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14.03.0415.000; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 18:36:13 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: =?utf-8?B?T3NjYXIgR29uesOhbGV6IGRlIERpb3M=?= , "OPSAWG@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 Thread-Index: AdUcUIZusT3pvC30SFakUX+QbP4miA== Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:36:13 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA496366Cnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 10:36:26 -0000 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Reply-To: opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: <156027932152.30882.15275660565638019896@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:55:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:55:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Network Telemetry Framework Authors : Haoyu Song Fengwei Qin Pedro Martinez-Julia Laurent Ciavaglia Aijun Wang Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2019-06-11 Abstract: This document provides an architectural framework for network telemetry to address the current and future network operation challenges and requirements. As evidenced by some key characteristics and industry practices, network telemetry covers technologies and protocols beyond the conventional network Operations, Administration, and Management (OAM), so it promises better flexibility, scalability, accuracy, coverage, and performance and allows automated control loops to suit both today's and tomorrow's network operation requirements. This document clarifies the terminologies and classifies the modules and components of a network telemetry system. The framework and taxonomy help to set a common ground for the collection of related work and provide guidance for future technique and standard developments. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 11 19:57:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA76120071; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:57:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4MhOfgLDPOeU; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F488120059; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0FC1CE417428C1952F34; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:57:04 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:57:03 +0100 Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:57:03 +0100 Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 03:57:03 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:55:15 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: H00725768 , "draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf.authors@ietf.org" CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHVIIdkVhfTCkWAoUuIZ8gKelQfbKaXO/7g Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:55:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <156027932152.30882.15275660565638019896@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156027932152.30882.15275660565638019896@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:57:10 -0000 Hi Haoyu and the authors, Thank you for the update on the NTF work. I see a lot of deep thinking wrt = Telemetry. I have some comments after a quick reading. 1. While I understand why you put the details on "Existing Works Mapped in = the Framework" to Appendix A. I think the "Requirements and Challenges" for= management plane, control plane, data plane, etc could be general and cons= istent. Maybe you can put those content in 4.2 or 4.4 or a separate section= . 2. In Figure 6, I hope you can be more clear on the management column. YANG= Push is a sub-pub extension to NETCONF. It's better to remove the "NETCONF= " only. 3. In A.3.2. Technique Taxonomy I do not agree with your discussion on in-band and out-of-band. You may ref= er to rfc4778,=20 2.2. Device Management - In-Band and Out-of-Band (OOB) 4. Some nits: iOAM->IOAM Need expansion for IPFPM. Internet of Things~(IoT) -> Internet of Things (IoT) Tianran > -----Original Message----- > From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 2:55 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: opsawg@ietf.org > Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working G= roup > WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Network Telemetry Framework > Authors : Haoyu Song > Fengwei Qin > Pedro Martinez-Julia > Laurent Ciavaglia > Aijun Wang > Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01.txt > Pages : 33 > Date : 2019-06-11 >=20 > Abstract: > This document provides an architectural framework for network > telemetry to address the current and future network operation > challenges and requirements. As evidenced by some key > characteristics and industry practices, network telemetry covers > technologies and protocols beyond the conventional network > Operations, Administration, and Management (OAM), so it promises > better flexibility, scalability, accuracy, coverage, and performance > and allows automated control loops to suit both today's and > tomorrow's network operation requirements. This document clarifies > the terminologies and classifies the modules and components of a > network telemetry system. The framework and taxonomy help to set a > common ground for the collection of related work and provide guidance > for future technique and standard developments. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-opsawg-ntf-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg From nobody Wed Jun 12 11:22:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F321200B9; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides guidelines f= or definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType registries https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 If you have any concerns either with the contents of the draft, or about me= AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/26. Thanks Suresh NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potential= ly interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) please l= et me know. --_000_75825363B4BA4F94A935B87F474F06C9kaloomcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <494ADFAEEE1CBD4C8CB36ACC8DD09892@CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
  I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides gu= idelines for definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType= registries

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

If you have any concerns either with the contents of the dr= aft, or about me AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/26.
Thanks
Suresh

NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potential= ly
interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) please l= et
me know.
--_000_75825363B4BA4F94A935B87F474F06C9kaloomcom_-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:46:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D981202B6; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jDQ2rsKjRyPC; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9A401201DB; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45PlPY6c6cz8wTY; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:45:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.54]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45PlPY4mBWz3wcF; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:45:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bcfe:4850:e646:f223%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:45:53 +0200 From: To: Suresh Krishnan , int-area , 6man , dhcwg , V6 Ops List , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "softwires@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 Thread-Index: AQHVIUvM9WEXtmDvEkCRovcCdcQgcKaZmBOg Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:45:52 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA62A9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <75825363-B4BA-4F94-A935-B87F474F06C9@kaloom.com> In-Reply-To: <75825363-B4BA-4F94-A935-B87F474F06C9@kaloom.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA62A9OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:45:58 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA62A9OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Suresh, all, I fully support this effort. I hope the authors can address two comments we received as part of draft-ie= tf-softwire-iftunnel that I do think belong to this I-D: * Add a clear mention under https://www.iana.org/assignments/smi-numbers/sm= i-numbers.xhtml#smi-numbers-6 to indicate this is about "tunnelType Registr= y". * Add some text to encourage UDP-based tunnel protocol designers to registe= r their own code instead of reusing the one currently assigned to generic U= DP encap (8). Thank you. Cheers, Med De : Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Suresh Krish= nan Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 juin 2019 20:23 =C0 : int-area; 6man; dhcwg; V6 Ops List; opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.o= rg Objet : [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 Hi all, I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides guidelines f= or definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType registries https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 If you have any concerns either with the contents of the draft, or about me= AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/26. Thanks Suresh NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potential= ly interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) please l= et me know. --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA62A9OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Suresh, all,

 

I fully support this effort.&nb= sp;

 

I hope the authors can address = two comments we received as part of draft-ietf-softwire-iftunnel that I do = think belong to this I-D:

* Add a clear mention under = https://www.iana.org/assignments/smi-numbers/smi-numbers.xhtml#smi-numbers-= 6 to indicate this is about "tunnelType Registry".

* Add some text to encourage= UDP-based tunnel protocol designers to register their own code instead of = reusing the one currently assigned to generic UDP encap (8).

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Int-= area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Suresh Krishnan
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 juin 2019 20:23
=C0 : int-area; 6man; dhcwg; V6 Ops List; opsawg@ietf.org; soft= wires@ietf.org
Objet : [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

 

Hi all,
  I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides gu= idelines for definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType= registries

https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

 

If you have any concerns either with the contents of= the draft, or about me AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/= 26.


Thanks
Suresh

NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potential= ly
interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) please l= et
me know.

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA62A9OPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Fri Jun 14 09:28:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B671205D4; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:28:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iipsQEcM10dc; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRA01-MR2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr90139.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.9.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4CB31205D2; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:PR1PR07MB4874; H:PR1PR07MB5868.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Wm8OkUn3/Ns/FAJYFl2JCdfzPMS+GYhh5KgmpwmN+Rrsioz1NHrw45TgYq/s8vmNvg7LRfqaNcPpW+Hsq1JXWz2WMMjEp1G9vayYIVtuyocH2SNeaKSgOOPiNgU9fBhjdkwANb3kVyRWq6B229xet900OV4bxtcLKTzNtAaC7hUcOv7DNOONB4WPafnQAiXxPkWII2zTWDr09I4fUqRdvWaKluqUPIfURcNlWDNdTjd1PI0gwDwqy6q1UxnkIxF15yzurjkKIpgEHsNP+KqUuICKRcLstjn7CzdzpoRAZKdNNnhrWzlSFq5sO+lwOzI4C7IIhrQ2qzMpa5O1GhtT2Y1t4Y9gsBRZH0ZfYZPhQvEgIgnPYk44QtizwF7PFaPZzdJrJAJAyI7A6yVX1oO2XjLQMMpvbUq6onj2aspeTn8= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <8D88A68E9157D94C9E64E30A0CBA11CE@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 00a4a854-6312-483a-a710-08d6f0e54c4c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Jun 2019 16:28:14.8696 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ietfc@btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PR1PR07MB4874 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 16:28:22 -0000 Suresh The concern I have is that it muddies the waters further on the standing of tunnels so while I think that its proposals for ifType per se are fine, I would like it to make explicit that tunnels are out-of-scope at this time. I have been trying to reconcile the workings of softwire, in creating a tunnel YANG module, with the existing IANA structure and failing. I believe that is because the current status of tunnels is unclear. Thus the softwire I-D refers to a registry that does not exist (as such) although the URL that the softwire I-D does. I think the timing unfortunate in that IMHO the softwires I-D will get pressed ahead before this work can complete, so quite what this I-D then says about tunnels will be coloured by what then exists for tunnels. So this I-D should make clear what a tunnel is, when it is not an interface, but otherwise declaring tunnels out-of-scope, for a future I-D to do a comparable job for tunnels, setting up a tunnel registry from which MIB modules, YANG modules and anything else can be derived (as long as the relevant data is supplied - SMI needs integers, YANG does not, which I-Ds do not always recognise although the Designated Experts can take care of that). Finally, when I first encountered this I-D I asked on NETCONF and NETMOD WG lists if anyone knew of it, where it was being worked on and got no reply - which surprised me. I note that you have not copied them although they were involved in making the interface type registry what it currently is when creating the YANG module for interface types. I wonder if other WG have an interest, CCAMP or TEAS perhaps. I agree that int-area is the WG best equipped to work on it and that it needs working on. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: "int-area" ; "6man" ; "dhcwg" ; "V6 Ops List" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:22 PM Hi all, I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides guidelines for definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType registries https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 If you have any concerns either with the contents of the draft, or about me AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/26. Thanks Suresh NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potentially interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) please let me know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Sun Jun 16 18:31:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCE91200BA for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:31:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bbhIMuKD_4XV for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D26512008B for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 74AEAA4602F629FCF6B0 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 02:31:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 02:31:50 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:31:47 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Joe Clarke , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] Review of draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-03 Thread-Index: AdUkrGxdIrDMGsVpSMmvu/IDv60gow== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 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dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29wc2F3Zw0K From nobody Mon Jun 17 02:01:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF1A612009E for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 02:01:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8K2g8y6Mu9Ds for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 02:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) 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Hi,

For some reason this email is not in the mailing lis= t archive and I did not see it.

Thanks for the review

 

See my response inline

 

Thanks

Roni Even

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xu honglei [mailto:xuhl.bri@ch= inatelecom.cn]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C217=C8=D5 12:11
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: opsawg@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: feedback on composed VPN

 =

I have read= the latest version of draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03. I believe = it aims at decomposing VPN service spanning across domain into VPN service = in each domain and  provide end to end connectivity service delivery, in addition, I believe it can also stitch c= onnectivity service in each domain and provide end to end network visibilit= y to the connectivity service. Here are a few comments:

 =

1.When a VP= N service needs to span different administrative domains, usually VPN servi= ce in two end or two site in the access are same type VPN service, I would = suggest to change spaning two AS into three domains or AS, introduce L2VPN in two end close to the site

 =

RE: = thanks, this is a good scenario, maybe we can add this to figure 2 and expl= ain the logic behind it.

 =

 =

2. It is not clear to what config manger1 means? It = is domain specific controller or NMS or something else, I think it is forme= r, if the answer is yes, it will be great to make this clear.

 

RE: this is a domain specific controller see = the text after figure 1 but we can make it clearer

 

Besides this, I think this draft is in good shape an= d ready for adoption.

 

 

 

H.Xu

+86-010-5090-2313

+86-133-0116-8970

xuhl.bri@chinatelecom.cn

-------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research In= stitute

Southern Zone of Future Science City,

Beiqijia Town, Changping District,

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--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D37409dggemm526mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 16:21:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D0F120073; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:21:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hVHmujWcnFPV; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3128C12004F; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id t28so11038383lje.9; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:21:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v75fP+RZTkVNnRBJgP57avkEwGaRIeTbxn0PcGskJ1k=; b=a20uhOogNTBhbJ00FUj8ZVBtc9QiJKbsIc/uWzHDxp9VoE3o2nrUaqT5fO6OfOjlvW lcWemnD40EjXg785kYo+KcgDPvlD5Hxluz9MGoSg/+k9lJX4iD21CzvdNzyHo8bSB0+t dLUvKFOMhJ1Wok3reAiflLKU6ynFZhNId8x6IAhqr/jPN4319YUGcvQf9OFI+VHw47Ea 8e6MInnyqT/9cVAMB9s7x2fGuaSkLJ185u/hKn2WegvafJJFtLR28EAC0rvdmuH0yevJ Lp3i8WfMNAssfDWj6qYEvbWNp1HzkS07im2Ohma2dERL7PrAvfye2hMT+6t7ED6En8y+ +huw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v75fP+RZTkVNnRBJgP57avkEwGaRIeTbxn0PcGskJ1k=; b=I5tVikElIdnSCnrHST2HFhMVqXhcauyeLuuH+EdrGmqlFA/hU8GY8fQtPdCrRxkpqa awzojWMxJ2e55RTwZOy6bJRv6Q+T/LEw65zqLbr7VMaABzGJFlSlnY1utynbuKtgEa9p Z/A7W3qzhdBuwtDTiUrcv/1SgUg4SlEJ+avyu3RKymSLCrokM7QHUS9nZvG+XKwJgd5F wOvKrsvAchXaBlHbWWCiCBDQWiTezaSWVHwM+jDwNNju9nt/aAFy0aMvhNHjVCUp6u/n lRRtW+RJnsD3wnKKyTzdIucSMDHpCp9jxHYhn4QGFEfxrLcO/hH9QV+YynnovkWEAqBz ix/A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUHcA+g+A7Ydn7vY0y8D0xFtUVTZHVxm+9fUUH/o0tGf+w3J7Ad 5X+Dakg66wF64dFFFxp/1f/ch1Xko4NjtuPtXZY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyNv+qoRYZ+aJ71JF4gVDV5/tPoZZ5kf8eWqKE9q6do52n7arGQG5r4Ok0gkjfQ1u7w3QDUiM84Lnyev8F1jZY= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7614:: with SMTP id r20mr33046661ljc.42.1560813660082; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:21:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA7D54@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA7D54@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:20:45 +0900 Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization@ietf.org" , RTGWG , opsawg@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c515ff058b8d3f79" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Questions regarding the draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:21:08 -0000 --000000000000c515ff058b8d3f79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, much appreciate your kind consideration of my comments, detailed responses to all questions. Few followup notes in-line tagged GIM2>>. Regards, Greg On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 8:22 PM wrote: > Hi Greg, > > > > Thank you for the comments. > > > > Please see inline. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mardi 9 avril 2019 15:33 > *=C3=80 :* draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization@ietf.org; RTGW= G > *Objet :* Questions regarding the > draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization > > > > Dear Authors, > > I have some questions related to OAM aspect of service and network > management automation and much appreciate your consideration: > > - I couldn't find Networking Working Group to which the draft seems to > be attributed. In your opinion, in which of IETF WGs you see this work= to > be the most relevant? > > [Med] OPSAWG is a candidate target. > > - I couldn't find any reference to the process of Sevice Activation > Testing (SAT) in the document. Are you planning to cover it later or > see the absence of any SAT work at IETF as an obstacle to completing t= he > closed-loop lifecycle for a service? > > [Med] We do explicitly refer to: > > o Dynamic feedback mechanisms that are meant to assess how > > efficiently a given policy (or a set thereof) is enforced from a > > service fulfillment and assurance perspective. > > Models that fall under that item can be listed, if any. > > - Figure in Section 3 "Network Service and Resource Models" refers to > OAM and PM separately. Do you see PM not being part of overall OAM > toolset? > > [Med] It is part of OAM. A better name could be used. That=E2=80=99 said,= the > intent was to cover connectivity check matters separately from PM. > GIM2>> I'd propose to use "Fault Management OAM". Continuity Check and Connectivity Verification tools usually viewed as part of a Fault Management OAM toolset. These tools can further be characterized as proactive or on-demand (some may be used in both modes). An example of the former in IETF is, clearly, BFD, and in the latter group are all variances of echo request/reply method. > > - in Section 3.1.2 in regard to LIME models, you've stated: "These thr= ee > models can be used to provide consistent reporting, configuration and > representation." Do you have evidence in support of this statement? > > [Med] That is what the lime effort was about; hence the =E2=80=9Ccan=E2= =80=9D. > GIM2>> Without the evidence of its use (I recall that the LIME WG published three models) I'd use less assertive language. Perhaps "may be" or "is intended to". > > - Figure 2 lists BFD, LSP Ping, and MPLS-TP models under OAM. In your > opinion, are these three models sufficient to perform 'F' and 'P' of F= CAPS > network management, i.e., Fault Management and Performance Monitoring, > adequately? (Should note that LSP Ping and MPLS-TP YANG models are onl= y > individual drafts); > > [Med] Obviously, that list is not exhaustive. > > Regards, > > Greg > --000000000000c515ff058b8d3f79 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med,
much appreciate your kind con= sideration of my comments, detailed responses to all questions. Few followu= p notes in-line tagged GIM2>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 8:22 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

=C2=A0

Thank you for the comments.

=C2=A0

Please see inline.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mardi 9 avril 2019 15:33
=C3=80=C2=A0: draft-wu-model-driven-management-vi= rtualization@ietf.org; RTGWG
Objet=C2=A0: Questions regarding the draft-wu-model-driven-managemen= t-virtualization

=C2=A0

Dear Authors,

I have some questions related to OAM aspect of servi= ce and network management automation and much appreciate your consideration= :

  • I couldn't find Networking Working Group to which the draft seems to be= attributed. In your opinion, in which of IETF WGs you see this work to be = the most relevant?

[Med] OPSAWG is a candidate targe= t.

  • I couldn't find any reference to the process of Se= vice Activation Testing (SAT) in the document. Are you planning to cover it later or see the absence of any SAT wor= k at IETF as an=C2=A0obstacle=C2=A0to completing the closed-loop lifecycle = for a service?

[Med] We do explicitly refer to:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0o=C2=A0 Dynamic feedback me= chanisms that are meant to assess how

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 efficiently a = given policy (or a set thereof) is enforced from a

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 service fulfil= lment and assurance perspective.

Models that fall under that item = can be listed, if any.

