From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 06 12:03:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II536-0001MC-VK; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:03:16 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1II536-0001Lf-Js for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:03:16 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II536-0001LK-0A; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:03:16 -0400 Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100] helo=co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1II535-0001IT-Md; Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:03:15 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 06 Aug 2007 12:03:14 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,225,1183348800"; d="scan'208"; a="50610521:sNHT7041972" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:02:37 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: IESG telechat on 8/9 cancelled Thread-Index: AcfYQzW1ez5qx6cxROeqZ8ntOXWWUg== From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , "Aaa-Doctors (E-mail)" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: Subject: [OPS-AREA] IESG telechat on 8/9 cancelled X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org For those who were wondering about the usual bi-weekly mail with the IESG telechat agenda and request to review the documents - the IESG chair decided to cancel the 8/9 telechat because a large number of ADs are on vacation at this date, and there was less than a chorum to approve Proposed Standard or BCP documents. The next telechat is scheduled for 9/23 and it promises to have quite a rich agenda, so please stay tuned.=20 Dan =20 =20 _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 23 07:58:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOBKh-0003Do-NH; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:58:39 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IOBKg-0003Df-2h for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:58:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOBKf-0003DX-PA; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:58:37 -0400 Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100] helo=co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IOBKf-0003sZ-DK; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:58:37 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.16]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 23 Aug 2007 07:58:36 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,300,1183348800"; d="scan'208"; a="56250935:sNHT8019018" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:00 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Request for input from operators - identification of interfaces Thread-Index: AcflfNowkGhk27eLS1q2nvssunUgMg== From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: midcom@ietf.org, dbharrington@comcast.net Subject: [OPS-AREA] Request for input from operators - identification of interfaces X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org During the final review phases of the review of http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-midcom-mib-09.txt the issue described below surfaced. It is actually not completely new, it was discussed in the past in a form or another, and it is not necessarily specific to this document and MIB module only, but also to other MIB modules. We believe that input from network operators can help, and we solicit this input. The MIDCOM-MIB defines tables containing firewall rules, indexed by ifIndex. ifIndex values can change when interfaces are swapped or devices reboot, and this could lead to rules being applied to the wrong interface. How do you, network operators, prefer interfaces be identified?=20 - Is ifIndex the preferred choice even though the indices can change on reboot?=20 - Is ifName a better choice for identifying interfaces in rules, since it is set by the device and remains fairly stable across reboots and is guaranteed to be unique?=20 - is ifAlias a better choice, since it can be set by operators, although it is not guaranteed to be unique? We would appreciate inputs and thank you for your cooperation. Dan _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 26 05:13:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEAN-0001td-7a; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:12:19 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEAL-0001tM-Rk for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:12:18 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEAH-0001rk-4R; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:12:13 -0400 Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100] helo=co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEAF-0003uI-Rt; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:12:13 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.14]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 26 Aug 2007 05:12:08 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,308,1183348800"; d="scan'208"; a="57279315:sNHT7536372" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:11:25 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ifmib mail list Thread-Index: AcfnwRP/2aq3RCMITeO1wVwB4u6fGQ== From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: tbrunner@omneon.com Subject: [OPS-AREA] ifmib mail list X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org The ifmib email lists tops a list of concluded WG lists with very long moderation queues. The IETF chair is asking whether we still find this list useful and should continue to be maintained or rather shut it down. I do not know whether Ted Brunner is still looking at it, we may need to find a new moderator if he is not. Although ifmib was belonging to the Internet Area, many of the participants are probably involved with OPS and MIB work.