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cotscore=-2147483648 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2006050112 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 15:05:04 -0000 --_000_DM6PR05MB63480144A85175AA35841326AE860DM6PR05MB6348namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. The call = for adoption will end on 6/19/2020. Ron and Jen Juniper Business Use Only --_000_DM6PR05MB63480144A85175AA35841326AE860DM6PR05MB6348namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks,

 

This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. The call for adoption will end on 6/19= /2020.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;      Ron and Jen


Juniper Business= Use Only

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2020 10:18:50 -0000 =0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: OPSEC on behalf of Ron Bonica =0A= Sent: 05 June 2020 16:04=0A= To: OPSEC=0A= Subject: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact=0A= =0A= Folks,=0A= =0A= This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. The call = for adoption will end on 6/19/2020.=0A= =0A= Support=0A= =0A= I would have liked this to be a TLS document but the fact that it is not ma= kes it even more important that it is adopted.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= Ron and Jen=0A= =0A= =0A= Juniper Business Use Only=0A= From nobody Wed Jun 10 05:42:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF193A0598 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:42:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0FyUsp_NWrsU for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7059F3A078A for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id a9so2281760ljn.6 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:42:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QdfDirTwVNBQYHpf/GigYMEdA04IC1w/lj0ONWK20Q4=; b=Dvkerjf/IVHdD1qRaHaynt8+5VKoNz6IPDZ3fvEc1I6XfOIpSjTKy/onhw5iRODbWV nJWull8lz99WVtOo3yD1vp+FLJ6kHsanDTKHDXrcwP9i4agfuJwKnnAU2fk8vzYU0dmN jre2rXYxHzSEyMBeEzUwMJyc+pynB2X3/dLwYyUNse1Zl9smGyPX6MleJk5QtRtQG09y OUuruZII2ayDLyS8Bb0N5zSeZ+kAnRzUDGzFU+cNnaS+UxXBGAqsk6j0M0tY1H8JDwB6 47fi6I27r3lQ/Qsqf/6M4RGM1TZyyLN5Z1ekI5FZ05s+qxx9JUtj7Gjx6cszrd/g1JGr m2cg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QdfDirTwVNBQYHpf/GigYMEdA04IC1w/lj0ONWK20Q4=; b=MLvaDAJWBDzuty1BIa0ViUcmP8jl8PPeX8AE2xRm7HXUHcCPR8BFgVtdf10ToBPDn/ OP1M7Reov4XwjoaOWY+uTiZL/54qwnYs8ZFnG4v+4U1tODfZOOYOJFcgnwmAzba50SZE 9G0sCfN+JhAV3v/QgxJG38JDyySIFkMyDALJG3JW+XL8C0CRGWSBU6etnjFm/Dobg6GF JQoNVsvrQ//CDqmsQfZhxi7WSp9QkkiyrekVpe0CfrMFXpjcGkrYKMODduI82M/Y3fRJ C/TuQZxYxmkPLzXbS2B5GRvtWuEWh2EH9U41yQMICa0hoOZIR9K+pYc77lRG4tXDz332 z4DQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530p7Ki045y5grGMRwKigYtNruyMJifmoip7wYR1y5RmySStd4SN ddncxyN92aRXJWsJW/w8Ph2Z8DyQIi4PCqXby71rHg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx0o+mee0vORw8kuVC79SJRa6ZPIlfhg5NCKxHfGYYEJ7ut/meD34ld2o7/iP0EN9sNzWqsw2HhSLFqvXqVs70= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7105:: with SMTP id m5mr1559716ljc.79.1591792940395; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:42:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 08:41:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: tom petch Cc: Ron Bonica , OPSEC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 12:42:26 -0000 On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 6:18 AM tom petch wrote: > > > > ________________________________________ > From: OPSEC on behalf of Ron Bonica > Sent: 05 June 2020 16:04 > To: OPSEC > Subject: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact > > Folks, > > This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. The call for adoption will end on 6/19/2020. > > Support > > I would have liked this to be a TLS document but the fact that it is not makes it even more important that it is adopted. Actually, that raises an important point -- why is it *not* a TLS document? Are we wading into deep waters here? Did TLS object to this document, or just show no interest, or say "'tis a fine idea, but too operational for here, vaya con dios"? Can this CfA be CCed to the TLS WG so that we get more review? W > > Tom Petch > > Ron and Jen > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > OPSEC mailing list > OPSEC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Wed Jun 10 15:43:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202E63A157F for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 15:43:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5QA5LmHDy12F for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 15:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0EDB3A1581 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 15:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id k22so3184374qtm.6 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 15:43:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5kR3/mPSKbb4FLS4I9C2IX+v54sRCtaewVzDaFKQQJc=; b=crNbv8IdKoDl8LfeGZbcMpMw2TILrqTlS0iHanqSKEvthgY3Sp+RGyTG51gGpLuyuk dNr9ZgfjH6XnFtJpMg+irJGwXC7KiipflLTni78xSrchzaDJY/S0ExO5Kh0SX9ecfWGd +MspksslKejHXVavn4H3knC0i75Rk+ZRNEzIjw6n/o+Wp76S/IH99zQrivasY5hVsqkw ynYcjGEqDwGkZaghAF+X80hl2JOceoxquY4Q3LhMvp+d1ECPEiMQ2jQES5NG0inuwMhM Ou75EI0onrLevEpCFALgvNOuahgdbj6CdPY8PYyjZR/XrvDdibp0iLamWhjrHHtOqD6G D/uA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5kR3/mPSKbb4FLS4I9C2IX+v54sRCtaewVzDaFKQQJc=; b=hgYM4tOulMJ2VqtgABwqCLcM6kGqO5iwTim3uiTAcDb6rwCghTKZ+MeeIQbzIZ1lcP ctycxaCfUbkaYkNtjfvG7xmCCC6wt7v7JuTfiA1PBJREqwQVx7q/T4HBaJ2v3o8qKXci bDB8QfOHDAs49MdLkST9s4JvI3jTzcJOyn6lKwXfZ0g0M7Zp5Apx4cPUrLz1xTkx2Ux5 qIBPN6Y06O+aOtdJECllwYD8Ud2fTrg9xkqaKU/c+gJ22C8ASKNv7/ntU1Sh+K9w9B5Y lUlLmSMiYJv5P23m9+Ik/MeGJRRx2zrLwbqcxUuoSZ1pSWbxFhUUCH6Tc8I909pDbifp Vg9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531m2SLxE54+FgT1/72tFyP9A3mH6dUE8x5ahjlEW5eitSh3loMs W+JJPYAht8s54Ft7V6fOjWxMtknvpkhJAe8FW2c7bA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBywLh/yJnREuAAWsamaj/Ca62dcMOjk58HcvOaNERDPMiccFv7wQa8tiSzNHNvYJkFdzyStDJjsK0AfgCjcM= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1c29:: with SMTP id a38mr5749709qtk.52.1591829011635; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 15:43:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159181529656.16063.6964178024900109434@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <159181529656.16063.6964178024900109434@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Jen Linkova Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:43:20 +1000 Message-ID: To: opsec WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [OPSEC] Fwd: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 22:43:35 -0000 In case you've missed the announcement. NomCom is looking for volunteers. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: NomCom Chair 2020 Date: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:55 AM Subject: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers To: IETF Announcement List Cc: This is the second sending of the call for volunteers for the 2020-2021 Nom= Com. I wanted to mention a few updates from the previous email (sent 2 weeks ago= ): - I've fixed the URL at the bottom of the email to point to https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/ instead of /2019/. This was a test to see if anyone was paying attention. Apparently, some people were. ;) - The IETF 108 registration form includes a checkbox that will let you volunteer. You can use this instead of emailing me, when you register for IETF 108. - I currently have 39 volunteers. Last year had 149. I need more volunteer= s! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ The IETF NomCom appoints people to fill the open slots on the LLC, IETF Trust, the IAB, and the IESG. Ten voting members for the NomCom are selected in a verifiably random way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population. The details of the operation of the NomCom can be found in BCP 10 (RFC 8713). RFC 3797 details the selection algorithm. Special for this year (and only this year), we also have RFC 8788 (one-off update to RFC 8713 / BCP 10) to tell us who is eligible to volunteer: Members of the IETF community must have attended at least three of the last five in-person IETF meetings in order to volunteer. The five meetings are the five most recent in-person meetings that ended prior to the date on which the solicitation for NomCom volunteers was submitted for distribution to the IETF community. Because no IETF 107 in-person meeting was held, for the 2020-2021 Nominating Committee those five meetings are IETFs 102 [Montreal, Canada; July 2018], 103 [Bangkok, Thailand; November 2018], 104 [Prague, Czech Republic; March 2019], 105 [Montreal, Canada; July 2019], and 106 [Singapore; November 2019]. Keep in mind that eligibility is based on in-person attendance at the five listed meetings. You can check your eligibility at: https://www.ietf.org/registration/nomcom.py. If you qualify, please volunteer. Before you decide to volunteer, please remember that anyone appointed to this NomCom will not be considered as a candidate for any of the positions that the 2020 - 2021 NomCom is responsible for filling. People commonly volunteer by ticking the box on IETF registration forms. The IETF 106 form did not ask whether people were willing to volunteer. IETF 107 did ask, but all those registrations were canceled. I have asked the Secretariat if it is possible to get the list if volunteers from canceled IETF 107 registrations. If that list is available, I will contact all who are verified as eligible. But given the uncertainty of this process, I would encourage people to volunteer directly (see the bottom of this email for instructions). Thank you for volunteering! The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2021 IETF meeting, and thus the positions for which this NomCom is responsible, are IETF Trust: Joel Halpern LLC: Maja Andjelkovic IAB: Jari Arkko Jeff Tantsura Mark Nottingham Stephen Farrell Wes Hardaker Zhenbin Li IESG: Alissa Cooper, IETF Chair/GEN AD Alvaro Retana, RTG AD Barry Leiba, ART AD Deborah Brungard, RTG AD =C3=89ric Vyncke, INT AD Magnus Westerlund, TSV AD Roman Danyliw, SEC AD Warren Kumari, OPS AD All appointments are for 2 years. The Routing area has 3 ADs and the General area has 1; all other areas have 2 ADs. Thus, all areas (that have more than one AD) have at least one continuing AD. The primary activity for this NomCom will begin in July 2020 and should be completed in January 2021. The NomCom will have regularly scheduled conference calls to ensure progress. There will be activities to collect requirements from the community, review candidate questionnaires, review feedback from community members about candidates, and talk to candidates. While being a NomCom member does require some time commitment it is also a very rewarding experience. As a member of the NomCom it is very important that you be willing and able to attend either videoconference or in-person meetings (which may not happen) during 14-20 November (IETF 109 - Bangkok) to conduct interviews. Videoconference attendance will be supported whether or not there are in-person meetings. Orientation and setting of the NomCom schedule will be done by videoconference during the week 20-24 July (exact time and date to be determined after NomCom membership is finalized on July 12), the week prior to IETF 108. Being at IETF 110 (Prague) is not essential. Please volunteer by sending me an email before 23:59 UTC June 24, 2020, as follows: To: nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org Subject: NomCom 2020-21 Volunteer Please include the following information in the email body: Your Full Name: // as you write it on the IETF registration form Current Primary Affiliation: // Typically what goes in the Company field // in the IETF Registration Form Emails: // All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings // Preferred email address first Telephone: // For confirmation if selected You should expect an email response from me within 5 business days stating whether or not you are qualified. If you don't receive this response, please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the subject line. If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider that NomCom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership of the IETF. Questions by email or voice are welcome. Volunteering for the NomCom is a great way to contribute to the IETF! You can find a detailed timeline on the NomCom web site at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/ I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process, within the next few weeks. Thank you! Barbara Stark bs7652 at att dot com nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org --=20 SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry From nobody Wed Jun 10 19:31:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6692F3A1645 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 19:31:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=QfVrjOP8; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=PST+9m38 Received: from mail.ietf.org 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 Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha256; boundary="B_3674720742_563337738" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5edb8b7e-3b9f-4963-25c8-08d80dec34fb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jun 2020 09:45:42.4253 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: E/EEXkjTIo82OeGBh+gwOcrVBy3Su1rkaB9eijIUEuavyj7e8Uwsm52HSzyxAt0XE7x+kQcRJrMIALf17Lwa+w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1290 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.11, xch-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 09:45:51 -0000 --B_3674720742_563337738 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3674720742_546561551" --B_3674720742_546561551 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eric, =20 Some minor comments on the draft: =20 4.2 Are we making a difference in a TLS Session client hello really initiat= ed as a new client hello by the proxy on the server side or if , like some p= roxies might do, the client hello from the client side is modified and forwarded? According = to the text it looks like we are assuming that the proxy MUST always initiat= e its own session? =20 4.4 See comment on 4.2 =20 4.8=C2=A0 typo: "updateble""-> updatable" =20 5.3 2nd paragraph. Maybe add a note that this out-of-band handshake is also= giving back visibility into the certificate with TLS 1.3? Would be good to = point this out. =20 =20 Toby =20 =20 From: OPSEC on behalf of "Eric Wang (ejwang)" Date: Friday, 5. June 2020 at 03:30 To: "opsec@ietf.org" Cc: Roelof Du Toit , Andrew Ossipov Subject: [OPSEC] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-wang-opsec-tls-pro= xy-bp-00.txt =20 Dear OPSEC participants,=20 =20 We published a new revision of the TLS-proxy best practice draft for the WG= review. The title was updated with =E2=80=9Copsec=E2=80=9D based on Ron=E2=80=99s suggestion.= It replaces the previous file and contains the same updates to address ear= ly comments from Eric R., Tobias Mayer and others. =20 We would like to thank those reviewers and appreciate more comments and fee= dback on the draft! =20 Best, =20 -Eric (on behalf of the authors) =20 Begin forwarded message: =20 From: Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-00.txt Date: June 4, 2020 at 2:59:38 PM PDT To: Eric Wang , Roelof DuToit , Andrew Ossipov =20 A new version of I-D, draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Eric Wang and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp Revision: 00 Title: TLS Proxy Best Practice Document date: 2020-06-03 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 16 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wang-opsec-tls-p= roxy-bp-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy= -bp/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-0= 0 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-opsec-tls-= proxy-bp Abstract: TLS proxies are widely deployed by organizations to enable security features and apply enterprise policies. This document defines a TLS proxy and discusses a wide range of security requirements to guide TLS proxy implementations. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat =20 --B_3674720742_546561551 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Eric,

