From nobody Mon Jul 1 00:21:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FF4120225; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:21:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HjmmgBYZUkxz; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6798F120222; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 628A1267F4133DE75EC9; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:21:51 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:21:51 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 15:20:51 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Eliot Lear , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD Thread-Index: AdUv3HjWBDQcYX3NS2OJHA5W7PRpmQ== Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 07:20:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC850nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC850nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 1 00:52:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0C912003E; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:52:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1vS6rsfyED3j; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52922120019; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id D30377432618E0C524F3; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:52:02 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:52:02 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 15:47:03 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Warren Kumari CC: Michael Richardson , "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Thread-Index: AdUv37iWfYGIgFgNQGKghrZc4tOlPA== Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 07:47:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:52:09 -0000 LS0tLS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBXYXJyZW4gS3VtYXJpIFttYWlsdG86 d2FycmVuQGt1bWFyaS5uZXRdIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE55bm0NuaciDI05pelIDE2OjM3 DQrmlLbku7bkuro6IFFpbiBXdSA8YmlsbC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPg0K5oqE6YCBOiBNaWNoYWVs IFJpY2hhcmRzb24gPG1jcitpZXRmQHNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYT47IG9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgT3Bz QVdHIENoYWlycyA8b3BzYXdnLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCuS4u+mimDogUmU6IFtPUFNBV0dd IFdHIGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXdrdW1hcmktb3BzYXdnLXNkaS0wNA0KDQpPbiBN b24sIEp1biAyNCwgMjAxOSBhdCAyOjUxIEFNIFFpbiBXdSA8YmlsbC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPiB3 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boundary="Apple-Mail=_7A3D637B-05DF-4EFA-8011-2B329655C0AF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 09:52:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.167.168, [10.61.167.168] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:52:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7A3D637B-05DF-4EFA-8011-2B329655C0AF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C6460DE7-847E-4C1A-ADF3-809B04B43CDA" --Apple-Mail=_C6460DE7-847E-4C1A-ADF3-809B04B43CDA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org = ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Eliot Lear > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5= 17:48 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: opsawg@ietf.org ; = mud@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in = MUD >=20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses = one gap in MUD (there are several). In a MUD file one can say that one = wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D = meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a = =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class name of controller. >=20 > In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and = populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, = either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or = a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . = That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a = controller declare itself as a candidate controller. >=20 > [Qin]: Since MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP = extension, why not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s = declaration? So the RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and = controller, if my understanding is correct. > I believe this is network initiated solution, you might have client = initiated solution, but probably more complicated than network initiated = solution. Can you say a few more words? I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite = following you. Eliot >=20 > That at least provides a hint to the administrator that this = particular device is capable of serving in a particular role. >=20 > To make that declaration, the device must- > Form the declaration; > Find the MUD manager; and > Send it. >=20 > Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and = then place it in various spots. >=20 > Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: > Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose = device that has an app that is intended to be a controller? >=20 > If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the = declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the = device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting. = In this case we have two choices: >=20 > Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this = doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. > Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager. >=20 > I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a = mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an = internal part of the network infrastructure. >=20 > Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the = MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the = user infrastructure, which is a change. >=20 > One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful = endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be = exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may = not. >=20 > My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the = easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to = do the app version of this. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > Eliot --Apple-Mail=_C6460DE7-847E-4C1A-ADF3-809B04B43CDA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Eliot Lear
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 17:48
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Declaring = something to be a controller in MUD
 
Hi everyone,
 
A few of = us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses one gap in = MUD (there are several).  In a MUD file one can say that one wants = to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D = meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a = =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class name of controller.
 
In = either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and = populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, = either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or a class http://example.com/mudclass1. =  That can be laborious.  To assist, we are examining ways to = have a controller declare itself as a candidate controller.
 
[Qin]: Since = MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP extension, why = not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s declaration? So the = RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and controller, if my = understanding is correct.
I believe this is network initiated solution, you might have = client initiated solution, but probably more complicated than network = initiated solution.

Can you say a few more words?  I=E2=80=99m not = sure I=E2=80=99m quite following you.

Eliot
 
 That at least provides = a hint to the administrator that this particular device is capable of = serving in a particular role.
 
To make that declaration, the device must-
  • Form the = declaration;
  • Find the MUD = manager; and
  • Send it.
 
Forming = the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and then place = it in various spots.
 
Finding the MUD manager depends on one question:
  • Was the device = built to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an = app that is intended to be a controller?
 
If the = device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the declaration = into that devices own MUD file as an extension.  If the device is a = general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting.  In = this case we have two choices:
 
  • Either = create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this doesn=E2=80=99t = seem very plug and play.
  • Make = the declaration directly to the MUD manager.
 
I=E2=80=99= m going to focus on the latter for the moment.  It is easy enough = to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a = mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an = internal part of the network infrastructure.
 
Let me = call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the MUD = manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the user = infrastructure, which is a change.
 
One = possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful endpoint = into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be exposed. =  But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may = not.
 
My = thinking is that we do this work in two stages.  First handle the = easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to = do the app version of this.
 
Thoughts?
 
Eliot

= --Apple-Mail=_C6460DE7-847E-4C1A-ADF3-809B04B43CDA-- --Apple-Mail=_7A3D637B-05DF-4EFA-8011-2B329655C0AF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRm7oQAKCRBugA9nE248 uHQsAKC4DUk9BsbeQr+WRh2SzU5r1ztj/ACgt6lGsYiEsNkV2k1LSOSZjYxcSlk= =wvJe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7A3D637B-05DF-4EFA-8011-2B329655C0AF-- From nobody Mon Jul 1 00:54:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5AB120041 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4N Cj4gDQo+IFRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBPUFNBV0cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IE9QU0FX R0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29wc2F3 Zw0K From nobody Mon Jul 1 01:27:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3629120230; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 01:27:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id roA-pCHQK5lS; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 01:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D8C7120058; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 01:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6EAA1F541CDC6B3F0224; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 09:27:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 09:27:22 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 16:23:04 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Eliot Lear CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD Thread-Index: AdUv5UY0UsnBYD8xSFyA1RPyGtKUpw== Date: 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In-Reply-To: Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.163.11, [10.61.163.11] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:49:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_65C116C0-416E-4A03-B51C-849B9FB665AB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_25482C61-C038-4E40-91D7-B84DF2453752" --Apple-Mail=_25482C61-C038-4E40-91D7-B84DF2453752 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 1 Jul 2019, at 10:23, Qin Wu > wrote: >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com = ] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 = 15:52 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org ; = mud@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a = controller in MUD >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu > wrote: >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org = ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Eliot Lear > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5= 17:48 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: opsawg@ietf.org ; = mud@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in = MUD >=20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses = one gap in MUD (there are several). In a MUD file one can say that one = wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D = meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a = =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class name of controller. >=20 > In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and = populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, = either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or = a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . = That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a = controller declare itself as a candidate controller. >=20 > [Qin]: Since MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP = extension, why not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s = declaration? So the RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and = controller, if my understanding is correct. > I believe this is network initiated solution, you might have client = initiated solution, but probably more complicated than network initiated = solution. >=20 > Can you say a few more words? I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite = following you. > [Qin]: What I am suggesting is NMS preconfigures the MUD manager with = controller=E2=80=99s declaration information, during DHCP process or DNS = process, the controller=E2=80=99s declaration can be returned > To the router or switch between the thing and MUD manager or return to = the thing, the router or the thing can access controller through = controller delclartion. >=20 > If the MUD manager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP = Discovery or DNS process can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to = preconfigure DHCP server with MUD manager information. I apologize, but I=E2=80=99m not quite following. Let=E2=80=99s step = through what I=E2=80=99m trying to solve, and then let=E2=80=99s step = through your flow. Device sends a MUD URL X that points to a MUD file that says to permit = ip access to my-controller. Now- how do we determine who =E2=80=9Cmy-controller=E2=80=9D for MUD URL = X is? Ways to do that: Ask the administrator (pre-configuration) Provide the administrator hints Controller says who it can control (by MUD URLs, etc) or Device says which controllers (by MUD URL) are good candidates Other If it=E2=80=99s the controller, then we can do a RESTful interface. If = it=E2=80=99s the device, we already have a communication path. Nothing = stops us from doing both. So now insert your approach. What steps would you take? Eliot >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 > That at least provides a hint to the administrator that this = particular device is capable of serving in a particular role. >=20 > To make that declaration, the device must- > Form the declaration; > Find the MUD manager; and > Send it. >=20 > Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and = then place it in various spots. >=20 > Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: > Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose = device that has an app that is intended to be a controller? >=20 > If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the = declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the = device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting. = In this case we have two choices: >=20 > Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this = doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. > Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager. >=20 > I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a = mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an = internal part of the network infrastructure. >=20 > Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the = MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the = user infrastructure, which is a change. >=20 > One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful = endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be = exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may = not. >=20 > My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the = easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to = do the app version of this. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > Eliot >=20 --Apple-Mail=_25482C61-C038-4E40-91D7-B84DF2453752 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8


On 1 Jul 2019, at 10:23, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com] 
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 15:52
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring = something to be a controller in MUD
 
 


On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:
 
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Eliot Lear
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 17:48
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA= =BA: opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in = MUD
 
Hi everyone,
 
A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that = addresses one gap in MUD (there are several).  In a MUD file one = can say that one wants to access a controller in two ways: either = "my-controller=E2=80=9D meaning a controller that = services devices of a particular MUD URL or a =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that = services devices based on a particular class name of controller.
 
In either case, right now the administrator = has to manually know and populate information, to say - some device = 1.2.3.4 is a controller, either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or a class http://example.com/mudclass1.  That can be = laborious.  To assist, we are examining ways to have a controller = declare itself as a candidate controller.
 
[Qin]: Since = MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP extension, why = not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s declaration? So the = RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and controller, if my = understanding is correct.
I believe this = is network initiated solution, you might have client initiated solution, = but probably more complicated than network initiated = solution.
 
Can you = say a few more words?  I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite = following you.
[Qin]: What I am = suggesting is NMS preconfigures the MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s = declaration information, during DHCP process or DNS process, the = controller=E2=80=99s declaration can be returned
To the router or switch = between the thing and MUD manager or return to the thing, the router or = the thing can access controller through controller delclartion.
 
If the MUD = manager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP Discovery or DNS = process can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to preconfigure DHCP = server with MUD manager = information.

I apologize, but I=E2=80=99m not quite = following.  Let=E2=80=99s step through what I=E2=80=99m trying to = solve, and then let=E2=80=99s step through your flow.


Device sends a MUD URL X that points to a MUD file that says = to permit ip access to my-controller.

Now- how do we determine who = =E2=80=9Cmy-controller=E2=80=9D for MUD URL X is?
Ways to do that:
  • Ask the = administrator (pre-configuration)
  • Provide the = administrator hints
    • Controller says = who it can control (by MUD URLs, etc) or
    • Device says = which controllers (by MUD URL) are good candidates
  • Other

If it=E2=80=99s the controller, then we = can do a RESTful interface.  If it=E2=80=99s the device, we already = have a communication path.  Nothing stops us from doing = both.

So now = insert your approach.  What steps would you take?

Eliot



 
Eliot

 
 That at least provides = a hint to the administrator that this particular device is capable of = serving in a particular role.
 
To make that declaration, the device must-
  • Form the declaration;
  • Find = the MUD manager; and
  • Send = it.
 
Forming the declaration is easy: we can make = this a YANG grouping and then place it in various spots.
 
Finding the MUD manager depends on one = question:
  • Was the device built to be a controller or is = it a general purpose device that has an app that is intended to be a = controller?
 
If the device was built to be a controller, we = can simply cram the declaration into that devices own MUD file as an = extension.  If the device is a general purpose computer, things get = a bit more interesting.  In this case we have two choices:
 
  • Either create a MUD file that points somewhere = internally - this doesn=E2=80=99t = seem very plug and play.
  • Make = the declaration directly to the MUD manager.
 
I=E2=80=99m going to = focus on the latter for the moment.  It is easy enough to create a = RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a mechanism to = discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an internal part = of the network infrastructure.
 
Let me call this out plainly: letting the app = itself directly call the MUD manager requires that the MUD manager = itself become exposed to the user infrastructure, which is a change.
 
One possibility to address this is to = incorporate the new RESTful endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, = which may already be exposed.  But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI = be in play, which it may not.
 
My thinking is that we do this work in two = stages.  First handle the easy case, which is the MUD file = extension, and then figure out how to do the app version of this.
 
Thoughts?
 
Eliot
 

= --Apple-Mail=_25482C61-C038-4E40-91D7-B84DF2453752-- --Apple-Mail=_65C116C0-416E-4A03-B51C-849B9FB665AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRnI9wAKCRBugA9nE248 uPpBAKCPzpZc7YOsY4mEfTYwt4x+8laskwCguFbJt6H3gy2vM+ame+GgD7w0brc= =vwzW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_65C116C0-416E-4A03-B51C-849B9FB665AB-- From nobody Mon Jul 1 03:26:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97313120071; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8jKoFMqnHAER; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D53912001A; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=30539; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1561976761; x=1563186361; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=NBRXP+VQ30fvYdQytwg14cidCtRPNjYyHGjOwLtMUg8=; b=FKsePs1AQQbUBL3IkpdUYYP1WQrzDgEL6dVsfex2M8YQoVMgugKx7JGU VYwaTOw7zFoxXHjB4XUDi3Q9CYq8PQv8Xwhoj0JD0XdfKb7LSLEaOIsG8 OOZJD+8SPgKHWZkvZch/Y8YduPHQEnbKLyF6KAhA6gkfLptnUq/G4NVR2 M=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BVAAAB3xld/xbLJq1lGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBZ4EVgWyBBCEHhB2Ie4wImm0CBwEBAQkDAQEfEAEBhEACgyU?= =?us-ascii?q?4EwEDAQEEAQECAQVtijcMhUoBAQEDASNRBQULCQIOCiABBgMCAkYRBhMbgwc?= =?us-ascii?q?BgXsPCIgkm2uBMoVHhGkQgTSBUYolgX+BOB+CHi4+glaBWBI6glQygiYEjAo?= =?us-ascii?q?zh0BalVgJghiCH4ELgymNJxuDF4oUij6UEViBeoJXiBCDCQIEBgUCFYFnIYF?= =?us-ascii?q?YMxoIGxVlAYJBCTWCCoNqilU9AzCPCQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,439,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="13803106" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 01 Jul 2019 10:25:59 +0000 Received: from [10.61.163.11] ([10.61.163.11]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x61APvvq012158 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:25:57 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <230EB786-36AB-4E79-A6DD-20278E895763@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6AEA70B0-73A8-435F-A99B-2ED61626EACD"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 12:25:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.163.11, [10.61.163.11] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 10:26:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6AEA70B0-73A8-435F-A99B-2ED61626EACD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_30DD97C1-D18E-49F7-9BC5-F03D465FB26C" --Apple-Mail=_30DD97C1-D18E-49F7-9BC5-F03D465FB26C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Qin and others: Just to get the ball rolling, I=E2=80=99ve posted today = draft-lear-opsawg-mud-controller-candidates-00. I think this should help the discussion. Eliot > On 1 Jul 2019, at 10:23, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com = ] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 = 15:52 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org ; = mud@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a = controller in MUD >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu > wrote: >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org = ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Eliot Lear > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5= 17:48 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: opsawg@ietf.org ; = mud@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in = MUD >=20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses = one gap in MUD (there are several). In a MUD file one can say that one = wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D = meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a = =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that services devices based on a = particular class name of controller. >=20 > In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and = populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, = either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or = a class http://example.com/mudclass1 . = That can be laborious. To assist, we are examining ways to have a = controller declare itself as a candidate controller. >=20 > [Qin]: Since MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP = extension, why not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s = declaration? So the RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and = controller, if my understanding is correct. > I believe this is network initiated solution, you might have client = initiated solution, but probably more complicated than network initiated = solution. >=20 > Can you say a few more words? I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite = following you. > [Qin]: What I am suggesting is NMS preconfigures the MUD manager with = controller=E2=80=99s declaration information, during DHCP process or DNS = process, the controller=E2=80=99s declaration can be returned > To the router or switch between the thing and MUD manager or return to = the thing, the router or the thing can access controller through = controller delclartion. >=20 > If the MUD manager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP = Discovery or DNS process can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to = preconfigure DHCP server with MUD manager information. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 > That at least provides a hint to the administrator that this = particular device is capable of serving in a particular role. >=20 > To make that declaration, the device must- > Form the declaration; > Find the MUD manager; and > Send it. >=20 > Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and = then place it in various spots. >=20 > Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: > Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose = device that has an app that is intended to be a controller? >=20 > If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the = declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the = device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting. = In this case we have two choices: >=20 > Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this = doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. > Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager. >=20 > I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy = enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a = mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an = internal part of the network infrastructure. >=20 > Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the = MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the = user infrastructure, which is a change. >=20 > One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful = endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be = exposed. But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may = not. >=20 > My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the = easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to = do the app version of this. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > Eliot >=20 --Apple-Mail=_30DD97C1-D18E-49F7-9BC5-F03D465FB26C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Qin = and others:

Just to = get the ball rolling, I=E2=80=99ve posted today draft-lear-opsawg-mud-controller-candidates-00.

I = think this should help the discussion.

Eliot

On 1 Jul 2019, at 10:23, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com] 
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 15:52
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring = something to be a controller in MUD
 
 


On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:
 
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Eliot Lear
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 17:48
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA= =BA: opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in = MUD
 
Hi everyone,
 
A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that = addresses one gap in MUD (there are several).  In a MUD file one = can say that one wants to access a controller in two ways: either = "my-controller=E2=80=9D meaning a controller that = services devices of a particular MUD URL or a =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D class that = services devices based on a particular class name of controller.
 
In either case, right now the administrator = has to manually know and populate information, to say - some device = 1.2.3.4 is a controller, either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or a class http://example.com/mudclass1.  That can be = laborious.  To assist, we are examining ways to have a controller = declare itself as a candidate controller.
 
[Qin]: Since = MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP extension, why = not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s declaration? So the = RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and controller, if my = understanding is correct.
I believe this = is network initiated solution, you might have client initiated solution, = but probably more complicated than network initiated = solution.
 
Can you = say a few more words?  I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite = following you.
[Qin]: What I am = suggesting is NMS preconfigures the MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s = declaration information, during DHCP process or DNS process, the = controller=E2=80=99s declaration can be returned
To the router or switch = between the thing and MUD manager or return to the thing, the router or = the thing can access controller through controller delclartion.
 
If the MUD = manager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP Discovery or DNS = process can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to preconfigure DHCP = server with MUD manager information.
 
Eliot

 
 That at least provides = a hint to the administrator that this particular device is capable of = serving in a particular role.
 
To make that declaration, the device must-
  • Form the declaration;
  • Find = the MUD manager; and
  • Send = it.
 
Forming the declaration is easy: we can make = this a YANG grouping and then place it in various spots.
 
Finding the MUD manager depends on one = question:
  • Was the device built to be a controller or is = it a general purpose device that has an app that is intended to be a = controller?
 
If the device was built to be a controller, we = can simply cram the declaration into that devices own MUD file as an = extension.  If the device is a general purpose computer, things get = a bit more interesting.  In this case we have two choices:
 
  • Either create a MUD file that points somewhere = internally - this doesn=E2=80=99t = seem very plug and play.
  • Make = the declaration directly to the MUD manager.
 
I=E2=80=99m going to = focus on the latter for the moment.  It is easy enough to create a = RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a mechanism to = discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an internal part = of the network infrastructure.
 
Let me call this out plainly: letting the app = itself directly call the MUD manager requires that the MUD manager = itself become exposed to the user infrastructure, which is a change.
 
One possibility to address this is to = incorporate the new RESTful endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, = which may already be exposed.  But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI = be in play, which it may not.
 
My thinking is that we do this work in two = stages.  First handle the easy case, which is the MUD file = extension, and then figure out how to do the app version of this.
 
Thoughts?
 
Eliot
 

= --Apple-Mail=_30DD97C1-D18E-49F7-9BC5-F03D465FB26C-- --Apple-Mail=_6AEA70B0-73A8-435F-A99B-2ED61626EACD Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRnftAAKCRBugA9nE248 uKjlAJ96l9QJuzS7i7BdaBn2c0wFZb5+ZACgmPbVBNHw4vVoyPNeCy00iK3p2q0= =pcAS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6AEA70B0-73A8-435F-A99B-2ED61626EACD-- From nobody Mon Jul 1 11:51:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01B812016E; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:51:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQ5OW1y_3JgU; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F9C612016C; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id s7so31106803iob.11; Mon, 01 Jul 2019 11:51:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UpKSfeZjex6alpCiDT3fuS1vDZstpiy1I4FwgAKQZs4=; b=mU8tv3Z5nrii6LutaPVspjRCVL106LdDe90EWRBUcQs8xys/j6tyrTzRhp10Vkmyps GVJAtSrAW8SPab8Pz5KYzxwOmRxtJ2EPb8DJAerfiSSxYHlxVt1ECY3m6EeEQ+kflLjS rLd8GGNcpd1DjPlEDzy73zBWeQzpc89++62vpGBPyOb0P1Odn2womIBxJ96Fi/PIAoXf OoHUACZbP6FdGAaRiXD6hsIKCP832YF+PwoWqHZPea3J6VNLR1lXXJJ+NDT2dKZk7mNk zeqhbDEahi79zlq/stvhaWv1AjCXwmOFmEls5zH4+B1SJAC0WjUy/del5ZSCBt9CbOac rE2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UpKSfeZjex6alpCiDT3fuS1vDZstpiy1I4FwgAKQZs4=; b=jBDXqPxBLkedGOaCfPRFuSHm4XtOd2GyEJhmxGRShywntqUJLaF7UPe6sVd5gKiX7X 0kZSgcLYBjxcK+yFTAuGOlYJOm71pcjGwH4cvaN4Ji/GNjXlN5l2KBR/ky0A7C77hZSI pnlnVp1ES2iChrkemwn+/O+gP5njBIXWCFLWGOYLgMTQ4u8Upe5KsxE9nC1ZrUAPeBf+ Y/syr7C/nKgP+Igp/WUjYahwGHKiEfOMiqNXemyjCEXRBH9Nf4qVnorP3wZ6bHZ9ajMx G1ZSGDivqLbRIhQqFyNJTqqKq3gY61zUDB5EhpEzse9S3JhX4AEqjTyHIUEib6OKmaho p48A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUqm8udKN+x/u1210wnX1NmUm0L4NqbNeadr3NwM66AbKAfCh4D nG6SqTWSDBdowH7EW693m/ztM2G3/RbiHtFhpp0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzeR+4f7bavjlpAUKDG8THbyVj+wWyLb89WS0butQiF/ct/GiLfXR0dqDS0MnjjfYH4Fwc+D3tPmkCpmuIWMtw= X-Received: by 2002:a02:3308:: with SMTP id c8mr30073263jae.103.1562007103098; Mon, 01 Jul 2019 11:51:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <230EB786-36AB-4E79-A6DD-20278E895763@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <230EB786-36AB-4E79-A6DD-20278E895763@cisco.com> From: "M. Ranganathan" Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 14:51:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: Qin Wu , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000845370058ca31e5c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 18:51:47 -0000 --000000000000845370058ca31e5c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 6:26 AM Eliot Lear wrote: > Qin and others: > > Just to get the ball rolling, I=E2=80=99ve posted today > draft-lear-opsawg-mud-controller-candidates-00. > > I think this should help the discussion. > > Eliot > Hello Eliot, In a similar vein to the question Qin is asking, I have a question (we could discuss during the upcoming IETF side meeting if you don't have time to respond now). What is the essential difference between a device declaring itself to be a "controller" for another class and the situation where the device (being controlled) just uses the "model" abstraction in an ACE? If a device with mud URL https://toothbrush.nist.local/super1 is a controller for device coffemaker.nist.local, then simply declare an ACE in the coffeemaker MUD file, with a Model abstraction naming toothbursh.nist.local : { "name": "man0-todev", "matches": { "ietf-mud:mud": { "model": "https://toothbrush.nist.local/super1" }, "ipv4": { "protocol": 17 }, "udp": { "source-port": { "operator": "eq", "port": 8008 } } } (similarly in the "frdev") What is the difference (in behavior) between this and the new mechanism proposed in the draft? Thanks, Ranga > > On 1 Jul 2019, at 10:23, Qin Wu wrote: > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com ] > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5= 15:52 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Qin Wu > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller= in MUD > > > > > On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu wrote: > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org ] > *=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *Eliot Lear > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97= =A5 17:48 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in = MUD > > Hi everyone, > > A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses on= e > gap in MUD (there are several). In a MUD file one can say that one wants > to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller=E2=80=9D meanin= g a > controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a =E2=80=9Cco= ntroller=E2=80=9D > class that services devices based on a particular class name of > controller. > > In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and > populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, eithe= r > for MUD URL https://example.com/mud or a class > http://example.com/mudclass1. That can be laborious. To assist, we are > examining ways to have a controller declare itself as a candidate > controller. > > [Qin]: Since MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP > extension, why not configure MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s declar= ation? So > the RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and controller, if my > understanding is correct. > I believe this is network initiated solution, you might have client > initiated solution, but probably more complicated than network initiated > solution. > > > Can you say a few more words? I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite fol= lowing you. > [Qin]: What I am suggesting is NMS preconfigures the MUD manager with > controller=E2=80=99s declaration information, during DHCP process or DNS = process, > the controller=E2=80=99s declaration can be returned > To the router or switch between the thing and MUD manager or return to th= e > thing, the router or the thing can access controller through controller > delclartion. > > If the MUD manager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP > Discovery or DNS process can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to > preconfigure DHCP server with MUD manager information. > > Eliot > > > That at least provides a hint to the administrator that this particular > device is capable of serving in a particular role. > > To make that declaration, the device must- > > - Form the declaration; > - Find the MUD manager; and > - Send it. > > > Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and the= n > place it in various spots. > > Finding the MUD manager depends on one question: > > - Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose > device that has an app that is intended to be a controller? > > > If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the > declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension. If the devic= e > is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting. In thi= s > case we have two choices: > > > - Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this > doesn=E2=80=99t seem very plug and play. > - Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager. > > > I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment. It is easy enou= gh to > create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a mechanism = to > discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an internal part = of > the network infrastructure. > > Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the MU= D > manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the user > infrastructure, which is a change. > > One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful endpoin= t > into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be exposed. But th= at > requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may not. > > My thinking is that we do this work in two stages. First handle the easy > case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to do the > app version of this. > > Thoughts? > > Eliot > > > > > -- > Mud mailing list > Mud@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud > --=20 M. Ranganathan --000000000000845370058ca31e5c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable




On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 6:26 AM= Eliot Lear <lear@ci= sco.com> wrote:
Qin and others:

Just to get the ball rolling= , I=E2=80=99ve posted today=C2=A0draft-lear-opsawg-mud-controller-candidates-00.

I think this should help the discussion.

Eliot<= br>

Hello Eliot,

In a similar vein to the=20 question Qin is asking, I have a question (we could discuss during the=20 upcoming IETF side meeting if you don't have time to respond now).
=

What is the essential difference between a device declaring itself to be a=20 "controller" for another class and the situation where the device= (being controlled) just uses the "model" abstraction in an ACE?