  • Figure in Section 3 "Network Service and Resource= Models" refers to OAM and PM separately. Do you see PM not being part of overall=C2=A0OAM toolset?<= /u>

[Med] It is part of OAM. A better= name could be used. That=E2=80=99 said, the intent was to cover connectivi= ty check matters separately from PM.

=
GIM2>> I'd propose to use "Fault Man= agement OAM". Continuity Check and Connectivity Verification tools usu= ally viewed as part of a Fault Management OAM toolset. These tools can furt= her be characterized as proactive or on-demand (some may be used in both mo= des). An example of the former in IETF is, clearly, BFD, and in the latter = group are all variances of echo request/reply method.

  • in Section 3.1.2 in regard to LIME models, you've = stated: "These three models can be used to provide consistent r= eporting, configuration and representation." Do you have evidence=C2= =A0in support=C2=A0of this statement?

[Med] That is what the lime effor= t was about; hence the =E2=80=9Ccan=E2=80=9D.

<= /div>
GIM2>> Without the evidence of its= use (I recall that the LIME WG published three models) I'd use less as= sertive language. Perhaps "may be" or "is intended to".=

  • Figure 2 lists BFD, LSP Ping, and MPLS-TP models under OAM. In your opinion= , are these three models sufficient=C2=A0to perform 'F' and 'P&= #39; of FCAPS network management, i.e., Fault Management and Performance=C2= =A0Monitoring, adequately? (Should note that LSP Ping and MPLS-TP YANG models are only individual drafts);

[Med] Obviously, that list is not= exhaustive. =C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

--000000000000c515ff058b8d3f79-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 22:29:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29614120118; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:29:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVv9G4v6Utlg; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED1FF12004A; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45Sc8j6pPyzBsqk; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:29:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.104]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45Sc8j5h1xzCqkT; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:29:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::193b:bc32:1ad3:362d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:29:41 +0200 From: To: Greg Mirsky CC: "draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization@ietf.org" , RTGWG , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Questions regarding the draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization Thread-Index: AQHU7tjLqh7EV8kSYkmYVgZEnHqEZaagHEdwgACrFICAAIO+8A== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA8640@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA7D54@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA8640OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Questions regarding the draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:29:50 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA8640OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EAA8640OPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 23:39:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3504B12016C; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:39:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZedzigA5gFP; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50523120130; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 165511FB82FDA050665D; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:38:55 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:38:54 +0100 Received: from lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) by lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:38:54 +0100 Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:38:54 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:38:49 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Thread-Index: AdUlnjTipSvhe5jaRA+rxdJVbLMgFg== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:38:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:39:00 -0000 Hi WG, This document was presented in Prague, and got good feedback. The authors h= ave addressed all the comments. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi/ The chairs think this informational draft is easy to be implemented, and go= t good support. This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption.=20 If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give an ind= ication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you will be wi= lling to review and help the draft. If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for work o= n this topic, please say why. This poll will run until 2nd July. Regards, Tianran & Joe From nobody Mon Jun 17 23:57:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875F6120435; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dZSxFL1DmdvA; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B38B5120432; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2654A70E84F4885EE1C8; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:57:33 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:57:32 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:55:03 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Thread-Index: AdUlop1wW9QKsoHpQ5m56GurL70K3A== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:55:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:57:37 -0000 Hi WG, Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04? If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-wkumari-opsawg= -sdi-04, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance with = IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to thi= s email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aware o= f any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage until a= response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG mailing= list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that has = not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thank you for kind support. Regards, Tianran & Joe From nobody Tue Jun 18 00:21:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7272120194 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 00:21:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1QgkOSSBNfgv for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 00:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendh.mailex.chinaunicom.cn (sendh.mailex.chinaunicom.cn [210.53.66.231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B841200F8 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 00:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 0a000f36-f79366d000006463-33-5d0890ff4015 Received: from M10-HQ-MLCEN01.cnc.intra ( [10.249.212.31]) by sendh.mailex.chinaunicom.cn (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 3D.0A.25699.FF0980D5; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:21:35 +0800 (HKT) Received: from M10-HQ-ML12.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.82) by M10-HQ-MLCEN01.cnc.intra (10.249.212.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:21:35 +0800 Received: from Leo (10.122.203.1) by M10-HQ-ML12.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:21:30 +0800 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:21:31 +0800 From: "liuc131@chinaunicom.cn" To: opsawg X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7, 1, 3, 52[cn] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <201906181521308728984@chinaunicom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart874073555533_=----" X-Originating-IP: [10.122.203.1] X-ClientProxiedBy: M10-HQ-MLF04.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.53) To M10-HQ-ML12.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.82) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXC9fOKvO7/CRyxBkuahS1WnNzM5MDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujGOXexgLOiQq9j1oYGtgPCraxcjBISFgInFzin4XIyeQKSZx 4d56ti5GLg4hgYOMEn135jFDODsYJY4s2c8C4SxilLg6fw0bSAuLgKrE0gVb2UFsNgFziXtn zoLZIgIyEqfO3WQGsYUFrCXOdS5jh1jBKzGj/SkLhC0gcXPLBDYIW1FizYefYDW8AoISJ2c+ YYGwjSTur10CFmcWCJPYMeMuK8jVQgLKEt9fe0C0Kkjs+nOKEcLOkui8uoF1AqPQLCSTZiHp ngXUzSygJdG7Sx8irCgxpfshO4StKfHt53omCFtbYtnC18wLGNlWMXIF+7pbGFsY6PqbbGIE hTgDv9kOxh9LXA8xCnAwKvHwXuhjjxViTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwjvVmCNWiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0 J7X4EKM0B4uSOO+XH19ihATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYxs5rrcYu/i/vz19KicPitw6uFv 8jN27uiRk2X/5e7/sPvFunUJtSuVd1v3it/QPN9i7PtPbs+p8y/Xbtsos71+opXj50nXxQta bXNKYj+/vh6+/PmStYsz7xrpXl8c5Zhio1hxMzghxCwlRr7674tlkpqe/Z67bXr5vELiV+em bPc/dVRn2z0lluKMREMt5qLiRABWs/1ZbQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] review of draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:21:41 -0000 ------=_001_NextPart874073555533_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBBdXRob3JzLA0KDQogICAgQ29tcG9zZWQgVlBOIGlzIHZlcnkgZ29vZCBpZGVhIGluIG15 IG9waW5pb24sIGp1c3QgbGlrZSBjb21wb3NpdGUgdHVubmVscywgaXQgY2FuIGJlIHVzZWQgaW4g YSBncm91cCBvZiBQRXMgYXR0YWNoZWQgdG90aGUgc2FtZSBWUE4gdGVuYW50IG5ldHdvcmssIHdl IGNhbiBzdGl0Y2ggZGlmZmVyZW50IHR1bm5lbCBpbiBlYWNoIGRvbWFpbiB0b2dldGhlciBpbnRv IGVuZCB0byBlbmQgdHVubmVsLCBvbiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgaGFuZCx3ZSBjYW4gYWxzbyBtYW5hZ2Ug dHVubmVsIGluIGVhY2ggZG9tYWluIHNlcGFyYXRlbHkgYmFzZWQgb24gc2VydmljZSBpbnRlbnQg ZGVzY3JpYmVkIGJ5IHRoZSBjb21wb3NlZCBWUE4gbW9kZWwuDQoNCiAgICBPbmUgcXVpY2sgcXVl c3Rpb24gaXMgaXQgaXMgbm90IGNsZWFyIHRvIG1lIGlmIGVhY2ggc2VnbWVudCB2cG4gc2VsZWN0 IGRpZmZlcmVudCB0dW5uZWwgdHlwZSwgd2hhdCB0dW5uZWwgdHlwZSBsb29rIGxpa2UgaW4gdGhl IGNvbXBvc2VkIFZQTj8NCg0KVGhhbmtzDQoNCg0KDQpMaXUgQ2hhbmcNCkNoaW5hIFVuaWNvbQ0K RW1haWw6IGxpdWMxMzFAY2hpbmF1bmljb20uY24NClBob25lOiArODYxODYwMTEwMjU3Mg0KVGVs OiAwMTAtNjg3OTk5OTktNzI5NA== ------=_001_NextPart874073555533_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors,
 
    Composed VPN= is very=20 good idea in my opinion, just like composite tunnels, it can be used in a = group=20 of PEs attached tothe same VPN tenant network, we can stitch different tun= nel in=20 each domain together into end to end tunnel, on the other hand,we can also= =20 manage tunnel in each domain separately based on service intent described = by the=20 composed VPN model.
 
    One quick question is it is not clear to me if eac= h=20 segment vpn select different tunnel type, what tunnel type look like in th= e=20 composed VPN?
 
