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From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:48:11 -0400
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Subject: [OSPF] Last Chance on draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-09.txt
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We have decided to allow for a 1 week last call on the subject MPLS  
WG document in both the OSPF and ISIS WGs. It was previously last  
called but this was some time ago (1-2 years back). If you have any  
comments (other than no draft should be allowed to have a title  
spanning 2 full lines), please send them to this list and the MPLS  
list (mpls@lists.ietf.org) by 12:00 AM EST on Friday, May 9th.

For your convenience:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te- 
lsps-09.txt

Thanks,
Acee
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">We have decided to allow for a =
1 week last call on the subject MPLS WG document in both the OSPF and =
ISIS WGs. It was previously last called but this was some time ago (1-2 =
years back). If you have any comments (other than no draft should be =
allowed to have a title spanning 2 full lines), please send them to this =
list and the MPLS list (<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</a>) by 12:00 AM =
EST on Friday, May 9th.=A0<div><br></div><div>For your =
convenience:=A0</div><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te=
-lsps-09.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0=
-bw-te-lsps-09.txt</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Acee</div></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

--===============1034569278==--


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Subject: [OSPF] Last Chance on draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-09.txt
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We have decided to allow for a 1 week last call on the subject MPLS  
WG document in both the OSPF and ISIS WGs. It was previously last  
called but this was some time ago (1-2 years back). If you have any  
comments (other than no draft should be allowed to have a title  
spanning 2 full lines), please send them to this list and the MPLS  
list (mpls@lists.ietf.org) by 12:00 AM EST on Friday, May 9th.

For your convenience:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te- 
lsps-09.txt

Thanks,
Acee
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
We have decided to allow for a 1 week last call on the subject MPLS WG =
document in both the OSPF and ISIS WGs. It was previously last called =
but this was some time ago (1-2 years back). If you have any comments =
(other than no draft should be allowed to have a title spanning 2 full =
lines), please send them to this list and the MPLS list (<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@lists.ietf.org">mpls@lists.ietf.org</a>) by 12:00 AM =
EST on Friday, May 9th.=A0<div><br></div><div>For your =
convenience:=A0</div><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te=
-lsps-09.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0=
-bw-te-lsps-09.txt</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Acee</div></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

--===============1727637818==--


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The WG last call on the revised document has completed. I will  
prepare the protocol write-up for the AD review.
Thanks,
Acee
On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Acee Lindem wrote:

> This version includes Vishwas Manral's and Jonathan Sadler's  
> comments from the WG last call. Please take a look at the updated  
> version. Unless there are any objections, I plan to send it to the  
> ADs on April 30th, 2008.
>
> For you convenience, here is a link:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-05.txt
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
 The WG last call on the revised document has completed. I will prepare =
the protocol write-up for the AD =
review.=A0<div>Thanks,</div><div>Acee=A0<br><div><div>On Apr 24, 2008, =
at 5:33 PM, Acee Lindem wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> This =
version includes Vishwas Manral's and Jonathan Sadler's comments from =
the WG last call. Please take a look at the updated version. Unless =
there are any objections, I plan to send it to the ADs on April 30th, =
2008.<div><br><div>For you convenience, here is a =
link:=A0</div><div><br><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-05.txt">ht=
tp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-05.txt</a></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Acee=A0</=
div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</div><div =
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margin-left: 0px; ">OSPF mailing list</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
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href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org">OSPF@ietf.org</a></div><div =
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margin-left: 0px; "><a =
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ailman/listinfo/ospf</a></div> =
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Cc: ospf@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Subject: [OSPF] RFC 5185 on OSPF Multi-Area Adjacency
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 5185

        Title:      OSPF Multi-Area Adjacency 
        Author:     S. Mirtorabi, P. Psenak,
                    A. Lindem, Ed., A. Oswal
        Status:     Standards Track
        Date:       May 2008
        Mailbox:    sina@nuovasystems.com, ppsenak@cisco.com, 
                    acee@redback.com,  aoswal@redback.com
        Pages:      11
        Characters: 18698
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ospf-multi-area-adj-09.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5185.txt

This document describes an extension to the Open Shortest Path First
(OSPF) protocol to allow a single physical link to be shared by
multiple areas.  This is necessary to allow the link to be considered
an intra-area link in multiple areas.  This would create an intra-
area path in each of the corresponding areas sharing the same link.  
[STANDARDS TRACK]

This document is a product of the Open Shortest Path First IGP Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Internet
Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and
status of this protocol.  Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list.
Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list
should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG.  Requests to be
added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should
be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.

Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending
an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body 

help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example:

        To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG
        Subject: getting rfcs

        help: ways_to_get_rfcs

Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Unless
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.

Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC
Authors, for further information.


The RFC Editor Team
USC/Information Sciences Institute

...


_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


From c.lenaerts@waypoint-design.com  Sun May 18 13:27:09 2008
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Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:26:44 -0500
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The new Porsche Design watches originated from the novel Titanium Chronograph from the 1970's, an absolutely unique creation due to the perfection of its workmanship. Based on its design, the Porsche Design Company developed an appealing, stylish, sporty and highly accurate watch. Unfortunately, these timepieces come with a high price tag. 
http://rywafyko20118.blogspot.com/

That's why a clever group of European manufacturers decided to offer the same exact functionality and style at greatly reduced prices: the Porsche Design replica watches. These replicas are so similar to the brand name pieces that it is practically impossible to tell them apart, other than by their price. They look the same, they function the same and they definitely don't have the same prices :) How would you like to browse through an amazing collection of these watches and marvel yourself with their low prices? Visit Prestige Replicas and see for yourself why sometimes replicas are so much better than the originals!
http://rywafyko20118.blogspot.com/





From c.vanherp@rotim.com  Mon May 19 17:42:28 2008
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Subject: Save thousands... no one will know
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 20:42:14 -0500
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The new Porsche Design watches originated from the novel Titanium Chronograph from the 1970's, an absolutely unique creation due to the perfection of its workmanship. Based on its design, the Porsche Design Company developed an appealing, stylish, sporty and highly accurate watch. Unfortunately, these timepieces come with a high price tag. 
http://nuvohehenyd04.blogspot.com/

That's why a clever group of European manufacturers decided to offer the same exact functionality and style at greatly reduced prices: the Porsche Design replica watches. These replicas are so similar to the brand name pieces that it is practically impossible to tell them apart, other than by their price. They look the same, they function the same and they definitely don't have the same prices :) How would you like to browse through an amazing collection of these watches and marvel yourself with their low prices? Visit Prestige Replicas and see for yourself why sometimes replicas are so much better than the originals!
http://nuvohehenyd04.blogspot.com/





From ediuf11@yahoo.com.ph  Tue May 20 05:56:53 2008
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From: "Eng.Assans Eng.Assans" <ediuf11@yahoo.com.ph>
Reply-To: a_diuf@excite.com
Subject: ARE YOU TRUST WHORTHY
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Compliment of day,
   
  I am Eng.Assane Diuf from SENEGAL and i want to do business with you and will like let you know that this project is planned to be quickened and will be conducted with precise actions according to the program i want you to understand that this is not fake as you think but i want you to know that you will not pay anything till the money gets to you care.
   
   
  First it may be of interest to know that I am the incumbent Technical director in the Federal Ministry of Works and Housing and I have the privilege of office to facilitate the claim of an over-invoice amount still pending in the suspense account of the Ministry of Finance awaiting recommendation for payment from my office.
   
  I have prepared the grounds to present you as a sub-contractor and provide necessary papers in the contract file to back the claim application in your favour according to the legal requirements of my ministry.
 
The ministry of finance has established two options for all categories of capital contract payment to beneficiaries and you will choose which process we will take to receive the money as soon as the payment is approved in your name. The amount that will be claimed in this project is $7.5m .
   
  Given your unalloyed support I am confident that we can effect this claim in a matter of a week and some days. 
  
I must assure you that no risk is attached because all the legal steps will be strictly followed and we will hire a lawyer who will stand as your legal representative and sign the fund release order bond on your behalf as soon as the payment is approved in your favour. 
   
  It will be a pleasure to talk with you on the telephone for acquaintance and rapport and I will not hesitate to give you a call upon receipt of your positive response for the way forward. Do indicate your mobile phone number for my call in your next mail.
   
  Eng.Assane Diuf.


       
---------------------------------
Support Victims of the Cyclone in Myanmar (Burma). 
   Donate Now.
--0-1946813581-1211288207=:67988
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
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<DIV><STRONG>Compliment of day,</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>I am Eng.Assane Diuf from SENEGAL and i want to do business with you and will like let you know that this project is planned to be quickened and will be conducted with precise actions according to the program i want you to understand that this is not fake as you think but i want you to know that you will not pay anything till the money gets to you care.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>First it may be of interest to know that I am the incumbent Technical director in the Federal Ministry of Works and Housing and I have the privilege of office to facilitate the claim of an over-invoice amount still pending in the suspense account of the Ministry of Finance awaiting recommendation for payment from my office.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>I have prepared the grounds to present you
 as a sub-contractor and provide necessary papers in the contract file to back the claim application in your favour according to the legal requirements of my ministry.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>The ministry of finance has established two options for all categories of capital contract payment to beneficiaries and you will choose which process we will take to receive the money as soon as the payment is approved in your name. The amount that will be claimed in this project is $7.5m .</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>Given your unalloyed support I am confident that we can effect this claim in a matter of a week and some days. </STRONG></DIV><STRONG>  <DIV><BR>I must assure you that no risk is attached because all the legal steps will be strictly followed and we will hire a lawyer who will stand as your legal representative and sign the fund release order bond on your behalf as soon as the payment is approved in your favour. </DIV>  <DIV></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> 
 <DIV><STRONG>It will be a pleasure to talk with you on the telephone for acquaintance and rapport and I will not hesitate to give you a call upon receipt of your positive response for the way forward. Do indicate your mobile phone number for my call in your next mail.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>Eng.Assane Diuf.</STRONG><BR></DIV><p>&#32;
      <hr size=1>
Support Victims of the Cyclone in Myanmar (Burma). <br>  
<a href="http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/aid_myanmar/"> Donate Now.</a>
--0-1946813581-1211288207=:67988--



From ediuf11@yahoo.com.ph  Tue May 20 05:56:56 2008
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From: "Eng.Assans Eng.Assans" <ediuf11@yahoo.com.ph>
Reply-To: a_diuf@excite.com
Subject: ARE YOU TRUST WHORTHY
To: ediuf11@yahoo.com.ph
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--0-1946813581-1211288207=:67988
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Compliment of day,
   
  I am Eng.Assane Diuf from SENEGAL and i want to do business with you and will like let you know that this project is planned to be quickened and will be conducted with precise actions according to the program i want you to understand that this is not fake as you think but i want you to know that you will not pay anything till the money gets to you care.
   
   
  First it may be of interest to know that I am the incumbent Technical director in the Federal Ministry of Works and Housing and I have the privilege of office to facilitate the claim of an over-invoice amount still pending in the suspense account of the Ministry of Finance awaiting recommendation for payment from my office.
   
  I have prepared the grounds to present you as a sub-contractor and provide necessary papers in the contract file to back the claim application in your favour according to the legal requirements of my ministry.
 
The ministry of finance has established two options for all categories of capital contract payment to beneficiaries and you will choose which process we will take to receive the money as soon as the payment is approved in your name. The amount that will be claimed in this project is $7.5m .
   
  Given your unalloyed support I am confident that we can effect this claim in a matter of a week and some days. 
  
I must assure you that no risk is attached because all the legal steps will be strictly followed and we will hire a lawyer who will stand as your legal representative and sign the fund release order bond on your behalf as soon as the payment is approved in your favour. 
   
  It will be a pleasure to talk with you on the telephone for acquaintance and rapport and I will not hesitate to give you a call upon receipt of your positive response for the way forward. Do indicate your mobile phone number for my call in your next mail.
   
  Eng.Assane Diuf.