If a device with mud URL=C2=A0=20 https://toothbrush.nist.lo= cal/super1 is a controller for device=20 coffemaker.nist.local, then simply declare an ACE in the coffeemaker MUD fi= le, with a Model=20 abstraction naming toothbursh.nist.local :

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 "name": "man0-todev",
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "matches": {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "ietf-mud:mud": {
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "model": "https://toothbrush.nist.local/super1<= /a>"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 },
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "ipv4": {=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "pr= otocol": 17
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= },
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "udp&qu= ot;: {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &q= uot;source-port": {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "operator": "eq",
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "port&q= uot;: 8008
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }






=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:= =C2=A0Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com]=C2=A0<= br>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:= =C2=A02019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5=C2=A015:52
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=C2=A0Qin Wu= <bill.wu@huawei.com>
= =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:=C2=A0opsawg@ietf.org;=C2=A0mud@ietf.org
=E4= =B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=C2=A0Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MU= D
= =C2=A0
=C2=A0


On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:<= /div>
=C2=A0
=
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:= =C2=A0OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf= .org]=C2=A0=E4=BB=A3= =E8=A1=A8=C2=A0Eliot Lear
=E5=8F= =91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:=C2=A02019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5=C2=A017:48
=E6=94= =B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=C2=A0opsawg@ietf.org;=C2= =A0mud@ietf.org=
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=C2=A0[= OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD
=C2=A0
Hi everyone,
=C2=A0
A few of us are just trying to put out an init= ial draft that addresses one gap in MUD (there are several).=C2=A0 In a MUD= file one can say that one wants to access a controller in two ways: either= "my-controller=E2=80=9D=C2=A0<= /span>meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or= a=C2=A0=E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D=C2=A0class that servi= ces devices based on a particular class name of controller.
=C2=A0
= In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and popula= te information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, either for MU= D URL=C2=A0https://example.com/mud=C2=A0or a class=C2= =A0htt= p://example.com/mudclass1.=C2=A0 That can be laborious.=C2=A0 To= assist, we are examining ways to have a controller declare itself as a can= didate controller.
=C2=A0
[Qin]: Since MUD in RFC8520= has already specify DNS extension and DHCP extension, why not configure MU= D manager with controller=E2=80=99s declaration? So the RESTFUL interface c= an be defined between NMS and controller, if my understanding is correct.
= I believe this is network initiated solution, you = might have client initiated solution, but probably more complicated than ne= twork initiated solution.<= /div>
= =C2=A0
Can you = say a few more words?=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m not sure I=E2=80=99m quite followin= g you.
[Qin]: What I am suggesting is NMS preconfig= ures the MUD manager with controller=E2=80=99s declaration information, dur= ing DHCP process or DNS process, the controller=E2=80=99s declaration can b= e returned
To = the router or switch between the thing and MUD manager or return to the thi= ng, the router or the thing can access controller through controller delcla= rtion.
= =C2=A0
If the MUD man= ager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP Discovery or DNS proces= s can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to preconfigure DHCP server wit= h MUD manager information.
=C2=A0
Eliot

=C2=A0
=C2=A0That at least provides a hin= t to the administrator that this particular device is capable of serving in= a particular role.
=C2=A0
To make that declaration, the device = must-
  • Form the declaration;
  • Find the MUD manager; and<= /span>
  • Send it.
=C2=A0=
Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping a= nd then place it in various spots.
=C2=A0
<= /div>
Finding the MUD manager= depends on one question:
  • Was the device built to be a controller or = is it a general purpose device that has an app that is intended to be a con= troller?
=C2=A0
If the device was built to be a controller, we can si= mply cram the declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension.= =C2=A0 If the device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more i= nteresting.=C2=A0 In this case we have two choices:
=C2=A0
  • Either c= reate a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this doesn=E2=80= =99t seem very plug and play.
  • Make the declaration dir= ectly to the MUD manager.
=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m going to focus on the latter for the moment.=C2=A0 It is easy enough = to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a mechanism= to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an internal par= t of the network infrastructure.
=C2=A0
Let me call this out plain= ly: letting the app itself directly call the MUD manager requires that the = MUD manager itself become exposed to the user infrastructure, which is a ch= ange.
=C2=A0
One possibility to address this is to incorporate the= new RESTful endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already= be exposed.=C2=A0 But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it = may not.
=C2=A0
My thinking is that we do this work in two stages= .=C2=A0 First handle the easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and th= en figure out how to do the app version of this.
=
=C2=A0
Thoughts?
=C2=A0
Eliot
=C2=A0
<= /div>

--
Mud mailing list
Mud@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud


--
M. = Ranganathan

<= /div>
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boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BD941nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 01:23:27 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BD941nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIEVsaW90Og0KU29ycnkgZm9yIGxhdGUsIHNlZSBteSByZXBseSBpbmxpbmUgYmVsb3cuDQoN CuWPkeS7tuS6ujogRWxpb3QgTGVhciBbbWFpbHRvOmxlYXJAY2lzY28uY29tXQ0K5Y+R6YCB5pe2 6Ze0OiAyMDE55bm0N+aciDHml6UgMTY6NDkNCuaUtuS7tuS6ujogUWluIFd1IDxiaWxsLnd1QGh1 YXdlaS5jb20+DQrmioTpgIE6IG9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgbXVkQGlldGYub3JnDQrkuLvpopg6 IFJlOiBbT1BTQVdHXSBEZWNsYXJpbmcgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRvIGJlIGEgY29udHJvbGxlciBpbiBN 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lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 02:44:48 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 09:42:21 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Eliot Lear CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD Thread-Index: AdUwdNms2CQ7NqnHSFy07TtU1rh0VQ== Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 01:42:20 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BD98Ankgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail 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(10.3.19.98) by dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 10:41:50 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 10:41:50 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "Steve Wood (swood1)" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-sun-opsawg-sdwan-service-model-03.txt Thread-Index: AdUwf3gkWnV6TYPnQkeyl29OW6i3fQ== Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 02:41:50 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] New Version Notification for draft-sun-opsawg-sdwan-service-model-03.txt X-BeenThere: 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2019 08:07:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Qin Wu , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: "M. Ranganathan" References: <230EB786-36AB-4E79-A6DD-20278E895763@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.244.239, [10.61.244.239] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 06:07:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E8DA1115-8274-43D2-AE9B-936DBED5F65D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9AF038A6-CDD0-482A-A20F-519512AB4E8D" --Apple-Mail=_9AF038A6-CDD0-482A-A20F-519512AB4E8D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Ranga, > On 1 Jul 2019, at 20:51, M. Ranganathan wrote: >=20 > What is the essential difference between a device declaring itself to = be a "controller" for another class and the situation where the device = (being controlled) just uses the "model" abstraction in an ACE? You could indeed do this with =E2=80=9Cmodel=E2=80=9D, --Apple-Mail=_9AF038A6-CDD0-482A-A20F-519512AB4E8D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Ranga,

On 1 Jul 2019, at 20:51, M. Ranganathan = <mranga@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the essential difference = between a device declaring itself to be a "controller" for another class = and the situation where the device (being controlled) just uses the = "model" abstraction in an ACE? 


You= could indeed do this with =E2=80=9Cmodel=E2=80=9D, 
= --Apple-Mail=_9AF038A6-CDD0-482A-A20F-519512AB4E8D-- --Apple-Mail=_E8DA1115-8274-43D2-AE9B-936DBED5F65D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRr0mwAKCRBugA9nE248 uEzIAJ941sJQ4y8+tb4frImgddSPdWOn0ACg23ZYrz+ur/oWUUwYH1YxPpxBOEQ= =NcJr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E8DA1115-8274-43D2-AE9B-936DBED5F65D-- From nobody Mon Jul 1 23:11:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945E41200A4; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 23:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zF-yme4YMO3m; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 23:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE0111200B3; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 23:10:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4013; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1562047858; x=1563257458; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=sl2T3sxJ82MVOAbNx7E72mp/3OIxFRJ67L4ugGjW/ZU=; b=IFk6zJiKB2Y+B4zI/366CqoU4h7GT5Qw4MSc5Gekapv/tbYADNqLPZBr odfXbYecTDWSA19LRFuW9buISNJujoqUua7BuZokwAOdO0kiKpe843sJh KCT5G0J81cMEpXmt9lJvC9/i135Zh88OclfgGPtxhuiHmG8DZ8OTcsJ1s k=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AUAABA9Bpd/xbLJq1mGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBVgEBAQEBAQsBAYETgj0hEiiEHIh7jAiHLoIdiSWHfQI?= =?us-ascii?q?HAQEBCQMBAS8BAYRAAoMnNwYOAQMBAQQBAQIBBW2KQ0IBEAGEdgEBAQECASN?= =?us-ascii?q?WBQsLBBQqAgIhNgYTgyIBgWoDDg+lGYEyhUeCRw2CFhCBNAGBUIolgX+BOB+?= =?us-ascii?q?CHi4+ghqFNDKCJgSMJIg0lRhACYIYgh+BDIxeg3IbjSuKQJZdinKDCQIEBgU?= =?us-ascii?q?CFYFmIoFYMxoIGxVlAYJBPpBJPQMwhTiJLgEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,442,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="13775770" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 02 Jul 2019 06:10:55 +0000 Received: from [10.61.244.239] ([10.61.244.239]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x626AsuO019248 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Jul 2019 06:10:55 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F73EB660-D21E-4395-B602-4A50B5DF6A0F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 08:10:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Qin Wu , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: "M. Ranganathan" References: <230EB786-36AB-4E79-A6DD-20278E895763@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.244.239, [10.61.244.239] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 06:11:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F73EB660-D21E-4395-B602-4A50B5DF6A0F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5FC2D4BD-8A03-40E3-954E-982BC5CFF986" --Apple-Mail=_5FC2D4BD-8A03-40E3-954E-982BC5CFF986 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Ranga, Sorry for the pre-mature send. > On 1 Jul 2019, at 20:51, M. Ranganathan wrote: >=20 > What is the essential difference between a device declaring itself to = be a "controller" for another class and the situation where the device = (being controlled) just uses the "model" abstraction in an ACE? >=20 You could indeed do this with =E2=80=9Cmodel=E2=80=9D. The reason I = hadn=E2=80=99t thought of that was because in my mind, same-manufacturer = and model were for NxN communications, and that it might be a hint to = the NMS to use appropriate scale mechanisms. But that=E2=80=99s not = actually in the text. I think, by the way, that there=E2=80=99s another reason to think about = doing this from the controller side: if the standards are open like we = like them to be, a device may not know who should be the controller for = a particular device or class. Eliot --Apple-Mail=_5FC2D4BD-8A03-40E3-954E-982BC5CFF986 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Ranga,

Sorry for the = pre-mature send.

On 1 Jul 2019, at 20:51, M. = Ranganathan <mranga@gmail.com> wrote:

What = is the essential difference between a device declaring itself to be a = "controller" for another class and the situation where the device (being = controlled) just uses the "model" abstraction in an ACE? 


You could indeed do this with = =E2=80=9Cmodel=E2=80=9D.  The reason I hadn=E2=80=99t thought of = that was because in my mind, same-manufacturer and model were for NxN = communications, and that it might be a hint to the NMS to use = appropriate scale mechanisms.  But that=E2=80=99s not actually in = the text.

I = think, by the way, that there=E2=80=99s another reason to think about = doing this from the controller side: if the standards are open like we = like them to be, a device may not know who should be the controller for = a particular device or class.

Eliot
= --Apple-Mail=_5FC2D4BD-8A03-40E3-954E-982BC5CFF986-- --Apple-Mail=_F73EB660-D21E-4395-B602-4A50B5DF6A0F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXRr1bQAKCRBugA9nE248 uHXOAJ9KR7LG6BnC15Z9RP3l8px4f5tj4gCeO9evervAJodAwZ/UH/ICyW4ZlsY= =9lGI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F73EB660-D21E-4395-B602-4A50B5DF6A0F-- From nobody Tue Jul 2 03:09:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B962E120052; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 03:09:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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Ranganathan" Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 13:21:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: Qin Wu , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007479be058cb5fdb7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 17:22:36 -0000 --0000000000007479be058cb5fdb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Eliot, On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 2:10 AM Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi Ranga, > > Sorry for the pre-mature send. > > On 1 Jul 2019, at 20:51, M. Ranganathan wrote: > > What is the essential difference between a device declaring itself to be = a > "controller" for another class and the situation where the device (being > controlled) just uses the "model" abstraction in an ACE? > > > You could indeed do this with =E2=80=9Cmodel=E2=80=9D. The reason I hadn= =E2=80=99t thought of > that was because in my mind, same-manufacturer and model were for NxN > communications, and that it might be a hint to the NMS to use appropriate > scale mechanisms. But that=E2=80=99s not actually in the text. > > I think, by the way, that there=E2=80=99s another reason to think about d= oing this > from the controller side: if the standards are open like we like them to > be, a device may not know who should be the controller for a particular > device or class. > > Yes I agree with your reasoning - especially the second part. I think some wording providing justification for this in the draft would be good (maybe even as an addendum to the MUD specification). Looking forward to further discussion on how applications can become controllers. Regards, Ranga > Eliot > --=20 M. Ranganathan --0000000000007479be058cb5fdb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Eliot,
On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 2:10 AM Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Ranga,
Sorry for the pre-mature send.

On 1 Jul 2019, at 20:51, M. Ranganathan <mranga@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the essential difference between a device declar= ing itself to be a "controller" for another class and the situati= on where the device (being controlled) just uses the "model" abst= raction in an ACE?=C2=A0


You could in= deed do this with =E2=80=9Cmodel=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 The reason I hadn=E2=80=99= t thought of that was because in my mind, same-manufacturer and model were = for NxN communications, and that it might be a hint to the NMS to use appro= priate scale mechanisms.=C2=A0 But that=E2=80=99s not actually in the text.=

I think, by the way, that there=E2=80=99s another= reason to think about doing this from the controller side: if the standard= s are open like we like them to be, a device may not know who should be the= controller for a particular device or class.


Yes I agree with your reasoning - especially = the second part. I think some wording providing justification for this in t= he draft would be good=C2=A0 (maybe even as an addendum to the MUD specific= ation).

Looking forward to further discussion= on how applications can become controllers.

R= egards, Ranga
Eliot


--
=
M. Ranganathan

--0000000000007479be058cb5fdb7-- From nobody Tue Jul 2 18:32:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEB412014B for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lY5bTPaAMzaa for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAE291200DE for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 57EE216AECA3017184E0 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 02:32:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 02:31:53 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.134]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:30:25 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Thread-Index: AdUlop1wW9QKsoHpQ5m56GurL70K3P//9TmA//NYyqCAGdsirP/18cbA Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 01:30:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7598FNKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] FW: IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 01:32:10 -0000 --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7598FNKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI From: Colin Doyle [mailto:cdoyle@juniper.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 11:54 PM To: Tianran Zhou ; Warren Kumari Cc: OpsAWG Chairs Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Please forgive me. I'm new to this process and require a bit of hand-holdin= g. If the question is whether or not I'm aware of any relevant IPR, I am no= t. C ___________________________________________ Colin Doyle Juniper Networks | Senior Systems Engineer C. 503.810.2129 | E. CDoyle@Juniper.net ________________________________ From: Tianran Zhou > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 12:31:58 AM To: Warren Kumari; Colin Doyle Cc: OpsAWG Chairs Subject: FW: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 Hi Colin, I did not receive your confirm on the IPR poll. Please check it before the deadline. Thanks, Tianran -----Original Message----- From: Warren Kumari [mailto:warren@kumari.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:15 PM To: Tianran Zhou > Cc: opsawg@ietf.org; OpsAWG Chairs > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:57 AM Tianran Zhou > wrote: > > Hi WG, > > Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04? I confirm that I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsa= wg-sdi Thanks for checking, W > > If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-wkumari-opsa= wg-sdi-04, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance wit= h IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to t= his email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aware= of any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage until= a response has been received from each author and contributor. > > If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG maili= ng list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that ha= s not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > Thank you for kind support. > > Regards, > Tianran & Joe > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailm= an_listinfo_opsawg&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzo= CI&r=3D-t54aycVhEAROiiA0cL1h6gQ_tnk-QBclxgQbGvIETU&m=3DMs0ZnFkrDREOFTeM7CIV= iJKKtOw7PkiHfA0vaIxsYvc&s=3D_fliZnc_HFp9xcyo5K-6MREwsva6ygK2JW9Ke9FpwvE&e= =3D -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in= the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr= et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7598FNKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

FYI

 

From: = Colin Doyle [mailto:cdoyle@juniper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 11:54 PM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; Warren Kumari <w= arren@kumari.net>
Cc: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04

 

Please forgive me. I'm new to this process and require a bit of hand-h= olding. If the question is whether or not I'm aware of any relevant IPR, I am not.

C

___________________________________________

Colin Doyle

Juniper Networks | Senior = Systems Engineer

C. 503.810.2129 | E.&= nbsp;CDoyle@Juniper.net

 

From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 12:31:58 AM
To: Warren Kumari; Colin Doyle
Cc: OpsAWG Chairs
Subject: FW: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04=

 

Hi C= olin,

I did not receive your confirm on the IPR poll.
Please check it before the deadline.

Thanks,
Tianran

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Kumari [mailto:warren@kum= ari.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:15 PM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@= huawei.com>
Cc: opsawg@ietf.org; OpsAWG Chairs &= lt;opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>=
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 2:57 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi WG,
>
> Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll.
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04?<= br>
I confirm that I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-wkumari-opsa= wg-sdi

Thanks for checking,
W

>
> If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-wkumari-o= psawg-sdi-04, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance = with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<= br> >
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond t= o this email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aw= are of any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage un= til a response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG ma= iling list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that= has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thank you for kind support.
>
> Regards,
> Tianran & Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> OPSAWG mailing list
> OPSAWG@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman= _listinfo_opsawg&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voD= TXcWzoCI&r=3D-t54aycVhEAROiiA0cL1h6gQ_tnk-QBclxgQbGvIETU&m=3DMs0ZnF= krDREOFTeM7CIViJKKtOw7PkiHfA0vaIxsYvc&s=3D_fliZnc_HFp9xcyo5K-6MREwsva6y= gK2JW9Ke9FpwvE&e=3D



--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in= the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr= et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<= br>    ---maf

--_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7598FNKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Wed Jul 3 04:55:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26CDF1207A8; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:54:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0bZqWf3CrDj5; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mandala.kddilabs.jp (mandala.kddilabs.jp [IPv6:2001:200:601:12::16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F9B120753; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mandala.kddilabs.jp [127.0.0.1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94656C1A3E5A; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:27 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kddi-research.jp Received: from mandala.kddilabs.jp ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mandala.kddilabs.jp [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9iBpOjm1W5yM; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from safeattach.localdomain (unknown [IPv6:2001:200:601:1a00:20c:29ff:fe79:2280]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D02FC1A3E59; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from [172.19.124.101] (dhcp101.west-4f.cn.kddilabs.jp [172.19.124.101]) by safeattach.localdomain with ESMTP id x63BsOk9017784; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:24 +0900 To: "Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netslices@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <156207423989.23780.17141938373911518614.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <936A6DF3-6AE8-4AD7-94C5-12AD68D9E0E4@nokia.com> From: Takuya Miyasaka Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:24 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <936A6DF3-6AE8-4AD7-94C5-12AD68D9E0E4@nokia.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------015A05FEC16E7D38B2F437EC" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [DMM] New Version Notification for draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 11:54:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------015A05FEC16E7D38B2F437EC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Reza, Thanks for sharing this draft. I'm curious about how to bind/associate 3GPP(RAN/Core) slice instance and Transport slice instance and section 5.2 of this draft describes as follows:       o In order to have the connectivity between RAN1 and UPF1, the RAN          and Core slices should be associated to Transport slice. This is          also a by-product of the Transport slice connectivity interface          when all allocated resources for access points (such as allocated          VLAN IDs, IP addresses etc) are conveyed to RAN and Core Slices.          This will be done by cordiantion between transport slice          controller and E2E network slice controller. As for this sentences, could you confirm if following procedures will be conducted between controllers in order to associate independent slice instances or not?  - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on transport slice creation to Transport Controller (interface 10 of Fig.2)  - Transport Controller creates transport slice instance and sends access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) to E2E Network Slice Controller  - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on access point creation/modification to RAN/Core Controller  - RAN/Core Controller create/modify access point on gNB/UPF respectively, which means gNB/UPF starts to attach adequate access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) on their user plane packet Thanks, Takuya Miyasaka KDDI Research On 2019/07/02 23:06, Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > Hi all, > > This is to inform you that the following new draft has been submitted > to ietf. > > The goal of this draft is to demonstrate the role of ietf for 5g > network slicing in area of transport slices. > > Your review and feedback would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Reza Rokui > > On 2019-07-02, 9:30 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > wrote: > >     A new version of I-D, draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Reza Rokui and posted to the > > IETF repository. > >     Name: draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice > > Revision: 00 > > Title:          5G Transport Slice Connectivity Interface > > Document date:  2019-07-02 > > Group:          Individual Submission > > Pages:          28 > >     URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt > >     Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice/ > >     Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00 > >     Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice > >     Abstract: > > The 5G Network slicing is an approach to provide separate independent > > E2E logical network from user equipment (UE) to applications where > > each network slice has different SLA requirements.  Each E2E network > > slice consists of multitude of RAN-slice, Core-slice and Transport- > > slices, each with its own controller.  To provide automation, > > assurance and optimization of the network slices, an E2E network > > slice controller is needed which interacts with controller in RAN, > > Core and Transport slices.  The interfaces between the E2E network > > slice controller and RAN and Core controllers are defined in various > > 3GPP technical specifications.  However, 3GPP has not defined the > > same interface for transport slices. > >        The aim of this document is to provide the clarification of this > > interface and to provide the information model of this interface for > > automation, monitoring and optimization of the transport slices. > >     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >     The IETF Secretariat > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --------------015A05FEC16E7D38B2F437EC Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Reza,

Thanks for sharing this draft. I'm curious about how to bind/associate 3GPP(RAN/Core) slice instance and Transport slice instance and section 5.2 of this draft describes as follows:

      o In order to have the connectivity between RAN1 and UPF1, the RAN
         and Core slices should be associated to Transport slice. This is
         also a by-product of the Transport slice connectivity interface
         when all allocated resources for access points (such as allocated
         VLAN IDs, IP addresses etc) are conveyed to RAN and Core Slices.
         This will be done by cordiantion between transport slice
         controller and E2E network slice controller.

As for this sentences, could you confirm if following procedures will be conducted between controllers in order to associate independent slice instances or not?
 - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on transport slice creation to Transport Controller (interface 10 of Fig.2)
 - Transport Controller creates transport slice instance and sends access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) to E2E Network Slice Controller
 - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on access point creation/modification to RAN/Core Controller
 - RAN/Core Controller create/modify access point on gNB/UPF respectively, which means gNB/UPF starts to attach adequate access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) on their user plane packet

Thanks,
Takuya Miyasaka
KDDI Research

On 2019/07/02 23:06, Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

Hi all,

 

This is to inform you that the following new draft has been submitted to ietf.

The goal of this draft is to demonstrate the role of ietf for 5g network slicing in area of transport slices.

 

Your review and feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Reza Rokui

 

 

 

On 2019-07-02, 9:30 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

 

   

    A new version of I-D, draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt

    has been successfully submitted by Reza Rokui and posted to the

    IETF repository.

   

    Name:           draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice

    Revision: 00

    Title:          5G Transport Slice Connectivity Interface

    Document date:  2019-07-02

    Group:          Individual Submission

    Pages:          28

    URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt

    Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice/

    Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00

    Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice

   

    

    Abstract:

       The 5G Network slicing is an approach to provide separate independent

       E2E logical network from user equipment (UE) to applications where

       each network slice has different SLA requirements.  Each E2E network

       slice consists of multitude of RAN-slice, Core-slice and Transport-

       slices, each with its own controller.  To provide automation,

       assurance and optimization of the network slices, an E2E network

       slice controller is needed which interacts with controller in RAN,

       Core and Transport slices.  The interfaces between the E2E network

       slice controller and RAN and Core controllers are defined in various

       3GPP technical specifications.  However, 3GPP has not defined the

       same interface for transport slices.

   

       The aim of this document is to provide the clarification of this

       interface and to provide the information model of this interface for

       automation, monitoring and optimization of the transport slices.

   

                                                                                      

    

    

    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission

    until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

   

    The IETF Secretariat

   

    


_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
--------------015A05FEC16E7D38B2F437EC-- From nobody Thu Jul 4 02:56:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76ECC1201D7; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 02:56:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HbcxudZiazvQ; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 02:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5E68120176; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 02:56:39 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Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 09:05:40 -0000 RGVhciBjaGFpcnMsDQoNCldlIGhhdmUgdXBkYXRlZCB0aGUgbGF0ZXN0IHZlcnNpb24gYmFzZWQg b24gdGhlIElFVEYxMDQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4NCmh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9k cmFmdC1zdW4tb3BzYXdnLXNkd2FuLXNlcnZpY2UtbW9kZWwtMDQNCg0KVGhlIG1ham9yIHVwZGF0 ZXMgYXJlOg0KMS4gVXBkYXRlIHRlcm1pbm9sb2d5IG1hcHBpbmcgYmV0d2VlbiBNRUYgU0QtV0FO IFNlcnZpY2UgQXR0cmlidXRlcyBhbmQgSUVURiBTRC1XQU4gbW9kZWwNCjIuIFVwZGF0ZSB0aGUg cmVmZXJlbmNlcyBmb3IgdGhlIE1FRiBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uDQozLiBIaWdobGlnaHQgQXBwbGlj YXRpb24gYmFzZWQgUG9saWN5IFNlcnZpY2UsIHN1Y2ggYXMgSW50ZXJuZXQgYnJlYWtvdXQsIG11 bHRpLVdBTiBwYXRoIHNlbGVjdGlvbiwgaW5jbHVkaW5nIEludGVybmV0IGFjY2VzcyBvciBkZWRp Y2F0ZWQgVlBOIGNvbm5lY3Rpb25zDQo0LiBBZGQgQXBwZW5kaXggMiB0byBleHBsYWluIHRoZSBk aWZmZXJlbmNlcyBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBSVEdXRyBPU0UgbW9kZWxzDQo1LiBQb2xpc2ggdGhlIGVu dGlyZSB0ZXh0DQoNCldlIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBkcmFmdHMgYXJlIHJlYWR5IGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlv 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From: Dave Thaler To: tom petch , Suresh Krishnan , int-area , 6man , dhcwg , V6 Ops List , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "softwires@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 Thread-Index: AQHVIUvM9WEXtmDvEkCRovcCdcQgcKa8iIaA Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 19:16:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <75825363-B4BA-4F94-A935-B87F474F06C9@kaloom.com> <019801d522ce$34bff3a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <019801d522ce$34bff3a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Owner=dthaler@ntdev.microsoft.com; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2019-07-05T19:17:02.2121879Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=General; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dthaler@ntdev.microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR21MB0834 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 19:17:17 -0000 --_000_BN6PR21MB0497AE6B319A4879D041AA81A3F50BN6PR21MB0497namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: dhcwg On Behalf Of tom petch Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 9:28 AM To: Suresh Krishnan ; int-area ; 6man= ; dhcwg ; V6 Ops List ; ops= awg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 Suresh The concern I have is that it muddies the waters further on the standing of= tunnels so while I think that its proposals for ifType per se are fine, I = would like it to make explicit that tunnels are out-of-scope at this time. Tunnels are certainly not out-of-scope. There's two existing registries (i= nterface types and tunnel types), and this draft documents existing registr= ation process, and some process clarifications to address points of process= confusion and ease process friction today. I have been trying to reconcile the workings of softwire, in creating a tun= nel YANG module, with the existing IANA structure and failing. I believe t= hat is because the current status of tunnels is unclear. Thus the softwire= I-D refers to a registry that does not exist Yes it does. The software I-D does not create any new registry. It only= creates another format for retrieving the contents of an existing registry= . Many registries are retrievable in multiple formats (XML, excel, txt, et= c.). This registry is no different. What I can do is add a paragraph explaining the use of multiple formats for= the interface type and tunnel type registries, to make it clear that each = format is not a separate registry, just like getting the TCP port registry = in XML vs excel is not two different registries. Dave (as such) although the URL that the softwire I-D does. I think the timing u= nfortunate in that IMHO the softwires I-D will get pressed ahead before thi= s work can complete, so quite what this I-D then says about tunnels will be= coloured by what then exists for tunnels. So this I-D should make clear what a tunnel is, when it is not an interface= , but otherwise declaring tunnels out-of-scope, for a future I-D to do a co= mparable job for tunnels, setting up a tunnel registry from which MIB modul= es, YANG modules and anything else can be derived (as long as the relevant = data is supplied - SMI needs integers, YANG does not, which I-Ds do not alw= ays recognise although the Designated Experts can take care of that). Finally, when I first encountered this I-D I asked on NETCONF and NETMOD WG= lists if anyone knew of it, where it was being worked on and got no reply = - which surprised me. I note that you have not copied them although they w= ere involved in making the interface type registry what it currently is whe= n creating the YANG module for interface types. I wonder if other WG have = an interest, CCAMP or TEAS perhaps. I agree that int-area is the WG best e= quipped to work on it and that it needs working on. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suresh Krishnan" > To: "int-area" >; "6man" >; "dhcwg" >; "V6 Ops List" >; >; > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:22 PM Hi all, I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides guidelines f= or definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType registries https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40= microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7c= d011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&sdata=3DHM5asXOFnSuzPaCR4k4kopqsI= HLLdnqZ7PDuu8hPJM4%3D&reserved=3D0 If you have any concerns either with the contents of the draft, or about me= AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/26. Thanks Suresh NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potential= ly interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) pleas= e let me know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fint-area&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40 > microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91a > b2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&sdata=3Dznz7EZ1q%2FwIQUJC > gYZTWfY2H4C7tN6qFhJubCVWxWzc%3D&reserved=3D0 > _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdhcwg&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft= .com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%= 7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&sdata=3DOJvbRDz%2FCIlVF3hWR30KCs0cRgi9Kmtn= YLHKbHSeJzc%3D&reserved=3D0 --_000_BN6PR21MB0497AE6B319A4879D041AA81A3F50BN6PR21MB0497namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

-----Original Message-= ----
From: dhcwg <dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tom petch
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 9:28 AM
To: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com>; int-area <int-area@ietf.o= rg>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; V6 Ops Li= st <v6ops@ietf.org>; opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

 

Suresh

 

The concern I have is = that it muddies the waters further on the standing of tunnels so while I th= ink that its proposals for ifType per se are fine, I would like it to make = explicit that tunnels are out-of-scope at this time.

 

Tunnels are certainly= not out-of-scope.  There’s two existing registries (interface t= ypes and tunnel types), and this draft documents existing registration proc= ess, and some process clarifications to address points of process confusion and ease process friction today.

 

 

I have been trying to = reconcile the workings of softwire, in creating a tunnel YANG module, with = the existing IANA structure and failing.  I believe that is because th= e current status of tunnels is unclear.  Thus the softwire I-D refers to a registry that does not exist<= /p>

 

Yes it does.   The software I-D does no= t create any new registry.   It only creates another format for r= etrieving the contents of an existing registry.  Many registries are r= etrievable in multiple formats (XML, excel, txt, etc.).   This registry is no different.

 

What I can do is add a paragraph explaining the u= se of multiple formats for the interface type and tunnel type registries, t= o make it clear that each format is not a separate registry, just like gett= ing the TCP port registry in XML vs excel is not two different registries.

 

Dave

 

(as such) although the= URL that the softwire I-D does. I think the timing unfortunate in that IMH= O the softwires I-D will get pressed ahead before this work can complete, s= o quite what this I-D then says about tunnels will be coloured by what then exists for tunnels.

 

So this I-D should mak= e clear what a tunnel is, when it is not an interface, but otherwise declar= ing tunnels out-of-scope, for a future I-D to do a comparable job for tunne= ls, setting up a tunnel registry from which MIB modules, YANG modules and anything else can be derived (as long = as the relevant data is supplied - SMI needs integers, YANG does not, which= I-Ds do not always recognise although the Designated Experts can take care= of that).

