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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 09:25:18 +0200
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Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" <l2vpn@ietf.org>, David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>, "pwe3@ietf.org" <pwe3@ietf.org>, Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
Subject: [Pals] PALS WG on its way ....
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If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the expectation is
that PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks, and will meet
in Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN, Wednesday at
13:00. Our WG Secretary, David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda
items. For those of you that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be
presenting at PALS instead. For those of you that were planning to present
at L2VPN, you may be presenting at PALS or at BESS, the latter primarily
for EVPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any questions.

We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward. My
understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been
auto-subscribed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on
the PWE3 list, you have to sign up for the PALS list on your own. The
relevant information for the list is:

List address: pals@ietf.org
Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals

Thanks,
Andy

--001a1135258088a4f805059945e1
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<div dir=3D"ltr">If you haven&#39;t been following Adrian&#39;s recent emai=
ls, the expectation is that PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in t=
wo weeks, and will meet in Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved f=
or L2VPN, Wednesday at 13:00. Our WG Secretary, David Sinicrope, will be is=
suing a call for agenda items. For those of you that were planning to prese=
nt at PWE3, you&#39;ll be presenting at PALS instead. For those of you that=
 were planning to present at L2VPN, you may be presenting at PALS or at BES=
S, the latter primarily for EVPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if =
you have any questions.<div><br></div><div>We would also like to start usin=
g the PALS WG email list going forward. My understanding is that if you wer=
e on the PWE3 list, you&#39;ve been auto-subscribed to the PALS list. If yo=
u were on the L2VPN list but not on the PWE3 list, you have to sign up for =
the PALS list on your own. The relevant information for the list is:</div><=
div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13=
px">List address:=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">pals@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,=
sans-serif;font-size:13px">Archive:=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.=
org/mail-archive/web/pals/" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px">http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/</a><br =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">To subscribe:=C2=A0</span><a href=3D=
"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/pals</a><br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div=
><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div></div>

--001a1135258088a4f805059945e1--


From nobody Fri Oct 17 03:12:44 2014
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Subject: [Pals] New Non-WG Mailing List:Pals -- Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services dicussion list.
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A new IETF non-working group email list has been created.

List address: pals@ietf.org
Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals

Purpose:

This list is for discussion of the work of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled
Services working group. it includes all pseudowire work and work related to
DLP-enabled services including LDP-enabled L2VPNs.

For additional information, please contact the list administrators.


From nobody Fri Oct 17 09:11:46 2014
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Subject: [Pals] WG Review: Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services (pals)
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A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Routing Area. The IESG
has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was
submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send
your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg at ietf.org) by 2014-10-27.

Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services (pals)
------------------------------------------------
Current Status: Proposed WG

Chairs:
  Andy Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>
  Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>

Assigned Area Director:
  Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>

Mailing list
  Address: pals@ietf.org
  To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals
  Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals

Charter:

Many services that run in the Internet are facilitated in MPLS networks
by the Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) and/or are established over
pseudowires that emulate point-to-point or point-to-multipoint links and
provide communication connectivity that is perceived by its users as an
unshared link or circuit of an emulated Layer-1, Layer-2, or Layer-3 
service type.

Layer-2 Virtual Private Networks (L2VPNs) are one such service that 
provides an emulation of a "native" service over a packet switched
network that is adequately faithful to, but may not be entirely 
indistinguishable from, the native service itself. 

The Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services (PALS) working group is
chartered to define, specify, and extend network services based on
pseudowires and/or signaled using LDP.

In particular, the working group will work on the following services:

- All types of MPLS-based and L2TPv3-based pseudowire services
  including point-to-point and point-to-multipoint pseudowires, single
  segment and multi-segment pseudowires, single and multi-domain
  pseudowires, and signaled and statically provisioned pseudowires.

- All types of dynamic or static provider-provisioned L2VPNs that
  operate over pseudowires or that are enabled over MPLS networks
  using LDP as a control plane mechanism.

- IP-only L2VPN solutions (for IP-only services over a packet switched
  network).

The working group may also suggest new services to be supported by LDP
or pseudowires and these may be added to the working group charter
subject to re-chartering. The working group is also responsible for the
maintenance and development of pseudowires formerly carried out by the
PWE3 working group

The PALS working group will not define any mechanisms that exert control
over the underlying packet switched network. When necessary it may, 
however, recommend or require the use of existing QoS and path control
mechanisms between the edge nodes that provide the connectivity to the
services.

The working group may work on:

- New pseudowire encapsulations or types for services emulated over 
  IETF-specified Packet Switched Networks.

- Operations, Administration, and Management (OAM) for pseudowires 
  including interworking of OAM for pseudowires and native services, and
  OAM for other services worked on by PALS (including L2VPNs). But new 
  techniques should be shared with the BFD and MPLS working groups to 
  ensure consistency with existing OAM techniques, and with the LIME 
  working group to provide for consistency of operation.

- Protocol extensions for LDP in support of new pseudowire function
  and new services, but all protocol extensions must be reviewed by the
  MPLS working group which is responsible for the consistency and
  stability of LDP.

- Mechanisms to enhance pseudowire and L2VPN functionality by 
  including security, protection and restoration, congestion avoidance,
  and load balancing across parallel packet switched tunnels.

- Mechanisms to permit optimization of multicast data traffic within an
  L2VPN.

- Enhancements to increase the scalability of the control plane and data
  plane of L2VPN solutions and application of L2VPN solutions in the 
  data center, the latter in coordination with the NVO3 working group

- L2VPN discovery and membership mechanisms that utilize pseudowire
  control and management procedures.

- Data models for modeling, managing, and operating the services worked
  on by the PALS working group using SMI or YANG.

The PALS working group will not work on L2VPNs enabled using BGP, and
where L2VPNs that are within the scope of the PALS working group use
BGP to add functionality (for example for discovery of membership of a
VPN) this work will be coordinated with the BESS working group. This
also includes work on particular types of L2VPNs that support both LDP
and BGP signaling, such as VPLS. Any contention between these working
groups on the placement of such work will be resolved by the chairs.

The PALS working group will coordinate closely with the MPLS working
group for all work involving LDP and the MPLS data plane. It will also
coordinate with the MPLS working group in developing shared security,
and with the BFD and MPLS working groups on OAM solutions.

Where extensions to pseudowires are needed to support time or frequency
transfer, this work will be done by the PALS working group in 
consultation with the TICTOC working group.

L2TP specifics of L2TPv3-based pseudowires will continue to be the
responsibility of the L2TPEXT working group.



Milestones:
 TBD


From nobody Mon Oct 20 16:06:46 2014
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From: David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>
To: "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: PALS IETF 91 Slot Requests - Honolulu
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Subject: [Pals] PALS IETF 91 Slot Requests - Honolulu
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--_000_D06A7060154618davidsinicropeericssoncom_
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Hi All,
Time to request presentation slots for IETF 91.

If you need a presentation slot for the IETF 91 PALS session, please reply =
to this email (subject intact) completing the form below.   If L2VPNers are=
n't sure if their drafts will be addressed in PALS or BESS, they can send i=
n a request, and slot requests that belong to BESS will be forwarded with a=
 copy to the requester.  (See Andy=92s email below.)

Please use this form and please reply to this email.

- topic (e.g., MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interworking):
- draft URL (e.g., http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth=
-oam-iwk/):
- brief statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and re=
solved via the presentation during the meeting  (e.g., need to address secu=
rity issues and get direction from the WG):
- requested duration (norm is 10 min):
- speaker Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE):

Thanks!
Dave


From: Andrew Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Friday, October 17, 2014 at 3:25 AM
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "IETF.PWE3" <pwe3@ietf.org<mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>>, "l2vpn@ietf.org<mail=
to:l2vpn@ietf.org>" <l2vpn@ietf.org<mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org>>, Stewart Bryant=
 <stbryant@cisco.com<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>>, David A Sinicrope <david.=
sinicrope@ericsson.com<mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>>
Subject: PALS WG on its way ....

If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the expectation is th=
at PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks, and will meet i=
n Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN, Wednesday at 13=
:00. Our WG Secretary, David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda i=
tems. For those of you that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be pre=
senting at PALS instead. For those of you that were planning to present at =
L2VPN, you may be presenting at PALS or at BESS, the latter primarily for E=
VPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any questions.

We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward. My =
understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been auto-subscr=
ibed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on the PWE3 li=
st, you have to sign up for the PALS list on your own. The relevant informa=
tion for the list is:

List address: pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals

Thanks,
Andy


--_000_D06A7060154618davidsinicropeericssoncom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hi All,<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Time to =
request presentation slots for IETF 91. &nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">If =
you need a presentation slot for the IETF 91 PALS session, please
<b>reply to this email </b>(subject intact) completing the form below. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial,=
 sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">&nbsp;I</span>f L2VPNers aren't sure if th=
eir drafts will be addressed in PALS or BESS,
 they can send in a request, and slot requests that belong to BESS will be =
forwarded with a copy to the requester. &nbsp;(See Andy=92s email below.)</=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times Ne=
w Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: medium;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times Ne=
w Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: medium;">Please use this form=
 and please reply to this email.</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 11.25pt;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- topic =
(e.g.,&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-style-span">MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interwor=
king):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- draft =
URL (e.g.,&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-=
mpls-eth-oam-iwk/" style=3D"color: purple;">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk/</a>): &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- brief =
statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and resolved v=
ia the presentation during the meeting &nbsp;(e.g., need to address securit=
y issues and get direction from the WG):
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- reques=
ted duration (norm is 10 min): &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- speake=
r Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE): &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Thanks!<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dave</sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; border-width: 1pt medi=
um medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-=
color: rgb(181, 196, 223);">
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:&nbsp;</span>Andrew Malis &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Date:&nbsp;</span>Friday, October 17, 20=
14 at 3:25 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:&nbsp;</span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:=
pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org"=
>pals@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Cc:&nbsp;</span>&quot;IETF.PWE3&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"=
mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn=
@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stb=
ryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>&gt;,
 David A Sinicrope &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com">davi=
d.sinicrope@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:&nbsp;</span>PALS WG on its way =
....<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the =
expectation is that PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks=
, and will meet in Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN=
, Wednesday at 13:00. Our WG Secretary,
 David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda items. For those of you=
 that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be presenting at PALS instea=
d. For those of you that were planning to present at L2VPN, you may be pres=
enting at PALS or at BESS, the latter
 primarily for EVPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any =
questions.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward=
. My understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been auto-s=
ubscribed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on the PW=
E3 list, you have to sign up for
 the PALS list on your own. The relevant information for the list is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">List =
address:&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:=
 arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">pals@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-fa=
mily: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Archive:&n=
bsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/" target=3D=
"_blank" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">http://=
www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/</a><br style=3D"font-family: arial, san=
s-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">To subscri=
be:&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals</a><br style=3D"font-family: arial=
, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D06A7060154618davidsinicropeericssoncom_--


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From: "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>
To: David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] PALS IETF 91 Slot Requests - Honolulu
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Hi,

- topic (e.g., MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interworking):
[PB] MPLS LDP

- draft URL (e.g., http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth=
-oam-iwk/):
[PB] Draft is not submitted yet. Name: draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-re=
quest-00


- brief statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and re=
solved via the presentation during the meeting  (e.g., need to address secu=
rity issues and get direction from the WG):

First submission, asking for feedback

- requested duration (norm is 10 min):

10 min

- speaker Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE):

Patrice BRISSETTE



Regards,

Patrice

   [http://www.cisco.com/web/europe/images/email/signature/est2014/logo_06.=
png?ct=3D1406640631632]

Patrice Brissette
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING

pbrisset@cisco.com<mailto:pbrisset@cisco.com>
Phone: +1 613 254 3336


Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE
Canada
Cisco.com<http://www.cisco.com/global/CA/>



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From: David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com<mailto:david.sinicrope@=
ericsson.com>>
Date: Monday, October 20, 2014 at 7:06 PM
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org<mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org>" <l2vpn@ietf.org<mailto:l2vpn@ie=
tf.org>>, David A Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@gmail.com<mailto:david.sinicro=
pe@gmail.com>>, "IETF.PWE3" <pwe3@ietf.org<mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>>, "bess@ie=
tf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>" <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: [bess] PALS IETF 91 Slot Requests - Honolulu


Hi All,
Time to request presentation slots for IETF 91.

If you need a presentation slot for the IETF 91 PALS session, please reply =
to this email (subject intact) completing the form below.   If L2VPNers are=
n't sure if their drafts will be addressed in PALS or BESS, they can send i=
n a request, and slot requests that belong to BESS will be forwarded with a=
 copy to the requester.  (See Andy=92s email below.)

Please use this form and please reply to this email.

- topic (e.g., MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interworking):
- draft URL (e.g., http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth=
-oam-iwk/):
- brief statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and re=
solved via the presentation during the meeting  (e.g., need to address secu=
rity issues and get direction from the WG):
- requested duration (norm is 10 min):
- speaker Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE):

Thanks!
Dave


From: Andrew Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Friday, October 17, 2014 at 3:25 AM
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "IETF.PWE3" <pwe3@ietf.org<mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>>, "l2vpn@ietf.org<mail=
to:l2vpn@ietf.org>" <l2vpn@ietf.org<mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org>>, Stewart Bryant=
 <stbryant@cisco.com<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>>, David A Sinicrope <david.=
sinicrope@ericsson.com<mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>>
Subject: PALS WG on its way ....

If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the expectation is th=
at PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks, and will meet i=
n Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN, Wednesday at 13=
:00. Our WG Secretary, David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda i=
tems. For those of you that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be pre=
senting at PALS instead. For those of you that were planning to present at =
L2VPN, you may be presenting at PALS or at BESS, the latter primarily for E=
VPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any questions.