 

Some minor comments on the= draft:

 

4.2 Are we making a differenc= e in a TLS Session client hello really initiated as a new client hello by th= e proxy on the server side or if , like some proxies might do,

the client hello from the client side is modified and forwarded? Accordin= g to the text it looks like we are assuming that the proxy MUST always initi= ate its own session?

 

4.4 See comment = on 4.2

 

4.8=C2=A0 typo: "updateble&qu= ot;"-> updatable"

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>5.3 2n= d paragraph. Maybe add a note that this out-of-band handshake is also giving= back visibility into the certificate with TLS 1.3? Would be good to point t= his out.

 

 

=

Toby<= o:p>

 

 

From: OPSEC <opse= c-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Eric Wang (ejwang)" <ejwan= g=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Friday, 5. June 2020 at 03:= 30
To: "opsec@ietf.org" <opsec@ietf.org>
Cc:= Roelof Du Toit <roelof.dutoit@broadcom.com>, Andrew Ossipov <a= ossipov@cisco.com>
Subject: [OPSEC] Fwd: New Version Notificati= on for draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-00.txt

=

 

Dear OPSEC participants,

 <= /p>

We published a n= ew revision of the TLS-proxy best practice draft for the WG review. The titl= e was updated with =E2=80=9Copsec=E2=80=9D based on Ron=E2=80=99s suggestion.  It replace= s the previous file and contains the same updates to address early comments = from Eric R., Tobias Mayer and others.

 

We would like to thank those reviewers a= nd appreciate more comments and feedback on the draft!

<= div>

 

Best,

 

-Eric (on behalf of t= he authors)

 



Begin forwarded me= ssage:

 

Su= bject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-00.txt

Date: June 4, 2020 at 2:59:38 PM PDT<= /o:p>

To: Eric Wang <ejwang@cis= co.com>, Roelof DuToit <roelof.dutoit@broadcom.com>, Andrew Ossipov <aossipov@cisco.com>

 


A new version of I-D, draft-wang-opsec-tls-pr= oxy-bp-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Eric Wang and posted to = the
IETF repository.

Name: draft= -wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp
Revision: 00Title: TLS Proxy Best Practice
Docume= nt date: 2020-06-03
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 16
URL:          = ;  https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wang-opsec-t= ls-proxy-bp-00.txt
Status:        =  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp/
H= tmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wa= ng-opsec-tls-proxy-bp-00
Htmlized:      &nbs= p;https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-opsec-tls-proxy-bp<= br>

Abstract:
  TLS proxies are widely deployed by organ= izations to enable security
  features and apply enterprise pol= icies.  This document defines a TLS
  proxy and discusses = a wide range of security requirements to guide
  TLS proxy impl= ementations.




Please note that it may take a couple of min= utes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

The = IETF Secretariat

 

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Beside the SNI, this also= means that more fields like ALPN in the Client hello are also encrypted in = the future. =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-esni/ =20 3.1.3 , 3.1.4: Correct for TLS 1.3 as it is today. With ECH, this would hav= e additional impact, but I think this is not in scope for this draft as ECH = is not yet standardized. =20 Toby =20 From: OPSEC on behalf of Ron Bonica Date: Friday, 5. June 2020 at 17:05 To: OPSEC Subject: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact =20 Folks, =20 This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. T= he call for adoption will end on 6/19/2020. =20 Ron and Jen =20 Juniper Business Use Only --B_3674721417_494432949 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Support.

 

Some comments that I have o= n this draft:

 

3.1.1=C2=A0 Last paragraph:= =C2=A0 Worth Mentioning that it is currently not only about Encrypted SNI that i= s being discussed,

but also about encrypting the client hell= o (ECH). Beside the SNI, this also means that more fields like ALPN in the C= lient hello are also encrypted in the future.

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-esni/

 

3.1.3 , 3.1.4: Correct for TLS 1.3 as it is today.= With ECH, this would have additional impact, but I think this is not in sco= pe for this draft as ECH is not yet standardized.