 

Finally, when I first = encountered this I-D I asked on NETCONF and NETMOD WG lists if anyone knew = of it, where it was being worked on and got no reply - which surprised me.&= nbsp; I note that you have not copied them although they were involved in making the interface type registry what it = currently is when creating the YANG module for interface types.  I won= der if other WG have an interest, CCAMP or TEAS perhaps.  I agree that= int-area is the WG best equipped to work on it and that it needs working on.

 

Tom Petch

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Suresh Krishnan" <Suresh@kaloom.com>

To: "int-area" <int-= area@ietf.org>; "6man" <ipv6@ietf.or= g>; "dhcwg"

<dhcwg@ietf.org>; &= quot;V6 Ops List" <v6ops@ietf.org>; <opsawg@ietf.org>; <sof= twires@ietf.org>

Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:22 PM=

 

Hi all,

  I would like to AD sponsor the following d= raft that provides guidelines for definition of new interface types in the = IANA IfType registries

 

https:/= /nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org= %2Fhtml%2Fdraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40mic= rosoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd01= 1db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&amp;sdata=3DHM5asXOFnSuzPaCR4k4kopqs= IHLLdnqZ7PDuu8hPJM4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

 

If you have any concerns either with the contents= of the draft, or about me AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/= 06/26.

 

Thanks

Suresh

 

NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I = thought could be potentially interested in this work. If you think I have m= issed out some WG(s) please let me know.

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------= -----------------------

--------

 

 

> ____________________________________________= ___

> Int-area mailing list

> Int-area@ietf.org=

> https://nam06.safelin= ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.

> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fint-area&= ;amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40

> microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e5= 5a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91a

> b2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&a= mp;amp;sdata=3Dznz7EZ1q%2FwIQUJC

> gYZTWfY2H4C7tN6qFhJubCVWxWzc%3D&amp;rese= rved=3D0

> 

 

_______________________________________________

dhcwg mailing list

dhcwg@ietf.org=

https://nam06.= safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailma= n%2Flistinfo%2Fdhcwg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbd9= 080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C= 636961265202763707&amp;sdata=3DOJvbRDz%2FCIlVF3hWR30KCs0cRgi9KmtnYLHKbH= SeJzc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-wkumari-opsawg-sdi-04 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 07:52:37 -0000 SGkgV0csDQpOb3cgd2UgY29uY2x1ZGUgdGhlIHBvbGwgYW5kIGFkb3B0IHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQg YXMgV0cgZHJhZnQuDQoNCkF1dGhvcnMsDQpQbGVhc2UgcmVwdWJsaXNoIGRyYWZ0LXdrdW1hcmkt b3BzYXdnLXNkaS0wNCBhcyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLSBvcHNhd2ctc2RpLTAwIHdpdGggb25seSB0aGUg ZGF0ZSBhbmQgZmlsZSBuYW1lIGNoYW5nZWQuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNClRpYW5yYW4gYW5kIEpvZQ0K DQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7IyzogT1BTQVdHIFttYWlsdG86b3BzYXdnLWJvdW5j ZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gVGlhbnJhbiBaaG91DQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTqNtTCMTjI1SAx NDozOQ0KytW8/sjLOiBvcHNhd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCrOty806IE9wc0FXRyBDaGFpcnMgPG9wc2F3 Zy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQrW98ziOiBbT1BTQVdHXSBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBwb2xsIGZvciBk cmFmdC13a3VtYXJpLW9wc2F3Zy1zZGktMDQNCg0KSGkgV0csDQoNClRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2Fz IHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiBQcmFndWUsIGFuZCBnb3QgZ29vZCBmZWVkYmFjay4gVGhlIGF1dGhvcnMg aGF2ZSBhZGRyZXNzZWQgYWxsIHRoZSBjb21tZW50cy4NCmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LXdrdW1hcmktb3BzYXdnLXNkaS8NCg0KVGhlIGNoYWlycyB0aGluayB0 aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uYWwgZHJhZnQgaXMgZWFzeSB0byBiZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRlZCwgYW5kIGdv dCBnb29kIHN1cHBvcnQuDQoNClRoaXMgZW1haWwgc3RhcnRzIGEgdHdvIHdlZWtzIHBvbGwgZm9y IGFkb3B0aW9uLiANCklmIHlvdSBzdXBwb3J0IGFkb3B0aW5nIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgcGxlYXNl IHNheSBzbywgYW5kIHBsZWFzZSBnaXZlIGFuIGluZGljYXRpb24gb2Ygd2h5IHlvdSB0aGluayBp dCBpcyBpbXBvcnRhbnQuIEFsc28gcGxlYXNlIHNheSBpZiB5b3Ugd2lsbCBiZSB3aWxsaW5nIHRv IHJldmlldyBhbmQgaGVscCB0aGUgZHJhZnQuDQpJZiB5b3UgZG8gbm90IHN1cHBvcnQgYWRvcHRp bmcgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBhcyBhIHN0YXJ0aW5nIHBvaW50IGZvciB3b3JrIG9uIHRoaXMgdG9w aWMsIHBsZWFzZSBzYXkgd2h5Lg0KVGhpcyBwb2xsIHdpbGwgcnVuIHVudGlsIDJuZCBKdWx5Lg0K DQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KVGlhbnJhbiAmIEpvZQ0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KT1BTQVdHIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KT1BTQVdHQGlldGYub3Jn DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29wc2F3Zw0K From nobody Sun Jul 7 00:59:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F681200E7; 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Sun, 7 Jul 2019 08:59:03 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.134]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 15:58:58 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU0mY0HwLESRG3CQh28DItDm66IJA== Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2019 07:58:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.187.222] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD17NKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 07:59:08 -0000 --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD17NKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi WG, This document was presented in Prague. The authors have addressed all the c= omments and believe it's ready for further working group discussion. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give an ind= ication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you will be wi= lling to review and help the draft. If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for work o= n this topic, please say why. This poll will run until 22nd July. Regards, Tianran & Joe --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD17NKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi WG,

 

This document was presented = in Prague. The authors have addressed all the comments and believe it’= s ready for further working group discussion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

This email starts a two week= s poll for adoption.

If you support adopting this= document please say so, and please give an indication of why you think it = is important. Also please say if you will be willing to review and help the= draft.

If you do not support adopti= ng this document as a starting point for work on this topic, please say why= .

This poll will run until 22n= d July.

 

Regards,

Tianran & Joe=

 

--_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD17NKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Sun Jul 7 01:03:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48C11200E7; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 01:03:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X8Zn3-pdbG4i; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 01:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DB8612002E; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 01:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3D5A852A1F9CD95A6E87; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 09:03:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 09:03:39 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.134]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 16:03:34 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU0mi1gzc75wj5ETg2dZHHtVWW+MA== Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2019 08:03:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.187.222] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD31NKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 08:03:45 -0000 --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD31NKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi WG, Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02? If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-zheng-opsawg-t= acacs-yang-02, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance= with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to thi= s email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aware o= f any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage until a= response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG mailing= list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that has = not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thank you for kind support. Regards, Tianran & Joe --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD31NKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi WG,

 

Accompany with the adoption = poll, this mail starts the IPR poll.

 

Are you aware of any IPR tha= t applies to draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02?

 

If you own or are aware of a= ny IPR that applies to the draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02, please clarif= y whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 

If you are listed as a docum= ent author or contributor please respond to this email in OPSAWG mailing li= st regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. The docu= ment will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor.<= /o:p>

 

If you are not listed as an = author or contributor but are on OPSAWG mailing list, then please explicitl= y respond if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in co= nformance with IETF rules.

 

Thank you for kind support.<= o:p>

 

Regards,

Tianran & Joe=

 

--_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7AD31NKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Sun Jul 7 18:08:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D17D1200E3; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:08:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6yh4nc_fvFgL; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mandala.kddilabs.jp (mandala.kddilabs.jp [IPv6:2001:200:601:12::16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3E31200D5; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mandala.kddilabs.jp [127.0.0.1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AD0C2EE9EF; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 10:08:03 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kddi-research.jp Received: from mandala.kddilabs.jp ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mandala.kddilabs.jp [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vZnADDI7JAWM; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 10:08:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from safeattach.localdomain (unknown [IPv6:2001:200:601:1a00:20c:29ff:fe79:2280]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC49C2EE9E0; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 10:08:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from [172.19.124.101] (dhcp101.west-4f.cn.kddilabs.jp [172.19.124.101]) by safeattach.localdomain with ESMTP id x6817xHF002409; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 10:07:59 +0900 To: "Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netslices@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <156207423989.23780.17141938373911518614.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <936A6DF3-6AE8-4AD7-94C5-12AD68D9E0E4@nokia.com> <7ED7381D-AA8B-4C31-AC75-939999730B8F@nokia.com> From: Takuya Miyasaka Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 10:07:59 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7ED7381D-AA8B-4C31-AC75-939999730B8F@nokia.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6BCC56147CAE2BCAD99BF45B" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [DMM] New Version Notification for draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 01:08:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6BCC56147CAE2BCAD99BF45B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Reza, Thanks for your response and please see my comments below with [Taku]. Thanks, Takuya On 2019/07/04 23:51, Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > Hi Takuya, > > Very good question. The response is inline. > > Reza > > *From: *Takuya Miyasaka > *Date: *Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 7:54 AM > *To: *Reza Rokui , "netslices@ietf.org" > , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , > "opsawg@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" , > "dmm@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [DMM] New Version Notification for > draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt > > Hi Reza, > > Thanks for sharing this draft. I'm curious about how to bind/associate > 3GPP(RAN/Core) slice instance and Transport slice instance and section > 5.2 of this draft describes as follows: > >       o In order to have the connectivity between RAN1 and UPF1, the RAN >          and Core slices should be associated to Transport slice. This is >          also a by-product of the Transport slice connectivity interface >          when all allocated resources for access points (such as allocated >          VLAN IDs, IP addresses etc) are conveyed to RAN and Core Slices. >          This will be done by cordiantion between transport slice >          controller and E2E network slice controller. > > As for this sentences, could you confirm if following procedures will > be conducted between controllers in order to associate independent > slice instances or not? >  - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on transport slice > creation to Transport Controller (interface 10 of Fig.2) >  - Transport Controller creates transport slice instance and sends > access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) to E2E Network Slice Controller >  - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on access point > creation/modification to RAN/Core Controller >  - RAN/Core Controller create/modify access point on gNB/UPF > respectively, which means gNB/UPF starts to attach adequate access > point information(e.g. VLAN ID) on their user plane packet > > [Reza] The above procedure is correct but this is one way to implement > the binding (aka association) between RAN-Transport slices and > Core-Transport slices. > [Taku] OK. If such kinds of procedures are taken at Core/RAN Controller, it might be better to describe such procedures in Section3.           We also have to check if these access point information can be conveyed at the 3GPP defined interface between E2E Controller and Core/RAN Controller. > There are other ways to implement the binding. For example, the > transport slice controller can populate the following two tables > dynamically during the transport slice creation, modification or > deletion and expose access to this table using open APIs. Then, the > RAN/Core network functions or RAN/Core slice controllers can access > these APIs to program the VLAN/IP/Labels. > > * RAN-Transport mapping table: Which maps the RAN VLAN/IP > address/MPLS Labels etc to network slice > * Core-Transport mapping table: Which maps the Core VLAN/IP > address/MPLS Labels etc to network slice > [Taku] That sounds good. > * > > Thanks, > Takuya Miyasaka > KDDI Research > > On 2019/07/02 23:06, Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > Hi all, > > This is to inform you that the following new draft has been > submitted to ietf. > > The goal of this draft is to demonstrate the role of ietf for 5g > network slicing in area of transport slices. > > Your review and feedback would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Reza Rokui > > On 2019-07-02, 9:30 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > > wrote: > >     A new version of I-D, draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Reza Rokui and posted to the > > IETF repository. > >     Name: draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice > > Revision: 00 > > Title:          5G Transport Slice Connectivity Interface > > Document date:  2019-07-02 > > Group:          Individual Submission > > Pages:          28 > >     URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt > >     Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice/ > >     Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00 > >     Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice > >     Abstract: > > The 5G Network slicing is an approach to provide separate independent > > E2E logical network from user equipment (UE) to applications where > > each network slice has different SLA requirements.  Each E2E network > > slice consists of multitude of RAN-slice, Core-slice and Transport- > > slices, each with its own controller.  To provide automation, > > assurance and optimization of the network slices, an E2E network > > slice controller is needed which interacts with controller in RAN, > > Core and Transport slices.  The interfaces between the E2E network > > slice controller and RAN and Core controllers are defined in various > > 3GPP technical specifications.  However, 3GPP has not defined the > > same interface for transport slices. > >        The aim of this document is to provide the clarification of > this > > interface and to provide the information model of this interface for > > automation, monitoring and optimization of the transport slices. > >     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time > of submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >     The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --------------6BCC56147CAE2BCAD99BF45B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Reza,

Thanks for your response and please see my comments below with [Taku].

Thanks,
Takuya

On 2019/07/04 23:51, Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

Hi Takuya,

Very good question. The response is inline.

 

Reza

 

 

From: Takuya Miyasaka <ta-miyasaka@kddi-research.jp>
Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 7:54 AM
To: Reza Rokui <reza.rokui@nokia.com>, "netslices@ietf.org" <netslices@ietf.org>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] New Version Notification for draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt

 

Hi Reza,

Thanks for sharing this draft. I'm curious about how to bind/associate 3GPP(RAN/Core) slice instance and Transport slice instance and section 5.2 of this draft describes as follows:

      o In order to have the connectivity between RAN1 and UPF1, the RAN
         and Core slices should be associated to Transport slice. This is
         also a by-product of the Transport slice connectivity interface
         when all allocated resources for access points (such as allocated
         VLAN IDs, IP addresses etc) are conveyed to RAN and Core Slices.
         This will be done by cordiantion between transport slice
         controller and E2E network slice controller.

As for this sentences, could you confirm if following procedures will be conducted between controllers in order to associate independent slice instances or not?
 - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on transport slice creation to Transport Controller (interface 10 of Fig.2)
 - Transport Controller creates transport slice instance and sends access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) to E2E Network Slice Controller
 - E2E Network Slice Controller sends a request on access point creation/modification to RAN/Core Controller
 - RAN/Core Controller create/modify access point on gNB/UPF respectively, which means gNB/UPF starts to attach adequate access point information(e.g. VLAN ID) on their user plane packet

[Reza] The above procedure is correct but this is one way to implement the binding (aka association) between RAN-Transport slices and Core-Transport slices.

[Taku] OK. If such kinds of procedures are taken at Core/RAN Controller, it might be better to describe such procedures in Section3.
          We also have to check if these access point information can be conveyed at the 3GPP defined interface between E2E Controller and Core/RAN Controller.

There are other ways to implement the binding. For example, the transport slice controller can populate the following two tables dynamically during the transport slice creation, modification or deletion and expose access to this table using open APIs. Then, the RAN/Core network functions or RAN/Core slice controllers can access these APIs to program the VLAN/IP/Labels.

  • RAN-Transport mapping table: Which maps the RAN VLAN/IP address/MPLS Labels etc to network slice
  • Core-Transport mapping table: Which maps the Core VLAN/IP address/MPLS Labels etc to network slice

[Taku] That sounds good.

 

Thanks,
Takuya Miyasaka
KDDI Research

On 2019/07/02 23:06, Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

Hi all,

 

This is to inform you that the following new draft has been submitted to ietf.

The goal of this draft is to demonstrate the role of ietf for 5g network slicing in area of transport slices.

 

Your review and feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Reza Rokui

 

 

 

On 2019-07-02, 9:30 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

 

   

    A new version of I-D, draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt

    has been successfully submitted by Reza Rokui and posted to the

    IETF repository.

   

    Name:           draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice

    Revision: 00

    Title:          5G Transport Slice Connectivity Interface

    Document date:  2019-07-02

    Group:          Individual Submission

    Pages:          28

    URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt

    Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice/

    Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00

    Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice

   

    

    Abstract:

       The 5G Network slicing is an approach to provide separate independent

       E2E logical network from user equipment (UE) to applications where

       each network slice has different SLA requirements.  Each E2E network

       slice consists of multitude of RAN-slice, Core-slice and Transport-

       slices, each with its own controller.  To provide automation,

       assurance and optimization of the network slices, an E2E network

       slice controller is needed which interacts with controller in RAN,

       Core and Transport slices.  The interfaces between the E2E network

       slice controller and RAN and Core controllers are defined in various

       3GPP technical specifications.  However, 3GPP has not defined the

       same interface for transport slices.

   

       The aim of this document is to provide the clarification of this

       interface and to provide the information model of this interface for

       automation, monitoring and optimization of the transport slices.

   

                                                                                      

    

    

    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission

    until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

   

    The IETF Secretariat

   

    



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--------------6BCC56147CAE2BCAD99BF45B-- From nobody Sun Jul 7 23:55:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9239A120113; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 23:55:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7ZoDgSQWPyi; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 23:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 628F212010D; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 23:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 782F0BDCDFE91BE95E98; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:55:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.97) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:55:00 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:54:58 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:54:58 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU1LM+PODV7jR08RpSKm4PVcLBgzw== Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:54:58 +0000 Message-ID: <66b7e75b650c456f9ece44503b9cc8df@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_66b7e75b650c456f9ece44503b9cc8dfhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 06:55:06 -0000 --_000_66b7e75b650c456f9ece44503b9cc8dfhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QXMgYSBjby1hdXRob3IsIEkgYW0gbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3aXRo IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkJvDQoNCreivP7IyzogT1BTQVdHIFttYWlsdG86b3Bz YXdnLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gVGlhbnJhbiBaaG91DQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTq N9TCN8jVIDE2OjA0DQrK1bz+yMs6IG9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZw0Ks63LzTogT3BzQVdHIENoYWly cyA8b3BzYXdnLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCtb3zOI6IFtPUFNBV0ddIElQUiBwb2xsIG9uIGRy YWZ0LXpoZW5nLW9wc2F3Zy10YWNhY3MteWFuZy0wMg0KDQoNCkhpIFdHLA0KDQoNCg0KQWNjb21w YW55IHdpdGggdGhlIGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwsIHRoaXMgbWFpbCBzdGFydHMgdGhlIElQUiBwb2xs Lg0KDQoNCg0KQXJlIHlvdSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byBkcmFmdC16 aGVuZy1vcHNhd2ctdGFjYWNzLXlhbmctMDI/DQoNCg0KDQpJZiB5b3Ugb3duIG9yIGFyZSBhd2Fy ZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGUgZHJhZnQtemhlbmctb3BzYXdnLXRhY2Fj cy15YW5nLTAyLCBwbGVhc2UgY2xhcmlmeSB3aGV0aGVyIHRoaXMgSVBSIGJlZW4gZGlzY2xvc2Vk IGluIGNvbXBsaWFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJRVRGIElQUiBydWxlcyAoc2VlIFJGQ3MgMzk3OSwgNDg3OSwg MzY2OSBhbmQgNTM3OCBmb3IgbW9yZSBkZXRhaWxzKS4NCg0KDQoNCklmIHlvdSBhcmUgbGlzdGVk IGFzIGEgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXV0aG9yIG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yIHBsZWFzZSByZXNwb25kIHRvIHRo aXMgZW1haWwgaW4gT1BTQVdHIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCByZWdhcmRsZXNzIG9mIHdoZXRoZXIgb3Ig bm90IHlvdSBhcmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IHJlbGV2YW50IElQUi4gVGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwg bm90IGFkdmFuY2UgdG8gdGhlIG5leHQgc3RhZ2UgdW50aWwgYSByZXNwb25zZSBoYXMgYmVlbiBy ZWNlaXZlZCBmcm9tIGVhY2ggYXV0aG9yIGFuZCBjb250cmlidXRvci4NCg0KDQoNCklmIHlvdSBh cmUgbm90IGxpc3RlZCBhcyBhbiBhdXRob3Igb3IgY29udHJpYnV0b3IgYnV0IGFyZSBvbiBPUFNB V0cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LCB0aGVuIHBsZWFzZSBleHBsaWNpdGx5IHJlc3BvbmQgaWYgeW91IGFy ZSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgaGFzIG5vdCB5ZXQgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQgaW4gY29u Zm9ybWFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJRVRGIHJ1bGVzLg0KDQoNCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciBraW5kIHN1cHBv cnQuDQoNCg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpUaWFucmFuICYgSm9lDQoNCg== --_000_66b7e75b650c456f9ece44503b9cc8dfhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As a = co-author, I am not aware of any IPR associated with this draft.=

=  

Thank= s,

Bo

=  

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB= : OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1= =ED Tianran Zhou
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C27=C8=D5 16:04
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: opsawg@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-c= hairs@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft= -zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 =

Hi WG,

 

Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail start= s the IPR poll.

 

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-zh= eng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02?

 

If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies t= o the draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02, please clarify whether this IPR be= en disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 a= nd 5378 for more details).

 

If you are listed as a document author or contrib= utor please respond to this email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whet= her or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. The document will not advance= to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor.

 

If you are not listed as an author or contributor= but are on OPSAWG mailing list, then please explicitly respond if you are = aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF r= ules.

 

Thank you for kind support.

 

Regards,

Tianran & Joe

 

--_000_66b7e75b650c456f9ece44503b9cc8dfhuaweicom_-- From nobody Sun Jul 7 23:55:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B91120099; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 23:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3TyfXgOxGLn; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 23:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91880120121; Sun, 7 Jul 2019 23:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1D48059C3DB17E706690; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:55:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.98) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:55:10 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:55:08 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:55:08 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU1LKZH85thC2+ASsefNCPWYq+zXw== Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:55:08 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e26e01670b0f41b5a1c533696773bb2chuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 06:55:15 -0000 --_000_e26e01670b0f41b5a1c533696773bb2chuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U3VwcG9ydCBhcyBhIGNvLWF1dGhvci4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KQm8NCg0Kt6K8/sjLOiBPUFNBV0cg W21haWx0bzpvcHNhd2ctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBUaWFucmFuIFpob3UNCreiy83K sbzkOiAyMDE5xOo31MI3yNUgMTU6NTkNCsrVvP7Iyzogb3BzYXdnQGlldGYub3JnDQqzrcvNOiBP cHNBV0cgQ2hhaXJzIDxvcHNhd2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPg0K1vfM4jogW09QU0FXR10gV0cg YWRvcHRpb24gcG9sbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtemhlbmctb3BzYXdnLXRhY2Fjcy15YW5nLTAyDQoNCg0K SGkgV0csDQoNCg0KDQpUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHdhcyBwcmVzZW50ZWQgaW4gUHJhZ3VlLiBUaGUg YXV0aG9ycyBoYXZlIGFkZHJlc3NlZCBhbGwgdGhlIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFuZCBiZWxpZXZlIGl0oa9z IHJlYWR5IGZvciBmdXJ0aGVyIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4NCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly90 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW9wc2F3Zy10YWNhY3MteWFuZy0wMg0KDQoN Cg0KDQoNClRoaXMgZW1haWwgc3RhcnRzIGEgdHdvIHdlZWtzIHBvbGwgZm9yIGFkb3B0aW9uLg0K DQpJZiB5b3Ugc3VwcG9ydCBhZG9wdGluZyB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHBsZWFzZSBzYXkgc28sIGFu ZCBwbGVhc2UgZ2l2ZSBhbiBpbmRpY2F0aW9uIG9mIHdoeSB5b3UgdGhpbmsgaXQgaXMgaW1wb3J0 YW50LiBBbHNvIHBsZWFzZSBzYXkgaWYgeW91IHdpbGwgYmUgd2lsbGluZyB0byByZXZpZXcgYW5k IGhlbHAgdGhlIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgZG8gbm90IHN1cHBvcnQgYWRvcHRpbmcgdGhpcyBk b2N1bWVudCBhcyBhIHN0YXJ0aW5nIHBvaW50IGZvciB3b3JrIG9uIHRoaXMgdG9waWMsIHBsZWFz ZSBzYXkgd2h5Li4NCg0KVGhpcyBwb2xsIHdpbGwgcnVuIHVudGlsIDIybmQgSnVseS4NCg0KDQoN ClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNClRpYW5yYW4gJiBKb2UNCg0K --_000_e26e01670b0f41b5a1c533696773bb2chuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Suppo= rt as a co-author.

=  

Thank= s,

Bo

=  

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB= : OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1= =ED Tianran Zhou
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C27=C8=D5 15:59
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: opsawg@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-c= hairs@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll = for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 =

Hi WG,

 

This document was presented in Prague. The author= s have addressed all the comments and believe it=A1=AFs ready for further working group dis= cussion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tac= acs-yang-02

 

 

This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. =

If you support adopting this document please say = so, and please give an indication of why you think it is important. Also pl= ease say if you will be willing to review and help the draft.

If you do not support adopting this document as a= starting point for work on this topic, please say why..

This poll will run until 22nd July.

 

Regards,

Tianran & Joe

 

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d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="14021075" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 08 Jul 2019 12:12:42 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp6619.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp6619.cisco.com [10.61.89.218]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x68CCf4V010119 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Jul 2019 12:12:42 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <3AF6CDDC-7C4A-4EF6-8B33-A767AA475F76@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DADC0421-A2D7-4425-953B-9CBF5801974D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:12:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs To: Tianran Zhou References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.89.218, ams3-vpn-dhcp6619.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 12:12:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DADC0421-A2D7-4425-953B-9CBF5801974D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A4122BA9-0E11-4FD3-AE2D-96BC0564FCB2" --Apple-Mail=_A4122BA9-0E11-4FD3-AE2D-96BC0564FCB2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tianran, I have two concerns about this draft. First is the intended status of = this document. It currently calls out draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs as an = informational reference. I think the question here is really whether = this draft should also be informational. As a practical matter you = really do need to have implemented the other draft for this one to be = implemented. And that means that really it should be a normative = reference. But it would be a downref. To address this, I suggest just = making this document an informational draft, rather than targeting for = standards, and make the reference normative. In addition, I have another question. Is there interest or appetite for = creating a standardized and more version of T+? If so, is the timing of = a standardized YANG model appropriate? Eliot > On 7 Jul 2019, at 09:58, Tianran Zhou wrote: >=20 > Hi WG, >=20 > This document was presented in Prague. The authors have addressed all = the comments and believe it=E2=80=99s ready for further working group = discussion. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 = >=20 >=20 > This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. > If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give = an indication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you = will be willing to review and help the draft. > If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for = work on this topic, please say why.. > This poll will run until 22nd July. >=20 > Regards, > Tianran & Joe >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg = --Apple-Mail=_A4122BA9-0E11-4FD3-AE2D-96BC0564FCB2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Tianran,

I have two = concerns about this draft.  First is the intended status of this = document.  It currently calls out draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs as an = informational reference.  I think the question here is really = whether this draft should also be informational.  As a practical = matter you really do need to have implemented the other draft for this = one to be implemented.  And that means that really it should be a = normative reference.  But it would be a downref.  To address = this, I suggest just making this document an informational draft, rather = than targeting for standards, and make the reference = normative.

In = addition, I have another question.  Is there interest or appetite = for creating a standardized and more version of T+?  If so, is the = timing of a standardized YANG model appropriate?

Eliot


On 7 Jul 2019, at 09:58, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi WG,
 
This document was presented = in Prague. The authors have addressed all the comments and believe = it=E2=80=99s = ready for further working group discussion.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02
Tianran & Joe
 
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= --Apple-Mail=_A4122BA9-0E11-4FD3-AE2D-96BC0564FCB2-- --Apple-Mail=_DADC0421-A2D7-4425-953B-9CBF5801974D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXSMzOQAKCRBugA9nE248 uHPNAKCnYnepT2S7PumFNGcCKk9vZRy+QACdHOiC79G77t8s7OPbcOn5rAmpGok= =FNo7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_DADC0421-A2D7-4425-953B-9CBF5801974D-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 07:03:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D3F120228; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:03:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VL4G4_8Pw_Lv; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FA031201E6; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id h6so27232930iom.7; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 07:03:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=GhwliavTGitXxoUmNmqlBfO8jz27HAdT+VFkaZMif38=; b=V2ZW/jBqQ+msnsTnnTprX/NI5oMif4Yt6aEN89/s123FuCDy64g9qIcaEPJZ5J+eeH gaKOSP/e8CLLK9+Zwkl5MlvohGQvsqMOn5cgjhF5oGy+qwTsBUWnwyRXTmk7SRavgBGP erp54+bHI5dIcPE+lFDebM1Xtq7k8Rq7QV2FSIlW1N7xSTdX8fMhnYafWv9o+MwMAnMl qN4gGe3XXN/at3/bU3UvAU1xqT8EqJVNDRZ5TTXr+DjO0JrCBNw5YVyWC1kT2z3jw1Re S/6fIQMd0R+POQ/CHecMk4n+K0HtjcgKMaB4DkouN71nmJdGibOzi8bGIAxhyKXbCEXv td9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=GhwliavTGitXxoUmNmqlBfO8jz27HAdT+VFkaZMif38=; b=OyFqIUrZTcRVF1A90MTifNgBcFo0ZTQWSwuprn1cvj3j0avSEgJfaVM5ZGk2BjFEaH XVK3I+6c/1Dk17ySDq6kE/xOCPvMfXfK9han2T1enNAQrRruky4liyO/74Un+NmmzjaJ dJNemZLBkLNEqzZlWfEeCnHwi+PUHyiswWj98eDjBTnm+IyG3EdeNTcik69EvJq23gPO QbEAXPhkDANg4k179hvnHGBnJIe7DYF3I8wX1KrSXt2U4OKQnzNrpaKAUd94Gj22OP9S Jq5Y8/jsdKUF21tChHmkRrp0Y7QN5+TOIYM4G5Oy3ZK/azNdhZRVCGCsswCjOTwa+Vnu d9mQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVOT7z80/5IhzhGmaDyV5UQsoAZxXPzg9lP1eVL/jROVOUpIUo4 huxM/7dHB9QP089JmsdLKqkZiEvfO35EH2/HNWtjk+Is X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwiKuSVR0zHy7k2vxhshOfy9vs0ODbu8wrcnOoSWrMesWdeIwo7q6wfIXk3eSn3AA/L3vlqw1sFIbhXjpysWqw= X-Received: by 2002:a02:5a02:: with SMTP id v2mr21106631jaa.124.1562594594412; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 07:03:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <156259372138.1051.8615205410511124401.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156259372138.1051.8615205410511124401.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: tirumal reddy Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:33:03 +0530 Message-ID: To: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ba6116058d2be7a7" Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 14:03:30 -0000 --000000000000ba6116058d2be7a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 discusses Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS profile on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to notice abnormal DTLS or TLS usage, which has been a strong indicator of other software running on the endpoint, typically malware. Comments, suggestions, and questions are more than welcome. Cheers, -Tiru ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18 Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt To: Tirumaleswar Reddy , Dan Wing A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls Revision: 00 Title: MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT devices Document date: 2019-07-08 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 16 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls Abstract: This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to model DTLS and TLS usage. This allows a network element to notice abnormal DTLS or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software running on the endpoint, typically malware. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --000000000000ba6116058d2be7a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This draft https://tools.ietf.org/ht= ml/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 discusses Manufacturer Usage Descriptio= n (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS profile on IoT devices. This allows a fir= ewall to notice abnormal DTLS or TLS usage, which has been a strong indicat= or of other software running on the endpoint, typically malware.=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-= family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Comments, suggestions, and questions are mor= e than welcome.

