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header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WhmfE6qDvB9V for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 06:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ACCC126557 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 06:12:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=68830; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1491570741; x=1492780341; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=YzQLCwYournaZkHx9BtBbcttVn7eDL4T1ylaVxl3o4k=; b=A1+rEql1x9rK/JWqAPgzBb8fdyn8jsyHLu9ut/z3fGNBA/WPoRynzA9s KV1Zj4htwAIfgzHod3eP2ekqUtqT6c/mJL9fWElElp8tQsupmb59RhJyz HI49SA8ZDDPCD2SmNJ4yNYmU0b6ucVl+b1bBg+dCyF4QfPhERbKb6S9Y9 8=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CgAQAmj+dY/xbLJq1SAQkTAQEEAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEHAQEBAQGCboFGMVqNd3OQUJVXgg8qgkKDNgKEFRgBAgEBAQEBAQF?= =?us-ascii?q?rKIUVAQEBAQIBGgEIWwsJAg4EBhULAQkCAkkOBgEMBAQBAYoDCA6MG51dgiYri?= =?us-ascii?q?kgBAQEBAQEBAwEBAQEBAQEBAQEPD4hTgWIBgQiELgEDDjAlgkeCXwEEiR0Shju?= =?us-ascii?q?BToRnhlmDfYINdoMriC2BflWEWYM3I4Y6iGOLHB84PkclFggYFUGEVgUdgWU+A?= =?us-ascii?q?zIBhnoCJAIFghABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,165,1488844800"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="693539728" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 07 Apr 2017 13:12:18 +0000 Received: from [10.61.83.100] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4965.cisco.com [10.61.83.100]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v37DCHPI028903; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 13:12:18 GMT To: Kent Watsen , "opsawg@ietf.org" References: <6F181AF6-CE51-4EFE-8CB9-F7576530EA61@juniper.net> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <1397b4ae-253e-c2f2-0d4d-a76674d8ddf1@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 15:12:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6F181AF6-CE51-4EFE-8CB9-F7576530EA61@juniper.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="948FWfH5iKGal5W0w4Ui2kBxnciHAak2t" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG LC for draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-05 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 13:12:32 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --948FWfH5iKGal5W0w4Ui2kBxnciHAak2t Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NMTXPXmdVlodmCgsqBobT0K5jGHo9krRW"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Kent Watsen , "opsawg@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1397b4ae-253e-c2f2-0d4d-a76674d8ddf1@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG LC for draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-05 References: <6F181AF6-CE51-4EFE-8CB9-F7576530EA61@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <6F181AF6-CE51-4EFE-8CB9-F7576530EA61@juniper.net> --NMTXPXmdVlodmCgsqBobT0K5jGHo9krRW Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1609BF3F101A47B748129755" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1609BF3F101A47B748129755 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kent, Thanks very much for taking the time to review the draft. Based on your review, unless the WG objects, I'll include some changes as discussed bel= ow. On 4/7/17 3:37 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi, > > =20 > > First off, I think that this is an interesting and useful idea.=20 > However, I have > > found some issues that I'd like to discuss. > > =20 > > First, I think that this draft unnecessarily conflates the MUD file > itself with > > mechanisms for how a device might identify its model type and/or where > > its MUD file can be accessed. The former is fairly innocuous (though > I raise > > issues with it below), whereas the latter raises numerous security > concerns > > that I think need to be addressed before this draft can move forward > as it > > is. But rather than holding the draft back indefinitely, I'd rather > these two > > aspects be separated, enabling the MUD file itself to progress quickly,= > > which would be a boon for all devices, including the "legacy" devices > > raised by Tim Polk.=20 > Agreed. > =20 > > As for the parts that concern me, part of it goes to how the device > > identifies itself, but most of it goes to how the network consumes the > > MUD file. As mud-net-lifecycle-00 indicates, best results are had when= > > the access is enforced on the port the device is connected to that, > for IoT > > devices, will most likely be a WAP. While not currently mandated by t= he > > architecture, assuming this would greatly reduce the need for the devic= e > > to be able to prove its identity (really just its model number needs to= be > > proved) as then the ability for the MitM/DoS attack I raised at the mic= > > during the OPSAWG session. With the need for secure proof of identity > > off the table, even OS-fingerprinting techniques might be used to ident= ity > > the device's model (rather than use a DHCP option or an LLDP extension)= , > > which could again be a way to gracefully support legacy devices. > I don't see anything wrong with doing OS-fingerprinting, and it seems a good idea to catch liars. I can add some text along these lines if you would like. > =20 > > But for MUD to make a real difference, the enforcement point > > should be configured to assert MUD-based enforcement (unless it's been > > whitelisted). That is, an enforcement point configured this way would > > NOT provide any access by default (read: fail close). > This is a local policy choice, and it may be subtle. "fail close' might involve limited access to certain onboarding functions, for instance.=20 Even without MUD one would assume in today's age that this is the case. > Please note that > > here I'm only referring to L2/L3 access, not anything at the L4-level, > such > > as provided by a device joining a "domain" as part of a bootstrapping > > protocol (e.g., brski). So, this port-level enforcement would actually= be > > employed before the bootstrapping protocol and, as a consequence of > > us wanting to enable IoT devices to securely bootstrap, it means that a= ll > > IoT device MUD files would need to outbound tcp/443 access, even if > > the device has no need to initiate HTTPS connections in normal operatio= n. > > Is this what we want? > Continuing from my comment above, the order of operation is closer to "sandbox, bootstrap (perhaps with ANIMA), then implement specific policies with more access". This doesn't require that all MUD files include outbound 443, nor do we want that to be the case. > =20 > > Of course, the enforcement point could also be a few hops away from > > the device (e.g., the WAN egress point), or even on the device itself > > (e.g. a host-based firewall), but neither of these deployment scenarios= > > are wholly satisfactory. =20 > In general I agree that the policy should be implemented as close to the device as possible. But (a) that might not be possible in some deployments and (b) that might not be the only place you want to apply the policy. The draft quite intentionally leaves WHERE to implement the access controls precisely so that the concept can stretch to a variety of scenarios. I think this is an important component to preserve.=20 We'll probably want to stretch other aspects of MUD as well, but more around what sort of control knobs manufacturers will want. > > Section 2: > > - Tree diagram notation explanation missing. > > See > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-12#section-4.3= =2E > > - the tree diagram shows that all the fields are optional, is this > on purpose? > Pretty much. What would you want to be mandatory? > =20 > > Section 3.1: > > - s/the last time the MUD file was updated/when the MUD file was > generated/ > Right. > > =20 > > Section 3.2: > > - I don't really understand the point of this field > > - I definitely don't understand "Because it should not be necessary > to resign > > a MUD file when a new one is released" - especially when the field > regards > > the *previous* mud file > > - I also have an issue with the detached signature files (see my > comments on > > Section 12) > The idea was to be able to point to a chain of MUD files so that people could review changes. However, I wonder if the mechanism is really all that useful. Furthermore, I would suggest that we drop it and add it back later if people want it. > =20 > > Sections 3.3: > > - others have mentioned this already > > =20 > > Section 3.4 > > - I'm not entirely sure why this field is here, but I object to the > MUD file > > pointing to a BRSKI-specific component. Does this mean we can/shou= ld > > litter the file with other bootstrapping protocol data also? - > why stop at > > bootstrapping protocols, maybe other data would be useful too?=20 > Is the > > device supposed to consume this field (how? - since it's not > guaranteed > > devices even get the MUD file) or are 3rd-party switches (i.e., wit= h > > embedded MUD Controller) supposed to know how to process such > > fields? > I think this gets bundled to the concept of how the MASA server is identified in the bootstrapping process. The simplest mechanism is to have another extension in the certificate. And this ties to our discussion in the room as to what sort of URL should be in a cert at all. If the ANIMA folk want this out, then I think we should remove it. If the ANIMA folk want it in, then let's have it in. The nice thing of it being there is that the bootstrap server can be changed. > =20 > > Section 3.5 > > - so, if a device is no longer supported, will the manufacturer conti= nue > > to publish MUD files for it? Do MUD files ever expire? Is there > a replay- > > attack here? > The intent is to indicate that a file will no longer be updated. I think that's what the text states. Is it unclear? In addition, it's nice for administrators to easily be able to spot devices where the manufacturer claims they are not supported. In this sense it is a policy classifier. MUD files do NOT expire. I *think* the attack you are concerned about is someone promulgating an update that indicates the file is no longer supported.