Thanks
Liu=20 Chang
China Unicom
Email: liuc131@chinaunicom.cn
Phone= :=20 +8618601102572
Tel: 010-68799999-7294
 ------=_001_NextPart874073555533_=------ From nobody Tue Jun 18 07:16:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A4612010D for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUb9E2tESMc9 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82e.google.com (mail-qt1-x82e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D7A5120105 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82e.google.com with SMTP id h21so15423263qtn.13 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=O7y1nyd5iY1cTTyL4F0rRSU0N2FUftLJWtVl106HjUE=; b=KxgUXSNRiiayRYwejrk4SvxnAUtN5NuFFd8PiNbuZvN2bgaUuvrv4lneq+7exqDuKS n3O7Kz0vz3zFZ05V+u/WVHETEJYnSBKNpqNVnpL+zuUlBXyZlbRcWLKrMEW7mlyRGD1i gn4XKIyetswZIKDtuBrPAhROHwD4ejGIbHGoX/l5+MiMT4D+HcGVyYKPFEmYvA13g4xT NIk1N2wbtdUONxHJhpmL40PEkZ0oGGVbDApAXe1nBAFnjPA0lKNACDfqXtTNyo4xZI12 VMMPSRQ14+5gM1FRGxH3DHwqcMlu+CR9KrDBP0fs7jSW5lkgN0w3IyaNU0Ri+5bjIUJA qOdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=O7y1nyd5iY1cTTyL4F0rRSU0N2FUftLJWtVl106HjUE=; b=rfK6K06XZthJjH5wATrU2MHAuHAIOb0E1ETxs/8iwmKbYGBexsMjykCUQEdzmjB1OZ xb6h7GH2wSjmTv+EE1P6SWSJ1jmpfD7T180hvSyoz8KzeL0XdN6heARYXZtcdShZjpVu 5lIpS4NHVniTnJz4J8m88qimb9lM+pW6xbZF6h/Nd9ZHr1sbu/yrVGKUXgp8p7BJYojb gSsgWxq8Md8sDkNq51GdOSFe+aIeEaVvzsGO6a2W6cs9zgyKmwTrUVEBUsrjzDKGkxWn ZBFOBdTYlEXe4rTAyHP0PlQohAmwNDHPPkf7UslQ6wa/zd3CmK5ycD8pXVAsXXjwRM49 cC4g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXAc5sh3Xz1zgC+J0mqmyUL9+Vm9ucEqBGmd/+iLTtHcpAvxTND jMwgrrlfNhjjlyQSGLRMGsbmhnbZ28gCCtMrHs7j9g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqycS/8LktLMCcGqf+lss1YCJWPuR14SG7VAPeHlNXiGbzCkQl9fE2FXdCF3CYfIu7h5e7jlZMsZBL7+ce33F04= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:87ab:: with SMTP id 40mr26679537qvj.93.1560867364967; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:15:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:16:09 -0000 On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:57 AM Tianran Zhou wrote= : > > Hi WG, > > Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04? I confirm that I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi Thanks for checking, W > > If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-wkumari-opsa= wg-sdi-04, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance wit= h IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to t= his email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aware= of any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage until= a response has been received from each author and contributor. > > If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG maili= ng list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that ha= s not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > Thank you for kind support. > > Regards, > Tianran & Joe > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Tue Jun 18 11:06:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C8112040D; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 11:06:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=frj8eoJJ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=X+B/IgYC Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GhnivCwRWoVI; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=mGL3dOKOuyQfZa0aK5vTM7dSaO0CPH+i6S9wq2DrKks=; b=X+B/IgYCLHs2rtzaH97Sl2BCS6g0cgf4FVTd28b028swcX4zDni9miqe2REfMNB3QQWvrUaXx/1J1aGyrw6fYqqIFoD/IuTd7AMbbqMW1jCWWsEbMollsfmk5Obihfh9yyAr+JU5GJ5dpdPowmTVSlpjaMfFzMh3NK3stKRof/0= Received: from CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.141.118.161) by CH2PR11MB4389.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.141.127.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1987.15; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:06:23 +0000 Received: from CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9930:6012:eab6:73a1]) by CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9930:6012:eab6:73a1%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1987.014; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:06:23 +0000 From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" To: Tianran Zhou CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Thread-Index: AdUlop1wW9QKsoHpQ5m56GurL70K3AAXeu0A Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:06:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jclarke@cisco.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:CH2PR11MB4389; H:CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Vt0BFGSDMDrjGRPu0t/nLLrz7fcrUJP9fp8ChmMy2n7eLkfohWuZgjUQVkK3ve3589Nrbp/3ZxBBBs72rcohV5tNWclQCCFr4eucybE9wvjfv0XvbJmA++FWqF2hck+rwaJzEqsxNJ5fZaM/j7u5Cgvf7YX6aq0yTQpqayreQFAEqnE/KpZJsPVZcE3IUclrN5Dv89kINy7W+npThNMYwx90nTvJRHWoNTkhTb30M0yffroNqm3tLPwLsMCDOip49HABwByL7gyjN395LjCdFtkajfHWLzXplQl+ZDpdxupPo3tvrLXPRscb1rs632KYpMm6V9TyYpLpMwv33p251L1vpepRcsxGQjYaBjOxPaOiX0jfcZzkGmOkWOJ55DA4mQ0BZrCuI9/c/Vlb6EczSiqo4acFtGMOKSvqBwsk8os= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <280C2CC3C363734D908420B17E7E1DB8@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 133b6e37-f31e-46f3-0b9e-08d6f417ac4b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jun 2019 18:06:23.0379 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jclarke@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR11MB4389 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.24, xch-rcd-014.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-9.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:06:29 -0000 > On Jun 18, 2019, at 02:55, Tianran Zhou wrote: >=20 > Hi WG, >=20 > Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll. >=20 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04? >=20 > If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-wkumari-opsa= wg-sdi-04, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance wit= h IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). >=20 > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to t= his email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aware= of any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage until= a response has been received from each author and contributor. >=20 > If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG maili= ng list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that ha= s not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. >=20 > Thank you for kind support. As an acknowledged contributor, I am not aware of any IPR on this draft. Joe= From nobody Tue Jun 18 14:08:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8704C12029C for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:08:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FFLo0ftbf4M6 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4566212019C for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id a27so9542812qkk.5 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+kPrsUSVmHA3ZyQTMqfbnSFxXCUKhObSBrxFed61VgE=; b=w688cZYVjEy/v1u2efgJSedht+4SFDT9WdHMV06YAMb9mSHzim1BBJg0hXZ7mnlfzP zvKKwr87gXeBK9gLNI9gKNEQpoVZDIvpRSyGTgvhtmM/oaKDJf+0HMIsyUvSlZPjTJOl vO/5JBda1OjCKuTPYJuwT9EoaFxek83EYfAKtkbC+yVmwRJhRfpIFuTMdLDShJj4cEzv /LZtjgJpniZ4NZkevm9MqyUQ3bTlaFPqFx4nhoAmsVWW1f59CC+px0uqkMMqBtGz1Scr D7otdKyxvO4esGIyItA0X+4maydw26VpmGSSGxbVf6M3ftgkRD+rjKNsqaNzuvgBVyZp QxGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+kPrsUSVmHA3ZyQTMqfbnSFxXCUKhObSBrxFed61VgE=; b=j46Vter8cL1qq++rVpd4sl4aJKZX9svirlU3+cf7c1DIF0DjXBHuVP4hRLCqP72n49 r6CXfpP6UGFlxxMDLXzPGCN3va1pbqiG1BCB4KP0WNUFTx7O1oJinsMNX285UhXtF9dF 86Q2b7rnbEEtQhsbNMWMKkzigvtKtAodQjFASX1mbmM39cfQkxytVrsp2OUze206e0lL xb4RpxdTEvwM08olb8R3NsAy3CzpIP4lTfUaxw1r4l9HJShcHVqlNc5OVC4Kdk55zAi5 EXVwztGAFknQmB4g8mJ5bcSvDIMEqiqW4H+BVZlNiYAyp0ZHBQOlkW7Zk5DQSE/Zy2ZE 2wCA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVV6ajd/0D0QQt0zz7UIGIYiNMWQkZDPOCcNmqZ+TkwAGLcBFBZ u6vCKUUJ+tyrMyWX7x/qeFUGiO+6uuFV8tnkffHaTA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzOaY0VpxZhf3ucLc/eu2qCnYRtAf+iEkm4+124VMDc/jCZ9hXoCFNoNdguITVypei4ai5THWeLjXZhYiaHyCM= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ef47:: with SMTP id d68mr1770612qkg.225.1560892133029; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:08:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:08:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:08:59 -0000 Dear OpsAWG, Here is a link to the slidedeck from IETF104 to refresh your memory - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-opsawg-draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-01.pdf -- basically the entire document is summarized in 2 slides (slide 9, 10). If you'd prefer video -- https://youtu.be/a479Zohc5yg?t=1266 The main design criteria for this was to be as simple as possible, to make it trivial to implement and use. This is specifically designed to just augment existing auto-install functionality; there are much more ambitious and fully featured solutions (such as ANIMA and RFC 8572) available for those who can / want to use them. I'd really appreciate your review and comment; it's short (if you ignore the ASCII art diagrams and example appendix and similar it is 7 or 8 pages, and much of that is background). W On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:39 AM Tianran Zhou wrote: > > Hi WG, > > This document was presented in Prague, and got good feedback. The authors have addressed all the comments. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi/ > > The chairs think this informational draft is easy to be implemented, and got good support. > > This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. > If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give an indication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you will be willing to review and help the draft. > If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for work on this topic, please say why. > This poll will run until 2nd July. > > Regards, > Tianran & Joe > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Tue Jun 18 14:19:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7106C12019C; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=Os+J6PXE; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=kYnK8Fsy Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mkno7CVIfN4i; 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=9GxCt5VyTx5M9X1xLNbxJpXNY60LP4iE+AAUcmGKm30=; b=kYnK8FsyI4uf0lCccm+xxMpzgTeS/iE+oM4CpbgUnSr8UdR1Apfk2vOLCM5m9fu644EfvgslRQM5uH/svSmccOT5FezItLne9IMOC2/zhlpChM5McuHtOzlAdctMO8FtoFKbMstONbEu98tHu9jzqnUIO01eCXNUKgd6Gk7qMak= Received: from CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.141.118.161) by CH2PR11MB4469.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.186.148.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1987.7; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:19:46 +0000 Received: from CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9930:6012:eab6:73a1]) by CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9930:6012:eab6:73a1%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1987.014; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:19:46 +0000 From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" To: Warren Kumari CC: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Thread-Index: AdUlnjTipSvhe5jaRA+rxdJVbLMgFgAe72AAAABmq4A= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:19:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jclarke@cisco.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:CH2PR11MB4469; H:CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: SrTWKDx/6/tMfrFdYvTcXORVo0sQ8iEw0HOGaFIvcelo7q+/jrYW/yoNvqbCK27bu6MyI6nRUrvb1gMB+eIr10nHjxrOZmFfpgFo9bU4aO5/RsOMCX0uq6TJDvJ9qwuGMiry5QBfZcV8GL928BxZD5RuQLw8OcmAnpLne9ujB6pdPU05ZgAUZp7BzhXAlsCB113iOB4fmfq6xXyxtOBcg0VjnwqBDFQUQSPs/1bw7Nm/ijtgez5dZ8xfzBTaiwwNHpuIl7DVAvwoq1vERGD5J+0eM4ce9s0m+/0oWtCBs8cnCcHFlLuFn7IZ9Nv4qPMhVp2MQKrlSm/P7bACgfvEADd5xcqR9c22LPphJamVTqPpFfQUWxhLL44y1BXTv+FIOAwzgmyVgBnzb+f0fTCbGpbkjj8ZnZ3CKB/fa178bzQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bd5029c5-6355-4e18-f471-08d6f432b069 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jun 2019 21:19:46.3580 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jclarke@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR11MB4469 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:19:54 -0000 I have reviewed the material and the draft (latest). As an individual, I s= upport adoption of this draft as a WG item. Joe > On Jun 18, 2019, at 17:08, Warren Kumari wrote: >=20 > Dear OpsAWG, >=20 > Here is a link to the slidedeck from IETF104 to refresh your memory - > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-opsawg-draf= t-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-01.pdf > -- basically the entire document is summarized in 2 slides (slide 9, > 10). > If you'd prefer video -- https://youtu.be/a479Zohc5yg?t=3D1266 >=20 > The main design criteria for this was to be as simple as possible, to > make it trivial to implement and use. This is specifically designed to > just augment existing auto-install functionality; there are much more > ambitious and fully featured solutions (such as ANIMA and RFC 8572) > available for those who can / want to use them. >=20 > I'd really appreciate your review and comment; it's short (if you > ignore the ASCII art diagrams and example appendix and similar it is 7 > or 8 pages, and much of that is background). > W >=20 > On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:39 AM Tianran Zhou wro= te: >>=20 >> Hi WG, >>=20 >> This document was presented in Prague, and got good feedback. The author= s have addressed all the comments. >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi/ >>=20 >> The chairs think this informational draft is easy to be implemented, and= got good support. >>=20 >> This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. >> If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give an = indication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you will be= willing to review and help the draft. >> If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for wor= k on this topic, please say why. >> This poll will run until 2nd July. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Tianran & Joe >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> OPSAWG mailing list >> OPSAWG@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad > idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > of pants. > ---maf From nobody Tue Jun 18 17:47:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AAC0120183; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:47:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4xE3Alhh5qT0; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [IPv6:2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:de77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3416C12003E; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [75.98.19.132]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C35B1F450; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 00:47:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id BAA501328; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:47:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Warren Kumari cc: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg\@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Warren Kumari message dated "Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:08:16 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:47:13 -0400 Message-ID: <14049.1560905233@dooku.sandelman.ca> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 00:47:10 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Warren Kumari wrote: > Here is a link to the slidedeck from IETF104 to refresh your memory - > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-opsawg-draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-01.pdf > -- basically the entire document is summarized in 2 slides (slide 9, > 10). If you'd prefer video -- https://youtu.be/a479Zohc5yg?t=1266 > The main design criteria for this was to be as simple as possible, to > make it trivial to implement and use. This is specifically designed to > just augment existing auto-install functionality; there are much more > ambitious and fully featured solutions (such as ANIMA and RFC 8572) > available for those who can / want to use them. Your claim that BRSKI is too complex is interesting, and I'd like to discuss this with you over beer. But, I appreciate you trying to do this. Saving CO2 expended by silly airplane flights is appreciated. We did consider a protocol such as you describe. The limitation is that it does not necessarily enroll the new device into the ISP's security domain, and we really wanted that. The Config file provided could do that, and as you say, some staging mechanism could also use ssh to do that as well. But, that wouldn't really be a standard, and we needed something more specific. I think you need a bit more text to explain why the device should trust the DHCP server; and also how the owner convinces the manufacturer to turn over this key. As written, it looks like if I get a good look at the label of a BFR I have a good chance of getting the key, and I'm sure you intend something more involved. It's unclear to me if this key should be retained in the factory reset situation or not; I think you offer both possibilities, but each version has some security gotchas, and I think it needs to be explained. I would like you to consider specifying a standard format for the encrypted configuration. CMS, PGP, JOSE, COSE... pick one or more. That way, we can have tools that can support a multiple of vendors equipment. Failing such a choice, I don't see anything in this description which a manufacturer can't unilaterally do today. So maybe it's a BCP, and and it can go into an RFP. I don't think it's Informational: BCP or STD. > I'd really appreciate your review and comment; it's short (if you > ignore the ASCII art diagrams and example appendix and similar it is 7 > or 8 pages, and much of that is background). W Adopt it. ps: it would be nice if the initial DHCP request included a MUD URL, so that the infrastructure can know what the device is expected to do, particularly if that might involve calling home to get the latest firmware before operating. Should the device get any kind of Internet access from the DHCP server? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAl0JhhEACgkQlUzhVv38 QpAnfwf/REzIbU1XAU0cL56j3nRdcposYyavl34KJngw/GlO6iFhL4u6vbY3RHhN s1LVkfHrZnZCzncK7gWhDYOpvHoFQB4HSJvfBTBULuwmsQ47j14gHUttYUrrImps MDxXewP+ZsSt5u0xevCFkGI80n+DlfriRxpgpWfh0LYae8g0Cf8e/qfDRaC7Ee6f gxDCkxBMp0RySb56jAIprqQuq1IBT6upguGv+2Momy0NzKtUbuBpJ4G9AOsIf8ve +wC3kFuGHsKTXO1C/VJZezcElr3fkmv48fQRb0sLHOD7B448TxXRUoOfp5xBbyWg 6Zn/tnjEtynANFSokWJQTT/e2LtyKw== =aSnR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jun 20 06:05:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0ED120041 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:05:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: 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14.3.408.0; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:05:02 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 21:05:00 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 21:05:00 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: wangzitao , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" , wangzitao CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02.txt Thread-Index: AdUnZZmkeV1/j+rlQCe9o08/xprGNw== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:04:59 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: 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id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:11:00 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Qin Wu , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt Thread-Index: AdUn2AsXjyLgN7rjSFKc6ovUA1F6+wABRqAA Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 03:11:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 03:11:19 -0000 SGkgUWluIGFuZCB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycywNCg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdmFsdWFibGUgd29y 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dXMgd2F5cyIuIEFuZCBzZWN0aW9uIDEwLjUgb24gQmVzdA0KICAgIFByYWN0aWNlcyB3aGljaCBo YXMgdGhlIG5ldyByZXN0cmljdGlvbiB0aGF0IGl0IG5vdCBiZSBkZXBsb3llZA0KICAgIHdpdGgg b3RoZXIgdHJhZmZpYy4gVGhpcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpcyBuZWVkZWQgbXVjaA0KICAgIGVhcmxp ZXIgaW4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIGdpdmUgY29udGV4dCBmb3IgdGhlIHJlYWRlci4NCg0KVEE+ IEFncmVlZCwgd2Ugd2lsbCBhdWdtZW50IHRoZSBpbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24gYXMgYWR2aXNlZCBbQUkt VEFdDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Jun 21 23:03:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8214D120148; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:03:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA22120282; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:52:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y45RRhWsnNwO; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56BE312027F; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B061F62E7858530B450D; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:51:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by 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opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA06712009E for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:37:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qhkq_unrvEI3 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ABEA120019 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C8E94F55D3539D4865A6 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:37:42 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:37:42 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.134]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:34:44 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Qin Wu , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt Thread-Index: AdUn4716jyLgN7rjSFKc6ovUA1F6+wCT7MvA Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt 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(UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dcmgash@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1290 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.23, xch-aln-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:59:45 -0000 TWFueSB0aGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBjb21tZW50cy4NCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSByZXNwb25zZXMgZnJv bSBhdXRob3JzIGlubGluZSwgbWFya2VkIOKAnFRB4oCdLiBBY3Rpb24gaXRlbXMgZnJvbSB0aGlz 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Thread-Index: AQHVKH0/4+BqFba6hUydaVkqVIhKFKaqVKmQ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:13:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <156115462540.17720.10471877460863413806.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156115462540.17720.10471877460863413806.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] FW: IETF 105 Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:13:30 -0000 SGkgV0csDQoNClRoZSBwcmVsaW1pbmFyeSBhZ2VuZGEgZm9yIElFVEYxMDUgaXMgcHVibGlzaGVk LiBUaGUgT1BTQVdHIG1lZXRpbmcgaXMgc2NoZWR1bGVkIG9uIFdFRE5FU0RBWSwgSnVseSAyNCwg 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aWxhYmxlIHRocm91Z2hvdXQgdGhlIHdlZWsgYXMgdXN1YWwuIEZ1cnRoZXIgZGV0YWlscyBhYm91 dCBob3cgdG8gc2lnbiB1cCBmb3IgYSBtZWV0aW5nIHJvb20gd2lsbCBiZSBhbm5vdW5jZWQgc2hv cnRseS4NCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IQ0KDQpJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg== From nobody Sun Jun 23 23:43:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AED5120113 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:43:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5F5BJOXAzTVT for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CC78120111 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 89BC8711C533CA2A1FD4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:43:18 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:43:17 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:43:09 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt Thread-Index: AdUqV/4Ot+j3O9r+TXqcsaM6SKfRWA== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:43:09 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:43:23 -0000 LS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IFRpYW5yYW4gWmhvdSANCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE5 xOo21MIyNMjVIDEwOjM1DQrK1bz+yMs6IFFpbiBXdSA8YmlsbC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgb3Bz YXdnQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBSRTogSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtd3UtbW9kZWwtZHJpdmVu LW1hbmFnZW1lbnQtdmlydHVhbGl6YXRpb24tMDQudHh0DQoNCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IFFpbiBXdQ0KPiBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEp1bmUgMjEsIDIw 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Dear Authors,
 
Thank for writing this draft and I understand the problem described i= n this=20 draft and believe it is real problem that needs to be solved.
I have a few comments on this draft:
 
1.       Section 2, 2nd paragraph
The augmentations facilitate the use the resulting model in communica= tions=20 with the transport orchestrator, also known as the MDSC (Multi-Domain Serv= ice=20 Coordinator) in the terminology of the framework for Abstraction and Contr= ol of=20 TE Networks (ACTN) defined in RFC 8453 [RFC8453].
is it better to use transport resource orchestrator or resource=20 orchestrator which is consistent with the first paragraph with  the=20 following text =A1=B0=A1=ADfull control of transport resources=A1=B1
 
2.More complex deployment scenarios involving the coordination of dif= ferent=20 VPN instances and different technologies to provide end-to-end VPN connect= ivity=20 is out of scope of this document, but is discussed in=20 [I-D.evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn].
We have implemented composed VPN, I am wondering whether there is any= =20 generic solution which cover both case?
 
3.       Section 3.2
I think whether PE is controller by the same management system or mul= tiple=20 management systems, RT allocation is needed.
 
4.       Section 3.2
Is RD synchronization issue implementation specific? If yes, it shoul= d be=20 spelled out explicitly
 
Thanks
Liu=20 Chang
China Unicom
Email: liuc131@chinaunicom.cn
Phone= :=20 +8618601102572
Tel:=20 010-68799999-7294
------=_001_NextPart801382137525_=------ From nobody Mon Jun 24 01:38:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7C8A120114 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:38:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BtdsteroGF9Z for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com (mail-qt1-x82c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E3C7120048 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82c.google.com with SMTP id p15so13615181qtl.3 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:38:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ug5kZcYQAD2q6mjhOeyWkt51O/f527M4VoB2+y6hYsE=; b=UTywL0RAeZpZC3mtl8F3VztcStzW8JhBRnXflS2sVqalWqRoHtyctQJ6x/M3FzFizj YqvhGNLzTCMSaqL0bNDeb7ZzC41nPtaj+MWGzDG+6d9xgtj78gqB/VrrNkzSYpqz52tx F7vZL6W6cfBbXe1L6EHxHyiys335VVOW16KjutxN4+rfFvMnJssrYDgQqzEf1zXhTn0N aDt/vUuhU8HR8QfVn9/x9zyBvuzC33myfDYCOxmkqnWHoyOFCCEaj1d+znT/jMjPke++ FMFzlzeShugPeGLmJ1tI6TRA9nM9WS9jw5G5okFPRDtr6rsvfNYOFynQsdNkuavUalxy 4LNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ug5kZcYQAD2q6mjhOeyWkt51O/f527M4VoB2+y6hYsE=; b=PvGZSmtCtAi7/2mnbULC0F/dEHnqqTxTwepNdFYwMeAeJnY2BKmkvny2Ku5JdaJr2z cPrFMlQ1OxHOQPNKvt+dIysQQg67bnQ8BliuyCkuM6uScNT2v8balBoA7ff2XA/QKc6x louSI9UdGNX5bjOIMhfNIFlTV/bAbYMyI2bLweGlvxgYgtj9JZW4yCnkSfW5RXz/+aY4 bnYHR/i2hynVBYJOZ+S0IUPcn722KsN77htZVn/tBHnUdhS7zPgUviaKqeLJiKX5Ywio cb96/f1TfhyhVOsYmjeYJlqe+TDwHCuDLFkSp03e2ShjArPUSlboIFMwPt66wRuLBnlT vTiA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXvpEcv/6VipQ+8xfTGL2IXI20+eg5p8SXjfwodWqXquVauPQve LOCbgTBlrj6gn9f5bIrQC+aD57UtZtRbCSJ4k9FyMQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzqu0BDNJD73Dx0nKaOmDky45lkWGy1hyzalFayhMF0lIBtkuofFcFZD4bFjm05XfXVSklcqknTf18Ma8WB+Fc= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3811:: with SMTP id q17mr97806188qtb.315.1561365480045; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:38:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:37:21 +0100 Message-ID: To: Qin Wu Cc: Michael Richardson , "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:38:04 -0000 On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:51 AM Qin Wu wrote: > > Interesting, try to understand the key difference between device enroll i= n secure environment and device enroll in in secure environment? I'm unsure what you are asking; I'm guessing perhaps you meant "in an insecure environment"? This completely depends on what you mean by "insecure", but "probably". As always, once the device has been configured, if an attacker has physical access to the device, they can probably do things like unsolder the flash / nvram and read the config off that -- but that has nothing to do with this technology, it is an existing issue. If you use this mechanism to initially configure the device, and the network is compromised, and the attacker knows the serial number / UUID of the device, and the attacker can provide DHCP, the attacker *could* make the device download and install a config file --- this largely means that the attacker could (temporarily) steal the device - but threat seems a: unrealistic and b: the threat is minor / you have much larger issues :-) > Does the mechanism proposed in this draft work for the device behind the = firewall or NAT? Yes -- the device *only* needs to be able to download the (encrypted) config file, it doesn't need to contact anything else, nor does anything need reach the device. This means that it can be run behind a NAT, firewall, or a even a network which is completely disconnected from the Internet. > > -Qin Wu > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Michael Richardson > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8819=E6=97=A5 = 8:47 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Warren Kumari > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; OpsAWG Chairs > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsaw= g-sdi-04 > > > Warren Kumari wrote: > > Here is a link to the slidedeck from IETF104 to refresh your memory= - > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-opsaw= g-draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-01.pdf > > -- basically the entire document is summarized in 2 slides (slide 9= , > > 10). If you'd prefer video -- https://youtu.be/a479Zohc5yg?t=3D126= 6 > > > The main design criteria for this was to be as simple as possible, = to > > make it trivial to implement and use. This is specifically designed= to > > just augment existing auto-install functionality; there are much mo= re > > ambitious and fully featured solutions (such as ANIMA and RFC 8572) > > available for those who can / want to use them. > > Your claim that BRSKI is too complex is interesting, and I'd like to disc= uss this with you over beer. But, I appreciate you trying to do this. > Saving CO2 expended by silly airplane flights is appreciated. > > We did consider a protocol such as you describe. > The limitation is that it does not necessarily enroll the new device into= the ISP's security domain, and we really wanted that. > > The Config file provided could do that, and as you say, some staging mech= anism could also use ssh to do that as well. But, that wouldn't really be = a standard, and we needed something more specific. > > I think you need a bit more text to explain why the device should trust t= he DHCP server; and also how the owner convinces the manufacturer to turn o= ver this key. As written, it looks like if I get a good look at the label = of a BFR I have a good chance of getting the key, and I'm sure you intend s= omething more involved. > > It's unclear to me if this key should be retained in the factory reset si= tuation or not; I think you offer both possibilities, but each version has = some security gotchas, and I think it needs to be explained. > > I would like you to consider specifying a standard format for the encrypt= ed > configuration. CMS, PGP, JOSE, COSE... pick one or more. That way, we = can > have tools that can support a multiple of vendors equipment. > > Failing such a choice, I don't see anything in this description which a m= anufacturer can't unilaterally do today. So maybe it's a BCP, and and it c= an go into an RFP. I don't think it's Informational: BCP or STD. > > > I'd really appreciate your review and comment; it's short (if you > > ignore the ASCII art diagrams and example appendix and similar it i= s 7 > > or 8 pages, and much of that is background). W > > Adopt it. > > ps: it would be nice if the initial DHCP request included a MUD URL, so t= hat > the infrastructure can know what the device is expected to do, > particularly if that might involve calling home to get the latest > firmware before operating. > Should the device get any kind of Internet access from the DHCP serve= r? > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= =3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Mon Jun 24 02:48:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422EF12013A; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:48:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WaHe5FTt2DPK; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 215A3120033; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:48:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7756; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1561369712; x=1562579312; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=NQ4Kod0mJ1nykm9I2TrznMRBxJ80VrOxcUrzd8QT+uQ=; b=Cyge7XiM/i5h7hsftVUunpUohULtVjcDUe0q0DN64ZG9Onztx771Lfzh fTOKl3iQPsCRnMtkTmYJbic4umJcccVCYMSx4AB6ovqsFsWmCgOJQUIeH 1HBLgqqkWPtrMTIGUGLPOjE1RImuYe9PZnP8/sNPSvNwXEJK2qztDw5I8 Q=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BXAADYmxBd/xbLJq1kGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBZ4MBUQEgEiGEHYh7nm+HfQIHAQEBCQMBAR8QAQGEQIMMOBM?= =?us-ascii?q?BAwEBBAEBAgEFbYo3DIV0UQVdAmCDNAGCCgijJoExihwQgTSBUYokgX+BOB+?= =?us-ascii?q?CHoNChHgygiYEi3iHbluVSAmCFgOCG4EJgyaNFRuDE4oFii+NJoZZVoF1glG?= =?us-ascii?q?IBoMIAgQGBQIVgWchgVgzGggbFWUBgkIINYIKg2mKVT0DkGABAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,411,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="13528813" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 24 Jun 2019 09:48:30 +0000 Received: from [10.61.230.12] ([10.61.230.12]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5O9mT5k027185 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:48:29 GMT From: Eliot Lear Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_75954778-D2D0-4E16-AEA7-02E72DB2FF46"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:48:28 +0200 To: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.230.12, [10.61.230.12] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:48:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_75954778-D2D0-4E16-AEA7-02E72DB2FF46 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_62A13398-88DA-4634-9306-0D663869EFD6" --Apple-Mail=_62A13398-88DA-4634-9306-0D663869EFD6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi everyone, A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses = one gap in MUD (there are several). In a MUD file one can say that one = wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D = meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a = =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class name of controller. In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and = populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, = either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or = a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . = That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a = controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least = provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is = capable of serving in a particular role. To make that declaration, the device must- Form the declaration; Find the MUD manager; and Send it. Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and = then place it in various spots. Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose = device that has an app that is intended to be a controller? If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the = declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the = device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting. = In this case we have two choices: Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this = doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager. I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a = mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an = internal part of the network infrastructure. Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the = MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the = user infrastructure, which is a change. One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful = endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be = exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may = not. My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the = easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to = do the app version of this. Thoughts? Eliot --Apple-Mail=_62A13398-88DA-4634-9306-0D663869EFD6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = everyone,