Cheers,
-Tiru

=

--= -------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18
Subject: New Version Notification f= or draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
To: Tirumaleswar Reddy <kondtir@gmail.com>, Dan Wing <danwing@gmail.com>


=
A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT device= s
Document date:=C2=A0 2019-07-08
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-t= ls-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to mode= l DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and TLS usage.=C2=A0 This allows a network element to notice a= bnormal DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0running on the endpoint, typically malware.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--000000000000ba6116058d2be7a7-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 07:33:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA00412024E; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:33:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ej68am4nZ2j6; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68843120222; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:32:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8977; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1562596378; x=1563805978; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=r+deaq67uas/uRJ7/FunlxLeHOW2nwzeus4Iya7Hveo=; b=b3lUVhkI0rzGO7tZiv38KGHVE5zb7EyNkdJcf0OpxuRWtFuWMNtt6eMY mhIpeZi3VTbAt57UtFeFSvHnBN4VYIFRpDxLLJt16RuUjETe/wFYMFMei vLh3hYBCw3Jrji3xtFpRCW1GhENJ2DHzJy5pytwoPyHOO2t7c5cd0ZN5P o=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAAAvUyNd/xbLJq1lGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUwQBAQEBAQsBgRSBbIEEKIw4X4tMJYcugh+FToNXhgK?= =?us-ascii?q?BewIHAQEBCQMBARgBCgwBAYFLgnUCgls0CQ4BAwEBBAEBAgEFbYo3DIVKAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBAQFsCQIFCwsRAwECAScHIQYfCQgGE4MiAYFqAw4PD6sYhDYCDkFAgjI?= =?us-ascii?q?NghYQgTQBgVCKJYF/gREnDBOCTD6CGkcBAQIBAYF9gxyCJgSMGhaHXFqVLEA?= =?us-ascii?q?JghmCH4EMgyuIbE+DcxuCLC8+hjSOMZRwgXOLAIMKAgQGBQIVgT0TOIFYMxo?= =?us-ascii?q?IGxUaISoBgkEJNYEKiX6FQT0DMAGOcAEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,466,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="14021538" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 08 Jul 2019 14:32:56 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp6619.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp6619.cisco.com [10.61.89.218]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x68EWsig004469 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:32:55 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E3F821F1-5D93-4987-9B60-C3B8157FC3A3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 16:32:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org To: tirumal reddy References: <156259372138.1051.8615205410511124401.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.89.218, ams3-vpn-dhcp6619.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 14:33:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E3F821F1-5D93-4987-9B60-C3B8157FC3A3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9FD7192D-3DCA-4818-A754-CBD500918C65" --Apple-Mail=_9FD7192D-3DCA-4818-A754-CBD500918C65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think this is a pretty cool idea. You should talk about it if you can = make the side meeting, or otherwise if you can get time at opsawg. Eliot > On 8 Jul 2019, at 16:03, tirumal reddy wrote: >=20 > This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 = discusses = Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS profile = on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to notice abnormal DTLS or TLS = usage, which has been a strong indicator of other software running on = the endpoint, typically malware. >=20 > Comments, suggestions, and questions are more than welcome. >=20 > Cheers, > -Tiru >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > > Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18 > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > To: Tirumaleswar Reddy >, = Dan Wing > >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to = the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls > Revision: 00 > Title: MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT devices > Document date: 2019-07-08 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/ = > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 = > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls = >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to model = DTLS > and TLS usage. This allows a network element to notice abnormal = DTLS > or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software > running on the endpoint, typically malware. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org = . >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > -- > Mud mailing list > Mud@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud --Apple-Mail=_9FD7192D-3DCA-4818-A754-CBD500918C65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = think this is a pretty cool idea.  You should talk about it if you = can make the side meeting, or otherwise if you can get time at = opsawg.

Eliot

On 8 Jul 2019, at 16:03, tirumal reddy <kondtir@gmail.com> = wrote:

This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 = discusses Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS = profile on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to notice abnormal DTLS = or TLS usage, which has been a strong indicator of other software = running on the endpoint, typically malware. 

Comments, suggestions, = and questions are more than welcome.

Cheers,
-Tiru

---------- = Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: = Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18
Subject: New Version Notification = for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
To: Tirumaleswar = Reddy <kondtir@gmail.com>, Dan Wing <danwing@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to = the
IETF repository.

Name:          =  draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls
Revision:       00
Title:          MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT = devices
Document date:  2019-07-08
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          16
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-= 00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/=
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls=


Abstract:
   This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to = model DTLS
   and TLS usage.  This allows a network element to = notice abnormal DTLS
   or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other = software
   running on the endpoint, typically malware.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--
Mud mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud

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MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.51.150) by MWHPR21MB0144.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.52.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2073.2; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 23:20:30 +0000 Received: from MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::69c0:8cb:908c:f221]) by MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::69c0:8cb:908c:f221%8]) with mapi id 15.20.2094.001; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 23:20:30 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: Dave Thaler , Suresh Krishnan , int-area , 6man , dhcwg , V6 Ops List , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "softwires@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 Thread-Index: AQHVIUvM9WEXtmDvEkCRovcCdcQgcKa8iIaAgAT7kjA= Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 23:20:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <75825363-B4BA-4F94-A935-B87F474F06C9@kaloom.com> <019801d522ce$34bff3a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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dthaler@ntdev.microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR21MB0144 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 23:20:50 -0000 --_000_MWHPR21MB0784475D021E1337D2600232A3F60MWHPR21MB0784namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI, draft-thaler-iftype-reg-04 is now posted and incorporates changes base= d on feedback from Med, Tom, Suresh, and others. Diffs from -02 can be seen at https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02.txt&url2= =3Ddraft-thaler-iftype-reg-04.txt Dave From: Softwires On Behalf Of Dave Thaler Sent: Friday, July 5, 2019 12:17 PM To: tom petch ; Suresh Krishnan ; i= nt-area ; 6man ; dhcwg ; = V6 Ops List ; opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Softwires] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-0= 2 -----Original Message----- From: dhcwg > On Beha= lf Of tom petch Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 9:28 AM To: Suresh Krishnan >; int-area= >; 6man >; dhcwg >; V6 Ops List= >; opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02 Suresh The concern I have is that it muddies the waters further on the standing of= tunnels so while I think that its proposals for ifType per se are fine, I = would like it to make explicit that tunnels are out-of-scope at this time. Tunnels are certainly not out-of-scope. There's two existing registries (i= nterface types and tunnel types), and this draft documents existing registr= ation process, and some process clarifications to address points of process= confusion and ease process friction today. I have been trying to reconcile the workings of softwire, in creating a tun= nel YANG module, with the existing IANA structure and failing. I believe t= hat is because the current status of tunnels is unclear. Thus the softwire= I-D refers to a registry that does not exist Yes it does. The software I-D does not create any new registry. It only= creates another format for retrieving the contents of an existing registry= . Many registries are retrievable in multiple formats (XML, excel, txt, et= c.). This registry is no different. What I can do is add a paragraph explaining the use of multiple formats for= the interface type and tunnel type registries, to make it clear that each = format is not a separate registry, just like getting the TCP port registry = in XML vs excel is not two different registries. Dave (as such) although the URL that the softwire I-D does. I think the timing u= nfortunate in that IMHO the softwires I-D will get pressed ahead before thi= s work can complete, so quite what this I-D then says about tunnels will be= coloured by what then exists for tunnels. So this I-D should make clear what a tunnel is, when it is not an interface= , but otherwise declaring tunnels out-of-scope, for a future I-D to do a co= mparable job for tunnels, setting up a tunnel registry from which MIB modul= es, YANG modules and anything else can be derived (as long as the relevant = data is supplied - SMI needs integers, YANG does not, which I-Ds do not alw= ays recognise although the Designated Experts can take care of that). Finally, when I first encountered this I-D I asked on NETCONF and NETMOD WG= lists if anyone knew of it, where it was being worked on and got no reply = - which surprised me. I note that you have not copied them although they w= ere involved in making the interface type registry what it currently is whe= n creating the YANG module for interface types. I wonder if other WG have = an interest, CCAMP or TEAS perhaps. I agree that int-area is the WG best e= quipped to work on it and that it needs working on. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suresh Krishnan" > To: "int-area" >; "6man" >; "dhcwg" >; "V6 Ops List" >; >; > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:22 PM Hi all, I would like to AD sponsor the following draft that provides guidelines f= or definition of new interface types in the IANA IfType registries https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40= microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7c= d011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&sdata=3DHM5asXOFnSuzPaCR4k4kopqsI= HLLdnqZ7PDuu8hPJM4%3D&reserved=3D0 If you have any concerns either with the contents of the draft, or about me= AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/06/26. Thanks Suresh NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I thought could be potential= ly interested in this work. If you think I have missed out some WG(s) pleas= e let me know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fint-area&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40 > microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91a > b2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&sdata=3Dznz7EZ1q%2FwIQUJC > gYZTWfY2H4C7tN6qFhJubCVWxWzc%3D&reserved=3D0 > _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdhcwg&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft= .com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%= 7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&sdata=3DOJvbRDz%2FCIlVF3hWR30KCs0cRgi9Kmtn= YLHKbHSeJzc%3D&reserved=3D0 --_000_MWHPR21MB0784475D021E1337D2600232A3F60MWHPR21MB0784namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

FYI, draft-thaler-ifty= pe-reg-04 is now posted and incorporates changes based on=

feedback from Med, Tom= , Suresh, and others.

 

Diffs from -02 can be = seen at

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-thale= r-iftype-reg-02.txt&url2=3Ddraft-thaler-iftype-reg-04.txt

 

Dave=

 

From: Softwires <softwires-bounces@ietf.or= g> On Behalf Of Dave Thaler
Sent: Friday, July 5, 2019 12:17 PM
To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>; Suresh Krishnan <Sures= h@kaloom.com>; int-area <int-area@ietf.org>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.or= g>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>; op= sawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Softwires] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftyp= e-reg-02

 

 

-----Original Message-= ----
From: dhcwg <dhcwg-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of tom petch
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 9:28 AM
To: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.= com>; int-area <int-area@iet= f.org>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org&= gt;; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>; = opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.o= rg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

 

Suresh

 

The concern I have is = that it muddies the waters further on the standing of tunnels so while I th= ink that its proposals for ifType per se are fine, I would like it to make = explicit that tunnels are out-of-scope at this time.

 

Tunnels are certainly= not out-of-scope.  There’s two existing registries (interface t= ypes and tunnel types), and this draft documents existing registration proc= ess, and some process clarifications to address points of process confusion and ease process friction today.

 

 

I have been trying to = reconcile the workings of softwire, in creating a tunnel YANG module, with = the existing IANA structure and failing.  I believe that is because th= e current status of tunnels is unclear.  Thus the softwire I-D refers to a registry that does not exist<= /p>

 

Yes it does.   The software I-D does no= t create any new registry.   It only creates another format for r= etrieving the contents of an existing registry.  Many registries are r= etrievable in multiple formats (XML, excel, txt, etc.).   This registry is no different.

 

What I can do is add a paragraph explaining the u= se of multiple formats for the interface type and tunnel type registries, t= o make it clear that each format is not a separate registry, just like gett= ing the TCP port registry in XML vs excel is not two different registries.

 

Dave

 

(as such) although the= URL that the softwire I-D does. I think the timing unfortunate in that IMH= O the softwires I-D will get pressed ahead before this work can complete, s= o quite what this I-D then says about tunnels will be coloured by what then exists for tunnels.

 

So this I-D should mak= e clear what a tunnel is, when it is not an interface, but otherwise declar= ing tunnels out-of-scope, for a future I-D to do a comparable job for tunne= ls, setting up a tunnel registry from which MIB modules, YANG modules and anything else can be derived (as long = as the relevant data is supplied - SMI needs integers, YANG does not, which= I-Ds do not always recognise although the Designated Experts can take care= of that).

 

Finally, when I first = encountered this I-D I asked on NETCONF and NETMOD WG lists if anyone knew = of it, where it was being worked on and got no reply - which surprised me.&= nbsp; I note that you have not copied them although they were involved in making the interface type registry what it = currently is when creating the YANG module for interface types.  I won= der if other WG have an interest, CCAMP or TEAS perhaps.  I agree that= int-area is the WG best equipped to work on it and that it needs working on.

 

Tom Petch

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Suresh Krishnan" <Suresh@kaloom.com>

To: "int-area" <int-= area@ietf.org>; "6man" <ipv6@ietf.or= g>; "dhcwg"

<dhcwg@ietf.org>; &= quot;V6 Ops List" <v6ops@ietf.org>; <opsawg@ietf.org>; <sof= twires@ietf.org>

Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:22 PM=

 

Hi all,

  I would like to AD sponsor the following d= raft that provides guidelines for definition of new interface types in the = IANA IfType registries

 

https://nam06.s= afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%= 2Fdraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.c= om%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C= 1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&amp;sdata=3DHM5asXOFnSuzPaCR4k4kopqsIHLLdnqZ= 7PDuu8hPJM4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

 

If you have any concerns either with the contents= of the draft, or about me AD sponsoring it please let me know before 2019/= 06/26.

 

Thanks

Suresh

 

NOTE: I have CCed: all the working groups that I = thought could be potentially interested in this work. If you think I have m= issed out some WG(s) please let me know.

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------= -----------------------

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> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fint-area&= ;amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40

> microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e5= 5a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91a

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Dave:

Good work for cleaning up the mess in the IANA registry, support = for publication.

One thing puzzling me a lot is what is t=
he key difference between ifType and TunnelType, suppose I want to register=
 a new encapsulation interface, should I register it as IANAifType

Or IANAtunneltype?

See the following two registries:

https://www.iana.org/assignments/iana= iftype-mib/ianaiftype-mib

https://www.iana.org/assignment= s/smi-numbers/smi-numbers.xhtml

The relationship beween IANAifType and IANAtunneltype is not clea= r to me.

See the following quot= ed text in the second registry:

=A1=B0

Internet-standard MIB = - mib-2.interface.ifTable.ifEntry.ifType.tunnelType

=A1=B0

Is tunneltype subtype of ifType?

Also see YANG modules registry and YANG parameter registry in http= s://www.iana.org/protocols

YANG Modules

iana= -bfd-types YANG Module

Internet Draft draft-ietf-bfd-yang-17, RFC 5880 
See BFD Diagnostic Codes and BFD Authentication Types r= egistries.

ia= na-crypt-hash YANG Module

RFC 7317 
Expert Review (Expert: Unassigned)

iana-h= ardware YANG Module

RFC 8348 
See IANA-ENTITY-MIB MIB module.

iana-if-= type YANG Module

RFC 1213, RFC 2863, RFC 7224 
See ifType definitions registry.

iana-routing-types YANG Module

RFC 8294, RFC 2453, RFC 2677, RFC 2858, RFC 4760 
See Address Family Numbers and Subsequent Address Famil= y Identifiers (SAFI) Values registries.

= iana-tunnel-type YANG Module

RFC 4087, Internet Draft draft-ietf-softwire-iftunnel-07 
See tunnelType registry (mib-2.interface.ifTable.ifEntr= y.ifType.tunnelType).

YANG Parameters

<= span style=3D"color:#0069D6;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-d= ecoration:none">YANG Module Names

RFC 6020, RFC 8407 
RFC Required

Why YANG parameter registry is not sufficient since YANG paramete= r registry seems to have already include YANG module.

Why not consolidate these two into one?

 

-Qin

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:= OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Dave Thaler
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:= 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C29=C8=D5 7:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Dave Thaler <dthaler=3D40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Sures= h Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com>; int-area <int-area@ietf.org>; 6= man <ipv6@ietf.org>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; V6 Ops List <v6= ops@ietf.org>; opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [OPSAWG] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

 

FYI, dr= aft-thaler-iftype-reg-04 is now posted and incorporates changes based on

feedbac= k from Med, Tom, Suresh, and others.

&n= bsp;

Diffs f= rom -02 can be seen at

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url= 1=3Ddraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02.txt&url2=3Ddraft-thaler-iftype-reg-04.tx= t

&n= bsp;

Dave

&n= bsp;

From: Softwires <sof= twires-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Dave Thaler
Sent: Friday, July 5, 2019 12:17 PM
To: tom petch <ietfc@btcon= nect.com>; Suresh Krishnan <= Suresh@kaloom.com>; int-area <int-area@ietf.org>; 6man <ipv6= @ietf.org>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; V6 Ops= List <v6ops@ietf.org>; opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Softwires] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftyp= e-reg-02

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg <dhcwg-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of tom petch
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 9:28 AM
To: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.= com>; int-area <int-area@iet= f.org>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org&= gt;; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>; = opsawg@ietf.org; softwires@ietf.o= rg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-area] AD sponsoring draft-thaler-iftype-reg-02

 

Suresh

 

The concern I have is that it muddies the waters further on the standing o= f tunnels so while I think that its proposals for ifType per se are fine, I= would like it to make explicit that tunnels are out-of-scope at this time.

&= nbsp;

Tunnel= s are certainly not out-of-scope.  There=A1=AFs two existing registrie= s (interface types and tunnel types), and this draft documents existing reg= istration process, and some process clarifications to address points of process confusion and ease process friction today.

&= nbsp;

 

I have been trying to reconcile the workings of softwire, in creating a tu= nnel YANG module, with the existing IANA structure and failing.  I bel= ieve that is because the current status of tunnels is unclear.  Thus the softwire I-D refers to a registry that = does not exist

 

Yes it does.   The= software I-D does not create any new registry.   It only creates= another format for retrieving the contents of an existing registry.  = Many registries are retrievable in multiple formats (XML, excel, txt, etc.).   This registry is no different.

 

What I can do is add a parag= raph explaining the use of multiple formats for the interface type and tunn= el type registries, to make it clear that each format is not a separate reg= istry, just like getting the TCP port registry in XML vs excel is not two different registries.

 

Dave

 

(as such) although the URL that the softwire I-D does. I think the timing = unfortunate in that IMHO the softwires I-D will get pressed ahead before th= is work can complete, so quite what this I-D then says about tunnels will be coloured by what then exists for tunne= ls.

 

So this I-D should make clear what a tunnel is, when it is not an interfac= e, but otherwise declaring tunnels out-of-scope, for a future I-D to do a c= omparable job for tunnels, setting up a tunnel registry from which MIB modules, YANG modules and anything else c= an be derived (as long as the relevant data is supplied - SMI needs integer= s, YANG does not, which I-Ds do not always recognise although the Designate= d Experts can take care of that).

 

Finally, when I first encountered this I-D I asked on NETCONF and NETMOD W= G lists if anyone knew of it, where it was being worked on and got no reply= - which surprised me.  I note that you have not copied them although they were involved in making the interface t= ype registry what it currently is when creating the YANG module for interfa= ce types.  I wonder if other WG have an interest, CCAMP or TEAS perhap= s.  I agree that int-area is the WG best equipped to work on it and that it needs working on.

 

Tom Petch

 

----- Original Message -----=

From: "Suresh Krishnan&= quot; <Suresh@kaloom.com>

To: "int-area" <= ;int-area@ietf.org>; "6man" <ipv6@ietf.org>; "dhcwg"

<dhcwg@ietf.= org>; "V6 Ops List" <v6ops@ietf.org= >; <opsawg@ietf.org>; <sof= twires@ietf.org>

Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 20= 19 7:22 PM

 

Hi all,

  I would like to AD sp= onsor the following draft that provides guidelines for definition of new in= terface types in the IANA IfType registries

 

https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-thaler-iftype-reg-02&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdt= haler%40microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af= 91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&amp;sdata=3DHM5asXOFnSuzP= aCR4k4kopqsIHLLdnqZ7PDuu8hPJM4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

 

If you have any concerns eit= her with the contents of the draft, or about me AD sponsoring it please let= me know before 2019/06/26.

 

Thanks

Suresh

 

NOTE: I have CCed: all the w= orking groups that I thought could be potentially interested in this work. = If you think I have missed out some WG(s) please let me know.

 

 

 

----------------------------= --------------------------------------------

--------

 

 

> _______________________= ________________________

> Int-area mailing list

> Int-are= a@ietf.org

> https://nam06.safeli= nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.<= /span>

> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Fli= stinfo%2Fint-area&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40

> microsoft.com%7Cbd9080f= 665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91a

> b2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7= C636961265202763707&amp;sdata=3Dznz7EZ1q%2FwIQUJC

> gYZTWfY2H4C7tN6qFhJubCV= WxWzc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

> =

 

____________________________= ___________________

dhcwg mailing list

dhcwg@ietf.org<= /span>

https= ://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org= %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdhcwg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.= com%7Cbd9080f665064f564d3608d6f0e55a88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7= C1%7C0%7C636961265202763707&amp;sdata=3DOJvbRDz%2FCIlVF3hWR30KCs0cRgi9K= mtnYLHKbHSeJzc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49CD81Enkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 19:25:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7228F1202F2 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:25:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_MIME_MALF=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SfemQycV9SSi for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E8AC12024F for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 96F38291CD5884D05F8E for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:25:12 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM423-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.40) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:25:11 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.167]) by dggemm423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:22:47 +0800 From: wangzitao To: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU1/OcMubDWzWnISKaYfDzCLPz43A== Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:22:47 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.142.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A266DGGEMM527MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:25:19 -0000 --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A266DGGEMM527MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not aware of any IPR. Best Regards! -Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:54:58 +0000 From: "Wubo (lana)" > To: Tianran Zhou >, "= opsawg@ietf.org" > Cc: OpsAWG Chairs > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Message-ID: <66b7e75b650c456f9ece44503b9cc8df@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312" As a co-author, I am not aware of any IPR associated with this draft. Thanks, Bo ???: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] ?? Tianran Zhou ????: 2019?7?7? 16:04 ???: opsawg@ietf.org ??: OpsAWG Chairs > ??: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Hi WG, Accompany with the adoption poll, this mail starts the IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02? If you own or are aware of any IPR that applies to the draft-zheng-opsawg-t= acacs-yang-02, please clarify whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance= with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to thi= s email in OPSAWG mailing list regardless of whether or not you are aware o= f any relevant IPR. The document will not advance to the next stage until a= response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are not listed as an author or contributor but are on OPSAWG mailing= list, then please explicitly respond if you are aware of any IPR that has = not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thank you for kind support. Regards, Tianran & Joe --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A266DGGEMM527MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am not aware of any IPR.

 

Best Regards!

-Michael

 

----------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------<= /o:p>

 

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:54:= 58 +0000

From: "Wubo (lana)"= ; <lana.wubo@huawei.com><= o:p>

To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org"

    &nbs= p;    <opsawg@ietf.org= >

Cc: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR po= ll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

Message-ID: <66b7e75b650c456f9ece4450= 3b9cc8df@huawei.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; ch= arset=3D"gb2312"

 

As a co-author, I am not awa= re of any IPR associated with this draft.

 

Thanks,

Bo

 

???: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] ?? Tianran = Zhou

????: 2019?7?7? 16:04

???: opsawg@ietf.org

??: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>

??: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on dra= ft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

Hi WG,

 

 

 

Accompany with the adoption = poll, this mail starts the IPR poll.

 

 

 

Are you aware of any IPR tha= t applies to draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02?

 

 

 

If you own or are aware of a= ny IPR that applies to the draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02, please clarif= y whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 

 

 

If you are listed as a docum= ent author or contributor please respond to this email in OPSAWG mailing li= st regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. The docu= ment will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor.<= /o:p>

 

 

 

If you are not listed as an = author or contributor but are on OPSAWG mailing list, then please explicitl= y respond if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in co= nformance with IETF rules.

 

 

 

Thank you for kind support.<= o:p>

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tianran & Joe=

 

--_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A266DGGEMM527MBXchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 19:26:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AFE1202F2 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:26:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_MIME_MALF=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y5Vmv_wMNl2q for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B6E312024F for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AA1BC55850022BD389D5 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:26:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM422-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:26:42 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.167]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:25:58 +0800 From: wangzitao To: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU1/WXYp4QWpJSPSk6PavEkEJBebg== Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:25:57 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.142.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A273DGGEMM527MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:26:49 -0000 --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A273DGGEMM527MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support as a co-author. Best Regards! -Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:55:08 +0000 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" Cc: OpsAWG Chairs Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312" Support as a co-author. Thanks, Bo ???: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] ?? Tianran Zhou ????: 2019?7?7? 15:59 ???: opsawg@ietf.org ??: OpsAWG Chairs ??: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Hi WG, This document was presented in Prague. The authors have addressed all the c= omments and believe it?s ready for further working group discussion. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give an ind= ication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you will be wi= lling to review and help the draft. If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for work o= n this topic, please say why.. This poll will run until 22nd July. Regards, Tianran & Joe --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A273DGGEMM527MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support as a co-author.

 

Best Regards!=

-Michael

 

-------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:55:08 = +0000

From: "Wubo (lana)" &= lt;lana.wubo@huawei.com>

To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianra= n@huawei.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org"

     &= nbsp;   <opsawg@ietf.org>

Cc: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-ch= airs@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adopti= on poll for

     &= nbsp;   draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

Message-ID: <e26e01670b0f41b= 5a1c533696773bb2c@huawei.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; chars= et=3D"gb2312"

 

Support as a co-author.

 

Thanks,

Bo

 

???: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-boun= ces@ietf.org] ?? Tianran Zhou

????: 2019?7?7? 15:59

???: opsawg@ietf.org=

??: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-ch= airs@ietf.org>

??: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll f= or draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

Hi WG,

 

 

 

This document was presented in = Prague. The authors have addressed all the comments and believe it?s ready = for further working group discussion.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

 

 

 

This email starts a two weeks p= oll for adoption.

 

If you support adopting this do= cument please say so, and please give an indication of why you think it is = important. Also please say if you will be willing to review and help the dr= aft.