=20 > > =20 > > Section 3.6 > > - unclear how this field would be used > > - I know that it says that it's not for programmatic consumption, but= > > shouldn't there be a field that contains something like a model-num= ber > > so that the MUD Controller knows it got the right MUD file, and not= a > > file for another device? [this is different than the acl 'model' > field below] > > - acronyms should be avoided: s/systeminfo/system-information/ > We agreed in the meeting to change this to change this to a URL pointing to a description (perhaps internationalized) of the device described in the MUD file. > =20 > > Section 3.8 > > - the description in unclear, perhaps break into two sentences? > > - I think the idea is to create an ACL that allows the device to > > connect to its manufacturer, but why wouldn=E2=80=99t a MUD > > file use a something more generic like your dst-dnsname? > The system might not HAVE a dst-dnsname. Think of a bunch of lightbulbs. They're not going to register in DNS. And even if there were names assigned, they might not be aware of them. Also, this intended for an entire class of devices. There could be quite a lot of them. How would you propose to this clarify this point? > =20 > > Section 3.9 > > - I don't understand this description either, but I see now from that= it > > has something to do with the 'authority' hostname/FQDN component > > in the URL described in Section 5. > > - I get the impression that you're trying to introduce some mechanism= > > whereby the manufacturer can delegate the MUD file signing ability > > to another entity.=20 > > - Maybe not, but it does make me question how a MUD Controller is > > sure that its signer of the MUD File is actually authorized to > sign the > > MUD file? > > - Peeking ahead to Section 12.2 doesn't help much here (more on that > later) > This is nothing more than a shortcut for "manufacturer" where the authority section is exactly the same as that of the device associated with a given MUD URL. So, if I output https://eliot.example.com/...foo as my MUD-URL, same-manufacturer would be any device that output a MUD URL beginning with eliot.example.com. > > =20 > > Section 3.11 > > - this field isn't clear > > - how is this field in the matches expression supposed to be evaluate= d? > I think we could use a statement about intent here. The intent is that "local-networks" match any system residing on a network within the same administrative scope. You could imagine it being defined to be a list of networks used by an enterprise. How might I word this better? > =20 > > Section 3.12 > > - this field isn't clear > > - why would a [MUD] controller register a URI to an NMS? > > - NMS doesn't show up in Figure 1 or Terminology... > Changed NMS to mud controller. The intent is for controllers to identify themselves for the ease of the network administrator. We have not yet defined a mechanism to do that in an automated fashion, but the comment foreshadows that it is useful. > > =20 > > Section 3.13 > > - also unclear > > =20 > > Section 4 > > - This section needs to be greatly expanded to include everything fro= m > > the MUD Controller being told to obtain a MUD file, to actually > obtaining > > the MUD file, to verifying the MUD file, and finally actualizing > the MUD file. > I think you would like an order of operations, and I think that's fair.=20 Will add. > =20 > > Section 5 > > - I'm generally unclear about the 'authority' field and how it's supp= ose > > to be used. E.g., is it required that the certificate the signs > the MUD > > file has the same authority value in its commonName or dnsName > > fields? - so then TLS server cert is also the MUDfile signer cert?= > Keep in mind, that the MUD controller can process the URL using standard HTTP semantics. Authority is used in that sense. The intent at this point is not to require matching of common name to authority (we had something like that and removed it). > - How is the 'mud-rev' field supposed to work in practice. Let's say= I > > by a new lightbulb and the manufacturer decides to use the then > > v2 revision of the MUD file format, but my switch/MUDcontroller > > is running older software and doesn=E2=80=99t know how to parse the = new > > v2 fields, what does it do? > > - 'extras' needs to be described, even if just to say it=E2=80=99s a = placeholder > > =20 > It's up to future versions of MUD to decide appropriate backward compatibility mechanisms. Let's say that all of YANG gets refactored. v2 of MUD would take that into account, and probably require that manufacturers maintain a v1 version of the file as well. The mechanisms can get infinitely complex or remain relatively simple or something in between. We needn't answer that question today. > Section 6 > > - should remove chairs for YANG 'contact' listing > > - s/Editor/Author/ in YANG 'contact' listing > Wilco. > - should use rc:yang-data to declare a file artifact > Can you send me something more specific out of band? > > =20 > > Section 7.3 > > - should remove chairs for YANG 'contact' listing > > - s/Editor/Author/ in YANG 'contact' listing > Wilco. > > =20 > > Skipping Sections 8, 9 > > =20 > > Section 10 > > - okay, but as mentioned at the mic, putting a URL into the IDevID > > cert is problematic if the URL needs to change based on what versio= n > > of firmware/software is loaded on the device. > I'll make sure this is covered. > - note that many times implementations that support IDevID also > > support LDevID, would deployments then be required to put this > > extension into their LDevID certs? > There are two non-mutually-exclusive mechanisms. Copy the MUD URL into the LDevID or keep a table in the AAA server that associates a MUD URL with a given identity. > - presumably this use of the DevID cert for TEAP (as opposed to either > > the brski or zerotouch drafts, which both also use IDevID certs). = I'm > > very concerned that we might have a chicken/egg problem here. > > =20 > > Skipping Section 11 > > =20 > > Section 12 > > - why do you have an external detached signature? since the signature= > > is always required and MUST be verified, I'd expect that the MUD fi= le > > would always be a signed CMS... > It's a matter of existing common tooling and readability. I'm happy to change but someone has to point to tooling that doesn't wreck readability= =2E > - it says that new signers be validated, but what does that mean? > > - the verification part is not strong enough with regards to the > verifier > > 1) knowing it's using the right trust anchor, 2) knowing that it > has the > > right MUD file for the device, 3) knowing that the MUD file is not > expired, > > 4) verifying the PKI that signed the MUD file hasn't been revoked, > etc. > I think some of this should be covered in the order of operations to be added. There are two aspects of validation. Verifying that the signature matches the file and validating the signer in some way. We're not specifying the details of the latter at this time. > > =20 > > Section 13 > > - already I mentioned concerns around how IETF revisions of the MUD fil= e > > might be deployed > > - but here is suggests that vendors could create their own augmentati= ons > > of the YANG file, how are 3rd-party MUD Controllers supposed to han= dle > > that? Should it be explicitly forbidden? > As was discussed, we'll add a new container in the front to allow for extensibility and validation. > > =20 > > Section 14 > > - all [IoT] devices presumably bootstrap, therefore (per > brski/zerotouch) > > all these devices need to access outbound HTTPS. Would this go > into the > > device's MUD file even though the device has no on-going need to > > initiate outbound HTTPS? > See above. You shouldn't need to add it into the file. Also just a note- with BrSKI there is no need for the device to have end to end connectivity with the manufacturer's MASA server. That is what the registrar is for. > > - security considerations for yang modules not following > guidelines. See > > =20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-12#section-4.7= =2E > I'll take a look. > > =20 > > Section 15 > > - YANG modules are supposed to be registered > > -XML namespaces are supposed to be registered > Can you point me at the correct registry names? > =20 > > Other: > > - the footer on every page says "MUD YANG Model" but this draft is > > so much more! > Fixed. > - parroting the comment made previously, I'd prefer this draft be > broken > > up into a draft that describes the MUD file artifact that then > other draft(s) > > that describe how devices are identified and MUD files are obtain= ed. > We started there and were told to collapse. That having been said, I'm happy to clarify the architectural components, as I mentioned to Tim. Eliot > > =20 > --------------1609BF3F101A47B748129755 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent,