A few of = us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses one gap in = MUD (there are several).  In a MUD file one can say that one wants = to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D = meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a = =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class name of controller.

In either case, right now the = administrator has to manually know and populate information, to say - = some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or a class http://example.com/mudclass1.  That can be = laborious.  To assist, we are examining ways to have a controller = declare itself as a candidate controller.  That at least provides a = hint to the administrator that this particular device is capable of = serving in a particular role.

To make that declaration, the device = must-
  • Form = the declaration;
  • Find the MUD manager; and
  • Send it.

Forming the declaration is easy: = we can make this a YANG grouping and then place it in various = spots.

Finding = the MUD manager depends on one question:
  • Was the device built to be a = controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app that is = intended to be a controller?

If the device was built to be a = controller, we can simply cram the declaration into that devices own MUD = file as an extension.  If the device is a general purpose computer, = things get a bit more interesting.  In this case we have two = choices:

  • Either create a MUD file that = points somewhere internally - this doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and = play.
  • Make the declaration directly to the MUD = manager.

I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. =  It is easy enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, = but it requires a mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up = until now has been an internal part of the network = infrastructure.

Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly = call the MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed = to the user infrastructure, which is a change.

One possibility to address this is to = incorporate the new RESTful endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, = which may already be exposed.  But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI = be in play, which it may not.

My thinking is that we do this work in = two stages.  First handle the easy case, which is the MUD file = extension, and then figure out how to do the app version of = this.

Thoughts?

Eliot

= --Apple-Mail=_62A13398-88DA-4634-9306-0D663869EFD6-- --Apple-Mail=_75954778-D2D0-4E16-AEA7-02E72DB2FF46 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iFwEARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRCcbAAKCRBugA9nE248 uJW/AJ0QqCMr6yJP/AMrYG80yHZkZKjXOQCY0H0YFcr8ujxp9yYWlFRSy1TAaQ== =7bd0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_75954778-D2D0-4E16-AEA7-02E72DB2FF46-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 03:24:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C13E212003F for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:24:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VEzXf1QH3F9I for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60EC71200C4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0FEEFD4E8C0020F22E98 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:24:38 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:24:37 +0100 Received: from lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) by lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:24:37 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:24:37 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM526-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.116]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:22:52 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: "liuc131@chinaunicom.cn" , opsawg Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] review of draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03 Thread-Index: AQHVJaaLhPmIc/WIW0yZJTQBeoDlB6aqodOA Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:22:52 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D3965C@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <201906181521308728984@chinaunicom.cn> In-Reply-To: <201906181521308728984@chinaunicom.cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.60] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D3965Cdggemm526mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] review of draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:24:43 -0000 --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D3965Cdggemm526mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Thanks for the review, as for the question the composed VPN can be l3vpn o= r l2vpn as mentioned in figure 2 Roni From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of liuc131@chinauni= com.cn Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:22 AM To: opsawg Subject: [OPSAWG] review of draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03 Dear Authors, Composed VPN is very good idea in my opinion, just like composite tunne= ls, it can be used in a group of PEs attached tothe same VPN tenant network= , we can stitch different tunnel in each domain together into end to end tu= nnel, on the other hand,we can also manage tunnel in each domain separately= based on service intent described by the composed VPN model. One quick question is it is not clear to me if each segment vpn select = different tunnel type, what tunnel type look like in the composed VPN? Thanks ________________________________ Liu Chang China Unicom Email: liuc131@chinaunicom.cn Phone: +8618601102572 Tel: 010-68799999-7294 --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D3965Cdggemm526mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Thanks for the review, as= for the question the composed VPN can be  l3vpn or l2vpn as mentioned= in figure 2

 <= /p>

Roni

 <= /p>

From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of liuc131@chinaunicom.cn
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:22 AM
To: opsawg
Subject: [OPSAWG] review of draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03=

 

Dear Authors,

 

    Composed VPN is very good idea i= n my opinion, just like composite tunnels, it can be used in a group of PEs attached tothe same VPN tenant network, we can stitch different tunnel in = each domain together into end to end tunnel, on the other hand,we can also = manage tunnel in each domain separately based on service intent described b= y the composed VPN model.

 

    One quick question is it is not = clear to me if each segment vpn select different tunnel type, what tunnel type look like in the composed VPN?

 

Thanks

Liu Chang
China Unicom
Email: liuc131@chinaunicom.cn=
Phone: +8618601102572
Tel: 010-68799999-7294

--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D3965Cdggemm526mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 03:31:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CF71200F4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ksrklyQ8777R for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C1B2120090 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B994DC6564F470BFD79A; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:31:12 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:31:12 +0100 Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:31:11 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.213) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:31:11 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM526-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.116]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:31:08 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Oscar_Gonz=E1lez_de_Dios?= , "OPSAWG@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 Thread-Index: AdUUr686Fiz6gxpBTmCuoZzr7ekSrgVx1vAg Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:31:08 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D39677@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.60] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D39677dggemm526mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:31:17 -0000 --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D39677dggemm526mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I read the draft and think it is a good direction to have the service deliv= ery model for the l3vpn. I have no strong opinion about whether to use the = augmented approach or the prune and extend approach mostly if the redundant= parameters form l3sm are optional both direction may work but using prune = and extend will make it simple to describe since you will not need text to = explain if these parameters should be used or not. I will continue to review the document and hope it will help also with the= composed vpn draft. Roni Even From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Oscar Gonz=E1lez= de Dios Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 8:16 PM To: OPSAWG@ietf.org Subject: [OPSAWG] Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-= aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 Dear Opsawg colleagues, I would like to ask for feedback on an operator-led initiative to buil= d a L3VPN Network Yang model (let's refer to it as L3NM). The first draft i= s available in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00= . Please note that the yang model itself is still a work in progress, a= nd the first intention is to show the need of having such a model and how i= t related to current initiatives. The starting point of the work is the L3V= PN Yang model defined in RFC 8299. More complex deployment scenarios invol= ving the coordination of different VPN instances and different technologie= s to provide end-to-end VPN connectivity is out of scope of this document,= but is discussed in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-= composed-vpn-03 . RFC 8309 splits the service models into "Customer Service Model" and "S= ervice Delivery Model". The L3SM Yang model, defined in RFC 8299, is valid = for the customer to network operator conversation, but if operators want to= use it for the conversations between the B/OSS (business and operation sup= port systems) and the network orchestrator (or controller, depending on the= terminology used) then the model has some gaps. There are two options: A) "Augment" approach. This is the approach shown in version 00. The m= odel in RFC 8299 is extended via augmentation to cover the gaps. Still, som= e parameters defined by L3SM may not be necessary for the network version o= f the service model (those more related to the customer, which are mandator= y for the direct customer interface). B) "Prune and extend" approach. This approach will present an easier w= ay to ignore and prune unnecessary information defined at L3SM. At the same= time, any extension can be presented as part of the main module, and not a= s augments of an existing model. However, many content would be similar to = L3SM In the draft you can find a first set of topics covered by the model. The = scenarios covered include: the integration of ethernet and encapsulation pa= rameters, the extension for transport resources (e.g. RTs and RDs) to be or= chestrated from the management system, far-end configuration of PEs not ma= naged by the management system and the definition for PE identification. No= te the end customer does not really care about the internal network resourc= es, neither does care exactly which PE is used. Those decisions are taken b= y the operator, that then with the help of the control systems will deploy = the service. We would like to ask input from operators/service providers who might u= se this model and from software implementers who might code the model. Best Regards, Oscar ________________________________ Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus= ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind= icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o= copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci= =F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo = comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n. The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this co= mmunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission = in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you h= ave received this communication in error and then delete it. Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio= , pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex= clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, div= ulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode estar proibida em virtude= da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe = que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destru= i=E7=E3o --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D39677dggemm526mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,<= /p>

I read the draft and t= hink it is a good direction to have the service delivery model for the l3vp= n. I have no strong opinion about whether to use the augmented approach or = the prune and extend approach mostly if the redundant parameters form l3sm are optional both direction may work= but using prune and extend will make it simple to describe since you will = not need text to explain if these parameters should be used or not.

I will continue to rev= iew the document and hope it will help also with  the composed vpn dra= ft.

 

Roni Even

 

From: OPSAWG [= mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Oscar Gonz=E1lez de Dios
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 8:16 PM
To: OPSAWG@ietf.org
Subject: [OPSAWG] Feedback and operators+implementers input for = L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00

 

Dear Opsawg colleagues,=

 

     I would like to ask for fee= dback on an operator-led initiative to build a L3VPN Network Yang model (le= t’s refer to it as L3NM). The first draft is available in ht= tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00.<= /p>

 

      Please note that the = yang model itself is still a work in progress, and the first intention is t= o show the need of having such a model and how it related to current initia= tives. The starting point of the work is the L3VPN Yang model defined in RFC 8299.  More complex deployment scenarios involving the=   coordination of different VPN instances and different technologies t= o  provide end-to-end VPN connectivity is out of scope of this documen= t,  but is discussed in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-evenwu-opsawg-yang-composed-vpn-03<= /a> .

 

    RFC 8309 splits the service = models into “Customer Service Model” and “Service Deliver= y Model”. The L3SM Yang model, defined in RFC 8299, is valid for the = customer to network operator conversation, but if operators want to use it = for the conversations between the B/OSS (business and operation support system= s) and the network orchestrator (or controller, depending on the terminolog= y used) then the model has some gaps. There are two options:

 

A)      “Augment” approach. This is the approach shown in versio= n 00. The model in RFC 8299 is extended via augmentation to cover the gaps.= Still, some parameters defined by L3SM may not be necessary for the networ= k version of the service model (those more related to the customer, which are mandatory for the direct customer interface). <= o:p>

B)      “Prune and extend” approach. This approach will present = an easier way to ignore and prune unnecessary information defined at L3SM. = At the same time, any extension can be presented as part of the main module= , and not as augments of an existing model. However, many content would be similar to L3SM

 

In the draft you can fin= d a first set of topics covered by the model.  The scenarios covered i= nclude: the integration of ethernet and encapsulation parameters, the exten= sion for transport resources (e.g. RTs and RDs) to be orchestrated from the management system, far-end  configur= ation of PEs not managed by the management system and the definition for PE= identification. Note the end customer does not really care about the inter= nal network resources, neither does care exactly which PE is used. Those decisions are taken by the operator, that = then with the help of the control systems will deploy the service.

 

    We would like to ask input from o= perators/service providers who might use this model and from software imple= menters who might code the model.

 

    Best Regards,

 

        &nbs= p;       Oscar   

 =


Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus= ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind= icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede e= star prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este m= ensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta m= isma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If y= ou have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immedia= tely reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error= and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio= , pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex= clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o p= ode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta me= nsagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mes= ma via e proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o

--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D39677dggemm526mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 09:03:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6915A1204C3; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:03:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id abg1qjBq7vAN; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EF86120369; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id s7so97000iob.11; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pTBFoAzsKnuwma825Y6VqljnQr+CSFXhqX8v/IR+QGc=; b=BoambRudgFfYhTOdaOftZq3ClhuzXC5NvLsq5zlaErAFE0DoHsE0kaMeKDegEJQU5s /Oksez+yAv957nMNgsDeIV6IvLVktl/GAckF2UfShb/Sz4LjU0H4Ae+tlOzzSE0CbL1z 46ohDWmd7MruMYPumr8MO2zNPAn/6ptFvw0xd8+3hF7QJ6bKou2Ep5fTJpdKcIgwpEmU YP16QlhV1O892yMJEIIAqADOUaIlgiVES7Uob3RINInmeJZEbDJwKlgGYF9EhfGCUlei WDt9Ulbs2z+otF5I9dro28uhepuAg5AmtWHioRyKZSlWR352IOubT2yp2Hca3w2za1lz HKzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pTBFoAzsKnuwma825Y6VqljnQr+CSFXhqX8v/IR+QGc=; b=HG4Epl0g+zeokcKTE1JvZC6vDnRVd80AFQcUoUUP8TZm/NNm99lMLriQQSPDTum175 7zUg7sG9TzFkMYc6WBUWQZgydCcqBRB7wifu1TEgvG2I/6/83IzVbBgYgXA5vizIJYBn S7pqw1sQaaZKDFAErrKezF8VJ81mQ56dPVT875Qo7zsRKHi+9xnDVe8ZEl3uY0o6rYdf NvAFW3ldwJ0h55z05qT5j7p4Wcq2/wxT16ja8UmtyfciOcHc7wFt5CihiWIpMGAtzXwh c+xHhwM3RJVFDpq4aIw9oLOONM+ijw3YOmn9/nEumWHwd+2Kj27QCGdtusN1SrUOD9bn zp0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWxvnt+yB591jGN/Yf6o8uC4EzQap++JqjCZFc5FDczRc4fbGBB ezAajgK5n08wUI3meBbQzc4Sud7HxGd6EO9DrDY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx+VNJAS8cxxQQMysTBt3ccxvSayWqx/JKFv5MVbQ4RuWaWu35sSyEq6b0Y6bCrXEP3QDCldMpguOHZfneLqAI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:2252:: with SMTP id o18mr3476907ioo.63.1561392178520; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:02:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> From: "M. Ranganathan" Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:02:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000027e8e3058c13f2f3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:03:03 -0000 --00000000000027e8e3058c13f2f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eliot, On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 5:48 AM Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi everyone, > > A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses on= e > gap in MUD (there are several). In a MUD file one can say that one wants > to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D meanin= g a > controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a =E2=80=9Cco= ntroller=E2=80=9D > class that services devices based on a particular class name of controlle= r. > > In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and > populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, eithe= r > for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or a class > http://example.com/mudclass1. That can be laborious. To assist, we are > examining ways to have a controller declare itself as a candidate > controller. That at least provides a hint to the administrator that this > particular device is capable of serving in a particular role. > > To make that declaration, the device must- > > - Form the declaration; > - Find the MUD manager; and > - Send it. > > > Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and the= n > place it in various spots. > > Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: > > - Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose > device that has an app that is intended to be a controller? > > > If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the > declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the devic= e > is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting. In thi= s > case we have two choices: > > > - Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this > doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. > - Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager. > > > I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy enou= gh to > create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a mechanism = to > discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an internal part = of > the network infrastructure. > > Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the MU= D > manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the user > infrastructure, which is a change. > Regardless of whether the app directly calls the MUD manager or the Join registrar calls the MUD manager, an interface to it would need to be defined so that the MUD manager can be notified. A RESTful interface should work fine. Of course the RESTful API should be secured and based on certificates/HTTPs but that problem has been solved so does not need to be re-defined here. Of greater concern is that it is exposed outside the NW infrastructure. However, it does not HAVE to be exposed -- the same interface can work in either case (i.e. the Join registrar can use it or the controller application can use it, with the recommendation that it SHOULD not be exposed). As you rightly point out, discovery protocols are dime a dozen so pick a simple one. Can DNS (SRV record) be defined/used to locate the MUD manager? Perhaps it can be sent back in the DHCP response in case the service needs to be exposed to the application (just thinking out loud). > One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful endpoin= t > into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be exposed. But th= at > requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may not. > > My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the easy > case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to do the > app version of this. > Sounds good. Regards, Ranga > > Thoughts? > > Eliot > > --=20 M. Ranganathan --00000000000027e8e3058c13f2f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Eliot,


On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 5:48 AM Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,

A few of us are just trying to put out a= n initial draft that addresses one gap in MUD (there are several).=C2=A0 In= a MUD file one can say that one wants to access a controller in two ways: = either "my-controller=E2=80=9D meaning a controller that services devi= ces of a particular MUD URL or a =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that se= rvices devices based on a particular class name of controller.
In either case, right now the administrator has to manually kn= ow and populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, = either for MUD URL ht= tps://example.com/mud=C2=A0or a class http://example.com/mudclass1.=C2=A0 That can = be laborious.=C2=A0 To assist, we are examining ways to have a controller d= eclare itself as a candidate controller.=C2=A0 That at least provides a hin= t to the administrator that this particular device is capable of serving in= a particular role.

