From michaelc@IDSSOFTWARE.COM Sat Oct 1 17:10:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E611C21F8E77 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:10:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.64 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.64 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.641, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sjWaMImbbUlS for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpoutwbe02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpoutwbe02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [208.109.78.113]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C25821F8E26 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 12749 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2011 00:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gem-wbe34.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net) (64.202.189.30) by smtpoutwbe02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2011 00:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 30287 invoked by uid 99); 2 Oct 2011 00:13:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Originating-IP: 67.58.151.223 User-Agent: Web-Based Email 5.6.02 Message-Id: <20111001171319.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.9cb0be13e6.wbe@email00.secureserver.net> From: "Michael Chen" To: p2psip@ietf.org Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:13:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [P2PSIP] Question about base draft section 9.7.4.2 X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 00:10:24 -0000 Hi,=0A=0ASection "9.7.4.2 Refreshing finger table" of the base draft state= d=0Athat,=0A=0A "A finger table entry i is valid if it=0A is in the rang= e [ n+2^( 128-i ) , n+2^( 128-(i-1) )-1 ]."=0A=0AThis range seems suggest t= hat 'i' is an 1-based integer. However, in the=0A3rd paragraph, it refers t= o first entry of the finger table as=0A=0A "search through the finger tabl= e entries from i=3D0 and ..."=0A=0AThe text should declare the range of 'i'= in the first paragraph, so its=0Asecond sentence shall read:=0A=0A "A fin= ger table entry i is valid if it=0A is in the range [ n+2^(127-i) , n+2^(= 128-i)-1 ],=0A where i is in the range of [0, 127] inclusive."=0A=0AThank= s=0A=0A--Michael=0A From michaelc@IDSSOFTWARE.COM Fri Oct 7 11:39:17 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F5421F8B4A for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HcVdN0ME2J88 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpoutwbe01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpoutwbe01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [208.109.78.112]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F0A5021F8B3E for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31965 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2011 18:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (72.167.218.131) by smtpoutwbe01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2011 18:42:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 24548 invoked by uid 99); 7 Oct 2011 18:42:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Originating-IP: 12.175.188.225 User-Agent: Web-Based Email 5.6.03 Message-Id: <20111007114229.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.5ea3aed417.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> From: "Michael Chen" To: p2psip@ietf.org Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:42:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [P2PSIP] Base draft section 6.4.3.2 Stat Response Definition clarification X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 18:39:17 -0000 Hi,=0A=0AI believe the definition of hash_value should explicitly state the= hash=0Ais computed on the DataValue.value excluding its 32-bit length byte= s:=0A=0A hash_value=0A A digest using hash_algorithm on the value fi= eld of the=0A DataValue excluding its 4 leading length bytes.=0A=0AThe= 4 length bytes of DataValue.value is already represented in=0AMetaData.val= ue_length thus should not be part of the hash input.=0A=0AThanks=0A=0A--Mic= hael=0A From michael@voip.co.uk Fri Oct 7 11:51:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2321E21F844C for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:51:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oXle9toJSwyb for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na3sys009aog111.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog111.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A70AC21F87FA for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f173.google.com ([209.85.220.173]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob111.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:55:06 PDT Received: by mail-vx0-f173.google.com with SMTP id fl10so4201245vcb.32 for ; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:54:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.108.17 with SMTP id d17mr677236vcp.207.1318013698907; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.16.72 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:54:58 +0100 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: draft-ietf-p2psip-base@tools.ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [P2PSIP] Minor comments/typos on draft-ietf-p2psip-base-18 X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 18:51:54 -0000 Hi, I've got a few minor typos/corrections to p2psip-base-15 which I have been meaning to send. I've checked the diffs and they all still apply to -18 though. Section 3.3, second diagram The third arrow (from X to Z) is annotated as Dest=Z, X1 I think it should be marked 'Via X1, Dest=Z' instead, to make it consistent with the rules in 5.1.2. Section 5.3.1, first bullet of first bulleted list "It familiar" should be "It is familiar" Section 5.3.3, description of 'critical' "does not understand the message" should be "does not understand the extension" Section 5.3.3.1, first sentence "A peer" should be "A node" Section 5.3.4, item 2 "a Node-ID which is as close to or closer to the target" Isn't the notion of closeness topology-dependent, and so should be moved to the Chord section? A statement here about applying any topology-specific plausibility checking would then tie it in. Section 9.7.4.3, first paragraph The phrase "high odds" seems confusing here. Either "high probability" or "low odds" would seem closer in meaning to what I think this section is trying to say. Regards, Michael From davidbryan@gmail.com Thu Oct 13 13:29:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837DC21F8AC3 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bFoa9Pnwaf6V for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com (mail-qy0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB85121F8A64 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk32 with SMTP id 32so477652qyk.10 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=mLZzT+L/VSbuOGdEFonR2qhTgSqdx05cEAhv9rdEBNg=; b=wI5EfX+UI2wFuHlo0WpUbTAwZikKV447/O3dO8j+M+gJlVdvNedKt+JnyFc0TrL2dP trPkb6SsfZ9xCuBrrzM9ScvDpAkT7gFwYoZGSwCq9IAwHQEBNH3jqibIrcErN6X/xYUY iqOjjKK3hVJKd4TXjG5Cd/an+WrAMEx2+ZgRI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.215.142 with SMTP id he14mr1191686qcb.27.1318537766461; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: davidbryan@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.160.7 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:29:26 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: lE08C2q-lvXiEOJisfqZNXtkT9c Message-ID: From: "David A. Bryan" To: P2PSIP WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630f90b3161bc04af33ff1e Subject: [P2PSIP] TENTATIVE time/date for P2PSIP session X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 20:29:36 -0000 --00163630f90b3161bc04af33ff1e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For those who might be planing their trip (but do remember this may change as groups are shuffled around!!) we are currently scheduled for Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1520-1720. David --00163630f90b3161bc04af33ff1e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 For those who might be planing their trip (but do remember this may change as groups are shuffled around!!) we are currently scheduled for Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1520-1720.

David



--00163630f90b3161bc04af33ff1e-- From internet-drafts@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 17:25:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7514B21F848F; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.576 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.576 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RAwJ-weKX8fI; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F39F21F8486; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.60 Message-ID: <20111014002542.8686.49049.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:42 -0700 Cc: p2psip@ietf.org Subject: [P2PSIP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-p2psip-drr-00.txt X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 00:25:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer-to-Peer Session Initiation Proto= col Working Group of the IETF. Title : An extension to RELOAD to support Direct Response Routing Author(s) : Ning Zong Xingfeng Jiang Roni Even Yunfei Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-p2psip-drr-00.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2011-10-07 This document proposes an optional extension to RELOAD to support direct response routing mode. RELOAD recommends symmetric recursive routing for routing messages. The new optional extension provides a shorter route for responses reducing the overhead on intermediary peers and describes the potential cases where this extension can be used. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-drr-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-drr-00.txt From internet-drafts@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 17:25:55 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D17121F84CF; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.577 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.577 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KXS0pc5xZ4ck; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF3721F84B8; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.60 Message-ID: <20111014002555.8680.86852.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:25:55 -0700 Cc: p2psip@ietf.org Subject: [P2PSIP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-p2psip-rpr-00.txt X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 00:25:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer-to-Peer Session Initiation Proto= col Working Group of the IETF. Title : An extension to RELOAD to support Relay Peer Routing Author(s) : Ning Zong Xingfeng Jiang Roni Even Yunfei Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-p2psip-rpr-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2011-10-07 This document proposes an optional extension to RELOAD to support relay peer routing mode. RELOAD recommends symmetric recursive routing for routing messages. The new optional extension provides a shorter route for responses reducing the overhead on intermediary peers and describes the potential cases where this extension can be used. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-rpr-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-rpr-00.txt From petithug@acm.org Sun Oct 23 09:32:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7435D21F8ADE; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:32:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.322, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kCI3YDvf2sQY; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC2121F8564; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:616:213:d4ff:fe04:3e08] (shalmaneser.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:616:213:d4ff:fe04:3e08]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "petithug", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEB7720371; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:24:34 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EA4419B.1040908@acm.org> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:32:27 -0700 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20111010 Iceowl/1.0b2 Icedove/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vipr@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: P2PSIP Mailing List Subject: [P2PSIP] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-petithuguenin-vipr-proportional-quota-00.txt X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:32:49 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As instructed by our AD[1] after the meeting in Quebec City, I moved this draft back to the VIPR WG. The main change in this version is that the quota does not apply to replicas (this change was made after discussion with the developers of the only known deployed implementation of this algorithm). The reason is that because there can be huge difference in the fraction of the overlay owned by each peer, entries are likely to be lost during replication. Because the storing peer of the replication verifies that the source of the replication is valid, this should not create the possibility to store more entries than permitted by the quota mechanism (see section 6.4.1.1 of draft-ietf-p2psip-base). Changelog: o The quota does not apply to replicas. o Draft moved to VIPR WG. o Nits. [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/vipr/current/msg00040.html - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-petithuguenin-vipr-proportional-quota-00.txt Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:12:05 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Proportional Quota in REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD) Author(s) : Marc Petit-Huguenin Jonathan Rosenberg Cullen Jennings Filename : draft-petithuguenin-vipr-proportional-quota-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2011-10-23 This document defines an extension to RELOAD [I-D.ietf-p2psip-base] that limits the number of a specific kind element that can be stored by one RELOAD peer. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-petithuguenin-vipr-proportional-quota-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-petithuguenin-vipr-proportional-quota-00.txt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6kQZoACgkQ9RoMZyVa61fx8QCfYzU6JROPZIA1xaZqpTXyp2Hb AdsAmgNInBLZBRIj43SDKdR9ebESHSqm =qgYL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From prvs=271aab0c9=Alexander.Knauf@haw-hamburg.de Mon Oct 24 10:31:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18ACA21F8B6E for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:31:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FxVDCaZMoNW3 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de (mx3.haw-public.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.6.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE9B21F8AC3 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dehawshub01.mailcluster.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.200.36]) by mail3.is.haw-hamburg.de with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 24 Oct 2011 19:31:11 +0200 Received: from dehawscas02.mailcluster.haw-hamburg.de (141.22.200.34) by DEHAWSHUB01.mailcluster.haw-hamburg.de (141.22.200.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.358.0; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:31:12 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.102] (141.22.200.35) by haw-mailer.haw-hamburg.de (141.22.200.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.358.0; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:31:11 +0200 Message-ID: <4EA5A0E1.6070105@haw-hamburg.de> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:31:13 +0200 From: Alexander Knauf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: P2PSIP Mailing List References: <20111024171352.31303.35874.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20111024171352.31303.35874.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20111024171352.31303.35874.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [P2PSIP] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-knauf-p2psip-share-02.txt X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:31:14 -0000 Hi all, we updated our draft for Shared Resources (ShaRe) in RELOAD. Link: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knauf-p2psip-share-02 regards, Alexander A new version of I-D, draft-knauf-p2psip-share-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexander Knauf and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-knauf-p2psip-share Revision: 02 Title: A Usage for Shared Resources in RELOAD (ShaRe) Creation date: 2011-10-24 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 23 Abstract: This document defines a RELOAD Usage for managing shared write access to RELOAD Resources. Shared Resources in RELOAD (ShaRe) form a basic primitive for enabling various coordination and notification schemes among distributed peers. Access in ShaRe is controlled by a hierarchical trust delegation scheme maintained within an access list. A new USER-CHAIN-ACL access policy allows authorized peers to write a Shared Resource without owning its corresponding certificate. This specification also adds mechanisms to store Resources with a variable name which is useful whenever peer-independent rendezvous processes are required. The IETF Secretariat From davidbryan@gmail.com Mon Oct 24 16:08:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B09611E814C for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKbynb3aGFyt for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com (mail-qy0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C91611E813C for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk34 with SMTP id 34so2434728qyk.10 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=vmNS/YTOi2rnnNM4cxvdF8MtYXJofbTT7fjlHtVIdaA=; b=C+oJhAEsp4zWL1gZqyWhJJ8AbwlA6LEvQI1Slmj+BiyVFuqm+ahUNB4LPZ3Q/CQWna aWJJdQY0LybKe0oV5VehRzGX/1dD5fuhGhwxuGAuOGTdvC5LAbOzbEoAN8axsrDzluts fVBdV4ZQ2WA63jvXJjF3sn2CtfoCkRRQsHyM0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.100.218 with SMTP id z26mr5346851qcn.255.1319497684141; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: davidbryan@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.186.1 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:08:04 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zjhRIsgYczDZvenz9Id2MDc90dM Message-ID: From: "David A. Bryan" To: P2PSIP WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364edf86bec4c104b0137e9d Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] TENTATIVE time/date for P2PSIP session X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:08:05 -0000 --0016364edf86bec4c104b0137e9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Just as an FYI, we have now been moved a bit earlier, but still on Thursday (1300-1500). Should be the final agenda now. David On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:29 PM, David A. Bryan wrote: > For those who might be planing their trip (but do remember this may change > as groups are shuffled around!!) we are currently scheduled for Thursday, > Afternoon Session II 1520-1720. > > David > > > > --0016364edf86bec4c104b0137e9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just as an FYI, we have now been moved a bit earlier, but still on Thursday= (1300-1500). Should be the final agenda now.