We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward. My =
understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been auto-subscr=
ibed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on the PWE3 li=
st, you have to sign up for the PALS list on your own. The relevant informa=
tion for the list is:

List address: pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals

Thanks,
Andy


--_000_D06B34943A520pbrissetciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 11.25pt;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- topic =
(e.g.,&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-style-span">MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interwor=
king):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 11.25pt;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span cl=
ass=3D"apple-style-span">[PB] MPLS LDP</span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 11.25pt;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span cl=
ass=3D"apple-style-span"><br>
</span></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- draft =
URL (e.g.,&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-=
mpls-eth-oam-iwk/" style=3D"color: purple;">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk/</a>):&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">[PB] Dra=
ft is not submitted yet. Name:&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: Aria=
l, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-=
00</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- brief =
statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and resolved v=
ia the presentation during the meeting &nbsp;(e.g., need to address securit=
y issues and get direction from the WG):
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">First su=
bmission, asking for feedback</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- reques=
ted duration (norm is 10 min):&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">10 min</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- speake=
r Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE): &nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Patrice =
BRISSETTE</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Patrice<br>
<br>
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"543">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"3">&nbsp; &nbsp;<img src=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/europe/=
images/email/signature/est2014/logo_06.png?ct=3D1406640631632" width=3D"110=
" height=3D"73"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 0;" align=3D"left" nowrap=
=3D"nowrap" valign=3D"top">
<p style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; col=
or: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<strong>Patrice Brissette</strong><br>
TECHNICAL LEADER.ENGINEERING<br>
<br>
<a style=3D"color:#666666; text-decoration: none;" href=3D"mailto:pbrisset@=
cisco.com">pbrisset@cisco.com</a><br>
Phone: <strong>&#43;1 613 254 3336</strong><br>
</p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-top: 15px;" =
valign=3D"top" width=3D"50%">
<p style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; col=
or: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<strong>Cisco Systems Canada Co. / Les Systemes Cisco Canada CIE</strong><b=
r>
Canada<br>
<a style=3D"color:#666666; text-decoration: none;" href=3D"http://www.cisco=
.com/global/CA/">Cisco.com</a><br>
</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"3"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"400">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; co=
lor: #999999; padding-left: 24px; padding-right: 20px; padding-top: 5px; pa=
dding-bottom: 0px; color:#009900; ">
<img src=3D"http://www.cisco.com/assets/swa/img/thinkbeforeyouprint.gif" al=
t=3D""> Think before you print.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; co=
lor: #999999; padding-left: 24px; padding-right: 20px; padding-top: 7px; pa=
dding-bottom: 6px">
<p>This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole=
 use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure=
 by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (o=
r authorized to receive for the
 recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies=
 of this message.</p>
<p>Please <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cr=
i/index.html" title=3D"Legal Information" style=3D"color: #0E58A0;">
click here</a> for Company Registration Information.</p>
<p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br clear=3D"all">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>David Sinicrope &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com">david.sinicrope@ericsson.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, October 20, 2014 at 7=
:06 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ie=
tf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@i=
etf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2v=
pn@ietf.org</a>&gt;, David A Sinicrope &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.sinicrop=
e@gmail.com">david.sinicrope@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;IETF.PWE3&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[bess] PALS IETF 91 Slot R=
equests - Honolulu<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hi All,<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Time to =
request presentation slots for IETF 91. &nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">If =
you need a presentation slot for the IETF 91 PALS session, please
<b>reply to this email </b>(subject intact) completing the form below. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial,=
 sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">&nbsp;I</span>f L2VPNers aren't sure if th=
eir drafts will be addressed in PALS or BESS,
 they can send in a request, and slot requests that belong to BESS will be =
forwarded with a copy to the requester. &nbsp;(See Andy=92s email below.)</=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times Ne=
w Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: medium;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times Ne=
w Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: medium;">Please use this form=
 and please reply to this email.</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 11.25pt;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- topic =
(e.g.,&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-style-span">MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interwor=
king):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- draft =
URL (e.g.,&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-=
mpls-eth-oam-iwk/" style=3D"color: purple;">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk/</a>): &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- brief =
statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and resolved v=
ia the presentation during the meeting &nbsp;(e.g., need to address securit=
y issues and get direction from the WG):
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- reques=
ted duration (norm is 10 min): &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- speake=
r Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE): &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px;">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Thanks!<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dave</sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; border-width: 1pt medi=
um medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-=
color: rgb(181, 196, 223);">
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:&nbsp;</span>Andrew Malis &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Date:&nbsp;</span>Friday, October 17, 20=
14 at 3:25 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:&nbsp;</span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:=
pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org"=
>pals@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Cc:&nbsp;</span>&quot;IETF.PWE3&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"=
mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn=
@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stb=
ryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>&gt;,
 David A Sinicrope &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com">davi=
d.sinicrope@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:&nbsp;</span>PALS WG on its way =
....<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the =
expectation is that PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks=
, and will meet in Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN=
, Wednesday at 13:00. Our WG Secretary,
 David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda items. For those of you=
 that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be presenting at PALS instea=
d. For those of you that were planning to present at L2VPN, you may be pres=
enting at PALS or at BESS, the latter
 primarily for EVPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any =
questions.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward=
. My understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been auto-s=
ubscribed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on the PW=
E3 list, you have to sign up for
 the PALS list on your own. The relevant information for the list is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">List =
address:&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:=
 arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">pals@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-fa=
mily: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Archive:&n=
bsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/" target=3D=
"_blank" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">http://=
www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/</a><br style=3D"font-family: arial, san=
s-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">To subscri=
be:&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals</a><br style=3D"font-family: arial=
, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D06B34943A520pbrissetciscocom_--


From nobody Wed Oct 22 07:04:01 2014
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <pals@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:03:50 +0100
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Subject: [Pals] Draft charter and draft milestones
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Hi,

Recalling that the draft charter is currently out for review...

Working with the chairs I have added an initial set of milestones to the charter
at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pals/

Thoughts are welcome.

Adrian


From nobody Thu Oct 23 18:30:59 2014
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--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6eusaamb103erics_
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Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,
thank you for your work on this document that is very important to PW OAM. =
Please kindly consider my comments below:

*         Abstract

o   "This document describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual Circui=
t Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG discussion in=
 Paris was to limit document scope to introduction of Control Channel Type =
4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC VCCV in RFC 5085bis.

o   "It describes new rules requiring this mode to be used as the default/m=
andatory mode of operation for VCCV." I think this statement is over-reachi=
ng. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be suggested as preferred in some sce=
narios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e MS-PW. I think that the str=
ongest statement could be "New implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC=
 Type 4."

o   "The older types will remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to obsolete=
 Type 2 CC PW VCCV.

*         Requirements Language and Terminology.
These acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH

*         Introduction

o   "... the ITU-T and IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it suitabl=
e as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be "packet transport=
".

o   "In order to support VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH ha=
d to be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW VCCV whe=
n PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085 control channel types=
. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on PWs in the first =
sentence of Section 4.2.

o   "This document defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the do=
cument leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation that the =
PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be used in MS-PW to=
 address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.

o   "In either case, it will be mandatory to implement and use that mode un=
der that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what was agr=
eed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.

*         Section 2
"... Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed" Firstly, it sho=
uld be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057". Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 0x000C, 0x=
000D, 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 0x0027, and 0x0058 wo=
uld not be listed as valid ACH types?

*         Section 3
"In the case of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to=
 the correct value to reach the intended destination PE as described in [RF=
C6073]" And that would be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 used in combination wi=
th CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that VCCV CC Type 3 and CC Type 4=
 can be used in combination since Section 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allo=
ws combination of PW VCCV Control Channels Type 1 and Type 3.

*         Section 4
"The first nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps "the first=
 nibble of the next octet ...". And does that imply that GAL MUST be BoS la=
bel and thus S=3D1? Should that be explicitly stated?

*         Section 5

o   "If the c-bit is set, indicating the use of the control word, type 1 MU=
ST be advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised." MUST in connection to =
Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1. I think that this is too s=
trong statement and propose change it to "Type 1 MUST be advertised if supp=
orted" or just "Type 1 MAY be advertised".

o   "If the c-bit is not set, indicating that the control word is not in us=
e, type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As in pre=
vious comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and implies it=
 being supported. Similar change suggested.

Regards,
                Greg

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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your work on this document that is ver=
y important to PW OAM. Please kindly consider my comments below:<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Abstract <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;This document describes a unified mode=
 of operation for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ...&quot=
; IMHO, agreement of WG discussion in Paris was to limit document scope to =
introduction of Control Channel Type 4 for
 PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC VCCV in RFC 5085bis.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&#8220;It describes new rules requiring this=
 mode to be used as the default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV.&#8221=
; I think this statement is over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 ma=
y be suggested as preferred in some scenarios,
 such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e MS-PW. I think that the strongest =
statement could be &#8220;New implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC =
Type 4.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;The older types will remain optional.&=
quot; IMHO, the WG agreed to obsolete Type 2 CC PW VCCV.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Requirements Language and Terminology. <o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">These acronyms are not us=
ed in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Introduction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;... the ITU-T and IETF have set out to=
 enhance MPLS to make it suitable as an optical transport protocol ...&quot=
; Perhaps should be &quot;packet transport&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;In order to support VCCV when an MPLS-=
TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH had to be created ...&quot; G-ACh was created=
 for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of descri=
bed in RFC 5085 control channel types. And
 RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on PWs in the first sente=
nce of Section 4.2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;This document defines two modes of ope=
ration of VCCV ...&quot; Where the document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it vali=
d mode of PW VCCV operation that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe tha=
t only Type 3 can be used in MS-PW to address
 S-PE whether CW&nbsp; being used or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;In either case, it will be mandatory t=
o implement and use that mode under that scenario.&quot; Again, this conclu=
sion is not in sync with what was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 2 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&quot;... Associated Chan=
nel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed&quot; Firstly, it should be &quot;0x=
0021, 0x007, or 0x0057&quot;. Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 0x000C, 0x000D,=
 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 0x0027,
 and 0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 3 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&quot;In the case of mult=
i-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to the correct value t=
o reach the intended destination PE as described in [RFC6073]&quot; And tha=
t would be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 used in
 combination with CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that VCCV CC Type =
3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 =
explicitly allows combination of PW VCCV Control Channels Type 1 and Type 3=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&quot;The first nibble of=
 the next field is set to 0001b ...&quot; Perhaps &#8220;the first nibble o=
f the next octet &#8230;&#8221;. And does that imply that GAL MUST be BoS l=
abel and thus S=3D1? Should that be explicitly stated?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Section 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&#8220;If the c-bit is set, indicating the u=
se of the control word, type 1 MUST be advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be ad=
vertised.&#8221; MUST in connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support o=
f CC Type 1. I think that this is too strong
 statement and propose change it to &#8220;Type 1 MUST be advertised if sup=
ported&#8221; or just &#8220;Type 1 MAY be advertised&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&quot;If the c-bit is not set, indicating th=
at the control word is not in use, type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MU=
ST NOT be advertised.&quot; As in previous comment, MUST in connection to C=
C Type 4 is too strong and implies it being
 supported. Similar change suggested.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "pbrisset@cisco.com" <pbrisset@cisco.com>, "skraza@cisco.com" <skraza@cisco.com>, "sboutros@cisco.com" <sboutros@cisco.com>, "nick.delregno@verizon.com" <nick.delregno@verizon.com>, "matt.turlington@verizon.com" <matt.turlington@verizon.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 05:15:49 +0000
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Subject: [Pals] Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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??Hi all,

I've read the draft and I think that it closes an important gap left by the=
 original RFC 4447.


At the same time I have a couple of comments regarding the current text.


Technical:


Neither FEC-128 nor FEC-129 explicitly specify the remote PE. The same PWid=
 (in the case of FEC-128) or the same triple {AGI, SAII, TAII} (in the case=
 of FEC-129) can be assigned to multiple PW endpoints in a given PE provide=
d  that their remote PEs are different. This fact is used, e.g., for settin=
g up a full mesh of Ethernet PWs between multiple VSIs forming a single VPL=
S in RFC 4762.

At the same time, each occurrence of { Remote PE, PW FEC} is bound to a dif=
ferent PW label because these labels are used as PW demultiplexers.


Suppose now that PE-1 has used the same PW-FEC-1 for two PWs, one with remo=
te peer PE2, and the other - with remote peer PE-2, and allocated PW labels=
 L12 and L13 as incoming PW labels to these two PWs.

I assume that, if PE2 sends Label Request for PW-FEC-1 to PE1, it would onl=
y receive the label mapping message with L12; however, this is not explicit=
ly specified in the draft.


The same logic presumably should be applied to the situations when requests=
 for wildcard PWFEC (general or Typed) are received, i.e., regardless of th=
e specific FEC for which label requests has been issued:

  *   Only labels bound to combinations of the requester as the remote PE a=
nd suitable PW FEC would be re-advertised
  *   If the PW FEC is not associated with any PW endpoint having the reque=
ster as its remote PE,   a "No PW"  Notification would be sent, even if the=
 PWFEC itself is used in conjunction with other PEs.

IMHO and FWIW such a clarification in the draft would be beneficial.

Editorial:

Section 3.2 mentions a "TT-PE". Judging by the context, I think that this s=
hould be T-PE (a reference to S-PE appears immediately after the sentence m=
entioning T-PE).

Hopefully these comments will be useful.


Regards,

Sasha


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<html>
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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none"><!-- p { margin-top: 0px; m=
argin-bottom: 0px; }--></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#F=
FFFFF;font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif;">
<p>&#8203;&#8203;Hi all,</p>
<p>I've read the draft and I think that it closes an important gap left by =
the original RFC 4447.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>At the same time I have a couple of comments regarding the current text.=
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><strong style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">Technical</strong>:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-right: 0px;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p>Neither FEC-128 nor FEC-129 explicitly specify the remote PE.&nbsp;The s=
ame PWid (in the case of FEC-128) or the same triple {AGI, SAII, TAII} (in =
the case of FEC-129) can be&nbsp;assigned to multiple PW endpoints in a giv=
en PE provided &nbsp;that their remote PEs are
 different. This fact is used, e.g., for setting up a full mesh of Ethernet=
 PWs between multiple VSIs forming a single VPLS in RFC 4762.
</p>
<p>At the same time, each occurrence of { Remote PE, PW FEC} is bound to a =
different PW label because these labels are used as PW demultiplexers.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Suppose now that PE-1 has used the same PW-FEC-1 for two PWs, one with r=
emote peer PE2, and the other - with remote peer PE-2, and allocated PW lab=
els L12 and L13 as incoming PW labels to these two PWs.
</p>
<p>I assume that, if PE2 sends Label Request for PW-FEC-1 to PE1, it would =
only receive the label mapping message with L12; however,
<em>this is not explicitly specified in the draft</em>.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>The same logic presumably should be applied to the situations when reque=
sts for wildcard PWFEC (general or Typed) are received, i.e., regardless of=
 the specific FEC for which label requests has been issued:</p>
<ul>
<li>Only labels bound to combinations of the requester as the remote PE and=
 suitable PW FEC would&nbsp;be re-advertised</li><li>If the PW FEC is not a=
ssociated with any PW endpoint having the requester as&nbsp;its remote PE,&=
nbsp;&nbsp; a &quot;No PW&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;Notification would be sent, even=
 if the PWFEC itself is used in conjunction with other PEs.</li></ul>
<p></p>
<p>IMHO and FWIW such a clarification in the draft would be beneficial.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><strong style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">Editorial</strong>:</p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-right: 0px;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p>Section 3.2 mentions a &quot;TT-PE&quot;. Judging by the context, I thin=
k that&nbsp;this should be T-PE&nbsp;(a reference to S-PE appears&nbsp;imme=
diately after&nbsp;the sentence mentioning T-PE). &nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-right: 0px;" dir=3D"ltr">Hopefully these comments will b=
e useful.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Sasha</p>
<p style=3D"margin-right: 0px;" dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</p>
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 05:34:16 +0000
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From: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:58:34 +0000
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Cc: "Patrice Brissette \(pbrisset\)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>, "Kamran Raza \(skraza\)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Gideon Agmon <Gideon.Agmon@ecitele.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "matt.turlington@verizon.com" <matt.turlington@verizon.com>, "nick.delregno@verizon.com" <nick.delregno@verizon.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [Pals] Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:44:27 +0100
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
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To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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Greg

Thanks for the comments. It is a bit close to the deadline to be certain 
to get a new version out by the cutoff on Monday.