To make that declaration, the = device must-
  • Form the declaration;
  • Find the MUD manager; and
  • Send = it.

Forming the declaration is easy: we = can make this a YANG grouping and then place it in various spots.

Finding the MUD manager depends on one question:
=
  • Was the device bu= ilt to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app th= at is intended to be a controller?

If th= e device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the declaration i= nto that devices own MUD file as an extension.=C2=A0 If the device is a gen= eral purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting.=C2=A0 In this cas= e we have two choices:

  • Either create a MUD file that points somewhe= re internally - this doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play.
  • Make = the declaration directly to the MUD manager.

=
I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment.=C2=A0 It is e= asy enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires = a mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an i= nternal part of the network infrastructure.

Let me= call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the MUD manage= r requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the user infrastru= cture, which is a change.

Regar= dless of whether the app directly calls the MUD manager or the Join registr= ar calls the MUD manager, an interface to it would need to be defined so th= at the MUD manager can be notified.

A RESTful = interface should work fine. Of course the RESTful API should be secured and= based on certificates/HTTPs but that problem has been solved so does not n= eed to be re-defined here. Of greater concern is that it is exposed outside= the NW infrastructure. However, it does not HAVE to be exposed -- the same= interface can work in either case (i.e. the Join registrar can use it or t= he controller=C2=A0 application can use it, with the recommendation that it= SHOULD not be exposed).

As you rightly point= out, discovery protocols are dime a dozen so pick a simple one. Can DNS (S= RV record) be defined/used to locate the MUD manager?=C2=A0 Perhaps it can = be sent back in the DHCP response in case the service needs to be exposed t= o the application (just thinking out loud).

<= br>

One possibility to address th= is is to incorporate the new RESTful endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join regi= strar, which may already be exposed.=C2=A0 But that requires that ANIMA BRS= KI be in play, which it may not.

My thinking is th= at we do this work in two stages.=C2=A0 First handle the easy case, which i= s the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to do the app version of = this.

Sounds good.
Regards, Ranga

T= houghts?

Eliot



--
M. Ranganathan

--00000000000027e8e3058c13f2f3-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 12:52:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B014A1202B5; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:52:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wT_FLF1Vhm82; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2C6A120044; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8546D380BE; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 7F4C0109C; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE22E8C; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:52:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:52:34 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eliot Lear wrote: > A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses > one gap in MUD (there are several). > In a MUD file one can say that one > wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80= =9D > meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or= a > =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a p= articular class > name of controller. I think that we have two potential avenues for security attacks here: 1) a device that claims to be a controller in order to gain access to devices. 2) devices that claim to be belong to a controller in order to attack controllers. To my mind there are some different things we could do: 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two devices have to be signed by the "same" entity. ["same" could mean literal the same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN, or something more complex] 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller device. 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL. > In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and > populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, > either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud = or > a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . > That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a > controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least > provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is > capable of serving in a particular role. I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a fail for residential use. It's too complex. > To make that declaration, the device must- Form the declaration; Find > the MUD manager; and Send it. > Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: Was the device built > to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app > that is intended to be a controller? > If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the > declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the > device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more > interesting. Yes... but I think that we have to solve the multi-purpose computer MUD anyway. The intelligent speakers (Echo,Home,Mycroft,etc.) need to gain new MUD definitions as they gain "skills", and I think that we can treat a smartphone in a similar way. This might be a place where IPv6 wins, if we can split off each skill into a new provisioning domain, giving it a new IPv6 IID. I was thinking that may= be we can associate the private key that signed the MUD file to the IID via something like SEND/CGA, but I'm not sure how many private keys we have (one for the app developer, or one per app installed on each device). > In this case we have two choices: > Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this > doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. Make the declaration direct= ly to the > MUD manager. > I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to > create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a > mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been = an > internal part of the network infrastructure. > Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the > MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the > user infrastructure, which is a change. Agreed. And that the MUD manager have some reason to trust the device is not p0wned, and sending a bogus MUD file up. A certificate chain back to the manufacturer is not enough, it has to be signed by a key that an attacker can't get access to. So that requires attested keys if they are "local", or for the signature to be done elsewhere. > One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful > endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be > exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may > not. It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. > My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the > easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to > do the app version of this. > Thoughts? yes. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0Se3oACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUp5Qf6A3EJ2RigrbmeApBt25KdwvLUmHQS4XFakGQklHDY6Wi2w4XWAyxaBg9i DQu7za/MQbGsNOwUdQ7tcGykFZaZ8T184bccrar+PxgzvtUyG3vReFUZYc/87pmX XBdnYwW+5mQCTsdNFAc1nv72UNg1J8Ut6KAeQug1wdLTEq/yFkg9a1U5klJDitu5 PnJ6nswfySj/5aqnYuVJ5Ol3DdnYTtx6hZCyD26wRjm3BLLBihcVU1ET90sJ+Q88 y1X1XZVMhJZlzZ4KUMzFWxP4KP0wc0vEj+nB9HS0B7WS8HGn639QeJ8WsNjNNhex 2/hMOb+R5R9b504ESq7yVCuN6Z7q5A== =7mfs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 20:52:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 26 Jun 2019 10:56:12 +0000 Received: from [10.61.211.92] ([10.61.211.92]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5QAuCLM011870 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:56:12 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_59B572DF-B462-4ADC-9CBB-C9EC9E0BC6C7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:56:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1547.1561492346@localhost> Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.211.92, [10.61.211.92] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:56:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_59B572DF-B462-4ADC-9CBB-C9EC9E0BC6C7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 25 Jun 2019, at 21:52, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: >> A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that = addresses >> one gap in MUD (there are several). >=20 >> In a MUD file one can say that one >> wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D= >> meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or = a >> =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class >> name of controller. >=20 > I think that we have two potential avenues for security attacks here: > 1) a device that claims to be a controller in order to gain access to > devices. > 2) devices that claim to be belong to a controller in order to attack > controllers. >=20 > To my mind there are some different things we could do: >=20 > 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two = devices > have to be signed by the "same" entity. ["same" could mean literal = the > same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN, or something more = complex] >=20 > 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the > DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller device. >=20 > 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL. I could see these as options. >=20 >> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and >> populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, >> either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud = or >> a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . >> That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a >> controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least >> provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is >> capable of serving in a particular role. >=20 > I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a = fail for > residential use. It's too complex. There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise case. = But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer burden over = time. In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial device = admission control anyway, no? Can we not rely on that interaction as an = approval step in this instance? >=20 >> To make that declaration, the device must- Form the declaration; Find >> the MUD manager; and Send it. >=20 >> Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: Was the device built >> to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app >> that is intended to be a controller? >=20 >> If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the >> declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the >> device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more >> interesting. >=20 > Yes... but I think that we have to solve the multi-purpose computer = MUD > anyway. The intelligent speakers (Echo,Home,Mycroft,etc.) need to = gain new > MUD definitions as they gain "skills", and I think that we can treat a > smartphone in a similar way. >=20 > This might be a place where IPv6 wins, if we can split off each skill = into a > new provisioning domain, giving it a new IPv6 IID. I was thinking = that maybe > we can associate the private key that signed the MUD file to the IID = via > something like SEND/CGA, but I'm not sure how many private keys we = have > (one for the app developer, or one per app installed on each device). >=20 >> In this case we have two choices: >=20 >> Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this >> doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. Make the declaration = directly to the >> MUD manager. >=20 >> I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to >> create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a >> mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been = an >> internal part of the network infrastructure. >=20 >> Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call = the >> MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to = the >> user infrastructure, which is a change. >=20 > Agreed. > And that the MUD manager have some reason to trust the device is not = p0wned, > and sending a bogus MUD file up. A certificate chain back to the > manufacturer is not enough, it has to be signed by a key that an = attacker > can't get access to. So that requires attested keys if they are = "local", or > for the signature to be done elsewhere. >=20 >> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful >> endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be >> exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may >> not. >=20 > It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. >=20 >> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the >> easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how = to >> do the app version of this. >=20 >> Thoughts? >=20 > yes. >=20 Was that =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D to the two stage approach? Eliot > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_59B572DF-B462-4ADC-9CBB-C9EC9E0BC6C7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRNPSgAKCRBugA9nE248 uB6SAJ9WKlB4UK9mpWxyhs5Yqc/aSWcxXwCg5uA13HZfOBrMBOeNwleyNe7MgSI= =tI3V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_59B572DF-B462-4ADC-9CBB-C9EC9E0BC6C7-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 04:15:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2211912025D; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:15:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="asc'?scan'208";a="13551023" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 26 Jun 2019 11:15:45 +0000 Received: from [10.61.211.92] ([10.61.211.92]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5QBFiSM015121 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:15:44 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <14059460-C481-4E4C-977B-135F9F45C5D9@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_87042D5B-63C4-44C2-88C4-190EB8743177"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:15:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1547.1561492346@localhost> Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.211.92, [10.61.211.92] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:15:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_87042D5B-63C4-44C2-88C4-190EB8743177 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 25 Jun 2019, at 21:52, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: >> A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that = addresses >> one gap in MUD (there are several). >=20 >> In a MUD file one can say that one >> wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D= >> meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or = a >> =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class >> name of controller. >=20 > I think that we have two potential avenues for security attacks here: > 1) a device that claims to be a controller in order to gain access to > devices. > 2) devices that claim to be belong to a controller in order to attack > controllers. >=20 > To my mind there are some different things we could do: >=20 > 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two = devices > have to be signed by the "same" entity. ["same" could mean literal = the > same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN, or something more = complex] >=20 > 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the > DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller device. >=20 > 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL. Another thought here: We could provide a level of dereference for authorized controllers in = the device=E2=80=99s MUD file, in the form of a URL list that would look = something like: { [ =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D : =E2=80=9Ccontroller-name" =E2=80=9Cmud-urls=E2=80=9D : [ some mud urls of valid controllers = here ] =E2=80=9Cinclude=E2=80=9D : = =E2=80=9Chttps://levelofindirection.example.com=E2=80=9D that points to = a file that contains a JSON serialization of this grouping } Whether you trust that mud-url without a cert is up to you. Eliot >=20 >> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and >> populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, >> either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud = or >> a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . >> That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a >> controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least >> provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is >> capable of serving in a particular role. >=20 > I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a = fail for > residential use. It's too complex. >=20 >> To make that declaration, the device must- Form the declaration; Find >> the MUD manager; and Send it. >=20 >> Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: Was the device built >> to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app >> that is intended to be a controller? >=20 >> If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the >> declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the >> device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more >> interesting. >=20 > Yes... but I think that we have to solve the multi-purpose computer = MUD > anyway. The intelligent speakers (Echo,Home,Mycroft,etc.) need to = gain new > MUD definitions as they gain "skills", and I think that we can treat a > smartphone in a similar way. >=20 > This might be a place where IPv6 wins, if we can split off each skill = into a > new provisioning domain, giving it a new IPv6 IID. I was thinking = that maybe > we can associate the private key that signed the MUD file to the IID = via > something like SEND/CGA, but I'm not sure how many private keys we = have > (one for the app developer, or one per app installed on each device). >=20 >> In this case we have two choices: >=20 >> Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this >> doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. Make the declaration = directly to the >> MUD manager. >=20 >> I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to >> create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a >> mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been = an >> internal part of the network infrastructure. >=20 >> Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call = the >> MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to = the >> user infrastructure, which is a change. >=20 > Agreed. > And that the MUD manager have some reason to trust the device is not = p0wned, > and sending a bogus MUD file up. A certificate chain back to the > manufacturer is not enough, it has to be signed by a key that an = attacker > can't get access to. So that requires attested keys if they are = "local", or > for the signature to be done elsewhere. >=20 >> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful >> endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be >> exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may >> not. >=20 > It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. >=20 >> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the >> easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how = to >> do the app version of this. >=20 >> Thoughts? >=20 > yes. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_87042D5B-63C4-44C2-88C4-190EB8743177 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRNT3QAKCRBugA9nE248 uKnyAJ470WteMz46iB8uD5N/bcXHSbHEbwCgq9wzLD2F0VqZ/dwytMllLW8QRTk= =ZRow -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_87042D5B-63C4-44C2-88C4-190EB8743177-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 07:27:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478A3120191; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:27:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pgG46YaQL0lW; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 153B5120189; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id r185so5473057iod.6; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:27:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xc5p2uLi5UB/mWJ8hmCFkGe7KoIMUywDxm1Jgsx0DBU=; b=mmRdjhybuaeXAASdMqL3sIkbWkj4Pck2eXCowEe6W4xL8RltX8T6rz33SXT/B06R+F NAm0dMV+4cRktrwtWP5l2F4QVAkya8gxaGkh2rdFzKr4n7E0QXDW1mWn2BmZ3+JRAD1d YEZFc6qdLq9KvJIX6OnGxScbdEaJgJaU9yvV4bfy+c3xMHKBjkaf4EZGS0jGufwzIPBC 8VpHefVxXVJv0jrX2pmrUDDPAJKnVrd32Kfvxmw1/1Rqjy/ptIJltXzz0JELFeBVTeM6 6SiKmOCgpqlEgWsYnil8UlCD1ubMuhFau+Q52IlIPpLhkteGZdBqVmfIb3zmI9fIfMQ6 prGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xc5p2uLi5UB/mWJ8hmCFkGe7KoIMUywDxm1Jgsx0DBU=; b=AzjMmobD6GEF5RT2Yh6ZehJM7/qR/bJgpeUrr9EvASk0YuRVH4Y0cS28XlJKLLdHGO G5L9lveNhuIL64gxgLL/eusmcA+3r0ldiHOyLo5vZ+G8hUuLD/zwkYtbInujKJTQ1317 3lm+z0qa9Y6c+EFh14P9ALAV9LIEdbmxfTxsQZUCbCPBArp/WeT9OfdelD2tjpNT1Mpy Pbr+3boBicVOT0cEy0/NKi/xq0bkMLQy0aqUcWVEDKaO0/Sfd2qAJUp9/qOz4cGsohh6 5odZVbmUSNyWe2wEkvjZWrvTgOiB91JoxgjqlnUFPIytJfnaLamolVPBIeB3m/zJtvb5 WTOA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXaKdUDR+JuwcbfEVGcRQPFxozrjHW2Bx8h62fbuYrQQKyXchP4 DfdhEKIgYvoIq2upGIJPrjeBlYs2FjZi9/ph6o8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwee6+EFsY2ZheXBDFZnl4aLand6pxBiCi/3toptGMje9XalkPvLKcMzb2NGlEijbbr/JrvZqwgP0c4T0dOJlA= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:d615:: with SMTP id w21mr5620227iom.0.1561559250082; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:27:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> In-Reply-To: From: "M. Ranganathan" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:26:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: Michael Richardson , opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000065a6c9058c3ad84d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:27:38 -0000 --00000000000065a6c9058c3ad84d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 6:56 AM Eliot Lear wrote: > > > > On 25 Jun 2019, at 21:52, Michael Richardson > wrote: > > > > Signed PGP part > > > > Eliot Lear wrote: > >> A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses > >> one gap in MUD (there are several). > > > >> In a MUD file one can say that one > >> wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80= =9D > >> meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or = a > >> =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a pa= rticular class > >> name of controller. > > > > I think that we have two potential avenues for security attacks here: > > 1) a device that claims to be a controller in order to gain access to > > devices. > > 2) devices that claim to be belong to a controller in order to attack > > controllers. > > > > To my mind there are some different things we could do: > > > > 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two devic= es > > have to be signed by the "same" entity. ["same" could mean literal t= he > > same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN, or something more complex] > > > > 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the > > DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller device. > controller or my-controller could refer to an application (not necessarily another device). However, the approach you are suggesting could apply to an application as well. > > > 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL. > > > I could see these as options. > > > > >> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and > >> populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, > >> either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud o= r > >> a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . > >> That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a > >> controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least > >> provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is > >> capable of serving in a particular role. > > > > I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a fail > for > > residential use. It's too complex. > > There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise case. > But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer burden over > time. In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial device > admission control anyway, no? Can we not rely on that interaction as an > approval step in this instance? > > > > >> To make that declaration, the device must- Form the declaration; Find > >> the MUD manager; and Send it. > > > >> Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: Was the device built > >> to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app > >> that is intended to be a controller? > > > >> If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the > >> declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the > >> device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more > >> interesting. > More precisely if the application that wants to declare itself to be a controller is running on a general purpose controller then things could become interesting. > > > Yes... but I think that we have to solve the multi-purpose computer MUD > > anyway. The intelligent speakers (Echo,Home,Mycroft,etc.) need to gain > new > > MUD definitions as they gain "skills", and I think that we can treat a > > smartphone in a similar way. > It's a chicken and egg problem but I think we need to see some further adoption before throwing such complications into the mix. > > > This might be a place where IPv6 wins, if we can split off each skill > into a > > new provisioning domain, giving it a new IPv6 IID. I was thinking that > maybe > > we can associate the private key that signed the MUD file to the IID vi= a > > something like SEND/CGA, but I'm not sure how many private keys we have > > (one for the app developer, or one per app installed on each device). > > > > > >> In this case we have two choices: > > > >> Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this > >> doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. Make the declaration directl= y to the > >> MUD manager. > > > >> I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy e= nough to > >> create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a > >> mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been a= n > >> internal part of the network infrastructure. > > > >> Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the > >> MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the > >> user infrastructure, which is a change. > > > > Agreed. > > And that the MUD manager have some reason to trust the device is not > p0wned, > > and sending a bogus MUD file up. A certificate chain back to the > > manufacturer is not enough, it has to be signed by a key that an attack= er > > can't get access to. So that requires attested keys if they are > "local", or > > for the signature to be done elsewhere. > > > >> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful > >> endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be > >> exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may > >> not. > I think the simplest approach would be to define a REST interface to the mud controller. This can be invoked by the join registrar (in case brski is being used) so that it is not directly exposed. When a controller (which could be an application) is admitted to the network, the join registrar signals the MUD manager. Thus the MUD manager does not need exposure in case brski is being used. In case brski is not being used, exposure (or limited exposure) may not be avoidable. How to discover the MUD manager (i.e. where it is running the API server) in case brski is not being used? Not clear, but won't simple direct configuration do the trick? Alternatively there are many discovery protocols (some better than others). So long as the application declaring itself to be the controller can be trusted, I don't see a big problem with exposing a RESTful API. Yes you now have an API that can be invoked by anyone who can access the MUD manager. How do you authenticate the invoker of this API? Again - many answers possible. A simple one -- it must present a trusted certificate signed by a trusted authority (verified using a certificate chain and yes key exposure is a known risk but isn't that always the case for public key encryption?). There application itself must be trustworthy but that can be verified by checking its code signature manually or automatically while installing it. So while not perfect I think it is a reasonable solution. Just my 2c. > > > > It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. > > > >> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the > >> easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to > >> do the app version of this. > > > >> Thoughts? > > > > yes. > > > > Was that =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D to the two stage approach? > > Eliot > > > -- > > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Mud mailing list > Mud@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud > --=20 M. Ranganathan --00000000000065a6c9058c3ad84d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 6:56 AM Eliot= Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:


> On 25 Jun 2019, at 21:52, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote= :
>
> Signed PGP part
>
> Eliot Lear <lea= r@cisco.com> wrote:
>> A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addre= sses
>> one gap in MUD (there are several).
>
>> In a MUD file one can say that one
>> wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controll= er=E2=80=9D
>> meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL= or a
>> =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on = a particular class
>> name of controller.
>
> I think that we have two potential avenues for security attacks here:<= br> >=C2=A0 1) a device that claims to be a controller in order to gain acce= ss to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.
>=C2=A0 2) devices that claim to be belong to a controller in order to a= ttack
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0controllers.
>
> To my mind there are some different things we could do:
>
> 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two devi= ces
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0have to be signed by the "same" entity.=C2=A0 [&= quot;same" could mean literal the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN,=C2=A0 or somethi= ng more complex]
>
> 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller dev= ice.

controller or my-controller could = refer to an application (not necessarily another device). However, the appr= oach you are suggesting could apply to an application as well.