Thanks very much for taking the time to review the draft.=C2=A0 Ba= sed on your review, unless the WG objects, I'll include some changes as discussed below.


On 4/7/17 3:37 AM, Kent Watsen wrote:<= br>

Hi,

=C2= =A0

First off, I think that this is an interesting and useful idea.=C2=A0= However, I have

found some issues that I'd like to discuss.

=C2= =A0

First,= I think that this draft unnecessarily conflates the MUD file itself with

mechan= isms for how a device might identify its model type and/or where

its MU= D file can be accessed.=C2=A0 The former is fairly innocuous (though I raise

issues= with it below), whereas the latter raises numerous security concerns

that I= think need to be addressed before this draft can move forward as it

is.=C2= =A0 But rather than holding the draft back indefinitely, I'd rather these two

aspect= s be separated, enabling the MUD file itself to progress quickly,

which would be a boon for all devices, including the "legacy" devices

raised= by Tim Polk.=C2=A0


Agreed.

=C2= =A0

As for= the parts that concern me, part of it goes to how the device<= o:p>

identi= fies itself, but most of it goes to how the network consumes the

MUD file.=C2=A0 As mud-net-lifecycle-00 indicates, best results a= re had when

the access is enforced on the port the device is connected to that, for IoT

device= s, will most likely be a WAP.=C2=A0 =C2=A0While not currently ma= ndated by the

archit= ecture, assuming this would greatly reduce the need for the device

to be able to prove its identity (really just its model number needs to be

proved= ) as then the ability for the MitM/DoS attack I raised at the mic

during= the OPSAWG session.=C2=A0 With the need for secure proof of identity

off th= e table, even OS-fingerprinting techniques might be used to identity

the device's model (rather than use a DHCP option or an LLDP extension),

which could again be a way to gracefully support legacy devices.


I don't see anything wrong with doing OS-fingerprinting, and it seems a good idea to catch liars.=C2=A0 I can add some text along the= se lines if you would like.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

But fo= r MUD to make a real difference, the enforcement point

should= be configured to assert MUD-based enforcement (unless it's been<= o:p>

whitel= isted).=C2=A0 That is, an enforcement point configured this way would<= /o:p>

NOT provide any access by default (read: fail close).


This is a local policy choice, and it may be subtle.=C2=A0 "fail clos= e' might involve limited access to certain onboarding functions, for instance.=C2=A0 Even without MUD one would assume in today's age that= this is the case.

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Please note that

here I= 'm only referring to L2/L3 access, not anything at the L4-level, such

as provided by a device joining a "domain" as part of a bootstrapping

protoc= ol (e.g., brski).=C2=A0 So, this port-level enforcement would actually be

employ= ed before the bootstrapping protocol and, as a consequence of

us wanting to enable IoT devices to securely bootstrap, it means that all

IoT device MUD files would need to outbound tcp/443 access, even if

the device has no need to initiate HTTPS connections in normal operation.

Is thi= s what we want?


Continuing from my comment above, the order of operation is closer to "sandbox, bootstrap (perhaps with ANIMA), then implement specific policies with more access".=C2=A0 This doesn't require that all MUD f= iles include outbound 443, nor do we want that to be the case.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Of course, the enforcement point could also be a few hops away from

the device (e.g., the WAN egress point), or even on the device itself

(e.g. = a host-based firewall), but neither of these deployment scenarios

are wholly satisfactory.=C2=A0=C2=A0

In general I agree that the policy should be implemented as close to the device as possible.=C2=A0 But (a) that might not be possible in s= ome deployments and (b) that might not be the only place you want to apply the policy.=C2=A0 The draft quite intentionally leaves WHERE to= implement the access controls precisely so that the concept can stretch to a variety of scenarios.=C2=A0 I think this is an important= component to preserve.=C2=A0 We'll probably want to stretch other asp= ects of MUD as well, but more around what sort of control knobs manufacturers will want.

Sectio= n 2:

=C2=A0= - Tree diagram notation explanation missing.

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 See https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-12#section-4.3.

=C2=A0= - the tree diagram shows that all the fields are optional, is this on purpose?


Pretty much.=C2=A0 What would you want to be mandatory?

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.1:

=C2=A0= - s/the last time the MUD file was updated/when the MUD file was generated/

Right.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.2:

=C2=A0= - I don't really understand the point of this field

=C2=A0= - I definitely don't understand "Because it should not be necessary to resign

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0a MUD file when a new one is released" - especially when the field regards

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 the *previous* mud file

=C2=A0= - I also have an issue with the detached signature files (see my comments on

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 12)


The idea was to be able to point to a chain of MUD files so that people could review changes.=C2=A0 However, I wonder if the mechanism= is really all that useful.=C2=A0 Furthermore, I would suggest that we dr= op it and add it back later if people want it.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= ns 3.3:

=C2=A0= - others have mentioned this already

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.4

=C2=A0= - I'm not entirely sure why this field is here, but I object to the MUD file

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 pointing to a BRSKI-specific component.=C2=A0 Does this mean = we can/should

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 litter the file with other bootstrapping protocol data also?=C2=A0 - why stop at

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 bootstrapping protocols, maybe other data would be useful too?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Is the

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 device supposed to consume this field (how? - since it's not guaranteed

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 devices even get the MUD file) or are 3rd-party switches (i.e., with

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 embedded MUD Controller) supposed to know how to process such

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 fields?


I think this gets bundled to the concept of how the MASA server is identified in the bootstrapping process.=C2=A0 The simplest mechanism= is to have another extension in the certificate.=C2=A0 And this ties to = our discussion in the room as to what sort of URL should be in a cert at all.=C2=A0 If the ANIMA folk want this out, then I think we should re= move it.=C2=A0 If the ANIMA folk want it in, then let's have it in.=C2=A0 = The nice thing of it being there is that the bootstrap server can be changed.<= br>

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.5

=C2=A0= - so, if a device is no longer supported, will the manufacturer continue

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0to publish MUD files for it?=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do MUD files ever expir= e?=C2=A0=C2=A0 Is there a replay-

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 attack here?


The intent is to indicate that a file will no longer be updated.=C2=A0= I think that's what the text states.=C2=A0 Is it unclear?=C2=A0 In addi= tion, it's nice for administrators to easily be able to spot devices where the manufacturer claims they are not supported.=C2=A0 In this sense i= t is a policy classifier.