 

If you do not support adopting = this document as a starting point for work on this topic, please say why..<= o:p>

 

This poll will run until 22nd J= uly.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tianran & Joe

--_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2DA1A273DGGEMM527MBXchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 19:30:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD601202F8 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:30:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_MIME_MALF=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Ab4LDnSzXKU for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFD101202F2 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 60252ED4D2C00B907778 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:30:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:30:43 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:30:34 +0800 From: "Zhengguangying (Walker)" To: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU1/OcMubDWzWnISKaYfDzCLPz43AAASV1A Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:30:35 +0000 Message-ID: <381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2A5@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.169.155] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2A5nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:30:48 -0000 --_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2A5nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUiBhc3NvY2lhdGVkIHdpdGggdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4NCg0K DQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENCg0KLVdhbGtlcg0KDQoNCkZyb206IHdhbmd6aXRhbw0KU2VudDog MjAxOcTqN9TCOcjVIDEwOjIzDQpUbzogb3BzYXdnQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW09Q U0FXR10gSVBSIHBvbGwgb24gZHJhZnQtemhlbmctb3BzYXdnLXRhY2Fjcy15YW5nLTAyDQoNCg0K SSBhbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUi4NCg0KDQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENCg0KLU1pY2hh ZWwNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCg0KDQoN CkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgOCBKdWwgMjAxOSAwNjo1NDo1OCArMDAwMA0KDQpGcm9tOiAiV3VibyAobGFu YSkiIDxsYW5hLnd1Ym9AaHVhd2VpLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86bGFuYS53dWJvQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+Pg0K DQpUbzogVGlhbnJhbiBaaG91IDx6aG91dGlhbnJhbkBodWF3ZWkuY29tPG1haWx0bzp6aG91dGlh bnJhbkBodWF3ZWkuY29tPj4sICJvcHNhd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9y Zz4iDQoNCiAgICAgICAgIDxvcHNhd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZz4+ DQoNCkNjOiBPcHNBV0cgQ2hhaXJzIDxvcHNhd2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpvcHNh d2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPj4NCg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtPUFNBV0ddIElQUiBwb2xsIG9u IGRyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW9wc2F3Zy10YWNhY3MteWFuZy0wMg0KDQpNZXNzYWdlLUlEOiA8NjZiN2U3 NWI2NTBjNDU2ZjllY2U0NDUwM2I5Y2M4ZGZAaHVhd2VpLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86NjZiN2U3NWI2NTBj NDU2ZjllY2U0NDUwM2I5Y2M4ZGZAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4+DQoNCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogdGV4dC9w bGFpbjsgY2hhcnNldD0iZ2IyMzEyIg0KDQoNCg0KQXMgYSBjby1hdXRob3IsIEkgYW0gbm90IGF3 YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3aXRoIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuDQoNCg0KDQpUaGFua3Ms DQoNCkJvDQoNCg0KDQo/Pz86IE9QU0FXRyBbbWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Zy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3Jn XSA/PyBUaWFucmFuIFpob3UNCg0KPz8/PzogMjAxOT83Pzc/IDE2OjA0DQoNCj8/Pzogb3BzYXdn QGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpvcHNhd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQoNCj8/OiBPcHNBV0cgQ2hhaXJzIDxv cHNhd2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpvcHNhd2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPj4NCg0K Pz86IFtPUFNBV0ddIElQUiBwb2xsIG9uIGRyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW9wc2F3Zy10YWNhY3MteWFuZy0w Mg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCkhpIFdHLA0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpBY2NvbXBhbnkgd2l0aCB0aGUgYWRv cHRpb24gcG9sbCwgdGhpcyBtYWlsIHN0YXJ0cyB0aGUgSVBSIHBvbGwuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoN CkFyZSB5b3UgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUiB0aGF0IGFwcGxpZXMgdG8gZHJhZnQtemhlbmctb3Bz YXdnLXRhY2Fjcy15YW5nLTAyPw0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpJZiB5b3Ugb3duIG9yIGFyZSBhd2Fy ZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGUgZHJhZnQtemhlbmctb3BzYXdnLXRhY2Fj cy15YW5nLTAyLCBwbGVhc2UgY2xhcmlmeSB3aGV0aGVyIHRoaXMgSVBSIGJlZW4gZGlzY2xvc2Vk IGluIGNvbXBsaWFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJRVRGIElQUiBydWxlcyAoc2VlIFJGQ3MgMzk3OSwgNDg3OSwg MzY2OSBhbmQgNTM3OCBmb3IgbW9yZSBkZXRhaWxzKS4NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KSWYgeW91IGFy ZSBsaXN0ZWQgYXMgYSBkb2N1bWVudCBhdXRob3Igb3IgY29udHJpYnV0b3IgcGxlYXNlIHJlc3Bv bmQgdG8gdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBPUFNBV0cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IHJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mgb2Ygd2hl dGhlciBvciBub3QgeW91IGFyZSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgcmVsZXZhbnQgSVBSLiBUaGUgZG9jdW1l bnQgd2lsbCBub3QgYWR2YW5jZSB0byB0aGUgbmV4dCBzdGFnZSB1bnRpbCBhIHJlc3BvbnNlIGhh cyBiZWVuIHJlY2VpdmVkIGZyb20gZWFjaCBhdXRob3IgYW5kIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLg0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCBsaXN0ZWQgYXMgYW4gYXV0aG9yIG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9y IGJ1dCBhcmUgb24gT1BTQVdHIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCwgdGhlbiBwbGVhc2UgZXhwbGljaXRseSBy ZXNwb25kIGlmIHlvdSBhcmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUiB0aGF0IGhhcyBub3QgeWV0IGJlZW4g ZGlzY2xvc2VkIGluIGNvbmZvcm1hbmNlIHdpdGggSUVURiBydWxlcy4NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K VGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciBraW5kIHN1cHBvcnQuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCg0K DQpUaWFucmFuICYgSm9lDQoNCg== --_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2A5nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am not aware of any IPR as= sociated with this draft.

 

Best Regards!

-Walker

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: wangzitao
Sent: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C29=C8=D5 10:23
To: opsawg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02<= o:p>

 

I am not aware of any IPR.

 

Best Regards!

-Michael

 

----------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------<= /o:p>

 

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:54:= 58 +0000

From: "Wubo (lana)"= ; <lana.wubo@huawei.com><= o:p>

To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org"

    &nbs= p;    <opsawg@ietf.org= >

Cc: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] IPR po= ll on draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

Message-ID: <66b7e75b650c456f9ece4450= 3b9cc8df@huawei.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; ch= arset=3D"gb2312"

 

As a co-author, I am not awa= re of any IPR associated with this draft.

 

Thanks,

Bo

 

???: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] ?? Tianran = Zhou

????: 2019?7?7? 16:04

???: opsawg@ietf.org

??: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>

??: [OPSAWG] IPR poll on dra= ft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

Hi WG,

 

 

 

Accompany with the adoption = poll, this mail starts the IPR poll.

 

 

 

Are you aware of any IPR tha= t applies to draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02?

 

 

 

If you own or are aware of a= ny IPR that applies to the draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02, please clarif= y whether this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 

 

 

If you are listed as a docum= ent author or contributor please respond to this email in OPSAWG mailing li= st regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. The docu= ment will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor.<= /o:p>

 

 

 

If you are not listed as an = author or contributor but are on OPSAWG mailing list, then please explicitl= y respond if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in co= nformance with IETF rules.

 

 

 

Thank you for kind support.<= o:p>

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tianran & Joe=

 

--_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2A5nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 19:31:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961501202F8 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:31:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_MIME_MALF=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9wJ90z3oxYZk for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DED41202F2 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1C296F288CBEF469D4F5 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:31:28 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:31:27 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:31:22 +0800 From: "Zhengguangying (Walker)" To: "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU1/WXYp4QWpJSPSk6PavEkEJBebgAANkew Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:31:21 +0000 Message-ID: <381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2B0@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.169.155] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2B0nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:31:32 -0000 --_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2B0nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpTdXBwb3J0IGFzIGEgY28tYXV0aG9yLg0KDQpCZXN0IFJlZ2FyZHMhDQotd2Fsa2VyDQoNCg0K RnJvbTogd2FuZ3ppdGFvDQpTZW50OiAyMDE5xOo31MI5yNUgMTA6MjYNClRvOiBvcHNhd2dAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbT1BTQVdHXSBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBwb2xsIGZvciBkcmFmdC16 aGVuZy1vcHNhd2ctdGFjYWNzLXlhbmctMDINCg0KU3VwcG9ydCBhcyBhIGNvLWF1dGhvci4NCg0K QmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzIQ0KLU1pY2hhZWwNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0K DQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDggSnVsIDIwMTkgMDY6NTU6MDggKzAwMDANCkZyb206ICJXdWJvIChsYW5h KSIgPGxhbmEud3Vib0BodWF3ZWkuY29tPG1haWx0bzpsYW5hLnd1Ym9AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4+DQpU bzogVGlhbnJhbiBaaG91IDx6aG91dGlhbnJhbkBodWF3ZWkuY29tPG1haWx0bzp6aG91dGlhbnJh bkBodWF3ZWkuY29tPj4sICJvcHNhd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZz4i DQogICAgICAgICA8b3BzYXdnQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpvcHNhd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+Pg0KQ2M6 IE9wc0FXRyBDaGFpcnMgPG9wc2F3Zy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Zy1jaGFp cnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+Pg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtPUFNBV0ddIFdHIGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwgZm9y DQogICAgICAgICBkcmFmdC16aGVuZy1vcHNhd2ctdGFjYWNzLXlhbmctMDINCk1lc3NhZ2UtSUQ6 IDxlMjZlMDE2NzBiMGY0MWI1YTFjNTMzNjk2NzczYmIyY0BodWF3ZWkuY29tPG1haWx0bzplMjZl MDE2NzBiMGY0MWI1YTFjNTMzNjk2NzczYmIyY0BodWF3ZWkuY29tPj4NCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTog dGV4dC9wbGFpbjsgY2hhcnNldD0iZ2IyMzEyIg0KDQpTdXBwb3J0IGFzIGEgY28tYXV0aG9yLg0K DQpUaGFua3MsDQpCbw0KDQo/Pz86IE9QU0FXRyBbbWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Zy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYu b3JnXSA/PyBUaWFucmFuIFpob3UNCj8/Pz86IDIwMTk/Nz83PyAxNTo1OQ0KPz8/OiBvcHNhd2dA aWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm9wc2F3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj8/OiBPcHNBV0cgQ2hhaXJzIDxvcHNh d2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpvcHNhd2ctY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPj4NCj8/OiBb T1BTQVdHXSBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBwb2xsIGZvciBkcmFmdC16aGVuZy1vcHNhd2ctdGFjYWNzLXlh bmctMDINCg0KDQpIaSBXRywNCg0KDQoNClRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2FzIHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiBQ cmFndWUuIFRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGhhdmUgYWRkcmVzc2VkIGFsbCB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMgYW5kIGJl bGlldmUgaXQ/cyByZWFkeSBmb3IgZnVydGhlciB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGRpc2N1c3Npb24uDQoN Cmh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC16aGVuZy1vcHNhd2ctdGFjYWNzLXlh bmctMDINCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpUaGlzIGVtYWlsIHN0YXJ0cyBhIHR3byB3ZWVrcyBwb2xsIGZvciBh ZG9wdGlvbi4NCg0KSWYgeW91IHN1cHBvcnQgYWRvcHRpbmcgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBwbGVhc2Ug c2F5IHNvLCBhbmQgcGxlYXNlIGdpdmUgYW4gaW5kaWNhdGlvbiBvZiB3aHkgeW91IHRoaW5rIGl0 IGlzIGltcG9ydGFudC4gQWxzbyBwbGVhc2Ugc2F5IGlmIHlvdSB3aWxsIGJlIHdpbGxpbmcgdG8g cmV2aWV3IGFuZCBoZWxwIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4NCg0KSWYgeW91IGRvIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0IGFkb3B0 aW5nIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXMgYSBzdGFydGluZyBwb2ludCBmb3Igd29yayBvbiB0aGlzIHRv cGljLCBwbGVhc2Ugc2F5IHdoeS4uDQoNClRoaXMgcG9sbCB3aWxsIHJ1biB1bnRpbCAyMm5kIEp1 bHkuDQoNCg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpUaWFucmFuICYgSm9lDQo= --_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2B0nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Support as a co-author.

 

Best Regards!=

-walker

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: wangzitao
Sent: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C29=C8=D5 10:26
To: opsawg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs= -yang-02

 

Support as a co-author.

 

Best Regards!=

-Michael

 

-------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------

 

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 06:55:08 = +0000

From: "Wubo (lana)" &= lt;lana.wubo@huawei.com>

To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org"

     &= nbsp;   <opsawg@ietf.org>

Cc: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adopti= on poll for

     &= nbsp;   draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

Message-ID: <e26e01670b0f41b5a1c53369677= 3bb2c@huawei.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; chars= et=3D"gb2312"

 

Support as a co-author.

 

Thanks,

Bo

 

???: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] ?? Tianran Zho= u

????: 2019?7?7? 15:59

???: opsawg@ietf.org

??: OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>

??: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll f= or draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

Hi WG,

 

 

 

This document was presented in = Prague. The authors have addressed all the comments and believe it?s ready = for further working group discussion.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02

 

 

 

 

 

This email starts a two weeks p= oll for adoption.

 

If you support adopting this do= cument please say so, and please give an indication of why you think it is = important. Also please say if you will be willing to review and help the dr= aft.

 

If you do not support adopting = this document as a starting point for work on this topic, please say why..<= o:p>

 

This poll will run until 22nd J= uly.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tianran & Joe

--_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140E471C2B0nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 19:35:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1021200E5; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:35:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7oy8PpwiDTpe; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 526C31200DB; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 19:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 975ACE25A142DB325AD4; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:35:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:35:33 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.134]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:35:28 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Eliot Lear CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU0mY0HwLESRG3CQh28DItDm66IJAAqdWKAAC0O0GA= Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:35:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3AF6CDDC-7C4A-4EF6-8B33-A767AA475F76@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AF6CDDC-7C4A-4EF6-8B33-A767AA475F76@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US 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--_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEE7C23ANKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 20:00:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FBE1200EF; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 20:00:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6fnJo_VPyT4; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 20:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49CD8C1nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Jul 8 20:20:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E051200F8; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 20:20:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8yJl9CDq2zx; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 20:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADE2E1200F4; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 20:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id DE766BAF7D11A7D61828; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:20:05 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:20:05 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:19:56 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Tianran Zhou , Eliot Lear CC: "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU2BNBMZocTof9pR0izozckmUZw/w== Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:19:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: 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+0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Qin Wu , Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs To: "Wubo (lana)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.246.121, [10.61.246.121] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 09:35:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6C6A39EB-964C-4BE5-B9FD-E2E8846029C6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_418D9F18-0F5C-4759-BD43-2B2E0E4035C3" --Apple-Mail=_418D9F18-0F5C-4759-BD43-2B2E0E4035C3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 9 Jul 2019, at 08:59, Wubo (lana) wrote: >=20 > Thank Eliot for pointing out these questions. I share a similar view = with Qin, and I suggest to make the following changes in the next = version: >=20 > 1. draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs will be changed as a normative reference = according to RFC3967. Several points: please take into account that RFC 8067 updates RFC 3967. = What this means is that you should probably have a brief chat with the = chairs and Ignas on this point to see what he wants. It may also be = worth a little bit of discussion time. >=20 > 2. For the second point, I think your concern may be whether the = TACACS + YANG model is flexible enough to accommodate the TACACS = advanced features. I think the augmentation is exactly what you want to do for this sort of = thing. > The current TACACS + YANG architecture is designed with per-server = configuration and statistics methods. Each server is configured with a = TCP port and a shared key. > These nodes may change to use a "choice" statement. If the TACACS++ = extends to use TLS protocol, the transport extensions can be added as = new "case" statements. =46rom what I gather of the model, it merely talks about the state and = configuration of the T+ connection itself. I think this mitigates = reasonably well in favor of a downref since that sort of state is not = likely to change too much, and if it does, you can augment again. Eliot >=20 > Thanks, > Bo > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org = ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 = 11:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou >; Eliot Lear > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org ; OpsAWG = Chairs > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for = draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 >=20 > A few thoughts on Eliot=E2=80=99s two questions: > 1. Do we have YANG data model draft developed by IETF published = as informational RFC? I haven=E2=80=99t seen one. > 2. This model uses system management YANG data model defined in = RFC7317 as base model and augment it with TACACS+ specifics, and RFC7317 = is standard track RFC. > 3. Downref is allowed in some circumstance, See RFC3967 section = 2, first two bullets. > 4. TACACS+ protocol has been moved for publication. Whether or = not TACACS++ comes later, TACACS+ will be basis for any advanced = features. So timing is perfect. >=20 > -Qin > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org = ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Tianran Zhou > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 = 10:35 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eliot Lear > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org ; OpsAWG = Chairs > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for = draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 >=20 > Hi Eliot, >=20 > Thanks for your suggestions. Please see inline. >=20 > Tianran >=20 > From: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com ] > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2019 8:13 PM > To: Tianran Zhou > > Cc: opsawg@ietf.org ; OpsAWG Chairs = > > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for = draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 >=20 > Hi Tianran, >=20 > I have two concerns about this draft. First is the intended status of = this document. It currently calls out draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs as an = informational reference. I think the question here is really whether = this draft should also be informational. As a practical matter you = really do need to have implemented the other draft for this one to be = implemented. And that means that really it should be a normative = reference. But it would be a downref. To address this, I suggest just = making this document an informational draft, rather than targeting for = standards, and make the reference normative. >=20 > [Tianran] Yes, I have the same concern. You provided a good approach. = On the other hand, I think RFC3967 described this case. > =E2=80=9C2. The Need for Downward References > =E2=80=A6 > o A standards document may need to refer to a proprietary = protocol, > and the IETF normally documents proprietary protocols using > informational RFCs.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In addition, I have another question. Is there interest or appetite = for creating a standardized and more version of T+? If so, is the = timing of a standardized YANG model appropriate? >=20 > [Tianran] I would like to see how the WG would like to approach. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 7 Jul 2019, at 09:58, Tianran Zhou > wrote: >=20 > Hi WG, >=20 > This document was presented in Prague. The authors have addressed all = the comments and believe it=E2=80=99s ready for further working group = discussion. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 = >=20 >=20 > This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. > If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give = an indication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you = will be willing to review and help the draft. > If you do not support adopting this document as a starting point for = work on this topic, please say why.. > This poll will run until 22nd July. >=20 > Regards, > Tianran & Joe >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg = --Apple-Mail=_418D9F18-0F5C-4759-BD43-2B2E0E4035C3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 9 Jul 2019, at 08:59, Wubo (lana) <lana.wubo@huawei.com> wrote:

Thank Eliot for pointing out these questions. I share a = similar view with Qin, and I suggest to make the following changes in = the next version:
 
1. draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs will be = changed as a normative reference according to = RFC3967.

Several points: please take into account that RFC 8067 = updates RFC 3967.  What this means is that you should probably have = a brief chat with the chairs and Ignas on this point to see what he = wants.  It may also be worth a little bit of discussion = time.

 
2. For the second point, I think your = concern may be whether the TACACS + YANG model is flexible enough to = accommodate the TACACS advanced = features.

I= think the augmentation is exactly what you want to do for this sort of = thing.

The current TACACS + YANG architecture is designed with = per-server configuration and statistics methods. Each server is = configured with a TCP port and a shared key.
These nodes may change to use a "choice" statement. If the = TACACS++ extends to use TLS protocol, the transport extensions can be = added as new "case" = statements.

=46rom what I gather of the model, it merely talks = about the state and configuration of the T+ connection itself.  I = think this mitigates reasonably well in favor of a downref since that = sort of state is not likely to change too much, and if it does, you can = augment again.

Eliot

= --Apple-Mail=_418D9F18-0F5C-4759-BD43-2B2E0E4035C3-- --Apple-Mail=_6C6A39EB-964C-4BE5-B9FD-E2E8846029C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXSRf8wAKCRBugA9nE248 uA6VAKCV3vzFnKqFhOL0eKk1i0lFEf78fwCfVecg2cCsGL8iqtfGQ7gvxK8PuM0= =kO1T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6C6A39EB-964C-4BE5-B9FD-E2E8846029C6-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 02:53:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C695B1200B6; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:53:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4pF3S_iMTEYs; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B56AD12011C; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 02:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id i10so41735634iol.13; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:53:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NCTSu/qlK2zhK7stVSW1rm+bGOdxyN28jjGM/t2tt38=; b=L4RdDN9O/BSxBu2hpCCYQFOMpkzaCPKICy0XXlQUW0DVRydWqZZgChjugUdqLdJcUZ UV3ZlbumJF0pNpTGMxSaIIMo8V6uBFLgJ/LOzskGKBSZ/rtwjLNYY7iNA7mHGgb1fxy2 qfiFJtwcKfocDM7ViQo8GSj+AHEvjbGjkXIGxyO+x7l1I6I1tzGlQMJ8qtfF+SXtnvN4 ZXjC1BpJRCPPSRwoFQKOrVp+JifJG8RDfbSyT5E4CmYsezPJC4w4msRySvGHscYJxkIu H9CXA9jcDyB4bhVsUdkyjzRPdNvqvRlW3ZUtYdQ9jv651Qy4rrh94FmnRkMTMjNAR3nv nzhw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NCTSu/qlK2zhK7stVSW1rm+bGOdxyN28jjGM/t2tt38=; b=Y1QZp9NnxAzZHfDAWoPd5FlUBy/0hgpAg/cSPyltDdn9dydPJZ7ZUtYeE3aEFvQQX0 ryV6J35ZB+OUYMGP238iqyfXHij2QN5cwhVOLIdA/GE8m/J+hWwivgIxs9SuiMcqUbHt jNAJ27i6RhV3IOK2PoZC46CwRyNdUHJDkN4O0IjoU6xMqlPfc2emkAgxl+soW8sryTwE 71+fyycELJZdmCvUSRr55NMG+WFpPCJ0d4Z4AudElVnQ2DBNUHhStCj5CegOb0z4Xbzq 0r8dmu1ptbmkLfIRjZpa4Up/krzx8JiVZCdDPgdGyF4KLIHx/q8HTDVIjCZN7q02VwBe AhhA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWC6HvWxAUZZMFRmKAIFfw4YMNyCT16qBFPXk+guMWmO8eluTlZ t4+mnx6Mfrr1PcHfl5bBqwK+EKPLW5AQtcJdPRM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqytAxnE7pP5uR1df8wnPkuGf5/JRK4Q7wS83TNrHF1VFdXUYxtFlINfCmxQWy5QuWQs2okualagjrcsKNZiBww= X-Received: by 2002:a02:bb08:: with SMTP id y8mr26847852jan.51.1562665993041; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:53:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <156259372138.1051.8615205410511124401.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: tirumal reddy Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 15:23:00 +0530 Message-ID: To: Eliot Lear Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006afc09058d3c87fc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 09:53:16 -0000 --0000000000006afc09058d3c87fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Eliot, glad to present the draft. -Tiru On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 20:02, Eliot Lear wrote: > I think this is a pretty cool idea. You should talk about it if you can > make the side meeting, or otherwise if you can get time at opsawg. > > Eliot > > On 8 Jul 2019, at 16:03, tirumal reddy wrote: > > This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 > discusses Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS > profile on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to notice abnormal DTLS or > TLS usage, which has been a strong indicator of other software running on > the endpoint, typically malware. > > Comments, suggestions, and questions are more than welcome. > > Cheers, > -Tiru > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18 > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > To: Tirumaleswar Reddy , Dan Wing > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls > Revision: 00 > Title: MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT devices > Document date: 2019-07-08 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls > > > Abstract: > This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to model DTLS > and TLS usage. This allows a network element to notice abnormal DTLS > or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software > running on the endpoint, typically malware. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > -- > Mud mailing list > Mud@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud > > > --0000000000006afc09058d3c87fc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Eliot, glad to present the draft.
-Tiru

On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 20:02, Eliot Lear <<= a href=3D"mailto:lear@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">lear@cisco.com> w= rote:
I thi= nk this is a pretty cool idea.=C2=A0 You should talk about it if you can ma= ke the side meeting, or otherwise if you can get time at opsawg.

Eliot

On 8 Jul 2019, at= 16:03, tirumal reddy <kondtir@gmail.com> wrote:

This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-re= ddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 discusses Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) ext= ension to model (D)TLS profile on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to no= tice abnormal DTLS or TLS usage, which has been a strong indicator of other= software running on the endpoint, typically malware.=C2=A0
=
Comments, suggestions, and questions are more than welcome.

Chee= rs,
-Tiru

---------- Forwarded message ---------
F= rom: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul = 2019 at 19:18
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mu= d-tls-00.txt
To: Tirumaleswar Reddy <kondtir@gmail.com>, Dan Wing <danwing@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT device= s
Document date:=C2=A0 2019-07-08
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-t= ls-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to mode= l DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and TLS usage.=C2=A0 This allows a network element to notice a= bnormal DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0running on the endpoint, typically malware.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--
Mud mailing list
Mud@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud
<= /blockquote>

--0000000000006afc09058d3c87fc-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 03:09:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5ADC1203FC; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:09:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k4O7MJFGp6mE; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8880A120390; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id z3so26945225iog.0; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PKD773QIkIdrevgSbOBwAzLvGCy598u0iw5tFMZdZes=; b=E3tMSQ0hM4CAVsx4tRMzVrGJnwNuu5Vod+oR8ecFVihaJVjvHz583Cei5XfTupMqMb Qj4VinTaaqB5fIjwA6C4Fkdz9sAMV74wUSk5srFvKbmMyW7GlwR3+n53fPQVkBqc4jCH MfAQ0QMxX4MugMo/pU+CSH6XWhXfrkX7vsmOp0zkcwg+tqNS2CKzvtzeIRO9X+KRZEeu q+xvIArw9Kc4ZyPu6lmWUDx0+Czcy/QHsqH8z29JeVl2LoujtUXU7Ok6rXETY0ThLWfZ v8SqB1Spq+8JqE0bI/zu/xJkuBTw9BPQZAswcY3t0jucU5fEYBGm/ba2hCN6n8I7LLa7 ByEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PKD773QIkIdrevgSbOBwAzLvGCy598u0iw5tFMZdZes=; b=FYEOHtUz1DHk3MYizCE685DORt5i4KrhMcN9+vOA6zUadrh5h1UCUzO7+yROTQKEIt 5W5bFbEEwKkBB3ezwBswljtYsSEmvOpxIyJILWK7aGDv57Qn8gFatSC5eSvwkHFQIxXU +WXWLfQ9xSDhrpK3D8EZZsEdWJp9ea4NI+I9tFTlw8fUx4gwGPK6ldW3HyonAcnjgC1H YIDGxtQvezOxdQjBASAphj5DfD8B+AphRAmsmYUVg845zKD3hRaDVbnK4SqqMWzYcnLW JcyT3ibUUprR0aVe64G3DbxKSCoPgYydidNdh3JosJZtCn68YJEokExgGcRV765Mch0N Lv/w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVhhMwVR2S9HdZDAD5hWA+ZKhr6hDuYk6haTgMwUTfNDCcGq+wa JGzv46nn+UEc1fTi73hVlkUFIkMLhut8Fyei+IU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwrIokumQT7AIOrBjfW5E+1MCTY4POXfQRin9NB4CoKH+X52P0uNMyDs03W0aA+fZSnErNIZxalm1e0R27F//c= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:940b:: with SMTP id v11mr8518007ion.69.1562666950790; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 03:09:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: tirumal reddy Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 15:38:59 +0530 Message-ID: To: Qin Wu Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008110da058d3cc006" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 10:09:14 -0000 --0000000000008110da058d3cc006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Qin, Please see inline On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 08:30, Qin Wu wrote: > Interesting work, three questions: > > 1. Can the IoT device (D)TLS profile be disclosed to malicious agen= t or IoT device? If not, how do you prevent these sensitive information lea= king? > > It is not sensitive information, on-path network devices can inspect or monitor the TLS handshake without acting as a TLS proxy. In TLS 1.3, ClientHello message is not encrypted and few parameters in the ServerHello message are still visible (such as the chosen cipher). > 2. Do you frequently update DTLS profile disclosed to IoT device to= prevent malicious agent from snooping? > > No, Malware frequently uses its own libraries (SSL config) for its activities, and malware developers will have to develop malicious agents per IoT device type, manufacturer and model (which will be several thousands and practically not possible). > 3. How does enterprise firewal use DTLS profile to detect malicious= flow or legitimate flow? > > If (D)TLS session from the IoT device violates MUD (D)TLS profile, firewall detects the flow is malicious and blocks it. As you may know, Enterprise firewalls inspect TLS handshake and are capable of acting as a (D)TLS proxy (please see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-camwinget-tls-use-cases-05). Cheers, -Tiru -Qin > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] *= =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *tirumal reddy > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=888=E6=97=A5= 22:03 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* opsawg@ietf.org; mud@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* [OPSAWG] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > > > > This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 > discusses Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS > profile on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to notice abnormal DTLS or > TLS usage, which has been a strong indicator of other software running on > the endpoint, typically malware. > > > Comments, suggestions, and questions are more than welcome. > > Cheers, > -Tiru > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18 > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > To: Tirumaleswar Reddy , Dan Wing > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls > Revision: 00 > Title: MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT devices > Document date: 2019-07-08 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls > > > Abstract: > This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to model DTLS > and TLS usage. This allows a network element to notice abnormal DTLS > or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software > running on the endpoint, typically malware. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > --0000000000008110da058d3cc006 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Qin,

Please see inline
On = Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 08:30, Qin Wu <= bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:

Interesting work, three que= stions:

1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can the I=
oT device (D)TLS profile be disclosed to malicious agent or IoT device? If =
not, how do you prevent these sensitive information leaking?
It is not sensitive information, on-path networ= k devices can inspect or monitor the TLS handshake without acting as a TLS = proxy. In TLS 1.3,=C2=A0ClientHello message is not encrypted and few parame= ters in the ServerHello message are still visible (such as the chosen ciphe= r).
=C2=A0
2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do you fr=
equently update DTLS profile disclosed to IoT device to prevent malicious a=
gent from snooping?
No, Malware f= requently uses its own libraries (SSL config) for its activities, and malwa= re developers will have to develop malicious agents per IoT device type, ma= nufacturer and model (which will be several thousands and practically not p= ossible).=C2=A0
<= /pre> 
3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 How does =
enterprise firewal use DTLS profile to detect malicious flow or legitimate =
flow?
If (D)TLS session from the= IoT device violates MUD (D)TLS profile, firewall detects the flow is malic= ious and blocks it. As you may know, Enterprise firewalls inspect TLS hands= hake and are capable of acting as a (D)TLS proxy (please see=C2=A0https://t= ools.ietf.org/html/draft-camwinget-tls-use-cases-05).=C2=A0
<= br>
Cheers,
-Tiru

-Qin

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [= mailto:opsawg-= bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 tirumal reddy
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=888=E6=97=A5 22:03
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: opsaw= g@ietf.org; mud@ietf.= org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tl= s-00.txt

=C2=A0

This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00 di= scusses Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) extension to model (D)TLS prof= ile on IoT devices. This allows a firewall to notice abnormal DTLS or TLS usage, which has been a strong indicator of other sof= tware running on the endpoint, typically malware.=C2=A0


Comments, suggestions, and questions are more than welcome.