>
> 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL.


I could see these as options.

>
>> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know a= nd
>> populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller= ,
>> either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud <https://example.com= /mud> or
>> a class http://example.com/mudclass1 <http://example.= com/mudclass1>.
>> That can be laborious.=C2=A0 To assist, we are examining ways to h= ave a
>> controller declare itself as a candidate controller.=C2=A0 That at= least
>> provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device i= s
>> capable of serving in a particular role.
>
> I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a fai= l for
> residential use.=C2=A0 It's too complex.

There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise case.=C2= =A0 But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer burden over t= ime.=C2=A0 In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial device a= dmission control anyway, no?=C2=A0 Can we not rely on that interaction as a= n approval step in this instance?

>
>> To make that declaration, the device must- Form the declaration; F= ind
>> the MUD manager; and Send it.
>
>> Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: Was the device bu= ilt
>> to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an a= pp
>> that is intended to be a controller?
>
>> If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the=
>> declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension.=C2=A0 = If the
>> device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more
>> interesting.


Mo= re precisely if the application that wants to declare itself to be a contro= ller is running on a general purpose controller then things could become in= teresting.




>
> Yes... but I think that we have to solve the multi-purpose computer MU= D
> anyway.=C2=A0 The intelligent speakers (Echo,Home,Mycroft,etc.) need t= o gain new
> MUD definitions as they gain "skills", and I think that we c= an treat a
> smartphone in a similar way.


<= /div>
It's a chicken and egg problem but I think we need to see som= e further adoption before throwing such complications into the mix.


>
> This might be a place where IPv6 wins, if we can split off each skill = into a
> new provisioning domain, giving it a new IPv6 IID.=C2=A0 I was thinkin= g that maybe
> we can associate the private key that signed the MUD file to the IID v= ia
> something like SEND/CGA, but I'm not sure how many private keys we= have
> (one for the app developer, or one per app installed on each device).<= br>

>
>> In this case we have two choices:
>
>> Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this >> doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play.=C2=A0 Make the declaratio= n directly to the
>> MUD manager.
>
>> I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment.=C2=A0 It = is easy enough to
>> create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a
>> mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has be= en an
>> internal part of the network infrastructure.
>
>> Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call= the
>> MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to= the
>> user infrastructure, which is a change.
>
> Agreed.
> And that the MUD manager have some reason to trust the device is not p= 0wned,
> and sending a bogus MUD file up.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A certificate chain back = to the
> manufacturer is not enough, it has to be signed by a key that an attac= ker
> can't get access to.=C2=A0 So that requires attested keys if they = are "local", or
> for the signature to be done elsewhere.
>
>> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful<= br> >> endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be<= br> >> exposed.=C2=A0 But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, whic= h it may
>> not.


I thi= nk the simplest approach would be to define a REST interface=20 to the mud controller. This can be invoked by the join registrar (in=20 case brski is being used) so that it is not directly exposed. When a controller (which could be an application) is admitted to the=20 network, the join registrar signals the MUD manager.=C2=A0 Thus the MUD=20 manager does not need exposure in case brski is being used.

<= /div>
In case brski is not being used, exposure (or limited exposure) = may not be avoidable.

How to discover the MUD = manager (i.e. where it is running the API server) in case brski is not bein= g used? Not clear, but won't simple direct configuration do the trick?= =C2=A0 Alternatively there are many discovery protocols (some better than o= thers).

=C2=A0So long as the application decl= aring itself to be the controller can be trusted, I don't see a big pro= blem with exposing a RESTful API. Yes you now have an API that can be invok= ed by anyone who can access the MUD manager. How do you authenticate the in= voker of this API? Again - many answers possible. A simple one -- it must p= resent a trusted=C2=A0 certificate signed by a trusted authority (verified = using a certificate chain and yes key exposure is a known risk but isn'= t that always the case for public key encryption?). There application itsel= f must be trustworthy but that can be verified by checking its code signatu= re manually or automatically while installing it. So while not perfect I th= ink it is a reasonable solution.



Just my 2c.
=C2=A0
>
> It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. >
>> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages.=C2=A0 First han= dle the
>> easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out ho= w to
>> do the app version of this.
>
>> Thoughts?
>
> yes.
>

Was that =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D to the two stage approach?

Eliot

> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>
>
>
>
>

--
Mud mailing list
Mud@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud


--
M. Ranganathan

<= /div>
--00000000000065a6c9058c3ad84d-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 08:34:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C5D1201DC; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:34:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SQhCHwJbzC17; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3958712014E; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44EA838183; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id BF5CFE68; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD76FE37; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:34:40 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eliot Lear wrote: >>> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and >>> populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, >>> either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or >>> a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . >>> That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a >>> controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least >>> provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is >>> capable of serving in a particular role. >> >> I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a f= ail for >> residential use. It's too complex. > There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise > case. But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer burd= en > over time. In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial > device admission control anyway, no? Can we not rely on that > interaction as an approval step in this instance? I think we'd all like to have a generic app (with an RFC standard API) that can onboard any device and can do admission control for any controller. I think this is what you are saying as well. >>> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful >>> endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be >>> exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it m= ay >>> not. >> It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. >> >>> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the >>> easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how= to >>> do the app version of this. >> >>> Thoughts? >> >> yes. >> > Was that =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D to the two stage approach? "Yes" :-) Eliot Lear wrote: >> 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two de= vices >> have to be signed by the "same" entity. ["same" could mean literal = the >> same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN, or something more complex] >> >> 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the >> DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller device. >> >> 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL. > Another thought here: > We could provide a level of dereference for authorized controllers in > the device=E2=80=99s MUD file, in the form of a URL list that would l= ook > something like: > { [ > =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D : =E2=80=9Ccontroller-name" > =E2=80=9Cmud-urls=E2=80=9D : [ some mud urls of valid controllers her= e ] > =E2=80=9Cinclude=E2=80=9D : =E2=80=9Chttps://levelofindirection.examp= le.com=E2=80=9D that points to a file that contains a JSON serialization of= this grouping > } yes, this is exactly what I was thinking about. Would "mud-urls" / "include" be mutually exclusive? =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0TkIsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXw0Qf+OuxPT1S56UO/VtPTBkhiEFK9DsjPrNTjzPq/jzpa79iBqRoSe6Evf4bN HX9uggictVTtyIxjW9JE1nWaPP/FF4JK2JixZTTGt4+4+le7cZ7eHf1A8ph7Gw7L /Fe7i094NHgKME1yZsC9gSo8eyfiHpNDIYkrVX0AZcnaynvA6N0AohnjMnKTJeW8 ZgAU7I78myGClo1Et8cNLahQIWcBgTG+Gmldl9KKDvmc/VSTkFIes1FPyOENdR/i fUjSDDJYVMcOQpUAXTvwksg5eDqZEbgGph8aXYJHLy5DWSxcQfwvHpesDI2tJbn3 XJtLDedS+I2w1/lmjfwjuE/QIlmW4A== =4OTt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 08:43:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F33120100; 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26 Jun 2019 15:43:02 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp6365.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp6365.cisco.com [10.61.88.220]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5QFh1PG003375 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:43:02 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <7DDDF804-8171-4E1E-91C5-CBE4D2965939@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_555F9A05-FBC8-4287-8E2B-E270949473E2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:43:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: <11505.1561563275@localhost> Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> <11505.1561563275@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.88.220, ams3-vpn-dhcp6365.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:43:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_555F9A05-FBC8-4287-8E2B-E270949473E2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 26 Jun 2019, at 17:34, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: >>>> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know = and >>>> populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, >>>> either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud = or >>>> a class http://example.com/mudclass1 = . >>>> That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a >>>> controller declare itself as a candidate controller. That at least >>>> provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is >>>> capable of serving in a particular role. >>>=20 >>> I think that anything that requires administrator activity to be a = fail for >>> residential use. It's too complex. >=20 >> There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise >> case. But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer = burden >> over time. In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial >> device admission control anyway, no? Can we not rely on that >> interaction as an approval step in this instance? >=20 > I think we'd all like to have a generic app (with an RFC standard API) = that > can onboard any device and can do admission control for any = controller. > I think this is what you are saying as well. Yes, but I was saying a bit more. Do you expect to fully automate the = inclusion of a controller into a controller class in the home? How do = you envision the full flow looking like? >=20 >>>> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful >>>> endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be >>>> exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it = may >>>> not. >=20 >>> It is, however, a really good idea for the case where it is in play. >>>=20 >>>> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle = the >>>> easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how = to >>>> do the app version of this. >>>=20 >>>> Thoughts? >>>=20 >>> yes. >>>=20 >=20 >> Was that =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D to the two stage approach? >=20 > "Yes" :-) Okidoke. >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: >>> 1) insist that to user the my-controller connections that the two = devices >>> have to be signed by the "same" entity. ["same" could mean literal = the >>> same key, the same certificate Issuer/DN, or something more = complex] >>>=20 >>> 2) we could have devices declare in an MUD extension the >>> DN/certificate/entity which must sign their controller device. >>>=20 >>> 3) (2) above, but with some level of indirection through some URL. >=20 >> Another thought here: >=20 >> We could provide a level of dereference for authorized controllers in >> the device=E2=80=99s MUD file, in the form of a URL list that would = look >> something like: >=20 >> { [ >> =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D : =E2=80=9Ccontroller-name" >> =E2=80=9Cmud-urls=E2=80=9D : [ some mud urls of valid controllers = here ] >> =E2=80=9Cinclude=E2=80=9D : = =E2=80=9Chttps://levelofindirection.example.com=E2=80=9D that points to = a file that contains a JSON serialization of this grouping >> } >=20 > yes, this is exactly what I was thinking about. >=20 > Would "mud-urls" / "include" be mutually exclusive? I don=E2=80=99t see why it would have to be. But now let=E2=80=99s back = up, just to make sure we=E2=80=99re not digging too deep a hole for the = application case that Ranga wants to get to. If the MUD protected = device is declaring MUD URLs for MUD controllers and that is what all of = this would boil down to, then the app case is really a completely = separate mechanism, because apps don=E2=80=99t have MUD-URLs. If we do a two-stage, then we need a completely separate draft for apps = anyway, but I was hoping for some commonality. Eliot >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT = architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on = rails [ >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_555F9A05-FBC8-4287-8E2B-E270949473E2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXROShAAKCRBugA9nE248 uB3cAJ4iy4c3tM2U4/Df7RTtiDShja/8aACgjEucxDe/aouMPByD8lY6M403r74= =a+ZV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_555F9A05-FBC8-4287-8E2B-E270949473E2-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 14:26:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE6FD120188; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:26:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mHjcPmi4dHOw; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C09E1203AE; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9A13808A; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 297E2E68; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28194E37; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:26:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <7DDDF804-8171-4E1E-91C5-CBE4D2965939@cisco.com> References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> <11505.1561563275@localhost> <7DDDF804-8171-4E1E-91C5-CBE4D2965939@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:26:30 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eliot Lear wrote: >>> There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise >>> case. But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer bu= rden >>> over time. In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial >>> device admission control anyway, no? Can we not rely on that >>> interaction as an approval step in this instance? >> >> I think we'd all like to have a generic app (with an RFC standard AP= I) that >> can onboard any device and can do admission control for any controll= er. >> I think this is what you are saying as well. > Yes, but I was saying a bit more. Do you expect to fully automate the > inclusion of a controller into a controller class in the home? How do > you envision the full flow looking like? I expect to fully automate the inclusion of a controller into that class, yes. I'd like to automate the device into the class too. Perhaps your point is that since the controller has to onboard (at the layer-7) the device in anyway: can we leverage that? >> yes, this is exactly what I was thinking about. >> >> Would "mud-urls" / "include" be mutually exclusive? > I don=E2=80=99t see why it would have to be. But now let=E2=80=99s b= ack up, just to > make sure we=E2=80=99re not digging too deep a hole for the applicati= on case > that Ranga wants to get to. If the MUD protected device is declaring > MUD URLs for MUD controllers and that is what all of this would boil > down to, then the app case is really a completely separate mechanism, > because apps don=E2=80=99t have MUD-URLs. > If we do a two-stage, then we need a completely separate draft for ap= ps > anyway, but I was hoping for some commonality. Hmm. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0T4wEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWDzwf/bi6qFjt9u8BccDWI80xNHoHQrrA+4cZaLK+h4ROMpmD8yckfKspPZZU9 LZU4zJyJFE+yS/avjGLiRuiQ0WhH3YdQym0WZ/ujiqLgQzUmLqFbGOoJ0rDLl0Bx TeBYtPH1kcmdF/kLH/z9+8zVYvYztIIBHMlkrLswkY6GCK4U/JD+FD1m0aPCuLSD 0M5xJvZ8FnOo2nohFr9yqWIYW+3nrZ7ZSphWiwZWMoDFmbJTGYJORcZoyFTWR9X+ BQntrCLZJ8X8ewZ2gOou/SYYihEHhCZIsd7Cgm53P0Z2LbtfvasOJqlwRrPiTi0J YQwPjGnnuwtsGpH0fBDYK+davtVdBQ== =R92T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 14:30:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5411B1202B4; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:30:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OxxQcRlwZV3w; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CFE6120140; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2859; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1561584629; x=1562794229; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=kPpy6UQz0d7j6zfCtcWcdDmjJGd9A8GcejMWhFWcsTM=; b=HBp5nHzK7YVM4MR4DxfJqoX4yxUVo4NdfeFG0ZvtKqh0kh17jootripQ 07bDa54jtPOiO8lowv4z55dmbxiWd+RKcu8NWSj31Gfph2kpBnNZEl9aR x899PIzOMg2YTTHh4fnAUQlJ3XMzVtZSsOum/BiAMfZr15eCKTG7MmjHd 8=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ARAADF4hNd/xbLJq1lGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBVgEBAQEBAQsBg1IyKIQViHuLYCWaZgIHAQEBCQMBAS8?= =?us-ascii?q?BAYRAAoMgNwYOAQMBAQQBAQIBBW2KQ4VKAQEBAwEjUQUFCwsYKgICVwYTgyI?= =?us-ascii?q?BgXsPpgKBMYVHhGMQgTQBgVCKJIF/gTgME4IeLj6HTjKCJgSUS5VRCYIYgh6?= =?us-ascii?q?BCpBIG5dVoTiDCQIEBgUCFYFmIoFYMxoIGxVlAYJBPoIKjj49AzCQAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,421,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="13567216" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 26 Jun 2019 21:30:26 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp6365.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp6365.cisco.com [10.61.88.220]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5QLUPHS028501 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:30:26 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1B2458D9-F3BD-4F70-8C2B-5FBF48A12F7E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:30:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <13929.1561584386@localhost> Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org, "M. Ranganathan" To: Michael Richardson References: <1FDE5A58-569B-47FD-8C24-435D78F8A3B2@cisco.com> <1547.1561492346@localhost> <11505.1561563275@localhost> <7DDDF804-8171-4E1E-91C5-CBE4D2965939@cisco.com> <13929.1561584386@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.88.220, ams3-vpn-dhcp6365.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:30:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1B2458D9-F3BD-4F70-8C2B-5FBF48A12F7E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 26 Jun 2019, at 23:26, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: >>>> There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise >>>> case. But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer = burden >>>> over time. In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial >>>> device admission control anyway, no? Can we not rely on that >>>> interaction as an approval step in this instance? >>>=20 >>> I think we'd all like to have a generic app (with an RFC standard = API) that >>> can onboard any device and can do admission control for any = controller. >>> I think this is what you are saying as well. >=20 >> Yes, but I was saying a bit more. Do you expect to fully automate = the >> inclusion of a controller into a controller class in the home? How = do >> you envision the full flow looking like? >=20 > I expect to fully automate the inclusion of a controller into that = class, > yes. I'd like to automate the device into the class too. >=20 > Perhaps your point is that since the controller has to onboard (at the > layer-7) the device in anyway: can we leverage that? For devices that are designed as controllers, yes. >=20 >>> yes, this is exactly what I was thinking about. >>>=20 >>> Would "mud-urls" / "include" be mutually exclusive? >=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t see why it would have to be. But now let=E2=80=99s = back up, just to >> make sure we=E2=80=99re not digging too deep a hole for the = application case >> that Ranga wants to get to. If the MUD protected device is declaring >> MUD URLs for MUD controllers and that is what all of this would boil >> down to, then the app case is really a completely separate mechanism, >> because apps don=E2=80=99t have MUD-URLs. >=20 >> If we do a two-stage, then we need a completely separate draft for = apps >> anyway, but I was hoping for some commonality. >=20 > Hmm. >=20 Indeed. But let=E2=80=99s not get wrapped around the axle here. I=E2=80=99= ll try and have something out for the controller case, and then let=E2=80=99= s talk about the other in Montreal. Ok? Eliot --Apple-Mail=_1B2458D9-F3BD-4F70-8C2B-5FBF48A12F7E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRPj8AAKCRBugA9nE248 uMrIAKDAvj4OjDz0TQUmjxCYdNRLlwc2IQCg8j+SB5U6LKFqQt8K//cwd0JcfQ0= =yswq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1B2458D9-F3BD-4F70-8C2B-5FBF48A12F7E-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 05:28:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAE6120058 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:28:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, 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HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: oscar.gonzalezdedios@telefonica.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0601MB2344 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:28:57 -0000 --_000_DB6PR0601MB26135EEE2AEBEC1DAF99F350FDFC0DB6PR0601MB2613_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUXVpbiwNCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIGNvbW1lbnRzLCBsZXQg bWUgYW5zd2VyIGlubGluZToNCk9zY2FyOg0KU3BlYWsgYXMgY29udHJpYnV0b3Igb3IgZm9yIHNv ZnR3YXJlIGltcGxlbWVudGVycywgSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHRoYW5rIHlvdSB0byBpbml0aWF0 ZSB0aGlzIHdvcmssIGEgZmV3IHRob3VnaHRzIG9uIHRoaXMgbW9kZWwgZGVzaWduIGNob2ljZToN 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cnR1ZGUgZGEgbGVnaXNsYcOnw6NvIHZpZ2VudGUuIFNlIHJlY2ViZXUgZXN0YSBtZW5zYWdlbSBw b3IgZXJybywgcm9nYW1vcy1saGUgcXVlIG5vcyBvIGNvbXVuaXF1ZSBpbWVkaWF0YW1lbnRlIHBv ciBlc3RhIG1lc21hIHZpYSBlIHByb2NlZGEgYSBzdWEgZGVzdHJ1acOnw6NvPGJyPg0KPC9mb250 Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_DB6PR0601MB26135EEE2AEBEC1DAF99F350FDFC0DB6PR0601MB2613_-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 13:38:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E15C12028B for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:38:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2nRS3FeOAnr for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guelah.shrubbery.net (guelah.shrubbery.net [198.58.5.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351C612027B for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by guelah.shrubbery.net (Postfix, from userid 7053) id ED4641A0485; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 20:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 20:38:16 +0000 From: john heasley To: opsawg@ietf.org Cc: Thorsten Dahm , John Heasley , "Douglas Gash (dcmgash)" , Andrej Ota , Chris Morrow Message-ID: <20190628203816.GP69542@shrubbery.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Request for comment regarding TLS in TACACS+ X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 20:38:19 -0000 With draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-13 nearing RFC status, we intend to return to one of the subjects with which this draft began: adding TLS support to TACACS+. We will submit a draft to OPSAWG adding TLS support for TACACS+ to include: - separate well-known port for TLS (no STARTTLS functionality) - address use of PSKs & TLS-Certs We invite comment about these and/or other TLS-related functionality for inclusion in the draft. From nobody Fri Jun 28 16:01:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03BB120931; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156176267791.11015.4152627328233487497.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] opsawg - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:58:10 -0000 Dear Joe Clarke, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. opsawg Session 1 (2:00 requested) Wednesday, 24 July 2019, Morning Session I 1000-1200 Room Name: Duluth size: 150 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/sessions/opsawg.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Operations and Management Area Working Group Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Joe Clarke Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: nvo3 ippm rtgwg netconf netmod Second Priority: idr detnet People who must be present: Warren "Ace" Kumari Joe Clarke Tianran Zhou Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: PLEASE NOTE: Combined OpsAWG / OpsAREA --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Jun 29 06:40:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F6912001A for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 06:40:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cIcPy9ML8XP8 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.223]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815A5120019 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 06:40:32 -0700 (PDT) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.218:34812.415517734 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-111.196.132.216 (unknown [172.18.0.218]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id 04AEB280092; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:40:25 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn Received: from EHLO ip<111.196.132.216> ([172.18.0.218]) by App0025 with ESMTP id e586a1d6-b263-4574-95f8-bfe45105f5be for bill.wu@huawei.com; Sat Jun 29 21:40:28 2019 X-filter-score: filter<0> X-Real-From: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.218 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:40:21 +0800 From: "Chongfeng Xie" To: "Qin Wu" , zhoutianran , opsawg References: X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7, 2, 8, 379[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <201906292140086002223@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart217783550362_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] =?gb2312?b?u9i4tDogUmU6ICBJLUQgQWN0aW9uOiBkcmFmdC13dS1t?= =?gb2312?b?b2RlbC1kcml2ZW4tbWFuYWdlbWVudC12aXJ0dWFsaXphdGlvbi0wNC50eHQ=?= X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:40:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart217783550362_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksICANCkZpcnN0bHksIEkgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGUgcHJvZ3Jlc3Npb24gb2YgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCwg d2hpY2ggZ2l2ZXMgYSBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgb2YgaG93IHRvIG1ha2UgbXVsdGlwbGUgbW9kZWxz IHdvcmsgdG9nZXRoZXIgdG8gbWVldCBzZXJ2aWNlIHByb3Zpb25pbmcgYXV0b21hdGljYWxseS4g IEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBJIGhhdmUgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBjb21tZW50cywNCg0KMSkgQXMgb25l IHR5cGUgb2YgbW9kZWwgaW4gdGhlIGZyYW1ld29yaywgbmV0d29yayByZXNvdXJjZSBtb2RlbCBz aG91bGQgYmUgZ2l2ZW4gYSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIG9yIGlsbHVzdHJhdGlvbiBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDIu MS4yLiBQZXJzb25hbGx5LCBJIHRoaW5rIG1vcmUgZm9jdXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGdpdmVuIHRvIHRo ZSBmcmFtZXdvcmsgaXRzZWxmLCB0aGUgc2VyaWVzIG9mIG1vZGVscyBjYW4gYmUgdGFrZW4gYXMg ZXhhbXBsZXMuDQoNCjIpICBJbiBzZWN0aW9uIDMuMSx0aGVyZSBpcyB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRl 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Hi,  
Firstly, I&nb= sp;support the progression of this draft, wh= ich gives a architecture of how to make=  multiple models work together to meet = service provioning automatically.  In addition, I = ;have the following comments,