 = ;

Toby

 

Fro= m: OPSEC <opsec-bou= nces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ie= tf.org>
Date: Friday, 5. June 2020 at 17:05
To: OPSEC= <opsec@ietf.org>
Subject: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-= camwinget-opsec-ns-impact

 

Folks,

 

This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-imp= act. The call for adoption will end on 6/19/2020.

 

        = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      Ron and Jen

 

Juniper Business Use Only=

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X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530g8aXqzWGlL4WiYFwIIe86FtdXCMSq7mK79iaE0CDuxuqo9LPb oXfLsB8XJqGk2iRAKNwPLoNS2EAZSt1/qDwVVeJTFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2lO68vl8ueIpPH222u77tyOUkJ9wurL9GsG8Jg9QQs+jEYfSahb55T2QcxmUjU8lo3J3qw+osVPnW0PYDMmo= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:6a1a:: with SMTP id f26mr8926314wmc.80.1591888603661; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:16:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Melchior Aelmans Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 17:16:32 +0200 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: OPSEC , John Scudder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be624e05a7d07219" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] ACLs on SP edge nodes X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:16:48 -0000 --000000000000be624e05a7d07219 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron! Does this help? https://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/day-one-books/DO_BGP_SecureRout= ing2.0.pdf Cheers, Melchior On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:21 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > Folks, > > > > Does anybody know of a document that provides general recommendations for > ACL=E2=80=99s to be implemented on service provider edge nodes? > > > > > > > Ron > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > OPSEC mailing list > OPSEC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec > --000000000000be624e05a7d07219 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:21 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&g= t; wrote:

Folks,

=C2=A0

Does anybody know of a document that provides genera= l recommendations for ACL=E2=80=99s to be implemented on service provider e= dge nodes?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron=

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

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multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DM6PR05MB6348974020A5CB616D7ECD9BAE800DM6PR05MB6348namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c4c252b1-ea4d-400b-a474-08d80e224fd6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jun 2020 16:13:00.3129 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RkhEePyAHczAdV4d7zGDO/C/Wdz5DiF7ifVgLxqFYamxycmKi96kSEAbD+RAAEL38xL4vHjpM0KJeISKbg09GQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB4571 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.216, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-06-11_16:2020-06-11, 2020-06-11 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=793 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 cotscore=-2147483648 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2006110126 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSEC] Please consider volunteering for NOMCOM X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:13:04 -0000 --_000_DM6PR05MB6348974020A5CB616D7ECD9BAE800DM6PR05MB6348namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A call for volunteers has been posted at https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomco= m/ann/156633/ Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_DM6PR05MB6348974020A5CB616D7ECD9BAE800DM6PR05MB6348namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A call for volunteers has been posted at https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/ann/156633/

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

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--0000000000007c469905a7d67b94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thank you for your work on this draft, it has come a long way since it was first written! I support it's adoption and provided a review. I am also happy to review again before final publication if helpful. Introduction I think it's worth adding a bullet that specifies a system that's not able to itself detect and repent threats as is needed when you embrace a fully E2E encrypted solution. It will take a bit of time before those models are practical everywhere. There's a definite need to document this current situation as the network is one of the active methods used to detect and prevent threats today. As such, I support this document being adopted and have a few comments for consideration. For the quote on RFC8404, I'd characterize that document as a catalog of what's impacted when encryption is deployed E2E to help develop new methods, where appropriate, to evolve with an E2E model. [RFC8404] documented such a need with the effect of pervasive encryption on operations. Even though it's said, I think it would help to make a tiny change: [RFC8404] documented a need to evolve with the effect of pervasive encryption on operations. Section 3 You may want to change the following sentence to fit in line with an OpSec practice documentation draft> From:"Each deployment scenario describes relevant operational practices." To:"Each deployment scenario describes current operational practices." The categorizations look good, I think this in new from my last review. Section 3.1.1 I like how you've categorized the impact, but I think the display of it may make all the difference. This is int he current document: TLS 1.3 impact: reduced effectiveness. Per Section 4.2, domain categorization and application identification will be limited to IP address and SNI information (beyond additional correlation possible with other means such as DNS). How about: Impact Category: Reduced Effectiveness. Per ... 3.1.2 uses a different format, so making these consistent would be good. It says TLS 1.3 considerations. I think leaving TLS out and just saying impact category makes the same point and may not be objectionable. Also for this section, the last line says the Certificate is not available. I think it's that the ALPN response is encrypted that matters here as that tells you what cipher suites were negotiated. Section 3.1.4 Do you want to add that the ALPN response is encrypted here as well? Section 3.2.2 It should note that DLP can also be addressed on endpoints, whether or not you add a comment on scaling. Section 3.2.3 You may not want to add alternate approaches, but I would think one designing this today would opt for use of a routing overlay protocol, no? SFC, NSH, GENEVE Section 3.3.3 Just a note that I am not sure you'd want in the document, but web application firewalls are falling out of favor as a defense. Section 4 heading Consider changing from: Changes in TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations To: Changes from TLSv1.2 to TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations Section 4.1 Please not that RC7525 has recommended against use of RSA static keys and has recommended use of AEAD cipher suites. Section 5 Security Considerations Consider changing the initial sentence from: "This entire document discusses security considerations in existing operational security practices interacting with TLS." To: "This document discusses the impact to common security monitoring and detection functionality with a move from TLSv1.2 to TLSv1.3 considering existing operational security practices interacting with TLS." Or something that reads better with the same point :-) -- Best regards, Kathleen --0000000000007c469905a7d67b94 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for your work on this draft, it has come a long = way since it was first written!=C2=A0 I support it's adoption and provi= ded a review.=C2=A0 I am also happy to review again before final publicatio= n if helpful.

Introduction

I think it's worth= adding a bullet that specifies a system that's not able to itself dete= ct and repent threats as is needed when you embrace a fully E2E encrypted s= olution.=C2=A0 It will take a bit of time before those models are practical= everywhere.

There's a definite need to document this current si= tuation as the network is one of the active methods used to detect and prev= ent threats today.=C2=A0 As such, I support this document being adopted and= have a few comments for consideration.

For the quote on RFC8404, I&= #39;d characterize that document as a catalog of what's impacted when e= ncryption is deployed E2E to help develop new methods, where appropriate, t= o evolve with an E2E model.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8404] documented such a= need with the effect of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pervasive encryption on operations= .

