From nobody Wed Nov 1 03:05:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC05B1395F0; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 03:05:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IWC6Zs7gqLuS; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 03:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62BF2139567; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 03:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F2DF6B; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:05:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id rAHxX4n1KQnp; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:05:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:05:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B7220111; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:05:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6zRSuJVdOp6v; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:05:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D64B20110; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:05:37 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 03D2D4146993; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:04:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:04:09 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171101100409.n6sycvnj5km4jrdk@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" References: <150912805550.22087.2939629492652644040@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A060DB1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20171030162210.ni72dxxmc45o3cak@elstar.local> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A063187@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A063187@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:05:43 -0000 On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 09:55:46AM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > > That said, there are a number of details where I doubt > > > > the model is correct and things where I believe things are incomplete. > > > > Given that there are many different NAT functions, I also expected to > > > > see usage of YANG features. > > > > > > [Med] We used to make use of "features", but there was a comment during > > the WG call for adoption that requested us to make use of identities, > > instead. > > > > But these are not the same thing. > > [Med] You are right. Sorry for not being clear. > > What I meant is that the module used, for example, "if-feature nat64" and so on to refer to NAT flavors. We replaced those with "when" statements that points to the actual capabilities of an implementation. > Another change we made, is that we used to have "Boolean" to indicate the support of a given tarnation scheme (e.g., nat64-support, nat44-support), but we updated those to make use of identities. I do not recall having seen these when expressions. But even if there were when expressions, this does not the same as features. A when expression puts a constraint on a valid configuration, a feature expresses that not all parts of a model may be implemented. This is implementation time partitioning vs. configuration time partitioning. > If I am not a nat64, then apparently > > several objects to not apply to me. > > [Med] Yes. We tried to cover this by "when" statements. > > This is what features allow you to > > express. Perhaps someone wanted identities for something different, I > > do not know. I think it is reasonable to assume that not all NAT > > implementations will support all types of NATs that the model supports > > and hence the model should reflect this. > > > > [Med] The module indicates what a given implementation has to support based on its capabilities. This is handled by means of "when" statements. This seems to be a mis-understanding of what when expressions do. See above for the explanation. > > > > - What is the vrf-routing-instance identity good for? > > > > > > [Med] This is used to bind a NAT function to an external VRF routing > > instance. Please check https://www.ietf.org/mail- > > archive/web/opsawg/current/msg05117.html > > > > > > > I very much doubt that an identity identifies a VRF instance. I am not > > questioning the need to identify a VRF, I am questioning that the > > solution put in place achieves this. > > [Med] Thank you for clarifying. This is actually a good point. The options we considered are as follows: > > (1) Use an Identity to avoid struggling with semantics of how a VRF can be defined. > (2) Point to draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model, likely (?) as a normative reference. > (3) Remove the VRF thing from the draft; future extensions can be defined. > > Given that "VRFs" are not required for all NATs and some reviewers asked to add VRFs in addition to interfaces, we went for option (1). Having a dependency on a YANG module under development is not justified for all implementations. > But (1) is broken as far as I can tell. You either work out with the routing guys how to properly refer to a VRF or you better leave this out. > > If leafs are not configurable, then they should be config false. > > [Med] I will revert config to false as we used to have in previous versions. As I said earlier, pyang will cry. I don't know how to fix that. > Then ask for help including the error message. Marking something that is conceptually "config false" as "config true" is pretty misleading. > [Med] The current module allows for implementations that support many translation flavors. In particular, it allows for a same NAT instance to enable many features in the same time. > > There is no need to indicate explicitly the translation scheme(s) to enable because this will be implicitly deduced from the configuration parameters. For example: > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool only, will automatically behave in the base NAT mode. > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool and port-related parameters will behave in the NAPT mode. > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool, port-related parameters, and NAT64 prefixes will behave in the statefull NAT64 mode > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool, port-related parameters, dst-nat-enable=true, and dst-ip-address-pool will behave in the NAPT mode + destination NAT > > and so on. As long as this is clear from the specification. One option you may consider is to use presence containers that can carry the bit when to enable / disable a specific NAT function. (Although personally, I am not such a big fan of presence containers, perhaps since I am not a fan of side effects in general). > > > [Med] Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > - logging-info > > > > > > > > Is this information complete? Perhaps it is for plain syslog > > > > (without any security) but I doubt the info is complete for the > > > > other transports mentioned, at least not for FTP. And surely, if you > > > > want to protect the logging information, then you will neeed way > > > > more parameters. And what does 'retrieving' logging entries mean? I > > > > assume with syslog and ipfix you push log messages. I am less sure > > > > about FTP. Perhaps less is more and simply provide support for > > > > syslog and leave the other options for extensions. You have a choice > > > > in place, so not need to go and deal with all possible complexity > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] It is out of scope of specify the exact logging information. Those > > considerations are out of scope. We only focus on the protocol and the > > server information. > > > > I think my comment was saying that the information is not sufficient to > > talk to a server. > > [Med] It is only about the minimal set of information. The information is not complete on purpose. Protocol-specific information is out of scope of this document. I am not sure it is valuable to have a standards-track specification for something that is incomplete up the point that it can't be used if implemented without annotations and extensions, i.e., the whole thing can't be interoperable unless there is a standards-track extension. So I would rather not standardize this at all and wait until someone is willing to work out the details. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Nov 6 06:58:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951B713FC32; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 06:58:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57M0RoXi3epD; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 06:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9233C13FC2F; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 06:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 04A531C0B0B; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:58:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.34]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D491E180052; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:58:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bd00:88f8:8552:3349%17]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 15:58:02 +0100 From: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 Thread-Index: AQHTT09nb4Xo03k7b0eBVGOEwFdqM6L8ajgAgAAc3gCAARxwQIABnpyAgAgbCIA= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:58:02 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07212C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <150912805550.22087.2939629492652644040@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A060DB1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20171030162210.ni72dxxmc45o3cak@elstar.local> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A063187@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20171101100409.n6sycvnj5km4jrdk@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20171101100409.n6sycvnj5km4jrdk@elstar.local> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 14:58:11 -0000 Hi Juergen, Thank you for the follow-up and for the suggestions.=20 I made the following changes to address your comments: - Revert back to the use of features. - Leave out the logging container for a future extension. - Remove the "VRF" part from the module, but maintain an extensible design = to easily support VRF in the future. =20 FWIW, the updated version of the module which integrates those comments is = available at:=20 https://github.com/boucadair/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang/blob/master/ietf-na= t%402017-11-06.yang=20 Unless you have any further comment, I'm planning to submit this version ea= rly next week.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de= ] > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 1 novembre 2017 11:04 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN > Cc=A0: yang-doctors@ietf.org; draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org; > opsawg@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 >=20 > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 09:55:46AM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > wrote: > > > > That said, there are a number of details where I doubt > > > > > the model is correct and things where I believe things are > incomplete. > > > > > Given that there are many different NAT functions, I also expecte= d > to > > > > > see usage of YANG features. > > > > > > > > [Med] We used to make use of "features", but there was a comment > during > > > the WG call for adoption that requested us to make use of identities, > > > instead. > > > > > > But these are not the same thing. > > > > [Med] You are right. Sorry for not being clear. > > > > What I meant is that the module used, for example, "if-feature nat64" > and so on to refer to NAT flavors. We replaced those with "when" > statements that points to the actual capabilities of an implementation. > > Another change we made, is that we used to have "Boolean" to indicate > the support of a given tarnation scheme (e.g., nat64-support, nat44- > support), but we updated those to make use of identities. >=20 > I do not recall having seen these when expressions. But even if there > were when expressions, this does not the same as features. A when > expression puts a constraint on a valid configuration, a feature > expresses that not all parts of a model may be implemented. This is > implementation time partitioning vs. configuration time partitioning. >=20 > > If I am not a nat64, then apparently > > > several objects to not apply to me. > > > > [Med] Yes. We tried to cover this by "when" statements. > > > > This is what features allow you to > > > express. Perhaps someone wanted identities for something different, I > > > do not know. I think it is reasonable to assume that not all NAT > > > implementations will support all types of NATs that the model support= s > > > and hence the model should reflect this. > > > > > > > [Med] The module indicates what a given implementation has to support > based on its capabilities. This is handled by means of "when" statements. >=20 > This seems to be a mis-understanding of what when expressions do. See > above for the explanation. >=20 > > > > > - What is the vrf-routing-instance identity good for? > > > > > > > > [Med] This is used to bind a NAT function to an external VRF routin= g > > > instance. Please check https://www.ietf.org/mail- > > > archive/web/opsawg/current/msg05117.html > > > > > > > > > > I very much doubt that an identity identifies a VRF instance. I am no= t > > > questioning the need to identify a VRF, I am questioning that the > > > solution put in place achieves this. > > > > [Med] Thank you for clarifying. This is actually a good point. The > options we considered are as follows: > > > > (1) Use an Identity to avoid struggling with semantics of how a VRF can > be defined. > > (2) Point to draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model, likely (?) as a normative > reference. > > (3) Remove the VRF thing from the draft; future extensions can be > defined. > > > > Given that "VRFs" are not required for all NATs and some reviewers aske= d > to add VRFs in addition to interfaces, we went for option (1). Having a > dependency on a YANG module under development is not justified for all > implementations. > > >=20 > But (1) is broken as far as I can tell. You either work out with the > routing guys how to properly refer to a VRF or you better leave this > out. >=20 > > > If leafs are not configurable, then they should be config false. > > > > [Med] I will revert config to false as we used to have in previous > versions. As I said earlier, pyang will cry. I don't know how to fix that= . > > >=20 > Then ask for help including the error message. Marking something that > is conceptually "config false" as "config true" is pretty misleading. >=20 > > [Med] The current module allows for implementations that support many > translation flavors. In particular, it allows for a same NAT instance to > enable many features in the same time. > > > > There is no need to indicate explicitly the translation scheme(s) to > enable because this will be implicitly deduced from the configuration > parameters. For example: > > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool only, > will automatically behave in the base NAT mode. > > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool and > port-related parameters will behave in the NAPT mode. > > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool, port- > related parameters, and NAT64 prefixes will behave in the statefull NAT64 > mode > > - an implementation supplied with an external IPv4 address pool, port- > related parameters, dst-nat-enable=3Dtrue, and dst-ip-address-pool will > behave in the NAPT mode + destination NAT > > > > and so on. >=20 > As long as this is clear from the specification. One option you may > consider is to use presence containers that can carry the bit when to > enable / disable a specific NAT function. (Although personally, I am > not such a big fan of presence containers, perhaps since I am not a > fan of side effects in general). >=20 > > > > [Med] Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - logging-info > > > > > > > > > > Is this information complete? Perhaps it is for plain syslog > > > > > (without any security) but I doubt the info is complete for the > > > > > other transports mentioned, at least not for FTP. And surely, i= f > you > > > > > want to protect the logging information, then you will neeed wa= y > > > > > more parameters. And what does 'retrieving' logging entries > mean? I > > > > > assume with syslog and ipfix you push log messages. I am less > sure > > > > > about FTP. Perhaps less is more and simply provide support for > > > > > syslog and leave the other options for extensions. You have a > choice > > > > > in place, so not need to go and deal with all possible > complexity > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] It is out of scope of specify the exact logging information. > Those > > > considerations are out of scope. We only focus on the protocol and th= e > > > server information. > > > > > > I think my comment was saying that the information is not sufficient > to > > > talk to a server. > > > > [Med] It is only about the minimal set of information. The information > is not complete on purpose. Protocol-specific information is out of scope > of this document. >=20 > I am not sure it is valuable to have a standards-track specification > for something that is incomplete up the point that it can't be used if > implemented without annotations and extensions, i.e., the whole thing > can't be interoperable unless there is a standards-track extension. So > I would rather not standardize this at all and wait until someone is > willing to work out the details. >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From natelesser@masterpeaceltd.com Mon Nov 6 13:52:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC0913FB8F for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=masterpeaceltd.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QEV6z4juaU2U for ; 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Mon, 6 Nov 2017 21:52:35 +0000 Received: from SN1PR11MB0591.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.135.26]) by SN1PR11MB0591.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.135.26]) with mapi id 15.20.0197.019; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 21:52:35 +0000 From: Nate Lesser To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: Drew Cohen Thread-Topic: LC comments on draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13 Thread-Index: AQHTV0ltdB71LEjV402RZkUcobfC0g== Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 21:52:35 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=natelesser@masterpeaceltd.com; x-originating-ip: [207.244.64.22] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY4PR11MB1399; 6:A0tRGnfaQF3qFUANoeN43Y7G02QgKB3xSovJgsQTd60GV8hSwuj4LSkpUYWkAWe7jFpY6KosbgqpdefBV3EYmo+olvI4KYLm8mzdHkxWzAiJZvKj6t7JG+Rbo0IyHOERXuAgj0SA5325myLQcLSeAQMNFh2aQQXQysUlXBOb8IWegiDv4i5SM4tq6/qi2HmDi/q7Fl+r156MByBi5hGVKhuAkBa1UE3/IpPJIhTIk+UXWJrZjh2rB5odz0VijcPy3wVvz9+iFhp+tEWpyFYYmAEUMIAog7UZedSIWkEt9O06Q2JsToEIXG9XZnBUhGvbkpP37z1cJR8GtCEC8sFJAJV3Q4ldEEe0IQyCSNmhzrc=; 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SRVR:CY4PR11MB1399; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:CY4PR11MB1399; x-forefront-prvs: 048396AFA0 received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: masterpeaceltd.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_SN1PR11MB0591DB230AA6F77135B96785A7500SN1PR11MB0591namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: masterpeaceltd.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 63bf6159-1cd2-450f-5dbf-08d52560b097 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Nov 2017 21:52:35.1028 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f4d79cdd-e99c-4840-b0f1-892526875643 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR11MB1399 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:59:59 -0800 Subject: [OPSAWG] LC comments on draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:53:40 -0000 --_000_SN1PR11MB0591DB230AA6F77135B96785A7500SN1PR11MB0591namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello operations and management area working group! On behalf of MasterPeace solutions, I am submitting the following comment t= o the IETF draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13. We suggest allowing MUD files to inclu= de both device and application policies in addition to network policies. We would be happy to discuss this comment at your convenience. Best wishes, ---- Nate Lesser Managing Director, MasterPeace Launch Pad 443.259.9785 (o) 917.686.9611 (c) www.mplaunchpad.com --_000_SN1PR11MB0591DB230AA6F77135B96785A7500SN1PR11MB0591namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello operations and management area worki= ng group!
 
On behalf of MasterPeace solutions, I am s= ubmitting the following comment to the IETF draft-ietf-opsawg-mud= -13. We suggest allowing MUD files to include both device and application policies= in addition to network policies.
 
We would be happy to discuss this comment at yo= ur convenience. 
 
Best wishes,


----
Nate Lesser 
Managing Director, Mast= erPeace Launch Pad
443.259.9785 (o)=
917.686.9611 (c)=

www.mplaunchpad.com<= /a>

--_000_SN1PR11MB0591DB230AA6F77135B96785A7500SN1PR11MB0591namp_-- From nobody Wed Nov 8 20:29:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4431E129C5C for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 20:29:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z2ouq_WET-9O for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 20:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from bgl-iport-1.cisco.com (bgl-iport-1.cisco.com [72.163.197.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC782129C59 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 20:28:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10368; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510201735; x=1511411335; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=0cwN4Zc5nJyDAqwIFRFporzK8eKAsd4zG2L+ng0OxSo=; b=cl8Dm+Vw0zRVwjqkmiiK6sUyo96vjB/YKxDJ4u//CB2+bWZ1mkGeVnY7 a75UQwrSifc0qM4hB1VS/HI9Hgszl6+86+45amFXQ7sF+vyQz4zj1M9Y1 yhDuV8Pa0zW4RIbiW5+JEhOUC30wLBb1yKnEUGnO7uXqqeGoKbx0TOJnH I=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B6AQAS2QNa/xjFo0hZAxkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGCRAGBU24ng32LE5AHJpEEhUiCEQcDGAEKhElPAoU8FwEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAWsohR8BAQEDAQEhJiULEAsYKgICJzAGAQoCBgIBAReKCBCqD4InJop1A?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBDg+DMIVtC4J2hTYmgk6CYwWSc48nhEOCI44?= =?us-ascii?q?Yi3mHP5YhgTkgATaBcTQhCB0VSYJkCYReOTaMCgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,367,1505779200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="78344669" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-3.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Nov 2017 04:28:49 +0000 Received: from [10.232.4.170] ([10.232.4.170]) by bgl-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vA94Snsa031929; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 04:28:49 GMT To: Nate Lesser , "opsawg@ietf.org" Cc: Drew Cohen References: From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 09:58:46 +0530 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QGDtQiXmLI2Knek6tEcPLwxHQsQLVVFff" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] LC comments on draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2017 04:29:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QGDtQiXmLI2Knek6tEcPLwxHQsQLVVFff Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="pJ3cwnufFfiRlVohJswN9QEADhuHKdA3G"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Nate Lesser , "opsawg@ietf.org" Cc: Drew Cohen Message-ID: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] LC comments on draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13 References: In-Reply-To: --pJ3cwnufFfiRlVohJswN9QEADhuHKdA3G Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------72BE74651A36717D5CC152B3" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------72BE74651A36717D5CC152B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Drew, The model can be augmented to cover application policies.=C2=A0 A separat= e document would be needed for that, but I am happy to work with you on that, if you like. Eliot On 11/7/17 3:22 AM, Nate Lesser wrote: > Hello operations and management area=C2=A0working group! > =C2=A0 > On behalf=C2=A0of MasterPeace solutions, I am submitting the following > comment to the=C2=A0IETF=C2=A0draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13.=C2=A0We suggest= allowing MUD > files to include both device and application policies in addition to > network policies. > =C2=A0 > We would be happy to discuss this comment at your convenience.=C2=A0 > =C2=A0 > Best wishes, > > > ---- > Nate Lesser=C2=A0 > Managing Director, MasterPeace Launch Pad > 443.259.9785 (o) > 917.686.9611 (c) > > www.mplaunchpad.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg --------------72BE74651A36717D5CC152B3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Drew,


The model can be augmented to cover application policies.=C2=A0 A separate document would be needed for that, but I am happy to work with you on that, if you like.


Eliot


On 11/7/17 3:22 AM, Nate Lesser wrote:= 


_______________________________________________
OPSAWG mailing list
OPS=
AWG@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg

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The authors please send your slides to the chairs. Thanks, OPSA WG Co-Chairs From nobody Sun Nov 12 22:35:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3EA12008A; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 22:35:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.65.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-opsawg-service-model-explained@ietf.org, opsawg-chairs@ietf.org, Tianran Zhou , opsawg@ietf.org, zhoutianran@huawei.com, warren@kumari.net, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <151055491738.21486.14929224241439113667.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 22:35:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Document Action: 'Service Models Explained' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-opsawg-service-model-explained-05.txt) X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 06:35:17 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Service Models Explained' (draft-ietf-opsawg-service-model-explained-05.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Operations and Management Area Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Warren Kumari and Benoit Claise. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-service-model-explained/ Technical Summary This document describes service models as used within the IETF, and also shows where a service model might fit into a Software Defined Networking architecture. Note that service models do not make any assumption of how a service is actually engineered and delivered for a customer; details of how network protocols and devices are engineered to deliver a service are captured in other models that are not exposed through the Customer-Provider Interface. Working Group Summary There was debate on the "network service model" concept in RFC 8199 . This was solved by coordinating the cross WG discussion with NETMOD during both the WG adoption call and WG LC. Document Quality This document has received extensive input and review. It has already been used to direct L2SM and L3SM work. One of the authors of a closely related document RFC8199 (Benoit Claise) reviewed this document and provided very useful comments, to align the document and terms -- there have been integrated. Much of the discussion is somewhat over my head, and so I'm relying on his expert opinion. Personnel Document Shepherd: Tianran Zhou "Responsible" AD: Warren Kumari From nobody Sun Nov 12 23:02:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5E3128B27; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:02:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.65.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151055655985.21338.6502465132306696240@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:02:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-08.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:02:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for Network Address Translation (NAT) and Network Prefix Translation (NPT) Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Senthil Sivakumar Christian Jacquenet Suresh Vinapamula Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-08.txt Pages : 92 Date : 2017-11-12 Abstract: For the sake of network automation and the need for programming Network Address Translation (NAT) function in particular, a data model for configuring and managing the NAT is essential. This document defines a YANG module for the NAT function. NAT44, Network Address and Protocol Translation from IPv6 Clients to IPv4 Servers (NAT64), Customer-side transLATor (CLAT), Stateless IP/ ICMP Translation (SIIT), Explicit Address Mappings for Stateless IP/ ICMP Translation (SIIT EAM), and IPv6 Network Prefix Translation (NPTv6) are covered in this document. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" "RFC XXXX: A YANG Data Model for Network Address Translation (NAT) and Network Prefix Translation (NPT)"; "reference: RFC XXXX" The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 12 23:08:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E5D12948F; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:08:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kozaBWclIePp; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E7281200C1; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 23:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D35BF403C4; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:07:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.75]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id ACA3C40068; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:07:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:07:58 +0100 From: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 Thread-Index: AQHTT09nb4Xo03k7b0eBVGOEwFdqM6L8ajgAgAAc3gCAARxwQIABnpyAgAgbCICACp8/4A== Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:07:57 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07763D@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <150912805550.22087.2939629492652644040@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A060DB1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20171030162210.ni72dxxmc45o3cak@elstar.local> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A063187@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20171101100409.n6sycvnj5km4jrdk@elstar.local> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07212C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07212C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:08:04 -0000 Hi Juergen, all,=20 An updated version integrating your comments is available online:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang/=20 Major changes are:=20 - use of features - remove the logging configuration parameters=20 - update the security section - add a section to discuss the relationship with the NAT MIB =20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 6 novembre 2017 15:58 > =C0=A0: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Cc=A0: yang-doctors@ietf.org; draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org; > opsawg@ietf.org > Objet=A0: RE: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 >=20 > Hi Juergen, >=20 > Thank you for the follow-up and for the suggestions. >=20 > I made the following changes to address your comments: >=20 > - Revert back to the use of features. > - Leave out the logging container for a future extension. > - Remove the "VRF" part from the module, but maintain an extensible desig= n > to easily support VRF in the future. >=20 > FWIW, the updated version of the module which integrates those comments i= s > available at: > https://github.com/boucadair/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang/blob/master/ietf- > nat%402017-11-06.yang >=20 > Unless you have any further comment, I'm planning to submit this version > early next week. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De=A0: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.= de] > > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 1 novembre 2017 11:04 > > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN > > Cc=A0: yang-doctors@ietf.org; draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang.all@ietf.org; > > opsawg@ietf.org > > Objet=A0: Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-06 > > > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 09:55:46AM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > wrote: > > > > > That said, there are a number of details where I doubt > > > > > > the model is correct and things where I believe things are > > incomplete. > > > > > > Given that there are many different NAT functions, I also > expected > > to > > > > > > see usage of YANG features. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We used to make use of "features", but there was a comment > > during > > > > the WG call for adoption that requested us to make use of > identities, > > > > instead. > > > > > > > > But these are not the same thing. > > > > > > [Med] You are right. Sorry for not being clear. > > > > > > What I meant is that the module used, for example, "if-feature nat64" > > and so on to refer to NAT flavors. We replaced those with "when" > > statements that points to the actual capabilities of an implementation. > > > Another change we made, is that we used to have "Boolean" to indicate > > the support of a given tarnation scheme (e.g., nat64-support, nat44- > > support), but we updated those to make use of identities. > > > > I do not recall having seen these when expressions. But even if there > > were when expressions, this does not the same as features. A when > > expression puts a constraint on a valid configuration, a feature > > expresses that not all parts of a model may be implemented. This is > > implementation time partitioning vs. configuration time partitioning. > > > > > If I am not a nat64, then apparently > > > > several objects to not apply to me. > > > > > > [Med] Yes. We tried to cover this by "when" statements. > > > > > > This is what features allow you to > > > > express. Perhaps someone wanted identities for something different, > I > > > > do not know. I think it is reasonable to assume that not all NAT > > > > implementations will support all types of NATs that the model > supports > > > > and hence the model should reflect this. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The module indicates what a given implementation has to support > > based on its capabilities. This is handled by means of "when" > statements. > > > > This seems to be a mis-understanding of what when expressions do. See > > above for the explanation. > > > > > > > > - What is the vrf-routing-instance identity good for? > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This is used to bind a NAT function to an external VRF > routing > > > > instance. Please check https://www.ietf.org/mail- > > > > archive/web/opsawg/current/msg05117.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much doubt that an identity identifies a VRF instance. I am > not > > > > questioning the need to identify a VRF, I am questioning that the > > > > solution put in place achieves this. > > > > > > [Med] Thank you for clarifying. This is actually a good point. The > > options we considered are as follows: > > > > > > (1) Use an Identity to avoid struggling with semantics of how a VRF > can > > be defined. > > > (2) Point to draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model, likely (?) as a normative > > reference. > > > (3) Remove the VRF thing from the draft; future extensions can be > > defined. > > > > > > Given that "VRFs" are not required for all NATs and some reviewers > asked > > to add VRFs in addition to interfaces, we went for option (1). Having a > > dependency on a YANG module under development is not justified for all > > implementations. > > > > > > > But (1) is broken as far as I can tell. You either work out with the > > routing guys how to properly refer to a VRF or you better leave this > > out. > > > > > > If leafs are not configurable, then they should be config false. > > > > > > [Med] I will revert config to false as we used to have in previous > > versions. As I said earlier, pyang will cry. I don't know how to fix > that From nobody Mon Nov 13 19:56:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94183128796 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:56:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AX1yZbvxVvlz for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 422AD1242EA for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id e142so5030823oih.2 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:56:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6zV5mx4EdwkMT2fVYqCOBo8IHwxiLXXSOg4Xx9nhtOA=; b=U2Exj0CXWNrNA0y+G6mdVA2x4WNEO1wM7l/NGxtharT24Z873hYyPDGi0RWsUC1tlS CV/Pzi+67+8ux6DJXt4jTuAX39A9zKc2z1NMoqnte2P64wbYGrbP7SGbgGHr7xrFSkAU VAUsPjp+h7Y0CLwNWQOXBxqBV0UngBr1eF9OC7rt8TL4AxRz3IbwzQenJUdPcqZOtlaL ss0Jw0leYUnnR4ZP09+jbONAO+eFqPIAvjIQpESpxvfUD79+6ej5DSQ+YMlC5PKbZ+0x yyfunjvESfhugfxyOygjFXYcCkimTndYSHCkZWbM6uJ+5m1B4TLjQccdc749s3ne6Ng5 9zlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6zV5mx4EdwkMT2fVYqCOBo8IHwxiLXXSOg4Xx9nhtOA=; b=LdDkuqg0GO34q+PxxCGFmSvg7rw6ACSDH9QLVD4zQKlewwUZXj9nUtnolAAGMNhEhS Cr+sJKnTyQg4o12SAUBBV+JPQ42BNQxIDPjFj4XZXeZpHyMk4Y0CmvUxuyUWmH6BvNs6 qpYV+ML28v8KNaxDslbrxl2gE+ybJP5dSi4CgWClRaXn8BxFvZvw+kr4trNNjgEoSF5y oft++ULuJ/2RroCnz+tPGnY6Yrp/JT+LCL7sqXYlrMsCEkXpcYv832Q8CmLyXxKeayrw eMQbtPchXYfLeFoVz3vU4dqGqu9xon1SOgfXLln2DzarTosiWOj5+Lqp17rUhali+8EZ 4oeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6dBFyRlEHyxqpABM17kXQ96RtxvdN0w8IHjTKFba2Va6S7+YUu pTtMEXBV4yGeaBN4E6hySDVQTLpeqeGzXDYFRpmbxQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZumUZWAgloA0E+uPjcj2SCN0XAkodh/ordMl7Lmo5D9fmI5aWR5rzdtydlGub6fAZIuLt6v6M9jYWsGetXGws= X-Received: by 10.202.94.9 with SMTP id s9mr6599160oib.196.1510631802401; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:56:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.116.90 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:56:21 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Montgomery Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:56:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: opsawg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 03:56:47 -0000 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-13#section-14 The deployment considerations section notes: "Because MUD consists of a number of architectural building blocks, it is possible to assemble different deployment scenarios. One key aspect is where to place policy enforcement. In order to protect the Thing from other Things within a local deployment, policy can be enforced on the nearest switch or access point. In order to limit unwanted traffic within a network, it may also be advisable to enforce policy as close to the Internet as possible. In some circumstances, policy enforcement may not be available at the closest hop." Some side conversation came up yesterday in opsec as to how one can ensure that a MUD ACL is *only* applied to the traffic of the device that emitted the MUD URL? In particular in cases where the ACL can't be placed/bound to a specific device MAC/port on the first hop switch/AP, how do we ensure that the default "deny any" behavior of flows out of profile does not affect other systems. For example the first MUD ACL capable switching / routing device is on the upstream side of a NAT. Likewise, is it required that MUD profiles fully specify source/dest addresses in ACLs so that loosely specified ACLs don't collateral damage to flows from other systems? Is it possible for a piece of malware to emit a MUD URL that purposely gets an ACL applied to systems other than the one that emitted the URL? I am not saying I know this is a problem, it is just a question that came up in side discussions, that I don't know the answer to. At a minimum, saying something in the deployment consideration section about how we protect against accidental / malicious misapplication of MUD-profiles would be useful. -- DougM at NIST From nobody Mon Nov 13 22:33:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68364127337 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:33:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LSnbGng3Rb9I for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13CB012717E for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:33:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2122; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510641229; x=1511850829; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=SuhhHD8Ks96Rq58iGJEr50Bu3l7GvRTMzSS4eVGkS98=; b=jqvO+VKJ0HYFMOSTjQXhBtPxJEy4CwBvzr9auPq7aB+iwyjkeUlCe1UG QhIgLpBJ5kOQsavG1fIP1lmFDn3ZDZvhZM9lEqGIY9EwJ8b/30NEN9MHl ELZyAzqamRSX08opM9CkWl5lB9zs5ZK/ae35WrJnzi7CHwys+h4rp0/BG U=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CVAQC8jQpa/5tdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM2gVKEJZlOgX2WUIIRBwOFOwKEZkEWAQEBAQEBAQEBayiFHwE?= =?us-ascii?q?FI2YJAhgqAgJXBgEMCAEBih6NTJ1ogieLEQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEBARIPgzSCB?= =?us-ascii?q?4NngwGFBYMngmMFknyPMYRHgiSOGoF8igGHRZYogTkmAy6BcjQhCB0Vgy6EazS?= =?us-ascii?q?JEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,393,1505779200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="31070696" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Nov 2017 06:33:45 +0000 Received: from [10.70.233.66] ([10.70.233.66]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAE6XiUb000685; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:33:44 GMT To: Doug Montgomery , opsawg@ietf.org References: From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:33:11 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="obngwoSDubToVJq8hGMn0XDEoRphLgoIo" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:33:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --obngwoSDubToVJq8hGMn0XDEoRphLgoIo Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="c7e7BLWNdtpIiCjggpcSJ1P8Qcod1jm11"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Doug Montgomery , opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides References: In-Reply-To: --c7e7BLWNdtpIiCjggpcSJ1P8Qcod1jm11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi Doug, On 11/14/17 11:56 AM, Doug Montgomery wrote: > Is it possible for a piece of malware to emit a MUD URL that purposely > gets an ACL applied to systems other than the one that emitted the > URL? I would say, =E2=80=9Cit depends=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 If you have either a por= t- or session-based mechanism at L2 and below, then it is possible to keep one device from speaking for another.=C2=A0 Similarly, if a device is purported to have CHANGED its MUD URL, then I would be suspicious, especially if that device is appearing to be something completely different from what it was= =2E Eliot --c7e7BLWNdtpIiCjggpcSJ1P8Qcod1jm11-- --obngwoSDubToVJq8hGMn0XDEoRphLgoIo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJaCo4nAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozFwwH/0YNeEoEA2wwyPxZIxTUGL7F ct74qBMYr36QGOv3C5OZxwz9C1/tp4PHGWCZ0Ds9t5D2zTUzu2KfQJplRbsOk4JE hNEswtb2uU5jTcV0CDKyUidG0cWOdYdYHBkZLT8GKEHRDmctP/4ZWqgpK3KzCSuI Wdxp1NSPjxN5F9wRhNaCKQAqGbuw+n68YJSQKmyQ0MOmtfpYxt6SwclNhufn5834 44s+VeR3Dqq6JNMMQYzdEDGJEDxEQ48+eyiPVgzGzaA9By4dDIbyKClXTRM6qEZ7 H4D7cOkkedIJ4sYOp+u00sujKG3CfRkTMgIx8rAP7PZ4vwCACk4lGDc9aRd9xag= =3aQl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --obngwoSDubToVJq8hGMn0XDEoRphLgoIo-- From nobody Mon Nov 13 23:20:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F31128961 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j4trPH7BREwK for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x233.google.com (mail-ot0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B609E1294AB for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x233.google.com with SMTP id s12so9489353otc.0 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q//GduBxuZLf+XGKd29RT0/0GwY61hQDia8ygY4hhoo=; b=eQaJqVWDW2dNhplkbdmZDvBlikzsvI6VVvVZHYrfZyGXvF+adYrIZl4ekYrPJiixMG w2iYN8baHEHOrPuyPJNYNd74KuP7659T4/QVyZ1+DYX+s6s0YukVIs1h10oikTYnqBQw SmxbQM+Tcwc+Hpi5/KsAkXyzPkcqG4/rcPW7r3xf1GWRf7NzGj+yJPlc5eorwqUStAym CxOsH/AJChrMSr1ePnHBCVGHWb3w3AQd/RGxtlHUBSM/uPnHTSC4KIJhM6RcmGjHxn11 +8ld1+ImwM9KonuRze1O6CyPq6PhrP3Eqt2x09+4zARCTV/Y8RVcX/bAZMMK6wRcIxED ftnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q//GduBxuZLf+XGKd29RT0/0GwY61hQDia8ygY4hhoo=; b=UYfcyQdFamCL98RpLv4xI7zAf3P20znafK0nEvz8RXJUSLbiHISS97umbkHq3rn17K 7f3jzbEsH+zjNwrlnEW2sUVdaBJxIkl4NIFYCd3zpjD70snEd4jF2OEqS6YPZbcSZUiz wdbwmW5pl2b8g4XGzPt1RCPNEg2Nn32WsO4G25ei+ClsOw/QWL4oxLypqdcw0Qd1h2SA gtSekns/Y5wYA2mIvwTfQ+pko31GQLTeXRYiktd8GQURHt8H5kwrkSQcLvpIEeytDGdG p3X1khZRUrhW3kON3R/VMUgewnL/7k1S0GVime5HhK6jfvZ6cNkNma0cJONk1zgmu56d 3YmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5flKFkf79hWQxVdL3fRuly21v+aZeQSzmsSSoNivz+tCZdJ8Ei ycmq+Ps15eURsZ/KkL3sV37YEHtq7sQdnESc24w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbSCf0Z0SrmK+Ej0fEZA42w4VbTXi7Re31aY5AiF6s0gPRbqpqBfRcbrNnVI4pwJATVbuv0vsOrwua9Xq4+L9k= X-Received: by 10.157.48.175 with SMTP id s47mr7716619otc.497.1510644037042; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.116.90 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> References: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> From: Doug Montgomery Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: opsawg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:20:51 -0000 Hi Eliot, I think there is a subtle/difficult semantic here that each MUD ACL is designed to be strictly bound to a particular end device. If the content of the specific ACL is capable of unambiguously establishing that binding no matter where it is deployed topologically, then you are OK. If you can't establish that unambiguous binding, or if you can make the binding ambiguous on purpose, there might be an issue. So, I don't think the issue is one device spoofing another at L2 etc. Let's say I have a CPE that supports MUD controlled ACLs but I have a switch behind that, that does not support MUD ACLs. There are two things attached to that second switch. Thing2 has some malware on it that is willing to emit a MUD URL to a purposely malicious MUD profile that effectively tries to block all outbound traffic (src =3D 192.168.*.*, dst =3D any, action =3D drop). Is there something in the design that stops malicious thing2 from doing thi= s? The idea that the network operator will inspect all of these by non-automated means doesn't seem to scale well with the assumption that the number and variety of devices will be very large. If the network operator is the home user, I don't think this will scale for other reasons. dougm On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi Doug, > > > On 11/14/17 11:56 AM, Doug Montgomery wrote: >> Is it possible for a piece of malware to emit a MUD URL that purposely >> gets an ACL applied to systems other than the one that emitted the >> URL? > > I would say, =E2=80=9Cit depends=E2=80=9D. If you have either a port- or= session-based > mechanism at L2 and below, then it is possible to keep one device from > speaking for another. Similarly, if a device is purported to have > CHANGED its MUD URL, then I would be suspicious, especially if that > device is appearing to be something completely different from what it was= . > > Eliot > --=20 DougM at Work From nobody Mon Nov 13 23:47:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45053129481 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:47:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R3mx0djKwXEY for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:47:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from bgl-iport-1.cisco.com (bgl-iport-1.cisco.com [72.163.197.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EA94126C23 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:47:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3093; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510645637; x=1511855237; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=WN2T4N+q/3XFffbEXwixH9alzlJqQmGiCu3n7MDQe9o=; b=d8hN9i+3YKx7eDhZf6/u/6vPr5xx2JhPumfU6ljjGmXTxmMTQN9KG9/0 5/0bVNI+37GdnGnV8JWUvB6/jEA5cfM2HroyhjIZRewpqQPbqwMJYjR2p 1WzRjZ/7LeI/YbuGeim5E4+UgV349jsJvVkxnqb38YxwiVU8PV0H1qrL2 Q=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B0AQAungpa/xjFo0hbGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYUIhCWLE5ASJpZQghEHA4U7AoUnFgEBAQEBAQEBAWsohR8BBSM?= =?us-ascii?q?EUhALGCoCAlcGDQgBAYoeqy+BbTqLEQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEQD4M0h?= =?us-ascii?q?W4LgnaILIJjBZJ8jzGER4IkjhqLfYdFliiBOSYJKIFyNCEIHRWDLoRrNIkQAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?B?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,393,1505779200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="78764581" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-2.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Nov 2017 07:47:14 +0000 Received: from [10.70.233.66] ([10.70.233.66]) by bgl-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAE7lClH029930; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:47:13 GMT To: Doug Montgomery Cc: opsawg@ietf.org References: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:46:33 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2So0AHWC7S5MqE6inIlRG7h30wj8w3OQB" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:47:19 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --2So0AHWC7S5MqE6inIlRG7h30wj8w3OQB Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RCwhCTWbhxr79ijl1KtnIr870sq0GBTQa"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Doug Montgomery Cc: opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides References: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: --RCwhCTWbhxr79ijl1KtnIr870sq0GBTQa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi Doug, On 11/14/17 3:20 PM, Doug Montgomery wrote: > Hi Eliot, > > I think there is a subtle/difficult semantic here that each MUD ACL is > designed to be strictly bound to a particular end device. If the > content of the specific ACL is capable of unambiguously establishing > that binding no matter where it is deployed topologically, then you > are OK. This is the role of the MUD controller.=C2=A0 The MUD ACL refers, if you will, to This-> or Me.=C2=A0 The MUD file doesn't get to specify who This= -> or Me is.=C2=A0 The controller's job is to fill that in with the device's= information, and to scope the policy to that device. I think this might be worth making more clear. > > If you can't establish that unambiguous binding, or if you can make > the binding ambiguous on purpose, there might be an issue. > > So, I don't think the issue is one device spoofing another at L2 etc. > > Let's say I have a CPE that supports MUD controlled ACLs but I have a > switch behind that, that does not support MUD ACLs. There are two > things attached to that second switch. Thing2 has some malware on it > that is willing to emit a MUD URL to a purposely malicious MUD profile > that effectively tries to block all outbound traffic (src =3D > 192.168.*.*, dst =3D any, action =3D drop). > > Is there something in the design that stops malicious thing2 from doing= this? Does the above address your point? Eliot --RCwhCTWbhxr79ijl1KtnIr870sq0GBTQa-- --2So0AHWC7S5MqE6inIlRG7h30wj8w3OQB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJaCp9ZAAoJEIe2a0bZ0noz7AIIAJvrFDAO7P5ol7zBbed3J4KZ /p457EFpJkZtoHSwi4Q99Rn0GafqDfA/vWS0rRL+h4dhQj4zx5sh7tWaneFWmxbT 1AGjaXvpQmN+QTBNI4pO9n5L0Dl8sjMj1/BQdij4181VtN0X8zq88ZTcWxVCqSS3 ej5gjlibSyGMcsQoP3HnjuuR33F6SI7HB2yJmjyWUQW8Q0iV+P1D13iErmwR2kXf 0/9jsR9mtCJU3VNNMBhZTp8AFP0ojrSR2djIWZW2u2+H5xREHKfGfQ5+ua+S+8ue VhCzQc+vd866J5kqoEyUpD/Kf3yyA3lpQNDJS31a1Q/HefBeyQ6V8mQN90lqKrs= =8AEW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2So0AHWC7S5MqE6inIlRG7h30wj8w3OQB-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 01:52:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F065128D8B for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:52:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j6_wXQmlQAI3 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x22c.google.com (mail-oi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AD3C1293EC for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id e142so5481969oih.2 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:52:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fZNfCPmkQnHKLnN1aJgz+RzkWTGbv1DcPc/nvzeuuhY=; b=OoB+JKQYE9Dzx3y+fwQXHfBEUTlEp06A7QAJjp5GCiAzq6ngwwvTaDU1qXHRCIft2k LzdoJzgAaS3MWRmEHgLifJxABnVx4VLXJkIuATxk8ljNavTivc6dpYEUyizyqLYpG8Bk 5lI/FiwEvR7plq7mSCywlFsKWiTGALPje7w2j76xlGJz72JQkE+1yR3eigybrXCWF0e+ jcUW3Evlw5vF3qJ+NXkZZev1zGyKraC192bGull3k8/+g6bnPPkftCvbGhwmswDNpdmA nllYd+1XZywtmMFXeWQvdwRoxHdc8NllNebLIxWy0UVBYKHDDdJdsKMWGMO/j5LhwntG tpZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fZNfCPmkQnHKLnN1aJgz+RzkWTGbv1DcPc/nvzeuuhY=; b=mmtW1D2bx5fP3HVyJ+eAdI4AWoSR4gkTpPieY9o3yc+KSkvALLhs38BosY+XAsEbj0 qyd2jik/fI4MbXisbedbULBLMOkM0ypBjdP+TfWINDS+BjmlB4TTAlmib4i6kmOrI6vm LGv6wCfzjkRMrhDGpK6AMQ59G3ayTFkgSDubmH/8PyP5yDzkbwon+DfAvr5B8bQpmUnd j3hRwTY0oSllZWGn8z/nLERqm2rjB5aORY95h9UVwfcbRLPecHq0QeT4/KYqy0HvxbYs VMHDW+4WZWIn0l7hEB2RNEMqvDH/07xilUnVZeBiiDErlSCq//iwKhrKx9WbZ/Z/AX5L umJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6ohAvS7/rFYM3cvPQ/o+pzbr+Fcvx5l1yW1G7HpFCQwYNqfEgl WKpfYJ2AxGwwgek90uqKG71fLlpyutAu2eoM9g0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbgZcHzf+31c1iNM9WuNFWgo5ZMy7EwgJ6Ttmrpb0qfpJELmGaEA1gdJXfBeirCRsTTT13tz3Oa9p19XOghPGM= X-Received: by 10.202.245.204 with SMTP id t195mr2056803oih.304.1510653144636; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:52:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.116.90 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:52:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> From: Doug Montgomery Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 04:52:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: opsawg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:52:26 -0000 Eliot, No actually, it seems to reduce the problem to an unspecified function. I get the late/local binding of various components of the MUD ACL. We are prototyping a controller, so we need to figure these gory details. If we assume every switch is MUD ACL capable, we can bind MUD ACLs to specific ports/MACs. If they are not, and if the first MUD capable switch is upstream of a NAT, it becomes unclear how to stop erroneous or malicious MUD profiles from potentially having unintended effects. Maybe we should link up and talk about it. dougm On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:46 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi Doug, > > > On 11/14/17 3:20 PM, Doug Montgomery wrote: >> Hi Eliot, >> >> I think there is a subtle/difficult semantic here that each MUD ACL is >> designed to be strictly bound to a particular end device. If the >> content of the specific ACL is capable of unambiguously establishing >> that binding no matter where it is deployed topologically, then you >> are OK. > > This is the role of the MUD controller. The MUD ACL refers, if you > will, to This-> or Me. The MUD file doesn't get to specify who This-> > or Me is. The controller's job is to fill that in with the device's > information, and to scope the policy to that device. > > I think this might be worth making more clear. >> >> If you can't establish that unambiguous binding, or if you can make >> the binding ambiguous on purpose, there might be an issue. >> >> So, I don't think the issue is one device spoofing another at L2 etc. >> >> Let's say I have a CPE that supports MUD controlled ACLs but I have a >> switch behind that, that does not support MUD ACLs. There are two >> things attached to that second switch. Thing2 has some malware on it >> that is willing to emit a MUD URL to a purposely malicious MUD profile >> that effectively tries to block all outbound traffic (src = >> 192.168.*.*, dst = any, action = drop). >> >> Is there something in the design that stops malicious thing2 from doing this? > Does the above address your point? > > Eliot > > -- DougM at Work From nobody Tue Nov 14 06:57:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D64124C27 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:57:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANwThsdyRZrr for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81D48124D6C for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:57:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3971; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510671448; x=1511881048; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=P20hEvWSAfNpEoBOuQMzlaK9hF0uxwN/UYUiNzCFogg=; b=PLme2a4R/n/BzW2CDPf7j0qYCsCIhNt4GKUGaVywU8q97gwfD4Q+2kPC c45omBzevlb5e+AdDx9CDZaqqojMSUP70BFnU3o93OLGhEU3l4dcP6Puz y2K87LP+kZrJ1SkerCHmoV60wEy0FE2kieMCt91ojQ7X+1g/pk7QHwe5I A=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CQAQB8Awta/4YNJK1SChkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGDNoFShCWbTZZXghEHA4U7AoUAQRYBAQEBAQEBAQFrKIUeAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBI00JBQsLGCoCAlcGDQgBAYoXCKsdgieLEwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBE?= =?us-ascii?q?g+DNIIHg2cLgnaEbYNAgmMFkwKGGokYhEeCJY4ai32HRZYrgTkmAi+BczQhCB0?= =?us-ascii?q?Vgy6EazSJOgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,395,1505779200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="320499695" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 14 Nov 2017 14:57:26 +0000 Received: from [10.70.233.66] ([10.70.233.66]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAEEvPEv030830; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:57:26 GMT To: Doug Montgomery Cc: opsawg@ietf.org References: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:56:38 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iJD4tWOmbUdoiva4xfU71mrfkumIW0rWR" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:57:30 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iJD4tWOmbUdoiva4xfU71mrfkumIW0rWR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IcHBLlSjhD4tm2qkPgXWG1GQ8uLxfjCAX"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Doug Montgomery Cc: opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Preventing MUD slides References: <1b30d6fc-b559-f558-f382-ef2920cd42a2@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: --IcHBLlSjhD4tm2qkPgXWG1GQ8uLxfjCAX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi Doug, On 11/14/17 5:52 PM, Doug Montgomery wrote: > Eliot, > > No actually, it seems to reduce the problem to an unspecified > function. I get the late/local binding of various components of the > MUD ACL. I think you get how to fill in those functions in a great number of cases, especially for consumer.=C2=A0 So for instance... > > We are prototyping a controller, so we need to figure these gory > details. If we assume every switch is MUD ACL capable, we can bind > MUD ACLs to specific ports/MACs. Yes.=C2=A0 Or if you can do session management for wireless you are in reasonably good shape as well. > If they are not, and if the first > MUD capable switch is upstream of a NAT, it becomes unclear how to > stop erroneous or malicious MUD profiles from potentially having > unintended effects. I never seriously considered trying to implement MUD across a NAT.[*] The principle here is that you really must have a means to identify the packet flow with a particular end point.=C2=A0 This is simplest when all packets flowing through a given point are for that end point.=C2=A0 It is= harder when you are dealing with a single shared medium.=C2=A0 And it is imperfect =E2=80=93 to say the least =E2=80=93 if one is attempting to pr= event east-west infection, although you can still provide some protection north/south.=C2= =A0 To deploy north of a NAT one could consider flowing all traffic in the home over a softwire, but that has its own attendant headaches with efficiencies, latency, and jitter if you are also intending to address east/west. Another way of looking at it is this: MUD does not create new in-path mechanism.=C2=A0 However, if you can spec= ify a static policy somehow on an enforcement point, then it should be "MUDable" in some form.=C2=A0 MUD just provides a vehicle to specify the configuration of, say, iptables or IOS/JunOS config or the like. Eliot > > Maybe we should link up and talk about it. Would be delighted. Eliot [*] Set the WayBack Machine to the 1990s and you would find an earlier version of Eliot writing RFC 1627 and screaming "NAT is Evil", and so this is a throwback to that ;-) --IcHBLlSjhD4tm2qkPgXWG1GQ8uLxfjCAX-- --iJD4tWOmbUdoiva4xfU71mrfkumIW0rWR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJaCwQnAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozzxgH/i3qMOf9SmexIYQHxv23MzKO aFQRtz9S62DCUHvBt43apEAZOcaWo+KvMuVYKxU9OxZOCAue4J9UqB1vWkJ6I3om tYdJFJAOw3OukiIJ6zAT0AwmkruGnMeW8QdnypfoAUmfaHT3H3ktubJC9sBxjmI+ dFwWVEYZusrLvZWTp8omGneU4khwj+LZeGNLMkgwdh1f3NNVxaaaGjSMldAxyoF0 oUM1F0GMN7Ie/1mAqJLf9zOnMqZng1+Kp/NIezRYajKe2kmtS0f+evGsODdSKthp HEyXjsc8PydaWDa4MHqYPPjpr0Nd7jSqiWmz4cBbnhP/yZ+F6tAHoFFkDLW6+jU= =HEJ8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iJD4tWOmbUdoiva4xfU71mrfkumIW0rWR-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 17:22:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C254129418 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 17:22:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4uwF2GRiSt52 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 17:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99A9512940B for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 17:22:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=125; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510708955; x=1511918555; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=8u2JpK3ElTVzFSOa2O9d90tQyKsn8M/i3qGBXxKCFkg=; b=YQ2p0UWKnv1iqObAU9/eJOtnJLsXtsS78Y/wOYEtCR4NdU+IWZe8FZDx zDvzaLnfeuiNKODO0/QmlRc/iV9dOib+O0vI96qUvqjE2hXau3dTNzKbq iftEgSVPJSpA6octYQibqurwlr1cRzFNEOKaDqEet9RpGJpTEI0nQbOoR M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D6AQAzlgta/40NJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM2gVKEJZlQgVeZDgqKPkMUAQEBAQEBAQEBax0LhUiBCwImAl8?= =?us-ascii?q?NCAEBih+rBYInixYBAQEHAgElgQ+CJYIHgVWCEguCdogtgmMFkwOPMZUGgXwBi?= =?us-ascii?q?gCHRZYrgTk2IYFzVSUVgy6EfCOJIAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,397,1505779200"; d="scan'208";a="31547713" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 15 Nov 2017 01:22:34 +0000 Received: from [10.24.11.192] ([10.24.11.192]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAF1MX3l000788 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:22:34 GMT To: "opsawg@ietf.org" From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:22:32 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] New MUD slides X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:22:36 -0000 Eliot submitted the right slide deck (i.e., what he talked about yesterday). I updated the meeting materials site. Joe From nobody Tue Nov 14 21:40:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC5C128DF2 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:40:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hA8rESmawG9i for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B6D81243F6 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:40:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=237; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510724454; x=1511934054; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=70IAgyWdp8Ukw0q6Z2RnfO9IdGX6UiWI9FAgGlUEYcQ=; b=lqE4QPGQH7CbFoqb/xgxw4Ne5N5980v92jG1Sznj6xjT+TMIf31jYEQE JlerLqcTggJjCdfxT7iVsVtPVntwAZXcv3mrFoVjeVZkp3zKwSfRaXC3+ umBWtArXh/LY3o8Ss7lCCZTmR2WGA5eUs4fwQU+DvwUJafmn7g8TWMMlG 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CpAABx0gta/5tdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM2gVKEJYofjzGYVIIRCoo+PxgBAQEBAQEBAQFrHQuFSIELAiY?= =?us-ascii?q?CXw0IAQEQig+qY4InixoBAQEHAgElgQ+CJYIHgVWCEguCdoEwhn2CQyAFkwOPM?= =?us-ascii?q?YF0kxKBfAEYhgiDYIdFcJU7gTkfOIFzVSUVgy6EfCOJHQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,398,1505779200"; d="scan'208";a="31724577" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2017 05:40:53 +0000 Received: from [10.24.101.203] ([10.24.101.203]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAF5epRd022216 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:40:53 GMT To: "opsawg@ietf.org" From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:40:52 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Request for document shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:40:55 -0000 As Ignas mentioned in yesterday's meeting, we're looking for a document shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community, specifically one who is an operator. If you are interested, please let the chairs know. Thank you. Joe From nobody Tue Nov 14 22:01:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F411294F5 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:01:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aDmLXSzDVFxV for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x22e.google.com (mail-it0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 999B81294F0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id f187so489861itb.1 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:01:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=h6/jXQGdqGzC/eIuCYOGPmfpV8TVxsxAbMMZSHbsVnA=; b=lyMWzZ4l1VP7rAAgHN6q1s5CVyU5O3KMdQXH50gGuEXVnAxujoaQlziidLoTPCMtOu VjRLjzgl3ayajHXh6BbeCss3546bGwDBX8bHVyFWZlcfcOzQWOmqbgQ2I5UCHIC9hZ0S Wb7VRkQU1FIPjmDb7mkBcE8MD1C6oBoAiqphzdCwDJQMJpDQFMuJw4BF0oP3Z6Nyl2tF /amk28s/kVfoKbKkooV9dO6MIWoS4UHBoid5yxjnLtLeUcPzE86EXKDqAu4yaIJST0cW CSO4U8zYj4qm8QWSxzvwkP7DWaqN8QZein6pQhg8KTtDBcJIvraSkMRxmmO3b0WaxhtD 0Amw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=h6/jXQGdqGzC/eIuCYOGPmfpV8TVxsxAbMMZSHbsVnA=; b=aPkXdXmmvaBodxlGFDZ/dOotosgkSLIPfNHB2lgr2qPY97fQ3ww85Mf10LuokriSG6 pM3VVMWPMamLEjfrXzkyZPPS2+O2FaCZh8PGZyI8rTMuNFo9xL1v+JwVnGmxv1uZMkHt Q/vekgM+zvR90Qf22jGPf4p3txBo8nz3sZ/2ATnVGstL5I/+Rq1I6uWziX4Mr1qjucPR z01dMhrxqwlzXc+Bv2eJJ/fMJQqWIgZDRcsxz/AqCL2VDQEtD2djkzOjTdDFI9sMexe2 6NggLPqb0iBJ0MueCUyjOf56uyvUTvRxBeSAZ7YsQqF31zJjUF7sORCMy/4z9Ajz90hV 3XiA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4+lzq1aOM6VBtZ4HglYEhjMoYFoVEKLUwX22nYKg1ORIgyZ5gW 3Zez/OJiymb9iGw9YBXS9jlj1BIg X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYvtqNnhLdxo2uxUCAaaDHWkWUTzSPBQf3XdUnp/vXhAphdSuHFoRmQo/fWBWccn1vp3OXecQ== X-Received: by 10.36.163.200 with SMTP id p191mr16240610ite.27.1510725662726; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [31.133.137.192] (dhcp-89c0.meeting.ietf.org. [31.133.137.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a17sm9473770ioe.55.2017.11.14.22.01.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:01:01 -0800 (PST) To: Joe Clarke , "opsawg@ietf.org" References: From: Ignas Bagdonas Message-ID: <6fa18eea-6a02-0c42-903a-b825097fe0ae@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:00:57 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Request for document shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:01:05 -0000 A clarification addition - it is not a hard requirement for shepherd to be associated with an operator, it is a strong wish though as the document would benefit from being guided through the publication process by someone who would be a potential user of the proposed mechanism. In addition, any other review, especially by potential users of the proposed mechanism would be really appreciated. Thank you Joe for raising this. Ignas On 15/11/2017 05:40, Joe Clarke wrote: > As Ignas mentioned in yesterday's meeting, we're looking for a document > shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community, specifically one who > is an operator. > > If you are interested, please let the chairs know. Thank you. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg From nobody Tue Nov 14 22:33:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D517C1294A2 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.124 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.124 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0GqMOJqmtkBv for ; 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Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:33:26 +0000 Received: from KL1PR0601MB1494.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.152.248.59) by HK2APC01FT053.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.249.8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.178.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:33:26 +0000 Received: from KL1PR0601MB1494.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9cf9:94bc:1d27:7c3d]) by KL1PR0601MB1494.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9cf9:94bc:1d27:7c3d%14]) with mapi id 15.20.0218.015; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:33:26 +0000 From: li zhenqiang To: Ignas Bagdonas , Joe Clarke , opsawg Thread-Topic: Re: [OPSAWG] Request for document shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community Thread-Index: AQHTXdujDwEDbCm1A0qaFDOPGVpy9w== Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:33:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <6fa18eea-6a02-0c42-903a-b825097fe0ae@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; 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SRVR:HK2APC01HT062; x-forefront-prvs: 0492FD61DD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:HK2APC01HT062; H:KL1PR0601MB1494.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_KL1PR0601MB149488CABC8CE73E99F8E8DFFC290KL1PR0601MB1494_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 77bb1bc8-a672-48ef-d41f-08d52bf2c595 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Nov 2017 06:33:25.9336 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK2APC01HT062 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Request for document shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:33:32 -0000 --_000_KL1PR0601MB149488CABC8CE73E99F8E8DFFC290KL1PR0601MB1494_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, chairs. And I will update the draft soon after this busy week. ________________________________ li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com From: Ignas Bagdonas Date: 2017-11-15 14:00 To: Joe Clarke; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Request for document shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-i= pfix-bgp-community A clarification addition - it is not a hard requirement for shepherd to be associated with an operator, it is a strong wish though as the document would benefit from being guided through the publication process by someone who would be a potential user of the proposed mechanism. In addition, any other review, especially by potential users of the proposed mechanism would be really appreciated. Thank you Joe for raising this. Ignas On 15/11/2017 05:40, Joe Clarke wrote: > As Ignas mentioned in yesterday's meeting, we're looking for a document > shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community, specifically one who > is an operator. > > If you are interested, please let the chairs know. Thank you. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg _______________________________________________ OPSAWG mailing list OPSAWG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg --_000_KL1PR0601MB149488CABC8CE73E99F8E8DFFC290KL1PR0601MB1494_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <05872F763AE00945BB3F2FEBB40D820E@apcprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you, chairs. And I will update the draft soon after= this busy week.

li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
 
Date: 2017-11-15 14:00
To: Joe Clarke; <= a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"> opsawg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Request for document shepherd for dr= aft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community
A clarification addition - it is not a hard requirement for shepherd t= o
be associated with an operator, it is a strong wish though as the
document would benefit from being guided through the publication proce= ss
by someone who would be a potential user of the proposed mechanism. In=
addition, any other review, especially by potential users of the
proposed mechanism would be really appreciated.
 
Thank you Joe for raising this.
 
Ignas
 
 
 
On 15/11/2017 05:40, Joe Clarke wrote:
> As Ignas mentioned in yesterday's meeting, we're looking for a do= cument
> shepherd for draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community, specifically = one who
> is an operator.
>
> If you are interested, please let the chairs know.  Thank yo= u.
>
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> OPSAWG mailing list
> OPSAWG@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
 
_______________________________________________
OPSAWG mailing list
OPSAWG@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
--_000_KL1PR0601MB149488CABC8CE73E99F8E8DFFC290KL1PR0601MB1494_-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 23:48:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380D2128BB7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:48:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LIs9F1uOjPvv for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1A861287A0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id A5698120EEF; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:48:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.32]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 85B4560060; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:48:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8924:188:2124:a046%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:48:49 +0100 From: To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "Mahesh Jethanandani (mjethanandani@gmail.com)" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdNeEEwa3+st5dtyQzeLVA1NKw2GhAAVReEAABIs7QA= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:48:48 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B603@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07ACDC@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B603OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] TR: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:48:54 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B603OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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<151082558949.28398.8900743316228456893@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:46:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-09.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 09:46:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for Network Address Translation (NAT) and Network Prefix Translation (NPT) Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Senthil Sivakumar Christian Jacquenet Suresh Vinapamula Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-09.txt Pages : 97 Date : 2017-11-16 Abstract: For the sake of network automation and the need for programming Network Address Translation (NAT) function in particular, a data model for configuring and managing the NAT is essential. This document defines a YANG module for the NAT function. NAT44, Network Address and Protocol Translation from IPv6 Clients to IPv4 Servers (NAT64), Customer-side transLATor (CLAT), Stateless IP/ ICMP Translation (SIIT), Explicit Address Mappings for Stateless IP/ ICMP Translation (SIIT EAM), and IPv6 Network Prefix Translation (NPTv6) are covered in this document. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" "RFC XXXX: A YANG Data Model for Network Address Translation (NAT) and Network Prefix Translation (NPT)"; "reference: RFC XXXX" The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 17 16:54:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 2F997120725; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:54:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E675D128B27; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:54:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Xa389JMUijx; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg20.ericsson.net (usplmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3410120725; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:54:28 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-8d7ff70000004288-ec-5a0f84c30677 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usplmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FF.A4.17032.4C48F0A5; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 01:54:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB104.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.121]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 19:54:27 -0500 From: Meral Shirazipour To: "draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 Thread-Index: AdNgB6yY9jj5oPXlSxirD4NdewN5IQ== Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:54:26 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ABCAA4EF18F17B4FB619EA93DEF7939A4F639544eusaamb104erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO6RFv4og597hSyWzp7GbnH11WcW ByaPJUt+MgUwRnHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlfLnyl7lgvVbF9OlL2RoYD6h2MXJySAiYSDybtIW1 i5GLQ0jgCKNEw5bnbBDOciDn7WUWkCo2AQuJ7b+fg1WJCDQxShw5epwRJCEs4CTxcPZONhBb RMBdYtqu54wQtp7E0UunwJpZBFQlZjyexwxi8wr4Skw7+IEVxGYUEJP4fmoNE4jNLCAucevJ fCaIkwQkluw5zwxhi0q8fPyPFcJWkpi09ByQzQFUny9x4Wg6xEhBiZMzn7BMYBSchWTSLISq WUiqIEp0JBbs/sQGYWtLLFv4mhnGPnPgMROy+AJG9lWMHKXFBTm56UYGmxiBoX5Mgk13B+P9 6Z6HGAU4GJV4eHcX80cJsSaWFVfmHmKU4GBWEuGdsZwvSog3JbGyKrUoP76oNCe1+BCjNAeL kjjvGU/eKCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUIpgsEwenVAOjSqHszoBWR53e8nwbP4/AXD8xxqPXv3172+zQ y/jV59WcvUwxATksV+JV7kaszdVVnfGidZPrOq0Z3XLNv7sXF2Xd7n7i18BQMTl61uzbagml R17Eh3VzJho9327Q7BiQ2v+24HlNXuUjU67uhHPc93sn71HLV+T7pPKa82KDcob6TOk5x5RY ijMSDbWYi4oTAaUIoCdxAgAA Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171118005434.2F997120725@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:54:34 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:54:34 -0000 --_000_ABCAA4EF18F17B4FB619EA93DEF7939A4F639544eusaamb104erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review = Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for t= he IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call c= omments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 Reviewer: Meral Shirazipour Review Date: 2017-11-17 IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-04 IESG Telechat date: NA Summary: This draft is ready to be published as Informational RFC. Major issues: Minor issues: Nits/editorial comments: -[Page 33], Section 6, "inlcudes"---->"includes" -[Page 34], Section 6.2, "soltuions"---->"solutions" -[Page 35], typo "7.1. Effect of Encypted ACKs"--->"7.1. Effect of Encryp= ted ACKs" -[Page 37], Section 7.3, point 3 is empty. -Please change the few occurrences of "middle box" to "middlebox" Best Regards, Meral --- Meral Shirazipour Ericsson Research www.ericsson.com --_000_ABCAA4EF18F17B4FB619EA93DEF7939A4F639544eusaamb104erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. T= he General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being proc= essed by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments jus= t like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at <http= ://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

 

 

Document: draft-mm-wg-effect-en= crypt-13

Reviewer: Meral Shirazipour

Review Date: 2017-11-17

IETF LC End Date:  2017-12-04

IESG Telechat date: NA

 

Summary:

This draft is ready to be published as Informational= RFC.

 

Major issues:

Minor issues:

Nits/editorial comments:

-[Page 33], Section 6, "in= lcudes"---->"includes"

-[Page 34], Section 6.2, "= soltuions"---->"solutions"

-[Page 35], typo "7.1.  Effect of Encypted= ACKs"--->"7.1.  Effect of Encrypted ACKs"

-[Page 37], Section 7.3, point 3 is empty.

-Please change the few occurrences of “middle = box” to  “middlebox”

 

Best Regards,

Meral

---

Meral Shirazipour

Ericsson Research

www.ericsson.com

--_000_ABCAA4EF18F17B4FB619EA93DEF7939A4F639544eusaamb104erics_-- From nobody Fri Nov 17 23:43:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 951E41200C1; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 23:43:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36E2E126B72; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 23:43:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ajRfO9eeHHr; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 23:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B31021200C1; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 23:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vAI6P7vM010697; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 01:34:35 -0500 Received: from tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (sbcsmtp3.sbc.com [144.160.112.28]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2eaeg4s41v-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 18 Nov 2017 01:34:35 -0500 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAI6YYtf022547; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:34:34 -0600 Received: from dalint02.pst.cso.att.com (dalint02.pst.cso.att.com [135.31.133.160]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAI6YW5Z022542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:34:32 -0600 Received: from clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (clpi183.sldc.sbc.com [135.41.1.46]) by dalint02.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Sat, 18 Nov 2017 06:34:23 GMT Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAI6YNCM008009; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:34:23 -0600 Received: from mail-azure.research.att.com (mail-azure.research.att.com [135.207.255.18]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAI6YGtO007804; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:34:16 -0600 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njmtcas2.research.att.com [135.207.255.47]) by mail-azure.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C46E3CAA; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 01:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from njmtexg5.research.att.com ([fe80::b09c:ff13:4487:78b6]) by njmtcas2.research.att.com ([fe80::d550:ec84:f872:cad9%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 01:34:15 -0500 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Meral Shirazipour , "draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 Thread-Index: AdNgB6yY9jj5oPXlSxirD4NdewN5IQAL2l0g Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 06:34:14 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16A@njmtexg5.research.att.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.145.45] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16Anjmtexg5researc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-11-18_03:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1711180092 Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171118074340.951E41200C1@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 23:43:40 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 07:43:40 -0000 --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16Anjmtexg5researc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for your review, Meral, we'll make these changes in -14. regards, Al From: Meral Shirazipour [mailto:meral.shirazipour@ericsson.com] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 7:54 PM To: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org; gen-art@ietf.org Subject: Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 ... Document: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 Reviewer: Meral Shirazipour Review Date: 2017-11-17 IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-04 IESG Telechat date: NA Summary: This draft is ready to be published as Informational RFC. Major issues: Minor issues: Nits/editorial comments: -[Page 33], Section 6, "inlcudes"---->"includes" -[Page 34], Section 6.2, "soltuions"---->"solutions" -[Page 35], typo "7.1. Effect of Encypted ACKs"--->"7.1. Effect of Encryp= ted ACKs" -[Page 37], Section 7.3, point 3 is empty. -Please change the few occurrences of "middle box" to "middlebox" Best Regards, Meral --- Meral Shirazipour Ericsson Research www.ericsson.com --_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16Anjmtexg5researc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for your review, Meral,

we’ll make these changes in -14.

 

regards,

Al

 

From: Meral Sh= irazipour [mailto:meral.shirazipour@ericsson.com]
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 7:54 PM
To: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org; gen-art@ietf.org
Subject: Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13

…

Document: draft-mm-wg-effect-en= crypt-13

Reviewer: Meral Shirazipour

Review Date: 2017-11-17

IETF LC End Date:  2017-12-04

IESG Telechat date: NA

 

Summary:

This draft is ready to be published as Informational= RFC.

 

Major issues:

Minor issues:

Nits/editorial comments:

-[Page 33], Section 6, "in= lcudes"---->"includes"

-[Page 34], Section 6.2, "= soltuions"---->"solutions"

-[Page 35], typo "7.1.  Effect of Encypted= ACKs"--->"7.1.  Effect of Encrypted ACKs"

-[Page 37], Section 7.3, point 3 is empty.

-Please change the few occurrences of “middle = box” to  “middlebox”

 

Best Regards,

Meral

---

Meral Shirazipour

Ericsson Research

www.= ericsson.com

--_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16Anjmtexg5researc_-- From nobody Sat Nov 18 00:52:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id B08251200C1; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B38126C3D; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eVpIl5AHW4nw; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22b.google.com (mail-pf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3140E1200C1; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id m88so3681379pfi.9; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ZVqrewH+nR0ZrPnPLYwythYCHguoEC70kYdIiSqLYck=; b=fzQLZN2VdQdM1I13ODG5yMk7xxb1fRQU21DWnMeXBApLy1vmb+APUcovrRa0W5Kkvr 2kN+bSSXjlrxd/kTuo81YJtf+9wSHJzHgTUTo04fL/7rGMI43jJ3crkkGS+cNyBp4Msf KSL298RwsOT7UQu36v/LdEslBDyGCpEgYaVnHix//u9HzfQodJWlsRq71XvNf2u0jsIt yMo9TYcIlEQBWJ7cR7JtCrFK4sXk7kzTqv9bG7YqGiQYsRJIsRoQOl/RuiByfTKNNUU7 pigcT1CrFbWfVO9XjH7DhMaBDHjY2iWmhV+toY+0T5BYzjfjFtIemo+mk8/lox7QOssQ gsSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ZVqrewH+nR0ZrPnPLYwythYCHguoEC70kYdIiSqLYck=; b=Ac11symbIfil1nBQzmwLDEXQJud7mgGiDl7t4nQun1y1VgQhLU/chaWm3LjvFwlZBk nYIuWyO0YymADEZUkLy8VN46WMgFmvme9Nupond/KzfsrRtK48h1I7SFVZBYNvoSzGbM jgCLPnlugB0cZSE2x1yJEJ3s0RfyaoftfwC+KbgaHJ/MLeWqi27woDu5HTyTebOlvy8+ I8376Ift6RPpu7AhDn9a5M2Vfc6QtaO79Nenp1HAcZXJoYtJZT/oHnX1yB15wKLut/ud Fp96ZeNIYnKQ3+MfePHe+0+aLC6oiEL6NjlO4S/RyMGXj1KGNAHE1HikRsqKGi8kjF03 bIXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4Dz3lWG0OhNGkCYbAsnPU3MkQEy3iGAYqI914Bzook4iQakFQX zMkfLxmRgsGW5lYuEXjgmsBzY5rN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYEonr6vA7Ho8NsXfDrbBKug3pwejTLTZG23FbDa2ABhyk7dz/kOMRiiFQQNxEO7vzcagIH8A== X-Received: by 10.99.120.5 with SMTP id t5mr7545254pgc.138.1510995133465; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.140.101] ([210.176.50.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b127sm8053375pgc.70.2017.11.18.00.52.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-62E27386-F5D4-4952-A5F9-FFBFDF8B78D2 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16A@njmtexg5.research.att.com> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:52:11 +0800 Cc: Meral Shirazipour , "draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <68D75D7A-F4BC-4BD6-817E-F7F43EB78553@gmail.com> References: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF4904B16A@njmtexg5.research.att.com> To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171118085216.B08251200C1@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:52:16 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 08:52:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail-62E27386-F5D4-4952-A5F9-FFBFDF8B78D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sent from my mobile device > On Nov 18, 2017, at 2:34 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrot= e: >=20 > Thanks for your review, Meral, > we=E2=80=99ll make these changes in -14. Yes, thank you for your review, Meral! Kathleen=20 > =20 > regards, > Al > =20 > From: Meral Shirazipour [mailto:meral.shirazipour@ericsson.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 7:54 PM > To: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org; gen-art@ietf.org > Subject: Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 > =E2=80=A6 > Document: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 > Reviewer: Meral Shirazipour > Review Date: 2017-11-17 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-04 > IESG Telechat date: NA > =20 > Summary: > This draft is ready to be published as Informational RFC. > =20 > Major issues: > Minor issues: > Nits/editorial comments: > -[Page 33], Section 6, "inlcudes"---->"includes" > -[Page 34], Section 6.2, "soltuions"---->"solutions" > -[Page 35], typo "7.1. Effect of Encypted ACKs"--->"7.1. Effect of Encry= pted ACKs" > -[Page 37], Section 7.3, point 3 is empty. > -Please change the few occurrences of =E2=80=9Cmiddle box=E2=80=9D to =E2= =80=9Cmiddlebox=E2=80=9D > =20 > Best Regards, > Meral > --- > Meral Shirazipour > Ericsson Research > www.ericsson.com --Apple-Mail-62E27386-F5D4-4952-A5F9-FFBFDF8B78D2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Sent from my mobile device

On Nov 18, 2017, at 2:34 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acmorton@att.com> wrote:

=

Thanks for your review, Meral,

we=E2=80=99ll make these changes in -14.


Yes, thank you for your review, Meral!

Kathleen 

 

regards,

Al

 

From: Meral Shira= zipour [mailto:meral.shira= zipour@ericsson.com]
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 7:54 PM
To: draft-= mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org; g= en-art@ietf.org
Subject: Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13

=E2=80=A6

Document: draft-mm-wg-effect-enc= rypt-13

Reviewer: Meral Shirazipour

Review Date: 2017-11-17

IETF LC End Date:  2017-12-04

IESG Telechat date: NA

 

Summary:

This draft is ready to be published as Informational R= FC.

 

Major issues:

Minor issues:

Nits/editorial comments:

-[Page 33], Section 6, "inlcudes= "---->"includes"

-[Page 34], Section 6.2, "soltui= ons"---->"solutions"

-[Page 35], typo "7.1.  Effect of Encypted ACKs"= --->"7.1.  Effect of Encrypted ACKs"

-[Page 37], Section 7.3, point 3 is empty.=

-Please change the few occurrences of =E2=80=9Cmiddle= box=E2=80=9D to  =E2=80=9Cmiddlebox=E2=80=9D

 

Best Regards,

Meral

---

Meral Shirazipour

Ericsson Research

www.eric= sson.com

= --Apple-Mail-62E27386-F5D4-4952-A5F9-FFBFDF8B78D2-- From nobody Mon Nov 27 10:57:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722321292FC for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:57:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2k6HuIA5pFr1 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x230.google.com (mail-wr0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 013141292CE for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x230.google.com with SMTP id k18so22504252wre.1 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:57:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=A6A1EZT4NITyH4SFfx9/5As0P67Mt/d8+DbVShmETp0=; b=UrD5WXV+5rYrAr/QxeXaylM1oY5MGJkTSKi6Sx58BIrhm9xmijRrohIln54bQmc5E5 k0Ukq3b4PzQqto91BuUTW9gFIJnNRPEA4SATy/yfQkCB6IdMXBMTKPN58JsMol/01Ee0 yVWbgPDTD5xsL9zFxUHmH5F0/8bbyxkDJlCvEsl92Hnkw6yEG0fUEzNhHV9H/T0v2vB5 4JzSgnFY+Ic8Xz26WuWudGW6sYQN891uoHRBjpVbsyHb8owdEECrORjrgiQIC0sFqdTl +tJt2UruRRj+GP6w/TD9YT7uM5fqqEu2nBAX5zMOiFmvRQRzCyhfMC8lDw5LZ/S9Q+7m E9Jw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=A6A1EZT4NITyH4SFfx9/5As0P67Mt/d8+DbVShmETp0=; b=JAeSLfwBhW7qu2Nl85f1ieBK83dcU+BxGthBKjErzFvpvYToueevCOStqK4sQ59XWv WQ+RVDVBEi+6FyjTdjEc1YD/rPjX0r3iE17hdJr+NDMaQl+MYKJxY92BFCQNuXRLqNE2 iqD+UGyIAbu32yuKQWO8T7AGFAqwKixSCL8q4VvUBDp2IoW9ZbHA9MJ5OfN0OZuDGqt6 trXHvRKZ5Y8E5+B0Fv9OgW4+2xVhlA6PKWGBs9NuCFbkkarfxtZSVnYRMopeJAKTNIIf juixIJTzIRX/gkiqjZh4z19YIXcQxf4UI1wyWltxCjur7ZAkrfXhP5SNIiZhWKZRoDi4 WlRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6VhdYRLswmGYteWK7Umz2scfCt69tD8m8PP7ZPt4tN4W7rxLwa xSw3PqK+brhqVu3dfvvOOE1Qff4/4NH7ywOT+3x4NtpStQE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMY4PF5T4ShRJKTi0BIC3bcsKOhgXBIhKamA1+LmJ8uf4mcWY8yJp0STyG0LS7FYVqOMHpgNuVcoftdDnGmhk6I= X-Received: by 10.223.170.4 with SMTP id p4mr4882006wrd.109.1511809021006; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:57:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.160.149 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:56:20 -0800 (PST) From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:56:20 -0500 Message-ID: To: opsawg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Reminder to provide feedback on draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:57:04 -0000 Hi all, Just a reminder that this document was discussed in the OpsAWG / OpsArea meeting and a large number of people said that they would read and provide feedback on this document (hopefully even on the plane back to $origin) -- now would be a good time to provide feedback on the IETF LC if you haven't already. Document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt/ LC announcement: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg17159.html Slides (reminder): https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-opsawg-effects-of-pervasive-encryption-slides/ W -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Wed Nov 29 07:31:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 119EC124D37; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:31:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68881200FC; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:31:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Clarke To: Cc: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151196946679.7944.3160175486224623517@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:31:06 -0800 Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171129153107.119EC124D37@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:31:07 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Opsdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:31:07 -0000 Reviewer: Joe Clarke Review result: Has Nits I have been requested to review draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt for the ops directorate. This document describes the effects of pervasive encryption on operators. The document sets out a rather comprehensive list of network data (in motion and at rest) use cases and explains how encryption will effect each of them. Overall, I feel this document is ready. As someone that has supported networks from a troubleshooting perspective for years, I was especially pleased with the numerous callouts to troubleshooting impacts as well as deficiencies in application logging. To that end, it might be useful to specifically point out where vendors have a role to fill in some of these areas to allow for transit encryption while providing the necessary hooks for operators to manage and troubleshoot their network. Specifically, in many of the troubleshooting scenarios, operators won't be able to provide truly useful tools to their end users unless the vendors provide the right level of visibility. On to some nits. In section 1.1 you use "end user's" where I think you mean "end users'". === Section 2. Today, Snowden is fairly well-known. But as this document lives, maybe the specifics of what he's done may get fuzzy. Perhaps this could do with a reference. === Sections 5.3 and 6.2: you reference the abbreviation SNI before formally defining it. It's more obvious in Section 6.2. From nobody Wed Nov 29 08:22:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 695F5127B57; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39DF9127871; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VEEuuxVbwkqi; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x233.google.com (mail-pl0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F291A127B57; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b12so2373829plm.3; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PWHBhAq6e15AdBqZYucZHunX7TDVAlbxuVmWgI6CsGQ=; b=NU1FN6iwVPxrCvAX77j56zzhMRugAqlWkz1O9mhUdWna8Jpibk0i8ZwEkqM3Sfuf6Q J9o5KC+1myLpPEy5/zn/XVzBbicef4qzrUg92g9u0jjVH3RJa/9lwowh6gwXOfUodJe9 b7sslnXjRvtQrgOvjuPnZK0DEdMX8hYNIoxs/2FmQlXew/y04MXpLpOABYftXOYEWQcH XRq5qSinKfYdmOmZ5LCSa/frCcN5wYZA5JBYl1L4Z7fPn5/MfnPXFp/q2useG1ZKrDbk dFWmeRdYUNb9MWPv43IxjECRMLPifL06ELfRy50jy2cdZr/JLQqxR82jj7TZ8wPb+4KE /GrQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PWHBhAq6e15AdBqZYucZHunX7TDVAlbxuVmWgI6CsGQ=; b=rZV4OHPkGgBkGR44ZyXwk+CN0rgU8A16EIeCrFjM3dBDV1FMHJR4hRLAW98tepbhQ3 yLJsFybdTEduPPLP8hEt0BZvLfUw8LCyXwaEExtDnyVl9LE0V0TBSsRuNs9j+po2At0J lFoZLnbchOaROiC6IqSS7cLxk/4Z4bgIB6WukC228Pwcqf4tDxG8Cauypp2WM8brx2Sn 8FVZAYP0S4p3ckup7pR0Wvyp9Rf0dK5IgaQCQbCYWy9S6CaP+Gho79RjGQ14M1XZM5wP oBvDPoF/9whbZKpIfZgXpi0XWMGn0ngKztD/RZOVOBeUO/rdC9Xg5xX0+Z/a7Erl2oJ1 0Z0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5w3TnsqqcLshscPOK0GZxoAvwoPsGPIN++87UYfirkh3mpigE8 TWqnK1X/ohP5qv0SMbFw6AhXs9RdDmt/OVvVGIQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaY3ayz3F0f3L+7XfZj+19jUQI0CH3rZRoexUnrkJwNFCX8i9h77USGTemXBV/CKgAL/COOYFxahZhOVPDW8kU= X-Received: by 10.84.172.195 with SMTP id n61mr3363663plb.78.1511972524546; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.208 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:21:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <151196946679.7944.3160175486224623517@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151196946679.7944.3160175486224623517@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:21:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joe Clarke Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org, draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171129162206.695F5127B57@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:22:06 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Opsdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:22:06 -0000 Hello Joe, First, thank you for your helpful review. On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Joe Clarke wrote: > Reviewer: Joe Clarke > Review result: Has Nits > > I have been requested to review draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt for the ops > directorate. This document describes the effects of pervasive encryption on > operators. The document sets out a rather comprehensive list of network data > (in motion and at rest) use cases and explains how encryption will effect each > of them. Overall, I feel this document is ready. As someone that has > supported networks from a troubleshooting perspective for years, I was > especially pleased with the numerous callouts to troubleshooting impacts as > well as deficiencies in application logging. > > To that end, it might be useful to specifically point out where vendors have a > role to fill in some of these areas to allow for transit encryption while > providing the necessary hooks for operators to manage and troubleshoot their > network. Specifically, in many of the troubleshooting scenarios, operators > won't be able to provide truly useful tools to their end users unless the > vendors provide the right level of visibility. Do you have suggested text that we could add to address this gap from your experience? > > On to some nits. > > In section 1.1 you use "end user's" where I think you mean "end users'". > > === > > Section 2. Today, Snowden is fairly well-known. But as this document lives, > maybe the specifics of what he's done may get fuzzy. Perhaps this could do > with a reference. > > === > > Sections 5.3 and 6.2: you reference the abbreviation SNI before formally > defining it. It's more obvious in Section 6.2. > Thanks for catching the nits, we will address them. Best regards, Kathleen > -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Wed Nov 29 11:46:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52853126C22; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:46:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel@ietf.org, opsawg-chairs@ietf.org, Tianran Zhou , opsawg@ietf.org, zhoutianran@huawei.com, warren@kumari.net Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <151198481729.7972.10583472312302909306.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:46:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Last Call: (Alternate Tunnel Encapsulation for Data Frames in CAPWAP) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:46:57 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG (opsawg) to consider the following document: - 'Alternate Tunnel Encapsulation for Data Frames in CAPWAP' as Experimental RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-12-13. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) defines a specification to encapsulate a station's data frames between the Wireless Transmission Point (WTP) and Access Controller (AC). Specifically, the station's IEEE 802.11 data frames can be either locally bridged or tunneled to the AC. When tunneled, a CAPWAP data channel is used for tunneling. In many deployments encapsulating data frames to an entity other than the AC (for example to an Access Router (AR)) is desirable. Furthermore, it may also be desirable to use different tunnel encapsulation modes between the WTP and the Access Router. This document defines extension to CAPWAP protocol for supporting this capability and refers to it as alternate tunnel encapsulation. The alternate tunnel encapsulation allows 1) the WTP to tunnel non-management data frames to an endpoint different from the AC and 2) the WTP to tunnel using one of many known encapsulation types such as IP-IP, IP-GRE, CAPWAP. The WTP may advertise support for alternate tunnel encapsulation during the discovery and join process and AC may select one of the supported alternate tunnel encapsulation types while configuring the WTP. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Nov 30 08:51:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 1CBF51279EB; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:50:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6ED21200B9; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:50:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EI1swbBJsFGl; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33DFC1279EB; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:50:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1273; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1512060635; x=1513270235; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RaVBbHmcei1FlC+3QWcAIcitg3E8wMasq45uUbGeFW4=; b=T5+0j3PdncnmRxR4HJrnCaiidSeXAs3e3U6JPI1E5WaU8LBEslB0thOm wJw14Aedf3EgWPJxTM3A+1D/4kQvUk+WsszPNmWtEhR9ZQu0Rc5YMUWgm aWQraEk9E5fPJ848/YcnB2Jan4tVF5QMDBhR+tgKIeh4KQJ6/o1+Z//mc U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D5AQB1NiBa/5FdJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM8gVSEJpkTgX2WdoIRCoU7AoUhQRYBAQEBAQEBAQFrKIUgAQU?= =?us-ascii?q?jDwFGEAsYAgImAgJXBg0IAQGKHqYfgieKZgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBIYEPg?= =?us-ascii?q?jKBZwEhgVaCEoMCiDWCYwWTFI9Hi1+JMowJh0qWRYE6Jg0lgVFMIxWCZIRyI4o?= =?us-ascii?q?6AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,341,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="37981175" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 30 Nov 2017 16:50:34 +0000 Received: from [10.118.87.88] (rtp-jclarke-nitro7.cisco.com [10.118.87.88]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAUGoXgf021698; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:50:34 GMT To: Kathleen Moriarty Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org, draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, IETF References: <151196946679.7944.3160175486224623517@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: <45c14d90-8d3e-c165-54ea-f72dfb282c29@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 11:50:33 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171130165038.1CBF51279EB@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:50:38 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Opsdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:50:38 -0000 On 11/29/17 11:21, Kathleen Moriarty wrote: >> To that end, it might be useful to specifically point out where vendors have a >> role to fill in some of these areas to allow for transit encryption while >> providing the necessary hooks for operators to manage and troubleshoot their >> network. Specifically, in many of the troubleshooting scenarios, operators >> won't be able to provide truly useful tools to their end users unless the >> vendors provide the right level of visibility. > > Do you have suggested text that we could add to address this gap from > your experience? Maybe something along the lines of the following in Section 2.1.2 (or maybe in a section of its own): "Vendors must be aware that in order for operators to better troubleshoot and manage networks with increasing amounts of encrypted traffic, built-in diagnostics and serviceability must be enhanced to provide detailed logging and debugging capabilities that, when possible, can reveal cleartext network parameters. In addition to traditional logging and debugging methods, packet tracing and inspection along the service path will provide operators the necessary visibility to continue to diagnose problems reported both internally and by their customers." Joe From nobody Thu Nov 30 09:15:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 0986E12762F; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CF4126D85; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E7QiZUIkqKSZ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x230.google.com (mail-pl0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7669B12762F; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x230.google.com with SMTP id q7so4637130plk.0; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yP2VWiCvO5eGB0JQ8kuNm0NrxeEjq+wfMB+YpaCnQww=; b=ErY5QqtcjS7H70L0WYlbcbpumVit4A2hXfEFihg1nzIEaURIVCADR/fy9GOT+eGYs2 xYFrhE7kMW6zpoLSfW1MGNHcHHfNHPOyxa0rLWloZ8gjsUaFDSdVU7uL7S8+2MqAhMDr 8hEU6LvfQ8RsqS14bOjT3kKDN+WfdpHyunoZ7IJG/SwZLr7LUPJ7BdYLdSngpgphzY7d t3PNmqvhy96kzT+yyJ/sK21Pq2008Xt2/Ulf0dRyB9Q7bw7DydkwZb3BNORaWcmDLhdn AmoIYj34MIwrg7PYd48hTzlbq2SMv2Hvk39XxczGfqZjoONTJEuXmCDLJV0SnufypAb1 MgEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yP2VWiCvO5eGB0JQ8kuNm0NrxeEjq+wfMB+YpaCnQww=; b=At4wpehpSNGs0hGShGkkQrbPSb308BrmWKRH9nW7vxSjnSqbRuPIMf+QeSYlgCFIvm jLRv6dNDYx/xYhCT7bXWTd+6/9CpuI24wR+mNmx8HBgnLixLai5bdujEIu9KClWPlMWW R/0QAgLwllRchLYXLvE00NxuGyceKOvhsPzzrR/BZJFDplRodfzjCbvJgG3PDtycoi+P 5K0iF03QP3Ewih3L4lWhtNP/f89f4Jkmw5fqquvgIH29/tP1QZMOXd3LW4etfMe1Q61E HXGWFALZQ/HJX9r6UPeT/T0fS6imFAoGahBX9e7aiEvEr9a3UlgigApCNthl2zpjFOvu T66g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4lxkMNbqttxnxw3ctlKhMZKcN9mf0m3/mv+yIfFVS982zJogHE 6Ftip9KZ8CKQ5H3xFgTbPCPoyseUhrFEyIRDUrc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbNQIYWMIUlNg/+KM4jqI7LP18FeYmE6Tv6ypGYxsKHMzPOf7g2S/iaSjoYV5evyCId/0SankHWM9nJaYfsvek= X-Received: by 10.159.197.5 with SMTP id bj5mr3353135plb.219.1512062122816; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.208 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:14:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <45c14d90-8d3e-c165-54ea-f72dfb282c29@cisco.com> References: <151196946679.7944.3160175486224623517@ietfa.amsl.com> <45c14d90-8d3e-c165-54ea-f72dfb282c29@cisco.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:14:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joe Clarke Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org, draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171130171526.0986E12762F@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:15:25 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Opsdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 17:15:26 -0000 On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Joe Clarke wrote: > On 11/29/17 11:21, Kathleen Moriarty wrote: >>> To that end, it might be useful to specifically point out where vendors have a >>> role to fill in some of these areas to allow for transit encryption while >>> providing the necessary hooks for operators to manage and troubleshoot their >>> network. Specifically, in many of the troubleshooting scenarios, operators >>> won't be able to provide truly useful tools to their end users unless the >>> vendors provide the right level of visibility. >> >> Do you have suggested text that we could add to address this gap from >> your experience? > > Maybe something along the lines of the following in Section 2.1.2 (or > maybe in a section of its own): > > "Vendors must be aware that in order for operators to better > troubleshoot and manage networks with increasing amounts of encrypted > traffic, built-in diagnostics and serviceability must be enhanced to > provide detailed logging and debugging capabilities that, when possible, > can reveal cleartext network parameters. In addition to traditional > logging and debugging methods, packet tracing and inspection along the > service path will provide operators the necessary visibility to continue > to diagnose problems reported both internally and by their customers." Thank you, Joe! > > Joe -- Best regards, Kathleen