MUD files do NOT expire.=C2=A0 I *think* the attack you are concerned= about is someone promulgating an update that indicates the file is no longer supported.=C2=A0

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.6

=C2=A0= - unclear how this field would be used

=C2=A0= - I know that it says that it's not for programmatic consumption, but

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0shouldn't there be a field that contains something like a model-number<= o:p>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0so that the MUD Controller knows it got the right MUD file, and not a

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0file for another device? =C2=A0=C2=A0[this is different than the a= cl 'model' field below]

=C2=A0= - acronyms should be avoided: s/systeminfo/system-information/<= /span>


We agreed in the meeting to change this to change this to a URL pointing to a description (perhaps internationalized) of the device described in the MUD file.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.8

=C2=A0= - the description in unclear, perhaps break into two sentences?

=C2=A0= - I think the idea is to create an ACL that allows the device to

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0connect to its manufacturer, but why wouldn=E2=80=99t a MUD

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 file use a something more generic like your dst-dnsname?


The system might not HAVE a dst-dnsname.=C2=A0 Think of a bunch of lightbulbs.=C2=A0 They're not going to register in DNS.=C2=A0 And eve= n if there were names assigned, they might not be aware of them.=C2=A0 Als= o, this intended for an entire class of devices.=C2=A0 There could be qu= ite a lot of them.=C2=A0 How would you propose to this clarify this point= ?

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.9

=C2=A0= - I don't understand this description either, but I see now from that it

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 has something to do with the 'authority' hostname/FQDN component<= o:p>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0in the URL described in Section 5.

=C2=A0= - I get the impression that you're trying to introduce some mechanism

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 whereby the manufacturer can delegate the MUD file signing ability

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 to another entity.=C2=A0

=C2=A0= =C2=A0- Maybe not, but it does make me question how a MUD Controller is

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 sure that its signer of the MUD File is actually authorized to sign the

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 MUD file?

=C2=A0= - Peeking ahead to Section 12.2 doesn't help much here (more on that later)


This is nothing more than a shortcut=C2=A0 for "manufacturer" where t= he authority section is exactly the same as that of the device associated with a given MUD URL.=C2=A0 So, if I output https://eliot.example.com/...foo as my MUD-URL, same-manufa= cturer would be any device that output a MUD URL beginning with eliot.example.com.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.11

=C2=A0= - this field isn't clear

=C2=A0= - how is this field in the matches expression supposed to be evaluated?


I think we could use a statement about intent here.=C2=A0 The intent = is that "local-networks" match any system residing on a network within the same administrative scope.=C2=A0 You could imagine it being defin= ed to be a list of networks used by an enterprise.=C2=A0 How might I wor= d this better?

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.12

=C2=A0= - this field isn't clear

=C2=A0= - why would a [MUD] controller register a URI to an NMS?=

=C2=A0= - NMS doesn't show up in Figure 1 or Terminology...


Changed NMS to mud controller.=C2=A0 The intent is for controllers to= identify themselves for the ease of the network administrator.=C2=A0 = We have not yet defined a mechanism to do that in an automated fashion, but the comment foreshadows that it is useful.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 3.13

=C2=A0= - also unclear

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 4

=C2=A0= - This section needs to be greatly expanded to include everything from

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 the MUD Controller being told to obtain a MUD file, to actually obtaining

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 the MUD file, to verifying the MUD file, and finally actualizing the MUD file.


I think you would like an order of operations, and I think that's fair.=C2=A0 Will add.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 5

=C2=A0= - I'm generally unclear about the 'authority' field and how it's suppose

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 to be used.=C2=A0 E.g., is it required that the certificate the sig= ns the MUD

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 file has the same authority value in its commonName or dnsName

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 fields?=C2=A0 - so then TLS server cert is also the MUDfile signer cert?


Keep in mind, that the MUD controller can process the URL using standard HTTP semantics.=C2=A0 Authority is used in that sense.=C2=A0= The intent at this point is not to require matching of common name to authority (we had something like that and removed it).

<= /o:p>

=C2=A0= - How is the 'mud-rev' field supposed to work in practice.=C2=A0 Le= t's say I

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 by a new lightbulb and the manufacturer decides to use the then

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 v2 revision of the MUD file format, but my switch/MUDcontroller<= o:p>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0is running older software and doesn=E2=80=99t know how to parse = the new

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 v2 fields, what does it do?

=C2=A0= - 'extras' needs to be described, even if just to say it=E2=80=99= s a placeholder

=C2= =A0


It's up to future versions of MUD to decide appropriate backward compatibility mechanisms.=C2=A0 Let's say that all of YANG gets refactored. v2 of MUD would take that into account, and probably require that manufacturers maintain a v1 version of the file as well.=C2=A0 The mechanisms can get infinitely complex or remain relatively simple or something in between.=C2=A0 We needn't answer th= at question today.



Sectio= n 6

=C2=A0= - should remove chairs for YANG 'contact' listing

=C2=A0= - s/Editor/Author/ in YANG 'contact' listing


Wilco.

<= /o:p>

=C2=A0= - should use rc:yang-data to declare a file artifact

=

Can you send me something more specific out of band?

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 7.3

=C2=A0= - should remove chairs for YANG 'contact' listing

=C2=A0= - s/Editor/Author/ in YANG 'contact' listing


Wilco.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Skippi= ng Sections 8, 9

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 10

=C2=A0= - okay, but as mentioned at the mic, putting a URL into the IDevID

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 cert is problematic if the URL needs to change based on what version

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 of firmware/software is loaded on the device.


I'll make sure this is covered.

<= /o:p>

=C2=A0= - note that many times implementations that support IDevID also=

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 support LDevID, would deployments then be required to put this

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 extension into their LDevID certs?


There are two non-mutually-exclusive mechanisms.=C2=A0 Copy the MUD U= RL into the LDevID or keep a table in the AAA server that associates a MUD URL with a given identity.

<= /o:p>

- presumably this use of the DevID cert for TEAP (as opposed to either

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 the brski or zerotouch drafts, which both also use IDevID certs).=C2=A0 I'm

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 very concerned that we might have a chicken/egg problem here.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Skippi= ng Section 11

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 12

=C2=A0= - why do you have an external detached signature? since the signature

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 is always required and MUST be verified, I'd expect that the MUD file

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0would always be a signed CMS...


It's a matter of existing common tooling and readability.=C2=A0 I'm h= appy to change but someone has to point to tooling that doesn't wreck readability.

<= /o:p>

=C2=A0= - it says that new signers be validated, but what does that mean?

=C2=A0= =C2=A0- the verification part is not strong enough with regards to the verifier

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 1) knowing it's using the right trust anchor, 2) knowing that it has the

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 right MUD file for the device, 3) knowing that the MUD file is not expired,

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 4) verifying the PKI that signed the MUD file hasn't been revoked, etc.


I think some of this should be covered in the order of operations to be added.=C2=A0 There are two aspects of validation.=C2=A0 Verifying = that the signature matches the file and validating the signer in some way.=C2=A0= We're not specifying the details of the latter at this time.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 13

- alre= ady I mentioned concerns around how IETF revisions of the MUD file

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 might be deployed

=C2=A0= - but here is suggests that vendors could create their own augmentations

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 of the YANG file, how are 3rd-party MUD Controllers supposed to handle

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0that?=C2=A0 Should it be explicitly forbidden?