Cheers,
-Tiru

=C2=A0

---------- Forwarded message --= -------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 19:18
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
To: Tirumaleswar Reddy <kondtir@gmail.com>, Dan Wing <danwing@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUD (D)TLS profiles for IoT device= s
Document date:=C2=A0 2019-07-08
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker= .ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.= ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-opswg-mud-tls


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This memo extends Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) to mode= l DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and TLS usage.=C2=A0 This allows a network element to notice a= bnormal DTLS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0or TLS usage which has been strong indicator of other software=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0running on the endpoint, typically malware.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--0000000000008110da058d3cc006-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 07:42:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5F9120476; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:42:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FMRYd3dqy1Hl; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5314A120438; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4323808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CFA5BE; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:41:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 14:42:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. I have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined (I really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) that the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to learn what went on. This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we have APIs, we can inform device as well. Is this on anyone's radar? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0kp7YACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVfGQgAshsJZLknCa1KT1bCVy8JMaU3h0aXlhpxTbNQPuqRn7Cs0FEKCAvSl2p1 XuCHDdp0GGM4gBjbovauCaTX6UMcKHsFiMWSIflbdBnjuQZ41u4AmN5+7uNVzwyD fIMWhNQMp6+E2ikxfwFz9SR/HiNsIlmKPQDDa4o83OqgJHWy9NRO2YWTVzrkMw3c NeySMvNxwa5Hzwal4dWv8OAgYsT5z2cDo9WI6wsk8aUb9Ac89+RZl1JVjeMmlXjm S2aaVzGM1RIvnIrsFbQYupg/HP2F2P0vKUHNBKASoJYv6fu595eqDHYzKktBsbDx dZ44Ak1NefKNZAbvec9DWgjfGzFocA== =pFHc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 07:54:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BFD120165; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:54:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KbrG76NsrjAW; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DCE612016A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 07:54:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1819; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1562684048; x=1563893648; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=pX7SE1Yy28cTJo69wsR84zkvGex97mjQdAogoJWaVKE=; b=WAqqMNKchzkEtnQhEXCEDnStnHlUUtlDvPmktR4lTMO1RYtmOboq1JW7 Vsl/mMOQ2X42YuHPB/Nu/Q2CF853A+RjCy2zK6kyfa1ZUGS91C6pnigcR iobJf/Bc9bWEbdqThrq8p9Xigh7+zplkszigPsSiBel+iEZHqTUJ9wYlB 0=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AWAACXqSRd/xbLJq1mGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBVgIBAQEBCwGCFmpSIBIohByIe4tzmm8CBwEBAQkDAQEvAQG?= =?us-ascii?q?BS4J1AoJmNwYOAQMBAQQBAQIBBW2FSIVKAQEBAQIBI1YFCwsYKgICVwYTgyI?= =?us-ascii?q?BgXsPq3OBMoVHhF0QgTQBgVCKJYF/gTgfgkw+h04ygiYElGaVbAmCGYIfgQy?= =?us-ascii?q?EbYttG4IslVShZIMKAgQGBQIVgWYigVgzGggbFWUBgkE+kEk9AzCQBAEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,470,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="14118064" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 09 Jul 2019 14:54:05 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-105-202.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-105-202.cisco.com [10.61.105.202]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x69Es56w016592 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:54:05 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6DD4917D-FC86-4217-A788-C0367EA1BB1C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:54:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4486.1562683318@localhost> Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.105.202, dhcp-10-61-105-202.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 14:54:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6DD4917D-FC86-4217-A788-C0367EA1BB1C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a flow = that will work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? Eliot > On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. > I have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD > profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. >=20 > Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined > (I really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) > that the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device = to > learn what went on. >=20 > This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most = enterprise > NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I assume, = involved > forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we have APIs, we can = inform > device as well. >=20 > Is this on anyone's radar? >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_6DD4917D-FC86-4217-A788-C0367EA1BB1C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXSSqjAAKCRBugA9nE248 uL/sAJ9FcwIHbPZOOmRd15FQFxsy5l9OzgCgkVGhWAXynktZWlHLnTLVwpXJgOE= =MOwf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6DD4917D-FC86-4217-A788-C0367EA1BB1C-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 08:15:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F4D12027B; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 08:15:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at 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guelah.shrubbery.net (Postfix, from userid 7053) id DFAA61DA4; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 15:49:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 15:49:33 +0000 From: john heasley To: opsawg@ietf.org Cc: OpsAWG Chairs Message-ID: <20190709154933.GA72906@shrubbery.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:49:40 -0000 > This document was presented in Prague. The authors have addressed all the comments and believe it's ready for further working group discussion. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 > > This email starts a two weeks poll for adoption. > > If you support adopting this document please say so, and please give an indication of why you think it is important. Also please say if you will be willing to review and help the draft. I support adoption. As with RADIUS, a model is necessary to configure Tacacs+ servers on Tacacs+ client devices. From nobody Tue Jul 9 11:39:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A64D120A1E; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:39:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RFmnVk7byNww; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 029C9120A3A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E57313808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AC05D0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:38:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear cc: "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 18:39:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eliot Lear wrote: > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a flow= that will > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated "VLAN". I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it's a "MAC-address VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing. It's really just a layer-2 ACL. {We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets, nor can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based" VLAN, because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged switches might be on the port anyway. One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone} Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category, all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-acces= s/) would go into a captive portal system. Such a system would, according to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, it can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a timer goes off. (%) This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, whi= ch https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can deliver via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson >> wrote: >> >> Signed PGP part >> >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. I >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD >> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. >> >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined (I >> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) that >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to >> learn what went on. >> >> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we ha= ve >> APIs, we can inform device as well. >> >> Is this on anyone's radar? >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >> >> >> >> >> =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0k30EACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVCFgf9HXMbqXU95/TvL9H3KN0m/fWasiZPiknBzfW9W+6oNb+6Rve99Sxk4wbu EmeK2AgJp7NkrPJHcMj8UohCAY3od3synNvUH7RnxoKJnbKCFM6BsN2ZWFqsG5M0 NuZ0e86VAAfBMhpuH5re7ilqY0pWkSCfKT+1UURGHk0cjaKy7/Uo4J2D6L1KmdW2 pEJYzp3cdh/JYcpZRcbMobeZlOy5kTftTZ94w8OnAZRbv9hBw3xoJW+bN2UU6sy+ GIGV9IIHJx9/K+doe8LporjdZV3IrcruokuU8kMK0T+V0KiugUyXoisQbKKjakpE MM6cSxkL33eChPtH2lv1zFTdT4V2Bg== =8Zjt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 11:41:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F18B120A5B; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:41:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZFG6u4iTe67u; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA5C0120A51; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887973808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44DC5D0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:41:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: captive-portals@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal (fwd) Michael Richardson: putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 18:41:38 -0000 --===-=-= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="==-=-=" --==-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Again, a WG whose ML is not the WG name, and there is no alias. ARGH. Here are some emails that didn't get to captive-portals@ietf.org. Sorry for the duplication for others. --==-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=2966 Content-Description: forwarded message From: Michael Richardson To: "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org Subject: putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0;<'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. I have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined (I really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) that the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to learn what went on. This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we have APIs, we can inform device as well. Is this on anyone's radar? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0kp7YACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVfGQgAshsJZLknCa1KT1bCVy8JMaU3h0aXlhpxTbNQPuqRn7Cs0FEKCAvSl2p1 XuCHDdp0GGM4gBjbovauCaTX6UMcKHsFiMWSIflbdBnjuQZ41u4AmN5+7uNVzwyD fIMWhNQMp6+E2ikxfwFz9SR/HiNsIlmKPQDDa4o83OqgJHWy9NRO2YWTVzrkMw3c NeySMvNxwa5Hzwal4dWv8OAgYsT5z2cDo9WI6wsk8aUb9Ac89+RZl1JVjeMmlXjm S2aaVzGM1RIvnIrsFbQYupg/HP2F2P0vKUHNBKASoJYv6fu595eqDHYzKktBsbDx dZ44Ak1NefKNZAbvec9DWgjfGzFocA== =pFHc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- --==-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=2978 Content-Description: forwarded message From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear cc: "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal In-Reply-To: <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0;<'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eliot Lear wrote: > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a flow= that will > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated "VLAN". I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it's a "MAC-address VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing. It's really just a layer-2 ACL. {We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets, nor can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based" VLAN, because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged switches might be on the port anyway. One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone} Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category, all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-acces= s/) would go into a captive portal system. Such a system would, according to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, it can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a timer goes off. (%) This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, whi= ch https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can deliver via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson >> wrote: >> >> Signed PGP part >> >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. I >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD >> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. >> >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined (I >> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) that >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to >> learn what went on. >> >> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we ha= ve >> APIs, we can inform device as well. >> >> Is this on anyone's radar? >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >> >> >> >> >> =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0k30EACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVCFgf9HXMbqXU95/TvL9H3KN0m/fWasiZPiknBzfW9W+6oNb+6Rve99Sxk4wbu EmeK2AgJp7NkrPJHcMj8UohCAY3od3synNvUH7RnxoKJnbKCFM6BsN2ZWFqsG5M0 NuZ0e86VAAfBMhpuH5re7ilqY0pWkSCfKT+1UURGHk0cjaKy7/Uo4J2D6L1KmdW2 pEJYzp3cdh/JYcpZRcbMobeZlOy5kTftTZ94w8OnAZRbv9hBw3xoJW+bN2UU6sy+ GIGV9IIHJx9/K+doe8LporjdZV3IrcruokuU8kMK0T+V0KiugUyXoisQbKKjakpE MM6cSxkL33eChPtH2lv1zFTdT4V2Bg== =8Zjt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- --==-=-= Content-Type: text/plain -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --==-=-=-- --===-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0k39IACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUt7ggAgtXKlL/AdI86uOdbGYo8CDEVKCp91uZPx1biyL7TgecvAfVcKQ8o4CQx me1fsw7BzttGdxEOCbl+i80W/NC2oGu2ZKWJ0cRyXXdAfnW6xqXzJuhycrtkWUlF /N9iD7n8TveHwApksLpjZVyqsqj9efDlGRxgWjxtkqQXFphN45nVulDnVxBxw1GK UQttxaCM2YCG329NLYB0cjGHyPmm3FCVNcAO/8Ap82jE34GZO8IxCQZQtBweAmG/ jbDhx0oCPW/+AK+cVhlEJLDuaKHFVv4vMf8b8Xr3aanlAhLMcFEzJxoEey/bBLtK Rs9qeehNRVKicR2Kf34Gl7JSHrBe6g== =0Bmg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --===-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 11:52:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51026120AD3; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CsecRfnD0lbs; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88DDC120AB5; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3398; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1562698349; x=1563907949; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=hFEByi7QRzay1zhP9A6ajkGn5me3qf5ObSZJajw7kN8=; b=MC04zu7Yz3+lZjS0HTKR/Fr8YI6n4AySEgh31t/vUYFDBKz4eEUw9NVA PMb034SFfbUgGs9ouTfAg1JupcxxpWyugEock3r5D58gFjAZgcfPxVjCy Kk3XF77WtpNPfNBtuXSbzx29VD5iRj89cTZF9yUgRNZaj7Je6Vr+FIOyZ k=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAAD64SRd/xbLJq1mGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUwQBAQEBAQsBghZqUjIohByIHF+LTyWYdIF7AgcBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?JAwEBIwwBAYFLgnUCgmY0CQ4BAwEBBAEBAgEFbYU8DIVKAQEBAQIBI1YFCws?= =?us-ascii?q?SBioCAkkOBhODIgGBew8PrFWBMoRGQUCEXgoGgTQBgVCKJYF/gREnDBOCTD6?= =?us-ascii?q?CYQIDAYRnMoImBIxKiByVbAmCGYIfgQyDK4FCi20UB4IslVSUcYxzgwoCBAY?= =?us-ascii?q?FAhWBUDiBWDMaCBsVZQGCQT6LCIVBPQMwj1gBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,471,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="14123268" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 09 Jul 2019 18:52:27 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-102-2.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-102-2.cisco.com [10.61.102.2]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x69IqPBV027822 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:52:26 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_83F63F30-421B-40DD-B387-6592867E8E25"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 20:52:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <27334.1562697538@localhost> Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.102.2, dhcp-10-61-102-2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 18:52:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_83F63F30-421B-40DD-B387-6592867E8E25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 It=E2=80=99s the following part that I=E2=80=99m thinking about: > On 9 Jul 2019, at 20:38, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Such a system would, according to > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ > receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. > (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a > URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) >=20 > Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the > appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? >=20 > Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API > described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ > to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which = point, it > can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot = if a > timer goes off. (%) >=20 You are suggesting that a device self-remediate. Some devices may be = able to eventually do that, but I have my doubts. Were I a hacker, I = would have the device pretend to do just that. And so this ties = somewhat to RATS. I think a MUD extension might be able to help in as = much as one could imagine a =E2=80=9Cremediation=E2=80=9D = recommendation. Eliot > This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end = point, which > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can = deliver > via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. >=20 >=20 >>> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Signed PGP part >>>=20 >>> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. = I >>> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD >>> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. >>>=20 >>> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined = (I >>> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) that >>> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to >>> learn what went on. >>>=20 >>> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most >>> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I >>> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we = have >>> APIs, we can inform device as well. >>>=20 >>> Is this on anyone's radar? >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >>> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_83F63F30-421B-40DD-B387-6592867E8E25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXSTiaQAKCRBugA9nE248 uMHIAKDUcRacYBgbWRZhQ5d0clIC/SXP6ACg5cAWlKZqPtw273AD/Mp4sMmk5Qg= =CmVm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_83F63F30-421B-40DD-B387-6592867E8E25-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 12:46:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A031206AC; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 12:46:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E-mWnIOCuZxw; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 12:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2293C12068C; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 12:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC046FC; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id M3AXkV3-XxEd; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4DA20128; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id jZloRrSN_9mu; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC74E20129; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:14 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id A3498300AB1A6A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:46:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Michael Richardson CC: Eliot Lear , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , Message-ID: <20190709194614.pbqcbi7dvk75w4ms@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Michael Richardson , Eliot Lear , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <27334.1562697538@localhost> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 19:46:24 -0000 Michael, would an ICMP "administratively prohibited" not be a sufficient signal? Sure, things can be made much more complex, but I doubt that devices will try to actively investigate why they can't communicate (and implement additional protocols for this) if all they can do at the end is to change the color of an led or simply shut-off (i.e., stop assuming its a temporary network issue and reduce/stop probing effort). /js On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 02:38:58PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: > > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a = flow that will > > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? >=20 > Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolat= ed > "VLAN". I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it's a "MAC-addres= s > VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing. It's really just a layer-2 ACL. >=20 > {We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets= , nor > can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based" VLAN, > because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged > switches might be on the port anyway. > One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone} >=20 > Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category, > all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-a= ccess/) > would go into a captive portal system. >=20 > Such a system would, according to > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ > receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. > (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a > URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) >=20 > Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the > appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? >=20 > Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API > described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ > to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point= , it > can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if= a > timer goes off. (%) >=20 > This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point,= which > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can del= iver > via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. >=20 >=20 > >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson > >> wrote: > >> > >> Signed PGP part > >> > >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPOR= T. I > >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's= MUD > >> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. > >> > >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantin= ed (I > >> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) t= hat > >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device = to > >> learn what went on. > >> > >> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most > >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has,= I > >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if w= e have > >> APIs, we can inform device as well. > >> > >> Is this on anyone's radar? > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software W= orks > >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 9 13:13:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5642D12007A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:13:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q300ZOUDJTka; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11B7B12006D; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id k20so45886112ios.10; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:13:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5M+w7LovCm6hcYDPkf71k+gOyQv0IdqrizW2vYtzcs8=; b=rzu+PnzEoBS/qd7p7p17jnL0zDmqJNLHV7Ww9y81fICacncrVByzVtTHFwvVVt5dd9 2lm9H4qS+vgca4rcm5jAp8+hMT/vgMCW6ZnrE/CAGkbN9nV8fNb4o7XrJr7GpDGC0PkO vwF7sWlS3XKOkyxnzAjLiw/wN83eeQxyk1Ng4nyv2i2gLIqWK+2R2PlqDa1cfMAQhP5T R/TDVISs0e5lDLyqRL/tbwOC2KDrU2WK1mFaZ400q0+UK2/mB6IVc9uYaiTrYrzebmMv jrsO1Nxw9t0FHWocz5hFzPtttTApOMJfeR8fEzwbPDHYFgMBByot7tib9VnHIIK8ohV+ 94iQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5M+w7LovCm6hcYDPkf71k+gOyQv0IdqrizW2vYtzcs8=; b=QInsQPBKjtZS5Z489+rYjZBvlekn+Jrbq2GA2h8mTtdYFz33pUwcVlKqQh5mnwhCmL 9cDRHi3/k1E8n4Fzur8lTZanczNMwkmzb/8mMmGnDOOpSPd4di/S8U6LlhHhEjfArIbM osq0AvMJZZy4md4ZKlgBV2rMG6KrLZJlfgdjJxhFU/NHpwmDfHA0dZopYEAlne6vH5tC 4VLhVoDo5Lgzot43tPMkMTwBK6tfvykD0CqDnx00TRXhU5kw85PTD8QZxt0nZfU4O1Oz aCLR7eEDeU/RUjDTBP34qW2nQArCafivWeDJ3XUEaCLg3tzDIxQ52eNaZfmt+7JiwxG3 enrw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVA+791ZgmDSCC1o3aKUYaDD8VKCjMziE0jK3LdfnYJSUM+GNzc Rd7xhGiQVJQrJ594+bW6fT83p6US0g8YgkRij08= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzat/lg3Zzyt7gIDMSmoEKE6sBzWPqNNmKVtlLkbPn0H75lTQfVDetSQCiZ8uMRL+RsCD6TomjyuyqpMg13DLQ= X-Received: by 2002:a02:340d:: with SMTP id x13mr30066336jae.125.1562703222955; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:13:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> In-Reply-To: <27334.1562697538@localhost> From: "M. Ranganathan" Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:13:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: Eliot Lear , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , capport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007f53ed058d4532ca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 20:13:47 -0000 --0000000000007f53ed058d4532ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The current draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ Assumes that the "quarantined device" can access a subset of the ACE's allowed to the "unquarantined" device. However, I can think of a scenario where this does not have to be the case. I'd propose to generalize this. i.e. There are two sets of ACL's - one for normal operation and one for quarantined access. (i.e. quarantine access is not necessarily a subset of regular access). Use case: Under normal circumstances, the device does not need SSH access (port 22 is not open). However, if the device is misbehaving some external agent (or human maybe) logs in and investigates the issue. The fix could involve copying new firmware. Does this make sense? Another thing that is missing currently is how to "clear" the quarantine state at the enforcement point. This would need an API defintion of we want to make that portable. Regards, Ranga On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 2:39 PM Michael Richardson wrote: > > Eliot Lear wrote: > > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a fl= ow that > will > > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? > > Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated > "VLAN". I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it's a "MAC-address > VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing. It's really just a layer-2 ACL. > > {We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets, > nor > can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based" VLAN, > because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged > switches might be on the port anyway. > One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone} > > Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category, > all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-acc= ess/ > ) > would go into a captive portal system. > > Such a system would, according to > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ > receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. > (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a > URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) > > Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the > appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? > > Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API > described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ > to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, = it > can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a > timer goes off. (%) > > This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, > which > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can > deliver > via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. > > > >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson > >> wrote: > >> > >> Signed PGP part > >> > >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. > I > >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's M= UD > >> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. > >> > >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined > (I > >> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) tha= t > >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to > >> learn what went on. > >> > >> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most > >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I > >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we > have > >> APIs, we can inform device as well. > >> > >> Is this on anyone's radar? > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software > Works > >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > -- > Mud mailing list > Mud@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud > --=20 M. Ranganathan --0000000000007f53ed058d4532ca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Assumes that the "quar= antined device" can access a subset of the ACE's allowed to the &q= uot;unquarantined" device.
However, I can think of a scenari= o where this does not have to be the case. I'd propose to generalize th= is.

i.e. There are two sets of ACL's - one for= normal operation and one for quarantined access. (i.e. quarantine access i= s not necessarily a subset of regular access).

Use case:

Under normal circumstances, the device = does not need SSH access (port 22 is not open). However, if the device is m= isbehaving some external agent (or human maybe) logs in and investigates th= e issue.=C2=A0 The fix could involve copying new firmware.

Does this=C2=A0make sense?

Another thing = that is missing currently is how to "clear" the quarantine state = at the enforcement point. This would need an API defintion of we want to ma= ke that portable.

Regards,

Ranga


On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 2:39 PM Michael Richar= dson <mcr+i= etf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

Eliot Lear <lear@cis= co.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work.=C2=A0 C= an you show a flow that will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)?<= br>
Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated "VLAN".=C2=A0 I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it'= s a "MAC-address
VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing.=C2=A0 It's really just a layer-2 ACL.<= br>
{We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets= , nor
can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based&q= uot; VLAN,
because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged<= br> switches might be on the port anyway.
One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone}

Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category,
all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement
https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-access/)
would go into a captive portal system.

Such a system would, according to
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-capport-architecture/
receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed.
(While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a
URI in it at one point, that is not the current design)

Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the
appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIG= HT?

Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API
described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-capport-api/
to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, it=
can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a timer goes off.=C2=A0 (%)

This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, whi= ch
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can deliver
via DHCPv4/v6 or RA.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman= .ca>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Signed PGP part
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking = about CAPPORT.=C2=A0 I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device v= iolates it's MUD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> profile.=C2=A0 There are a bunch of issues around th= is.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device = is quarantined (I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> really think it should be "quaranteed", bu= t that's not a word) that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to= the device to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> learn what went on.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> This is not new, I think that this as been the appro= ach of most
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infec= tion".=C2=A0 This has, I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human= .=C2=A0 But, if we have
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> APIs, we can inform device as well.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Is this on anyone's radar?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> --
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman So= ftware Works
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-



--
Mud mailing list
Mud@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud


--
M. = Ranganathan

<= /div>
--0000000000007f53ed058d4532ca-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 13:17:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821E912007A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 097UFWMFz6mP; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3016812006D; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id m24so36486571ioo.2; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:17:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ndbP5W7bl6Bhdiads/fWhSSSVWrzXxM5wWavxX1razI=; b=lteGNO0psZktOloQM6WpfaXa8Edgy/nx4jSTTYlFHcNoblASM+vVk7s4HvtDdj1zIO h+5ujcqKZjWADiajAco65nCKRIxfAxlZZzJr4yAdtrzirJd4T0r/KcTk5o+mUn549njN pZ9wWz5hfqT44U7zEmYkb9AAZIVyQZHvUKaC2ExRUfgJYCPDnDXXyk/p3cJ4yKUzAX7w QjjT3Q+odwobfgkaNpHw3xUhdUv5jscY7BkL1rBSujkzvX6tPcKiJkleloTj3cWhNzSc 71VS9wQq6/ccxUTEdo0VblROhMlZslj7V4dshqFskQg0Eg+Rd27G2GIzSq9mUkzlk/kb zx0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ndbP5W7bl6Bhdiads/fWhSSSVWrzXxM5wWavxX1razI=; b=mWGBkPcnhOCzmXr9Oz9QvmNmNvcAM1HdMz2h4JnlyAyfbwW0N642Q22sCGsnmSxL9g oIfLBORjE3UWiiIU3jgAVOEbcMYcjQw1J+I57keZY1tZI508XrHwE5kpIpDcWJO6q0I9 RSUZg48CfXpB2BS3CmYK3jODsZbqWrbHpnFH5B1T6Q0tEM0A6Vw1Ovo/y02l/MQptAFj Q7vAc+jRVxat9lgYEfkVVDHDIJ2IlSRRGErpx5C4xSKSkGdD3kYDVcseKjXW1iru9zFZ sPDQt42KAKYUk8JTiqRmH8h6ste+ARR4i7Y318B8sjB98GW2drTm5IGDHRluKToF7NBi CmYg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXYDaVQnErBbP9YTv3bFvaAe2BHTeUYjKtx3KyUzryhrR5D8XD6 T51AKelsZ7QpxaJwgOnin+4u67ZaoxS8Gq9zCwtG7oHWXME= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxWts1wA9VPzp8smFra9D0UOK+z1L0l7TNwP/O+dRzFwJAcE2j9KsSLwF/A58oavk/MqtqWgUVgxyoA9V+K9U0= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9448:: with SMTP id x8mr28851064ior.102.1562703435320; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:17:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> In-Reply-To: From: "M. Ranganathan" Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:16:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: Eliot Lear , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000026dcba058d453f0e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 20:17:19 -0000 --00000000000026dcba058d453f0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 4:13 PM M. Ranganathan wrote: > The current draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api= / > Wrong reference, I meant https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-acces= s/ (sorry for extra email load). Assumes that the "quarantined device" can access a subset of the ACE's > allowed to the "unquarantined" device. > However, I can think of a scenario where this does not have to be the > case. I'd propose to generalize this. > > i.e. There are two sets of ACL's - one for normal operation and one for > quarantined access. (i.e. quarantine access is not necessarily a subset o= f > regular access). > > Use case: > > Under normal circumstances, the device does not need SSH access (port 22 > is not open). However, if the device is misbehaving some external agent (= or > human maybe) logs in and investigates the issue. The fix could involve > copying new firmware. > > Does this make sense? > > Another thing that is missing currently is how to "clear" the quarantine > state at the enforcement point. This would need an API defintion of we wa= nt > to make that portable. > > Regards, > > Ranga > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 2:39 PM Michael Richardson > wrote: > >> >> Eliot Lear wrote: >> > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a f= low that >> will >> > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? >> >> Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolate= d >> "VLAN". I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it's a "MAC-address >> VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing. It's really just a layer-2 ACL. >> >> {We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets, >> nor >> can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based" VLAN, >> because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged >> switches might be on the port anyway. >> One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone} >> >> Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category, >> all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-ac= cess/ >> ) >> would go into a captive portal system. >> >> Such a system would, according to >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ >> receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. >> (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a >> URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) >> >> Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the >> appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? >> >> Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API >> described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ >> to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, >> it >> can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if = a >> timer goes off. (%) >> >> This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, >> which >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can >> deliver >> via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. >> >> >> >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson > > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Signed PGP part >> >> >> >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about >> CAPPORT. I >> >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's >> MUD >> >> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. >> >> >> >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantine= d >> (I >> >> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) th= at >> >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device t= o >> >> learn what went on. >> >> >> >> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most >> >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, = I >> >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we >> have >> >> APIs, we can inform device as well. >> >> >> >> Is this on anyone's radar? >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software >> Works >> >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >> >> >> >> -- >> Mud mailing list >> Mud@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud >> > > > -- > M. Ranganathan > > --=20 M. Ranganathan --00000000000026dcba058d453f0e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 4:13 PM M. Ranganathan <mranga@gmail.com> wro= te:


<= /div>
Wrong reference, I meant


=

(sorry for extra email = load).

Assumes that the "quarantined device"= ; can access a subset of the ACE's allowed to the "unquarantined&q= uot; device.
However, I can think of a scenario where this does n= ot have to be the case. I'd propose to generalize this.

<= /div>
i.e. There are two sets of ACL's - one for normal operation a= nd one for quarantined access. (i.e. quarantine access is not necessarily a= subset of regular access).

Use case:

Under normal circumstances, the device does not need SSH a= ccess (port 22 is not open). However, if the device is misbehaving some ext= ernal agent (or human maybe) logs in and investigates the issue.=C2=A0 The = fix could involve copying new firmware.

Does this= =C2=A0make sense?

Another thing that is missing cu= rrently is how to "clear" the quarantine state at the enforcement= point. This would need an API defintion of we want to make that portable.<= br>

Regards,

Ranga


On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 2:39 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca= > wrote:
=
Eliot Lear <lear@cis= co.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work.=C2=A0 C= an you show a flow that will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)?<= br>
Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated "VLAN".=C2=A0 I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it'= s a "MAC-address
VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing.=C2=A0 It's really just a layer-2 ACL.<= br>
{We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets= , nor
can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based&q= uot; VLAN,
because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged<= br> switches might be on the port anyway.
One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone}

Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category,
all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement
https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-access/)
would go into a captive portal system.

Such a system would, according to
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-capport-architecture/
receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed.
(While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a
URI in it at one point, that is not the current design)

Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the
appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIG= HT?

Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API
described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-capport-api/
to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, it=
can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a timer goes off.=C2=A0 (%)

This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, whi= ch
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can deliver
via DHCPv4/v6 or RA.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman= .ca>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Signed PGP part
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking = about CAPPORT.=C2=A0 I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device v= iolates it's MUD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> profile.=C2=A0 There are a bunch of issues around th= is.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device = is quarantined (I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> really think it should be "quaranteed", bu= t that's not a word) that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to= the device to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> learn what went on.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> This is not new, I think that this as been the appro= ach of most
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infec= tion".=C2=A0 This has, I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human= .=C2=A0 But, if we have
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> APIs, we can inform device as well.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Is this on anyone's radar?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> --
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman So= ftware Works
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-



--
Mud mailing list
Mud@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mud


--
M. Ranganathan

=


--
M.= Ranganathan

=
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--_000_420BE1C3BA844306BD72B7CE9905B659nistgov_-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 17:49:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262F21200CE; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbwBYzHgIqFi; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 938FF1200C4; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64353808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 20:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B33C5BE; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 20:49:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear cc: "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , captive-portal@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:49:29 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eliot Lear wrote: > It=E2=80=99s the following part that I=E2=80=99m thinking about: ... >> to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which po= int, it >> can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot= if a >> timer goes off. (%) > You are suggesting that a device self-remediate. Some devices may be > able to eventually do that, but I have my doubts. Were I a hacker, I > would have the device pretend to do just that. And so this ties > somewhat to RATS. I think a MUD extension might be able to help in as > much as one could imagine a =E2=80=9Cremediation=E2=80=9D recommendat= ion. Yes, so a full attack on the IoT device would do what you describe. A partial attack might miss messing this. A reboot might clear out the malware, or might mitigate it enough (such as going to boot firmware) that would permit new firmware to be loaded. Yes, getting completely out of the quarantine would require either attestation or human intervention. But, if the device now has good firmwar= e, it would be able to send the "please unquarantine me" signal. =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0lNhMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WU12wf/UULW/3tZ3bmXiOiCwAftppacxs1lAmQC8+UdvKWjVMIBV5UeA2qHl+l3 5Jnhi0vnrRv/5REpw+FCRqJXHMiAz0xPf7t69XMjvjF1WwUvdZPWRQdDfBQn6L/4 6RrdlCePkmHT0W2cHT/LJLP8UXCUL1sqzGXs8iD9ji0s6torjKFTIKhWR3h8bLPF j0fLSkSkIoeqyuEdexOIUZu8/kU2RJY3LOGGwEcaszwc3eqcdjOyT7J2ZJvKZ+mP pJWyd/ZLHSEOxf9llYqgb7zos1mGkikNhuYB/OX1bMcC86j7C7pEk8UMtEtHu4ls xphT0AY4kYSqPDI5HXW3F1rI3f8uzg== =6OhK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 17:53:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B41E120251; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MiEnXlVsK-dt; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 628E912029F; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807AE3808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 20:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457275BE; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 20:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear , "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , captive-portals@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20190709194614.pbqcbi7dvk75w4ms@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> <20190709194614.pbqcbi7dvk75w4ms@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:53:11 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > would an ICMP "administratively prohibited" not be a sufficient > signal? Sure, things can be made much more complex, but I doubt that > devices will try to actively investigate why they can't communicate Probably good enough. Some wanted a more specific signal. It's intended to just be a signal to go ask the captive portal API if the device is captive. > (and implement additional protocols for this) if all they can do at > the end is to change the color of an led or simply shut-off (i.e., > stop assuming its a temporary network issue and reduce/stop probing > effort). -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0lNusACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXCvAf+IDwK6e2CRmcF9OnSO9Dbzj0G3nFZy7WMDZtsTqAdVKDAR//xF5ULBYON dSi5c0bDG+WGdy929VGVFgk6GhLoXEgHMbWnOQCF7n4TaaiIufJB3E7XTjiuZrdK xu7NJjAnphyLctZYXFE9WsJKAj1MqZoJ2vxC/tLvSAFgo59o2l/viLazRNszIDAd lhsnMfGAmwCwKoOIThKjR0z4eVUL2QnYRXAa8oTUwIMwQqHZ9jurEA3pNPqFEI1/ cpJqumD56Bn8fdHNs1UNqFQVx7qyd1GYhkylJC0E+KHv5a5PowIURfclMB6hR73a VKx2UEI+lLsNLcjsWSGb4EkA8XypZA== =X51p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 17:58:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290C4120141 for ; 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Tue, 09 Jul 2019 17:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from johns-mbp-3.localdomain ([97.115.131.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e5sm279242pfd.56.2019.07.09.17.58.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Jul 2019 17:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: John Romkey Message-Id: <46656FBE-06E8-4E65-AF61-4BDE2F206F00@romkey.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EABAD983-EB6E-4F93-A1D3-3C6FB9586844" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:58:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: <18178.1562719763@localhost> Cc: Eliot Lear , captive-portal@ietf.org, "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: Michael Richardson References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> <18178.1562719763@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:58:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EABAD983-EB6E-4F93-A1D3-3C6FB9586844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jul 9, 2019, at 5:49 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Eliot Lear wrote: >=20 >>> to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which = point, it >>> can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot = if a >>> timer goes off. (%) >=20 >> You are suggesting that a device self-remediate. Some devices may be >> able to eventually do that, but I have my doubts. Were I a hacker, I >> would have the device pretend to do just that. And so this ties >> somewhat to RATS. I think a MUD extension might be able to help in = as >> much as one could imagine a =E2=80=9Cremediation=E2=80=9D = recommendation. >=20 > Yes, so a full attack on the IoT device would do what you describe. > A partial attack might miss messing this. A reboot might clear out = the > malware, or might mitigate it enough (such as going to boot firmware) = that > would permit new firmware to be loaded. >=20 > Yes, getting completely out of the quarantine would require either > attestation or human intervention. But, if the device now has good = firmware, > it would be able to send the "please unquarantine me" signal. I believe strongly that the only safe thing you can do with a device = that=E2=80=99s been in any way compromised is completely isolate it.It = shouldn=E2=80=99t be able to send an =E2=80=9Cunquarantine=E2=80=9D = signal. You shouldn=E2=80=99t even try to talk to it. Let the firewall which is implementing MUD notify the user about the = problem. Let the device=E2=80=99s app or cloud services notify the user = that the device is offline. Possibly in a later evolution of MUD the = firewall might have a way to notify the device=E2=80=99s cloud service, = but I wouldn=E2=80=99t hamstring the initial version of MUD with an = attempt to do that. - john romkey https;//romkey.com --Apple-Mail=_EABAD983-EB6E-4F93-A1D3-3C6FB9586844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = Jul 9, 2019, at 5:49 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:


Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:

to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At = which point, it
can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware = upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a
timer goes off. =  (%)

You are suggesting that = a device self-remediate.  Some devices may be
able to = eventually do that, but I have my doubts.  Were I a hacker, I
would have the device pretend to do just that.  And so = this ties
somewhat to RATS.  I think a MUD extension = might be able to help in as
much as one could imagine a = =E2=80=9Cremediation=E2=80=9D recommendation.

Yes, so a full attack on the IoT = device would do what you describe.
A partial attack might = miss messing this.  A reboot might clear out the
malware, or might mitigate it enough (such as going to boot = firmware) that
would permit new firmware to be loaded.

Yes, getting completely out of the quarantine = would require either
attestation or human intervention. =  But, if the device now has good firmware,
it would = be able to send the "please unquarantine me" signal.

I= believe strongly that the only safe thing you can do with a device = that=E2=80=99s been in any way compromised is completely isolate it.It = shouldn=E2=80=99t be able to send an =E2=80=9Cunquarantine=E2=80=9D = signal. You shouldn=E2=80=99t even try to talk to it.

Let the firewall which = is implementing MUD notify the user about the problem. Let the = device=E2=80=99s app or cloud services notify the user that the device = is offline. Possibly in a later evolution of MUD the firewall might have = a way to notify the device=E2=80=99s cloud service, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t= hamstring the initial version of MUD with an attempt to do = that.
- john romkey
= https;//romkey.com

= --Apple-Mail=_EABAD983-EB6E-4F93-A1D3-3C6FB9586844-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 18:05:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D94C1200C4; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:05:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yuE763QwAASr; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CCF51200F6; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B8D3808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37E45D0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:05:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Montgomery\, Douglas \(Fed\)" cc: "M. Ranganathan" , "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" , Eliot Lear , captive-portals@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <420BE1C3-BA84-4306-BD72-B7CE9905B659@nist.gov> References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> <420BE1C3-BA84-4306-BD72-B7CE9905B659@nist.gov> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 01:05:06 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Montgomery, Douglas (Fed) wrote: > Most of the devices I think of as actual IoT devices have no direct > UI/shell. Your only interaction with them after initial > =E2=80=9Cinstall/configure=E2=80=9D is through their cloud web servic= e interface. That's true for many devices, but not all. Even light bulbs have output interfaces :-) > Having said that I think your model is fine. Good. > I would suggest detecting device reboot would be one signal to clear > quarantine state. Since MUD =E2=80=9Cmisbehavior=E2=80=9D is mostly = instantaneously > detectable (1 packet), I am not that concerned that the device might > reboot for others reasons and still be infected. Device reboot probably needs an attestation to be believed. > One might keep a counter and a time stamp of quarantine clears and if > you a device had N MUD violations after quarantine clears in X time, > lock it down in quarantine or completely take it off line. Reasonable, but in the space of quality of implementation, I think. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0lOb0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUy2Af/TjU5TjVJOZN1N/Vh90bGxFVgbe0W/bmMkZNrTYq4giKl9iz3cPJEWYdf Q/MnjY0H1LNan3gKfBEO3NFbITeoXFlzw5zApqevYBcWk9D9Z0CW8CsFKzoa1MYf NXD/1ZAjbmX2nt8JsoA7Z2RZsEhg+HZWucq9BopQTaUNDYIT0nt1b7O3k1fi/oxN YbaxYO5X6BzYopByEk5JnMYmhlEyJz5miG2qehvRB4lE4gv/rTR1D1qaaDARZxVg TVDGx3SvqyVMzQiPRJ67bpK/dU2nc63KfvbSjF9uVjgmKQL/MMErJ7Ljb6TzUziJ p+xSuJpiE1PXAkIFPwnVws786LDReA== =Jkny -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 18:16:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8978A12008F; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:16:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lU1pcIyLSn61; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B1AB120048; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05813808A; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D23B5D0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:15:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: John Romkey cc: Eliot Lear , captive-portals@ietf.org, "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "mud\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <46656FBE-06E8-4E65-AF61-4BDE2F206F00@romkey.com> References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> <18178.1562719763@localhost> <46656FBE-06E8-4E65-AF61-4BDE2F206F00@romkey.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 01:16:01 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {my appologies for still getting captive-portal vs captive-portals@ wrong} John Romkey wrote: >> Eliot Lear wrote: >> >>>> to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which = point, it >>>> can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just rebo= ot if a >>>> timer goes off. (%) >> >>> You are suggesting that a device self-remediate. Some devices may = be >>> able to eventually do that, but I have my doubts. Were I a hacker,= I >>> would have the device pretend to do just that. And so this ties >>> somewhat to RATS. I think a MUD extension might be able to help in= as >>> much as one could imagine a =E2=80=9Cremediation=E2=80=9D recommend= ation. >> >> Yes, so a full attack on the IoT device would do what you describe. >> A partial attack might miss messing this. A reboot might clear out = the >> malware, or might mitigate it enough (such as going to boot firmware= ) that >> would permit new firmware to be loaded. >> >> Yes, getting completely out of the quarantine would require either >> attestation or human intervention. But, if the device now has good = firmware, >> it would be able to send the "please unquarantine me" signal. > I believe strongly that the only safe thing you can do with a device > that=E2=80=99s been in any way compromised is completely isolate it.It > shouldn=E2=80=99t be able to send an =E2=80=9Cunquarantine=E2=80=9D s= ignal. You shouldn=E2=80=99t even > try to talk to it. That's a reasonable view. The question is: what next? draft-richardson-shg-un-quarantine-00 tries to discuss this. > Let the firewall which is implementing MUD notify the user about the > problem. Let the device=E2=80=99s app or cloud services notify the us= er that > the device is offline. Possibly in a later evolution of MUD the > firewall might have a way to notify the device=E2=80=99s cloud servic= e, but I > wouldn=E2=80=99t hamstring the initial version of MUD with an attempt= to do > that. I fully expect any notifications out should be done by the firewall. There are two issues I'm trying to address: 1) there will be false positives from use of MUD. Manufacturers will screw up, DNS mappings will be updated out of sync with firmware, etc. If it is too painful to diagnose and fix, then MUD will get disabled by operators (ISPs, who will get the call), or by end users. 2) not every user of a device will get the notifications. So devices with displays (think: thermostats, refridgerators, SIP phon= es, TV sets, etc.) whether they have real malware on them, or false positives should be able to indicate that they are offline. This matters a lot if you are trying to dial 911 on a broken phone, and you aren't the person with the app that gets the notifications from the firewall. Putting them behind the captive-portal API when quarantined lets them get exactly the kind of information they want. It also helps them when they turned on where there really is a captive-portal. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0lPEwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVHLggAhv9AXmBAzHWkMJBU6LwQZG+v9a7kdpKRKsEJE/EdEtF5Y+OkspkPl58s coHh4EqVS0s7a0pJrD3lBvFmZvf6MSyd+PWJZl60jVJU6lWnNaYfd7y0hLXM2UIk fQOt/m8GePVmcwZskZJ/Q0IgSZpnnG2MxYAXKFANLRa/dQkr99pX64ctg8ShVWV4 Xc24joEku4lqEIhS2Vy5Tz76evsm1wgb7+7nvoVA2WdJkTI/io5casZwLign8Rdg 8TTArntZqiNKR/wxUUJg6BxtRm5vUN4q7niGF6Cy0WNT19gX78mmEdpZFrhTQbMZ Vciomg3d8LXybuiq0XWXu+zdHctoqA== =Idwo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jul 10 00:05:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE0D120108; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:05:24 -0700 (PDT) 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(10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:05:16 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:05:14 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:05:14 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , Eliot Lear CC: Qin Wu , Tianran Zhou , "opsawg@ietf.org" , OpsAWG Chairs Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 Thread-Index: AdU24sAA4GsEpuamTYWHaN0Xic9MVQ== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 07:05:14 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 10 Jul 2019 08:14:38 +0000 Received: from [10.61.166.105] ([10.61.166.105]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x6A8EbwB021041 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:14:38 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <2708D89A-90CD-41DE-900D-0BFC8AB5B814@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5E4F39DB-41C2-4810-9A71-D01416EBA89C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:14:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <46656FBE-06E8-4E65-AF61-4BDE2F206F00@romkey.com> Cc: Michael Richardson , captive-portal@ietf.org, "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" To: John Romkey References: <4486.1562683318@localhost> <7534958E-E1A6-470D-B4BB-6B88CD27B54C@cisco.com> <27334.1562697538@localhost> <18178.1562719763@localhost> <46656FBE-06E8-4E65-AF61-4BDE2F206F00@romkey.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.166.105, [10.61.166.105] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:14:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5E4F39DB-41C2-4810-9A71-D01416EBA89C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B69F180E-96CB-48D1-85C9-5922A856905C" --Apple-Mail=_B69F180E-96CB-48D1-85C9-5922A856905C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi John, >=20 > I believe strongly that the only safe thing you can do with a device = that=E2=80=99s been in any way compromised is completely isolate it.It = shouldn=E2=80=99t be able to send an =E2=80=9Cunquarantine=E2=80=9D = signal. You shouldn=E2=80=99t even try to talk to it. >=20 It=E2=80=99s important to tease out the device model here a bit. If the = device is a single processor unit, I can only but agree with you. = However, if there is a TPM/TEE present, things get a bit grayer. It is = possible that even a device with a TEE could have been compromised. = This could have happened through a classic bug in some unprotected code, = like a web server. If code within the TEE is able to detect that it has = been messed with, then it is possible it might want to remediate. It is = then up to the process in the TEE to communicate to some sort of remote = attestation service to demonstrate that the system is in a nominal = state, and up to the RATS server to believe that system or not. But I must say that this would not my first use of MUD ;-) Eliot > Let the firewall which is implementing MUD notify the user about the = problem. Let the device=E2=80=99s app or cloud services notify the user = that the device is offline. Possibly in a later evolution of MUD the = firewall might have a way to notify the device=E2=80=99s cloud service, = but I wouldn=E2=80=99t hamstring the initial version of MUD with an = attempt to do that. > - john romkey > https;//romkey.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B69F180E-96CB-48D1-85C9-5922A856905C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = John,


I believe strongly that = the only safe thing you can do with a device that=E2=80=99s been in any = way compromised is completely isolate it.It shouldn=E2=80=99t be able to = send an =E2=80=9Cunquarantine=E2=80=9D signal. You shouldn=E2=80=99t = even try to talk to it.


It=E2=80= =99s important to tease out the device model here a bit.  If the = device is a single processor unit, I can only but agree with you. =  However, if there is a TPM/TEE present, things get a bit grayer. =  It is possible that even a device with a TEE could have been = compromised.  This could have happened through a classic bug in = some unprotected code, like a web server.  If code within the TEE = is able to detect that it has been messed with, then it is possible it = might want to remediate.  It is then up to the process in the TEE = to communicate to some sort of remote attestation service to demonstrate = that the system is in a nominal state, and up to the RATS server to = believe that system or not.

But I = must say that this would not my first use of MUD ;-)

Eliot


Let the firewall which is = implementing MUD notify the user about the problem. Let the device=E2=80=99= s app or cloud services notify the user that the device is offline. = Possibly in a later evolution of MUD the firewall might have a way to = notify the device=E2=80=99s cloud service, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t = hamstring the initial version of MUD with an attempt to do = that.
- john romkey
= https;//romkey.com


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Lopez" To: "Rokui, Reza (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , Takuya Miyasaka , "netslices@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" CC: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO , =?utf-8?B?Sk9TRSBBTlRPTklPIE9SRE/DkUVaIExVQ0VOQQ==?= Thread-Topic: [Netslices] [DMM] New Version Notification for draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHVN0Zsy5yrbSrPc0mf3dI8JUaY9A== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:39:28 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.b.190609 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com; x-originating-ip: [88.214.163.71] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b804489c-d033-4e55-7228-08d7055d8f4a x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB3PR0602MB3836 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Netslices] [DMM] New Version Notification for draft-rokui-5g-transport-slice-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:40:06 -0000 --_000_FC5E6295ABAD4422A55D232A93C0AABEtelefonicacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCkEgY29sbGVhZ3VlIGluIHRoZSBFVFNJIE5GViBoYXMgcmVtYXJrZWQgdG8gbWUgdGhl IGZhY3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgaGFzIGNyZWF0ZWQgYSBxdWl0ZSBkZXRhaWxlZCBzcGVjLCBy b290ZWQgYXQgdGhlIEFDVE4gaWRlYXMgYXMgd2VsbCwgb24gdGhlIGludGVyZmFjZSB0byBtYW5h Z2UgdHJhbnNwb3J0IGxpbmtzIGFtb25nIHNpdGVzLiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgc3BlYyAoSUZBMDMy 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15.01.1591.008; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 14:59:08 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: Ebben Aries CC: wangzitao , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] New Version Notification for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02.txt Thread-Index: AdU3grojjD/NPzo3R4qeYQzvzWQ3CA== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:59:08 +0000 Message-ID: <056a90c3a97442e08af806fbad643d50@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] New Version Notification for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:59:16 -0000 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Hi all,

 

We recently uploaded a newer version of the iFIT fra= mework draft.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-opsa= wg-ifit-framework/

 

The purposes of the drafts are:

 

  1. Clarify the terms and underlying techniques for data plane on-path te= lemetry
  2. Present a framework that addresses the practic= al implementation and deployment issues
  3. Identify the o= pen issues and directions for related standard development
    4. <= /ol>

     

    Given the wide industry interests on adopting such t= echniques, we believe this informational draft is useful and

    In the scope of OPSAWG.  Please review the draf= t and provide your opinions, suggestions, and comments.

     

    Thank you very much!

     

    Haoyu   

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boundary="Apple-Mail=_D7B04771-B58A-4DAC-89E1-E9B56A2E4E5D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 06:46:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <7CC443D1-5F01-44A4-BA3E-1B2E9E892B80@cisco.com> Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" References: <7CC443D1-5F01-44A4-BA3E-1B2E9E892B80@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.86.240.201, che-vpn-cluster-1-201.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Questions on draft-lear-opsawg-mud-reporter-00 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 10:47:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D7B04771-B58A-4DAC-89E1-E9B56A2E4E5D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 19 Jul 2019, at 16:29, Joe Clarke (jclarke) = wrote: >=20 > Hello, authors. I=E2=80=99ve been reading through the drafts to be = presented at IETF 105, and I just got through this draft. >=20 > I have some questions on the ietf-mud-reporter model. Would this = model be implemented on the MUD controller? Yes. > Would it not make sense for these report nodes to be =E2=80=9Cconfig = false=E2=80=9D as they are mainly used to provide statistics to the = collector. Not sure what you mean. >=20 > I see you=E2=80=99re using a 32-bit int for the drop-count. Would it = not make sense to make this a 64-bit counter instead? Yeah, this number = should be low, but if something goes crazy, having a larger field space = might be useful. It=E2=80=99s a lot of drops. Let=E2=80=99s talk about scaling this = because there are a great many. Eliot >=20 > Joe > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg --Apple-Mail=_D7B04771-B58A-4DAC-89E1-E9B56A2E4E5D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXTLxIwAKCRBugA9nE248 uKDtAKC1PCH381FEdyUmbR6CAKbWp0LOYgCeMcbY5Srck6P+xK9akzpIoDkv6mE= =CT3b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D7B04771-B58A-4DAC-89E1-E9B56A2E4E5D-- From nobody Sat Jul 20 06:24:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3EA120098 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 06:24:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Sat, 20 Jul 2019 08:01:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7CC443D1-5F01-44A4-BA3E-1B2E9E892B80@cisco.com> <253A1C46-3014-41E5-AF4E-BC6383689934@cisco.com> <1C3667D6-23FA-49E8-BEB4-024025846E3F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1C3667D6-23FA-49E8-BEB4-024025846E3F@cisco.com> From: "M. Ranganathan" Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 11:01:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: Joe Clarke Cc: Eliot Lear , opsawg@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f6a2c8058e1e1e90" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Questions on draft-lear-opsawg-mud-reporter-00 X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:01:53 -0000 --000000000000f6a2c8058e1e1e90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 9:24 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) wrote: > > > > On Jul 20, 2019, at 06:46, Eliot Lear wrote: > > > > > > >> > >> I see you=E2=80=99re using a 32-bit int for the drop-count. Would it = not make > sense to make this a 64-bit counter instead? Yeah, this number should be > low, but if something goes crazy, having a larger field space might be > useful. > > > > It=E2=80=99s a lot of drops. Let=E2=80=99s talk about scaling this bec= ause there are a > great many. > > It is, yes. But if you started to see a lot of this, you might be able t= o > identify a compromise. > A relative drop count is probably sufficient to identify issues. For example, if the manufacturer is informed that packets to local network are being dropped (his device wants to send to a locally bound controller) then it probably means that the controller has not been bound. Exact drop counts are probably not required. I think it would be worthwhile to run through a complete scenario (i.e. simulated "malfunctioning" device and diagnostic report) to determine what is actually required to be reported. Ranga > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > --000000000000f6a2c8058e1e1e90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jul 2= 0, 2019, 9:24 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com> wrote:


> On Jul 20, 2019, at 06:46, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote: >
>

>>
>> I see you=E2=80=99re using a 32-bit int for the drop-count.=C2=A0 = Would it not make sense to make this a 64-bit counter instead?=C2=A0 Yeah, = this number should be low, but if something goes crazy, having a larger fie= ld space might be useful.
>
> It=E2=80=99s a lot of drops.=C2=A0 Let=E2=80=99s talk about scaling th= is because there are a great many.

It is, yes.=C2=A0 But if you started to see a lot of this, you might be abl= e to identify a compromise.

A relative = drop count is probably sufficient to identify issues. For example, if the m= anufacturer is informed that packets to local network are being dropped (hi= s device wants to send to a locally bound controller) then it probably mean= s that=C2=A0 the controller has not been bound. Exact drop counts are proba= bly not required.
I think it would be worthwhile to run through a= complete scenario (i.e. simulated "malfunctioning" device and di= agnostic report) to determine what is actually required to be reported.

Ranga



Joe

_______________________________________________
OPSAWG mailing list
OPS= AWG@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg<= /a>
--000000000000f6a2c8058e1e1e90-- From nobody Sat Jul 20 20:34:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 345B81200C4 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:33:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=loon.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lgoeZ-NCUH19 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78D1D12006A for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id j6so34328844ioa.5 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:33:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=loon.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=YVKouiH4IryHPCGvbLhozYilZxCVzqr30tRpJy48F68=; b=L8AIKYprWBT8GAbw3dYd1ZW+9D1joHdcb/QJZ1npWYpfocdXAh/YRqUbTyuL8CTnDb 8kL0rjDfQJkCtlkOTtpQxwWfffrXyXDB2Wt6vXzv5QPEyBuCYWtkg7e6z0ohOKhZR5rZ pb68PSSJED1ELBbCd5kGTqTO2E9KUb0NKafEk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YVKouiH4IryHPCGvbLhozYilZxCVzqr30tRpJy48F68=; b=gCpK8kYPO4nsrw4Y3BKorAFyn9CZM+18PwY9Rbjb1oA2axTdoEzUtvjoUYn4j9ehys zdGOVSpraiyMIMU/Mu8ave/HDXLWF9gCHvovVO3ju2cFc3L7S9zHshHXqYjsDGHrCK4q VCoIf+OPJjMjc73vp2BsPZ0QkSbhmHbYBp7QizE/0RFdTiA+oegQyIA0nVu7w9MK02Lh sHeL6DfM6jkwDUJ4b1hJ+JEXtbXeHKePctEk0yI2QP8rgcUZQM5f5w29BFfL76+qx+kc CsuJNdIIoR3BnZ0f+cBIM0v3MyVAYgMkWh0tYHRtg0MhwGDH4hd4X2iiMK8ZGKPVC45P +tOA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUrNsVenbB1KAOI0M/VNj+SyntEKtMhqxws4MppNPLp3fWJq7XY Tpc9LdlweQ1X+mxNkqsb8ZDxOrSTEMAVsiQaCxYIbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx7WQH3n8air9grurutLZyjmulQroGtyb6Psp83zhcRMIZWN5sUKM+v+JwcFeKOe3+0aXmF2RMg4/G18cgQhzk= X-Received: by 2002:a02:1a86:: with SMTP id 128mr15179903jai.95.1563680036325; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:33:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <27897.1562697682@localhost> In-Reply-To: <27897.1562697682@localhost> Reply-To: ek@loon.com From: Erik Kline Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 23:33:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: captive-portals , opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001be4ce058e28a124" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Captive-portals] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal (fwd) Michael Richardson: putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 03:33:59 -0000 --0000000000001be4ce058e28a124 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most discussion has, co-chair hat off, be circling around some minimal working API mechanism to get things started. That said, one could easily imagine, for example, something as simple as an additional API boolean key, "quarantined": true|false, Perhaps once there's some experience with 7710bis+API implementation... On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 14:41, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Again, a WG whose ML is not the WG name, and there is no alias. ARGH. > Here are some emails that didn't get to captive-portals@ietf.org. > Sorry for the duplication for others. > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Richardson > To: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , > capport@ietf.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 10:41:58 -0400 > Subject: putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal > > Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. > I have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD > profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. > > Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined > (I really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) > that the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to > learn what went on. > > This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most enterpris= e > NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I assume, involved > forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we have APIs, we can inform > device as well. > > Is this on anyone's radar? > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Richardson > To: Eliot Lear > Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "mud@ietf.org" , > capport@ietf.org > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 14:38:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive > portal > > Eliot Lear wrote: > > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work. Can you show a fl= ow that > will > > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)? > > Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated > "VLAN". I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it's a "MAC-address > VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing. It's really just a layer-2 ACL. > > {We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets, > nor > can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based" VLAN, > because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged > switches might be on the port anyway. > One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone} > > Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category, > all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-acc= ess/ > ) > would go into a captive portal system. > > Such a system would, according to > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-architecture/ > receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed. > (While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a > URI in it at one point, that is not the current design) > > Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the > appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIGHT? > > Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API > described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-api/ > to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, = it > can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a > timer goes off. (%) > > This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, > which > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can > deliver > via DHCPv4/v6 or RA. > > > >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson > >> wrote: > >> > >> Signed PGP part > >> > >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT. > I > >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's M= UD > >> profile. There are a bunch of issues around this. > >> > >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined > (I > >> really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a word) tha= t > >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to > >> learn what went on. > >> > >> This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most > >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infection". This has, I > >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human. But, if we > have > >> APIs, we can inform device as well. > >> > >> Is this on anyone's radar? > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software > Works > >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals > --0000000000001be4ce058e28a124 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Most discussion has, co-chair hat off, be circling around = some minimal working API mechanism to get things started.

That said, one could easily imagine, for example, something as simple as= =C2=A0an additional API boolean key,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0= "quarantined": true|false,

Perhaps once= there's some experience with 7710bis+API implementation...
=
On Tue= , 9 Jul 2019 at 14:41, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

Again, a WG whose ML is not the WG name, and there is no alias. ARGH.
Here are some emails that didn't get to captive-portals@ietf.org.
Sorry for the duplication for others.




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Michael R= ichardson <= mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To:=C2=A0"opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "mud@ietf.org" <mud@ietf.org>, capport@ietf.org
Cc:=C2= =A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Tue, 09 Jul 2019 10:41:58 -0400
Subject:= =C2=A0putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal

Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking about CAPPORT.
I have been working on what to do when an IoT device violates it's MUD<= br> profile.=C2=A0 There are a bunch of issues around this.

Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device is quarantined
(I really think it should be "quaranteed", but that's not a w= ord)
that the capport controls and APIs should be available to the device to
learn what went on.

This is not new, I think that this as been the approach of most enterprise<= br> NEA systems upon encountering "infection".=C2=A0 This has, I assu= me, involved
forced HTTP proxies to inform human.=C2=A0 But, if we have APIs, we can inf= orm
device as well.

Is this on anyone's radar?

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-






---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Michael R= ichardson <= mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To:=C2=A0Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Cc:=C2=A0"= opsawg@ietf.org&qu= ot; <opsawg@ietf.or= g>, "mud@ietf= .org" <mud@ie= tf.org>, cappo= rt@ietf.org
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Tue, 09 Jul 2019 14:38:58 -0400=
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [OPSAWG] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a cap= tive portal

Eliot Lear <lear@cis= co.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I=E2=80=99m not quite certain how it would work.=C2=A0 C= an you show a flow that will
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > work for an IoT device (e.g., headless and no display)?<= br>
Device gets quarantined, and the MUD-controller moves it into an isolated "VLAN".=C2=A0 I put air/scare quotes around VLAN, because it'= s a "MAC-address
VLAN", not an 802.1Q thing.=C2=A0 It's really just a layer-2 ACL.<= br>
{We have no way to force the mishaving device into tagging it's packets= , nor
can we force it onto some other ESSID. We can't do a "port-based&q= uot; VLAN,
because wifi has no ports, and we don't really know how many unmanaged<= br> switches might be on the port anyway.
One might map this onto a IEEE 802.1Q VLAN across a backbone}

Instead of just dropping all traffic for a device in this category,
all traffic (other than excepted traffic if you implement
https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-richardson-shg-mud-quarantined-access/)
would go into a captive portal system.

