From nobody Thu Oct 1 10:28:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8781F1B2E1F for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:28:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fe3_B9ogmpsk for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5A7C1B2DFC for ; 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boundary="_000_D232BB4CBE509serpilciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 17:28:32 -0000 --_000_D232BB4CBE509serpilciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpTdXBwb3J0IGFzIGNvLWF1dGhvcg0KDQpPbiA5LzI2LzE1LCAxMjowNCBQTSwgIkFjZWUgTGlu ZGVtIChhY2VlKSIgPGFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPG1haWx0bzphY2VlQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4+IHdyb3Rl Og0KDQpUaGlzIGRyYWZ0IHdhcyBwcmVzZW50ZWQgaW4gUHJhZ3VlIGFuZCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgY29u c2Vuc3VzIGluIHRoZSByb29tDQp0aGF0IGl0IHdhcyBhIHZhbGlkIHVzZSBjYXNlLiBJdCBwcm92 aWRlcyBwcm90b2NvbCBtZWNoYW5pc21zIHRvDQphYnNvbHV0ZWx5IHByZXZlbnQgdHJhbnNpdCB0 cmFmZmljIGZvciBPU1BGdjIgUm91dGVycyAoUkZDIDY5ODcgb25seQ0KZGlzY291cmFnZXMgdHJh bnNpdCB0cmFmZmljKS4gVGhlIGRyYWZ0IGFsc28gaW5jbHVkZXMgYXNzdXJhbmNlIG9mDQpiYWNr d2FyZCBjb21wYXRpYmlsaXR5Lg0KDQpQbGVhc2UgaW5kaWNhdGUgeW91ciBzdXBwb3J0IChvciBj b25jZXJucykgZm9yIGFkb3B0aW5nIHRoaXMgYXMgYSBXRw0KRG9jdW1lbnQuDQoNClRoYW5rcywN CkFjZWUNCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KT1NQRiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCk9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOk9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29zcGYNCg0K --_000_D232BB4CBE509serpilciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; 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Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:43:00 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-009.cisco.com ([173.36.7.19]) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com ([173.36.7.19]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:43:00 -0500 From: "Evelyn De Souza (evdesouz)" To: "ospf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ/G6WF1KbWxqPV06t0xFiUx/WGp5WxOWAgAACEgA= Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:43:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.5.150821 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.157.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D232BEA1CD7A2evdesouzciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] FW: H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 17:43:02 -0000 --_000_D232BEA1CD7A2evdesouzciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room that it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to absolutely prevent transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only discourages transit traffic). The draft also includes assurance of backward compatibility. --_000_D232BEA1CD7A2evdesouzciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3F8EAA0451ED144AA54B5701A43ACB8A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support
This draft was presen= ted in Prague and there was consensus in the room
that it was a valid u= se case. It provides protocol mechanisms to
absolutely prevent tr= ansit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only
discourages transit t= raffic). The draft also includes assurance of
backward compatibilit= y.

--_000_D232BEA1CD7A2evdesouzciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Oct 1 11:12:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA271A87F2 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:12:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYhETvmCfr72 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FC741A87EC for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:12:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4967; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1443723122; x=1444932722; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=p2wujDNuO/BZIuglht4u34067ear6PWcD32j9ZmMr7c=; b=b/YlLcvNAikGbBi/qLVxSJoz5UJQBKlf3U5Dsdqf1dwJWj85BpfUQu4Z D1OQaC795nXTSJAPZO5JaC0kTn454c/q25OTvlUK5XEBau4ItrkESdSZN 9nGGs5OgqXFwJtWeYVexFVfYtXZWh4BCAg+avTUf/kA/8uOUYnYN7tWJO c=; X-Files: signature.asc : 833 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CwAgDzdg1W/4cNJK1eglpNVG4GvWsOgXEBCYV5gTc4FAEBAQEBAQF/C4QlAQEEAQEBax0BCAQ7LgsUEwQTDoggDadIpC8BAQEBAQEEAQEBAQEBARcEiQOCboUJgyOBFAWSRoMzAYJKgWGIaIFQhDaNCIRWg24BHwFDgkSBPnGIcoEGAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,618,1437436800"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="193488338" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Oct 2015 18:12:02 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t91IBx09029797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:12:00 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:11:59 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:11:58 -0400 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: "ospf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ/HSpF1KbWxqPV06t0xFiUx/WGg== Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:11:58 +0000 Message-ID: <2CB11F42-E0EA-490D-8C65-58FCE1266A12@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.253.79] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3A79F8D4-CBAE-4377-BEA6-9992E2E9A589"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 18:12:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3A79F8D4-CBAE-4377-BEA6-9992E2E9A589 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2B57D9AD-3BF4-472E-A01F-D494A707420A" --Apple-Mail=_2B57D9AD-3BF4-472E-A01F-D494A707420A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I support this. I do think we need to move people to OSPFv3 rather than = update OSPFv2, but this seems straightforward. On 9/26/15, 12:04 PM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" > wrote: This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room that it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to absolutely prevent transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only discourages transit traffic). The draft also includes assurance of backward compatibility. Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG Document. Thanks, Acee _______________________________________________ OSPF mailing list OSPF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf = _______________________________________________ OSPF mailing list OSPF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf --Apple-Mail=_2B57D9AD-3BF4-472E-A01F-D494A707420A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I support this. I do think we need to move people to OSPFv3 rather than update OSPFv2, but this seems straightforward.

On 9/26/15, 12:04 PM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room
that it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to
absolutely prevent transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only
discourages transit traffic). The draft also includes assurance of
backward compatibility.

Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG
Document.

Thanks,
Acee


_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
--Apple-Mail=_2B57D9AD-3BF4-472E-A01F-D494A707420A-- --Apple-Mail=_3A79F8D4-CBAE-4377-BEA6-9992E2E9A589 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIVAwUBVg13b0ayAOS/EQ8MAQKB3hAAkAsQcT4EhgiNdE/YEKrSYgQEeDEE7gBS siqSbKMYi1zxraQ2+5Ihwyj3KQWcRr2zqKCGi0+7FmgKf0XVhRF3ioZL3jR4/xoy vKjBJ7dhG/15rTfvIRuDk+P7rJ/yaFVcl7oRQoRW0U9glyOShvYBxUwdent9JKyf vZXA60R6V43aO7lls8hFL9uDsM0k5Mqe1pwjcaf8JsM+hPAwmSpusL0GjVShkXMi lfINNVeOlbga7KW4EW4Zro5kQdaEnK96324h739aiG5fyyraZhEw72hfFsG8Exyu ZQOcaCsrqc07LB5jIclccx1cYh57TN3lN/ru+PXWSm8MSGGlvScqXaIwMGEGhopH 2Z0uBWLpQsKwm+nKrpUB5itO5m0qNQ5KQ04EjzB3RyN1D//mf9G3Y8yNuZd7kAkC OOywheafzKpBCua57dN0luyd9s0mVPb4SN8HLpWq20a8ZaUjLx02buqZvAeEH2dz ih/NCM7CUrH0gDZ8Z6Oc3m10SNbCh1kovBrscXGhRE8B+BwHTY2wurgC/xT+jGLT CJga0nj0OC82s28aJQ1cm4Ldxhx+UcC5HE9TGLEs3Rd6cxJ3WGIlZLuSCzYsKtHw wZy0AnbtR3jr3Gjf6jCmfzihg3D2mPsX6Ocp/xlLApMS4BnYF23dheseivm+3G9N LIDI/r6BbLE= =VrVZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_3A79F8D4-CBAE-4377-BEA6-9992E2E9A589-- From nobody Thu Oct 1 12:40:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB001A88DF for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cN4ZTJ7B1Wyd for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E7DA1A890C for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=974; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1443728423; x=1444938023; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=64oPFTtVuyE015XCpalNWgE7AGWenRM1NNbOo5yfypw=; b=NY59a8MUBuUmIM4pPUjZIUdv4A90uFN91JP0UMKyAolwp6tLQLDy8vbY DeknvdqW7pqO651/wOx9+jcrqVd6lz436sR6/7HTXRkiIxu9cQF9LOL5+ lAGP1ypcza+CE4hzPely/mJvXoXE/AjI/okN/aupgdE0jEsr10RBEaP1b A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DwAQD7ig1W/40NJK1egydUbga9awENgXEKhXkCgTg4FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQkAQEBBAEBATc0FwQCAQgRBAEBHwkHJwsUCQgCBAESCIgmDct7AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSGc4R+hRQGhCYFlXkBjQ6BVYQ2kV6DbgEfAQFCgkSBPnGIcoEGAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,619,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="193660043" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Oct 2015 19:40:22 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (xch-aln-002.cisco.com [173.36.7.12]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t91JeMUB005311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:40:22 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:40:21 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:40:21 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ+I4sOqe7VD7MpUCLZtUUn93yZp5XEF3g Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:40:21 +0000 Message-ID: <2a657094b3884036bc89a1f0641531b5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.208.14] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:40:24 -0000 Support - similar functionality has proven to be useful in both IS-IS and O= SPFv3. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem > (acee) > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:05 PM > To: OSPF WG List > Subject: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbi= t- > 01 WG Document Adoption Poll >=20 > This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room th= at > it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to absolutely pr= event > transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only discourages transit tra= ffic). > The draft also includes assurance of backward compatibility. >=20 > Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG > Document. >=20 > Thanks, > Acee >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From nobody Thu Oct 1 13:47:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDE21A8840 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:47:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zlvvIyolhWrC for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7F521A872A for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:47:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=632; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1443732454; x=1444942054; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vsd3Gsafv7g0t5ICny0ZBZuIYYs5F/rI6bp5uGI5pRk=; b=S4Jk1LHmnBYOOYGBbZgTHwjkkjaRBkS1zDEJxLSr+ZZqtMS/WfCcEYCM i7xabDVxUhCh/RtPchjsg7cEPYGLDFLZ1f9Sj2hFfrZzOlkOE4afiPkJQ 6XV7DexYl91Gm7yQAKM/MHea+FImHyWIh2a85two1lfwTXLblGyl7CoaF U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AMAgBimw1W/5ldJa1egydUboMrukYBDYFxCoV5AoE4OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEJQEBBAEBASAVNgoRCxgCAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBFTATBgIBAYgqDbc3lEgBAQEBAQEEAQEBAQEZBIEiik+FFBeCUoFDAQSNeIgBjRSBUIQ2gwCOXoNvHwEBQoJEgV4eM4l4AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,619,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="192651641" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Oct 2015 20:47:34 +0000 Received: from [10.154.211.236] ([10.154.211.236]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t91KlX8q025179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 20:47:33 GMT To: ospf@ietf.org References: From: Michael Barnes Message-ID: <560D9BE4.2060405@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:47:32 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 20:47:39 -0000 Support On 09/26/2015 12:04 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room > that it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to > absolutely prevent transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only > discourages transit traffic). The draft also includes assurance of > backward compatibility. > > Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG > Document. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > . > From nobody Thu Oct 1 16:15:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACAD1A9043 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:15:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4_XTcT3Q0NJe for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22D6A1A9042 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:15:08 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f792c6d00000686a-63-560d52c486d4 Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 73.99.26730.4C25D065; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:35:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:15:06 -0400 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ/J8BOqe7VD7MpUCLZtUUn93yZg== Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 23:15:06 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3775FF2AC6D2AE4D967631588FEEE21A@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuO7RIN4wg/V/2Swmv53HbNFy7x67 A5PHlN8bWT2WLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJXx/2kPc8FNtoprrd8ZGxiPs3YxcnJICJhI LP1wignCFpO4cG89WxcjF4eQwFFGib/H3zNCOMsYJW71tINVsQkYSPz/dpwFxBYRcJeYtfIw M4gtLJAr8b/9KxNEPE/izb2LULaexImmfWwgNouAisT11o1gm3kFzCWmL7kBZjMCbf5+ag1Y PbOAuMStJ/OhLhKQWLLnPDOELSrx8vE/sHpRoJkrrzexQcSVJCYtPccK0asjsWD3J6A4B5Bt LbFtcSBEWFti2cLXzBBrBSVOznzCMoFRdBaSbbOQdM9C6J6FpHsWku4FjKyrGDlKi1PLctON DDcxAmPkmASb4w7GBZ8sDzEKcDAq8fAqKPOECbEmlhVX5h5ilOZgURLnnTfjfqiQQHpiSWp2 ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGRvdPyj/vLstdeyje4mj1h/mSBecMP2lprzq+vqtiiaWp8OLI 2n3zzLhEnz08+kHg/a+DcscWmlU0fFr9TM11rlZgCR+/RmDR3Z7lt061WZj3X2qqnt9ZE865 I37utLcZXMbdZzdYXal8dH2S7WQPf9nLttriVlv/TBGbnmi0UjeyKSg2vyvogRJLcUaioRZz UXEiACyC/yNyAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:15:09 -0000 Yes/support Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Date: Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 12:04 PM To: "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll >This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room >that it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to >absolutely prevent transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only >discourages transit traffic). The draft also includes assurance of >backward compatibility. > >Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG >Document. > >Thanks, >Acee > > >_______________________________________________ >OSPF mailing list >OSPF@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From nobody Mon Oct 5 06:44:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABDC1ACDA7 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 06:44:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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15.0.1104.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 08:44:34 -0500 Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.127]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 08:44:34 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Shraddha Hegde , Manav Bhatia Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 Thread-Index: AQHQ+4ijNFXXDTEjokKD/z7x4UOF455Vl+UAgAdpugA= Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 13:44:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.101.220.146] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D237F50C33DC8aceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , "Jalil, Luay" , Mohan Nanduri Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List 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X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [173.36.7.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7793F1684957E449A9D828877E6EEE02@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , Mohan Nanduri , "Jalil, Luay" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 13:48:43 -0000 QW5pbCwgDQoNCk9uIDkvMzAvMTUsIDE6MjUgQU0sICJBbmlsIEt1bWFyIFMgTiAoVlJQIE5ldHdv cmsgQkwpIg0KPGFuaWwuc25AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj5IaSBBbGwsDQo+DQo+SW4g c3VwcG9ydCBvZiB0aGUgZHJhZnQgOiBkcmFmdC1oZWdkZS1vc3BmLWxpbmstb3ZlcmxvYWQtMDEN Cj5EcmFmdCBtYWtlcyBzZW5zZSBpbiBiZWxvdyBzY2VuYXJpbyBJIHN1cHBvc2UsIEkgY291bGQg 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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY1PR0501MB13818065996A9B386CA1EE02D5480BY1PR0501MB1381_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Oct 2015 14:29:46.3518 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1384 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , "Jalil, Luay" , Mohan Nanduri Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 14:30:12 -0000 --_000_BY1PR0501MB13818065996A9B386CA1EE02D5480BY1PR0501MB1381_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t95G39F6025386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:03:09 GMT Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 11:03:09 -0500 Received: from xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com (173.37.183.89) by xch-aln-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 11:03:09 -0500 Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.127]) by xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([173.37.183.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 11:03:09 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Anil Kumar S N (VRP Network BL)" , Pushpasis Sarkar , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Shraddha Hegde Thread-Topic: OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 Thread-Index: AQHQ9/MdJMB0YsR7d0CkMD6XMtCYyZ5RXZAwgACngYCAAOZAsIAAjtgA///5vgCAAANVAIAAHdGAgAAGI4CAAAMzAIAAHeHwgACKfQCAAHadAIAAE9mAgAAL2ACAAAfTAIAIJPKAgABLNID//9qDAA== Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:03:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0E0FB058-0DC6-49BD-95BC-6E64584B1DAD@juniper.net> <03C3AD8C-BA1F-4951-BE7E-367C95535484@juniper.net> <39fe6e2522b0468c8eccff66ec701555@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <6A3F4D8E-4D4F-4E9B-8026-1445B73F9BDE@juniper.net> <327562D94EA7BF428CD805F338C31EF06C06250B@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <327562D94EA7BF428CD805F338C31EF06C063B5C@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <327562D94EA7BF428CD805F338C31EF06C063B5C@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [173.37.102.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4DF85BCB5B4FE54DAA64B098244D0819@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , Mohan Nanduri , "Jalil, Luay" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 16:08:03 -0000 DQoNCk9uIDEwLzUvMTUsIDEwOjE3IEFNLCAiQW5pbCBLdW1hciBTIE4gKFZSUCBOZXR3b3JrIEJM KSINCjxhbmlsLnNuQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+QWNlZSwgDQo+DQo+CUluIE15IGlt cGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLCBJIHNvcnQgYWxsIHRoZSBjb25uZWN0aW5nIGxpbmsgcGF0aHMuDQo+CUkg Y2hvb3NlIGJlc3QgbGluayBjb3N0IGF2YWlsYWJsZSwgaWYgbm90IHRoZW4gSSB3aWxsIHVzZSBs YXN0IHJlc29ydA0KPm1heCBjb3N0IExpbmsgcGF0aC4NCj4NCj4JQW55d2F5cyB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0 IGlzIGNvbXBsaW1lbnRpbmcgeW91ciBjYXNlIDopDQo+DQo+CUEtLS1CDQo+CUxldHMgc2F5IEEg aXMgYSBQIG5vZGUgYW5kIEIgaXMgYSBRIG5vZGUgd2hlcmUgQiBpcyB1bmRlciBtYWludGFpbmNl LA0KPm1ha2VzIEIgdG8gYSBMaW5rIGFzIE1heCBNZXRyaWMuDQo+CU5vdyB5b3Ugd2lsbCBzdGls 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YWludGVuYW5jZSBzaW5jZSB0aGUgbGluayBpcyBzdGlsbCBhIGxhc3QgcmVzb3J0DQo+PiBsaW5r Lg0KPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPltMZXM6XSBXaGljaCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0byBiZSBleGFjdGx5 IHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIG9mIGxpbmsgb2YNCj4+ID4+ID5sYXN0DQo+PiA+PiByZXNvcnQgaS5l LiBpbiB0aGUgYWJzZW5jZSBvZiBhbnkgb3RoZXIgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgdXNlIHRoZSBsaW5rDQo+ PiA+PiB1bmRlcmdvaW5nIG1haW50ZW5hbmNlLg0KPj4gPj4gPj8/DQo+PiA+PiBbUHVzaHBhc2lz XSBXaGF0IGlmIHRoZSBvcGVyYXRvciBkb2VzIG5vdCB3YW50IGFueSB0cmFmZmljIG9uIHRob3Nl DQo+PiA+PiBsaW5rcyBhdCBhbGw/IFNob3VsZCBub3QgdGhlcmUgYmUgYSB3YXkgdG8gZW5zdXJl IHRoYXQgYXMgd2VsbD8NCj4+ID4+DQo+PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gPj4gT1NQRiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+ ID4+IE9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+ID4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vb3NwZg0KPg0KDQo= From nobody Tue Oct 6 02:58:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CC41B3923; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 02:58:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JA0-EbmRwT8t; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 02:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0137.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 707B01B2C70; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 02:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) by BY1PR0501MB1382.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.286.20; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:58:09 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0286.019; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:58:09 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric : Max metric handling Thread-Index: AdEAHKg/Cne5geJ/SzGq6c/Ed/OpoA== Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:58:09 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.11] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0501MB1382; 5:mo+IxK6T7yC6ej468FgtgZ94fgIudkqVV9/RrgSEv5QkUbZV3I7G6IudH/f3AP8VyApygvmHcJUOrG64rLMPio/wVdPjsCeRI5Wh+XiHL4HonjteCwAYRCk5bEz/MtlFSUi5+XT9OZd0UPGRA+OByQ==; 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SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(102836002)(10400500002)(5007970100001)(450100001)(74316001)(106356001)(110136002)(5008740100001)(40100003)(189998001)(15975445007)(5001960100002)(5003600100002)(2351001)(11100500001)(122556002)(5004730100002)(105586002)(76576001)(64706001)(77096005)(5002640100001)(97736004)(19580395003)(81156007)(66066001)(101416001)(229853001)(46102003)(230783001)(99286002)(86362001)(2900100001)(87936001)(50986999)(54356999)(33656002)(2501003)(92566002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1382; H:BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY1PR0501MB138192B8D1A44024E5BAD8D9D5370BY1PR0501MB1381_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Oct 2015 09:58:09.1243 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1382 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: [OSPF] draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric : Max metric handling X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 09:58:16 -0000 --_000_BY1PR0501MB138192B8D1A44024E5BAD8D9D5370BY1PR0501MB1381_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authors, As per my understanding of the draft, SPF calculation uses sum of metric fr= om the interface cost and the network to router cost advertised by the neig= hbor. Handling of MAX metric is not described in the draft. Since the metric wil= l be sum of 2 16 bit numbers it can exceed the normal 0xffff metric value a= nd the draft should talk about how to handle these cases. Rgds Shraddha --_000_BY1PR0501MB138192B8D1A44024E5BAD8D9D5370BY1PR0501MB1381_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Authors,
 
As per my understanding of the draft, SPF calculation uses sum of metr= ic from the interface cost and the network to router cost advertised by the= neighbor.
Handling of MAX metric is not described in the draft.  Since the = metric will be sum of 2 16 bit numbers it can exceed the normal 0xffff metr= ic value and the draft should talk about how to handle these cases.
 
Rgds
Shraddha
 
 
 --_000_BY1PR0501MB138192B8D1A44024E5BAD8D9D5370BY1PR0501MB1381_-- From nobody Tue Oct 6 08:23:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1647A1B40B3; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:23:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VXjAHNG12ZLI; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.rob.sh (cappuccino.rob.sh [IPv6:2a03:9800:10:4c::cafe:b00c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD6B81B40EA; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [217.38.139.11] (helo=corretto.local) by cappuccino.rob.sh with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZjU4l-0008UX-3v; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 16:22:47 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 16:23:03 +0100 From: Rob Shakir To: "=?utf-8?Q?as=40cisco.com?=" , =?utf-8?Q?Black=2C_David?= , "=?utf-8?Q?bruno.decraene=40orange.com?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?ops-dir=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?shraddha=40juniper.net?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?General_Area_Review_Team_(gen-art=40ietf.org)?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?lizhenbin=40huawei.com?=" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (331) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?ospf=40ietf.org?=" , =?utf-8?Q?Black=2C_David?= , "=?utf-8?Q?ietf=40ietf.org?=" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 15:23:15 -0000 Hi David, On October 6, 2015 at 00:37:42, Black, David (david.black=40emc.com) wrot= e: > > As an OPS-Dir member, I'm concerned by the above R=46C 5706 answers, = =20 > and in particular treating all operational issues as vendor- =20 > and/or > operator-specific. One possible alternative would be to scope =20 > the > draft down to interoperably specify what's needed for L=46A I=E2=80=99ll quote this part of your mail, but respond to the general que= stion around whether this draft should be tighter scoped (and the operati= onal considerations of what one can do with the mechanism). In general, this mechanism is meant to give ways for an operator to add t= heir own logic on-top of the routing protocol selection of the OSP=46 pro= tocol. Specifically, this is for the case where there are sets of paths t= hat OSP=46 considers valid, but the operator has a particular preference = for a particular subset to be included or excluded. To this end, the harm= that one can do by preferring paths with a particular admin tag (or set = of admin tags) on them is simply to select a subset of the paths that wou= ld have been used anwyay.=C2=A0 So, from the examples in the document, the admin tag lets one: * Prefer a specific L=46A from a set of valid=C2=A0L=46As. The operator = has a business reason to prefer specific ones (e.g., OSP=46 metric is set= based on bandwidth, but we want to minimise latency, or we only want to = capacity plan for =46RR between P nodes never transiting a PE). There are= many different reasons that one might have this preference, and they wil= l be different by operator - so, removing the ability of an operator to s= pecify arbitrary tags will make this mechanism ineffective. Whilst there = could be unintended consequences of preferring specific L=46As, actually = there are probably worse consequences of NOT preferring particular L=46As= , such as traffic going via a PE in another country such that latency is = increased over all other L=46As. Bruno and Stephane from =46T have given = many examples of this in the L=46A manageability drafts presented in RTGW= G. The admin tag will never result in a new L=46A that would never have b= een selected via the standardised mechanisms being selected - so, in my v= iew, has little potential to cause new =E2=80=98harm=E2=80=99. =09 * Prefer a specific path from a set of paths. This is similar to the cas= e above. No new candidate path is being added to the routes that could be= used by the admin tag mechanism. It simply says that when a device that = must select N ECMPs to install from M candiates (N < M), then the operato= r can influence which based on the admin tag. All are still valid ECMPs -= so new risk is created. Again, selecting a particular subset of that M w= ithout any consideration may be more harmful than doing the operator-spec= ific selection. Again, the logic of which are =E2=80=98OK=E2=80=99 PEs an= d which are not is something that is operator specific, and may only appl= y to a subset of applications using OSP=46 to select paths (an example of= this is devices that do not scale well as MPLS-TE midpoints, but are OK = for transit IP traffic - at this point, we may want to influence CSP=46 t= o stay away from them, but not IP - the fact that these devices are =E2=80= =98not-OK-for-transit-MPLS-TE=E2=80=99 is not something that we can easil= y enumerate and standardise). Given that we are really selecting candidates from within a set of paths = that have already been selected by OSP=46 as valid, and usable - then I=E2= =80=99m not sure that I can understand the logic behind this sentence fro= m your review: =22There appears to be more than enough enabled by this dr= aft to wreak serious operational havoc=E2=80=9D. I strongly disagree with the idea that we should try and enumerate what t= he tags should be, rather than maintain the ability of an operator to add= their own specific logic with these tags. This is what is done today wit= h link affinity, or tags elsehwere in the IGP protocols.=C2=A0 Re-reading the draft, perhaps we need to clarify that this does not chang= e the underlying SP=46 process that OSP=46 uses today - would this addres= s your concern=3F Regards, r. From nobody Tue Oct 6 09:39:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606E81ACE24; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:39:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rJ02dFam7a7W; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C828A1ACC88; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2AFA022C541; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:39:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.32]) by omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EEC0127C058; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:39:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8924:188:2124:a046%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:39:47 +0200 From: To: "Black, David" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 Thread-Index: AdD/xnlyIy25ziWfRACBnPhaH7xx5wAi84UA Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 16:39:47 +0000 Message-ID: <31410_1444149588_5613F954_31410_14661_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F66F7E8@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.10.6.155715 Archived-At: Cc: "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "General Area Review Team \(gen-art@ietf.org\)" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "as@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 16:39:53 -0000 Hi David, Thanks for your careful review. Regarding you major issue: > ---- Major issues: ---- >=20 > [1] Operational considerations: There appears to be more than enough > enabled by this draft to wreak serious operational havoc, but the draft > seems to sidestep all operational topics, primarily by treating all > usage of tags as vendor- or implementation- specific and trusting the > vendors and operators not to foul things up. I'm not sure that's wise. May be the draft is missing some text on some points, but I don't share thi= s _major_ concern (regarding the operation use of tags): - their use in routing protocols is not new and we have a large operational= feedback on this. e.g. 8 years with IS-IS prefix tags (RFC 5130), and espe= cially 20 years with BGP community (RFC 1997) which are heavily used by all= network operators, including between Autonomous System/Administrative Doma= ins (which is beyond OSPF usage) - they are meant to ease network operation. We could probably do everything= you can think of without node tags, e.g. by referencing each node individu= ally using its loopback address or router ID. But this would be more error = prone and difficult to maintain over time. I would note that the abstract = of RFC 1997 states that BGP community has been defined to "reduce the manag= ement complexity of maintaining the Internet".=20 And +1 on Rob's comment Regards, Bruno > From: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October = 06, 2015 1:35 AM >=20 > This is a combined Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review. Boilerplate for both foll= ows > ... >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on > Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at: >=20 > . >=20 > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments > you may receive. >=20 > I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's > ongoing > effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These > comments > were written primarily for the benefit of the operational area directors. > Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any > other > last call comments. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 > Reviewer: David Black > Review Date: October 5, 2015 > IETF LC End Date: October 8, 2015 > IESG Telechat date: October 15, 2015 >=20 > Summary: This draft is on the right track, but has open issues > described in the review. >=20 > This is a generally well-written draft about adding administrative tags f= or > operational use to OSPF. The draft is clear, and the material on how the > tags could be used is helpful, although raises a number of concerns about > the consequences of the intended usage of these tags. >=20 > ---- Major issues: ---- >=20 > [1] Operational considerations: There appears to be more than enough > enabled by this draft to wreak serious operational havoc, but the draft > seems to sidestep all operational topics, primarily by treating all > usage of tags as vendor- or implementation- specific and trusting the > vendors and operators not to foul things up. I'm not sure that's wise. >=20 > See end of OPS-Dir review below for more on this concern. >=20 > --- Minor issues: ---- >=20 > -- 3.2 Elements of procedure: >=20 > [A] I see what look like some underspecified requirements: >=20 > Each tag SHOULD be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be > used in policy to perform a policy action. >=20 > The administrative tag list within the > TLV SHOULD be considered an unordered list. >=20 > Why are those two not "MUST" requirements? What happens if either > is not done? >=20 > [B] Tag set completeness: >=20 > Multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY appear in an RI LSA or > multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY be contained in different > instances of the RI LSA. The node administrative tags associated > with a node for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD > be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all > instances of the RI LSA originated by that node. >=20 > This paragraph is about processing at that node. It's easy to misread, > as that implication is buried in the word "originated" in the last line. > Suggested change: >=20 > "for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD" -> > "for the purpose of any computation or processing performed > at that node SHOULD" >=20 > Also, it looks like it's acceptable for other nodes to perform such > computation or processing based on a partial tag set for this node > (e.g., when some other node has not received all the RI LSAs with all > the tags). That should be stated. >=20 > [C] Tag change/removal: >=20 > When there is a change in the node administrative tag TLV or removal/ > addition of a TLV in any instance of the RI-LSA, implementations MUST > take appropriate measures to update its state according to the > changed set of tags. Exact actions depend on features working with > administrative tags and is outside of scope of this specification. >=20 > Inability to interoperably remove a tag value (e.g., distribute the > update that tag X no longer applies to node Q) seems like a significant > omission, but I'm not a routing expert, so I'll defer to the WG's and > ADs' judgment on the importance of this. At a minimum, the rationale > for not specifying an interoperable tag value removal mechanism ought > to be added to this document. >=20 > [D] No management support >=20 > From OPS-Dir Q&A: At a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be > defined via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. >=20 > --- Nits/editorial comments: ---- >=20 > -- 1. Introduction >=20 > The Abstract says that the tags are for "route and path selection"; the > Introduction should also say that. Suggestion - at the end of this sente= nce > in the first paragraph: >=20 > It is useful to assign a per-node administrative tag to a router in > the OSPF domain and use it as an attribute associated with the node. >=20 > add the text "for route and path selection". This will help with the > second sentence in the second paragraph: >=20 > Path selection is a functional set > which applies both to TE and non-TE applications and hence new TLV > for carrying per-node administrative tags is included in Router > Information LSA [RFC4970] . >=20 > If "path selection" and "functional set" are specific terms with > specialized meaning in OSPF context, that sentence is fine as-is, > otherwise it would read better if it began with: >=20 > Route and path selection functionality applies to both ... >=20 > -- 3.1. TLV format >=20 > Type : TBA, Suggested value 10 >=20 > Please add an RFC Editor Note asking the RFC Editor to replace this with > the actual IANA-assigned value. >=20 > -- 3.2. Elements of procedure >=20 > While it's obvious that tag usage should be confined to the administrative > domain that understands the tag, it's worth stating. At the end of this > sentence: >=20 > Interpretation of tag values is specific to the administrative domain > of a particular network operator. >=20 > I'd suggest adding: >=20 > , and hence tag values SHOULD NOT be propagated outside the > administrative domain to which they apply. >=20 > -- 4.4. Mobile back-haul network service deployment >=20 > Please expand "eNodeB" acronym on first use. >=20 > -- 4.5. Explicit routing policy >=20 > In Figure 3: > - The link from the leftmost pair of A nodes to the pair of T nodes > do not have link weights. > - The link from the left R node to the left T node does not have a > link weight > - The following example of an explicitly routed policy: >=20 > - Traffic from A nodes to I nodes must not go through R and T > nodes >=20 > prevents the leftmost pair of A nodes from sending traffic to the > I nodes. Was this "black hole" intended as part of the example? >=20 > Also: "explicitly routed policies" -> "explicit routing policies" >=20 > - 5. Security considerations >=20 > I'd add discussion that advertisement of tag values for one administrative > domain into another risks misinterpretation of the tag values (if the two > domains have assigned different meanings to the same values), which may > have undesirable and unanticipated side effects. >=20 > In addition, injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF > traffic that appears to be from a node in the domain and carries > administrative tag values) is at least a possible denial-of-service attack > vector, and could also be used for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute > otherwise unobservable [to the attacker] VPN traffic via a route where > the attacker can observe it). >=20 > idnits 2.13.02 did not find any nits. >=20 > ---- Selected RFC 5706 Appendix A Q&A for OPS-Dir review ---- >=20 > A.1.2. Has installation and initial setup been discussed? > A.1.5. Has the impact on network operation been discussed? > A.1.6. Have suggestions for verifying correct operation been discussed? >=20 > No - given the impact that these tags could have on route and path > computation, likely implementations will be powerful "guns" > with which network operators can readily shoot themselves > in far more than just their "feet." These > considerations would have to be documented based on the > specific uses made of these tags by specific implementations > and deployments. All of that appears to be outside the scope > of this draft. >=20 > A.1.7. Has management interoperability been discussed? >=20 > No - at a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be defined > via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. > This is minor issue [D]. >=20 > A.1.8. Are there fault or threshold conditions that should be reported? >=20 > Yes, but they're implementation-specific - see response to > A.1.[2,5,6] above. >=20 > A.2. Management Considerations > Do you anticipate any manageability issues with the specification? >=20 > Yes, manageability has been largely ignored. >=20 > A.3. Documentation >=20 > Is an operational considerations and/or manageability section part of > the document? >=20 > No. >=20 > Does the proposed protocol have a significant operational impact on > the Internet? >=20 > Yes, the anticipated uses will. >=20 > Is there proof of implementation and/or operational experience? >=20 > Nothing was stated in the draft or shepherd write-up. >=20 > As an OPS-Dir member, I'm concerned by the above RFC 5706 answers, > and in particular treating all operational issues as vendor- and/or > operator-specific. One possible alternative would be to scope the > draft down to interoperably specify what's needed for LFA, as > indicated by this answer from the Shepherd write-up: >=20 > (9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it > represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others > being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? >=20 > There is consensus from the WG and others outside the WG that > this document can progress. It complements work done on LFA > manageability in the RTG Working Group. >=20 > Another alternative could be Experimental RFC status for the full > tag mechanism (e.g., to figure out what it'll be used for in practice, > how and why) rather than Proposed Standard. >=20 > This is major issue [1]. >=20 > Thanks, > --David > ---------------------------------------------------- > David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer > EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA=A0 01748 > +1 (508) 293-7953=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7= 786 > david.black@emc.com=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 > ---------------------------------------------------- >=20 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Tue Oct 6 10:22:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450721AD084; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bIhLv_GGQnaO; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.rob.sh (cappuccino.rob.sh [IPv6:2a03:9800:10:4c::cafe:b00c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19B571AD09A; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [217.38.139.11] (helo=corretto.local) by cappuccino.rob.sh with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZjVvm-0000WV-9f; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 18:21:38 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:21:53 +0100 From: Rob Shakir To: "=?utf-8?Q?as=40cisco.com?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?bruno.decraene=40orange.com?=" , =?utf-8?Q?Black=2C_David?= , "=?utf-8?Q?ops-dir=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?shraddha=40juniper.net?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?General_Area_Review_Team_(gen-art=40ietf.org)?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?lizhenbin=40huawei.com?=" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (331) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?ospf=40ietf.org?=" , =?utf-8?Q?Black=2C_David?= , "=?utf-8?Q?ietf=40ietf.org?=" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:22:07 -0000 On October 6, 2015 at 17:46:41, Black, David (david.black=40emc.com) wrot= e: > Rob, > =20 > > Given that we are really selecting candidates from within a set of pa= ths that > > have already been selected by OSP=46 as valid, and usable - then I=E2= =80=99m not sure > > that I can understand the logic behind this sentence from your review= : =22There > > appears to be more than enough enabled by this draft to wreak serious= > > operational havoc=E2=80=9D. > =20 > Perhaps, I'm not understanding something, but I thought I saw an unreac= hability > problem in the example in Section 4.5/=46igure 3: > =20 > - The following example of an explicitly routed policy: > =20 > - Traffic from A nodes to I nodes must not go through R and T > nodes > =20 > prevents the leftmost pair of A nodes from sending traffic to the > I nodes. Was this =22black hole=22 intended as part of the example=3F > =20 > Was that a mistake, and at least one path from the leftmost pair of A n= odes > to the I nodes will be selected despite that =22explicitly routed polic= y=E2=80=9D=3F If the operator chooses to deny prefixes being installed in the RIB based= on these tags, then yes, they could end up with unreachability problems.= However, an operator can do this today with any routing policy (a number= of implementations already have inbound route filtering) - we should not= prevent this kind of mechanism based on the fact that an erroneous confi= g might be problematic. In the case that the operator *preferences* things based on the tags, the= n this would not be an unreachability problem - OSP=46 would still correc= tly determine that there is a path between all nodes in the pictured netw= ork - and this would be installed in the RIB as per normal operation. (My memory is not 100% clear on whether this is intended as part of the e= xample, if it is, then the text should be clarified I agree.) Kind regards, r. From nobody Wed Oct 7 00:08:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DEC1B2B55; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 00:08:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_35=0.6, MANGLED_MEDS=2.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wu9eZZNMn2RT; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 00:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0111.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31AE01B2B2C; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 00:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.286.20; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:08:17 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0286.019; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:08:17 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Black, David" , Rob Shakir , "as@cisco.com" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org)" , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 Thread-Index: AdEAjEvpIy25ziWfRACBnPhaH7xx5wAQREsQ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:08:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP 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2015 02:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACEA21B2CF3; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 02:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 01401264395; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 11:48:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.60]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id B5A4335C10E; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 11:48:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c1d7:e278:e357:11ad%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 11:48:04 +0200 From: To: Shraddha Hegde , "Black, David" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 Thread-Index: AdEAjEvpIy25ziWfRACBnPhaH7xx5wAQREsQAATpLwA= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 09:48:03 +0000 Message-ID: <20393_1444211284_5614EA54_20393_2671_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F670AC7@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.10.7.91516 Archived-At: Cc: "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "General Area Review Team \(gen-art@ietf.org\)" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "as@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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mxhub31.corp.emc.com (mxhub31.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.171]) by mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id t97EoKcJ024979 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:50:20 -0400 Received: from MXHUB105.corp.emc.com (10.253.50.22) by mxhub31.corp.emc.com (128.222.70.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.327.1; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:50:20 -0400 Received: from MX104CL02.corp.emc.com ([169.254.8.74]) by MXHUB105.corp.emc.com ([10.253.50.22]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:50:19 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Shraddha Hegde , Rob Shakir , "as@cisco.com" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org)" , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 - Editorial comments and nits Thread-Index: AdEBD3anXKd+jq58TPOOmx2JnY0dfA== Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:50:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.105.56.29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "Black, David" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 - Editorial comments and nits X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 14:50:51 -0000 TW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgbml0cy9lZGl0b3JpYWwgY29tbWVudHMgYXJlIGZpbmUuICBUd28gZm9sbG93 LXVwczoNCg0KPiAtLSAzLjEuICBUTFYgZm9ybWF0DQo+IA0KPiAgICBUeXBlIDogVEJBLCBTdWdn ZXN0ZWQgdmFsdWUgMTANCj4gDQo+IFBsZWFzZSBhZGQgYW4gUkZDIEVkaXRvciBOb3RlIGFza2lu 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ZSBpbmJvdW5kIHJvdXRlDQo+ID4gZmlsdGVyaW5nKSAtIHdlIHNob3VsZCBub3QgcHJldmVudCB0 aGlzIGtpbmQgb2YgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGJhc2VkIG9uIA0KPiA+IHRoZSBmYWN0IHRoYXQgYW4gZXJy b25lb3VzIGNvbmZpZyBtaWdodCBiZSBwcm9ibGVtYXRpYy4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IEluIHRoZSBjYXNl IHRoYXQgdGhlIG9wZXJhdG9yICpwcmVmZXJlbmNlcyogdGhpbmdzIGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSANCj4g PiB0YWdzLCB0aGVuIHRoaXMgd291bGQgbm90IGJlIGFuIHVucmVhY2hhYmlsaXR5IHByb2JsZW0g LSBPU1BGIHdvdWxkIA0KPiA+IHN0aWxsIGNvcnJlY3RseSBkZXRlcm1pbmUgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBp cyBhIHBhdGggYmV0d2VlbiBhbGwgbm9kZXMgaW4gDQo+ID4gdGhlIHBpY3R1cmVkIG5ldHdvcmsg LSBhbmQgdGhpcyB3b3VsZCBiZSBpbnN0YWxsZWQgaW4gdGhlIFJJQiBhcyBwZXIgDQo+ID4gbm9y bWFsDQo+IG9wZXJhdGlvbi4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IChNeSBtZW1vcnkgaXMgbm90IDEwMCUgY2xlYXIg b24gd2hldGhlciB0aGlzIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgDQo+ID4gdGhlIGV4YW1wbGUs IGlmIGl0IGlzLCB0aGVuIHRoZSB0ZXh0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBjbGFyaWZpZWQgSSBhZ3JlZS4pDQo+ ID4NCj4gPiBLaW5kIHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ID4gci4NCg== From nobody Thu Oct 8 05:50:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BDC1B335D for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 05:50:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dSJqReDKWfeQ for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 05:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ENFIRHETS1.metaswitch.com (enfirhets1.metaswitch.com [192.91.191.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B5D61B3363 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 05:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ENFIRHCAS1.datcon.co.uk (172.18.74.33) by ENFIRHETS1.metaswitch.com (172.18.209.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.248.2; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:50:12 +0100 Received: from ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk ([fe80::d5d5:c683:a3be:3a19]) by ENFIRHCAS1.datcon.co.uk ([fe80::85a7:aa4e:2516:c2ad%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:50:24 +0100 From: Alan Davey To: "ospf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-yang-02 questions and doubts Thread-Index: AdEBx7vD5s3ZOYb6QcWXFHL0G85eEw== Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:50:23 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.18.209.34] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C2EE31C852049D499842B19FC01C0804011A65C395ENFICSMBX1dat_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] draft-ietf-ospf-yang-02 questions and doubts X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:50:32 -0000 --_000_C2EE31C852049D499842B19FC01C0804011A65C395ENFICSMBX1dat_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks I have read draft-ietf-ospf-yang-02 and have some questions and doubts. Pl= ease let me know your thoughts on the following. - There are some concepts that appear to be implementation specifi= c. For example, should the following be part of the OSPF Yang definition? o admin-distance: this is not an OSPF concept that I am familiar with. A= dministrative distance is commonly used for comparing the usability of rout= es originating from different protocols and not associated specifically wit= h an OSPF instance. o nsr: there is no IETF standard for NSR. o local-rib: OSPF may be one of a number of routing protocols running on = a router and therefore the local RIB is not OSPF-specific. o container ldp: should this be part of the OSPF Yang? - Conversely, should configuration of IGP shortcut support be adde= d to the Yang definition? - There are some options that I would expect to see for the instan= ce-config that are not present. Are there any plans to add other options? = For example, the following. o Configuring the instance as an ASBR. o Support for traffic engineering. o The ospfRFC1583Compatibility field defined in RFC 4750. - The text is OSPFv2-centric in places. For example: o leaf router-id and grouping interface-operation : the description field= s references RFC 2328. Should this also refer to RFC 5340 for the OSPFv3 c= ase? o The grouping interface-operation * does not include the instance ID * dr and bdr leaves have type:ipv4-address. o container graceful-restart : description "Enable/Disable graceful resta= rt as defined in RFC 3623." (Note that the feature graceful-restart does r= eference RFC 5187, OSPFv3 Graceful Restart.) o container te-rid: refers to IPv4 addresses in several places. - The TE (Traffic Engineering) configuration is specified within "= container mpls". Is it safe to assume that TE configuration is always mpls= -related? It may be better to make it non-specific about the usage of the = TE information. - I found the "container stub-router" confusing. In particular, t= he different description fields. For example, I failed to understand the f= ollowing. o "Specific different triggers to enable stub router." for the choice tri= gger description o "Enables maximum metric for non-stub router link" for the presence. Regards Alan Davey --_000_C2EE31C852049D499842B19FC01C0804011A65C395ENFICSMBX1dat_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks

 

I have read draft-ietf-ospf-yang-02 and have some qu= estions and doubts.  Please let me know your thoughts on the following= .

 

-          There are some concepts that appear to be implementation specific. F= or example, should the following be part of the OSPF Yang definition?<= /o:p>

 

o   admin-distance: this is not an OSPF concept that I am familiar with.=  Administrative distance is commonly used for comparing the usability= of routes originating from different protocols and not associated specific= ally with an OSPF instance.

 

o   nsr: there is no IETF standard for NSR. 

 

o   local-rib: OSPF may be one of a number of routing protocols running = on a router and therefore the local RIB is not OSPF-specific.

 

o   container ldp: should this be part of the OSPF Yang?

 

-     &= nbsp;    Conversely, should configuration of IGP shortcut su= pport be added to the Yang definition?

 

-          There are some options that I would expect to see for the instance-c= onfig that are not present.  Are there any plans to add other options?=   For example, the following.

 

o   Configuring the instance as an ASBR.

o   Support for traffic engineering.

o   The ospfRFC1583Compatibility field defined in RFC 4750. <= /p>

 

-          The text is OSPFv2-centric in places.  For example:<= /p>

 

o   leaf router-id and grouping interface-operation : the description fi= elds references RFC 2328.  Should this also refer to RFC 5340 for the = OSPFv3 case?

o   The grouping interface-operation

=A7  does not include the instance ID

=A7  dr and bdr leaves have type:ipv4-address.

o   container graceful-restart : description “Enable/Disable grace= ful restart as defined in RFC 3623.”  (Note that the feature gra= ceful-restart does reference RFC 5187, OSPFv3 Graceful Restart.)=

o   container te-rid: refers to IPv4 addresses in several places.

 

-          The TE (Traffic Engineering) configuration is specified within ̶= 0;container mpls”.  Is it safe to assume that TE configuration i= s always mpls-related?  It may be better to make it non-specific about= the usage of the TE information.

 

-          I found the “container stub-router” confusing.  In = particular, the different description fields.  For example, I failed t= o understand the following. 

o   "Specific different triggers to enable stub router." for t= he choice trigger description

o   "Enables maximum metric for non-stub router link" for the = presence.

 

Regards

Alan Davey

 

 

--_000_C2EE31C852049D499842B19FC01C0804011A65C395ENFICSMBX1dat_-- From nobody Thu Oct 8 09:56:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98C91AC3E4 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gkm5tXdyh5Zk for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client 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X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "Black, David" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06: A-D issues X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 17:51:23 -0000 U2hyYWRkYSwNCg0KV2UncmUgdmVyeSBjbG9zZSB0byBkb25lIGhlcmUsIHRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhl IHVwZGF0ZWQgdGV4dC4NCg0KSSBoYXZlIG9uZSBtb3JlIGNvbmNlcm4gb24gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24g Y29tcGxldGVuZXNzIHZzLiB0YWcgcmVtb3ZhbA0KKEknbGwgZGVhbCB3L1sxXSBhbmQgdGhlIG5l dyBPcGVyYXRpb25hbCBDb25zaWRlcmF0aW9ucyB0ZXh0IGluIGENCnNlcGFyYXRlIG1lc3NhZ2Up Og0KDQpUaGUgbGFzdCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggaW4gU2VjdGlvbiAzLjIgb2YgdGhlIHByb3Bvc2VkLWZv ci0wNyB0ZXh0IHNheXM6DQoNCiAgIE9uIHRoZSByZWNlaXZlciwgV2hlbiB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIGNo YW5nZSBpbg0KICAgdGhlIG5vZGUgYWRtaW5pc3RyYXRpdmUgdGFnIFRMViBvciByZW1vdmFsLyBh 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8.3.327.1; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:03:39 -0400 Received: from MX104CL02.corp.emc.com ([169.254.8.74]) by MXHUB206.corp.emc.com ([10.253.68.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:03:38 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , Shraddha Hegde Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06: [1] Operational Considerations Thread-Index: AdEB86VKx1ytIPpWR5CQB/I+kYuhWA== Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:03:37 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.238.45.83] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "Black, David" , "General Area Review Team \(gen-art@ietf.org\)" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "as@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06: [1] Operational Considerations X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:04:15 -0000 VGhlIG5ldyBPcGVyYXRpb25hbCBDb25zaWRlcmF0aW9ucyB0ZXh0IHRoYXQgU2hyYWRkYSBzZW50 IG91dCBsb29rcyBnb29kLg0KDQpJJ2QgbGlrZSB0byBtYWtlIG9uZSBzbWFsbCBjaGFuZ2UgdG8g YXZvaWQgb3ZlcnVzaW5nIHRoZSBjb25jZXB0IG9mDQpwcmVmZXJlbmNlL3ByZWZlcnJlZDoNCg0K ICAgRGVmaW5pbmcgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgZm9yIGxvY2FsIHBvbGljaWVzIGlzIG91dHNpZGUgdGhlIHNj b3BlIG9mIHRoaXMNCiAgIGRvY3VtZW50LiAgQXMgaW4gY2FzZSBvZiBvdGhlciBwb2xpY3kgYXBw bGljYXRpb25zLCB0aGUgcHJ1bmluZw0KICAgcG9saWNpZXMgY2FuIGNhdXNlIHRoZSBwYXRoIHRv IGJlIGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgcmVtb3ZlZCBmcm9tIGZvcndhcmRpbmcNCk9MRA0KICAgcGxhbmUsIGhl bmNlIGFyZSBsZXNzIHByZWZlcnJlZCB0aGFuIHRoZSBwcmVmZXJlbmNlIHBvbGljaWVzLg0KTkVX 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Oct 2015 16:07:10 -0500 Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.127]) by xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([173.37.183.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:07:10 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Shraddha Hegde , Pushpasis Sarkar Thread-Topic: OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 Thread-Index: AQHQ9/MdJMB0YsR7d0CkMD6XMtCYyZ5RXZAwgACngYCAAOZAsIAAjtgA///5vgCAAANVAIAAHdGAgAAGI4CAAAMzAIAAHeHwgA5/OYA= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:07:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0E0FB058-0DC6-49BD-95BC-6E64584B1DAD@juniper.net> <03C3AD8C-BA1F-4951-BE7E-367C95535484@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.101.220.151] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <039EAF7EC065C846BF9226E01E05AAF4@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , Mohan Nanduri , "Jalil, Luay" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link 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Transport; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:51:25 -0500 Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.127]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 16:51:26 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Black, David" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , Shraddha Hegde Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06: [1] Operational Considerations Thread-Index: AdEB86VKx1ytIPpWR5CQB/I+kYuhWAAKC5uA Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:51:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.101.220.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "General Area Review Team \(gen-art@ietf.org\)" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "as@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06: [1] Operational 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2015 03:48:58.0682 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1386 Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06: A-D issues X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 03:49:04 -0000 RGF2aWQsDQoNClBscyBzZWUgaW5saW5lLi4uDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0t DQpGcm9tOiBCbGFjaywgRGF2aWQgW21haWx0bzpkYXZpZC5ibGFja0BlbWMuY29tXSANClNlbnQ6 IFRodXJzZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDA4LCAyMDE1IDExOjIxIFBNDQpUbzogU2hyYWRkaGEgSGVnZGUg PHNocmFkZGhhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PjsgUm9iIFNoYWtpciA8cmpzQHJvYi5zaD47IGFzQGNpc2Nv 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+0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Pushpasis Sarkar Thread-Topic: OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 Thread-Index: AQHQ9/MdJMB0YsR7d0CkMD6XMtCYyZ5RXZAwgACngYCAAOZAsIAAjtgA///5vgCAAANVAIAAHdGAgAAGI4CAAAMzAIAAHeHwgA5/OYCAAGB6EA== Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 03:55:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0E0FB058-0DC6-49BD-95BC-6E64584B1DAD@juniper.net> <03C3AD8C-BA1F-4951-BE7E-367C95535484@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.11] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB1979; 5:u+R7WVclsFwvdFk2Cf8MtqsnNtrGOBWU8uRIkt3bABWwX7bOAIpH+KuXEKk2nOrS8CKP+ilXgZpqrWTsArWw3VAozzgt+0JDKyqxYSjS91Fc1rb0nh5hbbqG7ot/qOLkO1ISLWn5qN9L28yTiUIQLA==; 24:xNlI65V/RWhvUM9tVYIsHXA70tkLmAW4omk6G5tzSQMQ0WCVp+AS5uGtrxD6LLHIaaiqNub/C0RaFQGMauSjqfsogj0CsSL2r07lk1Nks4w=; 20:atvFwa8goouk1PnfGc27h4MI9e/tMtkhfslc6RpVxHDK14vRwI2oc1V2QxE/uXq8MKM/dokwNsc8Lpo1FYpoPg== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CY1PR05MB1979; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(95692535739014)(108003899814671)(138986009662008); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(520078)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001); SRVR:CY1PR05MB1979; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR05MB1979; x-forefront-prvs: 0724FCD4CD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(479174004)(51694002)(189002)(199003)(164054003)(377454003)(13464003)(24454002)(5001960100002)(77096005)(106116001)(102836002)(5002640100001)(2950100001)(106356001)(92566002)(5001770100001)(64706001)(76576001)(5003600100002)(105586002)(189998001)(66066001)(2900100001)(74316001)(4001450100002)(86362001)(99286002)(122556002)(5008740100001)(33656002)(97736004)(93886004)(1941001)(5004730100002)(87936001)(19580395003)(76176999)(101416001)(19580405001)(10400500002)(46102003)(40100003)(5007970100001)(81156007)(230783001)(50986999)(54356999); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR05MB1979; H:CY1PR0501MB1385.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2015 03:55:53.9223 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR05MB1979 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , Mohan Nanduri , "Jalil, Luay" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 03:55:58 -0000 QWNlZSwNCg0KVGhlIExpbmsgb3ZlcmxvYWQgc3ViIFRMViB3b3VsZCBnbyBpbiBleHRlbmRlZCBs aW5rIFRMViBzaW5jZSB0aGUgdXNlIGNhc2UgaXMgYXBwbGljYWJsZSB0byBURSBhcyB3ZWxsIGFz IG5vbi0gVEUgZGVwbG95bWVudHMuDQpUaGUgbWV0cmljIGNoYW5nZSBvbiB0aGUgcmV2ZXJzZSBz aWRlIGFwcGxpZXMgdG8gVEUgVExWIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgIFJPVVRFUiBMU0EuDQogSUdQIG1ldHJp YyBzZXQgdG8gMHhmZmZmIGFuZCBURSBtZXRyaWMgc2V0IHRvIG94ZmZmZmZmZmUuDQpUaGlzIHdh 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with ESMTP id 28C8A1A8A7F for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 03:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DFJV80n_34xH for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 03:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D62F01A8A78 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 03:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 1613B22C332; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:18:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.27]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EE7D74C048; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:18:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM7C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8007:17b:c3b4:d68b%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:18:07 +0200 From: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ+JI/83Xs1nTaFU+1Dc43TlIRpp5jBeCA Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:18:06 +0000 Message-ID: <14158_1444385888_5617945F_14158_3364_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F6733FB@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.10.9.92416 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 10:18:12 -0000 > From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)= > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:34 PM >=20 > This draft was presented in Prague and there was some support of using the > IGP to disseminate tunnel encapsulation support throughout the OSPF > routing domain. >=20 > Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG > Document. Support as co-author. Regards, -- Bruno =20 > Thanks, > Acee >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. 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From nobody Fri Oct 9 04:23:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F3A1B36E4 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 04:23:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KkJU2FixWL20 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 04:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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Oct 2015 11:23:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-011.cisco.com (xch-rcd-011.cisco.com [173.37.102.21]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t99BNnWL001239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:23:49 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-011.cisco.com (173.37.102.21) by XCH-RCD-011.cisco.com (173.37.102.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:23:46 -0500 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (173.37.183.81) by xch-rcd-011.cisco.com (173.37.102.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:23:46 -0500 Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.127]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:23:48 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Shraddha Hegde , Pushpasis Sarkar Thread-Topic: OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 Thread-Index: AQHQ9/MdJMB0YsR7d0CkMD6XMtCYyZ5RXZAwgACngYCAAOZAsIAAjtgA///5vgCAAANVAIAAHdGAgAAGI4CAAAMzAIAAHeHwgA5/OYCAAGB6EIAAjseA Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:23:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0E0FB058-0DC6-49BD-95BC-6E64584B1DAD@juniper.net> <03C3AD8C-BA1F-4951-BE7E-367C95535484@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [173.36.7.21] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4575EB4BE15EA84B9D71AEDA1C1CCD43@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Hannes Gredler , OSPF WG List , Mohan Nanduri , "Jalil, Luay" Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Link Overload - draft-hegde-ospf-link-overload-01 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 11:23:52 -0000 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X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [173.37.102.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8F017D28475614419D7487966BA41745@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:38:31 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywgDQpUaGVyZSBpcyBzdXBwb3J0IGZvciBtYWtpbmcgdGhpcyBhIFdHIGRvY3VtZW50 LiBQbGVhc2UgcmVzdWJtaXQgdGhpcyBkcmFmdA0KYXMgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLW9zcGZ2Mi1o Yml0LTAwLnR4dC4NClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUNCg0KT24gOS8yNi8xNSwgMzowNCBQTSwgIkFjZWUg TGluZGVtIChhY2VlKSIgPGFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPlRoaXMgZHJhZnQgd2Fz IHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiBQcmFndWUgYW5kIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBjb25zZW5zdXMgaW4gdGhlIHJvb20N 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X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,658,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="196172851" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Oct 2015 13:51:27 +0000 Received: from [10.82.233.37] (rtp-vpn5-292.cisco.com [10.82.233.37]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t99DpP4h025883; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:51:26 GMT To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" , "Manish Bhardwaj (manbhard)" , "Serpil Bayraktar (serpil)" References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Message-ID: <5617C65E.8050507@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:51:26 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] H-bit Support for OSPFv2 - draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-01 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:51:30 -0000 Acee Thanks. Will do Padma On 10/9/15 6:38 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > There is support for making this a WG document. Please resubmit this draft > as draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-00.txt. > Thanks, > Acee > > On 9/26/15, 3:04 PM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: > >> This draft was presented in Prague and there was consensus in the room >> that it was a valid use case. It provides protocol mechanisms to >> absolutely prevent transit traffic for OSPFv2 Routers (RFC 6987 only >> discourages transit traffic). The draft also includes assurance of >> backward compatibility. >> >> Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG >> Document. >> >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> From nobody Fri Oct 9 07:49:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AAC1B4218 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:49:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVOUbkRCWLfa for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x229.google.com (mail-oi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F41BC1B4213 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oibi136 with SMTP id i136so45251948oib.3 for ; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=T+PrGaeuvCZmsIYr51Ft3Tp2Ni1kZDwCx7tRCGTDRAI=; b=U4hES5fHfcMzCV655xR3IqXKokNXHfGKFw9I2ZvKBRc0ZvtHbTwqWWyjvQ210Bt/wD YB09UwHPpB/KwLh/bxPmBnX4QcCzcDiAv/LtHvY5qBOFJzpT8AEIc4MDElE6TVmHFnDe uqXwBJbbA7AHmQ5xKwPYYKLgP5ls9hfYLzp8Dgni8ZyIpvY2gvUlxv8OQcZ/Fsr5Ftbu fpna1O/ZIeyTFJjX0UfEgdLlpMQEF/thCHRoUikJCY4i+ISozbEabSvK1TWVWanz48kv dC3VFsnysR8b7EzhS3I0qTWrmzd0eQkAKvDZ2dqRIMgw07QnPbWF9lmsmG7CUs3rEB1U /A7A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.77.138 with SMTP id a132mr7976523oib.55.1444402143333; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.28.98 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:49:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: Luay Jalil To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1137bdd0aa95c70521ad14a7 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:49:47 -0000 --001a1137bdd0aa95c70521ad14a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Support as a co-author Regards, Luay On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > This draft was presented in Prague and there was some support of using the > IGP to disseminate tunnel encapsulation support throughout the OSPF > routing domain. > > Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG > Document. > > Thanks, > Acee > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > -- *Luay* --001a1137bdd0aa95c70521ad14a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support as a co-author

Regards,
Luay

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@ci= sco.com> wrote:
This draft = was presented in Prague and there was some support of using the
IGP to disseminate tunnel encapsulation support throughout the OSPF
routing domain.

Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG
Document.

Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf



--
Luay
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Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.286.20; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:56:59 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0286.019; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:56:59 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHRAsPs4OJchdWyi0mSCwJrdptme55jgnlQ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:56:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151009185422.24855.24486.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151009185422.24855.24486.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.14] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1381; H:BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2015 18:56:58.9473 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1381 Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07.txt X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 18:57:07 -0000 SGkgQWxsLA0KDQpUaGUgYmVsb3cgdmVyc2lvbiBjb250YWlucyB1cGRhdGVzIHRvIHRoZSBPcGVy YXRpb25zIGFuZCBNYW5hZ2VhYmlsaXR5DQpjb21tZW50cyByZWNlaXZlZCBmcm9tIERhdmlkIEJs YWNrLg0KDQpSZ2RzDQpTaHJhZGRoYQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYu b3JnXSANClNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDEwLCAyMDE1IDEyOjI0IEFNDQpUbzogU2hy YWRkaGEgSGVnZGUgPHNocmFkZGhhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PjsgQW50b24gU21pcm5vdiA8YXNAY2lz Y28uY29tPjsgWmhlbmJpbiBMaSA8bGl6aGVuYmluQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+OyBMaSB6aGVuYmluIDxs aXpoZW5iaW5AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IEJydW5vIERlY3JhZW5lIDxicnVuby5kZWNyYWVuZUBvcmFu Z2UuY29tPjsgUm9iIFNoYWtpciA8cmpzQHJvYi5zaD47IHJqc0Byb2Iuc2gNClN1YmplY3Q6IE5l dyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLW5vZGUtYWRtaW4tdGFn LTA3LnR4dA0KDQoNCkEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtbm9kZS1h ZG1pbi10YWctMDcudHh0DQpoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNzZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IFNocmFk ZGhhIEhlZ2RlIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KTmFtZToJCWRy YWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi1ub2RlLWFkbWluLXRhZw0KUmV2aXNpb246CTA3DQpUaXRsZToJCUFkdmVy dGlzaW5nIHBlci1ub2RlIGFkbWluaXN0cmF0aXZlIHRhZ3MgaW4gT1NQRg0KRG9jdW1lbnQgZGF0 ZToJMjAxNS0xMC0wOQ0KR3JvdXA6CQlvc3BmDQpQYWdlczoJCTE0DQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAg aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi1ub2Rl LWFkbWluLXRhZy0wNy50eHQNClN0YXR1czogICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmll dGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtbm9kZS1hZG1pbi10YWcvDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAg ICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi1ub2RlLWFkbWlu LXRhZy0wNw0KRGlmZjogICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJs Mj1kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtbm9kZS1hZG1pbi10YWctMDcNCg0KQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQogICBUaGlz IGRvY3VtZW50IGRlc2NyaWJlcyBhbiBleHRlbnNpb24gdG8gT1NQRiBwcm90b2NvbCB0byBhZGQg YW4NCiAgIG9wdGlvbmFsIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIGNhcGFiaWxpdHksIHRoYXQgYWxsb3dzIHRhZ2dp bmcgYW5kIGdyb3VwaW5nIG9mDQogICB0aGUgbm9kZXMgaW4gYW4gT1NQRiBkb21haW4uICBUaGlz IGFsbG93cyBzaW1wbGlmaWNhdGlvbiwgZWFzZSBvZg0KICAgbWFuYWdlbWVudCBhbmQgY29udHJv bCBvdmVyIHJvdXRlIGFuZCBwYXRoIHNlbGVjdGlvbiBiYXNlZCBvbg0KICAgY29uZmlndXJlZCBw b2xpY2llcy4gIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGVzY3JpYmVzIGFuIGV4dGVuc2lvbiB0byBPU1BGDQog ICBwcm90b2NvbCB0byBhZHZlcnRpc2UgcGVyLW5vZGUgYWRtaW5pc3RyYXRpdmUgdGFncy4gIFRo ZSBub2RlLXRhZ3MNCiAgIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIHRvIGV4cHJlc3MgYW5kIGFwcGx5IGxvY2FsbHkt ZGVmaW5lZCBuZXR3b3JrIHBvbGljaWVzDQogICB3aGljaCBpcyBhIHZlcnkgdXNlZnVsIG9wZXJh dGlvbmFsIGNhcGFiaWxpdHkuICBOb2RlIHRhZ3MgbWF5IGJlIHVzZWQNCiAgIGVpdGhlciBieSBP U1BGIGl0c2VsZiBvciBieSBvdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgY29uc3VtaW5nIGluZm9ybWF0aW9u DQogICBwcm9wYWdhdGVkIHZpYSBPU1BGLg0KDQogICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGRlc2NyaWJlcyB0 aGUgcHJvdG9jb2wgZXh0ZW5zaW9ucyB0byBkaXNzZW1pbmF0ZSBwZXItDQogICBub2RlIGFkbWlu aXN0cmF0aXZlLXRhZ3MgdG8gdGhlIE9TUEZ2MiBhbmQgT1NQRnYzIHByb3RvY29sLiAgSXQNCiAg IHByb3ZpZGVzIGV4YW1wbGUgdXNlIGNhc2VzIG9mIGFkbWluaXN0cmF0aXZlIG5vZGUgdGFncy4N Cg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBt YXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1 bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xz LmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KDQo= From nobody Fri Oct 9 13:44:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4F01AC413; 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Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:43:48 -0400 Received: from MX104CL02.corp.emc.com ([169.254.8.74]) by MXHUB207.corp.emc.com ([10.253.68.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:43:48 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "shraddha@juniper.net" , "rjs@rob.sh" , "as@cisco.com" , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org)" , "ops-dir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 Thread-Index: AdEC0zGWXF/6DiT8S06I9BPuQhJfXA== Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:43:47 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.238.45.83] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd52.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "Black, David" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 20:44:21 -0000 The -07 version of this draft addresses all of the issues raised in the Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of the -06 version, with the Operational Considerations section being a particularly welcome addition. Many thanks to the authors for the quick turnaround on everything that was done. The following is a possible additional security consideration: Injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF traffic that appears to be from a node in the domain and carries administrative tag values) is at least a possible denial-of-service attack vector, and could also be used for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [to the attacker] VPN traffic via a route where the attacker can observe it). Measures should be taken to prevent injection of outside OSPF traffic in general to protect not only tags, but all OSPF routing functionality. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Black, David > Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 7:35 PM > To: shraddha@juniper.net; rjs@rob.sh; as@cisco.com; lizhenbin@huawei.com; > bruno.decraene@orange.com; General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org); o= ps- > dir@ietf.org > Cc: ietf@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; Black, David; acee@cisco.com > Subject: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 >=20 > This is a combined Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review. Boilerplate for both foll= ows > ... >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on > Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at: >=20 > . >=20 > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments > you may receive. >=20 > I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's on= going > effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These > comments > were written primarily for the benefit of the operational area directors. > Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any = other > last call comments. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 > Reviewer: David Black > Review Date: October 5, 2015 > IETF LC End Date: October 8, 2015 > IESG Telechat date: October 15, 2015 >=20 > Summary: This draft is on the right track, but has open issues > described in the review. >=20 > This is a generally well-written draft about adding administrative tags f= or > operational use to OSPF. The draft is clear, and the material on how the > tags could be used is helpful, although raises a number of concerns about > the consequences of the intended usage of these tags. >=20 > ---- Major issues: ---- >=20 > [1] Operational considerations: There appears to be more than enough > enabled by this draft to wreak serious operational havoc, but the draft > seems to sidestep all operational topics, primarily by treating all > usage of tags as vendor- or implementation- specific and trusting the > vendors and operators not to foul things up. I'm not sure that's wise. >=20 > See end of OPS-Dir review below for more on this concern. >=20 > --- Minor issues: ---- >=20 > -- 3.2 Elements of procedure: >=20 > [A] I see what look like some underspecified requirements: >=20 > Each tag SHOULD be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be > used in policy to perform a policy action. >=20 > The administrative tag list within the > TLV SHOULD be considered an unordered list. >=20 > Why are those two not "MUST" requirements? What happens if either > is not done? >=20 > [B] Tag set completeness: >=20 > Multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY appear in an RI LSA or > multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY be contained in different > instances of the RI LSA. The node administrative tags associated > with a node for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD > be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all > instances of the RI LSA originated by that node. >=20 > This paragraph is about processing at that node. It's easy to misread, > as that implication is buried in the word "originated" in the last line. > Suggested change: >=20 > "for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD" -> > "for the purpose of any computation or processing performed > at that node SHOULD" >=20 > Also, it looks like it's acceptable for other nodes to perform such > computation or processing based on a partial tag set for this node > (e.g., when some other node has not received all the RI LSAs with all > the tags). That should be stated. >=20 > [C] Tag change/removal: >=20 > When there is a change in the node administrative tag TLV or removal/ > addition of a TLV in any instance of the RI-LSA, implementations MUST > take appropriate measures to update its state according to the > changed set of tags. Exact actions depend on features working with > administrative tags and is outside of scope of this specification. >=20 > Inability to interoperably remove a tag value (e.g., distribute the > update that tag X no longer applies to node Q) seems like a significant > omission, but I'm not a routing expert, so I'll defer to the WG's and > ADs' judgment on the importance of this. At a minimum, the rationale > for not specifying an interoperable tag value removal mechanism ought > to be added to this document. >=20 > [D] No management support >=20 > From OPS-Dir Q&A: At a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be > defined via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. >=20 > --- Nits/editorial comments: ---- >=20 > -- 1. Introduction >=20 > The Abstract says that the tags are for "route and path selection"; the > Introduction should also say that. Suggestion - at the end of this sente= nce > in the first paragraph: >=20 > It is useful to assign a per-node administrative tag to a router in > the OSPF domain and use it as an attribute associated with the node. >=20 > add the text "for route and path selection". This will help with the > second sentence in the second paragraph: >=20 > Path selection is a functional set > which applies both to TE and non-TE applications and hence new TLV > for carrying per-node administrative tags is included in Router > Information LSA [RFC4970] . >=20 > If "path selection" and "functional set" are specific terms with > specialized meaning in OSPF context, that sentence is fine as-is, > otherwise it would read better if it began with: >=20 > Route and path selection functionality applies to both ... >=20 > -- 3.1. TLV format >=20 > Type : TBA, Suggested value 10 >=20 > Please add an RFC Editor Note asking the RFC Editor to replace this with > the actual IANA-assigned value. >=20 > -- 3.2. Elements of procedure >=20 > While it's obvious that tag usage should be confined to the administrativ= e > domain that understands the tag, it's worth stating. At the end of this > sentence: >=20 > Interpretation of tag values is specific to the administrative domain > of a particular network operator. >=20 > I'd suggest adding: >=20 > , and hence tag values SHOULD NOT be propagated outside the > administrative domain to which they apply. >=20 > -- 4.4. Mobile back-haul network service deployment >=20 > Please expand "eNodeB" acronym on first use. >=20 > -- 4.5. Explicit routing policy >=20 > In Figure 3: > - The link from the leftmost pair of A nodes to the pair of T nodes > do not have link weights. > - The link from the left R node to the left T node does not have a > link weight > - The following example of an explicitly routed policy: >=20 > - Traffic from A nodes to I nodes must not go through R and T > nodes >=20 > prevents the leftmost pair of A nodes from sending traffic to the > I nodes. Was this "black hole" intended as part of the example? >=20 > Also: "explicitly routed policies" -> "explicit routing policies" >=20 > - 5. Security considerations >=20 > I'd add discussion that advertisement of tag values for one administrativ= e > domain into another risks misinterpretation of the tag values (if the two > domains have assigned different meanings to the same values), which may > have undesirable and unanticipated side effects. >=20 > In addition, injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF > traffic that appears to be from a node in the domain and carries > administrative tag values) is at least a possible denial-of-service attac= k > vector, and could also be used for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute > otherwise unobservable [to the attacker] VPN traffic via a route where > the attacker can observe it). >=20 > idnits 2.13.02 did not find any nits. >=20 > ---- Selected RFC 5706 Appendix A Q&A for OPS-Dir review ---- >=20 > A.1.2. Has installation and initial setup been discussed? > A.1.5. Has the impact on network operation been discussed? > A.1.6. Have suggestions for verifying correct operation been discussed? >=20 > No - given the impact that these tags could have on route and path > computation, likely implementations will be powerful "guns" > with which network operators can readily shoot themselves > in far more than just their "feet." These > considerations would have to be documented based on the > specific uses made of these tags by specific implementations > and deployments. All of that appears to be outside the scope > of this draft. >=20 > A.1.7. Has management interoperability been discussed? >=20 > No - at a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be defined > via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. > This is minor issue [D]. >=20 > A.1.8. Are there fault or threshold conditions that should be reported? >=20 > Yes, but they're implementation-specific - see response to > A.1.[2,5,6] above. >=20 > A.2. Management Considerations > Do you anticipate any manageability issues with the specification? >=20 > Yes, manageability has been largely ignored. >=20 > A.3. Documentation >=20 > Is an operational considerations and/or manageability section part of > the document? >=20 > No. >=20 > Does the proposed protocol have a significant operational impact on > the Internet? >=20 > Yes, the anticipated uses will. >=20 > Is there proof of implementation and/or operational experience? >=20 > Nothing was stated in the draft or shepherd write-up. >=20 > As an OPS-Dir member, I'm concerned by the above RFC 5706 answers, > and in particular treating all operational issues as vendor- and/or > operator-specific. One possible alternative would be to scope the > draft down to interoperably specify what's needed for LFA, as > indicated by this answer from the Shepherd write-up: >=20 > (9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it > represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others > being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? >=20 > There is consensus from the WG and others outside the WG that > this document can progress. It complements work done on LFA > manageability in the RTG Working Group. >=20 > Another alternative could be Experimental RFC status for the full > tag mechanism (e.g., to figure out what it'll be used for in practice, > how and why) rather than Proposed Standard. >=20 > This is major issue [1]. >=20 > Thanks, > --David > ---------------------------------------------------- > David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer > EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA=A0 01748 > +1 (508) 293-7953=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7= 786 > david.black@emc.com=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 > ---------------------------------------------------- >=20 From nobody Sun Oct 11 06:08:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F871A8942; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 06:08:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.009 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_84=0.6, MANGLED_MEDS=2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wxnjftdR_Vtd; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1382; H:BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_BY1PR0501MB1381C9C4AE5057EF4C38BAEBD5320BY1PR0501MB1381_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Oct 2015 13:08:28.7884 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1382 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0501MB1159; 2:ny6bb21z4vTPcf7S1mPJXVt7slk6Ym+8NqAPvx60XnGLLJ7tU5tFWJG2kZA1oX4eCtyrlCtN3LYnwdB3EXTtE1wDsLvejjNJi8LEDv6aPBBgoM2xa9ftqdfphG3ga3H8byzD4XYWivQaTzqgBffStzVTL1U4oQ4HJDTdDoxd3to=; 23:52BoHOeeWw+cT/khU4VMCJF+8vulTfD0clAb3t/K7DilY8iSuC2o9Yhs1+XiAMXenP9WJE8oIhAQT3F198uhhjzAHM/asq85OHkBu82ZTsRCbfH8JWmsbb5JVXUYX5Z3upN3FrfcuOSgRxYqL02UEYvYHe+RFDuljun3y0C11JS/PvBMtNBxloKwEy3bY7Jk X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:08:43 -0000 --_002_BY1PR0501MB1381C9C4AE5057EF4C38BAEBD5320BY1PR0501MB1381_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David, >Injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF traffic that ap= pears to be from a node in the domain and carries administrative tag values= ) is >at least a possible denial-of-service attack vector, and could also b= e used for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [t= o the >attacker] VPN traffic via a route where the attacker can observe it)= . Measures should be taken to prevent injection of outside OSPF traffic in= general >to protect not only tags, but all OSPF routing functionality. The -08 version contains reference to RFC 4593 and RFC 6863 whic= h discuss in-detail on different security vulnerabilities and OSPF authenti= cation mechanisms described in RFC 2328,5340 , 7474 and 7166 are sited as s= olution to the problem. I think this description would also cover the issue you have brought up. Le= t me know if you are OK with this. Rgds Shraddha -----Original Message----- From: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:14 AM To: Shraddha Hegde ; rjs@rob.sh; as@cisco.com; lizhen= bin@huawei.com; bruno.decraene@orange.com; General Area Review Team (gen-ar= t@ietf.org) ; ops-dir@ietf.org Cc: ietf@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; acee@cisco.com; Black, David Subject: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 The -07 version of this draft addresses all of the issues raised in the Gen= -ART and OPS-Dir review of the -06 version, with the Operational Considerat= ions section being a particularly welcome addition. Many thanks to the aut= hors for the quick turnaround on everything that was done. The following is a possible additional security consideration: Injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF traffic that app= ears to be from a node in the domain and carries administrative tag values)= is at least a possible denial-of-service attack vector, and could also be = used for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [to = the attacker] VPN traffic via a route where the attacker can observe it). = Measures should be taken to prevent injection of outside OSPF traffic in ge= neral to protect not only tags, but all OSPF routing functionality. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Black, David > Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 7:35 PM > To: shraddha@juniper.net; rjs@rob.sh; as@cisco.com;=20 > lizhenbin@huawei.com; bruno.decraene@orange.com; General Area Review=20 > Team (gen-art@ietf.org); ops- dir@ietf.org > Cc: ietf@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; Black, David; acee@cisco.com > Subject: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of=20 > draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 >=20 > This is a combined Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review. Boilerplate for both=20 > follows ... >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on=20 > Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at: >=20 > . >=20 > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments=20 > you may receive. >=20 > I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's=20 > ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the=20 > IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the=20 > operational area directors. > Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like=20 > any other last call comments. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 > Reviewer: David Black > Review Date: October 5, 2015 > IETF LC End Date: October 8, 2015 > IESG Telechat date: October 15, 2015 >=20 > Summary: This draft is on the right track, but has open issues > described in the review. >=20 > This is a generally well-written draft about adding administrative=20 > tags for operational use to OSPF. The draft is clear, and the=20 > material on how the tags could be used is helpful, although raises a=20 > number of concerns about the consequences of the intended usage of these = tags. >=20 > ---- Major issues: ---- >=20 > [1] Operational considerations: There appears to be more than enough=20 > enabled by this draft to wreak serious operational havoc, but the=20 > draft seems to sidestep all operational topics, primarily by treating=20 > all usage of tags as vendor- or implementation- specific and trusting=20 > the vendors and operators not to foul things up. I'm not sure that's wis= e. >=20 > See end of OPS-Dir review below for more on this concern. >=20 > --- Minor issues: ---- >=20 > -- 3.2 Elements of procedure: >=20 > [A] I see what look like some underspecified requirements: >=20 > Each tag SHOULD be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be > used in policy to perform a policy action. >=20 > The administrative tag list within the > TLV SHOULD be considered an unordered list. >=20 > Why are those two not "MUST" requirements? What happens if either is=20 > not done? >=20 > [B] Tag set completeness: >=20 > Multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY appear in an RI LSA or > multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY be contained in different > instances of the RI LSA. The node administrative tags associated > with a node for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD > be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all > instances of the RI LSA originated by that node. >=20 > This paragraph is about processing at that node. It's easy to=20 > misread, as that implication is buried in the word "originated" in the la= st line. > Suggested change: >=20 > "for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD" -> > "for the purpose of any computation or processing performed > at that node SHOULD" >=20 > Also, it looks like it's acceptable for other nodes to perform such=20 > computation or processing based on a partial tag set for this node=20 > (e.g., when some other node has not received all the RI LSAs with all=20 > the tags). That should be stated. >=20 > [C] Tag change/removal: >=20 > When there is a change in the node administrative tag TLV or removal/ > addition of a TLV in any instance of the RI-LSA, implementations MUST > take appropriate measures to update its state according to the > changed set of tags. Exact actions depend on features working with > administrative tags and is outside of scope of this specification. >=20 > Inability to interoperably remove a tag value (e.g., distribute the=20 > update that tag X no longer applies to node Q) seems like a=20 > significant omission, but I'm not a routing expert, so I'll defer to=20 > the WG's and ADs' judgment on the importance of this. At a minimum,=20 > the rationale for not specifying an interoperable tag value removal=20 > mechanism ought to be added to this document. >=20 > [D] No management support >=20 > From OPS-Dir Q&A: At a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be=20 > defined via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. >=20 > --- Nits/editorial comments: ---- >=20 > -- 1. Introduction >=20 > The Abstract says that the tags are for "route and path selection";=20 > the Introduction should also say that. Suggestion - at the end of=20 > this sentence in the first paragraph: >=20 > It is useful to assign a per-node administrative tag to a router in > the OSPF domain and use it as an attribute associated with the node. >=20 > add the text "for route and path selection". This will help with the=20 > second sentence in the second paragraph: >=20 > Path selection is a functional set > which applies both to TE and non-TE applications and hence new TLV > for carrying per-node administrative tags is included in Router > Information LSA [RFC4970] . >=20 > If "path selection" and "functional set" are specific terms with=20 > specialized meaning in OSPF context, that sentence is fine as-is,=20 > otherwise it would read better if it began with: >=20 > Route and path selection functionality applies to both ... >=20 > -- 3.1. TLV format >=20 > Type : TBA, Suggested value 10 >=20 > Please add an RFC Editor Note asking the RFC Editor to replace this=20 > with the actual IANA-assigned value. >=20 > -- 3.2. Elements of procedure >=20 > While it's obvious that tag usage should be confined to the=20 > administrative domain that understands the tag, it's worth stating. =20 > At the end of this > sentence: >=20 > Interpretation of tag values is specific to the administrative domain > of a particular network operator. >=20 > I'd suggest adding: >=20 > , and hence tag values SHOULD NOT be propagated outside the > administrative domain to which they apply. >=20 > -- 4.4. Mobile back-haul network service deployment >=20 > Please expand "eNodeB" acronym on first use. >=20 > -- 4.5. Explicit routing policy >=20 > In Figure 3: > - The link from the leftmost pair of A nodes to the pair of T nodes > do not have link weights. > - The link from the left R node to the left T node does not have a > link weight > - The following example of an explicitly routed policy: >=20 > - Traffic from A nodes to I nodes must not go through R and T > nodes >=20 > prevents the leftmost pair of A nodes from sending traffic to the > I nodes. Was this "black hole" intended as part of the example? >=20 > Also: "explicitly routed policies" -> "explicit routing policies" >=20 > - 5. Security considerations >=20 > I'd add discussion that advertisement of tag values for one=20 > administrative domain into another risks misinterpretation of the tag=20 > values (if the two domains have assigned different meanings to the=20 > same values), which may have undesirable and unanticipated side effects. >=20 > In addition, injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge=20 > OSPF traffic that appears to be from a node in the domain and carries=20 > administrative tag values) is at least a possible denial-of-service=20 > attack vector, and could also be used for more nefarious purposes=20 > (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [to the attacker] VPN traffic=20 > via a route where the attacker can observe it). >=20 > idnits 2.13.02 did not find any nits. >=20 > ---- Selected RFC 5706 Appendix A Q&A for OPS-Dir review ---- >=20 > A.1.2. Has installation and initial setup been discussed? > A.1.5. Has the impact on network operation been discussed? > A.1.6. Have suggestions for verifying correct operation been discussed? >=20 > No - given the impact that these tags could have on route and path > computation, likely implementations will be powerful "guns" > with which network operators can readily shoot themselves > in far more than just their "feet." These > considerations would have to be documented based on the > specific uses made of these tags by specific implementations > and deployments. All of that appears to be outside the scope > of this draft. >=20 > A.1.7. Has management interoperability been discussed? >=20 > No - at a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be defined > via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. > This is minor issue [D]. >=20 > A.1.8. Are there fault or threshold conditions that should be reported? >=20 > Yes, but they're implementation-specific - see response to > A.1.[2,5,6] above. >=20 > A.2. Management Considerations > Do you anticipate any manageability issues with the specification? >=20 > Yes, manageability has been largely ignored. >=20 > A.3. Documentation >=20 > Is an operational considerations and/or manageability section part of > the document? >=20 > No. >=20 > Does the proposed protocol have a significant operational impact on > the Internet? >=20 > Yes, the anticipated uses will. >=20 > Is there proof of implementation and/or operational experience? >=20 > Nothing was stated in the draft or shepherd write-up. >=20 > As an OPS-Dir member, I'm concerned by the above RFC 5706 answers, and=20 > in particular treating all operational issues as vendor- and/or=20 > operator-specific. One possible alternative would be to scope the=20 > draft down to interoperably specify what's needed for LFA, as=20 > indicated by this answer from the Shepherd write-up: >=20 > (9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it > represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others > being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? >=20 > There is consensus from the WG and others outside the WG that > this document can progress. It complements work done on LFA > manageability in the RTG Working Group. >=20 > Another alternative could be Experimental RFC status for the full tag=20 > mechanism (e.g., to figure out what it'll be used for in practice, how=20 > and why) rather than Proposed Standard. >=20 > This is major issue [1]. >=20 > Thanks, > --David > ---------------------------------------------------- > David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer EMC Corporation, 176 South St.,=20 > Hopkinton, MA=A0 01748 > +1 (508) 293-7953=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7= 786 > david.black@emc.com=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 > ---------------------------------------------------- >=20 --_002_BY1PR0501MB1381C9C4AE5057EF4C38BAEBD5320BY1PR0501MB1381_ Content-Type: text/html; name="Diff draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07.txt - draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-08.txt.htm" Content-Description: Diff draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07.txt - draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-08.txt.htm Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Diff draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07.txt - draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-08.txt.htm"; size=56843; creation-date="Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:06:13 GMT"; modification-date="Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:06:13 GMT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+DQo8bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSJjb250ZW50LXR5cGUiIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRl 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-0400 Received: from MXHUB207.corp.emc.com (10.253.68.33) by mxhub25.corp.emc.com (10.254.110.181) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.327.1; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 17:51:11 -0400 Received: from MX104CL02.corp.emc.com ([169.254.8.74]) by MXHUB207.corp.emc.com ([10.253.68.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 17:51:11 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Shraddha Hegde , "rjs@rob.sh" , "as@cisco.com" , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org)" , "ops-dir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 Thread-Index: AdEC0zGWXF/6DiT8S06I9BPuQhJfXABUGhUwABLES3A= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 21:51:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.105.56.35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd04.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "Black, David" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 21:51:44 -0000 > I think this description would also cover the issue you have brought up. = Let > me know if you are OK with this. Yes, I'm OK - that covers the topic. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Shraddha Hegde [mailto:shraddha@juniper.net] > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:08 AM > To: Black, David; rjs@rob.sh; as@cisco.com; lizhenbin@huawei.com; > bruno.decraene@orange.com; General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org); o= ps- > dir@ietf.org > Cc: ietf@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; acee@cisco.com > Subject: RE: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag= -07 >=20 > David, >=20 >=20 > >Injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF traffic that > appears to be from a node in the domain and carries administrative tag va= lues) > is >at least a possible denial-of-service attack vector, and could also b= e > used for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [t= o the > >attacker] VPN traffic via a route where the attacker can observe it). > Measures should be taken to prevent injection of outside OSPF traffic in > general >to protect not only tags, but all OSPF routing functionality. >=20 > The -08 version contains reference to RFC 4593 and RFC 6863 wh= ich > discuss in-detail on different security vulnerabilities and OSPF > authentication mechanisms described in RFC 2328,5340 , 7474 and 7166 are = sited > as solution to the problem. > I think this description would also cover the issue you have brought up. = Let > me know if you are OK with this. >=20 > Rgds > Shraddha >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:14 AM > To: Shraddha Hegde ; rjs@rob.sh; as@cisco.com; > lizhenbin@huawei.com; bruno.decraene@orange.com; General Area Review Team > (gen-art@ietf.org) ; ops-dir@ietf.org > Cc: ietf@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; acee@cisco.com; Black, David > > Subject: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 >=20 > The -07 version of this draft addresses all of the issues raised in the G= en- > ART and OPS-Dir review of the -06 version, with the Operational Considera= tions > section being a particularly welcome addition. Many thanks to the author= s for > the quick turnaround on everything that was done. >=20 > The following is a possible additional security consideration: >=20 > Injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge OSPF traffic that > appears to be from a node in the domain and carries administrative tag va= lues) > is at least a possible denial-of-service attack vector, and could also be= used > for more nefarious purposes (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [to the > attacker] VPN traffic via a route where the attacker can observe it). > Measures should be taken to prevent injection of outside OSPF traffic in > general to protect not only tags, but all OSPF routing functionality. >=20 > Thanks, > --David >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Black, David > > Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 7:35 PM > > To: shraddha@juniper.net; rjs@rob.sh; as@cisco.com; > > lizhenbin@huawei.com; bruno.decraene@orange.com; General Area Review > > Team (gen-art@ietf.org); ops- dir@ietf.org > > Cc: ietf@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; Black, David; acee@cisco.com > > Subject: Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of > > draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 > > > > This is a combined Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review. Boilerplate for both > > follows ... > > > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on > > Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at: > > > > . > > > > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments > > you may receive. > > > > I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's > > ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the > > IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the > > operational area directors. > > Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like > > any other last call comments. > > > > Document: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-06 > > Reviewer: David Black > > Review Date: October 5, 2015 > > IETF LC End Date: October 8, 2015 > > IESG Telechat date: October 15, 2015 > > > > Summary: This draft is on the right track, but has open issues > > described in the review. > > > > This is a generally well-written draft about adding administrative > > tags for operational use to OSPF. The draft is clear, and the > > material on how the tags could be used is helpful, although raises a > > number of concerns about the consequences of the intended usage of thes= e > tags. > > > > ---- Major issues: ---- > > > > [1] Operational considerations: There appears to be more than enough > > enabled by this draft to wreak serious operational havoc, but the > > draft seems to sidestep all operational topics, primarily by treating > > all usage of tags as vendor- or implementation- specific and trusting > > the vendors and operators not to foul things up. I'm not sure that's w= ise. > > > > See end of OPS-Dir review below for more on this concern. > > > > --- Minor issues: ---- > > > > -- 3.2 Elements of procedure: > > > > [A] I see what look like some underspecified requirements: > > > > Each tag SHOULD be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be > > used in policy to perform a policy action. > > > > The administrative tag list within the > > TLV SHOULD be considered an unordered list. > > > > Why are those two not "MUST" requirements? What happens if either is > > not done? > > > > [B] Tag set completeness: > > > > Multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY appear in an RI LSA or > > multiple node administrative tag TLVs MAY be contained in different > > instances of the RI LSA. The node administrative tags associated > > with a node for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD > > be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all > > instances of the RI LSA originated by that node. > > > > This paragraph is about processing at that node. It's easy to > > misread, as that implication is buried in the word "originated" in the = last > line. > > Suggested change: > > > > "for the purpose of any computation or processing SHOULD" -> > > "for the purpose of any computation or processing performed > > at that node SHOULD" > > > > Also, it looks like it's acceptable for other nodes to perform such > > computation or processing based on a partial tag set for this node > > (e.g., when some other node has not received all the RI LSAs with all > > the tags). That should be stated. > > > > [C] Tag change/removal: > > > > When there is a change in the node administrative tag TLV or removal= / > > addition of a TLV in any instance of the RI-LSA, implementations MUS= T > > take appropriate measures to update its state according to the > > changed set of tags. Exact actions depend on features working with > > administrative tags and is outside of scope of this specification. > > > > Inability to interoperably remove a tag value (e.g., distribute the > > update that tag X no longer applies to node Q) seems like a > > significant omission, but I'm not a routing expert, so I'll defer to > > the WG's and ADs' judgment on the importance of this. At a minimum, > > the rationale for not specifying an interoperable tag value removal > > mechanism ought to be added to this document. > > > > [D] No management support > > > > From OPS-Dir Q&A: At a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be > > defined via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. > > > > --- Nits/editorial comments: ---- > > > > -- 1. Introduction > > > > The Abstract says that the tags are for "route and path selection"; > > the Introduction should also say that. Suggestion - at the end of > > this sentence in the first paragraph: > > > > It is useful to assign a per-node administrative tag to a router in > > the OSPF domain and use it as an attribute associated with the node. > > > > add the text "for route and path selection". This will help with the > > second sentence in the second paragraph: > > > > Path selection is a functional set > > which applies both to TE and non-TE applications and hence new TLV > > for carrying per-node administrative tags is included in Router > > Information LSA [RFC4970] . > > > > If "path selection" and "functional set" are specific terms with > > specialized meaning in OSPF context, that sentence is fine as-is, > > otherwise it would read better if it began with: > > > > Route and path selection functionality applies to both ... > > > > -- 3.1. TLV format > > > > Type : TBA, Suggested value 10 > > > > Please add an RFC Editor Note asking the RFC Editor to replace this > > with the actual IANA-assigned value. > > > > -- 3.2. Elements of procedure > > > > While it's obvious that tag usage should be confined to the > > administrative domain that understands the tag, it's worth stating. > > At the end of this > > sentence: > > > > Interpretation of tag values is specific to the administrative domai= n > > of a particular network operator. > > > > I'd suggest adding: > > > > , and hence tag values SHOULD NOT be propagated outside the > > administrative domain to which they apply. > > > > -- 4.4. Mobile back-haul network service deployment > > > > Please expand "eNodeB" acronym on first use. > > > > -- 4.5. Explicit routing policy > > > > In Figure 3: > > - The link from the leftmost pair of A nodes to the pair of T nodes > > do not have link weights. > > - The link from the left R node to the left T node does not have a > > link weight > > - The following example of an explicitly routed policy: > > > > - Traffic from A nodes to I nodes must not go through R and T > > nodes > > > > prevents the leftmost pair of A nodes from sending traffic to the > > I nodes. Was this "black hole" intended as part of the example? > > > > Also: "explicitly routed policies" -> "explicit routing policies" > > > > - 5. Security considerations > > > > I'd add discussion that advertisement of tag values for one > > administrative domain into another risks misinterpretation of the tag > > values (if the two domains have assigned different meanings to the > > same values), which may have undesirable and unanticipated side effects= . > > > > In addition, injection of tag values from the outside (e.g., forge > > OSPF traffic that appears to be from a node in the domain and carries > > administrative tag values) is at least a possible denial-of-service > > attack vector, and could also be used for more nefarious purposes > > (e.g., reroute otherwise unobservable [to the attacker] VPN traffic > > via a route where the attacker can observe it). > > > > idnits 2.13.02 did not find any nits. > > > > ---- Selected RFC 5706 Appendix A Q&A for OPS-Dir review ---- > > > > A.1.2. Has installation and initial setup been discussed? > > A.1.5. Has the impact on network operation been discussed? > > A.1.6. Have suggestions for verifying correct operation been discussed= ? > > > > No - given the impact that these tags could have on route and path > > computation, likely implementations will be powerful "guns" > > with which network operators can readily shoot themselves > > in far more than just their "feet." These > > considerations would have to be documented based on the > > specific uses made of these tags by specific implementations > > and deployments. All of that appears to be outside the scope > > of this draft. > > > > A.1.7. Has management interoperability been discussed? > > > > No - at a minimum, reporting of tag values ought to be defined > > via an OSPF MIB extension or analogous functionality. > > This is minor issue [D]. > > > > A.1.8. Are there fault or threshold conditions that should be reported= ? > > > > Yes, but they're implementation-specific - see response to > > A.1.[2,5,6] above. > > > > A.2. Management Considerations > > Do you anticipate any manageability issues with the specification? > > > > Yes, manageability has been largely ignored. > > > > A.3. Documentation > > > > Is an operational considerations and/or manageability section part o= f > > the document? > > > > No. > > > > Does the proposed protocol have a significant operational impact on > > the Internet? > > > > Yes, the anticipated uses will. > > > > Is there proof of implementation and/or operational experience? > > > > Nothing was stated in the draft or shepherd write-up. > > > > As an OPS-Dir member, I'm concerned by the above RFC 5706 answers, and > > in particular treating all operational issues as vendor- and/or > > operator-specific. One possible alternative would be to scope the > > draft down to interoperably specify what's needed for LFA, as > > indicated by this answer from the Shepherd write-up: > > > > (9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it > > represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others > > being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with i= t? > > > > There is consensus from the WG and others outside the WG that > > this document can progress. It complements work done on LFA > > manageability in the RTG Working Group. > > > > Another alternative could be Experimental RFC status for the full tag > > mechanism (e.g., to figure out what it'll be used for in practice, how > > and why) rather than Proposed Standard. > > > > This is major issue [1]. > > > > Thanks, > > --David > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer EMC Corporation, 176 South St., > > Hopkinton, MA=A0 01748 > > +1 (508) 293-7953=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FAX: +1 (508) 293= -7786 > > david.black@emc.com=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From nobody Sun Oct 11 20:13:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F6E1B3015 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:13:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfN2rACyenUX for ; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B50CF1B3014 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CCK56738; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:13:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.72) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:13:40 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.15]) by SZXEMA413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.72]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:13:37 +0800 From: "Wunan (Eric)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ+VbFsY22i7+EvkeAzWtKDHKSZZ5nRRSQ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:13:36 +0000 Message-ID: <0F26584357FD124DB93F1535E4B0A6505FC77645@szxema508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.105] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:13:46 -0000 SSB0aGluayBpdCBpcyBhIHVzZWZ1bCB3b3JrLiBTdXBwb3J0Lg0KDQotLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7 ti0tLS0tDQrlj5Hku7bkuro6IEFjZWUgTGluZGVtIChhY2VlKSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZWVAY2lzY28u Y29tXSANCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxNeW5tDnmnIgyN+aXpSAzOjM0DQrmlLbku7bkuro6IE9T UEYgV0cgTGlzdA0K5Li76aKYOiBbT1NQRl0gQWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgVHVubmVsbGluZyBDYXBhYmls aXR5IGluIE9TUEYgLSBkcmFmdC14dS1vc3BmLWVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24tY2FwLTAyIFdHIERvY3Vt ZW50IEFkb3B0aW9uIFBvbGwNCg0KVGhpcyBkcmFmdCB3YXMgcHJlc2VudGVkIGluIFByYWd1ZSBh bmQgdGhlcmUgd2FzIHNvbWUgc3VwcG9ydCBvZiB1c2luZyB0aGUgSUdQIHRvIGRpc3NlbWluYXRl IHR1bm5lbCBlbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIHN1cHBvcnQgdGhyb3VnaG91dCB0aGUgT1NQRiByb3V0aW5n IGRvbWFpbi4gDQoNClBsZWFzZSBpbmRpY2F0ZSB5b3VyIHN1cHBvcnQgKG9yIGNvbmNlcm5zKSBm b3IgYWRvcHRpbmcgdGhpcyBhcyBhIFdHIERvY3VtZW50Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpBY2VlDQoNCg== From nobody Sun Oct 11 20:34:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D2F1B3028 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:34:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UxNKOIyF6L2S for ; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3326D1B3027 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BYR51759; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:34:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.39) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:34:20 +0100 Received: from NKGEML506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.20]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:34:14 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll Thread-Index: AQHQ+JI/83Xs1nTaFU+1Dc43TlIRpp5mwLYAgACK97A= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:34:13 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8CA579AC@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <0F26584357FD124DB93F1535E4B0A6505FC77645@szxema508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <0F26584357FD124DB93F1535E4B0A6505FC77645@szxema508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.76.77] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgQWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgVHVubmVsbGluZyBDYXBh?= =?utf-8?q?bility_in_OSPF_-_draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02_WG_Document?= =?utf-8?q?_Adoption_Poll?= X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:34:29 -0000 T3dpbmcgdG8gZGlmZmVyZW50IGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHNjZW5hcmlvcywgdGhlcmUgbmVlZHMgdG8g YmUgbXVsdGlwbGUgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGNob2ljZSB0byBhZHZlcnRpc2luZyB0dW5uZWxpbmcgY2Fw YWJpbGl0eS4NCklHUCBleHRlbnNpb24gd29yayBpbiB0aGUgZmllbGQgaXMgaW1wb3J0LiBJIHN1 cHBvcnQgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIGJlIGFkb3B0ZWQgYXMgdGhlIFdHIGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KDQpC ZXN0IFJlZ2FyZHMsDQpaaGVuYmluKFJvYmluKQ0KDQoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0N CuWPkeS7tuS6ujogQWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gKGFjZWUpIFttYWlsdG86YWNlZUBjaXNjby5jb21dIA0K 5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE15bm0OeaciDI35pelIDM6MzQNCuaUtuS7tuS6ujogT1NQRiBXRyBM aXN0DQrkuLvpopg6IFtPU1BGXSBBZHZlcnRpc2luZyBUdW5uZWxsaW5nIENhcGFiaWxpdHkgaW4g T1NQRiAtIGRyYWZ0LXh1LW9zcGYtZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbi1jYXAtMDIgV0cgRG9jdW1lbnQgQWRv cHRpb24gUG9sbA0KDQpUaGlzIGRyYWZ0IHdhcyBwcmVzZW50ZWQgaW4gUHJhZ3VlIGFuZCB0aGVy ZSB3YXMgc29tZSBzdXBwb3J0IG9mIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBJR1AgdG8gZGlzc2VtaW5hdGUgdHVubmVs IGVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24gc3VwcG9ydCB0aHJvdWdob3V0IHRoZSBPU1BGIHJvdXRpbmcgZG9tYWlu LiANCg0KUGxlYXNlIGluZGljYXRlIHlvdXIgc3VwcG9ydCAob3IgY29uY2VybnMpIGZvciBhZG9w dGluZyB0aGlzIGFzIGEgV0cgRG9jdW1lbnQuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUNCg0KX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk9TUEYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 DQpPU1BGQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29z cGYNCg== From nobody Sun Oct 11 21:12:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60B91B30D7 for ; 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s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=MDRU1MdA583diQxBZ9aRaIa5uUQY1Slj805BC0iokpM=; b=m47oHGs0sxmE9rINkaup/shDGB44lWfh9H/eFPDwD8FLELSLf74etN/EqjkfIhc9oz Pqu9Yrsl/m7IEigZZmhOPel49q/l+Rh/e620Hs55PJxjONe0Wz0oUDQ2YGTW94Od1as2 6L+U7boKAowKbG/BsqN7k7wt2MyN+ruavBzh4VjyDKE4FQaGhm56qpNjpHM9ICypNIKc /jcFyHdLX3zTwrh90uorZGqmuvfdPtTebp13QkxBexGhM5j+zipy//mPwFRK9MPFb4Bl hYdCgmKMTk4NnI6+e9cXS7YcfDfcxU7xG86WscZcQXe4pJJb+EXF7udUpf2iKToOm2PF bOfQ== X-Received: by 10.194.57.242 with SMTP id l18mr26980648wjq.34.1444623134033; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 21:12:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0F26584357FD124DB93F1535E4B0A6505FC77645@szxema508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8CA579AC@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8CA579AC@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Anil Kumar Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:12:04 +0000 Message-ID: To: Lizhenbin , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86df7abd0d470521e088b0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBBZHZlcnRpc2luZyBUdW5uZWxsaW5nIENhcGFi?= =?utf-8?q?ility_in_OSPF_-_draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02_WG_Document_?= =?utf-8?q?Adoption_Poll?= X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:12:17 -0000 --047d7b86df7abd0d470521e088b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support. On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 9:04 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > Owing to different application scenarios, there needs to be multiple > protocols choice to advertising tunneling capability. > IGP extension work in the field is import. I support the document to be > adopted as the WG document. > > Best Regards, > Zhenbin(Robin) > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2015=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8827=E6=97=A5 = 3:34 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OSPF WG List > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - > draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll > > This draft was presented in Prague and there was some support of using th= e > IGP to disseminate tunnel encapsulation support throughout the OSPF routi= ng > domain. > > Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG > Document. > > Thanks, > Acee > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > --047d7b86df7abd0d470521e088b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support.


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 9:04 = AM=C2=A0Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@hua= wei.com> wrote:
Owing to dif= ferent application scenarios, there needs to be multiple protocols choice t= o advertising tunneling capability.
IGP extension work in the field is import. I support the document to be ado= pted as the WG document.

Best Regards,
Zhenbin(Robin)


-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2015=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8827=E6=97=A5 3:= 34
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OSPF WG List
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draf= t-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll

This draft was presented in Prague and there was some support of using the = IGP to disseminate tunnel encapsulation support throughout the OSPF routing= domain.

Please indicate your support (or concerns) for adopting this as a WG Docume= nt.

Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
--047d7b86df7abd0d470521e088b0-- From nobody Mon Oct 12 06:34:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587491B3203; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:34:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrKJyh6xAddL; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136A31B31FD; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:34:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151012133425.11612.85728.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:34:25 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org, david.black@emc.com, ospf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:34:26 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - "Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent characteristics of a node." I was initially confused by that sentence. So there are tags carried by a different TLV than the administrative one? Actually, no (I checked with one of the authors). I would simply write: "Administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent characteristics of a node." This would be in line with the definition: An administrative Tag is a 32-bit integer value that can be used to identify a group of nodes in the OSPF domain. - Router information LSA [RFC4970] can have link, area or AS level flooding scope. Choosing the flooding scope to flood the group tags are defined by the policies and is a local matter. "and is a local matter". Hopefully there is some sort of centralized management application that checks consistency. From nobody Mon Oct 12 06:39:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B541B1B322B; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d-RBULX1QwD2; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D0431B3228; Mon, 12 Oct 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<20151012133425.11612.85728.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.238.44.125] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "Black, David" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:39:24 -0000 QmVub2l0LA0KDQo+IEkgd2FzIGluaXRpYWxseSBjb25mdXNlZCBieSB0aGF0IHNlbnRlbmNlLg0K 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YXJlYSBvciBBUw0KPiAgICBsZXZlbCBmbG9vZGluZyBzY29wZS4gIENob29zaW5nIHRoZSBmbG9v ZGluZyBzY29wZSB0byBmbG9vZCB0aGUgZ3JvdXANCj4gICAgdGFncyBhcmUgZGVmaW5lZCBieSB0 aGUgcG9saWNpZXMgYW5kIGlzIGEgbG9jYWwgbWF0dGVyLg0KPiANCj4gImFuZCBpcyBhIGxvY2Fs IG1hdHRlciIuIEhvcGVmdWxseSB0aGVyZSBpcyBzb21lIHNvcnQgb2YgY2VudHJhbGl6ZWQNCj4g bWFuYWdlbWVudCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiB0aGF0IGNoZWNrcyBjb25zaXN0ZW5jeS4NCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Oct 12 20:26:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941941B372E; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:26:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 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Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:25:54 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Black, David" , Benoit Claise , The IESG Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBPK4BC8ER3zes0WEcFxtpONlkZ5n3MWAgADmxNA= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:25:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151012133425.11612.85728.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.11] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0501MB1382; 5:cYprO7ZpvQ2GQtLepi+4Wah/RXGDcmPzRhCzbsQS+3U/NSKul0Jbpqp7KDfRhIWuzy1HqGDQsR+p8dIQ0UryFwSRBeEOMp/9RpJ3JgFigmTTuG+S/7/+JbCHLNCpxZT1AZVwIsHsuTKslWfd1ASCLw==; 24:mtrsYvmUcPvve+E42kAqciWvTOjxn0/ruB+3YfaAQNtXgwI5utedfJHLimUw/wMIOxasjj2F+yvTjlcrQ0XkRUP9o9BKqhwz9ebKPfnkhFw=; 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Tue, 13 Oct 2015 04:30:53 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric : Max metric handling Thread-Index: AdEAHKg/Cne5geJ/SzGq6c/Ed/OpoABj6wCAAPC0XHA= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 04:30:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.11] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0501MB1383; 5:qDeGo4qj/hYH1faatbDT9C4JLybyb3wbfznPZmueGutcmwAml+T/hZR3+u6ULfs32Z0WXfCm/6cJXHnozA5mz9XxpXKFJvjxXSvGwlSkFAw0ecnmgZZhZkY28YT0CCcp+ZdggG3q+gUTgwfpjWG8TA==; 24:HPX0oVlCFIxuhPafGK5fgNga+DZaBVz9ttOguyqFIFvbMFR9DGTnVFT11zLWo9FNSBhlqQBJEgZLsGTDGS7jKVQk9eKwbGUmrgCaDCKwCS0=; 20:TsNHeqz0PMJhHq0m5xMG5gD8hx/mUsmU3z4kN8L0iH75CRxDJRDeOZjz7Geelxnxy1ux9qzHOGQVvV96bSsuAw== x-microsoft-antispam: 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L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_BY1PR0501MB13812121E6BD78B9C15799B9D5300BY1PR0501MB1381_-- From nobody Tue Oct 13 06:50:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C22E1B3F7B for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:50:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9kmQU9XUACfB for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using 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Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <36F4ACA069D0894A8F078E4E92348400@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF - draft-xu-ospf-encapsulation-cap-02 WG Document Adoption Poll X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:50:38 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywgDQpJIGJlbGlldmUgd2UgaGF2ZSBzdWZmaWNpZW50IHN1cHBvcnQgdG8gbWFrZSB0 aGlzIGEgV0cgZG9jdW1lbnQuIFBsZWFzZQ0KcmVpc3N1ZSB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFzIGRyYWZ0 LWlldGYtb3NwZi1lbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uLWNhcC0wMC50eHQuDQpUaGFua3MsDQpBY2VlIA0KDQpP 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8QJ483BV_uiI; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85221B31BD; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alvaro Retana" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.5.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:21:27 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:21:29 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 3.2. (Elements of procedure) says that the "interpretation of tag values is specific to the administrative domain of a particular network operator", which makes them opaque and obviously locally significant. I then have an issue with the following text, which tries to (using rfc2119 keywords) specify how to interpret the tags, which doesn't make sense to me given the text above: Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be used in policy to perform a policy action. Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent characteristics of a node. The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not change their outcome). To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node administrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a router in RI LSAs of different scopes. The same tag MAY be advertised in multiple RI LSAs of the same scope, for example, OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) may advertise the same tag in area-scope RI LSAs in multiple areas connected to the ABR. . . . Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be reasonably small and stable. In particular, but not limited to, implementations supporting the per-node administrative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the network topology (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or reachability of routes. . . . instances of the RI LSA. The node administrative tags associated with a node that originates tags for the purpose of any computation or processing at a receiving node SHOULD be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all the received RI LSA instances originated by that node.When an RI LSA is received that changes the set of tags applicable to any originating node, a receiving node MUST repeat any computation or processing that is based on those administrative tags. If the tags are opaque, I don't think that anything can be mandated as to how they are interpreted or what they're used for. That is the point I want to talk about with this DISCUSS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Related to the DISCUSS: Section 3.2 says that the "meaning of the Node administrative tags is generally opaque to OSPF", are there cases where the meaning is not opaque? Even if the application is well known there is no indication that the tag is not opaque. Yes, this is a nit with the word "generally". All the references related to rfc4970 should be changed to draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis. From nobody Tue Oct 13 15:46:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C131A1B98 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:45:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VuP7QP8N9DNZ for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EA311A1B84 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:45:52 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79ef6d000007f54-f0-561d296b2141 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B3.AC.32596.B692D165; 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Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:50:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ru8h3bX_IBhr; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2021ACC8A; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Barry Leiba" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.5.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151014155012.30029.19523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:50:12 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:50:14 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The abstract reads a bit oddly, repeating "This document describes an extension to OSPF protocol". Perhaps while you're making changes to address the other IESG comments, you could re-word the abstract to avoid that repetition. From nobody Wed Oct 14 10:16:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF941A6F3B; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KtG7FPocx8z4; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA36B1A6EFB; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.5.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151014171649.27745.33568.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:16:49 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:16:51 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I share Alvero's Discuss about whether these tags are opaque. From nobody Wed Oct 14 14:12:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3071A8948; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:12:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XQQ8vE35ogkd; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 542971A8941; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:12:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:12:04 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com (173.36.7.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:11:50 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:11:49 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Ben Campbell , The IESG Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBsHpWGkeOX0Ci0OqqdZXk7vylZ5rjUKA Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:11:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151014205015.15090.27114.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151014205015.15090.27114.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0CEDE3221B827E4C9928E3F697B8A1B1@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:12:07 -0000 DQoNCk9uIDEwLzE0LzE1LCA0OjUwIFBNLCAiQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIiA8YmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29t PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPkJlbiBDYW1wYmVsbCBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGJhbGxv dCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCj5kcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtbm9kZS1hZG1pbi10YWctMDc6IE5vIE9i amVjdGlvbg0KPg0KPldoZW4gcmVzcG9uZGluZywgcGxlYXNlIGtlZXAgdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgbGlu ZSBpbnRhY3QgYW5kIHJlcGx5IHRvIGFsbA0KPmVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0 aGUgVG8gYW5kIENDIGxpbmVzLiAoRmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIGN1dCB0aGlzDQo+aW50cm9kdWN0b3J5 IHBhcmFncmFwaCwgaG93ZXZlci4pDQo+DQo+DQo+UGxlYXNlIHJlZmVyIHRvIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL2llc2cvc3RhdGVtZW50L2Rpc2N1c3MtY3JpdGVyaWEuaHRtbA0KPmZvciBtb3Jl IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGFib3V0IElFU0cgRElTQ1VTUyBhbmQgQ09NTUVOVCBwb3NpdGlvbnMuDQo+ DQo+DQo+VGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LCBhbG9uZyB3aXRoIG90aGVyIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbnMsIGNh biBiZSBmb3VuZCBoZXJlOg0KPmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0 LWlldGYtb3NwZi1ub2RlLWFkbWluLXRhZy8NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+Q09N TUVOVDoNCj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+DQo+VGhlIHNoZXBoZXJkIHdyaXRlIHVwIHNheXMgdGhh dCB0aGVyZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gbm8gSVBSIGRpc2Nsb3N1cmVzLCBidXQNCj50aGVyZSBoYXMgaW4g ZmFjdCBiZWVuIGEgZGlzY2xvc3VyZSBvbiBhbiBlYXJsaWVyIHZlcnNpb24uIFdhc3QgaGUNCj53 b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGF3YXJlIG9mIHRoaXMgZGlzY2xvc3VyZT8NCg0KT2sgLSBtdXN0IGhhdmUg bWlzc2VkIHByZXZpb3VzbHkgZGlzY2xvc2VkIElQUi4gV2lsbCBwb2xsIGFnYWluLg0KDQpUaGFu a3MsDQpBY2VlIA0KDQoNCg0KDQo+DQo+My4yLCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggNDogIkVhY2ggdGFnIE1VU1Qg YmUgdHJlYXRlZCBhcyBhbiBpbmRlcGVuZGVudCBpZGVudGlmaWVyDQo+dGhhdCBNQVkgYmUNCj51 c2VkIGluIHBvbGljeSB0byBwZXJmb3JtIGEgcG9saWN5IGFjdGlvbi4iDQo+DQo+R2l2ZW4gdGhl IGNvbnRleHQgb2YgdGhlIHByZXZpb3VzIE1VU1QsIHRoZSBNQVkgc2VlbXMgbW9yZSBkZXNjcmlw dGl2ZQ0KPnRoYW4gIG5vcm1hdGl2ZS4NCj4NCj4NCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 14 14:16:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FED1A8954; 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Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:16:03 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:16:03 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag - Advertising per-node administrative tags in OSPF Thread-Index: AQHRBsWIOlTh3HByaECNjSMRhLRb0Q== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:16:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0E50EE3637614741818A55C78F45ADC8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: [OSPF] draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag - Advertising per-node administrative tags in OSPF X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:16:21 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywgDQoNClBsZWFzZSBpbmRpY2F0ZSB3aGV0aGVyIHlvdSBhcmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55 IHJlbGV2YW50IElQUiBhbmQgaWYgc28sDQp3aGV0aGVyIGl0IGhhcyBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZC4N Cg0KVGhpcyBJUFIgaGFzIGJlZW4gZGlzY2xvc2VkOiBodHRwOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaXByLzI0NjAvDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Oct 14 17:12:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8581B2CCC; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:12:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f352lMVe5Srt; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.rob.sh (cappuccino.rob.sh [IPv6:2a03:9800:10:4c::cafe:b00c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 497F31B2CCA; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [64.114.17.178] (helo=piccolo.local) by cappuccino.rob.sh with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmW9m-0003EL-7k; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 01:12:30 +0100 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 01:12:44 +0100 From: Rob Shakir To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag=40ietf.org?=" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (334) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag - Advertising per-node administrative tags in OSPF X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:12:54 -0000 Hi Acee, On 14 October 2015 at 22:16:37, Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com) wrote: > Authors, > > Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > whether it has been disclosed. > > This IPR has been disclosed: http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2460/ The disclosed IPR is the only IPR that I am aware of. Best, r. From nobody Wed Oct 14 21:47:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1771B3041; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:47:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3hcPapnAzojg; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0115.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3656F1B3040; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 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bGwgdGhlIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byByZmM0OTcwIHNob3VsZCBiZSBjaGFuZ2VkIHRv IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi1yZmM0OTcwYmlzLg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Oct 15 00:00:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38701B30FD; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:00:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P_OetMVIM2WK; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor36.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00CBA1A88D7; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 01436403E6; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:00:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.17]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C80AD1A0060; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:00:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a1e6:3e6a:1f68:5f7e%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:00:13 +0200 From: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag - Advertising per-node administrative tags in OSPF Thread-Index: AQHRBsWIOlTh3HByaECNjSMRhLRb0Z5sH1HQ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:00:13 +0000 Message-ID: <28084_1444892413_561F4EFD_28084_1798_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F67AC25@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag - Advertising per-node administrative tags in OSPF X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:00:21 -0000 SGkgQWNlZSwNCg0KSSdtIG5vdCBhd2FyZSBvZiBub24tZGlzY2xvc2VkIElQUi4NCg0KTm90ZSB0 aGF0IGRhdGEtdHJhY2tlciByZWNvcmRzIG9uZSBJUFI6IGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0 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ZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIG9yIHByaXZpbGVnZWQg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91bGQgbm90 IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNvcGllZCB3aXRob3V0IGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24uCklm IHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhl IHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLgpBcyBl bWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIEZyYW5jZSBUZWxlY29tIC0gT3JhbmdlIHNoYWxsIG5vdCBi ZSBsaWFibGUgaWYgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIHdhcyBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBmYWxzaWZp ZWQuClRoYW5rIHlvdS4KCg== From nobody Thu Oct 15 02:22:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020E91A914C; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:21:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rt8c0gQOzMyv; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D9561A9138; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:21:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=349; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1444900913; x=1446110513; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PtBw6+sz8N8UqBmj+wGnKH5RlqjfeOrp/RJl5hy7ot0=; b=i+rqpaSyyOwEGQzCUdDZSi/zFbpTpcZR3iu2++0C4pyy9mgV159drEnV upSIjNLBVbTfO53NCrztwrcf3yRe0T3gfQNKx6w8huhQywzlp0faD4Sq4 ItsD4j9fY9IXGVRBniCag47R0GUkxLnjfK3sLRGd4QQXN1f8DnW1U77AJ o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,684,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="630342669" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Oct 2015 09:21:51 +0000 Received: from as-lnx.cisco.com (ams-asmirnov-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.206.134]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9F9Lp8Z003770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:21:51 GMT Message-ID: <561F702D.3040201@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:21:49 +0200 From: Anton Smirnov Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: asmirnov Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag - Advertising per-node administrative tags in OSPF X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:21:58 -0000 Hello, I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft. Anton On 10/14/2015 11:16 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > > Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > whether it has been disclosed. > > This IPR has been disclosed: http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2460/ > > Thanks, > Acee > From nobody Thu Oct 15 02:50:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC601AC39A; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:50:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jfo4yLCd3noc; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 664911AC3AD; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:50:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8075; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1444902619; x=1446112219; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SA2kxaVtQF8FBi8hKqG8YhYN2+B+fLU0toPGzAHVZWk=; b=BkiL+8mk+ZqWjS1gKVTzdj4ZPhnufIuac3uFxEl3akuCE1O33QglPl3m t5kl1gj2TgiZoGbnufhVkSZP7PY7fBOiRfRYrMIdvbagj+L8wweBdC1lv Ya7gn8JqAdifTwzQI8PII9Rx8jTpLlc8WgEAD356U6FRqsouyxsigde3c o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,684,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="630343045" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Oct 2015 09:50:16 +0000 Received: from as-lnx.cisco.com (ams-asmirnov-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.206.134]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9F9oGNn009512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:50:16 GMT Message-ID: <561F76D6.2040403@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:50:14 +0200 From: Anton Smirnov Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shraddha Hegde , Alvaro Retana , The IESG References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: asmirnov Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 09:50:22 -0000 Hi Alvaro, Shraddha, > Related to the DISCUSS: Section 3.2 says that the "meaning of the > Node administrative tags is generally opaque to OSPF", are there > cases where the meaning is not opaque? Even if the application is well known there is no indication that the tag is not opaque. Yes, > this is a nit with the word "generally". > There are no known cases where OSPF needs to look into the > tags but I do not rule out the possibility in future where OSPF uses > tags for some of its functionality Tags may or may not be opaque to OSPF. This depends both on the use case and device implementation & configuration. If we consider use case of MPLS TE placement from the document then tags are opaque to OSPF (both for originators and routers running computation). MPLS TE is the consumer. OTOH if we consider rLFA use case then tags are opaque for routers originating them but they are NOT opaque to OSPF on routers running rLFA computation. In this case OSPF is configured with policy to check tags advertised by a node considered as candidate rLFA terminating point and accept or reject candidate based on tags advertised by that node and local policy. So IMO there do exist use cases where OSPF is consumer of tags and at least couple of example use cases in the document fall into this category. Note that above I assume rLFA functionality to be part of OSPF. One may lay argument that rLFA is not an OSPF but is as external to OSPF as MPLS TE. To cover possible use cases and differences in implementations I prefer we do not assume that users of tags are always outside of OSPF. Anton On 10/15/2015 06:47 AM, Shraddha Hegde wrote: > Alvaro, > > Thanks for reviewing the document. > As indicated in other thread, we need rules/regulation on how to interpret the tags and how to use them to get interoperable implementations. > >> Although , the actual values of node admin tags do not need to be standardized and is left to the operator's discretion to allocate values and assign meanings to it, It's necessary to layout certain rules/regulations and guidelines on how the tags can be used and how > they cannot be used. That will help in getting interoperable implementations from vendors and avoid surprises in the field. > For ex: We have a statement administrative tag order has no meaning. If this document does not specify such a statement, there I every possibility some implementation will have policies that will look at the order in which the tags are encoded. Some other implementation which does not care about the order of the tag might keep changing it at every LSA refresh so it's hard to get them to interoperate. > > Added below text in section 3.2.1 > " This section describes general rules/ regulations > and guidelines for using and interpreting an administrative tag which will > facilitate interoperable implementations by vendors." > > > > Related to the DISCUSS: Section 3.2 says that the "meaning of the Node administrative tags is generally opaque to OSPF", are there cases where the meaning is not opaque? Even if the application is well known there is no indication that the tag is not opaque. Yes, this is a nit with the word "generally". > There are no known cases where OSPF needs to look into the tags but I do not rule out the possibility in future where OSPF uses tags for some of its functionality > > All the references related to rfc4970 should be changed to draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis. > Is it OK to reference drafts as Normative refrence? > > Rgds > Shraddha > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alvaro Retana [mailto:aretana@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:51 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: acee@cisco.com; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org > Subject: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: Discuss > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Section 3.2. (Elements of procedure) says that the "interpretation of tag values is specific to the administrative domain of a particular network operator", which makes them opaque and obviously locally significant. I then have an issue with the following text, which tries to (using rfc2119 > keywords) specify how to interpret the tags, which doesn't make sense to me given the text above: > > Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be > used in policy to perform a policy action. Tags carried by the > administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent > characteristics of a node. The administrative tag list within the > TLV MUST be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be > implemented based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A > AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of > the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commutative > operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not > change their outcome). > > To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node > administrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a > router in RI LSAs of different scopes. The same tag MAY be > advertised in multiple RI LSAs of the same scope, for example, OSPF > Area Border Router (ABR) may advertise the same tag in area-scope RI > LSAs in multiple areas connected to the ABR. > . . . > Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be > reasonably small and stable. In particular, but not limited to, > implementations supporting the per-node administrative tags MUST NOT > tie advertised tags to changes in the network topology (both within > and outside the OSPF domain) or reachability of routes. > . . . > instances of the RI LSA. The node administrative tags associated > with a node that originates tags for the purpose of any computation > or processing at a receiving node SHOULD be a superset of node > administrative tags from all the TLVs in all the received RI LSA > instances originated by that node.When an RI LSA is received that > changes the set of tags applicable to any originating node, a > receiving node MUST repeat any computation or processing that is > based on those administrative tags. > > If the tags are opaque, I don't think that anything can be mandated as to how they are interpreted or what they're used for. That is the point I want to talk about with this DISCUSS. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Related to the DISCUSS: Section 3.2 says that the "meaning of the Node administrative tags is generally opaque to OSPF", are there cases where the meaning is not opaque? Even if the application is well known there is no indication that the tag is not opaque. Yes, this is a nit with the word "generally". > > All the references related to rfc4970 should be changed to draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis. > > From nobody Thu Oct 15 03:34:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983B81ACE5D; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 03:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWj8v8GSp4RL; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 03:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203F61ACE58; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 03:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B3D2CCBE; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:34:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IteIjPypD20g; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:34:44 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200262CC6B; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:34:43 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_445638F0-5C92-42A8-919E-78842CF2B202"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.1 From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:34:42 +0300 Message-Id: <04B752E2-0153-4EDF-95C2-D24A1863A69B@piuha.net> References: To: "Black, David" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "General Area Review Team \(gen-art@ietf.org\)" , "as@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Gen-ART and OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:34:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_445638F0-5C92-42A8-919E-78842CF2B202 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 David & all: thank you very much for the reviews, discussion, and = changes. I have placed a no-objection position on this draft for = tonight=92s IESG telechat. Jari --Apple-Mail=_445638F0-5C92-42A8-919E-78842CF2B202 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWH4FCAAoJEM80gCTQU46qun8P/1nKVPrREI2gOotDNJdwqyJw CsXh93y9Y1iQPpTHxuPvRzvue3NON10Zbs6Q0wziPoJaNxOswydmSRjf8UOUEoXj jh8E1ODo7fhI7uKpCPmD+EtJATWM3kG+djKqlWNv79zy++P5MlDZNMJMg87H/GXm mJNXRX9vMaA4oMzY/gbi3ZMDKu+1HBiEyRj/fN5vwEicT6fbU6u4gBXb+gnPVoH5 EeG82nxmGu0Fk/g6+0XGMme8R5qmsqwKAl6kP6eW0fOvqwXS2tO5YLeu+HFf2MPq oSTyFM34PVszspCG1enGO1QLOPV+2VO97Vr7tZrRO1ZWNyXhAL1wnicMhi8PhEnB BGxoZcEJ2RVDF2KRA5woXGP+j1oDM56VIpljI86x71/HfcHn/Vm3XpFfPZecJRzb Enm0CB/eTzy74WfZPH0vuLz72KEPwadWJykeK0yGI0JZBUpdjO2TDzEw8QNAAMcN AbVGB2Cbwhf0vA/37tbxz5sbFjF7aKELB/pdcFqqi33oE+KRNDlUG4zlPUbSuggw wDtzSANJxbUxxPPAJ0DkwpBAz2IchdezHbb42ZfyrSdF9gVSBAp0EJ9xBzCXQ8v3 aLH7GH2O2ETN6ccIYh7mH/wauy4SyKyQ5UWbdfHgfwxh3KsCKIKnputGKX6y9GvU apf/921EdLdZSBZZ7IUY =+N5Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_445638F0-5C92-42A8-919E-78842CF2B202-- From nobody Thu Oct 15 04:33:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858F51B2A59; 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Thu, 15 Oct 2015 06:33:04 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 06:33:04 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Shraddha Hegde , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJuCumG1ZA/D0Cj5vEpcyU0Zp5sUYCAgAAuTQA= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <44ACD977CAC11B419E20FABBFF8DBC86@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:33:23 -0000 On 10/15/15, 12:47 AM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: Shraddha: Hi! >Thanks for reviewing the document. >As indicated in other thread, we need rules/regulation on how to >interpret the tags and how to use them to get interoperable >implementations. That statement is a contradiction to me. The bottom line is that if the "node-tags can be used to express and apply locally-defined network policies", and you're applying rules/regulations to them, then you're limiting the ability of the operator to describe the policy they may want. If the tags are truly opaque..then the meaning is a local interpretation..and the use of that meaning in a policy (or any subsequent action, or not) is completely dependent on the interpretation. In fact, anyone should be able to communicate any "attribute associated with the node" using these tags, which should leave its use and interpretation up to the operator. > >> Although , the actual values of node admin tags do not need to be >>standardized and is left to the operator's discretion to allocate values >>and assign meanings to it, It's necessary to layout certain >>rules/regulations and guidelines on how the tags can be used and how >they cannot be used. That will help in getting interoperable >implementations from vendors and avoid surprises in the field. >For ex: We have a statement administrative tag order has no meaning. If >this document does not specify such a statement, there I every >possibility some implementation will have policies that will look at the >order in which the tags are encoded. Some other implementation which does >not care about the order of the tag might keep changing it at every LSA >refresh so it's hard to get them to interoperate. This is a good point to talk about. I understand the potential problems with re-origination/refresh -- one of them being that the document doesn't specify anything related to the ordering of the tags in the TLV. In fact, the only text that I could find related to origination of the information is this: When there is a change or removal of an administrative affiliation of a node, the node MUST re-originate the RI LSA with the latest set of node administrative tags. ..it says nothing about how the set is ordered: random, chronological, some type of numeric order, etc. While it might have been nice (for some applications) to have some type of predictability/persistence, not having an order is ok. The text in 3.2 that reads: The semantics of the tag order has no meaning. That is, there is no implied meaning to the ordering of the tags that indicates a certain operation or set of operations that need to be performed based on the ordering. ...is also fine, and it (implicitly) covers the risk. The piece of text I have a problem with is this: The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unordered list.=20 As you hinted above, because the draft doesn't provide guidance on ordering, an implementation can choose to do so without harming applications that assume nothing -- an operator may want to take advantage of this "ordering feature" (for whatever purpose), but this document would say "MUST be considered unordered"..limiting future policy implementations. As with the discussion (in the other thread) about the potential definition of well-known values (change from "MUST NOT" to "not expected"), this is also a case where the use of normative (rfc2119) language makes no sense (at least to me). >Added below text in section 3.2.1 >" This section describes general rules/ regulations >and guidelines for using and interpreting an administrative tag which will > facilitate interoperable implementations by vendors." 3.2, right?=20 To hopefully speed the process up, let me be specific about the other rfc2119 occurrences in 3.2 that I have an issue with (in order of appearance): 1. "Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be used in policy to perform a policy action." Ben already mentioned that the "MAY" seems more descriptive than normative.. I agree. However, there is still the "MUST". All the tags are about a node, so they are in fact all related. Also, because these are opaque tags, the operator can encode and interpret them anyway they want. Again, the "MUST" makes no sense. 2. "Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent characteristics of a node." With this statement you're trying to limit what the operator can use the tags for. Operationally this sentence is easy to ignore because there's no definition of what an "independent characteristic" is..so the use of "SHOULD" makes no sense. 3. "The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not change their outcome)." Already discussed above. 4. "To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node administrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a router in RI LSAs of different scopes." Why not? Given that all the tags are subject to local interpretation, it is very possible than an operator could use the same value to mean different things at the different scopes. [I know that we have 32 bits...but it is obviously easier for anyone to look at the TLV and remember what the value "5" means than to have to remember ranges between 34322-34332..or other numbers for the different scopes.] 5. "The same tag MAY be advertised in multiple RI LSAs of the same scope, for example, OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) may advertise the same tag in area-scope RI LSAs in multiple areas connected to the ABR." I don't have a real problem with this one..but (going back to the same point) if the tags are subject to local interpretation and use, then advertising anything is ok..so I think that the "MAY" is really descriptive, and shouldn't be normative. 6. "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be reasonably small and stable...implementations supporting the per-node administrative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the network topology (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or reachability of routes." Again, why not? I know the point is stability. Just as an example, the application described in Section 4.4. (Mobile back-haul network service deployment) says that the tags could represent a ring..which will obviously change if the topology changes. In this case it is obviously ok to describe the potential impact of too many changes..but trying to control it with the "MUST NOT" is just something that can't be enforced. 7. "The node administrative tags associated with a node that originates tags for the purpose of any computation or processing at a receiving node SHOULD be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all the received RI LSA instances originated by that node." Not a problem with this one either..but you're probably missing a "per flooding scope" somewhere. 8. "When an RI LSA is received that changes the set of tags applicable to any originating node, a receiving node MUST repeat any computation or processing that is based on those administrative tags." The computation/processing is locally dependent and may not require repeating even if the values changed -- much less if the set changed but not the values. The action should be to at least check if the change impact the application, but I think the "MUST" is out of place. . . . >All the references related to rfc4970 should be changed to >draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis. > Is it OK to reference drafts as Normative refrence? Yes. Thanks! Alvaro. From nobody Thu Oct 15 05:02:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C7F1B2CEB; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:02:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SWTVwWGcz0u7; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603771ACEA5; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:02:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Brian Haberman" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151015120246.2709.89519.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:02:46 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Brian Haberman's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:02:49 -0000 Brian Haberman has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Alvaro's DISCUSS position. I also wonder why we are turning OSPF into a generic container protocol. That approach has caused issues with BGP and I don't see it being any better doing it in OSPF. From nobody Thu Oct 15 05:39:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16ECE1B3114; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:39:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3cL_dsM4Gue; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7AE1B310E; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:39:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151015123926.4163.92607.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:39:26 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:39:28 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - I think Alavaro and Brian make some good points. I'll be interested in how that discussion turns out. - Good to see that you recognise that even opaque tag values can expose sensitive information (the attacker isn't limited in how they are allowed interpret what they see). However, given that we recognise that confidentiality ought be provided sometimes, isn't there an onus on us to actually provide some usable way to get that service? If so, then who is looking at that problem? If not, then why is that acceptable? (This isn't a discuss as I don't think there is any PII or similar information being transferred, and the confidentiality requirement here really relates to network topology etc. But please do correct me if one of these tags could be PII-like and I'll make this a discuss if that's better.) From nobody Thu Oct 15 23:20:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E551A1B2F51; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:20:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sG2d5PMQO5OM; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0125.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.125]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 957B01B2F53; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) by BY1PR0501MB1383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.293.16; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:20:40 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0293.007; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:20:40 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: Stephen Farrell , The IESG Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRB0aKzC16i7cTjEGkWR6TE3nQQ55tTiww Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:20:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151015123926.4163.92607.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151015123926.4163.92607.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Oct 2015 06:20:40.3563 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1383 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:20:45 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhlbiwNCg0KUGxzIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuLg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJyZWxsIFttYWlsdG86c3RlcGhlbi5mYXJyZWxsQGNzLnRj ZC5pZV0gDQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgT2N0b2JlciAxNSwgMjAxNSA2OjA5IFBNDQpUbzogVGhl 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UkZDMjMyOCIvPiBhbmQgPHhyZWYgdGFyZ2V0PSJSRkM1MzQwIi8+IE9TUEYgYXV0aGVudGljYXRp b24gbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBkbyBub3QgcHJvdmlkZSANCiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWxpdHkgYW5kIHRoZSBp bmZvcm1hdGlvbiBjYXJyaWVkIGluIG5vZGUgYWRtaW5pc3RyYXRpdmUgdGFncyBjb3VsZCBiZSBs ZWFrZWQgdG8gYW4gSUdQIHNub29wZXIuDQpDb25maWRlbnRpYWxpdHkgZm9yIHRoZSBPU1BGIGNv bnRyb2wgcGFja2V0cyBjYW4gYmUgYWNoaWV2ZWQgYnkgZWl0aGVyIHJ1bm5pbmcgT1NQRiBvbiB0 b3Agb2YgSVAgU2VjdXJpdHkgKElQU0VDKSB0dW5uZWxzIG9yIA0KYnkgYXBwbHlpbmcgSVBTRUMg YmFzZWQgc2VjdXJpdHkgbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBhcyBkZXNjcmliZWQgaW4gPHhyZWYgdGFyZ2V0PSJS RkM0NTUyIi8+DQo= From nobody Fri Oct 16 01:34:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E181B30A3; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 01:34:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Oct 2015 09:20:16.2484 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1383 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:20:31 -0000 --_002_BY1PR0501MB1381A540ECC4E6F62651BF6ED53D0BY1PR0501MB1381_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alvaro, Thanks for the follow-up and great discussion. Pls see in-line. I believe normative language is necessary in some cases (although it uses l= ocal policy) in order to get interoperable implementations among vendors. Otherwise, implementations may claim document compliance and may not follow= the suggestions in the document which will be expensive to discover for the operators.=20 Rgds Shraddha -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Retana (aretana) [mailto:aretana@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:03 PM To: Shraddha Hegde ; The IESG Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) ; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@= ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf= -node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) On 10/15/15, 12:47 AM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: Shraddha: Hi! >Thanks for reviewing the document. >As indicated in other thread, we need rules/regulation on how to=20 >interpret the tags and how to use them to get interoperable=20 >implementations. That statement is a contradiction to me. The bottom line is that if the "n= ode-tags can be used to express and apply locally-defined network policies"= , and you're applying rules/regulations to them, then you're limiting the a= bility of the operator to describe the policy they may want. It does not limit the ability of the operator to deploy any of t= he use-cases requiring node-tags. Node tags are generic enough and multiple= tags can be associated with A node so it doesn't harm to introduce one more new t= ag into the domain when certain objectives cannot be achieved=20 For ex: Operator wants to apply policy based on=20 Tag A comes before tag B. Operator has to introduce t= wo new tags C and D in the network and send C when A comes before B. Send D= when B comes before A and on the receiver write rules for C and D. If the tags are truly opaque..then the meaning is a local interpretation..a= nd the use of that meaning in a policy (or any subsequent action, or not) i= s completely dependent on the interpretation. In fact, anyone should be ab= le to communicate any "attribute associated with the node" using these tag= s, which should leave its use and interpretation up to the operator. > >> Although , the actual values of node admin tags do not need to be=20 >>standardized and is left to the operator's discretion to allocate=20 >>values and assign meanings to it, It's necessary to layout certain=20 >>rules/regulations and guidelines on how the tags can be used and how >they cannot be used. That will help in getting interoperable=20 >implementations from vendors and avoid surprises in the field. >For ex: We have a statement administrative tag order has no meaning.=20 >If this document does not specify such a statement, there I every=20 >possibility some implementation will have policies that will look at=20 >the order in which the tags are encoded. Some other implementation=20 >which does not care about the order of the tag might keep changing it=20 >at every LSA refresh so it's hard to get them to interoperate. This is a good point to talk about. I understand the potential problems wi= th re-origination/refresh -- one of them being that the document doesn't sp= ecify anything related to the ordering of the tags in the TLV. In fact, th= e only text that I could find related to origination of the information is = this: When there is a change or removal of an administrative affiliation of a node, the node MUST re-originate the RI LSA with the latest set of node administrative tags. ..it says nothing about how the set is ordered: random, chronological, some= type of numeric order, etc. While it might have been nice (for some applications) to have some type of predictability/persistence, not having a= n order is ok. The text in 3.2 that reads: There is no need to specify the order. Implementations are free = to pick any order since the receiver's actions are based on tag set and not= on the order. I believe, this is clarified in section 3.2 in details. The semantics of the tag order has no meaning. That is, there is no implied meaning to the ordering of the tags that indicates a certain operation or set of operations that need to be performed based on the ordering. ...is also fine, and it (implicitly) covers the risk. The piece of text I have a problem with is this: The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unorder= ed list.=20 As you hinted above, because the draft doesn't provide guidance on ordering= , an implementation can choose to do so without harming applications that a= ssume nothing -- an operator may want to take advantage of this "ordering f= eature" (for whatever purpose), but this document would say "MUST be consid= ered unordered"..limiting future policy implementations. As explained in the response above, I believe admin tags are gen= eric enough to support a case when policy is to be based on order. As with the discussion (in the other thread) about the potential definition= of well-known values (change from "MUST NOT" to "not expected"), this is a= lso a case where the use of normative (rfc2119) language makes no sense (at= least to me). This is changed to "are not expected to" in the latest update. >Added below text in section 3.2.1 >" This section describes general rules/ regulations and guidelines for=20 >using and interpreting an administrative tag which will facilitate=20 >interoperable implementations by vendors." 3.2, right?=20 -08 version has section 3.2.1. Pls see attached. To hopefully speed the process up, let me be specific about the other rfc2119 occurrences in 3.2 that I have an issue with (in order of appearance): 1. "Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be used = in policy to perform a policy action." Ben already mentioned that the "MAY" seems more descriptive than normative.= . I agree. ok. Changing "MAY" to descriptive "may". However, there is still the "MUST". All the tags are about a node, so they= are in fact all related. Also, because these are opaque tags, the operato= r can encode and interpret them anyway they want. Again, the "MUST" makes = no sense. changing it to must. 2. "Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate i= ndependent characteristics of a node." With this statement you're trying to limit what the operator can use the ta= gs for. Operationally this sentence is easy to ignore because there's no d= efinition of what an "independent characteristic" is..so the use of "SHOULD= " makes no sense. Changing to should 3. "The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unorde= red list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of mult= iple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant = upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commuta= tive operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not chan= ge their outcome)." Already discussed above. 4. "To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node adm= inistrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a router in R= I LSAs of different scopes." Why not? Given that all the tags are subject to local interpretation, it is very pos= sible than an operator could use the same value to mean different things at= the different scopes. [I know that we have 32 bits...but it is obviously easier for anyone to loo= k at the TLV and remember what the value "5" means than to have to remember= ranges between 34322-34332..or other numbers for the different scopes.] That's the exact point this statement is trying to make. There i= s no need to associate meaning based on flooding scope. If such a feature i= s needed operator can very well use different tags. I believe such rules he= lp the vendors to define and implement local policies and operators to plan= and work in a framework. Otherwise the policy rule space becomes huge and = not all vendors will implement all of them. 5. "The same tag MAY be advertised in multiple RI LSAs of the same scope, f= or example, OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) may advertise the same tag in are= a-scope RI LSAs in multiple areas connected to the ABR." I don't have a real problem with this one..but (going back to the same point) if the tags are subject to local interpretation and use, then advert= ising anything is ok..so I think that the "MAY" is really descriptive, and = shouldn't be normative. 6. "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be r= easonably small and stable...implementations supporting the per-node admini= strative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the network topolo= gy (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or reachability of routes." Again, why not? I know the point is stability. Just as an example, the ap= plication described in Section 4.4. (Mobile back-haul network service deployment) says that the tags could represent a ring..which will obviously= change if the topology changes. Ring nodes are assigned tag values based on configuration and if= one of the links breaks and the ring is no more a closed ring, the admin t= ag associated with the ring Nodes does not change. It changes only by changing t= he configuration on that node. =20 In this case it is obviously ok to describe the potential impact of too man= y changes..but trying to control it with the "MUST NOT" is just something t= hat can't be enforced. I believe normative language is necessary to enforce otherwise i= mplementations will be free to say compliance to this document and not foll= ow any of these suggestions. Many of the inter-op issues would be discovere= d only via testing which is expensive.=20 7. "The node administrative tags associated with a node that originates tag= s for the purpose of any computation or processing at a receiving node SHOU= LD be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all the r= eceived RI LSA instances originated by that node." Not a problem with this one either..but you're probably missing a "per floo= ding scope" somewhere. All RI LSA instances includes all flooding scopes. 8. "When an RI LSA is received that changes the set of tags applicable to a= ny originating node, a receiving node MUST repeat any computation or proces= sing that is based on those administrative tags." The computation/processing is locally dependent and may not require repeati= ng even if the values changed -- much less if the set changed but not the values. The action should be to at least check if the change impact the application, but I think the "MUST" is out of place. Changing it as below. " When an RI LSA is received that changes the set of tags applicable to any= originating node, a receiving node which has features depending on node ad= ministrative tags MUST repeat any computation or processing that is based o= n those administrative tags . . . >All the references related to rfc4970 should be changed to=20 >draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis. > Is it OK to reference drafts as Normative refrence? Yes. Thanks! 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from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com (173.37.102.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:50:11 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:50:11 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Shraddha Hegde , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJuCumG1ZA/D0Cj5vEpcyU0Zp5sUYCAgAAuTQCAAbA8AP//5uGA Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:50:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <447C1CE1F2606940982BCC840DE149C0@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:50:31 -0000 On 10/16/15, 5:20 AM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: Shraddha: Hi! I'm just leaving in the still outstanding issues. Thanks! Alvaro. . . . >>For ex: We have a statement administrative tag order has no meaning. >>If this document does not specify such a statement, there I every >>possibility some implementation will have policies that will look at >>the order in which the tags are encoded. Some other implementation >>which does not care about the order of the tag might keep changing it >>at every LSA refresh so it's hard to get them to interoperate. > >This is a good point to talk about. I understand the potential problems >with re-origination/refresh -- one of them being that the document >doesn't specify anything related to the ordering of the tags in the TLV. >In fact, the only text that I could find related to origination of the >information is this: > > When there is a change or removal of an administrative affiliation of > a node, the node MUST re-originate the RI LSA with the latest set of > node administrative tags. > > >..it says nothing about how the set is ordered: random, chronological, >some type of numeric order, etc. While it might have been nice (for some >applications) to have some type of predictability/persistence, not having >an order is ok. The text in 3.2 that reads: > > There is no need to specify the order. Implementations are >free to pick any order since the receiver's actions are based on tag set >and not on the order. >I believe, this is clarified in section 3.2 in details. > > > The semantics of the tag order has no meaning. That is, there is no > implied meaning to the ordering of the tags that indicates a certain > operation or set of operations that need to be performed based on the > ordering. > > >...is also fine, and it (implicitly) covers the risk. > >The piece of text I have a problem with is this: > > The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an >unordered list.=20 > >As you hinted above, because the draft doesn't provide guidance on >ordering, an implementation can choose to do so without harming >applications that assume nothing -- an operator may want to take >advantage of this "ordering feature" (for whatever purpose), but this >document would say "MUST be considered unordered"..limiting future policy >implementations. > > As explained in the response above, I believe admin tags are >generic enough to support a case when policy is to be based on order. At the expense of complicating the policy definition, configuration, management, etc.. Contrary to what you wrote in the Abstract: "This allows simplification, ease of management and control.." I think we agree that order doesn't have to be specified. What we're not in agreement on is the fact that if an implementation chooses to implement an order (as you said above "Implementations are free to pick any order"), and provides policy constructs to act on the order (implementation-specific detail), then the operator can use those features to his/her advantage regardless of what this document says. IOW, "MUST be considered an unordered list" doesn't reflect a reasonable expectation and can't really be enforced. >As with the discussion (in the other thread) about the potential >definition of well-known values (change from "MUST NOT" to "not >expected"), this is also a case where the use of normative (rfc2119) >language makes no sense (at least to me). > > This is changed to "are not expected to" in the latest update. The text in -08 still says: administrative tags. The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not change their outcome). > >>Added below text in section 3.2.1 >>" This section describes general rules/ regulations and guidelines for >>using and interpreting an administrative tag which will facilitate >>interoperable implementations by vendors." > >3.2, right?=20 > > -08 version has section 3.2.1. Pls see attached. > >To hopefully speed the process up, let me be specific about the other >rfc2119 occurrences in 3.2 that I have an issue with (in order of >appearance): > >1. "Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be >used in policy to perform a policy action." > >Ben already mentioned that the "MAY" seems more descriptive than >normative.. I agree. > > ok. Changing "MAY" to descriptive "may". > >However, there is still the "MUST". All the tags are about a node, so >they are in fact all related. Also, because these are opaque tags, the >operator can encode and interpret them anyway they want. Again, the >"MUST" makes no sense. >changing it to must. > >2. "Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate >independent characteristics of a node." > >With this statement you're trying to limit what the operator can use the >tags for. Operationally this sentence is easy to ignore because there's >no definition of what an "independent characteristic" is..so the use of >"SHOULD" makes no sense. >Changing to should > > >3. "The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an >unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence >of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be >reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be >considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following >tag B does not change their outcome)." > >Already discussed above. > > >4. "To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node >administrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a router >in RI LSAs of different scopes." > >Why not? > >Given that all the tags are subject to local interpretation, it is very >possible than an operator could use the same value to mean different >things at the different scopes. > >[I know that we have 32 bits...but it is obviously easier for anyone to >look at the TLV and remember what the value "5" means than to have to >remember ranges between 34322-34332..or other numbers for the different >scopes.] > > That's the exact point this statement is trying to make. There >is no need to associate meaning based on flooding scope. If such a >feature is needed operator can very well use different tags. I believe >such rules help the vendors to define and implement local policies and >operators to plan and work in a framework. Otherwise the policy rule >space becomes huge and not all vendors will implement all of them. Again, you're claiming an opaque space subject to local interpretation, but then constraining how to use them..and not meeting the "simplification, ease of management and control" claim. >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to flood the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new 3.2.1: "The meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the network local policy and is controlled via the configuration." Apparently not. :-( BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: ... If a node administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the originator(s). [I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what should be done if the same value was received with different flooding scopes.] Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that specific value is not to be used? If so, what about policies in which the operator is looking for two (or maybe more) tags to be present to take an action? If all the tags for all scopes are declared conflicting then you may be breaking more than one policy -- and depending on the expected action the disruption may be significant. . . . =20 >6. "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be >reasonably small and stable...implementations supporting the per-node >administrative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the >network topology (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or >reachability of routes." > >Again, why not? I know the point is stability. Just as an example, the >application described in Section 4.4. (Mobile back-haul network service >deployment) says that the tags could represent a ring..which will >obviously change if the topology changes. > Ring nodes are assigned tag values based on configuration and >if one of the links breaks and the ring is no more a closed ring, the >admin tag associated with the ring > Nodes does not change. It changes only by changing >the configuration on that node. > =20 > >In this case it is obviously ok to describe the potential impact of too >many changes..but trying to control it with the "MUST NOT" is just >something that can't be enforced. > > I believe normative language is necessary to enforce otherwise >implementations will be free to say compliance to this document and not >follow any of these suggestions. Many of the inter-op issues would be >discovered only via testing which is expensive. Suggestions shouldn't be normative. The real problem is not whether the tags are configured to change when the topology does, the real problem is for the tags to change a lot and become unstable. The only reason the tags will become unstable due to topology changes is if the topology is unstable itself. However, there may be other reasons for tag instability. For example, what it someone decides they want a tag to reflect available bandwidth (or any other constantly changing parameter)? My point here is that it is ok for you to put in the suggestion about stability. It would be even better if you talked about rate limiting the origination of the TLVs with updated/changed tags (which is the stability you seem to want to enforce); you can even make that normative. However, you're trying (again) to limit potential applications that may not result in the stability problem that you're trying to prevent..and at the same time leaving the door open to other potential stability issues. In short, if stability is your concern, then address it directly! >=20 >7. "The node administrative tags associated with a node that originates >tags for the purpose of any computation or processing at a receiving node >SHOULD be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all >the received RI LSA instances originated by that node." > >Not a problem with this one either..but you're probably missing a "per >flooding scope" somewhere. > All RI LSA instances includes all flooding scopes. This goes back to our conversation about scopes above. From nobody Fri Oct 16 06:05:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CF21B2A02; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:05:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L2LtcrNxMBsw; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.rob.sh (cappuccino.rob.sh [IPv6:2a03:9800:10:4c::cafe:b00c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E02B1B29D4; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [2601:681:201:5165:4c6f:3d4c:626f:3130] (helo=piccolo.local) by cappuccino.rob.sh with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zn4gu-00013m-Fr; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:05:00 +0100 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:03:13 -0600 From: Rob Shakir To: Shraddha Hegde , The IESG , "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (334) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?ospf=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?ospf-chairs=40ietf.org?=" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:05:24 -0000 Alvaro, Picking up on one particular point: On 16 October 2015 at 05:50:48, Alvaro Retana (aretana) (aretana=40cisco.= com) wrote: > > What we're not in agreement on is the fact that if an implementation = =20 > chooses to implement an order (as you said above =22Implementations =20 > are free > to pick any order=22), and provides policy constructs to act on =20 > the order > (implementation-specific detail), then the operator can use =20 > those features > to his/her advantage regardless of what this document says. =20 > IOW, =22MUST be > considered an unordered list=22 doesn't reflect a reasonable =20 > expectation and > can't really be enforced. I think the opposite is true. If we have no guarantee of order, then vend= or C can sort tags numerically ascending, and vendor D can sort tags nume= rically descending. Based on this, one could have a policy that matches (= 1 BE=46ORE 2) which is triggered only when advertisements are received fr= om a vendor C box, and not a vendor D one. Given that operationally, we do not care whether it was a vendor C or D b= ox =5B0=5D, then this actually will mean that we have different logic app= lied based on the implementation choice. If we are to allow tags to be co= mbined non-commutitvately, then we need to have logic that says that the = ordering matters (and defined how it is done). If we do not, then we need= strong guidance to implementors (of the specification AND operators) tha= t they cannot rely on order. A murky middle ground is that we end up with inconsistent treatment of ta= gs across different implementations, which creates pain for network opera= tors trying to use them, or introducing a new implementation into their n= etwork (all policies that previously worked based on order, suddenly don=E2= =80=99t based on this new implementation having different logic). r. =5B0=5D: And if we did, we could just create a new tag that specifies the= vendor, like we could have one that specifies the role. From nobody Fri Oct 16 06:25:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC181A1B07; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:25:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fk59uLh0SxLR; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4481C1A1B00; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117AFBEDC; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:25:05 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ZqLltqD1PYN; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:25:04 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.62.192] (cswireless62-192.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.62.192]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56F0DBE5B; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:25:04 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1445001904; bh=nz35pULvaSRxf55ffcJRPEFNJI5/T2qUzGGEiITk62k=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=APN8Ly/V6h/Ni4gE0Mt2VDu+dkp1QNe0DsWfGwhmnX/T64SbtYRREsYdp+92FV1Rt zaHvtiwqiP7TvRUDBBxgwHZGHoippd9Crd3mjnLpqE2suYyWZPst56Uvzms4pEErGe lq95R4utxDr0mU4pS/lTdUrFms2zYiavyyx1IeVg= To: Shraddha Hegde , The IESG References: <20151015123926.4163.92607.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <5620FAB0.4040707@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:25:04 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:25:08 -0000 On 16/10/15 07:20, Shraddha Hegde wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > Pls see inline.. > > -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Farrell > [mailto:stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie] Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 > 6:09 PM To: The IESG Cc: > draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; > acee@cisco.com; ospf@ietf.org Subject: Stephen Farrell's No Objection > on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) > > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more > information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - I think Alavaro and Brian make some good points. I'll be interested > in how that discussion turns out. > > - Good to see that you recognise that even opaque tag values can > expose sensitive information (the attacker isn't limited in how they > are allowed interpret what they see). However, given that we > recognise that confidentiality ought be provided sometimes, isn't > there an onus on us to actually provide some usable way to get that > service? If so, then who is looking at that problem? If not, then why > is that acceptable? (This isn't a discuss as I don't think there is > any PII or similar information being transferred, and the > confidentiality requirement here really relates to network topology > etc. But please do correct me if one of these tags could be PII-like > and I'll make this a discuss if that's better.) > > OSPF in itself does not have ways to provide > confidentiality but in cases where it is needed OSPF can run on top > of IPSEC tunnels which can encrypt the OSPF control packets. IPSEC > mechanisms can also be applied to OSPF packets using RFC 4552 for > OSPFv3. Adding below text to the draft. > > Node administrative tags may be used by operators to indicate > geographical location or other sensitive information. As indicated in > and OSPF > authentication mechanisms do not provide confidentiality and the > information carried in node administrative tags could be leaked to an > IGP snooper. Confidentiality for the OSPF control packets can be > achieved by either running OSPF on top of IP Security (IPSEC) tunnels > or by applying IPSEC based security mechanisms as described in target="RFC4552"/> > That's good text, but is it realistic to run OSPF over IPsec in a way that'll prevent snooping but not get in the way of routing? I'd much prefer we admit there can be an issue for which we don't have a good answer instead of us pretending there's an answer when we know or suspect the mitigation won't work in practice. So unless you know that OSPF can be run in practice over IPsec in a way that'll mitigate this I'd say removing the last sentence would be much better. Cheers, S. From nobody Fri Oct 16 06:32:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB261B2AE3; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:32:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ObbSOuptymvM; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor35.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C95411B2AE2; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 21A95C04AF; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:32:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.61]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C11971A0054; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:32:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b91c:ea2c:ac8a:7462%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:32:44 +0200 From: To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" , Shraddha Hegde Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJuCumG1ZA/D0Cj5vEpcyU0Zp5sUYCAgAAuTQCAAbA8AP//5uGAgAAF8DA= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:32:44 +0000 Message-ID: <27141_1445002365_5620FC7D_27141_1910_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F67CF2E@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:32:51 -0000 Alvaro, Shraddha, Please see inline [Bruno] > From: Alvaro Retana (aretana) [mailto:aretana@cisco.com] > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 1:50 PM >=20 > On 10/16/15, 5:20 AM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: >=20 > Shraddha: >=20 > Hi! >=20 > I'm just leaving in the still outstanding issues. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Alvaro. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > . . . > >>For ex: We have a statement administrative tag order has no meaning. > >>If this document does not specify such a statement, there I every > >>possibility some implementation will have policies that will look at > >>the order in which the tags are encoded. Some other implementation > >>which does not care about the order of the tag might keep changing it > >>at every LSA refresh so it's hard to get them to interoperate. > > > >This is a good point to talk about. I understand the potential problems > >with re-origination/refresh -- one of them being that the document > >doesn't specify anything related to the ordering of the tags in the TLV. > >In fact, the only text that I could find related to origination of the > >information is this: > > > > When there is a change or removal of an administrative affiliation of > > a node, the node MUST re-originate the RI LSA with the latest set of > > node administrative tags. > > > > > >..it says nothing about how the set is ordered: random, chronological, > >some type of numeric order, etc. While it might have been nice (for some > >applications) to have some type of predictability/persistence, not having > >an order is ok. The text in 3.2 that reads: > > > > There is no need to specify the order. Implementations are > >free to pick any order since the receiver's actions are based on tag set > >and not on the order. > >I believe, this is clarified in section 3.2 in details. > > > > > > The semantics of the tag order has no meaning. That is, there is no > > implied meaning to the ordering of the tags that indicates a certain > > operation or set of operations that need to be performed based on the > > ordering. > > > > > >...is also fine, and it (implicitly) covers the risk. [Bruno] Good. [REF1] > > > >The piece of text I have a problem with is this: > > > > The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an > >unordered list. [Bruno] Personally, I see what Shraddha means, and I'm fine with the text. But If you have a problem with this sentence, I'd say we could remove it as= , for me, [REF1] say the same thing and would be enough. > >As you hinted above, because the draft doesn't provide guidance on > >ordering, an implementation can choose to do so without harming > >applications that assume nothing -- an operator may want to take > >advantage of this "ordering feature" (for whatever purpose), but this > >document would say "MUST be considered unordered"..limiting future > policy > >implementations. > > > > As explained in the response above, I believe admin tags are > >generic enough to support a case when policy is to be based on order. >=20 > At the expense of complicating the policy definition, configuration, > management, etc.. Contrary to what you wrote in the Abstract: "This > allows simplification, ease of management and control.." >=20 >=20 > I think we agree that order doesn't have to be specified. >=20 > What we're not in agreement on is the fact that if an implementation > chooses to implement an order (as you said above "Implementations are free > to pick any order"), and provides policy constructs to act on the order > (implementation-specific detail), then the operator can use those features > to his/her advantage regardless of what this document says.=20 [Bruno] I don't think so because 2 different implementations are involved: - the one (a) setting the tag (and advertising it in OSPF) - the one (b) receiving it in OSPF and using the it in the policy The point is that node "b" cannot assume that node "a" advertised the tags = in OSPF in the same order that the operator has configured. > IOW, "MUST be > considered an unordered list" doesn't reflect a reasonable expectation and > can't really be enforced. [Bruno] Again IMO an option is to remove that sentence. Or may be :s/MUST b= e considered/is" which remove the "enforcibility" issue. The more important one is the next "Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of multiple tags [...], they MUST NOT be reliant u= pon the order of the tags [..]" with possibly :s/order of the tags/order of the received tags" -- Bruno=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >As with the discussion (in the other thread) about the potential > >definition of well-known values (change from "MUST NOT" to "not > >expected"), this is also a case where the use of normative (rfc2119) > >language makes no sense (at least to me). > > > > This is changed to "are not expected to" in the latest update. >=20 > The text in -08 still says: >=20 > administrative tags. The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST > be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented > based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are > present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., > all policies should be considered commutative operations, such that > tag A preceding or following tag B does not change their outcome). >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > >>Added below text in section 3.2.1 > >>" This section describes general rules/ regulations and guidelines for > >>using and interpreting an administrative tag which will facilitate > >>interoperable implementations by vendors." > > > >3.2, right? > > > > -08 version has section 3.2.1. Pls see attached. > > > >To hopefully speed the process up, let me be specific about the other > >rfc2119 occurrences in 3.2 that I have an issue with (in order of > >appearance): > > > >1. "Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be > >used in policy to perform a policy action." > > > >Ben already mentioned that the "MAY" seems more descriptive than > >normative.. I agree. > > > > ok. Changing "MAY" to descriptive "may". > > > >However, there is still the "MUST". All the tags are about a node, so > >they are in fact all related. Also, because these are opaque tags, the > >operator can encode and interpret them anyway they want. Again, the > >"MUST" makes no sense. > >changing it to must. > > > >2. "Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate > >independent characteristics of a node." > > > >With this statement you're trying to limit what the operator can use the > >tags for. Operationally this sentence is easy to ignore because there's > >no definition of what an "independent characteristic" is..so the use of > >"SHOULD" makes no sense. > >Changing to should > > > > > >3. "The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an > >unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence > >of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be > >reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be > >considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following > >tag B does not change their outcome)." > > > >Already discussed above. > > > > > >4. "To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node > >administrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a router > >in RI LSAs of different scopes." > > > >Why not? > > > >Given that all the tags are subject to local interpretation, it is very > >possible than an operator could use the same value to mean different > >things at the different scopes. > > > >[I know that we have 32 bits...but it is obviously easier for anyone to > >look at the TLV and remember what the value "5" means than to have to > >remember ranges between 34322-34332..or other numbers for the > different > >scopes.] > > > > That's the exact point this statement is trying to make. There > >is no need to associate meaning based on flooding scope. If such a > >feature is needed operator can very well use different tags. I believe > >such rules help the vendors to define and implement local policies and > >operators to plan and work in a framework. Otherwise the policy rule > >space becomes huge and not all vendors will implement all of them. >=20 > Again, you're claiming an opaque space subject to local interpretation, > but then constraining how to use them..and not meeting the > "simplification, ease of management and control" claim. >=20 > >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to flo= od > the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new 3.2.1: "The > meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the network local > policy and is controlled via the configuration." Apparently not. :-( >=20 > BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: >=20 > ... If a node > administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting > tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an > error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the > originator(s). >=20 >=20 > [I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what should > be done if the same value was received with different flooding scopes.] >=20 > Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that > specific value is not to be used? If so, what about policies in which the > operator is looking for two (or maybe more) tags to be present to take an > action? If all the tags for all scopes are declared conflicting then you > may be breaking more than one policy -- and depending on the expected > action the disruption may be significant. >=20 > . . . > >6. "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be > >reasonably small and stable...implementations supporting the per-node > >administrative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the > >network topology (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or > >reachability of routes." > > > >Again, why not? I know the point is stability. Just as an example, the > >application described in Section 4.4. (Mobile back-haul network service > >deployment) says that the tags could represent a ring..which will > >obviously change if the topology changes. > > Ring nodes are assigned tag values based on configuration and > >if one of the links breaks and the ring is no more a closed ring, the > >admin tag associated with the ring > > Nodes does not change. It changes only by changing > >the configuration on that node. > > > > > >In this case it is obviously ok to describe the potential impact of too > >many changes..but trying to control it with the "MUST NOT" is just > >something that can't be enforced. > > > > I believe normative language is necessary to enforce otherwise > >implementations will be free to say compliance to this document and not > >follow any of these suggestions. Many of the inter-op issues would be > >discovered only via testing which is expensive. >=20 > Suggestions shouldn't be normative. >=20 > The real problem is not whether the tags are configured to change when the > topology does, the real problem is for the tags to change a lot and become > unstable. The only reason the tags will become unstable due to topology > changes is if the topology is unstable itself. However, there may be > other reasons for tag instability. For example, what it someone decides > they want a tag to reflect available bandwidth (or any other constantly > changing parameter)? >=20 > My point here is that it is ok for you to put in the suggestion about > stability. It would be even better if you talked about rate limiting the > origination of the TLVs with updated/changed tags (which is the stability > you seem to want to enforce); you can even make that normative. However, > you're trying (again) to limit potential applications that may not result > in the stability problem that you're trying to prevent..and at the same > time leaving the door open to other potential stability issues. >=20 > In short, if stability is your concern, then address it directly! >=20 >=20 > > > >7. "The node administrative tags associated with a node that originates > >tags for the purpose of any computation or processing at a receiving node > >SHOULD be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs in all > >the received RI LSA instances originated by that node." > > > >Not a problem with this one either..but you're probably missing a "per > >flooding scope" somewhere. > > All RI LSA instances includes all flooding scopes. >=20 > This goes back to our conversation about scopes above. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al= tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorization. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange shall not be liable if th= is message was modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Fri Oct 16 07:23:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24BAA1B2C2C; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p4yYyayoockX; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CD501B2C1E; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2288; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445005405; x=1446215005; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=1f/tOXcH4mxckt4URgKp7PHQvazwLAgVKVUGLkNCWmo=; b=DBMCsfKAHl3ep4ZARbqxc8P4KMllYnTpnjpSOpHH7an1sLagJ0g3Hliu lv14r3eeOfD6mAHFyFSyimEx+dhKUwEzDhy/cZrV0eFfQU/U5B4Dkj4zF YkPwIgmZ1yfZA3rApNyfQUEM+FKckd9gIm60JCPEZhMcYnJi/7FIL8u/m 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AVAgDXByFW/5JdJa1dgyaBQga5RoQhAQ2BWYYeAoExOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEJwEBBHkQAgEIDgouMiUCBAENBYguw1UBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXhnYBhH2FDQeELgEEjUiFDoNHAYgIhRKBWJZJg24BHwEBQoIRHRaBP3GEYYEGAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,689,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="38188727" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Oct 2015 14:23:08 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com (xch-rcd-014.cisco.com [173.37.102.24]) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9GEN8Hn023820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:23:08 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com (173.37.102.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:22:53 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:22:53 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Rob Shakir , Shraddha Hegde , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJuCumG1ZA/D0Cj5vEpcyU0Zp5sUYCAgAAuTQCAAbA8AP//5uGAgABXaoD//9NAgA== Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:22:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <64D7216AC504054EB5658A81CFFB1809@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:23:27 -0000 On 10/16/15, 9:03 AM, "Rob Shakir" wrote: Rob: Hi! >Picking up on one particular point: Are you advocating for the draft to specify an ordering scheme, or at just leaving it at "MUST be considered unordered"? Your text below says one or the other, just wondering about preference. Thanks! Alvaro. > > >On 16 October 2015 at 05:50:48, Alvaro Retana (aretana) >(aretana@cisco.com) wrote: >> > What we're not in agreement on is the fact that if an implementation >> chooses to implement an order (as you said above "Implementations >> are free >> to pick any order"), and provides policy constructs to act on >> the order >> (implementation-specific detail), then the operator can use >> those features >> to his/her advantage regardless of what this document says. >> IOW, "MUST be >> considered an unordered list" doesn't reflect a reasonable >> expectation and >> can't really be enforced. > >I think the opposite is true. If we have no guarantee of order, then >vendor C can sort tags numerically ascending, and vendor D can sort tags >numerically descending. Based on this, one could have a policy that >matches (1 BEFORE 2) which is triggered only when advertisements are >received from a vendor C box, and not a vendor D one. > >Given that operationally, we do not care whether it was a vendor C or D >box [0], then this actually will mean that we have different logic >applied based on the implementation choice. If we are to allow tags to be >combined non-commutitvately, then we need to have logic that says that >the ordering matters (and defined how it is done). If we do not, then we >need strong guidance to implementors (of the specification AND operators) >that they cannot rely on order. > >A murky middle ground is that we end up with inconsistent treatment of >tags across different implementations, which creates pain for network >operators trying to use them, or introducing a new implementation into >their network (all policies that previously worked based on order, >suddenly don=B9t based on this new implementation having different logic). > >r. > >[0]: And if we did, we could just create a new tag that specifies the >vendor, like we could have one that specifies the role. > > > From nobody Fri Oct 16 07:26:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8541B2C2F; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:26:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fiem7taEFuzh; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.rob.sh (cappuccino.rob.sh [IPv6:2a03:9800:10:4c::cafe:b00c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1643A1B2C2D; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.87.120.126] (helo=jivecommunications.com) by cappuccino.rob.sh with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zn5xR-0001Lb-NU; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:26:09 +0100 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:26:35 -0600 From: Rob Shakir To: Shraddha Hegde , The IESG , "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (331) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?ospf=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?ospf-chairs=40ietf.org?=" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:26:33 -0000 Hi Alvaro, On October 16, 2015 at 08:23:44, Alvaro Retana (aretana) (aretana=40cisco= .com) wrote: > Are you advocating for the draft to specify an ordering scheme, or at j= ust > leaving it at =22MUST be considered unordered=22=3F Your text below say= s one or > the other, just wondering about preference. I prefer leaving =22MUST be considered unordered=E2=80=9D in the document= , I currently cannot envisage any use cases that would need to consider o= rdering (in general, I think this can be dealt with by creating a new tag= ). Kind regards, r. 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1137B8E6EA21D244B9EE8BA592C45C0E@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:32:23 -0000 SGkgUm9iLCBBbHZhcm8sIA0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIGEgZ3JlYXQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiEgSXQgaXMgdW5m b3J0dW5hdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBkaWQgbm90IG9jY3VyDQplYXJsaWVyIG9uIHRoZSBPU1BGIFdHIGxp c3QuIEnigJlkIGxpa2UgdG8gZGV0ZXJtaW5lIGhvdyB3ZSBjYW4gc29saWNpdCBtb3JlDQpkaXNj dXNzaW9uIGVhcmxpZXIgaW4gdGhlIHByb2Nlc3MuIFNlZSBvbmUgaW5saW5lIGJlbG934oCmDQoN Ck9uIDEwLzE2LzE1LCAxMDoyNiBBTSwgIlJvYiBTaGFraXIiIDxyanNAcm9iLnNoPiB3cm90ZToN Cg0KPg0KPkhpIEFsdmFybywNCj4NCj5PbiBPY3RvYmVyIDE2LCAyMDE1IGF0IDA4OjIzOjQ0LCBB bHZhcm8gUmV0YW5hIChhcmV0YW5hKQ0KPihhcmV0YW5hQGNpc2NvLmNvbSkgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBB cmUgeW91IGFkdm9jYXRpbmcgZm9yIHRoZSBkcmFmdCB0byBzcGVjaWZ5IGFuIG9yZGVyaW5nIHNj aGVtZSwgb3IgYXQNCj4+anVzdA0KPj4gbGVhdmluZyBpdCBhdCAiTVVTVCBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVk IHVub3JkZXJlZCI/IFlvdXIgdGV4dCBiZWxvdyBzYXlzIG9uZQ0KPj5vcg0KPj4gdGhlIG90aGVy LCBqdXN0IHdvbmRlcmluZyBhYm91dCBwcmVmZXJlbmNlLg0KPg0KPkkgcHJlZmVyIGxlYXZpbmcg Ik1VU1QgYmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB1bm9yZGVyZWTigJ0gaW4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LCBJDQo+Y3Vy cmVudGx5IGNhbm5vdCBlbnZpc2FnZSBhbnkgdXNlIGNhc2VzIHRoYXQgd291bGQgbmVlZCB0byBj b25zaWRlcg0KPm9yZGVyaW5nIChpbiBnZW5lcmFsLCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgY2FuIGJlIGRlYWx0 IHdpdGggYnkgY3JlYXRpbmcgYSBuZXcNCj50YWcpLg0KDQpJbiB0aGlua2luZyBhYm91dCB0aGlz IGFuZCBjYXNlIG9mIG5vbmRldGVybWluaXN0aWMgYmVoYXZpb3Igd2l0aCB2YXJ5aW5nDQppbXBs ZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBvcmRlcmluZywgSSB0aGluayB3ZSBzaG91bGQga2VlcCBpdCBhcyB1bm9yZGVy ZWQgYW5kDQpkaXNjb3VyYWdlIHRoZSBjcmVhdGlvbiBvZiBwb2xpY2llcyB0aGF0IGFyZSBzZW5z aXRpdmUgdG8gb3JkZXJpbmcuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCg0KDQo+DQo+S2luZCByZWdh cmRzLA0KPnIuDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Oct 16 07:39:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5791B2CA4; 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Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:11 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:39:10 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Rob Shakir , "Shraddha Hegde" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJuCumG1ZA/D0Cj5vEpcyU0Zp5sUYCAgAAuTQCAAbA8AP//5uGAgABXaoD//9NAgIAARAuAgAABgoD//779AA== Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:39:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <669254B130C3F2489D877E0B6C6726F5@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:39:28 -0000 On 10/16/15, 10:31 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: Hi! >This is a great discussion! It is unfortunate that it did not occur >earlier on the OSPF WG list. Couldn't agree more! :-) . . . >On 10/16/15, 10:26 AM, "Rob Shakir" wrote: > >>. . . >>I prefer leaving "MUST be considered unordered=B2 in the document, I >>currently cannot envisage any use cases that would need to consider >>ordering (in general, I think this can be dealt with by creating a new >>tag). > >In thinking about this and case of nondeterministic behavior with varying >implementation ordering, I think we should keep it as unordered and >discourage the creation of policies that are sensitive to ordering. Ok..that's fine with me. Thanks! Alvaro. 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bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5621166b.29e5420a.f08a5.ffffab89@mx.google.com> X-Google-Original-Message-ID: 051916ea-c715-4656-936a-b2a74a24717c@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 20:53:13 +0530 In-Reply-To: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Anil Kumar S N To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org, The IESG , draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:23:28 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omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id A2C5422C456; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:26:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.17]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 75AC235C05A; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:26:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a1e6:3e6a:1f68:5f7e%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 17:26:23 +0200 From: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Rob Shakir , "Shraddha Hegde" , The IESG , "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJvLL/ypjzyUkSUc2T68+cxGJ5sUYCAgAAuTQCAAbA8AP//5uGAgABXaoCAABZCgIAAAQmA//++nID///yfoA== Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:26:22 +0000 Message-ID: <22323_1445009183_5621171F_22323_5667_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F67D2CF@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.10.16.141517 Archived-At: Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Oct 2015 03:53:41.6424 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1388 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 03:53:53 -0000 Alvaro, We closed on a few points but few more are still open. <.... snipping to open points...> >As with the discussion (in the other thread) about the potential=20 >definition of well-known values (change from "MUST NOT" to "not=20 >expected"), this is also a case where the use of normative (rfc2119)=20 >language makes no sense (at least to me). > > This is changed to "are not expected to" in the latest update. The text in -08 still says: administrative tags. The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not change their outcome). -08 version is updated as below for the well known values. Is yo= ur comment about well known values or tag order? "New OSPF extensions are not expected to require use of per-node administrative tags or define well-known tag values" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------- >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to flood = the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new 3.2.1: "The = meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the network local po= licy and is controlled via the configuration." Apparently not. :-( BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: ... If a node administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the originator(s). [I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what should = be done if the same value was received with different flooding scopes.] Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that spec= ific value is not to be used?=20 >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to flood = the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new 3.2.1: "The = meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the network local po= licy and is controlled via the configuration." Apparently not. :-( BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: ... If a node administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the originator(s). [I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what should = be done if the same value was received with different flooding scopes.] Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that spec= ific value is not to be used? =20 Tags are associated with nodes which advertise them. There is no= need to associate tags with scopes for any policy action. If an operator h= as any such usecase new tags can be associated with such a use-case. If so, what about policies in which the operator is looking for two (or may= be more) tags to be present to take an action? =20 The issue being described here is about same tag appearing in di= fferent scopes on a non-ABR. It's perfectly valid to associate multiple tag= s with a node. =20 If all the tags for all scopes are declared conflicting then you may be bre= aking more than one policy -- and depending on the expected action the disr= uption may be significant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The real problem is not whether the tags are configured to change when the = topology does, the real problem is for the tags to change a lot and become = unstable. The only reason the tags will become unstable due to topology ch= anges is if the topology is unstable itself. However, there may be other r= easons for tag instability. For example, what it someone decides they want= a tag to reflect available bandwidth (or any other constantly changing par= ameter)? My point here is that it is ok for you to put in the suggestion about stabi= lity. It would be even better if you talked about rate limiting the origin= ation of the TLVs with updated/changed tags (which is the stability you see= m to want to enforce); you can even make that normative. However, you're tr= ying (again) to limit potential applications that may not result in the sta= bility problem that you're trying to prevent..and at the same time leaving = the door open to other potential stability issues. In short, if stability is your concern, then address it directly! The paragraph begins with below statement. "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be reasonably small and stable." I think that should address the stability problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------ Rgds Shraddha -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Retana (aretana) [mailto:aretana@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:20 PM To: Shraddha Hegde ; The IESG Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) ; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@= ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf= -node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) On 10/16/15, 5:20 AM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: Shraddha: Hi! I'm just leaving in the still outstanding issues. Thanks! Alvaro. . . . >>For ex: We have a statement administrative tag order has no meaning. >>If this document does not specify such a statement, there I every=20 >>possibility some implementation will have policies that will look at=20 >>the order in which the tags are encoded. Some other implementation=20 >>which does not care about the order of the tag might keep changing it=20 >>at every LSA refresh so it's hard to get them to interoperate. > >This is a good point to talk about. I understand the potential=20 >problems with re-origination/refresh -- one of them being that the=20 >document doesn't specify anything related to the ordering of the tags in t= he TLV. >In fact, the only text that I could find related to origination of the=20 >information is this: > > When there is a change or removal of an administrative affiliation of > a node, the node MUST re-originate the RI LSA with the latest set of > node administrative tags. > > >..it says nothing about how the set is ordered: random, chronological,=20 >some type of numeric order, etc. While it might have been nice (for=20 >some >applications) to have some type of predictability/persistence, not=20 >having an order is ok. The text in 3.2 that reads: > > There is no need to specify the order. Implementations are=20 >free to pick any order since the receiver's actions are based on tag=20 >set and not on the order. >I believe, this is clarified in section 3.2 in details. > > > The semantics of the tag order has no meaning. That is, there is no > implied meaning to the ordering of the tags that indicates a certain > operation or set of operations that need to be performed based on the > ordering. > > >...is also fine, and it (implicitly) covers the risk. > >The piece of text I have a problem with is this: > > The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an=20 >unordered list. > >As you hinted above, because the draft doesn't provide guidance on=20 >ordering, an implementation can choose to do so without harming=20 >applications that assume nothing -- an operator may want to take=20 >advantage of this "ordering feature" (for whatever purpose), but this=20 >document would say "MUST be considered unordered"..limiting future=20 >policy implementations. > > As explained in the response above, I believe admin tags are=20 >generic enough to support a case when policy is to be based on order. At the expense of complicating the policy definition, configuration, manage= ment, etc.. Contrary to what you wrote in the Abstract: "This allows simpl= ification, ease of management and control.." I think we agree that order doesn't have to be specified. What we're not in agreement on is the fact that if an implementation choose= s to implement an order (as you said above "Implementations are free to pic= k any order"), and provides policy constructs to act on the order (implemen= tation-specific detail), then the operator can use those features to his/he= r advantage regardless of what this document says. IOW, "MUST be considere= d an unordered list" doesn't reflect a reasonable expectation and can't rea= lly be enforced. >As with the discussion (in the other thread) about the potential=20 >definition of well-known values (change from "MUST NOT" to "not=20 >expected"), this is also a case where the use of normative (rfc2119)=20 >language makes no sense (at least to me). > > This is changed to "are not expected to" in the latest update. The text in -08 still says: administrative tags. The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies should be considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding or following tag B does not change their outcome). > >>Added below text in section 3.2.1 >>" This section describes general rules/ regulations and guidelines for=20 >>using and interpreting an administrative tag which will facilitate=20 >>interoperable implementations by vendors." > >3.2, right?=20 > > -08 version has section 3.2.1. Pls see attached. > >To hopefully speed the process up, let me be specific about the other >rfc2119 occurrences in 3.2 that I have an issue with (in order of >appearance): > >1. "Each tag MUST be treated as an independent identifier that MAY be=20 >used in policy to perform a policy action." > >Ben already mentioned that the "MAY" seems more descriptive than=20 >normative.. I agree. > > ok. Changing "MAY" to descriptive "may". > >However, there is still the "MUST". All the tags are about a node, so=20 >they are in fact all related. Also, because these are opaque tags, the=20 >operator can encode and interpret them anyway they want. Again, the=20 >"MUST" makes no sense. >changing it to must. > >2. "Tags carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to=20 >indicate independent characteristics of a node." > >With this statement you're trying to limit what the operator can use=20 >the tags for. Operationally this sentence is easy to ignore because=20 >there's no definition of what an "independent characteristic" is..so=20 >the use of "SHOULD" makes no sense. >Changing to should > > >3. "The administrative tag list within the TLV MUST be considered an=20 >unordered list. Whilst policies may be implemented based on the=20 >presence of multiple tags (e.g., if tag A AND tag B are present), they=20 >MUST NOT be reliant upon the order of the tags (i.e., all policies=20 >should be considered commutative operations, such that tag A preceding=20 >or following tag B does not change their outcome)." > >Already discussed above. > > >4. "To avoid incomplete or inconsistent interpretations of the per-node=20 >administrative tags the same tag value MUST NOT be advertised by a=20 >router in RI LSAs of different scopes." > >Why not? > >Given that all the tags are subject to local interpretation, it is very=20 >possible than an operator could use the same value to mean different=20 >things at the different scopes. > >[I know that we have 32 bits...but it is obviously easier for anyone to=20 >look at the TLV and remember what the value "5" means than to have to=20 >remember ranges between 34322-34332..or other numbers for the different=20 >scopes.] > > That's the exact point this statement is trying to make.=20 >There is no need to associate meaning based on flooding scope. If such=20 >a feature is needed operator can very well use different tags. I=20 >believe such rules help the vendors to define and implement local=20 >policies and operators to plan and work in a framework. Otherwise the=20 >policy rule space becomes huge and not all vendors will implement all of t= hem. Again, you're claiming an opaque space subject to local interpretation, but= then constraining how to use them..and not meeting the "simplification, ea= se of management and control" claim. >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to flood = the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new 3.2.1: "The = meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the network local po= licy and is controlled via the configuration." Apparently not. :-( BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: ... If a node administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the originator(s). [I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what should = be done if the same value was received with different flooding scopes.] Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that spec= ific value is not to be used? If so, what about policies in which the oper= ator is looking for two (or maybe more) tags to be present to take an actio= n? If all the tags for all scopes are declared conflicting then you may be= breaking more than one policy -- and depending on the expected action the = disruption may be significant. . . . =20 >6. "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must=20 >be reasonably small and stable...implementations supporting the=20 >per-node administrative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in=20 >the network topology (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or=20 >reachability of routes." > >Again, why not? I know the point is stability. Just as an example,=20 >the application described in Section 4.4. (Mobile back-haul network=20 >service >deployment) says that the tags could represent a ring..which will=20 >obviously change if the topology changes. > Ring nodes are assigned tag values based on configuration=20 >and if one of the links breaks and the ring is no more a closed ring,=20 >the admin tag associated with the ring > Nodes does not change. It changes only by=20 >changing the configuration on that node. > =20 > >In this case it is obviously ok to describe the potential impact of too=20 >many changes..but trying to control it with the "MUST NOT" is just=20 >something that can't be enforced. > > I believe normative language is necessary to enforce=20 >otherwise implementations will be free to say compliance to this=20 >document and not follow any of these suggestions. Many of the inter-op=20 >issues would be discovered only via testing which is expensive. Suggestions shouldn't be normative. The real problem is not whether the tags are configured to change when the = topology does, the real problem is for the tags to change a lot and become = unstable. The only reason the tags will become unstable due to topology ch= anges is if the topology is unstable itself. However, there may be other r= easons for tag instability. For example, what it someone decides they want= a tag to reflect available bandwidth (or any other constantly changing par= ameter)? My point here is that it is ok for you to put in the suggestion about stabi= lity. It would be even better if you talked about rate limiting the origin= ation of the TLVs with updated/changed tags (which is the stability you see= m to want to enforce); you can even make that normative. However, you're tr= ying (again) to limit potential applications that may not result in the sta= bility problem that you're trying to prevent..and at the same time leaving = the door open to other potential stability issues. In short, if stability is your concern, then address it directly! >=20 >7. "The node administrative tags associated with a node that originates=20 >tags for the purpose of any computation or processing at a receiving=20 >node SHOULD be a superset of node administrative tags from all the TLVs=20 >in all the received RI LSA instances originated by that node." > >Not a problem with this one either..but you're probably missing a "per=20 >flooding scope" somewhere. > All RI LSA instances includes all flooding scopes. This goes back to our conversation about scopes above. 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xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:39:17 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Shraddha Hegde , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJuCumG1ZA/D0Cj5vEpcyU0Zp5sUYCAgAAuTQCAAbA8AP//5uGAgAR034CAAE/YAA== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:39:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9E209B81A1E8944CBB2A8CE7F83C0EF4@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:39:40 -0000 On 10/18/15, 11:53 PM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: Shraddha: Hi! I'm either completely missing the point, not explaining myself correctly, or both. We seem to be going around in circles.. :-( I'm going to clear the DISCUSS.. I trust the responsible AD and hope that the WG had the appropriate discussions. There are still some comments below. Alvaro. . . . > >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to >flood the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new >3.2.1: "The meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the >network local policy and is controlled via the configuration." >Apparently not. :-( > >BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: > > ... If a node > administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting > tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an > error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the > originator(s). > > >[I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what >should be done if the same value was received with different flooding >scopes.] > >Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that >specific value is not to be used? >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to >flood the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new >3.2.1: "The meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the >network local policy and is controlled via the configuration." >Apparently not. :-( > >BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: > > ... If a node > administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting > tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an > error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the > originator(s). > > >[I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what >should be done if the same value was received with different flooding >scopes.] > >Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that >specific value is not to be used? > > Tags are associated with nodes which advertise them. There is >no need to associate tags with scopes for any policy action. If an >operator has any such usecase new tags can be associated with such a >use-case. > > >If so, what about policies in which the operator is looking for two (or >maybe more) tags to be present to take an action? > > The issue being described here is about same tag appearing in >different scopes on a non-ABR. It's perfectly valid to associate multiple >tags with a node. If the same tag value is flooded with multiple scopes, then it will be declared conflicting (for all scopes). If there are policies that are dependent on those tags then they won't be applied -- including policies that rely on more than one tag being present (including the one declared conflicting, of course). The point of that question was to point out that by invalidating a tag the policies that will be applied won't always depend just on the remaining tags.. Your answer is: the operator can change their policies.. We're now going in circles.. >=20 >If all the tags for all scopes are declared conflicting then you may be >breaking more than one policy -- and depending on the expected action the >disruption may be significant > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >The real problem is not whether the tags are configured to change when >the topology does, the real problem is for the tags to change a lot and >become unstable. The only reason the tags will become unstable due to >topology changes is if the topology is unstable itself. However, there >may be other reasons for tag instability. For example, what it someone >decides they want a tag to reflect available bandwidth (or any other >constantly changing parameter)? > >My point here is that it is ok for you to put in the suggestion about >stability. It would be even better if you talked about rate limiting the >origination of the TLVs with updated/changed tags (which is the stability >you seem to want to enforce); you can even make that normative. However, >you're trying (again) to limit potential applications that may not result >in the stability problem that you're trying to prevent..and at the same >time leaving the door open to other potential stability issues. > >In short, if stability is your concern, then address it directly! > > The paragraph begins with below statement. > >"Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag >TLV must be reasonably small and stable." > >I think that should address the stability problems. It should. This is the text I quoted originally: "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be reasonably small and stable...implementations supporting the per-node administrative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the network topology (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or reachability of routes." Again, the point was that by not allowing the tags to be tied to changes in topology you are not necessarily doing much to limit instability. True, the topology may become unstable and the tags advertised will mirror that -- the root cause being the topology instability. But I think there can be valid applications that could follow topology changes that won't mirror instability (if the network itself is stable). Also, you focused on one thing (topology instability), leaving other reasons for tag instability without mention -- this last part was why I suggested that you might want to focus on the problem you really want to resolve and maybe talk about rate limiting. From nobody Mon Oct 19 05:42:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietf.org Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4FA1A1A5B; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 05:42:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Alvaro Retana" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019124203.32172.41366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 05:42:03 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:42:03 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am clearing my DISCUSS because we seem to be going around in circles in my exchanges with the authors. I still have some concerns about the normative language in section 3.2 (some of it has been updated as a result of our discussions) — I think that some of the text is not in line with what seems to be the intent of the extension: "…allows simplification, ease of management and control over…policies. …node-tags can be used to express and apply locally-defined network policies." Specifically, I have strong concerns about the ability (or not, as defined in the text) to flood the same tag value with different scopes, and about potential instability caused by sources other than topology changes. To all this, I trust the responsible AD and hope that the WG had the appropriate discussions, so I'm changing my ballot and not standing in the way. From nobody Mon Oct 19 13:30:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFC21AC3B9 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:29:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wa8AJOfeyC94 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1063A1A9104 for ; 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Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:47:04 -0400 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCq9PrW1ep3oWb0OUXrXKrQCznA== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 20:47:03 +0000 Message-ID: <93711831-302C-4D2D-930F-BC76FB554010@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/0.0.0.151008 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <26629C856B6F6D4D93BEFF610C82CD4D@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPiK7nN5Uwg4diFpPfzmO2aLl3j92B yWPK742sHkuW/GQKYIrisklJzcksSy3St0vgyvh/aQdrwS2+ionNXxgbGFfwdTFyckgImEj8 WtbGCmGLSVy4t56ti5GLQ0jgKKPE+Xtn2CGc5YwSvycvZgepYhMwkPj/7TgLiC0i4C4xa+Vh ZhBbWKBaYk7XRWaIeI3E5y/bmCBsPYm3846CxVkEVCV+nXsCto1XwF5i9tJOsBpGoM3fT60B s5kFxCVuPZnPBHGRgMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP/4H1igroSpzY3gkVV5KY8/oakM0B1KspsX6XPoRp LdF2tBRioqLElO6H7BBbBSVOznzCMoFRdBaSZbMQmmchNM9C0jwLSfMCRtZVjBylxalluelG BpsYgdFxTIJNdwfjnpeWhxgFOBiVeHgX+KmECbEmlhVX5h5ilOZgURLn3b/kfqiQQHpiSWp2 ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGRo8vd/hvnzT+2Mm9fvnypSU6Mrkbpi12dA1ytM3Q3u10/KOQ +d0MsacvDypFmPbUtjLt/NjOy/z7t0Ljoqpan8fej+q9H+4IsCsN9TbgeyS45++WFu41dyr/ KFtVL4x6HF/+JHbrzRsN1t0c1dp7uFvTWfbvuGyaL7hQfPv5RfvPnnFzYOE6qcRSnJFoqMVc VJwIAJk9sspvAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 20:47:09 -0000 SGkgQWNlZSwNCg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGVzY3JpYmVzIGEgcmVhbCBhbmQgYSB2 YWxpZCB1c2UgY2FzZSwgcmF0aGVyIHVzZWZ1bCB3aGVuIG9wYXF1ZSBkYXRhIG5lZWRzIHRvIGJl IGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIGluIGFuIElHUCBkb21haW4uDQpIZW5jZSBzdXBwb3J0IGZ1cnRoZXIgcHJv Z3Jlc3MuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCkplZmYNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KT24gMTAvMTkvMTUsIDIzOjI5 LCAiT1NQRiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgQWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gKGFjZWUpIiA8b3NwZi1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBhY2VlQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj5UaGlzIGRyYWZ0 IGhhcyBiZWVuIHByZXNlbnRlZCBhdCB0d28gSUVURnMgYW5kIHdoaWxlIEkgZG9u4oCZdCBhZ3Jl ZSB3aXRoDQo+c29tZSBvZiB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFzIHRoZXNlIGFwcGxpY2F0 aW9ucyByZWZlcmVuY2Ugc2hvdWxkLCBpZg0KPmZhY3QsIGJlIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCwgSSBjYW4g c2VlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHVzZSBjYXNlIGZvciBsb2NhbCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMNCj5jb3VsZCBiZSBj b21wZWxsaW5nLiBUaGlzIGlzIHRoZSB1c2Ugd2hlcmUgT1NQRiBwcm92aWRlcyBhbiBBUEkgZm9y IGxvY2FsDQo+YXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHRvIGFkdmVydGlzZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbi1zcGVjaWZpYyBp bmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aHJvdWdob3V0IHRoZQ0KPnJvdXRpbmcgZG9tYWluIGFuZCByZWNlaXZlIHRo ZSBzYW1lIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMgZnJvbSBvdGhlciByb3V0ZXJzIHJ1bm5pbmcNCj50aGF0IGFwcGxp Y2F0aW9uLiBTaW5jZSB0aGlzIGlzIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgbG9jYWwgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIGdlbmVy aWNhbGx5LA0KPm9uZSBjb3VsZCBzZWUgdGhlIHJlYXNvbiB0byBhbGxvdyBub24tc3RhbmRhcmQg cGFyYW1ldGVycyB0byBiZSBmbG9vZGVkDQo+b3BhcXVlbHkgKGkuZS4sIE9TUEYgaXMgdXNlZCBz b2xlbHkgYXMgYSBmbG9vZGluZyBtZWNoYW5pc20pLg0KPg0KPlBsZWFzZSB0YWtlIGEgbG9vayBh dCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGluZGljYXRlIHdoZXRoZXIgb3Igbm90IHlvdSBmZWVsIHRoZQ0KPk9T UEYgV0cgc2hvdWxkIHdvcmsgb24gc3VjaCBhIHNvbHV0aW9uLiBJZiB0aGVyZSBpcyBlbm91Z2gg aW50ZXJlc3QsIHdlDQo+d2lsbCBhZG9wdCBpdCBhcyBhIFdHIGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KPg0KPlRoYW5r cywNCg0KVGhhbmtzIQ0KPkFjZWUgDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+ICAgICAgIA0KPg0KPl9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+T1NQRiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj5PU1BGQGlldGYub3JnDQo+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9v c3BmDQo= From nobody Mon Oct 19 14:02:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietf.org Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E044C1ACE87; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019210219.5928.8518.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:02:19 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, The IESG , ospf-chairs@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [OSPF] Protocol Action: 'Extensions to OSPF for Advertising Optional Router Capabilities' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis-07.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:02:20 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Extensions to OSPF for Advertising Optional Router Capabilities' (draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis-07.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Open Shortest Path First IGP Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-rfc4970bis/ Technical Summary This document describes both a generic mechanism for advertising router capabilities and a TLV for advertising informational and functional capability bits. This document obsoletes RFC 4970 by providing a revised specification including support for advertisement of multiple instances of the RI LSA and a TLV for functional capabilities. Working Group Summary This document has been a WG document for more than six months. It is stable, without changes to the technical solution for more than six months. From nobody Mon Oct 19 14:30:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C5E91B2CC6 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:29:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YGT6LyTbFt4Z for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (xch-aln-015.cisco.com [173.36.7.25]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9JLTsZ1019152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:29:54 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (173.36.7.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:29:36 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:29:36 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Jeff Tantsura , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCq9PrW1ep3oWb0OUXrXKrQCznJ5zZiKA Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <93711831-302C-4D2D-930F-BC76FB554010@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <93711831-302C-4D2D-930F-BC76FB554010@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7EC5C84DF6F4A6429DB6DC287D61510C@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:29:58 -0000 U3BlYWtpbmcgYXMgYSBXRyBjb250cmlidXRvciwNCg0KSSB0ZW5kIHRvIGFncmVlIGFzIGxvbmcg YXMgb25lIGVudmlzaW9ucyBhIGZsb29kaW5nIEFQSSBmb3IgbG9jYWwNCmFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucy4g SGVuY2UsIEkgd291bGQgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGlzIHdvcmsuIEkgZG9u4oCZdCBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIGFs 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Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlG6yoGqYwcpV3BaT385jtlizawKj Rcu9e+wOzB5Tfm9k9Viy5CeTx5fLn9kCmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mi63JRQckq14dvg8awPj A5kuRk4OCQETie4jjYwQtpjEhXvr2boYuTiEBI4ySrT8fMgK4SxnlNj/7AQLSBWbgJ7Ex6k/ 2UFsEYFSiUkrb4DFmQWqJRp7+8DiwkD248+v2SBqaiQ+f9nGBGFbSVzt6WIFsVkEVCUWXd8L Vs8r4Ctxc8dasDlCAokSe5pngfVyCuhIbFt5FqyGEei676fWMEHsEpe49WQ+E8TVAhJL9pxn hrBFJV4+/scKYStK7OufDtTLAVSvKbF+lz5Eq6LElO6HUGsFJU7OfMIygVFsFpKpsxA6ZiHp mIWkYwEjyypGjtLi1LLcdCODTYzAqDkmwaa7g3HPS8tDjAIcjEo8vAv8VMKEWBPLiitzDzFK c7AoifPuX3I/VEggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAjEwenVAPjXM5dDeGvH/gWXD4/kbdkzvn5 bGqdTzLkvYGRzTw/6NfS5dcTS5zUP/5a8a9v8Ryl6LsrP8t5zrr1btOeS0Vtc2Nyj84UKX3/ /Nxnhqo9AbvLpj6riAwyENbbM68szNP65ZWUBdY3tx84sjhCaleMM1+Pe25T+caNv5pCmN48 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AQHRBcJ1zljGkIgsJkOozrcND9iPyZ5r+ypQgABz0wCAATwboIAAWwKAgAQszYCAAJfqgIAA/HFQ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 03:56:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.14] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0501MB1381; 5:xummOi8uuqTrIHOiSTfj/nuqPgSGiU1fw9QBSSV2K/g0OwJ8BnMj9K//B0Vt75XA/uNgsO1fowArbtJ0N6Vr3KdrZkMay1cOhykUPKvWqyPwQwtmyNJ/J2OnfAOPANkgusOuc1U4txp13DFlcfumPw==; 24:/WMjKZW9xv3yFB/9t8IbmKOJfJsMD7u8IaY7bqv1nV0yzLVxHTJNa/2AfTw7IAVif64slc8g0ULex0KoeyzqsFcFUjublEQo2etOaCIJFVk=; 20:fy1h78/tjXm4scN2O4X8E9/KZI1FMxckEx302PJRJPOntmF+7L9T2d5DLgz7KitRNl8nG6YmB4fw2D+XnZ0xuQ== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1381; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: 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None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Oct 2015 03:56:45.9892 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1381 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 03:57:11 -0000 Alvaro, I'll try to clarify based on my understanding of your comments. If the same tag value is flooded with multiple scopes, then it will be decl= ared conflicting (for all scopes). Yes. . If there are policies that are dependent on those tags then they won't be= applied The conflicting tag won't be considered. Lets say a node had adv= ertised 10 tags. Lets say 10th tag is conflicting and is arriving In different scopes. Only 9 tags will be sent to pol= icy.=20 If you saying just because one tag is conflicting th= e whole set of tags for that node is ignored, then that's not the case. -- including policies that rely on more than one tag being present (includ= ing the one declared conflicting, of course). The point of that question w= as to point out that by invalidating a tag the policies that will be applie= d won't always depend just on the remaining tags.. Again I don't understand your statement. Why can't the policy be= applied on only 9 tags in above example. If the policy fails because of th= e absence of 10th flag then it's an issue with the advertising router being= nod-ABR and having advertised different tags in different scopes. Do you mean to say we should not restrict same tag being advertised in diff= erent scopes? I am not sure If we can change that at this stage of the document since WG = as well as others who reviewed the document so far are OK with that restric= tion being there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------- Again, the point was that by not allowing the tags to be tied to changes in= topology you are not necessarily doing much to limit instability. True, the topology may become unstable and the tags advertised will mirror = that -- the root cause being the topology instability. But I think there c= an be valid applications that could follow topology changes that won't mirr= or instability (if the network itself is stable). Also, you focused on one= thing (topology instability), leaving other reasons for tag instability wi= thout mention -- this last part was why I suggested that you might want to = focus on the problem you really want to resolve and maybe talk about rate l= imiting. Personally, I do not think we need to talk about rate limiting o= f node-admin tags since we already have rate limiting for the LSA originati= on. Would like to hear others opinion on this. Rgds Shraddha -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Retana (aretana) [mailto:aretana@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 6:09 PM To: Shraddha Hegde ; The IESG Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) ; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@= ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf= -node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) On 10/18/15, 11:53 PM, "Shraddha Hegde" wrote: Shraddha: Hi! I'm either completely missing the point, not explaining myself correctly, o= r both. We seem to be going around in circles.. :-( I'm going to clear the DISCUSS.. I trust the responsible AD and hope that t= he WG had the appropriate discussions. There are still some comments below= . Alvaro. . . . > >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to=20 >flood the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new >3.2.1: "The meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the=20 >network local policy and is controlled via the configuration." >Apparently not. :-( > >BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: > > ... If a node > administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting > tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an > error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the > originator(s). > > >[I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what=20 >should be done if the same value was received with different flooding=20 >scopes.] > >Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that=20 >specific value is not to be used? >From section 2 (updated text): "The choice of what scope at which to=20 >flood the group tags is a matter of local policy." And form the new >3.2.1: "The meaning of a per-node administrative tag is defined by the=20 >network local policy and is controlled via the configuration." >Apparently not. :-( > >BTW, I noticed that in -08 you also added: > > ... If a node > administrative tag is received in different scopes, the conflicting > tag SHOULD not be used and this situation SHOULD be logged as an > error including the tag with conflicting scopes and the > originator(s). > > >[I know this was put in to answer the SecDir review related to what=20 >should be done if the same value was received with different flooding=20 >scopes.] > >Which is the "conflicting tag"? Does it mean that for all scopes that=20 >specific value is not to be used? > > Tags are associated with nodes which advertise them. There=20 >is no need to associate tags with scopes for any policy action. If an=20 >operator has any such usecase new tags can be associated with such a=20 >use-case. > > >If so, what about policies in which the operator is looking for two (or=20 >maybe more) tags to be present to take an action? > > The issue being described here is about same tag appearing=20 >in different scopes on a non-ABR. It's perfectly valid to associate=20 >multiple tags with a node. If the same tag value is flooded with multiple scopes, then it will be decl= ared conflicting (for all scopes). If there are policies that are dependen= t on those tags then they won't be applied -- including policies that rely = on more than one tag being present (including the one declared conflicting,= of course). The point of that question was to point out that by invalidat= ing a tag the policies that will be applied won't always depend just on the= remaining tags.. Your answer is: the operator can change their policies.. We're now going in circles.. >=20 >If all the tags for all scopes are declared conflicting then you may be=20 >breaking more than one policy -- and depending on the expected action=20 >the disruption may be significant > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >The real problem is not whether the tags are configured to change when=20 >the topology does, the real problem is for the tags to change a lot and=20 >become unstable. The only reason the tags will become unstable due to=20 >topology changes is if the topology is unstable itself. However, there=20 >may be other reasons for tag instability. For example, what it someone=20 >decides they want a tag to reflect available bandwidth (or any other=20 >constantly changing parameter)? > >My point here is that it is ok for you to put in the suggestion about=20 >stability. It would be even better if you talked about rate limiting=20 >the origination of the TLVs with updated/changed tags (which is the=20 >stability you seem to want to enforce); you can even make that=20 >normative. However, you're trying (again) to limit potential=20 >applications that may not result in the stability problem that you're=20 >trying to prevent..and at the same time leaving the door open to other pot= ential stability issues. > >In short, if stability is your concern, then address it directly! > > The paragraph begins with below statement. > >"Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be=20 >reasonably small and stable." > >I think that should address the stability problems. It should. This is the text I quoted originally: "Being part of the RI LSA, the per-node administrative tag TLV must be reas= onably small and stable...implementations supporting the per-node administr= ative tags MUST NOT tie advertised tags to changes in the network topology = (both within and outside the OSPF domain) or reachability of routes." Again, the point was that by not allowing the tags to be tied to changes in= topology you are not necessarily doing much to limit instability. True, the topology may become unstable and the tags advertised will mirror = that -- the root cause being the topology instability. But I think there c= an be valid applications that could follow topology changes that won't mirr= or instability (if the network itself is stable). Also, you focused on one= thing (topology instability), leaving other reasons for tag instability wi= thout mention -- this last part was why I suggested that you might want to = focus on the problem you really want to resolve and maybe talk about rate l= imiting. From nobody Mon Oct 19 21:04:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6281F1A019B; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:04:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P21VS5eIpAER; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0111.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 126D51A01A5; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.300.14; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:07 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0300.010; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:07 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: Shraddha Hegde , "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRBcJ1zljGkIgsJkOozrcND9iPyZ5r+ypQgABz0wCAATwboIAAWwKAgAQszYCAAJfqgIAA/HFQgAAFB8A= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151013142127.29680.19611.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.14] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0501MB1381; 5:f0ifoslRTO8W/+mBEzQyUJCXiL5KvfSQeq/VECeciWWY9B9768sgTJW2RqnkqZVJHyP7lJPh6w8AX7ka20vKgvPzHYCg3Mt6A6Lo3QTQsyNLquZWfzX08TVadLyljm4eFhg1fTQoh82mAIU00GlqJQ==; 24:LnGHSevPZ5H8rKJMN8SkRT8z+2yoHrWcNQINGaU6bixg9c0djNzjaIZHhqxURYou0pVBFR1ihK/jCc22OqE9Gy0L+nTUYGz8f2IK4EyI8AY=; 20:OWGow8Fm+9q8xpgUU81eAJibHrjO3DyjFkZ9As+RYLMQbhAP60T7JATVt68lLuw88RQaKaPHLgmmP7QXbA1R3Q== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1381; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(138986009662008)(95692535739014); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(520078)(3002001); SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1381; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1381; x-forefront-prvs: 073515755F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51914003)(199003)(189002)(13464003)(377454003)(122556002)(87936001)(106116001)(10400500002)(92566002)(99286002)(40100003)(106356001)(5007970100001)(93886004)(5001960100002)(46102003)(5002640100001)(5003600100002)(189998001)(105586002)(230783001)(33656002)(54356999)(76176999)(19580405001)(77096005)(101416001)(11100500001)(66066001)(64706001)(2950100001)(2900100001)(76576001)(102836002)(74316001)(1941001)(97736004)(5004730100002)(50986999)(86362001)(5001920100001)(5001770100001)(19580395003)(5008740100001)(81156007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1381; H:BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Oct 2015 04:04:07.4335 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1381 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:14 -0000 Resending the mail as the previous mail content got removed. Alvaro, Thanks for the discussion. I am sorry that we are not able to reach conclusion quickly. Nevertheless,I'll try to clarify based on my understanding of your comments= . If the same tag value is flooded with multiple scopes, then it will be decl= ared conflicting (for all scopes). Yes. . If there are policies that are dependent on those tags then they won't be= applied The conflicting tag won't be considered. Lets say a node had ad= vertised 10 tags. Lets say 10th tag is conflicting and is arriving In different scopes. Only 9 tags will be sent to pol= icy.=20 If you saying just because one tag is conflicting th= e whole set of tags for that node is ignored, then that's not the case. -- including policies that rely on more than one tag being present (includ= ing the one declared conflicting, of course). The point of that question w= as to point out that by invalidating a tag the policies that will be applie= d won't always depend just on the remaining tags.. Again I don't understand your statement. Why can't the policy be= applied on only 9 tags in above example. If the policy fails because of th= e absence of 10th flag then it's an issue with the advertising router being= nod-ABR and having advertised different tags in different scopes. Do you mean to say we should not restrict same tag being advertised in diff= erent scopes? I am not sure If we can change that at this stage of the document since WG = as well as others who reviewed the document so far are OK with that restric= tion being there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------- Again, the point was that by not allowing the tags to be tied to changes in= topology you are not necessarily doing much to limit instability. True, the topology may become unstable and the tags advertised will mirror = that -- the root cause being the topology instability. But I think there c= an be valid applications that could follow topology changes that won't mirr= or instability (if the network itself is stable). Also, you focused on one= thing (topology instability), leaving other reasons for tag instability wi= thout mention -- this last part was why I suggested that you might want to = focus on the problem you really want to resolve and maybe talk about rate l= imiting. Personally, I do not think we need to talk about rate limiting o= f node-admin tags since we already have rate limiting for the LSA originati= on. Would like to hear others opinion on this. Rgds Shraddha -----Original Message----- From: Shraddha Hegde [mailto:shraddha@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:27 AM To: Alvaro Retana (aretana) ; The IESG Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) ; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@= ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf= -node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org Subject: RE: Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Alvaro, I'll try to clarify based on my understanding of your comments. If the same tag value is flooded with multiple scopes, then it will be decl= ared conflicting (for all scopes). Yes. From nobody Mon Oct 19 21:36:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA021B2B90; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:36:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GyGIaGZJTlNN; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0725.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::725]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A52E51B2B7F; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.107.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.300.14; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:35:46 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.107.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0300.010; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:35:46 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-two-part-metric : Max metric handling Thread-Index: AdEAHKg/Cne5geJ/SzGq6c/Ed/OpoABj6wCAAPC0XHAAwCCHAABwceugAAopSgAAJPMn0A== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:35:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.14] 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Hegde To: OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AdELvmcAFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhA== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 05:20:43 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=shraddha@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.13] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR0501MB1386; 5:oRYTQAkZ6ZviDZM1q842dVtzAC53G0IhFOvo+QgD+QFdWS5BUk9mtzoJjdU2OZxLZI2SvShuFnGV0rmSGSywuiqvMy795+riwv3QfBF+3f8XB+jN51biWK6LLqTzmEisBypQ1CaXXIzjHUf01JK2wQ==; 24:H1TGKAgmu8r/p4VpU7wQAG1TkX/WS7B3DBaGeoKKdeG22SoqBgKP7ykwmUOlnK0JTxL7+sfNUdh7fap2YYRqtt2WFH2VkALLDZ17VFDcXrs=; 20:LQY7Xt6b3YtLcmdXy6s6GwpxxFq8azRwZ378v1AQQTWRn/HIaXTBtQBa0sKA+mRTBOPR8Kg/4+XZ82+YFL6zoQ== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CY1PR0501MB1386; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(108003899814671); 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hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY1PR0501MB1385753D145646F8A8542954D5380CY1PR0501MB1385_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Oct 2015 05:20:43.9868 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1386 Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 05:20:49 -0000 --_000_CY1PR0501MB1385753D145646F8A8542954D5380CY1PR0501MB1385_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or copying TLV= s from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. The draft lists t= he problems that the draft is trying to solve. I have reproduced that list= of problems below, with each problem followed by what I believe to be a be= tter and simpler solution. 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the link becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP routed topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, remote nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available for MPLS TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link. To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the TE Lin= k LSA to say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link instead of mov= ing the TLVs around into different LSAs. 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not used or required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE Opaque LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be passed to MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and other applications. OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for its own u= se including the TE LSAs. As far as the TE database goes, it contains data= from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) today so the reasoning d= escribed here doesn't make sense. 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned across multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link Opaque LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to lookup multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single link, bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. There will be nodes in the network which will run older software which send= these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking into the TE LSAs fo= r TE related information doesn't get solved with this draft. Rather it mak= es it more complicated. With this draft, the multiple LSA lookup will only = increase. An implementation will first have to find if Extended link LSA c= ontains the required info, if not it will need to look up the info in TE.L= SA. Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue and I a= m sure there will be implementations that will handle this gracefully so t= hat it doesn't cause delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to come up with protoc= ol extensions to solve implementation issues. Rgds Shraddha --_000_CY1PR0501MB1385753D145646F8A8542954D5380CY1PR0501MB1385_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,
 
 
draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or copyin= g TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. The draft li= sts the problems that the draft is trying to solve.  I have reproduced= that list of problems below, with each problem followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution.
 
=    1.  Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, t= he link
=        becomes a part of the TE topology, whi= ch may not match IP routed
=        topology.  By making the link par= t of the TE topology, remote
=        nodes may mistakenly believe that the = link is available for MPLS
=        TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is no= t enabled on the link.
 
To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the T= E Link LSA to say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP i= s enabled on the link instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs= .
 
=    2.  The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are no= t used or
=        required by MPLS TE or GMPLS.  Th= ere is no mechanism in TE Opaque
=        LSA to indicate which of the link attr= ibutes should be passed to
=        MPLS TE application and which should b= e used by OSPFv2 and other
=        applications.
=  
OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for its = own use including the TE LSAs.  As far = as the TE database goes, it contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LS= As (Network LSA) today so the reasoning described here doesn’t make sense.
 
=    3.  Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partition= ed across
=        multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and = the Extended Link Opaque
=        LSA.  This partitioning will requ= ire implementations to lookup
=        multiple LSAs to extract link attribut= es for a single link,
=        bringing needless complexity to the OS= PFv2 implementations.
=  
There will be nodes in the network which will run older software which= send these attributes via TE LSAs so the pr= oblem of looking into the TE LSAs for TE related information doesn’t get solved with this draft.  Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft= , the multiple LSA lookup will only increase. = An implementation will first have to find if Extended link LSA cont= ains the required info, if not it will need to look up the i= nfo in TE.LSA.
 
Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue an= d I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this  grace= fully so that it doesn’t cause
delays in critical paths. It doesn’t seem reasonable to come up = with protocol extensions to solve implementation issues.
 
 
Rgds
Shraddha
 
 
 
 
 
 --_000_CY1PR0501MB1385753D145646F8A8542954D5380CY1PR0501MB1385_-- From nobody Wed Oct 21 01:53:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9016B1A0121 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:53:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y92s5Snr8K3F for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bgl-iport-4.cisco.com (bgl-iport-4.cisco.com [72.163.197.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACF191A012D for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:53:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4315; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445417602; x=1446627202; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cRKriDfGIao8iYWJUvPB0nStRGp6UpPdVyohxmseXUU=; b=b6eH5Ep4yWJTbRcUZZvI3K11M/weA7Hm678vCpX4B5D0N5HNi6OAydNQ QfkHCm5nUwuIpnnGldkCq8tv+voRfBuOC30uQr08uBvbhET3OC3cD64IW 15mGqNWZhyArjkRaDM689bNjEzlupoHABqcWq9VexHI2rcXajVaJBGZ7E Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DPAQANUidW/xjFo0hdhApvvgEBDYFaFwqCQ4M6AoF8FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQtAQEBAwEBAQEvAQUvBwoGCwsYCRYPCQMCAQIBFTAGAQwGAgEBF4gNCA3DEQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGYZ3hH6FFIQuAQSSWoNKhRmIBoIghniTCR8BAUKEBTw0hWcBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,711,1437436800"; d="scan'208";a="25517053" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-3.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2015 08:53:17 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.55] (ams-ppsenak-nitro6.cisco.com [10.60.140.55]) by bgl-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9L8rFEl021249; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:53:16 GMT Message-ID: <5627527B.4050706@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:53:15 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:53:24 -0000 Shraddha, On 10/21/15 07:20 , Shraddha Hegde wrote: > Hi All, > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or copying > TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. The draft > lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I have reproduced > that list of problems below, with each problem followed by what I > believe to be a better and simpler solution. > 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the link > becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP routed > topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, remote > nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available for MPLS > TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link. > To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the TE > Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link instead of > moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. let me disagree. RFC3630 defined TE Opaque LSAs as a "way of describing the traffic engineering topology". What you are proposing is to define a TLV that would do exactly opposite and remove link from traffic engineering topology. That is a bad idea IMHO. We have defined Extended Link LSA to advertise link attributes, which is independent of the traffic engineering. Using Extended Link LSA to advertise link attributes that are NOT related to TE is much cleaner way of doing things. Also we are not moving any of the existing TE/GMPLS/RSVP TLVs anywhere, they will still use the TE Opaque LSA. > 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not used or > required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE Opaque > LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be passed to > MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and other > applications. > OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for its > own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, it > contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) today so > thereasoning described here doesn’t make sense. Network LSA does not carry any link attributes. The point is that if you start to use TE Opaque LSA for advertising attributes that are not to be used by TE they will be sent to TE as well, which is not what we want. > 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned across > multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link Opaque > LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to lookup > multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single link, > bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. > There will be nodes in the network which will run older software which > send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking into the TE > LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn’t get solved with this draft. We are not proposing to modify what we do with TE Opaque LSA in any way. What we propose is that if some link attributes are used outside of TE, advertise them in Extended Link LSA. There is no issue with older software at all. > Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, the multiple LSA > lookup will only increase.An implementation will first have to find if > Extended link LSA contains the required info, if not it will need to > lookup the info in TE.LSA. no. TE will only look at TE Opaque LSA as before. Extended link LSA will be used internally by OSPF for things like FRR, etc. > Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue and > I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this > gracefully so that it doesn’t cause > delays in critical paths. It doesn’t seem reasonable to come up with > protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. we are not trying to solve implementation problem. We are trying to not break the existing TE functionality by reusing TE Opaque LSA for something it has not been defined for. thanks, Peter > Rgds > Shraddha > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > From nobody Wed Oct 21 04:48:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 242191A92B5 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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A0D5AQAheidW/5xdJa1egmlNgUMGuVqEIQENgVqCZIM6HoErOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqELQECBCMKOiQBCBEDAQIoAwIEMBQJCgQBEhuIFbAokx8BAQEBAQEEAQEBAQEBARyLdYR8gwGBRQWSWoNKAY0enCABHwEBQoQDcoRhgQYBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.17,711,1437436800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="42716785" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2015 11:48:08 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-011.cisco.com (xch-aln-011.cisco.com [173.36.7.21]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9LBm81Y019516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:48:08 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-ALN-011.cisco.com (173.36.7.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 06:47:49 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 06:47:48 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC/ZPFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhA== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:47:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D24CF2B737452aceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:48:12 -0000 --_000_D24CF2B737452aceeciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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786D41B2B71 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sNjHwU87osyW for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bgl-iport-2.cisco.com (bgl-iport-2.cisco.com [72.163.197.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B9141B2B68 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:40:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5778; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445449213; x=1446658813; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lwZCU/VkNwtWzF8i49IFKHzySEIpOALEOjDZKacQfgY=; b=lpLBArfcRcWIYJ+kQsNLX/LGMr6UYioXUdNRyFMmQaDHSHQxKOtt0s8i UCCP3g5Qtda+cbk3wCkajz0onWwky9/BjNiR9QYgI6YjzoPsLt/YQDWAw 46mmpMyWln5zU5JdehEuKQJ5f9WcasjG/Fu4okU+smy1GhDdadiuJXXSM A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,178,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="55934426" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-1.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2015 17:40:10 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.55] (ams-ppsenak-nitro6.cisco.com [10.60.140.55]) by bgl-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9LHe7IR031743; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:40:07 GMT Message-ID: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:40:06 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Bowers , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:40:15 -0000 Hi Chris, On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: > In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by this > proposal outweigh potential gains. there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. > > As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation of > remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that does not > share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is carried in > the TE Opaque LSA. that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current specification. There is no way to do that today, because any router that would receive such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled. > > As it currently reads, I think the proposal in > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break > existing standards-compliant implementations. I don't believe so. > > I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that get > defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs that were > standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or > copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is subject > to interpretation is going to create confusion and interoperability > headaches. What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today. I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything on the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new. thanks, Peter > > Chris > > *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM > *To:* Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List > *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Shraddha, > > *From: *OSPF > on > behalf of Shraddha Hegde > > *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM > *To: *OSPF WG List > > *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi All, > > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or > copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. > The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I > have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem > followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. > > 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the link > > becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP routed > > topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, remote > > nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available for MPLS > > TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link. > > To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the > TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link > instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. > > 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not used or > > required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE > Opaque > > LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be passed to > > MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and other > > applications. > > OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for > its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, it > contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) > today so thereasoning described here doesn’t make sense. > > 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned across > > multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link Opaque > > LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to lookup > > multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single link, > > bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. > > There will be nodes in the network which will run older software > which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking > into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn’t get solved with > this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, > the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An implementation will > first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the required info, > if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. > > The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will use > the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is no > requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward > compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these applications. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue > and I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this > gracefully so that it doesn’t cause > > delays in critical paths. It doesn’t seem reasonable to come up with > protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. > > Rgds > > Shraddha > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > From nobody Wed Oct 21 11:02:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9271B2C0A for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:02:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fL-oDHVCzPcO for ; 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d="scan'208";a="39701210" Received: from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2015 18:02:47 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-013.cisco.com (xch-rcd-013.cisco.com [173.37.102.23]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9LI2lgb004054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:02:47 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-RCD-013.cisco.com (173.37.102.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:02:27 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:02:27 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Alia Atlas , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Segment Routing IANA Early Allocations Thread-Index: AQHRDCqlRLj9KGONM0q16A/is74PPQ== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:02:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <16B239126F3A1C4AA327A2CD67487F26@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] OSPF Segment Routing IANA Early Allocations X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:02:50 -0000 T1NQRiBQcmVmaXgvTGluayBBdHRyaWJ1dGVzIGlzIGNsb3NlIHRvIGJlaW5nIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBh cyBhbiBSRkMgYW5kIHdlDQpoYXZlIHNldmVyYWwgcmVxdWVzdHMgZm9yIGVhcmx5IGFsbG9jYXRp b24uIFRoZSBmaXJzdCBvZiB0aGVzZSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlDQpzZWdtZW50LXJvdXRpbmcgY29kZSBw b2ludHMuIENhbiB3ZSByZXF1ZXN0IHRoZXNlIGZyb20gSUFOQT8gVGhpcyBkcmFmdA0KYWxyZWFk eSBoYXMgYWxsb2NhdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgT1NQRiBSSSBUTFYgY29kZSBwb2ludC4gVGhpcyB3b3Vs ZCBpbmNsdWRlDQp0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGNvZGUgcG9pbnRzLg0KDQoNCjkuMi4gIE9TUEYgRXh0 ZW5kZWQgUHJlZml4IExTQSBUTFYgUmVnaXN0cnkNCg0KICAgRm9sbG93aW5nIHZhbHVlcyBhcmUg YWxsb2NhdGVkOg0KDQogICBvIDIgLSBPU1BGIEV4dGVuZGVkIFByZWZpeCBSYW5nZSBUTFYNCg0K OS4zLiAgT1NQRiBFeHRlbmRlZCBQcmVmaXggTFNBIFN1Yi1UTFYgUmVnaXN0cnkNCg0KICAgRm9s bG93aW5nIHZhbHVlcyBhcmUgYWxsb2NhdGVkOg0KDQogICBvIDEgLSBTSUQvTGFiZWwgU3ViLVRM Vg0KDQogICBvIDIgLSBQcmVmaXggU0lEIFN1Yi1UTFYNCg0KICAgbyAzIC0gU0lEL0xhYmVsIEJp bmRpbmcgU3ViLVRMVg0KDQogICBvIDQgLSBJUHY0IEVSTyBTdWItVExWDQoNCiAgIG8gNSAtIFVu bnVtYmVyZWQgSW50ZXJmYWNlIElEIEVSTyBTdWItVExWDQoNCiAgIG8gNiAtIElQdjQgQmFja3Vw IEVSTyBTdWItVExWDQoNCiAgIG8gNyAtIFVubnVtYmVyZWQgSW50ZXJmYWNlIElEIEJhY2t1cCBF Uk8gU3ViLVRMVg0KDQogICBvIDggLSBFUk8gTWV0cmljIFN1Yi1UTFYNCg0KOS40LiAgT1NQRiBF eHRlbmRlZCBMaW5rIExTQSBTdWItVExWIFJlZ2lzdHJ5DQoNCiAgIEZvbGxvd2luZyBpbml0aWFs IHZhbHVlcyBhcmUgYWxsb2NhdGVkOg0KDQogICBvIDEgLSBTSUQvTGFiZWwgU3ViLVRMVg0KDQog ICBvIDIgLSBBZGotU0lEIFN1Yi1UTFYNCg0KICAgbyAzIC0gTEFOIEFkai1TSUQvTGFiZWwgU3Vi LVRMVg0KDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 21 11:06:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C91AC1A6FAD for ; 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d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=VxAm9rNrGGneExmqsYbcvJqvhxzVuRUiURy/e2Feaz0=; b=xVnHYn3SJlWJDU5jRkEZfXdW/sMLHkCv+b/ZKTjqUD+Lhy70LVMHlT7VvtZ4C+hWS3 cs9zoMO54GQd2+s3LtCg2zSkWlrcMbE7bSvTen+GkcweO/nr8vH69nAqVO3tGDlcQVKf gP5y2tzvpGJKJAbGUhWxHxfIOQdopT48TtIQ8B9PKddQX/vP3a58ca+BzNTdVMRfIDBL +8Xl4hOE8nFzJXr6TrjVxu7msIYmRv0rDQe0QOLgmgd/hB3MxxiixKyLQT/ev911KKP6 SqH7v3jgsxCAKXpkO6Dupt1qzj1nzjB2LV9brLBm57m7S8QzKC/e/Y1DbQAjoJldbMHo Awtg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.97.196 with SMTP id v187mr7013685oib.91.1445450777614; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.121.74 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:06:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:06:17 -0400 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d393823e0270522a13c73 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , Alia Atlas Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Segment Routing IANA Early Allocations X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:06:23 -0000 --001a113d393823e0270522a13c73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Acee, I would certainly approve an early allocation request for these. Be aware that new registries created by a draft aren't subject to early allocation. Instead, the new registries are maintained by the associated draft(s). Please send an email identifying the draft with the IANA early allocation requests to IANA and cc me, and then I'll send in my approval. Regards, Alia On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > OSPF Prefix/Link Attributes is close to being published as an RFC and we > have several requests for early allocation. The first of these is for the > segment-routing code points. Can we request these from IANA? This draft > already has allocation of the OSPF RI TLV code point. This would include > the following code points. > > > 9.2. OSPF Extended Prefix LSA TLV Registry > > Following values are allocated: > > o 2 - OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV > > 9.3. OSPF Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV Registry > > Following values are allocated: > > o 1 - SID/Label Sub-TLV > > o 2 - Prefix SID Sub-TLV > > o 3 - SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV > > o 4 - IPv4 ERO Sub-TLV > > o 5 - Unnumbered Interface ID ERO Sub-TLV > > o 6 - IPv4 Backup ERO Sub-TLV > > o 7 - Unnumbered Interface ID Backup ERO Sub-TLV > > o 8 - ERO Metric Sub-TLV > > 9.4. OSPF Extended Link LSA Sub-TLV Registry > > Following initial values are allocated: > > o 1 - SID/Label Sub-TLV > > o 2 - Adj-SID Sub-TLV > > o 3 - LAN Adj-SID/Label Sub-TLV > > > Thanks, > Acee > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > --001a113d393823e0270522a13c73 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Acee,

I would certainly approve an earl= y allocation request for these.
Be aware that new registries crea= ted by a draft aren't subject to
early allocation.=C2=A0 Inst= ead, the new registries are maintained by the
associated draft(s)= .

Please send an email identifying the draft with = the IANA early
allocation requests to IANA and cc me, and then I&= #39;ll send in my
approval.

Regards,
Alia

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com= > wrote:
OSPF Prefix/Link Attri= butes is close to being published as an RFC and we
have several requests for early allocation. The first of these is for the segment-routing code points. Can we request these from IANA? This draft
already has allocation of the OSPF RI TLV code point. This would include the following code points.


9.2.=C2=A0 OSPF Extended Prefix LSA TLV Registry

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Following values are allocated:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 2 - OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV

9.3.=C2=A0 OSPF Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV Registry

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Following values are allocated:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 1 - SID/Label Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 2 - Prefix SID Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 3 - SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 4 - IPv4 ERO Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 5 - Unnumbered Interface ID ERO Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 6 - IPv4 Backup ERO Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 7 - Unnumbered Interface ID Backup ERO Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 8 - ERO Metric Sub-TLV

9.4.=C2=A0 OSPF Extended Link LSA Sub-TLV Registry

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Following initial values are allocated:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 1 - SID/Label Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 2 - Adj-SID Sub-TLV

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o 3 - LAN Adj-SID/Label Sub-TLV


Thanks,
Acee


_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

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2015 19:44:50 +0000 Received: from BLUPR05MB292.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.23.27]) by BLUPR05MB292.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.23.27]) with mapi id 15.01.0300.010; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:44:50 +0000 From: Chris Bowers To: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC/ZPFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhJ519m0AgABAsgCAAA+BEA== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:44:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cbowers@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR0501MB1385; 5:wKXysposOAaEjKfJLkpT4aIOHhyR9GbFXIz5ET9iQdllR7XonSHkt987YaVsOr1LYI0y6LF3rTYo1ZVXsRPkYpKfpfTbZlk3qkCyGQeOcRnfvP95FHy1uIJ0+ePI/5GLfLm8kL6Au/tTYnltbgLfOQ==; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Oct 2015 19:44:50.0546 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1385 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:45:13 -0000 Peter, RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it defines. = The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some restriction, but the Appli= cability section of RFC3630 explicitly addresses this potential interpretat= ion by saying that a more accurate designation is "extended link attributes= ". 1.1. Applicability Many of the extensions specified in this document are in response to the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as "traffic engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated with MPLS Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) designation is "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add more attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. ------- Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along with "TE-ap= plication" does not appear to have a precise definition in draft-ppsenak-os= pf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it seems reasonable to say t= hat a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. = I don't think this is the meaning you intend, so to avoid confusion, I wil= l use the term "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised in= the TE Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630.=20 So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means in your do= cument? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is enabled, but it is actua= lly not clear to me if just having LDP-enabled on a link would qualify as b= eing "TE-enabled" or not.=20 Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) = ; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Hi Chris, On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: > In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by this=20 > proposal outweigh potential gains. there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. > > As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation=20 > of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that does=20 > not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is=20 > carried in the TE Opaque LSA. that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there is n= o problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to flood= the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current specificati= on. There is no way to do that today, because any router that would receive= such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled. > > As it currently reads, I think the proposal in > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break=20 > existing standards-compliant implementations. I don't believe so. > > I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that=20 > get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs that were > standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or=20 > copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is=20 > subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and=20 > interoperability headaches. What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making the = link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today. I d= o not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything on the= TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new. thanks, Peter > > Chris > > *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem=20 > (acee) > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM > *To:* Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List=20 > > *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding=20 > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Shraddha, > > *From: *OSPF > on=20 > behalf of Shraddha Hegde > > *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM > *To: *OSPF WG List > > *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi All, > > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or > copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. > The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I > have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem > followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. > > 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the=20 > link > > becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP=20 > routed > > topology. By making the link part of the TE topology,=20 > remote > > nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available=20 > for MPLS > > TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link. > > To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the > TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link > instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. > > 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not=20 > used or > > required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE > Opaque > > LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be=20 > passed to > > MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and=20 > other > > applications. > > OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for > its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, it > contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) > today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. > > 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned=20 > across > > multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link=20 > Opaque > > LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to=20 > lookup > > multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single=20 > link, > > bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. > > There will be nodes in the network which will run older software > which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking > into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get solved with > this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, > the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An implementation will > first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the required info, > if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. > > The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will use=20 > the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is=20 > no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward=20 > compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these applications= . > > Thanks, > > Acee > > Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue > and I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this > gracefully so that it doesn't cause > > delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to come up with > protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. > > Rgds > > Shraddha > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > From nobody Wed Oct 21 13:13:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10BBB1B2D99 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:13:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Chris Bowers , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC/ZPFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhJ519m0AgACUgwCAACLaAP//xS+A Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:13:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:13:44 -0000 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54OA2MxhS6MA for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bgl-iport-4.cisco.com (bgl-iport-4.cisco.com [72.163.197.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41B6C1B2E6D for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8637; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445459038; x=1446668638; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=miLrQBW1mnANC68iAAZDOmjg9MITRITRQ9FrxFhiTFs=; b=W56JELjDYRzCFN8Io01CrZIpjgFYYByQjQJ3fbFTsLvGteCpOkbhtsbU Y6anGL73ZAbNI57ee4qBz9xRXEBzVAhrObcXc/olA5+/gMKUGRPheiMfR GJXa/31aB6ULom/qF8GA/qgFOMhA6nMG4FZ/TluizrWhNkCt4dGdq1oDq A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,178,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="25528263" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-4.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2015 20:23:54 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.55] (ams-ppsenak-nitro6.cisco.com [10.60.140.55]) by bgl-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9LKNqF3030806; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:23:52 GMT Message-ID: <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:23:51 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Bowers , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:24:02 -0000 Hi Chris, On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote: > Peter, > > RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it defines. The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some restriction, but the Applicability section of RFC3630 explicitly addresses this potential interpretation by saying that a more accurate designation is "extended link attributes". > > 1.1. Applicability > > Many of the extensions specified in this document are in response to > the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as "traffic > engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated with MPLS > Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) designation is > "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add more > attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. RFC3630 says: The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic engineering topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints) and distributing this information within a given OSPF area. This topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topology, above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque LSA, it is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That restricts the usage of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part of the TE topology. > > ------- > Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along with "TE-application" does not appear to have a precise definition in draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it seems reasonable to say that a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. I don't think this is the meaning you intend, so to avoid confusion, I will use the term "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630. > > So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means in your document? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is enabled, but it is actually not clear to me if just having LDP-enabled on a link would qualify as being "TE-enabled" or not. TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering topology as described by RFC3630. thanks, Peter > > Thanks, > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM > To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Chris, > > On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: >> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by this >> proposal outweigh potential gains. > > there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. > >> >> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation >> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that does >> not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is >> carried in the TE Opaque LSA. > > that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current specification. There is no way to do that today, because any router that would receive such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled. > >> >> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break >> existing standards-compliant implementations. > > I don't believe so. > >> >> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that >> get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs that were >> standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or >> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is >> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and >> interoperability headaches. > > What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today. I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything on the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Chris >> >> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >> (acee) >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM >> *To:* Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List >> >> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >> >> Hi Shraddha, >> >> *From: *OSPF > on >> behalf of Shraddha Hegde > > >> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM >> *To: *OSPF WG List > >> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >> >> Hi All, >> >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or >> copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. >> The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I >> have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem >> followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. >> >> 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the >> link >> >> becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP >> routed >> >> topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, >> remote >> >> nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available >> for MPLS >> >> TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link. >> >> To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the >> TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link >> instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. >> >> 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not >> used or >> >> required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE >> Opaque >> >> LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be >> passed to >> >> MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and >> other >> >> applications. >> >> OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for >> its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, it >> contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) >> today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. >> >> 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned >> across >> >> multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link >> Opaque >> >> LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to >> lookup >> >> multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single >> link, >> >> bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. >> >> There will be nodes in the network which will run older software >> which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking >> into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get solved with >> this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, >> the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An implementation will >> first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the required info, >> if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. >> >> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will use >> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is >> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward >> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these applications. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> >> Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue >> and I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this >> gracefully so that it doesn't cause >> >> delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to come up with >> protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. >> >> Rgds >> >> Shraddha >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSPF mailing list >> OSPF@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >> > > . > From nobody Wed Oct 21 14:52:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA5B1B31E2 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:52:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qh9R2zx_TSKK for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:52:34 -0000 SGkgVGlnZXIsIFVtYSwgDQoNCkkgYWdyZWUgLSBJIGp1c3QgZG9u4oCZdCB3YW50IHRoaXMgdG8g ZXZvbHZlIGludG8gYSBzdGFuZGFyZCB3YXkgdG8NCmNpcmN1bXZlbnQgc3RhbmRhcmRpemF0aW9u IG9mIHZhcmlvdXMgcm91dGVyIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMgO14pLiBFdmVuIGlmIHRoZXJlDQppcyBubyB3 YXkgdG8gcHJldmVudCBhIHZlbmRvciBmb3IgdXNpbmcgdGhlIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBmb3IgdGhpcyBw dXJwb3NlLCB3ZQ0KZG9u4oCZdCB3YW50IHRvIGVuZG9yc2UgdGhpcyBieSBjbGFpbWluZyBpdCBh cyBhIHVzZSBjYXNlLg0KDQpOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGxvY2FsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHVzZSBjYXNl IHRpZXMgbmljZWx5IHRvIHRoZSB0cmFuc3BvcnQNCmluc3RhbmNlIGRyYWZ0IA0KKGh0dHBzOi8v dG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaWQvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLXRyYW5zcG9ydC1pbnN0YW5jZS0xMS50 eHQpLg0KU3BlY2lmaWNhbGx5LCB3aXRoIHRoZSByZW1vdGUtbmVpZ2hib3IgY2FwYWJpbGl0eSwg b25lIGNhbiB1c2UgYW4gaW5zdGFuY2UNCm9ubHkgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHRoZSBub2RlcyBydW5uaW5n IHRoZSBsb2NhbCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgcmVxdWlyaW5nDQpleGNoYW5nZSBvZiBmbG9vZGVk IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiBJbiBjb25qdW5jdGlvbiB3aXRoIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBpbnN0YW5jZSwNCkni gJlkIGFjdHVhbGx5IGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgYSBzaW1pbGFyIGVuY29kaW5nLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpB Y2VlIA0KDQpPbiAxMC8yMC8xNSwgOToxNiBQTSwgIlh1eGlhb2h1IiA8eHV4aWFvaHVAaHVhd2Vp LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj5IaSBBY2VlLA0KPg0KPkkgKGFzIGEgY28tYXV0aG9yKSBmZWVsIHRo aXMgZHJhZnQgZGVzY3JpYmVzIGEgdXNlZnVsIGFwcHJvYWNoIGZvciBsb2NhbA0KPmFwcGxpY2F0 aW9ucyB0byBmbG9vZCBub24tc3RhbmRhcmQgcGFyYW1ldGVycyBvcGFxdWVseSBhbmQgdGhlcmVm b3JlIHRoZQ0KPk9TUEYgV0cgc2hvdWxkIHdvcmsgb24gaXQuDQo+DQo+QmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0K PlhpYW9odSAoVGlnZXIpDQo+DQo+PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPj4gRnJv bTogT1NQRiBbbWFpbHRvOm9zcGYtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEFjZWUg TGluZGVtDQo+PihhY2VlKQ0KPj4gU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgT2N0b2JlciAyMCwgMjAxNSA0OjI5 IEFNDQo+PiBUbzogT1NQRiBXRyBMaXN0DQo+PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbT1NQRl0gT1NQRiBPcGVyYXRv ci1EZWZpbmVkIFRMVnMNCj4+IA0KPj4oaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaWQvZHJhZnQtY2h1 bmR1cmktb3NwZi1vcGVyYXRvci1kZWZpbmVkLXRsdnMtMDEudHh0DQo+PikNCj4+IA0KPj4gVGhp cyBkcmFmdCBoYXMgYmVlbiBwcmVzZW50ZWQgYXQgdHdvIElFVEZzIGFuZCB3aGlsZSBJIGRvbuKA mXQgYWdyZWUgd2l0aA0KPj5zb21lIG9mDQo+PiB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFzIHRo ZXNlIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyByZWZlcmVuY2Ugc2hvdWxkLCBpZiBmYWN0LA0KPj5iZQ0KPj4gc3Rh bmRhcmRpemVkLCBJIGNhbiBzZWUgdGhhdCB0aGUgdXNlIGNhc2UgZm9yIGxvY2FsIGFwcGxpY2F0 aW9ucyBjb3VsZA0KPj5iZQ0KPj4gY29tcGVsbGluZy4gVGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgdXNlIHdoZXJlIE9T UEYgcHJvdmlkZXMgYW4gQVBJIGZvciBsb2NhbA0KPj5hcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgdG8NCj4+IGFkdmVy dGlzZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbi1zcGVjaWZpYyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aHJvdWdob3V0IHRoZSByb3V0 aW5nDQo+PmRvbWFpbiBhbmQNCj4+IHJlY2VpdmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgcGFyYW1ldGVycyBmcm9tIG90 aGVyIHJvdXRlcnMgcnVubmluZyB0aGF0DQo+PmFwcGxpY2F0aW9uLiBTaW5jZQ0KPj4gdGhpcyBp cyB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGxvY2FsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBnZW5lcmljYWxseSwgb25lIGNvdWxkIHNl ZSB0aGUNCj4+cmVhc29uIHRvIGFsbG93DQo+PiBub24tc3RhbmRhcmQgcGFyYW1ldGVycyB0byBi ZSBmbG9vZGVkIG9wYXF1ZWx5IChpLmUuLCBPU1BGIGlzIHVzZWQNCj4+c29sZWx5IGFzIGENCj4+ IGZsb29kaW5nIG1lY2hhbmlzbSkuDQo+PiANCj4+IFBsZWFzZSB0YWtlIGEgbG9vayBhdCB0aGUg ZHJhZnQgYW5kIGluZGljYXRlIHdoZXRoZXIgb3Igbm90IHlvdSBmZWVsDQo+PnRoZSBPU1BGIFdH DQo+PiBzaG91bGQgd29yayBvbiBzdWNoIGEgc29sdXRpb24uIElmIHRoZXJlIGlzIGVub3VnaCBp bnRlcmVzdCwgd2Ugd2lsbA0KPj5hZG9wdCBpdCBhcyBhDQo+PiBXRyBkb2N1bWVudC4NCj4+IA0K Pj4gVGhhbmtzLA0KPj4gQWNlZQ0KPj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiBPU1BGIG1haWxpbmcg bGlzdA0KPj4gT1NQRkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9vc3BmDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Oct 22 08:01:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D6D1A6FA8 for ; 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Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:00:51 +0000 From: Chris Bowers To: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC/ZPFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhJ519m0AgABAsgCAAA+BEIAAHj+AgAEl3ZA= Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:00:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cbowers@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR0501MB1388; 5:2vgzZUnrPzGAWtBShUel9k6TKOyjAVzUpAbgz9iwQim/N5ZnKr1vVeoElmKuqqNqNKlAPKoT/0e0aS3oSHy+dBDdmrn9+K9oFs4Yh8ObZepHhH5v812txSdRwySEiO8wXtlkdhkqM+MoAL/FGGH3Tg==; 24:zWveBZZmjmXcdncc0uRENPcbMc7H6PwV/JD1hCVypKOSRdJqIzsvvDK4PGgvSRXV/9yU8WbMcLWSffeY/t/CMGn+2wJx7seBSPHwNNCWXfM=; 20:KWmhr+mtnKyEI4YkXhcHLC03v4BkxwDsVta94WInWXKfsyCsb2k7NroG5pfACWZ2DR7fv93+/P2/DOXqM7LLwg== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CY1PR0501MB1388; 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SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR0501MB1388; H:BLUPR05MB292.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Oct 2015 15:00:50.4755 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1388 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:01:21 -0000 Peter, I would suggest making the text of the draft more explicit about the condit= ions under which a given link and set of attributes should be included in t= he TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA. RFC3630 is subject to in= terpretation on its own, and since it was written before the existence of t= he Extended Link Opaque LSA, it is not self-evident how to interpret it wit= h respect to using this new LSA. Clarifying the proposed rules for use of= the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA without relying on inter= pretations of 3630 will be helpful. It will help the WG evaluate the propo= sal overall and determine what, if any, backwards compatibility issues this= proposal may cause with existing implementations. It may also help future= implementers avoid interoperability and backwards compatibility issues. As a concrete example, I think it would be useful to explicitly address the= case of how to advertise a link that only supports LDP in the text of the = draft. Below is an example of a format that would clarify this. From t= he response to my question below regarding LDP, I assume that a link that o= nly supports LDP signaling and not RSVP-signaling would not be advertised i= n the TE Opaque LSA. However, I am honestly not positive that this is what= is intended. Format of proposed clarifying text: ------------------ A link MUST NOT be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following cond= itions: 1) The link does not support RSVP-TE signaling. 2) Another condition... A link MAY be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following condition= s: 1) Another condition ... A link MUST NOT be advertised in the Extended Link Opaque LSA under the fol= lowing conditions: 1) Some other condition .... Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:24 PM To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) = ; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Hi Chris, On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote: > Peter, > > RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it defines.= The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some restriction, but the App= licability section of RFC3630 explicitly addresses this potential interpret= ation by saying that a more accurate designation is "extended link attribut= es". > > 1.1. Applicability > > Many of the extensions specified in this document are in response to > the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as "traffic > engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated with MPLS > Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) designation is > "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add more > attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. RFC3630 says: The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic engineering topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints) and distributing this information within a given OSPF area. This topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topology, above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque LSA, it= is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That restricts the usage = of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part of the TE topology. > > ------- > Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along with "TE-= application" does not appear to have a precise definition in draft-ppsenak-= ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it seems reasonable to say= that a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA= . I don't think this is the meaning you intend, so to avoid confusion, I w= ill use the term "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised = in the TE Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630. > > So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means in your = document? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is enabled, but it is act= ually not clear to me if just having LDP-enabled on a link would qualify as= being "TE-enabled" or not. TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering topology as=20 described by RFC3630. thanks, Peter > > Thanks, > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM > To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Chris, > > On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: >> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by this >> proposal outweigh potential gains. > > there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. > >> >> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation >> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that does >> not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is >> carried in the TE Opaque LSA. > > that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there is= no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to flo= od the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current specifica= tion. There is no way to do that today, because any router that would recei= ve such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled. > >> >> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break >> existing standards-compliant implementations. > > I don't believe so. > >> >> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that >> get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs that were >> standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or >> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is >> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and >> interoperability headaches. > > What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making th= e link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today. I= do not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything on t= he TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Chris >> >> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >> (acee) >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM >> *To:* Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List >> >> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >> >> Hi Shraddha, >> >> *From: *OSPF > on >> behalf of Shraddha Hegde > > >> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM >> *To: *OSPF WG List > >> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >> >> Hi All, >> >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or >> copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA= . >> The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I >> have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem >> followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. >> >> 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the >> link >> >> becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP >> routed >> >> topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, >> remote >> >> nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available >> for MPLS >> >> TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link= . >> >> To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in th= e >> TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link >> instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. >> >> 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not >> used or >> >> required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE >> Opaque >> >> LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be >> passed to >> >> MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and >> other >> >> applications. >> >> OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for >> its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, i= t >> contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) >> today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. >> >> 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned >> across >> >> multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link >> Opaque >> >> LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to >> lookup >> >> multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single >> link, >> >> bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. >> >> There will be nodes in the network which will run older software >> which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking >> into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get solved with >> this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, >> the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An implementation will >> first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the required info, >> if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. >> >> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will use >> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is >> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward >> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these application= s. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> >> Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue >> and I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this >> gracefully so that it doesn't cause >> >> delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to come up wit= h >> protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. >> >> Rgds >> >> Shraddha >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSPF mailing list >> OSPF@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >> > > . > From nobody Thu Oct 22 10:00:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4781B399C for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:00:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oSHMz-b9GWSP for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com (mail-oi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BE9E1B398A for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oiad129 with SMTP id d129so51211071oia.0 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:00:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=a4c7QdK6yoJMNc+OTuSPgFpbA+xY7Urw11YY46JbYIA=; b=umeuKtPXyEYq+CDxnawf9gjMBSUChcHONDztModXRNfulIyZvUlLRKOYvzkBrpsz0H F/RMtJV92cc9msxVUIGZPcAET/eSfEhBdbk7YSbg6Wzt7wbvbvtaFSLarXJ7TPA0qsYA bnctEmBXtvqssXlHgG4bnypeHR+7Vysn+axteZKj6jheSSe4bIAL922Mz7TM43HmrRSo 2+32GcyvpdqIdIcHfiuma6naQyoQ1O2PEVanQTbtBEvWmcbuqL1FGLHhSBrY4zU7Wjnu I8EE4YiStOLCzKMahDRF2iKrpTOsEk7LzwMtGn+0rOgUIpACpxTCWdpbHbNNtR17BEdL prWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.175.129 with SMTP id y123mr11077863oie.22.1445533231713; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.121.74 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:00:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:00:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Chris Bowers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ce9d8c994a40522b46ea0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:00:38 -0000 --001a113ce9d8c994a40522b46ea0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The LFA and RLFA work both have the ability to use SRLG information, which has only been available in the TE Opaque LSA. That's not been considered a problem. The TE Opaque LSA would be, presumably, required if SPRING is supported which has no implications on whether RSVP-TE is enabled. My question is what does an assumption about being "TE-enabled" mean? What are the benefits of trying to change interpretations that have existed for at least 5+ years? Regards, Alia On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Chris Bowers wrote: > Peter, > > I would suggest making the text of the draft more explicit about the > conditions under which a given link and set of attributes should be > included in the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA. RFC3630 is > subject to interpretation on its own, and since it was written before the > existence of the Extended Link Opaque LSA, it is not self-evident how to > interpret it with respect to using this new LSA. Clarifying the proposed > rules for use of the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA without > relying on interpretations of 3630 will be helpful. It will help the WG > evaluate the proposal overall and determine what, if any, backwards > compatibility issues this proposal may cause with existing > implementations. It may also help future implementers avoid > interoperability and backwards compatibility issues. > > As a concrete example, I think it would be useful to explicitly address > the case of how to advertise a link that only supports LDP in the text of > the draft. Below is an example of a format that would clarify this. > From the response to my question below regarding LDP, I assume that a link > that only supports LDP signaling and not RSVP-signaling would not be > advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. However, I am honestly not positive that > this is what is intended. > > Format of proposed clarifying text: > ------------------ > > A link MUST NOT be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following > conditions: > > 1) The link does not support RSVP-TE signaling. > > 2) Another condition... > > A link MAY be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following > conditions: > > 1) Another condition ... > > A link MUST NOT be advertised in the Extended Link Opaque LSA under the > following conditions: > > 1) Some other condition .... > > Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:24 PM > To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; > Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Chris, > > On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote: > > Peter, > > > > RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it > defines. The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some restriction, but > the Applicability section of RFC3630 explicitly addresses this potential > interpretation by saying that a more accurate designation is "extended link > attributes". > > > > 1.1. Applicability > > > > Many of the extensions specified in this document are in response to > > the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as "traffic > > engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated with MPLS > > Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) designation is > > "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add more > > attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. > > RFC3630 says: > > The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic engineering > topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints) and > distributing this information within a given OSPF area. This > topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topology, > > above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque LSA, > it is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That restricts the > usage of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part of the TE topology. > > > > > ------- > > Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along with > "TE-application" does not appear to have a precise definition in > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it seems > reasonable to say that a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is advertised in > the TE Opaque LSA. I don't think this is the meaning you intend, so to > avoid confusion, I will use the term "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the > link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630. > > > > So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means in your > document? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is enabled, but it is > actually not clear to me if just having LDP-enabled on a link would qualify > as being "TE-enabled" or not. > > TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering topology as > described by RFC3630. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > Thanks, > > Chris > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM > > To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) < > acee@cisco.com>; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List < > ospf@ietf.org> > > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: > >> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by this > >> proposal outweigh potential gains. > > > > there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. > > > >> > >> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation > >> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that does > >> not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is > >> carried in the TE Opaque LSA. > > > > that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there > is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to > flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current > specification. There is no way to do that today, because any router that > would receive such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled. > > > >> > >> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in > >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break > >> existing standards-compliant implementations. > > > > I don't believe so. > > > >> > >> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that > >> get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs that were > >> standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or > >> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is > >> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and > >> interoperability headaches. > > > > What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making > the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today. > I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything on > the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem > >> (acee) > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM > >> *To:* Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List > >> > >> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding > >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > >> > >> Hi Shraddha, > >> > >> *From: *OSPF > on > >> behalf of Shraddha Hegde >> > > >> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM > >> *To: *OSPF WG List > > >> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or > >> copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque > LSA. > >> The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I > >> have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem > >> followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. > >> > >> 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the > >> link > >> > >> becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP > >> routed > >> > >> topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, > >> remote > >> > >> nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available > >> for MPLS > >> > >> TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the > link. > >> > >> To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in > the > >> TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link > >> instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. > >> > >> 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not > >> used or > >> > >> required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE > >> Opaque > >> > >> LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be > >> passed to > >> > >> MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and > >> other > >> > >> applications. > >> > >> OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for > >> its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, > it > >> contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) > >> today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. > >> > >> 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned > >> across > >> > >> multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link > >> Opaque > >> > >> LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to > >> lookup > >> > >> multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single > >> link, > >> > >> bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. > >> > >> There will be nodes in the network which will run older software > >> which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking > >> into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get solved with > >> this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, > >> the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An implementation will > >> first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the required info, > >> if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. > >> > >> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will use > >> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is > >> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward > >> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these > applications. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Acee > >> > >> Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue > >> and I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this > >> gracefully so that it doesn't cause > >> > >> delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to come up > with > >> protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. > >> > >> Rgds > >> > >> Shraddha > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> OSPF mailing list > >> OSPF@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > >> > > > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > --001a113ce9d8c994a40522b46ea0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<no-hat>

The LFA and RLFA work bo= th have the ability to use SRLG information, which
has only been = available in the TE Opaque LSA.=C2=A0 That's not been considered a
problem.

The TE Opaque LSA would be, presuma= bly, required if SPRING is supported
which has no implications on= whether RSVP-TE is enabled.

My question is what d= oes an assumption about being "TE-enabled" mean?
What a= re the benefits of trying to change interpretations that have existed for
at least 5+ years?

Regards,
Ali= a
</no-hat>

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Chris Bowers <cb= owers@juniper.net> wrote:
P= eter,

I would suggest making the text of the draft more explicit about the condit= ions under which a given link and set of attributes should be included in t= he TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA.=C2=A0 RFC3630 is subject = to interpretation on its own, and since it was written before the existence= of the Extended Link Opaque LSA, it is not self-evident how to interpret i= t with respect to using this new LSA.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Clarifying the proposed r= ules for use of the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA without r= elying on interpretations of 3630 will be helpful.=C2=A0 It will help the W= G evaluate the proposal overall and determine what, if any, backwards compa= tibility issues this proposal may cause with existing implementations.=C2= =A0 It may also help future implementers avoid interoperability and backwar= ds compatibility issues.

As a concrete example, I think it would be useful to explicitly address the= case of how to advertise a link that only supports LDP in the text of the = draft.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Below is an example of a format that would clarify this.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From the response to my question below regarding LDP, I assum= e that a link that only supports LDP signaling and not RSVP-signaling would= not be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA.=C2=A0 However, I am honestly not p= ositive that this is what is intended.

Format of proposed clarifying text:
------------------

A link MUST NOT be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following cond= itions:

1) The link does not support RSVP-TE signaling.

2) Another condition...

A link MAY be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following condition= s:

1) Another condition ...

A link MUST NOT be advertised in the Extended Link Opaque LSA under the fol= lowing conditions:

1) Some other condition ....

Thanks,
Chris



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cis= co.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21,= 2015 3:24 PM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper= .net>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee= @cisco.com>; Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>; OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00

Hi Chris,

On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote:
> Peter,
>
> RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it defin= es.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some r= estriction, but the Applicability section of RFC3630 explicitly addresses t= his potential interpretation by saying that a more accurate designation is = "extended link attributes".
>
> 1.1.=C2=A0 Applicability
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Many of the extensions specified in this document a= re in response to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referr= ed to as "traffic
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0engineering extensions", and are also commonly= associated with MPLS
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 A more accurate (albeit = bland) designation is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"extended link attributes", as the propos= al is to simply add more
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attributes to links in OSPF advertisements.

RFC3630 says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic engine= ering
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints)= and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 distributing this information within a given OSPF area.=C2=A0= This
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topolo= gy,

above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque LSA, it= is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That restricts the usage = of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part of the TE topology.

>
> -------
> Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which al= ong with "TE-application" does not appear to have a precise defin= ition in draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Based on RFC= 3630, it seems reasonable to say that a link is "TE-enabled" if = the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA.=C2=A0 I don't think this i= s the meaning you intend, so to avoid confusion, I will use the term "= RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised in the TE Opa= que LSA defined in RFC 3630.
>
> So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-applicati= on" means in your document?=C2=A0 I assume that it should mean that MP= LS is enabled, but it is actually not clear to me if just having LDP-enable= d on a link would qualify as being "TE-enabled" or not.

TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering topology as described by RFC3630.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsena= k@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM
> To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@ju= niper.net>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>; OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00=
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote:
>> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by t= his
>> proposal outweigh potential gains.
>
> there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft.
>
>>
>> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementati= on
>> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that = does
>> not share an SRLG with the failed link.=C2=A0 This SRLG informatio= n is
>> carried in the TE Opaque LSA.
>
> that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there= is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to = flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current specif= ication. There is no way to do that today, because any router that would re= ceive such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled.
>
>>
>> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potenti= al to break
>> existing standards-compliant implementations.
>
> I don't believe so.
>
>>
>> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs=C2= =A0 that
>> get defined in the future.=C2=A0 However, I think that taking TLVs= that were
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 standardized over ten years ago, and selectively movi= ng them or
>> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is >> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and
>> interoperability headaches.
>
> What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making= the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today= . I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything o= n the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-= bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem
>> (acee)
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM
>> *To:* Shraddha Hegde <s= hraddha@juniper.net>; OSPF WG List
>> <ospf@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding
>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00
>>
>> Hi Shraddha,
>>
>> *From: *OSPF <ospf-bou= nces@ietf.org <mailto:ospf-= bounces@ietf.org>> on
>> behalf of Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net
>> <mailto:shraddha@junipe= r.net>>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM
>> *To: *OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.= org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>&g= t;
>> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-= 00
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi All,
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 propo= ses moving and/or
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Ext= ended Link Opaque LSA.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The draft lists the problems that the draft is= trying to solve.=C2=A0 I
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have reproduced that list of problems below, w= ith each problem
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 followed by what I believe to be a better and = simpler solution.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 Whenever the link is ad= vertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the
>> link
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 becomes a part of = the TE topology, which may not match IP
>> routed
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 topology.=C2=A0 By= making the link part of the TE topology,
>> remote
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 nodes may mistaken= ly believe that the link is available
>> for MPLS
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TE or GMPLS, when,= in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To address this issue, we simply need to defin= e a new sub-TLV in the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is e= nabled on the link
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 instead of moving the TLVs around into differe= nt LSAs.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2.=C2=A0 The TE Opaque LSA carri= es link attributes that are not
>> used or
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 required by MPLS T= E or GMPLS.=C2=A0 There is no mechanism in TE
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Opaque
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 LSA to indicate wh= ich of the link attributes should be
>> passed to
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MPLS TE applicatio= n and which should be used by OSPFv2 and
>> other
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 applications.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use = any of the LSAS for
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as th= e TE database goes, it
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE L= SAs (Network LSA)
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 today so thereasoning described here doesn'= ;t make sense.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.=C2=A0 Link attributes used fo= r non-TE purposes is partitioned
>> across
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple LSAs - th= e TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link
>> Opaque
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 LSA.=C2=A0 This pa= rtitioning will require implementations to
>> lookup
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple LSAs to e= xtract link attributes for a single
>> link,
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bringing needless = complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There will be nodes in the network which will = run older software
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the= problem of looking
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doe= sn't get solved with
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this draft.=C2=A0 Rather it makes it more comp= licated. With this draft,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An = implementation will
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 first have to find if Extended link LSA contai= ns the required info,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.L= SA.
>>
>> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will= use
>> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there = is
>> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward
>> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these appli= cations.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an= implementation issue
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and I am sure there will be implementations th= at will handle this
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gracefully so that it doesn't cause
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem = reasonable to come up with
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol extensions to solve implementation is= sues.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rgds
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shraddha
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSPF mailing list
>> OSPF@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>
>
> .
>

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

--001a113ce9d8c994a40522b46ea0-- From nobody Thu Oct 22 10:08:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2480F1A90AE for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s4nTa81nHlqD for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bgl-iport-4.cisco.com (bgl-iport-4.cisco.com [72.163.197.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93AF01A905B for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:08:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=14979; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445533701; x=1446743301; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AfZ7EIbl3SDkyBFJ3lz7Dmo52zsVf+qN9mtu4omnymc=; b=lyoWntrOh2+kD3bFMGd3OYOmkU82YDpKGK9nsi5mqxZjM1P9pTRyPF8k KGxl1ONidb13UPcEcPKzmDO+nFn3soYvb42v6uHD+5Lk+FmsVZRvjbMJL CP1AKuh9TkyX7xLNOCkYmi7qyeosIelwL5ditdxQFrdQIyyuWsLNjDmxW w=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,183,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="25545305" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-1.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Oct 2015 17:08:17 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.55] (ams-ppsenak-nitro6.cisco.com [10.60.140.55]) by bgl-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9MH8EHa006679; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:08:14 GMT Message-ID: <562917FE.6070100@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:08:14 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alia Atlas , Chris Bowers References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:08:24 -0000 Hi Alia, please see inline: On 10/22/15 19:00 , Alia Atlas wrote: > > > The LFA and RLFA work both have the ability to use SRLG information, which > has only been available in the TE Opaque LSA. That's not been considered a > problem. it is a problem if the user does not want to use the link for MPLS traffic engineering. The reason is that any router receiving such TE Opaque LSA would automatically make the link part of the traffic engineering topology. RFC3630 clearly says that traffic engineering topology is described by TE Opaque LSAs and that such topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topology. > > The TE Opaque LSA would be, presumably, required if SPRING is supported > which has no implications on whether RSVP-TE is enabled. SPRING does not use TE Opaque LSA. > > My question is what does an assumption about being "TE-enabled" mean? means that the link is part of the traffic engineering topology. > What are the benefits of trying to change interpretations that have > existed for > at least 5+ years? not sure what interpretation are you referring to, but RFC3630 is clear on what the TE Opaque LSAs are used for. thanks, Peter > > Regards, > Alia > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Chris Bowers > wrote: > > Peter, > > I would suggest making the text of the draft more explicit about the > conditions under which a given link and set of attributes should be > included in the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA. > RFC3630 is subject to interpretation on its own, and since it was > written before the existence of the Extended Link Opaque LSA, it is > not self-evident how to interpret it with respect to using this new > LSA. Clarifying the proposed rules for use of the TE Opaque LSA or > the Extended Link Opaque LSA without relying on interpretations of > 3630 will be helpful. It will help the WG evaluate the proposal > overall and determine what, if any, backwards compatibility issues > this proposal may cause with existing implementations. It may also > help future implementers avoid interoperability and backwards > compatibility issues. > > As a concrete example, I think it would be useful to explicitly > address the case of how to advertise a link that only supports LDP > in the text of the draft. Below is an example of a format that > would clarify this. From the response to my question below > regarding LDP, I assume that a link that only supports LDP signaling > and not RSVP-signaling would not be advertised in the TE Opaque > LSA. However, I am honestly not positive that this is what is intended. > > Format of proposed clarifying text: > ------------------ > > A link MUST NOT be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the > following conditions: > > 1) The link does not support RSVP-TE signaling. > > 2) Another condition... > > A link MAY be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following > conditions: > > 1) Another condition ... > > A link MUST NOT be advertised in the Extended Link Opaque LSA under > the following conditions: > > 1) Some other condition .... > > Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com ] > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:24 PM > To: Chris Bowers >; > Acee Lindem (acee) >; > Shraddha Hegde >; > OSPF WG List > > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Chris, > > On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote: > > Peter, > > > > RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it > defines. The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some > restriction, but the Applicability section of RFC3630 explicitly > addresses this potential interpretation by saying that a more > accurate designation is "extended link attributes". > > > > 1.1. Applicability > > > > Many of the extensions specified in this document are in > response to > > the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as > "traffic > > engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated > with MPLS > > Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) > designation is > > "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add more > > attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. > > RFC3630 says: > > The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic engineering > topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints) and > distributing this information within a given OSPF area. This > topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topology, > > above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque > LSA, it is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That > restricts the usage of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part > of the TE topology. > > > > > ------- > > Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along > with "TE-application" does not appear to have a precise definition > in draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it > seems reasonable to say that a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is > advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. I don't think this is the meaning > you intend, so to avoid confusion, I will use the term > "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised in the TE > Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630. > > > > So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means > in your document? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is > enabled, but it is actually not clear to me if just having > LDP-enabled on a link would qualify as being "TE-enabled" or not. > > TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering topology as > described by RFC3630. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > Thanks, > > Chris > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com > ] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM > > To: Chris Bowers >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; Shraddha Hegde >; OSPF WG List > > > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding > draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: > >> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by > this > >> proposal outweigh potential gains. > > > > there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. > > > >> > >> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation > >> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel > that does > >> not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is > >> carried in the TE Opaque LSA. > > > > that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, > there is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE > Opaque LSA to flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going > against the current specification. There is no way to do that today, > because any router that would receive such TE Opaque LSA must assume > such link is TE enabled. > > > >> > >> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in > >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break > >> existing standards-compliant implementations. > > > > I don't believe so. > > > >> > >> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that > >> get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs > that were > >> standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or > >> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is > >> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and > >> interoperability headaches. > > > > What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without > making the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to > do that today. I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do > not change anything on the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining > something new. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem > >> (acee) > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM > >> *To:* Shraddha Hegde >; OSPF WG List > >> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding > >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > >> > >> Hi Shraddha, > >> > >> *From: *OSPF >> on > >> behalf of Shraddha Hegde > >> >> > >> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM > >> *To: *OSPF WG List > >> > >> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or > >> copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link > Opaque LSA. > >> The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to > solve. I > >> have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem > >> followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. > >> > >> 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the > >> link > >> > >> becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not > match IP > >> routed > >> > >> topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, > >> remote > >> > >> nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available > >> for MPLS > >> > >> TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on > the link. > >> > >> To address this issue, we simply need to define a new > sub-TLV in the > >> TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the > link > >> instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. > >> > >> 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not > >> used or > >> > >> required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no > mechanism in TE > >> Opaque > >> > >> LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be > >> passed to > >> > >> MPLS TE application and which should be used by > OSPFv2 and > >> other > >> > >> applications. > >> > >> OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the > LSAS for > >> its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database > goes, it > >> contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) > >> today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. > >> > >> 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned > >> across > >> > >> multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link > >> Opaque > >> > >> LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to > >> lookup > >> > >> multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single > >> link, > >> > >> bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 > implementations. > >> > >> There will be nodes in the network which will run older > software > >> which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of > looking > >> into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get > solved with > >> this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this > draft, > >> the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An > implementation will > >> first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the > required info, > >> if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. > >> > >> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases > will use > >> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is > >> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward > >> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these > applications. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Acee > >> > >> Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an > implementation issue > >> and I am sure there will be implementations that will > handle this > >> gracefully so that it doesn't cause > >> > >> delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to > come up with > >> protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. > >> > >> Rgds > >> > >> Shraddha > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> OSPF mailing list > >> OSPF@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > >> > > > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > From nobody Thu Oct 22 13:04:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F071B3F44 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ylYpqOHpdtP0 for ; 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d="scan'208";a="200653994" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Oct 2015 20:04:21 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (xch-aln-015.cisco.com [173.36.7.25]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9MK4LVr001898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:04:21 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (173.36.7.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:04:00 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:04:00 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap538ayA Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:04:00 +0000 Message-ID: <1a3c0c41dfef4808aa02c34762bcbff1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [128.107.163.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:04:23 -0000 SSBoYXZlIHR3byBtYWpvciBpc3N1ZXMgdyB0aGUgZHJhZnQgYXMgaXQgY3VycmVudGx5IHN0YW5k czoNCg0KMSlJdCBzZWVtcyB0byBkZXBlbmQgdXBvbiBjbGFpcnZveWFuY2UgZm9yIGludGVyb3Bl cmFiaWxpdHkgc2luY2UgaXQgY2xhaW1zIHRoYXQgbm8gc3RhbmRhcmRpemF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBm b3JtYXQgb2YgdGhlIHZhbHVlcyBhc3NvY2lhdGVkIHcgYW4gb3BlcmF0b3IgZGVmaW5lZCBUTFYg aXMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5LiAgTm90ZSB0aGF0IGhlcmUgSSBhbSBOT1QgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCB3aGF0 IHNwZWNpZmljIGNvZGUgcG9pbnQgaXMgYXNzaWduZWQgdG8gYSBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyIHVzZSBjYXNl IC0gSSBhbSB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0IHRoZSBmb3JtYXQgb2YgdGhlIGRhdGEgc2VudC4NCg0KMilB cyBpdCBvcGVucyB0aGUgZG9vciB0byB1c2UvYWJ1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHByb3RvY29sIHRvIHNlbmQg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24gd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IHVzZWQgYnkgdGhlIHByb3RvY29sIGl0IGRvZXMgbm90 IGluIGFueSB3YXkgYWRkcmVzcyB0aGUgaW1wYWN0IHRoaXMgY291bGQgaGF2ZSBvbiB0aGUgb3Bl cmF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBwcm90b2NvbC4gVGhpcyBpcyBhIG1ham9yIG9taXNzaW9uLg0KDQpBcyBh biBleGFtcGxlLCBJUy1JUyBoYXMgcHJvdmlkZWQgc2ltaWxhciAgZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0eSBpbiBS RkMgNjgyMyAtIGJ1dCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGlzY3Vzc2VzIHJlc3RyaWN0aW9ucyAgcmVzdHJp Y3Rpb25zIG9uIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhpcyBleHRlbnNpb24gLSBub3RhYmxlIGluIFNlY3Rpb24g Ny4NCg0KVW5sZXNzIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGFyZSBwcmVwYXJlZCB0byBhZGRyZXNzIHRoZXNlIGlz c3VlcyBJIGNhbm5vdCBzdXBwb3J0IHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudC4NCg0KICAgTGVzDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogT1NQRiBbbWFpbHRvOm9zcGYtYm91bmNlc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEFjZWUgTGluZGVtDQo+IChhY2VlKQ0KPiBTZW50OiBNb25k YXksIE9jdG9iZXIgMTksIDIwMTUgMToyOSBQTQ0KPiBUbzogT1NQRiBXRyBMaXN0DQo+IFN1Ympl Y3Q6IFtPU1BGXSBPU1BGIE9wZXJhdG9yLURlZmluZWQgVExWcyAoaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaWQvZHJhZnQtDQo+IGNodW5kdXJpLW9zcGYtb3BlcmF0b3ItZGVmaW5lZC10bHZzLTAxLnR4 dCkNCj4gDQo+IFRoaXMgZHJhZnQgaGFzIGJlZW4gcHJlc2VudGVkIGF0IHR3byBJRVRGcyBhbmQg d2hpbGUgSSBkb27igJl0IGFncmVlIHdpdGggc29tZQ0KPiBvZiB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgdXNlIGNh c2VzIGFzIHRoZXNlIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyByZWZlcmVuY2Ugc2hvdWxkLCBpZiBmYWN0LCBiZQ0K PiBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQsIEkgY2FuIHNlZSB0aGF0IHRoZSB1c2UgY2FzZSBmb3IgbG9jYWwgYXBw bGljYXRpb25zIGNvdWxkIGJlDQo+IGNvbXBlbGxpbmcuIFRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIHVzZSB3aGVyZSBP U1BGIHByb3ZpZGVzIGFuIEFQSSBmb3IgbG9jYWwgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zDQo+IHRvIGFkdmVydGlz ZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbi1zcGVjaWZpYyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aHJvdWdob3V0IHRoZSByb3V0aW5n IGRvbWFpbg0KPiBhbmQgcmVjZWl2ZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBwYXJhbWV0ZXJzIGZyb20gb3RoZXIgcm91 dGVycyBydW5uaW5nIHRoYXQNCj4gYXBwbGljYXRpb24uIFNpbmNlIHRoaXMgaXMgdG8gc3VwcG9y dCBsb2NhbCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgZ2VuZXJpY2FsbHksIG9uZSBjb3VsZA0KPiBzZWUgdGhlIHJl YXNvbiB0byBhbGxvdyBub24tc3RhbmRhcmQgcGFyYW1ldGVycyB0byBiZSBmbG9vZGVkIG9wYXF1 ZWx5DQo+IChpLmUuLCBPU1BGIGlzIHVzZWQgc29sZWx5IGFzIGEgZmxvb2RpbmcgbWVjaGFuaXNt KS4NCj4gDQo+IFBsZWFzZSB0YWtlIGEgbG9vayBhdCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGluZGljYXRlIHdo ZXRoZXIgb3Igbm90IHlvdSBmZWVsIHRoZSBPU1BGDQo+IFdHIHNob3VsZCB3b3JrIG9uIHN1Y2gg YSBzb2x1dGlvbi4gSWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgZW5vdWdoIGludGVyZXN0LCB3ZSB3aWxsIGFkb3B0DQo+ IGl0IGFzIGEgV0cgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IEFjZWUNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KPiBPU1BGIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBPU1BGQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vb3NwZg0K From nobody Thu Oct 22 14:24:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F1C1B423E for ; 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Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:23:48 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:23:47 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: WG Last Call Completed - OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator Thread-Index: AQHRDQ/wzncdLCzVkUSoquTPoCjKcQ== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:23:47 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [OSPF] WG Last Call Completed - OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:24:10 -0000 VGhlIFdHIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBoYXMgY29tcGxldGVkIGFuZCB0aGUgY29tbWVudCB3YXMgYWRkcmVz c2VkIGluIHRoZSAtMDINCnZlcnNpb24uIEkgd2lsbCBpbml0aWF0ZSBhbiBJUFIgUG9sbCBhbmQs IHN1YnNlcXVlbnRseSwgcmVxdWVzdA0KcHVibGljYXRpb24uIA0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpBY2VlIA0K DQo= From nobody Thu Oct 22 14:26:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B3E1B424D; 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Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:25:58 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:25:58 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 Thread-Index: AQHRDRA+21pXShW88EalEs4SUOdBbg== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:25:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: [OSPF] IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:26:21 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywNClBsZWFzZSBpbmRpY2F0ZSB3aGV0aGVyIHlvdSBhcmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IHJl bGV2YW50IElQUiBhbmQgaWYgc28sDQp3aGV0aGVyIGl0IGhhcyBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZC4NClRo YW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Oct 22 18:46:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267D11B3089; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MtDVFHLmflOL; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x22f.google.com (mail-yk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30E431B3087; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykaz22 with SMTP id z22so102549609yka.2; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=FN61yx2xlYzomxbrqQ/4pttAf2OFaHHgnhNnMB03rwc=; b=zMSlvBWXsWhqB8bVUG7KtQ6FN0bQ4R7PjejCm+SqN9x8/+UTIH+KiEcdY07ueQ5MOb njJBQ/lJmQ2hGk6N/TH8H48RnAszyWfCbvhnYFN9w7ntcUTvnLomtLN7DR2c7ndtInuV fVRk1DTrg8ORyLHHsX6PS/YHMkhK/lDTuYdlssYPeC2n896dPlrVbP6UF/Bwn51mX9AC a6P05lAnfBKG5YMZ7Wa4Yo1IyNvAEQX1s+VzRLhqFfrkUyvMARYXSkxKGR/RIa36lgaw I2gie20GZMKXDOtt0Wp+CXpZLE1Inj2Lfr+Zm185RD2pLb95ZHYYNoquzy2T1MIgGyK8 W6TA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.226.22 with SMTP id l22mr13653230ywe.313.1445564780464; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.114.4 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.114.4 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:46:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 07:16:19 +0530 Message-ID: From: Manav Bhatia To: Acee Lindem Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114fbd423d4f8b0522bbc7ee Archived-At: Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:46:29 -0000 --001a114fbd423d4f8b0522bbc7ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Nothing from my side. Thx, Manav -- sent from a mobile device On 23-Oct-2015 2:56 am, "Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: > Authors, > Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > whether it has been disclosed. > Thanks, > Acee > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > --001a114fbd423d4f8b0522bbc7ee Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nothing from my side.

Thx, Manav

--
sent from a mobile device

On 23-Oct-2015 2:56 am, "Acee Lindem (acee)= " <acee@cisco.com> wrote:<= br type=3D"attribution">
Authors,
Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so,
whether it has been disclosed.
Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
--001a114fbd423d4f8b0522bbc7ee-- From nobody Fri Oct 23 01:09:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BE01B32FB for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:09:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3O_5FLDz_Rqv for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bgl-iport-4.cisco.com (bgl-iport-4.cisco.com [72.163.197.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F3661B32F9 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:09:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12825; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445587749; x=1446797349; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ItO6TRNZwwer7Tm2Jj8OGgpcbWyzke2gXUpiqewhTls=; b=bhrt3CE/0NWjupTb/0nj3nmlgZQLJNwVKdMhaGlM3aCJFgMYo2eBU6Fw 85PvxU78zFwll9Srpe3LHXiVkmzPdt4nxX4ZTjN9gCxELCFTt0uvgHGcb EjOOnCMA/FNqUVnlpswAsgU36vRbY8kyotTXic+SYF40PLI5WuU5jM80D E=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,185,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="25567008" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-1.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Oct 2015 08:09:05 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.55] (ams-ppsenak-nitro6.cisco.com [10.60.140.55]) by bgl-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9N893vg014154; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:09:03 GMT Message-ID: <5629EB1E.3040102@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:09:02 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Bowers , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Shraddha Hegde , OSPF WG List References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:09:12 -0000 Hi Chris, please see inline: On 10/22/15 17:00 , Chris Bowers wrote: > Peter, > > I would suggest making the text of the draft more explicit about the conditions under which a given link and set of attributes should be included in the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA. RFC3630 is subject to interpretation on its own, and since it was written before the existence of the Extended Link Opaque LSA, it is not self-evident how to interpret it with respect to using this new LSA. Clarifying the proposed rules for use of the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA without relying on interpretations of 3630 will be helpful. It will help the WG evaluate the proposal overall and determine what, if any, backwards compatibility issues this proposal may cause with existing implementations. It may also help future implementers avoid interoperability and backwards compatibility issues. Sure, we can add more text in the draft. What I have a problem with is that you are questioning RFC3630 and claim that it subject to interpretation. I don't think that is the case. RFC3630 defines TE Opaque LSAs as a mechanism to describe TE topology. There is nothing left that is subject to interpretation. If we do not have an agreement on this part, there is no text in the draft that is going to make things clear. > > As a concrete example, I think it would be useful to explicitly address the case of how to advertise a link that only supports LDP in the text of the draft. Below is an example of a format that would clarify this. From the response to my question below regarding LDP, I assume that a link that only supports LDP signaling and not RSVP-signaling would not be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. However, I am honestly not positive that this is what is intended. LDP being enabled on link is orthogonal to link being part of the TE topology. Implementation can choose what makes link part of TE topology, some may have explicit command on a per interface basis, some may do it based on some other feature being enabled on the link. No matter what mechanism they use it is a local decision on the box that makes the link part of TE topology and triggers the advertisement of the TE Opaque LSA for such link. What is important is that as soon as the TE Opaque LSA is flooded all other nodes in the area will assume they can use such link for traffic engineering and use it during the TE cSPF. > > Format of proposed clarifying text: > ------------------ > > A link MUST NOT be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following conditions: > > 1) The link does not support RSVP-TE signaling. one can do traffic engineering without RSVP. RFC3630 does not mandate the usage of RSVP. > > 2) Another condition... > > A link MAY be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following conditions: the only condition is that user decided to make the link part of the traffic engineering topology, regardless of what is the local mechanism on the box to make that happen. > > 1) Another condition ... > > A link MUST NOT be advertised in the Extended Link Opaque LSA under the following conditions: I do not see any reason to specify why a link MUST NOT be advertised in Extended Link Opaque LSA. TE Opaque LSA and Extended Link Opaque LSA are orthogonal to each other. TE Opaque LSA is dedicated for traffic engineering and must not be used for anything else. thanks, Peter > > 1) Some other condition .... > > Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:24 PM > To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List > Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 > > Hi Chris, > > On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote: >> Peter, >> >> RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it defines. The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some restriction, but the Applicability section of RFC3630 explicitly addresses this potential interpretation by saying that a more accurate designation is "extended link attributes". >> >> 1.1. Applicability >> >> Many of the extensions specified in this document are in response to >> the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as "traffic >> engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated with MPLS >> Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) designation is >> "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add more >> attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. > > RFC3630 says: > > The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic engineering > topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints) and > distributing this information within a given OSPF area. This > topology does not necessarily match the regular routed topology, > > above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque LSA, it is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That restricts the usage of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part of the TE topology. > >> >> ------- >> Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along with "TE-application" does not appear to have a precise definition in draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it seems reasonable to say that a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. I don't think this is the meaning you intend, so to avoid confusion, I will use the term "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised in the TE Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630. >> >> So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means in your document? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is enabled, but it is actually not clear to me if just having LDP-enabled on a link would qualify as being "TE-enabled" or not. > > TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering topology as > described by RFC3630. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Thanks, >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM >> To: Chris Bowers ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List >> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: >>> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by this >>> proposal outweigh potential gains. >> >> there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. >> >>> >>> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing implementation >>> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel that does >>> not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information is >>> carried in the TE Opaque LSA. >> >> that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, there is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE Opaque LSA to flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going against the current specification. There is no way to do that today, because any router that would receive such TE Opaque LSA must assume such link is TE enabled. >> >>> >>> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in >>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to break >>> existing standards-compliant implementations. >> >> I don't believe so. >> >>> >>> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs that >>> get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs that were >>> standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them or >>> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is >>> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and >>> interoperability headaches. >> >> What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without making the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to do that today. I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do not change anything on the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining something new. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >>> (acee) >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM >>> *To:* Shraddha Hegde ; OSPF WG List >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding >>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >>> >>> Hi Shraddha, >>> >>> *From: *OSPF > on >>> behalf of Shraddha Hegde >> > >>> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM >>> *To: *OSPF WG List > >>> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving and/or >>> copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link Opaque LSA. >>> The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to solve. I >>> have reproduced that list of problems below, with each problem >>> followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler solution. >>> >>> 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque LSA, the >>> link >>> >>> becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not match IP >>> routed >>> >>> topology. By making the link part of the TE topology, >>> remote >>> >>> nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is available >>> for MPLS >>> >>> TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on the link. >>> >>> To address this issue, we simply need to define a new sub-TLV in the >>> TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the link >>> instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. >>> >>> 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are not >>> used or >>> >>> required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no mechanism in TE >>> Opaque >>> >>> LSA to indicate which of the link attributes should be >>> passed to >>> >>> MPLS TE application and which should be used by OSPFv2 and >>> other >>> >>> applications. >>> >>> OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the LSAS for >>> its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database goes, it >>> contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network LSA) >>> today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. >>> >>> 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is partitioned >>> across >>> >>> multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended Link >>> Opaque >>> >>> LSA. This partitioning will require implementations to >>> lookup >>> >>> multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a single >>> link, >>> >>> bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 implementations. >>> >>> There will be nodes in the network which will run older software >>> which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of looking >>> into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get solved with >>> this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this draft, >>> the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An implementation will >>> first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the required info, >>> if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. >>> >>> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases will use >>> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, there is >>> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward >>> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these applications. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Acee >>> >>> Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an implementation issue >>> and I am sure there will be implementations that will handle this >>> gracefully so that it doesn't cause >>> >>> delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to come up with >>> protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. >>> >>> Rgds >>> >>> Shraddha >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>> >> >> . >> > > . > From nobody Fri Oct 23 01:38:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1F21B3331; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kptUt7y6ZcA7; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 649D71B332F; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 01:38:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3308; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445589492; x=1446799092; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tk/pv8W5vP8hmE/DoW8rHS6p27HEQ9QUtpiX7bigusQ=; b=HvbBaKRtRK9BL3PFf/GZtkruFEmwpCLEfDpYHIdPQFMUK4VKEwj9Ix7T VR9T7rA5jljyI/xU68MQNTIWN14TJmKF0vYCL0FnM9Ww+nA6a1o6EtUjr JjPJofqZxLcXgId0MUH5ymJ5FrvFrMcr5bC+LyClfD3tbTo41iCMVeUQC k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,185,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="612347255" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Oct 2015 08:38:09 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.89] (ams-bclaise-8918.cisco.com [10.60.67.89]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9N8c8BZ011128; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:38:09 GMT To: Shraddha Hegde , "Black, David" , The IESG References: <20151012133425.11612.85728.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <5629F1DC.8010502@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:37:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org" , "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:38:14 -0000 Thanks, Benoit > David/Ben, > > Pls see in-line > > Rgds > shraddha > > -----Original Message----- > From: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com] > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 7:09 PM > To: Benoit Claise ; The IESG > Cc: acee@cisco.com; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; Black, David > Subject: RE: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: (with COMMENT) > > Benoit, > >> I was initially confused by that sentence. > My understanding is that "independent characteristics" applies on a tag-by-tag basis. I might suggest: > > Each tag carried by the administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to > indicate a characteristic of a node that is independent of the > characteristics indicated by other administrative tags. > Thanks for the text. Updating -08 version with above text. > > Thanks, > --David > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] >> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:34 AM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: Black, David; acee@cisco.com; >> draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.ad@ietf.org; >> draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag.shepherd@ietf.org; >> draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin- tag@ietf.org; ospf-chairs@ietf.org; >> ospf@ietf.org >> Subject: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: >> (with COMMENT) >> >> Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag-07: No Objection >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut >> this introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to >> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-node-admin-tag/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> - "Tags carried by the >> administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent >> characteristics of a node." >> >> I was initially confused by that sentence. >> So there are tags carried by a different TLV than the administrative one? >> Actually, no (I checked with one of the authors). >> I would simply write: >> "Administrative tag TLV SHOULD be used to indicate independent >> characteristics of a node." >> >> This would be in line with the definition: >> An administrative Tag is a 32-bit integer value that can be used to >> identify a group of nodes in the OSPF domain. >> >> - Router information LSA [RFC4970] can have link, area or AS >> level flooding scope. Choosing the flooding scope to flood the group >> tags are defined by the policies and is a local matter. >> >> "and is a local matter". Hopefully there is some sort of centralized >> management application that checks consistency. >> From nobody Fri Oct 23 07:31:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688FB1A1AB6; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 07:31:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92izuVHfBNW1; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 07:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FA031A1AB1; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 07:31:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3878; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445610683; x=1446820283; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=q5wf6gK2v0ZYVcP2CGlQ9LZOX+4La0jP40kVs3TROWM=; b=dYI1JbWHtlVF5DwpTXNL50nBDgkr25vaTXciIKzctgbf1g4OzC/D7DvE pvmF9MXORMm6lnVPvMlCaYzIiWn/1Tjwb9x+/vstz/RE3icKRQ84q7pjE znLUEZj+bU846ziPyJCmA5odkXBLPn9JRlhShXemRS8GhWiZMJHxxS1D8 I=; X-Files: signature.asc : 841 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0C4AgAyRCpW/4sNJK1egzZUYA8GugSEIQ6BWSGFfAKBOzgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhDIBAQEDASNWBQsCAQgEARMjBwICMiUCBA4FDogaCA2zEJJfAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBDwUEhneCEIJuhDsBAUwEB4JpMYEUBZJdg04Bgk2BYYhvgViEP5YOAR8BQ4JEgT9yAYUCOoEGAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,186,1444694400"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="40263433" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Oct 2015 14:31:22 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com (xch-rcd-015.cisco.com [173.37.102.25]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9NEVLB3031814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 23 Oct 2015 14:31:21 GMT Received: from xch-aln-020.cisco.com (173.36.7.30) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:31:00 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-020.cisco.com ([173.36.7.30]) by XCH-ALN-020.cisco.com ([173.36.7.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:31:00 -0500 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 Thread-Index: AQHRDRA+21pXShW88EalEs4SUOdBbp55eKqA Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 14:31:00 +0000 Message-ID: <6E26B00A-AACB-4B54-9599-216666066B76@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.115.58] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0F936D28-4C36-4D35-904A-EB94F2B1E852"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 14:31:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0F936D28-4C36-4D35-904A-EB94F2B1E852 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_752C8997-2B79-47D2-A0A9-60313A0A6528" --Apple-Mail=_752C8997-2B79-47D2-A0A9-60313A0A6528 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, Acee, I am not aware of any IPR relevant to this document. In other words, no change since: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ospf/current/msg07172.html = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ospf/current/msg07590.html = Thanks! =E2=80=94 Carlos. > On Oct 22, 2015, at 5:25 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) = wrote: >=20 > Authors, > Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > whether it has been disclosed. > Thanks, > Acee >=20 --Apple-Mail=_752C8997-2B79-47D2-A0A9-60313A0A6528 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi, Acee,

I= am not aware of any IPR relevant to this document.

In other words, no = change since:
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ospf/current/msg07172.htm= l
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ospf/current/msg07590.htm= l

Thanks!

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

On = Oct 22, 2015, at 5:25 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> = wrote:

Authors,
Please indicate whether you are aware = of any relevant IPR and if so,
whether it has been = disclosed.
Thanks,
Acee


= --Apple-Mail=_752C8997-2B79-47D2-A0A9-60313A0A6528-- --Apple-Mail=_0F936D28-4C36-4D35-904A-EB94F2B1E852 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWKkS4AAoJEIXgpQGOZny90SgP/iQS4wgrc9mJ9ejJmJTHgrp9 U8Zz6+Rb7hqqn0CT38YyDGdDMtpZavqV7oBziq+8+c6n/FwZxVaiWsrcOEr00YcM 7q+J1QMosoWKDxfn4d8PhMDdIZzOfmJdNx2+QtIBkpO5bHSduKIQ9ZAKbiGhqmNA XueHSYLqgoarzQmp3D8ZO/sFkRnxdr4ChdRHohZAHeFYxNq8scU+SqcvJfFLASXS /EE3X5wOGgaNF5XnPP2YrEJfNsFP6FgHxSlOHPMxMANYtElenz10uJnTo7jD/Jis 3ecRT/VunrK4lh5VVkSosVPRqxP+T+4XdY7rcJG+3JzwS6X/7XWyBJTpNkxnQtko hb3ITWsUDluY/VAgZ+osm+uwlucMzZsucwvrtcg33eKv7uLOfhr+m31jSUMAhOQb p+3KfWzUX+0r43UmSmRda68U9i6Q03nEORXXM01K2If+PjhCWefA3BIGrkJEV2T9 vaHPeB9Z1ZfVA6e8T17KiPQnyLrgbfvPegr/kG7VzfDkRpB/+KXfU2iSaWab16bi jkHqSa/8slPGhRxPoAsOct6XfJLB/8sSiymTo+QMwi8VmDaQLt5wIxFh0DHLXlnZ gujATBDJqsHaD9uwOvH0FILemoYH6ua3vNDIsviSCCu1YtNpcA9cQEz9WXBraAjs TUmAkT5eNPGOGzyWqNNm =LhSs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0F936D28-4C36-4D35-904A-EB94F2B1E852-- From nobody Fri Oct 23 07:35:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2291A1AB9; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 07:35:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A3nWE2Xm1NaE; 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-0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 Thread-Index: AQHRDZ/yrl16qk6DHkSykKOFZJXWpg== Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 14:34:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6E26B00A-AACB-4B54-9599-216666066B76@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6E26B00A-AACB-4B54-9599-216666066B76@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D24FBD773819Baceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll for "OSPF extensions to advertise S-BFD Target Discriminator" - draft-ietf-ospf-sbfd-discriminator-02 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 14:35:07 -0000 --_000_D24FBD773819Baceeciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQ2FybG9zLA0KDQpXZSBub3cgcG9sbCB0d2ljZSAgLSBvbmNlIGNsb3NlIHRvIFdHIGFkb3B0 aW9uIGFuZCBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBwcmlvciB0byByZXF1ZXN0aW5nIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uLg0KDQpU aGFua3MsDQpBY2VlDQoNCkZyb206ICJDYXJsb3MgUGlnbmF0YXJvIChjcGlnbmF0YSkiIDxjcGln bmF0YUBjaXNjby5jb208bWFpbHRvOmNwaWduYXRhQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4+DQpEYXRlOiBGcmlkYXks IE9jdG9iZXIgMjMsIDIwMTUgYXQgMTA6MzEgQU0NClRvOiBBY2VlIExpbmRlbSA8YWNlZUBjaXNj by5jb208bWFpbHRvOmFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPj4NCkNjOiAiZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLXNiZmQt ZGlzY3JpbWluYXRvckBpZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLXNiZmQtZGlzY3Jp bWluYXRvckBpZXRmLm9yZz4iIDxkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtc2JmZC1kaXNjcmltaW5hdG9yQGll dGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtc2JmZC1kaXNjcmltaW5hdG9yQGlldGYub3Jn 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15.0.1104.5; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:28:04 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:28:04 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Alia Atlas , Chris Bowers Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC/ZPFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhJ519m0AgABAsgCAAA+BEIAAHj+AgAEl3ZCAAId6gIAAAigAgAS8qAA= Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:28:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> <562917FE.6070100@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <562917FE.6070100@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <97B4D686537AC6429740F7E95058FC40@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:28:32 -0000 U3BlYWtpbmcgd2l0aCBubyBoYXRzIG9u4oCmDQoNCkkganVzdCB3YW50IHRvIGFkZCB0aGF0IHdl IGhhdmUgYSBzZXBhcmF0ZSBPU1BGIG1ldHJpYyBhbmQgT1NQRiBURSBNZXRyaWMNCnNvIHRoZSBt ZXJlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHNpbWlsYXIgb2JqZWN0IGluIEdNUExTIGRvZXNu4oCZ dCBpbXBseQ0KdGhhdCBpdCBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IGlzIGFwcGxpY2FibGUgdG8gSVAgYXBwbGlj YXRpb25zIGFzIHdlbGwuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCk9uIDEwLzIyLzE1LCAxOjA4IFBN LCAiUGV0ZXIgUHNlbmFrIChwcHNlbmFrKSIgPHBwc2VuYWtAY2lzY28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0K PkhpIEFsaWEsDQo+DQo+cGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmU6DQo+DQo+T24gMTAvMjIvMTUgMTk6MDAg LCBBbGlhIEF0bGFzIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gPG5vLWhhdD4NCj4+DQo+PiBUaGUgTEZBIGFuZCBSTEZB 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Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on "H-bit Support for OSPFv2" Thread-Index: AQHRD4MsrmrNILle7Um40NLrLAZdNg== Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:13:43 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "H-bit Support for OSPFv2" X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:14:08 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywNClBsZWFzZSBpbmRpY2F0ZSB3aGV0aGVyIHlvdSBhcmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IHJl bGV2YW50IElQUiBhbmQgaWYgc28sDQp3aGV0aGVyIGl0IGhhcyBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZC4NClRo YW5rcywNCkFjZWUgDQoNCg0K From nobody Sun Oct 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usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E4.92.26730.09E0D265; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:17:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:01:55 -0400 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: [OSPF] Regarding draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC/ZPFuY7qCnGR1+q4c+BrPcEhJ519m0AgACDwACAACLZAIAACueAgAE4FQCAACFwgIAAAigAgAT/mAD///iwhg== Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 01:01:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5627CDF6.605@cisco.com> <5627F457.8020701@cisco.com> <562917FE.6070100@cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpnkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonXHcin26YwYprAhaT385jtvj08BKz 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List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 01:02:00 -0000 Hi, No hats I'm familiar with at least 2 implementations which have this issue, this dr= aft solves real problem. Regards, Jeff > On Oct 25, 2015, at 2:28 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Speaking with no hats on=85 >=20 > I just want to add that we have a separate OSPF metric and OSPF TE Metric > so the mere fact that there is a similar object in GMPLS doesn=92t imply > that it automatically is applicable to IP applications as well. >=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 >> On 10/22/15, 1:08 PM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" wrote= : >>=20 >> Hi Alia, >>=20 >> please see inline: >>=20 >>> On 10/22/15 19:00 , Alia Atlas wrote: >>> >>>=20 >>> The LFA and RLFA work both have the ability to use SRLG information, >>> which >>> has only been available in the TE Opaque LSA. That's not been >>> considered a >>> problem. >>=20 >> it is a problem if the user does not want to use the link for MPLS >> traffic engineering. The reason is that any router receiving such TE >> Opaque LSA would automatically make the link part of the traffic >> engineering topology. RFC3630 clearly says that traffic engineering >> topology is described by TE Opaque LSAs and that such topology does not >> necessarily match the regular routed topology. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> The TE Opaque LSA would be, presumably, required if SPRING is supported >>> which has no implications on whether RSVP-TE is enabled. >>=20 >> SPRING does not use TE Opaque LSA. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> My question is what does an assumption about being "TE-enabled" mean? >>=20 >> means that the link is part of the traffic engineering topology. >>=20 >>> What are the benefits of trying to change interpretations that have >>> existed for >>> at least 5+ years? >>=20 >> not sure what interpretation are you referring to, but RFC3630 is clear >> on what the TE Opaque LSAs are used for. >>=20 >> thanks, >> Peter >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Alia >>> >>>=20 >>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Chris Bowers >> > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Peter, >>>=20 >>> I would suggest making the text of the draft more explicit about the >>> conditions under which a given link and set of attributes should be >>> included in the TE Opaque LSA or the Extended Link Opaque LSA. >>> RFC3630 is subject to interpretation on its own, and since it was >>> written before the existence of the Extended Link Opaque LSA, it is >>> not self-evident how to interpret it with respect to using this new >>> LSA. Clarifying the proposed rules for use of the TE Opaque LSA or >>> the Extended Link Opaque LSA without relying on interpretations of >>> 3630 will be helpful. It will help the WG evaluate the proposal >>> overall and determine what, if any, backwards compatibility issues >>> this proposal may cause with existing implementations. It may also >>> help future implementers avoid interoperability and backwards >>> compatibility issues. >>>=20 >>> As a concrete example, I think it would be useful to explicitly >>> address the case of how to advertise a link that only supports LDP >>> in the text of the draft. Below is an example of a format that >>> would clarify this. From the response to my question below >>> regarding LDP, I assume that a link that only supports LDP signaling >>> and not RSVP-signaling would not be advertised in the TE Opaque >>> LSA. However, I am honestly not positive that this is what is >>> intended. >>>=20 >>> Format of proposed clarifying text: >>> ------------------ >>>=20 >>> A link MUST NOT be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the >>> following conditions: >>>=20 >>> 1) The link does not support RSVP-TE signaling. >>>=20 >>> 2) Another condition... >>>=20 >>> A link MAY be advertised in the TE Opaque LSA under the following >>> conditions: >>>=20 >>> 1) Another condition ... >>>=20 >>> A link MUST NOT be advertised in the Extended Link Opaque LSA under >>> the following conditions: >>>=20 >>> 1) Some other condition .... >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Chris >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com >>> ] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:24 PM >>> To: Chris Bowers >; >>> Acee Lindem (acee) >; >>> Shraddha Hegde >; >>> OSPF WG List > >>> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding >>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >>>=20 >>> Hi Chris, >>>=20 >>>> On 10/21/15 21:44 , Chris Bowers wrote: >>>> Peter, >>>>=20 >>>> RFC3630 does not appear to restrict the use of the attributes it >>> defines. The term "TE extensions" may seem to imply some >>> restriction, but the Applicability section of RFC3630 explicitly >>> addresses this potential interpretation by saying that a more >>> accurate designation is "extended link attributes". >>>>=20 >>>> 1.1. Applicability >>>>=20 >>>> Many of the extensions specified in this document are in >>> response to >>>> the requirements stated in [5], and thus are referred to as >>> "traffic >>>> engineering extensions", and are also commonly associated >>> with MPLS >>>> Traffic Engineering. A more accurate (albeit bland) >>> designation is >>>> "extended link attributes", as the proposal is to simply add >>> more >>>> attributes to links in OSPF advertisements. >>>=20 >>> RFC3630 says: >>>=20 >>> The extensions provide a way of describing the traffic >>> engineering >>> topology (including bandwidth and administrative constraints) >>> and >>> distributing this information within a given OSPF area. This >>> topology does not necessarily match the regular routed >>> topology, >>>=20 >>> above clearly indicates that if the link is advertised in TE Opaque >>> LSA, it is part of the TE topology, otherwise it is not. That >>> restricts the usage of the TE Opaque LSA to the links that are part >>> of the TE topology. >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> ------- >>>> Also, the response below uses the term "TE-enabled" which along >>> with "TE-application" does not appear to have a precise definition >>> in draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00. Based on RFC 3630, it >>> seems reasonable to say that a link is "TE-enabled" if the link is >>> advertised in the TE Opaque LSA. I don't think this is the meaning >>> you intend, so to avoid confusion, I will use the term >>> "RFC-3630-TE-enabled" to mean that the link is advertised in the TE >>> Opaque LSA defined in RFC 3630. >>>>=20 >>>> So can you clarify what "TE-enabled" or a "TE-application" means >>> in your document? I assume that it should mean that MPLS is >>> enabled, but it is actually not clear to me if just having >>> LDP-enabled on a link would qualify as being "TE-enabled" or not. >>>=20 >>> TE-enabled means the link is part of the traffic engineering >>> topology as >>> described by RFC3630. >>>=20 >>> thanks, >>> Peter >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chris >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com >>> ] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:40 PM >>>> To: Chris Bowers >> >; Acee Lindem (acee) >> >; Shraddha Hegde >> >; OSPF WG List >> > >>>> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Regarding >>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Chris, >>>>=20 >>>>> On 10/21/15 19:20 , Chris Bowers wrote: >>>>> In my opinion the backwards compatibility problems introduced by >>> this >>>>> proposal outweigh potential gains. >>>>=20 >>>> there is no backwards compatibility problem with the draft. >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> As a concrete example, there is at least one existing >>> implementation >>>>> of remote LFA where policy is used to select a backup tunnel >>> that does >>>>> not share an SRLG with the failed link. This SRLG information >>> is >>>>> carried in the TE Opaque LSA. >>>>=20 >>>> that is fine, you are free to do that if the link is TE enabled, >>> there is no problem. If the link is not TE enabled and you use TE >>> Opaque LSA to flood the SRLG data for such link, you are going >>> against the current specification. There is no way to do that today, >>> because any router that would receive such TE Opaque LSA must assume >>> such link is TE enabled. >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> As it currently reads, I think the proposal in >>>>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse has the potential to >>> break >>>>> existing standards-compliant implementations. >>>>=20 >>>> I don't believe so. >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I might be OK with having the proposal only apply to sub-TLVs >>> that >>>>> get defined in the future. However, I think that taking TLVs >>> that were >>>>> standardized over ten years ago, and selectively moving them >>> or >>>>> copying them to a different LSA based on a set of rules that is >>>>> subject to interpretation is going to create confusion and >>>>> interoperability headaches. >>>>=20 >>>> What we propose is the way to advertise link attributes without >>> making the link part of TE topology. We simply do not have a way to >>> do that today. I do not see any problem in doing so, because we do >>> not change anything on the TE Opaque LSA side, we are defining >>> something new. >>>>=20 >>>> thanks, >>>> Peter >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Chris >>>>>=20 >>>>> *From:*OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org >>> ] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >>>>> (acee) >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 6:48 AM >>>>> *To:* Shraddha Hegde >> >; OSPF WG List >>>>> > >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [OSPF] Regarding >>>>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Shraddha, >>>>>=20 >>>>> *From: *OSPF >> >> >> on >>>>> behalf of Shraddha Hegde >> >>>>> >> >>>>> *Date: *Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 1:20 AM >>>>> *To: *OSPF WG List >>> >> >>>>> *Subject: *[OSPF] Regarding >>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi All, >>>>>=20 >>>>> draft-ppsenak-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-00 proposes moving >>> and/or >>>>> copying TLVs from the TE Opaque LSA to the Extended Link >>> Opaque LSA. >>>>> The draft lists the problems that the draft is trying to >>> solve. I >>>>> have reproduced that list of problems below, with each >>> problem >>>>> followed by what I believe to be a better and simpler >>> solution. >>>>>=20 >>>>> 1. Whenever the link is advertised in a TE Opaque >>> LSA, the >>>>> link >>>>>=20 >>>>> becomes a part of the TE topology, which may not >>> match IP >>>>> routed >>>>>=20 >>>>> topology. By making the link part of the TE >>> topology, >>>>> remote >>>>>=20 >>>>> nodes may mistakenly believe that the link is >>> available >>>>> for MPLS >>>>>=20 >>>>> TE or GMPLS, when, in fact, MPLS is not enabled on >>> the link. >>>>>=20 >>>>> To address this issue, we simply need to define a new >>> sub-TLV in the >>>>> TE Link LSAto say whether MPLS/GMPLS/RSVP is enabled on the >>> link >>>>> instead of moving the TLVs around into different LSAs. >>>>>=20 >>>>> 2. The TE Opaque LSA carries link attributes that are >>> not >>>>> used or >>>>>=20 >>>>> required by MPLS TE or GMPLS. There is no >>> mechanism in TE >>>>> Opaque >>>>>=20 >>>>> LSA to indicate which of the link attributes >>> should be >>>>> passed to >>>>>=20 >>>>> MPLS TE application and which should be used by >>> OSPFv2 and >>>>> other >>>>>=20 >>>>> applications. >>>>>=20 >>>>> OSPF database is a container and OSPF can use any of the >>> LSAS for >>>>> its own use including the TE LSAs.As far as the TE database >>> goes, it >>>>> contains data from TE LSAs as well as non-TE LSAs (Network >>> LSA) >>>>> today so thereasoning described here doesn't make sense. >>>>>=20 >>>>> 3. Link attributes used for non-TE purposes is >>> partitioned >>>>> across >>>>>=20 >>>>> multiple LSAs - the TE Opaque LSA and the Extended >>> Link >>>>> Opaque >>>>>=20 >>>>> LSA. This partitioning will require >>> implementations to >>>>> lookup >>>>>=20 >>>>> multiple LSAs to extract link attributes for a >>> single >>>>> link, >>>>>=20 >>>>> bringing needless complexity to the OSPFv2 >>> implementations. >>>>>=20 >>>>> There will be nodes in the network which will run older >>> software >>>>> which send these attributes via TE LSAs so the problem of >>> looking >>>>> into the TE LSAs for TE relatedinformation doesn't get >>> solved with >>>>> this draft. Rather it makes it more complicated. With this >>> draft, >>>>> the multiple LSA lookup will only increase.An >>> implementation will >>>>> first have to find if Extended link LSA contains the >>> required info, >>>>> if not it will need to lookup the info in TE.LSA. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The applications using the TE parameters for non-TE use-cases >>> will use >>>>> the OSPF Prefix/Link attributes for these use cases. Hence, >>> there is >>>>> no requirement to lookup the LSAs in multiple places. Backward >>>>> compatibility will be covered in the specifications of these >>> applications. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Acee >>>>>=20 >>>>> Looking up multiple LSAs for information is an >>> implementation issue >>>>> and I am sure there will be implementations that will >>> handle this >>>>> gracefully so that it doesn't cause >>>>>=20 >>>>> delays in critical paths. It doesn't seem reasonable to >>> come up with >>>>> protocol extensions to solve implementation issues. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Rgds >>>>>=20 >>>>> Shraddha >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>=20 >>>> . >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From nobody Sun Oct 25 18:48:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD6E51B34C8; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:48:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.078 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, 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From nobody Mon Oct 26 00:19:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6474F1AC3E9; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:19:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.078 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lhOTgx3qsXSt; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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From nobody Mon Oct 26 02:58:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52B91B3A6F; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 02:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5X7vQeD-RMz; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 02:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B80B51B3A6E; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 02:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO 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from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 01:31:40 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.187]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:31:36 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on "Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF" Thread-Index: AQHRD4PS2yLgk7Npw0m+tpotn4Hztp59gv+g Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 01:31:35 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0CB3DAB5@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: 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([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BZH97311; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 03:38:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 03:38:55 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.187]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:38:50 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap538ayAgAa//SA= Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 03:38:50 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0CB3DC01@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1a3c0c41dfef4808aa02c34762bcbff1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1a3c0c41dfef4808aa02c34762bcbff1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 03:39:02 -0000 SGkgTGVzLA0KDQpJTUhPLCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc29tZSBmdW5kYW1lbnRhbCBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBi ZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSB1c2FnZSBvZiB0aGUgT3BlcmF0b3ItZGVmaW5lZCBTdWItVExWIENvbnRhaW5l ciBUTFYgYW5kIHRoZSB1c2FnZSBvZiB0aGUgR0VORUlORk8gVExWIGFzIGRlZmluZWQgaW4gUkZD NjgyMzoNCg0KMSkJSW4gdGhlIGZvcm1lciBhcHByb2FjaCwgdGhlIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGRhdGEg 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Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:54:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.17]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 30F471A0060; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:54:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a1e6:3e6a:1f68:5f7e%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:54:08 +0100 From: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap5+8oDw Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:54:07 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C87A0B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:54:12 -0000 SGkgQWNlZSwgYWxsLCANCg0KSSBzdXBwb3J0IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuIChJJ20gY28tYXV0aG9yKQ0K DQpUaGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgYXBwcm9hY2ggYWxsb3dzIHRvIGRpc3NlbWluYXRlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9u IHRoYXQgaXMgZGVwbG95bWVudC1zcGVjaWZpYyB3aXRob3V0IG92ZXJsb2FkaW5nIElBTkEgdG8g bWFpbnRhaW4gc3BlY2lmaWMgcmVnaXN0cmllcy4gDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0t TWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBPU1BGIFttYWlsdG86b3NwZi1ib3VuY2Vz QGlldGYub3JnXSBEZSBsYSBwYXJ0IGRlIEFjZWUgTGluZGVtIChhY2VlKQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6 IGx1bmRpIDE5IG9jdG9icmUgMjAxNSAyMjoyOQ0KPiDDgMKgOiBPU1BGIFdHIExpc3QNCj4gT2Jq 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b3BhcXVlbHkgKGkuZS4sIE9TUEYgaXMgdXNlZCBzb2xlbHkgYXMgYSBmbG9vZGluZyBtZWNoYW5p c20pLg0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhbmQgaW5kaWNhdGUg d2hldGhlciBvciBub3QgeW91IGZlZWwgdGhlDQo+IE9TUEYgV0cgc2hvdWxkIHdvcmsgb24gc3Vj aCBhIHNvbHV0aW9uLiBJZiB0aGVyZSBpcyBlbm91Z2ggaW50ZXJlc3QsIHdlDQo+IHdpbGwgYWRv cHQgaXQgYXMgYSBXRyBkb2N1bWVudC4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcywNCj4gQWNlZQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+ IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQo+IE9TUEYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IE9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9vc3BmDQo= From nobody Tue Oct 27 00:08:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90AF1B36A8 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 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Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.10.27.61515 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:08:00 -0000 SGkgTGVzLA0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHJhaXNpbmcgdGhlc2UgcG9pbnRzLCBlc3BlY2lhbGx5 IHRoZSBvbmUgYWJvdXQgYWJ1c2UgKG1pc3VzZSkuDQoNClRoZSBkYXRhIGlzIHNlbnQgYXMgYW4g b3BhcXVlIHZhbHVlLiBUaGUgZGF0YSBtYXkgYmUgdmFsaWRhdGVkIGJ5IGEgcmVjZWl2ZXIgYnV0 IHRoaXMgaXMgZGVwbG95bWVudC1zcGVjaWZpYy4gTGlrZXdpc2UsIHRoZSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9u IGRvZXMgbm90IGFzc3VtZSBhbiBvcmRlciBvZiB0aGUgVExWcyBhcyB0aGlzIGlzIGFsc28gbGVm dCB0byB0aGUgdGFzdGUgb2YgdGhlIG9wZXJhdG9yLiANCg0KVGhlIGRyYWZ0IGlzIG5vdCBmcm96 ZW4uIFRoZSB0ZXh0IHdpbGwgYmUgd29ya2VkIG91dCBmb3IgYmV0dGVyIGNsYXJpdHkgYW5kIGEg 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IE9TUEYgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQo+IE9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9vc3BmDQo= From nobody Tue Oct 27 02:02:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26771A1A1D; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZvngXYK7O07k; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x230.google.com (mail-yk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A6EB1A1A0B; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykft191 with SMTP id t191so28584843ykf.0; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=P88dH+JoRt/obTthOkUz3iJ1r23wyA17JeLazJYEY1M=; b=AqErLEPTmjrztg1B0iVEClfRCVsx0QWDLvcbjsh6ABJWFl2YeQpxHFhPFUF4WDRAj0 Es2D91/u2DgS8tMU2p/IOEATk9hkoRwoUm2lTR40l0t4r8KnkInVkd55dxuCDJunwU4y OZVY0HndYMC07mPnGJP81zAeoz2st+5EidZ1K4JTg9LPpkxfEOtocfOLzgmhi75rdkvT vooLNqRPSIHDWkn4l/wA8zwZdFyKTa4+zC68abD9gr8DRJoMYNzrBUHWA/5cPag5zljf YXkyCY/csiBIGzsMQp+WuH34WWQGQ6wUvWxjk7ABTlRmugr/Bd1i/A+hu88W67HidQO0 S7Kw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.107.138 with SMTP id g132mr14232436ywc.200.1445936532985; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.238.5 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:02:12 +0800 Message-ID: From: "Fan, Peng" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114739a46a9aee052312551c Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-flowspec-extensions@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "OSPF Extensions for Flow Specification" X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:02:19 -0000 --001a114739a46a9aee052312551c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am not aware of any relevant IPR (as co-author). Best regards, Peng 2015-10-26 18:00 GMT+08:00 Acee Lindem (acee) : > Speaking as a co-author, I am not aware of any relevant IPR. > > Thanks, > Acee > > On 10/25/15, 8:20 PM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: > > >Authors, > >Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > >whether it has been disclosed. > >Thanks, > >Acee > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > --001a114739a46a9aee052312551c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am not aware of any relevant IPR (as co-author).
Best regards,
Peng

2015-10-26 18:00 GMT+08:00 Acee Lindem (= acee) <acee@cisco.com>:
Speak= ing as a co-author, I am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Thanks,
Acee

On 10/25/15, 8:20 PM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

>Authors,
>Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, >whether it has been disclosed.
>Thanks,
>Acee
>
>

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

--001a114739a46a9aee052312551c-- From nobody Tue Oct 27 11:08:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77631ACDB0 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:08:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q6wF9HRUHP7L for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 569FB1ACDA9 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f792c6d00000686a-f9-562f508a7827 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AD.E4.26730.A805F265; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:23:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:08:11 -0400 From: Uma Chunduri To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Xuxiaohu , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap51JW0ggAFruYCACR1F0A== Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:08:11 +0000 Message-ID: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A6046915200863513A73F0@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0CB3C3B2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn25XgH6Ywd5NwhaT385jtmi5d4/d Yuv5VYwOzB5Tfm9k9Wg58pbVY8mSn0wBzFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGTd3zmYuWMRdcXHGdPYG xj9cXYycHBICJhI97ceYIWwxiQv31rOB2EICRxglTv5V62LkArKXM0pceXmdBSTBJqAn8XHq T3YQW0QgU+LJxb+MILawQIlE55QlQHEOoHipRP8PO4gSJ4mpmxrASlgEVCWe7r7ACmLzCvhK zOv9ygIxfyajxKyrz5lAEpwCOhLn/z0EO4IR6KDvp9aAxZkFxCVuPZnPBHGogMSSPeehjhaV ePn4HyuErSixr3862A3MApoS63fpQ7QqSkzpfsgOsVdQ4uTMJywTGEVnIZk6C6FjFpKOWUg6 FjCyrGLkKC1OLctNNzLcxAiMjmMSbI47GBd8sjzEKMDBqMTD+8FeL0yINbGsuDL3EKMEB7OS CG9Ptn6YEG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrxIUZpDhYlcd55M+6HCgmkJ5akZqemFqQWwWSZODilGhjV Dj7MWaMRGv7i53WRaRvWdn1PeRFy05MlpE752Zp6WUZxs9hl8R80F4gkSn+Ya/LxSiUvt7+K in8qR3W971XRHo3J/GzSp94JsnS/mip22LdpO8/ajtfS0XK+38QufvjR37Wl9/qFkxP85FSa 5IRl5AV/zfB3SX/5fu1cURPevEU/rXhadiuxFGckGmoxFxUnAgChU4XRigIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:08:22 -0000 SGkgQWNlZSwNCg0KCT5Ob3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGxvY2FsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHVzZSBjYXNlIHRp ZXMgbmljZWx5IHRvIHRoZSB0cmFuc3BvcnQgaW5zdGFuY2UgZHJhZnQgKGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMu aWV0Zi5vcmcvaWQvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLXRyYW5zcG9ydC1pbnN0YW5jZS0xMS50eHQpLg0K CT4gU3BlY2lmaWNhbGx5LCB3aXRoIHRoZSByZW1vdGUtbmVpZ2hib3IgY2FwYWJpbGl0eSwgb25l IGNhbiB1c2UgYW4gaW5zdGFuY2Ugb25seSBpbmNsdWRpbmcgdGhlIG5vZGVzIHJ1bm5pbmcgdGhl IGxvY2FsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCByZXF1aXJpbmcgDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgID4gZXhjaGFu Z2Ugb2YgZmxvb2RlZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbi4gSW4gY29uanVuY3Rpb24gd2l0aCB0cmFuc3BvcnQg aW5zdGFuY2UsIEnigJlkIGFjdHVhbGx5IGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgYSBzaW1pbGFyIGVuY29kaW5nLg0K DQpXZSBoYXZlIHByZXNlbnRlZCB0aGlzIHBvaW50IGluIGVhcmxpZXIgbWVldGluZ3MuIA0KDQoi IEl04oCZcyByZWFzb25hYmxlIHRoYXQgbm9uLXJvdXRpbmcgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gc2hvdWxkIGJl IGFkdmVydGlzZWQgaW4gYSBub24tcm91dGluZyBpbnN0YW5jZSBvZiBPU1BGIGFzIGRlZmluZWQg aW4gaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi10cmFuc3BvcnQt aW5zdGFuY2UtMTEgc28gYXMgdG8gbWluaW1pemUgdGhlIGltcGFjdCBvbiB0aGUgb3BlcmF0aW9u IG9mIHJvdXRpbmcuIg0KDQoiSG93ZXZlciwgc2luY2UgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGNvbnRhaW5l ZCBpbiB0aGUgT3BlcmF0b3IgRGVmaW5lZCBUTFYgbWF5IGJlIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHJvdXRp bmcsIHdoZXRoZXIgb3Igbm90IHVzaW5nIGEgbm9uLXJvdXRpbmcgIGluc3RhbmNlIHRvIGZsb29k IHRoZSBPRCBUTFZzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBkZXRlcm1pbmVkIGJ5IG9wZXJhdG9ycyBhY2NvcmRpbmcg dG8gdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRvIGJlIGNvbnZleWVkIGJ5IHRoZSBPRCAgc3ViLVRMVi4iDQoN ClRoeCENCg0KLS0NClVtYSBDLg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Oct 27 11:10:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AD51ACD7F; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:10:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9EXOLO5e2WW1; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFB271ACDBB; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79ef6d000007f54-42-562f5d15c7b0 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2A.C5.32596.51D5F265; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:16:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:10:07 -0400 From: Uma Chunduri To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on "Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF" Thread-Index: AQHRD4PS2yLgk7Npw0m+tpotn4Hztp5/pkOg Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:10:06 +0000 Message-ID: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A6046915200863513A740B@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrK5orH6YwZejqhaT385jttj8ZSKb Rcu9e+wOzB5Tfm9k9Viy5CdTAFMUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8ajTc+YCu6xVCxbfoitgfEHcxcj J4eEgInEzuczmCBsMYkL99azgdhCAkcYJRo3S3QxcgHZyxklVkzpZwVJsAnoSXyc+pMdJCEi 0MEoMa39FdgkZgEFiWsXbwF1c3AIC7hIrD1UAxIWEXCV2Hd0DTOEbSTxcsN6RpASFgFViRt/ 00FMXgFfiT2rYiHWaktsP9PPCGJzCuhIfLzxA8xmBDrt+6k1TBCLxCVuPZkPdbKAxJI956Fe EZV4+fgfK4StKLGvfzo7RL2OxILdn9ggbG2JZQtfg9XzCghKnJz5hGUCo9gsJGNnIWmZhaRl FpKWBYwsqxg5SotTy3LTjQw2MQJj5ZgEm+4Oxj0vLQ8xCnAwKvHwfrDXCxNiTSwrrsw9xCjB wawkwtuTrR8mxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sak1p8iFGag0VJnHf/kvuhQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6p BsbGX61L1pQzP5meMGOiZ/DWlV1aZUtTORy2qBm+zIvc5a0TbLjG43Iz5+U/irdD7YoXMVkt 5mmPjjz4ouWFzL4V3/lij219ev6kwOUXllsurN++ZeOSa4+VYpmLUzmWvoxy0N3v2tgQ8+f9 padf01yfXbv9jGeL9IWzNwStVu1e9y+g7mHUCmY+JZbijERDLeai4kQANfH8apECAAA= Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF" X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:10:12 -0000 Not aware of any IPRs relevant to this work. -- Uma C. -----Original Message----- From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:18 PM To: draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF" Authors, Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, whethe= r it has been disclosed. Thanks, Acee _______________________________________________ OSPF mailing list OSPF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From nobody Tue Oct 27 12:27:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E201ACE81; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:27:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iPjt-8yogxUt; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22b.google.com (mail-oi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2423E1ACE80; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oies66 with SMTP id s66so126407813oie.1; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:27:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=C/8OCuXNiVw03m4edMr2W+UWmgJD62WCs6diM2Y4f4o=; b=Lo93Bcg+NS2ANqOcp2b7s0gwZ4AnNrgBlMBV8lPlH3o1S4nSMGGDrm2FtVRH44op8Z XkqBzP5fO7Et4dJoZ+YiqVDFJdtNb3ARHjv8WCAehSbLS47NY6vW1kun1WgOusXdPEsh /8ca3xc4TOQ7YaAtekVzWYN930LyuGy/G0zZgUbP61kfXzBpuazc7HdGpiG9qR3Vw9zo AaMXWVV0rrDQxigIVlc+bSlDyK80GDc4Y75P+Tlp9ABcnUTkeM7FBYAYzjIF53GACQ7H r23VZY8m/bSNJcgPTZbDl8W4YukZuN2b0YSU+3EP+Ko0576D6dP0XhUYY1JqCEeJajqQ tWGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.195.208 with SMTP id t199mr28045459oif.117.1445974036568; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.224.197 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:27:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:27:16 -0500 Message-ID: From: Luay Jalil To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134fb0acde2f505231b104a Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "Advertising Tunnelling Capability in OSPF" X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:27:18 -0000 --001a1134fb0acde2f505231b104a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm not aware of any relevant IPR Regards, Luay On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > whether it has been disclosed. > Thanks, > Acee > > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > -- *Luay* --001a1134fb0acde2f505231b104a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not aware of any = relevant IPR

Regards,
Luay
=
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Acee Lindem= (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Authors,
Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so,
whether it has been disclosed.
Thanks,
Acee


_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf



--
Luay
--001a1134fb0acde2f505231b104a-- From nobody Tue Oct 27 12:29:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C5381ACE89; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:28:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zQtUBh2VSjuM; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x236.google.com (mail-ob0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DBBA1ACE87; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbza9 with SMTP id za9so61910625obb.1; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:28:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=630Xc/mHbrswkd5PfSFbyBQFp1gN2wDGMlzURj4J5IM=; b=ApW0oXMfiTwbhCQjB5vKKh4AXu3BL+ndyBEZR7nB2N0yAFQWUBNQDYddDjkJ6/GNAZ o37eoSGYo2InoxEhTub97xhQAmaYaiTyLX33nEpzJMLfIkaANgIp03a66vbCwwfrIG1s MWZwyIBZnBUgsq/U0KCCz0dyrklM8KXDL6hrUHXUTSCh6ESPdZVFY4PE3XRuk74RZKkL IdQgtsC+RLdkRwn5FyqCDHJgoUjuLhknd73nQnAbdgvfHQkT4YQy3/48pLyxLxaZ+tQO AHG0pJgFGOIehWF5ApuELVqDagdQRCiEGKBrsJz+Oq799bozS0OulAnlAgl1tAzAQ66U cDBQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.50.195 with SMTP id e3mr31057955obo.86.1445974134630; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.224.197 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:28:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: Luay Jalil To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b770a644e305231b16f7 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List , "draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "OSPF Link Overload" X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:28:59 -0000 --089e0160b770a644e305231b16f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm not aware of any relevant IPR Regards, Luay On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so, > whether it has been disclosed. > Thanks, > Acee > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > -- *Luay* --089e0160b770a644e305231b16f7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not aware of any = relevant IPR

Regards,
Luay
=
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Acee Lindem= (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Authors,
Please indicate whether you are aware of any relevant IPR and if so,
whether it has been disclosed.
Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf



--
Luay
--089e0160b770a644e305231b16f7-- From nobody Tue Oct 27 13:27:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32F51AD080; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:27:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lnzei26kEDfW; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-nor34.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EF451AD072; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 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c3NhZ2UgYSBldGUgYWx0ZXJlLCBkZWZvcm1lIG91IGZhbHNpZmllLiBNZXJjaQoKVGhpcyBtZXNz YWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIG9yIHByaXZp bGVnZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91 bGQgbm90IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNvcGllZCB3aXRob3V0IGF1dGhvcml6YXRp b24uCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3Rp ZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRz LgpBcyBlbWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIEZyYW5jZSBUZWxlY29tIC0gT3JhbmdlIHNoYWxs IG5vdCBiZSBsaWFibGUgaWYgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIHdhcyBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBm YWxzaWZpZWQuClRoYW5rIHlvdS4KCg== From nobody Tue Oct 27 17:19:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF931B3181 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:19:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 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Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:18:46 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:18:46 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap538ayAgAcBl7CAASJxcA== Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 00:18:45 +0000 Message-ID: <6d54006a312844d5a749ec5cd7fd3fdc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <1a3c0c41dfef4808aa02c34762bcbff1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C87A3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C87A3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.208.13] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 00:19:17 -0000 TW9oYW1lZCAtDQoNClRoZSBkYXRhIGNhbiBjZXJ0YWlubHkgYmUgb3BhcXVlIHRvIE9TUEYgc2lu Y2UgT1NQRiBpcyBtZXJlbHkgYWN0aW5nIGFzIGEgdHJhbnNwb3J0LiBCdXQgaXQgY2Fubm90IGJl IG9wYXF1ZSB0byB0aGUgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gd2hpY2ggaXMgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8gcHJvY2VzcyB0 aGlzIGRhdGEuIFRoZSBkcmFmdCBjdXJyZW50bHkgc2F5czoNCg0KIlRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIG5lZWQg Zm9yIGFueSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uIHRvIGRlZmluZSBhbnkgb3BlcmF0b3ItZGVmaW5lZA0KICAg 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d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vb3NwZg0K From nobody Tue Oct 27 20:25:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757B11B4328; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:25:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2rOgh-rXlLk3; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0139.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1384 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Poll on "OSPF Link Overload" X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 03:25:16 -0000 DQpJIGFtIG5vdCBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIG90aGVyIHRoYW4gZGlzY2xvc2VkIGJ5IGp1bmlw ZXIuDQoNClJnZHMNClNocmFkZGhhDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9t OiBBY2VlIExpbmRlbSAoYWNlZSkgW21haWx0bzphY2VlQGNpc2NvLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiBNb25k YXksIE9jdG9iZXIgMjYsIDIwMTUgNTo0NiBBTQ0KVG86IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi1saW5rLW92 ZXJsb2FkQGlldGYub3JnDQpDYzogT1NQRiBXRyBMaXN0IDxvc3BmQGlldGYub3JnPg0KU3ViamVj dDogSVBSIFBvbGwgb24gIk9TUEYgTGluayBPdmVybG9hZCIgDQoNCkF1dGhvcnMsDQpQbGVhc2Ug aW5kaWNhdGUgd2hldGhlciB5b3UgYXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSByZWxldmFudCBJUFIgYW5kIGlm IHNvLCB3aGV0aGVyIGl0IGhhcyBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZC4NClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUNCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 28 07:23:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B32B1B556C for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 07:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id raV7pvS8_tNh for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C66B21B556B for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 07:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 211B926425A; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:23:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.58]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id F258F35C048; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:23:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM33.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::3881:fc15:b4b2:9017%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:23:22 +0100 From: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap538ayAgAcBl7CAASJxcIAA6PXA Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:23:22 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C8896D@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <1a3c0c41dfef4808aa02c34762bcbff1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C87A3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6d54006a312844d5a749ec5cd7fd3fdc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6d54006a312844d5a749ec5cd7fd3fdc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.10.28.135415 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:23:27 -0000 SGkgTGVzLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4gDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0t TWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBMZXMgR2luc2JlcmcgKGdpbnNiZXJnKSBb bWFpbHRvOmdpbnNiZXJnQGNpc2NvLmNvbV0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBtZXJjcmVkaSAyOCBvY3Rv YnJlIDIwMTUgMDE6MTkNCj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgSU1UL09MTjsgQWNlZSBM aW5kZW0gKGFjZWUpOyBPU1BGIFdHIExpc3QNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogUkU6IE9TUEYgT3BlcmF0b3It RGVmaW5lZCBUTFZzIChodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pZC9kcmFmdC0NCj4gY2h1bmR1cmkt b3NwZi1vcGVyYXRvci1kZWZpbmVkLXRsdnMtMDEudHh0KQ0KPiANCj4gTW9oYW1lZCAtDQo+IA0K PiBUaGUgZGF0YSBjYW4gY2VydGFpbmx5IGJlIG9wYXF1ZSB0byBPU1BGIHNpbmNlIE9TUEYgaXMg bWVyZWx5IGFjdGluZyBhcyBhDQo+IHRyYW5zcG9ydC4NCg0KW01lZF0gWWVzLCB0aGlzIGlzIHRo ZSBpbnRlbnQgb2YgdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4NCg0KIEJ1dCBpdCBjYW5ub3QgYmUgb3BhcXVlIHRvIHRo 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alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9SJHSSN020625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:17:28 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:17:03 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:17:03 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , OSPF WG List Thread-Topic: OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHRCqzYT+PSKWZbDkygrQxSvdVsap538ayAgAcBl7CAASJxcIAA6PXAgABnSwA= Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1a3c0c41dfef4808aa02c34762bcbff1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C87A3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6d54006a312844d5a749ec5cd7fd3fdc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C8896D@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008C8896D@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <41F42A62C5B1FA49BA8EA95E7A5C83E1@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPF Operator-Defined TLVs (https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chunduri-ospf-operator-defined-tlvs-01.txt) X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:17:32 -0000 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Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9vc3BmDQoNCg== From nobody Sat Oct 31 01:03:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietf.org Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4A81A19E9; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 01:03:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.7.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151031080302.13132.83494.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 01:03:02 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: ospf@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [OSPF] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ospf-ttz X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 08:03:02 -0000 Dear Huaimo Chen, Renwei Li, Gregory Cauchie, Alvaro Retana, Ning So, Vic Liu, Mehmet Toy, Lei Liu: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "OSPF Topology-Transparent Zone" (draft-ietf-ospf-ttz) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2701/). The title of the IPR disclosure is " Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ospf-ttz" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Sat Oct 31 02:33:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ospf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958D41A6F3E; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 02:33:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0BsF3EQxF5D1; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 02:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68A4F1A6F38; 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Sat, 31 Oct 2015 09:33:26 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 05:32:58 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 05:32:59 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: IETF Secretariat , "draft-ietf-ospf-ttz@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OSPF] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ospf-ttz Thread-Index: AQHRE7KNOAhhJAsDFUO9uZwD1qzFjJ6GMOGA Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 09:32:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151031080302.13132.83494.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151031080302.13132.83494.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.65.80] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <78BD2EBA1938CB4CA093C34023A662BF@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: OSPF WG List Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ospf-ttz X-BeenThere: ospf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: The Official IETF OSPG WG Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 09:33:32 -0000 VGhpcyBJUFIgd2FzIHByZXZpb3VzbHkgZGlzY2xvc2VkLg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KQWNlZQ0KDQpPbiAx MC8zMS8xNSwgNTowMyBQTSwgIk9TUEYgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQiDQo8 b3NwZi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBpZXRmLWlwckBpZXRmLm9yZz4gd3Jv dGU6DQoNCj5EZWFyIEh1YWltbyBDaGVuLCBSZW53ZWkgTGksIEdyZWdvcnkgQ2F1Y2hpZSwgQWx2 YXJvIFJldGFuYSwgTmluZyBTbywgVmljDQo+TGl1LCBNZWhtZXQgVG95LCBMZWkgTGl1Og0KPg0K Pg0KPkFuIElQUiBkaXNjbG9zdXJlIHRoYXQgcGVydGFpbnMgdG8geW91ciBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFm dCBlbnRpdGxlZCAiT1NQRg0KPlRvcG9sb2d5LVRyYW5zcGFyZW50IFpvbmUiIChkcmFmdC1pZXRm LW9zcGYtdHR6KSB3YXMgc3VibWl0dGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGDQo+U2VjcmV0YXJpYXQgb24gIGFu ZCBoYXMgYmVlbiBwb3N0ZWQgb24gdGhlICJJRVRGIFBhZ2Ugb2YgSW50ZWxsZWN0dWFsDQo+UHJv cGVydHkNCj5SaWdodHMgRGlzY2xvc3VyZXMiIChodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3Jn L2lwci8yNzAxLykuIFRoZSB0aXRsZQ0KPm9mIHRoZQ0KPklQUiBkaXNjbG9zdXJlIGlzICIgSHVh d2VpIFRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBDby4sTHRkJ3MgU3RhdGVtZW50IGFib3V0IElQUg0KPnJlbGF0ZWQg dG8gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLXR0eiINCj4NCj4NCj5UaGFuayB5b3UNCj4NCj5JRVRGIFNlY3Jl dGFyaWF0DQo+DQo+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCj5PU1BGIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPk9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29zcGYNCg0K