As was discussed, we'll add a new container in the front to allow for extensibility and validation.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 14

=C2=A0= - all [IoT] devices presumably bootstrap, therefore (per brski/zerotouch)

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 all these devices need to access outbound HTTPS.=C2=A0 Would this= go into the

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 device's MUD file even though the device has no on-going need to

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0initiate outbound HTTPS?


See above.=C2=A0 You shouldn't need to add it into the file.=C2=A0 Al= so just a note- with BrSKI there is no need for the device to have end to end connectivity with the manufacturer's MASA server.=C2=A0 That is what = the registrar is for.

<= /o:p>

=C2=A0= - security considerations for yang modules not following guidelines.=C2=A0 See

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-12#section-4.7.

I'll take a look.

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Sectio= n 15

=C2=A0= - YANG modules are supposed to be registered

=C2=A0= =C2=A0-XML namespaces are supposed to be registered


Can you point me at the correct registry names?

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0

Other:=

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 - the footer on every page says "MUD YANG Model" but this draft is<= o:p>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0so much more!


Fixed.

<= /o:p>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 - parroting the comment made previously, I'd prefer this draft be broken

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 up into a draft that describes the MUD file artifact that then other draft(s)

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that describe how devices are identified and MUD files are obtained.


We started there and were told to collapse.=C2=A0 That having been sa= id, I'm happy to clarify the architectural components, as I mentioned to Tim.

Eliot

<= /o:p>

=C2= =A0


--------------1609BF3F101A47B748129755-- --NMTXPXmdVlodmCgsqBobT0K5jGHo9krRW-- --948FWfH5iKGal5W0w4Ui2kBxnciHAak2t Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJY55AyAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozA7MIANF5NbLmoAht3lBgLuVNBV1+ 0X7/H6U0aI2DCWadC/ubwD85LiJCmhXTdV9v6Snw8MlnSdxMEcGPkz3NTfPLHIfd /C7/Xu5bECGQjMGkHCt2Af92DcZtIlsFcyRMbkqG7/VUHv0MDJcuJLasmgAf2t5K rSuokAmNwPslcGN2pbB2dFzxPR9/ePY2FgCMIkSzz038nhzcnCyopW/ueaOSfcF0 R7C2dXKv5lqZGTASqBhcWuHyZDFAWiBrIHUUqkuEYtbZAJKJyXA6DG3u37h5o37I fqnzwm9uH+MdD+ecZezW/afYpbPyTUKP2RcV56uMCjvFBc7mcs5gFZdGt2qhy1w= =stKH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --948FWfH5iKGal5W0w4Ui2kBxnciHAak2t-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 11:36:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09FC128C83 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DuO-59fFmFME for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7B91128CD5 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:36:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10443; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1492454168; x=1493663768; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=XEywcLnLiQHuqlqBbh2S7yMUMq/Q3qajrJC0sRbMsw8=; b=KJczRxMothcR/aAeVkNdhg8x4iaWNuBYNp1UFQV/6q8PgJapjARvrNES 1/eUrkaZmrfG70lUWj/9OCS8gpghnrnf0KYSyFGilEdc7nCe6eYSHTqi/ ulUUqcQ1hK9pM8utdMg9UpIdSG04OoMNx3rwDFL7NwevQsmsF+jdtXZ+Z w=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,215,1488844800"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="654052919" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Apr 2017 18:36:05 +0000 Received: from [10.61.219.135] ([10.61.219.135]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3HIa5Eo007239; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:36:05 GMT To: "Brian Weis (bew)" , "opsawg@ietf.org" References: From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 20:36:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2uMWnIMkS8D8s31AiRNAQJAuVQpRmoJju" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG LC for draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-05 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:36:11 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --2uMWnIMkS8D8s31AiRNAQJAuVQpRmoJju Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="o5pQtj6uUhltpfMojBS6lVtcS0uN5v0kp"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: "Brian Weis (bew)" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG LC for draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-05 References: In-Reply-To: --o5pQtj6uUhltpfMojBS6lVtcS0uN5v0kp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2826D24A1ECB6F7D9C4EAB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2826D24A1ECB6F7D9C4EAB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian, Apologies for the late response. On 3/31/17 6:40 AM, Brian Weis (bew) wrote: > I support advancing this document, and have the following minor comment= s. > > (1) Section 1.3. LLDP should be referenced at first use. The wording > at the beginning of Section 11 is nice: "IEEE802.1AB Link Layer > Discovery Protocol (LLDP) [IEEE8021AB]=E2=80=9D. Fixed. > > (2) Section 1.4. An interesting policy example is: > > Allow access to host controller.example.com > with QoS AF11 > > I don=E2=80=99t see how QoS markings are defined in MUD. If not, then =E2= =80=9C with > QoS AF11=E2=80=9D should be removed. Supporting QoS markings would be a= good > idea though. Removed for now. This might be something that we use an extension for. > > (3) Section 1.4 and beyond. The word =E2=80=9Cauthority=E2=80=9D, =E2=80= =9Cauthority > component=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cauthority section=E2=80=9D are all used to= mean the same thing, > but without further explanation as to what this means. The > inconsistency is confusing. But more importantly, it isn=E2=80=99t clea= r to > the reader in those earlier sections that each =E2=80=9Cauthority *" is= a > forward reference to the =E2=80=9Cauthority element=E2=80=9D in the URL= definition > (Section 5) It would clearer if these references said something like > =E2=80=9Cauthority element of the MUD URL=E2=80=9D. I normalized to "authority component" where appropriate, and added a brief definition. That component is a domain name, roughly speaking. > > (4) Section 1.6. Regarding this text: "In the case of IEEE 802.1X, the > switch would tunnel the URI via a certificate =E2=80=A6.=E2=80=9D. The= URI isn=E2=80=99t > really =E2=80=9Ctunneled=E2=80=9D. How about, "In the case of IEEE 802.= 1X, the switch > would present a certificate containing the URI =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D. Corrected. > > (5) Section 3.2. For "it should not be necessary to resign a MUD file > when a new one is released=E2=80=9D, I believe you mean that the MUD fi= le does > not not need to be signed again (=E2=80=9Cre-sign=E2=80=9D). Or do you = really mean > that the manufacturer will =E2=80=9Cresign=E2=80=9D (e.g., =E2=80=9Clea= ve=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cstand down=E2=80=9D) > the MUD file by moving it to the archival location? If so, this needs > to be clearer. Right. Re-sign. > > (6) Section 3.12. This section mentions "standard classes=E2=80=9D. The= re=E2=80=99s > should be a reference to what those classes would be, or more text > describing what is a =E2=80=9Cstandard class=E2=80=9D. Should there be = an IANA > registry of =E2=80=9Cstandard classes=E2=80=9D? Yes. I don't actually have a registry for this, and maybe we need one. Regards, Eliot > > --------------2826D24A1ECB6F7D9C4EAB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Brian,

Apologies for the late response.

On 3/31/17 6:40 AM, Brian Weis (bew) wrote:
I support advancing this document, and have the following minor comments.

(1) Section 1.3. LLDP should be referenced at first= use. The wording at the beginning of Section 11 is nice: "IEEE802.1AB Link Layer Discovery Protocol (LLDP) [IEEE8021AB]=E2= =80=9D.

Fixed.