=20 Opinions?=20 Dan _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 26 05:58:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEsd-0006c9-Tw; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:58:03 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEsd-0006bh-5s for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:58:03 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEsc-0006bX-SX; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:58:02 -0400 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([135.245.0.33]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPEsb-0004lz-IF; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:58:02 -0400 Received: from ilexp02.ndc.lucent.com (h135-3-39-2.lucent.com [135.3.39.2]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id l7Q9vrft027624; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 04:57:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DEEXP01.de.lucent.com ([135.248.187.65]) by ilexp02.ndc.lucent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 26 Aug 2007 04:57:53 -0500 Received: from DEEXC1U02.de.lucent.com ([135.248.187.28]) by DEEXP01.de.lucent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:57:29 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:57:29 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MIB-DOCTORS] ifmib mail list Thread-Index: AcfnwRP/2aq3RCMITeO1wVwB4u6fGQABSeYA References: From: "Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)" To: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2007 09:57:29.0364 (UTC) FILETIME=[83799540:01C7E7C7] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.33 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: tbrunner@omneon.com Subject: [OPS-AREA] RE: [MIB-DOCTORS] ifmib mail list X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org I do not recall the last time I ever saw a posting on ifmib list. I suspect it was several years back. As far as I am concerned we can close the list. Or do we want to advance IF-MIB to full standard? It has been at DS for many years now. I bet their is wide deployment. If any MIB document deserves to be ta STD level, then I would think it is this one. Bert Wijnen =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com]=20 > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:11 AM > To: ops-area@ietf.org; ietfmibs@ietf.org; mib-doctors@ietf.org > Cc: tbrunner@omneon.com > Subject: [MIB-DOCTORS] ifmib mail list >=20 >=20 > The ifmib email lists tops a list of concluded WG lists with=20 > very long moderation queues. The IETF chair is asking whether=20 > we still find this list useful and should continue to be=20 > maintained or rather shut it down. > I do not know whether Ted Brunner is still looking at it, we=20 > may need to find a new moderator if he is not. Although ifmib=20 > was belonging to the Internet Area, many of the participants=20 > are probably involved with OPS and MIB work.=20 >=20 > Opinions?=20 >=20 > Dan >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > MIB-DOCTORS mailing list > MIB-DOCTORS@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mib-doctors >=20 _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 26 21:00:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPSxu-0005t3-1F; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:00:26 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IPSxs-0005sV-WD for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:00:25 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPSxs-0005sG-LC for ops-area@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:00:24 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPSxs-0002De-5N for ops-area@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:00:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 8148 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2007 18:00:18 -0700 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net (209.128.82.1) by shell4.bayarea.net with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 26 Aug 2007 18:00:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:00:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: ietfmibs@ietf.org, mib-doctors@ietf.org, tbrunner@omneon.com, ops-area@ietf.org Subject: [OPS-AREA] RE: [MIB-DOCTORS] ifmib mail list X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org >>>>> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: Bert> I do not recall the last time I ever saw a posting on ifmib list. Bert> I suspect it was several years back. The last message in my personal archive is dated 2 Sep 2004. The last non-administrative message in the official IETF archive is even older. > As far as I am concerned we can close the list. When it was announced that the ifmib WG was concluding, it was stated that the mailing list would be closed: >>>>> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, The IESG wrote: IESG> The Interfaces MIB (ifmib) Working Group in the Internet Area IESG> has concluded. IESG> IESG> The IESG contact persons are Thomas Narten and Margaret IESG> Wasserman. IESG> IESG> The mailing list will be closed. Bert> Or do we want to advance IF-MIB to full standard? It has been Bert> at DS for many years now. I bet their is wide deployment. Bert> If any MIB document deserves to be [to] STD level, then I Bert> would think it is this one. The last time this was discussed on the ifmib mailing list (Oct 2002-May 2003) there were lots of proposals both for bug fixes and enhancements. Your summary of the situation in a message dated 1 Aug 2003 read, in part: Bert> We were trying a while back to just get if-mib advanced to Bert> STD... but the potential chair (back then, but he disappeared Bert> or so it seems) wanted