       
---------------------------------
Support Victims of the Cyclone in Myanmar (Burma). 
   Donate Now.
--0-1946813581-1211288207=:67988
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<DIV><STRONG>Compliment of day,</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>I am Eng.Assane Diuf from SENEGAL and i want to do business with you and will like let you know that this project is planned to be quickened and will be conducted with precise actions according to the program i want you to understand that this is not fake as you think but i want you to know that you will not pay anything till the money gets to you care.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>First it may be of interest to know that I am the incumbent Technical director in the Federal Ministry of Works and Housing and I have the privilege of office to facilitate the claim of an over-invoice amount still pending in the suspense account of the Ministry of Finance awaiting recommendation for payment from my office.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>I have prepared the grounds to present you
 as a sub-contractor and provide necessary papers in the contract file to back the claim application in your favour according to the legal requirements of my ministry.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>The ministry of finance has established two options for all categories of capital contract payment to beneficiaries and you will choose which process we will take to receive the money as soon as the payment is approved in your name. The amount that will be claimed in this project is $7.5m .</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>Given your unalloyed support I am confident that we can effect this claim in a matter of a week and some days. </STRONG></DIV><STRONG>  <DIV><BR>I must assure you that no risk is attached because all the legal steps will be strictly followed and we will hire a lawyer who will stand as your legal representative and sign the fund release order bond on your behalf as soon as the payment is approved in your favour. </DIV>  <DIV></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> 
 <DIV><STRONG>It will be a pleasure to talk with you on the telephone for acquaintance and rapport and I will not hesitate to give you a call upon receipt of your positive response for the way forward. Do indicate your mobile phone number for my call in your next mail.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><STRONG>Eng.Assane Diuf.</STRONG><BR></DIV><p>&#32;
      <hr size=1>
Support Victims of the Cyclone in Myanmar (Burma). <br>  
<a href="http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/aid_myanmar/"> Donate Now.</a>
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From c.nipkow@quartierkultur-kreis6.ch  Wed May 21 11:00:27 2008
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Since 1884 Bvlgari watches have drawn inspiration from the timeless beauty of Greek and Roman art. The time pieces that they produce are as much works of art, as a way to tell time, and now you can possess one of these splendid time pieces for a very affordable price, at Prestige Replicas.
http://www.adieks.com/

This store has the finest collection of Bvlgari replica watches, and you will be astounded at the difference in price as well as amazed at the quality of their timepieces. Prestige Replicas works hard to make sure that your purchase is shipped as fast as your order is processed, and also that your private information is protected. And with the new redesign of the Prestige Replicas website, we are offering 15% off on your purchase of watches!
http://www.adieks.com/





From c.unfried@secure.medicalnet.at  Thu May 22 12:05:26 2008
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What comes to mind when you hear the words Louis Vuitton? Of course, the classic style, the superior quality of their bags, their unique look, and their inflated price tag. But, how about being able to afford a beautiful Louis Vuitton handbag without having to dent your budget? It is now possible. Thanks to Prestige Replicas, that Louis Vuitton bag or wallet is closer to you than ever before! Come visit our new designer bag section and pick that special Louis Vuitton handbag that you've always wanted. 
http://wuhyluhakyr77.blogspot.com/

Remember, Prestige Replicas offers award winning customer service and an absolute guarantee of its products and your privacy!
http://wuhyluhakyr77.blogspot.com/






From northdeluxe@bellnet.ca  Sat May 24 06:34:52 2008
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From: <northdeluxe@bellnet.ca>
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Subject: You Won  =?ISO-8859-1?B?ozEsMDAwLDAwMC4wMA==?= GBP 
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You won the sum of =A31,000,000.00 GBP from our monthlyPromotion,to claim=
 your prize get back to us with your Names,Address,Occupation,Age. Send t=
o =

:mrjohn_williams772@yahoo.co.uk


From cabmail@woodenradiatorcabinet.com  Mon May 26 00:52:39 2008
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Since 1884 Bvlgari watches have drawn inspiration from the timeless beauty of Greek and Roman art. The time pieces that they produce are as much works of art, as a way to tell time, and now you can possess one of these splendid time pieces for a very affordable price, at Prestige Replicas.
http://www%2Ejusiile%2Ecom/

This store has the finest collection of Bvlgari replica watches, and you will be astounded at the difference in price as well as amazed at the quality of their timepieces. Prestige Replicas works hard to make sure that your purchase is shipped as fast as your order is processed, and also that your private information is protected. And with the new redesign of the Prestige Replicas website, we are offering 15% off on your purchase of watches!
http://www%2Ejusiile%2Ecom/





From trevor4@bellnet.ca  Mon May 26 06:14:10 2008
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From: Irish Lottery Promo <trevor4@bellnet.ca>
Reply-To: dr.williams_spencer02@yahoo.co.uk
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To: <Info@irishlottery.org>
Subject: 2008 **winner**
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 9:14:11 -0400
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contactr. Dr. Williams Spencer,Email: 
dr.williams_spencer02@yahoo.co.uk for a lump sum pay out of 1,350 000 pounds. Provide him with the information below: 1.Full Name: 2.Full Address, Occupation, sex and age


From c.porot@mutualitefrancaiserhone.fr  Mon May 26 12:24:19 2008
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Everybody knows that a Cartier watch is a silent statement of wealth and luxury. But we all know as well that the price of putting one of them on your wrist is for the most unaffordable by the average Joe. That's why replica Cartier watches are becoming more and more popular by the day. They're actually the affordable solution to this dilemma. And thanks to the internet, there is now a place where the highest quality Cartier replicas are available: Prestige Replicas. So, why not take a look at the extensive inventory that this site has to offer? After all, browsing through their hundreds of Cartier watches is absolutely free, and buying the one of your dreams is simply inexpensive.
http://www%2Eadieks%2Ecom/





From caciara@caciara.it  Tue May 27 01:47:57 2008
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:46:50 -0500
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From ospf-bounces@ietf.org  Wed May 28 05:18:57 2008
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Thread-Topic: What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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From: "Prasanna Kumar A.S" <sprasanna@juniper.net>
To: "OSPF List" <ospf@ietf.org>
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Subject: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi
  I just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging MTU in
DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control plane or
is it for the DATA-plane?

Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt doesn't
specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet for the
ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
ipv4-mtu?


Regards
Prasanna 
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From ospf-bounces@ietf.org  Wed May 28 05:24:22 2008
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Hi Prasanna,

On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:

> Hi
>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging  
> MTU in
> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control plane or
> is it for the DATA-plane?

Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF will  
attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as will fit in a  
maximum sized packet.


>
> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt  
> doesn't
> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet for the
> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
> ipv4-mtu?

We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon. Since  
this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, you always use the  
IPv6 MTU.

Thanks,
Acee


>
>
> Regards
> Prasanna
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

_______________________________________________
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From: Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Acee,

I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. As I see 
it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming 
over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We do 
this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link that 
will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than ours.

While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when 
building it's packets, this information should be available 
locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.

So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD packet should 
be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.

Regards,
Paul

Acee Lindem wrote:
> Hi Prasanna,
> 
> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging  
>> MTU in
>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control plane or
>> is it for the DATA-plane?
> 
> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF will  
> attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as will fit in a  
> maximum sized packet.
> 
> 
>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt  
>> doesn't
>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet for the
>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
>> ipv4-mtu?
> 
> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon. Since  
> this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, you always use the  
> IPv6 MTU.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
>>
>> Regards
>> Prasanna
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSPF mailing list
>> OSPF@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


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From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Paul,

On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>
> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. As I see  
> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming over  
> a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We do this  
> primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link that will  
> drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than ours.

I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF list  
and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of problems  
with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs (ethernet, FDDI,  
token ring, and the worst of all technologies - ATM emulated  
LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially but the exchange  
process would hang indefinitely when they were restarted due to the  
router with the larger MTU having a larger database and trying to use  
full DD packets. Unfortunately, the OSPF list was hosted on a server  
at Microsoft Corporation in those days and I don't have access to  
archives. Here is some text from RFC 2178, appendix G:

G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches

    When two neighboring routers have a different interface MTU for  
their
    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large packets  
are
    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router to the
    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
    "black holes" for user data traffic.

    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch problem by
    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.  
When a
    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
    larger than the router can receive, the router drops the Database
    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming, telling
    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection between
    the two routers. For more information, see Sections 10.6, 10.8, and
    A.3.3.

On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I believe  
data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a benefit. If we  
used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database exchanges, we could  
still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could depend on the unicast IPv6  
address family for this checking but, heretofore, we've kept the  
instances independent.

Thanks,
Acee


>
> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when  
> building it's packets, this information should be available locally  
> without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>
> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD packet should  
> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>
> Regards,
> Paul
>
> Acee Lindem wrote:
>> Hi Prasanna,
>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging   
>>> MTU in
>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control  
>>> plane or
>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF will   
>> attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as will fit  
>> in a  maximum sized packet.
>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt   
>>> doesn't
>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet  
>>> for the
>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
>>> ipv4-mtu?
>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon. Since   
>> this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, you always use the   
>> IPv6 MTU.
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Prasanna
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSPF mailing list
>>> OSPF@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSPF mailing list
>> OSPF@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Hi Paul,<div><br></div><div><div><div><div>On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, =
Paul Wells wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Acee,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I =
disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. As I see it, it's =
function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming over a link where =
the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We do this primarily to =
prevent the data plane from using a link that will drop packets sent to =
a system with an MTU smaller than =
ours.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I happen to remember the =
discussion of this problem on the OSPF list and this was not the primary =
motivation. There were lots of problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs =
with mismatched MTUs (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all =
technologies - ATM emulated LANs :^). =A0Adjacencies would come up fine =
initially but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they =
were restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger =
database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the OSPF list =
was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation in those days and I =
don't have access to archives. Here is some text from RFC 2178, appendix =
G:=A0</div><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">G.9 =
Detecting interface MTU mismatches</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: =
normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 When two neighboring =
routers have a different interface MTU for their</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 common network segment, serious problems can =
ensue: large packets are</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 =
prevented from being successfully transferred from one router to =
the</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 other, impairing =
OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 "black holes" for user data =
traffic.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU =
mismatch problem by</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 =
advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets. When =
a</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 router receives a =
Database description packet advertising an MTU</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 larger than the router can receive, the router =
drops the Database</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 =
Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming, =
telling</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 OSPF flooding and =
user data traffic to avoid the connection between</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 the two routers. For more information, see =
Sections 10.6, 10.8, and</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 =
A.3.3.</font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div></div><div>On the other hand, once =
the MTU checking was implemented, I believe data plane MTU consistency =
has been purported as a benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 =
address database exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. =
One could depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking =
but, heretofore, we've kept the instances =
independent.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Acee</div><div>=
<br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">While OSPFv3 certainly needs to =
know the IPv6 link MTU when building it's packets, this information =
should be available locally without reference to the MTU field in the =
DBD packet.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD =
packet should be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all =
cases.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Regards,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Paul</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Acee Lindem wrote:</div> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Prasanna,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S =
wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I =
just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>MTU in</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for =
the control plane or</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">is it for the =
DATA-plane?</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Control-plane =
- when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF will<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>attempt to send as many LSA =
headers or complete LSAs as will fit in a<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>maximum sized packet.</div> =
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Why I am getting this doubt =
is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>doesn't</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the =
DD packet for the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast =
Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">ipv4-mtu?</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We have this =
clarified in the an update which we post soon. Since<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>this is OSPFv3 which using =
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Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 16:31:27 -0500
From: Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Acee,

That was before my time, so I'll defer to your recollection about 
how OSPF MTU checking came to be. The section of 2178 below does 
seem to give equal weight to both the control and data plane 
benefits of MTU verification however.

This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when 
routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are 
two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in the 
DBD packets:

1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.

In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by 
installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a 
MTU mismatch.

In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be 
compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never 
forms, or having formed may later fail.

Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both 
MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.

I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the 
IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6 
minimum MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.

Thanks,
Paul

Acee Lindem wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
> 
>> Hi Acee,
>>
>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. As I see it, 
>> it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming over a link 
>> where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We do this primarily 
>> to prevent the data plane from using a link that will drop packets 
>> sent to a system with an MTU smaller than ours.
> 
> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF list and 
> this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of problems with 
> bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs (ethernet, FDDI, token 
> ring, and the worst of all technologies - ATM emulated LANs :^). 
>  Adjacencies would come up fine initially but the exchange process would 
> hang indefinitely when they were restarted due to the router with the 
> larger MTU having a larger database and trying to use full DD packets. 
> Unfortunately, the OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft 
> Corporation in those days and I don't have access to archives. Here is 
> some text from RFC 2178, appendix G: 
> 
> G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
> 
>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface MTU for their
>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large packets are
>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router to the
>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
> 
>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch problem by
>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets. When a
>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops the Database
>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming, telling
>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection between
>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections 10.6, 10.8, and
>    A.3.3.
> 
> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I believe data 
> plane MTU consistency has been purported as a benefit. If we used the 
> IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database exchanges, we could still have an 
> IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could depend on the unicast IPv6 address family 
> for this checking but, heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
>>
>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when building 
>> it's packets, this information should be available locally without 
>> reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>
>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD packet should be 
>> for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Paul
>>
>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging  MTU in
>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control plane or
>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF will  
>>> attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as will fit in 
>>> a  maximum sized packet.
>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt  
>>>> doesn't
>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet for the
>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon. Since  
>>> this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, you always use the  
>>> IPv6 MTU.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Prasanna
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSPF mailing list
>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
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From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Paul,

On May 28, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Paul Wells wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>
> That was before my time, so I'll defer to your recollection about  
> how OSPF MTU checking came to be. The section of 2178 below does  
> seem to give equal weight to both the control and data plane  
> benefits of MTU verification however.

Hey - wouldn't you take credit? It beats the hell out of padding your  
hello packets to the maximum transmission unit (MTU) :^)

>
> This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when  
> routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are  
> two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in the DBD  
> packets:
>
> 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
> 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
>
> In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by  
> installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a  
> MTU mismatch.
>
> In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be  
> compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never  
> forms, or having formed may later fail.
>
> Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both  
> MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
>
> I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the  
> IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6 minimum  
> MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.

This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other  
authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether  
the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated  
OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not  
sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.

Thanks,
Acee



>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> Acee Lindem wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
>>> Hi Acee,
>>>
>>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. As I see  
>>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming  
>>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We  
>>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link  
>>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than  
>>> ours.
>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF  
>> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of  
>> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs  
>> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -  
>> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially  
>> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were  
>> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger  
>> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the  
>> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation in those  
>> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from  
>> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
>>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface MTU for  
>> their
>>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large  
>> packets are
>>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router  
>> to the
>>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
>>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
>>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch problem by
>>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.  
>> When a
>>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
>>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops the Database
>>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,  
>> telling
>>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection  
>> between
>>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections 10.6, 10.8,  
>> and
>>    A.3.3.
>> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I  
>> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a  
>> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database  
>> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could  
>> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,  
>> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
>> Acee
>>>
>>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when  
>>> building it's packets, this information should be available  
>>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>>
>>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD packet should  
>>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of  
>>>>> exchanging  MTU in
>>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control  
>>>>> plane or
>>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF  
>>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as  
>>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
>>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af- 
>>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
>>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet  
>>>>> for the
>>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
>>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.  
>>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, you always  
>>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

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From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Michael,

Nope - it was a pre-RFC 2178 thread involving Derek Yeung, John Moy,  
and others.

Thanks,
Acee

On May 28, 2008, at 6:20 PM, Michael Rozhavsky wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>
>>
>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF  
>> list and
>> this was not the primary motivation.
>
> I believe this is the discussion you are referring to:
>
> http://marc.info/?l=ms-ospf&m=103430314528492&w=4
>
>> There were lots of problems with
>> bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs (ethernet, FDDI,  
>> token
>> ring, and the worst of all technologies - ATM emulated LANs :^).
>> Adjacencies would come up fine initially but the exchange process  
>> would
>> hang indefinitely when they were restarted due to the router with the
>> larger MTU having a larger database and trying to use full DD  
>> packets.
>> Unfortunately, the OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft
>> Corporation in those days and I don't have access to archives.  
>> Here is some
>> text from RFC 2178, appendix G:
>>
>
> --
>     Michael Rozhavsky

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Thread-Topic: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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From: "Sina Mirtorabi" <sMirtorabi@nuovasystems.com>
To: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>,
	"Paul Wells" <pauwells@cisco.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Acee,

> > This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when  
> > routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are  
> > two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in 
> the DBD  
> > packets:
> >
> > 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
> > 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
> >
> > In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by  
> > installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a  
> > MTU mismatch.
> >
> > In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be  
> > compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never  
> > forms, or having formed may later fail.
> >
> > Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both  
> > MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
> >
> > I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the  
> > IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6 
> minimum  
> > MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
> 
> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other  
> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether  
> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated  
> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not  
> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.

One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any implementation of
alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet from IPv6
to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no deployed
implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate. There are
couple of options

1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
should be used.

2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU value is
for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch between v4
and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.
IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the advantage of
this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you don't
blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu

3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD packet (there
are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.

4) any other options


The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing the
IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for 3) if
there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state that
in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj will
not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 does
not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual IPv6 MTU
(which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU. 

thanks
Sina

> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > Acee Lindem wrote:
> >> Hi Paul,
> >> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
> >>> Hi Acee,
> >>>
> >>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. 
> As I see  
> >>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming  
> >>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We  
> >>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link  
> >>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than  
> >>> ours.
> >> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF  
> >> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of  
> >> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs  
> >> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -  
> >> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially  
> >> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were  
> >> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger  
> >> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the  
> >> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation 
> in those  
> >> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from  
> >> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
> >>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface 
> MTU for  
> >> their
> >>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large  
> >> packets are
> >>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router  
> >> to the
> >>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
> >>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
> >>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch 
> problem by
> >>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.  
> >> When a
> >>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
> >>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops 
> the Database
> >>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,  
> >> telling
> >>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection  
> >> between
> >>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections 
> 10.6, 10.8,  
> >> and
> >>    A.3.3.
> >> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I  
> >> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a  
> >> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database  
> >> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could  
> >> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,  
> >> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
> >> Acee
> >>>
> >>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when  
> >>> building it's packets, this information should be available  
> >>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
> >>>
> >>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD 
> packet should  
> >>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> Acee Lindem wrote:
> >>>> Hi Prasanna,
> >>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of  
> >>>>> exchanging  MTU in
> >>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control  
> >>>>> plane or
> >>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
> >>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF  
> >>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as  
> >>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
> >>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af- 
> >>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
> >>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet  
> >>>>> for the
> >>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it 
> ipv6-mtu or
> >>>>> ipv4-mtu?
> >>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.  
> >>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, 
> you always  
> >>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Acee
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Prasanna
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> OSPF mailing list
> >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OSPF mailing list
> >>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
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From: "Prasanna Kumar A.S" <sprasanna@juniper.net>
To: "Sina Mirtorabi" <sMirtorabi@nuovasystems.com>,
	"Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "Paul Wells" <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi
   I suggest following mechanism to communicate both the MTUs
   Initial DD packet should carry the MTU of Address-family which should
match with the mtu of that address-family otherwise mtu check should
fail, (I.e. if initial DD packet with AF bit set and matching MTU then
MTU check should pass) 

and subsequent DD packets should carry the ipv6-MTU (ignore MTU check
for non initial DD packet with Af bit set), And the ipv6 MTU of each
neighbor should be saved in the neighbor data-structure, then smallest
MTU of all the neighbors on the link is used for constructing the
ospf-packets to be transmitted on that link

Regards
Prasanna 

-----Original Message-----
From: ospf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Sina Mirtorabi
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:42 AM
To: Acee Lindem; Paul Wells
Cc: OSPF List
Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet

Hi Acee,

> > This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when  
> > routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are  
> > two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in 
> the DBD  
> > packets:
> >
> > 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
> > 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
> >
> > In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by  
> > installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a  
> > MTU mismatch.
> >
> > In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be  
> > compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never  
> > forms, or having formed may later fail.
> >
> > Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both  
> > MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
> >
> > I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the  
> > IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6 
> minimum  
> > MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
> 
> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other  
> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether  
> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated  
> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not  
> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.

One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any implementation of
alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet from IPv6
to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no deployed
implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate. There are
couple of options

1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
should be used.

2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU value is
for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch between v4
and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.
IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the advantage of
this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you don't
blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu

3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD packet (there
are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.

4) any other options


The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing the
IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for 3) if
there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state that
in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj will
not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 does
not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual IPv6 MTU
(which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU. 

thanks
Sina

> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > Acee Lindem wrote:
> >> Hi Paul,
> >> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
> >>> Hi Acee,
> >>>
> >>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. 
> As I see  
> >>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming  
> >>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We  
> >>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link  
> >>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than  
> >>> ours.
> >> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF  
> >> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of  
> >> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs  
> >> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -  
> >> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially  
> >> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were  
> >> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger  
> >> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the  
> >> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation 
> in those  
> >> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from  
> >> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
> >>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface 
> MTU for  
> >> their
> >>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large  
> >> packets are
> >>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router  
> >> to the
> >>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
> >>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
> >>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch 
> problem by
> >>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.  
> >> When a
> >>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
> >>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops 
> the Database
> >>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,  
> >> telling
> >>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection  
> >> between
> >>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections 
> 10.6, 10.8,  
> >> and
> >>    A.3.3.
> >> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I  
> >> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a  
> >> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database  
> >> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could  
> >> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,  
> >> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
> >> Acee
> >>>
> >>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when  
> >>> building it's packets, this information should be available  
> >>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
> >>>
> >>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD 
> packet should  
> >>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> Acee Lindem wrote:
> >>>> Hi Prasanna,
> >>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of  
> >>>>> exchanging  MTU in
> >>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control  
> >>>>> plane or
> >>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
> >>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF  
> >>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as  
> >>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
> >>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af- 
> >>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
> >>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet  
> >>>>> for the
> >>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it 
> ipv6-mtu or
> >>>>> ipv4-mtu?
> >>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.  
> >>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, 
> you always  
> >>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Acee
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Prasanna
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> OSPF mailing list
> >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OSPF mailing list
> >>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
_______________________________________________
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From: "Prasanna Kumar A.S" <sprasanna@juniper.net>
To: "Paul Wells" <pauwells@cisco.com>,
	"Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 May 2008 08:43:13.0150 (UTC)
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Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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I second paul, What is the use of the routes learnt when we know
forwarding is going to fail, And secondly the forwarding will fail
selectively only for the large data-packets that makes the
troubleshooting more difficult

Regards
Prasanna 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Wells [mailto:pauwells@cisco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 3:01 AM
To: Acee Lindem
Cc: Prasanna Kumar A.S; OSPF List
Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet

Hi Acee,

That was before my time, so I'll defer to your recollection about 
how OSPF MTU checking came to be. The section of 2178 below does 
seem to give equal weight to both the control and data plane 
benefits of MTU verification however.

This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when 
routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are 
two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in the 
DBD packets:

1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.

In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by 
installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a 
MTU mismatch.

In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be 
compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never 
forms, or having formed may later fail.

Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both 
MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.

I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the 
IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6 
minimum MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.

Thanks,
Paul

Acee Lindem wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
> 
>> Hi Acee,
>>
>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field. As I see it,

>> it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming over a
link 
>> where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We do this primarily

>> to prevent the data plane from using a link that will drop packets 
>> sent to a system with an MTU smaller than ours.
> 
> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF list
and 
> this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of problems with 
> bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs (ethernet, FDDI, token

> ring, and the worst of all technologies - ATM emulated LANs :^). 
>  Adjacencies would come up fine initially but the exchange process
would 
> hang indefinitely when they were restarted due to the router with the 
> larger MTU having a larger database and trying to use full DD packets.