(2) Section 1.4. An interesting policy example is:<= /div>

Allow acc= ess to host controller.example.com with QoS AF11



I don=E2=80=99t see how QoS markings are defined in= MUD. If not, then =E2=80=9C=C2=A0with QoS AF11=E2=80=9D should be removed. Sup= porting QoS markings would be a good idea though.

Removed for now.=C2=A0 This might be something that we use an extensi= on for.


(3) Section 1.4 and beyond. The word =E2=80=9Caut= hority=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cauthority component=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cauthority secti= on=E2=80=9D are all used to mean the same thing, but without further explanation as to what this means. The inconsistency is confusing. But more importantly, it isn=E2=80=99t clear to the reader in those earl= ier sections that each =E2=80=9Cauthority *" is a forward reference= to the =E2=80=9Cauthority element=E2=80=9D in the URL definition (Sect= ion 5)=C2=A0 It would clearer if these references said something like =E2=80=9Cauthority element of the MUD URL=E2=80=9D.
I normalized to "authority component" where appropriate, and added a brief definition.=C2=A0 That component is a domain name, roughly speaking.


(4) Section 1.6. Regarding this text: "In the case of IEEE 802.1X, the switch would tunnel the URI via a certificate =E2=80=A6.=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0The URI isn=E2=80=99t real= ly =E2=80=9Ctunneled=E2=80=9D. How about, "In the case of IEEE 802.1X, the switch would present a certificate containing the URI =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D.

Corrected.

(5) Section 3.2. For "it should not be necessary to= resign a MUD file when a new one is released=E2=80=9D, I believe = you mean that the MUD file does not not need to be signed again (=E2=80=9Cre-sign=E2=80=9D). Or do you really mean that the manuf= acturer will =E2=80=9Cresign=E2=80=9D (e.g., =E2=80=9Cleave=E2=80=9D or =E2=80= =9Cstand down=E2=80=9D) the MUD file by moving it to the archival location? If so, this needs to be clearer.
Right.=C2=A0 Re-sign.

(6) Section 3.12. This section mentions "standard classes=E2=80=9D. There=E2=80=99s should be a reference to what t= hose classes would be, or more text describing what is a =E2=80=9Cstandard cla= ss=E2=80=9D. Should there be an IANA registry of =E2=80=9Cstandard classes=E2=80= =9D?

Yes.=C2=A0 I don't actually have a registry for this, and maybe we ne= ed one.

Regards,

Eliot



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I am preparing for the next version of the draft. There is one major change contemplated that is not yet addressed. I received feedback from the IETF Chicago meeting regarding how best to structure URLs in manufacturer certificates. There are currently two planned, one for MUD and one for ANIMA/BRSKI. The question is whether these should be combined.=20 I had said in Chicago that I would ask various manufacturers about whether additional complexity on the backend is worth saving the bytes in the certificate. There was, as you might imagine, a mixed response.=20 A number of manufacturers answered, =E2=80=9CNo, and in fact we want to d= o our own certificate extensions=E2=80=9D. Others simply answered =E2=80=9CNo,= the code requirements for ANIMA will probably make the cert extension a relatively minimal matter=E2=80=9D. And some manufacturers, said, =E2=80= =9Cyes, every byte counts.=E2=80=9D I am proceeding in a way that accommodates the 3rd= group for now, but I seek discussion. If we combine the URLs the way it would work is that there would be a service endpoint along the lines of the following: * https://example.com/.well-known/mfg/modelname At that point, we would need to deference, introducing some additional complexity somewhere in the system. We should be mindful of the following issue: 1. Versioning should be supported OUTSIDE of the referenced service.=20 The more that is done, the more freedom the referenced service has the ability to change. 2. Versioning of services should not be done in lock step. That is, if we keep the versioning information in the URL, that means that when the MUD version is bumped, so too would the ANIMA version. It is possible to keep a registry that would indicate URL versioning and then map to all the different versions of whatever is referenced, but that seems ridiculously complex. 3. The resolution mechanism to services should be independent of how the URL is gotten by the various {MUD/ANIMA/...} controllers. And thus, if a MUD controller receives the URL via LLDP or DHCP, the same processing should occur as if it was received via a certificate. This simplifies code paths, and will hence reduce risk of bugs. It will also follow the principle of least astonishment. It seems to me the simplest way to handle this sort of thing is to create a table that MUD/ANIMA controllers simply download when they see the URL. It might look something like this: { "mfg-services" : [=20 "mud", "v1", "https://mud.example.com/Frobmaster3000.json", "anima", "v1", "https://masa.example.com/masa-service" ] } This sort of change would be required in both the ANIMA and MUD services, but could then be used for any other manufacturer-based service. Is this what people want? For MUD, this amounts to a simple additional file retrieval. For ANIMA, the same. Then one simply dereferences the table. Most importantly, all implementations need to be prepared to handle the case where a particular service is NOT listed (this might seem like a big duh, but I figured I'd mention it). Comments? Eliot --------------CF38E7428FCA5CFB328C2BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone,

Just a quick update on this document.=C2=A0 I am preparing for the ne= xt version of the draft.=C2=A0 There is one major change contemplated th= at is not yet addressed.

I received feedback from the IETF Chicago meeting regarding how best to structure URLs in manufacturer certificates.=C2=A0 There ar= e currently two planned, one for MUD and one for ANIMA/BRSKI.=C2=A0 T= he question is whether these should be combined.=C2=A0

I had said in Chicago that I would ask various manufacturers about whether additional complexity on the backend is worth saving the bytes in the certificate.=C2=A0 There was, as you might imagine= , a mixed response.=C2=A0 A number of manufacturers answered, =E2=80=9C= No, and in fact we want to do our own certificate extensions=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 O= thers simply answered =E2=80=9CNo, the code requirements for ANIMA will probably= make the cert extension a relatively minimal matter=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 And = some manufacturers, said, =E2=80=9Cyes, every byte counts.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0= I am proceeding in a way that accommodates the 3rd group for now, but I seek discussion.

If we combine the URLs the way it would work is that there would be a service endpoint along the lines of the following:

At that point, we would need to deference, introducing some additional complexity somewhere in the system.=C2=A0 We should be min= dful of the following issue:
  1. Versioning should be supported OUTSIDE of the referenced service.=C2=A0 The more that is done, the more freedom the refere= nced service has the ability to change.
  2. Versioning of services should not be done in lock step.=C2=A0 T= hat is, if we keep the versioning information in the URL, that means that when the MUD version is bumped, so too would the ANIMA version.=C2=A0 It is possible to keep a registry that would indic= ate URL versioning and then map to all the different versions of whatever is referenced, but that seems ridiculously complex.
    3. =
  3. The resolution mechanism to services should be independent of how the URL is gotten by the various {MUD/ANIMA/...} controllers.=C2=A0 And thus, if a MUD controller receives the URL= via LLDP or DHCP, the same processing should occur as if it was received via a certificate.=C2=A0 This simplifies code paths, and= will hence reduce risk of bugs.=C2=A0 It will also follow the principle of least astonishment.

It seems to me the simplest way to handle this sort of thing is to create a table that MUD/ANIMA controllers simply download when they see the URL.=C2=A0 It might look something like this:

{
   "mfg-services" : [=20
     "mud", "v1", "https://mud.example.com/Frobmaster3000.=
json",
     "anima", "v1", "https://masa.example.com/masa-service"
   ]
}
This sort of change would be required in both the ANIMA and MUD services, but could then be used for any other manufacturer-based service.=C2=A0 Is this what people want?=C2=A0 For MUD, this amounts = to a simple additional file retrieval.=C2=A0 For ANIMA, the same.=C2=A0 Th= en one simply dereferences the table.=C2=A0 Most importantly, all implementations need to be prepared to handle the case where a particular service is NOT listed (this might seem like a big duh, but I figured I'd mention it).