What I propose is that we work through the comments on here and 
depending where I get to either request a late submission or place the a 
draft in some public place.

Either way I have proposed to the existing PWE3 chairs that I take a 
slot to get feedback on the proposed resolution and if there is some 
uncertainly on how to go forward use some WG time to work through the 
issues.

Please see inline.

On 24/10/2014 02:30, Gregory Mirsky wrote:
>
> Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,
>
> thank you for your work on this document that is very important to PW 
> OAM. Please kindly consider my comments below:
>
> ·Abstract
>
> o"This document describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual 
> Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG 
> discussion in Paris was to limit document scope to introduction of 
> Control Channel Type 4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC 
> VCCV in RFC 5085bis.
>
> o"It describes new rules requiring this mode to be used as the 
> default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV." I think this statement 
> is over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be suggested as 
> preferred in some scenarios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e 
> MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could be "New 
> implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type 4."
>
> o"The older types will remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to 
> obsolete Type 2 CC PW VCCV.
>
I will tone that down some.

I think that it might be better to split this problem into two. Firstly 
get this draft out with the changes needed to support the GAL, and write 
a separate draft deprecating  Type 2 and doing any clean up on VCCV. Or 
maybe doing this in three stages (GAL then Dep Type 2 then cleanup). 
That way each text is focused.

> ·Requirements Language and Terminology.
>
> These acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH
>
Will look at that
>
> ·Introduction
>
> o"... the ITU-T and IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it 
> suitable as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be 
> "packet transport".
>
Yes
>
> o"In order to support VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH 
> had to be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW 
> VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085 control 
> channel types. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on 
> PWs in the first sentence of Section 4.2.
>
Yes
>
> o"This document defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the 
> document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation 
> that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be 
> used in MS-PW to address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.
>
> o"In either case, it will be mandatory to implement and use that mode 
> under that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what 
> was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.
>
> ·Section 2
>
> "... Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed" Firstly, 
> it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057". Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 
> 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 
> 0x0027, and 0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?
>
I will look at that text - this draft should not repeat the registry!
>
> ·Section 3
>
> "In the case of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be 
> set to the correct value to reach the intended destination PE as 
> described in [RFC6073]" And that would be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 
> used in combination with CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that 
> VCCV CC Type 3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section 
> 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW VCCV Control 
> Channels Type 1 and Type 3.
>
Let's see if that makes sense when I get there
>
> ·Section 4
>
> "The first nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps "the 
> first nibble of the next octet ...". And does that imply that GAL MUST 
> be BoS label and thus S=1? Should that be explicitly stated?
>
Will think about this some more when I look at Sasha's comments
>
> ·Section 5
>
> o"If the c-bit is set, indicating the use of the control word, type 1 
> MUST be advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised." MUST in 
> connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1. I think 
> that this is too strong statement and propose change it to "Type 1 
> MUST be advertised if supported" or just "Type 1 MAY be advertised".
>
> o"If the c-bit is not set, indicating that the control word is not in 
> use, type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As 
> in previous comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and 
> implies it being supported. Similar change suggested.
>
Again will look at that.

Expect a follow up response with the text actions

Stewart
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pwe3 mailing list
> pwe3@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg<br>
      <br>
      Thanks for the comments. It is a bit close to the deadline to be
      certain to get a new version out by the cutoff on Monday.<br>
      <br>
      What I propose is that we work through the comments on here and
      depending where I get to either request a late submission or place
      the a draft in some public place.<br>
      <br>
      Either way I have proposed to the existing PWE3 chairs that I take
      a slot to get feedback on the proposed resolution and if there is
      some uncertainly on how to go forward use some WG time to work
      through the issues.<br>
      <br>
      Please see inline.<br>
      <br>
      On 24/10/2014 02:30, Gregory Mirsky wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">thank you for your work on this document
          that is very important to PW OAM. Please kindly consider my
          comments below:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Abstract <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
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          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"This document
          describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual Circuit
          Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG
          discussion in Paris was to limit document scope to
          introduction of Control Channel Type 4 for PW VCCV and address
          unified operation of CC VCCV in RFC 5085bis.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->&#8220;It describes new rules
          requiring this mode to be used as the default/mandatory mode
          of operation for VCCV.&#8221; I think this statement is
          over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be suggested
          as preferred in some scenarios, such as CW not being used,
          SS-PW or e2e MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could
          be &#8220;New implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type 4.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"The older types will
          remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to obsolete Type 2 CC PW
          VCCV.</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I will tone that down some.<br>
    <br>
    I think that it might be better to split this problem into two.
    Firstly get this draft out with the changes needed to support the
    GAL, and write a separate draft deprecating&nbsp; Type 2 and doing any
    clean up on VCCV. Or maybe doing this in three stages (GAL then Dep
    Type 2 then cleanup). That way each text is focused.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
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          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Requirements Language
          and Terminology. <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">These acronyms are
          not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Will look at that <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
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        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Introduction<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"... the ITU-T and IETF
          have set out to enhance MPLS to make it suitable as an optical
          transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be "packet transport".</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Yes<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2"><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"In order to support
          VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH had to be
          created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW
          VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085
          control channel types. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL
          from being used on PWs in the first sentence of Section 4.2.</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Yes<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2"><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"This document defines
          two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the document leaves
          CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation that the
          PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be
          used in MS-PW to address S-PE whether CW&nbsp; being used or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"In either case, it
          will be mandatory to implement and use that mode under that
          scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what was
          agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Section 2 <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"... Associated
          Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed" Firstly, it should
          be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057". Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B,
          0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025,
          0x0026, 0x0027, and 0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH
          types?</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I will look at that text - this draft should not repeat the
    registry!<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Section 3 <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"In the case of
          multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to
          the correct value to reach the intended destination PE as
          described in [RFC6073]" And that would be the case of VCCV CC
          Type 3 used in combination with CC Type 4. I think it must be
          so noted that VCCV CC Type 3 and CC Type 4 can be used in
          combination since Section 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows
          combination of PW VCCV Control Channels Type 1 and Type 3.</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Let's see if that makes sense when I get there<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Section 4<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"The first nibble
          of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps &#8220;the first
          nibble of the next octet &#8230;&#8221;. And does that imply that GAL MUST
          be BoS label and thus S=1? Should that be explicitly stated?
        </p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Will think about this some more when I look at Sasha's comments<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Section 5<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->&#8220;If the c-bit is set,
          indicating the use of the control word, type 1 MUST be
          advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised.&#8221; MUST in
          connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1.
          I think that this is too strong statement and propose change
          it to &#8220;Type 1 MUST be advertised if supported&#8221; or just &#8220;Type 1
          MAY be advertised&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->"If the c-bit is not
          set, indicating that the control word is not in use, type 4
          MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As in
          previous comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is too
          strong and implies it being supported. Similar change
          suggested.</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Again will look at that.<br>
    <br>
    Expect a follow up response with the text actions<br>
    <br>
    Stewart<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
          lfo2"><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
          Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
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On 24/10/2014 06:34, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> Lots of thanks for a very careful review of the document.
>
> All your comments look valid to me and, IMO, should be addressed in 
> the next revision of the draft.
>

>
> In addition, please see below a couple of comments of my own:
>
>  1. *GAL vs. Flow Label*:
>       * The draft refers to RFC 5586 for the definition of GAL, and
>         this document states that GAL MUST be BoS.
>       * At the same time, RFC 6391 has defined the Flow Label for
>         flow-aware (a.k.a. "fat") PWs, and specified that it MUST be BoS.
>       * It is not clear to me whether GAL and Flow Label can be
>         combined, since they cannot both be BoS. I'd like to remind
>         the authors that this issue has been raised at the very early
>         stages of discussion of VCCV Type 4 (even before it has become
>         a WG document), but it remains unresolved until now.
>
Thanks for pointing out the conflict.

In the original PW design the PW label was always the bottom label.
The FAT label was after the PW label for two reasons firstly because you 
needed the context of the PW label to know to pop it and secondly it had 
more entropy and so putting it at the bottom seemed like the best place 
because you expect entropy to increase as you get closer to the bottom 
of the stack.

Now as I recall the GAL says that the ACH is after the bottom of stack, 
which means it could actually be anywhere although it was convenient to 
put it at BOS.

Probably the right things - with suitable update notes is 
PW/FAT/GAL/ACH. The PW handler then know to discard the FAT and the GAL 
says look for the ACH.

We have no choice but to include the FAT since it is a property of the 
PW and the handler always expects it. We could remove it when the GAL is 
present but is a lot more complex.

What is annoying and hopefully people realize this is that when the GAL 
is that the ECMP path is likely to change - something we carefully 
avoided with the CW design (which is why we did it like that in the 
first place.

This then takes me to wonder if we should restrict the GAL solely to the 
case of a point to point LSP such as we get with RSVP-TE and MPLS-TP, in 
which case FAT would never be present.

I need some WG input on this.

> 1.
>
>
>  2. *TTL in the PW LSE*:
>       * The draft contains some Editor remarks regarding this issue,
>         but eventually suggests setting TTL=1 in the PW LSE for SS-PWs
>       * To the best of my recollection original Martini drafts have
>         set the PW LSE TTL to 2, and many implementations follow this,
>         even if the PW RFCs have relaxed that to any suitable value
>       * In any case, setting TTL in the PW LSE to 1 would cause many
>         implementations to trap all PW packets to the CP due to TTL
>         expiration; so this looks an error to me,
>
Yes I remember that. It's an implementation issue in some older h/w that 
is unlikely to do this. However it's probably OK to maintain the old 
value as the packet is not going to go very far.

Let me go back and look at the framework RFCs and see if there is 
anything I am missing.

We should discuss this at the next WG meeting to make sure we are all on 
the same page.

- Stewart
>
> 1.
>
>
> Hopefully these comments will be useful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* pwe3 <pwe3-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gregory Mirsky 
> <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 4:30 AM
> *To:* draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org
> *Cc:* pwe3@ietf.org; pals@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
>
> Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,
>
> thank you for your work on this document that is very important to PW 
> OAM. Please kindly consider my comments below:
>
> ·Abstract
>
> o"This document describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual 
> Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG 
> discussion in Paris was to limit document scope to introduction of 
> Control Channel Type 4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC 
> VCCV in RFC 5085bis.
>
> o"It describes new rules requiring this mode to be used as the 
> default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV." I think this statement 
> is over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be suggested as 
> preferred in some scenarios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e 
> MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could be "New 
> implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type 4."
>
> o"The older types will remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to 
> obsolete Type 2 CC PW VCCV.
>
> ·Requirements Language and Terminology.
>
> These acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH
>
> ·Introduction
>
> o"... the ITU-T and IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it 
> suitable as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be 
> "packet transport".
>
> o"In order to support VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH 
> had to be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW 
> VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085 control 
> channel types. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on 
> PWs in the first sentence of Section 4.2.
>
> o"This document defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the 
> document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation 
> that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be 
> used in MS-PW to address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.
>
> o"In either case, it will be mandatory to implement and use that mode 
> under that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what 
> was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.
>
> ·Section 2
>
> "... Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed" Firstly, 
> it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057". Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 
> 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 
> 0x0027, and 0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?
>
> ·Section 3
>
> "In the case of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be 
> set to the correct value to reach the intended destination PE as 
> described in [RFC6073]" And that would be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 
> used in combination with CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that 
> VCCV CC Type 3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section 
> 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW VCCV Control 
> Channels Type 1 and Type 3.
>
> ·Section 4
>
> "The first nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps "the 
> first nibble of the next octet ...". And does that imply that GAL MUST 
> be BoS label and thus S=1? Should that be explicitly stated?
>
> ·Section 5
>
> o"If the c-bit is set, indicating the use of the control word, type 1 
> MUST be advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised." MUST in 
> connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1. I think 
> that this is too strong statement and propose change it to "Type 1 
> MUST be advertised if supported" or just "Type 1 MAY be advertised".
>
> o"If the c-bit is not set, indicating that the control word is not in 
> use, type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As 
> in previous comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and 
> implies it being supported. Similar change suggested.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pwe3 mailing list
> pwe3@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/10/2014 06:34, Alexander
      Vainshtein wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:1414128851884.41935@ecitele.com" type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <style type="text/css" style="display:none"><!-- p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; } @font-face {
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      <p>&#8203;Greg, </p>
      <p>Lots of thanks for a very careful review of the document.</p>
      <p>All your comments look valid to me and, IMO, should be
        addressed in the next revision of the draft.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:1414128851884.41935@ecitele.com" type="cite">
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>In addition, please see below a couple of comments of my own:</p>
      <ol>
        <li><strong>GAL vs. Flow Label</strong>:
          <ul>
            <li>The draft refers to RFC 5586 for the definition of GAL,
              and this document states that GAL MUST be BoS.
            </li>
            <li>At the same time, RFC 6391 has defined the Flow Label
              for flow-aware (a.k.a. "fat") PWs, and specified that it
              MUST be BoS.</li>
            <li>It is not clear to me whether GAL and Flow Label can be
              combined, since they cannot both be BoS. I'd like to
              remind the authors that this issue has been raised at the
              very early stages of discussion of VCCV Type 4 (even
              before it has become a WG document), but it remains
              unresolved until now.</li>
          </ul>
        </li>
      </ol>
    </blockquote>
    Thanks for pointing out the conflict.<br>
    <br>
    In the original PW design the PW label was always the bottom label.<br>
    The FAT label was after the PW label for two reasons firstly because
    you needed the context of the PW label to know to pop it and
    secondly it had more entropy and so putting it at the bottom seemed
    like the best place because you expect entropy to increase as you
    get closer to the bottom of the stack.<br>
    <br>
    Now as I recall the GAL says that the ACH is after the bottom of
    stack, which means it could actually be anywhere although it was
    convenient to put it at BOS.<br>
    <br>
    Probably the right things - with suitable update notes is
    PW/FAT/GAL/ACH. The PW handler then know to discard the FAT and the
    GAL says look for the ACH.<br>
    <br>
    We have no choice but to include the FAT since it is a property of
    the PW and the handler always expects it. We could remove it when
    the GAL is present but is a lot more complex.<br>
    <br>
    What is annoying and hopefully people realize this is that when the
    GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change - something we
    carefully avoided with the CW design (which is why we did it like
    that in the first place.<br>
    <br>
    This then takes me to wonder if we should restrict the GAL solely to
    the case of a point to point LSP such as we get with RSVP-TE and
    MPLS-TP, in which case FAT would never be present.<br>
    <br>
    I need some WG input on this.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:1414128851884.41935@ecitele.com" type="cite">
      <ol>
        <li>
          <br>
        </li>
        <li><strong>TTL in the PW LSE</strong>:
          <ul>
            <li>The draft contains some Editor remarks regarding this
              issue, but eventually suggests setting TTL=1 in the PW LSE
              for SS-PWs</li>
            <li>To the best of my recollection original Martini drafts
              have set the PW LSE TTL to 2, and many implementations
              follow this, even if&nbsp;the&nbsp;PW RFCs have relaxed that to any
              suitable value</li>
            <li>In any case, setting&nbsp;TTL in the PW LSE to 1 would cause
              many implementations to trap all PW packets to the CP due
              to TTL expiration; so this looks&nbsp;an error to me,&nbsp; <br>
            </li>
          </ul>
        </li>
      </ol>
    </blockquote>
    Yes I remember that. It's an implementation issue in some older h/w
    that is unlikely to do this. However it's probably OK to maintain
    the old value as the packet is not going to go very far.<br>
    <br>
    Let me go back and look at the framework RFCs and see if there is
    anything I am missing.<br>
    <br>
    We should discuss this at the next WG meeting to make sure we are
    all on the same page.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:1414128851884.41935@ecitele.com" type="cite">
      <ol>
        <li>
        </li>
      </ol>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p>Hopefully these comments will be useful.</p>
      <p>Regards,</p>
      <p>Sasha</p>
      <div style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
        <hr tabindex="-1" style="width: 98%; display: inline-block;">
        <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size: 11pt;"
            color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> pwe3
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;pwe3-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> on behalf of Gregory Mirsky
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">&lt;gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014 4:30 AM<br>
            <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
            <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> [PWE3] Mail regarding
            draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal</font>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div class="WordSection1">
            <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">thank you for your work on this
              document that is very important to PW OAM. Please kindly
              consider my comments below:</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Abstract </p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"This document describes a
              unified mode of operation for Virtual Circuit Connectivity
              Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG discussion
              in Paris was to limit document scope to introduction of
              Control Channel Type 4 for PW VCCV and address unified
              operation of CC VCCV in RFC 5085bis.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>&#8220;It describes new rules requiring
              this mode to be used as the default/mandatory mode of
              operation for VCCV.&#8221; I think this statement is
              over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be
              suggested as preferred in some scenarios, such as CW not
              being used, SS-PW or e2e MS-PW. I think that the strongest
              statement could be &#8220;New implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD
              support CC Type 4.&#8221;</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"The older types will remain
              optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to obsolete Type 2 CC PW
              VCCV.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Requirements Language and
              Terminology. </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">These
              acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE,
              PW-ACH</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Introduction</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"... the ITU-T and IETF have set
              out to enhance MPLS to make it suitable as an optical
              transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be "packet
              transport".</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"In order to support VCCV when an
              MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH had to be created ..."
              G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW VCCV when
              PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085
              control channel types. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded
              GAL from being used on PWs in the first sentence of
              Section 4.2.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"This document defines two modes
              of operation of VCCV ..." Where the document leaves CC
              Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation that the
              PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be
              used in MS-PW to address S-PE whether CW&nbsp; being used or
              not.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"In either case, it will be
              mandatory to implement and use that mode under that
              scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what
              was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Section 2 </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">"...
              Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed"
              Firstly, it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057".
              Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E,
              0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 0x0027, and 0x0058
              would not be listed as valid ACH types?</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Section 3 </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">"In the
              case of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST
              be set to the correct value to reach the intended
              destination PE as described in [RFC6073]" And that would
              be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 used in combination with CC
              Type 4. I think it must be so noted that VCCV CC Type 3
              and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section
              5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW VCCV
              Control Channels Type 1 and Type 3.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Section 4</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">"The first
              nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps &#8220;the
              first nibble of the next octet &#8230;&#8221;. And does that imply
              that GAL MUST be BoS label and thus S=1? Should that be
              explicitly stated?
            </p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
                style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>&middot;<span style="font:
                    7pt/normal &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;
                    font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>Section 5</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>&#8220;If the c-bit is set, indicating
              the use of the control word, type 1 MUST be advertised and
              type 4 MUST NOT be advertised.&#8221; MUST in connection to Type
              1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1. I think that
              this is too strong statement and propose change it to
              &#8220;Type 1 MUST be advertised if supported&#8221; or just &#8220;Type 1
              MAY be advertised&#8221;.</p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;
              margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-family: &quot;Courier
                New&quot;;"><span>o<span style="font: 7pt/normal
                    &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; font-size-adjust: none;
                    font-stretch: normal;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
                  </span></span></span>"If the c-bit is not set,
              indicating that the control word is not in use, type 4
              MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As
              in previous comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is
              too strong and implies it being supported. Similar change
              suggested.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Regards,</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              Greg</p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
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From: Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "stbryant@cisco.com" <stbryant@cisco.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
Thread-Index: AQHP7+UIjsg0YMmrxEaeDi8AxWAw/5w/7alQ
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:02:38 +0000
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References: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1414128851884.41935@ecitele.com> <544AE1B0.2040401@cisco.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B866564@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
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Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" <pwe3@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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And nobody responded :(

I'll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, or is =
progressed in PALS.

Giles

On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:

> This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac-wd-00
>=20
> please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for =
publication as a Standards Track RFC.=20
>=20
> this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.
>=20
> Nabil & Giles


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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: "Andrew McLachlan (amclachl)" <amclachl@cisco.com>, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:28:03 -0400
Thread-Topic: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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Absolutely NOT!!!
I am sorry I missed the call.
Agree that attention has been diverted to newer
Activities in ietf but that does not mean that work
Items in the fading working group should be dropped.
This is implemented and deployed solution.
It is very important work and fills the gap that exist
For static PW configurations.=20

Please issue the last call again..

Thanks,
Himanshu
________________________________________
From: L2vpn [l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew McLachlan (amclach=
l) [amclachl@cisco.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:44 AM
To: Giles Heron
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; pals@ietf.org
Subject: Re: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD

That really should indicate its time to drop it.



> On 24 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And nobody responded :(
>
> I'll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, or is pr=
ogressed in PALS.
>
> Giles
>
>> On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac-wd-00
>>
>> please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for publi=
cation as a Standards Track RFC.
>>
>> this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.
>>
>> Nabil & Giles
>


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To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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Greg

You can mandate new behaviour in the PEs, but not the P routers.

If a packet goes through an older P router that does not know about the 
EL, who knows what it will make of the GAL.

Stewart

On 25/10/2014 00:48, Gregory Mirsky wrote:
>
> Hi Stewart,
>
> you’ve said “…when the GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change …�.
>
> I think that is the case for legacy nodes that do not support Entropy 
> Label and RFC 6790 as it states that reserved, a.k.a. special purpose 
> and extended special purpose, labels MUST NOT be used as keys for 
> load-balancing by transit LSRs.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
> *From:*Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 4:33 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein; Gregory Mirsky; 
> draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org
> *Cc:* pwe3@ietf.org; pals@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
>
> On 24/10/2014 06:34, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
>
>     ​Greg,
>
>     Lots of thanks for a very careful review of the document.
>
>     All your comments look valid to me and, IMO, should be addressed
>     in the next revision of the draft.
>
>
>
> In addition, please see below a couple of comments of my own:
>
>  1. *GAL vs. Flow Label*:
>       * The draft refers to RFC 5586 for the definition of GAL, and
>         this document states that GAL MUST be BoS.
>       * At the same time, RFC 6391 has defined the Flow Label for
>         flow-aware (a.k.a. "fat") PWs, and specified that it MUST be BoS.
>       * It is not clear to me whether GAL and Flow Label can be
>         combined, since they cannot both be BoS. I'd like to remind
>         the authors that this issue has been raised at the very early
>         stages of discussion of VCCV Type 4 (even before it has become
>         a WG document), but it remains unresolved until now.
>
> Thanks for pointing out the conflict.
>
> In the original PW design the PW label was always the bottom label.
> The FAT label was after the PW label for two reasons firstly because 
> you needed the context of the PW label to know to pop it and secondly 
> it had more entropy and so putting it at the bottom seemed like the 
> best place because you expect entropy to increase as you get closer to 
> the bottom of the stack.
>
> Now as I recall the GAL says that the ACH is after the bottom of 
> stack, which means it could actually be anywhere although it was 
> convenient to put it at BOS.
>
> Probably the right things - with suitable update notes is 
> PW/FAT/GAL/ACH. The PW handler then know to discard the FAT and the 
> GAL says look for the ACH.
>
> We have no choice but to include the FAT since it is a property of the 
> PW and the handler always expects it. We could remove it when the GAL 
> is present but is a lot more complex.
>
> What is annoying and hopefully people realize this is that when the 
> GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change - something we carefully 
> avoided with the CW design (which is why we did it like that in the 
> first place.
>
> This then takes me to wonder if we should restrict the GAL solely to 
> the case of a point to point LSP such as we get with RSVP-TE and 
> MPLS-TP, in which case FAT would never be present.
>
> I need some WG input on this.
>
>
> 1.
>  2. *TTL in the PW LSE*:
>       * The draft contains some Editor remarks regarding this issue,
>         but eventually suggests setting TTL=1 in the PW LSE for SS-PWs
>       * To the best of my recollection original Martini drafts have
>         set the PW LSE TTL to 2, and many implementations follow this,
>         even if the PW RFCs have relaxed that to any suitable value
>       * In any case, setting TTL in the PW LSE to 1 would cause many
>         implementations to trap all PW packets to the CP due to TTL
>         expiration; so this looks an error to me,
>
> Yes I remember that. It's an implementation issue in some older h/w 
> that is unlikely to do this. However it's probably OK to maintain the 
> old value as the packet is not going to go very far.
>
> Let me go back and look at the framework RFCs and see if there is 
> anything I am missing.
>
> We should discuss this at the next WG meeting to make sure we are all 
> on the same page.
>
> - Stewart
>
> 1.
>
> Hopefully these comments will be useful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* pwe3 <pwe3-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org> on 
> behalf of Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> 
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 4:30 AM
> *To:* draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* pwe3@ietf.org <mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org 
> <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
>
> Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,
>
> thank you for your work on this document that is very important to PW 
> OAM. Please kindly consider my comments below:
>
> ·Abstract
>
> o"This document describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual 
> Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG 
> discussion in Paris was to limit document scope to introduction of 
> Control Channel Type 4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC 
> VCCV in RFC 5085bis.
>
> o“It describes new rules requiring this mode to be used as the 
> default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV.� I think this statement 
> is over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be suggested as 
> preferred in some scenarios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e 
> MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could be “New 
> implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type 4.�
>
> o"The older types will remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to 
> obsolete Type 2 CC PW VCCV.
>
> ·Requirements Language and Terminology.
>
> These acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH
>
> ·Introduction
>
> o"... the ITU-T and IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it 
> suitable as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be 
> "packet transport".
>
> o"In order to support VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH 
> had to be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW 
> VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085 control 
> channel types. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on 
> PWs in the first sentence of Section 4.2.
>
> o"This document defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the 
> document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation 
> that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be 
> used in MS-PW to address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.
>
> o"In either case, it will be mandatory to implement and use that mode 
> under that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what 
> was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.
>
> ·Section 2
>
> "... Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed" Firstly, 
> it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057". Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 
> 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 
> 0x0027, and 0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?
>
> ·Section 3
>
> "In the case of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be 
> set to the correct value to reach the intended destination PE as 
> described in [RFC6073]" And that would be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 
> used in combination with CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that 
> VCCV CC Type 3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section 
> 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW VCCV Control 
> Channels Type 1 and Type 3.
>
> ·Section 4
>
> "The first nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps “the 
> first nibble of the next octet …�. And does that imply that GAL MUST 
> be BoS label and thus S=1? Should that be explicitly stated?
>
> ·Section 5
>
> o“If the c-bit is set, indicating the use of the control word, type 1 
> MUST be advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised.� MUST in 
> connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1. I think 
> that this is too strong statement and propose change it to “Type 1 
> MUST be advertised if supported� or just “Type 1 MAY be advertised�.
>
> o"If the c-bit is not set, indicating that the control word is not in 
> use, type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As 
> in previous comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and 
> implies it being supported. Similar change suggested.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pwe3 mailing list
> pwe3@ietf.org  <mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> For corporate legal information go to:
>   
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>   


-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg<br>
      <br>
      You can mandate new behaviour in the PEs, but not the P routers.<br>
      <br>
      If a packet goes through an older P router that does not know
      about the EL, who knows what it will make of the GAL.<br>
      <br>
      Stewart<br>
      <br>
      On 25/10/2014 00:48, Gregory Mirsky wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Stewart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">you’ve said
            “…when the GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change …�.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think that is
            the case for legacy nodes that do not support Entropy Label
            and RFC 6790 as it states that reserved, a.k.a. special
            purpose and extended special purpose, labels MUST NOT be
            used as keys for load-balancing by transit LSRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">               
            Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">                               
            Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                Stewart Bryant [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">mailto:stbryant@cisco.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014 4:33 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; Gregory Mirsky;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [PWE3] Mail regarding
                draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 24/10/2014 06:34, Alexander Vainshtein
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p>​Greg, <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>Lots of thanks for a very careful review of the document.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>All your comments look valid to me and, IMO, should be
            addressed in the next revision of the draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>In addition, please see below a couple of comments of my own:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <ol start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo1">
            <strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt">GAL vs. Flow Label</span></strong><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">:
              <o:p></o:p></span>
            <ul type="circle">
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
                level2 lfo1">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">The draft refers to
                  RFC 5586 for the definition of GAL, and this document
                  states that GAL MUST be BoS.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
                level2 lfo1">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">At the same time,
                  RFC 6391 has defined the Flow Label for flow-aware
                  (a.k.a. "fat") PWs, and specified that it MUST be BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
                level2 lfo1">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">It is not clear to
                  me whether GAL and Flow Label can be combined, since
                  they cannot both be BoS. I'd like to remind the
                  authors that this issue has been raised at the very
                  early stages of discussion of VCCV Type 4 (even before
                  it has become a WG document), but it remains
                  unresolved until now.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
            </ul>
          </li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Thanks for pointing out the
            conflict.<br>
            <br>
            In the original PW design the PW label was always the bottom
            label.<br>
            The FAT label was after the PW label for two reasons firstly
            because you needed the context of the PW label to know to
            pop it and secondly it had more entropy and so putting it at
            the bottom seemed like the best place because you expect
            entropy to increase as you get closer to the bottom of the
            stack.<br>
            <br>
            Now as I recall the GAL says that the ACH is after the
            bottom of stack, which means it could actually be anywhere
            although it was convenient to put it at BOS.<br>
            <br>
            Probably the right things - with suitable update notes is
            PW/FAT/GAL/ACH. The PW handler then know to discard the FAT
            and the GAL says look for the ACH.<br>
            <br>
            We have no choice but to include the FAT since it is a
            property of the PW and the handler always expects it. We
            could remove it when the GAL is present but is a lot more
            complex.<br>
            <br>
            What is annoying and hopefully people realize this is that
            when the GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change -
            something we carefully avoided with the CW design (which is
            why we did it like that in the first place.<br>
            <br>
            This then takes me to wonder if we should restrict the GAL
            solely to the case of a point to point LSP such as we get
            with RSVP-TE and MPLS-TP, in which case FAT would never be
            present.<br>
            <br>
            I need some WG input on this.<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ol start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
            level1 lfo2">
            <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
            level1 lfo2">
            <strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt">TTL in the PW LSE</span></strong><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">:
              <o:p></o:p></span>
            <ul type="circle">
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
                level2 lfo2">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">The draft contains
                  some Editor remarks regarding this issue, but
                  eventually suggests setting TTL=1 in the PW LSE for
                  SS-PWs<o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
                level2 lfo2">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">To the best of my
                  recollection original Martini drafts have set the PW
                  LSE TTL to 2, and many implementations follow this,
                  even if the PW RFCs have relaxed that to any suitable
                  value<o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
                level2 lfo2">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">In any case,
                  setting TTL in the PW LSE to 1 would cause many
                  implementations to trap all PW packets to the CP due
                  to TTL expiration; so this looks an error to me, 
                  <o:p></o:p></span></li>
            </ul>
          </li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Yes I remember that. It's an
            implementation issue in some older h/w that is unlikely to
            do this. However it's probably OK to maintain the old value
            as the packet is not going to go very far.<br>
            <br>
            Let me go back and look at the framework RFCs and see if
            there is anything I am missing.<br>
            <br>
            We should discuss this at the next WG meeting to make sure
            we are all on the same page.<br>
            <br>
            - Stewart<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ol start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo3">
            <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>Hopefully these comments will be useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
            align="center"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">
              <hr align="center" size="2" width="98%">
            </span></div>
          <div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> pwe3 <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;pwe3-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
              on behalf of Gregory Mirsky
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">&lt;gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014 4:30 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>; <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pals@ietf.org">
                pals@ietf.org</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> [PWE3] Mail regarding
              draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal<span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">thank you for your work on this
                document that is very important to PW OAM. Please kindly
                consider my comments below:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Abstract <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"This document
                  describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual
                  Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO,
                  agreement of WG discussion in Paris was to limit
                  document scope to introduction of Control Channel Type
                  4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC VCCV
                  in RFC 5085bis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">“It describes new
                  rules requiring this mode to be used as the
                  default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV.� I think
                  this statement is over-reaching. Use of Control
                  Channel Type 4 may be suggested as preferred in some
                  scenarios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e
                  MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could be
                  “New implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type
                  4.�<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"The older types will
                  remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to obsolete Type
                  2 CC PW VCCV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Requirements Language
                  and Terminology. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">These
                acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE,
                PW-ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Introduction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"... the ITU-T and
                  IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it suitable
                  as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should
                  be "packet transport".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"In order to support
                  VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH had to
                  be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not
                  PW. PW VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of
                  described in RFC 5085 control channel types. And RFC
                  5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on PWs in
                  the first sentence of Section 4.2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"This document
                  defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the
                  document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW
                  VCCV operation that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I
                  believe that only Type 3 can be used in MS-PW to
                  address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"In either case, it
                  will be mandatory to implement and use that mode under
                  that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync
                  with what was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 2 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"...
                Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed"
                Firstly, it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057".
                Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E,
                0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 0x0027, and
                0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 3 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"In the case
                of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be
                set to the correct value to reach the intended
                destination PE as described in [RFC6073]" And that would
                be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 used in combination with
                CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that VCCV CC Type
                3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section
                5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW
                VCCV Control Channels Type 1 and Type 3.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"The first
                nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps
                “the first nibble of the next octet …�. And does that
                imply that GAL MUST be BoS label and thus S=1? Should
                that be explicitly stated?
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">“If the c-bit is set,
                  indicating the use of the control word, type 1 MUST be
                  advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised.� MUST in
                  connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC
                  Type 1. I think that this is too strong statement and
                  propose change it to “Type 1 MUST be advertised if
                  supported� or just “Type 1 MAY be advertised�.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  ;&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"If the c-bit is not
                  set, indicating that the control word is not in use,
                  type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be
                  advertised." As in previous comment, MUST in
                  connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and implies it
                  being supported. Similar change suggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">               
                Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre>pwe3 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre>For corporate legal information go to:<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
        <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

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To: Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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On 25/10/2014 01:02, Shahram Davari wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Good point. We have always assumed the order is PW Label, FAT Label, 
> GAL (BoS). This seems to be the more logical way of doing it.
>
Shahram

Isn't that what I proposed?

However I still don't see how GAL is ECMP safe given that we have no 
knowledge of the age/type of P router on the path.

Stewart
>
> Thx
> Shahram
>
> *From:*pwe3 [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Gregory Mirsky
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 4:48 PM
> *To:* stbryant@cisco.com; Alexander Vainshtein; 
> draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org
> *Cc:* pwe3@ietf.org; pals@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
>
> Hi Stewart,
>
> you’ve said “…when the GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change …�.
>
> I think that is the case for legacy nodes that do not support Entropy 
> Label and RFC 6790 as it states that reserved, a.k.a. special purpose 
> and extended special purpose, labels MUST NOT be used as keys for 
> load-balancing by transit LSRs.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
> *From:*Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 4:33 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein; Gregory Mirsky; 
> draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* pwe3@ietf.org <mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org 
> <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
>
> On 24/10/2014 06:34, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
>
>     ​Greg,
>
>     Lots of thanks for a very careful review of the document.
>
>     All your comments look valid to me and, IMO, should be addressed
>     in the next revision of the draft.
>
> In addition, please see below a couple of comments of my own:
>
>  1. *GAL vs. Flow Label*:
>       * The draft refers to RFC 5586 for the definition of GAL, and
>         this document states that GAL MUST be BoS.
>       * At the same time, RFC 6391 has defined the Flow Label for
>         flow-aware (a.k.a. "fat") PWs, and specified that it MUST be BoS.
>       * It is not clear to me whether GAL and Flow Label can be
>         combined, since they cannot both be BoS. I'd like to remind
>         the authors that this issue has been raised at the very early
>         stages of discussion of VCCV Type 4 (even before it has become
>         a WG document), but it remains unresolved until now.
>
> Thanks for pointing out the conflict.
>
> In the original PW design the PW label was always the bottom label.
> The FAT label was after the PW label for two reasons firstly because 
> you needed the context of the PW label to know to pop it and secondly 
> it had more entropy and so putting it at the bottom seemed like the 
> best place because you expect entropy to increase as you get closer to 
> the bottom of the stack.
>
> Now as I recall the GAL says that the ACH is after the bottom of 
> stack, which means it could actually be anywhere although it was 
> convenient to put it at BOS.
>
> Probably the right things - with suitable update notes is 
> PW/FAT/GAL/ACH. The PW handler then know to discard the FAT and the 
> GAL says look for the ACH.
>
> We have no choice but to include the FAT since it is a property of the 
> PW and the handler always expects it. We could remove it when the GAL 
> is present but is a lot more complex.
>
> What is annoying and hopefully people realize this is that when the 
> GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change - something we carefully 
> avoided with the CW design (which is why we did it like that in the 
> first place.
>
> This then takes me to wonder if we should restrict the GAL solely to 
> the case of a point to point LSP such as we get with RSVP-TE and 
> MPLS-TP, in which case FAT would never be present.
>
> I need some WG input on this.
>
> 1.
>  2. *TTL in the PW LSE*:
>       * The draft contains some Editor remarks regarding this issue,
>         but eventually suggests setting TTL=1 in the PW LSE for SS-PWs
>       * To the best of my recollection original Martini drafts have
>         set the PW LSE TTL to 2, and many implementations follow this,
>         even if the PW RFCs have relaxed that to any suitable value
>       * In any case, setting TTL in the PW LSE to 1 would cause many
>         implementations to trap all PW packets to the CP due to TTL
>         expiration; so this looks an error to me,
>
> Yes I remember that. It's an implementation issue in some older h/w 
> that is unlikely to do this. However it's probably OK to maintain the 
> old value as the packet is not going to go very far.
>
> Let me go back and look at the framework RFCs and see if there is 
> anything I am missing.
>
> We should discuss this at the next WG meeting to make sure we are all 
> on the same page.
>
> - Stewart
>
> 1.
>
> Hopefully these comments will be useful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* pwe3 <pwe3-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org> on 
> behalf of Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> 
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 4:30 AM
> *To:* draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* pwe3@ietf.org <mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org 
> <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
>
> Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,
>
> thank you for your work on this document that is very important to PW 
> OAM. Please kindly consider my comments below:
>
> ·Abstract
>
> o"This document describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual 
> Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO, agreement of WG 
> discussion in Paris was to limit document scope to introduction of 
> Control Channel Type 4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC 
> VCCV in RFC 5085bis.
>
> o“It describes new rules requiring this mode to be used as the 
> default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV.� I think this statement 
> is over-reaching. Use of Control Channel Type 4 may be suggested as 
> preferred in some scenarios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e 
> MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could be “New 
> implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type 4.�
>
> o"The older types will remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to 
> obsolete Type 2 CC PW VCCV.
>
> ·Requirements Language and Terminology.
>
> These acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE, PW-ACH
>
> ·Introduction
>
> o"... the ITU-T and IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it 
> suitable as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should be 
> "packet transport".
>
> o"In order to support VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH 
> had to be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not PW. PW 
> VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of described in RFC 5085 control 
> channel types. And RFC 5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on 
> PWs in the first sentence of Section 4.2.
>
> o"This document defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the 
> document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW VCCV operation 
> that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I believe that only Type 3 can be 
> used in MS-PW to address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.
>
> o"In either case, it will be mandatory to implement and use that mode 
> under that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync with what 
> was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.
>
> ·Section 2
>
> "... Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed" Firstly, 
> it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057". Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 
> 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E, 0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 
> 0x0027, and 0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?
>
> ·Section 3
>
> "In the case of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be 
> set to the correct value to reach the intended destination PE as 
> described in [RFC6073]" And that would be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 
> used in combination with CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that 
> VCCV CC Type 3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section 
> 5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW VCCV Control 
> Channels Type 1 and Type 3.
>
> ·Section 4
>
> "The first nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps “the 
> first nibble of the next octet …�. And does that imply that GAL MUST 
> be BoS label and thus S=1? Should that be explicitly stated?
>
> ·Section 5
>
> o“If the c-bit is set, indicating the use of the control word, type 1 
> MUST be advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised.� MUST in 
> connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC Type 1. I think 
> that this is too strong statement and propose change it to “Type 1 
> MUST be advertised if supported� or just “Type 1 MAY be advertised�.
>
> o"If the c-bit is not set, indicating that the control word is not in 
> use, type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be advertised." As 
> in previous comment, MUST in connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and 
> implies it being supported. Similar change suggested.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pwe3 mailing list
> pwe3@ietf.org  <mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3
>
>
>
> -- 
> For corporate legal information go to:
>   
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>   


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/10/2014 01:02, Shahram Davari
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Good point. We
            have always assumed the order is PW Label, FAT Label, GAL
            (BoS). This seems to be the more logical way of doing it.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Shahram<br>
    <br>
    Isn't that what I proposed?<br>
    <br>
    However I still don't see how GAL is ECMP safe given that we have no
    knowledge of the age/type of P router on the path.<br>
    <br>
    Stewart<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D5E6DF@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thx<br>
            Shahram<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                pwe3 [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>Gregory Mirsky<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014 4:48 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>; Alexander Vainshtein;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [PWE3] Mail regarding
                draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Stewart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">you’ve said
            “…when the GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change …�.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think that is
            the case for legacy nodes that do not support Entropy Label
            and RFC 6790 as it states that reserved, a.k.a. special
            purpose and extended special purpose, labels MUST NOT be
            used as keys for load-balancing by transit LSRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">               
            Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">                               
            Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                Stewart Bryant [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">mailto:stbryant@cisco.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014 4:33 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein; Gregory Mirsky; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org">
                  draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pals@ietf.org">
                  pals@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [PWE3] Mail regarding
                draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 24/10/2014 06:34, Alexander Vainshtein
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p>​Greg, <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>Lots of thanks for a very careful review of the document.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>All your comments look valid to me and, IMO, should be
            addressed in the next revision of the draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>In addition, please see below a couple of comments of my own:<o:p></o:p></p>
        <ol start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5
            level1 lfo3">
            <strong><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">GAL
                vs. Flow Label</span></strong><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">:
              <o:p></o:p></span>
            <ul type="circle">
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5
                level2 lfo3">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">The draft refers to
                  RFC 5586 for the definition of GAL, and this document
                  states that GAL MUST be BoS.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5
                level2 lfo3">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">At the same time,
                  RFC 6391 has defined the Flow Label for flow-aware
                  (a.k.a. "fat") PWs, and specified that it MUST be BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5
                level2 lfo3">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">It is not clear to
                  me whether GAL and Flow Label can be combined, since
                  they cannot both be BoS. I'd like to remind the
                  authors that this issue has been raised at the very
                  early stages of discussion of VCCV Type 4 (even before
                  it has become a WG document), but it remains
                  unresolved until now.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
            </ul>
          </li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Thanks for pointing out the
            conflict.<br>
            <br>
            In the original PW design the PW label was always the bottom
            label.<br>
            The FAT label was after the PW label for two reasons firstly
            because you needed the context of the PW label to know to
            pop it and secondly it had more entropy and so putting it at
            the bottom seemed like the best place because you expect
            entropy to increase as you get closer to the bottom of the
            stack.<br>
            <br>
            Now as I recall the GAL says that the ACH is after the
            bottom of stack, which means it could actually be anywhere
            although it was convenient to put it at BOS.<br>
            <br>
            Probably the right things - with suitable update notes is
            PW/FAT/GAL/ACH. The PW handler then know to discard the FAT
            and the GAL says look for the ACH.<br>
            <br>
            We have no choice but to include the FAT since it is a
            property of the PW and the handler always expects it. We
            could remove it when the GAL is present but is a lot more
            complex.<br>
            <br>
            What is annoying and hopefully people realize this is that
            when the GAL is that the ECMP path is likely to change -
            something we carefully avoided with the CW design (which is
            why we did it like that in the first place.<br>
            <br>
            This then takes me to wonder if we should restrict the GAL
            solely to the case of a point to point LSP such as we get
            with RSVP-TE and MPLS-TP, in which case FAT would never be
            present.<br>
            <br>
            I need some WG input on this.<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ol start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
            level1 lfo6">
            <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
            level1 lfo6">
            <strong><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">TTL
                in the PW LSE</span></strong><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">:
              <o:p></o:p></span>
            <ul type="circle">
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
                level2 lfo6">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">The draft contains
                  some Editor remarks regarding this issue, but
                  eventually suggests setting TTL=1 in the PW LSE for
                  SS-PWs<o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
                level2 lfo6">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">To the best of my
                  recollection original Martini drafts have set the PW
                  LSE TTL to 2, and many implementations follow this,
                  even if the PW RFCs have relaxed that to any suitable
                  value<o:p></o:p></span></li>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4
                level2 lfo6">
                <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">In any case,
                  setting TTL in the PW LSE to 1 would cause many
                  implementations to trap all PW packets to the CP due
                  to TTL expiration; so this looks an error to me, 
                  <o:p></o:p></span></li>
            </ul>
          </li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Yes I remember that. It's an
            implementation issue in some older h/w that is unlikely to
            do this. However it's probably OK to maintain the old value
            as the packet is not going to go very far.<br>
            <br>
            Let me go back and look at the framework RFCs and see if
            there is anything I am missing.<br>
            <br>
            We should discuss this at the next WG meeting to make sure
            we are all on the same page.<br>
            <br>
            - Stewart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ol start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3
            level1 lfo9">
            <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>Hopefully these comments will be useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
            align="center"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">
              <hr align="center" size="2" width="98%">
            </span></div>
          <div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> pwe3 <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;pwe3-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
              on behalf of Gregory Mirsky
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">&lt;gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014 4:30 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a>; <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pals@ietf.org">
                pals@ietf.org</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> [PWE3] Mail regarding
              draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal<span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Authors, Editors, et. al,<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">thank you for your work on this
                document that is very important to PW OAM. Please kindly
                consider my comments below:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Abstract <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"This document
                  describes a unified mode of operation for Virtual
                  Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) ..." IMHO,
                  agreement of WG discussion in Paris was to limit
                  document scope to introduction of Control Channel Type
                  4 for PW VCCV and address unified operation of CC VCCV
                  in RFC 5085bis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">“It describes new
                  rules requiring this mode to be used as the
                  default/mandatory mode of operation for VCCV.� I think
                  this statement is over-reaching. Use of Control
                  Channel Type 4 may be suggested as preferred in some
                  scenarios, such as CW not being used, SS-PW or e2e
                  MS-PW. I think that the strongest statement could be
                  “New implementations of PW VCCV SHOULD support CC Type
                  4.�<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"The older types will
                  remain optional." IMHO, the WG agreed to obsolete Type
                  2 CC PW VCCV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Requirements Language
                  and Terminology. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">These
                acronyms are not used in the document: AVP, L2SS, LCCE,
                PW-ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Introduction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"... the ITU-T and
                  IETF have set out to enhance MPLS to make it suitable
                  as an optical transport protocol ..." Perhaps should
                  be "packet transport".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"In order to support
                  VCCV when an MPLS-TP PSN is in use, the GAL-ACH had to
                  be created ..." G-ACh was created for MPLS-TP LSP, not
                  PW. PW VCCV when PSN is MPLS-TP can use any of
                  described in RFC 5085 control channel types. And RFC
                  5586 explicitly excluded GAL from being used on PWs in
                  the first sentence of Section 4.2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"This document
                  defines two modes of operation of VCCV ..." Where the
                  document leaves CC Type 3? Isn't it valid mode of PW
                  VCCV operation that the PWE3 WG decided to keep? I
                  believe that only Type 3 can be used in MS-PW to
                  address S-PE whether CW  being used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"In either case, it
                  will be mandatory to implement and use that mode under
                  that scenario." Again, this conclusion is not in sync
                  with what was agreed at PWE3 WG meeting in Paris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 2 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"...
                Associated Channel Types of 21, 07, or 57 are allowed"
                Firstly, it should be "0x0021, 0x007, or 0x0057".
                Secondly, why 0x000A, 0x000B, 0x000C, 0x000D, 0x000E,
                0x0022, 0x0023, 0x0024, 0x0025, 0x0026, 0x0027, and
                0x0058 would not be listed as valid ACH types?<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 3 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"In the case
                of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be
                set to the correct value to reach the intended
                destination PE as described in [RFC6073]" And that would
                be the case of VCCV CC Type 3 used in combination with
                CC Type 4. I think it must be so noted that VCCV CC Type
                3 and CC Type 4 can be used in combination since Section
                5.1.3 of RFC 5085 explicitly allows combination of PW
                VCCV Control Channels Type 1 and Type 3.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"The first
                nibble of the next field is set to 0001b ..." Perhaps
                “the first nibble of the next octet …�. And does that
                imply that GAL MUST be BoS label and thus S=1? Should
                that be explicitly stated?
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:Symbol;color:#212121">·</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">        
                </span><span style="color:#212121">Section 5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">“If the c-bit is set,
                  indicating the use of the control word, type 1 MUST be
                  advertised and type 4 MUST NOT be advertised.� MUST in
                  connection to Type 1 implicitly requires support of CC
                  Type 1. I think that this is too strong statement and
                  propose change it to “Type 1 MUST be advertised if
                  supported� or just “Type 1 MAY be advertised�.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Courier New
                  \;&quot;;color:#212121">o</span><span
                  style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                  Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#212121">  
                </span><span style="color:#212121">"If the c-bit is not
                  set, indicating that the control word is not in use,
                  type 4 MUST be advertised, and type 1 MUST NOT be
                  advertised." As in previous comment, MUST in
                  connection to CC Type 4 is too strong and implies it
                  being supported. Similar change suggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">               
                Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre>pwe3 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pwe3@ietf.org">pwe3@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre>For corporate legal information go to:<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
        <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a>

</pre>
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From: Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>
To: "<stbryant@cisco.com>" <stbryant@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:28:07 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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--001a11c03ff0f5aff9050640f2ca
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This got caught up in the transition between WGs. PALS has a milestone for
the draft, and the WG last call will be re-run in PALS once our chartering
is complete. The WG chairs will also discuss the handoff of any other l2vpn
WG last calls in progress.

Cheers,
Andy


On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Shah, Himanshu <hshah@ciena.com> wrote:

> Absolutely NOT!!!
> I am sorry I missed the call.
> Agree that attention has been diverted to newer
> Activities in ietf but that does not mean that work
> Items in the fading working group should be dropped.
> This is implemented and deployed solution.
> It is very important work and fills the gap that exist
> For static PW configurations.
>
> Please issue the last call again..
>
> Thanks,
> Himanshu
> ________________________________________
> From: L2vpn [l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew McLachlan
> (amclachl) [amclachl@cisco.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:44 AM
> To: Giles Heron
> Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; pals@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
>
> That really should indicate its time to drop it.
>
>
>
> > On 24 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And nobody responded :(
> >
> > I'll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, or is
> progressed in PALS.
> >
> > Giles
> >
> >> On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:
> >>
> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac-wd-00
> >>
> >> please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for
> publication as a Standards Track RFC.
> >>
> >> this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.
> >>
> >> Nabil & Giles
> >
>
>

--001a11c03ff0f5aff9050640f2ca
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">This got caught up in the transition between WGs. PALS has=
 a milestone for the draft, and the WG last call will be re-run in PALS onc=
e our chartering is complete. The WG chairs will also discuss the handoff o=
f any other l2vpn WG last calls in progress.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Cheer=
s,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Shah, Himanshu =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hshah@ciena.com" target=3D"_blank">=
hshah@ciena.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Abs=
olutely NOT!!!<br>
I am sorry I missed the call.<br>
Agree that attention has been diverted to newer<br>
Activities in ietf but that does not mean that work<br>
Items in the fading working group should be dropped.<br>
This is implemented and deployed solution.<br>
It is very important work and fills the gap that exist<br>
For static PW configurations.<br>
<br>
Please issue the last call again..<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Himanshu<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: L2vpn [<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org">l2vpn-bounces@ietf.o=
rg</a>] On Behalf Of Andrew McLachlan (amclachl) [<a href=3D"mailto:amclach=
l@cisco.com">amclachl@cisco.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:44 AM<br>
To: Giles Heron<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto=
:pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
That really should indicate its time to drop it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On 24 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Giles Heron &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giles.hero=
n@gmail.com">giles.heron@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And nobody responded :(<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;ll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, o=
r is progressed in PALS.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Giles<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giles.=
heron@gmail.com">giles.heron@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac=
-wd-00" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-=
tp-mac-wd-00</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for=
 publication as a Standards Track RFC.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Nabil &amp; Giles<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c03ff0f5aff9050640f2ca--


From nobody Sat Oct 25 09:05:15 2014
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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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I agree. Crickets don't implement drafts.

Tom=20




> On Oct 25, 2014, at 12:44 AM, Andrew McLachlan (amclachl) <amclachl@cisco.=
com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> That really should indicate its time to drop it.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 24 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> And nobody responded :(
>>=20
>> I'll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, or is pr=
ogressed in PALS.
>>=20
>> Giles
>>=20
>>> On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:
>>>=20
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac-wd-00
>>>=20
>>> please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for publi=
cation as a Standards Track RFC.=20
>>>=20
>>> this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.
>>>=20
>>> Nabil & Giles
>=20
>=20


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From: "Siva Sivabalan (msiva)" <msiva@cisco.com>
To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "Andrew McLachlan (amclachl)" <amclachl@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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Tom,
Do not understand what "Crickets don't implement drafts" means. ......

Here is the quote from Andy Malis:

This got caught up in the transition between WGs. PALS has a milestone for =
the draft, and the WG last call will be re-run in PALS once our chartering =
is complete. The WG chairs will also discuss the handoff of any other l2vpn=
 WG last calls in progress.=20

Cheers,
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Nadeau
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:05 PM
To: Andrew McLachlan (amclachl)
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Giles Heron; pals@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD

I agree. Crickets don't implement drafts.

Tom=20




> On Oct 25, 2014, at 12:44 AM, Andrew McLachlan (amclachl) <amclachl@cisco=
.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> That really should indicate its time to drop it.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 24 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> And nobody responded :(
>>=20
>> I'll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, or is p=
rogressed in PALS.
>>=20
>> Giles
>>=20
>>> On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:
>>>=20
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac-wd-00
>>>=20
>>> please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for publ=
ication as a Standards Track RFC.=20
>>>=20
>>> this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.
>>>=20
>>> Nabil & Giles
>=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
Pals mailing list
Pals@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals


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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, "Andrew McLachlan (amclachl)" <amclachl@cisco.com>, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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From nobody Sat Oct 25 09:24:39 2014
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>,  Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:24:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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Cc: "Patrice Brissette \(pbrisset\)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>, "Kamran Raza \(skraza\)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Gideon Agmon <Gideon.Agmon@ecitele.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "matt.turlington@verizon.com" <matt.turlington@verizon.com>, "nick.delregno@verizon.com" <nick.delregno@verizon.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [Pals] Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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--_000_9a61a199734f47bfad5ae127f546b5fbDB4PR03MB395eurprd03pro_--


From nobody Sat Oct 25 09:46:58 2014
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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References: <EBF13062-39B3-4AC0-A18B-38AC4712BA70@gmail.com> <, > <B70C17E7-E718-4525-B2A6-0FB459237EBE@gmail.com> <, > <A0D3C3A4-7B58-402F-9E5B-64B86E0AC328@cisco.com> <40746B2300A8FC4AB04EE722A593182B7D26FBF2@ONWVEXCHMB04.ciena.com>
To: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
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Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" <l2vpn@ietf.org>, "Andrew McLachlan \(amclachl\)" <amclachl@cisco.com>, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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The confusion was due to the mix up of IPR call related to the draft =
with the LC. Later on there was another email saying, the IPR call was =
issues wrongly.
Hence, couldn=E2=80=99t respond to the LC email.

-sam


> On Oct 25, 2014, at 5:28 AM, Shah, Himanshu <hshah@ciena.com> wrote:
>=20
> Absolutely NOT!!!
> I am sorry I missed the call.
> Agree that attention has been diverted to newer
> Activities in ietf but that does not mean that work
> Items in the fading working group should be dropped.
> This is implemented and deployed solution.
> It is very important work and fills the gap that exist
> For static PW configurations.=20
>=20
> Please issue the last call again..
>=20
> Thanks,
> Himanshu
> ________________________________________
> From: L2vpn [l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew McLachlan =
(amclachl) [amclachl@cisco.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:44 AM
> To: Giles Heron
> Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; pals@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
>=20
> That really should indicate its time to drop it.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 24 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> And nobody responded :(
>>=20
>> I'll discuss with the PALS chairs as to whether this is dropped, or =
is progressed in PALS.
>>=20
>> Giles
>>=20
>>> On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:20, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> This email initiates an IETF L2VPN WG Last Call for:
>>>=20
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-mpls-tp-mac-wd-00
>>>=20
>>> please comment to the list as to the suitability of this draft for =
publication as a Standards Track RFC.
>>>=20
>>> this last call will close on Friday 24th October 2014.
>>>=20
>>> Nabil & Giles
>>=20
>=20


From nobody Sat Oct 25 16:39:16 2014
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Thread-Topic: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 23:39:03 +0000
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References: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B865AB6@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1414128851884.41935@ecitele.com> <544AE1B0.2040401@cisco.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B866564@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F2831D5E6DF@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <544B9F9E.7090001@cisco.com>, <718B5C6C-6099-4C09-B3B6-2F8C72A113F2@broadcom.com>
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Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal@tools.ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "pwe3@ietf.org" <pwe3@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] [PWE3] Mail regarding draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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Cc: "Patrice Brissette \(pbrisset\)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>, "Kamran Raza \(skraza\)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Gideon Agmon <Gideon.Agmon@ecitele.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "matt.turlington@verizon.com" <matt.turlington@verizon.com>, "nick.delregno@verizon.com" <nick.delregno@verizon.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [Pals] Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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From: "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" <pbrisset@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "Sami Boutros (sboutros)" <sboutros@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:24:30 +0000
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Cc: "Kamran Raza \(skraza\)" <skraza@cisco.com>, Gideon Agmon <Gideon.Agmon@ecitele.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>, "matt.turlington@verizon.com" <matt.turlington@verizon.com>, "nick.delregno@verizon.com" <nick.delregno@verizon.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [Pals] Comments on draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request-00
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From nobody Mon Oct 27 06:53:46 2014
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com>, "'nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com'" <nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com>
Thread-Topic: L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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Subject: Re: [Pals] L2VPN WG LC for MPLS-TP MAC-WD
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From nobody Tue Oct 28 08:23:13 2014
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Sender: Thomas Morin <tmmorin.orange@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:23:01 +0100
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Subject: [Pals] Fwd: Draft agenda for the BESS WG IETF 91 Meeting
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For your information.

-Thomas

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Message-ID: <544FB481.1020009@orange.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:21:37 +0100
From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
Organization: Orange
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Hi everyone,

You can find our *draft* agenda at:
    http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-bess

Note well that this agenda is subject to change.
Do no hesitate to send us your feedback and comments.

Best,

-Thomas & Martin

--------------050003090902050508070002--


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
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Subject: [Pals] Just got word that PALS is official
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--047d7b673fb6964d8e0506a8e57f
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Sorry for the cross-posting, this will be the last time!

I just heard from Adrian that PALS has been approved by the IESG! You can
see the new charter at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/pals/charter/ . I
would like to take this opportunity to thank Matthew, Giles, and Nabil for
all of their work with PWE3 and L2VPN.

Going forward, please use the PALS list rather than the PWE3 or L2VPN
lists. As WG drafts get updated, we'll remind authors to start using
draft-ietf-pals for their names, but there's no reason to update existing
WG drafts until they need updating anyway.

PALS will be meeting in the former L2VPN slot on Wednesday at 13:00-15:00,
and the former PWE3 slot on Friday will be returned to the secretariat for
reuse if necessary.

At some point, the datatracker and other tools will be updated to reflect
the new WG.

Please let Stewart and me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Andy
Your new PALS co-chair

--047d7b673fb6964d8e0506a8e57f
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Sorry for the cross-posting, this will be the last ti=
me!</div><div><br></div>I just heard from Adrian that PALS has been approve=
d by the IESG! You can see the new charter at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/wg/pals/charter/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/pals/char=
ter/</a> . I would like to take this opportunity to thank Matthew, Giles, a=
nd Nabil for all of their work with PWE3 and L2VPN.<div><br></div><div>Goin=
g forward, please use the PALS list rather than the PWE3 or L2VPN lists. As=
 WG drafts get updated, we&#39;ll remind authors to start using draft-ietf-=
pals for their names, but there&#39;s no reason to update existing WG draft=
s until they need updating anyway.</div><div><br></div><div>PALS will be me=
eting in the former L2VPN slot on Wednesday at 13:00-15:00, and the former =
PWE3 slot on Friday will be returned to the secretariat for reuse if necess=
ary.</div><div><br></div><div>At some point, the datatracker and other tool=
s will be updated to reflect the new WG.</div><div><br></div><div>Please le=
t Stewart and me know if you have any questions.</div><div><br></div><div>T=
hanks,</div><div>Andy</div><div>Your new PALS co-chair</div><div><br></div>=
</div>

--047d7b673fb6964d8e0506a8e57f--


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From: David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>
To: "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] PALS IETF 91 Slot Requests - Honolulu
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Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" <l2vpn@ietf.org>, Andrew Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>, "IETF.PWE3" <pwe3@ietf.org>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>, Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Pals] [bess] PALS IETF 91 Slot Requests - Honolulu
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--_000_D0783C46157559davidsinicropeericssoncom_
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Hi All,
I=92m still waiting on the tools to catch up with the new WG to post the ag=
enda on the meeting materials web pages.

In the meantime, below is the draft PALS agenda for Honolulu.
If you requested a slot and I haven=92t allocated one, my apologies, please=
 complete the form below and send it in reply to this email.
If you haven=92t requested a slot and need one, please complete the form be=
low and send it in reply to this email no later than 31 October 2014 12:00 =
EDT.
*** Taking a couple of minutes to complete the form helps me complete the a=
genda quickly and accurately.

Those that have slots allocated, please send me your slides no later than M=
onday 10 Nov 2014 17:00 Honolulu time.
If I don=92t have your slides by that time, you risk losing your slot.
Thanks!
Dave


**********************************************************************
IETF 91 PALS - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 13:00 - 15:00 Coral 4
(45/120 min allocated; ** Please note the time adjustments.)
**********************************************************************
Chairs: Stewart Bryant and Andy Malis
Secretary: David Sinicrope
(x =3D slide sets NOT received as of October 30, 2014 19:00 EDT)

x1. 15 min - Agenda bash, WG Agenda and Status - Andy MALIS and Stewart BRY=
ANT


x2. 10 min - MPLS LDP - Patrice BRISSETTE
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-brissette-pals-pw-fec-label-request
Objective:  First submission, asking for feedback


x3. 10 min - S-PE Outage Protection for Static Multi-Segment Pseudowires - =
Andy MALIS
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shawam-pwe3-ms-pw-protection-02
Objective: Update showing new solution based on received comments from the =
previous revision, to prepare for WG adoption request.


x4. 10 min - A Unified Control Channel for Pseudowires - Stewart BRYANT
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-for-gal
Objective: Discuss comments and get some working group feedback on how they=
 were addressed or will be addressed.

**********************************************************************
Overflow (Will be presented if time permits.)
**********************************************************************

xx. - None currently

**********************************************************************
REMOTE INFORMATION FOR THE PALS SESSION(S)
**********************************************************************
Remote Participation Info:
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/remote-participation.html

- No WebEx
- Audio and Jabber are TBD


On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:06 PM, David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.=
com<mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>> wrote:

Hi All,
Time to request presentation slots for IETF 91.

If you need a presentation slot for the IETF 91 PALS session, please reply =
to this email (subject intact) completing the form below.   If L2VPNers are=
n't sure if their drafts will be addressed in PALS or BESS, they can send i=
n a request, and slot requests that belong to BESS will be forwarded with a=
 copy to the requester.  (See Andy=92s email below.)

Please use this form and please reply to this email.

- topic (e.g., MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interworking):
- draft URL (e.g., http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth=
-oam-iwk/):
- brief statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and re=
solved via the presentation during the meeting  (e.g., need to address secu=
rity issues and get direction from the WG):
- requested duration (norm is 10 min):
- speaker Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE):

Thanks!
Dave


From: Andrew Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Friday, October 17, 2014 at 3:25 AM
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "IETF.PWE3" <pwe3@ietf.org<mailto:pwe3@ietf.org>>, "l2vpn@ietf.org<mail=
to:l2vpn@ietf.org>" <l2vpn@ietf.org<mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org>>, Stewart Bryant=
 <stbryant@cisco.com<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>>, David A Sinicrope <david.=
sinicrope@ericsson.com<mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>>
Subject: PALS WG on its way ....

If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the expectation is th=
at PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks, and will meet i=
n Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN, Wednesday at 13=
:00. Our WG Secretary, David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda i=
tems. For those of you that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be pre=
senting at PALS instead. For those of you that were planning to present at =
L2VPN, you may be presenting at PALS or at BESS, the latter primarily for E=
VPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any questions.

We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward. My =
understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been auto-subscr=
ibed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on the PWE3 li=
st, you have to sign up for the PALS list on your own. The relevant informa=
tion for the list is:

List address: pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals

Thanks,
Andy


_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org<mailto:BESS@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess



--_000_D0783C46157559davidsinicropeericssoncom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px;">
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hi All,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I=92m still waiting on the t=
ools to catch up with the new WG to post the agenda on the meeting material=
s web pages.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">In the meantime, below is th=
e draft PALS agenda for Honolulu.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">If you requested a slot and =
I haven=92t allocated one, my apologies, please complete the form below and=
 send it in reply to this email.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">If you haven=92t requested a=
 slot and need one, please complete the form below and send it in reply to =
this email no later than<b> 31 October 2014 12:00 EDT</b>.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">*** Taking a couple of minut=
es to complete the form helps me complete the agenda quickly and accurately=
. &nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Those that have slots alloca=
ted, please send me your slides no later than Monday 10 Nov 2014 17:00 Hono=
lulu time.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">If I don=92t have your slide=
s by that time, you risk losing your slot.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Thanks!</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dave</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">***********************************************=
***********************</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">IETF 91 PALS - Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 1=
3:00 - 15:00 Coral 4</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">(45/120 min allocated; ** Please note the time =
adjustments.)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">***********************************************=
***********************</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Chairs: Stewart Bryant and Andy Malis</font></d=
iv>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Secretary: David Sinicrope</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">(x =3D slide sets NOT received as of October 30=
, 2014 19:00 EDT)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">x1. 15 min - Agenda bash, WG Agenda and Status =
- Andy MALIS and Stewart BRYANT</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">x2. 10 min - MPLS LDP - Patrice BRISSETTE</font=
></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-brissette=
-pals-pw-fec-label-request</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Objective: &nbsp;First submission, asking for f=
eedback</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">x3. 10 min - S-PE Outage Protection for Static =
Multi-Segment Pseudowires - Andy MALIS</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shawam-pwe3-ms=
-pw-protection-02</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Objective: Update showing new solution based on=
 received comments from the previous revision, to prepare for WG adoption r=
equest.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">x4. 10 min - A Unified Control Channel for Pseu=
dowires - Stewart BRYANT</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3=
-vccv-for-gal</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Objective: Discuss comments and get some workin=
g group feedback on how they were addressed or will be addressed.</font></d=
iv>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">***********************************************=
***********************</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Overflow (Will be presented if time permits.)</=
font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">***********************************************=
***********************</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">xx. - None currently</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">***********************************************=
***********************</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">REMOTE INFORMATION FOR THE PALS SESSION(S)</fon=
t></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">***********************************************=
***********************</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Remote Participation Info:&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/remote-participa=
tion.html</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">- No WebEx</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">- Audio and Jabber are TBD</font></div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"=
>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:06 PM, David Sinicrope=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">david=
.sinicrope@ericsson.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hi All,<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Time to =
request presentation slots for IETF 91. &nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"col=
or: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">If yo=
u need a presentation slot for the IETF 91 PALS session, please
<b>reply to this email </b>(subject intact) completing the form below. &nbs=
p;<u></u><u></u></span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Ari=
al, sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;">&nbsp;I</span>f L2VPNers aren't sure if=
 their drafts will be addressed in PALS or BESS,
 they can send in a request, and slot requests that belong to BESS will be =
forwarded with a copy to the requester. &nbsp;(See Andy=92s email below.)</=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Times New Rom=
an',serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial;font-size:medium"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Times New Rom=
an',serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial;font-size:medium">Please use this form and=
 please reply to this email.</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:11.25pt">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- topic =
(e.g.,&nbsp;<span>MPLS and Ethernet OAM Interworking):<u></u><u></u></span>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- draft =
URL (e.g.,&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-=
mpls-eth-oam-iwk/" style=3D"color:purple" target=3D"_blank">http://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk/</a>):
 &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- brief =
statement of objectives and issues that need to be discussed and resolved v=
ia the presentation during the meeting &nbsp;(e.g., need to address securit=
y issues and get direction from the WG):
 &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- reques=
ted duration (norm is 10 min): &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">- speake=
r Given-name FAMILY-NAME (e.g., Dave SINICROPE): &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Thanks!<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dave</sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;border-width:1pt medium me=
dium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(=
181,196,223)">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From:&nbsp;</span>Andrew Malis &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date:&nbsp;</span>Friday, October 17, 2014=
 at 3:25 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:&nbsp;</span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pa=
ls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:pals@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">pals@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:&nbsp;</span>&quot;IETF.PWE3&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:pwe3@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">pwe3@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &=
quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">l2vpn@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;,
 Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stbryant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>stbryant@cisco.com</a>&gt;, David A Sinicrope &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.=
sinicrope@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">david.sinicrope@ericsson.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:&nbsp;</span>PALS WG on its way ..=
..<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">If you haven't been following Adrian's recent emails, the =
expectation is that PALS will be officially formed as a new WG in two weeks=
, and will meet in Honolulu in the agenda spot currently reserved for L2VPN=
, Wednesday at 13:00. Our WG Secretary,
 David Sinicrope, will be issuing a call for agenda items. For those of you=
 that were planning to present at PWE3, you'll be presenting at PALS instea=
d. For those of you that were planning to present at L2VPN, you may be pres=
enting at PALS or at BESS, the latter
 primarily for EVPN-related drafts. Let Stewart or me know if you have any =
questions.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We would also like to start using the PALS WG email list going forward=
. My understanding is that if you were on the PWE3 list, you've been auto-s=
ubscribed to the PALS list. If you were on the L2VPN list but not on the PW=
E3 list, you have to sign up for
 the PALS list on your own. The relevant information for the list is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">List =
address:&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target=3D"_blank">pals@ietf.org</a><br sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Archive:&n=
bsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target=3D"_blank">http://www.i=
etf.org/mail-archive/web/pals/</a><br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif=
;font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">To subscri=
be:&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals</a><br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-=
serif;font-size:13px">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D0783C46157559davidsinicropeericssoncom_--


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Subject: [Pals] Fwd: AD statement on development of IETF-standard routing-related YANG models
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WG,

FYI.

Cheers,
Andy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:57 AM
Subject: AD statement on development of IETF-standard routing-related YANG
models
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>, "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" <
Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org>, "routing-discussion@ietf.org" <
routing-discussion@ietf.org>


Development of standardized YANG models has seriously increased this year.
Of course, this is a good problem to have. There are close to 30 different
drafts related to YANG models for routing; coordination between these
drafts is necessary.  NETMOD is also hard at work on a backwards-compatible
YANG 1.1.  From the IETF's experience with developing MIBs, it was critical
to have the domain-area experts involved in writing and reviewing MIBs and
we believe that it is similarly critical to situate the work on YANG models
in the working groups where the appropriate domain-experts can be easily
found.  Actively encouraging and cultivating the review of those with the
expertise in modeling with YANG and deep understanding of its features is
also critical to the success of standardized YANG models.  This expertise
is found in the NETMOD working group and among the YANG doctors (
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/yang-doctors.html).

We, as the Routing and Ops and Management Area Directors, would like to see
work proceed as follows.

1) The mailing list, rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, has been created to
coordinate among the different routing YANG models and drafts.  For
instance, there may be common groupings to be defined, interactions between
models to be determined, and so on.  To facilitate this coordination work,
we are developing a job description for a secretary for the mailing list
and hope to appoint someone to that role.

2) Routing-related YANG models must be targeted for adoption at the
appropriate WGs in the Routing Area.  If the appropriate WG is unclear,
please bring the question to the RTGWG and the rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org mailing
list.  RTGWG can either direct where the work goes or, if there is no
appropriate other WG, make a decision about adopting the draft.

3) The NETMOD charter has been open to accept work item that don't fall
under the responsibility of an existing WGs:

The NETMOD WG may also develop any additional data models written in YANG
that the WG considers core building blocks and that do not fall under the
charters of other active IETF working groups. The NETMOD WG may simply add
such milestones as it sees fit, with the advice and consent of the
responsible AD.

In case of routing-related YANG models, even if there are no responsible
existing WG, it's expected that the standardization happens in the RTGWG.

4) It is common and expected that sometimes work needs to be discussed in
multiple WGs, even though it is only adopted in one.  Examples would
include NETMOD discussing a model for OSPF to consider how it relates to
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg, RTGWG discussing
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg to encourage review and discussion about its
use as a base for routing-related models, etc.

5) We have heard a strong desire from the community to rapidly encourage
development of standardized YANG models.  Towards that end, we expect and
encourage more and frequent virtual interims (some probably joint between
WGs).  To have such a pace work well, we need authors, reviewers, and
contributors to expect to spend time on this work on an on-going basis.

6) Since many YANG doctors also participate in NETMOD and since NETMOD is
having weekly virtual interims, it may prove convenient to provide feedback
on YANG models in this forum.  When done so, to ensure the interested
parties are aware of the relevant models to be discussed and can arrange
their schedules to call in, the agenda should be forwarded with at least a
week's to the rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org and to the relevant WGs. When the
virtual interim is used to provide YANG doctor feedback, preference should
be given to drafts already adopted by a WG; discussing one model does not
imply partiality or a request to the WG appropriate to consider adopting
the draft.

7) To provide a common location to find proposed YANG models and be able to
verify their accuracy, Tom Nadeau, one of the NETMOD chairs, has set up a
GitHub repository at: https://github.com/YangModels/yang.  All work
contributed to it is subject to the IETF Contributions policy, as
summarized via the very very familiar IETF Note Well.
8) For the second IETF meeting in a row, a "YANG Advice and Editing
Session" (http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html) is
organized on the Sunday before the IETF meeting. This is your chance to sit
down with a YANG doctor and to get feedback on your YANG module.

If you have any questions, please let us know.

Regards,
Alia, Benoit, Adrian, & Joel

_______________________________________________
routing-discussion mailing list
routing-discussion@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion

--047d7b673fb6d2e0480506b613bc
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">WG,<div><br></div><div>FYI.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheer=
s,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwa=
rded message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Alia Atlas</=
b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:57 AM<br>Subject: AD st=
atement on development of IETF-standard routing-related YANG models<br>To: =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org">Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org">Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;=
<a href=3D"mailto:routing-discussion@ietf.org">routing-discussion@ietf.org<=
/a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:routing-discussion@ietf.org">routing-discus=
sion@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"font-size:13px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" styl=
e=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#000000">Development of st=
andardized YANG models has seriously increased this year.=C2=A0 Of course, =
this is a good problem to have. There are close to 30 different drafts rela=
ted to YANG models for routing; coordination between these drafts is necess=
ary.=C2=A0 NETMOD is also hard at work on a backwards-compatible YANG 1.1.=
=C2=A0 From the IETF&#39;s experience with developing MIBs, it was critical=
 to have the domain-area experts involved in writing and reviewing MIBs and=
 we believe that it is similarly critical to situate the work on YANG model=
s in the working groups where the appropriate domain-experts can be easily =
found.=C2=A0 Actively encouraging and cultivating the review of those with =
the expertise in modeling with YANG and deep understanding of its features =
is also critical to the success of standardized YANG models.=C2=A0 This exp=
ertise is found in the NETMOD working group and among the YANG doctors (<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/yang-doctors.html" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/yang-doctors.html</a>).</font=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-size:13px"><font face=3D"ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" col=
or=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><span><font color=3D"#000000">We, a=
s the Routing and Ops and Management Area Directors, would like to see work=
 proceed as follows.</font><br><br></span>1) The mailing list,=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"mailto:rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-yang-coord@ietf.o=
rg</a>, has been created to coordinate among the different routing YANG mod=
els and drafts.=C2=A0 For instance, there may be common groupings to be def=
ined, interactions between models to be determined, and so on.=C2=A0 To fac=
ilitate this coordination work, we are developing a job description for a s=
ecretary for the mailing list and hope to appoint someone to that role.<br>=
</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-size:13px"><font face=
=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255=
)" color=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=
=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:13px;background-color:=
rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><span><font color=3D"#000000">2) Routin=
g-related YANG models must be targeted for adoption at the appropriate WGs =
in the Routing Area.=C2=A0 If the appropriate WG is unclear, please bring t=
he question to the RTGWG and the=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-yang-coord@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org</a>=C2=A0mailing list.=C2=
=A0 RTGWG can either direct where the work goes or, if there is no appropri=
ate other WG, make a decision about adopting the draft.</font><br><br></spa=
n>3)=C2=A0The NETMOD charter has been open to accept work item that don&#39=
;t fall under the responsibility of an existing WGs:<span><br><blockquote><=
font color=3D"#000000">The NETMOD WG may also develop any additional data m=
odels written in YANG that the WG considers core building blocks and that d=
o not fall under the charters of other active IETF working groups. The NETM=
OD WG may simply add such milestones as it sees fit, with the advice and co=
nsent of the responsible AD.</font><br></blockquote><font color=3D"#000000"=
>In case of routing-related YANG models, even if there are no responsible e=
xisting WG, it&#39;s expected that the standardization happens in the RTGWG=
.<br><br></font></span></font>4) It is common and expected that sometimes w=
ork needs to be discussed in multiple WGs, even though it is only adopted i=
n one.=C2=A0 Examples would include NETMOD discussing a model for OSPF to c=
onsider how it relates to draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg, RTGWG discussing d=
raft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg to encourage review and discussion about its u=
se as a base for routing-related models, etc. =C2=A0<br><br>5) We have hear=
d a strong desire from the community to rapidly encourage development of st=
andardized YANG models.=C2=A0 Towards that end, we expect and encourage mor=
e and frequent virtual interims (some probably joint between WGs).=C2=A0 To=
 have such a pace work well, we need authors, reviewers, and contributors t=
o expect to spend time on this work on an on-going basis.<font face=3D"aria=
l, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,=
255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"font-size:13px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"=
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-size:13px"><font face=3D"arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#00000=
0">6) Since many YANG doctors also participate in NETMOD and since NETMOD i=
s having weekly virtual interims, it may prove convenient to provide feedba=
ck on YANG models in this forum.=C2=A0 When done so, to ensure the interest=
ed parties are aware of the relevant models to be discussed and can arrange=
 their schedules to call in, the agenda should be forwarded with at least a=
 week&#39;s to the=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org</a>=C2=A0and to the relevant WGs. When =
the virtual interim is used to provide YANG doctor feedback, preference sho=
uld be given to drafts already adopted by a WG; discussing one model does n=
ot imply partiality or a request to the WG appropriate to consider adopting=
 the draft.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-size:13px"=
><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:rgb(=
255,255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><br>7) To provide a common location to find=
 proposed YANG models and be able to verify their accuracy, Tom Nadeau, one=
 of the NETMOD chairs, has set up a GitHub repository at:=C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
ttps://github.com/YangModels/yang" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/Yan=
gModels/yang</a>.=C2=A0 All work contributed to it is subject to the IETF C=
ontributions policy, as summarized via the very very familiar IETF Note Wel=
l.</font><div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><img src=3D"https://ssl.g=
static.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></font></div></div><div><f=
ont face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255=
,255,255)" color=3D"#000000"><span><font color=3D"#000000">8) For the secon=
d IETF meeting in a row, a &quot;YANG Advice and Editing Session&quot; </fo=
nt>(<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.htm=
l</a>)<font color=3D"#000000"> is organized on the Sunday before the IETF m=
eeting. This is your chance to sit down with a YANG doctor and to get feedb=
ack on your YANG module.</font><br><br></span><span><font color=3D"#000000"=
>If you have any questions, please let us know.<br><br>Regards,<br><div>Ali=
a, Benoit, Adrian, &amp; Joel</div></font></span></font></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
routing-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:routing-discussion@ietf.org">routing-discussion@ietf.org<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion</a><br=
>
<br></div><br></div></div>

--047d7b673fb6d2e0480506b613bc--


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Subject: [Pals] WG Action: Formed Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services (pals)
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A new IETF working group has been formed in the Routing Area. For
additional information please contact the Area Directors or the WG
Chairs.

Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services (pals)
------------------------------------------------
Current Status: Proposed WG

Chairs:
  Andy Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>
  Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>

Secretaries:
  David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>

Assigned Area Director:
  Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>

Mailing list
  Address: pals@ietf.org
  To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals
  Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pals

Charter:

Many services that run in the Internet are facilitated in MPLS networks
by the Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) and/or are established over
pseudowires that emulate point-to-point or point-to-multipoint links and
provide communication connectivity that is perceived by its users as an
unshared link or circuit of an emulated Layer-1, Layer-2, or Layer-3 
service type.

Layer-2 Virtual Private Networks (L2VPNs) are one such service that 
provides an emulation of a "native" service over a packet switched
network that is adequately faithful to, but may not be entirely 
indistinguishable from, the native service itself. 

The Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services (PALS) working group is
chartered to define, specify, and extend network services based on
pseudowires and/or signaled using LDP.

In particular, the working group will work on the following services:

- All types of MPLS-based and L2TPv3-based pseudowire services
  including point-to-point and point-to-multipoint pseudowires, single
  segment and multi-segment pseudowires, single and multi-domain
  pseudowires, and signaled and statically provisioned pseudowires.

- All types of dynamic or static provider-provisioned L2VPNs that
  operate over pseudowires or that are enabled over MPLS networks
  using LDP as a control plane mechanism.

- IP-only L2VPN solutions (for IP-only services over a packet switched
  network).

The working group may also suggest new services to be supported by LDP
or pseudowires and these may be added to the working group charter
subject to re-chartering. The working group is also responsible for the
maintenance and development of pseudowires formerly carried out by the
PWE3 working group

The PALS working group will not define any mechanisms that exert control
over the underlying packet switched network. When necessary it may, 
however, recommend or require the use of existing QoS and path control
mechanisms between the edge nodes that provide the connectivity to the
services.

The working group may work on:

- New pseudowire encapsulations or types for services emulated over 
  IETF-specified Packet Switched Networks.

- Operations, Administration, and Management (OAM) for pseudowires 
  including interworking of OAM for pseudowires and native services, and
  OAM for other services worked on by PALS (including L2VPNs). But new 
  techniques should be shared with the BFD and MPLS working groups to 
  ensure consistency with existing OAM techniques, and with the LIME 
  working group to provide for consistency of operation.

- Protocol extensions for LDP in support of new pseudowire function
  and new services, but all protocol extensions must be reviewed by the
  MPLS working group which is responsible for the consistency and
  stability of LDP.

- Mechanisms to enhance pseudowire and L2VPN functionality by 
  including security, protection and restoration, congestion avoidance,
  and load balancing across parallel packet switched tunnels.

- Mechanisms to permit optimization of multicast data traffic within an
  L2VPN.

- Enhancements to increase the scalability of the control plane and data
  plane of L2VPN solutions and application of L2VPN solutions in the 
  data center, the latter in coordination with the NVO3 working group

- L2VPN discovery and membership mechanisms that utilize pseudowire
  control and management procedures.

- Data models for modeling, managing, and operating the services worked
  on by the PALS working group using SMI or YANG.

The PALS working group will not work on L2VPNs enabled using BGP, and
where L2VPNs that are within the scope of the PALS working group use
BGP to add functionality (for example for discovery of membership of a
VPN) this work will be coordinated with the BESS working group. This
also includes work on particular types of L2VPNs that support both LDP
and BGP signaling, such as VPLS. Any contention between these working
groups on the placement of such work will be resolved by the chairs.

The PALS working group will coordinate closely with the MPLS working
group for all work involving LDP and the MPLS data plane. It will also
coordinate with the MPLS working group in developing shared security,
and with the BFD and MPLS working groups on OAM solutions.

Where extensions to pseudowires are needed to support time or frequency
transfer, this work will be done by the PALS working group in 
consultation with the TICTOC working group.

L2TP specifics of L2TPv3-based pseudowires will continue to be the
responsibility of the L2TPEXT working group.



Milestones:
  Dec 2014 - Submit PW Congestion Considerations to the IESG
  Dec 2014 - Submit STP Application of ICCP to the IESG
  Jun 2015 - Submit PW Endpoint Fast Failure Protection to the IESG
  Jun 2015 - Submit MPLS-TP PW OAM Configuration to the IESG
  Jun 2015 - Submit LDP extensions for PW Binding to LSP Tunnels to the
IESG
  Jun 2015 - Submit Pseudowire Redundancy on S-PE to the IESG
  Jun 2015 - Submit Unified Control Channel for PWs to the IESG
  Jun 2015 - Submit LDP-VPLS for Ethernet Broadcast and Multicast to the
IESG
  Dec 2015 - Submit P2MP PW Signaling (root initiated) to the IESG
  Dec 2015 - Submit MPLS LSP PW status refresh reduction for Static PWs
to the IESG
  Dec 2015 - Submit MAC Address Withdrawal over Static Pseudowire to the
IESG
  Dec 2015 - Submit PIM Snooping over VPLS to the IESG
  Dec 2015 - Submit E-Tree Support in VPLS to the IESG jointly with the
BESS WG
  Jun 2016 - Submit L2VPN applicability statement for data center
applications to the IESG
  Jun 2016 - Submit S-PE resilience for statically provisioned MS-PWs to
the IESG
  Dec 2016 - Submit YANG data model for SS-PWs and MS-PWs to the IESG
  Dec 2016 - Submit YANG data model for LDP VPLS to the IESG