1) As one&nb= sp;type of model in the framework, network&n= bsp;resource model should be given a definit= ion or illustration in section 2.1.2. Person= ally, I think more focus should be give= n to the framework itself, the series o= f models can be taken as examples.

2)=   In section 3.1,there is the following=  text   "The IETF has developed a = number of service level, network level and&n= bsp;device level modules.  Different service = ;level modules may rely on the same set=  of network level or device level modul= es.  Service level modules usually follow&nb= sp;top down approach and are mostly customer= -facing models providing a common model cons= truct for higher level network services, whi= ch can be further mapped to network tec= hnology-specific models at lower layer.=A1=B0=A1=B1
    It seems that this talk&n= bsp;about the backgound of this architecture,&nbs= p;if so, it is better to move it t= o the first section 1 of this draft.

Chongfeng
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=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Qin Wu
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3= =BA 2019-06-24 14:43
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Tianran Zhou; opsawg@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2= =A3=BA Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-= virtualization-04.txt
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD= =BC=FE-----
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=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Tianran Zhou
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= =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C224=C8=D5 10:35
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=CA= =D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; opsawg@ietf.org
= =0A
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-vir= tualization-04.txt
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
&n= bsp;
=0A
> -----Original Message-----
=0A
> From: = Qin Wu
=0A
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 11:47 AM
=0A> To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; opsawg@ietf.org=0A
> Subject: RE: I-D Action:
=0A
> draft-wu-model-d= riven-management-virtualization-04.txt
=0A
>
=0A
>= ; Hi, Tianran:
=0A
> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
= =0A
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Tianran Zhou
=0A
> =B7=A2=CB= =CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C221=C8=D5 11:11
=0A
> =CA=D5= =BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; opsawg@ietf.org
=0A<= div>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: I-D Action:
=0A
> draft-wu-model-dr= iven-management-virtualization-04.txt
=0A
>
=0A
>= Hi Qin and the authors,
=0A
>
=0A
> I think this= is a valuable work as a comprehensive thinking on the
=0A
> = model driven work in IETF.
=0A
> I am very interested on the a= rchitecture, the classification, the
=0A
> mapping methodolog= y, etc.
=0A
>
=0A
> Some points may be useful:=0A
> 1. When I am looking at the " Figure 1: An overview of IET= F YANG
=0A
> Modules", I think it's better not to list the sp= ecific models in "Network Service Models".
=0A
> Or you can us= e for example. Otherwise people may think those are the
=0A
>= only considered service models in IETF.
=0A
> [Qin]: Fair poi= nt, I intend to use them as example modules and will
=0A
> ma= ke this clear in the figure 1, e.g., add "etc" for each category of models= .
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
> 2. While I think= it's really good to investigate "all" the current
=0A
> mode= ls in IETF, you may not need to list them in the main content. You
= =0A
> can keep the classification, the introduction to each categor= y, the
=0A
> inter-connectivity description. But I suggest to= move the
=0A
> "document:introduction" to the appendix. As y= ou mentioned, the
=0A
> document identifies a comprehensive l= ist of modules to exemplify the
=0A
> proposed approach, but = the document does not claim to be exhaustive. The list may keep exploding = and make the document not stable.
=0A
>
=0A
> [Qi= n]: The rationale behind is first list what model does IETF have on
= =0A
> the table and then discuss how these models are put together,= move
=0A
> model introductions to appendix may make people f= eel disconnected, in
=0A
> my personal view. Yes, we have sta= tement to say we are not intending
=0A
> to enumerate all IET= F defined YANG models. We can add a few text in
=0A
> each se= ction title to say the models listed here are just examples.
=0A> One example such section title could
=0A
> be:
=0A<= div>> "2.1.1.  Network Service Models: Definition and Samples".=0A
> Does this address your concern?
=0A
 
= =0A
Hi Qin,
=0A
 
=0A
I am OK with this modific= ation. This makes the draft more clear.
=0A
Maybe, a better way i= s to state only your perspective and conclusion in the main content. The e= xamples, from my perspective, are support material. I am afraid they will = affect people to focus on your points, especially when you give each one m= odel an abstract.
=0A
But this is trivial compared to your work = have done in the draft. :-)
=0A
 
=0A
Cheers,
= =0A
Tianran
=0A
 
=0A
[Qin]: Thanks, Tianran, p= oint taken.
=0A
 
=0A
> More comments will come = later.
=0A
>
=0A
> Cheers,
=0A
> Tian= ran
=0A
> > -----Original Message-----
=0A
> &g= t; From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
= =0A
> > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 10:38 AM
=0A
> &= gt; To: opsawg@ietf.org
=0A
> > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D A= ction:
=0A
> > draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualizat= ion-04.txt
=0A
> >
=0A
> > Hi, Folks:
= =0A
> > We have submitted an v-04 of
=0A
> > draf= t-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization based on feedback on
=0A=
> > the ML and last IETF meeting discussion
=0A
> = > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wu-model-driven-manageme<= /div>=0A
> > nt
=0A
> > -v
=0A
> >= irtualization-04
=0A
> > And would like to solicit more fe= edback on this draft.
=0A
> >
=0A
> > The go= al of this draft is to discuss how top down top down built
=0A
&= gt; > model (e.g., customer-facing data models) interact with bottom up=
=0A
> > built model (network resource-facing data models)= in the context of
=0A
> > service delivery and assurance.=
=0A
> >
=0A
> > The document identifies a c= omprehensive list of modules to exemplify
=0A
> > the prop= osed approach, but the document does not claim to be exhaustive.
=0A<= div>> >
=0A
> > Further Comments, suggestions, input = are welcome.
=0A
> >
=0A
> > -Qin (on behalf= of coauthors)
=0A
> > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----=0A
> > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announc= e-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED
=0A
> > internet-drafts@ie= tf.org
=0A
> > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C21= 9=C8=D5 20:14
=0A
> > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf= .org
=0A
> > =D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action:
=0A
> dr= aft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt
=0A
> >= ;
=0A
> >
=0A
> > A New Internet-Draft is av= ailable from the on-line Internet-Drafts
=0A
> > directori= es.
=0A
> >
=0A
> >
=0A
> >&n= bsp;        Title   &nbs= p;       : A Framework for Automating Servic= e and Network
=0A
> > Management with YANG
=0A
>= ; >         Authors  =        : Qin Wu
=0A
> > =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p; Mohamed Boucadair
=0A
> >     &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;         Young Lee
=0A> > Filename        :
=0A<= div>> > draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt= =0A
> > Pages        &n= bsp;  : 37
=0A
> > Date     =        : 2019-06-19
=0A
> >=0A
> > Abstract:
=0A
> >    M= odel-driven service and network management provides a programmatic
= =0A
> >    and standard-based approach for repres= enting (virtual) services or
=0A
> >    netw= orks and configuration to the network device that are used to
=0A> >    build and deliver the service.  Models c= an be used at various phases
=0A
> >    of s= ervice and network management life cycle such as service
=0A
>= >    instantiation, service provisionning, optimization= , monitoring, and
=0A
> >    diagnostic.&nbs= p; Also, models can be designed to automate network
=0A
> >=     management and provide closed-loop control for the sake= of adaptive
=0A
> >    and deterministic se= rvice creation, delivery, and maintenance.
=0A
> >
=0A=
> >    This document provides a framework that d= escribes and discusses an
=0A
> >    archite= cture for service and network management automation with YANG
=0A> >    modeling technologies.  An applicability= of YANG data models to=0A
> >    automatio= n of virtualized network service is also investigated.
=0A
> &= gt;
=0A
> >    The document aims to exemplif= y an approach to illustrate the journey
=0A
> >  =   from technology-agnostic services to technology-specific actions.=0A
> >
=0A
> >
=0A
> > The IE= TF datatracker status page for this draft is:
=0A
> > https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wu-model-driven-management-vi
=0A> > rt
=0A
> > ua
=0A
> > lization/=
=0A
> >
=0A
> > There are also htmlized ver= sions available at:
=0A
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-wu-model-driven-management-virtual
=0A
> > iz
=0A> > at=0A
> > ion-04
=0A
> > https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wu-model-driven-manageme
=0A> > nt=0A
> > -v
=0A
> > irtualiza= tion-04
=0A
> >
=0A
> > A diff from the prev= ious version is available at:
=0A
> > https://www.ietf.org/= rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wu-model-driven-management-v
=0A
> > i= r
=0A
> > tu
=0A
> > alization-04
=0A> >=0A
> >
=0A
> > Please note tha= t it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
=0A
> >= submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
=0A<= div>> tools.ietf.org.=0A
> >
=0A
> > Int= ernet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
=0A
> >= ; ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
=0A
> >
=0A
= > > _______________________________________________
=0A
>= ; > I-D-Announce mailing list
=0A
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.= org
=0A
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-annou= nce
=0A
> > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org= /shadow.html or
=0A
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-si= tes.txt
=0A
> > ___________________________________________= ____
=0A
> > OPSAWG mailing list
=0A
> > OPS= AWG@ietf.org
=0A
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= opsawg
=0A
_______________________________________________
= =0A
OPSAWG mailing list
=0A
OPSAWG@ietf.org
=0A
http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart217783550362_=------ From nobody Sun Jun 30 18:45:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E171201EB for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:45:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jMJyYVFBBYPJ for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A5011201E9 for ; Sun, 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([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 09:45:20 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: =?utf-8?B?T3NjYXIgR29uesOhbGV6IGRlIERpb3M=?= , "OPSAWG@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 Thread-Index: AdUvphtAqZCiXLPvRl+7j1eww1LG5w== Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 01:45:20 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC5DAnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Feedback and operators+implementers input for L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-00 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 01:45:36 -0000 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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC5DAnkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Sun Jun 30 19:22:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD861201F0 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 19:22:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MBpdBFanaRT9 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 19:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5892E1201EF for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 19:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2EDBE9813E12D4926476; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:22:46 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:22:45 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:22:35 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "OPSAWG@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-0 Thread-Index: AdUvrwegtsQg14vvRkuUbrhmysDe3w== Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 02:22:35 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC61Fnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Review of L3NM draft-aguado-opsawg-l3sm-l3nm-0 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 02:22:52 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC61Fnkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Oscar: I have reviewed draft proposal you posted on https://github.com/oscargdd/l3= nm/tree/master/yang/01 which is subject to changes and have a few comments = and suggestions as follows: 1. ie-profiles is defined under vpn-service in parallel with vpn-node I am not sure it is necessary to define profile or template for RD and RT i= n a group, suppose we only have 3 or 5 RDs, it make sense to define them as profile or= template, and reuse these profile or template. However suppose we have ten= s or hundreds of RDs, we have to define hundreds of ie-profile, which is no= t desirable, Suggested change is to consolidate parameters within ie-profiles into param= eters within vpn-node. 2. Since we have already allocated RT, RD associated with the sevice,= VPN-policy became useless, suggest to remove it. 3. Group-id defined in site level and site-network-access level becom= e useless, since it is used in L3SM model as access constraints parameters = to select PE, in L3NM model, PE has already been selected. However in L3NM model, we still want to classify the network access associa= ted with the VPN service into several groups and want to know which network= accesses associated with the same VPN belong to which group, e.g., when on= e site connect to two VPN, this site has three network accesses, let's say = access A, Access B, Access C Access A, Access B connect to VPN A, Access C connect to VPN B, we can clas= sify them into two group, Access A and Access B belong to dual home group, = Access C belong to single home group. Suggest change is to introduce access group level between site level and ne= twork access level, looks like this: +--rw sites +--rw site* [site-id] +--rw site-id svc-id +--rw access-groups +--rw access-group* [group-id] +--rw group-id svc-id +--rw site-network-accesses +--rw site-network-access* [site-network-access-id] +--rw site-network-access-id svc-id + vpn-node +--rw bearer | +--... +--rw availability 4. Go back to the vpn-attachments proposal in the previous email to a= ddress the relationship between site-network-access and vpn-node, we can op= timize that proposal a little bit further,i.e., remove vpn-attachment conta= iner, directly introduce vpn-node-id under each site-network-access. What d= o you think of it? 5. Regarding tg-type and cvlan-id under dot1q-vlan-tagged, it is no= t clear we should define multiple tag types, what is the real use case ? Al= so usually one interface will be configured with multiple cvlan-ids, how to= deal with it? Hope these comments help. Thanks! -Qin Wu --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC61Fnkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Oscar:

I have reviewed draft proposal you posted on https://gi= thub.com/oscargdd/l3nm/tree/master/yang/01 which is subject to changes = and have a few comments and suggestions as follows:

1.    =    ie-profiles is defined under= vpn-service in parallel with vpn-node

I am not sure it is necessary t= o define profile or template for RD and RT in a group,

suppose we only have 3 or 5 RDs= , it make sense to define them as profile or template, and reuse these prof= ile or template. However suppose we have tens or hundreds of RDs, we have t= o define hundreds of ie-profile, which is not desirable,

Suggested change is to consolid= ate parameters within ie-profiles into parameters within vpn-node.

 

2.    =    Since we have already alloca= ted RT, RD associated with the sevice, VPN-policy became useless, suggest t= o remove it.

 

3.    =    Group-id defined in site lev= el and site-network-access level become useless, since it is used in L3SM m= odel as access constraints parameters to select PE, in L3NM model, PE has already been selected.

However in L3NM model, we still= want to classify the network access associated with the VPN service into s= everal groups and want to know which network accesses associated with the s= ame VPN belong to which group, e.g., when one site connect to two VPN, this site has three network accesses, le= t’s say access A, Access B, Access C

Access A, Access B connect to V= PN A, Access C connect to VPN B, we can classify them into two group, Acces= s A and Access B belong to dual home group, Access C belong to single home = group.

Suggest change is to introduce = access group level between site level and network access level, looks like = this:

     +-= -rw sites

     &= nbsp;  +--rw site* [site-id]

     &= nbsp;     +--rw site-id    &nbs= p;             = svc-id

     &= nbsp;     +--rw access-groups

     &= nbsp;        +--rw access-group* [gr= oup-id]

     &= nbsp;           +--rw= group-id      svc-id

     &= nbsp;           +--rw= site-network-accesses

     &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;  +--rw site-network-access* [site-network-access-id]

     &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;       +--rw site-network-access-id &nb= sp;    svc-id

     &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;       +  vpn-node

     &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;      +--rw bearer

     &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;       |  +--…<= /p>

     &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;      +--rw availability<= /p>

 

4.    =    Go back to the vpn-attachmen= ts proposal in the previous email to address the relationship between site-= network-access and vpn-node, we can optimize that proposal a little bit further,i.e., remove vpn-attachment container, direc= tly introduce vpn-node-id under each site-network-access. What do you think= of it?

5.    =    Regarding  tg-type and =  cvlan-id under dot1q-vlan-tagged, it is not clear we should define mu= ltiple tag types, what is the real use case ? Also usually one interface will be configured with multiple cvlan-ids, how to deal with= it?

Hope these comments help. Thank= s!

 

-Qin Wu

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC61Fnkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Sun Jun 30 20:27:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C2A1201F0 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 20:27:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v_rUG5-TrXcM for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 20:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A20E512019D for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2019 20:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0504D1B7B323AA9677BC for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 04:27:06 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 04:27:04 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:26:53 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Chongfeng Xie , Tianran Zhou , opsawg Thread-Topic: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt Thread-Index: AdUvvAPeVtLuPcJsSe6vkKtPVQAoSA== Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:53 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Thanks Chon= gfeng for useful comments, please see my reply inline below.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Chongfeng Xie = [mailto:xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:<= /span> 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C229=C8=D5 21:40
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@hua= wei.com>; opsawg <opsawg@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: =BB=D8=B8=B4: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-= wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

 

Hi,  

Firstly, I&nb= sp;support the progression of this draft, whi= ch gives a architecture of how to make&n= bsp;multiple models work together to meet ser= vice provioning automatically.  In addition, I have the following comments,=

1) As one type of model in the fram= ework, network resource model should be given=  a definition or illustration in section = ;2.1.2. Personally, I think more focus should=  be given to the framework itself, the&n= bsp;series of models can be taken as exa= mples.
[Qin]:Good suggestion, the = purpose of this draft is to investigate and discuss how different level mod= el are put together to define the service, realize the service and provide the service assurance, one important component is = network resource model, that=A1=AFs why introduce it in this framework. You= are right, to add clarity, I will add definition for it in the next versio= n.
2)  In section 3.1,there is the followin= g text   "The IETF has developed a&= nbsp;number of service level, network level a= nd device level modules.  Different service&n= bsp;level modules may rely on the same s= et of network level or device level modu= les.  Service level modules usually follow&nb= sp;top down approach and are mostly customer-= facing models providing a common model constr= uct for higher level network services, which&= nbsp;can be further mapped to network technol= ogy-specific models at lower layer.=A1=B0=A1=B1

    It seems that this talk ab= out the backgound of this architecture, if&nb= sp;so, it is better to move it to t= he first section 1 of this draft.
[Qin]: I am not sure= I make the scope clear. The logic in the introduction section of this draf= t is first describe why model is important, and then describe what the problem is for these developed models, last clarify= the goal of this draft, I will see how to tweak section 3.1 and consolidat= e some of confusing text into section 1. Thanks for your advice.=


Chongfeng=

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Qin Wu

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA = ;2019-06-24 14:43

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Tianran Zhou; opsawg@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [OPSAWG= ] I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

-----<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei UI",s= ans-serif;color:black">=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Tianran Zhou

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C224=C8=D5 10:35

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawe= i.com>; opsawg@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: I-D Action: draft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.t= xt

 

 

 

> -----Ori= ginal Message-----

> From: Qi= n Wu

> Sent: Fr= iday, June 21, 2019 11:47 AM

> To: Tian= ran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.c= om>; opsawg@ietf.org

> Subject:= RE: I-D Action:

> draft-wu= -model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

>

> Hi, Tian= ran:

> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE--= ---

> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Tia= nran Zhou

> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C221=C8=D5 11:11

> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin= Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>; opsawg@ietf.org

> =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: I-D A= ction:

> draft-wu= -model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

>

> Hi Qin a= nd the authors,

>

> I think = this is a valuable work as a comprehensive thinking on the

> model dr= iven work in IETF.

> I am ver= y interested on the architecture, the classification, the

> mapping = methodology, etc.

>

> Some poi= nts may be useful:

> 1. When = I am looking at the " Figure 1: An overview of IETF YANG

> Modules&= quot;, I think it's better not to list the specific models in "Network= Service Models".

> Or you c= an use for example. Otherwise people may think those are the

> only con= sidered service models in IETF.

> [Qin]: F= air point, I intend to use them as example modules and will

> make thi= s clear in the figure 1, e.g., add "etc" for each category of mod= els.

>

>

> 2. While= I think it's really good to investigate "all" the current

> models i= n IETF, you may not need to list them in the main content. You

> can keep= the classification, the introduction to each category, the

> inter-co= nnectivity description. But I suggest to move the

> "do= cument:introduction" to the appendix. As you mentioned, the

> document= identifies a comprehensive list of modules to exemplify the

> proposed= approach, but the document does not claim to be exhaustive. The list may k= eep exploding and make the document not stable.

>

> [Qin]: T= he rationale behind is first list what model does IETF have on

> the tabl= e and then discuss how these models are put together, move

> model in= troductions to appendix may make people feel disconnected, in

> my perso= nal view. Yes, we have statement to say we are not intending

> to enume= rate all IETF defined YANG models. We can add a few text in

> each sec= tion title to say the models listed here are just examples.

> One exam= ple such section title could

> be:=

> "2.= 1.1.  Network Service Models: Definition and Samples".=

> Does thi= s address your concern?

 

Hi Qin,<= /o:p>

 

I am OK with = this modification. This makes the draft more clear.

Maybe, a bett= er way is to state only your perspective and conclusion in the main content= . The examples, from my perspective, are support material. I am afraid they will affect people to focus on your points, esp= ecially when you give each one model an abstract.

But this is t= rivial compared to your work have done in the draft. :-)<= /p>

 

Cheers,<= /o:p>

Tianran<= /o:p>

 

[Qin]: Thanks= , Tianran, point taken.

 

> More com= ments will come later.

>

> Cheers,<= o:p>

> Tianran<= o:p>

> > ---= --Original Message-----

> > Fro= m: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu

> > Sen= t: Friday, June 21, 2019 10:38 AM

> > To: opsawg@ietf.org

> > Sub= ject: Re: [OPSAWG] I-D Action:

> > dra= ft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

> >

> > Hi,= Folks:

> > We = have submitted an v-04 of

> > dra= ft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization based on feedback on

> > the= ML and last IETF meeting discussion

> > nt<= o:p>

> > -v<= o:p>

> > irt= ualization-04

> > And= would like to solicit more feedback on this draft.

> >

> > The= goal of this draft is to discuss how top down top down built

> > mod= el (e.g., customer-facing data models) interact with bottom up

> > bui= lt model (network resource-facing data models) in the context of

> > ser= vice delivery and assurance.

> >

> > The= document identifies a comprehensive list of modules to exemplify

> > the= proposed approach, but the document does not claim to be exhaustive.<= /o:p>

> >

> > Fur= ther Comments, suggestions, input are welcome.

> >

> > -Qi= n (on behalf of coauthors)

> > ---= --=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----

> > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA6=D4=C219=C8=D5 20:14

> > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org

> > =D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Actio= n:

> draft-wu= -model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

> >

> >

> > A N= ew Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts

> > dir= ectories.

> >

> >

> >&nbs= p;        Title    &= nbsp;      : A Framework for Automating Service an= d Network

> > Man= agement with YANG

> >&nbs= p;        Authors    = ;     : Qin Wu

> >&nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mohamed Boucadair

> >&nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Young Lee

> > Fil= ename        :

> > dra= ft-wu-model-driven-management-virtualization-04.txt

> > Pag= es           : 37

> > Dat= e            : 2019-= 06-19

> >

> > Abs= tract:

> >&nbs= p;   Model-driven service and network management provides a progr= ammatic

> >&nbs= p;   and standard-based approach for representing (virtual) servi= ces or

> >&nbs= p;   networks and configuration to the network device that are us= ed to

> >&nbs= p;   build and deliver the service.  Models can be used at v= arious phases

> >&nbs= p;   of service and network management life cycle such as service=

> >&nbs= p;   instantiation, service provisionning, optimization, monitori= ng, and

> >&nbs= p;   diagnostic.  Also, models can be designed to automate n= etwork

> >&nbs= p;   management and provide closed-loop control for the sake of a= daptive

> >&nbs= p;   and deterministic service creation, delivery, and maintenanc= e.

> >

> >&nbs= p;   This document provides a framework that describes and discus= ses an

> >&nbs= p;   architecture for service and network management automation w= ith YANG

> >&nbs= p;   modeling technologies.  An applicability of YANG data m= odels to

> >&nbs= p;   automation of virtualized network service is also investigat= ed.

> >

> >&nbs= p;   The document aims to exemplify an approach to illustrate the= journey

> >&nbs= p;   from technology-agnostic services to technology-specific act= ions.

> >

> >

> > The= IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:

> > rt<= o:p>

> > ua<= o:p>

> > liz= ation/

> >

> > The= re are also htmlized versions available at:

> > iz<= o:p>

> > at<= o:p>

> > ion= -04

> > nt<= o:p>

> > -v<= o:p>

> > irt= ualization-04

> >

> > A d= iff from the previous version is available at:

> > ir<= o:p>

> > tu<= o:p>

> > ali= zation-04

> >

> >

> > Ple= ase note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of

> > sub= mission until the htmlized version and diff are available at

> tools.ie= tf.org.

> >

> > Int= ernet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:

> >

> > ___= ____________________________________________

> > I-D= -Announce mailing list

> > Int= ernet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html= or

> > ___= ____________________________________________

> > OPS= AWG mailing list

_____________= __________________________________

OPSAWG mailin= g list

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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] New Version Notification for draft-sun-opsawg-sdwan-service-model-03.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 06:57:13 -0000 RGVhciBXRywNCg0KV2Ugc3VibWl0dGVkIHRoZSAwMyB2ZXJzaW9uIHRvIGJldHRlciBhbGlnbiB3 aXRoIHRoZSBNRUYgU0QtV0FOIHByb2plY3QuDQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwv ZHJhZnQtc3VuLW9wc2F3Zy1zZHdhbi1zZXJ2aWNlLW1vZGVsLTAzDQoNCkNoYXJsZXMgRWNrZWws IGFzIGEgbmV3IGNvLWF1dGhvciwgaGVscGVkIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyBmb3IgdGhl IA0KTUVGIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gYW5kIHBvbGlzaCB0aGUgZW50aXJlIHRleHQgZm9yIHJlYWRh YmlsaXR5Lg0KDQpXZSBhbHNvIGFkZGVkIEFwcGVuZGl4IDIgdG8gZXhwbGFpbiB0aGUgZGlmZmVy ZW5jZSBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBSVEdXRyBPU0UgbW9kZWwgDQphbmQgdGhlIFNELVdBTiBtb2RlbCwg YXMgdGhlIGxhc3QgSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nIGhhZCBjb25jZXJucyBhYm91dCBvdmVybGFwcGluZyB3 b3JrLg0KDQpGdXJ0aGVyIENvbW1lbnRzLCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucywgaW5wdXQgYXJlIHdlbGNvbWUu DQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcywNCkJvIChvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgY29hdXRob3JzKQ0KDQoNCg0KLS0t LS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBpbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcg W21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE55bm0 NuaciDI55pelIDE1OjQyDQrmlLbku7bkuro6IFFpb25nIFN1biA8c3VucWlvbmcuYnJpQGNoaW5h dGVsZWNvbS5jbj47IENoYXJsZXMgRWNrZWwgPGVja2VsY3VAY2lzY28uY29tPjsgV3VibyAobGFu YSkgPGxhbmEud3Vib0BodWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgSG9uZ2xlaSBYdSA8c3VucWlvbmcuYnJpQGNoaW5h dGVsZWNvbS5jbj47IFd1Ym8gKGxhbmEpIDxsYW5hLnd1Ym9AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IFFpbiBXdSA8 YmlsbC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPg0K5Li76aKYOiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9y IGRyYWZ0LXN1bi1vcHNhd2ctc2R3YW4tc2VydmljZS1tb2RlbC0wMy50eHQNCg0KDQpBIG5ldyB2 ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQtc3VuLW9wc2F3Zy1zZHdhbi1zZXJ2aWNlLW1vZGVsLTAzLnR4 dA0KaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1Ym1pdHRlZCBieSBCbyBXdSBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRv IHRoZSBJRVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnkuDQoNCk5hbWU6CQlkcmFmdC1zdW4tb3BzYXdnLXNkd2FuLXNl cnZpY2UtbW9kZWwNClJldmlzaW9uOgkwMw0KVGl0bGU6CQlBIFlBTkcgRGF0YSBNb2RlbCBmb3Ig U0QtV0FOIFNlcnZpY2UgRGVsaXZlcnkNCkRvY3VtZW50IGRhdGU6CTIwMTktMDYtMjkNCkdyb3Vw OgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQpQYWdlczoJCTQ4DQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LXN1bi1vcHNhd2ctc2R3YW4t c2VydmljZS1tb2RlbC0wMy50eHQNClN0YXR1czogICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2Vy LmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1zdW4tb3BzYXdnLXNkd2FuLXNlcnZpY2UtbW9kZWwvDQpIdG1s aXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXN1bi1vcHNhd2ct c2R3YW4tc2VydmljZS1tb2RlbC0wMw0KSHRtbGl6ZWQ6ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNr ZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtc3VuLW9wc2F3Zy1zZHdhbi1zZXJ2aWNlLW1vZGVs DQpEaWZmOiAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcmZjZGlmZj91cmwyPWRyYWZ0 LXN1bi1vcHNhd2ctc2R3YW4tc2VydmljZS1tb2RlbC0wMw0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgIFRoaXMg ZG9jdW1lbnQgcHJvdmlkZXMgYSBZQU5HIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgZm9yIGFuIFNELVdBTiBzZXJ2aWNl LiAgQW4NCiAgIFNELVdBTiBzZXJ2aWNlIGlzIGEgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5IHNlcnZpY2Ugb2ZmZXJl ZCBieSBhIHNlcnZpY2UNCiAgIHByb3ZpZGVyIG5ldHdvcmsgdG8gcHJvdmlkZSBjb25uZWN0aXZp dHkgYWNyb3NzIGRpZmZlcmVudCBsb2NhdGlvbnMNCiAgIG9mIGEgY3VzdG9tZXIgbmV0d29yayBv ciBiZXR3ZWVuIGEgY3VzdG9tZXIgbmV0d29yayBhbmQgYW4gZXh0ZXJuYWwNCiAgIG5ldHdvcmss IHN1Y2ggYXMgdGhlIEludGVybmV0IG9yIGEgcHJpdmF0ZS9wdWJsaWMgY2xvdWQgbmV0d29yay4N CiAgIFRoaXMgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5IGlzIHByb3ZpZGVkIGFzIGFuIG92ZXJsYXkgY29uc3RydWN0 ZWQgdXNpbmcgb25lIG9mDQogICBtb3JlIHVuZGVybGF5IG5ldHdvcmtzLiAgVGhlIG1vZGVsIGNh biBiZSB1c2VkIGJ5IGEgc2VydmljZQ0KICAgb3JjaGVzdHJhdG9yIG9mIGEgc2VydmljZSBwcm92 aWRlciB0byByZXF1ZXN0LCBjb25maWd1cmUsIGFuZCBtYW5hZ2UNCiAgIHRoZSBjb21wb25lbnRz IG9mIGFuIFNELVdBTiBzZXJ2aWNlLg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQoNCg0K UGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhl IHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBh cmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0K DQo=