> Unfortunately, the OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft 
> Corporation in those days and I don't have access to archives. Here is

> some text from RFC 2178, appendix G: 
> 
> G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
> 
>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface MTU for
their
>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large packets
are
>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router to
the
>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
> 
>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch problem by
>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets. When
a
>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops the Database
>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,
telling
>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection between
>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections 10.6, 10.8, and
>    A.3.3.
> 
> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I believe
data 
> plane MTU consistency has been purported as a benefit. If we used the 
> IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database exchanges, we could still have
an 
> IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could depend on the unicast IPv6 address family

> for this checking but, heretofore, we've kept the instances
independent. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
>>
>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when building 
>> it's packets, this information should be available locally without 
>> reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>
>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD packet should be 
>> for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Paul
>>
>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of exchanging
MTU in
>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control plane
or
>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF will  
>>> attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as will fit in 
>>> a  maximum sized packet.
>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-alt-06.txt  
>>>> doesn't
>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet for
the
>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it ipv6-mtu or
>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon. Since  
>>> this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport, you always use the  
>>> IPv6 MTU.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Prasanna
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSPF mailing list
>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
> 
_______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Sina,
Other than it will be a pain to specify, I like #2 with one  
variation. I say that if the new bit is clear, the 2 MTUs are equal  
and the specified MTU is simply checked against both MTUs. If it is  
set, it means the MTUs differ and we need to use the IPv6 minimum for  
OSPFv3 packet computation. As someone may point out, it's actually  
more complex - I'll post proposed text (hopefully, later today).
Thanks,
Acee
On May 28, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Sina Mirtorabi wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>
>>> This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when
>>> routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are
>>> two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in
>> the DBD
>>> packets:
>>>
>>> 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
>>> 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
>>>
>>> In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by
>>> installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a
>>> MTU mismatch.
>>>
>>> In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be
>>> compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never
>>> forms, or having formed may later fail.
>>>
>>> Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both
>>> MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
>>>
>>> I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the
>>> IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6
>> minimum
>>> MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
>>
>> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other
>> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether
>> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated
>> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not
>> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.
>
> One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any implementation of
> alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet from  
> IPv6
> to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no  
> deployed
> implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate. There  
> are
> couple of options
>
> 1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
> should be used.
>
> 2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU value is
> for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch between v4
> and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.
> IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the  
> advantage of
> this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you  
> don't
> blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu
>
> 3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD packet  
> (there
> are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.
>
> 4) any other options
>
>
> The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing the
> IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for 3) if
> there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state that
> in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj will
> not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
> advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 does
> not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual IPv6  
> MTU
> (which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU.
>
> thanks
> Sina
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field.
>> As I see
>>>>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming
>>>>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We
>>>>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link
>>>>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than
>>>>> ours.
>>>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF
>>>> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of
>>>> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs
>>>> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -
>>>> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially
>>>> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were
>>>> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger
>>>> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the
>>>> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation
>> in those
>>>> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from
>>>> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
>>>>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface
>> MTU for
>>>> their
>>>>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large
>>>> packets are
>>>>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router
>>>> to the
>>>>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
>>>>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
>>>>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch
>> problem by
>>>>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.
>>>> When a
>>>>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
>>>>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops
>> the Database
>>>>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,
>>>> telling
>>>>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection
>>>> between
>>>>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections
>> 10.6, 10.8,
>>>> and
>>>>    A.3.3.
>>>> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I
>>>> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a
>>>> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database
>>>> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could
>>>> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,
>>>> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>>
>>>>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when
>>>>> building it's packets, this information should be available
>>>>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD
>> packet should
>>>>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of
>>>>>>> exchanging  MTU in
>>>>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control
>>>>>>> plane or
>>>>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>>>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF
>>>>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as
>>>>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
>>>>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-
>>>>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
>>>>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet
>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it
>> ipv6-mtu or
>>>>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>>>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.
>>>>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport,
>> you always
>>>>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSPF mailing list
>> OSPF@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>

_______________________________________________
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From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
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To: Prasanna Kumar A.S <sprasanna@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Prasanna,

I'm not that keen on using the same field for different purposes. I  
would hope that in most cases the MTUs would be the same anyway.
Thanks,
Acee

On May 29, 2008, at 3:03 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:

> Hi
>    I suggest following mechanism to communicate both the MTUs
>    Initial DD packet should carry the MTU of Address-family which  
> should
> match with the mtu of that address-family otherwise mtu check should
> fail, (I.e. if initial DD packet with AF bit set and matching MTU then
> MTU check should pass)
>
> and subsequent DD packets should carry the ipv6-MTU (ignore MTU check
> for non initial DD packet with Af bit set), And the ipv6 MTU of each
> neighbor should be saved in the neighbor data-structure, then smallest
> MTU of all the neighbors on the link is used for constructing the
> ospf-packets to be transmitted on that link
>
> Regards
> Prasanna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ospf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On  
> Behalf Of
> Sina Mirtorabi
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:42 AM
> To: Acee Lindem; Paul Wells
> Cc: OSPF List
> Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
>
> Hi Acee,
>
>>> This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when
>>> routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are
>>> two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in
>> the DBD
>>> packets:
>>>
>>> 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
>>> 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
>>>
>>> In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by
>>> installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a
>>> MTU mismatch.
>>>
>>> In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be
>>> compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never
>>> forms, or having formed may later fail.
>>>
>>> Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both
>>> MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
>>>
>>> I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the
>>> IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6
>> minimum
>>> MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
>>
>> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other
>> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether
>> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated
>> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not
>> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.
>
> One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any implementation of
> alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet from  
> IPv6
> to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no  
> deployed
> implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate. There  
> are
> couple of options
>
> 1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
> should be used.
>
> 2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU value is
> for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch between v4
> and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.
> IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the  
> advantage of
> this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you  
> don't
> blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu
>
> 3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD packet  
> (there
> are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.
>
> 4) any other options
>
>
> The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing the
> IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for 3) if
> there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state that
> in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj will
> not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
> advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 does
> not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual IPv6  
> MTU
> (which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU.
>
> thanks
> Sina
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field.
>> As I see
>>>>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming
>>>>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We
>>>>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link
>>>>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than
>>>>> ours.
>>>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF
>>>> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of
>>>> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs
>>>> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -
>>>> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially
>>>> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were
>>>> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger
>>>> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the
>>>> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation
>> in those
>>>> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from
>>>> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
>>>>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface
>> MTU for
>>>> their
>>>>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large
>>>> packets are
>>>>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router
>>>> to the
>>>>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
>>>>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
>>>>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch
>> problem by
>>>>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.
>>>> When a
>>>>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
>>>>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops
>> the Database
>>>>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,
>>>> telling
>>>>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection
>>>> between
>>>>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections
>> 10.6, 10.8,
>>>> and
>>>>    A.3.3.
>>>> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I
>>>> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a
>>>> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database
>>>> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could
>>>> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,
>>>> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>>
>>>>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when
>>>>> building it's packets, this information should be available
>>>>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD
>> packet should
>>>>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of
>>>>>>> exchanging  MTU in
>>>>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control
>>>>>>> plane or
>>>>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>>>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF
>>>>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as
>>>>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
>>>>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-
>>>>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
>>>>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet
>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it
>> ipv6-mtu or
>>>>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>>>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.
>>>>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport,
>> you always
>>>>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSPF mailing list
>> OSPF@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

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Those of you who have worked with me in the past will not be  
surprised that I have come up with a slightly different solution.  
However, I think this is a simpler approach allows an OSPFv3 router  
to disable IPv6 MTU checking for non-IPv6 address families even if  
their IPv6 MTU matches their IPv4 MTU.


2.7.  Database Description Maximum Transmissoin Unit (MTU)
       Specification for Non-IPv6 AFs

    For address families other than IPv6, both the MTU for the address
    family of the instance and IPv6 MTU used for OSPFv3 maximum packet
    determination must be considered.  The MTU in the Database
    Description packet MUST always contain the MTU corresponding to the
    advertised address family.  For example, if the instance corresponds
    to an IPv4 address family, the IPv4 MTU for the interface MUST be
    specified in the interface MTU field.  As specified section 10.6 of
    [OSPFV2], the Database Description packet will be rejected if the  
MTU
    is greater than the receiving interface's MTU for the address family
    corresponding to the instance.  This behavior will assure an
    adjacency is not formed and address family specific routes are not
    installed over a path with conflicting MTUs.

    The value used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size determination must  
also
    be compatible an adjacency to be established.  Since only a single
    MTU field is specified, the M6-bit is defined by this specification.
    If the M6-bit is set, the OSPFv3 router will send OSPFv3 packets no
    larger than 1280 octets, the minimum IPv6 MTU (refer to [IPV6]).  If
    the M6-bit is clear, the specified MTU should also be checked  
against
    the IPv6 MTU and the Database Description packet should be rejected
    if the MTU is larger than the receiving interface's IPv6 MTU.  If  
the
    IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs differ, the M6-bit MUST be set for non-IPv6
    address families.

    If the M6-bit is set in a received Database Description packet for a
    non-IPv6 address family, the receiving router MUST NOT check the
    Interface MTU in the Database Exchange packet against the receiving
    interface's IPv6 MTU.

    The figure below graphically depicts the OSPFv3 Database Packet:

       0                   1                   2                    3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7  8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |      3        |       2       |        Packet  
Length            |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |                           Router  
ID                             |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |                             Area  
ID                             |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |           Checksum            |  Instance ID  |       
0          |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |       0       |                
Options                           |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |        Interface MTU          |      0        |0|0|0|M6|0|I|M| 
MS|
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
      |                    DD sequence  
number                           |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
       
|                                                                 |
       
+-                                                               -+
       
|                                                                 |
      +-                     An LSA  
Header                             -+
       
|                                                                 |
       
+-                                                               -+
       
|                                                                 |
       
+-                                                               -+
       
|                                                                 |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+- 
+--+
       
|                       ...                                       |

                  The OSPFv3 Database Description Packet

    The changed fields in the Database Description packet are described
    below.  The remaining fields are unchanged from [OSPFV3].


    Interface MTU
       The size in octets of the largest address-family specific  
datagram
       that can be sent out the associated interface without
       fragmentation.  The MTUs of common Internet link types can be
       found in Table 7-1 of [MTUDISC].  Interface MTU should be set  
to 0
       in Database Description packets sent over virtual links.

    M6-bit
       The Minimum IPv6 MTU bit - this bit indicates the sender wishes
       that the minumum IPv6 MTU be used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size
       determination.

Thanks,
Acee

On May 29, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:

> Hi Sina,
> Other than it will be a pain to specify, I like #2 with one
> variation. I say that if the new bit is clear, the 2 MTUs are equal
> and the specified MTU is simply checked against both MTUs. If it is
> set, it means the MTUs differ and we need to use the IPv6 minimum for
> OSPFv3 packet computation. As someone may point out, it's actually
> more complex - I'll post proposed text (hopefully, later today).
> Thanks,
> Acee
> On May 28, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Sina Mirtorabi wrote:
>
>> Hi Acee,
>>
>>>> This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when
>>>> routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are
>>>> two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in
>>> the DBD
>>>> packets:
>>>>
>>>> 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
>>>> 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
>>>>
>>>> In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by
>>>> installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a
>>>> MTU mismatch.
>>>>
>>>> In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be
>>>> compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never
>>>> forms, or having formed may later fail.
>>>>
>>>> Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both
>>>> MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the
>>>> IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6
>>> minimum
>>>> MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
>>>
>>> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other
>>> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether
>>> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated
>>> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not
>>> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.
>>
>> One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any  
>> implementation of
>> alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet from
>> IPv6
>> to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no
>> deployed
>> implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate. There
>> are
>> couple of options
>>
>> 1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
>> should be used.
>>
>> 2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU  
>> value is
>> for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch  
>> between v4
>> and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.
>> IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the
>> advantage of
>> this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you
>> don't
>> blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu
>>
>> 3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD packet
>> (there
>> are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.
>>
>> 4) any other options
>>
>>
>> The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing the
>> IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for  
>> 3) if
>> there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state  
>> that
>> in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj will
>> not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
>> advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 does
>> not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual IPv6
>> MTU
>> (which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU.
>>
>> thanks
>> Sina
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field.
>>> As I see
>>>>>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming
>>>>>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We
>>>>>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link
>>>>>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than
>>>>>> ours.
>>>>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF
>>>>> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of
>>>>> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs
>>>>> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -
>>>>> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially
>>>>> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were
>>>>> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger
>>>>> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the
>>>>> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation
>>> in those
>>>>> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from
>>>>> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
>>>>>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface
>>> MTU for
>>>>> their
>>>>>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large
>>>>> packets are
>>>>>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router
>>>>> to the
>>>>>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly  
>>>>> creating
>>>>>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
>>>>>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch
>>> problem by
>>>>>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.
>>>>> When a
>>>>>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an  
>>>>> MTU
>>>>>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops
>>> the Database
>>>>>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,
>>>>> telling
>>>>>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection
>>>>> between
>>>>>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections
>>> 10.6, 10.8,
>>>>> and
>>>>>    A.3.3.
>>>>> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I
>>>>> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a
>>>>> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database
>>>>> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could
>>>>> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,
>>>>> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when
>>>>>> building it's packets, this information should be available
>>>>>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD
>>> packet should
>>>>>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of
>>>>>>>> exchanging  MTU in
>>>>>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control
>>>>>>>> plane or
>>>>>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>>>>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF
>>>>>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as
>>>>>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
>>>>>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-
>>>>>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
>>>>>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet
>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it
>>> ipv6-mtu or
>>>>>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>>>>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.
>>>>>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport,
>>> you always
>>>>>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSPF mailing list
>>> OSPF@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


--Apple-Mail-48--297453083
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Those of you who have worked with me in the past =
will not be surprised that I have come up with a slightly different =
solution. However, I think this is a simpler approach allows an OSPFv3 =
router to disable IPv6 MTU checking for non-IPv6 address families even =
if their IPv6 MTU matches their IPv4 MTU.=A0</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Courier"><br></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Courier"><br></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">2.7. =A0Database Description Maximum Transmissoin Unit =
(MTU)</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0Specification for Non-IPv6 =
AFs</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 For address families other than IPv6, both the =
MTU for the address</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 family =
of the instance and IPv6 MTU used for OSPFv3 maximum =
packet</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 determination must be considered. =
=A0The MTU in the Database</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =
Description packet MUST always contain the MTU corresponding to =
the</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 advertised address family. =A0For =
example, if the instance corresponds</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 to an =
IPv4 address family, the IPv4 MTU for the interface MUST =
be</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 specified in the interface MTU =
field. =A0As specified section 10.6 of</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 [OSPFV2], the Database Description packet will be =
rejected if the MTU</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 is =
greater than the receiving interface's MTU for the address =
family</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 corresponding to the instance. =
=A0This behavior will assure an</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =
adjacency is not formed and address family specific routes are =
not</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 installed over a path with =
conflicting MTUs.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 The value used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size =
determination must also</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 be =
compatible an adjacency to be established. =A0Since only a =
single</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 MTU field is specified, the M6-bit =
is defined by this specification.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 If the =
M6-bit is set, the OSPFv3 router will send OSPFv3 packets =
no</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 larger than 1280 octets, the =
minimum IPv6 MTU (refer to [IPV6]). =A0If</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 the M6-bit is clear, the specified MTU should =
also be checked against</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 the =
IPv6 MTU and the Database Description packet should be =
rejected</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 if the MTU is larger than the =
receiving interface's IPv6 MTU. =A0If the</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs differ, the M6-bit MUST be set =
for non-IPv6</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 address =
families.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 If the M6-bit is set in a received Database =
Description packet for a</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =
non-IPv6 address family, the receiving router MUST NOT check =
the</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 Interface MTU in the Database =
Exchange packet against the receiving</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 interface's IPv6 MTU.</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 The =
figure below graphically depicts the OSPFv3 Database =
Packet:</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A03</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 =A08 9 0 1</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A03 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 2 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Packet Length =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 Router ID =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 Area ID =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 |</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Checksum =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0| =A0Instance ID =A0| =A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 Options =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Interface MTU =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0| =A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0|0|0|0|M6|0|I|M|MS|</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0DD =
sequence number =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 |</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 +- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -+</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 |</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 +- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 An LSA Header =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -+</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 +- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -+</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 +- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -+</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+</font>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
... =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 |</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The OSPFv3 Database =
Description Packet</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 The changed fields in the Database Description =
packet are described</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 below. =
=A0The remaining fields are unchanged from [OSPFV3].</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 Interface MTU</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
=A0The size in octets of the largest address-family specific =
datagram</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0that can be sent out the =
associated interface without</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
=A0fragmentation. =A0The MTUs of common Internet link types can =
be</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0found in Table 7-1 of =
[MTUDISC]. =A0Interface MTU should be set to 0</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0in Database Description packets sent over =
virtual links.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 M6-bit</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =
=A0The Minimum IPv6 MTU bit - this bit indicates the sender =
wishes</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0that the minumum IPv6 MTU =
be used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Courier">=A0=A0 =A0 =A0determination.</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; =
min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div><div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Acee</div><div><br></div><div>On =
May 29, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Sina,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Other than it =
will be a pain to specify, I like #2 with one <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">variation. I say that if the new bit is clear, the 2 MTUs are equal =
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">and the specified MTU is simply checked against both =
MTUs. If it is <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">set, it means the MTUs differ and we need to use the =
IPv6 minimum for <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><di=
v style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">OSPFv3 packet computation. As someone may point out, =
it's actually <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">more complex - I'll post proposed text (hopefully, =
later today).</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Acee</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On May 28, =
2008, at 10:11 PM, Sina Mirtorabi wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Acee,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This still leaves the question =
of what to do for af-alt when</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">routing =
address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to =
advertise in</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the DBD</div> =
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">packets:</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1. IPv6 =
MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2. IPv6 MTUs =
differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In the first case I don't think =
we're doing anyone a favor by</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">installing =
routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">MTU mismatch.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In the second case OSPFv3 =
flooding and synchronization may be</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">compromised. =
A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">forms, or having formed may later fail.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Short of =
resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the =
other.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to =
communicate the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">IPv4 MTU when routing that =
address family, and use the IPv6</div> </blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">minimum</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.</div> =
</blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this =
off the other</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">authors and would solicit =
general comments. The question is whether</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the =
OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum =
MTU. I'm not</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">sure it does but I'd like to =
open it up to a brief discussion.</div> </blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">One =
issue is backward compatibility, if there is any implementation =
of</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU =
in the DD packet from <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">IPv6</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry =
about backward compatibility (no <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">deployed</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">implementation) then we have a =
shot to define as appropriate. There <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">are</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">couple of options</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) =
Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU =
discovery</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">should be used.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) We =
can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU value =
is</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. =
MTU mismatch between v4</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and v6) then =
the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum =
MTU), the <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">advantage of</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">this is that =
unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">don't</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">blindly reduce the IPv6 =
mtu</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either =
in DD packet <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">(there</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">are unused =
octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4) any =
other options</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The =
advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing =
the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum =
MTU and adj will be formed, for 3) if</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">there is =
a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state that</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be =
used, the adj will</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">not be established if we =
follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 =
does</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">not match AND IPv6 are the same =
between the system, the actual IPv6 <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">MTU</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(which is carried) is used =
instead of Minimum MTU.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">thanks</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Sina</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Acee</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Paul</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Acee =
Lindem wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi =
Paul,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, =
Paul Wells wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Acee,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I disagree about the "original =
intent" of the MTU field.</div> =
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">As I =
see</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">it, it's function is to prevent =
an OSPF adjacency from forming</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">over a link =
where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">do this primarily to prevent the data plane from =
using a link</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that will drop packets sent to a =
system with an MTU smaller than</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ours.</div> =
</blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I happen to remember the =
discussion of this problem on the OSPF</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">list and =
this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with =
mismatched MTUs</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and =
the worst of all technologies -</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ATM emulated =
LANs :^).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Adjacencies =
would come up fine initially</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but the =
exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">restarted due to the router with the larger MTU =
having a larger</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">database and trying to use full =
DD packets. Unfortunately, the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">OSPF list was =
hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation</div> =
</blockquote></blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">in those</div> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">days and I =
don't have access to archives. Here is some text from</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU =
mismatches</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>When two neighboring =
routers have a different interface</div> </blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">MTU for</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">their</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</span>common network segment, serious problems can ensue: =
large</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">packets are</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</span>prevented from being successfully transferred from one =
router</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to the</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</span>other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly =
creating</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>"black holes" for user =
data traffic.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>This memo provides a fix =
for the interface MTU mismatch</div> </blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">problem by</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>advertising the interface =
MTU in Database Description packets.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">When =
a</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</span>router receives a Database description packet advertising an =
MTU</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>larger than the router can =
receive, the router drops</div> </blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">the Database</div> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>Description packet. This =
prevents an adjacency from forming,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">telling</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>OSPF flooding and user =
data traffic to avoid the connection</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">between</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </span>the two routers. For more =
information, see Sections</div> </blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">10.6, 10.8,</div> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</span>A.3.3.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On the other hand, once the MTU =
checking was implemented, I</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">believe data =
plane MTU consistency has been purported as a</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address =
database</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">exchanges, we could still have =
an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">depend on the =
unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. =
Thanks,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Acee</div> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link =
MTU when</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">building it's packets, this =
information should be available</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">locally =
without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">So, I =
would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD</div> =
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">packet =
should</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">be for the =
address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Regards,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Paul</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Acee =
Lindem wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi =
Prasanna,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, =
Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I just wanted to understand =
what the primary use of</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">exchanging<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>MTU =
in</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only =
for the control</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">plane or</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">is it for the DATA-plane?</div> </blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU =
packets, OSPF</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>attempt to send as many LSA =
headers or complete LSAs as</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will fit in =
a<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>maximum sized =
packet.</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Why I am =
getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">alt-06.txt<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>doesn't</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">specify which MTU we should use =
while exchanging the DD packet</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">for =
the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast =
Address-family, is it</div> =
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ipv6-mtu or</div> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ipv4-mtu?</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We have =
this clarified in the an update which we post soon.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Since<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport,</div> =
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">you always</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">use the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>IPv6 MTU.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Acee</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Regards</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Prasanna</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</div><div =
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Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:59:45 -0500
From: Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Acee,

This scheme looks okay to me. I have a couple of 
questions/suggestions, though. You say:

"If the IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs differ, the M6-bit MUST be set for 
non-IPv6 address families."

Do we also need to add a sentence like:

If the IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs are the same, the M6-bit MUST NOT be set 
for non-IPv6 address families.

in order to preclude an implementation setting the M6-bit in all 
cases?

Also, what happens when the M6-bits of routers on the link don't 
match? The text specifies that the router which has differing 
IPv4/IPv6 MTUs will send 1280 byte OSPFv3 packets, but it's really 
the other router(s) on the link that need to do this because they 
don't know what that router's IPv6 MTU is. I'd suggest changing 
the third paragraph to something like:

If the M6-bit is set in a received Database Description packet for 
a non-IPv6 address family, the receiving router MUST NOT check the 
Interface MTU in the Database Exchange packet against the 
receiving interface's IPv6 MTU and it MUST send OSPFv3 packets no 
larger than 1280 octets.

Thanks,
Paul

Acee Lindem wrote:
> Those of you who have worked with me in the past will not be surprised 
> that I have come up with a slightly different solution. However, I think 
> this is a simpler approach allows an OSPFv3 router to disable IPv6 MTU 
> checking for non-IPv6 address families even if their IPv6 MTU matches 
> their IPv4 MTU. 
> 
> 
> 2.7.  Database Description Maximum Transmissoin Unit (MTU)
>       Specification for Non-IPv6 AFs
> 
>    For address families other than IPv6, both the MTU for the address
>    family of the instance and IPv6 MTU used for OSPFv3 maximum packet
>    determination must be considered.  The MTU in the Database
>    Description packet MUST always contain the MTU corresponding to the
>    advertised address family.  For example, if the instance corresponds
>    to an IPv4 address family, the IPv4 MTU for the interface MUST be
>    specified in the interface MTU field.  As specified section 10.6 of
>    [OSPFV2], the Database Description packet will be rejected if the MTU
>    is greater than the receiving interface's MTU for the address family
>    corresponding to the instance.  This behavior will assure an
>    adjacency is not formed and address family specific routes are not
>    installed over a path with conflicting MTUs.
> 
>    The value used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size determination must also
>    be compatible an adjacency to be established.  Since only a single
>    MTU field is specified, the M6-bit is defined by this specification.
>    If the M6-bit is set, the OSPFv3 router will send OSPFv3 packets no
>    larger than 1280 octets, the minimum IPv6 MTU (refer to [IPV6]).  If
>    the M6-bit is clear, the specified MTU should also be checked against
>    the IPv6 MTU and the Database Description packet should be rejected
>    if the MTU is larger than the receiving interface's IPv6 MTU.  If the
>    IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs differ, the M6-bit MUST be set for non-IPv6
>    address families.
> 
>    If the M6-bit is set in a received Database Description packet for a
>    non-IPv6 address family, the receiving router MUST NOT check the
>    Interface MTU in the Database Exchange packet against the receiving
>    interface's IPv6 MTU.
> 
>    The figure below graphically depicts the OSPFv3 Database Packet:
> 
>       0                   1                   2                    3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7  8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |      3        |       2       |        Packet Length            |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |                           Router ID                             |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |                             Area ID                             |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |           Checksum            |  Instance ID  |      0          |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |       0       |               Options                           |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |        Interface MTU          |      0        |0|0|0|M6|0|I|M|MS|
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |                    DD sequence number                           |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |                                                                 |
>      +-                                                               -+
>      |                                                                 |
>      +-                     An LSA Header                             -+
>      |                                                                 |
>      +-                                                               -+
>      |                                                                 |
>      +-                                                               -+
>      |                                                                 |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+
>      |                       ...                                       |
> 
>                  The OSPFv3 Database Description Packet
> 
>    The changed fields in the Database Description packet are described
>    below.  The remaining fields are unchanged from [OSPFV3].
> 
> 
>    Interface MTU
>       The size in octets of the largest address-family specific datagram
>       that can be sent out the associated interface without
>       fragmentation.  The MTUs of common Internet link types can be
>       found in Table 7-1 of [MTUDISC].  Interface MTU should be set to 0
>       in Database Description packets sent over virtual links.
> 
>    M6-bit
>       The Minimum IPv6 MTU bit - this bit indicates the sender wishes
>       that the minumum IPv6 MTU be used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size
>       determination.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> On May 29, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
> 
>> Hi Sina,
>> Other than it will be a pain to specify, I like #2 with one  
>> variation. I say that if the new bit is clear, the 2 MTUs are equal  
>> and the specified MTU is simply checked against both MTUs. If it is  
>> set, it means the MTUs differ and we need to use the IPv6 minimum for  
>> OSPFv3 packet computation. As someone may point out, it's actually  
>> more complex - I'll post proposed text (hopefully, later today).
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> On May 28, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Sina Mirtorabi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Acee,
>>>
>>>>> This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when
>>>>> routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are
>>>>> two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in
>>>> the DBD
>>>>> packets:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
>>>>> 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by
>>>>> installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due to a
>>>>> MTU mismatch.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be
>>>>> compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency never
>>>>> forms, or having formed may later fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both
>>>>> MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the
>>>>> IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6
>>>> minimum
>>>>> MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
>>>>
>>>> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other
>>>> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is whether
>>>> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated
>>>> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not
>>>> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.
>>>
>>> One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any implementation of
>>> alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet from  
>>> IPv6
>>> to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no  
>>> deployed
>>> implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate. There  
>>> are
>>> couple of options
>>>
>>> 1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
>>> should be used.
>>>
>>> 2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU value is
>>> for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch between v4
>>> and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF, e.g.
>>> IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the  
>>> advantage of
>>> this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6 you  
>>> don't
>>> blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu
>>>
>>> 3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD packet  
>>> (there
>>> are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.
>>>
>>> 4) any other options
>>>
>>>
>>> The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not knowing the
>>> IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for 3) if
>>> there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and state that
>>> in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj will
>>> not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
>>> advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6 does
>>> not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual IPv6  
>>> MTU
>>> (which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Sina
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field.
>>>> As I see
>>>>>>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming
>>>>>>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We
>>>>>>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link
>>>>>>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller than
>>>>>>> ours.
>>>>>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF
>>>>>> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of
>>>>>> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs
>>>>>> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -
>>>>>> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially
>>>>>> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were
>>>>>> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger
>>>>>> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the
>>>>>> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation
>>>> in those
>>>>>> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from
>>>>>> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
>>>>>>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface
>>>> MTU for
>>>>>> their
>>>>>>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large
>>>>>> packets are
>>>>>>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly creating
>>>>>>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
>>>>>>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch
>>>> problem by
>>>>>>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description packets.
>>>>>> When a
>>>>>>    router receives a Database description packet advertising an MTU
>>>>>>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops
>>>> the Database
>>>>>>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,
>>>>>> telling
>>>>>>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection
>>>>>> between
>>>>>>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections
>>>> 10.6, 10.8,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>    A.3.3.
>>>>>> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I
>>>>>> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a
>>>>>> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database
>>>>>> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could
>>>>>> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,
>>>>>> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when
>>>>>>> building it's packets, this information should be available
>>>>>>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD
>>>> packet should
>>>>>>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of
>>>>>>>>> exchanging  MTU in
>>>>>>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control
>>>>>>>>> plane or
>>>>>>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>>>>>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF
>>>>>>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as
>>>>>>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
>>>>>>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-
>>>>>>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
>>>>>>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD packet
>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it
>>>> ipv6-mtu or
>>>>>>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>>>>>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.
>>>>>>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport,
>>>> you always
>>>>>>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
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From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:20:14 -0400
To: Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] What is the use of MTU field in DD packet
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Hi Paul,

On May 29, 2008, at 3:59 PM, Paul Wells wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>
> This scheme looks okay to me. I have a couple of questions/ 
> suggestions, though. You say:
>
> "If the IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs differ, the M6-bit MUST be set for non- 
> IPv6 address families."
>
> Do we also need to add a sentence like:
>
> If the IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs are the same, the M6-bit MUST NOT be set  
> for non-IPv6 address families.
>
> in order to preclude an implementation setting the M6-bit in all  
> cases?

No - I'd let an implementation set the bit and use the minimum IPv6  
MTU if they wanted to avoid a mismatch with their neighbors. In other  
words, this would handle the case where the routers IPv4 and IPv6  
MTUs were the same but their neighbor's were not.

>
> Also, what happens when the M6-bits of routers on the link don't  
> match? The text specifies that the router which has differing IPv4/ 
> IPv6 MTUs will send 1280 byte OSPFv3 packets, but it's really the  
> other router(s) on the link that need to do this because they don't  
> know what that router's IPv6 MTU is. I'd suggest changing the third  
> paragraph to something like:
>
> If the M6-bit is set in a received Database Description packet for  
> a non-IPv6 address family, the receiving router MUST NOT check the  
> Interface MTU in the Database Exchange packet against the receiving  
> interface's IPv6 MTU and it MUST send OSPFv3 packets no larger than  
> 1280 octets.

I don't think this is necessary - 10.6 of [OSPFv2] says the receiver  
should check that the received MTU is not greater than the receiving  
interface MTU. So, in short, the sender indicates what it will send  
(either explicitly or the minimum) and the receiver verifies that it  
can receive this MTU. Perhaps, I didn't articulate this well but I  
gotta get on another conference call in a couple minutes.

Thanks,
Acee



>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> Acee Lindem wrote:
>> Those of you who have worked with me in the past will not be  
>> surprised that I have come up with a slightly different solution.  
>> However, I think this is a simpler approach allows an OSPFv3  
>> router to disable IPv6 MTU checking for non-IPv6 address families  
>> even if their IPv6 MTU matches their IPv4 MTU. 2.7.  Database  
>> Description Maximum Transmissoin Unit (MTU)
>>       Specification for Non-IPv6 AFs
>>    For address families other than IPv6, both the MTU for the address
>>    family of the instance and IPv6 MTU used for OSPFv3 maximum packet
>>    determination must be considered.  The MTU in the Database
>>    Description packet MUST always contain the MTU corresponding to  
>> the
>>    advertised address family.  For example, if the instance  
>> corresponds
>>    to an IPv4 address family, the IPv4 MTU for the interface MUST be
>>    specified in the interface MTU field.  As specified section  
>> 10.6 of
>>    [OSPFV2], the Database Description packet will be rejected if  
>> the MTU
>>    is greater than the receiving interface's MTU for the address  
>> family
>>    corresponding to the instance.  This behavior will assure an
>>    adjacency is not formed and address family specific routes are not
>>    installed over a path with conflicting MTUs.
>>    The value used for OSPFv3 maximum packet size determination  
>> must also
>>    be compatible an adjacency to be established.  Since only a single
>>    MTU field is specified, the M6-bit is defined by this  
>> specification.
>>    If the M6-bit is set, the OSPFv3 router will send OSPFv3  
>> packets no
>>    larger than 1280 octets, the minimum IPv6 MTU (refer to  
>> [IPV6]).  If
>>    the M6-bit is clear, the specified MTU should also be checked  
>> against
>>    the IPv6 MTU and the Database Description packet should be  
>> rejected
>>    if the MTU is larger than the receiving interface's IPv6 MTU.   
>> If the
>>    IPv6 and IPv4 MTUs differ, the M6-bit MUST be set for non-IPv6
>>    address families.
>>    If the M6-bit is set in a received Database Description packet  
>> for a
>>    non-IPv6 address family, the receiving router MUST NOT check the
>>    Interface MTU in the Database Exchange packet against the  
>> receiving
>>    interface's IPv6 MTU.
>>    The figure below graphically depicts the OSPFv3 Database Packet:
>>       0                   1                   2                    3
>>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7  8 9  
>> 0 1
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |      3        |       2       |        Packet  
>> Length            |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |                           Router  
>> ID                             |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |                             Area  
>> ID                             |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |           Checksum            |  Instance ID  |       
>> 0          |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |       0       |                
>> Options                           |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |        Interface MTU          |      0        |0|0|0|M6|0|I| 
>> M|MS|
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>      |                    DD sequence  
>> number                           |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>       
>> |                                                                 |
>>       
>> +-                                                               -+
>>       
>> |                                                                 |
>>      +-                     An LSA  
>> Header                             -+
>>       
>> |                                                                 |
>>       
>> +-                                                               -+
>>       
>> |                                                                 |
>>       
>> +-                                                               -+
>>       
>> |                                                                 |
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+- 
>> +-+--+
>>       
>> |                       ...                                       |
>>                  The OSPFv3 Database Description Packet
>>    The changed fields in the Database Description packet are  
>> described
>>    below.  The remaining fields are unchanged from [OSPFV3].
>>    Interface MTU
>>       The size in octets of the largest address-family specific  
>> datagram
>>       that can be sent out the associated interface without
>>       fragmentation.  The MTUs of common Internet link types can be
>>       found in Table 7-1 of [MTUDISC].  Interface MTU should be  
>> set to 0
>>       in Database Description packets sent over virtual links.
>>    M6-bit
>>       The Minimum IPv6 MTU bit - this bit indicates the sender wishes
>>       that the minumum IPv6 MTU be used for OSPFv3 maximum packet  
>> size
>>       determination.
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> On May 29, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
>>> Hi Sina,
>>> Other than it will be a pain to specify, I like #2 with one   
>>> variation. I say that if the new bit is clear, the 2 MTUs are  
>>> equal  and the specified MTU is simply checked against both MTUs.  
>>> If it is  set, it means the MTUs differ and we need to use the  
>>> IPv6 minimum for  OSPFv3 packet computation. As someone may point  
>>> out, it's actually  more complex - I'll post proposed text  
>>> (hopefully, later today).
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>> On May 28, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Sina Mirtorabi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>
>>>>>> This still leaves the question of what to do for af-alt when
>>>>>> routing address families other than IPv6. It seems that there are
>>>>>> two cases of interest in deciding which MTU to advertise in
>>>>> the DBD
>>>>>> packets:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. IPv6 MTUs match, but IPv4 MTUs differ.
>>>>>> 2. IPv6 MTUs differ, but IPv4 MTUs match.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the first case I don't think we're doing anyone a favor by
>>>>>> installing routes in the IPv4 RIB that will be unreliable due  
>>>>>> to a
>>>>>> MTU mismatch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the second case OSPFv3 flooding and synchronization may be
>>>>>> compromised. A side effect of this may be that the adjacency  
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> forms, or having formed may later fail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Short of resorting to LLS or some other way of communicating both
>>>>>> MTUs it seems we have to pick one or the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to propose that we use the DBD packet to communicate the
>>>>>> IPv4 MTU when routing that address family, and use the IPv6
>>>>> minimum
>>>>>> MTU of 1280 bytes for OSPFv3 protocol packets.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a coherent proposal. I'd like to bounce this off the other
>>>>> authors and would solicit general comments. The question is  
>>>>> whether
>>>>> the OSPFv3 protocol checking for MTU mismatches is worth relegated
>>>>> OSPFv3 exchange and flooding to the the IPv6 minimum MTU. I'm not
>>>>> sure it does but I'd like to open it up to a brief discussion.
>>>>
>>>> One issue is backward compatibility, if there is any  
>>>> implementation of
>>>> alt draft, then we cannot just change the MTU in the DD packet  
>>>> from  IPv6
>>>> to IPv4 MTU. If we don't worry about backward compatibility (no   
>>>> deployed
>>>> implementation) then we have a shot to define as appropriate.  
>>>> There  are
>>>> couple of options
>>>>
>>>> 1) Paul's proposal however I would add that IPv6 Path MTU discovery
>>>> should be used.
>>>>
>>>> 2) We can set a bit in the DD packet to indicate that the MTU  
>>>> value is
>>>> for both v4 and v6, if this bit is clear (i.e. MTU mismatch  
>>>> between v4
>>>> and v6) then the MTU field in DD packet is for corresponding AF,  
>>>> e.g.
>>>> IPv4 and for IPv6 mtu we have to use 1) (minimum MTU), the   
>>>> advantage of
>>>> this is that unless MTU is really different between v4 and v6  
>>>> you  don't
>>>> blindly reduce the IPv6 mtu
>>>>
>>>> 3) carry the MTU value for both IPv6 and IPv4 either in DD  
>>>> packet  (there
>>>> are unused octet although not contiguous block) or through LLS.
>>>>
>>>> 4) any other options
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The advantage of 2) a part from simplicity is that by not  
>>>> knowing the
>>>> IPv6 MTU we fall back to minimum MTU and adj will be formed, for  
>>>> 3) if
>>>> there is a MTU mismatch then unless you change the rule and  
>>>> state that
>>>> in case of mismatch, default minimum MTU should be used, the adj  
>>>> will
>>>> not be established if we follow the MTU mismatch rule. The only
>>>> advantage of the 3) compared to 2) is that in case IPv4 and IPv6  
>>>> does
>>>> not match AND IPv6 are the same between the system, the actual  
>>>> IPv6  MTU
>>>> (which is carried) is used instead of Minimum MTU.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Sina
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Acee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Wells wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Acee,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I disagree about the "original intent" of the MTU field.
>>>>> As I see
>>>>>>>> it, it's function is to prevent an OSPF adjacency from forming
>>>>>>>> over a link where the endpoints disagree about the link MTU. We
>>>>>>>> do this primarily to prevent the data plane from using a link
>>>>>>>> that will drop packets sent to a system with an MTU smaller  
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> ours.
>>>>>>> I happen to remember the discussion of this problem on the OSPF
>>>>>>> list and this was not the primary motivation. There were lots of
>>>>>>> problems with bridged heterogeneous LANs with mismatched MTUs
>>>>>>> (ethernet, FDDI, token ring, and the worst of all technologies -
>>>>>>> ATM emulated LANs :^).  Adjacencies would come up fine initially
>>>>>>> but the exchange process would hang indefinitely when they were
>>>>>>> restarted due to the router with the larger MTU having a larger
>>>>>>> database and trying to use full DD packets. Unfortunately, the
>>>>>>> OSPF list was hosted on a server at Microsoft Corporation
>>>>> in those
>>>>>>> days and I don't have access to archives. Here is some text from
>>>>>>> RFC 2178, appendix G: G.9 Detecting interface MTU mismatches
>>>>>>>    When two neighboring routers have a different interface
>>>>> MTU for
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>    common network segment, serious problems can ensue: large
>>>>>>> packets are
>>>>>>>    prevented from being successfully transferred from one router
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>    other, impairing OSPF's flooding algorithm and possibly  
>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>    "black holes" for user data traffic.
>>>>>>>    This memo provides a fix for the interface MTU mismatch
>>>>> problem by
>>>>>>>    advertising the interface MTU in Database Description  
>>>>>>> packets.
>>>>>>> When a
>>>>>>>    router receives a Database description packet advertising  
>>>>>>> an MTU
>>>>>>>    larger than the router can receive, the router drops
>>>>> the Database
>>>>>>>    Description packet. This prevents an adjacency from forming,
>>>>>>> telling
>>>>>>>    OSPF flooding and user data traffic to avoid the connection
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>    the two routers. For more information, see Sections
>>>>> 10.6, 10.8,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>    A.3.3.
>>>>>>> On the other hand, once the MTU checking was implemented, I
>>>>>>> believe data plane MTU consistency has been purported as a
>>>>>>> benefit. If we used the IPv4 MTU in the IPv4 address database
>>>>>>> exchanges, we could still have an IPv6 MTU mismatch. One could
>>>>>>> depend on the unicast IPv6 address family for this checking but,
>>>>>>> heretofore, we've kept the instances independent. Thanks,
>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While OSPFv3 certainly needs to know the IPv6 link MTU when
>>>>>>>> building it's packets, this information should be available
>>>>>>>> locally without reference to the MTU field in the DBD packet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, I would argue that in af-alt the MTU in the DBD
>>>>> packet should
>>>>>>>> be for the address family we are routing, not IPv6 in all  
>>>>>>>> cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Acee Lindem wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Prasanna,
>>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Prasanna Kumar A.S wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>   I just wanted to understand what the primary use of
>>>>>>>>>> exchanging  MTU in
>>>>>>>>>> DD packets and doing MTU-check is? Is it only for the control
>>>>>>>>>> plane or
>>>>>>>>>> is it for the DATA-plane?
>>>>>>>>> Control-plane - when sending DD, LSR, and LSU packets, OSPF
>>>>>>>>> will  attempt to send as many LSA headers or complete LSAs as
>>>>>>>>> will fit in a  maximum sized packet.
>>>>>>>>>> Why I am getting this doubt is, in draft-ietf-ospf-af-
>>>>>>>>>> alt-06.txt  doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> specify which MTU we should use while exchanging the DD  
>>>>>>>>>> packet
>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>> ipv4-unicast or ipv4-mutlticast Address-family, is it
>>>>> ipv6-mtu or
>>>>>>>>>> ipv4-mtu?
>>>>>>>>> We have this clarified in the an update which we post soon.
>>>>>>>>> Since  this is OSPFv3 which using IPv6 for transport,
>>>>> you always
>>>>>>>>> use the  IPv6 MTU.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Prasanna
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OSPF mailing list
>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org <mailto:OSPF@ietf.org>
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
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Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 23:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jennifer Christy <jenniferchristy56@yahoo.com>
To: ospf@ietf.org
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Subject: [OSPF] Fw: Tye - 5 and Type -3 LSA issues
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Hi ,=0A=0AWe are using zebra-0.93b in all the routers , installed it in thr=
ee linux boxes.=0A=0AAs per the topology ( PPT attached ) , we have three r=
outers A , B , C in our setup.=0ASteps to reproduce the issue :=0A1. Router=
 A is sending a Type 5 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 ( External Route ) via 11.1=
1.11.11 to Router C.=0A2. Router B is sending a Type 3 LSA route 172.25.25.=
0/24 via 12.12.12.12 to Router C.=0A=0ALet me explain the issue.=0A=0ACase =
1 :=0A=0A1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) =0A2. Then=
 Type - 3 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 from Router B will be ad=
ded to Router C.=0A3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 1=
2.12.12.12. ( Added by Type -3 LSA )=0A4. Enable OSPF in Router C opn inter=
face ( 11.11.11.10 )=0A5. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 from Route=
r A is not added to Router C , because while comparing the Type - 5 and Typ=
e - 3 , its adding the best route as Type - 3 Route.=0A6. So the Router wil=
l have the Type - 3 route in routing table=0A=0ACase 2 : =0A=0A1. Enable OS=
PF in Router C on interface ( 11.11.11.10 ).=0A2. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 1=
72.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 from Router A will be added to Router C.=0A3.=
 Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ( Added by=
 Type -5 LSA )=0A4. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) =
=0A5. Now Type - 3 ( 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 ) is the best route whe=
n compared to Type -5 route =0A( 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ) , so zebr=
a is sending a message to delete the Type -5 route.=0A6. And its sending a =
message to add the Type -3 route.So Type - 3 route is added into the Router=
 C.=0A7. Here the issue starts , again zebra is sending a message to delete=
 the existing the Type - 3 route from the Router C.=0A8. So the Type - 3 ro=
ute is deleted from the routing table , now there is no routes for 172.25.2=
5.0/24 in the routing table.=0A=0AThis is the real issue , not happening wh=
en u enable type -3 first.=0A=0AWe dont know this is an usual behaviour or =
its really an issue=0APlease let us know the this is an already existing is=
sue or if any patch is there for this issue that would be fine.=0A=0AWe wan=
t to know the root cause analysis of this issue .=0AIts a long mail but hop=
e you understand it.=0APlease reply as soon as possible.=0A=0ANote :=0AThe =
issue is reproducible in latest version also ( zebra-0.95a )=A0=0AIf you ne=
ed any help in reproducing / understanding the issue , please let us know.=
=0A=0AThanks in Advance ,=0AJenny=0A=0A=0A      
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Hi ,<BR><BR>We are using zebra-0.93b in all the routers , installed it in three linux boxes.<BR><BR>As per the topology ( PPT attached ) , we have three routers A , B , C in our setup.<BR>Steps to reproduce the issue :<BR>1. Router A is sending a Type 5 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 ( External Route ) via 11.11.11.11 to Router C.<BR>2. Router B is sending a Type 3 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 to Router C.<BR><BR>Let me explain the issue.<BR><BR>Case 1 :<BR><BR>1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) <BR>2. Then Type - 3 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 from Router B will be added to Router C.<BR>3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12. ( Added by Type -3 LSA )<BR>4. Enable OSPF in Router C opn interface ( 11.11.11.10 )<BR>5. Then Type - 5 LSA Route
 172.25.25.0/24 from Router A is not added to Router C , because while comparing the Type - 5 and Type - 3 , its adding the best route as Type - 3 Route.<BR>6. So the Router will have the Type - 3 route in routing table<BR><BR>Case 2 : <BR><BR>1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 11.11.11.10 ).<BR>2. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 from Router A will be added to Router C.<BR>3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ( Added by Type -5 LSA )<BR>4. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) <BR>5. Now Type - 3 ( 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 ) is the best route when compared to Type -5 route <BR>( 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ) , so zebra is sending a message to delete the Type -5 route.<BR>6. And its sending a message to add the Type -3 route.So Type - 3 route is added into the Router C.<BR>7. Here the issue starts , again zebra is sending a message to delete the existing the Type - 3 route
 from the Router C.<BR>8. So the Type - 3 route is deleted from the routing table , now there is no routes for 172.25.25.0/24 in the routing table.<BR><BR>This is the real issue , not happening when u enable type -3 first.<BR><BR>We dont know this is an usual behaviour or its really an issue<BR>Please let us know the this is an already existing issue or if any patch is there for this issue that would be fine.<BR><BR>We want to know the root cause analysis of this issue .<BR>Its a long mail but hope you understand it.<BR>Please reply as soon as possible.<BR><BR>Note :<BR>The issue is reproducible in latest version also ( </FONT><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" face=verdana,arial size=2><A href="ftp://ftp.zebra.org/pub/zebra/zebra-0.95a.tar.gz" target=_blank rel=nofollow>zebra-0.95a</A> )&nbsp;</FONT><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><BR>If you need any help in reproducing / understanding the issue ,
 please let us know.<BR><BR>Thanks in Advance ,<BR>Jenny<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></div><br>



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_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

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From ospf-bounces@ietf.org  Fri May 30 05:08:10 2008
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Jennifer,
This is the wrong list for this question. I suggest you use the Zebra  
List:

    http://www.zebra.org/mailing.html

www.zebra.org contains other useful resources as well.

Having said that, you've definitely found an issue. The zebra daemon  
should not delete the route it just installed.

Good Luck,
Acee

On May 30, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Jennifer Christy wrote:

> Hi ,
>
> We are using zebra-0.93b in all the routers , installed it in three  
> linux boxes.
>
> As per the topology ( PPT attached ) , we have three routers A ,  
> B , C in our setup.
> Steps to reproduce the issue :
> 1. Router A is sending a Type 5 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 ( External  
> Route ) via 11.11.11.11 to Router C.
> 2. Router B is sending a Type 3 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 via  
> 12.12.12.12 to Router C.
>
> Let me explain the issue.
>
> Case 1 :
>
> 1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 )
> 2. Then Type - 3 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 from  
> Router B will be added to Router C.
> 3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12.  
> ( Added by Type -3 LSA )
> 4. Enable OSPF in Router C opn interface ( 11.11.11.10 )
> 5. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 from Router A is not  
> added to Router C , because while comparing the Type - 5 and Type -  
> 3 , its adding the best route as Type - 3 Route.
> 6. So the Router will have the Type - 3 route in routing table
>
> Case 2 :
>
> 1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 11.11.11.10 ).
> 2. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 from  
> Router A will be added to Router C.
> 3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11  
> ( Added by Type -5 LSA )
> 4. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 )
> 5. Now Type - 3 ( 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 ) is the best  
> route when compared to Type -5 route
> ( 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ) , so zebra is sending a message  
> to delete the Type -5 route.
> 6. And its sending a message to add the Type -3 route.So Type - 3  
> route is added into the Router C.
> 7. Here the issue starts , again zebra is sending a message to  
> delete the existing the Type - 3 route from the Router C.
> 8. So the Type - 3 route is deleted from the routing table , now  
> there is no routes for 172.25.25.0/24 in the routing table.
>
> This is the real issue , not happening when u enable type -3 first.
>
> We dont know this is an usual behaviour or its really an issue
> Please let us know the this is an already existing issue or if any  
> patch is there for this issue that would be fine.
>
> We want to know the root cause analysis of this issue .
> Its a long mail but hope you understand it.
> Please reply as soon as possible.
>
> Note :
> The issue is reproducible in latest version also ( zebra-0.95a )
> If you need any help in reproducing / understanding the issue ,  
> please let us know.
>
> Thanks in Advance ,
> Jenny
>
>
>
>
> <issue.ppt>
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


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	charset=ISO-8859-1

<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Jennifer,<div>This is the wrong list for this question. I suggest you =
use the Zebra List:=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=A0=A0=A0<span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.zebra.org/mailing.html">http://www.zebra.org/mailing.ht=
ml</a></span></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div>www.zebra.org contains other =
useful resources as well.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Having said that, =
you've definitely found an issue. The zebra daemon should not delete the =
route it just installed.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Good =
Luck,</div><div>Acee=A0</div><div><div><div><br></div><div>On May 30, =
2008, at 2:28 AM, Jennifer Christy wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif"> =
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif"> <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, =
helvetica, sans-serif"> <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
times new roman, new york, times, serif"><font style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =
verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Hi ,<br><br>We are using =
zebra-0.93b in all the routers , installed it in three linux =
boxes.<br><br>As per the topology ( PPT attached ) , we have three =
routers A , B , C in our setup.<br>Steps to reproduce the issue :<br>1. =
Router A is sending a Type 5 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 ( External Route ) =
via 11.11.11.11 to Router C.<br>2. Router B is sending a Type 3 LSA =
route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 to Router C.<br><br>Let me explain =
the issue.<br><br>Case 1 :<br><br>1. Enable OSPF in Router C on =
interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) <br>2. Then Type - 3 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 =
via 12.12.12.12 from Router B will be added to Router C.<br>3. Now =
Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12. ( Added by =
Type -3 LSA )<br>4. Enable OSPF in Router C opn interface ( 11.11.11.10 =
)<br>5. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 from Router A is not =
added to Router C , because while comparing the Type - 5 and Type - 3 , =
its adding the best route as Type - 3 Route.<br>6. So the Router will =
have the Type - 3 route in routing table<br><br>Case 2 : <br><br>1. =
Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 11.11.11.10 ).<br>2. Then Type - =
5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 from Router A will be added =
to Router C.<br>3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via =
11.11.11.11 ( Added by Type -5 LSA )<br>4. Enable OSPF in Router C on =
interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) <br>5. Now Type - 3 ( 172.25.25.0/24 via =
12.12.12.12 ) is the best route when compared to Type -5 route <br>( =
172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ) , so zebra is sending a message to =
delete the Type -5 route.<br>6. And its sending a message to add the =
Type -3 route.So Type - 3 route is added into the Router C.<br>7. Here =
the issue starts , again zebra is sending a message to delete the =
existing the Type - 3 route from the Router C.<br>8. So the Type - 3 =
route is deleted from the routing table , now there is no routes for =
172.25.25.0/24 in the routing table.<br><br>This is the real issue , not =
happening when u enable type -3 first.<br><br>We dont know this is an =
usual behaviour or its really an issue<br>Please let us know the this is =
an already existing issue or if any patch is there for this issue that =
would be fine.<br><br>We want to know the root cause analysis of this =
issue .<br>Its a long mail but hope you understand it.<br>Please reply =
as soon as possible.<br><br>Note :<br>The issue is reproducible in =
latest version also ( </font><font style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: verdana, =
helvetica, sans-serif" face=3D"verdana,arial" size=3D"2"><a =
href=3D"ftp://ftp.zebra.org/pub/zebra/zebra-0.95a.tar.gz" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">zebra-0.95a</a> )=A0</font><font =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2"><br>If =
you need any help in reproducing / understanding the issue , please let =
us know.<br><br>Thanks in Advance ,<br>Jenny<br>=A0=A0=A0 =
<br><br></font></div></div><br></div></div></div><br>       =
<span>&lt;issue.ppt></span><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">OSPF mailing list</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a =
href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org">OSPF@ietf.org</a></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/ospf</a></div> =
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:45:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jennifer Christy <jenniferchristy56@yahoo.com>
To: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
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Thanks for the reply Acee , and i have already sent mails to zebra from zebra mailing lists
but i didnt get any reply , 

Please send me any active mailing lists for ospf issues

Sorry to disturb again 


----- Original Message ----
From: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
To: Jennifer Christy <jenniferchristy56@yahoo.com>
Cc: ospf@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:38:06 PM
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fw: Tye - 5 and Type -3 LSA issues

Jennifer,
This is the wrong list for this question. I suggest you use the Zebra List: 

   http://www.zebra.org/mailing.html

www.zebra.org contains other useful resources as well. 

Having said that, you've definitely found an issue. The zebra daemon should not delete the route it just installed. 

Good Luck,
Acee 


On May 30, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Jennifer Christy wrote:

Hi ,

We are using zebra-0.93b in all the routers , installed it in three linux boxes.

As per the topology ( PPT attached ) , we have three routers A , B , C in our setup.
Steps to reproduce the issue :
1. Router A is sending a Type 5 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 ( External Route ) via 11.11.11.11 to Router C.
2. Router B is sending a Type 3 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 to Router C.

Let me explain the issue.

Case 1 :

1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) 
2. Then Type - 3 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 from Router B will be added to Router C.
3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12. ( Added by Type -3 LSA )
4. Enable OSPF in Router C opn interface ( 11.11.11.10 )
5. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 from Router A is not added to Router C , because while comparing the Type - 5 and Type - 3 , its adding the best route as Type - 3 Route.
6. So the Router will have the Type - 3 route in routing table

Case 2 : 

1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 11.11.11.10 ).
2. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 from Router A will be added to Router C.
3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ( Added by Type -5 LSA )
4. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) 
5. Now Type - 3 ( 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 ) is the best route when compared to Type -5 route 
( 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ) , so zebra is sending a message to delete the Type -5 route.
6. And its sending a message to add the Type -3 route.So Type - 3 route is added into the Router C.
7. Here the issue starts , again zebra is sending a message to delete the existing the Type - 3 route from the Router C.
8. So the Type - 3 route is deleted from the routing table , now there is no routes for 172.25.25.0/24 in the routing table.

This is the real issue , not happening when u enable type -3 first.

We dont know this is an usual behaviour or its really an issue
Please let us know the this is an already existing issue or if any patch is there for this issue that would be fine.

We want to know the root cause analysis of this issue .
Its a long mail but hope you understand it.
Please reply as soon as possible.

Note :
The issue is reproducible in latest version also ( zebra-0.95a ) 
If you need any help in reproducing / understanding the issue , please let us know.

Thanks in Advance ,
Jenny
    



<issue.ppt>
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Thanks for the reply Acee , and i have already sent mails to zebra from zebra mailing lists<br>but i didnt get any reply , <br><br>Please send me any active mailing lists for ospf issues<br><br>Sorry to disturb again <br><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Acee Lindem &lt;acee@redback.com&gt;<br>To: Jennifer Christy &lt;jenniferchristy56@yahoo.com&gt;<br>Cc: ospf@ietf.org<br>Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:38:06 PM<br>Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fw: Tye - 5 and Type -3 LSA issues<br><br>
Jennifer,<div>This is the wrong list for this question. I suggest you use the Zebra List:&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.zebra.org/mailing.html">http://www.zebra.org/mailing.html</a></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><br></font></div><div>www.zebra.org contains other useful resources as well.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Having said that, you've definitely found an issue. The zebra daemon should not delete the route it just installed.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Good Luck,</div><div>Acee&nbsp;</div><div><div><div><br></div><div>On May 30, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Jennifer Christy wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
 verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><font style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">Hi ,<br><br>We are using zebra-0.93b in all the routers , installed it in three linux boxes.<br><br>As per the topology ( PPT attached ) , we have three routers A , B , C in our setup.<br>Steps to reproduce the issue :<br>1. Router A is sending a Type 5 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 ( External Route ) via 11.11.11.11 to Router C.<br>2. Router B is sending a Type 3 LSA route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 to Router C.<br><br>Let me explain the issue.<br><br>Case 1 :<br><br>1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) <br>2. Then Type - 3 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 from Router B will be added to Router
 C.<br>3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12. ( Added by Type -3 LSA )<br>4. Enable OSPF in Router C opn interface ( 11.11.11.10 )<br>5. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 from Router A is not added to Router C , because while comparing the Type - 5 and Type - 3 , its adding the best route as Type - 3 Route.<br>6. So the Router will have the Type - 3 route in routing table<br><br>Case 2 : <br><br>1. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 11.11.11.10 ).<br>2. Then Type - 5 LSA Route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 from Router A will be added to Router C.<br>3. Now Router C will have the route 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ( Added by Type -5 LSA )<br>4. Enable OSPF in Router C on interface ( 12.12.12.10 ) <br>5. Now Type - 3 ( 172.25.25.0/24 via 12.12.12.12 ) is the best route when compared to Type -5 route <br>( 172.25.25.0/24 via 11.11.11.11 ) , so zebra is sending a message to delete the Type -5 route.<br>6. And its
 sending a message to add the Type -3 route.So Type - 3 route is added into the Router C.<br>7. Here the issue starts , again zebra is sending a message to delete the existing the Type - 3 route from the Router C.<br>8. So the Type - 3 route is deleted from the routing table , now there is no routes for 172.25.25.0/24 in the routing table.<br><br>This is the real issue , not happening when u enable type -3 first.<br><br>We dont know this is an usual behaviour or its really an issue<br>Please let us know the this is an already existing issue or if any patch is there for this issue that would be fine.<br><br>We want to know the root cause analysis of this issue .<br>Its a long mail but hope you understand it.<br>Please reply as soon as possible.<br><br>Note :<br>The issue is reproducible in latest version also ( </font><font style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="verdana,arial" size="2"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
 href="ftp://ftp.zebra.org/pub/zebra/zebra-0.95a.tar.gz">zebra-0.95a</a> )&nbsp;</font><font style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>If you need any help in reproducing / understanding the issue , please let us know.<br><br>Thanks in Advance ,<br>Jenny<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br><br></font></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><span>&lt;issue.ppt&gt;</span><div style="margin: 0px;">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin: 0px;">OSPF mailing list</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:OSPF@ietf.org">OSPF@ietf.org</a></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div><br>



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Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 11:50:38 +0800
From: Zhang Kui <zhangkui747@huawei.com>
To: 'OSPF List' <ospf@ietf.org>
Message-id: <000001c8c2d1$7dd3b900$0101a8c0@china.huawei.com>
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Cc: Chen Jie <jiechen@huawei.com>
Subject: [OSPF] About identifying the neighbor?
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Hi all,

In RFC2328,

"If the receiving interface connects to a broadcast

        network, Point-to-MultiPoint network or NBMA network the sender

        is identified by the IP source address found in the packet's IP

        header.  If the receiving interface connects to a point-to-point

        network or a virtual link, the sender is identified by the

        Router ID (source router) found in the packet's OSPF header."

Why do we do this? Is it ok to identify the neighbor by the router id
regardless of network types?

 

 


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</head>

<body lang=ZH-CN link=blue vlink=purple style='text-justify-trim:punctuation'>

<div class=Section1 style='layout-grid:15.6pt'>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>In RFC2328,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;If
the receiving interface connects to a broadcast<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
network, Point-to-MultiPoint network or NBMA network the sender<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
is identified by the IP source address found in the packet's IP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
header.&nbsp; If the receiving interface connects to a point-to-point<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
network or a virtual link, the sender is identified by the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Router ID (source router) found in the packet's OSPF header.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'>Why do we do
this? Is it ok to identify the neighbor by the router id regardless of network types?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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