Comments?

Eliot

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E=Sophos;i="5.37,244,1488844800"; d="scan'208";a="236820205" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 24 Apr 2017 13:44:08 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (xch-rcd-010.cisco.com [173.37.102.20]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3ODi8Dr009596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:44:08 GMT Received: from xch-aln-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) by XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (173.37.102.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:44:08 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-007.cisco.com ([173.36.7.17]) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com ([173.36.7.17]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:44:07 -0500 From: "Senthil Sivakumar (ssenthil)" To: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 Thread-Index: AQHSuq1w4uZc9W1IN0+rg3kgnZS+n6HUnRiA Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:44:07 +0000 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"ibagdona@gmail.com" , Zhoutianran , "opsawg@ietf.org" , Anima WG Thread-Topic: [Anima] dealing with multiple manufacturer services with a single certificate extension Thread-Index: AQHSvCQhd5qqrdmB6UuuwhRam3JFFaHVAPOA Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:52:00 +0000 Message-ID: <43DF7C00-FC3B-4327-9EE4-13ED6520E580@cisco.com> References: <031d87aa-1839-d7af-0723-dd9a2aa7ad0a@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <031d87aa-1839-d7af-0723-dd9a2aa7ad0a@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.99.106.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_43DF7C00FC3B43279EE413ED6520E580ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Anima] dealing with multiple manufacturer services with a single certificate extension X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List 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X19fX19fX18NCj4gT1BTQVdHIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBPUFNBV0dAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9vcHNhd2cNCg== From nobody Wed Apr 26 01:18:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C552131D0E for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:18:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, WEIRD_QUOTING=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yO8R3oxgxNdt for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5E1B131D0F for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 258A5A00E8; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:18:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.60]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C222F1A0078; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:18:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c1d7:e278:e357:11ad%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:18:15 +0200 From: To: Tianran Zhou , "Senthil Sivakumar (ssenthil)" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: Ian Farrer Thread-Topic: [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 Thread-Index: AQHSuq1w4uZc9W1IN0+rg3kgnZS+n6HUnRiAgAKsELCAAAvYAA== Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 08:18:15 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E53A1B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <72F12146-27EC-4CA1-9D42-BD367A325801@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 08:18:21 -0000 SGkgVGlhbnJhbiwNCg0KWWVzLCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBjb25zZW5zdXMgb24g dGhlIE5BVCBZQU5HIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgYW5kIHByb2NlZWQgd2l0aCBpdHMgcHVibGljYXRpb24g 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text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: Cc: warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, zhoutianran@huawei.com, opsawg-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149319811301.14925.17500960463908827832.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 02:15:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] opsawg - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:15:13 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Tianran Zhou, a Chair of the opsawg working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Operations and Management Area Working Group Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Tianran Zhou Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: ippm nvo3 Second Priority: detnet idr People who must be present: Benoit Claise Warren Kumari Tianran Zhou Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: PLEASE NOTE: Combined OpsAWG / OpsAREA --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Apr 26 03:09:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E74129A9C for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 03:09:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_QUOTING=0.001] 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[OPSAWG] [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:09:02 -0000 Med This I-D references YANG 1.0 and not YANG 1.1. Since there are incompatible changes between the two releases, I think that the I-D should address that. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Tianran Zhou" ; "Senthil Sivakumar (ssenthil)" ; Cc: "Ian Farrer" Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 > Hi Tianran, > > Yes, we would like to have a consensus on the NAT YANG data model and proceed with its publication in opsawg. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Tianran Zhou > > Envoyé : mercredi 26 avril 2017 09:46 > > À : Senthil Sivakumar (ssenthil); opsawg@ietf.org > > Objet : Re: [OPSAWG] [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 > > > > I am looking at the YANG tree. The overall structure of this module is > > clear and simple. > > In addition to the text improvement, what do you want to discuss and get > > consensus wrt the YANG data model? > > > > Regards, > > Tianran > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Senthil > > > Sivakumar (ssenthil) > > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:44 PM > > > To: opsawg@ietf.org > > > Subject: [OPSAWG] FW: [Softwires] Comments on draft-sivakumar-yang-nat- > > 05 > > > > > > Please find below the comments on the draft from Dan Wing, who chaired > > Behave > > > WG in the past and my response to his comments On the draft-sivakumar- > > yang-nat. > > > Opsawg chairs had asked us to seek reviews from NAT experts. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Senthil > > > > > > On 4/21/17, 10:42 AM, "Senthil Sivakumar (ssenthil)" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sorry, it took a while to get back to this. Thanks for your > > comments. > > > Please see below for the responses. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Senthil > > > > > > On 2/8/17, 1:15 PM, "Softwires on behalf of Senthil Sivakumar > > (ssenthil)" > > > wrote: > > > > > > I had reached out to Dan Wing and some others, as suggested by > > Ian > > > to get reviews on the > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05. > > > > > > I am just posting the response from Dan here, I will address his > > > comments in a separate email and copy the alias. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Senthil > > > > > > Use dwing-ietf@fuggles.com as my email address, to ease sorting > > the > > > email if someone happens to follow up. > > > > > > >> was going to ask you for a favor to review a I-D for me. The > > > recommendation from OPS WG was to get > > > >> Some expert reviews from Behave members, finding any > > behave > > > members willing to do a review is hard these days. > > > >> > > > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sivakumar-yang-nat-05 > > > > > > > > My comments -- do you want them public somewhere? > > > > > > > > 1. Why not also cover NAT66 and NPTv6? It seems the > > design > > > allows those, but the text doesn't mention that they can also be > > expressed > > > in this model. > > > > > > NPTv6 is definitely a possibility, I am not sure if that is > > something > > > that needs to be in this yang model though. NAT66 is a can of worms and > > > I would like to stay away from that. > > > If NAT66 becomes a reality, we could define a yang model for it > > then. > > > > > > > > 2. " A NAT function can either assign individual port > > > numbers or port > > > > sets. Both features are supported in the YANG data > > model." > > > -> can you provide citation or definition of "port set"? > > > Ok, I will add the definition of port sets. > > > > > > > > > > > 3. " To accommodate deployments where [RFC6302] is > > not > > > enabled, the NAT > > > > function can be configured to log the destination > > port > > > number." -> that logging is not a "NAT function" (whereas the previous > > > paragraph does describe a NAT function). Logging is a function of YANG, > > > right? Perhaps instead how about text like "... this defined Yang model > > > can be configured to ..." > > > > > > Well, semantically, the NAT must provide the