Even though it's said, I think it would help to make a tiny ch= ange:
=C2=A0 [RFC8404] documented a need to evolve with the effect of=C2=A0 =C2=A0pervasive encryption on operations.

Section 3

Y= ou may want to change the following sentence to fit in line with an OpSec p= ractice documentation draft>
From:"Each deployment scenario desc= ribes relevant operational practices."
To:"Each deployment sce= nario describes current operational practices."

The categorizat= ions look good, I think this in new from my last review.

Section 3.1= .1

I like how you've categorized the impact, but I think the dis= play of it may make all the difference.=C2=A0 This is int he current docume= nt:

TLS 1.3 impact: reduced effectiveness.=C2=A0 Per Section 4.2, do= main
=C2=A0 =C2=A0categorization and application identification will be = limited to IP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address and SNI information (beyond additiona= l correlation possible
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with other means such as DNS).
How about:

Impact Category: Reduced Effectiveness.=C2=A0 Per ...

3.1.2 uses a different format, so making these consistent would b= e good.=C2=A0 It says TLS 1.3 considerations.=C2=A0 I think leaving TLS out= and just saying impact category makes the same point and may not be object= ionable.
Also for this section, the last line says the Certificate is no= t available.=C2=A0 I think it's that the ALPN response is encrypted tha= t matters here as that tells you what cipher suites were negotiated.
Section 3.1.4
Do you want to add that the ALPN response is encrypted he= re as well?

Section 3.2.2
It should note that DLP can also be add= ressed on endpoints, whether or not you add a comment on scaling.

Se= ction 3.2.3
You may not want to add alternate approaches, but I would th= ink one designing this today would opt for use of a routing overlay protoco= l, no?

SFC, NSH, GENEVE

Section 3.3.3
Just a note that I = am not sure you'd want in the document, but web application firewalls a= re falling out of favor as a defense.

Section 4 heading
Consider = changing from:
Changes in TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations
To= : Changes from TLSv1.2 to TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations

S= ection 4.1 Please not that RC7525 has recommended against use of RSA static= keys and has recommended use of AEAD cipher suites.

Section 5 Secur= ity Considerations
Consider changing the initial sentence from:
"= ;This entire document discusses security considerations in existing
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0operational security practices interacting with TLS."
To:=
"This document discusses the impact to common security monitoring = and detection functionality with a move from TLSv1.2 to TLSv1.3 considering= existing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational security practices interacting with T= LS."
Or something that reads better with the same point :-)

=

--

Best regards,
= Kathleen
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Mon, 15 Jun 2020 11:57:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7ECCE190-01DA-410C-B891-6732EB300FC1@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:57:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: tom petch Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , Ron Bonica , OPSEC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 18:57:54 -0000 [ Top post ] Thanks Nancy, Tom, et al, I also checked with the TLS chairs and ADs[0], and Ben replied saying that he feels it should be fine in OPSEC[1], but that it's probably worth giving a heads-up to TLS if / when this approaches WGLC. So, great - as I think I've already mentioned, I happen to think that this is useful. Thanks everyone, W [0]: It's really not good having WGs stepping on each other's toes, and I hadn't been following this in TLS... [1]: Seeing as Roman is an author, I'm gonna count that as implicit support for it being here :-) On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:14 AM tom petch wrote: > > From: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) > Sent: 11 June 2020 03:30 > > =EF=BB=BFOn 6/10/20, 5:42 AM, "OPSEC on behalf of Warren Kumari" wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 6:18 AM tom petch wrote= : > > From: OPSEC on behalf of Ron Bonica > > Sent: 05 June 2020 16:04 > > > > Folks, > > > > This email begins a call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-i= mpact. T= he call for adoption will end on 6/19/2020. > > > > Support > > > > I would have liked this to be a TLS document but the fact that it i= s not makes it even more important that it is adopted. > > Actually, that raises an important point -- why is it *not* a TLS > document? Are we wading into deep waters here? Did TLS object to this > document, or just show no interest, or say "'tis a fine idea, but too > operational for here, vaya con dios"? > [NCW] It is the latter, that is, it is more about the operational impacts= of network security. When it was presented at the TLS WG, > It was noted that the draft presented TLS use cases but from an operation= al perspective and didn't fit with their current charter. > There were suggestions that opsec could be a better fit. > > > I track the discussions on the TLS list, saw the discussion there inter a= lia and have a more jaundiced view. > > The TLS WG has many highly skilled, highly active proponents, more so tha= n any other IETF WG I know. Its culture I see as perfect security no matte= r what. TLS 1.3 thus addresses all known problems no matter what. If this= renders it unusable in places, too bad - perfect security cannot be compro= mised. This I-D says TLS 1.3 is not perfect in some settings so the TLS WG= would commit suicide before ever adopting it. Which is a shame since that= is where the expertise lies and where any infelicities in the I-D might be= detected. Shame, but that is how it is. > > Tom Petch > > Can this CfA be CCed to the TLS WG so that we get more review? > > > W > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > Ron and Jen > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OPSEC mailing list > > OPSEC@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec > > > > -- > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad > idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressin= g > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair > of pants. > ---maf > > _______________________________________________ > OPSEC mailing list > OPSEC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec > > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Mon Jun 15 14:54:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24BEC3A09E5 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=dHBr/MpQ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YLQSeN7OVf_X for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 03:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk (pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:42:150::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B483A14F4 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 03:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GF-MacBook-Pro.lan (fgrpf.plus.com [212.159.18.54]) by pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E6FC1B001BF for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:57:00 +0100 (BST) References: <338d2b89-ce85-9de9-3141-136ef98285fb@erg.abdn.ac.uk> To: opsec@ietf.org From: Gorry Fairhurst X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <338d2b89-ce85-9de9-3141-136ef98285fb@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Message-ID: <24bdd3f3-ce0d-555e-abe9-bf5d391f4cdb@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:56:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <338d2b89-ce85-9de9-3141-136ef98285fb@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: [OPSEC] TSVWG: 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-15, closes 29 June 2020 X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:57:07 -0000 I'm sorry for this additional email, I have presented this within OPSEC when looking for material, and received great feedback. I am now trying to reach-out again to the people who contributed to our thinking behind the TSVWG transport encryption draft. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt/ The document has now completed a WGLC as INFO based on the content being ready. But, some people have asserted the document should not be published, because they did not see support for publishing this type of document. So, I wanted to check-in whether people think a document on this topic should be published by TSVWG? If you're able to comment to TSVWG (or tell us what we got wrong), we'd appreciate your inputs. 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[146.115.73.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m53sm6103282qtb.64.2020.06.19.03.17.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D4FA9EEF-60B1-4CD2-8276-20386B0AC2C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kathleen Moriarty Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:17:03 -0400 Message-Id: <0BC7FC53-BF56-47AB-9C11-3B0163B7FC3E@gmail.com> References: <96E17BAE-82DF-4653-AADB-5FC7CA489FE7@cisco.com> Cc: "opsec@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <96E17BAE-82DF-4653-AADB-5FC7CA489FE7@cisco.com> To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17F80) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] Review of draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 10:17:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail-D4FA9EEF-60B1-4CD2-8276-20386B0AC2C6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your response and updates. I read the full message and respon= ses look good. Best regards, Kathleen=20 Sent from my mobile device > On Jun 18, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Kathleen, > Many thanks for the thorough review! More comments below: > =20 > From: OPSEC on behalf of Kathleen Moriarty > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 3:29 PM > To: "opsec@ietf.org" > Subject: [OPSEC] Review of draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact > =20 > Thank you for your work on this draft, it has come a long way since it was= first written! I support it's adoption and provided a review. I am also h= appy to review again before final publication if helpful. > =20 > Introduction >=20 > I think it's worth adding a bullet that specifies a system that's not able= to itself detect and repent threats as is needed when you embrace a fully E= 2E encrypted solution. It will take a bit of time before those models are p= ractical everywhere. > There's a definite need to document this current situation as the network i= s one of the active methods used to detect and prevent threats today. As su= ch, I support this document being adopted and have a few comments for consid= eration. >=20 > [NCW] How about this as a bullet: =E2=80=9Ca single system may itself may n= ot be able to detect and mitigate threats=E2=80=9D >=20 > For the quote on RFC8404, I'd characterize that document as a catalog of w= hat's impacted when encryption is deployed E2E to help develop new methods, w= here appropriate, to evolve with an E2E model. >=20 > [RFC8404] documented such a need with the effect of > pervasive encryption on operations.. >=20 > Even though it's said, I think it would help to make a tiny change: > [RFC8404] documented a need to evolve with the effect of > pervasive encryption on operations. >=20 > [NCW] That is fair and I can make the change. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Section 3 >=20 > You may want to change the following sentence to fit in line with an OpSec= practice documentation draft> > From:"Each deployment scenario describes relevant operational practices." > To:"Each deployment scenario describes current operational practices." >=20 > [NCW] Will do >=20 >=20 >=20 > The categorizations look good, I think this in new from my last review. >=20 > Section 3.1..1 >=20 > I like how you've categorized the impact, but I think the display of it ma= y make all the difference. This is int he current document: >=20 > TLS 1.3 impact: reduced effectiveness. Per Section 4.2, domain > categorization and application identification will be limited to IP > address and SNI information (beyond additional correlation possible > with other means such as DNS). >=20 > How about: >=20 > Impact Category: Reduced Effectiveness. Per ... >=20 > [NCW] Will do >=20 > 3.1.2 uses a different format, so making these consistent would be good. I= t says TLS 1.3 considerations. I think leaving TLS out and just saying impa= ct category makes the same point and may not be objectionable. > Also for this section, the last line says the Certificate is not available= . I think it's that the ALPN response is encrypted that matters here as tha= t tells you what cipher suites were negotiated. >=20 > [NCW] Thanks for catching it, we actually are using =E2=80=9CTLS 1.3 consi= derations=E2=80=9D we happened to miss the one in section 3.1.1 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Section 3.1.4 > Do you want to add that the ALPN response is encrypted here as well? >=20 > [NCW] We can, I=E2=80=99ll confer with co-authors in how best to incorpora= te. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Section 3.2.2 > It should note that DLP can also be addressed on endpoints, whether or not= you add a comment on scaling. >=20 > [NCW] OK >=20 >=20 > Section 3.2.3 > You may not want to add alternate approaches, but I would think one design= ing this today would opt for use of a routing overlay protocol, no? >=20 > [NCW] I don=E2=80=99t think we are listing alternate approaches? Overlay c= ould be an alternate, but our point is not to suggest other approaches other= than to state how the TLS proxies get used today and their impact. >=20 >=20 >=20 > SFC, NSH, GENEVE >=20 > Section 3.3.3=20 > Just a note that I am not sure you'd want in the document, but web applica= tion firewalls are falling out of favor as a defense. >=20 > [NCW] OK; I think we included it based on previous feedback (to include as= a consideration too) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Section 4 heading > Consider changing from: > Changes in TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations > To: Changes from TLSv1.2 to TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations >=20 > [NCW] But the context is to summarize the 1.3; while some of the uses can a= pply to 1.2 the impact is really more due to the way 1.3 applies them. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Section 4.1 Please not that RC7525 has recommended against use of RSA stat= ic keys and has recommended use of AEAD cipher suites. >=20 > [NCW] OK >=20 >=20 >=20 > Section 5 Security Considerations > Consider changing the initial sentence from: > "This entire document discusses security considerations in existing > operational security practices interacting with TLS." > To: > "This document discusses the impact to common security monitoring and dete= ction functionality with a move from TLSv1.2 to TLSv1.3 considering existing= > operational security practices interacting with TLS." > Or something that reads better with the same point :-) >=20 > [NCW] OK >=20 > =20 > -- > =20 > Best regards, > Kathleen --Apple-Mail-D4FA9EEF-60B1-4CD2-8276-20386B0AC2C6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your response and updates. &n= bsp;I read the full message and responses look good.

Best= regards,
Kathleen 

Sent from my mobi= le device

On Jun 18, 202= 0, at 6:04 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote:=

=EF=BB= =BF

Hi Kathleen,

Many thanks for the thorough review!  More comme= nts below:

 

From:= OPSEC <opsec-bou= nces@ietf.org> on behalf of Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@= gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 3:29 PM
To: "opsec@ietf.org" <opsec@ietf.org>
Subject: [OPSEC] Review of draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact=

 

Thank you for your work on this draft, it has come a l= ong way since it was first written!  I support it's adoption and provid= ed a review.  I am also happy to review again before final publication i= f helpful.

 

Introduction

I think it's worth adding a bullet that specifies a system that's not able t= o itself detect and repent threats as is needed when you embrace a fully E2E= encrypted solution.  It will take a bit of time before those models ar= e practical everywhere.
There's a definite need to document this current situation as the network is= one of the active methods used to detect and prevent threats today.  A= s such, I support this document being adopted and have a few comments for co= nsideration.

[NCW] How about this a= s a bullet: =E2=80=9Ca single system may itself may not be able to detect an= d mitigate threats=E2=80=9D

For the quote on RFC8404, I'd characterize that document as a catalog of wha= t's impacted when encryption is deployed E2E to help develop new methods, wh= ere appropriate, to evolve with an E2E model.

   [RFC8404] documented such a need with the effect of
   pervasive encryption on operations..

Even though it's said, I think it would help to make a tiny change:
  [RFC8404] documented a need to evolve with the effect of
   pervasive encryption on operations.

[NCW] That is fair and= I can make the change.



Section 3

You may want to change the following sentence to fit in line with an OpSec p= ractice documentation draft>
From:"Each deployment scenario describes relevant operational practices." To:"Each deployment scenario describes current operational practices."<= /o:p>

[NCW] Will do



The categorizations look good, I think this in new from my last review.

Section 3.1..1

I like how you've categorized the impact, but I think the display of it may m= ake all the difference.  This is int he current document:

TLS 1.3 impact: reduced effectiveness.  Per Section 4.2, domain
   categorization and application identification will be limited t= o IP
   address and SNI information (beyond additional correlation poss= ible
   with other means such as DNS).

How about:

Impact Category: Reduced Effectiveness.  Per ...

[NCW] Will do

3.1.2 uses a different format, so making these consistent would be good.&nbs= p; It says TLS 1.3 considerations.  I think leaving TLS out and just sa= ying impact category makes the same point and may not be objectionable.
Also for this section, the last line says the Certificate is not available.&= nbsp; I think it's that the ALPN response is encrypted that matters here as t= hat tells you what cipher suites were negotiated.

[NCW] Thanks for catch= ing it, we actually are using =E2=80=9CTLS 1.3 considerations=E2=80=9D we ha= ppened to miss the one in section 3.1.1



Section 3.1.4
Do you want to add that the ALPN response is encrypted here as well?

[NCW] We can, I=E2=80=99= ll confer with co-authors in how best to incorporate.



Section 3.2.2
It should note that DLP can also be addressed on endpoints, whether or not y= ou add a comment on scaling.

[NCW] OK


Section 3.2.3
You may not want to add alternate approaches, but I would think one designin= g this today would opt for use of a routing overlay protocol, no?=

[NCW] I don=E2=80=99t t= hink we are listing alternate approaches?  Overlay could be an alternat= e, but our point is not to suggest other approaches other than to state how t= he TLS proxies get used today and their impact.



SFC, NSH, GENEVE

Section 3.3.3
Just a note that I am not sure you'd want in the document, but web applicati= on firewalls are falling out of favor as a defense.

[NCW] OK; I think we i= ncluded it based on previous feedback (to include as a consideration too)



Section 4 heading
Consider changing from:
Changes in TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations
To: Changes from TLSv1.2 to TLS v1.3 Relevant to Security Operations

[NCW] But the context i= s to summarize the 1.3; while some of the uses can apply to 1.2 the impact i= s really more due to the way 1.3 applies them.



Section 4.1 Please not that RC7525 has recommended against use of RSA static= keys and has recommended use of AEAD cipher suites.

[NCW] OK



Section 5 Security Considerations
Consider changing the initial sentence from:
"This entire document discusses security considerations in existing
   operational security practices interacting with TLS."
To:
"This document discusses the impact to common security monitoring and detect= ion functionality with a move from TLSv1.2 to TLSv1.3 considering existing    operational security practices interacting with TLS."
Or something that reads better with the same point :-)

[NCW] OK

 

--

 

Best regards,

Kathleen

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Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:17:51 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: OPSEC Thread-Topic: Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact Thread-Index: AdZH3qq0qLo/5Q4LSROfa1rmwvTWPg== Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:17:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-06-21T15:17:50Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=748cc307-aaa7-4677-af72-cbc8d4f19ec3; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2 dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.5.0.60 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, This email ends the call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. = The WG has shows sufficient interest to adopt. Nancy, Please resubmit the draft as draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact. Be sure it indicat= e that it replaces draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_DM6PR05MB6348DB5FE5FA8149906E2FD0AE960DM6PR05MB6348namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks,

 

This email ends the call for adoption on  draft= -camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. The WG has shows sufficient interest to adopt.<= o:p>

 

Nancy,

 

Please resubmit the draft as draft-ietf-opsec-ns-imp= act. Be sure it indicate that it replaces draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact.<= o:p>

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             =       Ron

 

 

