ext-02.txt >>>> >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 >>>> >>>> >>>> First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis-ext- >>>> 02.txt. >>>> >>>> Please review it and send your comments. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >>>> >>>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division >>>> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, >>>> London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nsis mailing list >>>> nsis@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nsis mailing list >>> nsis@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nsis mailing list >> nsis@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > _______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CE03A6938 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:13:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mAhxDlXduw-Y for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16DE93A68BF for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B40F2C00030D for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:13:59 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NW2pJ6H4bIyI for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:13:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from VENUS.office (mx2.office [192.168.24.15]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210022C0000EB for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:13:54 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:12:47 +0100 Message-ID: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C698F13@VENUS.office> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft Thread-Index: AcmTUxykBOB/kh/kQCiTPIBXNDnbxgACW17w References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office><547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office><4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> From: "Martin Stiemerling" To: Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:13:46 -0000 Hi, We need especially fulfil the dependency of the GIST draft mentioned in = Section 5.3.2.5. Q-Mode Interception Extensibility of GIST.=20 The text there says: Guidelines on defining interception classes are given in [13]. Where [13] is the extensibility document. Martin=20 stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, = London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Jukka MJ Manner > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 1:02 PM > To: NSIS Working Group > Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft >=20 >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We would really need feedback to this draft to finalize it. I would > like > to issue a WGLC very soon, thus, one round of comments would be good = to > have before that. >=20 > Alternatively, we can also issue a WGLC now, and discuss the comments > in > SF. Still, I'd rather see one round of comments before a WGLC. >=20 > Regards, > Jukka >=20 > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Elwyn Davies wrote: >=20 > > Hi, Magnus. > > > > At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance on the way > > forward with this document. > > > > Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this document at the > > same time as GIST this is urgent. > > > > The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the meeting is > to > > 'separate the rules and guidelines.' > > > > Any input gratefully received. > > In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to change = the > > title. > > > > Regards, > > Elwyn > > > > Martin Stiemerling wrote: > > > The new file name should basically read this way (copy'n'paste > error): > > > draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. > > > > > > Thanks to Hannes for pointing this > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > > > > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > > > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria = Road, > London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of > > >> Martin Stiemerling > > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM > > >> To: nsis@ietf.org > > >> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) > > >> > > >> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family > > >> draft-nsis-ext-02.txt > > >> > > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 > > >> > > >> > > >> First thing to do is changing the file name to draft-ietf-nsis- > ext- > > >> 02.txt. > > >> > > >> Please review it and send your comments. > > >> > > >> Martin > > >> > > >> > > >> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > >> > > >> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division > > >> NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria > Road, > > >> London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nsis mailing list > > >> nsis@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nsis mailing list > > > nsis@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nsis mailing list > > nsis@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240F43A69B1 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 04:05:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KvuiaXnwy8iB for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 04:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E947E28C0EE for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 04:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ewi977 (ewi977.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.12.129]) by rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n1NC5jUm029334; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:05:48 +0100 (MET) From: "Georgios Karagiannis" To: "'Jukka MJ Manner'" , "'NSIS Working Group'" References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office><547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office><4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:05:40 +0100 Message-ID: <006401c995af$0f0ee6a0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcmTUxuE+puSm1UFTR6EVDwEA5wh8QCW8Ezg In-reply-to: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 130.89.10.5 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0rc3 (rotterdam.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.5]); Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:05:49 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:05:34 -0000 Hi Jukka I have read the NSIS extensibilty draft and I think that it is good enough to go through a WGLC. I will provide detailed comments during the WGLC! Best regards, Georgios > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Jukka MJ Manner > Sent: vrijdag 20 februari 2009 13:02 > To: NSIS Working Group > Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft > > > Dear all, > > We would really need feedback to this draft to finalize it. I > would like to issue a WGLC very soon, thus, one round of > comments would be good to have before that. > > Alternatively, we can also issue a WGLC now, and discuss the > comments in SF. Still, I'd rather see one round of comments > before a WGLC. > > Regards, > Jukka > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Elwyn Davies wrote: > > > Hi, Magnus. > > > > At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance on the way > > forward with this document. > > > > Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this > document at the > > same time as GIST this is urgent. > > > > The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the > meeting is to > > 'separate the rules and guidelines.' > > > > Any input gratefully received. > > In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to > change the > > title. > > > > Regards, > > Elwyn > > > > Martin Stiemerling wrote: > > > The new file name should basically read this way > (copy'n'paste error): > > > draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. > > > > > > Thanks to Hannes for pointing this > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > > > > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe > > > Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, > London W3 > > > 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On > > >> Behalf Of Martin Stiemerling > > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM > > >> To: nsis@ietf.org > > >> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) > > >> > > >> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family > draft-nsis-ext-02.txt > > >> > > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 > > >> > > >> > > >> First thing to do is changing the file name to > draft-ietf-nsis-ext- > > >> 02.txt. > > >> > > >> Please review it and send your comments. > > >> > > >> Martin > > >> > > >> > > >> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu > > >> > > >> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe > > >> Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, > London W3 > > >> 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nsis mailing list > > >> nsis@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nsis mailing list > > > nsis@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nsis mailing list > > nsis@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: nsis@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D659D28C15C for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:21:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.321, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lXxqXR1JdB8p for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 54B003A68A6 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:21:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 23 Feb 2009 21:21:37 -0000 Received: from a91-154-108-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO 4FIL42860) [91.154.108.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp058) with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 22:21:37 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/pJ8sFdBfpb+CyscobWFgRNIhI7sstDNl7NiX4N2 ieXnat96Bzzisv From: "Hannes Tschofenig" To: "'Georgios Karagiannis'" , "'Jukka MJ Manner'" , "'NSIS Working Group'" References: <547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC63F@VENUS.office><547F018265F92642B577B986577D671C5DC6D3@VENUS.office><4989DAFD.3060603@dial.pipex.com> <006401c995af$0f0ee6a0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:22:33 +0200 Message-ID: <013901c995fc$d83ec7a0$0201a8c0@nsnintra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <006401c995af$0f0ee6a0$810c5982@dynamic.ewi.utwente.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcmTUxuE+puSm1UFTR6EVDwEA5wh8QCW8EzgABLrMoA= X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.49 Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft X-BeenThere: nsis@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Next Steps in Signaling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:21:24 -0000 Hi all, I also read the document and it looks pretty good. Easy to read and understand. Only a few minor comments: " The SID is not meaningful by itself, but is rather used together with the NSLP identifier (NSLPID) and the Message Routing Information (MRI). This 3-tuple is used by GIST to index and manage the signaling flows. " In a previous paragraph you say that the SID is used for mobility because no IP address is used. I believe this has to be clarified how this statement and the other one from the previous paragraph fits together. " o Path-coupled signaling only: GIST transports messages towards an identified unicast data flow destination based on the signaling application request, and does not directly support path-decoupled signaling, e.g., QoS signaling to a bandwidth broker. The framework also supports a "Loose-End" message routing method used to discover GIST nodes with particular properties in the direction of a given address, for example the NAT/FW NSLP uses this method to discover a NAT along the upstream data path. " I would say "Current MRM focus on Path-coupled Signaling". " No support for QoS architectures based on bandwidth brokers is currently included. " You might need a reference here. Not everyone might be aware of what a bandwidth broker actually is. Section 8, extending the protocols. Section 8.1 is too generic and RFC 2119 language is not useful in this document. I would replace this section with more details on how GIST, the NATFW NSLP and the QoS NSLP are extended. Btw, this document cannot be completed before the normative references become RFCs. Ciao Hannes >-----Original Message----- >From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Georgios Karagiannis >Sent: 23 February, 2009 14:06 >To: 'Jukka MJ Manner'; 'NSIS Working Group' >Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft > >Hi Jukka > >I have read the NSIS extensibilty draft and I think that it >is good enough to go through a WGLC. > >I will provide detailed comments during the WGLC! > >Best regards, >Georgios > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Jukka MJ Manner >> Sent: vrijdag 20 februari 2009 13:02 >> To: NSIS Working Group >> Subject: Re: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> We would really need feedback to this draft to finalize it. I would >> like to issue a WGLC very soon, thus, one round of comments would be >> good to have before that. >> >> Alternatively, we can also issue a WGLC now, and discuss the >comments >> in SF. Still, I'd rather see one round of comments before a WGLC. >> >> Regards, >> Jukka >> >> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Elwyn Davies wrote: >> >> > Hi, Magnus. >> > >> > At the last IETF you offered to provide me some guidance >on the way >> > forward with this document. >> > >> > Since as I understand it, the IESG wants to see this >> document at the >> > same time as GIST this is urgent. >> > >> > The only suggestion I have stemming from comments at the >> meeting is to >> > 'separate the rules and guidelines.' >> > >> > Any input gratefully received. >> > In the meantime I will try to make a 'null' update just to >> change the >> > title. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Elwyn >> > >> > Martin Stiemerling wrote: >> > > The new file name should basically read this way >> (copy'n'paste error): >> > > draft-ietf-nsis-ext-00.txt. >> > > >> > > Thanks to Hannes for pointing this >> > > >> > > Martin >> > > >> > > stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >> > > >> > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe >> > > Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, >> London W3 >> > > 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >> > > >> > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On >> > >> Behalf Of Martin Stiemerling >> > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM >> > >> To: nsis@ietf.org >> > >> Subject: [NSIS] Getting started on NSIS extensibilty draft >> > >> >> > >> Dear all, >> > >> >> > >> We have a draft to be completed urgently :) >> > >> >> > >> Using and Extending the NSIS Protocol Family >> draft-nsis-ext-02.txt >> > >> >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsis-ext-02 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> First thing to do is changing the file name to >> draft-ietf-nsis-ext- >> > >> 02.txt. >> > >> >> > >> Please review it and send your comments. >> > >> >> > >> Martin >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> stiemerling@nw.neclab.eu >> > >> >> > >> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe >> > >> Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, >> London W3 >> > >> 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> nsis mailing list >> > >> nsis@ietf.org >> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nsis mailing list >> > > nsis@ietf.org >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nsis mailing list >> > nsis@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> nsis mailing list >> nsis@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >> > > >_______________________________________________ >nsis mailing list >nsis@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >