From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 3 07:16:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA00752 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5Nuo-00005F-Kh for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:16:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h93BG6p7000318 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:16:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5Nuo-000053-Ex for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:16:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA00722 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5Nun-0006q7-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:16:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5Nun-0006q1-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:16:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5Nuj-0008Vg-Ba; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:16:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5Nu4-0008UB-IP for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:15:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA00699 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:15:13 -0400 (EDT) From: ydoi@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5Nu3-0006pV-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:15:20 -0400 Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp ([202.33.96.40]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5Nu3-0006pR-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:15:19 -0400 Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id h93BFGF1023168 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:15:16 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id h93BFGaN006458 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:15:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from tis2 [133.199.160.66] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id WAA06457 ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:15:16 +0900 Received: from mx4.toshiba.co.jp by tis2.tis.toshiba.co.jp id UAA15727; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:15:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id UAA01053; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:15:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from rome.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (ydoi@rome [133.196.12.4]) by isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (8.11.7/8.11.6/1.4) with ESMTP id h93BFDT29275 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:15:14 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:15:13 +0900 Message-ID: To: p2prg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [P2Prg] Kick-off meeting date change In-Reply-To: <4E813150-F094-11D7-B524-000A95766260@eng.sun.com> References: <4E813150-F094-11D7-B524-000A95766260@eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 MULE XEmacs/21.1 (patch 8) (Bryce Canyon) (sparc-sun-solaris2.5.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Chairs, I'll attend on the meeting. If there's any planned agenda for the meeting please give it to us. I guess Bill's message on Aug. 21 is the base of discussion, isn't it? Yusuke _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 3 14:18:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19167 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:18:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5UVC-0003Yo-3x for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:18:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h93II6ap013682 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:18:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5UVB-0003Yb-Tj for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:18:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19160 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5UV9-0004Su-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:18:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5UV9-0004Sr-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:18:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5UV7-0003Xg-Bw; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:18:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5UUa-0003X9-9o for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:17:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19147 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5UUX-0004Sf-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:17:25 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5UUX-0004Sc-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:17:25 -0400 Received: from engmail1mpk.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.11.21]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93IHOaV016915; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:17:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phys-mpkmaila (phys-mpkmaila.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.18.131]) by engmail1mpk.Eng.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h93IHODS024786; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roam (roam.Eng.Sun.COM [152.70.8.108]) by mpkmail.eng.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Apr 2 2002)) with SMTP id <0HM70087R1H0MW@mpkmail.eng.sun.com>; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Yeager Subject: Re: [P2Prg] Kick-off meeting date change In-reply-to: Your message with ID To: ydoi@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp Cc: p2prg@ietf.org Reply-to: Bill Yeager Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT | Chairs, | | I'll attend on the meeting. If there's any planned agenda for the | meeting please give it to us. I guess Bill's message on Aug. 21 is | the base of discussion, isn't it? Hi Ysuke, Bobby and I will need to put together an agenda. I'm sure we will use the charter as as its basis, and will hope to end the meeting with some definite areas of research we want to initially pursue on the mailing list. Certainly, we hope to be able to divide and conquer, finding individuals who will be willing to lead subgroups. I'll work with Bobby in the background to send out an agenda next week. Thanks so much for attending. It looks like we will have around 10+ attendees. Also, any of you who just show up on the 13th will be more than welcome. Bill _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 19:57:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15606 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7OB0-0002gc-1l for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:57:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98Nv64N010320 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:57:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7OAz-0002gN-Tp for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:57:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15598 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7OAy-000682-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:57:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7OAx-00067x-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:57:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7OAu-0002fH-Ua; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:57:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7OA2-0002ad-00 for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:56:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15564 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:55:57 -0400 (EDT) From: jaltman@columbia.edu Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7O9z-00067e-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:56:03 -0400 Received: from [63.87.252.151] (helo=atlsvrwebexc001.mail.ziffdavisinet.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7O9z-00067P-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:56:03 -0400 Received: from Atlsvrwebvig002.ziffdavisinet.com ([10.2.32.2]) by atlsvrwebexc001.mail.ziffdavisinet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:01:11 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by Atlsvrwebvig002.ziffdavisinet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:57:54 -0400 Reply-To: To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:57:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A4C_01C38DD6.75F42C40" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2003 23:57:54.0000 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD24ED00:01C38DF7] Subject: [P2Prg] Bill to Discourage P2P in Government Advances Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A4C_01C38DD6.75F42C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know what the text of this bill looks like? Is it really specific to file sharing networks? Or does the bill restrict the use of "peer to peer" technologies without a focused definition. Jeffrey Altman An article from eWEEK has been sent to you. Follow this link to view the article: Bill to Discourage P2P in Government Advances Copyright (c) 2003 Ziff Davis Media Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------=_NextPart_000_0A4C_01C38DD6.75F42C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does = anyone know what the text of this bill looks like? Is it really = specific to file sharing networks? Or does the bill restrict the use of = "peer to peer" technologies without a focused definition. Jeffrey Altman


An article from eWEEK has = been sent to you. Follow this link to view the article: = Bill to Discourage P2P in Government Advances

Copyright (c) 2003 Ziff Davis Media Inc. All = Rights Reserved. ------=_NextPart_000_0A4C_01C38DD6.75F42C40-- _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 22:35:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19628 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Qdz-0000bD-B7 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:35:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h992ZBs3002300 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Qdy-0000b1-Th for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:35:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19621 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7Qdv-0007eS-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:35:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7Qdv-0007eP-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:35:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Qdq-0000Zv-N7; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:35:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Qcx-0000ZD-BY for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:34:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19603 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7Qct-0007dx-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:34:03 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7Qct-0007du-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:34:03 -0400 Received: from esunmail ([129.147.156.34]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h992Y2aV021105 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xpa-fe1 (esunmail [129.147.156.34]) by edgemail1.Central.Sun.COM (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMG00GJ3XSQBX@edgemail1.Central.Sun.COM> for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eng.sun.com ([63.205.184.31]) by mail.sun.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTPSA id <0HMG006FTXSGDB@mail.sun.net> for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:33:47 -0700 From: Bill Yeager Subject: Re: [P2Prg] Bill to Discourage P2P in Government Advances In-reply-to: To: jaltman@columbia.edu Cc: p2prg@irtf.org Message-id: <02925F90-FA01-11D7-BFE3-000A95766260@eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Good question! It seems to be the usual "knee-jerk" reaction to P2P without understanding how useful it is. In a sense, the fear that it inspires is directly proportional to its power. Power to P2P! See you on Monday! Bill On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 04:57 PM, jaltman@columbia.edu wrote: > Does anyone know what the text of this bill looks like? Is it really > specific to file sharing networks? Or does the bill restrict the use > of "peer to peer" technologies without a focused definition. Jeffrey > Altman > _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 14 17:49:56 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04401 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9X2v-0005Gn-1H for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:37 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9ELnakE020251 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9X2u-0005GX-O4 for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:36 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04348 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9X2L-0005CG-GD; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9X1v-0005Bs-HW for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:48:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04313 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9X1s-0001zI-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:48:32 -0400 Received: from joda.cis.temple.edu ([155.247.71.60] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9X1s-0001zD-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:48:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (root@localhost.temple.edu [127.0.0.1]) by joda.cis.temple.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00736 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [P2Prg] Bill to Discourage P2P in Government Advances From: John Fiore To: p2prg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1066168106.16135.18.camel@hawkeye.cis.temple.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.3 Date: 14 Oct 2003 17:48:26 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't read the entire bill but it sounds as though it's not a knee-jerk reaction to anything. If the bill's fact sheet is representative of what the bill really does, the bill forces federal agencies to consider the security risks of using P2P in their own networks, which sounds pretty reasonable to me. One would only hope that they would consider the security risks of using any software on their networks, not just P2P. >From the bill's fact sheet: H.R. 3159, the Government Network Security Act of 2003, requires that federal agencies address the security risks posed by P2P file sharing programs when developing their network policies and procedures. Agencies must ensure that federal computers and the important information they store remain secure, private, and protected, but agencies are given the flexibility to develop the most appropriate means of accomplishing this goal through a combination of technological means (such as firewalls) or nontechnological means (such as employee training). Under H.R. 3159, each agency will have six months in which to develop and implement a plan for protecting their computers from the security risks posed by P2P file sharing. Within the following year, GAO must review these plans and report back to Congress on their adequacy and effectiveness. The Government Network Security Act does not hinder the ability of federal agencies to pursue new advances in technology, including peer-to-peer technologies needed for government applications. It requires only that in pursuing these innovations, agencies not put at risk the security of government files. John > Good question! It seems to be the usual "knee-jerk" reaction to P2P > without understanding how useful it is. > > In a sense, the fear that it inspires is directly proportional to its > power. Power to P2P! > > See you on Monday! > > Bill > > On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 04:57 PM, jaltman@columbia.edu > wrote: > > > Does anyone know what the text of this bill looks like? Is it really > > specific to file sharing networks? Or does the bill restrict the use > > of "peer to peer" technologies without a focused definition. Jeffrey > > Altman > > _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 11:19:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04226 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nQf-0004L6-FR for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FFJDwk016679 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nQf-0004Kw-91 for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04208 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nQe-0005ln-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nQd-0005lj-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nQT-0004JG-4T; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nPg-0004Ha-GT for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:18:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04125 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nPf-0005kI-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:18:11 -0400 Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu ([128.59.59.238] ident=cu41754) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nPe-0005kA-00 for p2prg@irtf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:18:10 -0400 Received: from columbia.edu (66-108-138-151.nyc.rr.com [66.108.138.151]) (user=jaltman mech=PLAIN bits=0) by jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9FFI5sj024267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8CE128.7050105@columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:54:48 -0700 From: Jeffrey Altman Reply-To: p2prg@ietf.org Organization: Columbia University in the City of New York User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Fiore CC: p2prg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [P2Prg] Bill to Discourage P2P in Government Advances References: <1066168106.16135.18.camel@hawkeye.cis.temple.edu> In-Reply-To: <1066168106.16135.18.camel@hawkeye.cis.temple.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050508070408020804030200" X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050508070408020804030200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John: Thank you. Assuming the fact sheet is accurate this sounds very reasonable. - Jeff John Fiore wrote: >I didn't read the entire bill but it sounds as though it's not a >knee-jerk reaction to anything. If the bill's fact sheet is >representative of what the bill really does, the bill forces federal >agencies to consider the security risks of using P2P in their own >networks, which sounds pretty reasonable to me. > >One would only hope that they would consider the security risks of using >any software on their networks, not just P2P. > >>From the bill's fact sheet: > > H.R. 3159, the Government Network Security Act of 2003, > requires that federal agencies address the security risks posed > by P2P file sharing programs when developing their network > policies and procedures. Agencies must ensure that federal > computers and the important information they store remain > secure, private, and protected, but agencies are given the > flexibility to develop the most appropriate means of > accomplishing this goal through a combination of technological > means (such as firewalls) or nontechnological means (such as > employee training). Under H.R. 3159, each agency will have six > months in which to develop and implement a plan for protecting > their computers from the security risks posed by P2P file > sharing. Within the following year, GAO must review these plans > and report back to Congress on their adequacy and effectiveness. > The Government Network Security Act does not hinder the > ability of federal agencies to pursue new advances in > technology, including peer-to-peer technologies needed for > government applications. It requires only that in pursuing these > innovations, agencies not put at risk the security of government > files. > >John > > --------------ms050508070408020804030200 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJUDCC AwYwggJvoAMCAQICAwpxijANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNV BAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUx HTAbBgNVBAsTFENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVl bWFpbCBSU0EgMjAwMC44LjMwMB4XDTAzMDczMDAyMDkyOFoXDTA0MDcyOTAyMDkyOFowRjEf MB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEjMCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUamFsdG1h bkBjb2x1bWJpYS5lZHUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDBtDG6ZyGA sK+rZOfKPKGBn6oCTLYSLk/mpeX9QTmTG71qh308KUeN35qqoRXjLvscfw6NPOYXiuxE/RqL sx7WKEnK3C4gzzpioCTX1b7o4M7YbpvCRBFPE9Jgsd0yz2EN+mk/pPuK1GP+iQNot2m4A56A aPe6F5T25GqffU535GNIdAtWPao6wHcOm17se25ny/TNzb9mlA4UzYl9XP7MF1fkpJyaDDAy DNNTSSjxBdPVs2EaYq1p/xadXbIpysQiySXAxoeiZusgJopRHLcBsBmmY9QVD4QnUqZVmfJ5 f1CiNri5vlexKCmdFSrxMLuoLr4EQZCECdusp6ZnIt75AgMBAAGjMTAvMB8GA1UdEQQYMBaB FGphbHRtYW5AY29sdW1iaWEuZWR1MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEA DPKe/CuAgEUxsrPskJQx2fL6soAEG2iqrqOGIRREHDaXWDBNMEWEbOEMLvh3+yhqHOUc9x3r 2IfsP/XHnujaqsMVXLagokVTnpPN675wv8LZ8hLHblLnykaTCq6RZpVskh2iAiJwpYMcKNF6 jyYaQyGHBGT3PK8uVGVCG4Pp9k4wggMGMIICb6ADAgECAgMKcYowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAw gZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUg VG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczEo MCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMDAeFw0wMzA3MzAwMjA5 MjhaFw0wNDA3MjkwMjA5MjhaMEYxHzAdBgNVBAMTFlRoYXd0ZSBGcmVlbWFpbCBNZW1iZXIx IzAhBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWFGphbHRtYW5AY29sdW1iaWEuZWR1MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAwbQxumchgLCvq2TnyjyhgZ+qAky2Ei5P5qXl/UE5kxu9aod9PClH jd+aqqEV4y77HH8OjTzmF4rsRP0ai7Me1ihJytwuIM86YqAk19W+6ODO2G6bwkQRTxPSYLHd Ms9hDfppP6T7itRj/okDaLdpuAOegGj3uheU9uRqn31Od+RjSHQLVj2qOsB3Dpte7HtuZ8v0 zc2/ZpQOFM2JfVz+zBdX5KScmgwwMgzTU0ko8QXT1bNhGmKtaf8WnV2yKcrEIsklwMaHombr ICaKURy3AbAZpmPUFQ+EJ1KmVZnyeX9Qoja4ub5XsSgpnRUq8TC7qC6+BEGQhAnbrKemZyLe +QIDAQABozEwLzAfBgNVHREEGDAWgRRqYWx0bWFuQGNvbHVtYmlhLmVkdTAMBgNVHRMBAf8E AjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAAzynvwrgIBFMbKz7JCUMdny+rKABBtoqq6jhiEURBw2 l1gwTTBFhGzhDC74d/soahzlHPcd69iH7D/1x57o2qrDFVy2oKJFU56Tzeu+cL/C2fISx25S 58pGkwqukWaVbJIdogIicKWDHCjReo8mGkMhhwRk9zyvLlRlQhuD6fZOMIIDODCCAqGgAwIB AgIQZkVyt8x09c9jdkWE0C6RATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTAT BgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lv bjEkMCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkB FhxwZXJzb25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAwMDgzMDAwMDAwMFoXDTA0MDgy NzIzNTk1OVowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNV BAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMDCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEA3jMypmPHCSVFPtJueCdngcXaiBmClw7jRCmKYzUq bXA8+tyu9+50bzC8M5B/+TRxoKNtmPHDT6Jl2w36S/HW3WGl+YXNVZo1Gp2Sdagnrthy+boC 9tewkd4c6avgGAOofENCUFGHgzzwObSbVIoTh/+zm51JZgAtCYnslGvpoWkCAwEAAaNOMEww KQYDVR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDEtMjk3MBIGA1UdEwEB/wQI MAYBAf8CAQAwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBADGxS0dd+QFx5fVTbF15 1j2YwCYTYoEipxL4IpXoG0m3J3sEObr85vIk65H6vewNKjj3UFWobPcNrUwbvAP0teuiR59s ogxYjTFCCRFssBpp0SsSskBdavl50OouJd2K5PzbDR+dAvNa28o89kTqJmmHf0iezqWf54TY yWJirQXGMYID1TCCA9ECAQEwgZowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJu IENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIw MDAuOC4zMAIDCnGKMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggIPMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMTAxNTA1NTQ0OFowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFOuehI/f29Bv xKjdb4M9cLKIoU5/MFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGrBgkrBgEEAYI3 EAQxgZ0wgZowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNV BAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMAIDCnGK MIGtBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBnaCBmjCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rl cm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUxHTAbBgNVBAsT FENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBSU0Eg MjAwMC44LjMwAgMKcYowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAM3n21OFFSVCzGErI06s4cszdJEA+ 3wmGZAFd3E1OnrDMFtLeM9FpgaRnJfs/bG2lby2K6oRgn2wgbz1dwKvj3SAmEdbxDXvwW+e1 pZT+v7fYTNMca89TSUadQleP6/fYELp/kbmlVOOtsmYiq+Isc51rgBkyE42Z86EE4rKuSJi7 UYoPh90nIpwqqhxM7KGcPSsG8v9TOKNhsIHi91AkWQ7n01kt0eSvUgrMf8NDpRyjbwJqIjU6 ud9VRuRoUDqWfW5FVqc+B5eMEqRy5aV2Rqs6kFOP8iA6gokRGJgVKiUSRuzhMSHF0vNsP3CG uU5CRTNS2nt62n8qpQMnfwY2rQAAAAAAAA== --------------ms050508070408020804030200-- _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 11:47:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05645 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nrg-0007MX-UV for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FFl8MG028295 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nrg-0007MI-PB for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05626 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nrf-0006Fd-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nrf-0006Fa-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nrb-0007K3-VF; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nrP-0007Hw-BZ for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05594 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nrJ-0006Ej-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:45 -0400 Received: from pecan.cc.columbia.edu ([128.59.59.178] ident=cu41754) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nrI-0006Eg-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:44 -0400 Received: from columbia.edu (66-108-138-151.nyc.rr.com [66.108.138.151]) (user=jaltman mech=PLAIN bits=0) by pecan.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9FFkdXk007588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8D6BDF.9090902@columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:46:39 -0700 From: Jeffrey Altman Organization: Columbia University in the City of New York User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: p2p-irtf Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms040501050904090605080209" X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [P2Prg] [Fwd: Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture] Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040501050904090605080209 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050204010607090205060401" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050204010607090205060401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following discussion list appears to have relevance to our work in the P2P space. Jeffrey Altman --------------050204010607090205060401 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture" Return-Path: Received: from asgard.ietf.org (asgard.ietf.org [132.151.6.40]) by tepin.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9FDr8dA024583; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by asgard.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.14) id 1A9lai-0004eY-5L for ietf-announce-list@asgard.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:21:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([10.27.2.28]) by asgard.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A9laW-0004cS-KV for all-ietf@asgard.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:21:16 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28670 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310151321.JAA28670@ietf.org> From: Leslie Daigle To: IETF-Announce: ; Subject: Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:21:08 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (*) MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3 TO_MALFORMED X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Following the IAB Open Architecture meeting at the Vienna IETF, the IAB proposed the creation of a mailing list forum for further discussion of the architectural topics raised. See below for the charter and particulars of that mailing list forum, which is now open for subscription and participation. Thanks, Leslie, for the IAB. Scoped Address Architecture Discussion list List: saad@ietf.org Subscribe: saad-request@ietf.org Moderator: Eric Rescorla We have specified an Internet that works, at the network layer, using relatively stable but not permanent identifiers for connection endpoints, which are allocated and administered using a topology dependent model, implying a service provider dependent model. But we run into problems (the architecture doesn't quite fit) when we try to address some scenarios encountered in real life: . multihoming . assembling a local network without necessarily having to contact an ISP to obtain address space (e.g., home net) . renumbering local networks without significant pain . working with wireless networks, where the concept of "link" can be quite fuzzy Some proposed solutions are challenged in terms of: . providing referential integrity - how is referential integrity maintained when identifiers are not globally unique or are overloaded? . choosing between different identifiers for an object which has different "reachability" and the reachability is context-dependent . security/transiting trust in layered address resolution . providing solutions that work across all layers of the stack and all areas - how do we find a solution that is great for routing but also great for security? The purpose of this mailing list is to identify and clarify the types of problems we are encountering with the current architecture, and to debate the merits of approaches that: . provide scoping at the IP layer . provide scoping at some other (single) layer . provide new addressing paradigms that span several layers Out of scope for this discussion list are: . discussions of specific proposed "solutions" (except as illustrations for discussing problem types, and merits of general approaches) --------------050204010607090205060401-- --------------ms040501050904090605080209 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJUDCC AwYwggJvoAMCAQICAwpxijANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNV BAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUx HTAbBgNVBAsTFENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVl bWFpbCBSU0EgMjAwMC44LjMwMB4XDTAzMDczMDAyMDkyOFoXDTA0MDcyOTAyMDkyOFowRjEf MB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEjMCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUamFsdG1h bkBjb2x1bWJpYS5lZHUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDBtDG6ZyGA sK+rZOfKPKGBn6oCTLYSLk/mpeX9QTmTG71qh308KUeN35qqoRXjLvscfw6NPOYXiuxE/RqL sx7WKEnK3C4gzzpioCTX1b7o4M7YbpvCRBFPE9Jgsd0yz2EN+mk/pPuK1GP+iQNot2m4A56A aPe6F5T25GqffU535GNIdAtWPao6wHcOm17se25ny/TNzb9mlA4UzYl9XP7MF1fkpJyaDDAy DNNTSSjxBdPVs2EaYq1p/xadXbIpysQiySXAxoeiZusgJopRHLcBsBmmY9QVD4QnUqZVmfJ5 f1CiNri5vlexKCmdFSrxMLuoLr4EQZCECdusp6ZnIt75AgMBAAGjMTAvMB8GA1UdEQQYMBaB FGphbHRtYW5AY29sdW1iaWEuZWR1MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEA DPKe/CuAgEUxsrPskJQx2fL6soAEG2iqrqOGIRREHDaXWDBNMEWEbOEMLvh3+yhqHOUc9x3r 2IfsP/XHnujaqsMVXLagokVTnpPN675wv8LZ8hLHblLnykaTCq6RZpVskh2iAiJwpYMcKNF6 jyYaQyGHBGT3PK8uVGVCG4Pp9k4wggMGMIICb6ADAgECAgMKcYowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAw gZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUg VG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczEo MCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMDAeFw0wMzA3MzAwMjA5 MjhaFw0wNDA3MjkwMjA5MjhaMEYxHzAdBgNVBAMTFlRoYXd0ZSBGcmVlbWFpbCBNZW1iZXIx IzAhBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWFGphbHRtYW5AY29sdW1iaWEuZWR1MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAwbQxumchgLCvq2TnyjyhgZ+qAky2Ei5P5qXl/UE5kxu9aod9PClH jd+aqqEV4y77HH8OjTzmF4rsRP0ai7Me1ihJytwuIM86YqAk19W+6ODO2G6bwkQRTxPSYLHd Ms9hDfppP6T7itRj/okDaLdpuAOegGj3uheU9uRqn31Od+RjSHQLVj2qOsB3Dpte7HtuZ8v0 zc2/ZpQOFM2JfVz+zBdX5KScmgwwMgzTU0ko8QXT1bNhGmKtaf8WnV2yKcrEIsklwMaHombr ICaKURy3AbAZpmPUFQ+EJ1KmVZnyeX9Qoja4ub5XsSgpnRUq8TC7qC6+BEGQhAnbrKemZyLe +QIDAQABozEwLzAfBgNVHREEGDAWgRRqYWx0bWFuQGNvbHVtYmlhLmVkdTAMBgNVHRMBAf8E AjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAAzynvwrgIBFMbKz7JCUMdny+rKABBtoqq6jhiEURBw2 l1gwTTBFhGzhDC74d/soahzlHPcd69iH7D/1x57o2qrDFVy2oKJFU56Tzeu+cL/C2fISx25S 58pGkwqukWaVbJIdogIicKWDHCjReo8mGkMhhwRk9zyvLlRlQhuD6fZOMIIDODCCAqGgAwIB AgIQZkVyt8x09c9jdkWE0C6RATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTAT BgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lv bjEkMCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkB FhxwZXJzb25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAwMDgzMDAwMDAwMFoXDTA0MDgy NzIzNTk1OVowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNV BAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMDCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEA3jMypmPHCSVFPtJueCdngcXaiBmClw7jRCmKYzUq bXA8+tyu9+50bzC8M5B/+TRxoKNtmPHDT6Jl2w36S/HW3WGl+YXNVZo1Gp2Sdagnrthy+boC 9tewkd4c6avgGAOofENCUFGHgzzwObSbVIoTh/+zm51JZgAtCYnslGvpoWkCAwEAAaNOMEww KQYDVR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDEtMjk3MBIGA1UdEwEB/wQI MAYBAf8CAQAwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBADGxS0dd+QFx5fVTbF15 1j2YwCYTYoEipxL4IpXoG0m3J3sEObr85vIk65H6vewNKjj3UFWobPcNrUwbvAP0teuiR59s ogxYjTFCCRFssBpp0SsSskBdavl50OouJd2K5PzbDR+dAvNa28o89kTqJmmHf0iezqWf54TY yWJirQXGMYID1TCCA9ECAQEwgZowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJu IENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIw MDAuOC4zMAIDCnGKMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggIPMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMTAxNTE1NDYzOVowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFJ+ow9AQ3XfU Ch9Yrr+DoJnsvJVYMFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGrBgkrBgEEAYI3 EAQxgZ0wgZowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNV BAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMAIDCnGK MIGtBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBnaCBmjCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rl cm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUxHTAbBgNVBAsT FENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBSU0Eg MjAwMC44LjMwAgMKcYowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEARSlgCQH+mX/+qjf3Tmq7wqpNFzjt YiyYeALJf+Oo9mm9VbnqZ+FZvib5SIaLP6WqFWVkANWRmXQvhDE44ZCHJCBmGkkO+coyjAfx wSo/Xz0xk409lOkl3yef8PGoUH4IEmD/ou0kQNXTHBkznHkO+xOlHKYwus4DjBdCHROMPQ1a Mt0/PeZ1pFf7OY0dpzZ6sQZKZ9jqwBms9EjUYu/rZGcICY8p5hyAuPY8ibOJm7h9jedEi7ju FE7ZGoqASLZp6KNJSGj5lPF/7OYbEXskUgTLehDU1PLBr5bOTNPaMzvXwEwtc1t3kL4BJ7zY imekkicl6sCp74jXFfXjr0N6qwAAAAAAAA== --------------ms040501050904090605080209-- _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 12:54:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08958 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oua-00044I-In for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FGsCll015632 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oua-000443-CT for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08948 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ouY-0007N2-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ouX-0007Mz-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ouO-00042r-RK; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:54:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9otT-00041h-K8 for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:53:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08907 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9otR-0007M3-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:53:01 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9otR-0007M0-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:53:01 -0400 Received: from engmail2sun.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.144.134.19]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FGqtPh008256; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phys-mpkmaila (phys-mpkmaila.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.18.131]) by engmail2sun.Eng.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9FGqtru013402; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roam (roam.Eng.Sun.COM [152.70.8.108]) by mpkmail.eng.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Apr 2 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMT008JW5K7WH@mpkmail.eng.sun.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:52:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Yeager Subject: Re: [P2Prg] [Fwd: Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture] In-reply-to: Your message with ID <3F8D6BDF.9090902@columbia.edu> To: Jeffrey Altman Cc: p2p-irtf Reply-to: Bill Yeager Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Looks like there is overlap. I'm not sure if the goals are the same though. Bill The purpose of this mailing list is to identify and clarify the types of problems we are encountering with the current architecture, and to debate the merits of approaches that: . provide scoping at the IP layer . provide scoping at some other (single) layer . provide new addressing paradigms that span several layers _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 16:30:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22354 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9sHs-0007R6-93 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:28 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FKUSGe028477 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9sHr-0007PE-UQ for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22327 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9sHp-0003Mb-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9sHp-0003MY-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:25 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9sHS-0007Mf-35; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9sHO-0007MM-VF for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:29:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22264 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9sHN-0003M2-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:29:57 -0400 Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu ([128.59.59.203] ident=cu41754) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9sHL-0003Lz-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:29:56 -0400 Received: from columbia.edu (66-108-138-151.nyc.rr.com [66.108.138.151]) (user=jaltman mech=PLAIN bits=0) by brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9FKTjtK026897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8DAE38.80205@columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:29:44 -0700 From: Jeffrey Altman Reply-To: p2p-irtf Organization: Columbia University in the City of New York User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: p2p-irtf Subject: Re: [P2Prg] [Fwd: Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms010606030707040108000508" X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010606030707040108000508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clearly they are not solving the whole P2P equation. However, they are attempting to restore end to end connectivity as well as break the address bindings. So in a sense they are looking at forming overlay networks. What they appear not to be doing are addressing questions of group contexts for identity, authorization, service provisioning, and network virtualization. Jeff Bill Yeager wrote: >Looks like there is overlap. I'm not sure if the goals are the same though. > >Bill > > The purpose of this mailing list is to identify and clarify the types of > problems we are encountering with the current architecture, and > to debate the merits of approaches that: > > . provide scoping at the IP layer > . provide scoping at some other (single) layer > . provide new addressing paradigms that span several layers > > --------------ms010606030707040108000508 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJUDCC AwYwggJvoAMCAQICAwpxijANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNV BAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUx HTAbBgNVBAsTFENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVl bWFpbCBSU0EgMjAwMC44LjMwMB4XDTAzMDczMDAyMDkyOFoXDTA0MDcyOTAyMDkyOFowRjEf MB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEjMCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUamFsdG1h bkBjb2x1bWJpYS5lZHUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDBtDG6ZyGA sK+rZOfKPKGBn6oCTLYSLk/mpeX9QTmTG71qh308KUeN35qqoRXjLvscfw6NPOYXiuxE/RqL sx7WKEnK3C4gzzpioCTX1b7o4M7YbpvCRBFPE9Jgsd0yz2EN+mk/pPuK1GP+iQNot2m4A56A aPe6F5T25GqffU535GNIdAtWPao6wHcOm17se25ny/TNzb9mlA4UzYl9XP7MF1fkpJyaDDAy DNNTSSjxBdPVs2EaYq1p/xadXbIpysQiySXAxoeiZusgJopRHLcBsBmmY9QVD4QnUqZVmfJ5 f1CiNri5vlexKCmdFSrxMLuoLr4EQZCECdusp6ZnIt75AgMBAAGjMTAvMB8GA1UdEQQYMBaB FGphbHRtYW5AY29sdW1iaWEuZWR1MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEA DPKe/CuAgEUxsrPskJQx2fL6soAEG2iqrqOGIRREHDaXWDBNMEWEbOEMLvh3+yhqHOUc9x3r 2IfsP/XHnujaqsMVXLagokVTnpPN675wv8LZ8hLHblLnykaTCq6RZpVskh2iAiJwpYMcKNF6 jyYaQyGHBGT3PK8uVGVCG4Pp9k4wggMGMIICb6ADAgECAgMKcYowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAw gZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUg VG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczEo MCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMDAeFw0wMzA3MzAwMjA5 MjhaFw0wNDA3MjkwMjA5MjhaMEYxHzAdBgNVBAMTFlRoYXd0ZSBGcmVlbWFpbCBNZW1iZXIx IzAhBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWFGphbHRtYW5AY29sdW1iaWEuZWR1MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAwbQxumchgLCvq2TnyjyhgZ+qAky2Ei5P5qXl/UE5kxu9aod9PClH jd+aqqEV4y77HH8OjTzmF4rsRP0ai7Me1ihJytwuIM86YqAk19W+6ODO2G6bwkQRTxPSYLHd Ms9hDfppP6T7itRj/okDaLdpuAOegGj3uheU9uRqn31Od+RjSHQLVj2qOsB3Dpte7HtuZ8v0 zc2/ZpQOFM2JfVz+zBdX5KScmgwwMgzTU0ko8QXT1bNhGmKtaf8WnV2yKcrEIsklwMaHombr ICaKURy3AbAZpmPUFQ+EJ1KmVZnyeX9Qoja4ub5XsSgpnRUq8TC7qC6+BEGQhAnbrKemZyLe +QIDAQABozEwLzAfBgNVHREEGDAWgRRqYWx0bWFuQGNvbHVtYmlhLmVkdTAMBgNVHRMBAf8E AjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAAzynvwrgIBFMbKz7JCUMdny+rKABBtoqq6jhiEURBw2 l1gwTTBFhGzhDC74d/soahzlHPcd69iH7D/1x57o2qrDFVy2oKJFU56Tzeu+cL/C2fISx25S 58pGkwqukWaVbJIdogIicKWDHCjReo8mGkMhhwRk9zyvLlRlQhuD6fZOMIIDODCCAqGgAwIB AgIQZkVyt8x09c9jdkWE0C6RATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTAT BgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lv bjEkMCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkB FhxwZXJzb25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAwMDgzMDAwMDAwMFoXDTA0MDgy NzIzNTk1OVowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNV BAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMDCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEA3jMypmPHCSVFPtJueCdngcXaiBmClw7jRCmKYzUq bXA8+tyu9+50bzC8M5B/+TRxoKNtmPHDT6Jl2w36S/HW3WGl+YXNVZo1Gp2Sdagnrthy+boC 9tewkd4c6avgGAOofENCUFGHgzzwObSbVIoTh/+zm51JZgAtCYnslGvpoWkCAwEAAaNOMEww KQYDVR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDEtMjk3MBIGA1UdEwEB/wQI MAYBAf8CAQAwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBADGxS0dd+QFx5fVTbF15 1j2YwCYTYoEipxL4IpXoG0m3J3sEObr85vIk65H6vewNKjj3UFWobPcNrUwbvAP0teuiR59s ogxYjTFCCRFssBpp0SsSskBdavl50OouJd2K5PzbDR+dAvNa28o89kTqJmmHf0iezqWf54TY yWJirQXGMYID1TCCA9ECAQEwgZowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJu IENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIw MDAuOC4zMAIDCnGKMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggIPMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMTAxNTIwMjk0NFowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFAmlobvQ58XN mqALrSNvxhRel56pMFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGrBgkrBgEEAYI3 EAQxgZ0wgZowgZIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNV BAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEPMA0GA1UEChMGVGhhd3RlMR0wGwYDVQQLExRDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczEoMCYGA1UEAxMfUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgUlNBIDIwMDAuOC4zMAIDCnGK MIGtBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBnaCBmjCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rl cm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUxHTAbBgNVBAsT FENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBSU0Eg MjAwMC44LjMwAgMKcYowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAdzoTiC3noRTNVga6Iro8W8e3JwRT jNcaxyXi0E5oQgwhlSpfubBg2dcxQu12t0r76Dep5XPhRGKA4Z6mywk59xaaCQQd7l6fOZdD j+gmAQcGKWO6ozDdw4HIUr6oQup+FbCsxk+UXYWeclXkIwGv2JVDGoTHIkK7qJbAAOY661xf KEHdRLws1uCG0mG0pI5VisdbHWLsZdn5F2EsCIJ2YMzmbXj41SQa7ZPOFHju09LptnF2WMJB k69YqS5lwot8eID+W3fGyornRTvMvvH+vHnj69JgGAaDffAUOW6i6ti+8eR1ltu9/dkSs/VK jojAWM/zqLcY+k+svtrBFULx2AAAAAAAAA== --------------ms010606030707040108000508-- _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 17:27:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24513 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9tAc-0001eC-M5 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:27:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FLR2Ws006326 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:27:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9tAc-0001dx-Gj for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:27:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24502 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9tAa-00044G-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:27:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9tAZ-00044D-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:26:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9tAa-0001cz-6f; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:27:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9t9i-0001bT-0x for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:26:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24482 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9t9f-00043p-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:26:03 -0400 Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.42.14]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9t9f-00043M-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:26:03 -0400 Received: from engmail2sun.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.144.134.19]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9FLPXxA023121 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phys-mpkmaila (phys-mpkmaila.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.18.131]) by engmail2sun.Eng.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9FLPXru020983 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roam (roam.Eng.Sun.COM [152.70.8.108]) by mpkmail.eng.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Apr 2 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMT00FXKI6K4E@mpkmail.eng.sun.com> for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Yeager Subject: Re: [P2Prg] [Fwd: Open architecture discussion list -- Scoped Address Architecture] In-reply-to: Your message with ID <3F8DAE38.80205@columbia.edu> To: p2p-irtf Reply-to: Bill Yeager Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT | Clearly they are not solving the whole P2P equation. However, they are | attempting to restore end to end connectivity as well as break the | address bindings. So in a sense they are looking at forming overlay | networks. Yep. Agreed. I am curious to exactly where all of that fits in with IP.V6 which if fully deployed could restore end-to-end connectivity. In any case, I don't see a conflict with what we are doing for overlays. What interests me even more is how they will evolve the routing protocols for these addresses they are thinking about proposing. Bill _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 22:46:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04457 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9y9X-0007B7-O3 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9G2kFhh027593 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9y9X-0007Ax-Em for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04444 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9y9T-0007Av-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9y9T-0007As-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9y9J-00079n-UY; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9y90-00079G-97 for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:45:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04432 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9y8w-0007Af-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:45:38 -0400 Received: from mordor.cerego.co.jp ([210.158.200.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9y8v-0007AS-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:45:38 -0400 Received: from CEREGO_EXCHANGE.cerego.co.jp (optional02.cerego.co.jp [192.168.2.1]) by mordor.cerego.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF35F73C9 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:44:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from neurogrid.com (frodo.cerego.co.jp [192.168.2.3]) by CEREGO_EXCHANGE.cerego.co.jp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SX2SDQYF; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:55 +0900 Message-ID: <3F8E062A.5040907@neurogrid.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:44:58 +0900 From: Sam Joseph Reply-To: sam@neurogrid.com Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: p2p-irtf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-Information: Verified by MailScanner X-MailScanner: STATUS-CLEAN X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1, required 5, AWL 0.00, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA 0.00, X_ACCEPT_LANG -0.10) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [P2Prg] Wiki Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Sam Joseph here. Great to meet all of you who attended the 1st P2Prg meeting last Monday. Sorry that I wasn't able to hang out afterwards and get to know you guys better - too many deadlines this week - hopefully we'll have more social time next meeting. Anyway so as I mentioned at the meeting I have some spare wiki space that we can use if we feel so inclined - I started a little page at the following location: http://www.neurogrid.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/PeerToPeerResearchGroup It's not much at the moment, but I thought it better to put up something. I have a lot to work on this week preparing a paper to summarise some different p2p simulators (including my own simulator software), so it might be a couple of days before I can really add much to this page - but then this is a wiki - feel free to add whatever you like. At the moment the layout is not fancy, but I have found that Twiki is pretty good at supporting multiple users, image uploads, various html and wiki formatting etc. If the wiki becomes a popular location I can add some of the layout plugins that will give us better overall navigation. Anyways, you may also be interested in another part of the wiki, something that has grown out of the decentralization mailing list to track different p2p related conferences: http://www.neurogrid.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/PeerToPeerConferences Also, as I mentioned in the meeting I wrote a summary of different meta-data strategies for p2p systems, which is the 2nd publication in the following page (apologies for the dodgy English in the abstract): http://www.neurogrid.net/php/publications.php and I have another review paper on p2p reputation systems in the planning stages. Looking forward to getting some P2Prg ideas on paper ..., or as ascii, or ...anyways we'll see what develops. CHEERS> SAM _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 16:34:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22999 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAEp6-0000ru-4F for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GKYGeO003332 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAEp5-0000rd-UP for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22993 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAEp3-0002DG-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAEp3-0002DC-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAEoq-0000pv-H9; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:34:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAEoK-0000oy-WF for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22972 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAEoI-0002Cq-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:27 -0400 Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAEoI-0002Cg-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:33:26 -0400 Received: from engmail1mpk.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.11.21]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9GKWtUP029386 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phys-mpkmaila (phys-mpkmaila.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.18.131]) by engmail1mpk.Eng.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9GKWpDS017314 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roam (roam.Eng.Sun.COM [152.70.8.108]) by mpkmail.eng.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Apr 2 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMV00MQOAEUTT@mpkmail.eng.sun.com> for p2prg@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Yeager To: p2prg Reply-to: Bill Yeager Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [P2Prg] Kickoff meeting Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, We had an excellent turnout, 16 total attendees, and made very good progress towards laying out research tracks for the group as a whole. The meeting itself was enthusiastic, and had its share of controversy and disagreements. What else would one expect from passionate researchers! After the attendees consoladate their notes, a call for participants for the research tracks we have selected will be formulated, and sent to the list as a whole for comments and possible additions or changes. We have tentatively set a date for a second meeting during the early part of April, 2004. Although most of you missed the meeting, we have about 325 members on our mailing list, you are *all* encouraged to contribute to the research. We realize that this is a spare time hobby for most of you but even small contributions are crucial to this RG's success. Thanks, Bill and Bobby _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 04:49:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA10510 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABsCW-0004fO-VT for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9L8nC8S017938 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABsCW-0004fD-7A for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA10504 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABsCT-0001AR-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABsCS-0001AM-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABsCL-0004bD-1c; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABsBt-0004Wy-VW for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:48:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA10499 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABsBq-0001AJ-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:48:30 -0400 Received: from thoth.sbs.de ([192.35.17.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABsBp-0001AE-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:48:30 -0400 Received: from mail1.siemens.de (mail1.siemens.de [139.23.33.14]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9L8mTK20971 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:48:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from blues.mchh.siemens.de (blues.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.204.206]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9L8mRr05794 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:48:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mchh273e.mchh.siemens.de (mchh273e.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.200.83]) by blues.mchh.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01940 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mchh273e.mchh.siemens.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id <45MNP5P1>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:47:34 +0200 Message-ID: <5BE5F1117AEDD5118BFC0000D11EA39CC8C010@blns205e.bln.icn.siemens.de> From: Andersen Frank-Uwe To: "'p2prg@ietf.org'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:47:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [P2Prg] P2P in mobile cellular environments Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hello all, some time ago on this list, I have raised the issue of P2P aspects in mobile cellular environments, i.e. special constraints and requirements that need to be considered today and, more importantly, in the future. Since I could not attend the group meeting, may I ask you, Jeffrey, Bill, (or Mauricio or Chuck?) to put this on the research directions list that is currently evolving. I am not talking about things like administrative (e.g. the current provider practice of IP data blocking between mobile devices) or economic issues (e.g. today's pricing for mobile data connections). Instead, I am talking about principal issues for P2P data transmission in mobile cellular environments that will always be there: high delay/round trip times (2x involvement of air interfaces) and limited bandwidth (compared to fix networks), heterogeneous access networks (expected for beyond 3G mobile networks), multihoming, and, last but not least, the relation towards ad-hoc mobile networks. I believe that there is indeed a considerable field for research, and it would be great if some of it could be added to the research track list. Frank-Uwe Andersen -- Frank-Uwe Andersen Siemens AG Product Oriented Research - Networking Berlin _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 13:55:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28214 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC0iv-0001HY-8V for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LHtDhS004922 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC0iv-0001HI-0b for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28205 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC0is-0006k3-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC0ir-0006jx-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC0il-0001DJ-Ef; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABzjY-0007nV-80 for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:51:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26171 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABzjW-0005vq-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:51:46 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABzjV-0005vn-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:51:46 -0400 Received: from engmail1mpk.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.11.21]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LGpjPh029784; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phys-mpkmaila (phys-mpkmaila.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.18.131]) by engmail1mpk.Eng.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9LGpeDS014393; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roam (roam.Eng.Sun.COM [152.70.8.108]) by mpkmail.eng.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Apr 2 2002)) with SMTP id <0HN400IHD9I85F@mpkmail.eng.sun.com>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:51:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Yeager Subject: Re: [P2Prg] P2P in mobile cellular environments In-reply-to: Your message with ID <5BE5F1117AEDD5118BFC0000D11EA39CC8C010@blns205e.bln.icn.siemens.de> To: Andersen Frank-Uwe Cc: "'p2prg@ietf.org'" Reply-to: Bill Yeager Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT | Instead, I am talking about principal issues for P2P data transmission in | mobile cellular environments that will always be there: high delay/round | trip times (2x involvement of air interfaces) and limited bandwidth | (compared to fix networks), heterogeneous access networks (expected for | beyond 3G mobile networks), multihoming, and, last but not least, the | relation towards ad-hoc mobile networks. Hi Frank-Uwe, You are correct that these issues need to be researched. Are you interesting in leading such a subgroup's discussion? I can contribute a little here since I've done lots of work in the past with these networks too. Bill _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 13:55:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28229 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC0iv-0001Hr-Sd for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LHtDau004941 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC0iu-0001HB-VW for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28203 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC0is-0006k1-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC0ir-0006jw-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC0ik-0001Ce-O3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:55:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9xZJ-0005ky-EN for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:08:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03225 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9xZF-0006ge-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:08:46 -0400 Received: from mordor.cerego.co.jp ([210.158.200.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9xZE-0006gO-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:08:45 -0400 Received: from CEREGO_EXCHANGE.cerego.co.jp (optional02.cerego.co.jp [192.168.2.1]) by mordor.cerego.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9AC73C9 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:07:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from yha.att.ne.jp (frodo.cerego.co.jp [192.168.2.3]) by CEREGO_EXCHANGE.cerego.co.jp with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SX2SDQXW; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:06:59 +0900 Message-ID: <3F8DFD84.3010500@yha.att.ne.jp> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:08:04 +0900 From: Sam Joseph Reply-To: sam@neurogrid.com Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: p2p-irtf References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-Information: Verified by MailScanner X-MailScanner: STATUS-CLEAN X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.4, required 5, AWL 0.00, IN_REP_TO -0.50, REFERENCES -0.50, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA 0.00, X_ACCEPT_LANG -0.10) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [P2Prg] Wiki Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Sam Joseph here. Great to meet all of you who attended the 1st P2Prg meeting last Monday. Sorry that I wasn't able to hang out afterwards and get to know you guys better - too many deadlines this week - hopefully we'll have more social time next meeting. Anyway so as I mentioned at the meeting I have some spare wiki space that we can use if we feel so inclined - I started a little page at the following location: http://www.neurogrid.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/PeerToPeerResearchGroup It's not much at the moment, but I thought it better to put up something. I have a lot to work on this week preparing a paper to summarise some different p2p simulators (including my own simulator software), so it might be a couple of days before I can really add much to this page - but then this is a wiki - feel free to add whatever you like. At the moment the layout is not fancy, but I have found that Twiki is pretty good at supporting multiple users, image uploads, various html and wiki formatting etc. If the wiki becomes a popular location I can add some of the layout plugins that will give us better overall navigation. Anyways, you may also be interested in another part of the wiki, something that has grown out of the decentralization mailing list to track different p2p related conferences: http://www.neurogrid.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/PeerToPeerConferences Also, as I mentioned in the meeting I wrote a summary of different meta-data strategies for p2p systems, which is the 2nd publication in the following page (apologies for the dodgy English in the abstract): http://www.neurogrid.net/php/publications.php and I have another review paper on p2p reputation systems in the planning stages. Looking forward to getting some P2Prg ideas on paper ..., or as ascii, or ...anyways we'll see what develops. CHEERS> SAM _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 17:24:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10559 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3zA-0003VV-RT for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LLOCMP013475 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3z9-0003Uj-IQ for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10519 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC3z7-0002V5-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC3z6-0002V2-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3yy-0003Ru-A1; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:24:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC2gg-0001Ag-Hr for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:01:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04832 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC2ge-0000cd-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:01:00 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC2gd-0000cQ-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:00:59 -0400 Received: from phys-d3-ha21sca-1 ([129.145.155.163]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LK0uPj000737 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Sun.com (dhcp-usca21-191-36.red.iplanet.com [192.18.191.36]) by ha21sca-mail1.sfbay.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HN4009VXI9LME@ha21sca-mail1.sfbay.sun.com> for p2prg@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:43:33 -0700 From: Kuldip Singh Pabla Subject: Re: [P2Prg] P2P in mobile cellular environments To: Bill Yeager Cc: Andersen Frank-Uwe , "'p2prg@ietf.org'" Reply-to: Kuldipsingh.Pabla@Sun.COM Message-id: <3F958C65.3030306@Sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021003 References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Frank-Uwe, I have initiated a similar project under JXTA.org. Its about Infrastructure-less (ad hoc) P2P using constrained devices such as smart phones, PDAs etc. Like Project JXTA, it is looking into multihome interfaces. You may want to visit http://jxme.jxta.org for more details. -Kuldip Bill Yeager wrote: > | Instead, I am talking about principal issues for P2P data transmission in > | mobile cellular environments that will always be there: high delay/round > | trip times (2x involvement of air interfaces) and limited bandwidth > | (compared to fix networks), heterogeneous access networks (expected for > | beyond 3G mobile networks), multihoming, and, last but not least, the > | relation towards ad-hoc mobile networks. > > Hi Frank-Uwe, > > You are correct that these issues need to be researched. Are you interesting > in leading such a subgroup's discussion? > > I can contribute a little here since I've done lots of work in the past with > these networks too. > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > P2prg mailing list > P2prg@irtf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 10:25:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25372 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgOs-0002ZO-Ru for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NEPI2e009877 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgOs-0002ZE-OF for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25324 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgOq-00019z-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgOq-00019v-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgOc-0002Ux-VV; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgO6-0002Q4-6W for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:24:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25267 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgO3-000194-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:24:27 -0400 Received: from goliath.siemens.de ([192.35.17.28]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgO3-000190-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:24:27 -0400 Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9NEOPF12278 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:24:25 +0200 (MEST) Received: from moody.mchh.siemens.de (moody.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.205.85]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9NEOPs17052 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:24:25 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mchh247e.mchh.siemens.de (mchh247e.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.200.57]) by moody.mchh.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20600 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:24:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mchh247e.mchh.siemens.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:23:32 +0200 Message-ID: <5BE5F1117AEDD5118BFC0000D11EA39CC8C035@blns205e.bln.icn.siemens.de> From: Andersen Frank-Uwe To: "'p2prg@ietf.org'" Subject: mobile-aware P2P opinion poll (was: [P2Prg] P2P in mobile cel lular environments) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:23:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hello all, in order to find supporters of a "mobile-aware" P2P research track / sub section of this group, may I kindly ask everybody on this list who are interested in this (see my previous mails) to send me a personal message (in order not to flood this list), indicating your interest/committment. I will try to wrap up the responses in about a weeks time and come to a decision. Btw.: There is a good chance for participation in an upcoming publication on P2P networks and services. The CfP is going to be sent to this list soon. Thank you, Frank-Uwe -- Frank-Uwe Andersen Siemens AG Berlin Frank-Uwe.Andersen at siemens dot com > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Bill Yeager [mailto:yeager@eng.sun.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Oktober 2003 18:52 > An: Andersen Frank-Uwe > Cc: 'p2prg@ietf.org' > Betreff: Re: [P2Prg] P2P in mobile cellular environments > > > | Instead, I am talking about principal issues for P2P data > transmission in > | mobile cellular environments that will always be there: > high delay/round > | trip times (2x involvement of air interfaces) and limited bandwidth > | (compared to fix networks), heterogeneous access networks > (expected for > | beyond 3G mobile networks), multihoming, and, last but not > least, the > | relation towards ad-hoc mobile networks. > > Hi Frank-Uwe, > > You are correct that these issues need to be researched. Are > you interesting > in leading such a subgroup's discussion? > > I can contribute a little here since I've done lots of work > in the past with > these networks too. > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > P2prg mailing list > P2prg@irtf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg > _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 31 13:57:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13191 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFeSJ-00033z-Kc for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9VIv7GC011771 for p2prg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFeSJ-00033m-H0 for p2prg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13173 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFeSH-0005D6-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:05 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFeSG-0005D2-00 for p2prg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFeSD-000318-5j; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:57:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFeRb-0002yT-Go for p2prg@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:56:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13122 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:56:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFeRZ-0005CD-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:56:21 -0500 Received: from goliath.siemens.de ([192.35.17.28]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFeRY-0005CA-00 for p2prg@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:56:20 -0500 Received: from mail3.siemens.de (mail3.siemens.de [139.25.208.14]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9VIuJF28310 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from blues.mchh.siemens.de (blues.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.204.206]) by mail3.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9VIuJd23685 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from mchh253e.mchh.siemens.de (mchh253e.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.200.63]) by blues.mchh.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01129 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:19 +0100 (MET) Received: by mchh253e.mchh.siemens.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:17 +0100 Message-ID: <5BE5F1117AEDD5118BFC0000D11EA39CC8C05A@blns205e.bln.icn.siemens.de> From: Andersen Frank-Uwe To: "'p2prg@ietf.org'" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:56:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C39FE0.A91963D0" Subject: [P2Prg] result of our little opinion+support poll Sender: p2prg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: p2prg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: p2prg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Peer-to-Peer Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39FE0.A91963D0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello all, I have by now collected a total of 17 responses to the opinion/support poll for a distinct research track on mobile p2p aspects. Thank you for your participation! Forgive me for not having personally replied to each email (I may still do so later). The answers can be split into three groups: Those who cannot wait to publish something, those who are supporting our case, and those that are "generally" interested. Without hurting anyone here too much, it can probably be said that the first group is the one we should conservatively count in for the work to be done - still these are 11 people with highly interesting backgrounds from academic institutions and the industry. This looks like a promising mixture. So we do indeed have, in my opinion, sufficient support for a dedicated research track inside of the main RG! I hope that we will be able to really define a detailed research track that keeps everyone interested. This has also been part of the feedback I received: "more details, and there will be more support"... That's it for the moment. Please let me find out more about how we can proceed formally. I will get in touch with Bill regarding this. Have a nice weekend, regards, Frank-Uwe -- Frank-Uwe Andersen Research & Concepts SIEMENS AG, Mobile Networks +49 (30) 386 33152 frank-uwe dot andersen at siemens dot com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39FE0.A91963D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable result of our little opinion+support poll

Hello all,

I have by now collected a total of 17 = responses to the opinion/support poll for a distinct research track on = mobile p2p aspects. Thank you for your participation! Forgive me for = not having personally replied to each email (I may still do so = later).

The answers can be split into three = groups: Those who cannot wait to publish something, those who are = supporting our case, and those that are "generally" = interested.

Without hurting anyone here too much, = it can probably be said that the first group is the one we should = conservatively count in for the work to be done - still these are 11 = people with highly interesting backgrounds from academic institutions = and the industry. This looks like a promising mixture.

So we do indeed have, in my opinion, = sufficient support for a dedicated research track inside of the main = RG!

I hope that we will be able to really = define a detailed research track that keeps everyone interested. This = has also been part of the feedback I received: "more details, and = there will be more support"...

That's it for the moment. Please let = me find out more about how we can proceed formally. I will get in touch = with Bill regarding this.

Have a nice weekend,
regards,

Frank-Uwe


--

Frank-Uwe Andersen
Research & Concepts

SIEMENS AG, Mobile Networks

+49 (30) 386 33152

frank-uwe dot andersen at siemens dot = com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C39FE0.A91963D0-- _______________________________________________ P2prg mailing list P2prg@irtf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2prg