all sorts of other things that I am not Bert> so sure had a wide interest. There is also the companion MIB module IF-INVERTED-STACK-MIB (RFC 2864), which was then (and still is) at PS. Shortly after the ifmib WG closed in September 2003 I asked for implementation reports and got exactly one -- from a vendor that didn't implement it. Maybe today more people would respond to a call for implementation experience for both MIB modules (IF-MIB and IF-INVERTED-STACK-MIB). To anyone who decides to undertake that job I would recommend sending the request to every WG mailing list that deals or dealt with a MIB module that uses the IF-MIB. Mike _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 28 02:31:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPuc7-0005za-2H; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:31:47 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IPoSZ-0001Sw-HZ for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:57:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPoSY-0001Rg-Hs; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:57:30 -0400 Received: from orowa.omneon.com ([12.108.21.238]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPoSX-0001Kf-B0; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:57:30 -0400 Received: from brunnerxp.omneon.com ([10.1.3.32] RDNS failed) by orowa.omneon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:56:28 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:56:27 -0700 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" ,, , From: ted brunner In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Aug 2007 23:56:28.0239 (UTC) FILETIME=[E23215F0:01C7E905] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:31:46 -0400 Cc: tbrunner@omneon.com Subject: [OPS-AREA] Re: ifmib mail list X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Dan- The sad facts of the matter are these. Some time ago I stopped scanning the list submissions, they were all spam. So the list is not being moderated by me anymore. My employer has not shown a willingness to send me to IETF meetings, and I have not attended a meeting in many years. So my attention has shifted away from SNMP. Were I to become active again, it would be better for me to have some support from my employer. We have conducted no actual business on the IFMib list in years. The last technical discussion I have in my personal notes was Dec 8 2003. The working group was officially closed on Sept 3, 2003. ted At 02:11 AM 8/26/2007, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: >The ifmib email lists tops a list of concluded WG lists with very long >moderation queues. The IETF chair is asking whether we still find this >list useful and should continue to be maintained or rather shut it down. >I do not know whether Ted Brunner is still looking at it, we may need to >find a new moderator if he is not. Although ifmib was belonging to the >Internet Area, many of the participants are probably involved with OPS >and MIB work. > >Opinions? > >Dan Ted Brunner tbrunner@Omneon.com Omneon Video Networks www.Omneon.com 15268 Greenbrier Pkwy +1 (503) 372-7320 Beaverton OR 97006 +1 (503) 533-5811 fax _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 28 03:47:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPvnQ-0000Ae-Nk; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:47:32 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IPvnP-00006x-Tt for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:47:31 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPvnH-00084I-4S; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:47:23 -0400 Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.71.100]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IPvnG-0000Gq-KH; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:47:23 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.14]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 28 Aug 2007 03:47:19 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,315,1183348800"; d="scan'208"; a="51732314:sNHT8313276" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:46:40 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ifmib mail list Thread-Index: AcfpBggJkzmaCNZ+SUCVQcYY7qOs2QAQPQyg References: From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "ted brunner" , , , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: Subject: [OPS-AREA] RE: ifmib mail list X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Thanks, Ted. I hope to see you back in the IETF sometime.=20 My understanding is that ifmib is not active for a while and nobody opposes it being shut down.=20 I will confirm this to the Internet ADs who own it, so that it can be shut down.=20 I will send a message to ifmib asking that further issues be brought to ietfmibs.=20 Dan =20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ted brunner [mailto:tbrunner@omneon.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:56 AM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan); ops-area@ietf.org;=20 > ietfmibs@ietf.org; mib-doctors@ietf.org > Cc: tbrunner@omneon.com > Subject: Re: ifmib mail list >=20 > Dan- >=20 > The sad facts of the matter are these. > Some time ago I stopped scanning the list submissions, they=20 > were all spam. > So the list is not being moderated by me anymore. > My employer has not shown a willingness to send me to IETF=20 > meetings, and I have not attended a meeting in many years. > So my attention has shifted away from SNMP. > Were I to become active again, it would be better for me to=20 > have some support from my employer. >=20 > We have conducted no actual business on the IFMib list in years. > The last technical discussion I have in my personal notes was=20 > Dec 8 2003. > The working group was officially closed on Sept 3, 2003. >=20 > ted >=20 >=20 > At 02:11 AM 8/26/2007, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: >=20 > >The ifmib email lists tops a list of concluded WG lists with=20 > very long=20 > >moderation queues. The IETF chair is asking whether we still=20 > find this=20 > >list useful and should continue to be maintained or rather=20 > shut it down. > >I do not know whether Ted Brunner is still looking at it, we=20 > may need=20 > >to find a new moderator if he is not. Although ifmib was=20 > belonging to=20 > >the Internet Area, many of the participants are probably=20 > involved with=20 > >OPS and MIB work. > > > >Opinions? > > > >Dan >=20 >=20 > Ted Brunner tbrunner@Omneon.com > Omneon Video Networks www.Omneon.com > 15268 Greenbrier Pkwy +1 (503) 372-7320 > Beaverton OR 97006 +1 (503) 533-5811 fax >=20 _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 28 15:50:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ75J-00085d-3m; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:50:45 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ75G-00084r-IT for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:50:42 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ75G-00084g-62; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:50:42 -0400 Received: from diotima.switch.ch ([130.59.4.87]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ75F-0005mV-Iy; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:50:42 -0400 Received: (from leinen@localhost) by diotima.switch.ch (8.14.0+Sun/8.14.0) id l7SJoZwg002514; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:50:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: diotima.switch.ch: leinen set sender to simon.leinen@switch.ch using -f From: Simon Leinen To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" Subject: Re: [OPS-AREA] Request for input from operators - identification of interfaces In-Reply-To: (Dan Romascanu's message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:00 +0200") References: X-Face: 1Nk*r=:$IBBb8|TyRB'2WSY6u:BzMO7N)#id#-4_}MsU5?vTI?dez|JiutW4sKBLjp.l7, F 7QOld^hORRtpCUj)!cP]gtK_SyK5FW(+o"!or:v^C^]OxX^3+IPd\z, @ttmwYVO7l`6OXXYR` Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:50:35 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.96 (usg-unix-v) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, midcom@ietf.org, dbharrington@comcast.net, ops-area@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Romascanu, Dan (Dan) writes: > How do you, network operators, prefer interfaces be identified? > - Is ifIndex the preferred choice even though the indices can change on > reboot? IfIndex used to be all we had (until management tools added the logic to map different types of identifiers). They have become more manageable since vendors started to make them persistent over reboots. > - Is ifName a better choice for identifying interfaces in rules, > since it is set by the device and remains fairly stable across > reboots and is guaranteed to be unique? IfName is cool. We usually refer to interfaces by (abbreviated) ifName when we talk about them. Our DNS interface naming scheme is also based on ifName - I believe this is not uncommon, although not predominant either. So that's a natural way to name interfaces. > - is ifAlias a better choice, since it can be set by operators, > although it is not guaranteed to be unique? We use ifAlias to include comments, and change them from time to time. I wouldn't like to use them as stable identifiers, although substrings (tags) inside ifAlias could be used that way. In general, I'm not sure the MIDCOM MIB designers should jump through hoops to make the naming scheme maximally operator-friendly. Instead, management applications will allow interfaces to be specified in appropriate ways (maybe based on configured addresses or other parameters) and map those to appropriate low-level identifiers (node identifier, ifIndex, etc.). -- Simon. _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 28 15:59:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7DH-0007HN-83; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:58:59 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7DG-0007H6-59 for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:58:58 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7DF-0007Gy-Ro; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:58:57 -0400 Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7DE-0007qA-Fk; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:58:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (demetrius.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F318C8241D; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:58:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17162-02-3; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:58:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A0382475; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:58:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4A54031177B; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:58:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:58:37 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Simon Leinen Subject: Re: [OPS-AREA] Request for input from operators - identification of interfaces Message-ID: <20070828195837.GC12461@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Simon Leinen , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, midcom@ietf.org, dbharrington@comcast.net, ops-area@ietf.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new 2.3.3 (20050822) at jacobs-university.de X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, ops-area@ietf.org, midcom@ietf.org, dbharrington@comcast.net X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Aug 28, 2007 at 09:50:35PM +0200, Simon Leinen wrote: > In general, I'm not sure the MIDCOM MIB designers should jump through > hoops to make the naming scheme maximally operator-friendly. Instead, > management applications will allow interfaces to be specified in > appropriate ways (maybe based on configured addresses or other > parameters) and map those to appropriate low-level identifiers (node > identifier, ifIndex, etc.). Well, the problem is that you install policies on devices where the policies are applied to interfaces identified by ifIndex. Once ifIndex changes, you potentially apply the wrong policy without any management application involved that can fix that (unless you assume that you have this super smart monitor that detects all such changes and takes immediate corrective action). Note, I am not pushing for rewriting the MIDCOM MIB. Documenting the issue should be good enough in this particular case. I was more interested to hear from operators what they like to use as "natural" interface identifiers. You said ifName - any other operators here to second that or to question that? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 29 00:49:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQFUw-0005Ne-Li; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:49:46 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IQFUv-0005NP-Sc for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:49:45 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQFUv-0005NG-F2; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:49:45 -0400 Received: from dog.tcb.net ([64.78.150.133]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQFUu-00041A-72; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:49:45 -0400 Received: by dog.tcb.net (Postfix, from userid 0) id 9C0442686CD; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:49:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (VDSL-151-118-145-60.DNVR.QWEST.NET [151.118.145.60]) (authenticated-user smtp) (TLSv1/SSLv3 AES128-SHA 128/128) by dog.tcb.net with SMTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from danny@tcb.net) X-Avenger: version=0.7.8; receiver=dog.tcb.net; client-ip=151.118.145.60; client-port=8095; syn-fingerprint=65535:56:1:64:M1460,N,W0,N,N,T,S MacOS 10.4.8; data-bytes=0 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <92A5A250-BF1F-45B6-ADA9-CDE80BF4088A@tcb.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Danny McPherson Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:49:26 -0600 To: grow@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ops-area@ietf.org Subject: [OPS-AREA] Re: [GROW] WG Chairs X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org On Jun 20, 2007, at 10:54 AM, Dean Anderson wrote: > Can you explain how these chairs were selected? > > As far as I can tell, they have not participated in the GROW WG, going > back more than 2 years. Dean, Doesn't participating in the IETF include reading mailing lists and proceedings, along with a slew of other things? How did you determine they've not been doing this? Also, I've personally seen both Peter and Chris in GROW WG meetings, as well as discussions surrounding GROW work items. > Why not select someone who participates in the working group to be the > chairs? That all depends on your definition of participation. -danny _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area From ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 29 04:46:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQJBt-0007mu-QY; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:46:21 -0400 Received: from ops-area by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IQJBs-0007mk-0L for ops-area-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:46:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQJBr-0007mY-MK; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:46:19 -0400 Received: from alpha.dante.org.uk ([193.63.211.19] helo=mail.dante.org.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQJBp-0000ez-Sx; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:46:19 -0400 Received: from [193.63.211.120] by mail.dante.org.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQJBn-0001wX-Sa; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:46:15 +0100 Message-ID: <46D53253.6020207@dante.org.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:46:11 +0100 From: Toby Rodwell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simon Leinen , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, midcom@ietf.org, dbharrington@comcast.net, ops-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPS-AREA] Request for input from operators - identification of interfaces References: <20070828195837.GC12461@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20070828195837.GC12461@elstar.local> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: X-BeenThere: ops-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: OPS Area e-mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ops-area-bounces@ietf.org Hi Juergen/all, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: ... I was more > interested to hear from operators what they like to use as "natural" > interface identifiers. You said ifName - any other operators here to > second that or to question that? > > /js I second IfName. I wouldn't claim to be an expert on the full range of equipment vendors but it would certainly be the best option for Cisco and Juniper. regards Toby -- ______________________________________________________________________ Toby Rodwell Network Engineer DANTE - www.dante.net Tel: +44 (0)1223 371 300 Fax: +44 (0)1223 371 371 Email: toby.rodwell@dante.org.uk PGP Key ID: 0xB864694E City House, 126-130 Hills Road Cambridge CB2 1PQ UK _____________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area