Such a system would, according to
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-ietf-capport-architecture/
receive a message when it initiates connections which are not allowed.
(While the capport WG contemplated an ICMP unreachable message with a
URI in it at one point, that is not the current design)

Actually, I have no idea from reviewing the documentation what the
appropriate "you might be captive" ICMP is now.. THERE IS ONE RIG= HT?

Once the IoT device gets such a message, it can use the API
described at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-capport-api/
to retrieve a JSON object telling it that it is captive. At which point, it=
can flash a LED, or attempt a firmware upgrade, or maybe just reboot if a timer goes off.=C2=A0 (%)

This requires that the IoT device get the captive portal API end point, whi= ch
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis/ can deliver
via DHCPv4/v6 or RA.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> On 9 Jul 2019, at 16:41, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman= .ca>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Signed PGP part
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Between editing drafts yesterday, I got to thinking = about CAPPORT.=C2=A0 I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> have been working on what to do when an IoT device v= iolates it's MUD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> profile.=C2=A0 There are a bunch of issues around th= is.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Yesterday, it occured to me that when such a device = is quarantined (I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> really think it should be "quaranteed", bu= t that's not a word) that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> the capport controls and APIs should be available to= the device to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> learn what went on.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> This is not new, I think that this as been the appro= ach of most
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> enterprise NEA systems upon encountering "infec= tion".=C2=A0 This has, I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> assume, involved forced HTTP proxies to inform human= .=C2=A0 But, if we have
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> APIs, we can inform device as well.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Is this on anyone's radar?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> --
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman So= ftware Works
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-



_______________________________________________
Captive-portals mailing list
Captive-porta= ls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-p= ortals
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Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:41:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: <156383888488.22800.14358083769449691460@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:41:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 23:41:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Secure Device Install Authors : Warren Kumari Colin Doyle Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi-00.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2019-07-22 Abstract: Deploying a new network device often requires that an employee physically travel to a datacenter to perform the initial install and configuration, even in shared datacenters with "smart-hands" type support. In many cases, this could be avoided if there were a standard, secure way to initially provision the devices. This document extends existing auto-install / Zero-Touch Provisioning mechanisms to make the process more secure. [ Ed note: Text inside square brackets ([]) is additional background information, answers to frequently asked questions, general musings, etc. They will be removed before publication. This document is being collaborated on in Github at: https://github.com/wkumari/draft- wkumari-opsawg-sdi. The most recent version of the document, open issues, etc should all be available here. The authors (gratefully) accept pull requests. ] [ Ed note: This document introduces concepts and serves as the basic for discussion - because of this, it is conversational, and would need to be firmed up before being published ] The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 23 09:02:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF5A12012C for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=IXze5OlQ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=0QuqqqeC Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rV0_3C7cKvHP for ; 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Hi WG,
Now we conclude the poll and adopt this document as WG draft. There ar= e reasonable supports. And it relates to the existing tacacs+ work in t= his WG.

Authors,
Please republish draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02 as draft-ietf-opsaw= g-tacacs-yang-00 with only the date and file name changed.
Please also address the questions raised during the poll and report on= the meeting slot.


Cheers,
Tianran and Joe


=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: OPSAWG [opsawg-bounce= s@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Tianran Zhou [zhoutianran@huawei.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C27=C8=D5 15:58
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: opsawg@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: OpsAWG Chairs
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacac= s-yang-02

Hi WG,

 

This document was presented = in Prague. The authors have addressed all the comments and believe it=A1=AF<= /span>s ready for further working group discussion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang= -02

 

 

This email starts a two week= s poll for adoption.

If you support adopting this= document please say so, and please give an indication of why you think it = is important. Also please say if you will be willing to review and help the= draft.

If you do not support adopti= ng this document as a starting point for work on this topic, please say why= ..

This poll will run until 22n= d July.

 

Regards,

Tianran & Joe

 

--_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21BEED1CA6NKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Tue Jul 23 15:43:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietf.org Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74854120915; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:43:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: <156392182041.27898.1294815847576609431@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:43:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-yang-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:43:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operations and Management Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Yang data model for TACACS+ Authors : Guangying Zheng Michael Wang Bo Wu Filename : draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-yang-00.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2019-07-23 Abstract: This document defines a YANG modules that augment the System data model defined in the RFC 7317 with TACACS+ client model. The data model of Terminal Access Controller Access Control System Plus (TACACS+) client allows the configuration of TACACS+ servers for centralized Authentication, Authorization and Accounting. The YANG modules in this document conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in RFC 8342. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-yang-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-yang-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 23 17:03:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B45120995; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:03:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a6iGpyu56X5u; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [IPv6:2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:de77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FA6F120991; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:6e88:14ff:fe34:93bc]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 558411F47F; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:03:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id B2D951BBF; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:03:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: ek@loon.com cc: captive-portals , opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org In-reply-to: References: <27897.1562697682@localhost> Comments: In-reply-to Erik Kline message dated "Sat, 20 Jul 2019 23:33:44 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:03:49 -0400 Message-ID: <7357.1563926629@dooku.sandelman.ca> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Captive-portals] putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal (fwd) Michael Richardson: putting quarantined IoT devices behind a captive portal X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:03:33 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Erik Kline wrote: > Most discussion has, co-chair hat off, be circling around some minimal > working API mechanism to get things started. > That said, one could easily imagine, for example, something as simple > as an additional API boolean key, > "quarantined": true|false, I think that I want to implement exactly this then. This means providing the API info in the DHCPv4 to all devices, but for many devices, even though there is no restriction at all.=20 A concern that was recently raised is attackers that might attempt to impersonate other devices (same L2/L3 address), and do things to trigger quarantine. Once you train the users to unquarantine without thinking... =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAl03oGUACgkQlUzhVv38 QpDTUwgAiNwG4V2jzQpgAYxvl8vV0WilqX5eUUCIMQW2VqEqSq27gdlDMp8Dak0U cgAaIQ91v70VeiPo3qIbArDbymdp6jXKQxvXbuy6D7md98O+Dj9k6CAoPhwQmh2u ZdjlOSBidt/0Pu0RPHYskN2b65uB2kkLqRjPcMYp5+GOueFe1QhlJM62Lb72qdXT hOnWgX07mpyLWFG0yCedXRlgSlIuHqIe4sP68+YiMo/gMzaqhr4HagvdkclisZMv FGjQn1XCRKg+8O7Pr1Tq1OcFJjRqm2YSJrMhBOp7WTTv/I7DaJdcRQKuO+6eNnWJ vResXFkagg38tUbmpvdzrQTS5qjSJw== =4iTu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jul 29 14:44:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE18012004E; 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Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:44:34 +0000 From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" To: "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "ops-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: The future of MUD work Thread-Index: AQHVRlbPrb/gBFzWgUCiRS19hwxsbQ== Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:44:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jclarke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [70.231.19.155] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b2f7a1f6-746f-48eb-f360-08d7146df26a x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:CH2PR11MB4407; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR11MB4407: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 01136D2D90 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(396003)(136003)(346002)(376002)(39860400002)(366004)(189003)(199004)(8936002)(316002)(8676002)(86362001)(2351001)(186003)(68736007)(99286004)(486006)(256004)(476003)(478600001)(14444005)(2501003)(2616005)(4326008)(66946007)(6506007)(14454004)(6486002)(71190400001)(305945005)(71200400001)(3846002)(4744005)(6116002)(26005)(91956017)(36756003)(450100002)(66446008)(66556008)(2906002)(66476007)(102836004)(64756008)(53936002)(76116006)(6512007)(1730700003)(5640700003)(6436002)(66066001)(7736002)(5660300002)(33656002)(6916009)(25786009)(81166006)(81156014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:CH2PR11MB4407; H:CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: em/Wy0B1zXul+w+C/a9YA4l85XzzPATlKOOxvh3k4O/58SKkDNc+UYMcXc2X4UgsQnRQK3JUXB59fUDx8YslGcnVNyODOu7/5HOkzUEF6pZBdKBxMDb9TKkp/+GURP393bJWBpyj0hUv2EcpAnAEYgcqcbJ8WZ3iEsfZX5ha5jxLgHGDsnOcUtJC80S2HRJU25XtDW+mRZLnNSqfpBJXtPvK+5o5Q/xUtWLSIdCTEMmB8rlIIX92wnJfVY3qU1TC1SWDm+fItVEBAcTVTFTBlx/O6bJwDdT2dLsO5U7ZqiowBjZjPdFUHNdH9FUf9+8WcTpNLckb1cUkB1gyylIjcrGJwSxIf027KGgM6+MGcl/cr+2j9OY5tp0KNb+4MT82Lc6IogAvBQ4WMva/4bIBPjlrHctbaO9Nox4xbv7KiaM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b2f7a1f6-746f-48eb-f360-08d7146df26a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Jul 2019 21:44:34.5341 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jclarke@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR11MB4407 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [OPSAWG] The future of MUD work X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:44:40 -0000 T3BzQVdHIG1lbWJlcnMgYW5kIG91ciBPcHMgQURzLCBpdCB3YXMgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGluIG9wc2F3 ZyBhdCBJRVRGIDEwNSB0aGF0IHdpdGggdGhlIGFtb3VudCBvZiBNVUQgd29yayBiZWluZyBwcm9w b3NlZCAoYW5kIGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIGhhcHBlbmluZyBvdXRzaWRlIG9mIG9wc2F3ZykgdGhhdCBw ZXJoYXBzIE1VRCBzaG91bGQgZXZvbHZlIGludG8gaXRzIG93biBXRy4gIFNvbWUgY29ucyB0byB0 aGlzIGFwcHJvYWNoZWQgd2VyZSBkaXNjdXNzZWQgKG1heWJlIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHRvbyBoZWF2 eS13ZWlnaHQgd2l0aCBhIGNoYXJ0ZXIsIG1pbGVzdG9uZXMsIGV0Yy4pLiAgSG93ZXZlciwgSSB3 YW50ZWQgdG8gdGFrZSB0aGlzIGNvbnZlcnNhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCBzbyB3ZSBjYW4gY2xv c2Ugb24gaXQgcHVibGljbHkuDQoNClNwZWFraW5nIGFzIFdHIGNvLWNoYWlyLCBJIGFtIGhhcHB5 IHRvIGNvbnRpbnVlIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgdGhlIE1VRCB3b3JrIGluIG9wc2F3ZywgYnV0IEkgd2Fu dCB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgdGhlIFdHIGZlZWxzIGNvbXBlbGxlZCB0byB3b3JrIG9uIGl0OyBhbmQg SSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2Ugc3VyZSB0aGUgZnVsbCBjb21tdW5pdHkgdGhhdCBpcyBpbnRlcmVzdGVk IGluIE1VRCBjYW4gZm9sbG93IGFuZCBkaXNjdXNzIGl0ZW1zIGhlcmUuICBUaGF0IHNhaWQsIGl0 IHdhcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgaW4gMTA1IHRoYXQgcGVyaGFwcyBhIGJpZ2dlciDigJxvbi1ib2FyZGlu Z+KAnSBzZXQgb2Ygd29yayB3b3VsZCBiZSBiZXR0ZXIgc2VydmVkIGluIGl0cyBvd24gV0cuICBJ IHRoaW5rIGlmIHRoZSBzY29wZSBvZiBNVUQgZ3Jvd3MgYmV5b25kIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIGFu ZCBpdHMgZXh0ZW5zaW9ucyAoYXMgd2XigJl2ZSBiZWVuIHNlZWluZyB0aGUgd29yayBwcm9ncmVz cyB0aHVzIGZhcikgaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgYmV0dGVyIHNlcnZlZCBpbiBpdHMgb3duIFdHIHNwYWNl Lg0KDQpUaG91Z2h0cz8NCg0KSm9l From nobody Mon Jul 29 17:15:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAD8120122; 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Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:15:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Joe Clarke \(jclarke\)" , "opsawg\@ietf.org" , "ops-ads\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] The future of MUD work X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 00:15:47 -0000 --==-=-= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for this thread. Joe Clarke (jclarke) wrote: > Speaking as WG co-chair, I am happy to continue to support the MUD wo= rk > in opsawg, but I want to make sure the WG feels compelled to work on > it; and I want to make sure the full community that is interested in > MUD can follow and discuss items here. That said, it was mentioned in > 105 that perhaps a bigger =E2=80=9Con-boarding=E2=80=9D set of work w= ould be better > served in its own WG. I think if the scope of MUD grows beyond the > definition and its extensions (as we=E2=80=99ve been seeing the work = progress > thus far) it might be better served in its own WG space. I think that MUD and MUD extensions is a pretty clear scope. I think that the bigger on-boarding work is too nebulous to scope easily. Perhaps a WG could be created with a name/scope like: Security Operations for Constrained Devices (except that won't be a cool enough acronym) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: Signature =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ --=-=-=-- --==-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0/jC0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWsbggAsm/z3EoboYOcAYXW+ULGl+O5NK661UjzAlHcbniy4j/hJg0KmLoXV2bQ vOH4mUqGu7C0leZFdB324bNsWU0vodt7uCKAEua83T3Mz9rJ0us0gAOsu3UVtxWo nreO7DArgpWuA2vYll13e2qLKb3rPoZ9GKmOPpH705/BmDdhAMnTM0lB2PEME0+A TBGgdMgEdAfPW2VAiwrVUj8cFaoQNklPlmjHmJLEA+hi/m7unrcp+B9PE8fZ5a7e 4nYmWMO0ZBcRkMqKgX08wMK3gO4/Jh4XCNGvuE6J6SpcN32u/cCXr+M/7k+brb9h vlmr9w0Eb4xIzWF1rEGhGZKYM0Mf8Q== =Y+S3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 30 02:09:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF2B120161; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:09:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKEQKiEYZjyK; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADF3B1200F6; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:09:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2929; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1564477755; x=1565687355; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=MdKv+41tynxdeMkMZ32mw/Tw7x8C4MYopfXoxB/PMnw=; b=UYrSlfUDQYXLy4TNG4M5pTlzmVUipokpv9bgPD9lFNhhJm6QLUg8sPn0 AZbJ0ZQqkOF7ugeZPuev8e1UYS5N4D7K3WXTXmolKiPNAsb6WjZ3VaLoV d5x99d5wc3Dhg0SVVGs7i6DHHKjh3YsebcPArs8f3LoaCWC9QsNOI30qv Y=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.64,326,1559520000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="14803827" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 30 Jul 2019 09:09:12 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp114.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp114.cisco.com [10.61.64.114]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x6U99Bpi015617 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:09:12 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <849DED7F-6701-4B26-9645-0B076A224C05@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0150621B-0E73-4608-BA38-57E717CBECA8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:09:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "ops-ads@ietf.org" To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.64.114, ams3-vpn-dhcp114.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] The future of MUD work X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:09:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0150621B-0E73-4608-BA38-57E717CBECA8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Joe, > On 29 Jul 2019, at 23:44, Joe Clarke (jclarke) = wrote: >=20 > OpsAWG members and our Ops ADs, it was discussed in opsawg at IETF 105 = that with the amount of MUD work being proposed (and discussions = happening outside of opsawg) that perhaps MUD should evolve into its own = WG. Some cons to this approached were discussed (maybe it would be too = heavy-weight with a charter, milestones, etc.). However, I wanted to = take this conversation to the list so we can close on it publicly. >=20 > Speaking as WG co-chair, I am happy to continue to support the MUD = work in opsawg, but I want to make sure the WG feels compelled to work = on it; and I want to make sure the full community that is interested in = MUD can follow and discuss items here. That said, it was mentioned in = 105 that perhaps a bigger =E2=80=9Con-boarding=E2=80=9D set of work = would be better served in its own WG. I think if the scope of MUD grows = beyond the definition and its extensions (as we=E2=80=99ve been seeing = the work progress thus far) it might be better served in its own WG = space. >=20 > Thoughts? I think it is probably time for at least one WG to spring from OPSAWG. = We didn=E2=80=99t really complete the agenda at the IETF, and a good = reason of that was MUD. There are at least four active drafts on that = one subject, one of which we didn=E2=80=99t really talk about = (bw-profile). For me it=E2=80=99s a matter of what can reasonably be = coded, tested, and be useful for manufacturers. In as much as we can = bring a bit more focus to manufacturers by offering them more of a venue = for discussion, the additional WG would be welcome. On the other hand, = if we find that we=E2=80=99re not making progress, or if we progress = extensions quickly, we can close the WG and continue the mailing list, = and move back to OPSAWG. I don=E2=80=99t see a MUD working group as a = long term activity (famous last words), but targeted more at producing = the necessary for broader adoption and then going out of business. Eliot >=20 > Joe > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg --Apple-Mail=_0150621B-0E73-4608-BA38-57E717CBECA8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXUAJNgAKCRBugA9nE248 uArcAKCgybpJmqrljcbJVX2BWSqFT0StCACbB2/JYm9FpaAGYOBx0QWYLSjqTQ8= =JavV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0150621B-0E73-4608-BA38-57E717CBECA8-- From nobody Wed Jul 31 01:45:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C28A120118; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ktVQ1ePKaJu2; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13BD61201F8; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:45:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9265; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1564562727; x=1565772327; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=Xgqzfo6jg9TltdJT8HS+dDKr4IMqHj0AQP6TyyTkwTA=; b=JyBENslti0UN29H05QjEOoN9uFAU10EJvoX3P7DZ9uex3sCIDcQJndHl z79dDEQ8yQZX13oDYXD8GrDq0KHUXpL6xZp22RE4Iu+DL6/m+xMA1i7P0 41PcY8bvRrR8O28doSFp536L5Nqc5VDEjVx6rUBkhbRqLd6fKlqgXTOBv c=; X-Files: signature.asc : 195 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.64,329,1559520000"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="14846925" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 31 Jul 2019 08:45:25 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-107-110.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-107-110.cisco.com [10.61.107.110]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x6V8jOqF012018 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:45:25 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DB460E03-43F5-451D-BFC3-591A91EE8F1F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:45:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <849DED7F-6701-4B26-9645-0B076A224C05@cisco.com> Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "ops-ads@ietf.org" , mud@ietf.org To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" References: <849DED7F-6701-4B26-9645-0B076A224C05@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.107.110, dhcp-10-61-107-110.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] The future of MUD work X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:45:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DB460E03-43F5-451D-BFC3-591A91EE8F1F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A5BDDA8B-1942-4347-A379-557A158292EC" --Apple-Mail=_A5BDDA8B-1942-4347-A379-557A158292EC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On the other hand, it shouldn=E2=80=99t just be me. It=E2=80=99d be a = very small working group ;-) If others are interested, they should speak = up. > On 30 Jul 2019, at 11:09, Eliot Lear wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Hi Joe, >=20 >> On 29 Jul 2019, at 23:44, Joe Clarke (jclarke) = wrote: >>=20 >> OpsAWG members and our Ops ADs, it was discussed in opsawg at IETF = 105 that with the amount of MUD work being proposed (and discussions = happening outside of opsawg) that perhaps MUD should evolve into its own = WG. Some cons to this approached were discussed (maybe it would be too = heavy-weight with a charter, milestones, etc.). However, I wanted to = take this conversation to the list so we can close on it publicly. >>=20 >> Speaking as WG co-chair, I am happy to continue to support the MUD = work in opsawg, but I want to make sure the WG feels compelled to work = on it; and I want to make sure the full community that is interested in = MUD can follow and discuss items here. That said, it was mentioned in = 105 that perhaps a bigger =E2=80=9Con-boarding=E2=80=9D set of work = would be better served in its own WG. I think if the scope of MUD grows = beyond the definition and its extensions (as we=E2=80=99ve been seeing = the work progress thus far) it might be better served in its own WG = space. >>=20 >> Thoughts? >=20 > I think it is probably time for at least one WG to spring from OPSAWG. = We didn=E2=80=99t really complete the agenda at the IETF, and a good = reason of that was MUD. There are at least four active drafts on that = one subject, one of which we didn=E2=80=99t really talk about = (bw-profile). For me it=E2=80=99s a matter of what can reasonably be = coded, tested, and be useful for manufacturers. In as much as we can = bring a bit more focus to manufacturers by offering them more of a venue = for discussion, the additional WG would be welcome. On the other hand, = if we find that we=E2=80=99re not making progress, or if we progress = extensions quickly, we can close the WG and continue the mailing list, = and move back to OPSAWG. I don=E2=80=99t see a MUD working group as a = long term activity (famous last words), but targeted more at producing = the necessary for broader adoption and then going out of business. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >>=20 >> Joe >> _______________________________________________ >> OPSAWG mailing list >> OPSAWG@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg = >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_A5BDDA8B-1942-4347-A379-557A158292EC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = the other hand, it shouldn=E2=80=99t just be me.  It=E2=80=99d be a = very small working group ;-) If others are interested, they should speak = up.

On 30 Jul 2019, at 11:09, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> = wrote:

Signed PGP = part
Hi Joe,

On 29 Jul 2019, at = 23:44, Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com> wrote:

OpsAWG members and our Ops ADs, it was discussed in opsawg at = IETF 105 that with the amount of MUD work being proposed (and = discussions happening outside of opsawg) that perhaps MUD should evolve = into its own WG.  Some cons to this approached were discussed = (maybe it would be too heavy-weight with a charter, milestones, etc.). =  However, I wanted to take this conversation to the list so we can = close on it publicly.

Speaking as WG = co-chair, I am happy to continue to support the MUD work in opsawg, but = I want to make sure the WG feels compelled to work on it; and I want to = make sure the full community that is interested in MUD can follow and = discuss items here.  That said, it was mentioned in 105 that = perhaps a bigger =E2=80=9Con-boarding=E2=80=9D set of work would be = better served in its own WG.  I think if the scope of MUD grows = beyond the definition and its extensions (as we=E2=80=99ve been seeing = the work progress thus far) it might be better served in its own WG = space.

Thoughts?

I think it is probably time for = at least one WG to spring from OPSAWG.  We didn=E2=80=99t really = complete the agenda at the IETF, and a good reason of that was MUD. =  There are at least four active drafts on that one subject, one of = which we didn=E2=80=99t really talk about (bw-profile).  For me = it=E2=80=99s a matter of what can reasonably be coded, tested, and be = useful for manufacturers.  In as much as we can bring a bit more = focus to manufacturers by offering them more of a venue for discussion, = the additional WG would be welcome.  On the other hand, if we find = that we=E2=80=99re not making progress, or if we progress extensions = quickly, we can close the WG and continue the mailing list, and move = back to OPSAWG.  I don=E2=80=99t see a MUD working group as a long = term activity (famous last words), but targeted more at producing the = necessary for broader adoption and then going out of business.

Eliot


Joe
_______________________________________________
OPSAWG mailing list
OPSAWG@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg




= --Apple-Mail=_A5BDDA8B-1942-4347-A379-557A158292EC-- --Apple-Mail=_DB460E03-43F5-451D-BFC3-591A91EE8F1F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTgo4LlIIJ5lIBumWpugA9nE248uAUCXUFVIwAKCRBugA9nE248 uB7eAJ0cKvNIe8QlNNYq6czGTzSseZYg2wCgs1Ma/00RPREyaaHIicJy0G9Fc88= =gaAO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_DB460E03-43F5-451D-BFC3-591A91EE8F1F-- From nobody Wed Jul 31 03:14:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BE212008C for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:14:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uld2gkzpNPrA for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x733.google.com (mail-qk1-x733.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::733]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8B9A120033 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x733.google.com with SMTP id s145so48764903qke.7 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:14:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=AnXKg57BlOJEQ6PFxzwyenc3+jBLtDsFufrmxh6GIP0=; b=s8QvICSvvMUIaXS7vl59B+Hcm4Cse9f+pD7JxC5UeGrWz8xsQNLl5WxS3vgwWK7Vzw YG+9AnhwWvk1mdOoC707gWgWjX70Q0MASD3koTZRDRG5QWne2d2r1IEgyaTUJtKhngJG sRDz54cfVEfvmKbfDNq1w0bFiRr14HFXKIsgnsw3GGa762gjMCfZz3Qw8INWvarEHHpN OG2aa+C5SIC6G68j2JLgBent3tN322+Ly8kg+fERf7aWWerdRkAyjefcPI5vOe25ue7x NuHWQXLUs/NRJd6EYBtVqzU9dWOwAMiHW399vR1u8J7u3XCsLc4a4LykM8Z+0yhhDhsl vtiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=AnXKg57BlOJEQ6PFxzwyenc3+jBLtDsFufrmxh6GIP0=; b=C5nujbBALeDqnZWjTFKxpZmjR+VBZ9hhBf1eABrgGEb2oAWpwE3x+iN9c1n+BBRj4W ifoOANR1PDqEFJ3qcXiSoFLYA/frEIZ4UQ13cXuqg0iUzYoUIsOfhm66yd/CfOG5SfYb siDsX4aFmIs65k7q1aaA4jehYTuGUUGZGtF9Q3pane4lsfNXgXGpXLp6Sk2s151b+S/n 263NmsyA/M9ThsaYa7RUGpgjmTT9N+A96xjPvttsrQZUhXznLLLblz8cCrn+TpMKn5uc jKvQmmYx+TaHilN5RWnhZt8RCfACJ/3sO2+ODHYkz4FRH3SJjzz0Ty3ZHIoGEWxDCc2I AQgA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXXQA1FPpkxHk0tyCjTqPj/W5P7yell8/JWkBVyqF346Ub7/LYH LO7lHFSNvaJT1yiP91vyx7D/7w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwNFHvJlTjM8eICSna/SN4bbmOAgho6FG0IXcNtrHdOZdQrM8BKwz9IBuWHmB8N5Ye11KSx8w== X-Received: by 2002:ae9:dfc3:: with SMTP id t186mr76438342qkf.461.1564568078838; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:182:cc01:fc23:c976:18a2:7bd2:d55d? ([2601:182:cc01:fc23:c976:18a2:7bd2:d55d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s7sm28799840qtq.8.2019.07.31.03.14.37 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <19F53DA6-C652-4695-ACB1-12745271A0CB@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6302382F-92B1-4C3E-8C3A-FEC81B63F3C1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 06:14:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "ops-ads@ietf.org" , mud@ietf.org To: Eliot Lear References: <849DED7F-6701-4B26-9645-0B076A224C05@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] The future of MUD work X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:14:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6302382F-92B1-4C3E-8C3A-FEC81B63F3C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jul 31, 2019, at 4:45 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > On the other hand, it shouldn=E2=80=99t just be me. It=E2=80=99d be a = very small working group ;-) If others are interested, they should speak = up. I don=E2=80=99t think I would necessarily initiate work, but I suspect = if there were a MUD WG I would show up for it and review documents. The = fact that MUD is in OPSAWG has meant that I don=E2=80=99t go because = that=E2=80=99s not a WG I normally go to, and I didn=E2=80=99t realize = that was where the MUD work was happening. --Apple-Mail=_6302382F-92B1-4C3E-8C3A-FEC81B63F3C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = Jul 31, 2019, at 4:45 AM, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
On the other hand, it shouldn=E2=80=99t just be me. =  It=E2=80=99d be a very small working group ;-) If others are = interested, they should speak up.

I don=E2=80=99t = think I would necessarily initiate work, but I suspect if there were a = MUD WG I would show up for it and review documents.  The fact that = MUD is in OPSAWG has meant that I don=E2=80=99t go because that=E2=80=99s = not a WG I normally go to, and I didn=E2=80=99t realize that was where = the MUD work was happening.

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Thanks,
Bo
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 11:20
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou = <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; = Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption = poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02
 
A few thoughts on = Eliot=E2=80=99s two questions:
1.       Do we have YANG data model draft developed = by IETF published as informational RFC? I haven=E2=80=99t seen one.
2.       This model uses system management YANG = data model defined in RFC7317 as base model and augment it with TACACS+ = specifics, and RFC7317 is standard track RFC.
3.       Downref is allowed in some circumstance, = See RFC3967 section 2, first two bullets.
4.       TACACS+ protocol has been moved for = publication. Whether or not TACACS++ comes later, TACACS+ will be basis = for any advanced features. So timing is perfect.
 
-Qin
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Tianran Zhou
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 10:35
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Eliot Lear = <lear@cisco.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption = poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02
 
Hi Eliot,
 
Thanks for your = suggestions. Please see inline.
 
Tianran
 
From: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2019 8:13 = PM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Cc: opsawg@ietf.org; OpsAWG Chairs <opsawg-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] WG adoption = poll for draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02
 
Hi Tianran,
 
I have two concerns about this draft.  First is the = intended status of this document.  It currently calls out = draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs as an informational reference.  I think = the question here is really whether this draft should also be = informational.  As a practical matter you really do need to have = implemented the other draft for this one to be implemented.  And = that means that really it should be a normative reference.  But it = would be a downref.  To address this, I suggest just making this = document an informational draft, rather than targeting for standards, = and make the reference normative.
 
[Tianran] Yes, I have = the same concern. You provided a good approach. On the other hand, I = think RFC3967 described this case.
=E2=80=9C2.  The Need for Downward = References
    =E2=80=A6
   o  A = standards document may need to refer to a proprietary protocol,
      and = the IETF normally documents proprietary protocols using
      = informational RFCs.=E2=80=9D
 
In addition, I have another question.  Is there interest = or appetite for creating a standardized and more version of T+?  If = so, is the timing of a standardized YANG model appropriate?
 
[Tianran] I would like = to see how the WG would like to approach.
 
Eliot
 

 

On 7 Jul 2019, at 09:58, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> = wrote:
 
Hi WG,
 
This document was presented in Prague. The = authors have addressed all the comments and believe it=E2=80=99s ready for further = working group discussion.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-opsawg-tacacs-yang-02
 
 
This email starts a two weeks poll for = adoption.
If you support adopting = this document please say so, and please give an indication of why you = think it is important. Also please say if you will be willing to review = and help the draft.
If you do not = support adopting this document as a starting point for work on this = topic, please say why..
This poll will run = until 22nd July.
 
Regards,
Tianran & Joe
 
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