David
<= br>
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:29 PM, David A. Bry= an <dbryan@ethe= rnot.org> wrote:
For those who might be planing their trip (= but do remember this may change as groups are shuffled around!!) we are cur= rently scheduled for Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1520-1720.

David




--0016364edf86bec4c104b0137e9d-- From peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Mon Oct 24 19:24:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCA911E80B8; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:24:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aLSaYyKgN4dL; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549C01F0C52; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 466213465113155; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:15:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 96241.4995755854; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:23:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p9P2NhB2076847; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:23:43 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn) To: , opsawg@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:23:31 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-10-25 10:23:44, Serialize complete at 2011-10-25 10:23:44 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 000D1EBE48257934_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn p9P2NhB2076847 Cc: David Harrington , meng.yu@zte.com.cn, hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 02:24:04 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 000D1EBE48257934_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCldlIGhhdmUgZG9uZSBtb3JlIHJlc2VhcmNoIG9uIHNlY3VyaXR5IGFuZCBvdGhlciBp c3N1ZXMgYmFzZWQgb24gRGF2aWQncyANCmNvbW1lbnRzLCBhbmQgdXBkYXRlZCBvdXIgZHJhZnQu DQoNClRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIGRyYWZ0OiANCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaWQvZHJhZnQtcGVuZy1wMnBzaXAtc25tcC0wMy50eHQNCg0KV2Ugd2VsY29tZSBhbnkgY29t bWVudHMhIFRoYW5rcyENCg0KDQpPdXIgYW5hbHlzaXMgb2YgRGF2aWQncyBjb21tZW50cyBhcyBm b2xsb3dzKGJsdWUgdGV4dCk6DQoNCjEpIFVzZSBTTk1QdjMgdGVybWlub2xvZ3kNCkFwcGFyZW50 bHksIHlvdSBjb21lIGZyb20gdGhlIFJFTE9BRCBzaWRlIG9mIHRoaW5ncywgbm90IHRoZSBTTk1Q 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Zm9yJm5ic3A7dmlydXNlcyZuYnNwO2FuZCZuYnNwO1NwYW0mbmJzcDtieSZuYnNwO1pURSZuYnNw O0FudGktU3BhbSZuYnNwO3N5c3RlbS4NCjwvcHJlPg== --=_alternative 000D1EBE48257934_=-- From galal.nasim.1971@hotmail.com Tue Oct 25 06:24:13 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6D921F8B28 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:24:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SARE_SUB_ENC_WIN1255=0.647] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ih3Z1PjzXG9U for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub0-omc1-s18.dub0.hotmail.com (dub0-omc1-s18.dub0.hotmail.com [157.55.0.217]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651EE21F8B09 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DUB113-DS31 ([157.55.0.237]) by dub0-omc1-s18.dub0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:24:11 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [77.190.5.184] X-Originating-Email: [galal.nasim.1971@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Galal Nasim To: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:23:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0094_01CC932A.1DB7B530" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 thread-index: AcyTGRRaM9zj5uuDRaSc5785rzIpQA== Content-Language: en-us X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2011 13:24:11.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[62455C40:01CC9319] Subject: [P2PSIP] =?windows-1255?q?Java_P2PSIP_implementation=FE=FE?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:27:29 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01CC932A.1DB7B530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, I'm a PhD student recruited into a new group intended to do research on P2PSIP security. One of our initial goals was to look for java P2PSIP implementations. I'd like to share the result here: There are 3 main Java implementations: Open source 1. University of Parma Kademlia dSIP. a. Development seems to be stopped (last updates in 2007). b. Based on P2P-over-SIP architecture (not adopted by the working group). Closed source 2. Ericsson Research Nomadiclab P2PSIP prototype. 3. Rhodes University OverCord. Does anybody know if there is a plan from Ericsson Research Nomadiclab or Rhodes University to open source there prototypes? And whether their implementations are similar to the RELOAD P2P transport protocol currently being finalized by the WG or not. Is there any other open source java implementation out there? Is there anybody working on adding P2PSIP capability to Jitsi (SIP Communicator)? Regards, Galal ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01CC932A.1DB7B530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Dear = All,

 

I'm a PhD student recruited into a new group = intended to do research on P2PSIP security. One of our initial goals was = to look for java P2PSIP implementations. I'd like to share the result = here:

 

There are 3 main Java = implementations:

 

Open = source

=A0=A0 1. University of = Parma Kademlia dSIP.

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 a. Development seems to be stopped = (last updates in 2007).

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 b. Based on P2P-over-SIP = architecture (not adopted by the working group).

Closed source

=A0=A0 2. Ericsson Research Nomadiclab P2PSIP = prototype.

=A0=A0 3. Rhodes = University OverCord.

 

Does = anybody know if there is a plan from Ericsson Research Nomadiclab or = Rhodes University to open source there prototypes? And whether their = implementations are similar to the RELOAD P2P transport protocol = currently being finalized by the WG or not.

 

Is = there any other open source java implementation out = there?

 

Is there anybody working on adding P2PSIP = capability to Jitsi (SIP Communicator)?

 

Regards,

Galal

 

------=_NextPart_000_0094_01CC932A.1DB7B530-- From petithug@acm.org Tue Oct 25 06:56:59 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE6321F8B08 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:56:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.092 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.092 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n56JH4Z5ScAQ for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B3D21F8B07 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:616:213:d4ff:fe04:3e08] (shalmaneser.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:616:213:d4ff:fe04:3e08]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "petithug", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88256204AD; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:48:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EA6C026.30601@acm.org> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:56:54 -0700 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20111010 Iceowl/1.0b2 Icedove/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Galal Nasim References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: p2psip@ietf.org Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] =?utf-8?q?Java_P2PSIP_implementation=E2=80=8F=E2=80=8F?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:56:59 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/25/2011 06:23 AM, Galal Nasim wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > I'm a PhD student recruited into a new group intended to do research on P2PSIP > security. One of our initial goals was to look for java P2PSIP implementations. > I'd like to share the result here: > > > > There are 3 main Java implementations: > > > > Open source > > 1. University of Parma Kademlia dSIP. > > a. Development seems to be stopped (last updates in 2007). > > b. Based on P2P-over-SIP architecture (not adopted by the working group). > > Closed source > > 2. Ericsson Research Nomadiclab P2PSIP prototype. > > 3. Rhodes University OverCord. > > > > Does anybody know if there is a plan from Ericsson Research Nomadiclab or Rhodes > University to open source there prototypes? And whether their implementations > are similar to the RELOAD P2P transport protocol currently being finalized by > the WG or not. > > > > Is there any other open source java implementation out there? My implementation (which is still incomplete) is released under a free software license. All the information are on my blog, see the signature below. > > > > Is there anybody working on adding P2PSIP capability to Jitsi (SIP Communicator)? > You should contact Emil Ivov for that. I would also recommend subscribing to the reload mailing list, which is the place to talk about RELOAD implementations: http://implementers.org/mailman/listinfo/reload - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Personal email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Professional email: petithug@acm.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6mwCQACgkQ9RoMZyVa61eGGACfWoG0eJ73j580ag4W4N9SYwep xGAAn0IYuX+6BgjrRsxI7dWWyjhW3PZE =mzx/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ietfc@btconnect.com Tue Oct 25 08:20:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41DEC21F83EF; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 08:20:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.072 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.072 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.073, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jSrnxI5TJIaw; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 08:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.btconnect.com (c2bthomr09.btconnect.com [213.123.20.127]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E64021F8BBF; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 08:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host86-163-151-98.range86-163.btcentralplus.com (HELO pc6) ([86.163.151.98]) by c2bthomr09.btconnect.com with SMTP id EYR01884; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:20:46 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <048b01cc9320$97727900$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "t.petch" To: , , References: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:15:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Fair-1, source=Queried, refid=tid=0001.0A0B0303.4EA6D3CE.0008, actions=tag X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=9/50, refid=2.7.2:2011.10.25.143623:17:9.535, ip=86.163.151.98, rules=__HAS_MSGID, __OUTLOOK_MSGID_1, __SANE_MSGID, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CHAR_CHINESE_CT, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN, __CTE, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, CN_TLD, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __LINES_OF_YELLING, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS, BODY_SIZE_2000_2999, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS, RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, LOCALE_CHINESE, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=c2bthomr09.btconnect.com X-Junkmail-Signature-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A0B020A.4EA6D3D2.0191,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2010-07-22 22:03:31, dmn=2009-09-10 00:05:08, mode=multiengine X-Junkmail-IWF: false X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:08:14 -0700 Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] [OPSAWG] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:20:53 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: ; To: ; ; ; Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:23 AM > We have done more research on security and other issues based on David's > comments, and updated our draft. > > This is the new version of draft: > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peng-p2psip-snmp-03.txt > > We welcome any comments! Thanks! > > Our analysis of David's comments as follows(blue text): > > 1) Use SNMPv3 terminology > Apparently, you come from the RELOAD side of things, not the SNMP > side. > Your text doesn't use the common SNMP terminology for various > SNMP-related things. > You will have a better chance of success if you describe SNMP-related > things using the normal SNMPv3 terminology. > This isn't critical; your ideas seem reasonable, but since you don't > use the standard terminology, you might mean slightly different things > than what it would mean if you used the standard terminology. > > (I don't have a RELOAD background, so some of my comments might seem > wrong because I don't know the RELOAD concepts and terminology. Now > you'll understand my point ;-) > > PYL: We have updated the draft using SNMP terminology. As we are not SNMP > experts, some terminology may not be accurate. We will try to improve this > over time. You are indeed using SNMP terminology, but I struggle to see how its usage is the same as in RFC3411. RELOAD defines a messaging network, on top of which run applications, which RELOAD calls Usages, so when you define an SNMP Usage, you would appear to be discarding most of an Architecture for SNMP as defined in RFC3411, perhaps providing instead a gateway for functionality such as that specified in RFC3414; or perhaps not, I do not find the I-D clear on this. Thus you have Application +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ | SIP | | XMPP | | SNMP | ... | Usage | | Usage | | Usage | +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ ------------------------------------------- Messaging API RELOAD but elsewhere you say ' SNMP entities talk to each other using SNMP protocol on dedicated connections' which is rather different. The I-D reads more like a wish list of requirements, than an overview, architecture or framework. Or perhaps it is all beyond me:-( Tom Petch From michaelc@IDSSOFTWARE.COM Tue Oct 25 16:04:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4722821F8B6D for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:04:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fh42Hv3Kdikp for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpoutwbe04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpoutwbe04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [208.109.78.206]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EEB821F8B71 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3417 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2011 23:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (72.167.218.135) by smtpoutwbe04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2011 23:04:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 26886 invoked by uid 99); 25 Oct 2011 23:04:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Originating-IP: 12.175.188.225 User-Agent: Web-Based Email 5.6.03 Message-Id: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> From: "Michael Chen" To: p2psip@ietf.org Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:04:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [P2PSIP] =?utf-8?q?Establish_D/TLS_after_AppAttach=3F?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:04:50 -0000 Hi,=0A=0AWe had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I= like=0Ato post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whet= her=0Athe link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also=0Ae= stablish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not be=0Aabl= e to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics.=0A=0AThis could be a big inter= -op issue, so I would like the principles of=0Athis draft address it.=0A=0A= Thank you=0A=0A--Michael=0A From peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Tue Oct 25 20:03:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E1E21F8BDE; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:03:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.375, BAYES_05=-1.11, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, DC_GIF_UNO_LARGO=2.275, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lu9uG4SGVqtw; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F8621F8BD5; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 466213465113155; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:55:33 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 75161.4569552579; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:02:59 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p9Q32xt0059465; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:02:59 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <048b01cc9320$97727900$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> To: "t.petch" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:02:43 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-10-26 11:03:00, Serialize complete at 2011-10-26 11:03:00 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="=_related 0010B7F748257935_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn p9Q32xt0059465 Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn, opsawg@ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org, meng.yu@zte.com.cn Subject: [P2PSIP] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6IFtPUFNBV0ddIEFuIFNOTVAgVXNhZ2Ug?= =?gb2312?b?Zm9yIFJFTE9BRA==?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:03:29 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_related 0010B7F748257935_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0010B7F948257935_=" --=_alternative 0010B7F948257935_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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BOczVQnOa44zm+jcJTmxicgzMlOd8zQnN9/JRntis5XQxCcpuylPS6ZTkAQUpzmnSct2NrKew7xm NYGJvYD6U5/S/CZFJcpPhTbToBg9qDQXmtCHbvOVAh3pKyM6zIHSMKVkZKnwVtpSmMZUpjOlaU0n Zz+GlrOi4LNkTw3Xz50CdKIXjSZR/bbBYwIupLVcpS0ZGs+H8pKd/4uo+pCay39ilI3CnOTnfJnT qu5TrDrNqTsTiUqv8nSO1ISo9rLHVWeuEa5FXeQ/7/hRsPbTqmtLqwHJKbp0sjWfZg0sSVGqUaCa FHSFvSdiS0nI/71qdaEnXadjsxrMpop0o/MsK04BS1fG4u+gkXXbWukKVcHS07HFFOdQg6nWzspz k8+8bFEv283QgXaf8KysIi042rGy9aXD8yb/wjpR1E71sMtt7XJ1e9xzSna1+pzsdA17zOqW1baI 3ahvS8va1xJWu+6Dbg37OlvZnhazbp3u+Cgb3fVmdpXnjetXzcte5yrUtGeFbXFHycvzlpe3bSuv cCHbUZsmWHrDVXCDHfxgCAPvtyV9Lx4TmzkG1y3DEQ5vGvV6YQv/EXcbbik8ZYnQxmp2qw1lbG1F 6s+T/vev1zUuQmdpVFNCtKSx1CqH9SbM2uZ1xpUla3ODbFl2Ymv3wtmtsXRjy1EnH9nHcgtydsOr YrPiNcsfXjJQjTxYIneZuUJ9bI+RPGW8hc/KOnbnZjmbUYs+2aknjnNTQYraUGrZpDtup5rj3Ofr olnQgyZ0oQ19aEQnWtGLZnSjHf1oSEda0pOmtEwDAgA7 --=_related 0010B7F748257935_=-- From frederic.metz@gmail.com Wed Oct 26 12:20:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99A921F8B54 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Xd9PV+o7IVa for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com (mail-qy0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1688621F8B4C for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk34 with SMTP id 34so4615746qyk.10 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:20:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4HEPf1zGdI3/OzCT35FH/m1uLYVJlroqpXjajYAXhUo=; b=I+pA1Lf6i9DvcLleYZqssFdy51mAYeKbGg5BjtSMvBpNbEVvu5XTFXKhdNrLisjI2J 8eehn7zfZf3EEu+t3JbxQxEzSzTjESi15JEzDFZItJHt1WIN4jdUIEFjONee4U31lPga p66XDD/SjqvVK4jDeEwnYNfDtkAI7B9W8zd7U= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.16.69 with SMTP id e5mr35322670pbd.67.1319656840127; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.60.37 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:20:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> References: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:20:39 +0200 Message-ID: From: Frederic-Philippe Metz To: p2psip WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Establish D/TLS after AppAttach? X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 19:20:41 -0000 Hi all, I definitely support Michaels question into the P2P group. The draft doesn't clearly figure out how the connection "description" is presented to the upper layers. In short terms, the reference point of a usage using AppAttach is not defined which connection it should expect. It may cause incompatibility if the same usage (i.e. SIP) would expect different connection type "formats" from RELOAD. Best Regards >>> Fr=E9d=E9ric On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Michael Chen wr= ote: > Hi, > > We had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I like > to post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whether > the link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also > establish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not be > able to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics. > > This could be a big inter-op issue, so I would like the principles of > this draft address it. > > Thank you > > --Michael > > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > From ietfc@btconnect.com Thu Oct 27 04:17:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6340221F886A; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:17:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.592, BAYES_50=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id diAa5kQyYL-Y; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.btconnect.com (c2bthomr07.btconnect.com [213.123.20.125]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5C321F8677; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host86-163-151-98.range86-163.btcentralplus.com (HELO pc6) ([86.163.151.98]) by c2bthomr07.btconnect.com with SMTP id FBI68612; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:17:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ea01cc9490$f50eefa0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "t.petch" To: References: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:09:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Fair-1, source=Queried, refid=tid=0001.0A0B0301.4EA93DD1.00B8, actions=TAG X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=9/50, refid=2.7.2:2011.7.19.51514:17:9.535, ip=86.163.151.98, rules=__HAS_MSGID, __OUTLOOK_MSGID_1, __SANE_MSGID, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CHAR_CHINESE_CT, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN, __CTE, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, CN_TLD, __HIGHBITS, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __C230066_P5, __GB2312_MAINLAND_CELL_NUMBER, __LINES_OF_YELLING, BODY_SIZE_5000_5999, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, LOCALE_CHINESE, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=c2bthomr07.btconnect.com X-Junkmail-Signature-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A0B020B.4EA93DD6.018E,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2010-07-22 22:03:31, dmn=2009-09-10 00:05:08, mode=multiengine X-Junkmail-IWF: false Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn, opsawg@ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org, meng.yu@zte.com.cn Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] [OPSAWG] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:17:54 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "t.petch" Cc: ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:02 AM > In short, the relation between SNMP Usage and RELOAD as follows: > SNMP Usage get a available IP address, which is used for SNMP > communication, for snmeEngineID or NodeID or ResourceID or Manager name by > RELOAD mechanism, such as AppAttach, Store, Fetch. > Then SNMP Usage uses this IP address for SNMP communication between SNMP > entities by the SNMP mechanism and architecture which defined in RFC3411 > and RFC5953 and other SNMP RFCs (as depicted in the diagram below). And > now there is little relation between SNMP Usage and RELOAD besides using > RELOAD certificate. So we say "SNMP entities talk to each other using SNMP > protocol on dedicated connections" No, it still does not make sense. You understand that an SNMP engine can do nothing until it has been customised - snmpEngineID, snmpTargetAddrTable, etc - and you use RELOAD to obtain that information; I assume you are familiar with the MIB modules into which that information must then be placed before an engine can communicate. Two engines can then communicate but cannot do anything useful without suitable MIB modules; the I-D says " SNMP usage for RELOAD SHOULD provide the management functions ... ... monitoring the number of the messages initiated, forwarded or processed by nodes, reporting program failure , message forwarding failure or other error on nodes." This is a typical usage for SNMP but is quite impossible unless and until a suitable MIB module is defined, which is what everyone using SNMP for management then does. Your earlier response to David rejected the idea of creating a MIB module, which leaves me with two SNMP engines able to talk to each other but having nothing useful to say. The I-D also says "As traditional network management protocols (e.g., SNMP) cannot be directly applied to RELOAD network management, it is necessary to introduce new RELOAD usage of SNMP." which is only true in the sense that SNMP cannot be directly applied to any network management, unless and until there is a suitable MIB module. Once there is, and you have two communicating engines (which you say you will have), then of course SNMP can be used to manage anything, including RELOAD. Tom Petch > > If you till have questions, please tell us. Thanks! > > > ************************************************* > ÓÊ ¼þ£ºpeng.yonglin@zte.com.cn > ÄÚ Ïߣº81543 > Íâ Ïߣº025-52871543 > ÊÖ »ú£º13776637274 > ´« Õ棺025-52872187 > ************************************************* > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ; > To: ; ; ; > > Cc: ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:23 AM > > > We have done more research on security and other issues based on David's > > comments, and updated our draft. > > > > This is the new version of draft: > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peng-p2psip-snmp-03.txt > > > > We welcome any comments! Thanks! > > > > Our analysis of David's comments as follows(blue text): > > > > 1) Use SNMPv3 terminology > > Apparently, you come from the RELOAD side of things, not the SNMP > > side. > > Your text doesn't use the common SNMP terminology for various > > SNMP-related things. > > You will have a better chance of success if you describe SNMP-related > > things using the normal SNMPv3 terminology. > > This isn't critical; your ideas seem reasonable, but since you don't > > use the standard terminology, you might mean slightly different things > > than what it would mean if you used the standard terminology. > > > > (I don't have a RELOAD background, so some of my comments might seem > > wrong because I don't know the RELOAD concepts and terminology. Now > > you'll understand my point ;-) > > > > PYL: We have updated the draft using SNMP terminology. As we are not > SNMP > > experts, some terminology may not be accurate. We will try to improve > this > > over time. > > You are indeed using SNMP terminology, but I struggle to see how its usage > is > the same as in RFC3411. > > RELOAD defines a messaging network, on top of which run applications, > which > RELOAD calls Usages, so when you define an SNMP Usage, you would appear to > be > discarding most of an Architecture for SNMP as defined in RFC3411, perhaps > providing instead a gateway for functionality such as that specified in > RFC3414; > or perhaps not, I do not find the I-D clear on this. Thus you have > > Application > > +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ > | SIP | | XMPP | | SNMP | ... > | Usage | | Usage | | Usage | > +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ > ------------------------------------------- Messaging API > > RELOAD > > but elsewhere you say > ' SNMP entities talk to each other using SNMP protocol on dedicated > connections' > which is rather different. > > The I-D reads more like a wish list of requirements, than an overview, > architecture or framework. Or perhaps it is all beyond me:-( > > Tom Petch > > From dromasca@avaya.com Thu Oct 27 04:48:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C8721F8663; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:48:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.841 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.841 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.306, BAYES_40=-0.185, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NN9wvlB00XIV; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23F021F85A4; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:48:56 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah8BALRDqU6HCzI1/2dsb2JhbABChHeVFY9RgQWBcgEBAQEDAQEBDx47AwQHDAQCAQYCDQQBAwEBBQYGDAsBBAIBJh8DBggBAQQBEggBGYdomRiJWQiSDYEshjo3YQSZWYwV X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,413,1315195200"; d="scan'208";a="214949370" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2011 07:48:52 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.14]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2011 07:38:05 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:48:43 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00ea01cc9490$f50eefa0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: thread-topic: [OPSAWG] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD thread-index: AcyUmh9ppjV7Slo1SnCWRRnwN2xWKgAA6J8w References: <00ea01cc9490$f50eefa0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "t.petch" , Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn, opsawg@ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] [OPSAWG] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:48:58 -0000 Just to make sharper the statements made by Tom. In the SNMP = architecture in order for two entities to exchange management = information we have a protocol (basic primitives to fetch pieces of = information, set values of pieces of information or send notifications = related to the pieces of information) and a data model (e.g. MIB model) = expressed in a Data Modeling Language (e.g. SMI). The proposed text = talks about the protocol (SNMP) but not about the information exchanged = (data model). This is of little help.=20 Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: opsawg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of t.petch > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:09 PM > To: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn > Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn; opsawg@ietf.org; p2psip@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "t.petch" > Cc: ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:02 AM >=20 > > In short, the relation between SNMP Usage and RELOAD as follows: > > SNMP Usage get a available IP address, which is used for SNMP > > communication, for snmeEngineID or NodeID or ResourceID or Manager > name by > > RELOAD mechanism, such as AppAttach, Store, Fetch. > > Then SNMP Usage uses this IP address for SNMP communication between > SNMP > > entities by the SNMP mechanism and architecture which defined in > RFC3411 > > and RFC5953 and other SNMP RFCs (as depicted in the diagram below). > And > > now there is little relation between SNMP Usage and RELOAD besides > using > > RELOAD certificate. So we say "SNMP entities talk to each other = using > SNMP > > protocol on dedicated connections" >=20 > No, it still does not make sense. You understand that an SNMP engine > can do > nothing until it has been customised - snmpEngineID, > snmpTargetAddrTable, etc - > and you use RELOAD to obtain that information; I assume you are > familiar with > the MIB modules into which that information must then be placed before > an engine > can communicate. >=20 > Two engines can then communicate but cannot do anything useful without > suitable > MIB modules; the I-D says > " SNMP usage for RELOAD SHOULD provide the management functions ... > ... monitoring the number of the messages > initiated, forwarded or processed by nodes, reporting program > failure > , message forwarding failure or other error on nodes." >=20 > This is a typical usage for SNMP but is quite impossible unless and > until a > suitable > MIB module is defined, which is what everyone using SNMP for = management > then does. Your earlier response to David rejected the idea of > creating a MIB > module, which leaves me with two SNMP engines able to talk to each > other but > having nothing useful to say. >=20 > The I-D also says > "As traditional network > management protocols (e.g., SNMP) cannot be directly applied to > RELOAD network management, it is necessary to introduce new RELOAD > usage of SNMP." > which is only true in the sense that SNMP cannot be directly applied = to > any > network > management, unless and until there is a suitable MIB module. Once > there is, > and you have two communicating engines (which you say you will have), > then > of course SNMP can be used to manage anything, including RELOAD. >=20 > Tom Petch >=20 > > > > If you till have questions, please tell us. Thanks! > > > > > > ************************************************* > > =D3=CA =BC=FE=A3=BApeng.yonglin@zte.com.cn > > =C4=DA =CF=DF=A3=BA81543 > > =CD=E2 =CF=DF=A3=BA025-52871543 > > =CA=D6 =BB=FA=A3=BA13776637274 > > =B4=AB =D5=E6=A3=BA025-52872187 > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ; > > To: ; ; ; > > > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:23 AM > > > > > We have done more research on security and other issues based on > David's > > > comments, and updated our draft. > > > > > > This is the new version of draft: > > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peng-p2psip-snmp-03.txt > > > > > > We welcome any comments! Thanks! > > > > > > Our analysis of David's comments as follows(blue text): > > > > > > 1) Use SNMPv3 terminology > > > Apparently, you come from the RELOAD side of things, not the SNMP > > > side. > > > Your text doesn't use the common SNMP terminology for various > > > SNMP-related things. > > > You will have a better chance of success if you describe SNMP- > related > > > things using the normal SNMPv3 terminology. > > > This isn't critical; your ideas seem reasonable, but since you > don't > > > use the standard terminology, you might mean slightly different > things > > > than what it would mean if you used the standard terminology. > > > > > > (I don't have a RELOAD background, so some of my comments might > seem > > > wrong because I don't know the RELOAD concepts and terminology. = Now > > > you'll understand my point ;-) > > > > > > PYL: We have updated the draft using SNMP terminology. As we are > not > > SNMP > > > experts, some terminology may not be accurate. We will try to > improve > > this > > > over time. > > > > You are indeed using SNMP terminology, but I struggle to see how its > usage > > is > > the same as in RFC3411. > > > > RELOAD defines a messaging network, on top of which run = applications, > > which > > RELOAD calls Usages, so when you define an SNMP Usage, you would > appear to > > be > > discarding most of an Architecture for SNMP as defined in RFC3411, > perhaps > > providing instead a gateway for functionality such as that specified > in > > RFC3414; > > or perhaps not, I do not find the I-D clear on this. Thus you have > > > > Application > > > > +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ > > | SIP | | XMPP | | SNMP | ... > > | Usage | | Usage | | Usage | > > +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ > > ------------------------------------------- Messaging API > > > > RELOAD > > > > but elsewhere you say > > ' SNMP entities talk to each other using SNMP protocol on dedicated > > connections' > > which is rather different. > > > > The I-D reads more like a wish list of requirements, than an > overview, > > architecture or framework. Or perhaps it is all beyond me:-( > > > > Tom Petch > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg From peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Thu Oct 27 20:56:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE741F0C54; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:56:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -90.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.106, BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n7a2zrBRHt0p; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B751F0C5E; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 466213465113155; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:47:09 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 60802.5026350496; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:56:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p9S3uX4q088250; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:56:33 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <00ea01cc9490$f50eefa0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> To: "t.petch" , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:56:19 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-10-28 11:56:34, Serialize complete at 2011-10-28 11:56:34 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0015A02C48257937_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn p9S3uX4q088250 Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn, opsawg@ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org, meng.yu@zte.com.cn Subject: [P2PSIP] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6IFJlOiBbT1BTQVdHXSBBbiBTTk1QIFVz?= =?gb2312?b?YWdlIGZvciBSRUxPQUQ=?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 03:56:49 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0015A02C48257937_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIGZvciBUb20ncyByZXNwb25zZSBhbmQgRGFuJ3MgZXhwbGFuYXRpb24uIFBsZWFzZSBz ZWUgaW5saW5lIChibHVlIA0KdGV4dCkuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KInQucGV0Y2giIDxpZXRmY0BidGNv 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bmJzcDtwbGVhc2UmbmJzcDtub3RpZnkmbmJzcDt0aGUmbmJzcDtvcmlnaW5hdG9yJm5ic3A7b2Ym bmJzcDt0aGUmbmJzcDttZXNzYWdlLiZuYnNwO0FueSZuYnNwO3ZpZXdzJm5ic3A7ZXhwcmVzc2Vk Jm5ic3A7aW4mbmJzcDt0aGlzJm5ic3A7bWVzc2FnZSZuYnNwO2FyZSZuYnNwO3Rob3NlJm5ic3A7 b2YmbmJzcDt0aGUmbmJzcDtpbmRpdmlkdWFsJm5ic3A7c2VuZGVyLg0KVGhpcyZuYnNwO21lc3Nh Z2UmbmJzcDtoYXMmbmJzcDtiZWVuJm5ic3A7c2Nhbm5lZCZuYnNwO2ZvciZuYnNwO3ZpcnVzZXMm bmJzcDthbmQmbmJzcDtTcGFtJm5ic3A7YnkmbmJzcDtaVEUmbmJzcDtBbnRpLVNwYW0mbmJzcDtz eXN0ZW0uDQo8L3ByZT4= --=_alternative 001FF30A48257937_=-- From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Thu Oct 27 08:15:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036EB21F8B23; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:15:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.131, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-t5j+jeqXH6; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25BB21F8B21; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F8820E54; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:15:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73czeMLz3K0S; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:15:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6274D20E50; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:15:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 783DA1B3DB52; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:15:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:15:31 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Message-ID: <20111027151531.GD40631@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn, hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn, opsawg@ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org References: <00ea01cc9490$f50eefa0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:34:01 -0700 Cc: hao.zhenwu@zte.com.cn, opsawg@ietf.org, p2psip@ietf.org Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] [OPSAWG] An SNMP Usage for RELOAD X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:15:51 -0000 On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 01:48:43PM +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > Just to make sharper the statements made by Tom. In the SNMP architecture in order for two entities to exchange management information we have a protocol (basic primitives to fetch pieces of information, set values of pieces of information or send notifications related to the pieces of information) and a data model (e.g. MIB model) expressed in a Data Modeling Language (e.g. SMI). The proposed text talks about the protocol (SNMP) but not about the information exchanged (data model). This is of little help. > And it might help to notice that the set of SNMP's protocol operations has been static for almost 20 years and any attempts to add additional protocol operations during this period failed to get sufficient support. So if your idea is to add new operations, you likely will have a hard time getting this anywhere. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From internet-drafts@ietf.org Sat Oct 29 12:40:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C2B21F86D0; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eniFm5J-E3NM; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B452121F8677; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:40:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.62 Message-ID: <20111029194051.8068.56577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:40:51 -0700 Cc: p2psip@ietf.org Subject: [P2PSIP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:40:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer-to-Peer Session Initiation Proto= col Working Group of the IETF. Title : REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD) Base Protocol Author(s) : Cullen Jennings Bruce B. Lowekamp Eric Rescorla Salman A. Baset Henning Schulzrinne Filename : draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt Pages : 165 Date : 2011-10-29 NOTE: This version address some, but not all, of the comments received during IESG review. The authors are still working on addressing many more of the comments but as the draft deadline for IETF 82 arrives, this represents the modification made so far. This specification defines REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD), a peer-to-peer (P2P) signaling protocol for use on the Internet. A P2P signaling protocol provides its clients with an abstract storage and messaging service between a set of cooperating peers that form the overlay network. RELOAD is designed to support a P2P Session Initiation Protocol (P2PSIP) network, but can be utilized by other applications with similar requirements by defining new usages that specify the kinds of data that must be stored for a particular application. RELOAD defines a security model based on a certificate enrollment service that provides unique identities. NAT traversal is a fundamental service of the protocol. RELOAD also allows access from "client" nodes that do not need to route traffic or store= data for others. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt From bbl@lowekamp.net Sat Oct 29 13:40:33 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A1D21F858C for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:40:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gLZZyTnHTbSn for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CFE21F853E for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by faas12 with SMTP id s12so5294861faa.31 for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.76.11 with SMTP id a11mr16283396fak.1.1319920831725; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.13.225 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:40:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Bruce Lowekamp To: Frederic-Philippe Metz , Michael Chen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: p2psip WG Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Establish D/TLS after AppAttach? X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 20:40:33 -0000 The OverlayLinkTypes that reload includes are all message-oriented protocols. It's up to the usage defining the application-id to indicate what is actually passed in these messages. e.g. the sip usage specifies SIP messages for application-id 5060. Beyond the application-id, I don't think it's the role of an IETF draft to specify how that is presented to the upper layers, though a usage has to specify what is on the wire clearly enough that compatible implementations can be written, obviously. Bruce On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Frederic-Philippe Metz wrote: > Hi all, > > I definitely support Michaels question into the P2P group. The draft > doesn't clearly figure out how the connection "description" is > presented to the upper layers. In short terms, the reference point of > a usage using AppAttach is not defined which connection it should > expect. It may cause incompatibility if the same usage (i.e. SIP) > would expect different connection type "formats" from RELOAD. > Best Regards >>> Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Michael Chen = wrote: >> Hi, >> >> We had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I like >> to post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whether >> the link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also >> establish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not be >> able to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics. >> >> This could be a big inter-op issue, so I would like the principles of >> this draft address it. >> >> Thank you >> >> --Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2PSIP mailing list >> P2PSIP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >> > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > From petithug@acm.org Sat Oct 29 14:33:56 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF04E21F85A7 for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.224 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.224 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y2zLfWyB2Q6F for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B903D21F8569 for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:616:213:d4ff:fe04:3e08] (shalmaneser.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:616:213:d4ff:fe04:3e08]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "petithug", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E63A2087B for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:25:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EAC713E.4080606@acm.org> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 14:33:50 -0700 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20111010 Iceowl/1.0b2 Icedove/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: p2psip@ietf.org References: <20111029194051.8068.56577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20111029194051.8068.56577.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [P2PSIP] Reissuing certificate [was I-D Action: draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt] X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:33:56 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Not a full review yet, but I saw this new text in section 10.3: "The enrollment server SHOULD maintain a mapping of users to node-ids and if the same user returns (e.g., to have their certificate re-issued) return the same Node-ID, thus avoiding the need for implementations to re-store all their data when their certificates expire." Even after the sentence is fixed there would still be two issues: - - How does this work if the user requested multiple certificates from the same login? - - How does this work if the number of Node-Ids requested changes? Also I would like to point out that I proposed a different solution to this problem in this draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petithuguenin-p2psip-reload-bis-00#section-6 My solution does not permit to change the private key without assigning new Node-Ids, but in addition of not having the two problems listed above, it does not require server-side storage. On 10/29/2011 12:40 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Peer-to-Peer Session Initiation Protocol Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD) Base Protocol > Author(s) : Cullen Jennings > Bruce B. Lowekamp > Eric Rescorla > Salman A. Baset > Henning Schulzrinne > Filename : draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt > Pages : 165 > Date : 2011-10-29 > > NOTE: This version address some, but not all, of the comments > received during IESG review. The authors are still working on > addressing many more of the comments but as the draft deadline for > IETF 82 arrives, this represents the modification made so far. > > This specification defines REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD), > a peer-to-peer (P2P) signaling protocol for use on the Internet. A > P2P signaling protocol provides its clients with an abstract storage > and messaging service between a set of cooperating peers that form > the overlay network. RELOAD is designed to support a P2P Session > Initiation Protocol (P2PSIP) network, but can be utilized by other > applications with similar requirements by defining new usages that > specify the kinds of data that must be stored for a particular > application. RELOAD defines a security model based on a certificate > enrollment service that provides unique identities. NAT traversal is > a fundamental service of the protocol. RELOAD also allows access > from "client" nodes that do not need to route traffic or store data > for others. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-base-19.txt - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Personal email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Professional email: petithug@acm.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6scTwACgkQ9RoMZyVa61daTQCgiq3jHJyUuTck8X+tg+cXwBae m5MAn028zaePwx8F6K3e9+WeMJQSg7T5 =1EB4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From frederic.metz@gmail.com Sun Oct 30 02:36:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244BE21F8922 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 02:36:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62dEzI2SUHjB for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 02:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f50.google.com (mail-pz0-f50.google.com [209.85.210.50]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6539421F877F for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 02:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pzk34 with SMTP id 34so14362221pzk.9 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 02:36:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2YaDLG0ubv1mKmCdBRwHEfGZiBAXf3PYidL/V75QZZk=; b=T15C7ZcEklwAG026PIDwgZK1ASS3ytC/ljhN/gkRUw1Fklh1GGPXDaDYsnplr82rTS X9Bfu5HgdVgQDVj9a2/+1qq3b5PfxtTTQKGy91lkXF2xJjAUFsVduLvYIEQi8Km33nQ5 rf5vUDFDc4Qs9Fux04qv2tO8ACPCc7SPVo7sg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.16.69 with SMTP id e5mr15858971pbd.67.1319967399106; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 02:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.48.97 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 02:36:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:36:39 +0100 Message-ID: From: Frederic-Philippe Metz To: p2psip WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Establish D/TLS after AppAttach? X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:36:41 -0000 Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply, I agree with you. I think I missed the point. For the implementors, it is not clear (please correct me if I am wrong Mich= ael): The draft says: "For example, if a P2PSIP node wishes to establish a SIP dialog with another P2PSIP node, it will use AppAttach to establish a direct connection with the other node. This new connection is separate from the peer protocol connection. It is a dedicated UDP or TCP flow used only for the SIP dialog." and " AppAttach: used to form application layer connections between nodes." and the paragraph 5.5.2: This could mean two things at least (the third is for completeness): 1. An application issues an AppAttach to RELOAD and receives the candidates. The application then have to form the connection itself. 2. An application issues a command to RELOAD that does the AppAttach stuff ( AppAttach -> ICE -> TLS/D/TLS) and RELOAD provides an application connection to the application (an "OverlayLinkType connection") (3. For completeness: Same as 2, but RELOAD provides a pure TCP or UDP connection to the application (AppAttach -> ICE -> TCP/UDP). The application then has to perform TLS/DTLS itself.) I assume, with respect to your answer, you mean point 2. applies. Am I right ? That means An application somehow tells RELOAD to make a connection and RELOAD provides a application connection the application then uses to exchange the application messages. Best Regards, Fr=E9d=E9ric On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: > The OverlayLinkTypes that reload includes are all message-oriented > protocols. =A0It's up to the usage defining the application-id to > indicate what is actually passed in these messages. =A0e.g. the sip > usage specifies SIP messages for application-id 5060. > > Beyond the application-id, I don't think it's the role of an IETF > draft to specify how that is presented to the upper layers, though a > usage has to specify what is on the wire clearly enough that > compatible implementations can be written, obviously. > > Bruce > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Frederic-Philippe Metz > wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I definitely support Michaels question into the P2P group. The draft >> doesn't clearly figure out how the connection "description" is >> presented to the upper layers. In short terms, the reference point of >> a usage using AppAttach is not defined which connection it should >> expect. It may cause incompatibility if the same usage (i.e. SIP) >> would expect different connection type "formats" from RELOAD. >> Best Regards >>> Fr=E9d=E9ric >> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Michael Chen = wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> We had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I like >>> to post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whether >>> the link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also >>> establish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not be >>> able to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics. >>> >>> This could be a big inter-op issue, so I would like the principles of >>> this draft address it. >>> >>> Thank you >>> >>> --Michael >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> P2PSIP mailing list >>> P2PSIP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2PSIP mailing list >> P2PSIP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >> > From bbl@lowekamp.net Sun Oct 30 08:32:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6876121F8B09 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:32:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXBW+MM04lgH for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BC021F8B05 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iabn5 with SMTP id n5so7845113iab.31 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:32:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.197.197 with SMTP id el5mr16450464icb.23.1319988767688; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.180.3 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:32:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:32:47 -0400 Message-ID: From: Bruce Lowekamp To: Frederic-Philippe Metz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: p2psip WG Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Establish D/TLS after AppAttach? X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:32:51 -0000 I would personally implement it essentially as #2, with the application implementing an interface with a receiveMessage(Message) function and invoking an interface provided by the reload implementation that has a sendMessage(Message) function. Reality needs to be a bit more complicated as, for example, the SIP usage specifies requirements about the certificate of the other side. I'm happy to provide a clarification in the draft if we can find some helpful text. But I don't see this as needing to be specified in the draft---any of the approaches could produce a valid implementation. It might be a good discussion in an implementers' wiki page, though. Bruce On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 5:36 AM, Frederic-Philippe Metz wrote: > Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply, I agree with you. > I think I missed the point. > > For the implementors, it is not clear (please correct me if I am wrong Mi= chael): > > The draft says: > "For example, if a P2PSIP node wishes to > =C2=A0 establish a SIP dialog with another P2PSIP node, it will use > =C2=A0 AppAttach to establish a direct connection with the other node. = =C2=A0This > =C2=A0 new connection is separate from the peer protocol connection. =C2= =A0It is > =C2=A0 a dedicated UDP or TCP flow used only for the SIP dialog." > > and > > " =C2=A0 AppAttach: =C2=A0 =C2=A0used to form application layer connectio= ns between > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nodes." > > and the paragraph 5.5.2: > > This could mean two things at least (the third is for completeness): > > 1. An application issues an AppAttach to RELOAD and receives the > candidates. The application then have to form the connection itself. > > 2. An application issues a command to RELOAD that does the AppAttach > stuff ( AppAttach -> ICE -> TLS/D/TLS) and RELOAD provides an > application connection to the application (an "OverlayLinkType > connection") > > (3. For completeness: Same as 2, but RELOAD provides a pure TCP or UDP > connection to the application (AppAttach -> ICE -> TCP/UDP). The > application then has to perform TLS/DTLS itself.) > > I assume, with respect to your answer, you mean point 2. applies. Am I > right ? That means An application somehow tells RELOAD to make a > connection and RELOAD provides a application connection the > application then uses to exchange the application messages. > > Best Regards, > Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote= : >> The OverlayLinkTypes that reload includes are all message-oriented >> protocols. =C2=A0It's up to the usage defining the application-id to >> indicate what is actually passed in these messages. =C2=A0e.g. the sip >> usage specifies SIP messages for application-id 5060. >> >> Beyond the application-id, I don't think it's the role of an IETF >> draft to specify how that is presented to the upper layers, though a >> usage has to specify what is on the wire clearly enough that >> compatible implementations can be written, obviously. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Frederic-Philippe Metz >> wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I definitely support Michaels question into the P2P group. The draft >>> doesn't clearly figure out how the connection "description" is >>> presented to the upper layers. In short terms, the reference point of >>> a usage using AppAttach is not defined which connection it should >>> expect. It may cause incompatibility if the same usage (i.e. SIP) >>> would expect different connection type "formats" from RELOAD. >>> Best Regards >>> Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Michael Chen wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> We had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I lik= e >>>> to post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whether >>>> the link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also >>>> establish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not be >>>> able to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics. >>>> >>>> This could be a big inter-op issue, so I would like the principles of >>>> this draft address it. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> >>>> --Michael >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> P2PSIP mailing list >>>> P2PSIP@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> P2PSIP mailing list >>> P2PSIP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >>> >> > From bbl@lowekamp.net Sun Oct 30 08:56:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B31821F8797 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:56:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GipwwQ8W-sj7 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4E821F86F6 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iabn5 with SMTP id n5so7864906iab.31 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.151.4 with SMTP id c4mr16510911icw.39.1319990205469; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.180.3 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:56:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E77ACEA.8020401@acm.org> References: <4E77ACEA.8020401@acm.org> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:56:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Bruce Lowekamp To: Marc Petit-Huguenin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: P2PSIP Mailing List Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RELOAD fragmentation X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:56:48 -0000 Marc, How about: Each fragment MUST contain a full copy of the via list, destination list, and ForwardingOptions and MUST contain at least 256 bytes of the message body. If these elements cannot fit within the MTU of the underlying datagram protocol, RELOAD fragmentation is not performed and IP-layer fragmentation is allowed to occur. ? Bruce On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin wro= te: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > In section 5.7: > > "Each fragment MUST contain a full copy of the via and > =C2=A0destination list and MUST contain at least 256 bytes of the message > =C2=A0body. =C2=A0If the via and destination list are so large that this = is not > =C2=A0possible, RELOAD fragmentation is not performed and IP-layer > =C2=A0fragmentation is allowed to occur." > > I think that the text should say this instead: > > "Each fragment MUST contain a full copy of the via list, > =C2=A0destination list and options and MUST contain at least 256 bytes of > =C2=A0the message body. =C2=A0If the via list, destination list and optio= ns are > =C2=A0so large that this is not possible, RELOAD fragmentation is not > =C2=A0performed and IP-layer fragmentation is allowed to occur." > > - -- > Marc Petit-Huguenin > Personal email: marc@petit-huguenin.org > Professional email: petithug@acm.org > Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk53rOgACgkQ9RoMZyVa61cN/QCZATAXCAGPN8u5Opw4aBYQmmbX > 60IAoJRyoBZQIe0XR4vvB4BNxVOY8Obo > =3DRDGo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > From petithug@acm.org Sun Oct 30 09:04:58 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D9321F8B03 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:04:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.639 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.639 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.256, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lvxkENkwtYGi for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE02B21F8AFC for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.25] (mfd0536d0.tmodns.net [208.54.5.253]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "petithug", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18D0E20371; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:56:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EAD75A4.70403@acm.org> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:04:52 -0400 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20111010 Icedove/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Lowekamp References: <4E77ACEA.8020401@acm.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: P2PSIP Mailing List Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RELOAD fragmentation X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:04:58 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/30/2011 11:56 AM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: > Marc, > > How about: > > Each > fragment MUST contain a full copy of the via list, destination list, > and ForwardingOptions and > MUST contain at least 256 bytes of the message body. If these elements > cannot fit within the MTU of the underlying datagram protocol, RELOAD > fragmentation is not performed and IP-layer fragmentation is allowed > to occur. > > ? Your text is unambiguous, so it's fine for me. > > Bruce > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote: > In section 5.7: > > "Each fragment MUST contain a full copy of the via and > destination list and MUST contain at least 256 bytes of the message > body. If the via and destination list are so large that this is not > possible, RELOAD fragmentation is not performed and IP-layer > fragmentation is allowed to occur." > > I think that the text should say this instead: > > "Each fragment MUST contain a full copy of the via list, > destination list and options and MUST contain at least 256 bytes of > the message body. If the via list, destination list and options are > so large that this is not possible, RELOAD fragmentation is not > performed and IP-layer fragmentation is allowed to occur." > - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Personal email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Professional email: petithug@acm.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6tdaIACgkQ9RoMZyVa61f3AACcCmIT3UXc7y6Pm0aAky+Z33kB IPQAnAleHO39flwU4GQoSVWHJ0Eta/C6 =cHmt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From frederic.metz@gmail.com Sun Oct 30 13:35:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D002E21F8B81 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gbz3HSYAEbUr for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B0E21F8B17 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iabn5 with SMTP id n5so8103890iab.31 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QKB41G9/pEBCxhXY+htD6Ajnyrp55iiKRTKiZbAK+bI=; b=nA0v0gX75I7j73B72HcfxI7JxDuhvFCqQZzuaD6tmfJCwhL2a8YJJaN4GcqgBInDeg s6GVgj/BInCVfuEaPF7IcMfrDq5oVvSbKn2NTi9O+Kc3vjTSqGVH40sEMQExZigJtQOj a32BuzreM92QtLVk0WfM40MBGn9lXZ7vxagoQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.4.200 with SMTP id m8mr18373877pbm.50.1320006947107; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.48.97 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20111025160443.61e8c06078a3b23a733c71e914c0b9df.0f8a541436.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 21:35:47 +0100 Message-ID: From: Frederic-Philippe Metz To: p2psip WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Establish D/TLS after AppAttach? X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 20:35:48 -0000 Hi Bruce, great that we can discussed this point. I guess "helpful text" means that I should suggest one :-) I will think about it if so. On the implementation side, I would assume that there doesn't exist any assumptions what the connection should look like to the usage and as a consequence, it would be configurable in an implementation. There's one question open: The problem came from an implementation design where one implementor thought that the application with the SIP usage expects a pure TLS/DTLS connection from RELOAD (#2) to send raw SIP stuff and the other implementation would expect a TCP/UDP connection (#3) where the usage (I mean application) would do the TLS/DTLS stuff on its own. They would not be compatible to each other. Shouldn't that be standardized that (when using RELOAD) an application has to expect a special kind of connection (maybe in the usage draft for every usage) ? If not, if the connection coming from RELOAD should be assumed as a raw connection (even if TLS/DTLS is already done in RELOAD) and the usage (i.e.SIP) i.e. wants to use TLS then the usage (application) should do TLS on top of the RELOAD connection ? Cheers, Fr=E9d=E9ric On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: > I would personally implement it essentially as #2, with the > application implementing an interface with a receiveMessage(Message) > function and invoking an interface provided by the reload > implementation that has a sendMessage(Message) function. =A0Reality > needs to be a bit more complicated as, for example, the SIP usage > specifies requirements about the certificate of the other side. > > I'm happy to provide a clarification in the draft if we can find some > helpful text. =A0But I don't see this as needing to be specified in the > draft---any of the approaches could produce a valid implementation. > It might be a good discussion in an implementers' wiki page, though. > > Bruce > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 5:36 AM, Frederic-Philippe Metz > wrote: >> Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply, I agree with you. >> I think I missed the point. >> >> For the implementors, it is not clear (please correct me if I am wrong M= ichael): >> >> The draft says: >> "For example, if a P2PSIP node wishes to >> =A0 establish a SIP dialog with another P2PSIP node, it will use >> =A0 AppAttach to establish a direct connection with the other node. =A0T= his >> =A0 new connection is separate from the peer protocol connection. =A0It = is >> =A0 a dedicated UDP or TCP flow used only for the SIP dialog." >> >> and >> >> " =A0 AppAttach: =A0 =A0used to form application layer connections betwe= en >> =A0 =A0 =A0nodes." >> >> and the paragraph 5.5.2: >> >> This could mean two things at least (the third is for completeness): >> >> 1. An application issues an AppAttach to RELOAD and receives the >> candidates. The application then have to form the connection itself. >> >> 2. An application issues a command to RELOAD that does the AppAttach >> stuff ( AppAttach -> ICE -> TLS/D/TLS) and RELOAD provides an >> application connection to the application (an "OverlayLinkType >> connection") >> >> (3. For completeness: Same as 2, but RELOAD provides a pure TCP or UDP >> connection to the application (AppAttach -> ICE -> TCP/UDP). The >> application then has to perform TLS/DTLS itself.) >> >> I assume, with respect to your answer, you mean point 2. applies. Am I >> right ? That means An application somehow tells RELOAD to make a >> connection and RELOAD provides a application connection the >> application then uses to exchange the application messages. >> >> Best Regards, >> Fr=E9d=E9ric >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrot= e: >>> The OverlayLinkTypes that reload includes are all message-oriented >>> protocols. =A0It's up to the usage defining the application-id to >>> indicate what is actually passed in these messages. =A0e.g. the sip >>> usage specifies SIP messages for application-id 5060. >>> >>> Beyond the application-id, I don't think it's the role of an IETF >>> draft to specify how that is presented to the upper layers, though a >>> usage has to specify what is on the wire clearly enough that >>> compatible implementations can be written, obviously. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Frederic-Philippe Metz >>> wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I definitely support Michaels question into the P2P group. The draft >>>> doesn't clearly figure out how the connection "description" is >>>> presented to the upper layers. In short terms, the reference point of >>>> a usage using AppAttach is not defined which connection it should >>>> expect. It may cause incompatibility if the same usage (i.e. SIP) >>>> would expect different connection type "formats" from RELOAD. >>>> Best Regards >>> Fr=E9d=E9ric >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Michael Chen wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> We had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I li= ke >>>>> to post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whethe= r >>>>> the link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also >>>>> establish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not b= e >>>>> able to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics. >>>>> >>>>> This could be a big inter-op issue, so I would like the principles of >>>>> this draft address it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you >>>>> >>>>> --Michael >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> P2PSIP mailing list >>>>> P2PSIP@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> P2PSIP mailing list >>>> P2PSIP@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >>>> >>> >> > From peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Sun Oct 30 23:14:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA97221F8C13; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:14:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.79 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.79 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VpxjVnoI-v7r; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1122B21F8B5E; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.99] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 417133559614510; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:10:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.21] by [192.168.168.15] with StormMail ESMTP id 20387.5680175289; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:13:44 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id p9V6DdGN026791; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:13:39 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: To: Frederic-Philippe Metz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:13:41 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-10-31 14:13:42, Serialize complete at 2011-10-31 14:13:42 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 002230244825793A_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn p9V6DdGN026791 Cc: p2psip WG , p2psip-bounces@ietf.org Subject: [P2PSIP] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBFc3RhYmxpc2ggRC9UTFMgYWZ0ZXIg?= =?gb2312?b?QXBwQXR0YWNoPw==?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:14:03 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 002230244825793A_= Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:21:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wJqO+g4oAeEy; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D938521F8A7A; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggnv1 with SMTP id v1so7053502ggn.31 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:21:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.141.69 with SMTP id n5mr22598261icu.47.1320067314178; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.180.3 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:21:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:21:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: Bruce Lowekamp To: peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: p2psip WG , p2psip-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBSZTogRXN0YWJsaXNoIEQvVExTIGFmdGVy?= =?utf-8?q?_AppAttach=3F?= X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:21:56 -0000 2011/10/31 > > Hi, > I think it isn't enough beneficial that RELOAD provides connection for ap= plication. > Firstly, it is difficult that RELOAD understand the link type of all kind= s of applications. The Link type defined in RELOAD doesn't necessarily suit= able for all applications. OverlayLinkType is extensible. =C2=A0If your draft needs something else, please define it. > > Secondly, it is difficult that RELOAD maintains the connection of applica= tion. Different application have different connection maintainence mechanis= m, for example, some applications need long connection, but other applicati= ons need short connection. >From 5.5.2.1: The application using connection set up with this request is responsible for providing sufficiently frequent keep traffic for NAT and Firewall keep alive and for deciding when to close the connection. Bruce > > Even though RELOAD provides raw connection for application, it isn't more= beneficial than application providing connection itself. But its shortcomi= ng is obvious, and it increases the coupling between RELOAD and application= and increases implementation complexity. > > So I think it is suitable that applicatin forms connection ifself. Then w= e need think about the definition of the link type of AppAttach. It is diff= erent from the link type of Attach, and it should be compatible for all kin= ds of application. Maybe the specific options of link type of AppAttach sho= uld be leaved to application. > > > *************************************** > Email=EF=BC=9A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0peng.yonglin@zte.com.cn > TEL=EF=BC=9A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0025-52871543 > Mobile=EF=BC=9A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 13776637274 > Fax=EF=BC=9A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0025-52872187 > *************************************** > > > Frederic-Philippe Metz > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: =C2=A0p2psip-bounces@ietf.org > > 2011-10-31 04:35 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA > p2psip WG > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81 > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98 > Re: [P2PSIP] Establish D/TLS after AppAttach? > > > > > Hi Bruce, > great that we can discussed this point. I guess "helpful text" means > that I should suggest one :-) I will think about it if so. On the > implementation side, I would assume that there doesn't exist any > assumptions what the connection should look like to the usage and as a > consequence, it would be configurable in an implementation. > > There's one question open: The problem came from an implementation > design where one implementor thought that the application with the SIP > usage expects a pure TLS/DTLS connection from RELOAD (#2) to send raw > SIP stuff and the other implementation would expect a TCP/UDP > connection (#3) where the usage (I mean application) would do the > TLS/DTLS stuff on its own. They would not be compatible to each other. > Shouldn't that be standardized that (when using RELOAD) an application > has to expect a special kind of connection (maybe in the usage draft > for every usage) ? > > If not, if the connection coming from RELOAD should be assumed as a > raw connection (even if TLS/DTLS is already done in RELOAD) and the > usage (i.e.SIP) i.e. wants to use TLS then the usage (application) > should do TLS on top of the RELOAD connection ? > > Cheers, > Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric > > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: > > I would personally implement it essentially as #2, with the > > application implementing an interface with a receiveMessage(Message) > > function and invoking an interface provided by the reload > > implementation that has a sendMessage(Message) function. =C2=A0Reality > > needs to be a bit more complicated as, for example, the SIP usage > > specifies requirements about the certificate of the other side. > > > > I'm happy to provide a clarification in the draft if we can find some > > helpful text. =C2=A0But I don't see this as needing to be specified in = the > > draft---any of the approaches could produce a valid implementation. > > It might be a good discussion in an implementers' wiki page, though. > > > > Bruce > > > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 5:36 AM, Frederic-Philippe Metz > > wrote: > >> Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply, I agree with you. > >> I think I missed the point. > >> > >> For the implementors, it is not clear (please correct me if I am wrong= Michael): > >> > >> The draft says: > >> "For example, if a P2PSIP node wishes to > >> =C2=A0 establish a SIP dialog with another P2PSIP node, it will use > >> =C2=A0 AppAttach to establish a direct connection with the other node.= =C2=A0This > >> =C2=A0 new connection is separate from the peer protocol connection. = =C2=A0It is > >> =C2=A0 a dedicated UDP or TCP flow used only for the SIP dialog." > >> > >> and > >> > >> " =C2=A0 AppAttach: =C2=A0 =C2=A0used to form application layer connec= tions between > >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nodes." > >> > >> and the paragraph 5.5.2: > >> > >> This could mean two things at least (the third is for completeness): > >> > >> 1. An application issues an AppAttach to RELOAD and receives the > >> candidates. The application then have to form the connection itself. > >> > >> 2. An application issues a command to RELOAD that does the AppAttach > >> stuff ( AppAttach -> ICE -> TLS/D/TLS) and RELOAD provides an > >> application connection to the application (an "OverlayLinkType > >> connection") > >> > >> (3. For completeness: Same as 2, but RELOAD provides a pure TCP or UDP > >> connection to the application (AppAttach -> ICE -> TCP/UDP). The > >> application then has to perform TLS/DTLS itself.) > >> > >> I assume, with respect to your answer, you mean point 2. applies. Am I > >> right ? That means An application somehow tells RELOAD to make a > >> connection and RELOAD provides a application connection the > >> application then uses to exchange the application messages. > >> > >> Best Regards, > >> Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wr= ote: > >>> The OverlayLinkTypes that reload includes are all message-oriented > >>> protocols. =C2=A0It's up to the usage defining the application-id to > >>> indicate what is actually passed in these messages. =C2=A0e.g. the si= p > >>> usage specifies SIP messages for application-id 5060. > >>> > >>> Beyond the application-id, I don't think it's the role of an IETF > >>> draft to specify how that is presented to the upper layers, though a > >>> usage has to specify what is on the wire clearly enough that > >>> compatible implementations can be written, obviously. > >>> > >>> Bruce > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Frederic-Philippe Metz > >>> wrote: > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I definitely support Michaels question into the P2P group. The draft > >>>> doesn't clearly figure out how the connection "description" is > >>>> presented to the upper layers. In short terms, the reference point o= f > >>>> a usage using AppAttach is not defined which connection it should > >>>> expect. It may cause incompatibility if the same usage (i.e. SIP) > >>>> would expect different connection type "formats" from RELOAD. > >>>> Best Regards >>> Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Michael Chen wrote: > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> We had some discussions at the reload@implementers.org list, and I = like > >>>>> to post this question here. The base draft makes no mention of whet= her > >>>>> the link between two peers from an AppAttach may/should/must also > >>>>> establish D/TLS connection. Without an agreement, two peer will not= be > >>>>> able to forward the actual SIP dialog traffics. > >>>>> > >>>>> This could be a big inter-op issue, so I would like the principles = of > >>>>> this draft address it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you > >>>>> > >>>>> --Michael > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> P2PSIP mailing list > >>>>> P2PSIP@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> P2PSIP mailing list > >>>> P2PSIP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ZTE=C2=A0Information=C2=A0Security=C2=A0Notice:=C2=A0The=C2=A0information= =C2=A0contained=C2=A0in=C2=A0this=C2=A0mail=C2=A0is=C2=A0solely=C2=A0proper= ty=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0sender's=C2=A0organization.=C2=A0This=C2=A0mail=C2= =A0communication=C2=A0is=C2=A0confidential.=C2=A0Recipients=C2=A0named=C2= =A0above=C2=A0are=C2=A0obligated=C2=A0to=C2=A0maintain=C2=A0secrecy=C2=A0an= d=C2=A0are=C2=A0not=C2=A0permitted=C2=A0to=C2=A0disclose=C2=A0the=C2=A0cont= ents=C2=A0of=C2=A0this=C2=A0communication=C2=A0to=C2=A0others. > This=C2=A0email=C2=A0and=C2=A0any=C2=A0files=C2=A0transmitted=C2=A0with= =C2=A0it=C2=A0are=C2=A0confidential=C2=A0and=C2=A0intended=C2=A0solely=C2= =A0for=C2=A0the=C2=A0use=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0individual=C2=A0or=C2=A0enti= ty=C2=A0to=C2=A0whom=C2=A0they=C2=A0are=C2=A0addressed.=C2=A0If=C2=A0you=C2= =A0have=C2=A0received=C2=A0this=C2=A0email=C2=A0in=C2=A0error=C2=A0please= =C2=A0notify=C2=A0the=C2=A0originator=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0message.=C2=A0A= ny=C2=A0views=C2=A0expressed=C2=A0in=C2=A0this=C2=A0message=C2=A0are=C2=A0t= hose=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0individual=C2=A0sender. > This=C2=A0message=C2=A0has=C2=A0been=C2=A0scanned=C2=A0for=C2=A0viruses= =C2=A0and=C2=A0Spam=C2=A0by=C2=A0ZTE=C2=A0Anti-Spam=C2=A0system. > > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Oct 31 08:51:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6525421F8DF5; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 08:51:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKB1SkWWbf1U; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 08:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B1921F8D6B; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 08:51:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.62 Message-ID: <20111031155148.3443.27139.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 08:51:48 -0700 Cc: p2psip@ietf.org Subject: [P2PSIP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-p2psip-concepts-04.txt X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:51:49 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Peer-to-Peer Session Initiation Proto= col Working Group of the IETF. Title : Concepts and Terminology for Peer to Peer SIP Author(s) : David A. Bryan Philip Matthews Eunsoo Shim Dean Willis Spencer Dawkins Filename : draft-ietf-p2psip-concepts-04.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2011-10-31 This document defines concepts and terminology for the use of the Session Initiation Protocol in a peer-to-peer environment where the traditional proxy-registrar and message routing functions are replaced by a distributed mechanism. These mechansims may be implemented using a distributed hash table or other distributed data mechanism with similar external properties. This document includes a high-level view of the functional relationships between the network elements defined herein, a conceptual model of operations, and an outline of the related problems addressed by the P2PSIP working group and the RELOAD protocol ([I-D.ietf-p2psip-base], [I-D.ietf-p2psip-sip]) defined by the working group. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-concepts-04.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-p2psip-concepts-04.txt From li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Mon Oct 31 23:26:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6D611E80B2 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:26:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.694, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tc136A1Md0g7 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFCC811E808E for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx5.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 566902075036648; Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:17:22 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.20] by [192.168.168.16] with StormMail ESMTP id 16073.2075036648; Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:26:02 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id pA16PunG097950 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:25:56 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from li.lichun1@zte.com.cn) To: p2psip@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 43034598:092698F9-4825793B:0020FA60; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:25:54 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.1FP4|July 25, 2010) at 2011-11-01 14:25:58, Serialize complete at 2011-11-01 14:25:58 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0023A46B4825793B_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn pA16PunG097950 Subject: [P2PSIP] New draft about routing messages to client X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 06:26:22 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0023A46B4825793B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi, all We submitted a new draft about client routing. It can be accessed at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-p2psip-client-extension-01 This draft proposes some methods of routing messages to client. Routing directly to client or client's access peer can reduce routing latency and overhead. Using multiple access peers and backup access peer can increase the reliability of client routing. To enable backup access peer, access peer is identified with resource ID instead of node ID. Comments are welcome. BR Lichun -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. --=_alternative 0023A46B4825793B_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi, all

We submitted a new draft about client routing. It can be accessed at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-p2psip-client-extension-01
This draft proposes some methods of routing messages to client. Routing directly to client or client's access peer can reduce routing latency and overhead. Using multiple access peers and backup access peer can increase the reliability of client routing. To enable backup access peer, access peer is identified with resource ID instead of node ID.

Comments are welcome.


BR
Lichun
--------------------------------------------------------
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