From nobody Sun Oct 14 12:04:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A1A130DDE for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:04:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LmLGMfQKKcSC for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5977E124D68 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id y71-v6so15521608lje.9 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:subject:to:message-id:mime-version; bh=HZv51fsiqlNTh6HqbEdLi/MVhOvA7ubx6i6rsTVU2Lg=; b=MFnZ24WmO+6yJHXcQX7MdJjSYLVsXLU22LC8AMYAj9X1gb0gVud+SzOBxnNFJ5Crfe +41sJ11oTvPqfQ6mEOQ/Jo1VntJKRVY/7SWbHGOs9MmPGsMtgBSB4iVpnNr6MHfelpna fhcVL4kObsznUDR6tIwioHpbg/vbV9M52vWiWe6c7Z9JBXHJL1PF2l02ZFMxbs061iTR SBmAew1+4cOigcPiJ0GloR7uelcCYhzEWzXyl1rvL4GjFpfXlP3Baq3d6++g9nSUR3tL Dj5P5+ZgLRXMoTMnMh8KCH9rkqkR2y6uhL8sxGtkuNkmGK/aUWUC0RCSIwad461jbxFB eqzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:subject:to:message-id:mime-version; bh=HZv51fsiqlNTh6HqbEdLi/MVhOvA7ubx6i6rsTVU2Lg=; b=AEJq7zbluG2WlSfRB0wuhEkzUGp5WZvTPi+bMJZicppBYtcu2qZ2qm43uUzzXyFlsi 25R9qlr60uwwaoP1GILHhondVGMOei7Nexz4gyONnJhH1BazMAwkhin41FmmubmBrmlW IDnu2JxxCrtgy+cJnuqjXb7WCW0jYBG//Oag1tlk+0JGp4G9CXudcmsjJ3dbMMCdYUtj YAkEUU/i9H3q4Cp4KghD/t/xa/mHsY4EiHLO68tnmeraXm1gDGw8XmrjYkn/iOHSihx4 tTLZyqxsP0Afcj/hZKnq9l0TO+rfA1sLOr1CmV6blUmk/p9R6Hrq4FxoyrbvGFTHrgl7 AxJg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojam2e7LG9zguFj/g9jJ/4MVR0zYzk0MWC7QMjhaC4LOnobCB1y jSfElMHDA0Hn7KYj1lUI5PnmV7NaGgQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV631kJcQIaQVytWfA2qzOofbOAob/zRHvD+Cg1itdzOeStA2s7hoCRXjUz35zoQvM7n25qovXQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2a43:: with SMTP id q64-v6mr8705336ljq.153.1539543881262; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([31.181.13.56]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 9-v6sm1778479lju.61.2018.10.14.12.04.40 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:04:38 +0300 From: Evgeny To: p2psip@ietf.org Message-Id: <1539543879.1981.0@smtp.gmail.com> X-Mailer: geary/0.12.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-HNh7//AVtk/VKCXlBEHx" Archived-At: Subject: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Detecting Partitioning X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 19:04:46 -0000 --=-HNh7//AVtk/VKCXlBEHx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi there I have hard time understanding the mechanism described in 10.7.4.4 (Detecting Partitioning) [1]: > P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Node-ID routed through B. > If a response is received from peer S', which is not P's successor, > then the overlay is partitioned How is it even possible? Given the Symmetric Recursive Routing, the Ping answer will always come from node B. I tried to grasp through the RFC about special routing rules of Ping answers, but I didn't find anything special except the statement in 6.1.2 (Other ID) [2] which I *fail* to understand: > The node MUST implement support for > returning responses to a Ping or Attach request made by a Joining > Node Attaching to its responsible peer "made by a Joining Node Attaching to its responsible peer"? What does that mean exactly? Why is "Attaching" with a capital letter? [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6940#section-10.7.4.4 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6940#section-6.1.2 --=-HNh7//AVtk/VKCXlBEHx Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi there

I have hard time understanding the mechanism described in 10.7.4.4 (Detecting Partitioning) [1]:

> P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Node-ID routed through B.
> If a response is received from peer S', which is not P's successor,
> then the overlay is partitioned

How is it even possible? Given the Symmetric Recursive Routing, the Ping answer will always come from node B.
I tried to grasp through the RFC about special routing rules of Ping answers, but I didn't find anything special
except the statement in 6.1.2 (Other ID) [2] which I *fail* to understand:

> The node MUST implement support for
> returning responses to a Ping or Attach request made by a Joining
> Node Attaching to its responsible peer

"made by a Joining Node At taching to its responsible peer"? What does that mean exactly? Why is "Attaching"
with a capital letter?


--=-HNh7//AVtk/VKCXlBEHx-- From nobody Sun Oct 14 15:25:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74FC130DEC for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 15:25:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.1 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q7TBTM4KH6ct for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 15:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3plsmtpa06-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa06-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDD2D12D4EA for ; 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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:13:44 +0200 (CEST) To: Evgeny , p2psip@ietf.org References: <1539543879.1981.0@smtp.gmail.com> From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=roland.bless@kit.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFi0OxABEACy2VohJ7VhSu/xPCt4/6qCrw4Pw2nSklWPfAYEk1QgrbiwgvLAP9WEhAIU w45cojBaDxytIGg8eaYeIKSmsXjHGbV/ZTfo8r11LX8yPYR0WHiMWZpl0SHUd/CZIkv2pChO 88vF/2FKN95HDcp24pwONF4VhxJoSFk6c0mDNf8Em/Glt9BcWX2AAvizTmpQDshaPje18WH3 4++KwPZDd/sJ/hHSXiPg1Gdhs/OG/C0CJguOAlqbgSVAe3qKOr1M4K5M+wVpsk373pXRfxd7 ZAmZ05iBTn+LfgVcz+AfaKKcsWri5CdTT+7JDL6QNQpox+b5FXZFSHnEIST+/qzfG7G2LqqY mml6TYY8XbaNyXZP0QKncfSpRx8uTRWReHUa1YbSuOxXYh6bXpcugD25mlC/Lu0g7tz4ijiK iIwq9+P2H1KfAAfYyYZh6nOoE6ET0TjOjUSa+mA8cqjPWX99kEEgf1Xo+P9fx9QLCLWIY7zc mSM+vjQKgdUFpMSCKcYEKOuwlPuOz8bVECafxaEtJJHjCOK8zowe2eC9OM+G+bmtAO3qYcYZ hQ/PV3sztt/PjgdtnFAYPFLc9189rHRxKsWSOb4xPkRw/YQAI9l15OlUEpsyOehxmAmTsesn tSViCz++PCdeXrQc1BCgl8nDytrxW+n5w1aaE8aL3hn8M0tonQARAQABzShSb2xhbmQgQmxl c3MgKFRNKSA8cm9sYW5kLmJsZXNzQGtpdC5lZHU+wsGABBMBCAAqAhsDBQkSzAMABQsJCAcC BhUICQoLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJYtYdHAhkBAAoJEKON2tlkOJXuzWkP+wfjUnDNzRm4r34a AMWepcQziTgqf4I1crcL6VD44767HhyFsjcKH31E5G5gTDxbpsM4pmkghKeLrpPo30YK3qb7 E9ifIkpJTvMu0StSUmcXq0zPyHZ+HxHeMWkosljG3g/4YekCqgWwrB62T7NMYq0ATQe1MGCZ TAPwSPGCUZT3ioq50800FMI8okkGTXS3h2U922em7k8rv7E349uydv19YEcS7tI78pggMdap ASoP3QWB03tzPKwjqQqSevy64uKDEa0UgvAM3PRbJxOYZlX1c3q/CdWwpwgUiAhMtPWvavWW Tcw6Kkk6e0gw4oFlDQ+hZooLv5rlYR3egdV4DPZ1ugL51u0wQCQG9qKIMXslAdmKbRDkEcWG Oi2bWAdYyIHhhQF5LSuaaxC2P2vOYRHnE5yv5KTV3V7piFgPFjKDW+giCRd7VGfod6DY2b2y zwidCMve1Qsm8+NErH6U+hMpMLeCJDMu1OOvXYbFnTkqjeg5sKipUoSdgXsIo4kl+oArZlpK qComSTPhij7rMyeu/1iOwbNCjtiqgb55ZE7Ekd84mr9sbq4Jm/4QGnVI30q4U2vdGSeNbVjo d1nqjf3UNzP2ZC+H9xjsCFuKYbCX6Yy4SSuEcubtdmdBqm13pxua4ZqPSI0DQST2CHC7nxL1 AaRGRYYh5zo2vRg3ipkEzsFNBFi0OxABEAC2CJNp0/Ivkv4KOiXxitsMXZeK9fI0NU2JU1rW 04dMLF63JF8AFiJ6qeSL2mPHoMiL+fG5jlxy050xMdpMKxnhDVdMxwPtMiGxbByfvrXu18/M B7h+E1DHYVRdFFPaL2jiw+Bvn6wTT31MiuG9Wh0WAhoW8jY8IXxKQrUn7QUOKsWhzNlvVpOo SjMiW4WXksUA0EQVbmlskS/MnFOgCr8q/FqwC81KPy+VLHPB9K/B65uQdpaw78fjAgQVQqpx H7gUF1EYpdZWyojN+V8HtLJx+9yWAZjSFO593OF3/r0nDHEycuOjhefCrqr0DDgTYUNthOdU KO2CzT7MtweRtAf0n27zbwoYvkTviIbR+1lV1vNkxaUtZ6e1rtOxvonRM1O3ddFIzRp/Qufu HfPe0YqhEsrBIGW1aE/pZW8khNQlB6qt20snL9cFDrnB6+8kDG3e//OjK1ICQj9Y/yyrJVaX KfPbdHhLpsgh8TMDPoH+XXQlDJljMD0++/o7ckO3Sfa8Zsyh1WabyKQDYXDmDgi9lCoaQ7Lf uLUpoMvJV+EWo0jE4RW/wBGQbLJp5usy5i0fhBKuDwsKdLG3qOCf4depIcNuja6ZmZHRT+3R FFjvZ/dAhrCWpRTxZANlWlLZz6htToJulAZQJD6lcpVr7EVgDX/y4cNwKF79egWXPDPOvQAR AQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJYtDsQAhsMBQkSzAMAAAoJEKON2tlkOJXukMoP/jNeiglj8fenH2We 7SJuyBp8+5L3n8eNwfwY5C5G+etD0E6/lkt/Jj9UddTazxeB154rVFXRzmcN3+hGCOZgGAyV 1N7d8xM6dBqRtHmRMPu5fUxfSqrM9pmqAw2gmzAe0eztVvaM+x5x5xID2WZOiOq8dx9KOKrp Zorekjs3GEA3V1wlZ7Nksx/o8KZ04hLeKcR1r06zEDLN/yA+Fz8IPa0KqpuhrL010bQDgAhe 9o5TA0/cMJpxpLqHhX2As+5cQAhKDDsWJu3oBzZRkN7Hh/HTpWurmTQRRniLGSeiL0zdtilX fowyxGXH6QWi3MZYmpOq+etr7o4EGGbm2inxpVbM+NYmaJs+MAi/z5bsO/rABwdM5ysm8hwb CGt+1oEMORyMcUk/uRjclgTZM1NhGoXm1Un67+Rehu04i7DA6b8dd1H8AFgZSO2H4IKi+5yA Ldmo+ftCJS83Nf6Wi6hJnKG9aWQjKL+qmZqBEct/D2uRJGWAERU5+D0RwNV/i9lQFCYNjG9X Tew0BPYYnBtHFlz9rJTqGhDu4ubulSkbxAK3TIk8XzKdMvef3tV/7mJCmcaVbJ2YoNUtkdKJ goOigJTMBXMRu4Ibyq1Ei+d90lxhojKKlf9yguzpxk5KYFGUizp0dtvdNuXRBtYrwzykS6vB zTlLqHZ0pvGjNfTSvuuN Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:13:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1539543879.1981.0@smtp.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1539587625.044189104 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Detecting Partitioning X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:13:51 -0000 Hi Evgeny, Am 14.10.2018 um 21:04 schrieb Evgeny: > I have hard time understanding the mechanism described in 10.7.4.4 > (Detecting Partitioning) [1]: > >> P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Node-ID routed through B. >> If a response is received from peer S', which is not P's successor, >> then the overlay is partitioned > > How is it even possible? Given the Symmetric Recursive Routing, the Ping > answer will always come from node B. Yes, the last hop forwarding the answer will be B, but the originating node from the other end (i.e., the one answering the ping request) is a different node than P's current successor. > I tried to grasp through the RFC about special routing rules of Ping > answers, but I didn't find anything special > except the statement in 6.1.2 (Other ID) [2] which I *fail* to understand: > >> The node MUST implement support for >> returning responses to a Ping or Attach request made by a Joining >> Node Attaching to its responsible peer > > "made by a Joining Node At taching to its responsible peer"? What does > that mean exactly? Why is "Attaching" > with a capital letter? That may be best understood by looking at Figure 1 on page 139 and/or section 10.5. The Joining Node sends an AttachReq to its own ID+1 (this process is probably denoted as "Attaching"). The Admitting Peer (AP) and responsible peer are the same in this case, it will be the successor of the newly joining node. Does this make sense? Regards, Roland From nobody Mon Oct 15 00:57:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24DD130DCE for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:57:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TYsnHN3GbcD8 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3182130DBE for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id p143-v6so2332850lfp.13 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:56:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:subject:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=LhmndSphHcdXBvmyWvnSi/JdaiP+TYhtNp5o6/tSNzQ=; b=j52GwXOm1MpKSVqNNMEf8STy1/0Fhj1xkD6CJm74ikmK5wEijorcyM8U4uunHP8/qy /EpC5YSbzxbsr0g2buwnFRCwiojXCJiArBYTuByYZrsoltpk8lzKe52F3nEw5PeSmGnX DdSvnjKFkdS0aNX6ZfZwinodIp3VI928gymO2G5k2FgyJMkbOTpIQpHkLWy+nAp8ncp+ 3UD2bdm4zN2WkkBlOZKOSgtDf43J9sNR42ISpD9UxY/yibu5skfc2N5XJqSOYDju5AY3 XPQ2Qm5yWqjaxpFORR1PbA9rMM7cz1/NtEQ6FkNWGhUT34wwv9p12+Hl6sWA4FGP2o07 TpDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:subject:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version; bh=LhmndSphHcdXBvmyWvnSi/JdaiP+TYhtNp5o6/tSNzQ=; b=jHSSqrWlIe9lmjaqrFZD5p5l00SoPT/pwpJFTbHsJC7zbr+3/JnP0FIrbKruhRZ2iW mbvzMXK0TZzZ7hdZsUctx2KTzRYUvIEeL9QXeWFZIUjjBYVmeUa3eXi4R0/fOJHv+ZxZ t7cqkNvh/0gMj4Vz1frQAPzs88iM8rVH9ZEUTd7oMpWk3MtW0F7t6Buo7wGy8eNwSJIN ZjN7KVKNEWC5jN0gQ5QcnovEwA7eFXjH8I1KB2mCGPOhERY8eNgU3XgDYSzhMbX5o+X8 VPrqrj4V1e+DvYI29DE3uSYJu9l59qZoxwLyQGKQ6xS81qq2zFPYasl/M0XMzmUia6t3 719A== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoifB0RSBezxPcI/MftJkipYr6XA5WqqQtDDU4otvmE76ariT+iT psbK0ZEtYh5XAXkWu0PUNTa/Jgu8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61s8gnVYOYXUSIBo7v807vSYRDpeQWORfHN+3DprYwjEKVWuZEyEjBRJ49JSa56b5eOan1y9g== X-Received: by 2002:a19:9b12:: with SMTP id d18-v6mr9478600lfe.132.1539590216678; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([31.181.13.56]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t6-v6sm2161656ljd.2.2018.10.15.00.56.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:56:54 +0300 From: Evgeny To: p2psip@ietf.org Message-Id: <1539590214.1981.2@smtp.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <1539543879.1981.0@smtp.gmail.com> X-Mailer: geary/0.12.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Detecting Partitioning X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:57:01 -0000 On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Bless, Roland (TM) wrote: > Yes, the last hop forwarding the answer will be B, but the originating > node from the other end (i.e., the one answering the ping request) is > a > different node than P's current successor. "the one answering the ping request"? But this will be my node answering the ping request. Ok, I'm lost. Let's consider the PingReq path: my_node -> boot_node -> ... -> node_X -> my_node The corresponding PingAns will be: my_node -> node_X -> ... -> boot_node -> my_node So the idea is to check if node_X is the successor of my_node, right? In this case I don't understand how to get that node from the answer: forwarding nodes are not required to maintain Via lists, or they can just hide the path by OpaqueID. Should I maintain some state on my node to do these checks? > That may be best understood by looking at Figure 1 on page 139 and/or > section 10.5. > The Joining Node sends an AttachReq to its own ID+1 (this process > is probably denoted as "Attaching"). The Admitting Peer (AP) and > responsible peer are the same in this case, it will be the successor > of the newly joining node. Does this make sense? Yes, this makes sense, and this is trivial, but it's hard to understand from that phrase. Whatever, thanks for the clarification. From nobody Mon Oct 15 18:00:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880321274D0 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 18:00:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.1 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wNGERAaS9z3n for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 18:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3plsmtpa11-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa11-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [68.178.252.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45079127332 for ; 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16 Oct 2018 02:35:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Originating-IP: 172.251.133.5 User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 6.9.49 Message-Id: <20181015193518.59ca11a9ba9389561a029f06442e67fa.84e53d5d79.wbe@email03.godaddy.com> From: "Michael Chen" To: "Evgeny" , p2psip@ietf.org Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:35:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJY0EB/HL7yZWz8HsYXIk1BpESfoRutKC8JFns114c0D6chvfvm2+5dbFRfz6uPwDDCHXxcYMihiP1Oun1P6482S41qLHKe75qv5zYdS90R/p/vlSOlx EwhIg7g6wjzz6nWy5zcq2NQPs+lEA0r4XTmXZ+C/p44jan5SHVWd6WOUkrsbfMAQn/WJY5qtU8X1+zhiZ66DOS4EqBXGbOdEbWY= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Detecting Partitioning X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 02:35:52 -0000 =0A=0A> -------- Original Message --------=0A> Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RFC694= 0: Detecting Partitioning=0A> From: Evgeny =0A> Date: M= on, October 15, 2018 12:56 am=0A> To: p2psip@ietf.org=0A> =0A> =0A> On Mon,= Oct 15, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Bless, Roland (TM) =0A> w= rote:=0A> > Yes, the last hop forwarding the answer will be B, but the orig= inating=0A> > node from the other end (i.e., the one answering the ping req= uest) is =0A> > a=0A> > different node than P's current successor.=0A> =0A>= "the one answering the ping request"? But this will be my node =0A> answer= ing the ping request.=0A> Ok, I'm lost. Let's consider the PingReq path:=0A= > =0A> my_node -> boot_node -> ... -> node_X -> my_node=0A> =0A> The corres= ponding PingAns will be:=0A> =0A> my_node -> node_X -> ... -> boot_node -> = my_node=0A=0ANo, but congratulation, you just discovered a new erratum. The= partition=0Acheck 10.7.4.4 says, "repeat the discovery process used in the= initial=0Ajoin", which refers to the 2nd paragraph after 10.5.9:=0A=0A = "It SHOULD send a Ping directed at Resource-ID n+1 (directly after=0Aits ow= n Resource-ID)."=0A=0ASection 10.7.4.4 incorrectly used the term "Node-ID".= It should be:=0A=0A "P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Resource-ID = n+1 routed=0Athrough B."=0A=0ADestination Resource-ID n+1 ensures that it w= ill only be answered by the=0Asuccessor of the requester.=0A=0AThanks=0A=0A= --Michael From nobody Mon Oct 15 19:47:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E56127AC2 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ibdEtx-sFU9x for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A20E127333 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id BF7E6B8083B; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT) To: fluffy@cisco.com, bbl@lowekamp.net, ekr@rtfm.com, salman@cs.columbia.edu, hgs@cs.columbia.edu, ben@nostrum.com, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm, adam@nostrum.com, br@brianrosen.net, cjbc@it.uc3m.es X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: michaelc@idssoftware.com, p2psip@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20181016024647.BF7E6B8083B@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [P2PSIP] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6940 (5530) X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 02:47:13 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6940, "REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD) Base Protocol". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5530 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Michael Chen Section: 10.7.4.4 Original Text ------------- P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Node-ID routed through B. Corrected Text -------------- P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Resource-ID n+1 routed through B. Notes ----- 10.7.4.4 says, "repeat the discovery process used in the initial join", which refers to the 2nd paragraph after 10.5.9: "It SHOULD send a Ping directed at Resource-ID n+1 (directly after its own Resource-ID)." Ping Node-ID is simply wrong. This correction makes it consistent with 10.5.9. Credit goes to xramtsov in the mailing list. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC6940 (draft-ietf-p2psip-base-26) -------------------------------------- Title : REsource LOcation And Discovery (RELOAD) Base Protocol Publication Date : January 2014 Author(s) : C. Jennings, B. Lowekamp, Ed., E. Rescorla, S. Baset, H. Schulzrinne Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Peer-to-Peer Session Initiation Protocol RAI Area : Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Tue Oct 16 00:15:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97F212D4EA for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gHQTVdXETfFK for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF5E312D4E6 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i72vorta.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.26] helo=i72vorta.tm.kit.edu) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp port 25 iface 141.3.10.81 id 1gCJZR-0007S9-F8; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:15:13 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by i72vorta.tm.kit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67379420494; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:15:13 +0200 (CEST) To: Evgeny , p2psip@ietf.org References: <1539543879.1981.0@smtp.gmail.com> <1539590214.1981.2@smtp.gmail.com> From: Roland Bless Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=roland.bless@kit.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFi0OxABEACy2VohJ7VhSu/xPCt4/6qCrw4Pw2nSklWPfAYEk1QgrbiwgvLAP9WEhAIU w45cojBaDxytIGg8eaYeIKSmsXjHGbV/ZTfo8r11LX8yPYR0WHiMWZpl0SHUd/CZIkv2pChO 88vF/2FKN95HDcp24pwONF4VhxJoSFk6c0mDNf8Em/Glt9BcWX2AAvizTmpQDshaPje18WH3 4++KwPZDd/sJ/hHSXiPg1Gdhs/OG/C0CJguOAlqbgSVAe3qKOr1M4K5M+wVpsk373pXRfxd7 ZAmZ05iBTn+LfgVcz+AfaKKcsWri5CdTT+7JDL6QNQpox+b5FXZFSHnEIST+/qzfG7G2LqqY mml6TYY8XbaNyXZP0QKncfSpRx8uTRWReHUa1YbSuOxXYh6bXpcugD25mlC/Lu0g7tz4ijiK iIwq9+P2H1KfAAfYyYZh6nOoE6ET0TjOjUSa+mA8cqjPWX99kEEgf1Xo+P9fx9QLCLWIY7zc mSM+vjQKgdUFpMSCKcYEKOuwlPuOz8bVECafxaEtJJHjCOK8zowe2eC9OM+G+bmtAO3qYcYZ hQ/PV3sztt/PjgdtnFAYPFLc9189rHRxKsWSOb4xPkRw/YQAI9l15OlUEpsyOehxmAmTsesn tSViCz++PCdeXrQc1BCgl8nDytrxW+n5w1aaE8aL3hn8M0tonQARAQABzShSb2xhbmQgQmxl c3MgKFRNKSA8cm9sYW5kLmJsZXNzQGtpdC5lZHU+wsGABBMBCAAqAhsDBQkSzAMABQsJCAcC BhUICQoLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJYtYdHAhkBAAoJEKON2tlkOJXuzWkP+wfjUnDNzRm4r34a AMWepcQziTgqf4I1crcL6VD44767HhyFsjcKH31E5G5gTDxbpsM4pmkghKeLrpPo30YK3qb7 E9ifIkpJTvMu0StSUmcXq0zPyHZ+HxHeMWkosljG3g/4YekCqgWwrB62T7NMYq0ATQe1MGCZ TAPwSPGCUZT3ioq50800FMI8okkGTXS3h2U922em7k8rv7E349uydv19YEcS7tI78pggMdap ASoP3QWB03tzPKwjqQqSevy64uKDEa0UgvAM3PRbJxOYZlX1c3q/CdWwpwgUiAhMtPWvavWW Tcw6Kkk6e0gw4oFlDQ+hZooLv5rlYR3egdV4DPZ1ugL51u0wQCQG9qKIMXslAdmKbRDkEcWG Oi2bWAdYyIHhhQF5LSuaaxC2P2vOYRHnE5yv5KTV3V7piFgPFjKDW+giCRd7VGfod6DY2b2y zwidCMve1Qsm8+NErH6U+hMpMLeCJDMu1OOvXYbFnTkqjeg5sKipUoSdgXsIo4kl+oArZlpK qComSTPhij7rMyeu/1iOwbNCjtiqgb55ZE7Ekd84mr9sbq4Jm/4QGnVI30q4U2vdGSeNbVjo d1nqjf3UNzP2ZC+H9xjsCFuKYbCX6Yy4SSuEcubtdmdBqm13pxua4ZqPSI0DQST2CHC7nxL1 AaRGRYYh5zo2vRg3ipkEzsFNBFi0OxABEAC2CJNp0/Ivkv4KOiXxitsMXZeK9fI0NU2JU1rW 04dMLF63JF8AFiJ6qeSL2mPHoMiL+fG5jlxy050xMdpMKxnhDVdMxwPtMiGxbByfvrXu18/M B7h+E1DHYVRdFFPaL2jiw+Bvn6wTT31MiuG9Wh0WAhoW8jY8IXxKQrUn7QUOKsWhzNlvVpOo SjMiW4WXksUA0EQVbmlskS/MnFOgCr8q/FqwC81KPy+VLHPB9K/B65uQdpaw78fjAgQVQqpx H7gUF1EYpdZWyojN+V8HtLJx+9yWAZjSFO593OF3/r0nDHEycuOjhefCrqr0DDgTYUNthOdU KO2CzT7MtweRtAf0n27zbwoYvkTviIbR+1lV1vNkxaUtZ6e1rtOxvonRM1O3ddFIzRp/Qufu HfPe0YqhEsrBIGW1aE/pZW8khNQlB6qt20snL9cFDrnB6+8kDG3e//OjK1ICQj9Y/yyrJVaX KfPbdHhLpsgh8TMDPoH+XXQlDJljMD0++/o7ckO3Sfa8Zsyh1WabyKQDYXDmDgi9lCoaQ7Lf uLUpoMvJV+EWo0jE4RW/wBGQbLJp5usy5i0fhBKuDwsKdLG3qOCf4depIcNuja6ZmZHRT+3R FFjvZ/dAhrCWpRTxZANlWlLZz6htToJulAZQJD6lcpVr7EVgDX/y4cNwKF79egWXPDPOvQAR AQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJYtDsQAhsMBQkSzAMAAAoJEKON2tlkOJXukMoP/jNeiglj8fenH2We 7SJuyBp8+5L3n8eNwfwY5C5G+etD0E6/lkt/Jj9UddTazxeB154rVFXRzmcN3+hGCOZgGAyV 1N7d8xM6dBqRtHmRMPu5fUxfSqrM9pmqAw2gmzAe0eztVvaM+x5x5xID2WZOiOq8dx9KOKrp Zorekjs3GEA3V1wlZ7Nksx/o8KZ04hLeKcR1r06zEDLN/yA+Fz8IPa0KqpuhrL010bQDgAhe 9o5TA0/cMJpxpLqHhX2As+5cQAhKDDsWJu3oBzZRkN7Hh/HTpWurmTQRRniLGSeiL0zdtilX fowyxGXH6QWi3MZYmpOq+etr7o4EGGbm2inxpVbM+NYmaJs+MAi/z5bsO/rABwdM5ysm8hwb CGt+1oEMORyMcUk/uRjclgTZM1NhGoXm1Un67+Rehu04i7DA6b8dd1H8AFgZSO2H4IKi+5yA Ldmo+ftCJS83Nf6Wi6hJnKG9aWQjKL+qmZqBEct/D2uRJGWAERU5+D0RwNV/i9lQFCYNjG9X Tew0BPYYnBtHFlz9rJTqGhDu4ubulSkbxAK3TIk8XzKdMvef3tV/7mJCmcaVbJ2YoNUtkdKJ goOigJTMBXMRu4Ibyq1Ei+d90lxhojKKlf9yguzpxk5KYFGUizp0dtvdNuXRBtYrwzykS6vB zTlLqHZ0pvGjNfTSvuuN Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:15:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1539590214.1981.2@smtp.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1539674113.521175235 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Detecting Partitioning X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:15:19 -0000 Hi Evgeny, On 15.10.2018 at 09:56 Evgeny wrote: > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Bless, Roland (TM) > wrote: >> Yes, the last hop forwarding the answer will be B, but the originating >> node from the other end (i.e., the one answering the ping request) is a >> different node than P's current successor. > > "the one answering the ping request"? But this will be my node answering > the ping request. No, your successor should answer the request, as one should ping own ID+1. This seems to be inconsistent with the RFC: "P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Node-ID routed through B." Own Node-ID would not work and the initial join procedure in sec. 10.5 says "JN SHOULD send an Attach request to the Admitting Peer (AP) for Resource-ID n+1" So Michael already filed an errata. > Ok, I'm lost. Let's consider the PingReq path: > > my_node -> boot_node -> ... -> node_X -> my_node > > The corresponding PingAns will be: > > my_node -> node_X -> ... -> boot_node -> my_node > > So the idea is to check if node_X is the successor of my_node, right? > In this case I don't understand how to get that node from the answer: > forwarding nodes > are not required to maintain Via lists, or they can just hide the path > by OpaqueID. > Should I maintain some state on my node to do these checks? The originator of the reply message can be found in the identity part of the signature block. >> That may be best understood by looking at Figure 1 on page 139 and/or >> section 10.5. >> The Joining Node sends an AttachReq to its own ID+1 (this process >> is probably denoted as "Attaching"). The Admitting Peer (AP) and >> responsible peer are the same in this case, it will be the successor >> of the newly joining node. Does this make sense? > > Yes, this makes sense, and this is trivial, but it's hard to understand > from that phrase. > Whatever, thanks for the clarification. > Regards, Roland From nobody Tue Oct 16 00:24:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334A412D4E6 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:24:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jvsLOnxd9Wip for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8D34128CF3 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i72vorta.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.26] helo=i72vorta.tm.kit.edu) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp port 25 iface 141.3.10.81 id 1gCJiD-0008HS-T4; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:24:17 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by i72vorta.tm.kit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D08F6420494; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:24:17 +0200 (CEST) To: RFC Errata System , fluffy@cisco.com, bbl@lowekamp.net, ekr@rtfm.com, salman@cs.columbia.edu, hgs@cs.columbia.edu, ben@nostrum.com, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm, adam@nostrum.com, br@brianrosen.net, cjbc@it.uc3m.es Cc: p2psip@ietf.org References: <20181016024647.BF7E6B8083B@rfc-editor.org> From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=roland.bless@kit.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFi0OxABEACy2VohJ7VhSu/xPCt4/6qCrw4Pw2nSklWPfAYEk1QgrbiwgvLAP9WEhAIU w45cojBaDxytIGg8eaYeIKSmsXjHGbV/ZTfo8r11LX8yPYR0WHiMWZpl0SHUd/CZIkv2pChO 88vF/2FKN95HDcp24pwONF4VhxJoSFk6c0mDNf8Em/Glt9BcWX2AAvizTmpQDshaPje18WH3 4++KwPZDd/sJ/hHSXiPg1Gdhs/OG/C0CJguOAlqbgSVAe3qKOr1M4K5M+wVpsk373pXRfxd7 ZAmZ05iBTn+LfgVcz+AfaKKcsWri5CdTT+7JDL6QNQpox+b5FXZFSHnEIST+/qzfG7G2LqqY mml6TYY8XbaNyXZP0QKncfSpRx8uTRWReHUa1YbSuOxXYh6bXpcugD25mlC/Lu0g7tz4ijiK iIwq9+P2H1KfAAfYyYZh6nOoE6ET0TjOjUSa+mA8cqjPWX99kEEgf1Xo+P9fx9QLCLWIY7zc mSM+vjQKgdUFpMSCKcYEKOuwlPuOz8bVECafxaEtJJHjCOK8zowe2eC9OM+G+bmtAO3qYcYZ hQ/PV3sztt/PjgdtnFAYPFLc9189rHRxKsWSOb4xPkRw/YQAI9l15OlUEpsyOehxmAmTsesn tSViCz++PCdeXrQc1BCgl8nDytrxW+n5w1aaE8aL3hn8M0tonQARAQABzShSb2xhbmQgQmxl c3MgKFRNKSA8cm9sYW5kLmJsZXNzQGtpdC5lZHU+wsGABBMBCAAqAhsDBQkSzAMABQsJCAcC BhUICQoLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJYtYdHAhkBAAoJEKON2tlkOJXuzWkP+wfjUnDNzRm4r34a AMWepcQziTgqf4I1crcL6VD44767HhyFsjcKH31E5G5gTDxbpsM4pmkghKeLrpPo30YK3qb7 E9ifIkpJTvMu0StSUmcXq0zPyHZ+HxHeMWkosljG3g/4YekCqgWwrB62T7NMYq0ATQe1MGCZ TAPwSPGCUZT3ioq50800FMI8okkGTXS3h2U922em7k8rv7E349uydv19YEcS7tI78pggMdap ASoP3QWB03tzPKwjqQqSevy64uKDEa0UgvAM3PRbJxOYZlX1c3q/CdWwpwgUiAhMtPWvavWW Tcw6Kkk6e0gw4oFlDQ+hZooLv5rlYR3egdV4DPZ1ugL51u0wQCQG9qKIMXslAdmKbRDkEcWG Oi2bWAdYyIHhhQF5LSuaaxC2P2vOYRHnE5yv5KTV3V7piFgPFjKDW+giCRd7VGfod6DY2b2y zwidCMve1Qsm8+NErH6U+hMpMLeCJDMu1OOvXYbFnTkqjeg5sKipUoSdgXsIo4kl+oArZlpK qComSTPhij7rMyeu/1iOwbNCjtiqgb55ZE7Ekd84mr9sbq4Jm/4QGnVI30q4U2vdGSeNbVjo d1nqjf3UNzP2ZC+H9xjsCFuKYbCX6Yy4SSuEcubtdmdBqm13pxua4ZqPSI0DQST2CHC7nxL1 AaRGRYYh5zo2vRg3ipkEzsFNBFi0OxABEAC2CJNp0/Ivkv4KOiXxitsMXZeK9fI0NU2JU1rW 04dMLF63JF8AFiJ6qeSL2mPHoMiL+fG5jlxy050xMdpMKxnhDVdMxwPtMiGxbByfvrXu18/M B7h+E1DHYVRdFFPaL2jiw+Bvn6wTT31MiuG9Wh0WAhoW8jY8IXxKQrUn7QUOKsWhzNlvVpOo SjMiW4WXksUA0EQVbmlskS/MnFOgCr8q/FqwC81KPy+VLHPB9K/B65uQdpaw78fjAgQVQqpx H7gUF1EYpdZWyojN+V8HtLJx+9yWAZjSFO593OF3/r0nDHEycuOjhefCrqr0DDgTYUNthOdU KO2CzT7MtweRtAf0n27zbwoYvkTviIbR+1lV1vNkxaUtZ6e1rtOxvonRM1O3ddFIzRp/Qufu HfPe0YqhEsrBIGW1aE/pZW8khNQlB6qt20snL9cFDrnB6+8kDG3e//OjK1ICQj9Y/yyrJVaX KfPbdHhLpsgh8TMDPoH+XXQlDJljMD0++/o7ckO3Sfa8Zsyh1WabyKQDYXDmDgi9lCoaQ7Lf uLUpoMvJV+EWo0jE4RW/wBGQbLJp5usy5i0fhBKuDwsKdLG3qOCf4depIcNuja6ZmZHRT+3R FFjvZ/dAhrCWpRTxZANlWlLZz6htToJulAZQJD6lcpVr7EVgDX/y4cNwKF79egWXPDPOvQAR AQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJYtDsQAhsMBQkSzAMAAAoJEKON2tlkOJXukMoP/jNeiglj8fenH2We 7SJuyBp8+5L3n8eNwfwY5C5G+etD0E6/lkt/Jj9UddTazxeB154rVFXRzmcN3+hGCOZgGAyV 1N7d8xM6dBqRtHmRMPu5fUxfSqrM9pmqAw2gmzAe0eztVvaM+x5x5xID2WZOiOq8dx9KOKrp Zorekjs3GEA3V1wlZ7Nksx/o8KZ04hLeKcR1r06zEDLN/yA+Fz8IPa0KqpuhrL010bQDgAhe 9o5TA0/cMJpxpLqHhX2As+5cQAhKDDsWJu3oBzZRkN7Hh/HTpWurmTQRRniLGSeiL0zdtilX fowyxGXH6QWi3MZYmpOq+etr7o4EGGbm2inxpVbM+NYmaJs+MAi/z5bsO/rABwdM5ysm8hwb CGt+1oEMORyMcUk/uRjclgTZM1NhGoXm1Un67+Rehu04i7DA6b8dd1H8AFgZSO2H4IKi+5yA Ldmo+ftCJS83Nf6Wi6hJnKG9aWQjKL+qmZqBEct/D2uRJGWAERU5+D0RwNV/i9lQFCYNjG9X Tew0BPYYnBtHFlz9rJTqGhDu4ubulSkbxAK3TIk8XzKdMvef3tV/7mJCmcaVbJ2YoNUtkdKJ goOigJTMBXMRu4Ibyq1Ei+d90lxhojKKlf9yguzpxk5KYFGUizp0dtvdNuXRBtYrwzykS6vB zTlLqHZ0pvGjNfTSvuuN Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:24:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181016024647.BF7E6B8083B@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1539674657.987598193 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6940 (5530) X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:24:38 -0000 Dear all, > Corrected Text > -------------- > P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Resource-ID n+1 routed through B. this should rather read: P SHOULD then send a Ping for Resource-ID n+1 routed through B, where n is P's own Node-ID. IMHO "own Resource-ID n+1" is a bit confusing, because P is not the responsible peer for n+1. What is meant is (own Resource-ID n)+1, but that is hard to get from the text. Regards Roland From nobody Tue Oct 16 00:34:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9574712D4EA for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n4rySg_KaWrq for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 941EB1292AD for ; 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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([31.181.13.56]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z5-v6sm3023903lji.65.2018.10.16.00.52.35 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:52:34 +0300 From: Evgeny To: p2psip@ietf.org Message-Id: <1539676354.1194.1@smtp.gmail.com> X-Mailer: geary/0.12.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Chord total order definition X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:52:41 -0000 Hi, IETF people! :) Excuse my ignorance: I'm not a big specialist in Chord or DHTs in general. I would like to clarify one thing: How is the total order [1] defined in the Chord ring? Is it a simple order of integer numbers? But in this case some nodes (the ones "closest to zero") will not have successors or predecessors and, thus, the ring will always be partitioned. If the order is defined using the "wrapping around zero", then any i'th successor of node X will be its j'th predecessor and, thus, for example, if there are only 3 nodes (besides X) and node X needs to keep 3 successors and 3 predecessors, then X's successors list will be equal to its predecessors list? In other words, could someone please provide the exact definition, like: x < y <=> when? I feel, this is not an internal implementation detail, because a node needs to send its neighbors list and fingers table, so this should be interoperable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_order From nobody Tue Oct 16 08:13:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C654B130DC5 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:13:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ba4P87koQEiE for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21DDC12D4EE for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id 63-v6so21259344ljs.4 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:13:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:subject:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=tR3tYI3BAhJoubyOHaFwUVv/Su/ikGhz54Moki/JJp8=; b=VIw2KzCzoYKQ9vNoM8smjw+FHePF1HlqfCbNKVV1oNj4UO0cTvKArjFm+x3LZpkHRf CoGRxda0H7Y6uAdYiNX22zD6hpXY/7YNLXnhrUco/SdGRZyakcIIpHOY2rGRtUY8eicy +Lo7GQt26z+gsv9hAGO/hr2H+IVazqRhEh0VhaPqXcC1AC+m0TNqX0oxgu9WmPVRkAKn YKi51XdlIiiCJSC2IaSTnyWLoGsTTJL1tuTSqP/eRiZJ1E4HnoudcjCbSlNcpReVFAdP 7vMh1fo0GAjzd8dftPT5jYK+ykWpwgO1LUGxmVZbXSlripuOeZL8RElIyJL02eaMaGbB X1gQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:subject:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version; bh=tR3tYI3BAhJoubyOHaFwUVv/Su/ikGhz54Moki/JJp8=; b=BEK2pLDqtq3rP3BjMpp27rxQseK+YjwIIHwrf/mVUSBANXwgp3xJW2oPL1hytIIUAO g1sUiL98ES4x7SH8MNytuLLVyAwPD/TxlYSgy8xQWtpLvY7kVeebSvzths4H07PJaMrB I5GnbTlU4LXxJhmMJPSr9pccq0FKUj+Gt/9lkFQZll4a85uOi8LsGXoYeHIemf/Qy8aL Q9svXArWIHP54mNAHtTFcwvP4IYpjUdN65chKIYLWPPUGzWYmjI3PeA878mZpOp3q4Hx xuEiBXEzPjQQPPMYTDtCaJIoc1a/O+5s+GzgvHq2SJCnKLyvF3p2nmpnO1SxKv0CAQJW p7LQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohkQgYeQ1vN9CTuYwRh2Jet6SzNK1Wwuq3ghcF+9tE5PhEXVs9z EfXlWeU4HlPd8bIMi8Rlki3v03Z6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60Q2JQbbzC4ApFaglxNe9Zk872Y51Wj0UgfyOr25+DJ0kwgpHcKjtyPtzqNKMBAZXQlGPn6lQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:20da:: with SMTP id g87-v6mr12532322lji.88.1539702813924; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([5.138.254.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b132-v6sm3113023lfe.56.2018.10.16.08.13.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:13:31 +0300 From: Evgeny To: p2psip@ietf.org Message-Id: <1539702811.1194.2@smtp.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20181016080307.59ca11a9ba9389561a029f06442e67fa.6962141622.wbe@email03.godad dy.com> References: <20181016080307.59ca11a9ba9389561a029f06442e67fa.6962141622.wbe@email03.godaddy.com> X-Mailer: geary/0.12.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] RFC6940: Chord total order definition X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:13:38 -0000 > You have to use modulus math when you think of the Chord ring. For > example, if the node ID size is 8 bits, the ring has at most 256 > nodes. > The node 0x00h successor is node 0x01, and the node 0x00 predecessor > is > node 0xff. The ring is continuous from 0xff to 0x00, which is no > different than any two nodes in the ring. So, if there is a single node 0x80 and 0x00 is joining, then 0x80 will be both a predecessor and a successor for node 0x00? So it should be put in both lists? Then, when a node 0x01 is joining then it will have predecessors list [0x00, 0x80] == successors list [0x00, 0x80]? Does it make sense? From nobody Tue Oct 16 09:41:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: p2psip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0D4130DC9 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:41:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U_9pLWSdvUBJ for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30505130DFD for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.27] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9GGf1r6061182 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:41:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.27] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D95917E8-A78B-4B98-903F-701AD6EEFC77"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:41:01 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: RFC Errata System , Cullen Jennings , bbl@lowekamp.net, ekr@rtfm.com, salman@cs.columbia.edu, hgs@cs.columbia.edu, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm, Adam Roach , br@brianrosen.net, cjbc@it.uc3m.es, p2psip@ietf.org To: "Bless, Roland (TM)" References: <20181016024647.BF7E6B8083B@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6940 (5530) X-BeenThere: p2psip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Peer-to-Peer SIP working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:41:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D95917E8-A78B-4B98-903F-701AD6EEFC77 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is anyone aware of interop issues or implementation errors likely caused = by this? Thanks! Ben. > On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:24 AM, Bless, Roland (TM) = wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 >> Corrected Text >> -------------- >> P SHOULD then send a Ping for its own Resource-ID n+1 routed through = B. >=20 > this should rather read: >=20 > P SHOULD then send a Ping for Resource-ID n+1 routed through B, where = n > is P's own Node-ID. >=20 > IMHO "own Resource-ID n+1" is a bit confusing, because P is not the > responsible peer for n+1. What is meant is (own Resource-ID n)+1, but > that is hard to get from the text. >=20 > Regards > Roland --Apple-Mail=_D95917E8-A78B-4B98-903F-701AD6EEFC77 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlvGFJ0ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1Y4w//Qr6m4O/fVOGexWl9lLyhJx6G30JK57CTbU4YXgWZGLuTAScmPnySkyS4 6m17HPU7ahbKCFiXdrJAW4eMe/hgrZXhsvfDbQMCjSuHJUM6hOpOS+BZxEZWR4Xj /WB8Ws5cYx51//BQArNu5+UdOXUXitiSv75ol2npeDdwG8umzOmTD/kXVze4VcmG SPQKLT/b4U12ot0Cxbkkie368lNIgHZhcgdMTk/kyyXfBcDkh7OgNCYkHcATe6uZ Lzq6Xs81G5pp2U8iyt0gfRohBybnZYEaIbKcq4adsFr0Juum90ug9voWQpS5jn+E dQG7d1rkGrUtDnj415MnDLkM6BBYxQj8S9XUNJxFLS5c+V3pbiIM3gXnLbUzG7fI 8t5NDMSPR2cgd91LV5TktwJkgcIlkwCIlP6stbGc95mzcv5rsjmuYfmy83xPcp0e 0b7pqyuGM8VuPLbjqRNoG9WpUvjGLuMtsbLP+x7XFFuMYSKHZdcUG5s58Fnw0SQf d/TYP//QYVVSUk46+vM/KtquDKFnuOABHXaP8wMBR5TxosPih4ZxAVeP7ovsTav/ IR4z8eQrz7xr4jTw12kvaqP3IlPDVSfeOie+hDSd5khsVW0z4UWG1nWynsIr2Oqz L4fRYq/y56N3PFGGd1AtTaUCQ66EzJZyGIcokRpDmebS1kXWdks= =kG7R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D95917E8-A78B-4B98-903F-701AD6EEFC77--