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

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(localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF67D3A0C94; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 16:56:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: opsec@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.4.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: opsec@ietf.org Message-ID: <159295656881.2080.14897469715486353486@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 16:56:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 23:56:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operational Security Capabilities for IP Network Infrastructure WG of the IETF. Title : Impact of TLS 1.3 to Operational Network Security Practices Authors : Nancy Cam-Winget Eric Wang Roman Danyliw Roelof DuToit Filename : draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2020-06-23 Abstract: Network-based security solutions are used by enterprises, the public sector, internet-service providers, and cloud-service providers to both complement and enhance host-based security solutions. As TLS is a widely deployed protocol to secure communication, these network- based security solutions must necessarily interact with it. This document describes this interaction for current operational security practices and notes the impact of TLS 1.3 on them. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 23 17:03:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF2C3A0C8F for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:03:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubgZqX4n3Dv5 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16E1F3A0C81 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id e13so265355qkg.5 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:02:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VkX/ccPoXTGHxKcAwGyoSX83Wt0jBg+R8spSybjLQ1E=; b=cB3gdei/+fblVf7ZrRYWPA5dYRvWdjhBYyaSDlcQ5e019ODaAbjjfRI0Ys5FNh9zsE fUzfEA4zx3fVrU3L0EkJVarML2BUderA+l1ueKO9kk4wRDIjWHOsGu4Bi5WZUBZM5867 MyqgsVyFoEDadWI651CuSriJqgwT0r476tJ87fVKo8P0stBZSaPP765XGhmW6SMaasDW sh+o7IVgIv+W1breK2keL3jwJws+jbcNDKqE7YZMW4RLiPAM4CnB8m44M5csSfZNe7tH 4CUlyDTOPA4ox7rOljRGc/HREBx7o7mTazyN0tQaeLM/G/qyBUUYXixsLwid/0+nv1hJ QCzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VkX/ccPoXTGHxKcAwGyoSX83Wt0jBg+R8spSybjLQ1E=; b=qjOWF3QwaDJ8UXSZ1mb+kK2JwmcuceoNhsFE/vIUsCT7+WxriSUIlyz08ooe9szjot i9u3uBC+2Kwc299YhEAqp3G23fFVdRtAy7yjncrl6exC/mPmS5HvBICwzAx/1O0yq7kN TZ3S/CaZC8du6om6G1YMS63j2MgNY7OaskDyj1wsIAEcdxtvGpCmEGhFH0hOK1VGSBSJ zHEv9MNUt/Z0gr9k48aTHGMTvYoAhjgjHNNsHnhhskNA1y2dYx8M0XFJ+bbPrMvhnesL w0KhccITDSvjB9/GOe9/7DXO2K20CCOAwYxPQ3TSCOQ1L1ccioSNNZlKGrPQYaB3xdtL mHVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531FMBVgYHtsJtuP++Q9u/DCxKiimoUkxrA8XvlsLPY/aRD5/KI3 MSRTIzQhNvAOD/MRXzut9cey5svAttEniIHKtGASJg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwj2ccZ3E4z8pjhsyjnc4qHKL2CYdcW0RbiZHOgUyDGu4i/FIFGYNkg7dh8YRk9bqzUmamU7phP8kkJqJ8ygyk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:13fb:: with SMTP id h27mr19203001qkl.466.1592956978003; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:02:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4243B320-711B-41E3-AB18-2C8B0A793B24@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4243B320-711B-41E3-AB18-2C8B0A793B24@cisco.com> From: Jen Linkova Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:02:47 +1000 Message-ID: To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" Cc: Ron Bonica , OPSEC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 00:03:00 -0000 Approved, thanks Nancy! On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:46 AM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) wrote: > > Hi Ron, > > I have submitted the now renamed draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact and awaiting chair approval. > > > > Thanks! Nancy > > > > From: OPSEC on behalf of Ron Bonica > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 8:18 AM > To: OPSEC > Subject: [OPSEC] Call For Adoption: draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact > > > > Folks, > > > > This email ends the call for adoption on draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. The WG has shows sufficient interest to adopt. > > > > Nancy, > > > > Please resubmit the draft as draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact. Be sure it indicate that it replaces draft-camwinget-opsec-ns-impact. > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > OPSEC mailing list > OPSEC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry From nobody Wed Jun 24 04:31:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: opsec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295323A0D6C for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 04:31:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SK-SNefx8sHM for ; 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Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:31:34 +0000 Received: from DB7PR07MB5340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f911:a06:2f4e:a103]) by DB7PR07MB5340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f911:a06:2f4e:a103%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3131.016; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:31:34 +0000 From: tom petch To: "opsec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHWSboASIofXdoi40OM+UnjA2fhjajnn3Mz Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:31:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <159295656881.2080.14897469715486353486@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <159295656881.2080.14897469715486353486@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.128.101.145] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0fd37fbd-5219-4245-08b4-08d818322689 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBAPR07MB6758: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:2733; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR07MB5340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0fd37fbd-5219-4245-08b4-08d818322689 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jun 2020 11:31:34.5862 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HXdiyrC5RdLBeKCB2qTcd0fmejkd7F8Zn6II4L81vvvoOjj6g/peCbmBOfLoLa3rnCINp6g3T61Io3mXY1HI/Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBAPR07MB6758 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OPSEC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00.txt X-BeenThere: opsec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: opsec wg mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:31:39 -0000 From: OPSEC on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org = =0A= Sent: 24 June 2020 00:56=0A= =0A= Nancy=0A= =0A= Some general thoughts.=0A= =0A= You assume that the server has an X.509 certificate. Probably the right ap= proach but I think that you need an Assumptions in s.1 ruling out PSK etc.= =0A= =0A= You assume that the client does not have a certificate; ditto.=0A= =0A= The problem statement is that TLS1.3 cannot do what TLS1.2 can and that is = not explained until s.4. I think that some of that if not the whole sectio= n belongs earlier, section 1 or 2.=0A= =0A= I was going to ask if encrypted SNI belong in this I-D somewhere then saw i= t in the references. I think that you need to say more than [ESNI]=0A= =0A= Does channel binding belong in here somewhere? I saw an I-D to provide cha= nnel binding for TLS 1.3 on the grounds that it no longer worked which is s= omething I had not realised about TLS1.3.=0A= =0A= In passing, you have a mix of TLS 1.3 and TLS v1.3; I prefer the former but= prefer consistency more!=0A= =0A= Tom petch=0A= =0A= =0A= A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.=0A= This draft is a work item of the Operational Security Capabilities for IP N= etwork Infrastructure WG of the IETF.=0A= =0A= Title : Impact of TLS 1.3 to Operational Network Security= Practices=0A= Authors : Nancy Cam-Winget=0A= Eric Wang=0A= Roman Danyliw=0A= Roelof DuToit=0A= Filename : draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00.txt=0A= Pages : 17=0A= Date : 2020-06-23=0A= =0A= Abstract:=0A= Network-based security solutions are used by enterprises, the public=0A= sector, internet-service providers, and cloud-service providers to=0A= both complement and enhance host-based security solutions. As TLS is=0A= a widely deployed protocol to secure communication, these network-=0A= based security solutions must necessarily interact with it. This=0A= document describes this interaction for current operational security=0A= practices and notes the impact of TLS 1.3 on them.=0A= =0A= =0A= The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact/=0A= =0A= There are also htmlized versions available at:=0A= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsec-ns-impact-00=0A= =0A= =0A= Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n=0A= until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=0A= =0A= Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:=0A= ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/=0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= OPSEC mailing list=0A= OPSEC@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec=0A=