destination port to be > > able > > > to log the destination port. draft-ietf-ipfix-nat-logging provides the > > > templates to log the destination ports, the logging of the destination > > port > > > can be enabled by the Yang model. The intention of the text here is > > to > > > enable NAT logging of destination ports through the Yang model. > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "This data model assumes that pools of IPv4 > > addresses > > > can be > > > > provisioned to NAT function. These pools may be > > > contiguous or non- > > > > contiguous." > > > > > > > > First sentence does not read well, would be improved > > with > > > "... can be provisioned to *the* NAT function". Also, please provide > > > description or citation to what is meant by "pool". > > > I agree, I rephrase the first sentence as follows: > > > “This data model assumes that a block of IPv4 global addresses can > > be > > > provisioned to the NAT function.” > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "A NAT device can enabled multiple NAT instances;" > > > > > > > > does not read well. > > > > > > Yes, agreed. Will rephrase as: > > > “A single NAT device can have multiple NAT instances;" > > > > > > > > 6. " o Exclude/include ports (e.g.; system port) > > from the > > > port assignment > > > > pool." > > > > > > > > Nit: That should be "system portS" (plural). > > > > > > Ok. > > > > > > > > Serious: that is a significant deficiency. > > > The reason I think it was excluded was that, it comes with > > significant > > > complexity and most of the > > > NAT implementations don’t have explicit configuration to allow this > > > behavior. We will discuss this among the authors and > > > See what is the best way to address this. > > > > > > > > 7. "Deterministic NAT assignment scheme" -> provide > > > description or citation about what that means. > > > > > > > Ok. > > > > 8. "module: ietf-nat > > > > +--rw nat-config > > > > | +--rw nat-instances > > > > | +--rw nat-instance* [id] > > > > | +--rw id > > uint32 > > > > | +--rw enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw external-ip-address-pool* [pool-id] > > > > | | +--rw pool-id uint32 > > > > | | +--rw external-ip-pool? inet:ipv4- > > prefix" > > > > > > > > How is IPv6 expressed for NAT64? > > > > > > The address pool is always a IPv4 global address pool whether is > > NAT64 > > > or NAT44. > > > This is the address block from which the source is translated to. > > This > > > configuration applies > > > To both NAT64 and NAT44 and hence no distinction is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. " | +--rw subscriber-mask-v6? > > > uint8 > > > > | +--rw subscriber-mask-v4* [sub-mask-id] > > > > | | +--rw sub-mask-id uint32 > > > > | | +--rw sub-mask inet:ipv4-prefix" > > > > > > > > Why are IPv6 masks expressed differently than IPv4 > > mask? > > > > > > The subscriber-mask-v6 is described in the later part of the > > document > > > and it was thought of having a single mask value that can be used > > > to apply to determine if the packet need to be translated or not. We > > > thought it would simplify the configuration. But thinking about it > > again, > > > I think some of the implementations of NAT64 don’t understand an > > integer > > > as a mask but they need the whole ipv6-prefix. I am going to discuss > > > This with the authors and change this to ipv6-prefix. At the least, > > we > > > will have either a prefix or an integer to represent the mask length. > > > > > > > > Is "subscriber" the same as "internal"? I mean, this > > whole > > > Yang model seems to use "subscriber" and "external", rather than > > "internal" > > > and "external". What if the "internal" side isn't """subscribers""", > > such > > > as a NAT in front of a datacenter, like a NAT64 in front of an IPv6-only > > > datacenter, or a NAT44 in front of an IPv4-only datacenter; in that case > > > the "subscriber" is now confusingly the server. > > > > > > Subscriber does imply internal. I will add some text around this to > > clarify > > > what subscribers mean here. If all the authors agree, I will change it > > to > > > internal and external, rather than subscriber and external. > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. | +--rw port-randomization-enable? > > > boolean > > > > | +--rw port-preservation-enable? > > boolean > > > > > > > > both of those could be set to TRUE, creating > > opportunity for > > > configuration and implementation conflict, creating interoperability > > > problems. Can you instead define a trinary value, or does Yang like to > > have > > > booleans so much, even when they can cause interop problems? > > > > > > I will discuss this with the authors and address this. I don’t know > > if > > > we can represent this more efficiently. > > > > > > > > 11. | +--rw udp-timeouts? > > uint32 > > > > > > > > Have you considered per-port timeouts? Some NATs are > > > configurable with short timeouts for certain ports, such as 10 seconds > > on > > > port 53 (DNS) and NTP (123) and longer timeouts on other ports. This > > Yang > > > model doesn't allow that. Seems a port list might be better to handle > > such > > > configurations. > > > > > > Good point. I will add the per-port timeouts with a list. > > > > > > > > 12. I noticed there isn't any reference in the text to > > RFC7857, > > > which updates and clarifies a lot of things. Is the Yang model > > compliant > > > with the changes caused by RFC7857? The text should certainly cite it > > where > > > it makes sense, but more importantly if additional settings are required > > > by RFC7857, they need to be part of the yang model. > > > > > > > > > > I believe it is compliant, I will talk to Med and make sure we are > > covered > > > here. > > > > > > > 13. | +--rw logging-info > > > > | | +--rw destination-address inet:ipv4- > > prefix > > > > | | +--rw destination-port inet:port- > > number > > > > > > > > this doesn't indicate UDP or TCP, and doesn't seem able > > to > > > log ICMP or other protocols that lack ports, which NATs might NAT (e.g., > > > IPsec ESP protocol 50). Should be highlighted in security > > considerations. > > > Ok. > > > > > > > > 14. | +--rw connection-limit > > > > | | +--rw limit-per-subscriber? uint32 > > > > | | +--rw limit-per-vrf? uint32 > > > > | | +--rw limit-per-subnet? > > > inet:ipv4-prefix > > > > > > > > Can only list one subnet? > > > > > > > Yes, it is a per-subnet basis and optional. > > > > > > > This doesn't allow different limits per VRF (e.g., VRF > > 1 is > > > limited to 100 mappings, VRF 2 is limited to 5555 mappings). Seems > > > restrictive. > > > > > > > Ok, we will discuss this again and decide if these should be an > > array > > > of limits. > > > > > > > 15. | +--rw ftp-alg-enable? > > > boolean > > > > | +--rw dns-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw tftp-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw msrpc-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw netbios-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw rcmd-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw ldap-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw sip-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw rtsp-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw h323-alg-enable? > > boolean > > > > | +--rw all-algs-enable? > > boolean > > > > > > > > OMG. ALGs, really? Do those need to be per-subscriber > > or > > > per-VRF or per-subnet? How are new ALGs added to Yang, like if I want > > an > > > ALG for, um, I dunno, WebRTC or ssh. > > > > > > > The yang models are extensible, you can augment more nodes or > > fields. > > > But you could make the above argument for anything that changes. > > Honestly, > > > I haven’t seen a need for a new ALG > > > In quite a few years. > > > > > > > 16. In mapping-table, I see: "rw lifetime > > > uint32". Would this track the lifetime while the TCP connection is > > becoming > > > fully-formed and hits the various Yang-defined 'timeout' values > > > (tcp-idle-timeout, tcp-trans-open-timeout, and so on)?". I suppose it > > does. > > > Text should say so. > > > > > > > > 17. | +--ro nat44-support? > > > boolean > > > > | +--ro nat64-support? > > > boolean > > > > > > > > > > > > NAT46? NAT66? NPTv6? XLAT64? CLAT? > > > Well, I will add NPTv6 to it, I don’t want to support non-ietf > > flavors > > > like 46 and 66. > > > > > > > > 18. stealth-mode-support needs better description than > > > "Indicates whether to respond for unsolicited traffic.", and needs to > > align > > > with IETF host requirements and IETF router requirements RFCs. > > > > > > > Ok, I will improve the description and add references. > > > > > > > > -d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > Senthil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Softwires mailing list > > > Softwires@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OPSAWG mailing list > > > OPSAWG@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > _______________________________________________ > > OPSAWG mailing list > > OPSAWG@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg >