From nobody Sun Dec 3 13:45:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id C6EDC120726; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 13:44:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808C51200F1; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 13:44:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef To: Cc: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151233748643.11956.6944236669427009804@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 13:44:46 -0800 Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171203214446.C6EDC120726@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 13:44:46 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Secdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 21:44:47 -0000 Reviewer: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef Review result: Ready I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. This Informational document presents the current security and network management practices used in the industry today. The document indicates that these practices will be impacted by the increased use of encryption, and that new protocols development should take this into consideration and balance that with the need for a manageable network. This seems like a useful document that describes what is being done today, to allow the IETF to make an informed decision on new protocols and balance that with the need for network manageability. I do not read it as an endorsement of any of the practices described in the document. The document does not define any new protocol or mechanism, thus the security consideration section seems appropriate to me. Regards, Rifaat From nobody Mon Dec 4 00:15:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF0D126B7E; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:15:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: DraftTracker Mail System To: , , "Paul Hoffman" , , Cc: iesg-secretary@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151237530124.8067.10295504861048167292.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 00:15:01 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Last Call Expired: X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:15:01 -0000 Please DO NOT reply to this email. I-D: Datatracker URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt/ IETF Last Call has ended, and the state has been changed to Waiting for AD Go-Ahead. From nobody Mon Dec 4 08:23:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 91A6B127005; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58001127011 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L0immM05bmet for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C73F127005 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from xsmtp06.mail2web.com ([168.144.250.232]) by mx37.antispamcloud.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtX1-0000jE-Je for draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 17:23:49 +0100 Received: from [10.5.2.49] (helo=xmail11.myhosting.com) by xsmtp06.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1eLtWv-0007Op-PB for draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:23:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 12414 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2017 16:23:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.106]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.56.42.119]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail11.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 4 Dec 2017 16:23:39 -0000 To: IETF Discussion Mailing List , draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org From: Christian Huitema Message-ID: <1ecac9b1-685b-8114-780a-a43425fb167d@huitema.net> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:36 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.232 X-AntiSpamCloud-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-AntiSpamCloud-Username: 168.144.250.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-AntiSpamCloud-Outgoing-Class: unsure X-AntiSpamCloud-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.45) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: EX5BVjFpneJeBchSMxfU5kgmHz4sctef00UcsgQ7AmkXv9krsgRhBn0ayn6qsUc7InBZ12RzAnfB ETrOZYNjIXKaajk3XDi+BsF1NYTF5nIFtwJEKaklq458dUTNtx6IR+LY5l4EANN4WUd5HnoeM+KV se1sVhWabI0/+PN3sIJV0oqgDt6uIMJQLNWWX/KRB+bfTW+b454HxCq7ufMj0Rfa7GIqELSydppa 5kbifgIC1NvRn+j7T0fHK+EYCObH7MRAGzDrX5vlyn263WyGOYm3kXFxT3PHKpC8L4StjnnUsu2q y18x339QKkPSsCd8qYm1YZbquMyFoR+68JBKkLpzkoMxYdXzLXA6u7FSkPwopHkJePa5vhj+wBpE wnMox9537/7rZ2H1fP4wGxurimbdDoD390nzzgliUnnZRwXSYJerErquhGL/2cp9hA/QuwE2OMTk BrZtg8X8uO5vsJEbriqr9OJ0Q12Y+nq43Ic/2Jb+MUDCV6Z92vdi8cBprSOIPpeqwlm2NDGXIJ2x 7EzZocMxxykLGT1vNlQb4p6vMCZUrVb8dd++BYfG4v3eavFSEFJCVa5x+5KM3Be0NPFESLQSQfZd gl/sQ/G8uwnjU7158errn1DgcwsEYqYvwIeHI5VhWw89HlaJa/AU/KJH9gpDv6jo13+Qps1rnPq5 UYG0nUOwrbdRwth2Ejnoo5hht1Ks3FD7ExEhdIjn8G9ODbwqtRFQAnvVuN319tL3BvG2kzL7AmMj LCeAcA+FzF1QICvHHBSqb4cP6T1I6YQ/hHmOD4+jwMtRNY4sTGXrjuU3A3io6xJmD59iFVkb4MTM Ztz8DShTtC4TowvfEhLtWZeURiVG9L3S7c4Siv1wLmjYXDsrLNmsi3x0iMKY8AUy9furwzjHps/+ CPPDQ3xYfFvD6LiJzkt887OWbMmK2SCiMoe+pgv3BDDuAqf1MNMoXoZ6J/pxbfe2VWT2gfY4ocfm Wv3Fe9Iziczdq+A= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine5.antispamcloud.com Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171204162356.91A6B127005@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:23:56 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Christian's review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:23:56 -0000 The high level summary is that draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt version 13 is significantly improved from previous versions, but that the document would benefit a lot from additional work. I am not convinced that the sections on data center and enterprises belong in this specific document - they seem too high level to bring serious information to readers. Maybe stage a separate document to survey enterprise issues in some depth? I also feel that section 7 is way too speculative for a survey document. I have been using the "side by side" feature of the IETF web site to compare the last draft that I reviewed (draft 10) and the current draft (draft 13). That tools shows the high volume of changes and reorganization that happens between these two versions. These changes generally make the document more balanced, and that's a welcomed development. There are however many places where I find that the documents lists controversial techniques without sufficient caveats. I will list some of them in the reminder of this review. The introduction and the summary have been rewritten to clearly place the document in perspective. The previous versions could be read as a plea to stop encrypting traffic so previous management practices could continue. The new introduction makes clear that the IETF needs to prevent pervasive monitoring and improve the users' privacy, and that the goal of the document is to list areas in which current management practice need to evolve, or areas where substitute practices have to be found. I also appreciate the note that "some of=C2=A0 (current management= practices) have been considered controversial from a technical or business perspective or contradictory to previous IETF statements" -- and the implicit implication that the IETF will not attempt to restore all of these. 2.=C2=A0 Network Service Provider Monitoring Section 2, "Network Service Provider Monitoring", has been reorganized to focus on management goals rather than simply provide a list of existing management tools. The description of the trouble shooting tasks in section 2.2 is useful. It makes the point that "application server operators using increased encryption should expect to be called upon more frequently to assist with debugging and troubleshooting", and that could lead to some interesting work in the IETF. There is paragraph at the end of section 2.1.2, Troubleshooting, that states that "the push for encryption by application providers has been motivated by the application of the described techniques." I think that paragraph is misplaced. As far as I can tell, the application providers are first concerned with "content management" techniques that modify=C2=A0= the data stream. Any change of content has the potential to generate bugs that are difficult for the application provider to fix. The second concern is "ossification", when traffic characterization based on inferred features of the application traffic leads to adverse consequences when the application or transport protocols evolve. Neither of those is directly relevant to the "troubleshooting" task. Maybe move that paragraph higher in the document, e.g. in the introduction of section 2? If not that, then maybe move it to section 2.2.2, since one purpose of application encryption is indeed to defeat differential treatment in the network. I find the discussion of load balancers in section 2.2.1 somewhat confusing. It seems to cover three functions: load balancers in data centers, load balancers integrated with the network, and a network management function that tries to maintain proper connectivity to anycast addresses services in the presence of mobility. It might be useful to move the discussion of "classic" load balancers to section 3, and to discuss the problem of anycast continuity in a separate subsection. The anycast discussion seems to assume that the network operator alone has to deal with the supposed inadequacies of the application providers. It seems obvious that this problem would be much better solved by improved handling of mobility in content distribution networks, rather than by some complex machinery in the network itself. This might need to be stated. Section 2.2.2 on Deep Packet Inspection could state that it is very often possible to classify traffic based on analysis of the encrypted data. Audio stream, video streams and web traffic have very different signatures, even when encrypted. At the same time, it should also note that many application providers are actively working to defeat the "unilateral" traffic classification enabled by these techniques, complementing encryption with various techniques like multiplexing or padding. We could well observe an arms race between more powerful network based analysis and smarter application hiding. The discussion of performance enhancing proxies in section 2.2.3 states that "This optimization at network edges measurably improves real-time transmission over long delay Internet paths or networks with large capacity-variation (such as mobile/cellular networks)." This is not a consensual statement. Operators do indeed hope that deploying such proxies will improve performance, but independent measurements have shown that such proxies often in fact degrade performance. The studies that show improvement tend to be based on old network technologies, or on ancient TCP stacks. If the authors want to keep a statement like that, they should add references to actual measurements. At a minimum, the text should note that many application providers disagree with the assessment presented here, and that the development of encrypted transports such as QUIC is largely motivated by the desire to mitigate the negative effects of such "performance-dehancing" proxies. The discussion of caching in section 2.2.5 correctly states the tension between network usage and application control. It could also state the inherent privacy risk associated with network based caches: they will provide a log of which users accessed what cached content. There is a reference to draft-thomson-http-bc-01, but as far as I know the authors have abandoned it, in part because they could not solve the related privacy issues. In any case, that draft expired several month ago, and the reference is probably not appropriate. In section 2.3.3, Application Layer Gateways, I was wishing it would say something about IPv6. But then of course most IPv6 deployments today involve a form of NAT64... Section 2.3.4 documents the "HTTP Header Insertion" technique. The relation between that technique and "Network Service Provider Monitoring" is unclear -- header insertion is certainly not a network monitoring tool. It is also a highly controversial tool, as documented for example in https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/7/11173010/verizon-supercookie-fine-1-3-m= illion-fcc. I wonder whether it is appropriate to describe this at all in a document dedicated to network management, and my simple suggestion would be to just remove that section altogether. Failing that, the text needs to be modified to note the controversial nature of the process, and its impact on privacy. The authors could also note that the function could be trivially implemented in the client's browsers if it was really needed and approved by the users. There is no technical need to have anything like that "in the network". 3.=C2=A0 Encryption in Hosting SP Environments After examining network monitoring in section 2, the draft continues with an analysis of "Hosting SP Environments" in section 3, and section 4 describes "Encryption for Enterprises". I assume that the initials SP stand for "Service Provider" -- spelling it out would not hurt. I really wonder whether these sections belong in the document at all, rather than being published in separate documents. "Hosting Service Provider Environments" appears to be a subset of the general "Data Center" problem. It is true that some network providers also provide data center services for their customers, but these network providers represent only a small fraction of the service hosting industry. Similarly, some network providers provide services to enterprises, but there is a wide variety of enterprises. It is hard to believe that the authors of an individual draft have authority to speak at the same time about network services, data centers, and enterprises. In my opinion, it would be simpler to just excise section 3 and 4 from this draft, and use the content as input for specific drafts describing issues in data centers and enterprises. In any case, I am puzzled by the reference to Data Loss Prevention (DLP) in the introduction of section 3.1. Data exfiltration is indeed a security issue, but I knew it primarily as an issue in enterprise networks. It does indeed become an issue in data centers when an enterprise application is hosted outside the data center, but it is a bit strange to see the first reference there. I already suggested to move section 3 and 4 out to a different document. Failing that, I would suggest reversing the order of section 3 and 4, i.e., discuss enterprise issues first and data center issues next. The discussion of Customer Access Monitoring in section 3.1.1 is a bit strange. Most applications control customer access based on the customer identity, not based on the IP addresses of the customer -- the whole point of the "cloud" is that applications can be accessed from anywhere. Some applications do perform additional checks, mainly as a defense against stolen credentials, and would attempt to block access if the network location does not look plausible for this specific user. These are useful techniques, but the relation with encryption of data is somewhat thin. It seems to reinforce my point that data center issues would best be discussed in a separate document. The reminder of section 3 appears to be a high level tutorial on the operation of data centers. It is not clear that there is a particular problem with encryption there. Indeed, I note that a lot of operators of big data centers, such as for example AWS, Azure or Google, have voluntarily pushed for increased used of encryption. I don't learn much by reading these sections, and I question whether they belong in the draf= t. 4.=C2=A0 Encryption for Enterprises The discussion on encryption in enterprises would probably benefit from input by a variety of enterprise network managers. I found the discussion somewhat hard to read. It seems that the authors want to tackle three issues: the enterprise as a target for security attacks, the enterprise as an application provider, and the enterprise as a network provider. These are discussed in sections 4.1.1, 4.1.2, and 4.1.3.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The description of attacks in 4.1.1 is somewhat high level. It starts from the statement that "A significant portion of malware hides its activity within TLS or other encrypted protocols" to draw a requirement to monitor encrypted traffic, when in practice there are many other monitoring points, from endpoint monitoring to data base activity logs to logs at network authentication servers -- as stated in the last paragraph of the section. The monitoring of application performance in enterprises appears strangely focused on the "IPv6 Destination Option Header (DOH) implementation of Performance and Diagnostic Metrics (PDM)". I understand that most big applications solve their monitoring need by implementing some form of telemetry, which is not affected at all by encryption, yet I see no mention of this telemetry approach in the discussion. I had a hard time reading section 4.1.3, Enterprise Network Diagnostics and Troubleshooting. It seems to cover a variety of techniques meant to monitor application services without actually instrumenting the application, and as such is not very convincing. The meat of section 4 appears to be in section 4.2, which is covering the issue of data loss prevention, and generally detection of data exfiltration. Again, this is an issue that would be worth a specialized draft. 5.=C2=A0 Security Monitoring for Specific Attack Types Looks fine, and this review is already very long. 6.=C2=A0 Application-based Flow Information Visible to a Network Do we need this section at all? It seems that most of the information could be captured by adding a small subsection to 2.1. Passive Monitoring= =2E 7.=C2=A0 Impact on Mobility Network Optimizations and New Services This section appears to be a mix of replication of statements already made in section 2, and some speculation on the effect of transport header encryption, such as deployed in Web RTC (SCTP over DTLS) or planned in QUIC. There are active discussions in the QUIC WG to provide alternative to transport header inspection for RTT monitoring, and possibly also for packet loss monitoring. Contrarily to the rest of the document, this section seems speculative in nature. It discusses the possible effects of transport header encryption on the possible deployment of new services, which do not appear to be based on any IETF standard. I think the document would be stronger if some of the content of section 7 was moved to the appropriate part of section 2, and if the speculative statements were published as a separate document. 8.=C2=A0 Response to Increased Encryption and Looking Forward Looks reasonable. -- Christian Huitema From nobody Tue Dec 5 00:04:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B980C127077; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 00:04:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151246106171.13722.16300970260977599955@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 00:04:21 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community-04.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:04:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Export BGP community information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) Authors : Zhenqiang Li Rong Gu Jie Dong Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community-04.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2017-12-04 Abstract: This draft updates RFC7012 IPFIX information model by introducing several information elements to enable IPFIX to export the BGP community information, including BGP standard community defined in RFC1997, BGP extended community defined in RFC4360, and BGP large community defined in RFC8092. Network traffic flow information can then be accumulated and analysed at the granularity specified by the BGP communities, which is suitable for and needed by some traffic optimization applications located in IPFIX collector, SDN controller or PCE (Path Computation Element). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-bgp-community-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 5 00:47:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A734126D73 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 00:47:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.123 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.123 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) 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(2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fXpX0JcO-6Dw; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22c.google.com (mail-pf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EACC127866; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id e3so7600783pfi.10; Fri, 08 Dec 2017 08:26:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PEHtnTkgJrwweDfAzG8RQm3icKJKGr8gsSBFIn/oqgg=; b=DJX0DZo/Qnnq/daoSX7Qs5kamY5a/2RN8F98Vz9Zs0Basvm0SjO95DnXs2+y5J9dfa ++v3CthmXLIleK32PoZ/ESnwOsnYmhqEpLW/LdFGru3HNHNI6ASJ33l8t01tPFCC6PQL 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AGs4zMYiv42vcGDPBQyObZa7ZubVU/j+jLhhd1AFxvhY4XmoYiDnfzHVDwVSgig49M8nGWkAuSlIV7HkHy9ywtx5VZY= X-Received: by 10.159.197.5 with SMTP id bj5mr31298201plb.219.1512750381353; Fri, 08 Dec 2017 08:26:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.208 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:25:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1ecac9b1-685b-8114-780a-a43425fb167d@huitema.net> References: <1ecac9b1-685b-8114-780a-a43425fb167d@huitema.net> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 11:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: Christian Huitema Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List , draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171208162624.D8DCA127866@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 08:26:24 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Christian's review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 16:26:25 -0000 Thank you, Christain and others for your reviews. Our running draft has addressed most comments received by mid-IETF week. We are working on the others. We also received some comments from Kyle Rose and Brandon Williams and are working to address those as well. We'll respond on list when we get to this set of comments. Best regards, Kathleen On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Christian Huitema wrote: > The high level summary is that draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt version 13 is > significantly improved from previous versions, but that the document > would benefit a lot from additional work. I am not convinced that the > sections on data center and enterprises belong in this specific document > - they seem too high level to bring serious information to readers. > Maybe stage a separate document to survey enterprise issues in some > depth? I also feel that section 7 is way too speculative for a survey > document. > > I have been using the "side by side" feature of the IETF web site to > compare the last draft that I reviewed (draft 10) and the current draft > (draft 13). That tools shows the high volume of changes and > reorganization that happens between these two versions. These changes > generally make the document more balanced, and that's a welcomed > development. There are however many places where I find that the > documents lists controversial techniques without sufficient caveats. I > will list some of them in the reminder of this review. > > The introduction and the summary have been rewritten to clearly place > the document in perspective. The previous versions could be read as a > plea to stop encrypting traffic so previous management practices could > continue. The new introduction makes clear that the IETF needs to > prevent pervasive monitoring and improve the users' privacy, and that > the goal of the document is to list areas in which current management > practice need to evolve, or areas where substitute practices have to be > found. I also appreciate the note that "some of (current management > practices) have been considered controversial from a technical or > business perspective or contradictory to previous IETF statements" -- > and the implicit implication that the IETF will not attempt to restore > all of these. > > 2. Network Service Provider Monitoring > > Section 2, "Network Service Provider Monitoring", has been reorganized > to focus on management goals rather than simply provide a list of > existing management tools. The description of the trouble shooting tasks > in section 2.2 is useful. It makes the point that "application server > operators using increased encryption should expect to be called upon > more frequently to assist with debugging and troubleshooting", and that > could lead to some interesting work in the IETF. > > There is paragraph at the end of section 2.1.2, Troubleshooting, that > states that "the push for encryption by application providers has been > motivated by the application of the described techniques." I think that > paragraph is misplaced. As far as I can tell, the application providers > are first concerned with "content management" techniques that modify > the data stream. Any change of content has the potential to generate > bugs that are difficult for the application provider to fix. The second > concern is "ossification", when traffic characterization based on > inferred features of the application traffic leads to adverse > consequences when the application or transport protocols evolve. Neither > of those is directly relevant to the "troubleshooting" task. Maybe move > that paragraph higher in the document, e.g. in the introduction of > section 2? If not that, then maybe move it to section 2.2.2, since one > purpose of application encryption is indeed to defeat differential > treatment in the network. > > I find the discussion of load balancers in section 2.2.1 somewhat > confusing. It seems to cover three functions: load balancers in data > centers, load balancers integrated with the network, and a network > management function that tries to maintain proper connectivity to > anycast addresses services in the presence of mobility. It might be > useful to move the discussion of "classic" load balancers to section 3, > and to discuss the problem of anycast continuity in a separate > subsection. The anycast discussion seems to assume that the network > operator alone has to deal with the supposed inadequacies of the > application providers. It seems obvious that this problem would be much > better solved by improved handling of mobility in content distribution > networks, rather than by some complex machinery in the network itself. > This might need to be stated. > > Section 2.2.2 on Deep Packet Inspection could state that it is very > often possible to classify traffic based on analysis of the encrypted > data. Audio stream, video streams and web traffic have very different > signatures, even when encrypted. At the same time, it should also note > that many application providers are actively working to defeat the > "unilateral" traffic classification enabled by these techniques, > complementing encryption with various techniques like multiplexing or > padding. We could well observe an arms race between more powerful > network based analysis and smarter application hiding. > > The discussion of performance enhancing proxies in section 2.2.3 states > that "This optimization at network edges measurably improves real-time > transmission over long delay Internet paths or networks with large > capacity-variation (such as mobile/cellular networks)." This is not a > consensual statement. Operators do indeed hope that deploying such > proxies will improve performance, but independent measurements have > shown that such proxies often in fact degrade performance. The studies > that show improvement tend to be based on old network technologies, or > on ancient TCP stacks. If the authors want to keep a statement like > that, they should add references to actual measurements. At a minimum, > the text should note that many application providers disagree with the > assessment presented here, and that the development of encrypted > transports such as QUIC is largely motivated by the desire to mitigate > the negative effects of such "performance-dehancing" proxies. > > The discussion of caching in section 2.2.5 correctly states the tension > between network usage and application control. It could also state the > inherent privacy risk associated with network based caches: they will > provide a log of which users accessed what cached content. There is a > reference to draft-thomson-http-bc-01, but as far as I know the authors > have abandoned it, in part because they could not solve the related > privacy issues. In any case, that draft expired several month ago, and > the reference is probably not appropriate. > > In section 2.3.3, Application Layer Gateways, I was wishing it would say > something about IPv6. But then of course most IPv6 deployments today > involve a form of NAT64... > > Section 2.3.4 documents the "HTTP Header Insertion" technique. The > relation between that technique and "Network Service Provider > Monitoring" is unclear -- header insertion is certainly not a network > monitoring tool. It is also a highly controversial tool, as documented > for example in > https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/7/11173010/verizon-supercookie-fine-1-3-million-fcc. > I wonder whether it is appropriate to describe this at all in a document > dedicated to network management, and my simple suggestion would be to > just remove that section altogether. Failing that, the text needs to be > modified to note the controversial nature of the process, and its impact > on privacy. The authors could also note that the function could be > trivially implemented in the client's browsers if it was really needed > and approved by the users. There is no technical need to have anything > like that "in the network". > > 3. Encryption in Hosting SP Environments > > After examining network monitoring in section 2, the draft continues > with an analysis of "Hosting SP Environments" in section 3, and section > 4 describes "Encryption for Enterprises". I assume that the initials SP > stand for "Service Provider" -- spelling it out would not hurt. I really > wonder whether these sections belong in the document at all, rather than > being published in separate documents. "Hosting Service Provider > Environments" appears to be a subset of the general "Data Center" > problem. It is true that some network providers also provide data center > services for their customers, but these network providers represent only > a small fraction of the service hosting industry. Similarly, some > network providers provide services to enterprises, but there is a wide > variety of enterprises. It is hard to believe that the authors of an > individual draft have authority to speak at the same time about network > services, data centers, and enterprises. In my opinion, it would be > simpler to just excise section 3 and 4 from this draft, and use the > content as input for specific drafts describing issues in data centers > and enterprises. > > In any case, I am puzzled by the reference to Data Loss Prevention (DLP) > in the introduction of section 3.1. Data exfiltration is indeed a > security issue, but I knew it primarily as an issue in enterprise > networks. It does indeed become an issue in data centers when an > enterprise application is hosted outside the data center, but it is a > bit strange to see the first reference there. I already suggested to > move section 3 and 4 out to a different document. Failing that, I would > suggest reversing the order of section 3 and 4, i.e., discuss enterprise > issues first and data center issues next. > > The discussion of Customer Access Monitoring in section 3.1.1 is a bit > strange. Most applications control customer access based on the customer > identity, not based on the IP addresses of the customer -- the whole > point of the "cloud" is that applications can be accessed from anywhere. > Some applications do perform additional checks, mainly as a defense > against stolen credentials, and would attempt to block access if the > network location does not look plausible for this specific user. These > are useful techniques, but the relation with encryption of data is > somewhat thin. It seems to reinforce my point that data center issues > would best be discussed in a separate document. > > The reminder of section 3 appears to be a high level tutorial on the > operation of data centers. It is not clear that there is a particular > problem with encryption there. Indeed, I note that a lot of operators of > big data centers, such as for example AWS, Azure or Google, have > voluntarily pushed for increased used of encryption. I don't learn much > by reading these sections, and I question whether they belong in the draft. > > 4. Encryption for Enterprises > > The discussion on encryption in enterprises would probably benefit from > input by a variety of enterprise network managers. I found the > discussion somewhat hard to read. It seems that the authors want to > tackle three issues: the enterprise as a target for security attacks, > the enterprise as an application provider, and the enterprise as a > network provider. These are discussed in sections 4.1.1, 4.1.2, and > 4.1.3. > > The description of attacks in 4.1.1 is somewhat high level. It starts > from the statement that "A significant portion of malware hides its > activity within TLS or other encrypted protocols" to draw a requirement > to monitor encrypted traffic, when in practice there are many other > monitoring points, from endpoint monitoring to data base activity logs > to logs at network authentication servers -- as stated in the last > paragraph of the section. > > The monitoring of application performance in enterprises appears > strangely focused on the "IPv6 Destination Option Header (DOH) > implementation of Performance and Diagnostic Metrics (PDM)". I > understand that most big applications solve their monitoring need by > implementing some form of telemetry, which is not affected at all by > encryption, yet I see no mention of this telemetry approach in the > discussion. > > I had a hard time reading section 4.1.3, Enterprise Network Diagnostics > and Troubleshooting. It seems to cover a variety of techniques meant to > monitor application services without actually instrumenting the > application, and as such is not very convincing. > > The meat of section 4 appears to be in section 4.2, which is covering > the issue of data loss prevention, and generally detection of data > exfiltration. Again, this is an issue that would be worth a specialized > draft. > > 5. Security Monitoring for Specific Attack Types > > Looks fine, and this review is already very long. > > 6. Application-based Flow Information Visible to a Network > > Do we need this section at all? It seems that most of the information > could be captured by adding a small subsection to 2.1. Passive Monitoring. > > 7. Impact on Mobility Network Optimizations and New Services > > This section appears to be a mix of replication of statements already > made in section 2, and some speculation on the effect of transport > header encryption, such as deployed in Web RTC (SCTP over DTLS) or > planned in QUIC. There are active discussions in the QUIC WG to provide > alternative to transport header inspection for RTT monitoring, and > possibly also for packet loss monitoring. > > Contrarily to the rest of the document, this section seems speculative > in nature. It discusses the possible effects of transport header > encryption on the possible deployment of new services, which do not > appear to be based on any IETF standard. I think the document would be > stronger if some of the content of section 7 was moved to the > appropriate part of section 2, and if the speculative statements were > published as a separate document. > > 8. Response to Increased Encryption and Looking Forward > > Looks reasonable. > > -- Christian Huitema > > -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Fri Dec 8 10:53:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 3391E1275FD; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:53:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00BA3127601 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:53:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TuksELrHsq3j for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x230.google.com (mail-pf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 782701275FD for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id l24so7888468pfj.6 for ; Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:53:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=L6MCEiFX3SigWVR+a29bOY05TgRvt7EEomXxItcSe4o=; b=HtL2KxkQHxiqFBYYEPDLcH0bIWRIT7f7z0QqcfihzRkAF/y1PDAdT4W0PdMZHSmgpS Qd/Au8Eqb3iyV0Idt0169Kp2ynLxgS1GXgDnhcXEtpsWmwxfMwCya531UMTWHVN10DPI qu1fbqCjFfyllu58JlQsl4LMrZXR66QNnyglNKafCcv+DZh86/F+BLqr+u28uRoz40R/ HhLDlJ4bHsCI657QsrBg9gzMvVyezZJIlR1L3QHUsvh9xbP0SZWs2lZbxpl3LVk5qxPd 1b5sD69hHF7udHH2Tme0ydl4FIblKafFU+5LPLtwHAtCpnrVcUnSrV9HOqhflDuczeLm PcDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=L6MCEiFX3SigWVR+a29bOY05TgRvt7EEomXxItcSe4o=; b=BYPBa3JL6ZtgGUurEFObw42rR+aViGNkqC9ee4qcEW6y9+c3jfR5YkpfrmpHPASjgg iIBlH3r4jQR0jepEZRDtlGSKytGF7HWZAJ75KSc86Kb8BQLDsqt6TKXb3Idt7mg2nl4g 8dT7F7ilCR5Y7+imZM5GizL5rJ90Nq4tu4XN3ilTVS4g9uyGW+ltZwiHCKojNV9wOsTQ sU/+g70jphFis2QxPfBCZD38k8zN9rbk3DbHEogXO39MPrtLv561lOeroe/+5Xxy14+2 LOf0xYh2/TNuuo65GXjUK8LQoXP3mD4T8mpmAAyBNP9WYf3nScVo3b3/ItqU4LyHnlcD JGcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX45s6+OFW+2N9IKkQ4eCTUMw71olK9j8KaUbznCB+t8g6KafIm4 spdQ4d8G/Zvh2IVugDZbprPzCELvVOQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbqT1iV+WYG0ufGKQlJQ3VDlYNwNs3VRW47Z4kVgierg0dkSlEVe+ZY2gI/p6s7AyP6sbUBvw== X-Received: by 10.84.244.139 with SMTP id h11mr31690534pll.127.1512759206421; Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2620::10e7:10:7841:ab5b:cfea:b554? ([2620:0:10e7:10:7841:ab5b:cfea:b554]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 82sm15957631pfm.136.2017.12.08.10.53.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:53:25 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: james woodyatt In-Reply-To: <1ecac9b1-685b-8114-780a-a43425fb167d@huitema.net> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:53:24 -0800 Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List , draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8D818A25-1FD6-4FFF-AD64-56C716DF272D@google.com> References: <1ecac9b1-685b-8114-780a-a43425fb167d@huitema.net> To: Christian Huitema X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171208185330.3391E1275FD@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:53:30 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Christian's review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 18:53:30 -0000 On Dec 4, 2017, at 08:23, Christian Huitema wrote: >=20 > In section 2.3.3, Application Layer Gateways, I was wishing it would = say > something about IPv6. But then of course most IPv6 deployments today > involve a form of NAT64... That section leaves unmentioned a vast array of open questions related = to IPv6-layer security filters and the problem of application layer = gateways. It contains an extended discussion of the ALG functions in one example = case-- and not a particularly good one I would say-- the RTSP protocol, = which in the presence of an ALG, depends on the parties performing it in = cleartext, or it alternatively requires a proxy being a participant in = the security protocol. The issues it describes apply to RTSP over both = IPv4 and IPv6 in the presence of stateful filters that deny unsolicited = inbound flows. Both NAT44 and NAT64 depend on such stateful filters, and = "Simple Security in IPv6 Gateway CPE=E2=80=9D [RFC 6092] is an example = of a place where the issue applies in the absence of any network address = translation. Some history might be worth recalling here, at the risk of yet again = being That Guy Who Told You So. Because I=E2=80=99m a bitter old man, I like to go back to =E2=80=9CLocal = Network Protection for IPv6=E2=80=9D [RFC 4864]. Specifically, =C2=A74.2 = IPv6 and Simple Security. This document, while Informational, is the = point in our history where IETF formally published a statement = acknowledging that IPv6 would absolutely always have the same problem = with needing trustworthy ALGs and proxies in the network that IPv4 does. The key sentence there is this one: >> These should provide a default configuration where incoming traffic = is limited to return traffic resulting from outgoing packets (sometimes = known as reflective session state). After this document was published, and the howling subsided, some of us = thought it would be a good idea to describe the behavioral requirements = of this IPv6 "Simple Security" function in the same way that RFC 4787 = and RFC 5382 do for UDP and TCP, respectively, in the IPv4/NAT case. = Which is why we now have "Simple Security in IPv6 Gateway CPE=E2=80=9D = [RFC 6092]. When RFC 6092 was in development, an early draft revision had a section = about recommendations for various application layer gateways, e.g. = RTSP+RTP, L2TP+IKE+IPsec/ESP, FTP, et cetera. The final draft didn=E2=80=99= t include any of that, because consensus emerged around the idea that = IPv6 simple security functions should not *need* any ALGs, and they = should instead include a generic service for applications to use in = soliciting inbound flows from unknown remote addresses. This entailed = having the usual IETF tussle over competing non-standard solutions, i.e. = UPnP-IGD vs. NAT-PMP. It was unresolved at the time RFC 6092 was = published. It would still take some time before "Port Control Protocol = (PCP)" [RFC 6887] would settle that debate. Which is why REC-48 is written with such curiously vague text: >> Internet gateways with IPv6 simple security capabilities SHOULD = implement a protocol to permit applications to solicit inbound traffic = without advance knowledge of the addresses of exterior nodes with which = they expect to communicate. Were we to revise RFC 6092 today, I would like to see this amended to = recommend PCP specifically. If there is an RFC anywhere that = specifically asserts that deploying PCP servers in NAT64 and IPv6 = firewall devices is Best Current Practice, then I=E2=80=99m unaware of = it. It would be nice. With hindsight, I was right to harbor pessimism about the rosy = predictions, favored by some IETF participants, for the future of IPv6 = without simple security gateways everywhere, entailing the need for an = array of ALGs and proxies in every gateway, with the consequential = impediment to application protocol evolution created thereby. It turns = out that =E2=80=9CLocal Network Protection for IPv6=E2=80=9D [RFC 4864] = really was a BCP in an Informational drag, which is the case I remember = making here all those years ago. With respect to NAT64, it=E2=80=99s worth reviewing =E2=80=9CNAT64 = Deployment Options and Experience=E2=80=9D [RFC 7269], which is = Informational, and it discusses both PCP and "An FTP Application Layer = Gateway (ALG) for IPv6-to-IPv4 Translation=E2=80=9D [RFC 6384], as an = example of a case where we recognized that ubiquitous stateful filtering = and denial of unsolicited inbound flows would entail the placement of = application layer gateways and proxies in the network. Why do IPv6 FTP = clients require RFC 6384? Because they don=E2=80=99t have PCP clients in = them, and there are no PCP servers anyway. Now it=E2=80=99s almost 2018, and we are finally discovering that = pervasive encryption requires ALGs and proxies to be trusted by all = parties in the application protocol. And this is painful. Because new = host application protocols aren=E2=80=99t even developed to use PCP. = Because PCP servers haven=E2=80=99t been deployed anywhere. Because = everything is terrible, and everyone would love to keep it that way. Or, = at least, it seems so to me. Because I=E2=80=99m a bitter old man. I honestly don=E2=80=99t know if there is anything useful to say about = ALGs in this document beyond simply acknowledging somewhere that = they=E2=80=99re all necessarily broken by pervasive end-to-end = encryption and operators who value administrative privacy, user tracking = and/or topology hiding should consider the utility of secure application = level proxies instead. --james woodyatt From nobody Mon Dec 11 13:59:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 8DB1E127601; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:59:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E43A1200F1; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:59:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Ines Robles To: Cc: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151302958109.21278.5686525939396201959@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:59:41 -0800 Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171211215941.8DB1E127601@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:59:41 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Rtgdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 21:59:42 -0000 Reviewer: Ines Robles Review result: Ready RtgDir review: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13.txt Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: Effect of Pervasive Encryption on Operators - draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 Reviewer: Ines Robles Review Date: 12-11-2017 Intended status: Informational Summary: This document discusses current security and network management practices to help guide protocol development in support of manageable, secure networks. The draft is ready, few typos found. Comments: I believe the draft is technically good. This document is well written and clear to understand. Major Issues: No major issues found. Minor Issues: Section 2: "... Following the Snowden revelations,..." => It would be nice to add some references here Section 2.2.5: "DRM..."=> I would expand it to Digital Rights Management (DRM) Section 6: inlcudes=> includes Section 6.1: "information For example" => period missing? Section 6.2: "soltuions" -> solutions Section 7.1 title: "Encypted" => Encrypted From nobody Mon Dec 11 18:27:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 7C5B01270B4; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB3D128DF6; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lEsB2DrUQzdm; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x244.google.com (mail-pf0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22F611270B4; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x244.google.com with SMTP id m26so13065078pfj.11; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KdSM9V0eOvWuhbWJz2q9uc9beIwzeTjlxvoI7vAJdFg=; b=aLphYrUWa2J1KN3RtbOPTNF/rBaRn0TDzZU57Mfow7DZ2ISAOiSnZ1OFyPLQ9HeVBG 8FzisOVcLtGLNGGcBbkXkr2wnAe+jyL1671hgAlTLqcF3YlikFbX2kK0uZRpVueB7IPH gBZjGOhWA9TIyQihT89Sim21tfd85PLn8Wd/gouYDz4vgEFv1DlLffTfj87dj439M+1f KQ6frPU+LjONGLGzzr3NAus7AG+w1UqsVZjCJtlSbewWCHdF7o6NSBBlG2Xrx4pJ/1W2 BRo6TUJeSpWtxpv0/0rmlfg18aJHy4H/3rTKzRoeh7f1d7Y1Ye0V1kZdaB34S6Awco7A Whfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KdSM9V0eOvWuhbWJz2q9uc9beIwzeTjlxvoI7vAJdFg=; b=i/jqIGwK8jKgSTOzZmUvd8S5SUb0qC2PQemX0ys/ck9sBmLnL6+Pnr2rQaD7FIl1Cc LI3e19wrg5XjBitwzXXLM1snDptvViqjZ7Uo0iofXw8BPLcrY3vsiMWRa26NmZvGQUQh dPVUCu+kKgwtdJ/LiyT64R+tcLRkBWaqyxAZ2856NRa2V57f7bIlwnueh6YE82xgbPwh H35d+O+sKy740CR3ShB1BPtayGYnXD6WaqK+EcXdNlJ0KEWgSLdECFDIvVaNEjaa0Sm0 FKfHh7xjJhX1wL1Fzvx6Ydjeokex4wl5QSnv5CX6K+C/dIPOsiuwykkI3KVgAVEmHQ1n ii5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLEo0iuEGjRXUoOD7YDhIAt18FYMHnc7PTj4l7VLXpcuXoxksJm Fs73iveV5zfZcr3eCd1oxx5aLOd7NvMSjlYtsyg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouAtVB8xdDcp1NnPWNtCfil0kOD4m5qG6rGSNzVY9dP57fg54qtYqaD4rhpiYAa7rT9k1rrv7L4nbuGPKZqyHw= X-Received: by 10.84.173.1 with SMTP id o1mr669630plb.135.1513045665712; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.208 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <151302958109.21278.5686525939396201959@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151302958109.21278.5686525939396201959@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 21:27:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ines Robles Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt.all@ietf.org, IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Resent-From: Resent-To: Kathleen.Moriarty@dell.com, acmorton@att.com, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, ekr@rtfm.com, Paul Hoffman , warren@kumari.net, opsawg@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Resent-Message-Id: <20171212022748.7C5B01270B4@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:27:48 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Rtgdir last call review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 02:27:48 -0000 Ines, Thank you very much for your review! We're working on the comments received and the nits you found will be addressed and are much appreciated. Best regards, Kathleen On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Ines Robles wrote: > Reviewer: Ines Robles > Review result: Ready > > RtgDir review: draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13.txt > > Hello, > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The > Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as > they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special > request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. > For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir > > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would > be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call > comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by > updating the draft. > > Document: Effect of Pervasive Encryption on Operators - > draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-13 Reviewer: Ines Robles Review Date: 12-11-2017 > Intended status: Informational > > Summary: > This document discusses current security and network management practices to > help guide protocol development in support of manageable, secure networks. > > The draft is ready, few typos found. > > Comments: > > I believe the draft is technically good. This document is well written and > clear to understand. > > Major Issues: > > No major issues found. > > Minor Issues: > > Section 2: > > "... Following the Snowden revelations,..." => It would be nice to add some > references here > > Section 2.2.5: > "DRM..."=> I would expand it to Digital Rights Management (DRM) > > Section 6: > > inlcudes=> includes > > Section 6.1: > "information For example" => period missing? > > Section 6.2: > "soltuions" -> solutions > > Section 7.1 title: > "Encypted" => Encrypted > > -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Mon Dec 18 17:44:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E716112D95C; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:44:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151364785890.7379.16350697045953294224@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:44:18 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel-11.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 01:44:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Alternate Tunnel Encapsulation for Data Frames in CAPWAP Authors : Rong Zhang Rajesh S. Pazhyannur Sri Gundavelli Zhen Cao Hui Deng Zongpeng Du Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel-11.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2017-12-18 Abstract: Control and Provisioning of Wireless Access Points (CAPWAP) defines a specification to encapsulate a station's data frames between the Wireless Transmission Point (WTP) and Access Controller (AC). Specifically, the station's IEEE 802.11 data frames can be either locally bridged or tunneled to the AC. When tunneled, a CAPWAP data channel is used for tunneling. In many deployments encapsulating data frames to an entity other than the AC (for example to an Access Router (AR)) is desirable. Furthermore, it may also be desirable to use different tunnel encapsulation modes between the WTP and the Access Router. This document defines extension to CAPWAP protocol for supporting this capability and refers to it as alternate tunnel encapsulation. The alternate tunnel encapsulation allows 1) the WTP to tunnel non-management data frames to an endpoint different from the AC and 2) the WTP to tunnel using one of many known encapsulation types such as IP-IP, IP-GRE, CAPWAP. The WTP may advertise support for alternate tunnel encapsulation during the discovery and join process and AC may select one of the supported alternate tunnel encapsulation types while configuring the WTP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsawg-capwap-alt-tunnel-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 19 15:11:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2201B12D87F for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:11:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dAz8HZNK--AL for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A068E1243FE for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 15:11:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=390; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513725078; x=1514934678; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=eKR+VAm72zSNE7XjD6WFQYps7rjsTj0iePzSVHLRU0Q=; b=jXqu128WRQe7N8gmAfsAD3Hy2CWxkzievA/pl+HmKKLJVep1eT9Vs5E5 njIs1MIx+/t8jnlyPIHb+gcY1yyfnDjJjo2LTkw4oJ1Q+QHApctwmfPyY A6KTMhhSejXc/NGZdxtK1qcDSTyTfSCfHCN3lesmtBL7Pv/snHcpuVAlR c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BvAgA1kzla/4sNJK1dGgEBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYM+ZnSELZksgVuXS4IVAggjiihBFgEBAQEBAQEBAWsdC4VHBoELAiY?= =?us-ascii?q?CXw0IAQGKJxCnDAGBNIIninEBAQEBBgEBAQEBHgU0W4JfghKBVoISC4YnAQGFA?= =?us-ascii?q?4JjBZMwkBKIAI0tgX0BihmHXQKNHIldgTsmCiiBT0wjFYJmhHQjiwoBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,428,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="334190348" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Dec 2017 23:11:17 +0000 Received: from [10.118.87.84] (rtp-jclarke-nitro3.cisco.com [10.118.87.84]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBJNBHVS005091 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 23:11:17 GMT To: "opsawg@ietf.org" From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 18:11:17 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] WG LC: Calling for comments on draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 23:11:20 -0000 Hello, opsawg. As discussed in Singapore, we are starting a WG LC on draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang (currently at version -09). This document has received a number of reviews and comments already. We will hold a four week WG LC for this to allow for the upcoming holiday. The WG LC will close on January 9, 2017. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang/ Joe From nobody Fri Dec 22 07:15:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D332E12EAF0; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 07:15:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mNl4pEfwUyXe; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 07:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E4ED12EAEF; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 07:15:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=196; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513955748; x=1515165348; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=+nt4KLKainwQQn+a2X5M28t/coFtQmF8oz3waM+oQ5Y=; b=gew+UGxHUYqixbtKVPeV0qHW5sE8MmDWg+9S2T8JqadoTMlyN4+UuikC SY0XOiHkKZu1QuNQwNATK4CwoHRhmJXejlIZ36X1Tfl43zRNNu3Qwp4S8 Ul/GPoWBOiAw00+ToOxEScYlovFPd5BH2CWRMfPf7I+pVpFm6W7/m4QL7 c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A+AwA7IT1a/5RdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM+gVqELZk2gVqZZAqFMQGEWUIVAQEBAQEBAQEBayiFRwaBCwI?= =?us-ascii?q?mAl8BDAgBAYoqpQSCJ4pSAQEBAQYBAQEBJIEPgn2CEoFWghIMiy6CZQWTMZAYl?= =?us-ascii?q?S+BfgEYhhWDbIdgApZ/gTs1I4FPTCMVgmeEdCOKbAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,441,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="325134409" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Dec 2017 15:15:46 +0000 Received: from [10.118.87.84] (rtp-jclarke-nitro3.cisco.com [10.118.87.84]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBMFFkZ7012889; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:15:46 GMT To: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang@ietf.org" From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: <32abe856-ef86-8343-3814-8ebb29becdf6@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:15:46 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] IPR CALL: Please disclose any IPR related to draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:15:50 -0000 On behalf of the chairs, I'd like to do an IPR call for this draft as it is in WG LC. If there is any IPR related to this draft, please disclose it here as well as within Data Tracker. Joe From nobody Wed Dec 27 17:35:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1917B126CC4; Wed, 27 Dec 2017 17:35:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.23 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.23 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lE6pGnDaoAr5; Wed, 27 Dec 2017 17:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A955126C19; Wed, 27 Dec 2017 17:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 518FAAC06FE5; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:35:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:35:26 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.231]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:35:22 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Joe Clarke , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR CALL: Please disclose any IPR related to draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang Thread-Index: AQHTezfFgJuemOymHESbZqk3K6yp0KNYAa7Q Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:35:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <32abe856-ef86-8343-3814-8ebb29becdf6@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <32abe856-ef86-8343-3814-8ebb29becdf6@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.79.67] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR CALL: Please disclose any IPR related to draft-ietf-opsawg-nat-yang X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:35:30 -0000 SSBoYXZlIG5vIElQUiByZWxhdGVkIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuDQoNCi1RaW4NCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu2 5Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogSm9lIENsYXJrZSBbbWFpbHRvOmpjbGFya2VAY2lzY28u Y29tXSANCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxN+W5tDEy5pyIMjLml6UgMjM6MTYNCuaUtuS7tuS6ujog b3BzYXdnQGlldGYub3JnOyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9wc2F3Zy1uYXQteWFuZ0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K5Li7 6aKYOiBJUFIgQ0FMTDogUGxlYXNlIGRpc2Nsb3NlIGFueSBJUFIgcmVsYXRlZCB0byBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLW9wc2F3Zy1uYXQteWFuZw0KDQpPbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgdGhlIGNoYWlycywgSSdkIGxpa2Ug dG8gZG8gYW4gSVBSIGNhbGwgZm9yIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYXMgaXQgaXMgaW4gV0cgTEMuICBJZiB0 aGVyZSBpcyBhbnkgSVBSIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gdGhpcyBkcmFmdCwgcGxlYXNlIGRpc2Nsb3NlIGl0 IGhlcmUgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyB3aXRoaW4gRGF0YSBUcmFja2VyLg0KDQpKb2UNCg==